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dd361f31-09b3-4c92-8b08-ae8c0155973c | Selects: How Champagne Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/selects-how-champagne-works | Sure we can all agree that champagne is probably the greatest thing humans have or ever will invent, but how much do we understand how it's made? Learn all about it in this classic episode.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | Sure we can all agree that champagne is probably the greatest thing humans have or ever will invent, but how much do we understand how it's made? Learn all about it in this classic episode.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | Sat, 07 May 2022 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2022, tm_mon=5, tm_mday=7, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=127, tm_isdst=0) | 57392734 | audio/mpeg | "Hey everyone, it's Josh. And for this week's select, I've chosen our 2017 episode how Champagne works. It's a charming little episode that fair warning, will almost certainly make you want a glass of champagne. Unless you're shocked. Talk. Though I suspect he secretly did too. Enjoy. Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio. Hi and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. Pierre Clark. There's Charles Jacques Bryant. Okay. Jerry jelly. Oh, nice. Roland, are we allowed to tell everyone your last name? Jerry, we've done it before. Okay. What if they go trying to find her on Facebook and find out she doesn't actually exist. It's all just a plant fake Facebook page that we've created. I know that she is an actual plant. Right. That cross in the corner. Feed me. I am worried about this one. I'm just going to go ahead and say it. Oh, why you were worried about the wine one? For the same reasons we didn't do the wine one. I know it's exactly why. Exactly for those reasons. Totally fine, man. No one knows anything about champagne. People spend lifetimes learning this stuff. Yes, but we have a show and everyone knows that. We don't spend a lifetime learning about what we talk about. That we just do our research and we try to find the most interesting stuff to explain how something works. I know, but these anytime is something where someone is like such a huge like where such a big thing for so many people. Right. I just know we're going to mess up pronunciation in French. So champagne, right? Champagne. I think it's a Bugs Bunny always pronounced it. Oh, yeah. So you're following a grand tradition. I didn't know he was a drinker. Well, we are going to talk about champagne. It's a little late now. Do you like champagne? I love champagne. Oh, okay. Love it. I don't. I mainly drink sparkling wine. I don't really drink champagne itself, but buddy, this article made me want to drink some champagne. Well, you do a little Prosecco or Cava? Sure. I don't really discriminate. Okay, I do. I don't drink any of it. You don't like champagne, huh? No, I don't like sparkling wine. It's not for chuck, as they say. I got you. I love what they say. I love it, man. I particularly love Shandong out in California. I will say one time at a party though many years ago, like in the drank a lot of just champagne. Only champagne. This might be why you don't like champagne. The only time in my life. No, actually I felt like a twelve year old girl. That was wonderful. Oh, that's your problem. No, champagne is no, I mean silly and I see bubbly and fun. Like I played hopscotch and stuff like that. Yes, I know. That's terrible. Why would you ever want to do that again? I don't mean I felt like a girl because I was drinking champagne. That's what I thought you meant. Well, there's your problem. Champagne is not a girly drink. No, I'm sure there's plenty of people out there who do think that, buddy, I will drink pink champagne with your finger up at a bullfight. Oh, gross. Yeah. You got to do something to wash the pain away. Yeah, it's just not for me. And that gave me such a bad headache the next day, I didn't go back to the well, if someone wants to toast me, I won't go, no, I'm not drinking that. Well, you were probably drinking pretty sweet champagne, weren't you? The higher the sugar content and anything, the more of a hangover you're going to have. Yes. I don't know. Well, I love it. Good. You mean I've been to Shandon twice. Went on Shandon Cruz once. Wow. Big fans of Shandon. Where is that? Hint? It's out in Napa Valley. It's famously attached to Moette and shandon. And then Shandon went and said, hey, we're going to open up something in California, too. Got you. Cool. Because their terroir is heavy. Beat. Good terroir. And that's another thing, too. This is what I'm nervous about. I'm not nervous about getting it wrong. I'm nervous about coming across like just a complete jackass. Sophisticated. I'm not at all. I just like champagne. I know more now about champagne doing this research for the last couple of days than I ever had before, so I definitely don't put myself out there as, like, an expert in any way, shape or form. All right, so that's called everybody put your emails away. Ten minutes of caveats by Josh and Chuck. See, that was French, and you pronounced it great. Kavit said Latin. All right, well, I guess if you don't know anything about champagne, you might have noticed that we already said both the word champagne and sparkling wine. And I think most people probably know this, but some people may not. Champagne is a region in France. Technically, you are only supposed to say champagne for sparkling wine if it comes from that region. Right. So all champagne that's sparkling wine is sparkling wine, but all sparkling wine is not champagne. That's right. I think that simplified in champagne itself, the region is about hour and a half, 90 minutes or so northeast of Paris or east. And this article points out that it's one of the least visited regions of France. But I bet they have a fair amount of enthusiasts that go to regions. Sure, but maybe just not as many. I don't know. It's the south of France or other Burgundy, maybe. Right, well, Burgundy comes to mind for sure. Apparently. Shebli I didn't realize that that was a wine growing region, did you? I don't think I did. In the very famous mad dog region. Right? Lunettron. So silly. So champagne is a region? It's also a sparkling wine. But yes, like you said, you can't make sparkling wine outside of this champagne region, and you can even make sparkling wine inside of the champagne region. And unless you're following a very strictly controlled process within this particular region of France, you are not allowed anywhere in the world to call your sparkling wine champagne. It's what's called an appelletian. No, that's a mountain range. It's what's called an Appalachian Trail appellation control, or AOC is what we're going to call it. But it's basically the same thing with bourbon here in the United States, right? Yeah. Where you have to follow specific rules and you have to make it within a specific region. And the whole point is, you don't want just any schmo making something that's similar to your product, but not nearly as good. That's not going through anywhere near the painstaking amount of process and labor that you're doing and still call it the same thing you're calling it. You don't want to do that. Yes. You have to restrict it. Especially the French. They're not going to be all Willy and Illy about that. That's their region. Yeah. Apparently there's something like 84,000 acres, which I don't think is a lot. And what are those cities? The two main cities are REM and Eperney. But we even have a thing in here that says if you say REM, then you're an American city slicker. If you say Reims okay, REM. I've seen plenty wrongs, is what they say in the help me out article that we got. I think you just earned some fans in France with that one. Well, by any other name, it is still champagne. And those are the cities. And there are but three grapes that you can use to make champagne. You can't just say, oh, that muscatine looks nice. What do they do here in Georgia? Right. Throw it in a bottle and firm in it. Yeah. Pete, put this in your mouth, chew it, spit it up in the bottle. There are three grapes, and they are the Pinot Noir grape, the Chardonnay grape. And how do you pronounce that last one? Pinot Monie. Okay. Which is another dark grape or red grape or black grape, I think is what they call it. Yes. If you ever talk to a real wine person and you don't know the lingo, you're going to be confused quick when they say things like black grapes. Right. You'd be like, what the heck is a black grape? But if you dig into it, you start to find that there's a lot of overlap in words. There's a lot of multiple terms that describe the same thing. Yeah. Black grape, red grape, same thing. Purple grape. Why not? If you say that, you're going to get laughed out of napa. I like the purple grape. Concord, I think, is what they're calling. But Chardonnay, of those three, is the only all white grape. And a lot of people might not know this. It's the same with still wine, but inside that black skin is white pulp. Yes. Depending on when you pick the grape. Yes. So if you pick it early, before it has a chance to turn reddish, you can conceivably squeeze clear or white grape juice from red or black grapes. That's right. And that's what's happening in the case of Champagne. Yeah. Because if you look at it, you're like, well, I mean, this is clear. How is this made from red grapes? Well, as we'll see later on, you have Dawn Perignon to think, well, we should go ahead and talk about that, I guess. Well, let's talk about Champagne a little bit first, and then we'll get to Dawn Perignon. So the region itself is pretty ancient. The first vineyards in Champagne were planted by the Romans, who also mine chalk in the area. And there's extensive chalk quarries that are underground that have served as Champagne sellers for generations. So the place has been making wine the region has been making wine for millennia, but it wasn't until about the 16 1700 when they really kind of took what was a naturally occurring problem, which is carbonation happening in their wine, and went to town with it. They said, if you can't beat them, join them. So they took this thing that was viewed as a flaw in their wine, carbonation, sparkling wine, and they figured out how to make it even more so and made it its own thing. Yeah. And in that region, that chalk is very key to what you end up getting, because it's very reflective, because it's white. It is. So it reflects the sunlight from the ground back up to the leaves. Right. Yeah. It's a very unique region. And apparently, if you stumbled upon that region today in our advanced wine making techniques and sparkling wine techniques, you probably wouldn't say, hey, this is a great place to have a vineyard. Right. You go. Sakura blue. The soil is terrible. Well, you might, because I think it's a little tougher to grow. Like, it's a very fine line between getting a successful harvest in that region, which makes it, I think, very special. Yeah, it does. Apparently, they have cold, short, wet, growing seasons, and apparently that's where the original sparkling wine and Champagne came from. It was a freak of natural climate and natural conditions. Growing conditions. Right, yeah. Because as we'll see, a second fermentation is what creates the carbonation. And that would happen naturally because they would harvest the wine, make wine, store it, and then it would get cold all of a sudden, like early, before the fermentation process was done. So fermentation would basically stop, but then there'd be a lot of sugar and yeast left in their wine that hadn't fermented when they started it. So when spring came around again and things started to warm up, a second fermentation process started, and that's really what kicked off the bubbles. Yeah. But for a long time, the people in Champagne, in the Champagne region were tearing their hair out because they didn't want this. It was a sign that their wine was terrible or poorly made. And like I said, it wasn't until Don Peronyong came along who didn't like it himself, but was one of the people who created a lot of the techniques that helped establish champagne as the sparkling wine capital of the world. So he didn't care for it? No. He called it mad wine, I think is what he called. He was a monk, though, right? Yeah, he was a Benedictine monk in the area. He was the seller master, which is, if you are a seller master, you are in charge as far as champagne goes with basically making the master blend of the champagne. Are you talking about the covet? Yes, the CuveT. And when you put it together, that's the assemblage, right? That's right. So Don Perignon was the guy in charge of that for this abbey? He was a monk. His name was Pierre Perignon. Dom is like, denotes you're a monk. Benedictine monk. And he was one of the ones who established a lot of the groundwork for creating sparkling wine. Creating champagne. Very interesting. Like, up to that point, you would have sparkling wines in your seller, but they were using wood and hemp to stop these bottles. Well, that didn't work all that well. Bottles were very frequently explode, and sellers were very dangerous places to be because one of these stoppers came out, it shoot across the room, hit another bottle, and that bottle stopper would come out, and all of a sudden, you have a chain reaction of these wooden stoppers, like flying at your head like a Bug Money cartoon. Yeah. Three Stooges or something. Right. So Don Perignon came up with the idea of using corkstoppers in thicker English type bottles that could withstand the pressure, holding them down with little rope. Muzzles. Now we use foil and wire. Yes. What's that called? A muzzle. Yes, muzzle. There's a French word for it, but I can't find it. My notes, something like that. So he came up with a bunch of stuff. He also was the first one to start blending wines from the region. And as we'll talk about in a few, that's the basis of champagne. It's a blend. Champagne is a blend of wine. That's right. Should we take a break, collect ourselves? Yeah. I'm getting excited. Don't you want some champagne? Nope. Really? No. I mean, if you opened a bottle of champagne in here I would drink a flute. Yeah, because it's rude when you're offered something to turn your nose about it. Right. Unless you're under 21 and b. It might help me to relax a little bit. It really would. About this thing, you'd feel great. Should we talk a little bit about the champagne method? Yes. What the French call la method. Okay. La method. Champagne. If they close your system. This is one reason why champagne is a bit more expensive or can be a bit more expensive is because there's a lot of processes involved and not like there's not with still wine. But champagne kind of takes it a step further. It's time consuming, and there are people's hands and feet involved a lot of times. Yeah. And like you said, it starts with making wine. Actually, it starts even further back than that. It starts with growing the grate. That's right. But fermentation. All wines are fermented, of course. And that's when sugar breaks down from the grape juice, turns it into alcohol. Delicious, delicious alcohol. And that is called wine. And just like regular wine, still wine, like you said, I guess we shouldn't call it regular wine. Just still wine. Still wine. Basic wine, they start with those grapes. And in the case of champagne, they are pressed with human feet, which still happens. Right. And I can't help but think of that video still after all these years. That poor lady of that poor lady, yeah. Who was at Chateau Elan. Right. Is that in Georgia? Yes. I don't think I knew that it was Georgia. Like morning show atlanta morning. So I think it was like, Fox Live or something like that. I can still hear it. I haven't seen it in years. But if you don't know what we're talking about there was one of the early viral videos of this woman location doing a story about wine in Georgia. And she was stomping on the wine on a platform for some reason. Yeah. And she fell out of the barrel and hurt herself. But it sounded like she was in very much heavy distress. Like new dimensions of pain are the sounds that the woman made. I've never heard anything like it before since. Me, neither. Yeah. I'm very sure she's okay. Yeah. That's why I don't mind talking about it now. Not like she was maimed for life or anything like that. I was thinking I love Lucy, too. Yeah. That very famous grape stomping where she gets in, like, a grape throwing fight with the Lady Lucy. She was always getting into trouble, wasn't she? I shot in the studio where they filmed that show one time in California, right there in Hollywood. Yeah. It was kind of neat. One of the grips just came over. He was like, this is the I Love Lucy studio. And you went, I smelled the grapes. All right, so where were we? Feet. Feet. Which is this wonderful old world technique that I didn't know this. I didn't know that you have to do that for champagne. Is it just because it's so delicate? Yes, I think that's part of it. But also they kind of shy away from machinery. And the method champagne was really yes, it's a traditional method. Even though if you look back at the history of winemaking, champagne is very relatively new. Like, we're talking 1617 hundreds. Right. They've been making wine for many thousands of years. Right. So this is a fairly new invention, but it was still invented at a time where you mainly used human labor for things like this. So yeah, they've tended to preserve that as much as possible. All right, well, you've got your juice, your white juice, and well, they put it in stainless steel vats, unless you're super old world, I guess some people do use wood still, but yeah, you're allowed to use for the initial fermentation, where you're like, you're just making the basic wine. You can use stainless steel. Yeah. So there it sits for a long time, ferments becomes still wine, and like we said, this is just the first fermentation. And then you move on to the blending, which is where that all important seller master comes in. Right. So if you're a seller master for a champagne house, unless you're a very specific type of champagne house, where you actually make champagne, from growing the grapes to the finished products, right. You are probably going around the champagne region trying different champagne or trying different wines, still wines, and you're coming up within your head a blend of all these different wines. And that blend, as we said before, is called the CuveT. And the Cuve, it's just that it's a blend of wine, and it has mainly three different factors involved that you have to take into consideration if you're the seller master. Right? Yes. If it's a vintage covet, a vintage blend of wines, then that means it's using grapes that were all grown in the same year, same growing season. Yeah. And I imagine these seller masters I mean, you said they're tasting things. I'm sure they are, but I imagine the cellar masters in champagne also kind of know exactly where they're going to go for most of these. Sure. And they also would know, like, well, if you guys have 2007 vintage wine, like, that was a great year, or that year was kind of rough, it might take at a neat edge to some other 2009 grapes I'm using, too. Right. These are what these people are walking around with in their heads, that level of information. So they're putting it all together. They come up with these clever little blends, and each blend is a Cuva. Again, one of the things they can take into account is the vintage, the years. Yeah. Like you said, if it's a vintage wine, it's just from the one year growing season. If it's non vintage, that means you're combining various years. Right. And typically, vintage wines, I think, tend to be more expensive. I get the impression that they tend to be a little more revered. They definitely take longer to mature. Yeah. The fermentation process is longer than the non vintage. And you'll see this on the label. It'll say vintage, or else it'll say envy a lot of times. Right. Two other things for a seller master to take into account are the varietals and the crew. Right? Yeah. Or the cr u E with an UMLA over the U rockey. Yes. The crew, it's a vineyard, basically. So you can have grapes all from one vineyard from different years and different varieties, and that'd still be what's called a single crew. Or you could mix different crews, different vineyards, grapes to create a couuve. Yeah. And the grand crew, you might have seen that before on a bottle. If you get the Grand Cruz status, then you're really cooking with gas, as my dad used to say, in the mid 1980s. Well, initially there were only twelve villages that had that Grand Cruz status. And then in 1985, they expanded that to 17, because five more villages, and I'm not going to try and pronounce all those added to the list. And it says here that less than 9% is incredibly low. Of all the vineyard, land in Champagne has a 100% grand Cruting. Right. So, again, 84,000 acres. Only 9% of that is the top rated. Basically, it's saying this land is the primo land for growing Champagne grapes. So if you get grapes that are grown there by these people who really know what they're doing, you're going to pay through the nose for it. Sure. So a Grand Crue Champagne is going to be pretty expensive, but there's a reason behind it. Yeah. It's not just marketing. No. And variety, too. Like you said, there's three grapes. Right. Just those three. And depending on how you put them together, you can come up with a type of Cuva as well. Right. So Blanc de Blanc means white of whites that's made just with chardonnay grapes. Blanc de Noir is made with just one of the other black grapes, either the Pinot Mounier or the Pinot Noir. That's right. But all those three things are factored together to create a specific kuve. Well, and then you've got your rose that you mentioned earlier, your pink wine, or as my friend Stacey calls it, pink crack. It's good stuff. She gets a hold of that stuff. Watch out. Yeah. Well, there's a couple of ways you can do this. Sometimes you leave some of the skin for a little bit of time, but these days, more or less, you're going to be adding a little bit of the red wine, pinot Noir, red wine, to the coveted wine. That's different. If you leave the grapes on a little bit, you're going to have pink champagne. If you actually add red wine afterward, you're going to have rose champagne. What's the difference? It says here rose is also known as pink champagne. I know, that's what I'm saying. It gets confusing because you definitely get different things from different sources. But I have seen in multiple places that when you add red wine, that's rose, and that keeping the grapes in is pink champagne. Interesting. But apparently there's something like 3 million bottles of red wine are set aside every year just to make rose champagne. What a waste, man. I'm really changing your mind about champagne. No, you're not. I'm going to emily likes rose. Rose champagne? No, I mean, she'll have that, but just still rose. There's also rose with gas. That's not champagne. It's a little gassy. It's kind of different. Yeah. I'm just not a fan of all that stuff. Yeah, I love it. And it's not like I discriminate against wines either, but I'm definitely prefer champagne or sparkling wines over still wine, like any day of the week. Yeah, we're the opposite in more ways than one. Are we at the Riddler yet? Because this is my favorite part. We've got the blend, and once you blend it, you have to put it in bottles. And one of the things chuck about the AOC, this method, Champagnoise, is once you put in that bottle, it stays in there until the person who buys it and drinks it takes it out. You have to keep it in the same bottle. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Why would you switch bottles? It'd be weird anyway. Well, you used to want to decant it to get sediment out. You might just put it in one bottle to reuse the bottles, who knows? Yeah. But once you put in the bottle, it's got to stay in the bottle. And after that initial QVE is blended, they put it in the bottle and they let it sit. And depending on what kind what kind it is, if it's nonvintage, it's going to sit there for twelve more months, for a total of a minimum of 15. If it's vintage, it's going to sit there for another three years and just age in the bottle. That's right. And so at this point, you want the bubbles. So you're going to start that second fermentation process by adding sugar and yeast. Then you drop the temperature on your cooler to about 50 to 60, which is cooler than the initial fermentation process. You can also do this in the tank. Like, there are different methods, but right. That's called the Charmette method, the tanks. Yeah. But I think the Old World method is well, jeez, you can't use tanks, you got to use bottle. And I don't even think Old World is the right term. It's oldish. I'll just say old. But I think Old World means something very specific with wine. Oh, yeah, I can see that. I think it means non Californian. See, this is where we get in trouble. So this is a very slow fermentation process, the second one, and the yeast is living and dying and those cells are breaking apart. And this really interesting process is going on inside that bottle. Yeah. It's eating up all that sugar that you added in what's called the liquor Taraj. Right. And when you add that in and you add the yeast in, the yeast are like, this is great, we're going to live here for generations. Eons by our time table. Yeah. Like, look at all this delicious sugar that we can eat. And they eat it and eat it, and they eat all of the sugar in this second fermentation process. And what we're doing here now is recreating that natural fluke of a condition where it would get cold and then warm up again. And that second fermentation process would start to make the CO2. Same thing is happening here. But this is a very controlled version of that. Sure. So the use of eating it and like you said, they're dying and breaking open. And so when you're drinking champagne, part of what you're drinking are the internal remnants of yeast cells that have spilled their contents into the champagne. That's why I don't drink it. But they also leave behind some stuff you don't want to drink, which are the cell structures. And that creates what's called sediment. It's basically leftover cellular structure of yeast cells. And you want to get that out. Yeah. And that's through a process called riddling. And I mentioned the Riddler is my favorite person in this process. It's a pretty thankless job to be the Riddler, I think. So I'll bet you get a lot of free champagne. Well, sure, that's thanks. Yeah. But it's very solitary and redundant. Oh, yeah. Repetitive. Yeah. So this Riddler, the wine at this point is stored upside down at a 75 degree angle, and that is allowing all these dead yeast cells to collect down near the neck. They by hand, go in every day and turn these bottles, one 8th of a turn, 20,000, 30,000 bottles I saw up to 40,000 a day. They do this by hand and they're just rotating these. I can't imagine doing this. I mean, it's your life's work. You got to really be dedicated to your craft to be a Riddler. And it takes about four to six weeks of this dedicated attention. It's a very fast process, though, if you've ever seen a Riddler at work. Oh, yeah. But they have to remember that they turn the bottle so they make a little chalk mark on each 140 thousand times in a day. It's amazing. So they're turning the bottle and like you said, it's turned up at an angle. And the whole point of this is that you're slowly because you don't want to disturb the champagne, it's still maturing. Right. But this is towards the end of that maturation phase. Either that twelve month or that 36 month minimum. And as you're turning it, what you're doing is kind of shaking the bottle a little bit, too. And you're just trying to get the yeast cells, what's left of them, to move toward the neck. Right. And the whole point is this is called maturing on the leaves. And the leaves, I think, are what the sediment is called, possibly. Or else what the yeah, I think that's what it is. Okay. I think and as it goes down and accumulates toward the front of the neck, you now have one of. The last steps called gorgemont or discouragement. Yes. And what you have is a thing of sediment. It's accumulated at the neck and you put it in a nice bath. It's really amazing how they do this. Yeah. And what they used to have to do is they would pop open a bottle, decant it, filter it, and they would pour it back so it's filtered, because one of the things you'll note about champagne is it's very clear, undergoes several different clarification steps. But that would have been one of them. This is the same thing, but this one is way cooler. They put the neck in an ice bath, a salt ice bath, so you know it's really cold because salt lowers the freezing point of ice water. Yeah. And at this point, it's going to create a little yeast plug up there toward the neck. And what they have to do then is get that plug out of there while maintaining the integrity of the rest of the wine that's inside. Yeah. You're going to lose some champagne. It's not a perfect procedure. Well, yeah, I mean, that's part of the process is to lose some because then they add stuff back in. Right. Which we'll get to remove. Well, it says in here the cork. But these days, I think that initial one is a cap, like a bottle cap. You can use that overall bottle cap and go on YouTube and look at riddler at work and just check this out. It's pretty neat. Like it's a fast process as well. Did you see how it's made on that? No. They pop it out and a surprisingly small amount comes out. Like I thought they'd be like, oh, God. Oh, jeez. It'd be the most stressful job in the world, but enough comes out. It's foaming over, but it's not like just a tremendous amount. And then they smell it to make sure it's not. The dude I saw put his thumb over it real quick. It wasn't foaming over at all. Maybe that's what I saw. Or maybe that's what he was doing. I didn't catch it. Yeah. Pretty interesting, though. So the riddlers is doing this by hand because there's carbon dioxide gas in there at this point and it forces that plug out. And like you said, you lose just a little bit, then you add maybe a little brandy, a little sugar, a little white wine back in to get the proper amount of liquid inside the bottle. Right. That's called the dosage or the liquor dosage. Don't call it dosage. No, because I did in my head for like, half of this research. Yeah. And then you oh, that is docile. Well, that's when it helps to watch videos. Yeah, for sure. And then they put that final cork in place. This is one that's going to stay in there until you uncork it and they tighten it down with that wire, as our not so great article points out, you can make into a little chair afterward. Yeah, that's what people do. Right, sure. And you have to have that thing on there because there's a lot of pressure still building up in that thing. Right. And they've actually thanks to an 18th century French pharmacist named Antoine Bome, he came up with a device to measure the sugar content and wine. So now they know exactly how much sugar to put into the champagne to raise the pressure back up. We want about five or six atmospheres of pressure, or about, I think, 60 to 70 square or pounds per square inch of pressure in a bottle of wine. How much? 50 to 70, I think, or 50 to 90. But it's definitely five or six atmospheres of pressure. Yeah, I got 90 average. Okay. So they know how much of that liquor dosage to put in, how much sugar to put back in to raise the atmosphere back up. And the other reason you want to do that, too, Chuck, is when you're adding that sugar back in, that yeast ate all the sugar that was in there and turn it into carbon dioxide that you put in for the second fermentation. And when they did, they made the champagne as dry as a bone, an extra brute. So the amount of it's actually more than that. Brute natural. Well, I call it axx brute. It's crazy dry. I've never had it, but I can only imagine. How can you have that? Yeah, really, there's one where they don't put in any dosage, they don't add any sugar afterward, so it's bone dry. And that's just for people who really prefer that, because apparently the extra brute is the least popular. Yeah, I can imagine. And I think the best selling is sort of that brute, which is sort of in the middle of dry and sweet or SEC or demisec. And then I think the last one is do. D-O-U-X is the sweetest of all nonbrute yeah. But brute is drier than extra dry, which is kind of surprising. But if you ever it's pretty easy to pick up. If you just read it once or twice, you're like, okay, that's how it's denoted. But all that is based on how much dosage you put in after you discourage the yeast plug in gorge. Yeah. One of my least favorite words, by the way. That's a bad one. Is this true about Madame Cliquo? From what I saw. Yeah. She was an entrepreneur, famously. In fact, she's called widow at times. She was widowed at a very young age, sadly, at 27, and took over her husband's wine business and supposedly invented that discouraging process herself, which is kind of simple when you look at it. But I wouldn't have thought to do it. No. Again, they were decanting them back then, filtering it out. And this was, I think, 1813, when the widow Clickco came up with it. And about then is when champagne, the drink took off, at least in France, and started to spread very quickly around the world. Yeah, Napoleon had a lot to do with that, right? I think Napoleon did. By World War I, winston Churchill reminded everyone we're not fighting to save just France boys. We're fighting to save champagne. Hurrah. Should we take another break? I think so. All right, we're going to talk a little bit about what the fuss is with this stuff after this. All right. So Josh, the master winemaker, the seller master, has walked us through the process. What a great job that would be. Yeah. My friend Robbie is kind of a rock star winemaker in Napa. Is that right? Yeah, it's pretty great. He's living a good life, I'm sure. In fact, he got in touch at one point because he wanted to start a wine podcast and we sort of email back and forth and just never like he just wanted advice and stuff. Not like he wanted to start one with me because that would be what this podcast call when someone's super expert and then you get a big dummy. I can't think of anything that's what that would have been, man. Just ripe for jokes. I would have been the Thomas Saden church to his Paul Giamatti. Oh, you're talking about sideways. I thought you were talking about wings for a second. I would have been like, when are we going to drink? It tastes good to me. Yeah. And Robbie will be spitting it out. Yeah, I don't think he should do that. He's very talented and he does quite well, like making wine for other people. And he also has his own label, longe Vin and Pearson Meyer Wines. Plug. Plug, yeah. Right. And when you go to his house and stay with him in his awesome guest house, the top of Howell Mountain, you get drunk on like, amazing expensive wines. That's awesome that he opens like you're drinking that Perrier. I'm sorry. Yeah. No, this Pellegrino oh, excuse me. That's the Italian version of perrier. It is. It's like the Prosecco. What's? Spumanti. Spumanti is Italian. Is it? It's sparkling, right? Yeah. I guess Prosecco is Italian as well. I just remember that from when I was a kid. Martini and Rossiyi. It's amazing how it's drilled in my brain, martini and Rossi, which probably is like crap sparkling wine, isn't it? I don't know that it's good. I don't know. I think that's probably what gave you your headache. That and all the low and brow. Yeah. Is that still around? I don't know what Bob and Doug drank. No, they drank some sort of is it made up? No, they drank Molson. Well, was it Lebanon? I mean, it was probably some Canadian beer. We're going to get killed over this. Yeah, we are. Sorry, everybody. Alright, so let's move on then to what makes champagne so expensive and so fancy. There's this notion that you drink it for celebrations or that you're, like, sort of the upper crust of society if you're drinking champagne. Well, supposedly there is an actual reason why champagne is associated with toasting, the big events in life, because for 10 years, from about the 9th century to the 19th century, they had no champagne. The kings of France were coronated in champagne. So it was like a celebration town for the whole country. So toasting with even before they were sparkling wines toasting with champagne, wine was traditional. So have you ever been in a restaurant and, like, gotten good news and said, Waiter, champagne? Has anyone ever done that besides in movies, maybe? Yeah, it's funny. Like, I was watching McConaughey act, and I was watching a movie on somebody else's seat back on a flight, so I wasn't hearing it, so I was really just watching the movie. Right. And I was like, imagine if you were in real life around Matthew McConaughey, like, in a room with one of his characters and just how off putting and bizarre that experience would be, because he just choose the scenery, and everything he does is just so big. In real life, if you were interacting with that character, you'd be like, calm down, man. You're freaking me out. Well, Wooderson was pretty chill. Yeah, okay. But everybody since Woodterson pretty much all right. Boy, that's an interesting thing to think on. A plane just hit me. It hit me on the plane. I think if I was in a restaurant and something great happened, I would say, Waiter, another gin and tonic. And they would go, huh? They'd probably say, you got it. Actually, I started calling those lime salads at my house. Nice. You're on the gin and tonic now? Yeah. That usually happens around April. Oh, yeah. April to September. I got one for you. Gin and bitter lemon is a nice combo. And I thought, bitter lemon is just like a fever tree drink. They make them. They make a good one. But everybody from Canada dry to whoever else makes bitter lemon as well. So get yourself a good bitter lemon. And some gin would definitely do a podcast on gin at some point. Okay. Very interesting liquor. Yeah. Complex. Can be sure. I got another one for you with that bitter lemon. If you want to get really fancy, get some St. George terroir. Yes. I'm not a fan. You had the dry rye. You tried the terroir one. Yes. The one that tastes like feet? No, that's the dry rye. I've tried all three of those St. George's, and I don't like any of them, okay? I'm a London dry guy. Well, anyway, you'll still like it with bitter lemon. Everyone else would like the terroir St. George with bitter lemon. Everyone else on the planet. All right. And I figured out what was up with the dry rye. You're absolutely right. You can't make a martini out of that stuff. It'd kill you. It's not made for it. It's made for things like negronis. It makes a killer negroni. Yeah, it's really good. Yeah. I stick to my lime salad, you know, me and my basic needs. But try the bitter lemon sometime with gin. Okay. Your dry lemon is fine. All right, okay. But with the bitter lemon instead of tonic. Okay. I'll give it a try. And if I don't like it, then I'm just weird because everyone else in the world loves it. I'm not saying that you said that. All right. Where in the world worry so we were talking about what makes champagne so fancy. Yeah, well, like we said earlier, it's a very small region, comparatively speaking, so that will lend to the price and all these hand processes that they still might use or flip processes. That's a big one. It's going to make it more expensive and anytime the price is being driven up, it's going to have that sort of air of sophistication. And then of course, when the hip hop scene started, kind of using that in lyrics and popping champagne on the yacht and the videos. I'm on a boat. What was that? It was a series of life short. Okay. I think I remember that. I don't remember who it was. I changed, but I don't think it was got you. Was it one of those Andy Sandberg shorts? Not Lil Wayne. Who's the other? Lil? Lil Bow wow? No, he's just bow wow now. Really? Yeah. Little Rose up man. The guy who was like yeah, that guy. I have no idea. You do, little John. Yes. But yes, it was andy samberg Short. Yeah, I do. I think I do remember that. But that definitely kind of solidified the sort of status yeah, sure. That's exactly the word I would suggest. I mean, it's already right, solidified, but it definitely didn't hurt. No. Especially in the States here, and with a whole new generation of people, right. Like the younger generation, it's like champagne. Whole new generation of humans. Right. But then all of a sudden little John's like, yeah, got some champagne. No, for real. I'm sure the champagne industry was like, seriously, keep doing it. Sure. So the thing though, is there's actual reason behind champagne being more expensive than your typical wine, but that doesn't mean that all champagne or all sparkling wines are like out of your price range. Yeah, you can get some cheap sparkling wine that'll give you a mix of headache. No, that's not true. Like you can get shand on wines for $20 and it's not going to give you a headache. I was talking about the $6 bottle stuff. Yeah, but $20, I mean, if you're going to spring for a decent bottle of wine. Sure. If it's New Year's Eve? Sure, why not? That's when I'll toast it. Alright, so $20 will get you a good bottle of decent champagne is what you're saying. Yes. Not bad. Or you can spend hundreds of dollars, thousands, tens of thousands at auction, just like wine. If you want some super rare collectible wine or a champagne, apparently a quarter of a million dollars for a bottle at the Moscow Ritz Carlton. And that's not even something you drink, right? If you're a jackass, sure. But, I mean, if you have to be a Jackass to spend a quarter of a million dollars on a bottle of champagne anyway, you better drink it, frankly. But champagne you don't keep, right. You can. And so there's a lot of misunderstanding about it. Right. So a lot of people think that you keep champagne standing up. You do, for about the first month. But if you're keeping it in a seller, you want to keep it on its side. Like any bottle of wine, you want the wine touching the cork. But the reason that champagne actually ages in the bottle, it's just like wine that cork it's in there pretty good, but it's not airtight. There's a minimal amount of gas exchange going on. So the wine, the champagne continues to mature over the course of 1020 30 years if you keep it. The key to champagne, apparently storing it is you want to avoid temperature fluctuations. You want to keep it at about the same temperature for the whole time you have it stored to bury it in your backyard sure. On its side, deep, and leave it there. Yeah. And you will find that all the worms drank it and you'll be like worms. Bury it under the frost line. And you want to keep it out of the sunlight, too. Well, underground. But apparently, as it ages I've never had old champagne, but as it ages, its taste starts to mellow and it takes on dried fruit, nutty toasty, honey notes, or like, the main notes that it hits. Yeah. We had a bottle of Don Perignon that was awful when we opened it, but we didn't it was every improper thing you could do, we did. So including moving it in a hot truck from La. To Atlanta. That's funny. A hot moving truck? Yeah. I mean, we just don't drink it much, so we just had it and we got it as a gift. If that happens, you just put some fresh squeeze orange juice in there, it's fine. Boom. Then you got a mimosa. Yeah, I'll have a mimosa occasionally. That's champagne. I know an orange juice. Yeah, that's the key with the orange juice. Well, I mean, I enjoy mimosa more than just regular champagne. It's definitely one of those things that's greater than the sum of its parts. Yeah. I don't think I ever said, Chuck, that those two quarter of a million dollar bottles of champagne were from a shipwreck that was headed to Russia to bring champagne to the Czar family and the shipwrecked, and they discovered it in the now they're selling it at the Ritz Carlton to what did you say, Jackasses? And I think that's the one that's like a collector's piece, right? I don't know. You like to put it on your wall. That's not fair. I don't know. I don't know what you do with that besides just drink it and hope for the best. Well, should we talk about drinking it in the proper way to open it and to pour it yes, please. And consume it. Because if you don't know what you're doing and you've seen too many movies, you might try and pop that cork out across the room. It's very dangerous. It is very dangerous. And people get injured, right. Are there deaths? I think I didn't see anything. Or is that like an urban legend? I would guess an urban legend. I could be wrong. I'm thinking if you died from getting hit with a cork, you had a pre existing condition. Is that covered? No, no. Under Obamacare. Sure. I guess we'll see. So you'll get about six flutes if you're pouring properly out of a bottle of champagne. When I serve it between 40 and 45 degrees Celsius or Fahrenheit. That's Fahrenheit, right? I don't know. If you are caught with your pants down at a party, just go, champagne and it'll get you out of anything. And you want to chill it very quickly. You can put it in an ice bath and not to get out that yeast plug, but just to make it cold fast, just like you would beer or something. The neck, you mean? No, the whole bottle. If you want to serve it. Sure. You got a hot bottle of champagne in your moving truck, throw it in an ice bath for about 20 minutes, and you should be good to go. Yeah. There's a party trick you can do, too, where if you put just the neck in the ice bath, you can use what's called a saber. You can actually use anything. I've seen somebody do it on video with a shoe. Yeah. You don't even have to freeze it if you're a good saber. Yeah. But you kind of want to you want the neck very cold because you want the glass to just crack off cleanly. Yeah. And what the deal is, if you've ever seen someone, it's called Sabridge. We mentioned earlier that the champagne bottle is very thick because it's in there at about 90 PSI. Where the seam meets the lip, it's about 50% less glass. And so that's a vulnerable area, and that's what makes sabring possible. Well, like you said, you could use a shoe, I guess, if you're that guy. Right. But there's traditional sabers. They look like a little sword. They are a little sword. They just aren't ground to a point or an edge. They're very blunt. Well, because the point is using blunt force on a weak point of the neck of the bottle. Yeah, but you can use your like a saber can be sharp. You just use the other side of it. Okay. All right. Sure. And it's pretty neat to do because I think for a while I thought you were just knocking the cork out. That's what I thought as well. But you're knocking the glass off. Yeah. The top lip of the bottle is coming clean off if you're doing it correctly. And that is also dangerous if you don't know what you're doing, because that thing will fly 15, 20ft or more. And that's actual glass, what you want to do is have a sharp shooter handy to shoot it out of the sky before it hurts anybody. That's right. And have everyone stand behind you. Yeah. That's the traditional way. How you really open it is. And this is even if you're not just popping the cork, you might, like, twist the cork off. You want to twist the bottle. That's sort of the number one rule to open it cleanly and nondangerously and without champagne getting all over the place. Like when you open a tonic bottle, anything fizzy. It's one of our traditions backstage at Stuff You Should Know shows, is Josh opens a tonic bottle, get it all over me, it's everywhere. And you go, what's the deal? Every single time. I think, because I have so many lime salads and just I know you got to go easy with those tonic bottles. I do. And it still will spray me. It's almost comical. Almost. No, it's pretty funny. So you're twisting the bottle. If you have a towel, you can hold it over the cork, but you really don't need it as long as you're kind of holding it with your hand. Right. And twist that bottle. Put your thumb in the punt, as they call it, which is the area at the bottom of the bottle. The divot. Yeah, the punt. The concave part. Yes, the punt, sure. Put your thumb in the punt, and then you've got it open and you tilt the glass. Pour in a little bit. Pour a little bit more. You want about three quarters of a flute. And put your pinky up and go to town. Yeah. And I did a brain stuff on what the best kind of glass for champagne is, and apparently the tulip. Is it's a combination between the coop and the flute. You've probably seen them before. No, I didn't see that one. I thought you meant the tulip class. Yeah, I see tulips, but apparently they allow for the most sparkle. And if you have so the bubbles coming up, the French call effervescence. And if you look at a glass of champagne, then you're just holding there in front of you, when they bubble up to the top, they accumulate into a foam, and that is called moose. Like chocolatey moose, remember? Top secret. Oh, yeah. But it's not that. It's just mousse is what they call it. Or foam is another way to put it. That's what they call it. And so, actually, when you're creating the second fermentation process of the champagne making with the method champagne was it's called the priest de Moose or the foam creation. Wow. And that's why you pour it slow, too, because if you go too fast, it's going to get everywhere. Yes. Like your tonic. And then you pour it three quarters full and you toast and say hazard. Hazard, I think is the traditional thing you're supposed to say. So you like champagne yet? No, it's just not for me. That's fine. Don't feel bad for me. I won't. Then if you want to know more about champagne, go get some. And in the meantime, you can type that word in the search bar@houseteporkworks.com. And since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. All right, I'm going to call this one. Well, getting the nomenclature correct, something we always strive to do and don't always do. Hey, guys. Let me start by saying you've been listening your show for two years, added so much joy, laughter and knowledge to my life. I know you're always intentional and sensitive about the language you use on your show. And while listening to the Ms episode, I noticed something I've heard you to say in the past. I work in suicide prevention and hope to change the culture and reduce the stigma around suicide. As you know, one of the first steps of doing that is examining the language we use. The phrase commit suicide is very common, of course, and has been used for a very long time. However, the word commit makes it sound criminal. This perpetuates a stigma that there is something bad or wrong with someone who's experiencing thoughts of suicide, making it less likely that they will reach out and ask for help. I want to encourage you guys to use the word died by suicide or completed suicide as an alternative and more factual term. The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. It's a great resource for more information. And of course, I need to plug my own nonprofit at workfor. Notmykid.org. I appreciate everything you guys do. Please come to Phoenix. I guarantee you will sell out a show there. Sincerely, that is Sarah Tisdon, aka hope dealer. Oh, wow. Deal and Hope. That's a heck of aka. Yeah. And you know what? I never thought about that. That is not true. You have, because we've been called out on this before. Really? Yes. But I think we've even done a listener mail on it before. But it's so ingrained. I know. To say commit and then completed just sounds like they finished their homework or something like that. Right, but died by suicide. I can get behind that, and I will try, but it's just so hard to not stay committed. What, though, if you're saying if it hasn't happened, you're saying someone was going to attempting suicide. Okay, yeah, I think that one's kosher. All right, man. I didn't know we've covered this, so I feel bad that I still haven't gotten over that, then. Yeah, same here. All right, I'm going to work on it. Yeah, same here. Thanks for calling us out, Hope. Dealer appreciate that. Thanks, Sarah. Keep dealing that Hope. Open up your trench coat and be like, this is what I got. Right. I'll take a look. If you want to get in touch with us, to correct us, prod us, whatever, lay it on us. Send us an email to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My HeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows." | |
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podcasts.howstuffworks.com/hsw/podcasts/sysk/2017-06-01-sysk-food-fads-final.mp3 | The Stories Behind A Few Food Fads | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/the-stories-behind-a-few-food-fads | America loves to go nuts over new food trends and it turns out that the 20th century was a boon time for them. | America loves to go nuts over new food trends and it turns out that the 20th century was a boon time for them. | Thu, 01 Jun 2017 15:07:58 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2017, tm_mon=6, tm_mday=1, tm_hour=15, tm_min=7, tm_sec=58, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=152, tm_isdst=0) | 45976432 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetofworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry Jerome, Rowland and Franklin. Chief hair. Oh, Frank. He's been here the whole time. He just keeps quiet, mostly. Yeah. I don't have my hat on today, though. I know. What gives? I don't know. I'm growing the hair out, so I thought I'd just let it flow. I noticed it looks good. Why are you growing it out? I don't know. It just sort of started happening. Then I was like, my brother's got good hair. His is longer. Yeah. I'm always trying to be more like him. Plus, I can't have a butt cut with short hair. Yeah. Plus, I mean, I've had the same short, spiky hair for like, 15 years. Time to mix it up. I know, man. When I started growing mine out, I was like, what am I doing? What's with this cue ball crap? I'm so tired of all this. Let me just see what it looks like with a quarterback's name. Joe Thiesmann. No. Joe Thievesman. No. Terry Bradshaw? No. The one. Oh, Randall Cunningham. No. Tom Brady? Despite your harassment, I still figured it out. What about Tom Brady? Do you want his hair? I have his hair, buddy. I don't know about that. I do. Me and Tom Brady. Now. Chuck? Yes. Did you grow up on TV dinners at all? No. Really? No. My mom was and is a great cook, so she wouldn't have that. I see. Wow. Well, I did. I grew up on TV dinners and usually when a TV dinner appeared seriously, you did miss out. They were pretty amazing when you're like, six or seven years old. Oh, I've had them when you were six or seven? No, I had them, like, in college. Okay. So you understand the magic of a TV dinner, right? Sure. All right. Imagine that as like, a six year old. I'm sure it was magical. All of your foods in like a different little compartment, just staring at you, waiting, like, just wait, just wait. Buddy. Yeah. When you're six, it's just even better. And when I was six, if I would get a TV dinner, it meant that my parents were like, going to do something. Right. They were going to play bridge or something like that. Right. So it was like a special night. Exactly. I'd probably get to stay up late or there'd be some babysitter or whatever. It was always just kind of a special thing when TV dinners made an appearance. My parents never did anything together. They never played cards? No, man. I rarely had babysitters. I don't remember having babysitters. There was always one of them there. Yeah. Maybe they didn't trust you. They didn't like each other. I got you. They may have really enjoyed tea parties. Well, plus yes. You never know. I have a sister that's six years older, though. Yeah. Built in babysitter. Yeah. But they still didn't do a lot. I remember. I can literally just think of it a few times. They went to an Olivia Newton John concert once. They've got a pretty good track record so far. My mom went and saw Elvis, but not with my dad. Wow. On that last tour, too, man. I think they call that the Jumpsuit integrity tour. Hold on a second. Let me catch my breath. Yeah. What an undignified ending. Yeah. They didn't do much stuff together, so I didn't get a lot of TV dinners. I didn't get a lot of hey there's, just throw it in and warm it up. My mom was kind of always cooking for us. Yeah, my mom cooked a lot, too. But now that I'm older and look back, I'm like, pretty convenient meal. She was an Er nurse, for Pete's sake. Weird hours and stuff. Sure. But she's a great mom. She raised me very well, as everybody knows. It's a well known fact. So with TV dinners in particular, though, I have a certain amount of nostalgia for them. Sure. But apparently America as a whole has a bit of nostalgia for TV dinners. There's a TV dinner in the Smithsonian, for Pete's sake, and that's like America's greatest repository of nostalgia. For sure. Yeah. So I think we should take people on a delightful tour of the history of this wonder of TV dinners. Yeah. You sound like you're not so sure. No, I am sure. I was just joking around. I was trying to set it up as some magical experience that everyone is about to have, but I feel like that's ingrained in it. So, as the story goes, Swanson CA Swanson and Sons was and is a leader in the frozen food industry. And whether or not this is legend, who knows? But it's a great story was that one Thanksgiving, they had too much turkey on their hands. Post Thanksgiving. Yeah. To the tune of something like 250 tons of turkey that they didn't sell. They overestimate, which is so sad. Turkey, thanks for nothing. Yeah. We so wanted to give our life as a meal. Now we're just on a train. Well, yeah, that's what they did. So the story goes, they couldn't store it. They didn't end up room and no freezer room to store all this turkey. So they put it on a frozen train or a refrigerated train car, as Polar Express it's called in the industry. And the trick to this thing is, in order for that train to stay refrigerated, it's got to keep moving. And so they basically were just running this turkey all over the country to keep it frozen and cold. Right. It's like that one movie set in the future with Tilde Swinton, where, like, the train never stops. All society's on the train, but with frozen turkey. That's a good movie. So it's like that cross between that and speed. Yes. So if the train ever stops, it's going to lose refrigeration. If it loses refrigeration, the turkeys all go bad. Do you remember that? Simpsons which one? When Homer's trying to describe or think of the name of the movie Speed, he's like, it's about a bus. If its speed goes down and it can't speed up. And he says it like, that many times, and he goes, I think it's called the Bus That Wouldn't Slow Down. Or that couldn't slow down. Yeah, I remember that one. Very funny line. But this is real life, Chuck. This wasn't a cartoon or a joke. No. Half a million pounds of turkey on a train. And if it's spoilt what are you hoping that no, the idea that this actually happened. I know. It's so insane to me. So apparently, the Swanson brothers, Clark and what was the other brother's name? Gilbert. Gilbert. I wanted to say Clark and Gable, but Clark and Gilbert Swanson said, all right, employees, we need you to put your heads together and come up with an idea. Again, this is the legend. They had an employee contest where whoever could come up with what to do with all this turkey, I guess, would just be employee of the month or something like that. And all the while, this contest is going on in the Swanson Company. There's a train out there in the United States of America just circling endlessly because it can't stop, or else the turkeys will go bad until the sweet went and wins. Yeah. So there was a salesman named Jerry Thomas. G-E-R-R-Y. Right. Which no one ever gets. Right. This is the part I get. He traveled from Nebraska to Pittsburgh to where Pan American Airways had their kitchens because they were testing single compartment foil tray meals that they would serve to people. And I guess he couldn't envision what that might look like unless he went there in person. Right. And steal one. Well, yeah, it a was single compartment. Right. So basically, it was just a tray that you put a bunch of food on. There were, like, different compartments in the tray. And he's like, I got to get my hands on one of these. Right. This is innovation. Yeah, I don't understand that either. Which is why his story smells a little fishy to me. Agreed. But this guy, Jerry Thomas, he's known as the inventor, basically, of the TV dinner, right? Yeah. So he comes back to the Swanson brothers and says, I got it. I've driven from Pittsburgh back home to wherever the Swanson Company is located. Where am I? He famously said. And he said, and I've added two more compartments into this tray. So now it's a three compartment tray. And I drew two lines in the tray. I know what to do with the turkey now. We're going to basically sell it as a frozen Thanksgiving dinner. And they said, your employee of the month, Jerry. Yeah. They say, look, you got your potatoes and gravy here. You got your peas here, you got your turkey here. None of it touches each other. I'm a genius. I'm Jerry Thomas. So this coalesce with another craze, which was television. And in 1953, there were 33 million households with television. And there had been other people that had been doing this before. Quaker State Foods in 1949 had something in the supermarket of frozen meal called under. Oh, jeez. I don't want to say one of the most offensive brand names ever. Yeah, the one eyed eskimo label. Yeah. That's terrible. So they were selling those in supermarkets, and then in previous to that, even the Strato plates from Maxine were being served on airplanes, but not as a retail food. Right. It had been done before. So the creation of the TV dinner well, wait, don't leave out Jack Fisher. Who? Jack Fisher. Oh, right. What was that one called? Frigid dinners. Yes, but they're the most depressing meal ever. Because they're reserved in bars. Yeah, they're served in bars. So you didn't have to leave to go home to eat dinner. You could just stay and keep drinking. Oh, man. There were some bars in La. In Los Velos when I lived there that around 02:00 a.m. The tamale guy would come around. Okay, that's different. Oh, dude, it was the best. They were legit handmade tamales. And at 155 was the perfect time to be dropping in to the drawing room. Oh, yeah. Nice. Anyway, the creation of the TV dinner was not so much that it was a brand new thing, but it was a marketing success story, because the TV, they thought, if we can build the thing around the television, then we've got something on our hands. Right. That was the key, the TV, making it a TV dinner. Right. Because all of a sudden, it was like, hey, everybody loves TV. Plus, this is something I didn't realize. It added a certain amount of, like, cachet to the TV dinner. Right. Because if you had a TV dinner, it meant that you had a TV, and if you had a TV, you were probably upper middle class at the time. Right. So the idea of having a TV or dinner to go with your TV really appealed to Americans. And even to this day, it was such a great marketing coup, I guess, that people still call almost any frozen entree or frozen meal a TV dinner. Even though it was 1962 when Swanson stopped calling their products that they still made the products. They just stopped calling them TV dinners. Everybody else kept calling them TV dinner. Yeah. You were eating these in the 80s, like, 20 years after that brand went away, still calling on TV dinners and eating them on TV trays. This is another thing you missed out on. Chuck. Did you have those? Sure. So that was the whole point of the TV tray was it was a foldable individual table that you would open up in front of yourself and eat your TV dinner on while you're sitting on the couch so you could watch TV most efficiently while you're eating dinner. And now they call that the coffee table. You just stoop over a little bit. Or the sink. What eating over the sink? I don't know what that is. That's a depressing way to eat. So these are actually called that was the brand Swanson's TV brand Frozen Dinner. And they're big concept with the box, if you look it up on the Internet, was it looked like it was designed like a little television. The box was the dinner itself was like the screen on the screen. And then it had the little dials on the bottom left and right corner and it looked like a little TV. All right. It was $98. And they sold a ton of them. Yeah, apparently so. Again, remember, all this came from a bunch of turkey that was about to spoil. So Swanson, in order to get the cross start to an industry, swanson ordered, like, 5000 of them initially to be made. And they hired a small battalion of ladies in aprons and ice cream scoops and spatulas to assemble these things. Right. And they just had them go right down the assembly line. And they sold $5,000 just almost immediately. And apparently in the first year that they were sold, they sold, like, 10 million of them. Wow. They came out with them in 1954. And by the end of the first full year of production, which I guess would be 1955, they'd sold 10 million of them. So they went from initially ordering 5000 of them to selling 10 billion of them in a year. So it just hit America just right. Oh, yeah. And it was at a time where women were starting to kind of reenter the workforce. Gave them time that they could still get that hot meal on the table because that was their job back then. Right, right. It gave women a really great opportunity to provide a stark contrast to the husband's mother. Yeah. Apparently there were a bunch of men who are like, this isn't good enough. I want my wife to cook from scratch like my mom, Doctor Freud. And if they could be like my mom in a lot of other ways, that'd be awesome. Would it kill her to wear a hair nut rollers? Yeah. So apparently it didn't delight all men because they weren't on board. Would it kill her to dress me up in a diaper? We should do an episode on that sometime. That's the thing I thought you'd have to say on Freud, but on men wearing diapers as adults. Yes. I think it's called Diaper Play for sex play, but it's diaper centric. Yeah, we should do a podcast on that. Just that? Well, we can include it in, like, maybe a fetish one. How about that? All right. Okay. Wow. That took a weird turn all the time. It really did. Jeez, you got anything else on TV dinners. That's a good way to end it, I think. No. Should we take a break? Yes. All right, I'm going to go change my diaper. We'll talk about gelatin right after this. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office? And you could be using Stamps.com. Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses because Stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and Ups shipping services you need right from your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS rates and 86% off Ups to stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale. No longterm commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com. Click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. So, Chuck, you were saying that in the last one that the TV dinner hit just right and struck America in part because women were starting to enter the workforce. Right. That was partially the result of World War II. World War II also changed things as far as food and food consumption and food packaging goes. And that apparently at the end of World War Two, there were a lot of companies that had gone all in into supplying the troops food, and we're making pretty great money, but apparently we're basically caught with a large amount of supply when the war ended. And they said, well, if we don't figure out a way to get non wartime America, the regular American consumer, to buy this stuff, we're going to go out of business. We're overextended, basically. And so food companies, I guess, individually and on the whole, taught America to basically eat what had, prior to that point, been considered field rations. Yeah, like Spam, if you remember that podcast, that kind of was where that whole movement was born. Yes. Spam, condensed soup, dehydrated stuff, freeze dried stuff. Like, all of this came out of basically an overstock of World War II food supplies that were intended for troops and were kind of repackaged and rearranged to be served to the American consumer. And part of that also was that same thing that TV dinner struck, which was convenient, like, hey, your husband still wants a meal, and your family still expects you to be the one to cook for them, but now you have to work. So what are you going to do? Well, we have something helpful for you, and it's called convenience food. And one of the big convenience foods that came out of the post war era, but really it started to gather steam before then was gelatin. Yes. Specifically jello as the name brand. But gelatin the word is from Latin. Gelatos, meaning jellied froze. And it was first used in Egypt, but was really first used in cooking in France. And I think most people know this by now, but if you don't gelatin is a protein, and it's produced from collagen. From boiling animal bones. Yeah. Or hooves. Yeah. So it's gluten is basically and it can go one of two ways, I think, depending on what you do with it. You can turn it into glue or you can turn it into food. That's for a good start. No, it really is. Yeah. And a guy from, I think, the 17th century in France what was his name? Peppin someone. Peppin dennis Pabeen. Right. Who may or may not be related to Jacques Peppin, who is great in French. He's also a cook. He was the first person to mention it in writing, I believe. And then it just kind of sat there for a while, until the 19th century, when, I guess, people were aware of gelatin and that you could use it as a food. But it was extraordinarily gourmet. Like, the average person was not making jello at home. It was very time consuming. You had to start from scratch and boil animal bones to start the process of gelatin. It was the exact opposite of how we think of gelatin today. Which is instantaneous. Right? Sure. So easy. Yeah. So in the 19th century, this guy named Peter Cooper figured out a way to turn gelatin into a powder form, a dehydrated gelatin powder. And it went absolutely nowhere for 50 years. And I was surprised to find this out. I knew gelatin was pretty old, but it's interesting how it's just kind of moved along in these very slow little fits and starts. Yeah. Like no one would give up on it. No, it was interesting. Which is weird, because it's really disgusting, if you think about it. It should have been given up on. Yeah. And it never was. It's a very bizarre invention. It almost makes you feel like there was some sort of divine hand guiding gelatin along in its progress. Yeah. So later on in 1894, a guy named Charles Knox kind of revolutionized things when he came up with a process that resulted in a dried sheet of gelatin. And he hired salesman to go door to door to show women, like, hey, you can add liquid to these sheets. You can make desserts, you can make aspects. Which is a really gross word, I think. It is a gross thing. It's a savory gelatin. Yeah. Which will get to that. But a couple of years later, rose Knox was that his wife, I guess yes. Published a book called Dainty Desserts, which is a book of recipes, and things were kind of moving along a little bit. Then in 1895, there was a cough syrup company in New York called Pearl B. Wait, is that what it's called? Pearl Wait. Okay. But they weren't selling much cough syrup, so they said, all right, let's get into the food business. And the wife, whose name was May, said, let me add some fruit syrups to this stuff. And actually, she's the one who named it Jello. She came up with that name? Yeah. But they didn't succeed either and sold that to their neighbor, Francis is that the whole name, orator Francis Woodward? Yes. For $450, this person purchased the name brand Jello. Right. And he almost fell victim to the curse of Jello as well. Right. He could do nothing with it either, despite some early attempts. He apparently tried to sell it to his supervisor at work for $35, even though he paid $450 to it wow. For it. So at some point, I guess, he decided to give it another go, and he hired a bunch of traveling salesmen, sent them out to fairs, community gatherings, that kind of stuff, and said, Teach the people how to make the jello. And this time it started to stick. Actually, jello kind of hit at just the right time. Finally, or I should say the world was finally ready for jello, part of it had to do with refrigeration. Yeah, for sure. Once refrigeration is key for jello, as we all know, and once those technologies were developed, it kind of well, it formed literally. It all congealed and figuratively. And then once advertising started taking over, like in the mid 1930s, general Foods had a very famous radio ad from Jack Benny, the J-E-L-L-O tag, which really kind of helped push things along as well. Yeah. And I noticed that at some point they started dabbling with other flavors. I think originally they tried strawberry, raspberry, orange, and lemon. Right. And then they tried chocolate, and apparently chocolate didn't go over very well. So they refused pudding, though, right? No, first they just released it as chocolate jello. Oh, God. That's pretty awful. And then they thought, oh, maybe we should add milk instead of water. And that's when they came up with jello pudding, and they rereleased chocolate, and that spurred, like, a whole pudding line, including something I grew up on, which is butterscotch jello pudding. Oh, yeah. Man, that was so good. Except you had to get the skin off. The skin was no good, but everything under the skin was great. What's the skin? It was just, like, on top. It was the tougher layer on top. Yeah. But if you just scraped it off, you had some nice pudding underneath. Emily still loves the chocolate jello pudding. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. She'll make a parfait. Oh, nice little pudding. A little whipped cream. Little pudding, little whipped cream. She knows how to live. Yes, she does. It's a special night that happens about three times a year, and I'm like, oh, boy. Part of daytime. So in the 1950s, supposedly, the jello shot with alcohol was invented by this really interesting guy named Tom Lara. He was a mathematician and a singer songwriter who I looked into him. He did song parodies about math and chemistry. I guess he was like the Jonathan Colton of his day, as far as I can tell. And he was also in the army. And to get around alcohol restrictions, as the story goes, he claims he invented the Jello shot, which I've never had. What? I've never had a jello shot. Wow. Well, you're not missing much. They're pretty gross. Well, Jello I can't stand jello. Well, even if you like or ambivalent to jello, it's just gross. Does it taste like yeah, it's tequila jello or whatever. Yes, it's a very obnoxious taste you're supposed to use. Like, I think you replace half of the water with whatever liquor you're using. Usually people use vodka. It really just stands out in a noxious way. Gross. By the way, Tom Lehrer, I thought the name sounded familiar. He is pretty great. He wrote this one song called The Old Dope Peddler and Two Chains. Actually. You know the rapper Two Chains from Atlanta? No. Yes, you do. Oh, wait, is he our guy? Was he the guy that judged that no, that was young jock, right? No. Two changes. He's huge, man. He did a song where he sampled the old dope peddler, and he, I guess, wrote to Tom Lehrer to ask for permission to sample it. Tom Lehrer had this awesome famous response. So just read up on that. Did he let him use it? Yes. Oh, great. So he's the opposite of Don Henley, probably every single way. Yeah. But jello, shots are gross. Jello shots are gross. So Jello is speeding long. It's taking over America, and then they decide to come out with these savory lines. And it became and this was this post World War II thing that you were talking about when I guess they did there was this great article you sent, making and Eating the 1950s Most Nauseating Jello Soaked Recipes from Collector Week. Yeah. Hunter Oakman, Stanford. And they did this interview with Ruth Clark. Yeah, Roof Clark. Basically. It's a really good interview. And she talks about kind of this savory movement that took over. And not only with Jello. But the fact that it was a time in America where and if you look back. It's so great to look back at these old ads and these old recipe books that it was a time where the goal was to have a dinner party with this big. Flashy. Experimental. And unique centerpiece. Food centerpiece made of jello. Well, Jello all kinds of things. We're talking about the hot dog tree right. Yeah. It could be a lot of different stuff, and I think that's what Ruth Clark does. She recreates this stuff, right? Yeah. And her poor husband has to eat it. But a lot of those things were jello molds. Oh, yes. And a lot of the reason why jello molds were so weird and so popular is because jello put so much time and effort into publishing cookbooks. And the whole point was, all of these food companies wanted all of their products to be your entire meal. So they were putting these random products that the food company made into some really weird configurations, and they came up with some very odd jello molds in the 50s or 60s. It was such a sad culinary time. It was. But Ruth clerk makes a good point that to the people at that time, like, a really well thought out, fancy jello mold was as a centerpiece of your table was, like, the pinnacle of class enous. Yeah, but we're talking about, like, a shaped mold with, like, lamb shank and asparagus inside of jello. A savory jello that's, like, celery flavored. Oh, you're lucky if it was savory. Lime jello is one of the most abused jello flavors of all time. People would put tuna and stuff in with the lime jello. There's one called Perfection Salad. That's coleslaw inside of lime jello. Yes. And what Ruth Clarke pointed out was that gelatin apparently preserves food really well. And that coleslaw that would have otherwise been inedible and runny after day three was still crunchy after day five when it was put inside of a jello mold. So gross. So gross. Yeah. There's actually a great BuzzFeed article if you want to get an idea of what people were doing in the with jello molds. It's called 17 Horrifyingly Disgusting Retro gelatin recipes, and they are gross, man. Like cottage cheese and salmon mold. Yeah. I mean, I hate Jello. Oh, man. Like, you're waking nightmare. I couldn't even look through it. You sent it to me, and I scrolled about halfway through and deleted through my computer out the window. The best one I see is lime cheese salad. It's lime jello mixed with cottage cheese. And then into the center of the jello mold, you put a seafood salad. Oh, my God. Sauerkraut mold. It just goes on and on, but it was a weird time. And again, Ruth Clarke has a bunch of theories. She said she can't really answer exactly why jello molds were as big as they are, but she posits that part of it was this idea that there are all these companies trying to get you to use their products, and these were just monstrosities that they came up with, and people fell for it. Like canned salmon, canned tuna, and jello. Right. My God. So that's jello molds, man. Where do you want to head next? Let's go to the crockpot. All right. That was our Crockpot travel song. First. Of all, I have a crockpot. Same here. Is yours actually crockpot or using it as a proprietary epinem? I don't think it's a crockpot brand pot. Yeah, it's a slow cooker. There you go. And I forget to use it a lot, but when I remember, I'll go on a little Crock Pot binge where I'll cook a few meals over the course of a few weeks in a crockpot, and they're still great if you know how to use it and how to spice things up, for sure. Apparently, at first, people didn't know, because if you're cooking a recipe, say, it's like simmering, say, like a beef stew on the stove top, that simmering action that it's going undergoing. It does something different to the recipe than a crockpot does, even though it's the exact same recipe. And so at first, when Crockpots came out, it was first introduced by rival back in 1971, when Crock Pots first came out, people were like, this dinner that it's making is really gross. It doesn't taste very good. It's bland. Yeah. And yet they still didn't stop using or buying Crock Pots. Well, food was more bland back then. Well, we're talking the 70s, so by the think people were using more spices than before. I think it was more bland in, like, the maybe the 50s. Yeah, you're probably right. But that one article we read said an old recipe for chili would have, like, a teaspoon of chili powder or something. And it's like all the food just suck. Because they didn't realize, like, no, man, you dumped a bunch of that junk in there. Well, you were saying back in the 40s or 50s, when TV dinners really hit, moms were starting to enter the workforce. In 1971, moms were really into the workforce. And so the idea of having a Crock Pot where you could make this meal in a one pot in the morning, throw it all in there, turn it on, and then come home at the end of the day and dinner was ready, and you still went to work and got everything you needed to get done. Done was so attractive that despite the fact that it made these meals that did not taste like they should, people were still like I said, they were still buying the Crock Pots. And instead, they started to look around to find tips for how to make these things taste better. And actually, a woman named what was her name? Mabel. Yeah, Mabel Hoffman. Mabel Hoffman stepped into the fray and said, peace, children. I've got this covered. Listen up. Yeah, she wrote a book called The Crockery Cookery or Crockery Cookery Know the and it was a huge hit. It was a New York Times bestseller, I believe. She went on to sell about 6 million copies of this thing. And I don't even think we've said that. We said, you throw the food in there and cook it all day. But the whole idea is that you put a kind of a tight fitting lid on there, and it cooks at a very low heat all day long. Right. And then when you get home from work 8 hours later or something like that, it will be done. You just serve and smile. Yeah. And thanks to crockery Cookery, the Crock Pot in 1971 earned $2 million in 72, 10,000,073, 23 million, and then eventually peaking in 1975 at $93 million worth of crockpots being sold. It was a genuine legit craze food craze and supposedly crockpot cookery. The book was America's 6th best selling cookbook ever. Right? Yeah. So this was like, a legitimate crate. Crockpot cooking was a legitimate crate. But again, there was something compared to the same recipes on the Stove top as compared to a Crock Pot. The flavor was just disappointing. So what Mabel Hoffman did was on a very tight deadline. Create from scratch a book, I guess the world's first cookbook of slow cooker recipes. And she did it in her own kitchen with, like, 20 Crock Pots going all day every day because she had to testing all this stuff. And she figured out some of the keys to Crock Pot cooking, which was, like, you want to use way less liquid than you would use, like, on the Stove Top, because you have a lot less evaporation. The Crock Pot keeps it in there, which is one reason why meat is so tender in a crockpot or slow cooker, because it just recirculates the moisture rather than allowing it to just evaporate. Right, yes. And then another thing she came up with was that when you use herbs into the recipe, you want to reserve some of them for right before the things finish cooking so you can have it, like a pop of fresh flavor. Yes. So once she figured this out, crock Pots just took off even more. Yes. So they were selling a bunch of Crock Pots. She was selling a bunch of cookbooks, and eventually she would say, hey, I really was onto something here. So she wrote Deep Fry Cookery, Chocolate Cookery, and these are 78, 79, 77, like, kind of all in a row crepe cookery. And then eventually, in 1985, healthy Crockery Cookery. The person who interviewed her later in life said that she was just this really great lady, very humble, and was super upfront about the fact that she like, hey, I hit something at the right time with the right book, and I of kind fell into this, and it's been just, like, a wonderful thing for my life. Yeah, it's really neat. Yeah, she sounds like a pretty cool person. So what's your crockpot recipe? Oh, jeez. I don't know. What's your favorite thing to cook? Usually some sort of, like, beef. Yeah, it just does such a good job, like making a roast or something. Okay. But yeah, that's usually when I'm cooking. When I cook in a crockpot, it's beef. All right. Josh's crockpot surprise. Right. With aspect. You want to take a break? Yeah, let's take a break. And we'll finish up with a bit interesting bit on Oak brand. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office when you could be using Stamps.com? Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses. Because Stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and Ups shipping services you need right. From your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS. Rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. So, Chuck yes. We finally arrived. We're just going to go forward a few years. The way back machine is in the shop is why I'm having to do it to the 80s. Man an Oat brand. Yes. I know that we differ on the interestingness of this one. I'm just fascinated by it, really. I really am. Because it's got it all. It's got the 80s. Do you remember the SNL, the famous SNL ad for colon blow? I do. That was based on this came out of this trend has to do with studies. Studies that contradict those studies. Bad science reporting, the whole thing. Okay. I love it. Oats. Oat brand. Yeah, it's very important. It is. So there was this huge trend in the 80s where anything that had to do with Oprah and you could sell a million units of a minute. Yes. So much so that there was a 1990 article from Tulsa World that said that there were no, I'm sorry. The La. Times article from 1990 said that there were over like 300 different items available in grocery stores at the time that touted on its label. The fact that it had Oat brand and people were nuts for it. Yes, they were. And this is largely due to some studies that came out that said that oat bran was kind of a miracle food for lowering cholesterol. Right. And that was like back in the late seventy s, and I guess Quaker Oats took notice of those studies and they released a thing called mother's Oprah, but they sent it straight to the hippies at the health food store and didn't do anything about it. They just released a product. And that was that. Yeah. And then Kellogg came along and said, hey, you know what? What if we start telling people that our food can basically prevent cancer? Can we do that? And the lawyers said no. And the president of Kellogg said, well, we're doing it anyway. Who's going to stop us? Reagan? And Reagan said, no, I'm not going to stop you. That was a good Reagan. Thank you. And so they said, okay, well, you eat our cereal and it will reduce cancer. And nothing happened. There was no blowback, despite the fact that this had been illegal for nearly a century. And then Quaker Oats partnered with Chicago's Northwestern University and Linda Van Horn in because they had a similar study about oat bran cutting cholesterol. Right. So they're starting to say, well, Kellogg didn't get in trouble. Let's try this ourselves. And they went out and they hired Wilford Brimley. You remember his ads? Yeah, I think I told the story about working with them. Oh, yeah. Wasn't he like the antithesis of what his persona was? Yeah, the word got around. They were like, maybe a short day, because that's how it goes with them sometimes. I think it was I think we wrapped it about half day because he was just like, I'm done. I'm can't anchorous. Yeah. But in the meantime, when the cameras are rolling, he told everybody that eating quicker oprah was the right thing to do and it would cut your cholesterol. That's right. And then this book came out. So things are starting to build here for oprah. And this book came out called The Eight Week Cholesterol Cure by a guy named Robert E. Kowalski. And it chronicled the decline of his LDL, the bad cholesterol, just from eating an oprah and diet. And that book became extraordinarily popular. Supposedly. It was one of the greatest selling self help books of all time. It just took off. Yeah. And then yet another thing happened. And this is the thing. This is like, where the peak began, I think. The Journal of the American Medical Association april 1988 published a study from the University of Maryland where these researchers found that eating oprah could really significantly lower your cholesterol. And not only that, it does it for a 6th of the price of the expensive cholesterol lowering drugs. That's right. And people ate even more oat. Brand that's right. The trend is developing. Can you see it? I think it's fully developed at this point. So everybody's going out brand crazy. And one of the big things that they were doing was eating oprah and muffins. But these oprah muffins were like loaded with fat and butter and eggs, and so they weren't actually doing anything to lower their cholesterol because the effects would be counteracted suckers. Right. But in the meantime, people were still having fun eating lots of muffins and pretending they were really healthy. And then this Harvard study came out and it basically said, you know what? You're all fools. You're dummies. You know how it lowers your cholesterol because it keeps you from eating bacon and eggs? That's how you chumps. Well, yeah. And then that study itself was attacked because they only studied 20 people, which is not much of a study. It isn't. And the people who were on the ober and diet were eating 20% more fat than the control group. It was a terrible study. Almost like they wanted to take Oprah and down a peg. Yeah, and it worked really well. Basically, the science reporting in major newspapers and the news services reported that Oprah was the greatest thing ever. And then they suddenly turned on it and said, Oprah is nothing, and everybody dropped Opran. If you read the stuff today, it's true. Oprah really does lower cholesterol. Sure. But it just got overhyped. Right. Because of the 80s. That's the 80s for you. Yeah. That's food fads, man. You got anything else? I got nothing else. All right, man. Well, if you want to know more about food fads, you can type those words into the search bar@howstopworks.com. Search bar. You're not going to get much stuff, so you may want to just look elsewhere. But still, since I said that, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this Ms response, and I would like to say that we got many great responses from our Ms episode. A lot of warm thoughts from people about my friend Billy and just really great people with Ms, people who had people in their family. We heard from doctors and nurses, and that just ended up being a really good episode. So we appreciate that feedback. But this is from anonymous listener. Hey, I've been listening to your show for a couple of years now. I want to thank you for making my commute more engaging. Listen to the show on Msnbright Home and like to commend you for how well you handle the topic. I was diagnosed a few years ago at 19. Luckily, my diagnosis was quick due to the severity of my first relapse, and I feel like your podcast would have helped me understand and cope with the diagnosis in a more constructive manner than my initially trying to self destruct. Since then, I'm continually learning about the latest research in history. I love that you discussed Lidwina and Augustus deste as a lot of the time they don't come up in the mainstream discourse of Ms. Didn't really know any history until I wrote an undergrad history paper on Ms last year and found reading through bits of Death Day's journal to be the closest I've ever felt with the historical person. You mentioned that many tend to keep their diagnosis a secret. I'll admit that with me it's a need to know basis, and I rarely openly talk about it outside of family friends in the support system, mainly because of the stigma of the disease. And that the assumptions circulating Ms tend to negatively alter people's perceptions of myself as an individual. Have had people approach me when I start limping, thanks to fatigue and a permanently numb foot, but I'll brush it off and tell them there's nothing to worry about or it's an old injury. However, I think with time it's getting easier to talk about, thanks to resources like your podcast that are well researched and accurate. I cringe whenever someone tells me there's an easy homeopathic solution to my ailments, and sometimes I struggle with discussing Ms in an accessible way that doesn't solely rely on the clinical pathological understanding of it. And I will be sure in the future to redirect people to this episode. Thank you so much for sharing. And we said we keep this anonymous because this person yeah, this person said that's great that you read it, but if they're keeping it quiet for now, we don't want to broadcast the name. Sure. Yeah. Nice. Thank you, Anonymous. Yeah, thanks, Anonymous. If you want to get in touch with us, like Anonymous did, you can tweet to us. Yeah, I guess it'd be anonymous. I'm at Josh Clark and at Sisk podcast. You can hang out with Chuck on Facebook. Comstepyshedo or at Charleswchuckbryant on Facebook. You can send us both an email. We promise to be confidential@stuffpodcastofworks.com and as always, join us at our home on the web stuffyshow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstofworks.com. Hey everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer school's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcast. Plus, with Amazon Music you can access new episodes early. Download the app today." | |
How Tupperware Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-tupperware-works | Tupperware won immediate design acclaim when it was released in 1947, but it took a pioneering female executive to make a line of plastic food storage into an icon of the American postwar boom. Learn about the surprisingly intriguing history of Tupperware | Tupperware won immediate design acclaim when it was released in 1947, but it took a pioneering female executive to make a line of plastic food storage into an icon of the American postwar boom. Learn about the surprisingly intriguing history of Tupperware | Thu, 28 May 2015 16:17:44 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2015, tm_mon=5, tm_mday=28, tm_hour=16, tm_min=17, tm_sec=44, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=148, tm_isdst=0) | 35793678 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W, Chuck Bryant and there's Jerry. So this is stuff you should know. Have you ever heard of Tupperware burp? Yeah, sort of. I mean, it doesn't sound like a burp. It's just sort of like can you emulate one? Well, it's just like air. Just sort of it doesn't sound like a burp. It sounds like a tube. Yeah. Something different. Yes. But I don't think you could call it a tupperware fart, because it probably wouldn't sell as much. But even a burp is a little okay, so I guess I have heard one before when I was a kid, but I thought there was a a burp or something like that. Do you remember that cartoon? It might have been like what was the oh, Droopy. I think it might have been a Droopy cartoon, folks. Some sort of tech savory cartoon where, like, they had a machine that burped radishes. I think it was, like, the kitchen of the future. One great cartoon. Wow. That's what I assume the Tupperware thing was like. Yeah, I was a big droopy fan. I thought I was missing out. No, just a little air being expelled. But it was a very important bit of air. Sure. Because, Chuck, at the time that Tupperware came out, women were using basically a pot that they cooked something in, maybe a bowl, and putting a shower cap over it and storing it in the ice box. You know what they call that? Primitive. Yeah, that's primitive food storage. It sounds like Tuktuk would have done something like that. Not men and women in the 1940s. Right. Except he would have used, like, some sort of Madagascar type animal pelt. Sure. From the movie Madagascar. No, not Madagascar. Ice. That's what I'm thinking of. I haven't seen it once. They're very similar. It's set in, like, different climbs and different time periods. I've never seen them either. Different animal protagonists. I can get a lot from commercials. Yeah. So, yeah, Tupperware, let's talk about it. The original patent. I love the name of this thing, and it was created you want to drop this cool little fact by the name of the guy? Earl Tupper. Yeah. Never knew that. Yeah, I guess I didn't either. I didn't think about it. No, you think of Tupperware is nothing but tupperware, and there's no Tupper. Who invented it? It's crazy talk, right? Yeah. There was a tupper named Earl, and that tupper. Tupperware. Yes. The Earl of Tupper. He has a patent called well, Hat. He doesn't have it anymore. The Es Tupper open mouth container and non snap type of closure. Therefore this is, by the way. Yeah, that's why I read it like that. Right. I was explaining that to everybody else. They know me. This is going poorly. No, it's not. So you want to talk a little bit about Tupper himself? Yeah. He was a bit of a reclusive figure, as we'll find. But he's a pretty sharp guy. A grouch, I think is a possible way to describe him. Maybe a bit of a mad, smart tinkering grouch. Yeah. He disliked his father because he felt his father lacked ambition. And this is when he was like, ten. All you do is just go to the races and lay around. Well, his parents owned like a farm of sorts, but I think I get the idea. It was like kind of a harvest your own farm. And this kid, Little Earl Tupper, when he was like ten, 1112, he was pitching the idea to build like a children's playground on the grounds of his pick your own farm to attract tourists and stuff. And his dad was like, that sounds like a lot of work. Totally. Just go to school or something. Get out of my hair. Pipe down. And Earl was like, you're going to pay for ignoring me. But he was a sharp contrast to his father is what I'm trying to say. He was very ambitious. Sure. Big Tinker came up with a lot of different patent ideas and apparently patents, too. Yeah. He had a book of inventions. There was a better stocking garter, which is a very sexy thing for a child to admit. Right. A better way to remove a burst appendix. Yeah, that's for real. A dagger shaped comb to be clipped through the belt. Pants that wouldn't lose their crease. This one of great import. Yeah. The customized cigarettes. I can't believe that didn't catch on. Like for real. You know how Coca Cola does this? Stupid cans and bottles now with names. Oh, no, I understand. Yeah. There were cigarettes that said, like, Sporty or the Collegiate on the cigarette got you. So it would have, like, your sports team emblazoned on the side. Maybe the problem is none of these inventions took off. No, this guy literally well, he could give his inventions away, but he almost literally couldn't give them away. He ended up manufacturing these things, and giving them away is like premiums for other stuff, like cigarettes and things like that. Yeah. So he starts a tree doctor business. Tucker tree doctors that failed after the Depression, people were cutting back on things like tree doctoring. So we went out of business and in a very fortuitous move, went and worked for Viscoloid Plant, which is a division of Dupont making plastics. Right. And this is where things kind of started taking shape yes. For what was bowl. So basically, he gets into plastics and this town in Massachusetts that he ended up in, where the Viscoloid Plant was. Yeah. He was all over New England, basically, growing up. Right. This particular town was kind of like a mad scientist mecca, where, like, all of this stuff is going on in plastics. All these little tiny plastic manufacturing outfits. It's like a startup town for plastics in like, the 30s or 40s, we have this new thing. What else can we do with it? Yeah, and which, by the way, plastic, especially polyethylene. Polyethylene was invented by accident in 1898. And by the 40s, they perfected the polyethylene, or it had come out perfect, but they hadn't figured out quite how to use it. And Earl Tupper was one of those guys in the 40s on the cutting edge of taking plastics and figuring out how to mold them in the right shape, how to keep them from being oily or sticky or falling apart when they were sitting out in the sunlight or all this stuff. This guy's doing all these tests and he ends up coming up, thanks to getting a block of this pure polyethylene from Dupont, the good stuff, the good stuff, the uncut stuff, and he figures out how to make this bowl a wonder layer bowl is what he calls it. Yeah. And Dupont at the time didn't think that they could even mold plastic. He was smarter than their guys. Right, because he figured out how to do it. And then, along with the design, the patented Tupperware seal that made it so useful and famous that made the what? Sound? That made the burping sound or tooting sound. He originally got that idea for the seal from paint cans. Apparently, the fact that you could turn a paint can upside down and it wouldn't leak paint out all over the place. And he said, I guess we can do this with food. Yeah, like put food in here. It's sealed. Look at the demonstration. It's upside down and I'm shaking it and there's none of that gravy coming out, right? The gravy is not coming out. I can drop this bowl and it's not going to break because everyone knows how clumsy housewives are. Oh, sure. Breaking stuff all over. And the fact that you burp it and it makes that sound and you're basically preserving the food for many days to come true, which is huge because a lot of the people who were homemakers in the they had lived through the Depression and they remembered exactly what it was like. So preserving food was a big deal. Oh, yeah. And so this thing was like it's really easy to take for granted these days, but it was very cutting edge technology. Well, these days they have all those terrible cheapo I was going to say knockoffs are not knockoffs. They are major brands. But those little cheap plastic containers that are sold, they're not nearly the quality of Tupperware. No, tupperware started all that. Yeah. And this stuff is garbage. The lids don't fit right ever. They break. They don't do anything that Tupperware did. I have a wonderful hole from the really? That's still perfect. I mean, it's a little worn down, but it still functions perfectly. Right. Well, it's a testament to Tupperware. Yeah. And that other garbage, that stuff, like, I don't have anything from last year. Well, and it was made during a time of much more disposable thinking. Sure. At the time, it was like, we're going to make something that will last forever. Yeah. And I think they still have a lifetime guarantees on everything. Do they really? Yeah. Like, you could send in a tupperware piece from the if it's broken and it meets the requirements, like you didn't smash it with a hammer or something. They'll give you, like, credits or the equivalent of what you get today or something. It's like, well, you paid $85 for that. Let's see what the Westgate Currency Calculator has to say about that. So he formed Tupper Plastics. Things did not take off, though, like he thought they would. He put them in department stores and hardware stores for some reason. Oh, really? Yeah. Not a good place to sell your tupperware. Yeah. I mean, nowadays I can see that, but back then, you probably just went to hardware stores for nails and hammers and stuff. Yeah, I'm sure there are home goods and stuff, too. It was probably closer to a general store in the hardware stores today, but even still, they weren't flying off the shelves. That's the point. They were not. So what he did was there was another timeline going on at the same time, stanley Home Products basically pioneered the non door to door sales in favor of hosting a party, for lack of a better word, in home demonstrations where you gather people together. And it was a guy named Norman Squires had garnered a lot of profits in this kind of sales, and they had working for them a woman named Brownie Wise. Right. And she was selling all kinds of stuff for Stanley Home Products, and they called it the hostess Group demonstration plan. And she was a great salesperson. Yeah. So these people at Stanley Home Products basically found Tupperware on their own and started selling it at these hostess parties. Right? Yeah. She formed her own company called Tupperware Patio Parties. Oh, did she? Yeah, before she was hired. Before she was hired. Wow. And she was selling so much of it that Earl Tupper got in touch with her and was like, I can't sell this stuff in stores. Like you're beating, like, department stores in New York City sales records. Yes. She really was. She had a lot of charm. She figured out that this burp thing that was so essential and made this product so revolutionary that it wasn't, like, intuitive. You didn't just understand how to work it, and so it wasn't helping sales. Which, again, seems weird today. Right. But back then, people are like, what is this weird colored thing? Right. Supposedly holds go together, and they're just banging them together in the aisle of a hardware store and crying. Yeah. She figured out that if you demonstrate this to people, especially in, like, somebody's house or whatever, and they've had a couple of martinis and there's a'yeah people are apt to buy these things and yeah, like you said, she started out selling department stores, hardware stores, obviously. And she got hired on by Earl Tupper. Yeah, she was in Detroit at the time. I think she'd moved down to Orlando when she was hired. Oh, really? By that point, yes. She was from Buford, Georgia, originally. Yeah, she was from rural Georgia and ended up being married and divorced, which was pretty unusual at the time. And she was a single mom. It's a little Jerry wise. That's right. Unfortunately, her husband was a violent drunk. I saw that, too. That's not saying that. That's PBS taking the fall for that one. Yeah. So she was only married to him for about six years and then was basically like, I'm going to make my own way. She only had an 8th grade education and she was killing it on the sales front. Yes, she really was. So, Chuck, before we get any further about Brownie Wise, great name, awesome name. Yeah. Maybe not a bad name, but a great name. The Browniewise would be a good name. Or the Brownie Wise Massacre. Yes, sure. There you go. Or brownie wise over drive. Yeah, both of those for one another. I guess the point that I'm trying to get to is let's take a break. Okay. So Brownie Wise has her Tupperware patio parties, company outselling, stores she gets hired on. They literally divide the company into two sides. The tupperware manufacturing up in Massachusetts and then tupperware home parties down in Orlando. Down in Orlando? Yeah, where she lives. Basically. Earl Tupper comes to her in 1951 and says, hey, how would you like to be one of three female high level executives in the United States? In the world? I would guess, yeah. And she said, sure, why not? I'll do you a favor. And I said she was a very interesting woman if I didn't. I did in my head and meant to say it, but there's apparently a movie coming out about her life starring Sandra Bullock. You did not say that. And I did see that. So there you go. I couldn't find any information on it except that I think it's in pre production right now. Oh, I see. I think it's going to happen, but yeah, I mean, she's one of the great woman entrepreneurs that this country has ever seen. The world has ever seen. Really? Yes, because she took this Tupperware, which everyone except the American public agreed was great, in 1947, the year that Tupper invented this stuff. Time named it this amazing thing. It won design awards. Yes. She was on the first woman on the cover of Business Week magazine. Right. But even before she came along, everybody, especially in the art world and the design world, said, this stuff is great, but it was just sitting there languishing. And then Brownie Wise comes along and just turns it into a blockbuster. Like turns it into an American iconic brand, which it still is today. Yeah. What she realized, which was a stroke of genius, was it's the 1950s. The suburbs are happening post World War II in a big way. There's a lot of women that are homemakers, right. I guess we could just say they were bored and looking for something to do. Well, plus, also they have very real constrictions on their time. Sure. Like they're basically freedom of movement. They didn't have cars, they didn't have things like this. They didn't have a lot of ways to make money. Yeah. And again, they were out in the suburbs for the first time. It's not like many of these were connected by subway or anything. That was still an inner city deal. Right. But rather than view these places as vast, like wastelands of isolation, brownie Wise said, no, these are like little tiny social networks where people know and trust one another and they're bored out of their skulls and they're looking for ways to make money. Not only do you have a really great market to sell this to, you have a really great workforce that's just sitting there idle. And she said, how would you gals like to sell Tupperware? And they went, let's do this. That's right. And what you did was came up with a system where and you could work your way up the chain from sales all the way up. Well, let's just detail it. Okay. What you are is your consultant at first, which is out there holding the parties, hosting these parties, which we'll talk about. Everybody's chill. Yeah. And then you can work your up to manager if you organize a certain number of parties. And then managers were eventually recruiting other women. So if you recruit enough women and increase sales, then you could rise to distributor. And that was the highest level you could attain at that point. Yes. You could be a distributor. You have your own office, you have your network of managers, and then they manage the consultants or the party throwers party hosts, and basically just started her own army of salespeople. Yeah. So Chuck Incentivize. Salespeople right now there are two 9 million people in the world selling Tupperware. Every 3 seconds, there's another Tupperware party. Yes, but we're getting ahead of ourselves, right? Yeah. So she put together this workforce. And again. It was this guy named Norman Squires who came up with this idea that led to it being a huge hit for Tupperware. But also later on. Avon and Mary Kay and Pampered Chef and all of these brands that are sold through hostess parties basically get you in our house. Get you drunk and sell you things when your resistance is loud. Just leave me a blank check. Yeah, basically. But it wasn't invented by Brownie Wise, but she definitely perfected it, for sure. So she tapped this workforce, and one of the ways that she kept people excited and loyal, not just the fact that they could rise throughout this hierarchy in the Tupperware industry, but there was also, like, this thing that she created called the Jubilee every year down in Orlando. It was a big company party. It was. And they would just pull out all the stops. Like, they would bury fur coats, they would bury blenders. One of the buyers once said that he bought 100,000 blenders once for this Jubilee. Wow. They would just bring all these Tupperware sales associates and just basically throw them a party for a few days and let them just win free stuff and have a great time. Yes. When you say bury, I think we should explain that sounds really weird. They would bury these prizes, and people would go and dig them up. Right. It wasn't like, you can't have this. Look at what you can't have. We're burying it. It just sounded funny. Like, they bury fur coats. They bury anything that moves. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. It was all part of the fun. Apparently. They lost a lot of them, too. Did they? Yeah. Years later, at the Tupperware headquarters in Orlando, they went to dig a pond, and they found a bunch of the prizes that had never been found. Yes. Some say there are still fur coats buried all over Orlando by the Illuminati. So those are the big Jubilee parties. The big company parties. Great for morale. The hostess themselves or the consultants percentage, they basically make a cut of what they were able to sell as well as get prizes, like these really neat prizes. And the more parties you hosted, the better the prizes would get. So it's like the Wild West. It's the heyday for these women. They're like earning their own money for a change. They're getting these great prizes. They're feeling great about themselves. They're not bored any longer, and their husbands are like, whoa, whoa. What's going on here? Yeah. Give me that money you made. Yeah, exactly. I'm the man. And things were so successful with this model. That was their only sales model up until the late 1980s. Right. You couldn't even buy the stuff in stores. No, he just stopped. It wasn't even worth the money or effort to distribute it to stores. They just did it through parties, in home parties. Right. Thank you. Brownie wise. All right, so like you said, in 1988, they started selling it through catalogs, I guess. Yeah, I think they have catalogs. I've seen older catalogs from the so I don't know what that means. Maybe over the phone. You saw Tupperware one. Yeah. Catalogs. Yeah, it's on the podcast page for this episode. There's a link to this kind of design layout, and it has some catalogs, so it must have been, like, ordered by phone. Phone? Oh, yeah, maybe so. And then just about ten years later, in 1999, pepper had their first website, which e commerce in 1999 does fairly forward thinking. Yeah. That's true. So this caught wildfire today. It's not just like an American institution. There are tupperware parties, like we said, at the rate of one every 3 seconds in more than 100 countries around the world. I had no idea that tupperware was that popular in, like, Asia and India. And they said half a million. More than half a million every year in France alone. Yes. 91% of tupperware sales are outside of the US. These days. Crazy. Yeah. And it's moving like gangbusters. Last I saw, I was trading at $63 a share, which is down from 100 in December, maybe. Oh, wow. It's a really set company again these days. Like, it's been able to just be on the brink of utter irrelevance when it finds a new market, when it figures out a new way to sell, when it figures out a new product. Like, currently, right now in China, tupperware is making tons of cash selling $1,000 water filter, and they're doing it by traveling from town to town and setting up these in home demonstrations or public demonstrations and showing how to do it. So they're like taking the tupperware model that brownie wise really perfected. Right. And figuring out how it best works in cultures around the world. Yes, I know. They make also, like, depending on your country and what they eat, like certain shaped containers. Right. Like round bread containers for naan in India. Yeah. How about that? So what happened to brownie wise? I guess she retired, was thanked, carried out on everyone's shoulders, and lived a great, fulfilled life until her death. Right. Well, we're going to tell you right after this break. All right, Josh, let's fast forward to the tupperware. Business is booming. Brownie wise is a bit of a celebrity to twist is going like gangbusters. Was it probably okay. People are still twisting the night away. Yeah, I mean, what was that, like, 1955? It probably started three years. Sure. There was some square still twisting. Yeah. They weren't doing the mashed potato yet. No, I think that was a little later. Okay, so business is booming. Brownie wise is killing it. She's a celebrity. Earl tupper starts to get a little jealous over the years. It's as simple as that. Yeah. As much as he didn't seek or want the limelight, he was still jealous that brownie wise people thought that she was tupperware and that she started the company and started selling. Like, I can sell anything like this. So she didn't say that. Well, no other person in the media said she could have done this with any brand. She's that great. Yeah, well, she could. And Earl tupper wanted to be like, well, no, I mean, my product that I invented is a big part of this, if not the thing I'm earl Tupper. Right. So he apparently also she stopped kind of cow towing to him quite as much, but it's great for a while. Yeah. And again, he had said to their PR department and to any media interviewer, like, yes, this lady is the face of Tupperware. Treat her as such, promoter, as such. And he just, like you said, ended up getting jealous, didn't like that she wasn't cows out into him any longer, and in 1958 said, you're fired. Yeah. The story I read was that he wanted to sell the company and cash in and that he didn't think and was advised that it would be really hard to sell a company with a woman in such a prominent position on the board. Oh, yeah. And so he, like you said, just unceremoniously get rid of her. Gave her one year salary. It's like 30, 350 stock in this neighborhood that she had built almost from the ground up. Yeah, or help build, at least. And I got to say that was her mistake. She should have gotten some stock along the way. Yeah, I guess so. She's too busy selling and exactly. She was imagine 35 grand a year was a pretty good salary at the point in 1958. If you want me to look it up, I will. You can. Okay. So she got that small payout. She went, and what he said to her was that there were some accounting errors in the previous year. She wouldn't come to Massachusetts to talk to him about it and sort of dug in. Says that she said that she had gotten sick or injured and couldn't leave Florida. He finally went down to Florida and basically said that these jubilees are too expensive. The landscaping you've done here in Florida, the company headquarters, is too expensive. You're spending too much money on clothes. And we own all that stuff. We own all your clothing. What? Well, I don't know if he actually took it, but he basically was like, she paid for all that stuff through the company I got you as she should have to keep up appearances. Sure. But, yeah, that was it for her. She started a small company called Cinderella Cosmetics that folded after a year and sort of faded into obscurity. Then Earl Tupper sold out the next year, I think. 16 million. Yeah, he sells out for $16 million. Nice. Cash to rectal drug company, which was eventually absorbed by Craft, who apparently now owns Tupperware. Oh, they do. I think maybe it's the parent company. Probably. And, yeah. 16 million in 1958. It's not too bad for a boy who couldn't get his parents to build a playground on the family. Pick your own whatever farm. Sure. Did you find out if she was 35 was a good salary? Yes. It wasn't bad. It was, like, 200 and I think $32,000 back then. Yeah. That's good. It's not bad, especially for a woman executive. Yeah, but he sold the whole thing for 16 million, gave her one year salary, moved to Costa Rica, bought an island, renounced his US. Citizenship so they didn't have to pay any taxes on it. Yeah. Got divorced. Yeah. Before all that. Right. And said, everybody, I'm going to Costa Rica to buy an island and keep a notepad in my pocket. So anytime an idea for a new invention hits, I'll have it. Yeah. And just, like, probably eight pineapples on his island. Yeah. He died in 1983 in Costa Rica. 76, and she died in tupperware has not gone out of fashion. It's been featured starting in what year was it? I guess when they first came out at the museum of modern art, and then again in 2011. I think I even saw this exhibit. In fact, I'm almost positive I did, because it was about just industrial design and things. And there's Tupperware all over again because of its gorgeous. Of course. Now, that 50s era retro design, how do you solve after the original line that Tupper released is called the millionaire line, and it came in six colors, five pastels and one white. Right. Yellow, blue, green, orange, and pink. And they're really pretty. Like, if you look at a set of these things in good condition, they're gorgeous. He went on to the plastics hall of fame, and now, like, the stuff from the can get some decent money on ebay for that stuff because it still works, and people love that retro look. Did you know that he refused to have any pet bowls designed? He thought it was tupperware is too good for pets to eat out of. What a jerk. See, I was all on board until that actually, I wasn't on board. I was off board when I found out that he fired brownie wise. Yes. And then was like, okay, I've got some money. See you later, family. Yeah. Moving to Costa Rica. Would you be funny if he went down and started a cult with this one guy? So Tupperware stayed pretty much the same until 1990, when a designer named Morrison Cousins basically kind of redesigned for the new era. He was already a VP, I guess, at Tupperware, and he decided that it was a little difficult. He had an 82 or 81 year old mother at the time 87 year old mother at the time when he was charged with redesigning the Tupperware line. And from that viewpoint, he redesigned it to make it easier for the agents to use. Right. So, like that burping lid that you had to really kind of have some decent hands strengths to put on. Sure. He figured out a way around it by using flaps that opened and closed to release the air. Didn't require quite as much hands strength. The lids were made in contrast and color to the bowls. So if you have low visibility, low vision, not visibility, that's totally different. If you were wearing all camouflage at the time, you'd be able to find the lid and the bowl that go together pretty easy. Yeah. So he made it easier for old folks. Yes. And he was the guy who brought it online. He did a lot of good stuff, apparently, with it. He also took the brand. I thought this was cool, and I would love to see this on video because I'll bet it's just so bizarre and surreal to watch. They broadcast a series of live Tupperware parties on some home shopping channel in the early 90s. That was probably the first home shopping experience. I think those were around in the think home shopping was already established. Oh, no. When did they do this? Early. Ninety s oh, I thought you said he did it, like, in the 60s. No. Got you. No, we should do one on home shopping. I'll bet that has an interesting weird history. You think? I'll look into it. I'll let you know. My mom's into it, man. QVC. So, did we talk about how to throw a Tupperware party? Yeah, we did. We sure did. Okay. Did we talk about temporary drag parties? We did not. We should. Yeah, because there's more than one. Yeah. Well, there's one person in particular, a guy named Chris Anderson, who performs in drag as Dixie Long Gate and sells, like, a million dollars worth of tupperware in the process. He gets paid to perform. Like, you got to pay $40 just to a person just to have I guess he still does house parties, but he literally does, like, tours and does offbroadway shows and stuff now. Right, but the whole thing is a real Tupperware party where you can buy tupperware and he's demonstrating the tupperware, and he's kind of giving his own take on what it's useful for. But he's not the only drag show in the country selling tupperware. Of course not. Apparently, a drag queen named Aunt Barbara up in Long Island was, at least in 2012, the number one salesperson in North America for Tupperware. It all makes sense when you think about it. So 250 grand worth of Tupperware in one year. Like, the kitchen of the drag show, the kitchen of Tupperware parties, it all sort of goes hand in hand. Yes, it does. And I went through the website of Dixie Long Gate, and he has a pretty interesting bio. I have three kids winona Dwayne and absorbean Jr. It's all made up, I think. I think maybe. Although you never know. But, yeah. Now he has solo stand up shows and a recent theatrical show called Never Wear a Tube Top While Riding a Mechanical Bowl and 16 other things I learned while I was drinking last Thursday. And apparently that is selling out venues. That's selling out venues. We're not, but that is don't be bitter. We will one day. If we did it in drag, we'd probably well, no, that's not true either. One day. Chuck yeah. That's a weird way to end this. I think it's perfect. I thought I had something else, but I guess I don't. Yes, I do. PBS did a great documentary called tupperware with an exclamation point. It's got a whole website online, and you can watch parts of the documentary, if not the whole thing. Yeah, look for the Sandra Bullock the brownie wise story. Coming to a theater near you in a couple of years. Nice job. You said a theater near you. A theater you just said coming to a theater near you. Yeah. That's like wow. Did you ever think you would grow up to say that in public? Sure. Okay. Well, if you want to know more about tupperware, you can type that one word in the search barhouseofworks.com. And since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. We call this the streisand effect. You ever heard of this? No. Hello, josh, jack and Jerry really enjoyed the podcast on internet censorship, although I was disturbed that SOP 303 exists. Sure. One thing not mentioned that I thought was relevant is when individuals attempt to censor specific things from their own life and the resulting fallout that occurs. In 2003, I and remember this happening actually. A picture of Barbara streisand's home in Malibu appeared in a publicly available collection of over 12,000 photos of California coastline. The collection was documenting coastal erosion and not related to news, paparazzi, or tabloids or anything like that, but streisand's lawyers filed a $50 million lawsuit against the photographer, asking the picture to be taken down for privacy reasons before stories of the lawsuit hit the press. The photo of the home had only been downloaded six times, two of which were by her attorneys. During the following month, after the whole thing became a news story, more than 400,000 people visited the website. They even coined the term the streisand effect, where an attempt to it really got out of hand for her. Yeah, I did. I remember this blew up in her face. An attempt at censoring or removing something from the Internet results in setting being seen and reported on much more than if the person requesting it be removed had simply let it fade into obscurity. Thanks for the podcast. Also, possibly a shout out to my wife Emily, who is nearly as addicted to stuff you should know as I am. Nearly. And that is from Brenton krause in mid Hudson valley, New York, USA. So Emily and get on it so you're equally as addicted. And thank you, Brenton, for being fully addicted to the brim. I guess if you want to get in touch with us and talk to us about tupperware or whatever, you can tweet to us right at syskpodcast. Yeah, josh is manning that station. You can go on to our awesome facebook page courtesy of Chuckers man, that station facebook. Comstepyshedenow. You can send us an email. We both get those. They come direct to us. They sure do. To stuffpodcast@howstuffworks.com and hang out with us at our home on the web. ##yshoto com for more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseofworks.com." | ||
How Motion Sickness Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-motion-sickness-works | Motion sickness is the worst and hits about 25 to 40 percent of humans when they ride in cars, boats, or simply watch the wrong 3-D movie. Join us as we break down the science behind this nausea-inducing affliction. | Motion sickness is the worst and hits about 25 to 40 percent of humans when they ride in cars, boats, or simply watch the wrong 3-D movie. Join us as we break down the science behind this nausea-inducing affliction. | Tue, 07 Jun 2016 17:29:33 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2016, tm_mon=6, tm_mday=7, tm_hour=17, tm_min=29, tm_sec=33, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=159, tm_isdst=0) | 35327659 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Joshua Clark. There's Charles W, Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's over there and speaking, looking in a monotone kind of hey, dude. Hey. How's it going? It's going well. I'm not motion sick, so things are fine. Do you get motion sick? Sometimes. I mean, if the conditions are right. I was really surprised to find that not everybody gets motion sick. What are your conditions? Poor ventilation and lots of movement. Back seat of a car. Okay. But anytime I read in a car, even, like, glancing at my phone on a map, really, if I have to read anything, it gets me very quick. So I've just learned, like, I can't do it. I cannot do it. So I don't I get it a little bit, too. I used to get it more, I think, when I was younger. Supposedly it's normal. Supposedly it is. But I remember a very specific story that my brother still laughs at. And by the way, boy, I'm glad I said that. I owe my brother, my big brother a big apology because I saw him over the weekend and he said, oh, by the way, I was just an old episode. And he said, you'd never been a best man. I was the best man at my brother's wedding. Ouch, man. I felt like a jerk, man. Scott, I'm sorry. I know. And what happened was when I said I hadn't, I just quickly scanned through my friends that have gotten married, and I didn't think about my brother, and I was his best man. What a jerk. Well, it's rectified now. Well, I told him I was like, you're going to get a public apology. So there it is. That's pretty public. Yeah, it's public as it gets. You could have also started a Squarespace website if you want. It would have been really easy. I might do that. So anyway, there's this old story when we went to Disney, which is the one where Body Wars is at. Should have asked Holly from stuff you missed in history class. No. She probably senses that someone's talking about Disney right now. Body wars either was or still is. I don't know if it's still there one of those rides that you sit in. It's one of those first sort of virtual things where they show you a movie and then they move the car. Like the Amazing Voyage or something, wasn't it? Yeah. You went inside a human body, and we're traveling around. I want to say Disney World, but I can't remember, so I went in that. And you grew up in Atlanta. I'm guessing you went to Disney World. Well, it definitely was a Disneyland, but I don't know if it was Epcot or Universal Studio. I guess it was in Orlando. So from what I understand, we have a buddy who works for Disney, and he set me straight on this before, and I think I've got it. So Disney World is all of those. The Magic Kingdom is what you're specifying. So Disney World includes Epcot and Universal Studios, if I'm not mistaken. I really hope I'm not mistaken. The Magic Kingdom is specifically the one with the castle, right? If I did get that wrong, Brandon, I apologize. It's one with the castle. All the weird adults that think they're children, like Holly from stuff. You're missing his request. So body wars. Anyway, you're traveling through the body, and I remember at one point, I was like, man, it's getting hot in here. And Scott's like, this is great. And I was like, I'm not feeling so good. Man, do they have the heat going? It's like, what are you talking about? It feels great. And I didn't vomit, but I got really sick and made it through the ride and left. And he still teases me to this day. He was like, it was temperature, air controlled, and you thought it was, like, 90 deg, and they were, like, pumping in heat. It's funny it got to you like that. Like your own body cold sweats. Wow. Yeah, that's bad. But generally you actually did puke. No, I did not puke. Oh, you didn't? But generally it takes a certain thing, like a really hardcore roller coaster going in fast circles. But I don't get sick on planes. Or the one cruise I went on. I didn't get sick. Yeah, I've gotten sick before, like, on vacation. But it's usually fairly fleeting. It's when I introduce reading that it's like, you're in big trouble for a long time. You can read on a plane, though. I can? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Now that I think about it, it's reading in a car. I just got to stay away from that. But usually it does come about with, like, poor ventilation, that kind of thing. Yes. Which is another trigger. It's a big one. Or like a rough odor or something like that. I'm sure all those things don't help. The thing is, for as much as we kind of commonly understand motion sickness, science really doesn't have a full explanation for it. I'm picturing little Josh because riding backwards is bad and like, a rumble seat in a station wagon in a Subaru Brat with, like, your dad has salami socks on or something. That stinks. What, like the windows are rolled up? I don't know. I was just trying to think of something gross. Salami socks? Like, socks made of salami? Sure. Like, wouldn't that smell gross? He's wearing the skin of another person. Well, no, I was thinking salami smelled like old salami, but made of salamis. Even better. Right? I think I'm just picturing you back there, like, reading your Mad magazine, feeling bad. Yeah. I do remember being a kid and figuring out I can't read in cars. There was a period where I could, which is kind of surprising, because when you're younger, you're more susceptible to motion sickness, but I could read in the car while I was younger. And then probably around the time of puberty, I was like, can't do this anymore. So you went opposite. Weird. Yeah. Well, maybe you developed your hips, because that's a tease. We'll just leave that out there. All right, so 25% to 40% of people supposedly are susceptible to motion sickness. So weird. And it can happen on planes. It can happen. It's weird. This one University of Maryland site I went to said the following are the most common risk factors riding in a car, boat, airplane or space shuttle. Really? Yeah. Nerds. Just like they didn't even put amusement park ride. It just went straight to space shuttle. You know, one that I hadn't seen before. But apparently the thing is, I'm looking through a microscope. Yeah, that makes a little bit of sense, though. Yeah. Because the slide can move and your eyes are seeing movement, but you're not moving, and I don't get to you another nerdy. Motion sickness, space shuttles and microscope. So, like you said, age between two and twelve, you're more likely and then you're also more likely to grow out of it after puberty. And one of the reasons that women are more motion sickness than men or get motion sickness more than men, is because one of the theories is that after puberty, they develop more in the hips, men develop more in the chest. And I guess that makes a difference. They didn't really explain why, though, did they? Well, it all has to do with sway theory, which will tell you oh, that's right, sway theory. Yeah. But it is true that women are more susceptible, just on average, to motion sickness than men are. Yeah. Apparently also Asian women. Well, Asian, period, because Penn State did a study and they put people in situations that make emotion sick or not. Did you look into those? Is it like a Tilta world? Dude, if you went in for just a clinical study, like, I'm going to make some scratch, or maybe they'll give me a cool drug or something, and it turns out to be a motion sickness study, you should leave. No, I totally was. So there's this thing called a optic kinetic drum, I believe is what it's called. Oh, I did see that. Yeah, I can handle that. It's like a drum, like a big drum that you sit inside of, and it's got vertical black and white painted stripes and it spins around. You crazy. And the motion, the movement is really emphasized. It's designed to make anybody motion sick, and that's how they induce motion sickness. And I saw another one where they use a chair that just kind of moves you around whether you like it or not. And it induces motion sickness. Like, what a terrible thing to have happened to you, man. There was a ride at Six Flags Over Georgia growing up that they got rid of because someone got hurt, supposedly where it's this barrel that you all get in. You stand it's like, kind of below ground. You stand against the wall. I love those. And it spins so fast. Then they drop the floor beneath you and the centrifugal force holds you against the wall. It's like a spin cycle in a washing machine. You mean? I was just talking about that the other day. Was awful. That was my favorite of all time. Really? I just thought it was so cool. Well, the old story was that someone's leg got trapped when the floor came back up. But I remember hearing that now that I look back, because I'm sure that was an old wives tale. Although I was on Snopes the other day and I was reading an early article and they were talking about the urban legend about some girl who got scalped because her hair got caught in an amusement park ride or something. It actually happened. Really? Yeah. The girl's ponytail got caught in there and just got pulled right off of her head. I know. But it actually did happen. So it's possible someone's leg got sucked into the tilted world. Well, but then what happens is it happened to every amusement park. Right. And it happened to my cousin's friend. Right. All right. So the Penn State study, they put people in these torture machines. And interestingly, they did confirm 80% of Asian people got sick when it was less than 50% for Caucasian and non Caucasian, which is really crazy. But it kind of underscores a growing awareness among motion sickness researchers, aka. The evil ones, that genetics play a big role in susceptibility to motion sickness. Well, yeah, because here were another couple of findings that led to that. Twins. They study 200 sets of identical twins, and 100% of the identical twins were both affected. Really? Yeah. And some of that they can't prove that it's genetics because it also could be just where they were raised and how they were raised. What's that called? Nurture environmental. And if parents are both susceptible to motion sickness, they found that their children are five times more likely. So it sort of points to genetics. But then other things point away from genetics. Like, why would two people in the same family and the same conditions not get sick? Or why did two people, period, not get sick? Right. Under the same conditions? Yeah, I guess what I'm saying same salami sock smell, same backwards facing seat. Yes. I guess what I'm saying is they haven't figured it out. No, they haven't. But if we do figure out that it's genetic, thanks to the magic of the CRISPR CAS nine gene editing process yes. We're able to knock that right out for you. What else? Pregnant. Yeah. Pregnant women are more susceptible to it. Women who are menstruating, I think, also are. And people who get migraines are more susceptible. And then people who sleep poorly are more susceptible to mushroom sickness. Yeah. It says if you're prone to nausea or vomiting, but I don't know if that's like sort of a chicken or the egg thing. Yeah. We're going to get into again, we said science doesn't understand exactly what's going on here, but there's some good theories. We're going to talk about them right after this. So, Chuck? Yeah. Let's talk about some theories for motion sickness, because it's kind of two. Yeah. I think it was this Atlantic article you sent. It's not so much science, it's a debate over the, likelier, explanation. But they actually kind of fit together, I think so, yeah. But if you ask the people, apparently the author in The Atlantic, it's called the Mysterious Science of Motion Sickness. He sort of poked fun a little bit. He's like, to me, they sound sort of the same, but don't tell that to those people who believe one or the other because they're like, no, they're nothing like each other. Yeah. She Julie Beck. Oh, is that who it was? All right. Nice job, Julie. Good article. Pat on the back for you. Cold star. So here's the first one and this one. They both make a lot of sense to me. Basically, there's a dissonance between the parts of your body that sense motion. Right. That's the easiest way to say it. It's called the sensory conflict theory. Yeah. You got your eyeballs. Yeah. It senses motion. It's weird if you think about your eyes doing that. But that's one of the roles that they play, motion. Right, sure. You also have the vestibular system, which is centered around your inner ear, and that definitely senses motion, movement, acceleration, gravity. And then you have all the sensors and, like your muscles and joints and stuff. Right? Yeah. I didn't really think about that as being one, but for sure. Yeah. Like, your body actually feels it. Yeah. Well, think about it. You if feel yourself kind of moving backward, you're definitely sensing it through your inner ear, but you can also feel it in your feet as well. And they're sending a bulletin to your brain saying, lean forward, dummy. You're going to fall back. That's your problem, friend. Yeah. So this dissonance occurs when basically, like, let's say you're sitting in a movie theater like an IMAX, and it's a scene where you're flying with Superman or something. Like you're seeing this with your eyeballs, like a first person perspective shot of flight. Right. But you're sitting in your seat, so your eyes are saying you're flying and your butt is going. You're sitting here and your brain's like a witch. Yeah, pretty much. Witchcraft. So it creates motion sickness. That's when the nausea might kick in, dizziness those cold sweats salivation. I like how the author of the House of Works article pointed out she specifically mentioned Avatar yes. Who is the dude? The guy who is like, the friend on the flight of the concords? Mary no, the other dude. The guy who worked in the pond. Yeah, man. What is his name? It's not Archbishop, is it? Arge Parker? Yes, it was. I always want to call him Boslerman. I know. It's definitely not the same dude. Great comedian. Arge Parker, you mean. I went to go see him. He did some stand up, right? And he was talking about Avatar and he said when it first came out, people were like, oh, Avatar. Have you seen Avatar? Yeah. Great. And then everything you heard was, have you seen Avatar? You got to see Avatar. It said, like, after a couple of weeks, you'd just be walking down the sidewalk and people would pull up alongside you in the car and roll down the window and go, Avatar. And this is, I think, a great example of that. Well, it's interesting. I posted an article on Facebook not too long ago on the Stuff You Should Know page about. This person wrote an article about Avatar, and their argument was that for such a huge movie, it had zero cultural impact. It was big at the time, but does anyone care now? It's not like the Star Wars world or Star Trek or all these things. And I totally agreed. I saw Avatar once and I was like, I'm done with it. Typical James Cameron schlock. I've seen it zero times. That sucks. But dude, there are Avatar people, though. I know. That piled on and we're like, I have no idea what he's talking about. It's totally relevant. Oh, I'm sure they're going to be all over our Facebook page after this episode comes out. I hate Chuck forever. Now, I like some of James Cameron's stuff, but if he wrote the script, then I'm not going to like it. No, I know what you mean. I think he's a hack writer. Did I just say that to hundreds of thousands of people? Yes, and I'm sure James Cameron cares what you think. He's at the bottom of the Mariana Trench right now. He's not listening to stuff. He's picking out my future burial site. So, Chuck, we were talking about the sensory conflict theory, right? Yes. That's one big explanation. And it definitely kind of makes sense, right? Your brain just basically gets overloaded and it's like, oh, I need to sit down. I've got the vapors, right? Yeah. I'm doing a lot of bad impressions in this episode. Who is it supposed to be? Somebody fainting in the late 19th century. Oh, no, it's great. So it was your archbarker, a FOP. That's what it was. It was A. FOP. The Dandy FOP. There's another competing idea, and that is we kind of talked about it's called Sway theory. Yeah. And there's a dude. Tom Thomas Staffordgen. I'm going to Jinjin Stafforden University. University of Minnesota. Professor of Kinesiology. And listen to this. He's the director of its affordance perception action laboratory. Nerd. He gets a motion sickness looking through microscopes. So he proposes the sway theory, which basically has nothing to do with the ventilar system. I don't necessarily agree with that, but okay. Agree that he thinks that. No, I know that he thinks that. I don't agree with his take on that. Agree. I think it's still tied together. But his theory is, and this first part is the theory, it's true, is that everyone sways. Unless you're one of those people that stand like motionless in the middle of New Orleans for money, silver or something like that. Yeah, they're good at it. But if you're just a regular dope like you and I, when we stand there, we're going to be moving in a little bit. Yeah. You'll be swaying a little bit. It's weird. Like if you stop and really pay attention to it, you notice it, but you'll never notice it unless you are focused on it. Yeah. You're always moving a little bit. Yeah. Swaying. If you're standing up, you're swaying. For the most part, yes. And the point he makes is if everyone truly relaxed, every muscle in their body, they'd fall over. Right. So the whole point, the whole thing is swaying is it's the byproduct of us standing upright, which is not something we've been doing for all of the time we've been on Earth, because we evolved from things that walked on four legs. Standing up is kind of new. Well, sure. And babies don't stand up. Right. They have to learn as well. Yeah, exactly. So stop. Vin's whole idea is that motion sickness comes about when you're exposed to movement that contradicts the natural swaying that you've learned to do, to stand upright. Right. And it undermines it and your brain goes which makes sense in a way because let's say you're on a boat and the boat's tilting to the left and so what your feet do, or they account for that. And maybe you lean in on the inside of your foot and your toes flex right. Because you want to make yourself more upright again. And then the boat turns again in a direction you're not expecting. You're correcting for that first move. The second move happens and your body doesn't know what to do. So here's the thing. The sensory conflict one makes a little more sense to me than this one because that sounds to me like if that were the case, if that's what's going on and it clearly is like when you get your sea legs or whatever, you are moving along, you're trying to stay standing under these weird conditions. Right. Why would that translate into something like dizziness or nausea or vomiting or cold sweats? That doesn't make sense to me. Sensory sounds like I can see translating into it, but even beyond that, a lot of people are like, no, still, it doesn't make sense why you would vomit. And this one guy named Michael Treesman in 1977 came up with a pretty awesome explanation for why we should get nauseated when we get motion sick. Right. Well, yeah. Should we take a break and talk about that? Oh, sure. All right. Josh michael treesman in the journal of science. What did he say? He said that we get nauseated from motion sickness because there are some toxins out there that can mess with our vestibular system. Right? Yes. So the body is tricked into thinking that it's possibly been exposed to some sort of toxin because the vestibular system is out of whack from motion sickness. So it gets nauseated and ultimately might vomit as a reflex to get rid of whatever toxin it thinks has been ingested. It's basically a case of mistaken identity. I think it explained it perfectly. Yeah, it makes sense to me. I can see it a little bit. I think what stafford is saying is that you're used to regaining your balance. You spend your entire life learning this system and that if it's thrown off, what he doesn't do is connect it. I believe you're right. He doesn't connect it in the end to, like, something that happens in your brain. Right. Why? The physiological reaction. Yes. Agreed. Yeah. But he does have some pretty good evidence backing his idea of sway theory up, though. So again, women are more susceptible to motion sickness than men, right? Yes. That's what they say. Well, he says, AHA, well, soy theory explains this. Kids are equally susceptible to both genders are equally susceptible to motion sickness before puberty. Right. Then after puberty, the bodies change. And where women and men hold most of their weight is different. Right. Women hold it mostly around their hips. Men hold it more around their chest. And that means that the center of gravity is different, which means the amount that we sway is different. Right. Yeah. I think who. Did he say sways? Women sway farther but slower. But slower. Men sway faster but within a tighter area. Right. And these are micro sways. Yeah. I mean, I think most people move no more than an inch to any given side. And even then you're like barney on the simpsons when he walked out for that bachelor auction. Yeah. Then there's also landsickness, which is interesting. Yeah. I didn't look too much into it, but I have heard of it, which is basically the concept that if you're a sailor, then you've gotten or just somebody who's been on boats enough. You don't have to be professional. You get your sea legs so well that you get land sickness. Yes. When you get back and you're on solid ground, you're like, I don't know what to do. Right. Because your brain is so used to things moving that it perceives that it's moving even though it's not. You want to say the french name for it. Maldives barkmont. Let me look. I wasn't even looking. That was out of it. You forgot the middle part. What did you say? There's A-Q-U-E in the middle. So maybe Maldives de bark cumin. I said meld de bark mall. Meld de bark ball. Barcu mon. Yeah. Barbecue mall. I love it when we do this stuff. It's probably literally 50% people laughing and 50% people want to kill us. Yeah, a lot of people want to kill us. I can live with that as long as they never do. All right, so should we go over some things that you can do to prevent it? Yeah, because that whole segment on what explains motion sickness is kind of petered out. But that's the state of science right now. Yes. Although I will say they have looked at the 23 and me for the genetic side and have found some support for both claims. I think that they're together. I do too. Yes. Your swaying system is set up in a certain way. And why can't that be a component that, along with the vestibular system and your site and all that, is affected and creates motion sickness? I just don't understand why it has to be one or the other. That is the impression that I had. He was trying to really come and get across. Is that no, it's his own thing. Yeah. I think that's weird. So where do you go to if you get motion sick? Well, they say to keep your eyes on the horizon, whether you're in a car or a boat or whatever. That will help cuts down on motion. Right. Or the sensation of motion. I'm not sure. I think so, because think about it, when you look at stuff that's close to the car, it's blurring by. It's going fast. The horizon sting. Yeah. Constant. Look at you. Keep your head still so you can lay down if you're able to somewhere. Or at least put your head back against the seat. Just sort of keep it as still as possible. Don't smoke. Sure. Good advice all around. Exactly. If you're going to fly, they say to avoid big greasy meals and alcohol the night before and eat light meals or snacks low in calories the day of. But yeah. You do want to have something in your stomach, though, because that's just going to help. Empty stomach no good. Right. Turn that air vent. Whether you're in a car or a plane or a boat, you want some fresh air blowing on your face, ideally, or at least recycled air. I haven't felt this bad since I didn't need a branch. Sit in the front of the airplane or over a wing, supposedly. Yes, the rear of the airplane. Can you tell the difference? Oh, man. Really? You just get whipped around back and forth. It's way worse if you get motion sick. You should never sit behind the wings of the airplane. See? I love the last car of a roller coaster, though. Well, you're feeling it more, you're enjoying it more. You don't get motion sick. What else? Avoid salty foods before you travel, there's also remedies, too, right? Yeah, it juries out on whether ginger actually helps or not or if it's just a placebo effect. Ginger, peppermint and black horehound apparently are some of the herbs that may or may not work. Who knows? I can tell you firsthand, and I looked it up. C bands, acupressure bracelets that go on your wrist, three fingers width down from the heel of your palm. The pericardium six. What is the acupuncture point? I saw research that showed that neither placebo nor acupressure bands had any effect on motion sickness. I can tell you that. Even if it is just placebo, they still work first hand. They work. All right. Even if it's placebo. I don't care. That's fine, I got it. As long as it keeps me from being motion sick. Yes, it kept me and you me from being motion sick on an entire cruise. But would you have been motion sick without it? Yeah, because we didn't use it for one day and we felt it immediately. Got you. Yeah, I brought one on my only cruise that I went to, and I don't think I wore it because I didn't need to. We had, like, divots on our wrist because we just had them on the whole time. Yeah, you should bring it just in case. Yeah, sure. We also had scopalamine and we didn't even use it because the C bands work so well. Dramamine. Is that the same thing or no, different? No, scopalamine is that stuff that they drug people with and then it's like remember in our truth serum episode we talked about scope limit? Yeah. It's like a drug in South America where they'll dose you with it and then you end up just basically becoming zombified and don't remember anything. It's the same stuff, but it doles the messages from your inner ear to your brain. So your sensation of motion has decreased. Nice homeopathy. There haven't been a ton of studies about the effectiveness of specific remedies, but they do say things like Borax Calculus, Petroleum CPIA Tabacum. We're going to hear from so many people just for having even uttered the word homeopathy. I say it homeopathy. No, it goes both ways. Okay. Yeah, I know. Nothing drives people more crazy than that. I know they're going to go berserk, mark my word, because it's not. Well, I said that take it or leave it. Basically. Some people swear by it. Yeah, and some people think it's. From what I have ever seen, it's like the biggest flash point of anything of anything that skeptics talk about. Nothing drives them crazier than homeopathy. Yeah, like make some nuts. It's kind of funny to watch. It does, because then people say you shouldn't even say Western versus Eastern medicine. You should say proven science versus, like, witchcraft. Did the people say that on Facebook? Yeah, they get really, like, you shouldn't even say don't even say it. I said, you can't. Say it. Don't even say it. Josh, what else? Yeah, I'm making fun of you. Mind body medicine, biofeedback training and relaxation. They did a study of 55 pilots who had to stop flying due to motion sickness, which, by the way, I didn't know that frightens me, just knowing that that a pilot can get motion sickness. But think about it, for the pilot, that's like career ending. Oh, I'm sure. 76% of them got over their motion sickness and were able to return to work after biofeedback training and relaxation programs. So basically they sit in that Tilt a Whirl, bring it on, and then biofeedback instruments record temperature, muscle tension, and they use relaxation techniques and mental imagery in the chair. And over time, it's sort of like cognitive behavioral therapy, which is another thing that they use, which is like, get in the chair and do it until it doesn't affect your exposure therapy. Right. Yeah. There's this guy named Sam Puma who's a physician and aeronautics engineer. I think maybe at the very least he's worked in the aerospace industry for a really long time, and he has come up with some habituation exercises where basically you kind of mildly expose your body to the kind of movements it's going to expect on like, a space shuttle or whatever ahead of your trip. And he says you can be prepared and not have any motion sickness in as little as a week. Yeah. And I guess it checks out. Yeah, because it sounds like, come on, what's this guy selling me? Right? But then The Atlantic author, she said, no, apparently it's a real thing. And then another good tip that I saw was if you're in a car and you're not driving, pretend like you're driving. You might feel silly, but pretend like you're driving. Maybe even do your hands and anticipate the curbs and things. Yeah. Maybe give them a little horn, a little imaginary horn once in a while. Yeah. The reason why the best seat in the car is the drivers, because you can anticipate the movements the cars going to make. Which supports Sway theory, if you think about it. True, because you can counteract it. Do you ever have one of those passengers in your car that hits the fake brake because they're nervous? Sure. It's like just an involuntary action. You see them stomp their foot on the floorboard. Right. It's pretty funny. I have one friend in particular that does that. Oh, yeah. Let's see. I guess that's it, right? I got nothing else. If you want to learn more about motion sickness, you can type those words in the search BARHOW stuffworks.com. And since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this bonsai tutu. Hey, guys. Love the show. I'm a tutu maker. Who knew? But you know, somebody makes them. Sure. They don't just grow on trees. Not anymore. I'm a tutu maker and work alone in my studio a lot making tutus. You guys are my company, and thank you for that. I also have a Bachelor of Science in ornamental horticulture, so listening to the bonsai episode reminded me of an experience I had with a bonsai master in a class I had in college. The professor covered the art of bonsai leading up to this man's visit. He covered the art meticulous decisions made in the shaping of the tree, et cetera. The day came when the master was there to speak with us. We came to class, and all of his amazing work was displayed around the classroom. It was really beautiful. Everyone sort of spoke about it in Hushtones, very reverent to each other. Finally, the master, who was a rather tiny Japanese man, was ready to demonstrate the technique for us. He unpotted the plant in front of him, spoke about the shape and what he felt would be the best way to train it. And after this, he pulled out a club the size of a baseball bat and beat the crap out of the root ball, explaining the need to control the plant. And no one knew exactly how to react. I had not thought about that for a really long time, and I listened to the show Chuckling the whole time because of it. I thought you might appreciate the story that is from Nancy Gallagher, the tutu maker. Well, thanks a lot, Nancy. Maybe he was trying to get the dirt away from the roots. I don't know. Or maybe it was he was just messing with them. Bad bonsai. Mr. Miyagi would never do that. I worked with Pat Marita. Did I mention that on the show? No. Was it he did a music video that I worked on. A Karate Kid spoof. Oh, yeah. Alien Ant Farm. And I worked with him and he was super nice, and it was just a couple of years before he died. He's dead? Oh, yeah. That's a shame. Yeah. He likes the white wine. Oh, yeah. I think he told me a story before. It sounds familiar. I had to go fetching some chardonnay, like, noon. I was like, you know what? If that was Fat Marita on the set of the music video? Sure. I'd be like, I'd have a PA fetch meson chardonnay, too. Yeah. Remember he played Al, the replacement Al on happy days. Arnold Al was the name of the actor from California. Is that Marita? What does that have to do with it? Nothing. Oh, that was an additional fact. Yeah. I mean, some people might see The Karate Kid, and I only know that and think he's from Japan. Right. But he's putting on that accent. Oh, yeah, he's a California dude. Totally. Yeah, like laid back kind of chardonnay guy. If you want to know more about Pat Morita or get in touch with us or whatever, you can send off for more info to SYSK podcast on Twitter or on Instagram. You can join us on Facebook. Comstepyshow. You can send us an email to stuffpodcastworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web stuffyshow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseworks.com. Summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good it's criminal. Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, Morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Ercart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this charttopping series will have you hooked before you know it. Listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | ||
20c40e52-121b-11eb-85ed-ab559d73fb74 | Short Stuff: Necco | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/short-stuff-necco | If you think Necco Wafers are the most disgusting candy on the planet, you are not alone. But it turns out there’s a rich history behind those chalky discs that make them fascinating, if horrible. | If you think Necco Wafers are the most disgusting candy on the planet, you are not alone. But it turns out there’s a rich history behind those chalky discs that make them fascinating, if horrible. | Wed, 20 Jan 2021 10:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2021, tm_mon=1, tm_mday=20, tm_hour=10, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=2, tm_yday=20, tm_isdst=0) | 11992954 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. And this is Necco Wafers. Short stuff on necco wafers. The wafers from Necco. Go ahead and ask your questions in Chuck. Have you ever thought about putting a neck away for in your mouth? Oh, boy, that was good. Good drama. I've never had one of these. I haven't either. I've gone my whole life. Really? Oh, yeah. No. Can we pledge to never have them? Or now do you want to? I don't know. It could go either way. That's a really good question. I could see going your whole life getting that engraved on your tombstone. It never had an echo away from it. So what we're talking about is a candy. It's referenced pretty prominently in some movie in a line, and I could not think of what it was, which really bugged me. But that's sort of where I even heard of NECCA Wafers was, I think, just through pop culture. It's not something not only have I not had one, I don't know anyone who's ever had one. Like, I've never been with someone who was just chowing on Necco Wafers or had a family member that was an echo enthusiast. No, I don't mean to be ageist, but it's typically viewed as kind of like a grandma candy. Like saltwater taffy, even though I know you love that. Oh, dude, it's so good. Saltwater taffy is just so good when it's done right. I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying it's a bit of a grandma candy. Sure, I'm with you. Our grandma's, god rest their souls. Exactly right. But no, it has just kind of that whole doily kind of aura around it. You know what I'm saying? Sure. I think when you buy NECA Wafers, it comes with the doily. It does. You just unroll the wax packaging. So if you've not seen this, you probably have. If you don't know what we're talking about, you probably have seen it. It comes in like a kind of a wax paper roll tube. Tube. And then the wafers themselves are a little bigger than the size of a quarter, maybe. And they're dusty, chalky, weirdly colored. Two of the colors are brown and gray. Color? No, not at all. But they're like a multicolored roll of this chalky, dusty, multiflavored candy. They're not complimentary flavors either. It's a mess. Neck oafers are a big, giant mess. I'm just going to say it. They're 170 year old mess. Yeah, I guess we'll just go ahead and mention those flavors. You've got the lemon yellows, the lime greens, the orange orange, light purple is clove. Do not ever get one of those near my mouth. Okay. Cinnamon is white, little weird. Winter green is pink. Also weird licorice is dark gray. And then there's a chocolate flavor, which is brown. And I guarantee you it does not taste like chocolate. No, you can look at Necco Wafers and be like, I know what that's going to taste like and I'm not going to like it. Yeah, I agree. But you and I have had basically necco wafers because the Necco company, we should say the name is kind of an acronym. It stands for New England Candy Company. Right. They also are the makers of conversation hearts that say, be mine, I'm yours. Those are differently shaped, neck away first. It's the same exact thing. So those things, when you've tried them before and been like, these are absolutely horrible. You would think the same thing about Necco wafers. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So Necco wafers just a thinner sort of coin like version of those? Yes. That don't say something like be mine or I'm yours. Apparently the ones these days say, email me or grab a glass of water. Right. This is going to be terrible. All right, let's take a break here. We'll talk a little bit more about where these started and why they're still around right after this. All right? If we got back in the way back machine and went back to one, we would see Necco wafers being cranked out from the New England Candy Company, even though apparently they were around since 1847. I didn't quite get that. Yeah, one of the cofounders of New England candy Company invented this lozenge machine, the machine that basically popped out these little wafers. And one of the first things they did was use it to make Necco wafers. So Necco wafers actually predate Necco itself, and they used to be called hub wafers. And Hub was like an old timing name, like slang term for Boston. So they were Boston wafers originally, but they predate the company that made them famous, and they predate virtually every popular candy that we know of. I think Hershey bar officially came out one year prior, but every other sort of candy bar that, you know, love came around the 1920s and 30s, as far as the classics go, eminem's in the 1940s. But the Necco wafer in they pack it in soldiers rations in the Civil War, which should be your first stay far away from this candy in 2021 sort of warning like if they put it in civil war rations, you probably don't want to be eating it today also. So that's debatable. Whether it actually was in the civil War, that's a long standing thing that Necco has been saying for a while. But I think some historians that have looked into it are like, no, I'm not 100% sure about that. But it definitely was in the rations of American soldiers in World War II because the government actually took over the Necco factory and requisitioned a sizable portion of their production to give to soldiers because they don't melt, they're really portable and it's like a high calorie dense snack. Yeah. And the civil war was over in 1865, so it had to have just been that first version of whatever they were called the hub ones. Yeah. So at any rate, they're made from sugar and corn syrup. They are, like you said, super chalky. And if you take a survey or see a survey, even online for candies, it's usually kind of right at the bottom. I feel bad because we're doing nothing but bagging on this classic candy. Some people love them. Really? From what I've seen from one of the company spokespeople, yes, some people love them. Get a sweet tart if you want something like that. Or a spree. Sprees are even better. Spree? What is a spree? Oh, it's like the shiny, slicker version of Sweethearts. It's not at all powder. It's got a shiny coating, and it's vastly superior in taste as well. Smell. Really? Loved those. Really? They look like game pieces. Yes, they did. So it was a lot more fun to eat them because you'd be like, I'm not supposed to be eating this. I'm supposed to be playing. And TS, I'm going to eat it. Well, and that's a nice transition, actually, because as far as necklaces go, people sometimes buy them and use them for kids to train them on communion. Edible poker chips, shingles for gingerbread houses. That's a nice application. Or place markers. So there is actual evidence that some people do enjoy the taste of them, because the current company that owns them is Spangler from Bryan, Ohio. It's a family run outfit that's I think over 100 years old. And Spangler, very appropriately also are the ones who make circus peanuts, which is a lot of people's second most hated candy. So poor Spangler is putting out a lot of stuff that people don't like. But whatever, hats off to them for staying at it. But I guess Spangler did or no, pre Spangler, the company that owned them, changed the recipe to kind of make it a little less artificially flavored and colored, and there was a 35% drop in sales as a result. They went back to the original recipe. So that does mean that people out there do actually eat neck away for they don't just use them as poker chips like you were saying. Yeah. And hats off to the Spangler company. We love these small, kind of old school, family run candy companies. I don't think that us saying that we probably won't try necco is going to hurt their sales. Right. Hopefully this shines a little light on that company. Yeah. But they did a survey last year in 2020 that said that found that 73% of Americans are familiar with or at least had necklacea's. Okay. Pretty good coverage there at 73%. Baby boomers and Gen X obviously lead that pack. But 71% of millennials know about neko, wafers, and whatever is it what's behind Zinz? Is that 18 to 23 year olds? Or is that even something else? I think they fall within Gen Z. Yeah, we need to do that Generations podcast at some point. But apparently they obviously are sort of bringing up the rear with 40% awareness. Necco awareness is what they call it. But, I mean, that's still pretty respectable for the 1823 set. You know what I mean? Yeah. And how much could these I mean, what do they cost? What's the two of those cost, I genuinely don't know. But I will tell you that there was a dark time where they were not around. Necawafers were purchased by Spangler in 2018, and they went offline and reissued them in 2020. But now I guess they're here to stay. All right, well, I just looked it up out of curiosity. Apparently, you can get them delivered during covet, which is great. You can get a six pack of NECCA wafers for about 18 and $50. So about $3 a tube. Wow. I did not expect that. Did you expect, like, $59? No, I expected it to hover more around a dollar price point. Yeah, an American classic. The original in bold letters, candy wafer since 1847. That's great. What's cool about collecting them, too, there's a lot of people who clearly collect, like the old nostalgic necko wafers, is you can eat them and they'll taste exactly the same today as they did when they were first made back in the 19th century. Does not surprise me. That's great. I made that up, by the way, but it was just a joke. That doesn't surprise me either. Okay, well, since Chuck's not at all surprised, and I think we've reached the end of this episode, I say Chuck short stuff is out. What do you say? The greed, Stephen, you should know, is the production of iHeartRadio's how stuff works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows." | |
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podcasts.howstuffworks.com/hsw/podcasts/sysk/2017-04-13-sysk-super-volcanoes-final.mp3 | How Supervolcanoes Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-supervolcanoes-work | Until recently, volcanologists thought supervolcanoes were simply massive volcanoes. But further research has revealed that they are far different - and far more dangerous - than previously imagined. | Until recently, volcanologists thought supervolcanoes were simply massive volcanoes. But further research has revealed that they are far different - and far more dangerous - than previously imagined. | Thu, 13 Apr 2017 07:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2017, tm_mon=4, tm_mday=13, tm_hour=7, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=103, tm_isdst=0) | 29080003 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. And there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. And there's Jerry. So stuff you should know. Super bowl volcano. What was that? You know what that was. Oh, jeez, you in that song. I can't help it. For nine years you've been homing the final countdown by Europe. Not every oh, I don't know, every three months or so. It's the nine years. The world's most effective earworm. Do you do that to Yuumi with the final countdown? It doesn't get to her. She bounces right off of her. She's like, try your worst. Super volcanoes. If you listen to volcanoes. Well, we did that one. Yeah. Or Yellowstone. I guess it was Geysers. Yeah. Nature's Innuendo. That was a great title then. Some of this might seem a little bit familiar, but why not cover it as its own thing? Well, it is its own thing. They're starting to figure out. Yeah. Like this article even says, don't even think of it as an amped up volcano. Yes. It's a stop. They should call it something else then. They really should. I mean, you can make a case that yes. Calling it a super volcano, it does make sense in a way, because it is obviously magma pushing up through the Earth. Sure. But that's pretty much where the comparisons end. Yeah. And that's a pretty deep comparison between a volcano and a super volcano. But there's a lot of different stuff going on, and the more we look into these things, frankly, the scarier they become. Yeah. I mean, right out of the gate. One of the big things that is different from a volcano is a volcano is usually like a mountain that you can look at. Yeah. List smoke coming out of it and point to you can keep an eye on it, in other words. Yeah. And whereas the super volcano is usually categorized by a big depression in the Earth from a past explosion, like a crater or something. Yeah. Or it might be like nothing. That crater might be fully filled in by this point. It might be a forest. It could be it could be a hot spot like in Yellowstone, as we'll see, where there's a lot of geysers in hot springs. But the point is, it's a super volcano is a massive amount of magma, a chamber, a magma chamber, possibly a magma reservoir feeding the magma chamber, something even bigger, and it's connected or near a thin spot in the mantle that it may or may not have created itself in the Earth's surface. And that eventually the pressure inside is going to build up, there's going to be enough magma, and then, kaboom, things are going to go south pretty quick because these things are so big and so explosive that they can change the global climate, possibly irreversibly on a human time scale. Yeah. Whenever I read about stuff like this or even your garden variety natural disaster. It just feels like the Earth is like, one day I'm going to kill all the people. You realize this? All humans will be gone. I want to just explode you all. Yeah. That's so Gaia hypothesis is it kind of all right, but it's not going to be anytime soon in the case of a super volcano. Well, we hope. Well, sure. It's been calculated that they go off every 100,000 or so years. Yeah. The most recent one was something like 24,000, 26,000 years ago. It's not too bad. Yeah, we got a little time. New Zealand. Yeah. So we should say this is spelled T-A-U-P-O. Here in the States, we would typically pronounce it like taupo, maybe, but based on our Maori episode, I would guess that it's actually pronounced could you repeat that again? So let's talk about how big these things can be. Sumatra, 74,000 years ago, there was a super eruption that some say, and of course, we don't know because it was 74,000 years ago. So all we can do is kind of make our best guess. But some people think that this almost was an extinction level event in full. It almost wiped out the entire human race. It could have jump started a 10,000 year ice age, leaving behind a crater or a Caldora. That was about 19 x 62 miles. Right. That is huge. Yeah. That was Mount Toba. The Toba Super Eruption, right? Yes. 670 cubic miles of ejecta. Yeah. And that 10,000 year ice age thing, that's noteworthy. Yeah. They think that this whole thing was bad enough that it reduced humans down to several thousand people and that there were plenty more humans before then. But that the effects from shooting gases. Yeah. Jeka. But gas that float up into the atmosphere and actually reflect sunlight, cooling the Earth below. It really disrupted a lot of normal processes here on Earth, cooled it, and made it really tough to survive. That's a hallmark of super volcanoes. It's their global effect. Yeah. Like a nuclear winter, basically. Right, exactly. Changing the temperature of the Earth. Maybe not permanently, but long enough to wear your sol. Right. 10,000 year. I said you're not going to be happy during those years. These days, North America south America and Asia are the greatest risks. And there's one, actually it says those three places are the greatest risk, but there's one in Europe, in Italy. Yeah, that supposedly and this was from just, like, four months ago, I read an article that said that the one in Italy, it's in Naples. What's it called? The compi flagree, or as we say in the United States, the flagrian fields area. The burning fields. Yeah. That should give you an indication of what we're talking about. Didn't get that name for nothing. No, but it's right beneath Naples. Yeah, but apparently that one is based on computer modeling and physical measurements. One of the scientists said, we propose that magma could be approaching the critical degassing pressure level at Camp Lagra. And basically what that means is it's not going to happen like next year. But they have raised the volcano threat level from green to yellow, which means we need to kind of really start monitoring and studying this thing a lot more. Right. The thing is, they don't know how to predict, like it could happen next year. They're saying it's probably not going to, but it could because we know so little about volcanoes and super volcanoes in particular, that it could just happen. Yeah. We don't even know for sure how many there are underneath us. No, but they say like six to ten, maybe potentially active ones around the globe right now. Right. And then a total of maybe 30 to 40 that have ever been right. Yes, but yeah, that one I don't understand why this article overlooked that one. Europe. But it's like Europe's toast, basically. It's inevitable. Probably next month or two. I think the biggest ever happened here in the States, in Colorado, long before anybody called it Colorado, it was 28 million years ago. And the Fish Canyon. Tough event. So here's where super volcanoes really kind of come into their own. Just the massive amount of damage and stuff they spew out. Right. The Fish Canyon. Tough event shot out 1200 cubic miles. So you know what a cube is, right? Yeah, it's like a three dimensional square invented by Mr. Rubik. Right, exactly. You can take an inch by an inch by an inch and create a little cubic inch. You can do that with feet. You can do that with a meter. And you just keep going bigger and bigger and bigger, and eventually you're going to get to a cubic mile or a cubic kilometer. And this Fish Canyon Tuft event spewed out 1200 cubic miles or 5000 cubic kilometers of rock, of dust, of ash, of molten lava, shot it out in that nuts. That's so much stuff that literally changes the geography of an entire region when something like that happens. Yeah, that's crazy. All right, I'm going to contemplate the cube, and we'll be back right after this to talk a little bit more about Yellowstone. Did you ever watch Jim Henson's? theCUBE remember when we talked about did you ever watch it trippy bizarre? Yes. Very weird. Yeah. We love our friends with the Henson Company. Sure. All right, well, we're going to talk about Yellowstone a little bit, but defining these and when we talked about volcanoes defining volcanoes and what makes a volcano or a super volcano is not an exact science. They don't have strict definitions, but they do try to look at a couple of different things when they're categorizing these bad mama jamas. Did I just say that magnitude, which is the volume of the magma or the mass of magma that's erupted and then intensity, which is the rate that that happens. Right. So if you're looking at magnitude and intensity, like I said, they don't have, like, a number once it gets over this number. Right. So I wonder how they do categorize it. They don't. It's just up in the air. They just do not have it set out so that you can say, well, once it hits this and this, it's officially a super volcano. It's just not laid out like that as bad as writers of articles want it to be like that. It's just not at that point. But there are factors where it's like, yeah, I would qualify that as a super volcano. I'm Joe Volcanologist or Jane volcanologist. Joe versus the volcano. Sure. Very nice. And they usually do it by comparison, right? Yeah. So as far as intensity goes, it's how fast magma erupts, right? Yeah. In Mount Vesuvius back in 79 Ce with that very famous eruption that covered Pompeii and Herculaneum. Yeah. If you believe that kind of thing. I've seen it with my own eyes. Right. Yeah. Mount Vesufius shot out magma and Ejecta at a rate of 100,000. Wow. That's a lot, right? Yeah, that's some fast magma. So super volcanoes erupt at something like tens of millions or hundreds of millions of cubic meters per second. That's a lot, too. Yes. You don't want to be standing on that road. No, you don't want to be anywhere near. So that's typically how they're figuring out what constitutes a super volcano. They look at this volcano, and they say, Bad, and then they go, but what about this? And they go, oh, super. That's a super volcano. There is another categorization they use, which is also a great band name. Volcano Explosivity Index. Yeah. See, the index just kind of throws it off, you know? Yeah. Maybe an album title. Okay. Ejecta. Not bad. No, not bad at all. So this is when they measure ash column height and the quantity of that ash pumice and lava ejected. So not the volume, but how high it goes. I don't know why they just can't combine all that into one big formula. Right. But super volcanoes, there it is a scale, and the highest Ve I category is magnitude eight, which means more than 250 cubic miles and a plume more than 16 miles high. 16 miles, dude. Right. That's amazing. Yeah, it is. It's super. So you kind of put all this stuff together. They don't have it in a single index, but if you combine all this stuff, you start to get an idea of just how much damage a super volcano can do, just how massive and huge it is. And again, going back to comparisons, Crackatoa was a very famous volcano that erupted in and it created what's regarded as the loudest sound ever recorded here on Earth. It traveled around the world four times over five days, and we know that it did, because by 1883, there were weather stations that had barometers all over the world. And they would record the shockwave from the sound every 34 hours like clockwork. For five days. It just kept traveling around the world from this explosion, this volcanic explosion. It was heard by human ears three 0 mile away. Holy cow. It was one of the most astounding events that's ever happened in recorded history. And there's a really cool article just about the sound it made called The Sound So Loud that it circled the Earth four times on Nautilus. Oh, wow. So go check it out. I think everybody should read this article. It's a really cool article. It killed, like 36,000 people. Yeah. And that wasn't a very populated area. No. Crackato was in Java, Indonesia. Yeah. I guess Krakato in the 1880s was probably not New York City. No, it wasn't. So, yeah, the idea that it killed 36,000 people yeah, it wasn't a densely populated area. Right around the mountain. It killed a lot of people. Spread out like Naples. Yeah. They're talking about, I think, like, 500,000 people live in just that immediate area. To be just devastating. That would not be good. Man. All right, so we talked about it's kind of tough to predict these things. Kind of tough to pin down where they are and to study them in Yellowstone, which we've kind of danced around a little bit. Not literally in Yellowstone. Yellowstone in particular is a big deal because of just how big this thing could be. They're talking 30 x 45 miles underground stretching from northern Nevada through southern Idaho to northwest Wyoming. It's basically a system 350 miles long and about 18 million years old. Man. It's just bubbling underground. That's the trail of volcanic activity that has taken place yes. Which ends at Yellowstone. Right. And the one that's actually the super volcano beneath Yellowstone is, like 30 miles by 45 miles right. Which is huge. The one in Europe at the burning field is about 7 miles wide, which is enormous in and of itself. But 30 to 45, that's way bigger, I'm afraid to say. And it's made up of a magma chamber beneath the surface, a few miles beneath the surface. And they thought that that was the extent of the supervolcano. Apparently. They did a survey in 2015. They figured out that this chamber has about 2500 cubic miles worth of magma in it. There's also a reservoir beneath that magma chamber and that reservoir has 11,200 cubic miles. All this magma poised right beneath Yellowstone and the pressure is just building and building and building. And that's the other thing about super volcanoes. They seem to erupt not slowly where lava just spills out, like in, say, like, Hawaii at Kilauea, where it's very famously just a pretty steady flow. But it's not explosive. Right. These things blow up. Yeah. And when they do, they can bury areas around them in hundreds and hundreds of meters of ash that solidifies and turns into the new crust of the Earth. It turns us all into statues. It does. So that with my own eyes, too. All right, well, let's take our final break and we'll talk a little bit more about what lies beneath Yellowstone Park right after this. All right, so Yellowstone, I mean, it's had events in the past. That's why they know there's going to be one in the future. About two, 1 million years ago, the Huckleberry Ridge event, that's a great name. I don't think they called it that 2.1 million years ago, but that had a 588 cubic mile blast and created a crater about the size of four Manhattans. And I assume they mean everybody knows exactly what Manhattan's size is. Sure. Just put Ford, New York City's side by side or on top of each other, however you want to arrange them. Yeah. Maybe in a little spinning pinwheel mushroom together in a ball, like use soap bars remnants. Yeah. 1.3 million years ago, they had one at Mesa Falls that was only about 67 cubic miles of ejecta. That was tiny. But they still consider that a super volcano because no one seems to care that it has no definition. What else? 640,000 years ago at Lava Creek, that one spit out 240 cubic miles. About 1000 cubic kilometers. And apparently it's ash pillar hit 100,000ft. Wow. That's pretty awesome, right? Yeah. So, yeah, they're looking at these things and they're saying, this is probably a pretty decent map of what's going to happen at Yellowstone eventually. Yeah. We have an article on our site too, called what if the Ellistone Supervolcano Erupted? And they said it could kill as many as 90,000 people immediately and put a ten foot layer of molten ash as far as 1000 miles around the park. 10ft, yes, 10ft deep. That would cover your one storey house. Yeah, for 1000 miles. And they said that nuclear winter would probably almost be a certainty. Probably be a certainty. Almost probably. It would basically blot out the sun and cool the earth, which would kill our crops. It would be really bad. But they said yeah. Do you remember in 20, 14, 15, when that Icelandic volcano went off? Was it 2010, the effect that it had on air travel in Europe? Yeah. And it was just air travel. And everybody kept waiting for it to clear up for weeks. Like flights were getting delayed, canceled, rerouted. Like Europe was just off the map as far as plane travel was going, it was just plain travel. And that was a pretty small volcano. It was in no way, shape or form a super volcano. So just that one aspect of transportation being affected, let alone the fact that this could, like, kick off an ice age. There's just so many, so many factors that could come into play that could get us in this way, get us in that way. It could affect our crops through sunlight and through temperature. It could make us super cold, make our toes fall off. There's just so many different ways it could affect us. The average person is not walking around thinking about this, and they should be. Well, true, but not to be alarmist, the US. Geological Survey said that the probability that Yellowstone will blow its top is each year. Yeah. So one in 700,000, which is on par of any given individual being struck by lightning. So that makes me feel better. Yeah. There's still plenty of lightning out there. Yeah. And you never know what's going to happen. So apparently the hot spot causes the Earth above it to dome once in a while, and it feels like it showing off, right? Yeah. I bet the park rangers, the illustone they see that are like, oh, man, is this it? It was a 2003 temperature increase just a few inches below the soil. In some spots, it was hitting like 200 degrees Fahrenheit, boiling the SAP in trees nearby. Oh, man, it was getting hot. And then apparently it started to cool down again. And what's probably going on in these processes, there's a process called incubation, right, where they're just sitting there because the reservoir and the chamber, they have finite space. So the more magma that builds up in it, the higher the pressure builds. And if that pressure starts to build and all of a sudden escapes a little bit, that magma is going to shoot up. And as that magma shoots up, it starts to form air bubbles because the change in elevation we're talking is traveling miles very quickly upwards. So bubbles start to form. As those bubbles break up, they explode. It's very much like champagne, and it shoots out and it allows more magnet to follow behind it and it follows the same process. So there's a huge explosion and it can actually be hastened by earthquakes or it can also be like, that relieves the pressure delayed by earthquakes. Yeah. So there's a lot of different factors involved. But during this period where pressure is building and building and building, it's the incubation period. And the reason it changes from, say, one year to the next is if it's not getting as much magma, then some of that magma higher up has the chance to kind of cool and solidify and fall back down and pressure is relieved. But we have no way of tracking that. We can just be like, oh, my God, the ground is bowing up. Right? That's about where we're at right now. But don't they generally think that dormancy is like, the longer it sits, the worse it's going to be if it eventually does go off? That's what I read. Interesting. Do you have anything else? Yeah, apparently one other thing. If you were around a volcano that went off, I would guess any volcano, it would be like breathing tiny glass needles, thanks to all of the silicates that were ejected into the air. Man. And I have even one more other thing. There was a volcano that went off in 1815. Tambora, I believe. I'm not sure exactly where that was, but the Tamboura earth or volcano, is credited with the creation of Frankenstein. Really? Yeah. It was the year without a summer, and in Northern Europe, the summer was super cool. Elsewhere, there was basically no summer. It was snow the whole time. But because of that, Mary Shelley and Byron. Right? Yeah. And her husband Percy By, shelley all were stuck inside during a summer vacation. And that was when she came up with Frankenstein because they had a scary story contest. Yeah, there was a movie about that. Yeah. But that contest may never have happened and Frankenstein may never have been created had it not been for that volcano going off. That's a freaky movie. I can't remember the name of it. Lost Summer. Oh, was it that med? More than one. I just remember the whole time there was a lot of drugs and Mary Shelley was like, Percy, why can't you be more like Lord Byron? And he said, Because I'm Percy. Oh, really? Who is in it? Just kidding. No, man. Was it called Gothic? I don't know. I seem to remember that it was kind of why do I think Julian Sands was in it? It sounds like a Julian Sands movie. It's all very much in the very 19th century. Drugs. Yeah, it's in the back of my head. We'll find out very deep. If you want to know more about volcanoes and Frankenstein and all that stuff, type those words in the search bar. Howstop works.com since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this cool uncle from Katie. Hey, guys, it's about free speech. In 1990, my uncle Dennis Barry was the director of Contemporary Arts Center in Cincinnati, Ohio. The museum brought in the Robert Maplehorpe art exhibit titled The Perfect Moment, which resulted in an uproar as seven of the photographs were seen as pornographic from some conservative folks. My uncle defended the artwork as freedom of speech and was subsequently arrested, charged with obscenity and went to trial. It was the first time in history that a museum was actually taken to trial with criminal charges over the contents of an exhibition. He spent a few nights in jail, received death threats and was harassed all over town. But he stuck to his firm beliefs that artists had the right to express themselves freely in America and furthermore deserve to have their work exhibited. During the trial, art experts were brought in to help the jury decide if they were pornographic in nature. Can you see Matt Locke being, like I say, is a bull whip in a man's rectum art? I never saw that show. Was he Southern? No, that was Foghorn Leghorn. Yeah, he was definitely Southern. Ultimately, the jury concluded that Maplethorpe's work was in fact art and that my uncle Northern museum was not guilty of obscenity charges. That is so cool. Very cool. Do you remember that? I remember that case. Oh, really? Yeah, man. Maple syrup. Oh, yeah. It was a huge deal. Maybe it's because I was in Toledo at the time, so they made a big deal out of it, but it was pretty big. She said, to this day, it's still the most famous trial of freedom of speech in the art world. Boom. And as an artist myself, I'm pretty darn proud of my uncle's actions way back when. He admits himself that the events and effects of that trial never really go away. He's still recognized for his actions. And museums and galleries across the country have been able to show challenging artwork that perhaps would have been cast aside had my uncle and his awesome First Amendment lawyer H. Lewis Serkin Not Choir, had not won that trial. That's awesome. Ultimately, the result of the trial left a positive legacy for Contemporary Art Center. And my uncle went on to become the founding director of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, where he had to defend offensive song lyrics as art in order to get them displayed in the museum. That is such a great email. I love that email. He's a pretty interesting guy to say the least. And that is from Katy, Barry and Katie Boy. Tell your Uncle Dennis that we have a lot of respect for him. For real, like not fake respect. Like we usually do that. No, seriously, it's a great story. Head, talk to your uncle. You know, one thing I'm sad about that we didn't mention in the First Amendment episode was that whole Two Live Crew episode. Oh, yeah. You remember that? They all went to like I think they went to the Supreme Court over their lyrics, didn't they? Yeah, it was a big deal. Everyone expected them to just lay down and roll over. No, two Life crews don't roll over for nobody. No, we're going to do one on the PMRC at some point, so we'll probably cover it in that. Okay, good. If you want to get in touch with us, you can tweet to us. We're at S-Y-S-K podcast. We're at Joshua Clarke. You can hang out on facebookcom. Charlesw. Chuck Bryant and facebookcom STUFFYou know. Send us an email to stuffpodcast@houseofworks.com. And as always, join us at home on the web stuffyshow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstofworks.com. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. There's a perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my favorite, Murder in Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. 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Who are the Amish? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/who-are-the-amish | In this episode of Stuff You Should Know, Josh and Chuckers discuss the origins and practices of the Amish. | In this episode of Stuff You Should Know, Josh and Chuckers discuss the origins and practices of the Amish. | Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:46:34 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2010, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=16, tm_hour=20, tm_min=46, tm_sec=34, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=47, tm_isdst=0) | 40024829 | audio/mpeg | "Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me, as always, is Charles. Chuck Bryant. Yes. Right. Yes. Hey, Chuck. How's it going, man? Oh, great. Yeah, things are great. I love podcasting on Monday mornings. Yeah. Or afternoons. Afternoon. What time is it? One. It seems like I just got here, though. Yeah, I've been getting here late lately, and I got to tell you, that extra half hour feels like it eats up 4 hours of productivity. What, are you driving a buggy to work? Nice. I am. Chuck, we should say I and nay throughout this. Okay. Yeah. Nay on the I nay. Chuck, josh, let me take you back in time a little bit. Say 1727 a long time. Imagine Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. Okay. All of a sudden, a new group of people show up, and they seem nice enough. They seem hard working. They like to use their draft horses for locomotion and all sorts of normal 18th century, early 18th century stuff. Yeah. But in very short order, the welcome to the New World colonizing neighbor pies start drying up as the surrounding people, who will heretofore be referred to as the English, realize that this new group of people who are showing up don't really care to socialize with them or anyone else in the outside world, for that matter. Yeah. That's the way they like it. It is. What we're talking about, Chuck, in case you haven't guessed, is the Amish. I knew this because you read the article. Yeah. Good thing. These people are incredibly interesting to me. Yeah, me, too. Remember we said on some podcast ways back, that the Amish will never hear it? Sure. We can say whatever we want, and all these people wrote in, like, no, jerks. What about rum? Spring up. Yeah, which we'll get to in a minute. But they're absolutely correct. It's entirely possible there's an Amish kid running around. Although it should be noted that we did not hear from any Amish kid on Rum Spring. No. So take that. They may have heard it, though. They may just not be real comfy with the typing an email request, comfortable with. Maybe there's letters on crystal meth in Rum Spring. Yeah, we'll get to that in a minute. Okay. All right. So again, we're talking about the Amish who did first arrive in the United States in 1727. And actually, when they did get to Pennsylvania at that time, they were still a fairly young Christian sect, right? Yes. 1693 is when they were actually formed because a Swiss mennonite named Jacob Aman basically didn't like three things. I know. The three things are so tricky. I want to split off because I want to keep washing people's feet, which I can understand. That's pretty cool because have you ever washed someone's feet? You grew up a Christian, right? Do you ever do that? No. I did once. I was even Catholic. Wow. It's weird. Yes. And it is humbling. Especially if you're like twelve. You did that as a part of church. Wow. I've never heard of that. Modern churches, I guess. Right. But the point is, it's meant to be a humbling experience. You're washing the feet of another human being. Feet are dirty. Let me tell you, buddy. If I had to wash your feet, it would be humbling. Humbling is one word that comes to mind. Yeah. You'd see new shades of green. What else? Did he not want to celebrate Josh communion twice a year? No, he wanted to celebrate it twice a year. All right. Other than once. He said once a year. So he said screw that and the foot washing. And then the mennonites basically wanted to mingle with the English, or I guess they weren't the English at the time, but mingle with society. Right. And he said, I'm not down with that. I'm going to create a new deal called the Amish. Right. And it did. And it took off like a rocket. But I mean, that last one is probably the most definitive characteristic of the Amish. Absolutely. And still don't socialize with outsiders as much as possible. Right? Yeah. That'll keep popping up throughout this podcast, I predict. Watch for it. And they're still in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, as well as Ohio and Indiana. And Utah in Canada. Canada, yeah. Utah is the newest place. They're having to go further and further west. Yeah. For some reason, Utah makes sense. I know Mormonism has nothing to do with it, but it just makes sense. It definitely does. More so than like if they rooted down in Vegas or something, which they never, ever would now. They would not. They shy away from electricity, which is one reason they'd stay away from Vegas, which probably just scared the hell out of the Amish going down the Strip in Vegas. So let's talk about why they do this stuff. They dress plainly, right? Yeah, very much. The men wear dark suits, usually a blue shirt with some suspenders. A black brimmed hat, which is the shape of the hat, apparently tells you a lot about the man. Like if you're more old school, it'll have a different crown and brim width, which I don't understand how that fully works, but the hat makes the man. Really? Yeah. But not the clothes. Well, the clothes, obviously, but the clothes are all the same. The hat is where you can vary it to say something about yourself. I got you. I did not know that. So those are the dudes. Right. On the ladies. The ladies, they wear frock dresses, black capes, which I find kind of dashing. Sure. And if they're baptized, they cover their hair all the time. And they don't cut their hair, the women. No. But men do wear their hair short cropped beards. If they are married. Correct. But no mustache. Why? I thought it might have something to do with bikers or something. Tom Sellek. Yeah. Who just celebrated his birthday, by the way. Happy birthday tomorrow. Let me know. Really? Yeah. And this was a brand new fact to me, because mustaches are associated with the military, at least to the Amish. Yeah. And they're not down with the military. No, not at all. As a matter of fact, they're they reject any combat what's it called, Chuck? They reject violence against another human, even in self defense, which means you can't go to war because you're going to be put in a situation like that. Right. They have been, in the past, conscripted. That's what I was thinking of. Okay. They have been conscripted to serve in non combat role. I joined the draft. Yeah, sure. And I think during World War II, there was a couple of Amish guys who were conscientious objectors, who were basically put in hell, which was the state mental hospitals. Really? And I believe New York or New Jersey. And they actually led the charge in exposing the horrible quality of life at these places and some real reform in statemental institutions. Well, do we really need Amish in the army, though? I mean, even during the draft? No, but would you want an Amish guy in the dress next to you? Well, you'd never see one there. Oh, yeah, exactly. I imagine they go to prison or whatever. But that does bring up a point that kind of arose in my head while I was reading this article, Chuck, and that is that they live in the United States. Yes. So even though they are this very peaceful, tranquil, nonviolent society, they still live in the United States. Yeah. I think if there is a draft, it's a really important moment in history. So yeah, they got to do something. Everybody's pitching in. You can't live entirely separately, in my opinion. You know how I feel about Buddhist monks who go up in the mountains for their whole lives. Draft them, I think. Exactly. Get them in the trenches. So, Chuck yes, Josh? Like we said, the Amish women wear bonnet on their hair after they're baptized. The amish being ana. Baptist don't believe in infant baptism. Neither did I. As just a regular old Baptist. Southern Baptist. It makes sense. Yeah. We don't baptize at birth or anything like that. You have to be old enough to make your own decision. Right. Which makes a lot of sense to me. I was baptized as a baby, and I have no recollection of it whatsoever. And aside from the Catholic guilt, it's been virtually meaningless to me. Right. I was baptized at 16 and was led to the Lord with air quotes and my gay youth director. Oh, yeah, he really is gay. Later on I didn't think you would call him gay if you love it. We all know and love you, Chuck. He later on came out, and the church said, I don't think I want you to be anymore. Does that nullify your baptism? I'm looking into that. So were you baptized in the river? No, just in the pool behind in the church. I got you modern baptism, not a brother wardrobe. Right. I have to say, I find that just a really good idea, that you can't get baptized until you're fully aware of what you're doing. It makes sense. And my wife Brim Hat is off to the Amish and to your sect for pursuing that. Stone Mountain First Baptist Church. Exactly. That sect. So you enter the church when you're 16 if you want to, right? Yeah. You make the choice, too. But here we reach Rum Springs. Right. That is when you are allowed to live among the English and do crystal meth and sell it, too. I understand there's a pretty big drug ring of Amish kids that were selling drugs. You can dance and play guitar and watch TV and waste electricity. Use electricity, yeah. And waste it, yeah. Oh, I imagine if you're just coming into electricity at age 16, you waste it like nobody's business. Yeah. But yes. So you are allowed to go off for a period of time, and you are in Rum Spring, which means run around. Yeah. German. German. Like all Amish stuff is German. Right. They speak a low German amongst themselves, high German for math, but they all know how to speak English, so when they actually do have to associate with outsiders, they do. Yeah. But on Run Spring, you imagine they're running around speaking English, probably doing drugs, some of them. We're not saying they'll do that, of course. No, but they can. They can, and they do because that documentary, The Devil's Playground, I saw that recently. Yeah. Is that any good? Well, yeah, and that's where the crystal methane came from. There was a kid who got mixed up and dealing it and basically had to move because some guy was trying to kill him. Some rival drug dealer was trying to kill him. Well, so he really experienced the English life. He's, like, object to this conscientiously for you. It's weird, though, man, because it'll show parties, and a lot of them. Like, this kid was a boy, and he dressed normally, like, if you call a 16 year old attire these days normal. But the girls were still wearing their thing, so they were at this party listening to JayZ with their frock and their bonnet on, drinking a beer. Wow. Yeah. I got to check that movie out. It's really good. Awesome. It's very insightful. Okay, so a pretty dark, shady past when I have my own little Rum Springer. Sure. Right. Still on yours? No, I'm not. As a matter of fact, I have ended mine. I ended it a while back, but I fully ended it. Yeah. It's nice. I'm grown up now. Chuck. For me, though, there was nothing that I was going to test out. It was all testing. Right. Yeah. But I wasn't going to examine, do I want to make a choice between good and evil? Right. Although ultimately, it's what it panned out to be. Right. Which did you choose? I chose good. Okay. Can you see the smile is so bright and sunny today. True. Yeah. With these kids, once they reach a certain point and I didn't get an article how long run spring. It lasts maybe a year. I'm not positive either, but let's say we'll go with a year. Okay. And then they decide, okay, do I want to go back to the church, or do I want to just continue living with the English? Sure. Since they haven't taken an oath to the church yet, they could conceivably still be could have ties to their family, their Amish family, even if they decide to leave the Amish community yeah. They're not shunned, which is what they call it. Right. So they haven't broken it to the church, so they're not shunned. What is shunning? Entail shunning is when you have taken that oath to the church, so you've made that decision beyond the age of 16, and then you leave and don't come back. Well, you're not wanting back. Well, you can't come back, though, if you're past 16 and you leave, they will let you back in. If you say, Boy, I made a big mistake. Oh, yeah. But if you leave forever, they will shun you permanently, which means no ties, no family, no Christmas at home, no Thanksgiving, no Easter, nothing like that. They celebrate all those. Sure. Well, they're Christians. Yeah. All right. So the kid I find it heartening that the vast majority of Amish kids who go on Rum Spring and come back, they do. So they've made the choice. Now they're going to become indoctrinated in the church. They're 16, but they're toward the end of the 16th year. Right, right. And they're saying, I'm going to be Amish. What is amish life like? Well, they've already experienced a lot of it, because you grow up with the ordinang being pounded into your head. Right. Which is the German word for order. And that's their they said it's mostly unwritten, just their sort of way of life, how to be Amish. Amish for dummies. Right. And you actually don't have to be real book smart, actually, because the Amish don't believe in extraneous book learning. Why would they? They think you need to learn a vocation or a craft. Absolutely. And probably and it makes a certain amount of sense from a very religious standpoint. Knowing too much is kind of unhealthy and frankly, a little vain. Right. We're very vain. Chuck well, and that's what it's all about. You're talking about the dress and the electricity and all that. All of that has to do with the fact that they shun things of the world vanity and ego and pride and clothing, obviously, leads to that. When you're all wearing different clothes, you want to dress nice and dress better than your neighbor, save up money and spend money and spend time deciding what to wear. None of that works with the Amish. No. Like we said, neither does electricity. No. All of their power comes from either they may have electricity, but it's coming from a diesel generator. Right. Or they have gas. They can burn gas in their house. Yeah. And oil, obviously. Right. So they don't have artificial light. Right. Which makes me wonder something. I couldn't find the answer to this, but before the advent of artificial light, apparently humans had a totally different sleep pattern than we have now. Oh, really? We went to bed much earlier, but about two, three, one sometime in the night, we'd wake up for a good 30 minutes or an hour, really smoke a pipe, read a book, hang out, that kind of thing, and then go back to sleep. I do that now. Do you really? Sure. Smoke a pipe, read a book. Do you smoke a pipe while you read a book? Yeah. Just go back to sleep. Sure. And Emily's always like, what are you doing? You're, like, smell. I'm just being plain. Yeah. But I wonder if the Amish still have that kind of sleep pattern, because apparently artificial light eradicated that. Well, yeah. Even if you're using oil lamps and candles, you don't want to burn those until midnight. So you would probably go to bed earlier. Sure. Otherwise, you're wasting they're not big into waste. You'd be wasting the oil just to stay up till midnight because what are you staying up for? Right. Because all I got to do is get back up the next day and work your butt off. Yeah. And they do, because, again, they're farmers. And one of the reasons that they've hung on to farming is, I guess it's kind of symbolic chuck. It's a way to separate themselves. The rest of the world has moved forward with its book learning and all that. Book learning? Yeah. I've got a crop list for you, if you want to know. Let's hear it. In order of acreage, the Amish grill corn the most. Makes sense. Hay, wheat, tobacco, which kind of surprised me. Soybean, barley and potatoes. Yeah. And that's just the farming tip. They also, obviously quilt, and they make they're big craftsmen. Furniture builders. Yes. Apparently, they're big new thing now where utility sheds. Yeah. And as you mentioned, the quilt amish quilts are, like, among some of the ladies, among certain quarters of femininity. Amish quilts are, like, as good as it gets. You used to be able to get these things really detailed, ornate quilts for nothing. Yeah. And then after a while, the omelets were like, oh, English. You really like these things. How much do you pay for them? Yeah. And apparently they peaked at thousands of dollars in the eighties and then finally settle down another, like, a grand deal, which really expensive quote. Sure. After we took advantage of them, it sounds like, for many years, by saying, well, sure. I'll take this handmade thing for $7 out of your hands. There you go. Amish. But I'm surprised that they did allow it to get as high as it did, because they don't really care much for cash. They don't use credit. Sure. Most of their wealth, or I guess net worth, comes from their real estate holdings. Yeah. They own a lot of Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Lancaster county. Yeah. And everywhere they go, they buy a lot of land. That 16 year old that just became indoctrinating, the church. One of the things that he or she will be getting into about now is the courtship of a husband or wife. Yeah, sure. Right. So when you're about 16, you start to drink lemonade on the porch with your sweetie. Right. You'll drive her in the buggy or walk with her to the singing service. Yeah, in singing, actually, their courtship ritual and wedding ceremonies are really detailed. I didn't realize this. Pretty cool. You want to go over it? Well, yeah. Well, the singing thing has not done anything to do with that. That's just what young, single Amish kids do for fun. Right, right. But, I mean, it's kind of arranged so that this is part of the courtship process. So you can spend some time with somebody else that you're love to sing. Looking to wed. That's what they say. Yeah, they do. And they don't always sing religious songs either, because there's not anything else they can do. They can't dance? No. They can't play musical instrument. It's like John Lithgow lives there. I didn't even know what that means. Haven't you ever seen Footloose? Oh, sure, yeah. I thought you were talking about Dexter or Third Rock from the sun or something. He's on Dexter? Yeah, he played a serial killer in the last season. I haven't gotten there yet. Creepy. Yeah, he is. Good actor creepy. You know what else is creepy, now that I'm thinking of it, this is a little off topic, but Amish dolls do not have faces. Why? Because it goes with the whole vanity thing, and it was like a long standing tradition that they just kind of held onto. Like they don't want their photograph taken. They don't want their faces displayed as a graven image. So their baby dolls have no faces. This is cool. It's cool. It's creepy as hell, dude. Have you seen the video of the little baby that was born with no eyes on Good Morning America? No eyes. Was she Amish? No. She could be, though. That was a total sidebar then. Yeah. Okay. And also you were saying about the dolls being faceless. Apparently with the quilts, there was a myth that grew up that every Amish quilt has a purposeful flaw, so that they don't create anything perfect. Yeah, not true. But they said there are likely flaws because anything handmade is going to have an off stitch, but it's not like they do it on purpose or anything. Right, that's silly. So a couple of Amish teens are courtney. Yeah, they're Courtney back to the court starts about 16. Usually they're 20 or older when they finally get married. So the court for years long courtship. Well, there's actually studies that I've read that show that the longer the courtship, the more lasting the marriage. Just in general. Oh, yes. Not just among Amish, but with any human. Oh, that makes sense. Sure. You see, these people get married after these celebrities get married after a few months of being on set together, then they get on the next movie and they're like, oh, I think I love my new costar now. Yeah, those people are crazy. They're like the opposite of the Amish. Complete opposite of the amish. Yeah. So they're courting Josh. They are allowed to spend time together. They encourage to spend private time together. But it would be unseemly if they did this behind closed doors. Yes, it would be. So they keep it like you said on the front porch. They do have chaperones, right? Yeah. But a good chaperone, like, knows to not pay too much attention. They're just kind of there to let everybody else know we're not letting these two go back on Rum Springer. It's so weird. It seems they're so, on one end, very rigid with the ordinance, but on the other end, they're very permissible. Just the fact that they allow Rum Springer to me is amazing. It's such a healthy, brave custom. Yeah. Because you're saying, go figure out if you really want to do that, if you like it and come back. It poses such a huge risk that these people are going to be like, hell, yes. I like electricity and I really love crystal meth. Yeah. You would think it these days that very few Amish kids would come back. Yeah. But they do. And when they do, they're courting again. Now they're getting married. Yes. What do you say? About 20. About 20. And actually it happens at the same time for everybody, right. Fall, November. Yeah. November is the favorite month. Winter hasn't begun yet, still, probably. But it's after the fall harvest, right? Yeah. In Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. It's definitely cold. So what happens is two weeks after the fall communion, one of two, remember? Yes. So what happens, Chuck, is that about the time, if you want to jockey yourself to get married in the fall or the winter, you give your girl a present, a practical gift, no jewelry. Like a butter turn, something like that. That's what I would give. Or something for really good quilting or whatever. Yeah. And you give her this present and she takes it to mean, like, okay, well, he wants to marry me. He just gave me a butter churn. How else can you read that? What else does that mean? And she goes back and tells her family, and they're like, I or Nay. But they're probably like I yeah, sure. But they keep it a secret, though. They do. Among the family until two weeks after the fall community, one of two in the year. A list of all the kids who are going to get married, for all the girls, actually, which I thought was kind of cool. They do it by girl. Yeah, that's very woman centric in the marriage. Marriages and weddings. Or weddings, I should say. Yes. So there's a list that's published. And by published, we mean that the deacon reads the names off and that's all the kids who are going to get married that year. Right? Yes. None of them are there. Well, that would be the dead giveaway to me, because everybody's at church yeah, they don't have a church, actually. We left that part out. Yeah. They do the church services in the homes, and it rotates from Sunday to Sunday. Yeah. So every home, it needs to be capable of hosting church service. Right. And in these church services, they are interpreting the Bible literally. We left that part out, too. We didn't leave anything out. We're jumping around. This is Amish country. You can do whatever you want. Yeah. Because we know what electricity means. That's right. So, yes, they are published, they are announced. They are not there because they're enjoying time with their family at a private meal. Private meal together. And this is where it all kicks off. This is where it all gets sexy. Well, I don't know about that. So the wedding actually takes place in the home, too? The bride's home. Right. Which is where the honeymoon I'm sorry. They live in the bride's home afterward? Yeah. For a good, I think six months. A year. Yeah. And the honeymoon takes place. They just go to visit other relatives. Yeah. Pretty hot and heavy, I think. Yeah. This is crazy. When they actually do have the wedding ceremony and let me also just let me rephrase that. This isn't crazy. I don't think what the Amish do is crazy. It's interesting. Yeah. Very interesting. For the wedding ceremony, it lasts several hours, which I would go absolutely crazy. I can barely make it through a full hour long Catholic Mass type wedding. I hate those. Yeah. They're uncomfortable. Can you imagine a few hours? Yeah. My wedding ceremony lasted about four and a half minutes, maybe six. Was the preacher like, bingo bango, you guys are yes. Well, the preacher was my father in law, so he put a scotch down and said, by the power of the Internet, you are a man and wife. Nice. Yeah. Okay, well, multiply that by several hours. Right. And then it's done. And everybody starts feasting. And then the first night yes. Chuck is spent at the bride's parents house. So nothing else needs to be said about that. No, but since they've been on Rum Springer, that means that there's probably plenty of Amish kids, amish married couples who weren't virgins at marriage. Oh, can they do the sex when they are on Rum Spring? I have the impression that you can do anything you want on Rum Spring interest, including crystal meth. Well, and it doesn't necessarily indicate that the Amish are anti intercourse or anything. No, I mean, I think if you're married and it's a blessed union from God, then feel free. Sure. In a one room house with your new in laws in the next bet. Yeah. Feel free. Yes, totally free. And then, like you said, check. The honeymoon is on weekends, because, of course, during the week, you're working like nothing happened. Yes. But on weekends, you go around and visit family and stay with them for the weekends. Yeah, which is pretty cool. Probably more butter turns. Right. And then you're set up. After six months, you're living with the bride's parents, and then after six months or a year, one of the two, it's time to get your own place. And remember, this Amish guy who's like, 20 or 21, hasn't spent his whole life saving up for this. Yeah. He didn't have a pot to milk into. Right. Macau. Now, which is interesting, you say that. We'll get to that and get to that. No, but there is a community pot, which everyone is expected to throw into and from this community pot and from any familial help the kids get their own farm. Sure. They buy the farm. Yeah. We'll raise you a barn. Nice. Lovely young couple. Yeah. Have you ever seen Witness? You know, it's on my TiVo right now. It's a great I have never seen it, though. Good movie. And it's been sitting there for weeks. Yeah. When Harrison Ford's outer veneer finally cracks and he comes to see the value of the Amish way of life. Is that how misunderstood they are? It's beautiful. Sure. But there's a barn raising in there, and everybody gets together. They build the walls and then push them up, and everybody is pitching in. It's a very communal affair. Well, you have to that's one of the tenants of being Amish is you have to lend a hand. Definitely. Unless it's in a combat situation. Right. So if your Amish neighbor, if you see him coming over with a hammer in his hand, you don't, like, pull the blind shut and lock the door. Like, I would need to get off. No, you got to go help the guy. Yeah. It's all about the community. Right. So the kids are all set up. They have their house. Sure. They raise the barn. Let's look around inside. We'll go out to the barn in a minute. Okay. But we're inside, right? Sure. And it looks pretty much like the 18th century. Yeah. It's not fancy, obviously. There's no gadgets or anything like that. Right. Very plain handmade furniture. You know what you might find that, Josh? What? You might find a modern stove if it burns wood. Yeah. It seems like there's a lot of contradictions here there in Amish life. Like, why would you have a modern appliance? The point is, you'd have a modern appliance that burns wood or can run on gas. Because remember, you can use gas as long as you're not connected to the grid, like a or something. But it makes sense because it's cheaper. It's going to use less source energy. Yeah. It's going to require less input. Sure. And think about it. If you get like an antique or like a reproduction old wood burning stove, that thing is going to cost you a mint. And it's actually kind of vain that you would do. Yeah, very vain. So yeah. You might find something that makes life easier that doesn't radically undermine the community structure. Yes. And you're not being vain about yeah. If a technology makes it through that criteria, then it might be adopted. Yeah. And if it passes the ordinance and one of the examples in the article thought was good is, for instance, the use of nylon rope instead of hemp rope. Right. If it can accomplish what you need to get done and doesn't disrupt or bring attention to itself, then they may accept this new technology. As long as you can still have that communion twice a year, that's fine. Right. And watch the feet. Right. Let's go out into the dairy barn, chuck, our socks are about to be blown off, dude. Right. You know why? Yeah. Because, dude, there is not the little Amish man sitting on a stool with a pale milking a cow. No. They may do that for their own milk, but they have modern equipment. Yeah. Refrigerated tanks running on electricity, milking machines. Yeah. And the reason why is because the Amish aren't dumb. They know that they are living in 21st century America. Of course, they also realize there is such a thing as the FDA, and if they're trying to sell their milk, then they have to meet those basic standards. In 21st century America, those basic standards include electricity powered cooling tanks and milk pumping and stuff like that. You're running an actual dairy farm. Right. And you have to kind of meet those standards. This place is crazy. It's humming. Move. But of course, it's run by the generator still because they're still off the grid. Right. I found it interesting that they I'm sure it hasn't been a picnic or easy, but they seem to have worked with the US government over the years and kind of working some of these things out. Like school. Yeah. Like compulsory education. They let them go do their own school. The 8th grade is when they're required to go, and they kind of just said, all right, if you're going to school your kids that way, that's fine. Yeah. The taxes stay here. They don't have to pay Social Security tax. No. And they don't borrow. No. They do pay tax, though. Yeah, they do. Like, they pay property taxes and stuff, just not Social Security tax because they don't draw Social Security or Medicare. Because you and I are never going to see a penny of Social Security and we still pay it. Yeah, no kidding. Maybe you should grow a beard with no mustache. Okay. We should both do that. Yeah. It looks kind of goofy. I think it looks cool, like Stevie Coop. Yeah. It's such a look, though. It's a really specific look. It definitely is. Chuck, we said that they don't borrow, but they do engage in trade. Somebody's got to buy that milk, right? Yeah. So what they do is they deal with middlemen as often as possible. Generally, these are Mennonites because the Mennonites are very similar to the Amish. Right. But the Mennonites have no rules against socializing with the outside world. So if you have the Amish who stick to themselves, socialize with as few people as possible, you get a couple of good Men and Nights who have some stores or whatever that will sell your stuff, and they turn around and sell it to everybody else. It works out great. It definitely does. They say, hey, we need five utility sheds this month. Go build them. They build them. They go and pick them up from them, sell them to the people, deliver them cash. They do use lumber, we should point out. They obviously don't make their own paint and shingles and things like that and mill their own wood, although some of them might mill wood. But they do order to get orders from lumberyards and they'll bring the stuff out to them, accept payment on the spot just to make it easy. Right. Cash or barter. Obviously, they still don't throw the amex black down. No. I mean, if they don't have cash, they just don't do it. Yeah. But yeah, if they can barter, I think that's probably preferable. Right. And they go to other mom and pop stores here and there, but you probably won't find any Walmart in Lancaster County. No. With a lot of buggies in the parking lot. No, it's a little too Gearish. And actually, they said that the tourism that surrounded around the Amish way of life. People look for stores with buggies out front or whatever, and then they come there, of course, just to go see the Amish. Right? Yeah. But if they're encountering a smart mom and pop store owner, they probably just have a couple of buggies that are out front all the time, and the Amish aren't anywhere around, but it still draws the tourists. The Amish are really off the beaten path on some back road store that doesn't even have a sign that they just heard of by word of mouth, because this person opened just to deal with the Amish. Well, they said that's a good way to get some pretty steady business. Right. Open up a mom and make your own sign. Right. Don't get a neon sign in the window. They don't like neon. Just be smart. And we're talking about the Ordone right? Ordinance and how that serves as the keystone, the foundation of all Amish life. But it's also something can be passed through it. It's a prism that new technologies passed through. Right. Yeah. And then they agree on whether it harms them or not. And if it doesn't, they adopt it. One of the things that I found interesting was that out of the necessity for travel with more and more Amish moving out to Utah, you can't just go through the horse and buggy. So what they've determined is that if you don't own or operate a mechanical vehicle, you can still travel in it. Which means they can fly on an airplane because they don't own it and they're not operating it. Right. And I think that's cool how it's still I think that's probably how they've managed to survive. And actually, in the last 50 years, their number has tripled. They're about 1000 Amish living in the US. They're booming. Yes. And they're thriving, I think, because they've figured out how to adapt and evolve sure. As little as possible. But they're still adapting and evolving. I think that's pretty cool. Personally. It means they're not, as the article says, stuck in time and completely closed off to everything. They just only adopt something if it really helps their way of life without causing negative impact on their life. Right. Seems pretty open minded to me. It's the Amish in a nutshell, I got to tell you. A lot of the Amish stuff that made me not want to run off and be Amish, but they kind of have it going on. They got the right idea about so many things. You don't have to be Amish to live a simpler life. There's all kinds of stuff. And, you know, you can join the Amish. I read that it is possible to be accepted even though you were not born and raised Amish. But it really doesn't happen very often at all because, hey, they're not looking to recruit. They don't proselytize, go door to door like some Christians do. Sure. So chances are you're not going to just hear about it and want to do it. Second of all, you need to speak the language low German. So if you speak low German, you might have a good chance. And thirdly, it's just not very often that someone would want to grow up in the secular world and just get rid of all that. Unless they join some hippie commune. Sure. Or unless they're Harrison Ford. Yeah. Did he join? Is that what happened? Yeah. I think in the end, if I remember correctly, he joined, he goes back, or something like that. I think that's it. Right, Chuck? It's like Jerry's looking at it's like yeah, it's been like 70 minutes? Has it has it been that long? It's close. Because I had one other thing about the funeral. What is it? Well, funeral is much like you would think. It's a plain wooden box and they do utilize the services of an embalmer. But there are no flowers, there's no singing. Even at the funeral, they actually quote lines from him. They speak them only. Wow. But they wear white at funerals, usually. And they do not praise the dead, just respect. So even in death there's not like adulation heaped on anyone. It's all very much just like daniel Proctor did a very fine thing in his life and now he is dead. He could churn butter. What's the best of it? And he did. Now, that would be too much idolizing. Let me say this real quick to Chuck. One of the coolest photos I've ever seen in my entire life was taken at a funeral of a person whose house was ravaged by Hurricane Katrina. Yes. And this is like a couple of years after an Amish couple who I guess had made friends with the person was attending the funeral. Really? Among all the English. And everybody else is just dressed normally. And there's this very solemn steadfast couple, youngish Amish couple in their thirty s, I would say, just at this guy's funeral is really awesome. It's cool. We should also point out they don't shun medicine. They're not Christian Scientists. They leave that up to the individual. Right. So if someone has an accident, they will actually get into an ambulance and go to the hospital. And speaking of accidents, to prevent those, they have come to accept putting flashers and orange hazard triangles on their buggies because it's just common sense. Sure. And the Amish have that in aces. Yeah. This is just a small bit, though. Like the Lancaster County Amish are like 10% of the Amish. And this is really who we've been talking about. Yes. There are other sectors. It's all local. Thernong is decentralized. I mean, that is the central authority, but it's all interpreted on the local level. So what one Amish group believes is not necessarily the exact same as the other. So that was the twist at the end that Chuck just gave. Right? We were talking about the Lancaster County Amish the whole time, right? Memento. I thought you're going to say m night, Shamalanxia. That stupid movie the Village. I thought that twist is pretty cool, but I don't know if the whole movie was worth working up to it. That was awful. So check with it. Okay? All right. Yeah. If you want to know more about the Amish handy search, bar, et cetera, check the time for listening, ma'am. You must be on the I'm tired of Jerry staring at me like this is making me nervous. I'm going to call this email. My father in law, Kurt, Josh and Chuck conducted a primitive tribe contact in the early 80s. So this is about the unknown people. His stories are really wild. This is an oblivion portion of the Amazon rainforest. Anyway, they got attacked by Uki natives who saw past the banana and other offerings. So I guess they offered banana and they were like, not so much. Yeah, we've got tons of that. His translator took a six foot arrow in the back, and I think that's called a spear. Well, that's what I was going to say. And you would think so, buddy, but listen to this. They had two man bows. One guy would hold the bow and the other guy would pull back the line. Wow. So it was, in fact, a six foot arrow. Kurt still has one of the other arrows retrieved from the site. In fact, they have all kinds of pictures in the photo album, including pictures of my wife, who was four and five in the buff, because everyone was in the buff. The tribes, before they lived in a little hut. Wait, this guy married a tribes person? No, he was just doing work there. Okay. They lived off the land in a little hut and worked to build an airstrip to fly supplies for an outpost. Very unamished. My mother in law can prepare a wild chicken. Very amish. Okay. And she and Kerr have gone to special kind of preparatory boot camp. And he is one of my heroes. So that is from Ryan in Lynchburg. And his wife Crystal wrote me shortly thereafter to set the record straight on some of Ryan's facts. But I'm not going to read Crystals because Ryan's is much more interesting. So he made up the two man bow? No, she just said it sounds way more Indiana Jones than it really was. And it was really like this. But we'll just keep the fanciful version alive. Thank you, Ryan. And Crystal. Yeah. And here's to your four year long courtship, which we can only imagine, right? Yeah. If you've had an extended courtship and have a great relationship to speak of because of it, we want to hear about it. Tell us your sweet, romantic stories in time for Valentine's Day. You can send it in an email to stuffpodcast@howstuffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstofworks.com. Want more housetofworks? Check out our blog on the housetofworks.com homepage, brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means schools out, the sun's shining, the daylights longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon music my Favorite Murder from Exactly Right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgarif and Georgia Hardstarke, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | ||
ef9fd231-4339-4a01-b692-aebb0001f1bc | The Appalachian Trail: A Heckuva Hike | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/the-appalachian-trail-a-heckuva-hike | A few short years after the hiking trails from Maine to Georgia were connected into the world’s longest hiking-only footpath, a WWII vet walked the whole thing in one go. He kicked off a challenge that’s still taken on by thousands of people each year.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | A few short years after the hiking trails from Maine to Georgia were connected into the world’s longest hiking-only footpath, a WWII vet walked the whole thing in one go. He kicked off a challenge that’s still taken on by thousands of people each year.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | Tue, 21 Jun 2022 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2022, tm_mon=6, tm_mday=21, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=172, tm_isdst=0) | 49121577 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. Jerry's here, too. And this is stuff you should know. The get out there there and do an addition. Just a couple of no bows hanging out in front of the mic. And if you don't know what a nobo is, prepare to learn. I thought you were going to give me a trail name. I couldn't think of what I was how about Starfish? You're Starfish. All right. What are you you're like, I don't know what eats a Starfish? I'll be Jellyfish. Jellyfish. Okay. And Jerry will be sunfish. Our little sunfish. Yeah. And it will make sense as long as we hike together. But if one of us gets ahead of the other or behind the other, then it'll just seem weird. Finally, we're talking about the Appalachian Trail. Boy, we've been asked many times over the years to cover this, generally by three hikers that I'm listening to your show as I hike from Georgia to Maine. And we're finally getting down to it. It is about time, for sure. And a big thank you to Dave Rus for helping us with this one. I don't believe he ever threw hike the at, which makes this even more impressive, all the info he came up with. You ever hiked any of the at? I think I accidentally did, and maybe Unicorn State Park and didn't realize that's what I was doing. I had no idea I was on the at. But now I had a friend named Mitch who I went to high school with. Not Dirty Mitch from the Scabies episode. A different Mitch. Sure. I don't know about that, but still medium sure. A few years after high school, he threw hike the at, and he was the first, and I think maybe the only person I know who has my friend's older brother hiked the at with his dog. Nice. His sort of regular doughy black Lab. And, dude, that dog came back ripped. Oh, bet like a black Lab that was built like a pit bull. Yeah, I can imagine. Because one of the most physically demanding things you can do is through hike the Appalachian Trail. And through hike means that you hike the whole 2194.3 miles from Georgia to Maine or Maine to Georgia in one straight shot, usually averaging about four to five to six months to do it. That's right. Well, not necessarily in one straight shot, as we'll see, because you can do it in leapfrog it and do it in chunks. And I think it all counts as long as you do it within the same year. Yeah, but for me and I used to want to do this, I had a big, gigantic at poster that hung on my walls for many years, and my time has passed to do this. But I think my new goal is I would like to hike the entire georgia portion. Okay. At some point. I have hiked portions of it in Georgia. But when I wanted to hike the at. I was always of the mindset. Not that there's any right or wrong way to do it. But I wanted to do it just all in one go and not do it in chunks and just start out at Springer Mountain in Georgia and end up with a the mountain in Maine. Canada, that's right. Yeah. That's a true hike, for sure. And you would be a nobo, like you said, going from Georgia to Maine. If you went from Maine to Georgia, which is, again, another way you can do it, you'd be a SoBo for south bound. But the thing is, I think 3 million people hike on the at every year. Some little segment or portion. They're called section hikers. Anyone who doesn't hike the whole thing in one shot is a section hiker. But of those 3 million people, just a few or several thousand people try it, try through hiking every year. And only one in four of them is successful because it's so hard to do. Yeah, it is the longest hike only footpath in the world. There are longer trails, for sure, and at some point we might do one on the great Pacific Crest Trail. But you can take pack mules and horses on the Pct. You are not allowed to. You can only take your body and your own feet on the Appalachian Trail. Yeah. As Dave puts it, on the at, the pack animal is you. That's a great line. So in addition to it just being really long, Chuck, there's a lot of ups and downs, there's a lot of crazy terrain, there's a lot of dangers that we'll see, but those ups and downs amount to over that whole distance, 464,500ft of elevation gain and loss, and Mount Everest is about 29 0ft. So if you started at sea level and walked up and down Everest, you'd have to do that eight times to equal that amount of elevation gain or loss that you're going to walk along the Appalachian Trail in that one straight shot. That's right. That is not to say I mean, those are apples to oranges, but that just puts it into perspective. Sure. A lot of mountains you're hiking up and down. I never claimed they were both apples. No, I know. I don't want people that have climbed Everest to be like, dude, you can't even compare the two. That is such a good Everest climber impression almost died up there. All right, so let's talk about this history wise. The original human being that thought this was a good idea was named Benton McKay. Who obviously was a hiker in the New England area and went to habit. Got a degree in forestry and worked as a land use planner and was hiking along in Vermont one day in the Green Mountains. Climbed a big tree. Looked out upon all the peaks. Those nice little rounded peaks of the Appalachian Mountains. Not like the Rocky Mountains we've talked about that why? It's because of wind. And said, you know what? That's amazing. I've been trying to interlink trails in New England to make hikes longer. Is it even possible? Could we link a trail from Georgia to Maine all along this Appalachian range? Yeah, and that's a great first thought, but then he had plenty of successive follow up thoughts about that idea. He wrote a paper called An Appalachian Trail, a project in regional planning in 1921. And he basically said, hey, in addition to this interconnected trail that forms one big trail along the Appalachians, we can also build shelters for people hiking. We can build community camps. We can build farms that are run by labor unions and basically socialize the woods to give people a chance to get away from the rest of the world. Yeah, it was like a really grand plan, and one that's super admirable, I think. Yeah, for sure. I admire it. And, yeah, the thing is, as they put it, he was the tree hugger who came up with this idea, and he definitely was, and he had a real vision for it. And people came along and said, that is a great idea. We're going to really trim off this fat about socialism and labor unions and stuff, but the rest of it we really like. And McKay was like, hey, what do you mean fat? And it just kind of got taken away from him from there. Well, sort of. He still worked a lot with this other guy who came along who we're going to talk about, named Myron Avery. And this is how Dave put it. By all accounts, Myron Avery was a great a jerk. Here's the thing. Myron Avery was a lawyer, a maritime attorney, a big time hiker from Washington, DC. Who took charge of the project in 1930 and everything. I read up a lot about this guy because anytime I see someone just kind of categorize as a big time jerk, I'm kind of curious because it's probably complicated, and it sounds like he was very stubborn, and he was a perfectionist, and he kind of just didn't want to listen to other people. He would go into a community, and they would have ideas like, hey, why don't you get the community on board with this and get some community support? And he was like, no. He was like, we should just make this trail. And then they'll see the benefit. The locals will see the benefit and its value afterward, and all we need to do is just blaze forward, no pun intended, as you'll see, and just do this thing. And it sounded like he was just really tenacious, and he did burn bridges, and it sounded like he had a big ego, and he may have been a bit of a jerk and a bully, but I think it's probably a little more complicated than to just say he was a big ahole for sure, but he was enough of an ahole. Are we saying that now? No, I mean, I just did. Okay. He was enough of one of those that he and Mikai had a falling out, and Mikhay stayed away from the Appalachian Trail conservancy, which Myron Avery led until Myron Avery died, age 52, of a heart attack from being such a type A personality. Yeah, they worked together for a while and then eventually couldn't sort of see eye to eye, so he backed out. Have you ever read the book A Walk in the woods by Bill Bryson? No, but I'd like to. Chuck, you will love it. Did you read it? Oh, yeah. It's one of those. Best in your late teens, early 20s. But I think you would appreciate it no matter what your age. It's just a great book, and he's such a great writer, and his companion on the trail is just such great foil and comic relief. It's just a really good book. But in it, he described Myron Avery as blazing two trails from Georgia to Maine. One was of hurt feelings and bruised egos. The other was the at. Well, for his stubborn efforts, the east peak of Bigelow Mountain in Maine is now called Avery Peak. Oh, that's nice. Or Ahole Peak. Oh, boy. So Avery did walk the Appalachian Trail. He mapped, apparently, every square inch of it, because, again, he was in charge of it. And he was such a pragmatic and totally driven visionary that he got the at completed in seven years, and it opened to the public in 1937 because of him. That's right. And after it was completed, everyone was like, this thing is great, but is anyone ever going to I know you link these trails, but is anyone even capable of hiking this whole thing? And we will let you know if that's possible. Well, or at least who made that possible. Right after this drum roll. You need to change your drum head, my friend. We need to work on our timing, too. Okay. What does that mean? I finished my drum roll and you were still talking about my drum heads. Sorry. Let's try it again. No, that's great. You've been working it's really good. Yes, we know that we can complete the at. We're being coy. Many people have done it. But the very first time that it was done was but eleven years after it opened. And a man named Earl Shaffer, Pennsylvania, from York County, world War Two. Vet who what we call this now is PTSD. Back then, they just called it suffering from war demons. But he clearly had some kind of PTSD and was quoted as saying he wanted to walk the army out of his system and started at the time, it was not at Springer Mountain in Georgia. At the time. It was Mount Oglethorpe. In Georgia on April 4, 1948, and didn't even have a tent. Now he had a poncho that he slept under, had paper maps, he had a compass. He was wearing Russell mockeson company's bird shooter boots. And they still make those, actually, they're nice looking boots, but I would not want to take the at in them. Okay. They're very expensive. They're like $450, but I believe they're so hand made that you can find, like, fingernail clippings in them. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's handmade, chuck, that is super handmade. So he did this in 124 days, the first guy to ever threw hike, the at did it way above average of what people do today. Yeah, he was making about 16 miles a day on average. So not only did he set the bar by being the first person to threw hike, he set a really high bar as far as records to break. Like, that wasn't just something the second person was going to do better then. Yeah, for sure. His advice was, carry as little as possible, but choose that little with care. And everyone said, duh, and he went, Shut up. I'm the first one to do it. I get to have my advice given out. And he did it again just to prove himself in 1965, and was the first person to do it both ways, in both directions. And then at almost 80 years old, in the late 90s, he did it one more time. Yeah. And there's other trail legends, but he was definitely the first. They call them crazy one. Earl Shafer. Yeah. And then original crazy one, apparently. Yeah. I guess there was somebody who was just as crazy who came along. Well, I'm sure a lot of people are like, oh, I'm going to be crazy One, too. You don't steal his name? No, that's his trail name. So, Charles, we said that the Appalachian Trail goes from Georgia Springer Mountain to Mount Canadian and Maine. And as it winds from one place to the other, it goes through 14 different states, some more than others. Virginia, it goes for about 550 plus miles. West Virginia, which is very jealous of Virginia in this respect, only has 18 miles of Appalachian Trail. Yeah, that's what I said, too. But if you add all these together, a couple of hundred miles here, tens of miles here, you have this whole 2194 miles trail, and on average, it takes a through hiker, about 165 days, which, again, this is today with modern amazing gear, people average 165 days. And Earl Shaffer did it in 124 back in 1948. Right. With fingernail boots. Right, exactly. It just makes his accomplishment that much more amazing. But one guy showed up, Earl Shafer like nobody's business, didn't he? Yeah. A trail runner named Joe McConaughey in 2017, averaged 50 miles a day to complete the at in 45 days, 12 hours and 15 minutes. That's nuts. I had my little blaze pun earlier. If you've ever hiked any portion of the at, you will know about the blazes. If you've never hiked the at, you may wonder how do you know that you're still on the at and you don't accidentally go off on another trail, which is possible, but it is marked with little blazes. It's a rectangular piece of paint. Piece of paint. It's a rectangular swash of paint, brushstroke of paint. And they're about, I don't know, I feel like they're about six by three inches or so. Okay. And they are on trees and rocks about every 70ft or so. It is a very, very well marked, well trod trail. That's hard to say. Sure. So don't be afraid of getting lost. And there are plenty of people on it. It is not to say you should go into it lightly or without any preparation, but it is pretty easy to find your way along the at. Yes, it is. And you're going to encounter plenty of people along it too, because remember, 3 million people a year hike it to some extent. And again, there are thousands and thousands of people who are NOBOs or so bows trying to through hike at any given on any given year. And because of the weather and the distance that you're covering, you're actually going through the at in different seasons. So there's actually like certain windows depending on which direction you're going, north or south, where you can hike the at. So all of those thousands of people are not spread out over a full year. They're actually kind of condensed in four or five or six month periods on any given year. So you're definitely going to have lots of companions on the trail whether you like them or not. Yeah, well, trail sex is a thing too. Yeah, I saw it's. Not nearly as much as you would think. Yeah, I'm sure. Okay. I don't know. I'm sure these dirty hippies out there just sweating it up for days at a time. Don't mind knocking boots under the stars, but no, it's not the sexiest way to do things. I saw that. That was saved for town. Okay. Like your zero day. Like you take a down day, maybe stay in a cheap hotel, take a shower, meet a friend. Starfish, meat and jellyfish, meet starfish. Right. And they have sunfish. Sure that something weird just happened. I'm glad we planned that out and came full circle. So if you are a nobo, you are going to want to and if you want to hike the at, there are books out there and websites and blogs that will tell you very specifically, exactly. You can map it down to the day if you want, like day one, day two, or you can kind of do your own thing. But generally if you're a nobo, you're probably going to want to start at Springer Mountain in the early spring in like March or April. So those first few months actually you're going to be hiking in pretty good weather as far as it getting too hot, it will get elevation. You can get snow still for sure in March and April in North Carolina and Tennessee, even parts of Georgia. So the disadvantage there is that you will have to pack some cold weather gear for your 1st 500 miles or so, which you can ditch and mail home at some point if you want. Right. But you have a much longer stretch of time to finish your through hike than you do if you're going from Maine to Georgia or southbound. And because you have a much more limited window of about four to five months, you have to cover a lot of miles every day. So being a solo, if you see a SoBo on the trail, this is probably not their first hike. They're usually pretty experienced and can make it over some unforgiving terrain a lot faster than the average hiker, I would guess for sure. And you talked about the amount of people hiking there is something called the bubble. So early on in March and April, the nobo areas get pretty. And when we say congested, it's not like you're surrounded by hundreds of people, but it definitely thins out as you go. Yeah, but that's a real advantage to being a SoBo is far fewer people start north to south. So you're going to run into a lot less people at the time. And by the time you do start to south and by the time you do start running into those original members of the bubble, they thinned out. Because again, remember, only one in four people make it all the way through the at. And it's not like they all make it close to the end. People burn out at different spots along the way. Yeah, and then I mentioned at the very beginning the flip flopping technique. That is when you're doing it in chunks to really try and get the best weather everywhere you are at the time. And there's a leapfrogging route where you would start in Georgia in April, late April, just so you maybe don't get that snow that we were talking about. You hike to West Virginia to Harpers Ferry and then you leapfrog and take a car. You could take a train anyway. You would normally get somewhere not by foot. You would go to Great Barrington, Massachusetts, then hike north from there to finish up by September before that cold weather. And then you leapfrog back down to Great Barrington and hike that southern portion back down to Harper's Ferry that you skipped. And there you have it. If you ever want to hike the at, just pack a backpack and listen to what Chuck just said and just go for it. You don't need any other information. That's correct. I think actually you do need a tremendous amount of information and luckily there's a lot of information out there on the web a lot of really good free advice if you are thinking about hiking the ATM. Sure you have already found a lot of these, but a good place to start if this episode inspires you is probably the subreddit for the Apple etching. Trail. I noticed there's a ton of good advice on there and just whatever question you have, just ask it and type Appalachian Trail. And there's probably pages and pages of people who have great advice and suggestions on how to do this. And we'll share a little bit with you right now about sleeping and eating. Yeah, I used to do plenty of backpacking, so I'm familiar with all this stuff. Now I'm a car camper mainly, but I am going to get back into backpacking at some point. Okay, but I still have all that gear. But boy, it's a lot lighter now than when I bought it. You can get an ultralight tent these days that weigh less than 20oz, my friend. It's about weight. One point \u00a317. That's like the weight of a cockatiel. A big one. That's right. So leave your cockatiel at home, too. You're going to want an ultralight tent unless you're going to really either sleep in a hammock or just sleep under the ground under a tarp or something. But I would suggest an ultralight tent. But there are 250 shelters along the way. I've slept in a couple of these. It's just two walls in a roof and sort of like a small deck that you're sleeping on. And it's first come, first serve. Some of them have little outhouses, some of them don't. They're usually near water, like a river or something. And I have camped on these with strangers and it can be a lot of fun sometimes meeting people like that. Oh, yeah. If you're going to through hike, the at, you need to get used to interacting with strangers in close quarters, just for times like this. But also on the trail, you run into lots of strangers and a lot of times they want to stop and talk or whatever. But I saw that those rustic shelters are first come, first serve. So even if you meticulously planned your hike to hit one of these, did you say they're about 8 miles apart? I didn't, but that's about right. Yeah. And that's an average day's walk for very average hikers. And they purposely spread them out like that. And they're a little further spread out if there's a town in between them with hotels and hostels and all that. But you can meticulously plan your route so that you hit one of these shelters every night so that you have shelter without needing a tent. But if there's a lot of people on the trail, you may be sol when you show up at that shelter because it's full up with eight people in their sleeping bags and there's no room for you. Yeah, that's when you're going to want that tent as a backup at the very least. And you can camp right behind the shelter if you still want to hang out with people, because I don't know if we mentioned this, there are a lot of different reasons people hike the at. Some people really want to get away from people, but for what? I have read and talk to people who have done it, even those people, when you're out there for five and a half months, can enjoy talking with someone every few days. You know what I mean? Even the weirdos want to talk to people sometimes. There's probably names for everything. They're probably named for people that don't want to socialize. Like a little at sort of made up name they give them sure. Trail hermitz all back. Yeah. Termites. Termites, yeah, termites is what they call them. Yeah, we've been in cockney rhyming slang here. Food is another thing. Obviously you're going to be eating a lot of calories or at least burning up a lot of calories, and ideally replenishing those calories with food. You will lose a ton of weight hiking the at. If you're a true hiker and you need about \u00a32 of food a day, and you want to resupply generally every three to ten days, depending on kind of how you want to plan it out and how much weight you want to carry. And there are great books, again, that can tell you exactly how to do this, but you're either going to be replenishing on the trail when you hit a town or a lot of people mail or have family members mail their stuff ahead of time to post offices that you'll hit. Yeah, some people mail their own stuff, or they have friends and family do it for them. And there's a lot of websites dedicated to teaching you how to do that successfully and giving you the addresses you need and where you can and can't send stuff. But the upshot is that you're not going to have to carry your five month supply of food with you the whole time. People have figured out how to not do it. And there's no shame whatsoever in going into town not only to eat or to resupply and restock up on food, but also to sleep, too. Like people take zero days, I think you mentioned earlier where you just take the day off or maybe even two days off if you're particularly burned out and you just kind of recuperate and recharge and get back on the trail after that. So that's definitely part of at culture that's not like cheating or anything like that. Yeah, absolutely. And apparently it's a tradition to go on a feast when you're in a town just to really eat just a bunch of high calorie junk to load up on calories and I think maybe satisfy a certain urge that's not being met on the trail when you're eating. Dave calls it gorp. I'd never heard it called that, but like trail mix and freeze dried food and stuff like that. Even though that stuff has come a long way and how good it tastes, I will say that I looked it up. Gorp stands for good old Raisins and peanuts. Okay. Isn't that delightful? That may be a regional thing. I've never heard anyone call it that here. Yeah, I have never heard it either, which is why I was like, what is this Gorp stuff? I'm glad I didn't know it's an acronym. It definitely does not accurately convey what it's talking about because Gorp sounds disgusting, but Raisins and Peanuts are not disgusting. Yeah. Dave also has in here the average cost of gear that you buy is about $1,000. I think that can vary wildly. I think it really depends on how much gear you already have, because that \u00a31 tent that I was talking about is a $700 tent. Oh, yeah. No, definitely. You can also buy your stuff off of Ebay or Craigslist or something like that and probably save a tremendous amount of money compared to going to rei and buying everything brand new. And also, especially if you're a first timer, you're definitely going to over purchase, over plan, and over pack. So I would guess if you're a first time through hiker, you are going to spend substantially more than you would on maybe your second attempt. Yeah. And I think at the beginning of no matter where you start in Maine, and it's weird that he can do this in both places, but Sam Elliot is at the front at the trailhead going through your pack and saying, you don't need this, you don't need this. Get rid of this. Why would you even have this? And just tearing your pack apart, basically, until you're down to that ultralight tent and some corp. Yeah. And by proxy, tearing you apart psychologically. Yeah. He was kind of a jerk lately about that power of the dog. Maybe I forgot about that. What do you mean he was a jerk? What do you do? The power of the dog came out and he was just kind of like these candy butts in their homosexual cowboy notions. And really? That's not the West I knew that's his problem. Yeah, he knew he was born in, like, 1950, sort of crotchety old guy, homophobic crotchety old guy, which was very disappointing because that's great, Sam Elliott. But getting back to the money, you're going to spend about a grand a month. Just say that. At least plan on about $1,000 a month. So between five and $7,000, depending on how long you're going to take to hike it. Yes. So cough up the Simoleons, everybody are prepared to and also prepare to listen to some commercials because we're going to take a break real quick. All right, well, let's talk weather. If you're hiking the ate, we mentioned potentially the snow at the beginning of the northbound route, or Maine is. Crazy. You might get a late snow in May or early June and May even, at elevation. So you're going to have some cold weather to contend with for a little while at least, right? Yes, one way or another. And again, if you have cold weather stuff that you need to eventually ditch, you don't have to plan on carrying it the whole time. You can go to one of those same post offices that you pick up your mail drop at and mail it back. Mail back your cold weather gear. Leave a little trail magic for someone, you know what I'm saying? Here you go. I wonder. I'll bet a lot of people do that, to tell you the truth. Yeah. And then hypothermia, because there's cold weather associated with the hike. It's a real problem. And it's not just from being snowed on. It's actually much less likely from being snowed on. It's more likely from being hit by a cold rain and being soaked and then hit with some very cold wind, which can happen at high altitudes. And all of a sudden your core temperature is dropping very quickly. So you have to get naked and try to warm up as fast as you can. That's right. The clothing that they make these days is amazing. It's very lightweight. These synthetic weaves that wick the water away, they dry out super fast. It is not like the stuff in the Shaffer days. And this other wonderful hero that we're going to talk about in a little bit, this woman, I cannot wait to get to her. But you're also going to hit really hot, humid, balmy weather in the thick of it in the summer. In the middle of that hike, you're going to be depleted of your electrolytes and your salts. You could suffer from cramping and heat stroke and heat exhaustion. So they say to count on a couple of liters of water a day. And obviously you're not going to carry that much weight, so you're going to want to use and I got one of these too, one of those beautiful little lightweight water purifying systems that you just kind of pump into your water bottle from a running beautiful stream. Yes. You pump and dump into your water bottle. That's right. And then also, Chuck, you want to keep up with your water, you really need to keep up with your calories because like you said, you're going to lose a ton of weight. And apparently, even if you ate 4000 calories a day, by the time you are done with your through hike, on average you would have probably lost ten to \u00a320 and you would look like a black lab that is ripped like a pit bull. Yeah, that's right. And that's a cool reason to do it. It is. But I also saw that it can lead to a lot of guilt or shame when you start to gain your weight back, because everybody's been telling you how amazing you look. And then when you get back to normal life, it can be really difficult. Right. There's something called hikers hunger where it is you are just starving, and you can eat those incredible large amounts of food, calorie dense food, and just keep shedding the pounds because you're exerting yourself so much. But when you get off of the trail, when you're done, you're not exerting yourself any longer. But that hiker's hunger can still linger. So you're actually eating way more than you would have before you started the trail. And you really have to kind of keep up with it, or else you can gain whatever weight you have back and then some. But, yeah, I saw that there can be guilt associated with not looking like that any longer after a little while. Yeah. So next time you see a buddy come off of a through hike on the at, don't tell them how amazing they look. Just say, It's good to see you. Yeah, exactly. I'm glad you're back safe. Yeah. And then they'll go, you don't say anything about how great I look. Right. What's wrong with this guy? I thought we were friends. There are animal dangers, of course, snakes and spiders and bears and things like that. Ticks are a big part of the problem. Lyme disease is huge. You're going to get ticks if you hike the at, so you want to check that every night around your ankles and armpits and groin area and waistline and everywhere that ticks, like, to hide out. Dude, I saw that people drop their pants and squat over an iPhone and video, like, run a video of their underside or undercarriage and then watch the video to see if there's any hiding there that they can't feel or the stranger that they met in the thing. They say, hey, I looked at the video a few times. Well, you just give it a once over, right? And the stranger says, I'm a termite. Please leave me alone. Bears, I did mention you don't want your food to be left out. If you are an experienced camper and hiker, you know this stuff. But some places, they have bear boxes, but you can't count on a bear box being there. There are bear proof canisters you can carry, but what you're probably going to do is just what's called a bear hang, which go about 200ft away from your campsite and loop a rope over a tree and pull your food up at least 12ft off the ground. Yeah. Every single night without fail. And they still might get it. Bears are crafty. They are crafty, but at least they're doing it 200ft away from where you're sleeping. Exactly. A lot of people get injured, too, but very few people die. Two to three people out of again, 3 million people die on the at every year. That actually seems like it would be way higher than that. And there have only been I say only, but to me, statistically speaking, it seems low. 13 murders on the trail, and the first one wasn't until 1974. Yes, and I looked this up and they did. I'm not going to bother going on the crazy apples to apples math they had to do to make it work out to just being living in the United States and a regular neighborhood, but they did do that math if you want to go out there and look. But they found that your chances of getting murdered on the at or 1000 times less likely than just being a regular American walking around on a daily basis. Man, I'm really glad you said that because all you have to do is hear about 13 murders on the trailer, some people die, and just the fact that you're putting it in the context of dying out in the woods or being murdered out in the woods, it seems so much worse. So I think that's a really reassuring thing you just said. It is. And I was also curious about sexual assault type of things and of course things go unreported, so I'm not naive enough to think that this accounts for all of them. But they said that there is basically one reported rate every two to three years and it is more dangerous to live on a college campus than it is to hike the at. Boy, I don't know if that makes you feel better or worse depending on if you're on a college campus or not, but the point is it is generally a pretty safe, helpful community out there. Yeah, that's one of the reasons it's safe is because there's such an established culture and there is such tight community out there, not only among strangers, but among the townsfolk this trail goes through or right past some towns that part of their industry is supporting Appalachian Trail through hikers. And so they're really kind and generous and helpful out on the trail. Some people will just go out on the trail who live in town and take like snacks and drinks and stuff and just hand them out to people who are walking on the Appalachian Trail. So, I mean, that's kind of like the vibe in the Zeitgeist on the at. Not everybody's out for themselves. And don't turn your back on a stranger because they'll hit you with a hatchet and take your \u00a31 tent, right? It's nothing like that. It's actually quite the opposite of that from everything I can tell. We have kind of joked around about these trail names, but that is one thing that you do, or at least you're encouraged to do, is give yourself a trail name, only go by that trail name. And it's a symbolic thing that you are leaving your old identity behind for now. You are becoming a new person on the trail and it's kind of fun, I think. Yeah, but I mean, that kind of goes to underscore why people hike the at. And one of them is to just get away from their life, to kind of reset their perspective on things or think things through or go through a transition. And taking a trail name is a really good way to just become somebody different for a little while or not your usual self. It gives you that kind of freedom, I think. Yeah. Don't use the trail named Ted Bundy and you should be fine. Right. You mentioned the towns that are behind this. There is in Damascus, Virginia, in May, there's a week long festival called Trail Days where there's a hiker parade and everyone gets showered with water balloons and water guns and they're sort of celebrated. There's the half gallon ice cream challenge. Or ride a passage in Pine Grove Furnace State Park in Pennsylvania where you get a half gallon of ice cream from Pine Grove Furnace General Store and try to eat the whole thing. That sounds like a lot of fun to me. Oh yeah, definitely. I don't think you have to hike the at to try that also, Chuck. Apparently on the summer solstice in June, there's Hike Naked Day for me. That is the thing. And my friend Mitch told me that he hiked most of it naked. Not just on hike. Naked day. Like there's a lot of naked hiking, or at least there used to be in the late ninety s. Okay, good for Mitch. Yeah, that's what I said, too. And this is medium hygiene Mitch. Right. Not Dirty Mitch. Okay. No one wants to see that. I mentioned trail magic. That is not something I was just making fun of or made up. Trail magic is defined by the at conservancy, as I think people could be cynical about stuff like this. No, the fact that you had to say that, too. It just goes to show how lame the words trail magic are. The at conservancy defines it and it's finding what you need most when you least expect it, or experiencing something rare, extraordinary, or inspiring in nature, or encountering unexpected acts of generosity that restore your faith in humanity. And it is something like, hey man, you need that? I've got that. And here it is. Yeah, that's pretty cool. It also can take the form of even like verbal encouragement from townsfolk and the towns that you walk through. So I want to also clarify, the term trail magic is what I think is lame. That concept of trail magic I think is beautiful. No, I'm with you. I think it's wonderful. And like you said, something inspiring in nature. When you're on the trail, you might see things that you're never ever going to see again for the rest of your life and have never seen before, including some types of animals or just certain views. And that experience can be, there's no other way to put it, magical. That's what helps you when you're kind of on this passage through the at, if you're going through a life transition or if you're trying to figure yourself out, seeing stuff like that, bearing witness to it and letting it impress upon you, that helps that process, I think, probably tremendously. Yeah. Or like somebody filming their butthole with an iPhone. That's right. Trail magic. All right, I think we should close the show. Definitely. In this episode with I think I can speak for both of us and say one of our new favorite amazing women and human beings to ever live, emma Grandma Gatewood true dad, who was the first woman to walk the at by herself all the way back in 1955 when she was 67. And this is 1955. 67. That's like 150 today. Right. And as if that wasn't enough, it just gets better and better. She was the mother of eleven kids. 23 grandkids. Had a 30 year marriage to an awful. Physically abusive husband who apparently would beat her nearly to death at times. Eventually divorced this garbage human. Raised those eleven children by herself. And then in the fifties. Read in that Geo article about the at and about Shaffer's Thru hike in 1953. Told her grandchildren that she was going for a hike in. Quote. And tried to hike the at right then and there. Starting at Mount Canada. Which. Again. If you're a solo. That's for experienced hikers. Not first timer who's going for a hike at age 67 and 1955. So in apparently in very short order, she fell, she broke her glasses, she got lost. She basically turned into Velma from Scooby Doo and she was rescued by Rangers. And you would think, okay, that's the end of the story. That she had a wild hair and she tried it and it didn't work. No. In 1955, two years later, she said, let me try this from Georgia instead. And she was able to through hike the entire Appalachian Trail. Unbelievable. You look up pictures of this lady and you're like, wait a minute, it looks like she's just holding a ruck sack over her shoulder. And that's because that's exactly what she did. She didn't have a backpack. She didn't have a sleeping bag. She didn't have a compass. She had a homemade denim duffel bag that she draped over her shoulder that had a blanket, a shower curtain that she used as a sleeping tarp, basically. Right. She had a canteen for water, apparently, a small pot, a spoon, a Swiss Army knife, some pins, a first aid kit, a flashlight, a piece of rope, a raincoat, a warmer coat and a change of clothes. And she hiked the whole thing in KED's sneakers. Yeah, seven pairs. Did Keds take advantage of this back then? And they're advertising? I don't know. They could probably still take advantage of it. It's that astounding they should. And despite wearing nothing but kids and carrying this denim duffel bag, which I would guess is probably pretty heavy. She managed an average of 14 miles a day. And of course people heard about her, and newspapers started covering her and all that. So Townsville came out and said, like, hey, you can sleep in our house, no charge. We want to feed you and put you up. We just think what you're doing is great. And she said, I appreciate it. But most nights, she slept out on a bed of leaves. Amazing. I salute you, grandma gatewood. There were not many women, obviously, hiking the at the time at all, much less through hiking. I think women make up about a third of all through hikers today. And she went on to hike it, I think, a couple of more times, too, right? Yeah. Two years later, she hiked it again. So she became the first person, man or woman to hike the trail twice, and she did it a third time in 1964. That time she divided into sections. So, yeah, she was definitely again, there's really no other way to put it. She was a trailblazer for women on the attendee, but that's just how you put it. A couple of other standouts we should mention. Just last year in 2021, MJ. Sonny Everhart became the oldest person to complete it through hike at 83 years young. What was Sonny's name on the trail? Nimblewood. Nomad. Very nice. How about that trail magic to it? It does, yeah. The same year, another record was set, the youngest through hiker, a five year old named Harvey Sutton, who started off when he was four and walked it in 209 days with his parents. Unbelievable. Harvey's trail name was little man, and I read an article about this, and it just sounded like a wonderful family experience. And this one guy hiked with the family from somewhere in Pennsylvania through to Maine, just kind of buddied up with them and was like, this kid, at the end of the day, our butts are kicked. And he's like, let's play freeze tag. Oh, my God. Unbelievable. The parents had to work overtime to keep them engaged. And so you can't just be alone with your thoughts for 10 hours a day on the trail with a five year old. Right. You got to be pointing things out and playing little games. So they said that was challenging, but they said they were just closer than they'd ever been as a family, which is pretty cool. That is cool. Did they say anything about feeding them? Because I would find it distressing as a parent to know that I needed to keep up with thousands of calories that my kid needed. So, I mean, hats off to his parents for doing that and then successfully doing it, too. Yeah, I did see that there was another kid that finished it four, named Juniper Netteburg, a young girl that finished it this is amazing. In a wonder woman costume, but apparently did it in sections and took time off I think did it within a year's time, but didn't do the straight through hike like Harvey Sutton did. But big salute to Juniper as well. As well as Bill Irwin, right? Yeah, he definitely bears mentioning. He was the first man who was blind to hike the Appalachian Trail through hike in 1990. And he did it with his dog, Orient. Apparently the pair together were called the Orient Express and it took them eight months. Again, this trail is not just like some well worn dirt path for 2000 miles. No. You're climbing over boulders, you're climbing up mountains, down mountains, you're crossing streams and rivers. Apparently they would do that because Orient would go across and then bark at Bill. So he knew where to swim across this river to get to the other side. This is what they did and they did it in eight months. And he estimates that he fell about 5000 times over that eight months. But he still made it from Georgia to Canada. You know what that means, my friend? He got up 5000 times. That's right. Pretty neat. Chuck. Amazing. Love your brain. Do you love my body? Sure. Starfish. I don't know why this episode is so blue. I don't either, but it sure was. Hopefully it inspired some people to go out and do this. I hope so. It's a very cool thing. I'm glad we finally got around to it. Hopefully there's some through hikers listing right now that can write in and let us know what's going on. Oh, yeah, definitely. Let us know your trail name, too. If you want to know more about the at, just start doing research and there's plenty of stuff out there and hopefully it will draw you out into the woods. And since I said draw you out into the woods, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this kidney donation story. It's pretty great. Okay. Hello, chaps. Love the program. Listen, with more interest than usual to the app on kidney donation, I donated to a family friend a couple of years ago. We actually were in adjoining surgery rooms out of me into him lickety split. Well, we're both doing well. His kids nicknamed the organ Little Kirby after me, which I took as a high compliment. And you asked how you got the kidney out? They do make a three inch long incision low on the bikini line up front and they just slid it out. Wow. So I think it must just sort of flatten out or something. And then they take it and they feed it to the other person and hope it lands in the right spot. That incision was actually the worst part of the recovery. It took about a month to heal up in my case. I told my sisters that they then made you poop the kidney out. And I think part of them wanted to believe me. Thanks for encouraging folks to join the registry. It's well worth it and the need is great. That is from Kirby in South Hadley, Massachusetts. Very nice, Kirby. Hats off to you for doing that. That's amazing. And hats off to everybody who's done that. A few people have written in and let us know that they've done that. So anyone who does that is it AOkay in our book. Agreed. If you want to be like Kirby and let us know how you are, okay. We want to hear. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My HeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows." | |
c560b17a-5460-11e8-b38c-33fda4307dc2 | Selects: How Sea Monsters Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/selects-how-sea-monsters-work | Legends of sea monsters are as old as humanity, and some ancient cultures even credited them with creating the universe. Learn more about humanity's attachment to seeing monsters in the deep in this classic episode. | Legends of sea monsters are as old as humanity, and some ancient cultures even credited them with creating the universe. Learn more about humanity's attachment to seeing monsters in the deep in this classic episode. | Sat, 12 Jun 2021 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2021, tm_mon=6, tm_mday=12, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=163, tm_isdst=0) | 35641551 | audio/mpeg | "Hi, everybody. It's December 2014 and podcast time. This is Chuck, and we're talking about how sea monsters work. This is a great episode from back in the day, I remember. Boy, this is hard to believe. Almost six years ago. Time is really flying, everybody. I'm getting old. This is a fun podcast episode, though. How sea monsters work right here, right now. Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio. Hi and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W. Chuck Bryant there's guest producer Noel There's Nikola Tesla. It's Stephanie Shadow. There's Johnny and Scott. Are those your imaginary friends? No, that was Sigmund, the sea monster. Did you watch that show? No. Once again, the brief cultural divide that spans between us was that from the 70s or early? Yeah, it was one of the Sydney Mardi Croft shows. Oh, HR. Puff and stuff. Yeah, sigmundacy monster. And Johnny and Scott were his buddies. Yeah, he was like, he's a dude in a suit, I reckon. But he looked like a big blob of Kelp. I'm sure it was total nightmare fuel with eyes. It was cool. Sidmarti Croft, man, their sensibility scare me. Yeah. I went to the place once in Atlanta they had down at the Omni, which is now Phillips Arena. They had Sidmarticroft World or whatever. And I went down there once, and looking back now, it was like a drug fueled indoor amusement park. You're like, Why are there so many 20 year olds here? Yeah, I never really put them without kids. Yeah, I'm sure I say this every single time that we talk about sudden Mardi Croft, but you've seen the Mr. Show state of drug Acusetts? Yeah, that's one of the best. I mean, it's hard to pick out for Mr. Show, but that's definitely up there. Yeah, that's top five easy. Yeah. And that's sea monsters. Sea monsters. They're going to get you soon. Is that from a show? No, it's from this show. So, Chuck, are you familiar much with sea monsters when you're researching this, where you're like, everybody knows all this? Sort of half and half. Yeah, I felt similar. There were a lot of stuff, a lot of things in here that I hadn't heard of. And the extra research we did, too, yielded some new insights. But one of the things that stuck out to me, and I guess it's probably the thesis of this whole thing, is that we've been seeing sea monsters for millennia. We've been talking about sea monsters for millennia. Yes. And we still are. Like, have you heard of the Montauk monster? Yes. Did you see pictures of that thing? Yeah, I remember when it came out. Okay. I just heard of it. Oh, really? Yesterday. Oh, I feel bad for not sharing that with you. It's awesome. Yeah. In 2008, what was the beach? It was around Montauk. Yeah, but there was a specific beach. Ditch Plains Beach. This girl and her three friends found this washed up Montauk monster. And I think what's funny is there's a trend here in naming these things sensationally throughout history, and we still do it because they could have called it, like, a decomposed raccoon, but they called it the Montauk Monster. Right. And the jury is not out. It is a decomposed raccoon. Yeah, they pretty much think so. But it's not like you can't prove that. They have, like, a line of biologists from Montauk to Manhattan saying it's a raccoon. It's a raccoon without its fur, which makes it look awesome. I've heard some other paleo zoologists say, like, it may be a sheep, though I think it's too small or other animals. Got you. But it's definitely not a sea monster. No, but this is 2008 we're talking about, and some weird thing washes up on a beach, and around the world, people hear of the Montauk Monster, except for me. Yeah. Did you see the East River monster? I heard that one was a pig. Yeah, it's clearly a pig, but it's still kind of cool looking. But still they named it the East River Monster and not a pig. That was I don't know how the pig got there. Right. The pig of East River or something like that. Yeah, it's probably, like, somewhere in Chinatown, a pig was no good, and they said that thing in the river. That's what they do. Yeah. Also in 2006, there was one in Russia. I didn't see where, but on a beach, something washed up, and they said Sea monster, and it turned out to be a beluga whale carcass, greatly decomposed, but it looked weird. It didn't look anything like a beluga whale. But the point is, still, in the 21st century, whenever the sea spits something up, we're like, this is a monster. Clearly. Obviously. This is a monster. And then biologists come along and say, it's not a monster, but it's this weird thing. Or sometimes they say, this is new. It's not a monster, but this is new. And this is the point, finally, that I'm trying to get to is that the oceans, the seas cover 70% of Earth's surface. Right. That's a lot of hiding places. Sure. And I think humans have known and still know intuitively that there's a lot of stuff down there that we don't know about. We don't know what it is. But over time, science has replaced superstition enough so that while we still know there's stuff out there that we don't know, we don't think of them as monsters. So our mindset has changed somewhat. Yes. But ultimately to see is this place of unknown organisms that we're still learning about. Sure. What's? The 90, 95% of the deepest seas are still completely, like, unresearched and undiscovered. Well, James Cameron just took away a little percentage of that with his deep sea dive. He took away a bit of my soul with every movie he's made since Terminator two oh, really? You like Terminator two? I didn't see that one. Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah, I think that was a good one. Have you not seen Titanic? Did you know that there was an alternate ending for it where they kept the diamond or something? Like the Titanic didn't sink. Right. It worked out well in the end. No. Bill Paxton ended up getting in on throwing the diamond away. That's what it was, I think. Speaking of recent sea monsters, though, which is not a sea monster, but did you see the footage of the angler fish recently? That's another great point. Yeah. Some of these deep sea creatures look like creepy monsters. Right? I mean, the anglerfish is one of the scariest looking things I've ever seen in my life. Creepy. And it's real, though. It's just science. It's not like, oh, what is this thing? They know what the angler fish is. Exactly. But they live so deep. I think until recently, it had never been filmed in its habitat until, like, this year, 2014. Until, like, three weeks ago. Yeah. Apparently it wasn't until 1975 that we ever photographed a whale underwater. Oh, really? Yeah. Interesting. 2006, I think in 1976, we discovered the megamounth shark. The seat just coughs up new life to us where we slightly more superstitious, we would have called monsters. So that's pretty much the explanation of sea monsters, but it goes back, like, really far, and looking at the different kind of monsters we came up with really kind of reveals a lot about our mentality. Yeah, it goes back. I mean, pretty much since people were writing stuff down, somebody was writing about some kind of sea monster. Like, the ocean is always just enthralled, folks, I think. Yeah. The Mesopotamians had the goddess Tiamat. It was a sea monster. Yeah. And she was their creator goddess originally. So if you go far enough back in Mesopotamian lore, that's where the world came from. That's where the universe came from, was Tiamat. Right. And then eventually, as Mesopotamia grew and evolved, she became what's known as the chaos monster, and she was slain by a male hero, and then the world was created from that. But originally, she was just a benevolent creator goddess. Well, and we'll see as we go through here, not all of the sea monsters. It depends on the culture and the religion. Some of them were benevolent. I know the Chinese revere their dragons and sea monsters. The Old Testament had its leviathan even in the Bible. Right. And this is a question of mine, dude. Don't you think that the Leviathan and Tiamat are one in the same? And in the Old Testament, it's the Hebrew god Slaying, the old Mesopotamian gods saying, don't even bring that here. Like, you created the world, I slay you. I am god. Well, I mean, there's a lot of crossover with stuff from the Old Testament and other religions, and some people take great offense to that others don't. What that it's not no, this is the word of God. Oh, sure. Period. There is no crossover. That's just coincidence. Right. 20,000 leads under the sea. I think Jules Verne this quote is pretty cool. In 1870, he wrote that great book, and he said, either we do know all the varieties of beings which people our planet, or we do not. If we do not know them all, if nature has still secrets in the deeps for us, nothing is more conformable to reason than to admit the existence of fishes or cetaceans and other kinds of even new species to which the character receiving that monologue said, duh. Yes. But it just kind of plays to the point that if there are undiscovered things, they're always high in the mountains or deep in the jungles or deep under the sea because people would have seen them. So it makes it exotic and sort of grabby as means of religion or literature lore. Right. Plus, Jules Verne was writing in well, this is 1870, when he wrote 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. So this is a time when a lot of the old myths and legends and monsters were being subsumed by biology. So, like, yeah, that monster that you saw, that thing does exist, but it's not actually a cracking, it's an orphish. Yeah. Or it's a giant squid. And here's what it does and how it reproduces, and because it's being studied, it's not just being feared. Yeah, it's a good point. The Greeks and Romans, if you're a fan of mythology, there are tons and tons of cool stories about sea creatures and sea monsters, all kinds of monsters, namely one acetus named by the Romans. King Cepheus had a wife named Cassiopia, and they ruled Ethiopia, apparently. And she said, you know what? My daughter Andromeda is more beautiful than all the c nymphs. And of course, she's like, yeah, I said it, yeah. And CDIs was like, all right, well, I've got a dog like head, and I'm part fish, and I'm going to come up and kill your daughter. Yeah. Beside me. Kill Cetus. Yeah. And Perseus, of course, is always saving the day. So he apparently was flying back carrying Medusa's head that he just chopped off, flying around and just happened to pass by. Is it Persephone who is about to be eaten? Andromeda andromeda and said, all right, I'll take care of citizens on my way home. My sword's bloody already. Yeah. Harry Hamlin. Yeah. I never saw the remake of that. Did you see that? No, I didn't either. I just remember release the Crack and was a buzzword. Yeah, that's right. Liam Neeson has a knack for buzzy movie lines of dialogue. Because that very particular set of skills was also a big thing for Betty. Seven months, four different movies. No, it was just in the one. Are you sure? Yeah. Take him. Yeah. It was a pretty good movie by the way. Sure did not see the sequel, though. Taking two electric boogaloo. Yeah, I thought it was weird when he started breaking. Yeah, he's doing the worm. Yeah, but not even very well. I would have thought they'd get, like, a body double who is, like, a professional dancer. Well, he did not have a particular set of skills when it came to being on the cardboard. 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Just go to Stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the homepage and enter code stuff. So, Chuck, you're talking about perseus slaying. See this? Yeah. Homer's Odyssey was also another great book of legends and mythology. Yeah. And there were some sea monsters in it. Yeah. Sila or skillibdas. These two point out an important and ongoing feature of some of these stories, which are that maybe they might symbolize something else real. Yes. Either a sea monster or in this case, maybe a dangerous reef or whirlpools. That's a pretty common thing. I know. The Kraken also the most dangerous part about the Kraken supposedly is the whirlpool that it creates. Right. So this is one thesis on why sea monsters developed. It was as an allegory. Yeah. A tail told of warning. Right. So that quote or that description of silla is described as having 12ft six heads atop long sinuous necks and mouths bristling with rows of sharklike teeth. That's probably a reef, right? Yeah, sure. And then shrub display on the opposite shore and periodically swallowed and regurgitated the waters. There probably a whirlpool, right? Yeah. So stories saying maybe don't go there. Exactly. Did you read that thing on nuclear semiotics? I did not. Dude, let me tell you about this for a second, okay? There is this whole exploration that's trying to figure out how to express. So, like, if you have nuclear waste and you need to put it away for 10,000 years, and to keep people away from it for 10,000 years, you have to figure out a way to warn people away from it for 10,000 years. Well, how could you possibly do that? Put it on Godzilla sign. That's one idea. Sure. There are a lot of other ideas, and this whole thing is called nuclear semiotics. And one of the ways to probably the most agreed upon way is to create this thing called the nuclear priesthood, which is this group of learned people who know the secret of this nuclear waste site but purposely come up with a folklore to warn people away. So to add some sort of, like, superstitious danger or something to the site that will get passed down and passed down. So eventually, the people surrounding the area live around it, will know, like, you don't want to go there. You'll get killed. It has nothing to do with nuclear radiation anymore, but this folklore will get passed along and along, and they're saying, like, that may be the best way to pass along information. And that's exactly what the idea one interpretation of what sea monsters are is. Yeah, it's like a ghost story, too. You don't want your kids to go in that decrepit house with all the rusty nails, tell them a scary old lady lives in there, or to play near the water. You don't want a carpet to take you away. It's really just manipulating your dumb kid. Pretty much not doing dangerous things. Right, exactly. Yeah. And it works. Over time, it's gotten passed down. So that's one interpretation of sea monsters. There's also, like you said, the Kraken possibly being the giant squid, or I shouldn't even say possibly. It's probably a giant squid, right? Yeah. There's always been stories of the Kraken terrorizing ships off of Iceland and Norway. And the Kraken is noted because it is huge, like 1.5 a mile to a mile and a half wide. And The Kraken is, like you said, most likely a giant squid. If you're a sailor back then and you don't know about biology and things yet, and you see an eyeball pop out the size of a human head right. It might make you think that's a big crack in seamounts. Exactly. So then if that gets embellished into something that's a mile and a half wide with legs as large as a sailing mass capable of pulling down a ship, well, I mean, it gets the point across to people back on land, like, wow, that was a really big monster that you guys saw. How big do these squids get? They get to like, 40ft long. There's something even bigger called the Colossal Squid that's so much bigger. It's its own species, I believe. And it lives just in the Antarctic. So it was probably not the basis of the cracking. It's probably just a regular old giant squid. But you've seen giant squids look at those things. Right? Exactly. They're scary looking. They are very scary, and they're very big. Plus, also, the idea of the cracking may have first come about before sightings of giant squid. Sure. It may have been taken from whalers who found, like, crazy scars on whales, who may have found, like, bits of tentacles, like huge tentacles in the whale's stomach, things like that. And they've been like, where did this come from? Yes, the beak, because they did find a giant squid once, but the sailors cut it up and used it for bait. But they preserved the beak, and that just fueled the legend even more and more. So that's another interpretation of sea monsters, is that they came from misunderstood or embellished sightings of actual sea organisms that we're familiar with now. Yeah. So it's the same thing. We just changed the name. Sure. Well, you're a sailor. You're drunk. Maybe you may be hallucinating because you've been out at sea for too long, licking toads, maybe looking toads. You may be physically ill, sleep deprived, fatigued. Right. And you see a giant squid. You might write in your journal that I've seen the Kraken. It makes perfect sense. Sure. And it spreads and takes shape over time. You got a little scurvy going on. The Kraken is not the only one that's probably based on something real like sea serpents. So the Leviathan was a sea serpent? Many headed sea serpent. It was a Mesopotamian god, like we said. No, I'm sorry. It was in the Old Testament. It may have been the Mesopotamian god. That's what I said. Yeah. But Leviathan always is sort of a catch all word now for any large, unknown, huge creature. Yeah. And apparently in Hebrew, it just means whale. Yeah. Which, again, is probably a whale. Well, yeah. It could have also been a sea serpent. So sea serpents are their own things. The Norse had a legend of the Yorman Gondor, there's a warm lot in there and everything. Yes. And that was apparently one of Thor's bigger headaches. Yeah. That was the baby that was created when Loki, his brother, and a woman named Angerboda, I guess, had the sex of the gods and created this creature, a sea serpent that wrapped around the globe, supposedly. Yeah. And that's just one example of a sea serpent, a huge sea bound snake. And there's a lot of suggestions of what accounted for sightings of sea serpents. Huge things of floating kelp seen in the distance. Sure. Schools and porpoises. Yeah. All in line together. There's one thing, though, that could have accounted for all sightings of sea serpents. It's called the orfish. Did you see this thing? Yeah. It is huge. And if an orphish was swimming in the water, it could be undulating up and down, and it looks like little spiny humps coming in and out of the water. Right. So that makes sense. Sure. They get up to, I think, 30 or 40ft. Yeah, they can. I mean, there's plenty of photos of ten dudes on a beach holding one up. Right, because it takes ten dudes. Yeah. It's not like they all want their hand on the little fish. Right, exactly, yeah. And these aren't photoshopped either. There are all kinds of stupid fake pictures, too, but our fishes are huge and they look like big, slimy kind of serpentine fish, and then chuck mer people were another kind of universal, I guess, sea monster myth. That's another thing that stuck out to me, is there are legends around the world from cultures that are separated by space and time that had similar stories without possibly interacting. So it makes you think that a lot of these people cited similar things sure. And came up with similar myths and legends to explain what they were seeing. Probably the mermaid is if you've seen Splash, you think, wow, what a neat thing to find a mermaid. But mermaids were not looked upon kindly because they would, and this article points out, at their best, they would just forget that you can't breathe and drag you underwater until you die. And at their worst, they would do so on purpose. Right. And take the men down under the water and lights out for you, Tom Hanks. Yeah, sorry, Tom Hanks. Sorry for the rest of your career. His career was pretty lousy after Splash, wouldn't it? Well, yeah. What? No, she Daryl Hannah, though, in the movie. She was not a bad mermaid because she kissed him and gave him breath. Right. Well, it's the Hollywoodification of the mermaid legend. Howard. Or like Ariel from Little Mermaid. Oh, sure. And that dirty, dirty DVD cover. Oh, yeah, I guess it was VHS cover. They probably corrected that before it went to DVD. Probably those Disney guys. Bored. Bored, yeah, sure. Yeah, I guess bored and blank. So the whole merck creature had root in the Nordic areas and Scotland, which apparently there are parts of Scotland that are so far north that they consider themselves Nordic rather than Scottish. Oh, really? Yeah, orkney I think and there's a whole part of Scotland that's underwater, now called dog land. That was around ten or 12,000 years ago, that's like this really fertile Neolithic artifact area. It's pretty cool. Doggerland, that's what it is. Not dog land. So they have their own things called Carpies. Chuck and what's interesting about the Carpie is that the kelpie the kelpie. I was thinking harpies. Yeah. Or kerpies. Exactly. But this is not carp or harpies. They're kelpies, which are actually horses that live in the sea that can sometimes change into humans. So they're kind of mercury. Sure. But every lake in Scotland has a kelpie supposedly associated with it, including Loch Ness. And it wasn't until the early 18th century that Nessi became like a sea creature that we think of her today, when some dinosaur bones, plesiosaur bones, were found around Loch Ness, saying, well, this is what the Loch Ness monster is. Right. Before that, it was just a kelpie. We could probably do a full show on nesty just for the fun of it. Totally should have been pretty much disproven. Unequivocally, of course, sure. Because there is no, like, this monster, but I just think things like that are needed. We did one bigfoot it's more about just the legend and the war around it. I'd love to do. Did you ever see the documentary that what's his name did? Verna Hertzog. No, I didn't know he did one of those. I think he did a documentary, but not like a Christopher Guessumentary, just a Poe documentary. Waiting for Nessie. Yeah, waiting for Nessie where it just looked like he was I can't remember the name. Where he was searching for the Latin monster and caught it on camera, but he made it seem real. I think it was Werner Herzog. It was good. Of course. Sounds a little dishonest for Vernon herdsag. Well, I don't think he was trying to pass it off. I think you got to see this. Yeah, I'll look that up. It may not be him, but someone did that. And it was kind of cool because if you buy into it, then you're like, oh, my God, there it is. Are you sure this wasn't like, something on cable? Noel says it was her talking. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I probably played on cable at some point. Got you. Noell talks a lot more than Jerry does. So, Chuck, that brings us to our third interpretation for where sea monster legends came from. People finding dinosaur bones. Yes. And we'll talk more about that right after this break. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office when you could be using Stamps.com? Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses. Because Stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and Ups shipping services you need right from your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps. Com's, easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS. Rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. All right. Dino, Josh. Yeah? Let's hear it. Oh, well, I said that Nessie became this kind of sea monster around the time of plesiosaur. I believe it's what it was. Skeleton was found around Loch Ness, they said. Well, this must be one of Nessie's relatives. Apparently that wasn't the first time that a dinosaur led to the idea of a sea serpent. You mentioned the Chinese having a legend of some sort of dragon, little tiny dragons that measured about 3ft long. No, I'm sorry, about a foot long. The Guizu dragons. Yeah. They were basically marine reptiles called Kichosaurus hui. But they were lucky. Like, if you found one of these skeletons, you kept it because it was a little sea monster skeleton that you got your hands on, and it would bring you good fortune. That's right. And I know earlier we were talking about just the early explorers, and you can't fault some of these dudes because this one article, you said they were literally in uncharted waters, and it was before the rise of science, and all they had heard were stories in folklore. And anytime you saw if you ever see a map, oceanic map from the 1005 hundreds, it's going to have some sea monsters drawn on it, even as just decoration. So it was a time when, before observational data came along, we pretty much sort of like the Internet today. You pretty much just rewrote earlier history books over and over right. Until they finally got a little smarter and say, you know what, maybe we should really observe something and then write about it for real. This didn't really lead to anything more substantiated. Well, for a while, sure. But they called it a transitional era in this article, which I think kind of sums it up. Yeah. These were early scientists, early naturalists who were trying to get a handle on what the heck they were looking at. But they still perpetuated legends. Like they might have a real creature, like a whale. Right. And then it's similarly a natural biological illustration of a mythical creature. Right. Like a sea bishop. Yeah. So the sea bishop was this thing that was supposedly caught and taken to the king of Poland because it was this fish like creature that had like a meter and robes, like a bishop, and apparently could also talk and refuse to eat, and it would make the sign of the cross and everything. And later on, somebody said probably didn't talk and make the sign of the cross. But if you look at the squid a certain way, sure, it looks a lot like it's got the hat and some of its flappy skin looks kind of like the robes. So maybe that's where the sea bishop came from. Yeah. Simultaneously to this, we're talking like the 16th century. There was pretty much a widespread belief that whatever you found on land had an analogy in the sea catfish, dogfish, sea horse, all that stuff. Yeah. And in some cases, they were right. There are catfish, there are dogfish, because we call them that sea monkeys. Right. The sea horse, too. Yeah. But all that kind of it was a rough time for science. It was still getting its footing. Oh, yeah. Because like you said, things were. Mistaken, like a whale and a walrus might be a monster when it's just a whale or a walrus. And there were all kinds of tales that, you know, when it's repeated over and over, you get the sense that it's just one of those, like, urban legends back then. Right. I guess it wasn't urban back then, though. What would it be? Seafaring legends. Yeah, exactly. Of whales being mistaken for islands, and, like, a ship will land on the whale and build and route down, basically get off the ship and build a fire. And then the whale, I guess, who's just chilling out at the surface, says, hey, there's a fire on my back, and I'm going to take your boat underwater and swallow you whole. Sorry, I'm a whale. So beware of whatever they called that whatever culture called that particular whale. Exactly. Now we just call it a whale, and again, probably land on their backs. It was an embellished story, but it was based on a sighting of a whale before they called it whales. And back when everybody lied about everything, they saw another culture that found dinosaur bones and created their own legends were the Lakota and Dakota Sue. Yeah, sure. They came up with something called yes, I think it's about right. Sure. From dinosaur bones found around the Missouri River. Yeah. And that was a water creature. Well, they were very evil water serpents that would eat anything, including one another. And so the Thunderbirds would come and do battle with them. Thunder beams. Yeah, but I looked it up. It's basically thunderbirds. Okay, got you. Yeah. What they knew is that it was in a Titanica. That's a buffalo, right? Yeah. They were pretty sure. That's apparently where the legends of the Cyclops came from. From Native Americans? No, from finding old elephant bones, elephant skulls, the huge cavity in the middle. Clearly there was a race of giants that just had one eye. No, they were elephants. We often joke like they were dumb back then. Of course they weren't. They were just trying to figure it out. It's like to make stuff up. Sure. They didn't have TV or anything back then. And like we said, a lot of the stuff was legend to keep boaters from going in maybe a particularly dangerous part of the sea or to keep the children away from the water. And like the ghost story and the nuclear what's it called? Oh, nuclear Semiotics. Nuclear Semiotics. Man, everybody go look that stuff up. Actually, Roman Mars has a 99% invisible about that one. Oh, cool. Yeah, nice. Nuclear Semiotics. Pretty neat and effective. I imagine we'll find out in 10,000 years. I guess. So what else do you got? Anything else? I don't have anything else on sea serpents. Just take a look at the Angler fish video and tell me if you came upon that and see. We also didn't point out that this was before. Not even deep sea exploration like this is before underwater exploration. Right. People are just riding around on the top of the ocean, so we're fascinated with it, and we've gone to the depths that we can attain at this point, which is pretty deep. I wish I would look that up. I don't know how deep we can go, how deep James Cameron can go. Oh, he goes deep, buddy. But think about back then, man, when they couldn't you know how scary that would be, right? When these strange creatures are like you see a giant squid. Yeah. And you're just partially seeing it. If you can't see it underwater, you have no idea. Before the diving bell even like or the butterfly. That's right. Yeah. You like that one? I finally saw that movie, by the way. Hardcore, man. That's good, though. Yeah, really good. If you want to know more about the diving bell and the butterfly or about sea monsters, you can type those words into the search bar. Howstep works.com? And since I said search bar is time for listing or mail. Let me call this OPA, which is German for a grandpa. I thought it was Greek for good times, maybe. Really? Yeah. OPA. Well, I'm sure those are just three letters together. It might be something in Greek, but, like, my brother in law Carsten is German, and his grandfather was I'm sorry, his grandfather was OPA, but his dad was native German, so my niece is called him OPA's. Ladies, I'm writing in specifically about your whaling podcast how appropriate. With a family story that Lucy relates. My greatgrandfather OPA left Germany when he was 14, prewar to work as a sailor, came to the US. And was a member of the US. Coast Guard. One day, he was part of a team that was clearing a harbor of some old sunken chips. To do so, they used the sophisticated method of throwing dynamite into the water to blast the wood apart and then gathered the debris. His team rode out in a 14 foot row boat to gather up the wood shards and notice the blast had killed the fish. They floated to the top, so the crew brought them in to the boat as well. Waste not, want not. Sure as they were going about their business, they came across a 16 foot hammerhead shark that had floated up. Clearly, it would be a great source of food. So despite their small boat, they pulled it aboard. I think you see where this is headed. No? I do. Well, as it turns out, the blast was strong enough to kill small fish, but only stun larger animals. The shark slowly started to regain consciousness in the rowboat and being confused and out of water, was not pleased. It got to the point that it was thrashing about in the boat, threatened to destroy the boat, and likely injure or kill the crew members. So in the midst of this chaos, they were able to flag down a sailor on a larger vessel, proceed to shoot the thing to death while it was still in the boat. All of the crew members were safe and they still got defeated on Hammerhead Shark, but now had a much more exciting story. And you mentioned in the whaling podcast, old timey whaling crew members were deployed in small boats to get the whale and were often injured and killed. I thought you might find this interesting and I was hoping you could give a shout out to my sister Rachel, who turned me on to your podcast in 2009. She lives in France and we don't get to see each other frequently, but whenever we do, Josh and Chuck always come up. That's us. So that is Wendy Bear. She is a registered dietitian. And Wendy and Rachel, thanks for listening and for spreading the word and for being sisters. Way to go, being sisters. Yeah. Thanks for writing in, Wendy. Yeah. Thanks, Wendy. And Chuck. This is our last episode of 2014. Oh, man, the longest year. So we want to say happy New Year, everybody. Yes. And I want to say happy birthday to my sweet and lovely wife Yumi. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday. That's the right spree version. No, it's the Stevie Wonder version. Oh, it's a good one. So it's not writing free. Yeah. So happy birthday. Yummy. Happy New Year to all of you great people out there in podcast land. We'll see you next year. Stuff you should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, my Heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, you know you're the best pet mom when you growl back during playtime, give epic belly rubs and feed feed them halo holistic made with responsibly sourced ingredients plus probiotics. For digestive health, find us at chewy amazonandhalopets.com." | |
c3cf2fbc-5460-11e8-b38c-77bcec3068ca | SYSK Selects: How Amnesia Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/sysk-selects-how-amnesia-works | Those movies where someone gets hit on the head and can't remember who they are anymore? They're actually not too far off from the reality of amnesia. Learn everything about this bizarre and life-robbing condition with Josh and Chuck in this classic episode. | Those movies where someone gets hit on the head and can't remember who they are anymore? They're actually not too far off from the reality of amnesia. Learn everything about this bizarre and life-robbing condition with Josh and Chuck in this classic episode. | Sat, 07 Dec 2019 10:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2019, tm_mon=12, tm_mday=7, tm_hour=10, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=341, tm_isdst=0) | 57091635 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, everybody. If you want a great website, you want to do it yourself. With no must, no fuss. Turn to Squarespace. They have everything to sell. Anything. They have the tools that you need to get your business off the ground, including ecommerce templates, inventory management, simple checkout process, process and secure payments. And if you're into analytics, hold on to your hats, because Squarespace has everything that you need. Just head to squarespace. Comsysk and you can get a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code SYSK to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. What if you were a global bank who wanted to supercharge your audit system? So you tap IBM to UNSILO your data and with the help of AI, start crunching a year's worth of transactions against thousands of compliance controls. Now you're making smarter decisions. Faster operating costs are lower, and everyone from your auditors to your bankers feel like a million bucks. Let's create smarter ways of putting your data to work. IBM let's create. Learn more@ibm.com. Hi, friends. It's me, Josh. And for this week's SYSK Select, I've chosen our episode on amnesia. I'm not going to make any sort of joke here. You can just insert your own instead, I will describe this as a great thick episode that is about an astoundingly interesting topic. And it's one of those topics where the movies actually get their depictions of this stuff, right? Because amnesia is just that bizarre. So sit in, buckle up and listen to this. Possibly again. Possibly for the first time. Who can remember these things? Sorry. Welcome to stuff. You should know a production of Iheartradios how stuff works. Hi and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W, Chuck Bryant and Jerry. And it's stuff you should know. The rodeo. Yeah. Ironically, I asked if we've done a podcast on memory and neither one of us could remember. No, I'm looking it up on our site and I don't see it anywhere. I got to feel like it doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't even I know it's tough now with 630 about 40 plus. Yeah, I mean, we'll delve into a subject, but it's not necessarily what the whole podcast is about. Yeah, every once we come up with one of those stupid non How X Works titles, so that just throws it off even further. Right? We may have named it like a Podcast to Remember. Boom boom. Mnemonic device, bitching. Yeah, we totally did one on memory. Wow. Good job. Thank you. That was real time. I just worked it out. Alright, well, we're definitely going to go over memory some, because you can't talk about amnesia without talking about memory, so we'll just reinforce that knowledge. I'm excited about this one. I thought it was pretty good. Sometimes it's like TV and movies, but not usually. It can be, but yeah, that's a very rare case. So rare that whoever has that kind of amnesia gets to be the intro for our podcast. Okay, who? A guy named Clive Waring. Yes. Man, this dude, I feel sorry for him. Did you see the cover of the book? He has this look on his face like, what are you doing? That's because he wakes up again every 20 seconds and goes, what just happened? Yeah, there's a poor man named Clive Waring. He's a musician and a musicologist, and he is the man with the world's poorest memory. Which means Oliver Sacks sleeps on his couch. Yeah. And he has a memory that refreshes itself every few seconds. He comes out and goes, who's that guy on my couch? Yeah. And he goes, I'm Oliver Sax. He goes, oh, hey, Oliver tattooed on your forearm. And then he goes, Oliver, what are you doing here? That's how it is. It refreshes like that. So this guy there was a New Yorker profile in him that conger who wrote this article sites saying that eating an apple is kind of like a magic trick to this guy. Like, 1 second, like, he's got the apple in his hand, and it's intact. And then he'll look down again, and it's just the core. A few seconds later, he has no memory whatsoever of eating the apple. He doesn't remember getting the apple right. He just knows there's an apple core in his hand now. So he must have eaten it. Yeah. And we'll go over this later. He has a journaling system because you kind of have to like in the movie Memento, and it had some excerpts, and it was literally like 905 woke up feeling refreshed. 908 completely awake now, feeling really good. I am fully awake at this point. And he scratches through previous entries just to keep track of where he is in the day. And then it takes like a really jarring turn once in a while to be like, 912. I no longer trust my wife. There's some weird guy on my couch. She's out to get me. She could really mess with this guy. Yeah. She could be like Joey Pants and memento. Yeah. I mean, how many times in an argument do I say, I don't know what you're talking about. That would be so great if that was actually affected. I mean, an argument would just stop. Yeah. After a few seconds, it would be like but that would be one of the horrible side effects sure. Of having amnesia like Clive wearing has imagine coming to and you're adrenaline still pumping, and you feel the sensation of anger. You have no idea why. Yeah. That is what happens to this guy. Yeah. So we should say that he's not just like a walking noodle, he does have some memories. He has the ability to still play the piano, which is amazing. Yeah. He's an accomplished piano player, but he can play the piano if you ask him to, and he'll play it well. But then when he finishes, you can say, oh, what was that piece? And he will say, what piece? And that's that. Yeah. He has both retrograde and interrogate amnesia, which is pretty rare to have both of those at once. And we'll get to what all that means, and we'll get to why as well, that he can go make a cup of coffee. We're going to get to it. Maybe we already have. That's a nice tease. Apparently, one of the symptoms that he first exhibited was he couldn't remember his daughter's name, though. Oh, really? One of his earliest symptoms was a headache, and then all of a sudden, he's like, what's your name, kid? Right. And then he thought, maybe something's not right here. Well, and this is one of the things about Anita that is different for everyone, and it's all dependent on what happened to you and the extent of whatever damage you may have suffered. Right. And even two people who have identical types of amnesia, it's going to be different for them. And here's why. Memory is different for everybody. Yeah, exactly. We all form memories following similar constructs, but for each individual person, what we remember, what makes us remember something, all of that is highly individualized, highly personalized. So much so that chuck, have you ever wondered if we all see the color green the same? No. You've never wondered? No, I've never wondered that, but now I am, and it's fascinating. You haven't ever wondered that? Really? Oh, yeah. If our visual cues are subjective. Well, I mean, I see green and you see green and it's similar, but haven't you ever wondered if the shade is slightly different or I've never wondered that. Just because of the information coming to our optic nerves, our eyes are slightly different. All of those little nuances like, what's green to me is not necessarily green to you, even though it really is, because we both say that's green. Yeah. But if you think about it, there'd be no way to really describe that, because if it's all subjective, what do you say? Green is like a combination of these two colors, but what are those two colors? Yeah. It's easier to just point and be like, that's green. And you go, no, it's not green. Yes. We should do one on color blindness. I have it on the list, but it's pretty tough. Believe it or not, I did. Don't be dumb on color blindness. Yes. Dogs being color blinding. Right. They're not. They're not. No, they see how to prove that they see a spectrum. I can't remember. You'll have to watch the don't be dumb on it. Okay. So let's talk about the memory process that humans typically follow, even though it is highly individualized. Yeah. There's a couple of types of memory we all know and love as short term and long term. Short term is good because you remember what you want and you get rid of what you don't. If you didn't, you would be like Mary Lou Henner from Taxi. Oh, did she have an amazing memory? She has a condition that only another dozen people have in the US called H Sam highly Superior Autobiographical Memory. Wow. And they just discovered it in 2006 period, not just in her. And it's only autobiographical, though. But for these people, you say June 1 one, 1976, and Merrily Luhana can go, oh, well, that was an off day for Taxi. We weren't shooting and I went shopping at Sax and bought the scarf and had a cop salad. And like I said, though, it's only autobiographical. They can't necessarily remember everything just about details of their life. Yeah, but it's just nuts. Like, she literally remembers everything that's ever happened to her. So that's cool that she remembers that Cobb salad, because it's probably pretty good. It's pretty tough to screw up a Cobb salad. Sacks trip. That's fun. Yeah. So that's good. But if she had a low latent inhibition, where all of the things like the click of a light bulb turning on, buzzing from somebody's electric razor next door, the sound of water rushing, the look of everything, the feel of everything, all of that information was coming in and flooding her memory and asking for her attention, she'd go crazy. Yeah. So one of the roles of short term memory, specifically the hippocampus, is to say, keep that, keep that, throw that away. Throw that away, throw that away. This one seems kind of important. This one has an emotion attached. We definitely need to keep that. That's what's going on with short term memory. Apparently, we keep about seven pieces of information up to 30 seconds, which sounds to me like a statement that is going to be utterly debunked as ridiculous in ten years when we understand memory more. For the time being. That's our concept of short term memory. It does seem sort of like a stab at something. It's overly concise. Agreed. So that's short term memory and short term memory is basically just holding immediate information in the front of your mind, figuratively and literally. And if it's sorted, it's sorted into long term memory. That's right. How we store memories, how we make memories. The first thing that happens is we have something called sensory memories. So you hear Josh past gas and you hear a sound and you might smell something. You would not hear that. That's true. You're an SPD guy. Or let's say you see a strawberry and you taste the strawberry and you see what it looks like. That is red and you taste it and you know it's tart. Right. Those are sensory memories. And our nerve cells detect that. They send that as an electrical impulse along to the end of a nerve. It turns on the little neurotransmitter, which sends a chemical message. That hops. We've talked about synapses those gaps between nerve cells. The neurotransmitter sends it across that little great divide to the neuron, which is your brain cell, and immediately your brain registers that as a short term memory. And whether or not it becomes a long term memory is whether or not you need to remember that and encode it. Right. And that encoding process is what moves it to the deep freeze. You know what I'm curious about? I wish I thought to look this up. How does science quantify the present? Is the present .8 nanoseconds? Is it the 30 seconds that your working memory is chewing on something? How quickly does a sensation or an experience become the past? Nanosecond? After it happens, I guess. But why a nanosecond? Why not a microsecond? Why not 5 seconds, whatever the smallest amount of time is? Yeah, technically, probably. I guess so. That's a pretty deep thought, though. That green. It's like I took acid earlier. Sweet. So encoding for long term memory is where we were, right. All of this stuff is coming to the hippocampus, and the hippocampus works in concert with some other parts of the brain. The amygdala, the thalamus. The amygdala is big on emotion. The thalamus is big on routing sensory stuff and pairing it with emotion. Emotions play a big role in memory. Yes. Because if you pair an experience with an emotion, it's going to have that much more of an impact on our neural pathways that are formed. Yeah, that's what encoding is like, the things you remember most. You're basically leaving a trail of breadcrumbs along this pathway if you want to retrieve a memory. And the stronger, like you said, if it's tied to emotion, it might be stronger, more reinforced, or if it's something you have to remember a lot, that breadcrumb trail is going to be with larger pieces of bread. Yes. The more times it's traversed, the more well worn the path grows, the stronger that memory is. And that's a mechanism called long term potentiation, where an initial sensory experience becomes a hard encoded memory in our long term memory, and you could crack open like one of our brains and say, see this neural circuit right here? That's my memory of my last birthday. Yeah. See that donut that's just there? It just started growing a few years ago. I'm waiting for it to fully mature before I harvest it. That was always one of the early Simpsons had that. I think it showed people's thought bubbles at one point, and Homers was just a donut. Yeah, it was pretty good. I can see that. So, like you said, this is all part of the limbic system. I don't think we said that. No, we didn't. Which is your reward system. You experience emotions through it. Yeah. Learning, memory, all that is tied to the limbic system. And our thoughts are being stored in the cerebral cortex. Is it our episodic? Well, short term, that's in the cerebral cortex, yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's right. Because if you take a specific type of memory, which we'll get to in a second. It usually gets stored in the region that's responsible for processing it as it happens in the first place. Right. So, like brokers area responsible for processing language. There's also your language related memories are stored there. Yeah. The time that guy shouted at you in Spanish, you didn't know what he was saying. Right. You can crack open the brokers area and there it is. Yeah. So the cortex is where you temporarily put it. It works with the hippocampus to send it to, like you said, whatever part of the brain. I didn't know that. That's interesting, though. It lives where it was originated. Makes total sense. Yeah. Again, I have a feeling that our understanding of memory is tenuous enough, that a lot of this stuff is going to change in ten years, five years, 15 years. Right. But for the time being, this is our understanding. Well, like, with anything with the brain, it's just like there's still so much mystery. Yeah. Shrouded in it the gray area. All right. So there's many types of long term memory. They are as follows, and these will come up throughout the show. Your explicit or episodic memory is what we do when we study for a podcast. Basically, it's like facts and information. Specific stuff. Right. We read it, we learn it, we know it. Yeah. Cramming for an exam, that's how you do it. You've got procedural or implicit. These are sensory and motor memories. That's how you know how to make a cup of coffee. It's like muscle memory. Yeah. It becomes less in memory and more something that you've done by repetition over and over. That's why Clive yeah. Make that cup of coffee. Or can play the piano still. Yeah. He doesn't remember how to play the piano. His fingers just do it from muscle memory. Right. He doesn't consciously remember. He does have procedural memories. Exactly. You've got semantic memory, which is organized and categorized memories. So it's kind of like a meta version of type of memory, right. Where if you're thinking about what your favorite bands are or something, you have a file of all the bands you ever listen to that maybe there's a subfolder in that file of the ones that you've ever heard that you like. Right. And all of those are based on your experiences of listening to Led Zeppelin or Boogie Down Productions or The Carpenters. I can go on. So when someone asks you what your favorite band is, you're scrolling through that folder. Right. And what you're doing is accessing your semantic memory. Right. Or you could just save pavement. You could be like, look at the T shirt. But then you just default and say, Pavement, and you're good to go. Pixie's for you, probably, huh? Yeah. I would say these days I would go more with Morris. Oh, yeah. Whoa. He's always been up there? Yeah. Nipping at the pixie's heels. But I would say Morris may have taken the lead recently. Yeah, I remember hearing The Smith for the first time in 9th grade. I was like, man, who are these guys? They still hold up. Oh, yeah. And if you listen, though, it's like, well, no, you mean The Smith. No, I love The Smith, but if you listen to Morris career, like, all it was, was the evolution of Morris. He started with The Smith, and he just kept going, and he just hit his stride even more after The Smiths. I liked Morris even more than the Smiths Man. All right. That felt good to get off my chest. You won't find me dissing, maz, under any circumstances. Why would you? He's the man. So you've got emotional, long term memory. Those are, well, emotional, like, super intense memories about something that may have happened to you and then spatial, which are just the spacing of an area. I remember that in the dark when I go to the bathroom that I have to walk around my nightstand. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. Running right into it, man, that will break your toe. Although that happens, and I kind of don't necessarily take issue with emotional memories being broken out as their own thing. But it seems like emotion is one of the drivers of memory formation. Even if it's just the slightest feeling, it seems like emotion is attached to all memories. It's a signal, like, remember this. Right. And it's an aspect of memory as well. Like when you recall a memory strawberry. If you have your first strawberry after somebody mashes it in your face and twist your nipples and walks away. Right? Yeah. You're probably going to associate that bad feeling with strawberries for a while. There's nothing worse than strawberry tufts. So all memories have some amount of emotion to it, which means all memories are emotional. But, Chuck, that doesn't mean that for the rest of your life, you're going to have kind of a sour taste in your mouth when you're eating a sweet strawberry because of that initial experience. Because memories are subject to change because of neuroplasticity. That's right. Although you may as well you might remember it, but I'll bet you don't have the emotional experience of it over and over again if you eat enough strawberries and experience them in different situations and settings. Right. I guess you're right. Like, if something has made me sick in the past, I have an aversion to it. Right. But I don't power through it. I just leave it there. I won't drink Milwaukee's best beer anymore. Really got sick of that, like, 25 years ago, and just the smell of it now, immediately, I'm just like, that's funny. If you wanted to, you could power through it, and after enough times, what you'd be doing is activating that neural circuit, that long term, potentiation and refreshing it a little bit, changing your idea of what Milwaukee's best is all about. That's a commercial. They should send us some beer and I'll get over it. There you go. But I won't get so drunk that I pass out and forget, because we'll get to that. That's a real thing. Yeah, it is. The kind of amnesia it is, literally. You can get amnesia tonight if you want. No, thanks. I'm going to see Stephen Malklin tonight, full circle. You want to remember that? I do. And then the third type of memory is where you combine short term memory with long term memory. Right. And you come up with working memory. One example I saw during research is when you're looking at a menu, you're going down a menu to decide what you want to eat. You're taking in that information from that menu, and you're creating a little bit of an episodic stimulus in your short term memory, and then you're accessing your long term memories, maybe from having pork chops before. Right. And you're comparing the two. That's your working memory. Okay. So that's a huge aspect of memory as well. And they think, as it stands right now, that it's basically a combination of short term memory and long term memory, mixing them together. And there you have your menu choice, and that's just your day to day kind of deciding things. Exactly. That's what your working memory is. Yeah. It's a really dumb way to say it, but you know what I mean? Your day to day. All right, so I guess we can talk about amnesia a little bit now, right? Yeah. Forgetfulness is good. It's not a bad thing to forget. You should remember the important things. But like we said, it frees up your brain of the stuff we don't need. And amnesia is nothing more than a really bad case of the forgets brought on by it can be brought on by a lot of things, but a lot of time. It's literally an injury to your brain. Yeah. Well, that's neurological amnesia. Yes. Which is the first time that we're talking about here. It can come on from a stroke. Yeah. It can come on from you're just not having enough oxygen for a little while. Drugs can bring it on. Drugs can bring it on. Alcohol. Yeah. What else? Like blunt force trauma, tumor, electroconvulsive therapy. That was another good episode we did. Yeah. In the case of Clyde Waring, he had herpes encephalitis, a viral infection that can do it. It destroyed his basically cut the cord of the hippocampus in the cortex will give him that analogy. That's a great analogy. The telephone cord. Yeah. And this is thanks to Kristen Conner, who wrote this. I don't know if we mentioned that if your memory is a telephone, the hippocampus is the phone cord. And the synapses that we talked about in the cortex, those are the voicemail messages. So in his case, he had damaged to his cortex, I believe, and the hippocampus. Right. Yeah. He has one of the more severe versions of amnesia. So because the phone cord was cut in the hippocampus, that's why it has no ability to form any long term memory, because there's just no pathway. And the voice messages are erased, essentially because of the damage to the cortex. There's no way they may be there still, but there's no way for him to access his voicemail account any longer. Right. So he has a really bad case of neurological amnesia and analogy. I had Mr. Telephone man in my head, that New edition song. Oh, yeah. The only way to was to go listen to it. It worked, too. So when you die, your baby's number, you get a click every time. Mr. Telephone man. It's a good song. It is a good song. New Edition was pretty good. Yes. And while we got over Belbipo, when I dropped a couple of references over the years that very few people noticed. Were you a Belbibo fan? Sure. Okay, a little bit. I mean, that wasn't really my music, but I'm a New Edition man myself. Got you. I was a big Bobby Brown guy. So with neurological amnesia, there is damage to the structure and it just shuts down the whole system right. And cuts that cord. And we talked about all of the different ways you can get that. Yeah. And it can be, like we said, depending on how severe the injuries are, it's not always completely cut, but it just may be damaged. So you may have either really bad amnesia, like Clive wearing, or maybe not so bad. Right. And neurological amnesia is very often permanent, but it's also very often stable unless it's associated with the degenerative brain disease. Right. It's usually like after whatever event happened to you, whatever you come to remembering, or maybe after you fully recover, after you hit that point where you're like, I don't remember anything else, or I can't form new memories after x number of minutes or seconds or whatever. Right. It's going to stay like that. You know you're a pet mom when you growl back during playtime and you insist on feeding them the highest quality food you can find. Enter Halo Holistic, made with only whole meat, no meat meals and probiotics for digestive health, our first ingredient is always responsibly sourced protein raised with no antibiotics. And bonus, our fruits and veggies contain no GMOs. It's a lifestyle and a pet bomb thing. Find Halo Holistic at chewy amazon these days, you use your personal info to do just about everything, especially when you're online. And guess what? With all that info just floating around out there, it can make the Internet a practical gold mine for identity thieves. And stealing your identity, it turns out, can be dangerously easy. Which is not good. But now it's easy to protect yourself with LifeLock by Norton. Yes, LifeLock monitors your info and alerts you to potential identity threats. And if you are a victim of identity theft. A dedicated USbased restoration specialist will work to fix it. Identity thefts have had it easy for far too long. Now, finally, it's your turn. Just remember, no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. But everyone can save up to 25% off their first year by going to lifelock.com stuff. That's life Lock.com slash stuff for 25% off your first year LifeLock. Identity theft protection starts here. So, Chuck, we're talking about neurological amnesia. That's one type, yeah. And the other type, and there's different ways to break them out, but the other main type is dissociative amnesia, which is brought on by intense amounts of stress. Yeah. It can be a trauma. The good news is it's usually temporary and it can come to light in a couple of different ways. Let's say you had some super traumatic event that can either damage your memory as a whole because of massive amounts of cortisol from stress, or it could just be the one event that you blocked out, like a really bad mugging that scared you or a car accident or something. You might not have any memory just of that. Right. That's actually how they divide or subdivide dissociative amnesia. Yeah. There's a global dissociative amnesia, which is autobiographical, which is like, who am I? What happened after witnessing your family being murdered, or something horrific like that. You don't remember anything about anything. The other type of situational dissociative amnesia, where you remember yourself, you remember who you are, your address, everything except that that murder that you witnessed. Yeah. Which can be a good thing. Yeah, it can be. Get rid of that memory. You could definitely interpret it as, like a safeguard by the brain. Either way, though, what's happened is, like you said, cortisol has been released, which has been shown to affect the hippocampus, and it also affects the brain's plasticity or its ability to form new memory. So basically, one way to put it, especially with situational dissociative amnesia, is the brain says, this is so stressful that I'm overwhelmed with cortisol and I can't form new memories right now, therefore this never happened. Yeah. You know, one thing that was interesting is hippopotamuses. I saw this on Animal Planet the other day. They are so stressed out, especially, sadly, little babies that are orphaned because of poaching for rhino horns. Did I say hippopotamus? Rhinoceros? Yeah, they feel for the rhinoceros. The rhinoceros. I was thinking hippocampus, I think. Yeah. They can die from too much cortisol, from being stressed. So sad. Like, a little baby rhino might die because their parents died just from cortisol, like massive amounts of cortisol. We have to update our can you die of a broken heart episode, then? I think we just did. Okay. We can check that off the list. That's right. Okay. Yes. Stress is a killer. We know this literally, and it can cause amnesia. I think a. Lot of people suspect that when it's not neurological, when there's not an organic cause like a brain injury for amnesia, that it's possibly somebody faking or something like that. No, they are so stressed out that the chemicals, the chemical composition in their brain has prevented new memories from forming. Not plastic anymore. No. The thing is that the associate of amnesia is very frequently temporary. There might be something that triggers a memory that leads to a cascade of memories that restores the person's memory fully. Yeah, you see that in movies, too. That's a big popular one for fiction. Yeah, it's crazy that there's like I mean, in movies it happens far more frequently than in real life, but it's not terribly far off. Not because the movies are really kind of keeping it close to reality, just that amnesias can be that crazy. Right? Yeah. You can kind of do anything, and someone's probably had that kind. Right. So you mentioned weaving. Clive Waring has both retrograde and anterograde, and that is a couple of other ways that doctors can categorize. It is by the type of memory. He has both. Retrograde means you can't remember the past, anterograde means you can't make the new memories. And since he has both, he's in big trouble. Intro grade is a little more like the movie Memento, right. When every 30 or 40 seconds you're born anew. But even still, if you haven't seen memento, just go ahead and fast forward to this part. Yeah, but he wrongly remembers his own past, which is a symptom of retrograde amnesia that you can fabulate. You basically come up with imaginary things your mind does to fill in the gaps, and you believe them to be real, but they're not real. It's imagined. Remember, that's how he turned out at the end. Like he wasn't the insurance adjuster. That wasn't a case. Like, that was his life. Right? Yeah. And also, especially in that movie, very easily to be taken advantage of. Right. The one seen with us when he was paying rent, when he kept paying rent, I was like, yeah, your rent's due. Right. And yeah, it was a jerk. But he has a system, and we'll talk about that coming up, too. So let's talk about anterograde. Anterograde is the inability to form new memories. Yes. And it's pretty simple. Basically, there's something wrong with the hippocampus. Right. Then it could be permanent, in which case you end up like Clive Waring and you can't form new memories. Or it could be temporary. It could be drunk. That is why anterograde amnesia is far more common than retrograde. It's one reason we can easily assault our hippocampus through booze. And as an example of how procedural memory still stays intact, you can walk and talk and move around and everything and then wake up the next morning and be like, how did I get here? And no matter how hard you try, you're not going to remember specific details if you fully blacked out, because when you're fully blacked out, your hippocampus was no longer taking all this information and forming memories like they just don't exist. Yeah. That's a terror grade amnesia. And it depends on who you are. Some people might have an alcohol blackout way easier than others, but if you're blacking out from alcohol, you're drinking too much. Sure, yeah. Even if you're someone with a super low tolerance and blacks out really easily. Yeah, blacking out is blacking out. It's a line for everyone. It doesn't mean you're passing out. You're still doing stuff right. And saying stuff. You're blacked out, you're blacked out. But it can be kind of tricky because if you think about it, you wake up the next morning and you're like, how did I get here? What happened? And by that time, last night was the past. Which makes you think, oh, that's retrograde amnesia. No, the amnesia is related to your ability to form memories or access old memories. So with anterograde, your ability to form new memories in the present, which was while you were drunk and blacked out. Right. That was anterograde amnesia. That's right. Retrograde amnesia is totally different because it is the destruction of those voicemail messages of your past. Yes. Which is super sad. Yeah. Because what's life if it's not a collection of memories and hope for the future? Look at you and this microsecond right now. With retrograde, if it's severe, basically your new memory or your most recent memories, which aren't as strong and reinforced yet, are the ones to go first. And then, depending on how severe your retrograde amnesia is, it'll go further and further back in your little memory file and start destroying them. Or if you're in the case of wearing if you have it super bad, you might not remember your past at all. Right. But he does remember his wife. He does remember his wife. And that theory, or that is called is that ribbot's law? R-I-B-O-T-I would say Rebow. Rebo. It looks pretty French. It does look French. That is that pattern of destroying those newer memories first and then going back and back depending on how severe it is. And there's a reasoning to it behind the whole thing. It's that your more recent memories haven't had years to potentiate and become these well worn paths so they are easier to wipe out then your longer term ones. But it's totally different, retrograde amnesia, because it can attack those parts of your brain where those memories are stored. So it might not have anything to do with any kind of damage to your hippocampus. It can say attack the part of your brain where again, the language memories are stored in your brokers area. Yeah. Like if you have a stroke, you might not remember how to speak. And that means that broke, his area has been damaged via lack of blood flow and oxygen that might be different. That might be like you lose your ability to speak. I wonder if it does have to do with memory, though, now that you mention it. I don't know. Like, when my grandfather had a stroke, he still talked, but they weren't words. Oh, yeah. But he thought he was talking. Like, in his head he was saying, now you turn left up here to go to the gas station, to his wife. But it came out as walking, barking duke and barking be super. But that was unsettling. It was sad and unsettling. How long did he live? Like, the frustration, too, because in his head he was saying the right words. But could he hear himself? Like, what was coming out of his I don't know, because he couldn't tell us. Or he could see on your faces that he wasn't saying what he was saying. I mean, I was pretty young, so this is all kind of distant, but how long did he live like that? I feel like a few years. Yeah. Could he write? I don't remember. That usually that's separate. So a buddy could write still. You should find out. I'm curious. Yeah. I should ask my mom. Was he a good guy? I used the best. Yeah, well, I'm sorry, Chuck. Yeah, that's right. It happens. It's in my bloodline, too, so I'm sure the same thing will happen to me. Is it really? Well, I'll pop you up in front of the microphone and we'll do a podcast like that and you'll just translate for me. Yeah, that's very nice. Be like, I think he's saying he likes pavement. You could just default to that. And I'd always be sort of happy and be like, oh, that's fine. I was really saying I was hungry, but you go walker. Yeah. It was weird, though. Like, his language was very consistent. It had the familiar. Like there was a lot of walking. Walking? Like that sound like he made up his own language. Yeah, sort of. Really? Interesting. That's interesting. And the thing is, that's how they figured out that different parts of the brain are responsible for different, I guess, different aspects of our personality or life. Like speaking is different than hearing and writing. Right. Just because you can't talk or form words doesn't mean you can't hear and understand words or write words. Right. Or think in your head the right words, even though they're not coming out right. Yeah. So with both of these kinds of amnesia, we should point out that your explicit or episodic memory is what you're losing. But your implicit or procedural memory is usually still intact as long as your cerebellum is good. That's why you might be able to make a cup of coffee or ride a bike. These things that are just ingrained in your brain. Right. And that's why Clive Waring can play the piano, but he can't remember who his favorite composer is. No. So wearing is a really good example of how somebody can live with amnesia. Number one, he has an amazing caretaker, his wife sure, who basically she takes care of him. Yeah, I bet she does little things, though, like, just where she wants to eat that night. Right. No, he ate there last night. I'm not going there again. Right. He's like, we did. Sure. Or she can really get him going where every time he looks down, he's like, oh, her she's kissed. Right. Just to delight him a little bit. Yeah, it'd be fun to do that. Yeah, exactly. But, yes, he has a good caretaker, which is important. Yes. Because there's no treatment for amnesia. There's no cure. Right. They can't inject you with something, all of a sudden your memories come back. So most treatments for amnesia deal with figuring out how to navigate life under the new change to the way you remember things. Yeah. It's all about systems. You have to have a system in place that you don't deviate from. In Clive's case, in the case of a mentor, he's tattoos and polaroids. Yeah. And notes for himself. Yes. Sticky notes. And that's what Wearing does, basically. Keeps a journal. And like I said, he crosses things out as he goes. So he knows where he is in the day. Right. He can look at his journal and says, no, I woke up three times already. I don't need to keep writing that. Yeah. The other aspect of forming routines is that they involve habits. And habits remember, your procedural memory is still intact, so you end up, like, just knowing. How does he know to get up and go to the journal if his memory refreshes every few minutes. Yeah, exactly. Every few seconds. It's because he's formed a habit of procedural memory, of there's a journal and you should go to it. So he knows what we would call instinctively through his procedural memory of using the journal over and over again. He's formed a habit that helps big time. Also, smartphones help big time, too, because he can access all sorts of stuff. Set, reminders. He's got a calendar right there basically what most of us do, except taking to the nth degree. I have a terrible memory. You know this. So I rely heavily on calendars and notes and reminders, and I don't even have amnesia, as far as I know. Can't you imagine, like, every time he pulls his iPhone out, he's like, wow, right? Look at this thing. It's reminding me. And it's a computer in my hand. Yes. The future is here's. Wife is so sick of hearing him say, the future is here. We've really poked fun at this guy a lot. Yeah. I hope he's not listening to this. He won't remember anyway. There he was. Psychotherapy. If you have disassociate of amnesia, can help out, I imagine that's a tough case to tackle. Sure. Because not only do you have to get to the root of this. You have to figure out everything else first and then sort through this lost. You have to regenerate the autobiographical information and then figure out which part of it is the real problem. So it's like this huge, massive layer on top of a normal case. Right. That's already a very pronounced one because the stressful event was so bad that it wiped out their ability to form memories. Yes. That's a good point. That's got to be I'm sure not every psychiatrist can handle that. No, I would say you'd go to a specialist or something like that and amnesia specialist. Do you think there are those? Sure. Well, I'd like to hear from you if you listen to the podcast. Okay. An early shout out. Yeah. If you have amnesia from drinking too much, corsicoff syndrome. You should quit drinking so much and maybe take some B one. What's it called? Thiamine deficiency. Yeah, that's all it is, vitamin B. Don't you remember? You said that? I can't remember which episode it was, but we were talking about hardcore alcoholics degenerate, basically physically, mentally. That's that. And part of it is a Thiamine deficiency, which leads to amnesia, which can be treated by laying off the sauce and taking B one. So sad. Have you ever known someone that was truly, like, pickled themselves? No. It's sad. Especially when you know it's from drinking. Sure. It's like a form of dementia. Really? Yeah, from booze. And I like to drink. I'm not, like, poopooing the whole thing, but, like, when you're blacking out and forgetting things and getting the DTS. Yeah. That's bad news. I know that's obvious. But we should point that out because we have kids that listen to this. That's true. All right, so Chuck habits. Oh, I read another one. I wrote a review of a woman who wrote a memoir, and she had amnesia. Huge, big time amnesia. Was it short? No, but the first line is something like, everything you're about to read. I don't remember. It was told to me. Oh, wow. She was playing with her kid, and the kid, she was spinning him around, and I guess he knocked the ceiling fan loose, and it was, like, poorly installed, and it came down on her head and it was like Gilligan's Island level amnesia. Like, she gets bonked and forgets things, everything. Wow. Yes. She has world class amnesia, almost on a Clive wearing level. And she wrote this memoir, and in it she's basically saying, like, how she navigates through life with amnesia, and a lot of it is just faking it. Really? Yeah. She didn't lose her ability to pick up on social cues, so she can pick up on what's expected of her, and she can kind of guess a lot of fabulous. Probably, yes. She says she has no idea why people celebrate birthdays or holidays or anything, but she still does it because she realizes she's expected to. No, it's not with her, surely there probably is confabulation. She doesn't believe what she's imagining. She's faking it. Okay? And apparently she's so good at it that people forget she has amnesia. Right? But she's saying, like, no, I really genuinely don't remember. I'm just good at making it seem like I do so I can fit in. That must be so weird and frustrating. It sounds pretty weird, like, if to have to sing Happy birthday at a birthday party, and she's like, they're singing the song. I know I'm supposed to do it, but I don't know why a lot of these people do this. Yeah. Wow. All right, well, let's take another break and then we'll come back with some more amnesia. You know you're a pet mom when your camera roll is all pics of your pet. At Halo, we get it because we are pet moms, too. And just like you, we know their nutrition is one of the most important decisions you'll make. Halo is natural, high quality pet food that's rooted in science and thoughtfully sourced. It's the world's best food for the world's best kids. Find Halo at specialty pet stores and online these days, you use your personal info to do just about everything, especially when you're online. And guess what? With all that info just floating around out there, it can make the Internet a practical gold mine for identity thieves. And stealing your identity, it turns out, can be dangerously easy, which is not good. But now it's easy to protect yourself with LifeLock by Norton. Yes, LifeLock monitors your info and alerts you to potential identity threats. And if you are a victim of identity theft, a dedicated USbased restoration specialist will work to fix it. Identity thefts have had it easy for far too long. Now, finally, it's your turn. Just remember, no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. But everyone can save up to 25% off their first year by going to LifeLock. comStuff. That's L-I-F-E-L-O-C-K. comStuff. For 25% off your first year, LifeLock identity theft protection starts here. All right, so, Chuck, you want to talk about amnesia detection, which seems like, oh, that person can't remember anything. They have amnesia. Or they just got hit on the head with a coconut. Right? Well, for wearing he had a headache. That was the first thing that happened. The next thing that happened a couple of days later, like you said earlier, he couldn't remember his daughter's name. So warning signs flashing at that point, and it really spiraled out of control from there. In his case. Sometimes it's super obvious. Like you said, if you injure your head and you can't remember things, then you've got some form of amnesia. Can you recall your past events? Do you confabulate? Do you confabulate? And the difference between a confabulation and a lie, by the way, is there's intent with a lie? Right? This person is honest intent. It doesn't realize they're filling in the gaps with imagined stuff, or if they do, they don't want to think about it. There's no malice involved. They're just trying to be normal. Right. You know, you might have trimmers or be uncoordinated. You might be confused and disoriented. It could be in a fugue state, which is where you're wandering around. Yeah. That's with the disassociated identity that can be present, for sure. You remember when John McCain entered that fugue state in the 2008 debate against Obama? Did you see that? Yeah, man, I couldn't believe it. Even Obama was like, what is this guy doing? Yeah, he made that face, and I think he pointed his thumb off to the side. He went to a different place briefly. One thing you want to do is get a Cat scan or an MRI or both and see a doctor immediately and find out what the heck is going on. Yeah. If you can't remember things that you usually can, don't mess around. It could be a sign of early Alzheimer's. It could be a sign of mild cognitive impairment. They're both kinds of dementia. I don't want to mess around with that. You can get amnesia from those, or it can be a symptom of dementia. But dementia and amnesia are not one in the same chuck, why don't you see people wearing, like, Prevent Amnesia T shirts on, like, a five k run walk to fight amnesia? I don't know. Because there's no way to prevent it. Aside from maybe wearing a helmet when you're riding a bike. Sure. Avoiding trees with loose coconuts, doing what you can to prevent a stroke or cut down on your risk of stroke, and steering clear of highly stressful events. Apparently, there's really not a lot you can do with amnesia. It's bad luck is something pretty much something that happens to you that causes it. That's right. But again, there are possible they're working on some treatments. There's no pill now, but they're working on treatments in the cutting edge field that's starting to yield possibly results that could be used to treat amnesia. Are studying fear extinction? The opposite. They're trying to induce amnesia and PTSD patients, which I think we talked about this in our PTSD episode. I think so. If you've ever seen the movie Eternal Sunshine, the Spotless Mind, that was one of the greatest was that on your top 100? No. And I actually had people say, how was that not on there? That was a good movie. It was a good movie. We'll call it 101. Okay. And in that movie, people would pay money to have certain in the case of the movie, certain people remove their mind. Right. Like a former girlfriend that was so painful you just want no trace over in your memory. But they are researching that. At Led Laboratory at NYU in New York, they did an experiment with rats where they would associate the sound with them being shocked. And they found that in adult rats, when they heard that sound, of course they would freeze up like they were going to get shocked. But in baby rats, they didn't. And what they learned was, after about three weeks of age, a sort of a molecular sheath would form around the cells in the amygdala. So they found a drug that would dissolve that sheath and basically leave it prone to manipulation, replacement. Yeah. And then they basically found that if that sheath is gone and dissolved, that they could erase fear memories. And the adult rats were not affected any longer by that sound, the buzzing sound. Yeah. And they don't know about humans yet, but that's obviously why they're studying it. They don't want to learn about rats in their memory. We know a pretty decent amount of human and memory formation thanks to a specific patient named well, for many years, until just a couple of years ago, he was known only as HM. Yeah. And he was a man who, now that he's died, his identity has been revealed as Henry Molasson. He was a lot like Clive Waring. His memory didn't refresh quite as frequently. But he was the initial memory patient. Yeah, he had a bike wreck when he was a kid and was epileptic from then on. And those seizures to relieve those seizures, they removed part of his amygdala I'm sorry, all of his amygdala and most of his hippocampus, and it stopped seizures, which is great. But then they found out, hey, we've got a really good memory patient on our hands now. Right. Because he just couldn't remember. No. And he was also a very good, easygoing guy. Yeah. They studied him for life. Yes. From like, 1953 on, I think, or 1955 on. Yes. And by on, we mean to 2008. He just died semi recently, and they're still slicing his brain apart and sending it out to people to study. And also his brain, I should say, proved that memory is not one long circuit. The process isn't one long circuit where, like, with a string of Christmas light bulbs, if one bulb burns out, the whole thing does. Because he could remember stuff from his past up to the time when he got the surgery, he just couldn't form new memories. So they figured out that long term memory storage and retrieval was distinct from new memory formation, which, as we've seen you and I explained fully. Yeah, they should do. I wish more people like Henry Adelax and HM were honored. These people should have statues in front of hospitals. These people who suffered for the greater good, as far as research and scientific study goes, are like those twins that were separated by the New York Family Services for twin study. Oh, yeah, those kids need some statues and some girl in the box. The girl in the box. No, the most awful case ever. Oh, BF. Skinners kid was that the one that they basically tortured as a child very recently, like she was recently discovered. I think it was a boy. I heard about a girl who was kept in a closet for her whole life in Texas. I remember that too. Yeah. But not to study as abuse, right? Yes, total abuse. Now, there was some I know we've talked about it before. Some boy who was purposefully sort of abused for the purposes of research. Oh, are you talking about and like, they didn't have his real name and know who it was? Little Albert. Little Albert, where they studied fear extinction in him by making him scared of things. Yes. He definitely deserves a statue. So you remember that and I didn't. So you said something that they couldn't remember his name, I think is what triggered it. Yeah. And that's part of encoding. I encoded it. That's right. But the idea little Albert, they didn't remember his original name. Your trail of breadcrumbs is more solid. So let's talk pop culture real quick, man. Good movies. Memento. You mentioned Eternal Sunshine as follows Mine. What else? One of my favorites is Mall Holland Drive. I don't remember amnesia being a part of that, but yeah, the one girl couldn't remember anything. The main character. Yeah. The Burnett. Yeah. Vanilla sky. Yeah. I did not care for the whole thing with it. I know. Everybody didn't like it. No, I didn't like it. That was original. Open My Eyes, I think was the original Spanish language film that was based on was really good. Got you. What else? Oh, well, Jason Born. Yeah. He had amnesia. Yeah. 51st one about amnesia. It's a cute movie. I didn't see it. You should see it. Okay. And if you reverse your perspective a little bit, groundhog Day, where Bill Murray has a tremendously excellent memory and everyone else has amnesia every day. And I think this is a great time to acknowledge the great Harold Raymond of Groundhog Day and Stripes and Animal House and Caddyshack. And Ghostbusters. And Ghostbusters, yeah. What a loss. He defined comedy for our generation. He died at 69, which is so young. So young. And check. There's no way we could do an amnesia episode without mentioning Benjamin Kyle. You remember him? He was found in 2004 in a Dumpster, naked and unconscious in Richmond Hill, Georgia. What? And we've talked about him before and like one of those 1 minute BS thing. Oh, yeah. And he cannot remember anything. He has complete autobiographical episodic amnesia, retrograde amnesia, and nothing is helping. They've put them on NPR, they put them on CNN, they put them on ABC, they've put them on news. They've done stories on him around the world. He has a website called Finding Benjamin Benjaman.com, and they want to figure out who this guy is. He wants to know who he is. They have not figured it out. The case is still cold. So he's not faking it. No. If he's faking it, he has totally giving himself over to the idea that he will never be found out because he has put himself out there. He lives in a bureaucratic limbo because he doesn't have a Social Security number. Yeah, he can't get a new one because he's, like, 60 years old. And the Feds are like, what do you need a new use your old one. We gave you one before. And he has no idea. There's a documentary that's coming out about them or that might be out now. Interesting, but yeah, it's totally legitimate. Case of full retrograde amnesia. Waking up in a dumpster, naked in Georgia. That is nuts. And the reason he's called Benjamin Kyle is because he's pretty sure his first name was Benjamin. But when he was taken to the hospital, there was already a John Doe there. So they called him BK because he was found behind a Burger King. So he took the name Benjamin Kyle. His name could have been Mickey D. It could be anything. Wow. Well, faking it is the thing. I think hess. Rudolf Hess, the Nazi. I didn't look this up, but I think I remember somewhere that he faked amnesia to get out of his war crimes for a period. I believe it. That guy was at sob all around. Yeah, he's a Nazi. I know. I think he did fake amnesia, and I think he even fooled his doctors for a time, but then later admitted that he had faked it. I might be wrong, Degenerate. I didn't do specific research on that, so we'll see. He was a black shirt, though. No, wait, he was a brown shirt. I got it wrong again. Brown Shirts were the German. Black shirts were Italian. Okay. All right. Well, that's amnesia. You got anything else? No, sir. Man if you want to read more about it, you should type amnesia into the search bar@housetofworks.com, and it will bring up this article. Since I said search parts. Time for listener mail. This is from a termite expert. He was a pest control operator for seven and a half years and on the board of the New York State Pest Management Association. Wow, that's high up. Hey, guys. When you talked about a termiticide treatment, you stated it is injected into the colony. This isn't quite right. Could be misleading to the average homeowner. It makes them think that the colony will be killed off. What really happens is that termiticide is injected to form a barrier on a few inches of treated soil around the foundation of the house. When termites come into contact with it, they shortly die. Eventually, the colony realizes something is wrong and send out alarm pheromones for the others to avoid it. As to the bait, you'd stated it might leach into the soil. This makes for good radio or podcasting, but again, it's an alarm to the homeowner. That's not necessarily true. Bait is solid and small. And it will not leach, but it will explode. When I was in the business, there were two types of bait. The first was a poison like bait for mice you put in your home. We didn't use that, but that's about it and simple to understand. The idea is hopefully they will realize something is wrong and not come back. The second type of bait, which we used, interfered with the molting process. You could actually see them turn a milky white as young termites could not grow. The colony died, as a nation would die if no new children were born. Like the movie Children of Men. It's a good movie. This program was the only one at the time that would eliminate a colony. I hate to nitpick. You guys run a good show and I just want to see it done right. And that is from Sean Duffy of Pittsburgh, a termite expert who likes to pick knit. Hey, big Sean, right? Yeah, we appreciate that. Actually. I'm just teasing. If you want to tell us something we missed, stated slightly or otherwise, you can let us know. Join us on Twitter at syscape. Podcast is our handle. Join us on facebook. Comwichetnow. Check out our YouTube channel. Just search Josh and Chuck. And as always, join us at our home on the web. The luxuriousestatestuffynow.com stuff you should know is the production of Iheartradios How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Ah, summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good it's Criminal Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, Morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Ercart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this chart topping series will have you hooked before you know it. Listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. You know you're a pet mom when you plan, you're vacation around your pet. At Halo, we get it because we're pet moms, too. We make natural, high quality pet food that's rooted in science. It's the world's best food for the world's best kids. Learn more@halopets.com." | |
440bf494-53a3-11e8-bdec-ffc5b5ffe404 | Wetlands! Wetlands! Wetlands! | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/wetlands-wetlands-wetlands | It’s time to get jazzed up for some Earth science of the waterlogged variety. Join Chuck and Josh as they tour some of the most interesting ecosystems on the planet and learn why we need to stop destroying them post haste. | It’s time to get jazzed up for some Earth science of the waterlogged variety. Join Chuck and Josh as they tour some of the most interesting ecosystems on the planet and learn why we need to stop destroying them post haste. | Thu, 10 Sep 2020 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2020, tm_mon=9, tm_mday=10, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=254, tm_isdst=0) | 43699385 | audio/mpeg | "We have a book coming out, and we would love it if you bought it. That's right. That'd be great. It's called stuff you should Know. Colon. And that's it. Just colon. OK, well, I think there's a little bit more to it, and I'll be the one to say it then. It's called an incomplete compendium of mostly interesting things. And the title is just a flat out lie because it's all interesting, Chuck. It is. And it's a really fun book. We're really proud of it. It's got great illustrations from our new friend Carly Minnardo. It was co written with us with a great guy named Nil Sparker. And the team all came together to produce something that we're just super proud of. That's right. So you can order it everywhere. You buy books preorder now, and we appreciate you. Welcome to stuff. You should know a production of Iheartradios how stuff works. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Charles and Jerry's over there. And this is Stuff you shouldn't no. The dripping wet addition in these wetlands. What? I knew that you would not get that. Is that a seger preference? Oh, gosh. Why do you have to say cigar when you always mean Springsteen? Was that Springsteen? Yeah. Badlands. Okay, baby, these wetlands are born to run. Sure, run water. I don't like myself anymore. Running water. That was a great save, Chuck. Thanks. So we're talking wetlands. I have to say, we have to give a shout out to Tom Peterman, a foul mouthed wetland biologist who keeps asking us to do this episode. Is that where this came from? It was Tom. Peterman's suggestion. Although I'd already wanted to do it anyway. Yeah, we love our sciences, man. This one was I was just smiling from ear to ear researching this. Can you imagine watching a blacksmith forge something in a wetland in a flooded woodland? No, that's nirvana right there. It really is. So we're talking wetlands, everybody. And Dave Ruth helped us put this one together. And Dave likes to pop in jokes every once in a while. And he said he does. He said, what makes a wetland wet? Water. And then he says, in all seriousness, that's basically that the water has to be largely present at least some parts of the year in the soil, in such amounts that you would call something wetland. I mean, think of the name wetland. It's about as earthy a term as science gets. Yeah. And he front loaded this with a few stats, and I won't go through all of them, but I'll go through a few that kind of are instructive as to why I love wetlands so much. Here's one. Although wetlands make up only 5% of the land surface in the United States, they are home to 31% of our plant species. Yeah, not bad. One third of America's threatened or endangered species species live only in wetlands. I would propose that that's slightly misleading. I think they're endangered because they live in wetlands, and wetlands are endangered as we'll see. Think about it, Chuck. I don't know. I took it more as like they're all hiding out in the wetlands because it's a terrible place to hide out. No, it's not bad because it's got 31% of the plant species. I mean, it's a pretty rich biodiverse area to live in if you're an endangered species, for sure. All right, you say tomato, I say tomato. We'll have to hear from Thomas Peterman, the foul mouth wildlife for wetland biologists who can let us know. What does he say? Like, do f in wetlands already? Yes, that kind of thing. Yeah, I like this guy. I think that's an exact quote. Yeah, he's my kind of dude. So another stat that I thought was pretty interesting that just kind of needs to form the basis or the undercurrent of this whole episode is that we keep talking about the US. There's wetlands found all over the world of different types of varieties in different climates and different continents, every continent except Antarctica. But in the United States in particular, we have a long history of filling in and draining wetlands for other purposes. I don't know how much we've lost, but in the 1600, the lower 48 states were covered with 220,000,000 acres of wetlands, which is 11% of the total surface area of the lower 48 states. And I think starting in the 50s, we were doing away with wetlands at a rate of about 60,000 of those acres per year. Yeah. And it's gotten better since then, but yeah. Boy, up until the Clean Water Act, it was just like, hey, you know what looks great? There a resort with, like, three golf courses and a bunch of tennis that's been such a driving force. It's like looking at land or ecosystems being like our humans making money off of it. No. Well, then drain it and repurpose it. Set it on fire and repurpose it. Stop it from burning and repurpose it. If we can't make money off of it, it can't possibly be useful. And luckily, since the environmental movement really started in the 70s, we've realized that it's not necessarily true that even if you are just a heartless dummy, there's still a lot of benefits that humanity is given from things like wetlands that seem problematic or non productive. Yeah, that was one of dangerfield's. Big lines in caddyshack El cervic was golf courses and cemeteries. They're two biggest waste of prime real estate. That's a good one. So let's talk about wetlands. You said that some of them are only wet for short periods, sometimes when they're snow, melt or just rain. Yeah, those are called ephemeral wetlands, which is a cool term. It's a great term. Some are wet all the time. And the key parts of being a wetlander, the key characteristic is that it's either permanently or periodically flooded or wet. And that the soil. It's called hydra soil and is dominated by anaerobic processes, meaning it loves water. And the plants there love water, which is weird because you used another word that shouldn't really jive with plants, and that's called anaerobic, which means there's very little to no oxygen present, and we'll explain why later. But the fact that there are plants means that those plants have adapted to the wetlands. Yes. Anaerobic condition, hydrophytic, and we'll talk about those plants later. It's another thing I love about wetlands, is just that it really underscores the remarkable evolution that something will go through to survive. Very cool, very awesome. But you hit upon something like they're not necessarily wet year round, right? So there's a whole bunch of different types of wetland environments that fill those, that check those boxes. One of the ones that most people think of when they think of wetlands or coastal wetlands like marshes and a marsh is basically like this area between inland and the ocean. It's like a transition zone, a buffer zone, and because of its proximity to the ocean, it's usually salty, or at least brackets, which is a mixture of salt water and fresh water. And one of the ones that really come to mind, if you're thinking coastal wetlands, you're thinking marshlands, and you're thinking tidal marshlands, probably, especially if you're a Pat Conroy fan. What was the name of her character that he repeats over and over in a whisper? I think I remember Chuck. It was Bobby Jim. Bobby Jim. This is one of those scream at the pod player moments. Was it in The Prince of Tides? Yeah. Loenstein. Was that it? Loewenstein. You're sure it wasn't Bobby Jim? I think it was Loinstein. Was it his shrink girlfriend's name? Yeah, babs. Okay. Yeah. I don't remember. I think it was Lonstein. All right. So anyway, tidal marshes. Yes, Prince of Tides. Obviously it's because your title, they're going to come in and out with the high and low tide. And like you said, they are generally saltwater, and the salt marshes are very nutrient rich, and they do have a lot of diversity, but obviously only the kind of things that can tolerate the salt as far as plants and animals go, which is a pretty short list, really, because salt is not conducive to life. Instead, there are some plants that have figured out how to deal with salt, but most of the time when you're looking at salt marshes, the plant life is basically grasses of some sort. Right. There's also freshwater tidal marshes, which they are either connected to the saltwater marsh, but they're far enough inland that the saltwater doesn't make its way in there. So it's a freshwater marsh, but it's still affected by the tides. And then I had no idea about this, and I used to vacation on Lake Erie, but apparently the Great Lakes are so big that they have tides themselves. You didn't know that? I had no idea I even knew that I'm a dumb dumb when it comes to the Great Lakes. Well, Chuck, I think you got me beat big time. Well, in this case, because I could know a million other things about the Great Lakes. And if you knew that one thing and I didn't, you had me beat. Yeah, I knew that. That means that they do have those title marches. The Florida Everglades are another good example. And, boy, Florida. There's a lot of different types of wetlands in Florida. Well, there's a lot of coastline. Yeah, a lot of coastline and a lot of interior wetness. Yeah, we have a lot of wetlands around our place in Florida, for sure. And there's mangroves and all sorts of stuff that we'll talk about. Well, we're at mangroves. I love those things. So mangroves beautiful. I think they at least deserve a short stuff because they're one of the most amazing plants of all time. But they're a type of coastal wetland themselves, a mangrove forest, where if you've never seen a mangrove forest, they have a growth habit for the shrubbery on top of the hair that Oompa Loompa has in the original Willy Wonka, the good one. And the trunks split out into these cool, like, long roots and legs that stick up out of the water, and they form this huge tangle, this riot of woody shrub. And they do all sorts of amazing things to help the aquatic life and us humans as well, up on land, just by being present. Yeah, they're really cool looking. And this is another good one, sort of like the origami that if you're able and you're sitting still, to look up a lot of these things as you go, because these mangrove forests, it looks like a shrub that's like, I really want to be a shrub, but I don't want to get wet, so I'm just going to dip my legs in a little bit. Yeah, that's really great. It's just very cool looking. And again, just the adaptability that these mangroves really want to live where they live, even though it's not very suited for them and they become suited for it. Right. If you've been sleeping on mangroves, welcome to reality. That's a T shirt if I ever heard one. Yeah, I could use a little work. But there's the beginnings of one in there. You also got your inland wetlands. These are not coastal. In this case, we're talking about swamps and marshes and bogs and fens, F-E-N and marshes. A lot of these you'll find near rivers, near streams, lowland depressions, and they might periodically fill up, depending on rain, what's going on, or different types of flooding that might happen. And they can be a few inches deep. They can be several feet deep. Yeah. Most of the nontitle inland marshes are ephemeral wetlands, so they're dry a lot of the year. They might fill up seasonally. They might fill up with the rains, they might fill up with the nearby river flooding. It's like my backyard. Really? Is that right? Yes. It doesn't drain well. I've got a drainage problem. Okay. To you, it's a problem. To nature, it's wonderful because we like things that drain really quickly and dry, and then we can walk on them, and the grass is fine. But there's a lot of benefits to things that take their time. Like, there's something called the Vernon Pool, which is a kind of nontitle marsh, an ephemeral wetland, and it's basically just like, say, a stretch of woods that's a little bit depressed there so that when it rains or river floods, it fills with water. And because the underlying bedrock or clay is not very porous, it takes a while for that water to go through. But that water is also not going further downstream. So it prevents flooding from being as bad as it could, because a lot of the water collects and stays there, and it also slowly recharges the groundwater. And because it does get dry, it can't sustain fish, which makes it a really great nursery for things like newts and salamanders and frogs, things that fish eat their eggs. But since there's no fish, this is like a really great place for them to get a good foothold and a brand new life. You've also got your prairie potholes. This is when you should definitely look up. These are usually in the upper Midwest of the United States. The Dakotas, minnesota may be Wisconsin. And these are where glaciers, ancient glaciers, left these big depressions in the landscape. And they fill up sometimes during rain, during the spring, during snow melt. And they're not small like I heard prairie pothole, and I got a vision in my head, but if you look it up online, they're beautiful. And they're very large, though, and they're kind of interconnected, just these big round holes scattered through, like, a big open area full of water. And these are great for migrating birds, because that could be a stopover that they might not have had those potholes not been there. And when they're flying over the Dakota, they say, look, I see Van Nostrin's house or Buddy van Nostrin. And then there's also we said that wetlands occur in all different kinds of climates. They also occur in the desert. There's something called PLYA lakes, which are these depressions that apparently no one has any idea exactly how they formed. It could have been from erosion. It could have been from an ancient sinkhole. But there are depressions that are deep enough that when the seasonal rains come, the water is held in there. And just like the prairie potholes, it's very useful for migratory birds to stop over and really plays a huge role in this ecosystem where there's almost no water, and now all of a sudden, there's water, and it's in this nice little lake. So let's all go gather there and have a social hour, but responsibly 6ft apart. That's right. Okay, I think we should take a break and we will talk a little bit about inland swamps right after this. All right. So inland swamps. We promised to talk about that. These are, for my money, some of the coolest areas in the country, because I think I talked about it at some point. But I took a very special fun trip many, many years ago to the Okie Pinocchi swamp and did one of those canoe trips where you have to rent there's no place to stop in the Okie Pinocchio swamp, if you're like. I think I'll camp here. It's like, in the water. So they have these camping pads built up, essentially just decks that are like, 6ft above the water. And you have to reserve those. They're not just wide open for anyone because there's nothing else out there. So you have to reserve them for specific nights on these specific pathways or paddle ways. And me and a couple of buddies did it one year, and we canoed from deck to deck. Very cool. It was amazing. Like, one of the coolest trips I've ever taken. That is very cool. Was Ned Baiti with you? No. But you do wake up surrounded by alligators. It's a little creepy. Yes, alligators are very creepy. Like, you wake up on that pad and pee off the dock and they're growling at you. Yeah. And you do not want to get too close because they can move faster than you think. Yeah. Can. It was a lot of fun, though. But not for the faint of heart, because you don't realize until you get out there, a, how bad the sun is going to beat you up because there's no shade, and B, how tough it is to paddle all day long without, like, let me get out and stretch my legs. Right. There is no getting out. You just go and go and go. And by the time you finally reach that janky deck, it is like might as well be the Plaza Hotel. Oh, nice. But what I'm talking about, in the case of the Oki Pinocchi, I thought it was a forest or a bottom line hardwood swamp. You'd think from reading this, but apparently it's called a nonriverine swamp forest. Right. And that is a forested swamp that fills up from non river sources, basically rain or groundwater. Right. So what would make a forested swamp like a bottom line hardwood swamp is a proximity to a river that floods its banks or that is just so big it kind of spills over into some of the surrounding land. And that surrounding land is swamped. I want to look that up, though. I'm not quite sure. Dave's right. Okay. So it's either river fed or groundwater fed or precipitation fed. And if you're talking bottom line hardwood swamps or a river fed swamp, there's usually also a shrub swamp, which is a transition or buffer zone between the forested swamp and somebody's backyard, which is just dominated by shrubs. But it's all the same thing. It's all freshwater swamp. Yeah. I bet you anything the Okie Pinocchi has several different types of these would be my guess, because there were full on lakes that we paddled through. So that would be my guess. And I also think if I had a country band, we would be the bottom land, hardwood swamp rats. Oh, that's a good one. Not bad. That sounds like an all star band. Oh, sure, yeah. So another kind of wetland that you're going to find all over the place, especially in Europe, which when I think of bogs and fens, I think of Europe, but apparently plenty of them in the United States, too. But bogs and fens are kind of their own thing. Bogs in particular are very unique as far as wetlands go, because not only are they anaerobic, which by definition wetland is anaerobic soil, they're like very little nutrient and very high acidity. I've heard, like, the kind of acid that is put out by the peat that's created in the bog has the same acidity, roughly a vinegar. Yeah, it's really acidic stuff. And yet some plants prefer it. Like you can grow cranberries and blueberries in a bog. Sure. You can preserve a body from the Iron Age forward in a bog. Did we ever cover that, the bog bodies? I feel like we did. Maybe it might have been one of our video things on YouTube. Maybe mummies, because I think, if I remember correctly, our mummy episode covered more than just Egyptian mummies covered, like, inko mummies. And the bog people. I'm sure we did. We saw some when we went to our UK trip. We got to visit some of those cats, like, first hand, like right there in that glass. Right. All you have to do is smash it with a hammer and it's yours. You got a bog person. Yeah. Or at least whatever you can grab, like a bog ear, right? It just crumbles in your hand. But I was looking, I was like, okay. Why are the bog so great for preservation? Part of it, from what I understand, is that acidity, that the bodies are actually pickled. But another part is the aerobic life is so devoid there, there's just anaerobic bacteria and they don't decompose nearly as well as aerobic bacteria. So the decomposition doesn't fit in and the remains are pickled. So you can preserve a body in a really great state for, like, toland band. His whiskers are still intact on his face. That was the level of preservation. And he was sacrificed into a bog, which is a very specific kind of wetland. Yeah, and a fan. Like I said, it's F-E-N. It's sort of like a bog in that it is a petty wetland, but they're a little bit different than bogs. The water supply doesn't come primarily from rain, and it comes from the ground. So it's going to be less acidic because I don't think we mentioned I know it's partially because of the peak, but the acidity also comes from the fact that there's acid and rain that gets filling up, that fills up these bogs. Right. But not the case in a fin. No, because that groundwater is able to kind of dilute it a little bit. So they're much more nutrient rich than a bogus, so they're going to have a much wider, diverse range of plants and animal life. Yeah. And I love that. This next section from Day was called other Fun Types of Wetlands. Yeah. Mud Flats. Yeah, you got your mud flats. It's another good country band. My favorite are seats. These are just gorgeous little pieces of nature, if you ask me. If you have a spring that comes up out of the ground, it spills over into the ground. So the surrounding ground is wetland, and it's called a seep. That's right. It's where gnomes like go and shower. Yeah. And it's not like you said, it's a spring. So it's not like a creek. No, it's actually coming up from the ground. You ever drink from a natural spring? I did when I was a kid and my mom fired the babysitter that took a drink from the spring. Yeah. She was like, what are you doing? It was either spring or like a river in Ohio, two very different things. If it was like a Kioka River, then you're in bad shape. It was on fire while we were drinking. But, I mean, we have creeks. If you're listening, you've never been to Atlanta. Atlanta has creeks all over the place. Like, all of the in town neighborhoods just are riddled with creeks. They're just sort of out of view. But we have a Creek 120ft from our house. Sure. Which might have something to do with our drainage. Who knows? And it's springfed. No, it's just a part of the Atlanta. Probably all comes from the Chattahoochee at some point. Sure. So, Chuck, if that creek behind your house started meandering in a different direction and left a body of water where it originally flowed, it would be an oxpo lake. But if you were in Australia and you were calling it the proper aboriginal name, you'd call it a billabong. A billabong, which I had no idea. What does that have to do with surfing? Oh, I think they just probably coopted the name and it became more associated with surf and surf gear than its true meaning. That doesn't seem right. No. Let's take it back. But that's what an oxpau lake is in Australia, among the Aborigines. It is a billabong, which is great billabong that was some, like, along with Op, was one of the prime T shirts to have when you were a kid in the yeah, if you were cool. I had this amazing opie, long sleeve blue shirt, that I wore with my parachute pants. Yeah, those were the best. My British Knights. I remember those long sleeve op shirts. Yes, they're good. Gorgeous. So, Chuck, one of the things we've been talking about is the characteristics that make a wetland a wetland. And it's not just the fact that the soil table or the ground is either flooded or almost completely flooded up to the surface level with water. That's not the entirety of it. Like different wetlands are characterized by how that water gets to it. Like we said, some kinds of swamps are fed by groundwater, others are fed by precipitation, some are tidal. So there's a whole group of scientists out there that are called wetland hydrologists. And what they study is how that water gets into a wetland to create a wetland, what happens to it while it's there and then where it goes, and how all these things kind of interact to form this very unique ecosystem. Yeah, and we talked early on about the kind of soil, hydra soil is saturated with water, and so if it's saturated with water, it's not going to have nearly as much oxygen. And usually oxygen and soil are in these little tiny air pockets. Remember, we talked about it in our soil episode? Yeah, exactly. And in the case of a wetland, and those air pockets are going to be filled with water or just collapsed altogether, and then you've got your anaerobic condition. But if your plant, you need CO2 and oxygen, and you'll get a little bit of that from photosynthesis and the leaves, but the roots are like, what about me down here? I need oxygen, too. And if it was an aerobic soil like we talked about in the Soil podcast, the roots can get it from those air pockets. But in wetlands, they have to really adapt to become hydrophilic or water loving plants in some pretty amazing ways. So I just have to say that this is like a lifelong mystery solved and solved in the simplest way possible. Like it's anaerobic because there's water there instead of air. The air can't be in there because the water is there. IPSO facto, anaerobic. I just think that's brilliantly simple. Yeah. Did you get that intuitively? Because I never did. I always thought it was something mysterious, like we're talking about a whole different type of soil or something else. No, I think I got it. Okay, well, I've been around for 44 years and wondered it until just now. Well, I'm 49, so I might have wanted that in the last five years. So the plants that we're talking about, like you said, the roots still need oxygen. So they said, okay, well, I really like it here. I like this wetland area. This is pretty amazing place to live. I'm going to change so that I can stay here. And some of the ways that plants have adapted well, one good example is a cat tail, right? Cat tails are pretty much synonymous with marshlands. Yeah, they're beautiful. That long, thin stem with, like, a big fat thing on top, like a hot dog that's ready to be roasted on the fire. Yeah. I grew up with those. I don't know if it was a Southern thing, but it can be decorative items in the home. And I grew up, I feel like, with a lot of cattails in vases and stuff. Okay, so that in wasp's nest. Yeah. Hornet's nest. Yeah. So cattails have this thing called erinium. No, I've got Aaronikima. I think I got it. Anyway, they're like these channels that basically direct air from the leaves and the stem and every other part of the cat tail down to the roots. So here you go. Roots. Here's some oxygen fresh from the leaf. Yeah. So that cat tail can have as much roots as it wants down in this anaerobic soil. It doesn't matter because it's getting its oxygen from the air through the leaves. Yeah. One of my favorites is the speckled alder. You just look up a picture of that and they have these enlarged pores called lenticills, and they allow for the passage of oxygen directly into that wood. And if you look up a picture and you see those, you go, oh, that's what those are. That's what those are for. They look like someone took a knife. And they're just tiny little horizontal slits all up and down the alder. I got you. And they're breathing, basically. Yeah. That's creepy as heck, but it's like really neat little mouth, little slitty mouth. So the grasses that we talked about growing in salt marshes, just like an iguana sneezes out excess salt as part of digestion things like cord grass that grow in these salt marshes, they actually excrete salts through their leaves so they can sit there and intake all the nutrients they need from this selenic environment and still not get overloaded with salt. It's just pretty amazing that they can do that. Yeah. And then to me, maybe the most amazing and this is where the mangroves kind of come back in. Although the mangroves apparently utilize all these to stick around. But the bald cypress, they grow in those forested swamps where there's always water, and they are deciduous conifers, and they grow this root structure that they call a knee. It's a new metaphor, but like a knee on your leg is how it's spelled. And they just sit above the waterline and take in oxygen. And that's what those, I guess mangroves. Mangroves. There's a soul train joke in there somewhere that struck me as like a terrible jamband name. The mangroves. Yeah, you're right. That plays somewhere in Florida, probably. Probably. But the mangrove uses, like I said, a lot of these tricks. And I think certainly when you see those roots, they're using those knees. Yes. Which is basically a way to get oxygen from the surrounding air down to the. Roots. The mangroves do it. The bald cypress do it. Mangroves have all those adaptations, different species. They can do things like excrete salt. They can draw oxygen in from the environment. They have channels where they can pump oxygen from one part of the plant to the other. The one that gets me, though, I'm just fascinated by bogs. So he said that it's an acidic, anaerobic, nutrient depleted environment, and yet there's still plants that live there. And one of those plants, or one kind of plant, is carnivorous plants. They get their nutrients not from the soil, but from eating bugs. Yeah, those are cool. So they can just live there, like a pitcher plant or a Venus flytrap or something like that? Yeah, those are nature. Wasn't Venus Flytrap one of the DJs on WKRP? That's a great DJ name. Yeah, he was a great DJ. All right, so let's take our final break, and we'll talk about why wetlands are important and what you can do to help them do their thing right after this. Okay, Chuck, just the fact that wetlands are as amazing as they are means that they should be saved. But there's also, like, a lot of benefits that we figured out, like you said, that the were really rough time for wetlands in the United States because we were filling them in for cropland, for real estate. And even previous to that, we filled in a lot of marshland in the US. And built cities over them, like DC was built largely on marshland. The fact that mosquitoes tend to live in wetland areas kind of justified filling in a lot of the wetlands, because we were dealing with malaria at the time, so it made a lot of sense. Get rid of the mosquitoes habitat, you get rid of the mosquitoes. And it worked. But we've paid a heavy price for it, because over time, we've realized these wetlands provide some really important benefits to the local ecosystems and in turn, humans who live around them. Yeah, I mean, helping flood conditions is a big one. They are big natural sponges when it comes down to it. And flooding would be way worse. And we still have floods, obviously, but it'd be way worse if we didn't have wetlands. They'd be far more destructive if they weren't around to soak in that excess water and then kind of slowly trickle it to the water table below. And the same is obviously true of hurricanes and big storm surges. The wetlands basically operate as big storage tanks for water. Yeah, I saw somewhere I can't find it now. There it is. An acre of wetlands can hold up to about a million and a half gallons of water. Just one acre. So you got to think, like, that water is staying put there, and it's not flooding some human habitation instead, which is a good reason to keep wetlands around just for that buffer area or to slow down the surge, like you were saying. I also saw that we found out the same thing goes for beaver dams that they build. They're like a temporary artificial wetland, and they provide a lot of the same functions that I guess naturally occurring or growing wetlands provide, too. And I think we should do a whole episode on beavers. Okay, totally. I'm way into beavers. So water filtration is another big service that wetlands provide. I don't remember where we talked about this, but we talked about it recently. Where the water? Oh, I think it was water treatment plants. Yes. The water is brought in, and it's got all the sediment and gunk and muck, and it's cloudy and turbid, and then it slows down. They slow it down, like running it through some grates or whatever. And as it slows down, the sediment that is making the water turbine and polluted and everything has a chance to settle the bottom. Well, wetlands provide that same function naturally. So when you have a bunch of polluted water basically come through there, it slows down when it hits all those mangrove roots or tree trunks or whatever it is, and it gives it a chance for that sediment to fall to the bottom. It gets sucked up by the tree roots and stored in the trees or the microbial life can break a lot of that stuff down, too. And there's definitely a limit to where you can very easily overload the wetlands ability to filter the water. But if you gave it like a manageable supply, that is a major service that it does. It cleans our water. They call wetlands the kidneys of the earth. Yes. And they've even done studies where they tried to, I guess, sort of monetize what an area of wetland might do if it were a treatment plant. And there's one in South Carolina called the congarie bottomland hardwood swamp. These are just all country bands for sure. They said that that is basically equivalent to about a $5 million water treatment plant just sitting there, being a wetland doing its thing. Thank you. Nature pretty amazing. I saw that beavers provide the dams that they build that end up being temporary wetlands. Somebody estimated it's worth about 100 grand if a human tried to build an artificial one, which we do. If you just let beavers do their thing, they will do the same thing for free. That's right. You don't have to pay them 100 grand. No, there's also because there's so much going on in a wetland, there's so much life. They kind of form like these metropolises for all sorts of different types of animals on all the way up the food chain, including plants, animals, microbial life, worms, fish, larger predators like dolphins and alligators. And all of them are sitting there providing food for us. If you like gatortail, buddy, you better preserve those wetlands. Yes. Dave points out here that the commercial fishing industry in the US. 75% of the fish and shellfish harvested here had fish that at least had a temporary home in the wetlands. And that recreationally. If you're a recreational fish person, fisher person, then 90% of the US. Fish catch. At least the breeding ground lies in the wetlands for those fish. And the same thing goes for birds, too. They're enormously important habitats for birds, some permanent, but also migratory, too. Because if you're flying along and you're a bird and you are a water bird, and you need a place to land, not only are you looking for water, but you might really enjoy a swamp because it offers protection from predators. It offers a port in the storm. It's just an all around valuable thing for birds, too. Yeah. I mean, imagine flying from Canada to Texas, and you're going over Oklahoma. You're a little tired. You look down, you see one of those. Which ones were those? The prairie plyas? No, the prairie potholes. Prairie potholes? Yeah. Oh, man. What is the website? Aren't you describing a scene in Jonathan Livingston Seaggle? Probably. So the point is, we need to take care of our wetlands because they are a threatened, diverse, very useful place all over the world, especially here in the United States. And if they are threatened, and if things happen, there are going to be all kinds of bad things vegetative damage, the plant life just being maybe wiped out altogether, storm surges being way worse, flooding being way worse. It especially helps to see the value in them if you consider them a buffer zone between us and the hardest ravages of nature. Yeah. And like you mentioned, pollution. There is a limit, but they do absorb and mitigate levels of water pollution, and they just can't take too much of us. Right, exactly. Which, man, if there's anything that characterizes humans in the 20th and 21st centuries, it's too much of us. Yeah. You know what I mean? What can we do, though? Well, besides donating to wetland projects, we can definitely do that. You can definitely do that. There's some good ones out there. I believe ducks Unlimited is one of them. The Wetlands Initiative. Natural Resources Defense Council wetlands International. But apparently in the United States, something like 75% of wetlands are on privately owned property. And in the United States, we have I mean, private property is one of, like, the fundamental tenants of American society. So if you say, I want to fill in this wetland and kill off these beavers, you're allowed to do that. Whether that's a good idea and whether that's going to affect other people, that's a different story. So if you own private property with a wetland on it, and you're doing just fine with that wetland, leave the wetland alone. It's very important. Yeah, I guess this is where it gets a little tricky in definitions, because in plenty of places there are restrictions on building near water like this. Sure. I guess I just don't know. Like you can't build in a flood zone. I mean it depends on where you are, but in Atlanta you can't. And then with all these creeks and streams in Atlanta they have what's called stream buffers. Sure. 50 ft. 75 foot, 100 foot, and I think 25 is the lowest. And for these you have to get variances to do anything which your neighborhood has to approve. And I talked to a guy that apparently anything under 75ft is pretty tricky to get approved. So I don't know if they're wetlands or not, but there are restrictions on stuff like that. Okay, so that brings up the next point of what you and I and everybody else can do, which is vote for people to local elected office who part of their platform is protecting wetlands. Like all of those buffer zones, all those variances and all those prohibitions, those came from Atlanta city councils over the years that decided that wetlands needed protecting. You don't find those everywhere, but once they get put in place, they usually don't get repealed very easily. So if you make preserving wetlands part of what you're voting for, that would have an impact for sure. Yeah. And whatever you're voting for, just vote. Okay, vote. Especially if I had to say that I know everyone, the presidential elections are always the big sexy votes, but the local politics matters even more almost sometimes. Yeah, I vote for all of it. Take an interest in your society. Okay, well, you got anything else about wetland? No, I don't neither. This is a good one. I'm pretty happy with it. And since I said that everybody, it's time for listener mail. Yeah, I'm going to call this the first sy five K. Oh yeah. Do you see these? Yes. Man congratulations everybody who took part. Yes. So what happened was some Stuff You Should Know listeners got together and put together a five K. Something You Should Know five K. And we got periodic updates from Aaron Huey, mizell or maizel, I'm not sure how you pronounce it. I'm going with Misel Misel. But this is the final email about how it went. Hey guys, I just want to let you know that the S Y five K is over. It was so nice to look at everyone's pictures and hear what episodes of Stuff You Should Know they listen to because that was the idea. I imagine some people might have fudged that and listened to Mark Marin or whatever. They're disqualified. I think a lot of us have suffered from a lack of human connection at this time and the silly little virtual event gave us something to bond over. I don't think I would have tried this with any other group of people. The Stuff You Should Know army is wonderful and it speaks volumes in regard to you guys. The tone that you set in your podcast, interesting and funny, carries over into your fan base and has created a little lovely corner of the Internet. I totally agree, Aaron. And the same can be said of the Movie Crush page. Very good people. Not snipy or rude and going after each other on Facebook, which is kind of what Facebook seems to be all about. Oh, yeah. It's like a garden paradise over there in the Sisk Army page. Yeah, it's great. Now, I'm not suggesting that you made these people wonderful, but the average Stuff You Should Know army Bomber is like, that interesting, funny, and willing to participate in a virtual Five K with a complete stranger. And they love Streep. Waffles. I even bought 13 Stuff You Should Know stickers to send out to some people as prizes. It's just a little thing, but everyone that I've been in touch with has been exceedingly kind. This is what we need right now, these small human connections. A podcast to listen to and laugh with, a walk, run, bear chase to do virtually with a bunch of near strangers, and a Stuff You Should Know sticker to put on your fridge or on your laptop. If you get a chance, go to the event page and scroll through some of the posts. They're delightful. Like the woman who did our Five K at three months postpartum and crushed it, or the dad who pushed his adorable daughter in her stroller on the Five K while listening to his favorite episode, which was spam. We had first timers. Yeah, it was a good one. We had first timers, people recovering from injury runners and walkers. So many smiles and stuff you should know. T shirts? Sign off for now, but just writing to tell you is a success. We might even do it again with love. And that is again from Aaron huey. Misell. And that is great. Aaron thank you for doing this. And that really does speak to the quality of our listeners in every single way. Indubitably. Yeah. Thanks a lot, Erin. It's good to hear from you and everybody who participated in the S Y Five K. You are the champions, our friends, even if you listen to Mark Marin. But maybe that's what Chuck just said. That's it. Okay, well, if you want to get in touch with us, like Aaron did and do something interesting, we want to hear about it. You can write to us in an email to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is the production of Iheartradios how stuff works. For more podcasts My Heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows." | |
How Nicotine Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-nicotine-works | Sure, nicotine doesn't cause cancer, but it does rearrange the brain's reward system. Humans have been ingesting this plant for more than 6,000 years, but we generally understood little of it. Join Chuck and Josh as they explain how nicotine works. | Sure, nicotine doesn't cause cancer, but it does rearrange the brain's reward system. Humans have been ingesting this plant for more than 6,000 years, but we generally understood little of it. Join Chuck and Josh as they explain how nicotine works. | Tue, 31 May 2011 16:26:46 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2011, tm_mon=5, tm_mday=31, tm_hour=16, tm_min=26, tm_sec=46, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=151, tm_isdst=0) | 31766221 | audio/mpeg | "Are you looking for an escape? An immersive getaway experience? Well, there's a place for all your wildest dreams. Perhaps you enjoy wrapping along the paperboy or you believe that blessed be the fruit. Or you dream of one day smashing a glass while stealing. Who's. Ah. Whether you're sworn to Team Kim or you just want a good old fashioned mysterious murder, there's a place that has it all. From Atlanta to only murders in the building, it's all on Hulu. So check into your obsessions. Hulu subscription is required. Terms apply. Visit hulu.com for plan details brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry it's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W. Chuck Bryant that makes this stuff. You should know the podcast. How's it going, man? Podcast intro, version one. Okay. Point one. How are you doing? I'm well, sir. And you're enjoying, I guess we can't say, a whole lot of beverages. Not anymore. Remember we used to just blatantly say stuff you're enjoying a sparkling water. I can say that out of a can. Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah. Why are we just determined to push it to the envelope? I don't know. Saying in brand name, it rhymes with the boy say Chuck. Yeah. You know, I was a smoker for a while. Yeah. And one could make a pretty good argument that I started out at an unreasonably young age. No, you weren't young. I was young. You weren't young. No, I was young. How old were you? Let me paint you a picture. Okay. So first time I tried cigarette it's in the mall. I'm young enough so that the guy who owns the pub in the mall that has the cigarette machine. Then I'm buying cigarettes, comes out and it's like, we could do it. But we made off with our cigarettes and smoked one and the mall started spinning and everything was just crazy. Right? You could smoke in the mall. Yes. It was a while ago. Yeah, that was the first time. The second time was a few months later, 8th grade. And my friends and I all decided that it was high time we started smoking. So we pull all of our money together and ended up with enough, we figured, for ten packs of cigarettes. So everybody gave me the money. I got on my bike and rode to the gas station. Rode up on my bike like the cashier saw me, this kid who's 13, ride up on his bike no, 14, just turned, put his bike down and walk in and go, I want ten packs of cigarettes. Assorted brands. Exactly. I bought like cools. I bought Marlborough, I bought Kent Dorals, like anything, I like that one. Can you slim. And I remember that cashier just like, okay, here you go, kid. And sent me off with a bag of ten packs of cigarettes dangling from the handlebars of my bike, it's probably like $10, too. It was about $10 back in the day. And I get back to the woods, everybody's like, oh, my God, we just started smoking. And right off the bat, I started smoking tons of cigarettes. Were you inhaling at the time? Yeah, and I turned green, got sick and still was like, I like this a lot and smoked for 20 years. That is nuts. And Chuck. Today is April 28. And how many days are there in April? 30 or 31? I'm going to guess 31. I am going to go with 31, too, and I'm going to say no, 30. Okay. In three days on May 1, it'll be one year since I've had a cigarette. Wow, man, it was a long time. Kicked it. Congratulations. I smoked, too. You did? Probably never even shared that with me. I had no idea that you smoked. Yes, I smoked in college, like everyone does here and there. You have dead hands while you smoked in college. Yeah, but it wasn't ever anything that got its nicotine never took a hold of me to where I needed a cigarette. It was always very much a social thing. And then when I traveled around Europe, of course I rolled my own cigarettes and thought I was just super cool. But you know what, kids? I was not cool. I was dumb. No, I want to add that too. There was absolutely nothing cool about what I did. No, there's nothing adventurous. And many times over the course of my life, I cursed myself, I cursed that cashier. I haven't cursed my bike for allowing me to make one of the worst decisions of my entire life that I regretted time and time and time again. You cursed Abraham Lincoln because he was on the $25 bills that you used to pay for it. Abraham, probably he was on the pennies that we use to pay for the ten packs of cigarettes. So nicotine got under my skin, chuck, as it were, which is one of a few ways it can diffuse into the human body. That's right. Should we talk about tobacco for a second here? At the beginning, that was cultivated as early as 6000 BC. People chewing on or inhaling tobacco, they realize, hey, this is pretty good. Yeah. Native Americans, I'm not sure what tribes, they used to roll like, cigars that were several feet long and somebody would hold it at the end, maybe another one in the middle, and you'd walk up and you'd puff on them, like really hard and inhale until you started coughing. And then from the coughing you'd get light headed and supposedly you had a vision. Interesting. Well, I do know that as early as the 1600, people actually thought, you know what, this might be bad for you. And I bet you there's a link here to some of these diseases that are killing people in the smoke that we're inhaling. Yes. And I didn't know that. I had no idea it went back that far. I didn't either. Concerns about smoking. Right. And cancer. Apparently they were aware of the cancer back then as well. Yeah. They probably call it like spirit intrusion or something instead. But they knew that there was something to smoking. They also thought it was medicinal, which, as we'll see towards the end of this podcast, has actually made something of a resurgence. The medicinal properties of nicotine. So this is nicotine go. Nicotiana tobacco. Yes, nicotine. Nicotiana tobacco. What did I say? No, I think that's right. Okay. I said it wrong. I like your Latin, Chuck. Thank you. It's making a big comeback these days. It is. So nicotine, Josh, is a liquid alkaloid. Yeah, it's the only one. Most alkaloids are white solids. Really? Yes. Including caffeine. Yeah. Okay. I saw on a page that nicotine is the only liquid. All right, well, I believe it, then. It is an organic compound, alkaloid is. And it's made of carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, and sometimes a little oxygen in there and sometimes why. And nicotine makes up about 5% of a tobacco plant, if you're talking weight. But cigarettes contain between eight and 20 milligrams of nicotine per cigarette. But here's an important distinction. You only ingest about 1 that into your body when you smoke a cigarette. It's absorbed. You ingest more, but only about a milligram. Good point. Say it in Latin. Chuck. Absorb them. Nicotine. So, like I said, nicotine got under my skin, which is one of three ways that it can be absorbed, right? Yeah. Through the skin, into the lungs and mucous membranes, like the lining of your nose and gums. And if you think, who would snort tobacco? That's what Snuff was. And is done that, too. Sniff snuff. Yeah. They still make that stuff? They do. It's a real old timing, I think. You can only find it at the customer service counter at a Pig Lea wiggly. And it's still there from the night. My grandfather's company actually made snuff in Tennessee. Your grandfather, RJ. Reynolds? No, he didn't own the company, but he was like a manager of the workers on the floor. I think I got you. So he exploited people? Yes. And they also made, like, candy, popcorn and stuff. That was weird. It's one of those companies that made all kinds of crazy things. Wow. It was not our Gemini. Okay, so nicotine, and we're talking about how it gets into your body, it's absorbed, it moves into the blood vessels that line these tissues straight into the bloodstream and then pretty much directly to the brain. Where does it whammo effects. Right. That's right out of the way that you can ingest nicotine into the body. The lungs are the most efficient. Right. Which is why they're cigarettes. Right, exactly. The inhaling nicotine, through smoking tobacco, introduces this drug, this alkaloid, to the alveoli, which are the little tiny air sacs where gas exchange occurs. And this is the fact of the podcast for me. Okay, let's hear it. The alveoli, right? Little millions of tiny little gas bags. Cute little gas bags. Very cute. If you combine their surface area, the total surface area, they have 90 times more surface area than the human skin. Wow. And I imagine that's like an average sized person, but still, it's pretty impressive. Yeah. Which, again, is why people smoke it. And we're going to say cigarettes a lot, but obviously this includes cigars and pipe smoke in any way. You're going to ingest tobacco, dip, snuff if you're still doing the snuff. Right, the snuff. But we're going to say cigarettes mainly. That's fine. Okay. That's the most popular way, I believe. That's right. 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Just go to stamps.com. Click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. So, Josh, we said here's an interesting thing, too, about the halflife. Is that right? Is that how halflife works? It said that nicotine has a half life of 60 minutes. So 6 hours after cigarette, that 1 MG that was in your body is now 00:31. That didn't seem quite right, but I guess it is. I don't know. Chuck well, that's what it says, so that's what we're going to go with. But how does your body get rid of this stuff? How does it process it for removal, but several ways. 80% of it is broken down by your liver. Right. Okay. Some is metabolized by your lungs and turned into coding and nicotine oxide. Yeah. And codonine. I looked that up. It's an alkaloid as well, and also an anagram for nicotine. And it does pretty much the same thing as nicotine, just at a much lower potency. Got you. And alkaloids, by the way, tend to really mess with humans. Like, there are different types of alkaloids, but under the large umbrella of alkaloids, you have strictnine nightshade, opium, psilocybin, hemlock, ergot, anything that can get you wasted or kill you is an alkaloid based right. You can also get rid of cotenine through your urine. So it takes about 24 hours to get rid of coating that way. So you can actually do a nicotine p test a day after or within a day. You can also do a smell test that works, too, with the breath or the clothes or the hair or whatever. Here's. The fact of the podcast for me, Josh, is that some people have a genetic defect and the enzymes in their liver, that the mutant enzyme is less effective at metabolizing nicotine. So some people are born able to smoke less, yet retain the feeling they get from smoking longer. There's a time in my life when I would have called those people lucky. Yeah. Well, I guess if you're going to smoke, it's better to smoke less. But I still wouldn't shouldn't mess with it at all. Agreed, Chuck? Agreed. It's so good to hear you say these things, because you used to say how much you loved cigarettes. I know, but I think in this one, even if I did still smoke, I would advise never to take it up. Chuck, let's talk about the effects of nicotine. It is an alkaloid, which means it's drug, basically. Which means it has an effect on a couple of parts of the brain, right? Yes. And not just the brain, but the body. One of the first responses the body has to nicotine is the release of adrenaline, which kicks in our dear old friend, the fight or flight response, right? Yes. And that's initially, but can also what they call it biphasic. Yeah. It can invigorate and relax. Yeah. And that sounds a little odd until you think about something like alcohol, which has the same qualities many times, which is why the girl at the bar is all fired up at first. And then later on, why do they hate me so much? Right. Or I can't hold my head up. Right? The last couple of shows, the last couple of comedy shows I've been to, there have been chatty drunk girls who have just been overly courageous in expressing what was on their mind loudly at any given moment. Heckling. Or just too loud? Heckling, but not heckling. Like, you're a bad comedian. Just like the guy was telling a joke and she'd be like, I work at Home Depot and you're talking to Bob Gold Plate right now, and I have no idea what he's going to do. Zach Galifinakeis has some classic YouTube bits dealing with hecklers. Yeah. This one girl in particular, Slade, it's really good. Everyone I've seen, though, has done a pretty good job with these people. It's the worst part of the job, from what I would imagine. So, Chuck, you've got the release of adrenaline. Also, we have an explanation for why people who smoke tend to eat less. Yeah. You hear oral fixation and I imagine that probably has a lot to do with people putting on the weight after they quit smoking. Right. But if you smoke, you can go fairly long without food. And now we understand why nicotine sends some signals to your brain, right? Here, let me do a little dramatic reading. So nicotine to the body, hey, buddy, go ahead and dump a lot of the glucose stores in your cells into the bloodstream. Okay. Yeah. Body says, okay. And the nicotine says, and by the way, I don't want you releasing any insulin. Insulin absorbs glucose in the bloodstream, and the body's like, okay. And then the nicotine goes, okay, well, now that you have a bunch of glucose in your bloodstream, don't you think that you've just eaten in our full? And the body goes, you know, I do. And the insulin goes, exactly. Right. Yeah. So that's called hyper glycemic. And like you said, basically it makes you feel like you're not hungry, and it also increases your basal metabolic rate. So you're going to burn more calories sitting around smoking than you would if you were just sitting around. And this all sounds awesome. What? I eat less and I just burn calories sitting around? It sounds awesome, but unfortunately, it's not like, oh, I can lose weight smoking. And that's like exercise, because what you're actually doing is killing yourself over the long haul. Right. And speaking of basil or basal metabolic rate, that is something that apparently is very overlooked with people who exercise and count calories and things like that. How do you hear that? It just sounded like Sylvester the cat. First thing, if you exercise and you burn 500 calories, people are like, well, that's pretty awesome. I just burned 500 calories. But they're not taking into account the basal metabolic rate, which is, hey, you just not going to the gym and stay at home. You would have burned 150 calories. So really, you only burned 350 calories. You have to take your net calorie burn to really figure out how much weight you lose exercising. Yes. Well, I don't ever look at, like, on a treadmill. I don't ever pay attention to you burn this many calories. I don't either. I just go for time. Like, you know what, I gave my heart to work out for 45 minutes. Exactly. And I didn't fall over dead. Exactly. And I never weigh myself either. Oh, I do. Do you really? Yeah, I just fixed my scale, actually, the batteries. I'll fix it. I put a battery in it, and it had been out for, like, four or five months, and I felt myself getting fatter, and I weighed myself, and I was actually, like, a pound less than I was six months ago, so it was all in my head. Well, it's not great. Ideally, I'm \u00a320 less than I was six months ago. I've just been reintroduced to my hip bones lately. Yeah, that's good. You can start wearing the hip hoggers. You haven't noticed. Sorry. Okay, so, Chuck, cigarettes will kill you is where we left off because they will raise your bad cholesterol level, damage your arteries, and eventually you are in line for a heart attack or stroke. Yes. Well, we'll get into it later. Let's talk about the brain. Yeah. And I don't think that's much of a spoiler. No. Cigarettes kill you. The irony of it is the nicotine won't kill you. I mean, the nicotine can kill you, but you literally have to overdose on it. And it takes more than you could get from cigarettes. Yes, it's other chemicals, the thousands of other chemicals in a cigarette that kill you. Well, I'm glad you said that, because that's a huge point. The other chemicals are killing you. The nicotine is what makes you smoke over and over and over again. So it's a one two punch of death. Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about what happens in the brain that gets you basically addicted. First up, as with anything, is the reward pathway is manipulated, right? So just like with cocaine or alcohol or anything like that, dopamine is released, which is how we learn how to eat and reproduce and do anything that causes our own or our species survival, we're rewarded, right? Yes. Well, nicotine unlocks the release of dopamine, which teaches us to smoke again, right? That's right. But even more than that, a smarter neurotransmitter, and I do kind of think that dopamine is kind of a dumb, fat, Chris Farley kind of neurotransmitter, just kind of like out for a good time. Acetylcholine. That guy is slick. That's like a Patrick Bateman kind of neurotransmitter. That's right. And nicotine docks to this, binds to this neurotransmitter, and that's where it all happens, basically. May I interject, please. Rip. Chris Farley, I know for a fact that he was not dumb. He was a very smart guy. I was talking more about his buffoon like characters that you played, not him specifically. We don't want to speak kill of the Dead, especially not Chris fartland. That's right. So we just mentioned the CETA choline, which the nicotine binds to this neurotransmitter. When you smoke, it's going to increase the release of acetylcholine. And the problem is that acetylcholine is great and the body everybody loves acetylcholine. The body regulates the release of it in the proper way. But when nicotine gets involved, it's just out of control. Willynilly, aceticoline going crazy in your body, right? A bunch of acetylcholine being released means a bunch of activity in the cholinergic neurons, right? So the cholinergic neurons basically tell your body, like, hey, wake up, Bob. Let's go do something. Let's go rollerskate, or something like that. Cholinergic neurons also promote dopamine release. So you're up and at them. You're feeling good, you're feeling euphoric. Endorphins are released, which is the body's natural painkiller. Yes. You've heard of the runner's high? That is endorphins going crazy at the end of your long jog. Exactly. And then lastly, the thing that cements it all is the release of glutamate, which glutamate has been shown to enhance neural connections. Connections between the neural pathways, which enhances memory. You remember we talked about memory. That's right. We didn't talk about glutamate. Yeah. How do we miss that? I don't know. Yes. Well, what can happen here is when you ingest nicotine, glutamate can create a memory loop of how awesome it is. And now you've got this recurring film playing in your head, like, smoking is great. Smoking is great. Having a cigarette over and over and over. Yes. A deadly concoction. Yeah. So that's what happens. You lose weight, you feel great. Right. But you're slowly dying. Yes. But we mentioned earlier that there's medicinal value to nicotine specifically. Right? Yes. Because it has this effect on your cholinergic pathways. It could help with Alzheimer's. They're finding Alzheimer's is a loss of cholinergic neurons. That's right. Which leads to memory loss, that kind of thing. You're not quite as active. You are angry, and you don't know why. Right? That's right. They're finding that nicotine can help replace these, or it can, at the very least, stop the loss of cholinergic neurons and promote the activity of the ones that are still around. That's right. Hence reversing the effects of Alzheimer's or forestalling it. That's right. And Tourette Syndrome is another thing they're looking into. Now with nicotine patches, slowly delivering nicotine can reduce the episodes of Tourette's ticks and outbursts. I don't even know if we covered that in Tourette. This may be news to us. Yes. Anyone who hasn't heard Tourette's Syndrome yet, go back and listen to it's a good one. Yeah, it is. But, Chuck, again, we want to specify that you are much more likely to die from ingesting nicotine via the current ways that we have it. We have to ingest it than you are to gain any kind of benefit. Right? That's right. Cancer, obviously. Emphysema, heart disease, stroke, and the nicotine is what gets you addicted. And all the thousands of chemicals in the cigarette is what kills you, and it will kill you. I mean, if you smoke your whole life, you're very much a rarity. If you're one of those people that's like smoking for 50 years and not suffering any ill effects, that's really rare. Sometimes I feel death over my shoulder. Really? Now you're healing, man. You can reverse the effects. That's what's so good about it. Yeah, you can reverse the effects, but you can also do lasting damage. Well, all sorts of time bombs in your body after smoking thousands and thousands of cigarettes over 20 years. True. But you're doing good, buddy. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office, then? You could be using stamps.com yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses, because stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and Ups shipping services you need right. From your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS. Rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the homepage and enter code stuff. So, Chuck, we talked about it being psychologically addictive, right? Very much. You do. It compulsively. The definition of this is you are compulsively engaging in an activity that you know will harm you. Yes. You're still doing it. Yes. And it is physiologically. Anything neuroscientists, basically say anything that synthetically turns on your reward pathway is addictive. Right. And that cigarettes, for sure. Yes. Or nicotine, specifically. And we also mentioned, Chuckers, that nicotine itself is harmful if you overdose on it. Yeah, but it's very difficult to overdose on it, because, remember, there's eight to 20 milligrams of nicotine and a cigarette, but your body only ingests about one. It's very difficult to overdose by way of smoking inhalation. It is. But if you're a baby and you're dumb, you can eat cigarettes or cigarette butts and overdose on it. It doesn't take very much. Eating one cigarette can send a baby to the hospital with a lot of problems. Yes. And I looked this up, and it says so in this article, but I double checked that. Adults, if you eat, like, three to seven cigarettes as an adult, you will likely die. So don't do that. Don't ever eat a cigarette for any reason. But remember we talked about ambient people on ambient and waking up? I wondered about eating cigarettes. Yeah. And I was surprised. I thought it was like, oh, eat like, three packs of cigarettes and you might get really sick. But if you eat four or five, six cigarettes, you will likely die. Right. If you don't get to a hospital. So this all reminds me of a story of I hope somebody out there can help me with this. It was a feature article in GQ sometime between probably 1990 and 1994. Okay. Okay. It was about a bank robber. He was one of the most successful bank robbers of all time, because he figured out if you put a clown wig on glasses and then dangle ribbons from the glasses, no one will ever be able to give a good description of you, ever. So here's a very successful bank robber for a while. What about just wearing a mask? I don't know. That was the thing, though. Okay, this guy finally gets nabbed, right? And he's in prison, and he decides he needs to get out. So he takes a pack of cigarettes that I imagine he traded a few honey buns for. He unrolls the cigarettes and puts them in a cup of water, lets the cup of water sit overnight, goes around out into the prison yard during exercise time, runs around a couple of times, comes back in and immediately chugs this cup of nicotine water, of tobacco water, and falls right over, right? Yeah. So the hospital, the prisons like, we got to get this guy at the hospital, while the ambulance that shows up is full of paramedics who pulled guns on the prison guards. Get the guy into the back of the ambulance. It's his gang posing as paramedics. They take him to an underground doctor who revives him, and he lives. Does that really happen? According to the GQ article and my memory of the GQ article, sure. That's what happened. We could find that out a bit, but we can explain exactly what they would have treated him with to overcome this nicotine overdose, which he was surely suffering, can we? We can now. Well, what would they treat him with? Well, there's a couple of things you could do. You could get the nicotine out by giving them IPC, something to induce vomiting. Yeah, sure. Which you would probably want to do. You could also give them activated charcoal, which the carbon will attract the nicotine, the alkaloids, and will keep the body from absorbing more of it. But that's basically what you want to do, is to get out whatever you can and make sure nobody eats any more nicotine. Yeah. And I guess the only scenario no one would want to do that is the sleepy, hungover morning after when you reach over and grab what you think is that cup of soda. And it's really the thing that all your cigarette butts were gross. I knew a kid who would still drink beer with cigarette butts in it. Yeah, smart guy. I'm not talking about myself. Of course you're not. So nicotine, like we said, it gets in your body. Like any drug, your body will adapt to that drug and start behaving differently. So that's why when you quit, just like any drug, your body is going to say, wait a minute, like, I was functioning on a certain level here, and now you just took the nicotine away. So I don't know what to do. I'm used to a certain amount of cholinergic activity giving it to me, so I'm going to be really messed up for a while, and you're going to be really irritable, mr. Person who has my body. And you're going to be anxious, and you're going to be depressed, and you're going to crave me a lot for about a month and beyond. But a month physically, they say, is when it kind of will leave your system. But the psychological part, I know some people that quit smoking for a decade and they still crave that cigarette on occasion. I would meet people here and there who saw me smoking. Like, I quit 30 years ago and I still want a cigarette every day. And it scared me because I'm kind of like, I think I'd rather die than go live like that. Yeah, seriously. And now I understand what they're talking about, where it's like it's so manageable. Such a passing thought that I don't have it every day, but, I mean, I have had it where I'm like, that would be really great. What are your triggers? Smoke a cigarette. Probably having a drink for a lot of people. Alcohol and cigarettes. You would think so. No, I haven't noticed any actual triggers. A lot of it is association. Like, yes, if you drink, you want it, you want a cigarette. It's fleeting. It's more kind of out of the blue, not like stress related, not necessarily interesting. It's just kind of there underneath a certain part of your brain and it's kind of floats to the service every once in a while, but you just kind of batted away. Right. It's completely manageable out you. Yeah. Well, that's good. It's different for everybody. And the way it reacts in your body is different for everyone. Your tolerance level is going to be different for everybody. That's why some people smoke three packs a day, is because they need to keep recharging that hit of dopamine. And some people can get by with smoking the occasional cigarette. And our advice is to not ever start, avoid the whole mess. Yeah. And this is coming from a dude who loved to smoke and now you're just like, no, that's great. I love it. Thanks, Chuck. If you love nicotine and you want to learn more about it, if you love it on an intellectual level, I guess, is what I mean. You can learn more by typing in nicotine, right? Yes. I imagine you could also type in Codonine if you wanted to. And in the search bar@householdworks.com, which will bring up this article on nicotine. And search bar brings up listener mail. That's right. You almost caught me off guard. That was so slick, Josh. I'm going to call this follow up on Wacky Wills. We ask for Wacky Will stories and this was a good one. This is from Nate in Galesburg, Illinois. Dear Josh and Chuck and Jerry guys have been a big fan for years. I heard how Wills work. I was hoping you would mention my favorite story of Strange Will Stipulations, but you didn't, so here it is. And he included a link to Snopes because it's true. Yeah. He wasn't the only one to send this one in, too. Oh, did more than one of these come in? I think so. What I'm thinking. A Toronto lawyer named Charles Vance Miller died in 1926. So the Hefty estate left a number of strange clauses in his will, most of which are described in the link, the strangest of which came to be known as the Great Stork derby Wacky Canadians. He left a significant portion of his money investment that would turn out to be worth up to $750,000 to the woman who gave birth to the most children in Toronto in the ten years following his death. I was just going to do that. I don't know. I'm really trying to think of a reason. He was a big fan of Koita, maybe, or just trying to populate Canada, I guess. Take over the US. Once and for all. Is it Toronto? That's what he says. There were a number of interesting legal challenges highlighted in the link, such as whether or not illegitimate or deceased children counted awful, and ultimately the purse was split among six women in total, the most money going to four women with nine legitimate live births during the time frame, each of whom received 125 grand. Hope you guys have a chance to mention this uncommon and preachius equipment from Nate in Galesburg, and quickly. We also wanted to mention Chris was a marine and then later a Naval reserve officer, and they were required to have a will. So we mentioned on the battlefield type of holographic will or oral will, and apparently now you have to prove that you have a will to get into the armed services. That's the information we got from Chris. Thank you. Chris and I can't remember the name of the person who sent us an email and uttered disbelief that we failed to mention Brewster's Millions, but my apologies to that person and anyone else who thought the same thing. Yeah, we totally overlooked that. That's lesser prior. It's good to put lesser prior. And John Candy. Yeah. Got, Russell. Exactly. Do you want to say hi to Chuckers or me? You can do so by going on our Facebook page, facebook. Comstyouhdnaw. You can also tweet high to us. That's at syscast. And then you can always just send us a good oldfashioned email at stuffpodcast@houseoffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstepworks.com. To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of our homepage. The house, of course. iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on itunes. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 camry. It's ready. Are you? Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school is out, the sun shining, the daylight is longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing Poolsite, tune into the podcast series on Amazon. Music. My favorite murder from exactly right media. My favorite murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgarra and Georgia Hardstark, this true crime comedy somebody podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my Favorite Murder one week early on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | ||
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podcasts.howstuffworks.com/hsw/podcasts/sysk/2018-02-22-sysk-rosa-parks-final.mp3 | Rosa Parks: Agent of Change | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/rosa-parks-agent-of-change | Rosa Parks finishes out our Black History Month episodes in grand fashion. While most know her from that fateful day on the Montgomery city bus, she actually had a long life as an advocate, protestor and agent of change. Join us today as we celebrate one | Rosa Parks finishes out our Black History Month episodes in grand fashion. While most know her from that fateful day on the Montgomery city bus, she actually had a long life as an advocate, protestor and agent of change. Join us today as we celebrate one | Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:33:18 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2018, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=22, tm_hour=15, tm_min=33, tm_sec=18, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=53, tm_isdst=0) | 48999523 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, everybody. We've already made our big tour announcement for the year, but this is a little different because we have added a show because Denver sold out. So we've added a second show in Denver. Nice. Yeah. We're going to be there on Wednesday the 27th. We added it to show the day before, same place, gothic Theater, Englewood, Colorado. And you can go to Sysklive.com to get info and tickets for that show and all the rest of our shows, too. Chuck that's right. Boston, April 4. DC, April 5. St. Louis, May 22 and Cleveland, Ohio, May 23. Come out and see us. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetofworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W, Chuck Bryant. There's Jerry over there. So it's stuff you should know. The podcast Clean Studio version. I know it feels a little weird in here, like it's too good for us or something. You know what I mean? Yeah. Just so you folks know, Jerry Test, a couple of the editor engineers here with coming in and cleaning up the pile of spaghetti that used to flow from the back of her workstation. Nice. Not that it was Jerry's fault. And she said, Clean up my mess. Well, she clapped twice in rapid succession. They know what that means, right? The whole office. I mean, snap to it. Looks good, though. It does. But now we actually have room to put stuff, so we should put some stuff in here. I agree. It's a little bear a papa's on right there. That'd be nice. I don't know. Well, we could fit a small papa's on. Most people don't realize, but this place is lousy with Ikea lamps. I mean, everywhere. And the cheapest ones. One of them is on fire right now. Yeah, that one smoldering. Smoldering is still fire. Chuck. Speaking of fire yes. You want to know somebody who had some fire in her? More than most people realize. Yeah. Rosa Parks, who is now one of my all time heroes, because before the Rosa Parks I knew again, it was like the Harriet Hubman episode. Right? Learned about her in school. She was a great American. Respect her, revere her. Here's why she didn't give up her seat on the bus. No. Not only is that. Like. Just the tip of the iceberg. It wasn't until about the last five or so years. I think about the last four years that like a full picture of this woman and who she was and what she stood for and what drove her emerged not just to the public in general. But to historians even. Because her personal papers were basically held up in auction for years and years and years. And now that they've been donated for ten years to the Library of Congress, we're starting to get a clear picture of her. And she was even more worth revering than people knew before. Yeah. I think what the story isn't is Rosa Parks was just a quiet lady who was super tired on the bus one day. So she didn't want to get up. Her dogs were yapping. Yes. Not true. And she even makes a point in her personal paper saying, I was 42 years old. I was no more tired than I was after any day at work. But what I was tired of was being told to get up by a white bus driver to make room for a white passenger. Right. My dogs weren't barking. Right. So I think one of the reasons why she was kind of whittled down into this woman who was just tired and wasn't going to give up her seat because she shouldn't have had to in the first place, and then she was a very meek, quiet person. Also is another way that she was drawn. I think one of the reasons why she was whittled into that package was because she became an icon for the Civil Rights movement. And one of the things that the civil rights movement had to do, for better or worse, was to get the establishment, both white and black, on the side of the Civil rights movement, which was a movement of agitation. And if you agitated at the time, this is the Jim Crow era that meant trouble. This wasn't like just trouble. Like people are going to yell at you on Twitter. This was trouble. Like the cops might arrest you for some made up infraction and then beat and rape you on the way to the jail, and then you would end up in the prison system kind of trouble. This is the kind of trouble that a woman who refused to give up her seat on the bus faced at this time. So the idea of taking a woman who was, I guess, palatable to as many people as possible right. And saying, look at this woman. We need to protect this woman's rights and do what's right, I think that's why she got kind of whittled down into that. But looking back now, historically, there's so much more to it than just that. And she was certainly not meek and mild. Yeah. I mean, distilling the story down for school books is one thing, but I'm glad now that people can get a more robust picture. Yeah. So a lot of this comes from a website called Greatblack Heroes.com. Had a really good lengthy article. And then also I want to shout out a book series called Little People, Big Dreams. And it's a kids book series that we've been reading to my daughter. In fact, it's kind of all she wants to read right now, and they are on great women in history and kind of brutally honest to be reading to kids. But it's kind of cool. They didn't whitewash anything. It's sort of like Maya Angelo was not treated well by white people. Like, you read that to your kid. And Rosa Parks is one. And then there's Frida Kahlo, Coco Chanel, Amelia Earhart, Mary Curie, Agatha Christie and more. But it's pretty brutal. Like, they draw Amelia Earhart skeleton on the beach kind of brutal. You know what? That's the only one we haven't gotten to yet, because every night it's read free to read freedom, really. But it's literally like Frida Kahlo is lying in the street after she gets hit by a taxi, and she's bloody, and her legs don't work again after that. So, I mean, it's pretty brutal stuff, but I don't know, it's kind of cool. Like, kids can read the stuff and digest it, I think. Sure. It's a good way to begin them on the path toward true stories and to sharpen them to, like, a razor's edge at a young age. Look out for taxis. Yeah, that's good. That's good advice at any age. All right, so Rosa Parks, let's go back to where she was born in Tuskegee, Alabama, on February 4, 1913. While she was born Rosa Louise Macaulay to James and Lenora Macaulay, who were a carpenter and schoolteacher respectively. Right. Her parents split. I don't know how old she was. I guess she was younger than six. But her father went to go look for work up north, and her mom wanted to stay in the south, so she and her mom and her brother moved in with her mother's parents. Her grandparents and her grandfather played a really distinct role in shaping her because she moved in with them when she was, like I said, around six. And at the time in this place, Pine Level, which is outside of Montgomery, Alabama, there's a lot of clan violence, a lot of violence against blacks in the hands of the Ku Klux Klan. And her grandfather was not having it. He was the son of a slave woman and slave owner. So he was, I believe, half white. He was a slave himself. He had an owner at a young age who really brutally mistreated him, tried to starve them for a little bit. And her grandfather developed what she called a very intense, passionate hatred for white people. And definitely in part of that, too, his daughters and his granddaughter grandchildren, wouldn't let his grandchildren play with white kids, didn't let his daughters work for white families. He was very much, and it sounds like, pretty well founded against white people. And definitely some of that rubbed off on Rosa. At the very least, her eyes were opened to just how unjust the system was at the time when she was growing up. Well, yeah, and it wasn't even just through his eyes. Like, she went to a segregated school that she had to walk to. White students were picked up and bust to the school. She went to an elementary school called the Montgomery Industrial School for Girls, a very cool school that was created by some Northern white Northerners to basically try and foster education in these more rural black communities in the south, and that didn't go over well. Educating kids. So that school was burned down twice. And then coupled that with all the influence from her grandfather. And it's no surprise that Rosa Parks, from a very early age, was an activist. Yeah. And being an activist, we're talking from age six onward. Right. So she dropped out of school, which would have been a huge turning point. She had to take care of her grandmother, and then, I think, her mom later on because they both fell ill, and she met, I think, at age 17 or 18, and then later on, at age 19, married her husband, Raymond Park, and he encouraged her to go back and finish school. And she did. It was a huge move because she was very much meant to be an educated person. Yeah. So the fact that she met Raymond was a huge influence in that respect. He was also a big influence on her because she said that he was the first real activist that she ever met. And I believe this was even before the NAACP was in town. This guy was like a grassroots activist, and he and his group were basically armed. Do you remember in the Black Panthers episode where the whole idea of arming yourself came out of the south? This guy was like raymond Parks was one of the real deal people who originated that. And the group of activists that he met with, they would all come to the house and everyone would have a gun. And apparently Rosa Park said sometimes there were so many guns on the table that she didn't have any place to set the refreshments during these meetings. But these meetings weren't like, how are we going to get white people back? It was, how are we going to protect, like, the Scottsboro Boys from false rape accusations? He was an early pre NAACP activist in Montgomery. Yeah. And later on was a member of the Naaacp. We should do a show on the Scottsboro Boys at some point. Too much to get into here, but the short version is a group of black men on a train were accused of rape by two white women who just made up this story, basically went to trial a few times, and well, you know what? We'll save the outcome, okay? Because there are all kinds of outcomes because it went to trial so many times. So she did finish high school, and she became involved, along with her husband in the Montgomery chapter, the NAACP, and worked as their secretary for 14 years. So not only was she an activist, but she was involved in service of these organizations. She worked for them. Whatever you need done, I will do. And anyone who's ever volunteered knows that. I guess foot soldiers, for lack of a better term, are some of the most important people. Like in the Black Panthers episode, when the women didn't get nearly the recognition they should have gotten for just keeping that organization running on time. But she was more than a volunteer, though. She had some really some jobs with some real gravity. Like she was an investigator of sexual assault of black women by white men, which is a very dangerous thing to do because you're going to interview witnesses to crimes that aren't being prosecuted because they are perpetrated by white people. She was a justice for prisoner advocate. She did a lot of really important stuff. And as she was doing this stuff as the secretary for the local NAACP, she was also making contacts that would later become really important in this nascent civil rights movement that largely grew out of the Montgomery bus boycott we're going to talk about. I had no idea how big of an event it was. I knew it was big, but I didn't realize how far reaching the effects of it were. Yeah. And another kind of important thing happened to her as far as integration goes is she got a job, type job at Maxwell Air Force Base for a little while, which, because it was a federal institution, was integrated. And this was the first time she had worked in a basically been in a professional integrated atmosphere. And that along with the Highlander Folk School, which is maybe we should do a show on that, too. In 1955, she went to a meeting, a workshop at the Highlander Folk School. And this is in the hills of Tennessee, and it is still open today as the Highlander Research and Education Center. Not in that original building, but it was just this great folk school where they prepared kids for activism workers, tried to get people involved in civil rights. And she actually got sponsored by the white couple that she worked for to go to these meetings in Montego, Tennessee. Maxwell Air Force Base. You mentioned. One of the things she later said, I think they found in her papers was a description of, like because it was an integrated base, the bus service on base was integrated as well. So she would be riding next to a white friend on the bus on base. And then once they would get off of the bus on base and get onto a city bus, they would have to stop their conversation and get into the different sections, the white section and the colored section. And that was just the reality of it. And one thing that has really come through from her papers is that she made a conscious decision to never normalize that, to not be like, well, that's just how it is. That's just life. That she would never let herself do that. Instead, it was, this is messed up, this has to be changed. She was able to get through her day with this knowledge, but she was never like, this is normal, or this is okay. Yeah, she said it required, I think the quote was a lot of mental gymnastics just to survive day to day as a black person in America. So, in other words, not accept it and do everything I can to wrap my head around what I can do moving forward. Right. Should we take a break? Yeah, man. I think so. Alright, take a break and we'll come back and we will start on December 1 955. Very important day. All right, so it's December 1, 1955. Rosa Parks is working as a seamstress at the time at a department store. She gets off work like she does every day and boards bus 28, 57 Cleveland Avenue bus at about 06:00. And here's the deal with the buses at the time is there were a certain amount of rows set aside for white people. And then there was a sign that said black people, or they probably said colored people back then can sit from here back, but that sign could move. So as more white people get on the bus, the bus driver gets up and moves that sign back and says, all right, black folks, you got to get up, get out of your seats, because now the white section is here. And just keep doing that until ostensibly the entire bus could be full of white people. And they just say, sorry, I'll have to get off. Right? Yeah. You either had to get up and move your seat. If there were not seats left, you had to stand. If there was no standing room, you had to get off the bus. Right. And then if the bus you were getting on, if you were African American, if the white section was already full, you had to get into the front of the bus, pay, get off of the bus and get onto that back door. You couldn't even walk through the white section. Right. And then you could take your seat in the colored section. So there was a lot going on here. At least half of this law was unwritten custom. Right, right. The local ordinance in Montgomery, Alabama said that busses had to be segregated. There was a white section and there was a colored section. They put it right. All that stuff about moving the sign, about getting up and having to leave the bus if there wasn't any standing room for you, if more white people came on. Yeah. All of that was just customary. That was not law, that was not the local ordinance, but it was so practiced on a daily basis that it might as well have been the law for sure. And that's really all that matters is if everyone was playing ball, that's what was going to happen. Yeah. Because the courts would even prosecute as if you had broken the law, if you had not actually broken the law, but had broken this custom. So, yeah, for all intents and purposes, it was the law. So the driver of that bus was one James Blake. And Rosa had well, she had a long memory and a previous incident with Mr. Blake. Twelve years previous, 1943, she had paid her fare, and like you were talking about with the fact that they couldn't even walk through the white section, he said, you got to get off the bus, go around to the back, forced her. Well, she had already gotten on and said, no, you got to re enter on the rear. She got out, and he was like, Psych. Closed the door and drove off with her bus fare, right? Yes, she had already paid. That was the 1943 incident. And she remembered twelve years later who James Blake was. I would probably not forget that bus driver. So on this day, she got on and she took her seat in the colored section. And when she sat down again, she was behind the sign. And I guess after a couple of stops and think about this, man, imagine riding the bus. Say you have like, seven stops. Think about that pit that would be in your stomach on a daily basis. Like, am I going to have to get up? Am I going to have to be humiliated? Am I going to have to give up my seat to a white person? Because even if somebody who was told that they had to get up because a white person needed to sit there, even if they just kind of quietly complied, that doesn't get the point across how they were feeling right then. Anybody would be humiliated by that. And I read that one of the reasons why buses, not just in Montgomery, but throughout the segregated south, they were kind of flashpoints because people were in such close quarters, the racism was right up in your face in front of a bunch of other people. So the humiliation was even more pronounced. Right. So Rosa Parks gets on the bus. She takes her seat in the colored section, and after a few stops, some white people got on. And the driver, James Blake, said that it was time for them to move, that these white people needed a seat, and he was moving the sign back at least one row. Yeah. So at this point, there's one white dude left without a seat. So, as is custom, he made four black folks get out of their two seats on that row. Everyone had to move back because there had to be a whole new white road just for this one guy. Three of the passengers got up and moved. Rosa Parks just slid over to the window seat and sat there. And he said, Are you going to get up? And she said, no, I'm not. He said, well, if you don't stand up, I'm going to have to call the police and have you arrested. And she said, you may do that. Awesome. I know, man. I mean, just so brave. And so the police did come. She was arrested. She was booked, charged with disorderly conduct, and bailed out by Clifford Der and Edgar Nixon, who were the local president of the chapter of the NAACP at the time. Right. So she's out, at least temporarily. Yeah, the next evening. So she spent the night in jail. I didn't run across any statements or any kind of evidence that she was physically mistreated or verbally abused by the police, but that seems to be unusual for people who were arrested for not giving up their seats on the bus. What did she was not mistreated. Right. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure they didn't throw out the welcome yet. No, but actually, this is noteworthy here. Do you want to talk about how she was not the first person that year, not the first woman to have been arrested for not giving up her seat on the bus? Yeah, sure. This is something I didn't realize, and I think a lot of people didn't realize this, but there were at least two other women in Montgomery who were arrested that same year. One was Claudette COVID. She was 15 at the time. When she pregnant, too. She got pregnant afterward. Okay. But she was 15, and she, in March, was arrested for not giving up her seat on the bus. She said at the time she was scared to death, but she felt on one side, Junior Truth is holding her down, and on the other side, Harriet Tubman was holding her down, and she was not about to get up. So they took her off the bus and arrested her. And apparently she was ridiculed and treated rather roughly. There was another woman. Her name was Mary Louise Smith. I believe she was 18 at the time. She had been arrested, like, in October for the same thing. I didn't get the impression that she was necessarily treated roughly. Yeah, but Rosa Parks, when she was arrested, from what I can tell, she was treated, like, with the respect that would be afforded to a middle class black woman at the time in Montgomery, Alabama, which is to say, with maybe the slightest measure of respect, which is to say she wasn't beaten on the way to jail. There's a book, by the way, called Claudette COVID colin Twice toward justice from Phil, whose and I think a lot of people these days are trying to shine a little light on some of the lesser known figures of the civil rights movement, and books are being written and stuff like that, which is pretty awesome. And she was asked claudette COVID was asked, like, why does she think it was Rosa Parks and not her? And she had a whole list of reasons, and all of them are pretty legitimate, that Rosa Parks was, again, a palatable person to a large swath of people. And more to the point, she was also 15, and the NAACP didn't think that a 15 year old was going to be the most reliable icon to kind of project into the national forefront. Yeah. Not to say that a lot of people have said over the years that it was staged. So because they set Rosa Parks up or not set her up, but they picked her to do this because she was palatable, they staged this whole thing to make which would have been fine if that's the way you want to kick start the bus boycott. But from all accounts, it was an in the moment decision. She said, I didn't know that I was going to get arrested and I was going to sit down. It's just something that happened. And so, on the one hand, the people who say that, no, this is staged, the NAACP, and even before the NAACP was around, buses had been like a target of black activists, in Montgomery in particular for decades. I think the first bus boycott was in 1900. And it wasn't even a bus. It was a trolley line. As well as boycotted. Having already been the secretary of the NAACP and an activist herself for years, by then she must have been fully aware of the potential outcome, which proved to be the actual outcome from her arrest for not giving up her seat. But the idea of saying that this was all staged, it does a couple of things. It's almost like a casually racist way of just kind of diminishing it, because it does two things. One, it takes away her bravery, because if it was staged to make her own decision to support the whole time, it would have taken away a measure of fear. And then secondly, it also makes the NAACP look kind of sneaky, like there's socially engineering stuff and then pretending like that's not the case. So I think by saying, like, no, this was staged, it really undermines the reality of the situation, which is that this brave woman said she'd had enough. Yeah. And you're right. It probably occurred to her, the ramifications of this. But surely I bet you anything in the moment, she was just like, Nope, nope. Not getting up. That's what I understand. That's what she's always said. Yeah. So here's what happened from there. She was arrested. Like I said, she gets out on bail over that weekend. A bunch of churches got together, and they started talking boycott on the winter trial comes around. There's a group called the Women's Political Council, and they handed out 350 handbills that basically said, please, children, grown ups don't ride the bus at all on Monday. Please stay off the buses on Monday. Let's really try and make a difference here, because I think at the time, black people made up 75% of the passengers. Yeah. So it could have a real impact on the finances of the bus company. Yeah. And it just started out as a boycott for one day, for the Monday following Rosa Parks rest, which happened on a Thursday. And they were just going to do it for one day. But the success of it was so surprising, I think they were hoping for, like, 50% reduction. It turned out I saw both 90 and 99% reduction in ridership by African Americans that day. Right. And if they make up 75%, that's a big loss for the city bus line. Right, for sure. So it was such a success that they said, well, maybe let's keep this going and see what we can do with this. Because initially, the demands of the Montgomery bus boycott of one of them was black riders be treated with courtesy, pretty low hanging request. Another one was that the seats be given on a first come, first serve basis, which was the law, and that black people sit from back to front, white people sit from front to back. So they were still saying, like, we can keep the segregation, but people shouldn't have to give up their seats. Right. And then the last one was they wanted black bus drivers to be hired to drive the predominantly African American routes, right. So that you didn't have to deal with an armed yeah, an armed white bus driver, because they were armed. And they had basically police powers to enforce segregation on the bus. So the original boycott thing, their demands were not extraordinarily radical. And when the boycott was a success on that first Monday, they decided to extend it. And they also decided maybe they should expand their demands a little more. So while all this is going on, she was found guilty on that Monday. She was fine $10 plus court costs of $4 for $14 total and said, no, I'm going to appeal this conviction. She challenged basically what she was challenging was segregation in general not being constitutional. Right? And that ended up being the argument that was, well, we'll get to the court case and how it escalated, but she was found guilty. And the other notable thing that happened was one Ralph David Abernathy and Dr. Martin Luther King, who was a young minister in town of Dexter Avenue Baptist, he was elected president of what was called the Mia, the Montgomery Improvement Association, which they formed because of the success of the boycott. So you have this new organization. Then about a month later, a month and a half at the end of January, martin Luther King's home was bombed. Everyone was unharmed in the incident, but it really ramped up the stakes of what was going on. Yeah, well, for sure. And apparently the Montgomery Improvement Association is credited with making the boycott successful. And the way that they made it successful was through a carpool they set up. They bought a bunch of station wagons and put them in the name of some of the black churches in town. And these station wagons would basically recreate the bus routes. They drove predetermined routes, and they were giving, like, 200 people a ride every day. That's how successful this. Was. And they put such a crimp in the finances of the city bus line that a couple of things happened. One, they had to lay off workers, close down lines, raise their fares. It really hurt the city bus lines. And then, secondly, the city and I believe maybe even the state, sued the Montgomery Improvement Association for this boycott, which is apparently illegal under a 1921 Alabama law. Yeah, they sued against the car service, specifically saying that the bus company had an exclusive franchise. Right. And they did get an injunction in November of 1956. But all of this comes out of the fact that, like, 30 something years earlier, in 119 thousand, 21, Alabama passed an anti boycott act which basically said it's illegal for you to not ride the bus. In this case. In that case, sure. Or at least organize people and get them to not ride the bus. It was something like it was a misdemeanor to organize against somebody carrying out lawful business or whatever. So they were getting them on two things, the boycott and then infringing on the bus lines franchise in that city. Right, right. So what do you do if you are suing or I'm sorry, if you have an anti boycott act, you can't arrest everyone. So they go after, I think, 89 Martin Luther King Jr. And 89 other members of the Mia. And obviously, because how many of them, 24 of them are ministers, they're the most prominent members. And he was fined $500 and spent a couple of weeks in jail. Yeah. So he's very proud of his crime. He should be. Yeah, sure. So now Martin Luther King is appealing so we've got a few things going on here. You've got Rosa Parks, who has been convicted and now is appealing her $10 plus $4 in court costs fine for breaking the city ordinance, even though she didn't. You've got Martin Luther King now who is appealing his $500 fine for the boycott and the infringing on the bus lines franchise. And then you have something else. You have a class action suit called Browder versus Gail and was named after oh, what's her name, the woman who's the lead plaintiff in the case. Her name is Arelia s Browder. And the Gale in the case was the Montgomery mayor, I think. William Gale. And we'll just take a break and we'll talk about this case, and we'll come back to the drumbeat of the court system starting to kick in. All right, so appeals run slow anyway, but in the south, if it's a case like this, it's going to go super slow because the hope from the white establishment is maybe enough time will go by, and these people just sort of get in line and forget about it, get tired of this boycott, and everything will just go back to normal. Yeah. Which is kind of a gamble because this boycott was not showing any signs of cracking, so they were basically making that bet on the back of the city bus line and on the jobs of the drivers who are being laid off because ridership was down so low. 381 days. 381 days, right. For the boycott. So, like I said, the drumbeat of the court system was starting to grow a little bit louder. And you had three big cases. Martin Luther King's case. Rosa Park's case. And you had Browder versus gayle. And Browder versus Gayle represented four women. Originally five, but four women who had been convicted of breaking the law for not giving up their seat on the bus in Montgomery. One of them was Claudette COVID. Another was Mary Louise Smith, I believe. And then Aurelia Browder. And then, lastly, was Susie McDonald. Susie McDonald, right. So these four women got together and sued the mayor, the bus line, a few bus drivers, the city public works commission, just a big group of people, and they were suing. All three of those cases were suing. The question, the constitutionality and the legality of segregation in general, but specifically on the bus lines. And there was a talk at first by Freddie Gray, who was the lead lawyer in Browder vigil, of including Rosa Parks. But he very wisely kept her separate from that case because he said he wanted the court to just consider one thing, not whether Rosa Parks was guilty or not, but whether the segregation on the Montgomery buses was legal and constitutional. So he kept those separate. Very smartly. Yeah. I think he knew that he could get this to the supreme court this way. It was a test case. And that was his ultimate goal. Sure. Because it was a state statute, though, in the state constitution of Alabama. It was, of course, first brought before district court three judges in US. District court on June 5, 1956. They ruled two to one that segregation was unconstitutional. Of course, they cited Brown versus board of Education as precedent, and it eventually wound its way to the supreme Court in 1056 on December 17, actually. That was pretty quick. Yeah. Considering yeah. And they rejected all appeals and voted nine to nothing. Nine to zero that it was unconstitutional. Yeah. Nine to nothing. That's really saying something. Unanimous supreme court decision regarding segregation. Yeah. In the 1950s. Yeah. That was huge. I think Dr. King was in court that day when he was told by a reporter about that decision, the supreme Court decision, and even after he said, we're keeping up the boycott because when they implement this desegregation on the buses, we'll stop the boycott. Right. And after the supreme Court ruling came through, the city of Montgomery saw pretty clearly that there wasn't any way to keep this up any longer. And I believe within three days, the buses were desegregated. And on the first day that they were desegregated, rosa Parks took her seat on a bus in the front row, I believe. Yeah. They hired black bus drivers. And this is after, by the way, 381 days of a total sales loss of 65%. Yeah. And on the other side, Ralph David Abernathy's home was bombed. Martin Luther King's home was bombed. People were in jail. People were in court. It was a big struggle down in Montgomery. Yeah. So on December 21, doctor King and his white friend Reverend Glenn Smiley sat together on the front row with Ralph David Avernathy Street here in Atlanta. Name for him, ed Dixon and Fred Gray, the attorney that saw that case. Right. So that was a huge thing. They did a number of things. It made Rosa Parks an icon. It projected Martin Luther King into the national spotlight. That was basically where he first found national fame and basically was like, well, this guy is the leader of the civil rights movement now. And it also was a huge domino in the idea of desegregation in general. Not just on buses. Not just in Montgomery. But the concept it followed in the wake of Plessy v. Ferguson. Which was just one of those court cases that said separate facilities is inherently racist. Because the only reason you would have separate facilities is because you think one group is superior over the other. And they shouldn't have to consort or mix. Right. That's inherently unconstitutional. And this is one of those dominoes that fell in that chain that led to desegregation across the Jim Crow South. And like a laser, this particular case and the changes it brought were focused right onto Rosa Parks. Her act, her courage, what she did. Yeah. And this was within our parents lifetime. I know. I was wondering, I was like, why am I so much more jazzed about this than Harry Tubman? I love Harriet Tubman's story, but I remember when I was researching, I wasn't nearly as jazz, and I realized, I can relate to this woman so much better just because this is pretty recent. Well, yeah. And just the notion that where we are as a country now, racially, this was not that long ago. So for the people in the camp of saying, just get over things, african Americans, just get over things, this was not hundreds and hundreds of years ago. Right. This was very recently. My peers parents had to live through this. Well, one thing Rosa Parks is now known for what they didn't realize before is her act in the civil rights movement that grew out of the next ten years, 15 years. There's this idea that around 1970, there was a button put on that, and it was like, you guys were successful. Way to go. We can stop doing this now. Rosa Parks was like, no, it's not done. This hasn't changed. Up until she died in 2005, she was like, the struggle is still continuing. Yeah. People didn't realize that about her until this collection was opened. Yeah. There was significant cost to her family, to her her husband her and her husband both suffered through stomach ulcers because of this. They lost their jobs. Eventually, they left Alabama, said, let's go to Virginia, and Virginia wasn't a whole lot better. He said, all right, let's go to Detroit. Kept going north. And then finally, after not having a job for a long time, she was hired as secretary for John conyers brand new, brand newly elected black congressman, who she would work for for 23 years. And Mr. Conyers, he was the one who stepped down last year after sexual assault allegations, after serving many years in congress, and was a civil rights icon. So it's kind of a very sad ending to that story. But Rosa worked for him. In 77, her husband James died of cancer. Her brother died of cancer three months later. Her mom died two years after that. But I get the sense that after that, it really kind of freed her to really go back to work and devote herself once again to the cause, because after those family members passed away, she established the Rosa parks scholarship foundation and the rosa and Raymond park institute for self development and wrote two memoirs. She was busy. She was. And then, very sadly I know I remember this in 1994 when she was home invaded and robbed, hit over the head by a guy named Joseph skipper. Yeah, man, that was just like, are you kidding me with that? For $58 of all the houses to accidentally break into? Yeah. What do you think you knew it was Rosa park? I don't know. I've seen nothing to indicate that that was true. He knew that he would go down as the man who robbed and beat Rosa parks. I don't think she was targeted because she was Rosa parks or anything like that. I think she's just a little old lady. The impression I have is it doesn't matter if she was Rosa parks or not. Sure. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So that was 94, you said. And then right afterward, there was a huge national outcry, and she moved into, like, a very secure high rise in Detroit, where she lived until she died in 2005, I believe she died in that apartment 92 years young. And she had a slew of honors, unprecedented honors in this country. She was transported her body to Washington, DC. And she laid an honor under the rotunda, the US. Capital first woman to get that honor, the second African American and the first non government American ever to have this honor. That is a high honor. When she died, every flag on public land in the United States and around the world was flown at half mast, which is pretty great, too. Yeah. George w. Bush made sure that happened. And then here's just some of her lifetime achievement awards. NAACP gave her what's called the spin guard medal in 1979, their highest honor. She's in the Michigan woman's hall of fame. Martin Luther King Jr. Award. You could have just stopped at the Michigan Hall of Fame. Michigan Women's Hall of Fame. Yeah. The Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1096. Congressional goal. Michigan Women's Hall of Fame. Congressional Gold Medal. No. Now we're in the contest. Time magazine named her as one of the 20 most influential iconic figures of the 20th century. It's a big one. Okay. And then you mentioned George W. Bush ordered half mast flags in 2005. So again, there was this idea that she was just a tired little old lady who was quietly brave and didn't give up her seat, and she was kind of meek and quiet. And in 2014, her personal collection, the Rosa Parks collection, was sold to the Howard Buffett Foundation. Warren Buffett's son. They bought it for a song at, like, four and a half million dollars. And it's something like, I think, 6500 documents and 2500 photographs. And it is her personal papers, like notes for speeches, notes for her books, I believe correspondence. And it paints this picture that no one had of her before, which was no. This lady was an activist who went through her whole life. She was an activist who wanted to talk about and agitate for the rights of black Americans and how messed up the situation was that they lived in and that she wouldn't normalize this. She would learn to deal with it as much as she needed to while she was working to change it. And it was a surprise to a lot of people when they cracked open these papers and found that picture of her. Yeah. Also want to shout out article how history got the Rosa Parks story wrong. And this was written by the same person who wrote the award winning book, the Rebellious Life of Mrs. Rosa Parks. Her name is Jean Theo Harris. All one word. Yeah. I know it sounds like it should be hyphenated. It's really easy to say, but how do you say it? I have no idea. I know, but she's professor of polysai at Brooklyn College of C-U-N-Y man. Great lady. Yes. So if you want to know more about Rosa Parks, go out on the Internet. Educate yourself. I still haven't seen that movie. Have you seen that? No. About the bus boycott? No. I mean, it was a significant event. I had no idea. Okay, well, I think I said go search stuff in there somewhere, so it means it's time for listening or mail. I'm going to call this oh, tiny things. All right. Hey, guys. Let me start off by saying enjoy the podcast very much. Fine. Aside from being interesting and entertaining, it very much helps find time in the car. We get that a lot. Sure. Commute helps. People would go insane if it weren't for us. Several episodes ago, I believe. Chuck mentioned that you love tiny things. I do. Josh likes things that are grossly oversized. That giant pocket watch over there. It's kind of a pain I'm wearing. It like flavor flight. He mentioned loving tiny things. There's something extraordinarily satisfying about them. I agree. Love tiny things. Would be remiss if I did not bring you to the Museum of Jurassic Technology. I love that place. I know. I've been there, too. It's in Los Angeles. They're not one, but two fantastic exhibits of tiny things. I have the needle in micro mosaics. I don't think I saw those. Did you? The tiny thing I remember was, like, the dioramas of the trailers. And I have the needle. I remember that. I don't remember the micro mosaic. I haven't been in many years, though. Yeah. I have a needle. Features delightful, whimsical miniature sculptures, actually small enough to fit into the eye of the needle. Yeah. There you go. That's a little too small for me. Okay. I like the tiny tabasco bottles that you get in. For sure. You like to feel like you're a giant, not like a god. Yeah. Got you. Exactly. I just want to be taller. The micro mosaic exhibit also requires magnifying glass to enjoy, however beautiful. This exhibit has a slightly creepy aspect to it. The tiny mosaic pieces are, in fact, bits of butterfly wings. Yeah. Did they kill the butterflies? Depends. Yeah. How do they come across those wings? Do they row? Kill? If so, that's fine. Yeah. What a job. Go out and just try and find dead butterflies. Yes. All in all, these exhibits have a wonderful field of magic. Realism Museum also features a lovely rooftop garden as well as a meditative tea room to enjoy complimentary cup of tea. Interesting. That is all, guys. Cheers from Sandra Williams. Thanks a lot for the shout out, Sandra. That is indeed a great place if you're ever in Los Angeles, everybody go check out the Museum of Jurassic Technology. Go in with your mind open, and thank us later. Yeah. Get out of Ripley's Believe It or not. We'll go to both. Sure. I say get out of Ripley's Believe It or not. Okay. Yeah. But I mean, Jack Palance, man. How do you pass that up? I don't get it. Remember, he was the host of the TV show Was It or not? Yes. My brother worked with him on City Slickers, too. Got you. And there was one story where he's kind of old at the time, where Scott is the ad is to walk him. Second ad is to walk the talent to the set from the trailer. And it was through the desert, the rocky desert, and Scott was like, look out for that wrong Mr. Palace or something like that. And one day he was just like, I don't need you to tell me how to walk Scott. Shrank. Down. I can't remember. That's exactly what he said. But I'll bet Jack Pallets felt so bad for yelling at Scott, of all people. I doubt it. You know, it's scott. He didn't delight in Scott like everyone else, does he's Jack Palance? Yeah. Well, if you want to tell us how great you think Scott is, you can tweak to us. I'm at Josh Clark and S-Y-S kpodcast. You can also check out my website, russeriesclark.com. Charlesw. Chuck Bryant is on Facebookcom@facebookcom. Charlesw Chuck Bryant. There's also facebookcom stuffyhawpage. You can send us all an email, including Jerrystuffpodcast@howstepworks.com. You can always join us at our home on the web stuffyshow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetepworks.com. Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school is out, the sun shining, the daylights longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgueref and Georgia Hardstark, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | |
41745ece-53a3-11e8-bdec-2b4a8f4c090c | Etch A Sketch! | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/etch-a-sketch | The Etch A Sketch is yet another classic toy that Josh and Chuck love and respect. Learn all about this Hall of Fame entry today. | The Etch A Sketch is yet another classic toy that Josh and Chuck love and respect. Learn all about this Hall of Fame entry today. | Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:50:32 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2019, tm_mon=3, tm_mday=28, tm_hour=13, tm_min=50, tm_sec=32, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=87, tm_isdst=0) | 37580448 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from howstuckworkscom? Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W, Chucky Bryant. And there's Jerry, the delicious just dish rolling. And this is Stuff You Should Know, the vintage nostalgia edition that went off to China and then got sold to a different company edition. So I have a rough list of classic toys we've covered. You want to hear it? Oh, lay it on me, Charles. I'm sure I've missed something, but it did help me think of some more that we should do. Slinky? Okay. Yeah. Lego? Oh, yeah, of course. Barbie? Sure. Her boyfriend GI. Joe. Yeah, that was a good one. Sorry, Ken. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I'm sorry. Did we specifically do a GI. Joe one or an action figures one? I think both. We definitely did action figures. Although maybe not. Okay, go ahead. I'll cross check that. Hot Wheels. So this is a made up list, is what you're saying. Hot Wheels, easy Bakes. I'm glad you didn't call it Hot Wheels. Easy Bake Oven. Play. Dough. Silly Putty. Do you count Boomerangs? Sure. Do you count Monopoly? Yoyos. Of course. Hula Hoops. I knew Hula Hoops is after yoyos. I just knew it. Teddy Ruxpin. We covered him in our Christmas show this year. Oh, yeah. That's a deep cut right there. And then that's all I have. But I could have sworn we did it on Frisbees, but I cannot find it. Yeah, I feel like we did Frisbees, too, because I think we talked about, like, Frolf or something at some point. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's out there and I just didn't or maybe it's under flying disc or something. That's possible. We made that joke about calling it a novelty flying disk because Frisbee used to sue everybody who calls. Anything else to Frisbee? Maybe I'll have to look, but there's probably more out there. But that's a solid twelve or 13. That's pretty good. Which leads us to Etch A Sketch. Yes, one of the top hundred toys of the century, according to I want to say not the Toy Hall of Fame. It's just in the Toy Hall of Fame. I think it's according to some snot nose kid who makes lists online. All right, this is the 100 best toys of the Century. This is the 100 best guitar solos of the man, I'd love to do a show on that. That would be pretty cool. I can't remember who named who made that list, but it's a high honor. It's a high accolade, even if we can't remember who came up with it. Like the Etcha Sketch. It's a ubiquitous toy. Everybody knows. What an etcha sketches? Unless you go to France and then they'll say, oh, you mean the Karl magic. And you might say, like, well, why would they have anything to say about the Extra Sketch in France? Turns out, buddy, the Extra Sketch is actually French in origin. Did you know that before this? I did not. I didn't either, because it seems like super American. It looks like a TV and just feels like pure Americana. So when I realized it had some French stank on it, my dreams were dashed. It smells like champagne and cheese, which is kind of pleasant. No, I didn't really care. I thought it was great. Sketch, erase and sketch. Again, the log line that will forever be tied to this really interesting little toy. And I can't remember who it is in this article, but they were interviewing different folks. I think it was someone from the company commented, and I totally agree that it's amazing that today in the digital world, in Bluetooth and WiFi and video gaming as it is, that this little lofi toy that doesn't even have batteries in it, much less hooked up to the Internet, is still, like, super popular and still has a little bit of mystique. And I agree with them. And I think the reason why one of them is like, you look at it and you're still kind of like, how does this thing work? Right? Well, we're going to ruin that mystique for everybody, because we're going to explain how it works actually in this episode. That's right. But hopefully it won't affect Echo sketch sales because we love Echo sketch. All right, should we go to France? We will go to France sometime. It's apparently not clear whether it was 1955 or 1956, but in a little town called Victory, Sir Sin, which means Victory on the Seine River, there was a company called what was the name of the company? Chuck Lincrusta Company. Right. Terrible name. It is a terrible name. But the reason they called themselves that is because Lynn Crusta is a type of wall covering that was really popular in the 19th or early 20th centuries. Have you ever been into an old, creepy, abandoned house and the walls are covered in what looks like dimpled tin with some weird patterns to it or whatever? No, but keep going. Okay, so if you could rub your hand over it's, like heavily embossed, sometimes it's painted. And just imagine that is like Wayne Scotting in the house. That is Lincrusta. And so that is one of the two things that this company made in the 50s. Link wall coverings and artificial leather that is really neither here nor there. But I was with you. I was like, what kind of a name is that for a company? I looked it up and it basically be like if you and I called our podcast Podcast, because that's what we did, was make podcasts, or called Crust podcast. Just the name Crust. Anyway, I think I know what you're talking about because we have a pie safe that has that metal tin stuff, but I've never seen it on a wall. But I bet it's about the same thing. Virtually the same thing. Yeah. Okay, so that's link cresta. And that's where this guy worked. His name was Andre Kasagnasagnas. What are you doing with well, if it's French, wouldn't it be Casa? Is that G pronounced? Yeah. I think you just nailed it, actually. Andre Cassal. Well, that's what we're going to call them. And we have gone back in time. You didn't know. 55 or 56? I say we go to 54 just to play it safe. Set up shop in France and maybe get some emails done. All right. For a couple of years. Sure, why not? We could use a break. Because podcaster burnout is a real thing. It really is. As we talk, we're dropping like flies. All right, so he's working in this factory, it's north of Paris, and they are making these wall coverings, like you're talking about. And this is a little confusing, how this actually happens. If you ask me, or at least the way the first article put it, it's confusing. Oh, you're leaving it to me, I noticed, by your policy after that. Well, I mean, no, I'll start it, but I just still don't quite get it. He marked up with pencil on a see through decal. So he was putting on an electrical plate, like a light switch, and on that plate, like many things, has like, a little see through plastic that you peel off. So he was riding on that. He peeled it off. But then that's where it loses me as to exactly what magic took place. Okay, remember, this is link crusta, and they make metal wall coverings, which means there's metal dust in the air, metal shavings everywhere. Yeah. And he's breathing that stuff in, right? All of them are. What's crazy is the guy made it to the ripe old age of 86, have been breathing that for years. There's metal dust everywhere, including on this electrical switch plate that he's installing. And I guess the decal against the plate. And I think what happened was when he marked on the decal and pulled the decal off, he'd seen that he had disturbed the metal shavings that were stuck to the underside of the decal. Do you see what I mean? Yeah, he had disturbed the shade. The whole decal is coated in a metal dust. He marks on it with a pencil, and the impression that he makes gouges out lines on the backside of the decal. I know, it's really tough. It was magic. Basically, this man witnessed a feat of magic that still cannot be explained to this day. And that's where he got his idea for the Etcha Sketch. Amazing. So a big moment. He has that literal light bulb that goes off of his not literal, of course, light bulb above his head. Although you never know, there may have been a light bulb in that factory right above his head. Why not? And he said, all right, this can be something. He, however, did not have a lot of money to sink into this weird idea. And so he had to partner with somebody with money, a man named Paul Chase Chaze, or maybe Shaws, if he's French. Oh, that's good. And this guy had some dough because he owned a plastic injection molding company. This is, like, early on. I wonder if we could count that as a toy. The little plastic machines that spit out little plastic guitars in Chicago and at Zoos. Yes, Maldorama, that would definitely count. Yeah, that goes on the list. So he didn't it wasn't moldorama, but it was plastic injection molding that this guy made his money from. And this is where things get a little confusing historically, because the man who his accountant, his name was Arthur Graljini. You are nailing the French today. Try to run French people. You can't chuck is pronouncing your words just beautifully. So his accountant is actually given credit a lot of times because he filed the patent under his name, which I'm curious about how that works legally. Do you remember the first time we did south by Southwest? And on the sign, somebody I can't remember whose name it was, but whoever had filed the application to get us into south by Southwest, it said that's who was performing in the room that day? I don't remember that at all. I think this is basically the same thing where the US. Government bureaucracy, the Patent Trademark Office basically said, whoever's name is on there, that is who is the patent holder. And since Gran Jean. Who was the accountant of Shays. Who was the partner of Casa. Since he was the one who actually filled out the application and paid for the application for the patent. As far as the government was concerned. He was the person who patented the Etch A Sketch in the United States. Even though grand jury made no claim on it whatsoever. Immediately transferred the title over to Shays. For decades, everybody thought Arthur Gran Jean was the guy who invented the Etcha Sketch. Interesting. All right, so that was July 23, 1959, was when this patent was granted. And I guess we should just look at the little guy itself, the little TV looking. That iconic red frame with the two dials, which I didn't have initially. We'll get to that. But the underside of this screen here has what's known in the patent as a pole virulent material, such as aluminum powder. Is that French as well? I don't know. And then to keep that from clumping up, there are little tiny plastic beads, and then the two knobs control again from the patent immovable tracing stylus. Although initially it was a joystick. Isn't that right? Yeah, basically like an Atari. But it serves the same purpose, and it was held together the same way through an intricate system of pulleys and gears that move the stylus either upward or downward. And then if you combine the upward and downward together, you could make diagonals and circles and stuff like that, but it's really tough to describe what's going on in an Etcha Sketch. But there's a houseworks article from years back called Inside an Etcha Sketch where the people at household works, like, took one apart and photographed it and explained it step by step, and it really becomes much simpler and ruins any bit of magic there is to it when you see Inside an Etcha Sketch, but it's still kind of wondrous. Like, the engineering you is like, wow, that's pretty cool. Yeah. It's not a negative image, I don't think, but what's going on when you're moving those knobs, there's a stylus that's actually removing like, the screen is coated with this powder. So it's actually removing powder, not adding something to the screen. Yes, exactly. And of course, if you want to get that away and start a new picture, you just shake that thing up and that recoats the screen once again with that powder. Yeah. So, like, you know how your TV screen always has tons of dust on it no matter how often you dust it? Sure. So that's because that dust is attracted electrostatically through an electrical charge to the glass. They take advantage of that same thing with the underside of the Etcha Sketch. And that aluminum dust, which sticks to everything. Like, it wants to stick to the glass because I think it's missing some electrons or something. And then when you move the stylus through it, you're just removing that dust. Like you said, it's not a negative, it's the removal of dust. And that's an Etcha Sketch at its core. And what's interesting, Chuck, is, like, that is how an Echo Sketch today works. That's how an Etcha Sketch worked in 1962. Meaning, like, also sure. But the dude, Andre Cassanya, said, this is how this is going to work, and it's basically the same thing. That's pretty awesome. Let's take a break. Yes. We're going to come back and talk about coming stateside right after this. All right? So, Chuck, how did we agree on his last name? I think I'm butchering it still, and I even took years of French in high school. I think he said Casserole. All right. Andre Casserole. That seems wrong. Yeah. I'm still going to go with Casson. Okay. There you go. Andre Casson, he knew he was onto something. Like, this guy was an electrician. He was like, this is a great idea. This is a prototype I made. This is worth something. So he and Cruz, I guess, funded a trip to the Nuremberg Toy Fair in 1059. And it was there that Cassand was walking around saying, check this thing out. It is yours for a mere $100,000. Which at the time was a lot of money. I think it was $870,000 today. And that's what this guy wanted, for the right to produce this. And every toy maker at the place said no, including a little toy maker called Ohio Art. Everybody turned it down. And Cassan went home from the toy fair empty handed. But he didn't give up. He still persisted. But that was a big strikeout for him. Right out of the gate. Yeah. So Ohio art eventually settles on a number of 25 grand for the rights to make this thing in the United States. It is still called La Cron Magic in France because they had a different licensing deal over there from the get go. And Ohio, our company, is pretty interesting. It started did you see that thing? Yeah, I did. Yeah. They started out in 19 eight founded by a man named a dentist named Dr. Henry S. Winseler in Archibald, Ohio. He gets out of dentistry because he's like, hey, man, toys is the future. Toys is the future. There's no future in teeth. In a decade, no one in America is going to have teeth. It's just a losing trade to be in his dentistry. Yeah. So he saw the way forward. He rented a musical, hired 15 women, and they were making metal picture frames at first to great success. Yeah. So they use something called metal lithography, which is a type of printing. And I think the metal refers to the medium that you're using to print with. Like, you carve a picture out of metal and you put ink on it, and then you print on whatever you want. But they were printing onto metal. They had these picture frames and pictures that were like a huge seller of a cupid. It was a pair of oval plates, basically, but they were metal printed pictures on them, like a cupid hanging out and then the same cupid sleeping. And it's just kind of like whatever. Like, these days, it seems kind of got a tinge of old timey creepiness. But in the first half of the 20th century, there were 50 million sets of those things sold in the United States, which is an astounding amount. It's basically every house in America had a pair of this. And that really kind of made Ohio art, like, a very viable business. But they eventually got into things like sand pails and little trucks and that kind of thing. Anything that was printed with metal before the time that plastic toys came along, they were into. So it wasn't a huge leap into the edges sketch, but the Echo sketch was definitely different than anything that they'd ever kind of messed around with before. Did you know I've done metal lithography? No. Yeah, it was one of our in industrial arts. It was at least at my school. Each quarter you did a different medium or whatever. And lithography was something we did one quarter. Do you remember what you printed? I'm trying to remember what I printed. It's funny I can remember that because we also one quarter was screen printing. And I remember the T shirts. I did monkeys T shirts, like the see no evil, hear no evil monkeys no, the band the Monkeys, their logo with the guitar spelled out as Monkeys, like, wow. Did you draw it yourself? No, of course not. But we did metal Sheet lithography. I don't remember all of the process, but what I do remember was it essentially was like chemically burning images onto metal plates, and then that metal plate was used to print. Okay, so the metal and Metal Lithography talks about the metal press that you're using to print with, like at the end of there may be different processes, but in my class, we would do this thing and apply this image with this gel onto a metal sheet and use this combination of chemicals that would burn that into, like, make it part of the metal. And then all of a sudden you would have a metal sheet with a thing on it, like a negative image. And then you would use that in the printing process to print a positive image. Right. And you could use it to print onto anything, including other metal. Right. Well, hey, man, that's where my knowledge and again, this was 9th grade me, so I've forgotten a lot of things over that time period. Right. And I'm sure I just butchered that, but that's my one little dance with Metal Lithography. Well, I'll tell you who would be able to tell us exactly how Metal Lithography works. It's anybody who works at Ohio Art, because not only was that their bread and butter before the Etches sketch, it still is today, actually. Ohio Art, I guess, gets in touch with Andre Cassand and either he got in touch with them again or they got in touch with him, I think it was the latter of the two, and said, hey, we heard you're selling this for 100 grand. It's way too rich for our blood. How about either 15,000 or 25,000, depending on who you ask in the future? And Cassandra is like, what are you talking about? They're like, just take the money. And so they either got it for 15,000 or 25,000, which is still substantial. I mean, it was like around one hundred k or two hundred k, something like that, depending on which one it was. And Cassandra was quite a happy man. There was a story where the guy who was running the show at Ohio Art and his wife went over to meet Andre Cassand and just kind of have an initial meeting and shake his hand and all that and buy the license from him. And Cassandra was like, welcome. It has this huge spread of baguettes and champagne and everything at his house, which is pretty cute because he was just like this humble guy who came up with a really great idea for a toy and was finally, like, selling it for a lot of cash. Interesting. What, the baguettes and champagne? Yeah, but what are you going to do when in France, right? So once he's on board with Ohio art. He gets together with their chief engineer, Jerry Burger, and says burger is like, Listen here, Frenchy, you need to drop the joystick. It's all knobs these days. And he said, what is a knob? And he was like, well, let me show you. And he introduced the idea of the same system, like you're talking about, but knobs instead of a joystick, to move that little line horizontal or vertical, or as you pointed out, if you're really talented and you can master both at once, you can actually do well. If you're really good, you can do very nice curved lines. Yeah. Beyond rudimentary. No, neither am I. I can make a line go up and a line go to the left or right. Yeah. I can't even make it go down. We'll get to the art of it maybe at the end, because there are some serious artists out there doing some cool stuff. But at any rate, etcha sketch. It was rebranded as Etcha Sketch in the United States. Ohio Arts producing them for the 1960 holiday season. And they sold about 600,000 of these that year, which is a lot. Yeah. And they sold it for a lot of money, too. They went for sale at $2.99 a piece, which is 25 64 in today's money. But, I mean, if you go by an Extra Sketch today, it's between ten and $15. So that was a lot of money, especially to sell 600,000 of these things. Especially if you were selling, like, creepy metal waste baskets with an unsettling clown painted it on it or printed on it, like, right before. This is a huge it was a good move by the people at Ohio Art to buy the license to this thing, in other words. And they say, Chuck, that it coincided really perfectly with television, so much so that they believe, like, that is one of the reasons why Jerry Burger was like, you need knobs. This thing needs to look like a TV set. Because that's what all the rage with the kids right now. Yeah. It was one of the first toys to actually do a TV commercial. And so it's 1960, and you're a child watching. First of all, your mind is blown because you're watching a television to begin with. It's just like, I can't believe this. I can't believe what's going on right now. Then a TV commercial comes on for a toy, and this toy has animation in it to where, like, they would Etch a Sketch a little rocket ship, and then that rocket ship would animate and take off. And this was like, these kids keep in mind, kids in were idiots, but they might as well have been dosed with LSD. They just kept fainting over and over again throughout the commercial because they could not believe what they were seeing. Mine's. And it's just an Etch A Sketch. Yeah, but it's genius. I love it. It is. But I think the point was that that taking advantage of the novelty of TV and also now having a way like we just tried to explain in Etcha sketch over a podcast prior to TV, if that just gets you come out during the Little Orphan Radio era, they would have had to have done the same thing. It wouldn't have landed quite as well. The fact that a kid could see this happening on their TV screen was pretty awesome. And then also to say and then you just shake it, turn it upside down and shake it and coat the glass screen again, and your drawing is gone forever. To be able to see that TV made the Etches. Get what it was for sure. It definitely ushered it into a position where it could become, like, a cultural icon of nostalgia. Yeah. I mean, they perfected it by the time they started rolling off in 1960. Prior to that, like any product like this, there was a lot of R amp D. One of the people who worked there talked about the mountain of red frames behind the factory while they were trying to get it right. And it was such a huge smash head out of the gate that, as legend has it, they were manufacturing up until noon on Christmas Eve just to get them to the West Coast in time for Christmas morning. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I mean, they really wanted those kids to have those etcha sketches. They really wanted that money. Should we take another break? Yeah. All right. We'll talk about some ways etcha sketches ebbed and flowed in popularity and pop culture over the years, right, for this, chuck, I don't know if we said it or not, but from what I've seen, more than 175,000,000 etch sketches have been sold since 1060. And we should point out we're not just, like, ticking off a list of pop culture references. Every time this happened, Etch a Sketch sales would go up. Yeah, like the Mitt Romney one increased sales, like, 30%. I guess everybody was like, oh, echo sketch. I forgot about that. I think I'll go buy one right now. Well, they actually branded after that Republican and Democrat etched sketches that, didn't they? Yeah. So you could buy a red one or a blue one, but both of them came with a sticker, which I'm assuming that they printed on their metal lithography presses of a donkey and an elephant, like playing tug of wars in the front of the White House lawn. Yes. That's just crazy. It is. But that's smart. That's how you make the money. And then, of course, in the movie Toy Story from Pixar, that was one of the characters name was Etch and had the fastest knobs in the west. And that was always a very fun character, I think, to see him drawing things out really fast to communicate. Yeah. And you said something earlier. You were talking about how despite the fact that it doesn't even have batteries. It's had the staying power for 50 something years, almost 60 years it's been around. And it's a really simple thing that the design hasn't changed. And I think even more of a testimony to the staying power of the Etch A Sketch is the fact that they have tried stuff with batteries and things that connect to your computer over the years, and nothing has managed to improve on the original Etches Sketch. Do you remember the Etch A Sketch animator? No. I couldn't quite place it either, but I went and watched an old ad. It was big in the it was basically like an Etcha Sketch, but there was nothing mechanical about it. It was digital. You're creating like a bitmap digital picture, and then you'd press like, I guess, play or something like that. And it would just kind of run it like a flipbook over and over again. So your Etches drawing came to life, but kids were like, I'd rather have the original Echo Sketch because that Sketch animator went away. And the Etcha Sketch is still available today. Yeah, I mean, there have been other variations. They had the Doodle Sketch, the Plug and Play, which this sounds like a bad idea. Plug and Play allows you to draw on the TV screen. That's just asking for trouble as a parent. Sure. And then the mobile app, which I've been playing with today. Oh, how's it going? Well, I mean, what do you think of this picture? It's not bad. It looks kind of edge and Sketchy. Yeah. So what you can do is it's kind of fun. You can upload or take a photo on your smartphone, plug it into the app, and then it will instantly etchify it. And what I've learned is that the more basic, like, a picture of your face works much better than something with a lot of stuff in the background. But it's fun, right? Yeah, I like it. I was reading reviews of the app. I didn't try it myself, like you, but it did say that if it's a basic picture, it will look way more Etches Sketchy. Yeah. So my official review is not bad. So three stars out of six? Sure. I mean, for something that downloaded in 30 seconds and was free, I'm going to give it a half a thumb up. There you go. So one of the things that has kind of kept etchesketch alive for the younger kids, I read this article about Etcha Sketch and it was right before they sold so a lot of people don't know ohio Art doesn't make Etches Sketch anymore. They sold it to a brand called Spin Master. And I didn't see that. Yeah, it's not Ohio Art. It said, we're going back to Metal Lithography. And that's what they did. So they sold Echo sketch off to Spin master. Spin masters? Like, that's fine with us, baby. Thanks for all these licenses. I mean, Echo. Sketch of Frozen Braided. Etch A Sketches. It might as well just be like a printing press for money, right? Yeah. So it was probably a pretty good buy for Spin Master in Ohio. This thing was great. It was a good run while it lasted. But they also had to oversee it through some really dark times because, well, for one thing is it landing with the millennials, I get the impression like it used to with the baby boomers. That was one thing. And Ohio art almost went bankrupt because of it. Back in 2001. They managed to get some more money back into the business and stay afloat. But part of that also was they had to send the manufacturing of the Etcha Sketch off to China, which they were really unhappy about because they lost like 35 jobs in tiny little Brian, Ohio. But eventually, like 15 years later, they said, you know what, we're getting out of the Echo Sketch business and sold it off to Spin Master, which is a weird name, but one of the things it's a little weird, ohio art is a little weird too. You don't associate Ohio with art. You just don't. I'll say it again. Tell that to Chrissy Hind. The black keys. No. Chrissy Hind gets what I'm saying for sure. So one of the things that is keeping at the sketch relevant, the reason why if you walk up to a 17 year old and say, what do you think about Etches Sketch? They say, oh yeah, I've heard of that. Because every once a while you'll see on the internet a photo or two of somebody who is really, really good at Etch A Sketch and it just kind of makes the rounds on social media. Yeah, I mean everything from the Mona Lisa to just like portraits of people to landscapes. What's really fun is you can go on YouTube and look at time lapse at the sketch renderings, which when you're seeing it done super fast like that, you kind of think like, I feel like I could do that, but you really have to be a master with those knobs. What I found is the thing you really need to master to do everything that you want to do is being able to retrace well, because as everyone knows, it's not like a pencil. You can't pick it up off the paper and start somewhere else. Right. If you want to go somewhere else, you have to retrace as closely to that original line as you can all the way back to that point that you want to be at, or else it's just going to look like something that I did. Which looks like something a toddler did. Yeah. And I mean, it's a really good point. When you're making a good etchescatch drawing, it is all one single line frequently doubled back over. And that's just a sketch artist will use like that frame. They'll create a line frame around the edges that they can travel back out to and move around the picture like that. Pretty brilliant. Yeah. There's a guy named George Vossic III who's known for some pretty amazing portraits of Mohammed Ali, Barack Obama and Bronjames. There's an artist named Janevich maybe. She calls herself Princess Etch A Sketch. She's done some amazing architectural detail with it. And then there's a guy named Ryan Burton who does erotic Simpsons art. There you go with the etches sketch. And all three of them are, like, really good at the etchesketch drawings. Yeah. The fanfic of etchesketch artists. Interesting. And then apparently, when you're very satisfied with your etchesketch and you don't want anything to happen to it, you drill a hole in the back and get the aluminum powder out, and then you lock the knobs to keep them from being turned. Then you have a natural sketch masterpiece that you can hang in a museum. Okay. So that makes it permanent. Yeah. So when a kid comes in the museum and rips it off the wall and shakes it, nothing happens. No. And I think by law, you're allowed to pick up that kid and shake it. Yes. As long as it's not a baby. Don't you know, never shake a baby. Come on. Yeah. I would never advocate shaking a baby. Everybody, I just want to go on record as saying that you know the comedian Nate Bargati? No. He's great. He's got a very funny bit about shaking baby. Yes. Believe it or not, it takes a lot to turn that into something funny. Yeah. He did it, man. Good for him. Nate Bergati, huh? Nate Bergazi, dude, you would love him. He's great. So Nate Bergazi just became a cultural icon because we did not see him coming up in this episode. That's right. Well, if you want to know more about Nate Bergati, you should go check him out on the Internet, like I'm going to. And since I said Nate Bergati, it's time for listener mail, man. Someone tells Nate we're plugging them. Plugging away. Plugging Nate. All right, here. This is about Jerry and her eating. And this is from Kim Cooper. Did you see this? Jerry? She says no. Hey, guys, I noticed that you often mentioned what Jerry is eating a lot during the podcast. I don't know how close she is to your microphones, but I'll go ahead and say that from your side over there. She's about 5ft. All I have to do is lean in my seat a little bit, and I can touch Jerry's miso soup. That's right. You could dip your thumb in her soup. And sometimes I threatened to. I don't know how close she is to your microphones, but I never hear her eating, which is good for your fans with misophonia. But I'm curious why she chooses this time to eat. Do you guys spend all day podcasting? That's the only time she can fit it in. No. Silly question. That popped into my head listening to this week after Josh said, and there's Jerry eating God knows what. Anyway, guys, she's got me interested in trying me. So I tell her she's doing a great job because I don't know, because I know she doesn't get too many shout outs. And Josh and Chuck, you guys are pretty great too. That is from Kim Cooper. Thanks, Kim. That's funny. She went all the way around to just basically say I guess what I'm trying to say is I've always wanted to try miso. Yeah, pretty much. Well, go try some miso, Kim. You can buy it at any grocery store. Just go get a tub of it, get a big old spoon, try your first spoonful and go from there. Do you ever eat just miso paste? No. Good. If you're craving something salty and savory and, umami, let's just say it's good. You can't eat very much. But I'm just teasing. Kim. Like a spoonful is a lot of miso paste, okay? What do you just add that to? Is it an ingredient? Yeah, for like, soup, miso soup, stuff like that. Yeah, but you can just eat the pace, okay, and live to tell about it. I'm proof. Well, if you want to get in touch with us to talk about Jerry, we're always fine with that. You can go to Stephyturno.com, find out all of our social links, and you can always send us an email attention to everybody. We have a new email address. WA. It is stuffpoadcast@iheartpodcastnetwork.com. How about that? For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseworks.com. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon Music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcast. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. 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d66a859a-3b0d-11eb-aa42-533188d79988 | What is biophilic design? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/what-is-biophilic-design | Biophilic design is all about bringing the outside in. But it's also much more than that. Open your windows and have a listen! | Biophilic design is all about bringing the outside in. But it's also much more than that. Open your windows and have a listen! | Tue, 23 Mar 2021 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2021, tm_mon=3, tm_mday=23, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=82, tm_isdst=0) | 48306963 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there. And you put the two of us together, put a lid on the jar, maybe poke some holes in the top for air. Put a blade of grass in there. Yes. Maybe some cotton balls. Yes. Cotton balls. With what did they use to knock things out with cotton balls? I don't know. Formaldehyde? Sure. And you've got stuff you should know. I'm thinking of that scene from Et. He brings the frogs back to life. Yes. He liberates the frogs, right? Yeah. And I think he kisses a girl because Et watching, like, a soap opera or an old romance movie, I can't remember. But it's great. It is a good movie. I saw it not too long ago, and I'm like, wow, this is really good. The whole free range kids thing, man, those were the days. Yes. We're on the border of showing that to my daughter, who's, like, five and a half, and Emily's like, you think she's ready for Et. I said, well, when do we want her to see the saddest movie ever? That's kind of the question. It's just rather heartbreaking. Yes. You should show her, Et. The first few minutes of Bambi, the first 20 minutes of up, just all right. All one after each other and some horrible marathon, actually. Oh, she can handle the first part of up. She can handle Et. I'll bet I can't handle it. I know, that's what I'm saying. I think the older you get, the harder it is, you know? Agreed. So I got a little update on something, by the way. Okay, let's hear it. And I posted this to the Stuff You Should Know army page as breaking news yesterday, but I figured the world at large should know that as of yesterday, my friend, I am no longer a squatter. Oh, congratulations. Wow. It's over. Wow. The long national nightmare has come due to now. Yes. I walked a check up to my county of residence and buzzed a lady. She came down to the lobby and picked it up. Right. Are you sure it was the lady who needed it? Well, no, but she was going to give it to the person who did need it, but they're just not allowing people in the county buildings. But that was it. It's done. I mean, all this came from the squatting started in the squatting episode, which was, like, ten years old, at least. Where you talk about it. We've been in this house for 15 years. Yeah. And you had, like, a little plot of land that you had been using, and as we demonstrated in the episode, you technically had some sort of weird legal claim to it. Now, Chuck, I mean, I think I remember saying, like, it's not entirely clear that that technique even works. It's just if there is a legal right. Yeah. If there is a legal technique that might work, it's that. And you proved it right. Man, that's some serious long term dedication to that episode. Well, just slight correction. I didn't get it through squatter's rights, though. That really had nothing to do with it. Oh, what did it have to do with? It had to do with county red tape and mumbo jumbo and some back taxes, and it probably took five years from the point where we engaged a real estate lawyer. Help us out with it. That's how long it took to cut through that red tape. Wow, that's a lot of red tape. When you bring a lawyer in to get a piece of lane you're squatting on, there's a lot of red tape around it. Yes. But the lawyer, it wasn't, like, a ton of work, so that didn't cost that much money in the back taxes, was not that much money. So it wasn't like, a very expensive affair. But we got it in the nick of time, too, because I just found out that Georgia Power is they're bearing power lines in our neighborhood, and they had contacted the county about that piece of land to put a bunch of equipment on last week. Wow, that is great time. Yeah. Amazing. So no longer a squatter? Well, everything's coming up chuck today it is no longer a squatter, and as of coming up very soon, but by the time this comes out, you will be half a century old as well. Oh, yeah. Happy birthday, Chuck. Thank you. Man, the March crazy. Yeah. The big 50 that only comes once, twice, three times in a person's life. Yeah. 40 was kind of like, all right, middle age. But 50 is like, oh, boy, I'm going downhill. How does it feel? I mean, I don't really care. I'm the same person, but it's definitely a number to be reckoned with some ways, mentally. I'll ask you in a few years and we'll see what you say. Okay, that's fine. I should probably just fill in the joke grave that I dug for you in that squatted land as a surprise for your birthday. Now that oh, boy. Now that you say that, I didn't realize you were having any kind of struggle with 50, but no, I'm not. It's fine. When you see it on paper, it's like, oh, boy. Okay. Who's that? Well, that's good, because I really didn't feel like going to the trouble of filling it back in. And when I say, see it on paper, I've been writing the number 50 everywhere. Right. Well, I'm glad we had all these talks because it turns out that our episode on biophilic design could have been a little thin otherwise. Chuck yeah, I mean, it's not the most robust episode, but it kind of fell between shorty and full length, I think. Yeah, we'll make some hay out of it, and it's actually one of those things like we touched on it a little bit in our How Environmental Psychology Works episode from October of 2019 not too long ago, because they definitely tied together. But biophilic design is certainly its own thing. And if you've been to a restaurant or a hotel or something prepandemic, I should say, and you saw that they have, like, some vines growing on a wall or some succulents growing on a wall, or there's a lot more natural lighting than there used to be or anything like that, you have been in an area where there is some biophilic design going on. Exactly. And we should point out that a lot of this material comes from a gentleman. I mean, there are a handful of people that sort of helped pioneer this idea, and one of them is Stephen R. Kellert, who is very much a revered professor at Yale of Social Ecology at the Yale School of Forestry, which I didn't even know existed. At Yale. Yeah. Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies. And I'm trying to see I think he just passed away a few years ago, but November 27. I'm not sure of the year, though. Yeah, that's what I was looking for. He was definitely one of the champions of biophilic design. Yeah. So I think I get the impression that he was one of the ones who really tried to connect science to that type of design because it is extremely trendy right now, like I was saying. But there's a real push toward backing up the assertions that this is actually good for us, this type of data is good for us with peer reviewed studies. So hats off to them for doing that, too. Yeah, I think he passed away four years ago. Okay, but that's a good point. It's one thing to say plants are nice in a house, and it's another thing to say a design concept can actually improve your health and well being, which is what we're talking about. I guess we should say what it is, right? Yeah. Biophilic design is based on this idea that we humans have evolved, have millions and millions of years of evolution behind us, and that most of the evolution took place in the outdoors, or at least in deep connection with nature. And it was only recently some people marked the first Industrial Revolution in Manchester as the real dividing line. But it was only recently that we kind of transitioned away from that deep connection with nature that took place on, like, a daily basis, and that, as a result, we've kind of suffered. And the biophilic design seems to kind of say, well, we're already kind of stuck in our buildings, we're stuck in our work life, but let's figure out how to incorporate nature into that way of living so that we can reconnect with it, because we really do need it. Yeah, I think I've seen a couple of studies that verify this that say that humans generally spend about 90% of their time indoors now. And like you said, as far as that statistic goes, that is very, very recent, if you look at it, relative to how long humans have been around. Yeah. So there's this idea that if we have literally evolved to gain sustenance and an ability to thrive from being connected with nature. The converse of that is that if you take people away from that and stick them into highly artificial built environments like an office building. Eight or 10 hours a day. Five days a week. 50 weeks a year. They're going to start to suffer and deteriorate mentally and physically. And that's kind of the basis of this concept, is like, okay, if we've got to work like that, let's work more in conjunction with nature. Yeah. And there's a couple of cool quotes here. It's nothing new that people understand that being among nature is a generally sort of more pleasing way to live, but if you could read from the great Ralph Waldo Emerson almost at the Row, they were a weird pair. You know what I mean? Yeah. Which reminds me, I think we have a literary correction on today's episode. Oh, boy. Wow. Everything's just coming together. It is. But he wrote in 1044 2nd series essays, and this is in the mid 1800s, only as far as the masters of the world have called in nature to their aid can they reach the height of magnificence. This is the meaning of their hanging gardens, villas, garden houses, islands, parks, and preserves. So he was kind of straight up saying, it in the mid 1800 that we can only peak as people when we are surrounded by nature as much as we can be. And that's why even back then, I guess, they were trying to bring the outside in. Right. And Emerson was like, right, guys? And for a long time, people were like, yeah, of course. Why would you even say that? You weirdo. And then by about the mid 20th century, the captains of industry at the time said, you know what, Ralph? Who. Yeah. They said, Nuts to the transcendentalists. We're going a completely opposite direction, and we're going to show just how much we've conquered nature. We're going to do nothing but, like, straight lines and right angle. And when the oil embargo comes along in the 70s, we're going to decree by government mandate that buildings have to be so tightly sealed that not a drop of air can possibly escape them, and everything's going to be totally artificial and controlled, including the lighting and everything. And we're going to show that we conquered nature. We don't even need nature. And then in very short order, within just a few decades, people started to be like, I can't live like this. I didn't see anything directly connected to it, but I would hazard a really armchair anecdotal guess that you could trace a lot of the weird things that people do like mass shootings and office spaces and workplaces and things like that to the environment a lot more than people have traced directly. I'll bet you could. I agree, it's a total guess, but from what I can tell, that seems to be largely in conjunction with a lot of the depth that people have lent to biophilic design investigations. So that's fine. Yeah, I think it could be a factor, for sure. There was another gentleman in the 60s named Eric from that sort of introduced in the 20th century this idea of biophilia, but I think it was Edward O. Wilson who he's kind of known as the 21st century Darwin. He's a biologist and a writer and a philosopher and an ant specialist. But he wrote a book in 1984 called Biophilia, and I think that was where I think it's biophilia. I didn't see an eye in that case, but I'm pretty sure. Okay, sorry, go ahead. I didn't mean to correct you necessarily. I know that no, it may be, but either way, I think he was the person who coined the term. That's the first use of it I actually saw of that word. Yeah, it's biophilia, like for love of life or love of living things, basically. And I think Edward O. Wilson deserves his own episode. He's an interesting dude. Totally. As a boy, Chuck, I read an anecdote about him as a boy. He happened to be living in like, I think around New Orleans. When the first fire ants showed up to North America, they washed ashore somehow, I think from ballast or something like that. From a ship's ballast. And as like an eleven year old boy, he was smart enough to recognize that they were something new or different and described them scientifically. I think he was the first person to describe fire ants in North America as an eleven year old kid. If your specialty in your life, you had a lot of passions, but if your main life passion is ants, then you're pretty cool in my book. Yeah. So this whole theory of biophilia basically says what we're saying, what biophilic design is based on, that humans evolved to get their cues and their happiness and their wellbeing and our ability to thrive from our natural settings, and that we just have like a deep need to connect with nature. And that when we don't, bad things can happen basically to our wellbeing, even things we don't necessarily put our finger on as being the result of not being connected to nature. But it still is. It's still what the underlying thing is. And apparently biophilic design, as far as architecture and interior design go, it finds its roots a little more, even more recently than Edward O. Wilson. It actually comes out of the 90s when there is a movement to change zoo enclosures to make them more naturally. That's where this whole movement of living plant walls at your local hyatt hotel lobby comes from zoo enclosures, which is really kind of eye opening when you realize that's the basis of it. I think that's a great place for a medium cliffhanger. Okay, I'll take medium today. All right, we'll be right back after this. All right, so, Medium Cliffhanger, you introduced the idea that it was really in the 90s when they started to redo zoo enclosures, where this idea for humans sprung up. And I guess the only cliffhanger is who kind of helped lead that charge, and it's a psychologist named Judith. Her wagon. I would say her wagon, but in America, it's probably her wagon. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's a Seattle zoo, right? Yeah, she was a graduate student, and I can't believe this was the know and not the guess. It took a while before we started saying and this wasn't every zoo, but there were still a lot of zoos then that would keep a gorilla and a monkey in a cage. And they sat up, and people like Judith said, you know what? Why don't we make this more like their habitat? Because they're experiencing zucosis. They're fighting. They're not social, they're not reproducing. That's a big problem. And out of that was born the same idea for humans, which is funny that it took so long from the kind of really take hold more with humans because we called it inhumane for animals. But for us, I guess it was just fine. Maybe they just didn't see the connection. Yeah, I suppose they didn't, because the way that they changed the zoo animals enclosures for the better was to make them much more like their natural habitat. And the animals that live at the zoo are far more recently removed from their natural habitat, so we can imagine them in a grassland with some trees, like a savannah or living among antelope or something like that. All of these techniques that they brought together to make the places where they lived at zoos a lot more like the ecosystems that they lived in back home. When you think of humans, you don't think of us living on savannahs or grasslands, but that's the very basis of this idea. This theory of biophilia is that that's where we evolved on the savannah. These big, open, grassy meadows with lots of trees and probably some water somewhere, trickling by just basically everything that any human alive thinks of as an idyllic, outdoor place. That's the kind of setting that we evolved in, and that that's the kind of habitat that we need to interact with, too, just as much as zoo animals does. And it's like our technology made us forget that we're animals. That's what happens, you know what I'm saying? Like, we lost that memory. And so I think that's why it wasn't the opposite. Like, oh, we need to make a better habitat for humans and then make it for zoo animals. It was the opposite way around because we don't think of ourselves as animals any longer. Yeah. I think we thought our natural habitat is the building. Yeah, exactly. So it goes a step further, though. Like, it's much more than just put in some plants or a fountain that makes a nice trickling sound. They really want to get into sort of the evolutionary aspect of the whole thing and that if it was a benefit evolutionarily over time, over the millennia, then that's what's going to contribute to the actual health and well being. So it had to be an actual thing that really improved us for thousands or millions of years, not just something that maybe went away or like a desert habitat or something like that. It had to be something in order for the science to work. And we'll get to that. Something that really contributed as we evolved to our wellbeing. Yeah. So again, we come back to that savannah hypothesis, which means that if you're designing something that kind of seeks to emulate a savannah, well, there's lots of high open spaces, so you might have like a really soaring atrium, lots of trees that you can just put some trees into that atrium. Again, a little bit of a water feature. One of the other big things that's kind of like a foundation of biophilic design is it's like you're saying you can just put a water feature in and put a tree in and call it a day. There actually needs to be thought into how these things interact and form a cohesive whole. You want to see the forest, not the trees, when you're creating biophilic design. And they kind of have to fit together correctly in an intuitive way or else that innate sense that evolved in the savannah that's lodged in all of our brains will know, like, this is fake and it probably won't have a benefit for us, and it might even have a negative benefit if it's not done correctly. Yeah, like the idea is to create an indoor ecosystem that sort of mimics the outdoors in a lot of ways. The whole is bigger than the sum of its part if you really want the individual to have a genuine improvement in their health and well being. And like I said, not just, hey, this bank put a palm tree in the corner. Right. Isn't it nice to look at? Yeah, but I mean, that's something. It's better than nothing. But I think sure, that the fact that seeing a potted plant in a place like a bank even back in the mid century was not weird or jarring. Like, it just looked like, yeah, of course you would do that. There is this kind of like early trace evidence of this kind of like a cry for help, like, hey, we need something, we need something natural in here, even a fake potted plant to fool us into thinking that there's some sort of nature here. But, yeah, biophilic design basically says, forget your potted plant. We need like a whole planting, a whole cropping, a whole little like a garden, like a glade, something that looks natural, not just a single plant in a pot in a corner. That's not good enough. Yeah. And sort of one of the third tenants is that you have to kind of engage and interact with this. There's the idea that biophilia is what's known as a weak biological tendency instead of a hard wired one. And that means if it's a weak one, that means that you got to work on it and it has to be nurtured. And maybe this could be employed, like instead of a plant wall is very nice, but what's even better is a hallway lined with plants that you have to literally walk through and interact with. Yeah. The idea behind this kind of foundational concept is that if you're really creating a biophilically designed workplace for your employees, putting everything you got into the foyer or the atrium or where the reception desk is, it's going to allow the people who come through the doors. But when they pass through, they're entering just a normal office and it loses all of its impact. Like that receptionist is going to be working like gangbusters and probably have the best life they possibly could, but everybody else who works there who just passes through the lobby is not going to really benefit from it. It needs to be kind of constant and it can be ephemeral, it can be kind of fleeting or passing, but there needs to be like the constant possibility of fleeting and ephemeral contact with nature so that over the course of an entire day it was virtually constant. It just came in different forms that were kind of fleeting. A good example of this is like the shadows of something changing in the office space as the day progresses that's ephemeral, that's fleeting. But there are still shadows even though they're in different places and different sizes and shapes and angles throughout the day, the shadows are still there all day and they change and that we feed on. That is kind of the basis of biophilic design that has an effect on us, a positive one to be able to see that during the day. Yeah, and I think the idea too is also if you are surrounded by or in a building that employs biophilic design, you're developing an emotional attachment to a place you might not ordinarily develop an attachment to. And I think anyone who's ever walked through just a sort of a standard gross office like we used to work in our office, we haven't been in it for a while but it's kind of cool because we have this huge bank of windows which is nice and a lot of people have plants, which is nice, but we've been in some bad offices over the years. It's so bad. Like just straight, nothing but marble, like barely any plants. It's just bad news. And then like, the actual offices were just divided up with high sight lines that you had to kind of stand on your tiptoes. Just bad news for sure. So walking through something like that and then the experience you have emotionally of when you're at a botanical garden and you're walking through a greenhouse, maybe there are people that don't like things like that, but it's hard to imagine somebody walking through one of these lush sort of humid greenhouses. That the good ones. It's just packed with stuff everywhere and you hear water running and plants are brushing up against you as you move. I don't know, many people would just be like, no thanks. Yeah. Out of there. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'm sure there are people out there. I know there are plenty of people that don't like to go camping or be in the woods and stuff like that. But I'd say even a lot of those people would enjoy a greenhouse experience right now. Or no. Or at the very least would enjoy prefer a lobby that has it's well done with biofilm design to one that's just sterile in Norwegian. I think they're kind of leading the charge on a lot of this stuff. Yeah, weirdly. They are, for sure. We kind of reach now. The reason why a lot of the big tech companies are leading the way in working with architecture firms and design firms that are pushing biophilic design on them is that they're basically trying to subliminally trick you into liking work. Right. They want you to form a place attachment to their office so that you stay there more, you have fewer sick days, you do more while you're there, you just enjoy yourself there. And there's really kind of two ways of looking at big corporations getting into biophilic design. And one is that you're being manipulated to increase your productivity, like you're deeply manipulated on an evolutionary, almost genetic level, or that you have to be at work anyway and they're trying to make it as pleasant as possible for you. Right. I guess it just depends on whether you're like a glass half full or half empty kind of person. But those are the two interpretations of huge companies getting into biophilic design. All of them have. Like Facebook's Campus and Menlo Park, the Googleplex, Microsoft's Office and redmond cupertino apples. Big old Donut UFO. All of them have Amazon's offices. I think they're called bezos balls downtown in Seattle. That's what they call them. That I read me wrong. Seattle proved me wrong. All of them are designed with biofilc design right now. Yeah. I think you'd have to be fairly cynical when an effort is made to bring a more calming, healthful environment to be like, yeah, I see what they're doing here. They're just manipulating me. I see. Yeah, for real. Who would think of that? Who would think that way? You're not like that at all. Yeah. Right. So some of the ways that you can I mean, there's sort of indirect and direct ways of doing this. Obviously, we talked about plants. Light is a big one in that first office we had years ago in bucket. I think that's what you're talking about. Our cubicle walls were so high, it was stifling, and no light, natural light would come in. I think there were some offices on the outside. So if you had an office, maybe you had a window, but otherwise you were just counting on fluorescent lights above your head, which are the worst. I think we should do a shortage of fluorescent lighting at some point, for sure. It would be kind of cool. But water features are always great. The sounds of running water, the visual appeal of running water. I agree, but I feel like there could be too much. Like, I think that the sound of water in particular is supposed to be something that we hear in passing or at a distance. Like, I think if you just heard water trickling all day long kind of loudly, it might drive you a little bit crazy. You think? I think so. That's just my take on it. I would dig it, but you might just have to pee too much. Right. That's definitely part of it. But I love the sound of water, too. I find it extremely relaxing. I just think it could be overdone, is what I mean. Okay. All right, I hear you. These are sort of the obvious real natural things that you can bring in open windows occasionally to get real fresh air in there. Yeah. One of the things I saw, Chuck, was natural ventilation. And I'm sorry, this is a bit of a thing to me. I am totally fascinated by how this fits into this. What do you mean? So the idea that the buildings of yesteryear, unfortunately, that a lot of us still work in were sealed off purposely to make them more energy efficient, but that all of the air that passes through is very filtered and artificial, and there's nothing coming in from the outside. Biophilic design says, no, don't do that. Like, go back to natural ventilation. Like, you're going to have lower energy costs. You're going to have pleasant breezes blowing through. You're going to have changes in temperature that are much more natural. Which sounds good, but in practice, it's like, well, what about your what about your computer hardware? There's a lot of humidity in the air, too. Right. What effect is I can have on all of your employees computers or the servers in the basement or whatever? Or what about when it's cold out? Do you leave the doors open? What do you do about it during the wintertime and then also in the spring? What about your employees who have seasonal allergies? Good point. I totally get the need for that. But that is the one part of. Biophilic design that I'm like. This is the thing that's most at odds with modern office buildings. The air. Like natural air versus artificially treated air. I don't know how they're figuring that out and I couldn't find a lot on it. But I'm fascinated by that one. I wonder if it's more like it's not completely one or the other. Like, you have your HVAC system and everything still, but when the weather agrees, you can open your windows like they're not hermetically sealed, like most offices. Yeah, okay. I saw that there was called a mixed system where you're using both and yeah, it depends on when, but then if it's really cold out or whatever it is, everybody just have to be like it's super artificial inside for the next few months and then maybe you'll get 90 again. There's got to be a way to conquer that, I think. Yeah, so, I mean, to me, what fascinates me about this whole thing is I've always been a nature guy. So it's obvious to bring in plants and water and stuff like that. I think the more indirect things are really fascinating. There's this place in Portugal, I think there are a bunch of them. They're called Second Home. It's a coworking space. But this one in Portugal specifically is well known for having more than 2000 plants. So that's sort of the obvious one. But they also just in their design, they don't have any straight lines in the office because there are no straight lines in nature. Rarely. They don't have matching office chairs and desks and things like that because there's variety in nature. So they'll just have just different chairs everywhere. And like actual they call it fractal complexity that you find in nature and different shapes of things. And I don't think that's the kind of thing where someone would walk in and say look at all these different office chairs. I feel so alive. Right. But I think it's just little things like that kind of contribute to the whole as working as a part of that emotional and I guess, mental ecosystem. Yeah, that's exactly the point. What is the dude's name who passed to Kellert? Yeah, Dr. Keller was kind of breaking it down into two things. One's, direct experience of nature and then the stuff you're talking about falls under the umbrella of indirect experience of nature. Kind of like being worked on, subliminally by things like curve shapes and fractal patterns or using like stone, stone flooring over, like material choices. Big, highly artificial carpet or something like that. Or granite countertops as a way of evoking nature because it is still granite. It's just that we've kind of carved it into the shape that isn't natural. There's lots of straight lines, usually with a granite countertop, but it's still a natural material. It still evokes nature. There's also using artificial light that's designed to kind of change throughout the course of the day. That's another way to kind of indirectly experience nature just kind of using suggestions and tricks. The stuff you wouldn't put your finger on to be like nature, but it's still having that biophilic impact on you. Although a lot of what I saw as far as researching is that some of the leaders in this space kind of say, like nuts to artificial light, get as much real light into the space as you possibly can. From what I saw, that was just light. That was like the number one thing is natural light. Like letting natural light in. Yeah. The other thing that I think is really cool is way finding, like, how a building is laid out. As far as usually it's like you're walking down a straight hall. You turn left to go down another straight hall. But if they can mimic nature a little bit more and have hallways that are a little more meandering, you got to get where you need to go. Sure. But if it's done in a more natural way, like meander to a central point, which might be the oasis or something like that, I think that's a really cool way to bring it out. Yeah, we talked a lot about that in the environmental psychology episode, but we talked about it from a different perspective where they would use tricks and techniques to keep you on a path rather than letting you wander off to places you weren't supposed to be. That was part of Wayfinding for sure, but yeah, that's a fascinating topic, period. Like, whenever I go to a hospital that's really smartly laid out. And hospitals are notorious for people getting lost and not be able to find where you need to go. And if you go to one that has done it right, it's really cool to think about how much effort goes into that. Yeah, I love that, too. That was one of my favorite parts of that episode. And I like this, too, but it's just with biophilic design, it's like, take a left by the mud pools, and then when you run into the pack of wild boars, turn back around because you've gone too far. Yeah. Go by the mud pools and say hi to Gary from Accounting all day long. It is crazy for the mud pools. We can never get Gary out of there. Should we take a break and talk about the science? Yeah, I'm just trying to see if I had any more because there was a lot of indirect and direct experiences of nature, but, yeah, I guess that's it. Okay, sure. In other words, let's do it. Oh, I did have one. Chuck. Now that we're back, one of the direct experiences of nature from Dr. Keller was weather. So my idea for biophilic design would be to paste cotton balls onto a piece of construction paper that's cut out in the shape of a cloud. Put those on the walls here or there. That's the thing that you were trying to think of? Yes. That was the thing I decided was worth restating after the break. Oh, man. I love little cotton ball clouds. Love them. Plus they're cotton too, so it's even more natural because it's a natural material evoking a different part of nature. Do you want to make your employees head spin with productivity? Make cotton ball clouds and put those on the wall and you could use it as a little pillow during your break time? Very nice. So, science, this is all well and good and can be kind of hippy dippy if you think about it. But is there actual science behind this? And it appears that there is in most cases. There have been a lot of studies. I found a couple of different ones, not in this article, but one was in 2019 in Denmark. Kids who had been exposed to greenery had 55% less mental health problems later in life. There were a couple of studies in Norway that found that subjects who did reading and attentionbased tasks surrounded by plants and greenery improved their scores over time. And there's a lot of talk about what's called attention restoration theory, which is if you're staring at a screen all day, even taking a minute to go stare at a window at a tree can restore you a little bit. I thought of a really good analogy for this, if I do say so myself. You know those grounding rods that we put into the ground outside of our houses and all of our electrical appliances are connected to it, and we discharge the excess electricity into the ground where it dissipates. I think that's kind of what nature does to us, whether it's gazing out a window or going out into nature. We're, like, unburdening ourselves. With all of the just crud that has gathered up and the tension that's gathered from staring at the screen or thinking or over exerting ourselves, we are able to disperse it into nature. And nature is a big enough reservoir to accept it, and we feel better afterward. I think that's kind of close to what we're doing. I wonder if we're ever going to find a mechanism for how that actually happens. Or is it the opposite, where we're actually depleted and then seeing nature recharges us? It's two different versions. Well, I mean, I think the science does back it up. There was another study from Northwestern in 2013 that found that people who are exposed to natural light more during the workday got an additional 46 minutes of sleep at night. So it's not just like, improved work productivity and happy feelings. It's like you're getting solid sleep at night. Yeah, and I mean, there's just unequivocally a lot of science to back it up, including, on a physiological level, things like we have lower levels of cortisol, our heart rates are lowered. We just generally are physically better off when we have things like a good view of nature or where there's breezes or where especially I saw where we're exposed to even indirect sunlight throughout the day. That has an enormous impact on our sense of wellbeing, as far as things like anxiety and depression go as well. So there's a lot of science to back it up. What I saw kind of how Keller put it, is there seems to be this architecture and design wants to figure out how to take this idea and package it so that they can just sell it everywhere as easy as possible. That's just true with all industry and business. Whenever somebody comes up with a really good idea, they want to figure out how to mass produce the American way. Right. And Keller was basically saying, like, there's a real danger in basically laying this out and establishing exactly how to do this because people will just kind of commodify it and package it, and they will lose it. Like, that's not how biophilic design actually works. Instead, here are the principles of it. Figure out how to make it work in harmony with a lot of what's called informational richness. So there's a lot going on, but not too much, because if it's too busy or too noisy, then now you've got problems because you have a bunch of distracted employees or a bunch of distracted customers, whoever. There's a lot of balance. But these guys who kind of created this field and then again backed it up with science, kind of laid out the foundation of it and said, now it's up to you, the designer, to figure it out on each different case. Don't try to package it because you're going to lose this if we try to commodify it. Interesting. Yeah, I thought that was very hippy dipping. It is, but at the same time, it was very wise of him to include that. Yeah. There was one more study I wanted to mention, because it's not just in the workplace, but recuperating in the hospital is actually this is where it can really help people. In 1984, the National Institutes of Health published a study that found that people recuperating after surgery, had shorter stays in the hospital overall, and needed less pain meds, even if just simply they had a garden view as opposed to some other credit view, like a brick wall or a parking lot. Yeah. Roger Ulrich, we talked about him in the environmental psychology episode, too, I think, because that basically laid the groundwork for the science. Backing up biophilic design was that first study. Well, what can people do at home? There's a lot you can do at home. You can get yourself a mud pool and some wild boars. That's a good first step. Look out for Gary. Get that really famous banana leaf print wallpaper. Put it everywhere. You can get you some cotton balls and some construction paper. One thing that they figured out, there's this company called Bright Green or Terrapin Bright green. They're kind of a leader in the field. They figured out that one of the things that is an element of biophilic design is something called a refuge where your back is covered or protected. And then you have something overhead, kind of low overhead. Pretty cool. Think about how, like, when you're in a restaurant and you're at a high back booth that's up against the corner. It is. It's the best seat in the house the Mafia can't get you, right? Or you're sitting with nothing but like a wall or some shrubs or something behind you and there's like an umbrella at a cafe overhead, like a little place, a quiet spot for you. There's advice that you should set up a place like that at your home. It could be a high wing back chair or something by a fireplace. Just a place where you feel protected but also very cozy too. Yeah, I love that idea because I'm not crazy about it, but I always try and sit with my back against the wall if I can. But it's not like I have to or else I'll freak out. Well, you've got Georgia Power looking for you now, so I would definitely watch my back if I were you too. Another thing to do, obviously, is plants inside your home. But not just think about like we said earlier, about the ecosystem. How these plants work together and groupings of plants and form a little habitat if you can. And do a little bit of research about what plants like each other and pair those little buddies together. Yeah, that's a big one. But, yeah, even if it is just a couple of plants to start, don't wait. Just start buying plants and bringing them into your house now. And also learn how to take care of your plants because plants can be really easy to take care of if you just know what they need. And you will save a lot of plant lives and a lot of time and trouble for yourself. Agreed. And then the view is another easy thing that people can do depending on where you live. If you have, for some reason, covered up your outdoor windows with a bookcase, move the bookcase so that you can look out the window. One of the basis of that Savannah hypothesis is that we evolved to relax or be relaxed by a long range view. What's it called? The 1000 yard fair. Yeah, that feels good. It's a little different, but sure. But that's why when you're doing that, you are zoned out. You're kind of in a Zen trancelike state. That's what you're doing. This is kind of like well, when we're looking at our computers or our phones or something like that, we're doing the opposite of that. So having a nice view, what's called a prospect as far as biophilic designers are concerned that can really have a refreshing restorative effect on us, even physically on our eyeballs. I love it. Yeah, I mean, when you dig into it, you're like, oh, this is actually for real. It's hard to read about because the architecture and design fields are possibly the two most pretentious fields the Western world has ever come up with. So reading writing about architecture and design is really kind of laborious. But when you dig into it, it is backed up and it does make a lot of sense. I just hope it's not just a passing trend that it's here to stay. Yeah, I think we redid our house a couple of years ago, and one thing that we wanted to make sure we allotted enough money for was windows and lots of windows. And unfortunately, windows are one of the more expensive things in a house. So my advice to people, if you are redoing your home or something like that, or renovating cotton balls. Cotton balls. And try and set aside dough. And don't skimp on the windows if you can, even if it means maybe losing something else, because that natural light is huge. Go from a one bathroom to a zero bathroom with more windows. Lots of yeah, well, okay, Chuck, good advice to end the episode on. You got any other advice? Well, just one more little interesting thing. If you hear a plant company talk about all these plants will purify the air in your home. That's kind of not true. That sounds familiar. Yeah, I mean, plants are always good for the air, but apparently The Atlantic issued a report that said if you really want to clean the air in a ten x ten foot room, you would need like a thousand house plants in there. Yeah, I think to effectively clean it. I think I saw that. But hey, but it's still great. Get 1000 house plants in your ten x ten room. Just learn to live among them. Agree. It's just once they start talking to you, then it's time to go outside. Right? You got anything else now? Nothing else, I promise. Well, if you want to know more about biophilic design, go online and start looking at pictures and maybe go to a local Embassy Suites because they've been doing it in their lobbies for years and to good effect if you ask me. And since I shouted out Embassy Suites, that means it's time for listing or mail. This is a literary correction, and I can't believe this snuck past me and you, but from your mouth. Okay, guys, I want to preface by saying I'm very disappointed in myself for writing this email. I feel bad that the first time I've written to you is with a correction, but my inner English major can't resist the episode on dragons. Josh made a reference to William Blake's epic poem Paradise Lost. Yeah, but that was John Milton. William Blake lived over a century later, but wrote a lot of poetry on biblical themes as well. Confusingly, Blake also wrote his own epic poem called Milton, which was inspired by the story of Milton's writing Paradise Lost. Oh, my gosh. It is a little confusing. And Jenna says, I'm sorry to nitpick, but also had to mention that the Fairy Queen was written by Edmund Spencer, rather than Spencer Edmund. I said comma. I think in between that, I think I said, Spencer comma Edmund. Incidentally, I think Milton and Blake would both make great topics. Milton was an incredibly prolific writer who dealt with the onset of blindness as he wrote Paradise Loss, and Blake was a true Renaissance man who spearheaded the romantic movement. Spencer's life is maybe not quite so exciting, but you two would find a way to make it interesting, as you do with everything. Thank you to and Jerry for making such a great show. This kept me company over the past year, especially for handling both fun and difficult topics in such a comprehensive and thoughtful way. Love, Jenna. That is a very lovely email. Yes, lovely is a perfect word for that. Hopefully Jenna agrees. She's the English major, so she would know. If you want to get in touch with us, like Jenna did, in a very nice way. We love that. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts myheartradio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows." | |
Is spontaneous human combustion real? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/is-spontaneous-human-combustion-real | Scientists have proven that spontaneous combustion, or burning without an external ignition source, can occur in some objects. But what about human beings? Tune in and learn more about spontaneous human combustion in this podcast from HowStuffWorks.com. | Scientists have proven that spontaneous combustion, or burning without an external ignition source, can occur in some objects. But what about human beings? Tune in and learn more about spontaneous human combustion in this podcast from HowStuffWorks.com. | Thu, 28 May 2009 15:06:13 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2009, tm_mon=5, tm_mday=28, tm_hour=15, tm_min=6, tm_sec=13, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=148, tm_isdst=0) | 19314400 | audio/mpeg | "Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. That doesn't count because I was shipping oh, well, do your cheek thing then, too, Chuck. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Chuck Bryan is staring dully forward. You have the dull stare of the dairy cow, not the eye of the tiger, Chuck. Right. This is in tribute to the lobotomy episode. Did I just give you a verbal lobotomy? You did. You don't want to know. We're talking about bad things. Hey, Chuck, when I was a kid, I was in the Cub Scouts. Okay? Sure, yeah. Cub Scouts. I never made it to Boy Scouts. Yeah, I definitely didn't. And you would think that that would have helped shape me as a young man, right? Yeah, you would be wrong. Okay. I can tell you one thing that shaped me more than Cup Scouts ever did. And it was a single picture, a photograph, and all it was was a leg. And there was a sock and a slipper attached to it, black and white. And the thing about this leg is it wasn't severed. The end of it was charred. Yes. And it turns out that this leg belonged to a guy named Doctor Irving J. Bentley. And the photo was taken in 1966 in his Pennsylvania home. And what happened to Dr. Bentley was that he spontaneously combusted. And I thought that was the coolest thing I had ever heard of in my entire young life. Do you really remember seeing that? Oh, yeah. And actually, strangely enough, I was at a nursing home once, and I saw in real life something that startled me because it looked just like it. It was a prosthetic leg, and it was just dumped on this gurney that also had, like, a TV, bed, pants. It was apparently like a mobile storage closet right out in the hallway. Right. But there was a prosthetic leg that went from the knee to the foot, and it had, like, knee high pantyhose on it and a shoe. Still, I'm like, all these people are going to die soon. Can we maybe keep this out of their line of sight? But yeah, so I saw that I immediately thought of Dr. Bentley's leg, but yeah. So I used to just think spontaneous human combustion is the coolest thing ever. It is pretty remarkable. Yeah. Let's talk about it. Why not? That's a great idea. And I feel bad because someone requested this last week, and I don't have the name. I apologize to whoever is out there. This is for you, Becky. Becky, this is for you. No binky. That's right. So, yeah, this is a listener request. Have you noticed the uncomfortable pauses have been increasing in frequency lately? It's because you're wearing sunglasses and it's weird. No, it's not just today. Okay. You don't like the shades it's just off putting because I can't see your beautiful browns. You're a dream boat, Chuck. So, Chuck, let's get back to spontaneous human combustion. Yes. The earliest written account of it occurs in 1663. And Dutch anatomist Thomas Bartolin wrote of a woman in Paris who, quote, went up in ashes and smoke. Right. Which is asleep, which is normal enough. The weird thing is, this woman, as I imagine was normal for the era, was sleeping on a straw mattress. And a straw mattress didn't go up, just the woman did. That was the first clue that something was odd, something amiss. And then a couple of years later, there was a guy who was French. His name was Jonas Dupont. And apparently there were enough stories of spontaneous human combustion that he put a collection of them together called Spontaneous Latin dead Language. Not a dead language. Oh, yeah. No, trust me. Listener male came in and scolded us for saying it was a deadline. It's just a phrase. Sure. That it's dead. Yes. It's a figure of speech. Yes. So apparently this has been around for a while, at least since the 17th century. And it's only happened a couple of hundred times, I think between two and 300 people burning up inexplicably a couple of hundred times. That's pretty significant. I mean, that's a lot of credence to it, in my opinion. So let's talk about spontaneous human combustion. And it's actually differentiated from just spontaneous combustion because you stick the human in there, it means a person is burning up. Yeah. Other things can spontaneously combust. I know. Like a bucket of oily rags or hay bales have been known to combust, which is weird because we know how a bucket of oily rags can combust. As the oxygen interacts with the oily rags, it can actually raise the temperature to the ignition point. And then there you go. Or a kid goes by and throws a match in it. Yeah, one of those two. We used to believe that field mice were born from leftover grain. Really? Yeah. So maybe oily rags don't really combust spontaneously. It is just little kids. Never thought about it. Yeah. So let's talk about this. Josh, the deal is your extremities remain intact. That's one of the telltale giveaways sometimes. I thought it was all the time. No, it's most of the time. Okay. Yeah, but not always. So what we're saying is by that we mean the torso and the head are usually burned through, and then there's usually a foot or a leg or an arm or Bentley. Yeah, exactly. Another characteristic is that the surroundings, the immediate surroundings, are often left untouched. Or they have strange burn marks to them. Not your typical burn marks. Or the room doesn't catch on fire for some reason. A sweet, smoky smell and a greasy residue. Greasy residue. Imagine licking a greasy residue off of a piece of furniture in a room where someone spontaneously combusted. Yeah, I would prefer not to. That would be gross. So unnecessary. And then a lot of times, like you said, the limbs are left untouched. Very rarely in cases of spontaneous human combustion do the victims survive, but they have yeah. This is freaky. Sometimes it's just burn spots forming on somebody's body, or somebody will start smoking. Yeah, imagine smoking. Just smoking. Yeah. That's fire present. No, there's no flames whatsoever. You're just smoking or all of a sudden you're burning. Those are very rare, but they have been documented before, right? Yeah. I can't imagine that'd be so bizarre. So what's up next about it? Well, I guess some theories on why it happens. Well, first, let's point out why this is weird, if it's not obvious enough. But for combustion to take place, you need intense heat. You need a flammable substance. Right. We're not too terribly flammable. We'll burn. Right. If somebody douses gasoline on us and throws a match. But that's about that. So that's why spontaneous human combustion, scientifically speaking, is so weird. Right. What's the earliest explanation you came across for how spontaneous human combustion works? The earliest explanation? Are you talking about the Dickens, charles Dickens? Well, he reflected a widely held belief at the time. Right. In his novel Bleakhouse. He had a character that he killed off by spontaneous human combustion, which I thought was kind of funny or not funny, but kind of cool. The character's name was Kruk, and he was an alcoholic. So at the time, they posited the theory that maybe excessive amounts of alcohol, which, as we all know, is flammable in the body, caused this. Yeah, apparently. One theory is that methane builds up in the intestine, which is flammable. Methane is flammable? Definitely. It's very flammable. And it's a terrible greenhouse gas. Did you know that? I did. And then some sort of enzyme that acts as a catalyst in cellular processes and builds up heat as a byproduct ignites this methane and kaboom but there's a problem. There's a big problem with that. Yeah. Most of the victims, when they spontaneously combust, they have more damage to the outside of the body than the internal organs. So that kind of flies in the face of that theory. Definitely. So we poopoo that one. We poopoo that one. Static electricity. Yeah, go ahead. I guess that's pretty much it. Static electricity build up on the outside of your body again. Kaboom right. Or magnetic force. A geomagnetic force exerted on the body is another one. Kind of along those lines. Again, these are entirely possible. There's another one that's possibly a little less credible, posited by Larry Arnold, who is an expert in investigator. A self proclaimed expert, whatever. Now, some people are vetted. Okay. Well, he also wrote a book called Blaze, and it's like an account, an amazing account of spontaneous human combustion stories, which, I got to tell you, I would have eaten alive at age eight. Sure. But yeah, so he has his own hypothesis, and it's that there's a subatomic particle called pyroton. Right. Yeah. And that when it interacts with cells in a certain way, it can create an explosion. The big problem with this is a miniature explosion, we should point out, okay? Not some huge depending on how much methane is built up in your intestine. Yeah. If you know what I'm saying. The big problem with it is that the particles theoretical, it hasn't been proven to exist. Yeah. He made it up. Or made up the name, at least. Yeah. Pyrot. It's good name. Yes. It means fire tan. You know what I like? I like the Wick theory. This one makes the most sense to me. Yeah, absolutely. So the Wick theory you know how a candle works, Josh? I do, Chuck. Would you like me to explain that? No, I will. Okay. A candle has a Wick, which everyone knows, and that Wick is surrounded by wax, which is made of flammable acids, fatty acids. Or it can be petroleum, like paraffin wax. Right. Or my wife's candles are soy on Loveyourma.com. Are they available for sale on loveyourmama.com? They are indeed. So the wax ignites the Wick, and it keeps the Wick burning. And so a lot of people this is where scientists actually come in and say they think that folks may drop a cigarette, and then that cigarette catches their clothes on fire, the Wick, which is the Wick, and then the fat of the body start to melt, ignite and melt, which they are flammable. We said earlier that we're not generally flammable. We will burn. And what's burning most readily is our fat. Right. But that kind of creates, like, a contained slow burn. It surrounds, like, say, your pajamas are on fire. It surrounds it, and it allows the Wick to continue to burn very slowly. Right, but what about extremities, Chuck? Why are people's limbs left intact? Well, my thought would be that the limbs don't have as much fat going on. That actually is pretty good explanation. What I read was that it has to do with the temperature gradient okay. That they simply don't contain as much heat. Like, you know how your arms get colder than, say, your torso? Oh, right. So if you hold a match upside down, what's at the bottom of something that's burning is usually cooler than what's at the top. So that's why when you light a match, you're supposed to hold it up. Right. If you hold it upside down, a lot of times you'll go out because there's simply just not enough heat to sustain a flame. Right. So the idea with the Wick effect is that eventually the human candle but that's something to see. The human candle eventually gets to a point in the body where there's not enough heat to sustain the flames. And if so, facto, you have just somebody's foot sitting there. Did you see the graphic in the article. I saw the print out of it. I haven't gone through and looked at the flash. Yeah, it's pretty cool. There's like little three stages you can click on, and it shows the body burning and then the body torso decomposing, and then at the very end, you're left with limbs laying on there. Awesome. I'm checking out for sure. Is it as cool as the face transplant illustration? Negative. Not anywhere close, but it's good. That's what science says, and that's what I say, too. I think that makes a lot of sense. It does. And drop the smoke on your chest. And that's supported, actually, by a lot of revelations of people who have spontaneously combusted that they were in fact, smokers. Right. And they probably caught themselves on fire. And in this really strange series of events, they turned into human candles. Right. And then some people, I believe some people, they've decided after the fact were pretty hardcore alcoholics, so they may have been passed out in a stupor. And then some people were infirm and they couldn't get out of bed in a normal state, so they're kind of trapped there. So these things come out after the fact. That kind of makes scientists think, well, it's really not spontaneous combustion. Someone dropped a cigarette. They were passed out drunk until they burned. I think the point is that if you're a caregiver to an infirm individual, if you light a cigarette and stick it in their mouth, stick around and make sure that you put it out once they're done with it. Yeah. Because it can end up really bad for them if they don't. What's weird to me is that nothing else burns in the house. Well, that's that wick effect. That's the fat protecting the actual burning. It's burning inside. It still seems like it wouldn't be so hard for a bed sheet to spark right up. It is odd. I agree with you. That's what makes it so cool, is that it's so unexplained. Yeah. Well, I think yeah. And it seems like it will probably always be unexplained because there's no way to replicate it in a laboratory. Yeah. Not at all. And they always find this after the fact. Sure. So that's all they can do. Yeah. So, Chuck, let's talk about some real life, amazing incidents of spontaneous human combustion. Man, do you hear the eight year old me coming out? I do, but that's not unusual. 1938. Set the scene for us, Chuck. It's 1938. Just a warm night. A 22 year old woman named Phyllis Newcomb was leaving a dance hall in England, in Chills, for England, and she was going down the staircase of the hall and her dress just caught on fire out of nowhere for no reason, and she ran into the back of the ballroom and collapsed on fire, which I bet was quite a sight, too, at the dance. And people rushed to her aid, but it was too late. And she died in the hospital. And there were theories that it combusted, but then some other people said no, it was probably just a cigarette that someone dropped. Yeah, that one's actually the weakest one I've heard. Well, that's because I saved the pearls for you. You've got the biggest pearl since you started, and there's three of them. All right, go ahead. No, I think you should do the last one. This case, Mary Research 67 year old widow who in 1951 was discovered in her house in St. Petersburg, Florida. Her front door was actually hot, and a neighbor broke it down and found that Mary was sitting in her easy chair. There was a black circle around her, I imagine a charred circle, and her head had been burned down to the size of a teacup. That's pretty good. That was about all that was left, except for her backbone and part of her left foot. That was it. Yeah. And apparently her easy chair was still at least enough intact for her to be sitting up and to be erect. Right. So it didn't burn completely up. No. That reminded me of Beetlejuice. Yeah. Visually, when I read it, that's the first thing I thought of. The waiting scene. Sure. Yeah. It's a great scene. Yeah. And actually, the coroner, Dr. Wilton Krogman, he wrote about the incident in his notes. Apparently that were I living in the Middle Ages, I'd mutter something about black magic because it was just so curious. Interesting. I thought that was probably the coolest thing a coroner has ever written. Yeah, maybe. All right, so Chuck, take it home, baby. Knock it out of the park. Yeah. 1982. I'm just a mere eleven year old rugrat in Atlanta, Georgia. Josh is what are you, like four? Six. You're already causing trouble. Yeah. A mentally handicapped woman named Jean Lucille Jeannie Saffin was sitting with her 82 year old father in northern London. And according to her dad, he saw a flash of light out of the corner of his eye and he turned to his daughter and saw that her upper body was enveloped in flames out of nowhere. So he and his son in law, Donald Carroll, managed to put out the fire, but she died of third degree burns. Tell them what he said later of the incident. This is the best part. He said, quote, the flames were coming from her mouth like a dragon and they were making a roaring noise. I know. That is crazy. Can you imagine seeing your daughter with flames roaring out of her mouth? No, because I don't have a daughter. Okay. That would be really weird. Yeah, it would be. It would be a little disconcerting, especially since some people suspected that it's possible an ember from his pipe set her daughter on fire right. And led to flames coming out of her mouth and making a roaring sound. You know, the TV show Fringe actually covered spontaneous human combustion recently. What? Just like House did alien hand syndrome recently. But they were both kind of sensationalized. Well, it wasn't really sciencey. It was for TV. Sure, but they tried. Science can be boring. Chuck sure. Yeah. Well, thank you to our friends at the Fox Network for taking science, exploiting it, and making it much more interesting. And let's see. I guess that's what the listener mail time it is. Hey, Josh. I'm just going to call this amusing fan mail, okay? I've got a couple of light ones first. I like the sound of this. I remember a couple of weeks ago when I said, yeah, I'm going to plug it like and I couldn't think of a plug analogy. Nothing you could say. Nothing I could say. We had a guy named Scott right, in a Scott. And his last name is something, a Scott Blank. He wrote in and said he gave us a few suggestions. We're going to plug it like a Dutch boy at a dike. Nice. We're going to plug it like a beelith celeb on Letterman. Okay. We're going to plug it like an out of work plumber at a rest stop. Me. We're going to plug it like a Haircut for Men convention. I like that one's pretty good. Or we're going to plug it like the Notorious B-I-G. Okay. Which I don't get that one. I think that's a reference to shooting. Maybe. I don't know. I wasn't a big Piggy fan, so maybe there's something in there. And then this one comes from Katie in Wisconsin. Katie says hi. Chuck. Hi, Josh. Longtime listener, first time writer. Love you. Love your podcast. But seriously, Wisconsin? She took us to test. Yeah, I know. No, the way you said Wisconsin the first time was just fine. Nobody here really says it like that. I'll try to explain how Scotty says it's. Gabby we sounds like the start of whistle. So with scon, the o sounds like o. And con man. Not con man. So with Scott Wiscon. Okay. Sin. S-I-N like the seven W. So, Wisconsin. So the way we're seeing it, the first time, wisconsin. Wisconsin. Yeah. Right? So it's just Wisconsin. And you don't need to drag out the A like that. She said, that's just a bunch of bunk. And she said, I guess some French still spell it. O-U-I wish. She thinks that's neat. And I do, too. So, Katie from Wisconsin, thank you for pointing that out, and we love you guys in Eau Claire. Yeah. And elsewhere. Eau Claire. No, it's Eau Claire. Oh, that's right. So, yeah, if you have any amazing facts about Wisconsin or any other place on the planet, or if you just want to say hi or whatever, you can send us an email to stuffpodcast@howstuffs.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseofworks.com. Want more Housetofworks? Check out our blogs on the Houseofworks.com homepage. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 camry. It's ready. Are you? Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today." | ||
436ec8f4-53a3-11e8-bdec-ab8a2528f619 | Zippers: Humans’ Greatest Invention? No, But Still Good | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/zippers-humans-greatest-invention-no-but-still-goo | The zipper may be the most unsung invention we humans have ever come up with. Prior to zippers, everyone walked around like idiots with nothing but buttons to hold their clothes together. The zipper changed all that. The zipper changed everything.
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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | The zipper may be the most unsung invention we humans have ever come up with. Prior to zippers, everyone walked around like idiots with nothing but buttons to hold their clothes together. The zipper changed all that. The zipper changed everything.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | Thu, 07 May 2020 13:23:01 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2020, tm_mon=5, tm_mday=7, tm_hour=13, tm_min=23, tm_sec=1, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=128, tm_isdst=0) | 52312298 | audio/mpeg | "Ah, summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good, it's Criminal Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Ercart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this chart topping series will have you hooked before you know it. Listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. Picture this, friends. You could be packing a carry on for a trip to Hawaii when you realize you're going to need a bigger bag. But it's cool because you booked your flight with your city Advantage Platinum Select Card. So you can check a bag for free on domestic travel and still have room for those souvenirs. And surprise, those souvenirs also earned you Advantage Miles. Actually, you earned Advantage miles and loyalty points with each swipe. So let's start dreaming about your next next adventure. This could be you, and you could be anywhere with the City Advantage Platinum Select Card. Learn more at Citi comAdventure and travel on with cityadvantage. Welcome to stuff. You should know a production of Iheartradios how stuff works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast, everybody. I'm Josh Clark. There's. Charles W. Chuck Tran. Bryant over there. Jerry is somewhere out in the ether, floating along in an alternate dimension of chaos and disorder. And this is stuff you should know. That's right. Inventor series. Sure. Inventors. In this case, lots of inventors. First, I want to say check. I got to fully prepare the studio. The little house studio here. There we go. So I've just sprayed a couple of spritzes of Mama Brand grapefruit Tangerine aromatherapy room spray and I'm feeling energized and ready to go. Oh, good. That's very nice. That is some nice stuff, man. I need some of that in my basement. You should have loads of it. I should. I do. I just don't have it down here. Where could somebody find it if they weren't me? I already know where to find it. We could go to Loveyourmama.com and support small businesses that sell soap when you need soap. Very nice, Chuck. Very nice. And yes, I can attest this to some fine room spray. And you're washing your hands a lot, so get some lotion because you're probably dry. I'm just using the room spray as everything. Yeah, lotion, soap. What else? Essential oil, stuff like that. Lip balm. All the good things to make you slippery. So speaking of slippery, Chuck, you know something that's not really slippery when you use it correctly? A zipper. It's been a while as far as the segway goes, so give me a break. It's been a while. Yeah, you just reminded me of something. Hold on, hold on. I'm very sorry. I got to do this. I'm so glad you reminded me, though. So you sang that song somehow it reminded me of Breakfast at Tiffany's. That song? Yeah, that song. That duo is friends with our buddy Toby Halbrooks. Toby Halbrooks and his lovely wife Anell just had their first baby. Oh, Toby had a baby. Yes. I love it. So congratulations to Toby and Annel. They have a cute little baby too. I've seen a picture of her, and she is adorable. So congrats, guys, and way to go. That's amazing. I'm very happy for them to be he's a great guy. And I don't know if I met his wife. Have I? I don't know. I don't think I have. Maybe it's south by southwest. Maybe. That was a long time ago. It was a while back. I remember eating drinking and eating Bloody Mary's with bacon and cheese and sort of it was one of those places that had it all in the glass. Yeah, it was nice. At the Drexel Hotel, right? Yeah, that was a good day. Drisco. Driscoll. All of that from it's been a while. So let's talk about buttons and then zippers. Okay. So I thought that this was a pretty cool intro, if you ask me. Because if you think about zippers, you think zippers, they're great. Who needs to think much about them? Well, you do, pal. Because you are blessed to be living in an age where zippers exist. Because it was not too long ago, about 100 years, a little over 100 years that there weren't zippers. You had a button, basically, maybe some clasps. Nothing that you were going to be happy dealing with. And most of the time, for most of human history, it was a button that was our only option to connect two pieces of fabric and hold it in place. Yes. Which is more important than you would think, Chuck. The dumb, clumsy button has been around. I think the earliest button that we found comes from a settlement in the Indus Valley civilization which is now modern day Pakistan. And it was a curved shell. It's about 5000 years old. And buttons back then, this was sort of even pre buttonhole. They were loops. If you've ever had one of those cool, old school well, some peacoats have the loop, some don't. But I'm kind of thinking of the loop and bone thing that some of these kind of corduroy coats have had. Or like if you were a cape, you've probably encountered something like this. Yes, my cape definitely has a loop and bone. One of my capes say Pakistan, but like Sammy Davis Jr. Pakistan. Babe. Very nice. The button, from what I understand, though, from this, 5000 years ago up to a little less than 1000 years ago for the most part, it was just basically for showing off. Yeah, you could use it to clasp a couple of pieces of material together or whatever. But for the most part, it was an adornment it was like jewelry. And it wasn't until, I think, the 13th century that buttons started to be taken seriously for the first time, where you had the first button makers guild formed in France in 1250. That was a big watershed moment in the history of buttons. Yeah. Basically, everyone was like, guys, we've had buttons for a long time. I think it's about time we start taking these things seriously. Yeah, it's been amateur hour bush league stuff up to this point. Let's get serious about buttons. And they did. So they really stopped and thought, well, we can make this better. Forget that loop that you put things through, and the button can just fall right back through. What if we make a hole in the actual fabric that we're trying to connect itself, sew some edges around it, and make what will eventually call a button hole? How about that? And this actually as simple as that, is just made clothing technology jump by light years. Yeah, that was a big deal because those loops can break off and often do. Sometimes they just dissolve in the sun. Yeah, those button holes, they don't break. I guess if you were really hard on them, they could eventually split to the seam. But they were a lot better than those loops and buttons. They were the thing. They were around for a long time. They were just sort of the way that you've fastened two pieces of clothing together. But at some point, someone was like, there's got to be a better way. Like every great invention not every great invention, but many great inventions were built on someone trying to do something in a better way. Yeah. Because even when the buttons working on all four cylinders. Which is as many as it has. There's still some real flaws in it. And that the fabric that you're pulling together and holding together with the button might be held at the bottom point. But above and below that button. There's a big old hole. And who knows what's sticking out of there. You know what I'm saying? Sure. Buttons can also pop off. There are some problems with it. And with those flaws, like you're saying, some people said, there's got to be a better way, and a progression of people started to kind of vibe on the same idea separately, from what I understand. And the first of the bunch was a guy named Elias Howe jr. Who in 1851, got himself a patent for an automatic continuous clothing closure. That's right. That was what he called it. Not exactly catchy. Yeah. So his idea was you saw some reinforcements to a couple of edges of material that you want to join together in wedded union, and you connect them with all these clasp, a series of clasps, but they are connected by a corridor running or sliding, as he says in the patent upon ribs. Not the best invention. And it didn't work. That great. Because they were class. Like, this was the predecessor of the zipper. To be sure, he was not on it like later inventors would be. No, but the idea of pulling on like a pull and moving like a mechanism across two pieces of fabric and joining it together and it's awake, that is clearly the foundation of zippers. Like, this clearly laid the foundation and probably would be considered the father of the zipper. But he left everything just sitting there in his 1851 patent. He never pursued it. And most people think that the reason he didn't pursue it is because he had bigger fish to fry in the form of the modern sewing machine. He was also the inventor of the sewing machine. And he's like, I'm feeling a little more bullish about the sewing machine than the zipper, to use collapsing economy type terms. That's right. So the father of the zipper is a man, or generally known as this man from Chicago named Whitcomb. Judson. This is an 1893, about 44 years after Hal had filed his patent. And he marketed and sold, which meant he kind of owned it then as a clasp locker or unlocker for shoes. Which was interesting that he was that narrow in his design. I don't know if it was at the time. I think now you try and go as broad as you can with patents, but back then, he was like, this thing works great for shoes, and shoes are kind of a pain to put on. So that was what we're going to use them for. Yeah, I mean, he was like, this is a real problem because, again, we have buttons mostly for shoes. And because shoes were fairly form fitting, you needed a lot of buttons per inch in a row to really hold these two pieces of fabric together, one flap over another. So these buttons were small and they were sewn close together. So close, in fact, that they invented another invention called a button hook. And it was like a little handheld harpoon, a mini harpoon with a hook on the end. And you would push it through the buttonhole and pull the button out with it. And you do this, like, 8100 times per shoe. And that was how you put shoes on. So, I mean, I'm sure people just put shoes on once when they were a grown adult and just didn't take them off until they were buried. So he was trying to solve the solution with a poll that you could just kind of do the same thing with. And he really took Elias. How? And again, I'm not sure if it was because he was familiar with the patent or not, but he took that and basically said, this is worth pursuing. This is important stuff here. Yeah. So like many great inventors, he got together with a business person, a man named Colonel Lewis Walker, because a lot of times inventors like to toil away in the shop and tinker with things, and they need, like, a real business brain to kind of run the show. Why is it always a colonel, though? Why not, like, a major or in general, is it always a colonel? Yeah. Colonel Tom Parker. Colonel Sanders. Colonel Sanders. Colonel Bruce Springsteen. The Colonel. So he got together with Colonel Walker and launched the Universal Fastener Company to manufacture and sell the Judson security fastener. Very clever. There the letter C, curity facetor. Right. And like so many huge products, were debuted at the 1893 Chicago Worlds Fair and was a huge hit. Except that it wasn't. No, and I have to say, admittedly, it took me at least twice to realize it wasn't Cocourty. Really? Yeah. It wasn't the first time. All right, but so in that 1893 Worlds Fair, when they debuted it have you ever read Devil in the White City? I know I've asked you before. I still have it now. Man, you're really going to like it, Chuck. But anyway, it was that world's fair. God, the guy does such a great job of describing that World's Fair and, like, the importance of it. As far as I know, he doesn't mention zippers, but he may because he did some pretty good research, obviously. But the whole thing was a flop for a couple of reasons. They were really unreliable at the time, and they were really expensive. And when you looked really closely at them, they still weren't what you'd recognize as zippers. They had little clasp. It was a little clasp hook combo. And when you dragged this mechanism up, the clasps were pulled toward one another and hooked. When you pulled it down, they would be unhooked. You also could just do the whole thing by hand. But again, it was still like this, clearly the foundation for zippers, but it wasn't quite right. Luckily, Whitcomb Judson didn't give up. Instead, he hired a guy named Giddy and Sunbeck, who basically came in and is, in my opinion, the true father of the zipper. Right. I think that seems like a natural breakpoint. I thought so, too. Tease it there with Gideon Sundback, and we will come right back and talk about Sundback right after this. Hey, summer is here, my friend, which means school is out, the sun is shining bright, the days are longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. Yeah. Whether you're road tripping or you're relaxing by the pool, you can tune into the podcast here. It's on Amazon Music. That's so good, it's criminal. Morbid. That's right. It's part true crime and part comedy. Morbid takes you on a journey through murderous mysteries and major laughs, all in the same week. Yeah, from the paranormal to the pretty spooky and everything in between, hosts Selena Ercart and Ash Kelly cover it all. And with two episodes released each week, you'll be hooked on this chart topping series before you know it, you can listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen. Today, Capital One offers commercial solutions you can bank on. Now more than ever, your business faces specific challenges and unique opportunities. That's why Capital One offers a comprehensive suite of financial services custom tailored to your short and long term goals. Backed by the expertise, strategy and resources of a top ten commercial bank, a dedicated team works with you to support your success and help you achieve your goals. Explore the possibilities at Capital One. comCOMMERCIAL gerry, there is a 110% chance this can be a little sillier than average. What the Zipre episode? All right. Because they're so silly. So, before we broke, I don't know if you remember, you called Gideon's sonBack the true father of the zipper. Did I say that? I don't know. But he is the father of the zipper because he made what we all recognize as a zipper. He was Swedish born and he was an electrical engineer, which is kind of interesting, you would think, mechanical. But I guess he just knew how to tinker with things. He was a bit of a show off, apparently. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, he was an electrical engineer who was the father of the zipper. Come on. I got you. He was a gloryhog. Colonel Bruce Christine. He was hired to work for that Universal Fastener Company, and he married the plant manager's daughter, Juan Elvira Erinson. It's a great name, which he was talented. So I'm not saying he got it, surely because of nepotism, but he did get a position as a head designer at that company, and he was like this security fastener is okay, but it really ain't all that. His wife, very sadly, passed on in 1911, and that really just gave him the time to pour himself into a project a couple of years later. December of 1913, battle bing, bada boom. You've got the zipper. Yeah. He created the Hook list. Number one and the Hookless number two. And he said in an interview later that the key was getting rid of those hooks. Terrible hooks. The hooks. Everyone was so sick of these stupid hooks. But when it came up with the Hook List Number One and the Hook List Number two and the Hook List Number Two is what you would say, there's your modern zipper right there. It was such a big deal that the company changed its name from Universal Fastener to Hookless Fastener Company. Yeah, that's pretty big. Like, you know, you've kind of made it as the head designer if you design a product. And they changed the company name because of it. And in this patent that Sunbat got, basically, it improved on that security fastener in a number of ways, rather than, I think, four clasps per inch. Well, he changed the clasp to teeth. That was a big first step. And then rather than four clasps per inch, he added at least ten or eleven teeth per inch. So the more points of contact where the fabric is joined together, the stronger that bond is going to be. He also created something, a machine, to produce it with. And that's, I think, where his electrical engineering stuff came in. Yeah, the scrapless machine took this Y shaped wire, cut these little scoops out, and then punched that scoop dimple and little NIB, and then clamp each one of those on a cloth tape. And all these words sound weird when you're just saying them like that. He invented the zipper. He did. Think of his zipper. Look down at your zipper. And that's what he did. That's what all those words mean. Yeah. And again, like the stuff he was working with, the foundation, it wasn't a hop skipping a jump. This guy really contributed to the world, basically. Yeah. And the world caught on. He was making a few hundred feet of these a day initially, and the US. Army said, hey, these are great because here's what we've got going on. We don't have pockets on our sailors pants. I don't know why. And so they need to keep stuff in there. So we give everybody these little fanny packs, basically, these little money belts, and they're always losing their money, these sailors, so we got to have these zippers. We need 240 of these to keep the sailor money inside their fanny packs. Yeah. I think they just assumed that from that point on, any time they went into port, they would come back with all of their money. It still didn't work, but it was clear they hadn't lost it along the way. They just spent it all. Yeah. So 24,000 that year in 1918, they ordered $10,000 for pilot flight suits. Which makes sense. Sure. Got to have those things sealed up. And it still wasn't called a zipper at this point, though. That was the BF goodrich company, who actually used his fastener Sunbags on these galoshes that they put out in 1925. They noticed it made a little zip sound, and so they called these boots zippers. It wasn't actually the zipper. They called the boots the zippers. Isn't that fascinating? The first use of the word zipper describes boots, not the zippers on the boots. Pretty cool. I love it. And Pfgoodrich, I think they still make at least soles for shoes, too. Yeah, yeah. Imagine going to the store and buying a pair of BFGoodrich galoshes. You know those things are going to last. I would think so. You're wearing tires, right? Right. You can only buy them at the tire store. The most boring place on Earth. Oh, yeah. With the worst coffee and the worst magazines. Yeah. Unless you're into monster trucking or bass fishing. Right. Then you're in hog heaven. So for the first little bit, that's what the zipper was used for. They were used for boots. They were using the military. There were tobacco pouches and I guess these little money belts, and they weren't used on clothes, though it took about 20 years for the fashion industry to come around and say, I think these beat the button in the clasp. Yeah. For a couple of reasons. One, these early zippers were not the best. They didn't work every time. They would wear out pretty quickly, and they were still rather expensive. This is like cutting edge technology. At the time, zippers were not cheap. But one of the other big reasons why zippers took a while to catch on, even after they started being used in menswear, was because they were viewed as improper for women, which I hadn't heard of. Had you? No. I mean, it doesn't surprise me, but it's hysterical and awful to think about the fact that they didn't initially want zippers because it made it way too easy for women to take their clothes off. Yeah. That would just be it like, oh, well, I can take my clothes off a little more easily than I could if these were buttons, so I'm going to become promiscuous as a result. Yeah. Just because that extra 30 seconds, the mood passes. Yeah, it's true. Well, yeah. I mean, if you have trouble getting buttons off, I could see getting frustrated, and that could kill the mood. So maybe they were onto something. Yeah. But in the movie set during this time, the toddy couple rips open the bodice and they all laugh as those clasps are falling to the floor. Yeah, it's true. Zipper is not as funny. No. But it does make a seductive purr when it's pulled down at just the right timing yeah. And the right speed. It's titillating. It's arousing. Yeah. There's nothing more titillating than a quick little zip it's open. Right. Like no. Or more of a man. You got to stop. Isn't that nice? Yeah, it's getting a little warm down here in the back. Yeah, I know. I'm glad we're not in the same room right now. So Corsets especially found the zipper. The corset industry was like, no way are we going to use those vulgar zippers on these things. We have morals. We're the fashion industry. There were even designers Elsa, Parale and Edward, they were sort of teasing the establishment by purposefully, including zippers, and saying, like, we don't even need these, but look, we're doing it anyway because it's the 1930s. Right. In your face establishment. That's right. Button establishment. Big glass. Right. One of the other big things that push things forward was the use of zippers and jeans. And to this day, there is a longstanding debate that I read about on the Levi's 501 blues blog wow. Between zippers and button jeans. And apparently there's purists who are like, buttons were first. They were on the first pair of Levi's back in 1873, I think, because they didn't have anything better, basically. Yeah. Zipper people say, well, yeah, and then zippers came along, and we didn't need buttons anymore. Stop living in the past, man. But there's still an ongoing debate and raising debate. But if you were to travel back to the 1930s and pick up a copy of Esquire magazine, you would find that the battle of the Fly, I believe is what it was called, was declared dead and that the zipper won was escar around back then. Oh, yeah, nice. Yeah. Cutting edge stuff. I am not opposed to a 501 button fly. I agree that it's kind of classic. I'm generally a zipper guy 100%, but I don't mind a button fly. Well, I was reading a recent Esquire write up about the 1930s. Esquire write up? It's kind of weird now I think about it. But they were saying, like, yes, the button does have some advantages. It's a lot harder to forget when you leave the bathroom than it is you fly, but it's harder to open up when you really need to pee. That's a big problem as an adult. You can kind of regulate that, right? No, not me. I have that brain bladder connection going full bore. Yeah, I guess I can see that. So, like, having to fumble with buttons while you're about to just pee yourself, it's not a good thing. But anyway, Esquire also put it like this. They said that the button fly also adds bulk, but not in the desirable spinal tap way. Do you have some sort of terrible condition way? It's pretty great. So I think that right there kind of wins the zipper debate. Yeah. Well, you know, the other thing that won't happen with a button fly is you're not going to pull something about Mary moment. Hey, we'll save that for the end. I'm just saying. All right, so in the 1930s, we've got children's clothing being a big sort of sales pitch for zippers, because they're like, hey, you want a kid that can put their own clothes on and get to that factory super fast? Right? Give them zippers. So I think that's pretty genius, actually. Yeah, he wants to buttoning up a child's clothing is the worst, right? Especially if you have to use a very dangerous button hook to do it. Yes. It's just not a good idea. You don't want to get that anywhere near a kid. So as is usual with fashion, the children's fashion leads the way and pave the way for zippers to come in. Like I said, the men's trousers. Eventually women's clothing and then women's jeans. Zippers were finally added to jeans because of women. Apparently, Western women were totally fine with the buttonfly, but back east, they were a little more modest and decided the button fly allowed too much breeze to blow through. And so Levi's added zippers to their jeans to try to market them to women. In the east, in the mid 40s, I'm surprised women were wearing jeans in the mid forty s. I was surprised by that, too. Smells like Catherine Hepburn's work, if you ask me. Put on those jeans, ladies. That was amazing. I used to do a pretty good Katherine Harbor. That was not my best effort. It's still pretty good. You all poop. So they went from producing the Hookless Fastener Company 24,000 zippers that first year in 1934, 60 million by 1971, at 2.3 billion. Yes, that is astounding. And by 1971, they had changed their name again from Universal Fastener to Hookless Fastener to now Tallinn. Make a note of that. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Put a little pin in that. Okay, so these were zippers that were and we have all the names. These were called closed in zippers. That is it's on a pair of jeans or something. It's not like you're trying to put together two completely unattached things, like a jacket, let's say. Right. That would be the next big thing. Yeah. There's actually, apparently three main kinds of zippers, which I wasn't aware of, but the ones, like on jeans or whatever, that's the close end. The ones separate, like on a jacket or something like that, that opens all the way. Those are open end. And then you've got the show offs of the zipper world. The two way zippers. Yeah. They think they're all that. Yeah. And there's, like, all sorts of subcategories, too. Like, for example, there's the two way closed zipper, where when you open the thing, you have to pull the zipper slides toward one another, and when they meet, they keep one another from sliding off or opening further. But if you look at the suitcase or whatever, it actually forms an X with the two zipper slides in the middle. That's an X type two way closed zipper in industry lingo. Yeah. And it's here that I should point out that something that I don't think I've ever talked about much on the show, but I'm a bag enthusiast. Backpacks, luggage, over the shoulder bags, messenger bags, merseyside. I do have a shout out to Nutsack. Merce. No, NU. T-S-A-C. Sure. It's great. It doesn't matter. No, that's the name of the company. Oh, got you. It's got a little acorn on the front of it. That's very cheeky, obviously, but I stand by my nutsack. It's great. Let me ask you, how did you end up becoming, like, a bad guy? I don't know, man. There's something about finding the perfect bag. There's something about all the compartments that fit just the right things. I don't know. I think I'm a little bit of an OCD spectrum thing that I've talked about here and there over the years with stepping on cracks and doing certain things in equal amount of times with each foot in each hand. I don't let it drive me or control me. Sure. But all that stuff is in there, and I think it has something to do with my bag thing. Is seeking out the perfect bag that holds all of my things in exactly the right way. Very nice. But I mean, when did this start? Was it like middle school, high school, college? I think I always was sort of into them but was happy to just have the backpack that was just okay because I was young and broke. But now that I'm an adult, I can try a couple of different bags out and I recycle them. I don't have a room full of bags. Emily will disagree and say that I have far too many bags and some that don't get used. But I did just recently sell a bag to a guy. Like how? Like on the street? No, I put it on Facebook, and it ended up going to a husband of someone I knew. He wants this thing. I was like, great. Anyway, I have a bag thing, and there's a sub category of people on the Internet, travel people that are really into bags and especially zippers. That's where this all comes in. There is a lot of zipper talk on these sites because they're not all designed well, and you got to have a really great zipper system in order to be a great bag. That is the thing that's one of the best, easiest ways you can tell a knock off bag, even a well made knockoff bag from the real thing is how good is the zipper? Yeah, I get the impression that really nice zippers aren't the cheapest things to include in a bag. No, because anybody can dash off a zipper. We could make one right now if we wanted to. Sure, it was arts and crafts time, but it's not. It's talking time. But we couldn't make a really well made zipper. No. And a complaint you will see oftentimes on these websites is travel websites is great bag, but boy, why did they put the zipper on this thing, right? And so, I mean, when you put a zipper on a bag or a pair of jeans or something like that, it is done. Like, there's not any redoing this thing. Like, if it's a good zipper, great. If it's a bad zipper, you just ruin the bag or ruin the jeans. And then once the zipper inevitably breaks, the bag is useless, the jeans are useless. And that's actually a mark in the favor of buttons. You can replace a button that pops off when the zipper breaks. Yeah, you can fix it. There's definitely videos on how to deal with different zipper issues, but when it's broken, broken, it's a problem. It's a lot more of a problem than when a button pops off, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, I agree. And here's the point where I'm going to call on you. Maybe we'll take a break. I knew you were going to do this. I am. Because you somehow made describing how a zipper works confusing. So this is on you, and we'll talk. Josh will explain exactly how zipper works right after this. Oh, man. Hey, summer is here, my friend. Which means school is out, the sun is shining bright, the days are longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. Yeah. Whether you're road tripping or you're relaxing by the pool, you can tune into the podcast here. It's on Amazon Music that's so good, it's criminal. Morbid. That's right. It's part true crime and part comedy. Morbid takes you on a journey through murderous mysteries and major laughs, all in the same week. Yeah. From the paranormal to the pretty spooky and everything in between. Hosts Selena Erkhart and Ash Kelly cover it all. And with two episodes released each week, you'll be hooked on this charttopping series before you know it. You can listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen. Today, Capital One offers commercial solutions you can bank on. Now more than ever, your business faces specific challenges and unique opportunities. That's why Capital One offers a comprehensive suite of financial services custom tailored to your short and long term goals. Backed by the expertise, strategy and resources of a top ten commercial bank, a dedicated team works with you to support your success and help you achieve your goals. Explore the possibilities at CapitalOne. comCOMMERCIAL. Want to learn about a terrorist orna color? Word up, Jerry. Let me think of some movies. Have you seen altered carbon? I know it's not a movie. It's a good TV show. I have not. That's good. I already talked about Ozarks recently, right? Yeah. Are you putting this off? Yeah. All right. I'll describe how to use a zipper because I didn't realize this before. Did you know just how a zipper worked? Sure. You did not. I did. You can look at it and tell how it works. Well, I've looked at plenty of zippers, and I guess it hasn't sunk in. I finally had to read what's going on down there. Magic. I thought a little magic wizard lived in each zipper slide and would be like, Alec is who. I think what you're saying is you didn't realize all those parts had names. Maybe. That's definitely part of it. But no, I also didn't understand the physics. I'm going to do this. Are you ready? Stand back. All right. So with every kind of zipper, you have teeth. And you put the teeth together and you have a zipper chain. You have the thing that moves up and down the zipper. That's called the slide. And the slide itself is usually made up of the slide body that the zipper teeth go through a bridge that's connected to the slide body and a puller or a tab that's connected to the bridge. Okay. Okay. So when these teeth are manufacturers we'll talk about in a second, they're made so that they're all the exact same size and shape. But then when they're connected, they're offset so that if you take two teeth in between the teeth, a little hole or hollow or valley forms, and the teeth on the opposite side of the fabric that's going to be connected. The tooth fits into that hollow just so, but it doesn't fit in just so, so that it could just pull right out. It has a little hook on the end of it. And so when the slide body comes in contact with the teeth on either side, it has, like, wedges inside the slide body that kick those teeth up at an angle or down at an angle, and it also pulls them together. So it actually takes the tooth and puts it at an angle so that it fits into the hollow between the other two teeth on the other side. And then as it passes by, that tooth goes back to horizontal, and it's locked in. The little hook on the end locks it into that hollow, and from being locked in, it provides stability for the teeth that are connected on either side, above it, and so on and so forth. So that as the slide finally reaches the top. It hits a stop. Which keeps the slide from going off the end. And it's done its little job when it comes back down. When you pull down on the slide to unzip. It actually uses a reverse wedge applied to kick those wedges back up and separate them so that they can easily hook. Tooth can easily pull out of the hollow and separate. And that, friend, is how a zipper works. That's great. Oh, I haven't pressed your court. I just went and had a mike's. Mighty good ramen. I had one of those, too. I had the kimchi one. I had the Pork. That was good, Chuck. If you hadn't checked out, I was frankly expecting a little round of applause. Oh, people are clapping all over the world right now. Good. Okay. So it is great. It's such an elegant design because what you're doing here and it's easy to take for granted, but what you are tasked with doing with making a quality zipper is making something that is very easy to zip up and down or back and forth, because you don't want that thing to get hung up or to be hard to pull. Right. It's got to be really easy, but it also has to be super secure. And the marriage of those two things, I think, is kind of really speaks to the elegance of the design of the zipper. Exactly. And the more well designed and well manufactured the teeth are, the tighter that bind is going to be because they fit together so precisely. Yeah. If you've had zipper problems and bad zippers, that's when you really need to thank your lucky stars that people are out there designing and making great zippers. Right. Which are just too expensive to easily be attained. Or like when that stop doesn't work and you go to zip up at that jacket and all of sudden, A, you're holding that pull tab in the bridge, right, like a dummy. There's actually little clamps that you can put on a zipper, a broken zipper. I saw a video about this that fit in between, like the top two teeth on either side. And then you just take some needle nose pliers and basically clamp it on the inside and outside of the zipper fabric tape, and that will stop that slide. So if the slide ever comes off, because one of the stops broke off, you can actually take not at all drastic measures to fix your zipper. Not me, man. I throw that jacket in the garbage, just set it on fire first. Release all the methane inside, I do, and then I sweep up the ashes, I urinate on them and I put it in the garbage. You turn it into a six pack ring and throw it into the ocean? No, that is a good tip, actually, because there are ways to darn socks and fixed zippers. And we live in a disposable society. So if you have a cheap zipper, or if you really like a jacket and it has a terrible zipper, you could take it to a place and they could probably put the zipper of choice on there. But that's a lot of work. It is a lot of work. There are things that you can do yourself. If the zipper slide is not doing a very good job any longer of connecting the teeth, it's probably because the wedges inside are a little loose, a little far apart. Again, needle nose pliers are your best friend. Pinch the zippers from the side and from the front and back, or not the zipper, the slide mechanism. Sorry. And it'll produce a tighter grip on the zipper teeth from that point on. Again, basically, you're breathing new life into your zipper slide. Yeah. And fail to mention that I'm also an outdoorsman and camper my whole life. So aside from my bag, fetish, sleeping bags and tents, that's a real big deal to have the right zipper on those things. Yeah. The worst is, and especially on tents, the design, such that when you're zipping it, the little flap gets zipped up in the zipper. Yes, it's pretty bad. It's awful. It is. And that's something you can deal with yourself. But zippers can also get stuck over time, especially if it's a metal zipper and it's starting to corrode. They don't like to slide nearly as much. There are little things, little tips and tricks you can do to unstick a zipper that's a little corroded. One of the first things you can do is take a graphite pencil and rub it on the teeth just below the zipper. And graphite is a dry lubricant, and it'll help you unzip it if the pencil doesn't work, try a little bit of bar soap, dry bar soap. Okay. And if that doesn't work, to spray a little squirt, tiny stream of windex on there and let it sit for a little while, and that should unzip your corroded or gunky zipper, too. Very good tips here from Uncle Josh. Right. So there's some other things. Like, we just basically describe how zipper works, what a zipper is made out of or what the components are. There are some other things that they make some little fancy dancy kind of accoutrement to zippers. One of the things that comes in handy is, say, like with a tent or something, when you want the zipper to stay up, is a locking slide to where it won't like, you could pull the zipper apart, and it won't come apart because that slide won't move. It only moves when you pull on the tab because it lifts the locking mechanism as you slide up or down. That's a good one. They also make magnetic zippers, which is good for one handed zipping and unzipping. It's amazing. I think so, too. So let's talk a little bit about how it's made, and then we're going to bring it home with a little manufacturing and medical action. Okay? Yeah. So zippers, it depends on what it's made out of, obviously, with how it's made. A lot of zippers, you'll see, are metal. They can be flat or they can be profiled. They can be made of aluminum, nickel, brass, nickel free, white, brass, white are you making fun of me? Nickel, aluminum, brassiminium, nickelodeon. I'm just reporting what I found on the Internet. I'm not making fun of you. They can be diecast out of zinc alloy directly onto that tape, and you end up just sewing that or gluing that onto the material. And I imagine that might be a bit of a more robust zipper. Yeah. That machine that Gideon Sunbeck came up with is still the design principle of it is still in use in some zipper manufacturers where they take wire and just, like, pinch and pull and clamp the zipper teeth out of wire onto this zipper tape the fabric that's going to be put onto the material that the zippers applied to you. That's right. If you're working with plastic, there are basically two main ways, and I saw really great how it's made. It's like five minutes long, but it just explains it all with plastic. There's a couple of reasons why you would want plastic. You can actually manufacture plastic to more precise design specifications if you're doing it right than metal zipper, which means that it may actually provide a stronger grip. It also doesn't corrode, although metal zippers are typically thought of as tougher over time, but they will corrode. Plastic doesn't corrode. But if you're making plastic, you can make it a couple of ways. One, you can make it basically just like a metal zipper is made by diecasting it. And then another way is to actually print it onto the tape. So, like, the whole zipper to the exact length you want is just basically formed and melted onto the fabric tape. And then there's your zipper, pretty much. It can be super solid. It's not like a plastic zipper. It has to be cheap. No. And then if you want a flexible plastic zipper, there's something called a woven coil nylon zipper. And you've probably seen this before, like, on a dress that's meant to have movement or something like that. It's almost like a nest of nylon woven on either side, and the zip code just moves up and down it. Wow. You've seen those before? I'm sure I have. Don't play me, bro. Most of my dresses require movement, that's for sure. So I think we should talk a little bit about YKK. If you've ever looked down and seen a zipper, chances are you have. If you've ever worn any article of clothing and seen YKK, that stands for Yoshida Kogi Kabushiki kasha. Wow. Which is a Japanese company that makes these where else? Macon, Georgia. Yeah. That's, like their biggest plan is in Macon. Yeah, and I knew it was in Macon. Actually, they make about 5 million zippers a day. They started making Zippers, the Japanese company, in 1934. They make theirs out of copper alloy, and they're really smart. This is a company that they build the machines that make the zippers. They build the boxes and make the boxes that they ship them in, so they have a lot of control over the pricing of their supply chain, which is a great way to make a lot more money than you would if you were outsourcing that stuff. Right, exactly. And so YKK kind of came up. They started in 1934, but by 1970, they really started to take over the zipper industry, so much so that prior to 70, a little company called Talent, which you might know of as the Hookless Fastener Company, had 70% of the market share. Seven out of all ten zip codes that you found in the world were made by Talend. And by 1971, suddenly YKK had, like, 40% of that, and they were the big kid on the block for decades until basically recently, when some Chinese firms started to really come up, too. Yeah, and the Chinese firms, there used to be hundreds of these, and they have now sort of been consolidated down to, like how many do they have over there now? About a dozen. Yeah. But there's really two big ones now SBS and YKK. Right. And a lot of these Chinese companies will be called things like YQQ or YCC, obviously trying to sort of rip off the YKK company. And it's like any business where there are some big, big players, there's fierce, fierce rivalries in the zipper industry. You said that when she was a kid, her mom wouldn't buy something if the zipper wasn't YKK. Sure. Quality zipper right there. Made by relatives of the Almond brothers, probably. That's right. That's where the museum is. So that's why YKK is found on most of your zippers, because of this company that has been doing this for a very long time. Right. Pretty amazing. And I feel like, Chuck, we would be remiss in talking about zippers if we also didn't talk about, as you kind of teased earlier, genitalia getting caught in zippers, which is one of the big drawbacks of zipper technology. Yeah. The very famous Seinfeld episode when he's remarking about his button flies. Do you want to do your best Jerry Seinfeld here? This is the one place on my wardrobe I do not need sharpent or locking metal teeth. Oh, I think you had seinfeld confused with Silence of the Lambs. Which one? Buffalo Bill or Hannibal Lecter? Seinfeld of the Lambs. Wait, let me see if I can do it. This is the one place on my wardrobe I do not need sharpening or locking metal teeth. Except he would not have a zipper on his kimono. Is that better or worse the second time? I don't know. They were both great. I think worse. I'm going with yeah. There are zipper injuries mostly with boys and men. There was a group in 2013 and Urologists in San Francisco that published an actual study about zipper injuries. And between 2002 and 2010, there were close to 18,000 men and boys who had had zipper accidents at the emergency room. With some variation of something about Mary type of injury. Yes. That's just the ones that were bad enough to go to the emergency room. Yeah. Not the ones that are like, let me just put some ointment on that. Right, but that's exactly the treatment that those guys got at the emergency room. Apparently, the treatment for it was described by a doctor, a pediatric doctor, who said, I'm just going to read this whole thing, okay? Yes. You want to just pour mineral oil all over the patient's genitalia and the zipper. Be generous. That's the key. This is pretty cheap stuff. Then let the patients sit there for 20 or 30 minutes, pack them in a room somewhere, and when you come back, the foreskin will have simply slipped out of that zipper. Although in some cases, you may need a cotton swab to help it along a bit. You know my favorite part of that whole quote, right? What it was when he's talking about how inexpensive mineral oil is right. Mineral oil. You can just afford to just douse your testicles with that stuff because it's pretty cheap. Right. This isn't like something Martin Kelly would invest in. What? Oh, God. Pharma Bro. Yeah. He would never buy into a mineral oil company. Not profitable enough. I guarantee he's trying to get rich off of Coronavirus. I think he's in prison again. He's probably got his minions. Yeah, probably so. Yeah. You can get your junk zipped up in there. I don't understand why a man would go commando. To me, the underwear is one of the biggest benefits, is to avoid zipper related injuries. But people do it, and I just imagine you've got to be super careful. Yeah, not just men, too. There were five women in that group of 17,616 emergency room visits. Five women got caught in there. But for young boys chuck, I thought this was the fact of the podcast. The number one cause of penile injury was not zippers. Zippers were second. Number one was getting smashed by the toilet lid. For real? They're right there at lid height, I guess. So I was forgetting about the height difference. Yeah. Okay. Sad, you got anything else? Four guys. I got nothing else. Well, that zippers, everybody. We made it through. Zippers is the new sun. And since I said zippers is the new sun, it's time for listener mail. This is from Kirsten. Not exclusively, but I like reading these emails about how we're helping folks out during this weird time of isolation. This is one of those. Hey, guys, thanks so much for the podcast. My boyfriend Matt introduced me to stuff you should know a while back, and it has been a godsend for our relationship. You see, on car rides and road trips, he always wants to listen to something that he will learn from. I, on the other hand, am much more interested in listening to something funny and light hearted. Your podcast strikes the perfect balance. Every time we listen to your show, we always laugh together and we both learn a little something, too. Kirsten, we've been trying to explain that in such a succinct way for twelve years now. Yeah, that was really well done. Matt works in the ICU and has been working long hours amid the coronavirus pandemic to pass the time alone at home. I've been listening to a lot of stuff you should know, so I want to thank you guys for keeping me company. And if you wanted to give a shout out to Matt and all of our amazing health care workers across the country, that would be awesome, and we certainly want to do that. Yeah, give it up like it's 08:00 P.m. For all of the healthcare workers, including Matt. That's right. Beyond everything that's going on with this, it's not like everyone decided to take a break from getting hurt and needing to go to the emergency room. Yes. Dude, have you been more careful than usual just to make sure you don't, like, accidentally need to go? No, I can't think about that stuff because that's when I will get hurt. I thought about it climbing up a ladder in my house. I don't know if I'd be doing any ladder work right now. I had to. It looked like there was a carpenter bee that made its way through our upper window. I had to look. Well, I'm glad you were careful, but yes, that kind of just hit me the other day that like, oh, wait, there's still all the other hospital stuff that has to happen right now. Yeah, it's true. I have a friend who's an or nurse, I believe, and she was saying that she'd been basically furloughed for the moment because any elective surgery was put on hold, which is understandable, but she was explaining that elective meant like, your gallbladder needs to be removed or you have a tumor that needs to be removed. It was considered elective, at least temporarily. I think that she's back at work again, but that's how bad it was. It was just like, if it doesn't have to do with COVID no, just say no. Yeah, I mean, I was just about to schedule an eye surgery, and I'm definitely going to wait a while to do that. Yeah, I can imagine. Well, that was great. Who is that from? That was from Kirsten. Matt yes. Well, thanks a lot, Kirsten, and thanks a lot, Matt. And thanks a lot to everybody who's fighting the good fight on the front lines of the healthcare battle right now, looking out for all of us, our hats are off to you. If you want to get in touch with us, like Kirsten and Matt did, we get in touch with us via email. Wrap your email up, spank it on the bottom and send it off to Stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is production of iHeartRadio's how stuff works. For more podcasts My Heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. You know you're a pet mom when you plan your vacation around your pet. At Halo, we get it because we're pet moms too. We make natural, high quality pet food that's rooted in science. It's the world's best food for the world's best kids. Learn more@halopets.com. The Neogen Device, developed by Rst Synthesis, is a well established, advanced quantum based medical device using electric cell signaling technology. Treatment is noninvasive, safe, effective, and used in managing pain associated with neuropathy and other painful conditions. It helps improve circulation, offers better rehabilitation through pain relief, and activates the recovery processes, giving better patient outcomes. Visit Neogenreliefspain.com now for provider benefits. About the Neogen System come chat with us. That's neogen relievespaincom your patience, will thank you." | |
How Police Chases Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-police-chases-work | Entire TV shows are dedicated to them and Americans love to watch a live one, but police chases aren't as routine as they seem. While police assert chases are important tools, critics say cops engage in chases too often and too easily. | Entire TV shows are dedicated to them and Americans love to watch a live one, but police chases aren't as routine as they seem. While police assert chases are important tools, critics say cops engage in chases too often and too easily. | Tue, 28 May 2013 14:33:37 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2013, tm_mon=5, tm_mday=28, tm_hour=14, tm_min=33, tm_sec=37, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=148, tm_isdst=0) | 25213043 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from houseoffworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. And there's Charles W choco Bryant. Who's? You know, someone on Twitter said that every time am, Chuck. Brian Giggles a baby bunny is born. Oh, really? Yeah, they meant it, too. Wow. I love being responsible for all that joy in the world. You're doing it, man. So I guess you just opened the show with you were being chased by a police car in Great Britain. You did a British sorry, I guess it was yeah. In the United States, we have different sounding sirens. Well, on these days, it's all kinds of crazy, like beeps and whistles. Yeah, it's like that's like an American police cruiser today. Wow. This one's getting off to a great start. Let's try to keep it on track, all right? On the evoc track. Yeah. This is in our long running law enforcement series. Yes. It's unequaled by any other topic except for death, I think. I think death might have it beat. Okay. Maybe not, though. We'll find out. All right, I guess go count them after this. Chuck, have you ever been in a police chase? Have you ever been the object of pursuit in a police chase? Yeah, I was not driving. I was in a car one time when my friend decided to run from the cops. Wow, lay it on us. Well, it was just one of those things. We were in Athens, and he made a very bad decision, and we got away with it. No way. Yeah. Well, see, that's something that I find extremely interesting, because I didn't realize until reading this article that there are very few circumstances where a cop should feel justified or would be justified in chasing you. Right, sure. But that said, there are almost no laws whatsoever restricting police chases. It's just weird gray area, and I actually found there's activists online who are saying, like, say no to police chases, like restrict police chases, like, create laws against police chases, because these things are deadly and dangerous. Yes. I think what, about 140 innocent civilians were killed last year? Yeah. About a person a day on average dies from a police chase, and about a third of those, but yeah, last year, 140 or just innocent bystanders. Yeah. I mean, that happened in Atlanta. That's happened in Atlanta a couple of times recently. One time, the trainer for the Atlanta Braves, he lost his wife to a cop smashing into her jeez. And then again, more recently, there was another case. I think it was a kid or something, but it was like, sort of in the news lately. Yeah. And I mean, you get the impression that and cops die, too. High speed pursuit is a high speed pursuing. That's dangerous for everybody involved, including the cops. But you get the impression that whatever the circumstances is just not pulling over for a cop trying to pull you over yeah. Is reason enough to get the cops hackles race enough to chase you. Yeah, right off the bat I think that would be any cops instinct is Gunned not like, well, let me check into his record and call my supervisor and see if they allow this, which a lot of times this policy now, as we'll see, there are procedures in place to kind of try to tamp down the emotion of the primary copy. Like departmental policy. Basically though, like you said, not law. Right. So let's talk about this. Okay. When you go through the academy and you get all your training, your gun training, you're hanging out with tackleberry and you learn how to make cool sounds like machine guns or like yeah. You spend about a week, probably a little less learning how to drive the car. Yeah. Sadly, only about two of those days are dedicated to high speed pursuit. Yes. Which apparently is an improvement over zero days, which is how it used to be in like the guess they just said good luck. Right. You should know how to drive fast. Right. If you're an old country sheriff, you probably ran moonshine. Exactly. Or your cousin does at least. Yeah, but there's a lot to it. Ed Grab and asks you the Grabster points out that in a high speed pursuit. A cop's car can be just as deadly as the cops gun and they need to know how to use it just as well and just as accurately because not only do you not have to know how to drive. You have to know how to drive fast while you're also turning on the lights and the sirens and calling in something. And all that other stuff has to be second nature to you so that you can focus on the driving while using just a minimal amount of your brain power on the other stuff. Yeah. So part of the car training is just that how to run a police car stuff because it's not like every other car. Right. And if you are being trained to drive in high speeds in pursuit of a suspect and they send you to Colorado, you can be reasonably assured that you're going to come back among the better trained police in the country because the Colorado State Police maintain a course, an emergency vehicles operation course that is the cream of the crop. Did you see like the aerial view of it? Yeah. They cover all the scenarios like on ramps and off ramps, high speed turns, intersections. They've really got all laid out there and put you in a scenario where as close as you could get to like an active street. Right. It's like there's skid plates where the coefficient of friction is 00:15 compared chuck, to say I'm just saying this off the top of my head, a coefficient of friction of like zero point 95 on a dry highway. Yeah. So that's slick. They need to know how to not spin out, basically. Yeah. And I think the exception is a really elaborate course like this. I think a lot of local police still use the parking lot in the cones in the back, which is an orange cone. Your doctor day, you put an egg on it. Like Brady Bun. I remember that one. Go, that was one of the greatest television shows of all time, the Brady Bunch. Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about pursuit equipment. Right. Basically what we just said was police training. You get a couple of days. Maybe if you're lucky, you get a few days on like, a really great course, maybe out in Colorado. For the most part. It's like, you know how to drive. Just drive really fast. Here's your Crown Vic. Yeah. The Ford crown Victoria is the most common police car, although they're using all sorts of different cars today. When you drive around, you'll see, like, those Dodge Chargers and the more souped up I know, I think in La. The state patrol had those Mustangs. Like they're really souped up sports cars. Apparently, they're getting away from Crown Victoria because that model of car had a big problem with it. Whereas if you were rear ended in a high speed collision, your car blew up. Yeah. Was that the Pacer that did that in the 70s? No, the Pinto. Pinto. The Ford Pinto. Again, the Ford had the opposite problem. If you collided with something on the front end, I thought it was the rear. I think it was the front. Well, let me tell you this either way. I learned about it from the movie Top Secret, where a Pinto just barely hits a tree front and blows up. And Ford ambulances for a while, we're blown up, too. Oh, really? Yeah. So Ford, with the police inceptor. Crown Vic created this chemical fire suppression system where right when you're rear ended at a high enough impact or forceful enough impact, this fire suppression thing goes off. So even if there's not a fire, there's not going to be a fire anyway. Right. But apparently it's enough that some people are like, yes, we're going to go with the intrepid. Right. You see a lot of Crown Dicks in Atlanta to like, just regular people driving them. It's like sort of a thing now. Yeah, it is. Like a little spotlight. Yeah. It's like, man, don't mess with me like that on the highway. So there are some differences, of course, between a police car if you think it's just a regular Crown Victoria, it is not, or whatever it is. A lot of times it does have more horsepower in the engine because they need that kind of juice. And they weigh more obviously, than your standard car because there's more guns and things. You're going to have, like, metal reinforced seat backs and things so you can't get stabbed in the back from the back seat. If you did shootings or anything if you didn't do a good job of checking for weapons. What else? Extra transmission coolers and oil coolers. Yeah, because I mean, bigger radiators cops, they don't turn their car off ever. That heat builds up. So they have, like, oil coolers and transmission fluid coolers. Bigger alternators to supply more power. Yes. Up to 130 amps, if that means anything to you. And lights. Well, and vinyl seats, though, in the rear. That's important. Yeah. You're never going to find cloth interior in the back of a police car because suspects are dirty. They're dirty. And oftentimes they will poop and vomit and bleed and just do whatever whatever bodily fluid they can get out in that police car. They probably will. So they want to make it easily. Get out the 409 and the paper towels and just clean it right there. That's grote. Yeah. Lights. Apparently they used to have them on the fenders in the they said, you know what, this is visible, but it's not as visible as if it were on the roof. Right. So they created what's known as light bar, which it was a little more recent than I thought. It was the 70s that these things made their debut. I thought back, I was like, oh, yeah, you never see, like, cars in the 60s or even early 70s with that light bar. So I was born at about the time the light bar came along. Yeah. I think you remember seeing the single siren sometimes for the double blue Dirty Harry we put on and do like a UI. Well, some were built in, but yeah, they also have undercover cars. That was one of the great parts of any cop movie when they got out the siren and put it on the roof. And now you can get them at Spencer's Gifts. Summer Blue and Summer. Some are blue and summer red though I've never known the distinction. I always thought ambulances were red and cops were blue, but in different cities. I've seen cops have red. Yeah, I think it depends on what side of the force you're on. Oh, really? Yeah, like how you're a Jedi or a one thing they can do to prevent the chase from happening altogether. You've seen the old spike strip. Yeah. They lay down these rubber mats with spikes all across the road. Or they have them like an accordion that you just kind of throw and hang on to one end and the other. That's the quick version. Yeah. And so that will obviously disable the tires. The good old fashioned roadblock that you see in movies actually happens. Sure. They line up cars and except in this version, there's not a conveniently parked tow truck ramp right beside it for the criminal to jump over everybody or bust through, I guess. But you have to be careful setting those up because normally the criminal is not going to try to push through the car. But they may try to go around. So you have to make sure that if you set up this roadblock, it's not like going to funnel them into somebody's house. Yeah. I don't think you do that in, like, a neighborhood. Right, that would be a good idea. You want to do it on a country road. And then modern techniques, which I think if they bring this stuff along, that's really where it's at. Like microwave technology to disable the electrical system of a car or shooting a laser. High speed avoidance using laser technology. Halt system. Of course. They left out a couple of letters there. Yeah, it should be to halt. That halt. It's not an acronym if you're leaving out words just to make it a cute word. Yeah, all right. It's like a Laotian last name, if they spelled it out correctly. So in that case, they're shooting a laser to cut off your fuel supply. But here's the rub there is the vehicle that they're shooting at has a special microchip in it? Yeah, I didn't look into that. Is it like, newer vehicles, all that's? My guess is that they're going to start putting these in all cars or something like they make some deal with. That would be fine with me. I mean, it's better than pursuing somebody. Absolutely. And then, of course, you have air support either in the form of a police helicopter or like 50 news helicopters. If there's a police chase out in California or the world's scariest police chase helicopter. Yeah, whoever those guys are, I think they just get footage from news copters and copcopters. Do you watch the shows I know I've talked about I've seen them before. Yeah. I don't know. It's one of my guilty pleasures. Do you watch this still? Yeah. I mean, it's not appointment television. I never know when or where they come on, but if I'm flipping it around and I'll see a police chase I lived in La. It's sort of a thing. It really is a thing, isn't? And apparently California has some of the most police protective laws as far as pursuits go. They happen a lot out there and everybody just stops doing what they're doing and watches the live coverage of it, sort of. Do you remember the guy who killed himself on live television after a police pursuit and showed it on Fox? I guess I saw that when it happened live. Yeah, I remember very distinctly. It was not like a movie. No. If you've ever seen someone shoot their head off with a shotgun in real life, it's nothing like it's not some big dramatic movie thing. It's just sad. Yes, it really was. Yeah, it was like he might have been making origami or something. Like it was just that pedestrian. It was just like he just had the gun and he pulled it up and shot himself. And he hunches over and just falls. It's weird. It was really weird to see it was very sad. And of course, all the kids that saw that, that's like, it's terrible. Yeah. So initially, if someone takes off, like you were talking about, the police officer that's on the scene has a decision to make to pursue or not to pursue. Lots of policies. One thing they want to do is run the tags. Is it a stolen vehicle where they just send an armed robbery, or is it just somebody who has a couple of traffic tickets out or nothing at all on their record? Apparently, the pursuit that enjoys the widest support around the country is if it's a violent criminal, someone who poses an imminent threat to somebody else, somebody who's just carried out a violent act and is escaping. Pretty much everybody says, chase that guy. Right. Like, if you said the person has a couple of traffic tickets, or if they have nothing and the only reason to chase them is that they didn't pull over for you, that is not reason to pursue. And yet 43% of all pursuits, and I believe 2011 were for traffic violations. Yeah. I feel for the cops. It's got to be their instinct, like, go get that person. They're fleeing me for a good reason. I get it. But when people are innocent, people are dying, there needs to be, like, some policy in place, for sure. And apparently, Chuck, 91.4% of cases were for nonviolent crimes. I believe that. So if the cop says, okay, this car just came back stolen, this guy just waived a gun, and it's a very clear case that he should pursue, go get them. There are other things to consider. Yeah. What's traffic like, what are the road conditions like? Is it rainy? Is it dark? Is it in a neighborhood? Pedestrians everywhere. Yeah. You might want to just kind of slowly tail the guy. Well, the one in Atlanta where they killed the trainer's wife. I think it was sort of a busy afternoon in an urban area. They shouldn't have been pursuing anyone at this point. Do you know what they were pursuing the person for? No, I don't remember. If they decide to go ahead and pursue, then this series of procedures kind of come into place. They need to be radio and back into headquarters. Yeah. Like, immediately. Right. And apparently every step of the way, or they just kind of keep whoever they're talking to their supervisor posted on what's going on. The supervisor's role is to keep a cool head because they're not the one who the person isn't pulling over for. So they're not mad. Sure. They don't want to crack heads. So their whole role is to say, you know what? You just told me that there's some pedestrians around. This guy's not a violent offender. Don't complete this pursuit, or we have chopper coverage to back off with the cars, and we can still follow this car from above. We're still going to get our guy right. Don't you worry about it. Yeah. One of my favorite things, if you watch the show Cops, you are well versed with the Pit maneuver. Please. I'm sorry? Pursuit intervention technique, also called the tactical vehicle intervention. And that is the famous move. If a cop has you'll hear them, they have to get clearance for the Pit maneuver even. Yes. I would imagine. They'll call it in and say, hey, I think I've got a chance for a Pit. Can I take it? And they'll say, if you feel like the streets are clear enough and you have to do it on a turn, you don't just, like, run up beside someone and run them off the road. It's when they enter a turn, the cop hits the gas and hits them on the left rear bumper and just basically spins them out. And it works if done correctly. And you get trained when you get the defensive driving on the Pit maneuver and they just spin out. Yeah. They can't come out of it. Can't come out of it. Your car spins. And that's generally on Cops, at least when the guys will jump out of the car, the car still rolling and take off on foot. Yeah. And then you hear these stops. They're Micked up. So all you hear is, like, running in the dark with all this gear on. You're like, man, what a crappy job. But you know, Chuck, your heavy breathing just reminded me of something. Is at that time, it's time for a message break. All right? Heavy breathing, indeed. So you're talking about the wildest police chases, that kind of show that you like, I don't know who would watch stuff like that? Grabster, takes to task, those kind of shows for presenting a very unbalanced picture of police chases. They don't show the cops backing off of a pursuit becomes too dangerous. They don't show the cops crashing into an instant bystanders car. Right. They never say, well, this cop probably shouldn't have pursued this person because this is a minor violation. Yes. And they always kind of tend to present the police in a favorable light. Yeah. I don't know if they're out to make well, maybe they are. I just think it's better TV, obviously, like, you wouldn't want to show and they're like, oh, no, it's just back off and go back to the stone. I get that for sure. Plus, also, they want to maintain the kind of relationship with cops, police departments. That where they'll give them their footage. Absolutely. Now the shows are good for the cops, I'm sure. I don't know if you can hear those people. Sounds like a police chase is going on outside right now. I think it is. This is really dramatic footage, Chuck. Do you remember the OJ thing specifically? Yeah. Where were you then? I was in college. Were you in college? Yeah. I remember, too. Of course, I didn't watch much of the chase. I remember the verdict? Yes. I remember the chase specifically because it was during the Nicks Rockets NBA playoffs. And my buddy Justin is a huge Knicks fan, and he was really upset, and he was just like, do you have to have it on every channel? And I agree with him. You're going to preempt the basketball game? It's on 100 channels. Isn't there one person out there that wants to watch the basketball game? Yeah. Really? What? The ratings would have gone through the roof, and that was a low speed chase. That wasn't even yeah, that was just weird. Yeah, well, low speed chases are very weird. I'm AC. It's just like, you know who I am. I'm not going to pull over. Yeah. So let's talk about the legalities of it. Right. Like we said, there's pretty much no laws that restrict police chases. They have the right to do that in all cases. Yes. And as a matter of fact, they don't even have to have their license sirens running to engage in pursuit. Yes. That's a fallacy. There are department procedures regarding police chases, though. But the thing is, even if a cop violates department procedure and continues to pursue, they're still not breaking any laws. Right. So. For example, in Washington, DC. You can only pursue if the suspect has engaged in a violent act, or someone could be seriously hurt if the suspect were allowed to escape. Right. In Des Moines, Iowa, no more than three cars can engage in a pursuit. Yeah, that makes good sense. It's a good rule. And you have to take into account the time of day, road and weather conditions, the nature of the offense, and the supervisor has to approve the pursuit. Right. And then in Florida, orange County, Florida. That's the Orlando area. Yeah. Are they the ones that have real restrictive policies? Yeah. And as a matter of fact, they found that after in the year after they enacted their restrictive pursuit policy, felonies in Orlando declined. Yeah. What's up with that? I don't know. One of those weird things. Yeah. There is also something called sovereign immunity, which is a government official is not liable for damages that occur while they're doing their job. Yeah. That's like old time common law. Yeah, old school. But these days, there are a lot of municipalities that have overwritten that law with other laws. And like, I think with the Georgia case, I think that cop was fired and brought up on charges. And I think they could even sue the police station. Yeah, but not overriding in overriding the sovereign immunity laws. Most departments or communities protect the cops individually, financially. But the institution can still be sued. Right. But they're not protected criminally. Like they can still be brought up on charges. They can't be sued. I think got you. Because I'm pretty sure this Brave guy, I think he went up on trial. Well, apparently if I'm wrong, then I'm going to eat crow. But in California, you're basically out of luck. If the cops mess up your storefront with their cars during a pursuit, their laws very much protect the cops from that. I would like liability insurance would help out, though. You would hope. But then your rates are going to rise. What were you doing? Nothing. You just happened to have a store in the wrong place in La. So that's police chase. Did you get anything else? I got nothing else. They seem way more dangerous than I even thought. And I thought they were pretty dangerous before. Yeah, don't support those TV shows. People don't listen to me. Glorifying, Chuck. Yeah, do as he says, not as he does. That's right. If you want to learn more about police chases, you can type those words into the search bar, how Stuff works. And since I said search bar what is it, Chuck? Is it time for listener mail? It normally would be, but I do not have a listener mail prepared. Instead, we are going to have a call out, which we do every now and then. A couple of things that help us out, people in our job with your free podcast is if you go to itunes and you leave us a review and a rating, that helps us out. So we would invite people to do that. And I know we always mention our home on the web is Stuff. You shouldn't come, but we really would like to send people there to check it out. And we've got like videos and blogs and image galleries and some really cool animated stuff. And it's like, I'm proud of this website. It's a great website, it really is. And I know some of you have supported it and we would like to ask others to go out there and check it out and leave us a review on itunes and check out the website, check out Stuffiestoe.com. And thank you, and we'll be back with listener email next time. And also, why don't we take a second to plug our Kiva team? Yeah@kivaorg, it's Kivaorg team stuffyshnot. You can join the Stuffyhhno team and donate to entrepreneurs around the world in developing countries. Not donate, Lynn. That's right. I'm sorry. If you want in $25 increments, and you can reload or you can get it back or whatever, but it's a really great program and we're marching on toward the $2 million goal, right? $2 million, we're hoping by August, I believe. Yeah. So that's kiva. Orgteamstepyshonowandstepyshno.com and itunes. Thanks for the support. If you want to get in touch with us, you can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on Facebook. Comstepynow. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@discovery.com. And again, like Chuck says, go to our website, stuffyouw.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetepworks.com. With over 1000 titles to choose from, audible.com is a leading provider of downloadable digital audiobooks and spoken word entertainment. Go to audiblepodcast comnostuff nowstuff to get a free audiobook download of your choice when you sign up today." | ||
Who were the first Americans? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/who-were-the-first-americans | Columbus is often touted as the "discoverer" of the Americas, he wasn't the first to set foot on American soil by a long shot. Tune in as Josh and Chuck dig deep into the history -- and mystery -- of the first American inhabitants in this podcast. | Columbus is often touted as the "discoverer" of the Americas, he wasn't the first to set foot on American soil by a long shot. Tune in as Josh and Chuck dig deep into the history -- and mystery -- of the first American inhabitants in this podcast. | Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:37:48 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2009, tm_mon=10, tm_mday=8, tm_hour=15, tm_min=37, tm_sec=48, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=281, tm_isdst=0) | 28822280 | audio/mpeg | "You want your kid eating the best nutrition, right? And by that, we mean your dog. Halo Elevate is natural sciencebased nutrition guaranteed to support your dog's top five health needs better than leading brands. Find Halo Elevate at Petco pet supplies plus and select neighborhood pet stores. US. Summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good it's Criminal Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, Morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Erkart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this chart topping series will have you hooked before you know it. Listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me, as always, is Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Which means that you're listening to stuff you should know. All right. This is Straight Ahead, as you've been in a long time, my friend. Yes. Very nice. Thanks. You think? Yeah. I try to mix it up every once in a while. Consider it mixed. Thanks. I will. As a matter of fact, from this point forward. Chuck, quick. Who discovered America? Christopher Columbus. That's wrong, Chuck. Yeah. Even if you qualify it by saying, what European discovered America. Right. Columbus was beaten by a good 500 years by the north who were in Newfoundland. That's not what we were taught in history. Definitely elementary school. There's no Norse Day. No, that would be awesome. Actually. No leaf. Ericsson Day, I don't think There is. Not in the US. And there's also evidence that the Norse were beaten by a good 500 years by an Irish monk who used a rowboat to make it from Ireland over to North America. Wow. And he wrote about it. The Tenacious Monk. Was that his name? Yeah, that's what I would call him. Yeah. Well, yeah, at the very least. Or if not the completely insane monk. Right. The foggy monk. He came back and wrote about it and drew some maps, I believe. He draws some maps. He draws some maps. And so there is some sort of evidence that he made contact with these people. Apparently, the Norse described meeting people who were dressed like monks that they had met. This guy might have come over and been like, you guys are dressed all wrong here. We need to church you up. Right. They didn't pillage as well as the Europeans did, though, in Columbus. And the single Irish monk yeah. I'm pretty sure he felt outnumbered. Yeah. So if you qualify, what European discovered America? There's debate right there. There's evidence that the Chinese beat Columbus by 70 years, I should say there's some evidence that's highly questionable. And also, by the way, you can read an article I wrote on the Irish monk and an article I wrote on the Chinese beating Columbia Wonder. You know all this stuff. Yeah. Did you ever hear the Louis CK? Vet on Indian giving? No. You want to hear it? Yeah, it's awesome. He's talking about basically the Indian giving is probably the most offensive thing you can say on earth because it implies that they gave us the land and that we wanted it back and they wouldn't give it back. And he's talking about the settlers coming over and saying, can we have everything? And the Indians said, well, we don't really have we just use it and enjoy it and share it. And then we started killing everybody. That's like a nice thing. And the Indian says, Dude, if this is what have is, can we not do that? It's really good. I love that guy. He's great. And because Chuck just paraphrased everything, that's not copyright infringement. No, I don't think so. Okay, so, Chuck, we've clearly ruled out Christopher Columbus as the discoverer of North America, right? Yes. Who did discover North America, though. You have to ask this question. Let's say Columbus comes over, he thinks he's in India and he shows up and he's like, hey, you guys are Indians, but you look a little crazy. And finally comes to realize that he's not in India. That he's just discovered this new place. Right, but that immediately begs another question that I'm sure it took a little while for people to come up with because they were so excited that they just discovered this whole new landmass. An awesome landmass. Yeah, the best landmass. But the question had to eventually come up, like, wait a minute, where did these people come from? How did they get there? How did they get there? For millennia, there was a theory, a widely accepted theory in both the public and scientific lives of spontaneous generation, right? Like, just if you put less meat out too long and it started to rot, flies showed up. So rotting meat gave rise to flies. The same with moldy grain giving life to mice. Right. Generally, people thought that there was a life force that could spontaneously produce life and that some inanimate objects were associated with giving rise to certain animate objects. Right. And that was the case in North America, they theorized. I don't know that. Right? But in 1864, Louis Pasture definitively proved that there was no life force that gave rise to life. That if you sterilized a broth and put it in a flask and kept it sterile, life didn't spontaneously originate. Right. So he definitively disproved it. So if people did think that the Native Americans in north and South America and Central America did spontaneously generate past year prove that that wouldn't have happened. So question where in the name of God did these people come from? How long have they been there? That's an awesome question. I love this article. I thought it was really interesting. Thanks. The Clovis. Well, yes, that was the first theory that well, not the first, but it was widely held for quite a while. Yeah. Actually in the first couple of decades, actually in Snow eight, there was a terrible flood in southern New Mexico, and it killed a lot of people, a lot of cattle, which in southern New Mexico, cattle and people were on par. And it also washed up a bunch of weird artifacts. A lot of weird, clearly. Indian spearheads, arrowheads, that kind of thing. And was this in clovis? It was near Clovis Bolton, and I believe it was the first site that they found. Correct. So people started kind of collecting these things, and word got out that you could find inexplicable or uncommon spearheads. Yeah, very New Mexico spearheads, as it turns out. Yes. The Clovis point. Yes. That's not what it was called yet people were just like, look at this crazy thing. Right. That's what I think they called it. Right, sure. And then over the course of the next couple of decades, more and more archaeological research was done. A guy named Ridge Whitman. Ridge Whitman? Yeah. Isn't that cool? Like 1920s name. Now he's just a dude in New Mexico. He found one of these very characteristic spearheads in the bones of a bison. Right. So things are starting to come together. Sure. The tipping point is reached, as Malcolm Gladwell would put it, in 1932, when the state of New Mexico was digging a highway and they started excavating near Clovis. Right. And just found a whole trove of stuff bones, beer heads, the whole shebang. Yes. It really gave us a lot of info. And a guy who was excavating nearby, dr. Edger B. Howard, he was excavating for mammoth bones in a cave nearby. See, the guy was all mad because they moved the spear points. That was a different guy that had happened about ten years earlier. Got you. Tell them about that because it's significant. It demonstrates the mentality that's going on at the time. Yeah, they found some spear points, and I guess they picked it up or something, which is like a crime scene. You're not supposed to touch anything, evidently. And he came up on the scene and he started pitch little hissy fit. Because it's out of context now. It doesn't really tell us that much. It was and pretty much the guy who ruled on whether or not archaeological evidence was archaeological evidence. I can't remember his name, but he worked for this misonian is a physical anthropologist. He said, Sorry, they touched it. I didn't see it. It could have been placed there. I'm not accepting it. Right, but they found something later and left it intact. Right. Ten years later. Yes. And this is when all of it starts to take off in 1932. Right. So all of a sudden, they figure out that these beer points had never been seen before anywhere else. They have no idea where these things came from. They just knew they were very old because, like the bison bones that they were found within, it was an extinct bison and had been extinct for about 7000 years. All of a sudden, it's becoming clear that these people predate any settlement that we've been aware of. Right. Or known as Native American or Paleoindians. Look at you. Yeah, well, I have a minor in anthropology. Sure, of course. So all of a sudden, people are saying, okay, well, these Clovis were the first Americans. And in the 50s, when radiocarbon dating came about, that proved definitively that these people were old, as old as you would think 11,200 years ago is what they dated at. Yeah. And how do you do that, Chuck, with radiocarbon dating? All right, well, what they do is they actually take soil samples, something to do with the isotopes. Right. And the soil strategy. Right. They measure the age of the carbon isotopes, the C 14 carbon isotopes present in the soil right. Around the artifact. Right. And the artifacts have to be laid out in a certain way. Like, there can't be evidence that it was buried humans. When we make a camp or when we did 12,000, 10,000 years ago, when we made a camp and just left it, there were very telltale signs. Right. So things weren't buried. They're just kind of laid about right. Of what was going on there when they were extinct or whatever. So if that's how the site is presented, then you can measure the soil and say, okay, well, the carbon isotopes in the soil are 11,000 years old. Right. That means that this site was above ground and just left 11,000 years ago. Right. So that proved that the Clovis were around 11,200 years ago. Right. Yes. Which is old and definitely pre Native American. So how did they get here? Well, the Clovis first camp, which was it sounds to me like they're a very angry bunch of people. They eventually are very protective. At least they came to be called the Clovis Police. Yeah, I like that name. I wonder if the Clovis, New Mexico police like it if they're like that's us. Dude. Or the Clovis barrier. They created this clovis barrier. Basically anybody who had any other competing theory or idea was an idiot, and they had lockdown on the academic view of the origin of life in North America. So getting back to your question, where did they come from and how did they get there? The general theory was that they basically walked during the middle of the Ice Age, which I can't imagine living during an ice age. Could you imagine, like, crossing the bearing was it called the Bering Strait bridge? The Bearing land bridge. The Bearing land bridge is how they got here, supposedly, which is only about a mile wide and is now beneath the ocean of the Bering Strait. And that's how they migrated from Siberia to, I guess it would be like Canada and Alaska in Alaska and then found their way down to, eventually, the southeastern United States. And because of that so they walked here. There was actually a very brief as far as the timeline of history goes. There's a very brief moment in history where the Bering Lambridge was exposed and where the Laurentide ice sheet that covers, like, northern Canada and Alaska did at the time was receded enough to allow passage between it and a nearby glacier. Can you imagine how scary that was, though? I imagine it was kind of scary. But it was only a mile wide, though. It's not like it wasn't a pleasure walk. It wasn't a stroll. No. You raised a good question. Like, why would you do that? Sure. Why? Food. Food, exactly. Mastodon, baby. Your favorite band, the club Mastodon and the woolly mammoth. That was the theory, is they were dependent on these animals as they're one of their sole sources of meat, I guess. Right. It was very clear, based just on their spear points and their arrow heads, the Clovis were extremely advanced big game hunters. Yeah, they were hafted, which I had to look that up. It's actually when they attach something to a handle, so it's either attached to a bow or a spear shaft axe handle. Right. And that means you can throw it. Yes. Or shoot it, which is how you need to kill a mama if you can't just walk up to it and stab it. You also need a lot of coordination, planning, cooperation to take down a mammoth, a mastodon, or one of these extinct bison. And also, I read the point was made like they were definitely big game hunters, but they would take small game two or medium sized game, like deer antelope or whatever. That's what I wondered, because they've made a big point about the fact that one of the reasons they may have become extinct was that the mammoth and mastodon were overhunted. Chuck, you have just brought everything to the fore, the Pleistocene overkill hypothesis. Yes. Chuck, what this is and this is one of the reasons why the Clovis barrier was so supportive right. And so able to just lock down academia, was because it was a cautionary tale about ecological collapse. Right. But I don't get that. Not every animal they couldn't have overhunted every animal just because they overhauled the macedon and the mammoth. Why not skip down to the lower, smaller animals? That's an excellent point. That's something that's a question that hasn't been satisfied by or wasn't satisfied by Clovis police. Sure. They basically were saying the Clovis came down from they came across the land bridge from Siberia, down through North America, got to the Great Plains, overhauled the mastodon, the bison, and followed them around wherever they landed. Right. Sure and killed them off. And eventually that led to the extinction of their own kind. Because what's really interesting and curious about the Clovis is they appear out of nowhere in North America and actually, like, south and eastern North America and clearly New Mexico, and over the period of 500 years, they pop up out of nowhere and they disappear into the ether. They just show up and they're gone. There's no evidence of any technology leading up to them. Like, you can't see a progression of fluted spearheads that shows, like, these people are figuring out how to make the Clovis point, and then you don't see any refining of it or continuation of it after this 500 year period. So these people, if you're looking at it just on the timeline of history and archeologically, they pop up in the middle of North America out of nowhere and then just disappear. Pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, maybe they were aliens. It's entirely possible. Chuck there is another theory, though, about why they may have vanished. The Clovis comet theory. It's also called the Younger Dryas Impact Event, and this is just a few years old. Some people theorized that a comet exploded above the Earth's atmosphere around the Great Lakes and basically caught most of North America on fire. Sweet. And not only killed the mastodon and the mammoth, but the Clovis. And there's a little bit of evidence of this. They found a charred, carbon rich layer of soil at 50 different Clovis age sites, and it contained a bunch of unusual stuff in it that they interpreted as like, an impact event. Is that the scientific term for that stuff? Unusual stuff? Unusual materials, yeah. Like what? Unusual materials? Don't ask me that. Like, stuff that you would find in a comment. Stuff that would indicate there was an impact event, I guess. Like a meteor impact landing, stuff like that. That's awesome. But that's been refuted, too. That's why I love all this stuff. There's all these theories that make sense, and then some other person comes along and poke holes in it, and then you're back at square one. All right, but that's not how it went with the Clovis barrier. Like, it was fact as far as anybody was concerned. You had radio carbon dating, right. You had no other evidence of any earlier settlement in the Americas at all. And anybody who put forth a hypothesis other than that was poopooed. And they were very successful at controlling the origin of life in North America or in the Americas for several decades. And then they gave it up and became scientologist, right? Yeah. Until 1975. That was the beginning of the end of the Clovis first theory. Yeah. Sadly, maybe not, because really, the whole reason that you're looking, the whole reason you're spending decades excavating a single site is to find out the truth. We have to know who is first. We have to know. See, I'm not in that camp. I know you made a point in your article. That's not really that important. Who was first? Wasn't that just, like, such a hippie in everyone afterwards? Yeah, we should respect the Clovis, man, just because they weren't first. They gave us the half did fluted, spear. Yeah. I was listening to Hands Across America the whole time I was writing this. So are we going to down south? Let's go down south, Chuck. To Monte Verde? Yes. Okay. Chile. Yeah. Well, one of the early theories of the Clovis is that they migrated from south to north. No, north to south. They came down originally, but didn't they later go on to say but wait, it looks like they went from south to north. That's what Monteverde did. There was a University of Kentucky archeologist named Tom Dillahay who dedicated 25 years of his life to a single settlement in Chile, outside of Monteverde. Chile. What a loser. But this guy managed to quietly and methodically destroy the Clovis first theory. I know. And even better, he brought the Clovis police down to Chile after he presented his final findings and said, yeah, that was a sad day for the club as police. I think it was. And to turn in their badges and their uniforms and their little billy clubs. Yeah. They all retired and went fishing in Florida. So what happened, Chuck? What did Delahay find in Monteverde? Well, he found that predated him irrefutable evidence is another way to put it. Well, that's the non cursing way to put it, sure. So you want to know what they found? Yes. They found hearts of wood with knotted strings attached, which was no accident. It meant that a human being tied some string around it. Well, not only that, they also found leftover mastodon flesh. Oh, really? Preserve this is what Monteverde is. Just so this is how archaeology advances? By leaps and bounds? By accident. Monteverde, the site is a bog, and it actually preserved this wood string. Mastodon flesh preserved it beautifully because it's an oxygen depleted environment. And it was twelve, 500 years old. That's what radiocarbon dating showed. So, first of all, you have the fact that it's clearly these hearths, the knotted string, all the stuff. It was clearly presented in a way that this was a settlement. It was a camp. They estimated it housed, like, 20 to 30 people. Even, like, the tent pegs are left in the ground. That's pretty cool. So it wasn't buried right. It was just left. Right. And then the radio carbon dating proved that, yes, it was 12,500 years old. So they had a good millennium on the Clovis. It still doesn't answer how they got there. No, it doesn't. As a matter of fact, it raises even more questions, because what the Clovis police said was, well, okay, that's fine, that's fine. We'll give you Monteverde jerks. But how'd they get here? This is one thing that was never addressed with the Clovis by the Clovis police is why weren't there any evidence of Clovis settlements along the way from Siberia to Canada, alaska to the southeast, the Great Plains? There aren't any, because if you come down Alaska and Canada into North America, you hit the Great Plains, and, brother, there was really good hunting around there 10,000 years ago. You're going to have campsites, you're going to have some evidence. There was nothing like that. Is that possible? It is totally possible. I think that's how the Clovis first theory was able to stand for so long, is because maybe we just haven't found it yet. Whatever. But this Monteverde theory turns it on its ear. Sure. Because instead of from north to south, it suggests they went from south to north, and it was 1300 years older. Yeah. But I like your theory of how they got here. It's not a theory. It's not my theory. It's a hypothesis that other people have suggested. Because the same thing happened in Australia. Right? Yeah. Well, possibly. Think about it. Australia has been a continent, unattached continent, for 50 million years. Yes. They believe archaeologists, anthropologists believe that the Aborigines in Australia got there about 600 years ago, which means they would have had to have parachuted in or come by boat or swam. Yeah, I think boat is the most plausible. And it definitely islands along the way that you could stage. Yeah, you can island hop over there. There's some pretty horrible journeys along the way. Sure. But it's entirely possible. Right. And the theory is that same thing could have happened to the folks in Monteverde. It's true. Or the other way to look at it is there's a lot of people who still believe that they came from a north to south migration pattern, but that they just came a lot earlier. So they went north to south and then back up. Okay, that makes sense. It does. The fly in that ointment is this there's another site found in Monteverde that is being excavated now? I'm pretty sure. Delahay was like, I'm out. I'm out. I did my thing. You guys take this over. It's been 25 years. Yeah, but they found another camp nearby, or evidence of more human activity nearby that's dated to about 330 years ago. Which turns this on its ear. Yeah. So does that hold to the theory of the waves of migration that you were talking about in the article? I don't know. I've also heard there's a lot of archeological sites that are underwater right now. They're sure? Oh, yeah. Because once the Ice Age has ended, the water levels rose, and who knows what's underwater along our coasts? Right. And there could be definitive evidence that they came by boat. We have no idea. Ultimately, we just know that the Clovis weren't the first people here, although and how they left, why they vanished, still don't know. It's very interesting, but it looks like people in Chile 33,000 years ago, which goes to prove Columbus did not discover America full circle. What does it all have to do with me and you living here in Atlanta today? Nothing. On clovis ground, potentially. It has nothing to do with us. Were they in Georgia? They said Southeast and Carolina. So we're just a couple of slubs here in 2009. Yeah. And you ask, really? Other than the pursuit of knowledge, other than the pursuit of definitive truth. Right. It really doesn't apply to us. But it is fascinating, and there's nobody to say that it's not. I think you could argue that all of archaeology is I'm not saying pointless because I think it's fascinating, but what are you doing besides trying to find the truth? And there's value in that. Sure, there's definite value in it, but it's not like they're going to find some ancient cure for cancer. Or will they? I don't know. We'll find out. They'll keep digging. In the meantime, because I got to tell you, Chuck, most archaeologists could care less with you. And I think about their field. I'm sure we'll get some emails about this. Well, since I just said most archaeologists could care less, that means it's time, Chuck, for oh, yeah. If you want to read this article, you can type clovis into the handysearch bar@houseoffworks.com, which now means it's time for listener mail. So, Josh, before we have listener mail, okay, we want to talk about something we're excited about. I'm excited about a lot of stuff you're going to have to specify. Don't switch off your podcast here, people. This is really good. You recall during the micro lending episode sure. We talked about an awesome website, kiva.org. Right. Kiva. And that is where you can donate money, $25 minimum, to satisfy these microloans for needy people all over the world. Needy entrepreneurs. Needy entrepreneurs, yes. It's not a charity like you're going to fund their enterprises, so if you haven't listed that episode, give it a listen. And we found out through Kiva, you could start a team. And then we started searching around and found out Denmark has a teamMark. Has a team. A lot of corporations have gay, lesbian, and bisexuals have a team? Sure. Who else? Well, the Colbert Nation. Stephen Colbert has a team. Oh, that's right. And we saw that and we thought, hey, they're lame. They're not raising much money. No, there's like 100 members, last time I checked, and they've raised, like, six grand, which I guess is pretty good for 100 members. But I think we can top that. We can definitely top that. And we have people that write in and talk about the fact this is a free podcast and they wish there was something they could do. Well, now you can go to Kiva.org, join the stuff You Should Know team under Community. Sign up and join the team and start donating, and we can start satisfying some of these loans. I love satisfying things. We'll keep up with this through the blog and kind of let people know how many loans we satisfied and we're going to keep our eye out for Colbert. Yeah. This is not going to be some throwaway, poopoo idea that we came up with and forgot about. Colbert we're in this for the long run. Boom. We're going to put it on the blog, and we want The Stuff You Should Know Team to satisfy these loans. And you can get paid back. That's the cool thing. You can give $50, and if you want, once the loan is repaid, you can get that money back. Yes, you can take it and run or buy some donuts with it, or you can reinvest it, or you can just donate it to the Kiva Foundation as a whole. Either way, you're helping people in the developing world again fund their own enterprises in an effort to become self sufficient for a lousy $25 plus. You're, like, a hair's breadth away from Mohammed unit, right? I mean, he's right there next to you. So go to Kivaorg, check out the stuff you should know team and join up. And we're going to keep up with it on the blog and through the podcast, and we will shame you if you haven't joined. Chuck, this is a great idea. Thank you, Chuck. It was a really good idea, man. All right, so now listen or mail. I'm going to just do this one since we're short on time. You ask people to write in after the bouton. Gross National Happiness. Yeah, we've gotten a lot of good responses from that. Everyone who's written in has this nice mellow, even Keeled. Yeah. Nobody's been like, Help me, right? Especially this guy. I like, Chris. Chris says, in answer to your request, for someone who has left the rat race of the American money chase, I think I qualify. I live on a commune. In a commune? I thought it was on. He lives in a commune and files taxes under the IRS code 501 D, which I don't even know what that is. I've only heard of 501 C three. It sounds like some sort of a hippie thing. Yeah. I've lived in this commune with my wife for close to 15 years before moving in. I grew up in another commune whose income was solely based on donations. So all in all, you could say I've always lived with a yearly salary under $10,000. Ma'am. Am I happy? I'd say yes. I find lots of ways to have fun and live hand to mouth. You never really know what you can live without until you rid your life of stuff. When I host visitors at our place, it pretty much blows people's minds. My wife and I take up three rooms in our building. We try to make the most of our space and not hang on to extra books, clothes, et cetera, for too long. Your show and happiness and. Money. Your show on happiness and Money asked some good questions. I'm a regular listener. And then he signed off. Peace, Chris. Peace, Chris. So you left out his Michelle Shock quote. He has a quote from singersongwriter Michelle Shock, who apparently once said, if you ever want an adventure, live without cash. That is an adventure. Yeah. Well, thanks for writing in, Chris. Dirty hippie. Thank you to everybody who took time to write in about dropping out of the rat race or just never joining in some cases. And let's see. Chuck, do you want to hear about anything specific from people for this week? No, I want people to go to Kiva.org and join our team. Yeah, how about that? Why don't you write in and let us know if you've joined, if you see anybody that you think we should focus our attention on. Let's do all things Kiva this week. Yeah. Send it in an email to me and Chuck and Jerry at stuffpodcast@howstuffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstofworks.com. Want more housetofworks? Check out our blog on the Hastofworks.com homepage. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 camry. It's ready. Are you? Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school's out, the sun's shining, the daylights longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing Poolsite, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgarra and Georgia Hardstark, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. You know you're a pet mom when you plan your vacation around your pet. At Halo, we get it because we're pet moms, too. We make natural, high quality pet food that's rooted in science. It's the world's best foods for the world's best kids. Learn more@halopets.com." | ||
Jealous much? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/jealous-much | All of us have experienced the feeling of jealousy at some point or another. But why do we get jealous? Are women really more jealous than men? Josh and Chuck get to the bottom of jealousy in this episode. | All of us have experienced the feeling of jealousy at some point or another. But why do we get jealous? Are women really more jealous than men? Josh and Chuck get to the bottom of jealousy in this episode. | Tue, 26 Oct 2010 15:45:41 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2010, tm_mon=10, tm_mday=26, tm_hour=15, tm_min=45, tm_sec=41, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=299, tm_isdst=0) | 44666678 | audio/mpeg | "Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Welcome to stuff you should Know from housetop workspcom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me at as always, is Charles W. Chuck Bryant, who better not be podcasting with anybody else behind my back. Are you? You didn't hear about the truck and truck show? Who's the other truck? It's me. You're doing it with yourself? Yes, but I do your voice. That's cool as me. That's fine. It's sort of weird. It's obsessive, like theater acting, sort of fantasy league thing. Am I the dummy in it? Like, are you just warm jump. I figured you did that in your underwear in the mirror every morning. Anyway, miracle. It's really good. And the numbers, like, we're rivaling our own show now. People love it. I'm surprised it hasn't overtaken it yet. Wait, it's that one. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that was you. There's probably people out there like, oh, my God, I got to hear this. Let's get to it, shall we? Enough of this riff raff crap. Enough. Okay, Chuck, are you ready? Yes. October. This month is National Applejack month. Okay. National Pickle Peppers Month. Nice. National Breast Cancer Awareness this month. Did you notice the Delta stewards and stewardesses pink everywhere? I love it. Yeah. It's National Mental Illness Awareness Month. National Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual History Month. And just so happens that we're recording this on Pride Weekend, which makes sense. It is National Country Ham Month. Really? There's a lot of october is a big month that kind of overshadows. Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Yeah, it depends on the country. Ham, I would say. And then, I guess, most apropos of this podcast, which I wasn't aware of, but I don't think you were either. It's National Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Really? Yes. And I say it's apropos of this podcast because this is a podcast on jealousy. Jealousy is one of the more widely recognized triggers of domestic violence. Did you know that? I did not, but it makes sense. Sure. According to a 2003 alliance study in relationships that were domestically violent, it was male on woman domestic violence. And there is such thing as the other way around. Oh, sure. Women who were abused. As long as it was attended by jealousy, it was perceived by the battered woman as less negative. Not deserved, but less negative, really, than nonjealous violence. Interesting. Yeah, which is very interesting. And it's really weird because it kind of goes it speaks to our perception of jealousy. It's a weird, undesirable, unflattering emotion, and yet it also shows we care in certain ways. Right. Clearly, domestic violence is far beyond any level of caring, but it can even spill over that far. The idea that jealousy equals caring, it can reach violent levels. That is one of the more messed up things I've heard in a long time because I can hear the scenario of, well, he was just jealous because I was talking to that guy at the bar, which means he loves me, which is, like, that's so messed up. It is very impressive because I, Josh, am of the belief before we get started here's, chuck's opinion rant. What's? Here, man. These are the two things that Chuck says about jealousy. This is not backed up in any scientific way. I believe that, A, there is no place in jealousy in any healthy relationship. In the article, it says, like, jealousy can be good as long as I don't agree. B, because of that, I think jealousy pops up when there are trust issues, should never be trust issues. When there is an unhealthy dependence on one another, it should never be that. And when one or both of the parties is really insecure with each other. I disagree. All right, then I don't disagree to, like, a polar opposite degree, but I did agree with the article where it says toward the end, the psychologist that was interviewed for this article suggests that a certain degree of what's called normal jealousy is healthy. I don't think it's possible to have a relationship that doesn't have some sort of trust issues. You're looking at it. I have zero trust issues. Zero. Jealousy, Emily. I've never had anything like that. That is fantastic for you. I am of the opinion, though, that jealousy, in small measure, to a certain degree, is symptomatic of a healthy relationship. Really? Yeah. All right, let's get into it. Okay. You're ready? What is jealousy, Chuck? First of all, jealousy. Envy? Same thing? No, not at all. No. They're in fact, quite different, because envy, Josh, is when you want something that you do not have that someone else has. Right. Usually an object or whatever the job is an object. Is it? If you write it down, if you draw a picture of your job, it becomes an object. Whereas jealousy is a fear of losing something that you have to someone else. Yes. Like a job or an object. So you want something that somebody else has an envy and jealousy, you already have something, but you fear losing it. Yeah. And relationships are usually where you talk about jealousy. So you basically fear that you're going to lose your mate to the dude at the bar. Right. And jealousy, Chuck, is an emotion. So let's talk briefly about emotions. There's primary emotions like fear, disgust, anger, joy, and a couple of others. And these are found in just about any animal with the brain. Right. Okay. And then there's secondary emotions that are selfconscious emotions that include jealousy. Right. Jealousy, shame, guilt, embarrassment, pride. You have to have a sense of yourself, an awareness of yourself in relation to others to experience secondary emotions like jealousy. Because jealousy, you can't be jealous of anything if there's not another person or another something. It takes two to be jealous, right? Yeah. And Ralph Hopka, he's a professor of psychology at Cal State Long Beach Heat, I know, was interviewed for this article and he put it really succinctly. He said jealousy is an anticipatory emotion. It seeks to prevent loss. Yes, that really sums it up right there. But it also makes Chelsea really unusual because think about it, all emotions are reactionary, really? There's like a stimuli, stimulus. Right. And you react to it. You feel fear because of it. You feel joy because of it. Jealousy is the prospect of experiencing something. So that makes it an antecedent to other emotions like anger or fear. Right. It comes first. Yeah. It's weird. It's unusual. It is. And what our emotions, Chuck, if not motivators. Right, sure. Yes. Fear motivates you to move away from the man coming at you with a knife. Yeah. Joy motivates you to do that again or break out in song. Right? Yeah. And then I guess jealousy motivates you to take measures to prevent that loss. Interesting. Alright. This is going to be a fun one. Alright. Because rarely do we come at it from different angles. Since we're talking about MV, do you want to talk about your penis? Sure. That's one of my favorite things to talk about. Sigmund Freud, the psychoanalyst, came up with the concept of penis envy. And I had a general idea of what it was and it wasn't very far off. But it wasn't until this article that I read what penis envy is. It is defined the psychoanalytic concept in which a female envy's male characteristics or capabilities, especially the possession of a penis. Right. Yeah. What's that got to do with jealousy? It doesn't, but it is interesting. I didn't understand why this was put into this either. This is one of the more feminist articles on the site. Is it? Yeah, I thought so. But in this little sidebar, penis envy, basically what Freud came up with is that all women want to be men and all of their accomplishments and feats are the result of a sense of competition with men. Or they're trying to make up for the shortcoming of lacking a penis. Interesting. Obviously this has been generally discarded, but pertinent to your question of what it has to do with jealousy. Nothing. Because that's envy. And we've already cleared the air between what's envy and what's jealousy. I just thought it was an interesting sidebar. It is. Can we talk about jealousy? Sure, Chuck. There have been studies it's kind of a difficult thing to study because you want to study if gender has anything to do with it, if age has anything to do with it, if ethnicity has anything to do with it. And it's hard for age because you'd have to interview someone at the age of 14 as an adolescent, and then again in their thirty s and then their 50s. Right. And that's sort of a hard study to pull off the same person you'd have to interview. One of the reasons why it's so hard is because well, it's a longitudinal study, but with jealousy specifically, it's so contextual, culturally contextual, that as the culture changes, expectations of what might make someone jealous change as well. Sure, that was the reason, at least, given in this article. But other longitudinal studies have been carried out, and it could conceivably be carried out. But apparently no one's done it on jealousy. Right. Yeah. But there have been some really cool studies just about different aspects of jealousy, and they have found some pretty cool water cooler things that you can wow your buddies tomorrow in the cubicles. Yeah. Women, they've always thought, have showed jealousy a little more than men do, and we'll get into the emotional and sexual jealousy in a minute. But one study revealed that women, when they're jealous, tend to aim their ire more often at the rival, whereas the male will aim the ire at their partner. Yeah. Amy Fisher interesting. Yeah. Great example of that. It's a really great example, actually. What lies beneath. Fatal Attraction. Glenn Close yeah. Although she kind of came after the family wholesale, didn't she? Yeah. And then there's always the Lorena Bobbitz who just fly in the face of that. And the woman who ran over her husband in Texas member right. With her daughter in the car. Right. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm going to end up saying this. I might as well say it. I think it's all very personal. Like, it's hard to do a sweeping study of jealousy and say, people say this and people do this because everyone's different. Yeah. And this other supplemental study from 2010, I think, that you came up with kind of underscores that supports that idea. Chuck, I think jealousy is far more personal than it's been treated in the past as well. For the most part, it was viewed as it was divided by gender. And there are studies that support that, that women tend to be more jealous than men. Right. And I guess you have to be very careful with your wording there, because it's really easy to skew that idea the wrong way. It doesn't mean that women experience jealousy more than men, necessarily. Right. It just means that women display jealous characteristics more than men, according to these studies. Well, yeah. And they say that one reason might be that they're not more jealous, they just are more open and honest with expressing that than men. Exactly. Yeah. Since you brought that study, though, it is pretty interesting. There's long been the belief that men are more upset about sexual infidelity. Women are more upset about emotional infidelity. Actually, that is true. But they always thought that it was evolutionary in its basis because men and this is pretty interesting, there is no way for men to have proven that they're the father of a child. Right. So men were always very guarded about sexual behavior. Well, they guard their mate because my wife took his pregnant. And I don't know if it was me or if it was Ringo Star over there. What? Oh, that's from Caveman, isn't it? I don't know if Tuck Tuck was and women are more committed to raising a family and having a partner, so, like, an emotional betrayal would be more devastating to them. Right. But the scientist at Penn State said, well, what about the fact that there's men who are really upset about emotional betrayal just like women are? Like, how do you explain that? And they did some studies, and they found that it's not necessarily evolutionary in nature. Right. No, what they came up with was that it was much more personal and specific. Basically, what these two researchers hypothesized was that men tend to be more sexually jealous and women tend to be more emotionally jealous or jealous over emotional betrayal and sexual betrayal because men are more likely to detach from personal relationships as a defense mechanism. Right. That was their hypothesis, and they carried out the study, and they found that their hypothesis was generally correct, that men who are detached from relationships, which they theorize as a defense mechanism, are more likely to report that they would be turned off or made jealous by a sexual betrayal than an emotional betrayal. Right. But what they found, and what I think they were trying to point out was that their hypothesis explains why there's a population of men who are in securely committed relationships who consistently report that an emotional betrayal is way worse than a sexual betrayal. So they're saying, like, there is a division of jealousy by gender. But here's why it's not because men can't prove that that's not their kid, right. That it's actually much more personal than that. Did you know that men one of the most common reactions that a man has when they first find out that their wife is pregnant is who's is it? Even in committed, like, awesome marriages, it's like a very common psychological reaction to think, like, that can't be mine. What? Yeah. Where did you read this? I read it. That's it. I can't remember. You did? Yeah, I did. So many sites I want to rag on right now. All right, Chuck. Well, quickly, though, about that study, too. It also points out that the person's history has a lot to do with it. Right. It's a defense making it yeah. I'm not a jealous person at all, like I said, and I have no trust issues. But if I had been cheated on a bunch of times, I might sure. And I throughout this podcast, or I'm going to refer to nameless friends of mine, and I do know this one couple who the guy had a history of cheating, and the girl had a history of cheating. They hooked up, they got married, and they're both pretty jealous. Are they? Yeah, and they've been happily married. It's not like they're not a good couple, but they're both just inherently jealous because they're both cheaters. Right. It kind of goes back to that judge not less. You be judged. Or when you point a finger, there's three pointing back at you. The concept that actually encountered the concept that if you have cheated, you are aware that people can do that to other people. And on the same coin, if you've been cheated on, you're acutely aware that that can happen. And I think both of those situations can lead to jealousy, too. I think that's what that Penn State study was saying, that, like you said, it's much more personal than of evolutionary origin divided along gender. Right. So, Chuck, there have been other studies, too, that some are hokey, some deserve rim shots, some deserve sad tom Bones. Right. But apparently some studies have focused on jealousy as an individual emotion, not necessarily needing another person. But it originates in the self. Right? Yes. And one of the things that they found was men who are tall and women who are of average height tend to be less jealous than men who are short or women who are shorter or taller. Yeah. And basically the point is that they know everybody wants them. Well, and I think beyond that, it goes back to what I was saying. I think the root of a lot of jealousy lies in the insecurities of a person, and short guys are often insecure. Okay, so if jealousy is an insecurity, we're breaking new ground here. Are we? Yeah, it sounds like it. Okay. Jealousy is an insecurity based emotion, right? I believe so, yes. And what we're finding is that it can be it can originate from the self feelings of insecurity based on appearance, height, attributes, what have you, or it can be inflicted by another person. E. G cheating or being cheated on. Yes. Or doing anything to break someone's trust, right? Yeah, trust breaking, dude. We get our PhDs today. Chuck, are you ready? Yes. Should we talk about adolescent jealousy for a little bit? Yeah. Adolescent jealousy, Josh, is kids are pretty jealous. They're some of the more jealous creatures on Earth. If you sit around and watch kids, there's two types. There's one that is inherently wants to share a lot and is very kind and giving. And there's one that doesn't want to share. They want what you got. They want your Lincoln Logs. They want to break your toys. They want your log cabin. Republican log. And kids often display this, and especially with siblings, with sibling rivalry, but they say rivalry, whatever. And they say that's a really normal behavior, though, and not to get too worked up about it as a parent and to kind of stay out of it unless it gets violent and let them figure it out on their own. But that makes you wonder, like, our kids more jealous, or are they just more emotionally honest? Well, maybe. Have they not learned that you need to kind of keep a lid on that kind of thing or not emotionally mature. It depends on how you look at it. I did it either way. Is that right? Yes. Were you? Did you happen to be extremely lonely or extremely insecure? I think I was insecure in my high school relationship and that made me really jealous. Oh, yeah. Okay. So check that. That's actually kind of normal to experience jealousy. As far as friendship. Jealousy is an adolescent, according to a study that was produced well, not produced, but published instead in developmental psychology. Right. And I basically found that kids who are insecure or lonely or experienced insecurity or extreme lonely tend to be jealous of friendships. Right. So when they get into a friendship, they are jealous of their friends. Friends to the point where it can erupt in physical aggressiveness or passive aggressiveness, where they're ignoring their friend and their friend has no idea why. Yeah. That's basically high school. Another way to put it is high school. Yeah. And I sort of became friends with the popular crowd in about the 10th grade. And I never remembered being jealous because I was just so excited to be in the cool club. I was never jealous. I was just like, yeah, I like everybody, and everybody likes me, and it's all great. But it was the girlfriend that I was jealous of. Got you. But I had reason to be. I think it's pretty normal too. I think high school is how do you ever make it through that? I don't know. I always feel so bad for kids that take their own lives in high school because it's just, like, would have just hung on a couple more years. It gets so much better, believe me. Yeah. We can message that out to our high school friends. If you're lonely and depressed out there. Hang on, hang on. So much better. High school is really anyone whose high school was the high point of their lives. They are the sad people in your past, eventually. Exactly. So, Chuck, that study I was talking about in developmental psychology, it was pretty comprehensive. They interviewed 505th through 9th graders and asked them about hypothetical situations and found that it was reinforced that girls tend to be more jealous than guys. Right. Which is something that I think psychology is having a lot of trouble addressing because it's just such a misogynist finding girls are jealous. It's so cliched. It's so the other word I'm trying to think of, but it apparently is this open secret in psychological research into jealousy. Right. Or, again, like you're saying, or are girls more emotionally what's the word? Honest? Expressive honest. Sure. Yeah. But when it comes down to a study, there's no distinction. Right. That's true. I mean, it's open displays of jealousy that you're looking for or at least honesty in whether or not you'd be jealous. Right. And I could see a lot of high school boys not being in a study like this, not wanting to cop to it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. You're talking about types of jealousy. Adolescent jealousy is racked with sibling rivalry. Right? Yeah. I was second fiddle to my middle sister. Still, to this day, I'm like the baby of the family. I'm like, oh, I'm going to be on TV next week. And everybody's just like, Whatever. So, Mandy, how are the kids? You know about my handsomer, thinner, smarter older brother? Yeah, he and I correspond pretty regularly these days. Do you? You guys riding each other? Does it make you jealous? It does. He was always better at me in school and better looking, and like I said, he's in better shape. But I was never jealous of him because my parents were always really good about just Scott was good at this and you're good in other areas, and they were good about building me up. You're good at growing facial hair. Yeah, exactly. Well, actually, that is where I beat him to you. Yeah, he can grow a little goatee and a little stash, but he struggles in the facial hair department. Good. Maybe he's jealous of my facial. I bet he is. He would never admit it, Chuck, but he is, okay? Take it from me. And he never rubbed it into that. Can make you jealous, I guess, if he stuffs it in your face, but we just always got along really great. Yeah. And you were saying? Did your parents stay out of it? Yeah, I mean, they stayed out of fights when we had them, and they definitely didn't say, well, look at Scott's report card compared to yours. He got A's and you got B's. Yeah, well, who does that? Unless you're like a sadistic parent out there. That's crazy. I know. Yes, my parents stayed out of mine and my sister's relationship, too. And apparently you messed yourself up. That's the way to single handedly. Pretty much, yeah. But that's apparently the way to go, according to some child psychologists. Like, stay out of it, let them handle it themselves, because not only are they learning how to sure, but you might also actually like one more than the other. And they can come through loud and clear to the one when you unconsciously side with the other. So apparently, let your kids, as long as they're not beating the tar out of each other, you're all right, right? Yes. So that was a sibling rivalry, which is also called family jealousy. And then I imagine there's other types of family jealousy, too. Like one parent being jealous of the other because they're getting all the attention from the kids. But that exists. Yeah. And then, of course, there are all sorts of complexes, edible electro, just all sorts of crazy family dynamics going on. I got an older sister, too. I never talk about Michelle. I should mention that she's six years older. So there was no jealousy between the sexes. We are all our own people. How much old is your brother? It's three years and six years. Three. Three and three. I got you. Romantic jealousy, Josh. Yeah. You want to talk about that? That's really the big one. Yes. This is the one where apparently everyone else on the planet but you and Emily experience this. I know plenty of couples who aren't jealous of each other. Really? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Is that news to you? Yeah. I've never, ever had a relationship that didn't have some jealousy here. There wasn't a constant, it wasn't a thread, and it wasn't debilitating by any means. Right. I've never been in a relationship that didn't have that didn't exhibit some form of jealousy somehow. And I don't know that I would feel comfortable in one that doesn't really I wonder if it's over sharing, but that's how I well, let me ask you this. You go to a party with Yumi, you split up, and you see her over at the beer keg, because the keggers we get to at this age, just talking to some guy, would you immediately feel jealousy or just think she's just talking to some guy? Or is that none of my business? Honestly, I would say that in that situation, because I trust her. Right. I would assume that she's talking to some guy, but I would eventually go over there. Is it, like, continued? Or if she started talking later on or something like that, and it wouldn't be for her. I wouldn't be trying to intervene toward her. Right. It would be like, hey, guy, she's got a boyfriend, kind of. You know what I mean? Yeah. You want to go to your territory? I know her and I trust her. Yeah. And I don't know the guy. Right. And I know that I don't know the guy, and the guy doesn't know I exist or whatever. Although knowing you mean, he does know I exist, so that just makes me more apt to go over and be like, take a hike. For all you know, he could be dropping a roofie in her Miller Light. That's exactly right. And this is why I think that it is healthy to experience some form of jealousy, because if I was totally not jealous, I wouldn't have gone over there, I wouldn't have cared. Right. And I would have had my back to my girlfriend, which whatever. I don't think that's a good thing. Really? I guess that's me, then. No, but here's the thing, Chuck. I guarantee you we're going to get less than or mail supporting your view. Oh, sure, and supporting my view. I don't think there's a right or wrong view. I think, you know when there's an uncomfortable amount of jealousy in your relationship, when there's jealousy any or a bunch, you know, and if you're getting beat up because your husband or boyfriend's jealous and you don't know, go get help. Yes. Because that's too much. Well, you may not know if you're really jealous, though, because a lot of people might think that's completely normal to be abnormally jealous. Right. Well, we're here to tell you, and again, this applies to women beating up men. If you're getting beat up by your significant other out of jealousy for any reason, really, that's not okay. That's wrong. Other people who also listen to this podcast think that your relationship is wrong. Everybody out here thinks that what's being done to you is wrong. It's a good way to put it. They did find that romantic jealousy is usually the first fight that a couple will have is over some sort of romantic jealousy. Whereas later on in life, it's all about money. Money the more. And if you're lucky, it's about money. As long as you're not fighting about trash, who takes the trash out? You're fine. Really? Yeah. Once you start fighting about the little stupid things, that's a big problem. You think so? In my experience, we should start a relationship showing people just, like, what we think about things. All right, let's get back to the science, shall we? There is work jealousy, of course, and that is a really ugly thing to have in the workplace. And that is obviously when people are buying for the same jobs or looking for the same promotion or the same pay raise or the same whatever, and other people are getting it, or a person gets that raise over you. And it's one of the uglier types of jealousy that I've seen. It is. And you know what I think is cute? What's that? This is how I feel about you. If I'm ever jealous of you, it falls much more into the sibling rivalry than work jealousy. Oh, I thought you were going to say romantic. I was about to say thank God. No, thank God. So what? More sibling rivalry than work? For sure. Yeah, well, that's because we're peers and we wish the best on each other. Like, occasionally we'll get individual opportunities. Not often, but sometimes. You write it for HuffPo. Occasionally? I didn't think you cared about that. No, I know. That's what I'm saying. Congratulate me. Well, that's what my point is, okay, is that we're really supportive of each other's. Like I wrote for Cosmo last week. You wrote for HuffPo? You wrote for Cosmo? I should be jealous because HuffPo cosmo no. You wrote for Cosmo? Yeah. You didn't tell me this. Are you jealous? No, but I'm proud of you. You're supposed to tell me these things. Oh, I was kind of like Cosmo wanting to know about stress and that's awesome. It's like being mad at your boyfriend gives you pimples and stuff. That's awesome, Chuck. Not as heady as HuffPo. Hey, well, regardless, Chuck, I'm proud of you. So you sent me the link after this. Okay? I will. When it publishes. I will. And pride is a self conscious emotion. It is. And then, Josh, we've talked about this kind of off and on, but abnormal jealousy is, I think, what they called it many things. Psychotic behavior, delusional, morbid. It's also referred to largely as neurotic jealousy. Neurotic, where it's habitual, possibly unfounded, or at the very least, detrimental to the relationship. Yeah. And they said it could be, for a lot of reasons, insecurity, of course, always back to that and maturity again and being a control freak, which I thought was kind of interesting. It can also be the result, like we said, of having your trust broken. Chuck or having feel like the trust was broken even when it hasn't happened. Right. But I think if you've broken someone's trust, you know it like, to a debilitating degree, you know it right. And there's actually a lot of help out there, people who, if you've broken someone's trust and you don't care to find out how to rebuild, it probably just move along. Sure. But if you do care, then there's actual, like, steps to rebuilding trust. And we actually did a little digging around and found some. Right. That's right. So we found that I think anybody who says seven steps to rebuilding trust, in, like, ten minutes, it's not going to happen. One of the things that we found in our research was that if you're rebuilding trust, broken trust, it's always going to take longer than you think it's going to. I would, like, triple what you think. I think even that would probably fall short. I think once you start thinking about how long it's going to take, you've lost focus, and you need to refocus on rebuilding trust with the person. So the first thing that you have to do is tell your partner whether it's your friend, your spouse, the love of your life, your co host on your podcast, your workmate, whoever you broke and trust with. You want them to know that you understand their feelings, that you're wrong them right. And that you're sorry, and that you feel totally cool with the fact that they hate you right now. Yeah. And you were completely responsible. You have to own that completely, I would think totally. Because some people break trust and they kind of try and put it back on you a little bit, which is a natural human emotion, I think, to try and deflect blame. But it's always better if you just keep it on yourself. Well, you don't want to keep it like, you want to have a conversation and yeah. You want to accept responsibility for what you did. Some of the things you don't want to do is withdraw, attack back, like you were saying, or offer excuses or explanations. You want to do that and apologize, not attack back, but you want to offer an explanation and apologize in reverse order after you've said, I understand that you're mad, and all of this might not take place in, like, a ten or 15 minutes conversation. This could take place over months, depending on how badly you've hurt the other person. Yeah, but yeah, after you have said, I know I've hurt you and I take responsibility, you want to apologize, you want to explain your point of view. Basically, you want to say, this is why I did this, even if it's as wrong as because I'm a selfish jerkish. Jerk. That's an explanation, right? Yeah, sure. It helps the person understand why it happened, which I think is a big part of it. Right? Yeah. I would just recommend stopping short of trying to defend your actions, though. Right. Because there is a difference. Right. You're not saying it was right. You're saying why you did it, those two are separate, or why it's right is layered on the explanation. Right, yeah. And you want to make promises, actually. You want to go out of your way to make promises. You don't want to say, I make no promises. This changes our relationship. You can't expect anything from me. You make promises by saying, this is what you can expect of me in the future. Right. And it can be. One of the examples that was used in this was if you lie to your wife so you can go play golf with your buddies on a Saturday morning, which is, wow, you want to promise to spend every Saturday for the next two months with your family. Maybe. Or you could go to your wife to begin with and say, hey, I'm going to play golf on Saturday. Right. Or even, Can I? Depending on your relationship. But, yeah, lying to your wife to go play golf with your buddies, it's like a Bob Hope short from the or Kevin James sitcom. Do you have anything else on trust there? Well, yeah, you want to make promises. One of the things you want to do is not over exert yourself with promises. You don't want to make fantastic promises, because the worst thing you can do is not follow through on your promises. And you just broken trust again. Right. And you also want to make promises that are not just agreeable to the person whose trust you've broken, but to yourself as well. Sure. Because if you're like, well, for the love of God, I'm like, I've lied about playing golf with my buddies, and now I have to go get some moon dust because I promised I would. You're going to probably resent your partner. So you want to come do a consensus about what's okay, sure. And then, like we said, you want to keep promises, and then you want to kind of discuss how things are going. There's a lot of steps to this, but again, the rule of thumb is apologize or say you understand why their feelings are hurt and take responsibility. Apologize, explain, make promises, follow through on the promises, and just keep an open dialogue. Don't try to hustle the other person. Yeah. If you're a male right now and you're thinking all those steps, come on. That's called being in a relationship. Right? And it does take a lot of work and a lot of steps. It does. If you're going to be in a happy one, dude, that's what you got to do. And you will know when it's worth it. Oh, sure. You'll know, or when to cut bait. Yeah. So chuck. I guess that's it. Well, no, I got a few more things. Okay, good. We never finished on abnormal jealousy, actually, because there's a switch that happens sometimes between normal jealousy that leads to abnormal, and Dr. Hopka says it's not always easy to spot and define when that happens, but you should be aware of it if you're in a relationship, because it can get really bad when they throw acid on you or pay someone to throw acid on you. Did that happen? Yeah, there was a picture in the article. Oh, really? Yes, really weird. He says that a few things you can look for, though, for abnormal jealousy is if you go out or something, you're given permission or you just go out with your friends and your mate is always calling to check in on you. That's something that you should look for. Or if they're going through your telephone book or your text or your address book. That's probably abnormal jealousy, too. It is. And I have other unnamed people I know. It's a friend of mine who oh, sure. The wife says you can go out with your friends. Oh, no problem. I'm so cool. It's so cool. And then they get out, and the whole entire time, 25, 30 text in a couple of hours to the point where we just go, why you even bother coming out, man? That's supportive. Yeah. What should I say? That's awesome. No, but I mean, like, why even bother coming out? That's kind of mean. I don't know. I can't wait to meet your unnamed friends. I'd be like, your unnamed friend number two. I don't think they listen to the podcast. They don't? No. So I feel pretty comfortable. Okay. And then two more things. Green. Yeah, the ancient Greeks. Right? Did you recognize that? What do you mean, recognize it turning green because of bile. Remember the four humors we talked about in a Happiness audiobook that never got released? Yeah. Hint, hint. Yeah. They think that came from a build up of bile when you're jealous or envious and it will actually turn your skin green. Yes. Yellow bile will turn your skin green. I think. I think it'd be green bile. Yeah. Well, there isn't. There's yellow bile, black bile, blood and phlegm. Or the four humors. I like black pile. We're both black pile and a little bit of blood. We're both sanguine and melancholy and can we talk about animals real quick? Animals actually show jealousy forms of jealousy. No, they don't know. They don't. Chuck, if you read this sense of fairness does not indicate jealousy. And what's more, the animals may have envied the other animals treat. The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences did a study where they tested dogs to give them treats when they would shake as a reward. Like shake their paw? Yeah. And they saw that if another dog was getting a treat, a piece of food afterward and the other wasn't, that the dog that wasn't would eventually, after a couple of times, she'd be like, I'm not shaking until I get some food. And they tested that in monkeys, and they found that the monkeys got jealous over the kind of treat. Even the ones that got a cucumber were like, at first, oh, this is great. I get a cucumber for a treat. And then they noticed that their buddy was getting a grape, which tastes a lot better, I catch to a monkey. And the monkeys would actually just stop performing because they didn't get a treat as good as the other monkey. You know, it's weird that came up when we were doing research for our Superstuff Guide to the Economy audiobook. Oh, that's right. I knew that sounded familiar. It was at Yorkies, at Emory, down the street. See, the thing is, Chuck, is that's a sense of fairness, it's not the same thing as jealousy. And I don't think that the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science got it wrong. I think NPR did, because sometimes NPR gets things wrong. Well, my sons me to say it five times per podcast. We get something wrong per podcast. You may say jealous. Some say elephants get jealous. Elephants can remember. It's hard to tell with animals, because you can't ask. Well, currently, the prevailing scientific way of looking at it is animals don't have a sense of self enough to experience secondary emotions like jealousy or shame or embarrassment. You have to have a conscious sense of self. I think animals do. But science is like, we'll prove it, and we haven't figured out how to prove it yet, so that's where we stand by you ready? I see you've got a fine piece of listener mail right there. Yeah. Do you have anything else? No. So if you want to learn more about jealousy, trust, all that kind of stuff, you can type jealousy or trust into the swing and search bar@howsupworks.com. Since I said that, I think nowadays it's time for listener man. It is. Josh I'm going to call this just one of many polygamy emails we got. It blew up. It really did. We got one from Lubega. Did you see? We got two emails from Lubega. And I wrote him back the first time because he said, hey, guys, I'm not pumping gas. I'm slicing meat at a deli, just so you know. And I wrote him back and said, Slice it thin, Lou. And then he wrote back again and said, about the Mormon, one of the polygamy podcast? Yes. He was defining do you think it's I'm kind of leaning toward it, dude. I wrote him back today and said, listen, if this is the real Lubega of hit song fame, then I'm going to need photographic of it. That's what I was thinking, too, but I didn't have time to email them, so I'm glad you did. I want a picture of Lubega. I wish you'd CC me on these. That kind of makes me jealous. I don't CC you on fan mail. Yes. When it's Lubega, it depends on who it is. Okay, CC me on the rest. Especially if he sends a photo evidence. What's funny is he's going to send a picture himself. You're going to be like, wait, what the hell did you look like? Now I remember what it looks like. What if he doesn't wear ferdora? I wonder if it's in the delis. He's like a little bit of turkey, a little bit of pumper, nickel, some rye. Oh, dear. So this one, like I said, we heard from a lot of people from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. A lot of people said it was really great, you got it right. A lot of people said, you got it all wrong. Or they said we didn't distinguish that enough. I disagree. Yeah. We said quite plainly that most Mormons don't do this and that this is the fundamentalist Mormons that do it with a capital F. Fundamentalist Mormons. That's the name. Well and a distinction between the Church of Latterday Saints and Mormons. Right. Maybe that's what the distinction was. Maybe so. I'll find out. We'll have a whole nother. This is from Susan. Hey, guys. I've said it before, I'll say it again. You guys are awesome. I just had a few clarifications about the Mormons concerning their practice of polygamy in your recent podcast. I myself am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints and a history buff on this topic because a few of my ancestors were early members who practiced polygamy. Right. Polygamy was not a blanket requirement for being a good member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. It was only practiced by a small portion of the membership of the Church and was only done so at the discretion of the president of the Church. You couldn't just decide to do it yourself unless you wanted to be excommunicated and or seriously disciplined. Those men who were asked to practice polygamy were mostly leaders of the Church and all parties were willing and gave their consent to the marriages. You mentioned that after the Church stopped practicing polygamy, they promised to excommunicate any who continued to do so. But even when they advocated the practice, that was selectively practiced among the leaders of the Church. I have to say, in this day and age, I would be hard pressed to find a good reason to practice polygamy, at least in the Western world. Back in the pioneer times of wagons and gas lamps, I could see some benefits. My great grandmother, who was a second wife, said that second wife is in second of two active wives. I think that's what you mean. Okay. That in a lonely, dreary, dangerous part of the wilderness that she and the first wife settled with their children and husband. It was comforting to have a close friend and neighbor who she knew would help them at any moment for any reason, and there were no other neighbors around for hundreds of miles back in the day. As a member of the LDS faith, I appreciate respect in discussing the issues that are close to my heart and then accurately representing facts that are so often misreported and misconstrued. If you guys decide to do a podcast on the LDS, I would recommend you visit the church's official websites and access material there for clarification of practices and beliefs. And she said, I'll give you any help you need to, because I got the 911, the four one one. That's Susan B. Thanks, Susan B. That was very kind of you to take the time to write in and to say we treated it respectfully. We thought we did, as opposed to some people who did not think we did. We tried to. Totally. Okay. Aside from the swinger intro, I think I'm fine. Anyway, thank you very much for that, Susan, and everybody who wrote in with their opinion one way or the other, that's very cool. And thanks for the bit of history and research, Susan. We always appreciate that. If you have a story about your best country ham months, we want to hear about it. Wrap it up in a podcast. No, wrap it up in an email. Right? Or I guess you could record a podcast on it and then email that to us. You could do that or a link and send it to Chuck and Jerryandme at stuffpodcast@houseoffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstofworks.com. Want morehouse of work? Check out our blog on the houseofworks.com homepage brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you?" | ||
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podcasts.howstuffworks.com/hsw/podcasts/sysk/2017-01-10-sysk-babyboomers.mp3 | What's the deal with Baby Boomers? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/whats-the-deal-with-baby-boomers | Baby Boomers are probably the most talked about generation in American history. But who are these people and how did they help shape the country we know today? Find out all about the big boom in today's episode. | Baby Boomers are probably the most talked about generation in American history. But who are these people and how did they help shape the country we know today? Find out all about the big boom in today's episode. | Tue, 10 Jan 2017 08:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2017, tm_mon=1, tm_mday=10, tm_hour=8, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=10, tm_isdst=0) | 47287152 | audio/mpeg | "Are you looking for? An escape? An immersive getaway experience? Well, there's a place for all your wildest dreams. Perhaps you enjoy wrapping along the paperboy. Or you believe that blessed be the fruit. Or you dream of one day smashing a glass while stealing. Who's. Ah. Whether you're sworn to Team Kim or you just want a good old fashioned mysterious murder, there's a place that has it all. From Atlanta to only murders in the building, it's all on Hulu. So check into your obsessions. Hulu subscription is required. Terms apply. Visit hulu.com for plan details. Welcome to stuff you should know from howstuffworkscom? Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W, Chuck Bryant and there's guest producer Noel over there. So this is stuff you should know. Yeah. Noel elected to sit in on this one and not just sit, record and run screaming. Yeah, we were kind of surprised. It's weird, though. It's been so long since we had someone in here with us. I know. It's been at the Ghost studio that time. Forgot. Yeah. We have to suck in our guts again. Sit upright. I have to lick my fingers and then straighten my hair with them. Sure. So, Chuck yes? You are a Gen Xer. Did you know that? Yes. Are you? Yeah. That was my next point. Okay. Sorry. I am too. Yeah. Noel, I think is a millennial. No way. You were you born? NOL. Is a millennial. Yup. God knows what Jerry is. No idea. Yeah. She's of her own time. Sure. None of us are. Jerry might be, I don't know, our baby boomers. No, Jerry. You know, Jerry is a Gen Xer. I'm just teased. Yeah. One thing that this inspired me to do was to do a show on Generations, period. I find it fascinating how people are grouped and also a little frustrated. Once I got into the subgroups, it helped me. Sure. But when I looked at especially the baby boom generation, there's such a clear difference, which we'll get to the early and the later part of that. Right. It was just like, well, why don't you just call them two different generations? Some people do. Well, some people do, but for the most part, they don't. For the most part, people say the baby boomers are people who were born from 1946 to 1964, is the general definition of them. Yeah, it's just weird. Like, my mom missed out on it just by a couple of years, but then my sister just missed out on it by a couple of years. Right. So it just doesn't seem like I know they're not the same generation, but it's not even close. It shouldn't be. No, it's not. And again, we'll get into it a little bit more, but some people say that's just too wide of a swath. And more to the point, which this is the basis of Generations, the life experience of the people on either end of that 20 year or so spectrum. We're so wildly different that they can't be in the same generation. It just doesn't make sense because the point of a generation is that it is a group of people born around the same time who all shared some sort of major life experience. A collective life experience. Yeah. Whether it's culture or ideologies. Yeah. Usually an event, though, like the assassination JFK is the go to for baby boomers in the event was so enormous that it shaped their worldview for the rest of their lives. Yeah. Like ours would be the Where's the beef? Commercials. Right. Well, we do share that, though. Oh, no, I was dead serious. Are you not? Well, I don't know if that's the identifying well, for millennials, especially older millennials, it would be like 911. Sure. Maybe the Challenger explosion is the one I always go to. Does it always have to be a disaster? No, it's just got to be an enormous event that enough people are aware of and impacted by that it shapes who they are. So it's almost like a group of people all about the same age, all being touched relatively the same way at the same time, so that their worldview has changed forever by that event. So where's the beef? Yeah. Okay. So the reason there were a lot of well, the deal with the baby boomers is, as you'll see, is that there are a lot of them and birth rates rose quite a bit in 1946 and stayed that way for about 20 years. And it's interesting when you look at the reasons, the most obvious thing you can point to is to say, like, yeah, dude came home after the war and had a lot of sex. Pretty much. Right. That has something to do with it. But this article points out something I never considered, which was sort of a convergence of that and then not just wanting to have a lot of sex after the war, but the promise of prosperity to come after the war, and things are going to be great, so let's go all in on the family. But that converging with a bit of an older generation of parents post depression that may have waited to have kids for various reasons and that kind of all happening at the same time. Yeah. Younger families having kids, not postponing the older generation that had postponed having the kids all at the same time. Huge population increases from the American population increased by 50%. That's not from 1946 to 1945. The number of babies born year over year increased by 20%. That's a lot. Yeah. So in 1946, millions, I think about an average of 4 million and change babies started being born every year. And it kept going and going until, I think, 1957, when it plateaued and stayed high for a while, and then it dipped again starting in 1964, 65, which coincided with the widespread availability of the pill right. One reason I think the baby boom generation is so interesting and endlessly talked about and studied is because the ideological shift that they were presiding over was just massive. This article kind of sums up nicely. Like, they created the youth movement of the 60s when they're in their 20s. It was that culture excess of the then in the 80s, they became the yuppies. And now they're entering retirement or in retirement and running the world. Running the world and then under the ground. And then, as you'll see, a lot of them are rebuffing the excess of, hey, let's make and spend tons of money and concentrating on giving back, which was originally inspired by the Kennedy administration volunteerism. Yeah. That's not what your country can do for you thing. That whole thing. Right. But it's interesting. This one lady I'm sorry, the first boomer born just after midnight in New Jersey. Kathleen Casey Kerschling is widely regarded as the first baby boomer. Yes, it's born January 1, 1946. Yeah. And as you'll see, if you look at her life, she really is like a symbol. And of course, that's kind of the problem with generations, as you lump them all in as this. And of course, it varies from person to person. Well, that's one criticism of even studying generations in the first place. Yeah, but she was married for a time, got divorced, has a self made pension that she accrued over the years. Like, I'm going to take care of my own retirement. Doing appearances as the world's first baby boomer. She missed out if she didn't. Bearded lady, and then had a career. Successful careers, I think like a corporate trainer. Then in the early 90s, left corporate America and became a high school teacher for like, 15 or 20 years. Yeah, she basically read a book on how to be a typical baby boomer. It's interesting. And now, like, splits time between Maryland and Florida and has concentrated on volunteerism in her retirement. That's really neat. Yeah, she's kind of the prototypical boomer, if you want to buy into that thing. Yeah. Traditional into nontraditional family structure, family life. Right. Yeah. Career. Took care of her own retirement, and then during retirement, chose not to actually just retire, but to stay active and engaged. Yeah. That is pretty typical boomerasm boomerang. Should we hit people over the head with some of these stats? Yeah, I mean, they were pretty interesting, I guess, just because they came at a really interesting time in America's history. Like, the boomers started to be born at the same time as the suburbs. The consumerism, American consumerism, all really started with the baby boom generation. Yeah, they felt really good about spending money on themselves. They were the first children targeted by advertisers. When we were advertising the kids that started with the boomers, everything changed around that time, in part because of the baby boomers. So they are probably the most studied generation in American history. Yeah. So there are more California boomers than any other state. I think Utah has the fewest amount of boomers, but they still had like 23% of their population was baby boomers. Yeah, but they're the only one that was under 25%. Right? Right. What else? 12.6% boomers never got married, which is from their parents generation. Only 3.9% never got married, so that's a pretty big increase. Shunning nuptials. I wonder what it is now. I couldn't find it. I don't know. It's just increasing, I'm sure. What? People choosing not to get married. Right. Or living nontraditional? Maybe it's traditional now even. We're just together, we're just not married. Right. Partnerships. What else? I mean, we could read out stats all day, but that's boring. I thought you loved doing that. Fine. Well, there were two things that really stood out to me, though. And they go hand in hand. 40% of baby boomers expected their adult children to move back in with them, and then 30% expect their parents to move in with them. And for some of those people that overlaps, one of the precarious positions that some boomers find themselves in is caring for adult children and aged parents at the same time under the same roof. Yeah, and I posted something a while ago on Stuff You Should Know, his Facebook page and something about kids moving back in. And people are like, what a bunch of losers. And then so many people from all over the world were like, you know, America is like the only country that feels that way, that family should leave at a certain age and not come back. And they're like all over the world people are like, we think it's a great thing. Family is huge. And we welcome family to live with each other into their twenty s or thirty s if they want to. That's bizarre. We help each other, rely on each other. Yes. I guess the rest of the world doesn't know. In America, when you turn 18, they have a cu and hell party where you leave and you're not allowed to come back into the house until your parents are dead. What? We call that a hit the bricks party. Oh, you bats. A family. That's right. Now that we're making stuff up, do you think we should take a break? Yeah, let's do some real research and come back and do this again. Okay. Are you looking for an escape or a relaxing getaway or a reprieve from the hustle and bustle of it all? Well, we know just the place. Maybe you want to solve a murder in your building. Or you're just all about that paper boy. Perhaps you want to watch Hollywood's biggest monitor. Or you crave the thrill of a classic American story about horror. Or is your stomach grumbling for a milkshake flaming flamer's chip? Would you love to quench your thirst with a delicious Tranquilium house smoothie? Did you see blood analysis as an investment opportunity. Would you wear one of Dave's wooden shirts? Do you smash glasses whilst yelling who's? Ah. Well, then there's a place that has everything you love, from Atlanta to the Kardashians to only birders in the building and everything in between. Hulu is your entertainment. Getaway Hulu check into your obsessions. Hulu subscription required terms apply. 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No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. All right, Chuck, so the baby boomers were, until very, very recently, the biggest generation, population wise, to ever, ever hit America. And they hit America, but they hit us like bricks. Yeah, but millennials, they're taking over now, right? Yeah. Millennials just surpassed the boomers in numbers, from what I understand. Yes, millennials. As of 2015, of course, that number has grown. Now 75.4 million just edging out 74.9 million baby boomers. But here's the thing. Millennials are still being born. Boomers are dying. Yeah, the boomers actually, here was something that I just thought was amazingly interesting. The baby boomers peaked fairly recently. As far as their numbers go, they peaked in 1999 at 78.8 million. Wow. Right? And our generation is going to peak next year. So if all the signs and symptoms that you personally are dying that's true, and I'm dying weren't enough, our whole generation is now dying. Yeah. We're going to decline after next year. Yeah, I think more and more about that. But our generation, peaking in 2018, know about me dying. I know what you like. I never thought I would be that guy that just sort of like that whole Woody Allen obsessed with your own death thing. Are you obsessed? No. But it's healthy to think about the fact that you're going to die. Probably. So some people believe, including me, that genuinely accepting your own death is the key to living fully. Yeah, I agree. I think that's the struggle. Yeah. I mean, you can throw that on a Tshirt, but sure. Yeah, I know. Sometimes I'm like, I wonder if it just hasn't fully sunken yet and one day down the road, I'm going to be like, I'm going to die. I think this has come more and more for me in the past five years. So I'll check back in with you in five years. You can do if I'm alive, that'd be better. I'd be really sad. Yeah, it'd be sad for at least three people that I know, and you're one of them. Thanks. So I was talking earlier about the boomers. That age range is too big and it needs to be split up. And turns out it has been. Generally, if you look at 1946 to 54, people refer to that as the leading edge of the boomers, and 55 and 64 is shadow boomers or generation Jones. Yeah. Did you look into that? Yeah, I mean, just the name was the first thing I was like, well, where did that come from? And apparently there's a few different things. Either there were Jonesing for prosperity of days to come, more so than the leading edge. Yeah. They had just as high expectations, if not higher than the first batch, but fewer resources available to them. Yeah, it's a weird name. So they apparently are considered to be more cynical, more bitter than the first batch of baby boomers. And then also their life experiences, again, like we were talking about earlier, are so different that it's just a different generation. Everybody's just being stubborn and want baby boomers to be this 20 year generation rather than ten. Well, yeah, but you were talking about the life events or whatever, the binding life events. These two writers, Howard Schumen and Jacqueline Scott in the mid 80s, kind of did a little bit of research on what they feel like. What people feel like is their defining thing from their generation, and it is sharply divided. When you have the leading edge, you've got, obviously, JFK. Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King, a lot of assassinations, the moonwalk, Vietnam War, civil rights movement, and then the more cynical shadow boomers or Joneses. You're talking nixon and Watergate? The cold War, the oil embargo. It sort of makes sense. Those are two pretty starkly different sets of events. Yeah, they are. It's like almost a different world that happened, that took places along that change along that divide. America switch gears in large part, yeah, agreed. And you asked earlier, it always has to be a disaster. All of these basically are pretty glum and gloomy. I think disaster unites, so that's probably a big thing. But also, I think it leads to a loss of innocence, which happens on a personal level as well. Right. That's kind of when you grow up is when you realize, oh, my God, everything isn't totally stable and my parents can't solve every problem in the world. There's like real strife and hardship and injustice and bleakness. And when you realize that, suddenly say something like this president you idolize being assassinated. Yeah. It can have a real solidifying effect on your life, your outlook. Yeah. You mentioned the Challenger for us, and I'm in no way like, downgrading that, but for me personally, and it might have just been the way I received the news, even. I don't feel like it was the big defining thing. Okay, it was obviously a big deal, but did you see it happen? No, I don't think I saw it happen live, which probably is a big factor. But, like, Reagan being assassinated rings more in my head, at least, as a memory. I'm not saying it affected me as much personally, but when I think back, like, what big thing in the childhood happened on an international stage? I remember where I was when Reagan was shot, and I don't remember the Challenger as much, which is weird because it was later. Yeah. I was only, like, five when Reagan was shot. I don't have any memory of it whatsoever. Right. You didn't care. I didn't know. I was like, yeah, I didn't know what was going on. Five year old didn't care. I guess not. You play with your GI. Joe's. That's right. But as the article points out, one thing that united all boomers was TV. Yeah. Okay. So if we're talking about how we should give credence or props, I guess, to the guy who came up with the concept of generations. It was a sociologist named Carl Manheim, and he wrote The Problem of Generations back in 1923 oh, wow. And basically said, this is a thing now. I'm Carl Manheim. Good night. And he says, like I was saying before, that the generation is held together by the shared experience that they all go through together. And up until television, you have radio, you had newspaper, you had a guy on horseback running around from town to town shouting news or whatever. But with the invention of television, now you have this really powerful way for people to share the same thing at the same time because they were getting the news in exactly the same way through television, where a generation really could be solidified and defined into an actual group that had a lot in common. Because of this event. Well, yeah. Not just news, but just culturally, like the first generation that sat around and watched TV shows together. That and music were, like, the two biggest things culturally. I mean, obviously you can talk about the Frisbees and Hoo hoops and Barbie dolls and stuff like that, but TV and music, like the birth of rock and roll and the birth of television are, like, the two hugest things, for sure. Elvis, the Beatles, those were very much in the wheelhouse of the boomers. Yeah. So you've got those things, you've got what they were like you were saying. You got the fact that they can be shared easily by a number of far flung people all over the country of the same age. Yeah. You got yourself a generation, buddy. Yeah. And then the final little piece there is the skepticism of that generation I think was a really big uniting factor. Like boomers were the people who said don't trust anyone over 30, and the whole Nixon Watergate, the Vietnam War being played out every night on TV. That led to political revolution in this country, I think, because of that skepticism. Yeah. But it's interesting, rather than saying, like, there are generations of parents before them, well, this is just the way things are. Yeah. Can't do much about that. Right. This generation was among the first to say, no, we reject this way of looking at things and we seek to rebuild these institutions in a way that more reflect how we think the world should work. That was a huge hallmark of the baby boomer generation. Yeah. It's weird though, when you look at all this stuff, like they were the most selfless in a lot of ways, but also the most selfish generation in a lot of ways. Oh, yeah. At the same time, the whole 80s yuppie things. Yes. The me generation. Sure. And the consumerism was hand in hand with the birth of feminism. Or maybe not birth, but at least rebirth of feminism and the civil rights movement. It's really interesting that all those things were wrapped up in this one generation. Well, similarly though, too, they were also very political and then apolitical depending on the decade. Like they were members of organized student groups in the late sixty s, and then by a decade later, they were all like, doing coke and turning their back on politics while they were like, disco dancing. Like, hey, money. That's actually kind of cool if you have it, right? Yeah. They've gone through huge shifts and sociologists have run after them, studying them the whole time. Yeah. Politically, it's sort of hard to lump the baby boomer generation politically. I think this could probably set up most generations, but they're really hard to pin down. So this is an old survey, but in 2004 AARP did one that found out that baby boomers supported abortion rights and gun control, stem cell research, but they also supported the death penalty and being more conservative fiscally, sort of all over the map. Politically. What's funny is I thought there's this actual sentence in this article it's very difficult to pin boomers down as being either liberal or conservative. I typed into Google, found immediately a 2014 Gallup poll. It said no, 44% conservative, 21% liberal. Oh, really? Yeah. Of baby boomers. Yeah. Interesting. Self reported on a poll, 2014 5% total. Yeah. So the other don't hurt. The other rest were like, if you can remember, the weren't there. And the pollster was like, sir, I didn't ask you about the that's funny. And we talked a little bit about consumerism. But that was also a really big uniting factor was this was the first generation that really went all in on saying it's okay to spend money on yourself. You don't have to feel bad about it. Those previous generations were of the Depression era. Right. You don't just do things like that. Don't throw that safety pin away. You can fix that. Yeah. Penny saved is a penny earned, whereas the boomers were like, penny saved is one you could be spending on something cool. Right. What's interesting is that it's come back again. Like that level of thriftiness we're in the midst of right now. You think I didn't live through the Depression? True, yes. But yeah, compared to even 1015 years ago, pre recession mentality, what we're in right now is definitely thriftier. Interesting thing, though, great Depression great Recession has a tendency to bring out the thriftiness in people. We were talking about politics, though, too. So the first baby boomer president was Bill Clinton. Yeah. Billy. And then George W was the second baby boomer president, and then it went to Generation Jones with Obama, right? Yeah, he was the first Joneser, but baby boomer. Yeah, but really, Generation Jones? Okay. Really? So Billy and George were in the leading edge. Yeah, they were both born in 1946. Okay. Obama's, Generation Jones, and then the next guy, he was born in 1946 as well. So it went back to baby boom after Obama. Oh, interesting. And this well, I don't know. You never know what's going to happen in 2020, but you would think that not even just the presidency, but in all of politics, that obviously will be phased out with time. But I wonder if there will be another president from that generation. I don't know. Although Joe Biden just said, don't count him out for 2020, and he'll be 80 then. Really? Yeah. He's got a lot of vim and vigor, though. He does. But, boy, 80. I mean, not to knock any 80 year old listeners out there. Well, Bernie was 81. I think he would have been just fine. Yeah, that's true. 80 is the new hope. So, all right, let's take a break and maybe continue with this afterward, huh? I think we should. All right, we got to finish. Let's do it. Are you looking for an escape or a relaxing getaway or a reprieve from the hustle and bustle of it all? Well, we know just the place. Maybe you want to solve a murder in your building. Or you're just all about that paper boy. Perhaps you want to watch Hollywood's biggest monitor. Or you crave the thrill of a classic American story about horror. Or is your stomach grumbling for a MILKSTAKE flaming flamer's chip? Would you love to quench your thirst with a delicious Tranquillum house smoothie? Did you see blood analysis as an investment opportunity? Would you wear one of Dave's wooden shirts? Do you smash glasses whilst yelling Hoosa? Well, then there's a place that has everything you love, from Atlanta to the Kardashians to only birders in the building and everything in between. Hulu is your entertainment. Getaway Hulu check into your obsessions. Hulu subscription required terms apply. Visit Hulucom for plan details. Hey everyone, when you're running a small business, every second counts and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office? Then? You could be using Stampscom. Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses. Because Stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and Ups shipping services you need right from your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS. Rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. So, Chuck, one of the things about a baby boom is that they're significant and that it's a sudden influx of a lot of kids being born at the same time. Yeah. And the reason it's significant is because previous to that and then usually after that, there's fewer kids being born. So it's a bulge in your population. Right? Yeah. So that means that that population is eventually going to grow old. And as they grow old, they are going to need more social services that you have reserved for the elderly for the ages in your population. Right? Yeah. I mean, not only that, the other side is the healthcare sector period. Whether or not we're talking like Medicare and Social Security and stuff, but just health care period in the private sector is like licking their chops. Oh, yeah. It's going to be money to be made and it's being made. It's going to be a big boom for the healthcare sector. And it has been booms for all these several other sectors along the way as they've aged and matured. And then now they're looking to health care more and more. It's not going to be just like a sickness bonanza for the healthcare industry because one of the hallmarks of the baby boomer generation is they were one of the first to really take care of themselves much healthier. Like, I remember when we were younger, like a 65 year old was like an old person. Like they might be on oxygen. They were not in good shape by their mid sixty s. Now every day they're doing one handed push. Ups in the street and stuff like that. That was the result of the baby boomers doing things like taking up jogging, like eating vegetarian, just generally taking better care of themselves, having an emphasis on that. So they're not going to just all start getting sick on mass. Yeah, like the boomers. I'm sorry, previously, the boomers, they're like, well, what kind of steak do you want tonight? Like, what cut of beef? I want steak stuff with steak. Oh, man. I just listened to a Mark Marin episode with David Spade, and he's talking about Farley, and he said that Chris Farley would put a new full pack of butter on every bite of steak that he ate. That doesn't sound very tasty. Well, butter on steak is delicious. Yeah, but that much butter on each bite, that's too much. Yeah. You might even say that's excessive. And Spade would get on and be like, Dude, you can't do that. And he said Farley would look at him and go he's like, but each one needs its own hat. He's like, you couldn't help but laugh because he was just so adorable. What a loss. I'm just so sad, man. He talked a lot about it. It was really interesting. Yeah. I'll have to check that one out. Yeah, I love those two together. Yeah, very sad. Not to bring everything down, but you did. But we were talking about them aging and being healthier. Yeah, they are aging in a much healthier manner than previous generations, but they still will need health care. And these social services that are available specifically, like Medicare for health care and Social Security for retirement pensions, what's the difference? They're like, no, I started to look into it, but I got depressed. But then I also saw that, no, we saw this coming. So they have taken measures. Yeah, I saw in a couple of places that it's the most predictable train wreck in American history. Okay, well, that's good and bad. So here's the thing. When you're working, you're contributing to Social Security. It comes out of your paycheck, right? Yes. That goes into a poorly managed fund that loses money very quickly. Right. So it was in grave danger of really running out in the not too distant future decades. And in 1984, there was a payroll tax increase that created a reserve fund. And 1984 means that it was a Ronald Reagan tax increase. Right. So this reserve fund is still around. I think it's like $2.6 trillion in it. But we are depleting it each year, and it makes up the shortfall that Social Security is lacking. Right. So as we deplete it more and more well, we have less and less money to provide for people down the road. They think by 2034, we'll just be back to just Social Security. The reserve fund will be depleted, and we'll be able to offer something like 70% to 80% of the benefits that's coming to each person that's a big shortfall. In other words, hey, what you thought you were going to get, you're going to be short 20% to 30%. Yes. Right, exactly. Okay. So people are like, what do we do? It turns out there's a lot of very not painless, but not painful at all measures that you can pick from and put together. I saw this great Forbes article on it. They had, like, an infographic, so it really drove it home. Yeah, but it's like, pick three of these, pick two of these, pick five of these, pick ten of these, and they were just increasingly smaller and smaller, less noticeable measures that you could take and make up 100 and 2130 percent of the shortfall in Social Security just by moving money around. Yeah. Or just slightly increasing these taxes, slightly slashing benefits, slightly making the age of retirement a little longer, a little older. Yeah. Altogether, the average person wouldn't even notice, really. Right. So I'm sure that we're going to be able to figure it out in a way that's not going to just ruin everything. That's good. The thing that's keeping it from really going downhill, though, is that the baby boomers seem to have said, I can't retire. Right. So in 2008, that Great Recession that happened, there was a massive transfer of wealth out of the real estate holdings and the stock portfolios of Americans. A lot of them were baby boomers who were poised to retire. They lost a lot of money. It went elsewhere. Right. And as a result, the baby boomers just said, well, I have to go back to work, or, Well, I was going to retire, but I'm going to have to keep working for five more years. And that mentality seems to be keeping Social Security from being further strained. They're working longer than they normally would be expected to under Social Security. Yeah. It says here the Congressional Budget Office said that 25% of boomer households don't have enough savings put away to retain their standard of living upon retirement. So there's that. There are also a large set of boomers that want to stay active and keep working. Like, I think it said something like, only 17% are expected to fully retire and be done working, and not all of them are because they need the money. Right. It sort of depends. It's kind of sad. Some people have been forced out of their jobs and at a late stage in life or later stage in life, have to go back to, like, these hourly jobs. And other people are choosing to they're like, you know what, I want to go work in a wine shop and make $12 an hour. Or like the first baby boomer chose to go teach high school as her second career yeah. And is now full in on volunteerism. Right. There's definitely both going on again. You can't paint that generation with just one brush. Right? Yeah. Sorry for using that metaphor. What? You don't like that? No. Painting with the brush? No. Why do you hate art? Where that one guy? Yeah, man. But there are plenty of people who just simply can't afford to. That, to me, is just really sad. Especially if the reason is that their 401K just lost value or their house isn't worth what they were planning on, and that was their nesting. That is really sad to me. It is. We don't give advice much, but I think millennials are much better about trying to think about their long term financial future than our generation. Because I didn't think about that stuff till just far too late, but taking it very seriously now. But my advice to younger people is just like, just start early, dudes, and do deaths with small contributions. Even talk to someone who knows what they're doing, who knows what's going to happen. Don't depend on Social Security. Like, take care of yourself yeah. With safe investments. And I'd be like, yeah, dude, I got it covered. My brother is going to open up some pay lots. I'm going all in on this parking lot. That might work out. But try some nice safe investments, long term stuff. Well, diversify. Yeah. Don't put all your eggs in one basket or in that pay lot. Right, exactly. Which now just occurred to me that was the Fargo. That's what he wanted. Oh, is that what it was? Yeah. He wanted to buy some parking lot. Real rich deal stand. Yeah. I know your office stats these days, but I have some that I feel are worth sharing. Okay. I'm just going to go sit outside. I got these from the miley fool. They're depressing. So, 59% of baby boomers expect to rely heavily on Social Security. 59%. That's up from 43% in 2014. So more are counting on that now. Yeah. I would thought that would go down. No, things are not going well right now. 45% have no retirement savings. Wow. None anymore. They may have had it before. They don't have it now. They never saved whatever. That's up from 20% who said that? In 2014. Wow. So things are tanking for the baby boomers right now. 26% expect to wait until 70 to retire. 30% stopped adding to the retirement assets in 2016. 16% had taken premature withdrawals. 44% were in debt with a median debt of $24,500. Man. Yeah. This is not how we should care for our aged population. No, it's not. And then you couple the fact with, like, that's great. You're going to expect to rely heavily on Social Security. You're going to be disappointed. But you just go ahead and report that to any guy who asks you with the poll. Yeah. The other big misconception is that the boomers work harder than the millennials or Gen Xers. Yeah. They're Protestant work ethic. And you found this cool thing. This guy at Wayne State, Keith Zebel, he examined 77 studies comprising 105 distinct measurements of work ethic. And he basically said, that's all just a bunch of junk that you read in Salon or Slate. He was like, if you look at the numbers and the stats, there is no difference in work ethic between the generations. Yeah, which is interesting. And it feels right. It just feels like just something that some editor wants to write about and assigns it. Like that's a hot topic. Well, apparently that's a big human resource thing, too, is figuring out how to structure a corporation to squeeze the most out of each of the generations that's working there. And this guy is saying, don't even bother. They all work the same. Yes. Although they did say that baby boomers tend to thrive more. They subscribe to organizational structure more. Yeah, so hierarchies. Whereas, like, millennials and Generation X are more like, let's do some more work from home. Yeah, how about that? Or how about a big huge cavernous office with no walls? Right? We're all the same. Can we get some butterfly steak around here? How about a standing desk? You know why? Because sitting is for Chumps and Gen Xers. You remember that whole period? What do you mean? Here in our own office? Yeah, some people still do. That the weirdos. Yes, but I've also seen more stools in here than ever. Sitting stools. I see. What else? Apparently the boomers are really the first big generation to robustly opt for cremation upon death and not have this morose open casket, traditional sad funeral, and be more like, I want to die as I lived with verve and vigor and let's have a party, man. Scatter my ashes on the White House lawn. How much does it cost? A higher Gallagher. I wonder. I'll bet he's still tourists, too. Oh, I'm sure he does. I bet he's got his own place in Branson. He's a little too hip for Branson. Right? Between yakov and inklebert Humperdink. Yeah, you got that. Anything else? I don't think so. Oh, well, I did think it was interesting, the big suburban boom that came with the millennial. I keep saying that. I don't know why I'm like skipping genetics altogether. Well, that's the curse of our generation, the big suburban boom. With the boomers in the 1950s, it became cheaper basically to move outside the city in a tiny apartment and buy an actual home with a backyard. And that's when the suburbs really boomed. And apparently it had quite a deleterious effect on women. The women who moved to the suburbs, they were sort of, in a weird way, taught, like, hey, go back to that thing where you don't want to work. You want to just be a mom out in the suburbs and raise your kids. Yeah, that's the thing to do. Same Revolutionary Road. I know what you're talking about. Depressing movie. Oh, my God. But apparently it generated that dissatisfaction is what led to the women's rights movement. Like that dissatisfaction turned it into feminism of the because there were plenty of women's rights movements before. Like with suffrage. Well, with suffrage, yeah. This revived it big time, just living in the suburbs. It had such a crushing effect on women living in the suburbs, isolated from the city, from other people, from social networks, and living in this place where they were expected to just basically raise kids and keep the house clean. Yeah. Pretty neat how things produce equal and opposite reactions. Yeah. This lady, Betty Friedan in 1063, in her book The Feminine Mystique, said that the suburbs were burying women alive. And it's a very harsh way to put it, but certainly drives it home. Oh, yeah. I find that interesting. We need to do a feminism some time. I do have one more on baby boomers smoking grass. Okay. Apparently they like it. It was one of three things you could give for a ride. Yeah. Gas. And one other one that's still, to me, one of the all time great bumper sugar. It's just so good. This man, Benjamin Han, he's a doctor, geriatrician, and health services researcher at the center for Drug Use, and he led a study called the Demographic Trends among Older Cannabis Users in the United States 2006 to 2013. It's kind of wordy, but he evaluated close to 50,000 adults 50 and older and found that 71% increase in marijuana use among adults age 50 and older between 2006 and 2013. Which makes sense. These hippies getting older. Right. And it says here that they didn't start like, they just kept smoking grass. Right. They just aged into another age group. Yeah. They're not new users, but that fell off a lot after 65. Significantly lower prevalence of use, but still two and a half times higher over that eight year period. So yeah, it's pretty interesting. I've seen the same thing with STDs as well. There are higher rates of STDs among older populations than before. And again, it's because the baby boomers are aging into these new age brackets yeah. Bringing all of their vices with them. Yeah. My friend well, I won't say any names, but I have a friend, and his wife has her family in South Carolina, has an island, just one of these little coastal it's not like an island like you would think. It is an island, but it's not a big, huge thing. Just a small area of land on the waterways on the Outer Banks. Got you. Yeah, but I mean, you got to see the place. It's land, but it's surrounded by water and all. But when you think like someone owns an island, you think of this big thing with houses everywhere. And the Outer Banks is like just tons of little islands. Tons of little islands. They own one of them. And they have a little retreat there, which is basically a cabin with, like, eight bunk beds and then this huge just picnic area, like a covered picnic area and they have this retreat every year, a couple of times a year, and I've been on it and all these old South Carolina hippies are all these kids parents, and they put us to shame. They all get naked. They like getting naked. That age group. It was too cold to get naked. But we were in bed before they were. They were up again the next morning before we were. And I remember literally waking up, hung over and walking out to the fire and there was like 760 year olds with three joints being passed around between them. Oh my God, at nine in the morning did you leave? And everybody else was asleep and I was just like, what world have I stepped into here? And these are the boomers. He said he was like these cool old hippies. Yeah. Martin Mole, still fighting the power. Martin Mole, yeah, it was interesting. They're a fun group, I got to say. Still fighting the power on a private island in South Carolina? Pretty much. Well, we could probably sit here and talk smack about baby boomers for a year or more. I love them. Yeah, they're great. But we're going to stop, right? Okay. So if you want to know more about baby boomers, well, stop baby boomer in a grocery store and ask them about what it's like to be a baby boomer. And since I said that, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this English sayings of sorts. Hey guys, love the show, enjoy the way you have a go at pronouncing things. You seem to be enjoy being corrected on these, so hold on tight. I was listening to the podcast on Fleece Circuses and you mentioned hertford. Shire, England. A couple of pointers. Hartford Shire is pronounced Hartford Shire? We are way off. I admit it, it isn't spelled H-A-R-T but then that is just the English language for you. The legendary that has many sounds like tough cough though. Through. It can be a royal pain in the butt for everyone learning English, but it must be a nightmare to learn English at a later age. Oh, yeah. My free tip for you is that if you ever have to discuss a place called Lachboro in Leicestershire, it's pronounced Lufthborough Lestershire. Okay, got it. Cambridge is not on Hertfordshire. It's in Cambridge, Shire. It's a bit like saying Boston, New Hampshire. Close but no cigar. So I guess we messed that one up too. No, that guy got it wrong. I was saying it's spelled like hertford. Sure. So I'm sure it's pronounced Cambridge. Oh, he wasn't listening. He didn't get the joke. Got you. It was a little esoteric. It was a little american. Anyway, guys, love the podcast. I'm currently going through your back catalog which is spelled with ague and it wilds away the boring drive to work each day across Cambridge. Our differences are so vast, how will we all ever get along. That's Ian Rose. Thanks, Ian. Or Ian rose. There you go. If you want to get in touch with us, like Ian or Ian did, you can tweet to us at s yskpodcast. You can join us on facebook. Comstnate. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@housetofworks.com. As always, join us at our home, on the web, stuffyoushnow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetopworks.com. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime four days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon Music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my Favorite Murder, and Smalltown Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today. 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The Shark Diaries | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/the-shark-diaries-1 | In this special episode of Stuff You Should Know, Chuck and Josh tip their hats to Shark Week with an old-fashioned radio play. Join the guys (and a few guests) as they present a dramatization of the 1916 Jersey Shore shark attacks. | In this special episode of Stuff You Should Know, Chuck and Josh tip their hats to Shark Week with an old-fashioned radio play. Join the guys (and a few guests) as they present a dramatization of the 1916 Jersey Shore shark attacks. | Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:19:54 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2012, tm_mon=8, tm_mday=14, tm_hour=18, tm_min=19, tm_sec=54, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=227, tm_isdst=0) | 38642903 | audio/mpeg | "Objects carry a lot of power. They tell stories about people, places or a time in history. On Mysteries at the Museum, the podcast from Travel Channel don Wildman searches for objects that tell shocking stories of American history. Like the ordinary blue mailbox that changed the course of a massive spy case in the Cold War. Uncover the histories behind extraordinary objects. Listen to mysteries at the Museum on Apple podcasts spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Picture this, friends. You could be packing a carry on for a trip to Hawaii when you realize you're going to need a bigger bag. But it's cool because you booked your flight with your City Advantage Platinum Select card. So you can check a bag for free on domestic travel and still have room for those souvenirs. And surprise, those souvenirs also earned you advantage miles. Actually, you earned advantage miles and loyalty points with each swipe. So let's start dreaming about your next next adventure. This could be you, and you could be anywhere with the City Advantage Platinum Select card. Learn more at city comAdventure and travel on with cityadvantage. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hi, and welcome to the turn of the century radio play. How's it going, Chuck? Great, how are you? I'm doing good. It sounds not like a radio play. No, it will. Yes. Very soon. This is a very special Stuff you should know in honor of Shark Week. That's right. We're doing something different. Something that Mr. Charles W. Chuckers Bryant put together. A group of radio diaries, I guess you could say. Yeah. I think we touched on the shark attacks at the Jersey Shore in Madeawan Creek in 1916 in a previous podcast, How Shark Attacks work. Yeah, dogs. Shark's favorite meal. That's right, because the dog was actually in the water when the first victim was attacked. This is the story that inspired Jaws. Peter Benchley. Yeah. And it is the famous and there's been a lot of specials on this. Like some pretty good ones. Well, it's pretty sensational. It's like hugely sensational. I would call this the special of all specials on this. You did a great job. You think so? Yeah. Well, thank you. So we want to give you a little backstory so you know what you're listening to. Then we want to introduce the players to this little radio play, or I guess you call it a podcast play. Yeah. So you know who you're listening to and what you're listening to. Well, Chuck, let's talk about the attacks. What year is this? 1916. Yeah. And it's a time when beach recreation was like new. The frozen banana had just been invented. Yeah, sort of. But this is the first time. This is the beginnings of massive amounts of people going to the beach. Dudes swimming in the ocean, ladies just starting to show a little ankle, just dipping their toe in. Yes. Mainly the men out there swimming in their one piece. Yeah. Weight lifters, uniform, bathing suits. Right? That's right. And it was just like a beautiful time to be alive in America. And so this is the Jersey shore. It's much like the Jersey Shore today, where if you live in New York or Philly sure. This is where you're going when it's hot. Also very different. I mentioned Right. But this is the origin of that time or of that movement. Absolutely love. So this would all come screeching to a halt over the course of twelve days with five different victims, four of which died on two in the Jersey Shore and then two more on a creek on the inland tidal creek. That's crazy. In. So the first attack takes place on July 1, 1916. Right. Yeah. And people thought it was a fluke. Yeah. It was a Philly vacationer named Charles Van Zant, and he died five days later. There was another attack on the shore. So yes. Now all of a sudden you have the entire nation's attention because everyone was like, a guy got attacked by shark. It never happens. Totally unusual occurrence. Then five days later in the same area, there's another one. Yes. A Swiss man attacked on the shore. And then after that is when they don't even know sharks or sharks moved inland to a tidal creek. And like kids swimming in this creek thinking it's completely safe. Boy dies. Man dies trying to save boy. Another boy severely injured. Yeah. And it was pretty nuts. After that, President Wilson got involved, it was like a nationwide frenzy because no one had ever known about shark attacks before. Oh, yeah. This is like the first thing. It was like an anomaly. Okay, so you were basically like a sailor to know about a shark attack. I think so, yeah. Okay. Well, that's a heck of an introduction. It is. So that's what we got going on. We'll introduce the players now. First up, you're going to hear and these are lost diaries that we found from the scene. Right. We should point out I thought that was a given. It is. Dr. John T. Nichols is played by text stuff jonathan Strickland. He is regarded as the first American ichthyologist and worked with his mentor, Dr. Frederick Lucas, who was very they were kind of at odds for a while on this. Like, Lucas was like, that's not shark. Sharks don't do that. And so Nichols went to the scene and he was kind of who Matt Hooper was based on. Awesome. Of Jaws. Next up, you're going to hear Louise Van Zant, who is the sister of the first victim, Charles, and she was played by Rachel Frank, who coolest stuff on the planet. Yes, I was doing that. Is she still doing that? Formerly of coolest stuff. And she actually saw her brother from the beach get attacked in the water. Third up, we have Stanley Fisher and then Mary Anderson after that. And they were a burgeoning love relationship in marijuana between these two. Stanley was a local tailor, a very well loved dude, and Mary Anderson was a schoolteacher. And they were just like starting their courtship when Stanley perished right in front of her face. Gosh in the creek. I mean, think about it. It's bad enough to see someone killed by a shark, somebody that you care about killed by a shark. That's got to really leave an impression. I would say so. And Stanley Fisher is voiced by Robert Lamb. Stuff to blow your minds. Robert Lamb, that's right. And Mary Anderson is voiced by the former I guess she's still Katie Lambert. The former stuff you missed in history class host. Right. Who's now departed from our work ranks. I think that was probably good to point that out. Katie is still doing great. And then finally we have Joseph Dunn, who was one of the little boys who actually survived. This is crazy, man. Are you really going to tell everybody who does Joseph Dunn? I don't think so. Okay. I think we should just leave the mystery boy. Okay, let's see. Who Joseph Dunne, the mystery boy who is of legal age to be acting in a podcast play without any kind of like, child labor laws being broken, right? That's right. And Joseph, he was actually from New York, and he and his brother Michael went to visit his aunt and uncle in Cliffwood, New Jersey, and go swimming in the creeks there with her buddy Jerry Howard. And things turned pretty gruesome for all of them. Some rotten luck for the Jersey Shore with Adelaide Creek. With that, shall we go ahead and proceed with the SYSK radio play? Okay. What do you call this thing? Call it listener mail from a fan in Canada. That's terrible. OK. How about the Shark Diaries of the attacks at MeadowAn Creek? July 1 19. One. Dear Diary, we're headed to Beach Haven on the train and it could not be any hotter. I'm covered from head to toe in wool and cotton and it is quite tiresome. I consider trying the ocean out this time, but Father says that women should not bathe with men. Besides, whoever thought wool stockings and seawater go together should be run up? A flagpole leads in the hem of the skirt. It's as if they're attempting to drown us. Even so, it will be grand to be at the beach for Independence Day. My brother is beside me making fun of my diary. He has threatened to steal it and share it around his office. I'm sure they would be quite bored with it, though. We must be close to arriving because I can smell the salty air. July 1916 05:30 p.m. Dear Diary, the resorts are all booked full and I bet half of New Jersey and Pennsylvania are at the shore. Every 15 minutes, a train dispatches another 1000 people. It is quite a sight. Who would have thought that the ocean would draw such a crowd? There are young men everywhere, playing cards and keeping an eye out for comers. Father and sister are resting up before dinner and I'm roasting on the hot sand, watching my brother swim to England. Presumably he promised me a walk on the beach but befriended a dog that seemed keen for a swim instead. I call him Patches. Currently, he and Patches are swimming out well past the others, both doing their best dog paddle. I can barely see him from here, but he looks to be having loads of fun. He's yelling and waving his arms for passes but it looks like the pooch has exhausted himself and is heading back. I'm beginning to think that july 2, 1916. 02:00. P.m.. Word arrived this morning of an attack on a human in Beech Haven. Possibly a shark. Most odd. Naturally. Dr. Lucas has already discounted it. But I wonder my inexperience next to Lucas is pronounced, yet I doubt his resolve to test his own hypotheses. Now he nears retirement and news of sharks feeding on humans is not something that appears to interest him. His lack of investment was striking. I need to go to Beach Haven and investigate, but I am bound to the museum. The fish commissioner said that it was likely after a dog in the water with the victim stripped the man to his bone on the right and lost several pounds of flesh on the left. My early thought is a tiger, or perhaps a bull. Lucas is convinced there are no great whites around here. The victim was 25, very young. July 2, 1916 03:30. A.m. Dear Diary, I cannot believe the words that I am about to write. My brother has died. He was swimming far out in the water when the people around me began shouting. I saw a long, dark shadow in the water just behind him. A man said that it was a shark, but I don't know. I've never seen one. It had a tall fin that sat high in the water. It took him by the legs and drew him under. A lifeguard swam out to retrieve him, but it was too late. He was gone by the time he reached shore. The water ran red with his blood around my feet and I've never felt so helpless in all my life. His left thigh was in shreds all the way to the bone. His right leg was hollowed out from waist to knee. His lifeless face stared skyward. July 2, 1916. 08:25. P.m.. Summer has come upon us fully. It was more than 90 degrees yesterday, and it may have been even hotter today. Business has been steady but slower than it was in the spring and the winter before that. Mary and I went for a walk down by the creek after church on Sunday. She told me about our students. We talked about madeline. We both love it here and don't desire the bright lights of Philadelphia or New York. It is a close community, and we look out for each other. I want to raise a family here. I've grown quite fond of Mary, and I believe that in three weeks it can be called a genuine courtship. She's kind, pretty, smart, and comes from a good family. There's a rumor in town that a man was attacked by a giant fish yesterday in Beech Haven. Captain Catrell has told us all stories of man eaters at sea, but has also regaled us with tales of giant squids and waves as tall as four stories. He's well known to stretch the truth, and his words should be taken with a pinch of salt. 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For example, your first check bag is free on domestic travel, so you and your family have room to pack for every possibility, like coming home with extra souvenirs. And with preferred boarding, you'll be in your seat sooner, ready for takeoff into Adventure. The hard part is deciding where you'll go first, because when you earn 50,000 Advantage bonus miles after qualifying purchases, adventure is on so fast in your seatbelt and put away your tray table because there's so much world to see. And the city advantage. Platinum Select Card is your ticket. You can learn more at City comAdventure and travel on with City Advantage july 2, 1916 07:36 p.m. Dear Diary july July I cannot believe I have not written in my diary since the end of the school year. Summer break was supposed to be my time to catch up on this sort of thing. All well, Lady DA. I am being courted by a man. He's tall and broad with blonde hair and blue eyes, very handsome. He's beloved in town as well. His name is reputable as the mayor himself. He's a tailor and has one of only four shops on Main Street and is consequently quite a snappy dresser. We took a walk after church on Sunday and talked about life and our hopes and dreams and our families and our past and our future. I'm just over the moon about it, really. He loves Madewan as much as I do and would not give a nickel for the bells and whistles of Philadelphia. We were in his shop this afternoon, and I watched him cut a suit jacket. It was really something, a true art. A strange thing happened as well. Captain Cattral came by and told us a man in Beach Haven was attacked by a fish, perhaps a shark. Very odd to hear such a thing. July 4, 1916. 915 A. M. Dear diary, today's Independence Day, and it's very hot here in New York. Father is home because it's a holiday for families. We're supposed to think about freedom today, but I don't know what they mean. My brother told me there was a man who got eaten by a shark in New Jersey, but I think he's just trying to scare me because we're traveling to visit my aunt's house in Cliffwood next week. They say a lot of people go to the beach now and swim in the ocean, but we only go in the creek in Maudawan with our friends. We're going to parade later today. My brother said he would buy firecrackers, even though mom said not to. I'm putting a picture of New York in this diary so I can show my friends at Madowan what the city looks like. I hope I get a good mark for my diary riding project when we start school. I like it. July 3, 1916 05:17 p.m.. Dear Diary, I decided to take lunch to Stanley today at his shop. I do not want to run him off by calling too much, but I missed him, so I threw caution to the wind. She seemed very pleased to see me, and we made plans to go to the Twin Lights Lighthouse at the Atlantic Highlands on the Bay. It is going to be just splendid, and I can hardly contain myself. I'll pack a picnic supper, and we'll watch the sunset together and then the big fireworks show. My favorite. Stanley traded a man a tailored suit for life insurance today, a Cecil suit, which was far too generous. What on earth does a man his age need with life insurance? But that is also what I am growing to love about him. His generosity is only matched by his kindness. He plays baseball with the children, and they absolutely adore him. I want to bring him by the schoolhouse this fall to meet my students. Listen to me. Already planning for fall with him by my side. Oh, and I just had to clip out the ad. Stanley place in the Madowan journal. July 5, 1916. 11:20 p.m.. Dear Diary, I met the lifeguard who tried to save my brother at the funeral. He was very kind. I believe that he did everything he could do to save my brother. No one has ever been attacked by a fish before, and many doubt be events as they occurred. There have long been stories of man eaters in the sea, but I most believed them to be legend. I was there. I know. I saw him flung from the water. I saw his mangled left leg exposed fully to the bone. It had been virtually torn from his body. The Times ran a small story on page 18. My brother deserved more. So much more. July 7, 1916. 10:15 am. Another shark attack yesterday in New Jersey Spring Lake. The Times this morning is already all over this event. So much for dodging a media circus. Lucas finally agrees that something is amiss. This is no blasted sea turtle. We have eyewitness accounts this time. It's clear that someone should go to Spring Lake and examine the body. I feel like I'm the most qualified man in New York, maybe even the country. Lucas may fight me on this press conference in the morning at the museum, so we had better get our ducks in a row. Lucas said that the jaw of a shark is not strong or capable of severing human bone. I have grave doubts. July 7, 1916. 05:30. P.m.. Deird. It's been almost a week since we lost my dear brother. I found his journal today, and reading his final entry breaks my heart each time my eyes pass over it. We received a word this morning that another bather was killed two days ago in Spring Lake. A bellhop at a local resort. His attack has drawn much more attention than our own just days ago. I feel terrible for his family. Perhaps in time I can reach out to them. No one seems to know what is happening on our beaches that were so different just days ago. What was previously a welcome distraction from the polio epidemic in New York is now a beach awash with the blood of our brothers and sons. I pray for the end of summer. 1612 15:00 p.m.. Word has come to Madeline that another bather was attacked on the shore yesterday. This time it was Spring Lake, not far from here. If this is true, it is most uncommon. We have never heard of a shark attacking a man, and now we have heard stories of two in just one week. I imagine that the news will disrupt activity at the shore. Luckily for us, all we have to worry about is the odd catfish nipping our toes. I tried to talk Mary into coming for a swim sometime, but she said she prefers to watch me from the bank. I think she's just being shy. She said that she would not want Captain Cattral to see her in a bathing gown. And I think she may have a good point. She's smart. She is. Surely the shark business is just people's imagination getting the best of them. There are no sharks in New Jersey. July 7, 1916. 217 PM. Stanley just phoned and said that Captain Cattral reported another shark attack on the shore. They did not believe him at first, but the newspaper confirmed it. It was at Spring Lake this time. Which means much more to do about it, I'm sure. Stanley said that a scientist in the paper insisted that sharks do not come to New Jersey, and even if they did, they would not be interested in humans. I just do not know what to think. Sharks biting people in New Jersey. Who ever heard of such a thing? Stanley swims in the creek, but you would not catch me dead in there. You cannot see six inches into the water. Besides, Captain Cattrell is always running up and down in his motor boat. And let me just say that he will never see me in a skirt, in stockings. The very thought makes me pale. July 8, 1916 03:00. P.m. Press conference went well enough. Lucas was met with questions straight away. The first blasted question asked what he would tell the 30 mayors of the Jersey shore about their beaches. High loath reporters. We did our best to calm nerves. Lucas is convinced that it was mistaken identity and that the incidences are merely a sad coincidence. He avoids using words like man eater and does a much better job with the press than Murphy or I could. Asbury park has erected wire netting and that, along with caution, should do for now. It is highly unlikely that we should ever hear of another shark incident on this coast. Even so, this is rich with opportunity for our records. A man has never been attacked by a shark before in the United States, and I go to see them tomorrow. July 9, 1916 02:55. P.m. Just return from the examination of victim number two, charles Brooder, Spring Lake Swift's, with no family in the States. The Times was correct in its story. Both legs were taken, one at the knee and one at mid. Calf lifeguards rode out in a boat this time and pulled his body in. One remarked about how light it was, not realizing initially the legs were missing. Most disturbing, the flesh was torn in strips, jagged, the bone splintered like wood. There is no doubt that this was the result of a shark. But what species could it be? A rogue great white. The President has mobilized the Coast Guard. I am reporting news to his men now. July 91916. Dear diary. My brother told me today in church that another man was eaten by a shark in New Jersey. But Mum said it wasn't true. She said they both got bit and died. But sharks only go into the ocean and I don't need to be scared of them. In Matawan, mom said after supper tonight she's going to talk to her aunt on the telephone. And my brother and I could talk to our friend and Matawan because he has a telephone now, too. July 10, 1916 08:00. A.m. Dear diary, my brother and I talked to our friend on the telephone last night. It was really swell. Mom says that he's a hooligan, but my brother said he's a good egg and swim is good too. We asked him about the sharks and he said nobody there talked about it, but they are sad. He said we could sneak into the dock at the New Jersey Clay Company and no sharks are there. July 11, 1916 11:00 p.m.. Dear diary, it has now been ten days since we lost my brother. I miss him so much. We all do. His car is still in front of the house and I catch myself seeing him behind the wheel. After the second attack, a scientist who studies ocean fish came to Spring Lake. He's having a hard time with the local journalists. They've printed that my brother was bitten by a giant sea turtle. They've written that it was a bloodthirsty rogue shark. The scientist makes claims of sensationalism and pleads for patience. He says that only a great white has been known to attack a human and that there are none. In New Jersey. Resorts have hired armed guards to patrol the beaches. They've erected wire nets for bathing areas. I never want to see the ocean again. July 11, 1916 09:15 p.m.. Dear diary, I'm in bed now. My brother is teasing me. He said that when we go back to Matawan it's going to be scary. He said that last summer he felt something touch him underwater by the dock and he said it was a shark. Probably I'm supposed to be asleep now because it's my bedtime and we leave early in the morning. I'm scared of the shark, but I don't want him to know because he'll tease me again. July 12, 1916, 811 a. M. Back at the museum at last. Seems like all is calm now. It has been nearly a week since the brutal attack. The media has taken a rest for the time being. There is much research to be done now. Lucas and Murphy are keen to hear my account. Everyone looks to us now for answers, and for now my colleagues are deferring to me as the only ichthyologist popular theories abound. Ship sinkings and sailor deaths in the North Sea are creating a taste for human flesh. Naval bombings are driving European sharks this way. Some have even said it was a purposeful conspiracy of the Germans to lure us into war. It's tiresome to deal with such poppycock. My strongest inclination is that there is a Pacific weather phenomenon known as El Ninja that has shifted the warm Gulf Stream closer to shore. This has brought sharks that have never been to our waters. More later. July 12, 1916 02:15 p.m.. I am famished. Mary said she would bring lunch by after she finished her tutoring and she cannot arrive soon enough. In fact, I believe I see her coming my way now. She told me last night that today marks one month from when I first called on her. It's hard to believe that much time has passed. We should do something special. Maybe I should close the shop early and take her into Philadelphia for dinner. She is closer now, and the sun is cast. An angelic glow around her head. Or perhaps that is not the son. I may curse myself by writing it down, but I believe I might love her. July 12, 1916. Dear Diary, I feel positively on cloud nine this morning. Today marks one full month since Stanley first called. Everything is going so well. I hate to tempt fate by writing about it, but I think that I may be in love. It gives me goosebumps to even write such a thing. I stopped by his shop yesterday evening and he was going out with a man to play baseball with the boys. He invited me to come along and watch and was surprised to learn that I enjoyed the game very much. It's very exciting to me and there's a great level of skill involved. He is so wonderful with the boys. They love him and fight over whose team he should play on. It has been a full week since any word of shark attacks. We are all relieved to know that it is over. The scientists from New York are learning what happened and trying to decide why this occurred. It is largely perplexed them. I do not plan to go to the ocean anytime soon. Even so, I don't like the boys in my class or Stanley swimming much at all. But the creek feels like a much safer option. July 12, 1916 08:00. A.m. Dear Diary, I had a bad dream that a giant fish with a big mouth ate me. I don't know if it was a shark because I've never seen one. It was as big as a streetcar and had long teeth and were red. I was swimming in the creek with my brother and my friend but they looked different. The fish bit my leg and pulled me in the creek but I came up and I was in the ocean. My aunt was on the beach in a wooden chair but she could not hear me scream. Then my brother was in a boat beside me and I tried to climb in. He laughed and kicked me until I fell on the ocean and the big fish bit me again until he ate me. I woke up and my brother said I was screaming. So I guess I really did scream when I was asleep. I don't want to go to Madeline anymore. Maybe I can fake sick and stay in Cliffwood. We leave on the 930 train. July 13, 1916. 12:15 P.m.. Shocking news today. We're at in from marijuana, New Jersey of three shark attacks in the tidal creek. This is very difficult to believe and we all suspect that the state has succumbed to shark hysteria. Madeawan is a full 11 miles inland. Very doubtful. Regardless, Dr. Lucas has dispatched me directly. I depart on the morning train. July 14, 1916 03:17 am. Dear Diary It is with a broken heart that I write these words stanley is dead. He is gone from me before he was even mine. It has been two days since the awful event. It was a shark. Dear God, a shark. It got him right in front of my eyes. In front of the eyes of many. We buried him at two. Today in the pouring rain I am unable to sleep or eat. I have hardly moved from my bed. Father said it will take time but I will never forget the events of July 12. The image will haunt me to my grave. July 14, 1916. 06:14 p.m. Today I examined two of the victims. A man named Fisher, who was trying to retrieve the body of another victim, a boy named Stillwell. Another boy, Joseph Dunn, is the only survivor and is recovering in the hospital. His left calf is torn to pieces. Fisher's injury was similar to the two at the shore. The right thigh had a deep wound and the femoral artery was severed. There was no way to stop the blood. He was taken in front of dozens of locals, including his new sweetheart. Stillwell was not recovered until the following day. His left ankle was chewed off left thigh mangled from hip to knee. His left abdominal region was open and his intestines were nearly all torn out. The right hip, chest muscle and left shoulder were also lost. His right leg and face were the only parts untouched. July 15, 1916 09:47 p.m. I have just returned to my boarding house after two days of chaos. Madeawan has turned into a battleground. Men dangle legs of lamb and sides of beef from the bridges. There's a near constant barrage of exploding dynamite. Women line the banks with rifles. Their methods are not safe, but I cannot deny my desire to catch the beast. I believe that the shark is moving north and attacking people on its journey. I suspect it is either a rogue white or a tiger shark that has strayed thousands of miles from its natural environment. July 16, 1916. 08:13 p.m. Back at the museum again. The shark hunt in marijuana seems to be working but I doubt that any caught so far are responsible. Could be the work of more than one. A local sea captain named Cattrell caught a sevenfooter and has it on ice and town a nickel per viewing. A nine footer was captured in Long Branch. \u00a3325. Lucas informed us that a man drowned at the Atlantic Highlands yesterday. People were afraid he was being attacked by a shark. The headlines now reach all the way from London. A parcel was delivered today from the men who captured a seven footer. It contained human bones taken from the belly and a description dark, dull, blue white belly. They said a man's head could fit inside its mouth. Sounds like a small great white to me. Upon examination, however, the bones, while human, were from the lower arm. All five victims in New Jersey were attacked at the legs. This means there's been at least one unreported attack. People will never hear the word shark again without feeling fear. July 24, 1916, 12:14 p.m.. It has been nearly two weeks since I lost Stanley, though I can still smell him on my clothes. Each day brings new promise only to shatter again. I feel like the story must be recorded as hard as it is for me to write it. I was at his shop in the afternoon on July 12 when some boys ran down the street by the shop in a panic, shouting about a shark in the creek. Stanley dismissed them at first, but I saw that the boys were naked and pale as ghosts. They said that a shark had taken Lester still well on the creek. Stanley did not hesitate for even a moment. He said that Lester had the fits and that if he did not get to him soon, he would be finished. He grabbed Red and Arthur Smith and was gone before I could stop him. I arrived at the creek several minutes after Stanley. He was in a row boat with Arthur and Red searching for Leicester. They dragged chicken wire under the boat to try and find him. The water was red with blood and people began to arrive in a panic. Stanley became frustrated and suggested they dive for him. They all changed into bathing suits behind a tree and one by one entered the water. They searched for a while and were losing hope and cold. Red said they should call it off, and they all began to come to the bank. Stanley decided to take one more dive. He went deeper than before, you could tell. Stanley surfaced, holding what remained of Lester's still all in his arms. He was walking toward the bank, knee deep in water, when the beast took him by the right leg. He dropped Lester and yelled, he's got me. The sharks got me. Those words ring in my head. I do not remember what happened after that. They told me that a deputy was able to fight off the shark with an oar and that Stanley was aware of what happened. His only words were oh, my God. A doctor applied a rope to his sky and they took him by train to Monmouth Memorial Hospital. He died there hours later without me by his side. What if you were a gigantic snack food maker and you had to wrestle a massively complex supply chain to satisfy cravings from Tokyo to Toledo? So you partner with IBM Consulting to bring together data and workflow so that every driver and merchandiser can serve up jalapeno, sesame and chocolate covered goodness with real time, data driven precision. Let's create supply chains that have an appetite for performance. IBM let's create. Learn more at IBM. Comconsulting. Josh, my friend, do you know where your passport is right now? Well, you better dig it up because Adventure is around the corner and there's a card that's going to get you closer with the City Advantage Platinum Select Card. Every swipe earns you Advantage miles and loyalty points and two times Advantage miles at restaurants and gas stations so your everyday purchases can take your travel to new heights. Plus, card members get access to built in travel benefits. For example, your first check bag is free on domestic travel, so you and your family have room to pack for every possibility, like coming home with extra souvenirs and with preferred boarding, you'll be in your seat sooner, ready for takeoff into Adventure. The hard part is deciding where you'll go first, because when you earn 50,000 Advantage bonus miles after qualifying purchases, adventure is on so fast in your seatbelt and put away your tray table because there's so much world to see. And the city advantage. Platinum Select Card is your ticket. You can learn more at city comAdventure and travel on with City Advantage. August 15, 1916 05:15 PM. Dear diary, I am in St. Peters Hospital in a town called New Brunswick. It has been a month since I wrote in my journal and it's because I was bitten by a shark. My brother feels bad about teasing me now and is very nice to me. We were swimming at the dock with our friends in Madeline and an old man came by in a boat yelling Sharp. My brother and the others got to the dock and got out, but I was behind them. I got all the way to the ladder when I felt something bite me very hard. It was a shark and it pulled me back into the water. My brother and my friend jumped in and pulled me away from the shark and they put me on the dock. I don't remember anything after that. I woke up in a hospital and my leg hurt very bad. I have had three surgeries and my doctor put new skin on my leg. He said I'm going to be okay. My mom cried when she saw me, but I told her it didn't hurt. The nurse here is nice and gives me candy. She says I had bad dreams when I first got here about the shark, but now I'm not scared anymore. The people that work here called me Little Jonah because he was eaten by a whale. August 21 PM. Dear Diary, they let me walk today with crutches and it hurt some. The doctor said that it will not hurt forever. My mom told me today about the other people in MADELEYOne who died because of the shark. Some boy named Lester stillwell. Then a man who tried to save Lester. I think his name was Stanley. That makes me sad for their families. They say that I'm brave, but four people got killed by the shark, and I think the least I could do is feel fortunate. I'm okay. October 15, 1916, 10:13 p.m.. It has been three months since the terror at Matajuan Creek. Joseph Dunn fully recovered and was released home one month ago. My final thoughts on what happened in New Jersey this summer whether sharks in general are more numerous in our waters this summer than during previous years may be seriously questioned. Notwithstanding the way in which local fishermen and the crowd of incoming steamers have vied in frightening the public, shark stories with a certain foundation and truth will always be forthcoming when reporters have been ordered to get them. It may be recalled that the summer of 1915, although marked by no such horrifying events as we have known this year, was nevertheless popularly considered an exceptional shark season. So now we must move forward and try to learn from the events of July 1916, a summer that I believe in the future may be remembered not only as a terrible tragedy, but as the birth of modern theology. Wow. Holy cow. That was chilling. Chucky did so good with this. Jerry did great. Jerry Sound designed the whole thing. Oh, yeah. And then Robert and Jonathan and Katie and Rachel and the mystery boy. Everyone did a great job, and that was it. I hope you guys enjoyed it. That's a heck of a way to wrap it up. That was that. How about the familiar sign off? Let's hear it for Chuck Bryant first, everybody. Way to go, Chuck. Writer, producer, director, I believe. Yeah, I guess there's a little direction going on. Yeah. Triple threat. Yeah. Okay. Well, if you want to contact us, you can tweet to us at SYSK podcast. You can join us on Facebook.com to tell Chuck what a great job he did with us, and you can send us an email, wrap it up, spank it on the bottom. Send it off to stuffpodcast@discovery.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseofworks.com. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means schools out, the sun's shining, the daylights longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgara and Georgia Hard Stark, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early on Amazon music. 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How Caving Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-caving-works | Entrances to the underworld have been places of wonder for eons, and humans have ventured into caves to sleep, hunt, create art and explore. Thanks to the hobby of caving, that tradition continues today. Bonus: Chuck discusses his caving experience. | Entrances to the underworld have been places of wonder for eons, and humans have ventured into caves to sleep, hunt, create art and explore. Thanks to the hobby of caving, that tradition continues today. Bonus: Chuck discusses his caving experience. | Thu, 29 Nov 2012 22:28:02 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2012, tm_mon=11, tm_mday=29, tm_hour=22, tm_min=28, tm_sec=2, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=334, tm_isdst=0) | 47447212 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, buddy, if you don't mind if I plug my movember page real quick. Please do. I am growing a mustache this month for November. For for cancer research, specifically male prostate cancer research. That's right. And you can donate to my team, which would be pretty cool because you get a free podcast, and it'd be nice to throw a little money toward cancer research. Yeah, Chuck's being nice. Here. Give him some money. He's growing on facial here to help a charitable organization engage in really important scientific research. That's right. And you can go to Mobro Cocharles Bryant that is my page. Or just go to the mobilever site, type in Charles Bryant in the search bar and look for the picture of me. There's only a couple of us out there, Chuck's, wearing a red shirt. That's right. Yeah. So what is that again? That's Mobro Cocharles Bryant. Yes. Thank you in advance. Yeah. That's nice, Chuck. All right, let's get to it. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. I am an MC of sorts. Not the cool kind, the boring kind. With me, as always, is MC. Charles W. Chuck Bryant. He's the same kind of MC that I am. Sucker MC. No, not even. Okay? We're not even sucker MC. We're too square for that. Even. So sad. Maybe sucker MC, but certainly not with an A. Yeah, I'm a sucker, right? MC. Yeah. Two square to be a sucker. That is a T shirt. I'll bet it is. Now, number two, the square shape. Number two, the letter B or two squared two with two to the second power. Two squared, two B. Asaka. Yeah, that's it. We've reached the point where you say stuff and people make T shirts of it. One of these that we're going to hit it rich and we can quit this whole podcast in game. Retire on our fortune, never will be rich oldman podcasting. Still, if only. Hey, Chuck. Hey. Are you doing well? Yeah. I remembered that you actually have done this before, what we're about to talk about. I have. And you had a good time, didn't you? Yeah. I'll be offering my personal insights along the way. Good. I was hoping so. That's what I was getting at. Yes. Okay. So I read this article in Slate. It's called America's ancient cave art. And back in the late seventy s, there were a couple of friends who worked for the US forestry Service and I think Tennessee, and they were running around the forest and they found a cave and they started to explore it and they went into it and they noticed there were all these weird scratches on the wall. And when they looked a little closer, like, wait, that's not a scratch. That's a snake with horns, and that's a bird that is tearing the head off of something else. And one of them luckily, realized that these are all images associated with what's called the Southeastern Ceremonial Complex, or more coolly named the Southern Death Cult, which sprung up around the southeastern United States inexplicably about 1200 years ago. There was, like, the author of the article called a Religious Outbreak that they have no idea where it came from. But the weird thing about this is that these drawings were completely preserved. Like, you could still smear the charcoal. Wow. And even though they were anywhere from 500. And they found some others that are up to like 6000 years old, and they're all in this enormous elaborate cave system in the southeastern United States, specifically the Cumberland Plateau in Tennessee. But what's most remarkable, aside from their preservation, is that some of these are like a mile into the cave. Wow. So some of the Mississippi people were running around, walking a mile into a cave to leave this art, and it was perfectly preserved. That's pretty cool. Even though almost every other trace of this religious outbreak, the Southern Death Cult is gone. Wow. Isn't that cool? That's awesome. So I bring that up because that is one of the big reasons that people go caving, which ultimately is entering a cave. Once you walk into a cave, you're caving, right? Yeah, I think so. Wasn't Southern Death Cult the original name of the cult, the band? Yes, it was. And they changed it. Southern death to the cult. So much better. Yeah, it's great. I mean, it's one of the coolest names anyone has ever come up with. And it's an archeological term. Yeah. So it's got academic meaning as well. Right. All right, well, aside from the poor name change, I like the band. Yeah, it's a good band. I used to you don't like them anymore? Well, I mean, it's just that sort of represented like, high school to me in early college. They still hold up. Yeah. It's not like I don't like it. I got you. Philly Duffy plays a mean guitar. All right, so spelunking. Should we go ahead and get this out of the way? That's another word for caving. There an Atari game named Spelunker. I think so. But cavers don't really use that term a lot. They use it derogatorily. Yeah, I think that is the case. I'm trying to remember because I went caving, like you said. Go ahead and set that up for the rest of the show with my former neighbor who was a fan of the show. Your former neighbor? Did you guys have a spat? We don't talk anymore. I refuse to acknowledge his president. No, he moved. Okay. That's the other way that happened. Yeah. He lived across the street and left a letter in my mailbox one day and was like, hey, dude, I heard you mentioned it might have been after the biospherelogy. Right. Which will touch on it again. Said, I'm an experienced caber. Me and my buddy would love to take you. And you guys, too. Yeah. We were invited originally. It was all four of us, and it ended up being just me. Right. The day came, I was like, let's see. Crawl around in the cold in a cave, get wet and muddy. I'm going to stay home. Well, after I did it, I was like, I'm so glad Emily and you, me and Josh didn't come. You guys wouldn't like that. Yeah. There's a good picture of you on Facebook where you're covered in mud. Yes. I'll post more pictures when this comes out. Okay. Yeah. I'll touch on it as we go. But the first thing I want to point out is that a cave can be a thing that you picture when you picture a cave. Which is like. You're walking along and there's a big huge entrance that you're looking at. And you walk in. Or in this case. It can be a little hole in the ground. Which is when I walked by. I was like. That's where we're going? And he was like, yeah. I was like, really? It's like a two foot little hole in the ground. Yeah. It looked like maybe a place where foxes live or something. Yeah. He's like, no, that's how you get in there. I was like, okay. You're like, that's how you get in there, pal. But it ended up being, aside from the most physically challenging thing I've ever done, one of the coolest things I've done. It was very difficult, but you nail it on the head. A cave is basically any opening from the surface below ground yeah. Into the Earth. Right. And for the most part, when we think of a cave, it's part of something called a carset landscape, which is characterized by, like, sinkholes underground, aquifers subterranean drainage, caves. A cave system. Yeah. It's technically called a CARST landscape. Yeah. Well, once you read that, you kind of take it for granted. But if you never really thought about it I hadn't ever thought about it. I was like, well, why are these caves even here? Right? Someone didn't come in here and carve these out. No, but some natural processes did that's. Right. There's actually four main ways that caves are created, right? Yeah. Most caves are limestone caves, and you get those when rainwater seeps down through the soil, picks up some CO2 along the way, and that forms carbonic acid, which is kind of weak. It is. But if you have carbonic acid present in the same area for eons, it's going to eventually eat away at even stone. Yeah. Like limestone. And that's basically what happens. It either collects there for a long time or is rushed in there by rain and corrosion is what happens. It's erosion through Abrasion. Through Abrasion. Just basically rainwater running over something long enough, it's going to erode it. And that is how you get a cave one way. Yeah, that's the main way. I think you've got extrema files, which is kind of cool. We're starting to realize I think we talked about them in the Are we all Martin's episode. Yeah. We have an article on extrema files that I have earmarked for us. Okay. That's pretty good. They are basically bacteria that live and thrive in toxic environments. Yeah. Like places where nothing else lives. Right. High sulfuric content are really high temperatures or really low temperatures. They're the only things that live there. And they are starting to realize that they have a pretty big impact on cave formation. For example, there's some that like to eat oil underground. I never knew this. And they eat and eat, and then they shoot ducks of sulfide gas. Right. And the sulfide gas goes up and up and up as gas wants to do. Yeah. And it travels through groundwater, picks up oxygen, and becomes sulfuric acid. And that really starts to eat away at caves. Yes. That's probably more so, I think, than carbonic. Yes. Which is you probably want to look out for the sulfuric acid lake in a cave system if you're ever caving I would say so. Yeah. So that's number two sea caves you'll see a lot. If you ever do sea kayaking and stuff around the island, you might venture into a sea cave. It's pretty cool. They are basically just water pounding away at the seaside cliffs to the point where they form caves. Yeah. Pretty easy. Yeah. Did you ever see the orphanage? The German del Toro movie. No. Dude, you've not seen that? I almost watched it last week. That is one of the best ghost movies ever made. Yeah. I was by myself, and I wanted to watch something scary because it was happening. Oh, dude, that's it. And I searched around on the Internet for, like, what's a really good scary movie? Not some crappy scary movie. And that was on the list, and I ended up searching and researching for so long, I didn't watch anything. Went to sleep. You should have asked me or go on to the social medias. I was looking for some scary movies and got into a conversation with Joe Randallo and a couple of other people and ended up with this list of great horror movies, and all of them panned out. Awesomely. The Devil. Have you seen that? No, dude, that was another one recommended. I love del toro too. Dude, is this, like the Spanish Civil War era or orphanage? No, that's what is that one called? I know the one you're talking about. Double Stack Bone. Yes, I saw that one. That's okay. Compared to the orphanage, it might as well have been, like, puzzle houses. Hey, I like pEaI. No, I mean, as far as lightfare goes. Yeah. Okay. It's just so much better. I'm watching it. Yeah. And watch House of the Devil too. It's pretty good. I think you like that a lot. Yeah, I like good scary. I don't like all that crappy, saw, like stuff, you know, like shocking torture porn crap. I like the first couple of saws. All right, so that's the third way. That Caesar. Well, that was a good one. The fourth is lava tubes. When lava comes up through a volcano and it shoots up, if the conditions are right, the outer part will cool more quickly than the creamy, gooey middle. Yeah. And when that happens, that our shell will come together and form this coherent crust, and the stuff in the middle might fall back down. Right. You got yourself a tube. You have a tube of lava. Now, if at the top of this top cave's inner crumbles, all of a sudden you have an entrance, and the lava tube is now a cave, because, again, cave is any entry from the above ground to hell. I imagine the lava tube caves are pretty interesting to explore. Yeah, but I'm a limestone guy. Well, I mean, you don't spend much time in Hawaii. If you did, I'll bet you'd be a lava tube guy, too. Yeah, you're probably right. All right. So once you're in the cave, you're going to notice a couple of things straight away. Stalactites and stalagmites. Okay. Which is which? Man, I feel like we have a golden opportunity here to explain this to thousands and thousands and hundreds of thousands of people. It's very easy. There's a lot of little ways you can remember maybe millions of people stalactites. And that is what the C are the ones that hang down. And you can remember that by maybe hold on tight. They got to hold on tight. Yeah, because it's not stalag tight or stalagmite and stalagmite. It's stalactite. Yeah. With a C and then stalagmite with a G and an M. So that helps, too, because you have C for ceiling or G for ground. Great. There, you just did it. Or T for top, if that helps you. We give you three ways to remember this. I think I messed it up. This is so simple for a second, and then I'm sorry, everyone. So stalactites hang down. Stalagmites come up from the bottom. They are speleotherms, which is a cave formation. And this happens when carbonic acid eats away at the slime stone and it starts dripping. The calcite mineral from rainwater. Yeah. It's just kind of trickling in for centuries. And as it is, it's depositing that calcite. Right. Yeah. So it drips down from the top, so it forms, and then it will not drop up, but collect and form up from the bottom. Sometimes they'll meet and form a column, which is really cool. Yeah, it is. But these things grow at a rate of a quarter inch to an inch per century. Wow. So you can't sit around and watch a stalactite form. That is basically the rule of thumb. So the rainwater comes down and drips down, and whatever deposits are at the top going down is a stalactite. That's right. And it drips down under the ground and builds a formation that grows up towards the top. Yes. That's a stalag mite. And that's why you usually find them together. And stalachine is actually the Greek derivative. It means to drip. Really? So there you have it. That's great, man. And they did mention I looked these up because I've never seen them other spelliotherms like fried eggs and bacon. Did you look these up? No, it's pretty neat. It looks like a fried egg formation. Yeah. Looks like it's large and round and has a center that's very round as well. And then the bacon stuff, it looks like bacon strips. It's like these little strip like formations that have different colored patterns that look like the fatty part of the bacon or the meaty part. Right. And it looks like fried eggs and bacon. I feel like I saw the fried egg one before. Yeah, you probably have. When I saw it, I was like, oh, that's what that is. Fried eggs and bacon. I had to see it because the name wasn't descriptive enough. Yeah. And this just proves that spleeologists are fun loving people. Right. So while you're in the cave, you're probably going to run into certain kinds of animals and asphalogists love to do, they've classified these things into categories. Right? Yeah. We talked about these in biosphere, creepy cave dwelling things. Yes. If you haven't heard that episode, go check it out. It's all about caves and the stuff. Living in caves, it's really cool. But the troglazines, those are temporary visitors, like a bear maybe hibernating in a cave. They live most of their life outside of the cave and come in for shelter, food or something like that. And there's a troggle of files. That means they love the trog. They do. They spend most of their life there. Right. But they will come out some for food. Yeah. But they spend most of their lives in the cave, right? Yeah. Salamanders crickets. Daddy long Legs. Yeah, daddy long legs and other spiders. I love them. And then there's the chocolate bites. Yes. Those are ones who live their entire lives within the dark zone of the cave. And usually they don't have eyes. And apparently, without exception, they're all blind. Like the prometheus salamander. Yeah, I remember that thing. The Ozark blind. Salamander the Tooth cave spider, which isn't as creepy looking as it sounds. I expected to see something out of a B movie, but it was just like a little skinny spider. Okay, but if you name something, the tooth cave spider, you expect some really scary looking thing. Yeah. Or something with glasses and huge buck teeth. Yeah, same with the tooth cave beetle. And they're also blind fish and shrimp and all manner of little white, creepy creatures. Yeah. They lack pigment because they don't need it. Yeah, like screw pigment. What do we need that for? And then this kind of stuck out to me, the idea that it's always the average annual temperature of the surface above the cave within the cave. So if it's the average temperature over the course of an entire year in the spot above a cave is 65 degrees, it's always 65 degrees in the cave. Not true. Oh, that's not true? No. The temperatures in the cave are very stable, but depending on how deep it is, the closer you get to the center of the Earth, the warmer it gets. So that has an effect. And just like above ground with the sun, warming the surface differently causes weather, different amounts of heat inside a cave because what we wouldn't recognize is weather, but actual weather itself. So is this wrong? Yes, the way it stated, it's always the average annual temperature. Yeah, but generally it is yeah, it's usually very stable and it's very close to that. But we're finding now that there is actual weather that happens in a cave, just like we found out there's seasons on the bottom of the sea floor. It seems like the same thing to us, but there's actually like seasons and changes that we didn't recognize because we don't think of it that way. Yeah. Caves sometimes can be dry and dusty. I guess it all depends on where you are in the country. But when I went to and like, many caves are wet and muddy and I was not expecting that. I was not expecting a lot of what I encountered, actually. Really? Were you prepared for a wet money? Oh, yeah. They told me what to wear and we'll get into all that stuff, but I don't know, I thought I was going to be walking into a thing and then walking around sort of like the kid caves that you can take the whole family to. Right. But yeah, it wasn't like that at all. It was being dropped into a muddy, wet, cold hell. Yeah, and you looked like it too, man, afterward. Yeah. You were really glad to be top side again. It was weird coming out, I'll say that. So why did you go? Why would anybody go? What's the allure of Caving, the unknown and the thrill of discovery. Oh, yes. Well, it's true though. That's what the article says. But I don't mean to be glib. It is very cool and way different down there. Like, you get a sense that it is not the same topside as it is in the bowels of the Earth. Very different place and very cool to experience firsthand. And as we mentioned, there's a lot of good opportunities for cave archeology because the climate and temperature in the cave is so stable. Things left in caves are really well preserved. Yeah, and the caves were a good place for ancient rituals and things. And they mentioned the cave art in France. Yeah, in let's go. Have you seen this stuff? Yeah. Holy cow. It looks like artwork painted on canvas. Some of it does. It's not like just scratchy cave drawings. Like, this stuff is really beautiful. Yeah, and they found this in 1940. They discovered this in France from the Paleolithic era. 17 to 20,000 years old and over 2000 figures drawn. From what I understand, like, the granddaddy of all cave drawing scores was here in France. Here in France. There in France. Well, there's also another one called Chauville Cave in France. And that's what we're in herzog's Cave of Forgotten Dreams is. I never saw that. Oh, you didn't? I'll watch anything that he's in now. Ordinary. He does so much narrating. He's a bad guy. Is it the new bond? No. Is that right now he's a bad guy in some movie coming up. And I was like, oh, that's brilliant. Yeah, no one sounds more diabolical than French. Yeah, it's perfect. But yeah, that's a good one too. I think they shot it in 3D as well. It's supposed to be like, really good. Oh, wow. Yeah, check that one out. It's very interesting because they figure out that they're like, why would these idiots draw bison with eight legs? Was there an eight legged bison back then? Somebody figured out that if you look at it by torch light, not electric torch, but real fire torch. Does it move? It moves. Oh, my God, that is so cool. Yeah. Wow, that's awesome. Yeah. I highly recommend you guys go and Google image these. L-A-S-C-A-U-X. France. And it's all over the place. And what was the other one? Chauvelt. C-H-U-V-E-T. Yeah. Very cool stuff. And see Kaiba forgotten Dreams, if you're into that. I mean, it's a lot of cattle drawings, granted, but it's better than you would think, right, considering they're doing this on a cave 20,000 years ago. Exactly. There's also Biospeleology, which we talked about at length and we don't need to really get into here again, goes into the biosphereology episode. But that's another reason people go through caves. But ultimately, I think the first sentence was the right one. It's like the thrill of discovery and unknown. Yeah, there's so few people doing any actual caving and enough caves out there that you got a pretty good shot of finding something that no one else has seen for 10,000 years or maybe ever. Yeah, that's pretty cool in cavers, too. Part of being a cave or a spellingst is being into conservation and preservation. And that's one thing I learned from my buddy Eric and his friend. They were like casual speedunkers that were in there. Clearly didn't know what they were doing, weren't dressed for it, didn't have the proper equipment. And of course, these guys are just like, these are the people that get us in trouble, or that get in trouble, that we need to come help get out of trouble. But I think serious cavers are uniformly way into preserving the cave. Sure. Like, they don't just go cave and like, yeah, that was cool. They're all into the meetings and the preservation. A lot of them do the volunteer for search and rescue and stuff like that. They really get into it. It's not a casual affair. No. That idea actually extends to urban spelunking or urban exploration, where you enter something like a sewer system or an abandoned building or something like that. But one of the big rules is, like, you can't break and enter. You can enter. Somebody else has already cut a hole in the chain link fence. You go through that hole, you can't cut that hole yourself. And you don't take anything. You preserve the place exactly the way it was. And we actually have, I think, what's? A new article on the site. That is awesome. Top ten cities for urban exploration. Oh, yeah. It's, like, got all these attractions of where to go in the city and what to explore. It's very cool. Well, Francis the catacombs I know are really popular. Yeah. And I did a little bit of that in Florida. In Fort Pickens, in Pensacola. Oh, the fort pickens catacombs. Well, the fort pickens battery. It was like Civil War battery. Oh, yeah. And I think it's all blocked off now, but at the time, the metal bars were bent enough where you could get through. And me and my brother and my brother in law, like, made torches and went all through the awesome stuff. Where did you find stuff written on the walls from the Civil War and then stuff written on the walls. Clearly more modern in nature, but just graffiti and stuff and beer cans. But it was just neat walking around. It's cool. What else, Chuck? How to get started? Yeah, I guess if this podcast tickles your fancy, then you may want to know how to get into this. Yeah. A lot of people might be into the very easy guided, you walk in and you walk around type of experience. Right. Take the kids. There's nothing wrong with it. You can still learn a lot. It's not a cop out like Carlsbad Caverns and, like, the real touristy ones. They're great. Yes. Have you ever been there? I haven't been there. I've been to Ruby Falls. You mean I went yeah. Ruby Falls is nice. It was, yeah, and there was plenty of people running around. It was very well lit, safe. Yeah, but it was so awesome getting to the falls. Yeah, it was great. I think part of the reason I appreciate it so much because I took it for what it was, it was like, this is tourism. Yeah. But it's also very cool. You're walking underneath a fault line in the earth. It's really kind of you can sell T shirts afterwards, but it's still very cool to be in there. Exactly. So you can do that. You can go to these, like, really big touristy ones and still get a nice experience, or you can get a guided tour for a little more intense experience. Have you been? In Carl State Cavern. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's nice. It's lovely. It's like red carpet everywhere. Yes. Couches everywhere. But they do mentioned in this article that kids are great to taking the caves. They love that kind of stuff. Obviously, you want to keep an eye on them because it's pretty easy to get lost in there. Yeah. But these big major attractions, they take care of you. Right. They're not going to let your kid go off and live with the Salamanders. Yeah. And you've got a guide for the guided tour. But even self guided tours, it's usually like paved or clearly marked trail. You're going to have a lot of trouble getting lost if you get off of this trail. Or if you stay on the trail, I should say. Yeah. I went to a concert in a cave one time. Really? Yeah, in Tennessee. Man. What's the name of it? Something Caverns. I can't remember now, but the Silver Jews played their last show ever in this cave. Oh, yeah? And they have regular shows there. Usually it's like bluegrass and stuff, but it's awesome. You park in this big field, and then it's one of these where you walk into a huge opening and there's big paths, but you walk, like, probably half a mile down in there, and then it opens up to this huge open room, and there's a stage, and there's lights and everything. That's cool. It's a really cool experience. I wonder what the green room is like there. I don't know. It's probably brown. Just sit on that rock won't bring you some shrimp. Yeah. It was really very cool show, though. I might post pictures of that, too. Okay. Wow. It's going to be a picture of an anza. Then there's cave diving. Yes. Probably the most dangerous thing a person can do. Yeah, we can't overstate that enough. Like, even these cavers dudes that I was with that are hardcore. They were like, Those people are crazy. Yeah. And if you're a hardcore scuba diver, even a wreck diver, that doesn't mean you're a cave diver. No, cave diver is its own thing. Yeah. And it's very easy to die in 2012. Seven people already died in cave diving in 2012 now. Wow. Three of them in three different days. Three consecutive days in Florida in three different incidents. Yeah. In March. Yeah. It's scary. And I asked Eric, I was like, well, what's the big deal? And he's like, Dude, you got to be crazy to do it. He's like, you are underground, underwater, and it's very easy to get lost and turned around, and you've only got so much air. They say that to try and exit with half a tank of air still or whatever. It was not air. What is it? It's compressed air. Okay. Compressed it there's, like an air mix, but it's generally air. Yeah, but they're like, you don't. Want to go below half a tank ever. It's just scary. I'm sure. And he took me after we went Caving, he took me to the entry point for the cave diving nearby. And it's this little probably ten foot by ten foot hole, little pool, but it's like infinitely deep. Right. And it's like wow. So you can jump in and just sort of waddle around or below that, there's the tube where you enter. And it just seemed like the scariest thing ever. Right. With a tank of air on your back that could be punctured by anything because it's not like there's not stalactites hanging down. Yeah. It's utterly frightening to me. That said, if you are in a cave diving, you go through the certification and you are into that kind of thing. There's some awesome cave diving, like cenotes, any cenotes. Yeah. And there's a place that I missed when we were talking about the Abandoned Mines podcast. There's a place called Bonter Mine in Missouri, and it's an old lead mine that was in production for like 100 years, and then they closed it down in 1960 and they didn't remove anything. There's like magazines. All this stuff is still sitting around, and they flooded it with like a billion gallons of crystal clear water. Really? And you can go scuba dive. You can cave dive this abandoned mine now. Wow. And see, there's like an old movie theater down there. Really? There's minecars elevators. Yeah, it's pretty cool. That's awesome. Yeah. But it's like the visibility is just limitless. Wow. Yeah. I wonder if that's slightly safer. I think it's pretty heavily guided as far as tours go. So if you're going to start somewhere, that would probably be a good place. Okay. Yeah. I saw a couple of dudes come out of the hole, and all the cavers know each other, it seems like, because they knew these guys and they were like, oh, yeah, these guys are really nice. And then they turned around, they're like, they're nuts. These guys are crazy. Yeah. Oh, so all the cavers know each other because they're all members of Grottos, right? Yeah, it definitely seems like a close knit community. Right. Like, they're all on each other that have each other's contact info, because when someone gets lost, they send out who can come and help, basically. Right. Who's free tomorrow to come and find these idiots? Tomorrow. They're in trouble if it's tomorrow. Yeah, that's true. Well, Aggrado is a Caving club, right? And any legitimate Caving club is sanctioned by the National Speedealogical Society. And there's about 200 Caving clubs or Grottos in the US. Nice, good people. So if you're a member of a Grotto, if you're a caver, what are some of the things that you're going to need? You're already into this. You're like, come on, let's go. What are we going to do? What do I need to take with me? Well, you want to take three forms of light and plenty of backup batteries. And take glow sticks, take the headlamps, take lighters, even though those will get wet. You can bag them in the dry bag, but take as many forms of light as you feel comfortable with. That's not less than three. I took, like four or five lights. That's smart. Yeah. And I knew I was going to be fine, but I was just like, you know what? I'm going into the depths of the earth. I want to have lots of light at my disposal. Right. And you want to also have lots of batteries and extra bulbs for those lights. Sure. Because your light is the number one most important thing when you're caving. That's the number one most important piece of equipment. Yeah. And my buddy Eric had a carbide lamp, which, back in the day, even car headlights and lights on the fronts of houses, it wasn't always a gas lamp. Sometimes it was carbide. And old school cavers used these things, and it's basically a chemical reaction that burns acetylene gas, and it's created from a reaction of calcium carbide with water. So he had this pod that he carried on his belt that had carbide pellets in it, and it would drip water down and create the gas. And it fed it up through a tube connected to the gas lamp that he's wearing on his head. And it was really cool. The other guy didn't have one, but Eric used it. And the light that it gives is just really very illuminating. It's not like how incandescent light is just so specific. Even if it's like a broad range, it's not like having a flame. Right. So this thing really warms up the cave. It does actually warm it slightly, but just generally with light warmth. It's just like the K was illuminated. Not like a flashlight shining on something. Right. Very cool, nice and very durable. Like, if you take care of these things, they're a little finicky, but if you take care of them, you can have them, like, your whole life. Sounds kind of newfangled. No, it's very old school. Well, old fangled. Yeah. It's old fangled. Yeah. And you just look cool. Eric looked like a cool guy with this tube running out of his head and flicking the little lighter switch, and he looked cooler than I did right. With my glow stick. So you need light. You need light. You need a helmet. And you want your helmet to be certified by the Union International Day Associations dow peas. Yes. Jerry just laughed at me. You want a helmet, and this is if you want to do it right and safely. We saw morons and tank tops and shorts walking around and crawling around, and these guys are just rolling their eyes. Those are the people that get hurt and get lost. Right. We had knee pads and elbow pads, helmets. As far as safety gear, that was pretty much it. And they have, like, rope and stuff, just in case. And you want to dress appropriately in layers. Avoid cotton. Well, if you are wearing cotton, you want to wear under layers of synthetics. They snag less easily, they dry more quickly. I would imagine you just want to avoid cotton altogether, if possible. Yeah. Or one of those, like, synthetic wicking shirts. The workout shirts. Yeah. But you do you want to dress in layers because it's cold in there, but you may raise your heart rate here or there, and you may get a little warm. That definitely makes my heart rate. Yeah. You're going to get wet. Most likely. You can be in a dry, dusty cave, but chances are you're going to get wet. There were times where we were up to our chest in a crevice about 2ft wide up to our chest in water, and it's intimidating. It's like, I'm far away from anybody. And what if this water rises? I mean, it didn't, but what if it started raining? These things can happen pretty fast down there. Okay. We were literally soaked to the bone. It's like getting a swimming pool, and then you get out and you're covered in mud, and you're supposed to climb things. That's like climbing a greased wall of stone. I'm like, Am I supposed to really do this? And they were, like, pushing me by my butt. It was sort of embarrassing, like, pulling me. It felt like a stuck pig at times. The only thing that made it better was the warm glow of the carbide. And then they had the pancakes where it's like, I'm surprised my body fit in this thing. And you had to go, like, 30ft across this pancake. What is it? Well, it's where there's a top rock and a bottom rock. So basically, you just oh, got you. There's, like, a foot of space to crawl through. And you can't even crawl. You're, like, inching using your shoulder blades. I would have lost my mind. You would not have liked this pancake. And that's when I remembered thinking, boy, Josh would not have liked this part. No, it was uncomfortable for me, and I don't even have issues with closing spaces. But you feel like, what if the Earth shifted it and this thing just smashed me? Yeah, of course the Earth doesn't shift like that, but I don't know, it could. I'm down there. I'm freaking out. Yeah. And you made it, though. Yeah, I don't want to spoil it. Yeah, you survived. What else do you need? Food and water. Yeah, sure. You want enough to last your whole trip and then some, just in case, like, you want gloves, you want a first aid kit. Yeah. And here's my favorite part. So we were talking about how you just preserve the environment exactly as it was found. This also means that you're not allowed to poop there. You can poop there, but you're going to poop into like, a plastic container that you can carry out with you because you take your urine and your feces out of the cave with you. So you want a plastic bottle to pee into and, like, a good crush proof container to poop into. I did not poop. I wouldn't have pooped. I'd just be like, Well, I guess I'm not pooping today. Yeah, I was only down there a few hours, so if you can't hold your poop a few hours, you probably shouldn't be caving that day, man. Just put it off. Imagine getting sick down there. Like vomiting? No, I'm not sure what you mean. The other kind. Oh, like poopy sick? Yeah, that would be awful. Yes. If you have a cave map, which you should have, bring a few copies, put them in, ziplocs, hand them out to your friends that you're with, make sure everyone knows what's going on. Right. And you also want to probably leave one at home with an X marks the spot of your route. Sure. Well, at least it's the case safety, doesn't it? Yeah. There's a lot of precautions you should be taking before you set out. You know what you're doing. Do not take it lightly. It's not like a hike that you can go on, so it's definitely different. You should go with someone that knows what they're doing, at the very least. A couple of people would be even better. They say not to go in really large groups because you could leave someone behind easier. Like, four to six people right. Is a good number. And you want to put the slowest person at the front of the group. That would have been me. So everybody's kind of pushing them from behind, sometimes literally. And the reason why is because that person doesn't get left behind. That makes the whole group stick together. And if you're into passive aggressive peer pressure, that's great. That's a great situation for everybody. Yeah. No, you're fine. I know. That's what they kept saying, too. You're doing great, buddy. And I was like, no, I'm not. I know. I'm the guy. You also never, ever want to go caving alone. I don't think there's a better sentence that's ever been spoken by anybody. Never go caving alone. It's a good idea. If you do get lost, they say to stay put, and it's better to stay put instead of moving around, because at least you're where you last were. Right. You are where you last were. Well, you said you were going to be. Yeah, at least roughly. If your light goes out and you're alone start screaming at the top of your lungs until someone comes and gets you. That's probably not a bad idea, but they say not to freak out, but yeah, I would definitely try to make a little noise. Although you also don't want to attract the descent. Hillbillies. Yeah, whatever those were, they were mountain folk. You know what? That was a lot like Lovecraft Story, was it? I can't remember the name of it, but there's a whole thing that takes place in the Alleghenies. Maybe Adirondacks somewhere up there where this family that was, like, kind of mountain folk came to embreed and eventually moved underground. It's one of his best ones, man. We should do a podcast on him. Okay. What a twisted mind. Well, we did the Necronomic, I remember. Yeah, but let's just do it on his life. Okay. What made him tick? Let's do it while we're at it real quick. Dude. I found a real legitimate physics paper or written by a legitimate physicist that explains how certain events in lovecraft, the call of Cthulhu, can be explained away by quantum physics. Really? Yeah. It's specifically a gravitational lensing to explain what Cthulhu is. No. Like, what happened to this guy who went mad and described this crazy place that he went and stumbled upon in the South Pacific and then came back and wrote about it? They were like, well, actually wait a minute. What he's talking about is a quantum bubble. Wow. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. He works out math and formulas for explaining all this, but the rest of it is really interesting. Wow. Yeah. I can't remember what it's called, but probably look up the physics of the call of Cthulhu and I'm sure it'll bring it up. It's a good one. That's awesome. So what are some of the big problems you're going to run into, Chuck? Aside from getting lost or running out of light? Hypothermia. Right. Always a concern when you're cold and wet, like I said earlier, flooding of passages, which I was worried about the whole time. Slipping, falling. I was slipping all over the place. It's going to happen in these muddy caves. And I just sort of slid and tried not to pick my face up off the rock, but I definitely got bumps and bruises, and I was really sore the next day. It was like mountain climbing, except underground. And the mountain was slick and muddy. Yes. That's basically kind of what it felt like. Rock climbing was not what I thought it was going to be. Once again, I can't stress that enough. It's not a stroll. I ate my bologna seeming by 10:00 a.m.. Yeah, it was pretty bad, but super fun. And like I said, when you come out, man, it's so weird once you've been underground for that long, when you come out to the real world, everything is just like, hyper colorful and bright and just weird. And it's like, man, there's a whole different world down there that most people don't know about. Nice. I highly encourage it. Just be careful. Yeah, I think that's good advice. Is there anything else in here? Always make sure that several people above ground know where you went, know where you're going, know when you expect to be back. Yeah. And if somebody does get hurt, never leave that person alone. Right. A couple of people have to stay with them. A couple of people have to go top side. The people who go top side need to leave some of their supplies and light and stuff and water back with the people who are hanging out with the injured person. Yes. They need to know exactly where the injured person is so they can tell other people who can come get them out. Right. And they also need to remember to take the car keys with them. Cell phones really kind of important. You don't want to get all the way out there and be like, can you imagine I left the keys in there? Yeah, that would suck. And then like you said, if you ever get lost, you don't want to panic. You want to stay put. You want to rely on your plan, your backup plan, which is letting a bunch of people know that you were supposed to have been home 2 hours ago and you weren't. That's right. And there are thousands of caves in the US. Many of which are very explorable. Just do your research beforehand. Go with someone who knows what they're doing. There are more extreme caves around the world that are very cool to look at, ones that you actually can Skydive into or not Skydive, but base jump into. Boy, I can't imagine Skydiving into one. I think I've seen videos of people based jumping into this is Sotano de lasco Lynn Rina. Yeah, I think Planet Earth, the Discovery show had that. Okay. Yeah, that's where I saw it. It's really cool. And then like you talked about the cenotes. Those are very cool, too. Just be careful that we said that enough. I don't know. I don't think you can because like I said, once you get there, you realize they're just a bunch of dummies no matter what, that are ill prepared locals that are like, yes, I've been down here before. Yeah. Good luck, people. That's all I got to say. Okay, well, if you want to learn more about caving, you can type in Spelunking in the search bar athouseoffworks.com spelunking and it will bring up this article. And I said Spelunky, which means, of course, it's time for listening. Now I'm going to call this Pakistani Pizza. We did a pizza podcast, and we got lots and lots and lots of feedback on that. I knew that was going to be one of those very ubiquitous food that people love to talk about. And this is from and I'm probably going to put your name, sorry, buddy. Nabija Siege. Okay. And he said that he listened to the pizza cast and thought he would drop some 411 on pizza in Pakistan. He's originally from Orlando but currently lives in Karachi for University. And he said here, when you order a pizza, you don't really order toppings, but you order a specific flavor. Although if you're at a pizza place, you can order specific toppings and build your own pizza. This pizza calls it. So they are a little less cooperative when you order for delivery, apparently in Pakistan. So he said your pizza will most likely have some form of chicken on it. And then of course, there's no ham because it's a Muslim country. Pizza Hut alone serves chicken tikka, chicken kari, chicken fajita, hari, chicken f, gan tika, and the spicier fajita Sicilian, as well as vel, as well as the veggie, shawarma, pepperoni, and a couple of other different beef flavors. That's so good. Chicken pizza in Pakistan. Yeah. Here's the kicker for me, guys. Not only do they offer their usual stuffed crust with the ROPA cheese, they also serve beefy Sikh kebab stuff crust. Yes. Wow. Papa John's, wait. I want to just make sure everyone understands what you just said. He said that they offer a pizza with a crust stuffed with kebab. With beef kebab. That sounds delightful. It does. Papa John's offers a more traditional American pizza menu with their various pseudo Italian names, including Chicken Florentine Domino's. Flavors in Pakistan are a little more mainstream American. While they do serve chicken tikka as well as something called Golden Feast or something to that effect, which as far as I know, involves corn, pineapple, and probably chicken. Along with the corporate giants, there are plenty of local chains, oddly generic sounding names, including Pizza Place, pizza Point Pizza, California Pizza, and the list goes on and on. Pizza. Unfortunately, my university and dormer located on the outskirts of town, not in the ideal neighborhood, so these places usually don't deliver, but I suppose that's fine. I don't order a pizza very much here. This Pakistani pizza is kind of small and a bit too cakey and very super ready, but it fills you up and you never leave hungry. I just had a fairly tasty contraption from Pizza Point around 5 hours ago for dinner. I can still feel it in my throat. Lesson learned do not go to bed in the morning, sleep until the evening, and order excess food. Anyways, love the show and lots of love. That is Nabija Siege. Thanks a lot. We'll find out. Nabiha, right? Yes. Thanks a lot for writing and good luck with your study and the pizza. Yes, if you're in a foreign land and you're listening to us and you have some four one one, as Nabia pointed out. Nabia right. We want to hear from it. We want to hear about it from you. You can tweet to us at syscast. You can join us on facebook. Comstuffyteanow, and you can send us an email to stuffpodcast@discovery.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseoffworks.com. Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means schools out, the sun's shining, the daylights longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on amazon Music my Favorite Murder from Exactly Right Media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgarif and Georgia Hardstarkk, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | ||
How Zero Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-zero-works | Few numbers have as storied a past as zero. Even fewer have had as great an impact on our ability to understand our universe. Yet zero is a relatively recent arrival in math. Find out all about this surprisingly fascinating number with Chuck and Josh. | Few numbers have as storied a past as zero. Even fewer have had as great an impact on our ability to understand our universe. Yet zero is a relatively recent arrival in math. Find out all about this surprisingly fascinating number with Chuck and Josh. | Tue, 14 Feb 2012 16:21:29 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2012, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=14, tm_hour=16, tm_min=21, tm_sec=29, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=45, tm_isdst=0) | 29119700 | audio/mpeg | "Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant aunt. And this is a rare, unusual, mathematical episode of Stuff You Should Know. Yes, and I'm just going to step out of the room and I'll be back in, what, 25 minutes. You're going to do this? This is not going to be another Yoyo episode. Oh, I just hate math. This is not math heavy at all. It's about the history of zero. It's about the weirdness of zero. My hero zero. Exactly. So you came over on a spell. People counted on their fingers and toes. I posted that today on Facebook. I don't know what that is. The Schoolhouse Rock. I don't remember my hero zero. I don't remember that one till you came along. Keeping her head on her fingers and toes. It's basically you would appreciate it because it sings what you wrote. Oh, that's great. In a much more basic way, but basically trying to teach kids how amazing zero is. And don't discount it as just a number. It's not the absence of something. Well, there's a lot. There's a bunch to it. It's many things. It's a multifaceted number, not it's a multifaceted entity. Well, Noel is German for zero. Did you know that upkiss? Yeah, but kiss is, I believe, Spanish for zeroch is cajun. I did actually get a little etymology research. Originally, Sanskrit was sunya, which meant empty. Then later, Erbrick was safira or nothing. Then Italian was safero. And then finally, French gave us zero. Right. And we represent zero as something that looks confusingly, like an o. Right. That was the Europeans who did that. Prior to that, the Arabs, and I believe the Indians, too, represented zero with a heavy dot. Do you know where that might have come from? Where? Robert Kaplan's book the Nothing that is a Natural History of Zero. He speculates that the shape comes from the round depression left in the sand, a sand counting board, once you remove a stone from it wow. Would be around thing. That's what he thinks. He speculates. But that wouldn't have been the Europeans. It was the Europeans that came up with that. Well, no, but you said like a heavy dot. Yeah, a heavy dot, a solid. Could be the depression where a stone was in sand. That's a good one. Who was that? Robert Caplan. Thanks, Mr. Kaplan. Well, I guess I feel like we've kind of done a pretty good set up here, Chuck. I think so, too. We've talked about how zeros multifaceted and we talked about the Arabs and the Indians, right? Yeah. And we have to go back even further to first find 10 made itself known. Should we get the way back? Machine. What? Let's blow the dust off of this thing. Sorry. Wow. That was right at you. I think this thing still works? Let's find out. Are you ready? Yeah. Hey, look at there. Wow. Lit up like a flux capacitor. This is nice. We're back in ancient Sumer and these baked clay tablets haven't even been baked yet. They're still wet. Look. Wow. J-O-S-H was here. Cool. So, Chuck, if you look at this clay tablet, do you see these two diagonal lines there's? Little wedges? Yeah. Those, my friend, represent nothing. Really. And the reason they're there is because round about this time, somebody figured out they ran into a problem. And when they were making some sort of tax record or grain inventory, that showing that basically writing out 3000 lines for the 3000 heads of cattle. That doesn't make any sense. But let's say you have 300,000 heads of cattle and all you have are the ways to represent 300 heads of cattle. There's a big difference. Right. There's an extra digit in there, and those two diagonal lines were used to represent one of those digits when there was not any digits there. But there's something to the left of it and something to the right of it. That's right. And Kaplan also said that before that even they just would leave a blank space sometimes before they even came up with little wedges. Right. So what this is all based on is basically our numerical system, where if you look at a string of numbers right? Yeah. Starting from the right, you have the one column, the tens column, the hundreds, the thousands, the ten thousands, the 100 thousands, and so on. You want me to keep going? Add infinitum, right? Yes. And in each of these columns there may or may not be numbers present. So when there are numbers present, we have our friend zero to serve as what's considered a placeholder. Yeah. I mean, it's very easy to just say, well, now, but way back then, before there was a zero, we take it very much for granted. This is huge. This changed everything. Changed everything all of a sudden now. Because, I mean, we said there's a big difference between 3000 head of cattle and 300 head of cattle. And by putting a zero there right. Saying this column is represented, there's just not any in here. You're not going to find the two cattle that should be in this. Right. That changed everything. They changed everything. It made there was frustrating before that, only there was something to put there. And I guess when they live like, just trust me, I have 3000 cab. Okay. And I guess when they left the blank space, that got confusing because they could have thought it was an error. So they figured we have to put something there so they know it's not just an oversight. Right, exactly. That's the diagonal line. Well, I think before it even became that standardized, they use different things because they found a tablet from 700 BC and a dude use three little hooks to represent zero. Well, that would have been after that because the Sumerians were doing this, like, 5000 years ago. Well, it's probably hard to get the word around three hooks. What is this? Crud? Exactly. So the Sumerians are the first documented to come up or stumble upon zero as a placeholder. Sure. And then it was codified with the invention of the Abacus, which uses our numerical column system that we use today, which is invented by the Babylonians, about 300, 500 BC. Wow. Right. Smart folks back then. So we have zero as a placeholder. We have this understanding now that there's something out there. Like we can represent nothingness. But it wasn't until the fifth century Ad in India where zero first comes about as a concept, as a number, which is equally groundbreaking. Yeah. On this, nothingness, we should point out, was not something that people were comfortable with back then. True. Oddly, now it seems odd, but to have something represent nothing made people very uncomfortable. It was associated with chaos in the great void and even the sign of the devil. Yes, it was. Well, I mean, if you look at the Christian theology, the void which is represented by zero or nothingness was the state of the universe before the creation of man. Humans sure seeks feel the same way, too. Although I don't know how they felt about zero. But that's their conception as well. There was nothing there's. Void and then also void fits well with chaos, which is the Christian conception of hell. Right. No one's in charge. Right. So, yeah, it was avoided. I don't know. I went back and looked chuck after I wrote this article. When we were studying today. I went back and looked and I didn't find a lot of support for that. I didn't either. I did see that during the Dark Ages, monks kind of were probably they feared zero. Well, Caplan mentioned it in his book. It was out there. But these people did this. They told this guy for saying the word zero. There was nothing like that out there. I think, more to the point, it was the Romans who just didn't use zero. And the west was built by Rome. And that's, I think, where the shunning of zero came from. Not necessarily from fear, but just because the Roman numeral system doesn't have zero. Yeah, I found where they flirted with it at first with nulla N-U-L-A which they would represent with a little N, but it clearly didn't take. No. They said, we're not going to use it as zero. No. Why would we ever need zero? We don't need it as zero. Right. Did they talk like that back then, too? Yeah, like Vinny from Brooklyn. Sure, I think so. Where are we? In India? Yes. We're in the fifth century Ad. In India. And a guy named Ariyabhata is possibly the person who invented zero. Really? Possibly. Or discovered as you like to say thank you. Yes, thank you for correcting me with my own words. That happens a lot, doesn't it, when they're your articles? So it is pretty much universally accepted that zero was created or discovered in India, and then it spread pretty quickly over to Islamic nations, Arab nations. And it was the Arabs who taught a guy named Fibonacci, Leonardo Pisa, who was a great mathematician of the west in the, I think the 12th century or the 13th century, you know, people are going to say, do the Fibonacci number. Go ahead. Well, no, people are going to ask for that podcast. Okay. In fact, they've already been asking for that podcast. Do you want to do that one? Yeah. You want to? Maybe. Probably not. Well, Fibonacci was the son of a customs officer in Algeria. Chuck yes. And he had Arabic tutors, and they said, hey, kid, we're going to teach you how to really do math. Because by this time, by, I think, the century, the Arabs were very well versed in mathematics, and the west was still just complete idiots. Fortunately, Fibonacci was over there getting tutored, and he figured out, wow, this is really important, and introduced our Arabic numeral system, which we use today, to the west through a book. So you said he wrote a book. Did he write the book? No, he wasn't the only one. Okay, now, that's not true for the west. Yes, he wrote the book, and then other people wrote treatises on his book. Okay. So he pretty much set the basis. Yes. Okay. He was the fulcrum, the hinge between west and Middle East. Zero is the fulcrum. Yes, it is. Interesting. So he was the one who introduced it to the west. But again, we say that because we're Western writers. Chuck but it was very well established for hundreds of years by the time Fibonacci heard about Zero. Yes. And you also point out, interestingly, that simultaneously and completely independently of India and Central America, the Maya were also beginning or already using zero mainly for their calendar. Right? Yeah. It was the base of counting, which makes sense. It totally makes sense. And it makes for a more accurate calendar. Right, sure. So for mine, calendars, like, the day of the month would be zero day, then one day, then two days, then three days, and so on. How do you say that, though? Did you say 1st, 2nd, 3rd. How would you say they had different names for the day, like Zul okay. Would be Zul or Mon or something like that. It was like rather than 1st, 2nd, 3rd. They didn't have numerals like that. 1st, 2nd, 3rd. That's Arabic. Right. So to the Maya, it was like, cool day. Isn't that ghostbusters? I think so. Okay. But that was what? Sumerian. Oh, yeah. Zool with Sumerians all coming together. So that does make for a lot more accurate counting. And that's one of the big flaws in our calendar, the Gregorian calendar, is that there is no zero year. Well, and we all got that pointed out to us quite to the media, especially when the millennium turned, because there's no year zero. Our decades in our centuries and our millennia actually occur at the end of that year and not the beginning. Like when the clock struck midnight at 2000, we all went, yes. No millennium, not so. And we still had a year left. That's right. Have we started counting from zero then? Yeah, in January 1, 2000. That would have been the start of the new millennium, but we started counting from one. So one to 2000 is 1999 years rather than 2000 years. And there was one guy in every bar trying to point out to as many people as he could. Do you realize it's not even true? And he's like, Why isn't anyone buying me drinks? So crazy. Why are they going to beat me up? Yeah, I put a little notation in there because I have trouble wrapping my head around that sometimes. But the point is, there's ten single digit numbers in the Arabic numerical system that we use. Yes. And it's zero through nine. Anything beyond that is it in the tens column or above. And thanks to zero, we have a ten column. Exactly. Hey, everyone, when you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office when you could be using Stamps.com? Yeah. For more than 20 years, Stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses, because Stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and Ups shipping services you need right from your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS. Rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com. Click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. Take it, Chuck. Well, Western astronomers, they came up with a system late 17th and early 18th century that designated calendar year, one BC is zero, and then basically anything above or below that would either be plus or minus. So BC or Ad. Right. So two Ad would be minus one, or no, two BC would be minus one BC. Yes. Since we're not living in Ad, they just kind of screwed with the BC a little bit. So right now we're in plus 2012. Yes. Which also makes it's not just calendars. I mean, zero lies between negative one and one and serves as a fulcrum point for basically all numbering, positive and negative. And that was Jacques Cassini who came up with that astronomical calendar. Those Italians were all up on this stuff, weren't they? Yeah, it's not going to be French, but yeah, it is an Italian. Well, Jacques, though. Yeah. Who knows? Maybe he's northern Italian. Exactly. But yeah, so he basically said, well, wait, why don't we just choose one year to be zero? And then we'll just basically make it. We'll make the calendar based on zero is rightful place of numbering, which is precisely between one and negative one. There's a zero there. It doesn't just go from negative one to 10 is, like you said, the fulcrum of all numbers spreads out infinitely on either side. So it's not positive and it's not negative. And so it's the only number that is non positive and non negative. But it's neither a positive number nor a negative number. Wrap your head around that one. Yeah. You college students sitting around here at midnight, just gaze ours and try and figure that out. Start counting. It's also an integer, a whole number, right. Yes. And it's very handy when it comes up to ratios in fractions, because a fraction can be written in a couple of ways, either with the one on top of the other or with a little decimal point. Yes. And without those zeros, you wouldn't be able to do that now. So the decimal system, basically, you can look at it as anything to the right of the decimal. Yes. So the tens, the hundreds, the thousandths. Right. The th 10th. Thank you. Yes. You're getting as bad as me, Chuck. Those are all encapsulated in that zero. That's up to positive one, right? Yeah. Because it's less than a whole one. But it's not so much that it's negative one. Right. It's encapsulated by that zero. So all of these ratios, all of the decimal system gives us these incredibly precise numbers, whereas we can count on whole numbers to the right of zero and positive whole numbers. That just goes on and on and on and measures the vastness of the universe to go the other way to go in this infinite decimal system that's encapsulated within zero lets you measure the infinitesimal. Right? Yeah. So it's not like, oh, it's between two and three. Right. I mean, try making high quality machine parts using whole numbers. Yeah, you can't. No, it can't be done. So there's all sorts of things that would have never taken place had zero not given rise to the decimal system, or everything would be really big. Everything would be like twice as large. Like the 10,000 year clock wouldn't even work. Remember they were using, like, fractions of an inch. That still wouldn't work. That's true. What else, Chuck? Well, you point out very astutely some odd properties of zero and they are actually called the properties of zero because it's such a weird number that you have to have properties to explain it. Exactly. So which is the first one called is the additive property of zero addition property. Yeah. Add zero to anything and you're going to get that same thing. That sounds very basic. Same with subtracting. Sure. Five plus zero is five. Five minus zero five. Right. And it is very basic. But zero is the only number that doesn't affect another number when it's added or subtracted to it, which is important. It is. Anytime a number is the only thing of its kind, it's worth mentioning, like pi, which, by the way, wouldn't exist without zero in the decimal system or any of those other wouldn't exist to us. Yeah, sure. There's the additive inverse property at zero, where any numbers that add up to zero are additive inverses of one another. So negative five plus positive five, or just five, as they call it, positive land, equals zero. So negative five and five are additive inverses of one another. Multiplying from the time I think I learned in the second grade, my multiplication tables, if I remember correctly. Ms. Anderson. Ms. Temple. Thank you very much. Good job. They taught me that if you multiply any number by zero, you're going to get zero. And as you point out, that multiplication is really just a quicker way of adding things. Like a shortcut. Yeah, it's a shortcut. So the idea that a number can be added zero times or that zero can be added to itself, that's when I get the most yeah, it just doesn't make any sense. Five times zero doesn't mean zero plus zero plus zero plus zero plus zero, that doesn't mean anything. Zero. Right. What about dividing by zero? Let me ask you no, let me ask you. This is the part where I was like, nobody understands this, okay? I don't feel very bad about this because no one really understands it. These other properties of zero that cover, like additive inverse, addition, subtraction, multiplication, there is no property that says why you can't divide by zero because it's so nonsensical. Right. It doesn't even exist. The concept of dividing by zero doesn't really actually exist except in the imagination of people. I bet mathematicians have tried, though, like frustratingly tried. You can't there's nothing you can do. And they don't even fully understand why. But the best explanation that I saw was that it has to do kind of with the multiplication property, right, to where if you divide something so like six divided by two equals three. So if you can divide a number, the result of that number by the divisor. So in this case, three and two multiplied by one another should equal the dividend, which is six. Right? Now, if you divide six by zero, it doesn't equal anything. It should equal zero if you multiply it, it's not going to equal two right. That's the best example I could come up with. Yeah, that makes sense, though it shouldn't. Well, you're completely insane. It makes sense that it doesn't make sense. Okay. That's what I'm saying. And Stephen, right, had a joke. He said that black holes are where God tried to divide by zero. Wow. You like it? That's good. I still did his one bit. Sometimes when people get in a car with me, I say, hey, put your seatbelt on. I want to try something. That was one of his jokes. He's like, Just try that whenever someone gets in a car. He's good. Yeah. And then also there's the property of zero exponent, which also doesn't make any sense. Chuck, there's negative exponents, like numbers to the negative power, ten to the negative five. Yes. Because of this, mathematically, it works out, but I don't understand it. Numbers to the zero power equal one. Does it make any sense? Because zero multiplied by something should equal zero, not one. Yeah. That's how it works out, though. Thank you. Magical, mysterious number. My hero. Zero. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office when you could be using Stamps.com? Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses. Because Stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and Ups shipping services you need right. From your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS. Rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com. Click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. And I ran across one other thing that I thought was pretty cool. The evidence of Islamic countries comfort with zero concept. Right. And Western countries discomfort with it can be found still today on elevators. In countries where the Ottoman Turks or any other Islamic nation conquered and ruled for a while, you're still going to find evidence of a comfort with zero. Like in Hungary, if you look in Spain, here, too, if you look on an elevator, the ground floor is zero, and any floor beneath that is a negative number. Really? Like the basement parking subject, like negative one, negative two. Isn't that cool? And apparently that's because of the presence of the Turks who were there for a while. Wow. Yeah. I mean, they didn't have elevators then. But apparently you don't see a floor zero in the west. No, you don't. We just don't like zero that much. Or a 413. Right. Although it is 13. We've had that talk before. I think we have what do we have here? P one. P two in our building. Yeah, that's boring. Definitely not negative. Let's say that from now on, like, what lovely parked on I'm on negative four. Yeah, I will say that. I will say that right now. I'm on negative three. I'm on negative two. I was here early. Go and check. And also, let's see, you can type zero. Do you have anything else? You're just happy to be done with this one? No, this was actually really good. I don't know about that. Zero is my hero. Three is the magic number. If you type in zero in the search bar, HowStuffWorks.com, it will bring up this article, including a cool little story that we didn't get to about a great parrot. True. And also, I highly encourage you, if this even piqued your interest at all, I highly encourage you to read Zero and Four Dimensions, which is an article you can find online from 2002 by a guy named Hussein Arsham. And he explains in much greater depth in detail, like zero and what's so cool about it, or if you want to really get into it, robert Kaplan wrote a whole book on it and I believe it comes with a length of rope and a buttress beam to hang yourself at the end. We should do one on three. All right. I pitched that article long time ago. Long time ago. On three. Yes, I remember. So those would be our two numbers. I'd have to write it down. I don't know if that'll ever happen. Get to it. I wrote this so we could do this. You're more of a man than me. I think at some point in the not too distant past check, I said search bar. Yes. So that means it's time for listening to Mail. Hold on, josh, I think you have a quick announcement first. I do. I psyched myself out. It's crazy. Chuck, we are going to be in Austin, Texas, on March 11 and 12th. That's Sunday and Monday. Four south by Southwest Interactive. Right. We are going to have our own panel. We're not even on a panel talking to some other schmoes about, like, Mashable or Twitter. Like, we are doing a live podcast like we did last year. Remember how UFOs worked on the really awkward, uncomfortable one where I started crying? We're going to do something like that. And we don't know what the topic is yet, but if you are a badge holder for south by Southwest, come see us. It's going to be on Sunday, March 11, at 330 hours long. We don't know where yet, but we will announce maybe on the internet, like Twitter or Facebook. Sure. And on the show we'll find out soon. Sure, yeah. And if you aren't a badge holder at south by Southwest, but you like to go and just kick around Austin, you'll be there on Monday. We're going to throw a party, and we can't reveal, really, the details of that yet, but just know that we'll be in town and we'll be doing cool stuff. Okay. I think there will be live music. I think there will be live comedy, and I think there will be some other special treats. Yes, like those like smarties. The roles of smarties. We may have the good. They beat the tar out of neko wafers, don't they? Oh, yeah. Okay, well, that's it for us, making fun of old timing candy, which means it's time for listener mail. Indeed. I'm going to call this Coffee including Coffee song from a listener. Okay. This is from Ashley. Great work on the coffee podcast, gents. I could have saved my last four years of work at a cafe just by listening to you all. Really, though, it was a splendid way to spend my days getting to know the locals in downtown Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, North America. Have we entered the song yet? Because he rhymed a second ago. No, that is not the song. Okay, that's coming. Great. She's just a rhymer by nature, I think. While I can't say I'm a total coffee snobber expert, I do have a thought on the old why is Starbucks a bitter debate? I think that part of the taste comes from the number of beans used in the blend. For instance, at the cafe I used to run, we served both Milano Coffee and then, umbria, I believe that each of these companies, plus the coffee I now drink called Intelligentia, contains a blend of beans, as many as 15 different kinds to create that smooth balance I really love in my Americanos her last name Starbucks. No, she's saying Starbucks doesn't use the blend. Okay, got you. It's more better. Her name is mom and Pop. Got her last name. As far as I understand, Starbucks may use as few as one to three types of beans and their espresso blend. Like I said, I think this may be a part of the story, but not likely the whole story. On another note, since leaving the cafe, I now work with a group of software nerds who used to visit my cafe on a regular basis. So now I, too, get to go for coffee every day. It's one of the perks of the job, pun intended. We even have a little coffee song, and she recorded this and send it to us. So we're going to play that right now. Coffee, coffee, coffee, coffee, all day long. When I need some coffee, I sing the coffee song. Well, that's the G rated version I learned. This is the other version I learned a little bit later on. It goes like this. Coffee, coffee, coffee, coffee, all day long. If. I don't get my coffee, I'll punch out in this. So how about that? Josh that was something else. Thank you, Ashley, for that. Yes, thanks a lot. She says, as you can tell, we're a bit mad about our coffee drinking. It's the new smoke break for us. Where is that person from? She didn't say. Oh, no, she did say. I'm sorry. Edmonton, alberta, California. That's right. Well, thank you very much for that. We appreciate you and your coworkers for making that song, for listening, for drinking coffee, for caring. That's great. Yeah. If you have a song, Chuck, we get them from time to time and I feel like we should be better about playing them. Yes, we want to hear it. You can, I guess, make it as like an MP3 MP4. MP3 is good. Right, Jerry? MP3. And you can send it to us. You can tweet to us and tell us it's on the way at syskpodcast. You can go onto Facebook and tell us it's on the way@facebook.com and you can actually send it to us at stuffpodcast@discovery.com. What discovery.com. Okay, that's stuffpodcast@discovery.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseupworks.com. To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of our home page. The house that Forks iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on itunes. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 camry. It's ready. Are you? Summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good it's Criminal Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, Morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Erkart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this charttopping series will have you hooked before you know it. Listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | ||
446478b2-53a3-11e8-bdec-332e8760f79a | The Bay of Pigs Disaster | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/the-bay-of-pigs-disaster | The Bay of Pigs is one of the blackest of eyes on American foreign policy. Learn all about this dark spot of American history today. | The Bay of Pigs is one of the blackest of eyes on American foreign policy. Learn all about this dark spot of American history today. | Tue, 10 Nov 2020 10:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2020, tm_mon=11, tm_mday=10, tm_hour=10, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=315, tm_isdst=0) | 46830730 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff. You should know a production of Iheartradios how stuff works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Brian over there, and Jerry's over there somewhere. And this is stuff you should know. This recording session is off to as auspicious to start as the Bay of Pigs invasion. Chuck, am I right? Yeah. Nice little tie in there. Thank you very much. It's what I'm paid to do. Yeah, I think so. Isn't that what they pay us for? To be witty and incisive? I think so. I think so, too. So, Chuck, I know, to my astonishment that you were not alive during the Bay of Pigs invasion. No. You came along a good decade after that, from what I understand. Ten full years. I didn't want anything to do with it now, and I can understand why, because it was about as big as stinker. As far as foreign policy and military intervention goes, certainly the US. Has made bigger blunders. A lot more people died through some of our misadventures abroad, but this one is perennially. The one that's pointed to is like, this is really a case study and how terribly wrong things can go, and how decisions were made basically every level and at every stage that made sure that the Bay of Pigs invasion, which was the United States supporting an invasion of Cuba by Cuban dissidents, it's about as bad as it can go. That was, like, the perfect example of that. Yeah. It almost makes you think that if there was a God who cared about American politics, that that God was saying, don't invade Cuba. Over and over again. Don't invade Cuba. And, like, I'm doing all I can. I'm pressing all the buttons here. Everything's going wrong. Warning. Warning. Don't do it right, or God really loves Fidel. Well, maybe so, because that was the whole point. The whole reason that America supported this covert action really went a lot further than support, like drummed up a covert action led by the CIA. The military was secretly involved. It was illegal internationally. But the whole reason was to get rid of Castro because on New Year's Day of, what, 1959, fidel Castro took control of Cuba from then existing President Fulgencio Batista and Bautista, I read up on this guy. He was a bad dude. He was a dictator. He was the president of Cuba twice. The first time he was corrupt, but the country still prospered under him and he still looked out for people. The second time, after an eight year period abroad, when he came back, he was just bad news. But as far as America was concerned, they were like, well, he lets American companies own most of the stuff in Cuba, so we're okay with them. When Fidel came along, he said, Nuts to that. We're getting the American involvement out of Cuba, and Cuba is going to take care of Cuba from now on. And America said, I'm not sure how we feel about that. Yeah, and we had our chance to be buddies with Castro at the beginning. Like, he came to the United States and toured America, and we gave him the highsman. We gave him the Heisman trophy. It's an expression. I've never heard that before. What do you mean? Farm? Have you ever seen the hydrogen got you? Yeah, sure. No, I thought you were still describing his grand tour and how great it was. I got you. And that we gave him an honorary Heisman Trophy award. That's where my mind weirdly. That's what they pay me for now. It's an expression. I got you. Yeah. It might predate you to feel like it was an expression, like in the 90s. No, I totally get what you meant. It was the context that through me. Okay, well, we gave him a Heisman and he wanted a buddy, and that's when Khrushchev came along, and he was like, well, if Americans aren't going to be my buddy, I'll be a friend with you. And that's kind of how I got started. We had our shot. Yeah. Supposedly, though, the Bay of Pigs invasion itself was one of the things that really drove Castro into the arms of Crews chef. So the whole idea was to get rid of Castro because we were afraid he was going to go toward Kruschev and give the Communists a foothold in the Western Hemisphere, basically in our backyard. And by carrying out this Bay of Pigs invasion, we made sure that that happened. It's one of the great ironies of this whole thing. Yeah. Because Castro wasn't looking to be a puppet of the Soviets right now. That was not on his docket, and the Soviets really needed him, I think, at the time. I think they had less than five ICBMs. I don't think they had anything that could even get to the United States at that point. And ICBM is the worst kind of BM, actually. I think the fiery hot BMW. Yeah, you're right about that. Although, has anyone had an ICBM? Because you'd probably be in big trouble. Maybe, but Russia needed the Soviet Union needed Cuba way more than Cuba needed them at the Onsite. I did not know that. Wow, that's really interesting. I had no idea about that because I know that America was terrified of Communism and the Soviet Union in particular, but also they didn't consider China to be slouched, really, as far as the spread of Communism goes. But the Soviet Union seemed really interested in spreading Sovietstyle communism throughout the world. And at the time. Colonialism was really kind of I guess the European colonial powers were losing their grip on places in Southeast Asia and Africa. And so there were all these countries. Including ones in Latin America. That were kind of I don't want to say up for grabs. Because I don't mean to undermine the agency of the people who lived and ran these countries. But these were becoming the two superpowers in the world. So you could fall under their influence, at the very least, economically, if not politically. And so the US. Was really worried about the spread of communism. And one of the things that Dwight Eisenhower, Ike, who was president in the late 50s, warned about was the domino effect, where once you had one country turned Communist, it would spread to another neighboring country, and then another and another. Now all of a sudden, half of Africa is Communist, so we need to be worried about this kind of thing. So America is really starting to enter, like, the fear of that Cold War panic in about the late 50s, early 60s. Yeah, and here's the thing, too. When I say that Russia didn't have capabilities to strike from where they were, I'm not sure if we knew that. I'm sure there are historians that know that answer, but I'm not sure if America knew that. I think that you couldn't take any chances. Basically, you had to get Cuba off the map for the Soviet Union and not, like, sync the island, but you know what I mean? No. And at the very least, you could leave the island intact. Leave the island. There's a lot of valuable industries, and, like, the mob was running casinos down there right before Castro. Get rid of Castro seemed to be the whole thing. Castro and Shea Gavara. Right. So this occurred to the Eisenhower administration, CIA, who hatched a plan that had the ominously CIA title of a program of Covert Action against the Castro regime. And they presented this thing, I believe, in the 61, the very beginning of 1961, and they went to Eisenhower and they said, look, this guy really we all know that he has to go, but here's what we think is the best way to do this. We need to get rid of Castro, but we need to do it in such a way that it appears that the Cuban people are dissatisfied with his rule, and they've turned against him. We need to keep our hands off of it for one reason, because that just kind of seems like a lot more legitimate of a revolution, doesn't it? Like, the Cubans rose up against Castro, so they really didn't want Castro around, so nobody should swoop in to help Castro. But then secondly, the US. Is not allowed to dabble in other countries affairs. It's illegal internationally to invade a sovereign country, unprovoked or without reason. And so it wouldn't have been a good look for the US. To be caught doing this. So they figured the best way to do it would be to train a bunch of Cuban dissidents and have them just do it. Yeah, and not only that, they wanted to create a new government. They wanted to disperse propaganda, anti Castro propaganda. I mean, it was basically, we want to topple a regime, and install a new government of our choosing. And this is completely illegal. And Eisenhower said, sure, go ahead. This sounds good to me. Because what we can't risk is them buddying up too much with Khrushchev and have nuclear weapons all of a sudden parked right off our coast. That's right. So they went to Miami, which where else would you go to recruit Cuban defectors? Perfect place. Sure. Because they were defecting and there were a lot of unhappy Cubans that didn't like Castro that left. And they were there just sort of waiting to be called upon and very willing to be called upon by the CIA, as it turns out. Yeah. And apparently when they started, like, Amassing, this group of recruits, they first started training them in the Everglades in Florida and they learned things like cryptography and demolitions and guerrilla warfare and all that stuff. But it was, I guess, an open secret, or maybe common knowledge is a better way to put it among Cuban dissidents in Florida that the CIA was training a group down there. But the CIA blessed their hearts. They tried to at least make it seem like they weren't from the CIA, which is a very CIA type thing to do. So the CIA agents said that they were from a very powerful company that was bent on removing Communism from the world. Kind of true. Yes. Sure. But then one of the Cuban dissidents with CIA agent says, what? And the CIA agent said what? And the cat was out of the bag. Yes. They had to train these guys up. There were a bunch of students. Obviously, if you think about dissidents, leaving Cuba can have a lot of student involvement. But there are also just professionals. There were doctors and lawyers and farmers. There were people that had no money. There were people that had quite a bit of money for Cuba. And they all didn't like Castro, though. But almost none of them had any kind of prior training. And why this hasn't been made into a movie yet is just flabbergasting to me because this has all the elements of a great movie. Yeah. Especially if you do it from the view of the dissidents who are trained into a paramilitary group. I think that would have to be your protagonist. Yeah, right. Because it's been touched on before, like it was in The Good Shepherd, that Matt Damon movie about the origin of the CIA. I believe it's been referenced, at least. But, yeah, you're right. There's no blockbuster movie where, like, The Rock and the Diesel play Cuban guys who are like they also form a bromance, too. That really kind of is a subplot to the whole thing. Yeah, that's how they ruin it, isn't it? With the bromances? Just that by casting the rock and vinyl. Yeah. Everything you just said sounded awful and exactly how it would probably happen. I think Vin Diesel actually released a record recently which I say props to him, man. He's multifaceted. He's a double threat. Is the name of his one man band Diesel Fuel? I don't know. Because if not, it should be. It's not a bad one. You want to take a break? Yeah, I think so. It's a great time for a break. Thanks, man. I thought you'd say that. So we're going to take a break, everybody, in case you hadn't heard. And we'll be right back. Dave Ruse helped us out with this one, Chuck, and he said we need to be sure to give a shout out to Jim Razenberger, who's an author of the book The Brilliant Disaster JFK. Castro in America's Doomed Invasion of Cuba's, bay of Pigs, which is I've seen his work referred to multiple places, so he wrote a pretty good book about it, and I guess Dave Rus learned a lot from him. So thanks a lot, Mr. Razenberger. But where we left off was there was a group of Cuban dissidents. I think they reached the ranks of like 1400 before they stopped recruiting that were being trained in the Everglades. But they said, hey, we found this way better camp in Guatemala. Let's move everybody there to the rainforest. Because it's a little more like Cuba's climate. And we kind of own Guatemala, right? Well, Guatemala was, at the very least, very much friendly to American interest by this time because we'd already overthrown, I think, the government, if I'm not mistaken, we had just done that and installed like a pro American regime. So, yeah, this would have been a perfect place to have a secret CIA training camp for Cubans to train to invade Cuba. That's right. Thanks to bananas. That's right. Reference to our past episode on PR. That was such a good one. I think that's my all time favorite live app. All time favorite, huh? I don't know. I'd have to look at the list and really give it thought. That one's up there. I also love the Kellogg brothers. Those are probably my top two. Yeah, that was a good one, too. For sure. Why do we have to pick? Let's just say yeah. So weird and foreign. Remember when we would go in the room with 1500 other people and all hug each other? It just broke out in like a cold sweat at the idea of that. It's funny when you watch TV shows and they were filmed prior to the pandemic, you're like, you're standing too close together. Someone put on a mask. You're making me nervous. Do you have anxiety dreams, too, about proximity? No. I have anxiety dreams about politics. See, I have a lot of anxiety dreams lately. I mean, not lately, for the past nine months, every like once a week or so about somebody being all up in my grill. I'm like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Get away from me. Stand back, sir. Which is ironic because I love being close to people physically. I know. I think that's probably why you have anxiety is because there's a tension there. Like, if you were naturally, like, Stay over there. Sure. I got to tell you, that part of the pandemic has been kind of easy for me. Some stand off to begin with. Oh, goodness. So, Chuck, one of the things that I thought was kind of cool about this group of people, this group of Cuban dissidents who were trained into a paramilitary group, the CIA had the foresight to give them serial numbers starting at number 2500. That's pretty funny. So that if any one of them were caught, they could say, well, my serial number is 25 50. And they'd be like, oh, my God, there's 2500 people ahead of them. Who knows how many after them? And in fact, again, it was just 1400. In fact, I think their patch said 2500. And that had a little arrow pointing to it. And then right beside that it said, you see? Yeah. Get it? It was a very elaborate patch. It was very colorful, too. And as a matter of fact, it stood out a little too much. And then underneath it said, and there's more to come. Get it. Right. What was under that? Under that was it's totally not a made up number. And then below that, there was an arrow that went all the way to the top. It says start over again. Oh, man. So they were actually called Brigade 25 Six, and they named themselves after the serial number of one of their fallen comrades who died in training camp in Guatemala. He slipped on a slippery trail during an exercise and fell into a ravine. And what was his name? His name was Carlos Rafael Santana. Carlos Santana slipped on a banana peel. Oh, that Raphael really threw me off. But yeah. Did it not occur to you if it was a banana peel? No, it didn't. Yeah, but they said, this is very sad, so we're going to name our brigade after him. And they did. So that's what they've always been known by, from that moment on, this invasion force of Cuban dissidents, as they were known as Brigade 25 Six. And one of the really amazing things about Brigade 25 Six is, despite being, like you said, a group of doctors and lawyers and farmers and fishermen and students, and coming from all walks of life and socioeconomic status, they actually were trained into a pretty decent paramilitary group. They fought bravely, they fought really well, they held their own, as we'll see, and they were doomed from the start, not really by any of their own fault. Which must have been incredibly frustrating for them. Yeah, I imagine so. Like I said, they weren't too hard to recruit. Like, they were eager to do this job and they really wanted to get Castro out of there. And you might think when a new president comes in, that things might change. They might kind of revisit this plan, think maybe this is not the best idea. I'm pretty excited because I get to do my Kennedy, so I'm glad I was out of there. I have no idea what he sounded like. He sounded like this are you selfspoken? What's your problem? But Kennedy one and 60 in no small part due to the fact that he touted being very tough on communism and on Cuba. And so they said, let's get them in here. Yeah, he came off as more hawkish about communism in Cuba than Nixon did, which is funny. He ran against Nixon and Nixon said that he basically lost because Kennedy seemed like he would do more about Cuba. And that's kind of one of history's great ironies because Kennedy accused Nixon and Ike of being too soft on Cuba, of letting this Castro fella take power and letting him amass power and not doing anything about it. And Nixon had to sit there and take it because he had been sworn to secrecy about this plot to train Cuban dissidents and invade Cuba. And he couldn't be like, actually that's not true. He's got this really great plan, let me tell you, viewing audience all about it. So he had to defend this position of being soft on Cuba even though he knew they weren't. Well, Kennedy got to just run circles around him because Kennedy was an unproven guy who seemed more hawkish on Cuba. And some people point to that as how Kennedy wants it. So when he came in yeah, I had no idea about that. When he came in, he really wanted to prove himself in that respect. And the CIA said, are you sitting down because we'd like to drop this opportunity into your lap. And they let him in on this plan to invade Cuba with Brigade 25 six. And Kennedy said are great. Yeah. They said, here's our plan, Mr. New President. And he said, you can stop calling me that. Mr. President will suffice. And they said, we're going to take 750 of these men and we are going to do a D Day style invasion at dawn on the beach head in the Bay of Pigs named So because well, that's the name of it. It's bahia de concinos in Spanish. That's on the southern side of Cuba. And he said It sounds delicious. It does. And they said, we're going to land on that beachhead. We're just going to root down there and not take Havana or anything because here's what's going to happen, Mr. President. They're going to get news of this in Cuba and all these anticastro Cubans there are going to know that this is their moment. And they've got some army dudes that are involved, they got some military personnel that are anti Castro and they are going to say, all right, now is our time. We're going to rise up to overthrow Castro. And then that's when our 750 men who are by the way, totally disguised as Cuban dissidents. Like we're going to paint planes like American planes, like they're from Cuba and stuff like that. No one's ever going to know. It's the perfect plan. Yeah, we've printed up T shirts for him that say down with Castro, down with Castro. And he said that's when they're going to join the fight and join this general revolt and it might take a couple of weeks, easy peasy. And Kennedy said, all right, so there was a key to success in there that the whole thing hinged on and from what I can tell, kind of unwarrantedly. But that was the idea that when these dissidents attacked Cuba and the word got out that Cuba was being attacked, that the Cuban people would be like, the heck with Castro, get him, and would it ignite this revolt? And from what I saw, this is based on a hunch. It wasn't based on intel or anything. It was based on a hunch or even a hope you could possibly say, which that alone is a sign that you may be working on a really bad plan. Because anything short of sparking a revolution internally in Cuba means that this is going to fail. Like Cuba is small, but Castro had a really extensive army, tens and tens and tens of thousands of professional soldiers. Plus another, I think, 100,000 militia members, like what we would probably call like the National Guard or Reservists here. So even if there were 5000 people or 2500, however many, they made it seem like they were probably going to be overwhelmed if Cuba didn't rise up. And they had no reason to believe that Cuba would rise up. They were just hoping. So that's strike one. Yeah, it's a big time intelligence failure. Another key to this, and you're going to just put a pin in this one listener, is air strikes. They were like, listen here, we got these dudes on the beach, they're going to be rooted down and they are going to be bombed to heckken back by Castro's air force, which is small, but he still got these planes. And he said, so we got to take out that air force or else their toast like they're sitting ducks out there. We got to take out the air force. We've got to take out the air force. It wasn't like out of the question. Like Castro had a big army of ground troops, but his air force was fairly paltry, pretty small, and it was entirely within the realm of possibility to strike all of his planes. And if they did do that, that would give this amphibious landing force a real fighting chance to make their way inland. And if this revolution sparked, then there you have it. So that was definitely doable. The problem is Kennedy, when he came in, he was really ambitious about getting rid of communism and making a name for himself is tough on communism and delivering on what he'd campaigned on. But at the same time he was also really aware of international image, political image of the United States. And so he said, I'm really worried that this is going to be like Chuck said he knew who you were, Chuck, that there's going to be two big bang boom. Like there's going to be a lot of blowing things up and it's going to be obvious that the United States is involved in this and we just can't have that. So let's go smaller for one. And also this place where we're going to land, it's a little too close to Trinidad, which is a pretty populous town in Cuba that seems a little hostile and aggressive. Let's move it to the middle of nowhere, this place called the Bay of Pigs, and start there. And that was a really big issue for the plan because one of the reasons they chose that landing site near the city of Trinidad in Cuba is because it was near the mountains. And so if the guerrillas amphibious landing failed and it was broken up, they could flee to the mountains and then regroup and start launching a guerrilla war from the mountains instead. This place at the Bay of Pigs was nowhere near anywhere. It was near swampland. And I think there was 60 miles of swamp between the Bay of Pigs and the mountains. So there was no melting into the mountains to escape. It was all or nothing when they moved that landing site. And that was another big thing that Kennedy did along with saying make it smaller, make it seem more like Cuban dissidents are the ones who are really behind this. Yeah. And the third thing he did was said, I don't like this dawn invasion thing. He's like, this has got to happen under the cover of night. We got to be out of there by dawn. We can't have any inkling that we're involved in any way. And I know that paint job on these planes is pretty good, but it looks a lot better at night, guys. So let's go in there at night. And this is like a month out and the CIA was like, dude, we had a plan here and you're telling us to make it smaller, put it in a different place to change our time of invasion. And this is a big deal. This is not how things work. You can't just change everything a month out and expect it to go down the way you want it to. And this is everybody's chance to back out entirely. Like this was the moment where somebody could have and should have stood up and said, you know what? This has got disaster written all over it now. We can't do this. We just need to back out and not go through with it at all. And nobody did it. No. And this has all the hallmarks of any corporate project where you've been working on something in this plan and developing, like, whatever it is you're developing, and then somebody comes along and says, change this and this, and completely alters it. But then you try to go ahead with the idea anyway, and it doesn't fit. It doesn't work enough. Fundamental things have changed that it just isn't like the original any longer. And usually, just speaking from experience, when that happens, you just scrap it and start all over. You don't do the project. Yeah. New Coke is a great example. Actually, New Coke is a terrible example. Let's go with Slice. Apple Slice. Sure. So apple slice started out as something called aspen. It was an apple flavored cola, and people loved it, but then they took it away. And when Slice came out as a new citrusbased soft drink, I think Pepsi owned it. They threw apple slice in, but it was really Aspen. But they just threw it in and rebranded as Apple Slice. It didn't work because it was something else. And they had just tried to clump it on to the existing framework without adjusting it or altering it. And Apple Slice went the way of the dinosaur when Aspen had been so beloved. So the Bay of Pigs invasion is on. Kennedy felt like he had to do something because the Soviets were buddying up to Castro, and he could not take the risk of them installing nuclear weapons right there, 90 miles off the coast. So they press forward. A few days before the invasion, the 25 six were moved from Guatemala to where they were going to launch from, which was a CIA camp in Nicaragua called Happy Valley. Very ironically, and just a few days before the invasion, the New York Times published a story about the operation, basically outed the whole thing. And Kennedy had to say something, so he said a bunch of words that were lies. He said, First, I want to say they will not be, under any circumstances or conditions, an intervention in Cuba by the United States armed forces. This government will do everything it possibly can. I think it can meet its responsibilities to make sure there are no Americans involved in any actions inside Cuba days before they were about to do that very thing. Yeah, and not just days before the actual invasion, but one day before that planned aerial strike that was to take out all of Castro's planes, which was, again, as far as the CIA analysts were concerned, essential to the success of the plan. Well, that New York Times article made Kennedy pretty cagey and worried. It took a lot of the confidence that he might have had, as small as it was to begin with, in the plan. And so he said, just for no really good reason, just kind of reacting, from what I can tell, he said, we were going to have 16 bombers. Let's just cut it to, like, eight instead. And. So those 16 bombers went out, and the whole key was, I think you said before that they were going to paint these bombers to make them look like stolen Cuban planes. And the premise was that some Cuban Air Force pilots were revolting against Castro, and they had carried out this strike. So they actually did have Brigade 25, six members fly these planes, but they were American planes painted to look like Cuban planes. They carried out the strike. They only got about, I think, half of Castro's planes, unfortunately. And then as part of the ruse, they flew to Miami, landed, and said, we're defecting to Cuba or from Cuba. Wink, wink. And so the press was brought out for a press conference, and apparently the press immediately was like, that sure looks like a pretty fresh coat of paint. And somebody else said, yeah, aren't Cuban machine guns mounted to the wings? These are mounted in the nose like American planes. And Kendi was like, Everybody, get out of here. Get out of here. No one's calling you anymore for any press conferences. And so it was very clear that the US. Was actually doing what the New York Times article was saying and that it was basically happening now. So Castro definitely had a pretty decent heads up of what was coming. Yeah, I mean, Castro, that was all the proof he needed. And he was like, hey. UN. The US of A broke their charter because they attacked us. And what say you? And the US representative to the UN, Adelaide Stevenson, said, I don't know anything about this, because he didn't he was in the dark about this whole thing, and he was really upset about this, obviously, because the CIA was doing this all very privately. And then Kennedy made one more big decision, is they said, Listen, you sent half the planes that we wanted, so we only destroyed half their air force. That's how that works, sir. They said, So we need to send in another air strike because they still have half their air force and that they're still sitting ducks. It'll just take them twice as long to make them dead. And he said, you know what? We can't do it. We cannot go in with a second air strike. That is not at all what Kennedy sounded like, Chuck. He said, I don't think we should go in with a second air strike. This is getting slightly heated, and we're all very frightened and haunted. Yeah, that's what they pay you for, Chuck. That's in my contract. There's, like, a myth that the CIA planned this whole thing, and the reason it was so botched and terrible was because some CIA analysts had basically done the whole thing in some secret bunker without any kind of input, in, like, this very isolated project. And that's not at all how it worked. There was basically a lot of people really throwing in a lot of opinions and thoughts to planning it. It was signed off by Ice and how it was signed off by Kennedy. The CIA was definitely not blameless in the first place. They were blamable for interfering in another country's affairs like that. But as far as this operation goes, there were some blunders on the CIA side. And one of the big ones, big ones is that some you two spy planes that they flew over Cuba to take pictures of the Bay of Pigs, this new landing site. When the analysts were looking at the photos, they said all this dark colored stuff, like in the shallows off of the coast, about 100 yards off the coast, or 100 meters, that's just a seaweed bed, so we don't need to worry about that. Well, when they finally staged this invasion, Chuck, they found that that was not the case at all, that the seaweed was actually coral, and these transport ships ran aground on coral because the CIA botched that so badly. And I feel like we might have gotten a little ahead of ourselves because I've put the people in the Bay of Pigs now, and we should back up a little bit, we should take a break, and then we should launch the invasion day of. What do you think? Sounds good to us. All right, so, Chuck, it's the day of the invasion. They launch brigade 25. Six. And remember the whole thing. The whole point of this is that the US is not supposed to be clearly involved, so they have to do this at night, like Kennedy requested to get the American ships out of there. So you've got American supply ships holding supplies for this amphibious force of Cubans Brigade 25 Six, and they're starting to run agground on the coral reef. And that was just the first of many problems that they ran into that day. Yeah. I mean, coral is not the kind of thing 100 yards out from the beach head that you can deal with very easily. It's not like they were like, all right, we'll just walk on this razor sharp coral and get everything in there. Everything's getting wet, all this radio equipment and these weapons are getting water logged and drowned out. A lot of it was inoperable by the time they finally got to the beach. So the whole thing had gone sideways at this point. Yeah. Literally before dawn, the whole thing had gone sideways. That's right. And by the time dawn breaks, Castro knows what's going on. He knows that the Bay of Pigs has had a beach head landing well, not quite a coral landing, and that they were still unloading stuff and struggling to get their stuff onto the beach when the Air Force gets there. Castro's Air Force, and they've opened fire on a supply ship named Houston and killed about twelve men. And everyone else got back in the water. I love hear that dave says shark infested water, so it's always shark infested, right? It's never, like, sparsely populated with water. There's a few sharks here and there. It's always infested. They're everywhere, full of sharks, water. So more of these planes start coming in, and the Rio Escondido, which was the biggest supply ship they had, had tons of explosives, tons of airplane fuel. It was just a big bomb waiting to go off. And that's exactly what happened. Took a direct hit from a bomb and just exploded. Like, this is the big scene in the movie, I guess, where the rock is on the beach saying, like, can you believe that, bro? Right. I see him saying Wolverines. Yeah, but with a Cuban accent. Wolverines. Although he said, they say what it is. Remember there's Cubans in Red Dawn. Oh, that's true. It was Cuban, wasn't it? Yeah. And they said what? Wolverine? Was in Spanish, but I can't remember. But I guarantee a few of our listeners will let us know. Chuck well, the CIA at this point realizes what's going on and says, all right, the supply chips need to get out of there and get into international waters stat. And they didn't pull the troops, but it's basically a retreat at this point. Yeah. And so the Cubans realized this, and at least one of them, Pepe San Roman, said he got on the radio to a CIA handler. He said, do not desert us. And CIA said we're not. We just forgot something back in the United States. We got to go get it. We'll be right back. And they just kept backing off in the international waters, and they definitely deserted these Cuban dissidents who had been landed on the beach. The Cubans are trapped there, and they fought like their whole thing was to just hold the beach and then wait for this revolution to spark by their presence. And they actually did. They held that beach for, like, two days, despite the fact that Castro sent everything he had at these guys, but they still managed to hold the beach for a while. And during this time, while they were holding it, the military brass and the CIA went to Kennedy, and they said, look, these guys are getting slaughtered. We need to provide some bombing cover. So we've got these bombers. Remember how you cut the number of bombers in that first air strike by half? Well, we've got some other ones. Let's get them out there. And we'll just have to also provide some air cover from some fighter jets. So they did. Kennedy finally relented and said, okay, but just as with everything that's possibly gone wrong with this and so far, it's going to continue with this bombing rate, because the bombers took off from Nicaragua, from the base in Nicaragua, and the air cover that was supposed to meet up with them was not ready because they apparently miscalculated. They didn't take into account the time zone difference between Nicaragua and Cuba. No one is exactly sure what happened, but they showed up an hour early and just cruised on by over to Cuba and started getting shot down. Yeah. Everything I saw said timezone. Okay. I saw that, too. But the thing is, it doesn't make sense. If they were an hour behind, then wouldn't they have been an hour late rather than an hour early? That's what I saw. Well, I just saw time zone error, so it could have been a big time error. But whatever it was, they showed up basically an hour early and they got shot down. But the problem that I saw with that in particular, Chuck, was these were not Brigade 25 Six pilots. They were Alabama Air National Guard pilots, straight up Americans who were flying a bombing mission over Cuba now, at this point in this botched Bay of Pigs invasion. And they got shot down, were killed and captured. Their bodies were captured by Castro, who basically paraded them around Cuba for the international press, saying, this is an American look, the Americans are bombing. And America denied ordering or having these Americans bomb Cuba until the 90s. It was a real disgrace for America's government for decades. Yeah. Castro recovered the body of Captain Thomas Willard Ray, and the only reason it came out was because it was declassified in the 90s. His body, by the way, was returned to his family by Cuba in 1979. And then when it was declassified in the 90s, ray was awarded the CIA's highest honor of the Intelligence Star, which is just almost even more shameful to kind of just slap an award on this guy that you denied, even sending him to his death for however many decades. So it was one of the more shameful moments in US. Political and military history. Yeah, because they went for a decade saying, no, this guy just went rogue. He went rogue. And his family was like, he did not do that. Stop lying. And they finally did after years. But, yeah, it was a big black eye on America, for sure. But even before that, the whole Bay of Pigs fiasco was a black eye on America and the Kennedy administration. Because by the time the battle was over at the Bay of Pigs, I think 114 people had died among the brigade members and Americans. But the rest, more than 1000, were captured and kept alive. And eventually, I think they were kept for a few years, but they weren't executed. Everybody just expected Castro to execute them all publicly, and he didn't. Instead, he decided to keep them as, basically, political pawns, didn't he? Yeah, they kept them for 20 months, 1113 men, and eventually they start negotiating for a trade through an American attorney, James B. Donovan. And initially, Castro said, I'll tell you what. I'll give them in back for 500 tractors. And I guess somebody on the Cuban side said, that's not enough, man. They're really rich. And he said, all right, how about $28 million. And then someone said, that's still not enough. We can take them for a lot more. They eventually settled on $53 million in food and medical aid, which was raised by private and corporate donations, and they made that swap. And I think Sheikovara, who was Castro's sort of right hand man at the time, thanked the United States very publicly and said, you know what? Because of this trade, because of all this money and aid and food, you have equal the playing ground here. And now we are America's equal. We are not in a grievous little country any longer. And that was a big, big deal. There was an influx of cash and food and medicine that Cuba really needed at the time. So it was like insults on top of injury after this, basically, yeah. And not only that, the attack, the fact that Castro fended off the tack, and then the fact that Castro negotiated another $53 million in aid from the attack helped Castro really solidify his power there. So he might have been shaky at some point before the Bay of Pigs. He was not afterward. He was a beloved leader who showed that he could and would defend Cuba. It also drove him toward Kruschev. If he had been on the fence about it before, he went full throated buddy with the Soviets afterward, and then also on our side, just a huge, again, black eye gave America internationally on the world stage, but also the Kennedy administration just looked like fools and also weasels. It drove JFK and his brother Bobby Kennedy to find another way to show that they were tough on communism. And a lot of people point to us going into Vietnam, looking at Vietnam as the next place to stand up to communism that came directly from the failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion. That's right. Lesson not learned. No, not at all. So that's it for the Bay of Pigs. There's a lot more to it. One of the more chronicled episodes in American history. So if you like this, well, go read more about it. And since I said read more about it, I think Chuck is time for listener mail. I'm going to call this you, me, and LSD. Hey, guys. I'd like to thank you both for bringing such great entertainment to my ears. I've been listening only for a few months, but I'm able to listen to several episodes a day while I work. So over the last couple of weeks, guys have been sort of messing around with micro dosing, LSD, and magic mushrooms. And it has been years since my last full blown LSD trip. Well, last weekend, I decided I wanted to take a full amount of LSD, see where it took me. Oftentimes, there's an overwhelming feeling in the body just before the psychoactive part takes place for me, which sort of allows me to gauge how the trip is going to go well, this particular time, the feeling in my body told me that I was going to have a bad time and lose my ability to govern where my thoughts meander. So I put on an episode of Stuff You Should Know and listen to you both talk about Schoolhouse Rock, which included the interview with Bob Nastanovich from Pavement, which was wonderful. Listening to you both talk really helped guide me through the initial peak of my LSD trip, which set the tone for the rest of my day. And it turned out great. You were both so level headed and kind and spirit, and I just want to say thank you all caps for being who you are. You're truly both role models for me, and the more I listen to you, the better human I become. So, once again, thanks. And that is from Mike Arthanian. That's really amazing, Mike. Thanks for that. I feel like Chuck, when we were recording that, we kept saying to one another during the ad break like, wow, people are going to love tripping on this one. I think so. And I even asked Mike, I said I could not read your name. And he went, no, man, read it. Read it and weep. That's right. Well, thanks again, Mike. That's pretty great. Glad that you came back down. And if you want to be like Mike and send us an email, you can send it off to Stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is production of iHeartRadio's how stuff works. For more podcasts my HeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio Apple podcast casts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows." | |
8da16cf8-ba8a-11e8-a624-3fb409d558f8 | Short Stuff: Papasan Chairs | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/short-stuff-papasan-chairs | Oh, the papasan. What a chair! But where did it come from? And what does the name mean? The answers lie within. | Oh, the papasan. What a chair! But where did it come from? And what does the name mean? The answers lie within. | Wed, 11 Sep 2019 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2019, tm_mon=9, tm_mday=11, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=2, tm_yday=254, tm_isdst=0) | 12646651 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, friends. You know, dating is a journey with ups and downs, for sure, but all the effort is worth it when you meet someone special, right? And when you decide it's time to find a meaningful relationship, eharmony is here for you. Eharmony. Is passionate about creating real love for all, rooted it in compatibility. Eharmony's process reveals truths about yourself, like, I don't know what you want in a relationship. And it helps you connect with a uniquely compatible partner who is right for you. Don't believe it? See for yourself. So start for free today, because every 14 minutes, someone finds love on Eharmony. Hey, there and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. There's Jerry. Man, I wish I hadn't said eating up time, Chuck. This is short stuff. Oh, God. I already said that, too. This is already off the rails. Let's just start over, like five years from now. Are you going to be doing this short stuff? Yes. Okay. It's the short stuff thing. All right. I just want to know what I'm in for. Yes. Buckle up, Chuck. So I heard you talking to Jerry as I sauntered in saying that you've never had a papa's on or a futon. No, neither one. Same here. Good for us, Chuck. That's really like sticking it to the man, you know? Yeah. We're antipopa food. We're saying tech with you society in popular culture. We're going to go our own way and use a normal mattress and box spring combination. Yeah, or a regular chair that doesn't think it's a cereal bowl for sex. Is that what they're for? I don't know. But we should shout out the great website at Lisburga. Sure. We both love that website and have for years. And when you're doing Popsicle research, look to one person, and that's John Kelly. That was obscured because he really dug into it. Dude, he is the only person who did, too. If you find any other article on the web, including this, how stuff works when it's like, here's what John Kelly found. Like, this guy did all of the legwork and the research and he really did dig in. But the beautiful part of the whole thing is that he failed to fully solve the mystery. It's still a mystery, which probably will be forever. Yeah. So there are a lot of mysteries about the papa's on. You can start by going to Papasan.com, which will redirect to Pier One Imports, which is pretty great. That is a little fishy and cool. But there are a lot of like you can't get anything clear as to the origin of the name or even where the chair originally came from or when people started selling it. Yeah, it's weird, but there are so John Kelly did turn up some tantalizing clues. He wasn't able to triangulate on a particular year and even necessarily a particular country. But there's a lot of strong evidence that they emerged in the 60s probably in the Philippines. That's where I'm putting my money. That's where the popazon share came from. 60s Philippines. Yeah. And that would make sense, because by 1966 was when we finally got the name peer One as a store, which had been, I guess it was previously cost plus. Yeah, which I guess split off, and the cost plus went on and become world Market, which everybody knows. Well, cost plus world market is still on the side, which I think is interesting. Yeah. But weirdly, peer One was cost plus originally, and I think it was after they divided. And then if you really want to get the mind boggling, it was the guys who started Radio Shack who originally funded the guy who founded tier one. Yes. And the people who were Radio Check were originally the Tandy corporation, which I remember that name, I think. Oh, I had a tandy robot arm that moved left and right. You still do. It's attached to your body. That's right. Stellar, but stellar. God, I love just hearing that name. But 1966, tier One, what they're doing is they found a good market in importing Asian goods very cheaply and then marking them up for profit. But here's the deal. Even marked up in the United States, it was still, like, cheaper than other stuff that you would get here from America or Europe. So people bought the stuff. Yeah. So peer one is basically like the place everybody says, no, this is where America became enamored with paws on chairs. So people go to tier one and say, where do papa's on chairs come from? And peer one says, we don't know, but we can tell you exactly. When we started selling them, it was the mid seventy s. And you say, okay, great. So papazon chairs hit the US. In the mid 70s, but then if you talk to somebody else at pier one, they might tell you that, no, actually, peer One sold them until the 60s. They just didn't blow up until the 70s. So that remains a tantalizing mystery as well. Yes. And what we do think we know is that the reason they blew up in the United States was because of the Vietnam War. And apparently here's what happened. As the story goes, american GIS would go to Vietnam. They would go and serve in the countries that surround Vietnam. And this is where it gets a little dodgy. Perhaps visit red light districts in these areas, perhaps as single soldiers with some spare change, I guess. Sure. And this is where they would find the papazon chair, is at these brothels. And papazon, this is where they think the name comes from, because it doesn't really make sense that the chair would be called the papazon chair if it comes from the Philippines, because that's a nonsensical word in the Philippines. It's actually Japanese, meaning like father or esteemed older man. Or if you're an American GI in the Vietnam War, papazon meant pimp and mamasan meant madam. There you have it. So it's possible, according to John Kelly's research, this is a theory, it's a pretty good one, that American GIS started calling these chairs papazon chairs, rather than just calling them straight up pimp chairs because that's who they'd seen lounging around in them in brothels. That's right. I think this part is fairly interesting. In 1977, there was and I guess in the surrounding years, but this is when this issue came out, but there was, I guess, a magazine called Mac Flyer, mac Capital Mac Flyer. And it was issued by the military Airlift Command Safety Office. And there was a character, Major CRTA, who was a pilot, fictional pilot, obviously, and it was all about his crew and their antics and stuff like that. And there was one issue in 77 that said this, and this is the guy doesn't know how to get his wife for Christmas. That's the set up. So he gets her everything and he says this, she's got that wombat skin coat I brought her back from Athens, the Honda gold wing from Tokyo, candlesticks from Bangkok, a giant brass table from Iran, two camel saddles from Turkey, a pair of elephants from Saigon, and a papasan chair from Clark, which was Clark Air Base in the Philippines. In the Philippines, right. So at least by the 70s in the military, in joke that you would assume any military guy would know is that you would associate papazon chairs with the Philippines. So that's pretty strong evidence for John Kelly's idea. Right. And the joke replied back in the comic was, sounds like her apartment is decorated in contemporary military. Should we take a break? Yeah. After that burner of joke. Yes. Alright, we'll be right back with more on the papazon. Okay, Chuck. So here's where it's possible that Pier One already had papazon chairs. Just no one was really paying attention to them. It was probably soldiers, American soldiers returning from Vietnam, who had seen these chairs in brothels in Southeast Asia and were like, holy cow, there's a pimp chair right there and they're selling them. I totally got to get one of those. Or people went over to military people's houses, saw them in their houses, and then also saw them at Peer One and thought, these are really cool. One way or another, they just hit just the right nerve. And definitely by the mid 70s, they were all the rage in the United States as far as home decor is concerned. Yeah. And it's occurring to me we haven't even described one because I just assumed papazans are so ubiquitous. If you grew up in the or 80s, even hanging out in the 90s, probably that you know what one is. But you might hear it called a rattan chair or perhaps bamboo or like a moon chair. And there were different models over the years. Some were smaller and had four legs and like a smaller cushion. When I think of a papa zone, I think of the almost comically large round saucer that is not attached to the round base. Right. You can angle it and move it around. You can make it completely flat, like a bowl of cereal, or you can tilt it up if you want to look like was it Isaac Hayes? Yes, sure. Although those chairs are different. And those are awesome, too. Yeah, it's like a ratan woven king chair thrown from Prom Pictures in. Yeah, but that's what the papazon is. And the big fish bowl one that I associate with that word had a very large cushion. A lot of times it was like flowers on it or palm trees or something like that. I just reminded myself of a PF. Tompkins bit where he talks about how he used to work in a hat store and they had all sorts of hats, and people would come in, they'd be like, let me try on one of them king hats. And he would say, what's the matter with you? Like, you and I both know that that's called a crown, not a king hat. Why did you call it king hat? He does it way better than me, but it kills. And I just called it a king chair, and then you corrected me. Quite rightly. It's a throne is what I meant. Oh, Paula, Tompkins the best. The best. So that's what I associate with the papa's on. Although, like I said, there have been other models, and over the years they've evolved into, like, instead of bamboo, it would be like woven string and stuff like that as the support base. Yeah, or metal. A lot of people have said, like, no, you don't have to associate them with hippies because they were definitely associated with hippies and artsy chic and definitely kind of like that whole I don't know what you call it, but the same people that had beads in their doorway probably had office on. Exactly. And you could buy that at Pier One, too. Right. But now people are saying, well, wait a minute. If you get rid of the base and you replace the base with something like with kind of thin tapered stick legs, it makes it suddenly mid century modern. So people have rethought it, and it's kind of made comebacks here and there. But if you ask me, that papa's on chair that you described, where you could move the bowl and be the cereal yourself, that's the all time great one. But you just have to have the right room for it because it totally ruins everything else in the room. If you have a theme going that's not papa's on themed yes. And be prepared to drink plenty of my ties. Nothing wrong with that. And John Kelly also found a bunch of people in here that he dug up through social media and stuff that had stories. It was kind of cool this one lady from Malaysia said in her native Malacca it was a very big thing in the shoot studio portraits of your kids and the smaller versions of these. Yes. Which is when they think they started introducing cushions, which means people were sitting around in these things without cushions. Just the ratan part sounds pretty awful. Yeah, that's no good. So they think that by the 70s, for sure, these things were commonplace in the Philippines and that they got picked up by then. And I assume you can still buy these brand new, right? I mean, I know you can get them used online virtually any day of the year. Yeah, that's another you can find trampolines and papa's on chairs in the classifieds all the time. But yeah, I think if you type in papazonshare.com, it takes you to peer one papa's on page. And they have them. I looked, and they're cheaper than you think. They're like $55, I think, for the highest end one. No, I'm seeing some look here. This one's 180. Right. Okay. I mean, just the traditional good kind that you and I were talking about. Like the Wicker Ratan version. Yeah, the cool. I like kind of like the hanging basket ones as well. Yes, these are very cool. Just make sure you hang it on a sturdy buttress, everybody. For sure. Well, since Chuck said sturdy buttress and we don't do listener mail, then that means that we are at the end of this short stuff. So short stuff. Adio. The stuff you should know is the production of iHeartRadio's how Stuff Works. For more podcasts my Heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows." | |
How Rehab Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-rehab-works | These days, alcoholics and other people suffering from addictions are often sent to rehabilitation centers to kick their habit. But how long has rehab been around, and how does it work? Listen in as Chuck and Josh present the fascinating process of rehab. | These days, alcoholics and other people suffering from addictions are often sent to rehabilitation centers to kick their habit. But how long has rehab been around, and how does it work? Listen in as Chuck and Josh present the fascinating process of rehab. | Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:46:09 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2010, tm_mon=11, tm_mday=11, tm_hour=17, tm_min=46, tm_sec=9, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=315, tm_isdst=0) | 44154187 | audio/mpeg | "This July, don't miss an entire summer of surprises on Disney Plus with Disney's High School Musical, the Musical, the Series season three Zombies, three Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness and the wonderful summer of Mickey Mouse. Plus new episodes of Marvel Studios, ms. Marvel and National Geographics. America the Beautiful. From the award winning producers of Planet Earth, Frozen Planet, and the Disney Nature Films, america the Beautiful takes viewers on a tour of the most spectacular and visually arresting regions of our great nation. All these and more streaming this month on Disney Plus with no fees or minimums on checking and savings accounts. Banking with Capital One is like the easiest decision in the history of decisions. Kind of like choosing to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast. And with their top rated app, you can deposit checks and transfer money anytime, anywhere, making Capital One an even easier decision that's banking reimagined what's in your wallet terms apply. Capital One NA Member FDIC brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry it's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant doing his cheeks. He's just informed that he has to do that for the rest of our career, whether he likes it or not, because it's our lucky thing. My cheeks are actually expanding. They're actually looser than they were two and a half years ago. I know. You look like Walter Matthew. Oh, God. He's one of those guys that he looked elderly when he was like in his forty s or twenty s. I think he kind of had that hunched overlook the sarcopenia. Yeah. If you will. Yes. Nice. Is that sarcopenia? That's muscle loss. Age related muscle loss. I thought that was literally the hunchback. That's where you get the hunch. Sure. Yeah. Like you lose control or you just lose your muscle mass, including the stuff that has you stand up. Right. So yeah, you're right. Okay. But he also had like, the jowls and like a 05:00 shadow that was ever present. Yeah, but he was just a great actor. Dude, I love him. He's bears so good. Yeah, he was great in that Bad News Bears and everything else. Starting Bad News Bears is a good one to start this one with because he was a drinker. He was a drinker. He was what you might call an alcoholic. Right? Yeah. In the 70s, though, everybody was an alcohol. Drive around with the schlitz in your car and it's no big deal now, let's say. But remember, Chuck, this is the third out of three. This is the end of the trifecta. This is the jewel in the crown jewels, in the family jewels. This is it. Yes. We did addiction, prohibition, and now rehab. Yes. If Walter Matthau had wanted to go to dry out, as they say sure. For his alcoholism in bad newspapers mid 70s in the mid seventies, he would have had a very limited choice of where he could go. Probably. Most likely he would have gone to what is called a sanitarium, aka an insane asylum, aka a mental hospital or a regular hospital. Yeah. But most likely it would have been some sort of medical, clinical setting where his addiction was treated. Yeah. It wouldn't be Private Malibu promises by the seashore. Not yet. Because rehab as we know it today, which makes the cover of tabloids as frequently as any celebrity just the concept of rehab does. Sure didn't start until the 80s. Actually, I thought I was very shocked by that. Have you ever seen Valley of the Dolls? I have not. Believe it or not, that's a good movie. I had actually forgotten that I'd seen that movie until I reread this article that I wrote. I think I'd seen the movie. I guess at some point around there, it was like, oh, yeah, valley of the Dolls is perfect. If you have not seen Valley of the Dolls, go see it. It's an excellent movie. And Petty Duke's character goes to dry out at a sanitarium, which means shock treatment and being strapped down so you can't drink it could be. And like, if you had been going to one far enough ago in, say, the you're particularly rebel, rousing alcoholic or drug addict, they may have lobotomized you. Yeah. McMurphy style. Yeah, exactly. So, Josh, you kind of blew the cover off of the fact. Well, that was the first fact. Yeah. They didn't start till the eighties. Hey, I've been doing this a while. So where are we now, then? Well, now as they exist now as they exist now. One of the other things that would have changed that anyone listening to our Prohibition and Addiction podcast would know that one of the other things that changed and burgeon alongside of rehabs as we know it, non medical facilities, is the idea that addiction is a brain disease, which we should cover real quick. Yeah. A little rehash. So before it was stun gravy, it was blamed on the demon juice. Right. It was inherent in that substance. Yeah, that was the evil thing, was the substance itself. Then it shifted and all this started about the 19th century, late 18th century, early 19th century. The concept of addiction came about. Then it shifted from the stun gravy to the person. It was a character flaw. Right? Yeah, exactly. Something's wrong with you because you are not able to drink. You have a weak will. Yeah. Not able to not drink until you fall down flat. Right, exactly. And then finally, in the would say about the idea that addiction is a brain disease, that there is a process that an addict, a substance user, undergoes and becomes a substance abuser that is the direct result of the substance hijacking that person's reward center in their brain. Exactly. That the decision of whether or not to engage in that risky behavior or do that substance. Sure. Snort it, shoot it, smack it, slam it, drop it, that kind of thing oh, no. Is out of the user's hands. And therefore, they're an addict. It's a disease. It's a chronic disease that has relapses and all that kind of stuff. It needs boosters. So that model, the brain disease model, along with the creation of rehab, is where we are now? Well, yeah. Well, it's not funny, because I'm sure you're playing this, but the fact that you mentioned the temperance movement and prohibition and figuring out what addiction was, they actually ended up leading to rehab, because back in those days, were they called sober houses? Yeah. So we're getting locked up, basically, right. Where you can't drink. Did you see the picture? You don't get the pictures, do you? No. Okay, so check that picture out. I think that's Carrie Nation, the head of the Women's Christian Temperance Union, standing next to a man who's taking a sip, and she's, like, standing at a bar looking a little upset. The definition of buzz kill. Exactly. So the temperance movement definitely gave rise to rehab by setting up, like you said, called sober houses. Like the drunk tank. Almost like on Andy Griffith, you would lock up the drunk. Of course, on Andy Griffith, the guy was in the drunk tank. Otis, I think, for weeks and weeks. I think they more resembled, like, halfway houses that are like transitional homes between prison and society. I wouldn't know about those. I think you know your dad's house. Yeah. Okay. I think that they resembled that. It was like, this house is among houses, and you can't get booze there. You can't bring booze. You kind of need to say where you're going and why. They set up these houses called sober houses that were sequestering people from regular society because alcohol was out there. And that was like, the first rehab centers in the United States in the 1840s, I think. Man, that's crazy. They did this that long ago. And then we did the failed noble experiment, prohibition, which was basically like, if you can rid society of alcohol, you can rid society of alcoholics, but you can't. So maybe we can at least set up places for them if they have troubles. Right. They went back to the sober house idea. It's interesting that prohibition actually kind of led to rehabilitation clinics. Yeah. And more drinking. Well, that's not true, because they said overall, it went down but 30% to 50% across the board. But the number of alcoholics increased. Yes, exactly right. So, Chuck, where are we? We're past the 1930s. One of the other things that came up not just rehab as we understand it today, like a place where you go that's sequestered from the temptations of society to rehabilitate yourself. One of the other things that came about as a direct result of prohibition in the temperance movement is twelve step programs, specifically Alcoholics Anonymous, right? Yeah. Doctor Bob and Bill W. Robert Smith and Bill Wilson created this in 1935. And I don't think I realized it was that old either. Yeah. Long time ago. I remember Bill W wanted to give everybody acid who came through the program because he was like, really great. Yeah. He thought it might help. Yeah. That was the first support group treatment program and the Twelve Steps. Well, let's not jump there. Let's just finish the history out. Well, the International Order of Good Templars. Oh, yeah. They were a society dedicated to assisting alcoholics during the temperance movement, supporting and they created these support groups that eventually gave rise to this AA model and proven, like you're about to say so successful. Yeah. Which we'll get to. And then Chuck right. At this point, thanks to AA almost exclusively, and the idea that you can treat you can lick it. Yeah. You can treat addiction, especially in a medical setting, before the advent of the started throwing money not just at eradicating the supply of illicit substances, but also the demand, and even more so, the demand under Nixon. Right. Yeah. Dick Nixon put two thirds of his drug, kind of anti drug policy money toward recovery and treatment, which is really kind of a forward thinking thing, if you think about it. In today's turn for Nixon, you would have thought, let's throw all of it toward locking people up. Yeah. But Ford came along and redistributed that to about a half and half model. Half toward policing and arresting and trying to get drugs off the street, and half toward treating people with the disease. Why is that ironic? Chuck It's ironic because you might have heard of the Betty Ford Clinic, and that was his wife, who had a pretty bad pill addiction and alcoholism problem. And she started it. She was like, oh, I can get clean and I should set up a treatment center. Yeah. And she did in Rancho Mirage, California, the Betty Ford Clinic in 1982, it opened its doors, and that, I think, was one of the models for the current incarnation of rehab. That was the first big and I know celebrities went there, but that was just the first all star treatment center that you heard on the news. And probably not. Probably most definitely, because her name was on it. And also her lending her name to that treatment facility and admitting that she had been addicted to pills and booze. It also had a lot of a big effect, I think, on getting people into treatment. Sure. Because it is still but it was at the time even more so. Such a shameful thing to be addicted to something. Oh, yeah. Still is. But it's way more accepted now. But in like religious circles. I know it's still pretty shameful. Sure. I would definitely imagine so. But I think even the first lady can get hooked then yeah. And if the First Lady can kick it, then I can, too. You know what other effect it had? I bet what? People with the name Ford not naming their daughters Betty. I'll bet you would name your daughter Betty Ford, would you? No. Well, I might, but I'm kind of a jokey kind of guy. Betty Ford. Clark betty Ford. Clinic clerk. That reminds me, actually. I think I might have told you this. My friend Joey used to say that if he ever had a son, he would name him Thomas Magnum Dorleck. His last name is Dorleck. I think that's a good I thought that's pretty good. It's a good name. But he had, like, three sons that didn't name any of them that he's a liar. Yeah, he's a lying liar. And he's been called out as a liar on this. I don't think he listens. Once Reagan got into office, the policy of paying more for policing the supply side than paying any attention to the demand side was continued. The War on drugs. The War on drugs in earnest. But by this time, people were seeing, like, okay, rehab can work. Sure. It's a viable solution to treating our nation's substance abuse problems. And it was kind of etched in popular culture, in American psyche, and it boomed like private institutions all over the country started popping up. Yeah. And I think also that Just Say no campaign and the idea of drug addiction and how bad it was probably got a lot more kids thrown into rehab by their parents than it ever been before. Yeah, like 13 year old who snuck some beer out one night, they're all sudden in rehab. Exactly. I've heard stories about that. Didn't you go to high school? I did go to high school. So, Chuck, let's talk about different types of treatment. There are four, really? Actually, three. Technically four. And by the way, I need to change the headings of this. I need to switch to chapter headings, I realized, because it's very misleading. Well, we can do it on the fly. I'm going to start with inpatient. Is that still correct? Yeah. Okay. Inpatient. And we should point out this can take place in a private facility. It can be in a hospital still. I think prison, you said, is a big place for forced rehab. It is technically an inpatient facility. Very much inpatient. Yeah. You're not going anywhere. What inpatient is, though, just like, being a hospital stay, it means you're there, living there. Twenty four seven. Yeah. Usually for that 28 days for any Sandra Bullock fans. Probably more for this podcast for any Viggo Mortensen fans. 28 days, not 28 days later. Right, the other one. Oh, is he? In 28 days, Vigo. Yeah, he played a sex addicted, like, football star or something like that. That's funny. I ran into him, like, three times in one week in La. One time, really? To the point where he looked at me and he was like, Are you following me? I thought he was going to kill me. Yeah. No, not Vigo Mortensen. I was thinking, who's the creepy guy from Buffalo 66? Vincent Gallo. Yeah. Disregard that whole story. I could see him. Yeah. I wouldn't want to run into him that third time. I'd be afraid of him for sure, thinking anything like that. Have you seen hide and seek? No. That's an awesome movie. Really? It is so twisted interesting. It's a thriller. Okay. Vincent Gallo. Jennifer Tilly is excellent in it. Darryl Hannah actually does a really good job. That's pretty much the cast, and it's really something. I have to check that out. All right, so where were we? We were impatient. We were staying overnight. Josh is where we were. And that can range, like you said, from 28 days all the way to basically when you need to leave six months a year or when your insurance runs out. Yeah. If you're in there for a year, then you might be a hopeless case. That'd be pretty bad. Yeah. You really just inspired the hearts of a lot of people who've been in rehab for eleven months. I know. And it can be court ordered as well. And they also, in some of these long term programs can offer you like, resocialization, because I imagine being in a rehab clinic for three or four months. Six months, right. They're like keep your milk in a refrigerator, or failing that, a cool wet sack. Outpatient is next. That's basically where you go in to visit on a set schedule. It could be daily. Right. But you're doing your regular life, you're sleeping at home, you're going to work, and then probably in between work and going to sleep, you're spending a significant amount of time in counseling and group sessions. Twelve step, maybe receiving medication. Methadone treatment usually takes the form of outpatient treatment, and it's actually one of the longest treatments, apparently, is prescription methadone treatment to get you off of the white pony. Yeah. Whenever I see those on the documentaries, it's very much outpatient. Like, you literally see the junkie walk up to the window to get his daily dose or her of methadone. Yes. Lastly, there is partial hospitalization. This is basically the opposite of outpatient, right? Well, it's not the opposite, but it's pretty close. Rather than go to work from nine to five and then go to rehab, you go to rehab from nine to five during the day, but you stay at home and all that. I don't understand the difference in that. And outpatient. Outpatient, you're just not necessarily there all day. You might go for your two hour meeting and leave every day. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Whereas partial hospitalization, you're spending way more time there during the partial hospitalization treatment. Because after work for outpatient, you're there for maybe a couple of hours, 3 hours. But it's like a part of your day instead of going home and sitting on the couch and watching TV. You're going to rehab or going to happy hour? You don't want to do that. Well, no, that's what I'm saying. Oh, yeah. After work, it's probably a good time for a lot of people because a lot of people associate the 05:00 bell ringing with that first drink. Right, exactly. I'm sure that's a huge part of it as well. Partial hospitalization is where you're spending your days in rehab and then you go home. That is your job. Yes. Okay. Your job is to get well, prison. You mentioned prison or I did. And when they do this in prison, they take you out of the general population, typically. Didn't we have somebody right in after the prison? Yeah, the listener mail on prisons. The guy was like it was the easiest place to score drugs I've ever been, was prison. I think that's kind of cool, though. It shows, like, a real dedication to rehab among prisons by taking the people away rather than pretending like there's not a problem. Exactly. And I could actually see that being the case where they said, no, we're rehabbing people, but they're getting drugs being passed between the bars and readily and other things. It's Keystored So. Chuck, let's talk about treatment. Technically, I would call this one how rehab works. I wanted to switch those two. Okay, got you. Because, really, types of treatment was what we just talked about. Right? Yeah. And then how rehab works is what we're about to talk about. I just don't know how that got passed. Well, it did. So let's talk about how rehab works. Man well, it's a long process. Don't expect to be out of there in a week. Although that one program that you point out says they can do it in six days. Which one? Six months. Oh, six months program? Yeah. Was that six months? Six months or six weeks? Six weeks. I'm sorry. Okay. Six weeks. Chuck. So I would say don't plan on spending more than, like, a week in your rehabilitation clinic would be my guess. Yeah. We fail to mention Ers can technically be an inpatient rehab that lasts long enough to get you over your withdrawals or to bring you back to life from an acute drug overdose. So if you are taken to the hospital odd, they'll keep you there as long as you're physically or until you're physically well. Yes. Which can drugs out of your body. Yeah. It can rehabilitate you. It can last for as little as several hours, like you said, months and months, possibly a year. Right. But yeah. Everybody who buys into the brain disease model of addiction says, okay, because of this, there's a lot of facets to addiction, which means there's a lot of facets to rehabilitation. Sure. It's going to take a while. Yeah. But step one is always just withdrawal the drugs out of your body and get clean physically. Yeah. And you're not going to have any physical withdrawal from behavioral addiction, impulsive behavior, but you're still probably going to have a rough time at first with the desire to do that when you are stable, I guess. And probably before you're stable, you're probably going to be introduced to a twelve step program of some sort right. Now, did AA create the twelve step? Yes. Okay. Yeah. There was no such thing as the twelve step before that, but there's all sorts of variations on the 12th step now. Yeah. And one of the things like we were saying, AA is incredibly successful. It's been study after study after study done on AA and any kind of relapse associated with the people who go through it. Right. And it's a very successful program, but it's also very criticized often because, one, it's criticized for being too indulgent on the attic's ego. Sure. Right. Like, this is not your fault, it's all okay. Or if you go through these steps, you're going to be a great person. And it's also very reliant on a belief in God. Yeah, I don't think it's not like a Christian God or JudeoChristian God or any specific God, but I think they call it like a higher power. And there's plenty of atheist addicts out there. Well, I actually looked at the original twelve steps today, and they say the word God in four of the twelve steps. But before that first mention of God, it says God as you understand him to be. So that's the little caveat. We're not saying, like you said, the Judeo Christian God must be the one, but they definitely say you got to have a higher power here. Also. It's not going to work. Right. And the problem is there's a lot of people whose conception of God is that they understand them to be nonexistent. Right. Or that I am God. Right, yeah. There's like a joke that just flitted right through my prefrontal cortex. It wasn't funny. So, Chuck, Narcotics Anonymous, I believe, and some others, but most notably Narcotics Anonymous has adjusted the twelve step model to accommodate atheists as well. And you know what? I bet regular AA meetings are a little less centered on that now. That would be my guess. They probably wouldn't refuse you at the door if you said you were an atheist. I don't think they refuse you or try to convert. What they're saying is like, if you're an atheist and you don't buy into the God thing, you're not going to be as successful as somebody who does because part of is like giving it over to this higher power. Okay. So I don't think that they're exclusive or anything like that. I think that it's like atheists aren't going to do as well. Got you. All right. Have they done studies on that, Owender? I'm sure I bet they have. I didn't go to that detail, though. It's okay. CBC, is that next? Yeah. Cognitive behavioral counseling, which is psychotherapy. And that is when they I mean, they can treat mental disorders, they can treat depression, PTSD, and basically they're trying to eradicate addiction from the life of someone by looking at their behavior very thoroughly. Most therapy that anyone goes in for these days is cognitive behavior therapy. One of the most prevalent. And yeah, it's looking at behavior. First of all, it's recognizing the patterns of behavior, especially destructive patterns of behavior, and then figuring out why you're doing that and then eradicating it. And it's this multi step process. CBC is less effective, according to studies, as twelve step programs by itself, either one. By themselves. Right. Twelve step usually beats cognitive behavioral counseling. Right? Yes. What about meds? Well, if you need meds like methadone to get through your treatment, then your rehab center is probably going to have them for you. Or antidepressants are a big one, too. Sure. And one of the things that's very effective is identifying usually through CBC, other underlying comorbid conditions. Like if you have a binge eating disorder or you are depressed and an alcoholic treating those two things simultaneously in the same umbrella has been shown to provide the most success. Sure. Because if you're depressed and you can't get treatment for alcoholism if you're suffering through depression and just leave the depression alone. Right. Because you're probably an alcoholic because of your depression. Probably. Or it could be because you're an alcoholic. But that doesn't necessarily mean that curing your alcoholism will cure your depression if you've gone into a clinical degree of depression right. Like a chicken or the egg kind of scenario. Yes. To get to the other side. And acupuncture, josh, you mentioned a few nontraditional methods. Acupuncture is one of them. Have you ever done that? I have not. Have you? It's awesome. Yeah, I can imagine. It's one of the most relaxing things I've ever done in my life, actually. I went to a place in La that had a school where you could get really cheap acupuncture. Was Vincent Gallo your acupuncture was actually but he used nails. Ten penny nails. It's very relaxing. It's not painful at all if you're a little weirded out by needles. Yeah, because I'm totally freaked out by needles. But it's not like that. I'm freaked out about them not thoroughly cleaning their needles enough. I've heard accusations of that other new, though not all the time. The ones I got were taking out a little package there right in front of me. Yeah, I'm sure. Like most of them. But there's ones out there that are just like yeah, needles I just used to some other guy because I'm cheap. If they're wiping blood off the end of them, I wouldn't get that. If you are a scientologist, you might go in for Elron's patented addiction treatment, maybe we'll call it. Yeah, it's like a vitamin regimen and exercise sauna is part of it. What else? The Judith is a program. We talked about that. No meds. No meds at all. And I don't remember because I didn't go back and look, but I got the impression that they're kind of something of a closely guarded secret. Right. And it may or may not be viewed suspiciously by conventional rehabs. Oh, really? But they boast a 65% success rate for their six week stays. Wow. And yeah, they don't use meds. It's all just like, you are a bad person, and they're like, you eat like this and they push your head down into a dog bowl. Then they do a Clockwork Orange movie viewing, experience your eyes, and then six weeks later you're like, I'll never do that again. Josh, let's say you love eastern medicine and things like acupuncture, and you're afraid that if you go into your traditional rehab clinic that they won't oblige to those kinds of things. Is that a worry that you should worry about? It depends on how much money you have. Oh, really? Yeah. Some of the higher end ones will combine a lot of stuff, even cool stuff like helicopter rides or wilderness survival, based on the idea that things like wilderness survival can show you how self reliant you can be. Or a helicopter ride is meant to just be like, wow, look at how beautiful life is even without booze. Right. Or maybe acupuncture, spa treatments, things like that. The higher end, you go more pleasurable the experience is going to be, I imagine. I'm glad that works. But when I hear something like that, I think, look how beautiful the world looks from a helicopter flight along the shore of the Pacific Coast. You don't need drugs to witness this, but you need a helicopter, right? Yeah, exactly. You come out like hooked on helicopter rides. I guess what they're looking for is just to inspire you with that notion that, yeah, I don't need it, so I agree with you, though. I think that's trying to be funny. No, but it was funny and true, Chuck, which is the best kind. This stuff actually does work. As we said, people have been studying this stuff since they started in the things that they found that the most effective kind of treatment is rehab, where you are sequestered away or you have some form of rehabilitation treatment. Right. A twelve step group and weekly counseling, like cognitive, throwing everything at it. Sure. Meds are not necessarily included in that. Yeah, I noticed that. But being part of a group, especially twelve step group, plus counseling, plus a stint at rehab is the most successful as far as the rate of relapse goes. Yeah. To the tune of 87%. The Target Cities Project study quoted, if you do all those three things, that's an 87% chance of not relapsing after six months. Yes. And get this, this is surprising to me. I remember this when you factor in treatment dropouts, people who just were like, I'm not going. To stay the whole 28 days, but I'm going to keep going to a weekly twelve step meeting. Right. And I'm going to go to counseling five times a week, which is a lot. They still had a success rate. The absence rate was 74%. So even without treatment drops. Yeah, it's not bad. No. And then at 62%, actually, it keeps going down if you complete the treatment program aspect. But you didn't go to the twelve step meetings, and you did go to counseling. So the two out of the three, minus the twelve step, you have a 62% chance. Right. So the twelve step, as they found, is the most significant, followed closely by individual counseling. Yeah. Usually CBC. And what they found is that a person who goes to 412 step sessions a month, or one, even one counts individual counseling session per month more than anybody else, has a 40% better chance of success in remaining abstinent. Well, that says that these work. These programs work. They actually do work. But here's the thing. They work best. Again, studies show when the person is ready and willing to give up this behavior. Yes. That's what they always say when you got to be ready to change anything in your life in order for that to change. Yes, and that makes sense. Otherwise you're just doing it for your parents or your wife or your husband. And if it's not coming from you, then good luck. Do you know what's funny, though? What's that? I just realized that that was conventional thinking, but with the advent of prison rehab yeah. New information studies have also shown that if you force someone in the rehab, in prison, specifically, they still have a pretty high success rate and abstinence rate, and even a lower rate of recidivism. Right. It's a bonehead word. Yes, you're right. No. What if you were a global bank who wanted to supercharge your audit system? So you tap IBM to UNSILO your data and with the help of AI, start crunching a year's worth of transactions against thousands of compliance controls. 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They have ecommerce templates, inventory management, really simple checkout process and secure payment. So whatever you want to sell, you can sell it on squarespace. Yeah, don't just take our word for it. Head to squarespace. Comssk and start your free trial today. And then when you're ready to launch, use our offer code s YSK, and you'll get 10% off your first purchase of a website that's squarespace.com. Sysksksquarespace. Oh, was that the end? Yeah, well into that tune, Josh. They've now got these awesome situations called drug courts where they pass out drugs for you to take before your sentence. Drug courts actually are when it's set up specifically for drug cases, and instead of putting you in jail, they sent it to you, to treatment programs. And out of the 100% of people in treatment programs in the United States, 36% were referred there by the courts. Right. In 2004, yes. That's a lot. Yeah. Let's talk some stats, buddy. In 2008, so I wrote this in, I think 2007, maybe about seven. Yeah. And I think the most recent statistics I could get were about 2005. Yeah. So it was about 3.9 million people in 2005 that went in for treatment. In 2008, it was pretty much the same 4 million people in the US. Aged twelve or older went for treatment for drugs or alcohol or possibly both. Right. Of that 4 million people, that was a fifth of the estimated people who were current illicit drug users in the US. In that same year. So not very many people are going to rehab. No, but I also wonder, like, what percentage of that 20 million illicit current drug users, which are people who admit to have used the drug within the past month. Right. Age twelve or older admitted to using pot and just pot. Right? Sure. I don't think they take you at rehab for pot. No, they do. Do they really? Oh, yeah. There's pot, marijuana specific rehabilitation groups. I don't know about clinics where you actually stay, but I know there's marijuana addiction groups for sure. I did not know that. 17 million, though. Hold on, this is a much better stat. 17 million heavy drinkers in the US. Age twelve or older. I wonder how many of the 20 million and the 17 million overlap. Right? Well, you mentioned 4 million and you said some were in there for both. You actually had the stat one 3 million out of the 4 million were in there for both drugs and alcohol. Got you zero. 8 million for just drugs and 1.6 million for just alcohol. So what does that say? About what's the real gateway drug? I don't know, because we talked about that, remember? During the prohibition podcast, you and I predicted that if I think I predicted, you didn't necessarily agree that prohibition has taught us that if you legalize something or if you prohibit something, it makes it more forbidden. But apparently it's not the case. No, I agree with that. Well, these numbers show different. I mean, alcohol you can get everywhere, so it's clearly a big problem. Yeah, it's true. Maybe you were both wrong. Maybe. Let's talk about money, because these things aren't cheap, necessarily. No. When you look at the grand total, and especially if you want to meet Eric Clapton, it's not cheap. In 2002, Josh, the average cost of a program was about $1,400 residential at $3,800 and outpatient methadone treatment for $7,400 for the average cost of a full treatment program. Right. And that's the average cost. They go up considerably. If you're interested in the luxury tour. Right. I had down that promises. Not Promises Crossroads, which was founded by Eric Clapton. It's in the West Indies and Antigua. It was 15 grand per month. Apparently, it's gone up since 2007. It's now 19. Five a month. Right. Yeah. It's a lot of money. That is a tremendous amount of money. But it is far and away not as expensive as the most expensive one that I found, that you found, I should say, is the sanctuary in Byron Bay, Australia. Holy cow. I didn't see that. $18,500 per week. Per week. A week. So Clapton is 19,500 for a month. That's a bargain. Passages in Malibu is 40 to 50 grand a month. Promises, which you've all heard of because Ben Affleck and Robert Downey Jr. Had a lovely stay there, among others, 33,000 per month. And they've all had their roster of celebrities depending on where you live. Yeah. And isn't that kind of odd? If you step back and look at it, celebrity and rehab is just there are hand in hand. Our fascination with both are equal to your career, publicity wise. Sure can. Which is weird. It is weird. It's also weird when you look at the fact that it says there's, like, a one to one correlation of how luxurious the rehab is and what list, a list or B list you're on as an actor. Because promises, like I said, Charlie Sheen, Ben Affleck, Robert Downey, and then you work your way down to Cottonwood and Tucson at a mere $1,000 per day has had the likes of Rowan Atkinson and Spice Girl. Jerry Hallelujah. $1,000 per day is still that ain't cheap. No per day. Yeah. Okay. I take that back then. Rowan Atkinson is making some cheese, apparently. I didn't know that Mr. Bean went to rehab. I didn't either. And we shouldn't make fun of Jerry Halliwell because the Spice Girls are the best selling female band of all time. Is that right? That was one of our trivia questions. So people are kind of like, yes, celebrities can afford this. What if I'm an average Joe who's trying to kick the dope? Well, insurance can cover a lot of it. It used to cover even more. It used to be about 30% was paid by insurance. Right. And then by 2003, the burden of cost had shifted away. From not just the insurers, which were paying about 8%, and not even the patients, who are paying just 10%, but to the state generally, society taxpayers, medicaid started picking up a lot of the tab, up to 60% of the tab, and so let's say 78% between the insurance company, Medicaid, and the patient. And then the rest is being picked up by other state agencies. The burden of cost shifted to society, which made a lot of people start to wonder, wait a minute, wait a minute. What are we doing here? Right. And so the cost benefit analysis was born as far as rehab goes. Right. So there's something to that, though, when you look at the fact that in 2000 and 320 billion dollars and change was spent overall, medicaid picked up 60% of that. So about twelve or so. And you think that's a lot of money, $12 billion. But they did a study that they looked at the cost of alcohol and illicit drug use, including tobacco, and that includes healthcare, crime, property theft, stuff like that. Prison. $500 billion in 2002 alone. Wow. Okay. So 12 billion paid by the state to offset 500 billion in cost to society is a pretty good deal. Well, that's what I think. You get some of these people healthy, they might not be robbing you. They might not be crashing their car into your loved ones. They might not be stealing things and going to prison, and you're putting the bill for all that. There was a study by the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholics that also found that for every dollar spent on rehab, $3 were saved in larger costs to society, which is not bad. It's a pretty good return on investment is what they call that. Well, yeah. And when you break down, those numbers sound expensive. And obviously the luxury places are expensive no matter who you are. But I think they also skew the average quite a bit as well. Yeah, but if you look at a per visit treatment average cost, it's really not that bad outpatient. Nonmethodone treatments are about $26 per visit. That's the one where you go to work and then go to rehab after work. Right. Non hospital residential treatment, just like Promises and Crossroads. $76 per day on average. That's including every place. That's including the place in the back of Joe's Crab Shack, where they lock you up for 28 days to the place in Byron Bay, Australia. But when you break it down like that, it's not that much money. No. And even more so, methadone, which you'll remember, the average is about $7,400 in 2002. It's also the longest overall, the longest treatment overall, and that broke down to $17.78 per visit to get somebody off of the dope, which is pretty I think that's worth investing in. And that includes the methadone, too, right? The actual yeah, that's the whole shebang. Yeah. And then check. There's also the human expense that you're saving that cost when you invest in treating addicts. Right. There was a study by Biotai, I think, that said that there are 12 million alcoholics in the United States, roughly. Right. And if you consider that each alcoholic has a spouse, possibly children and family in some way, say five people that are in that alcoholics life, that means that 60 million Americans are affected by alcoholism. Wow. And affected not in good way. Well, I'm possibly creating new alcoholics for future generations to pay for, too. Yeah, got to think about that. So, Chuck, I would say that that is the end of the addiction rehabilitation trifecta. Actually, you know what we should mention, though? Did you read? A Million Little Pieces, the book by James Fry. No, that was the one that was specifically told by Oprah not to read. Well, that's the deal, is that was the infamous best seller about a memoir, quote unquote memoir about one young man's stay in rehab, and it is awesome. It was found out afterward, famously, to not be 100% true after Oprah had said it was the best memoir she had ever read. So he took a lot of heat over that. I read the book and it's amazing and you should read it. I wrote the guy letter saying, dude, I don't care whether it's true or not, just call it a novel and call it great. And he was like, thanks, man, I really appreciate that. He wrote you back? Yeah, a letter. Well, an email. So I recommend people read it. Just don't get all mad and say this isn't true. Just consider it a novel, and a very good novel at that. That's what I say. Okay. It's really good. And for every dollar spent on James Fry's book, million Little Pieces, chuck is day. I wish. So if you want to learn more about addiction, rehab, prohibition, anything like that, type those words into the search bar, how stuff works.com. It'll bring up some delightful articles. And it's time now at long last, listener mail. Josh I'm going to call this email from a new twelve year old fan. I saw this one from Emma, or maybe that was Emma's mother's email address, I'm not sure, but it's Emma. No kids these days, they have their own email. Hi, Josh. And Chuckers and Jerry. I don't know when I can do this, but I'm going to donate to Kiva. I am twelve years old and I'm going to get a job walking dogs and babysitting, et cetera. As soon as I do get $25, I will donate it. But to get the job, I have to print flyers to pass out. To print flyers, we need to buy ink. To buy ink, we need extra money. That isn't going to stuff we need right now. But you do have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. Emma that's right. And if you want to work at the omelet station, especially if you want to be the squire of the Omelette station. That's right. Got to break a few eggs. But please read this part of the podcast guy whenever it happens. I am going to save up the money because I'm getting this babysitting job, babysitting snotty nose kids, so I can give this money to Kiva and tell everyone they have no excuse if you have a real job, that one's from Emma. And thank you very much, Emma. I think my hat is off to you. If Chuck were wearing a cap, he would tip it. If you're one of Emma's neighbors, please forgive her for her description of your kids and hire her anyway, because it's going to go toward a good cause. That's right. Right. And if Emma can do this, you can do this too. If you want to donate to the donate heck lend, you get the money back if you want. Yeah. In $25 increments. You can go on to www dotano. Join our team, leave some messages on the message board, make some donations, have a good time. Right? Agreed. And if you want to email us to let us know what you're doing to save the world, whether it be dog walking or babysitting snotnose kids or what have you, we want to hear about it in an email. 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http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podcasts.howstuffworks.com/hsw/podcasts/sysk/2017-10-24-sysk-simpsons-part-one-final.mp3 | Episode 999: The Simpsons Spectacular Part I | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/episode-999-the-simpsons-spectacular-part-i | For our 999th and 1,000th episodes, we go down the rabbit hole on a TV show that quite literally altered popular culture as we know it. The Simpsons has been around since Josh and Chuck were in grade school, and is still cranking out episodes today. Join | For our 999th and 1,000th episodes, we go down the rabbit hole on a TV show that quite literally altered popular culture as we know it. The Simpsons has been around since Josh and Chuck were in grade school, and is still cranking out episodes today. Join | Tue, 24 Oct 2017 15:28:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2017, tm_mon=10, tm_mday=24, tm_hour=15, tm_min=28, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=297, tm_isdst=0) | 48295697 | audio/mpeg | "Picture this, friends. You could be packing a carry on for a trip to Hawaii when you realize you're going to need a bigger bag. But it's cool because you booked your flight with your city advantage platinum select card so you can check a bag for free on domestic travel and still have room for those souvenirs. And surprise, those souvenirs also earned you advantage miles. Actually, you earned advantage miles and loyalty points with each swipe. So let's start dreaming about your next next adventure. This could be you, and you could be anywhere with the cityadvantageplatinum select card. Learn more at citi comAdventure and travel on with cityadvantage. What if we could change the world one relationship at a time? Don't miss the second season of force multiplier, the awardwinning podcast from iHeartRadio and salesforce.org about tackling some of today's biggest challenges like climate change, education, access and global health. Listen in is host barratoon day. Thurston connects with impactful organizations like the trevor project, doctors without borders and the university of kentucky. Plus inspiring individuals like amy allison and Juan acosta to discuss ways to maximize our impact. Listen to force multiplier on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to stuff you should know from HowStuffWorks.com. Hi and welcome to the simpsons. I mean the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w, chuck bryant there's jerry over there. And this is chuck, episode 999. Yeah. Well, you know how I think of this? I think of it as 1000, just a big, fat 1000 that had to leak onto two days. It actually leaked back in time. How amazing is that? Yes. Because we have to do a two parter, because upon looking at this research and this topic, very special topic for us, for the show, we realized it had to be a two parter. And rather than do 10 00 10 01, what kind of person would do that? An unhoousome person. Yeah. Okay, so this is episode 999. In your view, it's really just part of episode 1000. I'm with you on that. Yes. Can you believe that? You know what, Chuck? Up until today, I could totally believe it. But the fact that we're doing the simpsons for our thousand th episode, it drove everything home. Like, all the gear teeth fell right into place, and now the gears are spinning in sync and I can feel it, and I'm amazed. Yeah. So we just wanted to acknowledge the 1000 here upfront, and I think, frankly, we're doing that because we're both so excited about doing this. I think I should tell people what you emailed earlier. We were furiously sending links back and forth this week, and you said, I don't even want to record. I just want to keep researching the simpsons forever. It's true, man. Last night, Chuck, I was sitting there watching simpsons episodes, and I thought, well, this is the pinnacle of my career. I am literally being paid to watch the simpsons yeah. And we just had to stop. We could have done this for weeks and researched. And this could be an entire podcast into itself with 1000 episodes. Well, maybe not a thousand. Close to it. Let's say 998. But at some point, we had to stop. So just know if we didn't cover your favorite thing from the show that's been on for 30 years, or if we're not referring to episodes under their specific naming convention, calm down. Yeah. It's just impossible. So we're going to do our best here to talk about some of our favorite stuff and a little bit about how the show works. But here we go. Right? Oh, man. Let's do it. This is like an actual intro. Yes, that was an actual response. So, Chuck yes? Have you ever seen the Simpsons? I have, sir. You caught it back from the beginning. Like, that was right in our wheelhouse. Maybe even yours. A little more than mine. Yeah. And we should go ahead and just talk for a moment about episode one, because I have a very distinct memory, which is I'm in high school. It's my senior year. All right, thanks, Chris. Bouton, my friend and future roommate in college, calls me and he says, dude, I have to admit, I did not see the Tracy Alman shorts. So let's get that out of the way right now. They were bizarre. Yeah, that's where the show began, as most people know, as little short animated bits in The Tracy Alman show. But Chris Putin calls me up, says, man, I'm coming over. I'm meeting you in the basement. Open the back door. I have a VHS of this show called The Simpsons. You got to see it. And he met me over there. It was winter. It was December. Well, it aired on the 17th. On the 17th. But I have a feeling this was the next day, probably. And Bouton came over, and we watched the very first episode, which was Santa's Little Helper, and we cried tears of joy and laughter in my life. Went on a different course. Yeah. Boots did not visit my house personally with the video. We didn't call him Boots, by the way. Well, I'm calling him Boots. That's new nickname, Boots. That's classic Boots, by the way, to show up in the basement. Oh, yeah. But he did not come to my house. But I did see that one, and I think I saw it when it aired, actually. I remember watching the Tracy Oleman shorts, too, and just being like, what the hell is this? But then by the time, I think The Tracy Oleman show and we'll get a little more into it, that one started in 87, and the actual show started in 89. So between those two points, it really started to come together to where that first episode where Homer finds out he's not getting a Christmas bonus, so he gets a job secretly as a mall Santa and ends up taking his check to the dog track and betting it all and losing it all on Santa's Little Helper, which was the dog. Right. But then he ends up with Santa's Little Helper, so he gets what he was after all along, which is a great Christmas present for his family. Right. What a beautiful episode. Right? Yeah. And interestingly, that first episode was really the 8th one to be made, but they ran that one first, so there were some weird differences. Like the show actually, originally, I think Matt granny thought it would be redrawn, a little more slickly, but they just traced over his original drawings. So the animation was fairly crude in this episode. And then you'll notice in episode two, it actually looks a little bit better. Okay. And The Simpsons still looks like The Simpsons, but that early episode and kind of the whole first season was a little more crude in drawing and voice. And the pilot was the only episode missing that very famous opening sequence, which we'll talk about a little bit later. Oh, yeah. Wasn't it like a cold opening or something like that? I can't remember exactly how, but it didn't feature the iconic opening that we all know and love today. Got you. So where shall we start, Chuck? I mean, I guess we kind of just did start. Yeah, and I think I already made a mistake. About what? Well, Santa's Little Helper wasn't the name of the episode. It was Simpsons roasting on an open fire. Yeah, but I mean, come on, that's the one that you were talking about. Yeah, but I know that probably 25,000 people just slam their laptop shut. But that's what I'm saying. Everybody chill out. That's not what this episode is about. We're not trying to show you how little you know that's right. Ed, the Grabster grabanowski wrote this article. Actually, this one was written by Uned Grabanowski, if you ask me. Why did you say that? Because it wasn't, like, five times as long as it should have been. No, I can't remember who calls himself that for every treehouse of horror. But there's somebody named Ed, and they call themselves Uned, so I thought that was probably I'm really surprised he didn't actually get that as his byline for this one. That's a nice Easter egg there, my friend. Yeah, and then we did just so much supplementary information. It's sort of ridiculous. Yes, but this is, like, a special request from us, wasn't it? Oh, yeah. We said, Go forth, grabster and write the well. Write the oh, okay. Write the well. There are two E's in that V. Yeah. I should have noticed by the flourish of your hand what you were saying. All right, so let's go back to Simpson's creator, one Mr. Matt Graining, and we have actually met him, and we will talk about that in a little bit. Yeah, we will. Life highlight, for sure. But he had a comic strip called life in hell. And I think the original conceit to pitch to producer james l. Brooks in was a cartoon version of that. Ed writes in here. He thought it would be a failure, but I read that he wasn't too keen on signing away sort of the thing he had worked on all his life. So he changed his mind at the last minute and thought of the simpsons. That's awesome. The second one sounds much more like matt graining for sure. Yeah. And he had no idea that would make him a super rich gazillionaire either. But if you know that story, the fact that the simpsons started out on tracy oleman makes sense, because james brooks, who himself is a pretty bona fide cool guy. Right. He created the Mary Tyler Moore Show. He wrote and directed terms of endearment. Yeah. He produced bottle rocket. Yes. You could say he has an eye for amazing things, for sure. So he had come across this life in hell strip and wanted to basically turn it into animated shorts for the Tracy oleman show. But then graining swapped it out at the pitch meeting and said, let's do this instead. But I think either way, he came up with the characters and the idea fairly on the fly. Right? Yeah. Obviously it wasn't like while he was waiting outside of the pitch meeting, but what he came up with. And if you haven't seen the simpsons, maybe you should go watch an episode or two, crawl out from under the rock that you live under and go watch one. But obviously we should at least say what it is. And it is sort of a traditional sitcom about and it follows the sitcom conventions in many ways, of a family living together under a roof who encounter fun hijinks along the way. Yeah. And that's kind of the subtext for the whole or the pretext, I should say, for the whole series. Right? Yes, it's a sitcom. It's a family sitcom. But there's a couple of big differences with it. Right. It's animated, which is huge because it became in a primetime animated series, and it was the first one since, I think, 1974, where wait till your father gets home went off the air. Did you ever see that show? No. It was like a proto family guy, basically interesting. From the early seventy s, and it was actually super entertaining. And then before that, of course, there was the flintstones, but those were like the two big primetime animated series before the simpsons. But there's a good 30 something year low in between those in the simpsons. So that was a big difference in and of itself. Well, it's easy to take for granted now with the advent of cartoon network and adult swim and family guy and futurama, which also from graining. Yeah. I mean, there's just an explosion of animation. Right? Yeah. You've got starting back with beavis and butthead that was a descendant of the simpsons. And then, of course, you've got king of the hill, south park. Today you've got rick and morty. Have you seen rick and morty? I haven't yet. I'm remiss it is everyone who said it's the greatest? It is. It's the greatest. And, man, it's one of those. It's under the same thing that the simpsons was initially taken for, where there's a lot of belching. So people are like, this is low brown. It's like, no, look past it to what they're actually doing. It's insanely smart and really entertaining, too. It's laugh out loud funny in a lot of parts. I think we've kind of proven that we can be smart and still make fart jokes. Sure. And rick and morty is doing the same thing. And by the way, they listen to us, right? Rick and morty? Yeah. Remember they sent us that science book and it has them. That was the rick and morty people. No way. Yeah. So thanks again for that, guys. That's a treasured possession. Oh, well, I'm definitely watching now all the adult, quote unquote cartoons that we see, but it was revolutionary at the time. I mean, flintstones aside, like you said, it'd been a long time, and it quite literally leveled the TV industry because it was such a smash hit right out of the gate. That's right. Yeah, I know. It was huge, right? And a lot of things came together for it. The fact that james l. Brooks got in touch with mcgraining, it was a bit of a fluke because he got in touch with them for a different reason, but also because it was a show on fox, and fox was just starting out as a network, and they were looking to make ways. So at the time, you had basically so here's what the simpsons were up against in 1989, family sitcom wise. You ready for this? Yes. My two dads, major dad, mr. Belvedere, who's the boss, hogan family, family matters, growing pains, the cosby show, full house. And that was what family sitcoms or TV sitcoms in general were at the time. And you had roseanne. Roseanne had been on for a couple of years already, and it had shaken things up. Yeah, that pushed the envelope a bit. For sure. For sure. But for the most part, america was this clean and tidy wholesome place where everything was just peachy keen, and all the problems that a family encountered were about as superficial as you could possibly come across. And this is the other big thing about the simpsons, and it actually went really well, at least superficially, with married with children, which was that family wholesome sitcom spun onto a very gritty, dirty underbelly. Right. Yeah. The simpsons was initially compared to that same kind of thing because they were both on fox and they both kind of took the family sitcom and turned it on its head. But it took a minute, but not too long for people to start noticing. Oh, wait, actually, this is really subversive satire. And that was the big thing that I think initially gave the simpsons it's base to keep going for 30 seasons. Yeah, I mean, I remember when fox first came out, and it was like, there's a fourth TV channel. I know, it's a big deal. It was a big deal. And their thing from the beginning was, we're going to be edgy. We're going to be different. This is not your mom and dad's TV. Right, and like you said, mary with children and the simpsons firmly put them on a different track. And it was funny when you were just going through all shows, they were no more edgy since TV's inception. It might as well have been, well, maybe a little more edgy than, like, beaver cleaver and ozzy and harriet, but not too far off for the most part. TV was kind of the same for decades when it came to family sitcoms. Yeah. So the simpsons was just this is not overstating it. It was a cultural revolution in every way. It definitely was. And it took up like this already kind of nascent revolution from roseanne and from married with children, but it was different, man. It was its own thing and still is today. Oh, yeah. And again, like you were saying, it's easy to look back and be like, well, yeah, I mean, animated, really smart, subversive satirical shows. A dime a dozen is a weird way to put it, but it's true. They're all over the place now. That's because the simpsons came along. It's as simple as that. Yeah. So the early episodes in the first couple of seasons, bart simpson was sort of the star of the show as far as pop culture goes. I mean, he was front and center. He was on every t shirt, every kid was saying, eat my shorts. Every kid was talking back to their teachers more, and it created quite a ruckus in schools. I know that some of the t shirts were banned in certain school districts. Yeah, the underachiever and proud of it, man. That one was banned. And I think I'm Bart Simpson. Who the hell are you? Yes, but it wasn't long before it became pretty clear that it was an ensemble show, for one, and sort of homer's show, let's be honest. Yeah, it ultimately ended up that way in large part. He became the central character, didn't he? Yeah, I would say easily, but then we'll go through a lot of these characters, if not all of them, because we don't have time to read, like 500 people's names. Right, but it ended up being like a memorial or something. I know, but the simpsons side characters and the guest characters have become just as beloved as the family. Of course, homer and marge and lisa and bart and little maggie. Absolutely. You want to take our first break? Yeah, we're so excited, let's go ahead and take a break real quick and calm down. You do it all without breaking a sweat, and you do it all in style. That's why Infinity fully reimagined the QX 60 to help you take on everything with ease. A luxury SUV as functional as it is stylish, as versatile as it is serene. Available features like a panoramic moonroof, ample cargo space, and massaging front seats. Introducing the allnew 2022 Infinity QX 60, designed to help you take on life in style. Visit infinityusa.com to learn more. Now, with extremely limited availability, contact your local retailer for inventory information. It's 2022. When things look different, like doctors visits, for example, sometimes you don't have to go into a doctor's office to be treated for nonemergency situations like a sinus, infection or allergy. And that's why teladoc gives you the chance to connect with board certified physicians right from your home via phone or video. That's right. Doctors are standing by 24/7, so you can schedule a visit according to your schedule. You can see for yourself why teledoc is ranked number one by JD. Power and telehealth satisfaction with direct to consumer providers. Teledoc is available through most major health plans and many employers. But even if you're not covered by insurance, everyone has access to use telecock. That's right. If you want to check it out, download the app today or visit teletoc. comStuff to register or schedule a visit today. That's teladoc.com stuff. For JDPower 2021 award information, visit JDPower. comAWARDS. All right, we're back. Chuck. So the earliest clips of The Simpsons were animated by a different studio than they use now and have used for many years. It's called Clasky, C-S-U-P-O. I'm not sure how they pronounced it, but they were all, of course, based on Matt granny's original sketches that had these yellow skinned characters, very bright primary color palette. Right. And it became a little more refined over the years, as we said. But it never approached a slick looking animation by any means. No. The earliest stuff, definitely not. And they were with I think it's classy zoopo. I'm not sure. But they were with them for two years, and despite this stuff being really rough and kind of hard to watch, even if you look at it now, they gave the Simpsons, like, their yellow skin, mars's blue hair, and supposedly matt greening. When he saw the yellow skin tone palette for the Simpsons skin colors, he was like, that is perfect. Like when somebody is clicking through the channels real quick, their eye is going to catch that and they're going to stop because the symptoms are on and they're going to watch it. So apparently that's where the yellow came from. It was kind of a fluke, but they went with it just because it was so catchy. It's a great idea, but then after, I think, two years, they moved over to something called film Roman or film roman. I've never heard it actually said out loud, but they were the ones who, starting in season two or three, really gave the simpsons defined look that stayed for years and years and years. Yes, I remember homer's voice early on sounded a little bit different, too. Yeah, same guy. It was dan castle and just was not the same homer's voice that we know and love today. No, it was much gruffer. Plus his dialogue, too is way more I mean, it really was much more about bart. And homer was way angrier, for sure. And he strangled bart at the drop of a hat. He did that a lot. That was like a go to gag. So the show is still really smart compared to who's the boss? Yeah, but compared to later seasons of the simpsons, it was really just rough by comparison. For sure. Don't knock who's the boss too much, though. I mean, it's fine show, but man, it wasn't smart satire. You put a who's the boss episode up against like a season seven episode of the simpsons. Who's the boss is not going to win that one. Yeah, they're not the boss. I mean, like, even tony danza will tell you that. So let's talk a little bit about the main cast and the crew in those early years. Of course, matt graining was around from the beginning, and james l. Brooks, of course. Then there was a man, the dearly departed sam simon, who was an EP on the show from the early days. And the great al jean has been the showrunner since the 13th season, but I'm pretty sure he was around before that. Right. I didn't exactly look at when he joined up. I believe he was an early producer as well. Okay. But eventually rose to showrunner. Bill oakley, josh weinstein, and mike scully ran the show previous to that during the first twelve seasons. We cannot list all the writers. It would be impossible. No, but some made some pretty huge contributions. Yeah. Like george meyer and john schwarzelder are generally given credit to kind of defining who these characters were from the early days. Yeah. The worldview, the jokes they would make, the fact that and this is another huge thing that we take for granted today that the simpsons really established was referential humor, like making fun of film literature, trends, whatever, not necessarily part of the plot, but just part of a joke, maybe, or something like that. Or an additional little layer just to make the whole idea that was being put across that much more palatable. They really kind of blew that out. And that was thanks to the early brain trust. You just mentioned the people who established the show for what it was. Yeah, it was a blueprint. And everyone that came along afterward sort of had their show bible thanks to these people. Yes. If you look up show bible, there's one episode that just screws up any google search for that. There was a Simpsons Bible stories episode, which was a stinker anyway, but it sucks because now you can't find any examples of this show Bible. It must exist somewhere. I don't know if you can find that online. You can find style guide examples online, though. Yeah, for sure. And of course, we got to mention Conan O'Brien because he very famously worked for a couple of years on The Simpsons. I think it's credited with four or five episodes, including one of the all time classics, marge versus the Monorail, which Conan still talks about, that being one of his great career achievements, is writing that episode. I can imagine, because not only was a great episode, but you got to write and then Phil Hartman brought your stuff to life. Like that was a big one. All right, well, speaking of Phil Hartman, let's start talking about the cast, okay? Because this is going to take a little while. Are you ready? Yeah. So there's hundreds of characters in the Simpsons universe, but really a lot of them, a lot of them boil down to the voices of just six people. So two of them focus almost exclusively on just one character each. Julie Kavner does Marge, but then she also obviously does Marge's sisters, Patty and Selma and her mom Jacqueline in one episode. Yeah, the Bouviers. Yeah. And then Yearly Smith does just Lisa for the show. Yeah. And she's the only one that does a single voice. Dan Castellonetta obviously does. Homer. He also does Grandpa Abe. It's hard to not laugh just thinking of each one of these characters. I know. I kept laughing out loud researching this stuff. At the very least, chuckling to myself, yeah. Strickland in the office today was like, I got to ask, what the heck is going on over there? It's like, we're doing an episode and Simpsons, leave me alone. He was like, what? Caslina also does Barney Gumble, crusty the Clown, crowns keeper Willie, mayor Quimby man, so great. Hans moleman sideshow Mel itchy koto skill Poochy the Squeaky Voice team mr. Burns lawyer Krusty's monkey mr. Teeny and he did. Bill Clinton. Great Bill Clinton, too. Yeah. Real no fooling pig. What about Nancy Cartwright? The great Nancy Cartwright. So she does Bart. That's what she's best known for. But she does some other voices of some other pre pubescent characters, like Ralph Wiggum, one of the great all time voices ever, great todd Flanders, great. Nelson Muntz has a great one. Kierany the bald headed or shaved headed bully. And Database? Don't know who Database was. I think Database is more recent. And this is probably where I should say that I haven't seen the Simpsons in a few years. I dabbled a little bit a couple of years ago, and I was like, this is not bad. And then it was kind of hit or miss, definitely compared to years ago. But I'm not going to hate on anything that's going on today, it's still the simpsons. Of course, the great hank is area one of the fantastic additional cast members. Well, I say additional because he's not one of the simpsons, but he's a primary cast member. Sure. He voices apu. Do you want to try and say apu's last name? Apu nahasapima Petalon. And by the way, we should mention, apu is taking a lot of heat in recent years, for the very least, being an ethnic stereotype, and some say straight up racist. And there is a documentary airing, I believe, on true TV next month called the problem with apu from a comedian. I really love harry condobolu, and you should watch it and sort of think of apu a little bit through hari's lens or the lens of an indian person. Well, you know, this is not the first time that the simpsons have been called the task for offending a group. Sure. An entire group or race or country. It's definitely happened over the course of the 30 seasons that have been going on. Sometimes they apologize, sometimes they acknowledge it, other times they're just like, whatever. Now for sure. So going on with hankins area, besides the poo mosislak, one of the great characters, chief wiggum, I mean, these are all great comic book guy who, by the way, has a real name, jeff albertson. Yeah. Never knew that. I can't remember where that one came from, but yeah, carl a beloved, beloved friend of homers from the bar, dr. Nick hi frozen body. Remember, he went to the tijuana upstairs medical clinic. That's where he graduated from. Captain McAllister, superintendent chalmers. And of course, when I think of chalmers, all I can think of is I can't remember the episode title, but the one with skinner and the steamed hands, I think that was like the 22 episodes about springfield one. Oh, man, that's such a great 122 short films. I was never into that one. I loved it, and I had no idea. But apparently it's a reference to there was a documentary or it was a movie. Okay, a movie. 22 short films about glenn gould. Yeah, I love that movie. Okay. I've never even heard of it. Yeah. And this raises a really good point that I'd like to make here. Chuck, if you'll indulge me for a second. Sure. One of the things that the simpsons did for me, and I suspected for a lot of other people, is that it pointed me in the direction of culture. Oh, yeah, it cultured me. It incultrated me. I'm not sure what the word is the simpsons never taught me, but just the little signposts that they point to through the references they make that you don't get, but then you find out about later what they are actually talking about. It might lead you to go see that movie or read that book or just have a better understanding of the world than you did before it's. Like, backwards reference. Yeah. I mean, some of them are so subtle, too. There isn't a human alive that picks up on all the culture references that The Simpsons throws out week to week. Right. Whether it's something like you were just talking about or whether it's just simply in a show title. Don't have to live like a referee. Little things like that just nuggets all over the place. Continuing of Mrs. Area, Professor Frank Cletus with slack Jaws, who will get to a little bit more some of his children's names. We have some good stuff coming up. I love Cleo. Get off the dang roof. Bumblebee, man. Snake. Kirk Van Houten. Man, that divorce episode was one of the best. Yeah. Can I borrow a feeling? Dredrik. Tatum and Pyro, also known as Chase. That was from that episode, too, I think. Yeah. Wasn't that the American Gladiator? That Mill house's mom dates. Yeah, I forgot about that. Well, that's it, I think. These may not be complete lists from Harry Sheer. No, I'm sorry. From Hank's area. But Harry Sheer's next. Do you want to tackle some of these? He does. Mr. Burns and Mr. Smithers. Yes. That's great. To basically take those two halves of a hole and be able to fill them out like that. Yeah. And by the way, Burns was in the very first episode, and Smithers is heard over the intercom, but not seen in that episode. One, that's a bit of trivia, but he can put in their pipe and smoke. Ned Flanders. Principal Skinner. Reverend Lovejoy. Great doctor. Hibert. That laugh. He's got a laugh that almost rivals yours in awesomeness. Kent Brockman. Great scratchy. I don't know who does itchy. Do you? I don't know. I kind of figured he did both. You'd think so, but yeah. Somebody will write in to let us know. Auto, the bus driver. Auto, man. Jasper Abe's friend with a long beard. I can't film a beard. Lenny, Homer and Carl's other friend. Yeah. Anybody else? Yeah. Wolf Castle and McBaine. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. And here's another little tidbit I can't even wait on from our Easter egg section later on is apparently, if you take out all the Wolf Castle pieces throughout the years, there's a little coherent story that you can actually follow. That is masterful. Yeah. And I'm sure someone has pulled that. I didn't get a chance to watch, but that's pretty amazing. Herman. George Bush. Judge Snyder. Eddie Ranier. Those are some of the other Sheer characters. Do you remember who Eddie Ranier was? No, I don't know. We got some digging to do, man. Some digging. We have to mention the great Pamela Hayden. She does. Mill House. Rod Flanders. Janie Powell. Jimbo Jones. Malibu stacy and Sarah Wiggum. And a couple of dearly departed cast members. Occasional cast members. Marcia Wallace. The great Marcia Wallace from the Bob New Heart show passed away in 2013. She was Mrs. Kobato. I mean, what a beloved character Kerbapo was in so many ways. She was. They describe her in this article as sarcastic and sexy. That whole subplot that went through multiple episodes where she was dating Seymour Skinner and then later on, Mary's Ned Flanders. No one saw that coming. Yeah. But the fact that this show could take steps like that and then would commit itself to continuing it as long as could be and keeping it up, you know what I mean? Rather than just being like, oh, forget about that. It doesn't matter. That was another hallmark of the show as well, that it had the chops to make big leaps like that and then keep it going without seeming tried or tired or anything. Absolutely. Marshall Wallace won an Emmy in 1992 for her voice work, and they paid tribute to her in the episode Four Regrettings in a Funeral. Bart's chalkboard gag at the beginning said, we'll really miss you, Mrs. Kay. So sad. And the man who grew too much, Ned Flanders, wears a black armband. Tamarind Edna, who, of course, took the place of his departed wife, Maud Flanders. Yeah, he's a widower twice over. Yes. And that one where Maud died, that was really just a great episode. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing about The Simpsons, is, as silly as it was, they managed to pull the heartstrings every now and then. They didn't do too much of it, but it was always just well timed, for sure. And they could take on something like death and grief and do it with heart, but also without making a very special episode of the yeah, it always felt like The Simpsons. Yeah, exactly. And, of course, Phil Hartman, who left us way too soon, he did a couple of classic, classic characters in Lionel Huts and Troy McClure. Yeah. And I had to get a few of my favorite Troy McClure lines in here. And he was very famous, if you don't know The Simpsons, troy McClure was former semi famous actor who would pop up every now and then in kind of like school films and stuff like that. Sure. Or an infomercial. Yeah. He was just like a former pretty boy actor, basically. Yeah. And his running gag was Troy McClure. And you might remember me right? So here's a few of my favorites. I'm Troy McClure. You might remember me from some self help videos. Is smoke yourself thin and get confident. Stupid. Here's another one. You might remember me from such drivers edge films as Alice's Adventures Through the Windshield Glass and the decapitation of Larry Leadfoot. And then this one. You may remember me from such educational films as Two Minus Three Equals Negative Fun and Firecrackers the Silent Killer. So good. And Attorney Wildma Hutz was just great, too. That was good. And then which one did he date? He dated Patty or Selma. I can't remember which one. I'm mortified. Well, they're so interchangeable to me. Well, they are one of them came out as gay, actually. Right. In one of the recent seasons. So it's not that one. Right. I think it was Selma. No, it would have been Patty, because Patty is the one who was engaged to Principal Skinner. Oh, that's right. So I guess he was dating Patty. I just remember in that episode when he went out with her one night and then showed up the next day and said, you might remember me from certain dates as last night. Right. My favorite lines from that episode is they're in, like, a nice restaurant, and Patty lights up a cigarette and everybody's like, oh, my gosh, she's smoking. Smoking. Somebody goes, Waiter, I ordered a zima, not emphysema. What a great line, man. Yeah. So, guest stars. Over the years, there have been some very beloved people playing other people and then many people playing themselves. And I made a list of my favorite people playing other people. Martin Sheen played Sergeant Seymour Skinner aka. The real Seymour Skinner. Oh, that was Martin Sheen, wasn't it? Yeah. Okay. The great Albert Brooks played Hank scorpio. Nice. Yeah, that was a great character. Glenn Close played Homer's mom. That was so sweet. Just such a great episode, that one. And I think also the one where he goes and tries to find what his middle the J stands for his middle name. Yeah, I don't know if she was in that, but she's like an off camera character because he meets, like, some of her old friends from back when he was born. Such a sweet episode. And then they all end up on Peyote, I think, in true Simpsons fashion. Yeah. Patrick Stewart played number one in the stone cutters episode. Meryl street played Jessica Lovejoy. Bart's love interest. Brief love interest. The late, great Johnny Cash played homer. Spirit Coyote. Yeah. Remember that? Sure. Remember Rodney Dangerfield as Larry Burns. Yeah. I get no esteem. Never god, either. Ron Taylor played Bleeding Gums murphy Lisa's sort of mentor on the saxophone, who played him. Got him. Ron Taylor. Okay. Give him his due. And Artie Ziff was played by John Lovitt. Sure. And John Lovitt played Jay Sherman, the critic, in one of the more hated episodes of all time. Oh, really? Yeah, the crossover episode where they throw a film festival in Springfield and Jay Sherman shows up to lead the jury for the film festival. I don't think I saw that one. Well, it was basically a vehicle to introduce America to the critic, which was now going to be on Fox after The Simpsons. And did you ever see that show, The Critic? Yeah, I saw that. It was a little small, but, I mean, it had its charms here, there. It wasn't like, the worst thing anyone's ever put on TV. It certainly wasn't Simpson's caliber. But supposedly Matt Graining was so upset about this that he made them take his name off of the opening credits on the TV screen. He was that mad about this crossover that had been, like, shoved down his throat by Fox executives, as the legend goes. Good for him. Sure. And then they've had some legends that played themselves before Bob Hope passed away. He was on the show. Yeah, that's good. Ernest Borgnan. Robert Goulay. Steve Allen. Robert Goulay swings. He's doing the treehouse at Bart's treehouse. He's doing a show. I don't know how he got booked there. I think Nelson maybe was his agent. And he's swinging his microphone and the quarters are so close in the tree house. He smacks, like, I think, Mill House's glasses right off his face, like, oh, sorry, kid. I think there have been more than like 70 musicians and bands through the years. They've always loved featuring bands. So at the time, all the living Beatles before George Harrison passed and the Ramones and the who and Metallica and RM and U two and arrowsmith tom Petty. The late, great Tom Petty. Lenny Kravitz's. Like, the list goes on and on. But they've always had great musical guests. And that you two episode, that was the garbage man episode, right? I think so. One of the great this is a great illustration of just a throwaway joke on The Simpsons that just made it that much smarter, that show. Right? So, like, Homer is trying to sneak backstage, so he dresses up like an Irish potato delivery man. Like, there is such a thing, right? Yeah. So the joke is that this is what Homer thinks is going to get them backstage. But then the added bonus to the joke is that it actually works. Like, when he shows up, the security guards like, where in the devil have you been? They've been waiting for the guy who delivers raw potatoes backstage at a YouTube concert. That's just a thing, right? I love that show so much. And finally, as far as guest voices, we would be remiss without mentioning the great Kelsey Grammar sideshow Bob, a prominent, prominent character. And then they ended up getting David Hyde Pierce to play Cecil, his brother, and then John Mahoney, all from Frazier to play his father, Dr. Robert to Willaker. Nice. So good. So good, Chuck. All right, let's take another break and we're going to come back and talk a little bit about these episodes and how they are put together. 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You can see for yourself why teladoc is ranked number one by JD. Power and telehealth satisfaction with direct to consumer providers. Teedock is available through most major health plans and many employers. But even if you're not covered by insurance, everyone has access to use teletoc. That's right. If you want to check it out, download the app today or visit teladoc. comStuff to register or schedule a visit today. That's teladoc.com stuff. For JD. Power 2021 award information, visit JDPower. comAWARDS. Okay, chuck, we're back, and you promised that we were going to talk more about the simpsons, so go. All right, well, we should talk a little bit about I mean, we can sit here and quote lines all day long. No, I know. I hope this isn't getting annoying for anybody. Hopefully everybody's having as much fun as we are. No, I mean, this was bound to get super wonky. Sure. But we should talk a little bit technically about how the show is made. So here's how it starts and the graphs. Who did a good job of kind of breaking this down, I think. Yeah. And also I want to give a shout out to an article on the verge called how simpsons episode is made. It goes into even greater detail. It's nuts what they do. All right, so like most shows, or I would say probably every show, it begins in the writers room. Writers going to pitch ideas to each other and the producers an episode will get a green light, and then a single rider, usually sometimes they work in pairs, will go off and create a draft in a couple of weeks. Yeah, but that is not the end of the writing process. No, no, no. Supposedly, the writing process is one of the most shape shifting parts of the entire process of making an episode. There's a lot of people poking at it. You got the show runner who in this capacity, serves as the script editor and the headwriter. You've got the actual writers, you've got the writing team, you've got the writing assistance, you've got producers who are thinking about it. You've got all these people who are thinking of the script and rewriting it and editing it that supposedly a script goes through rewrites for like, four to six weeks or something like that. Yeah. And like most shows operate this way, there's a lot especially comedy. There's a lot of rewriting that goes on to just I mean, they'll come down and debate a word for a couple of hours to make sure they're getting the funniest stuff they can get right, then what comes next is the table read. And brother, you and I got really lucky. When was this? Four or five years ago. I think it was 2013 or 14. So here's how it went down. We had a listener named jesse ritas, and say she didn't work for the simpsons, but she was in somehow. I think she had a friend she was friends, I think, with tom gamble, the producer. One of the producers of the simpsons. Yeah. And she said, dudes, whenever you want to come out to la. And go to a table read. And then we were basically at the airport about an hour later, so it went down. Now, we had a trip booked for some reason or another, and we went out there, and we met at the fox lot and the building little bungalow outside the simpsons, first of all, is just so exciting, because they have topiaries of simpsons characters. Yeah, that would be great in and of itself. And then the table read is a bit of a public thing. Like, it's not 100 people, but they were probably, besides the cast and writing staff, an additional, what, 25 people in there? Like tourists like us? Yes, I would say something like that. Like, friends, family members, just special invites. The ambassador from spain. Just people were there, and they were like, you shut up, all of you. Don't make a sound. Turn off your cell phones. Will kill your whole family if you say anything, because this is serious business. Yes. So the people who work on the show are sitting in this big, huge, long conference table, and then the room is lined all along the outside on four walls with chairs for people to just sit there quietly and sit at the altar in reverence of what they're about to see. The one we were there was a script read for the episode that became the wreck of the relationship. Right. I think nick offerman guest starred in it as a sea captain, but basically, bart and homer go off on this father's son bonding tour, like aboard a ship. And the b subs plot was that while they were gone, marge had to pick homer's fantasy football team, and she decided that she should pick all place kickers. And it turns out that she was right. She ended up winning. But in between picking them and not knowing what she was doing, and winning the whole thing, she ends up, like, trash talking with mo and lenny and carl. And it's a pretty good b subplot, actually. Yeah. And I would love to say that all of the voice actors are in the room together. That is not the case, because everyone is busy and doing other stuff, and they've got it down to a science now, so they don't have to rub elbows, but they're calling in on the phone, and they're doing the voices and stuff, either via phone or in person. And Matt Graining was there, though. Dan Castleanetta was there in the room. Julie Cavanaugh was there. Julie Caviar was there. Beardley Smith. Yes. Rudely Smith and Pamela Hayden was there. But we got no Zaria or shearer. Right. But they were on the phone. So, like, we're sitting there listening to them do the voices. Yeah. So they basically read through the script. They'll stop every now and then and make suggestions or something on a different line reading. And the writers and producers are all furiously scribbling and making notes and stuff like that. And then afterwards they finish it up and a couple of six year olds sheepishly grab our scripts that we get to take with us because everyone gets a script to read along at Matt Graining. And it was surreal. Yeah. What was I think even more surreal was that he was super nice. The nicest dude you could imagine. He was really nice. Like Dan Castle in theta didn't ever look up. Yummy was there. And she took a picture of me with Dan Castle lynetta. And I'm saying, they're giving a thumbs up. And he's, like, looking down, like, signing my script. Yeah. It's not like he wasn't a nice guy, but he just wasn't quite as personable in person as Matt Grainy. But I think, like, Matt Grainy stood up and shook hands and was like, hey, great to meet you. And he didn't know who I was from Adam. He was just a surprisingly friendly guy. Yeah. And I remember telling him that you mean it was just laughing the whole time? She was like, you guys are just hysterical. Yeah, we really were like a couple of six year olds. I was surprised that both of us actually just how quickly we were like kids. Yeah. I don't get super star struck anymore. And this one just had me like I was super, super nervous. But I remember I think I told him, Mr. Granny, that we have a podcast and we talk about The Simpsons so much, it's almost like an additional character on our show. And he asked what the name of it was, wrote it down, stuff You Should Know on his script. And then ate that piece of paper in front of you. And then he signed our script and he scribbled out a quick drawing. He drew Bart on my script. I got homer. And it says, you're pal. Matt Graining. Yeah. So nice, man. That script is like, under plexiglass, under lock and key. Train Momo to kill anybody who comes anywhere near it. It's just like a prize possession now. Oh, yeah, for sure. We got Dan Castle and Eddie to sign it, julie Cabinet to sign it. And I think those are the only three autographs I got. But it was neat. So to us, we were just losing our minds. It was so amazing to them. It was straight up work, right? This is work to them. And it was nice. They're fine. Like seeing people that they're friends with who they inverted or whatever. But I read an interview with Al Jean, and Al Jean said that he hates bull reads more than anything. Really? Because it is real work. But it's in this weird kind of in between state, like letting people come watch. Yeah. I wonder whose idea that was. I don't know. Apparently a custom that they've been keeping up this whole time, despite, at the very least, one of the high powered executives in charge of the show hating it. Interesting. Yeah. I think there's lots of distractions and stuff like that, but apparently they muddle through every Thursday. Yeah. And I just can't say enough. This is not hyperbole. It is a genuine all time life highlight. It was just amazing. Agreed, Chuck. All right, so I think we reached the end of part one of episode 1000. Technically, episode 999, right? That's a cliffhanger, too. It is, man. I'm pretty psyched. This is not planned, Chuck. This is a genuine cliffhanger. Yeah. Right in the middle of the production process, people are going to be like, I have to know how they make these shows. Well, just cool out, everybody. Cool out. You can wait until Thursday, right? Yes. For our actual official episode 1000. And in the meantime, you can get in touch with us on Twitter. I'm at Josh Clark and the official handle is Syscape podcast. Charles. Chuck is@facebook.com Charleswchuckbryant. I'm on there somewhere. You can try to find me. And then there's also an official stuffyshotknow one on Facebook too. You can send us all an email, including Jerry, to stuffpodcast at how. Stefworks.com. And as always, hang out with us at our home on the web, STUFFYou. Know.com 1000. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseworks.com. 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The Time Nazis Invaded Florida | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/the-time-nazis-invaded-florida | During World War II, Nazis invaded the United States with saboteurs bent on fomenting chaos. Three times. | During World War II, Nazis invaded the United States with saboteurs bent on fomenting chaos. Three times. | Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2015, tm_mon=7, tm_mday=16, tm_hour=13, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=197, tm_isdst=0) | 54287964 | audio/mpeg | "This July, don't miss an entire summer of surprises on Disney Plus with Disney's High School Musical, the Musical, the Series season three Zombies, three Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness and the wonderful summer of Mickey Mouse. Plus new episodes of Marvel Studios, ms. Marvel and National Geographics. America the Beautiful. From the award winning producers of Planet Earth, Frozen Planet and the Disney Nature Films, america the Beautiful takes viewers on a tour of the most spectacular and visually arresting regions of our great nation. All these and more streaming this month on Disney Plus. Summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good it's criminal. Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Ercart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this chart topping series will have you hooked before you know it. Listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clarke. There's charles W, Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there. This is stuff you should know. So huge thanks right off the bat to everyone who came out for our Northeast Plus one summer tour. Yes. It was a pretty big success. Yeah, big thanks. Boston and New York and Philadelphia and Durham and Washington, DC. And look for us this fall, like early October in the Midwest. The upper Midwest. Don't get excited yet. St. Louis. Not yet, no. But hopefully we're targeting Detroit because, boy, we're longer due for Detroit. Yeah. I don't know how we're going to be received in Detroit. You're going to love us. Okay. I hope so. I think we're looking at Chicago, Detroit, maybe Cleveland. Minneapolis. Minneapolis. Milwaukee. Milwaukee or Madison. We're not quite sure yet. So maybe some advice Wisconsinites, and then everyone in each city will just say, come here because I don't feel like driving a few hours. Yeah. Thanks for the support and look for us this fall. And did you think square space? Yeah. Did you think how stuff works? Yeah. Did you thank Jerry for the moral support? Sure. I think Jerry everyday. Nice. It's part of my wake up routine. Yes. I'm looking forward to going back on tour. It's fun. It is. Okay, you ready for this? I'm ready. We're going to channel our stuff you missed in history class. Yeah. I'm not sure if they've done this or not. Are you? I don't know. So, Chuck, I don't know if you know this one because it didn't come up in this article, but back in World War II, did you know that the Japanese actually carried out bombing campaigns? Two of them in Oregon. I didn't know that. Oh, you did? I'm a bit of a buff. Isn't that insane? Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of forgotten history or little known history that you read it and thank God for the Internet, because someone will post an article and say, I bet you never knew this. And then you're like what? Yes. That's pretty much the function of the Internet. That's what you just described. Sure. So this one, I think I learned about this from unsurprisingly Uncle John's bathroom reader years and years and years ago. Oh, yeah. But definitely not in this kind of detail. It turns out that in World War II, in 1942, I believe in Armagenset, New York, which is on Long Island in Ponte Vedra beach, Florida, which is just south of Jacksonville, nazi Saboteurs landed. They invaded America. Yeah. Pretty remarkable. It really is. What's even more remarkable is how badly their operations went. Yeah. What's remarkable is well, not remarkable, thankfully, they chose a bunch of dopes. Half hearted dopes. I don't know. If they didn't do their research, we'll get into how they picked these schmoes. Yes, but it didn't go so well. It really did. But if they had to pick some, like the right guys, it might have been a whole different story. Oh, yeah, totally. In this war, and the FBI, especially J. Edgar Hoover, really lucked out that these guys were half hearted dope. Well, not if you ask him, no. He might as well have worn a cape around the office. Yeah, well, he may have. And a little else. So back in World War II, even before World War II or before the US. Entered the Second World War, hitler had this great fantasy of sending New York City up in flames, like he really wanted to just destroy New York. And Verna von Braun, the guy who helped get America to the moon, was working on a rocket program that could strike the United States from Europe. That was one thing never fully realized, because the war came to an end before they could develop the right kind of missile. But they were working on it, and they were also working on long range bombers. They could fly out of Europe all the way to America's East Coast and bomb. Yeah. Apparently Hipoa used to literally sit around and watch film footage of cities burning and fantasize about New York City. Crazy. Yeah. Well, he was pretty crazy, sure. But he finally realized that if he was going to get New York, the best, most efficient, most at hand way to do that was to send Saboteurs into the United States to infiltrate and do New York themselves. That's right. Terrorists. Essentially. Well, yeah. The only thing that kept them from being considered full fledged to straight up terrorists is because we were formally at war with this country. So they were considered officially spies and unofficially Saboteurs. Yes. Should we shout out the articles here? Yes, let's. Right off the bat. Well, I read a few. I read one on damned interesting, which is good. There was one you sent called world War II. German Saboteurs invade America in 1942. Yeah. That was on history net. History Net, yeah. I feel like there was one more there was a Der Spiegel article. Oh yeah. Next one called Operation Pastorius Hitler's Unfulfilled Dream of a New York and Flames. Poor Hitler. I know his dreams failed. So World War II hadn't been raging for long for the US. When this happened. It was right after Poll Harbor was bombed and Hitler said, you know what? They think they're over there. They're a long way from us, so they probably feel pretty safe. So let me undermine that and let me divide this plan. And it was originally going to be a wave of Saboteurs. Like every four to six weeks they were going to be sending in small teams of terroristspies to wreak havoc on the US. And thankfully it didn't work out that way. So it was kind of scrapped. Yeah. The OPF, I think that's how you pronounce it. You're the one who knows German Abvair, is that right? Yes. So that was basically the sabotage unit of the German Military Intelligence Corps. And these guys had kind of perfected their craft with explosives and terrorism and all that jazz in European theaters already in the war. And so they set up a school, a terrorist school, which supposedly these guys were trained in like as well as explosives and stuff like that. And I'll bet it looked a lot like Enter the Dragon in there, but with Germans. Yeah. I wonder if they were trained in Kung fu school on an island somewhere, but this is in the woods. I wonder if they're in the Black Forest, perhaps. Yeah. I wonder if they were trained in peckle and movie watching and car buying. I think they just came Nashville and rolling over and singing like a canary. So the ABFER selected a man. His name was Walter Cap. Or is that Cape? It'd be vaulted cop who was a pudgy bull necked man as described in the history of that article. And the reason that they selected him to head up this operation, which Cap came to nickname is Operation Pastorius, which is named after Francis Daniel Pastorius, one of the early German immigrants to the United States who arrived in Philadelphia in 1683. The reason they selected Cap for this operation was because he had lived in America for twelve years already. So he understood America, how it functioned, what targets should be struck, that kind of stuff. Sure. And they said, select your teams. Yeah. And so he put a donkey on the wall and got a tail with a little pin on it. Right. Now, what he did was he did some research and he went through the records of something called the Austlin Institute and they were big on getting Germans back to Germany. Right. Ones that had emigrated to the United States all over the world. Yeah. Okay, so specifically, the ones he was looking for, ones who had been in the United States yes. In this case. And a lot of these people have been in what was called the Booned, or is it the Bond? I would say it's a boomed the American bound, which is like, basically the Nazi sympathizers in the United States. Right. And they would set up little shops all over the country. Yeah. And they would speak out against Franklin Roosevelt or speak in favor of fascism. And apparently they managed to get 20,000 people at a rally at Madison Square Garden once by holding a Knicks game. Pretty much. I don't think the Knicks could even get 20,000 people that come out to Madison Square. But they were so unpredictable and radical here in the United States that even the Nazi Party officially distance itself from these guys. It was Booned. Yeah. Officially. Unofficially. They recruited from their ranks specifically for Operation Pastorius. Yeah. So he found some blue collar dudes. All but two of them had been Nazi Party members, which was a good start. Ford dropped off right off the bat, and that left them with what would be eight dudes, which they divided up into two teams of four right. One leader on each side and three Dopes below them with Cap at the head of the whole thing. Yeah. Even though he didn't come over to the United States for the operation, he was just sort of running the training initially. Yeah. And he was watching him do jiujitsu, I guess. So here in the hilarious German doing jiu jitsu? I don't think so. It just seems a little like neighborhood ninja camp kind of stuff. Well, they had to train in some sort of hand to hand combat. No, they're saboteurs. They don't need to know that. They're supposed to know how to blow up a bridge. Yes, but what if they get caught in the middle? They got to turn and run away, jujitsu somebody down. No, you just run if you're a saboteur. Well, that's some foreshadowing there. So here are the players. On team one, we'll call it team. How about that? Is that one? Sure. Okay. On Team Einstein, you had the leader George John Dosh, and he was 39. He was the oldest guy. He was so old. I know. 39. And he was picked because he was the smooth talker, and he was apparently just seemed very American, which was if you're going to stick some Germans over there to be saboteurs, it's probably good if they can pass themselves off as just regular good German Americans. Right. Plus, also, you have the added benefit of not having to teach them to speak colloquial English. Sure. And they already know the terrain. They know the culture. Where's Coney Island? Right. I want a hot dog. Exactly. Yeah. So they were all good, right? Yeah. Was that count dracula? No, that was my German saboteur. I got you. So that's why they went with the guys who had already spent time in America. Plus, it also showed a pretty significant loyalty to your homeland, the fatherland, in this case, where when war breaks out, you go back to where the war is being fought to support it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Selecting from the Australians Institute roles of immigrants who were also boomed members, it seemed like, just to knock it out of the park. Group of guys. Yeah. So Dosh, he actually did, like you said, served in the German Army in World War I, came to America, worked as a waiter, and then in 1939 said, you know what? Duty calls. I'm going back home. Right. The second guy on the first team, Ernest Peter Berger, he was supposedly a smart guy, and he had an interesting story because he had long been a Nazi, since they said as long as Hitler himself had been a Nazi. Yeah. He was part of the beer hall poosh. Yeah. He was what you call an early adopter. He was Nazi as well. He really was. He actually had fled Germany for the United States because he was afraid he was going to get brought up on brawling charges. That's right. He liked to fight. Yeah. And he stayed there for about six years and then worked as a machinist in the Midwest. Even joined the National Guard, the US. National Guard and became an American citizen. Yes. And then he went back after Hitler gained power. Right. Well, he went back mainly because of the Great Depression. Oh, is that right? Yeah. I mean, it coincided, but he was like, yeah, this place stinks now. Yeah. And Hillary's in power. I'm going to go become a Brown Shirt and rough up people on the street. Which is what he did pretty much, because he really did love to fight. And the Brown Shirts were purged in the Night of the Long Knives by Hitler and his cronies and burger. It was Burger, right? Yeah. He managed to not be killed during that purge. Yeah. So he was working with his buddy, Ernst Rome of the Stormtroopers, like, serious business. Right. Rome was actually killed during the perch. Oh, he was? Oh, yeah. Apparently, they put a pistol in his cell with him and gave him ten minutes to kill himself. And he said, if you want me dead, adolf is going to have to do it himself. And they came back and with Hitler, and Hitler's like, what is going on here? And the guy was standing there with his shirt off with his chest beared to him, supposedly, and they just shot him in the chest point blank, and the head of the Brown Shirts went down. So that didn't work out for him. No. But Burger did survive this. Yeah, he did survive and went off to college, but then he wrote a paper about the gestapo. That was not too favorable. And he got sent to a concentration camp for his efforts for 17 months. Right. And then when he was released, they said, you can come out, but you have to go off with the army. Yeah. They harassed his wife. I don't know that he was the best pick, right. Now that I think about it. Now that we've antagonized thrown in prison and then forced into the army. Sure. We also killed his boss. Yeah. Harassed his wife. We'll trust him as a savage, as a team of one of eight. Right. So Berger is the right hand man to dash his team on team heins E-I-N-C-E-I-N-Z. Okay, cool. Then there were two other dudes. Heinrich Heinz. Right. Straight name. And Richard queering. Yes. And they were a couple of machinists. Who were a couple of machinists. They'd been in America for a while, come back and were selected for this team. Yeah, basically, they went back to Germany, started working at Volkswagen. I guess we're probably eager to leap on a top secret job like this. It's probably appealing to these guys. So that was Team Eins. We'll talk about team spy right after this. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office? Then? You could be using stamps.com. Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses, because Stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and Ups shipping services you need right. From your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS. Rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page, and enter code stuff. So, Chuck, tell us about the smiling faces on team supply. Well, Josh, team spy was led by a man named Edward Curling or Edward, I guess, who is, I take it, as the only competent person in this entire mission. Yeah. He seemed like it, right? Kind of a little more than the rest. Yeah. Comparatively speaking, he seemed like a criminal genius. Yeah, that's a good point. So he was also had gone to America in 1929 to work. I married a German woman there. And then they worked together as butler and cook for a little while, and then he said, you know, what? I don't like you anymore. I think I want an American woman. So he did that, and then when the war broke out, he tried to sail to Germany. So I'm not sure if he was a mastermind either, now that I think about it. Well, he showed a lot of initiative. Well, good point. And he was turned back by the Coast Guard, but he finally made it to Germany in he ended up working at the Ministry of Propaganda. Yeah, I guess with Gerbils. Yeah, sure. And when he tried to sail to Germany that one time, he actually had a guy with him named was it Herbert Newbower? I believe that was newborn on his boat. Yeah, he was on that crew, and so he would have been turned back as well. He was a natural fit. Right. And we knew each other, and Curling actually recommended Herman New Bauer to be part of the team. He's like, he can hoist the sale. Yeah. What else do you need to know? He's in the boon. Who cares? That was the youngest member of his crew at 22, was Herbert Halp, and he moved to the US. When he was just five years old. And so I don't know that he was a great choice because he was practically American. Yeah. He was also not so smart or let me put it this way experienced. He was not experienced. Right. A little green, a little wet behind the ear. Sure. And then the last guy, Verner theale he surprised as a member of the Boone, and he was working in a war plant. So just this weird hodgepodge ragtag group of guys were selected. Only two people out of the whole original twelve have been in the military. Yeah. This sounds like a movie in the making. Yeah. But if it would have had a great third act, it probably would already be a movie. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yes, it is lacking a third act, I imagine, like, when someone had tried to develop this, like, this sounds great. So far. It's going great. And then that's how it ends. Yeah. Shelf it. Yeah. So these guys are put together. They're sent to the average school, Tiller and Jujitsu. Sure. And the oldest guy, George Dash, is, like, low kick. Low kick my hip. Yes. They were also studying, like, explosive techniques and wiring. Not just explosive jiujitsu techniques right. But real explosive. Right. Wiring, detonation, timers, all of this stuff. They got to go on field trips to power plants and bridges and canals and see where the weak points were. And all of this took place over an intensive 18 days of training. That's it. They got 18 days of training. Yeah. And apparently Josh, the leader of Team Einstein, wasn't even I read one account that said he basically kind of snoozed through most of it, which would go on to explain a few things later. It's hilarious. Yes. 18 days, and you can't even stay awake to learn how to blow something up. Seriously. All right. On May 23, they were given their assignment. This is pretty smart. The assignments were they had a good plan in place. Small teams of dudes. Dasha's team was assigned to destroy quite a few things. Hydroelectric plants at Niagara Falls. Makes sense. The aluminum company of America. The factory in Illinois, Tennessee, New York. Yeah. Three plants. And the Philadelphia salt companies Cry Light Plant, which apparently supplies raw materials for aluminum. Right. And the reason they wanted to go after aluminum was because aluminum production in the United States, the output was greater than all of Europe, both sides access and no, I'm sorry, all of the Axis aluminum production put together. And aluminum is a very valuable thing during war. You use it to make aircraft frames. You use it to make the interiors of ships. Apparently. You use it for everything from MREs, like the field ration. Tin cans. Well, not tin cans, aluminum cans. Yeah, but all of this stuff comes in handy. And sure, pinwheels, like the good ones, you can cut your finger off with one of those things. If you can cripple aluminum production, you can put a serious dent in the wartime effort. Yeah, it was a smart play. And then they are also told to bomb locks on the Ohio River between Louisville, Kentucky and Pittsburgh. Yes. So disrupting transportation. Sure. That would have been a huge deal. They would just strap a bomb to a pack mule that was supposed to be pulling a boat along the canal and Caboom. So that's team on team spy curling's team, they said, all right, you guys, we want you to concentrate on railroads, because we saw during the American Civil War, destroying railroads is a great way to cripple an army. Sure. And I don't think that's where they got the idea. It's long been a wartime thing to destroy railroads. I see Pennsylvania Railroad Station in Newark. Right. The Horseshoe Bend section of railroad track near Altona, Pennsylvania. Chesapeake and Ohio. Railroad? Parts of it. The New York Central railroads, hellgate Bridge locks and canals in St. Louis, Cincinnati, Ohio, and the water supply system of New York. Right. And they were also told to carry out acts of general terrorism to scare people in general, bombing Jewish own department stores, locker rooms at train stations, just basically just Foment, like real fear and make Americans feel like, wow, America is being struck. Yeah. We're vulnerable. Right. And so the guy said, okay, let's do this. And they shipped out on two different subs from Laureant, France. Uboats, baby. This is Germany. Yeah. Okay. Buntosi boats. Uboats. Yeah. They left on U 584 and U 202. And each team had four boxes, three of dynamite and other explosives, and then a fourth box of things like timers and detonators and wiring and all that stuff. Sausages, just in case they got a little hungry on the trip. Yes, it was Germans after all. Right. They also had a lot of money, roughly about a million dollars today at the time. Each group had 50 grand, and they needed this to travel and to live and to bribe people and pay folks off. Right. In cash. What's equal to about a million dollars today in cash on them? In nothing greater than a $50 bill. It's a lot of money. Like, physically a lot of money. Each member was given 9005, of which it was very funny. Like, team leader is going to hold on to this, and you can keep for yourself and your money belt and only carry, like, 450 in your pocket. Right. And that should be enough dough to carry out this plan, was the idea. Yeah. And then the team leaders also got hankerchiefs that had the names and addresses and things of contacts, friendly, invisible ink written on them. Yeah. So this is like a bona fide spy, espionage, terrorism operation. Again, great movie in the making so far. And again, I think he said before that Hitler was planning on sending several waves or wave after wave. Apparently the schedule was every six weeks they were going to send one or two teams to the United States. Yeah. It was a really smart and scary plan because catching a tiny team of four guys who can assimilate as Americans, or at least good German Americans, that's tough to catch. Yes. So, Chuck yes. Which actually left two days after you 584 showed up, like, 50 yards off the shoreline of Long Island. And that's just frightening to think about. Yeah. There was a German Uboat 50 yards off of the shore of Long Island on June 1242. It showed up about eight in the evening, and it belches out its cargo of box of explosives and Saboteurs and the dudes, as they're rowing to shore, they're wearing, like, German military uniforms. Yeah. This didn't make a ton of sense to me. Oh, well, if you were caught in playing clothes behind enemy lines, the rules of war say that you can be shot on site, but if you're caught as a German Marine, you're a prisoner of war, and you have to be that was taking a chance I would address as an American. No, I mean, like, I think that was smart. I would have tried to assimilate not being like, I'm a German Marine, you're supposed to take me hostage. Right. But I think Joe would have been like Tony Island. Yeah, come on, let's go. I'm taking you hostage. Whereas if the guy had been like, you're a spy, I am allowed to kill you right here and now. Yeah, I don't know. I don't agree with that one. But hey, everyone has their own rules when it comes to saboteuring, okay? Sabotaging, right? Yes, sabotaging. I was just kidding. Anyway, and I learned recently that was of that word is of recent providence did you know that, like, it didn't come into use until the beginning of, like, the 20th century? That makes sense. I would have thought it was a fairly old word. Yeah. No. Did we just think of sabotage, or do we just start calling it that? Did they not used to sabotage back in the day? Yeah, I think they just started calling it that. Okay, so this is Dash's team. Team. And they show up on the shore, and they're wearing, again, German military uniform, which they took off really quickly. Very quickly offshore. Yeah. Once they saw that, okay, we made it. The operation has begun, they changed, right? Yeah. They changed clothes, and they started, I guess they put on there I love New York shirts. And they started digging big holes in the beach to bury these munitions so they could come back as needed when they wanted to blow something new up. Yes. They can't just carry that stuff around. No. And they needed to just stash everything and go and cool out and make sure that no one was on to them or anything like that and then come back and get it, like you said, as they need it. Yeah. The plan was to meet up for the two teams to meet up in Cincinnati on July 4 for a baseball game, is what I'm imagining. Yeah. The Reds versus the Braves. I don't know where the Braves were then. Probably Milwaukee. Sure. Okay. I don't think they moved to Atlanta until the but I was trying to think of Boston, but that was long before so the team Einstein was changing. They just landed. They were in the midst of changing when they were discovered by a Coast Guardsman. Yeah. Well, one of them was that Dash climbed over a dune, and while the other guys were still bearing and changing their clothes, and he walked up, and there was a Coast Guard dude, John Cullen, standing right there, and he was like, hey, what are you doing? Basically? And the guy was like, oh, nothing. Yeah. And he apparently was kind of handling things when Burger comes over. And Burger thought that so the team Einstein had been rode to shore by two German sailors, and I guess Burger lost track of the German sailors and assumed that they were still there and that for some reason only Dosh had four guys plus the two right. And that Dash had climbed over the dune to talk to one of the sailors. So Burger comes up and asks the question in German, and the Coast Guardsman, John Cullen, is like, Why are you speaking German? We're at war with Germany. What's going on? Yeah. And at that point, Dosh tells Burger to get out. Yeah. He said, you fool, go back to the others. Right. And the guy was probably like, what others? Wait a minute. And so Dosha's story was that they were fishermen, stranded fishermen. Yeah. And before he. Got really suspicious. Colin, the guy from the Coast Guard said, well, if you guys are Shannon Fisherman, that's my job. We have a Coast Guard, like, house party house, right up the beach. We just ordered some pizza. Come with me. You guys can eat some pizza and chill out. And Dosh is like, well, we don't have any ID on us. Yes, we don't. Fishing permits either, right? We don't want to get in trouble. It's like, well, you're telling a guy from the Coast Guard that, so you're in trouble, first of all. But secondly, that strikes me as weird about that time Burger comes up, asks his question in German, and Dosh sees the writing on the wall and tells, well, he says, do you have a mother? And Colin says, yes. And he goes, do you have a father? He says, yes. And Dust says, well, then I wouldn't want to kill you. Yeah. So how about I give you some money? You can forget that this ever happened. And he tries to give him $100. And Colin says, no. Yeah. He says, no, thank you, and he ends up giving him $260. And Colin basically realized that something was going down and I just need to just take this money and act like I'm down with the take and get out of here. So he does. So he does. He skedaddles. And then oh, but not before. This is a very key piece, actually. Oh, yeah, it is. Dash grabbed his flashlight before he left and shined it on his own face and said, you will be meeting me in East Hampton sometime soon. Do you know who I am? And the guy was like, no, I don't know who you are. And he said, my name is George John Davis. Which was a lie. Well, it was his real alias for the mission, though, so he actually gave him his real alias, and he said, what's your name? And Cullen said Frank Collins. Which is a lie. Which is a lie. Pretty quick thinking. And basically he scrambled back and Dash came back over and was like, little scene there, guys. I totally took care of it. Right? Should not be a big deal. Don't even worry about it. Pay the guy $260. Yeah, we're good. Yeah. So everybody finished burying these boxes, which they did, and Colin ran off and went and grabbed some of his fellow Coast Guardsmen. By the time they got back, team Einstein had left, and they wouldn't call a train. But apparently and this is another thing, so the Uboat that dropped off Team Ice had grounded itself on a sandbar and was sitting there, like, trying to get back out to sea, because dawn was you just rocked back and forth in your chair. That's what it looked. Was that the method? They had all the guys in there? Yeah, just move to the left. To the right. Exactly. Yeah. And finally the tide came in just enough for them to dislodge themselves and go back out to sea just in time. But apparently Colin and the other coast guardsmen who came back caught sight of this u boat heading back out to sea. Yes. Not good, right? Yeah, no. German U boat off the coast of Long Island just ran into some guys who are speaking German and tried to pay you off and then now of a sudden in the moonlight, you can see the ghostly outlines of four freshly dug holes in the sand. Yeah, let's see what's in there. Yeah, I saw that about the boat being stuck, but I couldn't find if that was like, if they could have gotten away, it could have all changed. They might not have been that suspicious. I think that Colin was he was on it. Inappropriately suspicious. Yeah, he was definitely coming back, but seeing the Uboat was just icing on the cake. Exactly. Okay, so the other dudes had hopped it. Well, they dug up the holes and they found the stuff and said, okay, this is a huge deal. Yeah, we just found a trove of explosives in German military uniforms buried on the beach like 60 miles from New York. Yeah, so toot suite. By 1023 that morning, those boxes were in the office of New York City police captain John Bayless, who then promptly got in touch with the FBI. And by noon that day, 13 hours after they had arrived, the FBI had all that stuff in custody. And Jay Edgar Hoover said, we need to get a blackout on the news so these guys don't get wise to this and we need to get the largest manhunt in FBI history underway. And they did. And we will explore that in all the ways the FBI got some lucky breaks on this right after these messages. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office when you could be using Stamps.com? Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses. Because stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and ups shipping services you need right from your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS rates and 86% off Ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale. No longterm commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com. Click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. Alright, so team ice. Let's recap. Here they are in Manhattan. They go shopping at Macy's, of course. Yeah. They got a lot of cash. All they had with them was the clothes, the civilian, the clothes they brought and all that cash. Yeah, that was it. Everything else is buried back to the beach, but is now in FBI custody, unbeknownst to these guys. That's right. So they go shopping at Macy's. They said, let's split up into pairs, because that makes sense. Kieran and Hank checked into the Hotel Martinique. Dosh and Burger. I went to the Governor Clinton Hotel. Governor Bill Clinton, and I don't think so unless he was named after the hotel. Oh, yeah. You never know. That's why he always wanted to be governor. So apparently dosh and burger met. He summoned Burger to his hotel room upon a tall floor and opened the window and said, I've got a plan, and I'm going to tell you about it. And if you're on board, you're on board. But if you're not, then one of us is leaving through the door. One of us is leaving through the window. He basically threw down the gauntlet to Burger. To Burger. Wow. I didn't realize that. Yeah. And so Burger, he basically said, I would like to turn and sabotage the sabotage. Right. And go against Germany, because America is kind of great. So Dosh was going to kill Burger if Burger didn't go along with it. That's what he said. And apparently Burger had the choice, too, or I can defeat you and throw you out the window, or you can triumph and be the living victor. Yeah. So I think Burger was just on board, and they said that in this article that Dosh probably was telling the truth, that this was his idea from the beginning. So here's the question. Historically speaking, dash has been seen as a genuine betrayer of this mission. Sure. But when he became a genuine betrayer of the mission is at issue still, according to this history in that article, either he knew it before they even landed, and that is why he showed his face and gave his real alias to John Cullen on the beach. Which makes sense. Or his encounter with John Cullen on the beach rattled him enough that he was like, this is never going to work. We're already dead in the water. That's a quick turn. So now I'm going to go ahead and betray it. Yes. I say that he was in from the beginning. That's my feeling. Because he's snoozing in spy school. I don't know. It seems like a really quick like they just land on the beach. Five minutes later, he meets a guy and he's like, wait a minute, it's off. I'm going to betray Germany. Right. It just seemed a little too hasty. Maybe he had nerves of spaghetti. Yeah, cooked spaghetti, even. So he says, here's the plan. On Monday. Dosh the burger right. Yeah. He said, on Monday, I'm going to go to. Had they closed the window by now? Yeah, I think so. They went to dinner, and everything was good, and he said, I'm going to go to Washington, meet with J. Edgar Hoover. It should be pretty easy to get that meeting. The man himself. Yeah, I hear he wears nothing but a caper on the office. And he said, you go back to the other two guys and just sort of occupy them for a little while while I'm going to DC and requesting a meeting with the FBI. The head of the FBI. Right. So Berger says, let's do this. Dash says, okay, it's Sunday, and Dash doesn't make his way to DC. Until Thursday morning. Yes. Instead, he goes, so remember, he was a waiter in America. Well, he called the FBI first, at least. Right. And the reason why he called first is he was a little worried, because apparently, back in a training camp in the woods, cop falter cop, had said, you guys don't need to worry. We have a man on the inside of the FBI. So Dosh was worried that if he called or if he just showed up at FBI headquarters, he talked to that one guy. Right. Out of all the FBI guys, he would have that level of bad luck, which, from what I understand, that was something that was a good concern for sure to have. So he called the New York bureau first and said, I'm a German dude. I've got information for Jehovah. Tell him I'm coming. And then he hung up, and he went to a club for waiters and then played pinocchio for, like, two straight days. Yeah, I think he was probably gambling. That's what I think, too, because if I'm not mistaken with the math, he ended up with more money than he came with. Really? Yeah. So he went and gambled with sabotage money? I think so. Man, that guy is some serious colonies. He's pretty awesome. So eventually he said, all right, I got to go to Washington. This pinuckle game has dried up. So he hopped on the Acella Express for Washington. Sure. Which I highly recommend, by the way. Man, train travel is awesome. Regional train travel, or is it delight? Such a delight, and especially from Boston to New York, you just ride along the coastline there, and it's just lovely. It is lovely. Sailboats and Cape Cod houses on points, lobster rolls. Yeah, it's nice. Good stuff. All right, so Dosh has arrived by train. Finally, by this point, Team Spy has landed. Right. This is show up in Florida, and they're like, let's do this for real. And I imagine Ponavida Beach in 1943. It was a pretty low key scenario, for sure. Yeah, I would think so. They are 25 miles south of Jacksonville. They bury their crates, no sweat. Hop on a bus, go to Jacksonville. They split up from that .2, went to Cincinnati, two went to chicago. Yeah. And no one was calling the FBI. They were in it to win it, basically. Yeah. They should have done Team Einstein, should have done their recon beforehand. The U boat should have not pulled up next to a Coast Guard station. First of all, that would have been one thing. Yeah. Because that Coast Guard station was, like, half a mile away. Yeah, it was there. All right. Maybe they had bad intel. So Dosh gets to D. C checks into the Mayflower Hotel. Yeah. This is the same day that Carolyn's group lands in Ponte Vedra. It's a big day. Huge day. Okay. And he in DC. Said, all right, I'm going to call the FBI again because I got to meet with Uber. And he reached out to Dwayne. Trainer. And of course, Trainer says, this is probably not a legitimate call. We get these kind of weird calls all the time, but just in case, let's go pick them up. Yeah. Let's see what's going on. It's a slow day at headquarters. Yeah, exactly. So they go and pick up the German, and they bring them to the Justice Department. And Dash said that he was basically bounced from agent to agent. He was kind of a hot potato. Nobody wanted to deal with them. And finally, he convinced these guys enough to end up in the office of Mickey Ladd, who was running the manhunt for the spies. And the head of the spies was now sitting in his office yeah. Telling him he's the head of the spies. And he still didn't quite believe him until Dash said, well, here, let me show you this, and dumped out $84,000 on Lad's desk. And Lad said, I'm so pleased you came in today. Right. Come with me. Yeah. So Dosh here's his idea. I want to talk to Hoover himself, because I'm going to be a hero, and I might even get, like, a Medal of Honor out of this. Right. Like, maybe J Auger will have me over to his house for dinner. Yeah. Who knows what could come of this ticker tape parade? They threw those all the time back then. Yeah. So the FBI gets him talking. He does get to meet Hoover briefly. Sure. But a couple of other agents take his deposition, which lasts for 13 hours. Before he finished, he had told them about Burger and where Burger was, and they went and picked up Burger. Yeah. He's like, wow. He was still telling them the story. They were already on Burgers hotel, staking him out. Yeah. Before they picked up Burger, they were staking him out, like you said, and they watched Burger go meet Kieran and Hank. And so they just arrested all three of them. And all of a sudden, they have Team Eins in custody within a day of Dosh walking into FBI headquarters. It didn't go so well for team items. No. No. When the team leader betrays you yeah. You're in trouble. You're toast. So on June 22, Hoover wrote to FDR and said, you know what, sir? We've caught all the members of this group that landed on Long Island. Pretty great. We are awesome. He didn't mention that. The guy turned himself in and told him where everyone was. Right. And so FDR was just thought that Hoover had done, like, a bang up job, basically. He's like, way to go. Way to do your job. Exactly. He lied, pretty much. So Dash had no real leads or anything about team, but he did have a handkerchief that's right. That had contacts on invisible ink. And surprisingly, he hadn't blown his nose in it right. At this point, but he couldn't remember how you're supposed to get the invisible ink to become visible. No. Luckily, the FBI had a crack team of lab taxes on this thing, and they figured it out, and now all of a sudden, they have the names and addresses of all the German contacts for these teams right there in their hands, thanks to Dash. Yeah. Right. So they were all obviously staked out, just waiting on Team Spa to meet up with these people. Right. Which they did. But first, Team Spy did some other weird stuff. Like Herbert Hop. He was in Chicago, where, again, he'd lived since he was five, and Hop decided that he would buy a Pontiac car. Yeah. He went to his parents'house right. Told his dad everything. He had his dad buying this car? Yes. And he proposed to his girlfriend. He remember he had left during the war, and he was an able bodied man over age 18. And so the local draft board wanted to know where he was, so he dropped by FBI headquarters to clear up his draft problem. Says, I'm back. Sorry, I've already registered with my local draft board. No need to track me anymore. I'm just an all American boy. Yeah. And the FBI was like, yeah, sure. Thank you for coming by. Right. And then tail them on the way out. And then he led them to at least one other team member. Right? Yeah. And while this was going on, Curling and Verner Theo went to New York and met up with a friend named Helmet Liner because they wanted to have sex with a lady. Liner hooked him up with his mistress, said, Here, have sex with her. And he said, Great, thanks. And he ended up traveling with that woman. Curling did. And within a couple of days after Dosh surrendered, they spotted Curling because they were trailing him at a bar where he met with Theil, and they arrested both of those guys. Right. So two down on Team Spy I'm sorry. Three down at this point. Right. Hop was taken down in Chicago. Yeah. The only one left at this point was Herman Newbower. Right. And New Bower spent his time in was it in New York? I think he was in Chicago. Okay. You're probably right. He just went to the movies over and over again. That's what he did. He was apparently lonely, so he sought out some friends of his wife whom he hadn't really met before. He told him everything? Told him everything. Gave him his money for safekeeping. Unbelievable. But kept enough to go to the movies a bunch. So basically he kept a dollar, right. Plus popcorn. Okay. Dollar 50. Yeah. And then I think he just came back from the movies when the FBI picked him up. Right? Yes. So Dash, remember, is sure that he's going to be vetted as a hero, that Jacob Hoover is probably thinking about him right then. Yeah. He's just like basically like Ralphie in A Christmas Story, just daydreaming about how he's going to be carried around on everyone's shoulders. He probably should have been. He's the reason why this went south, because he said, you know what? I'm siding with America. Sure. The thing is, Hoover, he didn't care. Jerhover. Not only did he not care, hoover was taking the credit for all of this unraveling to bury this. Right. He couldn't let Dosh be known as this guy who had come and given him this whole thing on a platter. Right. Or else Hoover would look like an idiot. And Dosh might very well have been hailed as at least a slimy collaborator rather than a criminal. After everybody was rounded up, the FBI arrested Dosh. And Dash must have been quite surprised by this. Well, yeah, they arrested him, but they said, hey, just go along with this. You'll get a full presidential pardon after six months. Oh, really? Just sort of play along with the arrest. And he was like, oh, okay, I see. So put me in the jail with the other guys. They don't know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, sure. Well, because that job with Hoover's plan to keep it all quiet still exactly. Was working out great for Hoover. It didn't work out great for Dosh or the others, Chuck. No. So FDR wanted to make sure that he could get the death penalty and that this could be kept quiet, so he formed a military tribunal to try these guys, and it was the first one since Lincoln had been assassinated. Yeah. It was a big deal. So the prosecutor was Attorney General Francis Biddle. Chief defense was Colonel Kenneth Royal. The defense argued initially for a civilian trial that was quickly scrapped, and they said, no, we're going to move forward with the tribunal, and held the trial. The Justice Department in Washington during the month of July 1942 and basically said, there's not going to be much of a trial, fellas. Right. We know everything because you told us everything. Exactly. You are coming here to sabotage and blow up our junk, and you're in big trouble. Right. And the prosecutors sought the death penalty as expected, but it was up to FDR to decide when and where and to do that he had to have a transcript of the trial. And when he got this transcript of the trial, it became obvious that Hoover hadn't really done anything. Apparently, FDR never called them out on it in public. No. Which was a nice thing to do, I guess, because that would have just been further embarrassment for the whole country. So they kept that quiet. But at this point, it was news all over the country. They weren't keeping it quiet with the press. No. The American public was way in favor of the death penalty. In fact, there was an open letter published in one newspaper calling for them to be fed to Gargantua, the gorilla at the Ringling Brothers circuits, because it's fair to Gargantua, too. Yeah. Eat those Germans. Well, instead, they electrocuted six of them on August 8 of the district jail in Washington, DC. That's right. Including Herbert Hop, who is just like, I just wanted a Pontiac. Yeah. I just wanted to see my parents. Burger and Dash were spared the death penalty because they basically had a hard time proving in court that they didn't fully intend to betray the operation. Yeah, exactly right. So they did not get electrocuted. They were sentenced Burger to hard labor for the rest of his life, and Dash was given 30 years. But President Truman commuted their sentences, released them and deported them, had them shipped to West Germany. West Berlin said, don't come back. No. Get out. And the other guys were buried in a potters field, by the way, outside Washington. Yes. Which is now the DC. Municipal water treatment plant. Oh, really? Yeah. Where they were buried. Yes. Just right now, they're part of the system, I guess. So Dash and Burger go back to Germany, and Burger starts feeding the media the story, basically, five years later right. And blames for the deaths of these other six German patriots who were saboteurs. Right. And Dosh tried to publicly clear himself through. He first saw the pardon in America so that he could come back. Yeah. He really wanted to get out of Germany. Yeah, I can imagine. And America said, no, we're not going to do that. We're not going to pardon you. We're still mad at you. Germany said, we're mad at you, too. And so he just kind of faded out of the public spotlight. Yes. He ended up dying in 1992 at the age of 89. And I didn't see any follow up for Burger. I think he wasn't quite as vilified as Dash was. Right, for sure. But that was not the last time the Germans sent Sabote Tours ashore. There was at least one other ill fated attempt in 1944, another German submarine. These are expensive boats, man. They are really taking a massive risk to drop off a couple of Saboteurs. But they did it again off of Maine in a snowstorm, and two former American residents, german Americans, were sent off under the main coast in a snowstorm. They were seen by a local Boy Scout using a compass during the snow storm on the side of the road. And the Boy Scout was suspicious, so he traced their tracks all the way back to the shoreline when they come out of nowhere, and he's like, I'm going to call the police. Boy Scouts actually caught these guys? Yeah, that's pretty cool. What's ironic is one of these German American saboteurs was a Boy Scout himself. So it's like Boy Scout on Boy Scout. Saddling. Wow. And they got picked up immediately. As far as everybody knows, that's the last time Germany ever tried that. Yeah. I think the idea was that Hitler was like, this is embarrassing. Yeah, let's just focus on the rocket program. Yeah. We can't keep sending guys to the United States who immediately get there and start doing stupid things, right. Giving themselves up. Yeah. Go and see mom and dad seeing a movie playing. Pnacle. So that's it. That's the story of the time the Nazis invaded Florida and New York and Maine. If you want to know more about that, check out history. Net. Check out damn interesting. Check out all sorts of stuff. Yes. Just search it. You'll find all sorts of cool things on it. I would not look for the movie. Coming soon to a theater near you. No. The third act. Nonexistent. No, not really. No. It's just kind of a let down. Doesn't end with the bang. No. Ends with Germany being mad at them in America, too. Let's see. I think I said Germany is mad, which means it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this our cutest youngest fan, and it includes an audio clip. Yeah. Hey, guys, did you hear this? Yes. It's pretty great. My son Archer is two and a half years old. Just two and a half. We listen to podcasts together while I rock him to sleep at nap time, in bedtime, anytime he's tired, he says, Mommy, let's go Archer's room and listen to podcast. I usually rotate between stuff you should know and other how stuff works. Podcast. He's never seemed to have a preference until about two weeks ago when I put another podcast on. He said, no, Mommy, not that podcast. Just stuff. You know, the red one. You guys are his favorite, which is fine with me. And I have even attached a voice recording of him requesting your podcast. It was not rehearsed, mind you. It's just me asking him before his nap time today. That is from Shauna. And Shauna gave us permission to hear from Archer. So let's go ahead and play that clip right now. Okay. Are you ready to take a nap? Yeah. Do you want to listen to a podcast? Yeah. Okay. Which podcast? Castle stuff you should know. Yes. Okay. Wow. Pretty cute. Holy cow. Kid knows his stuff. Unbelievable. So, Archer, if you can understand what's going on here, by the sound coming out of the speakers. We know you don't have four memories, but hopefully this episode will be a documentation. That's right, Archer. So good luck in life. You are off to a great start. And now take your nap, little buddy. Nice. Well, if you want to share with us how your cute kid loves stuff, you should know we love hearing that, right, Chuckers? We do. You can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on facebook. Comstuffyshow. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@houseworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web stuffycheanow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howtoftworks.com. Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means schools out, the sun's shining, the daylight is longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilguera and Georgia Hard Stark, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | ||
ae1cea4c-43ee-11e8-aec3-6f2770934948 | Nepotism: When Hiring the Best Just Won't Do | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/nepotism-when-hiring-the-best-just-wont-do | Nepotism is something that is very hard to avoid, and very hard to resist, even if you know it may be the wrong thing to do. We all love helping out families get ahead, but you're also costing someone else an opportunity when you play ball. | Nepotism is something that is very hard to avoid, and very hard to resist, even if you know it may be the wrong thing to do. We all love helping out families get ahead, but you're also costing someone else an opportunity when you play ball. | Tue, 01 May 2018 13:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2018, tm_mon=5, tm_mday=1, tm_hour=13, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=121, tm_isdst=0) | 40163883 | audio/mpeg | "Binge. Listen this and all your artist stations, plus any song from our library of millions of songs, all ad free. Get your free 30 day trial of iHeartRadio AllAccess. You'll love it. Don't be basic, be extra. Start your free 30 day trial of iHeartRadio AllAccess. Now. Welcome to stuff you should know from howstoughforkworkscom hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. And there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. And there's Jerry Roland. Over there, the McDonald Triad stuff you should know. McDonald Triad? What's that? Really? Wow. You are spacey today. We literally talked about it 10 minutes ago. Oh, that yeah. Sorry. Bedwetting fire starting. Harming animals, I was thinking of I call fire starting. I call bed wedding. All right, Jerry's. Animal harmony. Well, we know that's not true, but the first thing, I thought it was a McDonald's, because I am totally spicy today. And plus, you could probably use the McDonald's right now, I'll bet. No, I already ate. But if I hadn't have eaten ramen, I could have totally partied on a Quarter Pounder. Quarter Pounder. Definitely not a Big Mac, right? I don't do Big Macs. It's the sauce. It's a weirdo sauce. Yeah. I don't do it. And you don't need another third piece of bread. No. It is a great standard of measure, though, isn't it? What do you mean? Big Max? Sure, yeah. Ex big Max of Calories or something. It's a unit of measure here in America. I don't think I've ever had a Big Mac in my life. I've had, like, maybe one, maybe two. Yeah, I've pretty much learned my lesson the first time. Yeah. I'm a quarter pounder guy. I like Quarter Pounders. But really, there's nothing better than just their plain old Double Cheeseburger. Oh, just their little smash burger. But the Double Cheeseburger and there's a difference. They have a Double cheeseburger and a MC double. Did you know that? From what I can discern what I can discern, the only difference is the Double Cheeseburger has two slices of cheese. The McDougall has one. Everything else is the same. Where's the one piece of cheese? Why would you even sell it like that? It's weird. It doesn't make any sense. You could say McDouble with just one slice of cheese. That makes stupid, is what they should say. Yeah. Pull forward and hang your head in shame, and we'll give you your stupid sandwich. I'm going to go to McDonald's and order a MCDOT. Remember those? Oh, yeah. The hot side. Hot McDonald. Right? Yeah. And you could, like, fold the little Styrofoam container, which I mean, it kind of makes sense because even though I don't do the big garden on the burger anyway, part of the reason I don't is because I don't like hot. Soggy lettuce right. So the Mcdld would solve that. It would. But it was really just like here's, even more styrofoam. Yeah. And, yes, it was terrible for the Earth, but that was, like the look of my youth, you know what I'm saying? The big deal? Well, no, the styrofoam container, everything came in. Everything. Like the cinnamon roll used to come in a styrofoam container, for God's sake. Yeah. You'd be like, can I have a pack of salt? And they'd put it in a styrofoam. All right, that got some big McDonald's dollars coming our way now. So I want to paint a picture for you, Chuck. Let's say you own the McDonald's franchise here in town, okay. And you decided that you wanted your daughter to take over the business. Sure. If you just said, okay, I'm ready to retire. It's your turn now. Come on in. See you later. Good luck. You would not be doing what's known as nepotism. Right. You'd be doing it wrong. There's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it, but either way, what you're engaged in is nepotism. Yeah. They say, well, I've really pulled that one out of your butt. Yeah, I didn't know if you meant pulled it off or pulled it out of your butt. I meant pulled it off. Okay. You did very well. Nice transition with the nip. It is. That's all I was looking for. Yeah. They do say I mean, some experts will say if you do have a family business and you want to eventually hand that over your kids, if you really want to do that the right way, have them work outside in that industry, maybe for another company for a while. Yes. Gaining some experience outside your own company, because it can be very problematic to the other employees when that happens, because even if they're qualified, there's a bit of a target sometimes on their back. Yeah. It's unfair to them. It's unfair to the other employees. It says a lot about you, too. It sends signals, whether you mean it or not, it sends signals that you're insecure in your leadership, and you need to surround yourself with people who you know will generally agree with you. And even if they don't agree with you, you are bringing them in in a position where they really owe you a favor. There's a lot of opportunity for people to be like, this person is not even qualified for this position. I'm more qualified. I'm just not their son or daughter. Right. This is BS. And then it also has a real chilling effect on morale around the company, too, where it's like, no matter what I do or how good I am, I'm never going to get ahead, because this employer, this boss, is into nepotism, and I'm not related to them, so I might as well just quit or go somewhere else or milk the clock. Yeah. I mean, this can go take so many forms. Like, it is a time, honor, tradition to start a small family business to pass along to your children. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. Right. But then there's also the scenario where mom and dad start a business and the sun's off, gambling and living up, tripping the lights fantastic. Painting the town brown. Yeah. Basically acting like Oscar Wild or something. Yeah. And then it's just handed the keys to the kingdom, and they run it into the ground. But that happens. Yeah. There's a saying the first generation starts the business, the second generation carries on the business. The third generation ruins the business. We grow the seed. Nature? No, we plant the seed. Nature grows the seed. She sow the seed. Did you just make that up? I think that was something a hippie tshirt. The Young Ones with, like, cocapella on it or something. If I would have done it in my Young Ones accent, you probably would have. Did you watch that? The British TV show? How was that on The Young Ones? What that saying? Was it like a recurring thing or no, I think it was just in one episode. It just stands out to me. Well, I guess I love the young ones. I haven't seen that in a while. I'm sure there are, like, eight people that heard that were like, oh, my God, young Ones riff. So there is a right way to do nepotism, but for the most part, especially in America, especially in modern Western society, nepotism is largely frowned upon by the general population. But like you said, it's time honored, it's age old, and there's this great article that we're working from by The Grabster who basically says, like, you can make the case that nepotism is what civilization was originally built on. Yeah. That really what you're seeing. This disregard or this dislike or disdain for nepotism is actually a tension between a meritocracy and nepotism, which are essentially two opposite sociopolitical sides of the same coin. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And it's interesting, too. I had no idea that in the animal in biology, in the animal kingdom, that they actually refer to animal behaviors as things like natural selection as nepotism. Yeah. Like kin selection, where you will go out of the way. We had a great podcast on that. I couldn't remember if we actually did it or not. We did. We did it. Okay. We did it. But they will talk about in the animal kingdom, things like a squirrel is more likely, let's say, to give a warning call, like a call or whatever a squirrel does. That was a squirrel. Okay. To give a warning call of a predator approaching. If they're near family members, and if there are no family members around, they're kind of like, whatever, good luck. Which proves your point that squirrels are jerks. Right. Seeing hell todd, and they only think about their own. Right. So family wise. But that is what if you're a wildlife biologist, you would call that nepotism. Yeah. Okay. So there's actually an equation for it. Yeah. Take it away. Okay. Because I looked at that you're talking about the Hamilton rule? Yes, but my eyes kind of glazed over. It's tough. Hopefully we won't go down a false positives rabbit hole like we did in that episode. But there's this guy mr. Hamilton. Doctor Hamilton. To us, there's a million things he hasn't done. His name was William D. Hamilton. This is from the 60s. This struck me as it would have like, it would have been old, but whatever. He's a technocrat biologist, and he basically said there is a formula for calculating why an animal would do something that seems altruistic and it has to do with nepotism or kin selection. And this equation is R times B is greater than C. Done. Okay, we wanted to stop there. Did we talk about this in kinselection? We had to do it, right? I don't think so, man. It does not. How do we I think we talked about it without ever saying the name of it and the formula itself. Okay. We just danced around it, basically. So just real quick, r is the genetic relatedness of the person doing the altruistic act and the person benefiting. B is the benefit of it, and then multiply those two things, and that would be it has to be greater than C, which is the cost. So the little worker bees and the worker ants that know, hey, I'm never going to rise to the top here, but I'm going to bust my butt for the queen because everyone else will benefit from it. So for each worker B, the cost would be one, they're going to die. They're not going to be able to reproduce and pass on genes, but they're related to the queen, say, by sharing of their genes. Right. And the queen is going to go on and make 10,000 newbies. So you've got 10,000 times zero. Five is the left hand of the equation, and that is way greater than cost, which is one. Right. So therefore, Hamilton's rule would apply in that circumstance. It seems dumb to me. I think that there's way more going on in life than that. I don't think you can boil animal behavior down to a formula, especially such a simple formula. I mean, sigma doesn't even appear in this formula. It's that simple, right? We can read this formula. It's that simple. Yeah, I almost got it. It's that simple. So I think it's reductive, I think is what I'm trying to say, which is a word I just picked up recently. You've been throwing it around a lot. I've heard it before, but it's really kind of made sense to me lately. So I think that it's a reductive formula, and I dismay the use of it. All right. This I found super interesting is the origins of the word itself. Sometimes word origins are kind of cool like this. Well, you're big time into it, aren't you? Yeah, sometimes it'll light my fire, you know what I'm saying? Like the McDonald triad. But it has the Latin root nepos, N-E-P-O-S which means nephew. And this came about because of Catholic priests who, as everyone knows, aren't supposed to make sex. So they don't. Not always. Okay, sometimes they do, and sometimes they have children. And in order to promote their sons without having to say, yeah, this is my son exactly. They would call them their nephew. And actually, that's where the root nepos means nephew. That's where it comes from. Yes, I saw somewhere, I think, in Adam. So you know Saul Bellows, the writer? Yeah. His son Adam wrote a very long article in the Atlantic in the early 2000s arguing in favor of nepotism, I think unsuccessfully, but I think he said one of the remaining definitions of nephew is an illegitimate son of a Catholic priest. Oh, really? Still today. Weird. Yeah. And then the three types that the grabster. I like to liken it. To the Corleone family, self determined, coercive, and opportunistic. Self determined being when you take a family job, a family member offers because it aligns with your own career goals, which would be sunny. That's pretty ideal. Sunny Corleone. Oh, I got you. I thought you meant sunny, like great sunny day coercive. Nepotism is when you take a job because you feel forced into it, which is clearly Michael ankle. And then opportunistic, which is I don't feel pressured, and I just take the job because it's the easiest path, which is fredo through and through. That really works. It really does. Nice job. Interesting. I mean, it stood out to me like a sore thumb. Sure. It did not stick out like a sore thumb to me. That's really something. Yeah. Okay. How about that? You want to take a break? Yeah, I might just leave. Okay. Drop their mind. All right. See you. Only 45% of high school students feel they are prepared for college or careers. Stride career prep is helping change that. Stride Career Prep lets students take charge of their education and their future. By combining real world skills training and traditional academics, students can earn college credit while in high school or get the training needed to land a job right after graduation. Stride Career Prep prepares your team for indemand careers in business, tech, health, science, criminal justice, and more. Students can take courses developed by industry professionals, prepare for certifications, get hands on experience, network, and most importantly, gain the confidence they need to succeed. Stride Career Prep is backed by over 20 plus years of experience in online learning and education. Take charge at K Twelvecom podcast. That's K Twelvecom podcast. And start taking charge of your future today. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office when you could be using stamps.com? Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses because Stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and Ups shipping services you need right. From your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS. Rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. Okay, everybody, I talk Chuck into staying for the rest of the episode during the Abbreviate. I'm here. So you've got the definition of nepotism in the biological sense. There's also the sociological sense, which we kind of touched on in the workplace, but we still haven't even said what nepotism is, just like we do. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Well, so nepotism is basically doling out favors, typically jobs, by a person in a position of power to people who are their relatives. Yes. There's another very closely related thing called cronyism, which is doing the same thing by handing it out to people who are friends or friends of friends and building a network, whether it's a business or a political institution or whatever, where there are favors done, reciprocal favors owed, and you have this very dense web that overlays that company or that overlays that institution. It makes it very tough for outsiders to get into, which is why nepotism is the opposite of a meritocracy. A meritocracy is, you are good at this job. This job is open. We want you to come fill it instead with Nepotism, you say, We've got this position open. Let's get my nephew, meaning my illegitimate son, in here, because I want him to prosper in life, and this position will enrich him. Yeah, it's a really tricky thing because you want to do friends and family favors. Right. But it's a slippery slope. If they're not qualified, even if they are, it has an ugly connotation to it. But myself, I would be like, yeah, I want to hook up my friends and family. Right. And I want to be hooked up. Right. So you kind of hit it, man, it seems to me, from everybody and I don't necessarily agree with this, but it seems like everybody says it's not going anywhere. No, the best you can hope for is a healthy mix, and I guess it seems like a healthy mix is the best way to do it, because you don't want a pure meritocracy, because what you end up with is an institution that has all brains and no heart, whereas if you have the opposite side, the other side of the spectrum. Pure nepotism. You have lots of heart, but no brains. Right. So you want a mixture of the two. And one of the places where nepotism has traditionally been frowned upon here in the US. Is in government. We basically say, you go do whatever you want in your own business, run it however you like. Even a publicly traded company that started out as a family company will sometimes still have a family member running the show. But with government, we say, no. Nobody can do anything. Nepotistic in government. We've said it from the outset. And we've also broken that rule from the outset, too. It's a long standing American tradition to include nepotism in government. Yeah. Whether or not you're John F. Kennedy and you say, Well, I'm going to make Bobby my Attorney General, even though he has no law experience right. Or the current what did you say that was a great Ted Kennedy, but not John F. Kennedy or the current president giving his daughter and son in law positions on his White House staff, which I thought this was interesting, the law, as far as doing that. After John F. Kennedy appointed his brother as us. Attorney General, there was a law passed, federal law, saying you cannot appoint a family member to an important position. Yeah, but in 2017, the DOJ said a president can appoint a family member to their own personal White House staff. Right. But after FOIA documents were released in 2017 freedom of Information Act, we learned that since the Nixon administration, you could not even appoint White House staff, and it was overruled. There was a reversal of this. And was it to allow Trump to do that? I think it was just a reversal of the pattern, not like they said, okay, we'll reverse our ruling. There was just a history of the DOJ ruling against nepotism in White House staff. Now it says that the January 2017 ruling was a reversal. Right. A reversal of the pattern since Nixon, I think, is what they're saying. Oh, it says reversal of the policy. So I thought they literally changed the rule. So what I saw is that the ruling against it is actually counter to the tradition of the President picking his advisors without any input or oversight from Congress. Got you. Like the government, the President's advisers are supposed to be the President's own picks, and whether it's family or not TS that's the President's own picks. That apparently is the way that it's always been. But then since Nixon, they started shooting down that idea. Right. And the reason we're talking about politics now is because it's one of the clearer examples of how it can go wrong. Because the reason nepotism is so harmful in politics is because we're set up in a way in this country in such a way, supposedly, to have a system of checks and balances to where no one person is above the law. And obviously, if you fill positions with family members, the rule of law and the good of the country has a very good chance of coming in second place to protecting your family member. Yeah. So one of the explanations I saw was that the reason nepotism is bad for democracy is when you have people working in a democracy in the actual government of the democracy, those people are supposed to be defenders of that democracy and loyal to the democracy, not loyal to the person in power. Right. Nepotism inverts that to where the people who are running the show are loyal to the person in power, not the institution. So what you're seeing again right, there is a tension between the meritocracy, where you have people who are loyal and dedicated to the institution, and nepotism, where you have people who are loyal and dedicated to the person in power who's doling out the jobs. And the reason that's bad for democracy is the people who owe their job to that person in a very direct manner may look the other way on wrongdoing. They may also not be qualified for the job. So they may not even be aware that there's stuff that they're supposed to be loyal to that they're not being loyal to, like, in the institution. There are a lot of pitfalls and pratfalls to nepotism as a general rule of thumb in a presidency. Yeah. And I know brought it up before, but it still makes me laugh every time I think of Jared Kushner taking his first tour of the White House after the election when he was meeting all the people, and he said, everyone's so nice. How many of these people are staying on? They're like, nobody. They work for President Obama. Right. That's not how this works. Is he, like, a Democrat, or was he a Democrat originally? I don't know. I saw back in an article from 2015 or 16, and he said he was asked if he would be voting for Hillary or for Trump, and he said, Family first. And they said, well, there's pretty good reason why he was given this position of power. He's very loyal to family. Apparently, when his dad was in jail for tax fraud, he went and visited him every week. And if you are a candidate for nepotism, loyalty to family is basically that's your qualification. Yeah. If you're running a massive 350,000,000 population democracy, what you want are people who are qualified to do the position that they're in. Loyalty to family has nothing to do with that kind of thing. And that's why some people say you need nepotism, because loyalty to family is still important. Right. You want to take another break? I think we should. Only 45% of high school students feel they are prepared for college or careers. Stride career prep is helping change that. Stride career prep lets students take charge of their education and their future by combining real world skills training and traditional academics. Students can earn college credit while in high school or get the training needed to land a job right after graduation. Stride Career Prep prepares your team for in demand careers in business, tech, health, science, criminal justice and more. Students can take courses developed by industry professionals, prepare for certifications, get hands on experience, network, and most importantly, gain the confidence they need to succeed. Stride Career Prep is backed by over 20 plus years of experience in online learning and education. Take charge at K twelve. Compodcast. That's K twelve. Compodcast. And start taking charge of your future today. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office when you could be using Stamps.com? Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses, because Stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and Ups shipping services you need right. From your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS rates and 86% off Ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com. Click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. So, Chuck, I said before the break, that loyalty to family, that's the heart of Nepotism, or the basis of Nepotism. Right. And family is very much associated with Nepotism. And the family is, if you look at the world and humanity from a sociological perspective, that is the smallest unit of community. Yes, there's the individual, but the individual doesn't represent a community. A family represents a community. And so basically throughout history, throughout time, all over the world, the family has been the basic unit of society. And then it just kind of builds from there, right? Yeah. You've got your family, and then many families forms your tribe, your tribe forms your community, and then outward until you have cities, counties, states, nations, right. And it just gets more sophisticated from there, but you can reduce all of it, which is very reductive, back to the family, the basic unit. And I think that's one reason why cults are so unpalatable for so many people who are in cult, because one of the main characteristics of cults is that they break apart families. The family unit does not exist in the cult. The cult itself is one big family. So that these natural family units have been broken into their constituent pieces and reformed into part of this larger whole, which I think strikes some people as highly unnatural and, like, a really visceral way. Are you watching or have you watched not Wild Country yet? Is it good? Is it good? It's bananas. I got to see it. I mean, bananas. Is it straight up documentary? Straight up documentary. Oh, man. And I had never heard of this stuff. We're talking about Wildwell Country on Netflix, the six part documentary series, but I won't get into it. I had never heard of it, and it was such a big thing. I wondered how I never heard of it because it wasn't like The Source Family and Father Yard. Right? I mean, it was half a million people around the world. It's bananas. That is bananas. I got to check it out. So good. I've been watching Black Mirror lately, and I haven't seen the new season yet. I've never seen it before in my life until like, two days ago. And I'm like, where did you be? In Black Mirror? Yeah. It'll put you in a dark frame of mind, though. I'm usually it's kind of been lightening me up, actually. It's true. I've been working on existential risks, which has been in the gutter right now, like mirrors to step up. It kind of is, to tell you. I'm like, well, this is kind of funny. That's funny. Actually. I saw the episode San Junipero. Did you see that one? I don't remember the names, but I saw the one where it's in the afterlife and the women basically find each other in the end of their life and they get to go spend a trinity together. It was really sweet. Yes, that one was that one was good. It's like Twilight Zone every now and then had a heartwarming episode. Right. But I didn't realize that Black Mirror was our Twilight Zone. No one told me. What would you think it was? I don't know what I thought it was, but I didn't get it in that sense. And once I did, I'm like, give me all this that you got. I want it all. It's pretty cool all at once. So Confucius says and this one I didn't fully get. I think Ed is talking about the tensions throughout history between family loyalty and loyalty to the state and how that played out in China, because Confucianism talks a lot about family loyalty, but then Communist China, like Confucianism says, nepotism can be a good thing. Right. But in Communist China, that was all about meritocracy. Is that correct? Right. But then the meritocracy got so powerful that people had a tremendous amount of unchecked power and they ended up just resorting to nepotism. Okay, that sort of makes sense now. I had trouble with that, too. It took me a few times. I think what he was saying is that is a great encapsulation of just the desktop executive balls that click. Back and forth. On one end you got nepotism, on the other end you got meritocracy. And they're just constantly going back and forth. And every once in a while you get a good mix right in the middle. When all the balls are settled, you get a nice mix of nepotism and meritocracy. But then when one balls in the air and one side or the other, you got too much and the system inevitably shifts toward the other direction. That's what I think it is. Yeah. And it seems like, too, when he's talking about the Roman Empire and stuff, like, eventually it's going to bite you in the butt if you just keep it's almost incestual. And sometimes it literally was. But if you keep promoting your own family, you're going to eventually promote the doofus who has no idea how to run an empire. Cousin Ken. Yeah, Ken is in there destroying the Roman Empire from within because he's a moron. Right. So if you get enough cousin kings throughout your empire, the empire collapses because you need people who know what they're doing. And I think that's one reason why so many people are just totally up in arms about the idea of Jared Kushner having such a first rate job in the White House is they're like, oh, God, the whole 250 year old experiment is about to collapse because of this guy. That's probably not going to happen. Right. But these people recognize that the system is fragile, it's not made of steel. And if you do that enough times, if that becomes the system, then the system does collapse. It's probably not going to collapse just on that first person, but it can give it enough time and if it spreads out enough and I think that's what people are really upset and scared about. Yeah. And you know who thinks the whole idea that Nepotism is a bad thing? It's hysterical. The monarchy like, what are you talking about? Yeah. That's what it's all about. Yeah. We have a whole system, very detailed system as to who has assigned the throne in the lineage. Right. So get out of my face with that stuff. Yeah. There was a system of primogenitor, which is the first born son was the one who inherited everything you had entitlements, like the title of the father passed down to the son, as well as part of the estate. The estates were passed down intact. They went from the father to the son. The state didn't have anything to say about give me some of that. And if you listen to our trickledown economics episode, you know that Josh and AMX frowns on that kind of thing. That's right. And one of the main points of the American founding of America was to get away from that, to break up like in the colonies. Some of those landed estates in Great Britain have made their way over to America. And one of the reasons why there is such a thing as a death tax and the idea that your estate could be taxed and that there was no such thing as titles anymore, it was to get away from nepotism that was so rampant and that the UK had been built on. Yeah. I mean, Thomas Jefferson, he was one of the main dudes who kind of pushed for that. Right? Yeah. Saying, let's break up these huge land estates that are just past. And that's kind of one of the problems with nepotism is it just sort of feeds that thing that creates the 1%, which is any minority population. Good luck. Like, you don't have a shot because you don't have the relatives in those positions to help you out. You're never going to get ahead. I read this really great article from the Boston Review called The Dream Hoarders, and it was saying, like, everybody targets the top 1% of the people who are like, Hoarding. The American dream. Actually, it's the top 20% that do it. And they do it through things like nepotism and cronyism, like, hey, my kid needs an internship. Can you hook them up this summer? And then some kid whose dad isn't friends with the guy who runs the company doesn't get that. And so you perpetuate this. The top 20% gets to keep going and become this elite group. And what Adam Bellows was saying, I think in this case, quite rightly, is that no matter whether it's a nepotistic one or a meritocratic one, you have an elite that forms. Yes. And that's like this crust that forms on whatever institution you have. And one breaks up the other. Nepotism breaks it up, which I think is what's going on with the Trump White House right now. It's breaking up the meritocratic elite. Yeah. And then eventually the meritocratic elite will be like, nothing is nepotism, we need to get that back. But you have an elite that forms and that's when the other side pushes in and breaks it up. Yeah, but like I said, I think we're all guilty of making that phone call, being like, my cousin, let me make a call, let me see what I can do. Right. This Boston Reader thing said, don't do that in merit. If you really believe in the meritocracy, don't do that. Like, you are committing essentially a moral crime against a poor kid. I know, man. It's really tough to reckon with that. It's really tough to reckon with that because, like my nieces and nephews, I would do anything to try and help them out. Right. And they would earn it because they are great and smart and it's not like he's a real screw up, but let me see if I can make a call. But even if they are qualified, it disrupts the system and might keep someone who doesn't have that opportunity down. It for sure does. And the nepotism has been called a form of discrimination. Yeah. I would assume that most of your nieces and nephews are white, right. 100% of them. Okay. Well, I mean, if you have some adopted people in the family, but for the most part, when people pick up that phone and make that call, they're actually helping out their own race, their own ethnic group, certainly their own socioeconomic class. And so it is a form of discrimination in that sense, too. It can also, and it was for a very long time, a form of sexism as well, sexist discrimination, because whenever we had antinapotism laws, it was very frequently in the form of a no spouse rule. So your spouse couldn't come work at the company? Well, usually the men were already in the company, so it kept women out of the workplace. Right. And then there's also you see examples of, I guess what some people would call positive nepotism or cronyism. Like in the film business. Let's say there was a TV show where an African American was running the show, right. Which is a rarity these days, but they may or like Spike Lee famously did for many years, I'm going to hire black crew and give them an opportunity as much as I can. And a lot of people would say, well, that's a form of positive nepotism or cronyism. Sure. Which is interesting. Right. And that's just a whole other kettle of fish. Sure. Right. But it is still a form of cronyism, and it is still a form of nepotism. I thought this one study was interesting. Granted, it was in the there was a paper that found the child of a doctor has a 14% greater chance of being admitted into medical school than someone whose parents were not doctors. And that's after they controlled for variables. So that's called legacy admissions to universities, things like that. That all just sort of reinforces that thing. Again, usually like white people with a little more money getting admitted into these universities and into these programs not based on merit. And it's so funny, too, because there's so many people who consider themselves like, liberal and progressive and all that, but they wouldn't hesitate to pick up the phone and support this entrenchment of this ruling class or group that they're a part of. Right. It's tough. Like that tension you felt over that, over the guilt of doing that and the guilt of not doing that. That is the tension between meritocracy and nepotism right there in your heart. Yeah. I can't imagine my niece, if I had an end to a company or whatever, that she was interested in saying, like, I'm sorry, I believe in meritocracy. I'm not going to help you out. You could, though. Such a hard life lesson. You could. But yes, she'd be like, I hate my Uncle Chuck. You ruined my life. Uncle Chuck. I thought this was interesting, too, is when it comes to businesses. There was a study that found that companies who promote CEOs based on family ties perform 14% worse in the ensuing years, which is really interesting. Yeah. But I think that probably entails a lot of those worst case examples of nepotism where it's like, you're my son, you're a total screw up, and all you want to do is get all Oscar wild with it. Right, but you're going to be CEO now. Whereas if it were like a business owner who said, you're going to be CEO one day, go to school, learn this, go work for one of our competitors, learn their thing, and then you can come around and you got to work in this department, that department, this department, that department. And then eventually, once you gain the respect of everybody in the company and all of our customers, then you'll be ready to take over. That would probably lead to a good outcome for your company. Well, and it also points out that a lot of times the good outcomes come when your company is very idiosyncratic, if it's very specific knowledge that you need to run this company. Like if you're a bank that only does business with goats, that's idiosyncratic. Yeah, if you're a goat bank, for sure, then you might benefit as a company by handing the reins over to your son or daughter who dealt a lot with goat. Goat banking. Goat banking, sure. Yeah. You tried to find an Idiosyncratic business, you can't find it? Well, I don't know. I think I was thinking like Cobbler, but sure. Goat banking. Yeah, I guess. Cobbler. You got anything else? I don't think there is anything else. I think we kind of covered it mostly nepotism. If you want to learn more about it, you can type that word in the search bar, how Stuff Works. And it'll bring up this great article by The Grabster. And since I said grabster, it's time for listener not. I'm going to call this one answer about paramedics, private paramedics. Okay. And boy, a couple of things here. We really heard from a lot of paramedics. So I think a lot of those folks are listening out there while they're driving around. Yeah. What else are you going to do? Well, yeah, nothing. And we really heard from you. Utah. We put a call out to Utah. Yeah, man, we heard more from people from Utah than we did paramedics even. And there were a lot of paramedics in Utah that are listening the trifecta. So Salt Lake City, we're going to work it out for this year sometime. It's on the map. It's on the list. And because of proximity phoenix. Phoenix, we're going to try and work it out for you because it's a hop, skipping a jump plane wise from Salt Lake City. Yes. So you guys win by proxy. That's right. So we're hoping to do those two cities later in the year. So stay tuned for that and quit emailing us. All right. Hey, guys, I just want to email you with information about private ambulances. My girlfriend and I have almost 20 years of experience in EMS, and she's currently attending paramedic school. There are two different types of private ambulances for profit and nonprofit. For profit ambulances make a majority of their money from hospital discharges, where they contract with area hospitals to take patients home or to a rehab facility, contracts with nursing homes, transport them to and from dialysis and medical appointments and transport, too, and also from intra facility transfers. Private ambulance company I work for had a contract with a rural hospital to transport emergency patients to a larger hospital with more resources. That's like the feeder hospital, I guess. Farm team. Private ambulances can also have contracts with the municipalities to provide private 911 services, provide paramedics if the municipality operates on an EMT level, or provide backup to the primary service. What? I think that kind of you'll just listen to it in slow motion later. Okay. All right, you'll get it. Nonprofit private amlances can be hospital based or municipality based and usually provide 911 emergency services. Very rarely do they do none emergency medical transport. The fire department I volunteer on operates a nonprofit ambulance service, and all money made goes back to the operational costs. That is from Jay Haley. Thanks, Jay. Thanks to you and your girlfriend for 20 years of ENT service between you guys. That's great. Did you ever hear the story about the guy who drove the cab who picked a woman up and found out that he was driving her to hospice and basically took her on a tour of her memory lane or something like that and drove her around for hours? She was familiar with my old house or something like that and just basically drove her around for hours, and then when she was finally ready, took her to hospice and wouldn't take a dime from her. Yeah, I think I remember that. And I think I remember, like, weeping. Sure, it's a great story. Yeah, I didn't weep, but you know, that's because you're dead inside. If you want to get in touch with us to tell us a great story, we love hearing great stories. You can tweet to us if it's a very short story. I'm at Joshua Clark, chuck's at Movie Crush, and we're both at Syskpodcast. You can join us both on facebook. Comstuffysheno or chuck@facebookcom. Charlesobytook Bryant. Send us an email to stuff podcast. The house still works. And as always, join us at our home on the web stuffyshow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstepworks.com. Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school's out, the sun is shining, the daylights longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon. Music. My favorite murder from exactly right media. My favorite murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgarif and Georgia Hardstark. This true crime comedy podcast will share stories that at we'll have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder one week early on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | |
c495ec74-5460-11e8-b38c-8beac1fe9ec8 | SYSK Selects: Polyamory: When two just won't do | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/sysk-selects-polyamory-when-two-just-wont-do | In this classic episode of Stuff You Should Know, Josh and Chuck dive into the world of polyamory. Turns out polyamorists aren't aren't weirdos and deviants, they're just regular folks looking for love from more than one person. Learn all you ever needed to know about this unique, but not so modern arrangement. | In this classic episode of Stuff You Should Know, Josh and Chuck dive into the world of polyamory. Turns out polyamorists aren't aren't weirdos and deviants, they're just regular folks looking for love from more than one person. Learn all you ever needed to know about this unique, but not so modern arrangement. | Sat, 29 Aug 2020 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2020, tm_mon=8, tm_mday=29, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=242, tm_isdst=0) | 42790760 | audio/mpeg | "Hello, folks. It's Chuck here on a Saturday select episode. This is from April 7, 2015, and this is a very sexy podcast episode called Polyamory Colon Won't Do. Think you know where this is headed right now. Welcome to stuff. You should know a production of Iheartradios how stuff works. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W, Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there. And this is Steph. You should know that's right. All of our wives and girlfriends are in the next room. All right. How are you doing, man? I'm good. I found this topic to be super interesting. And I should say upfront that our joke enos that we always include in every podcast almost is not meant to be disrespectful to anyone who is in a polyamorous relationship. Yeah. And we're not here to just kind of look at your relationship from the outside and poke at it and make fun of it or light of it. If you're enjoying yourself and everybody's on board and no one's being hurt, then we always say, to each his own. That's right. But from the outside, polyamory might seem like a very strange arrangement, but I think to most people, it seems like swinging. That's right. But it's not. No, it is not a lot of things. It's not cheating. It's not swinging. Right. It's not polygamy. It's not what was the other one? It's not a lot of things. It's not dentistry. Right. Well, the point is we should it's not promiscuousness. Right. What it is, actually, and I had no idea I think my conception of polyamory was that it was basically kind of swinging and it was based on I got the root couple thing, but it was mostly like a swing kind of thing. But from research, I realized I was pretty far off. Polyamory is, in a very odd way, a form of monogamy, but that it includes more than two people in this monogamous relationship. Well, not necessarily monogamous either, though, because there can be arrangements where you're allowed to go out and do what you want on weekends with people. So I ran across something that's technically considered monogamish, as Dan Savage coined it. That sounds like a very new word. It is new, yeah. I mean, Dan Savage coined it. Yes, which means that I'm probably not going to put too much credence, but from what I understand, I got this from a polyamory site called More Than Two. More Than Two. Great site. Franklin Vox is how I'm pronouncing his last name. Vo v ax. And I'm not kidding when I say it's a great site. If you are interested in exploring polyamory, it's super thorough and very helpful, I would think, just by going through it. And the impression that I got from him, from his FAQ at least, was that the people in a polyamorous relationship are committed to one another. True. And that in the same way that two people, a couple come together to form a monogamous relationship. If you take that bubble and add another person or two other people or something like that, but there's still that bubble of monogamy, of commitment, of affection that is more close to the definition of polyamory. Now, in real life, I'm sure it's different and that there are different aspects to it or whatever, but supposedly that's what I gathered. But I think polyamorous couples say, why would you even use a word like monogamy when it means mono? Right. Poly means more than one. Committed is the word I should say. Yeah, I think that's the trip. And Sedan savage. Come on. Monogamish. I knew more about this just because there was a show. I don't know if it was HBO, it was probably Cinemax that followed some polyamorous relationships. And so I knew that it was not just, hey, it's swinging, or hey, I just want an open relationship. I'm in a triad. I've got a man and there's a woman and there's another woman. Or in another case, it was two couples. They all live together. They were all in a committed relationship with one another. Right. We'll talk about there is no standard for a polyamorous relationship. It can really be anything you want that works for you. Sometimes it's bisexual, sometimes it's not. Sometimes we could go over a million scenarios. Really good. I was starting to break them all down. But whatever you can work out between yourselves is polyamory. But the point is to maybe put it on less find of a point, but to get a little closer potentially to the correct definition. Polyamory is not monogamy because there's more than two people. Right. And it's not cheating because all of the people involved are on the same page they signed about what they're doing, what they're doing with their partners are doing what everybody's doing. Everyone's aware and consenting. That's right. So it's between those two things. So this is the opposite of the ESP podcast where apparently we never even said what ESP stood for. Yeah. A couple of people were like, hey, didn't catch what ESP stands for. Can you tell us? And I'm like, Go, listen again, enough people said it that I was like, oh, extra sensory perception, by the way. And then we have just now defined polyamory for the last ten minutes. So I think we're covered. I think we finally landed on it, though. Yeah. It's a very fascinating thing, and here's how it works. Well, I think let's talk about why people are polyamorous. Right. So people who are polyamorous probably tend to think that monogamy is not for them. And if you're speaking from evolutionary perspective, monogamy is kind of a puzzlement. Yes. Should we talk about that? Yeah. So monogamy, looking through the lens of natural selection, doesn't make sense evolutionarily because it lowers a male's ability to it lowers his number of opportunities to carry on his genetic line. And they're for the species. Right, exactly. Yeah. And it was long thought by some that monogamy came about so males could assist in the raising of the young. But there are some new theories now that make that seem a little less likely, or actually a lot less likely. And ironically well, not ironically, but coincidentally, they were both published they were both published around the same time, these two new theories. Right. They came out in enough time to really kind of compete with one another. Yeah. Because when you look around the animal kingdom, among nonavian, there are more birds that are supposedly cockroaches that are monogamous. But if you rule out the birds and the cockroaches well, specifically mammals, too. Yeah. About 5% of the 4000 mammal species, give or take, only about 5% are monogamous or mate for life. Right. And so, again, if you are strictly looking at it from the selfish gene theory, the whole point would be to run around and capitalize with as many females as you possibly can so that you can have more and more chances of spreading your genetic line and then, like you said, hence carry on the species. So to not do that, to just couple with one other person and have maybe a few kids rather than 30, with a bunch of different males and females. Right. Again, it doesn't really kind of makes sense. So they've tried to explain this, and there are some theories, like you were saying, one of them is that if you are a rival male, one of the things you have to do to get with another female, I think that's what biologists call it, getting with. You have to kill her offspring. Right. Because while she's nursing, she can't ovulate and therefore you can't reproduce with her. That's right. But kill her kids, she's going to stop nursing, she'll be sad. But then you guys can have your own offspring. If you are a male that's staying behind after you reproduce with a female, then you have the chance to defend your offspring from being killed by arrival male. That's good explanation for monogamy. Yes. And that was in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, and they found that out by studying behaviors of 230 primate species. And they felt so good about it that the guy who ran the study said, this is it. We now finally know for sure. But that's not necessarily true because there's another really great theory where they actually published in the journal Science and studied 2500 mammals, which is way more than the other study, dieter Lucas and Tim Glutenbrock of Cambridge University. And they said it's really about low density in females. It's that simple. Like when there aren't many females, that's where monogamy happens. Right. When they're spread out because they beat up on each other when they're in the same place, females. That's right. So they have to spread out geographically. Well, if you're a guy who's just running from female to female to female. You don't know what she's doing while you're not around, so you don't know whether those kids are yours or not. The best way to make sure that they're your kids is to hang around and be monogamous. That's right. So it's really similar to the other theory, you're staying around to defend the kids. In this one, it's a little less magnanimous. You're staying around to make sure that the female doesn't run around on you. Right, yeah. But then I saw a third theory that also makes sense, too, and that is that the idea of males staying around to help raise kids was a strategy developed by lesser males in the primate kingdom. So, like the alpha male, the top guys, they're having no trouble, they can go wherever they want, they're getting plenty of action. Right. But Les Nestman is like, hey, I can care for the kids. Exactly. And that's a strategy that caught the attention of females who otherwise wouldn't have mated with these guys cause they're less nesting, and instead said, yeah, he's a dork. I can't stand his bow tie and his short sleeve shirt, but he does do a pretty good job with the kids. So I'm going to be monogamous with this guy. So three pretty good theories to explain monogamy. None of them hold water for polyamorous. No. And everyone under the age of 35 is now looking up who left? Nestle is. That was a great reference, man. Thanks. It just popped up. All right, so the benefits, I believe, is what we were talking about before we delved into the theory. And I've always said monogamy too is not a natural thing and that the reward of staying with one person is partly because of that. It's not a natural thing. You sacrifice something in some way by being with someone, but the payoff is rich. That is wise words, Chuck. So we'll see, if I end up married in 25 years, I'll confirm all this. Just kidding. Of course I will be. All right, so let's talk about the benefits. It is not just about having sex with more than one person. No, it's definitely part of it. It is part of it, but it is also about support and a greater it takes a village, they say. So if you have a larger village, then you're going to have more support and care and love and emotional support, all that stuff. Right, exactly. Polyamorous relationship or group doesn't necessarily have sex with one another. Everybody sex is a big component of it. But you also have what are called poly effective relationships, where, like, let's say you have what you call it a triad. Is that a polyad? It's three people. Yeah, right. But that's what polyamorous call it. Yeah. So let's say you have a triad where neither of two women and a guy, and neither of the women are bisexual, but they're still in a polyamorous relationship. They would be poly effective. Like, they have an emotional connection to one another like a couple would. But they're not sexually involved with one another. Right. They're poly effective. Right. That's another component of a polyamorous relationship. So the whole thing is not just satisfying your every sexual need with a bunch of different people. It's also that I think they believe that you have a lot of different needs that one person can't necessarily satisfy beyond sex as well. It can be cultural interests, it can be pastimes, it can be what have you. And so the idea behind polyamory is you find those people in your life who combined make that single ideal person rather than placing all that on one single person, for better or for worse. Yes. I looked at an example on the what was it? Two for one? No, two or more than two? More than two.com. I looked at one. They have a lot of just stories and examples of people, like real stories. And this one lady was married to a guy who quite simply was not into a lot of the things she was into. She was big into the theater, I think, in museums. Her husband didn't like that. They developed into a polyamorous relationship. And she had another man that was really into that stuff, an old high school boyfriend, I think. And he took up with another woman who had similar interest as him, and they all worked it out. And people would say, well, why don't you just leave the husband then, who you don't have these things in common with and go with the old high school boyfriend? That's a neat story. She was like, well, because he's really needy and my husband isn't. And we have a lot of great stuff. So it is literally, like you said, satisfying all my needs through multiple people, because who can expect one person to be that soulmate that gives you everything you need? Nice. And the suckers who are in monogamous marriages are just sacrificing certain parts of their life, like going to museums or whatever, if it was this lady. So, everybody, we're about to satisfy all of your needs with this commercial break. Hey, now. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office? And you could be using stamps.com. Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses because stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and ups shipping services you need right from your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page, and enter code stuff. All right. And we're back. So, Chuck, we were talking about why people do polyamory. Right? Do polyamory, yeah. Let's talk about polyamory, how polyamory actually works. Yeah. I mean, anyone in a marriage that things get more complicated as you get older. So I don't mean to talk down to people in their 20s, but relationships get a little more complicated as you get older and you get more responsibilities. So if you're married and you're in your 30s or 40s or 50s or any kind of committed relationship, it's logistically tough sometimes. Well, yeah, because you're like, I want this, and this other person who you share half of your estate with says, no, I want this, or I want to do this or I want to do that, or I want a vacation here. Right there. Exactly. Just keeping up with schedules. It's all very complicated. It's all compromised. It's one big compromise, and you're compromising between two people's opinions. Imagine just throwing in one extra opinion that differs from the other two, that has equal weight. Basically, what we're getting at is, if you think your marriage is complicated, polyamory can be even more complicated. And they admit that it can be more complicated, but they say that. And this is really what I gathered from reading that site and a bunch of articles is that two for one? Two for one. You want to meet a great communicator, go talk to someone in a polyamorous relationship. Yeah. So that's one of the chief requirements of polyamory. Got to be able to talk about all this stuff. I've seen it put as. You have highly evolved communication skills. Yes. I would not wait to put a good polyamory. Oh, me either. No, man, I wouldn't last two days. No, I stink at communicating. I think I'm just doing fine. And it turns out I didn't say that. Chuck, is this bothering you? Well, no, but it's really bothering me. Well, that's another thing, too. Not only do you have to be a great communicator and get your point across and read other people and listen and that kind of thing, but you also have to be honest about your feelings. Super honest. One of the things that polyamorous face, just like anybody else, is jealousy. We did a pretty good episode on jealousy a while back. Yeah. Jealous Much was the name of it. Yeah. With a question mark. Jealous Much. Right. And so they deal with jealousy, and they deal with it. Apparently, ideally. Again, this is from more than two.com, in a way, where it would take a pretty intelligent, calm person to approach the feelings of jealousy like this, which is basically deconstructing it. So the guy at more than two.com kind of gave a good example where he was saying you're in a polyamorous relationship and it bugs you when your spouse kisses their other spouse in front of you. Right. And he says, the correct thing to do basically here is to stop and say, okay, why does that make me jealous? Right. And if you are honest with yourself, you'll say, well, it makes me jealous because I worry that the other spouse and by the way, in a polyamorous relationship, the plural of spouse is spice. Is it really? Yeah. So if you're married to two people, you have two spice. Yeah. Which is kind of funny. Sure. You got a spicy love life. Anyway, when the other spouse if you're worried that your spouse is kissing his other spouse, he's going to think that that spouse is a better kisser than you and think, well, that spouses, if he's a better kisser, then he wants to be with him more than me. And if he wants to be with him more than me, then he's going to leave me. Yeah. I think jealousy is often rooted in your own insecurities. Right. So what this guy was saying is if you spell this out, you realize that there's a lot of hidden assumptions and you're jealous feelings, and then when you confront them, you will probably discard a lot of them if you find that, no, this is correct. This person really would leave me because that person is a better kisser, then you would ask yourself, do I want to be with somebody who would leave me because somebody else is a better kisser? Yeah. So if you can approach this kind of stuff in this manner, then maybe you'd be a decent polyamorous. Yeah. There's a lady named Terry Connolly, a professor of psychology and Women's studies at University of Michigan. Go Wolverines. And she's so blue she's one of the well, not one of the only people. But there haven't been many studies on polyamory. One reason is because it's underreported in a lot of cases because some people may not like to be really upfront with it. Yeah. And for good reasons. Yeah, for very good reasons. But she did some studies and polls and things, and she found that jealousy is, in fact, she said, quote, much higher in quote, among monogamous pairs than non monogamous ones. And I think for the reasons you just said. She also found she interviewed 1700 individuals I'm sorry, monogamous individuals, 150 swingers, 170 people in an open relationship and 300 polyamorous individuals and said that polyamorous tended to have equal or higher levels of sexual satisfaction. And people in open relationships tend to have lower sexual satisfaction than their monogamous peers and polyamorous peers. And we should say open is not the same as polyamorous. Again, in a polyamorous group, the people in the group form a closed hole. In an open relationship, it's like there's two people who are connected, but they're also facing outward and the whole world is up for grabs, basically. Right. In an open relationship. Polyamorous is not an open relationship. An open relationship is not polyamorous. But a polyamorous relationship could include swinging, from what I understand. Yes. And did you know that swinging apparently started among World War II Air Force pilots and their families? You knew that? Yeah, because you supposedly if your husband died in battle, it was just sort of understood that that woman would then take up with another serviceman. Correct? I guess. But with another married serviceman or what? I don't know about that. Well, apparently it started out with like we called it wife swapping in World War II in the Air Force specifically the Air Force. Not like, oh, American servicemen, like the Air Force. So I guess they know who it was. I think I've told the story about the Atlanta Swingers Club was very close to my phone number growing up and I was a kid. I had no idea what it meant, of course. And I used to answer the phone and people would be like, is this Atlanta Singers Club? They'd just be like, my mom. I just remember it was so troublesome to her and how bad she kept a whistle next to the phone and would blow a whistle into it. So funny to think about now. Shame with them. Guess so, man. Very funny. I still remember that number too. Do you remember your original phone number? 3829-098-1919. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. I'm sorry for anyone who has those numbers today or to the Atlanta Swingers Club, which is still operational, I'm sure. All right. Another thing we need to talk about are STIs sexually transmitted infection. You would think that it would be higher in a polyamorous relationship. And they don't have statistics that may or may not be the case. But what they are adamant about is lots of testing and lots of access to those results and being super open about those results. Apparently much more so than people in monogamous relationships, like new relationships. They found that people in new monogamous relationships are often very shy about talking about their sexual history and potential infections and things, whereas they're really upfront about it in polyamory. Yeah. And they kind of have to be. And they kind of just make it a normal open thing. But that's part of that open, honest communication. That's kind of a hallmark of polyamory. Yeah. It has a practical application defending against STIs. Yeah. There was one study in 2012 in the Journal of Sexual Medicine that found that unfaithful, like cheaters not like a cheater. You're in a monogamous relationship and you're cheating. They're much more likely to engage in risky sexual behavior and to keep it a secret than someone in a polyamorous relationship because you go off and you cheat and you keep quiet and you do something super risky, hook up with someone randomly that you don't know. And that's kind of like the opposite of polyamory from what it sounds like. Right. With polyamory, it's like, okay, it's time for your weekly STD test. Right. I want to see the paper. And we're not hooking up with some random person. Is there one thing that there's a lot of in a polyamorous relationship? Or rules? Yes. If you haven't picked up on that yet. Yeah. You got to have the ground rules laid down. How much time are you going to spend with this person versus that person? All the way down to rules in the bedroom? It sounds a little gross, but fluid swapping is a big deal. So there's a thing one of the ways they protect against STDs is well, let's talk about some of the arrangements. Okay. All right. Because I think we need to because these different rules that we're talking about here will apply differently to different types of relationships. So obviously there's a triad. You can also have a quad. I can imagine that you could go up to six, eight, whatever. The point is when you have a group that are equal to one another, where everybody is equal to one another. Yeah. That's one form of the polyamorous relationship. Right? Yes. There's another form that's hierarchical, which is based on a core couple that are primaries. Yes. They would be the primary and then say each of them has a significant other. Yeah. Like a boyfriend or girlfriend. Those would be the secondary. And then maybe they have another person that they're close to, they see once in a while. Maybe they live out of town, something like that. That would be potentially a tertiary relationship. Right. Yeah. If you break the twister game out and they show up. Right. So the difference between the two is with the hierarchical relationship, with the hierarchical format, the person that's your spouse, the core group, the core couple people, they're the ones who are going to get the most time, the most attention. They're going to have more power to say, veto the others. Yeah. Veto is a big deal. Yeah. In the other relationship that forms like a try it or a quad or six people or something like that, where everybody is equally weighted, wouldn't have like a high there's no hierarchical structure of that. Yeah. And it depends on how you want to structure things. They're both completely valid as polyamorous relationships. It's just up to you, basically. And so you said the veto power is a big deal. Yeah. I think it's always to be honored. Right. So if somebody is meeting somebody new and wants to date them, they basically have to go to the rest of the group that they're committed to and this committed relationship with and say, I got this person, I'd like to bring them into the group. I don't know this, but I can imagine. That is a huge thing. Sure. Especially in a long established polyamorous relationship, like bringing a new person in. I'll bet that would be really big deal. Yeah. Can you imagine being that dude and showing up? Right. It's like the worst job interview of all time, especially if you don't know what's going on. Plus, in the hierarchical structure, then I can imagine the veto power probably just rests with the two core people. Maybe slightly in the secondary people. Right. Probably not at all in the tertiary people. Yeah, they're just there for twister. But with the STI thing, if you are what's called body fluid monogamous yeah, which I was kind of joking about that. It sounds gross. It's really not at all. That's basically saying that we can have sex with each other without condoms and I'm sorry, I'm saying you and me. I thought you were talking to somebody behind, but maybe the secondary and I have to wear condoms, and we don't exchange those fluids so intimately and freely. Or if you're in a group, like, everybody in the group might be body fluid monogamous, but if they are agreed that they can go outside of the group, they would not be. Or if it's a hierarchical structure yeah. That primary couple would just be body fluid monogamous, and everybody else would be right. You'd have to wear a condom or something. Yeah. Or it may not even involve sex. Maybe your secondaries are you going on dates with and you can go to first and second base, and that's where it ends. It's really all about the people in the relationship, working out what works best for them. Right. All right, so let's take a break here and talk more about the polyamory right after this. Hey, everyone. 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Click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. Okay, Chuck, we're back. One of the things that I found interesting about polyamory. Was that they had to coin some terms because they were really breaking new ground here and trying things with relationships. Yeah. There's a whole glossary at two or more. Spice is the plural of spouse. Yeah. And then there's a word called conversion that's very much associated with polyamory and it is basically the mirror image of jealousy. Yeah. It's being super happy that your primary has found someone else that they really love and are satisfied with. Yeah. And not just your primary, anybody you're in a polyamorous relationship with that they've found happiness with somebody else, you're happy for them because of that. Right. So yeah. That's not a normal thing for most people, especially people in traditional monogamous relationships. So polyamorous people kind of, I guess, stumbled upon this thing and had to come up with the name for it and they call it conversion. Yeah. And if you think to yourself as a monogamous person, well, this person goes off, your wife all of a sudden is sleeping with another man, what's to keep her from really falling in love with him to the extent that she no longer wants to be with you? Of course that can happen, but that can happen in your regular marriage as well. And if the only thing that's binding your marriage is that you've got bigger problems in your marriage, if the only thing binding you to that marriage is like the marital contract that you feel like you have to stay true to. Right. In a regular marriage, you should want to be with your husband and your wife. It doesn't matter what the piece of paper says. Right. I would guess, and again, I don't know, I would guess that polyamorists have some sort of structure or mechanism to deal with that, especially if that happens where somebody starts out as a married couple, but then they include a third person to become a triad. If one of them really starts to fall for the other one, that doesn't mean that the initial couple is going to break up and that couple is going to split off. That's not polyamory. That's not how it works. So I wonder what kind of mechanism they have to deal with the checks and balances. It's got to be something they did do. There was one study in the Electronic Journal of Human Sexuality in 2005 that said polyamorous couples who had been together more than ten years listed love and connection as the most important factors in their longevity, and monogamous couples listed religion and family as the most important reasons. And that's what I was sort of clumsily trying to say. The only thing keeping you together is the fact that your husband or wife hasn't slept with someone else or your parents are going to be disappointed. Yeah. I mean, those aren't reasons to stay married. Right. So we already touched on also the idea that if you are in a polyamorous relationship, you might not share a lot of interest with your primary but you've got the ones that your primary is not interested in. You get to share with your secondary or your tertiary or whatever. Right. So just having more people to spend life with, that's another benefit of it. There's a lot of drawbacks to being in a polyamorous relationship that I think any polyamorous would readily admit as well. Sure. Just be in a, quote, fringe sexuality. I think living your romantic and reproductive life as we'll talk about in a minute in complete contrast to societal values it's got to be tough. Yeah. And over the years acceptance of this has been zilch to confuse you better be saying peaked no silks to confusion to these days a little more open minded about things. I did see one poll here from I think it was in April of this year actually, where they pulled about 1300 heterosexuals on how willing they would be on a scale of one to seven to commit non monogamous acts like adding a third party to the relationship and depending on the scenario, 16% of women and 31% of men chose four or higher on that scale. When asked if they'd be willing to pursue like try something like that out, basically I wonder why before I don't know, lower did you say before that there was this 2002 survey that found that predicted as much as 10% that's high compared to other studies I've seen. Yeah, I saw like at the most maybe 4%. Yeah, I can't imagine. 10%. There's just no way because I mean, I'm pretty hip, I know what's going on and I would just be blown away if it turned out that one in ten people were in a polyamorous relationship and just managed to keep it secret that much. Yeah. I agree. Secrecy is a big part of this and that's not to say that shame is a part of a polyamorous relationship, but secrecy is just out of necessity a pretty big aspect of polyamorous relationships mainly because like we said, it's in stark contrast to social values and if you got a kid, you're at risk of having your kid taken away. Yeah. Plus, I mean you'd spend half your life explaining this to everybody. Right. There was the one case, and I couldn't find up any follow up about this young woman, but April what was her last name? The Vilbas. Yeah. She was on the MTV show in the late ninety s and had a child and had two men in her life, a triad. And everyone was happy. The kid was healthy and happy and everything was great. And the grandmother sued for custody and won it because the court basically made a moral judgment. This is a depraved lifestyle. Yeah. And this is in spite of the fact that the court sent its own shrinks to go evaluate the home and the family and didn't find that the kids were in anything but a loving, supporting home and were happy and healthy. Still, it didn't matter because she was living a depraved lifestyle, so she lost her kid. I can imagine that in almost any state in the union you would be at great risk of losing your kid if you came out as a polyamorous family. Yeah, probably. It's one thing, I think, as far as society goes, to be like, okay, you guys just go do your own thing. Whatever floats your boat, that's fine. Keep it out of our faces, keep your little polyamorous lifestyle quiet. But if it turns out there's kids that are being brought into that, like, either they already existed or you're having kids with multiple partners in this polyamorous relationship, I think society's threshold for understanding and looking the other way really reaches an end. For better, for worse, right? Yeah. So I think there is a real threat, and there's a real threat still, in part because there's very little scholarship on the impact that a polyamorous upbringing has on children. Yeah. They don't know. No one knows. Polyamorous will say, look, dude, you have no idea how much our child is loved. Right. My wife loves our kid. I love our kid. Our wife loves our kid. So not only does our kid get to be raised by two loving parents, our kid gets to be raised by three loving parents equally. There's more of a division of labor. The kids are great. And on the other side you'll find blog posts by people who are authorities on the other side saying, no, there's just no way because you're at risk of a divorce. But it's a nontraditional divorce, whereas under a normal divorce we have a social structure to support kids who are going through that with this. It's like, that doesn't make any sense. And the kids going to be having all sorts of issues and then if you don't tell your kids while you're raising them when they get to college and figure out what was going on, they're not going to trust you any longer. But almost none of it is based on studies. Right. It's all just moral judgments one way or the other. Yes. I think it's pretty funny. I bet the same people that don't think a child should be raised by a single parent also probably think three or more. They're like just two, not one, not three or four or five. Two was perfect. So who are polyamorous? Elizabeth Chef is a sociologist who's done a lot of interviewing and she finds generally they are in their thirty s. Forty s and fifty s. Generally white and liberal and educated, many of them highly educated. Master's degrees to the tune of like 40% compared to 8%. 40% master's degrees? Yes, that's what I saw. Well, compared to 8% in the general population. I got you. And she says rarely are they religious, but when they do, it's usually paganism or Unitarian Universalism. Apparently there's a lot of overlap with the BDSM and Cosplay communities. And here's another term, hunting the unicorn. Did you come across that? No, I didn't. I'm disappointed in myself. She said that a lot of couples are introduced or interested in polyamory by start looking for a woman, bisexual woman, to enter their relationship. So I want a triad, I want two women. The woman is like, I would like a woman as well, and so let's go out and find that. That's called hunting the unicorn. What else? I got nothing else. I mean, I did look up a little bit of the history of this kind of thing. Have you ever heard of the onida commune? Yeah, I think we touched upon the communism. Oh, really? I think so. Well, it sounds like a cult, but it's super interesting because it was in the 1840s in upstate New York, and onita New York, where you usually don't in the 1840s, hear about things like free sex and polyamory. But that's exactly what was going on there. A lawyer named John Humphrey Noise basically started a free love commune in the 1840s in New York, and by some accounts it was a very feminist group, because women were encouraged to only have sex when they wanted to, which in the 1840s, that wasn't the norm. But it was also, as it turned out, not so great in many ways because they had sex with teenagers. And the more I read about it, at first it sounded like this commune, and then ten minutes later I was like, no, this was a cult. Right. Got you. And I had religious undertones. And the weirdest thing out of all is oneida silverware that is still popular today. It was formed from that commune. Yeah. I remember hearing it as, like, some sort of cautionary tale or whatever. Yeah, and there was only like, 300 of them, but apparently I think it was all about having lots of kids. To keep that commune going was the main reason. But they did not encourage monogamy at all. They shunned it. If you were caught, like, really rooting down with one person, they were like, no, you can't do that. Go off and have sex with someone else right now. Get your priorities in order. Basically, get your head together. Yeah, I'm sure there's a documentary on that plan that would be interesting. Sure. If you want to know more about polyamory and other alternative lifestyles, you can search those in the search bar@housetofworks.com. And since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. Here's more on T. Hey, guys, listen to tea and a massive tea connoisseur for the last seven years. I was really impressed. I expected to listen and pick out a bunch of little mistakes, but I was pleasantly surprised. However, you guys did leave out what? I can't wait to skewer them on this one. No, I don't think so. Aaron sounds like a nice dude. You left out one major category of t, though it's spelled P-U-E-R-H. Puert is what I'm going to say. He said it's probably the most unique tea out of the six types. Tone to the Yoonan province of China is the only t to be fermented, not oxidized. What this means is that pure air is, and I know that's wrong, is able to be aged for years and years and tastes better as it ages, just like wine. And some PU er on the market that's several decades old, goes for thousands of dollars per disc disk. Yes, disc. Traditionally, puire is stone pressed into a disc form called a bing cha and it's sold in that disc form and it has a forest floor flavor and is brewed at about 205 to 210 deg fahrenheit. I got to try that stuff. Yeah, that sounds good. He said I could go on and on, but that's just a great job overall, guys. And now it's tough to fit it all one episode t could easily be its own college class with all the cultural history behind it. Take care. And that is from Aaron Kraus, who's developer@thesociety.org that is thesocietea.org thanks a lot, Erin. And your cohorts at the society sounds neat. It sounds like the one needed call. Yeah, I like it. Okay. If you want to get in touch with us, you can. Let's see, what can you do? Chuck tweet to us. Yeah. You can join us on Facebook.com stuffyturnednow. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast athowstaffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web. Stuffyshoodnow.com. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio's how stuff works. For more podcasts my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite show." | |
41527aca-53a3-11e8-bdec-6b1f7a8e1ad1 | Tuskegee Airmen: American Heroes | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/tuskegee-airmen-american-heroes | The Tuskegee Airmen braved racism and brutally tough training in order to secure their spot in American history as the first African-American military pilots. Listen in today to the story of their determination and heroism. | The Tuskegee Airmen braved racism and brutally tough training in order to secure their spot in American history as the first African-American military pilots. Listen in today to the story of their determination and heroism. | Thu, 28 Feb 2019 14:30:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2019, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=28, tm_hour=14, tm_min=30, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=59, tm_isdst=0) | 45408841 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. And there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. And there's Jerry over there. So this is stuff you should know about the Tuskegee airman. That's right. Every year we try to do a Black History Month podcast, at least one. And didn't mean to keep everyone in suspense this year, right here at the end of the month. But this one, we were getting this one put together. Yeah, this is a good one. Yeah. We typically like to do stuff that's like a very little known history. Right. I would say Tuskegee Airman does not fall into the little known category. Not at all. Yet still under sung, I think, even after two not very good feature films. Did you see any of them? The only one I'm familiar with is I think it's just called The Tuskegee Airman. And I kept confusing it with Memphis Bell. Yeah, Tuskegee Airman was an HBO movie with Larry Fishburn and others. Malcolm jamal warner, I think. Yeah. Good seeing him. Sure. Always. But, I mean, that one was okay, but I think better than the Red Tails movie, was it? Yes. Red Tails just wasn't very good. Which was a shame. Sure. But speaking of shame, let's talk about how the Tuskegee Airmen retreated. Just to get started, we should kind of briefly go over, like, the history of African Americans in the military, because where we really pick up with our story, the inner war period between World War I and World War II, the military was very much segregated still, officially, just like America was. It was law. Segregation was law at the time. But that's not to say that African Americans hadn't served in the military in the US. Previously. In some pretty substantial roles, too. Yeah. I mean, dating back to when they were not even considered Americans. I keep wanting to say black Americans, but they were not considered that, like, during the Revolutionary War on both sides. Actually, as you'll learn in a short stuff about black loyalists, it's interesting that slaves fought for and against the revolution. Really interesting all the way up through and we should do podcasts on a lot of these things. But they fought in the War of 1812. They fought as the buffalo soldiers in many of the conflicts against Native Americans all the way up through World War I, where they joined the army despite the fact that there was segregation at home and in the military, notably the Harlem Hellfighters, who fought with the French. And even though Americans did not fully recognize that as an accomplishment, the French government did, ironically. Yeah, if that sounds kind of weird to you, the American military had an all black regiment and said, Here, you take them to France. And France is like, sure, we'll take them. We'll use them, and awarded them the quad aguere for heroism and combat, which is like, if you'll remember our Native American code talker episode? France, especially in World War I, had kind of a history of awarding and recognizing bravery among minorities that were just totally shunned to the United States. Yeah. There was even a study conducted by the Army War College in 1925 about the fitness and suitability of black soldiers in the military, and it was just brutal and racist and just said the worst things you could imagine about the lack of fitness for a black man to serve for the Americans in the American military. Yeah. And I think this Army War College study was basically just an official position paper that summed up the sentiments among military officers. And most of the military at the time, they just wanted to get it down on paper. It's like an official position so that it wouldn't be eroded, that they could say, this is the military's official position on black people. And essentially what it said was, black people are not intellectually capable of receiving theoretical training. They can probably be worked into combat troops, but it's going to take a lot more effort, and you really have to dumb it down, and then maybe you can organize them into a combat troupe. But really, we don't have high hopes for this, so we should probably just not mess with the whole thing and just keep it an all white military. Yeah. That was in 1925, and despite all of this, there were still black soldiers who achieved in the military, most notably. And the reason we bring this gentleman up, benjamin O'Davis, SR. In 10 00 19 40 became the first black general in the US. Military. He figures prominently in the Tuskegee Airman story, and that his son, Benjamin Davis Jr. Will tell you what he did. But he figured very prominently in the formation and story of the Tuskegee Airmen. Yeah, he's huge. He's one of the leading figures, and he gets most of the glory and the press and everything, but there are plenty of others who served quite valiantly. Yeah. So that's, like, the briefest of summations. I definitely think we should do one on the Buffalo soldiers at some point totes agree. Like, I don't understand why Bob Marley drew that line between brostas and Buffalo soldiers. I'm not kidding. I know that sounds like a hilarious thing that Josh would say, but I have always wondered that, like, what is he talking about? Were they rostas or something like that, or did they have the spirit of the roster or vice versa? I'd love to get to the bottom of that. All right, let's do it. Okay. All right. I'm excited. So that brings us to World War II. And like you said before, segregation is still the law in the United States. Racism was rampant and still is in a lot of places in this country, but back then, very much rampant. And despite all that, there were still plenty of African Americans who wanted to be in the army and wanted to fly planes. And this was pre air force. It was called the army air corps. Yes. And we should say that this was extremely prestigious to be in the army air corps. It was far and away the most prestigious branch of the military, although it wasn't technically its own branch, but it was the most prestigious part of the military because it was widely considered, and rightfully so. You had to be really sharp, really smart, really quick on your toes, and just really larger than charge, basically, to fly planes in the military. It was still pretty new. It was a fairly new thing. And the whole world, but also the US. Really looked up to aviators at the time, because this is at a time where if you flew across country, you just made history kind of thing. Right. So to be a part of the army aircraft or that's a sweet plumb right there. Yeah. And so we moved over to alabama at the tuskegee institute in tuskegee. And this was a place where if you were a black american and you wanted to go to college and get a higher education, that was a great place to start. Founded in 1881 by lewis adams in booker t. Washington. And during this period, they had something called the civilian pilot training program, which is it was established basically to get a pool of pilots with experience, people who could train pilots in the United states. And there were black colleges participating in this program, and tuskegee was one of them. Yeah. Howard university also had a program. By this time, there was some black aviation history that had been established, and it was small, but it was really proud and rightfully so, because if you were an african american and you said, you know what? I really look up to all these pilots, too. I want to go be a pilot, the first store you went to got slammed in your face. The next door you went to slammed in your face. And again, the idea that black people couldn't learn how to fly a plane. So how are you going to let one fly a plane or try to teach them? What's the point? It's also probably pretty dangerous and expensive. You could not, as an african american, get into a flight school. And so some of these earliest african american pilots and aviation history in the early 30s, like some of them were self taught. There's a guy, c. Alfred anderson, who taught himself how to fly and land planes because no flight school would teach him, no white pilots would teach him. He had to save up, buy his own plane, and teach himself, and he became a legend. He's known as the father of black aviation in america. Yeah. And there's, like you said, a very small but proud list. Bessie coleman was a black woman who went to france to learn to fly. She was black and Native American. Yeah, she should get her an episode, too. In 1932, James Banning and Thomas Allen became the first black pilots to fly across the US. From La. To New York. And they as well. At least Banning could not go to flight school, so he basically found a white pilot who would give him private lessons, which is pretty remarkable. The cool thing about this story is it costs a lot of money to fly across the country at any point. So they would stop in black communities and raise money, basically, and say, hey, donate some cash. You can sign our airplane, and that will allow us to buy fuel to get to the next stop as we go across country. Yeah. So they became the first black pilots to fly all the way across the US. As a result, which is pretty great. But it was stories like this and people like these who were profiled in the black press at the time, I guess the press was pretty much segregated, at least for all practical purposes. African American had its own press, and I guess the standard establishment press was just writing stories about white people only or things that related to white people. So African Americans had their own press. So stories of people like this spread throughout the country and inspired whole new generations of pilots. And it also inspired, like you said, the Tuskegee Institute and Howard University and some other private schools like one formed by Cornelius Coffee and Willa Brown in Chicago to actually start training black pilots. And so this is already established by the time the earliest drumbeat to World War II started. And the US. Led by Franklin Roosevelt, said, we need to get the Civilian Pilot Training Program going because we need a pool of people who already know how to fly in case we need to turn them into military pilots as well. Yeah. And the idea here with the black journalists and newspapers was, here's what we want. There's the V for Victory slogan and campaign. Let's start up something and get the word out, called the Double V Campaign, which is basically victory in Europe, but also for black soldiers, victory at home and trying to make a dent in discrimination and racism. If we go over there and we can fight and we can fly planes and serve our country, maybe that might make a difference when we come back home, that we were distinguished with our military service. So that was a doublev campaign trying to get victory at home against racism as well as in Europe on the ground with the military. And none of this might have happened had it not been for one Eleanor Roosevelt. And maybe I should take a break there. Oh, nice, Cliffhanger. Yeah. What does Eleanor Roosevelt have to do with all this? We'll find out in just a minute. All right, Chuck, I'm just going to say it eleanor Roosevelt give it up. Yeah, man. I mean, she was a great lady in a lot of ways. But what she did in the case of the eventual Tuskegee airman was she visited Tuskegee. They had a training airfield called Motonfield. M-O-T-O-N. Yeah. Because remember, this is like their flying program that they already established. Yeah. So she's watching the pilots take off, fly around land, and she was like, get out. Get in one of those planes. That is a bitch in Eleanor Roosevelt, man. And they said, sure. So she went up with an African American pilot. She went up with that C. Alfred Anderson, the self taught father of aviation. Yeah. And everything went great. And she had apparently a good time. Went back home and got in her husband's ear and was like, hey, these guys can fly planes. They're doing a great job. They're fit for military service, so let's get this thing going in earnest. And he did so in January of 1941. So here's the thing. This is what I'm unclear on. It's doubtless that Eleanor Roosevelt played a role in making sure that this actually happened, that African American pilots were eligible to fly for the US. Military the Army Air Corps. Right. But the timing of it I can't quite suss out. Either the US. Military said, yeah, we're going to establish a black pilot's training program at Tuskegee in January 1941. And then Eleanor Roosevelt showed up a couple of months later to make sure that this actually happened, or she showed up and then they established it. I can't quite suss that out. But either way, she's a pretty cool lady. She went down and saw for herself and then came back and said, hey, we really should make this happen. Or she knew that this was happening, but also could see people just dragging their feet. So she went down to shine light on the whole project and it kind of took off from there, if you'll forgive the pun. Either way, she played some sort of pretty cool role in getting it going. Yeah. And when it first started, there was sort of a joint affair between Tuskegee and the Army Air Corps as far as providing funding and equipment, personnel. They all sort of chipped in a little bit. They were flying a few different planes for training. One biplane. The Steerman PT 17. Eventually they were able to move over to the Tuskegee Army airfield a few miles away from Motionfield, where they had access to the P 40 warhawk. And then they were like, now we're talking. Right. But also the initial primary training at Motion Field was this kind of quasiuniversity military training, almost like an OTC error training program. And then once you graduated from primary, you moved over to the army field and you were full on a military base in military life. Yeah. This wasn't the first time that black pilots tried to apply like pretzgi. They were applying, recruits were applying and getting rejected every time they tried to get into the air corps. Eventually the NAACP got involved, a lawsuit was filed, and even after that, when they started admitting black men into the air corps, it was ten cadets every five weeks. So it looks like they were purposefully just sort of stying the process through red tape and bureaucracy to still not allow them to train. Yeah, and initially so that lawsuit was by a Howard university student named yancy williams, who wanted to be a straight up army air corps cadet. And the NAACP backed the lawsuit, and the result was apparently the military saying, okay, we'll just start a segregated, all black pilot program where the NAACP and most black leadership wanted just integration in the army air corps. So they were like, okay, fine, we'll take it, but we're not like, this is not what we're going for, but we'll take this. It's better than nothing, I guess. Yeah, that's probably a good way to put it. But the program starts up in earnest. However few cadets they were allowing, it started to build up. These men are getting trained. Men from the north came down, and this is in Alabama during the Jim crow era. And there's one documentary called they fought two wars, which basically was like, they're getting trained, they're serving their country, and then they go out, like on the weekend, maybe for a little r and r. And then they're met by the southern whites of Alabama, who basically treated them exactly how you would expect. There was even a petition to end the program just because they were like, there's so many black men in our town now, we don't want them in our community, right? Surely something bad will happen to our community because of this. There was also apparently at least one incident where black military police were disarmed by white locals around tuskegee. Civilians. Yeah. Who just refused to recognize that they had any authority over them whatsoever, military police or not. And at the time this happened, early on, the commander of the base, james ellison, major James Ellison, he protested very loudly and very vocally and said, this is messed up. I won't stand for this. And they said, hey, Ellison, yeah. We need somebody who is on the side of the recruits, but maybe not quite so much of a true believer. So you come over here with us and we're going to relieve you of your post. And instead, they brought in a guy named colonel Noel parrish. And he was maybe a little less gung ho about civil rights and equality and desegregation. He very much withstood and stood up with the segregationist policies of the military. He didn't fight against it, but within this framework, he's very much credited for being very fair, very even handed, and giving full throated, legitimately good quality training to these black recruits at tuskegee. Like, he wasn't like sub par or less than adequate training compared to their white counterparts elsewhere. They were getting just as good training to be trained. Like, he was taking it seriously, and he was being fair about it. So he's respected for that to have overseen this project, I guess fairly, rather than he very easily could have gone to the other side and dragged his feet, too, or put up unnecessary roadblocks and obstacles, too. But he didn't. Yeah. And one of the I guess you could call it one of the silver linings of the segregation in the military was there was already the 99th Pursuit Squadron was already established, which were black cadets to get training on maintenance and tech support for the air patrol. So they were already in place. So by the time Tuskegee gets rolling and these cadets are being sent in to learn to fly, they were like, let's just give them the 99th Pursuit Squadron. So it was basically an allblack unit from the maintenance to the technical support to the pilots that were training, obviously not the instructors. But I get the feeling from research that kind of led to camaraderie and that they had their own guys on the ground and training. Oh, yeah, for sure. It was basically an all black squadron, and not all the commanders or trainers were white. Like, my favorite guy, Chief Alfred Anderson, he was the ground commander in chief, that self taught father of aviation. He was the head of the ground commanders at Tuskegee. So there was a mix. But one of the things I think you kind of hit upon that gets overlooked is when you talk about Tuskegee and the Tuskegee Airmen, you're talking about 400 to 500 ish pilots, fighter pilots, typically, that are thought of as a Tuskegee Airmen. But there were so many more people that made up this whole project, this whole movement. Basically. I think there was something like 12,000 people trained in aviation that are really technically Tuskegee Airmen. Right. They are considered, and they get overlooked a lot because the fighter pilots get all the glory. Sure. But all these people played a huge significant role in the whole thing. Yeah. So we mentioned at the onset the first AfricanAmerican general, Benjamin O'Davis, senior, and that his son figured prominently. So that's Ben Jr. He comes in. He followed in Dad's footsteps. He went to West Point, where, despite it was sort of like a lords of Discipline sort of scene there. Oh, man, I forgot about that book. Yeah, man, that was good movie. Brutal to watch, but a really good movie. But Davis basically went to West Point, didn't give him a roommate, made him eat by himself. They say that he was literally not spoken to by anybody unless they absolutely had to speak to him. Yet he persevered through all this. He graduated and went to teach at Tuskegee instead of going to command for enlisted troops. So it was a bit of serendipity that he ended up there, I think, kind of right at the same time this Air Corps began, which is really kind of cool. Yeah. One of the first things he did was I think he became the commander of the 99th Pursuit Squadron. He also was one of their first graduates. He was in the first class to graduate from flight school there. So I don't know that he had much flight training prior to that. But he went and learned to became pretty distinguished as a pilot either way. But he was immediately assigned the 99th Pursuit Squadron. He was in charge of it, which is pretty cool. Right. So as the Tuskegee Airmen started to distinguish themselves, which we'll talk about more in a minute, davis kind of became distinguished as well, because he was leading the whole show. Yeah. And he had been through West Point. He knew what the deal was. He knew that there was a lot more riding on this than just forming an air squadron. He was like, black people all around the country are looking at us. They're banking on our success. We have to be better than the best. And so he was really tough. Tough but fair. But he would not put up with anything that took away from their ultimate goal, which was to be the best airmen in the country, black or white. Apparently, there were black pilots who would wash out of the program that historians say, like, if that was a white pilot, he would have been allowed to keep going like that's. How high the standard was that Davis set for the Tuskegee Airman? Right. Well, it wasn't just Davis. I think they were saying, like, they were unfairly not given their wings, whereas a white pilot elsewhere in another base undergoing training wouldn't have washed out. So some of the pilots that did wash out probably did because they were being held to unfair racist standards, not necessarily by Davis, but by some of the white commanders and trainers. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, but I saw where Davis was very quick to give someone the ouster if they didn't think they were living up to their position. Yeah. So the upshot of that, though, Chuck, was that the people who graduated from this program at Tuskegee were really good pilots. I mean, really good pilots. They were just held to whether fair or unfair higher standards. They had to prove themselves more than, say, their white counterparts at other bases. And so the ones who actually did manage to graduate were just as good as it got. But what's sad is, for the people who washed out, they might not have washed out of some of the other programs, like, if they had been white elsewhere in another program. So that in and of itself is kind of demoralizing. But what really gets you is when you step back and realize, like, the men who were going through pilot training program were the face of black America. And so not only were they being watched by racist whites and supportive whites too, but say from racist whites to just watch for them to fail. I think Henry L. Stimson, who was the secretary of war, said, sure, we're going to give them a shot, but I expect nothing less than disaster to be produced by this. And I think he meant like literal disaster, like planes crashing everywhere kind of thing. So not only did you have that kind of observation going on you at all times, you also carried with you the hopes and dreams and expectations of black America, and not just black America and something big and amorphous and vague like that, but your family and your church group and your community back home, we're all pulling for you, but also really expecting everything from you. And if you graduated, that was huge. And if you washed out, I'm sure that was equally huge in the other direction. Yeah. So March 1942 was when the first class of cadets graduated. It would take another, like, four months or so, five months to get enough pilots graduating through the program that they were a full fighter squadron. And the early results, there were very high ranking US. Officials that were pretty impressed early on, including that secretary of War Stimson that you talked about that predicted disaster. Yeah. He had a change of heart. Yeah. He visited Tuskegee and said, the outfit looks as good as any I've ever seen. Major General James Julio said, from results so far obtained, it is believed that the squadron will give an excellent account of itself in combat and that it would be a credit to its race and to Americans everywhere. And despite this, it still took a long time to get the full confidence to actually send them into the theater of war in Europe. Well, yeah, and I don't even know if it was confidence. Well, I guess it was confidence in a way, but there were other commanders of at the time, they called them air forces, where it was like squadrons and groups just put together, like a huge mass of air corps subdivisions were called air forces at the time. So if you were running the show in an air force, you'd be like, I don't want them. I don't want them. And all of them were saying, I don't want them. They couldn't give them away. So they were just stuck in America while the United States had already joined World War II and was off fighting in places like North Africa and the Mediterranean. Yeah. And I think I don't know if this is confirmed, but some say that Eleanor Roosevelt got in her husband's ear once again, and finally in April 1943, they got their first orders, the 99th, to go to North Africa in 1943, which was what is that, like two years after the first graduated class so the upshot to this, though, is they're still training this whole time, right? They're just getting better and better in training. But can you imagine, like, having to sit around and waiting for the water to get out there? Yeah. So some of the first assignments they got when they were running sordis off of North Africa, there was an island called Panatella, I believe. Is it that a kneecap? It's Pantelaria. Pantelleria. Wow. That was way off. Thank you for correct kim yes. Pantelaria was occupied by the Italian Army, and they gave up. They surrendered the island without any ground forces having to land because the Tuskegee Airmen were bombing them so bad. They were sent on dive bombing campaigns. And that usually consists of attacking a ground position, whether it's like some sort of transport planes and an airfield or rail cars or gas or water infrastructure. Just stuff to make the enemy rather uncomfortable or unable to operate in this place that they've occupied. And it very rarely requires any kind of aerial dog fighting like we think of with fighter pilots. It's more just attacking the enemy where they are rather than trying to battle for domination of the skies. That's what a dog fight is. That's what fighter to fighter combat is. This is different. So you're not going to encounter other fighters, typically, so you're not going to have as many kills. They don't count, like blowing up a set of rail cars as a kill. You have to shoot another fighter plane out of the sky, and that's what they really count when you're a fighter pilot. But if you're not being assigned those kind of sorties, you're not going to rack up kills like that. So everybody understood this. This is fine. But apparently somebody was talking to the press back in America and ended up getting a story out of Time magazine that questioned the 99th Fighter Squadron's bravery because they've been flying all sorts of sodas. But where were all of their kills? All these other white pilots had all these kills. Where was the Tuskegee Airmen kills? And the context of that wasn't put into that magazine. So what the rest of America read was, the Tuskegee Airmen are cowards. And all of a sudden, Benjamin O'Davis Jr. Finds himself being called back to Washington to explain why his squadron are being called cowards in the national press. That's right. So let's pick that up right after this message because things changed in January of 1944. All right, so the Tuskegee Airmen are over there doing this. They're dropping bombs. They did get a little bit of fighter to fighter action, but not enough to ward the press off. This is despite the fact that they were still segregated, what they usually did was say, here, let's mix in these new guys with some experienced guys, and they can sort of mentor them and help them out. Because it was segregated. They kept them separate, and yet. They still persevered through all this. As you said before the break, davis comes home to the US to sort of battle these reports, and then things took a real change. In January of 1944, there was a patrol unit of twelve planes flying over on SEO and they spotted these German fighters just like Maverick and Goose in Top Gun. Although they were just training, right. There was never any real battle in Top Gun, right? No, there wasn't a battle, but they did engage that MiG. Remember? He flew upside down and flipped them off and took a Polaroid. So dumb. They're doing a sequel to that. Like a sequel with Tom Cruise. Yeah. Really? Yes, it's exactly what you think. It's tom Cruise is now the veteran instructor and a young Maverick comes under his watch. Oh, boy. Who's the young Maverick going to be? I don't even know. I'm not even sure. But I'm sure it's one of those deals where Cruz gets to say, like, I was you. Yeah, but he does. I'm going to toss Christian Navarro's hat in the ring. How about that? I think they've already cast it, but you never know, maybe we've got some poll, Chuck, and we just influenced. Yes. Christian, if you're listening, we're rooting for you, my friend. So they see these German fighters, these twelve planes, and they're like, let's go get them, fellas. And they get into a dog fight, pretty legendary dog fight, and they record five kills in about four or five minutes. No losses. Pretty fast. No losses. It's a big one, too. Yeah. And it was a very big deal for the 99th after that. And this was like after these reports had come into the US. They were fairly dejected, but that made them hungrier than ever. And this is why they sort of flung themselves headlong into this attack and they made the news and they became known all of a sudden as these pilots that would really go after the Germans. They have a high kill rate and it was a big deal. Yeah. So there's two other things. So not only were they not being assigned missions, typically that would rack up high kill rates, so how can you criticize them for that? But secondly, when they were in North Africa, in their first assignment, they were given really old, really obsolete planes. And when they did engage German fighter pilots, they were outclassed as far as the planes are concerned, and they were still taking out Germans and dog fight. So they had a lot going against them and still managed to prove themselves. And then something really big change. They got transferred over to the, I believe, the 15th Air Force, and the 99th, the hundred Th, the 301st, and the 302nd, the four Tuskegee fighter pilot squadrons were all brought together under the 332nd Fighter Group, under the command now of Benjamin O'Davis Jr. He's a colonel at this point. Yeah. And then placed under the 15th Air Force and the Benjamin O. Davis Jr. And the guy who headed up the 15th Air Force, they had the same philosophy for the kinds of assignments that the Tuskegee Airmen would be carrying out from now on, which were bomber escorts. And it was, don't leave the bomber squadron. Like when you're escorting bombers, that's the point. You don't peel off and chase after any other jets, like any German jets that are coming towards you. And there were German jets, but German fighter planes, and you don't chase them away. You just stay with the bombers. That's your point. And that's another thing. That's not like you're not going to rack up a ton of kills in that respect. Yeah, I'm sure it was tough, especially given their reputation. They wanted to go shoot down German planes. Exactly. And Davis is like, no, man, you got to be disciplined, and these bombers are under threat, and you got to stick with them. As a result of this, they developed, like, a really great reputation for safely escorting bombers to their destination. I mean, if you're part of a bomber fleet, you're flying behind enemy lines to go bomb a city or an oil refinery or something like that. And the purpose of these planes is not to shoot other planes out of the sky. It's to drop bombs. So you need fighter jets to escort you fighter planes to escort you to these drop sites and shoot away any other planes that are going to try to shoot you out of the sky. So it's pretty hairy, but it's also like you're protecting the bombers. That's the point. So the reputation that they developed, Chuck, actually became legendary. There was a false myth that generated around it, but one that even when you peel away the myth and look at reality, it's still pretty impressive. Yes. And the other thing that helped to was in 1044, we mentioned that they were flying. I mean, they weren't obsolete planes. They were just not as good as what they were flying against. Right. They finally get the P 51 Mustang and they were like, now we're talking. Dudes, this is go time. Really cool airplane. One of my favorites of all time is that 51 Mustang. That's the World War II fireplane that everybody thinks of yeah. I mean, I want to use words here I can't use on the show to describe it because I get so excited about it, but it's pretty sweet. So they now finally had and you did mention the jet. The Me 262 from Germany was the first jet that used in combat like that. And if you look at this thing, I would rather have the Mustang. This thing looks dangerous to me. It may well have been I don't know much about it. Oh, you mean to be like the pilot of it? Yeah, it was just an early small jet. I don't know. It was probably pretty scary to fly. Or maybe it was great. I don't know. I'm sure it was thrilling. But the 330 2nd now with their P 51s, they start painting their we mentioned the movie Red Tails. That comes from what they did on their wing. They painted the tail of their plane red, and they became known for that. It was very distinguishable from the air. And there were a lot of bomber pilots who were like, we want these Red Tails because these guys are awesome. And some of them didn't even know that they were black pilots. They just knew that they were Red Tails. Right. And again, the Red Tails had developed a really good reputation for escorting bombers to their bomb sites. What did they lose? I know that for many years, they said they never lost a bomber, which is not true. They didn't. One of the newspapers in Chicago, the Chicago Defender, published a story in 1945 that of more than 200 bomber escort missions, the Tuskegee Airmen never lost a bomber. Yeah, they as in people, not the Tuskegee Airmen, but that was the myth that developed that they never lost a bomber. That is basically impossible over something like 200 missions. But that's the myth that stood for 50, 60 years, something like that. And then finally in Australian with the Air Force actually dug in and did the shoe leather work on it and found no, actually, they did lose some bombers. They lost something like, I think, 26 or 27 bombers, but out of, like, the 200 something missions, that is still a ridiculously small amount. And that other squadrons and fighter groups in the 15th Air Force, they averaged something like 47. So almost double what the Tuskegee Airmen saw in losses. So they had paltry losses. But, yeah, the idea that they just wouldn't have ever lost a bomber, it's impossible. You just couldn't not lose a bomber over that many missions. Yeah. So we all know how World War two ends. Spoiler alert the Allies did their job. And so the Tuskegee Airmen start to get sent home, like with other troops over the years. And here's the doublev campaign. They were hoping they come home, and they are more accepted, and they might even be revered. They might get good jobs. They might become commercial airline pilots. None of those things happened, very sadly, that did not equate to equality back home, which is one of the true black eyes on this country's history. You know, it should have just automatically triggered well, this should have never happened in the first place, right? Like dragging feet on segregation and making African American jump through these hoops like this rather than just integrating, like making a segregated Air Corps squadron first and letting them prove themselves like that. And then once they prove themselves, still not opening doors or anything like that. It should have never happened. But the fact that it didn't happen automatically is pretty shameful. It's not like they weren't successful, though, for sure. They laid the groundwork and they laid the foundation, and they began the momentum for a lot of people say the civil rights movement, that the groundwork that they laid the way that they changed America's minds about black people in general. Like, oh, they actually can fly planes, and, oh, they can shoot Germans out of the sky, and, oh, look at this, they can actually do better at bomber escorts than white counterparts. Right. That change in mentality that they were able to take advantage of in this circumstance in history, that changed everything. So they were very much successful in that. It's just shameful that they had to just keep fighting and keep pressing on it. This is really just the first step rather than the last. Yeah, for sure. But I think that wording is perfect. It was the groundwork. Absolutely. The foundational groundwork was laid. As for Colonel Davis after the war in 1948, is when Truman ended segregation in the military. Colonel Davis advised on that integration and had a great career. He retired 1970 and in 1998, very cool, was made an honorary general of the Air Force. Four star general. So he'd made it to lieutenant general before he retired. Yeah, I think a four star lieutenant general. And then Clinton advanced him to general. So he was a four star general of the Air Force after retirement. That's right. Yeah. Pretty great story. Yeah, it is a pretty great story. There's also something called the Freeman Field Mutiny, which is kind of happening off to the side. The Tuskegee Airmen also formed a bombardier group, a bomber group of bomber pilots that never saw any action but saw a lot of racism and segregation in back at home during training. And there was one event that's called the Freeman Field Mutiny, where they basically protested segregated officers clubs, segregated and unequal officers clubs. And the way that they protested it through basically civil disobedience. But in the military, at a time when you could be executed for disobeying a direct order, which they were given, they stood up for their civil rights. And that's another way, another thing that's pointed to as laying the foundation for the civil rights movement peaceful civil disobedience. And that actually came out of the Tuskegee Airman's story as well. Absolutely. Good stuff. Good stuff. Chuck, this is a good idea to cover this one. Yeah. I mean, this was long overdue, but like I said, I don't think we had an article on the House of Work site, so we just went out and had it commissioned on our own. Nice work. Well, let's see. If you want to know more about the Tuskegee Airmen, apparently go watch a couple of so so movies. There are some documentaries out there. One of them is called they Fought Two Wars, which is perfectly titled. And there's also, I think, an American experience. There's a lot of stuff start reading. Go to Tuskegee, Alabama. Do all that stuff. Okay? Yes. And since I said do all that stuff, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this the Tits project. Hey guys, just listen to the elephant episode and Josh mentioned that typically groups of birds and deer don't actually know each other like elephants and recognize one from the other. However, I just read an article in a recent Audubon magazine. I know he said typically, but I wanted to point you towards this study that is really interesting. The with them tit project in Britain. It is a very long running study where they're looking at the relationships between tits in Britain and they have found that they run in social groups and appear to have friends. I highly recommend giving it read. Apparently these guys must recognize each other and I actually read it and that's why I'm recommending it because it's a really great article. It's from Audubon magazinecom. The surprising connection between birds, Facebook and other social networks. Very cool article. So that is from Miranda in Duluth, Minnesota. Nice. You can go read that and have fun, fun on the Autobond magazine until daddy takes your laptop away. That was great, Chuck. I don't think we can improve on that. So we're just going to say if you want to get in touch with us, you can join us on all of our social media networks. Go to stuffyshotko.com. It's basically the clearinghouse for links to find us hanging out on the social media. And you can also send us an email, send it to stuffpodcast@symbolhouseuffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetopworks.com. Hey everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer school's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime four days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon Music come in. There's a perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my Favorite Murder and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcast. Plus with Amazon Music you can access new episodes early. 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How Magnets Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-magnets-work | You can stick them to the fridge or use them to transpose sound to tape, whatever they are used for magnets are surprisingly interesting. And knowing just exactly how and why magnets work will make you more interesting, which is why you should listen to t | You can stick them to the fridge or use them to transpose sound to tape, whatever they are used for magnets are surprisingly interesting. And knowing just exactly how and why magnets work will make you more interesting, which is why you should listen to t | Tue, 23 Apr 2013 14:38:58 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2013, tm_mon=4, tm_mday=23, tm_hour=14, tm_min=38, tm_sec=58, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=113, tm_isdst=0) | 34357984 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with guess who? I'm with Chuck and Jerry's in the room as well. And since the three of us of us are together in this room, we have studies. That's right, the podcast. I am so excited about this podcast. I knew you would be. So much so that I'm worried about it, because, as you know, and anybody who even occasionally listens to the Stuff You Should Know is aware of, the more excited I get about a topic, the poorer job I do at explaining it. Yeah, so you already did it. I should have said the poor the job I do. Yeah, it's true. So I'm just going to try to remain calm. Okay. Because all we're talking about is magnets, after all, you know, and that's the way I feel. We usually balance each other out nicely like that, but you don't think that there is a certain cachet to walking around understanding how a magnet works? Do you realize what percentage of the population you're a member of for knowing that? Maybe, and this is a guess, like zero. 00:20 9% of the human population knows how magnets work. I don't know anybody else until we selected this and started reading it besides Tracy Wilson, who knew how magnets worked. I think you are underestimating the curiosity of the general public for people to look up this stuff on their own. All right. I would like to hear from people if you already knew how Magnus yeah. Act like if we don't tell people this and they're just dummies walking around. I don't think that that's not at all what I think. We'll get corrections on this, and I think that will prove that people know this and more. Okay. If you're a physicist whose specialty is the electromagnetic cracking their knuckles right now, listening. Right. Then, yes, we're going to mess things up. It's true. But we have a general good well, I'd say fairly detailed idea of why magnets exist. That's right. And we're going to explain that to everybody. It's all because of but not in any way, shape, or form in a condescending manner. No, because all we did was research. It's not like we're making magnets here. No, we're just talking about them. You know, they discovered these in Magnesia and Greece. Did you know that? What magnets like, natural magnets? Yeah, like load stone. Magnesia and Greece? Is that really a place? Yeah, magnesia. Absolutely. You're not pulling my legs. Nope. Okay. But it was load stone. A type of magnetite. Yeah, it was magnetite, because that's the strongest naturally occurring magnet. Right. Like, you can attract a paperclip just with this rock. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it is. Even cooler, though, are the ones that humans have conquered and mastered and own. That's right, because all the magnets you come in contact with on a daily basis, maybe a weekly basis have been manipulated by humanity. I never come into contact with magnets. You know what something it's hard to find a decent magnet these days in an average store. Like, you have to mail off for them. Oh, yeah. And I don't have refrigerator magnets because the stainless steel fridges, you can't put a magnet on them. That's so weird. You can put on the side. So we have a few you get magnets over the course of your life, whether it's like the pizza delivery guy. We have one in the shape of a pizza slice with their number on it. You do that's on the side. And like our Vet, we have a Vet magnet in the shape of a pizza slice with a number. Yeah. And then random people have given me magnets here and there, which I'll throw up there on the side. That's good. Those are nice momentums. You mean I got one? You did? Yeah. That's nice. That's great. So, anyway, I don't have a lot of magnets or experience with magnets, but I understand them now. Now that you say that, I realized that I have more experience than I realized with magnets because you mean I do have a pretty good magnet collection. Well, there you go. On our fridge, it always struck me as weird that stainless steel, you couldn't put a magnet on it. Now I understand why stainless steel is not a Ferris metal. That's right. You have to have a ferrous metal, like something, say, iron, nickel, cobalt, aluminum, even. Oh, really? I think so, because there's a type of magnet called the alnico magnet, and that's aluminum nickel cobalt alloy. Yeah. If you've got a really good guitar amp, you might have an al nico speaker. Is that right? Yes, they're pricey. Oh, yeah, I can imagine. Like, you can buy the speaker separately and switch it out in your amp to make your amp sound better, which I have been meaning to do for years, but they're just kind of pricey. It's like $400 just for the speaker. But how's this sound? Well, I'm told it's great, but music guys hear much more than I do. Like, real music guys. Can't you hear the difference? And I'll be like, yeah, sort of. Are these music as also El Nico speaker salesman? Yeah, probably so. All right, this is what I like about this article. It goes like basic to specific. Yes. And you can start with the basics about magnets. They attract specific metals, as we said, typically ferrous metals. Yes. They have a north and south pole. All magnets do. There's no north and east pulled magnet. Yeah. And the Earth is the biggest magnet of all. I guess it is. At least on Earth. Opposite poles attract one another, like poles repel one another. They hate each other. That's right. Magnetic and electrical fields are related. And we're going to explain why I'm so excited. And magnetism, I think I said electromagnetism earlier. So you can put your email away because I'm correcting myself. Yes. It's one of the four fundamental forces of the universe, right? That's right. With gravity and the strong and weak nuclear forces. That's right. That's magnets. That's a great intro. The object itself, or a magnet is an object in itself that produces a magnetic field, and it's going to attract, like you said, Ferris metals. And there can be permanent magnets, aka hard magnets, and they always have a magnetic field going. And then you have the temporary magnets, aka. Soft magnets, and they just produce the magnetic field when they're in the presence of or when they're in the presence of a magnetic field. And only for a short time, and then for a little bit thereafter. Right. Like once it's gone. Yeah. And then electromagnets. When you apply an electrical current to some magnets, they become magnetic. That's right. And if you have a doorbell, you probably have an electromagnet in your house. Yes. The doorbell. Yes. I looked it up. It's more complicated than you would think. It's like a Rube Goldberg s contraption that is apparently pretty standard and uses electromagnets. And actually, if you're interested in that, there's an article, How Doorbells Work on Howsuffworks.com. Yes. Isn't it weird that maybe it's just me as a missing throw, but, like, the sound of a doorbell now, it's not like, oh, I wonder who's here? It's crap who's here? Right. Because no one just drops by anymore. Right. Either that or, like, they know. Yeah. So, Chuck, the magnets that you typically have, like your pizza boy magnet, or, like, the circle ones, are probably the best example. Just a ring, that magnetic ring that you see and grew up with, those are a specific type, and they're called ceramic magnets. That's right. And they're probably the weakest magnets commercially available. Except for the pizza sliced ones. Right. Because that's almost like a sticker. Yeah. I mean, it's connected to or it's got a topper on it. With printing a topper. There's a word I can find the topper, the pizza slice topper. But with the ceramic magnet, it's magnetic material mixed with ceramics, and it kind of cuts it and it makes it a little weak. Yeah. But good enough to stick on a fridge, which is all you're looking for. Yeah, and it's cheap. Very cheap. You already mentioned the Al Nico magnets, which are more expensive, and like you said, aluminum, nickel and cobalt. And they are stronger than ceramic, obviously, but not as strong as the ones we're about to talk about. Like neodymium magnets. Yeah. Or Samurai Samarium. You've got to be kidding. Samarium. Okay. Samarium. Both of those magnets incorporate rare earth metals, which are extremely magnetic, or when combining an alloy, can be very magnetic. That's true. This is something I never knew. They have plastic magnets called magnetic polymers. And I guess those are for use in just very certain applications, like cold temperature applications. Yeah. Or maybe that's what's on your pizza slice magnet. Or it says they pick up only very lightweight things like iron filling. So I wonder if that's what you use with, like, your do you remember the little toy kids thing where you could have a guy's face and have a little iron fillings and you can move it around and make a beard or mustache or whatever? Sure. I bet that's what that is. What was that call? I don't know. Old timing toy number 273. Not an Etch a Sketch, not a Hugo, something like that. And why was it that anybody who had a beard from the 1940s to the 1960s, any child's toy was, like, the most disturbing looking creature you could come up with? You think? Oh, yeah. Have you ever heard of Rushton dolls? No. They were this very successful toy company, and they came out with a line of hobo dolls that were, like, the scariest things you've ever seen in your life. Of course. Like they were meant to damage children, obviously. Well, keep them from hopping trains, probably, I guess. Yeah. Play with it at home because don't go out on the road. Yeah, if you hop trains. Interesting. Let's see. I made a blog post actually called 27 of the Most Unintentionally Terrifying Dolls You've Ever Seen or Ever Created. It's like almost every doll, in my opinion. You should see the slides, but it's pretty good. I'll check it out. Okay, so let's talk about making maintenance. Chuckers. All right, well, you talked about load stone form of magnetite, and that is the strongest natural magnet, right? You don't have to do anything. No, do it. So I guess the discovery of lodestone and the fact that it attracted metals made people start to tinker around with it. And I guess around the 12th century, people figured out that if you took a little iron pin and you took some load stone and you petted it in the same direction, preferably in a northern direction, you could magnetize that iron filling. And if you suspended it in something like water and a leaf for anyone who's seen that movie with Alec Baldwin and Anthony Hopkins, the Edge. Oh, yeah. They magnetized like a needle and put it in like, a water filled leaf in it, they figure out which way is north. I knew I had seen that before. So that's basically magnetizing a pin using load stone. That's how the earliest compasses were made. Very cool. Yeah. So what's going on here? And this is sort of the basis and we'll break it down to, like you said, a more molecular level. But what's going on here is something known as a region called a magnetic domain, and it is actually part of the physical structure of any ferromagnetic material. So we're talking, again, iron, cobalt and nickel, largely. And each one is like its own tiny little magnet right there. It's got its own little north Pole its own little south pole. And if it's unmagnetized, then this stuff is just going to be random and pointing in all different directions. Right. The domain has its own north and south pole, but it's not necessarily aligned with the north and south pole on Earth. Right. They're just kind of a skew. If it's magnetized, they're all pointing in the same direction. Right. Yes. That's pretty much all you have to do is figure out how to get all of those magnetic domains to align in the same north south line. Yeah. Because if they're not, they're just canceling each other out. Exactly. So the more domains that you have pointing in the same direction, the more powerful magnet you have. Yeah. In each of these little domains, you can just kind of almost see it as like a little pocket in the molecular makeup of this. Like an iron. Yeah. The north pole of one domain flows into the south pole of the domain in front of it. That's right. If they're all aligned and you add a bunch of these up, they produce one large magnetic field for the magnet as a whole. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Which explains why, if you do the old trick in elementary school, where you bring one magnet close to the other one, it'll either repel it or snap it together like one larger magnet. Right. Because the force, this magnetic force, is going out of the north pole of the magnet and into the south pole of the magnet in front of it. Very dirty about that. It is. Right. Or if you take the north pole of one magnet, north pole of another magnet and put them together, they repel another because their magnetic forces are flowing in opposite directions and pushing one another apart, which is kind of funny, because this is how magnets work, but it bears such a striking resemblance to something they would have come up with in the 15th century. Like the force flowing out. Yeah. This invisible force. Right. It's witchery. And this is why magnets won't be brought together. Like, people would come and drag us out of here and toss us in a lake to see if we float so we could stop there, and you would have a pretty good idea of things. But we won't. No, we'll continue on. Okay. We'll go a little more in detail, huh? That's right. If you want to make a magnet, you have to get all these magnetic domains flowing in the same direction, just like we were talking about earlier. When you rub the needle on the magnet, you expose it to this magnetic field, and we get in the suckers to align in the same way, and then boom. That is one way that you can get a magnet. Right. And there's different ways of doing this. Place it in a magnetic field in the north south direction. You can hold it in north south direction and hit it with the hammer. That's crazy. It is a little crazy. Like, you're physically jarring these domains into alignment. They're like, yeah, okay, I'll point this way then. Or you can pass an electrical current through it. That's kind of a cheap. And they think that this is where load stone came from. Either when this rock formed, the magnetite formed from a lava. It was aligned with the north south pole of the Earth, so it became magnetized, or it was struck by lightning, so an electrical current passed through it. That'd be pretty cool. And it became magnetized as a result. It seems likely. Right. But today, the most common method of making magnets is to place them in a very strong magnetic field, and bada boom, bada bing, their domain start to wind up. Yeah. There's going to be a little delay, though. Yeah. And I saw this on a YouTube video. There's a really good one. I can't remember what it was called, where the guy broke it down. Whenever it's stuff I don't understand, I always type kids science, and then I look and see what videos are available. Yeah, no, it's good. It really helps out. But there will be a delay called Hysteresis or Hysteresis. And that's basically just the time it takes for the field to change direction and all align itself. Right. Because when you get these domains going, the ones that aren't already lined up on a north south pole yeah. They just rotate around and do a little crazy spinning until they land on it. Right. And the ones that are already aligned, north south, they grow bigger. Yeah. Become more robust, I guess. Yeah. And as a result, other ones, the walls between smaller domains will shrink. And so you have large north south domains, and then even the smaller ones are now probably polarized along that north south line. And you have just created a magnet. Yeah. And here's what I think is one of the really cooler aspects of this, is how strong your magnet is. Depends on how hard it was to get these domains to move in that direction. And the harder it is, the longer it will stay magnetized, which sort of makes sense. It's almost like that. It was so stubborn to get going, but then once you got it going in the right direction, it was then stubborn undoing that action. Right. Which kind of makes you wonder, like, over enough of a time span, will any magnetized material eventually lose its magnetism? Oh, it just left alone. Yeah. That's a good question. There are things you can do to demonstrate things. You could take a magnet and put it in a magnetic field that's polarized the opposite direction. Yeah. It's kind of mean. Yeah. You can boil it alive, which is also very mean, and heat it to the point where it loses its magnetism. Yes. The curie point. The guy in the video tested this. He had a paper clip on a string tied to the table, and then the magnet was like, a foot off, so it was just like doing and then he took a was it a Jerry Lewis magnet? Then he said, Dean, bring me a lighter. And he got a lighter and heated up the paperclip, and you see it start to shake, and then eventually it just poop fell. That is a weird story. Yeah, he demagnetized it. Yeah, he did. Using the curie point. Okay. Again, we could stop here. I think everybody understands how magnets work, right? Like, there's little magnetic domains that are in all kinds of crazy directions, and then when you expose them to a magnetic field, they line up together and they produce their own magnetic field around that magnetic material. And then there you go. It flows out of the north and into the south. Magnets. Right. I would like to see a survey. I wish you could take an instant survey of people that half of them are going, go, and half of them are like, I'm good. Right? That's all I need to know about magnets. Right. I think our listeners are pretty curious folk. Okay, so we're going deeper, and Tracy Wilson, who our site manager here, of stuff you missed in history class now. Yeah. She wrote this one, and she's so thorough. She has a very nice little pun in this section called shipping magnets. Get it? Shipping magnet. Yeah, I got it now. I didn't notice that before. Yeah, it's a pun. What she's talking about in this section? That was interesting. In that very large magnets present a lot of problems because they're super strong, and you can't just throw it on a truck and drive it across country. It'll disrupt everything. Yeah. So very specific precautions have to be taken when delivering large magnets used for certain, like, industrial applications, one of which is they have machines, because it'll pick up all this ferrous material along the way. Right. They have machines when they get there to remove all that stuff. Yeah. And I mean, imagine if you're shipping it in like a truck, and the truck is made of or has some sort of iron alloy in it, and you have a huge industrial magnet. How are you going to get that off of the truck? You're not. Exactly. So they magnetize these materials on site, typically. Right. Oh, is that what they do? That's what I understand. Or else they just rely almost exclusively on electromagnets, which become magnetic when you pass a current through I think you can say manpower. Right. Give me those ten guys. American ingenuity. That's how you do it. It stuck, sir. Right. Well, speaking of sticking, we're going to break it down to the electrons, which the atomic level this is bound to happen. Yeah. Because that's really where it all starts. Well, I was just saying, like electromagnets, they become magnetic when you pass the field of electricity through them or current and all electrical current is a flow of electrons. Movement of electrons produces electricity, and electricity and magnetism are very much related. And this is why. Because on the atomic level of a ferrous material iron, nickel, cobalt right. These are the big ones. It's called the big three. Well, let's talk specifically about iron. Okay. In an iron atom, there are around its orbit. In its orbit, there are electrons moving around. Yeah. They spin downward or upward, and typically they're paired. And when you have a pair of electrons, one spinning upward, one spinning downward, there never any other way. There's no pair of electrons that both spin in the same direction. It's always opposite. Yeah. That's called the Poly exclusion principle. It's just not possible. Right, exactly. So, in iron, you also have four unpaired electrons that all spin the same way. Now, those ones that are paired and spinning the opposite direction, they cancel one another out. But these four spinning the same way produce a magnetic field, a very tiny magnetic field, but a magnetic field nonetheless. Yeah. Right. And this is very unusual for these unpaired electrons to be spinning in the same direction. That's why it only happens in things like iron, cobalt, and nickel. Right, exactly. Yeah. That's what makes them ferromagnetic materials potentially magnetic, because they have these unpaired electrons that are spinning in a certain direction. Right. That's right. And then because these things are spinning in the same direction, they attract other Adams to kind of line up that are spinning in the same direction to line up nearby. And then those create what domains? A moment. They have a moment. Oh, yeah, I forgot the moment. It's called the orbital magnetic moment. And I get it. Maybe that's just when they realize, hey, we're all partying in the same way. We're all spinning downward. Right. We all like, slack. Yeah. And, hey, we've got a magnetic field, all of a sudden, it's small, but let's get a bunch of other ones and let's create a larger one. Right. And that moment, it describes the force, I guess, the power and the direction of the spin. Yeah. So, yeah, when you have a bunch of them having the same moment, they kind of line up around one another when iron forms. That's right. And then that causes the domain or that creates the little magnetic domains in the material. That's right. And if you notice that materials that make good magnets are the same materials that magnets attract, then it's because they attract unpaired electrons that are spinning in that direction. It's the same thing. And you can also have something called diamagnetic, which are unpaired electrons, creating a field that repels instead of attracts. Right. And then some materials don't react at all with Magnus like pine straw. I think now is the time for a word from our sponsor. All right, back to magnets, because there's still some more to go. I mean, now everyone is listening to us understands magnets on an atomic level. It's the spin of electrons. It's physics. Yeah. My favorite thing. Yeah. This one actually appealed to me more than usual, physics wise. Same here. Remember the physics of surfing? I do. All right. So people measure magnets to see how strong the magnetic field is using something called the Gauss meter. And Flux, or Webbers, are the what would you call that? Well, you measure in webbers. Okay. So Flux is a line of magnetic force coming out of it. I botched that. That's all right. Okay. So the density of the flux is measured in either Tesla or Gauss, with Tesla being 10,000 Gauss, which is pretty cool that you get a unit of measurement named after you. Oh, yeah. If you're Tesla, you better. If you're Tesla, sure. A lot of cool stuff. And you can also measure it in Weber's per square meter. But really, who wants to do that? Yes. Canada, probably. And then the magnitude of the field is measured in ampere per meter or something called orsted yeah, I like Orested. I'm a fan of Orested. And I also like Flux. And Tesla is pretty awesome too. So where do we use magnets besides pizza reminders or doorbells or doorbells or speakers? We use them to if you were in the cassette tapes back in the day, brother, you were into magnets. Yeah. We also use them, again, encompasses burglar alarms, electric motors. We use them to provide torque. Yeah. Car speedometers. If you have an old fashioned cathode ray tube television set, you're using magnets. Yep. Did you listen to cassettes? Sure, man. I grew up in the 80s. Okay. I wasn't quite sure you're a little younger, but I didn't know I was a late adopter. Of cassettes? Well, no, of everything, because what I would do is I would have a big collection and be like, I got all these records, right. So I was late to cassettes, and then I had all these cassettes. I didn't want to switch to CDs until all my cassettes got stolen. Oh, yeah. And I was like, all right, I guess I'll get CDs now. Yes. I'm going CDs. Yeah. No, I was there for the big transition from cassettes to CDs. Sure. They were across the board. $20 CD in the big box too. Look at that. Maglev trains. Yeah, we talked about this. We have a cool one of our little 1 minute live action shorts online. Maybe I'll post this when we release this. But the Maglev train system and a lot of roller coasters and things like that use super magnets. I don't remember that one. Yeah, the Maglev train uses it to propel the train forward. Yeah, roller coasters use magnets for breaking a lot of times. Oh, yeah. Like new ones. Yeah, the good ones. You don't remember that one? No. We did, like, a dozen of them in four days. Okay. I don't remember that one. I'll send it to you. Thank you. The magnetosphere is a part of our atmosphere. I guess it's outside of the atmosphere, but it surrounds Earth in a protective layer that protects it from charged ions known as solar winds. And when these solar winds come in contact with the magnetosphere, you get something that's called the northern or southern lights. That's what that is. I knew we talked about that at some point in another short. That's right. Yeah. And then our favorite, of course, the Wonder machine, would not be possible without magnets because it is magnetic resonance imaging. Right. It can just be resonance imaging without it. Yeah, there's no fun in that. And then doctors sometimes use pulse electromagnetic fields to actually heal broken bones that haven't healed correctly. It's amazing. I looked into this. They have no idea how it works on a molecular level. Oh, really? All they know is that if you expose bone or tissue, I think bones, more bone and muscle maybe, are easier to grow to an electromagnetic pulse. It grows even if it hasn't healed after surgery or any other procedure, if you hit it with an electromagnetic pulse, you'll get a reaction. And they are figuring out how to put this in garments for astronauts. Oh, really? Yeah, because you suffer substantial bone loss on a very long microgravity flight. So they're figuring out how to weave it into their clothes so their clothes can blast them with an electromagnetic pulse to make sure their bone density keeps up. Wow. Yeah, that's pretty cool. But they don't know why it works. They just know it works. Cows are pretty happy they're magnets because there's this horrific thing called traumatic. We'll just call it hardware disease. And this is when cows eat small metal objects that are in their food. And it's pretty awful that that happens, but luckily, they have a cow magnet to feed them, and it, I guess, gathers up all this stuff, and then they poop it out. I'll bet that's horrible to poop out. Isn't that what happens? Or it punctures the magnet? Yeah, I mean, they poop it out. They poop the magnet out. I don't know. Surely it doesn't just stay in the body, does it? I don't know. All right, I'm going to have to look into that some more. And people are known to put their arms into cow's rear. Yeah, no, some of them have a hole cut in their side, remember? So they can examine their stomach. Yeah, the one with the porthole? Yeah. That's pretty cool. I'm going to try this one. Traumatic reticulo pericarditis. You practice that beforehand. Well done. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. Some people might think practicing hard words before you do a professionally released audio program is a good thing. If a human swallows a magnet, that's not good. Yeah, you don't want to do that. Cows intestines and stomachs are different than humans intestines and stomachs. And if we swallow, especially more. Than one magnet, they will basically clamp your entrails together and you will be in big trouble and you'll have to undergo surgery to have them removed. Yeah. So that's no good. Parents be cautioned to when your kids are playing with magnets because kids like to swallow things they shouldn't swallow. Yeah. And since we talked about electromagnetic pulses being capable of spurring bone loss burning bone loss. Spurring bone growth. Thank you. You would think that people wearing, like, magnetic bracelets or magnetic insoles are getting some sort of benefit. There's no study that's ever shown that those things actually help. Although there's a lot of people out there who believe in static magnetic therapy, which is just a magnet on your skin. There's no pulse or anything going off. And they think that possibly the people who are adherence to this think that it's either attracting iron and the hemoglobin that kind of makes sense to improve circulation, or it has some sort of effect on the cellular structure in the body. Right. And that's why it helps your back. Insoles help your back or bracelet helps your arthritis. Yeah. But again, there's no studies that suggest this. Well, it's big money. Americans alone spend about 500 million per year on this kind of thing, and worldwide, about $5 billion a year on magnetic treatment with the B. Yeah. That's a lot of dough. It is. And then there was one more thing. Magnetized. Drinking water is a thing now to treat ailments, and I think that they have not shown in clinical trials that that's been proven either. Correct. Most of the minerals in drinking water are not ferromagnetic to begin with. It wouldn't have anything to do with it. And they found that in clinical trials, a lot of the positive benefits come from placebo, maybe, or a passage of time, or maybe the fact that these insole cushionings are just better made, more padded to begin with. There's also apparently a device that removes hard water minerals from water using magnets, but apparently, again, it's not really doing anything as far as Consumer Reports in a two year study. Yeah. We had a water softener when I lived in Yuma. Yeah. And I'd never heard of that. And I was like, what? And it's like, it's in the garage. It's where it looked like a hot water heater and it soften the water, whatever that means. Yeah. Do you know what it did? Soften the water? Yes. But I think I remember asking my sister what Hardwater did, and she was like, oh, you could tell the difference. I can't remember. It makes your skin real dry, I think. Yeah. I don't remember. So that's hardwater. Everyone, if you want to learn more about that, type the word magnets into the search bar@houseworks.com. It will bring up this awesome and exhaustive article. Also, if you're interested in doorbells, type that word in the search bar, too. And since I said search bar twice, it means we go straight to listener mail. Yeah. I'm going to call this military shout out. We don't do shout outs that often. Sometimes we do. We get a lot of requests. We don't feel bad people if we don't do your shout out. This is from Trevor. Hey, guys, my name is Trevor and yes, that is spelled with a b and not a v and that is a long story that I'll tell you you would like, but that's not why I'm writing it. I'm currently serving in the US. Armed forces and I am stationed overseas. My wife and I recently welcomed my daughter into the world. Congratulations, trevor and wife. And I got to spend some time with them, although not as much as I would like to, obviously, before I had to come back overseas. It's been a really long, tough trip being away from them and even harder on our marriage. I work long hours and when I come home to talk to my wife, I really dread talking about work and she really hates talking about herself all the time. So that's when I bring up topics that you guys talk about on the show. I've listened for years and I have turned her onto them as well. And I just want to thank you guys and ask if you could give a shout out to her in the mail. Her name is Tony and I so Trevor and Tony, Trevor, thanks for your service, obviously. And both of you, thanks for hanging in there as a military couple. It's tough when you're away for that long and it's quite a sacrifice. My sister and her husband, he's a career Marine helicopter pilot, as I mentioned before. Yeah. He's been to Afghanistan, right? Yeah. And they go for long tours, six and eight months at a time. And you do enough of those in your life and you realize you're spending years away from your husband or wife totaled up and family and daughters and sons. So it's tough stuff. So shouting out to you guys. Hang in there. Yeah, thanks. February and Tony. That's pretty awesome that we're keeping their marriage happy. We're providing sustenance to talk about it's. Awesome. Exactly. If you want to let us know how we have helped your marriage, we're very interested in that. You can also try us on a shout out again. We don't do it very often, but it's worth a shot. If you really think so, sure. You can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on Facebook.com stuff you shouldn't, send us an email to stuff podcast@discovery.com and join us at our home on the web, www.stuffyoutnow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseofworks.com. This episode of Stuff You Should Know is brought to you by Jackthredscom. Summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon music that's so good. It's criminal. Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, Morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Ercart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this chart topping series will have you hooked before you know it. Listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | ||
How Gypsies Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-gypsies-work | Gypsies were called that because they were long ago mistaken as Egyptians. Even their more appropriate name, Roma, is a misnomer since they're not from Romania. Find out about the mysterious history of this nomadic and genuinely misunderstood ethnic group | Gypsies were called that because they were long ago mistaken as Egyptians. Even their more appropriate name, Roma, is a misnomer since they're not from Romania. Find out about the mysterious history of this nomadic and genuinely misunderstood ethnic group | Tue, 06 May 2014 14:16:28 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2014, tm_mon=5, tm_mday=6, tm_hour=14, tm_min=16, tm_sec=28, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=126, tm_isdst=0) | 42248636 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, everybody. If you want a great website, you want to do it yourself with no must, no fuss, turn to Squarespace. They have everything to sell anything. They have the tools that you need to get your business off the ground, including ecommerce templates, inventory management, simple checkout process, process, and secure payments. And if you're into analytics, hold on to your hats, because Squarespace has everything that you need. Just head to squarespace. comSK and you can get a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code s YSK to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. You know you're a pet mom when you plan your vacation around your pet. At Halo, we get it because we're pet moms, too. We make natural, high quality pet food that's rooted in science. It's the world's best food for the world's best kids. Learn more@halopets.com. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopourscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W chuck Bryant jerry Roland. Just a couple of nomads on the road. Yeah, with our trinkets and our recording, you know, gypsies, tramps and Thieves. You like my share? Yeah. I learned it from Jack. From willing Grace. Oh, yeah. Was that his share? Well, there was this one really classic scene where he meets Cher in a restaurant, but he thinks it's like a shared drag queen impersonator. So he calls her like, Mr. Sister and starts giving her pointers on how to do a good share. Yeah, he always does the hair flip. I love that show. It holds up. It's in reruns now. It's just as good. But I had this horrible share song in my head while I was studying, and it just wouldn't go away. So I listened to it and now I'm like, no, it just got worse. Is there a modern PC version that's roma tramps and thieves? No, but in my head you can also say gypsies, franks and beans, and it's like kind of neutral. It's better than tramps and thieves. Good point. But the term gypsy wait, is that a good point? It's a terrible point. Okay, don't patronize me. Gypsy. So the word itself we're going to try not to use because it's a pejorative term. It is at the very least, it's now considered an ethnic slur. Yeah, and in part because it's associated with the concept of being gypsy. Like if somebody really doesn't give you a fair deal or something like that, or that rips you off or something like that, you've been gypped. It's short for Gypsied. You've dealt with somebody who came from gypsy. Right. Not the other way around. Right. Because we believe it came from Egypt. Right. It was a misapplication misunderstanding in the Greek Isles by Josh Clark romance novel. All right, so let's get into this. We're not going to say gypsies like you said. Actually, that's not entirely true. We're probably going to forget once in a while because we're both raised on shell. Silverstein, do you remember? Yeah, you may reminded me of this one. The Gypsies are Coming. Yeah, which is very difficult to find. The original version of The Gypsies Are Coming, which is a poem, michelle Silverstein's where the sidewalk ends, because before his death, and I believe some time in the 90s or early 2000s that long ago, but yeah, I remember he changed it from the Gypsies are Coming to the Gucci or the Gooey's. Oh, that's nice. Because he felt that it was meant toward gypsies. And it kind of is, because it's about child stealing Gypsies, which is a rumor that has been attached to Gypsies forever. They steal children and use them as props in baking and pickpocket schemes. Yeah, there are a lot of, I guess, rumors about the culture and a lot of them are founded and a lot of them are unfounded. Yeah. None of it's just like black and white one way or the other. The Gypsies aren't just some completely kicked around, put upon ethnic group and at the same time they're not just a bunch of thieving violin playing marauders. Right? Yeah. So anyway, to get to the point, we'll say Roma as much as we can. Yeah, roma or Romani, and we'll even explain why we call them Roma shortly. Sounds good. Well, we just missed international Roma Day was on April 8 and that's been around since 1990. And John Kerry, Secretary of State Kerry, came out and had some nice words to say about celebrating the rich romantic culture and give them a break. Yeah, sort of, but I didn't know there was an International Roma Day, so I don't know if it's sticking in like the mass public. Well, you know, it takes a little time to gain traction and it's been a while. It has been since the were like a big era of ethnic and minority group, like saying, hey, we're here and we're standing up for our rights and you can't kick us around anymore. Right. Good for them. We're owning our identity. And the Roma did it too. It's been a little while. These days there are around 12 million Roma, and when we say scattered, they are scattered. And that's what they're known for, is not dropping down permanent roots and moving along. And one reason is because they've often been forced through the centuries to move along until today. Yeah. There's. Basically, the Roma sociologist, the authority on Romani culture and people. Doctor Romani. Dr. Finnesca isabella Finesca. She basically points out, like, tell me another group that just willfully picks up steaks and leaves all the time because they just feel like it at their whim. She's like, that doesn't exist. They move largely mostly because they've been forced to time and time again. Yeah, I think humans desire to root down that's sort of what we've based our success on is people is staying in one place and fortifying sedentaryness. I don't know about sedentary. Getting couch locked. Yeah, exactly. That's your new favorite term. Yeah. They are kind of spread all over the EU. They're scattered to the wind, and they do move quite frequently. But it's like you said, it's not necessarily because they're nomadic. They are nomadic people, but not necessarily because they want to be. But the problem is, wherever they go, virtually everywhere they go in the European Union, they are kind of forced out eventually at some point. Yeah. I sent you the article today, and it is literally in today's news. How Paris? Those elite note from chief of police in Paris that said, on the orders of his superiors, police are to day and night locate Roma families living in the street and systematically evict them, even though that is supposedly illegal in France and it's a chic area of Paris, and they don't want people in poverty. And a lot of the Romani people are still living in poverty. Pretty much all of them are, and I think that makes it right. All of the Romani except for the Gypsy kings, the Band are living in poverty? Pretty much. The Gypsy kings, they are actual gypsies. Are they really? Yes. I thought they were from Mexico. No, I thought so, too, man. They're from andalusia Spain and their parents were all Romani that were basically kicked out of Spain by Franco. They're like legitimate Roma people. The band. Isn't it cool? And the only ones with any money, right? Pretty much. And I'm, like, wonder what they do they still have that Roma thing to them, or are they just, like, see you guys later? No, I think from what I've read, the Roma people embrace their heritage. Yeah, it seems like it. I mean, almost to a detrimental degree. Well, last September, Manuel Vault, the interior minister at the time in France, declared that Roma gypsies were incompatible with the French way of life and should return home. Yeah, Europe's really going crazy lately. Like, the Dutch are forcing all of their immigrants to learn Dutch or get out, basically. Do they realize how hard Dutch is? Yeah, maybe that's the point. Okay. Yeah. And apparently there was, like, a huge push in the sun newspaper in Britain to get rid of Gypsy beggars from the street. Yes. The Roma in particular have kind of been the butt of all this stuff. It's not just France. I saw an article where in Rome two Roma camps in Rome were rated. All of the people were dragged out, taken to the airport, put on a plane to Bosnia. Wow. And a couple of them were underage kids whose parents weren't in the group at the time. So imagine if you come home from a day of trading cars and your kid is in Bosnia because the cops just rounded them up because they didn't want you to live on the street there any longer. Trading cars? Yeah. That's what they're into big time. They still trade horses, too. Yeah, but they school among them. They also trade cars, too. They'll go to Germany and buy a car for cheap and then take it to Romania and sell it for a little bit of premium. And they make some money that way. That's called Craigslist, buddy. Kind of Romani craigslist. Good for them. So the point is, wherever they go in the EU, they end up getting the bombs rushed, basically. Yeah. I mean, it's called they call it the gypsy problem still to this day in the European Union, the one place that they can kind of call home is Romania. Yeah. And I think Transylvania, too, has a pretty robust, fairly settled population, I understand. I'm sure they do. And they were led there, actually, by a purchase by a guy named Vladracool in the 15th century. I think I've heard of that guy. Yeah. So let's talk about how the Roma ended up in their adopted homeland of Romania. Where did they come from originally? Because apparently even they aren't certain. Well, no, that's the one thing they're certain about, apparently, is where they come from. But that's about it, because there's a high literacy rate, so there's not a lot of record keeping, not a lot of genealogy throughout the years. So a lot of it's just kind of lost to history. But I think they did settle on the fact that they came from India. Josh okay. Which, you know, you're bank coin. That is true. And it took a very long time. So the Roma said, we're from India. They know that. Now, no one knew whether that was correct or not. They were called Gypsies because people thought they were from Egypt. They were in Romania, but they crossed the Balkans. It was really just very confusing. They were just basically this nomadic group of dark skinned people who spoke their own language and didn't practice the prevailing religions, so everybody just hated them. Well, finally, in the 18th century, a Hungarian scholar, theologian, I believe, decided he wanted to kind of dig into Romani language and figure out what the deal was with it. And he found, quite surprisingly, that a lot of it contains Sanskrit. Yeah. So that is going to put you in northern India. And then they did some genetic testing to kind of get that stuff confirmed and basically came up with the fact that they migrated out of India about 700 Ad. But the dates get a little hazy, for sure. Well, some people think that it's 780. This is far back as I think anyone's willing to go. But then I think a lot of historians agree that they're actually descended from a specific group who are ejected from northern India because of raids from Persia around 1000 to 1027 Ad. Now, was that with the spread of Islam? Yeah. Mohammed of Ghazni. Yeah, he wanted to spread Islam around, and so he brought in, well, the hindus organized a group of people to fight that, obviously to fight the Muslims. And they had an army called the Raj Puts. I think that's as good as any. Or is the J silent R-A-J-P-U-T? No, it's like Maharaja. Okay, right. So Raj Puts, maybe. Yeah, that sounds better. Yeah. And they defeated the army I'm sorry. They were defeated and then taken captive. And then another group from Persia came along, the Seljuks, and they conquered them and then took the Raj Puts out of Northern India and into what is now Turkey. Right. The diaspora started then, supposedly. Yeah. That was where they think the Romani originally came from. They were displaced Indians fighting to protect their homeland. And basically, when they were ejected from northern India by Mohammed of Ghazni and his people, they became slaves. And then when Mohammed of Ghazni was defeated by the Seljuks, they became slaves for the Seljuks in Turkey, pretty much put upon from the get go. Right. So they were slaves serving class laborers for many centuries, and they finally made it out, I guess, once the Ottomans defeated, now once the Christians, I guess, went in during the Crusades and defeated the Turks. Okay. And Istanbul was converted from Constantinople. The Rajputs, who were by now the Roma, were moved from Turkey across the Balkans into present day Transylvania Wallacia, and a large number of them were purchased by Vladrachcool, also known as Vlad Tepes or Vladimpaler or Count Dracula. He owned some of the first Romani people. Do you know how many across? I think like 500 or 5000, something like that. Holy cow. Yeah. And they suffered tremendously. Anyone who worked for Vlad suffered tremendously. We'll have to do an episode on him. He hated dust on the shelves. He did. He fly into a rage. It's interesting, though, to see the religion these days, the Roma. Like, it's kind of all over the map. There are some Christians, there are some Muslims right. And some Hindu. I don't know. Yeah, I think there's not, like, a single religion for an ethnic group. Well, I guess it's not the weirdest thing. Well, no, but I think what happened was there was a group of them, and then the group became further and further fragmented, and so you can take all of the language and the religious police and all of this stuff that is Romani culture, and you're probably going to find some similar elements that you can all trace back to about 1400 Ad. When they crossed over into the Balkans and then started to spread from there. Yeah, but that makes a lot of sense, though, because apparently even the tribes today speak different versions of the same language, so they don't have, like, a codified language, even though they're pushing for that. Right, they are. They think that might help. Yeah. So they're in Romania, right? What's now? Present day Romania. Yeah. And for the next 400 years, they are slaves in Romania until Romania abolishes slavery. And even now, that's still basically the home base. Romania is like, okay, we'll take care of you guys. Sorry about the last four centuries. Right. And no one else in the EU will, but Romania does provide for their Romani population more than any other country there. But they were subjugated there, too, weren't they? Or at least discriminated against? Yeah, they were slaves for 400 years. Well, I mean, after that, though, they had a hard time. They weren't served in stores. Oh, yes. It still goes on today in Romania. Okay. I thought they were a little, like, more accepting. No, I think it's like, kind of that doesn't mean that Romania is just, like, Roma loving. Right. They treat them slightly less badly than the rest of your Roma tolerant. Right, okay. But because of the fact that they weren't allowed servicing stores and maybe they had low literacy and they couldn't get jobs, no one wants to hire them. It was sort of this cyclical thing where they had to resort to thievery and deception, and it's just how do you build yourself up as a people when you can't work? You still need to eat. So how do you eat? You maybe steal something. And so it's just sort of the constant cycle that to this day, they haven't been able to break out of. No. Yeah. It is kind of a self perpetuating thing. Like, they have a bad reputation, in part because they do behave badly, and they behave badly in part because they have a bad reputation, so they can't leg up, like, thousands of years. It's unbelievable. Yeah. And I think one of the probably the hallmarks of Romani culture is it just won't assimilate. They just don't assimilate into whatever culture they're in. They're visitors, they're guests or parasites or leeches, depending on where you live and how you feel about them. But they are not interested in becoming part of your culture where you live. Yeah. They seem pretty private and only concerned about their tribe. Right. And the thing is, the problem with that is that tends to make the majority of a culture very nervous. Why aren't you eating our Liberty cabbage and Freedom fries? Like, what's your problem? I bet they love cabbage. Why don't you want to work nine to five? And that kind of stuff. So when any group won't assimilate and exist on the fringes, seemingly by their own accord, that definitely raises a lot of suspicion in the majority culture. Unless you live in Montana. Yeah, it's true. So maybe they play well there. They fit right in. I have friends in Montana. They know I'm kidding. Okay, so right after this message break, we're going to talk about some of the atrocities they suffered during World War II. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but we're pretty excited about summer. What's not to like? School's out, the sun is shining. And best of all, there's downtime for days. That's right. And that's where true Crime podcasts on Amazon Music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. Yeah. And with so many killer shows like Morbid, my Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. Prepare to go deep and become your own detective in the world of serial crimes and unsolved mysteries. Get lost hearing spooky stories with a combination of detailed research and lighthearted analysis. Whether you're a lifetime fan of true crime or you just feel like being entertained while doing the dishes at night, there's a podcast out there for you to download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today. What if you were a major transit system with billions of passengers taking millions of trips every year? You aren't about to let any cyber attacks slow you down. So you partner with IBM to build a security architecture to keep your data network and applications protected. Now you can tackle threats so they don't bring you to a grinding halt and everyone's going places, including you. Let's create cybersecurity that keeps your business on track. IBM, let's create learn more@ibm.com. All right. It's World War II. Yeah. The Nazis are doing their thing, and they are not just persecuting Jewish people. They are persecuting anyone that is a minority that they don't agree with. In the Roma were some of the first ones that they targeted and by what's the word, by percentage of their total population, maybe even suffered more than the Jewish people. As far as half of the Roma people or something were executed, I think it was half of a million were in Germany or in the lands that Germany conquered. Yeah. And there's a documentary apparently, out, and I read an article on it, but they didn't even give the name of it. But these filmmakers in Toronto, Jewish filmmakers, made a documentary about the Romani Holocaust, because it's just not a story you ever hear. But the filmmakers, Tom Rasky and Lynn Bender, like I said, were Jewish Holocaust survivors, children of Holocaust survivors, and the director and Romo musician actually helped make it. So they are still the musical people, not just the gypsy kings. And we don't know the name of the documentary. I couldn't find it. It's a terrible article. It was terrible. So, yeah, during World War II, the Roma and the Jews were the only two ethnic groups that were targeted because of their ethnicity by the Nazis. And, yeah, they suffer tremendously. And they have a word for it. It means the great devouring. It's a poremos. Porremos. Yeah. It means the great devouring. Yeah. It can also mean rape, apparently, which kind of puts a button on that experience. Right. And I did more reading about it, too. Apparently they really annoyed the SS as well because they would not go quietly like they would say. They would have them dig their own graves, stand naked in front of them just so they could chew them and push them in. And he said that they wouldn't just stand there and take their death gracefully. They would yell and scream and run around and try and dodge bullets. And I guess it was pretty sensible. Well, yeah, exactly. But I guess that's part of the survivor in them because they've been booted all around. They got to do what they can, right? This guy is pointing a gun at me. I'm going to try and get out of here, right? Even if I'm naked. Sad. And the rest of the majority culture was like, no, you just stand still, right? What's wrong with you? Unbelievable. So one of the more shameful, but also telling things about the Roma Holocaust was the way it was treated afterwards. It was basically unmentioned at the Nuremberg trials, which were to address the Holocaust as a whole and just kind of ignored, like, this one whole thing because it was the Roma, apparently. And then one SS officer in history was ever prosecuted or prosecuted for crimes against Roma. Just one person during World War II. Just one person, even though half a million Roma died. So why, my friend, I don't think we posed the question, why did they think they came from Egypt to begin with? Oh, yeah, well, apparently it was just a complete accident. Well, they came from northern India originally, and a lot of Roma have a dark complexion. They look the part maybe a little to an untrained eye. Sure. And they ended up settling in the Greek Isles for a little bit at some point. Some Roma did. And around there, the place where they settled, the place where they came from along the Adriatic had been known as Little Egypt. So the people in Peloponnesia thought, oh, well, they're Egyptians, so they started calling them Gypsies, clearly, because they live in Little Egypt and they have dark complexity. That's interesting. So what about these days? It's interesting history, but these days they still, like we said, a lot of them are still musicians. A lot of them still pick up camp and move. Some of them still trade horses. They're known for being metal workers. Well, a lot of them have trades that were learned as slaves in Romania that have been passed down and are still practiced today. So like, for example, some group that were copper workers as slaves in Romania. Their ancestors were the groups today do scrap metal. That's what they deal with. So they know what they're doing with metal. A lot of the trades that a Roma clan does for a living is passed down from their days of slaves in Romania. Yeah. And the fact that they're still musicians today is definitely one of those because they found they could make a few bucks by even trying to appear more exotic and do performances. And look at us where the weird exotic Roma people are, the gypsies. Look at how colorful our clothes are. Exactly. And I'm playing my finger tambourine while you're getting your pocket picked, perhaps out. Well, that's something that happened. So was it because apparently the media is totally cool with just perpetuating lies and untruths about the Roma, and it's not to be trusted any more than they purport the Roma shouldn't be. What do you mean? The media? The media reports in that article I read in The Guardian by Dr. Phineska, the Aroma Authority. Right. She points out that some British paper said that a Roma woman who they named by name named her son Lucifer, which is apparently wholly untrue. But this is in, like, the 90s that papers were printing this. So apparently the Roma have always been this group that you can kick around and everybody's cool with, basically. Right. With you kicking them around. So media reports of the stuff that they do should be taken with a grain of salt. Yeah, I think so. Because they're very often conflated. Yeah, but the point this article makes this is by Kristen Konger of stuff Mom Never Told you. She does make the point that a lot of it is reputation, but a lot of it is earned reputation because, again, they were kind of forced from town to town, and they were poverty stricken, and so they may have had to pick some pockets here and there to put food in the mouth. I hear you. I'm just saying don't believe everything you read in the papers. Yeah. Sociologically speaking, the Roma constitute what's called the middlemen minority, which is a group that refuses to assimilate, but still it is discriminated against, but still maintains enough communication or contact with the larger culture that they can benefit economically from that. Like, they can still sell you a car. Got you. Upgrade you a car. Sure, they're paternalistic, so it's super old school. Like, the women are expected to stay home and work the house, and the men may or may not work at all. Young girls, they still have arranged marriages, even to this day. Getting their daughters matched up with another person of the Romani culture is important to them, apparently. Teenagers as well. Yeah, like as young as twelve. A little weird. Is that right? Yeah. And because of the illiteracy rate, I think it's especially hard on young women. They don't care very much about educating them. Right. And then employment is just kind of a side thing you do when you need money, for the most part. Part of that is that's just kind of part of Romani culture. But it asks the question, is that part of Romani culture because they haven't been able to get a job, or do they just not work? And that's part of Romani culture. Right. Which side of the Coin has actually created this situation? But they apparently were given jobs under communism in Eastern Europe and went to work in factories and things like that. Yeah, for a little while. But then after communism disintegrated, the Roma were fired first. Apparently. They were the first ones out the door. Yeah. They were like, the boss is no longer the boss. You're fired. I'm firing you. Yeah. And then, of course, from that rose more complaints of stealing and thievery. And a lot of it, too, isn't just illegal activities, but a lot of begging and panhandling and stuff that apparently in cheek districts in Paris is unsightly. So it sounds like from this description that Romani women do almost all of the work, especially around the household. Yes, they do. And the men may or may not even have jobs. Right. But they do exist in clans, and these clans do have tribunals to handle disputes. Sure. And the men kind of run all that stuff, like the government of the village or group, whereas the women are running the household stuff. But the men are apparently totally, clearly 100% dominant. Yeah, I think that's true. Unless it's just something we read that's not because I read one of the filmmakers for that documentary said, you know, we're told that they aren't even that nomadic anymore. I'm like, but that flies in the face of everything I've read. Well, in this article as well, it says a lot of them want to settle down and are trying to establish routes in places, but they get kicked out eventually. I think they fared pretty well here in the States, apparently, so I don't know about like I'm not saying they're rising to CEO positions or anything, but I think they haven't been kicked around like they have been in the EU. Yes. At least. Well, America loves its traveling romanticized thing, the open road. Yes, sure. That kind of thing. So anybody who's on the open road is romanticized. A little bit more here, I think, than in Europe. I think you're right. This takes a toll, though. All the poverty and the moving around and the lack of education is going to take a toll on any ethnicity. And it's definitely happening with the Romani because they apparently compared to similar populations in Slovakia, Ireland, Czech Republic and Bulgaria died about six to ten years earlier, and infant mortality rates are double and triple of those in surrounding ethnic groups. Which is disturbing. Right. Which you can say, oh, that's right. Well, they're poverty stricken. Sure. They don't eat the most nutritious meals around because they're poverty stricken. Yeah. They don't have easy access to healthcare on the other side of the Coin, apparently. They also typically shun local medicine in favor of their own medicine, which is often homeopathic, apparently. Right. And so, for example, tuberculosis is just like a fatal disease, even though if you step outside of. Camp into town. It's not right. You just go to that hospital right there. It's not yeah. Here's the illiteracy rate of Romani girls can't read. Yeah. And apparently, most Romani kids of either gender don't complete high school. So all of this, the fact that they are poverty stricken, that they have lower life expectancy, higher infant mortality rates, lower education, higher literacy rates, it's tough to get a leg up, especially when the entire world basically looks at you like you are never to be trusted. Yeah. So, what do you do? I will tell you what you do after the sad break. Hey, Chuck, it's summer, which means school is out, sun's shining, the daylight lasts longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story, isn't there? There sure is. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, you can tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right Media. That's right. Part true crime and part comedy, my Favorite Murder takes you on a journey through small town mysteries and major laughs, all in the same week. That's Right hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark Banter with each other, sharing their favorite true crime tales and explore unique hometown stories from friends and fans alike. And they're both great, and it's a fun show. And you should listen. So listen to new episodes of my favorite murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. What if you were a global energy company with operations in Scotland, technologists in India, and customers, all on different systems? You need to pull it together. So you call in IBM and Red Hat to create an open hybrid cloud platform. Now, data is available anywhere, securely, and your digital transformation is helping find new ways to unlock energy around the world. Let's create a hybrid cloud that can change in industry. IBM, let's create learn more@ibm.com. I'm dying to know. All right. You have the solution. Yeah. Well, it's a long run. We already talked about the solution. Okay, but you organize, you get together and you say, hey, we are this group of people. We have a history, we have a past. Because Dr. Finska, Isabella fanesca, points out quite rightly, I think the easiest way to dehumanize people is to strip them of any context, any history. Yeah. And that means that the aroma are ripe for exploitation when it comes to that dehumanization, because they really don't have a history. Like, historians think maybe that they came out of northern India 1000 years ago. Yeah, they probably did, but it's not entirely confirmed. Right? Can I read this quote by her? Yeah. It's, like, the saddest thing I've ever read. And this is by phonesca. The Roma have no heroes, no myths of origin, of a great liberation of the founding of a nation, of a promised land. And that's, like, pretty much puts the cherry on top. Right. Since pretty much every other culture on the planet does have that. It makes them appear shiftless, aimless, lazy, like so lazy they don't even care about their own culture. So how can anybody else care about their culture? Well, finally some Roma got together in the said, we're going to start being Romani activists. Like we're misunderstood. And I think from this interaction inside and out, and the separation between us and the rest of the world, this misunderstanding is creating some self fulfilling prophecies. Yeah. Self perpetuating myths. And they got together and said, okay, we come from northern India. India, we want you to sponsor, like, a congress. Yeah, they did. And they did. Yeah, it was very awesome. The first World Romani Congress, and there were Romani from 14 different countries, and they picked out a flag in an anthem, which sounds so weird that you would have to do that in the seventies. I bet it's exuberant. I'm sure it was. No, the anthem. Oh, you think? I'll bet that Jesse King can play it really? Well, it probably sounds like Beirut. You know that band? He sounds like Gypsy ish yeah. A romantic. Yeah. It was a big unifying moment, and a rare unifying moment for the people in 1971. And because they had the sponsorship of India, though, the UN had to say had to maybe they really wanted to officially recognize them as an ethnic group in 1978. So that was a victory seven years later. Yeah. Wouldn't you say? Sure. Well, what's sad, though, is, I guess one of the more prevalent proposals for getting Romani, like a leg up, is for them to assimilate culturally. Apparently nothing is ever really going to change until they are willing to assimilate culturally. And that's kind of like the crux of the matter. The problem is if you start to assimilate, you lose your culture. Yes. Which is happening somewhat. They're already having a hard time holding on to their dialect because of its fractured nature with the different tribes. But like you said, assimilation, it's a bit of a sad thing. You let go of your own past that's already checkered. So I don't know, would that mean the end of the Romani? Well, I mean, you can also make the case that the Chinese have been middlemen minority, jewish people have been middlemen minority in different places. Any group that comes to a new place and settles and then just kind of maintains its ethnic identity for a while is a middleman minority. And you can look around and say, well, Chinese have assimilated into the US. Pretty fully. Yeah. But you still understand there's such a thing as Chinese ethnic and cultural identity. Yeah. There's still a Chinatown in most major cities, right. So I don't know, maybe they'll be like romantic town in San Francisco. 100 years from now in San Francisco, the president will be romantic. You never know. Who knows? But it won't happen apparently. I guess that's the deal that's on the table. Yes. We'll take care of you, but you have to stop being outside fringe dwelling weirdos. Well, and until they're like this whole Paris deal, the reason why they're shuffling them out of this one district is because they were shuffled out of another district. Yeah. And it happens on a macro scale as well. Yeah, just within the city, within Europe as a whole. Well, I can't remember the lady's name, but one of the French bureaucrats said, we just need to get them back to where they came from. No, back to Romania. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's like really? He just said that. It's 2014. Yeah, well, plus, also, it shows a little bit of historic illiteracy. Yeah, but do you want to talk about other terms for them? Depending on where they are? Yeah, sure. So, in the UK, they call them travelers. What else? In Rome? In Spain they're called guitanos. So Gypsy kings are technically guitanos. Okay. Let's see. In Germany and Italy, they call them sinto. I can't believe I thought the Gypsy kings were from Mexico. That's pretty ignorant. No, I think most people thought that who aren't, like, in the world music, but have heard of the Gypsy kings or whatever, they play huge guitars. Okay, thank you. I'm with you on that one. I just didn't want to be the white guy. It's like they're Mexican, right? I don't think it's like that. Okay, so that's the Gypsy kings. You got anything else on Gypsies? On Roma? Man, I'm sorry. I know, but the title of the article is How Gypsies Work, and I think it'll attract listeners because people I don't think a lot of people understand what the heck it is. I didn't what, Roma? Yeah. Well, it makes you think, like well, they're from Rome. Romania. No. I wonder if that means that Romania is from Rome. This is one of the more confusing episodes we've done, as it turns out. If you want to learn more about the Roma or Romani, don't type those words, type Gypsy into the search bar@houseoffworks.com, and it will bring up this article. And I said search bar, which means it's time for listing or mail. This is a question posed to us from Josh Roberts of Washington, D. C. Hey, guys, I'm a big fan. I found the podcast last year and downloaded a few episodes, but it caught my interest and ended up going back to the beginning, and I've listened to every episode on itunes. Josh, I don't know if you know this, but we have a lot more episodes than that, my friend. Yeah, I know that. Are you talking to Josh Roberts? I got you. Not Josh Clark. Yeah, we have a whole page now with all of our episodes on our website@station.com. Itunes features the most recent 301 episodes, and we have, like, 630 something episodes. So you may know that, but maybe not go back and look for the old ones. They're pretty funny. There's some good ones in there. Yeah, not the real old ones, but after maybe 50, they really started to get good and stop talking so fast like it's just a total jackass. And we left the cave that we recorded in. Yeah, the can. Okay. So he's riding because he has an important question to ask. Imagine that time travel is real and you can go to any time place in all of history, and you could bring one thing with you. My question is, where would you go and what would you bring? I've been asking people this question since I was 16. Now I'm 42 years old, and I've had many interesting and some disturbing answers. About 25% are money making ploys, like the old Back to the Future, bringing the Sports almanac. Many people talk about going back to Mozart or Beethoven's time and bringing a recording device. And then, of course, other notable answers include shooting Hitler, stopping the murder of JFK or MLK. My favorite answer is going back to the late 1400s with a battleship and making sure the Europeans never reach the Americas. So we have to answer this. Now. My question to Josh Roberts, is this something that are you going to go come back to present daytime? Because what good would it go do to go record Beethoven if you're stuck there with the recording of Beethoven? Oh, yeah, there's a caveat. So if you can come back to present daytime. I've thought about this. I haven't had the benefit of thinking, just keep thinking. I think I might go back to the time of Jesus in biblical times because I've well documented my constant struggle with my religious upbringing over the years. Yeah, you're going to go to the source and be like, I'm going to go to the source, and I'm taking a video camera with unlimited amounts of recording space. Okay. Let's say so an SD card. Yeah, a bunch of them. Okay. And I can bring this back. And I think it would delight everyone. I think Christians would be delighted because you have real footage of Sherman on the mountains. I think delighted might be understating the reaction you would get. It would be over the moon about having original recordings of Jesus doing his thing. I would think so. And I think it would also be helpful to just sort of sort out what the deal was and say, you know, what are these stories allegory? Did they really happen? Am I going to go back and see people walking on the water and come back and say, hey, you know what? It's all absolutely true, everyone. I think it would be like the greatest discovery, and religion has had such an impact on world history. So that's my boom. That's what I'm doing. It's a good one. Thanks. Let's see. I should have sent this to you ahead of time. Yeah. I feel bad for springing. It on you. Well, I'll just give a Christian one. I would go to probably some place that's kind of an exotic locale now, but like, 60 years ago when it was super exotic. So I would say, you know what? I would go to, like, Polynesia or Cuba in I realized they were nowhere near the same thing, but I would go to Cuba in 1920, and the thing I would take would be Yuumi. Interesting. So you just go for a vacation, basically forever vacation. Yeah. All right, see, I would recommend you go back even further to Cuba before there was anyone there with, like, a big gun, and then you own Cuba. I don't want to own Cuba. I like the local flavor. You know what I mean? I like the local flavor that's like, not been there's, not like an Old Navy anywhere near this local flavor. It's, like, totally local flavor. But they also have mojitos already. Okay, so you would go get away from the things of man back in the day with your wife where they have alcohol served. Yes. That's a great answer. Thanks. I love it. It was off the cuff. I can just picture you and you me kicking it in 1920 in Kuba, Cuba. Yeah, I'd wear one of those shirts. I'd be one of those guys who wear Cuban shirts. Yes. What are those called? The Cuban shirt. There's another name I can't remember. I'm sure it's like the cruiseware, right? Yes, but with two pockets and the unnecessary seams. There's a name somewhere. John Hodgman and Jesse Thornner going we can't hear you. I don't know. All right, well, that was it for Romani. If you want to hang out with me and Chuck outside of this podcast, you can. You can find us on Instagram, Pinterest, Twitter, Facebook. You can just look up stuff you should know S-Y-S-K Josh and Chuck on your favorite web browser and bring up all that stuff. You can send us an email to stuffbodcast@discovery.com and hang out with us on our website, stuffyoustnow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstepworks.com. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. There's a perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, My Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today. You want your kid eating the best nutrition, right? And by that, we mean your dog. Halo Elevate is natural science based nutrition guaranteed to support your dog's top five health needs. Better than leaving brands. Find Halo Elevate at Petco pet Supplies plus and select neighborhood pet stores." | ||
Lab-grown meat: Order up! | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/lab-grown-meat-order-up | Since Winston Churchill predicted we'd grow meat in a lab by 1981, researchers have considered doing just that. And thanks to the current work of about 30 groups, we may be only years away from mass-produced artificial meat. But will anyone eat it? | Since Winston Churchill predicted we'd grow meat in a lab by 1981, researchers have considered doing just that. And thanks to the current work of about 30 groups, we may be only years away from mass-produced artificial meat. But will anyone eat it? | Tue, 18 Dec 2012 21:58:40 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2012, tm_mon=12, tm_mday=18, tm_hour=21, tm_min=58, tm_sec=40, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=353, tm_isdst=0) | 24655071 | audio/mpeg | "This July, don't miss an entire summer of surprises on Disney Plus with Disney's High School Musical, the Musical, the Series season three Zombies, three Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness and the wonderful summer of Mickey Mouse. Plus new episodes of Marvel Studios, ms. Marvel and National Geographics. America the Beautiful. From the award winning producers of Planet Earth, Frozen Planet and the Disney Nature films, america the Beautiful takes viewers on a tour of the most spectacular and visually arresting regions of our great nation. All these and more streaming this month on Disney Plus. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. There's a perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, My Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me, as always, is Charles W. Chuck Bryant. And this here is stuff you should know. The podcast welcome P in the new Billman. Where is that from? The producers on an in Cabaret. Is that from something? Yeah, I think maybe Cabaret. I've never seen it. I don't know. I just sing welcome in different languages. So you're feeling good right now? I'm feeling better now that we have gotten the condom podcast out of the way. I was a little bit sweaty during that one. Oh, really? Got me all worked up. Now we can talk about Lab grown meat. What a great one to punch. Jerry's Chicken. We are talking Lab grown meat, man. Yeah, we're talking about possibly the future of humanity or what the future of humanity will eat. And this has kind of been a big thing ever since 2001, which we'll get to in a second. Let's flash forward by flashing back to 2008, when Peter, the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, posted a $1 million reward to the first researcher that could come up with Labgrown, aka. In vitro, aka. Cultured meat, that was commercially viable, meaning it was for sale within ten states by June 30, 2012. That didn't happen. No, it didn't happen. But PETA is very excited because they said in October 2012, the first taste test of in vitro hamburger took place. And I think we know who that was, don't we? Was that the man? I believe it was a guy named Gabor Forgaks. Yeah, that's a funny name. But he is one of the leaders in the Lab grown meat. He's basically one of two. There is a Bill Gates and a Steve Jobs in the in vitro meat game. And Gabora foregax. I take it as the Steve Jobs. Yeah, he's from the University of Missouri, and he's a tissue engineering specialist, and he has a company called Modern Meadows. It's a great name. It's one of the better company names I've heard of in my life. Yeah, it really fits. It's not too clever. I hate the ones that are too, like, nod in a winky. Right. Like Robocow. Yeah. Is that another one? No, I just made it. Oh, see, that's awful. That's great. I channel my inner John Strickland. That's very good. I just pictured Strickland, like, just sticking his head in the door and saying, Robocow. So, anyway, Modern Meadows is his company, and their aim is to get this stuff tasty enough and cheap enough to make it a viable solution for either people who want to eat meat but have reasons to not, or to help solve the impending hunger crisis. Not impending. It's kind of already here. Right. And apparently it may not have been forego. It could have been, I don't know. But for GAX definitely did a taste test himself earlier in 2011. He went to a TEDMED conference and talked about his synthetic meat and then ate some on stage, which is kind of weird, because it's like yeah, it's kind of weird. I guess if you were, like, hawking hot dogs or something, you would eat them in public. Sure. So it's not that odd. It seems at first blush. It sounds a little bit of a carnival barker feel to that, though. They say that every great scientist is one part BS. Skinner, one part PT. Barnum. Yeah. Well, that's a principal Skinner said. Oh, really? Yeah. On The Simpsons? Yeah. That's a good thing, though. I like it. Yeah. The other the Bill Gates, or was that the Bill Gates? I think forgax is Steve Jobs. Okay. So the Bill Gates is Marky Post from Night Court. From TV night. Court right. Oh, no. Mark Post from Mastrich University, which is in the Netherlands. Right. It's like these two universities get their researchers swapped. Seriously. Mark Post is in the Netherlands and the University of Missouri. So weird. It is weird. Maybe they did an exchange program or something. So Post is a vascular physiologist, and they say that they're not competing. No. And if you look at their stuff, they're coming up with two very different means to the same end. Okay. Eventually. But who knows? Maybe they're friends. I would imagine it's a pretty small community, the synthetic meat community. Yeah. They're probably on each other's speed dial, I bet. Right. And there's supposedly only about 30 groups working on this right now. But what's mind boggling is just how much of an impact a breakthrough, a real breakthrough. And by breakthrough, it was like you were saying forego said, like, you have to get it cheap, and you have to get it tasty. And then you have to get the public to eat it. Yeah. But how much of a real breakthrough that would be if someone were able to do that? It would be tremendous and potentially solve a lot of problems that are impending. So this idea is not new. The idea of creating lab grown meat, the Churchill thing. Yeah. You don't think that's exactly what we're talking about? Oh, I guess so. Plus, it's Winston Churchill. He's one of the coolest people of all time. That's true. In 1931, before he was a prime minister, churchill predicted that by 1981, quote, we shall escape the absurdity of growing a whole chicken in order to eat the breast or wing by growing these parts separately under a suitable medium. Right. And he was off roughly by 20 years. Not bad. No. And he may have mass produced, like we'd be doing that by then. 50 years in 2000 and 120 years after his prediction, or the deadline of his prediction. A guy from Tuoro college. I've never heard of them. I don't know. New York Toro College. T-O-U-R-O Never heard of it either. Well, his name is Morris Benjaminson. His dad's name is Benjamin. He came up with this idea to take goldfish muscle cut fresh out of a live goldfish, which is pretty bad for the goldfish, and then thrown into a VAT of nutrient rich fetal bovine serum, which is wow. I wonder why I use goldfish. That's what I don't get. Why didn't he use, like, tilapia or something someone might want to eat? I don't know. Maybe that was the only thing that was handy. There was an office, goals. He brought it in his little plastic bag. Yeah. Wow. And instead of eating it live, for his fraternity prank, he grew some more. He actually grew 14% more of what he put into this fetal bovine serum. Yes. The cells divided. Yes. They were live, which is big. But the serum coaxed it into continuing to divide and again formed 14% more mass than was originally introduced. More mass, or did you write this? No, this is Patrick Kyler, as Patrick puts it, 14% worth of additional flesh on the chunks. Yeah. I like mass better than flesh on the chunks. Flesh on the chunks is good. That's a good band name. Yes, it is. So this guy has this bit and he's like, holy cow, it worked. Let's eat it. So he tried to he started to fry it up with a bit of lemon, olive oil and garlic and pepper. Right. Yeah, it makes great sense. And no one would eat it. I would have tried it. I would have, too, actually. I don't know if I would have tried goldfish if it would have been something else. The goldfish is still a big turn off. Hey, everybody. If you want a great quality website, you want to do it yourself with no must and no fuss. Then there's nowhere else to look at in Squarespace. That's right. Squarespace has every single thing that you need to put together an awesome website. Everything from growing and engaging your audience with email campaigns, collecting donations for your cause through Apple, Pay, Stripe, Venmo, PayPal. Plus, you can also make your website optimized for mobile, which is great for your user on the go. That's right. And if you're into selling stuff, square space is everything to sell anything. They have all the tools you need to get your business off the ground. They have ecommerce templates, inventory management, really simple checkout process, and secure payment. So whatever you want to sell, you can sell it on Squarespace. Yep, don't just take our word for it. Head to Squarespace.com SYSK and start your free trial today. And then when you're ready to launch, use our offer code s YSK, and you'll get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace. Comsysk. Hey, that's the sound of another sale on Shopify, the all in one commerce platform to start, run and grow your business, isn't it, Chuck? That's right. Shopify gives entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big business, so upstart startups and established businesses alike can sell everywhere, synchronize online and in person sales, and effortlessly stay informed. Scaling your business is a journey of endless possibility. You can reach customers online and across social networks with an ever growing suite of channel integrations and apps, including Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest, and more. And you can synchronize your online and in person sales so you gain insights as you grow with detailed reporting of conversion rates, profit margins, and beyond. It's more than a store. Shopify grows with you. So just go to shopify.com stuff all lowercase for a free 14 day trial, and get full access to Shopify's entire suite of features. Grow your business with Shopify today. Go to shopify. comStuff right now. So his initial thought was, this could be great for astronauts if they could eat goldfish or I guess, fake meat out in space. That was his original thought, was astronaut use. Isn't that what everybody thinks? Whenever you think of something made in the lab that normally nature produces, it's like, oh, well, astronauts will go bonkers for this. Well, apparently Benjamin said had the same idea like you said. But as news of this got out, PETA and other animal rights organizations were like, whoa, whoa, wait. What did you just do? We are full supporters of this idea. Yeah. Because again, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. Sure, when you eat a steak, when you eat pork or bacon or ham, all these things come from an animal. It's often lovable animal. But people still like to eat them. People still get nutrients from them. So if you take the idea that an animal, a live sentient animal, suffered and died so that you could eat it and still eat it, man. That's like that's the bonanza right there. It is. At least for people who object to eating meat for out of cruelty and still want to eat meat. Objecting on the grounds of cruelty to eating meat. Yeah, I get in 2008 in Norway, they had a conference, first time ever, on test tube meat, and they released a study saying, you know what? We could potentially manufacture this stuff for $5,000 a ton, which would make it competitive on an economic basis with real meat by 2012, which is right now. There are about 30 different research teams working on this, but like we said, I get the feeling that Post and Igor what was his name? Gabor. Gabor. Definitely a deleting edge. And I did a little calculating here, Chuck, if you don't mind. I found how much it cost in Illinois in 2007 to raise a pound of beef. Okay. And it was something like $65 a pound. Right. That's how much it costs to raise it. Right about now, it's about 288 a pound for ground beef retail. Okay. That's, like, a markup of, like, 4.5 times, right, for Chuck, or are we just talking? Okay. Yeah. Got you. This is just rough, back of the envelope kind of stuff. If you took that $5,000 a ton in vitro meat figure and that's how much it cost to manufacture, and then also did that same 4.5 times markup, you come to about $11 a pound, which is pretty competitive. Yeah. Because think about it. You're paying that much for fillet, right? Yeah. If this were marketed correctly, it would seem even cooler than filet. Sure. Mostly if it tasted good. Yeah. And people pay a lot of money for coba beef. Most times they're not even getting Cobay beef. You know about that whole thing, right? A lot of times it's a big scam. I could see that because, I mean, who knows? There's probably a handful of people in the world who could differentiate the taste of Kobe beef from other beef. Yeah, exactly. Even, like, really renowned restaurants are serving what they call Kobe beef for a lot of money. It's not coveted babies. Messed up. It is messed up. That's like a lobster. The price of lobster is, like, in the basement right now, and restaurants are still charging as much as ever for it and making tons of money. But the lobster men are just getting, like, the short end of the stick because there's a huge supply of them right now. Yeah, but in lobster, one of those where they usually don't say market price on the menu isn't usually, like, just straight up, whatever. It'll say market price. Even if it does and they're still charging you a bunch, like what market price used to be when the price of lobster actually was high. I wonder if you could come in with some numbers and say, no, that's not market price. Apparently, you can argue with just about anybody, really? Yeah. And often win. Well, you know, our buddy Julie was in Maine. She vacations in Maine some, and she said they're like giving her lobsters on her last trip. Yeah. Here's 20 lobsters. We don't want them to go to waste. Right, Julie? Of stuff blow your mind. No. Julie Smith. Okay. Yeah. Our producer. Yeah. There you go. TV. Yes. It's because there's, like a huge boom in the lobster population. Yeah, man, I love a lobster roll. Boy, we got really off track here. All right, well, there's synthetic lobster. It's actually cod. Right? Oh, that's imitation crab meat. Yeah. That's not synthetic, though. It's imitation. Yeah, imitation. Big difference. All right, so the Dutch team, headed by Marque Post, they are using cow stem cells to create this meat. So they culture the stem cell little petri dishes, put it in a small container to produce muscle cells. Sounds kind of gross. And they form little small pieces of muscle, about 2 CM long centimeter wide and a millimeter thick. And they say that it looks a little more like calamari than any kind of a hamburger. And the taste initially is pretty bland. Right. And the reason the taste is bland is because it's missing a lot of essential ingredients to meat. Like blood. Blood, fat. Yes. Blood, veins. And it's such as muscle cells, but muscle fibers that you're eating. And do you know that it was only within the last couple of months that I realized meat steak is muscle mass? Yeah. You told me that you were shocked back then, and I was like, what do you think it was? I hadn't really thought of it. I thought it was its own thing. Like, there's fat, muscle, meat, and then steak. Yeah, that's really what I thought. And then I don't know why I was thinking about it. I think I wanted a steak, so I was thinking about a steak, and I thought too hard and all of a sudden realize what a steak was. Right. But it's not just this muscle. It's muscle fibers. It's fat, it's blood. It's like all of this stuff comes together, and they're going to have to really lick that before they can make the stuff commercially viable. Absolutely. One of the ideas that Modern Meadow is using is to use a 3D printer to spray what they call a bio ink, which is muscle cells and stuff like that, to build up. They spray many layers of the stuff to build it up into more viable meat option, which is pretty cool. 3d printers. Pretty awesome. Did you hear about Japan's photo booth? They're opening the world's first 3D printing photo booth. So you go in and you come out with, like, a little statue of you or you and your lady. That's cool. Nice. Yeah, I would do that. Totally. When would that cost? I don't know, but I would guess a lot at first. Sort of like in vitro meat. All right, so what are the other hurdles here? It's tricky. Like you said, it's a mix of fuel and salt and minerals and hormones, and this is just to grow the cells that are healthy enough to survive. That's not even talking about getting it to look like a steak or a hamburger patty, because like you said, it's not just a very complex group of stuff in there. Right. It's not just like, muscle. And that's it. And it's extremely expensive right now, I think we kind of touched upon, but Mark Post said that his hamburger, the first one that he would ever make, would cost about 350 grand, but he's looking for a celebrity chef to cook it, to kind of drum up business. And Gabor fogaks. Right. That's his last name. Foregak. He was saying his modern Meadows stuff would be between 57 and $180 a pound. Right. Which, like you said, is competitive with Kobe. Yes. And Forgat sees this as I don't think he sees it as like, hey, this is going to be the everyday solution. He sees it as a niche industry. Right. He also said that his first product is more likely going to be leather because it's not as regulated and it's a little easier to accept for the public at large. He also is saying that as far as creating food goes, our imaginations immediately jump to building a steak, building a hamburger, building like a pork chop or something like that. Right. He was saying probably the first stuff that we're going to see is going to be like, flour. And he pointed out in this one CNN article we read, like, you don't eat flour. Flour is in everything that you eat. And he was saying, like, this will be stuff to create meatballs with or pate it's. Like instead of taking a chicken and chopping it up and then using it in that pate, you would use it, although more as an ingredient rather than the steak on the plate. Exactly. At least for now. Makes sense. This could potentially be a great thing for many reasons, one of which is not the least of which is that lab grown meat would have about 78% to 96% fewer greenhouse gases. 99% less land, obviously. Yes. 82% to 96% less water. And 18% of the world's greenhouse emissions come from the livestock sector right now. And, you know, from what? Well, gas and gas. Yeah, exactly. Two types of gas. Yeah. Like, we have big methane problems from cow poop and gas, and then all the gas used to obviously take care of the industry. Petroleum, that is. Plus, it's also just a lot more energy efficient. We use 100 grams of grain to produce 15 grams of meat. That's a 15% efficiency, because what are you doing, Chuck, when you feed something something, right? Yeah. You take the energy found in a plant and feed it to an animal. So it's energy transfer. But you lose 85%. Apparently you're thinking with lab grown meat, the energy efficiency will be like 50%. That's awesome. Yeah. And some of the other costs to grow a pound of beef. Regular beef necessitates 2500 gallons of water, \u00a312 of grain, \u00a335 of topsoil, and the equivalent, energy wise, of one gallon of gas to grow a pound of meat, just \u00a31 of ground beef. Right. So you've got a lot of people abstaining from eating meat because of the animal cruelty aspect. You have a lot of people saying it's just socially irresponsible to eat meat, and then you have people who I guess that's it. Right. That's the only reason people don't eat me. Yeah. Well, people like my wife who don't like the taste. Okay, well, this is not going to appeal to her at all. No, but you were saying, like, that the environment or ecological consumption that it takes to create a pound of meat, apparently they think that meat production is going to have to double in the next 40 years because of increasing incomes around the world. Typically, when your GDP goes up, your consumption of meat goes through the roof. And China and India are on the way up and they're thinking that meat is going to get in high demand to help satisfy that not enough land. Right. Like, right now, I think it said 70% of dry land on the Earth is used for either grazing or some factor of livestock. 70%. Right. So what are you going to do? There's not that much more land left to just use for cattle. Well, what they would do is the price of meat would just go up and up and up. Yeah. It would just become more scarce, I guess. Yeah. But as the price of meat rises, the economic sensibility of lab grown meat will become more viable. True. Because right now one of the things is so cost prohibitive, aside from the fact that it looks like calamari and it tastes bland. Yeah. They said it potentially could be healthier, too. Jason Matheny Director of New Harvest, a nonprofit research.org and they said that it would have health advantages because it's easier to control pathogens in a lab and fat content could be systematically controlled, making it healthier. Like, we're going to put this layer of fat in with our 3D printer because you need the fat. That's where a lot of the flavor comes from. Definitely got to have fat. And then you just got to convince people once it gets cheap enough and tasty enough, like you said, the third hurdle is, like, eat fake meat, people. Right. You'll like it, trust me. I think the big lesson is to not call it something like Soylent Green. Modern Meadows is perfect. Yeah. I wonder what Post the name of his group is. I didn't see. Did you? I don't know. I would taste this. Just I wouldn't pay $300,000 for a hamburger. No, but I would taste it just to see what it tasted like. But I don't know, it sounds kind of gross to me. I would try it, but a lot of people say that eating meat is gross. They sure do. So before you send in those emails, let me cut you off. I understand that. Good going, Chuck. Hey, everybody. If you want a great quality website, you want to do it yourself with no must and no fuss. Then there's nowhere else to look at in Squarespace. That's right. Squarespace has every single thing that you need to put together an awesome website. Everything from growing and engaging your audience with email campaigns, collecting donations for your cause through Apple, Pay, Stripe, Venmo, PayPal. Plus, you can also make your website optimized for mobile, which is great for your user on the go. That's right. And if you're into selling stuff, square Space is everything to sell anything. They have all the tools you need to get your business off the ground. They have ecommerce templates, inventory management, really simple checkout process, and secure payment. So whatever you want to sell, you can sell it on Squarespace. Yeah, don't just take our word for it. Head to Squarespace.com SYSK and start your free trial today. And then when you're ready to launch, use our offer code SYSK and you'll get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace. Comssk square. Hey, that's the sound of another sale on Shopify, the all in one commerce platform to start, run and grow your business, isn't it, Chuck? That's right. Shopify gives entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big business, so upstart startups and established businesses alike can sell everywhere. Synchronize online and in person sales, and effortlessly stay informed. Scaling your business is a journey of endless possibility. You can reach customers online and across social networks with an ever growing suite of channel integrations and apps, including Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest and more. And you can synchronize your online and in person sales, so you gain insights as you grow with detailed reporting of conversion rates, profit margins and beyond. It's more than a store. Shopify grows with you. So just go to shopify. comStuff all lower case for a free 14 day trial, and get full access to Shopify's entire suite of features. Grow your business with Shopify today. Go to shopify. comStuff right now. If you want to learn more about lab grown meat or any kind of things like that, you should check out the Innovations channel on how stuff works. It's pretty awesome. Go to house, the work homepage, and you will see in the top navigation bar. Innovations is one of the channels that we have. Click on that. Or you can just search for lab grown meat in the handy search bar house that works. And I said handy search bar, which means it's time for listener mail. Josh I'm going to call this mentorship email. Hi guys. My name is colin, and I've been listening to you guys since the Viking episode. I've never really been diligent with emails, but I always wanted to write in. I'm in my senior year of high school and involved in a class called Independent Study Mentorship. This program works like an internship for high school students. We're responsible for finding a mentor in whichever career field we are interested in. We do hands on work with our mentors, and throughout the year we compile a portfolio that will eventually be a binder filled not with women, but with everything we take part in and research throughout the year. It will end up about as thick as a good sized dictionary or two. My whole reason for writing you guys is to thank you for doing the podcast. I've been able to get by without research for about a dozen or so topics for essays and projects because you guys usually cover far more than my school curriculum does. I've even been moved up to several advanced classes. Wow. Thanks to you. Keep on doing what you're doing. It's great. And if I happen to get a mention at the end of an episode, I'd be pleasantly surprised. I've always kind of wanted to mention there you go, Colin. That's all you need to do is ask. Yeah, well, you have to ask and excel at school because of yes. And he says, feel free to mention my name if you find this worth mentioning. And yes, I did say you all because I'm from Texas, and everyone from Texas is required to inform everyone else that they are from Texas. That's true. Is it? Oh, yeah. All right, well, calling from Texas. Good luck with your mentorship, buddy. And I think it's a marketing he said, and drop us a line, let us know how it went. That's awesome. Yeah. Let's see. What do you want to ask for? Chuck? Would you eat in vitro meat? Let's get that debate going, huh? Sure. And you know what? We're going to cover factory farming because I got a lot of heat because I went off on bull fighting and a lot of vegetarians said, well, how can you go off on bull fighting and eat meat? So I'm going to make up for that by doing, like, a factory farming podcast. Well, that's great. Can I do it too? You can sit in. You can tweet to us at s yskpodcast. You can join us on Facebook.com stuffyhune, and you can send us a good oldfashioned email to stuffpodcast@discovery.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseofworks.com. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer school's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. There's a perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my. Favorite Murder and Small Town murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today. You know you're the best pet mom when you growl back during playtime, give epic battles Ellie rubs and feed them Halo holistic made with responsibly sourced ingredients plus probiotics for Digestive health. Find us at chewy amazonandhalopets.com." | ||
How LSD Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-lsd-works | In 1943 Swiss chemist Albert Hofman discovered he'd created what may be the most potent hallucinogen known to humankind. Then he took a bike ride. Learn about the chemistry, neurology, history and cultural impact of LSD-25. | In 1943 Swiss chemist Albert Hofman discovered he'd created what may be the most potent hallucinogen known to humankind. Then he took a bike ride. Learn about the chemistry, neurology, history and cultural impact of LSD-25. | Thu, 05 May 2016 12:45:22 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2016, tm_mon=5, tm_mday=5, tm_hour=12, tm_min=45, tm_sec=22, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=126, tm_isdst=0) | 98872071 | audio/mpeg | "Disclaimer drug episode. Hey, everybody. We recorded an episode on LSD, and we just wanted to throw it out there that we talk about LSD and other drugs in a very frank, open, nonjudgmental way. So, parents, you may not want your little kiddies to listen to this one. It's up to you. I don't know what kind of household you run, but that's our disclaimer. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W, Chuck Bryant and Jerry. And this is stuff you should know. The podcast. That's right, Josh. I want to wish you two things. Happy anniversary. Yes, happy anniversary. Because the day that we're recording it was eight years ago this week that we released well, not we, you. We. I wasn't even there yet. You were here in spirit. I appreciate that. Yes. It's when Stuff You Should Know was born. Yeah, 2008, mid April, 8 years ago. We got 42 years ago. And happy Bicycle Day. Did you know that it was Bicycle Day when you picked this out? No. Really? Really. Actually, that's amazing, isn't it? Yeah, it's weird. Yeah. The thing that prompted it was that recent study about LSD. And I was like, oh, yeah, we should totally do LSD. We've never done it. And it was, I think, yesterday that I realized today is Bicycle Day. And for those of you who aren't in the know Bicycle Day, it's not about riding bicycles to work. No, it's not. As a matter of fact, somebody on Twitter said, every day is Bicycle Day to me. I'm like, I bet you don't listen. So Bicycle Day commemorates the day when Albert Hoffman, the discoverer, or creator, I guess, depending on how you look at it, of LSD experimented on himself, and part of that included him riding his bike back home from work while he was wiggin. Yeah, and we'll talk about that here in a minute. But Bicycle Day itself was started in 1985, supposedly by Professor Thomas Roberts of Northern Illinois University. Joe Huskies, in commemoration of that what some people say was a great day in history. Sure. It certainly was a day that changed history. You really can't argue that. No. And if you want to just hear all things LSD and Stuff You Should Know, we did two other shows. 2008 did the CIA test LSD on unsuspecting Americans? Good one. The answer is yes. Mind. Opening in October 2010. Can you treat mental illness with psychedelics? And now in typical stuff you should know backward form we're going to do LSD yeah, we like to nibble around that do LSD. That'd be weird. Oh, we weren't supposed to. We better get through this quick. We got about 30 minutes. Oh, we should also point out at the end of this episode, we have John Hodgman on in a very special listener mail audio segment where he rebuts our nostalgia episode. Although it seems like we agreed more than we did not end up rebutting anything. Yeah, we worked out the misunderstanding. How about that? Yeah. And we like, all times that you sit down with Hodgeman, we talk for 30 minutes about one small thing. That's why this episode is super long, because this is going to be long, too. It is. So it's super size robust. We should sell, like, eight more extra ads. Oh, let's just kidding. Yeah. Like, Tommy Chong would probably want in on this one. He's got some businesses, don't they? Yeah. I shouldn't joke, because sales will be, like, knocking on the door. Hey, Chuck. Really? Really. So Chuck, we're talking about LSD today and LSD again. That Bicycle Day, that first day 73 years ago. I think it really did change the world, because there are very few substances that have ever been created by man that had a more sweeping, profound effect than LSD. Sure a lot of people associate LSD with hippies. The Grateful Dead, maybe ravers, that kind of thing. But if you really start to kind of poke around popular culture here in the west, you start to see it turn up everywhere. Yeah. Like every American president has taken LST. Right. Well, it's part of the oath of office. Like the Bible is laced with LSD. Put their hand on. Put their hand on it. Actually, let's debunk that myth right now. Apparently, LSD is non absorbent through the skin. Yeah. Which means that those well, there's a bunch of rumors, but the one with Jimi Hendrix would put LSD in his sweatband. He may have. He wouldn't have done anything. Although it could have trickled down into his mouth, maybe. Yeah. Here's some other popular LSD myths. I don't think there have been any other drugs that have spawned Maybe these days, but I'm not hipped all these new drugs, man. It's impossible to be. I was doing research for this, and I ran across, like, all the new drugs that are available today. It's incredible. There's just, like, an avalanche of new, virtually untested drugs that they're going from synthesis to human trials by way of customer. People are taking these things, and they're essentially like guinea pigs for these things. Still, it's extremely dangerous. Yeah. Molly and Billy and Jimmy. No, way beyond that. Jimmy's old news. Here are just a few quickie highlights. The guy that thought he was in orange, so he peeled his skin off. Clearly, LSD did. That not true. College kids who stared at the sun until they were blind. Clearly, LLC is responsible for those. Children licking stick tattoos given out to children at Halloween. Seven hits will make you legally insane. Right. You can use that as a defense in court. Diane Linkletter jumped from a window because she thought she could fly. So that was a big one. That kind of changed public opinion. Well, she jumped from a window. She definitely did. But she was also suicidal, and she had taken LSD before. What made it such a huge case was that she was Art Linkletter's daughter. Yeah, art Link letter at the time. This is, I think, the early 70s when his daughter committed suicide. He was already a bit of a he was like the Bill Cosby of the age, which is not surprising. The moral crusader and kind of social scold of everybody and how things are just not like they used to be. And the good old days are so much better. Got you. And everybody's just letting their kids get away with so much and pull up your pants and that kind of stuff. Oh, boy. He was a bit like that already. And then his daughter committed suicide, and he was understandably devastated by that. And he turned his ire toward drugs because she had taken LSD before, but there's no evidence that she was on LSD at the time. She was already suicidal. But again, our link letter is going to all of the kids parents and saying, like, don't let this happen to your children too. Scared America's parents and really kind of sealed the deal of public opinion against LSD at the time. Yeah. And how about one more for you, pittsburgh Pirates pitcher Doc Ellis. Those are no hitter on acid. That's true. That's 100% true. Well, I know we've covered it. Dupas. Okay. Oh, you were putting one in? Yeah. Oh, sorry. There's a great documentary about it. 100% true is the only person's word we have to go on was Doc Ellis. Well, his girlfriend also I don't want to say testify, but she backed it up. She's like, yeah, we took acid. I do some more pitching into it, though. And apparently the story changed a bit over the years, and he also said other things that didn't quite match up. So there's a little speculation that he might have gussied it up a little bit. Oh. Like the ball was telling him what pitch to throw. Well, and maybe when he took the acid. So supposedly he took it at noon, and he was pitching at, like, seven. Yeah, 630. So, I mean, he still would have been on acid. He just wouldn't have been peaking on acid or something. Yeah, but it's a great documentary. You should check it out. Yeah, it's good. Okay. You threw me off at that when you got me. I was like, oh, no, Chuck, we did an Internet roundup on that. Yeah, that's right. So there was another thing, Chuck, that I remember growing up with, is that acid. If you took acid, it would mess up your chromosome so that when you had offspring, kid, they would be all kinds of messed up. Disfigured, deformed, would have severe developmental defects, all sorts of terrible stuff. That's what we call it back in the early 80s, by the way, they could put holes in your brain. Yeah, that's another one, too, that everybody ran around believing. And one of the reasons everyone ran around believing all of these weird myths, by the way. No, LSD doesn't affect your chrome zones. It actually is metabolized and out of your system faster than just about any other drug on the planet. Yes, you pee it out very quickly. Yeah. Your liver starts breaking it down immediately, so it certainly doesn't affect your chromosomes and it doesn't put holes in your brain. But the reason why these myths are around and the reason why people believe them is because the authorities are the ones who either made up these myths or latched onto them and basically amplified them through these kind of public service announcements and through the media. And so a lot of people walked around believing this. And on the one hand you can say, well, that's fine. It kept some kids maybe off of heroin or something. Lying to kids is fine when it comes to drugs. You can make that case, right? Yes. But at the same time, you can also point to the real chilling effect that the LSD hysteria had on understanding consciousness, potentially treating mental illness, which we are just now starting to realize. Like, yeah, it has a lot of potential for that, treating alcoholism. There's a lot of people whose lives could have been helped had at the very least science been allowed to continuous inquiry into LSD. But the fear of LSD was so widespread and so profound that even science was clamped down. Yeah. The CIA was like, only we can give people LSD. Right. Not you scientists in controlled settings. Right. There's this one guy I don't know where the lawsuit is now, but I don't think we covered it on our show about the CIA. But the family of a guy that supposedly jumped from a window after being dosed. Frank Olson. Yeah, but his family suing the CIA saying no, he was beaten up and shoved out the window because he had information. I think he was actually dose, though, and he was losing his stuff. I don't know. He was dosed, but their contention the family but he was thrown out. He was murdered. I saw that too. Yeah, the Frankolsonproject.org maybe it's what the website is. And we definitely covered that, the CIA thing, because he was around at the time. That happened at that time. Because that was the time when if you went to a party with CIA, they were all just dosing one another for fun. Yeah. If you went to a San Francisco CIA party, you were hardcore. At this time, you're going to be drinking acid unwittingly. Alright. So we should even though we've covered it before, the story is so wonderful, we should go over the creation of LSD by Albert Hoffman again, don't you think? Please begin. You didn't skip this, did you? No. I think we should put in like a little accompanying music or something. The way you set it up. Yeah. Like some Jefferson Airplane, maybe a swiss chemist. His name was Albert Hoffman. Like we said a few times, he was working at a lab called Sandos. They were pharma company, and now they're still around, but they're subsidiary. I can't remember who. They're not making drugs anymore. No, they are. Okay. Yeah. So he was working on a project involving something called ergot. It's a fungus that grows on rye, and it's been blamed, notably this woman named Linda Rayle. Oh, I know what you're talking about. Yes. She put forth a theory that the Salem witch trials were kicked off by a round of ergot poisoning. And she has a lot of good evidence. I won't go over it all. It's cool to look up, though. And a lot of people came out and like, you know what? I bet she's right. So you're going to talk about the Hoffman? Yeah. So he was working with Ergot, which grows on rye, and did a lot of poisoning over the years, notably in the Middle Ages. Even though they used it medicinally, midwives used it to help speed up labor until they decided in the 19th century. It's pretty dangerous, actually. Yeah. Maybe we should just not poison these pregnant women with Ergut. Well, they were not just giving them urgent to poison them for fun. Apparently, it contracts muscles. Right. So it would speed up labor. Right, exactly. And they figured out that it would slow bleeding, I think, by dilating blood vessels, maybe. So they would give it to a woman after labor still. But they stopped giving it to them to put a woman into labor. Got you. But it was remarkable enough that even after this level of medicine went away, scientists were still figuring out, like, there's something with urgent. We've got to be able to do something with it. It's just too potent. Right. This was the 1930s. It's just so crazy to think about when you see pictures of the 1930s. Yeah. They're like wires hanging everywhere, new electric lamps, like experimenting with LSD. It's weird, but it happened at the Rockefeller Institute in New York City. They isolated lysurgic acid from ergot. And this is where Hoffman kind of started his work, resulting in 1938. And the 25th derivative, the number 25, is in. He did 24 previous. He finally landed on LSD 25. And that was kind of it. Yeah. An LSD, we should say, stands for Lysurgic acid diethylamide. And basically he started with this lysurgic acid and just basically tinkered around with it until he, like you said, arrived at LSD 25. And again, he wasn't looking for the most potent psychedelic known to humankind. No. He was looking for medicine. Exactly. He was looking for, I think, a respiratory stimulator, something like that, maybe kids with asthma. So, yeah, give these kids some LSD 25 right up. And the first time he messed around with it, he sent it off to the pharmacologist to look because he was a chemist at Sandos and chemist at Sandos. They figure out processes to extract stuff to make new compounds, that kind of thing. But that's the sum of their job. Once they come up with a new compound that they're satisfied with, they send it off to the pharmacology department. The pharmacology department says, yeah, actually, this made that frogs leg jump by itself all the way across the room. We think there's some potential here. The pharmacologist got their hands in 1938 on LSD 25, examined it, said, we don't think there's any pharmacological potential here. Throw it away. And Hoffman did as he was told. Five years later, he suddenly just thinks about LSD 25 again and is like, you know what? I think they missed something. I'm going to make a new batch just on my own. Yeah. Later on, he was quoted as saying, I did not choose LSD, LSD found and called me. So him deciding to make a batch on his own is highly irregular. For one, he's a chemist. The chemists don't go and tell the pharmacologist they missed something. They certainly don't have a hunch. Five years later they missed something. And then thirdly, for him to make a batch of LSD was very weird. It was contrary to his work orders. And also, ergot, was very expensive and Sandoz was trying to keep a lid on expenses. So it was really weird that five years later, he mixes up another batch of LSD. That is true. But while he was mixing it up, it was sort of a little like a Peter Parker experiment gone wrong. Right. He got a little inside of them somehow, they think. Now, he probably got on his fingers and maybe licked his finger while he was he had been eating KFC for lunch. Yeah, maybe so. And it got into his body and he had an acid trip. He did an accidental one at first. The world's first acid trip. That's right. And that happened. Unless one of those pharmacologists was keeping something on the down low, he's like, yeah, this is useless. Yeah. Throw all this away. Except to save me, like, ten tabs. This is my head staff. So that was April 18, 1943. And the next day, Albert Hoffman's like, I got to try that again. So he takes some LSD. I think he took 250 micrograms at 04:20 P.m., believe it or not. I noticed that, too. Almost on for 19. Yeah. But that's a marijuana thing. 420. Yes. It kind of jumped out at me as like, I saw it too. I'm sure everyone who's ever read that was like, oh, dude, 419. Oh, he was so close. That's the universe. So he took 250 micrograms. Is that right? Which is about ten times the minimum dose that an average person takes these days. That's a lot. And he shot it. He injected it intravenously, I believe. Yeah. Didn't he? Or did he take it orally? I'm sorry? No, he took it orally, yeah. I don't see in there where he injected it and he started to have a wild ride. He did. He went to the doctor. At first, he asked his assistant. He was like, I am tripping pretty hard. You don't know what that is yet, but I do. And he said, I think I should go to the doctor. And he went to the doctor, and the doctor was like, Dude, you're fine. You're not fine. But there's nothing physically going on with you. Right. And we should say he made it to his house with his assistant and they were on their bikes. This is where Bicycle Day comes from. And he was like, My God, how long did it take for us to get home? And his assistant was like, Actually, we made it home really fast. And he's like, what? He's freaking out. He's like, Go, give me some milk from the neighbor. Ends up drinking two liters of milk that night. Yeah, because milk could supposedly quell the effects of different drugs at the time. Yeah. So it made sense. It did nothing for this. No. And his neighbor later on, there's a couple of stellar quotes. Let me jump back. Sorry. Jump back, Jack. That's all right. After 40 minutes after that initial dose, he wrote down his journal. 1700 hours, beginning dizziness, feeling of anxiety, visual distortions, symptoms of paralysis, desire to laugh, full stop. And then following that closely, I was able to write the last words only with great effort. And then who wrote that last line? And when he got the milk, he said, the lady next door whom I scarcely recognize, brought me milk. Oh, yeah. She was no longer Mrs. R but rather a malevolent insidious witch with a colored mask. Yeah. So people think now he was fearful going into this experiment. And that's what we'll talk about, set and setting and your mindset going in has a lot to do with what kind of trip you have. And people think now, he went into it fearful and ended up, by all accounts, having a bad trip. He had a bad trip. But then the doctor came and was like, look, man, something wacky is going on with you. But physically you're fine. You don't have to worry about it. And I believe that's what kind of freed Hoffman up to? Have a good time. Have a good trip. After that, he really started to go, oh, wow. And really took in what he was seeing, what he was thinking, what he was experiencing and moved from Dysphoria to Euphoria. Is it the way he would have put it? That's right. And he goes into work the next day, tells everyone about this amazing experience. And everyone else tries it. Well, not everyone, but other people at Sandok, his two bosses did, I think his boss and his boss's boss. And the reason they were like, no. Was because he said, I took 250 micrograms. They're like, that's astounding 250 micrograms. Yeah. That's nothing, right. They've never heard of a compound having the kind of effects that Hoffman was reporting. And he's like, I measured it myself. I know what I was doing. And it was 250 micrograms. These guys each took a third of that, and they tripped pretty hard themselves. And from that moment on, Sandos was like, we're onto something here. Yeah. He also experimented on animals. He started dosing well, you name it, he gave it to mice. And he said they moved to August and showed alterations in licking behavior. They taught themselves the tie dye. Cats hair stood on end and they salivated. He put cats and mice together, and instead of the cats attacking the mice, it said the felines would ignore the rodents or sometimes even if you're frightened by them. How about that? Yeah, that's a cat on a bad trip. It said chimpanzees did not show any obvious signs of being affected, but normal chimps around them became upset, which his theory was they failed to maintain these weird social norms that are only perceptible to other gyms. Yeah. Fish swam oddly, and finally, spiders altered web building patterns. At low doses, the webs were even better proportioned and more exactly built than normally. But in higher doses, the webs are badly rudimentarily made. He would give it like, look, there's a roach crawling across the floor. Let's dose it, see what happens. And there's also a very famous case when it was at Hoffman who tested it, this dude in Oklahoma who is a professor of maybe pharmacology, I'm not sure, psychology he shot an elephant. He got his hands on the Oklahoma City Zoo's elephant and shot it full of LSD. Oh, my God. The elephant like, trumpeted once fell on its side, started seizing its eyes, rolled back on its head. It bit part of its tongue off. It stayed like this for an hour. He finally ultimately, a lot of people point to this as a fatality from LSD, proving that you can die. There's such a thing as a fatal overdose from LSD. Wow. But other people say, well, actually, then he shot the elephant with even more tranquilizers to try to calm it down. And that's probably what killed the elephant. But this guy gave me I never heard of but it was like that for like an hour and a half, just suffering on just an enormous amount of acid. And the guy actually used to boast about it. He kind of wore it like a badge, like it made his career. And it was just such a foul thing. Even the Scientologists were mad about it and released articles criticizing the guy in his work. Really? Yeah. And then there's a lot of questions about whether he's actually a CIA funded scientist as well. Well, he had a blow gun. That's the first thing they give you when you sign up with the CIA. Here's your blow gun and gallon of LSD. Yeah. Rip Tusky, the elephant. He went in a really bad way. Was that his name? Yes. That's terrible. So, long story short, Sandos is onto something. They say, this research is compelling. We're going to patent this stuff and market it as Dellisid Telesid. D-E-L-Y. Sid and they started advertising it for use, like psychiatrists. You should get some of this stuff. Gets them. You should use it yourself and use it on your patients and see what happens. They said again, I just want to repeat what Chuck said. Use it on yourself so you know what's going on exactly. Well, that's highly irregular compared to the psychiatry of today. They don't usually go like, here's a couple of Zany bars for you to try. Just eat some and then you'll know what your patients are going through. They don't do that anymore. Come on. They're not supposed to. Chuck okay, but yes. Sandos is like, sending the stuff out as an experimental drug. That's how it was labeled at first, and as it caught on, they moved it into full on marketing and started selling them like hot cakes. Yeah, it's pretty neat. If you look up Deleted for Google Images, it's just package right there. It looks like it's very nice. And 60s box. Sure. It says Deleted LSD 25. Here it is in the vials. So weird. And they came in 25 microgram doses, which is a low dose. It's about half of what an average dose you would buy today would be at a Fish concert, I guess. I'm sure that's even a dated reference. What are people doing LSD these days? EDM shows. Surely shows. How about that? That's probably dated. Probably. We're old, Chuck. I know we're old. Billy Joel concert. Sure. Yeah. People inject LSD at Billy Joel concerts right in their eyeball. So by the mid 1960s is when it actually became illegal in 1966. Well, hold on, stop making it before that, though. When it was selling like hotcakes, it was having a real beneficial effect in the psychiatric setting. Oh, yeah. 40,000 doses were given to patients. 40,000 patients got doses just in the US. Alone. Right. I mean, like, a lot of doses were sold, and that was just the US. And it was having an effect in Europe, they used it for I can't remember what it was called. I want to say, like psychotronic or something like that, where they just give you the average dose, maybe two pills, a low dose, and then they would talk about your childhood and that kind of thing. They used it to kind of disarm the patient. Right. In the US. They used what was called psychedelic therapy, where they would give you about ten times the minimum dose. About what Hoffman took when he experimented on himself. Right. And that was meant to just not just break down your defenses, but to completely blow your mind, basically, so that when you came back down, you would have had all these revelations and you were essentially a better person with a more fulfilled sense of self and meaning in your life. Yeah. Those were the two schools of thought. Like in Europe, we'll talk about your childhood and give you a little acid. Right. In America, we're going to open all these doors of perception. And the thought was that you could skip years of psychotherapy with a good acid trip. And a lot of people had this experience. Very famously, Kerry Grant was hugely into acid as a result of going to see a psychiatrist in Beverly Hills. And there's a really great article from Vanity Fair from a few years back called Carrying the sky with Diamonds that I would strongly recommend going and reading because it's really interesting and it gives you a really good glimpse of this era where, like the Mad Men era, everybody's taking LSD at their psychiatrist's office for 8 hours. Well, there was an LSD episode for Madness. Right. I think it's mentioned in that article it was one of the best of a great show. When Roger sherling takes acid. Yes. Was it at a psychiatrist? No, it was just like a party. Right, okay. Like a party where they were saying, do this to expand your mind. It wasn't slipped to them or anything. Right. Got you. Yeah, but I had a profound effect on them in the show. And Chuck, there's actually this awesome little quote from Kerry Grant that makes it in that article about his experience with LSD, one of them, at least, he said, when I first started under LSD, I found myself turning and turning on the couch. And you have to imagine Carrie Grant saying this, which makes even better. Oh, I am. I said to the doctor, Why am I turning on the sofa? And he said, don't you know why? And I said, I didn't have the Vegas idea, but I wonder when I was going to stop. When you stop it? He answered. Well, it was like a revelation to me. He felt like he was under the spell of LSD or whatever. He realized he had control over his life. Well, it's kind of cool. Nice. So it did have a really big effect on people in real life as well. But like you said, very quickly, in very short order, within 1012 years of it being marketed for the first time by Sandos, it starts to become outlawed around the country and around the world. Yeah. By not a lot of research was done in the United States. By 1969, there were only six projects conducted by 74, the National Institute of Mental Health said, that had no therapeutic value. And then the final experiments in the United States took place in the 1980s. And those studies, and most of the newer studies now, are concerned with end of life care and terminally ill patients. Yeah, but the window is starting to open. Once more to studying LSD and its effects on neurology and psychiatry and that kind of stuff. And actually, when it started to get outlawed and Sando stopped making it, they recalled their stocks of it and handed it over to the National Institutes of Mental Health for study. But within a few years, the National Institute of Mental Health said, like, no therapeutic value whatsoever, despite 40,000 people in the US. Alone basically singing its praises. No therapeutic value whatsoever. Yeah. Well, I don't know if all 40,000 people said it was great. I would say a significant portion of it. If you go back and look at the media coverage of it at the time, it was mostly favorable. It was very promising. Yeah. All right, so we're going to take a break here and come back and teach everyone how to make LSD. All right? Josh all right. The first thing that you want to do if you want to make LSD is be a really good qualified chemist. Yes. With a really good qualified setup. Yeah. This is not meth. You can't go to Walmart making it in a Mountain Dew bottle and make it in a Mountain Dew bottle on aisle six. Right. Shake it up real good and you've got meth. Yeah. Ingredients are tough to get, and they're highly regulated. They're not found on drug store shelves. No, it's very different. No. Plus, I mean, you can start with and there's actually other natural sources of LSD precursors, including morning Glory seeds and Hawaiian Baby Woodrow seeds. And there are some LSD recipes that call for extracting the stuff called LSA from these things and starting with that. But it's a coin toss what kind of quality your ultimate LSD is going to be, because you don't know how good the LSA is in these things. Plus, the government, in a nod to their Prohibition era tactics, actually put a toxic coating on these seeds to discourage people from using them to create LSD or even eating them, which some people do. So I guess if you're a legitimate LSD chemist, you are starting with Ergut, like Hoffman did. That's right. Just like in the old days, in the 1930s, what you want to do, you get this fungus, which is the urgent, and you have to culture it. To extract the alkaloids from that urge, you have to have a dark room, because just like sheets of acid can be contaminated by sitting out in the sun in the back of your jetta, the fungus itself will decompose under bright light. Right. So you got to do some of this early work in a dark room. Right, exactly. And you take the urge. Once you have it extracted, you're isolating the alkaloids. Right. Urgent alkaloid. And when you've got the alkaloid, you add some solvents and reagents to it, which themselves are dangerous as well. One of them is chloroform, which is a no joke chemical. Yeah. Hoffman actually, the next day thought he didn't quite know for sure that it was the LSD, so he huffed chloroform because he thought it was probably a chloroform. He's like, Jeff fridge is in the vanishing. He has some chloroform and I guess woke up a little while later and said, no, that wasn't acid. No, something different must be the LSD. So cloriform is not good for you. Another one of the reagents is an hydrazine, which sounds like a Douglas Adams character. Yeah. And it's a known carcinogen. Very poisonous. And both of them are easily breathed in and absorbed through the skin. So these things are no joke. And they're important in turning urgent alkaloids into LSD. So it's very difficult, very dangerous if you're not getting that picture. Yeah. Hopefully no one's like setting up in their kitchen and following along. Well, I mean, you would get nowhere very quickly. We're not giving out detailed information. And what's funny is funny you bring that because until I think, like, 1965, you could mail off to the US. Patent Office, and for $0.50, they would mail you the patent to LSD, which is the recipe for LSD. Wow. You could get it directly from the US. Government for a few years. I bet it's online somewhere, don't you know? Oh, I'm sure, yeah. On the dark web. Probably not even on I can HES cheeseburger. Probably. So the Ergokloid is insnthesized into lecergic acid compound. It's called isolateurgic acid hydrolyze. I'm sorry. Hydrazide. Nice. And you do that by adding some chemicals. Heat it up a little bit, shake it in your milk jug, put a little basil in there. Is it okay to joke about this? If it's not okay to joke about this, Chuck, then we've lost our sense of humor. That's right. Then that is isomerized, which means and this is pretty advanced chemistry, but it's really advanced chemistry. It means the atoms are actually the molecules are being rearranged in the chemical process right. With a little heat, a little reagent solvent, that kind of stuff. It's taking a compound and basically doing the old switcheroo, and then, bam, you have an entirely new chemical as a result. That's right. You cool that down, you mix it up with an acid in the base, evaporate it, and you are left with isolatesrgic diethylamide, isomerize it again, because if one is good, two is better. Then you have LSD, and it comes in the form of a crystallized powder, I believe. I think it also says you can also make it a liquid. No, you have to do something else to make it a liquid. So when you have LSD that you've synthesized from ergot alkaloids, it's a crystalline powder, a white powder. Yeah. And in the old days, in the could make micro dots, which is a tablet form. You could just mix it with liquid and use it. Like put this drop under your tongue right. Or make tea out of it or whatever. And then window pane, which was gelatin squares. So that's still around. I saw on Reddit some kid was like, look at this. And he's holding like a huge thing of window panes. And I think he called them window panes, too. Yeah, they're the great, great movie, Flirting with Disaster. Do they take gel tabs? Well, the sun, Lily, Tomlin and Allan, all the sun at the end of the movie doses everyone at dinner with window pane is what he calls it. And I always just think that it's a funny word for it. But these days you're more than likely going to see what's called blotter acid. And what they do is they just dissolve that powder in ethanol and then dip a sheet of blotting paper that's conveniently perforated into tiny little squares, about a quarter inch by a quarter inch. Yeah, they're little and soaks up into that paper. Sometimes the paper is just plain white. Sometimes it's got little cartoon characters and things a lot of times. And then that's a sheet of acid. Right? There's actually a dude in San Francisco who has an acid museum, and he has a book, like a huge binder of sheets of acid just to basically show off the artistry on it. And it's like, how has this not been rated by the DEA? I think the answer is, is because the DEA doesn't know it exists, it's probably fake, right? No, I would say that's stupid because it's a waste of money. Why would you put fake paper in there and tell everyone it's acid? Because he's not trying to sell it. He's trying to say, like, look at the art that people make. No, that's what I'm saying though. Why would he waste all that money putting the drug on something? He's buying it. I don't follow. Like he's going out and being like, wow, that's a really beautiful sheet of acid. I'm going to buy it and put it in my museum. Well, that's even dumber. So he said that these things have been exposed to light over the years and that they're most likely totally inactive. He said the last twelve times I tried to take it, it didn't work. He's like, but I traveled back in time. So each square is a dose, and you can get up to 900 doses on a single sheet. And we'll get to this later, but we might as well talk about it now. There was a Supreme Court ruling in early 90s where they said the weight of the drug is also the weight of the paper, which it's nuts. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people got really and remain upset about this. The argument is that's the equivalent of saying, well, this cocaine came in this suitcase, so just weigh the suitcase with the cocaine and if it adds \u00a38, then it adds \u00a38. Right. Instead of measuring the actual quantity of the drug itself, it's measuring the carrier device. Right. And one reason they did that was because the weight of again, LSD, when you're looking at a minimum dose of about a quarter of a microgram, that's like the weight of two grains of salt. So if you're trying to bust people, you could be like, well, a quarter microgram gets you a year. Well, that's why I don't see why they didn't do that. Just rewrite the law to reflect the weight of the real drug. I don't know. Because that's all they'd have to do. I know. It was very weird. Sam fisted. Yeah. Can I say that? Yeah, you just did. But the long and short of that is there are people that dealt acid at a fisher that are in prison for longer than rapists and murderers. Oh, yeah. There's a guy who is in prison for life without parole. He's like 66 now. He's been in there for a while because he got busted with some acid for life. He's spending his life in jail because he had acid with and he seen violent criminals all around him overall. Sure. Pretty interesting. So should we talk about what an LSD trip is like? Yes. According to whoever wrote this article, I think this is a Shayna Freeman joint. Yeah. I thought most of this was pretty good. There were a few parts that I was like, come on. It was very straightforward and logical and reasonable and rational and myth busting, too. Yeah, I agree. The hallucinations that one would have on LSD, I think there's a bit of a misnomer there in that some people might think, oh, I saw a pink elephant coming into the room and sit down beside me, and I thought it was real. That's not exactly what they mean by an LSD hallucination. What they mean more is I stared at the wall, and the wall looked like it was pulsating and breathing. Right. Or that painting had a glow around it. And it's also a case of not, oh, my God, what's happening to my brain? It's, oh, my God, this acid is awesome. Or bad or strong. But I know that I'm on a drug and it's making all these hallucinations happen. Precisely. Right. Is there a way to say it? Yeah, it's a great way to say it's away from the classical definition of a hallucination. You don't believe what you're seeing is, like, real. You realize that it's the result of the drug. Although I'm sure some people have taken acid and really thought, like, it's done such a number on their brain that they didn't know that they were on the drug. Which is why you have your buddy there to say, no, that's the acid. Right. Well, that's another point that Shane of Freeman makes in this article, is that because of the trip and what a profound impact it has on the brain, you typically want to trip with other people who have experienced tripping in a very calm place. And you mentioned set and setting earlier. I think that was Timothy Leary that came up with that. And set refers to mindset, and setting refers to the setting that you take your asset in. Right. So you want to be in a positive frame of mind, or else you're going to probably have a bad trip and you want to take it in a calm, comfortable setting like your home. Or Shana. Freeman suggests the park. Yeah. Maybe don't if you're stressed out about finals, maybe don't take acid before you go to class to take those finals. You're probably going to have a bad time. That would betray set and setting in a profound way. Exactly. So the trip itself typically lasts for something between maybe seven to 12 hours. About halfway through, you're going to experience what's called the peak. And the whole thing is going to really start about 30 to 60 minutes after you take acid. Yeah. And if you've ever been to college and seen someone taking acid on the dorm floor, you might hear a lot of, like, I don't know if it's working yet. I don't think it's working yet. I don't know. I think we got ripped off, man. I don't think and then all of a sudden, oh, wow. Yeah. And then you just shut the door and then you go and study like a good student. Right. Physically, Josh, you might have dilated pupils, increased blood pressure. Your body temperature might raise. You might get a little sweaty and dizzy. You might be drowsy. You might be tingly in the extremities. Right. Your stomach might feel kind of weird, have a metallic sensation in your mouth. Yeah. You're probably not hungry. Right. And you're seeing things in a very weird way. You'll probably start to notice patterns, basically in the air. You can see a wall breathing, like you said. Sure. You're going to see things in a different way than you normally do, is the best way to put it. In some extreme cases, some people have reported synesthesia triggering in them where their senses are basically getting mixed up. I wonder if they're sinistered. Maybe. And that, like, unlocked it. Maybe that's entirely possible because there's a pretty well established school of thought that says that if you are predisposed to a brain based mental illness like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, taking LSD can hasten its onset. It's not going to give you schizophrenia. It's not going to give you bipolar disorder. Right. But if you are already predisposed to it and the symptoms hadn't started yet right. It could hasten that true. Emotionally. Shayna points out that you kind of can run the gamut from happiness and euphoria. You love everything. You love everyone. Everything's magical. That's the key word right there. What's that? Magical? Yeah. Everything seems magical to you. Or it can go the other way. And you can have bad emotions, and that's probably part of the bad trip. If you go into it in the wrong headspace like we talked about. But that's the crux of it still. The magic is still the crux of it. Sure. Regardless of whether you're having a euphoric or a dysphoric experience, it still seems to have supernatural qualities to it. It's not just normal having a bad experience, bad mood kind of thing. It's like the universe is coming apart and it's all reflecting poorly on my life. Yeah. And I think with a lot of hallucinogenics, that's why they're used in spiritual and religious ceremonies all over the world, because it's a profound experience. It can make you very contemplative, the things you think. It can make people look inward and discover things about themselves. And so that's why, I mean, like ayahuasca ayahuska ayahuasca ayahuasca ayahuasca in the summer in Magic Mushrooms, we did a great episode on that. They've been used for millennia around the campfire for people to unlock these doors in their mind that they don't readily have access to the doors of perception. That's right. If you are an observer of people on LSD and you're not on LLC, you might think, man, they're talking a lot about really things that aren't very important. But to the person on the LSD, it's very important. It's the most important thing in the world at that moment. Right. The person not on LSD and the person on LLC will both mutually scare one another and usually end up in different rooms at a party. And then there is the time jumps. It just really will mess with your sense of time, according to research, and they will say that you might think you've been doing something for five minutes and it's been an hour, or it might be the reverse. Right. And you might not have any idea how much time is passing. So whether you're having a good trip or a bad trip, the one thing that all trips are going to have in common is that they end within about 12 hours or so. Like, the magical thinking goes away. What you would perceive as normal reality starts to step back in. And there may be some sort of emotional or mental hangover. Not a hangover like when the alcohol brings on, but more just like a whoa kind of thing. Yeah. After a profound emotional mental exercise or being put through the grinder, sure, you'll be awash in something. Yeah, agreed. But reality will return eventually. That makes sense that you would have an emotional hangover, Chuck, because LSD basically mimics the shape of serotonin and kind of hijacks your serotonin receptors, how it does its thing. So serotonin is, in part responsible for mood regulation, emotions, that kind of thing. So it makes sense that you'd be a little wacky the day after you trip on LSD. Interesting. Sometimes you might see, I always say, college students that keep picking on college students. About 98% of acid trips are undertaken by college students. You might see a college student admit themselves to the Er or call an ambulance. And the doctors like, this is a terrible decision on your part. Yeah. And you go, Why are you talking to me about this? Just heal me. And the doctor will patch you on the head and put you in a quiet room. No, the doctor coming to the hospital while you're on acid. I got you. But when you get to the Er, the doctor will pat you on the head, put you in a nice, quiet, dark room, reassure you that everything is okay. They may give you some anti anxiety meds or a tranquilizer to sort of chill you out a little bit, but basically, they just keep you in there. And tell a nurse, like, do me a favor. Every hour, go in there and make sure that guy isn't breaking some equipment right. And he'll be fine. And, you know, sounds like about 6 hours. Yeah. So that's tripping tripping 101. You want to take another break before we get into what's going on in your mind? Yeah, why not? All right, so everybody bear with us, man. So, Chuck, what's going on right now? Yeah, well, you just went and peeped. You went to the little podcaster's room, and now you're back during the break. That's what's going on. What's going on in the mind? You mean on LSD? Yeah. Funny you should ask. Here's the deal. When this article was written, she said, researchers aren't 100% sure what LSD is doing in the brain. They still aren't 100% sure. No, we have a better idea, though. A much better idea. Back a little bit. As of 2016. Well, yeah, this one was from 2011. A Yale psychiatrist named Andrew Sewell, one of the few dudes in the US. Who does psychedelic drug research. He's not L Seven. He's not square. Remember that band? L seven. Yeah. Very good. Remember it was them, the Breeders and For Non Blondes all came out with, like, great albums all at once. And Whole. Yes. I'm going to take issue with Whole. All right, I'll take that one back. Now. For non blonde. They have that. Hey, song. That whole album was pretty good. All right, one bad. Okay. I was listening to Pavement the entire time. Could listen to all of it. All right. I was listening to Pavement, too. No, I'm just kidding. I like Yale seven, though. Andrew Sul, he was a Yale psychiatrist, like I said, or maybe he still is. And he said at the time that it had to do with the Thalamus. Sensory impressions are routed through the Thalamus, which acts as a gatekeeper. So his theory at the time, which was built upon research from Franzvolenfida, Switzerland, said that drugs like LSD and Psilocybin, they tone down the Thalamus activity. So, in other words, the gatekeeper doesn't work. He locked into a spam filter on email, so it's not working as well. So it lets unprocessed information through to consciousness, which is a great explanation of it. That was 2011. You got that from live science, right? Yeah, I think so. That was a good explanation of it. Yeah. But we have brand new, hot off the press information, which doesn't necessarily contradict that. Right, agreed. So I think Imperial College of London researchers got their hands of some acid, gave them to some people and threw them in a wonder machine and looked at their brains. 20 volunteers. Volunteers, we should add, right. That had all taken LSD before. Yes. This wasn't against their will. No. And they wanted people that have tripped before and people that knew they could handle taking acid and being in an MRI machine, which we already have mentioned, is weird and loud and claustrophobic. Right, yeah, that's a good point. That was very wise with those guys. Yes. So the upshot of it was that we now have brain scans of people under the influence of LSD for the first time in human history. And it's really kind of opened up some new ideas for what's going on on an acid trip. And you should see the difference of these, like the comparison, the control brain scanning and the one on acid. It's like you don't even have to read the caption to know which one is which. Like, one is like, OK, I guess I'm thinking I'm aware of myself, my toe, which is, how am I going to pay the water bill this month? And then the other one is just like, yeah, like that. It's amazing what they said. I'm just going to read it because they say it better than I ever could. They said LSD simultaneously creates hyper connections across the brain, allowing the functions of seemingly unrelated regions of the brain to ooze into one another. At the same time, the drug apparently chips away at organization within networks. Like, all of this sounds like right on the money. Including a system the brain defers to at rest called the Default Mode Network. Yeah, it's a big one. Which normally governs functions such as self reflection bing, autobiographical memory bing, and mental time travel bing. Bing. Right. So what they're saying is that the idea that you see things differently, that you think about things differently, that you understand concepts like the universe and reality and your place in it differently than you normally do, is 100% accurate. Like, LSD changes literally the way you think about the world. By changing the connections in your brain. Yes. And notably, they point out in the would always hear a lot about the ego and the sense of self. Right. They think they have proven through brain scans that LSD literally makes you forget your sense of self for that time. Right. And it allows you to do something that LSD is very famous for, which is make you feel connected to the universe, to humanity, to the gazelle population, to everything. Just feel connected. And again, it's called ego dissolution. Right. Yeah. Which is one of the supports the notion that when you take acid with somebody, you have this bond with them, perhaps even a lifelong bond. They also found that the psychological effects in the individual as well have lasting impacts as well. So it's not just like you're on the drug, you're under the influence of the drug. What you're thinking and feeling is temporary. It actually creates a pronounced and most commonly positive change in the individual's outlook on life and sense of well being, which is pretty amazing. But now we have brain scans of it. The brain scans just in every way seem to support everything everyone has always said. Not everyone, but the people that weren't making up stories about acid. About acid. The people who never said, oh, I see a pink elephant in the room. That's right. The people who never went up to somebody and, like, wave their hand in front of their face. Oh, yeah, I saw somebody do that, like, a couple of summers ago at my neighborhood pool. Oh, really? There's this dude behaving strangely, and I was like, I wonder. And then somebody went up and went like that to him. I was like, oh, no. I know. Oh, wow. So super promising research, and I think it's awesome that they're looking into this stuff again. Are they doing this in the United States at all yet? Because didn't they sort of allow it again? Yes. Two years ago, there was a 2014 study with, like, twelve terminally ill patients with cancer in the United States. Yeah, but it's still, like, very small groups of scientists are probably working on that. Yeah, like twelve. Oh, yeah. And they're using very small study populations. But the results that they're finding. Like. In this case. That the cancer patients reported even twelve months on a more positive outlook on life. Despite the fact that their life was coming to an end prematurely. In their opinion. Because of the acid they're finding. Like. All of these studies that are being carried out are finding such sweeping conclusions about the potential for LSD to positively impact people's lives that all of them are like. We need more studies. More studies. More studies. We need more people involved in them. Let's get back to studying this, which we left off of, like, 40, 50 years ago for no good reason. And 40 and 50 years ago is when the scientists thought, like, they were on the cusp of making some real breakthroughs. When everything gets shut down. And back then, the way they do the studies now, it seems like a way better. They didn't have controls back then, but they didn't use controls in most of these experiments. Timothy Leary was carrying out these studies. Give me a break. All right, let's talk about acid flashbacks. Yeah, I mean, Shannon calls it very controversial among LSD users and researchers. I'm going to say false outright because there's zero evidence that it's a real thing and that the body actually retains some bit of LSD. You've heard the rumors, like, it's in your spinal fluid, it's in your fatty deposits, and years later, you can be sitting in a meeting and have a full on hallucinatory acid flashback. Right. There's no mechanism that this could be carried out by where there's, like just, like, your body stores some acid for later, and you start to trip again, suddenly there are people who have reported it, but it's entirely possible that they are mentally ill. Right. Or it's entirely possible they're suffering from something called hallucinogen persisting perceptive disorder. This sounds pretty awful if you ask me. Yeah, and I did a little more research. Apparently, this is linked to persistent LSD use, someone who's done a lot of acid, and even then, it's still not due to a build up of LSD molecules in the body. So maybe they rearrange their neural connections. Were they also predisposed to mental illness? Well, I think a lot of times it says current medical opinions divided as to the cause. Some people think it's a form of PTSD. Other people think there were changes in the brain morphology because they did so much acid. But it's still not like the old story. Like, you had acid in your body from a trip long ago. Right. Now you just reactivated it, just, like, burned out, sitting in the corner. Yeah. And supposedly in 10 00 19 91 is where this was all born. At an educational meeting for DEA agents in San Francisco, a speaker said he suggested that the rerelease of LSD hidden in the bodies of users led to untimely psychotic flashbacks. And no one has tape of this, but there are people that wrote about it, and all evidence points to this is where the acid flashback myth was born from this one speaker. That's really interesting. Yeah. Way to go, dude. So, again, we're talking about, like, there's a lot of hysteria surrounding LSD. People have died on LSD, what's that issue is. Well, a couple of fold. One is there a lethal dose of LSD. Yeah. That's never been proven. Right. Despite the millions of acid trips that people have taken, it's never been conclusively shown that LSD led to the death of a human being. Yeah. I would assume, like, there's a lethal dose of water. Right. So I would assume if you drank five gallons of LSD, you might die. But then it's so out of the realm of believability. It's just like, why even talk about it? Right? And there have been cases of people ingesting massive amounts of LSD. So the minimum dose is a quarter microgram, which is like, 25,000 of a gram, I believe. Is that, like, what an acid hit is these days? I think that's about a half of a hit. Okay. It's a mild hit, from what I understand. So if you go split season with your girlfriend, the pitch concert, then. You'd have, like yes, that would be that kind of dose, I guess. Right. So that's a very small amount. Like thousands of a gram. Some people have taken like no, thousands of a milligram. I'm sorry? That's the dose. Some people have taken milligrams of this stuff. Wow. Accidentally. There was a group of people in 1975 at a party, and they thought they were snorting cocaine, but it turned out they were snorting powdered LSD. Boy, oh, boy. And one person was shown to have ingested seven milligrams of LSD. Unbelievable. So that's like 70,000 times the minimum dose. Something like that, yeah. And I think this is actually in the Western Journal of Medicine, and most of the people just, boom. It knocked them out immediately. And they passed out. The people that were awake. Well, everyone went to the hospital. Right. Because it was bio accounts and overdose of LSD, but everyone was fine. So that's what it was. It's like 7000 micrograms. And a minimum dose is a quarter of a microgram. Yeah. Like 12 hours later, they were fine. And twelve years later, five of them are examined for years for long term issues. And no one had any issues at that party, at least. Right. There's another one, another person who shows up in one study. I'm not sure what the case was around it, but the person survived ingesting 40 milligrams, which is 40,000 micrograms wow. And apparently survived the toxic dose, the LD 50 dose, which is where half of the people who took that dose would be expected to die. Right. It's never been established. We don't know what it is, but it's huge. It's massive. So the pharmacological deaths from LSD have probably never happened. What has been documented is behavioral deaths. People who took risks, potentially, that they wouldn't normally have under the influence of LSD. Yeah. If you went swimming in a place they wouldn't have normally gone swimming, maybe jumped from a building, not because they thought they could fly or anything like that, but because I think I can make it to the ledge and go party over there. Whereas if they were under normal conditions, they wouldn't have engaged in that behavior. They have poor judgment, basically. Right. But again, those are pretty few and far between. Although when they do happen, they're tragic. Yeah. And there are also cases of, like, heart attacks and strokes. But with something like that, there's usually other drugs involved. And you can't conclusively say, like, the LSD caused the heart attack. Right. There's also apparently no documented confirmed report of somebody committing suicide under the influence of LLC. It's more like Art link letters. Daughter somebody who had taken LSD before, and their previous LSD use was blamed for it. But from what I could find, not a documented case of someone who was on LSD and went nuts and killed them. Right. And even then, I think that's a difficult thing to prove, that something caused something, right? Because then you start digging into that person's closet and find out that they were suicidal anyway. And this is a long time coming. Who knows? It's a tough thing to prove. The upshot of it is that the documented evidence of the positive effects that LSD can have on the human psyche vastly outnumber the recognized tragic events that have taken place as a result of LSD. Can I read this one part about heavy LSD users? Because this is kind of funny. Heavy LSD users can develop profound social problems, completely ruin their sleep cycles, and lose interest in eating and personal hygiene. They turn into hippies, is what they're saying. Yeah. And she says something I do take issue with that. There's no one in rehab for LSD. That's not true. There are people in rehab for LSD. It's not common. Because she rightly points out that when you do LSD and then you do it again the next day and then the next day and the next day, you build up a tolerance really fast and you just need more and more LSD and things it doesn't work after a very short time. Right. Like I said, things normalize and you don't get the experience you're looking for. Like most other drugs, it's not the kind of drug that you usually see people doing a lot of day in and day out all the time. Right. And what she's also saying is there's no means for becoming psychologically or physically dependent on it, which makes it a nonaddictive drug, although the Feds have it under Schedule One, which means that it has a high likelihood for abuse addiction, and that it has no medical usefulness whatsoever. So both of those two, that's false for both of the reasons that both of the criteria for a Schedule One drug. She also points out, and this is something I never considered, but I think makes a lot of sense, the effects of LSC aren't dependable. Like, you never know what you're going to get. And addicts crave that dependability, they want to know. Like cocaine will do the same thing to me every time. That bottle of Jack Daniels will do the same thing to me every time. That cigarette, yeah, but I don't know what I'm going to get out of acid. So it just doesn't lend itself to that sort of addictive nature. Pretty interesting. Plus, it's also further interesting that a lot of people have used I don't want to say a lot, I have no idea the number, but I know it's been used in the past. People have used LSD and other psychedelic drugs to quit addictions, like cigarette smoking, like alcoholism. And again, you mentioned, can you treat mental illness with psychedelics episode, which is awesome, but we talked about that in that episode, too. All right, Josh, I know this is a long one, plus we got the Hodgman, but this is going to be our first two hour show. Oh my gosh. But we can't finish the show unless we talk a little bit about the cultural history, notably someone you mentioned, Timothy Leary. Dr. Timothy Leary actually worked at Harvard almost single handedly is responsible for the initial boom turn against LSD by the public and science. He took what was a legitimate field of inquiry and made it completely illegitimate. Like he's almost single handedly to blame for acid being for science turning its back on acid. Yes. He had a loud voice and talked about a lot of, like, hippy dippy things that people didn't like, scientists didn't like them associating it with LSD. He founded a church yeah. Where LSD was the sacrament of it. The League for Spiritual Discovery. Previous to that, though, at Harvard, he and his colleague Richard Albert, we're actually trying to study it a little more legitimately. Then he got fired from Harvard in 63, and that's when he sort of went full bore toward tune in, turn in, drop out, which he regrets that phrase, and he should not be blamed for that because he said later on that he did not mean like, drop out of society. He said that it was taken like that people took it to mean get stoned and abandon all constructive activity. Right. And that's not at all what he meant. That when he was saying turn on he was saying, like, turn on your brain. Yeah. Turn on your brain. Like turn on your potential. Let's get things going. Tune in to interact harmoniously with the world around you. Sure. And then drop out with become self reliant, not dependent on the man. Basically an after school special that he was trying to make sure basically the more you know and it was taken. People take things like water. They're looking for the path of least resistance in a lot of ways. So they took it to me and like, oh, it's great. Timothy Leary just gave us all a license to not do anything useful and didn't help. Really upset all the crew cuts over there who are carrying everybody right now. Then there was Ken Kesey, author of many books, notably One Floor with a Cuckoo's Nest, which that alone makes them greater. Yeah. Or just like a major contributor to popular culture. Agreed. Or culture even. Yeah, just that. Agreed. He was notable for being a part of the Mary Pranksters, which is documented in the great Tom Wolf book the Electric Koolaid Acid Test. Favorite books required reading really good. And it documents in Mary prankster was basically a school bus, psychedelically painted full of hippies, driving around with gallons and gallons of acid at the time when the cops had no idea what acid was or when it was not yet illegal. Yeah. But he got into acid because of the CIA. He was a volunteer in the late fifty s to dose himself. And he was what did she call him here? And acid populist. He was one of those that thought, everybody needs to do this and it'll be a different world. Right. And then finally Mr. Owsley. Stanley. All the Deadheads out there just went, about time. They were so mad. Why? They never get mad. They don't get mad because they get even. They have a profound social interaction problem. He was a chemist who was in Hayde Ashbury in San Francisco, studied at Cal Berkeley, and he was like, you know what? I'm taking a lot of bad LSD and so I'm going to start making it myself. He was a self talk chemist. Did you say that? Yeah. Wow. And he got really good at it. And Alzheimer LSD became the standard for good clean acid in the they used them at the acid Tests, which Ken Kesey used to hold in San Francisco. And the grateful dad used to play. And aslee Stanley was also the sound engineer, did he create the wall of sound? Was that his doing? No, that was Phil Specter. Okay. But he was the Dead's original sound man. And what he got known for was he was one of the first people to mix concerts, live in stereo and plug right into the board. So all those old Deadheads love to trade the old bootlegs. Those bootlegs sound so good? Because of Algaly. Got you. Because he was an innovator. He was a sound man, and he was one of the first investors in the Dead financially. He was a millionaire. Alistair Millionaire said he made like 10 million hits of acid in his lifetime. Yeah. He gave away a lot of it, though. There was one sit in, I can't remember what it was called, where he gave out and by all accounts, 300,000 people took acid all in one place. Wow. Where I had to be. San Francisco. Oh, yeah. Also designed the steely with Bob Thomas. The very famous lightning bolt skull logo on the Grateful Dead album steal Your Face Right Off of Your Head was designed by Alsley. Did not know that. Yeah. And now all the Deadheads are going, okay, you mentioned the steely. Okay. I'm sure we got some two and a half hours in. And acid is making a bit of a comeback in San Francisco, too. Among all the little technocrats that took that town over and raised. What, they're tripping and stuff? Not really tripping. Their micro dosing. Basically, Albert Hoffman had the idea that taking minuscule amounts of LSD could improve cognitive function. So basically they're getting better at coding. They're taking it and going to work and not fully tripping, but just having it's, having some effect. Supposedly. That's like the new thing with acid. Yeah. And that is another reason I want to punch San Francisco in the face. You are not the town you used to be and they all know it. So don't get mad at me. It's true. There's also some other stuff took. Like apparently, if you buy LSD these days, there's a really high likelihood that you're actually getting something called NBOM 25 I-N-B-O-M-E. Is it just another chemical? It's like a much more intense psychedelic that's very similar to LSD, but it does have shown toxic effects. Like, people actually have died from overdoses on this thinking that they had LSD, which is not cool, man. No. You don't sell something saying it's one thing, stay away from the orange sunshine. And then there's also some other thing called one P LSD, and it's LSD with an extra pro pioneel bond that technically makes it legal that apparently it's open season on the Internet with that stuff right now. Kamal Nanjiani, the great comedian and friend of the show, has a great bit about some designer drug, which is heroin and Tylenol. Cold medicine. Oh, codeine. Yeah. Like, with heroin. Okay. It's just funny. He's like, you're already doing heroin, right? He's like, the heroin is enough. Yeah, it just seems like well, these are not waxing nostalgic for the good old days of just acid, but it seems like if people are dying on something they think is acid, then maybe you're not doing it right. There you go. So, Chuck, I think that's it. That's LSD, man. This could have been a two parter. It could have been, but we're not greedy. We stayed true. Just one. Yes. If you want to know more about LSD, just type those three letters into the search bar, howstep works.com, and it will bring up this great article. And since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. That's right. Very special listener mail featuring Mr. John Hudson. Right here, right now. Yeah. Okay. So here we are with an audio listener mail, because, as I read previously in the teaser, judge John Hodgman, aka John Hodgman of The Daily Show, aka. Hodgy right, is here, and he refused to send us anything in print, so he just said, why don't you have me on, and we can duke it out over nostalgia once and for all. Hello, you guys. Hey, John. Nice to talk to you both. So, John, it's good to talk to you, too. I think fondly about the times in the past when we have spoken before, but I always look forward more to the times when we may speak again, because time moves in one direction, and that is forward, and that is the direction I'm interested in. That's the little included intro to Happy Trails, the song is that so time moves in one direction, and that is the one I'm interested in. Yeah. It's known as the lost version, and then it's followed by him, the one. So, John, you listened to the nostalgia episode, right? We were pretty hard on you. Yeah. I don't know what you guys were so mad at me about. You, especially Jane, I feel we're stunned by the premise that I've stated frequently has settled law on my own Judge John Hodgman podcast, available@maximumfund.org for free or on itunes, that nostalgia is the most toxic impulse. And I admit that I employ a little hyperbole in that statement, but I think at its core, I believe that it is true that nostalgia my point of view is that nostalgia that is a yearning for the past is at best unproductive and at worst poisonous. So, John, we talked about this. Chuck introduced your radical views about nostalgia on the nostalgia episode. Right. You left a theory, right? How did you come to this conclusion about nostalgia? Like where you nostalgia things and bit your tongue off or something? What happened to make you feel this way about nostalgia, if I may ask? I don't know that there was any one particular turning point, because the truth is that I am a guy who likes old timey things, right? And this is not to say old timey things are bad. I grew up going to the Coolidge Corner movie house in Coolidge Corner, Brookline, Massachusetts, which is my hometown. You wrote a Penny farthing to work. I'm not that kind of loathsome, but at that time, all they would do is show old Marks Brothers movies and the Thin Man marathons and even more recent old movies, as it were. And I would love going into so called nostalgia stores to pour through old movie posters, and I love used bookstores. I love the trappings of scene culture, what it was like at a time that was different from the way it is in my own life. I love to rummage through junk stores and thrift stores and find stuff. And in listening to your podcast, I completely felt with you, I guess that is called empathy, that's different feeling with empathy. No, I mean, empathy and nostalgia are different. No, but I felt empathy for your individual expressions of the things that give you that wispy feeling of nostalgia and how that is, in a personal mode, a very comforting feeling, because I can speak honestly. When my mom passed away about 15 years ago, I could not engage with any culture that was more challenging than reading the Dorling Kindersley books of Star Wars vehicles. That was the only thing I could read before going to sleep because I was in such emotional pain in the present. Had you read those as a younger Lad? Well, no, because they didn't exist. But those DK books of the Star Wars vehicles that sort of give you these cross sections of all the vehicles, I was not engaging with new culture per se. I was just revisiting my feelings about Star Wars. Do you know what I understood? Yeah. So I wasn't exactly playing with old toys, like playing with my old at. I never had the at. Nor did I have the Millennium Falcon. I never had either one of those two. And I'm a little bitter about it still. Yeah, I know. Those were the big ticket items. But for sure, from my point of view, storage was a real problem with those things. Very untidy. Well, they served as storage boxes themselves. Really? Yeah, but you couldn't put the ad into the Millennium Falcon and none of them fit into any good size shelf. And even as a nine or ten year old neurotic only child, I had real tidiness issues. But I will say that I wasn't at a point where I would be playing with my old lobot figurine. It was my favorite in bed as a grown man next to my wife to fall asleep. I would certainly read about the propulsion mechanism of a best pin twin cloud car I got you, for sure. And really dig into those weeds and prod those feelings. And indeed, today it's still the case that I have two things on my nightstand because night is the time and going to bed is the time when you might be most prompted to feel nostalgia. Because on the one hand, you're trying to ease yourself to rest and on the other hand, as you grow older in particular, you realize that every going to sleep time is a rehearsal for your own death. So whatever you're anxious about can really come out at night or in the middle of the night, right when you wake up during second sleep, which is a concept that I heard about first on the Great Stuff You Should Know podcast, available on the How Stuff Works network. Right. And so on my bedside table, both real and virtual, I have two sets of culture, right? One is new stuff that I've never read before or encountered before or watched before or whatever it is that's going to be challenging or interesting or provocative, even if it's only because I've never seen it or read it or listen to it. And then there's the older stuff that's going to reconnect me with a feeling that I might have had in the past. But even in the older stuff, like, I got a pile of old Avengers comics from the 70s which are dumb and profoundly unchallenging and remind me to some degree of what it felt like to be a little kid buying comics on a rack. But even those are comics that I've not really read before because they were before my time. But I get it. I totally appreciate and was illuminated, I should say, by your podcast for pointing out that this personal therapeutic aspect of transporting yourself or giving yourself a good feeling by re encountering culture from your past or thinking about good times from your past is real and measurable and scientific, right? That was part of your conclusion, correct? Yeah, right. I am on board with you for that. That nostalgia from a personal point of view can be a truly soothing therapeutic tool that can help calm you during periods of stress and disorder in your life. And that's like a drug, though right? And it's like all drugs, it should be used in moderation. And there's a reason for that specifically, because I think that it is when overused, it is a drug that can cause truly deleterious effects on the happiness of your life. And here's the reason. Why is this the crux? The Crux is 30, 40 minutes off. Well, look, I'm going on a long disposition, in part because I love the sound of my own voice, and in part because you guys called me up, because I refused to write any of this down for free just because you mentioned my name in a podcast. So you can either take the free essay or not, but if you'd like to jump in and challenge me on any of this, I'm always glad to do this in a more back and forth manner. Well, no, the reason neither one of us challenge is because you've so far totally agreed with everything we believe about nostalgia. Basically. Yeah. Here's where it turns dark when it turns toxic is in overuse or overapplication. And there are two ways that that can happen but figuratively poison to oneself or to society at large. And here is the reason why it is a dangerous drug. Nostalgia is founded on a fallacy, on a delusion that has two parts. One, that the past was better. Not true. Not true. Are you I think he's agreeing with you. No, I'm not. Go ahead. Right. Quite right, Chuck. Not true. Because my brain just stripped out. There is no rosy past in your life or in your imagining of your societal life that does not have counter examples of why it was actually far worse. Sorry to interrupt. John. You agree with that, don't you, Chuck? No, that's one of the things I fully disagree with. Sometimes things were better in the past. Okay. All right. Pick a time. Huh? Pick a time. No, I'm not talking about an era. I'm talking about personally. Sure. In someone's life, there were times that are better than others. Of course. So you're talking about as an error. Yes. Okay. That's where I misunderstood you. Yeah. So, okay, you could make an argument like my experience of, say, the 1980s. Yeah. You could say that my experience of the 1980s was better than my experience now. And that might be true for your personal experience, but that might not be true if you were a gay man dying of age. Right. Yeah, I've just been diagnosed. I think I've misunderstood you all these years, and that you are always saying, even on a personal level times we're not better, and it's just a misremembering of the past. Yeah, because it sounds like everything John is saying. We cover it on the podcast, on this nostalgia episode. Yeah, well, this is exactly right, because I've explained all of this to Chuck before, and he obviously misremembered it from the past because memory is absolutely selective. And I think the common aspect of nostalgia that we can agree on is that there is one constant to one's reimagining of the past. It is reimagining of a time when you were younger and that's always better than being older. True. Sure. Just because you're too dumb to know what is really going on, you don't have the responsibility that you're saddled with as an adult that you can make a lot of cases that for the average person, childhood was easier and more enjoyable than adulthood. In a lot of ways, quite so for the average person. That's quite true, I think. And also, even if a person had a terrible childhood, there was still at a time when their whole life was laid ahead of them and they could have dreams and ideals. But now that we're getting into our late thirty s and for me mid 40s, it's all just coming to an end. But the second part of the delusion is that the past is attainable in some way and I don't think either of you are suffering from this particular nostalgia. But let me say this the thing that turned me against nostalgia I just remembered what it is in some ways. One of the things I was comforting myself and I had two big body blows in the year 2000 and then the year 2001 and that was the death of my mother in the year 2000 and then the World Trade Center tax in the year 2001 and there was a lot of Star Wars reading and taking of volume that I had stolen from my mother's medicine cabinet after she passed away in order to get through those long and difficult it's fair game. Well, you know what? Nostalgia is a comforting pill to take. But there are actual comforting pills to take and if you take too much of them, it's a problem because on a personal level you might become mired in nostalgia to the point where you become depressed with your everyday life and because you know on a level you can't regain the past that you have convinced yourself was better and more glorious. That is a bad state to be in. And if you want to learn more about that, listen to Dana Gould's incredible monologue about Buddhism and its rejection of the past and its disconcer with the future and the embrace of the present on his own podcast, the Dana Gouldower especially the episode Happy Sad, right? But the other thing that I was engaging with was a movement of jihad which is hardly unique but was on my mind at that time that is founded on a principle of nostalgia. Radicalized jihadis, right? Like a lot of radicalized right wing terrorists in the United States believe that the past was better and that the present is corrupt and that we can do something to get back to the way it was. Well, John, not just with jihad, I think with any conservative and especially ultra conservative movement in not just religion, but also politics, economics. Just about any body of ultra conservative people seem to harken back to the past and want to bring it back so that the future is more like some idealized past. No, not more. Not more like exactly like. I wouldn't even say that it's a far right impulse. There are certainly far left utopian impulses that express the same sort of if we just get that this is where we went wrong, and if we go back here and freeze here, it will be better. Yeah, but I don't have any problem with anyone can do whatever they want. People like what they like. And if you as a society want to isolate yourself from contemporary society, like the Mennonite movement or the Amish movement or what have you, and try to hold your own ground in contemporary culture because you think that is a better way to live, go for it. As long as you're not hurting anyone else, that's great, but don't be deceived. Star wars is itself an entire story premised on nostalgia. Things were better before the Empire, and if we blow up enough human beings, we can make it good again. We can make the galaxy great again. And does that rhetoric have any echoes with today, any one presidential campaign ring a bell when I say we can make the galaxy great again? We're going to win so much against the Empire that it's going to make your head spin. I think I've had this fight with you guys before. There's a reason Star Wars isn't science fiction. It's pure fantasy because it is nostalgic in its very DNA, and that makes it a great story. Right, but as soon as you start having political movements founded on the idea that we actually can turn back time, then I feel that was the moment, I suppose, that I began to feel like, oh, yeah, you know what? I want to close this Star Wars book because I can't go back to that. I'm in an uncomfortable new present, and my job as a human is to make the best of it now. And so I did, although I still dip back into it from time to time. So now you just watched The Force Awakens, basically, is what you're saying. Well, I feel like I had a cultural obligation to watch The Force Awakens, and I enjoyed it once. But the thing that I enjoy about it the most is that it is attempting to move the story forward. And I am happy to care about characters in a very familiar world, but I'm happy to care about characters that I've never seen before and be concerned about what's going to happen for them in the future as contrasted to the prequel trilogy, which still exists no matter what people say, which completely misunderstood a lot of things. But one of the things that misunderstood was that if you have a movie that is founded. If you have a movie like Star Wars or Empire or Jedi, one big trilogy that is founded on nostalgia, that the past was better than the present, and if we blow up enough stuff, we can get back to that wonderful past, then you cannot show the story of the past, because all the past will reveal is it was terrible then, too. People were just as corrupt. There is just as much bad stuff going on and there is no good path to get back to. So in many ways. Those three prequel trilogies were dark in the sense even in their lightest moments. In the sense that they were basically about the corruption of foreign interventionism as policy and misusing military for personal agendas and all sorts of weird crypto critiques of the George W. Bush administration. For which those movies don't get a whole lot of credit because they're terrible and not fun to watch. But they're much more rooted, not surprisingly, in a middle to elderly aged man's appreciation of what life is really like. That is to say, George Lucas. Then the first three trilogy, the original trilogy, was when he made it at a much younger age and he could afford to be nostalgic. Wow. Mine is blown, right? Yeah, that's what I do all day. You just blow minds. That's right. Hang on. Josh was threatening to auction off my Skype. I'm not scared to tell you. It's hodge hyphen, man. Oh, boy. Yeah. If you catch me on Skype and I feel like picking up, I'll blow your mind, too. Nice. You're like weird. El Yankovic hodgman. Why does he answer his own phone? He once tweeted that he was, like, hanging out in, I think, the Minneapolis airport. And here's the number for a payphone he's standing next to. So give him a call and some fan called and you talk to him for, like, 20 minutes. When was this? A couple of years back, 25 years ago, when there were pay phones. However, there was a time when there was Twitter and pay phones. Yeah, there was like a six month period. And weirdo made the best of it. Well, he's nothing if not resourceful. That was those are great days. I remember one time the phones coincided. Yes, I know. You know what? That's true. It really was. It was a golden age for Twitter. It was we need to get back to that. Yeah. You know what? I can acknowledge that there was a golden age for Twitter when it was different and a little bit more playful because it was so much smaller. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but there's no way to go back. And you've just moved forward. Haven't you've gone from Twitter to Instagram now as your jam, is that correct? Well, I use all of my social needs, my Instagram, my Tumblr and my Twitter, and all for different things. I still have a deep fondness for Twitter. I don't do anything with Facebook, and I apologize. Y'all you snapchatting. No, I didn't. I couldn't get into that. I couldn't add another thing to my portfolio. I was already overburdened. And Facebook. There's a Judge John Hodgman Facebook page, which is wonderfully maintained by Max Fund. There's an official John Hodgman fan page, which is wonderfully maintained by a fan of mine, Benjamin, in San Francisco, and I'm grateful to him for it. And all of my social needs feed into those things. And if you're on Facebook and you want to follow them, you can find them or whatever. But my social media sort of declination is Instagram to Tumblr, to Twitter, but sometimes it just get deep into Twitter again because it's just for the old times, you know what I mean? You're on fishbob. Are you on deck chair? Am I on toggle switch? Am I on matchbook car? Am I on Cyborgate? You're just looking around the room right now? I'm just subscribing. Am I on? Bottle of sand. Am I on coffee? Cup of lead? So, John, I think in closing, I think the one thing I would ask is that you revise your mantra to nostalgia can, for many people, sometimes be a toxic impulse. Yeah, good mantra. Check. Or it sounds like it should be revised with something like, nostalgia is the most toxic impulse society as a whole can engage in. I like that one. Josh Sorry, Chuck. That's all right. That's a nice full sentence. It needs some work, Ms. I'm going to go to his mind on fishbob, but I stand behind it. Thanks, John. Thank you, guys. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. You know, I'm such a supporter of stuff you should know. Podcast, this very podcast, and I'm grateful always for the support that you offer me. Yeah. And we will see you in New York, right at our Bellhouse shows. Both of them, I assume. Yeah. You want to announce when those are? Yeah. Well, we already have. They're already sold out june 29 and 30th. Well, let me tell you about something that isn't sold out, okay? June 9, I will be appearing at Largo at the Coronet. Oh, we've done that. That's fun. Wonderful theater there on La Cuenega for a one night only performance of my latest stand up talking, funny storytelling, personal story show. Which one? Vacation Land. We've seen that. It's good. Thank you very much. Yeah, you guys saw it in Atlanta when I was down there, and I am bringing it to Los Angeles for one night only before the Max Fund con. Yeah. Which is the thing that is involved with the Maximumfund.org podcast network, where you can hear my judgejohnhodgman podcast. So those are all things you can find out about@johnhodgman.com or just remember what I said and remember it was the best thing you ever heard, and you wish you could hear it again. Hey, you and I will be doing our annual bar trivia show at Maxwell Con. I know, but you know what? Now you're just making people sad because they can't go to anything that's all sold out. The only thing you can do, people, is buy tickets for my show at Largo on June. It's the only ticket available. Where do they go to buy those? John. They go to Johnhodgeman Dot. Comtor, and there's a link directly to the Largo ticket page from there. I think it's largofenla. Net. Do what I said. Go to johnhodgman. Comtor. Yes. And everyone we can attest that. That will be a very good show. Yeah. And you can find John and all his social needs. Yeah, I'm nostalgic for the time when we called it social media. Well, we're moving on now. It's not even called sosh means now it's called Sonys. All right, lovely to talk to you guys. I will sign off now. That is all. I was not expecting jihad to make an appearance. Were you? I was not expecting Jihad Donald Trump or Darth Maul to make an appearance. Thanks a huge amount to Hodgman. We appreciate it for coming on. And the next time we have some sort of disagreement, we'll have them back. Yeah, always a pleasure. And if you want to get in touch with us in the meantime, you can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on facebook. Comstuffiesheno. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@housestepforks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyshow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit household. Stuff works.com." | ||
a629e36a-5462-11e8-b449-63a2ce9f3293 | How the Stanford Prison Experiment Worked | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-the-stanford-prison-experiment-worked | The infamous Stanford Prison Experiment wasn't really much of an experiment as it turns out. It was more like a poorly thought out exercise conducted by a professor who didn't dot the i's and cross the t's. | The infamous Stanford Prison Experiment wasn't really much of an experiment as it turns out. It was more like a poorly thought out exercise conducted by a professor who didn't dot the i's and cross the t's. | Thu, 05 Jul 2018 14:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2018, tm_mon=7, tm_mday=5, tm_hour=14, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=186, tm_isdst=0) | 44262806 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, everyone. We're coming to Salt Lake City, Utah and Phoenix, Arizona this fall. Yeah. October 23, we're going to be at Salt Lake City's. Grand Theater. And then the next night, October 24 will be in Phoenix. And we added a second show to our Melbourne Burns show, right? That's right. A second, earlier show in Melbourne. So you can get all the information for all of these shows@sysclive.com. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and this is Charles W, Chuck Bryant and Jerry's over there. So why don't you pull up a chair, kick back and tell us about your problems? Because this is psychology stuff. We should just call this episode the Stanford Prison Experiment, aka perhaps the hackiest experiment of all time. And it's really not an experiment anyway. No, but it's the most famous psychology experiment ever. Yeah, I got kind of ticked off while I was researching this. You should, man. Because I used to think it was cool. Like, oh, man, what a cool experiment. Yes. Everybody is evil. It's core. Yes. Then I researched it and I was like, this is a bunch of BS, all of it. This is one of the worst executed experiments I've ever heard of. That is so funny because while I was researching this, I was like, I'm going to have to keep it together. Maybe at the end I can really go off. Let's go off at the beginning. That's great, man. Yeah. I watched the movie today, too, the 2015 one. Yeah. How was Billy crud up? Because I loved him in Almost Famous. Well, I'm a fan. He was good, but I don't know. The movie A was pretty sensationalized. As far as the violence. They showed a lot of straight up physical violence in the movie, which supposedly didn't occur. Right. Like beating them with billy clubs and hog tying them and like, real violence. Hollywood, actually, these days, I should say Atlanta. Yeah. Yllywood is what they call it. Oh, there you go. Perfect. That sounds like a Norman Reedus creation. It might have been Norman Reedus. What was I saying? I don't feel like it came down hard enough on this yahoo. What was the guy's name? Zimbardo. Yeah, Zimbardo. For just crafting a really doing a very poor job at crafting a supposedly scientific experiment. No, he was like the driving force behind that movie getting made. Apparently. He'd been trying to get a movie made in America. He seems to be a pretty famous self promoter for decades. Yeah, it's not a good quality in a social psychologist now. So we're going to see. I guess we let the cat out of the bag, but we shall see that the Stanford Prison Experiment, one of the most famous experiments in the annals of psychology, is not an experiment at all. No. Its findings are wide open to interpretation. And it was conducted by a showman, basically. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's a red flag when you don't publish your findings in a medical journal. You publish them in New York? Was it new York Magazine. New York Times Magazine. The Hodgman's Rag. Wow. Great rag. But that's not the place to go publish scientific findings. No. Peer reviewed journals are yeah, and they circumvented that. Yeah, but for very good reasons. All right, so let's talk about the outline. So let's go back to the beginning. Right? Yeah. Back to the year of my birth at Stanford University. Sure. Which is what? Palo Alto. Yeah. Go fighting sequoias. What is there? They have, like, a big old sequoia on their logo, I think it's like and then they have a sequoia with its fists up. Or is it a leprechaun? That's Notre Dame I'm thinking of. I do feel like it has something. Chuck's looking it up, everybody. So let me stall. It is a tree. The Stanford Tree. I don't know what the mascot is, but there's definitely a tree associated no, I looked it up. The Stanford Tree. Okay, cool. And the first question is, why is it a tree? What's the answer? Well, I'm sure it's just because of where it is in California. But that doesn't answer the real question, which is why would you have a tree? Right. Philips and Bardos. And they're like, Quit stall and get to the heckling. He's still around. Yeah, he is. All right, we're at Stanford is 1971. Yeah. We're actually in the basement of one of the buildings at Stanford University, I think, like Campbell Hall or something like that. And I think August of 1000 971, there were 24 young men, almost all of them I think one of them was Asian American. And they are doing something pretty bizarre in this basement. In August of 1971, they've been divided into two groups, guards and prisoners. Supposedly average kids. Right. And they are acting out this basically role playing game of guards versus prisoners for $15 a day in a simulated prison in the basement of this hall at Stanford University. Yeah. Which would be about $93 today, funded by the US. Office of Naval Research. Is that right? So it would be $93 a day, and it was originally going to be two weeks. So I'm sure some of these guys are like, Heck, yeah. I mean, I kind of forgot what it was like to be a college student. That'd be between twelve and $1,400. Starting off your summer. It'd be about one $302, if my quick math is correct. Good scratch for a 21 year old. Yeah. Two weeks on summer break. That's right. So you were divided into two lots. Like you said, they asked people supposedly what you wanted to be, unless this was purely a movie creation. And I did try and look up and try and find out the differences. Yeah. But they supposedly assumed most everyone said, or in fact, everyone said prisoner. And one of the reactions from who ended up being the bad guard. The guy said they asked him why, and he's like, Because nobody likes guards. Right. It's like, why would anyone want to be a guard? Because they thought we'll just be prisoners. Because they just will lay around and smoke cigarettes. Right. And we'll kind of unpack what that suggests later on. Sure. Okay, so you've got these guys, and they're down here for this experiment. And so coming at it from the way this is the popular interpretation of what happened at the Stanford Prison Experiment. Okay? Yes. You've got twelve guards and twelve prisoners. The prisoners had been arrested, by the way, by the real Palo Alto Police. Yeah. They weren't told when, but, like, the real cops came by, arrested each one of them for a variety of crimes, booked them at the Palo Alto Police Station, and then transported them to the jail. The fake jail at Stanford. Yeah. They call it the Stanford County Jail. And they did a legit job. They put up signs. They had these rooms decked out like jail cells. They had a hole. They did a really believable job of making this seem like a prison environment, at least. Right. So you've got these prisoners who have been delivered. You've got these guards who are waiting there for them. And as far as Zimbabwe has ever said, these guards were told you have to protect the prison, and everything else is up to you. The only rule is there's no physical punishment. We're just here to observe. Yeah. Like, here's your uniforms, here's your sunglasses. Yeah. And then the prisoners were booked in with wearing smocks. Yeah. No shoes, no underwear. Yeah. Naked under the smocks, chained at the ankles. And then they wore, like, those stocking captain rags. They had a penny on their head to simulate they're having their head shaved. Right. And this is the early seventies, so most of them had these big afros and long hair and stuff under these panties. Right. So at first, everything is pretty normal. The guards don't quite know what to do. They're a little timid. The prisoners apparently relish this immediately and started finding where the guard's boundaries were, and they started to band together. And there was actually, I think, on day two, the turnover from day one to two. There was a prisoner riot. Yeah. Like you said, they were sort of laughing at first, and I think we didn't mention too, and this will end up being very, very problematic. In the first sign that he didn't do a good job, Zimbardo actually acted as the superintendent of the prison, involved himself in his own experiment, and he had some graduate assistants that were assisting in the program. They acted as parole board, and one of them was the warden that was undergrad, actually. Well, the warden, Jaffe, his last name is Jeffrey. He was an undergrad at the time. And actually, he had come up with the experiment on his own. Oh, he was the guy. And then Zimbardo was like, this is a really good idea. Let's do this for real. Imagine the press. So, yeah, like you said, it escalated pretty quickly. After kind of laughing at first, these guards got into their roles, to say the least, and really kind of started being jerks in quick order. And after, the prisoners were like, hey, this is kind of funny, you're not being very cool. And they were kind of smacked down and made to do things like push ups and jumping jacks, and they would withhold food, and eventually they would take their beds away from them and stuff. It just got worse and worse. And there was, I think, like you said on day two, an uprising. They got together, threw the COTS off their beds and through the bed frames against the door and wouldn't let them in. Right. So there was a prisoner riot. Yeah. That's pretty significant. Right. And what's equally significant is that the guards, by the second day, started to show signs of real cruelty toward the prisoners. They started treating them very poorly. They started engaging in, basically, acts of torture, like waking them up randomly in the middle of the night, making them get up, like you said, push ups, which is interpreted as physical punishment because, again, you couldn't hit them with the rubber hose, you couldn't hit them with the baton, you couldn't punch them. But if you make somebody do a bunch of pushups, that's physical punishment, too. Yeah. And it was within the bounds, apparently. Yeah. They were referred to only by their prison numbers. They would never say their names. They were made to memorize everyone else's prison number, and they would line them up and tell them to repeat their numbers for an hour if they didn't do it fast enough. And then in reverse order, they would get punishment. They would do the kind of the classic moves of holding one responsible for the punishment of others. Yeah, that's a big one. Like, if you didn't make your bed good enough, then no one could go to sleep, stuff like that. The guards also innovated carrots here, there too. They actually made one cell, like, a good sell. They put a bed in it with, like, bedding. If you were in that cell, you were eligible for good meals better than what the other prisoners had. And there were room for three inmates in there at a time. And so it instilled this sense of competition and skullduggery, I guess, backstabbery among the prisoners to curry favor with the guards, like, by informing on the other one so that you could get a chance to be in, like, the nice cell. Yeah. And I think even before that, when they went to stage the uprising, I don't think there were three rooms of three, and I think six of them, two of the rooms participated. And one of the rooms did not, because not all the guys, not all the prisoners, like, rebelled as much. Some of them just kind of went along with it. Interestingly, some of the guards did not descend into cruelty. Right. They actually some of them did, like, favors, went out of their way to be nice to the prisoners. But the grabster who wrote this article points out very significantly, they didn't stand up to the cruel guards or officially object to their behavior. Right. They went along with it, but then they thought they had to, in their own way, they did what they could to retain their humanity. So there are two huge points, and one of them there's one among the guards and one among the prisoners. And the one among the prisoners comes 36 hours after the beginning of the experiment. And this prisoner, his name, it would later be revealed, was Douglas Corpy. He had an emotional breakdown, a nervous breakdown. 36 hours after this experiment starts, one of the prisoners become so emotionally involved in this simulated prison at the cruelty, the supposedly cruelty of the guards, that he had a nervous breakdown well, and had to be removed from the experiment. This is the official line for the Stanford Prison Experiment. Right. And has been for decades. Yeah. He also said that one of them broke out in a psychosomatic rash. There was all manner of various levels of psychological breakdowns happening on the other side. The big star among the guards was a guy named John Wayne, who you referenced earlier. Yeah. His name was Dave Eschelman, and he was the one who was the ringleader. He's the one that came out as the most brutal guard of them all. And all the other guards kind of fell in line behind him and took their cues from him. So this whole thing is going on. This is crazy town, this place. In six days, this thing descends into chaos. Supposed to be two weeks. Yes. There were rumors that there was going to be a breakout, and so they moved the experiment. That guy, Douglas Corpie, who had a nervous breakdown, ended up getting put into the hole, this broom closet, for, I think, overnight and was finally released because the researchers actually stepped in and said, you should probably let them out. It was just utter chaos. And then eventually, Philip Zimbardo's girlfriend at the time, a woman named Christine Maslow yeah. His wife to be. Oh, she married him, huh? Yeah, still married. So she came and just dropped in to see how things were going and was so outraged at what she saw that she was like, you're so far beyond the line. You have to stop this now. This is descended into chaos. You can't do this. These people are treating these prisoners horribly. Like, how are you letting this go on? And he went, I'm okay, fine. And so the next day, he canceled the experiment again, after six days, and it was scheduled to go on for two weeks. And so he comes out. Tells the world in this New York Times Magazine. Guys. If I took you. Josh. And I took you. Chuck. And put you as guard and prisoner in even a simulated prison and put a smock on Josh and took his underwear off and put a stocking on his head and gave Chuck a baton and some glasses. Chuck would beat Josh up. And Josh would probably have his spirit broken and have a nervous breakdown. It's in everybody. Evil is in everybody crumbling at the first sign of adversity. Isn't everybody? We're all just pathetic, weaklings. Stanford Prison Experiment. And he ran off and said, I'm famous. All right, that's a great set up. So we'll take a break here and come back and talk a little bit more about the experiment and the realities of it right after this. All right? So you've got John Wayne in there. I don't think we mentioned that he took on the persona of the prison boss in Coolhand Luke. He did a fake Southern accent and everything and dove right into this role. If you talk to Dave Ashley today, he will say he's very much on record as saying I'm not some jerk and I didn't get off on being sadistic. He said, I wanted to do what they paid me $15 a day to do, which was to be a prison guard and to treat these guys poorly. Right. He said, I did some drama in high school, and I literally acted this part as well as I could that I felt was expected and wanted from me. Right. And I put on this fake Southern accent. And if you, like, ask people, friends and family today, they would laugh at this because I'm really not this guy at all. Right. Because he really comes off as a bit of a villain in this movie, for sure. Well, he perpetrated real cruelty on other people, and we'll get to that later. He said he feels bad about it, too, and he should. Yeah, because the other people actually did suffer under this guy's leadership as the ringleader of the main guard. Like, they wore pink on Wednesday. It was terrible everywhere. Right. So he really should feel bad, and apparently he does. I saw that all over the place, too, that he feels bad for it. But the point is that he has said this didn't happen organically. I felt encouraged to play this role. Right. That's a big deal, because the findings of the Stanford Prison Experiment say if you take some people and say you're a guard, give them a call and you will turn evil. They will turn evil within a day. A day, they said, about this guy and this guy's like, no, I was just like you said, doing my job. But they're paying me $15 a day for let's put that one to the side. Put a pin in that. Let's go visit with Douglas Corpy, who is the prisoner, who, in 36 short hours of the simulated prison experiment, lost his marbles and had a nervous breakdown and had to go home. Right. One of the other two pillars of the findings that people are either evil or easily crumble in the face of adversity from the Stanford Prison Experiment. And again, this is how this thing's been taught for, like, 50 years. Okay? Yeah. So Corpy comes out and says, I was faking that, and I put on a big act so I could get out of there because it sucked and I didn't want to be there anymore. Right. One of his quotes was, I don't have it here. But he basically said, any trained clinician would have been able to see right through this. When I hear the tapes years later, it's like, I'm not an actor. Apparently, the John Wayne guy at least had been in high school plays and college, too, I think. Yeah. And he was like, I was not an actor. And it was so clear to me, looking back at these tapes, that I was faking it. Faking a nervous breakdown? Yeah. Faking a nervous breakdown to get out of there. Right. So the reason why he said later that he did fake this nervous breakdown is because he took the job. Because he thought he'd just be laying around, like you said, smoking cigarettes, being a prisoner, and he would get to study for the GRE. He was about to enter grad school. I didn't see that. Well, they said, no, you can't have your books. No, they didn't give him anything. And this guy was like, Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. This is day one. He's like. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I need those books. I'm taking the GRE. Basically leaving here after two weeks and going to take the test. Like, I've got to spend this two weeks studying? They're like, you can't have your books. So he quickly saw that the only way out was to fake this nervous breakdown. And Billy crude up, went in there and said, why is everyone saying, whoa, whoa, whoa? Only I can say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, so we've kind of pooped the two major findings from the study already. So that's a huge deal. Right? Because, again, the idea is that if you put people, any random people, remember these are just average, like, middle class white kids, which is another problem. Right. If you put in 1971, that means everybody, right? That's the whole world. Right? If you put anybody in the world in the situation, they're going to either turn evil or lose their marbles. So those are the two findings. That's what everybody took it as at first. It later came out. No, this guy was acting. This guy was faking. So what else do we have then? Well, we have this idea that Zimbardo insinuated himself as part of the experiment, and that actually created the findings from the Stanford Prison Experiment. So should we put a pin in that, or you want to talk about that now? No, I want to go where you want to go. All right, let's put a pin in that then, and talk about a little bit more about what went on that week. They had everything from visitation. Like, you could write a letter to your family or girlfriend or whoever you want to come visit you to ask for visitation rights. And the family came in, and they did. They came in and visited for an hour, and there were in some cases, parents were like, I don't know about this. This seems like a really weird thing. And Zombardo will be like, oh, no, it's totally fine. I'm a psychologist. Yeah. Like, they want to be here. Like, ask them. And the kids, you know, they did say that they wanted to stay. Okay. Which is important. Okay, so what else is important? Like, no one in the visiting hour, I don't think. We're like, Get me out of here. Okay? They're all like, no, this is all part of the act. Okay. Essentially, all right. They had parole hearings inside the course of a week. Somehow they said that they could be released if they would, forfeit the money. And this is after I don't know how many of the six days, but they could not get paid and be paroled if they went in front of the parole board. They went in front of the parole board. Some of them did. And most of the prisoners said that they would give up their money. In fact. And the parole members, like you said, they were the graduate assistants. They even had one former prisoner, this guy. That was a 15 year coincidence. Yeah. Inmate 15 or 17 year inmate on the board that, I guess Zimbardo I want to call him Zamboni. So he actually was a friend of Jaffe's, the guy who originally actually as an undergrad, so he brought him in on it. Right. So he was on the parole board, and he was kind of one of the ones, at least in the film version, that was kind of saying, like, no, this is, like, how it is. You should keep it going. Right. But I don't know how much of that was dramatized. I don't either. One of the problems with this is so much of the documentation has been not released over the years, and when it does get released, it contradicts the official line, and it's very tough to separate truth from fiction, especially when you introduce a Hollywood movie into the whole thing just to drive those nails in the coffin, too. In reality in fact, there's been a lot of in the year since, a lot of complaints that a lot of these kids were screaming, I want to go home. I want to go home. And for his part. Zimbardo said, in the contract, it says, I want to exit the experiment. There's the official line to say, and they could have gone home. And he was like, but you hear, no one ever said, I want to exit the experiment. They would say, I want my mommy, or I'm going crazy, or My God, please stop this, please stop this. But they never said those exact words. The safe phrase. Yeah, the safe phrase. But it turns out that's bunk too, right? Yeah, it turns out that if you look at the contract that they had that he's referencing that say the rules and everything in the agreement, there's no safe word to be mentioned. Certainly it doesn't say, if you say, I want to quit the experiment, you get released from the experiment. So he's just flat out lying about that then? That's from what I understand, yes. And what article was this that you sent? There's a really good takedown in medium called The Lifespan of a Lie. Yeah, it's a good one. And it's based on that title is based on, I think, a documentary by a documentary or book by a French filmmaker who titled his version The Birth of a Lie. And it's basically about how the Stanford Prison Experiment, it was bunk from the get go, which will kind of pick that apart in a little bit, and that just fascinatingly. Has been perpetuated over again, basically 50 years. It just entered the cultural zeitgeist and just stayed like an infection. Right. Some other things that happened to make it realistic. They brought in a lawyer when parents asked for one and played along like it was real. They brought in a chaplain who came in to speak to prisoners, and he played along with it, too. They basically did everything that you would think would happen in a real prison on a slightly scaled down level. Right. But the upshot of all of this is Zimbardo saying, like, do you see what's going on here, everybody? I just put some guys in, like nine guys in at a time, or twelve guys as guards, twelve guys as prisoners. And their parents came for visiting hours. A lawyer came. That's how real the simulated prison became in people's minds. Just imagine what a real prison is like. Right. And he was saying they could have left it anytime if they just said the safe word. And no one ever said the safe word. There is some evidence that these people were basically kept there against their will, especially after Douglas Corpy basically faked his emotional breakdown and then was thrown into a broom closet in retaliation for it. He should have very clearly should have been left or allowed to leave. And to even be led to think that you couldn't leave, which is apparently the idea that spread throughout the prisoners, that would be like keeping someone against their will. Yeah. And he did leave, but was supposed to agreed to come back, supposedly to play a different role as a prisoner who maybe escaped and came back, I think, but didn't come back. Right. And I think five people were released early, before the whole experiment was called up. All prisoners, no guards left the experiment, which is telling. Yeah. Well, they were working in shifts, though, which is important. Okay. That is a big one, too. But if you consider that no one asked to be a guard, they all have to be prisoners. But then none of the guards left the experiment. To me, that's interesting on its face. Right. There's something to that. But the whole thing just kind of falling apart. After Zimbardo's girlfriend at the time came the idea that up to this point, these people had engaged in this fantasy and thought that they couldn't leave when they really could. That's controversial in and of itself, because, again, there's evidence that they were led to believe they couldn't leave. And that's different. That changes things entirely. Yeah. So you want to take another break and then pick this part some more? Yeah, let's do it. Kind of fun. All right, the final takedown. I'm waiting for Philip Zimbardo to release a book about our Jackhammer episode. That's fine. I would read it. All right, so where are we here? Basically, we're at the point where he has ended the experiment, and now we're dealing with the fallout since 1971 and how this should be viewed. One of the big things that came out of that French book, The Birth of July is the filmmaker unearthed a recording that was I don't know where he found it, but he found it and released the transcript of it. That clearly has, if not Zimbabwe, at least Jaffe. Definitely jaffe coaching the guards. Yeah. To be more brutal. Right. Be a tough guard. Just think of, like, how the pigs do it and do it like that, I think, is what the quote was. Right? Yeah. When the whole idea of this thing is to try and prove that without any influence. Yes. This is what happens. Right. So there's a couple of things that happen methodologically. There's a lot of things that happen the moment they started coaching those guards. Number one, they took any organicness out of their behavior. They were then doing what they thought they were expected to do. Like John Wayne. Yeah, for sure. Who just went over the top of what it was. And then number two, they made them co experimenters. Like, the whole thing was supposed to be guards and prisoners, and we're going to watch as test subjects or participants. And when you coach the guards, they're co experimenters. Now now the experiment is entirely on the prisoners, which you can say, okay, well, then those findings still worked. Well, that gets thrown out when you base the whole thing on a guy who is faking. Right. But you make the guards coexpironmenters and you just. Completely take out any objectivity from this experiment. That's problem one with the methodology. Well, and the fact we already mentioned that one of the researchers was the warden and calling Zambrano that's fine. Go ahead, Zimbardo. Zamboni himself was the superintendent. Like, the minute he decided to do that, I looked up I think he was, like, in his late 30s when he did this. Was he that bad at doing his job? How did he not know? Like, wait a minute, this will taint the experiment. Do you want to talk about why the people think that he was so yes. Okay. So he wasn't, I think, still is a social activist for sure, and he had decided, and I can't really disagree with him, that prisons were brutal places where brutality lived and that they were inherently brutal. And so if you take somebody and put them into this place, you're doing a real disservice to humanity by throwing somebody in a brutal place that you know is brutal. So his aim was to get reform to happen? Yes. From the outset. Well, I mean, I can't fault that, but you can't call it a scientific experiment either. No, and it actually supposedly backfired as well, because one interpretation of his findings is that it's all or nothing with prisons. Prisons are inherently brutal, or you can't have them. So either you have prisons and you have brutal prisons, or you have no prisons. And so faced with that choice and with rising crime rates in the lot of people, doubled down on getting tough and made prisons even worse and built more prisons and said, yes, we're not even going to try to reform you anymore. We're just going to send you to these brutal places that are inherently brutal, and there's nothing we can do about it. So it would have backfired in that sense, but in the idea that he was doing something with the best interests of his fellow people at heart. Again, like you said, it's tough to fault him for that. He just really gave social psychology a black eye. Yeah. So one of the other things he did wrong, and this one I just can't figure out either is he didn't have a control group. And one of his this guy wasn't in the experiment, but one of his colleagues came by one day and was like, what's your control? What's your independent variable? Yeah. And he was like, what? Yeah. He's like, I don't have one. So if you run an experiment of any sort, grabster uses a great analogy where if you're trying to figure out what the effects of radiation are on tomatoes, you pick a bunch of tomatoes, you weigh them, you check them for color, you make sure that they're identical to another set of tomatoes. So you have two sets of basically identical tomatoes, one you irradiate, one you do not. And after a certain amount of time, you go back and see what the differences are and then you can say probably that when you radiate tomatoes, these are the effects, and the effects are the differences between the two. Same thing with the prison experiment. What would you have here? Two different cell blocks and one that literally isn't coached and completely left alone. That's what I would have done, for sure. And then one where you're saying, hey, be brutal and we'll see if everyone falls into these roles. Exactly. That would have been great. And actually, some researchers in 2001 oh, yeah, they did. They did exactly that. They basically ran the experiment with just that control group you suggested it was called the BBC Prison Study. Yeah. Haslam and Riker. Yeah. And basically they did the same thing. They did not do any coaching, they didn't do any intervention. They did the thing exactly like you're supposed to, or like Zimbardo should have from the outset. And they found that, again, they made the control group to the original Stanford Prison Experiment. They found that the exact opposite happened. The prisoners stayed, banded together, the guards were totally in disarray and disorganized. The brutality never emerged and there wasn't any violence, from what I understand. And this is where it gets really scummy, if you ask me. Zimbardo found out about this and supposedly Hazelman Riker said they discovered he was privately writing editors to keep them from getting published and claiming that they were fraudulent. Yeah. In the journal that they released their findings and he wrote an appendage to their article and said, just don't even listen to these guys. I'm Phillip Zimbardo man. So, yeah, I thought that was pretty scummy, too, if he did that. So you've got methodologically. There's even more problems, too. In the original newspaper advertisement. Chuck he said prison experiment. Prison Experiment. Everybody signed up. Yeah. That was a problem in and of itself. They shouldn't have known what they were doing. No, exactly. Until they showed up. Right. So you're going to get a big, wide swath of people and then once they find out what the experiment is, maybe they'll say, no, thanks, or whatever, but this was like attracting a 2007 follow up study found narcissistic, hostile, overly aggressive, authoritarian types. Like flies to honey. Yeah. Or the opposite. Well, that seems to be the case in this case. Yeah. Which was in fact, one of them was a liberal activist who kind of purposely went in there because he thought maybe these findings could be used one day for prison reform. Well, I think also, most of the what I got from Jaffe coaching the people to say, like, think about what the pigs would do and then do that because we really got to show them how brutal prisons are. I think everybody who showed up basically was against prisons, but whether you're against prisons or forum, you were automatically tainted before you even showed up for the interview because they wrote Prison Experiment in the ad. So from the outset, there was bias. There was no control group. It attracted a bias cross section of people. Zimbardo participated. He was a participant. And that actually, Chuck, led to the second set of findings that Zimbardo had influenced this and become a participant himself. And here's the current interpretation of all of it. Okay. This seems to be the current du jour interpretation of the Stanford Prison Experiment. Not that people are inherently cruel right. And inherently will just crumble in the face of authority, although that might still stand, but that people are capable of cruelty if they're recruited by an authority figure. The second set, and there's actually been three sets of interpretations the second set was that Zimbardo inserted himself and that it actually demonstrated what's called situationist theory. Yeah. And that's basically the external circumstances are the drivers of human behavior. Right. So the point was not that people are inherently cruel on an individual level, but the situation that they're put in. They will quickly find those roles if there's a power structure above them that has normalized this and is expecting them to fulfill those roles. And this really tied in with this is people were still really trying to figure out what the heck had just happened with the Nazis. It was only like 25, 26 years before. So this idea that this banality of evil, this made perfect sense in that respect. Right. There is a bureaucracy that had normalized evil, and you were just following orders. Right. That was the second interpretation of the Stanford Prison Experiment. Yes. And not just the Nazis, but the Vietnam War, which was this was 1971, right. And the Mile a massacre. And I was just following orders. This has his fingers in a lot of of relevant politics of the day. Right. So apparently it also tied in really well to Attica. And Zimbardo must have just couldn't believe his good fortune that there was the bloodiest prison riot in American history. Happened, like, a couple of weeks after he made the news in the New York Times Magazine with this journal or this article that he wrote. Right? Yeah. But that actually played into it, too, because apparently following orders, a lot of guards just fired blindly into the tear gas smoke of this prison riot and killed tons of unarmed prisoners and hostages. So Zimbabwe is like, okay, that's fine, however we're going to interpret this, I'm cool with that. The third one, I'm not quite sure that he would be cool with the current one, which is bad science, I think. So what I saw is that a lot of social psychologists said, we've known this is bad science all along, but the findings were really interesting and worthwhile, so we didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. The third one is that Zimbardo inserted himself. And what this study really showed was that people will engage in acts of cruelty if there is a figure of authority recruiting them to what they think is a righteous cause. And in this case, it was Zimbardo making the guards coexperimenters by coaching them to be cruel. Right. And in the name of prison reform, ultimately, when they showed the world what happens when you put normal people in a prison situation. Yes. Which is what the John Wayne guy very much has said all his life since then, is that this is what I thought they wanted, was for me to be a bad guard so we could prove ultimately that prisons need reform. And that is why he's still complicit because he's still engaged in these acts of genuine cruelty against the prisoners in the study. And that's why he should still feel bad and still does feel bad, but he did it because he was recruited in the name of this righteous caused by somebody who was in authority. So is this being taught this way in classes now? I think that they especially once it came out that Zimbardo and at the very least, his warden, Coexperimenter, was coaching them to do this and that the organic cruelty is just totally out the window. I think they don't know what to do with it right now. They're trying to figure out how to get these findings across or what to make of them. Because one of these quotes from the article you sent the guy said, I don't think it's scientific fraud in the typical sense. It was never considered to be scientific. It's typically represented in classrooms as a demonstration, not an experiment, and as a notorious case of ethical malfeasance. Right. So that's almost a fourth takeaway. Is that it's an example of how to not do a study correctly. Right. Which is interesting. Oh, yeah. I mean, methodologically inserting yourself, like lying about the findings later on or misinterpreting the results or using spin. Yeah, there's a lot here. But it was approved by the Stanford Human Rights subjects review committee at the time. Those were Zimbardo's experiments. We presented this to he still says that it was ethical. Well, it was at the time, under the guidelines, it was ethical. But then after they changed the guidelines you couldn't do this today. No. Or at least not like he did it. You remember the very brief psychology is nut series. I watched that. I did one on the Stanford Prison Experiment. Yeah, I watched that today. What did you think? It was good. Thanks, man. Cute little background. Yeah, I thought so, too. And let's see. You got anything else? No. I mean, boy, I thought we were pretty scathing, but we were this is, like vaping level scathing. This is way worse than vaping. I'm sure. The Vapors are like, god, they were really hard on that guy. Yeah, the movie the documentary is probably a little more accurate, but the movie wasn't bad. Yeah. I mean, it's not great. Yes. But it was okay. It felt like a movie of the week. Got you. It's an airplane movie. Yeah. Watch it on your next flight. That's my recommendation. Thanks, buddy. Well, if you want to know more about the Stanford Prison Experiment, type those words in the search bar@housetofworks.com and it'll bring up this Grabster article. Since I say Grabster, it's time for listening to mail. I'm going to call this beautiful landscaping. Hey, guys. I spent the last two years fixing up the yard in our house in Point Pleasant, Pennsylvania. Oh, that sounds like a pleasant place. Yes, it is. My husband actually introduced me your show a few years back. Thank God he did, because I've literally listened to you for hours and hours while working in the yard. Right. It was a huge undertaking. I have a more flexible work schedule than he does, so I volunteered to absorb most of the responsibility. Although he did a lot of heavy lifting, too. I enjoyed the show so much, I stopped allowing myself to listen to it any other time. You were only allowed during yard work. It made me much more ready to get outside and get into it. You guys were with me while I carried literally tons of redstone uphill and buckets, hauling rocks for a firing landing, planted pecky, Sandra ferns and hostas and the Rockiest soil I've ever had to work with and just clearing away overgrowth it sounds like Tanya Harding training for the Olympics. And that one montage, which it turned out included a fair amount of poison ivy. During it, I learned about tiny, adorable little creature called the tardigrade, the business of head transplants, the hook worm, her favorite episode, and some haunting information I cannot inherit, such as you provided in the bullfighting and drowning episodes. You're always very entertaining, full of information. Even when I think it's boring, you make it fun. There were times you had me lolling in my backyard alone and covered in dirt and sweat like a crazy person. Attached to some pictures of the progress, all from your climate controlled studio. That is from Sharon Prashinski. Sharon, you did a great job. That is one beautiful yard you got going. Yeah, for sure. It is lovely. It is nice work. We're glad we could be there with you to help you get up that hill. Yeah. And down the hill. And then back up the hill. And back down the hill. That's right. And then back up again. If you want to get in touch with us to let us know how we've helped you out, we love hearing that kind of stuff. If you're Phillips Lombardo, we expect to hear from your lawyer. And in the meantime, you can hang out with us at our home on the web, stuffyou.com, where you can find all of our social links. And you can also send us an email to stuff podcast@howstepworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstepworks.com summer school's out? The sun is shining the daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good it's criminal. Morbid. 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http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podcasts.howstuffworks.com/hsw/podcasts/sysk/2018-02-27-sysk-knife-throwing-final.mp3 | Knife Throwing: Super Cool | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/knife-throwing-super-cool | Sure knives can cut through a steak or slash through jungle vines, but probably the coolest thing you can do with a knife is throw it. At a person mounted to a wooden wheel. Spinning around. While you’re blindfolded. Learn all about the impalement arts in | Sure knives can cut through a steak or slash through jungle vines, but probably the coolest thing you can do with a knife is throw it. At a person mounted to a wooden wheel. Spinning around. While you’re blindfolded. Learn all about the impalement arts in | Tue, 27 Feb 2018 15:53:01 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2018, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=27, tm_hour=15, tm_min=53, tm_sec=1, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=58, tm_isdst=0) | 40561344 | audio/mpeg | "Hello. Colorado. The state's so nice. We're playing there twice. That's right. Two days in a row. Chuck, we added a second show to our Gothic Theatre tour. That's right. We're going to be there June 7 and June 28. Now, the 28th is sold out. It but one of those weird cases where you go see the first show. You were actually late buying tickets. Right. We're also going to be in Boston april 4. DC. April 5. We're going to be in St. Louis on May 22 and Cleveland on May 23. And then, of course, we're going to wrap this summer up on June 27 28th at the Gothic Theater in Colorado. So go to sysklive.com. For all of your information and ticket needs, welcome to Stuff You Should Know from Housetofworks.com. Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W, Chuck Bryant and there's Jerry. All right, just bear some explanation. So I was doing my Stevie for Malcolm in the middle impression. Which one was Stevie? He was the kid in the wheelchair who breathed like that, who talked like that because I don't know. He had serious asthma. Yes. Do you remember him? Was he just like a classmate? Yeah, he was like his best friend, I believe. Yeah, I don't remember. I like that show, though. Yeah, well, it's not what I was doing. Really? No. We're slightly out of breath because we just had a fire alarm. Yeah. We had to walk down four flights of stairs. And not like, just the one, the kind of flight where it's like down landing, down again. Two flights. Yeah. So we walked down eight flights of stairs and then walked back eight more. I know, right when we got down, stopped and immediately turned around to go back in. It was ridiculous. It was the kind of thing that makes you say, maybe I won't leave next time there's a fire alarm. I was prepared to hide in the studio and keep working. Yeah, we thought about it. But there's a fire marshal who works here, so you can't run a foul of him. Man, he got on that orange vest quick, like, changes everything. So have you ever heard of those guys that sneak into places with those vests? Yes, I have. Is there a name for I'm sure more than one person has done this, but there's these two guys in particular who kind of got I don't know about famous, but made a name for themselves for putting on the orange vest and saying, basically, like, if you wear one of these, you can get in anywhere you want them. If you have orange festival and you look like you're supposed to be there well, yeah, you got to have that steely sense of nerve. And a walkie talkie is probably a good thing to have, too. Yeah, but they can go anywhere because the orange vested, that means that something's wrong. And the orange vest guy has to take care of it. Yeah. Like, they showed pictures in front of a I can't remember what show it was, but a big, big concert where they were in that buffer area between the people and the stage right with their orange vest. And Fred Durst is like, oh, there's an orange guy. Something must be going on. What year was that? This would have been 2002, maybe. The Freddy years. Great years. The Wonder years. You're right. Well, man, I'm hot now, too. I feel good. That got the endorphins going. This is going to be a cool episode, buddy. Well, the irony is I'm so grossly out of shape, I started getting on the peloton last week. So I've been and this is not a plug for pellet. I guess it is, but a little bit. It's not an ad, but I've been getting on that thing, so my legs are rubber band hams nice right now. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. Hey, y'all, prepare yourself for the rubber band ham. That's all right. Hey, will you indulge me for one moment? Oh, man, I've been waiting for you to ask me that for a long time. All right. So I've got the old side. Get going with Movie Crush, my podcast, where every Friday I sit down with someone awesome and talk about their favorite movie and kill it. Thank you. But I have now added a second weekly episode that publishes on Monday called Mini Crushes. And that's where I just sit in here with producer Noel. He's sort of the omniscient voice of God, and he sort of chimes in. And I source a lot of questions from Facebook to the Movie Crush facebook page, listener mails. I do recommendations. It's just a really interactive fan base experience. Yeah. So I want to plug the Mini Crushes and let everyone know that yesterday I dropped a very special Mini Crush, which was the Chuck and it's Emily's podcast debut. Oh, congratulations, man. That's right. It's called the Chuck and Emily drink wine and talk about the Oscar nominations. Oh, yes. Nice. Yeah. So we recorded this thing at home. We put the kid to bed and broke out some nice wine and did our pre Oscar round up. So that dropped yesterday. And then next Monday, the day after the Oscars, we're going to have our post Oscar round up, where we talked about who won and what the speeches were like and who wore it best. That's awesome. Emily's going to be a star, Chuck. Yeah, she was actually pretty great. And if you want a little peek behind the marital curtain, this is your chance. So, yeah, if you could check out Movie Crush on Apple podcasts or where do you get your podcast? Nice, man. Do you feel indulged? I do. Very much. Good. All right, let's talk about knife throwing. So I'm a little psyched about this because knife throwing taps into my ninja training that I did under Tommy Roper as I'm sure. I've mentioned before, reading about this, researching it, I never threw knives. We never made it that far into my maybe now I'll be hang gliding, throwing knives at the same time, right? Going to get into both at once. But I did a little throwing star stuff. Throwing star is like the dummies knife throwing. Because that thing always sticks, right? Yeah. I mean, depending on how many spikes you got coming off of it and how many beers you've had. Sure. Whether the tree is actually like a metal pole or not, you're probably going to stick a throwing star. Throwing a knife is an entirely different endeavor, and it's something that anybody can do. That nicholas Gerbis or Gerbis? Never met him, yet he points out this is actually kind of like a low hanging hobby. You can get a set of knives for $1015 a piece. You probably want about five as well. We'll explain why. Maybe six. You just practice. Get yourself a good block of wood and practice. And anybody can do this. It's not like you're born to throw knives. You practice. And if you like it, you keep going and you just get better and better at it, and you can impress your friends and neighbors. Yes. And here's the point in the show where we issue our COA. Kids, if you're out there, do not go get a steak knife from your drawer and start throwing it at your dog. That is not a throwing knife. And never throw anything at your dog. Kids, I will come find you. Yeah. Never throw anything at anybody that's sharp. But throwing knives are built to throw. There are weighted and balanced to throw. They're not like regular old knives. And we'll get into all that. But just if you really want to try throwing knives, go ask mom and dad. Sure. Or Tommy Roper. Get ready for a no, tommy Roper does that. And then play them this podcast where it is an actual circus art. And please, for the love of God, tell me this is the last one. I don't think so. Of the circus arts. No, it's not. What else is, sir? There's a bunch. We've done the Globe of Death. Oh, yeah. Flame swallowing, lion taming, sword swallowing, sword swallowing. We did circus families. Just straight up circus families. Human cannonball has got to be it. I don't think so, man. I think it's going to keep going in clowns. We did clowns. Clowns, for sure. Yeah. They haven't done one on PT. Barnum, though. No. You mean Hugh Jackman. What is it? Chucks TRA Thomas? I don't know. Something like that. I make one lucky casting call, predict one sexual predator and one bad Lifetime movie. Or what was sharknado SYFY? Scifi movie? Three little things. That's all. That doesn't make me not strummest. Haven't won the lottery yet. Think of all the things I said that didn't come true. Right? Way more. Yeah. I guess that's true. No one ever writes in. Well, that didn't happen. You really got that. Actually, they do write in and tell us we got stuff wrong a lot. That's true. So we're going to take this seriously because we want your ten year olds out there who want to get your parents to let you do this, to see that you're taking this seriously by listening to this podcast first. Okay. That's right. So what we're talking about specifically is known as, somewhat ironically, as an impalement act, which is really weird thing to call it. Yeah, it really is. I think it's a little tongue in cheek. You think? Because the point is to not right. The point is to not impale somebody with this kind of thing. Right? That's right. And impalement acts are an umbrella term that cover not just knife throwing, but bull, whip cracking, sharpshooting archery, William Tell kind of thing. Yeah. All of those fall under the umbrella term of impalement. Axe Jerry's and dressing over there to our left. She got very hot in the fire drill. All right, so this goes back if we can get back on the way back machine oh, yeah. All the way back to the late 19th century. We got to go back even further than that. Are you going to go, like, the ancient times? No, we'll just go the 19th century. Because I'm sure Chinese people in ancient times through stuff that stuck in walls. Well, I looked up the oldest knife. Chinese started everything they did. Apparently, they found the oldest knife 500,000 years ago. Oh, the oldest knife. Knife. So we've been using knives for longer than there have been modern humans. Yeah, for sure. And then at some point, probably about 499,000 years ago, we started throwing knives. That's right. Stabbing is okay, but throwing a knife is when you really can come to appreciate what a knife does. Okay. And there was nothing better than 80s movie than when James Bond threw a knife and it got a guy or American ninja. That's what I was trained on. Yeah. All right, so wild west shows buffalo Bill and his wild west shows traveled throughout the United States, throughout Europe. Knife throwing became a big spectacle at things like this, as well as obviously sharpshooting and probably archery. They probably did all the impalement arts. They definitely did. And they really brought it to the world, to the point where you can just basically say, that's where it started with Buffalo Bills Wild West show. Yes. And this is one of those things where through a modern lens, it is incredibly misogynistic to think about the fact that you say, hey, let me take a scantily clad woman. A target girl. Yeah, that's what they call them, a target girl. And throw knives at her. Yeah. Just stand there. Stand still. Yeah. Throw knives near her. That's your job. It's always a lady. She's always got on, like, a bikini or something. She's just like almost like Wild West theme punk, renaissance fair thing. Right. Just to cover all of the geek boys dreams and desires. Right. But when you look at it through the modern lens, it's like, man, that is totally misogynistic. That is the act. It's got a burleski thing going on. Yeah, sure. I mean, you can see what they're trying to do is titillate the young boys in the audience. They're trying to sell tickets. Sure. And it probably wouldn't have sold as many tickets if they just had to build the farm hand with a balloon in his mouth getting popped. I mean, it's still pretty cool. You're still seeing the same thing, but yeah, it's just basically tradition and custom to have a scanning clad woman as your target girl. Again, that's what they call them, is the target girl. And that is one of the two people involved in this impalement act. That's right. We mentioned the balloon in the mouth. That was one of the big tricks. Yeah. There was a German husband and wife named the Gibsons who introduced the very famous Wheel of Death in 1938 at the ringwing Brothers show in Madison Square Garden. Have you seen this? Oh, yeah. Okay. So I'd seen stuff, like with knife throwing before and I always thought flea circus was another one. Do you remember our flea circus episode where it turns out that flea circuses actually involve real fleas? Yeah. That was the best of the circus arts. And everybody thought it was like, no, it's magnets. Or just your imagination power of suggestion. And that's just not the case. The same thing applies to knife throwing impalement acts like I always thought. Did you really? Yeah. I think there was like a Happy Days or something like that, where somebody gets volunteered. There's definitely an eye Love Lucy with a knife act where she's the target girl. But there is some show where maybe Laverne and Shirley not I think about it. Anyway, the guy's throwing them and the knives are coming out of the backboard around them. So it's all in illusion. Right. That is not true. In knife act, if you're the target girl, a dude is throwing twelve inch long, extremely sharp pointy knives right at your head and is trying to get as close as possible to you without hitting you. Correct. And again, that's just the profile where they're throwing knives around you and making like a chalk outline of your body. That's the profile. But there's other ones, like holding a cigarette in your mouth and knocking the ash off with a knife. Or you're holding a flower in your mouth and they slowly, like, cut the stem off piece by piece. There's some pretty interesting things that people have done with knife acts. Yeah. Sometimes. And this is the riskiest of all moves. Riskier even more so than the Wheel of Death, is when they do the cover the target over with paper. Yeah. The veiled. Wheel of Death. So you can't even see that spinning. Who is behind there? You just have to have it timed completely, perfectly. Right. But if you take a step back and think about this, there is nothing about that act that should allow you to say, oh, if I throw like this, I will miss the person, because they're spinning. So you have to know where their body is at every second. But you've taken away how you know that, which is your vision, because they're behind a big sheet of paper that you're throwing knives through. And there's this guy who will talk about a little further. His name is the Great Thraudini. Love this guy. He watched a bunch of stuff. He has done something. It's probably the most dangerous, most impressive knife throwing act anyone's ever done. He did the Veiled Wheel of Death with two Target girls on it. So he has two girls strapped to a board, spinning behind a big piece of paper that he can't see them through, and he's throwing knives at them. Fast. Yes, very fast. The guy threw him on an average of a knife every 9 seconds. Yeah. And he didn't hit either one of them. Amazing. It is amazing. It's so amazing. I think we just take a break and regroup. We're back. We just watched 1 hour of Great Jordani videos, right? He apparently caught on, like, in his 50s. He was like, hey, I'm pretty good at this. Back in 1996, I guess, somebody was like, have you tried throwing knives? And he said, no, I haven't. And they were like, well, try throwing knives. And he said, well, fine. Well, a couple of weeks later, he tried throwing knives, and he said, I really like this. He said, it felt natural and right. So he started throwing knives and entered competitions and started winning. I think he became world champion within, like, two years. He beat the other four people, and then he said, you know what? This is fun, and all like these competitions, but I think I want to try an act like an old throwback and Pailman act. So we started one. We can buy a tuxedo. Basically bought his wife, Barbara, target girl. Get up. Oh, is that his Target girl? One of them, yeah. I think she may have been the original one. Taught her to smoke cigarettes so he could knock the ash off of the end of them. And there you go. Impalement act achieved. But not only that, Chuck, the guy is legitimately the best knife thrower on the planet. Well, he's one of them. He holds a record for fastest. But, boy, you go down a YouTube rabbit hole like people like Ralph Thorn better than Great Thordini. Well, Great Thordini does the impalement act, as in the circus art. Ralph Thorn is like if you're running through the woods chasing somebody. I haven't seen this guy. Well, that's the Thorn style. We'll get into those styles later. Okay, got you. But yeah, he will, like, launch himself off of a tree stump in the air and throw one behind his back. See, now that's basically the training I was indoctrinated. Yeah. Like martial arts, real world, suburban neighborhood dangers. Right. There's a raccoon. Oh, no, you're not throwing at records. All right. A record comes at me. Well, sure. Okay, here's what you need. If you're going to throw a knife, you need a throwing knife. A throwing knife, like I said, is not a steak knife. It is very much made to be thrown. It is balanced so that you throw it. And we'll talk about the different ways that they're balanced, but one thing they are not is sharp on the sides. Yeah. The edges. Yeah. They're very pointy. Right. But they're dull on the edges because you're going to a lot of times to be throwing it by that blade. So get a knife for throwing. And the old saying, sharp of point is the point sharp of edge does you no good. Sure. That old thing. Yeah, that's a great thing. That should go on a T shirt. It should, yeah. You want a sharp point, but there's nothing about a sharp edge that's going to help you in any way, shape or form, because the whole point, again, it's the point is the point that's going to stick into whatever that target is, which is usually a block of wood, right? Yes. So depending on how you're going to throw it, you want to throw the heavy end first. And there's a reason for this. The reason is that if you want to get technical about it, velocity equals distance divided by time. Right. And when you're throwing a knife, especially the heavy end first, the heavy end has traveled a further distance in the same amount of time than the lighter end. This, friends, create something very important in knife throwing, although not fundamental, which is spin. Okay. That's right. And so if you throw the knife, you're going to throw it either blade end or handle end. And the end regards what you're holding when you throw it. And if you're holding, say, a knife handle and you're throwing it from the handle end, the front of the knife, the point is going to be weighted. It's going to be heavier. So that starts the spin. If you're throwing it blade first, the handle itself will be heavier. That's right. So that will start the spin. And there's a couple of different depending on which way you're throwing the spin is going to take place over the course of a very short distance. Actually, let me just back up a second here. Okay. There's some factors involved. Okay. They are distance to target, length of knife, weight and balance, and then knife type. Right. So the distance to target is going to tell you what type of throw you want. That's right. The kind of knife. They say for every good rule of thumb here, just throw it out. But they do mention a rule of thumb regardless. That says a blade that weighs about 1oz per inch and that's per inch of the whole knife. Yeah. Well, you can throw whatever you want, but ten to 16oz is a good starter knife and about that long, or maybe twelve to 14 inches, and about that many ounces is where you want to start off as a beginner. Right. There are all kinds of shapes, too. Definitely. Some of them are like little spears. Some have multiple points, more like throwing stars. They really run the gamut. Right. So depending on how you're going to throw, whether it's a handle throw or a blade throw, the weight of the knife is going to be either in the handle or the blade. It's going to be the opposite of where you're holding the knife. And if you throw holding the blade, you're going to throw a half turn. It's a half turn throw, right? Yes. And the reason they call it that is because the knife only makes one half turn. The blade straightens out from your hand toward the target, and then that's the only turn it makes. Yeah, it's not like in the movies. A lot of times you'll see go and turn like nine times and stick the guy in the forehead. That's really not what you're doing with knife throwing. No, it's basically, if you're throwing it by the blade, it's going to make one half turn and that's it. So if you're blade throwing, you would stand closest to the target. Right. So if some guy's coming at you dressed as a raccoon and you know he's going to hurt you and you can throw a knife and he's real close, you would throw by the blade. That's right. And in fact, I don't even know if it's possible to throw a knife like they do in the movies. I don't think so. Just tumbles. Because every video I saw there, like, you try and prevent tumbling as much as you can. That's the whole game. Because physics says that a revolving object that suddenly breaks free will continue to move in a straight line tangential to the point at which it's released. Right. In other words, that release point is a little tricky. You got to dial that in. But we'll get to that, too, on the actual throwing. Right. So the next furthest away from the target is if you're holding the knife by the handle, right. And you're throwing it, it's going to make that's a full turn, full spin to where the blade goes from facing the target, facing away from the target, and back to facing the target in time to stick into that target and various bounce off because it hit the blade or the handle first. That's very humiliating. Right? So humiliating. And then the last one is the furthest one away, and it's about the most you would ever want a blade to turn, which is two times that's about 30ft or about 10 meters away from your target. You could possibly get it to spin twice, but usually you just wanted to spin once or half and that's it. Yeah. And did you say a half turn is about seven or 8ft? I don't think I did. I just said it was the closest. Yeah, about seven or 8ft. It depends. Full spin is about twelve to 15. And like you said, the great Throatini Double Bondini Double twist is up to 2030 ft. Yeah. Although one of these other throws that we're going to get into, this thorn throw, one of the benefits is you can throw from anywhere, right? Supposedly. So we're going to take one more break and then we're going to come back and teach you a little bit about throwing and then what to look for in a good knife. Okay. So you know about how close you want to stay in the target depending on whether you're holding the knife by the blade or the handle. The good thing is there are a couple of different grips, but they're very similar. So if you're like, I want to get into blade throwing first because that looks pretty cool. You're going to basically pinch the blade of the knife. And remember, these are not sharp edges, so you should be fine. Yeah. I saw if you are using a sharp edge knife, you want to hold the blunt end. Yeah. But you don't want to do that. You don't even want to do that. So it doesn't really matter which way you're holding it. But if it is sharp on one edge, hold the other edge and you're just basically pinching it between your thumb and your first three fingers. Just a little pinch? Yeah, just a teeny pinch. Maybe stick your pinky out for effect. Sure. All right. And that's the blade throw. Yes. And you've already got your target by the way, at this point. I know you mentioned a block of wood, but they recommend aim small. What is it? Start small. Aim small. Yeah. Which is you don't need a tree trunk sliced up and put on a wall. Like you just need like whatever a little twelve inch by twelve inch block of wood. Or maybe if you want to screw a bunch of wood together and then draw a target on there, that's fine too. Yeah. You should probably glue though because the screws your knife might bounce off of them if you're using metal screws. Okay, sure. As opposed to the traditional wooden dowel right up till joint. Right. So what did I say? That's the blade throw, right? Yeah, you did. Blade throw. There's a handle throw too. And this one is called a hatchet throw or hammer throw or the handle throw. You could call it too, and everybody will know what you're talking about. Yeah. And you stand a little further back for this one. Right. Because you've got your full turn going, and then you just grip it like a baseball bat and swing away. Right. Close your eyes and you hope for the best. You say ninja strike, right? Yeah. So the cool thing is what you were saying about starting small, aiming small, is that when you figure out that there's actually just a few mechanics going on here, you'll be able to tell what part of your throw is actually off. Whether it's distance, whether it's when you're releasing, whether it's how you're gripping it, the problems or the issues with your throw will show up. And you'll be able to read, based on how the knife is landing or sticking, what's wrong with your throw? Yeah. Like if you are throwing, I think, blade first and it sticks, but it's sticking at a really hard angle where the handle is pointing down. Then they say maybe just move back six inches with your stance. Yeah, you're right. And then try it again. Yeah. Because that means that the knife didn't get its full rotation. Right. You wanted to basically be sticking straight out, perpendicular to the target. That's a correct throw as you're learning to do this. Yeah. Did you say that it's generally your opposite leg of your throwing hand forward? Oh, yeah. So the stance yeah, generally. But then again, I also saw this Russian guy that threw with his same leg as the throwing hand forward. Right. He was like, It all works, basically. This guy was great. I knew you had the Italian thing going on, but Russian, that's good. I can do that. So let's get into the throw them. Okay. So the stance, I should say so with the stance you're standing with your throwing arm, the leg opposite your throwing arm is closest to the target. It's kind of like you're throwing a dart. You throw a dart? Yes. Okay. Like that? Well, actually, that's not quite true. When you throw a dart, the leg that is, the foot that is on the line is the same side as your throwing hand. Is it? Yeah. Okay. Well, this is the opposite of that. Maybe I've been throwing darts wrong all this time. The leg opposite you're throwing arm is the one you want closest to the target. Traditionally, right? Traditionally, your weight is on your back leg, though, as you're throwing. And what you're doing is you're gripping the knife however you want to. Blade or handle. Either way, you line it up right. With your eye against the target. Sure. Bring your arm back behind your head and then keeping your wrist straight, you don't want to flip your wrist or anything like that. You bring it in an arc in front of you, and you finish like you are shaking somebody's hand, going, hey, how are you? Right. But I got a knife. Right. The thing is, here's the thing. You're going to. Want to release at that handshake part when your hand is straight out in front of you and you're going to find nothing but heartache trying to throw a knife like that. Oh, if you release it right at the end oh, no, it'll go straight down. Right. It'll go down in front of you. Because when you release an object that's going in an arc, it wants to go straight in a tangential line from the top of the arc, right? That's right. So you want to release it at the top of the arc. That's right. So I was practicing just in the air, trying to make my brain release it at the top. And that is really difficult to do because you think initially that the knife is going to go shooting up into the air. It's not. It's going to go straight. That's right. Pretty neat stuff. That's right. And this is just I don't even know what the traditional throw is called, do you? I know. I didn't see a name for it. Well, there are some other throws which I might as well go ahead and mention I've teased. One is the aforementioned Thorn style from Ralph Thorn. Okay. That's named after a dude. It's named after a dude. Either way, it sounds cool. Yeah. This one, did you see this one at all online? I didn't see that one. I kind of had an idea of what they were talking about based on the article. Yeah. They say that it resembles spear throwing the action, I guess, in that you're not taking the knife, like, behind your ear. You're sort of just extending your whole arm and doing a big almost like you're throwing a baseball pitch. Sure. That's what I imagine. Yeah, that's what it sort of looked like, but like a sidearm, sort of like a bunch of people were doing it different. And then this guy's jumping all over behind his back. Like Thorn style seems to be to just do whatever you want. Okay, that's not true. Thorns probably just, like so angry right now. He's like, yeah, come on. I do whatever I want. Then there was the Russian style and this. Look, it's a very compact the elbow is in near the body. You hold the knife behind the ear. And this, I saw was a little bit more like that kind of thing. So that seems to me like depending on how close you're holding your elbow to your body, like you're going to chop the top of your ear off. Well, you want to avoid that. Sure. But it's more like you're pushing it out rather than throwing it like a tomahawk. Right. So that's what I thought Mum Yuan style was like, where you're basically like shoving the knife forward. Well, what I saw with that style and again, all these videos were different. So I don't know if these people are just I mean, it is YouTube. It's not like they're like I'm an accredited forensic. But the Mum Yuan style looked like they were having the knife like in their hand, like kind of in their palm and would throw it. Got you. But I don't know if that was because of the knife, because the guy on there was like this is a boshurrican spike which is thrown in the Mum Yuan style. Right. And that's what this article said too. People really get into this online though, right? That's what I did discover. So the three things, those three types, thorn style, mum Yuan and Russian style, those are all styles of knife throwing that involved no spin. That's the common thread that they all have. Yes. Which is pretty cool. It is cool. And there's a couple of reasons you want to do this. Most knife throwers say that's really tough on the joints after a while. Oh yeah, that's what they say. And the reason why is because it involves doing crazy snapping motions with your elbow and your wrist and stuff. Whereas with knife throwing it's just a smooth arc you're making. Almost all of the motion is in your shoulder and your elbow, your wrist stays straight and you just are generally releasing your grasp on the knife. Right. So Thor Dini can do this into his 80s all day long, right? Yeah. With the no spin styles it's just tougher. It's more of a snapping motion. You're going to get tennis elbow after a while. The reason, the advantage that these have is like if you're trying to throw a knife through a hole, you can't have a twelve inch knife spinning, making this 24 inch arc, basically, or circle. You just want to send it straight like a missile through that hole. When are you throwing a hole into some dude's legs and then you pounce on them? Put your hand over his mouth and nose until he falls asleep and then you can advance further toward the castle. Well, the Russian guy I saw was talking about the first thing you do is find the balance point. So he held out his finger and put the knife on it like a little seesaw, until he found the exact point and he's like, there's balance point. So once you find out where that is, that will teach you exactly how to hold it in any scenario. Basically I know where the balance point is. So whatever you're doing though, if this sounds like something you want to do, whether it's spin throwing or no spin throwing techniques, the key to knife throwing of any kind is practice, practice, practice. And this article actually gives a really good piece of advice that says get a little set of throwing knives the best you can afford because the more expensive they are typically with them, the better, the more well made they are. And like I said, of three or five or whatever, because you're going to have to practice repeatedly. And if you have one knife and you're standing 15ft away, you throw it. You have to go get it. You have to throw it again and go get it. That's not nearly as fun as trying to throw, like, five quickly in a row. So number one, you're going to be more entertained. But also, if you do, no matter how many knives you have, if you start to lose focus, if you start to get bored or frustrated, stop. Sure. Because if there's one thing about knife throwing, it's meant to be fun. And if you're practicing with your friends, they don't stand to the side of the target. They don't stand directly behind you. I would recommend they stand well behind you and well to one side of you. I've got one. Even better. Don't even let your friends anywhere near you. You have to be alone while you're practicing throwing knives, but you have to be in text or phone contact with your parents. We're watching you from a safe distance. So live streaming it to your parents, maybe. So you should go look at some of these Ralph Thorn videos, because the funniest part is almost angry, but just his trudge toward the Target afterward is very like I don't know. It's weird. He'll jump up in the air and throw a few, and then he's just like and then walks over and does it from the log like, I don't know, all the pizzazz leaves as soon as he's thrown. That's when you need the pizzazz during the throwing. The rest is just wasted energy. Yeah, but you don't see Throwdini. That's the difference between an impalement act, right, and a dude in his backyard on YouTube. Well, Throwdini has the smarts to hire an editor to edit that part out. Yeah, you know, good point. I don't know if we said the Great Throw denies name. His name is David Adamovich, and he's a neat guy. Great name. So if you want to know more about the Great Throw dini or what's Thorn's first name? Jesse Thorne. The other Thorn. Ralph Thorn. Or any kind of knife throwing, go check out some videos. Again, do not do this unless your parents say it's okay. And do it safely. Don't be stupid. And never, ever throw any living thing, ever, of any kind, ever. Or Josh and Chuck are going to be so mad at you. That's right. And in the meantime, let's listen to some listeners now. All right, I'm going to call this oh, welcome back to the fold. This just delighted me. I like this one, too. In April. It's going to be ten years. I know. Which is just nutty. No one ever thought we'd be doing this that long. Jerry has an age today. No, she hasn't. But she's taking up more clothes as the podcast has come up in celebration. She's getting ready for a gig as a Target girl. All right, guys, and Jerry, whoever else it's up, you should know, might actually be reading this. I don't know how Daniel works, is what she says. This is how it works. Yeah, we read it. I realized that the most I'm realistically going to achieve by stating this, making you feel old. But when I was eleven years old in 2011, stuff You Should Know is my favorite podcast and listen to every episode. Kept on listening for a couple of years until I was 13 when I stopped listening to it. Because that's when we lose them, is when they get too cool for school. That's right. So for those of you teenagers who have kept listening through your teen years, we think you're cool. You're doing it right. Your peers probably don't, but we do. I have no idea why I stopped, guys, up until today. I actually figured you guys must have stopped making it. And I never bothered to go back and check until today. Isn't it funny to think back? To think that someone can think back, like, oh, remember those guys? How long that lasts? Daily, weekly life. So funny. Yeah. I'm not sure how to properly put how I feel into words, though, because not a lot else from when I was that age still exists. I grew up with the Internet, but poking around Google and looking for old sites, it reveals a trail of deleted accounts and domain names that no longer resolve. But did she find an old computer or something? I don't know. Maybe. She's definitely taking a trip down memory lane. I know, man. I've moved countries, so most of my physical stuff was either given away or thrown into a landfill across the Atlantic. The fact that Stuff You Should Know still exists and still making episodes that are just as good as I remember them being as incredible very nice. Wow, this is crazy. This is from Hazel. She has to we have a PO box so she can send some Japa Cakes. I don't remember if I gave Hazel our address. Well, please do. But Hazel, if you're right back, we'll give you our address and we can get some chocolate cakes. Thanks for coming back. Yeah, we appreciate that. And we're glad to have kept the home fires burning for you there, Hazel. I'd like to hear from Sarah. Sarah Sparrow, the amazing 90 year old fan. Yeah, she's eleven years old. I think she was at the time. No, she was like was she like eight or nine? Yeah, I can't remember when she started. Yeah, but she was really young. She became a cool teenager. She definitely did. But maybe she'll become an actually cool college student. That's right. Well, thanks a lot, Hazel. If you left us and came back and thought it was as good as ever, we can hear that stuff all day long. You can tweet to us at Joshmclark or S-Y-S kpodcast. You can join us on Facebook.com. Charlesw Chuckbryantwna. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@housetuffworks.com. As always, join us at our home on the web stuffyshnow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseworks.com. Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school's out, the sun's shining, the daylight's longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgarrea and Georgia, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | |
f2acff01-0881-43f5-b857-ae910001f777 | What are land acknowledgments? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/what-are-land-acknowledgments | Land acknowledgements are all the rage in some parts of the world. But they also open a can of worms if not done properly. Learn all about this increasingly common practice today.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | Land acknowledgements are all the rage in some parts of the world. But they also open a can of worms if not done properly. Learn all about this increasingly common practice today.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | Tue, 10 May 2022 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2022, tm_mon=5, tm_mday=10, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=130, tm_isdst=0) | 42812895 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. And Jerry's here too. And this is stuff you should know, right? This is about land acknowledgments and Libya. One of our awesome writers helped us put this together. And I was just noticing the other day, when we're thinking about topics and who should tackle them, it feels like everyone has I mean, everyone can do everything, but some feel like, oh, this should be so and so because it just feels like a fit. And I knew Libya, this would be a great fit for her, and she did a killer job. Greedy, because this is a tough one. Land acknowledgments is a controversial thing, mainly because of the clunkiness in which it's carried out in most cases. Boy, you just said a mouthful, friend. Yeah. So, land acknowledgments, if you don't know what we're talking about, if you've possibly ever been to a Montreal Canadians game, give us a bad example. In character. I show up at a concert at a large venue in Canada. I'm going to see the reunion of Poison and her buddy CC Deville, and I met the enormous dome, and someone that looks like you walks out with a microphone before the show and go, okay, we acknowledge that this Poison show is about to take place on First Nations land who are excellent stewards of this land. And on with the show. Perfect. Bad example. Yes. That's supposed to be bad. That wasn't just me. Yeah, and that's the last time we're going to laugh in this episode. Disagree. We always say that, and then there's something funny that comes up, but it's a serious topic because it's something that hasn't been figured out. It's still very contemporary, it's still very raw. It rouses a lot of emotions. It's one of the points of the spear of the culture wars in America, and from what I gather, Canada as well, in Australia, New Zealand, probably. Yeah, but the whole point of the land acknowledgment is basically say, like, hey, this land was probably stolen. It was probably taken from a broken treaty. The people who originally lived here were probably forced off the land. They're still in terrible shape in a lot of ways today compared to their white or black or Latinx or Asian counterparts in this country, and we should probably do something about that. At the very least, we should acknowledge it and keep them from getting erased from history in its ideal form. That's what a land acknowledgment is. But the problem is there's a lot of people out there, especially, who are probably right of center, who don't want to hear that kind of stuff. They don't like that it's snowflake stuff. There are people left of center who are like, that is the most vapid thing I've ever heard. It makes no difference whatsoever. And the fact that you're even saying it makes things worse than if you didn't say anything at all, just go away. And there are the people who are actually doing these land acknowledgments who very frequently are like corporate HR reps who are doing it to whitewash their company's activities elsewhere. It's just a mixed bag. But yet the reason why it's important is because there's some kernel there that is important, that makes sense, that makes it worthwhile and worth exploring and not just tearing down, not just going ahead and doing rote, but actually using it as a jumping off point for kind of re exploring and revisiting history and then hopefully creating redress to that history. Yeah, boy. Well said. It was off the cuff. You mean you wrote it down on your cuff? Yes. And read it? Yes. And I'm wearing my very nice little orphanani cufflinks today. Very nice. She was staring back at me, admiringly the whole time. All right, so we should dive into a little bit of the history here, because if you go to Australia thousands of years ago, you would find something called a welcome to country ceremony from indigenous people, which was sort of a protocol, diplomatic protocol, where a nation or a tribe would visit another person's land and the people that hosted them would have a welcome to country ceremony. It might have been a poem or a song. There might have been a smoking ceremony, you know what I'm saying? And in the mid 1970s, white Australians started getting into this idea and this practice. And it was that year, in 1976, there was a group of Maori and Cook Islander dancers who were coming. They were invited to come to a performance, a multicultural dance performance in Perth at the International Arts Festival there. And they said, you know what? We're not going to come unless we are welcomed by the traditional owners of this land. In 1976, they said, this is a performer named Richard Wally and a member of and Boy, I'm going to do my best with these pronunciations. I really tried this time and looked everything up. Me, too. Because part of the problem with a bad land acknowledgment is some dumb white person mispronouncing the name of a tribal indigenous person like this. Do you want to give a go on this one? This is your section. All right. The troublesome part about the Internet is you can find different pronunciations, but what I landed on was in Western Australia. These were the younggar people. Very nice. Chuck spelled N-Y-O-O-N-G-A-R. So they all agreed that this should happen? They got permission from the elders and he welcomed the visitors. And this was Richard Wally in that language and sang a song from their people. Yeah. And Richard Wally was a member of those people, so there was a legitimacy to him performing this welcome to country ceremony, welcoming these dancers, who very rightfully and very traditionally said, we can't really set foot in Perth unless we're welcomed, like, that's just custom. And so it's very interesting to me that you can trace this phenomenon back to one arts festival in Perth in 1976. In this one incident, this one happening, and it just kind of spread from there. It didn't spread like wildfire or anything like that. It was pretty sedate. It was wrapped up in, like, midnight oil stuff throughout the kind of radical politics, I guess you could say, to where probably people on the farthest left were the ones who were carrying out welcome to country ceremonies or having those performed at their events. And then in the 90s, Australia really started to kind of, like, self reflected its history of its treatment of Aboriginal Australians. And one of the things that kind of came out of that self reflection was this idea that welcome to country ceremonies were, like, a really great way of honoring this heritage and kind of bringing Aboriginal culture back into Australian society, where it had been so zealously pushed out for so long. Yeah. And this sort of morphed over, I guess, between the in Australia to where the welcome to country was, in some cases replaced by an acknowledgment of country, which would and this was in the beginning days would be a short speech, like we said, it would recognize the traditional landowners that were local. And in the it was sometimes an Indigenous person doing this, sometimes a non Indigenous person doing this. And eventually the National Indigenous Australians Agency came up with basically some guidelines. Right? Yeah. They basically said that whole welcome to country thing. Do not do that unless you're an Indigenous person. And if you're an Indigenous person, you should only be doing it if it's your people's land that this event is being held on. If you're nonindigenous or you're Indigenous but not a member of the land, what you'd be doing is an acknowledgment of country, which is just basically like what you would call a land acknowledgment today, where you don't have to be Indigenous. You're just basically acknowledging that the land was originally owned, inhabited, trod upon, used, cared for by an Indigenous group. Or if you want to really just kind of miss the whole thing, just say Indigenous people in general. Right. In Canada is where it took off in North America first. And this is not that long ago. This was about seven years ago, in 2015. Canada's Truth and Reconciliation Commission released a big report that year basically addressing the residential schools and the removal and we should do a bad episode about this for sure, the removal of Indigenous children from their families and basically said this was a cultural genocide. And this is when Justin Trudeau was coming into office, and he was really big on during the campaign, for sure, on reconciliation with Indigenous people is a big part of his platform and something he wanted to get accomplished in office. Yeah. And so just like in Australia, the idea of land acknowledgements seem to be a really good low hanging fruit as far as kind of reintroducing the presence of indigenous first nation people into Canadian society and not ignoring them, not erasing them from history, actually acknowledging them in the past that took place here or there in Canada. But the thing is, it also kind of like, underscores just how easy it is, which can be problematic, as we'll see too. Yeah, for sure. It spread from Canada to the US. It trickled down south in the late 2000 teens. Is that how you would say that? Sure. Like 20, 17, 20, 18. In 2017, the US. Department of arts and culture, which sounds like a government agency, but it's not. It's an independent group. They published a guide to land acknowledgments for the United States. The group's founder, Adam horowitz, came out and said that it was downloaded more than 7000 times. And he said, one lonely beastie b all by myself. I got nobody. Very nice and very bad joke. I thought it was a great joke. I didn't even think it was dad. I don't think you can make a dad joke about the beastie boys unless you had one at the beastly. They are written on your cuff. What was it? Can you say your version? The kingdrock. That is my name. And I know the fly spot where they got the champagne. I taught my daughter a line. That was not something that the kids should say when she was, like, four. And Emily was so mad at me. She was so afraid she was going to say it in kindergarten, and I think she's forgotten it by now, I'll tell you off the air. Okay. Sorry, everybody, for that tease. But now in the United States, you will find cities like Denver, phoenix, and Portland that have adopted these guidelines. The national park service has, NASA has. You might have heard it at the academy awards or the macy's thanksgiving day parade or the democratic national convention. Not the republican national convention. No. And so this is a thing that is kind of brand new. If you look at a timeline over the past three or four years that America is treading into very gingerly, gingerly, awkwardly keeps running into the doorframe, all sorts of different stuff. And I think before we kind of go back into why you would even do this and how you would do it, I feel like we should take a commercial break. Let's do it. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office when you could be using stamps.com? Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses, because stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and ups shipping services you need right from your computer. That's right, you can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer, no special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS rates and 86% off Ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale. No longterm commitments or contracts, just go to Stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. So there are a number of reasons to use the land acknowledgement. And again, this is usually what opens your meeting, your conference. Like, you could see it if you're in a beautiful conference hall in the woods in a kind of a beautiful remote area. I can totally see that. But I've also heard of these things being used on conference calls and just at regular meetings in the city, so it can get kind of weird. But the overall point of it is that if you're not an indigenous person and you're reading a land acknowledgement, supposedly you're thanking the people who used to live there in pre colonial days for being stewards of the land. You probably also are in some way, shape or form, whether subtly or overtly, also acknowledging that violence is why they don't live there anymore, and violence by the white colonists and or the federal government. And then also if you really want to make your land acknowledgement pop, you can say, and this is how we can build connections to these people who have been harmed and are still harmed, and it can get even more nuanced and deeper than that. Yeah, and it's a mouthful to get up before your work conference and talk about people being raped and murdered and displaced and treaties broken and the fact that the oppression of indigenous Americans is ongoing and the problem is far from solved. That's going to put a damper on whatever awesome energy you're trying to start with if it's a sales conference. Yeah, so people are trying to figure out the best way to do that. And sometimes, as we'll learn it is a shorter acknowledgement where they will then point people to, hey, our company has this website, or a page on our website probably so where you can really dive in and learn about what we can do. And this is what our own company is doing, including hiring programs or training programs with the people who once lived here. That is the ideal, is that there's actually something being done and it's not just words being spoken. Right. So they're still trying to figure this out. Who knows where it will end up, but it's been a little clumsy so far, like you said, bumping into different ways. And there are also other reasons why people do land acknowledgements rather than just kind of like make their company look with it or sympathetic or empathetic even. I was not going to but yes, you could use that word. One of them is to just show solidarity and support for the idea of truth and reconciliation, to just say like, oh, you wanted to pump all the bits and muffins up to go sell a bunch of mufflers. Well, TS, because I'm going to suck the air out of this room with this clunky land acknowledgement and it's going to make them think a lot more than this little page that you guys have on your website that five people are going to visit in the history of the internet. So I think there are some people who say like, yeah, that's exactly what it's supposed to do to kind of suck people into it. Also, another big thing is to kind of begin to repair relationships between American society and the indigenous cultures that have kind of been pushed out of American society and continue to be kept there acknowledgement of the fact that American government did a lot of really terrible stuff to indigenous people in addition to enslaved people in the past. And that just by talking about it in random, weird places makes people think about it. It keeps it from being erased. It actually does the opposite of keeping it from being a race that kind of scribbles. It almost like graffiti into everyday life of people. A good land acknowledgment could do that. So there's a lot of different reasons to do it beyond what I think most people who are opposed to landing acknowledgements accuse people doing that of which is morally performing moral exhibitionism is what a lot of people challenge it with and it's not supposed to be, at least that's, right? So I guess we could talk a little bit about how you go about doing this to begin with. The first thing, there's something called the Native Governance Center, which is Native led nonprofit that has resources for native nations. And it's a good place to start because they will say, hey, if you go to do this, the first thing you should do is take a good hard look in the mirror as a company and why are you doing this to begin with? And if your reason is just to rattle off something so you appear to be forward thinking and acknowledging something in a sort of a blithe way, then that's not a good reason to do it. After that, after you have made that right within yourself as a company and you want to press forward, then you have to do some research because you can't just open Wikipedia and say, oh, the Apple headquarters is built on the land of these people because it says so right here in the sentence. So let me just type up a quick little thing and we're done, right? It can be very challenging to find who the indigenous peoples of a land are because they moved around a lot, and because they were forcibly removed a lot, they sometimes traveled with the waters and the riverways, and it's not as easy as you might think. So you have to really put in the work to really find this out. And as we'll see, one of the controversies is putting that onus on the indigenous peoples and saying, hey, let's just go find some of them and let them do this research for us. And we're not going to pay them or anything like that, but we want to get it right, and they want to get it right, so do it for us. Right? Yeah. I saw that compared to a land acknowledgment is basically like a receipt that a thief gives you after stealing your stuff, but then having an indigenous group actually create the land acknowledgment for you is having somebody that you've just stolen from write the receipt to themselves on your behalf. That's ultimately what you're doing. Yeah. There are actually websites, there's apps that have been set up to help make land acknowledgement research a little easier. I found one you can text your zip code to, not a rick roll or spam. I tried it myself, and it texts you back the name of the group that lived in your area. That seems like the Simpsons, doesn't it? Kind of, a little bit, but it's legit. Yes, but if you like you said, you just take that copy and paste it into your land acknowledgment, and that's that. Then you've just done something that's worse than not doing a land acknowledgment at all, which is an incompetent inept thoughtless. Land acknowledgment. That's literally worse than not doing a land acknowledgment. Yeah. So after you've done your research and you have really found out the true origins of the people of that space that you're in. You should reach out to them. And like I said. Not just dash off your own few lines on your computer. But actually get in touch with them and say. Hey. I don't want you to do the work for me. But can we work together on this? And how would you like this to go down? How much detail would you like? And maybe follow their lead for a change and see what they want. And they said that that's a really good second step. Yeah. And also, you might not be able to fit as much detail as you want to, or certainly everything you turn up in your research if you do decent research. Because, again, land acknowledgements and following kind of that tradition of welcome to country ceremonies, they go at the beginning of an event. And because these are such random events, from a corporate retreat to a Canadian hockey game, it's bolted onto the front. There's no easy way to put it in there except to just do it. And so to take up a lot of space at the beginning of a Canadians game or corporate retreat or whatever, explaining the detailed history and inter tribal relations between the people who lived on this land before, and then they're dealing with the United States government and their removal, and what are they doing today? What can we do to help them? That's not what land acknowledgments are meant to be. But ultimately, for a satisfying, like, decent, good land acknowledgment, you have to figure out how to distill that down into just a few sentences. It's almost like writing poetry. Dude, retirement job for us. I guess we should start up the land acknowledgers.com. And at the beginning of every single thing, josh and Chuck show up and do a short stuff, right? Just say, give us 15 minutes and we will speak of all the atrocities and bring this room down to its lowest point. And then say, thanks, everybody, and Microsoft write us a big fat check. That's right. We'll say short stuff out. Short stuff is out, and so are we. That could be a pretty good gig for us. Yes, I think you're right, Chuck. Actually, I was wondering what we were going to do in retirement, but now I know do that. I have a real sense of security now. Thank you. Sure. So one of the things you're probably going to run into, though, too, Chuck, is you were saying, like, it's not as straightforward as, oh, this is the people who used to live here. I'm just going to copy and paste. You have to do some research. And when you're doing research, you're going to find out that there might be, like, more than one group that claims land to this. So that kind of opens up a whole cuddle of worms, too, while you're making this, because the whole point of this is to acknowledge the people whose land this was. And if you suddenly have two groups who are saying, this is my land no, this is my land, you're a non indigenous person about to step in to kick your event off, right. To step into hundreds of years old hornets nest. You really have to be careful if you're going to do this right, you need to understand a lot more than what it takes to just write a few sentences. Again, I just really wanted to hit that point. Yeah. And it can go beyond just land acknowledgement. There's also something called land and labor acknowledgment where if you do your research, you might find, all right, there were the indigenous peoples that lived here, but then this very town, this very city was sort of built on the backs of enslaved Africans. And that's the only reason why this place is a place now. So let's include that. The University of Chicago's land and labor acknowledgement mentions the four native nations that were forcibly removed in what is Chicago and what is now Chicago. And that the university was built on land donated by a man named Stephen A. Douglas, whose fortune was the product of enslaved Africans. So once you open this can of worms, it's pretty clear that there is a lot of acknowledgement to go around. Yeah. And usually it's institutional. I mean, you could trace the history of any plot of land and find all sorts of horrific things that individuals have done to other individuals, but it's usually ultimately, you're tracing, like, institutional violence against groups is the point of land acknowledgement or labor acknowledgment. Right. What's sad is if you start scratching beneath the surface of the history of any city, Chuck, you find that virtually none of them were built on rock and roll. It was way darker than that. In every case, I don't know what Jefferson Starship was talking about. They were just lying. Yeah, flat out lying. Makes me really second guess the whole white rabbit thing, too. Although that was Jefferson Airplane. But you know what I mean. I know what you mean. Sure. I know what you mean. I'm hip. I'm fly. Yeah, because you just made it. We built the city on rock and roll reference. That's right. The worst song in the history of music. Oh, I don't know about that. Oh, come on. You don't have that song. Oh, sure I do. I'm not like guilty pleasure. It's not like, my favorite song. I don't have it on my phone or anything. But if it's on, there's a 70% chance I won't turn it. You know what Guilty Pleasure song I've been rocking this week, which is a great song, and I shouldn't even call the Guilty Pleasure, but The Sign by Asabass. Yeah, all of their work was really good. It's such a great song, and my daughter loves it now. And when you have a kid who loves something they're like, I want to listen to it four times on the way to school. So I've been singing The Sign for two weeks straight in my head. It's pretty great. That is good. Are you wearing, like, a little black ribbon choker now? No, but I'm unashamed about my love of ace of a sure as you should be. Guilty schmielty. I'll tell you something, as far as guilty pleasures go, that I'm pretty happy with. I watched the Betty Broderick story starring Meredith Baxter. Bernie. From who's? Betty Bernie. Do you remember that she was a woman who was divorced by her husband and did not take that very well and kind of went off the rails, culminating in her going and sneaking into her ex husband and his new wife's bedroom at night and murdering them both with a gun? She married us back to Bernie. The mom from Family Size is the one who plays Betty Broderick, and she does it so well. And it's like a two part, three hour, made for TV movie. It's on Amazon Prime, if you have that. And every minute of it is just wonderful and great to watch. Yes. I love some of this stuff. Like, let's reject prestige TV that's going on now, and let's just go back to those days. I say we just include all the good stuff. Also, one more thing. While we're not talking about anything about land acknowledgements for a minute, have you seen Promising Young Woman? Oh, yeah, sure. That was a really good movie. It was great. I had no idea, but I would highly recommend that as well. Yeah, it was awesome. So before we talk about criticisms, which we'll get to last, we should talk a little bit about the ideal, which is that it doesn't just stop there on stage with an acknowledgment before you kick off the Muffler sales conference. There are ways that you can actually take action to make things better for Indigenous people because they're still suffering today in a lot of cases. It might be political causes that are championed by Native Americans. It might be universities offering free tuition for Indigenous I was about to say kids, but people of all ages, I guess I mentioned hiring programs by those very corporations that now sit on that land. Those are all some great things that companies can do to take action. Yeah. And you as a person, as an individual, if there's things that you want to do, you can show up to Native American rallies just to show support. There's a movement in Seattle called Real Rent Du Amish which says, hey, if you live in the Seattle area, you should pay rent to the Du Amish tribe, because this is originally land. Yeah. And the reason why there's so much to do is because Native Americans in the United States have lived in this limbo world again, just kept out of American society for so long. And unlike Canada, unlike Australia, the United States has not engaged in anything even approaching a truth and reconciliation or any kind of deep reflection about the history and the historical treatment of Native Americans in America. And so this still continues. And so, like, Native American is likelier to live in poverty more than any other group in America. There's a huge problem of the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls, which is such a problem. It has its own acronym, IWG, and that, of course, deserves its own episode too. We've gotten requests for that before. Yeah, for sure. Apparently there's also an issue. Olivia writes that Native American kids are frequently taken away from their families and put with white foster families, even when there's no evidence of abuse in the house. So, I mean, there's so much stuff we could be doing for Native American people in the United States that it completely undermines in a lot of ways the very presence of land acknowledgment, because people say there's so much to do that has nothing to do with it. Like, actually go do the actual stuff. And I saw. This article by a guy named Graham wood. It was in the Atlantic. It's called land acknowledgments, or just moral exhibitionism. He was the one who basically said that getting a native American or indigenous person to write your land acknowledgement was like getting them to write the receipt for the land you stole from them. Yeah, he said I would quote, some people argue that land acknowledgments are gestures of respect. I'm not sure one can show respect while also being indifferent to a people's existence. The statements are counterfeit versions of respect. Teen vogue put it well, if unintentionally, quote, land acknowledgment is an easy way to show honor and respect to the indigenous people. And he goes on, and then he says, real respect occurs only when accompanied by time, work, or something else of value. Learning basic facts about a particular tribe might be a start. Yeah, and I think that's the whole idea is that this is a starting point and the bare minimum for what should be a series of steps, especially if you're a corporation. Yes. Now, that's a huge thing. It's one thing if you're a person and you're having a poetry slam and you do this. That's cool. You're probably more likely to actually be doing something of action to help indigenous and native American people than the corporation is. Who's. Having land acknowledgements researched and written and performed at their retreats and their conferences and stuff like that. It's really well within fair game to call corporate America out about using land acknowledgements, because they're doing virtually nothing in the real world to help indigenous and native American groups. And in fact, in a lot of ways, they're actually oppressing them further and continuing their oppression and keeping them in a cycle of poverty. You got big cuffs today, my friend. Little orphan Annie is crying chrome plated tears right now. All right, let's take our last break. And when we come back, we'll talk about some of the criticisms and sort of poke around a little bit at the landback movement as well. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office? And you could be using stamps.com. Yeah. 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All right, if we're going to talk criticisms of land acknowledgments, we already talked about sort of a lot about the criticisms of how they're done poorly for people that support them, but there are people that don't support doing them at all. The United Conservative Party of Canada, when they took control in Alberta, stopped land acknowledgements period, and right wing Canadian politicians have called it just political correctness. I'm sure here in America the word woke and woke ism has been used to refer to stuff like this. But there's also criticisms that the history isn't even being portrayed accurately to begin with. Yeah, so there was a huge kind of, I guess, a political fight in Montreal when the Canadians started started doing land acknowledgements for their games. They were thanking the Ganyin Geha tribe or the Mohawk Nation, is how most of us know of them. And then it came up after they started doing these people were like, I don't think this is actually their land. Like, yeah, they lived here, but I don't think it was their land. So the Canadians had to revise it a little bit. And they still included the Ganyngea reference, but they also observed or acknowledged other tribes too. But then a lot of people were like, see, can't even get it right historically. Why is anybody doing this at all? And other people are like, look, yes, we got it slightly wrong historically, but that's certainly no reason to throw this out entirely. And the point is to actually acknowledge these people and that their land was stolen, even if you don't get it exactly right. And that's a big debate too. Yeah. And just the way that you talk about this land can be a little problematic to begin with because it's not appropriate to say that they owned this land because the idea of ownership to indigenous people of land wasn't even a thing. A lot of times I think they're called for being stewards of the land. That's I guess an acceptable workaround in a lot of cases, but I know that it's all just sort of a lightning rod for criticism. Yeah. The idea that they're stewards of the land, some Native American culture saw that themselves as that, but others are like, no, we belong to the land, so this doesn't make any sense at all. And then what's more, we really care more about these bodies of water than we do the land. Are you guys mentioning that kind of thing? Yeah. So, yeah, almost all criticisms come back to land acknowledgement doing it wrong, and then if somebody's really hopping on a very small thing, they probably don't like the idea of land acknowledgements in the first place, or acknowledging the plight of indigenous peoples in their country. But ultimately, if you do agree with it and you have a problem with it, it's that it's being done wrong. It's usually what your problem is. Yeah. And again, if you were to reach out to these people to begin with, you have a way better chance of getting it right, I think. Right. The other thing is that if you're just saying we acknowledge that this land used to be inhabited and cared for by indigenous peoples who lived here, and that's it there's almost like an unspoken and thanks to them for that. Right. You're keeping the existence of how that land changed hands from those people to your conference center and all the history in between. And all you're doing is perpetuating keeping the history of indigenous people out of society outside in a mythic past that can be easily romanticized. Too. Because Native American tribes did a lot of unsavory stuff or that we would today find unsavory and a mythic past. Too. That puts you at risk of turning the Native American people into the noble savage. Which is a huge issue in and of itself. Too. But again, it comes back to just doing it right, doing your research, doing it right, and then fitting it into a comprehensive but concise land acknowledgement. Yeah, for sure. And all of this I mention, the land back movement, this is a different topic, but I think we can sort of cover the broad strokes here at the end. The idea of giving land back to these people, it sounds crazy. Like, how would we even do that? But it has happened a little bit here and there, which may surprise some of you. The land back movement in the Black Hills, which here in the United States, where the Mount Rushmore Monument is located, was sacred Lakota site. And in 1980, the Supreme Court of the United States said, you know what? This land was stolen, and it violated the Fort Laramie Treaty of 1068. So why don't we settle this with money and offer some financial compensation as a settlement? And the Lakota tribe said, no, we don't want that. And they are still to this day pushing for the return of the Black Hills land. There's an Ojibwe writer named David Drewer that said, how about we take the 85 million acres of national parkland and we all own it with a big federally organized and recognized group of tribes that are still around, give that back to us, and you can still come here, but we can hunt on it and we can farm on it. And a little bit of that is happening. Some parts of the national park or national forest, they have allowed some hunting for indigenous peoples and some farming, which is going on. But he's like, Why don't you just give it all to us and you can still come visit. But that would be a nice start. You could still come visit for sure. They've also found that it's a really good way of preserving forests as well. Like, we kind of talked about it in the National Parks episode where the Forest Service is like, oh, we don't have any idea what we're doing wrong here. Maybe we should ask the Native American tribes who used to live here who managed this land to kind of give us some pointers. They found that land back actually helps restore forests and ecosystems that are proving to be problematic because we don't really quite know how to make them work correctly or allow them to work correctly. Yeah, they did it in Minnesota just a couple of years ago. In 2020, they transferred almost 12,000 acres of Forest Service land to a federal trust for the Leech Lake Band of Ojibwe. So it's happened here and there. Libby also points out that it's happened with individuals. There are a few cases of just landowners in the United States that said, here, have this two or three acres. I mean, it hasn't been like thousands of acres yet at this point, but the fact that individual citizens of the United States are giving land back to indigenous peoples, I think it's pretty cool. It's a good start. I agreed. That's certainly putting your money where your mouth is and it's just reading a land acknowledgment. Yeah, or like you said, paying actual rent, that's putting your money where your mouth is. You got anything else about land acknowledgment? I got nothing else. I hope we did a good job. We mentioned doing this one and we got a bunch of emails from people that said really helpful emails that said, hey, just waiting to this carefully. I think they thought they don't know us, of course we're going to do a good job. But they thought that we might just be like, hey, reading a thing is great. And that kind of solves all the problems. Yeah. Not sure we would dust our hands off as we walked away from the mic. No, not at all. If you want to know more about land acknowledgments, go to a Montreal Canadians game, a Microsoft retreat, or just go onto the Internet and start doing some research yourself. It's pretty interesting stuff and it's like Chuck said, a good place to start. And since I said a good place to start, that means it's time for listener mail. That's right. And before I read a listener mail and we were recommending TV shows and movies, since this is appropriate, I got to recommend the great TV show from last year, Reservation Dogs. I think I mentioned it once on the show, but it is fantastic and it explores the lives of these teenagers in rural Oklahoma. Indigenous teenagers. And it is, I think, Taikawa TT is executive producer, but the show is written and directed and crewed up mainly by indigenous peoples and it is a great show. It is very funny, very moving, very heartwarming. I love it. I love it. Can't wait for season two. Very nice. All right, listener mail. What should I do here? How about the sloppy pub? Okay. And what we have here is a listener that very much accurately named the sloppy pub that I went to in Manchester. And while I'm doing that, I believe someone found the one in Ireland for you. Correct? Yeah. The brazen head down by the Guinness factory. It's amazing. That's right. And do you know who sent that to you? Can you find that while I read this? Yeah. All right, so I'm going to read this. Hey, guys, just finished listening to the episode on pubs. It was great. I think you mentioned the sloping pub on a previous episode, and being from Manchester, I immediately knew what you were referring to. I think the pub in question is the Marble Arch, which is just on the outskirts of the city center. It's a great place that's run by a small brewery. And wow, is that floor confusing. If you've had a few keep up the great work and listening for five years can't get enough, especially with subjects like these that have local relevance. And I looked it up, he sent a couple of pictures. It was for sure the Marble Arch, and it is not in the City Center, where all the other kind of hangout pubs and bars are. I was on a walk and I stumbled upon it. And if you're ever in Manchester, go check it out, because it's great. And that is from Hugh. Nice. And also we want to say thank you very much to Susie from Dublin, who at the very least, used to work in Dublin, who correctly named the Brazen Head for me. So. Thanks, Susie. And Hugh. Awesome. I knew they would come through. Yeah, we'll come through. Thanks to Susie and Hugh. If you want to be like Susie and or Hugh, you can get in touch with us via email to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My Heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows." | |
d6290228-3b0d-11eb-aa42-dbc2dfb0380d | How Groundhog Day Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-groundhog-day-works | You know Groundhog Day – the holiday on February 2 when you wake up and have to go through the same day over and over again. It turns out the holiday has deep roots in a pagan past, and has survived in a surprisingly similar form. | You know Groundhog Day – the holiday on February 2 when you wake up and have to go through the same day over and over again. It turns out the holiday has deep roots in a pagan past, and has survived in a surprisingly similar form. | Tue, 02 Feb 2021 10:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2021, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=2, tm_hour=10, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=33, tm_isdst=0) | 47873955 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there, and Jerry's right over there. Internet Speaking Wise Days. And this is Stuff You Should Know special holiday edition that comes out on the holiday. Chuck. Now, can we call this a holiday? Yeah, Groundhog Day is definitely a holiday. Are you not a pagan? Well, no, I just thought holidays meant like, you don't work and business is closed. There's got to be somebody that's closed on Groundhog Day. Well, I bet certain people in a certain town well, actually, they're probably everything is open because it's got to be they're just doing this to make money, right? They would be total fools. They're like, yeah, I always close on ground, honey. I didn't think that through. So, yeah, we'll get to that town in a little bit. But first, Chuck, let's talk about groundhogs themselves. Because if you don't know what Groundhog Day is, don't worry. This isn't one of those ones where we need to define it for you. Just kick back and relax and let us guide you down the river of knowledge. Groundhogs. A-K-A Woodchucks podcast. Whistle Pigs. Yeah, other facts, another name. You know what they are? They're beautiful. They weigh twelve to \u00a315. They put a pin in this stat. They live six to eight years. That will come back later. They eat veggies and fruits. They're called Whistle Pigs sometimes because they whistle if they're scared or if they're looking for a mate. It's more of a chirping sound to me. Yeah, but Chirping Pigs is not as fun as Whistle Pigs. That explains that high end bourbon, though. I had no idea why it was called Whistle Pig, but it's named after ground. Whistle Pig? Is that high end? Yeah, it's pretty good. Okay. It's the kind they keep behind the counter. Well, it's on my shelf. I don't drink a lot of bourbon. Oh, well, go turn it up. Right now, while we're recording this, tell us what you think. All right, I'm back and I'm hammered everyone. They can climb trees, they can swim, and they hibernate in late fall. And this is kind of one of the important parts of Woodchucks and Groundhogs, and how they figure in the Groundhog Day. They hibernate in the fall and their body temperatures drop. That heartbeat slows down from 80 to about five beats a minute. They lose a lot of body fat, and then the males in February come out and say, who wants to do it, right? What's crazy, though, is when they come out, they don't actually do it. They more like, make plans for later. It's nervous, it's really weird. And the reason why they do this, they literally break hibernation, which can kill them. If they do it wrong and the timing is wrong, or they don't have enough body fat stored up, they do it because groundhogs are so ornery toward one another. They're really territorial about their food supply and their borough that they've probably made a lot of enemies and heard a lot of feelings over the past year. So they come out in February to basically be like, hey, how about you and I just bury the hatchet and I'm going to go back to sleep for a few more weeks, but when I come out, we'll totally do it. I'm going to bury something out. Oh, my God. And they do there's some sort of agreement, and they see each other. A few weeks later, the groundhog goes back to his borough, and then he comes out for good. He finishes hibernating in March and then the groundhog fornication can begin forth with post taste. That's right in that nuts. That's how organized they are. They have to come out and make planes for later. Yeah. They need just that chill time in between to really gather themselves to make sure they're up for it. I guess so. Yeah. So that's super cute. That's a nice little primer on who these little beasts are. But this is about Groundhog Day, the holiday where America shuts down. Government doesn't do business. The banks are closed. You can't buy a piece of gum to save your life. Oh, man, if only. So get that gum on February 1, everybody. That's right. But sometime between that point, between when America became a place in 1887, someone looked at the groundhog and this little hibernation thing that they did and they said, you know what? We also have this weird tradition that we're going to explain in a second where we like to try and predict when to plant crops and what the weather is going to do here toward the end of winter and the spring and let's mash that up into a weird, weird day to honor this little thing. Yeah. And that's Groundhog Day. That's where it came from. It's a couple of weird traditions, like you said, mashed together. And the other weird tradition, in addition to the groundhog coming out in February is this tradition of February 2 being observed as kind of this indicator of how much winter is going to be left. And it's based on an astronomical event called the cross quarter day, which was observed by the ancient Celts, the pagans I mentioned earlier. And Crosscourse days are pretty interesting. It's a day of the year, and there's four of them that fall between a solstice and an equinox. And a solstice is where the sun is either at the most northern or southernly part of the sky, depending on what hemisphere you're in. So it's either summer or winter solstice. And then the equinox is where the equator of the Earth and the equator of the sun are on an equal plane. Just for a minute. Just for a moment, I should say. And you have your vernal, or spring and autumnal, fall equinox. So those are four quarter dates, and then in between those are four cross quarter dates that carve up, I guess, the year even further into the ancient Celts. It seems like to them, the cross quarter dates weren't the midway point of anything. They were the beginning point, whereas to us, the quarter dates, the solstices and the equinox are the beginning of the seasons. The Celts didn't see it that way, and so they really celebrated the cross quarter dates. Yeah, it's kind of like, I guess an American might see them as sort of a seasonal hump day where you're kind of smack dab in the middle of things and we don't observe them like they do. But I feel like just instinctively, in sort of early to mid February every year, late January, my psyche sort of starts to think about, all right, we're easing towards spring. I feel like we're about halfway there. Right. And this is an Atlanta event that's the ancient pagan blood coursing through your veins. It might be. I think we were pagans, but yeah, but to the pagans, it wasn't like the halfway point. It was the beginning. So on February 2, it's cross quarter day. It was actually a day called well, it was called a number of things, but to the Celts, it was the beginning of spring. At first, they called it in bulg, which means in the belly, like the world, the earth is pregnant and about to give birth into spring. I like that. Yeah. It was when the lambing season began, which I don't think I like that. No, you do. If you look up Lamming pictures, that's when all the baby lambs are born and hopping around. I thought it might be when they're harvesting. That's what I thought, too. And no, that probably comes a little bit later, but this is when everything's still cute and sweet. Okay. They also called it Brigantia, after Bridget, the female deity of light. And the whole point was that the sun had really kind of been hiding for most of the winter, ever since the winter solstice, and now it was starting to kind of creep out. And to those of us who are like, this is the halfway point. It's kind of like, come on, son, keep going. And when the Christians got their hands on the Celts, the pagans, they said, well, how about this? Let's call this like the Festival of Lights, and we'll commemorate that. This is like the part of winter where it's starting to get sunnier and sunnier by having you guys bring your candles around the church and we're going to bless them, and then they'll just keep burning for the rest of the winter. How about that? That's right. They turn them into magic candles. It became known not only as festival lights, but candle moss. And you'll hear that word a few times later on. And it's sort of still grounded in seasons, though, and the whole thing here is like as far as the ancient Celts go, and then people since then farmers, namely when is the weather going to turn here? When is that ground going to thaw? When can we expect good weather and not be fooled into planting only to have it frost again and kill those early buds? That's something that you, now that you've taken up gardening and stuff at your house. You will be frustrated by this now too, my friend, when that happens. Oh yeah, the frost, the early frost, I should say. I'm scared to work, I can't sleep well. Emily always like when things start blooming too early. She's like, no, stop. Yeah, I know it's going to frost again. It always does. I had to stop myself. No, I failed to stop myself. I fertilized too late in the season and I had a big problem with that. Man, my anecdotes have just really gone downhill in the last twelve years. I predicted your gardening way back in the day. I don't know if you remember that. In what episode? How gardening? No, someone's going to have to find it. But you kind of tease me and I said, you're going to get into it one day, trust me. And you're like, that doesn't sound like me. Yeah, it's sort of a gardening thing. Yeah, I'm actually surprised at that, but I'll take your word for it. I do want to know. So anybody out there, if you know what Chuck is talking about, let us know what episode it is. And a timestamp will be great too, so he can erase it. All right. So like I said, they were trying to figure out when to plant and it was not a good omen if it was bright and sunny because that was a sign of snow and a late frost to continue on and that would not be a good time to plan. And this is all a little confusing, if I'm being honest. Yeah. So the whole thing was if at Candle, moss, February 2, if that day was nice out, if the sun was shining, if there were no clouds in the sky, that actually meant that there was going to be a much longer period of winter left. And the reason why that kind of makes sense from a farmer standpoint is, one, maybe you're saying, well, this portends a growing season where it's just going to be nice out and there's not going to be any rain. You don't want that. But also, number two, it's like you said, that kind of weather might fool the plants into starting to grow again and then bam, they get hit with a late frost. So even though it seems counterintuitive, if it's nice out on February 2 at Candlemas, to the ancient Celts that meant that there was more winter coming. If it was the opposite, if it was overcast, maybe even storming, if it was just gross out, it meant that winter was almost over, that it was more than halfway over. And you're probably going to see spring pretty soon. So that is the initial way that February 2 kind of plays into this whole thing. So you know what my problem with this is? And you put this one together and you kind of came up with some other signs found in nature and different cultures where they sort of look to the natural world to kind of tell the future. Like the width of the bands of a woolly caterpillar, the size and number of webs a spider might spin in the fall, how the squirrels are gathering their nuts. Would you call it frantic or calm? Or when the geese depart from the north, how thick corn husks are at harvest. I love all that stuff because to me, that is like pre science. Science. Yeah. I think all of that stuff is kind of rooted in some maybe it might be a reach for some, but some sort of scientific basis. And it was just from people observing, which was sort of the first science, was observation. But to me, this one is the least scientific of them all. Because it's just one day. Yeah, like, it is. It's just one day. Like, if it's February 2, if it's candle moss, and this is the condition and that's your indicator, I guess it is the least unscientific prescience measure of what's the most unsafe. Yeah, it really is. It's on par with drowning a person as a witch. Because your prediction for the winter didn't come true. The woolly caterpillars bands didn't pretend the future after all, because there's probably something I don't know about the caterpillar, but I bet you there's some little nugget of science in there as to how their bands grow depending on weather. Yeah, I like the kelt stuff. Oh, man, that reminds me. So I read this article in The New Yorker not too long ago, and it's about we got to do an episode on it. There's this lake, a little lake way up in the Himalayas in the middle of nowhere in this really dangerous path, and there's always been a bunch of skeletons jumbled together at the bottom of this lake, and you can clearly see them. So anthropologists went in and grabbed these skeletons or some of them, to take samples, and it turns out some of them seem to be from southern Italy, maybe even from Greece, from the Mediterranean. They have no business whatsoever. And where is it? Up in the Himalayas? Like in Nepal? Right? Just along, I think, a Hindu or a Buddhist pilgrimage path. And it's just really bizarre that they're there. But the author took some time to just kind of go off on the side and talk about how there was this spread of this group from the steps of Russia many thousands of years ago. They basically brought the Indo European language our way, but also were super patriarchical super rapey, super murdery, and they really had an impact. You can tell a lasting impact today and how just humans operate. But apparently in Western Europe and including the British Isles, the celts seemed to be much more peaceful, much more egalitarian. Women held much more powerful roles than they did under this other group, and it really kind of drove home, like, wow, history could have gone a totally different direction. And, like, where would we be right now if the other group hadn't come out of the steps and dominated the rest of Europe and just basically change this fertility worshiping, nature cult into this hierarchical, patriarchical, murderous civilization that's basically Western civilization today? I think the people in the movie Mid Summer would agree with you. That was a good movie. I kept thinking about that as well during this. Of course, I watched that again and had a better feeling about it. Yeah, I didn't love it the first time. Some crazy folk horror, man. It is really something else. I only seen it once. I need to see it again. Well, maybe you won't like it the second time. I hope that's not true, but it's possible. All right, here's what we're going to do. We're going to take a break, okay? We're going to regather ourselves, and we're going to bring it back to February 2 right after this. All right? So we set up what was going on back in the day, and Groundhog Day is just something that survived from that ancient practice. Back then, especially in Germany, they had a tradition of waking up a badger probably not a good idea, and seeing if it would crawl back into its borough to see if it was a sign of bad weather ahead, and then that eventually makes it over to the United States. Some people in Pennsylvania that settle Pennsylvania took that idea, adapted it to groundhogs, I guess, because there were more groundhogs and badgers, right. And started looking at these groundhogs coming out and whether or not they would see their shadow or whether or not the people would see the shadow. It was the Germans who came over who said, well, wait, there's no badgers, so how are we going to tell about whether there's winter left or not? They said, well, groundhogs will do, I guess. And the fact that they were present and then brought the superstition with them, that was based on this combination of badgers coming out of their borough and going back and then candle moss, and the fact that there weren't any badgers and groundhogs will have to do. That's where Groundhog Day came from. Isn't that bizarre? It is. But if you really want to talk about Groundhog Day and what we'd know as Groundhog Day, the sort of goofy, fun, money making scheme that they came up with is it can be traced back to one dude. February 2, 1887. The very first Groundhog Day celebration was created by climber Freeze Freas, the editor of the Pungsatani Spirit newspaper. And Pungsitani is about 80 miles from Pittsburgh. They're in Western Pennsylvania. It's a coal mining town, and it's a very small town. I think it's indigenous name from the Native American peoples was Town of the Sandflies. Yeah, the Lynappy. Did they have sand flies? Did they have sand? I guess I don't know why else the linepi would have called it that. And I was like, sand flies don't sound great. Keep people out of there. Sandflies are terrible. Not only does their bite hurt, but they spread all sorts of diseases, too. And Punk Satani basically means sand fly town. So I guess there was a real sand fly problem there at some point, but there's no sand. This is Western Pennsylvania. Did they have sand there? I think a lot of the United States was marshy before we started developing it, so there's probably a lot of marsh around Western Pennsylvania at the time. I thought they just might have really liked the settlement, and it'd be like naming something like Home of the Bedbug or something. Isn't that why Iceland is called Iceland? And that's the old story that they basically wanted to reach people. Either that or else the settlers of Greenland wanted to make Iceland look bad and Greenland look good. So they called Iceland Iceland, something like that. I mean, that's one of the first little things you hear in elementary school from that guy, right? Did you know that Iceland is green and Greenland is Iceland? I remember. I remember giving that kid a wedgie. Oh, wait, I was the kid who got the wedgie. Okay, it makes a lot more sense. So here we are in 1887, and Climber Freeze has stumbled upon a great little money maker to bring thousands of people to his town to spend money. Actually, he started it a year before that, just ever so briefly. As the publisher of the Punk, Tony Spirit, he published a line that said, today is Groundhog Day, and up to the time of going to press, the beast has not seen its shadow. And the fact that he doesn't spend any time explaining what he's talking about suggests that it was already pretty well established, at least in the town of Punks Atani at the time, probably in western Pennsylvania with their large German and large groundhog population. And that was it. That was the first mention in a newspaper in America of Groundhog Day. And because Groundhog Day is specifically American invention based on ancient Celtic and German traditions, this would be the first time in the world anyone ever mentioned it in the paper. So he plants that seed. He wants to get a buzz going. He's like, I'm going to tease this out over a year. No one's going to know what's coming. No one's going to know what hit him in 1887. And in that year that idea was brewing. He founded he got some folks together, groundhog hunters, and called it the Punctatani Groundhog Club that would become that in. They were groundhog hunters. Groundhogs were pest, and they would go around kill groundhogs. Apparently they would eat them. It was a delicacy that they served to out of towners at first, I guess guinea pigs, just to see if they died. And then the locals started eating groundhogs, which I can't imagine tastes very good. No, but that's hilarious that the tradition of Groundhog Day grew out of these people eating groundhogs like groundhog hunters. Terrible. Terrible. But also hilarious. And the fact that they served them to out of towners first also just really gets me. But this punk Tony Groundhog Club, they held the first Groundhog Day in 1887, as you were saying before, and I could not find to save my life why they chose Gobbler's Knob. But there may be a clue in why Gobbler's Knob is named that. There are two possible reasons given. One is that I guess it was a hangout for turkeys. It's okay, great. Or it was the place that traditionally groundhog hunters or hunters of any woodland animal would kind of come out of the woods to this hilly area and eat what they had just caught, or cook and eat what they just caught, possibly having picnics in the area. So it would make sense that the Groundhog Club would go to Gobbler's Knob, where they would normally eat groundhog if this was already associated with groundhogs in that way. But either way, that's where they help. Picturesque. Yeah, picturesque and bloody. Yeah. But I mean, it makes sense to have a thing there is what I'm saying, right? Yeah, it is quite beautiful. But that's where the first Groundhog Day in 1887 was held, and it has been basically ever since. I mean, there was a stretch here there where they didn't do it, but as they were first starting to get their footings. But I think from the turn of the last century onward, it's been at Gobbler's Knob every year. Yeah. And I think of that first one, the groundhog saw his shadow. And for parts of the area, and this is kind of how it goes, of course, with something that's unscientific. Parts of the area, it worked out, parts of the area, it did not work out as far as winter ending sooner than later. Well, I think that's kind of par for the course for Phil. We'll see. And so, although we can thank Climber Freeze for giving us Groundhog Day, like I said, it's clear this is already an established tradition. I think the earliest mention they've been able to find if somebody referencing Groundhog Day goes back to 1841, where a guy named James Morris wrote in his diary about he mentioned Groundhog Day. And I don't think he said whether the groundhog saw a shadow or not. He just mentions it and kind of describes it. So it had been around for many decades before Climber Freeze came along with it. But Climate Freeze is definitely the one to popularize it. Yeah, I mean, he started writing about it and writing about this amazing groundhog that could foretell the future weather. And it's all tongue in cheek and good fun. We have to talk about Punctuani film, of course, the famous groundhog that is still the groundhog of record in Pungsitani full name. Pungsitani Phil sear of Sears sage of Sages prognosticator of prognosticators and weather profit Extraordinary is Phil's full name? That's right. It's very cute. I guess he wasn't named Phil until the first half or the middle of the last century because the Punctney Groundhog Hog Club on their website says that he is named after King Philip, and King Philip is not, I don't think, who they're talking about. I think they're referencing Prince Philip. Who is Queen Elizabeth's husband. And he wouldn't have really become a public figure until 30s, maybe the 40s or 50s. So before that, that stretch. But the groundhog was known as brotherhog or brother groundhog. That's what they all called him before. But the thing about Pungsatani Phil, which is what he's named now, he may have had different names, but the Punctone Groundhog Club maintains that he's still the same groundhog that the group came upon back in 1887. That it's this magically, long living groundhog who's been alive for, I guess, now 133 years since that first Groundhog Day in 1887. Right. So, you know, we said earlier to put a pin in the fact that groundhogs live was it like six to eight years or something like that? Is that ten in captivity? Sure. Well, he's in captivity, but 133, it seems like it's way beyond that. Yeah. So they cooked up a fun little story there. They said that Phil was able to live so long because he drinks a punch made of dandelions every summer. And I think they saw the riding on the wall and said, hey, we can make another money making day out of this thing if we have a little summer festival picnic thing where Phil drinks this dandelion juice, as it were. And so now they have a big celebration for Phil's annual drinking of the daisy juice. Right. Or dandelion juice. And we mentioned that years back, the groundhog was treated as a pest and eaten. Hunted and eaten, and that they may have had, like, a picnic around Gobbler's Knob to eat the groundhogs. This annual tradition now, where they all celebrate Phil gaining seven more years to his life, seems to have been based on the annual groundhog hunt and roast. So they went from eating groundhogs to pretending that this one has been alive for 133 years thanks to this magical potion that he drinks. I wonder if they make great efforts to get a groundhog that really looks like the original film. I think groundhogs look a lot alike to humans. Yeah, sure. But it's like, UGA, for the Georgia Bulldogs. Like, they have different Uggas, right? And White Bulldogs, all the Uggs look a little bit different, and we all like that's part of the personality of each UGA. But I think the groundhogs you're saying he didn't have a big white stripe down the middle of his head or anything? I see what you mean. Yeah, they've got because the thing about the August is it's August 6 or that's August Million or something like that, they're meant to be different Uggas, but they're all related in some way, at least through school spirit. This is supposed to be all of the successive groundhogs. Whenever they come upon him in his borough and he's not moving any longer, they would, I guess, kind of have to find a groundhog that looks kind of like him so that they can be like, well, this is the same money. He's been around for 133 years. All I'm saying is it's probably not very hard to pull the wool over human beings eyes when they're like, no, it's the same crownhog. I think the Uggs are all the same family line, if I'm not mistaken. Is that right? I don't know if all of them in history, but I think there's a very prominent Savannah family where all the Uggies come from, if I'm not mistaken. I should know that the main guy, the guy who was on trial at midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, wasn't he the UGA breeder for a while? I don't know, but it had something to do with that. I feel like he had something to do with the Uggas, and if not, like, the actual the owner of the August's mom or something. Yeah. Pretty good movie. I never read the book. I did both, and they were both pretty good. It was one of those ones where the movie is just about as good as the book. Back when you could watch a Kevin Spacey movie. That's right, yeah. Creeped out. Yes. And John Cusack does a good job, too. That's right. And you could watch a John Kuzak movie and not be creeped out. So let's take a break here, and we'll talk about we mentioned that when Phil dies in the dead of night, they have to get him out of there quietly. We'll talk about how they might do that right after this. Okay, so we're back, and we have a dead groundhog on our hands. Yeah. Well, if punk Satani Phil passes away, which has clearly happened probably every eight to ten years, they can do so quietly because Phil leads a very pampered life, an indoor life, you might say. Oh, yeah. Cushy, because he has handlers. He has a full sort of staff of volunteers that look after Phil, and they all have funny titles like Shinglesaker or Chief Health Man. And they make sure Phil leads a pretty cush life there in captivity. I've read that he eats a lot of. Ice cream and actually had to have a tooth removed once because he had a cavity from eating so much sugar. Yes, he's basically kept very happy and strong out on junk food, I guess. But the Inner Circle that you mentioned, that's 15 local volunteers who basically they're not the Pungsatani Ground Hog Club, they're like the upper echelon, the leaders of the Pungsatani Groundhog Club, it sounds like, and only a couple of them are allowed to handle Phil. And the President is the only one who actually can communicate with Phil as we'll see. Yeah, and we'll talk about the movie in a bit, but if you've seen the movie, you've seen those tuxedos and top hats or if you got the day off of work. Anyway, if you tune in to watch the coverage, you're going to see those tuxedos and top hats because they say, hey, Phil's, the VIP. When VIPs came to town back in the day, this is what we'd wear when we met him at the train. And he is our most famous resident, so we are going to pay him that respect. Well, the other thing that I saw, the other explanation, that explanation actually came from one of the former Inner Circle members. But another explanation is that some of those early, like, 19th century depictions of Brayer Groundhog was in a top hat. Like, he was supposed to be this very intelligent forecaster of weather, so they would depict him in, like, a top hat. And I think that's probably likelier, where it came from and they just forgot somewhere along the way. Well, Phil does a lot of sleeping. He does not hibernate, though, because, like I said, he's in his climate controlled burrow. He doesn't have these cues from nature to let him know when anything is at all. As far as he knows, it's always perfect weather, except every February when he gets yanked out of there, taken out in the cold in the middle of the night to his other, thankfully, climate controlled borough that is built into a stump. If you've never seen it, you can just Google an image of this kind of nice scene. It's got a stage there and a stump, and it looks like something you'd see, like a show at Six Flags or something. That's exactly right. The Country Bears jamboree or something. Totally, yeah. That's great. I couldn't quite put my finger on what it looked like, but that is exactly what I was thinking of and couldn't find it. So it's a bit of a rude awakening. Like you said, it's the middle of the night for Phil, but they give him some time to kind of relax and get settled into his stump, his Showtime stump, I guess, is what you call it. Sure. But I can't imagine that he's, like, getting a lot of relaxation because just outside of that stump is anywhere from I've seen 8000, up to 200 people all hanging out on gobbler's Knob. And this is in a town of about 5000 people. So the population might be quadrupled depending on whether Groundhog Day, say, falls on a weekend. And they are so loud, it's a rowdy, boisterous crowd. They shoot off fireworks. They have live music all throughout the night. This is all leading up to dawn, basically from about 03:00 A.m. To about 06:30 A.m.. They just are partying right outside of Phil stump. I wonder if there's a drink, like a signature drink. Yes, I saw there's a groundhog punch that has to do with vodka and a bunch of other stuff. But I also have a distinct impression that this might be, if not dry, at least way more family friendly than everybody wasted on punch kind of thing. No, that's true. You don't want it to be like well, like the Kentucky Derby, dude. Man, things get dark there real quick. You've been to one of those right now? Yeah. And it got dark there real quick. Man, that was like the second the race is over. Yeah, even no, before, during, after, it's just utter chaos. You may and I were like, we didn't leave, we fled. But no, I get the impression that this is a lot more clean cut than the Kentucky Derby. I feel. When I saw fireworks, I just felt bad for Phil. He must have been scared. For sure. And I'm sure all the dogs in the area are like, I hate Groundhog Day. And neighbors that aren't really big on Groundhog Day are probably not very happy. Airbnb replace is what you do. I would guess so. Because, again, 5000 people live in town, 20,000 additional people show up. And hopefully, if you own a business, you've listened to Chuck and your business is open that day. So you mentioned the president is the only one who can speak to Phil or understand Phil. When Phil emerges from that borough, he does speak groundhog ease is what they call it. And the president is the only person, even in that inner circle that can understand and translate for the people. And Phil is kind of a rapper, isn't that right? I think that's being rather generous, but yes. He speaks in rhyme. Kind of a sing song rhyme. Yeah. Well, it looks like a rap to me on this Groundhog Day, I'm happy to say I love Fruity Pebbles in a major way. Was that a commercial? Yes, it was. Ironically. Well, I guess the opposite of ironically expectedly a Fruity Pebbles commercial. He speaks in singsong, the president translates for everyone. They all have a good time. And keep in mind, this is at dawn, so I imagine the whole affair is over pretty quickly. Yeah, they got to be so tired too. But everybody gets powered up by some vodka based groundhog punch. Sure. They're like, Why are we drunk at eight to 16? Right. I think that's kind of the case, at least for some people. But that's the whole shebang. They've kind of stretched it out for a week. I've seen that the whole festivities kind of take place over the week, but it seems like February 2 is kind of a big day, february 1 2nd. So is he accurate, though? That's the question. The answer to that question is no, not at all. Because it's unscientific. Well, yeah, it's definitely unscientific. But somehow Phil is even worse than Chance at predicting the weather. Now, the Groundhog Club says he's correct 100% of the time. That's the whole tongue in cheek thing. And then some people like to try to prove them right and say, well, yes, in some parts of the country he's right, and other parts he's not. But for the punk Satani area or western Pennsylvania, he hits between 30 and 40% on any given ten year stretch. 40% between 2010 and 2019, 30% between 2001 and 2010. So that's not very good. I mean, like, if you just toss a coin, you could expect to come up heads or tails better than that. And that's basically what they're doing. And we should say, in Phil's defense, he's not predicting anything. This is all the very insane inner circle who are making these predictions. So they're technically the ones who are worse than Chance at predicting whether there's going to be six more weeks of winter or in early spring. Yes. So she didn't want to be there in the first place. That's right. I saw footage of one in 1997 where he bit the handler's finger and only got some of the glove, but it looked like it would have been pretty vicious had he gotten any of his actual finger. It was hilarious. The crown went wild. They loved it. He literally bit the hand that feeds it. Yeah, I guess so. He's like, Give me some more ice cream. So should we talk about the movie? We can't not talk about the movie. I didn't think we would talk about the movie. Groundhog Day movie, which I have covered on movie crush. This was the favorite movie of Griffin McElroy, of the famous McEroy Brothers podcasting. I saw that. I thought it was Justin McElroy. Was it Griffin? No, Justin. He was on two, though. He did with Nail and I. Another great movie. Okay. And Griffin picked Groundhog Day, and he says Griffin's quote was, not only do I think it's my favorite movie, he said, I think it's the best movie. Like, literally the best movie. He had some groundhog punch himself. He loves it, and I love it. It doesn't age super well. It's a little problematic. He's just a little aggressive. He doesn't take no for an answer over and over again, and that's the point of the movie. But watching it through today's lens is sort of like, you back off, dude. He's not interested. Right? Yeah, I get you. For those of you who haven't seen it, first of all, go see it. But then, secondly, it's about this reporter who gets stuck in this time loop where he's living. February 2, Groundhog Day in Punk's attorney over and over again. His name is Phil. And it had such a huge impact. Yeah. And they never explained why this happens. It just happens to him, which I think is something that makes the movie that much more enjoyable. But this movie has such an impact on the culture that today people associate Groundhog Day not just with predicting whether there's going to be an early spring or more winter. They predict it with weird things like losing track of time or time, doing odd things or having deja vu. And that's strictly from the movie. Like, that was never a part of Groundhog Day until this 1993 movie came along. Yeah, I mean, people will say that if something happened again to you or whatever, you say, oh, man, it's like Groundhog Day. And it's pretty rare for a movie to enter the sort of public consciousness to that degree. And also, it's interesting and displace something that's already taking that spot, even. You know what I'm saying? Or add to it, at least. Yeah, for sure. When I was doing research for the Movie Crush episode, I did see that thing that you included here. That the original screenwriter and eventual co writer to Harold Ramis, Danny Reuben, the original script, it was 10,000 years that he was living because of the Buddhist principle that it takes 10,000 years for a human soul to be perfect. And they change that up in the movie. And there is a lot of robust debate about how many days occur in the movie, supposedly. And I looked this up in a bunch of different places. If you just look at the movie, the number of times it repeats is 38. Okay, I saw 23. But if there are people who have taken time to calculate how long it really is because he learns foreign languages, he becomes a master piano player, and people have taken great lengths to actually calculate how long it would take to do all this. There are some exact days that people have calculated, but everyone has sort of landed in the neighborhood of about ten years, including Harold Ramis saying, yeah, we feel like it's about ten years that he's relived in order to learn all this stuff. I think 10,000 more. I'm going with Danny Reuben's estimate. Well, if it was 10,000 years, he would just be like in The Matrix at the end or something. Well, at some point he says, I'm a god. Yeah, that's true. Maybe it still isn't there, but yeah. One of the things about that movie, too, Chuck, is it's part of the festivities now. They show it the night before at the local theater. And it's been a boon for the town as well. Not just Groundhog Day, but the movie itself has drawn people to the town to kind of see Punks Attorney, and they're usually very disappointed to find out that they didn't actually shoot the town in Punks Attorney. They shot it in Woodstock, Illinois. So while they named the businesses and took cop cars from Punks of Tawny and moved a lot of Punks of Woodstock, you can't visually see, like, oh, this is where Ned Ryerson crosses the street to say hi downtown, like that's in Woodstock, Illinois. So I think they don't tell people that until after they've made their way to Pungsitani and spend at least $50. Then they tell them, okay, this Woodstock, Illinois that you're really after yeah, I mean, what do you think? Do you want to go to Punk Titanium and kind of be at the real place, or do you want to go to Illinois to kind of see these real movie locations? I would like to go to neither of those places. I'm good with old clips on YouTube. That's fine with me. It's never struck me as, like, a great holiday, I think. Not because of Groundhog Day or the fact that it's in Western Pennsylvania or anything like that, but because February 2 is just such a sucky time of the year. I hate that time of the year. Nothing really good can happen around then. So the beginning of February always thinks, which is ironic because my wedding anniversary is in mid February. That, to me, is when things pick up. Yeah, I pulled that out at the end, didn't I? You did. I forgot you got married in Warm Climb. Yeah, we escaped to Hawaii because February is kind of gross in the United States. Yeah. My anniversary is sometime in late April. I can never remember the day. 20 something. Well, hey, just start saying after this. We'll just say all the different numbers. We'll find out the right one, and then Jerry can edit it in. All right. You got anything else? I got nothing else. Well, if you want to know more about Groundhog Day, just go online. I think this year it's 100% streaming. Because of Kova. They're not having people out, but they are streaming it. So you can go check out the Punks of Tiny Groundhog Club's website for all the links and everything. And since I directed everyone to the Punkstawni Groundhog Club's website, as per usual, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this hot off the presses. This came in 30 seconds ago. Oh, boy. And I didn't have one prepared. And this is a good one. Hey, guys. Hope you're doing well. Josh, Chuck and Jerry over there. My name is Mike Martin. He him his. Thank you for that, Mike. I'm a classical musician, a bassist in the New World Symphony in Miami Beach, Florida. Been an avid listener for six years. My sister Jessica got me hooked on your show after we were traveling to see our family got stuck behind an oil tanker. The truck pulled to a stop on a quiet stretch of highway rural in the middle of the night when the driver put on the hazards, jumped out of the vehicle. Confused, we attempted to go around when the hood of the truck burst into flames. Well, after backing away to a safe distance, my sister laughed side, pulled out her phone and said, looks like we're not going anywhere. Have you heard of stuff you should know? No. Since then, I've listened to your entire catalog five times. Wow, Mike, that's amazing. So, this is a long email, but I'm going to get to the crux of it here. It was about the clan episode and his experience as a black man. He said, I really appreciate your recent episode on the KKK, especially what Chuck mentioned about feeling a need to do a comprehensive dive on the clan because of the terror and harm they visited on black Americans like myself. 26 years old. And even when I was a young child in the 90s, there were cross burnings near my home in semi rural Pennsylvania. We moved a few towns over not long afterwards. But all my life as a black child living in the Northeast, I live with explicitly racist iconography on walks with friends in the woods, we'd find swastikas and racist screed spray painted on abandoned railroad buildings. It was not uncommon to see Confederate flags on people's homes and cars. Even in school, I'd find nuisance tied on the pull cords of blinds. I even remember the first time I was called the N word in a school bathroom in the first grade and the principal's response to my parents in his office. We can't help what people teach their kids at home, man. The way I was treated improved as I got older, but it prompted me to start thinking about how the more insidious and subtle elements of racism impact my life and those of others from a very young age. And then Mike went on to give a lot of great recommendations for episodes he thinks we should do, and he says, Stay safe and be well. And that is from Mike Martin, the bass player. Nice, Mike. Thanks a lot for writing, and I'm sorry all that could happen to you. Yeah, and yeah, thanks for the ideas. Give me an idea that he gave us for an episode. He said jazz, because he said it's a lot of different things that we've talked about kind of coming together in a musical movement. So that's one that we've talked about, it's just like Ken Burns did. However many hours on jazz. How do we do 45 minutes on jazz? Whatever. We did a two parter on Evil Knievil. We can do anything. Bibda. You just do that the whole time. All right. Maybe we shouldn't do one on jazz now. I think about it. Sorry, Mike. Well, if you want to get in touch with us like Mike did and share the horrors of your childhood. We want to hear that in a weird way, and also to share with the rest of you so we can all feel like a Stuff You Should Know family even more than we did before. And you can wrap it up, spank it on the bottom gently, and send it off to Stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is the production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows." | |
c3003c0c-5460-11e8-b38c-bb451c4b2e4d | SYSK Selects: How Coral Reefs Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/sysk-selects-how-coral-reefs-work | Coral reefs are the largest organic structures on Earth, yet they're created through a symbiotic relationship between creatures about 3 millimeters long. Learn more about the the world's coral reefs (and how to protect them) in this episode. | Coral reefs are the largest organic structures on Earth, yet they're created through a symbiotic relationship between creatures about 3 millimeters long. Learn more about the the world's coral reefs (and how to protect them) in this episode. | Sat, 09 Feb 2019 10:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2019, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=9, tm_hour=10, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=40, tm_isdst=0) | 34195834 | audio/mpeg | "Hey there, everybody. It's me, Josh. And for this week's SYSK Selects, I've chosen how coral reefs work from 2012, I think March of 2012. And it's a good one. It's got a lot of science. There's a lot of interesting marine biology to learn. And plus, it's just good to get to know this very rare form of life that we are very rapidly erasing from the global biosphere. So I hope you enjoy this very eyeopening episode on coral reefs. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me, as always, it's Charles, Debbie, Chuck Bryant, and that makes this stuff you should miss, though. I just noticed your cold is cleared up. Yeah, a little bit. I still have an interior lining, a very thick all right, slam. Other than that, I'm fine. Yeah, you sound fine, though. That's all I care about. You know what it was tons of emergency used to wash down tons of vitamin B stress, which is like tons of just different vitamin B's. I eat solar ray scotch, right? Single malt scotch. Just my secret ingredient. And lots of licine. Couple of license every time. Like thousands and thousands of percentages of daily value. It just makes the FDA cringe that I take as much. That's what I do. I just load up on everything. Triple it. Yeah. There you go. Take that body. So I'm fine. Good. Now Yummy has it. Oh, does she? Poor thing. Same exact thing. And she doesn't like when I tell her to take vitamins. Yeah, but you live together. You drink after one another. You suck face. I'll leave, like, emergency here. They're like, laying around. Oh, did I leave that oops, that's already dissolved in the water even? And it's going down your gullet. Chuck? Yes. Did you know that I am a certified scuba diver? I sure did. Oh, yeah, you did. I thought for sure you're going to be like, no, I didn't. No, we've talked about this. Yeah. We've even scuba dived together, haven't we? That's right. That was the first time I heard about it. I'm not the sharpest tack in the package. That's all right. But I say that to tell you that I was certified at a place called Islamoharis off the coast of Cozumel, which just so happens to also be the home of the second largest barrier reef. Oh, really? Known to man. What's it called? Known to humans? I don't know. It's not called anything because there's the Great Barrier Reef and then there's all the other all the other ones. But this is the second largest, which is pretty big because there's a lot of barrier reefs. There's a lot of coral reefs in the world. But after reading this article, I found that there is a lot about coral reefs that I didn't know. Fortunately, we had Jennifer Horton, who I'm sure you'll remember, worked at the site for a while. Yeah, she's a great writer. Great writer. We had her to explain it to us. And I get coral reefs now. In fact, Jennifer has written many of the animal related podcasts that we've done. Octopi, bison, I think maybe that one. She wrote a lot of the animal stuff. Animal migration. Yeah, lots of good ones. I miss you, Jennifer. Hope you're well. If you listen. I wonder, who are they? Right. I remember those guys. I hated those two. All right. Cores. This was all new to me. The rainforest of the sea, of the Equatorial Seas, home to about 25% of all fish species. Yeah. That's crazy. In fact, right. The Great Barrier Reef has more kinds of coral on, like, one just single little outcropping of it then you'll find in the entire tropical area of the Atlantic Ocean. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. I don't know why I just said that. There the Aussies. They're going to be so stoked with this podcast. Probably anytime they can, like, claim to something like that, they're just like, yeah, drink. Exactly. You're going to go pour beer on the Great Barrier Reef. The coral reefs are very beneficial to humans in a number of ways. Yeah. Economically. Sure. Because there's a lot of sea life, and thus people fishing for shrimp and lobster and things like that. Right. In all sorts of weird ways. Which we'll get to later. Yeah. They also protect the beach from erosion. They act as natural buffers from huge waves. Wave action. That's right. These little tiny guys. Yeah. Well, let's talk about that, because when you think of coral, you think of huge Great Barrier Reef. It's enormous. I think there's 18,000 miles total of coral face. Wow. Face. That is crazy. On the Great Barrier Reef, actually, an individual coral called a polyp is about 3 mm long. Yes. That's small. Super tiny. For those of you in America. Well, science got it wrong early on. We should go ahead and say that they at one point, fairly understandably thought that it might be plant life. Right. Because it sort of looks like it. Yeah. Like a coral fan. Yeah. That's a bunch of those little three millimeter corals building up into a fan. Yeah. It looks like a plant. So they got it wrong and they're actually not only are they real, living little sea creatures, but they're carnivores. Yeah. Which is you would never think about that. No. But they're in the Phylum Cindaria, Nigeria. Why would they put the C there? It's silent, man. I appreciate a silent letter. I am smarter than my pronunciations would suggest. I started looking this up because I feel like an idiot a lot of times. So they're in the file of nigaria, which means that they have barbed stinging cells called nematocysts. That's right. So they use this to capture their prey, but the prey kind of has to come to them because they're also sessile, which means they're fixed to a certain spot. Yeah. Cecil seriously? Yeah. So it is understandable also that they got it wrong, because coral has a unique property. It is almost half plant because there's this algae in the cells. I want to pronounce it. Okay, go ahead. It's called zooxanthaly. You're right. Very nice. Starts with a Z, and there's an X in there somewhere. Yeah. And then it ends in ae. So what happens with there's a very mutually beneficial relationship between the algae and the polyp. They do a little exchange. The polyp itself will supply I'm sorry, the algae will undertake photosynthesis. Yes. As algae tends to do. As algae will do. And it will say, hey, Mr. Polyp, why don't you take all this stuff that I've made within your cell walls and convert it to proteins and fats? It poops out, like amino acids and carbs for the polyp. And in return, why don't you give me a nice shelter? And you can also produce some carbon and nitrates and phosphates that I need to produce the photosynthesis to give you the proteins and fats that you need. It's what you might call a symbiotic relationship. Exactly. One is helping the other. And you can make the case that the coral is getting the better end of the deal, because coral gets about 90% of the energy produced through photosynthesis by the zooxanthylee. Right? Yeah. But that also makes the coral more dependent on the zoosanthaly. True. And the zooxanthylene is an algae of very little needs. It's not needy, it's not grabby, it's not going to call you up every Friday night wondering what you're doing, why you weren't here. Are you talking about me? No. Jerry likes that one. So the symbiotic relationship between the zoo's anthem and the coral polyps also produce coral reefs. The polyps use some of that energy, some of that amino acid to create something called calcium carbonate. And that's the hard stuff. Right. That's limestone, my friend. Boom. Yeah. They produce limestone out of their buttocks to create a cup, a little shelter for the polyp to stay in. And since the algae stays in the polyp, it creates a shelter for both. Right? Yeah. And this limestone secretion can keep building and building and building, because, again, coral stays in the same place there's. Cecil that's right. And as long as they're still secreting limestone, the limestone structure they build will just keep getting bigger and bigger. Eventually. Love it. That's just one three millimeter long coral. Yes. What you want to do is get thousands together, strengthen numbers. Yeah. Then you have a coral fan. Yeah. Or a colony. Yes. And then those colonies will eventually meet up with other colonies and say, hey, you guys interested in forming a wreath? Because we're pretty indestructible. Although that's not quite true. We're more indestructible if we all hook up. My brothers, like you said, strengthen numbers. Yes. And when they hook up, their limestone secretions can start to join together, forming a reef, but they're also connected by a thin piece of tissue. You got this one called a cena SARC. That's what I was going to go for. I was just tired of humiliating myself for this episode. I would have called it a kona sark, so I was way off. I'm really glad. Steelacanth. Yeah, it's a cena SARC. And that's how the coral themselves are through limestone secretions and through this tissue called the cena SARC. They're connected. Right. But how would they grow? Well, there's two ways, man. Okay. They can reproduce. Yes. A couple of ways, though. Right. Asexually or asexually. And then which one? I choose which one? Asexual. Yeah, because you're cloning. That's pretty remarkable. Yeah. Anyone can just get together and, you know, mate. Right. Sexually, it's like, here's some sperm, and another one is like, here's some eggs. And then they get together and then there's not much to it. Right. Asexually though they actually do divide and produce identical clones of themselves. And that's one way they can grow. And the other way is just to keep pooping out limestone. And that will connect with each other and it just forms a big old yummy wreath. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office, then? You could be using Stampscom. Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses. Because Stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and Ups shipping services you need, right. From your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS. Rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale. No longterm commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. This is not a fast process, though. Like if there's a couple of coral that are a few inches away, say three inches away, and they're like, I would like to hook my cena SARC up to your cena sark and let's poop some limestone out together and get this reef going. That's beautiful. It's going to take them about a year to get together. Can you imagine how frustrating that is, to be three inches away and be like, I'd really like to consummate this. Right. I'll see you next June. I'm not convinced that coral can experience frustration. You don't think so? I think that's all they experience nothing but frustration. Either they're like, really patient, but that three inches of growth a year has to take place under very specific conditions. Remember we said that coral reefs are in equatorial waters, not the coral themselves, but the zoo's anthemole are actually very fickle and picky little organisms, and they like specific conditions. And as long as the conditions are right for them, then the coral can grow, because, remember, the corals are dependent on the zanthele. That's right. To produce the calcium carbonate. That's right. So what are the conditions? Chuckles well, you said equatorial, specifically, 30 degrees north or south. If you have ever dived in the Bahamas and said, no, that's 32 degrees north. Right. And they have plenty there. It's because the warm Gulf waters spitting out toward the Bahamas, which is one reason the Bahamas is such a popular spot, I would imagine. Yes. I've never been there, you know, my folks drove my car back from the Bahamas, though. Once you had a car in the Bahamas, you're supposed to say, you're kidding. You're kidding. I must be. The Bahamas or island. It's a dead milkman song. Bitch and Camaro. Oh, that's from Bitch and Camaro. Yeah, it's the beginning. Jeez, I'm a dummy. It's all right, Chuck. I'm not hip. I'm not hip either. Chuck sunlight is another thing that they need, because it makes sense if you're going to undertake photosynthesis, you need sun. So if the water is rich in nutrients, believe it or not, that's not great for them. No. Because if you've ever looked through, if you've ever been underwater and seen, like, a lot of plankton everywhere, it filters the sunlight. It's dappled. That's right. And also, as we learn later, the more nutrients there are, the more it will attract competition for those nutrients. And that's not good for them either. No, they don't like competition. Basically, they're just little prima donnas. The water, since you're near the equator, should be between 73.4 and 84.2 degrees Fahrenheit. Yes. And ultimately, if you put all these factors together, ample, light, clear water and between 73 and 82 or 23 Celsius and 29 Celsius yeah. You can get up to about 10 inches of growth in a year. Twice as much on sunny days. Yeah. Which is remarkable. But they're still not going to exceed that 3.9 inches, most likely. No, because it's not going to be sunny all the time. But what's cool then is if you think, well, that's crazy. There's some coral that I've seen coral reefs, and they're big, and it takes a year to grow about 3.9 inches, say horizontally or vertically, maybe even diagonally. If it was, like a crazy year for them, sure. It must take thousands of years for coral reefs to build up. You would be right, my friend. Which is why scientists very affectionately consider coral reefs the old growth forests of the sea. Yes. Because when you're looking at coral reef, you're looking at something thousands, if not tens of thousands, of years old. My question is, how long does the coral live? So one thing I didn't get out of this article, did you? Oh. How each individual coral, each polyp? Right? Well, I don't know. And are there cups, the protective cups that they secrete? Are they inhabited by successive generations? They're clones? Maybe. My guess, and I'm guessing here, is that there are so many hundreds of thousands and millions of these packed so tightly together that if one of the little guys dies, it ain't no big thing because he's surrounded by his living brothers and sisters. Got you. But I don't know how long each one lives. That's a good question. Someone will know. Yeah. Coral sand. If you look at the reef and you think, hey, coral is obviously the skeleton here of this great reef. It's not just the coral. Coral sand, from what I understand, is little remnants, tiny pieces of coral that are either eaten and pooped out or just chipped away because of erosion and waves crashing and bad weather and stuff like that. Right. Is that right? Yeah. But the cool thing is it doesn't necessarily go anywhere. It can fill in gaps or holes, and then, as luck would have it, there is a type of algae called coralline algae that goes and covers it up, and the structure of the algae acts as, like, an adhesive that glues the coral sand. So basically, it's like this self sustaining repair process that's always going on. The waves erode the coral and the coral sand. Certain types of fish to the coral and the coral sand, the sand goes in, just drifts into, like, little pockets where it gets caught, and the algae lays over it. Bam. Strong coral. Well, in coral sand is mine, which is one of the threats to reefs, because they use it for bricks and cement and road fill. So if you're mining the coral sand, there's not going to be that natural spackle to fill in the holes. And thus the reef is jeopardized, which is just one of many ways that reefs are in jeopardy. Apparently. One estimate is that 40% of the world's reach could be gone in the next few decades. It's scary. Very sad. I hope you're scared. I'm scared. This is where I got a little confused, was, well, let's talk about the kinds of reefs, because I'm not confused about that. Okay. There are basically three categories depending where they form the fringing reef. It's the most common. It's directly from the shore, and they form a border projecting out to the sea. Yeah. It's kind of like if you go to, like, Marblehead in Ohio, there's a lighthouse. I think it's limestone. It just comes right off of the land. Right. I don't understand how that would be, because it's in Lake Erie, which is not freshwater, but who knows? It's very similar to that. It's like just a rocky projection jutting out from the land. But it's a coral reef. Right. Or if it were a coral reef, that's a Fringing reef. Interesting. Reef attached to land. Barrier Reef. Very similar to the Fringing reef, but it has a gap of water between the land and the reef. Is that correct? Yes. And then my favorite, of course, the atoll. It's a nice one, which is when at one point there was an island or volcano and it sunk. But you still have the circular reef with, I guess, like a lagoon or something. Yeah. The reef keeps building, but the mountain is now submerged. Pretty cool. Yeah. So you got your three types fringing, Barrier, and atoll. Right. The zones is where I get a little confused. So all these reefs are kind of broken down into zones. Like, you remember the biospherelogy. How could I forget? Okay, so you've got, like, the different zones of the cave, which is very similar to that. You've got the back of the reef, and the back is the side closest to shore. I think that's what confused me. Yeah, it's a little confusing, but it's from the viewpoint of the C. That's right. So you've got just imagine, like, a line and then a bump and then another line, and that's our reef. Right. Okay. On the shore side of the bump, that's the back of the roof. And this is actually where most life is. The flat zone. Yeah. Sometimes it's left high and drive by low tide, but most times it's just this little shallow area that's got tons of sunlight. So there's tons of plankton, which means there's tons of fish. There's a feeding frenzy, there are diurnal, temperature changes. It's just very pretty. It's what most people think of when they think about diving on a coral reef. Okay. Right. Close. Safe. Then that bump, that's the ridge or the crest. Okay. Okay. That part. The crest is always exposed at low tide, and it may be exposed even at high tide sometimes, depending on how big, but it's the tallest point. It also serves as the wave break for that function of reefs that protect the land. Okay, sure. This is what the wave smack into. So it's going to be more easily eroded and probably have more of that natural spackle, right? Yes, that was it. Coralline algae, probably. Is that what's called coraline? Yeah. Okay. Or coraline, however you want to say it. Chuck, I'm not going to stress you out. All right. And then there's the four reef. That's the ocean side, the seaside. Right. And in that part of the four refund, the other side of the crest, the sea side of the crest, there's the Buttress zone, which is awesome if you ask me. And that's where you're going to find if you're shark hunting, that's where you're going to find, like, sharks and barracuda and interesting things like that. Right. But does it buttress? Is that why they call it the Buttress stone? So the Buttress consider buttress is just like a jutting projection of coral limestone, right. Just jutting out. And then in between these projections are little channels, holes that can go all the way through. Right. I'm not quite sure what the physics are of it, but basically, once a wave goes through this coral reef and hits shore and then gets drawn back out to sea, these channels funnel these spent waves back out to sea. And by funneling them, it gives them more energy. Right. So then they crash into oncoming waves, which reduces the oncoming waves velocity. So all this is in an attempt naturally to combat the erosion of pounding waves? Yes. Awesome. Yeah, it's pretty cool. And it's also a really excellent shelter for little fishies and things like that. They want to go into the channel. So, Josh, we've talked about the Great barrier reef here and there, but we should give it its proper due as the largest living structure on the planet, seen from outer space. Everyone loves to throw that back around. Yeah, you can see it from outer space. And that made me look something up. Chuck, it's the largest living structure. Okay, so coral reef is an organism. Do you know what the second largest living organism is? It's a fungus in Oregon named amarillo oystere. 8600 years old. Takes up 4 sq mi or 10 km\u00b2. Single organism. Where is it? Oregon. Oh, Oregon. Yeah. Wow. It's at our friend Van Nostrins house. So it's a big mushroom. Yeah. Interesting. Isn't that gross? That is gross. So the Great barrier Reef, we're talking 1420, 9 miles or 2300 clicks, and it is not a single reef. It's about 3000. I got 2900. I'm not sure if that number had declined since this was written or not, but Jennifer points out, and as you pointed out earlier, the full edge of the reef is about 18 and a half thousand miles. So she says, if anyone has ever told you they've died, the entire Great barrier reef, they're dirty liars. Yeah, she said, they're lying because there's no way you couldn't do it in a lifetime, she said. Yeah. I wonder if somebody told her that and she, like, inserted it in the article. I don't know. It's definitely an accusation. It is. It's a weird thing. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office when you could be using stamps.com? Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses. Because stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and ups shipping services you need right. From your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts. You can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS rates and 86% off Ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts, just go to stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. It's one of the seven natural wonders of the world. More than 400 coral species, 2000 fish species, 4000 molluscs and six of the seven sea turtle species. All right there for the Ogling. Nice. And the Ugling. Like you said, the Australians are going to be proud of this and they should be. Of course, back in 1975, apparently, it was in some jeopardy and the Australians moved to protect it as a national marine park and that basically ensured its survival. True, it's still kind of in rough shape here there, as I understand, but six years after that so, let's see, that's 1081, it became a World Heritage Site, and 1% of the 18 and a half thousand square miles, or 18,000 linear miles, are open to the public, except for that 1%. So just 1% is dedicated to research. Only just research. That's pretty cool. Yeah, not very much. That's all they need bona fide scientists to dive that part. The rest of it, Jennifer points out, is divided into national park zones, which is where you can go recreate and learn some things. Yeah. And then the rest of it is general use, which means commercial fishing, which I guess there's no better time to get into the threats than right now. Yes, there are some coral reefs and trouble. The Great Barrier Reef. Like I said, it's pretty well protected. But say if you look at some of the reefs in the Philippines, 70% have been destroyed and just 5% are in good condition these days. 10% of the world's reefs are now beyond recovery. Not just because of human causes, because of the natural causes as well. Sure, because everything exists on a life cycle here on Earth, we humans just tend to accelerate it. 30% may die in the next ten to 20 years. So some of the natural threats are obviously harsh weather, like hurricanes. El Nino a weird weather pattern. It's going to increase temperatures, mess with the salinity, a lot more rainfall. So an El Nino season can do some serious damage. Coral Bleaching when they experience as little as, like, one degree rise in temperature, the algae will be ejected, basically from the coral? No, the algae takes off. Oh, it leaves. Yeah, it's like sea and hell coral. There's a fine line between ejection and self, leaving it's a chicken and egg thing, maybe. Yeah. So the algae gets the heck out of Dodge, turns the coral white, and if you Google pictures, you can see a lovely coral with, like, white patches here and there. That's the parts where it's bleached out. If this keeps up long enough, the coral dies. Because, again, coral has a symbiotic relationship where it's dependent on the zanthanyese algae, and if the z Anthemes leaves, then the coral dies. Very sad. And like you said, it was just as much as a one degree temperature increase, right? Yeah, that's not much. There's also predators, like there's things that eat the coral, the polyps themselves, crabs, worms, snails, barnacles parrot, fish. Yeah, those are really pretty. Can't do anything about that, pal. That's nature at work. Yeah, but there are things we can do, such as not using dynamite when we fish on coral reefs. That's a pretty good start. Yeah, I would say so. There's 40 countries in the world, over 40 countries in the world that allow blast fishing. People using explosives that they drop onto the reef to stun the fish so they can just swoop them up with the net and basically gaffa like a slack jaw Yoko wearing nothing but overalls, while they just bring their nets in. They just threw dynamite in the water to stun fish. Well, the dynamite also has a deleterious impact on the reef structure as well. You're going to go to the grave with that one, aren't you? I saw on Facebook you put the apostrophe in you all after the a again, I mix it up. You know what's weird is the iPhone corrects it incorrectly. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, they don't know y'all, they're from California. I've always done yeppostrophe. A-L-L that's correct, you all? No. See, someone pointed out to me on email that it was in fact, Yaapostrophe ll. No, it's you all. So I've been doing it right the whole time. No, you were doing it yaoshape ll. Because someone told me to change it. No, you can't just listen to any know who email. Our fans have a deleterious effect on me. Delete. Do you want to look it up right now? Let's talk about blast fishing again. Okay. Or cyanide fishing, which is the ugly stepsister of blast fishing, which is dumping cyanide onto reefs. To kill fish. Again, you have to wear nothing. But overalls, no shoes, nothing. No service overfishing period has got a negative effect, obviously. Yeah. Because you're basically affecting the food chain. You're like, oh, we like these guys because they're tasty and I'm sure they won't be missed. Whenever you take any key species out of an ecosystem, you're in trouble. Oh, good. There's also runoff is a big one, because remember, they like clear light, the algae do. Or clear water. And when the water's not clear, they shrivel up because they need sunlight for photosynthesis. Yeah, the pollutants went also I thought it was going to be pollutants because just pollutants are bad, which they are. But really the reason is pollutants and sewage actually increase the nutrients, so that attracts harmful algae and competition, and that's. No good. Right. And then we already talked about the mining. So what can we do, Chuck? We've got a few things we can do. You can adopt a reef. You can tons of organizations will let you do that. In fact, if you want to go to adopt nature.org coral reef, you can adopt a reef in the Bahamas, Dominican Republic, Powao, and Papua New Guinea. Nice. Just like that. Yes. You can funnel money to an organization that will take care of that reef. Exactly. And that's just one. I think you can do it through all kinds of places. Didn't you say that? Yes. You can get your congressperson to lobby for stricter oversight of fishing methods. You can boycott products from countries that allow blast fishing or cyanide fishing. Really put the squeeze on the common veteran in the other country. Make him go to his you cannot chip off bits of the coral when you scuba dive because it's just so pretty that you want to take it home. Yes. That's a big one. Give it to your daughter. Yeah. Not good. There's a lot of stuff you can do that you probably should do if you want to save the coral reef. That's right. Nothing else. Why would you save them if you don't care about snorkeling or anything like that? Well, my friend, if you care about the economy, you will want to save core reefs because they are valuable. The total value of the asset that is the reef systems in Florida, in Florida alone, just Florida, $8.5 billion. When you take into account not just tourism, which is a big part of it, but also the estimated 177,000 jobs that all the industries surrounding it create, wow. That's just Florida worldwide. Just from tourism and recreation. Just tourism and recreation that reefs bring in $9.6 billion annually. So if you like money, then you should support coral reefs. 12% to 15% of Bolivia's GDP is created by reefs. Wow. Isn't it crazy? That is crazy. Yeah. So if you don't have a heart but money makes you like e, then that should get you going on saving coral reefs as well. That's right. So if you want to learn more about coral reefs, including seeing a diagram of where the forward and the back of the reef is, you can type in coral reefs in the search bar at.com it'll. Bring up this great article by Jennifer Horton. And since I said Jennifer Horton, it's time now for listener mail. All right, listener mail. Okay. All right. I'm going to call this good cause from a good person. Hello s y SK team. I wanted to take a minute and thank you for helping me in a really big way. I've been working alone as a volunteer in Malawi, south of Tanzania, Malawi, since September of 2009. And I happily passed the time listening to your show during my super long super awesome minibus rides. I am building a library in a small village, and a big part of my library is an audio video collection that I've been putting together for the past few years. Many of the people in the village are illiterate, so a library full of books just wouldn't do them any good. So I started to think of ways I could include everyone in a learning activity. My answer was to incorporate documentaries and podcasts on a variety of subjects. So basically, we will choose a topic for the week and use the podcast as a way of getting people interested, then direct them to read articles and books on the topic or watch documentaries and have some group discussions. Well, pretty cool. I really believe in the beauty of being inquisitive and interested in life, and videos and podcasts really help immerse people in new subjects. This is the first library of its kind in the country. Wow. And I'm really hopeful that it helps to open the world up to people who are so often cut off. Fingers crossed. And that is from Diane Bowles, the founder of the Future Found. And if you want to check out Diane's awesome work she's doing, you can go to thefuturefound.org excellent Chuck. Very cool. It's Diane. Diane in Malawi. Yes. Building the only library of its kind. It's so cool. Thank you very much, Diane, for doing that. What do you want to hear? You want to hear of other people making a difference in the world? We always love that you're a staff for that kind of thing. Or some good harrowing scuba diving stories, one or the other. Okay, so that's a great one. Chuck either doing good in the world or not doing anything whatsoever, right? That could be directed to Chuck and I via Twitter at Syskpodcast. That's our Twitter handle on facebookcom. If you go to stuff, you should know. Page. That's that. And you can also email us directly. We both get emails sent to the address stuffpodcast@howstuffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetepworks.com. To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of our home page. The House of Forks iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on itunes. Hey everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer school's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime four days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon Music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, My Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening all your favorite true crime podcast. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today." | |
c4061bc6-5460-11e8-b38c-ef2fdcf4a5f8 | SYSK Selects: How Cult Deprogramming Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/sysk-selects-how-cult-deprogramming-works | The fear of cults in the 1970s drove Americans to look the other way on kidnappings, abuse and torture of cult members by deprogrammers – but did it even work? Find out in this classic episode. | The fear of cults in the 1970s drove Americans to look the other way on kidnappings, abuse and torture of cult members by deprogrammers – but did it even work? Find out in this classic episode. | Sat, 22 Feb 2020 10:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2020, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=22, tm_hour=10, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=53, tm_isdst=0) | 36747483 | audio/mpeg | "Good morning. Stuff you should know. Listeners. This is one of your faithful co leaders, Charles W. Chuck Bryant, here to tell you about cult deprogramming. This is my Saturday Select pick for the week. It's from September 22. Know that Josh and I love to talk about cults really fascinate us, but here's the flip side. Cult deprogramming, after you leave the cult, you can't just walk out of there. It takes a lot of effort to normalize yourself back into society, and cult deprogramming is how you do it. So here you go. Check it out right now. Welcome to stuff. You should know a production of Iheartradios how stuff works. Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W chuck Bryant the always wacky Jerry. So this is stuff you should know. Once again, the 60 seconds preceding the record button being pressed is the gold. I wish we could sell that stuff. Yeah. Sell it on the street. People be hooked on it. You know what the street value of that minute is? What? About $5. That's not bad. Yeah. Chuck? Yes? Have you ever been in a cult? No, not technically. Not at all. Remember we've done episodes on cults, on Brainwashing. This is pretty much the natural extension of that progression. Yeah. We talked a little bit about deprogramming and the cults one, probably. But this one, turns out, has a lot of interesting history I didn't know about. Yes. Man, it is crazy. A dark spot on America's recent past. Yeah. Yet again. Yet another one. Because apparently the powers that be really got everybody so scared over things like the communist threat or nuclear weapons or what have you that America is basically like a herd of spooked cattle for many decades and we channeled our anxieties out on anything other or different. And this is a great case of that. Yeah. And courts will get to this. But they said roundly that you can kidnap and torture and rape people as long as it's out of love. As long as those people are weirdos. Yeah. As long as it's a parent loving their child in the harshest, extreme way. Man, it's you can imagine crazy what people went through. Unbelievable. So the whole thing, we should say, like, America did lose its mind collectively for many years. Yes. And it happens from time to time. It started in good old Salem before there wasn't even in America. It's a long tradition here in this country of everybody yeah. Going crazy. And like I said, this is a case of it. But this case did coalesce around certain things. It wasn't just out of the blue. It wasn't out of nowhere. No. To start off with, in the late 60s, early seventy s, there was a real division between generations in the United States. Sure. Huge. There was the parents who still remember the 50s were raised in the 50s. Born in the 50s, maybe, but definitely were a little more buttoned up and up with Ike than their kids were. Yes. Okay. So imagine if you have kids and they're going through this rebellious phase, and they're smoking pod and they're, like, wearing motorcycle boots and rocking out to the Beatles and flipping you off every time you look at them. And then all of a sudden, this weird tranquility comes over them and they start wearing robes and they shave their head, except for there's a long ponytail in the back and they're still wearing boots and smoking pot and listening to the Beatles. Right. Or they start wearing bow ties and quoting scripture to you. Wouldn't you be like, well, that's a little weird. This is a little odd. Something's going on here with my kid. My kid, who's 20, underwent, like, a serious religious conversion that has never been seen before in our family. That's a little weird, and it's not one I approve of. Yeah. So there's these groups that at the time were called cults. But today, if you read sociology texts or studies or whatever, they're called new religious movements. Yeah. Sex. Right. With a CT. Sex. Yeah. And these groups are basically, at the time, they were all termed cults. Sure. And usually when you think cult, especially United States, it's like some sort of Eastern religion or something like that. But it turns out that the cult movement of the early 70s, late sixty s and into the 80s were actually, for the most part, Bible based. Like Christian cults. Sure. But they took Christian beliefs and teachings and went really far out there with them. Or there was a huge influx of Eastern thought and Eastern religion into the United States, too. And anybody who joined this group joined a cult. But today, if you call them a cult, it's not very nice. You call them a new religious movement or a sect. Right. Yeah. Or in the case of The Source family, which I've talked about as being my favorite cult. Yeah. They just like to have sex and do drugs a lot. The Source. Right. They were a cult, though. Well, yeah, sure. By those definitions right at the time. Yeah. I'd call them a commune now. Okay. Probably that had a band and a charismatic hang gliding frontman. Right. The charismatic thing is a huge thing. Yeah. That's usually the one thing that is the commonality in all new religious movements. They are centered around a central figure. But as the guy who wrote this article, which is a pretty good article, I have to say this is not The Grabster, was it? Noob. A newbie this newbie has taken the Grabster's stuff. Yeah, it should have been the grabster. Well, The Grabster has gotten a serious focus on all things Dungeons and Dragons these days over at IO Nine. Oh, good for him. Yeah. He's moved on and up. But anyway, the author of this article points out that cole is a very slippery word. It has like an in group, out group kind of sentimentality attached to it. Sure. The point is. Over the years. This whole idea of your kid undergoing a religious conversion and then just kind of becoming different. It was bothersome and worrisome to the parents. But then Jonestown happened. And all of a sudden. Any kind of semblance of law or religious freedom or anything like that went right out the window because it was shown and even before that. Thanks to the Manson Family. But really with Jonestown. It was shown that these cults that supposedly. Up to that point. People thought were harmless or even helpful could be very destructive. Over 900 people died. So I get it. I get why people would be upset about perhaps their children joining something that in any way, shape or form resembles Jonestown. Right. So what do you do? Well, you could hire someone to kidnap and torture and beat them and yell at them into submission, aka Deprogramming, aka brainwashing, or I guess they would call it reverse brainwashing. Right. That's kind of the key, is this idea that you were combating this conversion to a new religious movement or a cult group or whatever, based on the idea that your kid couldn't possibly have undergone this conversion and joined this group based on his or her own free will. That's right. So thanks to that Mindset and a guy named Ted Patrick, who we'll talk about right now, the Cult Awareness Network was formed. There were many Dprogrammers, I don't know about many, but there were a handful of D programmers in this time period. But Mr. Patrick sort of led the way. He was born in the Red Light district of Chattanooga, Tennessee, and apparently had a really bad speech impediment such that he couldn't even communicate with people. Right. So he dove into religion, and what he said was, quote, it wasn't long before I could think of was hellfire and damnation. And so he had a bad experience with religion growing up and then had an opportunity in the early seventy s to go and save somebody's kid who fell into what they called occult. Well, he's offered a job. Yes. So there was a scriptural based Christian group called the Children of God, now called the International Family, and apparently they tried to recruit Ted's son and nephew out on the beach in San Diego. And Ted was like, what do you mean some group tried to recruit you? I guess I'll just go infiltrate this group. Yeah, well, he was also approached by parents whose children were in this what they called a cult. So, yeah, he infiltrated it and said, you know what? They were brainwashed, and I'm the guy that can fix it for a fee. Yeah, which is weird because Ted Patrick and somebody named Mia Donovan came out with a documentary recently called Deprogrammed. I'd like to see that. Yes. Apparently it's very tough to find and get your hands on, but it's out there somewhere. And it's all about Ted. Patrick. Ted Black Lightning. Patrick is his name. Yeah. And he was an unlikely candidate to become the face and the leader of what was an anti cult movement that had arisen in the United States, thanks to Jonestown and thanks to the fact that kids were joining cults left and right. Yeah. He was a high school dropout, like you said. He had had his own experiences with scripture and Bible beating and all that kind of stuff. And I guess his heart was in the right place, from what I understand. But he did some really questionable stuff over the years after he formed the Coal Action or Awareness Network. You think it's harder? Was in the right place? That's how Mia Donovan puts it. Really? I think he's trying to make money. So that was another thing to supposedly he was working not for profit that his expenses were paid, and he wasn't really pocketing the money himself. He went the other way pretty quickly because at one point, he was charging up to 25 grand, which would be the equivalent of about $120,000 for each case today to deprogram, to kidnap and reprogram your child. Yeah. A lot of money. Right. So he basically, at the very beginning, said, you know what? How do we get away with this? And he said, I think if we are working with the parents, then we won't be prosecuted for kidnapping because it's their own kid. So I won't, by proxy, be affiliated as an accomplice because it's their children. And you can't kidnap your own child in 1971. No, you can't. And so that worked. At the time, 21 was the federal age for minors. Right. Or for an adult, anything below 21, you are a minor. Unless the state had gone in and rewritten law and said, no, it's actually 18 or 19 or whatever. Yeah. So that covers a pretty decent amount of the emerging cult population. Yeah. And he also figured that I won't get in trouble because once we have freed these people and deprogram them, they won't press charges. They'll be delighted. Right. Exactly. They're brainwashed. All we have to do is unbrindwash them. The other way that he figured out they could be protected by law was if the Colt member was an adult, they could apply for what's called a conservatorship. Yes. And this is basically based on that old kind of law where husband could have his hysterical wife committed if he didn't like her attitude, that kind of thing, where there's a very loose burden of proof on demonstrating that the person was out of their mind. So much so that at this point in time in America, if you hired a cult programmer yes. All you had to do was also shell out $500 or something for a psychologist who would come in and say, the very fact that they're a member of this cult demonstrates that they are mentally ill, and therefore power over them should be granted to their parent, even though this person is an adult. And once that power was granted to the parent, the parent could extend that power to the cult deprogrammers, who would then go and kidnap the cult member and then begin the process of deprogramming. Yeah. And they wouldn't even make any attempts to assess their mental state. It was just sort of I don't know about grandfathered in, but it was just sort of lumped in under the umbrella of the conservatorship. Yeah. Thank you again, psychology. Way to go. Well, should we talk about some of his greatest hits? Well, let's take a break first. Okay. All right, so, Patrick, the first thing he did when he first started doing this was because he didn't really have a shop set up or a staff at this point. He hired street thugs to do the kidnapping. He would just pay dudes that look tough. Ruffians, as they were called. You know how to abduct these kids whenever you hear, like, of a private investigator making air quotes is also involved in, like, a jewel heist or something like that, where there's a real gray area that's occupied by some people who are maybe working on the side of the law, but really they're doing really unlawful things to achieve those ends. Sure. These are the kind of people that were hired by the Cult Awareness Network. That's right. And he eventually was joined by someone named Sandra Sachs, who was a housewife whose son was deprogrammed from, I believe, the Harry Christeness. And then he got, I think, a guy named Goose. I'm not sure of Goose's real name, but he became ultimately his, like, big henchman. Right. So they were sort of the three heading up the network early on, at least. So one of the things he did, it wasn't always religious cults, even he was hired basically any time a parent didn't like what their kid was doing, they could hire him to kidnap them and scream at them and handcuff them to a bed for a week. Yes. Until they said they didn't want to do what they were doing, whether it was being a lesbian or just being a converted Catholic. Yeah. There was one case that he got in trouble for false imprisonment, I believe, out in Denver, where a woman had left the Greek Orthodox Church to go live her own life, and her parents didn't like that, so they hired Ted and his company to deprogram her, I guess, or reprogram her back into the Greek Orthodox Church. It was two girls, two daughters, and their quote at the end of this ordeal was there was nothing to deprogram. Right. We just left the church for another one. Yeah. There's another woman, an English professor out in California, in San Francisco named Sarah Worth, and she had become an anti nuke activist, civil rights activist as well. Yeah. Her mother back in Pennsylvania thought that just was very unbecoming, so she hired the Cult Awareness Network to deprogram her daughter. That's right. This is going on. And it was legal. Well, not I don't know about legal, but it was protected. Here's the thing. So let's talk about why this was legal or quasilegal at the time. Again, America is really scared that there's this cult movement going on, that the youth of America is losing its free will. This is what the whole thing is based on. There are insidious groups out there who are recruiting and brainwashing our kids. What's to become of America if all of our kids are running around it's Hard Krishna's or Bible thumpers or what have you, they're the future. So we have to fight this. And if they're being brainwashed, you need to de brainwash them. So not only was it groups like the Cult Awareness Network who are thinking these things, they were also, like, drumming up a lot of publicity as well. Yeah, they thought it was a big conspiracy. Yeah, a Communist conspiracy is what a lot of people said, too, that ultimately the Communists were behind it. So not only is it this obscure fringe group that knows how to work the media who believes this, it's also the people reading the newspaper, like parents, cops, judges, juries. And if you take someone to court for kidnapping you and beating you up until you agree to stop being a hari Krishna and the judge is convinced that you have been brainwashed by the Hare Krishna, the judge is not going to rule in your favor. And therefore, this whole technique, this whole method that was used for more than a decade was quasilegal for as many times as he was dragged into court. Ted Patrick was only in prison twice. One time for, like, ten days and another time for 60. Yeah. There was one famous case. Stephanie Wright Miller in Ohio. Her parents hired Patrick and his crew because she was a lesbian. Well, they suspected she was a lesbian. Yes. Was she, in fact? Yes. Okay, so they paid $8,000, which would be 21 grand today, to kidnap her. She was 19 years old. She was walking on the street with her friend on the sidewalk. They pull up in a van, they mace her friend, and they throw her in the back of the van and subdue her. She was driven to Alabama from Ohio and over the course of the next seven days was raped once a day by a guy named James Rowe, who was one of the henchmen that worked with Patrick. Right. In order to get her back into the heterosexual mindset. Right. Yeah. Which we're going to do a whole podcast on gay drogramming at some point. Okay. Because that's a whole different thing. Yeah. But that has its roots in something like this, obviously, because it did go to trial. The defense attacked her roommate, who was gay and said, look at her boots and her pickup truck, and she has a doberman pinscher. This is very unbecoming. She has a very overbearing style. What they were trying to prove was that the roommate had brainwashed her into becoming a lesbian. Right. And just look at her with her boots and her pickup truck. Right. So eventually it goes to trial, and the judge, hamilton county judge Simon lease, L-E-I-S he was not very sympathetic at all of her lifestyle. Of course, he said homosexuality was immoral, and he told the jury that the lifestyle was an issue, but I'm not going to represent to you that I approve of the sexual preference. And he called it unnatural. So eventually he said what the parents did was wrong, but I don't think there's any question that they did was totally done out of love for their daughter. And he described the tactics, even the rape, to detract, like you said, from her lesbianism and attract her to heterosexual activity. So he got off with that one, huh? Yeah, and I don't think he was actually in the room. There was a lot of back and forth on what he knew and what he didn't know about this case. But the guy who raped her got away with it again. He was dragged into court over and over again. And a lot of the cult groups did not fight back in some cases because they didn't want to open their books, from what I understand. Right. Which they may have had to, had they fought anything like this in court, but also because America as a whole was against them. Like, have you remember airplane, the original one? I just watched it the other day where he just beats up a bunch of moonies in the airport who's trying to offer him a free flower. Yeah. One of them is Joe Azuzu, for god's sake. I know. He's America's sweetheart. Well, he should have been beating up for that. So it was a joke, obviously. But it definitely pointed out this whole sentiment that america had toward cult at the time, which was like, it was open season, man. They were fair game inside and outside of court. There was an indictment in New York where they indicted some hari krishna leaders for using mind control. In an indictment in a court of law, the words mind control were used to indict somebody for a crime, which has never been proven. Like, how do you mind control somebody? It's crazy. But this is like the kind of sentiment that was going on at the time, right? Yes. And so you could be. If you were a member of what was considered a cult group. And your parents were well healed enough to afford the cult awareness network. You could be sitting there hanging out in the commune one day. Playing your acoustic guitar. What have you. Thinking about consciousness and the universality of it and all of a sudden. The door gets kicked in. And Ted Patrick and some of his henchmen enter. Grab you. Your buddy stands up to be like, hey, man, you can't do that. And they mace him. And they take you, throw you in a van, drive you several states over, maybe, to your parents house. I think they frequently use the parents house because they added, like, an extra sense of legality to it. Right. And then they would keep you there for as long as they wanted to. They would beat you. They would abuse you physically, emotionally, verbally. They would starve you. They would deprive you of sleep, and you weren't allowed to leave. You were berated constantly. They would take shifts. They would have your family come in and berate you. And all of this was completely made up out of whole cloth by Ted Patrick. Like, he had no training whatsoever in any kind of brainwash techniques. No, there is no training. Right. But he just kind of intuitively got that. Like, if you deprive someone of sleep or food, they'll start to do what you want them to. And the whole goal of it, as far as he was concerned, was to snap somebody out of it. Right. And when somebody snapped, they basically gave into your will in that they were no longer resisting. They were no longer saying, my right to be a Harry Krishna is protected by the First Amendment. You have kidnapped me. I want to go. Please leave. Please leave me alone. They just said, Fine, you're right. I don't want to be a hard Christian anymore. That could be snapping. It could also be something that was a lot closer in complexion to something like that religious conversion, but it would be like a conversion back where they'd start crying and weeping. And these are the ones that were frequently pointed to as proof positive that deprogramming actually worked, because there are a lot of people who are deprogramming said, this is a great thing for me. But that has been explained time and time again as basically a lot of kids who join cults did so because they felt like they weren't accepted at home or by their families or whatever. And they would see, once they were kidnapped and taken back to their parents'house, that maybe their parents actually did care about them more than they realized. They were willing to spend some money and hire Black Lightning to come beat me up until I agree to come back home. So maybe that was the reason for this snapping. Yeah. And sometimes they would fake it altogether to get out of that prison, which is the case, which we'll talk about right after this break of Jason Scott. All right, so Jason Scott, this was not a Patrick affair. This was a guy named Rick Ross and another guy, two guys named Mark Workman and Charles Simpson. Yes, but they were referred by the Colt Awareness Network that's right. C-A-N was involved. Well, yeah, they were referred, but this wasn't Patrick heading up this conversation. And this is a guy named Jason Scott. And he was kidnapped and brought to out in the boonies in Washington state. And he was held there for days against his will, physically abused, all the stuff that we've been going over, because they wanted him to leave this Pentecostal church that he was in with his brothers. I think his mom was in it at one point, but she left the sons, decided to stay, and she was like, I don't like what's going on over there. So she hired them to deprogram him. It failed in that. Scott eventually, after four days of torture, he faked it and said, I don't believe that stuff anymore. He broke down in tears and said he completely rebuked everything that he had stood for. And so they said, well, this is great. It worked. Let's go out for a celebration dinner with your family. And he was allowed to use the bathroom at the restaurant by himself for the first time in a week. And he ran to the police, and the police arrested these guys. There was a civil suit filed this is where it gets really interesting. There was a civil suit filed on Jason Scott's behalf by counselor for the lead council of the Church of Scientology. So now Scientology is getting involved. They end up bankrupting through this court case. They awarded $875,000 in compensatory damages, a million in damages of punitive nature against the Cult Awareness Network, and 2.5 million against Ross himself. It ended up bankrupting them. And then the Church of Scientology buys out the Cult Awareness Network in bankruptcy court, buys their assets, buys their logo, buys their name, renames it the new Cult Awareness Network, and now it's run by the Church of Scientology. Right. So if you're looking for help to get your kid out of a cult, including Scientology, the helpful people there will explain to you how great Scientology is. What's funny, though, is that this Jason Scott case was one of about 50 that were brought at the time through Scientology lawyers. This just happened to be the one that stuck. Yeah, it went all the way to the Supreme Court where they denied the appeal, and in the end, Scott only got about $5,000 and 200 hours of professional services from Ross, which I didn't understand. No, I'll explain it to you. They became buddies, apparently. They did become buddies. So apparently, Jason Scott, he forgave his mother. He also forgave Rick Ross. He broke from the Scientology lawyer. Yeah, he had a different lawyer after that. I guess he felt a little fleeced, maybe by the Scientologists, or used, I should say, and ended up being chummy with Rick Ross. So he sold Rick Ross his settlement, which should have been $3 million for five grand and 200 hours of his services of deprogramming services. Right. To Deprogram, I think his daughter or something like that. No, that's what I couldn't find. Yeah. So Rick Ross is still at it. He's an exit counselor. And if you listen to him talk, it's really weird, man, approaching this from the outside. Like there was a war that was going on that is still being fought here there. But the average person wouldn't know about it in the media between the anti cult movement. Which is headed up by people like Ted Patrick and Rick Ross. And the Cult Awareness Network. The old version of it. And I guess cult movement. Which has as disparate members as the Church of Scientology. The Catholic League. First Amendment. People like the ACLU on another side. So, like this battle that went on and Scientology ultimately won just because they bled the anti cult movement out in the courts. But like I said, Rick Ross is still at it. What he's doing now is exit counseling. And if before deprogramming was coercive brainwashing, then exit counseling is the opposite of that. It's basically like a drug intervention. But as far as cults are concerned, yeah. The idea is that you get the whole family involved. You get the person who you're trying to counsel, I guess, involved, and they all agree to meet and they talk to them about what they were doing and they explained to them about the harmful practices of that cult or not cult, depending on what it is. And essentially it's a really intensive therapy, group therapy with your family. Right. But again, not coerced, supposedly voluntary. And the proper way to go about it. Still expensive, though. Right. But like a normal intervention or like a drug related intervention. It'll probably be a surprise to the cult member, but in an exit counseling seminar session or whatever, that person has to agree to stick around and listen. They can leave at any point in time. There's no more kidnapping and duct taping. Right. So that's the state of affairs now. And it's really weird, again, because this is the remnants of this infowar that went on between the anti cult movement and the cult movement or the new religious movement movement. And the whole thing is muddy, morally speaking, because there are people walking around, including ones that were abducted and beaten up or mistreated or abused or tortured by Cult Awareness Network or other D programmers who say, if it weren't for those guys, I'd probably still be in a cult right now. Sure. And I'm really grateful to my parents for shelling out the money to have these guys kidnapped me because I was lost in life and very vulnerable at the time, and this really helped get me back on track. Well, yeah. And cults can be destructive and destroy people's lives and kill people. Right. But what you can't do is I think the problem came when everything was lumped together under one big umbrella called cult. Exactly. That's exactly right. Because who was Ted Patrick or anybody else? The great decider of what made acceptable religious beliefs and non acceptable religious beliefs? Where was that dividing line and who gave him the right to do it? Man, could you imagine if this was going on today with the way things are? Well, it kept going until 1995 was when that judgment came down, and it bankruptcy. Cult Awareness Network. I'm talking about 2015. Yeah. With the way things are, I could see wackos left and right hiring people to abduct their children and set them straight. Well, supposedly they made out pretty well in the Satanic Panic of the 80s, too. Oh, I'm sure that documentary deprogram is largely about the director's stepbrother, who was deprogrammed by Ted Patrick because their parents thought that he was a satanist or whatever because he listened to heavy metal. We should do one on the PMRC and back masking that whole just call it like 80s Satanic Panic or something. Let's do it. That'd be a good one. Okay. There's a book. Ted. Patrick wrote a book called Let Our Children Go. There's an exclamation point in the title. That's right, because you Better in 1976. And here was one quote. That's something he bragged a lot about some of these things. Yeah. He said he saw west, one of the people he deprogrammed. He said west had taken up a position facing the car with his hands on the roof and his legs spread eagled. There was no way to let him inside while he was braced like that. I had to make a quick decision. I reached down between Wes's legs, grabbed him by the crotch, and squeezed hard. He let out a howl and doubled up, grabbing for his groin with both hands. Then I hit, shoving him headfirst into the back seat of the car and piling in on top of him. And then Jason Scott, I think, was duct tape, put face down in a van and, like, this 300 pound guy sat on him. And that can kill you. Yes, it can. Pretty kooky stuff, man. Yeah. How to combat brainwashing by brainwashing. I love pretty neat looking back in America's recent past to see how crazy it's been from time to time, every once in a while, it just goes nuts. We just go crazy. Yeah. Let's see. You got anything else? I got nothing else. If you want to know more about deprogramming, you can type those words in the search barhowtuffworks.com. And since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. Hey, guys. Just finished listening to your hot air balloons, podcast. I'm calling this hot air Balloon email. I jumped the gun. Having worked for a hot air balloon company for two years in Napa Valley, where I grew up, I worked on the ground crew, the chase crew, as we called it. The company I worked for, Napa Valley Balloons, has balloons that can fit two people all the way up to 20 people. The envelope, although it looks like, can weigh an excess of \u00a3600. And the basket is easily twice that, if not more. He wrote a lot about getting all the hot air out and what an arduous process that was. I can imagine. And then he has another good little story here. One day after we launched the balloons from just north of Napa, the wind picked up and one of the pilots couldn't find a safe place to land. I'm going to call this Josh's worst nightmare fortune. The balloon kept going south and what was supposed to be an hour flight was getting close to 2 hours. The balloon got so far south that it was approaching the San Francisco Bay. And if it got over the bay, the balloon wouldn't have enough fuel to make it to land again. So the pilot made an emergency landing in a wheat field that was the last land before the bay. We try not to land somewhere without permission, but in this case, it was an emergency. The pilot left with the customer, so we had to contact the owner of the land and had to be let on to the property to get our balloon. Understandably, the owner was angry, but we gave him a bottle of champagne, as you said, they still do that and offered to pay for the damages to his crops. While most flights had no issues whatsoever, this one sticks out in my mind because it was a particularly exciting day. Nice. That is Ryan from Washington, DC. Via Napa Valley. I like the part about champagne. Sure. I like the part where the pilot left with the customers really quickly after he landed. Right. Exactly. Who is that? Ryan. Thanks, Ryan. That was a good story. Again, I like the champagne part the most. Yes. If you want to get in touch with us and tell us all of your champagne wishes and caviar dreams, you can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on facebook. Comstepychano. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@howstoughfworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web. Stuffyoushow.com. Stuff you should know is production of iheartradios how Stuff Works. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite show. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer, school's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime four days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon Music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my favorite Murder, and Small All Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today." | |
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podcasts.howstuffworks.com/hsw/podcasts/sysk/2018-02-08-sysk-hyde-mystery-final.mp3 | The Mystery of The Grand Canyon Newlyweds | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/the-mystery-of-the-grand-canyon-newlyweds | In 1928 Bessie and Glen Hyde attempted to navigate their way through the belly of the Grand Canyon in a homemade boat. They disappeared without a trace and their mystery endures all these years later. Listen in today to hear all about the tragic and myste | In 1928 Bessie and Glen Hyde attempted to navigate their way through the belly of the Grand Canyon in a homemade boat. They disappeared without a trace and their mystery endures all these years later. Listen in today to hear all about the tragic and myste | Thu, 08 Feb 2018 15:12:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2018, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=8, tm_hour=15, tm_min=12, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=39, tm_isdst=0) | 50123430 | audio/mpeg | "This July, don't miss an entire summer of surprises on Disney Plus with Disney's High School Musical, the series season three Zombies, three Doctor Strange in the multiverse of Madness, and the wonderful summer of Mickey Mouse. Plus new episodes of Marvel Studios, ms. Marvel and National Geographics. America the Beautiful. From the award winning producers of Planet Earth, Frozen Planet and the Disney Nature films, america the Beautiful takes viewers on a tour of the most spectacular and visually arresting regions of our great nation. All these and more streaming this month on Disney Plus. Hey, everybody, if you have extra space or maybe you travel a lot, you should consider hosting on Airbnb. Just think about all that extra income. You could contribute more to your retirement or pay for a big trip. And if the thing that's holding you back is that you're worried about your stuff, well, don't be. Airbnb gives you air cover for hosts, damage protection that's free every time you host. Learn more and host with peace of mind at Airbnb Comaircoverforhosts. Hey, everybody. We are going on tour in 2018 and we are super excited because there are a couple of new cities in addition to a couple of old favorites. And where are we headed, my friend? Are you ready for this, Chuck? I am. Not only do I know where we're headed, I know the exact dates that will be there. That's good. On April 4, 2018, we are going to be in Boston at the beloved Wilbur Theater. We're excited about that. That's right. Yeah. And you can get tickets there at the Wilbur.com website. The next night we're going to be in Washington DC at the Lincoln Theater truck. That's April 5. That is right. And previously we erroneously said March. But it is April. Yeah, it is April. And go to Ticketfly.com to look up that show. Then, Chuck, in May, at the end of May 22 and May 23, we're going to be in St. Louis and then Cleveland. Yes, very excited about those. Those are the new cities you mentioned. That's right. And then in June and what is the date of June 28? June 28 will be in Englewood, Colorado at the Ghetto Theater. That's right. And we may be adding a show the day before. We do not know yet, but stay tuned for more details. Maybe adding a show in either Denver or Boulder. So stay tuned for that. Yes. So if you're in Denver, go to AXS.com for tickets. If you're in Cleveland, go to Playhouse Squareorg for tickets. And then if you're in St. Louis, you can find it on Ticketmaster. So come see us live. You're going to love it, right, Chuck? That's right. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetofworkscom. Hi and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. And there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. And there is Jerry Jerome Roland. And so since the three of us are together and we've got our life jackets on it's stuff you should know that might have been in the clumsiest yet. Not bad. It was pretty bad shot. Come on, let's admit it. How are you doing? I'm good. I'm thrilled about this one, man. I love mysteries, especially, like, real life mysteries and true crime, although this isn't necessarily crime. And to run across one, it's, like, genuinely interesting because there's a lot of them out there that's like, wow, this is kind of interesting. Or this is a mystery, but it's actually not that interesting. It's kind of like documentaries. There are a ton of documentaries out there, but the best ones maybe represent the top 5%. I don't know. Same with horror movies, too. Yeah, but I think it's the same thing for Unsolved Mysteries. Some are definitely more interesting than others. So I guess what I'm saying is, thank you for introducing me to this unsolved mystery because I hadn't heard of it before, and it's a good one. I think that was even more clumsy than the first thing. Oh, I thought that was pro. So I wanted to shout out somebody real quick. Okay. As you can see, my new piece of metal in my skull. Yeah, it looks good. Thank you. Gleaming. So part two of Chuck implant, saga number three. Part two of three to make sense. Yeah. Third implant, second stage. Now it doesn't make sense. This is the third implant that I'm getting. I got you. And I just completed phase two as of yesterday, as you know. Okay. Now, I actually have the implant in my skull, and it is going to fuse with my skull for the next few months. But I wanted to shout out Dr. Going here in Atlanta and Casey, one of Doctor Going's surgical team members, because here's how this goes down. I'm laying there in a dental chair with, like, one of those surgical hair nets. I didn't know there was such a thing. You know, the thing you wear over your head as a door cap, I guess. But it's not plastic. It's gauzy. Okay, so a gauzy shower cap, that wouldn't work in the shower, right? So I'm laying there. I'm getting heart monitors put on my ankles. They complimented my Mandy socks, by the way. Quick shout out to them. And a shout out, that's rare. They're putting on my heart monitors and all that stuff. They're like, Your blood pressure is a little high. And I said, don't talk to me about that. And then the doctor comes in, and weirdly Doctor Going always says that I'm an attorney. And I don't know if he's joking every time because he has an odd sense of humor or if he really thinks I'm an attorney. And he said something to one of his assistants, turns out to be Casey about me being an attorney for somebody. I was like, you know, I'm not a lawyer. And he's like, what did you do? And I said, Well, I'm a podcast host, which you can actually say now without some big, long, dumb explanation like we used to have to do, or making something up, like saying I'm a radio host or whatever. And he went, oh, what podcast? And said, Stuff you should know. And this Casey lady starts to like, shake. That's what you want the surgical assistant to start doing right before you go under. This is as I'm getting my IV put in, and that knocks me out into that wonderful, blissful state of what do they call it? Twilight sleep. And Casey is sort of legit freaking out and obviously is a dedicated super fan type, and we sort of are having a bit of a conversation as I go under. And I'm like, I don't know how I feel about that. But anyway, she was great. How do you feel about it now? Well, I kind of came out of it. And then you don't remember anything for like 4 hours? I literally don't remember the ride home. All I remember is getting in bed and then waking up like 4 hours later right, with Casey wiping your brows, which is weird because it was in my house. But I woke up and I was like, well, that was kind of fun that she was in there. And I was like, but wait a minute. Do I have all these weird pictures now of me asleep in a chair? So I'm glad you led it to this. We have an official stuff you should know. Facebook page. And if everyone wants to see Chuck knocked out, you can just go to that Facebook page because we posted them. So thanks to Casey for supplying us with the pictures. No, I'm sure they didn't do that. But anyway, thanks to Casey for all her care and support. Nice. Because she literally said, well, you mentioned me on the show. Oh, and you said yes. Well, I was doped up. Who knows what I said yes to? You always have to keep up with promises you make while you're doped up. Well, the joke, too, with Emily and I is that stuff is like truth serum. Like when you come out of it, like anything Emily will ask me, I will tell her. And we were joking about that beforehand. And then on the way home, apparently, I leaned over in the car and said, here's my truth for him. You are the love of my life. That is sweet. She said it was very sweet, and I have no memory of it. Nice. So, you know it's legit. It's got to be. Anyway, that is quite a story, Chuck. Can't wait to hear the third chapter. Thanks for indulging that. Yeah, I should be having another real tooth or real fake tooth in about three months. Cool. So we'll all be waiting until then. So, Chuck, that was a very sweet story, especially the Emily part. And this story that we're about to tell is kind of sweet in a lot of ways, too, depending on how you look at it or depending on who you listen to, I think is more to the point. Yeah. Well said. So let's start then, since we're going to be telling kind of the sweet story, the sweet version of this. When these two people met, Bessie and Glenn Hyde, it was in 1927, February of 1927, and they were on a boat, which would prove precedent for them, for them to meet on a boat. But they were on, like, a kind of a small cruise ship that was traveling down the California coast from San Francisco to Los Angeles on a trip, and they met on this boat, and they apparently hit it off immediately, and they spent the next year together. And then on April of 1928. They tied the knot in Idaho. Which is kind of surprising because if you had taken Betsy Haley. I think. Was her maiden name. And Glenn Hide. And you put them side by side. Which you can do because there are photographs of them together. They're not exactly like the couple that you'd point to in different corners on other sides of the room and say those two are meant for each other. But it turns out they seem to have been. Why do you think they were not well matched? Well, they were just different people. They don't visually look correct together necessarily, which doesn't really matter. It doesn't mean anything, but they were different people. He was a bean farmer from Idaho. She was a West Virginia girl who made her way out west to San Francisco to study poetry at the California Institute of Fine Arts, I believe, which is now the San Francisco Art Institute. They just had different paths. But when they came together, I think what they shared in common was a sense of a love of adventure and trying new things. Yeah, she was married previously for a very short time, for just a couple of months. And it's really hard because obviously they weren't, like, as well documented as many people, and not many people back then were well documented at all. But I saw a two month marriage and that she got divorced the day before she got remarried. What I saw is that her divorce was finalized the day before, on April 11. Yeah. Okay. And then they got married the day after, like, the first day they could once their divorce is final, they got married, I think, is what it was. Well, that's pretty sweet, too. So that's what I'm saying. It's a pretty sweet story, really. Well, let's go back even further and talk a little bit about their earlier lives, because Mr. Glenn Hyde was pretty interesting. He was born December 9, 1898, and he had a younger sister named Jean. Or is that Jeannie, I think jean. Jean Hyde. J-E-A-N-N-E that always throws me for a loop. It does every time. The old Gene trick. So that was his sister. And the reason she's important is because they seem like they were just an adventurous, outdoorsy family as a whole. Because he and his sister would eventually take a trip together on a boat. He met a dude named Harry Goliki. Golecki and Jean. Those are the two names to throw you off. Well, that's a very weird spelling of Golecke. Right. But he was an experienced boatman, and he knew a lot about this boat called a sweep, scowl, scow. And these things you should just look up sweepscow. It's been called a coffin on the water. It's very boxy and does not look like the kind of boat, especially from today's point of view, that you would want to go down and shoot the rapids in. No, definitely not. It looks like it should be slowly pulled by a donkey walking along the bank. That's absolutely what it looks like. And one of the things besides it's ungainly shape, it's a flat bottom wooden boat that's kind of curved up slightly at the front, and it's as boxy as, like, early 80s Volvo. Yeah. But the other thing about it that would make you not want to take it on whitewater rapids is that is the way it's steered. It's steered by basically 20 foot long oars that don't go out the sides of the boat. They go out the bow and the stern, the front and the rear of the boat. Yeah, those are the sweeps. Right. And they're very heavy, and they move pretty fast. And you have to stand in the middle of the boat in between the sweeps and hang on to one or the other, both, depending on whether you're steering it yourself or if you and a friend are steering it, too. And you basically just kind of navigate and steer down rapids or river or whatever in the scowl holding these sweeps, these paddles that are going front and back. And it looks extraordinary. Like, it's just the worst idea you could think of when you think of shooting whitewater rapids in a boat. Like, not that yeah, I mean, there was some steering involved, but it also looks to me like the boat probably kind of goes where the river takes it in many cases. Sure. Glenn is an adventurous guy. When he was 21, he started doing these big, long canoe trips with friends. And I'm not talking, like, let me go out for a couple of days. I mean, he had a big plan with his sister and the scale to go from the Salmon River in Idaho all the way to the Pacific Ocean. Yeah, they did that. And they did that in 1926, finally, which is pretty amazing, especially at that time, to go on these long journeys with these crazy boxy boats. It was brave. And at the time, people would literally die trying to do things like the Grand Canyon River. Yeah. At the time. The Grand Canyon. So around the late 1920s, the Grand Canyon was just, like, basically a widowmaker. It was extraordinarily treacherous to go down the Grand Canyon. It still is today. But today you have the advantages of helmets, of really good life jackets, of the fact that the rapids and the obstructions and the river as a whole. The Colorado River that goes through the Grand Canyon is extensively mapped. The people who are on the river know exactly what's coming and what to do. At the time, at the late 1920s, there were people who knew the river, but it wasn't anything like it is now. There weren't commercial trips, and it just wasn't nearly as extensively mapped as it is today. So it was extremely treacherous, and a lot of people were still dying. I mean, it only been successfully navigated for the first time, like, less than 60 years before Becky and Glenn decided to do it themselves. Yeah. I think here in 1928, only 45 people had managed to fully traverse the entire length of this river by boat. And they were all dudes, 100% of them. And like you said, none of them were led on a guide. It was all just these adventurous, death wish oriented fellows. Yes. And not even necessarily just, like, a sense of adventure. That was part of it. But this is also akin to polar explorations or Everest explorations or Charles Lindberg going down the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon was the same thing as Charles Lindbergh flying across the Atlantic, the same thing as Mallory trying to crest Everest. It was the same type of expeditionadventure. Like the Smithsonian would back it, that kind of thing. Yeah. Those early days of adventuring like that, I mean, what people do now is amazing, for sure, but just the equipment and how little was known back then, it was just insane what people were doing back then. Imagine going down a river with classified whitewater rapids. That's uncharted. No one has ever made a map of that river before, and you have no idea what's coming up. Yeah, you got to have some serious construction. Inner construction. Yeah. Constitution, it seems like. Glenn, he definitely had that, but he also had experience, too. In addition to the Salmon River Run that he did with his sister Gene, years previous to that, he had also done the, I think, either the Peace River or the Pierce River. It's a river in Canada. And he and a friend of his name, Jess Nebuchar, spent six months just kind of, like, running this river and camping and fishing and hunting. So he had experience in addition to a desire for adventure, too. Yeah. So Bessie, for her part, like you said, she ended up going on this trip, so she clearly had a little bit of a sense of adventure. But I get the feeling it wasn't her idea to begin with because she was a poet and she was an artist. She was born on December 2919. Five was a theater girl. She acted the part of Juliet in the stage production in high school of Romeo and Juliet and like you said, went to Cal Arts by herself. Just moved to California alone from West Virginia. Yeah, that was pretty adventurous in 1924. For sure. It's adventurous today, but back then especially, and it's funny that everybody mentions that she played Juliet in the high school play because it really gets across how young she was when she was doing this because she hadn't had enough life to really mention too many other things. She hadn't done enough yet. Who knows what she would have done? She was a pretty interesting person, it seems like. Well, yeah. And if you're in front of your computer or in a place where you can look on your phone, just look up images of Bessie and Glenn Hyde. And there are quite a few very famous black and white photos of them and they're just cool looking. Like bessie looks contemporary to me. Yes, she does. And a lot of times you look at these pictures and they look like of the time she looks a little bit like one of Emily's friends from college. And she always wore at least in these photos, she always wore this cool bomber jacket and she just looks like a cool lady. Cool dude. I just admire them as a couple. Yeah, they do look cool, especially in their outfits. I know exactly what you mean. You know? Yes. No, they look like they're ready for adventure, 1920 style. All right, well, should we take a break? Yes, let's, because their adventure is about to start. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but we're pretty excited about summer. What's not to like? School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's right. And that's where True crime podcasts on Amazon Music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or if you're brave enough, late nights. Yeah, and with so many killer shows like Morbid, my Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. Prepare to go deep and become your own detective in the world of serial crimes and unsolved mysteries. Get lost hearing spooky stories with a combination of detailed research and light hearted analysis. Whether you're a lifetime fan of true crime or you just feel like being entertained while doing the dishes at night, there's a podcast out there for you to download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today, only 45% of high school students feel they are prepared for college or careers. Stride career prep is helping change that. Stride Career Prep lets students take charge of their education and their future by combining real world skills training and traditional academics. Students can earn college credit while in high school or get the training needed to land a job right after graduation. Stride Career Prep prepares your team for indemand careers in business, tech, health, science, criminal justice, and more. Students can take courses developed by industry professionals, prepare for certifications, get hands on experience, network, and most importantly, gain the confidence they need to succeed. Stride Career Prep is backed by over 20 plus years of experience in online learning and education. Take charge at K. Twelvecom podcast. That's K twelve.com podcast. And start taking charge of your future today. Okay, Chuck, as I promised and then laughed about, their adventure is about to start. Yeah, and I'm glad you dug up that thing. Well, first of all, a lot of this is from Hyde River Tragedy from Arizona State University's website go some devils. And then an article from the La Times from 2001 called What Really Happened to Best England by Anne Jedinga. And then really the big shout out we need to give is to Brad Demack. Those articles, it's based a lot on his research. He's this dude who was a river guide through the Grand Canyon for years, who was also, I don't know if he's a self taught or formerly trained historian, but he did exhaustive research for a couple of decades, I believe actually recreated the River Run Betsy and Glenn did with his wife and is the most knowledgeable person who has ever lived about this case, for sure. But you ended up digging up a thing. And what leads me to this is I was about to say that the idea behind their trip to begin with was a woman has never done this and what we're going to do is do this trip and afterward we will be famous like Charles Lynnberg or like Hillary Mallory. Hillary? Yes. I think I said Mallory. I was thinking family ties. And the idea is that they could make money off this, go on the lecture circuit, write books and everyone you see that printed everywhere. But you ended up digging up that's a little bit under dispute because you found a letter actually from Bessie pretrip where she doesn't really mentioned anything about that, which seems a little weird. Yeah. And so this is Bread Dek again, the historian who knows more than anybody about this mystery, and he dug this letter up, but I have to give myself a shout out for digging the Brad Dimmock Note up, which was in a 2003 issue of Boatman's Quarterly. It's an academic and literary journal dedicated to boating, like on rivers. Well, and the funny thing is, you weren't even looking for it. You were just on the john in your house. What a coincidence, right? I happen to have that issued quarterly in my bathroom. So this letter from Bessie, it was written to her aunt and uncle, Ruth and Millard Haley, and apparently hours before she departed they departed from Green River, Utah. And one of the things that did was clear up the size of the boat because everyone always said it was 5ft wide, but apparently it's five and a half feet wide. Yes. Which would have made it more stable but harder to maneuver. Sure. But she never says anything in there about, hey, we're doing this so we can use this to our advantage and become famous and make money. She doesn't mention it? No. And almost like the way that she describes the trip, she says she's very excited about it, but the way that she describes it is like it has nothing to do with that as far as these letters concerned. And she's writing this 3 hours before. And so we're saying all this. You guys who aren't familiar with the mystery are probably like, why are you even mentioning this part of this legend that grew after the mystery happened or after this likely tragedy happened? Part of it was that there was this idea that Bessie and Glen undertook this to basically make their fame and fortune. And that paints a different picture of their character than what they actually were, which was real deal, legit adventure seekers who were capable, at least in the form of Glenn and Willing, who weren't doing it for fame or fortune. They were doing it because this is a neat thing to try to do together on their honeymoon. That's the reality of it. Not kind of this gold digging thing that kind of grew up as part of the legend over the years. Yeah. And this one thing even says it was sure to bring book deals, lecture circuits, and possibly even a vaudeville play. Yeah. I mean, still to this day, like, if you see sources or read write ups about this mystery, that's almost across the board, how people characterize it. And part of the reason why they do is because Brad Dimmock in his 2001 book characterized it the exact same way, but in that Boatman's Quarterly or Boatman's Review, this was published in 2003. So he must have just wanted to just die because he found this thing after a book without yes, and he said that it confirmed like a nagging suspicion in his head and he didn't just make it up or he didn't just take a campfire legend and publish that. The problem was there was a source that he used. His main source was a guy named Otis Doc Marston. And he basically made this exhaustive history of the Grand Canyon and I believe the Grand Canyon or the Colorado River, but I think it was the Grand Canyon as a whole. And he dedicated a chapter to the Hides and he interviewed people, but he was interviewing people like 30 years on. And in his collection of notes, there's a note from an eyewitness that says that they said that they were seeking fortune and fame and were thinking about writing a book and taking it on a lecture circuit. That's where that whole legend came from. So this isn't necessarily like a huge thing. Like the mystery doesn't turn on this. It's more like a lesson for historians and people who use historians as sources that it can still be gotten wrong, like legends can still pervade into even official histories of things, too. And you have to take that stuff with a grain of salt. Yeah. And so shout out to Democrats. Book sunk without a sound. Colon. Always got to have a colon. Sure. The tragic Colorado River honeymoon of Glen and Bessy Hyde. So one thing we got to mention here about their trip is that Glenn High didn't jet down to the Grand Canyon River Boat Shop and plunged down $1,000 on the best boat he could find. He because he had met and was inspired by the Harry Galecki guy, he said, I'm going to build this thing. And he did for $50 and took him a couple of days. He built his own scowl named and clearly they had a bit of sense of humor because he called it the Rain in the Face, which is very cute and kind of fun. And that is what they launched. That's what they launched in. They loaded it up with supplies, of course, their journals, food. They even had a mattress in there so they could sleep, which I thought was adorable, which actually gives you an idea of how big this boat is. 20ft long, five and a half feet wide, and a California King mattress right in the middle of it. Right. Just hanging over the sides, but in getting wet. That'd be so gross. But the boat was open. Like, the sides were only 3ft high, and it was an open boat. So they were living in this boat, basically in a floating tent going down the river. They lived in the one thing that Glenn did not bring, and this is where I get a little confounded for an experienced river boatman. He didn't bring life jackets, which is weird. He didn't bring life jackets precisely because he was an experienced river boatman. Yeah, I still think that's odd. So you get the impression when you hear that, that he just refused to take life check it's. That he was just this kind of, like, laugh in the face of danger fool. And to an extent that is foolish. To every extent. Sure. But it wasn't like it was just him. That was the culture of the river boatman in Idaho or the people that he knew and boated with. You just didn't wear life jackets. It just wasn't done. You didn't need them if you had any kind of experience. You don't even need to take them on an expedition through the Grand Canyon. And that's why he didn't bring them. Yeah. I'm not sure I buy that, though, because at some point, they met up with another very famous boatman. Named Emory Cole. And he said, hey, you guys should have these life jackets. I'm an experienced boatman, and there's no shame in that. And Glenn said, no, thank you. Yeah, I think he was used to different rivers than this one. I think there was a different boating culture on the Colorado than there was along, say, like the salmon. Well, Emory Cole, for his part, said later on, he said, we hung out for a little bit, and for my take at least, is that Bessie was kind of ready to quit. I mean, this is after they had made their way through Labyrinth, Stillwater and Cataract Canyon. And so they had been at it for a little while by the time they met him at Bright Angel Creek. And he said, yeah, I don't think she was so into it at that point. Yes, let's just step back for a second. They launched on October 20, and they made it. So they launched from Green River, Utah. Have you looked at a map and seen what they did in a boat? Oh, yeah. It's insane just even considering doing this, but the fact that they made it as far as they did is pretty incredible. But they launched from Green River, Utah, on the Green River, followed it down to where it met the Colorado, made it all the way into the Grand Canyon, and then stopped and met Emery Cold 26 days into their journey. Okay. And so when they get out, the day they met, Emory called. They were basically resupplying restocking with supplies. And there are different descriptions of how best of attitude was toward the trip from that same day, because in addition to meeting Emery Cole, they met a bunch of people. They went and had dinner at the hotel, and I think they spent the night in the hotel and then set out again the next day. But the day that they disembarked from their boat, hiked up the trail to this Grand Canyon village where a lot of people and tourists where they met a Denver Post Dispatch reporter and Bessie told them straight up, she said she's having the time of her life, that she's enjoying every thrilling minute of it. And then the next day, Emery Cole says that he spoke to her and she wanted to quit, and Glenn was urging her on. Now comes another legend that's developed. And if you go on some of these river guide tours down on the Grand Canyon and they talk to you about the hides, the way that it's usually painted is that Glenn was basically a wife beating brute who forced Bessie into this adventure scheme again for fame or fortune. And even when she wanted to quit, he kept pressing her along against her will. Well, what that reporter didn't mention is that she was spelling help with her foot in the dirt as they were talking. He just failed to look down. Yeah, who knows? Part of the fun of this mystery is that it was the 1920s and everyone is kind of grasping at straws here trying to figure this thing out. Yeah. It wasn't like super documented. Like today there would be 15,000 pictures before they even launched on Facebook. Right, exactly. All taken by them, even selfies. Although it is interesting to me, they had set out at an age when you had to be fairly well off to have a camera. But at the time, the Grand Canyon was just becoming a tourist attraction for the fairly well off. So there were people with cameras around there and like you said, there are pictures of them, which makes it the whole thing to me even more interesting. If I hadn't seen pictures of them, I don't think I would find the mystery quite as interesting. But to see them with pictures taken by the last person who saw them alive, it just adds like a certain interesting element to it. Maybe creepiness, I don't know. Maybe humanity. I'm not sure. Pathos? How about all that stuff? Sure. All right. So that last person to see them alive was a man named Adolf Sutro. And he met them at the river as well as he said there were a lot of people around and he was an adventurous guy. And I think he saw this rain in the face boat and said, oh, Daddy, I got to take a ride in that thing. That thing is crazy. It's a direct quote. Yeah. And they said, sure, man, jump on in. So he actually rode along for a day, which was the plan. He wasn't like, I'm going to finish the trip with you. He said, Why don't you just take me down for a day and then I'll hike out at Hermit Creek? And that's what they did. But he spent a full day with them and then disembarked and basically that was it. He was the last person to ever see them. Yeah. And he took a photo of them, I guess, before they disembarked. And that's the last known photo of them. And he's the eyewitness that Doc Marston interviewed 30 years later who supposedly said that they were talking about writing a book, which is not necessarily in dispute. Right. But by that point, they may have been like, man, we should totally write a book about this. Yeah, exactly. They would have met a lot of people who would have said, you'll be the first woman who's ever run this river. And there's nothing to say that they set out to do that. But of course they could have thought of it along the way. Right. So the ultimate plan was to eventually finish up in Needles, California, on December 9. Of course, they did not show. And immediately Glenn's dad, Roland, which was, I guess Glenn was a junior, so that was his middle name. Or maybe not, but that was his middle name. Roland gets worried and immediately goes to Las Vegas thinking, something's wrong here because I know my son and he would have been where he said he was going to be unless something was up. Yeah, just immediately. He didn't sit around and wait to see if maybe a couple of days. He immediately left for Las Vegas to basically set up a telegraph campaign to get help to try to find his boy and his daughter in law. Right. Yeah. I mean, it must have been such a lonely proposition back then to try and wrangle and get the word out. It was just so limited with the press and everything he did, though there were multiple river parties. They were all looking very soon. He hired, very smartly, a Native American tracker or more than one, to search the rim. And somehow he had a connection with the government, or at least earned one because Dwight Davis, the Secretary of War, convinced him to get military planes looking out. From what I understand, he managed to get a message to Calvin Coolidge, the president, who then directed the secretary to get planes out. That's pretty cool. And these planes that joined the search, it actually worked. They were the first airplanes to ever fly over the Grand Canyon. And they paid off because they actually found the boat from the air. That's how they found it. Yeah. December 19, one of the planes saw the rain in the face and it was kind of snagged in the river. Right in the middle of the river, right at mile 237. And they reported back and said, hey, this thing is not in pieces. It actually looks pretty undisturbed. And immediately rolling. Hyde said, wow, this is great news. They maybe are alive somewhere. So he hits the road, searches out those cold brothers that we already mentioned. He sets up for Peach Springs, Arizona with a plan for them to lead him down there and salvage this boat at mile 225. But this boat was just sitting there, and they decided to use it. Yeah. So the Grand Canyon River people knew of a boat and rather than take a boat hike, a vertical mile hike down to the river makes sense. They went to a boat that they knew was there and fixed it, but it took, like, two days for them to fix it. And I don't think that Mr. Hyde, Glenn's dad, was actually on this expedition. I think he was either at the rim in the village or back in Las Vegas waiting to hear news about it. But they took two days to fix the boat. And I think, like, a full five days after the boat was first spotted, they set out on December 24 to go get it. Yeah. Christmas Eve. I mean, bless the hearts of these people that leave their families on Christmas Eve to go try and find these strangers for this dude. I don't see anything about reward money. There may have been some involved, but they went out on Christmas Eve. Finally, Christmas morning, they come up on their boat, and it sort of had a Merry Celeste vibe going on. And then it was just sitting there in a calm pool. It was not damaged noticeably, except it obviously took a little bit of a beating on the trip. But it was in fine shape and all of their stuff was there, which is really super creepy. Yeah, I mean, like, their food, their clothes, their money, their gun, betsy's diary, which would be important later on. Like all this stuff, it was undisturbed, untouched. The boat was intact and they were nowhere to be found. The search party looked all over for them, shouted for them. They were just not with the boat. Very creepy. And I guess the good news is, even though they didn't find them, is that Rollins still had hope because they were like, hey, they clearly had not left this boat intentionally, right? So they just cut the boat free after they salvaged everything they could from it. And it makes me wonder whatever became of the boat, because this thing was about as sturdy as a boat could be. So I wonder if it floated all the way down to the Pacific and it's just out there somewhere or sunk somewhere in the Pacific decades later. You never know. This is a Glen Hyde built boat, man. It's possible it's still out there floating around. That's true. Isn't that creepy? Should we take a break? Yeah, let's. All right, we'll take a break. We'll come back and talk about the further attempts to locate them and some of the ideas on what may have happened. Hey, Chuck, it's summer, which means school is out, sun's shining, the daylight lasts longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story, isn't there? There sure is. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, you can tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right Media. That's right. Part true crime and part comedy, My Favorite Murder takes you on a journey through small town mysteries and major laughs, all in the same week. That's Right hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark Banter with each other, sharing their favorite true crime tales and explore unique hometown stories from friends and fans alike. And they're both great, and it's a fun show, and you should listen. So listen to new episodes of my favorite murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen. Today, only 45% of high school students feel they are prepared for college or careers. Stride career prep is helping change that. Stride Career Prep lets students take charge of their education and their future. 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And of course, kind of as soon as this thing happens, people start theorizing on what may have happened to them. Yeah, man, the search for these people, especially once airplanes were involved, it was national news. Like, the whole country was keeping up with this. So a lot of people formed opinions about this pretty quickly, especially the river people around the Grand Canyon, too. You know, those river people. A lot of people thought that especially later on, that Glenn had forced Bessie into this. And so he took on this caricature of a brute again, wife beating husband who had either had probably just hit Bessy one time too many and she killed him and then hiked out of the Grand Canyon and took a bus east to start a new life. That was a predominant theory. I think it's still a predominant theory today. Yeah. I mean, there are some weird things have happened over the years. There have been more than one woman have claimed to be Bessy Hyde. Most notably this woman named Georgie White who was very experienced in her life after this period of time. At least very experienced boats person and navigator of wild rivers. She was on the Johnny Carson show. She was in Time and Life magazine. She really made a name for herself. And at one point she claimed to be Bessie Hyde and even had the marriage certificate and her belongings, which is totally weird. It's very weird. And I've seen zero explanation of how she got that or why she got it. The closest thing to an explanation I've seen. And this was found after her death in 1992 among her belongings. So it's not like she's like, I got the wedding certificate. It was like just a mystery within a mystery why this particular lady had this wedding certificate. And they dug a little deeper and found that on her birth certificate she was born Bessie. That was her real name. But later on, Brad did. I compared the two and it was definitely not the same woman. They didn't look alike. Yeah, I looked as many pictures as I could side by side, and I thought, it doesn't quite look like her. But it wasn't so unlike her that it was impossible to me one of the things Denmark put up was that Georgie White was not precisely literate. She wasn't illiterate. She just was not the literate type. She wasn't a poet. And Bessie Hyde was yeah, a poet, and she knew it. I'm fairly literate too. That historian you were talking about, Otis Marston, he thought that there was this at mile 232, a very violent rapid. He said, that's where I think they crashed. And very importantly, I just figured, yeah, they probably crashed or one of those sweeps, because those things were crazy, knocked them off, and they drowned. But why in the world weren't their bodies found? And you dug into Dimmock's book and apparently let me see, how many were there between 1880 and 1935? Some people performed a study. I think it was ten. Well, no, this wasn't a study. These were real drownings. Right. They surveyed real drownings for a study, I think, is what I mean. Okay. There were ten life jacketless drownings between 1880 and 1935, and only three of those bodies were recovered. And these things would go a long way. I think it was an average of, like, 19 and a half miles from where they drowned. Four and a half days later, I think it says 41 and a half days later. Yeah. Denmark's book says 19 and a half miles. Right. And 41 and a half days later. 19 and a half miles down below the point. 41 and a half days later. Right. In like, six point yeah, I know it's tiny, but his point is that, statistically speaking, glenn and Bessie had they drowned at mile marker 232, which we'll talk about in a second, why, that's probably the case when they finally did surface again, it would have been below where the search party stopped looking, but above where later search parties started looking. Yeah. So they would have come up at just the right geography, just the right distance from where they drowned to evade search, and then at just the right time that people would not have been looking for them right then. And he also points out that the winter of 1928 29, there was historically low river flow, and so they may have surfaced, and if they had, the current would have been slow enough that they would have washed ashore in a very remote place and that they would have been picked clean, basically, by the buzzards in the area. And then once the river flowed again very heavily in the spring, their bones would have been scattered. There just wouldn't have been any trace of them whatsoever. Yeah. Which, I mean, initially when I thought about that, I was like, no way they'd pop up. But after hearing that stuff, it's quite likely that it was just a regular disappearance. They drowned and just were never found. Yeah. Dimmock makes a really great case at the end of his book, and he does a really good the humanity of the case has clearly got into it because he and his wife did the same thing in the scowl, they recreated the scout. So he really got into these people's heads or they got into his. The reason why mile 232 is what Brad Dek and then earlier, Doc Martin thinks the place where they died is if you look along the Colorado River, wherever there are rapids, it's because a canyon is emptying like a side river into the Colorado River right there. Right? Yeah. So it pushes the Colorado River up against the canyon wall on one side, and then that's your rapid. That's what you want to shoot because this canyon has been feeding into the Colorado for so many hundreds of thousands or millions of years that it's worn down right there. So it's relatively deep and boulder free. But there are two spots that have rapids on the Colorado River where this isn't the case where the water from an incoming canyon pushes the river up against some very treacherous rocks. One of them is Bedrock Rapids, which is one place where Glenn and Bessie wrecked the one place they did wreck and had to repair their boat for two days. And then the other place is mile 232 rapids, which are called Killer Fangs Falls, and that's mile 232. And they think that they just simply didn't make it. Whether they got thrown over the boat and drowned or one of them got thrown out and the other one jumped in after them that their boat just didn't make it through there, but the boat did just didn't make it with them on it. Yes. Which would to me indicate maybe those sweeps did knock them out. It's entirely possible those things had done it before. Both of them had been knocked out by sweeps during the trip already. Hats off to Mr. Braddock. And if you were listening, sir, what a great piece of investigative journalism. And like you said, when he and his wife made this trip in their own scowl, they had helmets and life jackets and they knew the river, and they had a motorized boat following them. So they had all the safety precautions. And it was still a rough trip. Yeah. He said they were, like, bruised and bloody from those sweeps themselves too. So some of the other weird things that have happened over the years demack interviewed in 1971, these people on a commercial trip, they were sitting around by the campfire, as you do after a long day of boating. And one of the women said that she was Bessie Hyde. And one of the other people said, what did you do with Glenn? Kind of, ha ha. And she said, I killed him. Apparently without looking up, she stabbed him and hiked out to Arizona, then did catch that bus back east, which is a little creepy. And then at one point also, there was a bullet pierced skull found in a garage of a river guide that had passed away. That's Emery Colb. Yeah. And Glenn Hyde. I mean, it seems like a big jump to just say, hey, was that Glenn Hyde all of a sudden? But people did, right? They did, and I think they still do, but I think in 2000. So emery Cole died in 1977. And when they were going through his belongings, his family, they found in a boat that he had stored in his garage, a man skeleton with, like, clothing on and everything still and the skull had a bullet hole in it. So the first thing everyone said was Glenn Hyde. It's like that mystery is one of the big legends of the Grand Canyon. Right. So they figured out it wasn't Glenn Hyde pretty quickly. I think he was a different stature or whatever, but they didn't know who it was. And they think now that it was a victim of suicide from 1933 who was found by a botanist back then. And for some reason, Emery Cole got his hands on the guy's skeleton and kept him in a boat in his garage for all those years. So that's normal, right? I don't know why you would do that. It says a lot about the dude. Maybe he just felt sorry for him because nobody claimed him. Maybe he was a ghoul. I don't know. But it wasn't Glenn Hyde for sure. Yeah. So that's it. It's not like the case is settled. That's a great thing. That's just Brad Democrats opinion. It doesn't necessarily mean that happens. But again, he knows more than anybody. And he's probably right, if you ask me. Yes. This one will never be settled. No. Maybe they might find some bones somewhere one day. Who knows? I don't know, Chuck, but that would be the only thing. Yeah, so that would be something. Or if they found the scowl floating around in the Pacific, be cool. You got anything else? Nothing else. Well, if you want to know more about the disappearance of Glenn and Bessie Hyde, go read sunk without a Sound the Tragic case of Glenn and Bessie Hyde by Brad Dimmock. Right? That's right. And since I said that, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this eulogy for a teacher. This is from Carissa. Hi, guys. Today I found out that the teacher who was a big influence on me in my life long love of learning has passed away over the weekend. It just breaks my heart. She's the reason I listened to you guys, because without her influence, I highly doubt I would have loved school as much and would not enjoy the process of learning as much, which is why I keep coming back to you guys. Jane Mobley was her name. She was my teacher third and fourth grade. And then amazingly, we both changed schools and she ended up being my teacher in the fifth grade. She taught English and history and did things like give us creative writing promos by having us all bring in a crazy shoe and write a story about another student shoe. Weird things like that that are why I love writing to this day. Not only was she an amazing teacher, but also very kind hearted. I grew up quite poor and my mom was a single mom raising my sister and me on her own. When my backpack broke in the fifth grade, my mom did not have any way to buy me a new one. Ms. Mobiley knew my mom's situation and one day before recess asked me to stay behind for a bit. When the other kids left, she told me she was going to pay for a backpack for me with her own money. Not just any old backpack. She bought me the very popular at the time LLB with my own initials and everything. My mom was very grateful for her kindness, as was I. Ms. Mobile passed away January 21 and will be greatly missed by all her students and family. She was very much loved that is from Carissa. And it just seemed like something we should highlight because teachers have a lot of impact on kids and throughout the years I'm sure Ms. Mobile touched very many students like that. So that's just wonderful. That'd be cool to hear from other people with the Ms. Mobile story too, for sure. Well, if you have a Ms. Mobile story, we want to hear it. Actually you can tweet to us at Joshua Clark or at Syskpodcast. You can join us on who is that from Chuck carissa. Thanks a lot, Carissa. You can join us on Facebook.com stuffysheanow. Chuck Bryant. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast athouseuffworks.com and as always, join us at our home on the web stuffyteanow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseworks.com. Hey everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. There's a perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, My Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today. You want your kid eating the best nutrition, right? And by that we mean your dog. Halo Elevate is natural science based nutrition guaranteed to support your dog's top five health needs better than leaving brands? Find Halo Elevate at petco pet supplies plus and select neighborhood pet stores." | |
8340ce24-3b0d-11eb-b411-a792cc720432 | The Science of Cute | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/the-science-of-cute | If you took our advice and looked up baby beavers a few episodes back, you probably found them sooooo cute you couldn’t stand it. Or you just wanted to eat them up, which is weird if you think about it. Friend, prepare for the science on that!
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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | If you took our advice and looked up baby beavers a few episodes back, you probably found them sooooo cute you couldn’t stand it. Or you just wanted to eat them up, which is weird if you think about it. Friend, prepare for the science on that!
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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | Thu, 14 Jan 2021 10:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2021, tm_mon=1, tm_mday=14, tm_hour=10, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=14, tm_isdst=0) | 50920038 | audio/mpeg | "With no fees or minimums on checking and savings accounts. Banking with Capital One is, like, the easiest decision in the history of decisions, kind of like choosing to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast. And with Capital One's top rated app, you can deposit checks and transfer money anytime, time, anywhere, making Capital One an even easier decision that's banking reimagined what's in your wallet terms apply. Capital One NA Member FDIC what if we could change the world one relationship at a time? Don't miss the second season of Force Multiplier, the award winning podcast from iHeartRadio and Salesforce.org, about tackling some of today's biggest challenges, like climate change, education, access, and global health. Listen in is host Barrattunday Thurston connects with impactful organizations like the Trevor Project, Doctors Without Borders and the University of Kentucky. Plus inspiring individuals like Amy Allison and Juan Acosta to discuss ways to maximize our impact. Listen to Force Multiplier on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W. Cute as Button Bryant. There's. Jerry squee. Roland and this is stuff you should know. The podcast. The cute edition. That's right. The science of cute. Yeah, I'm excited about this one. I've been wanting to do it for a while. I remember, like, it was one of the first things you ever said to me when we met in the office how cute you are. Well, no, we were in the break room, and I saw a picture of a baby panda, and I just started to melt. Yeah, and you went, hey, jerk, you ever wonder why you think things are cute? Yeah, I bet there's science behind that. Maybe we should talk about it one day. And look, here we are. What was that, 1213 years ago? Something like that. Yeah. Man, you really responded to that aggression, didn't you? I did. So, Chuck yes? Have you ever heard of Mickey Mouse? I know several mice, but I've never heard of Mickey Mouse. You've only heard of Model Muck. Yes. And Ricky Rouse. Well, let me tell you about Mickey Mouse. He's actually the mascot of a very large entertainment corporation called Disney. They own Walt Disney World. Walt Disneyland. I think ABC owns them. They're affiliated with ESPN. They're very big, but they have this mascot. It's a mouse, and his name is Mickey. That's weird. He's kind of big, especially abroad. But if you look at Mickey today, you think, wow, that's a really cute mouse. It doesn't really look like a mouse. He's black and white, basically, or brownish and black. But also his features are very much not mouse like. But if you were to go back and look at the beginning of Mickey, I think he's from the 1920s. In his earliest cartoons, he looked a lot more mouse, cartoon mouse. But he had pointed features, not nearly as cute but then he fast forward about ten years later by the time 1938 rolls around and he's in something called the Brave Taylor. That was one of his shorts where I think he defeats a giant or something like that. He looks full blown Mickey Mouse, but he looks way cuter. And they had done a few things to him. They had like made his eyes bigger. They had made his features rounder, less pointed. He had big gloves and big shoes now, these kind of plump and oversized features and he had gotten cute. And the scientist, Stephen J. Gould, who really deserves his own episode like Carl Sagan does, just a really interesting dude. He said that Disney and his animators had stumbled upon something that the zoologist and ethologist Conrad Lawrence termed KinC schema. I think I got that right. Right, yeah. kinken schema. Very nice. But years before Conrad Lawrence ever did that, they had just kind of naturally figured out, like, oh, this can be way more appealing if we exaggerate these particular features. And it turns out what they had done is make him literally cuter by the very scientific definition of cuteness. Yeah. So Lorenz was an Austrian scientist and in the 40s came up with this. And this made me feel quite good about myself, actually, looking over this list about physical qualities. And it's not just a person, it can be an animal. As we'll see, a lot of this is animal based. Right. But these things, these traits that would evoke a positive response, a very strong positive response. And they are large head. That's me. High protruding forehead. I've always said you have a five head. If anything, it's average. Large eyes, sort of average. Chubby cheeks. Bingo. Oh, you should make the cheeks make a sonic appearance. Very nice. It's been years. Still as moist as ever. Sorry, everyone. Chevy cheeks, small nose. I have an average nose. Small mouth. And chin. I'd say average. Short, thick, extremities. Actually have sort of skinny legs. I'll carry my weight between my chin and my belt. OK. Plump body shape. Bingo. I am scientifically half cute. You are very cute. I mean, that's definitely not even up for debate. Really? I used to get called cute by the ladies. Not handsome, but cute. I saw that Paul McCartney hated being known as the cute beetle. Probably for the same differences that you just mentioned. Probably. But like what you just said, this list you rattled off, that is Lawrence's Kinkinchema or baby Schema or baby nest, which is basically like if you put all these things together, you have what amounts to what we humans consider cute and you can extrapolate, like you were saying, not just on to babies, but onto other animals and onto cartoon characters. All animals, really. Yeah. You either have these things and you're regarded as cute or you don't and you're not. Exactly. Yeah, that's a really good point. That you can not only have this, you can also lack it, and that modulates our response to whatever that thing is. Yeah. And it's also important to point out that these are guidelines, scientific sort of guidelines and truisms, but not across the board like some people. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And cutenesses, sure, some people might look at a baby, I don't know, just some sort of weird, reptilian thing that has none of these traits and think it's super cute as well. Right? Yeah. It is kind of subjective, but there does seem to be, if not universal, widely tapped into sense of what's cute and what's not. You know what I mean? Yeah. So let me rephrase that. The person that thinks the baby lizard that has none of these traits is cute, they probably also think the panda is cute. Right. You know what I'm saying? Right. Yeah. They're probably not disgusted or just totally turned off by the panda. Look at that dirty, ugly baby kitten. Yeah. So Lorenz was he compiled this list based on his observations, and I guess from what I read, this whole study of cuteness is pretty young as far as scientific investigation goes. So we're still figuring it out. It's still developing as it goes along. Some of the studies involved are fairly suspect, but there seems to be this kind of general acceptance of Lorenzo's kinken schema, which is that it's so obviously correct that from what I read, some people just haven't even investigated, which is good and bad. Lawrence was a behaviorist, and actually, we met him first in our animal imprinting episode, which was a really good one. So he studied that, but he put this all together to study behaviors. And what he was studying is exactly how babies get adult humans, who may not even be their parents, to respond to them in a way that the adult wants to take care of that baby. And what he came up with was this Kinkin schema cuteness, what he said unlocks innate instincts in humans that basically triggers automatic behaviors like, oh, I want to make sure that you stay alive, so I'm going to go find you some food, that kind of stuff. Yeah. And it corresponds to helplessness at birth. There's a direct correlation between how cute you look and how little you can get by on your own. In the animal kingdom, most mammals are born very small, very helpless, many months, sometimes weeks, sometimes months, sometimes years of care before they can go off and kind of do their own thing. That's called altricial. What to take to being born helpless. You're altricial. Yeah. So if you're altricial, you're probably almost 100% more cute than an animal that is born that can kind of run right out and do things on their own. Probably not as cute. That's precocial altricial and precocial. Right. The thing is, if you step back, it's just so easy to just overlook this. And if you really start to think about this cuteness has been this adaptive, I guess, evolutionary trait that's just been hiding in plain sight until Lorenz really put his finger on it. But if you step back and think about it, there's no reason that a baby has in and of itself to evoke a response in a human, even its parents, to want to take care of it. But it needs that because it is an altricial species. Humans are an altricial species big time. They'll just die out if you don't take care of a baby. And if enough babies die out, eventually humanity dies out, the species dies out. So it's an adaptation to make somebody want to take care of you. And that is what Lorenz figured out. That cuteness is that trigger that we find babies cute and it makes us want to take care of them. And that is one of the most mind blowing things I know. Yeah. I mean, if you look at human babies, human babies are born pretty early in their development. Like, if all things being equal, human babies should probably be born six months later than they are. Yeah, but they're not. Human babies come out very early. They come out before their little fontanelles are even formed. They need a lot of care and they're born that like human babies are small so they can fit out of the birth canal. Their little noses are cartilage so they don't get broken on the way out. Like, babies should have larger heads and should have like that should but you know what I'm saying? Fully formed, like strong noses. But they wouldn't be able to come out of a lady if that was the case. Yeah, because our brains have developed to be so big and our craniums have developed in response to that, that we're evolutionarily speaking or developmentally speaking, we're under developed when we're born, even though we would have been born at like, a normal gestation period for a human compared to other species, it's like this kid is out a little. This kid isn't baked fully, you know what I'm saying? And so that really makes human babies even among other mammals that are altricial super dependent on caregivers to make sure that it survives. Yeah. So, like, a human baby's head is really large compared to their body. And these are some of the cuteness traits that we mentioned early on. Their eyes, your eyes are really grow. Your eyes are about the same size. I didn't know that, did you? Yeah. That's why when you look at some babies and you're like, look how huge their eyes are. Yeah. It's just because they're on a little tiny face, it makes sense. But I just had never known that you're born with your eyes basically the size that they're going to be when you grow up. I think if you really work them out, they can beef up a little bit, though. Okay, blinking we mentioned those tiny little noses, super cute and very bendy. They're little baby cheeks and everything is soft, so you can get out of that birth canal and formula and mother's milk keep you kind of chunky and full. Yeah. Nobody's going to put a baby on a diet. No. Good Lord. The skin is very loose and soft, so if you go to a big gross spurt, it doesn't split open. Sound gross? It does. And then the way babies move, it's just very cute. Babies are awkward and they're clumsy and they don't have the definition to manipulate these muscle groups very well yet. Yeah. And it's awkward and gawky and super cute. All of this stuff together is cute to us. And it raises the question, like, did babies evolve? Human babies evolve to fit our definition of cute? No. Or did our definition actually, I've seen both. Oh, really? I've seen both. So it makes sense that our definition of what's cute and what we respond to is cute would be based on the average human baby. But you can also take an average human baby and tweak digitally a picture of a baby and tweak it to maximum cuteness. And so there's this other idea that, okay, maybe originally our idea of cuteness was based on baby features, but the cutest babies would logically get the most response and would be the most careful yeah. And would be the most likely to survive and thrive and go on to reproduce. So it is entirely possible that we as a species have gotten cuter over the eons because of selection for the cutest babies. Well, and that's been critical to our survival. When you see something like that, when you see a baby chick, your instinct is to pick it up and cradle it and make sure that a tree branch doesn't fall on it. Right. And it's the same goes for babies. Yeah. Because they share a lot of the same similarities, the same king schema. I wish that Ken wasn't in there. I wish it was just Kin den schema. We'll call it that then. I don't want to get things wrong all the time. We do it's usually not purposely. Okay. But that same set of traits can apply to other animals. It was like you were saying, you know, animals that fall into that set of traits appear cute to us, and we want to save them, we want to take care of them. Like, a little baby giraffe has huge eyes. Its features are kind of small compared to a larger adult draft, which even adult drafts are awfully cute. But one of the things that a baby giraffe is going to get you with is hobbling around, trying to stand up at first, and they hit you with those little shaky legs. Look out. Yeah. And that reminds us, or reminds some very ancient part of our brain of a human infant, like developing its motor skills so it seems like it's not like our brains are confused. Like, you're not looking at a baby giraffe. Like, look at that baby human. I love it. It triggers the same part of the brain that seeing a human infant does because of that same set of characteristics. Yeah, like, there was a study I found on mental floss from 2009, where scientists reported that people in the study that viewed really cute images of puppies and kittens perform better in the game of Operation, in the kids game than people who saw pictures of grownup dogs and cats. So it just innately triggers this care response. It's really interesting. Yeah. And so Lorenz called that innate releasers that you see a cute baby, and the cuteness acts as an innate releaser, which triggers a set of inborn instincts in every human to take care of that baby. And that apparently hasn't necessarily borne out, but there's an increasing amount of documentation about how seeing something cute affects the brain, and I propose that we take a commercial break and then come back and talk about that afterward. Agreed. We'll be right back. It's 2022. When things look different, like doctors visits, for example. Sometimes you don't have to go into a doctor's office to be treated for nonemergency situations, like a sinus, infection, or allergy. And that's why teladoc gives you the chance to connect with board certified physicians right from your home via phone or video. That's right. Doctors are standing by. Twenty four seven. So you can schedule a visit according to your schedule. You can see for yourself why teledoc is ranked number one by JD Power and Telehealth Satisfaction with Directtoconsumer providers. Teladoc is available through most major health plans and many employers. But even if you're not covered by insurance, everyone has access to use teletock. That's right. If you want to check it out, download the app today or visit teletoc. comStuff to register or schedule a visit today. That's Teladoc.com slash stuff for JD Power 2021 Award information, visit JDPower comAWARDS these days, you use your personal info to do just about everything, especially when you're online. And guess what? With all that info just floating around out there, it can make the Internet a practical gold mine for identity thieves. And stealing your identity, it turns out, can be dangerously easy. Which is not good. But now it's easy to protect yourself with LifeLock by Norton yes, LifeLock monitors your info and alerts you to potential identity threats. And if you are a victim of identity theft, a dedicated US based restoration specialist will work to fix it. Identity thefts have had it easy for far too long. Now, finally, it's your turn. Just remember, no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. But everyone can save up to 25% off their first year by going to Lifelock.com stuff. That's Lifelock.com stuff for 25% off your first year. LifeLock identity Theft protection starts here. I think I said commercial break. Sure. Jeez. Nine out of ten in the survey. It's like an after school special all of a sudden. So I think before we dive into what you're talking about, I do want to mention the wolf puppy thing. I thought it was pretty interesting, is that there is an example of a co evolved trait with the human brain that triggers that cuteness response. When you look at wolves, wild wolves, apparently, and these were predoz, basically, right? They don't have this muscle called the here we go with some Latin, I guess. Levator anguli, oculi medialis. You just made a demon up here. Oh, my God. This muscle they don't have in their eyebrows. And apparently that is the muscle that can make what we think of as puppy dog eyes. Dogs that came later did evolve that muscle and then were bred for it because it made people melt inside. So that's why wolves, which is interesting, like wolves have that sort of scowl and they can't help it. But then I looked at wolf puppy pictures, and it's pretty cute, but maybe it's not in the eyes, I don't know. Yes, I don't know what it is either, but I think that raises a really good question that also took kind of points out, like, this research is still very young and there's contradictory information coming in, and a lot of it is just based on intuition and that kind of thing. But like you said, there are people walking around who think, like, that baby lizard is super cute. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's not entirely universal. And maybe those wolf puppies have some other traits that have nothing to do with the eyes that are hijacking your brain. The point that stands out to me is that caregiving instinct that Lorenz pointed out, or whatever weird brain pathway we have that's triggered by seeing something cute is that it extends beyond humans. And I think that kind of that makes humanity as a species, like, that much greater. In my opinion, that caregiving impulse can extend beyond humans. That explains pets right there. I don't think we would have pets if that wasn't true. Yeah, I mean, we'd have like guard dogs or something still, but not a pet. They would be German shepherds. There'd be nothing, but they'd all be mean as snakes. And we probably have snakes, too, that rode the German Shepherds, and they still wouldn't be pets. Yeah, baby snakes, not so cute. There's also that weird thing where something is so ugly it's cute as a young thing. Okay, so that's a Japanese term. We'll talk about kauai later, but there's something called chemo kauai, which is called gross cute. Oh, interesting. Yeah, they've got it. They're like the Germans, but further east, they have, like, a name and idea for everything. All right, we'll put a pin in that because we did promise the science of cute. So we're going to have to look at the brain and actually what's going on there. And they've done that, of course. They've put people in the Wonder machine and they have shown people pictures of baby faces to see what lights up. And when that happens, you get a really strong immediate response in what's called the orbitofrontal cortex, which is where we regulate our emotions and our pleasure. And it's a really fast response, one 7th of a second. It doesn't take long. When you see that baby or that puppy or whatever, it doesn't take you long to immediately think, I need to care for that thing and hold that thing. Yeah. Because that orbital frontal cortex apparently has something to do with the reward system. So your attention is captured very quickly and you get a little burst of pleasure from seeing that cute baby. And then there's another thing too that came out of that 2009 study using Operation that all of a sudden your attention is very much focused and you can complete tasks much better or at least remarkably better than you could without seeing something cute. So it really does suggest we have this inborn pathway to respond to something cute in a pleasurable way with warm feelings that trigger an ability, a greater, more focused ability to do something like, for example, care for or feed a baby. That kind of thing that seems to be borne out, like Lauren's innate releaser seems to be being discovered by neurology right now. Which is interesting though, because caring for a baby is not, in my experience, something you need that kind of focus for. It's not like putting together a little model house with tiny pieces of furniture. It's just like keep this thing alive. Right, but maybe that's like rather than being like, I think I'd rather rake the lawn instead. Right. And just stop feeding the baby to rake leaves. You know what I'm saying? Your attention to the task at hand is a little more focused so you're less distracted. Yeah, that's the kind of focus sure. Yes. Luckily, it doesn't take much brains because there's a lot of nonsmart parents out there. That is true. So in that response, that speedy response in the orbital frontal cortex, when you see that baby, men and women both have that same spike. But I think women report stronger caregiving, which they chalk up to just gender roles, basically and not necessarily anything to do with the brain itself. Yeah. Because the same areas light up for men and women, I guess, to the same degree. It's just self reported is different. Right, right. And then apparently also, this is not just parents who experience this like a human being or a typical human being will experience this. Yeah. That's the thing where as an adoptive parent, my daughter is not my seed. I have nothing to base it on. But I can't imagine a stronger connection or a stronger instinct to caregive. Totally. And so it's an important trait, clearly, because you've seen movies where people find, like, a baby abandoned by the dumpster and that you run out. And I suppose some people might just say, call it in and say, hey, there's a baby over here. I'm not going near it. But a human's inclination is to run over and pick that baby up totally. And wrap it up in something warm and then maybe call the cops or whatever. Right. And like you said, run over there like an urgent thing that your brain would just be like, get over there right now. Helpless thing out there by a dumpster. Let's go get it. Yeah. That apparently would come probably more from the baby's cry, which I guess also ignites, like, the same kind of pathway as cuteness does, but it's slightly different. There's not necessarily a reward. It's more like urgency. And they call that a biological siren, which would get you over there really quickly. But it's not necessarily because you thought about how cute the baby is in those swaddling clothes. Right. Sound is definitely important. Like that same study, if you hear babies laughter or even the smell of a baby, your brain lights up in the same way. Yeah. So, like, we're presented with the entire cute package of everything that's great about babies. I sound, smell. They are really deeply manipulative, I think is what you're meant to take away from this episode. They are just tiny little monsters. They are saying, like, take care of me for 18 years. That's right. And possibly beyond if I'm Gen X. Exactly. Was it Gen X or Millennials? I don't know. I feel like there were plenty of Gen Xers that lived in the basement. You're totally right. Or maybe that's every generation, but we weren't coddled as much. Oh, boy, you're going to get us canceled. Yeah. So let's move on from that. Oh, wait, here's another thing. And this is the saddest finding ever. Okay. Yeah. When they did this study, that brain activity was diminished when they were shown baby faces that had some sort of facial disruption, like a cleft palette. And that is really one of the saddest things you can imagine hearing. Yeah. Because that would account for what I was talking about earlier, about how cuteness is selected for that. There's this by no one's fault of their own, but just through the evolutionary process of these neural connections that were born that are ready to make, like wanting to respond to something cute. If you're presented with something that doesn't quite line up with that Kinkin schema, that baby is going to have a much harder time getting that same response from somebody than just a traditionally cute baby. Well, it's brutal. It's extraordinarily sad. I think we need to do an episode on cleft palates, too. That stood out to me that we haven't done that yet. Yeah. Or even worse, in ancient times, those babies would be walked out to the woods and left. Yeah, for sure. Carl Lawrence apparently said that the cupidol or CuPy mayonnaise. So the doll that that's based on, if you take a look at his face, in Lawrence's opinion, that was the maximum exaggeration that you could reach of Kinkin schema before violating it. And then afterwards, what was beyond it was not coined at the time, but what he was talking about was basically an uncanny valley. Your brain would start to be like, wait, there's something is somewhat out of order here. So it's weird. Apparently there's a set, a package of traits that make up what is considered cute and straying outside of that just kind of violates it in some weird way. It violates, like, this pathway that we seem to be pre programmed to have. I didn't know mayonnaise was going to make an appearance. I did, because I saw the cutie thing, but before that, I had no idea either. So cuteness is going to activate other parts of the brain. It's just not that super speedy response that you get in the orbito frontal cortex. Right. So if you're a parent and you have a brain. You're going to undergo a really kind of slow change as you parent and as you take care of that baby and bond with that baby as they grow into infancy. You're going to still have that trigger of cuteness. But it's just going to be a slower response and more complex as far as your actual brain activity goes. And supposedly that coevolved with the cuteness of a baby, like a newborn baby is just but you look at a baby six months, the same baby. Yeah. You have to admit it's pretty infrequent for a baby to be cute right out of the womb. Yeah. I mean, generally they're little alien lizard type creatures, sure. But wait six months and that same baby is going to look awfully cute. Yeah. Right. Within that six months, you're going to have developed more sophisticated responses, caretaking responses to that baby's cuteness. It's pretty interesting that they both start to gel around the same time. The babies start to hit peak cuteness and the caregiving stuff becomes more and more sophisticated. It goes from, I need to keep this baby alive, to what college is this baby, I'm going to get this baby through college, kind of stuff. You start thinking about that. Right. And that sort of brings back what we talked about earlier as that empathetic, compassionate response when it's not even your child or when it's not even from the same species. Right. Like you were saying, people tend to rate the species that are most altricial as the cutest because they need the most help. So that pathway can be hijacked by human babies and other species as well, and by people who are trying to sell you stuff, as we'll see. That's very true. Yes. James, look at that. All right, we're going to take. A break and talk about cute aggression, something that we're pretty familiar with. Right after this. It's 2022 and things look different. Like doctors visits, for example. Sometimes you don't have to go into a doctor's office to be treated for nonemergency situations, like a sinus, infection or allergy. And that's why Teladoc gives you the chance to connect with board certified physicians right from your home via phone or video. That's right, doctors are standing by twenty four seven. So you can schedule a visit according to your schedule. You can see for yourself why teladoc is ranked number one by JD Power and telehealth satisfaction with direct consumer providers. Teladoc is available through most major health plans and many employers. But even if you're not covered by insurance, everyone has access to use teladoc. That's right. If you want to check it out, download the app today or visit teladoc. comStuff to register or schedule a visit today. That's teladoc. comStuff for JDPower 2021 Award information, visit JDPower comAWARDS. These days, you use your personal info to do just about everything. Especially when you're online. And guess what? With all that info just floating around out there, it can make the Internet a practical gold mine for identity thieves. And stealing your identity, it turns out, can be dangerously easy. Which is not good. But now it's easy to protect yourself with LifeLock by Norton yes, LifeLock monitors your info and alerts you to potential identity threats. And if you are a victim of identity theft, a dedicated US based restoration specialist will work to fix it. Identity thefts have had it easy for far too long. Now, finally, it's your turn. Just remember, no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. But everyone can save up to 25% off their first year by going to LifeLock. comStuff. That's Lifelock.com stuff for 25% off your first year. LifeLock identity theft protection starts here. Smartphones are getting smarter, faster, and that might freak some of you out. It's hard to keep up. Trust me, I'm lying when I say I know what LTE means. So let's simplify wireless together. Just fast, reliable, secure at and T. That's more surprising than making the league at 5ft. To reach new heights, you need the type of network that can keep up with you, with no hoops to jump through. Just fast 5G speeds for downloading and reduce lag. Plus 24/7 network protection with automatic fraud call blocking with at and T Active armor. So join at and T and discover the power of 5G through our 5G compatible devices. At and T download of apps required. Five G may not be available in your area. For coverage details, see ATC. Comfiveg for you, visit www.att.com. Call protect for details. Alright, so I've talked before in the past about my wife Emily, and when she sees puppies and babies and other cute little things, she says stuff like, I want to punch that baby in the face. I want to squeeze the life out of it. I want to eat that puppy. Like, some things that sound genuinely horrific, maybe not, I want to punch that baby in the face. I've seen that somewhere. But it's a thing. And it's not just her. It's an actual thing. It's called cute aggression. When you see something and you say, you know, I want to put that puppy on a plate and eat it, which is, like you said, it's very weird when you step back and think about it. And actually, it's a very recent investigation. I think 2013 is the earliest I saw. And one of the people who are leading the charge into studying cute aggression is a Clemson psychologist named Oriana Aragon. And she and some of her colleagues have really kind of are establishing this field of cute aggression. And the reason why Aragon is a pretty good social psychologist to be investigating this is because her specialty is diamorphous expressions, which is contradictory emotional indicators that don't really seem to go together, but do because it's just so common, like tears of joy or nervous laughter, that kind of thing. Yeah, that's a big one. And it seems that cute aggression kind of falls under that same umbrella. Yeah. And it's interesting because you say, sure, great. Cute aggression. We've got a name for it. That doesn't really explain it, though. No. And it's explained kind of like nervous laughter or tears of joy. It may be a way of regulating something that's just too overwhelming emotionally. So when they study cute aggression, they show people the cutest pictures of the cutest things, see how the brain responds. And people who have the really biggest cute, aggressive response, their brains are lighting up, but your reward system is also lighting up at the same time. Right, but it's like an overwhelming reward response. Like, it's intolerable. And so the idea is that your brain brings you down from that by implementing, like, not complimentary. What's the opposite of complimentary? You're a big jerk. That kind of emotion, like anger or aggression or hostility or something like that to balance it out and to bring you back down, because it makes sense that if you were just sitting there experiencing overwhelming cute overload, you might not ever get around to feeding that baby. You might just be sitting there with your tongue hanging outside of your mouth. Drooling. Yeah, it's interesting because a lot of times and I've heard a lot of other people say this, but Emily will say, like, I just want to squeeze that baby. And that's followed up with, I can't even take it. I just can't even take it with this cuteness that's literally true. Like, your brain can't even take it. I thought it was cute. Aragon came up with a way to measure cute aggression by using bubble wrap. Yeah, I didn't quite understand this. She would give bubble wrap to people and show them different pictures. And the pictures that rated the highest in cuteness Evoked led to the largest number of bubbles pop. So the idea is if you see something cute pop bubbles or just like, here, hold this, and you just find yourself popping them. I don't know. That I don't know, actually, to tell you the truth. Yeah. I think it's meant to be like an unconscious thing. Okay. Like, you're not supposed to be like, well, this is an 80 bubble kitty. Sure. Nothing like that, where it's just like you look down, you're like, oh, my God, there's no more bubbles left. That cat was so cute kind of thing. Okay. Makes sense. I saw another explanation for acute aggression in that it's a response to a frustrated desire for caregiving. So where you want to go punch that baby in the face, but, you know, you'll spend a significant amount of time in jail if you actually do that. Right. That's where that would come out. You can't do that. It's not your baby to go snuggle and cuddle and take care of. You can't eat a puppy. You have to do it from afar. Exactly. So you have to do it from afar. So it comes out in this mixture of cute response and aggression or aggressive words or that kind of thing. Well, and that also kind of dovetails with the cute sadness, which is, I guess Aragon coined that term as well, is where you see a puppy in a window and you go, oh, no, or make a frowny face. That's when you see a lot when you see something really cute. And her theory is that kind of like what you're just saying, like, that puppy is in the crate at the adoption place and you can't get to it. Or it's just walking down the street with somebody and you're driving your car and you can't get to it. So you're expressing a kind of frustration that you can't get out of the car and squeeze the puppy. Right. So you have to squeeze your sphincter instead. But I guess it comes out as disappointment, though. Yeah. And it would seem to be a response to frustrated attempts at caregiving or frustrated desire to caregive, because you see something cute and your caregiving instinct is triggered, or whatever you want to call it. If you don't agree with instinct, but there's nothing you can do about it because you're driving, and that things going the other way, so you can't do anything to take care of it. So you have to get that out somehow. And it seems like anger and aggression is a good way for it to make it subside quickly. Yeah. But again, I really want to point out here, this is intuitive stuff. Sure. This is not stuff where it's like this study backs this up. In this study backs this up. From what I've seen, every single study in cuteness and cute aggression involves about 150 college undergrads as your study population and they're hopping bubble wrap and stuff like that. It's still very early in its research, but it does make a lot of sense. But that doesn't necessarily mean that's accurate. And take that with a grain of salt, whatever that means. I'm not knocking the study. But it's also let's be honest, it's not the most important thing in the world. No, it's interesting to understand. It makes for good reading on an Internet article. Yeah, but it's not solving a problem. You know what I'm saying? I suddenly feel like we're standing in the middle of a vast glass house and we have rocks in our hands right now. Oh, boy. I think it's fun to talk about. This is perfect podcast spotter, for sure. But I'm curious if this could be applied at all. I don't know. I think maybe it's just one of those things where it's like, now we understand that it's documented, it's understood, so we understand humans a little more. Maybe it'll open some door to some other thing that we realize was connected. But I totally agree with what you're saying. Yeah, but I think you've pulled me in the other direction. Nobel Prize. Oh, good. Just send it their way. Okay. So you mentioned earlier about using the stuff to sell things, and that is for sure true. You look at any Pixar or Disney cartoon or anime, certainly you're going to see round babies and you're going to see huge eyes. When you see pamphlets that are trying to sell stuff or try to get you to donate to an animal cause or a children's foundation, they're probably going to put a baby or a puppy on that cover that has the biggest roundest face and eyes. It's manipulative, but used for good generally. Yeah, totally. It's almost like using music in the background of an ad purposefully hijacking. A very ancient neural pathway that basically all humans have to get an emotional response out of you. A positive emotional response. And it might have nothing to do with what they're trying to sell, but you're now associating a pleasurable warm feeling with Mr. Sparkle dishwashing detergent. Yeah. When really it's just a joint venture of Matsamura Fishworks and Tamara Heavy manufacturing concern, like when they've done studies on anti smoking campaigns for teenagers and they respond more to cartoon characters that are cute, which sounds a lot like Joe Camel if you ask me. It's like the opposite of that. That's true. But it does make sense. Like a teenage might respond to a list here is like a penguin and a jacket or a polar bear than some adult human, like pointing their finger at you. Yeah, like John Hausman. Can you imagine through the teens don't smoke. Right. So yeah, it also makes you think like since so many cute toys or so many toys are cute when you're buying like a plush animal, are you responding almost in an insane way to your cute caregiving response just being manipulated and like, you're going to take that stuffed animal home and give it care because it's just been activated in you. That seems to be what's going on when you buy like a toy like that. I think so. That's interesting because then if you see people walking around like that, you're like, oh, well, you've just been manipulated, congratulations kind of thing. Yeah, but also you can make the case too. And I read a guy, something by a guy named Gary Genosco, who is the Canada Research Chair in Technoculture at Lakehead University in Thunder Bay, Ontario. And he argues that same thing that commodification of cute, say, like by Disney. He also argues that National Geographic magazine was big into getting people involved in caring about animals in nature. They really use cuteness, especially in like the guess that it forms our understanding of things in a very specific way, which is, this thing is cute. It's like a toy to me. I want to pick it up and carry it around and love it and hug on it. But in doing that, you really miss out on a lot of the individual personality of whatever that animal is. You trade respect for infanilism. Right? Yeah. And that really stood out to me because I have to remind myself that momo is like this sentient individual entity who deserves respect and to be treated with respect. And I just picked up anytime she looks at me a certain way and it sets off my cuteness response. Right. Like, I've really had to grapple with that. And luckily Yuumi is really aware of that because she's always been a very small person and she used to get picked up all the time. So she identifies with Momo on that level. And it's been like, really an exercise in restraint. Sometimes it's just be like, no, I've just got to treat Momo like she doesn't want to be picked up right now, kind of thing. Yeah, but I thought Janaska really made a good point that we miss a lot of, like, what makes an animal an animal in favor of just seeing it as something cute and kind of a plaything in a way. Yeah. And there is no clear reminder that I've always had dogs and multiple dogs and love dogs. But when you see a dog, like go after a squirrel and catch it and eat it or something, these are the reminders that these are animals. Like the same cute dog will also eat poop out of its butt if it could, right. Or eat your face if you died on the couch and it was locked in the house in a second. Sure. So we probably shouldn't finish until we talk about Hawaii culture. Yeah. This is the Japanese culture that is well, this is the best, maybe the greatest pop culture expression of cute. You think pikachu think like pop singers dressed as little sort of pigtailed schoolgirls. It's a very big trend in Japan. It's huge. Like, everybody has a cute mascot. Hello Kitties everywhere. It's just enormous. And apparently it kind of grew and evolved and morphed over time, starting with this student protest movement in the 60s, where the Japanese kids just decided they didn't want to go to class anymore. They sat around and read manga comic books instead and kind of regressed back to childhood. And then that kind of developed in the 70s into a trend for cutesy, bubbly handwriting that led to Hello Kitty. And then, weirdly, it also made an appearance as what is it? Boris? Or women, which is very childlike women who adopted this kind of demeanor to, number one, cut off any sense of threat that they presented when they entered the workforce, but also to kind of keep unwanted advances from their male colleagues at bay. Two, they entered the workforce as if they were young kids, little girls, giggly and all that kind of stuff. And this is a persona that they adopted that eventually became this trend, this cuteness trend that's, like everywhere in Japan. I never thought about the bubble letters. That's so interesting. Yeah, because I've always sort of wondered why elementary school girls, it seems like, would write in those big, juicy, round letters. It makes sense. It does. But that was apparently where Hawaii culture came from originally. It was a handwriting thing. Interesting. Yeah. I was curious here at the end, has science proven what the cutest animals are? Yeah. And I did find something from List Verse and Jonathan Cantor. The top ten cutest animals in the world according to science. But I see nothing in the article about how science proved this. Literally nothing. But I figured I'd read it just for funsies. Number ten is most baby Mammals. Okay. Number nine is the slow loris. You ever see those things? No. You should look at some of these. In fact, I'm going to go ahead and text you number one. Okay. Please. Right now? Because I guess I'll just send it to you and Jerry, since she's on our most recent thread. She'll be like, what the heck is this? All right, coming your way. So number eight is the Meerkat, which I think Miracle is a little sinister, personally. Yeah, I could see that. Because they got the bandit masks on. Yeah. Number seven is the Koala. That's what this loris looks like. No, that's not a loris that I sent you. Are you looking at a loris? What? Is this what I sent you? Yeah, we'll just put a pin in it's. Number one. Okay. Yeah, I can see that. Number six is the flapjack and dumbo octopode. Okay. Piglets. Number five, the Fennec fox. Number four, that's the fox with those huge ears. Okay. To make those great sounds. Sure. The Red Pandas. Number three the panda bear. The white Panda. Black and white pandas. Nowhere on this list. Weird. This guy is way off. This must have been a list from Jimmy Science, his roommate. According to Jimmy Science? Yeah. I think you mean James B. Science. Okay. Number two is sea otters. And then number one, I don't know how I've lived my whole life without knowing that this thing existed, but the quoka quokka. Oh, my God. From Australia. It's a small marsupial, same family as a kangaroo, apparently, in southwestern Australia. And that picture I sent you, my friend, just Google smiling quoka and you'll see this one picture of this quoka literally jumping hands out, smiling at the camera lens. It's like, Give me a hug. Like, give me a hug. They said it's because they look like they're smiling. Obviously, right is one of the big reasons. But almost every picture you look at a quoka, it's got this little smile. It's unbelievable. Hey. I have to say, based on the screenshot, you need to charge your phone soon. Yeah. And that was even earlier. Oh, God. I get that same stress because I'm generally at least 50% guy. Yeah. And so when I see people do screenshots, if it has that red yeah. Oh, boy. I know. I can't even take it. So to finish up, Chuck, the converse of what you're talking about, the cutest animals, the fact that they exist also kind of implies that there are non cute animals that exist and they're less likely to get our attention. And as a result, there is a kind of tongue in cheek. But I also get the impression kind of serious group called the Ugly Animal Preservation Society, whose mascot is the Blobfish, which makes a lot of sense. And their slogan is, we can all be pandas. Oh, I love that. Yeah. So they're looking out for the ugly animals that we're going to wipe out because they're not cute. Well, I know that is a big deal when it comes to conservation is that people conservations have a much harder time getting money and stuff. And we talked about it in our zoos episode. That's why they lead with giraffes and elephants and stuff like that. Was that the episode? I know we talked about it before and they were like, look, man, just leave us alone. This is the important stuff because it saves the other stuff. Yeah, exactly. Poisoning that blobfish. Oh, man. Yeah. Ugly. Cute, maybe. Yeah. Chemo kauai. If Kauai sounds familiar, that's probably because you heard it at the very beginning of the Gwen Stefani song Holoback Girl. Oh, really? Where she sees a bunch of harajuku girls in Japan and goes, Kauai. Nice. Yeah. That blobfish looks like it's constantly saying, okay. I know they should have called it the Eorfish. The Blobfish definitely works too well since we have wrapped it up with the old blobfish. If you want to know more about the science of cute, just start looking at cute pictures of the Kuoca. Sure. That's a great place to start. And since Chuck said sure, that means it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this. I'm getting called out here and it's something I haven't thought about. I got called out by a couple of people for different reasons for saying this phrase. Unless you live under a rock, you know, blank. One person said, hey, that just makes me feel dumb because I didn't know about one of these things. Sure, I think that's the point, right? That's your intent. I don't want to make anyone feel bad, but this is a different kind of response and well worth reading. Hey guys. Making my way through a backlog log of episodes and I noticed the thing that seems to pop up from time to time. In your descriptions of popular culture and products like hang gliding, Etch a Sketch and Rubik's Cube. You make comments like and if you don't know what one of these is or looks like, get out from under your rock and go look up a picture. Someone who has been blind since birth. Though my problem isn't that I've been living under a rock, but rather the pictures to me are worth zero words got me good. I grew up in the everyone had a Rubik's Cube and I played with my fair share of them, even though I couldn't solve them. For many things in life. Though if I haven't physically touched it or had it described to me, I only have the faintest idea of what it looks like. In fact, I was a music education major in college and it wasn't until my sophomore year at age 19 that I touched a brass instrument for the very first time. The French horn still fascinates me. I've enjoyed listening to your show for years and I've learned lots of visual information from you, from what giraffes look like to fashion choices of punk rockers. I wanted to make you aware of this though. You can help people who can't look at pictures. Whether we're blind or whether we're on the road driving in a truck, we don't want to pull out our phones to look at pictures. Thanks for years of learning and laughter. Appreciate the work. Warmly, Ryan from Minneapolis. And Ryan, I have nothing to say but great point and I'll do better. Very nice, Chuck. I don't think there's anything else you can say. You know why? Because you're a good person and not a jerk. That's right. And now I will try and describe things to the best of my ability, which might not be great, but I think you did a good job with the Kawaka description. Smiling. Wrote it. Yeah, it looks like it's smiling. That's all you need to know. Yeah, that's great. Well, if you want to take Chuck or me to task, there's not a lot of sport in that, but if you want to do it anyway, that's fine. You can send it to us via email, wrap it up and send it off to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is the production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, you know you're the best pet mom. When you growl back during playtime, give epic belly rubs and feed them halo holistic made with responsibly sourced ingredients, plus probiotics. For digestive health. Find us at chewy amazonandhalopets.com hey, everybody. If you have extra space or maybe you travel a lot, you should consider hosting on Airbnb. Just think about all that extra income. You could contribute more to your retirement or pay for a big trip. And if the thing that's holding you've is that you're worried about your stuff, well, don't be. Airbnb gives you air cover for host damage protection that's free every time you host. Learn more and host with peace of mind@airbnb.com. Air cover for hosts." | |
Rainbows: Delighting humanity since forever | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/rainbows-delighting-humanity-since-forever | Rainbows seem to defy nature, but they're really pretty simple when it comes down to it. Turns out it's just light reacting to water droplets in the air. But they sure do look cool. Learn all about how rainbows are formed in today's episode. | Rainbows seem to defy nature, but they're really pretty simple when it comes down to it. Turns out it's just light reacting to water droplets in the air. But they sure do look cool. Learn all about how rainbows are formed in today's episode. | Tue, 03 Feb 2015 17:29:50 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2015, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=3, tm_hour=17, tm_min=29, tm_sec=50, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=34, tm_isdst=0) | 28267928 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clarke with Charles W, Chuck Bryant and Jerry Rowland. Have we ever said Jerry's last name mixel? Well, we have now. It's out there. It's on the Internet. Even someone really updated our Wikipedia page. If you look lately, it's robust. It even, says the producer. Jerry Jerome Rowland. How do they know that? I guess I've said it on the podcast before. I am sure that you have. So how are you doing? I'm great, man. Rainbows. As the author points out, they've inspired countless fairy tale songs and legends. Man, I love rainbows. I think rainbows are just fantastic. They're probably the greatest graphic design of all time. I just think rainbows are great. Well, it is funny, too. When you read the different articles, it's kind of corny when they talk about how they delight and astound. But darn it, when you see a rainbow, even as a jaded, cynical adult, there's no way you can't look and just go, oh, that's pretty neat. Yes. At the very least, you'll go, oh, a rainbow. If somebody says, hey, there's a rainbow over there, you're going to look up. And if you doubt a rainbow's ability to astound adults, all you have to do is look up Yosemite Bear's double rainbow video, which I watched today. It's pretty great stuff. All bear vesquez. Yes. That guy's. What does it mean? He's so I know what it means. You're on Peyote. You know, next time someone does see a rainbow and say that, I'm going to test everything and just say so. Not even going to look. All right. See, if they just think I'm dead inside, let's see what happens. I'm curious to see whether you can not look. Of course I'll look. So, Chuck, we're not the first to be delighted and amused by rainbows. It goes back several years, decades, at least. They've been around forever. There is a lot of mythology surrounding them because they're unusual. They don't happen every day, and, well, I guess it depends on where you live. Sure. But it's not necessarily a normal occurrence. No. I found that the philosopher Descartes, Renee Descartes, was the first to describe kind of the modern accurate theory in 1637. Oh, yeah. Nice. He's the first one that's like, hey, wait a minute. There's some refraction going on here. Right? Well, most people usually associate that with Newton. Yeah, well, he's the first one to describe the spectrum. Right? He was. And apparently I saw this cool video by Philip Ball on the Atlantic that basically said that Newton just made up the ROYGBIV spectrum. What do you mean? So the red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet sure is Newton's interpretation of the rainbow. Before that, all sorts of different cultures had different ideas of what made up a rainbow, how many colors there were, what the colors were. And our interpretation of the rainbow spectrum is a Newtonian invention, and a lot of people say it's not seven, it's actually six. Indigo. Not really. There Newton. And apparently Newton was trying to shoehorn the rainbow spectrum into the musical octave. So he's trying to shoehorn music, which has sound wavelengths, with light, which has wavelengths, and making them one in the same. But history has kind of shown, like no, there's six. We'll go with six for the rainbow. So Roy G. Bib, which we learned in school, apparently. I learned in school. You did, too. Yeah, sure. It's just Roy GV. No indigo. Yeah, well, he was busy making his cookies from figs, too, so he had lots of stuff going on. Those are good. Oh, yeah. I can mount some fignut. Yeah, because they're good for you. So you can eat the whole bag in one sitting if you want. Yeah, I never buy them, but if I see them on, like, if you give blood or something, they're on a snack table. That's when I get my face Newton on. Yeah. So Newton wasn't the only one. Before Newton, there was like a whole Celtic legend about the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. There was God saying, marbury after the great flood and promising it would never happen again by showing rainbows come out after rain. Like, it's fine, it's stopping. We're not going to flood the earth again. Of course you can't find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow because you cannot go to the end of a rainbow. Yeah, you can't go under a rainbow. You can't go over a rainbow. And we'll explain all this why in just a second. Sure. But first of all, we have to talk about to get to the bottom of how rainbows work, which to me, I think is awesome. It's one of those things where, okay, this is how it works. We understand it now. Yeah. I love science. Stuff like that baked in science. Yes. Just done. It's not like scientists think this is what's happening, and that's probably true, but that remains to be seen. This is one of those ones where we know how rainbows work, and here's how. But to get to the bottom of rainbows, we have to understand how light works first. Yeah. And I thought this article, even though there was a lot more digging in to do, I thought the shopping cart explanation for basically how light travels was pretty darn good. Fantastic. One reason they say visible spectrum is because the light is moving so fast that you can't see it. And the combination of all those is white light, like the sun is white light, because all those colors are superimposed on one another. Okay. Yeah. But when it hits like a water droplet or something else, it's going to slow down enough. And we'll get to all this to where you can see those individual parts of the spectrum. Right. That shopping cart explanation like you said, it definitely simplifies the whole thing. And it's not quite right, but it does a pretty good job of illustrating the principles that are going on. Yeah. So basically, light is moving at different speeds depending on what kind of medium it's traveling through. So, like I said, when it hits water, it's going to slow down a lot. That's going to change its speed. If you're pushing a shopping cart, the asphalt is the medium. If you push it on the grass, it's going to slow down. That's a new medium. That's a new medium. It's transitioning from one media to another. That's right. And if you hit that grass at an angle and we've probably done this if you were able to steal a shopping cart as a kid, you're pushing your friends around in it. Right. You're hauling through the neighborhood and you hit that grass at an angle and it's going to take a really sharp turn because that front right wheel, let's say, is going to hit the grass. And all of a sudden, really quickly, it's going to be traveling at a much slower speed than the rest of it and my friend is going to tumble out and everyone's going to have a good time. Exactly. Just wear your helmet. So imagine that the shopping cart is a photon of light or a beam of white visible sunlight, and the grass is a prism. Yeah. So the parking lot was air and it was moving through just fine, no problem. But when it hit that prism, it slowed down. Yes. And because it came at an angle, one side of the light hit sooner and it made it turn. And that is called refraction. The bending of light is refraction. Yeah. And in the case of a rainbow, that prism is a raindrop. So this is the simple, quick version. We'll get more detailed. But when it hits that raindrop, it's going to slow down and it's going to bend. Right. So depending on the refractive index, which is how much light bends depending on the wavelength, the wavelength of light, which is another term for color, sure is going to bend at a different angle. So when that visible light, which is all the colors of the visible spectrum combined, hits a prism and it bends, or raindrop, right. It bends at different angles because the wavelengths are different. And so that visible light comes undone into its component wavelengths, which are all the colors of the rainbow, and they spread out, it's called dispersion. Right? Yeah. And that's it, really. But like I said, in this case, we're talking about rain. And because rain is raindrops are all different shapes and sizes, it's not going to be as consistent as, like, a prism might be, but it's going to have the same effect. It's going to hit the raindrop, it's going to slow down, like the wheel digging into the grass of the shopping cart, and it's going to refract, and some of it is going to keep going, some of it is going to bounce back, but the different color is going to bounce at a different angle. And it's all relative to where you are on the ground, like no person, two people see the same rainbow, right? It's all subjective. Right. So when light hits the prism and it bends, like you said, because the different lights have different wavelengths, different colors have different wavelengths. Red has the longest wavelength, so it bends the least. I believe violet has the shortest wavelength, so it bends the most. But again, because these different wavelengths, they bend differently so that the light spreads apart. And when it exits the prism, it bends again and it forms that spectrum of separated light, separated out. And if you notice, we keep saying the word bend. That's why a rainbow is an arc instead of like a right angle, because the light is bending. So, Chuck, we've been kind of teasing this a little bit, but we'll get into exactly how you go from prism to raindrop and hence the rainbow right after this, all right? If you want to see a rainbow or if you're going to see a rainbow, there needs to be three conditions. The sun has got to be behind you. Big one, you're going to have moisture in front of you, right. And the sun must be shining those sun's rays must be shining at 42 degrees of what's called the anti solar point, which is basically where the shadow of your head is on the ground. Okay. So if you can see the shadow of your head, that's going to be that 42 deg anti solar point. Right. So what you do is you put your back directly to the sun, right? Yeah. And then turn 42 degrees, which I guess if there were negative 42 degrees, you'd be turning to the left. So I guess you'd be turning to the right a little bit, about 42 degrees, which you can kind of measure off in your head. It's not quite 45 deg. And if you're looking at rain and the sun is behind you, you're going to see where that 42 deg is, because once you hit that point, there's your rainbow. Yeah. But I mean, you can move your body around and still see the rainbow. I mean, it's where the sun is hitting. The sun's got to be hitting it at 42 deg. I see. Okay, so, Chuck, it doesn't matter then where your head is the raindrops relation to the sun. It needs to be 42 degrees. The sun produced a rainbow. Yeah. The sunshine must be hitting it at 42 degrees. Okay, so let's get back to basics again for a second. When the sunlight hits the raindrop, each individual raindrop is acting like a prism, right? That's right. So that visible white light is hitting a raindrop. It's hitting it at an angle, it's going kaboom into, like, a colored spectrum inside the raindrop, and then it's going to reflect back again, refract again, exiting the raindrops, so it bends again, and it comes back at you. Right. The thing is, when you see a light colored light wavelength from a raindrop, you're not seeing the whole spectrum. You're not seeing millions of little rainbows. You're seeing one big rainbow. That's right. And the reason why is because each individual raindrop, depending on its relation to you and I guess to the sun, is shooting one color at you. That's right. It's shooting all colors at you. But you're only picking up on one color because there's only one color from a raindrop that is angled correctly to you in your line of sight. So that the only one you're picking up on is red. That's right. And then all of the raindrops around that raindrop are doing the same thing. They're shooting about in relation to your line of sight, red toward you. But then the raindrops a little lower than that are shooting yellow, and then lower than that, green, and so on and so on. So you get to violet, and so these groups of rain drops are producing this rainbow cumulatively, as far as your line of sight is concerned. Yeah. Because the rain is just falling. So where it is in the sky, I mean, as it falls, it's going to be changing color. It's not like frozen in mid air or anything, but it seems like it. But it seems like it, right? Exactly. Isn't that phenomenal? It really is. I just think that's just as cool as it gets. Yeah, it's super cool. And you'll always notice, too, the sky under the rainbow is going to be brighter than out. And when you've got a double rainbow, which we'll get to, the area between those two is usually really dark. Right. And that's called the Alexander's Dark Band. Yeah, alexander's Band, because Alexander Aphrodisius was the first dude to describe that. That's a great name, alexander Aphrodisius. Yeah. Pretty good. It sounds like a 70s exploitation, maybe, or something. Totally. But yeah. So the reason why in between the double rainbows you have Alexander's Band is because the light there is reflecting away from you. It's a dark area. Yeah. So the sunlight hitting those raindrops is going away. You're like, oh, it's dark inside the rainbow. All of that light is reflecting back to you, and you're seeing all of the different colors come at you, and they're recombining indivisible light. So there's no color. It's just bright sunlight in the middle. Yeah. And sunlight, they also always describe it as white. Sunlight is all the colors. We just can't see it. Yes. We should really do a whole how color works episode. It's fascinating stuff, but yeah. Depending on whether you're a painter who's mixing chemical color, whether you're a chemist or a physicist, white is either the presence of all colors or the absence of color. Right. It's kind of mind blowing. We should totally do how color works. Well, I guess after this break, we'll talk a little bit more about the double rainbow all the way and even well, we'll just leave it at that. What does it mean? So, Chuck, you want to talk about double rainbows and what forms them? It's pretty much the same thing, right? Yeah. The lights refracted twice. Yeah. It's just a double refraction. Yeah. What's cool is if you look at a double rainbow, the one on top, the higher one, that's the second refraction is reversed. So rather than red being on the top, it's on the bottom. So reverse rainbow is what a double rainbow is, and you can have a triple and even a quad. Nice. But it's rare. Yeah. I've seen a little bit of a triple once, I think, to where you just see the faintest hint of that third one. And if you're seeing that, that means the initial. I think it's called the primary and secondary. That means your primary is super sharp yes. To where it looks like it's drawn on the sky. Painted on the sky. Nice. And then your secondary is going to be a little more faint than the third one because the triple refraction is not the easiest thing to occur in nature. Yeah. And one of the things that makes the primary rainbow, and then hence the secondary and I guess tertiary and so on rainbows bright is the amount of sunlight and the number of raindrops. Because remember those raindrops that you're seeing, the spectrum is made up of light wavelengths that's coming at you from a bunch of different raindrops, and they reinforce one another. And the more they reinforce one another, the brighter the rainbow is. Yeah. I feel like I usually see rainbows when it's not raining where I'm standing. Right, but that doesn't matter. So you can be being rained on and still see the rainbow. Well, yeah, but it's like sometimes it's like a super light rain where it just rained really hard. Maybe it's tapering off or maybe stopped altogether. Right. But the point is where the rainbow is, it's not like I said earlier, you can't drive up to a rainbow. I'm going to go up and find that thing. Because it's just a perspective trick, basically. Right. Apparently from this Scientific American article you sent, the only visual information we get from a rainbow is the band of its arc. Yeah. And everything else is what's around it. Right. So, like, if a rainbow seems really huge, it's because, say, the mountains in the background look small, which makes the rainbow, by contrast, look very big and majestic. If we're close to, say, like, the mountains are like a cell phone tower or something like that, the rainbow may look very small by comparison. Yeah. And the way they like it in the article, I think, was the human head. It's like roughly the same size, but if it was right in front of your face, it would block out a whole movie screen. Right. But if it was further away, it would just be like, hey, there's that guy's head. It's the same thing. Same thing. And then Phil Plate, who does the Bad Astronomer blog for Slate, he did a pretty good explanation of full circle rainbows. Yeah. I had never, ever heard of that until you sent me that. It makes sense, though. It totally does. Yeah. So remember we talked about a rainbow arcing over the sky because the light is bent out of the prism? Well, no, it's because it starts on one part of the ground and ends on another part of the ground. Right. Where the goal is. Yeah. The reason why it has that arc is because what you're seeing is part of what really is a full circle, and it's depending on where you are now, you have a certain amount of raindrops available to reflect the light to you. Right. So when you're on the ground and you're looking up or just over to the horizon sure. You have a certain amount of raindrops available to you to form a rainbow. If you were able to get away from the ground, you have even more raindrops, not just above you, but now below you as well. And you can see a full circle. That is the actual real rainbow. Yeah. So a real rainbow, depending on where you are in relation to the ground, is either a part of a circle, an arc, or a full circle. Yeah. And there was a picture. He said that pilots see him all the time. Or I guess if you're an astute flyer, that's not just like asleep with a black blanket over your face. Right? Yeah. You can look at a window of a plane and see one, too, because you're above it. Right. It's pretty neat. I mean, that was the photo of one, and it was like, oh, wow, there's a full circle rainbow. Full circle rainbow. It looks kind of like a lens flare a little bit, but it's a rainbow lens flare. And Phil Plate had in that same blog post, a double circle rainbow, which is really neat. Yeah. So go check that out. I agree. That was pretty cool. Yeah. You know that thing we were talking about earlier, too, about the perspective? That's why the I think I thought you did. Don't be dumb about why the Moon looks bigger. Have you done that? No. Why can you see the Moon during the day? Sometimes? Oh, why is that? Well, I'll tell you why. Because I saw, like, one the other day that was super late in the day. Well, the reason why a better question is why can't you see the Moon all the time, even during the day? So the Moon is very bright. It's the brightest object in the sky, second only to the sun. Sure. But it also gets its light from the sun. So most of the time when you can't see the Moon during the day, it's because the Moon is behind you. Right. So the light that it's getting from the sun is behind you. Now, if the Moon is closer to the sun, depending on where the Moon is in its lunar phase, then you can look up and see the sun and the moon at the same time. It's above the horizon, in other words. Okay, so if the Moon were always visible above the horizon, you'd always be able to see it during the day. Got you. And it just has to do with where it is in relation to the sun in the lunar face. Does that make sense? Yeah. If it's me, just go watch the don't be dumb on it. Yeah. They call that a bonus. An impromptu bonus. Yeah. But the reason why the Moon will look really huge in the sky is because the same thing we're talking about with the perspective, like the mountain is like when you're low on the horizon, it's going to look enormous. Right. If there's a lot less stuff near close to you, it's going to look very big. Yeah. And when I went to Montana years ago, my explanation I got because you step off the plane and you think, wow, the sky does look bigger. Like, what's the deal? They call it big sky country, and it really does look bigger. And the explanation I got from the locals, which is because of the clouds. So again, it's just a perspective trick. So, like, the mountains are way over there. I think it's just the clouds that they typically get are the big, huge, puffy clouds. But they look big in relation to the mountains in the distance. Right? Yeah, I think that's the deal. So it makes the sky appear to look larger. Plus, I imagine also there's fewer obstacles and obstructions, so there's more sky to see and take in, just looking around. Right? Yeah. Like when I lived in Yuma, and you go out in the desert and you can see like 180 deg from horizon to horizon. Right. But they don't have the cloud formations. So the sky looks bigger in Montana than it does in the middle of the desert because most of the time in the desert, you're going to see that just blue. Nothing but blue. Yeah. So there's no perspective. Nice. You know, like when you take a picture of something to sell on ebay, you put your fist next to it so people know how big it is. Is that what people do? Well, sure. I've seen quarters and rulers. Never seen a fish. Yeah, that's quarters and rulers. That's probably a better rule of thumb. Yeah, right. So, Chuck, I got a couple of other things. Apparently, when you look at a rainbow, it's not an even division or even representation of all the colors you see the most red. It's the most visible. Apparently, 38% of a rainbow is red, and green is second at 15. Blue is the least 11%. What is green? Green is 22%. Okay. 22% rainbow green. Interesting. I wonder what color blind we need to do on color blindness. But I looked into the article, and it was just sort of started to melt my brain, like all this stuff. So I just said, no, put that on the back burner. I think you did a great job with this. Well, we'll see. I'm sure we'll get stuff wrong. And lastly, the LGBT rainbow flag, designed in 1978 by a guy named Gilbert Baker. Really? And it used to have eight. It had turquoise and hot pink on it before. Yeah, but apparently they ran out of fabric for hot pink because the things started to take off, so they discontinued that. And I think the same went for the turquoise one, too. Interesting. They just went with six, and now it's a shining monument for establishments for people to say, I want to go in there, and some people to say, I don't want to go in there, sadly. Right. I went to a gay bar in Philadelphia one afternoon, and I say by accident, not like it was a big deal. Was it the Blue Oyster? No. And it was in the afternoon, so that was just how it is in some bars in the afternoon. Like, the serious regulars are in there. Sure. It doesn't matter. Gay, straight, whatever. And they were very cool guys, and it was a big group of us, and I think they were like, you know, you're in a gay bar, right. And they were kind of pointing that out, and I was like, oh, well, great. Served me a Bloody Mary, then. Right. Exactly. Like, I didn't know if he thought we were I think he knew we were from out of town. Sure. Well, that was just a legitimate yeah, he didn't want any trouble. I got it. I was like, we're not like that, my friend. Just a happy accident. That's a good ending to the Rainbow episode. Yeah. If you want to know more about rainbows, go check out our article on the site rainbows. Just type that word into how stuff works. Go check out that Slate Post and Scientific American in the Atlantic. Some good stuff out there. And I said, Search bar. I think in there somewhere. Which means it's time for listener mail. That's right. I'm going to call this Plyney the Beer. And this is from Corey. And I think Corey's in San Francisco. Hey, guys, love the podcast. I was listening to Cinnamon today. There was an exchange about pliny, and I comment that there was one and only. I think anyone in the Bay Area would know that there are two planies the Elder and the younger. That's because one of our local breweries has a beer called Planet the Elder, which is known by beer aficionados as one of the best beers out there. In fact, it sells out weekly from local groceries. They also make though a plane, the younger, which only comes out for two weeks a year. People wait in line for hours just to get a pint. And there was also a real historical planny, the elder and planty the younger, who is his nephew. I didn't realize it was his nephew, and that is from Corey. And I did look it up because the two weeks thing did not believe it, but sometimes you want to see it with your own eyes. And yeah, plenty of the younger is a triple IPA. Oh, wow, that sounds awesome. Name for the nephew and adopted son, evidently. And it is pub draft, only they don't even bottle it. Very limited distribution locally and it's seasonal. So for just two weeks a year in February at the Bay of Bengal, you can get it in a bar, I guess, in San Francisco. Nice. And it is a ten point 25 percenter. Wow. Yeah. As opposed to eight for the elder. And they're both IPAs. Yeah, one's the double and the triple. Yeah. And you can get the planning the elder in the bottles. It's not quite as exclusive. We'll have to try that on our tour. Yeah, I guess only the elder, unless we luck out and happen to be there during that two week period. Well, no, it's in February. But if there's a bar out there that maybe wanted to just say we're out, put it under the bar, save it for a month for us, we'll be there. I don't think that's going to happen. If you want to correct us after we get something flagrantly wrong, like we did with the whole planet thing, you can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can post it on Facebook. Comstyto. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web STUFFYou knowo.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howtofworks.com. Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means schools out, the sun's shining, the daylight is longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder from exactly right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgarif and Georgia Hardstarks, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of My Favorite Murder one week early on Amazon Music with the free Amazon Music app, and listen today." | ||
How Wildfires Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-wildfires-work | Wildfires consume an annual average of 5 million acres in the US. But what causes wildfires? How do they become so powerful? More importantly, how do we fight them? Join Josh and Chuck as they take you to the frontlines of the fight against wildfires. | Wildfires consume an annual average of 5 million acres in the US. But what causes wildfires? How do they become so powerful? More importantly, how do we fight them? Join Josh and Chuck as they take you to the frontlines of the fight against wildfires. | Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:34:45 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2011, tm_mon=7, tm_mday=26, tm_hour=14, tm_min=34, tm_sec=45, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=207, tm_isdst=0) | 30381940 | audio/mpeg | "Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetoporkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W. Chuck Bryant right over there. And this is stuff you should know. That was my chatter. I told you I worked with him, I think, on a podcast, right? Yeah. He was puffy and stuffed in a suit. He's nice, though, right? He was super nice. And heck, every time I wear a suit, I'm puffy and stuffed in a suit. I'm poured into my suit, poured in liquid. That's great. And that's absolutely not true, by the way. Okay, Chuck. Yes. I have a couple of stories for you. I have a specific story for you, but you have this, too, right? Did I give you this? Yes, I do. Okay, so in 2002, right, there is a guy who worked for the Bureau of Indian Affairs, and he was a firefighter for them. Right. He went on to the Arizona Apache reservation, and he started a wildfire intentionally. Okay, so he's an arsonist. Yes. He's not an arsonist for fun or because he's crazy or what was it? He was curious. Highly curious. Remember? That was trade curiosity. Oh, right. Setting fires. He wanted work. Right. Leonard Greg. Leonard Greg goes his name. He set this fire, and unbeknownst to him, saying that you do. Yeah. There's a woman who had run out of gas not too far away, right. And she saw that there was a news helicopter covering the fire that Leonard Greg had just said she didn't know about, either, but she didn't feel like walking, or she felt like she couldn't walk, so she set a fire to try to get the attention of the new helicopter so that it would come rescue her so she didn't have to walk to go get gas. That's pretty amazingly awful. I guess her last name was Cherisky. Yeah, because the Rodeo Fire, which is what they called the fire that Leonard Gregg started, collided with the Cheetahsky Fire, and it was a conflagration. Ultimately, 467,000 acres burned, including 491 houses, and it was the largest fire in Arizona's history. And this is 2002. So Greg I don't know what happened to the woman, but Greg was found guilty of arson, sentenced to ten years in order to pay $28 million, which, as an occasional firefighter for the Bureau of Indian Affairs, I would imagine he didn't have. Yes. And that never happens. You always see that they award so and so this, and they just don't pay. It's just like a symbolic award, I guess, right. You'll never make more than 50% of your wages again kind of thing. Yeah. But what's crazy is not just that this lady set this fire because she wanted to get the attention of a news copter. That's great. Or that this guy set a fire because of a desire to get work as a fire to put the fire out, but because they're not the only people who have done stupid stuff like this. Right. They follow in a long, grand tradition of people who have set wildfires for all sorts of different reasons, and a lot of them to get work. Yeah. You have a list here. And of course, we're going to praise the firefighters now that we're seeing a lot of these firefighters starting fires. But it does happen more than you would think. Yeah. I imagine we'll probably throw some more out later on. But first, checkers. Right. Let's get to wildfires, how they work, what affects them. The fire triangle. We should probably start with the fire triangle because it relates to not just forest fires or wildfires, but all fires. All fire. Josh, requires three things. Fuel, obviously, to burn air, to get oxygen to the fire. We all know that makes the fire burn hotter and bigger, and then the heat source to bring the fuel to the ignition temperature to begin with. Right. And they call that the fire triangle. And the goal of a wild firefighter, and I guess probably more so a wild firefighter is to remove one of those three components from the scene, and that will give them a better chance of extinguishing the fire. Yeah. If you can bring the temperature down or starve the fire of oxygen or get rid of the fuel. Right. All three of those things have to exist. And the reason why, if you look at wood as a fuel, wood, as it pertains to fire, is just a solid store of hydrocarbons that are released when the wood is heated to the flashpoint. To the flashpoint. And those hydrocarbons at the flash point bind with oxygen in the air. And it combusts. Thanks to the spark. Thanks to the heat. Yeah. And the flashpoint. Everything has a flashpoint. Apparently, everything will burst into flames at some point. Like Fahrenheit 451 is supposed to be the flash point of book. Yes. Right? Yes. Which is a very cool title. Woods flashpoint is 572 degrees if you're into Celsius, that kind of thing. And that's when wood will burst into flames. Yes. I've got a couple of just quick stats here. About 5 million acres of woodland burn every year in the United States. And I got a different set. That was 1.2 million. But then I looked I saw that set, too. Yeah. I looked at the past decade. 5.9 million, 5.29.39 .88.68,473 and seven. So that's about five. Yeah. So I trust that one. And that is dude, in 2009 I'm sorry, let's go to 2006. There were 96,385 fires wildfires in the US. It's a lot of wildfires. Isn't that crazy? And what's crazy is that four fifths of those are started by human activity. Yeah. A little more than four fifths. That's nuts. There's a whole thing called lightning season, right? Yeah. That when combined with this type of weather called fire weather, which is very dry, maybe drought like conditions during warm summer months when it's very hot out and all it takes is like, apparently like a train wheel causing a spark off of the rail into some tender and then bam, you've got wildfire. But even all those don't account for more than a fifth of wildfires. The rest are like people throwing cigarettes out or looking for work as firefighters or not putting out their fire when they're camping. Yes, that's a big one, too. I have another couple of stats from FEMA. There are total, there are 176,000 intentionally set outdoor fires every year in the United States. And a lot of those, I think they're prescribed burns, right? No, that's like people's you mean axe of arson. Yeah, but it's only a certain amount of those are why I think 63% are outdoor fires, vegetation fires. So the others are like trash fires, rubbish fires. Fires. Yeah, exactly. All of them make Smokey the bear weep. Yeah, true. So there's fire weather, there's lightning season. Four fifths of fires are started by humans. More than four fifths. He said. We know about the fire triangle. Right. So once combustion is started from whatever the source, is there's a lot of factors? Well, no, not necessarily. There's three large factors that combine to, I guess, give us an idea of what's going to happen with this forest fire right now. Are these fuel characteristics or like how fast it will spread? No, it's fuel, weather and topography. Okay. Yeah. Those are the big three. And then each of those kind of has a few subcategories. Yes. But fuel, the amount and the type of fuel, the type of weather that's going on, like, is it fire weather, is it not? And then topography, the lay of the land, like if it's a lake, that's not good topography for a forest fire. Right. And I'm going to use forest fire and wildfire interchangeably. I didn't see anything that says that they're not one in the same. Well, they are today, at least. Forest fire just kind of rolls off the tongue a little more. Okay. For me. Yeah. My thick tongue. La said wildfire, and I keep saying wildflower to Jerry. Is it wildflower or wide fire? What? Sea wide fire? Forest fire. It could be a wild fire. That's true. So fuel, you need a fuel, obviously, to get the wildfire burning. And what they call, they call it the fuel load is the amount and it's a measured amount of fuel available per unit area, and it's usually tons per acre. So they can actually they're good enough to estimate that. Yes. Like the biomass of, like all this dry grass. Yeah. They know, like, man, this is going to be a bad one because we've got, I don't have any numbers, but whatever fuel load in this area of the Colorado National Forest. And what's interesting is you would think that the fuel load, if you do it in weight because it's tons per acre. Right. That depending on the type of fuel. Like if it's grass, if it's lighter, that it's going to burn more quickly because it has less water. Yeah. Right. Because that's a characteristic of the type of fuel, is how much moisture it has in it. Yeah. And the density, like twigs, obviously will burn faster for two reasons. One is because it's not as densely packed. Because which will give it more oxygen. Yeah. There's less surface area. Yeah. And the second is it's smaller and it dries out more quickly. Yeah. It's not like drawing a tree or a log. Just got to take a long time to dry out. Right. And then the same goes for density with like, say, tufts of pine straw. Right. If it's very densely packed, it's going to retain moisture in the middle, which makes it harder to burn. Any time you've ever set pinesaw on fire as a kid, it smokes a lot if you throw a big mess on your fire. Right. But if it's kind of spread out, it dries more easily and it lets more oxygen in between it. Which is another need for fuel. Yeah. In a small fuel material they call flashy fuels, they wear like, four fingered ring. Right. And on a chemical level, it varies on how long it takes these things to ignite as well, beyond the fact that it's just like more dense or bigger or more spread out. Right. When I go camping, I will dry out campfire Wood beside the fire, and you can hear it says you can see it, you can see the moisture sizzling from the log, and then you just inch it closer and it'll just boom. Flash point. Yeah. That's how it happens. Yeah. Oh, another thing, Josh. As the fire pushes forward, it's what it's going to be doing because there's so much heat associated with it and smoke, it's going to dry out the stuff, the fuel in front of it. Yeah. So by the time it gets there, potentially that's why wildfire happens. By the time it gets there, it's already dry and ripe for the picking. Yes. And it's just going to keep burning and keep burning. There's nothing to stop it, basically. That's right. It feeds itself. Something else that feeds it. So that was fuel. Right. Yeah. The second category or factor that really determines how a wildfire is going to go is weather. Big time. And when you think of weather, you think, oh, well, rain, sure. Or snow. If it's raining, then of course the wildfire is going to go out. They point that out in here, too. I thought Kevin went to a great was that sponsor? Yeah. He definitely doubted his eye on that one. He did. Because yes. Obviously if it's pouring down rain, it's going to keep everything moist or if it's been raining for a while. Yeah. Humidity helps. Yeah, big time. But the aspect of weather that probably has more of an effect than any is wind. Oh, yeah. So you've got wind outside of the fire, which is going to push it along, push it in one direction or another. Well, it's very unpredictable. That's one of the things. The winds, especially the dry santa Ana in California is already hot and dry wind. So it might as well be fuel. Right. I guess it's sort of fuel. Well, not traditionally, but it's not necessarily fuel. But it brings more oxygen to the fuel, too. Yeah, exactly. Right. So it pushes fire along. It's an oxygen delivery system, wind is there's a guy who's interviewed in this article. His name is Dr. Terry Clark at the national center for atmospheric research, and he's created this model called coupled fire atmospheric dynamics. Pretty cool. And basically what he's doing is figuring out how fire interacts with the surrounding atmosphere and vice versa, because apparently they feed off of each other. Yeah. Fire can create its own weather system and weather pattern. Yes. Have you seen it before? Like in a really hot fire, these little tornadoes yeah. Come up. It's a firework. Right. Those can be enormous. It's basically like the heat from the fire creates a vortex, and the vortex is customarily horizontal, but if something gets under it, it can stand upright and it becomes a fire tornado that can throw whole logs. Yeah. It can throw a burning tree, like a mile. It's a monster. And it can throw it a mile into where there previously was no fire. And that's why forest fires are so hard to fight. One reason why they are, because all of a sudden, you're fighting it on one front and you've seen them, too leap from the treetops, and all of a sudden, dude, it's on this side of the mountain now. Right. It's scary stuff. And treetop specifically, by the way, that's a type of fire onto itself. That's a crown fire, is what it's called. That's right. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office when you could be using stamps.com? Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses. Because stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and ups shipping services you need, right. From your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS. Rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale no longterm commitments or contracts. Just go to stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code. Stuff these fire whirls, right? The fire tornadoes, they don't necessarily have to follow that process of starting out horizontally and standing up and then moving like a tornado. There's another thing called a hairpin Fireworld. Is this the forward burst? Yeah. This is amazing. Basically it's like the fire developed so much, I guess, heat, it's vortex is due, it's vortices due that it shoots forward like a flamethrower. And apparently these things, they get up to like 66ft wide, right? Yeah. They can shoot 300 plus feet at 100 miles an hour. All of a sudden, like the fire just shot 100ft forward at 100 miles an hour and then in an instant, all of a sudden your fire is going in not a different direction, in additional direction. Right. Because tracking these things, predicting these things, we figured out, or Dr. Terry Clark has figured out that it's not just the atmospheric conditions, it's the fire creating its own stuff, its own wind and just moving from both of these things, it's a living thing. Yeah. And they call that spotting. If it tosses embers to another spot, they call that spotting. And if it starts a fire, obviously right. And then temperature also is another factor. If it's warm out hot, obviously that's an extra 6000 degrees that the sun doesn't have to heat something up to you. Yeah. That's why they burned mostly or most hot and wild during the day, during the afternoon. California. I had to get used to camping in California because in Georgia georgia is like a rainforest and there's never any fire threat. No. Plus it's so muggy. Yeah, it is so muggy all the time. It's no way. You couldn't start a fire if you want to. You can't even strike a match outside right now. But I'm just used to camping with a great big awesome campfire. But once I headed west into Colorado and New Mexico and California, they have every state park and national park you go to a national forest, has signs that say fire risk high, no fires at all. Or you have to apply for a fire permit with the camp rangers. Forest rangers. Sure. And I had to get used to either sneaking my fire, which is not right, and risking fine, or not having one at all, which stinks. Why don't you just go apply for a permit? Well, sometimes the fire risk was so high you're not supposed to have one at all. Got you. And I would still have one and I probably shouldn't be saying that, but I'm super careful. When I was living in the van for a little while, I camped on the northern rim of the Grand Canyon and I started a fire. But I didn't see any signs that said no fire or anything. But I could have totally missed it. Probably no one said anything, though. Yeah. And you know what? I was completely irresponsible for doing that. Just let me go on record and say that it was not the right thing to do. Right. Even though I was super careful because accidents happen. And I could have easily been that jerk that didn't see the Ember getaway that starts a forest fire from a trains wheel. Can start a forest fire. Yeah. Then yes, very easily. A fire that you started a forest fire. Right. That was very good chuckle COA. Well, I didn't want to sound like I was bragging about it, like, oh, I was super careful. So it was cool. It was not cool. There's this guy on yeah, I didn't take your bragging. Okay. Do you ever watch Malcolm in the middle? Oh, yeah. There was this one scene where the mom was telling the dad. He was saying that she was giving him grief about the stories that he was telling his kids. And he's like, they are cautionary tales. And she goes, Cautionary tales doing him. It was so cool. I enjoyed that show for a long time. But like all shows when it's about kids, when they got a little too old, all of a sudden his voice is down. Well, no, he's the same. He cashed out, like right about that time I did. He's like I'm out Malcolm himself. He's like, I've got 15 Porsches and I'm very happy I'm done well. Yeah, he went onto this big movie career. Sorry. Thank you. I wonder if you live cranston, though. I haven't seen Breaking Bad, but they're supposed to be amazing. All right. The last thing, Josh, is topography. We talked about a steep slope. It's going to spread faster, usually spreads uphill, even though leave it to Australia to do something weird. Dr. Terry Clark says he has a case study in Australia where the fire actually burned down a sloped mountain, which is pretty unusual. Yes. Normally it burns up for a couple of reasons. The ambient wind usually blows uphill. The steeper the slope, the better, because the fire, the smoke and the heat no better, the worse. Well, for the fire, as fire is concerned, it's like, give me a steep mountain. Yeah. Because the fire would be standing almost upright then, and the smoke and the heat coming off the fire is really drying out the fuel load ahead. Yeah. So most of the time they burn upward, up and out, and then they reach the crest and they're like, I should have thought this through because now I have to go down and I can't. Yeah. Which is good for fighting the fire. Not good for the fire. No. Besides burning all the vegetation, which can be really bad, it can lead to things like erosion and mudslides later on because you mess with the ground like that and it's not stable like it once was. Yeah. I mean, one of the roles that a root system plays is holding the ground in place. And if you burn the tree and the root system out, it's just soil, and the nice heavy rain comes. And that very thing happened, Josh, in 1994, in Storm King Mountain near Glenwood Springs, Colorado, 2000 acre forest burned and the underbrush burned on the steep slopes. And two months later, they got a lot of heavy rain, and it literally poured tons of mud and rock onto a stretch of Interstate 70 like engulfing cars, sweeping them into the Colorado River. All because of the fire months ago. And we've seen woodsides before. Remember Guatemala? Oh, yeah, man. Remember, like, down the mountain, there was still that path. You could see where the path came from. The trees standing on this village where they never unearthed the people and people's kids were running around. Yeah, it was so sad. Where we were standing was like 6ft higher than it once was, right? Yeah. Six at least, I would say. That's awful. So, Chuck, if you want to put out a fire well, first of all, they're beneficial, though we should say that at times. Okay. Burning the underbrush of a forest can prevent a larger fire later on. So they do have, like, prescribed burns. Like you were talking about, chuck, I inadvertently started a book club by mentioning 1491 again recently. Have you noticed a lot of people have been writing and saying, like, thanks, man. Yeah. And they're like, what about 1421? Yes. It's another book. That's a fake book, though. Oh, is it? Yeah. That's the one where the guys, like, the Chinese made it to South America or Mexico. So there's, like, long you wrote an article about it, and I pillaried the guy. Okay. Yeah. He has very shaky evidence. That's fascinating stuff. But have we not broadcasted on that? No, let's do it. All right. I read that today and I was like, Why haven't we done this yet? Oh, we can totally do it. Okay. I think it took a little while for me for the bitterness to leave my mouth after I wrote that one because the guy was getting tons of press at the time. Really? But anyway, anyone who's read 1491 knows that North America was basically a managed forest. And one of the ways that it was managed prior to Columbus was through prescribed burns. It is very beneficial. It burns away the underbrush so you have less potential for accidental fires. Yes. Right. Remember we talked about recessions are kind of like that. And it gets rid of disease, provides nutrients in the soil. That's right. It's an awesome show. After you've hit the peace pipe, just kick back and watch a forest fire go. So let's talk about putting these things out. Joshua's, they have a couple of categories of these elite firefighters. They're called hotshots and smoke jumpers. The hot shots. It's so funny. It's the names they give them. Yeah. I'd say that's pretty bad a now. Sure. All right. Hotshots. They work in 20 person teams and they're on the ground, and they're trained to build mainly to build fire breaks. Right. And that is when they strip the land of fuel ahead of the fire, or they will burn it ahead of the fire to stop it there. Have you ever seen that? Gods must be crazy, too. No, the dude, the main dude, I can't remember his name. There's a brush fire coming, like a prairie fire, savannah fire coming at the main characters, and they're about to be engulfed in it. And the main bushman runs and grabs like, a piece of grass or whatever and sets fire to the grass behind them that they are running into and burns it and then basically creates a circle. It's a backfire fire break, and they're all standing in a circle where there's no more fuel any longer. It's completely and utterly genius. Well, it is. And you have to really know what you're doing. You have to put it in the exact right spot. I know that sometimes they'll do the fire break and the fire will leap over that. And then that's going to make you feel like yes. There's nothing we can do. Well, in a lot of cases. I mean, I remember was it two years ago or maybe it was three years ago when they had all those wildfires. And I remember thinking, like, what we can do medically and we can put a man on the moon, but we can't stop a fire. And it's that out of control because it's so huge and overwhelming. Very deep, Chuck. Thank you. Not deep at all, actually. There's smoke jumpers, which are hot shots that jump out of airplanes. Right? Yeah. And there's only a couple of hundred of them in the US. Which I can imagine. That's a really specialized job, and you have to be a tough mug to do that. That would be how long is that what he did in firestorm? I think he was a smoke. I didn't see it. Not many people saw it, actually. But I did copy the description from IMDb. I thought it was just about like a firefighter in forest fires, but of course, because it's Hollywood, they added some plot to it. Yeah. Firefighter Jesse Graves has to save ornithologist Jennifer and other people in a forest fire. I thought that was it, but no, it was set up by the lawyer of a convicted killer, Earl Shea, who escaped from prison with several of his inmates, posing his firefighters to recover 37 million in Stash. Loot. So they started the fire on purpose. It was sort of like the guys who posed as ambulance drivers to get the dude out of prison. That sounds awesome, actually. I mean, the plot description sounds pretty awesome. You can tell you hear, like, Howie Long. It's going to be awful. But I'm sure the writer of that was like, okay, I'm on the site. Yeah. And then he hears it's going to be firestorm during how he long and he's like, I'm sure the writer Alan Smithy was pretty psyched about his project for a little while. Hey, everyone, when you're running a small business, every second counts and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office then? You could be using stamps.com. Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses. Because stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and ups shipping services you need, right from your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to stamps.com. Click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. So, Chuck, you can fight a fire using an air core, right? Yeah. They dropped fire retardant on the fire. You've seen the news footage? The red stuff? Yes. Or they can drop tons of water and have you ever heard that urban legend? Oh, yeah, but what is it? So there's a forest fire somewhere, we'll say California and they put it out and like six months later, whatever, some hiker is walking through this area and looks up and notices that there's a scuba diver stuck in a tree. That's right. With the rebreather on and the mask on and the flippers and everything, and he's dead. And the hiker can't figure out what's going on and leaves the forest and tells somebody about it. And they start doing some research and they figure out that he was scooped up by one of these planes that goes out to the ocean and keeps up a bunch of water and comes and dumps it on the totally not true. Right? Wildfire. Yeah. That's a good one, though. Yeah, that's a good one. I hate it when you burst urban legends, though, because it bursts so many bubbles. There's people out there right now going, oh man, it's so beneficial. Yes. I know it's things right now, but in about 45 seconds you're going to feel like a smarter person. Right? That's true. We mentioned the fire retardant. That is not just red stuff. It is a chemical retardant containing phosphate fertilizer. And it cools down the fire, slows it down. Its main ingredient is water, though. So it's like super water. Got you. As far as I understand you. Know, I was thinking about when I was reading about smoke jumpers. The human cannonball thing that DARPA came up with would be perfect for that. You just be like, just shoot a bunch of smoke jumpers over the fire into where you want them, like parachutes or something. Sure. Yeah. I can't imagine a smoke jumper's job, like landing in the middle of that stuff. Yeah, it's crazy stuff. Amazing. And we also want to give a shout out to Always. Great movie starring Richard Dreyfus. No, always. Oh, I thought you said we always want to give a shout out. No, always. Remember? Yes, that was a good movie. John Goodman, Holly Hunter, Richard Dreyfus, and that handsome dude who I don't know. Yeah, that's right. The guy that played the handsome guy. And it was a remake of, I think a guy named Joe or something. Also, I believe, Audrey Hepburn's final film. Was it Calvin? She was darling in it. She was. She was pretty till the very end. Is that it? That is it. Okay. If you want to know more about forest fires, you should go into the beloved, venerable website that we work for, howstepworks.com, and type in wildfires. And we have it as one word, right? Yes. And if you type in, it's going to bring up a very cool article with some really great photography, too. I think the page one or page zero pick is just awesome looking. And since I said handy search bar, that means it's time for listener mail. No, it's not. Oh, yeah, that's right. I don't have a listener mail for this one, josh and I was trying to think of what we could do instead. What did you come up with? Well, I thought about a call to action saying, that'd be great if you could go to itunes and leave us a rating and a review. Good or bad. Some people hate it when we do that. Like we're just begging for it or whatever. It beats a pledge drive. Yeah. Yes, it does. Chuck, do we ask that much from you guys? Really? No. Great. I'm glad we finally worked that out. Call to action. Or how about some love for Jerry via email, too? That would be great. Oh, that's nice. Some Jerry questions or both? We'll tell you all about Jerry. Yeah, ask us really personal questions about her life. We'll answer anything. Totally. We've just been waiting for everyone to ask who can ask those questions all sorts of ways first, if you want to go, give us a rating, a review on itunes. That's very nice of you. Thank you. But if you want to ask us a question about Jerry, you can tweet to us. We have our own Twitter feed up to 15,000 followers. Did you know that? Really? Yes. Syskodcast, one word. And then, of course, we have our great Facebook page that's facebook. Comstuffynow, and you can send us a regular old email and you can listen to us on WFMU. If you're in New York or New Jersey. 911 fridays between seven and 08:00. P.m.. The stuff you should know. Radio public radio version. Yeah. Or 901 in the Hudson Valley. And is that not New York? New York's on the Hudson Valley. Where's the Hudson Valley? New York State. So that's upstate? Yeah. Is that where Albany is? I keep hearing, like, everybody on Law and Order talked about when they met the governor. I guess so. Or you can send us a regular email to stuffpodcast@howtofforcs.com. Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff From the Future. Join housetop work staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 camry. It's ready. Are you? Summer schools out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good it's criminal. Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, Morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Ercart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this chart topping series have you hooked before you know it, listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | ||
How Bats Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-bats-work | They are creepy, sure, but they are also useful, cute and in great danger of extinction. Get a new lease on life from a new view of bats in this episode. | They are creepy, sure, but they are also useful, cute and in great danger of extinction. Get a new lease on life from a new view of bats in this episode. | Thu, 30 Jul 2015 13:51:18 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2015, tm_mon=7, tm_mday=30, tm_hour=13, tm_min=51, tm_sec=18, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=211, tm_isdst=0) | 43130109 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W, Chuck Bryant. I didn't know we were podcasting about dolphins. That was my my bat. Oh, I thought it was a dolphin. No, that was a bat. Well, then why are you wearing your dolphin running shorts? That has nothing to do with bats. Everything to do with Damarin. They probably still have those dolphin running shorts. What are you talking about? Yes. Remember the little, like, real runners? They still wear those shorts. Or maybe it's all spandex now, like, super tight. Okay. But they used to be just like, a little wispy piece of but they were called dolphins. Well, I think that was the brand. I wasn't familiar, but things were the right gust of wind could reveal lots of things. I know what you're talking about. Like short shorts. Yeah. Run a real flimsy r1 satiny flimsy wispy. I think they were dolphin running shorts. And by the way, this podcast is not sponsored by dolphin running shorts. No, it's sponsored by the Bats of America. That's right. Which I always have liked bats, but after reading this, I'm so much more in love with bats. Oh, yeah. They're neat animals. It's amazing. And not just like I learned a lot of stuff. I kind of knew about the echolocation and stuff like that. Actually, here's my impression of a bat. Echolocating pretty good because humans can't hear it. That's right. I just did it. Really great. Very nice, chuck, if you are on the fence well, not you, because you just stated that you're over the fence. Clearly in the backyard. Pro at me, too. They never did anything to anybody on purpose, aside from some of them sucking your blood while you sleep. Aside from that, it's super rare. Bats seem to be pretty great animals. And if you're on the fence about bats and you want to go over to the pro bat side, go onto YouTube and type in bat eating a banana. That's very cute. It's adorable. Yeah. There's also baby bat burrito videos. Yeah, they're wrapped up in a blanket, not a tortilla. Yeah, there's a lot of cute bat videos out there because there's a lot of cute bats. There sure are, my friend. And you might say, no, I've seen bats. They are as ugly as pure evil gets. Yeah. You're talking about what are called micro bats, the ones with the crazy nostrils that actually makes you MCG. Really? Yeah. I think they're cute, too. I get it. Because they definitely look like literary ghouls and fiends, which makes you wonder I wonder if fiends and ghouls were modeled after those types of bats. Oh, I'm sure. Okay. I just didn't realize it was so obvious. Well, no, I mean, it would have to, because that's a real thing, and they look so much alike. Maybe no one had seen a bat, and then they made gargoyles and were like, what a coincidence. Or maybe a bat just died at the feet of an artist one day and he was like, oh, man, I got to catch this in clay, right, and put it on my front door step. I know what you were driving at, though. They are cute in their own really weird, uncanny way. Sure, yeah. But nothing like the flying fox. Those are legit cute. No, and actually this article needs to be updated. Man. So bats are actually bats are the only flying mammals, we should say. They're very unique animals. Only flying mammals? Wait, what about the penguin? Non flying and a bird doesn't even come close. Got you. Bats are mammals and they're more closely related to humans than, say, like, the fox or the rat or whatever that they're frequently described as being the flying version of. And there's, I think, something like 1200 species of bats. It's a lot of bat species, and they all belong to the order chiroptera, which means hand wing, which we'll get to yeah, and then batch typically are subdivided into two sub orders. And it used to be mega, chiron, terra and micro kyro Terra. Is that not right anymore? No, because science specifically, like taxonomy, used to be kind of dumb. Sure. It was just based on appearance. And then once the field of genetics came along, they started like, genetically testing things and realizing that it's not a really good way to categorize things. Like this skunk looks like a raccoon, but they're not the same thing. Right. So maybe they shouldn't be in the same order any longer. Yeah, this is the case with bats, so it used to be based on their size, mega bats and micro bats, or megaoptera and microchayrop Terra. Now, because of genetic testing, some of the very small bats are now in the megabat order, subordinate and vice versa. But those are still sub orders. But they renamed them to megabats and microbats. Oh, I got you. So, for example, the long tongue fruit bat is considered a megabat, but its wingspan is only about ten inches. Right. It's a little thing. Whereas if you look at the flying fox or the fruit bat, asia, Africa and Australia, those things are adorable. And they are huge, like six foot wingspans on some of these bad boys. Yes, I think they're gorgeous. I think it's the wing just terrifies people. Yeah, because it looks like a cute little fuzzy fox. And then he goes right, it unfolds his wings, it envelops you and takes you to hell with it. Well, that's what it evokes, I think, is a cape that something would wrap around you and suck your blood. Yes. Like a vampire. Oh, I wonder if vampires were invented independently of bats. What is the cute little guy bumblebee bat? Yeah. I posted a picture that fell on Facebook today just as a teaser. People didn't know we were going to do an episode on it just to get reactions. And most people are like, oh, that's super cute. And a lot of people are like, I still wouldn't touch that thing. Well, that's a really good, sensible thing. Like, bats might be cute and all that, but they're also enormous reservoirs for diseases. They're like top notch disease reservoirs for diseases that you and I can catch. Like ebola and rabies. Sure. And they think one of the reasons is because we'll talk about this later, but they're so comfortable with each other, they just huddle together, spreading disease on one another. Exactly. I mean, like epidemic disease didn't take hold among humans until we moved into cities. And even in cities, we're still not elbow to elbow. Figuratively we are, but not in reality. Bats are literally elbow to elbow in their colonies, so disease just spreads anywhere it wants among them. Yeah. However, about the rabies scare, they are carriers of rabies, but not like people think. Less than one half of 1% of bats are rabid. One half, .5%. And you're way more likely to get rabies from raccoons and skunks. Okay, well, there you go. That puts it in perspective, because I like pet any raccoon I see. Maybe I should stop doing that. You should probably stop doing that. They bite me a lot. Yeah. Checked out. Maybe I should. So, yes, you said how many species? About 1200. And aside from varying in size, like you said, just the look of them. The flying fox looks, like we said, like a little fox has that long snout, right? Looks traditionally like a mammal, has smaller ears, and those little scary looking guys have those huge ears. And that makes you me gag. So here's the thing. I believe that even that is up in the air now that they started doing genetic testing. What is like that classification based on looks as well? Oh, yeah, sure. It's just that taxonomy is really up for grabs right now. Exciting time, let's say generally speaking, then. Okay. One of the other distinctions too, typically, that divides these two suborders chuck is what they eat. Yeah. The micro bats tend to be carnivorous. Yes. So it includes vampire bats, but vampire fire bats are not all bats. Are vampire bats even if they're carnivorous? No, most bats just eat insects if they are carnivorous. Yeah, like mosquitoes, but megabats, including the big ones with the six foot wingspan. The flying fox, I think you said those are just hippies. They just eat plants. That's it. Like, literally nectar and spread pollen. Yeah, it's pretty great. Like birds. Why is that funny? It's pretty great. Yeah, it is. All right, well, let's talk a little bit about the wing, because this is where my learning really started. Here in researching this, the German word for bats is floodmus. I expected more from you than that. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I expected you to put on, like, a metal hat with, like, a spike coming out of the top. That translates into flying mice. Yes, for the curious. And people will say that because a bat does look kind of like a flying mouse or flying rodent of some sort. But like I said, they're much more closely related to humans. Yeah. And you also might think they're like birds because they fly around. Not so when you look at the wing structure of a bat and a bird, very different, actually. If you look at a human, if you held your arms out to your side with your elbows bent and your finger spread and then basically shake your hand yeah. Like you were going to do jazz hands. Exactly. And then imagine that there was a webbed membrane called a how do you pronounce it? Petigym. Pettigio. Pettogium. I don't have one of those two. Those are the wings. Yeah. There you go. The flesh of the wing. If you held your hands out and did jazz hands but it was all webbed and connected. That is way more what a bat swing looks like in functions like than a bird's wing. Right. So a bird's wing has rigid bones in it, right? Yes. And the muscles that control the wings are located basically at what would amount to your armpits. Yeah. Like a socket. So just do the chicken dance real quick and think about what you're doing. Yes. Right. There's not really any movement in the actual arm. It's all at the shoulder joint. Same with birds. With bats, that's not the case because they're basically like winged hands. Which is the reason their order is named that right, yes. They can basically swim through the air, which allows them to dive bomb and turn and twist and go up and down and go after these insects that can fly really fast, which constitute most of their prey. Oh, yeah. Much more easily. And they're much more depth at maneuvering midair than your average bird is. Yes, absolutely. Like a thousand times. There's no science behind that. I would say even like 1500 times. Okay, well, I mean, if we're going without science, let's just say like a million times more. Yeah. A gazillion. They have little thumbs that extend out of the wing in the form of a little small claw. And this is what they used to climb trees. It's really neat how they fly. I guess we'll go ahead and let the cat out of the bag. They don't have enough lift with their wings to take off. Like sitting on a branch, like a bird. Right. They don't have strong enough legs to run, run, run down a runway and take off. So they hang upside down and drop and then start flying. Right. They have like small withered little legs that they basically drag behind them as they crawl. Yeah. And so when they climb trees, they climb up to a high launch point. Right. And we'll get to the hanging later because that's super cool, too, and then just fall and start flying. Right. That's what bats do. That's what bats fly. Scientifically speaking. They believe that bats used to not fly, and thanks to natural selection, the ones who could leap further and further from tree to tree were more successful, and that eventually led to that potagium being formed. Yeah, they could fly kind of like lemurs or flying squirrels or something like that. Right. So, like, one of them was born with an extra skin flap, and everyone's like, you freak. And then it flew, and they were like, wow, it's the freak now. Exactly. Look at all these insects I got. Yeah. They think that the bat evolved, like you said, from a tree dwelling mammal, which we likely did as well, which is why we're related to bats. Most likely, we share some sort of single common ancestor that dwelt in trees. And probably bats evolved somewhere around 100 million years ago is what they believe. But I think the oldest fossils they found are, like 50 million in change. And these fossils that they found in Wyoming show that the wings are there, but the ears are not developed, which suggests that flying developed among bats before echolocation did, which has been a long standing debate. Did echo location come first? Did flying come first, or did they both evolve at the same time? And it turns out flying was first. Nice. Well, right after this break, we will talk about that echo location. How about that? Let's all right, Josh, we talked about the wing structure, makes them able to hunt really well, but it's really a one two punch along with their ecologative abilities. I think that's the word. Is that a word? Yeah. Right. So you can maneuver all day long, but if you can't find your prey, you're just doing a weird dance. Right? Exactly. You're just showing off. And the way that bats find their prey, there's a common myth, Chuck, that blind as a bat, that bats can't see. Absolutely untrue. Most bats have perfectly good vision. Yeah. Like exceptional vision, even. Yeah. There was a study, some German study, I believe, that found that bats have rods and cones, which means they can see color in the daylight as well as, like, black and white stuff. Sure. Right. Old movies. Sure. Yeah. Before Ted Turner got his hands on him. Oh, boy. That never went anywhere. It really didn't. But now it's done. Now, wizard of Oz is like gaudy as gaudy as, like, the Terracotta army originally was. No, wizard of Oz always was both because when they get to eyes, it's color. Oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah. Gone with the wind. I think he did colorize it. He did colorize it. Okay. Anyway, can you tell it's been a little while since we've done this. No, I think it's great. I can. It's also really hot in here, and it's getting hotter by the second. The more I stall the hotter it gets. Allow me to continue. Okay. So bats echolocate as well as see, and again, I'm not quite sure. I couldn't find this Chuck, but I think microbat might be the only type to echolocate. Oh, really? I don't think all bats do. The reason why is because if you're a hippie pollinating herbivore bat, you don't need to echo locate your food. You can just fly around until you run into a flower yeah. And smash it and then just lean over and suck it dry. There's some nectar. Yeah. Okay. If you are seeking flying insects as your prey, then, yeah, you better be able to echo locate. And we can actually echolocate. There's a man who is sightless, who can echo locate, and he's a human being. He is, yeah. I can't remember what maybe immense health article on them. Like, this dude just taught himself to echolocate. Did they call him Batman? Probably. Yeah. I don't remember that much. Well, if you've ever been to a canyon, let's say a grand Canyon. Okay. Let's say the Grand Canyon. Sure. And you boom your voice out there. Please don't say hello, or is anyone out there? Those are coming up with something better than that. Better than Pink Floyd lyrics. No, if it's in that context, then it passes. Okay. Yeah. What would you recommend for an echo man? It's your go to echo words. Definitely not echo. I think echo is great. It's hilarious. Definitely not hello. You know, I would say. Now batting for the New York Yankees, Manny Moto. Mani moto. That's what but you could also do the chicken dance. Yeah, that'd be good. So whatever you choose to go with it's, your next visit to the canyons, you will hear that echo come back to you. And it's basically the same way that bats use, except instead of echoing off of a canyon wall, it's echoing off of a mosquito. Sure. Or whatever. Yeah. When you make sound waves and it travels and it hits that canyon wall, it comes back to you, right? Yeah. And bats do the same thing, but like you said, they're bouncing off of a mosquito or some other flighted bug that it eats. And just from standard echo location, the bat can identify, oh, there's a mosquito. There, like, all this other stuff, all the other sound that I just put out there came back at a much slower rate than this little spot did. And that spot is probably a mosquito, but it gets way more detailed than that. Oh, yeah. Basically, bats echo location is picked up, and they're still not entirely certain, like, what kind of receptors the bat has. I mean, it's apparently all oral, but in the BAT's brain, it creates what would be about equivalent to our visual field. Like, we see light bouncing off of stuff, and I can tell roughly how far away you are and where you are and what position you're facing or what direction you're going? All through lightweight. Yes. In an instant. Like, we don't have to think about that. You see it and it's there. The best not calculating all of this, just getting this information's. Brain is automatically putting it together and what amounts, again, to like, a visio spatial field. Wow. Right. And so it knows there's a mosquito. It's about this big. It's about yay big. It's traveling at this rate in this direction, and it's, like, right below me. And it goes and gets the mosquito all from rather than picking up light waves, creating a sound wave and listening for its echo, that's echo location. It's amazing. And also, I should say, Chuck, it's really good that this is ultrasonic, because some of them go up to, like, 120 decibels, which is the equivalent of having a smoke detector, like, a couple of inches from your ear. That is not fun. No. It'd shatter your life. Yeah. All right, so let's talk about the different parts. They will determine the distance of the mosquito by how long it takes that noise to return. You and I could do that with simple math. At a canyon, we could actually calculate how far away that other wall is. With maths, you and the canyon location, they can determine where it is and how big it is and what direction it's moving by. Literally. Like, if the mosquito sound bounces back and hits the right ear before the left ear, it's going to be the right. That's pretty easy. And then they have all these little complex folds within the ear. It's not just like a big, dumb human ear like we have. Yeah. Lots of little folds that will help indicate its vertical position as well. So if they know it's coming from above, it'll sound different in the ear than if it's below. Right. And again, to the bat, all this is happening automatically. Its brain is putting all this information together, and the bat knows there's a mosquito right below it. That's right. The size is determined by the intensity of the echo. Something larger will have a more intense echo. So that's a big fat mosquito that just feasted on Josh tons of blood. Delicious blood. And they also use the Doppler effect, Chuck, to determine whether something is going away from it or toward it. That's right. Remember the Doppler effect? I've mentioned it before and got it totally wrong. Let me try again. It's tough. You ready? Yeah. So the wavelength of something is set. It's determined, right? Yes. But if something is coming near you, that wavelength has to be compressed in a shorter space. So therefore the frequency the pitch increases. If something's traveling away from you, it has a lot more space between it and you to fill up that same wavelength. Yeah, the same wavelength. So the frequency the pitch goes lower, that's the Doppler effect. Right? I think it's the doppler. Why do I have a feeling you're going to get email to people like Josh. So close. I really practice. But just one more thing. So that is how they determine distance, location, size, direction and direction. Right. Amazing. And also the actual sound that they're making when they echolocate, a lot of bats fly around with their mouths open and they look like they're just kind of slack jawed yokles. It turns out they're making their echolocation squeaks the whole time. Again, it's just ultrasonic, which is above the human threshold of hearing. Right? Yeah. So it's squeaking the whole time. It's not just sitting there with its mouth a gate. And some bats also, especially the microbats that have the crazy nostrils that make yummy gag, those actually will echolocate and generate the sound through their nose. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. That's why they look that way. They're like little speakers. So, Chuck, I think we nailed that colocation, don't you? Oh, yes. And the Doppler effect, maybe put that one to bed and we will talk more about bats, including their little families that they stay in right after this. It's Chuck. Yeah. So you talked a little bit about bats and how they love to huddle together. Yeah. And it depends on the kind of bat, the bloodthirsty bats, vampire bats. Yeah. They actually tend to roost in small little colonies, or solitarily, I believe, sometimes in really hard to reach places like the Lost Boys. Yeah. Like your fireplace. Yeah, I had to battle a bat once in a fireplace. Did you smoke it out? No, I didn't smoke it out. I put on a leather coat over another coat, gloves due to a motorcycle helmet up before you do any battle with nature. Laundry basket and a broom, and I lost. But they'll be by themselves usually. That's a good giveaway that you have encountered a blood sucking bat, the hippie herbivore bats, those tend to congregate in enormous colonies, some often composed of millions of bats. Millions, yeah. Pretty amazing. Yeah. Well, you mentioned that they do all this feeding and activity at dawn, dusk and overnight, because they will get eaten by hawks and falcons and things during the day, and other predators, too. So they like to stay away during the day and hide out, like you said, in caves, dark places, under bridges. We'll talk about Austin in a bit. Right. Hawks don't typically go into caves. They hang out in trees. So bats go off and spend their days sleeping in caves. Upside down. Upside down. And you were saying earlier that you're excited about talking about that, and I understand why. Yeah. I mean, like I said earlier, the reason they hang upside down is not to look creepy. It's because that's the way that they launch themselves to fly. Right. And when they're sleeping upside down, they're able to sleep. You would think that. Well, yeah, if you're like hanging on to something upside down, you get tired. Yeah. You've got to really tense your muscles. Not with the bats. You would if you were doing that. This is the fact of the show for me. I think you should take it well. You're right. If I was hanging upside down, I would not last very long because I wouldn't last a second. A I would be clinched. Well, we couldn't even hang upside down because we'd be using our hands and all the blood would rush to your head, too, and you just pass out. It'd be really uncomfortable. That's right. But what would happen if we were to try to do that or like to try to do a pull up, let's say, is we would clinch our fist around something which contracts muscles which are attached to your fingers by tendons. It's all one big series of connections. Right. To hang on to something, to class something. Or to grab that coffee cup. Exactly. And you're exerting energy by contracting your muscle. Right? That's right. With the bat. That's not the case at all. No. Their tendons are only connected to the upper body. No muscle involved whatsoever. Right. So when they're hanging upside down, their upper body is pulling down on their tendons, which means their claws close under whatever they're hanging from. Yeah, it's gravity coupled with just a reaction, like literally a physical reaction from pulling that bat will make those claws close. Exactly. So it requires no energy whatsoever. Right. Or talent, I guess we should say. Right. Yeah. But it requires no energy. None whatsoever. And bats will actually die in that position sometimes. Yeah. So what they do is they'll fly up to this thing, they will initially clasp it with their claws and then relax. And when they relax, they hang, which makes them clamp down really hard. And like you said, if they die hanging there, they will stay hanging there and they can go to sleep. That's where they sleep. So one of the reasons why it's so important that a bat doesn't have to expend any energy while it's upside down is because they're mammals, which means that they are warm blooded, which means that they regulate their own temperature internally. Right. Which requires a lot of energy. That puts bats at a particular disadvantage because they fly, and that requires a ton of energy. Animals are not designed to fly. To generate the energy needed to fly, bats can do it. But to do it, they have to enter what's called a state of torpor every day. And basically, while they're hanging upside down, they get super sleepy. And they get so sleepy that their metabolism starts to slow and their internal temperature falls and becomes about an equilibrium with the external temperature. So they go from warm blooded to essentially cold blooded during a single day. Yeah. Like David Blaine might. Yes. He was preparing for some weird stunt. They're controlling their own internal temperature and their own metabolic rate. Right. So while they're doing this, when their metabolism slows, they're using up less energy, which means that they're conserving it for when they fly later on when they go hunt. That's right. Which is pretty awesome. Yeah. They can actually even hibernate some bats. Yes. If they're in a region where it calls for it. Or they may just do like birds and migrate to warmer climbs. There's a lot of different bats and a lot of different things that bats do. Is that going to be our little tag, this episode? All right, well, let's talk a little bit. It's called this Fact and Fiction, since that's what this section is called in the article. Pretty original. Like we said, their leathery wings and their weird faces and their resemblance to ghouls and demons make them vilified. But that's our friends, because they eat tons and tons of insects. Literally tons. Yeah. What was the stat on that? There's 1200 mosquitoes in an hour. One bat. That's a little brown bat in North America. It's the most common North American bat species. 1200 mosquitoes in an hour, did you say? Who cares? There's trillions of mosquitoes. Doesn't matter too. Well, there are a lot of bats. That's right. There's a bat cave in Bracken Cave, Texas, that has 20 million bats. It's a colony. Wow. And every night they eat 200 tons of insects. 200 tons. And a lot of those insects are crop ruining insects. So farmers frequently take their hats off and wave to the bats in something of a salute when the bats fly by. Have you ever seen a farmer do that to a bat? Yeah, keep pumping roundup in one hand and waving it to the other. It'll bring a little tear to your eye. They are plant pollinators, like we said. They will go in and gather nectar. And when they do this, they get pollen on their bodies. When they fly away, they spread that pollen. Right. So specifically, there are pollinators of bananas, figs, mangoes, cashews and agave. So if you are hammered on tequila right. Now, think of that. And you mentioned that colony in Texas, in Austin, right? Yeah. Under the Congress Avenue bridge. Very famous spot to in fact, it's a big tourist attraction now. They've embraced, so they're bringing tourist dollars into they pollinate, they eat pest, bugs and they bring in the tourists. Yeah, I think some of them are uber drivers as well. They're just trying to eke out a living. Yeah, exactly. What else? Let's talk about the guano. You know what that is? It's poop, it's bat poop. And guano is very rich in nitrogen and is a great fertilizer. And not only that, but at one point, the US Army, and even further back, the Southern Army, the Confederate Army, I believe they're called, they collected bat guano to use his gunpowder, explosives. They extracted the salt peter from it crazy. And I had no idea. Yeah, it actually extended the Civil War because once all their fortifications. Were destroyed. They literally went and collected guano from batcaves to keep making bombs. Bombs. But gunpowder. And again, it is also like a top notch fertilizer that's still in use today. Like you can buy bat guano at the average nursery, probably. And it wasn't bad guano, but burguano, too, has been used and wars have been fought over it's. Such an effective crazy fertilizer and power energy source that yeah, it's pretty interesting stuff. Go read I can't remember talks about this. You too. On the scarier side, though, you did mention vampire bats, and they do feed on blood, but this article is keen to point out that they are not bloodthirsty man hunters. No, they're man stalkers. They'll eat a cow. When I say eat a cow, they won't eat a cow. No cow. It doesn't hurt the cow that much, right? No. Unless the cow contracts an infection or something from it. Yeah. Vampire bats usually need about one to two tablespoons of blood a night, which you can easily get from a cow without any harm to the cow as far as blood loss goes. Right, sure. And the cow typically doesn't even know what's going on because the vampire bats have very sharp teeth that don't really make much of a sensation going in. And the saliva has an anticoagulant in it, so the blood just kind of trickles out and keeps coming, and then the vampire bat flies away. What's interesting about them, though, is they don't fly on to you, they fly near you, and then they stalk you on all fours, which makes it super creepy. Yeah. Even though I love bats, a crawling bat with those wings is a little creepy. Coming to suck your blood? Yeah. No, it's not sucking blood, remember, it's an anti coagulant, so it just opens up, lapping up blood. Apparently, they also have a cool little organ in their nose. It's like a heat sensing organ, so they can find where the blood is closest to the skin. Oh, really? And then go, wow. And then go, let's talk about reproduction for a second. They reproduce typically only once a year. Oh, battery production. Yeah. You thought of it just like us. I thought you had to sing salt and pepper. They reproduce typically only once a year, and that makes them it's tough. They're some of the least producing mammals in the world. Yeah. They produce one baby a year. Yeah. On average. Some can reproduce more. Yeah. But that doesn't happen that much. They're called pups, which is very cute. A pup weighs 25% of the mother's body weight, which is remarkable because they often nurse while the mother's flying around. Yeah. So that would be like 120 pound woman having a 30 pound baby attached to her while she's flying. Exactly. Yeah. They live, like we said, in large colonies, and so it's not hard to find a mate. But once the females get pregnant, they tend to form a maternal colony, a maternity colony within the colony. It's pretty neat. Yeah. Apparently bats are very altruistic. Like, they've recorded acts of bats going and bringing food back for bats who are sick in the colony. Yeah, that's pretty neat. You don't find that very often in nature. No. Not even with man, right. In many cases, yeah. So they'll form that little maternity colony, which is super sweet because the men don't really stick around and help raise the young. Evidently, they just do their thing and they're gone. And apparently the colonies are men tend to hang out with men and women tend to hang out with women. Anyway, it's like an 8th grade dancing there. Absolutely. So what happens is the women care for their offspring for a while, but they don't have a whole lot of time to do it. About six weeks to four months. And then the bat is fully independent and can fly on its own, which is great. And this is the second part of the podcast to me. Okay. The female bat is so smart, they can delay their fertilization based on the best time to have a baby bat. Really? Yeah. So they can have the sex in the fall and hold that sperm and release the sperm to meet the eggs, like six months later in the spring. Wow. Isn't that amazing? That is very neat. They've learned to actually control their own cycle. They have some serious willpower. Well, they want to survive. They are ultimate survivors. You know, bats have a real problem facing them right now, Chuck, with white nose fungus. I know. And this is sort of well, it's not only a threat, but it's a bit of a mystery, isn't it? Like, why it's so widespread all of a sudden? Well, it's just spreading like wildfire. In part because back colonies are so huddled and close together. From what I understand, it's just the ones that hibernate that are having the problem because this white nose fungus is a fungus that grows on their nose and apparently the itch makes the bats that are hibernating wake up. And when they wake up, they're in big trouble because an animal that hibernates has just enough energy store to make it through the hibernation period. If they wake up and blow a bunch of energy, like bringing their metabolism and body heat back up to normal levels and then try to go back into hibernation, they'll starve to death before the winter is over. Wow. So this white fungus grows on their noses and other parts, but typically on the nose and wakes them up. And then they spend all their energy and end up dying, or they die from exposure to these winter temperatures and that kind of thing. That's awful. Yes, and apparently it is really deadly. Like, some hibernaculus, which is like a hibernating colony, have like a 90% to 100% mortality rate when white nose fungus gets a hold of them. Holy cow. Yeah, and it's a real problem. They don't know how to stop it. Well, another real problem is in places, some parts of South America, when there's a rabies fear going around, like an outbreak in the town, they will bomb a cave full of bats. Blow it up. They will blow it up. And let's say there's 100,000 bats in there, and .5% of those have rabies. So that's 500 rabid bats. They're killing off 100,000. And then they're like, what's up with all these mosquitoes? Why do I have malaria? Well, either that or the bats. They go after the ones they can easily find in caves, which are the ones that pollinate. They're not even vampire bats, so they're not getting rabies from them anyway. So they're killing a bunch of bats that aren't spreading rabies at all. Well, I mean, leaving the ones that actually are. Right, but most pollinating bats don't come into contact with humans. Exactly. The vampire bats are the ones you would have to really worry about catching rabies from. Yeah. So they're not even getting the ones that are spreading the rabies. Just misinformation. There's one more threat from humans that started to come to shape and fruition, but didn't fully back in World War II. Did you hear about bat bombs? No. So there was a dude in the US. Who had this great idea, and it was attaching incendiary bombs to bats and then releasing the bats in Japan. That's a pretty good idea. So this guy apparently had the ear of I read this in an Atlantic article. This guy had the ear of Eleanor Roosevelt, and it ended up becoming like an army research project that went far enough along that there were mishaps. Like an airplane hangar blew up because some bats got released prematurely. A general's car blew up for the same reason, and it almost happened, and then they just dropped it. What did Eleanor Roosevelt have to do with it? Well, she was the First Lady at the time. Well, I know, but since when the First Lady is not work with education and nutrition? How about Bombat? Eleanor Roosevelt definitely was seated at the right hand of the seat of power. She was a sharp lady. Crazy. Yeah. Bat bombs. Well, she wasn't that sharp. She thought that was a good idea. I have the impression that she was doing it as a favor. Like getting this guy entree to the army. The war room. Yeah. So that's Eleanor Roosevelt. You got anything else? No. If you want to know more about bats, you can type the word into the search bar@housetuffworks.com. And again, go look up bat eating a banana. It's so adorable. Yeah, or the little baby bat burritos. They have, like, nurseries with a bunch of them, like, nursing on bottles and wrapped up in little swaddles. So cute. Very cute. And since I said adorable, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this one of the ten people that saw us perform in Washington Square Park. Oh, yeah, the ten, yes. So they get in any one of you if you email us. I'll read it on the air. All of them are missing time. Long time listener and fan here, guys. I introduced my boyfriend to the podcast as well. He saved us many hours of boredom on road trips. I have to say, the recent episode about how Nazis attempted to invade Long Island in Florida was one of my favorites ever. We got a lot of great response from that one, by the way. I lived in New York City for eight years now and spent lovely summer days on magnificenth beach Amiganset. So the thought of a U boat rolling up there and depositing German spies with plans to attack New York is particularly chilling. My boyfriend and I attended your show in Washington Square Park and your big live show in New York City this summer. And the latter is why I'm writing. I felt you should know. As a result of the topic you chose for the show, you cost me several nights of kitchen cleanup duty before the show. We were grabbing drinks next door and decided to make things interesting with a little bit as to what the topic would be. We came up with six possible categories. We thought it could fall into biology, geography, history, physics, current events and political social. It could have fallen into three of those. Yes. And we're not going to reveal it here, by the way, people, because we're touring that same show. We got at least one more go round in this fall. And so if you have seen the show, we're going to say this again and again, don't come again unless you just want to. Yeah, some people, like, follow the Grateful Dead or Fish around, see the same show. No, they play a different show every night. That's why they follow them around. Well, not completely different. Every night pretty much different. That's impossible. No, I mean, like, they play a different show every night. Well, they might alter songs, but they don't have 3000 songs. They have a lot of songs. These people see them hundreds of nights in a row. Yeah. All right, well, maybe we have some stuff heads that want to follow us around. Yeah, maybe stuff they're all like driving around in vans. Yeah. We mix our show up a little bit. Sure. All right. I think that's a good public announcement, though, like what you just did. Thank you. So we scribbled these down on napkin, did the draft style selection, went back and forth picking categories. I had a feeling. I was confident with my chances. At the moment you announced the topic blank, I knew I'd lost. He had political, social and current events, so that's a bit of a hint. Yes. It's not biology. Anyway, guys who really enjoyed the live shows and hope you come back to New York soon. And that is from Natalie brightbach and her boyfriend Hagen. Really? Yeah. Hagen. H-A-G-A-N hagin. I work with Hagen. All right. I would say it should be Hagen. And if they got married, he should take her last name. It'd be Hagen brightbach. That's a good one. That's a great name, but it sounds like there's, UMLA, all over the place. All over. Well, if you want to get in touch with us to let us know how great you thought our show is or how excited you are about seeing our show, we would like to hear from you. You can tweet to us at FYs k podcast. You can join us on facebook.com stuffyheanow. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast at how steveworks.com and as always, has joined us at our home on the web stuffyoushineo.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseworks.com." | ||
42e8ddfc-53a3-11e8-bdec-d748a3962c4b | The Tulsa 'Race Riots' | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/the-tulsa-race-riots | In reality, the Tulsa "race riots" of 1921 was more like a massacre. Yet it was almost lost to history until 1997, and still not widely known outside of Oklahoma until HBO's The Watchmen put it on the cultural map. Learn all about this dark chapter in American history today. | In reality, the Tulsa "race riots" of 1921 was more like a massacre. Yet it was almost lost to history until 1997, and still not widely known outside of Oklahoma until HBO's The Watchmen put it on the cultural map. Learn all about this dark chapter in American history today. | Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2020, tm_mon=1, tm_mday=16, tm_hour=10, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=16, tm_isdst=0) | 44382741 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to Stuff you should Know, a production of iheartradios how Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles, W, Chuck. Brian over there. There's Jerry over here. We have all come together year in the year 2020. Wear silver jumpsuits, as always. I know, right? And talk about a buried, overlooked blemish in the history of the United States. Are we not going to recount? No. Anything about this past year? No. Talk about this being the first recording of the new year? No. All right. We've had a break here. I'm going to push forward. We've been off for a couple of weeks, which was pretty glorious to not have to just over text my brain. But it was also nice to get back in here to the stink of this room. I don't think this room stinks. Well, right now it smells like your caramel vanilla frappalape. This is just black coffee. It just happens to be flavored black coffee. It smells great. I think Green Mountain or something. Caramel vanilla coffee. Pod man. It is super fragrant. Yeah, it's nice in a great way. It smells like an ice cream sundae. It's pleasant. It is very pleasant, but it's not doing the job. Like, I'm still I'm a little tired, a little groggy. You know, I had a four shot latte earlier. Oh, yeah. And so I'm kind of got you. Maybe that's what I need. I'm zippy and go downstairs. I know you don't like to pay for coffee, but go downstairs to Spiller Park. Okay. Hugh Atchison's place. A four shot latte. Yes. Okay. That has me going. Well, I give it about a half hour before Chuck crashes everybody. Yeah, seriously. Anyway, I'm glad to be back. Well, I'm glad you're back, too. You know, I've been here the whole time. This is where you spent Christmas and New Year's. Yes. Both in this room and Thanksgiving. And I guess you, me, and Momo slept over there in the corner. They come to visit sometimes. They say, Please, come on, please stop working. I say, I can't. They slide the food tray through the slot. You know where I got this idea? And I know you haven't watched it, but the watchman I came across mention of that. I was like, why is everyone talking about the watchmen with the Tulsa Race Riot? Or more appropriately, why is everyone all of a sudden talking about the Tulsa Massacre? Yeah. Because the watchman really put it on the map in a big way. Yeah, that's great. Utilized it quite well in the storyline. And I have a recommendation for everyone, even though it is a marketing piece. There's a thing in The Atlantic called The Massacre of Black Wall Street paid for by HBO, but it tells the story in comic book form in the Atlantic. Very cool. And I didn't notice it was a marketing piece until afterwards. But I'm like, well, it's still good. Sure. As long as the content is good. Yeah, it's cool and very well done. So it's great that the Watchman has brought attention to this, because it wasn't until about 2001, maybe the late 90s, really, that people started talking about this. I know. And this event that we're going to talk about happened in 1921 and almost the week after, basically the week after, everyone said, don't talk about this. Just forget it ever happened. We're moving forward, and we're going to bury the past. Literally buried people, the evidence, all the stuff that was buried, and people just acted like nothing happened in Tulsa, Oklahoma, for, like, 80 years. And when you hear what we're about to talk about, it's astounding that the community, both black and white, agreed to just basically pretend this never happened, at least publicly or civically. Yeah. And it's hard to find some of some information still on some of the key events and definitely some of the key players, because a lot of them died of old age without ever having been interviewed. Yeah. No follow ups. We'll get to it. But a couple of the most key players is like, this is kind of all we know. Right. I looked them up, too, and it's like, what do you mean? You have no idea even who this guy was, let alone what became of them. What do you mean? Like, no one kept track, but that's how complete in total this cover up was. It was a cover up. So let's talk about it first. Let's talk about Greenwood, which I was not familiar with, but Greenwood was an affluent, I guess almost suburb adjacent to Tulsa, just north of Tulsa. And what was odd about the fact that it was affluent is that it was an all black community in the turn of the last century, and yet it was one of the most affluent communities in the entire United States. Yeah. I mean, now it's just part of Tulsa, like a neighborhood, but back then, just sort of like my neighborhood would have been a suburb of Atlanta in the 1920s, even though I'm 5 miles from downtown. Right, exactly. But in 1921, it was, like you said, super affluent. They had a lot of I think there were 10,000 black residents there called the Black Wall Street, like I mentioned, and 600 businesses. There were 15 African American millionaires living in this district. Yeah. 15 black millionaires in 1921 in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Yes. The whole area was very well to do. There was, like, indoor plumbing. The public schools there were top notch, and in many cases, Greenwood had a lot to boast about that. The white areas in Tulsa just over the railroad tracks, literally on the other side of the track, didn't have this is far better off than some parts of white Tulsa. Yeah. Including one of the top African American surgeons, if not the top in the country, endorsed by Dr. Mao himself, the Mayo brothers. Yeah. This guy's, Dr. AC. Jackson, and he was one of the people murdered in this massacre. Yeah, I was going to say it was a spoiler, but I guess we've already kind of mentioned there's a massacre coming, right? Yeah. So just to take a step back even further. So it's pretty impressive to think of, like, this is the Jim Crow era United States. Yes, we're talking about this massacre took place in 1921. That's 50 years after the end of the Civil War. In many ways, the Jim Crow era was just as bad as the antebellum slavery era. The idea to us today, looking back at this time of, well, there's a black community in Oklahoma that was one of the most affluent areas in the country. It's kind of mind boggling, but if you dig even deeper into how it was formed, almost, you develop, like, a sense of pride in this, that these people came together under these conditions and not only survived, but thrived and created carved out a place for themselves where being black was celebrated and where you could be proud. And you took pride in your home, in your children and your children's education and the health care that they were getting in the bus service and the quality of the theater that you went to, the confectionery, the soda fountain. That's where you went to go, like, proposed marriage. There was this incredibly developed community, and one of the ways that it was able to flourish and was able to kind of grow like this is because the first thing that Oklahoma did when it became a state, remember, it was originally a territory for forced relocation of Native American right. And their African slaves to this area. When it became a state, when the white settlers came in and said, no, we want this instead, we're going to take this territory we gave you away, and turn it into states. The first piece of legislation they passed was that black people have to stay in their own area. They can't marry outside their race. Right. They can't frequent white owned businesses. They have to stay over here. And so the people agreement said, fine with us. We're going to pass a covenant that says you have to be a black person to own land here or even rent a place here, don't business here. It's a covenant restricted community. And we're going to take a tremendous amount of pride and in circulating our currency, our hardearned money that we're making by working for these white businesses that we're not allowed to patronize, right. We're going to go make our own businesses over here, and we're going to support them with our community, not only because we can't spend our money elsewhere, but because we have a lot of pride in the businesses that we've built over here. And so in this way, Greenwood flourished because of and in spite of these Jim Crow era laws that black people had to deal with in Oklahoma at the time. Yeah. And this was dave Ruse helped us put this together. And some of the research he got was from the book The Burning Massacre destruction and the Tulsa Race Ride of 1921 by Tim Madigan. And very astutely points out that this happened in Oklahoma, of course, but this kind of thing was happening all over the country, not just in the south or whatever you call Oklahoma. I guess the west. Midwest. Yes, but not Midwest. I don't know. I think we just call it Oklahoma. It's interesting, some people there identify with the south, but if you're from Georgia, Oklahoma, it's not the south. Might as well be Montana. I think of Oklahoma is like Native America. Yeah. Is that what it says on the license plate? Maybe it says middle of the country with a little apostrophe. And there's a picture of the Mountain Dew logo. But this is happening everywhere. In 1919, there were two dozen race riots in places like Chicago, Washington, DC. St. Louis. In between the end of the Civil War and World War II, there were more than 4000 lynchings in the United States. Right. It's important to point that out because and we'll get into the story here, but a lynching is what was the aim of the white people of Oklahoma on this night? Right, but I have seen also, one of the reasons why I went to so much links to explain Greenwood in part was to show what was lost here, but also to show there are a lot of people who consider this massacre to have been carried out or fueled in part by envy. Right. Because the people of Greenwood were so much better off in some instances and the white people who were carrying out this massacre. All right, maybe we should take a break. No. And then we'll come back man, we got to start 2020 with an argument over a break. Yeah, let's do it. All right, let's take a break. We'll come back and talk a little bit about the beginnings of what would end up being the Tulsa Massacre. All right? So we should talk about the key player here. Or players. And in this case, it is Diamond Dick Rowland. One of the greatest names I've ever heard in my life. It's pretty good. He was a shoe shine boy in Tulsa, and by all accounts he was smart and he was a handsome young guy. And he was sort of a man about town. He was popular with the ladies. Have the world on a string. Yeah, pretty much. And there was a girl named Sarah Page who ran an elevator at the Drexel Building, a building that I have walked past with my own 2ft. Oh, wow. Right. And she was white. She was white. And Dick thought she was cute. And he would go down there and basically kind of make up excuses to ride her elevator okay. I saw something different than that. Yeah. I thought that he was on the elevator because he could use the segregated bathroom on the top floor of the Drugstore building only. So he had to ride up the elevator, up and down to get to the bathroom. The closest bathroom for him to be able to use. That's what I saw. So you're saying he didn't fancy Sarah Page at all? I don't know. But I also saw a different explanation for why he would have been on the elevator as often as he supposedly was. All right. Maybe it was both. Yeah. Maybe he went to the bathroom a little more often than he had to, because I did think Sarapage is cute. Who knows? I'm not saying they necessarily contradict each other. I'm just saying I've seen other explanations as well. I got you. That sounded very lawyerly for some reason, didn't it? Maybe this is the new year in 2020. Matlock Josh Clark Esquire. Yeah. Esprit. That's different than Esquire. So, at any rate, we should probably also point out that mixed race couples still get sideways looks in some parts of America today. But certainly in 1921, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, the idea of a black man fancy a white woman even looking at a white woman yeah. It was not only untoward, but, like a threat worthy of a lynching. Right. It was still that time in America where, if you made any advances, that was sort of the biggest fear for some white men, was black men coming in and taking, quote unquote, their women. Yeah. Which is character popularized thanks to Birth of a Nation, which depicts the clan coming to the aid of white women who were about to be raped by maniacal black men who just couldn't help themselves. They were just so in love with white women that they just had to rape. That was just what black guys did. That was the view of black guys at the time. That's just how it was. So to white people, you kept an eye out for that. When you saw a black man and there was a white woman over there, you want to make sure that he wasn't going to rape her. That was the mentality that people were walking around with back then. Yeah. That movie was actually partially shot in my old neighborhood in La. You have a lot to do with this episode. Well, it's just weird to think about Birth of a Nation being shot in Los Feles, which is this very kind of hip community on the east side of Hollywood. Sure. But anyway, on May 30, 1921, dick Rowland went into that elevator to either flirt or use the restroom or both. And what I saw was that it was well known that the third floor landing did not land flush with the threshold. And supposedly, this is why, as the story goes, dick Rowland tripped when he was getting onto the elevator. So maybe if that bathroom was on the third floor, that could make sense. I heard top floor. I don't know how many floors of the door. I don't remember, actually. Is it more than three? I don't know. I don't remember, actually. I don't think they call a building to something building if it only has three floors. You know what I mean? You're probably right. That's like an eight plus floor moniker. I think. You're probably right. But at any rate, he gets on the elevator, as the story goes, stumbles, getting on and kind of falls forward and grabs her arm, which was kind of the first thing that he could get a hold of to keep from falling. Right. As the story goes, she started beating him over the head with her purse because I guess it's an old Looney Tunes cartoon. She didn't have a rolling pin. And the elevator opened on the ground floor. People see this sort of scuffle going on, or what appears to be a scuffle. She allegedly cries out that she had been assaulted, and people on the first floor called the police as Dick flees on foot. Right. Just takes off. Yeah. And, you know, no one knows exactly how this all went down. No one even knows exactly who Diamond Dick Rowland was or Sarah Page. Yeah. For that matter. Bizarre. Yeah. All we found out was that she was an orphan. She could have been as young as 16. I've seen reports of 17 and was working to pay her way through business college. That's what the Tulsa Tribune reported, like, the day after. Yeah, and I saw that elsewhere, but I also saw literally nothing else about her. I didn't find anything. And then Dick, Roland, they think that he might have possibly been named Jimmy Jones. Right, I saw that, too. And who was raised by his grandparents, whose last name was Roland, so he took their name. And there is a guy who would have matched his birth date named Jimmy Jones that they found buried in Tulsa, but he died, like, two months before these events took place, so it couldn't possibly been him. Yeah. They were a few years apart, too, I think. Right. Oh, was it? Yeah. Okay. But it's unbelievable that so much of this is lost to history. Yeah. These two people set off one of the most despicable events that has ever taken place in this country's. History just vanish almost after this point. It's just, you guys played your role. Now everyone else is going to step in. So Dick goes home, I guess he tells his mom what happened, and she obviously was pretty scared right away because she knew probably what this meant. But for that night at least, nothing really happened. The next day, he goes out to meet up with some friends, and the Tulsa police pull up and take him in, basically on an assault charge. Right. Which is I don't know why they didn't go pick them up at home or whatever, but I also read somewhere that they had arrested them on the spot. But your recounting matches what I've seen mostly. Right? Yeah, but that's history, especially suppressed history. Right. One person writes and then somebody else reports, and then enough people report it, and then that's fact. Exactly. That's the story. Either way, he came into police custody. We know that is the way it is. And then this is like a white sheriff named William Sullivan, I think. Right. William McCullough. McCullough. I was very close. Yeah. When you're starting to read the story, you hear about this white mustache sheriff and immediately think, oh, boy, this guy's in trouble. Well, this guy had replaced the last guy that was in trouble right. Who had allowed a white mob to take an arrested black man out of his custody and lynch him. Oh. It says here it was a white person. Is that not true? I think that's wrong. Okay. Either way, he let somebody be lynched by an angry mob. Yeah. Which I thought for sure Sheriff McCullough was going to do. But apparently McCullough was intent on kind of going by the book. He followed the heck Tate School of sheriffing. How do you know that? From Tequila Mockingbird. Oh, right. Which was, hey, let's let the law play out. Let's give him a stay in court. There will be no lynchings on my watch. Right. So he took Diamond Dick up to a room on the upper floor. The only way to get there was this one staircase. So we basically, strategically hit him out, went down to this white crowd and said, there's not going to be any lynching today, like Chuck said. The thing is, we've left out a really important point here. Yeah. Like, why was there a white crowd to begin with? Right. There is a newspaper that was called the Tulsa Tribune that ran an article about Sarah Page being assaulted. This is a news article, and the headline for said news article was, NAB Negro for Attacking Girl in Elevator. Not people might NAB negro for attacking girl in elevator. Police worried white mob might NAB it's. NAB, like, go do this. Yes. That was the headline for the article. The editorial took it even a step further. And this is the day after this event took place? Yes. The editorial was to lynch Negro tonight. And I got to say, whoever's writing these headlines, it's inflammatory, of course, but they also don't make much sense. Yeah. They're of poor construction. They're very poor construction. And I went to try and find the microfilm of this, and I think the first one is available, but blurry. The second one, the only copy of that paper they have is a front page with an article cut out that scanned in. And everyone's like, this must have been that editorial. Sure. But I literally couldn't find any because I was kind of curious to read just how poor of a writer this person was, right. And get probably what would not have been accurate details. No, they basically reported in the first one, in the actual article, that her clothes had been torn out. They really characterized it like he attacked her like a sexual assault. Right, exactly. And then the second one is just basically like an all out editorial calling for Dick Rowland's lynching. This is in the paper. So the local newspaper has inflamed the white citizenry into basically calling them to action to go do something about this. And they all show up at the courthouse to demand that Sheriff McCullough hand over Dick Rowland to them so they can go lynch him. And he says, no, back off. No. But I think he tells them, like, no, I'm not doing that, like you said. But before the crowd disperses, a second group comes. And it's actually a group of World War One veterans from Greenwood who had found out that this white mob was going to lynch Dick Rowland. And they were like, no, they're not. We're going to go see to it that doesn't happen. Yeah, I mean, there were hundreds of WWE black veterans in Greenwood. They were people who fought for this country. And it's sort of that familiar, despicable story. Shed blood on European soil. Come back home to America and you're still a second class citizen. They had petitioned to and this is just sort of a sidebar. They had petitioned to walk in the Memorial Day parade for many years and were always refused. And May 30 was Memorial Day. And that same year they had once again said, can we participate in the Memorial Day parade as veterans? They say, no, we're only going to honor the white veterans. No, I think they wanted to be integrated in the parade with the white veterans just as World War I veterans marching together. And they said, no, whites only. You can march by yourself. Oh, really? And when they did march, they were taunted and jeered at Got You by the people who are watching the parade. So these are the people that got guns and came down there and said, not on our watch. We're not going to let this happen. And it kind of plays out as a film from the sounds of it, is like, these cars pull in and part the crowd and these black veterans get out with their guns and they're like, no, you're not taking this kid. This is not going to happen. Right. So apparently Sheriff McCullough was able to convince the Greenwood World War I veterans who showed up that he wasn't going to hand over Dick Roll and that he's going to protect Dick Roll. And then they should probably just go, he's going to get rid of this white crowd, too. But don't worry, I'm not like the old sheriff. Yeah. And there's about 75 armed men. Yeah. And I used to drive it home. Like, how many people? I read that I saw thousands somewhere of white people at the courthouse. Like it was just calling for a lynching. Yeah. They were heavily outmanned. Yeah. But 75 black veterans showed up in the midst of this. Let's even say it's just 1000. Let's even say it's like 500 people calling for a lynching, and you're 75 black men showing up, arms, saying, like, no, it's not happening. Just pretty courageous stuff, right? Yeah. So before they can leave, or as they're leaving, it's actually not clear what this event's name gets its name from. Happens what you would call a race riot. Yeah. It looks like it might have been on the way to being a scene that the sheriff managed successfully. They might have been on the way out. That white crowd might have dispersed if not for this one incident. And even if we did know, just beat by beat the history of this, you still wouldn't be able to see what would have happened. But exactly. That is a possible outcome. There was an older white man who demanded that one of these black veterans give him his gun. And the black veteran said, no, I'm not going to do that. And the old white man went to go grab it, and the gun went off, and both sides just started shooting at one another. Yeah, that's what triggered it. It was chaos. It was a hail of bullets. People on both sides just started dropping dead from the bullets flying, and it became a full on war scene, basically for the next couple of days. Right. Okay. So at that point, the black veterans are like, we really should get out of here. Yeah. They leave toward Greenwood. Toward Greenwood, which is their home. They're going back to their homes, and along the way, some of them drop back and, like, stake out positions and start sniping at the white rioters who are coming after them. And at that point, they go further back into Greenwood. And by this time, it's like the early morning hours of, I believe June 1. Right. I don't think it was the early morning at that point. It was like midnight. I mean, like midnight one, something like that. Yeah, it's during the nighttime. And this is when the white people started breaking into the hardware stores and looting businesses to get weapons. Yeah. Because here's the thing. So that Sheriff McCullough, who you're kind of like, okay, as far as this whole story goes, that's not so bad. Like, he at least tried now. The moment this race riot happened and the black veterans took off back for Greenwood, he started deputizing white rioters, handing out guns and ammunition, and basically saying, go get them. Go get those guys. And rather than saying like, this is not your job. This is my responsibility, you all go home. I'm going to go handle this. He enlisted the help of these people who are involved in this riot on the white side. And at that point, any semblance of what you would call a race riot ended in what became a revenge massacre just started. People call this the Tulsa Race Riot, and I think maybe a 10th of it qualifies as a race riot. And the rest, it just should be called the Tulsa Massacre. Yeah. So what happens is, like you said, some of these veterans get staked out in strategic positions on rooftops and behind houses, behind cars. The White Army, for lack of a better word, is advancing into Greenwood. They start setting fires at the strategic locations to flush out these snipers, and then they just start burning everything, basically. Right. Setting fire to every house and every business to burn down Greenwood. Well, I think also for about four or 5 hours from the time where they managed to flush the snipers out until about five in the morning, they were quietly taking up positions inside Greenwood. And then a whistle blew at about 05:00 a.m., and all of them just came out from their positions, and then they just went berserk. It was a charge, a full on, like, military charge, coordinated assault on Greenwood. And so this assault involved driving people out of their homes at gunpoint. Any resistance that people were shot on site? Apparently there were people who weren't offering resistance. There was a story about an elderly couple who were kneeling in their house, praying, and they were both executed by these white mobsters in their home. People were burned alive. Houses and people doused with kerosene and burned alive. Right. It was another story of a blind beggar who was tied to a car and dragged through the streets. I mean, it was just bedlam and watchmen actually gets pretty graphic in how they depict this, even though it's an alternate history show, just like the movie in the graphic novel, where I think they did pretty decent justice. They didn't follow the origin story of how it started, but it just placed heavily into the plot line. Right? Yeah. Should we take another break? Sure. All right, let's take another break, and we'll tell you what happened from here. Okay, so we actually took a commercial break in the midst of a massacre. The thing is, people are being driven out of their houses and shot in some cases, but more often than not, they're being just flushed out. But no house, no building, no business, no nothing was spared. The intent of these white terrorists there's really no other name for them, was to burn down Greenwood. And firefighters were kept at bay. Yeah, they said, do not come in here. The rioters will kill you. Just stay away. They burned Greenwood to the ground. 35 blocks. 35 blocks. Do you know how many blocks that is? Think about how many blocks is 35 blocks and then add, like, ten, because I guarantee your conception. Is less than actually 35 blocks. That is a lot of blocks of buildings burned to the ground. People killed in their front yards, including Doctor Andrew C. Jackson, the famous surgeon, shot like a dog in his own front yard. In the chest there's a picture of them. 1200 homes, churches, schools, hospital, library. I think I mentioned there were 600 businesses total. Right. They were all torched. Just torch. There were six people who owned airplanes. They were that wealthy in Greenwood. Yeah. Their airplanes were stolen by the rioters and used to drop bombs, dynamite, nitroglycerin, fire. And then there was also accusations that the National Guard was helping coordinate this too. Yeah, the National Guard was called in, and when they got there, by all accounts, they did not try to help quell the riot. They more acted as helping to arrest black men. Well, that's just historical fact. Yeah. They were killing people for sure, but they were also arresting black men. The women and children fled. I think 6000 people were arrested and the women and children fled toward the woods, basically leaving behind everything they owned who are homeless. There was 10,000 people who lived in Greenwood at the time. And after this one night, this orgy of violence, there were like 9000 left homeless and hundreds dead. Yeah. And apparently back to the National Guard. They said that they brought in planes just to spot fires and coordinate ground security. But there are reports from people there that said that no, they were actually shooting at people on the ground. Say that that's a rumor. Yeah. Even setting that aside, the National Guard didn't come in and quell anything. They just started arresting and detaining the victims of this massacre. That was the role that they played in this situation. That's right. So the whole thing culminates with in the end, it's really hard to get the amount of people killed. I think the official report says 35 black people. It's certainly way more than that. I've seen all the way up to 300. That's what I saw almost across the board is 300. Yeah. That, again, might be one of those things that everyone just sort of settled on a number, but it was not 35 people, to be sure. No, definitely not. And so as the sun comes up the day after, I think, June 1, greenwoods burned to the ground, there's people hiding in the woods. Thousands and thousands of former affluent residents of this black community homeless, are now homeless? Well, no, they're not homeless because the National Guard has very kindly put them in detention centers at the fairgrounds. That doesn't qualify as a home. Right, that's my point. Yeah, it's not a home. Right. They're kept detained at the fairgrounds for months. I saw that in some cases, most of them had to endure the winter. This happened in May. These people were still a lot of them kept in detention camps at the fairgrounds through the winter. Yeah. Tulsa winters and summers are both tough. They were kept in detention camps because white rioters burned their town to the ground. Yeah. And this was in June, right. Do the math. Right. Yeah, it was June. I guess it was the end of May. So the way that you got out of these detention centers was your white employer came and vouched for you and said, this person works for me. I need them back. Please let him go. That's how you got out? Yeah. So in the aftermath, no one was arrested? There were no prosecutions? No. I'm sorry, Chuck. There was a grand jury that was sat or convened. They indicted 20 people. All of them were black. Well, none were white. Yeah, that's what I meant on the white side. Okay. In today's dollars, between 50 and $100 million worth of damage. Everywhere I look said the only organization that really helped, and they really helped was the American Red Cross. Super brave, and did a whole lot. And I also saw where it wasn't the entire city of Tulsa. Apparently there were some white communities that reached out in the aftermath, of course, to help with the recovery efforts to take people in. So we don't want to paint the entire town as doing the wrong thing. Apparently, some people did step up. Sure. I mean, just nothing is that literally black and white. There's always shades of gray in that situation, in any situation. Yeah, but Greenwood came back. It's probably not a surprise, but the insurance companies had it classified very quickly as a riot instead of just a violent massacre, because that means they wouldn't have to compensate people for their homes being businesses being burned to the ground. Right. Because if they were rioting, then they were culpable for that damage. Insurance company just despicable. Yeah. So also despicable. The county commission said, no, we're not accepting any outside donations. We'll take care of our own, and then didn't follow through on that at all. So there were no funds paid to the Greenwood people, and people were trying to reparations or to even help them rebuild. And the county commission, I guess, proposed at one point that they would handle this by buying the land for a fraction of its market value and then auctioning it off to the highest bidder. That was one proposal. That old scam. And they also said, well, you know what? Just to make sure that this doesn't happen again, we're going to establish a new building code for Greenwood. No building can be rebuilt unless it's built with fireproof bricks. And then they went to the fireproof brick producers and said, do not sell any materials to the black people of Greenwood. So despite this, they managed to rebuild in about five years astoundingly the people whose houses in town was burned to the ground came back and rebuilt. And from just about everything I read, greenwood was actually better, more prosperous and more affluent from the second time around than it was even the first. And it was pretty affluent the first time. And Chuck, we said like, hundreds of people were killed, right? Yes. So get this, funerals were forbidden. Like you weren't allowed to have a funeral. That's how covered up this thing became. Yeah. And one of the reasons we'll never know how many people were killed is because the people who were killed were taken off and dumped in the river, or stashed in coal mines or buried in mass unmarked graves. Well, they think they found two of those, like a month ago. Yes. They're archaeologists in Tulsa, and this was from Time magazine, from Jasmine Aguilera. They have identified two sites that they thought were that they think now are mass graves. And they've been looking since, I think, 2001, because they knew people there were reports of mass graves. And so archeologists have been looking, and in 2018, they started like a legit investigation, and they think that they have found one, at least one, maybe two of these sites, which is in the cemetery, ironically. Yeah, I saw that. But even this whole thing is fairly new. It wasn't like until the late ninety s that people even started talking about this. Right. Yeah. 1997 was when the state of Oklahoma introduced a bill. And this was after just not talking about it. No. In the black community, they would talk about it in stories and whispers. The white community just buried it and the state of Oklahoma just didn't acknowledge it. Yeah. The last thing I saw about it was the Tulsa Tribune ran another editorial on June 4, a few days after basically saying, like, lynching fail. No. They said thank you to the police and all the white citizens who cleaned up Tulsa by getting rid of Greenwood. It's actually way worse than what I just depicted, but I couldn't possibly bring myself to read it verbatim. It's just vile what it says. It's really bad. But in 97 is when they introduced a bill for reparations and creation of the Tulsa Race Riot Commission, and that report was released in 2001, and it did hold police and public officials to blame, but it didn't do anything. Basically, there were no reparations. As for Dick Rowland, the actual case, remember the case of the assault that was dismissed in September? Apparently Sarah Page didn't want to press forward with charges and she's lost the time. He supposedly immediately moved to Kansas City, maybe. And no one else really knows anything else about him. That's just so surprising. Yes. And if not for the watchman coming out, this might still be a fairly buried store outside of Oklahoma. It's really brought a lot of attention to it. Yeah. And good for them for doing that. Yeah. So one of the things I saw about Greenwood itself is that it kept prospering and flourishing for decades after this until about the sixties. And one of the reasons I saw that explained why not just Greenwood, but a lot of black areas started to decline in the 60s was a byproduct of integration, was that you could, as a black person in America, spend your black dollar at a white owned business. Right. They didn't teach us that in public school. This is a byproduct of it. But as a result, these blackowned businesses started to decline more and more and more. And so Greenwood wasn't as prosperous as it was before, but the death below the death blow is that remember in our Interstate episode where in a lot of the poor areas, a lot of the areas of color, that's where they built the highways. I saw that. They built I 244 right through Greenwood. Yeah. Tulsa is an interesting place. It's been a few weeks there a few years ago, and it's interesting because it's got this old oil money neighborhoods, some of the most amazing estates and houses I've ever seen. It's got some very poor communities, a lot of meth problems. It's an interesting place. Sounds like it. Yeah. Well, that's Tulsa for you. And you know what? I spent a few weeks there in this neighborhood, and I didn't know anything about it. Maybe there is a memorial or something, but I didn't notice it. I'm not saying there isn't one, but I didn't see it. So you know Desmond Tutu, who helped bring about the change over from apartheid to reconciliation? I love his work. Yeah, big fan. He came to Tulsa, basically said, you guys are sitting on a powder cake here. When was this? Not very long ago, I think. Maybe in the 90s, maybe even in the 2000s. Just basically saying, like, you can't how could you possibly heal when you still have bodies in on Mark Graves? Like, no one's talking about this still. I believe there is a park that they found, like a reconciliation park or something like that. But it sounds like there's still a ways to go. Yeah. Wouldn't it be ironic that it was Watchmen that basically is forcing this issue to be discussed? It'd be pretty ironic, yes. The power of comic books, right? Well, not even TV, I guess, of graphic novels. Yes. So if you want to know more about the Tulsa Massacre, also known as the Tulsa Race Riot of 1921, there's a lot for you to go read, thankfully. And you should just type that into your favorite search bar. Since I said that, it's time for listener mail. Hey, guys. This email is mostly for Chuck. I need to get something off my chest and clear some things up about my involvement with your pronunciation of Carrie. Elvis. Elvis. Sometime over the summer, I made a comment in the corrections corner thread of movie Crush on the Facebook page where you were pronouncing Carrie. Lwise I posted I had read on a reddit AMA. His name sounds like Elvis, but what I meant to say was it rhymes with Elvis. Is that why you said carry Elvis? Yeah, it's because of Eli. Wait, he says this? When I finally heard my name pop up in the podcast, I was thrilled and couldn't wait to hear your reaction. Not only did my comment get understandably misunderstood, but I've heard you reference the comment two or three times now and continue to correct yourself saying Elvis. Most recently on the Andre the Giant live episode parenthetical Josh said it right. I tried to issue another comment immediately afterwards to clear the air, but it was too late. You discontinued Corrections Corner. I did. I was going to do that on Movie Crush and it just became like, you said this wrong and your inflection and I was like, you said, Kubrick was great. He was very great. Yeah, it was a minute. It's like movie corrections, but you know how it goes. So I just said, no more of this. You don't understand how something like this, something small has been tearing me apart inside. Every time I hear you reference it. There's one thing worse than giving someone bad information. It's having them proliferate that information out in the world. In this case, to millions of well, not millions of people, trillions. I just want to apologize officially for correcting you on something so silly in any way you want to say. The name is fine by me, as long as it's what do you say? Elwith Ellis? I think Elwas. Thanks for the decade I don't know. Now Eli's got in my head, too. Thanks for the decade of great content. I'll see you both in January in Seattle for my third live show. Nice. All the best, Eli. It's Eli's third live show birthday, and I think it's pronounced L I. Oh, it could be Ellie. Could be. Yeah. We're just going to go with Eli then. Okay. I think L-E-L-L-I-E. It could be. I think Ellie Goulding is something different than that, isn't it? I don't know. Who is that? Or does she pronounce her name Eli? I don't know who that is. You do, too. You've heard of pop songs before when you're working out. Okay. If you want to get in touch with us, like Eli did, to let us know we're saying something wrong because of you, well, you can get in touch with us by going on to Stuffytnow.com. And you can also send us an email. Send it off to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is the production of Iheartradios how stuff works. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite show. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. There's a perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today." | |
How Futurology Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-futurology-works | Science fiction writers have made some amazingly accurate predictions over the years, but in 1945 the pace of technological change created a field that spun off of sci-fi forecasting, futurology. | Science fiction writers have made some amazingly accurate predictions over the years, but in 1945 the pace of technological change created a field that spun off of sci-fi forecasting, futurology. | Tue, 12 Jan 2016 19:25:34 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2016, tm_mon=1, tm_mday=12, tm_hour=19, tm_min=25, tm_sec=34, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=12, tm_isdst=0) | 38504143 | audio/mpeg | "This delightful program is brought to you by Squarespace, beautiful websites for beautiful bands like Walk the Moon Band.com. So the name of their tour is Talking is Hard. It's not that hard, guys. I'm doing it now. Most of the time I can't stop talking. I mean, you literally would have to cut me off one time. I told you. Yeah. Alec Baldwin. We get it. You are talking too much. But you like Squarespace, and we like Squarespace. So we appreciate you getting on our podcast to help us plug one of our great sponsors. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetofworkscom. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W, Chuck Bryant and Jerry's here. And it's stuff you should know from the future, but not really. How are you doing? I'm fine. Well, good. That's good. I enjoyed this topic. I thought it was kind of neat. Yeah, it was funny. When you're reading about futurology and futurologists, aka futurists, you tend to want to make it more than it actually is. And when you look into the topic, it keeps having to be beaten down just because of the name alone. Yeah. You sound like a little bit like a wackadoo a whackadoo say you're a futurist, a seer. Yeah. And sometimes they're thinking about they're using these really neat techniques to predict the future. They're talking about some really mundane stuff, boring stuff, economic forecasts, things like that. How much oil will be less than 30 years, that kind of thing. Then, on the other hand, if you're a futurologist, you may also be tasked with figuring out what technology we're going to be using in 30 years, or what color the shiny jumpsuits we're all going to wear, that kind of stuff. Yeah. I think one of my favorite things is to look at past future predictions. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. There's nothing that'll make someone look less knowledgeable than going back to what they thought the future would look like in the year two thousand s back in the 1930s or 40s or sometimes some of those things happen. Yeah. And then it's amazing. Yeah. That's like, wow, these guys are, like, really dead on. And I was reading an article, I think it was in Harvard Business Review, and it was a post by Paul Sappo, who runs a venture capital firm, I believe, called Discern. Yeah. And Paul Saffo was saying, like, he was trying to get across that scifi authors and futurologists, their paths overlap quite a bit, but really there's pretty big distinctions. And even in this article, they got lumped in together because Sci-Fi writers do definitely use futurology techniques, but Paul Sepho was saying, like, yeah, but a real futuralogist, you have to use logic. Whereas if you're a Sci-Fi writer, you just use your imagination. You don't have to back it up with anything. You're a meteorologist. You have to use logic that makes sense to whoever's hearing your prediction. Yeah. And I think that's one reason why some Sci-Fi writers have been right on the nose with some future predictions, because they're not hampered by logic, and they can just free form. Yeah, but then it's just a lucky guess. No, I don't think so. I think they're still applying a lot of the same rules of futurology. Yeah. But they're just not bound by the laws of well, not the laws, but the laws of logic. Yeah, exactly. I'm with you. But that's the best science fiction, though, I think, is something that logically makes sense. Yeah. Because then it's just fantasy. Yeah, that's true. So futuriology is recognizing and assessing potential future events. I could have sworn Jonathan Strickland wrote this, by the way. It read. Yeah, but it was not. No, it's very strickland desk. Nicholas Gervis. Yeah. That's Strickland's alter ego. I wonder if it is. I've never met this Nicholas Gerbis, but the point Gurbas makes, which I think is good, is it's a product of our times in many cases, like depending on where we are as a society. And he makes a great point. During the Civil War, there probably weren't a lot of rosy predictions for the future. American Civil War. Sure. But in the Gilded Age, people are a lot more optimistic. So it's a whole different deal. Like, during the Cold War, for instance, a lot of paranoia, a lot of cynicism. Probably not going to be a rosy outlook for the future. Right. Like during the Gilded Age when it was Rosier. Yeah. Way more optimistic than the Cold War, which is kind of ironic, because the Gilded Age didn't have anything to be optimistic about. They were just pretending, hence the name. Yeah. The thing is, what you just said, though, is kind of an argument against futures, allergy because one of the big critiques of it is that a futurologist, they're not doing anything. Even if you're commenting on the past or the future, you're still really commenting about your present, your contemporary time, because that's what you our recent past. Sure. Yeah. That's what you've lived through and experienced. That's all you can really reflect on. And futurally seeks to go beyond that. Well, yeah, that makes sense, though. If you, like, look at this thing that is happening now or just happened, then what is going to be happening in that thing in ten years? Right. And it's a lot of times based on how the direction is currently going. Yes. Okay. So Gervis makes a good example. The cell phone grew out of the telegraph, which ultimately is related further back to the smoke signal. Sure. Right. Yeah. But if you were a future all just hanging out around somebody who is sending smoke signals, would you be able to predict the cell phone? Probably not. Or probably not. Could you predict the impact of the automobile or the highway system? Right. Maybe, but would you predict that people would have sex in the back seat of a car because it maybe provides a little well, I don't think they did urban sprawl. Yeah. Could you predict exurbs and edge cities just because the highways got built? Yeah. And not a lot of people did, even though a lot of people said there's going to be horseless carriages one day and they're going to change things big time, people are going to be able to move around a lot more. But that doesn't mean that everybody saw every result of the automobile. It was a game changer is what you could call. Agreed. So what we're saying here, and if it sounds a little weird that we're at once supporting and criticizing futurology, that's basically the fun thing to do when you talk about futuristy is to criticize it and be awed by it, because a lot of times they really are super, right? That's right. Futuriology has been around for a long time since people were writing fiction, there were people predicting the future. Right. But as far as things didn't really get going as far as being meaningful until after World War II when the US. Started developing technological forecasting, basically, it was really important to try and see where things were going militarily right. Because it was super expensive to develop new technologies. It could take a long time. So they started thinking, hey, we need to get some people on board that can kind of hopefully predict where we're headed here so we can make the right decisions. Yeah. Because if it takes a really long time, like you said, to develop a weapon, by the time you have that weapon deployed in the field, you're going to need to know it's not already obsolete. Right. The only way to do that is to predict what kind of warfare you're going to be engaged in. Because this is a time like at the end of World War II. So many inventions came out of World War One and two war machine inventions that things were changing so quickly that there was actually you can kind of put modern futurology into the lap of one guy. An Air Force general named Haparnold. Who saw that things were changing so fast that his Air Force needed to basically predict the future and see what direction it needed to go. So he looked around and he started tapping people to do that. One of the first people he taps is a scientist, an aeronautical engineer named Theodore von Karmann. Yes. He was a super smart dude, and he led a team that did predict a lot of stuff like drones. And as far as the military using drones, not your uncle who flies it around the neighborhood. Right. Just to film stuff. He predicted the rise of Brookstone, target seeking missiles, supersonic aircraft, and even the atom bomb. All of this was in one report to Haparnold, and this guy knocked it out of the park. But he and his group were very much limited to small academic and military circles like the general public wasn't aware that this is going on. But his group, Von Carmen's group, so accurately foresaw the direction that modern warfare was going that you can also very easily make the case that, no, he basically created a roadmap to the future that the Air Force followed. So his prophecy was self fulfilling because he said go this way and the Air Force went that way and created all this stuff. Yeah. And then the military and while the Brand Corporation, specifically it grew out of the US air Force and Douglas Aircraft in the mid 40s, they said, well, having one person to say these things is great, but what we need is a team and a consensus among this team. Well, not kind of. They very much patented a technique they called the Delphi Technique. Delphi. And that is basically a technique where they're trying to get agreed on consensus from a number of people. So there's this very famous story about how the Navy, I think, lost a submarine, a nuclear submarine, or the Russians had lost a submarine, something like that. There was a lost sub that they wanted to find and they had no idea where it was. So the Navy pulled all these different experts and all these different fields that might have something to do with nuclear submarines, weather, aeronautics, people from Noah, all these people, right? And ask them, where do you think the sub is? And no one hit it on the nose. But when they basically used statistical distribution of these various opinions, guesses, of professionals, it led them right to that sub. And that's what the Delphi Technique does too. It takes opinions of experts in various fields and says, what do you think of this? And everybody sends in a questionnaire anonymously, and there's no group meeting, so the group doesn't bow to pressure, no leaders emerge, they're giving their unvarnished opinion. And then after those opinions come in, they take that information and send it out again. So it goes in rounds and rounds and rounds until they finally come to a group consensus that in the future we're all going to be wearing metallic blue jumpsuits. Yeah. And what they're doing is generating what's known as a scenario. And a guy named Herman Khan, K-A-H-N worked with Rand in he's the one that kind of coined the term scenario as it applies to futurology. A pretty good definition, I found, was scenario is a detailed portrait of a plausible future world, one sufficiently vivid that a planner can clearly see and comprehend the problems, challenges and opportunities that such an environment would present. So it's saying in the future we're going to have a scenario where there are going to be robots in every house. Yeah. And one of the biggest ways that they work on scenarios is with something called back casting, which is starting at the end, which is you got a robot in every house. Right. And then go backwards to how you got there. Yeah, to how you got there. Really? Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. And scenarios. That's a pretty cool scenario. They can also be as mundane as running a fire drill, where you're envisioning the fire broke out in the high school gym. Right. And so everybody needs to get out. That's a scenario. It's as simple as that. The weather forecasts or economic forecasts that are run through computer algorithms. The computer algorithms, the model, the process that it's going through is the scenario, and it spits out a possible prediction. It's almost effective than cause. Right? Yeah. Excellently put. Thank you. So Herman Khan worked with Rand. Did you look him up at all? Oh, yeah. He's one of the inspirations for Doctor Strangelove. Yeah. He was described as a super genius. Yeah. He was super smart, and he kind of was a bit of a celebrity at the time. He wrote a book in 1961 called on thermonuclear War and then went on to form left Randa form the Hudson Institute, where he basically was like, we're a group that is going to forecast the future. So it was like super popular book. And he spawned a lot of other books, similar books. We need to take a break, but we'll get right back to this in a second. So, Chuck, you're just talking about Herman Khan being the super genius who is something of a celebrity. I read that Timothy Leary animated that he had taken acid with him. I believe it. He was part of the inspiration for Doctor Strangelove and this book that he wrote called The Year 2000 a Framework for Speculation on the Next 33 Years. Yes. It basically established this outlook that America and capitalism could do anything thanks to basically technological inventiveness. Yeah. Let's hear some of these. There was a list in that book. 100 technical innovations, very likely in the last third of the 20th century. 100. Some of the first ten multiple applications of lasers. Boom. High strength structural materials. Nailed it, wouldn't you think? All lowers. New or improved materials for equipment and appliances. That's easy. Yeah, anyone can say that. Sure. I'd be better material. Predict that now for 2050 longer range weather forecasting. More reliable weather forecasting. No, I don't know about that one. I think that was a mess. How about this? Here are a few of the other ones. New techniques for cheap and reliable birth control. For sure. Yeah. The pill. I don't know if the pill was around. We should do a whole thing. It may have been the same year because it came out in 67. Was it? Yeah. Well, this book came out in 67. Right. Widespread use of nuclear reactors for power duh. Improved capability to change sex of the children or adult gender reassignment. We did a great episode on that. Pervasive business use of computers. Yeah. They're all over personal pagers. Yeah, they came and went. And then one of the other ones was home computers to run households and communicate with the outside world. Yes. The Internet of things. Yes. They also predicted the rise of the credit economy. Oh, really? Yeah. That we currently are in. Interesting. Yeah. And that was just like a list, like a sidebar, basically. Yeah. In the book. In this book. But the whole idea that America and capitalism in the west could, invent its way, out of any particular problem we possibly ran across in the future was the premise or the position of this book. And it caused an enormous fur in academic circles. And not just academic circles, because this book was one of the first to introduce the public that there were such things as think tanks like Rand and that Club of Rome. Yeah. And that these people were sitting there thinking about the future, and we're writing books about it, and it kind of became a hip thing. But the Club of Rome was basically diametrically opposed to the outlook that Herman Khan had. And the Club of Rome was a business consortium that conspiracy theorists say is basically the seat of the New World Order. They're still around. They are. And the Club of Rome basically said, no, we are establishing the gloom and doom camp that there is such thing as resource depletion overpopulation, and we are basically doomed. Yeah. I mean, we've covered this a lot on the show. Different people that have made wild predictions about, we're going to run out of this by this year. Thomas Malthus. Yeah, very malthusian. One of the books that came out of the Club of Rome in 1972 was called Limits to Growth by Danila H. Meadows, Dennis Meadows, Joergen Renders, and William Barrons at MIT. And they had a very dire, apocalyptic outlook of the future, as did a lot of other people at the time. A lot of these were way off base. A lot of these dire predictions. Right. Over and over again. Yeah. And so on the Club of Romeo's website, they defend the limits to growth. No, not the Limits to growth. Yeah. The Limits to Growth book basically saying that it's often misguided as predicting the collapse of civilization due to renewable resource overuse. Right. And it doesn't do that. But they did use the same kind of techniques that Herman Khan and some of his other colleagues were coming up with by taking population information, food production data, industrial production, pollution, and non renewable resource consumption, and then running scenarios through this model that they built using computers. And coming up with the scenarios they came up with were kind of grim. The thing is, even though they missed the mark, they still helped establish a very young idea that you can't just throw your McDonald's Styrofoam on the ground, right. You can't drive a car that gets 2 miles per gallon. We can't live like everything is just forever abundant, that there's no such thing as scarcity. Yes. It's a double edged sword, though. Like I totally agree. But then also, when you're wrong about these things, it gives Cynics something to point to. We didn't run out of oil in the early 1980s like you said we would, and we don't want to do anything about it. Yeah. I mean, man, that is a great point. It's a very great point. But at the same time, what you're seeing here between the limits to growth and the year 2000, we still see this today with climate change. It's like, let's do something about climate change. The other people say, no, we can invent our way out of it. And besides, if we do something about climate change, it's going to mess with the economy. Right. And these people are saying, forget about the economy, we are all going to die. Yeah. Or not necessarily forget about the economy, but maybe you can do both. Right. You know, my whole deal with that has always been just like, why take that risk? Well, we humans aren't very good at preparing for future risk, which is, I think, one of the reasons why future all of us are so revered and odd, but also mocked and scorned because they're doing something that's almost flies in the face of human nature. Yeah. You're really putting yourself out there when you predict something. There was one other episode that just reminded me of the 10,000 Year Clock. Oh, yeah, that was a great one. Yeah. So the United States military obviously has used it for years then beginning when was this? In the 60s or seventy s. That business got into it. So in 1972, I think Royal Shell heard somebody at the top heard that there wasn't going to be any oil by 1985, and they went, yeah. Businesses basically said, wait a minute, there are people that can actually use models to determine what the future might look like. Right. How can we use that to make money? Well, it's throw money at them and find out. Exactly. A couple of other places, too, that were nascent think tanks. Like grand was the Stanford Research Institute Futures Group in the California Institute of Technology. Early kind of think tank breeding grounds. Just smart people walking around thinking about the future. But that wasn't enough. You can't just say, this is what I think it's going to be like. You have to back it up. And we'll talk about how they back it up right after this. How do they back it up? Well, they use different techniques. If you're a futurist or a futurologist, you're going to be using techniques that are pretty recognizable. But the way you put them together and the things you sort out is what's going to make you successful or not successful. Right. So you might brainstorm ideas. Yeah. That's probably where you start. It's just like blue sky territory, as they say. Yeah. You imagine things using scenarios or games, apparently game theory, but we got to do that at some point. Yeah, I've been avoiding it because it's a mind bender. We could mess it up really bad, but we'll do it. That changed the futurism field tremendously when they came up with game theory, because it's a pretty good way of predicting how people will work. And that's one of the big confounding factors, is you can predict something, follow every single one of these steps that we're talking about right now, and then people will just cut to the left all of a sudden. And your prediction just fell to the wayside because humanity went this way real quick. Yeah. Or somebody invented a game changer, a game changing product or innovation that nobody saw coming. Yeah. What's it called? Disruptive Technology. Yeah, that's a good I like that. Not a bad band name. Oh, I wonder if it's out there. If so, it's made of, like, Silicon Valley. Rich guy. Yeah. This is like, my sideband. Right. Do you want to gather professional opinions using, say, the Delphi technique? You want to do historical analysis? Sure. Current trends are very huge and can help you as well. And then, like you were saying, I think you call it back masking. No, that's turned me on. Dead man from the Beatles. Yes, that's what they do. They listen to the Beatles backwards. What was it? It's not back masking. I know, but where you envision the future and then you work your way backward from it. When you do this, you do all this stuff together. And again, back casting. Back casting. And when you're using this, along with computer algorithms that can model, like, the economy or the weather or oil consumption or something like that, you can come up with something that you could rightly say is a prediction or a forecast for the future where we're going to be. That's right. Again, though, just things happen. Like, for example, Herman Khan did not predict the oil crisis. That came the year after he wrote another famous book, in he wrote a response, I think, to Limits to Growth and just totally missed the oil crisis. But how could he predict that? Because the oil crisis came out of the OPEC oil embargo that was punishment for the US is being involved in the Yam Kippur war. So you couldn't see that coming. No. And that's the big problem with futura. Yes, exactly. Our own US government has been wrong. The US Department of Interior announced twice in 1939 and then in 1951 that we only had 13 years of oil left. Yeah. So weird that both times it was 13 years. They don't like to bother people, so they wait until there's 13 years left and they found it's such a specific number. It is. What else? Well, we've talked about Moore's Law before. That has aged a little better than some other futurology predictions because it has been revised over the years, which is sort of a cheat a little bit, but still. What I really meant was I think he went from 18 months to two years or something like that. But what's funny is Gerbis stakes his position in this article. He's saying, like, the Limits to Growth and the other Club of Rome stuff, they missed the mark because they predicted catastrophe. And Moore's Law predicts technological innovation, so it's successful. So clearly Gervis agrees with the Herman Khan group rather than the Club of Rome group. I don't think it's settled. I think you can't just say, like, the gloom and doom camp has just been completely eradicated or proven wrong. Agreed. Yeah. Moore's Law, I don't even think we said specifically it predicts the number of transistors on integrated circuits and computers. Doubles every two years. Right. And like we said, it's been updated, and it's been pretty consistent. And so with Herman Khan's popularity and then the big high profile book publishing argument that he got in with the Club of Rome, that led to, like, a spate of other futural books there. Yes. I remember it being a big deal when I was a kid. I remember a lot of people talking about the near and far future, the one that I ran across in this article that I had heard of, but I didn't know anything about Alvin Toffler's Future Shock. I remember that. I think. Did you read it? No. The cover, I guarantee, would just give you nostalgia, but it came out in 1970, and it predicts a future where too much rapid change, technological change and advancement, it happens too quickly, and people get all sorts of stressed and just worn out and basically have all manner of terrible reactions to it. And I'm like, well, like I predicted in 2015, so, like, a person's emotions couldn't handle. Yeah, we're just overwhelmed. Okay. Through too much rapid technological innovation. Happens too quick. Do you think we're overwhelmed? Like, I get stressed out by, like, say, social media or something like that. Yeah. I wonder if it's people of a certain age, maybe. Yeah, I would guess if you're born into it, you're used to it, so it would probably more likely apply to a transition population. Right. The transitional generation. Is that what we are? Don't you get stressed by social media? Don't you get tense? Yeah, I mean, I kind of just hate it or having information, all this information and all of it's just so thin. Content wise or value wise. But there's tons of it, and it's always coming at you. Stuff wears me out. It wears me out, too. I got the future shock chuck you got the jimmy legs. Yeah. No, I totally agree. I'm like that. I just want to shut it all down. Just everybody. Not podcasts, though. I just live on. So we talked about science fiction writers and how they are easily off the hook because they're just writers, right. They're not supposed to predict the future, but they have been you can't dismiss it because they've been on the money or close to it a lot over the years, because like we said, they're not hampered by the rational laws of today. They can just say whatever they want, and if they're wrong, it's like, hey dude, I'm just writing stuff. Yes, this is fiction. Right. But a few of the highlights jules Verne, mid 19th century, predicted going to the moon in a spacecraft. Not only that, so he predicted it would be shot out of a cannon. Basically, the thing that he really got though, was that he placed the moonshot in Florida, like 137 miles from Cape Canaveral, where they do launch rockets to the moon. Not bad. And for the same reason too. It's close to the equator. Oh, is that why? That's one of the reasons why. Plus, Cape Canaveral is largely protected by the Gulf stream from hurricanes. Like as a hurricane comes ashore right before it starts to get to Canaveral, it goes out again. Right. And then hits North Carolina. Interesting. That'd be an interesting conversation to have been in on when they were picking places. Yeah. Where should we launch this? I mean, where should we put all of our money? In HG. Wells? He predicted tanks. He was supposedly he was the first guy to really think of himself as a futurist. He predicted the atom bomb in 19 eight. The name Robert was actually coined by a science fiction writer, a check writer named Carl Kappeck. In 1921, he named robots. I think the all time winner, though is Hugo Gernsbach. And Hugo Gernsback, if you're into science fiction, you'll recognize his first name because who's the Hugo Award named after? You may also recognize his last name too, if you're a Hugo Gurnspock fan. But back in, I think the 1910s yeah. He wrote a book called Ralph 1245. He predicted everything in this. Yeah. You know what that means? It's actually a play on words. It means one, two, four, C for one another. You get it? Wow. Yeah, that's great. One, two, four, C for one and then another is the plus sign. That alone. I was sold. Yeah. I love this guy. It's just like that Van Halen album, eight one, two. Exactly. So what does he predicted? He predicted solar power, like the realistic use of solar power. He predicted plastics, video phones, tape recorders, jukeboxes, loudspeakers, tinfoil, rustproof, steel, synthetic fabrics, all in one book. And he's famous in the Hugo Awards, named after him because he wanted to make science fiction more science based using that same logic. So he would have been a very almost a father of futural. Oh, yeah, for sure. Here's a few other things from that book. This one to me. I'm surprised no one has done this yet. The appetizer, which is at a restaurant, in an advanced, scientifically advanced restaurant, Will be the a room that you wait in before you get your table that's flooded with gases that make you hungry. Oh, yeah, not bad. Yeah. Just have a seat in the appetizer room. Right. We'll be ready shortly. Just like bloody fingernails scratch into the walls and people are trying to get to the other room where the food is the telotograph, which is basically a fax machine. Okay. The Telephot, which was a picturephone, it had a universal translator where they translate any language. Right there in your hand. Yeah, not bad. And then this one I love. The vacation city was a suspended city in a domed suspended city, 20,000ft in the air that used a device that nullified gravity. And in vacation city, no mechanical devices are permitted because it was supposed to be a true escape. That's all from the mechanized world waiting for that one. And this was in 1911. He predicted just that there would be a need for that. That's like that town in West Virginia, green something, west Virginia where people who have electromagnetic sensitivity go because you're not allowed to have any electromagnetic stuff. Oh, really? Because there's like a radio telescope or there's something there that could be interfered with. You could be Amish. Can you just be amish? No, like, hey, I want to be amish. If you're Harrison Ford, you could be. Or Woody Harrison. Right. You got anything else? How about these predictions for the future? There's a couple in here that are kind of funny. Ten predictions that missed the mark, and these are real predictions. In 1967, US. News and Worlds Report said that by the end of the century, we will launch our freight across the continent with missiles. If you order something from Amazon in New York instead of having a fulfillment center nearby right. They just put it in a missile and shoot it to you. Yeah. It didn't happen. No, but drones are coming. Are they really? Are they still on that? Probably. 1955, a guy named Alex LeWitt predicted nuclear power vacuum cleaners. This one, I think would be pretty great. Dissolving dishes and asked what it would be like in the year 2000. A science writer named Waldemir Kombuch 12345. He's a fabulous science writer with the funny name consonants in a row. He said you would basically put your plate in 250 deg water at the end and it would just dissolve it. No more dishwashing. Bucky Fuller predicted that Canada would be a subtropical climate because we built a dome over it. That didn't happen. No, it didn't. Which is strange, because Bucky Fuller was a pretty sharp dude. Here's another one. Was he really? Yeah. Buckminster Fuller. Oh, I didn't pick up on that. He's who Bucky balls are named after. Really? Why? He may have invented them. I'm not sure. What the Bucky ball? It's those little balls that are magnetic spheres that like you shape into bucky balls. Yeah. Here's one a scottish geneticist that said in the 1920s that in the future, one third of the babies would not be born. Only one third would be born as a result of pregnancy, and the other babies would be born in a lab. Would they be grown? Basically exogenesis, yeah. Here's the last one. Chuck, are you ready? The Research Institute of America, which sounds pretty smart, said that by 1975 I'm sorry, this is several years before that we would all be driving personal helicopters. Did not pan out. Probably never will. I don't know if I'd want a personal helicopter. For Emily's birthday, I rented a cabin in the North Georgia mountains. Did you take a personal helicopter there? No, but I was sitting on the deck. We all were. And way across the valley on the side of a mountain was this huge house, and I heard the sound of a helicopter. I was like and I saw blinking light. I got up binoculars, and this dude had a helicopter. Wow. And he took it and he flew it down about 2 miles to the lake at the bottom of the valley. And I guess he has a lake house and a mountain house, and the easiest way to get there is to make the four minute helicopter flight. That's crazy. Yeah, it was pretty amazing. Wow. I want to know who that guy is. Not guy. It could be a lady. Yes. What am I saying? It could be Carly Fiorina. Yeah. Who's that? She's the woman who's running for GOP president candidate. Oh, right. Fiorina. That's right. Got you. Go ahead. Oh, sorry. Let's see. Well, if you want to know more about futurology, you can type that word into the search bar athouseofworks.com and since Chuck had an anecdote about helicopters, it's time for listener mail. It sort of looked like one of those Magnum Pi. Ones, too. Well, if I did have a personal helicopter, it would look an awful lot like that. I'm sure it would. Hi, guys. My name is Shelby. I'm honored for you to be reading this. My husband and I love your show. You've solved our dilemma as to what to listen to in our car together. I want to let you know you did a great job on the HIV AIDS podcast. However, I think you missed telling a really important story about the AIDS crisis. Just before the AIDS crisis broke, a method for treating hemophilia called clotting factor concentrate was developed. Finally let those suffering from the disease live into adulthood and completely change the landscape of the disorder. By the time HIV was discovered to be a blood borne virus, many of those suffering from hemophilia already had it, not to mention that many also contracted hepatitis. However, the pharmaceutical companies did not begin to pasteurize the drug, in spite of their knowledge that it was spreading HIV until a strong public outcry prompted a government intervention. I think the story is not told often enough in the injustice that these individuals suffered at the hands of Big Pharma is undoubtedly one of the greatest our country has seen. Man there's an extremely informative and sad documentary on the topic called Bad Blood Colon a Cautionary Tale. Anyway, that's about it, and I'm sorry if I bummed everyone out. Who is it from? Shelby. Shelby, thank you for not only that illuminating email, but also the documentary recommendation. We're always looking for those. Absolutely. If you want to get in touch with us, you can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on Facebook.com stuffychnow. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@howstepworks.com. And as always, turn us at our home on the Web stuffyshow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetofworks.com. Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means schools out, the sun's shining, the daylights longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgarith and Georgia Hardstark, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the Freedom Amazon Music app and listen today." | ||
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podcasts.howstuffworks.com/hsw/podcasts/sysk/2017-08-29-sysk-bbq-final.mp3 | A Lip-Smacking Look at Barbecue | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/a-lip-smacking-look-at-barbecue | Barbecue, or for the lazy, BBQ, is a Southern cooking tradition, but also much more than that. It's a cultural touchstone of the South where people of all classes and races can sit and break bread with one another. In today's episode, you'll learn all abo | Barbecue, or for the lazy, BBQ, is a Southern cooking tradition, but also much more than that. It's a cultural touchstone of the South where people of all classes and races can sit and break bread with one another. In today's episode, you'll learn all abo | Tue, 29 Aug 2017 17:24:47 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2017, tm_mon=8, tm_mday=29, tm_hour=17, tm_min=24, tm_sec=47, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=241, tm_isdst=0) | 48875963 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetuffworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant with Jerry and we're eating barbecue style. It's not true. I'm just going to fess up. We don't have any barbecue in front of us. You're right. Vegetarians and vegans may not be interested in this one. It's still interesting. I would never encourage someone to tune out, but I have. I do all the time. Do you? Sure. Some jerk writes in like, sounds like you're still going on Candy all the time. Go listen to something else, pal. Okay, I see what you mean. I mean, before we record a podcast on the podcast, as we record a podcast at the beginning of the podcast got you. I don't say like, hey, you might not want to listen to this, but yeah, you might not want to listen to this, but I imagine if a vegan saw how barbecue work, they probably be like, yeah, I'll just wait. Yeah, they're probably not going to fall for it. Wait for the tofu episode, which we owe them now after doing this one. I had fried tofu. In Chicago? No, in Toronto, in a recent show there. It was one of those sushi places where they bring you out a little piece of fried tofu. Yeah, I can't believe I'm blanking, but yes, I know what you mean. Is that, like, there's a name for it? Like the custom of it or no, the dish. The piece of fried tofu with a little, maybe ponzi sauce on it and some scallions. Delicious. This one is okay. But it was one of the worst sushi meals I've ever had in my life. Really? Wow. I just chose wrong. Like bad sushi or bad restaurant? Bad everything. I walked in, and it's hard to tell because agadashi tofu. No, I won't name it. I don't even remember the name. No, that's the name of the dish. Got you. Sorry. Like, in La, some of the best sushi are these strip mall holes in the wall. Sometimes it's not the case, though. Sometimes it is, though. Like, literally some of the best sushi that you don't have to go to some fancy place and spend $400. Right. Are these small family run by Japanese people? Sure. This one in Toronto. I looked up afterwards and they were like, oh, it's one of those. Apparently Toronto has a lot of Chinese run sushi places which get knocked on Yelp and by reviewers. Yeah. You could also make the case that places that serve sushi and Thai food would be knocked on as well. Yeah, I don't usually order sushi at a Thai restaurant. If I go to a Thai place, I want a good Thai dish. Sure. You want, like, a curry? Put some peanuts in there or something. Those some peanuts on there. Yes. But anyway, I chose wrong, and this was a hole in the wall place. So when I walked in, my instinct was like, oh, no. Then I thought, no, Los Angeles, Hollywood, really good stuff at the holes in the wall. Right. Not the case. No. Bad fish, bad taste. It schemed me. And if you're skiing eating sushi yeah, that's not a good deal. Put down the chopsticks and just ask for the check. Yeah. Maybe spit up into your napkin, walk away. Anyway, I don't know why I went off on that. What were we talking about? Barbecue. Yeah, we're talking barbecue. Barbecue. This one made me hungry, dude. Same here. One of the things that really opened my eyes about, though, was the idea that people think of barbecue about as American as it gets, even though Australians have their own word for it, the bobby. Isn't that pretty good? Sure. And it turns out there's barbecue, like, all around the world. Yes, but when you think of barbecue, especially like, barbecued pork with barbecue sauce right on. Like two slices of plain old Dixie girl white bread, that's about as American as it gets. Not just American. Like Southern American barbecue. Yeah. There's actually a strip of land known as the barbecue belt in the United States. That's correct. Basically goes from Virginia down into the Southeast and then over across Kansas and then into Texas. That's the barbecue belt in the US. Correct. But barbecue is now every city in the country tries to do their own hand at barbecue. Sure. If you go to New York City, you can go eat at a barbecue joint. Right. And they're trying to do it. They're trying to legit. Yeah. Which is fine, but they're trying to not co op, because that sounds like it's shady or something. Right. But you go to New York now, and you can go and get fried chicken and biscuits and barbecue and all these people that are like, come to New York City and eat this good old Southern home cooking. Have you eaten a fatty queue in New York? No. That's very good. Barbecue for New York Joint. Yeah, I don't do that, because when I'm in New York, why would I get what is literally surrounding me here? I want to go to New York, I want to go to Momofuku or something. I don't have that here. Yeah. Steam bun. While you can get steam buns here. Yeah, but I mean, you could make the case that you should be going to Korea for steam buns. That's the point. But it is true. And there's nothing wrong with if somebody opening a good barbecue joint outside of the barbecue belt, it's too for. It in the barbecue belt. They don't even think about it. It's just part of the fabric of life. But I guarantee you, if you go to San Francisco to a barbecue joint, they're going to be the same. It's going to be different. It'll be like a Chinese sushi place. There you go. That's the point of my story. So the point, ultimately is that when you think of America having a barbecue belt, you think of barbecue as profoundly American. Sure. But it turns out that since you were talking about cultural appropriation, that the European settlers who came to the New World actually appropriate. They got the idea for barbecue from the indigenous groups they encountered there. Specifically, to start, from what I understand, the whole thing started on Hispaniola, where Columbus first landed with the Tano Indians. Yeah. I mean, cooking. I guess if you want to talk barbecue, there's a couple of ways to approach it. There is the noun barbecue, which here in the south, in America, we think of as, like you said, pulled pork, maybe brisket, smoked wings, and then side dishes like coleslaw, baked beans, mac and cheese, brunswick stew. Yeah. Man, so good. Maybe if you're getting a little wild, maybe like collard greens or fried okra monkey eyes. That sort of starts to there's a bit of an overlap between Southern meat and three cooking and barbecue, especially when it comes to the sides. For sure. And I think all that actually grow to church picnics originally. Yeah, I did some good eating growing up at my church. Sure. And meeting three. For those of you that don't understand, in other countries, that means a little small, family run restaurant, usually in the south that you get to meet and then three sides generally served in a cafeteria tray. And we're talking stuff like fried pork chops or fried chicken or chicken fried chicken, chicken fried chicken, chicken fried steak, chicken fried steak, steak fried, chicken fried, steak fried, chicken fried monkey eyes. And then all these various sides will be the three. But there's a little bit of over that lap with barbecue. But barbecue, the distinction is you're talking about meats that are cooked over a low heat, generally over a long period of time. Yeah, usually hours and hours and hours. Right. We'll get all the subtleties of this. Okay. But that's what barbecue really is. Right. And normally, if you're a purist, it's specifically pig. Anything else outside of pig is not barbecue, whether it's chicken, whether it's sausage, whether it's shrimp, whether it's brisket. If it's not pig, it's not barbecue. Say, a substantial portion of barbecue enthusiasts. Yes. You can just take that and run away with it. Take that pig and shove it. Well, the reason it's actually that whole thing kind of the crux of that is found in a Squire article called My Pig Beats Your Cow, which basically argues that if it's not pig, it's not barbecue. And the reason that that would be the case is because barbecue, it came out of the American South as far back as the beginning of the 18th century. And the stuff that they were originally cooking was pig. And the reason why they were cooking pig was because that's what they had available to them. And there was a specific reason for cooking pig, like you said, low and slow, very long time over a lowish heat, because the pigs that they were originally cooking had been turned out to feed fend for themselves out in the woods. Because if you are running low on food because you're a colonist to a new place where you have no idea what you're doing, one thing you can do with pigs is to just go out in the woods and eat some truffles and then we'll come kill you later and eat you. Well, as they're doing that, they're becoming kind of like wood ready and they're leaner. Their meat is tougher, there's less fat. So to cook that kind of food and make it tender, you have to cook it over low heat for a very long time. And that's where Barbecuing pig in the south originally came from. That's the origin of barbecue. Yeah. And what's so cool to me is from the oranges, from the origins, whether or not it's I think in 2007, Israeli archaeologists found a 200,000 year old evidence of essentially barbecuing wild cattle and gazelle. Whether it's that or hispaniola, like you were talking about, or in the 1500s in Spain or the earliest Native Americans, what's so cool to me is that they learned they first learned cooked meat to good and then they learned oh, but very slow cooked meat over low heat. Better. Yeah. Like early on, they found evidence in these recipes that they cooked slow and low. They actually learned the subtle difference between this is charged me, it'll sustain me, it'll last a little bit longer and preserve it. And they learn the subtleties that no, it's tender and juicy and delicious, but do it this way. Yeah, it's just amazing to me. Yeah. And again, we've done it for hundreds of thousands of years at least. There's actually a theory that says that the intelligence explosion in humans came about from cooking our food, especially meat, because it requires less energy to digest, which meant we could take a lot of that digestive energy and direct it upward to our brain. And so our brains got bigger, and hence we got smarter thanks to cooking our food. Yeah. And there's something too, and they talk about this in the beginning of our article here. It being the antithesis of fast food. There's something about getting up at 300 in the morning to put your meat on your smoker so you can have it ready by midday and tending to it every hour and checking that thermometer and drinking beer the whole time. Yeah. Starting at 03:00 am. Or continuing from 02:00 am. Yeah. That makes sometimes for a messy barbecue. But there's just something to that. I think that's one of the big draws for people is it's not something you slap on the grill and serve 15 minutes later. Right. It's nuanced. And that's how you build that flavor. And it's an investment in time. And you can have conversations around that fire. And this one writer put it really neatly. Robert Moss to trace the history of barbecue is to trace the very threat of American history. And there's been books written about it, not just recipes, but about it as a cultural staple in this country. That's true. Really, really neat. Well, I'm hungry. You want to take a break? So hungry. All right. So we're back. Man, that was delicious. That's the sound of me licking sauce off my fingers. Yeah, we took one of Jerry's legs and barbecued it. Jerry's too lean. She would make it barbecue. Well, no, that's why you want to barbecue slow and low. That's true. So, like you said, there's evidence of us barbecuing as far back as 200,000 years. The ancient Greeks really advanced barbecuing, which sure is really just a subtype of roasting meat. And it's not like, if you're like, well, wait a minute. People have been creating this forever. How can you say barbecuing is American? It's kind of like ketchup. Like, remember ketchup, where you think of ketchup as American, but it actually has its origins and a Chinese fish sauce. Right. This is very similar. But, like, Barbecuing wouldn't have come about had humans not been doing this for 200,000 years already. This is just kind of a nuanced version of it. Right. Yeah. So around the world, people roast meat in various ways. Like, for example, in medieval England, they found evidence they actually have a textidermyed sample of this breed of dog called the turn spit. And no, it was really cute. So this small dogs, they look kind of dock sundy were bred to run on treadmills or little hamster wheels that was connected by a chain to the spit. So it turned this huge piece of meat in the fire? No, they were small dogs, but they were stout. I'm saying they were oh, they were turning the huge dog. Yeah. They're like, Better him than me. And that was in medieval England. Well, you could make a really good case that turning a hunk of meat on a spit very slowly off an indirect flame, that's barbecuing. Sure, but it's not barbecuing because it didn't come out of the American South cooking pork specifically. But a lot of people from the south and west of England ended up in the American South, and that's kind of one of the ways that it started to grow there. Yeah. So let's just quit. Billy Dallying okay. DeSoto well, first Columbus shows up, encounters the Tano Indians on Hispaniola, who would have been related to the Hastens and the Dominicans today. Yes. And I believe people in Puerto Rico, too. So the Tano Indians had this method of cooking meat where they used green wood, like fresh saplings so that it wouldn't catch fire, and therefore it wouldn't char the meat either. Smoke and they cooked meat, like probably goats or something like that over this low heat for a very long time. So I think Columbus encountered it, but definitely Hernando DeSoto did as well when he arrived in North America. Correct. And supposedly the first European attended barbecue took place outside of what's today Tupolo, Mississippi, in 1540 with Desodo, who is the guy who brought pigs to the New World, it could have been my family. So it was a roasted pig chuck's family, hernando DeSoto and the Chickasaw tribe who lived around there. Yeah. Pretty cool. That was the first barbecue in North America featuring pig. Yeah. And as you'll see as we go, barbecue is a very social experience that has weaved its way through churches and gatherings and civic groups and American politics, and we'll get into all that, but it's not surprising that there's evidence of a group of people getting together, like any shared meal, but with barbecue, it's just going to be longer. Well, yeah. And supposedly that arose out of the slaughtering of a pig was a big deal. Yeah, sure. You had a lot of meat on your hands. They used everything from the snout to the tail of the pig. So you had a lot of stuff, and it was way more than your family was going to eat. So it was an occasion for the whole community, or at least all the neighbors, to be invited over to share in this wonderful food. And that's where barbecues, being a social gathering, came out of that during the colonial era, eating a pig was a very communal affair. Well, and we've talked before about just kind of remembered about fire, about the theories that language evolved because of fire. Because for the first time, people gathered round after the sun went down to talk about their day. So this is kind of along those same lines, right? Like where you have a fire going, you're going to have people hanging out, throw some meat on a spit several feet up, you got some tasty food. Yeah. Get yourself a turn spit dog. Yeah. Because he wants to crank that thing. A turn spit dog. That's what they were bred to do. So Native Americans here, they kind of improve things over time. They eventually would make these wooden frames that they would put the meat on. And then in 1897, a man named Ellsworth Zoyer patented the charcoal briquette, which started being mass produced about 23 years later. Do you know by whom? Well, I would imagine what's the big one now? Kingsford. Yeah. Kingsford was Henry Johnny matchlife. Kingsford was Henry Ford's cousin in law. Okay. And Henry Ford was looking for a way to use all of the stumps and sawdust that was left over from the boards that were produced for the running boards and the dashboards for his Model T because he had all this waste and he wanted to put it to good use. So he started mass producing charcoal briquettes. Yeah. We're talking about wood briquettes. Yeah. Briquette is basically coal tar sawdust sometimes corn starch. That's a wood briquette. Yeah. Or now the wood briquettes, a lot of times it's just real wood, like chunks of wood. Got you. Like, if you're a real barbecue enthusiast, you're not going to be buying these cement briquettes. Sure, you buy some of those, get some open pit barbecue sauce, and you're done. Let's go back to bed. 1950 is a man named George Stephen. He's a metal worker. He got half attached, some legs to a half of a spherical nautical buoy. It was the other half of the lid. Said. I'm going to call this the Weber kettle grill. I don't know where he got the name. I don't either. Did you notice there's a Weber Grill restaurant in Chicago? Really? We thought walking around here, they have a giant Weber Grill outside. It's amazing. I have a giant Weber Grill on my deck. So I thought it was weird to point this out because he was far from the first person to invent the portable backyard grill. Oh, really? Yeah. They've been around for a long time. Well, maybe it was just the kettle grill. He definitely invented the kettle grill, but it's just weird that they chose him to point out because the backyard portable grill had been around a while. Well, maybe this article is underwritten by Webber. Maybe. Who knows? I just outed it and I just buzz marketed them as owning one Weber. I own two. Wow. I know. All right, so the smoke is really slow and low is what we're talking about temperature wise, and we'll get into the specifics of that in a minute. But what you're really doing is you're getting the smoke from whatever type of wood or wood briquettes that you were using in the fire. We're going to talk about those flavors now. But my advice, if you're new to this, you've never done it. Go out and get some different samples of these various woods, and you don't even need to cook with them at first. Just light them and smell the smoke and see what you like and then whatever you're drawn to use. That good advice. But starting out, if you want to talk barbecue hickory in the south was widely used, and most of these regionally were used because that obviously was the wood they had near there. Right. So hickory was abundant in the south. A little sweet, very rich, good for everything, especially monkey eyes. Texas, this is where you get the more mesquite flavor. And apparently the mesquite wood was sort of a nuisance. But in Texas, they got on the beef train, obviously, and said this stuff. Mesquite wood is really good for beef. Yeah. What else? Apparently fruit wood is good for things like chicken and seafood. I think a bacon one. I think an apple would yeah, apple would smoke bacon. Yeah, that's the thing. But yeah, I think that's good advice. Whatever you like is what you should use. Yeah. And if you don't have time to invest in a wood burning brquette, like if you have a propane stove, I know it's not going to be as authentic. You can always just chip out and get one of those pans that you can keep the wood on and soak it and that will give you some extra flavor. Sure. But it's not going to be anything like 12 hours over a fire, like a wood fire. Right. And if you're starting to get the impression that there's a certain level of purity oh, yes. The idea of barbecuing. Yes, you are absolutely correct. And I'm not a purist. I'm an amateur. I don't have a smoker at this point. At this point. Maybe Weber will send you one at some point. I should probably get one for free. So one of the other things that really distinguishes different types of barbecue, especially regionally, is or even down to, like, the individual chef, or pit master, as we'll see they're called. Although I guess I just spoiled. That is how you get the meat ready to cook. Right. So there's really a lot of differences in that. You're getting the meat ready to cook, and then what you do to the meat afterwards, too, is huge as well. But to get it ready, there's one of two things you're going to do to the meat. You're going to either hit it with a dry rub, or you're going to hit it with a wet rub. You're going to do something ahead of time, and you're going to talk to it nicely sure. While you spank it. And with the dry rub in particular, supposedly there's four s's. Are you ready for this? Yeah. Okay. Sweetness, sugar or honey, typically savory, like, say, garlic, spices, and herbs, and spicy sensations like pepper or something, or ginger. That's way more s than for, especially if you count all the pluralization s's. Yeah. Have you ever made a rub? No, not really. You into this at all? Do you do barbecue? No, I don't barbecue, but I'm into eating barbecue. You get into this stuff now with cooking. I could see you smoking a brisket one day and being like, wow, yeah, that was rewarding. Yeah. Give it a shot. Okay. You also strike me as the type that would be like, I don't have time to send to a grill for 12 hours. Well, I mean, yeah, maybe just pick the right day. Yeah. I could study for the podcast while I'm tending to the fire. So I have made dry rubs, and I don't know what I'm doing. I just will look at recipes and just kind of do my own thing with it. But it really makes all the difference if you rub this meat down really good right. Get it in all the crevices and nooks and crannies and let it just sit with itself for a while. Sure. I don't add any wetness to it, but you can add vinegar. You can add oil if you've never done it. Like I said, get online. There's a million different ways you can tackle this beast. Yeah. If you be careful, because that's what they call a rabbit hole, you're going to fall down it when you start just looking into rubs, I'm sure that will lead you to this and that. Actually, I'm kind of into the Memphis style and that kind of thing. Yeah. So after you also want to make 100% sure that you're aware of this. To start, that barbecue sauce is the stuff you put on right before serving or while you're eating, depending or not at all if you're not into it. Sure. Some people just eat like dry or wet rubbed, like barbecue. I love it with sauce. It just seems wrong to eat it without sauce. But yeah, some people are into it like that. But that's not what a rub is. Dry or wet, that's the sauce. That's different. We'll talk about that in a little bit. And you kind of gave a little distinction between you gave a definition of barbecuing, right? Yeah. And I said that roasting meat is basically barbecuing, any type of roasting meat. But there's slight definitions. One of the things that comes up is the difference between barbecuing and grilling. And this one's actually kind of easy. The distinction is it's based on time and temperature. Yeah. So with the barbecue, you do that slow and low thing where you're roasting for several hours over a relatively low heat. This article says 225 to 250. I wonder if that's canon. Well, it depends. Definitely in the low 200 is a good idea, I think. Right. 250 seems a little high, but I'm no expert, but grilling is hotter and faster. Yeah. And with grilling, I mean, there are a couple of ways you can grill, too. You can direct grill, which is just really high heat if you want to sear a steak or something, but that's not barbecue. And then indirect grilling when it's on the grill, around 350. But you've just got the coals kind of on one side and then your meat on the other. Right. And that's kind of the middle ground. But the verb barbecue, it's very highly regionalized as to what terminology you're going to use. And I don't say I'm going to barbecue today. Like I say, I'm going to grill out. Do you want to come over? I'm grilling out. I don't say we're barbecuing. Some people might say smoke instead of barbecue. Yeah, we're going to smoke out. We're going to smoke some meat or something like that. Right? Yeah. But I think a barbecue as the noun, like we'll go get some barbecue or cook some barbecue by grilling out. Yes, it's always out because you don't grill inside. No, that's a bad idea. And then afterwards so we've done preparation the cooking and now the thing is ready, but it's not ready quite yet because you got the sauce. If you're into sauces, and depending on where you are in the country, you're going to use different types of sauce. And what I found interesting was that with American barbecue, the Europeans who came and appropriated the barbecuing process brought their own tastes to the fold. And depending on where they settled, that area developed a specific type of barbecue sauce. Starting with the Carolinas. Yeah. This kind of reminds me of the accents thing, the trail that as the accents developed, as where people settled, like food was kind of secondary to that or hand in hand with that. Yeah. North Carolina and Virginia, these were British colonists, mainly, and they liked Tarchi things. So you're going to find more vinegar based sauces there. Right. Until you get to South Carolina, where you have the French and the Germans who liked mustard. So they have the mustard based sauce. I don't think I've ever had that. Yeah, I'm not a fan. I mean, I don't not like it, but it's never going to be my first choice. Do you remember when we hosted that Locust thing on Science Channel and we went to that barbecue place? Yes. It's like a legendary barbecue place in South Carolina. No, Greensboro, North Carolina. Yeah. That was really neat. Yeah. So they had like, the good vinegar sauce. Yeah. Just seeing the inner imaginations of how big barbecue place works. Right. Yeah. They took us back to where the fire was. It was pretty good and hot. If you go a little further west, about as far west as you can to the other end of the barbecue belt, you're in Texas. West Texas, to be specific. Apparently in East Texas they eat basically like Kansas City barbecue. Or Memphis, maybe. But in West Texas, they get their own. And like you said, they're not even using pork. It's beef. They're cooking brisket over mesquite. That's Texas cowboys style barbecue, which some people would argue is not actually barbecue. Yeah. And that's because the German immigrants who raise cattle in the west in West Texas yeah, I love brisket. Yeah, I've got no problems with brisket and pulled pork. I mean, I like them both. Right. Like, when I order like a catered, if I'm having a big party or something, I order a catered barbecue. I get one of each. The one thing I'm not crazy about is barbecued chicken. I like it. I mean, I make it at home because that's a quicker, easier thing to do, just like for dinner. But I don't ever order that in a barbecue restaurant. Right. I just did that. No. What a waste. Yeah. Do that home cooking. Sure. Memphis style. They were a port town because of the Mississippi River right there, and so they could get molasses more readily. So that's why Memphis has a very sweet tomato based sauce. Yeah. Delicious. And then have you heard of Alabama barbecue before? I had not. So the way. That this article puts it. It's a lesser known style from northern Alabama involving a white sauce made with mayonnaise, vinegar and lemon juice. For some reason that use of the word involving makes it sound like they're talking about some unpleasant business, which is hilarious. It doesn't sound very good, but I would try it. I've had that white sauce. I don't think I knew it was Alabama specific. Oh, really? Yeah, but I've had it before. Okay. So perhaps you can answer this one for me. Okay. What is Georgia Barbecue? Is it just basically like a ripoff of North Carolina? I don't know, man. We'll get slayed for this because we live in Georgia and I eat at barbecue places all over town. Yeah, I guess it's its own thing, but it doesn't seem it's a tart vinegary based sauce, but sweet as well. Well, most of the places I see in Atlanta have both. They have the vinegar sauce or the sweet sauce, like the really thick. And I think Kansas City is barbecue is sort of known. Henry Perry settled there and opened up one of the first barbecue restaurants and I think they kind of pulled from Memphis a little bit. I think they drew influences from all over because they were last. Yeah, but I think Kansas City is generally known for that kind of sweet and tangy sauce. But ones in Atlanta I've seen kind of have all kinds, but it's typically pork, although they'll have brisket on the menu. But most people, when they think of barbecue in the south or in Georgia, think of pulled pork. I think people think of both. Or maybe I'm just saying that because I do. I don't know. There's a lot of transplants in Atlanta, so maybe that's true. What's your favorite place in Atlanta? It depends on what you're looking for. Okay. It's ribs, obviously. Fat Mats, rib Shack. Okay. Is the real deal. Wings. Chicken. Fox brothers, obviously. Oh, okay. Yeah, their wings are good and their sauce is good too. And then for pulled pork, there's a place on Peach Tree Industrial and it doesn't even have a name, it just says like, Brick Pit Barbecue. But it's not even the name of the place. They're just saying like they have a brick Pit Barbecue. It's like that we do, all timely and you can tell like that same fire has been going since the late sixty s and it is just amazing. Just for like a regular old pulled pork sandwich with really good Brunswick stew and then like that plain white hamburger bun. Perfect. What about yours? I like Fox Brothers. Okay. It's good. My favorite barbecue is community barbecue. Yeah, I've never heard of that. It's really good. I guess you call that Decatur. It's in that shopping center with it's kind of the best food restaurant, shopping center in Atlanta because it's got a Thai place, an Italian place, a barbecue joint, an Indian restaurant that's not true. I have eaten there. It is good. It's got, like, seven restaurants, and all of them are a different ethnicity. Right. Which obviously wasn't an accident. I don't know who owns that, but, like, kudos to them, that's all. But Community barbecue is just the best. Their brisket is unbelievable, and their mac and cheese is indescribably good. Wow. That's really saying something, because usually mac and cheese is terrible at a restaurant. Oh, man. Stuff is so good. Yeah, you see him making it sometimes. And like, if you walk to go the restroom, you'll see in the kitchen, they're making these pans of mac and cheese. I don't know how much cheese goes into it or the different kinds. And they have cream and stuff, heavy cream. But it's just ungodly the amount of cheese they're putting on the side. It makes it good. They don't call it mac and some cheese. All right, let's take a break, and we're going to talk about sides for a minute. I got literally watery in the mouth talking about mac and cheese at Community, but typical sides are, like I said earlier, maybe some coleslaw, which will also vary by region. Brunswick stew, which is sitting here, was originally squirrel meat, but chicken will do. I've only had pork. Yeah, same here. Brunswick stew. Never had squirrel. Brunswick stew? Not into that. Sounds like a Mike Huckabee dish. Baked beans. Sure. I make really good baked beans. It's sort of the dish I will volunteer to bring to any cookout or chuck's baked beans. That's ironic because I make a good farting sound with my armpit. That's what you bring to barbecue? Yeah. What else? Well, French fries. It depends on the restaurant. But they usually be some kind of, like, French fries or something like that. To me, if you can wolf down anything besides the barbecue, they're not giving you enough barbecue. Like, yes, it's nice to have some sides or whatever, but it's the barbecue that's the point. Sure. And I think you should be able to get full just off of the barbecue. That's my opinion. Do you like it chopped? Or I guess you're doing the pork, cold pork. Yeah. See, brisket, they'll slice it, but I like it chopped for a sandwich. Right. And I do like to mix the chopped brisket up with the sauce. Yeah. So good. Oh, man. I'm really and I ate lunch, and I'm still just, like, super hungry. It's good stuff. Politics often has long been linked to barbecue. Way back in the old days of the colonies and the early days of American politics, they found a good way to get a lot of people together, talk to them about stuff, was to promise them food. Well, no, remember, it grew out of this tradition of we just killed a pig. So everybody come gather around. We're going to cook it and eat it together. And then politicians started showing up at these things or holding on themselves. Yeah. But yeah. There's a long tradition of politics and barbecues, and apparently 4 July what you think of as barbecue, like a holiday here in the States that's long been a barbecue holiday. That's nothing new. Oh, for sure. And apparently they used to get drunk and barbecue and read the Declaration of Independence. Yeah, that was the big fourth thing in the 1830s. They were such a big hit in the south. They started kind of spreading out politically. In 1836. That was Daniel Webster us. Senator. He was a wig. We should do something on the wigs. Sure. I like those dudes. He gave a two hour speech at a barbecue in St. Louis. So did candidate William Henry Harrison. It just became a tool at these rallies to get folks together and feed them, almost bribe them with food and booze. Was it called, like, plying the planters with Bumbo or something? Yeah, that was from the Bars episode. Yeah. But yeah, it's like, Here, eat these ribs and drink all this bourbon, and don't forget to vote for me. Yeah, exactly. And throughout the years of many, many presidents have thrown big, big barbecues from Linda Johnson to the Bushes. Not sure what's going on today. Trump didn't strike me as a Hitmaster. No. But Johnson apparently had something called barbecue diplomacy out on his ranch in Texas. He threw huge barbecues and vite VIPs and say, hey, I want you to sign this bill. Okay. Yeah. Look at Melbourne. Obviously, slavery in the United States played a big part because part of the sort of facade of treating slaves to a big barbecue as a reward for being slaves was something that happened on plantations. Right. But on the flip side, slaves would also have barbecues and go over plans for rebellion. I think the Nat Turner Rebellion was planned over a barbecue right. Or escape via the Underground Railroad in the civil rights movement in the Was barbecue. A lot of times, these barbecue restaurants in the south were sort of the meeting places and headquarters. Yeah. What's weird, especially in the Jim Crow era, is that barbecue places were segregated. So you'd have, like, black owned barbecue joints. White owned barbecue joints. Yeah. But the thing about barbecue is that it kind of transcends race and class, for sure, and that everybody in the south loves barbecue. Right? Yes. And apparently during the Jim Crow era, white people would sneak over to blackowned barbecue joints that had superior barbecue and get their takeout and go. And the reason they were able to do this is because at the time, and still in some places today, but at the time, barbecue joints were almost exclusively take out. And the reason they were taken out was because they were the evolution of a barbecue pit. And the pit Master role, especially in the Annabellum South, usually went to a slave. Right. So if you are a slave, who was the pit master on a whole plantation. You know how to cook some meat and you know how to cook it really well for a lot of people, both enslaved and not, probably didn't care about running a restaurant. No. But after Reconstruction or during Reconstruction, after the Civil War, all of a sudden you find yourself with extremely unique talent. And so maybe, like during the week you would go to work maybe as a sharecropper, and then on the weekend, maybe you would be the pitmaster for your church, right? And then people would say, this is so good, you should sell this. So all of a sudden, you build a shack around your pit, and all of a sudden you have a bit of a joint. So you put up a couple of stools and people come and you have a window, and they get their takeout and go, and then the car comes along, and all of a sudden your barbecue joint is like a destination that people are going to on their road trips, and then that's how the barbecue joints developed. Yeah. That's one of the coolest things about it to me in the south is that despite our very checkered and dark past. And even though a lot of that racism obviously is still around. If you go into a barbecue joint in Atlanta. You're going to find all stripes of people. All classes of people sitting side by side. Enjoying food together and being really friendly to one another and talking about the food. You'll see some, like, Wall Street dudes with his tie flipped over so he doesn't get it dirty next to a guy that's just come back fishing with a bunch of catfish in his cooler, feeding each other, drinking sweet tea. I don't know. It's cool, man. Go to, like, a tailgate at a Falcons game sometime. If you think like, the south is so divided still, and you'll see people getting along for the most part. In that case, the only losers, the pig, who are way smarter than we tend to think there's probably a T shirt at some barbecue restaurant. The only loser here is to pick. And this has struck me for a very long time. Using a pig as a mascot for a barbecue place is so sad, right? It's so sad. Yeah. It's like a McDonald's instead of the Golden Arches had just a big cow. Yes, a cow serving a platter of hamburgers. That's what they do. Or the ones that have wings because they're dead because you're eating them. Talking about civil rights movement, though, in Atlanta, we had a very famous restaurant here that was kind of one of the headquarters for Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. Have you heard of that place? Yeah. Alex A-L-E-C-K. Barbecue heaven was legendary. Atlanta place. Is this still around? Well, no. You want to know what it is now? No, I don't. Eminent domain came in, took it over, and it's now a Walmart. I know. Wow. Really? It's like you literally couldn't have written a worse outcome. I don't know. They could have put up a Texas barbecue place instead. Well, that's true. And here's the thing, though. For many years after Dr. King died, there was a sort of a shrine to him in this restaurant still. Sure. This is kind of where they met, and this is where it happened. And for many years, that was maintained and maintained. And I think in Walmart originally, they had that in the middle of boys apparel. I don't know where it was, but I think they actually referenced that or had photos commemorating that or something for a little while, but then took it out because they oh, man. What was the quote? They didn't think it represented the brand in the right way or something. I need to look it up. I wish. I got to go check that out in there. Walmart. It's right over sort of in the Atlantic University Center near kind of right near downtown. Okay. Yeah, like, right next to Morris Brown and Clark. Atlanta. Come on. I know. You got anything else? No. I mean, we hit a little bit on barbecue around the world. We're not going to get too much into it. But obviously, if you've had jerk chicken or barbecueA or Korean style barbecue, which supposedly we should say barbicoa is the word that Destro reported back to Europe about barbecuing. And they think it's a corrupted Tano word, but they don't have any Tino Indians to ask because the Europeans kill them all off. So no one thought to ask them first before they all died. That's a sad ending. Yeah. I got nothing else. Okay, well, if you want to know more about Martin Luther King, Jr. The Tano Indians, pigs, barbecue, Texas, all that stuff, you can type those words in the search bar@howtofworks.com. Since I said search bar is time for listening to Mail. Hey, guys. Just wanted to share with both of you a Vice News short documentary that came out tonight. It includes lots of great footage and first hand accounts of the streets of Charlottesville. This is in real time where the events in Charlottesville, Virginia, have just happened. Have you seen this documentary yet? No, I haven't, but this time it will have aired on HBO, on the Vice show. But it's out online now, and I encourage everybody. It's Chuck speaking. Have you seen it? Yeah. Well, it's only 20 minutes long. Sit through it all. It's extremely hard to watch. I'll bet. Very upsetting. And I watch it just before we came in here to record, which is the big mistake. Is it sensationalized or true life? No. I mean, they got a camera and a young woman to report kind of right in the middle of it all. So she interviews white nationalists. She interviews people fighting back against white nationalists. It's just in their own words, basically, like here's a microphone. What do you have to say? Yeah, I got to check that out. Yeah, it's not fun. Racism and ignorance back to the mail. Racism and ignorance on the scope are abhorrent and things that just need to be widely denounced in American discourse as UVA alum, I just want to say this rally does not represent the feelings and attitudes of the university or surrounding city, which has actually garnered a reputation as a refugee city in recent years. And I think most people know that these people came from all over the country and other countries, these white nationalists. Well, the whole reason they came is because Charlottesville is taking down their Confederate Memorial right to Robert E. Lee. That was the guys under which they met. I see. But it was clearly much more than that. That's where they met up, at least with their walmart tiki torches, which was hysterical and sad. I have been abid listening to your podcast for about a year now, and serendipitously enough, I have upon your episode on free speech this Friday of the protest on campus. I'm not one to strike down American liberties by any means, but it does make me wonder how things might be different in our society. We did have some kind of restrictions on things like hate speech and broadcasting certifiably false information just as a thought experiment. While I have been an open advocate for environmental protection at many times in my life, this is the first time in my life that I've openly posted for a cause involving racism and bigotry. I shared both the Vice News video and your free speech podcast. All my Facebook friends, I seek to be more public advocate for equality. From here on out, keep on doing great things. Your empathy, humor, and curiosity, you're greatly appreciated. This is from John in Washington, DC. Nice, John. Thank you very much. And I encourage everyone. Just Google Vice News. Charlottesville. Watch that 20 minutes. And I would really be interested if anyone can write in and defend anything that was going on there. And if like John, you want to let us know about something you think we should see, we are always down for that. You can tweet to us at syskpodcast or Josh can hang out with us@facebook.com. Stuffyshoodnow. Charleswchuck Bryant, you can send us an email to stuffpodcastworks.com. As always, join us at our home on the web stuffyshow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetopworks.com. Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school's out, the sun is shining, the daylights longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon music My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgarif and Georgia Hardstarke, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know, listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder one week early on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | |
The Gettysburg Address: Short and Sweet | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/the-gettysburg-address-short-and-sweet | The Gettysburg Address is one of the most famous speeches in political history, despite only being a few hundred words long. What was so special about this commemoration? We'll give you the skinny right here and now. | The Gettysburg Address is one of the most famous speeches in political history, despite only being a few hundred words long. What was so special about this commemoration? We'll give you the skinny right here and now. | Thu, 14 Jul 2016 15:29:17 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2016, tm_mon=7, tm_mday=14, tm_hour=15, tm_min=29, tm_sec=17, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=196, tm_isdst=0) | 41537292 | audio/mpeg | "Ah, summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good it's Criminal Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, Morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Ercart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this chart topping series will have you hooked before you know it. Listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. Picture this, friends. You could be packing a carry on for a trip to Hawaii when you realize you're going to need a bigger bag. But it's cool because you booked your flight with your city Advantage Platinum Select Card. So you can check a bag for free on domestic travel and still have room for those souvenirs. And surprise, those souvenirs also earned you Advantage Miles. Actually, you earned Advantage miles and loyalty points with each swipe. So let's start dreaming about your next next adventure. This could be you, and you could be anywhere with the City Advantage Platinum Select Card. Learn more@city.com adventure and travel on with cityadvantage. Welcome to stuff you should know from houseoffworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and it's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there. And this is stuff you should know. Podcast. NPR edition. No, Bob Ross edition. Oh, man, there's a documentary out about him. Yeah, I haven't seen it, but I will for sure. Oh, speaking up can't wait. I saw Bloodsport for the first time in my life the other week. The movie? Yes. Have you seen it? No. Oh, Chuck. I mean, that's all parts of it. But I love my bag every second of that movie. It was so great. They basically made a movie to show that John Claude Van Damme can do, like, crazy splits. They made a movie for that? Yeah. The only version I would watch of that would be, like, the Rift Tracks version. You don't even need Rifttracks. Yeah, but they make everything better. Sure, of course they do. But I would love to see a Rifttracks blood sport. I'm just saying it's a pretty great movie we're seeing. Yeah, the bad guy in it is just terrifying because he's so clearly insane. Really? And dangerous. Yeah. This guy is operating on a level no one else in the movie, including, surprisingly, Ogre from Revenge of the Nerds, is operating on. He's in it? Yeah. Wow. He's the trusty sidekick. Wow. What happened to Jean Claude? He's still around. I think he's all over, like, Twitter. Well, that doesn't surprise me. Yeah, I think a couple of times they tweets, like, hey, it's me, Jean Claude Van Dam member. Yeah, well, he had that big commercial that was out not too long ago. I didn't see that one where he did a split between, like, two trucks or something, like, with one leg on each truck, like, driving down the road. If I remember correctly, all he's reading is Kindle. Is it a kindle ad? I think so, and I think I didn't see him, but he's got to be in one of those dumb what are the movies with all the people with Schwarzenegger and Bruce Willis and The Last Temptation of Christ. Yeah, he's in one of those movies. Oh, Red. No. The Expendable. Yes. He's got to be in one of those, right? Probably. He would literally be the only person of that elk in those movies. I hope he is. Yeah, me, too. I saw Red the other day for the first time, too. That's pretty entertaining. Was it? Yeah. I haven't seen those, either. Some stuff just let's get serious, Chuck, all right? Yeah. Okay. We talked about JeanClaude Van Damme, and that can only mean one thing. Gettysburg Address, right? That's right, man. Here's a better question. Okay. You saw Lincoln, didn't you? I did not. You didn't? I know enough to know why we're talking like this. Supposedly, that is an accurate depiction of Abraham Lincoln speaking voice. Yeah, I read this article in The Atlantic. It was one of those things where the guy who's writing the book, like, writes a long draft of the book, but in article form, and they publish it, and the Words That Remade America is the name of the article and the book by a guy named Gary Wills. And he says, like, yeah, abraham Lincoln was a tenor who had a voice that you could very easily describe as shrill. Yeah. I remember when I saw the first trailer for the Lincoln movie. I think, like, most people, like, the Internet kind of blew up the next day. Like, what is going on with Daniel Day Lewis? Hey, guys, I'm Abraham Lincoln. So you did not see it? Not yet. I intend to. You know, here was my deal. I thought it was quite dull, and I went into it expecting a bit more of a profile on Abraham Lincoln's life. Isn't it more like about a two week period or something? It's really about trying to get the patient proclamation. No, it's trying to get the vote passed. I just can't remember the exact amendment or whatever. That shows how much I was checked out. The 13th, 14th. It was a very in depth look at the process of passing, like, legislation. I see. It was kind of dull then. That's just me. Where's all the action? Yeah. Where's the shootout? That Abraham Lincoln. Yeah. I want to run around with the sword free enslaved. I think that's Abraham Lincoln, vampire hunter that you'd like, I probably should have seen that one instead. But Daniel Daylowis is great. It was just a little dell for my day. I see. So I'm in the minority, probably, but this is just like sliding on an old suit, then reading this article right. Like, you're familiar with all this? An old boring suit? A little bit. And I want to be a Civil War buff. I keep trying to, like I hope to work myself into it, like reading. I got a book given to me, one of those big, huge books they all are, and I just can't quite crack it. Have you tried World War Two? Maybe that's more of your fancy. No, I need to buff it up. I see civil War buff because I can recreate stuff. No. Although I did just see, I did a hike at Sweet Water Creek State Park this weekend, and I didn't know it was a deal. I was walking down the wooded path, and there was a camp with a bunch of union soldiers and their ladies in authentic garb sitting around the campfire. And I was like, what's going on? Because it wasn't a big reenactment, like a big battle thing. It was just a Saturday night. I don't know, man. They looked like they were just camping in period costume. Maybe they had practice that day. Maybe. That's weird. I thought it was interesting. They were union soldiers, too. Did they pretend you were a time traveler? They did. I showed them my iPhone. They were like, what? Devil's magic? I did. Anyway, it was just weird. Let me ask you this. I have another question. Did you have to memorize the Gettysburg Address? Because this article on the site basically says that all students had to, and I don't know that. I don't know anybody who had to memorize the Gettysburg Address. No, we had to remember a part of Caesar's Address for English class. I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him. Blah, blah, blah, friends, Romans, countryman. Sure. I memorize that in high school. Did you have to, or did you just do it on your own? Yeah, I was just bored. I was playing basketball one day. Stop. And I'm trying to think what I had to memorize. No, I had to memorize that, which, now that I'm older, I think that is like, what a terrible way to teach it is memorize these words only they'll have no meaning for you. I thought what the thing meant. Really, it was just like recite this. I had to memorize the song Surrey with the Fringe on Top for a transportation plan, 6th grade. Really? Chicks and geese. Chicks and ducks and geese. Bedscurry with the fringe on top. Very nice. I was not expecting that in this episode. Just snickering because we haven't started yet. All right, so the Gettysburg Address is a surprisingly small document. That's one of the reasons why apparently school children have to memorize it, because it's just short. Yeah. But it would not be hyperbolic to say that it changed the tone of American politics forever from this very short speech that Abraham Lincoln gave on the Gettysburg battlefield when it was being dedicated as a national cemetery. Yeah, so let's talk a bit about the background. What was going on that day in November was, like you said, we're going to open up this brand new national cemetery, Pennsylvania, where so many people died at the Battle of Gettysburg. Yeah, a lot of them died. Yeah. From July 1 to July 3, 1018 63. Robert E. Lee and the Confederate Army. Buddha's with the army of The Potomac. I think they were soldiers from, like, Ohio, New York, a couple of other states. It was a lot of troops under General George Mead. It was a new general at the time. Southwest of Harrisburg. Yes. It might have been the first battle fought in the north. Yeah. There weren't a lot of Northern battles. No. Did you ever read the Confederate markers here in Atlanta? There they are. They're all over the place. Yeah, it's kind of weird sometimes, like, to drive a mile from my house and see, like, well, this is where so and so push back an army of 1000. Right. Right where this playground is. Yeah. Very strange. Like, every 10ft, there's one down here. Yeah. But like you said, not a lot of battles up north. This was one of the key battles that really swung the tide in favor of the north. And it was one of the bloodiest affairs in American history, for sure. Maybe human history, really. I'm sure it was up there. It was probably beaten by some World War II battles, for sure. But this is probably still up there with one of them. Yes, the Civil War had the highest casualties of any war. Or when the Civil War took place, it had more casualties than all other preceding wars put together, some not so statistic like that. I'm really curious what the trajectory of the country would have been had that not happened, especially the Civil War. Yeah, it probably would have just been two different countries. You think it would have been? I mean, the south is just like, we're succeeding. And the north said, no, you're not. And had the north just been like, all right, good luck, it would have just been two different countries, I think. I mean, go back even further. And what if it was just a unified country from the beginning? Like, what would the American South be like if they never would have been? Like, you know, we're seating what if it was truly a United States? I don't know, because when you ask that question, you're asking, like, could the issue of slavery, the huge divisive issue that people really felt strongly on either side, ending the center, too. They were pretty strong feelings. Like, could it have been resolved in any other way besides war? I don't know. Yeah, that's a great question. I'll bet there's historians out there who have tried to figure it out. Well, it always cracks me up, too, when you hear people in the south, they'll say, like, it was about states Rights. I'm Like, yeah. State's rights to own slaves. Exactly where they call it the War of Northern Aggression. Yeah. I mean, there was obviously more to it than slavery. But you're fooling yourself if you don't think that was the key driving component. It Definitely Was. Anyway, so Robert E. Lee goes up against the army of the Potomac, and of course, the range is estimated, but 23000 dead Union casualties, which is a quarter of the Union army. One Quarter. Not just the people who are fighting in Gettysburg. The whole Union army. 28000 Confederates, which is a third of the Confederate Army. Incredible. And this is over. I did some calculations. This is over three days. That is every 5 seconds someone dying. But that's if the battle raged for every second yeah, which obviously it didn't now, but every 5 seconds, somebody died. Isn't that Crazy? 700 Men Per Hour. And then the first two days. 35000 died in the first two days. So that was like the bloodiest two days of any American conflict, if I'm not mistaken. So it was a big deal. And it was not just a big deal in the number of casualties. It was a big deal in the fact that the north won this battle, that it was a Northern battle because up to this point the Confederacy had been beating the north pretty badly. As far as if you were looking at it as a battle by battle, if you're just taking a number of battles won Right. The south was winning the Civil War at the time, and Abraham Lincoln was fairly determined to use this occasion to help reinvigorate support for the war in the north. Yeah. So Lee loses retreats to Virginia on July 4 and he tried to resign because yeah, he tried to. And Jefferson Davis said, no, thank you. I got nobody better than you. Yeah. He was not pursued. Which was lincoln didn't like that. And other northern generals did not like the fact that Mead didn't put the pedal to the metal at that point. Yeah, because he could have ended the war conceivably. Had he taken out Lee's army, the rest of it, or captured them, that would have been the end of the Civil war right there. Yeah, true. And this guy's, like, sitting there getting his nails done. Lolly, gagging. So in the days following the Battle of Gettysburg, the Union soldiers were quickly buried, the ones that were immediately dead and poorly marked. Popper's graves, basically. Or maybe not popper's graves, but not what they deserved, as they were temporary graves. They Were Battlefield Grace. And so this man named David Wills, he was an attorney in the area, said, you know what? We need to do this right. And he spearheaded the effort of the National Cemetery with the Gettysburg Cemetery Commission. It was the first kickstarter. What? Back in. So he said, you know what? There's this guy, Eddie Everett. You Know Him? As Edward. He's sort of a rock star speaker. Yeah, big time. Former Secretary of State, former senator, president of Harvard College. This dude brings the house down. Let's get him in here, because this guy can go for, like, 2 hours straight without notes. Without notes? Yeah, and just, like, the most flowery pros. And he remembered every word of it. Two hour long speeches that were just amazing speeches that held crowds and rats, and he had no notes in front of them. Yeah. And so they agreed to delay it a little bit so he could be booked, because I guess he had another engagement. No, he said, this is great, but I need more than a month to prepare a two hour age. He wanted to do research. It was so soon after the war or after the battle that they dedicated it as a cemetery that the official accounts, or even, like, non official accounts, hadn't really started to emerge yet. He actually had to do his own interviews with people who were there to gather the information they needed to do a great speech on it. Well, yeah, because a large part of his speech was in our article. They said it was sort of like watching a TV, like Dateline or 48 Hours. Yeah. He had to recap the battle for everyone because Twitter was down and no one knew what was going on. And actually, he had Cred as a battlefield order. He gave him battle speeches at Bunker Hill and conquered. And actually, when this guy came to town and spoke at your battlefield, your battlefield was world famous from that moment on. That's how big a deal Edward ever it was. Yeah. In fact, he was so big of a deal, they waited, like we said, because he wasn't ready, and then said, oh, and let's also invite President Lincoln. Right. We'll speak for a couple of minutes. And apparently Lincoln took no offense to it. That was totally normal at the time. It was like a ceremonial thing. It was. And this was being conducted by the state of Pennsylvania, so at the time, you didn't really expect much federal involvement or support. But they're like, this is a big enough deal. We want to invite the executive branch. That is correct, sir. You want to take a break real quick? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. What if you were a global bank who wanted to supercharge your audit system so you tap IBM to UNSILO your data and with the help of AI, start crunching a year's worth of transactions against thousands of compliance controls? Now you're making smarter decisions. Faster operating costs are lower, and everyone from your auditors to your bankers feel like a million bucks. Let's create smarter ways of putting your data to work. IBM, let's create. Learn more@ibm.com. 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All right, so, Chuck, Lincoln actually was scheduled to leave at 06:00 a.m. The morning of the dedication ceremony, right? Yes. And he gets into town on the same day as the show. Yeah, like noon. Yes. Which is plenty of time. Something we don't even like to do when we have our shows. It's cutting a little closer. Yes, but it can be done. And he's the president and he's got a war to conduct, so no one expected him to come in early. Lincoln actually overrode that schedule and said, no, I'm going in the day before. This is important, I don't want to miss it altogether because this is a town of 2500 and they're expecting 15,000 people to come to this dedication service. Get me there early. Right. So he left the day before. Yeah. And he was put up at that lawyer's house, willis. I can't remember his first name or wills. The name Wills. Who wrote the thing? No, he said no relation. Okay. He's also not like a vampire. Right. He's still alive. He wrote the first hand account. No relation. It is me. Right. But he spent the night at that lawyer's house and this town is just packed. But the fact that Lincoln wanted to do this badly enough that he went early shows that this meant something to him. Yeah. And 15,000 people for back then. That's a large crowd. Sure. And I wondered, how in the world who hears this thing? The first 50ft of people? That was apparently another advantage of Lincoln shrill voice, is that he could project it really far. Yeah, but not to 15,000. Come on. I don't know. I would imagine that they had better hearing back then because they had to, and because they had fewer artificial devices that were damaging their hearing, probably. I think with every I just totally made that up. It extends it a few more feet, but I imagine 10,000 of those 15 were like just or maybe it's like a Monty Python skit and they're relaying it back and it changes each time. Like an Occupy Wall Street thing. Yeah. So he gets there the day before, and he was quite right there were plenty of dignitaries that were supposed to be there that waited to leave that morning, and they missed the whole thing because they were just late. So the day of the thing, the dedication, everett gives his speech and it brings the house down. It's exactly what everybody expects. Yeah. And the guy who wrote this article pointed out that I would have been bored to tears for a two hour speech, but apparently at the time, that was like entertainment. People were crazy for the stuff. Yeah. The longer the better. Yeah. She said that they had a much longer attention span because they hadn't been corrupted by television. Yeah. That's a bit of a leap, but sure. It makes sense, though. Yeah. Remember, short attention Span Theater on Comedy Central. I do. That was great. Indeed. So Lincoln gives his speech, and a lot of hay has been made over the last century, or almost a century and a half of the difference in length between Lincoln's statement, lincoln's address, and Everett's address. But there's really no point in comparing them in that sense. No one expected Lincoln to speak for a very long time. They expected him to dedicate the thing with some short remarks and that Everett was going to give, like, a two hour speed. So this didn't surprise anybody at the time. It just seems like in retrospect, when you compare the two and the power and the everlastingness of the two speeches, that it's like, wow, he did this in only two minutes. Wherever. It took 2 hours. Yeah. I think you said two different things. Yeah, but it's a myth that it was like people were like, I can't believe that was so short. That's all they were expecting. Yes, agreed. And in fact, it was so short. Here's a nice little tidbit. I thought the official photographer for the event, it takes a minute to get things set up. When you're taking pictures back then you're not just snapping away. And he took these pictures of Everett and was getting ready to take pictures of Lincoln and then got everything set in. Lincoln is walking off with a mic drop, basically. That may be a myth as well. I think it's a great story. It is a fantastic story. There's a ton of great stories out of here. Like, he wrote the thing on the back of an envelope on the train ride there. Supposedly not true. No. Because he was very well known as he was a practice order. He's a lawyer to start out with. He apparently poured over his speeches. Sure. So the fact that he went a day early to this and he decided he wanted to use this occasion to help drum up support for the war, he almost certainly wrote at least a draft in Washington before he left. Yeah, that's what they think, is that he wrote most of it, if not all of it, and then continue to work on it on the train. But I don't think there was ever an envelope involved. Correct? I don't think so. Yeah, it's traveling secretary or his fulltime secretary with him. John Hay. Yeah. John Hay ran it by him. I guess he was like, Bravo, boss, bravo. You're one another great one. And he went, thank you. They sipped their tea in stony silence for the rest of this train ride. We had a weird relationship. So should we read this thing? Oh, also, this is where that whole thing was like, was Abraham Lincoln gay? He shared a bed with a man. I've never heard that. Oh, yeah. There was a very well read biography that came out years back in the 2000 some time on Abraham Lincoln. Really popular. And in it the biographer is talking about how I think at the Gettysburg Address he shared a bed with the man. And one of the reasons why well, the reason why was because the town was packed. The town was so packed that even the president of the United States had to share a bed with somebody because there was just nowhere else for people to be. The guy who designed the cemetery had to sleep sitting up in somebody's front room in a chair that night, the night before the dedication because the town was so packed to the gills. But there was this whole, like, was above Lincoln gay? Was it an entire book not about him being gay. Okay. It was mentioned in that people read the book and then started talking about whether he was gay. Got you. Because my book would say was President Lincoln gay? And you would open it up and it said, who cares? The end. It would be like, why did they print 1000 blank pages after that? Civil War book. Yes, exactly. It's got to be four inches thick. And they make great door stops. Should we read this thing in full? Yeah, with a little music. Maybe something patriotic. Yeah. I think we should split it in half, though, as we do with our Halloween readings. Okay. What are we going with, your yakity sacks? I think we use Halloween. Otaninbaum. O tannenbaumb would be good. All right. Well, we'll see. This is Jerry's choice. Gerry surprises us. Do you want to start or finish? I will start. Because I have a feeling you're going to do better than me. Is that better to finish, then? Okay, go ahead. No, that's not right. Just kidding. Sorry. Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war testing whether that nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that this nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this, but in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hollow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. That was wonderful. It was okay. All right, I'm going to bring it home. Should I do it in high pitch now? That's why I figured I should go first. Bringing the helium. Here we go. The world will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us, the living, rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us, that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion. That we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. Boom. Abe out, and he dropped his mic. It really is the modern description of this speech is that it's a mic drop? Yes. 272, 273. Depends on what version you're looking at. Word under two minutes is all he needed. Under two minutes. And he was even interrupted with applause five times. Oh, really? And it still only took two minutes. And when he said this, Chuck, when he gave the speech, it was totally in contrast with the way politicians or any order at the time spoke. The two hour spiel that Everett gave yeah, a lot of raw, raw stuff. That was the standard stuff. Flowery language, lots of lofty rhetoric. Well, admonishing the Confederacy. Admonishing? Is that the right word? Sure, yeah. Just a really kind of a rabble rousing type of thing. But the idea that a politician would get up and give a plain spoken speech was new as of the moment abraham Lincoln gave the Gettysburg Address. The guy, the author, Gary Wills, the historian, not the lawyer who set the whole thing up, allegedly not the same guy. He points out that Everett what's his first name? Edward. Edward Everett gave his speech at the last moment in history when it was customary to give a speech like that, because Abraham Lincoln got on stage right after that and changed it forever in the opposite direction. And they say that he changed American speech for not just like speaking, not just oration, but also writing. And that Mark Twain's modern novel, Huckleberry Finn, the first modern novel, followed in the footsteps of the Gettysburg Address, or the way of speaking and talking that Lincoln laid down in the Gettysburg Address like. He just changed everything. Wow. Yeah. All right, well, let's take another break because I have to reflect on that. 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LifeLock monitors your info and alerts you to potential identity threats. And if you are a victim of identity theft, a dedicated US based restoration specialist will work to fix it. Identity thefts have had it easy for far too long. Now, finally, it's your turn. Just remember, no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. But everyone can save up to 25% off their first year by going to Lifelock.com stuff. That's Lifelock.com stuff for 25% off your first year. LifeLock identity theft protection starts here. Speech changer. That's what you said. It was a speech changer, and it was amazing. And whoever wrote our article who was that? Tiffany Connor. Oh, Tiffany Connor. She's great. She points out that it was a time when they were starting to send messages via telegraph, so that also tied in and that people were trying to get to the point a little quicker, I think, because of the telegraph. I started talking. Somebody just snap your fingers like, come on. Yeah, out with it. Like you're sending a telegraph. Gentlemen on this day. And they're like, all right, yeah, we know what day I need to go to the bathroom, is what I'm trying to say. So they were just striving for a more concise language, and I think Lincoln really like he dotted the I, maybe even crossed the T as well. Yeah. And said, this is the better way to talk. And it sounds even a little flowery to us, but like, we should have read parts of Everett speech. Yeah, that's where we failed. We failed pretty badly. All right, so what else was different about it? It was a pretty radical idea at the time, because what he kind of did with his speech well, not what he did. What he very much did was say, let's take a big picture of you, of this thing. And they point out he doesn't talk about slavery or the Confederate Army or the Union Army. He talks about things in very broad terms and basically says, you know what? The Declaration of Independence was the bomb. That was the deal. The real deal. Right. And the Constitution is the means by which we serve that document. Because at the time, there were Southerners going, well, slavery is not even in the Constitution. Right. It was very much if not that the Constitution was the guiding document of the United States government, then at least no one was saying that the Declaration of Independence was. Lincoln was basically saying with this speech, he was reframing it. He was saying, no, the Declaration of Independence laid out the ideals. The Constitution is just the vehicle you use to get to those ideals. And let's all remember that in the Declaration of Independence, it talks about all men being created equal. Right. And in today's modern world, where it's going to substitute men with humans. Yeah. And even at the time, obviously, people weren't so far along that Lincoln was like, you know, and slave should be completely equal to us starting today. Like it was even a process for the north right. To bring about equality over time. But just the notion that we deserve everyone is born and deserves equality was a radical idea for sure at the time. Yeah. As I was researching this, I had to go back and reread the Address a couple of times, and once I did, it really started to sink in. Yeah, me, too. Finally, now, in almost my 40th year on this planet, I can understand the Gettysburg Address. You should not be teaching this to school children. It's totally meaningless to them. We'll break it down sentence by sentence and really explain it. Sure. Okay. If you have, like, the Poet Society feature. Yeah. Captain my Captain. Who is the guy that Matthew Perry played? Ron somebody? Chandler Bing. Chandler Bing was a different role. This is a teacher, like a really inspirational teacher name. Oh, really? Something, yeah. You're thinking of Edward Jamie? Almost. That was the Milagro beanfield war. No. Stain and Deliver? No, that was the bamba. We got off track. What was my point? That Matthew Perry was the best friend. This doesn't mean anything to school children, but one of the reasons why is not because it's above their heads. Because this is the way we see America now, but the reason we see America and America government and the idea that it's by the people, of the people, for the people, and that people are created equal in that is, the ideals of the Founding Fathers were laid out in the Declaration of Independence. And then that's the true guiding document. The reason we see these things is because of the Gettysburg Address. These 272 ish words. He changed the way that all Americans from that point forward saw America. And as a matter of fact, again, Gary Wills points out that prior to the Gettysburg Address, people referred to the United States in the plural form, like, The United States are a great place to visit. A collection of states. Yes. Afterwards, it became single and unified and a singular noun. The United States is a great place to visit. That came after the Gettysburg Address, except for these states. Right. You're clear of these. I had a great Shakespeare teacher in college, that man, I wish I could remember his name, because I would shout him out, but Shakespeare's tough for most people. He literally every day in class, we would sit down I think we do, like, three plays a year or a quarter in one class, and we would just read the thing, and he would stop about every 30 seconds, say, here's what that means, here's what he's saying, and we go, oh, that's what that means. And we would read the next section. Someone would read it. He goes, here's what that means, he's really saying. And he would really put it in, like, that's great terms college kids can understand. Like, you know, when your friend does this and blah, blah. That's what's happening here with Horatio. Right. And it was just like it blew my mind, because we all left with complete, full understanding of, like, three plays at a time. That's so neat. And would scramble to sign up for his Shakespeare Two class because he was so awesome. And I don't know, it seems like such an effective way to teach when you're talking about these old languages. You can sit around and read chaucer all day unless someone's explaining what it means, because these stories are wonderful, amazing stories. Well, chocolate in particular, too. Yeah. But if you don't get it, it's not hitting home. Right. You got to, like, liking it to something that they identify with. Yeah. Or basically completely master old or Middle English. Yeah. Who wants to do that, right? That's neat, man. I wish you could remember the guy's name. Is it Mr. Ames? No. Mr. Barr? I think it was Mr. Carr. Dr. Bing. Okay, so these days, the Gettysburg Address, there are a few different versions of it. There are at least five they believe versions, and I think two of them now actually written down versions are at the Library of Congress. Are they on display? They're probably on display, right? Sure. Or you can just be like, let me see one of the Gettysburg Addresses, and they'll run off and get it. Yeah, you just got to put a 50 in their front pocket. So you can actually look at these. And they're mostly the same, except for just some little revisions here and there that he made, I guess, post Address. Yeah. Because he knew the document would live on. Sure. And if they had dressed this confused me for a second, but I had to wrap my head around it. If he had dressed before, then it would have proven unequivocally that he had written it before he was on the train. But the fact that that myth is still around is because there's no fact to counterbalance it. So that means that all the drafts came after there were copies that he made. Right. Okay. That imagine his secretary wrote down himself. I think he gave him some to him, but yeah, I'm sure John Haye was responsible for it. But John Hay had one that is in the Library of Congress, right? Yeah, but it's funny that you don't think about, like, I need, like, four copies of this. So start writing. Get out the pen. And would it kill you to draw some rabbits? Doing some weird things in the margin? So what about the reaction? I think there's been a lot of disagreement, depending on who you talk to. Some people say in the moment at the place, it wasn't super well received, but other people are saying, like, no, that's a myth. Yeah. Apparently it's another big myth. Especially he walked off and was like, man, they really hated that I blew it. Yeah. He knew that it did exactly what he wanted it to. Yeah. He wanted to drop the mic, and he did. And supposedly the crowd was pretty happy with it. People like, Why did he drop that corn cobb? Why is he talking into it the whole time? So weird. And why did it amplify his voice? That was the most surprising part. Well, who cares if they liked it or not at the time? We love it now. Yeah. Go crazy over it. Sure. And clearly, we've been breathlessly talking about how great the Gettysburg Address is. This whole time, we haven't even entertained the other side. That it sucked. You know what else we didn't do was the very thing we said it would be a great way to teach people. We should have read it, and after every few sentences, broken down what it meant. That's not our job. Right. We're not going to do all the work. Do you want to? No. Okay. We'll let the teachers do it. Yeah. I encourage this should be in classrooms. Do we say anything really bad in this one? Yeah, this is a teaching aide. Watch this. Turn record over now. Remember that. Yeah. Okay. If you want to know more about the Gettysburg Address, ask your teacher. And you can also go on to our great website, housetofworks.com, and type in Gettysburg Address. No h at the end. We're not in Scotland. No. Since I said Scotland, it's time for a listener mail. By the way, quickly after the other day talking about the rules rules on Sushi, I went and watched it again, like, three times. Yeah, I still haven't seen it. Did you watch Bagboy? That one listener? No, I still didn't see it. I looked it up. I have it sitting on a Google search. I just haven't had time to give any attention to it, maybe in the fall. I remember what it was specifically about it that really killed me is that he says, sushi. Sushi. And the intro saying, we have a chef here to make some delicious sushi sandwiches. Sushi sandwiches. All right. This is from I know you remember Kathleen of Cooper Cats, the PR agency. Oh, yeah. Former PR agency. Yes. Many years ago, we farmed out our PR to this great company in New York, cooper Cats, and Kathleen worked there, still does. And she was awesome and super nice. And she wrote this in about something she's working on, this dear to her heart, which I think is pretty important. Hey, guys. And she had some nice things to say early on, flowery rhetoric, like Edward Everett. Just catching up with this, but I won't bore you with that. Hey, guys. It wasn't boring to us, by the way. I just don't want to hey, guys. I was writing because of one of our clients nowadays is Memorial Sloan Kettering cancer center. They're the oldest and largest private cancer center in the US. And we're beginning a big public awareness press push around misconceptions and misperceptions and myths about clinical trials that people have about them. While this is for a client is really important to me, I've learned a lot of things. One, only 4% of patients participate in clinical trials. 4%? Wow. That's alarmingly low. Even though they're at the root of every current in future advanced in treatment, people have negative impressions of clinical trials, and that changes as soon as they learn more about them. Other things I learned through my work with MSK, things I learned about my work with Memorial Sloan Kettering, I had no idea about before the trials. They are not just for last resorts clinical trials. Many of the best treatments are offered early in treatment through clinical trial participation. Clinical trials are much more targeted today through genetic screening, tumor testing, and precision medicine. Doctors have a much better grasp of what works and what will not. Almost no clinical trials for cancer involved placebos, though. Most people are concerned about this. Yeah, I want the drug. Yes, exactly. And cost is a huge concern for people thinking about enrolling. And yet almost all out of pocket costs for treatment are covered. So that is from Kathleen. Yeah. She makes some good points there, Charles. She does. I never really thought about it. I think we just got pranked. PS. If you happen to need a good cry, memorial Sloan Kettering and I do not, by the way, Kathleen, they just wrapped up a two week partnership with humans of New York. You ever heard of that website? Yeah, man, they're great. It's an incredible photo documentary of the world of pediatric cancer. So many of the miracles documented were results of clinical trials. That's why I'm so passionate about pushing this information. And Kathleen just had her second little baby. Oh, congratulations. And important stuff so look into clinical trials and maybe we should do a show on them one day. We definitely should. Yeah. I really am surprised that we haven't already. Have we not? I know we did a human experimentation, but we probably talked more about the sorted side of it, the gruesome. Oh, yeah, we did. And we talked about the regulations on people who are human guinea pigs. Yeah. We will do one on clinical tron. Yeah. So that's awesome. Kathleen, it's cool when you can do work that you can PR with a good feeling. And we're sorry about our PR episode. I'm not. I stand by that. No, I think it's a great episode, but it probably should have been called The Legend of Edward Renee's and left. This is what PR is like. It was a fun episode, wasn't it? It certainly was. If you want to know more about us, you can hang out with us on Twitter at syskpodcast. Same goes for Instagram, where you can see pictures of our pets and stuff like that. You can also hang out with us on Facebook, at Facebook comichino, and you can send us emails to stuffpodcast@howstephorse.com. Lastly, hang out with us at our home, on the web, our Playhouse for the Internet. Stuff you should know.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetepworks.com. Hey, everybody. 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Why Ticks Suck | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/why-ticks-suck | It's no surprise that ticks are one of mankind's least favorite animals. After all, they subsist on blood and spread disease. But how much do we really know about ticks? Tune in to learn more about ticks -- and how to get rid of them -- in this podcast. | It's no surprise that ticks are one of mankind's least favorite animals. After all, they subsist on blood and spread disease. But how much do we really know about ticks? Tune in to learn more about ticks -- and how to get rid of them -- in this podcast. | Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:15:24 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2010, tm_mon=7, tm_mday=27, tm_hour=17, tm_min=15, tm_sec=24, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=208, tm_isdst=0) | 37720616 | audio/mpeg | "Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Rlsw Chuckers Bryant. And that makes this stuff you should know. If you didn't know, now you know. Happy birthday, Judge. Thanks, Chuck. It's your birthday? It is my birthday. You're 34. You're closer to me in age now for about a half a year. Yeah. And I'm six months older than Yuumi, which makes me a year older than Yummy right now. Oh, is she your age? Yeah. Not enough. I think it's so funny. It's okay when you say that because you are way older than me. But it's funny when people say that about people who are like a year or two different. They're like somebody they're almost our age. Our age is maybe a year and a half on either side of your age. Sure, maybe two years. But I often think we're the same age until you do something that reminds me. It's because we both act like we're eight. That's where we're on the same page. Yes. Case in point. Where is the worst place you've ever had a tick? Well, Josh, I know you know, because we share a commonality and I said, aside from the show, I should warn you, I'm not going to fess up to anything on this one. Before you do, I just want to give you fair warning. Well, since I said that we share this I don't know what you're talking about, dude. Josh and I have both had a tick in a very unfortunate place if you're a man. They were different ticks, though. Yeah. Okay. As far as we know. Good. Well, years apart. Mine was last summer. This is the worst birthday ever. When was yours? Oh, mine was years and years ago. I had two ticks last summer. Did you really? In horrible places? Well, no one was on my thigh and it still itches and swells into a little bump every now and then. They want to get that checked out. It's fine. I read up online. Sounds fine. Now I read and they said that tick bites can still bother you for like years, evidently, if you have Lyme disease or something like that. Okay, well, we're talking about ticks. Can I say the inspiration for this real quick? Sure. Because I'm curious myself. As you know, Josh, our unofficial house band, the Henry Clay People yes. Out of La. Are they kicking fested? They came through town about a month ago, stayed at my house. About a week and a half later, I got a call from Joey, the lead singer and songwriter guy, and he said, hey, you got ticks in Georgia? I said, sure, there's ticks all over the place in this country. He got ticks in la. And he said, Geordi, our keyboard player, has Lyme disease. Holy cow. He thinks he probably got it from your house. Wow. Cause, you know, I live in the wooded section of Atlanta. Yes. Actually most of Atlanta is wooded. Yeah, I think George is one of the most wooded states in the country, from what I understand. Yeah. So Jordy got Lyme disease and I am very sorry, Jordan, if you got that from my house and residence yeah, it is likely. But although you were on tour, dude, you could have gotten it from anywhere. Yeah, it's likely because he's like the 8th or 9th person this year to get Lyme disease after visiting you're. Like, maybe you know what that would make your house, Chuck? An infested haven of disease. A disease vector. Yes. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. All right, here is my original intro. Are you ready? Sure. That was great, Chuck. Thank you. That was great. I was going to say Chuck. Josh, there is a tick species called Epanoma moto ends. This is fascinating. It is a tick and it looks almost completely like the scale of a Komodo dragon. It's only host the only animal that it feeds on is the Komodo dragon. Right. If it's sucking the life out of a Komodo dragon, you can't tell just by looking at it that it's a ticket. It looks like a scale. Crazy. That is the most interesting thing anyone has to say about any tick anywhere. Okay. That's it. Does that explain why the Komodo dragging the tech? Sharon Stone's husband? Yeah, it does. That's what I read. It was mad in the Daily Mail disease. Yeah. Well, since we've already gotten the most interesting part of this podcast out of the way, Chuck's tick story. The Henry Clay People's Lyme diseased. Drummer. Right. Keyboard player, keyboardist. And I should mention you can buy the album somewhere on the Golden Coast. You're such a shill. What percentage are you getting of gross sales? Nothing. And then we've got the Epinama Komodo story. Yeah. So we're going to get to explaining ticks just because what we're doing here is explaining every aspect of the universe, right? Yeah. Ticks are a part of it. One at a time and everyone stuff. You should know, lovers, we have to charge through this together. Yeah. And I kind of see this as sort of a half kind of interesting and half public service announcement. Yeah. Because it's summertime and ticks are everywhere. That is a great idea. And a lot of people there's a lot of misinformation out there about ticks and how to remove them. So we're going to say straight. Yes. Thanks, Chuck. Way to frame that. Sure. There is a lot of misinformation out there, misunderstandings specifically with ticks being insects. Right. They are not insects. They are arachnids. Yeah. They have eight legs. Yeah. Well, they're born with six, like an insect. Right. But they will ultimately develop eight unless they're disfigured. Right. They are not spiders, though. They are in the same group, arachnids as spiders. But spiders have segmented bodies and ticks is just one nasty, bloody lump of a body. That's right. And there's about 850 species of ticks. I didn't know that in the world, and I didn't either. I thought it was just like, I hate you when I hit you more. Right. Generally, you can divide ticks into two general types. The hard tick and the soft tick. Yeah. And the hard tick. I get the impression that if there is such a thing as intelligent design, the hard tick was like, version 10 and the soft tick is version 2.0. Yeah. Hard ticks are like the philistines of the Arachnid world. They are an example of just the single minded ruthlessness of genes to anthropomorphize. Right? Yeah. Their entire purpose in life is to suck blood so they can reproduce and die. So they can make babies that suck more blood. Yes. Blood suckers are I'm a big animal guy, as are you. And I even save insects. I won't kill a bee or a spider. I will usher them out somewhere else. I won't either, but flies, mosquitoes, ticks and fleas, no use form. You and I are on the exact same page. Those are the only four insects that I'll kill. I won't kill a roach. I won't kill the hell out. Never did anything to anybody. It just happened to be, unfortunately, ugly and like, scuttle. That's what it is. Roaches scuttle. That's why we don't like them. You can't kill something for scuttling, something for being a parasite. If it moved really slowly across the room, I probably wouldn't kill it. But the fact that they run like they're looting exactly. Makes me want to kill them. All right, so those are insects we hate. I don't mind roaches. I'm not going on record with you on that one. Well, what does Yuumi do when she sees a roach? I try to keep roaches out of Yummy site if we ever see them. I'm like, hey, look over here. And I'm kind of brushing it out like, good, older dude. Got you. Yeah. So, Chuck, we were talking about the differences, the hard tick and the soft take. Right. Let's talk about the commonalities. Ticks are pretty basic creatures, right. They are one cell organisms. Right now they're not. I'm just trying to jazz us up a little bit. Okay. The commonalities are a body, eight legs, I think, eyes on either side. Generally, most of them have eyes. And then the capitulum, which is the mouth part, right? Yeah. Mouth parts is actually a word, a single word. So gross. Mouth parts, blood sucking, engorged. Everything about ticks is wrong. Blood meal. Yes. And then you've got on the hard tick something called a dorsal shield or a scutum. Right. And that's pretty much it. Unless you want to get into the details of the mouth parts, which really, just to add a little more time to this podcast, we probably should. No, they get in your body. That's what matters. What was interesting, though, my friend, is the legs are covered in little spiny hairs, and the legs have a tiny little pinter claw at the end, and they use this to climb up grass blades and vegetation, sticks, trees. And we'll go ahead and talk about questing, should we, since we're right there? Why not? This is how the hard tick feeds. It goes on a quest, and it literally will wait on a blade of grass with this little pincher claws up in the air for somebody to brush by them, and then they'll go, Ha. And then they'll latch on to your pant leg or shoestring or whatever. Or your face. Yeah. And then it's all over. Right. But we'll get into questing more. But that's what they use their little pictures for. I don't think there's anything more to questing. You're right. I got to veto you, man. We should talk about the mouth parts. Right. Okay. So you've got like a little what looks like their head that's actually their mouth parts. Right? Right. You have two flaps on the side that are called palps. Yes. Right. Yes. That's a beautiful illustration you have there. Full color, shiny. So the pouch, when a tick get on you right, and starts digging in, the pouch move to the side. Yeah. They're not part of the eating and digging in process. Then you get the Chelsea yes. Which are two, I guess, kind of cutting boring mouth parts and not boring like more like yeah, boring into your skin. Right. And then you have the hyposome, right? Yes. Which is this barbed needle like protrusion that they just go and start sucking blood. But it's barbed, and the hooks curve backward toward the tick, which makes it harder to pull out, like a hook. If you pull a tick out the wrong way, you just pull its body right off of its head, and head stays in there. We'll get into how you can get rid of a tick appropriately. Right. Speedily safely. Yes. With the whole thing intact. So you can do what I do and drop it into a glass of bleach and alcohol and just let it die. Oh, I put mine in a Ziploc so I could take it suffocating. Well, no, just in case I needed to take it to the doctor if my vice had a bullseye rash on it. Well, yeah, I mean, you can take the glass of the doctor, but that's true. Yes, good point. You just wanted to kill it in a cruel way. Yeah. Okay. I hate those things, man. Well, who likes ticks? So you'll notice then that you've got the barbed Hyperstone. You have the hooked legs, right? Yeah. Everything that has to do with ticks has to do with hanging on. Right. And digging in, parasite sucking. Right. As Tracy Wilson put it in this article, they are basically like a living blood pump. Yeah. All they feed on is blood. Right. So gross. And the entire point of their life is to eat so they can grow up and reproduce and die, like we said, right? Yeah. And when they eat, Josh, their body, their Idiosoma, if you want to get technical, it expands. A male tick has the scutum or scutum on the back. I'm not sure what it is. I said scutum, but I couldn't tell which way. Either way, we're both too lazy to go on to Miriamwebster.com, aren't we? So what happens is the body of a hardtick male hardtick can't stretch that much to hold the blood softticks, don't have the scutum, but they don't require a whole lot of blood to live and lay eggs. Right. The real nasty one of the bunch is the female hard pick. That's the one that goes from the size of about a sesame seed to something like the size of male. Nice chuck. Yeah, I saw one of my dog when I was a kid, and that it stuck with me. A big gorge tick that was like a big purple balloon. It was disgusting. Their body is also very flat, so they can lay flat while they're feeding. This is especially important for a hard tick, because the hard ticks are born, they feed, they reproduce, and they die. Right. So the heartache, female especially, will sit there and feed for 24 hours. And that's really dangerous as far as survival goes, because you're just sitting there feeding, hoping no one notices. Right. You get larger. Yeah. And you get bigger and bigger and bigger. And then finally, if you make it until you're done with your blood meal, you can fall off and lay some eggs after mating. As many as 18,000 eggs. Yeah. Did you see that picture? Yeah. There's a picture in this article. Pretty boss. Lot of those ones, it looks like caviar coming out of the bottom of a tick. You don't want to put that on the record. The tick just pooped out a bunch of caviar. That's what it looks like. Can we talk about two amazing facts, Josh, about how the tick does its work when it rips into your skin and dives in? I thought we got the amazing facts out of the way. No, no, no. These two are pretty amazing to me. Lay your mommy string bean ticks do two things when they feed that blow me away. They excrete a cement like substance into your body where they attach to make it harder for them to fall off, and that dissolves when they're ready to fall off. Fact number one I know they're like spitting up like that shot that tastes like cement in your mouth. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, it's awful. And number two is they have a substance to prevent your blood from clotting, so they can just continually drink and it won't heal. And that's all in their saliva. And this happens from a tick's mouth. They have cement and blood thinners, basically. And they're spit chuck. Let's talk about the tick lifecycle. All right. Clearly you weren't as blown away by that as me. Now, a tick is born from caviar after the stork brings it to somebody's skin, maybe a lizard skin after the quest and latch onto your jean pant. Yes, right. Your pant leg. Yeah. Your jean paint. Your jean paint leg. So you're born. You are a tick larva, right? Yeah. And at that point, you are about the size of a period. And I couldn't find the font size for this, but you are about the size of a period at the end of a sentence, maybe. There's a big difference between ten and twelve point, and I mean, what if it's like 144 point? Yeah, but let's go twelve standard. All right, thanks for that. You have six legs, remember? Yeah. When you're born, you get six legs. If you got good genes, you're going to have eight eventually. But first you have to go find yourself a blood meal. And to do that, you have to crawl along the ground and maybe find a mouse with its tail hanging out or lizard, something with blood. And the closer to the ground, the better, because you can't really crawl that well yet. Yeah. This is just before you can if you want to grow up to be an adult tick, if you don't get that first meal, you're done. Yeah. It's like sea turtles. Sure. After you get that first meal, say you are a soft pic. Okay. You get that first meal, you're going to do it pretty quick. And then you get right. You go back down to the ground, you drop off. After you have your meal, you hang out. You're like, okay, that mouse tail was packed with energy. I'm growing, I'm growing. I'm literally getting too big for my shell. I'm going to mold. And now all of a sudden, I have an extra pair of legs. Look at that. And you might call me a nymph. That's exactly what you would be. Right. And then you say, well, you know what? Being a tick nymph, now that I've molded and not bad, a little bigger, it's kind of nice. I like your extra pair of legs. Right. Faster. Right. I'm hungry again, so I'm going to go get another blood meal. So gross. Okay. Yeah. So then you go, you get another blood meal, and then you drop off again. Sure. You stop hardening and clotting. That your hosts blood from your saliva. You drop off, you grow again, you molt. Now you're an adult. Now you're ready to reproduce. But first you have a little tick bar mitzvah, I guess. Sure. Or bart mitzvah or Botmin. But first you need a blood meal. So you go get another blood meal. Yeah. Right. And it's about here that the life cycle of most ticks begins to end. Right. Most ticks are three. Host ticks is what they're called. Yeah, but Tracy pointed something out I thought was interesting is that a tick that does not get their blood meal will die, but it could take like a year to starve to death. To starve to death. So they might be just in stage or adult stage or whatever, just pining away on that blade of grass, waving their little claw. No one ever walks by and they can't reproduce. They can't lay eggs. They can't do the bump with their little female tick friends. They can't do anything if they don't get their blood meal, so they just die. It's like on the couch, basically, right? And so you would think, well, then ticks are just stupid for being questers. It's such a willy nilly way to go look for food. But as we said, ticks do have eyes, and they can differentiate shapes, that kind of thing. So they can technically hunt us as parasites, right, but not really. Yeah, they can see colors. Yeah. So Tracy said they use that to get on a good blade of grass with a high likelihood of some schmuck camper like me walking by. They also can sense carbon dioxide that animals exhale. So that's kind of cool, actually. So let's say you are a tick that has you're a female hard tick, and you're engorged you've just mated. The mail you mated with just went off and died right after mating. Yeah. Well, you both eat first, right? And then you come together and you're like, hey, I'm super full, and then you mate. That's why I called in the Philistines. They're like, let's go eat and then have sex. And then I'll die. So you're the female. Okay, where are you going? You said I'm the female. Oh, and then after the guy goes off and dies, you're like, oh, I better go lay my eggs. And then there's all this caviar that comes out, right? And now you're dead. And then the life cycle begins anew, right? Generally, I don't think they always die, but generally the female dies after they lay eggs. And the male dies after they do that thing. Yes, do their thing. Do that thing. Yeah. So, Chuck, that's the life cycle. I wish we had some sort of applause, right? That was riveting. It was. If at any point, let's say you remember I said that most ticks are three host ticks. Yeah. If at any .1 of those hosts, especially the first or second host, happens to be a diseased host, then ticks become their disease vector. They're a diseased vector, right? Yeah. But you can also I don't even think you said you can be a one host tick. If you find a very gracious host, you might stay there your whole life, right? If you are a hard tick, yeah. You can be a one or two host, right? But if you're a one host, like you said, you're born, and then you go start feeding wherever you're born and you reproduce and die. You're like, this interior thigh is nice. I think I'll just stay here for my whole life. Yeah. So, Chuck, if they do become a disease vector and by the way, ticks are the number one disease vector in the animal world, and among humans, they're number two only to mosquitoes as bugs that spread disease. Crazy. Yes. If you are a disease tick, what are some of the things that you're going to spread? Well, Josh, you can spread I know everyone sort of Rocky Mountain spotted fever, that is started out, obviously, in the Rocky Mountains, but now it's kind of in many places in the US. Because of animals that migrate and move around. Right. If you're in Australia, you can get Queenland's tick, Typhus or Finlander's Island spotted fever. Yes. Or the big one is Lyme disease. Yes. Which Jordan has. Yeah, he got the kind that goes away with some antibiotics. I think you can get it for life, if I'm not mistaken. I think so. I didn't do a whole lot of Lyme disease research, but I worked with a director one time that did a short film on Lyme disease. No, he had Lyme disease, I think, forever, and needed to take a little afternoon naps because it would wear it, or he was just a lazy liar. So Lyme disease, the big giveaway for that one is a bullseye rash. It's an inflamed raised area. Wherever the bite was, that's the center. So it's real red and then kind of pale skin or regular skin color and then real red again. Yeah. Like a ring around it. Right. Or bullseye. Right, exactly. So if you have that, you are in big trouble. And Rocky Mountain spotted fever, I don't think Lyme diseases, but Rocky Mountain spotted fevers are rickettsiol illness. And I looked this up. So basically you have a fever, general malaise, headaches, muscle cramps, you're tired, you're feeling lousy. Yeah. You can actually die from Rocky Mountain spotted fever if you don't get anything treated. If you're, like, out doing the Ted Kaczynski thing and you never get treated for anything, you could die. That's the second time today you've mentioned Ted Kazin. I know. He's coming back. Are you bringing him? No, he's not really coming back. Don't worry. If you're bitten by a tick that, say, is spreading a protozoa or a bacteria that's going to give you some sort of infection, you are not necessarily going to get it immediately. Apparently the rule of thumb is it takes about 4 hours for a tick to transmit a disease. Right. And it does so in a number of ways. The first way is through its saliva. Another way is if you squeeze a tick, it can regurgitate blood back into your skin. Oh, that's what I was doing. Right, okay. And either one of those ways could spread the disease again. It takes about 4 hours. So a good way to combat ticks, if you're in a combat situation, is to look every couple of hours and you want to look around your scalp. Sure. You want to look in the folds, like your armpit folds, your neck behind the ears. Do you have like one of those hot dog packs, like for a neck of your neck? You know what I'm talking about? I do. Around your collar, the band of your whitey, tidy, that kind of stuff. Nether regions. Yeah. Which we don't need to get back to that story, but no, we don't. Those are dark, spooky, damp places and ticks like to go there. Right. So if you find a tick, there's a certain way that you want to get rid of it, right? Only one way. Pretty much all those wives tales are no good. Take it. Check. Yeah. If you put a nail polish on it and it'll suffocate it or put a hot match on it and it'll release from you, all that stuff is going to make it do is and it will vomit disease blood into your body. So none of those things are right. So what you want to do, Josh, you want to get some tweezers and you want to grasp the tick very firmly, right, as close to where it attaches to your skin as possible. What you don't want to do is twist it or yank it out really fast. You want to pull firmly and really slow and straight up and straight back or straight up from your body. Straight up. And you want to pull it. Remember, a tick's body is flat so it can lay flat. This is straight up. If you were holding the tick up by its bottom and its head was going straight down. Straight up from where it's head is burrowed into your skin. Yes. So if he's flat on your skin, you need to get up under him and pull him right, like perpendicular and then out. But you want those tweezers making contact with his mouth parts, right? Oh, yeah. Not his head or his body because you're going to pull his body right off of his head. Yeah. Or you can squeeze the abdomen and that will make it go right. So you don't want to squeeze the belly of the tick immediately afterward. You want to wash the area with soap and water. Oh, you left out a step. What's that? You want to drop the tick into a glass of alcohol and bleach. Yeah, but like I said, don't do any of those other stupid home remedies. There's really only one way to get the tick out. And you know we mentioned the cement like substance in the saliva? Yeah. It actually works better the longer it feeds. So if the tick has been in there a little while, it's going to be harder to remove for that reason. Because the cement is working, right? Because you have the cement, you have the barbed hyposome, you have the hooked legs. The thing doesn't want to let go until it's ready to. So you have to make it want to with your tweezers, right? Yes. So there are some ways to protect yourselves from ticks. In the first place, white colored clothing helps because ticks show up against them very easily. And if you see some ticks crawling on your light colored clothes, take some packing tape and make a ring around your forefingers. And then just like you're getting hair off you. Yeah, that's like the cheap lint roller. Poor man's lint roller, right? Yes. Or in this economy, just about everybody's lint roller, am I right? You want to wear long sleeves. And the rest of the sentence is the best visual that I got from this entire article. You want to look like a dork, basically, wear long sleeves, comma. And tuck your pants into your socks or boots. Can you just see Tracy Wilson working out in the yard with, like, her pants tucked into her socks? Yeah, with a hat. Wear hats. Number three, you should wear a hat and wear gloves. And you can use insect repellent with DEET. And if you're interested in learning more about DEET, I wrote a pretty interesting article about DEET. Not long enough to do a podcast, but I would recommend reading it. Deed is nasty, though, dude, check out my article. Isn't it really harmful? Just read the article. Just type in DEET in the handy search bar. So obviously the gloves thing is if you're working in the yard and that's where you're going to find a lot of ticks around wood piles. And, well, they say to keep your yard in shape, because if you have well, kempt mode lawn, you're not as likely to have ticks as if you got weeds and piles of garbage, right? Because remember, an adult hardtick quest high up on unmode grass or whatever. So, yeah, keep your yard mode. You're all set. And Chuck, you know what you need to do? Check my dogs. You need to go around your yard with, like, a piece of white cloth. Oh, yeah. And just drag it. And if you see a bunch of ticks on it, you got an infestation. If not, you tell Jordan that he's a liar. Yeah. That's scary. I've had a flea infestation, and that was awful. When I was in La. Dude, we were infested big time. And it was one of those deals where I couldn't find where they were coming from. So I went out in the backyard with bare feet one day and shorts on because I had a feeling they were coming from outside. And I just kind of walked around the yard really slowly looking down. And we had this shed in the back of our yard with about a two foot gap between the shed and the fence that no one ever goes. Obviously went around there. As soon as I walked around the corner, i. Looked down and I had about 200 fleas on my legs. Oh, yeah. And I freaked, obviously. And then I destroyed them with chemicals and fire. Yeah, nice. Fire just kind of puts the exclamation point on things, doesn't it? I can't imagine a tick infestation, though. That's like that's even worse. Yeah. No. I can't either, then. Fleas, but I don't think it looks like a flea infestation. I think if you have, like, five or six ticks on your white cloth, that's an infestation. I couldn't tell. I thought it might be, like, hundreds of ticks on your no, I think if you're dragging your cloth through your yard right, there shouldn't really be that many ticks at all. Yeah, there should be a chance that there's no ticks, but if there's some I know what you're talking about. The flees, and it is disconcerting because I've looked at my leg and seen that, too. Yeah, we have very similar backgrounds. Are you aware of that? What? Trashy, backyards and infestations? Chuck, Josh, you and I are going to come up with a Tshirt design that says, I listened to the tick episode, and we have to figure out a way that people can prove that they listen to this entire episode. Okay. And if they did, we need to come up with a T shirt because they deserve one for making it through this one with us. Yeah. This was sort of Scabies esque in the itch count. Scabies was way more interesting. I'm saying, like, they made it through it. Like, they are hardcore DavoSays. You know what I mean? Well, I thought this is good. Okay. If you want to learn more about Tics or get a visual of Tracy Wilson with her pants tucked into her sock, you just type tick into the handy search bar@houseofworks.com. And now it's time for a new segment, an occasional segment. Don't freak out. It's not like listener mail is going anywhere. We'll still do Facebook stuff, but every once in a while, we have to say thank you. So this is what we call so. Yes, Chuck, this is a new segment. Right. Every once in a while, we get stuff mailed to us, all sorts of awesome stuff, and it just piles up. I should say the thank yous pile up, and we just need to knock them out every once in a while. Yeah. We are very grateful for everything, right? Yeah. I would have called this Fan Appreciation or Fan thank you. Not administrative detail, but tomatoes. You weren't raised in a Skinner box, were you? Okay, Josh, we'll split these up here. We've had a lot of wait, what are we doing? We're doing the Thankies right? Yeah. Okay. We've had a lot of people send us things over the past what is this? Past six months or so? You want to start with stuff? Yes. Stuff. Yes. Because, like, ticks administrative detail thank you. Can be divided into two groups. Right. And even stuff can be divided into books. We got a lot of books we did from the authors themselves. Right. Including our buddy Ian Specter. Yes. Who created the Chuck Norris back generator. Right. And he just came out with his new book, chuck Norris Cannot Be Stopped. And he sent us copies of that. He's milking it. I was disheartened that he sent it to the tech stuff guys, too. I tried to talk him out of it. He's like, no, I'm too nice to pull him. I would. We also got how to Speak Pirate, a treasure chest of seafaring slang. By Jordy Telfer. And we got one called Revolutions for fun and profit by Ryan Chateauk. I have not read that one yet, but I'm very much looking forward to that. Absolutely. I'm also looking forward to Molecular Gastronomy, a book by Harvey Tess. And Harvey Test did not give us this book. But Liz from Little Bittersweetscom did. Remember? Yeah. Liddabit Suite.com. If you have two brain cells that you can muster up, go there and order any of the candy bars, but order the peanut butter and jelly candy bar and thank me later. I didn't have that one. It was so good. I had the King. It was peanut butter and banana. I had that one, too. What? And a small one? Yeah. Several candy bars. Didn't you? I had two. I didn't have several. She also makes this beer and nut caramel. That's really good. I didn't get any of that either. You got the popcorn, right? Yeah, I did. The popcorn was awesome. It had bacon fat in it and you could tell. Yes. It was gorgeous. I mean, it's seriously, like, handmade in New York City with, like, really nice ingredients. So if you see, like, $6 for a candy bar, just shut up and get it. Trust me, it's the best candy bar you'll ever have in your life. Yeah. So thanks, Liz, for all that stuff. Keep it coming. We also got a catcher's companion. The Hidden World of Holden Calfield by Sean McDaniel. And I just kind of browsed it. I haven't given it a sit down read yet, but Sean put together basically like an Annotated Catcher in the Rye. It's pretty amazing stuff. Absolutely. And I don't know, I'm pretty sure you could probably find most of these on Amazon. I don't know. Some of the search. Yeah, definitely. Some of it might be self published, but I think people should support self published books, too. Oh, great. And there was one more book. We mentioned it briefly once, but we didn't mention the whole thing. The Zombie Combat Manual a Guide to Fighting the Living Dead by Roger Ma. It is really awesome. And here's what you don't know about Chuck. I want to say thank you to Stephanie, who I went to high school with and was in children's theater with. We used a carpool there together. Sweet. Way back in the day. She and her fiance Steve. Listen, Steve turned her on to us. He heard us mention Sprayberry, and he was like, Wait a minute. Didn't you go to Spray Berry and made her listen? She's like, no way. Wow. Yeah. Fortunately for us, we got more than just a high. Steve makes hot sauces, and he sent a bottle of Big Smoke. And I'll give you half of it. Eventually, you need to use half of it. I'll be like, Here, I'm done with this. Yes. So thank you to Stephanie and Steve for that. And, hey, Stephanie, I hope it's going well. That's nice. Let's look at you on your birthday being kind. I know it feels dirty. So, those are the books and candy bars and things. We got a bunch of CDs from abandoned New Jersey called The Wag, and we want to thank them. Our best bud in the world, martin Van Nostrin. He's always sending his stuff, tons of stuff, like bacon based things. Wesley Willis CD. Yeah. All sorts of CDs. The Woodhouse Gang. Yeah. Wood Box Gang. Wood Box Gang. Would it say Woodhouse? Yes. Anyway, Ben, after a new sick puppy, we love you. Now it's time for postcards, eh? Yeah, we got a bunch of postcards. We got one from Vanessa in Japan. Todd from the Anne Frank house. Sorry about your umbrella there, Todd. And there's a small group of conspirators found deep within the bowels of the Brigham Young University library. Really? Thank you for listening. Interesting. I don't even know what that is. Janelle in traversity, Minnesota. Michigan. Michigan. Traverse. We want to say check out Shuttercow.com. Yes. Rocky and his girlfriend from Hawaii via Hurst Castle. Yes. Kate and Stewart, who we met at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn when we were there, they independently wrote letters to us on the same day. Isn't that weird? Yeah, but Case was way better. Why is that? Because Stewart spent his whole letter taking us to task over the traffic podcast, and Case was all like, I'm so glad we got the chance to meet you. You guys are awesome. And Stewart's like, hey, I hope you guys are doing well. It's nice to meet you. And here's everything that was wrong with the traffic podcast. So Case, later. Definitely one. Oh, and the fellows from New Belgian Brewery sent us some delicious Fat Tire ale. Yes. In the mail. So thank you to everybody who's ever sent us anything. If we forgot you, we apologize. You can shoot us an email, actually, and be like, you fat jerks. Or just send us what you sent us before again, right? Refresh our memory. If you want to send us something, you can get our mailing address by sending us an email. We don't expect anything, so if you just want to say hi, that is awesome in and of itself. You can correspond with us at stuffpodcast@howsteporks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetofworks.com. Want more housestuffworks? Check out our blog on the houseofworks.com homepage brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school's out, the sun is shining, the daylights longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing Poolsite, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgara and Georgia Hardstark, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it's. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | ||
a6d19524-5462-11e8-b449-532e6c381816 | Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/adidas-v-puma-a-sibling-rivalry | Join Josh and Chuck today as they go down the sport shoe rabbit hole, detailing the strange tail of the brothers who brought Puma and Adidas to the world. Sibling rivalry, Nazis, shoes - there's a lot to unpack here. | Join Josh and Chuck today as they go down the sport shoe rabbit hole, detailing the strange tail of the brothers who brought Puma and Adidas to the world. Sibling rivalry, Nazis, shoes - there's a lot to unpack here. | Thu, 29 Nov 2018 14:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2018, tm_mon=11, tm_mday=29, tm_hour=14, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=333, tm_isdst=0) | 39786873 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W, Chuck Bryant. There's Andrew over there, the guest producer. I'm wearing a DSL is. Chuck is wearing Puma. Andrew is wearing reebok. None of us are speaking to one another right now. Yeah, it's weird. Andrew was wearing white reebok hi tops with bronze pantyhose and orange dolphin running shorts, and he claims he doesn't work for Hooters part time. Oh, yes. I like that you didn't know that because that means you don't go into Hooters. No. I've seen pictures on TV. I had to go, actually. I've only been there once, and that was when I worked at that awful job with the chicken killers. And it was on a stupid work trip they made me go on, and that was, like, the only place in town. And all these yokels that I worked with were like, yeah, man, let's go to Hooters. And I went in there and I was just like, oh, my Lord. They were trapped in time. I've been there a couple of times, actually, when I was a younger man. It's the same. I imagine. It is, I'm sure. And I was there on my 21st birthday in Jacksonville because it was the only place open. It was like a Tuesday night or something, and I was like, this is not the best 21st birthday I'll ever have. Yeah. Hey, we don't want to yuck your yum if you work at Hooters or if you love going, there more power to you. Sure, why not, right? That's pretty awesome that you said that. You don't want to yuck anyone's yum. Yes. It's funny, I was thinking about a couple of weeks ago when it was like the Castanza moment, when you thought of a line after the moment when you were talking about how I was crazy for not liking Olives and I got onto you. I should have said, don't yum my yuck. It's funny you said that, because I was thinking about that later on, too. I thought that I should have said, well, actually, I'm not yucking your yum. I'm yucking your yuck, which is different. Think about it, man. Are you thinking about it? I think it's weird that we both thought about that moment afterward. I think so, too, because usually we just go back into our hyperbolic chambers and float for the next six days. It's a pretty great life we have. Pretty nice just soaking in our own urine. Don't you pee in your hyperbaric chamber? Oh, yeah, but I mean, that's how you're supposed to fill it up, right? Right. So, Chuck, obviously what we're talking about today is athletic gear, sports shoes in particular, and two of the most well known sports brands in the entire world, adidas and Puma. And some people might not know this, Chuck, but Adidas and Puma were founded by two brothers who spent many decades of their lives not speaking to one another. And some people might even know that they are rival brands founded by rival brothers. But I guarantee they don't know the full story behind one of the most bitter family rivalries of all time that gave us Adidas and Puma. And it is extraordinarily fascinating. There's Nazis, there's Run DMC, there's all this stuff all rolled into one. And it turns out that this is one of the better stories I've ever come across. That's right. And before we dive into that awesome story to head off emails, I know I said hyperbolic instead of hyperbaric. No such thing as a hyperbolic chamber. I guess it could be. It's a chamber that's like, I'm the biggest chamber ever, probably. So all right, so this is a great story, and I had heard bits and pieces of this over the years, but it is interesting that Nazis and Run DMC and feuding brothers all come together because, you know, my pumas I've been a puma guy, sure, for many years, even though I did have a pair of Adidas superstars at one point. But they're too flashy. No, I liked them, but white shoes aren't good on me. I get them too dirty too quick. Yeah. So now I just vary my pumas between the black and the black suede and sort of like the olive green suede. Usually, you know, Adidas makes non white shoes. You could try. Yeah, but those classic white superstars with the three blue stripes, those are the ones the shell toes. Yeah. Well, I mean, they have some other cool ones, too. Like gazelles are pretty cool. Like the flat bottom soccer shoe. Yeah. My brother was into I work as well for a while when I was a soccer poser, but my brother was into Stan Smith. Oh, yeah, those are cool, too. I've got some Stan Smiths. There, like, this blue mesh. Now that I think about it, if I have a loyalty to either one, it would be Adidas. But I don't consider myself, like Adidas loyal. Well, I'm a puma guy just because they look good on me and they're comfy. But I was also a low top Converse All Star guy for a while. And in high school, of course, in the preppy days, I was all about the tree torns. I never had tree ORNs it was a look. Oh, I know for sure. Comfy. I was right after Tree Torrents when I started getting the shoes kswiss were in. I never had any of those that are cool. And then what was the other shoe? Vans? There's a particular style of vans that I really still enjoy. The slipon ones with the black and white checks. No, those are cool, but I don't know if I can pull those off at 47. You could, but people will laugh at you behind your back. That's already happening. Yeah, I'll remember at some point. Okay, well, just shout it out. And plus, I just wanted to cover our basis by saying as many name brands as possible. Don't forget British nights. The BKS. Yup. So, Chuck? Yes. Let's start the story, shall we? Have to get in the way back machine for this one. Okay. And this is also full of urine. That was you, though. Let's let everybody know we're going to go back to the end of World War I in Germany, and we're going to go to a little town that I'm going to let you pronounce because I've been trying and I cannot do it. And I thought it was interesting that we're recording this now because we just acknowledged and recognized the 100 years removed from World War One, the end of World War I, and the beginning of the Spanish flu that killed like three times as many people right after it. That's another celebration. Right? So we're going back there. We're just going back 100 days, almost to the day. Yeah. And so the name of that town is Herzogenarok. Well, I could have done at least that good. Yeah. Herzogenarok. It's not exactly says that like that. Here, let's play this. Halson Olaf. That's how it said. Okay, so maybe we should just have that voice say, of course, but we're not going to. It turns out the locals just call the town Herzo. So that's all we'll call it. But it's a little tiny village in Bavaria. They can't even pronounce it. No, they're like, we're not even going to try, and we were born here. Don't be too hard on yourself, Josh, is what they're saying. So in Herzo, it's a little town in Bavaria, a little village. There's a river running through it significantly. Yes. And around 1918, one of the villagers who was born there, a guy named Adolf Dassler, takes a seat in his mother's laundry. His mother ran a laundry out of their house. And he starts cobbling athletic shoes, specifically track shoes, I think, to begin with. And he had a knack for it. He started making shoes that athletes actually wanted pretty early on, pretty much out of the gate. And he started doing so well so quickly that within a year or two, he asked his older brother, who is by far the more outgoing extrovert salesman type of the two brothers, his older brother Rudolph, to start selling his shoes, start kind of creating a business operation out of it. And I think within just a few years they had twelve employees and they founded a company called Sports Fabric Gabriel Dassler, which they called Ghetto for short. Yeah. So gabruda is for brother. So Gabrudadsler is the Dosler Brothers Shoe company. And people were like, wow, so I don't have to wear my high heel leather sport boot any longer on the pitch. I don't have to tie some sharp rocks to the bottom of my feet. So their nicknames, you'll probably hear us refer to them as Audi and Rudy Rudi. And if you kind of put your head to it. You can see where this is headed. This is exciting. So the laundry business wasn't going well. So like you said, little Audi started making these shoes and things started going great. And it turns out they made a pretty good team at first because they complimented one another in what they were good at. So Audi was creative and he was the brains, and Rudy was a little more extroverted, and he was a really good salesperson. Right. So they start to do a pretty good business. And if you're like, well, that's a weird thing to start doing as a younger man, to start making sports shoes. It turns out that Herzo is like a shoemaking town. It has a long tradition of shoemaking. In 1922, for example, their population was 3500, but they had 112 shoe makers. That's amazing. That's a high shoe maker to regular population ratio. So it's not the weirdest thing ever. But they're plotting along. They're making really high quality shoes, like, right out of the gate. Audi had, like I said, a talent for making high quality athletic shoes. And one of the first things they made were track shoe. One of these articles says, looks like a ballet slipper with some nails coming out of the front of it, the front bottom, the foresole. And it just changed everything. It was a genuinely great track shoe at the time. People who are running sprinters who are running track, they didn't have any traction when they were taking off. This gave them traction and just gave them an immediate leg up over the competition. And so the athletes really liked the shoes that they were putting out, and the company started to grow and grow and grow. And then I think the 1928 Olympics in Los Angeles is where they really debuted their shoes. And a German sprinter was wearing a pair of their track shoes, and all he won was a bronze medal. But he won a bronze medal wearing the Dazzler brothers shoes as a German sprinter. Exactly. So that should say it all. It does. So he was wearing these track spikes, and this helped him. This got him a little bit of notoriety. But it was really in 1936 in Berlin at that very famous Olympic Games, where a young athlete named Jesse Owens dominated and literally tore up the track wearing those gabridaesler track spikes with Hitler in the stands. And people are like, Those shoes are amazing. And Jesse Owens was like, it's kind of me. But yeah, sure, the shoes are great. I'm also a vastly superior athlete to the rest of these jumps out here. Yeah. So that was the Olympics that Jesse Owens famously finished in first place, won the gold and did another lap around the track, went up into the stands and slapped Hitler right in the face. Oh, man. Slapped his little stash right off that lip. So the fact that Jesse Owens was wearing these shoes immediately brought international attention to geta the Gabriel Dossier Company. So I saw one article that said had World War II not happened, this business would have just gone global immediately. And it started, too. But then when World War II broke out, and that was the Olympics, I think I said the 1928 Olympics. It was, I think, the 1932 Olympics that I talked about first. But the 1936 Olympics, within just a couple of years, the Nazis invaded Poland and were running Germany, and World War II kicked off in earnest. And the time for sports apparel kind of got derailed a little bit. Yeah. So just like in the United States and actually in countries all over the world, the war effort was it's not like they were just like, all right, we have a few companies that manufacture military needs for our military, and that's going to be good enough. It's like, no, we need to really co opt any manufacturing that we want to to go toward the war effort. And certainly Germany did that, along with the US. And kind of everyone else and everything from Hugo Boss to Lufthansa to these little troomakers in this small town in Bavaria. Yeah. The factories were co opted for the war effort, basically. And what the Dosler Brothers factory ended up making is something called the Ponzer shrek, which means the tank terror. And it was modeled after the American bazooka, which was one of the first shoulder mounted recoilless rocket launchers that had enough power to punch right through a tank and blow up everybody inside. They were nasty little buggers. And the Ponza shrek was the German version of the bazooka. And the German version of the bazooka was created in the Dosler Brothers shoe factory. Yeah. December 1943 is when they kind of made the full switch in. These little German ladies who were sewing shoes the week before were now manufacturing German bazookas. The good news is, by this time, because these things are really effective, actually, and had they been brought into the war sooner, things might have really changed. But thankfully, by this time, even though they were doing the job, it was too late. The tides had turned and the Allies were steaming toward victory. And even though they started pumping out these bazookas, it was sort of too little, too late. Yeah. Have you ever wondered about the name bazooka? Not until just now. Okay. Well, I did, and I was like, what does the bazooka mean? Apparently, there was an entertainer. I think he might have been vaudeville kind of a country act. Okay. Bazooka Joe. I can't remember his name. It doesn't matter. He created a musical instrument out of brass called a bazooka. And it was kind of like a trumpet and a trombone together. It was a weird little instrument, but he was popular enough, and the bazooka looked like his instrument enough that it became called the bazooka. This shoulder mounted rocket launcher. Interesting. I thought so, too. Sure, why not? But the point is that all of a sudden, the Germans, who had been totally helpless against the American tank divisions, were messing the American tank divisions up. And the source of their power was the Dosler Brothers shoe factory. And you mentioned there are seamstresses welding bazookas together. Also in their factory, there was forced labor of French POWs. Sure. So they had slaves and seamstresses working together to create bazookas to take out the American tank divisions or the Allied tank divisions, thanks to the companies that would eventually become Adidas and Puma. All right, that's a great set up. Thank you. That's only part one into what is a very interesting story. So we're going to take a little break and we'll come back and talk about what went wrong with these two brothers right after this. That's fine. All right. So we got to go back in time a little bit because we sped right up to World War II. It was just too interesting to wait to talk about any longer. But we need to go back to about 1933, because these brothers ended up fracturing in a big, big way. And there have been some legendary sibling rivalries through the years, but this is really one of the greats, and I believe even Rudy wrote, as an older man, the relation to my brother was ideal from 1924 to 1933. Then his young wife tried to interfere with business matters, although she with us 16 years, had no experience at all, and the warfare began. Yeah. So here's how the story goes, is that in 1933, OTT was indeed married to a 16 year old, which seems very creepy now, but back then it was not the strangest thing in the world. Slightly less creepy. Slightly less creepy. Well, it was a different time. Okay, so he was married to a 16 year old and tried to get involved in the business. Rudy was not happy about this. And they all live together. The two brothers and their wives all live together in the same townhouse, which is not a great recipe for success anyway. Right. You need to have your own place. So you can imagine that all the little bickering and snide remarks and just all the stuff that if you have two couples that don't really like and love each other, living together will accumulate. If you translate that to a business relationship, it's going to be hard on the business. And it was for sure. So there is apparently a series of just little things like that. But as far as the family legend goes. The real break happened during World War II when the Allies were bombing the village of Herzo. And Rudy and his wife made their way to the bunker. The bomb shelter. And shortly after that. Audi and his wife. I think her name was Kata they made their way into the bomb shelter and when they entered. He said. Oh. It looks like the bastards are here again. And Audi apparently went to his grave saying that he was referring to the Allied bombers, but Rudy took it that Audi was talking about Rudy and his wife. And apparently that was the final straw. Yeah, this was true evidence that things were really bad. If something as simple, possibly, as just a little misunderstanding of whether or not the bastards were the Allied bombing or you, my brother and my sister in law, things are pretty bad if this is what did it. Right. So World War II still going on, and at some point, Rudy gets called to go fight for the Nazis. He gets drafted. So Rudy has to go to war, and the whole time he's away. So this rift has already happened. So he's suspecting one, that his brother and his brother's wife plotted to get him drafted, and he can't get that idea out of his head. So much so that apparently multiple times he deserted his post to go home to make sure that he wasn't being ousted from the business he built with his brother. And then he gets arrested for desertion. And he's sure that his little brother ratted him out for desertion, which he may have. And so he's arrested, he's held for a while. And as he's making his way back after the war to Herzo, he gets picked up by the Allies for under suspicion of being a Gestapo agent. Yeah, he's sure again. There's his little brother Audi, who got him this time, landed in a POW camp that he stays in for a little while. And it turns out he was right. There is documentary evidence from an American officer who took the accusation down. And apparently it was Audi who went to the Americans and said, my brother is a Gestapo agent. You may want to arrest him. What is jerk. This is the level of stuff these brothers are doing to one another. And the rift just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. There's one other thing we have to say, because the younger wife, the 16 year old Kata, gets historically blamed for creating this rift, I think, in a lot of ways unfairly. Sure. She's also the one who saved the family business single handedly. Yeah. So in April 1945, the Americans march into Herzo. Those tanks pull up in front of that factory, and the soldiers, the American soldiers, are out there kind of going over what they should do. Should we destroy this building or not? This is the place where the ponds or shreks were made. Yeah. So Adi's wife, Kata comes out and she basically walks right up to these enemy soldiers and says, we only want to make shoes. We only desire to make shoes. And they're like, Why are you talking like Colonel Clinton? She said, Vialdo. Okay. And that's basically like she convinced them to spare the factory they did so. And not only that, they're the Air Force. The US. Air Force set up operations there at their air base and realized that they really like these shoes. Well, they found out that this was the company that made Jesse Owens famous track shoes. Yeah. And so they went off the charts. They started getting these huge orders for sports teams, american sports teams, because of this. So this is all going on. It's all starting while Rudy's off in a POW camp because his brother ratted him out. And the business all of a sudden is starting to turn international. Like you said. People around the world are taking notice of this, thanks to the American GIS who are coming back with this get a sportswear. And when Rudy comes back, it's done. His brothers ratted him out. There was the whole thing in the bomb shelter and the brothers split the company that they built together. They split Gebruder Dosler, and they go off and found their own companies. Yeah. 15 years after that bunker incident. So it took a long time to finally boil over. And in between, there was another war. They were not good Nazis, we should point out. They were members of the Nazi Party. And Rudy did get drafted. But like he said, he deserved his post a lot. And they really did just want to sell shoes. Right. He's like Dwight Schrute's uncle or grandfather who spent a lot of the war in Allied POW camp. That's right. So like you said, they split up the company. And we mentioned earlier that this river ran through the center of town. And I said, Significant. And it is significant because it literally divided the town. And they set up their business. It's not like one of them said, well, I'm going off to Berlin. Right. They just set up camp on opposite sides of that river. Adler said, I will name my company Adidas. Actually, at first they named it ADAS. Well, yeah, but everyone said, that stinks. Well, no, that was a different one. There was a children's footwear line already called Odysse. So he added the I and turned it into Adidas. Yeah. Rudy went with Ruda and everyone said that no one's going to buy a shoe named Ruda, especially in the United States. And he said, I don't understand. And I said, don't worry about it. So somehow he got Puma out of Ruda. Right. Which I don't get, but it's a name that's stuck. Yeah. And it works. Puma is definitely better than Ruda for sure. Oh, yeah. So these two go off and form directly competing companies that split from the same company that the brothers had founded together. And Adidas and Puma started making pretty good headway out of the gate. At first, Rudy had the sales team, had the marketing team, had the ability to move some product, but Oddie had the technical know how. The dedication to making high quality footwear that athletes, like professional athletes want to wear, and so he could get his shoes onto athletes who would wear them on the world stage. And eventually, I guess, his TAC won out over his brothers. And from a very early stage on, adidas has always led Puma at least as far as sales revenue goes. Yeah. And there were mistakes from both of them along the way, business wise. One of the big ones for Puma early on was that Rudolph got into a spat with a coach of the German national soccer team. And of course, all that did was open the door for his brother and Adidas to go in there and say, what about these shoes? Which is exactly what happened. And so at the World Cup, Germany wears Adidas with those signature stripes. And even though they were not favored at all, west Germany actually won against who? Hungary, I believe. Yes. And that was a huge deal on the international stage. It was like the Miracle on Ice on grass. You mean they were stoned? They were all stoned out of their gourds. The miracle on ice on grass that might have legs, my friend. I think it might, too. Trademark that. Well, I do officially right now, trademarked. I love it. So that was one mistake. Adidas would, of course, go on to make some mistakes later. I know that you sent that one article where they talked about how they said at one point that, yagging, no one's going to do that, so we're not going to make yoging shoes. Right. And aerobics, it's a flash in the pan. Sure. Who cares about physical fitness? So you mentioned Rebock earlier. It's hard for the young folk out there who are listening to know this, but there was a time when Reebok was the name in sports apparel. Yeah. In Rebox, this article says that they lost their way at some point, but the way that Rebock kind of took the lead for a little while was saying, no, we'll get into jogging, we'll get into aerobic, and we'll make this stuff at a time when Adidas and Puma were ignoring it. One of the other mistakes that both Adidas and Puma made was that they were so focused on beating one another, they just completely dropped the ball, as it were, on the rise of Nike. And Nike was able to take over, and apparently right out of the gate. And since then, Nike has always been the leader in sports apparel. Yeah. And Adidas is two and Puma is three, right? Yeah. Amazing. So you have an option these days. You can buy your sports apparel from a company that's been known to use child labor, or company that used forced French labor under the auspices of the Nazi Party in World War II. Hooray. Let's take a break. Yeah, we'll take a break, and we'll talk about how this rift still oddly carries over in that town today and run DMC. Alright, so back in the day, when they first split off this company, that river is running through this town, it was a really big deal. It wasn't just a sibling rivalry, it became a town wide rivalry in that you worked for one company or the other as a family, like husband and wife didn't work, they didn't split up. And one worked at Puma and one worked at Adidas. Plus, I mean, if you fell in love with somebody from a family across the river, that was, sorry, you got a Romeo and Juliet thing going on, that ain't going to work out. Is that crazy? It is. And I was glad that one of the local historians who was interviewed for one of these articles said it wasn't like bloody or anything, like you and lost their lives over this. It was just if you worked for Puma, you stayed on the Puma side of the river. If you worked for Adidas, you stayed on the Adidas side of the river and each group kept to themselves. That was all. Yeah. And it still carries over to this day some of those recent interviews that we both read. Certainly now it's a little more good natured ribbing, but they say when you walk around this town, walk through a playground and you will see kids kitted out in all Adidas or all Puma. And this is carried down from generations where they were Adidas or Puma families and it was a really big deal and still remains so to this day. Such that the mayor who actually came from a Puma family oh, yeah, but to be mayor you can't, you got to be a politician. Sure. So he will wear to some events, casual events, puma gear and sometimes Adidas gear. Eventually, in 2009, they had a friendly soccer match between the official Puma sponsor team and Adidas team. And he wore one Puma shoe and one Adidas shoe just to remain neutral, I guess. And to look like a total jackass, probably. So then it showed him rubbing like his Adidas foot. Later on they called him on camera. So, like you said, there was a soccer game that was played between Adidas and Puma, kind of a reconciliation thing on International Peace Day back in, I think, 2009. Yeah, that happened. Think about this. The Rudy and Audi Dosler died in the years of each other. This was 2009 before the company finally kind of had this reconciliation game. And yeah, today still, it's like you'll gently make fun of somebody wearing Adidas if you're a Puma family or whatever. But while the brothers were alive, you just steered clear of everybody who was on the other side. So much so that Herzo was known as the Town of the Lowered Gaze. Because if you came upon somebody on the street, you would look at their shoes to see what shoes they were wearing before you decide whether you're going to talk to. Them. That's so funny. It was. That established these brothers hatred and rivalry of one another. And they didn't speak for decades, spread out into the town that was divided by this river. And the town itself took sides because of this rift between these brothers. That all started supposedly in this bomb shelter during World War II. Yeah. And the mayor, Hacker, his first name is German. Could that be right? The journalist is really lazy. And didn't they're just like he's a German, we're going to call him that. I wonder if he pronounces it German. That's what I'm saying. Or Herman. Because they don't say Germany over there anyway. Yeah, they say Deutschland. But would it be Herman? No. I guess they spell the Herriman's with an H. Yes, I think it would be Mayor German Hakka. Right? Oh yeah. There is nature. German Haki saka who's on grass. But he says if someone comes in through the door, to this day your gay still wanders to their shoes. It's just in the DNA of those people that this athletic care is so important. It's so strange. Such a cool weird story. It is a great story of sibling rivalry and bitterness and hatred. And like you said, they didn't speak for decades. Apparently much later in life. There were a couple of times when they were rumored to have spoken. Once I think they ran into each other at an airport. Once they saw each other at a hotel. And I believe on the deathbed which one tried to get in touch with the other Rudy. Rudy put out the call, said I would like to see my brother Audi one more time. And Audi went. No, thanks, I'm good. Can you believe it? Yeah, man, that's tough. So they died. The family sold the business in the late eighty s and they got bought by corporate conglomerates. Sure. Ironically, Puma now owns Reebok and Gucci owns Puma. Adidas is still just Adidas, but again, it's owned by like a mega conglomerate and they've just gone enormous and make billions of dollars a year. So the families aren't necessarily involved. But one family member still works in the business. His name is Frank Dosler. I believe he was Rudy's grandson. And he used to work at Puma. He was pretty high up in Puma. Now he works as the head of the legal department for Adidas. Man, it's a pretty good indication of how much this cold war is kind of thawed between the two companies. Quite a bit. Because the people who are running it have no skin in the game. They don't care anymore. Yeah. Or he's an attorney and he would just have to the most money. Right. He's like, let me suck your blood. So we have a fun little post script on this. I know we've been talking about Run DMC and again, you young. It might be second nature now to associate athletic gear and hip hop and rap music and culture. But back in the early 1980s, that was not the case until Run DMC came along. No. Your rappers probably dressed like a gauntlet king or maybe like the New York Dolls. Yeah. Or just like I mean, sometimes I feel like I've seen just, like, denim jackets and just sort of like just sort of street wear, which is the unhappiest thing I've ever said. It was pretty unhappy. I didn't want to say anything, but I'm glad. Street rare so play clothes. So Run DMC changed everything when they released a single called My Adidas. Yeah. And I saw elsewhere that they released a single, My Adidas, kind of in retaliation to my song, a song called Felon Shoes. So if you ever noticed that Run DMC wore their Adidas without laces with the tongues popped out, I noticed that was supposedly because that's how people in prison had to wear their shoes because they weren't allowed to have shoelaces. And they were kind of saying, like, we're down with all of our buddies in prison. Interesting. So the song Fell in Shoes basically was making fun of that and basically teaching kids not to emulate prisoners. And Run DMC took issue with that. And they ended up releasing My Adidas, the song on raisining hell. In raising hell yes. Which I remember my family was on a busted Disney World once, I think, and the windows were foggy, and I was so into Run DMC, I just wrote Raisin Hell in the Fog on the window. People on the bus thought that was really hilarious. That is a great story. So I was into My Adidas, too, because of Run DMC, but it wasn't just me. Apparently, if you went to a Run DMC show on the Raisin Hill Tour or the Together Forever Tour in when they sang My Adidas, everybody would take off their shoes and hold their Adidas in the air. Yeah. That's how big of an impact the song had. Yeah. And in 1986, a senior employee of Adidas named Angelo Anastasio went to that tour at Madison Square Garden, saw this happen with the Adidas sneakers, and was like, hold on a minute. Wait just a second. We could have something here. Ran back to the headquarters, and within just a few days, they signed them to a million dollar endorsement deal. And that was like a sea change forward for hip hop groups getting money in all sorts of ways. Yeah. And apparently made Adidas sales just go through the roof. Oh, yeah. And it's like that began the marriage of like, I'm going to put out a record, I'm going to get a shoe deal, I might get a vodka sponsor, I'll get money flowing in from all kinds of directions. And Run DMC started it all vodka font, so that's hilarious. Sure. I feel like I've seen that now. Oh, yeah, you totally have. Like P. Diddy and Sarak vodka, I think. Yeah. Look, it works. I associate P. Diddy and Sarak vodka. Andrew is nodding. Correct. Awesome. Thanks, Andrew. Jerry would have been like, what? My miso is getting cold. Right? You guys, hurry up. We will. Hurry up. Ghost of Jerry. If you want to know anything else about adidas and puma, well, just go start reading up more. There's actually a book by a woman named Barbara Smith called Sneaker Wars, appropriately all about the rift between adidas and puma. So if you want to know more about it, that's a pretty good place to start. And since I said that, it's time for listener mail. Yeah, I'm going to call this sponges. Okay. Hey, guys. I was listening to Pando and I was excited. You all mentioned glass sponges, which are thought to be the oldest animals on earth. I am a PhD student at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in San Diego and I study marine sponges because they make all sorts of unique molecules that can be used as new medicines. I think sponges are the coolest animals on earth, and I'd love to share some of my favorite sponge fun facts. You ready? Yes. Not only are sponges thought to be the oldest living single living animals on earth, but some evolutionary biologists even think sponges were the first animals to ever evolve. In other words, our last common animal ancestor could very well have been a sponge. That's so cool. Did you know the first antiviral drug approved by the FDA was developed from a molecule and a C sponge? I didn't until just now. As a PhD student, I collect and study sponges because they are known to produce thousands of bioactive molecules, many of which have medicinal potential. I think it's pretty incredible that the ocean may hold the cure to some of the most devastating human diseases. And I hope my work might inspire people to protect the world's oceans and the valuable resources within them. That's awesome. Heck, yeah. Thanks for all the hard work you guys put into the show. Y'all have kept me company on many long night in the lab with my sponges. That's awesome. It makes me want to go chew on a sponge and see what happens. That's right. That's from Kayla Wilson from San Diego. Thanks a lot, Kayla. Thanks for the work you're doing, too. Thank you for saving humanity from grave diseases. Yeah. We'll look into these sponges, as you call them. If you want us to look into anything that we put in quotes, well, we want to know about it. You can go on to our website, stuffysheanow.com. Follow us on our social links there you can get in touch with us. You can also send us a good old fashioned email. Wrap it up, spank that thing on the bottom and send it off to stuffpodcast@howstepwks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseopeworks.com. Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school's out, the sun's shining, the daylights longer. And best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing pool Site tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgueref and Georgia Hardstark, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early in Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | |
42ed146c-53a3-11e8-bdec-d71d4c78ed53 | Why Postal Employees Go Postal | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/why-postal-employees-go-postal | 1993 was known as the peak of a disturbing trend in America: post office shootings, carried out by postal workers. A stunned country looked for answers and turned up a toxic workplace that seemed to be driving some workers past their breaking point. | 1993 was known as the peak of a disturbing trend in America: post office shootings, carried out by postal workers. A stunned country looked for answers and turned up a toxic workplace that seemed to be driving some workers past their breaking point. | Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2020, tm_mon=1, tm_mday=21, tm_hour=10, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=21, tm_isdst=0) | 46517267 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff. You should know a production of Iheartradios how stuff works. Hey, and welcome to this podcast. Oh, boy, it's gonna be a long year. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. There's Jerry over there. And this is stuff you should know. What do you mean, long year? The year is always the same length. I almost forgot the word podcast in the intro. That's an indicator. Is going to be a long year. We're only going to do this objectively. We're only going to do this 100 more times. 102. Yes. But we just did 103, so 100 more. 101 more. I think we do 104 a year. Do we, Jerry? Yeah, because it's 52 weeks times. 204. That's what I meant. So we've done one. I was just joking, by the way, when I said Jerry. 102 more. That's what I'm saying. Long year, buddy. Jerry Scott, her principal shoes. She does. Josh just made Jerry walk up and down the hall so I could hear the clip clop of her wooden heel. And it definitely made me like I had a little PTSD of like, oh, boy, someone's coming after us. It sounded like the principal was coming. And we were in the office. We were smoking in the boys room, which I never did. I never did either, man. Even when I was a high school smoker, I was like, Are you out of your mind? Smoking in the lobby? I escaped campus to smoke or whatever. Was there a smoking section that you're smoking? No, I wasn't that what am I, like, your age? I don't think there was by the time I got there, either. But I definitely remember maybe the first year or so. But I definitely remember when my sister was at my high school. She's six years older. There was a smoking area by the dumpster. That's where they had it roped off for students. Can smoke. Crazy. It's awesome. They're like, hey, we know it's a long day. If you need to go light up, just do it over here. Yeah, that's the official place if you need to go cool it up. Cool, yeah. Or go feel alive with pleasure. Just Newport. Yeah, I think so. I did smoke on a plane a couple of times. I was on one flight that I remember that had smoking. An international flight. It's crazy. Yeah. There's no barrier, no partition, no nothing. It's just these are the rows that you can sit in and smoke, which is all based. The whole plan is a smoking section at that point. It is crazy. It's always funny when I see movies where people are smoking on buses in planes and restaurants, and it's really different time, different day, different era. Speaking of a different time, I guess it qualifies as a different time. Yeah. I think today, Chuck, that we should talk about the era when people went postal. That's right. And I'm looking at something up relevant, by the way, I'm not just checking my email right now. Oh, well, I'll tap dance for us then. Well, I was just curious if there was a band called Going Postal. Not if, but how many there were. Sure. And I just typed in Going Postal Band. And I see quite a few Facebook pages called Going Postal Band. Twitter accounts. Yeah, postal. Some with an end, with a little apostrophe. Going Postal. Sure. Those are the little more loosey goosey, like Jimmy Buffett style, like yacht Rocky. Yeah. Of course, people would take something horrific like workplace shootings and turn it into a band name. Dude, not only a band name, there's a franchise of mail centers, like where you get your mail center called Going Postal. Swear to God. Really? Nationwide franchise. Interesting. Any article that you read about the post office, it will be called like Going Postal. It's completely been co opted and removed from its context, so much so that I would guess our younger listeners aren't fully aware of where that whole thing comes from. Yeah. And I think not that it's cool and acceptable. But I think the reason it's even allowed to happen to name things this now is because we are now in an era where that term. As we're learning this podcast and we've talked about the golden age of Skyjacking and the golden age of this and that there was a weird golden age of postal workers shooting up their workplaces. Yeah. And it hasn't happened that much since then. That's what I think has allowed people to be like, hey, good band name, huh? Because no one would call a band school shooter now. No, because that's the active horrific thing going on. But it's the same thing. And you could make a really good argument or case that it grew out of the post office shooting. Sure. These were the first workplace mass shootings that America was exposed to. And I would put to you, not that people don't shoot up post offices any longer, but that when it does happen, it is no longer even remotely as newsworthy as it once was. Because at the beginning, we didn't understand what the heck was going on. Now we understand firsthand, all of us, anybody who has a job in America now understands what's going on. And it's also spread from beyond the post office into offices around the country, businesses around the country, and even into schools. Some people you name it. Yeah. Some people make the argument that Neoliberalism is to blame and I'm okay with that. And we'll explore that more later. Yeah, I know Neoliberalism. Would you like to try new things in 2020? It was good. Did you practice your delivery or all right, well done. I nailed it, I think. I think so too. I know that that podcast is looming on Neoliberalism. It's long been on your list, so just a matter of getting around to it. I don't know how will be maybe 2021 maybe. How about five years from now? Sure. All right. Within the next five years, let's say that if we are still blessed enough to be doing this job. You keep saying that because apparently every time you do, ten years passes, and everybody's like, can you believe that you even said that? So just keep saying that because I want to keep doing this. I think it's kind of neat to think about, like, having a 20 plus year partnership. Yeah. Like, there might be a podcast in hall of Fame one day. We can go visit it. Yeah, exactly. Look at Mark Marin and Karen and Georgia. Yeah. Maybe they'll give us a senior discount. All right, so we should talk about and did you write this one? Actually, no. Dave Ruse did. Oh, man. He did a great job. Yeah, he did. And the way he put together the story, I think works well. Are we going to follow this format? Why not? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's right. That's my mantra in 2020. And how long are you going to do that? It's like January. I got to do it all this month. So he starts off with a story of a man named Patrick Henry Cheryl, 44 year old man in Oklahoma City. He is known in his neighborhood as Crazy Pat. He was a big dude. He was a loner. He ticked a lot of boxes when it comes to mass shootings, he was basically like Pile from Full Metal Jacket when he was in London. Sounds like. Yeah. He was a loner. He had been caught as a Peeping Tom. He hurt animals. He would tie cats and dogs to fences with baling wire. Not nice. Not nice at all. He was shy. He was awkward. Didn't have a lot of friends. He joined the Marine Corps, which is where he learned how to shoot cube. Private pile once again. Right. And then after the Marines, he moved in with his mom, and when she died in 1978, he was alone with his ham radio. Don't want to throw any shade at ham radio at the hams out there, because remember we found out in our episode on ham radio that they are the most courteous that's right. Like civic minded people around. Yeah. So this is a bad apple. Right. He doesn't exemplify the ham radio community, and I didn't even want to mention that. But the idea of him alone with his ham radio bears mentioning it. You can't obfuscate the truth, Chuck. You just got to bring it out, address it, and then keep going. That's the mantra in 2020. In 84, he enlisted in the National Guard of Oklahoma. And in 1985, he started work as you know what, a postal carrier in Edmond, Oklahoma. Right. So he, by all accounts was a I don't know if disturbed is the right word, but maybe it is certainly a less balanced individual than probably the average person for sure. So when he was told that he was going to be fired if he didn't shape up, he wasn't super great at his job. No, he wasn't. According to his supervisors, he would deliver mail, the wrong address, he would be late to work a lot, and he was given a notice like, you're going to be fired if you don't start doing what we want you to. That's right. The next day he showed up to work and without saying a word. This is what makes this one so creepy. He went to his supervisor, he went to find the postmaster, and he shot them without saying a word. And he started moving around his workplace at this Edmond, Oklahoma post office and within 15 minutes had killed 15 people, including himself. Yeah. Side note, one of those people was the grandson of Notre Dame football coach Newt Rockney. People were locking themselves in vaults. They survived. So he didn't kill everyone in the office. Which you might be asking, why does the post office have a vault? Stamps. Yeah. They really care about those stamps. They do. Valuable. They are. Go ahead. People hiding in offices and under their desks. And by the time the SWAT team gets there, they find him dead at his desk. He went to his desk and killed himself. Right. So 15 minutes. Killed 15 people, including himself, and did it without saying a word? From what all people are saying, yes. And this was one of the bloodiest events in American history, mass shootings at the time. There were a couple before this, but this was pretty early on in mass shootings. Yeah. America had not really been fully acquainted with mass shootings yet. They were no so rare. So rare that they were huge stories. And they also seemed like total anomalies. Not the very beginnings of a pattern that was starting to emerge. That's not what people thought of these things at the time. If you go back and watch Dan Rather reporting on this, he can't make heads or tails of it. It's just the most senseless thing. That's what they use, senseless, nonsensical insensible. Like they just couldn't understand it. Yeah. The one, of course, the famous 66 clock tower sniper at the University of Texas. Have you ever seen a documentary on that? No. It's done in, like, the animation. We run it through the animation software. Like in Waking Life. Wow. Somehow it makes it even more disturbing. I have not seen that. But I'm going to see it because this stuff fascinates me. The 84 one, I don't know if we should ever cover that one. I don't know either. The one at McDonald's in California was just horrific. The difference between that one and most of these take place over it always seems like it's like six minutes, ten minutes, twelve minutes. The one at the McDonald's was 77 minutes of just bloodshed and shooting. It was awful. But they were still anomalies. They were anomalies. And this was the first one that took place in an office. The New York Daily News said Cheryl put a new wrinkle to this kind of violence. He brought it into the office. Right. So he was not the first postal carrier to come to his workplace and shoot up the place. No. Right. He targeted the back office. But there have been a couple before I saw, even going back into the 70s where postal workers had come to work and shot the place up. Usually targeting a supervisor. Yes. And it was never this many people, I think was one of the big differences. That's a huge difference. Yeah. The one in South Carolina, 83, I think was just one person killed with a twelve gauge. The postmaster barricaded himself in a storage room, ironically of a convenience store. You'll see why later. So just put a pin in that. But was actually killed in the convenience store across the street. Yeah. And actually it wasn't just him. There were other people barricaded in that convenience store storage room with him. But he was the only one he shot. And that's a pattern that started to emerge. The more people started looking into these things, the more they were like a lot of these are not random. These guys let people live that they could have easily killed. And they went out of their way to find people who they did kill or tried to kill. And a lot of times it would be their supervisor or the postmaster, somebody who was in charge of bossing them around or possibly a coworker who had gotten a promotion instead of them. Yeah. That happened specifically in one case. And another guy was stalking a coworker and he came to work and I think he didn't end up killing her. Is that right? Right. No. He killed a male employee instead. So by the time this 1086 Edmunds, Oklahoma. A lot of people will point to that. It's like that's not the first postal shooting. Right. This is the one that really started to catch everybody's attention. Yeah. From 86 to 99, there were 15 different incidences or incidents. Which you are right, by the way. I know, but it's just a mouthful that involves current or former postal workers killing coworkers. 34 people over a 13 year period, which included that 14 in Oklahoma. Yeah. A lot of people point to 1993 as the peak of the going postal era. Not even necessarily because of all the bloodshed that year. There were some in 93, but more just the way that it leached into the cultural consciousness by that time. I think 93 was when it first appeared in print too. Right. 93 was when it appeared in print in the St. Petersburg, Florida Times. And ironically, they were talking about a symposium on workplace violence that was sponsored by the United States Postal Service. And the article says, which has seen the US postal service has seen so many outbursts that in some circles, excessive stress is known as going postal. This is 93. That same year, seinfeld, I think they debuted Newman as a character, and they basically said he's a postal worker and referenced postal workers going crazy. So we do the scene. Sure. Who would you like to be? I'll be Newman. Oh, okay. Who are you? I got to be George, then. Okay. I mean, you had to tell the people. That's what I mean. I see. Yeah. I thought you were presenting me with a fake choice now. This is George. Let me ask you something. What do you do for a living? Newman, that's my George. I'm a United States Postal worker. Aren't those the guys that always go crazy and come back with a gun and shoot everybody? Sometimes? Nice. I remember that scene. So do I. Went and looked at it. There's actually more to it. Yeah. They asked him why, and Newman actually explains it, and there's actually a lot of water to his explanation. It'll turn out he says, oh, the mail never stops. The mail never stops. Right. It's always coming. And then it's Publishers Clearing House week or something like that. They have to snap him out of this tirade that he goes on. But it's actually supposedly part of what was responsible for this phenomenon, the ceaseless pressure to constantly move the mail as fast as possible. I've been watching Seinfeld a lot lately. Yeah. What do you think? It's great. It holds up pretty well, huh? Holds up pretty well, yeah. And it's funny to hear Larry David, because this was before I knew he created Seinfeld, but it was before Curb, so I didn't know what he looked like or sounded like. Right. And he uses his voice a lot, like he's the voice of Steinbrenner. Steinbrenner, sure. And there's a couple of other things, like they'll just be a random off screen line, and it's Larry David. And now watching it, it just cracks me up. Great. But, yeah, it holds it pretty well. Obviously, some of it we're in different times now. Some of it's kind of like untoward, but not too bad. Okay, I'll just say that. Yes, it was the 90s. No, I know. It's a different era. Different era. And that was even the emergence of the PC era. But compared to today, you can't see that kind of stuff. Should we take a break or you got I got one more cultural reference. There was a Simpsons, and I don't know what year it came out, but I'll bet it was around 93, where Flanders and Homer become like best friends, because Flanders takes Homer to a football game, and Flanders learns that he can't stand Homer and doesn't like to be around him. And he has a dream where he climbs a clock tower with a gun and start shooting at everybody. It's like, there's Homer. There's another Homer. There's Homer. And one of the people he shoots at is a postal carrier who drops his mailbag and produces like, an assault rifle and starts shooting back. And it's just the most casual thing that requires zero explanation whatsoever, because by this time, everyone knew going postal mail carriers, they're not just like some friendly guy who gets chased off by a dog every once, and that's the worst thing that happens. This guy is like, on the verge of cracking and killing everybody, and he comes to my house every day like, what is going on? And this is 1993 when that kind of started to really rise to the surface. That question. Yeah. And like you hinted at, I'm glad you picked this because as it turns out, there is something to it. It wasn't just coincidence. And we'll talk a little bit more about that in other cases right after this. All right, so like we said, most of these killings occurred roughly over 86 to about 97, but they date back to 83 in as late as 2006. Another big famous one was Thomas McElvane. He was in Michigan and Royal Oak, Michigan, just above Detroit. Yeah. This guy was a martial arts enthusiast, and he was in the Marine Corps as well. And he was discharged dishonorably for running over a car with a tank. Okay. I was watching I read that as cat, by the way, the first three times I read this running over a cat with the tag. Yeah. And I was like, oh, my God. Yeah, but it was a car. I'm glad they discharged him. Not as bad. No. Unless there was a cat in the car. Tunes is new about going postal. So there's a documentary out there called Murder by Proxy how America went Postal. And they go to great lengths to basically say thomas McElvane was not totally off his rocker like he was considered by his coworkers. Still today, people who were there when he came and shot up the place, victims of his shooting, still some of them will say, I don't condone what he did, but I totally understand it. Right. And when he's treatment yes, because he was treated so poorly by the management and so aggressively poorly and hostile that they basically said, like, this is just a powder keg waiting to happen. And when they heard that this was going on, they didn't know who it was. They said, we didn't just think it was Tom McElvaine. Right. They said, it could have been any one of us because this was so toxic there. So, yes, it's easy to characterize them as a wing nut because he shot up his post office and killed a bunch of people. But there are other people who were there who say that's not a full picture of who he was. Yeah, I mean, if there is a situation where there is a workplace shooting and 100% of the people don't go, oh, well, it was this guy, then it might bear looking into the workplace environment again, not condoning in any way. Yeah. But it's just interesting to think about. And once we see the reports that came out later, like I said, there is some weight to some of this stuff. Yeah. 93 McElvane, I guess we should say, in six minutes. Killed four people, wounded four others. Killed himself. He let off a 100 rounds of shells. Yeah. In six minutes. I can't imagine what that must have been like. Dude. That McDonald's guy had an Uzi. I know there are very few people that I hate, but I hate that man. I hate him. He was a despicable human being. Yeah. And I remember this, actually. There were two post office shootings on the same day in 93. I remember I was in college at the time, and it was in the middle of the going postal era, all the headlines. And I remember two of them happened on the same day. And it was almost I mean, it was horrific, but it was almost like this weird, like you got to be kidding me. Yeah, exactly. And this was back pre widespread internet even. And it was still like a big deal on campus. Everyone talking about it. Sure. Yeah. I can imagine because I think it confirmed this general suspicion that hadn't been confirmed officially that there's something going on and there's something to this going postal thing. Yeah. And one of them was not a mail carrier, and one of them was a mechanic, and another that was passed over for a promotion killed two people, wounded two others. Yes. His name is Larry Jason, and this is the one who killed the woman who got his job. No, he went after the woman. Oh, no, you're right. I'm sorry. I think he wounded her. I don't know if he killed her. Oh, yeah. Wounded two people. Yeah. Including supervisor and the woman. He killed two people and then wounded two others. And then the other guy was Mark Hilbern in California. He killed his mother in her home before going to the post office. And he's the one that was looking for a woman that he was stalking. She wasn't there, so he killed someone else. Right. That's actually kind of an atypical case that you could make. A case doesn't necessarily qualify as going postal because he wasn't disgruntled by being mistreated or whatever. Right. It was a stalking thing, which is bad enough. Workplace homicide involving stocking is horrible. As far as going postal, it probably doesn't actually qualify. Yeah. And then 2006, it was a pretty interesting one because mass shootings very rarely are at the hands of a woman. But Jennifer San Marcos in Goleda, California, which is just outside Santa Barbara, and this was in 2006, she killed how many people here? Six, I believe. She killed six coworkers. And notably all six of them were people of color. Yeah. This is in 2006, she was a very disturbed individual that had put out a lot of signs to her employers, including having to be carted away, literally in a mail cart in handcuffs from the postal sorting facility she worked at and committed for 72 hours involuntarily. And she came back years later and killed six people on a rampage. She was known to be extraordinarily racist and just spout just, like, racist stuff and severely mentally ill right to herself. Yeah. So, yeah, she basically raised a lot of red flags, and I guess they let her go, and then she surprised everybody by coming back years later. Yeah. And side note, she applied for a permit at one point in her life to publish a newspaper called the Racist Times. And I guess they were like, no. Well, she applied for a business license to start a company to publish that, and I guess it was rightfully denied. I don't know. Can you, as a local government, say free speech? I would think so, especially to local governments. But maybe she just didn't have notary or something in 2005. Yeah. Who knows? Yes. By the way, I'm going to apply. One of my goals is to be a notary. Oh, really? I heard Nick Thune became one. Oh, really? Yeah. That's a very Nicky thing to do. He said, Everything I read in 2020 is going to get a receipt, signs, newspapers, magazines, receipts. So I guess he's going to notarize everything. Yeah. I got something notarized the other day, and then I don't think you can notarize your own stuff. Or can you? It seems unethical. Yeah. So it's not like I want to do it, because, first of all, I don't need notaries that much. It's not, like, to save time. But I just thought, what an interesting, weird kind of fun thing. Chuck Bryant podcaster, notary public. I think you should get that wrapped around your minivan. Step one is getting a minivan. This is your list for 2020. Get a minivan, become an odori. Get a rap saying as much on your minivan. Have you seen that SUV here on the parking deck? The Kim Brothers karate that's wrapped it's great. Because the whole side of it is this guy getting a stomach kick, and he's just, like, in silhouette. A photo or no, it's a full on photo. Like, the size of the whole back seat door. Nice. And advertising. Kim brothers. Check that out. Very awesome. It worked for them. It's pretty good. The rap worked. They're like, that was $400 well spent. And by the way, I wouldn't charge for my notary services either. The whole it's not like, to make extra. It's not a side hustle. Okay. But the thing is, like, people don't value stuff that they get for free. My notary did it for free, okay? She even came into work early to do it, and I was like, what? Oh, she said, nothing. I went, no, seriously? And she said, I'm running for judge. She handed me a thing. She said, Just vote for me. Okay, so that's not free. I was like, that's illegal. That's quid pro quo. Quid pro quo? You don't even know what that means. Yes, it's Spanish, right? My daughter was watching she Frozen in Spanish the other day and I went to change it. She went, no, I want to leave it in Spanish. She said and then she came out going I was like, what are you doing? She said I'm speaking Spanish. So was she speaking Spanish and you just didn't understand? Or was it gibberish? It was gibberish, but I said, you know who speaks Spanish? I said, Jerry's daughter. She went, really? I said, yeah. And so is she going to learn Spanish now to speak to Jerry's daughter? At some point she's going to, I don't know when, but I'm going to get her going. You know what I want to do? I want to go on some archeological trip to the Middle East and then we'll overhear some scholar speaking Aramaic and you'll realize that that's what was saying after she watched Frozen Two. Yeah, right. Just like in what was the movie? And not only is it Aramaic, but it's like the location of Jimmy Hoffa's body. Right. Aramaic. Or like the Holy Grail. What was the exorcist? Oh sure, yeah. Or she's maybe like some ancient tongue. Right. Should we take a break? We're really off the road. We should have taken a break like seven minutes ago. Alright, we're going to take a break and we're going to go. It's actually a good spot because we're going to talk about whether or not there was something to going postal. Credit. Let's get serious again, because you would think that after these sort of a series of shootings over a period of about a decade, even though the final one was in 2006, it was a bit of an outlier that there would be big investigations into what's going on at the US. Postal Service. And did that happen? There was, but it was ill conceived. Yeah. Let's talk about it. Okay. So by this time when people are saying like going postal, it's a thing, your postal carrier is going to snap and shoot up your whole family or whatever, the Postal Service realizes it has a PR problem on its hands. Exactly. So they hire a former Secretary of Health and Human Services named Joseph Californo Jr. And he leads a commission, he chairs the commission to look into this going postal thing and to the great relief and $4 million payment of the Postal Service. You mean the US. Taxpayer, right, yeah. California and his group come back and say going postal is a myth. Yeah. And this was after a report by the General Accounting Office that did their own investigation and report. They actually issued six reports on poor labor management relations. That's just the gao alone. Yeah. The toxic. Work environment there. And so the US. Postal Service, via our money, like you said, threw down $4 million to try and clean that report up. Right. So the California Report is what it's called. It was pretty clever in its goals and execution. Yeah, for sure. It basically said, we're going to look at the CDC stats about workplace deaths and workplace homicides in particular, and we're going to just compare stuff statistically. And they did. And they found that not only is it not particularly dangerous to work at the post office, but that some other professions, like working as a convenience store clerk. That was the irony that I said to put a pin in. Right. Or working as a taxi driver sure is far, far riskier as far as your chances of being killed in a homicide goes. Yeah. 150 times likelier you're a taxi driver than a postal worker. Eight times as much if you're a retail worker. And basically most of those are convenience store clerks. Like killed during a robbery. Yeah, exactly. Or watch a postmaster get killed in your supply room. That's right. Either way, not a good day at work. I wonder which one that qualified for for the CDC because it was in a convenience store, but it was a Postal Service employee. I think it would be reflexive, meaning it would be it would have to be at your workplace. Okay. I think it would qualify as having been both maybe. Yeah. At that point, I think he's like, Fine. Both. This is just too convoluted. Yeah. I picture, like, a meeting with a bunch of people sitting around smoking cigarettes, kind of debating this one. Right. And then one guy just sticking a big bite of a club sandwiches saying, just throw it in. Both right. They're like, this is after the Newt Gingrich Bob Bar era. So we're not even allowed to use the word gun in the report. We have to just say homicide by bang bang or something. Whoa. So the California Report comes out, and again, it's at the very least, a pretty convenient reading of statistics by the Postal Service. It is. And they basically said they had a press release, they held all sorts of interviews, and they had California respected government public servant come out and say, no. Not only is this a bad rap for the post Office, going postal is a myth. And to work at the post office, why? You couldn't find a safer place to work in the United States. CDC statistics bear it out. Here it is in black and white. And the press ate it up because the idea that American culture was wrong, that our intuition had gotten it wrong, and that actually it turns out that the whole thing is a myth. You and I would eat that up normally, sure. But we get the even greater pleasure of saying that the California Report was a myth. And that's where a lot of people's reporting stops even today if you look up going postal and the idea of working at the post office being dangerous, some reporting stops right there. That the California report proved that it was a myth. And it turns out that other people came along and said, this California report is way off. And here's the truth. Going postal is actually quite real. It's just that the California commission went at it from the wrong direction. Yeah. Well, kind of purposely. Yeah, not kind of purposely. Very much purposely. $4 million purposefully. Yeah. Notably the one man named Stephen Musaco. I don't even know what accent that was. He's been off a couple of weeks. You can tell he is a 34 year veteran or was at the time of the USPS. Worked, it says here, nearly every capacity. I think he had a lot of jobs at the postal service and he wrote a book called Beyond Going Postal. Chuck, we should also say that one of those jobs is very important. He was a workplace improvement analyst and one of the things that he was responsible for doing was figuring out what caused workplace violence at the post office. So it wasn't just like just some guy who had some ideas. Like this guy had learned first hand what was really going on the post office. And he saw this California report as a whitewash. Yeah. And he used their own statistics, but he also used his own personal experience anecdotal from his own point of view and the research he did as that workplace improvement analyst. And he was like, let's look at the stats. The National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health, part of the CDC, said that 13% of worker on worker homicides in the 80s were postal employees, even though they account for three quarters of 1% of the civilian workforce. So three quarters of a percent of the workforce is responsible for 13% of the worker on worker workplace homicide? Yeah, and I think he was the I don't know about the first, but one of the major voices that was saying, okay, so you might get killed more often as a taxi driver, but not by another taxi driver. Right. And the very definition of going postal, it's not Mary Lou Henner walking in and shooting Judd Hirsch in the taxi bay. That would be going postal. Exactly. Right. Or going taxi. Sure. Well, it's still be going postal. I guess it applied everywhere. Right. But it means a worker on worker, usually homicide, almost always in the workplace, usually related to work. I can't believe that it took someone to write a book to point this out. Right. And why everyone was going, oh, wait a minute. A convenience store employee getting robbed and killed is not the same as going in there and shooting up your office. Yeah, I know. It's kind of bizarre. I'll bet the alternative press was all over it. But it took this guy to come along and write this book and be like, hey, let me spell it out for you. So that was one thing. Was he just basically said, yes, going postal is real and here's the stats that prove it. Yeah, and here's why. Yeah, that would be another big one. Basically, it's a pretty toxic environment. The California report itself did a survey of 20,000 post employees on their culture and compare that to national averages and other professions. And this is stuff like I said, it's in the California report that said postal workers scored way lower than the national average in all seven areas of positive attitude towards management. Yeah, that was a big sticking point. Including like do you agree with the statement, I am confident in the fairness and honesty of management. Right. They're like, no, not really. Do you feel like you have autonomy at work? That was a big one. Not nobody, but they scored 39% favorable rating compared to the national average of 77%. So basically half as much said that they felt that they had autonomy or any kind of ability to direct their own work orself yeah, and I wonder why, but it seems like the postal Service, more than other jobs, had a culture and it seems like they've tried to correct it. So I can't speak to like the current status, but when I worked there in the 80s, it seems like it had this weird culture of management being militaristic and talking down and dressing down employees in front of other employees. Yeah. So that was it. I mean, plain and simple. Like, that was the style. It was kind of I saw it described as a paramilitary style. And one of the big three lines that I think made a lot of postal workers and probably still do, but definitely did in the feel helpless, powerless and push to the brink was that they were subservient to their supervisors whose direct orders they had to follow. So imagine for Jerry's own boss, step two. Imagine if we said, what, we're going to do an episode on going postal? And Jerry said, I order you not to do that. I don't want you guys talking about that. You can't do it well. And you got to add you're not doing two podcasts now you're going to do eight. Okay. In not listening to Jerry, we could just lose our jobs just for that. She could be like, well, that's it. You didn't listen, you're fired. That was the culture, that was the structure, and I think still is. At the post office, you had to follow a direct order from your supervisor. Just like in the military, you had a choice. You either listened or you lost your job. Right. That was a big one. Okay, so that's kind of like this mindset of how you are coming into work every day and you're getting this every day, multiple times a day from this person. How do you not start to kind of hate this person who keeps pushing you and pushing you. Yeah. And they were understaffed and overworked. That was a big one. Working like sometimes up to 80 hours a week. Nixon had charged them with being profitable. That's where a big turn happened. That's where neoliberalism comes in. Right. It's this idea that so Nixon signed the Postal Reorganization Act of 1971 and said, by 1983, postal Service needs to turn a profit. It's no longer going to be receiving taxpayer funding. It needs to make its own money, and we're going to open up competition from private industry, which is where FedEx and Ups came from. That's right. So it went from being a pretty cushy government job where you had a pension and you were taken care of, you had a union, all this stuff. All of a sudden you're like pitted in competition with private industry and now you can be fired at the drop of a hat and you have no protections any longer. It happened overnight. And a lot of people point to this as the Postal Service being among the first industry in the United States economy. That was neoliberalized, where competition, deregulation, all this stuff happened. It's like a model at the Postal Service first, and then it started to spread into the rest of the industry, the rest of the economy, to where now it's just commonplace. It's just capitalism. You don't even call it neoliberal liberalism anymore. Right. And it's just normal to us. It's just doggy dog workplace where if your employer tosses you a few cents for your 401K, you're super grateful. That is not what it was like before. And the Postal Service was the first group to kind of undergo this transformation. And so some people say, well, they're the first ones who had workplace shootings. And if you follow it, the workplace shooting started to get more and more prevalent as more and more of the economy was liberalized. So much so that in the 80s, workplace shooting tripled by the end of the decade. And they say, well, it was because of this neoliberal revolution that came in and just up ended that safety net to where if you didn't produce produce, you could be tossed out on the street and nobody be held accountable for that. Right. Some people don't handle that very well and they can snap and come in and shoot up their workplace. And that's what some people explain the going postal in. Right. And you combine that with incidence of mental illness and the gun culture in this country, and this is where we are. Another thing that was going on at the post office or the Postal Service was that there was not much of a there was no way, if you had an issue, to really fix it. Their grievance process was just ridiculous. As of April 2000 and this is when the California report was released, you could file a grievance and they would provide arbitration. But as of April 2000, there were 126,000 grievances awaiting arbitration, which was one grievance for every seven workers. One out of seven had it filed an official grievance. And that was not just like, I'm unhappy and I'm complaining to my spouse at home, there's an official filed grievance. And from what I understand, to file an official grievance was a big deal because your managers could retaliate against you with impunity right. And harass you out of your job, basically. Yeah. Well, it's what we see now and forever before this with filing agreements on, like, sexual harassment. You're probably on the way out the door if that happens. I mean, things are changing a little bit now. Oh, yeah. Big time. Yeah. So, since 2006, this has really dropped off, I think, only four incidents since 2013. And two of those I'm sorry, three of the four were at, like, a FedEx or a Ups. Yeah. But I guess going FedEx isn't really catchy. No, going postal. Going postal is, yeah. And now you can go postal at your local Go and postal franchise where you can pick up your mail. It's amazing in relative security. So bizarre. It is. We're a weird world in country. What's weird to me is, like, you want this to be wrapped up somehow, and it's not. It's just kind of ongoing, but it's just turned into something else spread. It's weird. Well, if you want to worry about going postal, you can look that up on the internet, see what you come up with. And we are aware of the game Postal. I don't know if we mention it or not. We didn't. Okay. How do you get away with making a game like that? I think they really enjoyed the shock value of it. The second one got banned in New Zealand and Australia. Interesting. Okay. I think long ago. It's time for listener now. I'm going to call this a safe cracking. We got a lot of good remarks about safe cracking, including one guy that said we did the best job of explaining how locks work and that's I was like, really? Yeah. Did you listen to that that we talked about? That was high praise. Hey, guys. Just listening to the safe cracking. Great work. I am co host of Heist podcast about the famous Heist from history plug. Plug. Thought you did a solid, informative piece on safe cracking. A couple of things here, Chuck was actually correct. Some safe crackers do use acetylene torches. For example, the mysterious, expert Australian safe cracker known as Mr X. No. Wasn't that from Arrested Development? That was Mr. F? Was it Mr. F? I watched a few of those the other night, too. Such a great show. Yeah, it is great. Mr X used in a seedling torch to cut a two inch hole into the safe of Carrie Packer, at the time the richest man in Australia, to steal five and a half million dollars in gold safe. Two fun facts about the history of safe cracking. The little joker was a tool used in the early 1009 hundreds. The ten wheel you could place behind the combination dial of a safe. And when the bank manager would enter the combination to the vault each day, it would record the combination via little notches on the ten. Required a robber to break into the bank twice though. Wants to plan it and wants to retrieve it. But the upside is you could pull out the little joker into the combination and walk right into the vault. But you double your exposure. Yeah, but that sounds like a pretty good way to do it if you're going to double your exposure. By the way, that safe I bought, it came and Emily was like, we really need a different kind of safe. Really? It's like, really? She's like, yeah. So now I got this stupid heavy box right, that I'm not quite sure what to do with. Maybe I'll try and sell on Craigslist or something. Sure. Do you remember the combo? I haven't set it as a key. Mainly. You're all set. You can sell it on Craig. Have some weirdos come over to your house to buy a safe. I can. Maybe notarize something for them while they're there. Yeah, make a podcast out of this. I think this is begging for it. And then another fun fact. Baron Max Shinburn was a bank robber in Machinist who took a job at the Lily Safe Company at the time. The biggest safe company in the US. During the late 1800s. He worked there for a year. Not only did he learn everything about how the safes work, he also snuck little jokers into safes now before they were shipped out. And then when he quit, he and his crew traveled to the S and broke into all these safes he had put the back doors into. They broke into so many Lily safes that some say Max and his crew were single handedly responsible for putting Lily Safe Company out of business. Wow. He said all of us at the Heist podcast are massive fans. And that is from co host Matt Unsworth. Matt, thank you so much for that. I think you gave us so much information. There's no need for anybody to go listen to the Heist podcast. No, it sounds like a pretty great podcast. Good Heist movie. So maybe I'll make a good Ice podcast. If you like a good Heist movie, you're going to love a good Heist podcast. I think so. Well, thank you for writing in for that. That's pretty great. Let's see if you want to get in touch with us to let us know about your awesome podcast. We want to hear about it. You can go on to Stepheno.com, follow our social links there. I believe they're still there. And you can send us an email to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com stuff you should know is production of iHeartRadio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts My Heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio App, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good it's criminal. Morbid part true crime and part comedy, Morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. 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How did Nikola Tesla change the way we use energy? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-did-nikola-tesla-change-the-way-we-use-energy | Many people associate Edison with the invention of electricity, but Nikola Tesla heavily shaped the electrical system we still use today. Get the dirt on the electricity wars between Edison and Tesla in this podcast from HowStuffWorks.com. | Many people associate Edison with the invention of electricity, but Nikola Tesla heavily shaped the electrical system we still use today. Get the dirt on the electricity wars between Edison and Tesla in this podcast from HowStuffWorks.com. | Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:25:12 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2009, tm_mon=6, tm_mday=9, tm_hour=15, tm_min=25, tm_sec=12, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=160, tm_isdst=0) | 25121538 | audio/mpeg | "Sharks, the most famous and majestic apex predators on earth. Introducing Shark Week. The podcast. I'm Luke Tipple, the marine biologist and shark expert with over 20 years experience in the field. I'm gonna take you on a dive with to me, you are going to learn a lot about sharks. And you'll also hear exclusive interviews with the stars of Shark Week to get a behind the scenes look. Listen to Shark Week, the podcast on Apple podcast spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. What if you were a gigantic snack food maker and you had to wrestle a massively, complex supply chain to satisfy cravings from Tokyo to Toledo? So you partner with IBM Consulting to bring together data and workflow so that every driver and merchandiser can serve up jalapeno, sesame and chocolate covered goodness with real time, data driven precision. Let's create supply chains that have an appetite for performances. IBM let's create. Learn more at IBM. Comconsulting brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Chuck Bryant. Chuck, Chuck, chuck. How's it going? You can just call me Nickelodeon. Really? Okay. How about Chuck? Yes. All right. How are you doing, Chuck? Good, dude. How are you? I'm good. I'm much better than how you asked me 20 minutes ago when I recorded the other podcast. No, that was two days. So two days from now, right? Yeah. It is magic. We'll have to reveal our secret. One day. We could dress up like Sigfried and Roy. I get to bear and tell everybody. Yeah. Okay. I owe it to you. Jerry is always just the white tiger. Yeah. Nice one, Jerry. Chuck, I have a trivia question for you, beautiful. Okay, hit me. Why are the Los Angeles Dodgers named? The Los Angeles Dodgers? Bing. Okay, Chuck. I know the answer. Do you want me to say it or do you want to say it? I want you to say it. I just asked you a question because when they were in Brooklyn, their original spot, there were a lot of train trolley cars in Brooklyn at the time that had really dangerous electrical wiring that operated them. And people would dodge these electrical lines and these train cars, and so they called them the Brooklyn Trolley Dodgers initially. Did they? And then that shortened to the Brooklyn Dodgers, and then the O'Malley family broke the hearts of Brooklyn and moved into La. I can't believe that still. I know. Who does that? Did you see a documentary in HBO about the Brooklyn Dodgers? No. Oh, so good. No, it was it yeah. I mean, there are people in Brooklyn today that have not watched the baseball game since the Brooklyn Dodgers move. Their hearts were broken so badly. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Rip the heart out of Brooklyn. Yeah. But actually, people might write in, there's been some follow up and O'Malley really tried as hard as to keep the team there. And there were some politics involved. That greedy. Sandy Kofax. Yeah. But off topic a little bit. But not really. Sure. Not really. Because you can make a case that it was Thomas Alva Edison who gave the Brooklyn Dodgers their name. Bring it home, baby. Okay, I will. So by the time the Dodgers were formed in the 1880s right. Edison had basically lit up parts of New York with his incandescent light bulb. Big innovation. It was huge, man. I mean, imagine going from gaslight to electricity. Yeah, I bet it blew people's minds back then. Sure, I imagine so. Especially when they touch one of those trolley lines. Big time. Sure. Okay. Edison was a visionary, a genius. One can make the case. Sure. And an innovator. And he came up with what we know of as the modern harnessing of electricity, which I should probably point out, electricity is not energy. It's an energy carrier. Right. Direct current is what he was his big thing. Right. Direct current is basically it's where electricity, the electric charge, is constant. It never changes. So if you look it is. And if you look at it, it's like a line. It's just a straight line. Right. And Edison was pretty happy with his direct current inventions. The problem is that you lose a lot of it to waste heat over long distances. Yeah. Well, basically, you can't really transport it over super long distances. They found out. Right. Okay. So that was kind of the drawback to it. Other than that, it was enormous. He lit up New York and arguably created what we know of today, is light. Right. But there was another way of looking at things, and that is the alternating current. Yeah. So Edison was super married to direct current. He just saw it. I think I read a quote of a river flowing gently to the sea. That's how we characterize direct current. That will kill you if you touch it. Yeah, big time. And alternating current is if instead of that straight line of a charge or flow of electricity from one pole to the other, I think negative to positive. Always, alternating current looks like a sine wave. Right. So it has a wavelength, and it actually goes back and forth from one pole to another, which is why it's called alternating. And these days, it does so at about 60 cycles per second. So it changes direction 60 times in a second. And it's very steady and reliable. And actually, in those days, too, I think it's the same, which is one of the cool things. Right. So here's the thing. We're talking about electricity here. What I think a lot of people overlook is that Edison was also quite a showman and great businessman. Very much so. As much great businessman as a genius. Right. Yeah. But he was also very stubborn, and he didn't think there was any way to improve or any need to improve upon direct current. Right. There's another guy whose name people might be familiar with, and his name is Nikola Tesla. Not a great businessman. In fact, a very poor businessman. Evidently he was actually he spent some time after he became a great inventor digging ditches just to try to make ends meet. Yeah, apparently he did file for a lot of patents, but apparently he didn't do that nearly enough because a lot of his stuff was kind of stolen and kind of nicked from. Right. So, Chuck, we've got Edison on one side with DC, and we have Tesla on the other side with AC, a couple of nerds going at it. But really, these two guys engaged in this very public rumble, and basically at stake was the infrastructure of the United States world exactly. This huge, huge, massive competition sure. That just took place. And there was some crazy stuff that came out of it. Lots of electrocutions, lots of nefariousness. Oh, yeah. And we're not going to tell you who won yet, because a lot of people don't necessarily know what kind of electricity we use more than the other DC or AC. Today's episode of Stuff You Should Know is brought to you by SimpliSafe home security. SimpliSafe believes that your home should be the safest place on Earth for every family, so they offer advanced, whole home security that puts you, your home, and your family's safety first. With 24/7 professional monitoring, SimpliSafes agents take action the moment a threat is detected, dispatching police or first responders in an emergency, even if you're not home. Yeah, and Simply Safe uses proprietary video verification technology so that monitoring agents can visually confirm the threat in order to get higher priority. 911 dispatch. And SimpliSafe offers comprehensive protection not only against intruders and burglary, but against expensive home hazards. From flooding to fires, you can customize the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes@simplisafe.com. Stuff go today and claim a free indoor security camera, plus 20% off with interactive monitoring. Just go to Simplisafecom stuff. Hey, that's the sound of another sale on Shopify, the all in one commerce platform to start, run and grow your business, isn't it, Chuck? That's right. Shopify gives entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big business, so upstart startups and established businesses alike can sell everywhere, synchronize online and in person sales, and effortlessly stay informed. Scaling your business is a journey of endless possibility. You can reach customers online and across social networks with an ever growing suite of channel integrations and apps, including Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest and more. You can synchronize your online and in person sales, so you gain insights as you grow with detailed reporting of conversion rates, profit margins, and beyond. It's more than a store. Shopify grows with you. So just go to shopify. comStuff all lower case for a free 14 day trial, and get full access to Shopify's entire suite. Of features. Grow your business with Shopify today. Go to shopify. comStuff right now. So we're just going to pay this out, baby. This is just interesting. So, yeah, Nikola Tesla, he's Austrian born, and he arrived in the United States in 1884 when he was just a young lad of 28. And a mere three years later, after being in the United States, he filed for a series of patents that basically outlined what you would need to make the alternating current work. So he made pretty quick work when he came over here to the States, right? He did. Did you ever see the Prestige? No. Great movie. I've heard David Bowie played Tesla in that movie. Nice. Yeah, very cool. Did he do a good job? Yeah, like Labyrinth. Quality job. Oh, better. Okay. I thought so. All right, but just a little sidebar, if you're interested in that kind of thing. But, yeah, after reading this and then finding out that Tesla actually may have sort of invented the radio, even though Marconi gets credit for that, there's a lot of things that Tesla did. He's sort of the unsung inventor when you kind of look at all these little things. Yeah. And again, like you made the point. I think you have to be a really good self promoter. Big time. As much an innovator, especially if you are an innovator, you need to be a self promoter. You get lost out in the annals of history, especially back then. Right. So, Chuck, let's talk about this. You said that he came to the States yeah. From Austria at the age of 28 and filed some really important patents early on, and they were for his alternating current system, right? Yes, indeed. Here's a huge advantage of alternating current. We were talking about how DC is a constant steady output of electricity. An alternating current is all over the place, but it's also a steady output of power. The thing is, because DC doesn't alternate, it loses a lot of energy to heat, and so it's not good for transporting it long distances. Right. So Tesla came up with these patents for the generation of an alternating current and a Transformer. Right. You've heard of these, then you probably don't know what they are. Well, here, this is the key to alternating current. Absolutely. What you do is you generate this electricity and you run it through a Transformer, and with very little power loss right. You can step it up to a tremendous voltage. We'll step it down in this case. Well, no, you step it up first for long distance travel. Oh, yeah. So you're using less power to generate it. Right. But then you run it to a Transformer, and all of a sudden, say, 1000 volts goes to, like, 500,000 volts. So you can shoot that thing amazingly long distances without losing very much of the electricity involved in it. And then when it gets to, say, a neighborhood after passing through the desert or nowhere very dangerously. When it gets to a neighborhood, it goes through another transformer, and then it gets stepped down. That's what I was thinking about. Right. And so since you've lost very little and it's being stepped down easily without much power loss to this transformer, you can supply tons of homes with a single line, like 120 volts, I think is what you end up using out of, let's say, a million volts that's on the line. Right, sure. And it can also be when it's stepped up, voltage wise, it can be stepped down, or it is inevitably stepped down in amplitude, which means that it requires less of a physically smaller line of copper, which also stays on costs, because you remember when the economic fallout was going on and people were stealing copper out of other people's cars and air conditioners because it was valuable. Right. It's expensive stuff, especially if you're talking about creating the infrastructure of an entire country. Right. So Tesla comes up with these patents, and pretty much right then and there changes everything again, except for the self promotion part. Right, right. He did his best work when he was able to hook up with people that were very good businessmen. Right. Who did he hook up with that really changed everything? So, Josh, you're talking about George Westinghouse? Yeah. And I know you've heard of the Westinghouse Company, which probably means he did a pretty good job, if you still know that name. He had an electric company, George did, and it was struggling to work out some details of a successful AC system. And then he heard about this famous lecture that Tesla gave in 1888. So he said, we should get this guy. And Tesla had a couple of financial backers named Peck and Brown. So they approached Westinghouse about commercializing Tesla's work, and at the time he said, all right, sounds like a great idea. I'm going to give you guys 25 grand in cash and another 50,000 in notes and some royalties for the electricity that we create. Right. I think $2.0.50 for every horsepower that was sold through his invention by Westinghouse. Well, I have a little modern conversion for you. Let's hear it. That $75,000 back then would be $1.8 million today. Holy cow. And that's not even counting the royalties. Wow. So this is a lot of dough. It is. So, thankfully, with Peck and Brown's help hooked him up with Westinghouse, now Tesla has a viable situation going on here, and he can actually compete with Edison. Right. His nemesis. He worked for Edison. He did. That was awesome. He went and worked for Edison, and there's legend that he went to Edison and said, look, I've got this alternating current idea. It's really kind of together. And Edison did not want to hear it. Yeah. He was very, like you said, very stubborn. He was like, no, DC, buddy, go make the DC better, which he worked on that. He tried to, right? So actually, yeah, apparently Tesla eventually got so tired of Edison and his mule headedness that he just said, you know what? I'm going off on my own. And I think that's when he started digging ditches, right? That's when he struggled, before he eventually hooked up with Peck and Brown to give him some backing. Right? Today's episode of Stephanie Shannon is brought to you by SimpliSafe home security. SimpliSafe believes that your home should be the safest place on Earth for every family, so they offer advanced, whole home security that puts you, your home, and your family safety first. With 24/7 professional monitoring simply saves, agents take action the moment a threat is detected, dispatching police or first responders in an emergency, even if you're not home. Yeah, and SimpliSafe uses proprietary video verification technology so that monitoring agents can visually confirm the threat in order to get higher priority 911 dispatch. And SimpliSafe offers comprehensive protection not only against intruders and burglary, but against expensive home hazards. From flooding to fires. You can customize the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes at SimpliSafe. comStuff. Go today and claim a free indoor security camera, plus 20% off with interactive monitoring. Just go to SimpliSafe. comStuff hey, that's the sound of another sale on Shopify, the all in one commerce platform to start, run and grow your business, isn't it, Chuck? That's right. Shopify gives entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big business, so upstart startups and established businesses alike can sell everywhere, synchronize online and in person sales, and effortlessly stay informed. Scaling your business is a journey of endless possibility. You can reach customers online and across social networks with an ever growing suite of channel integrations and apps, including Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest, and more. And you can synchronize your online and in person sales, so you gain insights as you grow with detailed reporting of conversion rates, profit margins, and beyond. It's more than a store. Shopify grows with you. So just go to shopify. comStuff all lowercase for a free 14 day trial, and get full access to Shopify's entire suite of features. Grow your business with Shopify today. Go to shopify. comStuff right now. So that brings us back up to the current time. Well, not current as in now, but current back then. And Tesla sounds kind of like a little stubborn guy, too. He used to battle with the Westinghouse guys on the best way to do this, and eventually they settled on what we said before, which is a three phase 60 cycle current that we still use today. And you talked about that lecture that attracted some adherence to Tesla, including Westinghouse, right? Yes. Well, he started to get more and more publicity just because he had such a good idea, despite his terrible self promotion and showmanship right there's. A lot of that involved. His idea was so good, and it was just so clearly superior to DC in the minds of some people that he couldn't help but get publicity. So as this started to develop, edison engaged in an all out public war. Well, he got a little nervous, which is why he engaged in the war in 1890 when this thing was kind of picking up steam and they were getting the 60 cycle thing worked out. That's when Edison was like so what Edison decided to do was to prove to everybody that alternating current is just dangerous. Yeah, that was his main focus. And he did so by performing publicly executions on dogs, horses, and eventually he beat crescendoed by electrocuting to death an elephant named Topsy in public. He did? That's pretty funny. There's nothing funnier than publicly electrocuting an elephant, right? Right. But it turns a little grim, right. Have you heard of William Kemler? Well, I thought it was already grim, but yeah, sure. You got to toughen up Nancy. William Kembler was a convicted axe murderer. I looked him up actually as a convicted hatchet murderer who killed his girlfriend and then very calmly went next door and said, I just killed my girlfriend. Bada Boom Boda. Being that much of a trial later, he was sentenced to death. The thing about Kembler was he was going to be the first person in New York and as far as I can tell, the first person in the United States who would be electrocuted to death rather than hung. This is news to me. I did some extra research. Nice work. I heard electrocution, I'm like, I got to look more into this. Right? So Kendler is going to be the first person in the electric chair and he is on August 6, 1890, has a date with Destiny and Tesla's invention. Apparently they hadn't decided which way to go. Should it be DC, should it be AC? And this guy, who also used to publicly electrocute animals on behalf of Edison, managed to finagle a used Old Westinghouse AC generator to be used to get rid of Kembler. And the execution was very public and it was very horrible. Apparently there are 25 witnesses, most of them vomited, at least one fainted. I think one of the physicians that was attending to the guy ran out of the room, couldn't watch. They put 2000 volts of juice through the guy for, I think, like 1012 seconds. He just turned totally rigid, apparently punctured his finger with his fingernail. It was bad, right? And then they stopped and the doctors went over and looked at him and he started breathing again. Right. And they shouted to throw the juice back on. They had to kill this guy because it was obviously an excruciating pain. So they did it again and they left it on for a minute. And apparently the generator didn't stop generating more and more voltage, so they have no idea how much they passed through this guy. Apparently sweat came out of his pores blood came out of his pores like sweat, he started to burn. And then finally, after a minute, they turned it off. The long shot of this is that it came out that this was an AC generator, albeit an old beat up one that shouldn't have been used in the first place. And William Kembler was an actual casualty, very brutal casualty, in the war between Edison and Tesla. Well, he should have thought about that before he took the hatchet to the girlfriend. You know, I bet he would have thought twice had he known what his fate was going to be. See, this would have the opposite effect on me. Edison was saying, look how dangerous this is. If I would have seen that, I would have said, wow, that's the electricity that I want supplying power to my house. The kind that makes blood come out of your porch. Yeah. Because if you can do that, it can probably light up your room. Right. Well, it certainly lit up. William Kimberley So they're in a public war, a very public war. Now edison is sweating it. And then in 1893, Westinghouse won the bid to light up the Chicago Worlds Fair, which was the Columbian Exposition. Yeah, a big deal. And a big blow to Edison. He did. And you know how we won the bid? Hey. Undercut to Edison, GE had put in a bid for a million dollars, which, if 75,000 was 1.8 million, imagine how much a million dollars was back then. Yeah. Time. That was GE's bid. And by this time, GE had assumed Edison's company. Right. Edison General Electric, I think, is what it was called. So he was with GE now. They put in a million dollar bid. Most of it was to cover the copper wire, because, remember, to get electricity over long distances using DC, the copper wire has to be big. You have to keep the amps up to keep the voltage up. So you lose less on the far end. Right, sure. So just by using less copper that alone, Westinghouse was able to put in a bit of half a million undercut them by half. So they got the right to the Columbian Exposition, which was big. This is the turning point right here. Yeah. I mean, the rest, literally, as they say, it's history. Because Grover Cleveland flipped the switch and 100,000 light bulbs lit up and everyone said, boy, AC might be the way to go here. That was it. Yeah, it was cheaper, it worked. And also, apparently all over the fair, where Tesla's inventions on display. So I think 27 million people visited the Chicago World Fair that year, and every single one of them got to witness alternating current, which ultimately won. And even without the World's Fair, I mean, that really punctuated it. But just because it was efficient and economical. Do you know how much you pay for a kilowatt hour of electricity now? Not much. No. It's like $0.10, tops. Yeah. And there's no telling how much it would be with DC. Plus, also, I was thinking about this. You could make the argument that Tesla has saved tons of lives from electrical accidents that never took place. Yeah, true. Because if you have DC, you're not using transformers. You're not stepping it up or down. Yeah. That's a lot of heat. And you can't just send 500,000 volts into your electrical outlet. You know, how many people die? Have we just gone with DC? It would have never happened. Maybe not. It would have never happened. So a few years after that, westinghouse built a hydroelectric plant at Niagara Falls, and all of a sudden, Buffalo had power. And then that went to New York City. Power. New York City. They were just showing off by this time. Yes. And then, dude, it's all over. But don't feel too bad for Edison because we still use DC. We use both we use DC and car batteries and locomotives. Sometimes motors use DC. So it's not I would call this consolation prizes. Yeah. Sort of the booby prize. Yeah. And you put AC and DC together and you have one of the best rock bands in history. So, Chuck, you want to talk a little more about Tesla? You know that he also had a vision. He never managed to do it, but he had a vision of wireless. The wireless that we enjoy now, he was thinking about in, like, 1890. Yeah. Josh. He met with JP. Morgan, who was, as you know, one of the most powerful men on Earth at the time. Sure. And he said, basically, I envisioned a world system of wireless communications to relay telephone messages across the ocean. Not just telephone. I think music as well. Broadcast news music and stock market reports and private messages. Exactly what we're doing now. Dude, tesla. Yes. He was where it's at. Sure. He basically just didn't have enough money. I think he probably could have done it had he had enough money. He was working on a tower, and it was very clear that he needed a lot more than 150,000. Morgan kicked him, and Morgan kind of lost interest. And it was Marconi, actually, who put the nail in that wireless coffin because he came up with the telegraph. It's like, who's? The telegraph and the radio, which we already said Tesla kind of did a lot of work on the radio, too. Yeah. Apparently, Tesla pointed out that Marconi used no less than 15 Tesla patents to create that wireless transmission of the S that made him so famous. Right. My impression of Tesla is that he was just this uber genius who was so much into his own genius work that he didn't understand that it required self promotion and business savvy and showmanship, and he didn't care about that stuff. So that's why he died alone in 1943 in New York. Sad stuff. Chuck. It is not quite as sad as the fate of Topsy the Elephant or William Kembler, but still very sad. Exceed. Yes, that was our awkward walk through the life of Nikola Tesla. Did we ever say, oh, yeah, he went out. Well, I guess we implied it. But yet today, even still, the power stations that generate power do them on the 60 cycle process, right? But everyone, if you ask your common person on the street who invented electricity, they would say, oh, Edison. And did you also know that the light bulbs, the incandescent light bulbs that he created were 95% inefficient? I know. What the heck? All right, so that's a Tesla. And Edison can rock. Speaking of rock, the band Tesla rock if we really want to go there. Remember them? Yeah, they didn't rock. Those the thing. They're terrible. Okay, so Chuck, we just did that. Do you think it's time for a listener mail? Please, god, yes, please indeed. Thank you. So, Josh, I'm just going to call this dreamy listener mail, and it's another dream. And just let me tell folks, I'm not getting into this. Please don't start sending me all your dreams and certainly don't send them in haiku form, but this is a good one. This is sent to us from Ruth from England. And Ruth was backpacking around the United States in 2008. I know where Ruth changed close, and she said, congrats on your country, by the way, which is kind of funny. We're very proud of it, Ruth. We're going to take full credit for that. Congrats on your country as well. And she actually came to Atlanta with her friends, and this is kind of funny. She mistakenly thought they were going to Atlantic City. And so if you happen to see three very confused English girls in mid September carrying backpacks, looking for casinos, that was us. So that was kind of funny. They ended up at the video poker machines in the big H gas station. Right? We should have introduced Ruth to the Internet, where she could have found out that she was about 1000 miles off course. So Ruth writes in and says she had this dream when she's in her mid twenty s. And here it is. I was a woman in my mid 20s with a very maternal and passive attitude, on holiday on some kind of island resort. As a dream, we're on. The atmosphere in this resort began to change. The reps became increasingly belligerent, and some of the holidaygoers became edgy, then followed a very detailed and structured experience of the island becoming a prison state. Apparent to my mind is a microcosm of an apocalyptic world. She became involved in a secret resistance movement led by a group of African Americans. And there were many interpersonal stories, which I won't bore you with now. So she wrote it down in her travel diary. This is where it gets interesting. She wrote it down in a diary and she told this. To a lot of different people. It was such a cool dream over the years. And when she returned to England, or I guess over her travels she returned to England, she picked up a newspaper, flipped to the art section, and there was a Books of the Past column, a space devoted to rediscovering books that have gone out of publication. And there was an exact synopsis of her dream. So she would jump about a book she'd read before? No, she'd never read it. The book was written by an Australian woman 80 years ago, was out of publication for decades, was not even popular at a time, and she had never read it. So she dreamt about an 80 year old unpopular novel she had never read. Weird. Pretty cool. That's pretty cool. So that is from Ruth. She says you don't have to read this out, but it's a little late for that, Ruth. We did anyway. And what you're talking about with her changing clothes? She says that when she went to the Atlanta Aquarium, she said please say thank you to the troop of schoolgirls who had to see us wash, brush our teeth and change our clothes in the bathroom of the aquarium. So Ruth thinks that Atlanta's Atlantic City, that Chuck and I founded America, and that we know the girl scouts that saw her change in the bathroom. Right? I like this roof. Yeah, she's possessed by some 80 year old Australian. The demon of an 80 year old astronomy. Right, Ruth? Hats off to you. If you're ever in town again, look us up. We'll go out and get a pint together. You're buying, Ruth? If you want to buy, chucking me a pint. Yeah. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@howstepords.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstofworks.com. Want more HowStuffWorks? Check out our blogs on the houseofworks.com homepage brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. There's a perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, My Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today. You know you're a pet mom when you plan your vacation around your pet. At Halo, we get it because we're pet moms, too. 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How Biohydrocarbons Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-biohydrocarbons-work | Hydrocarbons are simple compounds that help fuel the modern world, but they're not really a sustainable resource. Explore new energy solutions, starting with biohydrocarbons, in this podcast from HowStuffWorks.com. | Hydrocarbons are simple compounds that help fuel the modern world, but they're not really a sustainable resource. Explore new energy solutions, starting with biohydrocarbons, in this podcast from HowStuffWorks.com. | Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:05:08 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2009, tm_mon=6, tm_mday=4, tm_hour=16, tm_min=5, tm_sec=8, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=155, tm_isdst=0) | 23671612 | audio/mpeg | "With no fees or minimums on checking and savings accounts. Banking with Capital One is like the easiest decision in the history of decisions. Kind of like choosing to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast. And with Capital One's top rated app, you can deposit checks and transfer money anytime, time, anywhere, making Capital One an even easier decision that's banking reimagined what's in your wallet terms apply. Capital One NA Member FDIC this July, don't miss an entire summer of surprises on Disney Plus with Disney's High School, the series season three Zombies, three Doctor Strange in the multiverse of Madness, and the wonderful summer of Mickey Mouse. Plus new episodes of Marvel Studios, ms. Marvel and National Geographics. America the Beautiful. From the award winning producers of Planet Earth, Frozen Planet and the Disney nature films, america the Beautiful takes viewers on a tour of the most spectacular and visually arresting regions of our great nation. All these and more streaming this month on Disney Plus, brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Welcome to stuff you should know from housetofworkscom. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. A-K-A compass head. With me is Charles W. Chuck. Chuckers. Chucky Bryant. Yes. Chuck. Chuck. Chuck. Chuck. Chuck. Chuck. Chuck. Chuck. Chuck. Chuck. Chuck. Chuck. Chuck. Bravo. We have Matt, too. Guest producer Matt. Again. Handsome guest Producer matt he's a dream. Voted yes. Pay attention, Matt. You might learn a thing or two. So don't be mean to Matt. Chuck, I'm not supporting. I guess you want to get to it. Yeah, maybe. There's no point trying to beat around the bushy. It sounds like you're dragging a little bit today. Okay. No, dude, I can never think of the analogies. Bright eyed and bushy tailed, I'm up like a light switch, up like a haircut for men. Customer. Terrible. Let's move on. Okay. Chuck, do you know what one of the simplest organic compounds found on the planet are? School me. I'm about to. Chuck, we're going to call those hydrocarbons for the remainder of this podcast. Right? This little sciencey. But hang with us, you might learn something. It is, but it's actually really exciting science. It is. I know. I'm roused. I can tell. All right, so, Chuck, hydrocarbons are, as I said, very simple. It's just a chain of hydrogen and carbon atoms. Pretty simple, mixed together. But for all their simplicity, they pack a heck of a punch. Indeed they do, actually. As a matter of fact, they're really ubiquitous as far as the stuff we use to fuel our global economy goes. Meaning that hydrocarbons are actually active ingredients in petroleum, coal, natural gas. So basically, these are the things that give us the energy that we use to live our lives, right? It's a good way to say it. Thanks, Chuck. Is that the end? That's it. All right, well, thanks for joining us. So, Chuck, there's a couple of problems with what we're getting our hydrocarbons from these days. And the first one is that eventually we're going to run out. Right. That's a pretty well known fact. And it's troublesome. It's not necessarily a fact, my friend. I don't want you to get unnecessary listener mail. Okay, sure. It's actually a hotly debated topic, peak oil theory, which, frankly, I think we should do one on because it's actually really interesting. Right. You have a good article on that. Thank you. And thank you. I have to say. I just want to go ahead and say it now to Matt Baker. You know Matt over in development. I do. He is actually a fanatic about energy in the future of energy use and exploring other ways, and he's actually a huge skeptic. So he helped lend me a little bit of healthy skepticism for this one. Right. So it's good. He's fighting a good fight. But I'm of the opinion that we are running out if we haven't started to already hit peak oil. Right, sure. So we're going to run out, but we still need the stuff. And then the other problem is this the internal combustion engines that we currently have are not very efficient. No, they're not. On the average, from what I understand, according to the EPA, about 15% of the potential energy found in like, the gas or the diesel or whatever we put into an engine actually becomes usable energy or energy that makes your car go down the road or powers your air conditioner. Right. The rest of it is lost all sorts of different things, heat, whatever. But one of the ways that energy is lost is through incompletely burnt hydrocarbons. Right. That comes right out of the old tailpipe. Yeah. And what happens, Tucker? Well, I was talking to Emily about this last night, trying to break this down in my research. And basically the easiest way to say it is these petroleum based fuels burn less efficiently because they're more complex. Right. And that's really all there is to it. Things like ethanol, if you looked at the what is it called? Not the helix, but the little the bond. Yes, the bond. Actually, just when you look at the two, compared to each other, they're very much more simpler. Sure. So that's really all there is to it. It burns cleaner because more of it gets burnt initially. There's none left over. Right. So we burn these hydrocarbons, and when we separate the bonds, it creates this reaction where we get energy. Right. But if all the bonds aren't broken, then you have some that, like you said, come out the tailpipe. And let's say you have a carbon atom that interacts with the air and gets an oxygen molecule attached to it. All of a sudden you have carbon monoxide. Exactly. Which is bad. Ozone. Ozone's. Another one. Right. Which is not to be confused with the ozone in the stratosphere, the ozone layer. It's actually a good thing. It is not good. And it actually is the same thing. It just depends on where it is exactly. Right. And then, of course, you also have carbon atoms attached to one another. Makes soot. So there's a lot of problems with hydrocarbons the way we're using them right now. But there are solutions to this problem. Exciting solutions. Yeah. Again. I'm aroused by these. Yes, I was talking same thing to Emily last night about this, that there are actually a lot of different ways that we could make fuel. It's just that the system we have in place has been there for so long with the politics and everything. It's just well entrenched. So all these new methods are kind of an efficient system because it's been in place for so long and all the systems are in place. So starting up these new methods is kind of expensive and time consuming. Expensive, time consuming. Plus, like you said, we've gotten really good at extracting oil from the ground, even from the sea floor. Remember when we did the who owns the Oceans podcast? We've gotten really good at getting oil out of the earth, right? Right now. Right. Because we've been doing it for so long. Now all of a sudden, it's becoming painfully clear that we need to come up with another solution and fast. Or else if we have hit peak oil already, our global economy is going to come to a screeching halt. And then hopefully we'll have enough momentum to pick it up with minimal stoppage. Right. But probably not. We're probably going to be in big trouble because I think we waited a little too long. Hopefully not. I'm not much of an alarmist, really. Sure. I don't think the world is going to end in 2012. I don't think so either. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office when you could be using Stamps.com? Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses. Because Stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and Ups shipping services you need right from your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS. Rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use Stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale. No longterm commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. Okay, so what's leading the pack? Chuck? Could it possibly be biohydrocarbon? Yes. Josh? Well, you tell me, genius. All right, jerk, I'll tell you what a biohydrocarbon is. It's hydrocarbons derived from plant life. Right. Converting plant sugars. Essentially. Yes. Which is not necessarily just sugars, either. We'll get into that later. Is this one of the many? Yeah. So this is where I started to get confused. I know. Let's just put it out there. Chuck, come on. Late on everybody. Late on me. Chuck was frustrated earlier because we were researching this, and he was like, what is going on? Are we looking at ethanol? Are we looking at camelina? Which catalyst works best? And we both figured out that what's going on is no one has this magic bullet yet. Right, Chuck? Right. Which actually makes the whole thing that much more exciting, is kind of like watching a horse race. Like, has the technology been developed yet? We just need to make it more efficient. Is there a plan out there we haven't even heard of that's actually going to rescue the world? Well, maybe a little hint for the I know, I like that one. The Patagonian one. Yeah. But there's research on all kinds of fronts, which is the good part. So, like you said, it's kind of a race to see who can do it the cheapest and most efficiently and the quickest. There's one that's already pretty well established, that's cellulosic ethanol. And Chris Paulette and I actually did a podcast many moons ago on that, but I want to give a quick refresher. And also, I think biohydrocarbons is pretty much interchangeable with the word biofuels, from what we can tell. Right. But with cellulosic ethanol, all it is ethanol, which you can use to power an engine, especially when it's been modified to be powered by ethanol. And it's just created by fermenting, extracted sugars from cellulose and lignin, which provides structure and shape and form to cell walls of plants. Like the plant stands up thanks to that. Exactly. And basically what they do is they throw a bunch of this and it's called biomass feedstock when it's used to make ethanol. Right? Right. They throw it in this VAT, throw some microbes in there. The microbes go to town, eat this stuff, make these byproducts waste products, and then they're catalyzed with other enzymes, and they go through this process of processing. Out the end comes the two final products, which are water and ethanol. Right. And actually, there's a real advantage to this, because we're already throwing away 430,000,000 tons of plant waste every year. We're just throwing it away. Sawdust, wood chips, stalks, that kind of thing. Yeah. But stuff we just can't use or can't we can if we make cellulosic ethanol out of it. Right. It's just garbage before. But then once we're using it, like I said, it becomes biomass feedstock. Here's the problem. You were saying earlier that it's a very expensive process. I said it's not very efficient. These are all extremely accurate. And the reason why is, like, those microbes I mentioned that are changing the cellulose into sugars to be fermented, those die after a very short period of time, and they have to be replaced. So that's an added cost. Right. Indeed. Okay. Indeed. Microbe replacement is actually that's a very expensive process, micro replacement. It's a killer. It kills you every time. And plus, also remember I mentioned that the two end products are water and ethanol. They mix together really easily, which is good. No, it's not. No. Because then you have to extract the ethanol from the water, which is costly and time consuming. Right. And it's an added step. Right. Yeah. What they're trying to do with some of these processes is limit these steps, which makes it obviously cheaper. Plus, also, even once you do extract the ethanol from the water and you are transporting ethanol to your local gas station via pipeline. Right. The way we do it with oil now, we shoot it through pipes, refined gas. We shoot it through pipes, and it's separated by columns of water. It'll be like gas, water, gas, water, gas, water. You can't do that with ethanol. We have to come up with a completely new technology for it, because it'll just mix with the water, and the stuff that comes out the end would have to be extracted again. Right. So there's a bunch of challenges to cellulose like ethanol. Really what it comes down to is it's just too expensive to replace oil right now. Yeah. Okay. So, again, what's the solution? Well, which one? Let's start wrapping. You want to talk about camel in? Yeah. Okay. Camellina is like the wonder plant, right? Well, perhaps if you want camelina, you should go to Montana or Idaho. Is that the other Oregon, the grower? Yeah. Montana seemed to kind of stand out above the rest is, like, the big potential producer for camelot. Right, right. One of the cool things about camelina is it can be grown in a rotation with wheat crops. Yeah. We grow a lot of wheat. Right. Actually, it's been shown, and it's fallow. You use it on a fallow land. Right. Now, they just let weeds grow in a huge tract of wheat cropland. But if they replaced with camelina, actually, when they plant wheat the next season, it has about 15% more increased yield than when they just use weeds the season before. You want to talk yields, please? Catalina yields roughly double what soy yields. And soy is the wonder plant. Everyone knows. Sure. And the oil that Camilla produces is more cold resistant than your average biodiesel. And drought resistant. Very much drought resistant. Since it grows in marginal lands as well, it requires very little fertilizer or insecticide. So that's huge, too. Well, it sounds like this is the answer. Wait, it gets even better. Chuck more to get the camelana oil that's used to produce biohydrocarbon fuel. Right. You actually have to crush the plant matter and you extract the oil, the stuff that's left over actually makes an excellent livestock feed. Okay. There you go. So you've got all that extra income right there, right? Yeah. Well, they've done some studies on the emissions from, let's say, jet fuel made by camel, and they call it green jet fuel. Sure. And there is an 84.4% savings compared to regular petroleum jet fuel in greenhouse gas emissions, right? Yeah. That's huge. That's way huge. And if you're talking biodiesel, it exhibits savings of 78.5% over regular diesel. Over petroleum based diesel? Yes, sir. And even more, you said that they were doing tests with it. Right. They're actually conducting real flights with it. So 50% jet fuel, like petroleum based jet fuel and 50% bio jet fuel. Green jet fuel. That's awesome. And so it's actually keeping the plane aloft, and I believe it's more energy efficient. Nobody wants to use no matter how environmentally friendly a fuel is, everybody's going to hate it if planes crash when you fill it up with it. Right? Sure. And we're talking about Montana. The state of Montana alone could support between two and 3 million acres of this stuff, producing how many millions of barrels of oil? Well, 200 to 300 million gallons of oil a year. Here's the rub that farmers grow education, they don't know a lot about it at this point. They don't. But even if every farmer in Montana, we're producing the maximum amount of camel in oil every year right. 300 million gallons a year. Three to four, I think. See, the problem is here in the US. We use 21 million barrels of oil a day. So even if Montana produced the maximum yield of Cambalina oil, we use it up as a nation in just a few days. You know what I'm saying? So that's a huge problem with so much of that. Plus, also camelot goes through a much similar process or a similar process to cellulosic ethanol. We've got these extra expensive steps. Right. So clearly we have the cleaner burning fuel part done, right, because it's producing simpler biohydrocarbons. So they're burning more efficiently and they're burning up completely. So there are fewer emissions. Except there's carbon dioxide emissions still. Right. In a truly perfect alternative fuel, the two waste products are going to be water and carbon dioxide. Right. The problem is we're still emitting carbon dioxide, right? Actually, hydrogen would be the way to go. Sure. But yeah, please. So that you just scoffed you like that. It was a pretty clear scoff, wasn't it? We still have this hurdle, and one of them is making a fewer step process, which would be inherently less expensive. Right, right. Are you talking about the mystery fungus? No. Yes. Sure. Not a mystery fungus, but super fungus. Well, that's different. I mean, that's like just going to the source to find, I don't know, maybe some sort of fungus that produces diesel on its own without any steps. Shall we talk about that? Is there such a thing? I think so. They have found this in Patagonia, is that right? In the rainforest? Yes. And it is called help me out here. Gliocladium rosium. I think that's probably pretty close, Chuck. Gliocladium rosium. Or grosium. Yeah, let's just call it that. Okay. Or G. Rose. Or just drove drones'let's. Call it G rosium. Okay. And they've discovered this fungus kind of by accident or not kind of accident? Very much by accident. Sure. Which is the best part. Yeah. They were running around the Patagonian rainforest, exposing tree fungus to antibiotics to see what happened. Right. A bunch of hippies. Yeah. And what they found out was this gerosium grew in the presence of these gases when everything else was dying away. So they kind of went, hey, would it be a good thing? What is this stuff? Exactly. And then they looked a little closer and what well, are you saying the best part is that you can grow this in labs? Sure. That's one part. I think the best part is the fact that this thing naturally excretes diesel. Well, sure. Diesel fuel. There's a fungus out there that excretes what we would just call diesel fuel. Yes. Which is nuts. Well, you're going the obvious route, I thought. Sorry. Talk about, like, cutting steps out. Yes, big time. I mean, you just expose this stuff to antibiotics, right? Yeah. And it starts producing diesel directly from cellulose, from eating on a tree. Right. And like you said, they've already managed to reproduce it in the lab. Right, right. And they call it myco diesel. Yeah. And yeah, they can create the stuff in the lab. It's crazy. Which this is one of the big, exciting things about gerosium. Well, plus, also, g rosium, as if you couldn't get any better, produces potent antibiotics as a byproduct as well. I didn't think it was producing diesel and antibiotics. So why don't we just go this route? I think we should bow down to the g rosium master, which will clearly dominate the human race within the next 50 years. Right. And it's only like six months ago that they figured the stuff out. Yeah, it's brand new. Dawning of a new age, maybe. Well, it was twelve months ago they found out, but it took him six months to get out of the forest. And they were running the whole time to tell everybody. Sure they were. Yeah. They kept falling down. Hey, everyone, when you're running a small business, every second counts and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office? And you could be using stamps.com. Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses. Because Stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and Ups shipping services you need right. From your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer. No special supplies or equipment necessary, and you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS. Rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. So what I want to know well, the good part is that they can actually manufacture it, because that's what I was worried about was cool, they found this thing, but it's in the rainforest. So then I thought, well, that just means you're going to start raping the rainforest. Yeah, I thought the same thing too. And I have to say, I was telling you that they synthesized it already. That's awesome. Figured out how to manipulate it. Go science. Exactly, precisely. Also, there's a movement afoot to cut out extra steps in the ethanol process or converting Kamalina oil to usable diesel fuel. Right. And that's using different kinds of catalyst. There are these guys at MIT that are using metals like platinum and copper, I believe, right. To catalyze these things. What happens is basically, from what I understand and again, this is MIT, and I definitely did not attend MIT. You're a bunch of dummies. Yes. What are you talking about? I know. Basically, you take this cellulosic ethanol state, right, and you run it over these catalysts that are very high heat, like you have ultra heated platinum. And what happens is when it goes over, it actually converts the chemical composition of the ethanol, or not the ethanol, the main ingredients used in ethanol. Right. The cellulose, let's say, and it converts it into biohydrocarbons. Right. There there's no other steps? Actually, there are two steps, but they're actually very quick and it's thousands of times faster. I understand the microbial fermentation. Indeed. You can produce this stuff constantly and it can be recycled. Exactly. The catalyst can be reused because you're not using microbes, you're using metal. Right. And platinum stands up to heat pretty well, right? Even better. The stuff that comes out on the other end, the usable fuel actually separates from the other byproduct, so it's just sitting there on top, making extraction easy. And the stuff that remains on bottom is actually highly usable in the manufacturer of plastic, too. So it seems to me like we're getting closer and closer and closer. The problem is, I think we humans tend to rest on our laurels a lot. We know how to get oil out of the ground. I don't see any oil missing. What's the big problem? Until it all dries up, it's going to take someone of real prominence to come out and be like, you idiots. We're in big trouble, right, for anybody to wise up and really start funding this stuff. But if some great thinker needs to come along and demand it who? Maybe you? I demand that everyone start funding this stuff. Right. And they'd say, and you are as. You're being handcuffed. That's fine. Sure. I've been handcuffed before, and I don't doubt it. It's biohydrocarbons. Is that it? Sure. Well, I'm very impressed, dude. Chemistry and math stuff kind of flies over my head. I did my best to hang in there, but you did great, Chuck. You did great. Thanks, Chuck. So, Chuck, we don't have anything to plug. We're done with biohydrocarbons. That can only be one thing, my friend. Listener mail. Exactly. So, Josh, I'm just going to call this Italian listener mail, okay? Because it comes from an Italian can you maybe say it in the next? Then I might throw in a word or two in there because he doesn't say anything about the pond. See? So this from Stefan in Italy. And this is in regards to our propaganda podcast. Okay. Which was just recently. Really? Yeah. He wants to point out that, first of all, I'm Italian, so sorry for the bad English. The Prime Minister of Italy, Silvio Bellney, he is apparently quite the propagandist is what this steffen says. And he says here, we can only dream about propaganda being illegal. I don't want to argue through a reducio ad Hitlerm, but the current situation, italy is worse than Nazi Germany. I didn't realize that. Chuck, you're going to get the Italians after us. Well, maybe you don't want the Italians. No, you don't. The night is what they call him, evidently. And he said yes. The KN I-G-H-T is what the ITmedia calls the Prime Minister. And he owns all private free televisions and has shares, and I think he needs TV stations and he has shares in the paper viewings. So being the Prime Minister, he can influence the public TV channels. He illegally became the owner of nearly every publisher or newspaper in the country. Wow. And he sues everyone who allows himself to criticize him. What a little Italian influence there on the beach? He says there are plenty of cases of phone interceptions and or admissions that he influenced people. And some news and or journalists are being ridiculously one sided. You never hear anything bad about the government or the prime Minister, and protesters and opposition are always displayed as fools. So basically, it sounds like Italy is in some big trouble over there. Yeah. So he goes on for a while, but I'll just kind of skip down to the end. There are two free news sources and some radio stations that we have called radical radio and the Internet. But they're working on some laws to ban blogs and already have something in place to censor certain sites. So I just wanted you to know this probably the best modern day propaganda you will find stefan in Italy. And, Stefan, they're coming for you as we speak. Yeah. Sorry, Stefan, but I think that Chuck and I both say hats off to you for being the voice of, I don't know, reason over there in Italy. Chuck, I feel like we're complicit in smuggling information out of Italy and then broadcasting it around the world. I didn't realize it was like this. I've been to Italy. I thought it was a pretty cool place. I didn't get that sense. Did you also know did you see that one email from a listener in China who said that our blog is outlawed there? Yeah, I like being banned. That is the coolest thing I've ever heard. We're like, right there with the Dalai Lama. Sure. Yeah. All right, well, if you want to compare Chuck and I to the Dalai Lama, let us know what's going on in your country or just to say hi. You can send an email to stuff podcast@howstuffworks.com, but don't get caught. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstofworks.com. Want more housetofworks? Check out our blogs on the houseofworks.com homepage. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. There's a perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. 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What's so special about Route 66? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/whats-so-special-about-route-66 | In this episode, Josh and Chuck hit the open road as they explore the history, allure and decline of America's most iconic highway: Route 66. | In this episode, Josh and Chuck hit the open road as they explore the history, allure and decline of America's most iconic highway: Route 66. | Thu, 05 Aug 2010 17:35:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2010, tm_mon=8, tm_mday=5, tm_hour=17, tm_min=35, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=217, tm_isdst=0) | 22348514 | audio/mpeg | "Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetofworks. Comm. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles Wilson, you chuckle. Bryant Poor Chuck. He was the little kid whose name could never be picked in that song. Oh, my gosh. Was it by the bad kids? Everyone that did it thought they were just so clever because they were the first person that ever done that to me, and I was just, like, getting line jerk. Oh, yeah. My name rhymes with bad words. Yeah, big deal. Definitely does. So does Josh, though. No, it doesn't. It's free and easy. My parents gave it a lot of thought. They're like, what can they call our son? Nothing. They got nothing on that one. So they just called me Fatty instead. Doughboy. How's it going? Good. Chuck. Yes. We've got a little bit of highway stretching out in front of us today. Are we on the open road, Route 66? Men yeah. Probably the most iconic road in America. Most romanticized, for sure. Yeah. That's not saying a lot, though. I mean, it is, for sure, but how many roads are there really? Even? Like, I was thinking about that, too. This is a Debbie Ranka article. She's your buddy freak girl. Right. And she says in the article, it is the most romanticized, the most immortalized road in pop culture. And I was thinking, like, there is nothing else. There aren't any other roads. What other roads are there that are mentioned specifically more than once? There's not a song called I 285? No, there's 85 south. Oh, really? Yeah, which is mentioned by Outcast and the group 85 south. And there's another one called that mentions 85 south. That's all I could think of. Well, roads back then and this is one of the basis of this article is it was a different deal back then. Roads were much more important and meant a lot more than nowadays when you kind of take it all for granted because you can get anywhere. And my hats off to the guys who made sure that Route 66 came into existence because they didn't follow the path that we follow today, which is when you create a highway. So you go from point A to point B with as little resistance as possible, as fast as possible. Right. Yeah. These guys shaped Route 66 so that it literally went through the main streets of small towns throughout America. That's right, Josh. And these guys are two gentlemen in particular, an Oklahoma real estate agent named Cirrus Avery Cyrus. Sure. I like Cyrus. And John Woodruff, who was a highway guy. And they were the two big advocates for starting Route 66 from Chicago to Los Angeles. Well, I think that there was a plan to have a highway from Chicago to Los Angeles. They're in on the debates on where to take it and how to do it. And everybody was like, well, we'll just use the old Santa Fe Trail. Why wouldn't we? I mean, it's already there. You go right there and cirrus it's good enough for the wagon. Yeah. Cirrus was like, oh, no you don't, because that doesn't go through Oklahoma. I'm in Okie and I want this road to go through my home state. Absolutely. By God, if he didn't wrestle it into reality. Yeah. And I got a stat for you here. I found the reason this was necessary is because from 1910 to 1920, in that decade, 500,000 cars grew to 10 million cars. In that decade? In ten years? Yeah. And we weren't ready for that at all. No, we weren't. Chuck. That was a huge boom of automobiles. And basically it was like going from 500,000 computers to 10 million computers and not having an Internet. Hey, it's a nice analogy. Thanks. Yeah. So the Associated Highways of America, they developed a plan. It was pretty comprehensive. It wasn't just like, hey, let's build some roads, let's link them all, let's establish a numbering system. Road signs, road signs, uniform road signs. Absolutely. Warning signs upkeep. How are you going to upkeep all this? It was really comprehensive. Right. Because prior to the creation of the Associated Highways of America plan, it was like immigration. Today it's all patchwork or you never know. If you are an illegal immigrant, you don't know what you're going to run into in Illinois. And if you go to California, you have no it's patchwork. Well, and you would name it you're like, this is the Lincoln Highway, right. Or the same from the faith trail. Yeah. From here to here. It's the Lincoln Highway, right? Yeah. Because the same road could be adopted and renamed by any locality. This group had a tremendous amount of foresight in saying no. If we can get people easily from one place to another in these cars, they'll spend money along the way. Right. And that's exactly what happened. Yes. So one of the roads that came into existence out of this Associated Highways of America plan was eventually named Route 66. And it was officially designated on November 11, 1926, when the National Highway Act was passed. Right. Yes, Josh. Route 66 was born and it was a very popular road and it meant a lot more than here. We've got a road, it linked Chicago to La, which was a really big deal. It helped bring industry from east to west quickly too. Yeah. This is the 1920, so it wasn't like the wild, wild west, but the west wasn't like it was today. Thanks to Route 66, it helped bring it forward and join the rest of the country. Right. The whole thing stretched 2400 miles, right? Roughly. Yeah. One of the things that interests me is it's changed so many times and had some carved out or added on or whatever, that even the National Scenic Byways Association can say exactly how long it was. Right. But roughly 2400 miles. Like we said, it didn't take a direct route from Los Angeles or from Chicago to Los Angeles. It snakes through eight different states illinois, Missouri. And Chuck has a map here illinois, Missouri, kansas, oklahoma, texas, new Mexico, arizona, and California. And although it didn't follow the old Santa Fe trail, it did follow some obscure wagon trail used by minor 49 ers during the California gold rush. So people driving on route 66 were actually following an old wagon trail? Well, yeah. Another cool thing, too, is what it did besides make it quicker and bring industry back and forth quicker. This is the first time a lot of these people in a lot of these towns had access to a road like this. Right. Like back in the day, you were just kind of stuck where you were. And if you wanted to get to Los Angeles, it was a lot tougher than just hopping on what became route 66 or later on I 40. Right. Remember we said that people were spending money along the way at filling stations, at hotels and all this, and there was kind of this celebratory idea of let's attract these people. Let's get them to stay here. Let's get them to stop here and get their guests, let's get them to eat here. So all these really great odd places sprung up. Like, there's the twin arrows, which is just an old store, basically, and it's two old telephone poles sticking out of the ground made to look like arrows. They're painted yellow and red. Yeah. And I mean, that's it. But if you think about it, Chuck, if you and I were to go down peach tree, we're not going to see two giant arrows sticking out of the side of the road. And that could be enough for word of mouth to get through. Like you have to see the two twin arrows. They're huge and enormous and cool. That's what's in your head over this other town that you heard nothing else about. Right. And this is kitchen out. Obviously, when we look now and see Pewee's big adventure and we see the cabazon dinosaurs, it's like it's funny. Or the world's tallest thermometer, which I've always had a problem with because it's not even a thermometer. What does it just look like? A thermometer? Well, yeah, actually, that's not on route 66. That's in Baker. But every time I used to pass it, it angered me because it claims to be the world's tallest thermometer. And it's just a read out of the temperature that's really tall. It's not like it's full of mercury and it's like 100ft of mercury measuring. It's just phony. Yeah. But probably if they did fill it with mercury, it would violate some sort of law. Yeah, route 66, we'll talk about the decline of it in a minute, but it's still packed with some weird things, like the twin arrows, the cozy Dog Drive in, which looks delicious in Illinois, they claim, although other people claim this as well, to have invented the corn dog. Yes. One of our favorite things, aka the hot dog and a stick. Yeah, it's a corn dog. And they're still open today. They've been open since the late forty s. And did you see the sign? No, that was another thing, too. Signs sprung up for these places, and there's some great signs. The Cozy Dog Inn has two hot dogs and they look like honeymoon hot dogs. They're cozy. They're very cozy. And I would stop there just for the sign. And I guess that's the point. Right? Yeah. Same with the giganticus headaches. Did you see this thing? I didn't see a picture of it. Now it looks like one of the Easter Island statues kind of buried up to its chin, maybe. Yeah. And it's 14ft tall. Right. 14ft above ground. Yeah. I don't know how much is underground. Yeah. So again, no reason for it like the twin arrows other than to get people to stop, get out of their car and open their wallets. Right, right. Have you ever been to the Cadillac Ranch? I haven't. That's pretty cool. Like, a lot of these I kind of turn my nose up at because it's really like south of the border type stuff. And I don't mean Mexico. I mean that place in North Carolina. Anyway cadillac Ranch in Texas. Amarillo, Texas. That is where you will find ten Cadillacs from 1949 to 1963 stuck nose down into the ground. You can paint them, you can graffitium, you can do anything you want to them. Really? I didn't know that. I just assumed that the graffiti was now they encourage it. Okay. And it's part of the allure. And that was a helium magnet named Stanley Marsh Commission. That in the 1970s. Then it was moved in the late 90s because it was like civilization was getting too close. Got you. So they actually moved it. So I had that confused with the Chicken Ranch until I read the description. I was like, oh, it's not the Chicken Ranch. What's the Chicken Ranch? It's a famous brothel. Oh, okay. In Nevada, I think. I guess it would have to be Nevada. Yeah. I never been there. I haven't either. I would like to go officially on the record one more time. I have never been there either. I saw it on like, I think an HBO Real Sex special when I was twelve. I got you. Yeah. And then Josh, there's the Meteor Crater, which I've actually been to, and that's why I pulled that page for you. Yeah. So Chuck came up with a little extra supplemental research that included a picture and a description, and I couldn't make heads or tails of why he chose that. Now I understand. Why did you go stand in the crater and get all irradiated? No, but that is in Amboy, California, and we did a TV commercial there and it's across from or it's very near Roy's cafe and right there on Route 66. Roy's cafe is like the only thing around because I 40 killed route 66 in that area. And I got a shirt I should have worn. It like a little Royce cafe. Amboy. Like sort of like a mechanic shirt. Nice. Like a hipster mechanic shirt. Very nice. Crater is really cool, though, right, Josh? Yeah, I think it's like 50,000 years old. Yeah. And it's huge. It's like two and a half miles. Well, let me ask myself. I imagine that the dirt is far, far older than 50,000 years old, but the shape right, occurred 50,000 years ago, the event that created the creator, the meteor. But it's enormous. Like when you see it, it's like two and a half miles in circumference, 550ft deep. And you drive by it and you're like, wow, what if that thing were to hit somewhere today in your civilization? Yeah. But anyway, hats off to Royce cafe. They're still around today. And back in the day they had 70 people that work there. Yeah. At its height, when route 66 was swinging. When I was in there, I got a milkshake that was like two dudes in there. Yeah. And hats off to still going because there's even parts of Route 66 are just gone. Yes. Like 15%, they say is just not even there anymore. You can still drive 85% of it. Yeah. So let's talk about the heyday. Chuck, in the heyday there was a TV show called route 66 that premiered in 60, right? Yeah. I had a great little swinging theme song. Nelson Riddles route 66. Have you heard it? Not Bobby Troops song. No. Okay. In my opinion, it's way better. It's instrumental, but I listened to it all day today while we were researching. It's a good song. And then the TV show Route 66 was written by this guy who actually traveled the country and got inspiration for the TV show as he was writing it. Yeah. So he was going in like he'd see a VA hospital and then he was writing a story about these two main characters who are like they kind of represent the postwar baby boomer angst of like, America won the war. We have all this money now and there's a lot of disenfranchisement, which led to beatniks and hippies and karaweck and all this stuff. And Route 66 became emblematic of people pushing westward toward La. After the war. Yeah. Easy Rider, that was route 66. Yeah. But the TV show little Factoid, it was filmed in 40 different states. Yeah. And that's like they don't even do that now. So to do that back then was like really revolutionary. I know. And Robert Redford was almost in that too. Did you see that? I did. Didn't make the cut, though. No, he didn't. 40 states for one show. One show. That's route 66. Right? There, Josh? Yes, it is. Are we at the decline, the sad decline? I think we are. Yeah. That same highway plan kind of is what killed it, because after World War II, they were like, we need people working and we need more roads. Better roads. Faster roads. Yeah. Like, we need to go against what Cyrus Avery came up with, which is just we'll circumvent towns. Right. Towns slow things down. Towns have red lights in them. We're going to create these super highways. And that's what happened. Yeah. Eisenhower was inspired by the Altoba and created the Federal Highway Act, finally. Right. And that pretty much killed Route 66. Like I said, I 40 killed a great portion of it, and a lot of it still runs side by side, which is the saddest part. Yeah. Like, you can be on Route 66 and you look to your right and you see people just, like, zooming by you and it's really depressing you suckers. Yeah. Get out of the rat race. And they're looking at us going, you hippie. Right. Following the old Route 66. Actually, I followed Route 66 a little bit in New Mexico when I was living in the Van. Beautiful country there. On Route 66. Yes. Historic Route 66. Red rocks. Yeah. That's a lot of the only way you can find Route 66 these days are historic Route 66 markers. Because you're saying I 40 killed it. Yeah. Not only did you say it was probably responsible, I 40 was completed in 1984, and in 1985, Route 66 was officially decommissioned. So it doesn't appear on any maps. They basically said you're not a highway anymore. No. Which is really sad. Yeah. So if you want to drive Route 66 or the portions that you can drive, you need to get a special map these days, and thankfully they make them. That shows the old trail, the old highway, and all the little kitschy cheesy things you can see and do along the way. Yeah. So, Chuck, one of the things you can see is a statue, right? Yeah. In Foil, Oklahoma. Right. Do you know about this? Oh, I love this guy. There's a guy named Andy Payne, and he is the guy who the statues of okay. Back in 1928, he won the Transcontinental foot race. Oh, that guy. Yeah. This guy was part Cherokee. He was from Oklahoma and he ran from Los Angeles to New York in a foot race and won 3400 miles. He won a $25,000 price. And this is 1928. So that's a substantial amount of money. Yeah. I would probably run that for $50,000 today. I can only imagine. I didn't do the math. Like in New Jersey. He'd quit. Yeah. You're not part Cherokee, though. No, I'm not. It's in his blood. I'm part chocolate. Are you really? No, because I am. No, you're not. Yeah, like, way very small part. Isn't everybody? Yeah, I think so. Mr. Pain ran from New York to La. To New York in 573 hours, which is 23 days. Right. But to make it 3400 miles in 573 hours, he would have had to have run an average of 6 miles an hour for 23 straight days without stopping. Right. So God knows how fast he was running because he had to sleep at some point in time. Yeah. Right. But this guy, if you ask me, he deserves not only the $25,000 yeah, I think I said $50,000 earlier, didn't I? So that's about it. Yeah. I think a lot of Route 66 is on the Registry of National Historic Places, and they're trying to preserve as much of it as they can, thanks to a bill that President Clinton signed. But it's also on a list of what was that other list it was on? Basically saying it was endangered. Yeah, the endangered species list of highways. Of highways. Well, the problem was, it wasn't like Eisenhower was like, wow, I'm going to destroy Americana. It was route 66 was too busy, it couldn't handle the traffic that it was set up for. Which is the most embarrassing and humiliating experience a highway can have. Really? Yeah, pretty much. Either that or a dead end. I'd say that's pretty humiliating. Poor dead end roads. So that's Route 66, as you were saying, it's still around by a special man. Go check it out and just kind of drop out for a little while. Get your kids six to eight days. Yeah. Chuck, if you want to see any pictures, find out more about this stuff, you can go type Route 66 in the handychurchbar athouseofworks.com which I said I was dropping, didn't I? Yeah. I just don't like the word handy after 235. You don't like the word handy? Not anymore. Just type it into the search bar. The standard normal search bar@housetofworks.com, which is not at all handy. Right. So, listener mail time, huh? Yeah. Josh, I'm going to call this. This is what you get for pledging a frat. Okay. Hey, Josh and Chuck, I listened to the Ghost Prison podcast and found one particular part pretty funny and relevant to something that happened to me. Never been in a Ghost prison or a political prisoner yet, but I have been held captive and tortured with music. This past fall, I pledged a fraternity at a major university. He doesn't reveal like, anything. Of course. That's what those guys did. One night while I was pledging, the brothers had us all show up at this kid's house with the promise of a really good time. That's when I would run screaming. Yes. As soon as we walked through the door, this kid seemed to me like a dummy. As soon as we walked through the door, we were searched, our pockets were emptied, and we were put into a really dirty, dank basement. It was probably about twelve x twelve. One couch for eleven dudes. As soon as everyone got there, they slammed the door, shut off the lights and started playing Mambo no five by Luiga as bad as it Gets. It's as bad as it gets if it doesn't come to mind. Also, Louba, if you listen to podcasts, we apologize, but it's true. And get back to pumping that gas. They had it on full blast from a pretty powerful stereo from about 08:00 p.m. To 02:00 a.m. 6 hours straight of Lubega's song Mama Number Five. We had to raise our voices even to be able to hear each other. At 02:00 A.m., they abruptly turned off the music and shouted go to sleep. We all breathed a sigh of relief and then we tried to go to sleep. After about ten minutes we heard it playing faintly in the distance. I thought it was my mind playing tricks on me, but after about 30 minutes it got gradually and gradually louder, and then it was full blast again and remained on for the next 48 hours with only a ten second break. So Jack, who was in a fraternity, had to endure that for like two days. And the reason he didn't include all this is because that fraternity would be shut down and the university would be sued oh yeah. If this would come to light, because that is wrong. I'm not going to call for fraternity stories. No. What should I call for? Sorority stories. If you have any generic, funny, interesting story, we want to hear it. Wrap it up, send it in an email to stuffpodcast@housetofworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetofworks.com. Want more houseStep? Work? Check out our blog on the housedufworks.com homepage brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's is ready. Are you." | ||
45231760-ba8a-11e8-9ed2-4759707d5631 | Short Stuff: Lemonade | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/short-stuff-lemonade | Ever wonder where lemonade came from? Let’s up the stakes a little, what about pink lemonade? Well wonder no more! Join Josh and Chuck as they (briefly) cover the history of putting lemons together with sugar and water and coming up with something great. | Ever wonder where lemonade came from? Let’s up the stakes a little, what about pink lemonade? Well wonder no more! Join Josh and Chuck as they (briefly) cover the history of putting lemons together with sugar and water and coming up with something great. | Wed, 14 Nov 2018 13:51:17 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2018, tm_mon=11, tm_mday=14, tm_hour=13, tm_min=51, tm_sec=17, tm_wday=2, tm_yday=318, tm_isdst=0) | 12508900 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, and welcome to the Shorty. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. There's Jerry. Let's get things started. Yeah, let's get it started in here. Did you ever have a lemonade stand growing up at all? I believe, but it was koolaid, actually. Who am I kidding? It was Flavor Aid. So you're a cult leader? I think I might have had one at some point, but I very famously grew up in the woods on a street with, like, six houses, so I can't imagine that it would have been on my street because it would have been completely pointless. So your trick or treating just sucked? Well, we had to go other places. Did you have to take a car to go other places? Yeah, I drive over to a friend's house who lived in a big neighborhood that I was so jealous of. That's a good friend to have. I feel like we've had this conversation before, probably. We've had every conversation before by now. Yes. But this is not about Halloween. This is about the origins of lemonade and also of the lemon itself. Yeah. So I did not know this Chuck. We have no idea where the lemon came from. None. We know that it's a hybrid of a sour orange and a citron. So we know that it was crafted by human hands, but we have no idea who did this, where they did it, and exactly when they did it, which I find fascinating. I liked lemons before. Now I'm in love with them. Yeah. And I believe didn't you talk about citrons in the pompeii pompey episode? That's what you were getting there. Right, right. But I didn't realize that they were citrons. Right. You are like those weird big lemons that don't have any juice and are all rind yeah. The size of your head. Yeah, that's about right. But everyone knows you can't get a lot of juice from a citron. So what you need, if you wanted to make lemonade, was a real lemon. And apparently they have traced at least the precursor to lemonade to medieval Egypt, where they made something called Kashkab not Cashkab, the great TV show. Or Kashkari, the guy who handled the tart bailout. Oh, that's right. Kashkari. Fermented barley combined with mint, row black pepper, and citron leaf. And I could see you actually trying to make a cocktail out of this. An ancient cocktail. Yes. I had to look up Roux. It's like a very pretty meadow flower. I'm not sure what it would taste like, but yeah, they had me at fermented barley. Really? Yeah. There's some extra vodka in there, and you're set. I love fermented anything. I love it, man. I'm crazy about kombucha. I love pickles, olives, anything. If you ferment anything, I will eat it. Yeah. Throw an old shoe and a VAT of vinegar, and you'll eat it in a month. If I go I should say when I eventually go to Iceland, I will be trying that fermented shark that's supposed to be, like, the nastiest thing in the world. I will try it because I love fermented stuff. Yeah, no, thanks. There's another thing that came out of Egypt, I think, as well, called katarmazad, and it's lemonade. There's really no other way to put it. And it was made in at least the 10th century. So, again, medieval times in Egypt, it was either created or sold or consumed or all three of those by the Jewish community in Cairo, and they just basically added sugar and lemon juice together to make katar Mazat, which, again, is that's lemonade, and I think earlier than that, honey was probably what people used. But lemons are so tart, you need some sugary agent to cut that and make it drinkable, for sure. But we know that they made something from something like maybe citron, or if not lemon. The first reference to a lemon tree comes from the 10th century as well, in an Arabic book on farming by a guy named Kustus al Rumi, and he was the first to mention a lemon tree ever. So we know that they were around by then. They may have been around for a few hundred years by then, from what I saw, I think northern India, and then it was in Italy by 200 Ce. This is lemons, not lemonade yet. We haven't reached lemonade exactly yet. Yeah. So if you want to talk about what we think of modern lemonade, you need to go to 17th century Europe, where in Paris, in fact, they even have a day, supposedly. August 20, 1630, it made its debut, which was a sparkling version of sparkling water, lemon juice and honey. Yes. Man have you ever added to sparkling water? To lemonade? No, but I drink those things that we used to have here in the office that are so delicious. Surge. No, I can't remember the name. Jolt. It's the one where you peel, like, the foil paper off the top of the can first. Oh, San pellegrino. Yeah, the Pellegrino lemon. I don't drink many of them because they're, like, super sugary and stuff. So good. But they're so delicious. Yeah. And, like, they're blood orange. They're grapefruit. All of them are so good. Yes, you're right. They are pretty sugary, though. And if you read the back of the can, you like, whoa, it's like a Coke. Yeah, exactly. So I got to avoid that stuff. But it's worth it, though. Once in a while, you got to treat yourself. Chuck yeah. So these vendors in Paris would sell the stuff from tanks on their back, and it was wildly successful across Europe because it is so refreshing. And apparently, even in 1676, it was so popular that the vendors got together and formed a union, a lemonade union called the Campania de Lemonade. Nice work. And then eventually, it hit a bigger craze because of a man named Joseph Priestley, probably related to Jason Priestley. I think clearly. We've talked about him in the nitrous oxide episode. Yeah. He invented the thing that made carbonated water, I guess. Was that before Mr. Schwepp? Yes. Okay. No, maybe contemporaneously. Yeah, I think he was around the same time he was in the late 18th century, maybe mid 18th century. But yeah, Schweb came up with his thing in the 1780s. Right. So that made it even more popular with this fizzy version. And let's take a quick break, and then we'll move across the pond to America right after this. All right, dude. So we've made it across to the United States. What a journey. By the 18th century, lemonade all over America. And again, people are adding, like, sparkling water or soda to lemonade, which I want to encourage. It's so good. And by about the time of the late 19th century, lemonade, it was pretty popular. People liked it, and the temperance movement actually clamped onto it and said, this is a really good alternative to liquor. You want some liquor? Forget about it. Just drink some sparkling lemonade, and you'll be as trashed as you want. Yeah. Especially if you enjoy it in its best form, which is to add liquor. I think the temperance movement was like, don't do that. Yeah, it was apparently sunkissed even back then, which I didn't know it was around back then. They had a slogan that said goodbye to liquor. His to lemonade. Yes. And everybody went, that's a lame substitute. They said, do we have to choose? So there was actually a period in the 19th century, 1877 to 1881, where if you were invited to a White House dinner or function or something, you were not going to be served liquor in a flask. You probably get in big trouble because Rutherford B. Hayes, he was the one who signed that executive order, apparently to curry favor with the prohibition party. But his wife was very well known as a teetotaler. She was a big time in the temperance movement. His wife Lucy lucy Hayes, and she was dubbed Lemonade Lucy because people, I guess, wanted to poke fun at her for her beliefs, and that wasn't a very good job. And she sighed and said, well, I guess it's better than Liquor Lucy. They said, we hadn't thought about that. So I didn't know that lemonade had a circus connection, did you? No, I had no idea that this was a thing. But apparently lemonade, and especially pink lemonade has a circus connection in that it came from, at least in 1879 from West Virginia's. Wheeling Register newspaper told a story about how the circus turned lemonade pink. And there are a couple of different many different versions, but the two stories that stuck of how this happened, one is sounds like it could be delicious, and one is really gross. Yeah. So one is found in a 1009 obituary in the New York Times for a guy named Henry E. Alex. And this would have happened years and years before because he ran away as a boy to join the circus. And this story is that he accidentally dropped some red colored cinnamon candies into a VAT of lemonade and just said, well, I'm not going to throw this away. And he sold it as pink lemonade and people loved it. I bet that's good. That's what I'm thinking, is that and what are the little cinnamon candies that we ate when we were kids? Cinnamon candies. Do you remember their name? They were, like, right next to the lemon heads. Yeah, red Hot. Yeah, red Hot. Good job. The other one I remember is Alexander the Grape. The other I remember is Boston Baked Beans. Yeah. Which are not actually beans, they're nuts. They're candy coated peanuts. Such a weird name. It is. Have you ever had Boston Cottage cheese? It is not that good. But this pink lemonade, I bet with a little hot cinnamon, I bet that's a pretty delicious thing to drink. It could be, sure. Like today, when you make pink lemonade, it's usually like red food coloring or something like that. But back in the day, after pink lemonade was created, what's Dr. Kellogg's name? The guy from Battle Creek. No, I can't remember his first name. Well, he came up with a recipe that uses, like, either grenadine or cranberry juice or something like that to make it pink and just kind of slightly alter the flavor. Right. The other origin story, though that is gross, that I mentioned was from 1857. This is when a circus concession worker was in a big hurry to make a batch of lemonade, grab the first water they could find, which apparently was a wash tub full of pink water from a performer's dirty pink tights. And they used that and people enjoyed it. Well, I don't think they knew what the source was of the pink water. Yeah, that's pretty gross. That is, but either way. So we're going to go with the other one, the Henry E. Alex one. Okay. Yeah, the Red Hots. Agreed. Well, that's it for lemonade, right? Yeah, I got nothing else. Unless actually, should we mention the make lemons out of lemonade origin? Oh, yeah. Good call, man. Yeah. Apparently this was a borrowed phrase by Albert Hubbard in 1915 for an obituary for a humorous named Marshall Pikki Wilder. And Wilder was three and a half feet tall, and he was a world famous kind of household named comedian. And at one point, he didn't want people to be stigmatized, and he said something like, fate handed me a lemon, but I've made lemonade of it. And that's the earliest place that people can find that good for that guy. That's awesome. I got something else. It's a great origin story. Well, I don't either. If you want to get in touch with me and Chuck, you can go to stuffyshaw.com. It's got all of our social media links there and you can send us an email to stuffpodcasts@howstepworks.com. Hey everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime four days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. There's a perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my favorite Murder and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today." | |
How Desalination Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-desalination-works | Why would people want to remove salt from water? To solve the world's water problem, that's why. Learn all about the efforts to desalinate H2O in cheaper and more efficient ways. | Why would people want to remove salt from water? To solve the world's water problem, that's why. Learn all about the efforts to desalinate H2O in cheaper and more efficient ways. | Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:00:04 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2015, tm_mon=3, tm_mday=26, tm_hour=15, tm_min=0, tm_sec=4, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=85, tm_isdst=0) | 34753874 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clarke. There's charles W, Chuck Bryant and guest producer role. So this is stuff you should know. Stuff you should know. Old yeah. Nell's been waiting for that one for months. That's right. Well, you got it, Noel. Finally. How do you feel? He feels great. He just woke me up. You doing okay? I'm doing fine, sir. I think we need more air circulation in this place, in our new little it makes you logie. Makes me logie what's? Logie, Josh. Just mimicked being tired. Yes. Okay. Right. I've never heard that. Is that a real word, logi? Or is it some Internet short for something? No, it's much older than that. Okay. Something. GI. That's first of all you're thinking of. Yeah. I don't know what any of the little Internet shorthand is. I always have to look that stuff up when someone leaves a comment. Have you heard of first of both? No. Instead of first of all, it's now, first of all, what? Just by leading a sentence like first of all, blah, blah, blah. Right. First of all what? Yeah, that's just stupid. I'm with you, Ma'am. Now. I meant more of the acronyms, like FOMO. Yeah, I have to look a lot of those up, too. I never know what those are. We're getting agent. That's right. We think first of all is stupid. We have to look up acronyms. Got to look up FOMO. Yeah. If you're missing out, by the way. Oh, is that what that is? Yeah. Okay. I had to look up that when I was watching Broad City. One of them said that, and I was like, what's? FOMO? I got to keep the old Internet handy when I watch those young kids shows. That show is pretty funny. Yeah, it's my favorite comedy out right now. I think I really enjoy it. I just posted today, in fact, on our Facebook page, a great New Yorker article on ad. I'd be in Alana. Nice. Because you know how the New Yorker does it? They do it great in depth. Yeah. You feel like I never have to read another article again about the ladies abroad. City. When the New Yorker does it, it stays done. I think they're masthead. Is it? Yes, the New Yorker, when we do it, it stays done. I've read a neat New Yorker article from 1999 that was still awesome about this band called The Shaggs. It was a Susan Orlean article at the Orchid Theater, but it was about this family band, a girl band called The Shags from the 60s. I've heard of them who, like, didn't really learn to play their instruments even though they practiced all the time. Their dad, father wrestling. You're going to be a band. He tried to take them to the top as much as he could. He cut a record even. Right? Yeah. I remember reading it that might have been the same article, but super interesting. Our friend Van Nostrin sent us the record. Okay. Maybe that's what got me looking into it. The only problem is he turned it on CD, and our computers don't have CD players. Mine does at home. Oh, good. Yeah. Well, I need you to put it on the cloud. Yeah. Or you can just come over, listen to the Shags. We have a shaggs party. Wait, we're talking about illegal activities. We need to buy the Shagg album. I don't think it's still in print. Okay. Chuck. Yes. Are you familiar with sea water? Yes. You know, there's tons of it out there in the world. That's right. As a matter of fact, Chuckers, 97.5% of all the water on Earth, and that's 70% of the Earth's surface area is water, right? Yeah. 97.5% of that is saltwater seawater. That's right. Which is great. It's good for sailing on, it's good for swimming in. It's good for catching porpoises in, doing all sorts of cool stuff. Right. Porpoise fishing expedition. Right. Yeah. The problem is it is terrible, horrible, unbearable for drinking. That's right. The reason why is because when you drink salt water, it messes with your body's. Homeostasis does this because salt is an electrolyte, just like they talk about in what's that Mike Judge movie that I love that you don't like. Idiocracy. Yeah. Remember they water the crops with Gatorade because it has electrolytes. Yeah. I do not like it. I love that movie. Yeah. It's medium for me. Okay. When you have too many electrolytes or salts, for example, in your body, your body says, hey, cells, you've got a bunch of water. We've got too much salt outside of you, so we need you to release some of your water to return the body to homeostasis. That's right. Well, if you have too much salt, your cells purge themselves with too much water in order to excrete the salt out of your body through urine. Right. And once you do that, you dehydrate, your kidneys malfunction, your brain starts to go downhill, you get brain damage, and you ultimately die a terrible, horrible death from electrolyte imbalance. Yeah. And that's why if you are ever lost at sea, we hope that never happens to anyone, but you do not drink the salt water. It would be very tempting because it's right there. They're not kidding when they say water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink. Yeah. You will die a quicker death if you start drinking that salt water. Fact. This has been, like a problem for a very long time. Humans have lived in coastal areas for long time, even before civilization. Long, long time. Yeah. So as far back as I believe, the Greeks in the second century BC. Wrote down ways of getting fresh water from salt water because it's still water. Sure. You just have to figure out how to get the salt out of the water and one of the best ways, one of the earliest ways, and one of the ways it's still in use, although in much more high tech use. It's called solar still. Yeah, I guess a little bit more in the history. Aristotle in 320 BC was like, hey, we should desalinate water. So wait, that's the zero to 10, 200, 250. So that would be the fourth century BC. Okay, I was wrong. Planty the Elder, which we by the way, is there a younger we just got some beer, some planning the Elder. Yeah. Thank you, dan. It was Dan. Dan. Yeah, dude. Very much appreciated. Dan. Yeah. You can't get that stuff here. No, it's an extraordinarily rare beer dancing some Planet the Elder, so thanks for that. But planning the Elder in Rome also describe seawater distillation and 70 Ad. Alexander of Afrodis also did so about 130 years later. And then there was a French explorer named Jean Delairy. Did you like that? Yeah. Who in 1565 talked about desalination James Cook as well. So it's not a new thing. For many years, humans have been able to look around and say, you want water? There's plenty of it. Let's just figure out a way to make it not salty water. Water everywhere. Unless I'll have a drink. Yeah. Which got me thinking sort of later in the research, like, why is the ocean salty to begin with? And I didn't really know until I looked it up. That's a good question. Yeah. It turns out that salt from the ocean comes from rocks here on Earth. Okay. It's not just out there in the ocean. What happens is it rains, and then it falls on the land, and it contains carbon dioxide from the air, and that makes the rain slightly acidic. So when it hits the rocks, it's going to break down that rock sum, creating ions, which we've talked about chemical particles that are charged. Yeah. Because they're missing an electron. That's right. And these ions are basically just carried into streams, which eventually into rivers, eventually into oceans. And along the way, a lot of them are used up by organisms, but the ones that are not used up or leftover, and 90% of all these ions are sodium and chloride. So, boom. There you have it. Put those two together, you got salt. Yes. And all that stuff flows in the ocean, and that's why you have a couple of stats. 3.5% of the weight of seawater comes from dissolved salts. Wow. And they say some say that if you took all the salt from the ocean and spread it evenly over the Earth's land okay. Just the land, it would be about 40 stories high, 500ft thick. Wow. There's a lot of salt to get rid of if you want to desalinate. And it's all from broken down rock, huh? Yeah. And why is desalination a big deal? Because clean, potable drinking water is a problem in a lot of parts of the world, dude. It is getting to be a problem faster and faster. Yeah. Like, some people say that the future wars will be fought over water, which is really scary to think about. Yes. And for drought, too. It's not just, I'm in a developing country and we don't have access to clean drinking water. Big problem. But places like California suffer a drought. Maybe we should think about building desalination plant. Right. And they have as a result. Yeah. Which we'll get to. First of all, we should say happy World Water Day to everybody. It's. March 22 is World Water day. Oh, yeah. So just think about that while it's March 22. Sure. There's a great need for water. That's the whole reason for World Water Day is to point that out. Supposedly, right now, 700 million people lack access to water. There's a water scarcity, clean drinking water. Yes. And they think that that's going to rise to 1.8 billion by 2025. In ten years, it's going to add another 1.1 billion people to those who face water shortages. Yeah, we talked about that a little bit in our Life Straw podcast from quite a few years ago. But the Life Straw is a single use. Not single use, but single serving. Single well, not single serving. What do you call it? It's just for one person or family? Single person. Personal. Yeah. Heirloom. It's a personal device that you can use to literally drink water. Like out of a river through the straw. Yes. You just put it in the river and it's got filters in it. So it filters out? That's right. It doesn't filter out salt. It has to be used for fresh water. But it filters out, like bacteria, things that disease causing stuff. Correct. Yeah. We did talk about water scarcity. I think we've talked about it in other ones, too, like, why can't we manufacture water? And things like that part of our watersuit? It is, and it's ongoing because the problem is not getting better, it's getting worse. One of the responses to water shortages around the world is what's called virtual water exporting, which is where you and I have a bunch of fresh water and we use it to grow grain, and then we send that grain to a place that doesn't have much water. So they get to use their water for drinking. They don't have to use it for grain. That makes sense. And there's a lot of different things that we use water for that can be exported. It's hard to export water, but you can use it for stuff and save other people from having to use it. Right, because we use a lot of water. We do use a lot of water. Americans especially. Yeah. But you hear stats like, oh, this desalination plant can pump out like 15 billion gallons of fresh water. You think? Man, 15 billion gallons is so much. It's not very much at all. No, it's not a grand scheme. I think 15 billion gallons of water is two thirds of 1% of the amount of water used by humans every day. Yeah. And I think all of the desalination plants online, there's 17,000 of them right now. And that accounts I think that's all of them, from the very small ones to the ones that are also used as part of the fracking process. Right. So it's not necessarily all of those are to deliver water to humans. But yeah, there are that many. So the 17,000 desalination plants online in the world, and they think that could double by 2020, which is pretty good. Those 17,000 are producing 21 billion gallons a day. And remember, 15 billion is two thirds of 1% of all the freshwater used every day. That's right around the world. So it's still sorry for the pun, but a drop in the bucket. Yeah, but things are changing fast. They are. This new one in California, which we're going to talk about later, is the largest in the Western Hemisphere, will produce 50 million gallons per day. On its own, it's pretty substantial. Pretty substantial. So we'll talk about the technology used in this. It's actually kind of old. It needs a little updating right, for that. So, Chuck, there's basically two ways that humans desalinate seawater. Yes. And they've both been around for many decades. In theory, they're pretty good at removing salt from sea water to create fresh water. But over the course of these decades, we found this could be improved. This can be improved. That can be improved, and we'll talk about that later. But this technology, it's been around for a little while is what I'm trying to say. Yes. And the two different main competitors are multi stage flash desalination. Yeah. Sometimes I talk like Barack Obama. Yeah, well, that's a good thing. I'm not getting political. I just mean he's known as a great orator was, Chuck. Was. And the other one is reverse osmosis. Do you remember that poster in elementary school? It was like Garfield laying down on a pile of books, taking a nap, and it said, I'm learning through osmosis. I think I do remember that. I was a big Garfield fan. I think that every time I see the word osmosis. Yeah. I didn't get the joke when I was a kid. And now that I do get it, it's not that funny, but I'm reminded of it every time. Yeah, he didn't understand why it was lasagna. He's on there. Right? Yeah. It's kind of weird to think about now. So the Reverse Osmosis one is the state of the art. That's the one that's used most widely. Yes. And I think that term was coined in the 1950s by the US. Military. I think we're the first ones to start using that process after World War II. Makes sense. It was an Eisenhower creation, probably. Yeah. Like, we're out on this island in the Pacific, our soldiers need some stuff. So let's start a process to buy stuff. I mean, water. Start a process where we can take the salt out of the water all around us. And so they did reverse osmosis. Yeah. And again, we talked about solar stills, right? Yeah. I don't think we described, like, you can do this experiment yourself at your house. Well, and also, if you're ever caught without water, you're stranded at sea, you have a bowl. All you need is a bowl and a glass and you're fine. Yeah. I mean, you can use other things. Like if you were Tom Hanks and Castaway, you could just try and use the things around you to create the same effect. But yes. Go ahead and describe it. Well, you take some sea water, you put it in a bowl. You put an empty glass in the middle of that water. I guess you want to make sure it doesn't float. Other than that, you're fine. Yeah. Put some Saran Wrap over it, poke a hole in the middle of the Saran Wrap so that it's over the center of the empty glass and just set it out in the sun. Boom. Solar still. Yeah. Because the sun will cause the water to evaporate, which means it will go up to the underside of the Saran Wrap, cling to it, and condensate into the glass. Condensed oh, yeah. Into the glass. Right. And what goes into the glass will be fresh water. The salt will be left behind because the evaporation will have separated the two. Yeah. And we're basically describing rain. Right. The rain cycle. But in a glass of Saran Wrap. Exactly. And by Saran Wrap, we mean, like, cellophane wrap, plastic wrap, so wrap. But that's a solar still. That's pretty basic. You can do it on a rowboat. Again, if you have a glass of bowl and some Saran Wrap. Reverse osmosis is something different. That's right. It's actually the opposite of natural. Quite literally. Yes. Because osmosis is natural. Reverse osmosis ain't natural. It ain't natural. That is, when you put salt water on one side of the membrane, semipermeable membrane, and you use pressure to the tune of I think this one in California is, like they said, six times as powerful as a fire hose. Whoa. So serious pressure to move the water molecules through that membrane, basically. And it's like a big filter. It filters out the salt. Yeah. Calling it anything else but a filter is kind of fancy. Yeah. Because I think they said the pores on these membranes are, like, smaller than a human hair. So it's not like your average filtering, you know what I mean? No, it's not. The point is, what you're doing is you're pushing water through memory, and the water can make it through, but the solute, the salt inside of it can't. So the salt is left behind. That's right. And in a reverse osmosis system, and they call it reverse osmosis because under normal osmosis, what you have is something with a low concentration of a solute. Yeah. So fresh water on one side of a membrane and salt water on the other side of the membrane. That water is going to the fresh water is going to move from the area of low concentration. So the freshwater is going to move to an area of higher concentration, the salt water, in order to achieve one of our favorite things. That's right, homeostasis. Exactly. It wants to achieve a balance so that the stuff on either side of the membrane will be equally salty. Right. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Okay. Reverse osmosis is the opposite. So if water naturally wants to go from low concentration to high, with reverse osmosis, you're going from high concentration to low. Yes. And that's just, again, another way of putting it, of saying you're filtering the salt from the water by pushing the water through a membrane with a lot of pressure via a lot of pumps. Yeah. And you're running it through a lot more than just one membrane. Oh, sure. Yeah. Great. So that's reverse osmosis number one and not number one in ranking it's number one in my book. Is it? Sure. See, I'm a multi stage flash guy. Are you sure? Why not? All right. That uses heat. If you've heard of flashing, like flash frying or something, it basically means to do something cooking wise very quickly. Right. So flashing in this case is bringing water to a boil really quickly. And multi stage means you're going to do it in different stages multiple times. So the name makes sense. Yeah. So basically what you're doing is you're going to boil this water super fast, many times, and each time this happens, water vapor is going to form and you're going to have fresh water there, and then the salty brine is left over to be disposed of. It's like making a solar still. Like a flash boiled solar still over and over again. That's right. So, yeah, multi stage flash is like a super hot solar still over and over again. That's right. Each time you collect that evaporated fresh water, leaving the salt or behind. Sure. There's some real issues with both of these. Right. As simple as they are. Yes. And one of the cheap ones is that if you take a bunch of salt water right? Yes. And you either filter the fresh water out of it or you boil the fresh water out of it, there's still something left, and that is salt, and you're probably not going to get all the water. So what you have is called brine. Yeah. And if you compare Brian to seawater, brian is even saltier than seawater. The reason why is there's not more salt than there is in seawater, there's just less water. So it's like an ultra concentrated form of seawater. Well, you're not going to do anything with this except try to put it back in the ocean. Once you do that, you have a big problem because you kill a lot of the sea life. Yeah. Basically, it's heavier, so it settles down on the bottom. And so the things that they're trying now to combat that is one diluting it with a bunch of other water. Yeah. I think a five to one ratio is what they are suggesting at this point. And they're not saying, like, oh, we'll just use some of the fresh water we just distilled out. That wouldn't make any sense. They're using things like industrial or agricultural wastewater right. That they were just going to pump into the ocean anyway. Exactly. So mix it with that brine diluted out, and it's not going to be as bad for the environment. They're also doing it gradually now much slower, which also helps. They are strategically placing it in the ocean in places where it is more apt to disperse very quickly. It's a very strategic placement. I think in Australia, they try to rerelease it to the tune of 160 to 250ft away. You won't tell any difference in the water salt concentrations. And then the last thing that they're trying to enforce whenever we build these new plants is to bury these pipes and actually do it under the sea floor. Out of sight. Yeah. I mean, out of sight. In other words, it's not being released directly into the water. It's being released into the sand under the water. And then I think the sand actually acts as a filter as it disperses. Got you. But that's a lot more expensive as well, to bury these pipes. Right. So, Chuck, dealing with Brian is just one challenge that desalination engineers have to deal with plenty of other ones that popped up over time and come up with some pretty cool solutions or ideas for solving some of these problems. We're going to get into that right after this. So, Chuck, when you put sea water through reverse osmosis or multi stage flash, you end up with Brian, and you have to figure out what to do with that. Brian. Yeah. There's some other problems, too, with Desalination. For one, it's expensive. It is. Apparently, they measure water on the scale of things like desalination plants in something called what is it? Foot acres. Foot acre. And a foot acre is, like, 325,000 gallons. And a foot acre is about the amount of water to American households of five people using a year okay. To deliver desalinated water, at least for the major plant that they're building at Carlsbad, California. Yeah. It's going to be about $2,000 per foot acre. Yeah. And we've seen ranges and other articles from other plants averaging 800 to 1400. This one's a little bit on the high side. Yeah. But what they're doing is selling it back to the city at a rate of $2014 to $2,257 per foot acre, depending on how much they are buying at a time. So basically, that's how they paid for this thing in California because they're super expensive to build these plants. They got a 30 year contract agreeing to buy at least 48,000 acres, acre feet per year. Sell bonds on that and now they can open their plant. Okay. But the problem is, and the reason a lot of people are upset about this is they're like, it's going to start costing more and more. And like, what happens then? I don't know. I guess people pay more for water. Well, people are definitely going to be paying more for water. That's been a really criticism for a very long time of water in America, is that it's artificially cheap. It should be way more expensive than it is because there's plenty of places that have lots of water, but there's also plenty of places that are facing drought. And the fact that it's so cheap, people tend to abuse it, don't conserve it as much in places where it's very cheap and inexpensive. So just by increasing the price, there's this school of thought that conservation will kick in just because economics kicks in a little more. Yeah, there's some price comparisons here with this new one in California. The 2000 foot acre or an acre foot, I think we had that backwards, is double that of no, we had acre foot. It's double that of water obtained if you built a new reservoir to recycle wastewater. Yes. And it is four times as much as obtaining what they call new water from conservation methods. So water efficient toilets rebates paying for farmers to install, like drip irrigation. And that's conservation four times as expensive, four times more expensive than that, than the conservation efforts that you want to try and push through. One of the reasons it's so expensive is because, especially with reverse osmosis, you said that they were using pressure that exceeded fire hose pressures. Right. Six times, yeah. Okay. That takes a lot of energy because you start out with intake pipes, which again, present their own problems because they suck in lots of sea life. So there's an immediate and deleterious effect on the sea life by sucking in seawater. Right. So you're sucking in seawater under high pressure. You're pumping it through sand and charcoal pretreatment. You're pumping it through these membranes, series of usually more than 1000 membranes over a very long distance into this treatment plant where it's further treated. All this requires a tremendous amount of energy. Right. And when you're desalinating seawater in particular films, back tend to build up on the membranes, which means your pumps have to work harder, which means more energy is required to pump that water through, which means the costs rise. That's right. The environmental impact rises because it's getting energy probably from a coal fired power plant. So you have this new huge desalination plant that wasn't there before, that's increasing your carbon dioxide emissions. So there's an economic cost. There's also an environmental cost with reverse osmosis plants as they exist right now. Yeah, I've got a stat on the energy required. This one in Carlsbad, California, which is just north of San Diego, it uses 38 energy per day, and that is enough to power 28,500 homes a day. A day that wasn't there before. Yeah, it hasn't gone online yet. When it does in 2016, it will be like adding how many 28,500 homes worth of energy per day. That's a lot. Yeah. It's great to try and provide because California is doing it specifically for their drought issues. But as we said, even at 50 million gallons a day, it's just a fraction of the problem. And there's a lot of people, critics saying we don't need to be putting our money in these things. They have examples of ones that were built. There was one in Santa Barbara that was built in 1991 that cost 34 million to build. And after they started raining again, basically they shut it down. Right. Australia had spent 10 billion on six of these because of their drought in the those are shut down now because it started raining again. And basically they're like, it's costing way too much money to make this water now we don't need it. Right. Well, it's the same thing as like, solar power, wind power. When oil gets really expensive, then the investment in that seems smarter because comparatively speaking, the output of solar power, wind power, isn't as expensive as that expensive oil. Right. When the price of oil drops, that solar power output seems really expensive by comparison. And so investment goes away from it. But what you don't want to have happen and what they're worried about in California is they're going to build several of these at the cost of like a billion apiece, and they get a lot of rain in five years. And then all of a sudden these things are just sitting there. Yeah. So I get the impression I think it actually says in the San Jose Mercury article you sent that this Carlsbad desalination plant outside of San Diego is going to basically be the litmus test for the rest of the state. Yeah, it's a really big deal. Right. So it does well, either California will say, yes, desalination works, and let's start investing in this, or you're going to say, no, this doesn't work. It has too much of an environmental cost, the water's too expensive, it just isn't what we need to do. We have to figure out some other stuff. And it's all coming down to this one plant in 2016. Yeah, pretty much. But there's been other success stories throughout the world. The Middle East has a lot of them. Yeah. Saudi Arabia is a leader in desalination. So too is Israel. Australia knows what they're doing. Aruba had, at the time it opened the largest productive desalination plant in the world. So there's a lot of desalination going on. So even if. California decides to abandon it. There still needs to be an investment in making these things more energy efficient or environmentally friendly or coming up with new kinds of desalination technology altogether. But whether or not California goes forward with it that's right. It all hinges on the poseidon, I think is what they're calling it. What? The plant. Right. For California. Even if that doesn't happen, other plants around the world demand that we need to make this better. Yeah, absolutely. Because people need water. So let's figure out a way to get it cheaply and with small environmental impact. Okay. That's right. Wasn't there I think a lot of efforts are being made to to invest in one, like sort of like the light straw, but not like a gravity fed, family sized desalinator instead of these really expensive ones. Yeah. Huge desalination plant. Or do you need like a bunch of smaller portable desalination units? Yeah, like a unit that will take care of a village, let's say in a developing country. Why not? Yeah. It's pretty interesting. It is. For some reason, water is always struck me. It's very interesting. Every time we do an episode like this, I'm like, man, this stuff gets me. It's a commodity that is becoming more scarce, which is scary to think about because it's such a basic thing that every human needs. Yeah. It's not like, well, I mean, things would go bad if we ran out of oil, too, but it's not like water. Yeah. I mean, like, society would collapse in civilization with such oil lives. Not everyone's going to die directly yeah. From a lack of oil. We'll die from murder. Right. Over the lack of oil. Yeah. If you want to know more about water, just type that magic word into the search bar, how Stuff works, and it'll bring up just a plethora of really interesting articles. And I said, search bar in there. So it's time for listener mail. Yeah. I'm going to call this brave email from a young person about depression. It's really neat. Hey, guys, my name is brooke and I'm from barrier, kentucky. Absolutely love your show. I think you're both extremely intelligent and inspiring. I don't know about that. I've learned a lot about various topics while listening to your show and can't get enough. I wanted to email you guys because I wanted to get a message out to as many people as I can. I am 15 years old. I've been hospitalized three times for depression. The last time was because I attempted suicide by overdosing on Tracidone. I was aware but hyperventilating when my mother found me on the bathroom floor, called 911, and an ambulance took me to the local hospital, and then I was sent to a facility after recuperation for depression for a little over a week and did not get discharged until Christmas Eve. The day I attempted suicide was the day I turned my life around. Though since then I've been doing amazing and have come to the realization that harming myself was not the way to go. So I wanted to tell anyone and everyone that suffers from this kind of depression to know that there is hope. And I wanted to start publicly speaking about my experiences to hopefully try and motivate others to have the same epiphany I did. I would really appreciate it if you guys read this on the air during the podcast. Thank you from Brooke. So, Brooke, that is a very brave thing to do. Yeah. Thanks, Brooke. As a 15 year old, and really, for any age to be so forthcoming about your struggle and to try and help people out. So thanks for that. Yeah. Thank you. If you want to send us a letter, an email, you want to say hi, you want to share your story, anything like that, especially if you think it'll help other people, you can tweet to us. If it's a really short story at Syskpodcast, you can post it on Facebook.com, STUFFYou know, you can send us an email to stuffpodcastohouse workshops.com. And, as always, join us at our home on the Web. It's stuffyshero.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseofworks.com." | ||
Is there treasure on Oak Island? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/is-there-treasure-on-oak-island | Off Nova Scotia, the tiny spit of land called Oak Island has been host to waves of treasure hunters for more than 200 years. Some of them lost their lives in the search for a treasure reputedly buried in a deep pit. But is anything really there? | Off Nova Scotia, the tiny spit of land called Oak Island has been host to waves of treasure hunters for more than 200 years. Some of them lost their lives in the search for a treasure reputedly buried in a deep pit. But is anything really there? | Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:59:40 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2015, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=17, tm_hour=16, tm_min=59, tm_sec=40, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=48, tm_isdst=0) | 35137494 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W, Chuck Bryant and Jerry. So this is stuff you should know. How dear. Okay, so you're no discotion accent? No, sir. What was that? Just a howdy. It did sound funny, though. That was my Heathall version. We talked about he hall. You love the show, didn't you? No, I never really watched it. Yeah, I'm thinking of my other podcast cohost. Yeah. Really? I didn't watch. He hall much. Yeah, I did. I was from the south of Toledo. Thought that was like Yoko stuff. No, I mean, it was on every once in a while. It just passed by. Right. What was a mini pearl? She had the hat with the price tag on sale. That's all anyone started there. And then there was some guy with the banjo, I think. Sure. I think this is one of the most off requested shows. Oak island. Yeah. I didn't really know much about it, but it seems like every other week someone is saying, Oak Island, guys, do Oak Island. Yes. We're going to do Oak Island. We want everybody to be quiet. That's right. That's what we're doing. Did you know much about this ahead of time? No, not at all. I did. It's one of those things like you hear about and you hear a little more and you don't really dig in. Sure. The whole thing is just kind of this neat legend that's kind of out there. Yes. I don't know how I missed it. And then once you start digging in, you're like, oh, I understand. You say that was a skeptical tone. Well, I think this is one of those cases where there's no treasure. I don't know. There's some weirdness there are some things that make me say, this is very odd, but I also understand the skeptical point of view. Sure. What I've just kind of demonstrated is a little bit of a middle of the road approach to Oak Island, which is unusual. Most people approach Oak Island either as true believer, treasure hunters, or total skeptics. Right. Like, there's not a lot of middle of the road. It's a divisive island. As far as islands go, it's only like 100 and something acres. It's not a big island. It's off the coast of Nova Scotia. 140 acres. Yeah, that's not big. Yeah, but for as small as it is, it's pretty divisive. Yeah. I don't see what the big deal about being skeptical about a buried treasure. Who cares if you're a skeptic? You have to poopoo everything. Absolutely. Anything that's even remotely frivolous has to be squashed. But this isn't even like supernatural or anything. I guess there's the curse thing. Yeah. That's new, though. That's all TV. That's not even lower, from what I understand. Oh, really? New. It's like literally just a media creation, like strictly from the TV show that before that. I mean, people didn't really see it as a curse. There's just buried treasure on Oak Island. Yeah. And if it's the 1008 hundreds and you're digging for things, there's a good chance you might die. Yeah. It's dangerous. It is. Doesn't mean it's cursed. I read this really great article written in 1965 by Mildred Restaurant yeah. From the New York Times. No, this was in, like, Auto magazine and it was written by her. Yeah. I read one. It might have been the same one. I wonder. It was, like, within a very short time of her husband and son dying, I thought, wow, this lady is really composed. But then I read a little further and found out that Mildred Restaurant and her husband Robert, who moved their family to Oak Island so Robert could hunt for the treasure in 1959, I think, started out, they met because they were both circus performers with nerves of steel who rode motorcycles in a huge globe sphere. While he would go, like, upside down and she would go side to side, and they would miss each other hundreds of times in an act. Yeah. And now after that, I was like, oh, yeah. This lady, she's as tough as nails. Yes. Have you ever seen one of those acts? Sure, I have. Okay. I just didn't realize that that's what they did. Sure. Got you. Yeah. It seems kind of odd to have that. I thought that was a newer act. No, it's totally fifty s. Fifty s? Really? Yeah. See, I thought it screened seventy s. Oh, it does, too. Yeah, you're right. Sure. Yeah. Evil caneval is why that screens that. All right. So let's dive in here, eh? Well, yeah. The rest of us, when they moved to they were hardly the first people that moved to Oak Island and set up residence there in order to find the treasure. But prior to 1795, Oak Island was just another island. Yeah. It was still just another island. Well, just because of all of the attention that's been paid to it, it's been changed forever. That's true. Prior to 1795, though, it was just like, whatever, there's Oak Island until a local kid from Nova Scotia named Robert McGinnis daniel McGinnis sorry. Decided to go explore. Yeah. And you won't find any two people that agree on these legend stories, even with Daniel McKenna, because none of this stuff was really written down until much later. It's 1795. Nothing was written down in 1795. Nothing was documented until, like, the 1900. Well, Star Trek came along. Certainly things like this weren't documented because he was just a boy. He was 16 years old. He was on a fishing expedition. And as the story goes and we'll just use the most commonly agreed upon story here. Okay. He was just kind of trapping around the island and found, like, a block from a pulley attached to a tree, an oak tree, and then a big sort of cleared out area underneath it where it looked like someone had maybe been digging and rebearing something. Yeah. There's, like, a depression under this tackle block from a pulley. Yeah. It was just cleared out, and he was like, bet you anything there's a pirate stretcher down there. Yeah. I mean, being a 1795 teenager sure. He was like pirates all over the place. Yeah. And it's entirely possible. We're talking the 18th century. We're talking a time when piracy was still very much in the public imagination. Yeah. Berry treasure was a hot thing. Yeah. I mean, there is such a thing. And at the very least, if no single pirate ever buried his treasure, there is a lot of rumor about buried treasure of pirates. Yeah. I think it makes total sense. Sure. You can't carry that stuff around all the time because you get robbed and looted. So you bury that junk, bury it, come back for it later. Right. Make a weird, funny looking map that looks like a sweaty pillowcase and put a big X in the middle of it. Sure. And then put that in a coffee can and then bury that in your backyard. That's right. You got to bury twice because it's so nice. That's the pirate really? Can you say it like a pirate? No, I knew he would do that. All right. So he starts digging. His interest is peaked. He gets a couple of friends, comes back the next day. Anthony Volhan and John Smith. This is likely a pseudonym, you think? Probably. And so they start digging, reportedly go down about 10ft, and found a layer of, like, a platform of oak logs. Yeah. Which is you're not supposed to find that when you dig into a hole under a pulley. No. You're not supposed to know where. First, they found a stone that they took to be man made, like 2ft down and then 10ft down. They found an oak platform. Yeah. And then supposedly every 10ft after that, they kept finding these platforms. And we'll just go ahead and call this the Money Pit. That's what everyone calls it. This main location is the Money Pit because just the first oak platform alone says there's treasure buried here. That's right. So basically, they got down as far as they could for three teenage boys with picks and shovels and said, we're not finding anything and we need help, basically. Yeah. We need to bring in some old timey equipment. Yeah. Bigger tools. Get some old timey funding, and maybe get some old timey other people involved. And they did. But it took, like, nine years before they came back, I think. Yeah. And they filled it back in because they didn't just want to leave a big empty hole there. It's an obvious sign that there's a treasure there. So, like you said, 9 hours later, they did come back with investors. Nine years later. What did I say? Ours. No, I said yours. I will bet you all the money on Oak Island that you said ours. At any rate, it was nine years and they came back informed with some funding from the Onslow Company. And that'll be a common refrain here. And apparently I did some writing on modern treasure hunting, and it's all about the funding. It's just like any business. These dudes have boats and equipment, but they're like, if you want a piece of this action, we need some dough to go out there and find the stuff. It's like selling future contracts. Yeah. Potential treasure. Exactly. And it's not just treasure hunting that does that. Like, lots of archaeological expeditions are funded like that. If your local universities like, we got enough problems as it is, we can't find your dig right. And go to private investors. Sure. Who ultimately, it's still treasure hunting. It's just churched up and called archaeological things. So they come back as the Onslaught Company and dig down deeper this time. And they did find some interesting things, notably things that shouldn't be there, like coconut fiber and charcoal and putty coconuts obviously not native to Nova Scotia, so they're like, someone has put something down here. Well, yeah. Also at the time, coconut fiber was used as a packing material, though, so clearly somebody was using it as some sort of construction material. Wasn't accidentally dropped there. That's right. So legend has it they dug down until they hit 90ft and then found a flat stone with a coded inscription that they could not make sense of. Since then, other people have supposedly translated it to read, 40ft below, \u00a32 million are buried. There is no stone today. There is no rubbing, there is no photograph. No, it's called the famous cipher stone, and it was supposedly lost in, like, 1919, but yeah, there's no evidence. Yeah. And so anything you run across, like in a book or on the web or something is conjecture. Sure, there's no document of this cipher stone, but they do think that something that accounts for the cypherstone did exist at some point, but no one knows for certain exactly what it said. And if you're wondering, \u00a32 million of what I assumed that they meant British currency. Yeah, that would be funny if it was just like \u00a32 million of pirate scat. Right. Coconut husks. So they get down to about close to 100ft and then go home for the day and drink rum, I would imagine, and then come back and it's full of water. And they tried to bail it out, but they were basically like, this is, I guess, this point. It was early 18 hundreds, but we're still screwed. Right. So Robert Mcginnison, what was the name of the company, came back with anslow company, the Onslaught Company. What you just described is the process that people have followed and the troubles that people have run into ever since. And we'll talk about some of the following expeditions because McGinnis troubles didn't put anybody else off right after that. Okay. So, Chuck, something really weird happened to the McGinnis expedition. The second one. Yes. When he grew up, became a man, came back with the Onslow Company and dug down, became a man. They went to bed after drinking a bunch of rum, like you said, and then they woke up, and the pit had filled with water, and it's basically been filled with water ever since. Yes. Which is a problem if you're a treasure hunter. You want dry conditions as much as possible to get to the treacherous water is an impediment. And it became such an impediment that ultimately, Mcginnison, the Onslow company, just kind of gave up. I guess they ran out of funding. Right. Yeah. Which has also been a refrain over the years. Right. You can only dig so long until the person eventually who's funding you say, I'm going to pull the plug. Right. But years later, a question was raised about that flooding. People started to wonder, was that actually an engineered booby trap? Right. And that's become a question among treasure hunters for centuries. On, yeah. Of course, the skeptics will say, no, it is just seawater, because later they found out that it was actually saltwater, and there are other similar underground water tunnels on the island. So they're like, no, this is just going on on this island. And the believers will say, no, it was a booby trap set by the pirates. But the believers in this case have a kind of strange evidence to back up their ideas. So in 1849, after the McGinnis expedition, the second one left many years after the Truro Company, which is kind of tough to say, they showed up to the island to look for the Money Pit, and they started digging again, right? Yes. And when they started digging, they ran into the same problem. The shaft that they dug filled with water. So they started to think, well, wait a minute. Maybe this is purposeful at the very least. Maybe there's some sort of sea caves. And if there's sea caves that are filling this thing up, potentially we could stop up the sea caves, and then we can avoid the water problem and keep digging. So they sent people from the expedition to look all over the shoreline of the island, and they found something really astounding that, from what I understand, still to this day, is the one thing that confounds all skeptics when it comes to Oak Island. They found what can really only be described as a manmade drainage system that basically accepts the incoming tide and potentially funnels the tide to the money. Yeah. So they continue to dig and drill because they were encouraged by finding things they said were metal or maybe even gold on the auger and even more coconut husk. Yeah. So they were like, there's something down there. But like you said, it kept flooding. And this is when they realized it was seawater. And they noticed, hey, it's actually filling up and falling back down along with the tide. Right. So that's when they built a temporary coffer dam to kind of see what was going on. And that's when they found this five finger drain, which there's really no explanation that didn't just accidentally happen. No. And what gives it away is it's 145 ft. Wide and it's about the height of the difference between high tide and low tide. So it's clearly meant to funnel the tide into this drain. There's five drains. They're obviously finger drains. Finger drains are like French drains, basically, and they all connect into one larger drain. But the real dead giveaway was the appearance again of coconut fiber. Coconut fiber was used to keep the sand out of the stone grain. And a layer of coconut fiber on an island off of the coast of Nova Scotia suggests man's intervention. That's right. But what that means, who knows? Again, treasure seekers will say that they put this to keep you from finding that treasure. Right. It was evidence in favor of the idea that the Money Pit is boobytrapped. Yeah. And I think Skeptics will say that. I think there was a theory that there was a lot of weird Freemason rituals going on and maybe they buried some stuff there and not treasure necessarily, but maybe they built this train to keep people from digging into there. Yeah. Modern treasure hunters are like, great, let me find whatever the Mason is buried. Yeah. Even if it's not gold ingots. It could be like the secrets of the Freemason. Yeah. The Ark of the Covenant. Yeah. All right. They said that could be down there. Or the Holy Grail. You want to talk about some of the legends of what's down there? Yeah, we might as well. Okay, so the predominant one that Robert McGinnis initially thought of was that it was pirate treasure because he was a teenager in the 1790s. Right, right. Successive people have come to see the Money Pit. If it is sabotaged like it is and the construction that went into it, it's something that would have had to have been carried out by a group more sophisticated, better funded and better organized than Cat and Kids crew. More sober, at the very least. Yeah, exactly. So one of the rumors of what treasure was buried down there is that the Freemasons buried something or the Knights Templar buried something. Because the Knights Templar, they were like the militant arm of fundamental Christianity in like, the 10th century during pilgrimages, aka the Crusades to the Middle East. Right, yeah. So that means they got a lot of dough over the years, they accumulated great wealth, had a big falling out with the Catholic Church. Of course. Yes. Supposedly they were found worshiping Baphomet, the goat headed breasted Satan. That's sort of like the statue. Right. It's exactly like the statue Oklahoma. Yes. The one that's being constructed by the Satanic Temple right now. Yeah, I put that on our Facebook page. It was very divisive. I can imagine. No surprise. Yeah. I thought it was just a nice, cool looking piece of art, man. It's pretty well done. It looks nice. The night simply has all this dough. They have a falling out with the Catholic Church, for obvious reasons that you just pointed out, and then they buried their treasure. So I guess the Catholic Church wouldn't get their hands on it. Right. But among that treasure, supposedly, is the Holy Grail, which is what the knights were looking for in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Sure. And the Ark of the Covenant, which is what Indiana Jones is looking for in Indiana Jones. No. Raiders of the Lost Ark. Yeah. And so some people have said this is where the Knights Templar buried their treasure. This is where the Ark of the Covenant is. Then other people have said, whatever. The Knights Templar never made it to Nova Scotia. But the Freemasons obviously took over the secrets and protections of the Knights Templar. They're like the modern day Knights Templar society. And they probably buried the Ark and or the Holy Grail. Duh. Yes. And apparently a lot of Masons have been on these excavation teams over the years, which, of course, is evidence that they're looking for their old stuff. It also is entirely possible that there is a rumor among Masons that this is true. Whether it's true or not right. That could have gotten some Masonic adventures to go. Look, another theory that's been thrown out there is that Marie Antoinette, during the French Revolution, got all her jewelry together and gave it to a woman and said, Flee. And she fled to Nova Scotia. And then the French Navy came along and constructed this elaborate system to bury her jewels. Right. There's another little possible theory, and supposedly evidence that backs that up is that the woman who was given the jewels, who was entrusted with the jewels, was spotted in Nova Scotia sometime after that. That's right. What is she doing there? Burying jewels? Another unusual Nova Scotia link is that of Francis Bacon. Yeah, I like this one. So remember Francis Bacon from the Scientific method? He was the guy that really first put that down in written form. Brilliant man. Possibly Shakespeare. It's one of the theories is that he was the real Shakespeare. And the idea is that he hid his manuscripts in the Money Pit on Oak Island. And that seems kind of far fetched, but apparently Francis Bacon owned land in Nova Scotia. Yeah. And he was a preserver of things in Mercury. And supposedly they found flasks of mercury on the island. I don't buy that one because I've always believed that Shakespeare was Shakespeare and not Francis Bacon or his sister or any of the other various crackpot theories about who really wrote that stuff. I like Francisco. You can Shakespeare. You do? Yeah. Just the thought of it, or do you think the evidence is I don't know about the evidence. I don't know enough about it, but I like the thought of it. He seems like a pretty cool dude. So some of the other treasure hunters started flocking there in the mid to late 1800s because that was just a big time for treasure hunting. Yeah. Well, the California gold rush is going on in 1849, which is why the 49 ers are called that. That's right. And I think there's kind of a treasure fever going through the land. That's a good way to say it. Yeah. So the Eldorado Company in 1866 went out there and there were various methods over the years to try and block off the flow of water. They tried digging shafts and tunnels. They tried to divert it, they tried to intercept it. And basically all that ended up doing was causing a nightmare for future expeditions to the point where people had a hard time even finding the original Money Pit to begin with. Right. A lot of the landmarks, I guess you'd call them, were just utterly destroyed. Supposedly. In that article I read from Mrs. Restall, she said that there weren't any more oaks on Oak Island any longer. Oh, no more oak trees. Yeah, because of excavation. Just tore them all down. So it would be very tough to find your way around if whatever directions were written at a time when there were plenty of oak trees that use oak trees as guides. Like, go to this oak tree and turn left. Exactly. Yeah. The excavation has definitely changed the face of that island tremendously. One thing we do have that is tangible, as far as I don't know if you call it evidence or not, because it really doesn't say much, but Frederick Blair in the 1890s came with the Oak Island Treasure Company and he actually found something that still exists that's a little bitty tiny piece of parchment paper, and it looks like a curse of letters. VI are on it, but, I mean, it's small and it really leads to nothing other than something man made. Is there? I don't think anyone's had any conjecture about what that means. Six, maybe \u00a36 billion buried, 600ft down. Right. Who knows? And then the 20th century has seen or saw since. We're in the 21st century now. Successive waves, pretty constant waves of people coming looking for the Oak Island treasure. One of them was a young Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who also was a mason. Yeah. He came along as an investor and apparently always pined to go back to Oak Island to search for the treasure, like it got in his blood. All right, so after this message break, we are going to look at a few more of the things that have been discovered there over the years and what this all means. So, Chuck, I was saying the 20th century saw a wave after wave of treasure hunter come dig and leave Penniless. Sure. One of those people, though. And we also talked about how Oak Island has been utterly changed. Probably nobody changed the topography and geography of Oak Island more than a guy named Robert Dunfield, who was an engineer, I believe, or no, a geologist. And in 1965, he built a bridge a highway. Yeah. Causeway. Yeah. From the mainland to Oak Island. And right after he did that, right after it was completed, he started moving heavy equipment in and just started digging like crazy. Yeah. He got down 100ft I'm sorry, 140ft. Down 100ft wide, and kept everything a secret until 2003. And they didn't find a lot. They found some porcelain dishware from the was that doing there? Could find for sure the early 1600s even. But he, of course, didn't find a lot either, ultimately, in the way of riches, because he kept having problems, despite his machinery, with collapsing caves, heavy rains, more tide water. But he did say there was a cavern under some limestone. He did confirm one of these underwater cavern rumors, right? Supposedly, yeah. Which accounts for potentially a natural formation. If you're a skeptic, if you're a believer, then it just confirms the booby trap thing. Yeah. He finally left after basically he was the guy who demolished the most landmarks. But shortly after he left, a pair of guys who formed what's called the Triton Alliance, david Tobias and Dan Blankenship, they started working, and they actually brought along some high tech stuff for 1970, which was like an underwater camera. Video camera, yeah. It's probably the size of a small car right. That they lowered down there when they drilled a hole, and they called it Borehole ten X and it was filled with water, of course, as all holes in Oak Island do. But they lowered this underwater camera down there and they swore to God that they saw evidence of human remains and treasure chests. That's what they said, whether you're convinced or not. Tobias and Blankenship were convinced enough that Blankenship still lives on Oak Island. Yeah. He became sort of the main guy that remains today as the main guy. Right. And this is 1970 when they showed up. He's still on that island. Yeah. He's old. No, but it was the 1970s when they showed up. And he still lives there. No, that's what I'm saying. He is Agent Wise in his eighty s. I got you. Yeah, he's an old feller. We hammered that out. He's apparently an ornery feller, too, because there was another guy named Fred Nolan, who is a famous Oak Island explorer, where they ran a foul of one another. Apparently, Blank and Ship had a rifle, obviously, in his hand during the argument, and the cops had to come out and take the rifle away. Really? Yeah. And supposedly now nobody is allowed on Oak Island, although I guess you can if you're filming a TV show, except for Dan blankenship, who's the only resident? Well, he's part of the TV show. Okay, so he was like, come on. Yeah. What's that? History Channel, I think. I don't know. Yes. There's a couple of the people that he's working with today, rick and Marty Lagina. I think her brother is from Michigan, and they are the subject of the TV show, which I'll have to check out at some point. Sure, but that's supposedly where the curse came from. Is that show really? Yeah. I did not know that. So it's been a present since last year. Right. Frederick Nolan also is the one who, in 1981, discovered five large cone shaped boulders that, when you look at it above, looks like a cross, and it is forever known as Nolan's cross. What does it mean? Who knows? Maybe the boulders were just sort of in the shape of a cross by accident. Well, Fred Nolan bought five plots of land. Bought them. So he was a resident there and inhabitants there, too. I'm not sure what happened to old Fred Nolan, though. Yeah, I'm not sure. It's a good point. He may have been lost to the curse of Oak Island. So we keep using present tense. It's entirely true. As anyone with History Channel knows. There are still people who are looking actively for the treasure of Oak Island. Right? Yeah. Like, they believe that if you put all the evidence together, nolan's cross, coconut fibers, the finger drains the evidence from blankenship and toe bias the video stuff. Like, if you put all this together, there is evidence that there is treasure down there. Somebody just needs to dig deep enough in the right place, and then bam, they're going to find it. Right? Yeah. I mean, man, they dug so deep, though, and so wide. How much deeper could they have gone back in the pirate days? I don't know. It just seems very unlikely to me there's any treasure there. Well, then you would be in the Skeptics camp, and you would definitely not be alone. Yeah, but skeptic thinking there may have been something buried or some weird thing going on there, but I don't know about treasure. Right. Who knows, though? Skeptics will also say these are natural sinkholes instead of traps, like we said earlier. They will also say things like, there's all kinds of underground caverns around here. There's nothing special. I don't know what they say about finding things like porcelain plates. I didn't see anything like that. But when the stone is lost, this inscripted stone, when there's no evidence really to point to except this tiny piece of parchment paper, right? I don't know. It's pretty flimsy. Well, none of the excavations started to be documented until the 19th century, so all of McGinnis's early work is all based on hearsay and conjecture. It's all up for debate whether he was a teenager was the tackle block for the pulley? Was that added to the story later on? Right? If so, then all of a sudden, that depression under the tree branch just becomes a depression under a tree branch. Right. The pulley was the thing. Excuse my physics joke, but the fulcrum of this whole thing, if you start to look at it on its face, all of this legend, you realize that most of it is just legend. And that the only real physical evidence is that scrap of parchment paper that no one even knows whether that was planted or not. Well, yeah, that's one of the things skeptics often say is that anything you found there could have been planted just to get money to fund the digs. Right. Like, look, we found this parchment and this porcelain plate, and there's some gold dust on our auger. Did we mention the coconut fiber? The coconut fiber again, right. Send us another, like, I don't know, ten milwaukee. Keep digging. Right, so there you have it, oak island again, though, those finger drains are just weird. Yeah, that's weird for sure. It's cool. Who did what there? Yeah, basically, they just need to strip mine the entire island all the way down. There you go. I don't know why anyone hasn't thought of that yet. Yeah, just completely strip it of all its natural beauty till it's nothing left. Sure. And just shrugg your shoulders afterward, say, there's nothing here. Right? Yeah. Go, man. If you want to know more about Oak Island, apparently you can watch a weekly television show on it. You can also type Oak Island into the search bar, how Stuff works. And since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this poison ivy. Follow up from JB God. I have an interesting story about how you can get poison ivy from more than just touching it. When I was eight or so, we lived in California at a big fireplace. One day, we decided to get our own firewood from outside and got a couple of big logs. My sister, we were both at about seven at the time. She and I used the fire to roast marshmallows and makes more. Great night, right? An hour or so later, one of my sisters came into my parents room. Think she couldn't breathe. Her face had swollen to twice its normal size. Her eyes were shut, her throat was barely able to pass air through it. An emergency room trip and a shot or two of steroids later, she was okay. But it took a while to find out what happened. Apparently, the poison ivy had been removed from the logs we got, but the SAP was still in the wood, and when we burned them, the SAP was present in the smoke. And my sister was highly allergic, inhaled it, got it in her throat and lungs, and it blew up her face like a red balloon. Best side note of this, we had passport photos. The next day, we were moving to Germany so her passport pick was a giant, red, swollen balloon face. That's awesome. That is JB in Fortville, Oklahoma. Way to go, JB. That was a good story. You get the blue ribbon for it. And I guess she had that passport photo for a full decade. Unless she just had it retaken. Yeah. Would you live with that passport photo? No. I totally would. I think it'd be funny. Except for the whole it doesn't look like you think that'd be a drag. It would be a huge drag. TSA likes a hassle. Yeah, but I'm well known in my family for making funny faces anytime I have a photo ID of any kind taken right. Just for fun. I've always done it. That is so fun. Emily likes it. You got anything else? No. Okay. Well, thanks again for the awesome story, JB. If you have a great story, you can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can post it on our Facebook page at facebook. Comstuffychnow. You can put it in an email and send it to stuffpodcast athoustuffworks.com. And in the meantime, while you're waiting around thinking of what to say, go hang out at our home on the Web stuffyousteno.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetopworks.com." | ||
a6a1dd52-5462-11e8-b449-230640596415 | Was There A Real Robin Hood? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/was-there-a-real-robin-hood | Is it true that Robin Hood hung out in Sherwood Forest and stole from the rich to give to the poor? No. No, it’s not. Find out the real story in this episode. | Is it true that Robin Hood hung out in Sherwood Forest and stole from the rich to give to the poor? No. No, it’s not. Find out the real story in this episode. | Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:57:20 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2018, tm_mon=10, tm_mday=16, tm_hour=14, tm_min=57, tm_sec=20, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=289, tm_isdst=0) | 47154653 | audio/mpeg | "This July, don't miss an entire summer of surprises on Disney Plus with Disney's High School Musical, the series season three Zombies, three Doctor Strange in the multiverse of Madness, and the wonderful summer of Mickey Mouse. Plus new episodes of Marvel Studios, ms. Marvel and National Geographics. America the Beautiful from the award winning producers of Planet Earth, Frozen Planet and the Disney Nature Films, america the Beautiful takes viewers on a tour of the most spectacular and visually arresting regions of our great nation. All these and more streaming this month on Disney Plus. Summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good, it's Criminal Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Ercart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this chart topping series will have you hooked before you know it. Listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetuffworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. And there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. And there's Jerry over there. We're just horsing around, saying, who's. Actually, I think people might like a little recreet of what just happened. Let's hear it. Jerry said, I need to check levels. We didn't really say anything. And she went, all right, are you ready? And you said, we didn't say anything for levels. She said, I don't need you to say anything. She's like, in fact, I need you to stop talking. Yeah. And then I had to wait until she said, Start talking. She mouthed start talking monkey. Goodness me. Is that where we are? Yeah. How's it going? Good. Before we really get started, Chuck, I want to point something out. I'm not sure if you know this or not. Oh, boy. You have a paper clip holding your glasses together. At first I was like, Is he just storing the paper clip? I thought, no, he's not storing a paperclip. He'd keep that tucked in his cheek if he were just storing it. Like everything else. It's on the arm of your glasses, where your glasses meet the body you see there goes through it's acting as the screw, because the screw came out, and I need my glasses on in order to put the screw in the glasses. Got you. It's quite a conundrum. Were you raised in Oklahoma in the Depression? No way. Because you can get other glasses, dude. That's how busy I am. I can't go by the glasses store. I don't need new ones. I just need someone with tiny fingers. Okay. And good vision. Someone from Oklahoma could probably help you out. And this works so well. I stuck the paper clip in there, bent it around, and I kind of like it. It's a handsome look. I think you're going to start there. Well, I like it. Oh, boy. Thanks for playing along. Sure. So we're talking today. The reason I said who's because we're talking Robin Hood. Is that from Robin Hood? No, it's actually from the movie Role Models. The Paul Rudd movie. I like that movie. It's good. I saw it the other day again, good. Dumb fun. Yeah, I love it. You know, he like, wrote that. Rudd? Yeah, he's great. I like Stiffler. Yeah, he's great in that, too. His little buddy in the movie or whatever they call him. Ronnie. Yeah, he was, buddy. Ronnie. Yeah, he's amazing. I expect great things from that kid. At least I hope so. Well, anyway, I was watching Role Models the other day, and one of the LARP guys comes up and goes, who's. Like, I always thought it was haza. Yeah. Trickling always says it when you dress up like the King of the Renaissance Festival. Yes, those LARP scenes are funny, too. Right. But the guy comes up and says, who's off? So I was like, I can't wait to incorporate that somehow. Robin Hood. Here we go. Prince of Thieves. Yeah. And the reason why that would work is because the LARPers were set in the medieval era, and everyone knows Robin Hood set in the medieval era, but actually that's totally incorrect. Yeah. Most of the time when you see Robin Hood, it's set in the Tudor era in England, almost invariably in Sherwood Forest, which is a wooded area and about right smack dab in the center of England. Everybody running around is acting like it's the 1400, maybe the 1005 hundreds. And that's all well and good if you're making a Disney version of it, reality just goes right out the window. Right. It's Disney. It's a cartoon, for goodness sake. Everybody lighting up. I love that version. It's entirely possible. And that's a good one. There are historians who believe that there was a real Robinhood, and they have spent a lot of time and effort trying to track down exactly who it might be, exactly when he might have lived. And my money and a lot of historians place it right around the beginning of the 1200, the 13th century in England, long before the tutors were ever even a twinkle in anybody's loins here's. My bet is that Robin Hood is an amalgam of a few dudes, that the writers of history have filled in some blanks, and then the writers of literature just, like, ran with it. Yeah, that's my take on it as well, is that a few people served as role models for it. Role models? I didn't even plan that. Paul Rudd is everywhere. But there are some people who still think that there was no such person at all, or maybe even persons. It might have been wholly created, sure. But then on the opposite side, there are some people near few and far between, from what I can tell, who believe there was a single person named Robin Hood who did most of this stuff and was the basis for these legends. They're called people who want to sell books. They're like Robin Hood case, clothes don't fit stamp. There's like a whole spectrum that you can just walk right up and say, I believe this, and you're as right as anybody on the Robin Hood train. Yeah. So if we go back in time, I think everyone knows that early historians had a lot of blanks and they weren't the most reliable narrators. No, because they would just fill them in with stuff they made up. Yeah, because I don't know if they realize that early on. I'm speculating here that they were recording history. Yeah, they're like recording history. I think it was more like, hey, this is a good story. And I don't know, in 500 years people are going to be taking this as written history and spinning yarn. In this case, I don't think that's correct. I think that they considered themselves actual historians who were getting to the bottom of history, but they had a worldview. And specifically with Robinhood, it was, I think, 15th century or 16th century Scottish historians who were the ones who really kind of gave us the image of Robinhood that we had drunk the robbing from the rich to give to the poor, the chivalry, a lot of that stuff. Anti establishment. Yeah, that actually was part of it before they had to kind of figure out how to make that one work because it didn't make sense to them at the time. But they basically said, here we've got these ballads that were written in the 1300, the 14th century, and we think they're historical, so we're going to try to put this in context. And the stuff we don't understand, we're just going to make up, but we're going to pass it off as real. So it's one of those great things, like with fairy tales. We know all these fairy tales and you remember we did those episodes on it. Yeah, those are good. But if you strip away the stuff that's been added over the years and get to the bare bones, it's way darker than just child abuse. A lot different. Yeah. And a lot different than what we know and love, as in this case, the Robin Hood legend. Right. So if you want to look at literature like you mentioned, these ballads, the actual cannon for Robin Hood, the very first mention is one called Piers Ploughman, P-I-E-R-S. Like Piers Morgan. Exactly. From William Langland about 1377. And then there were a host of other ballads. And this is all Middle English. I think so is that what you would call it? I don't know. Maybe even old, like Wise for vowels and things like that. Like Canterbury Tail stuff. I really don't know if it's middle or old English. Either way, it's barely legible. It is a little. And that is spelled L-Y-T-Y-L-L which is great. A little jest of Robin Hood. Was that like Sean Connery? Maybe? Dope guests of Robin Hood. That's straight up, says Robin Hood. And then a few more. Robin Hood in The Monk. Robin Hood in the potter Robin Hood and the Guy of Gisborne and Robin Hood in the Temple of Doom yeah, that one was super dark. It was very dark. The author just broken up with his girlfriend, and I think that's what brought us to PG 13 rating. It was, I'm not mistaken, gremlins. So whether or not you believe this stuff basically has to do with whether or not these early songs you think are just songs or a matter of history historical record. Yeah, that's how before people commonly wrote stuff down, like at this time, when this stuff was being written, the people who are writing it were monks. Those are the only people educated enough to write. But people still pass stories down, and they did it through oral histories. So it's entirely possible that these early ballads were created to commemorate a person or people or events or something like that, and then just over time, we lost. Wait a minute. Are these fiction or nonfiction? But you're right, that's the divide. When it comes to approaching Robin Hood from an historical advantage, are these just totally fiction? Right. Or are they meant to commemorate something that actually happened? Yeah, and it's easy through today's lens to dismiss these things as songs. But back then, like you're saying it's like, what better way to remember history than to set it to come on, Eileen. Why that, man? Why did you just do that? It's a great song. It was the first thousand times I heard it. Oh, you don't like anymore? That's one of the problems. It's like they just made ten songs in the that's all you ever hear. There were so many more songs burning down the house. It was once a great song as well. I'm going to see David Burn tonight. Oh, cool. Thomas. So you won't listen to. Come on, Eileen. But you'll regurgitate the what's up, budweiser? Guy. That was from the 90s. I've heard that less frequently. What connection did I hear recently from the guy who directed those? I think he's directing movies now or something. The guy who directed those commercials? Right. You've never heard of this movie director, but you are the right member. These guys. That was the gist of it. I'm surprised those ads never got, like, a full movie themselves. It was definitely that era. Oh, for sure. Remember the cavemen from the Geico ads? They had their own TV show for did that ever come out? Yeah, like for like three episodes. Yeah, this totally could have been a TV show. Call it. What's up, guys? Right? What's Happening was taken all right. So where were we? We were talking about the talking heads. Let's talk about the forest. Well, the reason we're talking about the forest is because while the character may or may not have existed, the stuff in the ballads definitely bears a strong resemblance to actual historical events. Yeah, right. Yeah. The forest is significant here because at the time, in the Middle Ages, how much had a percentage of two thirds of the land in England was forest land. Right. And it was sort of a place where it was a place where people could go hide out. So that's where it gets this sort of outlaw lore. It was a legit place for outlaws to go do their business. Right. But it was also an outlaw hideout because just by hanging out in the forest, you were by definition an outlaw because of those forest laws that were super unpopular among people. You know, forest law means I don't know. I'll tell you, what happens in the forest stays in the forest. Yes. Unless somebody comes out and blabs about what goes on in the forest. Do you remember being a kid, though, hanging out in the forest? In the woods, like playing? I grew up on two acres in the woods. I was always in the woods. It's its own place. It is. So you can imagine, like, your whole country is like that and like, that's how you're living. You're just an outlaw with your buddies hanging out, having a campfire every night, eating roast pig. Are you fine wandering around? Yeah, but it was weird because the king could like, that was his land where he could go hunting and have his dudes hunting, but it was also lawless in a place to hide. It was weird. There was a lot going on in the forest. Right. So the reason why you were just by definition and outlaw if you were hanging out in the forest is because the king had these forest laws that said, all this forest, this is mine. Yeah. This is for my hunting, my friend's hunting. And that's it. If you're hanging out in the forest, you're breaking the law. And it was like a big law, and there were serious punishments, for sure. So just being in the forest made you an outlaw. But even more than that, the people who went and lived in the forest weren't like, on the run necessarily from the king and the king's officials. They were, like, at war with the king and the king's officials. This is a time where some schmo like you or me can wage war directly with the king of England and get him to come fight us, basically. And that's kind of what happened. And that's why the forest was a backdrop for all of the Robin Hood legends from the beginning of the ballads up to the Robin Hood men in tights. They were all set in the forest. And because this happened, the forest laws were passed, and everyone was really upset about it. So whether it's a metaphor or whether they're saying, like, the king did this and we need to commemorate it, or they were just building a foundation for why this action was taking place, the forest plays a huge role. Yeah. And there's a new Robin Hood movie coming out. No, it's crazy. It seems like every couple of years, this just won't die. They're going to do a new version of it, and there's a new one with the kid from Kid and Play. Yeah, with kid from kitten play. He's awesome. He does that, like, jump through remember he'd hold his foot and then jump through the I used to can do that. No, I never could. Yes. I would just fall flat on my face. Young Chuck was a little more fleet of foot. It's got the kid from the Kingsman. You know that guy? He plays Robin Hood and Jamie Foxx is Little John, I guess. But of course, this one, he's shooting literally, like, five arrows at once, and they all managed to go in different directions somehow. Is it a comedy? No, it's real. Okay. Like, there's guys coming at them from different directions. Yeah. So he'll put, like, three arrows and shoot them at the same time, yet they'll all spread out like a machine gun fire or something or shotgun. And for some weird reason, he's going yeah. With every shot. And then I was looking up movies today, just while we're on that, and I totally forgot there was a Russell Crow version that I didn't even see. I think that was just Robin Hood, right? Robin Hood from 2010. Yes. No, that's not the one. There's one that, like, historians are like, this is about as close to accurate as we've gotten. Well, I looked up on the Russell Crow, and then I think the deal is that one is a prequel of sorts, because it's like the wars before he became Robin Hood that rob's and gives to the poor. I would go check that one out. The one that I was thinking of is from 1991. It was directed by John Irvin, starring Patrick Bergen. Remember him? Oh, yeah. And, uma, thurman that's the one that historians are, like, really the best out of all of them is not Kosner. I like that movie when it came out, I'll admit it. I saw JFK on the plane to Australia, and I got to tell you, I became a Costner fan with that one all over Again is a great actor. You fell in love all over again. Yeah, well, I specifically avoided Draft Day so I could leave the door open to be a fan again. Yeah, that's funny. All I remember was that preview for Draft Day. That's all I thought, too. I just remember that they built up in that preview. It's about the NFL draft. Something so big. I can't believe that happened. I was like, what, did they kill somebody in the draft room? No, they drafted. Calling Kaepernick. Kaepernick. That's so you. Kaepernick. Whatever. Let's take a break. I feel like we're off the rails and we're lost in the forest. We'll come back right after this. That's what? If you were a major transit system with billions of passengers taking millions of trips every year, you aren't about to let any cyber attacks slow you down. So you partner with IBM to build a security architecture to keep your data network and applications protected. Now you can tackle threats so they don't bring you to a grinding halt and everyone's going places, including you. Let's create cybersecurity that keeps your business on track. IBM, let's create learn more@ibm.com. Hey, Chuck, it's summer, which means school is out, sun's shining, the daylight lasts longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story, isn't there? There sure is. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, you can tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right Media. That's right. Part true crime and part comedy, My Favorite Murder takes you on a journey through small town mysteries and major laughs, all in the same week. That's Right hosts Karen Kilgueref and Georgia Hardstarke Banter with each other, sharing their favorite true crime tales and explore unique hometown stories from friends and fans alike. And they're both great, and it's a fun show, and you should listen. So listen to new episodes of my favorite murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. By the way, I want to say I admire Colin Kaepernick, or Kapernick, and I meant no disrespect by saying his name. You're right. That is just so me. Of course, I know you're kneeling right now. In fact, I know that you knew, but I just wanted to sure. You know. All right. So they're in the forest. The forest makes historical sense. Like we pointed out, that's where outlaws did their bidding. And now we should talk about the king, because it's sort of not all over the map, but there's a few people that some historians believe could have been the king of note. Yeah, but what's weird is if you read those original ballads that are spelled all crazy, they mention the king one out of all of them. There's just one mention of the king, and they refer to him as Edward, our comeley king. Yeah. Which I think is Edward three. Right. That's what some historians say. Right. If you take the ballads at face value and that they were written contemporaneously to Robin Hood's exploits, right? Yes. But a lot of people, even in the popular culture, the kings that are most associated with the Robin Hood legend are Richard the Lionheart and his brother, the sniveling villain King John. He's always sniveling and whiny in movies, and so in the Robin hood legends. Robin Hood frequently helped Richard the Lionheart regain his throne from King John, who had schemed to get it away from him. King john's the villain king really? Robin Hood is the hero, but King Richard's like the backup hero. Yeah, but they think that it's possible. And some of the best candidates for who Robin Hood is based on, actually we're running around and interacting with the real life King John, if not also King Richard too. Yeah, but that doesn't make sense time wise. Right, because unless they just took a while to get around to writing these stories because they were around 100 years before the first Robin Hood ballad started appearing. Right. Which in my opinion lends credence to the idea that the ballads are folklore based on actual events. Because that time span is just about enough for things to be kind of changed and compressed and added to for a folklore to develop. Like, think about if you're describing, like, an outlaw, like if you or I wrote something about Billy the Kid based on stuff we'd heard, what will we come up with? It'd be close, but it wouldn't be like 100% accurate. Right, right. Yeah, that's a good point. Richard, though, had a pretty interesting story when he died. And this is something that is not lower, but is as close to recorded facts as we can get. He was walking around the perimeter of a chateau in France where there was a battle going on, basically. I get the feeling that it was sort of winding down. So he may have D chainmailed and was like just airing out his armpits or something. And he was shot with a crossbow in the shoulder ordinarily might not have been a big deal, but it turned gangreness. And some people say as he was dying, he said, bring me the man who shot me. And they bring the man and he like forgave him and said, spare this man. I may die, but do not do anything to him. But that's not how it turned out, is it? The guy's name? Peter Basil. And after the king died, everybody turned to Peter Basil and was like, you know you're dead, right? He's like, probably figured it. Yeah, I was really hoping that wasn't the case. All right, but didn't you hear him? He just said, Right, mother, but they flayed him alive, which meant peeling the skin off of his head while he was alive. Unbelievable. And then after he endured a lot of agony, they hanged him without the skin because I'm sure they peeled it off of his neck as well. Imagine how bad a hanging would be. But then without your skin on your neck, rope burn it's adding insult to injury is what it is. Yeah. So it was custom at the time that you bury the king in different places, which sounds really horrific now, but he was cut up and buried in different places. Heart in Normandy, entrails and shallows, and apparently the rest of us remains in Anjou. Right. That was the good brother. Yeah. That was Richard the lionheart. Yeah. So he wasn't deposed by his brother John. He actually died. He was king for two years after their father what was his name? Henry, I believe. Henry II. Yeah. Henry II. Right. Yeah. Okay, so after Henry II died, Richard took over for two years. Then he dies, and then John ascends to the throne reign of terror. And John was like he's known among historians as the worst king England has ever had. Yeah. Like you said, he was paranoid. He had no scruples, he was humorless. He was just not a good guy. They point out in this article you sent, he was the opposite of Robin Hood and that he took from the rich and the poor and just gave it to himself. I actually wrote that. Did you write that? Very well done. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Sounded like a Josh Clark line. Thanks. And in the movies, John's always just that he's sort of a whiny baby. He is. But he's also very powerful and very evil. And deadly. Yes. And vindictive. Right. Yeah. So this is in real life. That's how he's remembered and described. He was very well known for being a heavy taxer. He would take your state and he would use these funds to enrich himself, basically, like you're saying. But he was the noble or he was the king that the nobles rebelled against and forced to sign the Magna Carta. That was John. Yeah. That means that he was such a bad king that his own people rose up and took London hostage and forced him to negotiate with them. And he signed this document that forms the basis of civil and individual liberties in the Western world. The Magna Carta signed in 1215, so John was forced to sign that. And this rebellion is kind of part of the Robin Hood legend as well. Pretty cool. Yeah. He wasn't cool. No, but everything going on around him was cool. And I think that the point of John. And the reason why I think that he was part of the basis of the Robin Hood legend historically is that prior to John, when his father was king, there was a respect for the rule of law and things were just kind of run. Well, like, the king didn't act above the law. Well, King John was very much not like that. He was above the law and acted like it and flaunted it. So when his father was around, the idea of an outlaw, an outlaw was a villain. By the time John took over, or after John took over, that had reversed. Outlaw was in opposition to the king. The law was what was corrupt. And so John's reign kind of gave this fertile ground for a legend like Robin Hood, an outlaw hero, to develop, possibly for the first time in Western culture. Yeah, it was prime time for something like this to take hold. Right. So as far as who Robin Hood may have been, historians have tossed a lot of people into the pot over the years, and most of them have some variation of that name. There was a robin with a y HOD H-O-D. Great. A robert hood or Roberto. Not bad. There was Gilbert. Robin Hood. Sure, why not? With A-Y-N. So all these historians are like, oh, it's got to be these three guys, right? Yeah. Robin Hood with a U. Yes. But here's what some other folks have finally said is, you know what? I think that name is not a name, but it is a term for an outlaw. Yeah. It was created and there's a little bit to back that up. Yeah, there really is, actually. This is like, as clever as an historian can get. Pretty good stuff here. Clever and lucky. Some historians I didn't find out who it was or when, but they came upon, I guess, like a civic proclamation about prior, which is a church official being pardoned for seizing somebody's assets. Yes. And he sees them without a warrant, which is what he was being pardoned for. Yes. But the person whose assets he sees was an outlaw named William Robahod. Robinhood. Right. R-O-B-E-H-O-D. So they were like, okay, this is a Robin Hood right here. They managed to find the year's court record before for the same area, that there was only one prior in the area, and that noted that the prior had seized the assets of a guy named Robert Williams, son of Robert La Fever. So what they figured out was that the clerk in the pardoning proclamation wrote down that the guy was a Robohud, which meant a fugitive and outlaw. And they say, okay, this is proof positive that as late as 1262, no later than 1262, the idea of using the term Robin Hood or some variation of that as a term for an outlaw, a generic term for an outlaw, was so widespread that a clerk could write that down, denote somebody as a Robohad, and people would know what they were talking about. Which means that legend of Robin Hood had to have been around prior to this and in circulation for long enough that it had spread. Yeah. So, in effect, William, son of Robert La fever, is the same person as William Robahide. Right. And this dude in 1262, this clerk just took it upon himself to give him that name, and no one thought he was crazy. Right. It's almost like he had written down William the Bank Robber or William the Bandit rather than writing his last name, which, frankly, he didn't have a last name. He was son of Robert La Fever because they didn't have last names very much back then. So it was very much like the. Clerk wrote William the Outlaw Bandit. Yes. What he used Robahod or Robin Hood instead of Outlaw Bandit is just somewhere over the ages, we lost that knowledge that Robohad or Robin Hood meant that and wasn't an actual person. Right. So there's this other guy, folk fitz Warren. I love this guy. He is a bad dude. He was a bad dude, and he was a real guy. And it turns out there was actually a personal link to King John. They were pals, little Folk Fitzhorn and young John, who I bet young John was not fun to be around. No, he's probably not a fun playmate. Yeah. Mine. And here's one story. They were playing chess one day. John got mad, broke his chest forward over Folk's head. Folk kicked him in the stomach, and John almost said, Little John. But that would be a mistake. Different John. Little John was a character, which, by the way, I don't think we mentioned. Little John was referencing all those old ballads. He's been around kind of since the beginning, and they think they found his grave. That's right. So this John, as he was younger, went crying to Daddy and said, he kicked me in the stomach, expecting to get some sort of backup. And apparently that would have been Henry II. I don't know if he beat him, but he was beaten for complaining about being kicked in the stomach. Thanked him good. Yeah. So no wonder John grew up to be a jerk, right. His dad didn't never have his back, it sounds like. Yeah, that's part of it, I'm sure. So flash forward a bit, folks. Father passes away in he inherits his ancestral holding at Whittington. John comes to power and says, I remember when you kicked me in the stomach. What a little bastard. I am going to take your holdings, take your family estate, basically, and give it to your enemy, ole Maury Fitz Roger. Yeah, sorry, Maurice. There's a name as an S at the end. These names are great. So folk ends up murdering Morris. It might even be Morris. Morris, maybe. Yeah, probably today it would be Morris Fitz. Roger yeah. That's a new. Folk kills Morris, flees, and basically wages a Robin Hood like war against John right. And his men for about three years. Yeah. So this could be him. Yeah, it could be. Because not just the fact that he was battling King John and fled to the forest where he used as his base of operation. But there are a few other things that came up. Like one thing that's part of the legends but actually isn't part of the earliest ballads is that Robin Hood was a fallen nobleman, somebody of noble birth who either lost or renounced their title and became an outlaw and then regained it. That's the story of Folk fitz Warren. He lost his land, he lost his title to this other guy and then finally got it back when he was pardoned in twelve three. Right. Pretty good candidate. That was one. There's another one where Folk was known to while he was a forest bandit, he would hijack like the King's people who were carrying the King's money album, and he would say, what do you have on you? And the ones who told the truth about what they actually had, the amount of currency they had on them, he would let live. Barry Robin Hoodie very straight out of the legend. But the ones who lied, he would punish with their lives or whatever that was. Super Robin Hoodie. There was also another character trait of Robin Hood, was disguises. Using disguises, Folk Fitzwarren was not above disguising himself. Yeah, there was another guy, historical outlaw named Eustace the Monk, who also had the disguise thing down very much like Robin, in fact. Exactly. He would disguise himself as a potter. And that even goes to the Disney cartoon. These disguises very much a Robin Hood thing. I don't know. Eustace the Monk doesn't seem as enticing to me as old Fitz Warren. No Fitz or Folk is he's my guy, too? Speaking of Fitz, though, we should tell everyone that that little tag at the beginning of the name means that you're a bastard child, right? An illegitimate son. Yeah, I looked that up because it sounded too good to be true. But there was definitely a kid named Fitzroy, which meant illegitimate son of Roy, of the King, and I can't remember what King or what the guy's first name was, and since then, it's kind of become code, but I don't know that that was widespread at the time that necessarily Folk Fitz Warren was an illegitimate son or that any of the other Fitz were. Yeah, I wonder today if like Fitzpatrick and Fitzgibbons and like Fitzgerald fitzgerald. Is that all mean illegitimate son of Gerald or Patrick? I don't know. I don't know. It's the truth anymore. Very interesting, Fitz. Should we take another break? Yeah, we'll let everybody stew on that one for a little while. We'll be back right after this. What if you were a global bank who wanted to supercharge your audit system so you tap IBM to UNSILO your data and with the help of AI, start crunching a year's worth of transactions against thousands of compliance controls. Now you're making smarter decisions, faster operating costs are lower, and everyone from your auditors to your bankers feels like a million bucks. Let's create smarter ways of putting your data to work. IBM. Let's create learn more@ibm.com. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but we're pretty excited about summer. I mean, what's not to like? School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's right. And that's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. Yeah, and with so many killer shows like morbid. My favorite. Murder and Smalltown Murder. You'll never be bored to death again. Prepare to go deep and become your own detective in the world of serial crimes and unsolved mysteries. Get lost hearing spooky stories with a combination of detailed research and lighthearted analysis. Whether you're a lifetime fan of true crime or you just feel like being entertained while doing the dishes at night, there's a podcast out there for you. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today. All right, so we've covered folk, and we covered eustace folk. By the way, we got to tell that one story real quick about him. The beginning. Yeah. He found out that another bandit was using his name Pierce Morgan. What was his name? Pierce what? Pierce to Braville. Okay, that sounds like these sound like romance novel names. Yeah. But he found out Pierce was using his name, robbing somewhere else, and he captured Pierce and his men, and he made Pearce tie his men up and then go around and behead every single one of them with his own hands, I guess. With the assumption that he would be let go, I guess, but he didn't. Then he cut off Pierce's hands when he was dead. If this happened, Chuck, can you imagine being in that house, that room where there's, like 5610 guys? I have no idea how many men there were who were systematically beheaded. And so you're waiting in line as the guy next to us getting his head cut off and your turns next. There's heads everywhere. Yeah. How much blood and gore was everywhere? Can you imagine really put yourself into that situation that may have actually happened? It's so disturbing. So disturbing. Yeah. Like, losing your head. I think that's probably, like, the first mortal fear any humans ever experienced. Yeah. We just know on a primal level, the head is supposed to be attached to the body, and when it's not, there's something bad wrong that's going on. Yeah, like your death didn't we determine, though, in a podcast nine and a half years ago that you stay alive for, like, what, six or 7 seconds? Four, I think 4 seconds. That's what they found in rats after you were beheaded. Yeah. I remember that one guy who was guillotine. He kept looking over and trying to die, but then they'd say his name and his eyes would open back up, and they'd be like, what? Oh. Can you imagine the horror of potentially looking up for 4 seconds and seeing your headless body? No, my mind just rails against going there. Yeah, it should. It's replacing it with the withdraw. All right, so there was a guy who wrote a book. A lot of people are still trying to piece this together. This is not something that historians put to bed years and years ago, definitely not only 14 years ago, in 2004 and probably since then, but there was a dude named Brian Bennett who wrote a book called Robin Hood Colon. Case closed, always a cult. The real story. That's pretty close to case. Close. Yeah, pretty much. And he says he's in the camp, that Robin Hood is a name, like a title. Similar, he says to Billy the kid. Right. I thought Billy Kidd was a real dude, though, right? Yeah, I think his name is William. Bonnie. Yeah, but I mean, he knew at the time that he was called Billy to Kidd. Right? Yeah. It's a terrible analogy. I think so too, because it'd be like Robin, son of La Fever. Right. But you call him Robin Hood. Not even close. No. But at any rate, he claims it's a nickname of a man named Roger Godbird or Goberd. And he said he's the real guy. He said he lived in the 13th century. He was a friend originally of the Sheriff of Nottingham, Reginald de Gray. That's pretty significant. And we should point out, too, that one reason we can't pinpoint a lot of this is that they never name the Sheriff of Nottingham they're talking about in any of these stories. Right. And that's not a person's name, that's a title. No, but there is such a thing as the Sheriff of Nottingham that there was back then. But there were many of them. Right, exactly. Just one after the other. So that doesn't help that much. But it does zero in on the area, but yeah, it doesn't help get a time period down. No, but he claims that it was specifically Reginald de Gray that Sheriff of Nottingham, and after about four years as an outlaw, the dude was captured, went to jail, pardoned, and then farmed peacefully for the rest of his life. Yeah. And I mean, that guy is a pretty good candidate. He is. Because one of the things about the Robin Hood themes, despite, I think the ballads no, not in the ballads. It would have been in the ones that came later. So I guess the ones that the Scottish historians added, he was battling the king. Right. In the original ballads, all of the people he was rebelling against and fighting were like local authorities. Like the Sheriff of Nottingham. Yeah. So he was kind of a working class hero. Among the first working class the west has ever seen, the Yowman farmers of the era or of the area. They were like the first middle class that ever developed. Because either you were a peasant, meaning you were a feudal slave to the feudal lord and you work the land whether you liked it or not, or you were landed gentry, like you were a feudal lord and you had a peasantry and you had a bunch of land. You're friends with a king, but in between there were yaman. I think that's how you say it Y-E-O-M-A-N-Y omen. There were yeoman farmers who weren't slaves, but they didn't have a title. They just kind of made their own way. And supposedly that's what Robin Hood was. So it sounds like that this was what this Roger Gobert is. Right. He was the same thing. And the idea that he was battling the Sheriff of Nottingham, that would place him more in the historical lens than, say, if he were battling King John. That's actually a mark against folk Fitz Warren because that doesn't appear in the original ballads. It was battling the Sheriff of Nottingham where he was battling local church officials. He hated the church officials, but he loved God. He did so much so that he would get arrested to come out to go to church. Right. He just hated the clergy. Right. Which at the time, those were the people who were taking your land or throwing you in jail or taking your stuff without a warrant. Yes. And also when you look back on a lot of these early ballads and stories, they're very different from what the legend of Robin Hood became to us in contemporary fiction. Apparently the Jest ballad only had a couple of things that he did that were even close to these big altruistic acts that he's really most known for. Now. I think one of them was he agreed to lend money to a knight. That was one of the reasons. $5. Just pay it back with a 2%. Vague. Right. But that whole steal from the rich and give to the poor thing, that came thanks to the Scottish historian. Yeah. All these authors sort of littered it with that stuff because they had found a champion of the underling, basically in the common man and ran with it just from standing up to the king or to the authority who were acting unjustly and above the law themselves. Yeah. There's also no mention in those early tales of a Maid Marian who seems to have come along later and is actually a great example of one of the first examples in literature of female empowerment of a character. Because Maid Marian was no one's jump in any of these stories. And she was like a sort of an equal to Robin, partially because of her spunk and partially because Robin, in the stories at least, was kind of down with equality. Right. Yeah. That was one thing. That and basically being in Nottingham area or Yorkshire area, but somewhere in the woods, those two things are basically the two constants throughout all the Robin Hood legends that he was very much down with. He was a feminist. Yeah. And Maid Marian, from what I saw, she had her own series of ballads before she appeared in the Robin Hood ballad. She was her own character. And so when they were brought together, it was kind of analogous to putting Superman and Wonder Woman in the same comic book basically, which is a pretty cool move. That is a cool move. And to keep her equal to him, that's huge. Yeah, it is huge. Whether or not any of that happened is kind of irrelevant as far as literature is concerned. There was one historian in 1521 that wrote, robin permitted no harm to women, nor seized the goods of the poor, but helped them generously with what he took from Abbott. Like we were saying earlier with the clergy. But then in some of the earlier stories, there's not a whole lot of mention of that kind of stuff, except for one that just had one comment, that Robin did pour men much good. It's okay. Sure. I guess it's better than, like he was the scourge of the poor. Yes. But it wasn't like they built the legend upon that one kind of throwaway line. But I think they did well. Yeah, right. But they didn't make a lot of hay out of it. Or at least that one author didn't. Yeah, not at the very beginning in the ballads. Yes. It was also way more violent. There was one of the characters, Much, the miller's son. Much was his name. I just love that guy's name. Much was, I think, in the ballots. He lops off the head of a page boy, a child, to keep him from blabbing from what he saw. The location of where the Merry Men were. Right. It was way more violent than the later ones depicted. Robin Hood. Yeah. They were, though. All Robin and his merry men. Archery was always a big deal. They're all very skilled archers and swordsmen, but they were all super skilled horsemen. And that's not something that you see as much. Right. Although I think in this new movie, he's a pretty good horseman. Yeah. I mean, imagine it's hard enough to be good on a horse, but a horse in a forest, that's like a whole different level. Shooting arrows. Yeah, like a Mongol. Exactly. And that was who was so good. Yeah, the Mongols. The Mongol hordes who made their thigh stakes. Remember they sat on raw meat on their saddles to secure it. Steaks tartar. Steak tartar. What else? Do you get? Anything? Oh, he was killed by a treacherous Pryrus, a female church official. Kind of like a middle manager nun. A middle manager nun. Yeah. He went to go see none for. Right. Was he hurt? Healthcare. I'm not sure what it was, but he went to go get Bled, and she purposefully over bled him. And then when he asked to be buried somewhere, and she was like, no, I'm going to bury you on the side of the road. And she supposedly erected this is in Kirkley's she erected a stone that said, here lies Robin Hood, or something. I don't remember exactly what variation of Robin Hood it was. Robert Houde. H-U-D-E? Yeah. And supposedly she erected it. And this is written hundreds of years later to basically let travelers through the woods know that they didn't have to fear being held up any longer. Apparently, if your name had the initials RH, it was fair game. Yeah, they really have a lot of leeway here with things like hood. Hoed HOD. Yes. Everybody was illiterate, so it didn't matter. Robin. Robert. Robertus, come on. Maybe I'm come on, you middle English. Dumb. Dumb. And supposedly, after he was dying, he used his last bit of energy to fire an arrow and say, that's where I want to be buried. And that's when she was like, that was nice for the movies, but it's not happening. She's like, yeah, sure. You can die knowing that I'll bear you just there over bled, man. Can you imagine? Because I guess you just get so weak that I can imagine. You're probably like, I think I'm good, but I'm not feeling so hot. She's like, Just a little more. I'm not dead yet. You got anything else? Nothing. So that was Robin Hood. I love history. And if you love history too, we'll go look up some Robin Hood stuff on the Internet. Since I said that it's time for this, I'm going to call this one of the many roundabouts emails that we got. We got a lot. Everyone loves their roundabouts. I know. It was really surprising. Like, everyone wanted to talk about their hometown roundabout. Everybody is very proud of their roundabout. Apologies to the people of Carmel. Carmel didn't say it's. Caramel. I don't remember. I think it's supposed to be Carmel. Let's go with Carmel. Hey, guys. Just finished roundabouts. I thought I'd pitch a little info on our local one. In Alexandria, Louisiana, the 1940s, they built two circles, part of a road project speed up travel between two local military bases that have popped up during World War II. The larger of the two is still in use, so it's notorious in the area for traffic accidents, especially during heavy traffic and bad weather. It's a two lane circle with a large forested area in the very center that is probably the size of a city block. Wow. Like other roundabouts, you must yield the traffic already on the circle, but there are two lanes that funnel traffic under the circle and only one lane for getting off. This means that if you enter in the left lane, you have to merge to the right lane before you can exit. Because the circle is so big, though the speed limit is 45 miles an hour within the circle. Wow. People inevitably go too fast. Or sometimes lanes change as slower cars are entering the circle, resulting in rear end crashes. The problem is frequent enough that the city is seriously looking into eliminating the circle. No definitive plan and replacement has been settled on. And some locals are concerned about disrupting wildlife in the forest as well, which has delayed any definitive action on whether the circle will continue to exist. May the circle be unbroken. Warmest regards. I love that. Marshall Welsh from Colfax, Louisiana. Thanks a lot, Marshall. I appreciate that. Great story. Let us know how it pans out because we worry about the wildlife too. Yeah, and thanks for everyone who wrote in about the roundabouts. I love the enthusiasm. Yeah, it's nice. Especially from Carmel. Carmel, if you want to get in touch with us, do that. You can go to stephytino.com, find our social media links, and you can also send us an email to stuffpodcast@howstuffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetopworks.com. Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school's out. The sun is shining, the daylights longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgarref and Georgia Hardstark, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. You know you're a pet mom when you plan your vacation around your pet. At Halo, we get it, because we're pet moms, too. We make natural, high quality pet food that's rooted in science. It's the world's best food for the world's best kids. Learn more@halo.com." | |
633f3ab6-773d-4be6-8986-aea900dcfccd | Selects: How Satanism Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/selects-how-satanism-works | Satanism may be the most misunderstood "religion" in the world. Part of that is because there are, and have been, many offshoots of Satanism, from The Church of Satan to The Satanic Temple. One thing is sure though, none of them are filled with evil humans who perform ritual blood sacrifice and worship a cloven-hoofed devil. Learn all about Satanism in this classic episode.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | Satanism may be the most misunderstood "religion" in the world. Part of that is because there are, and have been, many offshoots of Satanism, from The Church of Satan to The Satanic Temple. One thing is sure though, none of them are filled with evil humans who perform ritual blood sacrifice and worship a cloven-hoofed devil. Learn all about Satanism in this classic episode.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | Sat, 04 Jun 2022 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2022, tm_mon=6, tm_mday=4, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=155, tm_isdst=0) | 50493727 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, everyone, Josh here. And for this week's select, I've chosen our 2017 episode on Satanism. It proved to be a pretty eye opening episode and was much less upsetting and much more enjoyable than the title might suggest. So sit back, relax and listen up to how Satanism works. Hey, everybody. It's us, Josh and Chuck. And we just wanted to say that if you have very strong religious beliefs, I don't know, you may want to skip this one. Yeah, we talked about Satanism in this episode and what seems like glowing terms, but for my part at least, I was just trying to have a little fun with it. So I hope that comes across. Yeah, we have an intellectual conversation about Satanism. How about that? All right, agreed. All right, well, onto the show, Chuck. Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio. Hi and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Seated directly across from me is one Charles W. Wayne. Charles Chuckers Bryant. That's pretty good. Old yells above himself. Yeah. And there is old Scratch to my right, Matt. Matt, do you let people know your last name? Oh, yeah, you're a personality. Matt Frederick. Why don't I get kidnapped? Guest producer Matt Frederick of the Old days, co host of Stuff They Don't Want You to Know. And now, supervising producer for Podcasts Man. We don't let our producers talk on our episode, so we're going to have to beat that out. Matt says that was a huge announcement you just said. Yeah, nice. Well, congrats, Matt. And Matt has been working here forever, just like us. Nice. Lovely wife, lovely child. Yes. Great family loves Indian food. I didn't know that. Oh, yeah, it's bread and butter, as it were. It says gee and non. Now he's afraid to talk, which he should be. That's good. Matt's here. Yeah. So thank you, Matt. And hail Satan. I was going to say hail Satan. Hail Satan. Chuck hail Satan. Josh it's funny, I went from when reading this to thinking Satanists are just libertarians to no, Satanists are kind of Republicans. And I don't mean that. You'll see what I mean? OK. Philosophically in some ways, I don't mean and then I thought, I'm a Satanist. Okay. Did you have an awakening? I read some of the stuff in their FAQ on their website and some of their fundamentals and their eleven rules of earth and their nine Satanic statements will read all that stuff. I thought, jeez, I agree with a lot of this stuff. There are 13 things to avoid getting gouged at the grocery store. What? Satanists are not, almost assuredly, are not evil people who meet in dark churches to perform ritual blood sacrifice and eat hearts and draw pentagrams on. They may draw pentagrams. Yeah, that part is actually true. But there's more things that Satanists are not. I think if you were coming into this blind without knowing anything, you'd probably be surprised about just how kind of groovy they are. And this is the church of Satan that I'm talking about mainly. No, I think you can apply what you just said to all Satanists. Yeah, true. Because if you're a Satanist, you would take umbrage at the idea that somebody who actually believes in the supernatural entity Satan is not a Satanist. Right. Because Satanism by definition, at least modern Satanism by definition, is an atheistic philosophy. So there's no supernatural entities of any kind to Satanists. So somebody who worship Satan would be a devil worshiper. Right. Completely different kind of thing. Yeah, and I didn't finish the last thing well, no, I mean, I got off track. The last thing I thought when I was reading about the Temple of Satan is that these are just liberal hippies temple of Satan. The Satanic temple? Yeah, satanic temple. I saw them compared to or analogized as a dark. Yes. Men. You know, the yes men. No. Oh, you got to check out the yes Men. There's a couple of yes Men documentaries and they basically do this, but it's not Satanically associated. And I wonder why it was Satanically associated. I'm like, sounds like you're a bunch of liberal hippie scientists to me. Well, we'll get into all that. Okay, okay. So we're talking Satanists and Satanism, if you couldn't tell, because we have been saying Satan a lot. And if like Chuck said, you're coming into this blind, let us illuminate for you, let us bring the light to your eye. And we both grew goatee for this episode. Yeah, exactly. And shaped our heads and horns. John in Strickland actually could do a oh, man. Sort of an amateur Anton LeVay if you wanted to. He could. I'm sure he does at home, if you know what I mean. All right, so let's go back and this is a Grabster article, so, you know, it's got the goods. And talk a little bit about the origin story of Satan, which we will lead up to sort of what the modern version of that is. But if you're thinking red guy with a pitch fork and pointy hooves, it tries to lure people away from God to do bad things. That kind of came around later. So we need to go back further to the Hebrew Bible, which the Christian Old Testament is derived from. Right. And there's a lot of uncertainty on what Satan actually meant, depending on how you want to translate the Hebrew term. Right. And the reason there's uncertainty is because Satan wasn't a figure in early Judaism, because the early Jews believed that God was all things. God was good, God was evil, god was responsible for everything in the universe. There wasn't what we understand now, or anybody who thinks of the JudeoChristian ethic now, there wasn't dualism, which is there's good and the bad, there's light and the dark and they equal each other out. In early Judaism, that didn't exist. It was all in one, so there was no need for Satan. Right. But as this concept of an all benevolent, loving God spread, this question arose, which was, well, wait a minute, if God is just so benevolent and loving, why does he or she let bad things happen? And so the need for the concept of Satan emerged later on. And because of the early Judaism's proximity to Persia, which was ruling the land at the time, at about the 6th to third centuries BCE, persia had Zoroastrianism, which had dualism. So they kind of introduced the Hebrew faith, two dualism, and hence Satan was originally born. Yes. So there's no consensus, when you look at these old texts, what these translations mean. Sometimes it is an adversary or an opponent to God, sometimes it's not. Sometimes he's like an attorney in heaven's legal system, throwing the bucket, people like Al Pacino. Yeah. Quite literally. Did he play the devil or did he as a lawyer? Right. Devil's advocate. Right. With Keanu. I don't think I ever saw that. I didn't either. Okay. But we were both alive at the time, so we know. Yeah. You look at all these different forms of what the word meant back then before it became the modern version we all know. And the one kind of common thread through all of them, though, is that Satan was an outsider who was sort of against the man and these established values that everyone else seemed to believe in. Right. Or established rules or just even the establishment in general. Yes. He's the antithesis of that. Correct. You get into the Christian New Testament and it starts to clear up a bit to where there is a single being called Satan who is supernatural and it's direct opposition to God and is usually used as a tool God uses in the Bible, at least as a test. Like go down there and test these humans. Go get that guy to see which way their allegiance lay. Right. That Satan is called the scriptural Satan or Satan of the Scriptures, right? Yeah. He also kind of comes out of nowhere in the New Testament to tempt Jesus in the desert, I believe. And you know all this, right? Am I right? It was in the desert. Well, yeah. And I think, by the way, just to back up to that last episode, Stuttering, when I didn't hear the story about Moses, the Bible with a cold in his mouth or whatever everyone wrote in was like, it's not in the Bible, don't feel bad. Oh, good. It was from something else, right? It was from the Disney movie. Yeah. But in one of the gospels in the New Testament, and no need to write in to let us know, but it's in one of the gospels in the New Testament that Satan appears to Jesus to try to tempt him. And he's kind of brought in almost like he's a character that everybody should know, but if you're just reading the New Testament from beginning to end, you're like, who's this guy? But apparently another gospel makes mention that Satan was the serpent in the Garden of Eden. So he's a big tempter, he's bent on corrupting man and getting man to stray from God's flock. Basically, yeah. And there are certain demons that are named properly in the Bible, like Bielzebub and Belly al. And again, it's just sort of conjecture on our part whether or not that's referring to Satan or whether it's a generic evil. It's just sort of difficult to what it wasn't was the Devil with the horns and the pitchfork that we all think about. No. And those earliest names for the devil, like Beelzebub, are actually corruptions or alterations of competing religion gods. Right, yeah. So early Christianity, and I guess Middle Judaism had this kind of tendency to take other religions gods and make them the evil characters in their religions because they wanted Christianity to flourish. Right, exactly. They wanted to make the competition look bad as a way to do it was a severe tactic and a campaign to get converts. Right. So Beelzebub is actually a corruption of Balalzevov, which is I'm sorry, Balalzevoval the Exalted. I think if you say that one more time, he will appear and Ball B, a apostrophe al, was the main deity of the Canaanites and the Phoenicians, who were competing with the early Christians at the time. And if you say balls of ov, that means Lord of the Flies, not Lord the Exalted. So it was a slam on their competition's main god. And that's where B elder bug came from. And that's actually that will become a commonplace in the Christian playbook of smearing the other guys gods by making them evil figures in Christian mythology. platoo orata Bailez Abub. Remember, there was a dead Milkman album called B lzabuba. Yes. Had like that guy in a tractor on the cover that was blown sibbaba. Well, the same with Lucifer. And when we finally got the English language King James Bible in 1611, lucifer was really a Latin term for Morningstar, but in that version of the Bible, they say no, what that really is, is the name of Satan. Right. And he was the light bringer, the one who would reveal the truth to people that they were actually being held down by God. Yeah. Which is not the Christian way. Right. So what you're saying by co opting all these are not co opting, but kind of co opting these bad religions. Another band that's actually a real band name. Yeah. Correct. These bad religions and saying those are the bad ones. That's how the Devil that we know today, the Satan sorry. That we know today, has taken shape because like the Greek god Pan had the cloven hooves and the horns. Bacchus, the Roman god, is where you get this insatiable Bacchanalian decadence, which, as we'll see with the Church of Satan, is it too far off. They certainly love their orgies. Sure. And their trays have fined roasted meats and cheeses, jugs of wine. So in the Middle Ages, in the Renaissance, then, this mythology, Christian mythology, has expanded. You get a couple of books that were very key into shaping who we think of today as Satan. Right. One was John Milton's epic poem Paradise Lost. Then, of course, Dante's Divine Comedy. This is where we got the idea that Satan was an angel expelled from Heaven because of his pride, who then said, and I will defeat the Lord. Wow. These are actually from two books written by dudes. Yeah. A lot of the mythology about Satan that Christians understand as Satan just people in the culture generally understand as Satan don't show up anywhere in the actual Bible, old Testament or New Testament. All that stuff came afterwards. So Chuck the Enlightenment was another turning point then, big time for the conception of Satan. His evolution as, like, a scary, supernatural otherworldly figure takes a different turn. Because the Enlightenment was based on rational thought. Secular humanism finds its roots in the Enlightenment, and they started to come to see Satan as a kind of a creative force, almost. Yeah. Foil to the establishment, this idea that Satan is the opposite of the established norms and customs and moral goods and that he's kind of like a handy archetype for that. So he loses some of his supernatural Jewish yes. And is replaced by metaphorical Jewish. Yeah. And I think that seems to be the one that the Church of Satan sort of identified with a little more was that Satan was just a free thinking dude. Yeah. Apparently that's where they got that's where it finds its roots, the Enlightenment. Very interesting, which makes sense because most Satanists would be probably humanists, secular humanists, although they're individualist. But you could make a case that that's an individual humanism. Yeah. And that comes out of the Enlightenment as well. You want to take a break and then keep going, or you want to keep going? Now, let's take a break, and we'll talk a little bit about witches right after this. So I promise talk of witches. We did it in the Jeez. That was a long time ago. We did an episode on witchcraft many, many years ago. And if you are a witch or a Western esoteric, you are probably one of two groups of people to be accused of worshiping Satan in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. Basically anything in opposition to organized Christianity was Satan worship. Right. And that's the same thing as saying your God, your creator deity is like Satan. And our religion, it's the same thing. Anything that's in opposition to Christian thought is automatically heretical and kind of almost like the lazy, shorthand way of describing it is Satanic. You know, Satan, he's scary and evil. Right. Well, what these people think is Satanic. Yeah. And if you listen to the episode on witchcraft. I know stuff you missed in history class did a good episode on what really happened in Salem, which will probably cover that at some point, I imagine. But I think everyone pretty much knows at this point about 60,000 people, mainly women, were put to death in the American colonies in Europe and under the guise of being Satan worshippers and witches and practicing witchery. And by all accounts, they generally were. I don't like the way that lady looked at me in the town today. Or you know what, I think she stole milk from my cow. Or I want her land, or I want her land, or my wife is jealous of her. Right, so they're all witches. Let's burn them. Let's throw them in lakes and see if they float. And let's burn them because if they don't float, then they're not witches. They drown. And early physicians had more than just a small hand in this as well, especially like folk healers and midwives of being witches again to basically force the competition out. Yeah, we talk about that one. And that seems more recent. Remember maybe gray Robbing? Can we talk about that in gray Robbing? Feels like it does. There were also things called esoteric orders, which were, I don't even know what you would call that today, basically kind of any group that didn't subscribe to mainstream Christianity. So like the Masons or the Illuminati thing, they were Christian at base gnostics, but then they had this other occult ideas in addition to it. Right? So like the Catherine or Catherine's are a good example of that. They were in, I think, like the 12th of 14th century France and they were like Christian plus. Right. The Catherine means like the pure ones. They were so Christian that they felt like just being a normal pious Christian wasn't enough and you actually had to be baptized again. It was basically like a born again Christian process. But in again, like 12th 13th century France. They were considered heretics and they were persecuted. You could call them an esoteric order because it didn't follow prescribed Christianity, orthodox establishment Christianity to a T. It either was lacking some or had extra and then you're a heretic and hence Satanist and esoteric order believed in Dan Brown books. Basically all that stuff is true. All the stuff he writes about is about like esoteric orders. Well, and here's the thing though. They were all labeled as Satanists, but there's no evidence whatsoever that any of them were Satanic in truth. Yeah, well, I was reading about one, the Luciferians. They actually although their concept of Satan wasn't that he was evil, their concept was that he was the one true deity and that he had been tricked into being kicked out of heaven unfairly by a treacherous Jehovah. Oh, interesting. And that it was actually Lucifer who was supposed to be in charge and that Jehovah was oppressing everybody. So if that's true, then yes, as far as the church goes, that is as Satanic as you can possibly get in your beliefs because they were in total opposition to the Church in their beliefs as well. For the most part. Most of these other groups were not in any way, shape or form Satanic as you would think of it today. Oh yeah. And Ed even points out in here, the Grabster, that there's no evidence in world history that there's ever been any long term organized group of people that worship Satan as some evil entity. Right, that's a huge one because that's one of the ways that Christianity was able to smear its rivals, by suggesting that they were part of a huge, massive cult, satanic cult. If there's a supernatural entity that's bent on getting you and making your life terrible and there's actually people on earth who are following this person, it's going to make you stay to the straight and narrow of your prescribed religion even more. Yeah, right. Baron Brimstone and whatnot? Yes, I grew up with that. I can't remember which show. I think it was during Satanic Panic, we talked about the devil worship house in Stone Mountain, that it was the scariest place I had ever driven past on the way to Steak and Alex and I missed an ale. Are they done? They're surely they're around. Right? There's probably like one in Vegas and one in Hong Kong or something weird like that. It would be funny if the one on Hong Kong was like this retro throwback themed American thing, you know? Yes, it's like America in the eighties. Alright, alright. Well, let's talk about Anton LeVay, then. What time has come? Oh, wait, I want to say one more thing. Okay, so in the I think the 14th century, the Knights Templar, another esoteric order, but a military order, were accused of worshiping Baphomet. And Baphomet is Satan with like the goat's head and horns. Yeah, that's the greatlooking statue they tried to put up in Oklahoma. Right. Well, Baffamett is most likely an alteration or mistranslation or something of Mohammed, and that it was used to basically include Mohammed as Satan in the Christian ethos when the Christians first encountered Muslims during the Crusades. So it's like the same thing, but a thousand years after they did it to be Elzabeth, they did it to Mohamed. We should do like a ten parter on the Crusades. Yeah, we should. Starting now. Just trying to think if I would be up for that. Yes. I don't know. I don't think so. All right, can we invite Anton LeVay in? Yes, now he can come in. The ghost of Anton LeVay. It is Jonathan Strickland. So this dude, he was born, he's the founder of the Church of Satan. If you did not know that, look up a picture of them. You've probably seen them before. Bald head, goatee. Look at that guy. You know what does bug me about all Satanist is if you just look up photos of prominent ones or meetings, they're always doing these faces. I mean, actually, ironically, the only one I've ever seen smile in a picture is the current High Priestess. His name is Peggy, which I think is adorable. Sure. This cute old lady. Yeah, I know you're not that old, but she's like, oh, really? Old lady? Yeah. Oh, no. She smiles in photos, but every other picture, their eyes are big and they're frowning or they're licking their teeth or something. Yeah. Come on. I was on the Church of Satan website yesterday, and I saw a picture of some Satanists all smiling, but it was because Anton Lavey had a naked woman over his knee and was thanking her. So they do smile in some pictures. Okay. Yeah. Well, that makes sense. So Levy was born. Howard LeVay. Howard Stanton LeVay in 1930 in Chicago. And the more I read about him in his early years, supposed early years, the more he sounded like L. Ron Hubbard. Yeah, kind of, because L. Ron Hubbard and Anton LeVay both, if you ask them about their backgrounds, they'll tell you one thing. If you ask someone else mothers like Lawrence Wright, who does research, they say, I really can't find any evidence of this stuff that they claimed. Yeah. I mean, if there was anyone who subscribed to lying just as much as you possibly could as a form of showmanship, anton Lave is definitely that guy. Yeah. So he says that he had a very colorful upbringing. He worked at a circus. He worked at sideshows. He was a police photographer, which may have been true. He was a very talented organist who worked burlesque shows. If you ask other people who have done research, they say no. Kennel was this suburban kid in suburban San Francisco. Not super interesting. One thing that everyone will say, though, is that he was interested in the occult. He was interested in pulp horror novels and magazines like Lovecraft Lovecraft. And he was very much turned off by the double standards what he perceived to be the double standards of mainstream Christianity. Right. Because supposedly he would play in these burlesque shows and see all these men there, then the next day see them in the churches. And that had a real impact on him, supposedly, that he was just like, this is BS. Yes. He didn't like phonies. Didn't like phonies. Phonies drove him crazy. M and Holden Caulfield. Right. So in the 1960s and this is kind of like with O. Ron Hubbard again, lavey started hosting these lectures on paranormal, and he had a lot of flair, and everyone was like, man, who is this guy? He's really got something. He's kind of cool, and he talks about things like indulging in all the worldly things. You shouldn't feel bad about it. You should masturbate and have sex and have sex with tons of people at once. If you want and just do whatever pleases you. It's fine. Don't worry about it. Sure. And so people in the 60s were like there was a time in the late 60s where he was there's this great article in the Telegraph when Satanism seduced Hollywood or something like that. Where it was sort of the thing to be a Satanist and to go to these parties because you would go in and there would be drugs and drink and nakedness like Eyes Wide Shut up in there. Right. And everyone from some of the Beach Boys to Sammy Davis Jr. To Liberatchi. Liberace was a Satanist. He said he was for a while. I didn't know that. Sammy Davis Jr. Definitely was. Even had a TV pilot that he tried to get made about like a sitcom that was Satan friendly, that he worked for the devil or something. We have to find that it was supposed to be really bad and they only made one of them. Oh, so there is so it's out there somewhere. Well, supposedly he made a pilot that never went beyond that. Got you. Jane Mansfield was another famous statenist. Yeah. So it was a big thing. And Charles Manson kind of ruined all that. Oh, yeah, as far as Manson ruined a lot as far as it being cool to go to the Church of Satan. But at any rate, LeVay was making waves and in 1966 created officially the Church of Satan 69 published The Satanic Bible, which is pretty interesting to read through. I haven't read it all, but I read quite a bit of passages. So one of the things that he's accused of is plagiarism. Yeah, for sure. And his adherents still to this day, they kind of acknowledge it a little bit, but they more put it like no, he was building on an earlier work that he didn't really give credit to. But there was a book so he wrote The Satanic Bible in 69, published in there was a book published in 1890, I think it was called Might is Right. And it was written pseudonymously by a guy named Ragnar Redbeard. Ragnar Redbeard wrote this book and it was extremely into social Darwinism. It was individualistic to the point of being anarchistic. It had all of the requisite 1890s racism and sexism attendant to it as well. Sure. But the point of it was, why would you love your enemies? This whole doctrine of love is BS. We're animals. And if you have an enemy, you should go out and beat him up because he's your enemy. You don't need to love him, you need to love yourself. And it was really just a surprising book that apparently still a lot of people read today. And apparently Anton Lever read it and sounds like it adopted a lot of it. But then he also wrote a lot about ritual and stuff as well and prescribed certain kinds of rituals in the Satanic Bible and supposedly the three main types of rituals of greater magic. There's greater magic and lesser magic, but in the greater magic rituals, there is compassion. And that's not just for others, but also yourself. There's lust and then there is destruction. Yes. And all of them are meant as they're meant for you. The person doing this, they're meant for you. They're meant as called the intellectual decompression chamber, where you can just get rid of this baggage that you've got. And they're like, it's nothing more than this little psychodrama that you're performing for yourself to just make yourself feel better. Yeah. Like, lust is to release your sexual urges. Like they'll say, Christianity teaches you to repress all that stuff that ain't no good for you, right? You need to go release these urges. Yeah. You're walking around with all this stuff that's, like, hanging on you. Get rid of it so you can go be happy and stop dwelling on the thing. It's the same with destruction. Cleansing oneself of anger towards someone who has done you an injustice. Why sit on that, right? Deal with it. You're sitting there stewing about it. Smash the face. Go put on your velvet robe. Well, no, but that's something that Satanism has long been accused of, is like, being violent toward others. And I don't think that they say, like, no, don't be violent toward others. They even say, like, you certainly don't owe anybody being nice to them or anything like that. But I haven't seen any overt calls to violence. It just seems to be like, if that's what you deem is right, as long as you're following these other prescribed paths that seem to kind of avoid violence, that it's more just like you. It's centered on you, and you need to focus on yourself. And if you focus on yourself, then you're probably going to stop wanting to smash that other guy in the face because you're going to get rid of that baggage. Can I read the Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth, please? Number one, do not give opinions or advice unless you were asked. Okay, not bad. Number two do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them. Not bad. Number three, when in another's lair, show him respect, or else do not go there. Yeah, respect someone's home. Number four, if a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy. Number five, do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal. That's sort of that's a 60s way of saying, I'm down with affirmative consent. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved. Okay, don't rob people of stuff. Relieve me of this glass of Diet Coke. I can't stop drinking it. Number seven, acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If. You deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained. That's a little fruity. I didn't even hear that full when I trailed off so long. Number eight, do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself. And finally yeah, that's a good I think that one bears repeating. Oh, wait, I say finally that's only number eight. You want me to repeat that? Please do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself. Yes. Number nine, do not harm little children. You should probably repeat that one, too. Do not harm little children. Because that's a big deal. There are these people that think, like, you sacrificed children and you perform sex with children, and that's what Satanists do. And they're like, no, we're not into that at all. No. One of the things the Satanic Temple who will talk about in a little while point out is that there have been a lot of cases of people who are supposedly exercising demons from children who have actually harmed and in fact killed children, and that there's no doubt. I think we talked about this in the Satanic panic episode, too. There's no documented cases of Satanists harming children, right? Is there against and in fact, they won't even accept anyone under the age of 18 into the Church of Satan. Yeah, because self consent is extremely important to Satanists of all stripes. The idea of being forced into indoctrinated into any church before you can make a decision for yourself really goes against the idea of individual liberty. And thus Satanic thought. Number ten, do not kill non human animals. Because like you said, they called humans animals, too. In fact, they said that we're not much better even than animals. No, just an animal reminder. It is do not kill nonhuman animals unless you are attacked or for your food. Like if a cheetah pounces on you, kill it. If you want to eat the cheetah, kill it. And then finally, drumroll eleven Satanic rules of the Earth. When walking into open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him. Nice. Sounds like a tenacious d lyric. It does. But the way you counted down, it was like a Letterman list. I like that. That was good. Man, I miss Dave. I wonder how many longtime listeners we've lost at this episode. I don't know. You want to take another break? Yeah, I mean, there's still so much more, but we got a break at some point. Yeah, we're going to take a break. All right, Chuck, we're back with Satan. Remember the kids in the hall? Oh, yeah. Kevin McDonald, I think was satan. Was that him? Yeah. So we've been talking a little bit about the philosophies of the Church of Satan. Just real quickly. There are nine Satanic sins. And again, I hate to say it, but this is sort of appealing to my brain. The nine Satanic sins are stupidity, pretentiousness solipsism, selfdeceat heard conformity, lack of perspective, forgetfulness forgetfulness of past orthodoxies, counterproductive pride, and lack of aesthetics. A lot of those are really tough to explain. I don't think so. Anton Levee, well, some of them are pretty self evident, but forgetfulness of past orthodoxies. Lavey wrote this list in 1987 and it's on the Church of Satan website. If you're interested, go check it out because some of you are like, oh yeah, it kind of makes sense. 87 67 87 I saw. Oh, really? Well, it's copyrighted. So the takeaway is that what the Church of Satan and Levayan Satanism, right. What it really is is atheistic antichristian ideals. Well, that is something that you said that's really important. The Church of Satan, specifically the one founded by Anton LeVay, has positioned itself as counter to Christianity. It really does not like Christianity. Right. And as a result, it's allowed itself to kind of be drawn into a lot of sedanticness and arguments that it shouldn't. It almost seems like they feel they need to justify themselves because of putting themselves in that position. So if that kind of turns you off, well, then, friends, you're going to love the Satanic Temple. Yeah. And if you were interested in that, you can become a member of the Church of Satan by sending $200 to a PO box right. That you can find on their website. But you get a membership card and that's it. That's all you get. Yeah. And there's actually a lot of criticism among Satanists of the Church of Satan because they haven't done anything for a really long time. And a lot of people give credit to Levy for founding the Church of Satan and that while he was alive, the church was thriving. But after he died, the Church kind of died with him in the eyes of a lot of Satanists, especially Satanic Temple adherence that I've seen. Yeah. It's now headed by Peter Gilmore, who I think John Hodgman is actually sort of a pal of his. Now, I believe that I have to say it showed a lot of restraint by Peter Gilmore not to change his name to Peter grimmore. And then, as I mentioned earlier, peggy Nadrami is the High Priestess right now. Yeah. But I agree. Moving on to the Satanic Temple, it's pretty fun because they have something out there called the Satanic Children's Big Book of Activities. I think it was given to me by Matt Frederick. It was given to me by someone, but it's called the Satanic Children's Big Book of Activities. And it's wonderful. We talked about that for sure on Internet roundup. Yeah, for sure. And that was just like one in a string of I don't want to say countless, because if I bothered to, I could count them. But there's like a string of basically Satanic based political projects that the Satanic Temple is taken on that really kind of define who they are. Right. They are part performance art, very much political activists, and are trying to basically use they say that they're using Satanism, although they all subscribe to philosophical atheistic, human, secularism Satanism, minus the social Darwinism right. And the Iranran libertarianism. Yes. They're using Satanism, though, in the popular conception as a poison pill for the church versus state debate. Right? Yeah. And you can also buy shirts and hoodies and coffee mugs. So with this, they use this poison pill, this list of projects. One of them was the Satanic Children's Activity Book, which they printed up to distribute at schools. I think there was a school in Florida where Christian evangelists were handing out pamphlets at a public school. So the Satanist said, oh, well, great. Well, if they can do it, then any religion can do it because the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of any religion or endorsement of religion by the government, so we can go do it too. So they start handing out Satanic stuff and anytime the Satanists roll into town and say us too, that usually means that the local city council or the state even puts an end to the implicit Christian endorsement of what's going on. Like sanctioned Christian endorsement via politics. Yeah. And by the way, when I say that children's workbook is wonderful and if you're out there going, why would you say that? Go check it out. It's literally stories about kids being more accepting of others and being friendly and sharing and it's like any children's book, but the kids wearing like pentagram T shirts right. Stuff. Which makes me wonder, like, what about this? Why call themselves that? It seems like they just I know they're trying to rabble rouse and get attention, but I think they might get a little further or maybe that's the whole point. I think we'll in part using it as the this actually happened. There's a town in Arizona, I'm not sure which one, but they had a habit of opening their city council meetings with a Christian prayer, right? Well, most likely every single person in that town that the city council represents is not Christian. Right. But since there was some landmark court ruling, I can't remember when, maybe 2014, or the Supreme Court said, no, it's actually okay as long as they don't prohibit any religions from doing this. The Satanist showed up and said, well, here comes Satanist. We're going to give a benediction to open up your city council meeting. And the city council said, okay, nobody's going to do prayers anymore. Well, that's kind of what their job is, right? To shut it down. But if they just did it like, well, the secular humanists are here and we're going to say a prayer, they'd be like, well, who cares? That's fine. But the people who are so afraid of Satanists are so afraid of Satanists that they would rather stop the city council implicitly endorsing the Christian prayer than to allow the Satanic prayer as well. That's how it works. Yeah. And it's the same with the statue in Oklahoma. We said, oh, well, you're going to put up your statue. We're going to put up one of what's it called? Baffamat baffamat. Which again, I know you've seen the statue, we both love it just because it's so cool looking. Looks like the cover of some great heavy metal album. It does. But it's like 9ft tall. Yeah. The two kids looking up, Adoringly and Chuck, the Satanic Temple has another thing going on right now, too, the new initiative that they started. Right. Which is the after school satan club. And again, I have to laugh, it just sounds funny, but what it is, it's an after school curriculum to teach reasoning and social skills to kids. And again, as a counter, something called the Good News Club, which is an evangelical Christian after school program. So again, they're saying, you got yours, we'll have ours. Yeah. And there's another 2001 Supreme Court ruling that said, you know what? Sure. We can have religious after school programs and the floodgates open. And the Lucian Grieves, whose name is Doug Mesner, he's one of the founders of the Satanic Temple, he says we're doing this because the Good News Club is creating a need for it. If they were just doing this in churches rather than public schools, we wouldn't have our after school state and Club. But they are. So we are. Yeah. Here's a quote. While the Good News Club focuses on indoctrination instilling children with the fear of hell and God's wrath, after School Satan Clubs will focus on free inquiry and rationalism. We prefer to give children appreciation of the natural wonders surrounding them, not a fear of an everlasting otherworldly horror. However, being a member of the Satan Temple or the Church of Satan is not to say that you can just be very much out with it these days. A lot of those folks, even if they are really just secular humanist, atheist at heart, they do want to associate with the Satanic Temple of Church of Satan. A lot of times they'll still keep it quiet, keep it a secret because people don't get what it's about. And they will think, well, again, people still believe that they have blood sacrifice and sacrifice animals and eat the hearts out of goats and things like that. Right. And there have been people in history who have killed in the name of Satan. Sure. And that's who people point to and say, see, Satan is a killer. It's like, no, that person was out of their mind. Yeah, they were mentally ill or they were pretending to be mentally ill so that they would get a lighter sentence and that's what they were doing, that they weren't actual Satanists. Again, a true Satanist will point out that Satanists are atheists, right. That they see Satan as a construct, as a metaphor shorthand for something that goes against the norms that questions the establishment and says, how do you know what you're saying is right? Who says, yeah, and we don't even worship Satan per se. We really, if you want to say anything, worship ourselves as individual gods. Peter Gilmore calls it atheism that's. Catchy, isn't it? The lower case I he's like, yes, Gilmore, you genius. What did you say his name should have been? grimmore. grimmore or Gilmore. Yes. Richard Ramirez. David Berkowitz, son of Sam, talked about demons. Ricky Castle, famously in the was an American teen who killed someone in the name of Satan. And much to Angus Young Chagrin was hauled into court with his AC D-C-T shirt on. Right, we're not going to get too much into this because you can go listen to our great episode on the Satanic Panic of the 80s from January 5, 2016. But in short, it was a time where people like Ozzy Osborne and Judas Priest were making use of Satanic imagery purely for gags and selling records. None of it was. I mean, today there are some legit, creepy, dark metal bands that are very much more overt with their lyrics and things, but I think Ozzy Osbourne has definitely been outed as not some Satan worshipping ghoul. Anyone who's ever seen him on television can tell you that. Yeah, it bears fleshing out. There are, like, supposedly the goth scene in Germany in particular, where neo Nazism and neo paganism kind of come together. A lot of people point to that as some sort of neo Satanism. But again, if you're talking about Satanism with a capital S as an atheistic philosophy and somebody murdering in the name of Satan holds about as much water as somebody murdering in the name of the Easter Bunny. You got anything else? Yeah, just let me finish with a passage from the Satanic Bible on love. Satanism has been thought of as being synonymous with cruelty and brutality. This is only so because people are afraid to face the truth. And the truth is that human beings are not all benign or all loving. Just because the Satanist admits he is capable of both love and hate, he is considered hateful. On the contrary, because he is able to give vent to his hatred through ritualized expression, he is far more capable of love, the deepest kind of love, by honestly recognizing and admitting to both the hate and the love he feels. There is no confusing one emotion with the other. Without being able to experience one of these emotions, you cannot fully experience the other. Well, either Dr. Seuss or Anton LeVay. Yeah, that's zoroastrian dualism if I've ever heard it. Yeah, well, if you want to know more about Satanism, well, go look up this article. It's a grabster article on housetofworks.com, and since I said grabs, there's time for listener mail. Oh, hello. Chuck Bryant and Josh Clarke. Hello. Very formal on stuttering. I've stuttered for most of my life. I say most of my life because it started when I was five. As you mentioned your show, there are several different ways it can happen. I would always try to think of a different word to use when I got stuck, and that would result in very strange sounding sentences. I would define stuttering as inability to coordinate breath flow with words. Blocking on a word or sound would often result in a cessation of breathing entirely. Kind people often tell me that stuttering does not bother them. But the fact is, when I stutter, my internal reaction is that I feel and sound like a fool. Rationally, I know that is not true, but that is what I often feel nonetheless. And of course, unkind people abound. And I often heard as a child reactions like, don't you know what you want from other kids and adults? Laughter and derision. Often I'd hear just sing it. And while it's true that singing and speaking are operated by different parts of the brain, life is not a musical. And besides, I hate musicals. So at the age of 67, I would never have thought that I'd end up talking on the phone and dealing with the public for a living. I still occasionally stutter and sometimes feel pretty badly, but I've learned to just live with it. Sometimes feel as I get older, I just don't give a darn anymore. That allows me to relax and stutter less. That is a perk of aging. Sure. Not caring. Yes. Stress brings it out and does SS talking about my difficult and bizarre childhood. I'm a singer. I'm one of the resident shanty singers at the National Maritime Historical Park at Hyde Street. Pierre in San Francisco. Right. And have performed in front of large audiences. Singing is not a problem, but introducing songs can be. You might say I'm the mel tillis traditional song. And that lovely email was from Richard Adrianawitz. Thank you, Richard. I love that one. Yeah, good one. Nice. And everybody who's in San Francisco go down to Fisherman's Wharf and see Richard. Yeah. Check out the show. The Mel tillis of Shanty singing. I love it. If you want to get in touch with us, you can send us an email. Send it off to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My HeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, you." | |
How Triage Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-triage-works | Triage is a system that provides immediate attention and categorization for medical emergencies that hopefully will never be a big part of your life. Unless you work in an ER. Learn all about the interesting history and current methods for this life savin | Triage is a system that provides immediate attention and categorization for medical emergencies that hopefully will never be a big part of your life. Unless you work in an ER. Learn all about the interesting history and current methods for this life savin | Tue, 26 Jul 2016 16:55:40 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2016, tm_mon=7, tm_mday=26, tm_hour=16, tm_min=55, tm_sec=40, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=208, tm_isdst=0) | 41529404 | audio/mpeg | "This episode of Stuff You Should Know is sponsored by Squarespace. Whether you need a landing page, a beautiful gallery, a professional blog or an online store, it's all possible with the Squarespace website. Go to squarespace.com and set your website apart. Heart. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. And there's Chuck Bryant. And there's Jerry. And it's stuff you should know. How's it going? Pretty good. You like my Scotland shirt? That's great. You're going to wear that in Scotland? Yeah, that's why I got it. Okay. I got a shirt for each city. Nice. Scotland. Well, Edinburgh. Yeah, that's the city. Yeah. I think they'll be behind the Scotland shirt in Edinburgh. I think they will, too. They're going to stand up and do that arsenio like yeah, because they're living in the 80s. Yes. I bought a shirt for each city on our UK tour because I can write it off and that's just a very me thing to do. Yeah. I'll keep the Manchester shirt a secret. I know what it is. Do you? I think so. All right, we'll talk later. Okay. In the meantime. Chuck yeah. Let's talk about triage. Let's talk about the French language means to sort. Do you know that? Which means that Lars von Trierar's name is Lars van to. Sort. Yeah. Sort or sift. I saw another meaning, but everywhere else said sort. And apparently it was originally used exclusively in reference to sorting vegetables. Oh, really? Yeah. Little known fact, but the preindustrial French society was agrarian, so they would say vegetable care, and that means and they snap their fingers in point or a pile of vegetables. Sort. Veggies. Root veggies in France? Yes. Well, they have those everywhere. But they're bonkers for root veggies in France. Sure. They have good, clean, simple food in that country. Yeah, good food, yeah. What's it called, the French food? Not the trinity. That's like a cajun, but the mere pois. I've not heard that before. Yes. Is it the same thing? No, I think mere, pois, carrot, onion. And one other thing. Parsley. Celery. Celery. Jerry. Cecile. Jerry. I think you're right. Are you right? You know you're right. Okay. In cajun land, it's like bell pepper, onion and what? Garlic? It wouldn't be garlic. I was trying to think of something funny and I failed at my brain. Just like when it yes, well, it's late in the day. Trying to think of something about an angel. Heart reference. Man, that movie is crazy. Yeah. Still holds up. I saw it really well, actually, I can't say it holds up because I never saw it as a kid. I saw it as an adult recently. I think it's still on Netflix. Lisa Bonet is in the season of Ray Donovan and she looks exactly the same. Yeah. Vampire, perhaps. Very pretty lady. Always crushed on her big when I was a kid. Oh, yeah, sure. And she's super laid back. What was it? Lisa Huxtable. Yeah, for sure. Her name wasn't Lisa Huxtable. It was something Huxtable. Well, probably not, because her real name is Lisa. Yes. Sometimes shows, like, use the actor's first name as the character's name, even though they're not playing themselves. Yeah. I always thought that was weird. Yeah. I always wonder if it's because they have a hard time remembering their characters name or the writers. Like, I just can't come up with a name. Just call them the real name. Okay. Sue me. And I know people get so tired of screaming at us about like, oh, what was the name of that? And they're like, her name was this. I do that to other podcasts, so I feel your pain. Sure. I heard one just the other day, I think Judge John Hodgman, he couldn't think of something. I was like, no. Navy blue. Yeah. Anyway, I apologize for all the things we don't know. Trier to sort was to sort root vegetables, the foundation of the term triage. Yeah. And the reason why the French got naming rights for this process that we'll describe in a minute is because it was basically invented by a French person. Yeah. Pretty remarkable guy, from what I can tell. He had a great name. He was Napoleon's surgeon. The Chief Surgeon of Napoleon's Imperial Guard. His name was Baron Dominique Jean Larry. Yeah. And he was a bad dude in all the best ways. He was. And this was at a time when warfare was getting pretty serious. It was already serious, but people were dying, mass amounts of people, soldiers dying on the field and great numbers. And so he said, you know what? We need to come up with a system, a way to take care of these dudes so they're not waiting over there with the bone sticking out of their leg, waiting for attention. Well, this dude also, I mean, he came to this conclusion because he was running around battlefields, like performing amputations. Sure. Just in a sea of bodies. Yeah. Like bite on your gun barrel while I cut your leg off. That kind of thing. Yeah. Barrel but stock. Sure. You could bite on your barrel, but needing your teeth. Sure. The wood is much more comfortable when you're having your leg amputated without anesthetic. I would say so. But while he's running around performing these battlefield amputations, he realizes quite quickly that some people are in need of help more urgently than others. And he decided it would be pretty awesome if you could figure out a way, like you were saying, to devise a system of arranging people very quickly so that you could give aid to the people who needed it most. And to do that, you would need to sort through the people, hence triage, as if they were root vegetables. So what he did initially and it's gone through some changes that we're going to talk about, but the initial incarnation of triage was only based on severity of injuries, no other factor. Well, even before that, this is another reason this guy is awesome. There was a very vague form of triage before, but it was based on your social standing. Oh, really? So, yeah, I was reading that, like, if you have, of course, a guy who's like an aristocrat with a broken leg yeah. And just a grunt whose bowels are hanging out, you fix the broken leg first, which is senseless. And Larry was like, no, we're not going to do that anymore. It's going to be based on severity of injury. Oh, nice. Yeah. Or need for help. And Napoleon was like, that's great, but I'm at the top of the list no matter what. Right, yeah. Hey, have you heard people calling me the Antichrist behind my back? Because I've been hearing rumblings about this and it's bugging me. You know, I'm not really sure I'm average. Yeah, that's true. And the process went on to change a little bit more with British surgeon, naval surgeon John Wilson. Right. In 1846, he said, you know what, let's refine this a little bit and let's put some focus on people who can be successfully treated. So not necessarily. That guy's got all his bowels hanging out, he's the most severely injured. He thought, well, you know what? That guy might not make it right, so maybe we shouldn't spend so much time. It's harsh, but it's war. It is. And that was a huge shift, because up to that point, if you were a medic, like, you just treated people, now you have a decision to make with each person. Do you let that person die? Because they're probably going to die and you could be saving other people rather than wasting your talents and resources on this person right here. Yeah. Make them comfortable, maybe throw some morphing their way and then go about your business. That was a big shift in triage, in battlefield triage, and in the US, we didn't catch up very quickly by the Civil War. So that guy Larry was working on triage inventing it in the 1790s. John Wilson refined it in the 1840s in the Civil War. Still, we were doing, like, first come, first serve. Whoever was closest to the medic was who got worked on first in the Civil War in the 1860s. Still crazy. It wasn't until, I think, the late 1860s or early 1870s, that the US first started adopting even basic triage. So Britain led the way in this case. Well, France. Well, then Britain. Then Britain. Yeah, france led the way in Mercy. Britain led the way in saying, like, no, we got to let some people die here. Right. Well, I would say efficiency and saving lives overall. Yeah, that was the idea. I mean, it's a very utilitarian way of looking at and they're like, you got to have nerves of steel, got to have a kung fu grip. World War One. Things changed again. They tweaked it and now they said, all right, maybe we should treat. And do you know if this was what country this was, or just generally this is a US Army manual. It was, but apparently the US wasn't alone in this. It seems like a worldwide movement shift right. In triage, which was to treat how many people can you treat in the shortest amount of time? Yeah. So maybe people that don't need as much but are saveable. Yeah. And the basis of this is even more steely nerve than John Wilson's shift, because this is saying not ignore that person, they're probably going to die. This person is going to die. So you could probably save too much time, but it's going to take up too much time and the time that it takes to save this person's life. And you probably could save it. You could have fixed up twelve people who weren't going to die, but can get back out and fight the war a lot faster if you work on them. And that was, I think, the thinking behind it, patching up people who are more likely to be able to return to battle rather than saving lives of people who might not be able to, or who would take up a lot of time, hard choices. That's super utilitarian. That was, like you said, a surgical manual out of the military at the time said this, quote, a single case, even if it urgently requires attention, may have to wait for in that time, a dozen others, almost equally accident but requiring less time, might be cared for. And four people died. While I read that on the battlefield, it could have really suffered up quicker. Yeah. Should we take a little break? Sure, man. All right, my friend. We've been talking about the battlefield so far and its history. Yeah, that was the origin of it. But if you go to the Er and actually, I haven't been to the Er much at all in the last jeez much at all in my life. That's good. But since I was a kid but I did go to New York, remember? Oh, yeah, that's right. When I got sick. Yeah. I went to the emergency room in New York City, beth Israel, and it was man, it was a little scary, like the scene there. Sure, yeah. It wasn't like I'm sort of used to the hospitals around here. Kind of nicer. It had seen its better days. I got you the Er room and the waiting room, and it's sad to see the people that are in there that need help in a big city like that. It's not like my kid fell down and bumped his head. Right. It's like, disturbing. I can imagine I'll just say that. Yeah. But I was triaged when I first got there, and that's what will happen to you when you go to an Er. There's going to be a triage nurse. Somebody runs up to you so it's glitter in your face and said you've been triaged. That's after someone already threw molasses on your face. Glitter would make sure it sticks. Yeah. So triage nurse is going to come by and that dude, that lady, is going to say, hi, welcome to Beth Israel. Sorry about the mess. Let's check you out. Watch your stuff. There's some blood. Seriously, it's kind of like that. And they will do an assessment. They're going to look at you and say, this guy has a spoon coming out of his ear, so I can make a snap judgment that you need quick help. Yeah. Or this dude, in my case, was just holding his belly and so he looks like he can wait. Yeah, he looks like he just needs to shoot a duck. He can stay here and hold that for a little while. Right. She said, Here, let me pull your finger. Everything will be all right. And there's what you're describing, this Er triage, that's done by a triage nurse, right. About the first person you see when you come to an Er, when they're doing triage, it's not constant, necessarily. They have been trained to do this, but they're also following flow charts. There's triage protocols, different ones, and there's one from Manchester, UK, and from what I understand, the international gold standard for triage. Oh, yeah. The Manchester Triage system. Wow. It's like a band. Yeah. It is like Manhattan transfer, sort of. But it's a flow chart and it basically says, like, Are they breathing? No. Get them immediate help. Stop right now and immediately get them into a place where life saving intervention can be carried out. Right. And there's some other ones, but it seems like breathing is the focus of it. That's good. Yeah, it is. But, I mean, if you think about it, you would think there would be some other ones, too. Like, is there blood coming out of their ear or something like that? No, it's mostly breathing. Like, if you're breathing, then you're alive. There's a pretty good chance you're going to make it, especially if you have a normal breathing pattern. Right. But then there's some other ones. Like if the person's not responsive or if they're drooling right. Apparently is another one. There are a couple of drillers in the Er at Beth Israel. They should have been seen immediately, according to the Manchester triage system. So there's like a flow chart. It's not necessarily just the nurse's subjective judgment. It's not supposed to be. I'm sure it is. In high stress situations, and with really highly trained triage nurses, they can just be like, yeah, move that person. There you go, sit down. Yeah. They see, no, you go home. But for the most part, it's supposed to be an objective system, right, that you can just consult and be like, oh, okay, well, here's where you fit. Yeah. Piece of paper. You're so smart. Why don't you just triage everybody yourself? Well beyond the initial flow chart, too? They're also going to take some vitals, hear your complaint and your medical history, allergies all that good stuff. Medications you might be on, and then take your vitals, blood pressure, temperature, all that good stuff. Yeah. If you're not in that group where they're just like, send them right back. Yes. And by the way, I'm not knocking Beth Israel, because Nurse Eddie, there this dude, the guy who didn't believe that you were sick. Yeah, a little bit. He was amazing and took wonderful care of me and was like the typical New York nurse that you might think of. Sure. This sort of like he had the accent and he was like a very kind of cool customer dude. I would have felt very comfortable walking into his arms like a gunshot, because I'm sure he could have totally taken care of me, but he did. He's a little like they couldn't figure out what was wrong with me at first. Right. And then after I got better and they knocked me out and gave me fluids and I woke up, I was like, all right, great, I'm out of here. And I felt this lump. Remember that? I felt a lump behind my ear the size of a golf ball. And I walked back in. I was like, Nurseti, dude, what is this? And he kind of gave me one of those looks like, oh, you're one of those guys. And I was like, I'm not a hypochondriac or med seeking. I'm never at the doctor. I've never been to the Er. Hardly. Like, please don't look at me. Those eyes. Nurse Eddie. Yeah. And he felt it, and I was like, See, it's? Like, it's huge. And I think he determined that it was some kind of like he had a doctor come over and they determined it was just a swelling of lymph node. Yeah. Brought on by hypochondria. Yeah, brought on by my sickness. But anyway, big shout out. Turned out to be you had snakes in your belly. Yeah, I passed out on the subway, woke up two days later in Coney Island, and I had 13 snakes in my belly. No more, no less. So weird. Yeah. So they gather these details in the triage. Doesn't take long. They use a color coded system in some hospitals, numbers in some or both. Depends on where you are. Yeah. This is astounding to me. It's not universal. The colors aren't universal. Numbers seem to be like, nobody does it backwards, but the color should be the exact same, too. I agree. So, for example, in Manchester's, jam, like, the worst of all is red. Makes sense. No, another trio system. Blue is the worst. Code blue. Yeah. I think you hear that a lot on American TV, but it's a real thing, at least in the States. So I think that everybody should get together and agree on a color system, right? Because the whole point of triage is rapid fire. Let's get this done. What system did you triage them? Because I enjoy a spot of tea, so I'm a fan of the Manchester system. So this red is completely odd to me. Yeah, but you know, the one your hospital uses, so you're probably not getting confused as the triage nurse. Yeah, yeah, I guess it's true. But I know what you mean. You should go out of your way to take out any possible yeah. You get transferred to another hospital. Yeah. I think there should be universal colors. I agree. I have a strong opinion on that. I totally agree. If you're a kid, you may get sent to closer to the front of the line, or if you have a history of illness or you have cancer or something. Like if you have an outstanding condition already, you may be shuffled to the front. And this makes a lot of sense to me. A lot of times now they have what they call a different track. They have two tracks? Yeah. If you're in severe distress, you're in one, get to you right away. But if you have another one, doesn't necessarily mean you're going to wait 8 hours. They'll just put you in a different track for the less severe cases. Yeah. You go see the doctor who's been caught drinking on the job. That's right. All right, well, let's talk about those color codes since you mentioned it. Okay. Here in the US. Code Blue, like you said, is the most that means come right away. I understand the use of blue. Like they're turning blue. Yes, scionic. Okay. Right. It makes sense. But again, red makes sense too. Yeah. You hear Code Red and that doesn't sound great. It doesn't make me think like, oh, they'll be fine. Well, Code Red is category two, though, so it is serious. Okay. That means they require immediate attention, but they're just not blue. Right. They're still breathing. Then what do you got? You got orange mid level. Okay. You got gray, which means you're sick. But it's like a bad cold, really. Gray should be the worst. If you're gray, you've already passed blue. That's true. You're a cadaver. And then the least urgent is green, which just means you want someone to love you. It means you're med seeking. Yeah. You shouldn't be in the Er, basically. Right. And that's not a joke. That literally means you don't have an emergency. Right. If you are deemed Code Green Five, do they send you home? Yeah, or else it will be like there's a minute clinic down the street. Go there. You're wasting valuable resources here. Okay? Go away. So then across the pond under the Manchester scale, the worst is code red, followed by code orange, then code yellow, then code green, then code blue, then code Earl gray. Wow. Code Blue is the least yes. Yeah. So you got a point. Like, you can't have one color be the worst possible thing and one color be the least dangerous, especially in an increasingly globalized world. Yeah, I don't like it either. What can we do? Should we start a movement? Yes, we should. Online petitions. How does that get done? Or just yell about it on Facebook? I think the Facebook one, that's the best shot we have. That's how you accomplish things. Yeah. Triage. We talked about battlefield, we talked about regular er. But then there's, of course, when bad things happen, like in New York when that building exploded. Yeah. Those are called incident triage. Yeah. Like a natural disaster or something. Yeah. That Harlem Explosion, right? It's a gas explosion in Harlem. Yeah. So triage works anytime there's a scarcity of resources in a high demand for medical care. Yeah, that's a good way to say it's. Healthcare rationing. It's saying that we don't have enough resources for all you people, so we're going to have to figure out who's worst. Right. And you're supposed to do it very quickly, but yeah. With incident triage, there's actually a really clever thing called the METTAG, and that article you sent was awesome. It was a fast code design article that's really neat. There's basically a triage code system that's used out in the field that you'll see people who are victims of, like, an explosion or a plane crash or something like that, and they'll have tags around their necks with a color code attached. And it was invented by a guy named Robert Bludgett in Jacksonville, Florida, in the early 1960s in response to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Yeah, I thought that was so interesting. Yeah, it did not exist. He was a civil defense director, and America was super scared, especially Florida at the time, because the Soviet Union had nuclear missiles pointed at us right off the coast, 90 miles off the coast of Florida. And people were freaking out. Yeah. And he was one of them. He wasn't freaking out. He seemed like a cool customer. Yeah, but he was definitely worried. But no, he doesn't seem like he was freaking. He wasn't running around going like, oh, my God, oh, my God. But he had a bomb shelter at his house. Sure. Don't you think anybody who was anybody had a bomb shelter back then? I think I mentioned before, my dad went to build one after the Day After movie, and it was his obsession for a month, like every Saturday for a month. I don't remember. Did he complete it? No, he got about a third of this dirt room dugout behind a wall. Like, my brother and I, basically we were the cheap labor. We were carrying buckets of dirt out in the woods. Yeah. He'd come down with, like a highlight and be like, how's it going down here? How's my project coming? He didn't drink, but yeah, he would come down with his buttermilk and cornbread I know, right? Yeah. Of course. He didn't finish it because you guys went on strike or something. No. A lot of people that probably saw the day after, a month later, they're, like, not so scared. That's an awesome story. So anyway, this guy has mr. Blodgett definitely had a completed shelter. Oh, yeah. There's no way he bailed. He probably swept it, like, every couple of days, even. Well, his deal was he made it. It was really pretty brilliant. It was a two sided laminated card, a lanyard, and he said, you know what? This thing needs to be kind of universal. So I'm going to put pictures and colors and things of a symbol that represents blood pressure and your sex and what time it is. Imagine those little clock on there. So anyone can read this thing no matter what happened. Right. And then you would be assigned a color code depending on the severity of your injury or illness. Right. Yeah. Just like in an Er, this lanyard around your neck, they would tear off the colors that you weren't. So it was progressive. Right. If you had one. I think it was green. You were fine. Yeah. No problems. And then it got progressively worse. And like you said, there were some pretty clever symbols, including, I think, on the green one, there's an ambulance with a circle with a slash through it. Like, don't even put this person on an ambulance. They're fine. They can probably help you out if you need assistance in, like, applying pressure to a wound. Right. Yeah, green is fine. It went all the way to black, and the black said morgue on it. And it said in this article, it was really unsettling that if you had a met tag around your neck and the only tag that was left was a black one yeah. Because they ripped them off one by one. Right. Or they could rip off, like, three. If it's new, it meant you're a goner. You might still be alive right now. You're about to die where you're laying right now. Oh, boy. Isn't that awful? Because it said morg on it, too. Yeah. So you could look and be like, oh, I imagine if you're in that kind of condition, you don't need that black tag to let you know that time is near. Yeah, probably not. But if you're holding out hope yeah. It does not help. No, that's good. You give up the ghost. But again, the whole idea of disaster or battlefield triage is a necessary kind of sad thing that you have to do to save more people. Yeah. It's the mercilessness of a compassionate profession. Yeah. All right, well, let's take a break and we'll talk a little bit more about these tags right after this stuff you should know. All right, so this guy, Mr. Blodgett, he actually sold these through. I don't know if he got the money. He didn't. I think he found somebody who is like, we can distribute these widely. Your idea will be set in stone, but we're keeping the money. The American Civil Defense Association is who he gave them to to sell. That's the impression I have. All right, well, good on him. Yeah. Hero. Hero. Anybody who gives up intellectual property right. Is a hero. Agreed. So it said here in the heyday that they were selling about 100,000 of these a year to agencies, which is no small number. And I didn't see how much they sold them for, though. They were in bulk, like scantron sheets or something. Yeah. Probably not a lot of money, but they went on to be refined years later in when was this? This was after the Oklahoma building explosion, right? Yeah, the bombing. Yeah. The Alfred P. Mira building. Is that pronounced right? Mura, I think. I'm pretty sure it's Mura. I just see out of the corner Jerry nodding and shaking her head. I don't know what means what. She's speaking circle. There was a LAPD fire department. Well, two guys, actually. Dennis Ortiz and his brother. And they were working, like I said, at La. County Fire Department. And were they on the scene in Oklahoma at the time or? No, they were moved by it. They were like, if something happened like that in La. Do we have the resources we need? That's pretty amazing. Yeah. So he went to get these tags from La. County and these met tags, he said, were basically disintegrating in my hand, I guess, because they were just so old. And he said there should be a new tag and this is sad, but also necessary for terrorist disasters and terrorist attacks. And it was a pretty great idea. So he now included this new tag with things like biological contamination, radioactive contamination, diagrams for blast injuries, personal property receipts, stuff like that. Yeah, it's like a trifold package. It's got everything, all the bells and whistles you need. Right. Including, basically, a revised, improved met tag. So a met tag for the new yeah. I think they're called smart tags now. Really smart. Everything. Yeah. Well, another thing they can do, too, is a lot of times you might not have these tags. So they'll literally go around with sharpies and write on people. In the case of a disaster, I wonder if people can feel you writing the word on your forehead or something. Yeah, I can feel you writing morgue on my forehead. I know what you're doing. That's not good. Did you ever play that game when you were little where you would draw on someone's back and you would try to guess what they were? I was always terrible at that. I was bad too, but it felt so good. I love back scratches. So it was always like, draw something really elaborate. Draw a Lorenzo tractor. That'd be wonderful. But Chuck, whether it's in an incident triage or an er triage or something like. That? Well, I should say in an Er triage, there's a spectrum of triage. Right. Yes. And Er is about the most calm, stable version of it, even a chaotic, crazy Er in a big city compared to, on the other end, the site of a massive disaster that's not just impacted a bunch of people, it's probably affected, like, the healthcare infrastructure as well. Yeah. Within that spectrum, there's different types of triage, and usually the worse it is, the faster your assessment has to be. Right. So, like, out on a battlefield, they've come up with basically a two point triage assessment. It's called the Field triage score. It's part of the Tactical Combat Casualty Care methodology, right? Yes. Where they feel your pulse and then they give you a rating of awareness on the Glasgow Coma Scale. Right. Which we covered in our coma. Yes. And apparently, if you put those together, it's a pretty good predictor of whether somebody's going to survive their injuries or not. So if you're out of it and your pulse is low, move along. That person is a goner in that situation. Wow. Whereas if that person came into an Er in the suburbs or a trauma center or something like that, they might have a really good chance of making it. But depending on the situation along that spectrum of triage, depending on where you are in that spectrum, physically, literally, you may just get passed over or you may have your life saved, man, you got to have nerves of steel to be a first responder. Yeah. And we should also say, too, once you're given a code, it's not static. Like, it can change. You can deteriorate over, you can wipe it off and switch tags with the person next to you. Right. But no, you're absolutely right to say, like, I want to save your life, but I can't. I've got to leave you there to die. Unbelievable. You're absolutely right. I mean, that's metal. Yeah. Not for me. That's metal in both spellings. Yeah, it is. Two DS and a T or a T. No, two TS and an L E. Oh, it's M-E-T-T-L-E. Yeah. Why do I think it was me DDL? Because it's like, meddling. If you went and rearranged everybody's met tags, that would be meddling. It's amazing. Metal and, like, metal. I know. It's amazing the amount of dopey things I say on the show and people still think I have anything to offer the world. I've got you beat by, like, four or five times, I think. I don't think so. I think so. All right, well, let's talk a little bit about what's well, we've talked about what's good about it. Pretty much everything. Because it will save, ultimately, more lives. Yeah, because it's critics. Well, yes. And a lot of times when you go to the Er, we're not talking battlefield or disaster, but when you go to the Er, you want to get seen as quickly as possible because it's the worst. Yeah. My thumb hurts. Yeah. It's taking so long. You look around and you're like, well, that person doesn't look so bad off. Why are they going in? Or I've been here for an hour. This guy just came in and he got seen and he doesn't look too bad. That kids breathing. Yeah. Why is he going ahead of me? Yes. Ers have to field a lot of complaints about wait times. And there's a lot of people who end up in what's called the LWBs category. Is that where they send complainers left without being seen? Some people just give up. They're like, Forget it, I'm not sitting around here any longer. I could see me doing that. Yeah. You just become indignant or you're like, I feel like eating some cereal. Well, I just don't like to wait. And maybe it would have to be something where it subsided enough to route, like, I think I'll be alright. Right. Not like an injury. Right. Unless I thought I could sew it up myself rambo style, which Emily's dad did once. What did he like? Soda cut in his arm himself one time with needle and thread. Did he put gunpowder in it and light it on fire to cauterize the red? He should have. I would have done it. And apparently they interviewed someone for our House to Forks article from our great children's hospital here, Scottish Wright. And this doctor said, especially at children's hospitals, a lot of upset parents sure. That don't really get the triage thing. Yeah. Well, there have been studies actually that there was one very famous study from the 1990s, I think, actually, and then there was such an outcry against it as far as criticism of the study went because the study's findings were very critical of the triage as a whole. Like the concept of it, that the authors actually wrote another study responding to the criticisms of their original study. Wow. And I was reading that and basically in the original study, they found that triage, when it's actually done, leads to longer wait times for the people who need the most immediate care, like gets in the way. Wow. And that it didn't have any impact on patient satisfaction, meaning people didn't feel like they were being cared for better than when they weren't exposed to triage. The people just said, this is what we found. A lot of people were like, this is a BS study. But it does make sense. There are critics to triage saying like, no, this is unnecessary, it's clumsy, it gets in the way. It's an extra layer, a barrier between a patient and treatment. So what should be someone's got to say, this guy's got a spoon in his ear. I think for the most part, the critics don't have an alternative. Okay. And that triage can help, but I think it's almost a cult of triage where like, yes, of course triage helps. You're an idiot for saying anything different. Scientists were saying, like, it's not perfect. Right. But I don't know what an alternative would be in the case of really scarce resources. Well, here's one. Not alternative, but one other way of doing things. And they did this at the Kaiser Permanent South Sacramento Medical Center. Kaiser Permanente. They forgot the e. Oh, they did? Kaiser Permanent is what they said here. What does permanente mean either? What is it? I think it means permanent and Spanish. Okay. Who's Kaiser? That means permanent in German. So the Permanent Permanent? No, that means delightful type of role. That's Permanent got you a German role forever. Four times. So they employed something from the lean the lean thinking principle in Japan and their businesses. Is this, like when they have people do, like, calisthenics and that kind of thing? Now, I don't know. I want to look into what that is. It sounds interesting. Well, it's like cutting down on waste, right? I'm sure the Japanese probably figured out a way to insert calisthenics into it. Actually, I might be thinking of China. No, Japanese are into the aesthetics. X two. Okay. So they use this lead methodology, and what they would do this makes a lot of sense. It was sort of like the two track thing, but if you have the minor injury, you actually have a doctor come out to the waiting room and treat you in the waiting room, or at least see you at first in the waiting room. And I think that definitely would give someone a sense of, well, I'm being tended to. At least I'm not just sitting over here holding my belly. Right. In pain. But it's also not like you're on track to go sit over there and wait for a bed to come open so you can see it's like there you don't have to wait for a bed. The doctor came to you instead. Yeah, that's a great idea. And they found it reduced the left without being seen rate from 4.5% to 1.5%, and the wait times fell by half. By 50%. Yeah, that's right. Wait times are one of my biggest complaints with modern medicine. Sure. It's the worst appointments. At one. You get in there at 215. Oh, man. You want to see me get mad? Stick me in a waiting room with Bad magazine. But if you got some mad magazines you're like, this is delightful. Sure. The other criticism of triage is that it shouldn't be done at all. That withholding care under any circumstances is unethical. So I just have, like, eight times as many doctors and nurses, I guess. Come on. If you want to know more about triage or sorting, you can type those words into the search bar athousepforks.com and since I said that, it's time for listening and mail. I'm going to call this lighthouse Follow Up. We got a lot of really great pictures and emails from lighthouse enthusiasts. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Including ones that were for sale. About my fantasy. Yeah. Are you going to now? How much are they? I didn't see. I don't know. I don't remember any prices. Look it up on Zillow. I bought like two of them and I didn't catch the price. You're just like, here's a bunch of money. Bring me those lighthouses. Hey, guys. I listened to your lighthouse episode and I'm so excited to hear. Last year, I visited every lighthouse on Oregon's coast. Wow. All six per state. Such a good year long goal. That's what she said. I agree. That's cool. Anyhow, I wanted to tell you about one of our coolest, in my opinion, is terrible. Tilly she was built on a rock a mile off shore and see pictures is really neat. It's like just out there in the middle of the ocean. Many men died trying to construct it in the 1870s, and many men died while keeping the light. It was decommissioned in 1957 and was sold after her sale. Till he became a graveyard, so to speak. Sailors would be cremated and have their ashes stored in the lighthouse during the seasonal storms. When the waves break into the lighthouse, the ocean chooses who she takes back with her to be buried in her bosom. Well, it's very poetic. It's pretty romantic in a Victorian or Gothic way. I totally agree. Thanks for all you guys do. I look forward to listening to your podcast every week. And I evangelize. Stuff you should know. The stuff you should know gospel to all my friends. And that is from Kendra. And Kendra used the word evangelize and bosom in the same email and Gothic, so that means straight to the top of the pile. Thanks a lot, Kendra. That was indeed a great email. If you want to get in touch with us, you can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on Facebook.com stuffyshow. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast athouseporp.com. And as always, join us at our home on the Web stuffyoushennow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetofworks.com. Summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good it's Criminal Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, Morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Erkart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this chart topping series will have you hooked before you know it. Listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | ||
8a342a80-4a58-11e8-a49f-a34ccb55fde4 | SYSK Selects: How Bullfighting Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/sysk-selects-how-bullfighting-works | Today matadors get paid $100,000 and perform in front of 50,000 fans. But is bullfighting an antiquated, abusive relic or a cultural tradition above reproach? | Today matadors get paid $100,000 and perform in front of 50,000 fans. But is bullfighting an antiquated, abusive relic or a cultural tradition above reproach? | Sat, 16 Jun 2018 11:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2018, tm_mon=6, tm_mday=16, tm_hour=11, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=167, tm_isdst=0) | 44288296 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, friends. You know, dating is a journey with ups and downs, for sure, but all the effort is worth it when you meet someone special, right? And when you decide it's time to find a meaningful relationship, eharmony is here for you. Eharmony. Is passionate about creating real love for all, rooted it in compatibility. Eharmony's process reveals truths about yourself, like, I don't know what you want in a relationship. And it helps you connect with a uniquely compatible partner who is right for you. Don't believe it? See for yourself. So start for free today, because every 14 minutes, someone finds love on Eharmony. This July, don't miss an entire summer of surprises on Disney Plus with Disney's High School Musical, the Musical, the Series season three Zombies, three Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness and the one wonderful summer of Mickey Mouse. Plus new episodes of Marvel Studios, ms. Marvel and National Geographics. America the Beautiful. From the award winning producers of Planet Earth, Frozen Planet and the Disney nature films, america the Beautiful takes viewers on a tour of the most spectacular and visually arresting regions of our great nation. All these and more streaming this month on Disney Plus. Hey, everybody, Chuck here. I'm a little sleepy because it's Saturday morning. You know what that means. It's time for another classic episode. Stuff you should know selects this one. It's from May 3, 2002. How Bullfighting works. And you know what? Honestly, I picked this one because I just wanted to go to people further. We usually try and keep things fairly neutral, but I came out hard against bullfighting on this because it is barbaric and awful, and I don't apologize for that. So I'm going to puff my chest up and republish this one right now. I don't care about the tradition. I don't care about any of that. I just want people to stop bull fighting so we get into the history of it and all that. And I think Josh was a little more neutral than I was, if I remember correctly. But, yeah, I'm not into it. So go ahead and send your hate emails now if you want, or emails of support. Here we go, how Bullfighting Works all over again. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me, as always. It's Charles w chuck Bryant. Oley. Chuck Olay, right back at you. How are you doing? I'm great. How are you? I'm doing pretty good. Yeah. I've been learning a lot about bull fighting lately. I don't know if you mean bull killing. Bull fighting is what it's called. It's not what I call it. Or you could also call it a corita. Oh, boy, here we go. Corita. You ever been to Spain? No, have you? Yeah. Where? I've been to Barcelona and then tosa De Mar, which is a little coastal town near Barcelona. They're on the coast of Bravo. Very nice. Have you been to and that's it. Okay. Yeah. Have you seen a bullfight? No, I would not do that, sir. I have seen a bull fight. And to offend you even further, not only was it a bull fight, it started off with a cock fight. It was in Cancun. I saw it with my sister and my dad. Well and it was crazy because we were there and it was a bull fight. It wasn't like you could have accidentally walked into this thing like it was a bull fight. Sure. And I would say 80% of the people there were white, probably American tourists. Of course they were. Who booed and yelled and shouted things the whole time. And I remember thinking of that one, Simpsons, where Lisa was having a nightmare about being second chairs for saxophone in the school band. And at the concert, everybody was booing. And she wakes up and thinks, like, why would everybody come just to boo? It was exactly like that. People came just to boo to bull fight. Well, that is one people who say bull fighting is not good at. Which I'm one of them say that's one of the only reasons bullfights are still even going on is because of tourists. I got you. They're the ones buying the tickets. And many times those tourists get there and they're horrified and they leave early and think, wow, no refunds made. No. Exactly. You just funded bullfighting. Yeah, exactly. Sucker. A couple of quick stats. Oh, yeah. Roughly between 200 and 250,000 bulls are killed each year. From both fights. From both fights. That's a lot. And I'm not sure if this is accurate, but the number I got was that 52 matadors have been killed since 1700. I'm surprised it's that few. Have you heard of Julio Pariccio? No. If you have a very strong constitution, uncle Josh warns you against this one. Is this guy through the face? Yeah. Holy cow. It was almost like how is it not Photoshopped? It was perfect. So Julio aparicio, he fell down and bull got the best of them. Gordon with its horns. With his horns. Because bull is a boy. Sure. And what a boy, huh? Yeah. And Gordon under his chin, through his neck. And then the horn came out of his mouth perfectly. And a guy from Getty Images got a close up of it, like 50 of them due to a video of it. It's amazing. I haven't seen the video. It's on the YouTube. And it's one of those that's so awful that you have to sign in and verify your age before you watch it. Got you. And I would do not advise people to watch this. I don't even advise you to look at the Daily Mail article that has it. But it's pretty crazy. But, yes, it happens. And I'm surprised. How many? 57. The stat I got was 52 in the last 300 plus years. So there's not much of a fight going on. And matador is actually Spanish for killer. Is it really? Yeah. Yes, they're killer bulls for sure. It's the whole point. There's really no gray area here. Bull fighting is the purpose of it is to kill the bull under certain conditions or within a certain framework. But that's the point of bull fighting. It's not anything but that. And if the matador fails to kill the bull, that's on him, and it is a huge disgrace. Yeah, that's a loss, and it's not very good. Right, but I'm starting to suspect that you are opposed to bullfighting. Yes. There are a lot of people, and apparently Spain I mean, in Spain, it's like a natural cultural thing. It's been around for a while, and even people who feel the same way you do still say, I still don't think it should be illegal. It's just too much a part of our tradition. Not everyone feels that way, though. No, definitely not. They did a Gallup poll in 2010, and 70% of Spaniards said that they were ready to do away with it. Oh, really? Yeah. That's a lot of Spaniards. And that's up from 31%, like, 15 years earlier. In this modern day, people are starting to think twice about it. Well, let's talk about this, Chuck. Let's talk about how long people have been fighting bulls on the Iberian peninsula. We don't know full show, but there is evidence of bull rituals dating back all the way to 1500 BC. Yeah, the Mycelians apparently used to leap over bulls that were charging. It was, like, a thing. And they were always revered as, like, these godlike creatures. Yeah. Which is why, I guess, they want to kill them. What's the taurus? One taurus. Is that an astrological sign? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, of course. Pretty ancient. The article points out that the visigoth rule of the Iberian peninsula from 1415 to 711 no, 415 to 711 had men on horseback fighting bulls, which evolved into mounted bull fighting, which rijonio which still exists in Portugal. Yes. Horseback bull fighting, where they kill the bull outside the ring later on. Right. They weaken it to a certain point, which is the equivalent of killing the bull. I guess there's some point of no return that the Portuguese understand, and they're like, okay, well, we're done. Come outside, and then that's that. But as anyone who's opposed to bullfighting will tell you, that's not any more humane. Of course not. It's just out of sight of the spectators. Right. So what is it? Rejuneo, Reneo, rejoined, and then bullfighting itself, as we understand it today, was firmly established in Spain by the 11th century. And it came about during festivals, specifically one festival called the Fiesta de San Fermin. And anybody who's been to Pompeona will recognize that because that's where the running of the bulls take place. And when? In July now. Oh, is it July 7, the 14th. When did it used to be? September. And then in the 16th century, they moved it to July, and ever since then, the running of the bowls has been helped, but it's been going on since long before that. And it actually started with a bunch of ranchers and their kids moving the bulls from their pins to about a half a mile to the arena. Right. And then people started running alongside them and evolved into the running of the bulls. Now, interesting, el CID, the Spanish military leader, mid 11th century, he was one of the first to actually bring it into the arena and make it the sanctioned corridor, which was government sanctioned, is today, at least if it was back then, imagine it was financially supported by governments, too. 15th century, it was a big part of the aristocracy until Queen Isabella came along and said, this is not cool. I don't know why she was against it. Probably because she was an animal lover. I would say that's probably a good idea. In Pope Pius Five. Almost a V. He banned it. But that didn't last very long, only about eight years, because people were into it pretty big time. Right. And then about the I guess in the 1600 is when that whole divergence between horseback and football fighting and took place, and it remained the support of the aristocracy until Philip came along and he said, you know what? This is barbaric. You would have to be a low class barbarian to engage in bullfighting. So if you're a member of my court and you get caught doing this, I'll shoot you in the knee. And the aristocracy said, well, we want our knees intact, so we're going to stop doing this. And at this point, bullfighting transferred from a kind of highfalutin Snooty pastime to the pastime of the people, the national sport of the Spanish people. That's true. And from that point on, it stayed that way. Yeah. But the author does point out that there are arenas in Spain that still have the royal boxes for the royal family to attend these things. So it hasn't gone away completely as far as that goes. So Spain is the heart and life center of bullfighting, but there are other places that it's held, obviously. I saw one in Cancun. Sure. And if you're a bullfighter, you can follow the season pretty much year round and get work if you're good. They have it in France. Did you know that? I didn't, but I saw that it was banned in the UK. Had no idea anybody was fighting bulls in the US. Going on in Germany. It was going on all over the place. It's crazy. But that doesn't make sense that it would happen in Germany if the Visigoths are the ones who introduced it to the Iberian Peninsula, because they were Germanic people from south of the south. Norway, we'll call southway. Look at you. I'll think the Goth. So we'll walk you through what happens in a Corida in this whitewashed article version, but before this ever happens, we'll walk you through the couple of days before the bull even gets to the ring. This is a special treat for me. It is. The bull is not an aggressive animal at all. Bull likes to hang around and chew grass and smell flowers. That sounds like Ferdinand bull fighting propaganda to me. No, Ferdinand the bull, it's like a sweet creature, but they actually are not aggressive. They're only going to charge somebody if they're threatened and angry, which is what bullfighting is all about. Sure. So in the two days prior to the bull showing up at the arena, they are abused. They are basically mentally destroyed versions of what a bull should be. There, you're fat bull. Well, they do fatten them up to make them slow. Well, that's a big problem, and you can call somebody out for that. Okay. They have wet newspaper stuffed in their ears so they can't hear anything. They have Vaseline rubbed on their eyes so their vision is blurred. They have their eyes taped open so they can't sleep. They stuff cotton up their nostrils so they can't breathe very well, and they stick a needle through their genitals that'll take anybody off. They rub this caustic solution on their legs, which makes the bull not be able to balance and keeps the bull from lying down ever. They strap their horns to the ceiling of their transport truck to take them on their long, hot journey to wherever they're going. And for the two days before, they keep them in a box. Wait, I'm sorry. That's not all. They give them drugs to either pep them up or slow them down just to keep them in whatever state they want them in and give them laxatives to just obviously make things even more uncomfortable. Got you. Then they put the ball in this dark box for two days to disorient the bowl. Finally, when they open the box, there's a light at the end of the tunnel that the bull thinks, my God, I'm finally getting out of here. Runs to the light, and all of a sudden they're in a bolt ring, right? And there's trumpets and fanfare and people cheering, and the bulls like, oh, cool. Hey, how are you all doing? Yeah, I've been through some rough times lately, some of that stuff. I think if you were found out, you would be disqualified immediately, especially doing stuff that slowed the bull down or made it less dangerous. Yes, the ring is a ring for a reason. Bulls would want to go try and hide in a corner, but the ring, the circular ring, will confuse in a bowl to where it can't hide anywhere. Have you ever seen that footage of that bull that makes it up into the stands, like, jumps up and is in the stands, like, on top of people? It's crazy. Was that bull run our test? No. Did you get that joke? Yeah. Okay, so the different accents, I believe, are called tercios? Yes, I believe so. And there's three of them, right? Yes, there's three of them. And that's three acts. In a fight? In a carriageo. Yes. In a bull fight. Yeah. There's no suspense going on either, by the way. They all go down the same way. I'll bet it's suspenseful for the bull. So the bull comes out the first act, or what? Yeah, act one. Okay. In act one, there are guys called Picadors, and they're mounted on horseback. And they are basically, I guess, low level Torreros, or bullfighters. Yes. Because matador is not the only kind of bull fighter. He is the cream of the crop, pinnacle of bullfighters. The well paid rock star. Yes. But he works with a crew of picadors who show up in the first act and banalos who show up in the second act. But the Picadors, what they do is they lance the bowl between his shoulder blades around his neck muscles. And the whole point of this chuck you'll love this one. Is to weaken the neck muscles so that the bull's head hangs so that the matador can get to its heart more easily. Yeah. It also hits a gland in the neck that releases adrenaline, apparently. Crazy. So they lanced the bowl three times and twist the blade around to ensure maximum blood loss. Three matadors will now come in. They will fight individually later on, but they all come in at first in the first act with their capes. And this is for the bull fight. It's an afternoon of them. There's six bowls and three matadors. And each matador fights two bowls. And each bullfight takes about 15 to 20 minutes. Yes. Roughly. So they come in with their little capes and do their little maneuvers to draw attention away from the peca doors. And the peca doors go and hide behind their little walls. They have these interior walls that they can hide behind whenever the bull starts to get too dangerous. They run and hide behind these walls. Yes. Or if this are America, the peca doors would be dressed as clowns and would hide in barrels. Like a rodeo. Yeah. It will do a rodeo podcast at some point. Do we have to? Sure. Okay. I don't think they kill the cows and rodeos. No. Okay. So the pecadors leave the ring, the matadors leave the ring. Act two begins. And the bandel yellows. I know. That's a tough one. Yeah. They come in they're basically both fighters, assistant bullfighters. But they're on foot. Yes. And if you've ever seen a bullfighter or a picture of a bullfight, bowls seem to have some crepe barbs sticking out of them. That's the bandelieros work. Yes. And that is called a bandorias. And it's a barbed dart that's adorned colorfully bulls aren't the only things dying in this episode. So is the Spanish language, because we are butchering. It I'm trying this, of course, further weakens the bull. So the mighty matador doesn't have much work to do, so the bull is still dangerous. They run it in circles at this point, too, to get it nice and dizzy and confused. Right. The matador comes out for the final act, and he has ten official minutes to kill the ball. Well, to do a little showing off first and then kill the bowl after the ten minute warning. After the ten minutes, he gets in a visa, which is a first warning. After three minutes, he gets another one, and then he gets a third one. So he has a total of, in actuality, 15 minutes to kill the bull, or else the bull is let out alive and the matador is disgraced. Okay. But for the most part, the matador is going to dispatch the bull, and he does it. He first starts using the cape. And the cape is always held in the left hand. Is it? I saw right handed, dudes. I did not. I was looking, and I could even tell that the cape was kind of clumsy held in the left hand. They were still holding it in the left hand. Well, the guys I saw were practicing, so maybe I don't know, but I don't see why they would practice with the right hand. Yeah, I don't either. Okay, but you have a cape in one hand, you have a sword in the other. Yes. And the point of the cape, by the way, we should probably get to this now. Sure. Cape is always red because red angers bulls. Right? Not true. No. Bulls are color blind, so they're not angered by red or any other color. What does get them going is the movement of the cape and sticking swords in their neck. That's another thing that gets them going. Yeah. And actually, that's not necessarily true. By the time the matador comes out, sometimes the bull is really tired from blood loss and being tortured for a couple of days, apparently. Yeah, of course. And so the mandatory really kind of has to work to get it riled up again, even though the bulls just like, just kill me. Metador is like, not yet. We have a crowd to please first. So the metadore eventually, after the cape work is done or the cape is read, by the way, the high blood stains. Yeah. Once the cape work is done, the matador will, as the bull runs past him, will plunge the sword in between his shoulder blades and what's called an estocada, which is the death blow, and it properly delivered. Estacata will sever the bulls aorta, and that will be that almost immediately for the bowl. If it's not done correctly, then the bowl can be an even more tremendous pain as it bleeds out. But to protect against this, a bandeliero will come out and immediately deliver another thrust of a blade to make sure the ball is dead with a Puntilla, with a smaller knife. Ideally they kill them with one blow. That rarely happens because apparently matadors aren't so great at doing that anymore. I don't know if they ever were. And a lot of times the bull lives even through the smaller knife plunge and is still alive when the ears and tail or hoof are cut off and presented to the matador. Usually there's another fail safe where they just bring out a tractor and run the bowl over a bunch of times to make sure that it's that's so nice. If that doesn't work, then the people come down from the stands and just start shooting it. That's not true and it's not funny. It's not funny because it's not true. And they oftentimes do survive hanging on by a thread. Their lungs are punctured, so they're like drowning in their own blood and vomiting up blood through their nose and mouth like a whale dying and flurry. And sometimes they will take it outside and skin it while it's even still alive. Yeah, that's kind of a tradition. I saw the bowl after the bull fight. It was pretty sad. They take the bowl right outside and they'll dress it and then sell the meat at the stadium, which is customary and very strange. But that's one of the aspects of bullfighting. If you've ever wanted a bowl burger and you wanted to eat it right after you saw it die, go to a bullfight in Spain. They will drag the bull out with some mules attached to chains. And I don't know if the booing you heard because apparently the people will boo and throw beer cans at the bowl at the end. I don't know if that's what you were. It depends. So it depends. No, they were booing the matador, the Banros, the doors, everybody. They were booing the whole country of Mexico for this. They're booing everybody. It depends on the bull. If the bull was a wuss, then I could see the fans throwing beer cans at it. There's also an aspect of this that cannot be denying that a bull that shows great bravery, anger, spirit, spunk, really tries to kill the matador or the band Elias will be very much revered by the people in the stands and gruesomely. They'll bring it out for a victory lap being dragged by the mules in a circle around the arena. After it's dead, or apparently while it's still dying, people will cheer it, throw roses for it. And there's a rule where the crowd or the matador can ask for an indolito which is a reprieve for a particularly courageous bull. And the president of the bull fight, the referee can say, yes, I give this bull or a brief because it's such an awesome bowl, we're going to let it live. And then the matador proceeds to, with an empty hand simulate the death blow thing. I could have killed the bull, but I like the bull so much, I lobbied to get it released. What a guy. That bull is taken away and put out the stud for the rest of its life. And there was one it's very rare to get an indolito. And there was one bowl called Manzanito in 1887. He got an inalito because he gored all three matadors in the plaza that day. Wow. That will get you off right there. You get to go study for the rest of your life, Mr. Bull. Horses are also abused. The ones that participate, their ears are stuffed with newspaper, wet newspaper. They're blindfolded, and they sever their vocal cords so they can't scream out in pain, because people don't want to hear that. They don't want to hear screaming. Yeah, people don't like that. So they several vocal cords. So the horses that are trembling in fear inside this ring at this bull, don't bark out and let people know that. And if the horses are hurt, they take them out of the ring and patch them up and send them right back in there. Where are you getting this activist info? All over the place. Yeah, okay. I mean, it's not activist info. It's how it goes down. Now. It all just kind of has a certain ring to it. I'm not disputing it. I'm just saying, like yeah, well, I mean, coming out of my mouth, it probably sounds activist because I think it's an awful thing to do something like this. Got you. But these are the facts. What if you were a global bank who wanted to supercharge your audit system so you tap IBM to UNSILO your data and with the help of AI, start crunching a year's worth of transactions against thousands of compliance controls? Now you're making smarter decisions, faster operating costs are lower, and everyone from your auditors to your bankers feels like a million bucks. Let's create smarter ways of putting your data to work. IBM let's create. Learn more@ibm.com. Are you looking for an escape or a relaxing getaway or a reprieve from the hustle and bustle of it all? Well, we know just the place. Maybe you want to solve a murder in your building where you're just all about that paper boy. Perhaps you want to watch Hollywood's biggest monitor. Or you crave the thrill of a classic American story about horror. Or is your stomach grumbling for a milk steak flamers chip? Would you love to quench your thirst with a delicious Tranquillum house smoothie? Did you see blood analysis as an investment opportunity? Would you wear one of Dave's wooden shirts? Do you smash glasses whilst yelling who's? Well, then there's a place that has everything you love, from Atlanta to the Kardashians to only burners in the building and everything in between. Hulu is your entertainment. Getaway Hulu check into your obsessions. Hulu subscription required. Terms apply. Visit Hulu.com for plan details okay, well in check. You will love the next part where we talk about famous matador's. Yeah, feel free. So people have been doing this since we said, like, the 11th century. Right. El CID was supposedly the first guy to fight a ball in an arena. Yeah. And since then it's just become huge, big business. But the first real, and probably only real golden age, if you call it that, bullfighting happened from 1914 to 1920. And there were two matadors. One, Belmont Egarcia and Jose Gomez, who fought both under the name Jose Lito had a rivalry and Belmont E Garcia was actually the first guy, apparently to stand still or stand his ground when he was doing cape work with a bowl rather than try to run away from the bull using fancy footwork, that erect style. Right. Yeah. Jose Lito was his rival. And the rivalry was really going swimmingly, I guess, for everybody but the bulls until Josette was fatally gored at a match that both of them were at. Garcia and Jose Ledo were fighting at in 1920 and the end of the golden age of bull fighting, you'll be happy to hear. He must have been small. Joselito? Yes. His name is Jose. And I think if you're Jose and they call you Jose, that means you're small. Like, add that ito to anything. Or Lito or young, because he started very young. Yeah, maybe that's true. He started at age 13 and he was only, I think, 25. 25 when he died, when he was gord. So another guy who is Gordon? His name manuel Rodriguez. E Sanchez. Do you think that's like the mother's and the father's names when it's two last names and there's an E and and in the middle? I don't know. I would think so. Manuel Rodriguez and Sanchez. You put the Rodriguez together and the Sanchez is together and you get Manuel, also known as Manalete. Maybe so. And he was Gordon in 1947. He was the top mandor from 1940 to 1947. And I think his goring and the end of it being the top matador was not coincidental. You're probably right. Should we talk about the bulls? Because it's very specific what kind of bulls are fighting? Yeah, they're all four years old, which I didn't know. I didn't either. And they are specifically bred to bull fight and they weigh about \u00a31300. Do you want to translate that into Kilos? For our friends? It's 590 kg. That's right. And they are bred and ranches in this article says that they are tested for bravery and ferocity and that if you pass that test, you become a fighting bull. And that may be true sometimes, but matadors like to make their money and they don't want to be gourd. So the highfalutin matadors will request very placid docile bulls just to keep the show going. Is that true? That's what I read. Okay. They just want to put on the show. They don't want to die. Well, I'm sure they don't want to die. They want. To make a few million bucks a year doing it easy, too, because they get paid about 100 grand a bull fight, and they can do maybe 30 to 40 or more. I know the guy. Belmonte. He had a record 109 bull fights in 1919. It's a lot. It's like in Rocky Three when he was fighting all the chumps just for a payday. He didn't want a real challenge, but ultimately, he did want a real challenge because he fought Draco. Well, he fought club or lang three. It was The Russian. Oh, no. Yeah. Three was Clubber Lange. No. Yeah. The first two were Apollo. The third was Clubber Lang. The fourth was the Russian. I thought that was the third, Tommy Morrison. And then the 6th was when he came back as a trainer, and the 7th was him enjoying a nice sandwich for 2 hours. No, rocky Three is definitely Clover Lane because that was my favorite one. Okay. Until I got older and I realized that the first one was actually the better one. You know, I thought that I would think that, too. And then I went back and watched it as an adult, and I'm like, I mean, it's pretty good, but I loved it. There's just too much character development in it for a Rocky movie, if you ask. Well, it's a love story. It wasn't even a boxing movie, I understand, but it was a love story starring and written and directed by Sylvester Stallone. That's right. All right, back to the bulls. Bulls are never exposed to more than one fight. Yeah. So apparently they have very good memories. Sure. So they'd learn how to outdoor the matador in their cape. Yeah. So that's why they don't bite them twice. And the guys who test their ferocity for, I guess the ones that are tested, those are done on horseback so that the bull is not like, oh, I remember this capes. I'm going to get you. I associate you with laxatives. Well, even this article says that they alter bowls to make them easier to fight. But this is what I'm saying. It's a very participatory sport for spectators. So you can ask for an indolito. You can also challenge or charge somebody with fighting an altered bowl, one that's overfed and too fat and slow. One whose horns have been altered, because apparently the tips of the horns of a bull are very much like a cat's whiskers. And if you remove that, the ball is not going to have a very good sense of kinetics and whatever hit the matador. So if the crowd thinks that your career is, like, over pal, that's why I don't think it's quite as widespread, either that or else bullfighting crowds have become complacent. Well, I think that's definitely true. Yeah. Well, because it's 80% tourists, they don't know how to spot a fat bull. Well, then that very well may be the case. And they also apparently, the way they stabbed them and where they stabbed them, they do so in order to make sure they charge straight, instead of like, I've got a bad left leg all of a sudden, so I'm going to be going left all day or right all day. Yeah. So, Chuck, we mentioned that you can make a pretty decent living doing both fights, but you also mentioned that there may be the death of bullfighting, as it were. Do you think that's really true? I mean, seriously, people have been doing this since the fourth century, and now all of a sudden, just because of a bad economy and animal activism, both fighting is going down? It's starting to what's the evidence? Well, the polls that the popular sentiment is changing in Spain over the past 15 years is one, Catalonia is the first region in mainland Spain to actually ban it in Barcelona is in Catalonia. Yes. Which is big because Barcelona had not one, not two, but three bullfighting arenas. That's right. And that took effect, or Plaza del Toro. That took effect actually just this year, on January 1, they said, like, let's finish out the 2011 season and then we'll ban it starting from that point. They had the last one in September. I think September 28, 2011 was the last one ever. Was it? That's a huge deal. Yeah. But even in Spain, they're kind of like the Snooty Catalans. They don't enjoy bullfighting. I think that's made some quarters of Spain even more fiercely proud of it. Yeah, probably. So, like, Madrid apparently is still very proud of their bull fighting. Right. In 2010, one of the state television station said, we are going to ban coverage, live coverage of it, because kids can watch this on TV. They happened in the hours and the afternoon hours and early evening. So they won't broadcast until after 10:00 P.m. Now. Right. Well, there's a law that says you can't show animal cruelty on Spanish television until after 10:00 P.m. Because of children. And so that's effectively banned showing bull fighting in Spain, which is a huge blow to it, I guess, economically or financially. Because think about how much money comes from television deals and sponsorships. If you can get rid of it on TV, that's that. Yeah, that's true. And then they've shown that there's evidence that the federal government in Spain is pretty much what's propping up bullfighting these days. Right. Because there were what? It went from 1000 bull fights in 2008 to 800 in 2010 in Spain. And that 200 was almost exclusively the result of cuts in government subsidies to small towns that can't afford to put on a bullfight. Right. And so that means that the government is holding the whole thing up. Yeah. I read a couple of interesting articles today. One of them was from a veterinarian, and they have vets at the bullfight on staff, I guess. And this vet went on record as saying they did all this testing of like, adrenaline and noradrenaline and all these different chemicals in the body on these bulls that had just survived, ones that were dead ones before they went in. And basically to prove that the bull suffers a great deal because there's this misguided notion that the bull doesn't suffer because they're this magical creature. I saw this one interview with a bandolero and he said that a veterinarian this is translated, obviously, but he said, a veterinarian told me that the bulls have a special cell in their body that prevents it from suffering and feeling pain. It's not true. Are you sure? Yeah. There's no special sell that keeps him from feeling pain? Well, that's a larger debate too, I believe both can suffer. But if you've read David Foster Wallace is considered the lobster. Can a lobster suffer? No. Section is the perception of physical feeling of pain, is that the same thing as suffering? No, we've shown it's not. Remember in our Happiness audio book, we talked about the difference between experiencing physical pain and experiencing suffering and they actually utilize different parts of the brain. So if there's no suffering, is inflicting pain on something, eg cooking it? Is that cruel? Yeah, that's a good point. It is. But I think bulls experience suffering, especially if they go through what you describe. Yeah. And if you're against bullfighting and you want to do something, you can email or mail the embassies of these countries that still participate and tell them that, hey, I'm not going to visit your country, I'm not going to spend my money there. If you're still going to endorse this, it's a small thing you can do. Can you mail me some wine? Because I can't make it over. There some temper INEO I'm going to go on record as saying this whole thing that it's part of the culture is just crap. Well, the Spanish federal government would disagree with you because in 2010, and what a lot of people see as a response to the Catalonia ban, the Spanish government transferred jurisdiction over bull fighting from the Interior ministry to the cultural ministry as an attempt to keep it from being banned. It will be a tough fault one, but yeah, apparently even Mexico now is entertaining the idea of banning it. You know, some other things that were defended as culture genital mutilation on females, witchburning bear baiting. You ever heard of that? No. Bear baiting was popular in England up until the 18th century. That is, when you take a bear like a grizzly bear or brown bear up like a clown, well, not far off. You put it in a pit and chain it to a stake and release dogs on it and the dogs kill the bear or the bear kills some of the dogs. So they release more dogs and people sit around and gamble on is the bear going to get eaten first or the dog's going to get killed first? And it's blood sport. And I think this is the same thing. That's where bulldogs came from, and that's where they got their name from. It's called bull baiting. Oh, really? And bulldogs used to not even come close to resembling what they do now. They were actually bred to be less vicious by making them slower and dumber and more cuddly or not dumber, but more cuddly. And that's how we have the modern bulldogs now. But they evolved from basically in the 19th century bulldogs, where Pipple breed is now, where there are a lot of people being like, we just need to wipe this breed off the face of the planet. It's gone out of control. They're crazy. Everybody's scared of them. They're killing people. And then they managed to breed the meanness out of them. But bull baiting, too. Bull baiting both just have been taking it all over the place. Well, bear baiting actually still happens in Pakistan, and it's horrific. So from me to you people of Spain, Mexico, France, ritualized killing of animals for people to pay for and watch is a little outdated and just silly and cruel, and I say, please stop. From chuck to you, from me to you. And one more thing the whole notion of culture. Isn't that supposedly to advance your civilization? And isn't that supposed to mean, like, positive things like culture? What brings people together more than the ritual house and watching bullfight? All right, I'm done. What if you were a trendy apparel company facing an avalanche of demand to ensure more customers can buy more sherpa like jackets? You call IBM to automate your it? Infrastructure with AI. Now, your systems monitor themselves. What used to take hours takes minutes, and you have an ecommerce platform designed to handle sudden spikes in overall demand, as in actual overalls. Let's create It. Systems that rule up their own sleeves. IBM let's create. Learn more@ibm.com it automation. Are you looking for an escape or a relaxing getaway or a reprieve from the hustle and bustle of it all? Well, we know just the place. Maybe you want to solve a murder in your building. Or you're just all about that paper boy. Perhaps you want to watch Hollywood's biggest monitor. Or you crave the thrill of a classic American story about horror. Or is your stomach grumbling for a MILKSTAKE flaming flamers chip? Would you love to quench your thirst with a delicious Tranquillum house smoothie? Did you see blood analysis? As an investment opportunity, would you wear one of Dave's wooden shirts? Do you smash glasses whilst yelling hoosa? Well, then there's a place that has everything you love, from Atlanta to the kardashians to only murders in the building and everything in between. Hulu is your entertainment. Getaway hulu. Check into your obsessions. Hulu subscription required terms apply visit hulu.com for plan details soapbox how do you feel about bullfighting? First. I think it's great. If you want to learn more about bullfighting or Chuck's views on it. You can type in Chuck or bullfighting in the search bar@housetofworks.com. And I said search bar, which means it's time for listener mail. Very riled up. Listener mail. That's right. Now, this is calm. I'm going to call this illustrator wrote us about the comics episode. Guys. I'm currently an illustrator. Does he not have much hope for his future in that field? No, I think he does okay, I thought, because he does like digital illustration. Team, I got you. I found your podcast when I was hip deep in art school at the Art Institute of Boston. But there are only so many times I could listen to the same old Hour Lady Peace songs on repeat. Remember that group? No. It had, like, one song. Okay, which song was it? I can't remember. I dug at the song. Actually. I got the CD because of that song. Man, I used to fall for that when I was like, 1214. You'd just be like, that's the only good song on the whole CD for the kissingle. Yeah. I'm now a professional illustrator, but I also teach art at AIB and was able to live a mini dream when my higher ups approached me about teaching a comic book class. Sweet. So he was pretty stoked about this. And this is just some things he pointed out on the Comics Code of authority you guys talked about. World War II was long over, and the new round of superheroes Spiderman Fantastic Four had yet to emerge from the minds of Lee, Kirby and Ditko. As a result, comics were merely treading water and chasing from fad to fad, westerns to romance to eventually, horror. Horror comics are what really started to worry everyone, so they began to put pressure on companies like EC, who had made their names and over the top horror. In turn, EC basically jettisoned at stake in horror comics and latched onto a little humor comic, Mad, which we talked about. It was like stories guaranteed to drive you mad. I think it was the original first, but to this point, Mad was published basically as a comic book. In essence, EC was looking to hedge its bets, so it relaunched Mad as a magazine, which is a very different distinction because it all of a sudden wasn't under the code of authority. In 1955, we were blessed with the very first Mad magazine, a very calculated move since they were not heavily scrutinized like comics and they didn't have to worry about the Comics code. That is very smart. It is. I hope to make it big as a comics illustrator and children's book illustrator. Who says I can't do both? I also thought you might like to know that you're keeping me company during these long hours chasing the dream. And this dude's stuff is awesome. And if you want to hire Greg Morathas, you can get in touch with him at the Gregmarathastudio, which is Gregmarathas.com or read his blog. Gregmaranthus blogspot.com. Nice. This stuff is very cool. I told them I'd keep them in mind. If we ever needed drawings, we could do some drawings. We need some Facebook Timeline drawings. Yeah, if he's holding to work for free. Yes. Get to it. Remember, we got chastised by a graphic designer for holding that T shirt contest? Yeah, I emailed him back, actually. Did you call them down? Yeah. I was like most of these were amateur designers. There were some pros in there, but there was some prone. It's not like we forced anybody to do it. But there's a whole movement from designers about design contests being awful. Like, what other industry basically asks for free work as a contest, quote, unquote? There's like, fiction contests. Yeah, there's all kinds of contests. Box derbys. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff that people do for free as part of a contest. Bake off or bakes off. I'm sorry. And I saw some designers that say, I don't agree with that. Contest making me better. And if you don't architecture. That's a ridiculous idea. Architecture as a field has been in contest mode for a century or more. And like, yeah, there's a lot of work put into it. And there's a lot of work put into graphic design contests are everywhere. I think that's a ridiculous thing. Well, his point was because he emailed me back and he was like, well, fine, the contest is fine, but you should give them a cut of the T shirt sales. I don't disagree with that. I know, but we had no choice. Well, no, we're in no position whatsoever to share. But I told them, dude, if it was up to me, they would get 100% of the T shirt sales. I don't know about that, but we don't get any. Well, I know, but still, we could if we could negotiate on their behalf, we would work a little bit in for us, too. Man, what a volatile episode. Right until the end. Yeah. So I guess if you want to express your volatility toward us, that's cool. We can handle it. We've been taking it for years. You can Tweet to us at SYSK podcast. You can send us stuff on Facebook, including Facebook art for the Timeline@facebook.com stuffyshow. You can also email us at stuffpodcast@discovery.com. Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. 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How Rabies Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-rabies-works | Rabies may have gotten a lot of attention in the U.S. in the 70s and 80s, but it's still an issue in developing countries. Learn all about this nasty virus in today's episode. And stay away from racoons and bats. | Rabies may have gotten a lot of attention in the U.S. in the 70s and 80s, but it's still an issue in developing countries. Learn all about this nasty virus in today's episode. And stay away from racoons and bats. | Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:14:19 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2016, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=9, tm_hour=16, tm_min=14, tm_sec=19, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=40, tm_isdst=0) | 39425739 | audio/mpeg | "This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Start building your website today@squarespace.com. Enter code stuff at checkout and get 10% off Squarespace. Build it beautiful. Welcome to stuff you should knowcom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W. Chuck Bryant with Jerry and stuff. You should know. You're bumming at the mouth, Jerry. Don't let them bite you. All right. He bit Jerry. I'm going to have to put both of you down like Old Yeller. Let's do it. About time. I knew from day one when we started working together that this is how it would include yeah. Me shooting both of you because of rabies putting us down Old Yeller. Wait. Speaking of Old Yeller, I'm sorry. Have you seen the kids in the hall take on Old Yeller? No, I don't think so. Yeah. Paul makes the kid shoot the dog and his face is sprayed with blood from the gunshot wood. Yes. Worst children's book ever. I guess we just spoiled it, huh? Everyone knows Old Yeller gets rabies and is shot. Yes. I don't even bother emailing him. But there is a happy ending. Old Dealer has pups and they get a pup. So instead of, like, coming back as a ghost dog, that helps things turn out well for the family. It left a legacy in the Darkensian view. Right. Still the worst children's book ever. Although it teaches valuable life lessons about death. Why you got to do that by killing Old Yeller? I don't know, but, I mean, it works all right. Rabies. I don't know. I thought we'd done this one. It seems like an obvious one for us. Yeah, it's definitely in our wheelhouse, for sure. I did not know this either. It's a virus on every continent in the world except Antarctica. I think there's a lot of viruses that hold that title that aren't on Antarctica. Sure, yeah. Inhospitable place. Yeah. And if a virus is on every continent, chances are it's a very old one, too. And rabies definitely is extremely old. People have been writing about rabies for a very long time. The Mesopotamians who know it's old, if you say that word sure. They used to have a law where if your dog was rabid, you faced a stiff penalty, a fine of sorts. We have those laws today. Sure. In the United States. I mean, a lot of our laws stem from Mesopotamia. In the code of Hammur, robbie. Sure. If you watch somebody's house burn down and don't do anything, that person can kill you still today. Just like from the code of hammerab. So if your neighbor's house is on fire, you have to put it out. You have to help put it out. Mesopotamia. So the word rabies in many languages means rage or go crazy. In Latin, it is from a Sanskrit term, Robhas, to do violence. And then French, la raj loraj. It's the sexiest form of rabies. It comes from the French noun Robette, meaning to go mad. So if you're not picking up on it, it's not a friendly virus. No, it's not the one that you get a dog. Well, actually, we'll talk about that. I'm going to save it. And for a long time, there was nothing we could do about rabies. Yeah. People went to Lisbelgium to pray to St. Hubert. Yeah, it's a round name, isn't it? Yeah, st. Hubert was the patron saint of huntsman. Okay. Not quality footwear. No, apparently. No, that was St Clark. Apparently. St. Hubbins. Actually, I've not heard of that. It's a spinal tap joke. You never get my spinal tap joke. No, I need to see it more than once. Apparently, they're for the people out there. That's fine. There's, like, 100 dudes. I'll sit here and be the straight man. I don't know what I'm talking about. Yes, Derek St. Hubbins was the patron saint of his ancestors. Patron saint of quality folk are great joke. That is a good joke, man. I'm sorry. I stepped all over it. That's right. So in lee, you would go and pray to St. Hubert for protection. Probably not the most effective way to treat rabies. No, I don't blame people for making a pilgrimage to leash. From what I understand about rabies, based on researching this, it's terrible. It's horrific and fatal. And it wasn't until the late 19th century, 1885, when the late, great Louis Pasteur man, this dude. What didn't that guy do to save the world? Yeah, he's up in our line, and now we have a kind of an ongoing line of, like, great scientists, so we will include him on the list. And we need to start acknowledging the ladies, too, so madam Curie sure. We've got our eye on you, miss. That's right. Anyway, so Louis Pasteur came up with a vaccine for rabies, and he was one of the early germ theory guys. He was very prescient person. Oh, yeah. His inoculation trials were based on the idea that if you introduced some, like, a low level of rabies to a living being, that living being would produce antibodies and you could introduce increasingly larger amounts over time, and eventually the person's antibodies would be robust enough so that if they ever faced rabies in the wild, they would be able to fight it off. And he was absolutely right. What a crazy thing to think, though it is when no one knows anything about germ theory, to think, like, why don't we put the disease in the person? Sure. Maybe that will help cure it. Yes. And I think that was around for a while, but I think it was like some arcane knowledge that not everyone knew about. And pasture really capitalized. Pretty amazing. But he actually had been working on something using rabbits, test cases, and basically he proved it can work in humans by a boy who had been attacked by a dog, I think, and contracted rabies. And Louis pasture said, Here goes nothing, and stuck in with the shot. And the parents went, Here goes nothing. Right. He goes, no, nothing. And they said, well, you said this is going to work. I said no such thing. It's good. Louis Pastor. Thank you. It's technically that no. The Chuck Jones version of Napoleon. Right. Everyone bugs Bunnies to hang out with them. Yeah. That's how I learned to do a French accent. The great Chuck Jones. Sure. So, raby. Let's talk a little bit about what it does in your body. It's really pretty vicious. It is a viral disease, like we said at the top, and it attacks the central nervous system. The brain and the central nervous system. It is part of the Rabdo verde. Nice. Yeah. Family under the genus. You take the genus the lysovirus. That was too easy. It was easy. It is shaped like a bullet, and when it comes in the body, it basically goes as fast as it can. Like a bullet to the spinal cord. Yeah. Through something called afferent nerves with an A, they carry impulses toward the central nervous system, as opposed to April with an E, they carry impulses away, but it uses both. So this virus travels along the neural pathways through the central nervous system, and it goes immediately to the central nervous or the spinal cord, and then up to the brain. And in the brain, that's where it replicates. Vicious. You remember, like HIV replicates inside T helper cells. Yes. Well, rabies is a virus that replicates inside your neurons, your brain cells, which is not a good place for a virus to start doing its replicating. Right? That's right. And right after it starts replicating in the brain, it makes a second stop, a very important step to your salivary glands. And the reason it does that is because that is the number one mechanism of transmission for rabies. Yeah. That's when you see the foaming at the mouth, it's not just a symptom of Radies, but that's the main way that you're going to get it is by being bitten by something with all kinds of nasty rabid saliva. Right. And apparently, because this stuff is wrecking your brain by hijacking your brain cells and destroying them. There's two different versions of rabies, right? Yeah. encephalitic, which is also known as the furious form of rabies. That's the one you think of when you think of a crazy rabid dog that's hallucinating and running around in circles and chasing its tail and biting at the air. Old Yeller, basically. Although they toned it down a bit. They did. Because they didn't want to scare the kids before they and then there's a paralytic or dumb form, and that one is more like lapsing into a coma, basically. Right. Surely there's no way to predict which way the things the virus is going to go in a human. Right. Because it's destroying brain cells. I would think it would just be totally accidental. Whether it went toward the encephalitic or the paralytic form, that's a good question. It would just depend on where it lodges first. Right? Yeah. But both of the forms are in the acute stage. And here's what's so scary. Once it's in the acute stage, once it's hit your central nervous system, you're done, almost exclusively done. And we'll talk about that for millennia. The idea behind rabies, it's a fatal disease. 100% fatal. Yeah. Except now they've started to find a few cases here and there. That's not the case. And they're starting to wonder, okay, is this something we could treat after people are traditionally goners? Well, that's a great season. So let's take a break and we'll come back right after this with more on rapey's. Okay, so we mentioned the two forms. They're both in the acute stage, and apparently both stages can happen in a single case. It's not necessarily one or the other. Right. It makes sense. Yeah. Like if this region of your brain is wrecked and you're furious and raging, well, eventually it's going to get to the part of your brain where you can't move or breathe and you slip into a coma and die of respiratory distress. Right. But I also got the impression it wasn't necessarily like that's the path, it could start in the dumb stage as well. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It would just depend on where the virus, what part of your brain the virus goes to. It's got to yeah. Something I didn't realize about rabies, Chuck, was that it's exclusive to mammals. I knew that it didn't. But I also have wondered over the years, why isn't, like, a rabid squirrel would be your worst nightmare, I imagine. Yeah. Because they'll already come at you. Yeah. A rabid one would definitely come at you. One of the traits or symptoms of a rabid mammal is that a wild one has no fear of humans. Yeah. They're aggressive. Right. In fact, there's a case I looked up, as I often do just in the news, and a little boy in New Jersey just this week was attacked by a raccoon. This raccoon leapt onto his back while he was walking down the street during the day. And we will get to the Hallmarks, but that's very important. If you see a nocturnal animal cruising around during the day at great speeds, stay away. Oh, yeah. You're not supposed to see raccoons in the neighborhood during the day. Yeah, just go get your paws. BB gun. Well, I don't know about that, but call animal control and they'll get their BB gun. Sure. But yeah, this little boy raccoon jumped on his back and started biting his face and neck. Where did you learn to pronounce random words? Raccoon. Raccoon. No, I say raccoon. That's just one of my jokes. Okay. People don't know, though. When I said Alex Baldwin, I know people literally wrote in, what is wrong with you, Chuck? Like it's. Alec, how did you miss 30 Rock? And Alec Baldwin said, I don't care. Yes. I don't know who this Chuck is. So anyway, Clint Eastwood. Yeah, you're right. The little boy, I think, is going to be okay, which is the good news. Good. Well, we'll get to the rarity of it. Plus, he was attacked in New Jersey, which is in the US. Which means he's going to be just fine. Right. But a long way of saying that squirrels and mice and other smaller animals typically don't get it. And it makes good sense just because if they are attacked by a rabid animal, they're small and probably won't survive. They could very well get rabies. Every sign says they can, but they'll probably poor little mouse will probably just die. Right. Because if a raccoon gets his hands on a mouse, it's all over and it bites it. That saliva is going to be transmitted to the wound. But you also need the host to be alive for the virus to replicate in that host. Exactly. If their neck is broken and they're dead, then it's not going to work. But yeah, absolutely. Wood chuck, you said? Yes. You can get a woodchuck with rabies. Woodchucks raccoons. Apparently in the United States, raccoons are the most common vector for the disease now. Yes. But for the most part, it's slightly larger, small mammals. Does that make sense? Yes. Woodchucks raccoons, medium sized mammals. Medium sized on the smallest side, small to medium. A medium sized mammal. That means, like, I guess, the rick. Okay. And it takes a few months for the disease to run its course in an animal. But the scary thing is it can lie dormant in humans for years. Months or years. That's very scary. It's super scary, yeah, because you guys don't realize it's like you think it's like frothing at the mouth or something. No, the rabies virus is one of the scariest viruses on the planet. It is. So, like I said, saliva is the mode of transmission for most rabies cases, and you can catch it very easily. Technically, if you had, like, an open wound and you rubbed your finger where the open wound was I guess I should have specified that earlier. True. On the saliva of a rabid. Raccoon, you could easily catch rabies. Right. But that's an uncommon thing to do. You could also, if you took the brain of that raccoon and rubbed it on your open wound, on your finger, you could also catch it even more uncommon. But if you came across a raccoons poop that was rabid and took it and just rubbed it all over your hands to camouflage the scent of your hands, probably the most uncommon, you would not catch rabies. That's the good news. Yeah. It doesn't transfer in the feces or the blood or the pea. Yes. The urine, the pee pee. Oh, man. It's been p fest at my house. You want a little quick side story? Sure. I changed the litter box before I went to Birmingham, and four days later, we realized that I didn't put litter in the litter box. I emptied it, put the lid back on, put it back in, rushed out of the door to drive to Birmingham. Right. And four days later, we were like, our cats are sick because they're peeing on everything in the house. Emily went over and she went, hey. Well, I won't say what she said. It wasn't, hey, honey. Yeah. Guess what? There's a lake of urine in the litter box and it's all your fault. Oh, man. So we had to throw a lot of things away in our home that previously were working just fine, man. And I got the Dummy of the Year award in our house. That's cool. You should Instagram that trophy dummy of the Year. Yeah. It's a tattoo now on my lower back of Alfredi Newman. So anyway, we've been in urine land. That is so gross. It is so gross. And cat pee is not tough to mass, so we're really in the lakes of it, man. What a dummy. Anyway, the moral of the story is litter is a very important part of the litter box. Yeah. And luckily, if your cats are rabid, you wouldn't have caught anything from that. No, but I'm sure I have. What's it called? What's? The cat disease from Changing letter. Oh, tax of plasmos is Gandhi. I'm sure I've had that for years. Sure. It's why you do most of the things you do. That's right. So it is a very adaptive disease. And here's another scary thing, although it's not that scary because it's super rare. But in laboratories, it has been transmitted through the air aerosol transmission. And they have found one case where it actually happened in the wild, but it was a cave that had tens of millions of infected bats, like sneezing and coughing up their junk everywhere. And in that case, someone got rabies, supposedly to include the air. Three people. Three people walked into the cave in Texas. But that's, again, not something you need to worry about. Yeah, but humans can spread it too. And remember, you can spread it through saliva, which means that if you are kissing, especially kissing with tongue, fridge style, a rabid person. And remember, it can take months, if not years, for the symptoms to set on. You could conceivably catch rabies from that. You can also catch it as a STD through sexual contact, they believe. Sure. This is the CDC theorizing at this point, there's no documented cases. Right. And then you could also conceivably catch it from, like, sharing a cigarette with somebody or drinking after somebody using the same glass. Again, in theory, any transmission of shared saliva, but here's the scariest one to me. It has happened before where you get a transplant of an organ, typically a corneal transplant, and get rabies that way. Yes. We accidentally gave you cornea with rabies. Sorry. And one of the problems, do you think well, how could that possibly happen? Apparently, rabies is very hard to detect, and the main places to detect it remember, it doesn't show up in your blood or anything like that. Yeah. No. Your inner feces is in the saliva and in the brain. Well, yeah, in the saliva. It's not even super accurate, and it takes longer. So for the past 40 years in the United States, the way they test for rabies, if an animal has bit your child, is they capture it and they cut its head off and inspect the brain. Right. That's horrifying. It is, but unfortunately necessary, I guess. If a raccoon bites your kid off with the head, maybe an animal lover out there who's developing scientists will come up with a better, more accurate rabies test that will save the lives of thousands and millions of wood trucks around the world. But I wonder how many times they've been like, oh, thankfully, no rabies. Yeah, no, I'm sure, but sorry, your head is cut off. Yeah. Imagine being the clinician who did that. Bum you out. Yeah, absolutely. Because it's like this thing's head was cut off because somebody thought it had rabies. Terrible. All right, so everybody knows through popular culture and things like Old Yeller, that the foaming of the mouth of a crazed looking dog is a pretty good sign to stay clear. Right. But there are many other ways, especially if they have the dumb form that you might not know. Yeah. And here are some of the symptoms. Partially or fully paralyzed, animal loss of appetite. And a lot of these can be confused for other things because my dearly deceased dog lucy probably ticked off about 90% of these. Well, she really liked PCP. Strange behaviors like snapping at the air or turning in circles. Lucy did that. Nocturnal animals who wander during the day. Like I said, if you see a raccoon walking around during the day, it's not a good sign. No. Drool. Excessively. Lucy. Drooled. While the animals who showed no fear of humans, signs of pika, like eating things that aren't food. Lucy did that all the time. Sporadic changes in mood or behavior. Lucy. Restless or aggressive. No. Obviously disoriented. Lucy. And then a change in voice, which I thought was strange. She was like, how's it going? And generally it varies by region. So, like, maybe here in the south, raccoons, or maybe in another place, it might be skunks largely right. With the animals that have it the most. Right. Yeah. But apparently in the United States, it's raccoons for sure. They have the most. But the mode of transmission in the United States comes through bats more frequently. Yeah. That's the big daddy these days. So if you get, like, 100 bats and 100 raccoons, more raccoons are going to have rabies. But you're more likely to catch rabies from a bat than a raccoon. Yes. And why is that? Well, there's a few reasons. Bats can get into places that raccoons can't. Sure. And bats also have very tiny teeth. And if you're sleeping in a room and you wake up and there's a bat in it, it's recommended that you kill that bat and take it in for rabies testing. Yeah, that's good. So then they can kill it for you. They can do your dirty work for you. But the reason why is because a BAT's teeth are so fine that you can have been bitten in the night and it wouldn't have woken you up. You won't know that you were bitten, but you may have contracted rabies in that case. Yeah. See our excellent episode on bats. Yeah. Which is sad to say, because bats are wonderful. Remember we just came, like, bat crazy over that one. Yeah, very bat friendly podcast. Yes. Don't kill the bats. As a matter of fact, just look the other way if you see a bat in your room, because something bad is going to happen to that bet. If your dog we'll take a break after this, but if your dog is potentially bitten by an animal, you think it might be rabid, they will be isolated for ten days. And if they make it through that ten days, then you're home free. If they don't, sadly, that means you have to go the old yellow route. Except these days it's much more humane. Well, I don't know about more humane, but they don't take it behind the barn and shoot it. Yeah, I mean, I would call that more humane, sure. But in rural Texas, they might be like, no, that's quick and easy and painless. Yeah, just like the shot with the lethal injection. I'm sure that's what they call in Texas. Okay. All right, let's take a break, then I'm going to get your stuff together. Get my stuff together and we'll come back with more rabies. Chuck, you ever been to Bali? No. You haven't? Neither have I. Okay, well, Bali like Hawaii and some other places around the world. Actually, it was a rabies free zone, a place where no cases of rabies have been reported. They are usually isolated, which makes it hard to get rabies into. And they usually also have some really top notch governmental restrictions. Like if you try to take a dog in or out of Hawaii, it takes a very long time and a lot of paperwork. And one of the reasons why is because they don't want rabies coming into their state. You take Momo Hawaii. No, that's why she would be but no, basically, she would get out of quarantine by the time we were leaving. Got you. But my in laws moved and they took their dogs with them, and it was a big deal. Yeah, I'm sure. But in Bali specifically, they were rabies free until 2008, and some dogs contracted rabies somehow and bit some people, and some people died, and it was a big deal. I'm sure they were like, oh, great, there goes our rabies free designation. Sure. Yeah. So they can get it back, though, right? Well, yeah. The government has been eradicating aggressively the rabies that was found on the island. And I'm not sure if they're doing this. I know they're doing a lot of euthanizing, or they did in the affected areas, but in the United States, some wildlife services, they're leaving basically what amounts to, like, a high dose of oral rabies vaccine as tasty bait out just out in the woods to try to control rabies. And the raccoon population, apparently it doesn't harm humans or dogs, too. Right. The bait. And the reason that they're doing this is because they saw what a great job at eradicating rabies among dogs in the United States, because it used to be that rabies in the US. Was very frequently transmitted by dogs, and in a lot of the rest of the world, dogs are still a major mode of transmission. Right, sure. But in the US. Rabies vaccination push among pets has really lowered that. In the dog population, especially. Yeah. And push meaning laws. Sure. I don't think it's in every state now, but I think most states now require by law pretty sensible. Yeah. If you have a pet, you should have a non rabid pet. Yes. Like you would say, no, I don't want my dog getting that rabies. Fine. Range would say that, probably. So. This is the most recent stat we have. In 2006.1%, of all rabies cases in the United States were almost at feline, were canine, 11,000 of a percent. Yeah. So that's virtually nil. And I believe in 2006, that same year, not one case of rabies death came from an American dog. Not one case of human rabies death. Right. Correct. Yeah. And then 24% of all US. Wildlife rabies cases are bats. Yeah. Which led to, in 2006, two of the three rabies related deaths were from bat transmissions. Bat bites. It's not good. Actually, I spoke wrong. It wasn't in 2006. It was only since 1995 there has not been one case of death from an American dog. So that's great. They really kind of eradicated that here. That's right. But elsewhere in the world, again, catching rabies from being bitten by a dog is still a real problem. As a matter of fact, the world health organization called rabies among Neglected diseases, one of the most neglected among neglected diseases, there's still 30,000 to 70,000 people who die every year. It's around one every ten minutes from rabies in the developing world. Think about that. In the United States, three people died in 2006. That was a bad year. 70,000 people, as much as 70,000 people around the world are dying from rabies. And the countries that have these really high rabies mortality rates in humans are also the ones that usually have the least amount of money to pay for inoculations and also, even further, have even less money to inoculate their dogs. Right. There's a huge push right now among scientists. Be like rest of the world. You guys need to pay to eradicate rabies, at least in the dog population around the world. Yeah. Do something. And also, when you have that rural areas, they're not able to get to the clinics to receive those regular inoculations. Yeah. Because Pasture came up with the rabies vaccine, and basically his technique has been only slightly altered over the years. It's still a series of shots in the United States or the west. The ones that we have are five shots over the course of a period of time. And again, it's boosting your immunity slowly, and it's a very similar thing. What did the guy in the email say for the last listener mail? Instead of developing lower income countries, in lower income countries, they have a schedule as well. It's not all getting them at once. They have to boost your immunity. And it may not be something like driving down the street to the Minute clinic to get this stuff done. You may have to travel quite a ways and again, miss some work. So it's a big problem. Yeah. You mentioned Pastor's. Brilliant idea. He used an attenuated form of rabies. It's weakened but still alive that he gathered from spinal cords of animals. Right. These days, they kind of do the same thing, but it is not alive form of the virus. It is a dead form of the virus. But like you said, the same idea is that we'll give you this slowly and before it reaches your spinal cord. Ideally, that's a big one. Ideally, if you want to live, then you built up the immunity. Yeah. Hooray. If you have some extra dough in your pocket and want to help out some groups, there's a couple of groups that are working to eradicate rabies in lower income countries, like Rita. Rabies in the Americas and Rabies Free World are both working to eradicate rabies elsewhere. Yeah. And if you have been bitten by an animal that you are worried about, I would just immediately, if I got bitten by a squirrel or something, I would go to the doctor and just get it checked out. Obviously immediately. You don't walk that one off. But here's a little sting. Oh, well, let's see what happens. Yeah. Like the man who castrated himself and then sat down to dinner in the 19th century. Remember we talked about him? He read his Bible and then ate dinner and then went to the doctor. Right. Here are some of the symptoms in humans. Humans? Human beings. Not human beings. I bury it. You rabbit. Stomach pains. It's a change in personality. Right there. Anxiety. I'm also biting at the air. Stomach pain, anxiety, restlessness, fever. Do you have any of this? Nope. Increased aggression, sore throat, excessive. Saliva, hallucinations, delirium. If that's happening, you really should go to the doctor. Yeah. Coma, sporadic pulse. At that point, you should have someone take you to the doctor. And then something called hydrophobia, which we should cover. That used to be a word for rabies. Like, you could say, that person has rabies, or you could say, that person has hydrophobia, and it used to mean the same thing. And why? What's the deal with hydrophobia? It's an intense, unreasonable fear of water that develops from rabies symptoms, apparently. Yeah. Because I think drinking is you have a very violent, painful spasms and responses to trying to swallow water, and so you become fearful of water. That's crazy. Which is really sad because you're drooling and you're producing tons of saliva, but you also are just dying of thirst physically. But if you do drink anything, the pain from your throat muscles contracting is so bad that you will just not drink. You would just rather not drink anything. And apparently you become fearful of even the concept of drinking, so you get scared of water. That's also because your brain is deteriorating at a rapid rate. Man. But yeah, this is not fun. This is not nice stuff. And again, for years and years and years and years, up until, like, the last few years, I think the common conventional wisdom was, if rabies got to your central nervous system, bye bye, we might as well old yellow you, because you're not going to survive and you're going to die. One of the worst deaths we could think of. Yeah. And it wasn't until 2004 this is the lucky lady. Yeah. Gina Geisse. I thought you're going to say Gina Gershon. No, that's what happened to her. Gina Geisse. She was a girl, a teenager in Wisconsin, who was bitten by a bat, I think. And some doctor said, you're a goner, but I'm not going to give up on you, Tina. No way, no how. Sleep now, baby. I'm going to put you in a coma. And he put her in a medically induced coma, and it was enough so that her body was able to fight off the rabies infection. Amazing. So she survived the rabies infection without being inoculated previously and apparently without the inoculation being given to her in a rapid enough time. She literally survived a rabies infection. And now they call that procedure the Milwaukee Protocol, and it saved five more people's lives. They call it that, yeah. And there was a study in Peru, in the Andes, a lot of Peruvian groups live near bats. Sure. They have to deal with bats. Yeah. Apparently some Peruvians have developed immunity to rabies. They documented, I think, about a dozen Peruvians who survived rabies without any inoculation. Wow. So they're saying, okay, this isn't a 100% fatal disease. We can work with that. But it's like really big, gangbusters news. It's almost like a natural inoculation that's happening, though. The same idea, right? They're getting exposed to it gradually. I don't know. I don't know if these people have been bitten before or if some sort of inoculation was passed down to them through heredity. I'm not sure. Like, grand pappy was strong against the rabies. Right. So I am right. That's how jeans work. All right. From 1950s to the roughly mid 1980s, the horror stories were true. You did get upwards of 20 to 23 shots in the belly in the abdomen to treat rabies with big needles, right? Yeah. That was not an old wise tail. It was a very painful procedure. I tried to find out why it was done in the belly, and the only thing I could find is completely unsubstantiated. But makes sense. Apparently, after you start having these shots, somewhere between ten and 20, you start having really bad reactions and inflammation, but you need to give them in the same area. So the belly was the largest part that makes sense of the body, that you could still find a place to give the injection. Right. So I don't know if that's true or not. That makes sense. It definitely does. And we have to mention Ozzy Osbourne. What? Biting the head off a bat? Yeah. It wasn't a live bat. Well, there's different stories. He swears up and down it wasn't alive. No, he swears it was alive because he felt the head moving in his mouth. Oh. Other people have said that it wasn't alive. The fan that threw the bat on stage said it was dead. Ozzy. Right. It was live. It's a good Ozzy. Thank you. But that is not an old wife. He also bit the head off a pigeon at a party, but he thought the bat was a toy. Apparently did bite the BAT's head and did get those injections as a preventative measure, but he did not ever contract rabies. Smart. In this, who knows? It's also called a legend in some circles, but I think it really happened. Documented. While I was researching this, I was like, wow, I am not inoculated against rabies. Maybe I should just go ahead and do that. It would be kind of neat to be like, go ahead and bite me, raccoon. You crazy. Raccoon. I'm fine. And then you could continue your ongoing battle with your squirrels. Your porch deck squirrels? No, the squirrels. One I had to take down the bird feeder. You just gave up? No, the condo complex is like, you're not allowed to have those. They attract squirrels. I'm like, yeah, no doubt they attract squirrels. I know. So I said, all right. It's fine. You got anything else? No. Rabies. If you want to know more about it, type that word into the search bar, howstephorse.com Rabys. And it will bring up this awesome article. I know you want me to spell it correctly? Not spelled that way. R-A-B-I-E-S. That's right. All right. Did you say the oh, and since I misspelled something, it's time for the listener mail. I'm going to call this Cringeworthy experience. Oh, God. Why did we ask? Hey, guys have been listening for a couple of years, writing for the first time to tell you a compelling story about the time my dad's eyeball fell out of his head. Perhaps I should say it was forced out of his head. It takes place before I was born, but the way he tells it, it will make you hesitant to go water skiing. See, my dad was a mob enforcer in Las Vegas. In particular, you wouldn't want to let your body or your face become parallel to the water surface when you're going around to bend in the river. So when that happens, you could experience what happened to my dad. His face skimmed to the water, and the force of that caused his eyeballs to pop right out of his head. Oh, my God. It's stuff that urban legends are made of. So there my dad is in excruciating pain, treading water with his eyeball in the palm of his hands. If you're ever so lucky as to have your eyeball outside of your head, hope that it's still attached like my dad's eyeball was. Can you imagine? He got river water in his eye socket. He forced it back into his eye socket, and there was nothing else he could do at that crucial moment. As I understand that he never went to see a doctor, and his eye has been turned at a 45 degree angle ever since. His name is John Rambo. That is crazy. She said he was relieved six months later while the white static he was seeing slowly started to return and he had normal vision once again, that's outcome bias if I've ever seen it. Cringe. If you experience any squeamish feelings, I consider it a story well told. Yeah, well told story. Though that is from Lena or Lina in California. California? Boy, I don't know. Her dad has made us some tough stuff. If he did not go to a doctor, he's like, Hironati, Ohio. Yeah, crazy. So somebody else wrote in and got me about having to get shots, like up their nose. That one got me, too. So whoever wrote in with that one, hats off. Well, at least this guy got a great nickname out of it. Old river water socket. Jimmy. Yeah, the mouthful. If you have a cringe worthy story, keep it to yourself. Send us something else in via tweet to syskpodcast or join us on Facebook. Comstnaw. Send us an email to stuffpodcasterhousepupports.com. And as always, join us at our home on the Web stuffysheno.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howtofworks.com." | ||
873d6202-3b0e-11eb-9699-33fddf206e0d | Your Gut Is Also A Brain | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/your-gut-is-also-a-brain | Your gut – not your spare tire, but your digestive tract – is deceptively smart. Not only does it handle processing food and nutrients, but the hundreds of trillions of bacteria that live in your gut may actually be telling your brain what to do too. | Your gut – not your spare tire, but your digestive tract – is deceptively smart. Not only does it handle processing food and nutrients, but the hundreds of trillions of bacteria that live in your gut may actually be telling your brain what to do too. | Thu, 02 Dec 2021 13:19:08 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2021, tm_mon=12, tm_mday=2, tm_hour=13, tm_min=19, tm_sec=8, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=336, tm_isdst=0) | 44933195 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio. Hi and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there. And it's just the two of us, we're flying solo and that's okay, we're going to do this. And this is stuff we should know. Yeah. Before we get going. We are the worst self promoters and we consistently forget to tell people that we have a book and a board game for sale for Christmas. That's a great point, Chuck. And every once in a while they'll say things like, if you guys want to mention this, did they say that? I feel like every now and then we get emails that say, hey, did you forget that you have these things? I don't forget, I just assume like everybody doesn't want to hear about it. Oh, I know, but we're just not good at this now. We're not. As we stumble through yet another self promotion, we have a book in a board game and they both make great Christmas gifts. Please stop. This is making me so uncomfortable. Go buy them everybody. Yeah, they're actually pretty good. We're proud of both of them. We wrote a book and we also with our good buddy Mills Parker, I should say. And we also helped create a board game with our good buddies over a Trivial Pursuit. So, yeah, I'm very proud of it. It's a legacy kind of thing. That's right. So we might have a couple of these reminders before Christmas because they do make great gifts for the Stuff You Should Know friend in your life. Absolutely. That was a great idea, Chuck. And it didn't feel so bad after all. That's right. And now on to our probably, I think, 8th episode. I think that culminates it's culminated in this after many episodes dealing with this stuff. Well, that's funny that you say that because I was going to caveat this with like we will surely do another episode on this down the road within the next several years, I'm sure, because you're obsessed with it. I'm obsessed with it, number one, absolutely. It's one of the most interesting things because this kind of stuff we're going to talk about the gut brain microbiome axis, and it reveals, Chuck, how little we actually know about our bodies and how they function. But it also provides these penalizing clues about how cool the stuff we have left to understand is, you know what I mean? One day we're going to understand exactly how our bodies function and it's going to be mind boggling. I'm just very excited about it. So yes, I'm obsessed with it. But the other reason why we'll surely do it again is because the stuff that we are going to talk about, we got to disclaim this episode in that it's pioneering like cutting edge research, not bleeding edge, cutting edge research. So it's going to keep evolving. But that also means, Charles, that you and I can just be like, Gee whiz. And wow at this point, because this is all just very early study kind of stuff. That's right. And if you want to really get ready for this one, you could listen to episodes on Digestion, Fecal Transplants, Yup, the Microbiome, Human Microbiome Project, immune System Probiotics, and even our buddy Fight or Flight. Yeah. And then just listen to the one on Pyromania for kicks. Did we do one on Pyramania? Of course. It's funny. I was looking through the list the other day for a very special thing we have coming up that we can announce yet. It's more self promotion, too, which we're very excited about, but I was looking through all of our episodes, and, boy, it's getting more and more around, like, huh? What? Really? Yeah. Imagine somebody trying to wade into this stuff and just encountering it now. Yeah. At one point, though, I was like, was I abducted for a few years? I don't remember a lot of these. Yeah, I have the same thing going on. But also, Chuck, now that you mentioned the list, I want to give a huge hat tip again to our Minister of Stats, Jill Hurley, who just doggedly and tirelessly chronicles every single episode we've ever done. There's a Google sheet out there that's open access that has every single episode in order, including the selects or when they ran as a select. It's just an amazing thing that she's doing for free, for the love of it. I'm guessing she still loves it, I hope. Well, herls, if nothing else, is stubborn. She won't quit, even if she hates it. That's right. So let's talk about the gut brain microbiome access, Chuck, because there's a couple of ways to look at it, and the first way is the way that you would expect that you do things like digest food. Your gut linings produce mucus, you poop things out after you eat them, you even swallow. And your brain has a lot of other stuff to do than to just micromanage that. So you have an entirely different secondary central nervous system that's dedicated exclusively to eating, digestion, and harvesting nutrients from your food. And that's called the enteric nervous system. That's right. And this is definitely one we hit on in the digestion episode, but they handle it all in the interior nervous system. The ENS is really similar in a lot of ways to our own central nervous system in that it's made up of nerves and neurons and neurotransmitters, and it kind of does its own thing for the most part as far as controlling that stuff without the central nervous system lording over it, saying, you forgot this part. You might want to move this to the intestine a little quicker. It kind of does its own thing. But this gut brain sort of connection that we're talking about is really a connection between the ENS and the CNS, because they have figured that these two systems talk to each other, and they talk to each other from the gut to the brain, which is the really surprising part. We've kind of always known that the brain talks to the gut, but now we're learning, hey, it looks like the gut is actually sending messages to the brain. And a lot of the stuff we thought was a certain way could be actually backwards. Like IBS. Yeah. Like, we've thought for a very long time that people with IBS, which is basically your lower parts, aren't working at full steam. Either you're pooping too much, and you got really thin, watery poops, or you're pooping too little, you're constipated. Either way, you have irritable bowel. It's one of the most appropriately named syndromes there is. Right? Yes. And, of course, everybody's walking around knowing that anybody who has IBS is suffering from stress or anxiety, and so it's bringing on digestive issues. Well, this is why this stuff is so mind blowing. The field of research that investigates the gut brain microbiome access is saying actually, it's like Chuck just said. It might go both ways. You might have stress and anxiety, not because of your job or like there's something stressing you out. The guy down the block keeps looking at you weird. That's not why you're stressed out or anxious. It's because you have IBS that's causing your stress and anxiety. We may have had it backwards all this time. Yeah. And to be specific, you can get anxiety, obviously, because you have IBS, but what they're saying is, it's a chicken. And the egg thing is the origin of this is actually in the gut. And not like, oh, I have IBS because I'm anxious. Right. And the reason why they're saying that this is even possible is because that cross talk goes both ways. We're starting to find more and more evidence of just how the gut could possibly speak to the brain and send its own signals. And one of the main ones is the vagus nerve, which made a starring appearance in our episode on what happens in the brain during an orgasm. The vagus nerve is all about that. But the vagus nerve also has a lot to do with connecting the interrict nervous system with the central nervous system as well. Yeah, I mean, we've known for a long time, and we talked about this some in our fight or flight episode that let's say you're out in the woods and you're camping, and you have to go to the potty, and you go and you squat down in the middle of nowhere, you're enjoying your time, you're about to do your business, and a bear pops his head up. What are you doing? Your body. Well, the bear is like, I know what that means, but I'm here to interrupt that. The bear says, I poop in the woods, too. That's right. That bear, you will go on an immediate sphincter lock, and it's not just because it's not just a physical reaction you choose to do, like, oh, I better stop what I'm doing, because there's a bear. Like, your body goes into fight or flight, and your brain sends a signal to your body saying, whatever else you're doing, shut it down now, because the most important thing going on right now is this bear in front of you. Yeah, like the FBI guy. And diehard. Shut it down now because the brain is saying, we've got much better things to do with the energy that you're using to digest that food right now. So, of course, the brain can talk to the enteric nervous system when it's fight or flight time. And at this point, Chuck, I want to give another huge hat tip to our own Dave Rouge, who helped us with this one bang up job. He came up with an entirely new phrase for fight or flight, battle or skedaddle. Yeah, it's so good that I wrote an email just calling that one out, saying, like, this was a priceless term. He said that was all mine, so hopefully I figured a way to copyright that one he made up for Bruce Springstein. That's right. So, yes, we know that the brain can talk to the ENS, but the ENS can talk to the brain via the vagus nerve as well. And what they're figuring out is that it communicates in a number of different ways with the vagus nerve specifically. And this is why they call it the gut brain microbiota or microbiome axis. Because what we're figuring out is, yes, you have cells that line your intestines, your guts that are neurons. You have neural cells, you have sensory cells. You have a lot of the same cells that your brain uses to make sense of the world. Your gut has the same cells, too. But we're figuring out that the bacteria that lives in your gut is actually communicating to your brain and saying, hey, change this behavior. Hey, try this instead. Hey, have you considered a red sweater? Green is just not your color. Like, the bacteria that live in our gut are telling our brains what to do. In some ways, it's pretty remarkable. This is why we keep talking about this, Chuck. The bacteria, in addition to doing all the other great things they do, they produce metabolites. And these metabolites actually do function as neurotransmitters. And one of the big examples that Dave dug up, and it's a big part of kind of one of the cruxes of this communication with the gut and the brain are these short chain fatty acids, sfcas. They are byproducts or natural byproducts of fermentation. When you're digesting this dietary fiber, if you're hopefully eating enough dietary fiber, something I've had to do a lot more lately. It's so good for you. It's crazy. It seems like the key to health. It is. And I don't want to get too gross here, but I've been on a lot of high fiber, and I have been more gassy than I've ever been in my life. I know. And it's not even stinky gassy. It's almost just like air. Very lucky. Yeah, because I'm saying my toots don't stink anymore at all, ever. But these, like, fiber toots don't really stink. That is really bizarre, because cruciferous vegetable toots can really clear room. I guess there's a way to put it. You're blessed, Chuck. Your hashtag blessed. Well, my family's blessed, I guess, because I don't really care. But you're like I kind of miss it. But where were we? Short chain fatty acids. They are, like I said, natural byproducts, and they play a really big role in the digestive tract, and they're sending one of the things, sending these signals to your ENS, and they're saying, hey, maybe you should make more mucus. Maybe I can get the gut a little less inflamed. Maybe I can stop a little leakage from happening. So the short chain fatty acids themselves, they're involved in neurotransmitters, but apparently they can talk to the brain themselves, too, right? Like, they don't have to convert into anything else, I think. So just through the Vegas nerve, right? Yes, they go through the Vegas nerve. That's the key here. And we've recently found a new kind of cell that line the gut that are actually connected. They connect the gut to the vagus nerve. They're called neuropod cells. And that's how they think that the gut is actually communicating with the brain through the vagus nerve. They think they found kind of like the smoking gun or the missing link or whatever. But that's how these short chain fatty acids would travel up the nerve. They would send their signal up the nerve, or they would travel through the circulatory system, which is another way that they figured out the gut can actually impact the brain. So you get the vagus nerve, and then you have the circulatory system. And if all of those metabolites that are being produced by your bacteria, they're fermenting, and different bacteria create different metabolites as they ferment your food and your dietary fiber. And those metabolites, like you said, sometimes they're short chain fatty acids sometimes, which can be like a precursor to neurotransmitters or possibly a neurotransmitter itself. They actually build actual neurotransmitters, too, like serotonin dopamine. GABA noradrenaline all these things are actually constructed by the bacteria in your gut as well. And we know for a fact that those things can make it through the circulatory system to the brain, and they definitely have an impact on the brain and what the brain does. All right, maybe we should take a break. All right. Take a pause for the cause. I'm just going to keep talking through the ad break. I'm too excited. All right, we'll be back right after this. Hey, everyone. 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Click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. All right, so when we left, we were talking about a lot of stuff that sounds pretty amazing and that we're just figuring out, one of which is that the short chain fatty acids are actually able to stimulate that vagus nerve that we were talking about that stimulates the production of neurotransmitters. But here's sort of the headline is some of these neurotransmitters can actually play a role in mood disorders. So we're not just talking about a two way street with things like fight or flight. We're talking about potentially autism, parkinson's, depression, anxiety, like we were talking about with IBS. And they know this because they took in these poor little mice. I know that they're always doing the hard work on mice, but they've taken mice they've severed the vagus nerve in mice to see what happened. And what they observed was that this gut bacteria had a real effect on brain chemistry, because when they shut it down, they found big time reduction in stress hormone levels. They completely went away in these mice. Right. Which you would think their stress hormones would go up. Having their vagus nerves, that that would be a really stressful thing. But now that's really, like, a good illustration of the point that we're at in research. There's not been a thing where it's like, oh, this is exactly how this happens. This is how your gut microbiota affects your brain and your brain chemistry. We're not there yet. We just know that there is a definite correlation, not just in my studies, Chuck, but also in human studies, which we'll talk about later. There's plenty of human diseases that we've long known. If you have this disease, you also have irritable bowel syndrome, or constipation is a hallmark of this neurological disorder that you wouldn't expect. We've known that they're connected, and it's all kind of correlative. Now we're trying to figure out the causes of it. That's right. And it's not just like this communication isn't only happening through the Vegas nerve. Right. You kind of briefly mentioned before the break, but there are all kinds of ways that they're communicating that we're founding out. One of them is through the circulatory system. We used to think that the brain was just sort of shut down from behind the blood brain barrier, but now they're showing that hormones are getting through there other things are passing through. We've known about ghrelin, we've talked about ghrelin for a while. The hunger hormone that basically the stomach produces, it sends a message to the brain that says, I'm hungry. So we've known that can pass through, but now they're learning things. Like you mentioned serotonin to me, this is one of the facts of the show. 95% of our serotonin is actually produced by gut bacteria. Yes, the brain also can produce serotonin. It can produce its own, but it appears that I guess just 5%, right. The serotonin. A lot of the serotonin that the brain uses comes from the gut, comes from bacteria fermenting food and producing as a byproduct of metabolism. It just so happens to produce this neurotransmitter and I don't think anybody who's looking into this is saying it just so happens we appear to have coevolved to take advantage of this. Like these bacteria started colonizing our guts, producing serotonin so much that our body found a way to really use serotonin in all sorts of different ways, including our brain to regulate mood and stuff like that. And that's one of the huge underlying messages of this, is that our microbiome, the bacteria that live inside of us, they have way more genes than we have. We have something like 200 genes in the human genome, but our microbiome typically has something like 2 million combined genes. And with those genes, with all those extra genes that we don't have all that bacteria can produce stuff that we can't even produce, like vitamins and neurotransmitters that we wouldn't necessarily be able to produce on our own and yet we rely on to function correctly. That's the most amazing example of symbiosis I've ever heard in my life. But the idea that bacteria fermenting food in your gut chuck affects your mood or your outlook or whether you have a cognitive disorder like that's really substantial. It's super substantial. I know I could have come up with a better descriptor than really substantial, but I'm just to a GOG. Should we talk about the study of college students? Yeah. As far as trying to provide a link between a two way street between stress and our gut, they said, well, there's no better place to go than two college students who are prepping for exams. And they said, if we're going to find out what's going on down there, we need to look at their stools. And they tested the stools during exam week and found that their feces had a lot less lactobacilli, which is one of the good bacterias, than during the first week of class when they're just getting to know each other and partying and stuff like that. The same when they studied monkeys, little infant monkeys. And there's one of those tests, it's a little bit sad, no one's dying here, but they're stressing out mama monkeys on purpose. So they've got these mama monkeys and they'll play these loud noises while they're pregnant to kind of like shock them. And with the mothers who had say what? I got to stop you. I'm sorry. You just made a shock the monkey joke without even intending. That was fantastic. Yes. I could not let that walk by. Congratulations on that. Monkey, monkey. Great song. I wonder if they just walk around singing that constantly. There's no way they don't. And then they get home at night and they're like, oh. And they feel a little guilty about it because they remember why they're singing Shock the Monkey because they're actually shocking monkeys for a living. And we mean shocking with loud noises, not shocking with electricity. Right? Well, yeah, that's what I guess Peter Gabriel meant, too. But now I think about it, I don't know, maybe he was talking about with electricity or I wonder if there's just one person. Like the person who runs the lab on their way out says because they probably do it in their sleep, though. So you remember you got to shock the monkey tonight. And everyone else just rolls their eyes and they have to put up with Marty. Yeah. And where's the piano keyboard tie every day. But there are different ones too, because some of them have red backgrounds. You can tell there's a little different. Alright, so they make these loud noises and then the monkey, the mama monkeys who were shocked by these sounds, they had gut microbiomes with a lot lower levels of this good bacteria lactobacilli and boy bifide doug Bispheredobacteria. Yes. That's, like, stuff in yogurt. I think both of those which we'll get to. All right. A little bit of foreshadowing there. But they had a disbiotic microbiome is the upshot of it. Right? Yeah. Things get unbalanced basically because of these stress noises that they hear. Right. But it goes the other way too, that they're figuring out that if your gut microbiome gets out of balance, then that can make you stressed out. Right. That can actually lead to mood disorders that they're connecting like a really poor diet that's very low in dietary fiber. Because again, that's what your microbiome likes to crunch on and produces really important things like serotonin and dopamine from that. If you don't eat very well, it's possible your mood might not be as great or your outlook on life or your mental health might not be as great as it could be if you actually did have a much healthier diet that is very substantial. It is. And I think that kind of stuff kind of feeds on each other. It becomes this circular loop. Yeah, well, that was something that Dave pointed out too, that they're starting to realize that your CNS, your central nervous system and your enterprise nervous system are probably in communication constantly. They're just sharing information back and forth because it doesn't make any evolutionary sense for your bacteria to just be running the show and telling your brain what to do. That's one of the grimmest things I can possibly imagine, is that we're actually just puppets for bacteria in our gut. Yeah. But at the same time, it doesn't make sense for your brain to be controlling your ENS. Your ENS is a semiautonomous nervous system. So they're not bossing each other around. They're just sharing information and then making adjustments accordingly. But they can also affect one another and impact one another negatively. When things are out of whack, whether you're stressed out, it can affect your gut, or if your gut is not doing well, it can stress you out. That's what we're finding. That's right. And that is so substantial. Is that the second time you said that? Third. Okay. I don't think you picked up the second one. That's all right. And the reason this is big stuff, and if you're wondering, like, yes, but where is this all leading? We're about to tell you, because it's not just IBS. If you have Parkinson's or if you or a family member is on the autism spectrum disorder, they're not saying that they can cure this stuff, but they are finding out very promising tests and studies that things like Parkinson's and autism can be mitigated somewhat with the use of certain probiotics and maybe in the future, fecal transplant. Yes. I don't think anybody credible is saying, like, oh, we can cure autism spectrum disorder with probiotics, or something like that. But there's a lot of mounting evidence that you can alleviate a lot of the symptoms, including things like behavior like social avoidance or not being interested in social novelty. A lot of the classic symptoms that are associated with autism spectrum disorder that in my studies at least, they clear up a little bit. They adjust. They actually kind of go away in some cases when you adjust the gut microbiota of these mice who have the mice analogy of autism. Yeah. And GI problems are not always, but pretty much synonymous with autism spectrum disorder. If you have Parkinson's, you probably also have constipation. This has been true from the very first patients that were diagnosed by Dr. Parkinson himself. He realized that you also have constipation. Back then. This was sort of in the age where I can't remember one of the recent episodes where he used to sort of have colonics and enemas for almost everything. Well, that was probably the Kellogg's episode. No, we referenced the Kellogg. It was like a couple of weeks ago. I don't know why. We talk about colonics and enemies a lot in this show. I think it was maybe we're talking about the bleeders, the barbers. Yeah, that was it. Because they used to give people enemas for everything, but they may have been on to something a little bit. It's like kind of quacky as it sounded back in the day where if you had Parkinson's and constipation, they would give you a colonic or something or an enema and it would kind of help your Parkinson's out. And people dismissed that a long time ago, but they may have actually been onto something a little bit there. Yeah. The idea is that this is the current understanding of why Parkinson's and gut issues may be related is that they actually think it might start with gut issues, that you have a certain type of E. Coli that's producing a protein called curly curli and that curly has an effect in causing other proteins to misfold, which makes it a prion. Remember those? Yeah. So this pre on curly causes misfolding of proteins in your gut. They end up clumping, which ends up constipating you. And this process starts a good 20 years before you show the classic symptoms of Parkinson's. This is amazing. Right. But the point is that by this time, after 20 years, your curly production has gotten so good that it starts to travel up to the brain, where it starts misfolding proteins up there. Then you start to have the classic symptoms of Parkinson's, like tremors and shaking and eventually possibly even hallucinations and things like that. But that all starts in your gut with the E. Coli that is colonized your gut, creating this curly protein. Prion. Yes. And this is one of those where research is going to help, hopefully yield some, if not cure, some things that can help mitigate some of the effects of Parkinson's. But what it really could do is serve as an early warning system. That's not to say that if you have constipation, you're going to get Parkinson's in 20 years, but if you have chronic constipation and it could be one of those things that they then look at and say, hey, this is something we might need to watch out for. Right. And that's actually I've seen somebody propose in a paper from. I think this year that you use the biomarkers of what's called leaky gut as an early diagnosis of autism. Because autism is usually diagnosed after a few years of age. I think maybe three or five or something like that. That they don't typically diagnose it before then. But that you would have leaky gut long before this and you could find it and possibly treat it. Because leaky gut is this idea where your gut lining is meant to be semipermeable, where only the stuff your gut wants to make it through, like nutrients and neurotransmitters and stuff like that are able to pass through. Leaky gut is where you have basically holes and cracks in that lining. And so unwanted stuff like toxins and bugs and partially digested. Food can make it through your gut and causes inflammation. And then there's this whole cascading problem. And that is why leaky gut is associated with things like autism and I think even rheumatoid arthritis and a whole host of other diseases. So they're saying if we look for leaky gut and we find it, there's a good chance, I think, like, 90% of people on the autism spectrum have leaky gut as well. That that would be a pretty good indication of autism diagnosis later in life. Yeah. I talked to one of my really good friends, has a son with autism, and I was texting him about this, and it's like, man, there's a lot of really interesting research. And I asked him about his son having GI issues, and he said, since day one, literally. Yeah. And I was like, you're going to really dig this. He's a listener too. So I was like, you're going to really dig this episode. I said, they've come a long way. I said, the future looks bright for helping to mitigate maybe some symptoms. Yeah, there seems to be treatable leaky gut seems to be a treatable thing where it's probably the result of dysbiotic microbiota, and that if you introduce certain kinds of bacteria that you want that's missing, it may actually alleviate symptoms. Again, I don't think anybody is saying, like, you can cure autism just with probiotics, but it's possible that probiotics could really change somebody with autism life for the better in a lot of ways, just from a probiotic supplement, for sure. And so there's a bunch of companies, apparently they're just throwing venture capitalists are just throwing money at any company working on this right now. They're called psychobiotics. This idea that you can create. Like. A probiotic cocktail to treat something like autism or multiple sclerosis or rheumatoid arthritis. And that you don't have to use pharmaceuticals or drugs that function in ways we don't really understand. That what you're doing is going to the bacteria and saying. Here. Live here and do your natural thing and produce the stuff that this patient isn't producing on their own. Won't you? And that's just the most substantial way you can think of to treat something like that. Super substantial. Yeah, super substantial. All right, well, let's take our second break, and we will come back and wrap this puppy up right after this. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. So why are you still taking time out of your day to go to the post office when you could be using Stamps.com? Yeah. For more than 20 years, stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses because Stamps.com gives you access to all the post office and ups shipping services you need right from your computer. That's right. You can streamline your shipping process with Stamps.com easy to use software. All you need is your regular computer and printer no special supplies or equipment necessary. And you can get discounts you can't find anywhere else, like up to 30% off USPS. Rates and 86% off ups. So stop wasting time and start saving money. When you use stamps.com to mail and ship, sign up with promo code stuff for a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. So back to the autism spectrum disorder. This is about ten years ago. They found a correlation between mothers who had a high sort of long term prolonged fever during pregnancy, that they were seven times more likely to give birth to a baby who had symptoms of ASD. Again, correlation, right? And then again the mice come into play. They got these pregnant mice, they infected them with a flu virus. It's just poor mice, I know. And they caused a spiking fever and they gave birth to babies. And they can't test baby mice for autism, but what they can do is study their patterns and their behaviors. And they did find that they had limited social interactions, they had decreased vocalizations, they were doing repeated behaviors, they had leaky bowels, some of the things that you might experience on the autism spectrum disorder, right? So they kind of traced that to this idea, this theory. And there's a bunch of theories about how people might develop autism, but this idea that when the mom has a fever, an immune response is activated by a gut microbe, a particular one called segmented filamentous bacteria, and that it gets T cells and cytokines active. Remember we talked about cytokines in the mRNA episode and they want to store they are helpful, but they can also overblow things quite a bit because they run around activating all sorts of other immune cells and basically say go. And so the idea is that this triggers inflammation. And inflammation seems to be a huge problem for all sorts of things, everything from neurological disorders to arthritis to irritable bowel syndrome to basically anything that can be wrong with you seems to have some sort of basis in inflammation. Like your body is mounting an immune response and you're suffering as a result. And so that's what the idea is with this, that these cytokines actually travel through the placenta and have an impact on the neurodevelopment of the fetus. And that is what causes autism. So that it's traced back to the gut's ability to trigger the immune system, which is another whole thing that has even wider implications than autism spectrum disorder too. It can trigger all sorts of other problems. It might not even have to do with the developing fetus. It can happen within you. Like it can cause cytokines to travel up to your brain and produce neurological disorders in you as well. Mental health issues in you as well, that the gut and inflammation happening in a bad combo is good for the average human. They're finding that's right. You mentioned psychobiotics before the break. This is the idea that you can again use something like Probiotics to treat anxiety or depression. And they have had a little bit of good fortune with the results here. And it looks like they're doing some of this on humans. A lot of those in rats, I think in 2011, they studied both rats and humans and they gave them strains of bacteria for about 30 days. Lactobacillus, helveticus and beefy dope. That's the same one from before. Bifidobacterium Longham. Nice. They should just name these BIFF. Yeah, exactly. Just call them by their pet names like Lacto and BIFF. Yes, those two old friends. That's right. They really are, too. They seem to they pop up a lot where it's like, no, this is what you want. Like, if you look at probiotic supplements almost across the board, you're going to find Lacto and BIFF in there. Yeah, Lacto and BIFF, the two we love to eat. But they then put these people and mice through stress test and found a, quote, significant reduction in anxiety like behavior in the rats and actual psychological distress was being alleviated in humans as well. Yeah, this is where what we're moving toward now is treating mood disorders, neurological disorders, mental health issues, a whole host of physical maladies, chronic diseases with probiotics. If you can figure out what's missing in these patients, then you can grow that bacteria and put them in the person through, like, pills and it's possible they'll clear it up. Another theory of where autism comes from is that there's a depleted gut where there's bacteria that's missing from the person. And they found in mice studies, they are able to produce germ free mice, chuck and those germ free mice tend to exhibit the autistic symptoms that when they treat them with Probiotics that those autistic symptoms tend to clear up, which is pretty amazing. Yeah. It doesn't almost seem like what is definitely happening. As science has progressed over the years, it feels like it's become way less segmented. Here's your brain and here's your nervous system, and here's your organs, and here's this stuff, and it's all compartmentalized. And it just seems like through our own research over the years, everything is linked together, it seems like. Yeah. There's a whole field called functional medicine that's developing that gets super poo pooed by skeptics it's understandable. It's a very early field and there are plenty of practitioners who overdo it in what they say that can be accomplished. But the whole idea behind it is it's integrative. Another name for it is integrative medicine, where one of the first things you would do when somebody came in with a problem, no matter what it was, is adjust their diet to a healthier diet and start there because this idea of, like, you're part of a big interconnected whole. That's how our bodies function. It seems intuitive to me now. Yeah. I mean, Emily goes to a functional medicine doctor in addition to our regular MD. It doesn't have to be one or the other thing, right. Ideally, they work not together together, but they won't even speak to one another as a patient. Ideally, they work. You can work with both, is what I'm saying. Yeah. You just don't tell them about each other. She is, as you know, is suffering through lime right now. I didn't know that. Oh, no. Oh, I didn't tell you that? No. Man, that's terrible. Yeah, it's been a bad scene. I'll be here at the house for a while, but her diet is one of the big she's on this crazy, weird, awful diet. Nothing but goat milk. No, but lots of weird forest floor tea and just stuff that not able to eat. I mean, you name it, man. So many things that she can't have right now, man, to try and help it out, because the antibiotics they put her on were wrecking her. Well, yeah, that's another thing, too, is they're figuring out that antibiotics to treat just random stuff or, like, the flu or something like that, that can have a huge, terrible effect on your gut chemistry and can have cascading effects down the road. That's another thing that they're just kind of in the initial studies of, and it's not any shade on antibiotics. They basically have saved more lives than can be possibly counted, but we have tended to kind of lean toward prescribing them willy nilly, and people don't finish their prescription anyway, so there's all sorts of problems with it. But they're finding, like, there's a lot of less than obvious problems that can come about from killing off your gut microbiome. Totally. So there's one last thing I want to end with real quick, Chuck. One of the guys, the guy who actually, along with a guy named Ted Dean, coined the term psychobiotics and psychobiome, which is a description of how your microbiome produces neurotransmitters, like serotonin and dopamine and all that. His name is John Crying, and he has a theory of why we would have evolved to have a microbiome that would impact whether we're social or not. Because it's weird if you think about it. Why would your gut microbiome, being off, like, dysbiotic have any impact on socialization? Right? Yeah, this is super interesting. And the Ted Talk is Ted Med. It's awesome. If you have time to go watch it a little heady, but good stuff. His theory he basically studied the same germ free mice that you were talking about that they basically don't have a microbiome of their own. Very sad. And he found out that these germ free mice showed a lot of social impairment, especially the male mice, and he compared that to the germ free mice to symptoms of ASD and found that it also affected male. So again, that got him thinking kind of like, what's going on with this stuff? So he said, I wonder if having a healthy, sociable human is dependent on that gut bacteria. With the idea being that we're all hanging out together in groups, tuktuk and the gang, and we're trading bacteria with one another, we're in close contact with one another and swap and spit with one another. So our bacteria is more varied, basically. And that's how it's selecting that as a positive trait. Yeah. From the bacteria standpoint, the more humans there are around, the more hosts you have to colonize, the more the bacteria species thrives. Right. So it's beneficial either way. We actually get a lot out of being social. We have longer lifespans, we have a better outlook on life, the more like close friends and support network we have. It's just been documented over and over again. And it seems to be like the more we look into the microbiome and the psychobiome that is driven by bacteria that seem to make us more social through their byproducts that they make that travel to our brain, it's that circular loop again. Yeah. So win win is another way to put it and I love that. You got anything else for now? Nothing that's super significant. Okay, well, if you want to know more about the psychobiome, go watch John crying Ted MedTalk and also check out Science, the Journal Sciences website, meet the Psychobiome. It's a really good introduction too. And since I said it's a really good introduction too, it's time for listener mail. I got to call this from listeners in their 70s. We'd love to hear from our listeners that are even older than me. It makes me feel good. Hey guys, my wife and I love your podcast. And this, I think, is just a bit of a reminder for us. I've been listening for years now, every afternoon while playing Spite and Malice. Do you know what that is? It sounded really familiar and I didn't have time to look it up because that email just came in, right? Yes, it's hot off the presses. Okay. We're both in our seventy s and love learning things we still won't know. But this email is to mention to both of you lately that your childhood folklore religious vocabulary has uptick some, just reminding you that young people around the world are listening and the word use brain framing is occurring bigly. We suggest for your consideration to stay with secular language like Ce for the current era. We used to default to Ce. I guess we kind of have flopped back a little bit, haven't we? I hadn't noticed. I wonder if we didn't in the folklore episode because they just referenced folklore and we just ran the Folklore select recently. So maybe they're thinking like, that's the current episode. Oh, that's my guess. Okay, it's your guess is that we're on it. I feel like we're on it. I hadn't noticed anything like that. I feel like we said BC recently. I think you're talking about the headache powder. Okay. Which I love. We suggest you use secular language like Ce for this current era, for example, in explaining historical timelines and science miracles, or cumicles, as we call them. And science is miraculous in its own right, with all credit to the amazing human beings who discover the actuality of our natural universe. Thanks for what you do. Keep them coming. This is from Andre and Meredith Ryland in Pensacola, Florida. Thanks a lot, Andre. And Meredith. We appreciate you guys writing in. And if you want to be like those two and write in yourself, well, we want to hear it. Send us an email to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio. 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How Spiders Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-spiders-work | Spiders are second only to snakes in the dread departemnt, but they're actually very helpful arachnids who are only deadly to humans under the worst case scenario. Of the more than 40,000 species, very few spiders are even venomous to humans. Learn everyt | Spiders are second only to snakes in the dread departemnt, but they're actually very helpful arachnids who are only deadly to humans under the worst case scenario. Of the more than 40,000 species, very few spiders are even venomous to humans. Learn everyt | Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:00:42 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2015, tm_mon=4, tm_mday=30, tm_hour=14, tm_min=0, tm_sec=42, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=120, tm_isdst=0) | 56384851 | audio/mpeg | "This episode is brought to you. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from Housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Yeah. There's charles W. Tuck Bryant. Jerry's over there. And this is stuff you should know. The podcast. That's right. How are you doing? I'm doing great, man. Good. How are you doing, Jerry? Oh, goodness me. Good to be back in one A. It's been spiders and stuff 24 hours. Yes. Last year, I saw one thing when I was watching a documentary on spiders that they said, you're never more than an arm length away from lots of spiders. Yeah. And I wonder because I finally did your little trick with the flashlight. Did it work? Oh, yeah, dude. It's horrifying. They are everywhere. But I wonder about, like, in this room. It feels like hermetically sealed concrete vault. Are there spiders in here, though? There's one dangling above your head right now. I see a lot. They're good at hiding. They're small. So you're saying they're in here? I would guess so. I mean, why would they not be in here? Like, the one place in the world yeah. They've been around for, what, 400 million years? Yeah, they're pretty durable. They've spread everywhere. Everywhere, baby. And one of the ways that they have adapted is by generating new species. Yeah. Like, to the tune of 40,000 that we know about. And they're like, there may be thousands of more species. Not just spiders. Yeah, species. Exactly. They have a tendency to kind of take over an area because they're actually in their realm of existence. They're frequently apex predators. Yeah. They've been, like, into sharks in that they are robots that kill and eat and make baby spiders. Right. That's sort of what they do in life. Yes. But they also do some pretty neat geometric designs. Sure. The spiders are pretty fascinating, super creepy things. Yeah. That thing you sent, how they take over? Like, that building? Yeah. It was Baltimore's wastewater treatment plant. They took over four acres of it. It was abandoned, right? No. Oh, really? Yeah, they just got a foothold in there. That happened while dudes were working in the building? Yeah. They didn't notice? Yeah, they said no, they noticed, but what are these guys going to do? They're like wastewater treatment guys, not exterminators. So they didn't know what to do. They call it exterminators? Well, they did. The Baltimore city was like, can anybody help with this? We have something of a spider problem. And actually brought in some academics who determined that something like there were 35,000 spiders per cubic meter in that building. That is a ton of spiders. They were saying in this article I think it was on Wired points out that these are mid career Etymologists who have seen stuff before. They say etymologists entomologists. Right? Yeah. And they were like, I've never seen anything like this before in my life. So they brought in the spider version of quint from Jaws, probably. He's like, you're going to have to move. You have to kill the queen. Yeah, no, I think even he was like, Where you guys got to go? No, there's not a queen. Because I didn't realize this, but it makes sense when I hear it. Spiders lead solitary lives. They bow down to no one. Yeah. They just do what they want to do. Yes. And spiders are not insects. They are arachnids. In the class. Arachnida, the order Aranea or arinay. We even got told how to pronounce those words. I think it's just a isn't that what the lady said who wrote us? No, I think she said it's pronounced like it looks okay, so it'd be Aaronais. Well, it's the same order as Ticks that we've talked about in Scorpions, which I would like to cover at some point. Scorpions. And what was that? My scorpion. Oh, I thought you were going to sing Rocky like a Hurricane. I'd probably sing Winds of Change instead. Really? Yeah. Down in Goggle past. It's a good song. Yeah, man. I like it a little harder. I like it all scorpions all the time. All right, so spiders, because there are 40,000 species, they obviously differ from the tiniest little thing to the Goliath bird eater of Australia, which can be as big as a dinner plate. I think that's actually from South America. Oh, is it? I thought those were Australian. No, Australia has plenty of spiders. Scary ones, too. But the goliath bird eaters and it's called the bird eater because it can actually eat small birds. It does. It frequently eats little baby birds. Yes. But those are still birds. And it's a spider eating a bird. There's a video that we have on the podcast page for this episode of a goliath spider eating a mouth. Yeah. And it's remarkable. Yeah. Dude, I saw one of a spider eating a viper snake. What? Like, the snake went into the hole and the tarantula won. What? And they'll eat fish? They eat frogs and lizards. Insects, obviously. Yeah. But they'll eat whatever they are. Carnivores. They do make it into a soup. Down it goes. Okay, so I think we've kind of laid the groundwork here. Spiders are extraordinarily fascinating. Yes, agreed. You said they're arachnids, which means that they're not actually insects. Right. And the thing that differentiates them from insects is pretty simple. They don't have a true thorax. They have a cephalophorax. Right. Which is the head and the thorax fused together, and then they have the abdomen. So spiders have two segments. Yeah. That's what makes them different. Yeah. And the segments to me seemed what they housed seemed a little backward. Like that rear segment. The abdomen, I would have thought, like, oh, that's where the stomach is and all that stuff. The stomach, the brain, the eyes and the mouth are actually in the front cephalophorax. And the abdomen is where the heart and lungs reproductive organs and digestive tract are. Right. It seems a little flip floppy to me. It's like a Ferrari where, like, the trunk is in the front and the engine is in the back. Yeah. Or a Volkswagen. Same thing. Yeah. Well, not all Volkswagens, but my old Beetle had the rear engine. Yeah. It makes them go go. Yeah. Or it's air cooled, so if it's super hot, it makes it stop. Stop. Oh, got you. Yeah. Another thing that spiders have in common is they all have eight legs. Yes. Although some of them, it looks like they have ten pairs of legs. Oh, really? No, I'm sorry. Ten legs. Five pairs of legs. And what that is actually, they have something called petty palps. Oh, yeah. Some of them are longer and look leggy. Right. So it looks like they have five pair of legs, but really it's four pair of legs and a pair of petty pouch. And these things are basically they're forearms. They're armed. Yeah. It's like a squirrel. Imagine a squirrel spider yeah. With little tiny little front arms. Yeah. Eating a nut or a mouse or a viper. What else? All spiders spin silk. Right. Yeah. But not all of them spin webs. Right, yeah. But all are capable of creating silk, which we'll talk about. Yeah. To me, that's the gold. That's just amazing. Yeah. And there are other insects that can spin silk. Like silkworm. Sure. Nothing in nature is like spider silk, though. No. It's strong, it's elastic. For example, if you are a spider and you build a web, you can trap a bumblebee, a big old bumblebee, at full speed, and your web will be able to withstand the impact. Yeah. It's a huge, massive impact. And the tensile strength of your web is going to take it like nothing. Yeah. I think I saw one thing that said it was 100 times stronger than human ligament. That's strong. Yeah. Stronger than steel, even. That's strong. But again, that's a tease. We're going to cover silk here in full. But back to the body, my friend. Spiders breathe in a very basic way, but fascinating. They have atrechia and what are called book lungs. Most of the species have both, some just have one. But it's really a different thing. What they do is air flows in through these basically splits the exoskeleton, which is the trachea, and then there's just a lot of not osmosis, but diffusion, basically. Gas exchange. Yeah. But it's not like I'm breathing in air, it's just air is being diffused in and CO2 is diffused out. Right. And the movement of the spider actually pushes air through these trachea. Yeah. It's not like a lung that breathes. And then they do have most species have both trachea and book lungs. But the book long kind of is like an extra well, it's an extra lung, it's an extra place where gas exchange takes place. And they're called book lungs because it looks like an open book that's being flopped open. So there's different leads and those leads are filled with blood, but the exterior of them become in contact with air. So that's where the gas exchange takes place. Yeah. And speaking of the blood, it's called hemolymph and it circulates two and nutrients and hormones at all. But again, in sort of a fascinating way, it has a simple heart that's just like pump in, pump out and it basically just saturates all the organs in blood. And that's where they get their oxygen. Yeah. It's not a closed system where your arm is getting blood because blood vessels are carrying blood to it. It's like your entire arm, everything beneath your skin will be full of blood. So everything in there that needs oxygen or hormones or whatever is getting them just from being bathed in this stuff. Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. It is. Brains. They've got them. Yeah, they are tiny little brains. And some spiders are smarter than others. But in general spiders, the way I read it, are sort of like little chemically signaled robots. It's just chemical signals flying all over the place that operate everything. I think the jumping spiders are the smartest one. Well, yeah, and it's puzzling science. So they have ganglia, they don't even have true brains. Nerve cells. Exactly. And they're like little nerve bundles and that's where all their impulses originate. That transfers the signals to the rest of their body. And in a jumping spider, the ganglia amounts to about 100,000 neurons, just tiny amount of brain power. And yet their vision is about on par with human vision. Well, some. The jumping spider. Oh yeah, the jumping spider. Yes. They see great. They have eight eyes with almost 360 deg vision and they can see very clearly their surroundings. But again, they're doing this with 1000 neurons. So roboticists and a lot of other smart people are looking into this to see where this efficiency is taking place. Like how you can generate that level of clarity and information from just 100,000 neurons. Yeah, they don't think they know that they like to drink human blood, jumping spiders, but from mosquitoes. And supposedly by looking at a mosquito they can tell if it has blood in it or not. Oh really? Just from vision. Wow. And I don't think they figured that out either. But they've seen clearly that every experiment they go to the mosquito with the blood. Right. Which is remarkable, jumping like 50 times their body length to pounce on whatever it is. Yeah. So imagine being a human and jumping even one time your own body length, your height. Yeah. Like a standing broad jump. Yeah. But straight up six foot one. Right. That's not going to happen. These guys can do 50 times. And they do it quick too. Super fast. Spiders are amazing. Hey, maybe that's why they called the comic The Amazing Spiderman. Oh, maybe. And it's funny, when I was reading all this stuff every 10 seconds. I was like, oh, just like spiderman. So clearly, Stanley did his research. Well, what's funny is, like, this article by old Tom Harris, old man Harris tries to like it compares spiders to humans throughout the whole thing. Yeah, it's pretty neat. Just like humans, spiders have a brain, but not really, right? Yeah. And speaking of Spider man, I guess Spidey Sense is sort of what's really going on. They do have those eyes. And while the jumping spider can see really well, most spiders, it's a secondary sense, and they use that Spidey sense. They can feel vibrations remarkably well. Feel it? Is that good vibration? So they can sense anything from a long way away and sort of know what it is, even, especially if something's in the web. So they've got hairs all over their body. Right. They also have additional hairs called trichobothria. And the rest of their body are basically, like, touching the ground. So it can sense, like, movement on the ground or vibration of the ground or in their web or something like that. But the trick ofotia hair can sense movement in the air. That's how sensitive this is. And this is how spiders really sense their environment. Yeah. And they can also taste, unlike snakes, the one that we just released and smell. So they're pretty well defined senses. And they really enjoy vision. They really enjoy the taste of mouse brains. Like, they really save for it. Mouse brain soup. Speaking of feet and legs, I had no idea this was the case. They have this adaptation, like we said, there are lots of thick hairs on the legs and at the bottom of each hair on the feet. Well, our feet, yes. So tons of hair at the end of each leg, and they have eight legs, but on the end of each hair are a bunch of feet, like you say. Yeah, little feet. And that can grip onto, like, anything. Yeah, except a bathtub. Was that a joke or something? Or is that like a well known thing about spiders that they can't walk on bathtubs? Because I don't know what that means. I think bathtubs are a place where you find spiders a lot of times because they can't get out. So you'll be like, oh, there's a spider in the bathtub. And you see just going and sliding back down. So I think that was a bit of a joke. Okay. And that's my guess. Have you ever had one come out of the faucet? The bathtub faucet? No, that's always fun. Is that the thing? I was terrified for a brief time as a kid because I went to turn on my bathwater and put my hand down and a spider came out. And so for several years afterwards, I was petrified. He didn't take baths? No. Yeah. I was just a stinky little boy. And that was last year. All right, so let's take a break. And then after that, we will talk about the molting process and a little bit about spider silk. All right? Are we at the skeleton? I think we are. Man exoskeleton. Yes. Spiders have a skeleton just like humans, except it's on the outside. Exactly. And they move using muscles. Right. But strangely, they only half move using muscles. Yeah. This was just so interesting to me. Seems like a mal adaptation. Yeah. Oh. Something they should be able to do. Yeah. But spiders are able to contract their muscles, right? Yes. So they can move their legs inward. Right. And that's how they take a step. And then to complete the step, rather than having muscles expand to move the legs outward again, they don't have those muscles for some reason. Instead, they pump hemolymph into their legs using hydraulic pressure to force them back out. So muscles, hydraulic pressure. Muscles, hydraulic pressure. It's so strange. It is really strange. But it clearly works well. It works. Sometimes a spider can suffer from dehydration, basically, to where it doesn't have enough hemolymph, which is blood again right. To pump in to create the hydraulic pressure necessary to make its legs move out. So if you ever see a spider on its back with its legs all curved inward yeah. That's a dehydrated spider right there. Yeah. Handsome gatorade. It may not be dead yet, basically. Right. And he'll tell you, too, not dead yet. Just poke it and then give him a drink and send them along his way. Yeah. The exoskeleton itself is made of cuticle, and it's basically proteins like chitin and sugars, like polysaccharides. And they're just stretched out and layered upon each other to make it super strong. Right. It's like a really strong shell. It is for protection, obviously. The problem is that shell, once it's hardened, it doesn't keep growing, although the spider does. Yeah. So, much like snakes and lots of other animals, spiders have adapted or evolved to molt to get rid of their old exoskeleton. Yeah. And a bunch of hormones trigger this when it's time to start growing. Sure. The spider will, I think, just like a snake, start to absorb some of the inner layer of the exoskeleton. Right. And it becomes a little liquefied, and they create this fluid barrier between the old exoskeleton and the new exoskeleton that they're growing. Yeah. Just like a little gap, basically. A liquid gap. Right? Exactly. And as the new exoskeleton starts to get grow a little more and a little more, eventually it absorbs that fluid. And then now there's like a gap, a real gap, in between the skeleton and the new one. Yeah. And then it's basically trapped inside this old skeleton and does a little Incredible Hulk move where it pumps that blood again, the hemolymp, and expands the cephalophorax, and it just, like, busts out of it and then just keeps wriggling around until it's completely out of it. But pants never fully rip off. That always bugged me. It's just so unlikely that a guy in like, 32 ways can become this ten foot giant. Right. Just as, like, lower calves and ankles were big enough to rip his pants into tatters down there. What about the waist and the thighs? No. Hulk should be naked. Technically. Yes. And again, Stanley really studied spider, so you'd think he would know that about the Hulk's pants, but no. All right, so after they have molted, this is when they do most of their growing, because their new exoskeleton is not quite fully hard yet. It can expand a little bit at this point. Yeah. But they're super vulnerable because it's not as hard at that point as well. Right. So they'll just kind of go off and be like, leave me alone, leave me alone. I know I'm the apex predator, but I've made a lot of enemies along the way. A lot. They are looking for me right now. So Chuck, we can't really put it off any longer, and I don't know why we would. Trying to get silky. Yes. We're going to talk about spider silk. It's amazing. We talked already a little bit about its tensile strength, stronger than steel or kevlar. And here's the neat thing, is that it's actually a liquid when it comes out until you start stretching it, and then it becomes a solid. Right. It's extruded from spigots. And the spiders spinnerets, right? Yeah. So the spinnerets are these little pairs of almost like arms or whatever that the spiders like, just kind of pulling the silk out. Yeah. As the silk. The silk, which is made up of amino acids in, like, a water solution, like you said, when it's extruded, the spider can do all sorts of different things with this. And depending on how much pressure it applies at the spigot or whatever, it can be a really thin strand, it can be a thicker strand, it can be short, long, it can be a thin strand encased in a thicker strand. Yes. They can do all sorts of really neat stuff with their silk. So much so that researchers still aren't 100% sure what the heck is going on here. But they just know that the spiders can do tons of different stuff with just the silk proteins alone and the exclusion once they come out. The spider can weave these things together to create even stronger thread. And again, this is stuff that apparently it's several times stronger weight for weight than steel and kevlar. So it's five times as strong as an equal mass of steel and twice as strong as an equal mass of kevlar. And remember with the bulletproof vest episode, we talked about using goat's milk to produce spider silk? Yeah. They're doing it. Yeah, they definitely are. They're not using it for they haven't applied it yet. But they do have goat farms. They basically found the genetic code specifically that creates the dragon and the drag line that's sort of the most common silk that it will spin. It's like a line. It's like a mountain climbers rope they'll leave behind them. Right. And in case it needs to retreat quickly, it'll have a little rope to pull itself along. Right. So that's the drag line. Yeah. So they isolated the genetic code for this drag line, put that in a goat embryo implanted in a mama goat, and the goat came out like, why? They don't even know. That's the beauty of it. They milk the goat and then from that point, it's a little bit like making cheese. From what I saw, they skim the fat off and it's like separating curds from whey. And then potentially we could have, like, ligament replacement with spider silk. Yeah. They're looking to regrow human hearts with this stuff. Crazy, dude. Can you imagine having a new heart grown from spider silk made from goat's milk pumping in your chest? It's pretty neat. Yes. I think I tell people about that. Let me tell you about my new heart. Yeah, exactly. It has to do with fighters, goats and my poor diet. A lot of steak, which is not true. What do you mean? Mistake is not bad for you. Oh, right. Medical myth. Is that the deal? Yeah, fats and stuff like that. They think that the silklands originally started out as just ways to mark territory, like a scent gland. And then they realize I'm actually can leave a substance behind that's super strong, as it turns out. Super strong. And again, also, pound for pound, it's as flexible as rubber. Really? Natural rubber. Yeah. So it's pretty amazing stuff. And again, the spider can do all sorts of different things with it. One of the things you said is create the drag line, which is like a trail of breadcrumbs for an emergency. That's the most common use of spider silk, I believe, across species. Right. Just like I'm going to go 15ft that way and I'm going to leave my little drag line behind. Right. In case I need to hightail it out of there. Yes. They also have other glands that can produce substances to put onto the spider silk, like sticky stuff, which is very useful in creating webs for water resistant materials, basically. Like spraying it with what's the stuff for Gore Tex. You spray Scotchgard. Yeah, exactly. Female spiders, they'll make protective cocoons. Sometimes if you're in your basement and you see a big look like a cotton ball full of eggs, that's a spider sack. Yeah. So cocoon they've woven to help out their little guys and gals survive. And then did you see the net caster? No. I ran across in this article, but I haven't seen one. Yeah, you can just Google on YouTube or whatever, net casting spider. And it's basically like a little fishing net that they'll weave between, hold it between their legs like a sheet, and then something walks by and they just throw it over their head real quick and wrap them up in it. You can throw it in the van and drive off, basically. So probably the most famous and I can't believe I even just said probably, but the most famous use of spider silk in nature is spider webs. Yeah. The most amazing thing you will see is an orb weaved web, right? Orb weaved is the good one. It's the geometric looking. They clearly care about it. There are plenty of other spiders that really don't care what their webs look like. Job webs. There you go. Right? Yeah. They drink out of mugs and say, like, I hate Mondays and stuff. They just don't care about their wet. Like, black widows actually make terrible, stupid webs. Oh, do they? Yeah, and you would think, like, they're sleek, they're vicious, they have a cool symbol. Yeah. But they don't care what their web looks like. And what are you going to do? I'll bite you. Yeah, that's what they say. Or I'll mate with you and kill you. Right. Either way, you're getting bit. Have you ever seen you see a lot of them in your apartment or house? No. What are you implying? Huh? No. Well, I mean well, you don't have a basement. No. See, I go in my basement. Dude, they're everywhere, man. It's creepy. It is creepy because they are brown reclusive, which we'll talk about, too. They're very reclusive, hence the name for the brown recluse. But black widows are the same. They don't want to have anything to do with you. And when you come near them, they want to get away from you. So having them in your house is not really much of an issue for you. No, it is for the insects in your house, but for you, it doesn't really matter. But just seeing them and just knowing that, it just makes you kind of shudder. Right. Well, that shiny red hourglass is just like creepy looking. They look really deadly. Yeah. And I have an unfinished basement, so there are spiders everywhere in my basement. Yeah, dude, everywhere. Is it like the Baltimore wastewater treatment plant down there? It almost is. Like, I won't reach into any darkened area of my basement to get a tool or something. That's probably smart because they would want to get away from your arm. But if you really scare them or something and they feel threatened, they'll come at you. It's not like they won't bite you. So I think that's very good. Chuck. I'm going to get you shoulder length leather gloves for Christmas. I've got some. Do you? Yet? Not for that, but sure. You should wear them when you go to reach something. Well, I worry about my animals sometimes, but I read that spider venom and we're jumping ahead a little bit, but it's not harmful to animals. Like, the most deadly spider in the world is the Sydney funnel weaver funnel web in Australia. Of course. Yeah. Sydney and I saw a video of a cat, like, playing with one, and it said, for some reason, it doesn't affect any mammal but humans. That is really weird. And they have no idea why. Because humans came along way after spiders did. Yeah. So no one can figure that part out. That is really odd. Yeah. I don't think you have to worry about your pets with spider bites. That's a good PSA right thing. All right, so we're back at the web. I would advise everyone at some point, I'd like you to follow along if you're at home, but go to the house supports article on spiders. That little graphic is so helpful. The flash animation. Yeah. And it works not on Android devices, but it just go to your desktop. Desktop version of the site has the little flash where you just click next and it shows you exactly what it takes to build a spider web. Yeah, but we'll talk you through it here. The first thing that happens is the spider gets up on someplace high up, like a tree branch, and fires that one. It's called a bridge. That one starting point down and just hope the wind attaches it to something else below it. And if it attaches, then it cinches it up really tight. And he's like, I've got this sort of like the foundation that's the baseline. The baseline, yeah. Very nice. And the spider crawls across that baseline, which I think it's a bridge is what it's called. But I like baseline. All right. It crawls across the baseline. As it does, it releases another line of silk that's much looser. Yeah, it sort of dangles below it, and it attaches it at each end where the baseline is attached to those two branches, too. Right? Yes. And like you said, it dangles below it forming is kind of a lazy V. And the spider crawls down to the lowest point of that V and then drops another line from that point down to, say, another anchor point. So that forms like a tighter Y. Yeah, it sort of looks like an upside down coat hanger if the hook was straightened out. Exactly. Or A-Y-A-Y with a line crossing the two points at top. Exactly. So now it's got this. And again, it tightens everything up along the way if everything is going as planned. And then it has to lay out frame threads. And this is when it starts going in, I guess, a circle. But a circle made up of straight lines. Yeah. I want to say octagon, but it's more than eight sides. It's a polygon. Is it? Yeah, there's more than one gon. So it's a polygon. Oh, I thought PolyMet. Five. No, I don't think so. Hecticon Pentagon. Pentagon. Is that five? I think so. Man, oh, man. You didn't get killed. But several Rhombus is put together. All right, let's go with that. So there's a structure now. There's like the outer structure, there's an inner structure, and the thing is getting stronger and stronger. And the spider will create it will start at the middle and basically create like a circular like a nautilus motion. Yeah, exactly. Laying silk all around. Most people think of spider webs as fairly sticky. It is not sticky at this point, and for one very good reason. The spider has to move along it. So it hasn't laid down any sticky silk yet. Right. But once it creates this circular pattern and knows where it's going to go, it goes back around it and eats the old stuff while it lays down a sticky silk in its place. Yes, it's a spiral. We keep saying circle. I think spiral makes a little more sense. That's the word. So, yeah, like you said, it'll eat the previous one, lay down the sticky one, but it also still has an auxiliary spiral to get around on. It just knows where to walk, basically. Like, I'm not going to walk on the sticky one. I'm going to walk on the other one. Right. It's pretty amazing in itself. Yeah. And then it's web is created. And that's again, it's called an orb web. A lot of spiders, and it's mostly from garden spiders that create orb website in an elevated area. Beautiful. Charlotte must have been a garden spider. Clearly an orb web that they definitely have more than 100,000 neurons because it could spell. Yeah. We had a big garden spider we've won last year on our side deck attaching to our house. And it was in a great place that the dogs wouldn't hit it and we wouldn't hit it. And we would just go out every day and check it out and see how it was doing. How was it doing? Great. Lots of flies and stuff like that. It was fattening up. Well, they're not there for long. Yeah. So generally they'll hang out in the middle of that web, wait for the vibrations. And as we said, they can even tell the difference between a wasp getting caught, which is not so great sometimes, or butterfly, let's say. Right. And which they want to eat. They love butterfly. Yeah. Delicious butterfly. Tastes like frog legs to them. Some other spiders will be like, I'm not waiting in the middle of this web. It's raining out. I'm going to go hang out in my nest. And they'll leave like a drag line that in this case is considered a signal line, and it's just attached to the web. So they're looking for signals, like vibrations from the web. Yeah. It's like being the laziest fisherman, the one that just throws out the thing with the bobber and then just starts drinking beer and reading their outdoor Reader's Digest. Reader's Digest. And then when they feel something, they're like, oh, man, I'm fishing. Exactly. Yeah. It's that kind of spider. Here's the other neat thing. When a web is no longer useful. Many times the spider will eat it and recycle that silk. Yes, which is amazing. It breaks down the proteins and it uses it again later. Yeah, little recyclers. Pretty smart things. All right, well, let's take our final break here, and then we will talk about some other hunting methods that spiders use right after this. All right, so we're back and we're talking about other hunting methods. As I said, this great documentary I watched said that spiders are some of maybe the best, most efficient, fully realized predator on the planet. Dude. As well as a shark. Very good. As a shark. Spider would kill a shark in a second if he's the size of a shark, you might oh, definitely. Move out. And by the way, we did our little PSA with snakes. You shouldn't kill spiders either. No, I mean, like, you want to leave them around because they're, like, taking care of a lot of pests that you don't want. I talked about mosquitoes. I hate mosquitoes. Who doesn't? I'll kill a mosquito. So a spider will eat a mosquito in a second. It's like frog legs to them. Again, nothing but frog legs. So let's talk about some of the other ways that spiders can hunt. Some have venom, like, they're waiting a little trapdoor that they've made, a little hole in the ground. They build a little web door on a hinge. Yeah, like a tiger pit. And they'll jump out. And you can see video of this online, too. Or they'll let you fall into the hole and then they're on you like that snake. Yeah. This tarantula ate a viper. Man. That's crazy. And when I say ate it, it's not like a snake eat something and it's just not there anymore. It sucked out whatever it could eat from the snake. Crazy. After paralyzing it, it's venom, which is where we are. Wolf spiders. Yes. They're landspider. They don't hunt with the web. They stalk their prey, which is terrifying. Yeah. Jumping spiders do that, too. Yeah, the difference. So jumping spiders stalk their prey kind of like a cat, but when a cat is ready, they pounce. It will pounce and run. A jumping spider just pounces and it lands to work. Yes. And your toes. Yeah. Bad news. You ever seen the wolf spider when it has all the babies on its back? No. Jump off and run around. That's something that I think is worth mentioning here. Yeah, it's terrifying. So you said a lot of spiders will create, like, a cocoon for their spiderlings with silk, and a lot of spider species will just like, there you go, kids. You have a good life. Sure. And the spider mom goes off. Wolf spiders carry their cocoons around with them. And then, like you're saying, even after the spiderlings hatch, the spiderlings just hit you ride on the back of their mom for a while until they're old enough to start taking care of themselves, and then they spread out, which is really unusual for spiders as far as reproduction goes. Yeah, it's crazy looking. I've seen wolf spiders that maybe it was a noise that frightened them or something, but all of a sudden, they're sentenced. Did you see that vine that that dude posted from Mexico in the beginning of 2014 and became really famous? It looks like a little toupee on, like, a blue plastic bin. I don't like where this is going. And he goes up and pokes it, and all of a sudden, the two pages turns into about 100 spiders. But it's actually spiders. They're harvest men like Daddy Longlegs. Daddy Longlegs aren't actually spiders. They're arachnids. Oh, is that the deal? Yeah. Okay. And one of the things that differentiates them is this packing clumping instinct. It looks like just this bad two pages sitting there, but it's really a bunch of spiders or a bunch of harvest, not a good toupee. And what no, terrible to pay. And what they're doing is they're maintaining moisture in, like, a hot, dry environment by clumping together and kind of pooling their moisture. And then as the sun goes down, they'll spread out again. But if you go up and touch them, like this guy did on vine, so it's just like this nine second loop over and over again. They just separate and scatter everywhere. Pretty neat. Have you done a don't be dumb on the Granddaddy Long leg supposedly being the most poisonous? I looked into it. Or venomous. No, I kind of ran into a brick wall because it's like an old wives tail. So this is what I found. Yes, that the old wives tale is that they are the most poisonous around, but their mouths are too small to puncture human skin. Yeah, that's fine. But if they could, they could kill you. Yeah, I don't believe that. So if it's a harvest men and apparently there's a bunch of different arachnids that are called Granddaddy Long legs, but if it's the harvest men and it's completely false, because not only do they not have venom, they don't even have fangs because they couldn't bite you. But another caveat to that is that although they can survive if they lose a leg, and this is an adaptation to where, like, if a predator has their leg, they'll just pull it off themselves and run off, and the guy's like, oh, man. They can't regrow their leg. Yes, they can survive without them. They can't regrow them. Okay, so they'll have just, whatever, seven legs. Yes. So you don't want to pull the legs off a Granddaddy Long legs because it's not growing back, kids. Yeah. It's not cool to do to torture insects. Don't listen to Ricky or Billy or Tommy or whoever is telling you that their legs are going to grow back. No, they're going nowhere. Nowhere. All right, so we were talking about venom. Most spiders have pretty much the same procedure when killing prey. The weapon is a pair of jointed jaws called Calorice ray. I think you're going to go with that. I'm going going with chelliseri. All right. Chellaserrycerilla. Man. Some people like this stuff. Some people think it's, some people are like, that's it, I'm done with these guys forever. But each part of this jaw has two parts, the basal segment, which is the bulk of it, and then these fangs. And just like snakes, these fangs act as little needles and they have a venom duct that they'll squeeze the venom through the fang. Right. Just like a snake. Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. And the venom is very frequently a neurotoxin, so it paralyzes the prey like a snake in many cases. And then things get really funky with the spider after that point. So it's taken down a mouse, it's paralyzed it. The mouse is like, oh, God, I'm locked in. I can experience everything, but I can't move. And this is horrible because now I'm being killed by a spider. It's like the anesthesia awareness. Exactly. But even worse than that. But there's not a doctor, it's a spider. You're being operated on by a spider. Yeah. And the spider is now injecting you now that you're paralyzed. Now it's injecting you with digestive enzymes and you will be liquefied from the inside out. Yeah. Because like we said, spiders eat nothing but soup, essentially, their entire life. But the soup that they eat doesn't start out as a soup. Instead, it starts out as muscle and tissue and all that kind of stuff inside a mouse. And then once it liquefies, the spider will suck all that stuff out and then that's the food. And it tastes like frog legs to it. The actual fangs themselves can work a couple of different ways. In the case of a tarantulas, it works like an axe. The fang swing down, and Irannymorphs, which are the most dominant suborder, they act as little pinchers, which is better. Yeah. Because I think the tarantulas need to actually pin something against something to swing those little fang axes down. Yeah. Whereas if you're in Iranian, morph, like your pinchers are just using the pressure created by the other pincher to puncture your prey. So what does this mean for us, dude? You get bit by a spider, a venomous spider. Are you going to die? No. The chances are pretty high that you're not going to die. As an adult, healthy adult human. Yeah. I think across the entire world, the morbidity rate of a spider bite is like 10%. But even for ones that we think are so deadly, like the brown reckless spider right. Morbidity rates were at 5% before we discovered an event. Right. So I'm not going to feel good. No. And there's actually some nasty videos on YouTube. There's a guy, the worst one, he basically created a video diary of him just filming his foot with a brown recluse bite and just talking about how nasty it is. And he stopped because he thought no one wanted to see it. And everybody's like, Where's more videos? What's going on now? So he started posting them all the time. But I think it says, brown recluse spider bite. Disturbing video. After three months, put those words into YouTube and it will bring up this dude's foot, and it looks like a giant Cabbage Patch Kid. And have you ever seen Requiem for a Dream? Oh, yeah. You remember the end where he's got that chippy mess that on the top of a Cabbage Patch Kid's foot and people wanted more. Yeah. Which proves my theory that the Internet is thunderdome. But this guy is like, it's so gross. You could easily fit two fingers into this spider bite. And the reason why is because this guy suffered necrosis, which is a side effect of the brown reclusive toxins. And if untreated, you're probably again, you're not going to die. It's going to hurt like crazy. He was going to a doctor through all this, though, right? Yeah, he had to. Okay. You'd have to be just totally psychotic to have your foot look like this and not go seek medical attention. I think it's looking better today. It's Thursday. Yeah, but you can suffer severe, like, scarring and tissue damage. You're probably not going to die. But it hurts because they affect our ion channels, right? Yeah. Kristen Connor, I think he wrote a great site article about how deadly spiders work, on how stuff works. For instance, the Sydney funnel web venom, it's a delta atrocotoxin, and it is an amino acid chain that causes damage to nerve cells. Yeah. It makes our nerve cells like fire constantly. I think some toxins, when they affect our nerve cells, it just makes them fire over and over and over again, which affects their performance. It's not what you want. And as far as nociceptor cells, you are just experiencing tremendous amounts of pain. Right. Or before 1980, when they discovered the funnel web antivenon, you could die from it. But since then, they say no one has died from it now. And the funnel web, this is the one that's routinely pointed out as the world's deadliest spider. Although Kristen points out there's no real scientific consensus on that because there's not that many spiders that really even have a chance to be considered deadly to humans. Yeah. But the Sydney funnel web, which lives in the 99 miles radius around Sydney, Australia yeah, right, in the city. Right. I guess if you really pressed science, almost said scientologist, if you press a spider researcher, they would probably say the Sydney funnel web. And one of the reasons why is because it fangs. Its pincers can pierce a human toenail. Yes. That's frightening. And they're aggressive, right? Like, if you want to get out of here, they may not get out of there. They may say, oh, yeah, I'm coming. Yeah. They, like, eat a can of spinach and come at you. Scary. I think there's one in Brazil, too, called the wandering spider. Brazilian wandering. And it has been cited as the deadliest as well, because it can inject up to two milligrams of venom, which is just a lot of venom for a spider. Yeah, it is. So it is a hunting spider as well, and it is also aggressive. So I'm glad that most venomous are the most aggressive. Yeah. Fun how that works out. So how do we get spiders, Chuck? Where do they come from? Well, they have sex. Yes, they do. Spider sex is pretty fascinating. Not as interesting as snake sex. Maybe it is. I don't know. I don't think so. Let's talk about it. Okay. So we said that spiders are almost exclusively solitary hunters. Yeah. They don't hang out with their families. So if you're a male and you're like, I got to reproduce, I got to pass these genes along, you are going to seek out a female spider, but it's not the easiest thing in the world to do. Yeah. Not only do you have to find a female spider, you have to find one of reproductive age and ready to reproduce. Yeah. And not eat you. That's a big point. But in the case of the black widow, you're going to get eaten anyway. Yeah. But females are way bigger than the males, which is one way that males get eaten. Yeah. I saw a video of the black widows mating, and it looked like a little baby spider trying to mate with a big, big spider. But it's just a male and a female. Yeah. So the female, when it decides, all right, I guess I have to do this, I have to be defiled. I'm going to lay down a dragline, sort of like a snake does, covered in pheromones. Wherever I go, I'm just going to leave this scented trail behind me on this drag line. Or if it's a web based spider, they may lay pheromones over the web right. And just let the wind do its work. Yeah. Either way, these spiders are going to pick up on this and be like, okay, I'm heading that direction. Yeah. I'm going to follow this drag line. I was going to pull my little self down this drag line, and finally I get to the female. Although we should point out another creepy thing that spiders will do is they're so desperate to mate that they'll hang around females that are too young until they get to the right age. Like, they'll hang around the playground and it's so creepy and predatory. Right. They'll be like, oh, she's close. Let me wait a few weeks. Yeah. They're like, I don't feel like searching. Yeah, I'm just going to wait. So when they find the female, that's just step one. Step two is convincing her that you're not dinner right. And that you're not trying to encroach in your territory. Right? You're like, I just want to mate. Right. And there's some different ways that spiders do this with the jumping spider. In species that have good vision, they may do a little dance, like a little love. Look at me over here. Yeah, well, spiders will do that, and then spiders, again, that are web based, the mail may come up and play a little tune on the web yeah, like plucking a guitar string. Exactly. For the female to be like, oh, I see what you're after. He's like, Is that Jose Feliciano? I'm such a sucker for Jose Feliciano. So once they have convinced the female spider that they are there to have some fun, they're not food. They're not a threat. They like the tune of my guitar or the way I dance. There's a lot of work that goes into it. Sure. The female finally, is like, all right, well, let me just get into position here and send you the right signal that I'm ready to go and might shake my web or something if I don't like you, or I might just crawl away, but otherwise, here I am. Let's do this. Right. And so, like any other animal on the planet, they copulate by putting their reproductive organs together, right? No, they don't couple. What? You're being quiet. They don't couple like snakes even do. The mail deposits sperm onto a little web and then picks it up. It's basically like IVF. Yes. But with pedophiles, the little forearms that the spider has. Yeah. He deposits that sperm onto the gentle opening of the female. Right. And I guess the female stores it there near the ovaries. Yeah. She's like smell you later. Yeah, pretty. If he's lucky. If he's not lucky, she turns around and eats him afterwards. Right. Which the male spider is fine with because all it wants to do is reproduce. But then at some point later on, the female will be like, oh, yeah, that's right. I've got that sperm stored away. I'll fertilize these eggs. Sure. And there you have it. Yeah. And then they play, like I said, either hundreds or thousands of eggs in one go, and they may encase them, like we said. They may carry them around. They may abandon the eggs entirely and just say good luck. What's crazy to me, spiders, they live month up to years. Apparently. Tarantulas can live up to 20 years. Yeah, like a pet tarantula. But one thing I found was that a lot of spiders can go up to a year between feeding. Oh, wow. Yeah. Between feeding. Yeah. Crazy. Isn't that surprising? Yeah. Spiders. Fascinating. Yeah. And as I said in the snakes one, I don't kill spiders, but nothing would terrify me more than a tarantula crawling up my arm. And that's funny, too, because tarantulas are not poisonous to humans. You can have an allergic reaction to a tarantula, but in most people who are allergic to tarantulas. You're allergic to their hair. So crawling on you would create maybe like a skin rash or something. The venom is probably not going to do much more than you might not even have a reaction to it. You could feel pain from their fangs puncturing your skin. Just like if I took, like, a sewing needle and puncture your skin to be that same kind of sensation. I think it more just be being freaked out that a tarantula is attacking you would be the biggest setback from being attacked by a tarantula. Yeah, I wouldn't even need to be attacked. Just you see movies where actors have to do that or let one call over their face or something. There's no way. No way. No. Could never, ever, ever do it. I have a great yummy story. When she was a kid, she was at one of the Smithsonians or whatever, and they brought in, like a thing full of tarantulas and set them down. I think they actually dumped them in the center of the kids or whatever. You got up and started ran out of the room, she was gone, and her teacher had to run after her to catch her again. She's like, yeah, you guys are idiots for sitting here. I mean, I'm definitely an arachnophobe. Oh, are you, like, dying? The wool really genuine to a certain degree. When I see a spider, I don't run away screaming, but if it's proximity, if one was on me, I would not enjoy that experience of any size. I'm a bit of an arachnophobe. Got you. What about you? You don't care. It's more like when I can see the features and everything that I'm really like. Those are freaky creatures. Yeah, but I loved my garden orb weaver. I wasn't like some of them are just beautiful. Like, the ones are, like, bright yellow and black. Yes, there's a lot of really fascinating spiders, but no, I don't want to be the focus of one's attention, I guess, is what it comes down to. Yeah. Like when I'm hiking through the woods and your face walks through a spider web. Yeah. I did not react well. Like a little girl. What about the movie arachnophobia? Do you like that one? Yeah, it was good for its time, I think. I think so, too. Yeah, I'll sign off on that one. Was it Bill Pullman? Was he in that? Or Jeff Daniels? Which one? I think it was Jeff Daniels. Yeah. And John Goodman. No, was he not? Yeah, he was the exterminator. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Good flick. So that's spiders, everybody, if you want to know more about them. Oh, Chuck, we didn't talk about the diving spider. One of the most fascinating spiders of all. We got to put that in. Yeah, it segues with our Diving Bell episode because they basically weave a little ceiling of spider web at the surface of the water. No, underneath the water. Oh, is it underneath a little bit? Totally. Okay, so they'll weave a little, like, ceiling, like a little parachute, and then they'll take air bubbles under there one by one until it's a little diving belt. Right. And these spiders breathe like any other spider above land, but they live underwater almost all of their life in this little pocket of air that it builds for itself. And those are the ones that will eat fish. Man, that's crazy. Awesome. Yeah. There's all kinds of great documentaries online about spiders. They all, unfortunately, are sort of salacious with the music and all this stuff. It's fascinating. I think if you want to know more about spiders, you can type those words or, well, that word into the search bar@housetoforks.com. And you can also go check out the podcast page on stuff you should know.com for this episode. It's got links, so most of the stuff we've talked about. And since I said search bar somewhere, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this dog blood donation. Remember in our blood types episode, I was surprised to know that animals could donate blood as well, even though it makes perfect sense. This is from Kara or Cara. Hey, guys. I've been listening for about four years, and you guys keep me company on my long commute, and when I have to drive the tractor one year ago, we got a call from some acquaintances of ours asking how much our dog weighed. We didn't know them super well, but being open minded, we said \u00a356. And they asked if we would be willing to let our dog be a blood donor for their dog because their area was out of dog blood. Their dog had been battling an acute autoimmune issue for several days and needed a dog over \u00a350 to be a donor to get just through the night. Being animal lovers and knowing my dog was healthy and fit, I didn't hesitate. So we brought Hatchet in, and they did a quick test to see if the bloods were compatible, which was basically swirling them together. They were a match, and we proceeded with the transfusion. We didn't get to watch the process, but Hatch came out about an hour later, a little drowsy, but still his regular self. What did you guys just do to me exactly? He was a little lazy the next day or two, but made a fine recovery. And the other dog ended up making a full recovery. Oh, that's sweet. Despite a bleak diagnosis, if you have a dog, I suggest finding friends with dogs, \u00a350 or more who would be willing to be blood donors in case of an emergency. Dog blood is often scarce, so thanks, guys. You've made me a champ at the trivia table. That is Kara in Lexington, Kentucky. Thanks a lot, Kara. That's a great PSA. Yeah. And she sent a little picture of Hatchet, and Hatchet looks like a fine dog. It was great. If you want to let us know how your dog saved a life, you can tweet to us at xyskpodcast. You can join us on Facebook.com, you can send us an email to stuff podcastworks.com, and you can hang out with us at our home on the web stuffyshow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstofworks.com. Hey everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime four days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, it's Amazon Music. You can access new episodes early. Download the app today." | ||
e63dab0e-5c76-11e9-8c4e-1f2b77376988 | SYSK Selects: How Yo-Yos Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/sysk-selects-how-yo-yos-work | You may have played with a yo-yo before -- perhaps you've even walked the dog -- but do you know about the physics behind what makes a yo-yo sleep and wake up? Learn all about inertia, angular momentum and the history of the yo-yo in this episode of SYSK. | You may have played with a yo-yo before -- perhaps you've even walked the dog -- but do you know about the physics behind what makes a yo-yo sleep and wake up? Learn all about inertia, angular momentum and the history of the yo-yo in this episode of SYSK. | Sat, 13 Apr 2019 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2019, tm_mon=4, tm_mday=13, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=103, tm_isdst=0) | 30721334 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, everybody. If you want a great website, you want to do it yourself with no must, no fuss. Turn to Squarespace. They have everything to sell anything. They have the tools that you need to get your business off the ground, including ecommerce templates, inventory management, simple checkout process, process, and secure payments. And if you're into analytics, hold on to your hats, because Squarespace has everything that you need. Just head to squarespace. Comsysk and you can get a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code SYSK to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. What if you were a major transit system with billions of passengers taking millions of trips every year? You weren't about to let any cyber attacks slow you down. So you partner with IBM to build a security architecture to keep your data network and applications protected. Now you can tackle threats so they don't bring you to a grinding halt, and everyone's going places, including you. Let's create cybersecurity that keeps your business on track. IBM, let's create learn more@ibm.com. Hey there, everybody. It's your old friend Josh. And for this week's, SYSK selects I've chosen the episode on Yoyos, which is great. It's like a trip around the world on the end of a string that draws you right back home at the end, which makes it great. So please enjoy. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. It's charles W. Chuck Bryant. That's me. Same as ever. Scratching the old back. Yeah, just got a little itch there. Do you ever use one of those little dealies, the little creepy hand, the little monkey paw on the end of the stick? I have before. Yeah, I don't like to do that. It hurts. I guess you could call it a painful sensation. I get up against the wall sometimes and do the balloon the bear. That I'll do sometimes, too. But it's weird. Like, I only have baggage in about the same place, and that would be on my left shoulder blade on the western side of it, depending on which direction I'm facing. Curiously, this is going to be the most interesting part of this show. That is not true, chuck man. So, Chuck yes. This is going to be a great one. Okay. I have a feeling this can be one of those ones where it's like, wow, that turned out to be really good. It's physics. Heavy out the Yinya. Yeah, everyone loves that. But the fact is, when we finish this, you're going to know how Yoyo works. This is probably the most truly truest titled episode we've ever done. You think? Yes. I don't know. All right, well, we'll find out. I think it should be called physics through the Eye of a Yoyo. So, listen, have you ever seen the movie Harlem Knights? Parts. Dude, go back and watch it again. Oh, you're crazy. It's one of the best movies ever. Eddie Murphy red Fox richard Pryor. Great cast. And like, everybody else in it too, I think. Bernie Max in there. Awesome cast, terrible script. I don't think the script is terrible. I thought it was great. There was one thing about that movie that bugged me to know it. It's set in, like, the yeah. And throughout the movie, Eddie Murphy uses the word yo. Yo is obviously a modern term and it just sticks out like a sore thumb every time he does it. Drives me crazy. Like, it drives me crazy that he did it. Drives me crazy that the director wasn't like, you can't say Yo. This is like 1920s New York. Yo wasn't around. I don't know that they were going for historical accuracy in that one. They were wearing spats. Yeah, well, Jerry like that one. So I went back and did a little digging, Chuck, and it turns out that yo was, in fact around in the 1920s. But Eddie Murphy was still wrong for using it in that capacity. Okay. Okay. So Yo goes back at least to, like, the 15th century as, like, a hunting cry, right? When somebody's like, somebody else might go, Yo. And you go chase Fox. That was kind of the first wave of Yo as far back as 1859. We know that there were sailors that were using it. Yo ho. Yo ho ho. Or also, it was a response for roll call. Like, Yo, like, somebody called your name, you would say Yo a key. It wasn't until after World War II, though, that the modern incarnation comes and it came out of the Italian quarters of Philadelphia. So that's where they think yo came from after World War II. Hence, Eddie Murphy was wrong in using yo especially frequently in the movie Harlem Nights. So I did all that research or I could have just looked into Google Translate from English to Filipino or vice versa okay. And find that it just means come. Yeah, but I don't think that's what it means here, does it? It does now. Okay, so the word yoyo, as it stands right, means come. Come or come back. Yeah, that makes sense. Did you know that? I did. You want to talk a little bit about the history of yoyo? Did you know before reading this fantastic article that yoyos originated, as we understand them now, originated in the Philippines in the 1920s? I didn't know that. I did know that. It was around for a long time before that, though. In other forms. Well, pretty much the same form. There were, like, two forms of yoyos in history and one came out of the new one came out of the Philippines. The other one is pretty old. Well, ancient Chinese or at least ancient Greeks more than 2500 years ago. But they think the Chinese had something similar to that. Yeah, I'm starting to strongly suspect that the Chinese are the origin of human civilization. Yeah, they came up with beer. Well, they came up with beer. There you have it. They went right there. And it is the oldest toy on the planet. Except the doll. The dolly. I thought that was pretty interesting, too. Yeah, of course. Although I wonder if they're kind of diminishing any kind of ancient rituals or rights by saying, look at this cute doll, when really it's some sort of fetish. I don't know. You never know. So it's been around a long time. They've designed it in different ways over the years. The original design had the string tied tight to the little axis there. We'll call it the Greek design. The Greek design? No, we'll call it the Chinese design or the European design. Well, not design, but it was popular in Europe. Yeah. And that obviously if you ever used an old yoyo like that or redesign yours to where it's tied around the axle, it'll pop up. As soon as you throw it down, it will pop back up because it's tied to the axle. Exactly. Right. And you said it was popular in Europe. There were other words for other names for the yoyo before it was a yoyo. That's right. There was the lemongret, the bandalor. The bandalor is British, I believe. The quiz. Yeah. I didn't get a country of origin for that, but it was very popular in Europe. There's a painting of, I think, louie the 18th. Is he the boy king? I don't know. Whichever. Louis was the boy king of him holding like, a yoyo. Like a royal painting of him with a yoyo, or what was the little hoop on in a stick? I think that's what it was called. That was an awesome game, the hoop on a stick. And then I don't think you can compare the yoyo to the hoop on a stick. No, I'm not comparing it. I'm just saying. I just never got that toy. Okay, well, here's another one for you. Napoleon was well known for carrying and using a yoyo, apparently for stress relief. Yeah. Didn't work too well. He was a stressed out dude. Yeah, he needed the but as you said, that's the European favorite or Chinese design, where, like, the strings tied really tight to the axle, and it just basically goes up and down. Yeah. Right. So the filipino design led to the modern yoyo, as we understand it now. And the huge distinction is that the string is just looped around the axle kind of loosely, which has the added benefit of allowing the yoyo itself to spin once it reaches the end of the string. Yeah. Sleep. That's why people yoyo. I think it's all about the tricks. I mean, it's sort of fun for a minute just to go up and down, but it's really all about the tricks. Right. It's just a stress reliever if it just goes up and down. Did you yoyo when you were a kid? Yeah. Here or there. But even as a kid, like, I could sense that these new modern ones that we'll talk about with ball bearings and clutches, they just seem like cheating. I agree. Let's not even talk about them. It's not even a real yoyo. Chuck, you want to talk about a little bit about physics? Well, let's finish the history first, shall we? Okay. Well, I have plenty of that. Originally in the Philippines, they think it was a hunting weapon for, like, 400 years, but not like a little tiny yoyo. They were really big, and it was basically a big spindle attached to a rope with spikes coming off of it. They were like, the size of a Hugo. Yeah. And I guess the benefit there is that you could get it back after you threw it at somebody. Right. The string was almost just useless, though. Well, you just throw it and run after it. Oh, really? Okay. It was actually heavy rope. And they used it for hunting, too, right. Well, at some point down the line, well, yeah, you would think anything used in hunting does double duty and warrant exactly. Anything you're trying to kill. Yeah. At some point, though, they became smaller and became toys. And in. The Filipino immigrant to the US. Named Pedro Flores started a company, the first modern yoyo company in the United States, and did pretty well for himself. And then in 1929, he sold out to a man named Duncan. Right. Donald Duncan. Yes. Donald duncan or Duncan properly. And Florence is in Santa Barbara, and, like you said, was selling these things, like, hotcakes enough that Duncan said, hey, let me buy that. I'm going to keep the name Yoyo because it's catchy, I'm going to trademark it, and now I own it. And through the years, he had competitors that made similar devices with different names, and they were like, dude, everyone's calling this thing a yoyo. We want to be able to call it a yoyo, too. And he said, no, I own it. Then the federal courts in 1965 says, you know what? That's generic enough now where you don't own it any longer. Right. They're all yoyos. Well, those legal challenges to their trademark, the name Yoyo was one of the things that bled the company dry. It eventually went bankrupt. Duncan company went bankrupt in the same year. They ruled yeah. Against them. They were like, well, that's it for us. But they also had other money troubles. They were actually victims of their own success. The Duncan company was. So they moved in the Luck, Wisconsin, which very quickly became known as the yoyo capital of the world. And at their peak, they were making 3600 yoyos an hour. Wow. Mostly out of wood at first maple. They were using a million board feet of maple wood every year. Yeah, that's a lot. And they actually, in addition to their legal challenges, like the money going to fight their legal battles. They were paying tons of money in overtime to advertising. And as a matter of fact, I think in 1962, Chuck, they managed to sell 45 million yoyos. And in that same year, there were only 40 million kids in the US. Wow. That's pretty astounding a chicken in every pot. And a yoyo in every other hand, at least. Yeah, sure, I guess some kids were yoyo with both hands up. They're rich kids, but like I said, the company ended up going bankrupt anyway. But yoyo enthusiasts still look very fondly on the Duncan name, and I think June 6 is National Yoyo Day, which happens to be the same day as Donald Duncan's birthday. Well, and the Duncan name lives on. Obviously, you still see Duncan yoyos. They sold out. They didn't just shut down. Well, they went bankrupt and sold out. Right? Yeah. So who was it? The Flambale plastics company. They said, we'll keep the name Duncan because it's synonymous with yoyoz. Yeah, it's not generic yet. No. Hey, everybody, if you want a great quality website, you want to do it yourself with no must and no fuss. Then there's nowhere else to look in Squarespace. That's right. Squarespace has every single thing that you need to put together an awesome website. Everything from growing and engaging your audience with email campaigns, collecting donations for your cause through Apple, Pay, Stripe, Venmo, PayPal. Plus, you can also make your website optimized for mobile, which is great for your user on the go. That's right. And if you're into selling stuff, square space is everything to sell anything. They have all the tools you need to get your business off the ground. They have ecommerce templates, inventory management, really simple checkout process, and secure payment. So whatever you want to sell, you can sell it on Squarespace. Yeah, don't just take our word for it. Head to squarespace. comSK and start your free trial today. And then when you're ready to launch, use our offer code S YSK, and you'll get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's Squarespace.com. Sysksk squarespace. What if you were a global energy company with operations in Scotland, technologists in India, and customers, all on different systems? You need to pull it together. So you call in IBM and Red Hat to create an open hybrid cloud platform. Now, data is available anywhere, securely, and your digital transformation is helping find new ways to unlock energy around the world. Let's create a hybrid cloud that can change in industry. IBM, let's create learn more@ibm.com. This is a little yoga history for you. Yeah, I got a little more. I'm going to say to the end, I think you'll like okay. I didn't tease you with it. Now let's talk about physics. Well, I think this is very interesting. Good. Okay. You mentioned with the string tied to the classic Chinese design, yoyo, you have one kind of energy going on, right? Yes. And that is linear momentum. The ability of it to go up and down. I should say down and up, right? That's right. With the Filipino design, the modern design, it has two kinds of potential energy. It has that same linear momentum to go up and down, but it also has angular momentum, and angular momentum is its ability to spin on an axle. Okay. So you got two things going on, and like you said, when the yoyo hits the end of the line of its linear momentum, it can still it's built up since it's wound around the spool. Yeah, it's built up a lot of angular momentum. So we can just sit there and spin or sleep, as you called it. Yeah. It actually increases as it goes down, which is the key to keeping it spinning. Right. It gets faster as it falls. There's another pretty cool trait through yoyo. Who knew they were so complex? I didn't. Did you? I did not. Okay. So they also have gyroscopic stability. Chuck they do. Okay, so if you have a yoyo that's sleeping and you push down on top of it, it goes down and then back up. Right. That's because of its gyroscopic stability. That point that you push down on the yoyo is transferred from the front and spun around to the back. So that's even out. So the yoyo will just keep spinning as long as it's spinning fast enough. Gyroscopic stability. Yes. That means a spinning object will resist change to its axis of rotation. And if you ever thrown a football, it's the same thing. Yeah. Or if you've ever thrown a football poorly. What do they call that? A wobbler? A turkey? Wounded duck. Brick. That's why wounded duck doesn't go very far, because it doesn't have that tight spin. So it falls off its axis and won't travel as far. Exactly. Same as a frisbee. And then the whole team's mad at you. Basically, anything that spins. Yeah. Frisbees footballs. There's got to be a baseball. We could liken it to a baseball somehow. Let's say a curveball knuckle ball slider. Definitely not a knuckle ball slider than spin at all. Really? Is it like a shot put? No, knuckle ball. The whole key is it doesn't move. It travels like this, and that's why it moves all around. Crazy. Isn't that nutty? Yeah. So you've got your yoyo sleeping. You're totally aware of its gyroscopic stability, and you understand that it's angular momentum is just awesome. It's far out. Right. It's far out, but you want to wake it up, and that's when you bring it out of its sleep and rewind it back up the spool. Right. Little tug on the old finger. Yeah. And the reason why is because the loop right. There's less friction with the loop around the axle. When you tug it, you increase that friction, and you allow it to rewind. It just grabs a hold of its buddy and says, let's go. Back up to the palm. Yes. It's pretty cool. Yeah. I like yoyo physics a lot. So we basically just talked about the two hardest parts, right? Sleeping and waking. Yeah. And like I said, sleeping is the key to do any kind of trick, like walking the dog, which I was pretty good. I used to do a few yellow tricks. Really? Yeah. I could walk the dog and I could do the deal where you make a triangle and then ticktock through the triangle. Something like a cradle, or probably the cats in the cradle. Let's call it a cat's cradle. And then I could do the around the world. Wow. Around the world. Yeah, I couldn't do any of those. This inspired me to get a new yoyo, by the way. I like the vintage Duncan one, specifically, the yellow ones with the butterfly, like the gold butterfly, the inverted ones. No butterfly on the table. Because they had those that looked like a butterfly that were I know what you're talking about. Inverted. And I think that actually plays a part in the increasing the moment of inertia section. I think that's why they flipped it out, to put more weight on the outside. Yeah. Okay. You want to talk about that? Why not? So do you remember when we did the Murphy's Law podcast? How could I forget? Remember one of the books that he wrote was for your moments of inertia. Yeah, yeah. I didn't realize it was a terrible, terrible engineering pun until I read this article. Yeah. I hate John Paul staff a little bit. No, we love that guy. So, Chuck, a moment of inertia is basically a way of describing a spinning objects, resistance to changes in that rotation, basically being slowed down. Right. And what smarter people than us have figured out is that if you increase the mass and distribute it slightly further away from the axis, you're going to increase its moment of inertia. Right. And that increases the amount of time it's just sleeping. Right? Yeah. And like I said, I don't know this, but I just remember when I was a kid, they had those inverted yoyos, and I bet you anything that's why they did that. It's got to be because they were wider at the outside and then curved in, which had to be less mass. Yeah, it was less stuff, less wood. So I'm going to go on record saying that's why they did that. But I think you want more mass further away to increase its momentum inertia. Right? Yeah. So there was more mass on the outside, further away from the axis. Right? Yeah. So that allows things to sleep a lot longer. And that was, I guess you could say, one of the breakthroughs in yoyo design. I think in the 60s, they started adding mass to the outside and extending the axle a little bit. Bam. The yoyo has been improved. Think about this, right? 2500, maybe even longer than that. Years ago, somebody invented the yoyo does not change until the Philippines in the early 20th century. Well, I thought it said it did change. We just don't know. Said there were changes in design over the years. No, not that I took I took it like there was one way, and then there was the filipino way, and that was it. We got a correction to make them, and then the 20th century hits, and then there's all these great improvements on these designs. Indeed. One of the improvements, Chuck, was adding ball bearings. Right. Yeah. Well, you and I don't think these are improvements, or at least I don't. Okay. That's absolutely true. That's a good caveat. I think that the Filipinos perfected the yoyo. Let's just call them modifications, okay. For sorry kids who don't know how to yoyo. Rich kids. Yeah. That makes it easier, I think. And that's the whole point of both of these things. Yeah, I guess it makes it easier to sleep, and I guess they're like, well, if you're just enjoying sleeping and waking your yoyo, then why make it tough if you want to have fun with your toy? Right. I can't believe they made it easier for kids to have fun. How dare they? So, the ball bearing design, I think, is kind of clever. Basically, this modification takes the axle and splits it into two races, which are basically little courses for ball bearings to spin around. Right. Now, does it split the axle? These are just around the axle. So one is connected to the axle. Right. That's the inner race. One is connected to the string. That's the outer race. And then in between, the two are ball bearings. Right. Okay. They're not connected in any way except maybe via the context of the ball bearings. Right. So, when you release your yoyo toward the ground and it's linear, and angular momentum really build up when it hits, the inner race can tilt a little bit and connect with the outer race via the ball bearings. So they're spinning, and then as they straighten out, they're not connected anymore, so that the string no longer has any effect on whether the yoyo spins or not, because it's just the inner race connected to the axle that's spinning. So your yoyo can sleep far, far longer. Yeah. The outer race spins the inner race, which spins the axle. Right. It's like a transfer of angular momentum. Exactly. And then the strings just like you just let me know when you're done, and we'll wind back up. Well, it'll get a little tug. It'll do the same thing with that style. Right, right. Okay. Or you can just completely take yourself out of the equation altogether. Except for a snap of the wrist, the initial release is all you need to do with what's called the yoyo with the brain. These are really fake yoyos. Yeah. I want to get one, though. It's kind of cool. You could be in a vegetative state and do this yoyo. Yeah, this was in the 90s. Company called Yoka released these and they called it the Yoyo with a Brain, when in fact they should have called it the Yoyo with a Clutch. And the deal here is you've got these two clutch arms, weighted ball on one side, and it's not attached on the other side, and they're spring loaded. The spindle is not attached to the axle, but the clutch arms are attached to the spindle. So when you throw this thing down, it's going to spin slower at first, and the clutch is engaged as it gets faster. All of a sudden, it's enough inertia to pop the clutch, essentially against the edges, and it releases the spindle, which makes the whole thing spin faster on the axis. Right. The centrifugal force pushes down the weight, which pushes down the arm onto the spring, which releases the two, which allows it to spin. And it only spins for a certain amount of time. It's not like the kind that you tug back up. It'll spin until it slows down, and then the clutch locks back down and boom, it shoots back up right back up. I wish we had one of those. I want to see what it's like. So basically, the two modifications are based on separating the string from the axle by creating two different kinds of, I guess, axles or spindles or whatever, which are really just sort of taking the Filipino design a step further because although it made contact with the axle, it wasn't, quote, connected to the axle. Yeah, I guess it was, but it wasn't tight. Right. And a guy named Michael Caffrey is the one who came up with the yoyo with the brain. And the omega started telling him in 1090, but he came up with it in 1982, years after a man named Tom Kune created the no jive three and one yoyo that you could take apart and replace the axle and do all sorts of modifications with. Oh, really? Big time for changes in yoyo design. So did he rip this dude off? Is that what you're saying? No. Okay. No, I'm just saying, like, these two big steps in yoyo design. You said two years after it was sinister. Well, you're a very suspicious person. I am when it comes to yoyo design. Hey, everybody, if you want a great quality website, you want to do it yourself with no must and no fuss. Then there's nowhere else to look at in Squarespace. That's right. Squarespace has every single thing that you need to put together an awesome website. Everything from growing and engaging your audience with email campaigns, collecting donations for your cause through Apple, pay, Stripe, Venmo, PayPal. Plus, you can also make your website optimized for mobile, which is great for your user on the go. That's right. And if you're into selling stuff, square space is everything to sell anything. They have all the tools you need to get your business off the ground. They have ecommerce templates, inventory management, really simple checkout process, and secure payment. So whatever you want to sell, you can sell it on squarespace. Yeah. Don't just take our word for it. Head to squarespace. Comssk and start your free trial today. And then when you're ready to launch, use our offer code S YSK, and you'll get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain that's squarespace. Comsysk. Squarespace. What if you were a trendy apparel company facing an avalanche of demand to ensure more customers can buy more sherpa lined jackets? You call IBM to automate your it infrastructure with AI. Now, your systems monitor themselves. What used to take hours takes minutes, and you have an ecommerce platform designed to handle sudden spikes in overall demand, as in actual overalls. Let's create It systems that rule up their own sleeves. IBM. Let's create. Learn more@ibm.com It automation. Chuck, that's pretty much the physics of Yoyos. Did you know that we just explained how Yoyos work? I looked online at videos and stuff to make it a little easier, because this is a very visual thing, and they do have videos. But what I found out is that a lot of physics teachers use Yoyos to describe these, whatever, four to six properties that we described. I have to tell you, I understand angular momentum far better now. I understand although it went through the yellow through the football, I understand the moment of inertia. Okay, wait, was that moment of inertia? No, that's angular momentum. Angular momentum spinning on an axis. Yeah. Oh, you were talking about the Gyroscopic stability. I get confused, I think, to chuck, it's physics, man. Don't feel bad. You want to know a couple more pieces of Yoyo Trivia? Yeah. Let's hear it. In 1968, when Abby Hoffman of the Chicago 7th was indicted or no, charged with contempt of Congress, when he started doing the walk the dog during a House on American Activities Committee oh, really? Session that was investigating him. So he was like, I'm just so over this. I'm going to Yoyo. Well, apparently the way I read it is that he was trying to entertain, lighting everything up. I was like, Here, watch me. Yoyo. And he was walking the dog. Who accident. So that's how Yoyos are connected to McCarthyism. If you want to take an S YSK quiz and that comes up. Plus, Yoyos were huge back then. Totally. That was like the heyday, I think it was the 60s. Yeah. Nixon. Have you seen Nixon try to yoyo? No, man, if you don't like Nixon, this will just make you hate them even more. The night that they opened the Grand Old Opera, and I think some time in 1974, what's the main guy like, the whole cast of Hehaw behind Nixon, and then the main roy Acoust. Yeah. He presents Nixon with a yoyo. And has to put in on Nixon's finger, and Nixon looks like, what's going on? And then he tries to do it once, and it just kind of, like, flops down and makes, like, a sad trombone noise. Wow. And he just has this sullen, like, look on his face like, I don't like yoyo. Right. He looks kind of like you did at the beginning of this episode. Yeah, me and Nick. Tricky did. Who knew? And then they took a yoyo in space. Chuck. Yeah, I saw that. And it still worked. It did work. They found that letting it drop did nothing because they were testing it in microgravity. But if you throw it, it will go slowly. You can do it slowly, but it will still spin, and it moves just kind of gracefully along the string, like, in just midair, horizontally. But it will never sleep. Well, thank God NASA did that. Yeah, back in 1985. Those are all the videos you see, though they do much more than that. That was back when NASA was like, we have so much money, we don't know what to do. Exactly. Let's launch something. And let's say the toys and space project. Right. And they did. Now, this is just for yoyo. That was the only thing they did on that flight? Well, no, the Toys and Space Project encompassed 60 shuttle missions, one for each toy that they tested out. Wow. Jack's was one of the best ones. The bolo paddle. Yeah. So that's yoyo. Frankly, I'm pretty happy with this one. I thought you were going to lead in with something on yoyo Ma for some reason. No, man. Try to look up yoyos in the news and not get yoyo Ma. Jeez. Can't do it. Stupid. I searched yoyo MABA to finally get some stuff on it. Yoyo gabba gabba. Sure. Yeah. Oh, what was the other one? Yo Mama Neo. Yo, MTV Raps. That came up, too, did it? Yeah. I stopped searching before I minused MTV, too. You know how you could minus? Yes. And it'll route out all the search, all the results that have that. Really? So you just put the minus sign, minus. And then the next letter, no space. I had no idea. And you can do a bunch of different ones. No commas, no nothing. Just like, minus gabba. Minus, yo, really? Minus mom, minus knee. You've literally just improved my life. Oh, good. Or my research for, like, eight times a day. Yeah. All right, well, that's it. All right. Yoyo, I was in a jewelry store once, and Neo came in. Seemed nice. Who's Neo? He's a rapper. He's from Atlanta. I thought you're talking about the Matrix. His real name is Kennedy. Neo. This is Neo. Yeah, I've heard of him. Yeah, him. Well, if you want to learn more about yoyo's, including some really top notch illustrations, this is one of those ones that you will see why we have staff illustrators here. How to print these out, actually in color. You want to type in yoyo in the handysarch bar@houseoutworks.com. That will bring up that really cool article. And I said handy search bar. So now it's time for Chuck to shine with another edition of listener mail. Josh this is one of our oldest, and not by age, but one of our most loyal fans, anna Spies. She has a band and they put together well, let me just read it. This is coming out shortly after Christmas and she said it was still great to read this. Hi. Guys and Jerry. Since we're firmly in the festive. Greedy little griff of the holiday season. I was wondering if you could give a shout out to a project I'm involved in. Or my band is. At least it's a charity album to raise funds for the continued fallout from the Japanese earthquake and nuclear disaster in the light of everything that's happened since. I know it's been put on the back burner of most people's charitable contributions. Which is why we were thrilled and honored to do our part to re raise awareness when the label releasing this compilation approached us to contribute a track. So she's right. You hear about these tragedies that happen and then six months later, you kind of forget about it. The curse of the news cycle. Exactly. But luckily, there's a lot of people that my friend Dave is one of them, that's still working, like on The Tsunami from five or six years ago. Oh, that's great. So continued help is always needed. There's a CD, it's going to be out in mid December, so by the time this comes out, it'll already be out. You can stream the entire album, which is 37 tracks by 37 artists on the website. Morehopeforjapan.com and her band, New Century Classics, wrote and recorded a brand new song just for this compilation, and she's quite proud of it. And I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, but I'm done. And she says there's a lot of far better known artists on there, and anyone who likes instrumental music, post rock, ambient and basically pretty melodic guitar based tune should dig it. So check it out. That's Ana's band. New century classics. Cool. Morehopeforjapan.com very cool. Thanks a lot, Anna. Appreciate that. Thanks for letting us know. Thanks for doing what you do, and thanks for listening for years. She's been around forever. Yeah, I guess if you're working on something that you feel like everybody's forgotten and shouldn't have, let us know. And we'll try to help you re raise awareness, too. Yeah, send us a tweet to Syscape podcast. Or you can shoot us facebooksomething facebook. Comstuffyschnow. And as always, you can get really personal and send us an email, a real live email to stuffpodcast@howstepworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstepworks.com. To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of our home page. The House of Forks iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on itunes. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today. You know you're a pet mom when you plan your vacation around your pet pet. At Halo, we get it because we're pet moms, too. We make natural, high quality pet food that's rooted in science. It's the world's best food for the world's best kids. Learn more@halopets.com." | |
The Star Wars Holiday Special of 1978 | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/the-star-wars-holiday-special-of-1978 | Long ago, in a galaxy not so far away, George Lucas allowed the Star Wars Holiday Special to be made. What happened on the night of November 17, 1978 can never be fully explained, but we make our best effort in a very special edition of SYSK. May the forc | Long ago, in a galaxy not so far away, George Lucas allowed the Star Wars Holiday Special to be made. What happened on the night of November 17, 1978 can never be fully explained, but we make our best effort in a very special edition of SYSK. May the forc | Thu, 17 Dec 2015 14:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2015, tm_mon=12, tm_mday=17, tm_hour=14, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=351, tm_isdst=0) | 51733062 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, everybody. If you want a great website, you want to do it yourself. With no must, no fuss, turn to Squarespace. They have everything to sell anything. They have the tools that you need to get your business off the ground, including ecommerce templates, inventory management, simple checkout process, process, and secure payments. And if you're into analytics, hold on to your hats, because Squarespace has everything that you need. Just head to squarespace. comSK and you can get a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code s YSK to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Hey, friends. Dating is a journey with ups and downs, for sure. But all the effort is worth it when you meet someone special, right? And when you decide it's time to find a meaningful relationship, eharmony is here for you. Eharmony is passionate about creating real love for all. Rooted in compatibility, Eharmony's process reveals truths about yourself, like, I don't know what you want in a relationship, and it helps you connect with a uniquely compatible partner who is right for you. Don't believe it? See for yourself. So start for free today, because every 14 minutes, someone finds love on Eharmony. Welcome to stuff you should know from housekeeporxcom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W, truckers Bryant and Jerry Jerome. Roland, the Wookie mother. Yeah. Mala. That was the Wicky wife. Oh, and mother. Yeah, sure. Chewbacca's mom is not with them any longer. She left. She was not about to appear in that. She went out the window. I'm excited about this, I have to say. We should say happy Star Wars Day. Yeah. Today is December 17. I have my opening night tickets. Do you really? Sure. Wow. Yeah. I will definitely go see it in the theater. But why? Won't be their opening night. Sure. I've gotten really adept at ignoring spoilers people, talking about stuff. I could conceivably see this movie a month after it comes out and still going fresh. I'm in Ostrich. Yeah. You black yourself out. Yeah. You go dark. I do. I make myself go to sleep. You go to the dark side. I've been there a while now. Well, happy Star Wars Day, though. I'm sure that I think this pairs nicely with Christmas. Star Wars Day. It's all come together. Yes. We already missed Life Day, though. So happy Belated Life day. Are they celebrating it this year? November 17. Yeah, but it's every three years. Arcane. Yeah, man. Not weird job. Okay, so it's every three years started in 1978. Let's do the math, shall we? Quick math break. I believe that 2014 was the last Life Day. We just missed that and then again in 2017. Okay, so 2017 will celebrate Life Day. We'll put on our red robes, our ultra long straight iron wigs sure. And we'll celebrate Life Day the way it was meant to. Yeah. Then if you have no idea what we're talking about. We are talking about life day, which is a celebration that wookies in the star wars universe have every three years. Yes. It's like their Christmas. Yeah. Or their quanta or their tet, supposedly. It's sort of like earth day, too. They celebrate the diversity of their ecosystem and also remembrance of the dead. And they also give us they're like the finns, basically. Yeah. It's a very interesting part of the star wars canon. It is. And it's almost entirely made up, dashed off, you could possibly say, by George Lucas in the it's the basis of what has become derided as, like, one of the worst things that ever happened to the star wars galaxy. Well, not only that, one of the worst things ever aired on television in this galaxy. Yeah. At first, that sounds like hyperbole. Like, come on. It's because it was star wars. We had high expectations, but it's really that bad. The people who say that haven't seen even a second of it. Yeah. However, I watched it when I was a kid, then again this week. And you watched it twice this week. Yeah, I watched it last night and this morning. There's something about it. It's mesmerizing. It really is. It's one of those things that you start watching it and you want to turn it off, but you want to see just how absurd it can get. Almost. Yeah. And it starts absurd. It stays absurd in the middle. Yeah. Increasingly more absurd. It gets a little less absurd, finishes super absurd. Yeah. It's just a train wreck in every single sense of the word, top to bottom. It's extraordinarily difficult to overstate how bad this is, and some people, in researching this, you read about it, you read descriptions of these things, and it just can't possibly be gotten across until you see it. So luckily, as we will see, you can go on to YouTube and watch it, and you may even enjoy this episode more if you pause, go spend 2 hours watching this thing and then come back and laugh along with us. Yeah, there's a great over the years, there have been many segments of it on YouTube from badly dubbed VHS tapes, but there's one really pretty good version of it in full. Brought to you by Whio dayton, Ohio. Channel Seven, Ohio. Because that flashes up on the screen periodically. Man, it is high quality. Yeah, it looks good. It has to basically be the copy that the actual affiliate broadcast. It's like that quality compared to the other stuff floating around on YouTube. It's clearly recorded on a 1978 PCR, which is really expensive. Very expensive. I did some calculating on west egg. Okay, so the average VCR went for about $1,000. They were brand new. It's amazing. $1,000 in 1978 money, so they're about three $800 in 2014 money. Crazy. Luckily, there were some rich people out there recording this stuff, and the wealthy have saved us all again, yet again, as they always do. Yes. We need to shout out some articles that we use for this. There's a great article in Vanity Fair called The Han Solo Comedy Hour. Exclamation point. Yes. By Frank de Jacob. And then the Star Wars holiday special was the worst thing on television ever by someone we kind of know, alex Pasternak from motherboard. Yeah. Which is not wired, it's vice. Yeah. We wrote a little bit for motherboard back then and we had a call with that. We're like, old motherboard vets, basically. Wasn't there one more? There was another one and I don't know who wrote this one. Chuck. Yeah. The title is the Star Wars Holiday Special. George Lucas wants to smash every copy of with a sledgehammer, which is a famous quote, supposedly at a convention by Lucas. Yes. Which is not correct. He didn't ever say that. No. Okay. That sounded like something that people made up. Yes. But if you go on the internet, you will quickly believe that he did, but apparently he didn't. Sure. I'm sure he felt that way, though, clearly, because he did appear on robot chicken and I think 2005 on the therapist's couch talking about how much he hated the special. All right, so let's set the background, shall we? Shall we go back to 1977? Summer getting the old way back machine. All right, let's do it. All right. Here we are. There's WOODSTON. Yes. I'm just a little six year old excited about Star Wars. I've just turned one. Yes. You don't know what's up yet. Please forgive me if I urinate myself. No problem. So what has happened is Star Wars has become a huge, huge hit, seemingly out of nowhere, establishing George Lucas is one of the brilliant young minds in filmmaking. Even though in his first movie, it was his first huge breakout hit. Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, talk about a breakout hit like no one had ever seen anything like it before. No. 2001 had come out in the late 60s, but it wasn't still isn't accessible to all audiences. Yeah, it's pretty cerebral film. Yeah. It's not an adventure movie. This was Star Wars. This is like basically swashbuckling on the screen, but in a galaxy far, far away. Star wars just changed everything and it came on just like a hammer. Yeah. It's a new hope, by the way. Yes. And I know we're going to get stuff wrong. Nerds. Yes. Just go ahead and get your little fingers ready to email us if it wasn't driven home that I'm not nerd by the fact that I don't have opening night tickets or any tickets yet. Give me a break. Okay. And by proxy chuck, too. Okay. Thank you. It's hard to state how great Star Wars was in everyone's mind. Right. Bill Murray came out with that lounge singer Star Wars thing. Yeah. It was everywhere. And if you just listen to the lyrics of it really it's just Bill Murray singing about how much star wars is awesome. Right. So by the following year, George Lucas, he wanted to figure out a way to keep audiences just engaged with the whole star wars franchise that he was just starting to build. But he knew the empire strikes back was a couple more years out. Sure. So I think he was approached by some TV executives who said, have you considered doing some sort of TV special? They're all arranged right now. We have a graphic that's really awesome that we set aside just for TV specials here at CBS. Why don't you let us let's get together and do a star wars special. That's right. Producers Gary Smith and Dwight Hemion were working over at CBS and they said, this is a great way to keep the spirit alive while you're making your other movie. Maybe move some more toys. Yes. George Lucas got a cut of all the toys. Sure. It was right before Thanksgiving, and he said there'd be a lot of people watching TV pre holiday season or I guess in the holiday season. Well, the weekend before Thanksgiving, it's like everybody's shopping, sitting around, family, like, waiting to actually do stuff. That's right. Perfect time to broadcast something on TV. So Lucas says, all right, let's do this. I don't have a ton of time, but how about this? I'll get a story together and then you can go hire a whiz bang team of veteran writers and producers and directors, whatever genre you think is appropriate. And those are the words that will haunt George Lucas to his grave. Yeah. So Lucas said, here's my idea. I want it to be based on rookies and I want it to take place on their home planet of Kazuk or wikipane at sea. Is that how you say Kazuk? That's how it's pronounced in the holiday special. But it's also pronounced different ways. Other times I would have pronounced it K-E-E. Spell it K-A-S-H-Y-Y-Y-K which, I mean, I guess it sounds like $2 playing. It sure. Also called g 5623. Wookie planet c or edion is a mid rim planet. Right. So the whole reason apparently that George Lucas was interested in featuring the rookies was it is what we in show business call low hanging fruit. The reason why it was low hanging fruit was because they had just established the different scenes that would make the cut for empire strikes back. How did you pronounce it again? Kazuk. Kazakh had not made the cut even prior to this. Apparently for a new hope, george Lucas had whipped up a 40 page what's known as the wookie bible. It's like a 40 page supplement that's all about Kazuk and wookies and chewbacca and his family and everything about rookie. Dumb, right? That's right. So he's like, I've got this thing already established. I love rookies. They didn't make the cut. I'm a little sad about that. Kazuki is not going to show up in the empire strikes back. Let's build the entire special around rookies. It's basically the one demand me George Lucas has. Yeah, that's it. I'll be totally hands off from this point on, which it kind of was. He totally was. It was actually this experience that apparently taught him, because he's a very hands on person that he is famous for being. It came out of this Christmas special. Absolutely. He was burned and had an iron grip after that on everything. So here's some of the folks behind it. Bruce Valanch. Famous TV writer. You probably seen him on Hollywood Squares. Wasn't he suspected of being Thomas Pinchon for a while? I don't know. Or was Thomas Pinchon on Hollywood Squares? I have no idea. I may be confabulating some stuff. Confounding? There's some kind of some sort going on. Sounds like it, yeah. So Valanci was hired as a writer. A guy named Lenny Rips was hired as a writer who has some great quotes in that Vanity Fair article. He does. His first quote was, we were really excited because this is Star Wars. How could it lose? Famous last words. Who else was hired? There was a husband and wife team, the Welches, who are the parents of folk singer Gillian Welch, I'm a big fan of, and I had no idea that her parents were producerssungwriters of the day. They were big on the variety show scene, which would turn out to be a really key cog in this whole experience. So I feel like right about here, jerry should insert a needle coming off of a record. Sounds like. Yeah. Okay. Thanks, Jerry. So, Chuck, you just said singer songwriters. Yeah. What would that have to do with Star Wars? Yeah, well, actually in this Star Wars holiday special, for those of you who haven't seen it, there are musical numbers. They decided from the outset that there should be musical numbers. And the reason that they decided that there should be musical numbers is because the people who sold George Lucas and at the time it was the Star Wars corporation was what it was called on the idea of doing this TV special was that everyone would love a variety show. Yeah, it was the 70s. Great idea. Let's do a variety show. The problem was this apparently George Lucas didn't watch enough TV and he also overly trusted people who talked to him. Sure. Because by 1978, yes, variety shows had dominated television for over ten years, but it had come to an end. It was getting stale. Yeah. We're talking Carol Burnett show, one of my favorite had just been canceled after eleven season. Big red flag. Sunny and Cher had just had its last season. I mean, what else? Like he hall was still going on. Probably they didn't know what I think he Haw is still on. Solid Gold had yet to come on and take up the mantle that would never write a show. It was a little bit there's, talking in between the songs. Yeah, I remember the mandrel sister show. I never watched that one. What was with that country chic thing that happened? Yes, it was a big deal in the sense it's kind of happening again, I think. Oh, because of that dude, the guy who won all the CMA Awards. I don't know, he came along. He's like, actually country. His dad's like a coal miner. For real. From Kentucky, I think. I know what you mean, Chris. Yeah, he is good. He's come along and been like, what are you guys doing? Well, there's a revival in good country music again. That's great. Like, in the tradition of Merle Haggard and Cash and I guess it's probably where the country she came from because there was actually good country going on. Yeah. Johnny Cash had a variety show. Did he really? Oh, yeah. I knew they did, like, a Sunday singing thing, like, out in Virginia. Yeah, he had his own variety show was actually pretty good. There's some really great performances. Do you know how many nerds are like, get back to Star Wars? I know. I'm so sorry. All right, so the variety show is dying, sort of. And so they figure, what a great time to take the biggest movie property on the planet and wedge it into the variety show milieu. I don't know if wedge is the right word. I think maybe nestle it in there and then start hitting it with the blunt edge of an axe until it mashes into that crevice. That's right, because this is the time when Fantasy Island had just started. Morgan mindy was about to change things. Charlie's Angels was getting huge. Basically, television as we knew it from 1980 to whenever the real world came along, just escapist television is what they call it, was starting, and it was the hip new thing. So basically, if they had turned Han Solo and Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker into maybe sexy detectives, it might have gone over even better. But they went the other way. They decided to latch onto this extraordinarily stale genre of television and they hired the best in the business. There was a quote from, I think, Lenny Rips who was saying, like, we had literally a dream team, a variety show dream team, and everybody was good, but there were probably no bad welders on the Titanic either. That's a great quote. Yeah. The guy they hired to direct it initially was a dude named David Ecomba, and he had made his name for welcome to the Film East. It was a concert documentary with Van Morrison and the Birds in 1971. And he actually was at USC film school at the same time as Lucas, even though they didn't know each other. And he only ended up directing about three segments of the thing. Yes. Before he walked off some say he was actually let go, but we'll get to him in a minute. And who replaced him. Okay. As we get along down this gross road. Well, let's take a little break because I'm overly excited. All right. Okay. All right. So we've established most of the main players. We'll get to a few more. We should point out that Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher. Sure. Peter Mayhew, they had no grounds to refuse to be on, basically. Yeah, pretty much. They were not huge stars, yet they could throw their weight around and say, this is terrible, and I'm not doing it. They were big overnight because of Star Wars, for sure, but they weren't to the adoring public. Sure. Back at studio, they could still be bossed around, and this is the result of it. And you can tell also, just from watching the actual special, harrison Ford is not happy to be there at any point. Oh, no. Princess Leia is clearly on drugs. Was she on drugs at this point? If you watch it, she's on drugs. Especially the ending scene. Mark Hamill, it looks like he's happy to be there, actually. He was fine, but apparently he said, no, I'm not doing a musical number. Yeah. And if you watch his part, wedging a musical number in there would have been even more painful. Sure. But everybody who was part of the actual Star Wars franchise that wasn't wearing, like, a full body costume was like, I really wish I wasn't here. And you can tell. Yeah. In fact, in the opening credit sequence, they're showing the picture, the faces of the people, and you see Harrison Ford as if he's flying the Millennium Falcon. And you can just hear the guy off screen going, now look at the camera and just give a nod. Just look at the camera and give a nod. And he finally you can tell he's pissed off. And he looks up at the camera and just sort of smirks. Yeah. And points to the camera like, okay, I'm looking at the camera. And then goes back to what he's doing. Yeah. It's pretty awesome. I felt bad for him so early on, volanche and others. Did you feel bad for him, though? Really? Come on. It's harrison Ford. Tong solo. He has to go do this for, like, five days. Yeah, I felt terrible for him. I think it's hilarious that they had to do this, especially now. Well, early on, Valanci and others knew that they may be in trouble because they decided not to subtitle any of the Wookie dialogue. Right. And they literally started after a brief opening scene. Setting it up. Here's the basic plot. Han Solo is trying to get Chewbacca back to Kazakh in Time for Life Day so he can celebrate with his family. That's the basis of the entire 2 hours. That's the entire 2 hours. They encounter a space battle and they are delayed. And the next 2 hours are kind of what's going on while the delay is happening. Back on Kazoop. Back on Kazoop. Because you hear, like, okay, well, Han Solo and Chewbacca evading the Imperial Guard and all that stuff for 2 hours. I would watch that. Sure. I would, too. Yeah. That's not what they show. Killing time at the Wookie household. That is what they show. Yeah, that's what they do. It's people hanging out, waiting for Chewbacca, worrying about him, and then killing time while they wait for him to come back. Yeah, literally. Hold on. So you say there's a set up, right? Yeah, that's the initial set up. And then Chuck, that's followed by this. Yeah, it's followed by literally ten minutes. Ten solid minutes of incomprehensible Wookie speak. So let's join it for a second, shall we? Yeah, let's all enjoy it. And again, you said ten minutes. And you're not exaggerating. You're not being hyperbolic. You can time it. It's ten minutes of Wookies talking to each other with no subtitles. Fortunately, I couldn't follow it at first. I didn't even know who it was. I thought it might have been Chewbacca's mom and dad. Oh, yeah, that's it. And little brother. And I don't find out until later when Mark Camel shows up via Skype Call and says he really explains everything that had just happened. Like, you're Chewbacca's father itchy, you're Chewbacca's son, Lumpy, and you or Chubbak's wife. Oh, Mala, yeah. Thank you. So before everybody starts, like, freaking out, we know that that's actually their nicknames. Their real names are his father is really hard to pronounce. Mulatto Buck is his wife, and his son is Lumpo orump but as named by Lucas. Yeah, but Lucas also named him Lumpy, Itchy, and Mala. So they're all back there wringing their hands, trying to figure out ways to pass the time until they get word from Chewbacca that he's made it to what is it? Ketchup. Kezuck. Kazuk. He said Ketchup ketchup. Or Ketchup, if you're fancy. But Chewbacca is having trouble getting back to Khachuk because there's a blockade by the Empire, and they're looking for rebels, specifically Chewbacca, who I didn't realize is he's the most famous Wookie of all. Did you know that? Yeah, of course I didn't know that. Well, I mean, he's the only one that really appears in the movies, but we're seeing, like, these people's view of the universe. What about back on Kazuki? Might have just been a fly by night Wookie, right? Yeah, but not the case. Very famous Wookie. Yeah. And he really loved to soak in his fame. All right, so he realizes there's a problem. valanche. He goes to Lucas and is like, I don't know, man, this is your world. But it may not be the strongest thing to do to set this in Wookie land and have all this comprehensible dialogue. And he says he was met with a glacial stare. Well, he put it a little differently. Than that. Well, he said glacial stare. He did. The glacial stair that he got was for this quote. He said, these people just talk and what sounds like fat people having an orgasm. He goes, if you want, you can set up a tape recorder in my bedroom and I'll do all of the foliing for it. Yeah, he's a large guy. He is. So that's what got the glacial stair. But Valanci later said that there was one development meeting that Lucas attended, and it was, here's the Wookie Bible, tell me what you got. And Villanche said he and the other writers and producers and directors were just kind of throwing ideas. And George Lucas would either say, like, no, that doesn't work, give them a glacial stare, or say, yes, that's exactly it. Yes. Let's make this a variety show. Yeah. And there was a little bit of background there. The Cantina Players and the band had appeared on other variety shows at that point, and I think it went over fairly well just as a short segment. Unlike the Richard Pryor variety show or Donnie Marie, there were a lot of variety shows. But that's what I'm saying. That was television. That's what you did. Like the Brandy's. The show had its course, and then it became a variety show. Everybody loved variety shows. Yeah. By this time, though, everybody was sick of variety shows. Right. And so it really was a terrible choice. In fact, they even hired a couple of writers from Shields and Yarnell, which I hadn't heard of. Had you? Oh, yeah, I watched it. It was creepy. This mind couple who had their own variety show, and they figured, these two will be great because they are used to working without words. Right. So there is a certain logic to the variety shows all over the place. Not just that variety shows were popular at the time. Somebody was like, well, you don't understand what they're saying, so this is all going to be very physical. So these people who did what is it? Shields and Yarn? Yeah, that's a perfect choice. That makes complete sense. You can see this whole process of leading up to the point where it was produced and shot and everything, a series of like, oh, we have this problem. Well, here's the fix. Yeah, but that leads to another problem. Well, we'll fix it with this. And no one's stepping back and being like, all we've done is create a series of problems that are going to come together and make one extraordinarily large problem that will become legendary. No one did that. And so the whole thing was made. That's right. And that eventually airs on November 17, 1978, a Friday at 08:00 P.m. Eastern time. That's right. Nielsen ratings. It attracted 13 million viewers, lost the second hour just in the US. It aired in seven countries total. Yeah, but no one cares about that. I guess not, because none of those are on the Internet. It finished second to The Love Boat I'm sorry, from eight to nine. And then the next hour, I actually finished behind part two of a mini series about Pearl Harbor starring Angie Dickinson. So it didn't even win their respective hours. No. 13 million. That's not bad. The thing is, apparently, if you look at the Nielsen ratings graph for the first hour yeah, we know about that graph. It's okay. Yeah, we do. And then after a very important part, which we'll talk about soon, it just drops off at the end of the first hour. And that actually probably made the executives at CBS cringe for a number of reasons. Number one is this special was originally supposed to just be an hour, but so many advertisers wanted to sign on that they extended it to 2 hours, and it shines through. You can totally tell that this thing was never supposed to be I think an hour might have been stretching it, to tell you the truth. It's 30 minutes of content. 40 if you're generous. An hour. And then 2 hours, it becomes one of the worst things that was ever put on television. All right, well, let's take a break, and then we'll talk a little bit more about the actual I don't want to call it content, but it is content in the strictest definition. Sure. Right after this. 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And if you are a victim of identity theft, a dedicated US based restoration specialist will work to fix it. Identity thefts have had it easy for far too long. Now, finally, it's your turn. Just remember, no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. But everyone can save up to 25% off their first year by going to LifeLock. comStuff that's LifeLock.com stuff for 25% off your first year. LifeLock identity theft protection starts here. All right, so the show itself, we've given you the main plot line, which, again, is that Chewy is trying to get back to his home planet to celebrate Life Day with. His family. Right, that's it. And again, we almost barely see Chewy. The rest is his family on, waiting for him to come back for a life day. Yeah. So some of the various things they did, they were guest stars. There was a Harvey Corman from The Carol Burnett Show. Okay. One of my all time favorites. Him or Carol Burnett show. Both. He's great. Yeah. He actually, if you watch what he's doing, you're like, this is a comedy genius. Well, apparently he, too was, like, the only one on set that was bringing levity. He was joking around and kind of kept spirits up. Good for him. That's what I say. He had three different parts. Yeah. He played well, I don't even know the names, actually. We could look them up. But he played a Julia Childlike cook. There's an actual cooking segment, a long one. A very long cooking segment, where Chewbacca's wife makes bantha stew to kill some time. To kill some time. Both waiting on her planet and in our living room. Yeah. So Harvey Corman Drag is a four armed Julia Childlike TV chef. Right. I think it's Gormanda. It's her name. Gormanda. That makes total sense. Yeah. He also plays there's this one weird bit where Chewbacca's son tries to figure out a way to trick the stormtroopers. The Empire had come because the blockade raided the house and other properties. So he tries to trick them by, I think, rigging a.com link to speak in a different voice. So he has to watch the instruction manual. He watches an instruction video, which was Harvey kitel as a robot. Oh, it would have been wonderful living. Harvey kitel. Oh, they say Harvey, Harvey Corn. Oh, man. Harvey murdered someone in the middle of the insurance. Harvey Corman. And then the final role he had was a bar patron in the cantina that drinks. He has a hole in the top of his head like a volcano, where he pours his drinks in. That's how he drinks. And he loves bee. Arthur. Did we mention B Arthur was in it? B Arthur is not only in it, Chuck. She sings a song. She does. She is the notes to everyone she manages or maybe owns the cancer. She's the owner. Yeah. What's, the Mazwatina? No masteff is a rapper. Oh, yeah. I think you mean Maas isley. Yes, that canteena. She's the owner. B. Arthur is the owner. B. Arthur of the Golden Girls. But in this case, the Arthur of Maud, because as one of the people who wrote one of the articles we base this on points out she's just basically playing Maud as the owner of the cantina. Yeah. And her song comes because they basically say there's a lockdown, so you got to call last call at your bar. So she calls last call by singing a song to everyone. Right. And again, we can't possibly have the script lead anywhere else but Chewbacca's house while his family waits for it. So all this takes place as part of a public service announcement basically broadcast by the Empire about how immoral life on Tatooine is. So let's go see what's going on in the Maze Isley Cantina as it's being shut down for curfew. Yeah. Alright. This is incomprehensible, but it goes on. So there in it there's also Art Carney. Yes. He's the honeymooner. Probably the star of the whole thing, really. He has the most lines. I would say the most comprehensible line. Right. So he plays a human traitor that has recently been with Han Solo and Chewie and actually gets to Kazuk and says they're on the way, it's all good. Yeah. A trader not traitor. Yeah. Trader. Trades humans for money. No, he sells goods. Yeah, a trader. He doesn't trade humans. Yeah, he's in the human trade. He is. He no, he isn't. Really? Yeah, he trades humans like he sells humans. I looked it up in Star Wars encyclopedia. It said that he was in the human trade. So in this Christmas special, apparently they sanitized his background because he's basically just selling gadgets and novelties and stuff like that to the Wookies and the Empire who were occupying the area. Yes. He comes bearing gifts because he's a friend of Chewbacca's family. Yeah. So he comes bearing gifts. One of the gifts he gives is sort of like a little digital insert to a I guess you would call it a virtual reality hair dryer. Hair dryer? Like a beauty shop hairdryer. Right. He gives it to Grandpa. Itchy Grandpa Itchy sits under this hairdryer, pops in this digital cassette and it can only be described as softcore porn. Apparently the writers who were interviewed for this said that was totally the intent. They were trying to get what amounted to softcore porn that would pass the sensors. That's right. You can't even say it's innuendo. It's too obvious and overt for innuendo. Instead it's just gross. It's really gross. Diane Carroll yes, she is a Vegas staple, shows up and starts basically tantalizing Grandpa Itchy who again, this is Chewbacca's elderly father who now engages in some sort of well, he's watching virtual reality pornography now. And this is a pretty lengthy segment in and of itself. Well, yeah. And she literally says to him, now I can see you're really excited. Yeah, it's pretty rough to watch. Yeah. So then you've got another musical number because also, again, he shutters. Yeah, it's really strange. All right, so there's also a I know it seems like we're jumping around, but it's mind blowing. This is pretty much like blow for blow. Actually, I forgot earlier on in the special there's one of my favorite sequences is when Grandpa Itchy goes over to Lumpy and basically sets up remember the Hologram chess board that they played in A New Hope? Yeah. Basically kind of sets that up and says, Here, just play this. He pushes the button, which is clearly a 1970s cassette recorder. And another, it's like a Cirque du Soleil acid trip gymnast routine happens in front of the kids eyes. And again, it's not like it shows a snippet. They show the entire segments, like, 5610 minutes long of all of these things. So you would think, okay, they've gone to this hologram well, a couple of times. Why not go to it again? Well, they do. To kill more time. While the Imperial Guard is ransacking their house, art Carney, apparently, I guess, is trying to get one of the Imperial Guard the leader, I think, or one of the leaders who looks like somebody from spaceballs, by the way. Very much so. Yeah. And the writer of the Vanity Fair article, by the way, said, this is so incomprehensible. The specialist, George Lucas, didn't even have the Schwarz with them at the time. So, anyway, Ark Carney's distracting this Imperial leader while they're ransacking the rookie's house, Chewbacca's house, with a hologram in this hologram, instead of being an acrobat or Diane Carroll or any kind of porn or anything like that, is Jefferson Starship, and they decide that they're going to play like the sky on Fire, which apparently is about UFOs. It's a little music video, basically. Yeah. It's the predecessor to video Kill the Radio Star, you can tell. And again, it is the whole lengthy song, the whole thing. So every time that somebody's like, we need to escape mentally from what's going on here in our house, let's go into the video world, and they don't cut back and forth. No, it's okay. Here's five minutes of Jefferson Starship performing the song. Yeah. And even the Jefferson Starship guys were like, it's sort of a weird trip. We didn't get it, but we did it right. They gave us some money and some cocaine. Well, probably, we said. Yeah. Chuck I think, though, yet another segment like this is actually widely regarded as the high point of the whole thing. Oh, sure. There is a cartoon, actually. Yeah. Lumpy watches. Yeah. Lumpy, the Imperial Guard is still ransacking my house. I think I'll entertain myself by watching a cartoon on my little I guess it was an iPad. And he watches this cartoon, and it's actually remarkable for a number of reasons. It's the best part of the whole special. Yeah. Generally agreed upon as such. It's not just us. And it introduces Boba Fett. It's the first time Boba Fett ever makes an appearance in Star Wars universe. Yeah. It's actually not a bad and you can't find it in the one version I told you to watch. They removed it for copyright, but you can watch a separate version. Right. You can find it on its own. Yeah. And it's very much reminiscent of, like, the cartoon style of the day, like a key man or something, for sure. It's even a little more artsy than that. Yeah. But it does have a plot that you can follow that makes sense as a Star Wars thing. And it introduces Boba Fett, like you said, and it's actually not bad. It's like Luke and R Two and C Three poke, they crash on a planet or something. Yeah, in Hangu, where you're in it. And it's the first time we see in Darth Vader, first time we see Boba Fett and that he is just doing whatever he can do for money. Right. Like Luke trusts him at first. C three PO is like, you sure you should trust him this quick? And he's like, oh, three PO, you and your non trusting ways. And then it turns out he's selling them out to the dark side. So it's basically boa. Fett is an allegory for George Lucas himself. So the cartoon comes and goes. And that was the thing that came at about the end of the first hour mark. And after that everybody just turned off their television sets. Yeah, I don't remember. Did you watch this when it came up? Yes, I remember watching it, but I don't remember much about it. Like if I made it through at all. I mean, I was seven and it was until ten, so I probably didn't make it through it all. But you're probably disturbed. Who knows? I just remember that I have to ask my brother. He might have a memory of this. I bet he does. I'm sure he met everybody afterward or something like that. It has a picture. Well, he was ten at that point, so Cynicism had become a thing in his life probably by then. Sure. When Cynicism kicks in, I can see Scott holding out the 1415. Yeah, maybe. So, Chuck, the whole thing finally does in. And actually there's a guy, his name is Nathan Rabin, he writes over at the AV club. He had a great quote. He basically said that one of the great redeeming values of this special is that it does eventually end. You know what the first part of the quote is? I'm not convinced the special wasn't ultimately written and directed by a sentient bag of cocaine. Go read his review of the Star Wars Holiday special because he goes on to describe exactly what that must have been like. Development meeting where the bag of cocaine is pacing back and forth talking about what should happen. That's what it feels like, but it doesn't and it ends. It takes this bizarre 2 hours and wraps it up in just a nice bizarre bow. Yeah. So what happens is eventually Han Solo should we say spoiler alert? Eventually Han Solo and Chewy make it to the planet. They park on the far side of the planet because they know the imperial forces are there and the exercise will do two week good. Yeah. So they have to hike over there. They eventually make it back home. They find the storm troopers at their house, their tree hut. Yes. Which is the paintings that set this up. I don't think we mentioned I don't even call them matte paintings. It looks like someone painted something on the wall and they just, like, put a camera in front of it. Pretty much, yeah. So they get back, and Han Solo hides around the corner chewbacca steps in front of his son to protect him. Sure. Han Solo jumps out and the stormtrooper trips over a pile of logs and falls over the balcony and dies in a holiday special. So they wouldn't even not only could he not shoot first with GREETO, but they couldn't even have him wrestle the stormtrooper and throw them off. He trips over a log. Right. And Hans Solo has his hands thrown up like, Wasn't me. It might as well have been a banana peel. But again, this is basically produced by Vogueville, starring Vogue Villians. Why not have the one death take place from basically what amounts to somebody slipping on a banana peel? Exactly. It's a perfect way to end it. So that guy basically represents the end of the imperial threat for the rest of Life Day. And we then see Life Day being celebrated, which is celebrated by lots of wookies assembling in what looks like a giant Olin Mills portrait. And all of them are wearing red robes. Sure. And I know I'm up talking, and it's because my mind is still having trouble wrapping around. And then Princess Leia comes out with C. Three PO. Is Mark Hamill there? The whole gang is there. If I'm okay, the whole gang is there. And then they all gather around to hear a great quote from Princess Leia, which we will read verbatim. This holiday is yours. But we all share with you the hope that this day brings us closer to freedom and to harmony and to peace. No matter how different we appear, we're all the same in our struggle against the powers of evil and darkness. I hope that this day will always be a day of joy in which we can reconfirm our dedication and our courage and more than anything else, our love for one another. This is the promise of the Tree of Life key song. Right. And we should also point out the Tree of Life has never been mentioned up to this point. No idea what that was. It's a sudden appearance at the end. And when you say Q song by Q song, you mean Princess Leia starts singing. Yes. And apparently that was one of the big contingencies on Carrie Fisher being involved. She's going through a phase where she's like I kind of like singing Bruce Valley. He calls it a Joni Mitchell period. Yeah. And she somehow convinced them to let her sing as Princess Leia. She does. And again, I've said that she looks like she's on drugs. This is the point where she really does look like she's on drugs. And it's not just me. Other writers who have written reviews of this. It's really obvious that she possibly smoked a decent amount of pot before she shot this scene. But she sings okay. It's fine. It's just the fact that Princess Leia's singing and actually, Bruce valanche had a really great quote too. He says that she very much wanted to show this side of her talent and there was general dismay because this is not what we wanted Princess Leia to be doing. Anyway. So the whole thing ends with her singing this song about Life Day which is set loosely to the John Williams Star Wars theme. Yeah. So along the way, the director, original director quit. A new director, Steve Binder was hired to finish the job and bring it in. And he did. Over the original $1 million budget, of course. Always he did bring it in. And at this point, George Lucas said he was working on Empire Strikes Back. He didn't know what was going on. He wasn't around for the shoot. No, it wasn't until aired, I think, that he actually saw it. Yes. And it was a travesty, obviously, if you haven't noticed that by now. Critics hated it. Stars fans really hated it. Everybody hated the people who were in it. Hated it. Lucas hated it. Even Harvey Corman secretly hated it. Yeah, even Harvey kyle hated it. Actually, he loved it. But Lucas has been asked over the years about it a lot and he doesn't talk about it much. But in 2005 and I don't buy this for a second he says it was an interview. He said Special from 1978 really didn't have much to do with us. That part is true. I can't remember what network it was even on, but it was the thing that they did. That's a lie. There's no way he doesn't know that was CBS. Yeah. We kind of just let them do it. I believe that it was done by I can't even remember who the group was. But there were a variety of TV guys. I'm sure he remembers a few of them. We let them use the characters and stuff and that probably wasn't the smartest thing to do. But you learn from those experiences. Yeah. I think they even use some of the footage from the movie at the end. It looks like some of the space stuff. Like a highlight reel of the gang. Well, it looked like some of the they had some insert shots of Imperial Cruisers and Tie Fighters and stuff. Remember when Chewbacca, like, leans back and puts his hands behind that's in there? It's like it's just a highlight reel from the movie thing. Like, Be like this. Go see the movie. Well, and also, that means it doesn't match the look of the rest of it at all. Yeah, that's true. Just sort of insert it. They tried. They definitely tried. And George Lucas is totally full of it because in 1987, he told Starlog magazine that the Christmas special would be out on video cassette very soon. Yes. And in 2007, two years after that quote you just read, where he's like, I don't even know what you're talking about. Basically, he apparently considered releasing the Christmas special as a bonus on the DVDs of the first three. Right. But did not. And apparently Kerry Fisher told Lucas that if you want me to do DVD extras commentary. Yes, commentary. Then I want a clean, original copy of the holiday special. Yes. So why go ahead? So I can play at parties when I want people to leave. It's pretty great. It is. And there is one of those clean copies is floating around out there, so you can watch this in its entirety. Some of it, like the cartoon, was removed due to copyright infringement and that kind of stuff. But as the case with the rest of the Internet, you can just go find it elsewhere and piece it together. There's also the original ads that aired in Baltimore that are just fascinating. So those are always fun GM ads where one of the guys who's in quality control, he says, did you watch it? I don't think I saw that one. He goes, we really care about these cars. That's no jive man on the GM. It's serious. They're trying to be hip. Yeah, it's pretty good stuff. Here's my final thought on it. I love it. It does not taint my Star Wars experience or my love for the franchise. Okay. And I'm glad it is out there because it's a fun little stain that shouldn't be taken too seriously. I think it adds to it, actually, because it's campy and awful and I don't know, somehow that enriches the rest of it. I'm with you. You like it? Oh, yeah. I mean, I watched it twice. I wouldn't have made it through the first time. Let me take that back. I'm a pro, so I would have made it through the first time. I wouldn't watch it the second time if I wasn't there wasn't something about it. And I figured out I think the thing that I like the most about it is Lumpy Chewbacca's son, played by an actress named Patty Maloney, who, frankly, is hands down the best actor in the entire thing. Her responses and everything is just awesome. I think my favorite parts are well, there's a great Wilhelm Scream. Yes. I noticed her trips over the law. Jerry would not have noticed it. And then there's a part where all the Wiki dialogue you can't understand, but there's clearly one part where itchy and Lumpy are having exchange where Lumpy, you can make it out because I love you. Yeah, I noticed that, but it's covered up. But someone was like, we have to have at least one exchange where you sort of know what they're saying. Sure. Or they were like, I think she said, I love you, so we have to redo it. And the director was like, no, I want to go and check. There's one other thing that I figured out from watching this. What's that? It's not readily apparent the whole thing is made all the more odd and that there's situation after situation after situation where we, as normal audiences, were trained to expect a laugh track, but there's not a laugh track. Had there been a laugh track, it might have been less bizarre, but the fact that it's missing, it agitates the mind. So it's this whole additional element that it is weird. I never thought about it. There's just weird moments of silence all throughout it. Yeah. Like when Art Carney's doing his thing. Yeah. Telling jokes. Yeah. Okay. I agree with you, Chuck. Don't take things too seriously. I think that's the great lesson in this. Yeah, it's the Lesson of Life Day. It is. And in 2007, Rift tracks great Mystery Science Theater 3000. Guys, Mike Nelson, Bill Corbett, and Kevin Murphy provided audio commentary for the full version of the special. So try and go grab that if you can, as well. Oh, you can. It's on their site because it's great. I think it's, like, $8. And those guys are awesome. They are. At least I think Corbett listens to us. So hey, Corbett, you got anything else? No, I think we did this. There's some good stuff. Go read the Vanity Fair article. Han Solo Comedy Hour. There's a book called How Star Wars Conquered the Universe that has a very interesting chapter about this. That's where we found it. Asserted that George Lucas never said that he would match this thing with a sledgehammer. Right. And there's also an entire website dedicated to it. Star Wars Holidayspecial.com. Yeah. And if you want to know more about the Star Wars Holiday special, we have a ton of Star Wars stuff on how stuff works, by the way. Yeah, we have cool, sort of fun articles about the Death Star and Lightsabers videos with Holly Fry from stuff you missed in history class. Yeah, she knows her stuff. She does. So you can just type Star Wars in the search bar athouseforce.com and it'll bring up some cool stuff for you. Since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. Hey, guys. Just finished listening to the Voyage manuscript podcast. Found it super interesting, especially the theories on its definition or origin. I know Josh mentioned Chuck's theory, but being drug induced is somewhat surprising, or even unlikely, given a language in the manuscript follows linguistic laws only founded in the past 100 years. But if you think about it, it's tough to stray away from familiar structures, especially for something like language. I think back to when I was younger and friends invented their own languages, or even in writing a song or poetry. Creativity can sometimes be limited by what we know, so I just thought I'd contribute that to the conversation. Nice. Thanks. Big thanks for all you guys do. I found the podcast after moving to San Diego in the last few years for some noise around my apartment. So basically we were blocking out noise. We do that and then it's a way to get through traffic on my commute home from work. You guys are far more interesting and enjoyable than television and YouTube videos. So I've listened to hundreds and will continue to listen to hundreds more. Keep on keeping on. That is from Amy J Moffitt. Thanks a lot, Amy. In San Diego, does that mean like place of the Whales in German or something like that? Yeah. If you want to get in touch with us, you can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on Facebook.com stuffyhanew. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@houseupports.com. As always, join us at our home on the web stuffysheno.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetofworks.com. Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school's out, the sun shining, the daylight is longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilguera and Georgia Hard Stark, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. You know you're the best pet mom. When you growl back during playtime, give epic belly rubs and and feed them Halo holistic made with responsibly sourced ingredients plus probiotics for digestive health. Find us at chewy amazonandhalopets.com." | ||
How Asteroid Mining Could Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-asteroid-mining-could-work | There may be trillions of dollars' worth of resources in asteroids, and some scientists believe we could mine nearby asteroids. Join Josh and Chuck as they explore how asteroid mining might work (and why we haven't done it yet). | There may be trillions of dollars' worth of resources in asteroids, and some scientists believe we could mine nearby asteroids. Join Josh and Chuck as they explore how asteroid mining might work (and why we haven't done it yet). | Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:02:27 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2011, tm_mon=6, tm_mday=28, tm_hour=17, tm_min=2, tm_sec=27, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=179, tm_isdst=0) | 28707190 | audio/mpeg | "Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. This is Josh Clark, charles W, chuck Bryant. That makes this stuff you should know. Two things, Josh. I got the Cheek weapon just under the wire on that one. Have you done that every time lately? I've been so harried and frazzled in Pittsburgh, I might have forgotten something we may have forgotten. That explains a lot. Second thing is, we recorded some little promos a few minutes ago, and he called me. Chad. Hey, Chad. That was a little weird. Yeah. Say hey to Chad. Yeah. Hey, Chad. We do have a colleague and close friend named Chad, so that explains it. But that would have been really weird if you just called me. It was weird. It came out and landed on the table and just laid there like a dead fish in the throes of the end of its life. I'm going to start calling you Jock. My guy's name Jock. Have you ever met a guy named Jock? No, but there's been, like, Jock or Jock. There's been movie characters named Jock. Yeah, but they're always like the bully at the ski instructor school or something like that. They're the guy who gets their comeuppance. I don't get come up and I get come up, and it's like, every day. But you shouldn't root for it, I guess, is what I'm saying. I don't think I deserve that. Okay. Chuck. So, Chuck? Yes. Do you remember in the Doomsday scenario episode? What was that? Terror management. Yes. It had nothing to do with terrorism. Right. If you've been putting off listening to that episode because you think it has to do with terrorism nothing. Go back and listen to it. You will be pleasantly surprised. Agreed. It was pretty good. Agreed. We mentioned that I don't know if we mentioned or not, but in a report that we cited, one of the things that these people suggested we needed to do right. To save the planet was to get busy learning how to mine asteroids. Oh, yeah. And I remember reading that, and I was like, wow, that's a good idea. Sure. That sounds awesome. Pricey. It is pricey. And I looked a little more into it. Turns out we had an article on the site written by the esteemed Kevin Bonselor. Yeah, the bonster. And it's interesting. It is pricey. And there's a lot of holes in any plan that's given right now, but it depends on what you want to do with this stuff. Right. Right. Well, there's a huge belt. You want to talk about asteroids first in general, and then we can talk about mining. Sure. Josh an asteroid belt? Well, actually, there's more than one asteroid belt, but there's one main asteroid belt. It's not that far away. No, it's between it's called the main asteroid belt. You weren't just sitting as such. That's right. And it is between Mars and Jupiter. Thank you. I'm sorry for talking over that's. Okay. And there's a lot of theories on how the Earth and the solar system was formed. It depends on who you ask. One of the more popular theories is the nebula theory. And within this theory and this is the solar system, not the universe just stop emailing right now. Go ahead. Did I say universe? No. Okay. Under the nebular theory, Josh, astronomers and physicists think that the universe was I'm sorry, solar system. We're going to get in trouble. No, we're not. Chuck. You're talking about the solar system and you know it. The solar system was a big shapeless cloud of gas and ice dust, and then something set things in motion. Probably an explosion is what they think. Maybe a star exploded, hypothetical. Right. And literally set things in motion. Right? Yes. Into a circular motion. A rotation. Yes. A tight rotation that spun faster and faster and faster and then started collecting this dust flying around and started forming things. Originally plantesimals. That's a great word. And then more matters flying around, colliding. And then the plantesimals get caught up on this in a process called how do you pronounce it? Accretion. Accretion. Accretion. And then they eventually catch more dust and gas and form protoplanets. Right. And then eventually they formed the planets that we all think are super groovy today. So, like planet Hezimols are toddlers, protoplanets are adolescents or tweens. And then you got planets. Yes. Right. And now we kind of diverge. Like, everybody agrees generally who buys into the nebula theory. All that what you just said is correct. Yes. But now we reach a divergence, right? Yes. So there's this big the main asteroid belt that's between Jupiter and Mars is far enough away from the sun. There's a big enough distance between Jupiter and Mars with this asteroid belt in between, that some people think that the asteroid belt got there because there was a proto planet there at one time that was bombarded, maybe hit by something else, some other space junk, like a comet, maybe just shot by some other civilization eons ago. Right. Yeah. And it exploded. And that these bits and pieces of this entered into its own rotation around the sun and was attracted by Jupiter's gravity because Jupiter is so big that it influences the movement of the asteroids, this asteroid belt yes. Basically keeps it in line. So that's one theory for how the asteroid belt got there. There was a proto planet. It's not bad. The other theory is a little more widely accepted, which is that the asteroid belt is nothing more than a collection of that original debris that never formed into a plantesimal and then a protoplanet, and then eventually a planet. Right. And Jupiter, Mars are 555,000,000 km apart, which is a great distance. So that's why they thought originally your first theory, or not yours, but their first theory was, you know, there probably should have been another planet in there right. That got broken up. But the other theory says that, no, it never formed because of Jupiter again, probably because of Jupiter's map. It's just wrecking everything. Yeah. So what we ended up with was a main asteroid belt. And there are tens of thousands of asteroids in these belts. In this belt. The main belt, yes. And most of them are about the size of a pebble. By far the vast majority. I did not know that. And then there's just a handful, and we're talking like a handful in galactic terms. So thousands that are big and then bigger and biggest. And the biggest one is still not that big. Series. C-E-R-E-S right. Yeah. Has a diameter of about 1000. Apparently. Astronomers have figured out that if you put all of the mass, all of these pieces together, every asteroid in the main asteroid belt yeah. If you could put it into a planet or a proto planet, you would still only have a planet about half the size of the moon, or about 1000 the mass of the Earth. So it wouldn't be very big if it were a planet that had broken up. But there's a lot of them flying around, Josh, and the odds of let's just say you had a starship and you wanted to navigate this asteroid field, you know, the odds of successfully doing so, it depends on who you ask. If you were to ask somebody like C Three P O, you'd have one in like, a 6300 and change chance. Maybe no one in a 5301 in a 7337, 20 to one 3721. The odds are very slim if you listen to a robot named C Three PO. Right. But that wasn't in our galaxy. It was in another galaxy far, far away. And maybe I should have said droid instead of robot before the listener mail tumbles in. Yeah. Or perhaps they're the same. I just cover my base. So, Chuck size is not the only differentiator of asteroids in the main asteroid belt. Right, right. They're also more generally classified by the composition of their makeup. Yeah. And if you look at most asteroids, they look like chunks of the moon, just kind of dull and gray. And they might have, like, a pockmark or something like that, but not all of them are exactly alike. They're made up of generally three different types of stuff. Right. That's the name of our show, so that's appropriate. Yeah. We have the C type, the S type, and the M type. M as in Millennium Falcon. I don't think that's right. The C type is about 75% of the known asteroids are of C type. And they are sort of like the sun in composition, but without the hydrogen and helium and some other volatile compounds. Right. So they're not going to start burning. Right. Then you got the stype. It only accounts for about 17%. And they have nickel, iron and magnesium. Right. And then you got the Mtype for Millennium Falcon, and that's the smallest number of asteroids, or the Mtype, and they have nickel and iron inside them. Right. And the C type, where most of them are in the outer ring, the outside of the belt. Right. The Mtype is in the middle, which makes sense. And the Stype is the stands for yeah. Silicatius, like silicon, carbonaceous. Carbon. And Millennium Falcon. Mtype is metallic. The Mtype is the kind that we're probably going to be most interested in harvesting. Right. Yeah. Well, we should talk about why do we want to harvest asteroids for Average Joe out there? And Jane, they might say, what's the big deal? We got all that stuff here on Earth. Well, the point is, well, there's two ways of thinking, right? Yeah. One is that we could go to these asteroids, mine all this stuff because there are precious metals found on their platinum, which is very expensive. Gold. Gold, potentially iron ore, which can be turned into steel and brought back to Earth and sold. Right. So if you happen to be some sort of investor, maybe one who's into space flight or space exploration, like Richard Branson, let's say, sure, you might be interested in setting up a space mining operation. Go get a bunch of platinum. Nobody owns an asteroid, as far as I understand it. If you can make it to that asteroid, you can mine it. It's yours. Is that the slogan? I just coined it. You can make it, you can mine it. Right. So you go get a bunch of plans. You don't have to worry about negotiating with some junta in a developing country for mineral rights or anything like that. You just go to an asteroid and get the stuff and bring it back. Right. And people are thinking about this. Large corporations have plans in motion. If they have ideas, ideas, ideas. Okay. The other and much more reasonable reason to mine an asteroid is to supply a space colony. Yeah. Because then that way you don't have to ferry supplies out of space all the time, which a colony is going to need a lot of supplies, and they're going to need them pretty much constantly. That's really inefficient. That's really expensive. They actually think a lot of smart people actually think that it will be cheaper to set up an asteroid mining operation to basically mine or to be turned into steel for structures and spacecraft and all that stuff. And there's some pretty clever ideas floating around. The bringing them back to Earth idea is largely poopooed. Is it? It is. Because there's so much metal, precious, rare, otherwise here on Earth that we haven't tapped and then we won't tap until the price of them is enough to really go to the trouble of getting these because they're harder to get. Right. But we are running out of some of that stuff. But we're running out of the easy to get stuff. Right. That's the point. Right. So if you take into account that there's a bunch of it there, it's just going to be more expensive. It will still be less expensive to mine the hard to get expensive stuff on earth than to go there and back. Right? True. That's one thing. The other reason that selling it on earth is probably not as good of an idea is you hear numbers bandied about were like, an asteroid is worth $20 trillion. Right? Yeah. Do you want me to read the stat real quick? Sure. According to Jonas Lewis, who is the author and sounds like supporter of asteroid mining, he wrote a book called Mining the sky. He says there are perhaps a million asteroids the size of 1 km in diameter, which would have a mass of about 2 billion tons. And he projects that one of these asteroids could contain, or he says would contain 30 million tons of nickel mill and a half of metal cobalt, 7500 tons of platinum, and the platinum alone would be worth more than $150,000,000,000. Right. And a NASA report valued the NASA NASA valued all of the minerals and or found in these asteroids in the main asteroid belt at worth about 100 billion per each of the 6 billion people on earth. It's funny, when I read that, I was like, well, why do they write it like that? And then I multiplied it out and it was some ridiculous ten to the 26. I was like, oh, that's fine. That's a lot of money. Yeah. But the problem is none of these outrageous and very attractive numbers take into account things like actually mining them, transporting this stuff back, and possibly most importantly, the effect that flooding the platinum market with 150,000,000,000 tons of platinum would totally drop the bottom out of it. Well, that would suck. It would. Because you went to all that trouble and now you're shooting your foot and they're like, hey, guess what? Platinum is not worth anything anymore because we have so much of it. But likely anybody who could finance and undertake an asteroid mining operation would probably set up some sort of like the beers and sit on this stuff and slowly dole it out. Right. Or do the math ahead of time. They wouldn't just jump into it. Willynilly right. But using these things for space colonies is a pretty reasonable idea. And there's a lot of people who are behind us. Yeah. And we should point out, too, that one of the ways that they find out because they're not landing on asteroids and drilling into them now, one of the ways they find out what potentially is inside these asteroids is using something called telescopic spectroscopy. I thought I was going to say it. I thought I was going to nail it. It sounds like a painful procedure, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. What they do is they bounce light off of it and they analyze that reflected light from the asteroid surface, and that through the powers of magic, they can tell what might be inside, like magnesium, water, oxygen, even. Right. And that's important because water can't have space colony without water. Water is key to anything that we want to do. Yes, it is, pretty much, yeah. And you can separate the hydrogen and oxygen and potentially use that as rocket fuel. Right. So water is very valuable on many levels. And this guy who created the book, Mining in the sky, what's his name? Jonas Lewis. Yeah. Mining the sky. What did I say? Mining in the sky. That's a little more fanciful. He has a pretty good idea of how optimum productivity in asteroid could be harvested. Right. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, this is kind of what would it look like in this article? I get the impression it's largely based on Lewis's conception of what it should look like. Right. And one of the ideas that's bandied about is to use robots. Right. Makes sense. It does. You don't have to feed robots, you don't have to water robots, you don't have to pay robots a salary, which makes everything a little bit cheaper. Yes. Although it's expensive to build one. If you can get self replicating robots, if you can create them and you're not afraid of singularity, then all the better. You just launch a few into space and be like, start reproducing and then get to work. Was an alien of mine the original crew for the alien? Wasn't that like? I think so. Were they a mining operation? I believe so. Now that you mentioned it, Chuck, another great idea would be solar powered equipment. Sure. Because think about it, the solar radiation in outer space is not being subjected to the Earth's atmosphere, the deleterious effects of the Earth's atmosphere. So you're getting a lot more cosmic radiation yes. Which will power these things a lot more efficiently, day or night. It is the one, yeah. You should have light equipment. Even though it's pretty much a zero gravity situation, you still got to get it out there. And just lighter is better and more efficient. Well, you just brought up a humdinger of a point. Right. Gravity. Gravity. It's a big one. Then there's two things. There's a lack of gravity on these asteroids, and these asteroids rotate, they move, and sometimes they move pretty fast compared to their size. Right. Some asteroids rotate as often as once an hour. Some take two days, depending on their size. But if you're on an asteroid that's going upside down every half hour, every hour right. It's no good. No, you can fall off. And then if you factor in weightlessness, then you have even greater problems because let's say you undertake a strip mining operation, when you loosen that or it's just going to float right off, you're basically breaking up these pieces that form these planetesimals in other cases, and then protoplanets, you're breaking that stuff up. And some of the asteroids, it's not just like a chunk of rock. Some asteroids are less dense than others. There's a pretty sizable asteroid out there. I can't remember which one it is that is thought to have about the density of water. Right. But it's solid material. It's just not packed together. So the weightlessness, rotation, and possible low density of some of these asteroids is going to make this a little harder than you would think. But they got some ideas. They do have some ideas, especially to take into consideration. Wait listness, right? Yeah. Well, one thing and this all sounds very rudimentary, but it makes sense they thought about using a big canopy to collect the stuff as it flies off. They have considered the idea of using rocket boosters to keep the asteroid from spinning and level it out. I saw one idea they had was to use magnets called rake magnets. So they would literally just sort of in the shape of a rake, a giant magnet that would comb the asteroid. That's very smart. And whatever loose metals were on top would stick to the magnet. That would suck. To lose the rake magnet in this space, though, it just floats off, and you're like, man, we lost another rake magnet, and it was $20 billion plus. The other point, too, with gravity is what zero gravity taketh away, she also giveth because it makes everything much lighter and easier to tear. You like that. I mean, gravity a woman. I guess everything's lighter. So you won't have to have, like, the massive train to lift the equipment, because zero gravity, almost zero gravity, right? Yes. And ferrying back and forth between the asteroid belt and, say the Moon, let's say we put a colony on the Moon is going to take less fuel. Yeah, we use up a substantial amount of fuel getting into outer space. Once we're in outer space, we use way less. Sure. And then also, the other cool thing is, once you're set up up there, you can mine an asteroid, and then you can take it for all it's worth and just move to the next asteroid. You don't have to go back and forth and back and forth. And that, too, raises kind of a point. Like, I know this is a very nascent field in the fact that it's not in existence yet, but nobody's talking about what effect this could possibly have. If we start basically just mining an asteroid belt, like nothing. Let's say we remove all the iron ore from the main asteroid belt. What happens to, say, the rotation? Do they start flipping out? Yes. There's no talk about even going to the main asteroid belt right now. They're talking about just getting ones that have kind of wandered away, called Near Earth Objects, near Earth asteroids, because a lot closer to the Earth is much better, and sometimes they're closer than the Moon is. Yeah. So it'd really be easy to ferry to the Moon, right? Yeah, we landed on the Moon. But I can't help but wonder if eventually, in a century, we ramp up in the main asteroid belt, like really undertaking mining operations. It'll have some sort of horrible effect that no one figured out until it was too late. I'll start spinning into Earth or something. Still, though, it's a good idea. It's probably a necessity if we start to colonize space. Yeah, but don't let anybody tell you it's an easy idea. Right. For example, one last example of how difficult it can be. And I very much recommend people go read Ronald Brakes, the great space mining con, I think is what he called it. He poopoos it. Right? He poopoos bringing it back to Earth. And he's got a lot of great examples. Okay. He says using it for space is a good idea, but one of the things he points out is when we go and get ore, right? Say iron ore yeah. We get them from veins. There's, like, a vein there, and we can get a bunch at once. Right. That's because of Earth's biogeochemical processes that help collect or, like, ore into the same place. The Earth has a magnetic field. All of this stuff contributes, taking a bunch of iron ore and putting it together. Asteroids have not been subjected to these processes. Right. So we don't know if it's the same. It could be completely spread out. Right. There might be a bunch in there using what, telescopic? What? Spectroscopy. Okay, we know there's a bunch there, but we don't necessarily know in what kind of density that occurs. So you've sunk $100 billion into getting up there to find out that you can't use the same processes that you do on Earth? Basically. I think they probably just do exploratory missions first before sinking in the whole 100 billion, maybe. So we'll find out what Richard Branson is made of in the next year or two. Okay? Yeah. I bet he listens to this. So we got a bunch on the site. You got anything else? No, I like these little theoretical musings every now and then. Oh, I've got one. The Kuiper belt. The Mel Kuiper Belt. So there's another asteroid belt way larger, that goes basically out to the frontiers of the solar system. The edges. Yeah. And the cool thing about this, the Kuiper belt, is that it was proposed by Gerard Kuiper in he's like, there's an asteroid belt out there, and this is probably roughly where it is and how wide it is and how dense it is. And in 1992, it was confirmed by observers who saw that observers from other planets, I guess. And he said, I'm naming it after me. No, I think he was probably dead. What I'm saying is, he said, mathematically, he said, there's an asteroid belt out there. And then 40 years later, they're like, he was right. Wow. There's one right there. It's pretty cool. They should have named after him Kuiper Belt. I think it will happen. I think we have pillaged the Earth, and we will soon be pillaging the solar system. Likewise. Okay. Do you want to learn more about asteroids? Type in that word. It's going to bring up a lot of cool articles. We combine to how asteroid mining will work and how asteroid belts work. And you can type that into the handy search bar at Howstep works.com, which brings up listener mail. Josh I'm going to call this listener mail from my friend Ryan. Is this legal? Yeah. I don't think you can do this. He sent us a legit email and I was like, you know what, dude? I'm going to read this. I'm going to plug your band while I do it. Oh, really? Yeah, but that's not the reason because this is actually pretty cool. Okay. Hey, dude. He didn't say everyone. He was just emailing me. All right. While mowing the yard earlier today, I listened to your podcast and how to Start Your Own Nation. Great job, as always. I took a particular interest in checking that one out because a couple of years ago, I produced a segment for a TV show, g Four Underground, that never aired on the subject of micronations. And I ended up researching many of the topics you covered on the show. In particular, you talked about the sovereign nation outside of Reno, the Republic of Molasses. I spent an entire day with His Excellency President Kevin Bawl in Molasses, which is actually just a house and a housing addition in a little desert town. And he sent me a picture of him with his dude, and he's dressed like on March. Sadie yeah, he's got, like, the sash and everything. You can recognize it by the Molassian flag flying in the front yard and miniature cannon replicating the front door. I kind of knew going into it that he wasn't very serious about the whole thing, but definitely realized upon arrival that he and the other members of the micronation culture are all just big role playing nerds. My first clue was an enormous collection of Star Trek memorabilia. I interviewed neighbors who just described me as a nice fellow who's just a little eccentric, and I've attached the picture and maybe I'll put that on Facebook. We'll see if Ryan mines. Totally. But Ryan is in a band called Debate Team and they are awesome. And I have their album, and it's like, self produced, like the truest of indie styles and putting out your own music. And Ryan's like an old friend, and we were PA together, and now he's, like, directing stuff and doing this, and we're all very proud of each other. You should leak his album on our Facebook page. I have posted something before. I'll post it again, but if you want to check out facebook. Comdebateteam. It's good powerpop. It's just awesome. I love it. I'm a fan. What's? Another example of power, Pop? I don't know. The drummer for his band is also the drummer from okay, Go. Are they Power Pop? I would say okay Go is probably better. I can see that. I like them, but it's not like they're like them. Their debate team is their own awesome thing. Let me change that. I like that one song that they had the first video for, which was The Treadmills. Yeah, but those dudes are, like, killing it on the music videos. Yeah. And they're like internet gods and everything. Yeah. Cool guy. The Strokes are sort of power poppy. Yeah, okay. Yes, totally. You might call them rock and Roll rooney. Rooney, yeah. I don't know those guys. Are they good? They're all right. Yeah, they're pretty good. They are. They have some very catchy teams. All right, well, if you like Power Pop, we want to hear all about it. We do want to hear about it, Josh, but we got to let people know about something that we're doing. Oh, yeah. We have a next weekend, the 4 July weekend. You're going to be able to listen to us on SiriusXM Channel 104, Channel 150. They're doing a stuff You Should Know america stuff You Should Know about America Weekend. And they are playing, like, 20 of our podcasts over the course of the weekend on a little pop up channel. And it's going to be punctuated with some little shorts from our friends at Stuff You Missed in History Class, Deblina and Sarah, who are awesome, and also our live show that we are recording in New York on July 1 with some very special friends from The Onion. Right. And potentially other special guests. They're going to play that several times. Dude, we're basically all over Channel 104 on SiriusXM for, like, a whole weekend, pretty much. It's going to be pretty awesome. And you can also listen to stuff you should know now on WFMU 911 in the New York metro area and 901 in the Hudson Valley. Right. That's right. Fridays from seven to 08:00 p.m., you can support us on the radio. And they are cutting together some of our archives in a new and exciting ways. So there you have it. That's it? Yeah. If you want to send us an email about what power Pop yeah. Or if you're a member of a Power Pop band, sure. Shoot it to stuff. Podcast@howstuffworkscom. Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff From the Future. Join housetopworks staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer, school's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime four days. That's where true crime podcasts on. Amazon Music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid My Murder and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today." | ||
c36656fe-5460-11e8-b38c-f398eb54e082 | SYSK Selects: Duels - A Guide to Throwing Down the Gauntlet | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/sysk-selects-duels-a-guide-to-throwing-down-the-ga | Pretty much everything you know about duels is true - it's a challenge to violence to defend honor. But did you know the U.S. Navy used to publish detailed guidelines in its midshipmen's handbook? Learn all there is to know about dueling in this classic episode. | Pretty much everything you know about duels is true - it's a challenge to violence to defend honor. But did you know the U.S. Navy used to publish detailed guidelines in its midshipmen's handbook? Learn all there is to know about dueling in this classic episode. | Sat, 13 Jul 2019 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2019, tm_mon=7, tm_mday=13, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=194, tm_isdst=0) | 37766902 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, everybody. Chuck here with a little Saturday select for you. I challenge you to listen to this episode on duels because the name is cool and the topic is cool. It is Duels Colon, a Guide to Throwing Down the Gauntlet. Here's a little spoiler for you. The gauntlet was a glove. It's for March 2012, and I hope you dig it. Welcome to stuff. You should know a production of Iheartradios how stuff works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me is Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and you got stuff you should know. anguard. Yeah, cliche. It means touch in French. I thought this was one of the funniest openings of an article ever. By the way, did you like it? I thought that very first part was hysterical when I read it. Well, you know what? It just so happens I don't have an intro for this one, so I think you might want to read it. Should we just read it? Yeah. Ed Grabinowski never lets us down. No, he's good. The Grabster. This is how duels work, ladies and gentlemen. Pistols at dawn. The challenge is issued. To turn it down would leave you marked as a coward for life. You meet at the chosen spot, facing your opponent at a distance of 20 paces. Your dueling pistols are loaded. One or both of you could be severely wounded or killed. Today. Doctors are standing by them in the damage, if possible, while your friends eye each other wearily. Why is this all happening? Because you made fun of his hat. So good. That is about right, too, as we find out in the rest of the article. Yeah. Well done, Grabster. It's not much of an exaggeration. Apparently, throughout the history of people, or ever since we've had swords, at least men have challenged other men to duels and other people have died as the result. Yeah, I thought this is a great article. I thought so, too. This is definitely something I knew, like, virtually nothing about. Yeah, officially, me, too. But I did find out that things like Wild West duel shoot out very close to reality. Sure. They apparently happened to coincide at a time when dueling was very popular in America, and that's all it was. It was the old west version of Pistols at dawn. And as an aside, probably the best dueling movie of all time. The quick and the dead. The quick and the dead. That's exactly right. If you have not seen that pause, pause this podcast. Get off your treadmill, put your ice cream down, whatever you're doing, go watch The Quick and the Dead and then come back and resume this podcast. Yeah. You know what I always appreciate about that movie was that there were how many quick draw shootouts? Like 500. Let's say there were ten in the movie. Let's say 500. Each one of them was different. He filmed them different and had a different feel, like I just thought that was so creative. Like, each one had its own little flavor. That's our Sam Rabie. He's so good. Man. I love that movie. He's got something new coming out, doesn't he? Mr. Hollywood Guy? Come on. He's got something coming. He's not doing the new Spiderman. I don't know. I think he might be working on another Evil Dead, like a modern remakey uptake. Or he might just be producing that. If he does that, that'll be the second time he has remade the Evil Dead. Evil Dead too, is a remake of The Evil Dead. Pretty much. Okay. Alright. So Chuck, duel for anybody who doesn't know, is basically a one on one battle, as is evidenced by the etymology. And apparently we said entomology before. I don't know. I don't buy it. Like, some eleven year old kid called us out on that. I think he might have misread us because I definitely think the difference between etymology and entomology etymology. Etymology. The word dual is, I think, Latin. Right. Duello. Yeah. I'm sorry. duellum, which is a contraction of duo two and Bellam war, obviously antebellum pre war. Oh, okay. I never realized that. Yes. Okay. But duo, too. It's basically a war between two individuals is a duo. Yeah. And it's been around for quite a long time. I guess we should probably just get to the meat of it first. Let's talk about duals, and then we'll talk a little bit about the history. Yeah, let's just throw down the gauntlet. So somebody does throw down the gauntlet, and the gauntlet is a glove. And when you throw down a gauntlet at the feet of somebody that was at the height of dueling enough to issue a challenge, that's on, you and I are going to try to kill one another for a little bit. Or not necessarily. We'll get to that. When you went to a duel, you had a second, which basically was the guy who came along, a friend, a trusted individual. What's your wingman? It was like the best man at your death. He was there to help you prepare your firearms or your sword. He was there to basically make sure you weren't ambushed. He was supposedly a neutral third party. A second? Supposedly, yeah. And supposedly we would try to talk it down and diffuse it. That was the first role of the second. But I don't know how much I buy that. And Ed even points out, like, more times than not, the second would actually fight the other second. And sometimes there was third and fourth that would fight the other third and fourth. Right. I looked at this as it's the same as, like, a bar fight today. There's always usually like a friend nearby that he's got your back, but it's really between you and that jerk. But if things get out of hand, he like, gets a beer bottle all of a sudden. Then you get involved and his friend gets involved. So it's sort of like that, I think. Yeah. If he tries to get in the middle of the two things, he ends up like River Phoenix at the end of Stand By Me and takes a knife to the neck and dies in a bar. God, that was so sad. It was saddest ending or River Phoenix's character, let's say, since he really died, then we should point that out. He had to say it ending in real life as well. Yeah, big time. So, Chuck, when you declare a duel, you could use any weapon, but for a very long time, basically all you have available to you is a heavy sword. Yes. And you had to use the same weapon and depending on what code of dueling you were following, the challenger or challenge would pick that weapon. Right. And you mentioned dueling codes. There were several dueling codes and the one that became the most widespread was the dueling code of 1777, the Irish code, which is cited extensively in this article. And I believe you're prepared to give everyone a treat and read some of the rules from the code. Yeah. The code duello replaced the Floss duelaium, which was in the 1400. The Il duel in the Germans had their own dueling code, which it was set by the Fecsulin dueling schools. I imagine theirs was just because they were German. It was probably a little more hardcore. Sure. Although everything was pretty hardcore back then. It was. But if you look at the dueling codes, a lot of the rules appear to be set up so that you don't kill the other person. The whole point of a duel is not to kill the other person, it's to regain honor. Dueling is the result of an insult. When somebody insults you and you challenge them to a duel, you're seeking to say, I'm going to get my satisfaction from you. Basically, you punked me out in public and that can't happen. That's another way to put it, because I would be looked at as a coward and that would be a knock on my family's and my ancestors honor, even. Yeah. You had to protect the honor of your ancestors backwards and forwards in space or time on either side of you. That's right. As I was saying, some of the rules are intended to prevent harm or injury. Like, you see people facing away from each other and turning and firing. That is designed so that when you're using a clumsy 17th century firearm, the chances of you hitting anybody but bystander way off in the distance is pretty low. Yeah. From what I gathered after reading a handful of these rules is that the code duelo encouraged injury but not death. What they didn't encourage was purposefully firing in the air, as sometimes happened when neither one of them really wanted to get hurt. They didn't really like that because that sort of takes all the chutzpah out of the duel to begin with. You very excited to read these rules, aren't you? Jumping ahead a little bit? No, we're not there yet. Okay. But one of the rules was that the winner could pretty much do whatever they wanted once you've won the duel. If, let's say, there's an injury, you could kill them if you wanted. Yeah. You could just humiliate them if you wanted. You could be a good guy and say, you know what? My honor has been assuaged. It's great. So let me give you a hand up, little buddy. And you're a good person for doing that. I would say so. I could see you totally doing that, Chuck. There's no way I would have been doing to begin with. You could also cut the other person's head off after finishing them off, or maybe finish them off by cutting his head off and then posting it in a public place. Right. I said also that the Irish code is very widespread, so much so that this, to me, is one of the facts of the podcast. Agreed. It was reprinted in full as part of the Midshipman's Handbook of the US navy up until 1862, when the Navy outlawed or banned dueling among officers. But up until that time, it was like, hey, you're probably going to get in a duel at some point in time. And here's what the Navy says about that. And what the Navy says is what the Irish say women typically did not duel, and when they did, it says in the article here, it was viewed on as an oddity and a strange, amusing spectacle, which, like foxy boxing is today. Well, it's kind of like the first cat fights. Yeah. Is that sexist? Totally. But I mean, that's apparently what they viewed duels among women as. It was an amusement for men because women are just so stupid. Right. Except if you are dumb enough to make that kind of judgment about Lamon yeah. You probably would have had your head cut clean off of your body. She was a genuine duelr swordswoman, and depending on who you talk to, it's either her father, who trained her, or a lover who was a great fencer. However, I think she liked the ladies as well, because later in her life, after performing in bars and dressed as a man, but not to, like, say, hey, I am a man, I think it was just like, hey, I'm more comfortable in these clothes. It's easier to move in these clothes. Exactly. She dug up the corpse of a dead nun, put it in a dorm room, set that room on fire to fake her own death so she could escape the convent with her female lover. Yeah. Lamo Pen. She was a pretty progressive rock and chick back then. Yeah, she was pretty cool. And that was after she retired from the opera, early 1700s. Yeah. So she was pretty cool. No foxy boxing there? No, I don't even know what that is. I haven't seen that. It's exactly what it sounds like. All right. Yeah. It was kind of big in the, I think, the 80s, maybe the just women boxing one another, but not really. It's incredibly sexist. There were a lot of fights at my high school. I mean, not like a lot. Like it was the roughest school, but it always struck me, even as a youngster, that when guys would get in a fight, it was always horrific. And then when girls would get in a fight, the dudes would be sitting around laughing at it. I saw a girl fight in high school once that was really disturbing. It was more disturbing than any guy fight I've ever seen. Well, because girls fight dirty. Yeah, both of these girls were fighting very dirty, and it was really horrible. I think the assistant principal jumped in and got smacked around and ended up backing off. Wow. Yeah, it was a bad fight. So there was nothing funny about that one? No, not at all. Is there anything funny about anybody fighting? No, I don't think so. Unless it's like, I don't know, clowns. Yeah, clowns fighting. Yeah, that'd be funny. Clown fight. That's hilarious. Unless one of them dies. That's right, Chuck. So we mentioned that seconds are in charge of issuing apologies. Yeah. And you can't just go over and say, hey, man, guys, sorry, he'll never do it again. Can he have his gauntlet back? That just doesn't work. There's standards. There's rules to issuing an apology. And as I understand, you're prepared to explain the rule from the code duello for issuing apology. I think even it's rule number one. Very first rule, as it should be. Let's hear it. The first offense requires the first apology. Though the retort may have been more offensive than the insult. A tells B he is impertinent, et cetera. B retorts that he lies, yet a must make the first apology because he gave the first offense. And then after one fire, b may explain away the retort by a subsequent apology. Very nice. Thank you. Thank you very much. So basically, no matter how bad the report is from the first insult yes. Whoever insults the other person first has to apologize first. Right. Then they shoot at one another, and then the second person can apologize. You also have rules to whether or not or how an apology can be accepted, or if an apology, a verbal one, is even worth anything at all what situation that is, won't you? I point you to rule number five. Josh. Azure blue is strictly prohibited under any circumstances among gentlemen. So no hitting, evidently. Yeah. No. Or if you do, that's it. Yeah. There's no going back. No verbal apology can be received for such an insult. The alternatives, therefore, the offender handing a cane to the injured party to be used on his own back at the same time, begging pardon firing on until one or both are disabled or exchanging three shots and then asking pardon without proper of the cane. Right. So if you wanted apology after smacking someone in the face but you didn't want the cane, you guys had to shoot at each other three times or I imagine maybe deal three blows with a sword. Right. But by this time, 1777, firearms were all the rage for dueling. Sure. Which we'll get to. So you've got a duel, all the apologies have been either not offered or rejected and it's time for the duel. There's a certain etiquette, right? Yeah. You mentioned that there's rules against not really doing this wholeheartedly like, if you're going to get into a duel, you have to do it wholeheartedly as far as the code Duolo is concerned. But this is also one of the more frequently broken rules because most people who are in duels didn't really want to die and they probably didn't want to kill the other person either. Because I imagine when you're in a duel with somebody and that's your reality at that moment. And it's not just some guys in powdered wigs out in an apple tree and it's a wood engraving or wood carving. Right. But it's really what's going on in your world right then. Yeah. I'm sure you are acutely interested in not killing and not dying at that moment. Yeah. I would have applied them with alcohol. I would have been the guy being like, come on, man, you would have made a great second, like, can we just have this ale here and talk it over and laugh about it? Right. It's funny, right? Yeah. But they took it way more serious than so there's this rule that says, man, if you're going to get in a duel, you have to do it all the way. It's called rule 13. No dumb shooting or fighting in the air is admissible. In any case, the challenger ought not to have challenge without receiving a finch, and the challenged ought, if he gave off, to have made an apology before he came on the ground. Therefore, children's play must be dishonorable on one side or the other and is accordingly prohibited. Very nice. So you've got all these we need strickland. No, I think this is great. Okay. He's loving it. So you've got this rule that says you do this all the way, but that's not necessarily how a lot of duels worked. Guys would agree ahead of time, like, hey, we're actually going to do the duel, but we'll both shoot into the air. Yeah. You don't want to die. Do you want to die? Which, by the way, is what happened, is how Alexander Hamilton died at the hands, the treacherous Aaron Burr. Let's go ahead and talk about it. Well, they were political rivals. They were in a law firm together and that's where they first learned to hate one another. And then they were in a very small country at the time. They were very big fish in the same small pond. And things got out of hand. And I can't remember who challenged to do a duel. Do you? Yes. It was a series of insults. And this was at a time where the losing presidential candidate would become vice president. Yeah. Which could you imagine that these days? Yeah, that'd be pretty awesome. Kind of I think it'd be nice. It would temper things. Well, I guess it was for balance of power. Sure. I don't know if it would work or it was constellation prize. That's true. So they disliked each other. There were a bunch of insults in burr challenged Hamilton in Wehawken, New Jersey, and they're varying accounts on what happened. But what we do know that happened. Hamilton got shot. Byrd didn't. Whether or not Hamilton fired in the air as a good guy, that's what I heard. Or got hit and was like and fired up in the air. Never is debatable. Alexander Hamilton was a crack shot. He had great timing. He had catlike reflexes. Erinburgh shot Hamilton, hamilton fired in the air. Aaron Burr was actually, I think, arrested for murder, wasn't he? He was charged with murder and basically acquitted in the end. But this is a time when it was kind of on the outs. They were beginning to outlaw dueling anyway, and it ruined his career, basically. It ruined his political career. From that point. People are like, who's on the 20? And by 20, of course, I mean who's on the ten? Yeah, the $10 bill. Jackson's on the 20, but Alexander Hamilton is on the ten. Stop emailing. You got nothing but 20, though, in your role. I can't even tell you he's on the text. Yeah. And did they even make dollar bills? So, Chuck, let's get the seconds, which, again, I want to say that before I got ahead of ourselves, I'm sorry. Also, you should never duel at night. The only time when you can legitimately hold a duel at night, meaning that the same night of the offense was when the person was going to be leaving town before yeah, day break. No need to even read that one. That speaks for itself and that makes good sense. Basically, their cooler heads prevail generally the next day, which is a great role in marriage and life. I'm always a big fan of sleep on it. Why don't we sleep on it? Yes, you're absolutely right, buddy. But sometimes the wife will still wake up just as angry the next day. It happens. But most times the worst is waking up in the middle of the night angry. Yeah, that's pretty bad when the rage is seething? So, Chuck, do you want to talk about seconds? Yes, seconds. They had very specific rules for the role of the second. They had to take care of the guns in the same way and load in the presence of one another. I can't shake the feeling that we're both in trouble. They would have to, like I said, load the guns together and in front of each other. And the gun was already agreed upon. They have a smooth bore. Yeah. And I think the rifle bore would be a more accurate, longer distance shot. So they said, we can't use that. Yeah. It's like shot putting a football or throwing it in a tight spiral, which one's going to get further with more accuracy. Exactly. That makes sense. So you want to load in the presence of one another. Yeah. Saying, look, see, the bar smooth, and we're doing it right here so everyone can see it. 3rd, 4th. Everyone pay attention. And we also mentioned how they are bound to offer or to try to get an apology generated to avoid a dual. They're supposed to according to the code. Yeah. And then rule 25, if they can't come to any kind of resolution and the seconds clearly are eyeballing one another, like, oh, dude, you're going down too. It's on between us. They had rules for that as well, like rule 25, where seconds disagree and resolve to exchange shots themselves. It must be at the same time and at right angles with their principles. I don't get the right angles thing. How is that physically possible? I don't know. I took that to mean they shoot from the same angle. That would be parallel, not right angle. Well, I don't think it meant right angle in the geometric sense. I think it meant the correct angle as in the same angle. Maybe I'm wrong. You think it meant, like geometry? I think the authors had put in a full day by the time they got to this role. Or maybe at right angles, it meant if these two are shooting here, then they have to shoot there so there's no crossfire coming at them. Okay. Yeah. So they make a square. I don't know. We'll have to look into that. And then how do you know when a dual is over, especially when it doesn't necessarily result in the decapitation of one? When you cut somebody's head off and post it on a pike in the town square, the duel is over. It's over. But there's also more nuanced endings possible. Right. Rule number five if swords are used, mr. Trebek, the parties engage until one is well bloodied, disabled or disarmed or until after receiving a wound and blood being drawn. The aggressor begs pardon unless the person who's disabled insists that it's only a flesh point. Right. He does have a did you notice his Monty Python reference in here? No. That's definitely not the only article with the Monty Python reference from him. What is it? Well, later on, he's talking about how nobles weren't allowed to work and they made money off of rent from their huge tracks of land. That's for money by then. I don't remember that part. You don't remember that she's got huge tracks of land. I don't remember. Yeah, it's a good part. Good for you for noticing that. Sure. With the Grabs, he's always sneaking them in. And also, any wound sufficient to agitate the nerves yeah. Or makes a handshake must end the business of the day. I mean, that's kind of loose, if you ask me. Yeah, but that does mean that the dual is over. So if you want to know more, if you want to know all the rules, you can get your hands on a pre 1862 US. Navy Midshipman's handbook. Apparently PBS has all of them as well. On frontline site, we don't. I'm sorry, but Chuck dueling was for a very long time the pursuit of nobles, right? Yes. As a matter of fact, it was used to differentiate nobles from common people. Like in a lot of medieval European countries, commoners weren't allowed to duel. It was illegal. Yeah. Before guns, a lot of commoners couldn't even afford swords because swords are expensive to make and even more expensive than firearms once they came around. So a lot of them couldn't duel in the traditional sense. Although the Grabster points out that there were plenty of dual like circumstances among commoners, too. It was probably just the bar fight. You just can't let the local fuzz find out what you're doing. Yes. And noblemen were expected to duel. Right. And the whole point of dueling was the protection of honor. And honor as a concept, as the Grabster points out, is not what we think of it today. I didn't know this. Honor is basically like if you are rich, if you have a title, if you are a member of an important family, you have honor automatically. It's attached to you. Yes. It doesn't mean that you were a good, upstanding guy. It means, like, this is your station in life. You're blessed basically by being born rich and white. Exactly. It's like the 1%, and you have honor. And it's fragile. Extremely. At all times. It's prone to be insulted at the drop of a glove, especially. Very nice, but even the drop of a hat. And not only is your honor at stake, but the honor of your family for generations forward, generations backward, and any schmo of noble rank. I imagine if a commoner came up and insulted your family, you just cut their head off right there. And there's no duel. It's just death for the commoner. Right? Yeah. But if another person of nobility comes up and insults your family honor, then you say it's on. I challenge you to a duel at this point, and you've mentioned cowardice already, but at this point, the other person has a choice. Very socially speaking, they don't really have a choice, but they do have a choice. They can either accept the duel or they can be a coward. And in the same vein, the person whose honor is insulted has a choice. They can either issue a challenge to a duel or they can let it slide. Either way, if you let it slide or you sure could do it, you're a coward. And that was a big deal back then. Yes. It wasn't just like Jimmy's assistant, because he wouldn't fight me at school, which haunts you for the rest of your life, you know what I'm saying? That's true. But your family was insulted. You could lose your honor. Like, they would take it away legally sometimes they could publish an account of it to the church, and you know, in the church, they're going to tell everybody, coward church. It was not an abstract thing. Kings who would not uphold their honor could lose their noble ranking. They would just take it away. And you could actually be punished and excommunicated and your voting rights revoked for cowardice. Serious stuff back then. You could also be imprisoned and killed, and it's just generally bad things fed the dragons, probably. I don't know if you could be killed. I just said that. Well, if the dragon's eating you, you wish someone would kill you. Good point. So I think probably this whole code, this whole dueling code and how refined it became was out of the frequency of dueling, right? Yeah. Apparently, like you said, these people sat around with their huge tracks of land. Well, they couldn't work. No. Like, you couldn't work if you wanted to work. You couldn't if you were of noble blood. Yeah. I mean, you literally could not hold a job even if you found you were really good at something. I really like blacksmithing making these shoes, these horse shoes. You're a nobleman, you have to make your money off of rent. So the end result of that is after a lot of sitting around in fox hunting and mead drinking, you get a little bored. And so dueling kind of became a sport for bored nobleman. These young guys are like, well, got nothing better to do, so let me go down to the pub and throw down the gauntlet on someone. Or just be really easily irritable to where anything that happens to me, you bumped me in the bar and like, all right, it's on. Or you looked at my lady. That was a big one. Yeah. The other aspect of it wasn't just boredom. It was also that you were the better person. In a field where there is a definite set hierarchy, earls are equal to earls and dukes equal to dukes and equal to viscous. Right. Viceroy is equal to viceroyce. That whole kind of thing. I could continue. Please do. I can't continue. You call my bluff, but this is a way to differentiate yourself among your rank by saying, I challenge you to do and I won. And the reason that differentiates me is not only am I the winner, but it means that God favors me. Yeah. And apparently that was used. It was the predecessor. To the legal systems we had today. Well, yeah, let's get to this. This is the commoners would duel. Early on, in the 11th and 12th centuries, you would have trial by combat. Sometimes it was like dunking a witch. Like, if the witch floated, she was a witch, and then she got burned out of the stake. If she drowned, then she wasn't really a witch, and she was pure of heart. So if you win the duel, then you are, in fact, innocent of your crime. Yes. Because God favored the winner of the duel, and more importantly, the guy who accused you is now dead. So you must be innocent. Although you may also fight a court appointed, really professional duelist. That's awesome. And I can't imagine beating that guy. Yeah. What was the most guys in the Mad Max Three? Master Blaster. Yeah. Master Blaster. You fight Master Blaster? Yeah. You killed him. Boy, what a reveal. That was when they took off his mask. Yeah. Terrible stuff. A lot of times, if you were good at dueling, you would just use it to get out of stuff like, hey, I don't want to pay this bill, so let's duel about it, and that'll settle it. And I know I'm really good with the sword, so you don't stand a chance. Yeah. It's all over. Not just debts, but also, like, if you had a political rival that later became really big in Missouri. Yes. If you wanted somebody land anything, anybody who had something you wanted or who you owed something to, you could just challenge them to a dual, kill them, and they're problem solved. This is one of the reasons why I think the Noble Classes were eventually removed from the face of the Earth. Well, you mentioned Missouri. Between 1816 and 1824, the Elect territorial elections became so fraught with dueling to get rid of your rival that the first governor of California, Peter Burnett, said peter Berg? No, Peter Burnett said it became desirable to kill off certain aspirants to get them out of the way. So in Missouri, you would just kill the dude before election day, and you're all set. Yeah. Can you imagine? Like Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney dueling one another. No, I couldn't. So you've got evolving from an early legal system sure. To the board Noble Classes, to the elimination of political rivals. And it comes from even further back than that, though. Like, the duel, the idea of one person battling another person in some sort of combat in a formal, rule driven way, grabs her, goes back to jousting competitions in the Middle Ages. I think you can go back to gladiatorial combat. Sure. Further back than that. But in Europe and Western Europe. Northwestern Europe. It came from Jousting, right? Yeah. And it makes sense to me. Like you said, the joust is pretty much a duel on horseback. Then you had the chivalric code, which sort of lines up with the code of the duel. And also you skipped right past what to me is one of the facts of the podcast. Oh, no, I didn't. That was coming, but go ahead. You go ahead. Well, when Nights only noblemen were allowed to be knights and to joust against one another. So they would raise their visor at the beginning to say, hey, look at me, I'm not descending along my assistant, who's a lot better at this than I am. As Heath Ledger did. As Heath Ledger did. What was that? First night. Yeah. That's a good movie. That's right. So they would reveal their identities. And that Josh, as you know, was evolved into the military salute years later. He had the lift of the visor evolved into the hand, I guess. Yeah. Pretty cool. Very cool. Eventually, though, firearms came around. Sure. And they found that these incredibly heavy suits of armor that can protect you even from a joust generally are no match for this musket. The smooth board musket with terrible aim and accuracy, which covers you. It'll kill you. Yeah. In our Nights podcast, that was kind of the end of the night. Exactly. It was also what the end of Samurai had to do with the demise of Samurai as well. Yeah. Gun ruined everything. Yeah, well, they changed everything for the worse. And then as a result, no more need for a heavy sword. Right. Because there's no need for armor or armor doesn't work. No heavy swords. We started doing evolution and sword making and you have at least in Europe, I think Japan already had far lighter, more better swords. Right. But in the west, the evolution of swords led to the sport of fencing as a direct result of dueling and the loss of armor. And it became more contest, especially after the Italian said, I don't want to die. Let's put a little rubber tip on the Internet thing. My sister was in defense. Really? College. Yeah. Interesting. My older sister. I've always wanted to try that. Well, I think you should go to town. You can take classes, right? Totally. I think it's a kind of expensive startup. Sure. Like the whole get up and a decent sword and all that, but a foil in the vernacular. But I'm sure once you got all that stuff, you're fine. Yeah. That would end up being like my venture into ice hockey, though. I would just end up having a closet full of gear really forget to use. I didn't know you're into hockey. I was at one point when? Mid twenty s. Okay. I learned whole gear. Yeah. I learned how to ice skate pretty well. And then me and all my friends got hockey gear and we were like, hey, let's play nice. And that was pretty much where it ended there, you know? Yeah. Pistols, though. Josh, when did you get into pistols? Well, no, I didn't get into pistols ever, but when pistols came along, basically it leveled the playing field because pistols were actually cheaper than swords and cheaper than getting trained in fencing. You could just practice shooting coke cans in the backyard. So all of a sudden it democratized it. It was no longer the sport of noblemen because anyone could do it right. And this is a time when the word cocktail was invented to describe the strong drink you had in the morning, like an old fashioned so America was super drunk, so dueling seemed like a really good idea, and it took off as a sport. Well, not as a sport, but basically as a socially accepted pastime because America doesn't have kings or dukes or anything, and there were a lot of guns at the time, and everybody started shooting one another in duels. Well, which is one of the big reasons dueling began to die. And it pointed out that I was wrong. I thought it may be because people called for the end of it and said, you know, this is wrong. We shouldn't be doing this. But since dueling began, the church and other legal bodies said, we don't like this because it kind of cripples the legal system because you're taking it to your own hands. And the church didn't like it. They were like, we want to judge these people on their crimes. And it also kind of violates one of the bigger commandments. Absolutely. Forget about the crusades for that one, but sure. Exactly. Military leaders didn't like it because it was killing off able, young bodied men. Yeah. And then later on, war itself, like the civil War and the first world War, really were like, hey, there's more serious things going on. People really die in battle. It sort of became a bit of a fool's undertaking. I think it also hit home, too. The horrors of combat made people not want to kill one another as much. Yeah. Like real deal combat. Yeah. And the civil War and the first world War, like you said, were linked to declines in the US. And Europe, respectively of dueling. And I guess also one of the other reasons dueling declined was because when it was exposed to the middle classes, it wasn't just super rich people killing each other anymore, which was the original purpose, which is why the lower classes were like, who cares? Yeah, dueling is fine. That's fine. We're doing our own thing. And then once it, like you said, democratized and spread to the middle and lower classes, it became a problem. And then eventually we were left with Dueling Banjo's. And that was about as serious as it got. I think that is an excellent way to end this podcast soon. Great. I'm not even going to ask you if you have anything more. If you want to learn more about dueling and you want to see some of these cool rules, you can type duel into the search bar@howstepworks.com. You can tweet to us at syskodcast that's a Twitter handle. You can also reach us on Facebook@facebook.com. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast the housestepworks.com. And, as always, join us at our home on the web. Stuffyournow.com stuff you should know is production of iheartradios Howe. Stuff works for more podcasts myheartradio with the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite show." | |
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/netstorage.discovery.com/DMC-FEEDS/MED/podcasts/2008/1222783506720hsw-sysk-china-pollution-sniffers.mp3 | How China's Pollution Sniffers Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-chinas-pollution-sniffers-work | In China's Guangdong province, twelve volunteers have been trained to detect harmful pollution by using their sense of smell. Check out this HowStuffWorks podcast to learn more about China's pollution sniffers. | In China's Guangdong province, twelve volunteers have been trained to detect harmful pollution by using their sense of smell. Check out this HowStuffWorks podcast to learn more about China's pollution sniffers. | Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2008, tm_mon=10, tm_mday=2, tm_hour=12, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=276, tm_isdst=0) | 13414562 | audio/mpeg | "Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. My name is Josh. The guy across from me is named this is Chuck. Say hi, Chuck. Hi, how are you? Hey, Chuck, I was reading an article today and basically they've recently found out that air pollution, as if it weren't bad enough for your lungs, it actually interferes with your heart's electrical activity. You're kidding. No, I would not kid about that, Chuck. I take the hearts of electrical activity very seriously. I bet you do. Yeah. So basically our bodies can kind of get rid of particles, right. Then there's fine particles, which are a little more difficult. Now we have something called ultra fine particles submicroscopic. They basically get into your body and just wreak all manner of havoc. Right. And as far as I know, we weren't aware that it really interfered with any process of the heart up to this point, but yeah, basically, I think it was the journal of the American Heart Association where this study was published. And when somebody undergo some sort of heart surgery, that kind of thing, they recommend that they avoid traffic anyway. Right, for stress levels. Exactly, yeah, because you know how upset you get in traffic. I've seen you don't pretend like you don't. No, I take the subway, bro. I'm traffic free. Right. And why do you take the subway? Because traffic makes me crazy. Precisely. So they used to recommend that heart patients stay away from traffic for two to three weeks after getting back from the hospital, and they still do. But now for this other reason, because all this traffic pollution can interfere with your heart's electrical activity. Is this only big cities or is it across the board? All across the board, I would imagine. Because if you have your window rolled down and you're in any kind of traffic, you're just sucking that stuff in. Of course. And now some places are worse than others. I know one place where they would recommend you not drive after a heart attack. Where would that be? China. China? Yes. Pretty much anywhere in China. There are some rural parts of China that are pretty clean, lots of trees, that kind of thing. But just about any city in China is going to have a pretty high level pollution. As a matter of fact, as far as I know, in 2006, the World Bank Fine Bank conducted a survey of the 20 most polluted cities in the world. This is amazing to me. 16 of the 20 are in China. I know. That's four fifth. I know, right? Yeah. That's four fifth on my math. That sounds good to me. That is a lot. So I don't know if Beijing fell off of that because China pulled out all the stops to keep Beijing's pollution down during the Olympics. Well, I know I remember watching I believe was it cyclists? US cyclists? That kind of caused a little bit of a stir when they showed up in Beijing wearing masks, breathing masks. I hadn't seen that. I know that all manner of athletes were saying that they may not go compete in Beijing because they took very seriously the damage it was going to do to their bodies. Yeah, they were walking around wearing masks and a lot of people were pretty upset about that. Yeah, well, I mean, how can you plan I've seen pictures. I've never been to Beijing neither, but unless these photos were retouched, it was pretty serious stuff. Well, I think I know where this is leading. Yeah, I think you do, too, because we planned it out ourselves. Right. Pollution sniffing. Right. There was a group that was assembled, and as far as I know, they weren't assembled specifically for the Olympics. I don't think they've been disbanded, I guess, is what I mean. The Olympics are over. To walk around a province in China, the Guangdong province please forgive me anyone of Chinese ancestry or from China for that terrible, terrible pronunciation, but they walk around the Guangdong province and sniff out air pollution, and they're trained to do so. Very highly trained, actually. Yeah, it's kind of an unbelievable thing, but it's really true. It is true. It is true. Again, I've never met any of these people, but I can tell you from all reports, this is a real thing. Basically, they took a group of, I guess, above average smellers. I imagine that they're probably not smokers, there were some requisition, and they took them into this laboratory and had them sniff different noxious smells to train their senses, correct? Right, yeah, but they did it very intensively, and there's actually a study that came out of, I think, Northwestern that showed that the more you sniff a certain smell, the more of an expert you become in it. Right. You can hone in and get more specific within that smell. It becomes much more complex. Right. So, I mean, for example, if you smell a flower, a certain flower, first time you smell it, you've created it's been coded. There's a sense of memory in your brain, external memory, and anytime you see that kind of flower, that scent memory is probably going to be triggered. So you'll be getting this visual information like, oh, there's that flower, and this is what it smells like. So once it becomes coated, it's there. But the complexity of our idea of what the thing smells like can be expanded and subtracted from as far as the more you find. Sure. So this generally happens over time, like, you smell the flower once in a while with the China Pollution sniffers, this was a very intensive training period. It was over and over again. Smell the sulfur, smell the sulfur, you have no choice. Right back in the neck kind of thing. Exactly. Locked in a room, smelling these things, and it's not a pleasant task. And they even are on record it's saying that it's no fun. No. Because they were also trained to smell harmless smells as well? Noxious, like terribly offensive odors, but ones that weren't necessarily harmful. Right. So apparently these people were trained to walk past any garbage dump or smokestack and go, there's X amount of sulfur in there and I smell a little black carbon and maybe some dog poop. That's not that bad. But it's in there. An egg roll? Sure, maybe so. Spring roll, to say the least. So the one thing I never figured out was why. I get the who, the how, the when, the what? I never figured out the why. Why would you train people to smell? Well, I would think because they could pinpoint pollution and do something about it. Or is that not the case? Well, we could anyway, with electronic sensors. Are you talking about the NASA device? That's one of many. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure if you want, I've got car keys. I know you took the train, but we could go to Radio Shack right now and I'm pretty sure we could probably find some sort of Olfactory sensing device, an electronic version of it. Radio check? Probably. If it were a good radio check, it would depend on the location. But I don't understand why you would train humans to do this. The one clear point is you can send the Radio Shack or the NASA Olfactory sensor out sure. And it will report back there's this many parts per million of carbon dioxide or sulfur or whatever in the air, but it's not going to have any reaction. A human would. Right. So the human would be like, oh, there's sulfur dioxide and I'm dying. Which is really the R1 drawback with the pollution. Exactly. When you have humans doing this, it takes its toll on not only their senses, but their health. So it does make you wonder why they would send people in there. Precisely. You never found out? No, I never had a clue. And as a matter of fact, it was never spoken of in any of the articles I read when I was researching this. But it seemed to me, the big elephant in the room. These people are going to die horrible deaths in the next few years. Right. Well, it seems like their smell would deteriorate or at least be neutralized or something over time. Yeah, they recertified every three years. The schedule was every three years they would be recertified. So I guess that kind of shows that they weren't going to be disbanded after the Olympics. Right. Because the Olfactory sense does deteriorate over time. Sure. But the exposure to these harmful chemicals, especially in the training seminar or segment of the whole pollution sniffing academy, I would think would really pose a serious health risk. Right. I would think they would use that. We're talking about the NASA thing a minute ago. The Enos is what they call it. It was just as cute. Of course. I love that name. And they use that on the space shuttle. Right. To detect ammonia leaks. Which makes a lot of sense that they wouldn't send a human up in the space shuttle to sniffer ammonia. It's like a sign around his or her neck saying, ammonia sniffer. Right. Or I break for ammonia. Right. Well, the other argument against that, aside from that being a suicide mission, is that a human just can't smell it as well as this enos can. Exactly. We can get X number of parts per million, let's say several hundred parts per million, before we realize, oh, there's a money leak and I'm dead. Right. This Enos can sniff something at, like, I think, one part per million. One part per million, you're right. So it knows the ammonia leak is going on long before any human has even sniffed ammonia. And you know how noxious and smelly ammonia is? Sure. So that's the purpose of the enos. And it goes on. It's equally impressive down here on Earth, it can tell the difference between Coke and Pepsi. That's what I've read. It's so awesome. And not by tasting, obviously. No, just by smelling. Just by smelling. And the other one, it can sniff an electrical fire before the fire actually breaks out. Wow. Yeah. So the Jet Propulsion Laboratory Enos is a very valuable item to have on board when you're in space. Well, one thing I found interesting, Josh, when I was reading this, was that the way smell works is sort of like the way taste works. Yeah. We don't know, and I know we've talked about that. Well, I'm talking about specifically the shape of the smell receptors and taste receptors. Well, that's a theory. They have the same theory for how we taste and how we smell, but they both boil down to the fact that they're theories. We don't know for certain exactly what's going on. These are pretty good theories. You want to tell them about the receptor idea? Well, it's about the shape. Like a certain smell will fit a certain shape in the olfactory bundle. Is that what it's called? Yes, the olfactory nerve. Right. These are receptors at the end. They're all specialized. Exactly. But not too specialized, because one thing I found really interesting was that some of the molecules, the shape and structure, have completely different smells. Right. You can have two molecules that have the same shape, same structure. You can't tell anything, any difference between them. Right. But they register as different smells, which kind of shoots a hole in the I think it's called the lock and key theory, which they have for taste as well. Certain molecules unlock a certain receptor. Right. So we've got the same thing for taste and the same thing for smell, and they're both equally shoddy theories, although they're the predominantly accepted theories. Right. But if the smell molecules can be the same, if they can double up, does that explain things like maybe if your fart smells like lasagna? I think if your fart smells like lasagna, you may have some sort of synesthesia. I'm not entirely certain, but you may want to consult a physician if your fart smells like lasagna. I wasn't speaking personally. I just use that as an example. That's okay, Chuck. Okay. Yeah. I think you have different receptors, can be assaulted at the same time to produce a combination. Sure. Much like Jelly Belly. Have you ever eaten jellybelly jelly beans? I'm not a jelly bean guy. These things are not jelly beans. All right. Anyway, if you get a bag of this I know what you mean. On the back, it says two blueberry plus one. I think toasted marshmallow creates the flavor of, like, a blueberry muffin. Right. So there's different recipes. You can come up with your own. It's very fun. Are these the ones that are kind of nasty, too? Like they have booger and no bugger that I'm coming across? I think you're confusing Harry Potter with reality again. Maybe I am. I don't know. Maybe if anybody has jalapeno flavored jelly beans, it would probably be Jelly Belly. But they're generally pretty good. They have some pretty good ones, although they do have some that are nontraditional, like coffee and cappuccino. Well, maybe we should send some of these to our pollution sniffing friends in China. Oh, they could tell the difference, I guarantee. I bet. Yeah. So you got everything? You got that you got the pollution sniffers down? Yeah. I feel sorry for these guys. It doesn't sound like a great job. They volunteered. Oh, they did? Yes, they volunteered. No one pressed them into service. Germany is long, long dead, so yes, and they are paid probably pretty well, so don't feel too terribly bad. They're doing this on their own accord, and they're helping the people in Guandong province by keeping them from harm, thankfully. Good. And you can learn more about pollution sniffers on how stuff works.com. We have a search bar that's waiting just for you. Let us know what you think. Send an email all to podcasts@housetopworks.com brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 camry, it's ready. Are you?" | |
How Swat Teams Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-swat-teams-work | In this episode of Stuff You Should Know, Josh and Chuck discuss SWAT teams, elite police units that are specially trained for extreme situations. | In this episode of Stuff You Should Know, Josh and Chuck discuss SWAT teams, elite police units that are specially trained for extreme situations. | Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:08:35 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2010, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=2, tm_hour=19, tm_min=8, tm_sec=35, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=33, tm_isdst=0) | 36266959 | audio/mpeg | "With no fees or minimums on checking and savings accounts. Banking with Capital One is like the easiest decision in the history of decisions. Kind of like choosing to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast. And with their top rated app, you can deposit checks and transfer money anytime, anywhere, making Capital One an even easier decision that's banking reimagined what's in your wallet. Terms apply. Capital one NA member FDIC sharks. The most famous and majestic apex predators on earth. Introducing Shark Week. The podcast. I'm Luke Tipple, the marine biologist and shark expert with over 20 years experience in the field. I'm going to take you on a dive with me. You are going to learn a lot about sharks, and you'll also hear exclusive interviews with the stars of Shark Week to get a behind the scenes look. Listen to Shark Week, the podcast on Apple Podcast Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast, brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and Charles Chuck Bryant's with me as usual. It just wouldn't be the same if he weren't. That's what I hear. Yeah. Thankfully for me. And me, sweetie. So that means this is stuff you should know. All right. Chuck, the podcast. The legend lives on. Yeah, we thought about a name change recently, but we figured we'd just stick with it. Yeah. Stuff you should know. Yes, we thought about a name change. I just made that up. Okay. I was going to say you never CC me on emails anymore. Yeah. So, Chuck, has a SWAT team ever raided your house? No. I did have a cop come to my door one time in Athens, though. I don't know why, actually. I don't remember. I just remember being woken up and there was a cop at the door, and I can't remember exactly why he was coming by. It was a mistake, clearly. But I also didn't fully open the door, if you know what I'm saying. Right. Are you making air quotes that you don't remember? No, it was a mistake. It really was. I honestly don't remember why he showed up. I just remember thinking, I'm just going to crack the door here and see what this cop wants. Have you ever been arrested? No. Really? Does it surprise you? A little bit, yeah. I mean, you went to college in Athens. You lived in La. For a while. I did get shaken down in front of the Georgia theater one night. Like against the wall, frist for no reason. They're always shaking people back. Yeah. I mean, they literally had no reason. They put all of our friends up against the wall, like, stopped the car and just jumped out as we were leaving a show. I think Georgia, the theater being in the vicinity of it was probably the cause under law and ethics. It was weird. And then they just left. As soon as they came, they just, like, left. It was so odd. Well, luckily for you, you didn't die of a heart attack. No. You weren't shot in the chest. No, you weren't shot three times. Now, had it been a SWAT team that shook you down or came to your door, all of these things may have happened. I might have been too tapped. Yeah. What SWAT teams are Chuck. We should probably get to that finally. Right? Yes. SWAT teams are specially trained and specially equipped and armed divisions of police departments. Heavily armed. Very. Yeah. A lot of their stuff is cobbled together through military surplus. Yeah. I didn't realize that. I didn't either. Pretty cool. Thanks to the Grabster, who wrote yet another fine article. Yeah, he's one of the faves around here. He is. He's a good guy. And ironically, neither one of us have ever met him. No, I see what he looks like. Yeah. I don't want to spoil it for you, though. Yeah. I don't like doing that. I like keeping, like, a non image or I see him with a beard. Does he have a beard? He does, but we get that a lot. When people see pictures of us, they write in and to express their displeasure, which is always yeah, we're obtuse. Yeah. Special Weapons and Tactics. Josh is the name now. But what was it originally? Special Weapons Attack Team. Yeah. They realized that was a little too aggressive sounding. A little bit, yeah. So the guy who came up with the original name Special Weapons Attack Team. Right? Yeah. Was the guy named Daryl Gates, who was Police Chief of LAPD for a very long time while you were there. In fact, were you there during the Rodney King incident? No, my brother was, though. Yeah. Was he anywhere near, like, South Central? Well, it happened all over. He was in the area of the riots. Really? Wow. And, you know, clearly stayed in his apartment. Your brother's, not Reginald. Denny. No. Good. Yeah, that'd be bad. I hope that guy is doing all right. Yeah, me too. But Gates didn't actually invent the SWAT team. He's falsely credited with that many times. He did champion the idea. I get the impression that a friend of his or somebody lower on, or I should say higher on the totem pole came up with that idea. And being in a position of authority, he was still a high ranking officer then, although not yet police Chief Gates said, this is a great idea. Sure. So he assembled the world's first SWAT team, or at the very least, the United States first SWAT team. LAPD leading the way, as usual. Right. They also brought us with bribery, corruption, planning, weapons brutality. Brutality, yeah. A long history of bad things. Sure. Yeah. They've cleaned it up, though, I think, now. Have they? Supposedly every decade they've cleaned it up and then something horrible happened to clean it up. Sure. And then 50 horrible things happened. But again, they are credited with coming up with the first SWAT team in America. That was 1967. Right. So they sat around for two years and waited until an organization known as the Black Panthers did not want the LAPD to enter when they came and knocking on some gun warrants. Yeah, that was their headquarters. One of their first encounters. That in the Symbione Liberation Army. Right. I actually read accounts of these two things. The Black Panther standoff in 69 and the SLA standoff in 74 were days long. Right. In the SLA standoff, they shot tear gas into the house. Nothing. They just really turned fire. Wow. Everybody either died of gunshot wounds or burned in the fire. Jeez. The Black Panthers all made it out alive, but this is after several days, too. And in both cases, both sides fired several thousand rounds at one another. Wow. Yeah, that's a serious standoff. It definitely remains in the mentality of the LAPD SWAT team because they have an unofficial patch that has 41 and 54. The Black Panthers headquarter where the standoff took place was at 41st street and then the SLA standoff was at 54th and I think Compton Avenue. They have 41 and 54 constant reminder. Yeah, exactly. I mean, like this created at the very least, it showed the world that you do need SWAT teams. Yeah. Because up to this point, before the SWAT teams were created, any officer who came up on a scene was expected to resolve the problem. Sure. I wouldn't say minimal firearms, but certainly not specially equipped. No gear and ammo. Right. And then in 1975, I don't remember what network it was on, but SWAT came out. Cop show about SWAT teams. Bob Uric, was he in it? Oh, yeah, I never saw it. I saw the horrible remake, the movie version. Yeah, I didn't see that. With Sam Jackson and Colin Farrell. I didn't see that. That's a deadly combination. Now, was that a remake or was it just drinking water in rural Mexico, but in movie form, you know what? Sam Jackson and Collin Ferrell. Yeah, sam Jackson's almost a parody of himself at this point. Yeah, he has been the whole time. We just didn't catch on at first. Is that what I was saying? Yeah, got you. So let's talk a little bit about how many there are in the country. Supposedly there are about 1200 SWAT teams in the United States, and 90% of police forces in cities of 50,000 or more have some kind of SWAT team. Right. Not bad. No, not at all. 70% in smaller towns. Yeah, which is pretty much everybody. I think there's 1200. Yeah, an estimated 1200 across the country. In some cities, smaller towns have kind of gotten together with other nearby smaller towns sure, that makes sense. And have been like, hey, we'll throw in a few SWAT team members in some equipment. You guys do the same. We'll have a regional SWAT team. Right. I've got two point men if you've got a sniper, right. And they'll just collecting Harry Potter trading cards with real life SWAT team members. Right. I never thought about that. So what do they use these people for? Chuck? There's this elite group of technically trained, heavily armed paramilitary police officers. Well, Josh, there's quite a few scenarios. A high risk warrant. Obviously, if they're going to serve a warrant to a known violent felon who may have a gun or armament. Right. They want to bring in the SWAT team. Sure. Any kind of hostage situation or barricade situation. Obviously, a high risk person is when someone needs to be transported like some nasty Hill or Henry Hill. And obviously terrorist attacks or riots. You call them the SWAT team. Yeah. Or the riot crew, which we should do. This made me want to do one on riot control, actually. We should do that at some point. Yeah. Cracking heads. Is that how they do it? Cracking hippies heads? Yeah, hippies. We should do that because we could talk about the battle for Seattle in 1999. Yes. My friend was there. Yeah, that's right. I think you said that inciting the riot, throwing bricks and Malta. He had funny, funny signs that he held up, like, Simpsons references and stuff. Our kind of guy. All right, so look for Ryan control coming up. Right? Indeed. Check. There's about 40,000 SWAT rates in the US every year. Wow. Yeah. That's a lot, isn't it? Yeah. I didn't realize that. It's growing and growing. In the last 25 years, it's increased 1300%. Now, is that because they're a little more trigger happy or because there's more SWAT guys, or because there's more situations that need it? Or all three, probably. It's probably all three, plus a little bit of looser federal funding coming in than there ever was before. The Department of Homeland Security is around. They have deep pockets. So a police station might say, wow, sure. Let's get that tank since we have the dough. Right. Nice. Yes. Although it's really not a tank. Well, we should talk about it, actually. A lot of times the vehicles are transformed into SWAT vehicles, so they'll just take, like, a delivery van and arm it, paint it black and throw some bat shields up on it. All of sudden, a that's an armed vehicle. Yeah. A lot of times it sees stuff. Sometimes they use RVs. I love this part. Go ahead. I know where you're going. Where? It'll be like a mobile command headquarters. Sure. Because the reason it's so valuable is really obvious, but it's easy to overlook because they have a bathroom. Yeah. See, in the movies, you never see the hostage stand off where the guy says, I have to go take a leak. Yeah. You stay there waiting your gun. Don't shoot anybody while I'm gone. You never see anyone sneeze or go to the bathroom, anything like that? Yes. It's important to the film. Right. And a lot of times, they'll use these transports, heavily armed, to actually carry the SWAT team members into an assault. But it doesn't always work. In 1988, after German terrorists sees the Nakatomi building in Los Angeles, the LAPD SWAT team used their heavily armored vehicle to try to breach the door to the building, and they were fired upon by the terrorists using a rocket launcher, which I think killed or injured everyone inside. She's dancing Fensta. Yeah. Ask me what that means. What does that mean? Shoot the glass. Okay, thanks. If no one out there realizes that we're talking clearly about the movie Die Hard, then why then you really need to get out more. At least rent more movies. Yeah, absolutely. All right, Chuck, let's get down to basics here, dude. Okay. We've gotten so far afield, it's ridiculous. Have we? No, not really. Not as bad as we did with the whole GI. Joe tyrad ninja. Yeah, true. Yeah. How do you become a SWAT team member? Well, Josh, there's different ways you can become a member. You obviously have to be a police officer, and many times you can volunteer. If you just want the extra action and you feel like you're capable or you're a really good marksman or just a tough guy. Sometimes, though, you are actually forced into duty. Yeah. There's tons of years of service. It's like a point in a police officer's career. Right. Like, you started as rookie, you work the beat, and then maybe at some point you're a detective, and then after that, SWAT. Or maybe those are diversion, but yeah, on some forces, you're expected to eventually be a swap member for a little while. Yeah. On smaller scales, SWAT team members will be regular police officers as well, or just driving around, like, looking for bad guys or whatever. And then there's a call out, which is what they're called, and then they'll go and get their stuff and get ready. Right, right. In places like La. New York, their SWAT teams are, like, just SWAT members 24/7. They train all the time. They're very well funded, very heavily armed, and that is the SWAT team that we generally think of when we think of slot. Right. Yeah. So how do they get to be this way? I mean, clearly, they're born badasses, but they have to go through training, right? Yeah. And like you said, the training never ends. When you're kind of being in the military, you don't stop training. Right. You're constantly training because you got to keep up the physical fitness. You should be an expert marksman, although it's not absolutely required. I think it is in a lot of, like, the ones where their SWAT teams, like, 24/7, like you said, I think that they do require them to be such expert marksman that they're automatically qualified to teach marksman courses. Right. I believe master marksman is the term we're looking for. Yeah, it makes sense. Sure. So what they do here, obviously, is set up scenarios to practice. When you see in the movies, when they have the fake city scene or the fake house, and then they push the button and out comes the dummy of a bad guy's academy. Yes. Or outcomes. The dummy of a lady holding a child. And invariably in the movie that they shoot the lady by accident and they have to start all over again. That's really how it goes down, though. Yeah. Which makes a lot of sense, because, as the grabs your points out in the article, sitting around and talking about what you should do is not really good training. You need high levels of training. Or computer sims. They do that, too. Sure. Which I think usually require you walking around with a gun as well. They do, yeah. Okay. I don't think it's just like a joystick. I think you're in a room where it simulates, like, the mannequins coming out. You have a white gun. Right. But instead it's like all the characters from Sonic the Hedgehog got you. So, Chuck, we've got gun training there's often. Well, I shouldn't say often in some cases, specifically with the LAPD, there's also a lot of hostage negotiation training as well. In most places, keep SWAT and hostage negotiation totally separate. Right. They don't want them to mix. They actually probably want them to butt heads a little bit so that there's real discourse about whether or not to go in with guns blazing or to try to resolve the situation. Makes sense through negotiation. Right. But in the LAPD SWAT, every single one of them is a trained hostage negotiator that's qualified to take over negotiations as the lead negotiator. Yeah. That's pretty cool. It is pretty cool. And that was multifaceted. Yeah. That was one of my favorite podcasts we did, too, about hostage negotiations. So these are closely tied segments of private law enforcement, I guess. I keep wanting to call it military. Well, it's paramilitary. I mean, they very much resemble a military team. Sure. They have stealth reconnaissance team members, people who, if they are getting some information about the layout of the house, maybe from the negotiator, the hostage was let go or something like that. But they need more. They'll send a couple of guys in, and they will drill a hole and put a pinhole camera in to keep an eye on the guy and get more information about the house, that kind of stuff. Right. Yeah. They have snipers, obviously. Yes. They have anti sniper snipers. Do they? Yeah. Because what if there's a sniper shooting at you? Why wouldn't that just be a sniper? Yeah, but they call them anti sniper. Well, yeah, I guess it's true. Most snipers aren't just like some jerk walking around waving a gun inside of a house. Sure. Probably. It's hard to hit. Yeah. And what else do they have? Explosive guys, experts, demolition, I guess you would call it. Yeah. Pretty cool. Yeah. So, I mean this is not your average ordinary patrol guy who's going to pull you over for running a stop sign, right? No, definitely not. So Chuck, we've kind of referred to it here. There's like a guy waving a gun in the house or whatever, right. SWAT situations are generally where there's a standoff, like you said. Yeah. There is a guy in the house, he has hostages. Okay. He's barricaded himself inside. Sure. He's not responding, right? Yeah. Bad news. So the SWAT team is called out. The SWAT team apparently takes about an hour to assemble and make it to the scene. Right? Yeah. Even though I think you'd mentioned that they listen in on the police radio and if they hear of a scenario where they might be called, they'll go ahead and start loading the shotguns with shells and start getting ready just in case. Putting on the grease paint. Yeah, exactly. The chicken blood across the forehead. But when they make it out, one of the first things they'll do apparently is come up with quick and dirty. I just made air quotes, as you saw, contingency plans in case this thing just falls apart. Right. When they get there, they need to know how to get in, get as many people out as possible, neutralize the guy. Which is another word for kill. Yes, exactly. And if they do have time of the situation is what the cops call static, meaning the guys he's responding to the negotiator, he's not shooting anybody yet. It's still a standoff. But there's the element of time. They have time. Exactly. Then they're going to start planning. Right? Yeah. That's when you bring in the RV and that means you can use the bathroom if you want and come up with a very safe plan because ideally I know the grabster points out, even though these guys have a reputation as being very trigger happy, ideally you want to end it peacefully even if you're a SWAT team member. So they're getting information from the hostage negotiator, from any hostages that may be released, from their stealth guys, and they've decided that enough is enough. It's time for this guy to go down, right? Yes. So they've assembled, they've got their plan set, they've got all the information they need, and they go through the barricade, they go through the door. What does that look like? If you're standing there and all of a sudden you're in the house, the door opens up and then comes the SWAT team. What's going to happen? Well, first thing first, you probably would not see ten guys because they form what's called a snake. And that's why in the films you see in the picture shows you'll see them in a dead straight line, obviously, because it minimizes the targets. Right? Yeah. They can shoot at the guy in front of that line is called the point man. Very brave person. Very brave. But also that guy has to be as cool as a cucumber. Under some of the highest amounts of stress a human being can go through. He has to be able to take in an entire situation in a split second to decide if that's a woman holding a baby. Right. So don't shoot her because this isn't police academy. Or if the guy has a gun, if it's pointed at them, what's going on. Exactly. And then act on this information in a really quick manner. Right. I would beat the tail end of that snake if I was a sweat guy. Yeah. I'd still be in the bathroom in the motorhome. Yeah, sure. Well, also in the movies, they get it right most times, is you'll see them come in in a single file and then immediately it seems like they all go to a designated spot in the room, almost as if they were trained to do so. And it's because they are. Yeah. They're called areas of responsibility. Yeah. They have it all planned out beforehand. Yes. So you have like, eight guys and they already know the layout of the room where they're entering and where the guy has the hostages. Right, exactly. Each person has a portion of the room that they're responsible for. So the appointment comes in and maybe his is dead ahead. Guy behind him is to the right little corner. The guy behind him is a little beyond that. So everybody's aiming at different parts of the room clear. Right. Exactly. Once they've noticed that their area of responsibility is clear, then they're going to train their gun on the guy who is the problem. Right. And also, we forgot to mention generally a lot of yelling and screaming going on and maybe was it called a flashbang grenade? Yeah. Because one of the things that they want to do is disorient and confuse the suspect. So you can shoot them in the head or ideally put them on the ground and cuff them. Sure. We have to say that because that's really what they're after. Right. We can't just say that they're kill crazy, vengeance minded thugs. No. And that's actually evidenced by the percentage of SWAT assaults that were not a single gunshot is fired. It's about 90% of them. Yeah, that's pretty good. I bet that 10% is pretty exciting. Pretty bloody. Thousands of rounds of ammo. They also point out, or Ed does, rather, that when you have your area of responsibility, you plan this thing out, obviously, to go in and cover the room. But your point man and actually everyone on the team is sort of like the quarterback coming to the line of scrimmage. When you do that in the NFL, you see the defense and sometimes you have to change the play because the layout has changed or it's not exactly how you thought, or there are more guys in there than you thought. Right. You don't want to be the guy who's like covering your empty corner, which makes up your area of responsibility the whole time. Yeah. You want to be patent Manning. Sure. At the line of scrimmage. Yeah. Except you have a gun. Right. Can we talk about the guns? Yeah. This is my favorite part. Is it you gung guy? No, neither one of us are. But we always go all giggly when we talk about these guns. I guess it's just being raised as kids, watching the ateam and stuff like that. Very exciting because I'm not a gun guy at all. Both of us are little pansy liberals. Yeah. I have a panty waste on right now. I know, but I love these guns. Sure. So equipment wise, every officer has a nice, reliable, high powered handgun. First things first, correct? Yeah. Which they usually wear lower on their leg for quick reach. Yeah. And then the holsters will be modified so that they can draw really fast. Although I imagine if you're going in, you already have your gun out. Right. So I think it technically is to look kind of like Han Solo. Is that what it is? Yeah. And they also will usually have a submachine gun and a shotgun. And clearly they're not going to go in with all three, but they have a great amount of leeway with their own personal arsenal. They can pick out their own guns, essentially. And a lot of times if you look at the SWAT arsenal, it's kind of ragtag and piecemeal because in addition to seizing delivery vans used for drugs, they also seize weapons from drug dealers. So one guy might have an Uzi, another guy might have a Heckler and coke MP4 or something like that. AK 47. Yeah. Can I bazooka show you something cool? I got a picture for you. Oh, you even have it turned over, so I couldn't really surprise you with it. In the article, Ed talks about shotguns are clearly popular because you cannot be too discerning with where you're aiming and still hit something. I would think that you wouldn't want a shotgun in a SWAT hostage situation. Well, it depends on the situation. Right. So I think that's why they picked their guns. But he pointed out that sometimes you can combine the shotgun with the machine gun. What? Did you see that? No. The Nightmaster keys. And I'm going to show you a picture, and I would love to be able to post this on the blog, but look at that bad boy. Holy cow. It is essentially if you know guns, if you picture like an M 16 with a clip, right in front of the clip is the front end of a shotgun without the barrel on it attached to the gun. Right. It's like an M 16 with a grenade launcher attachment, but instead of the grenade launcher, it has a shotgun. And I'm anti gun but that's my new zombie defense weapon. Yeah. I don't want to hurt anybody, but this does make me wish for a zombie apocalypse. Yeah. Nice one. So that's the master key. Are you going to hang that up in your cubicle? Well, people might think some creep, but that's not the case. People not stop by your desk quite as often. Right. Bug you. We mentioned the flashbang grenades. Obviously, if it's a riot situation, they have all manner of non lethal things that they can shoot at you. Foam and wood and things that will stop you but not kill you. They use grappling hooks and tiger claws. No, that's a ninja. I get the too confusing. Yes. I understand bolt action rifles are the sniper rifle of preference. Right. But they're not allowed to use 50 millimeter or 50 caliber. Right. Is it 50 millimeter? Okay. These are sniper rifles that I think we've mentioned before and probably the Delta Force podcast I think we have, because I think either Special Forces or Delta Force or both requires their snipers to be able to be accurate with a 50 cal sniper rifle up to 1500 yards. And why can't they use them in the private police sector? Because it will go right through your target and through a couple of hostages as well. It can also go right through walls. Check that out. That's twice as tall as the dollar bill. Yeah. I'm showing Josh a picture of a 50 cal round, and they did a measurement next to a ruler, and it's about five and a half inches long. Wow. Is this bullet with the casing? Obviously, but it's enormous. It can rip very big holes in things. Yeah. So they don't allow them to use that because it could potentially kill hostages, like on the street behind the house. It could potentially kill a fruit vendor two towns over. It could. That's not good. You want your fruit vendors alive and well. And surveillance equipment, obviously. Yeah. That pinhole camera I mentioned. Sure. High powered binoculars. NVGs night vision goggles. Yes. Have you ever used those? No. I have. You really? Yeah. Were you carrying this thing? No. My brother in law was in the Marines and he let me wear his out in the neighborhood one night. Did you toilet paper your neighbor's house? No, but I walked around and looked at stuff. It was about the coolest thing ever. Really? Did you notice anything that you wouldn't normally see? Like squirrels doing weird stuff? Well, not weird stuff, but you can see in the dark. Although not complete dark. They work by amplifying available light. Right. But if it is complete dark, what can they use? Thermal imaging cameras. Yeah. I have a story about this, Chuck. Let's hear it. Back at the turn of the last millennium. Chuck, there's a lot of debate about whether or not police departments or law enforcement should be using the thermal imaging cameras, because they said. That they could see right through walls. There was way too much detail. It was just unfair. And it violated privacy. Sure. Right. And they were using them in flyovers of suspected grow houses. But basically you could just ride around and look right into somebody's house. Marijuana grow house. Now you're hip. Okay. So the law enforcement officers are saying, like, no, you can't see through houses. All you can see is like, whether there's a lot of heat coming off of a house. Sure. Well, I founded an alternative newspaper in East Tennessee called Washboard Weekly. And I got to the bottom of this and I found out that I think the Union Pacific railroads employed security guards who had these thermal imaging cameras to look for bums on board. Really? And I got in touch with one of these hobos. Yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend the bum. And I got in touch with one of these security guards and he was boasting about how it could see right through two inch thick steel walls and cable cars. Wow. They're not cable cars, but box cars. Right. And he said, you can see everything. You can make out basically details. These things are so good. So I correct the case. Oh, really? Yeah. No one paid attention, but I figured it out that law enforcement shouldn't be using those things. There were 20 people in East Tennessee that were very upset as a result of that exactly finding. I thought you were going to say you got to see it or use it or get a demo. No, I just got to the bottom of it, that's all. Good job. Thanks. Investigative reporter Josh. Yeah. And Chuck? Yes. Josh? That's a pretty good segue, don't you think, to, I guess, accusations of overuse and over aggression with SWAT teams. Yeah, sure. There's a lot of controversy and criticism right now over the past decade or so. For instance, calling out the SWAT team to serve a warrant on a nonviolent offender. Seems like it might be overkill. Yeah. And it has been just plain old kill in several occasions. Yes. Let's talk about a couple of these. Okay. And we're not trying to blow the whistle, but these things have actually happened, sadly, in South Carolina and a high school drug raid, a SWAT team was called in to a high school drug grade and they forced students as young as 14 to kneel down at gunpoint and drug dogs sniffed around in their lockers and their backpacks and they, of course, found no drugs. I would say that is overkill and misuse of SWAT team. Very much so. You want to hear another one? Yeah, sure. In 2006 in Maryland, police rated the home of Cheryl Knoll to, I guess, seize drugs from her 19 year old son. Those drugs turned out to be marijuana. Right? Just a tiny amount. But the cops came in at 430 in the morning. Cheryl Noel had no idea what was going on. So she heard somebody storming into her house and she grabbed her registered gun and had it pointed at the floor in her bedroom where she was standing. Right. The cops kicked the bedroom door in without identifying themselves and without telling her to drop the weapon. They shot her three times. The third time was when she was already on the ground. Really? She was dead, and they ruled it a justifiable killing. Really? Yeah. You know, that happened in that old lady in Atlanta just last year, but it wasn't SWAT. It was just regular cop. It was, I think, Red Dog. Oh, was it? Yeah. And they just busted in on her, and I think she had a gun, right? Yes. And acted in self defense. They killed this old lady? Yeah. They shot her like seven or eight times. Yeah. Very sad. I think Red Dog got disbanded because of that. Did they? Yeah. Here's another good one. This is my favorite one. An optometrist at some point was shot and killed by a SWAT team officer when the team was called out to arrest him for betting on football games. Yeah. Guy named Salvatore Culotte Jr. Where was this? Do you know? It was in Boston. And the guy was complying. He was outside of his house, hands up, doing everything the cops were telling him to do. And one of the SWAT team members had, I think, H and K or somebody, 45 trained on the guy's chest with his finger on the trigger and accidentally shot him in the chest and killed him for betting on NFL football. Yeah. Well, thankfully, these incidences are incidences maybe incidences are few and far between. Yeah. The police department in the city tends to side with their SWAT team. They'll pay out, like, a million dollars for a wrongful death or something like that, but it's not really having any impact on the use of SWAT teams. But something else is. Chuck what's that? Did you notice the sidebar on the active shooter doctrine? Yes, I did, actually. That's when it's like some kook goes into the office building and start shooting people up or school shooter. Right. School shooting is what gave rise to this. The 96 Columbine shooting. Right. For an hour while this rampage was going on, the regular cops created a perimeter and just stood outside of it waiting for the SWAT team, which is exactly what they were supposed to do. Yeah. That's no good, though. No, it's not, because by the time the SWAT team finally went in, everything was over. There were, I think, 17 dead and 35 injured. One guy bled to death before the SWAT team made in, and both shooters had killed themselves. Right. So that gave rise to this active shooter doctrine, which is kind of this new school of thought that has led to new training for just the average patrol officer to handle this kind of thing rather than sit around and wait for SWAT to act fast. Yeah, and to act tough as well. I mean, if somebody's running around shooting, you can't just call and say, we need SWAT and wait an hour. You have to go in and kill the guy yourself. Neutralize. Yeah, neutralize. Sorry. So that's leading to a whole new sentiment. And like I said, training for regular officers across the country, which is really odd for SWAT now because they're being relegated to just static situations where there's, like, a hostage and there's time. The element of time. Right. Which I wonder how many SWAT team members are happy about this active shooter doctrine. Yeah, seriously. Notice if we say guys a lot, we're not trying to be sexist, but most of these creeps who take hostages and barricade and then shoot up schools and office buildings, they're usually guys. Sure. Let's be real here. Women are far too sensible to do something like that. We'll put Chuck. Sure. If you want to learn more about SWAT, you can type in how SWAT teams work in the handy search bar@howstepworks.com. Which, of course, leads us now to listener mail. Yes, Josh? I'm going to call this Gilligan's Island reference. I like it. All right. It starts out good. This is from Dan and Fort Collins. I guess it's Colorado, right? Yeah. Hi, Chuck and Josh. Great red dawn reference in the Honeybee episode. I wonder how many people got that. Remember when I said Wolverines was spray painted on the front? Yeah. Wait, should we go back in time? No. People remember. It was just a couple weeks ago. Got you. But, Dan, no one actually noticed that except for you so far. Way to go, Dan. So you're on the ball. He points out that there was a classic Gilligan's Island episode, but weren't they all classic, he says, where a beetles like group, the Mosquitoes, got stranded on the island. You remember that? Yeah. Was there an episode where someone didn't get stranded on the island? Even Jaja Gabor got stranded there. For reasons I can't remember, the castaways put together two groups of competing bands, one with the guys, the other was The Honeybees, featuring Ginger, Mary Anne and Mrs. Howell. And you can see that on YouTube. It gives the address, but I'm sure you can search for that if you want to see it. When the Mosquitoes, Bingo, Bongo Bango and Irving did get off the island, they sighted The Honeybees and said they had enough competition already. And all this is, of course, in reference to The Honeybee cast, but it leads to this eternal question. Ginger or Marianne? Ginger dances. Mary Anne. Marianne. I say, Mrs. Howell sick of Cougar central. Buddy, that is an eternal question. Okay? She's loaded. Well, she's rich, she's old. Cooper central sicko. She's experienced. I'll go with Marianne, too, though. Will you? I think ultimately, in the long run, definitely. Mary Anne. Although growing up as a young baptist. It was very conflicting. It's the classic scenario of good girl, bad girl. Yeah, but ultimately, isn't the best to hope for an equal balance mixture of the two? Don't you want a good girl who knows how to be a bad girl as well? I guess so. You want Ginger and Marianne. Yeah, I've got Ginger and Marion. And he goes on to say hi to Josh and Jerry because he addressed it to me. And how does Josh manage to say how Stuff works.com in time with the music at the end of every show? And then he says, oh, I get it. Gerry does that wrong. That is just my natural timing. No, Jerry is the secret behind this mess. We all know that. Yeah, if she even left in one beep, we would be in big trouble. Yeah, well, if you have a compliment for Jerry, if you figured out that she is the sorceress behind this entire contraction, kudos to you. Send a compliment to us in the email. Send the compliment. Leave that in. Do you see? This is what Jerry does. Send the compliment in an email to stuffpodcast@howstuffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseofworks.com. Want more housetofworks? Check out our blog on the Housetofworks.com homepage. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school's out. The sun is shining, the daylights longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder. From exactly right. Media. My favorite murder has something for everyone. 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4565808c-ba8a-11e8-9ed2-071b8460508d | Short Stuff: Wigs in English Court | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/short-stuff-wigs-in-english-court | What's the deal with the wigs in the English court system? Learn all about it in today's short stuff. | What's the deal with the wigs in the English court system? Learn all about it in today's short stuff. | Wed, 06 Mar 2019 14:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2019, tm_mon=3, tm_mday=6, tm_hour=14, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=2, tm_yday=65, tm_isdst=0) | 11981336 | audio/mpeg | "Hey there, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and there's Jerry. Let's get to it. Why do lawyers wear wigs in Britain? Go, you know what's funny is, when I was researching this, it's really funny to me to look at modern pictures of these, and I don't want to make fun of it, but it is funny in 2019 to look at photos of barristers and judges wearing powdered wigs. Just let me say that out loud before. Did you just say that out loud? Like, you see them outside, there's pictures of smoking a cigarette on their smartphone wearing these wigs. Right. Playing Crush. Before we get started, though, Chuck, I want to differentiate between a barrister and a solicitor, which I did not know until today, actually. The difference? Yeah. I thought maybe one was like a defense attorney and one was a prosecutor, like we have here in the US. That's not the case. A solicitor is like the lawyer that you go meet with outside of court and maybe advise you on family and children matters or bankruptcy or divorce or something like that. And then they might negotiate contracts, that kind of thing. But then when you're in court, you're represented by a barrister and the barrister works with the solicitor to understand your case, but it's the barrister who is petitioning the court on your behalf. So they're both working for the people. They're not prosecuting somebody. But that's the difference. One of the other differences, at least one of the most obvious and apparent differences between a barrister and a solicitor is that you don't see solicitors wearing wigs, you do see barristers wearing wigs. So that's a short stuff within a short stuff. The difference between barristers and solicitors, everybody that's just an SS. It's so short. So, to the wigs, there are a lot of reasons they're called perux that over the years, and we'll get to the whole fashion of the wigs in a minute, too. But there are several reasons why they wore them to begin with and why they still might wear them in certain cases. One of the main reasons is to give it a more formal proceeding, a more solemn proceeding. Another big reason is it's a safeguard, almost like and I've seen the word disguise used. It's very bad disguise, because it's just the wig. Oh, yeah. I hadn't noticed that. But in criminal court, it supposedly lends to anonymity these robes and wigs. So where if this criminal sees their attorney on the street six months later, they might be like, I don't even recognize that guy. He looks familiar, but if only he had a powered wig on, I might be able to knife him in the tube. Can't quite place him. So that is sort of what they represent. And they have been a part of the court system over there. Not forever, but since what year? Since 1685, at least. Yeah. Previous to that, they didn't use these wigs, which is interesting. It is interesting, because at the time, wigs were already all their age in Europe and had been for a few years. But I guess the court system was like, no, we're going to not take part in this ridiculous fashion trend. And I guess just portraits from the early 1680s even just showed people without wigs on, and then all of a sudden, bam, wigs start showing up in the portraits, and they've been there ever since, even long after wigs fell out of fashion. I mean, wigs were only fashionable for less than 100 years. Actually, far less than 100 years. No, about 100 years, let's say. And then they were gone. And the British court system, wherever it popped up around the world, hung onto these wigs for another, like, 200, 300 years. Yeah. And as far as the wigs themselves, you can get a little bit of variety, but it's not like you can walk in there with your rainbow Afro wig. They're generally similar barristers. It's a little frizz at the top. They have the horizontal curls on the side and the back, and then the very, very back, the mullet section. You have these two long strips below the hairline with a little looped curl. The judges themselves have the much more ornate wigs. That's more full. Very long. Yeah, super long. These are the ones. That's how you can tell the difference when you see the dude with the big, huge, full, long wig, that's a judge. When you see the little one sitting on top, standing outside the court house with your smartphone and your cigarette, that's a barrister. And the judges wig looks very much like a 70s rocker hairdo if you step back and look at it. Yeah. Like, really? I'm trying to think of who, like, maybe like a tour manager for Led Zeppelin or something like that. All right, maybe. Although he famously did not have long hair, but sure. Who? Phil Graham? He was bald on top. Was that his name? He was a promoter. Okay. Phil Graham was all right, man. He used to stick people up. He would say, like, if you don't give us an extra $100,000, my boys aren't going on stage, like, five minutes before they're supposed to go on stage. It's pretty legendary piece of work. So as far as the wigs, though, they are expensive. Judges can throw down about three grand on a wig. The barristers may spend anywhere from $500 to $1,000. These are dollars, not pounds. Yeah. And they're made of horse hair, traditionally have always been made of horse hair. If you can afford it just because of tradition, it's not like horse hair is some super valuable thing, but some have been made through other things, like goats hair or just cotton or maybe a dead human or even a live human at the time. Back in the day, humans would donate their long, white hair kind of like locks of love. But rather than for people who have survived cancer, it's for the courts, blocks of law. And rather than for love, it's for money. So it doesn't really bear that much of a resemblance, although hair was involved. But the horse hair, it's like you said, it's not prize, it's a tradition. That's what they were made out of originally, and that's what they continue to be made out of. But that's not to say they're just, like, thrown together. These are remarkably well made, or they're supposed to be for a very long time. They were very well made, artisan crafted wigs. All right, let's take a break. We're going to come back and talk a little bit more about the history of these wigs and why on earth they're still wearing them right after this. All right, so the history of wigs here, it may surprise you to know that a big reason these wigs started to be worn is because syphilis was rampant. Yes. It seems like everybody had syphilis. Yeah. And one of the things that can happen when you have syphilis, aside from blindness and rashes and dementia and open source, is you can lose your hair. So maybe unfairly, because male pattern baldness is a thing anyway, if you lost your hair and you're a prominent person, a lot of people probably looked at you and said, he got syphilis. Yeah. Plus, at the time, long hair on men was very much in fashion. Sure. And that does not go well with syphilis if you're balding. So wigs came into play, and they might not have come into play as strongly as they did had it not been for Louis the 14th, the King of France, the Sun King, who they believe had syphilis. And he started wearing wigs himself. He ran from 1643 to 1715, and he was a huge trendsetter. So when he started wearing these powdered wigs, everybody started wearing powdered wigs, and not just in France and not just among his court, but in courts, in the aristocracy and the upper classes of all of Europe, including in England, which was rained by Charles II at the time, who was the cousin of Louis XIV, and also maybe he had syphilis. Yeah, syphilis. Everywhere. You get syphilis, you get syphilis, you get syphilis. And like you said, it spread through all of aristocracy. Finally, it fell out of fashion over time, like you said, syphilis. Well, yeah. Didn't take that long for the wigs to fall out of fashion, would you say? Less than 100 years. Yeah. By the time King George III, who was presiding over England during the American Revolution when he was in charge, it was really just basically coachman bishops, and I believe the court. And in the 1830s, the church or the Anglican Church said bishops don't need to wear those anymore. I don't know when Coachman stopped wearing them, but then it's like, we're with the bishops. Right. Then the courts. They just kept it up from that point on. Yes. So finally, in 2007, there was a court challenge, an actual suit brought forward to say, can we not wear these wigs anymore? And there was a ruling that said that technically did away with barrister wigs, but not entirely because that was only in civil court or appearing before the Supreme Court. But in criminal cases, they were like, keep those wigs on everybody. And I believe they still do. Right? Yeah. That's what I couldn't quite figure out in this article. It says, until 2011, when the practice was discontinued. Well, that was with judges. Okay, all right. That makes more sense now. Barristers in 2007, judges in 2011. But I believe that in criminal cases, both barristers and judges are still required to wear wigs, or else it's a real affront to the decorum of the court. Yeah. I was reading articles from last year that talked about the fact that they were still trying to get it not mandatory for criminal cases, but I think they are still wearing them. And it had a sweeping effect, like everyone around the world that worked in the legal system of a country that was a former British colony, whether in Africa, whether Australia, whether Canada, or just waiting actually, I think Canada did away with them before, but it's like they were just waiting to pull these wigs off. Jamaica got rid of theirs in 2013. Australia got rid of theirs finally in 2010. So whatever lawsuit that was in 2007, that had literally global effects. Yeah. I mean, one of the articles I read talked about in England, the Heat. The Heat, yeah. In the summertime, these robes and these wigs. It's a problem. And they should just file a petition or whatever that just says, to whom it may concern. Come on, this is ridiculous. It's 2019, right? Yeah. We look silly. Yeah. Although in Hong Kong, they are still with it 100%, from what I understand. Yes. So if you want to go see your lawyers and your judges wearing traditional wigs, go to Hong Kong. I think that's the upshot of the shorts. Yeah. Go commit a crime in Hong Kong. There you go. Thanks a lot for joining us. If you want to get in touch with us, shoot us an email. Why don't you send it off the Stuff podcast@housetuffworks.com?" | |
How Lewis and Clark Worked | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-lewis-and-clark-worked | They may be the most famous explorers in U.S. history, but there are plenty of interesting details to the Lewis and Clark expedition that history has allowed to fade. Learn about the origin and the aftermath of America's first early push Westward in this | They may be the most famous explorers in U.S. history, but there are plenty of interesting details to the Lewis and Clark expedition that history has allowed to fade. Learn about the origin and the aftermath of America's first early push Westward in this | Thu, 07 Nov 2013 15:33:32 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2013, tm_mon=11, tm_mday=7, tm_hour=15, tm_min=33, tm_sec=32, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=311, tm_isdst=0) | 50086634 | audio/mpeg | "Brought to you by the allnew 2014 Toyota Corolla. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Lewis Bryant. Yeah. I thought you were going to come into this. I thought, like I thought about it. You like to chuckle, do that dumb joke. I wondered if I was related to Mr. Clark. Oh, yeah. I'm just going to say I am from now on. Have you heard of William Clark, the explorer? Luis and Clark? Yeah. Well, I'm Josh Clark. Yeah, because Clark is the unusual name. You might be. No, but I mean, like, his family was from the Ohio River Valley. I grew up in Toledo. Okay. There you go. I wonder. You have an explorer spirit. You're a laid back guy. Yeah, he was laid back. Not like Lewis. He was semi literate. I'm fairly literate. That's the big distinction. It is funny. Like, have you read some of his verbatim journal entries? To Clarks or Lewis's? Well, both of them, but Clark's way worse. Yeah, Lewis is a pretty good writer, I thought. Yeah, but he had some weird spellings, too. Clark was just like frontier Kentucky boy writing in a journey. Yeah, they were a good pair, though. Yeah. And this isn't one of those podcasts or stories where you look back and you're like, oh, history has really pumped this up. And they were really kind of like this on, like, Jerks. No, this is really a great story. And they were actually true American heroes. Yeah. One semi tragic, I would say. Well, the ending is pretty tragic. No, but Louis is manic depressive. Yeah. By all accounts. Yeah. Back then, they called it prone to Fitz, but modern people say, no, he was probably manic depressive. Right. And I prepped by watching the four hour Ken Burns documentary last night. 4 hours? Yeah. I thought it was 2 hours. And I was like, oh, I got this. And then I got to the two hour point and I was like, wait a minute. They just hit the continental divide. I don't think I'm at the end. That's so funny, because in the email you emailed me to suggest that I watch it. You called it a six part, not four hour. Well, they had it on YouTube in six parts, but in actuality it's twelve parts. That's hilarious. All right, so let's do this. This is one of my favorite stories in history. Is it really? Yeah, man. And again, I've said this before. Why isn't this a movie? Like a really good movie? Not this. Have you seen? Almost heroes. Yeah. Right. There you go. All right, so Chuck Louis and Clark, Merriweather Lewis, William Clarke, pair of army folk turned explorers, thanks to a little bit of, I guess, serendipity. It would have been somebody else had it not been these guys. Because really, the whole idea of this expedition, which was called the core of discovery. Yes. It sounds like a soccer team. It was the brainchild of Thomas Jefferson. Yeah. And the brainchild of TJ, because he's like, hey, I just doubled the size of our country by buying a bunch of land from Napoleon. Do you know the background on that? The Louisiana Purchase? Yeah, I know. It's the greatest land deal in the history of the world, probably. Yeah. But what do you mean? Well, it was the French's land and they were about to get it from they were about to give it to the Spanish. Well, the Spanish were west of them, so probably. And the French lake had barely any presence in this area, but it was their land. But the Spanish, had they taken over, they would have been a real problem because the Americans had access to the port of New Orleans because the French were basically absentee landlords there. And so the idea that the Spaniards were about to get it, that was a big problem. So Jefferson sent some people over to France to try to negotiate something. Right. And it turned out Napoleon was having all sorts of problems, and it had been recommended to him by his people, like, just sell it to the Americans. They're coming over, they want to talk. So I think James Monroe was sent by Thomas Jefferson with a limit of $10 million to do something to buy Florida and New Orleans. Or New Orleans for up to $10 million. Yeah. Monroe found out he could get all of the Louisiana Territory, which went up to Canada. Yeah. Louisiana is really under sells it. It went from the Rockies all the way over to the colonies. Yeah. And then up to Canada and down to the Gulf of Mexico. Yeah. It was double the size of our country. Yeah. Overnight. So Monroe was like, I'll give you $15 million for it in the French sold. So he bought 827,000 sq. Mi of North America. Yeah. About $0.03 an acre. And that was a chunk of change, though, I think that was double what our gross economy was at the time. But it's a pretty good investment. That's a great investment. Yeah. Could you imagine, though, how weird that would be if it had gone a different way? The United States could have ended it about the Mississippi River, which it did at the time. Yeah. And just beyond that, on the other side, could have been Spain. Right. Or not Spain, but you know what I mean? Spanish colony. Well, it could have been a lot like Africa. Like, all these former colonies that are just, like, adjacent to one another. But this is a French colony. This is a Belgian colony, this is a British colony. And I think the Brits controlled Canada and like the Oregon Territory at the time. Yes. Yeah. We were all sandwiched kind of in there together. So we buy from the French, we go fight the Spanish for the rest of it. And in between all of this, we send Lewis and Clark to go check out what had just been bought. And this expedition was going to happen anyway, but we thought that we were going to have to ask for permission to go through this area, right? But now, all of a sudden, it was America. And that added a facet to this expedition that hadn't been there before, which was basically informing the Indians that they were now living in America and they had a new great father, which is how Merriweather Lewis put it, how he described TJ. Yeah, you have a new great father who lives in a lodge in Washington, DC. And you can come visit him and see how great it will be to live under his patronage, but not really sign this treaty. So he was his private secretary, lewis was his kind of personal aide, and he knew what kind of dude he was, maybe drank a little too much, was prone to depression, but he sort of gave him this job to help him out. He thought he'd be good for it, don't get me wrong. Right. He groomed him for the position, but, yeah, he had a vested interest in the man. And he's like, this can be really good for Lewis. This is what he needs. Right. He's 29 years old, which is remarkable to me. Good sharpshooter. He said, you pick your partner. He picked William Clark, who was his former captain, I believe, in the army, a couple of years older. And he looked up to Clarke quite a bit. I was like, I need you, brother, because you complete me. Right? Which, by the way, we should probably say there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Louis and Clark were ever gay. Clarke definitely wasn't. Is that a rumor? Yeah, there's a lot of conjecture about it, really. Merriweather Lewis, he courted several women and was rejected by all of them. He was a total eligible bachelor. Never married, never was engaged or betrayed or anything. So, of course, as time wore on, people were like, well, he must have been gay. There's been a lot of conjecture. And they've come up with the idea that he probably wasn't gay, but that he was bi. He had something of an aversion to women that was not necessarily based on any kind of sexual orientation. He just didn't know what he was doing and he didn't feel comfortable around women. Well, like we said, he was, by all accounts, manic depressive. So he's kind of a messed up guy in a lot of ways. A little bit semi tragic figure, he said, yeah, and we'll get to that. Well, there are a couple of main goals. The main goal for Jefferson was, hey, I want to find this all water route to the sea that's really important for trade. And also, hey, let's check out this thing we just bought and go out and record as much of it as you can. Animals, plants, people. What the heck is out there? Basically come back and tell us. Right. And Louis wasn't exactly a slouch when it came to this kind of stuff. His mother was a celebrated herb doctor in Virginia. Yeah. She knew what she was doing, and she kind of raised him in the woods. So he was pretty good at botany. But to kind of further his education and not just that, but all sorts of other things that would come in handy on the expedition, jefferson sent him to the American Philosophical Association, which is the first learned society in North America. And basically he underwent this, like, grueling crash course of everything from astronomy to cartography to geology, medical training, everything you would need, they basically just filled Lewis head with. And he in turn, filled Clark in on a lot of it, too. Yeah. Also a lot of what they might encounter in ways of we'll call them Indians for the purposes of the show because that's what they call them. Right. And Jefferson is like, and don't forget to call me Great Father. It's awesome. So Lewis is in Pittsburgh or in Philadelphia getting this training. He writes to Clark, says, Please join me on this, and you are my captain. I'm a captain now. We're going to be co captains on this. Just so there's not any kind of weirdness or anything like that. I was chosen to leave the expedition, but I'm choosing you for help. But let's do this evenly. Which is unheard of, and it actually even more unheard of. It worked out really well. Yeah, it did. There wasn't any kind of like back biting or problems. They actually ran. It a bit like a democracy, too. Yeah. In the end, they were kind of described as a family, like really, really tight knit. I kept waiting for the story to go off the rail. Right. But it didn't. They really hung together and stuck together after some initial discipline problems. Once they kind of weeded out, I think from summer to fall, they kind of weeded out some of the bad apples. Well, what's funny, one guy got discharged for mutantus axe and another guy got discharged for desertion. But this happened in the middle of the first leg of the trip. So they had to stay on until they could get them to a place where they could go back. So they just had them doing hard labor the whole time. Wow. So they brought along a couple of people of note. One, Clark took his slave York, that he had had since he was a kid. He was the only black guy and only slave on the Adventure Party, we'll call it. He was technically a man servant, I guess, like a valet or something like that. To Clark outside of the expedition, but on the expedition, York was basically just a member of the party. Yes, he was a member of the party. He played a really great role in diplomacy because the American Indian had never seen black people before, and they didn't have hang ups, obviously, like white people did. So they're like, this guy is awesome. He's huge, and he's strong, and look at that amazing black skin that's even darker than ours. They really thought he was great. And I'm sure all the white people on the thing were like, well, yeah, look at me. What about me? My pale white skin? I'm friends with the great father, but he played a great role in diplomacy and, like you said, was generally treated pretty well, although he did get sort of some of the crap duties. Well, plus, he also got royally screwed over at the end of the expedition. Yeah. We'll get to that, though. Okay. And so we have York with Clark, and then Lewis purchased a dog for $20 named Seaman. And they used to think it was scanning because these guys handwriting was so bad. Really? Yeah. Basically a century. Like, everybody thought it was scanning for two centuries, and then somebody figured out, well, wait a minute. Why is one of these rivers called Siemens Creek? Right. And then they realized, wait, that's the dog. That's the dog. Everybody, by the way, had something named after them, and they had trouble coming up with names for everything, like the York Islands of Montana. Everybody on that tour had something named after them, which is kind of neat. So he's a Newfoundland dog, and he made it the whole way. We're happy to go ahead and spoil that one. Yeah, which is great, because they ate dogs, by the way, at some point on this trip, they ate a lot of horse. Yeah, they did. So, like you said, they started in Pittsburgh, but the official start was really in St. Louis in December of 18 three. And they were like, all right, let's hit the river. The Missouri River. Well, that's where they assembled camp in wintered, St. Louis. And they sold all their people and ran them through, like, army training and took the best of the best. They officially started in May, the following spring. Of course, you wouldn't start in the winter. Right. So they had a big keelboat and a couple of smaller canoes and said, let's hit the river. And they did. So let's do it. Because, again, ultimately, Jefferson was looking for a Northwest Passage across the continent to the Pacific, and he wanted to see if you could basically ride a river all the way across the country. Yeah, by the time I think they were about 45 people at first. But when they eventually whittled it down, the official Corps Discovery was 33 people. Right. So they head out and they start going upstream up the Missouri River. And it was rough going at first. They literally pulling their boat out from outside the water, waist deep, by tow rope against the current again. Yeah. They're going upstream the whole way to the source of the Missouri River. Yeah. So the first Indians they encountered well, not the first. The first situation they encountered were the Titansou or the Lakota. And they're actually warned by previous American Indians, like, watch out for these guys. They're basically the mafia of the Missouri River. Oh, yeah. Like, they'll demand payment, they'll take your goods, they'll control the trade. Yeah. They wanted them to trade exclusively with them. Yeah. And they had done this to the French and the Spanish for years. And I think Lewis called them the pirates of the Missouri. But when they did reach them, it came to a standoff over a canoe. They gave them their gifts. The first thing they would do whenever they encountered a new tribe was to give them these trinkets, tell them about the Great Father, give them handkerchiefs and things like, we come in peace. And with the Teitan Sue, though, there was a standoff over a canoe that they wanted, and they were like, we're not giving you this canoe. And it literally came to a point where guns were raised and hundreds of Indians had their arrows pointed at them, and it was about to go down, and Chief Black Buffalo intervened. I was like, you know what? Let our women and children tour your really cool boat that we've never seen and meet all you guys, and then you all can have safe passage. So they managed to get through there unscathed, but that was their first run in where they're like, man, this could go down pretty badly. Yeah. And luckily, that was one of just a few, I think as far as cross country, uncharted Expeditions. Uncharted Expeditions go, this one about as good as you could possibly hope for. Yeah, it was super peaceful. They were the core discoveries. Other than the core bloodshed or something. Well, they only shot one bullet in anger the entire trip. Is that right? It was pretty remarkable. And that is neat. So they hit the Great Plains, and that might as well have been Mars to them, if you think about it. If you've never been west of I think there's a saying that a squirrel can jump from tree to tree until it hits the Mississippi. Oh, yeah. And so when they hit the Great Plains, they had never seen anything like it. Like, there were no trees. It's just plains. It's just plains. And they were absolutely blown away by this. And there they encountered the Mandan and Minotauri or Hidatsa Indians. Right. And they decided, all right, this is pretty good place to build a camp here for a few months. And they built Fort Mandin, which they named after one of the local tribes. And they were buddies. They lived together in harmony. Right. They forged friendships, they were visited by locals, and something big happened here, which we'll get into in a second. But first, let's do a message brand. Okay, Chuck. So we're at Fort Mandy, which is where? In South Dakota, I think. Yes. They were having a good time, hanging out, having lots of sex with the local ladies. Yeah. There's a big problem with venereal disease on the expedition because they were having a lot of sex with Indians, and the Indians had syphilis, which is something that was unknown to Europeans, and Europeans contracted it very easily. So that was a big thing. Well, that was another thing about Lewis, too. Apparently, like everybody else in the expedition, had sex with Indian women, and he stayed away from it. His journal entries about Indian sexual practices were very, like, snide, I think, is the way one person put it. Yeah. He's an odd ducket. I get what if he tried to put on lo that he was just cleaning up and they're like, Louis, it doesn't hurt when he pees. Like something's going on. It doesn't burn. I don't think he's having sex. He's an outlaw. He says he had sex with all those women. Right. Burns when I pee. Is it burn when you pee? Doesn't burn when Lewis Peas yeah. So apparently burning when you pee was a big thing on this core of discoveries. Discovered syphilis, too. All right. So the other important thing that happened here, which is I think what you were getting to, was they hired a French Canadian trapper named Tucson Sharbano, but what they were doing was hiring his wife. Yeah. Sakaguia. Sakagaway or Sakaguia. I didn't mispronounce it. You didn't mispronounce it. There's a lot of pronunciations. Yeah. But there's only one that's right. And the right one is based on the journal entries of Lewis Clark, everybody else on the expedition. Because this was an expedition, everyone was expected to make notes. Yeah. They were all writing stuff down. Right. And Sakagoia is mentioned dozens of times in these journals because she did do some outstanding stuff. Oh, yeah. And she's mentioned phonetically, so it's Saka Gawillia. Also, at some point, it's also mentioned that her name is Shashoni for birdwoman. And then Shoshani sakaga is bird and Wiya is woman. So it's Sacagawea, not Saka joya. That's right. Well, I mean, that's a big point. It's true. Although in the Ken Burns thing, these historians all pronounced it differently, which was sort of frustrating. Yeah. There's Saka Koeka. Yeah. And then Saka Julia. Yes. One of the ladies called her straight up saka julia. I was like, straight up. Saka julia So she was very important because, A, she was a translator, b, she was essentially a white flag everywhere they went. Yeah. And I don't think we said this, but by the time they broke camp to leave, she had a baby. Yeah. She actually gave birth to her first child in Fort Mandy, jean Baptiste Charbono. Yeah. Who is pretty cool. Grew up to be pretty cool, for sure. But Sakaguia, if we say Saka Gawa too, I think that's fair. Okay. She was 16 at the time, and she was married to Char Vanilla. She was one of two of his wives, and I didn't hear anything about the other. I didn't either show any woman. Did she not go along? I don't think so. Okay. All right, so she, John Baptiste and Tucson were a family. Even though Sakuraguia was Tucson's slave wife, like, he'd purchased her. Yeah. But she was Shoshone, and the reason why she was so valuable is because the expedition leaders had found out that the Shoshone were known for their horsing abilities, and the expedition had two horses that they set out with. And we're like, we're going to need a lot more. Sure. At some point, we need to trade with the Shoshone when we make it to the Rockies, and we will need this woman. And she comes in handy to a spectacular degree in this sense. Yeah. And not only was she a white flag, she was just great for the spirit of the camp to have a woman there. And the baby was a charmer, too. Oh, of course. You can't pull up with a woman and a baby and say, like, we're warring people. Exactly. Apparently across all tribes along the plains, if you have a woman and a baby in your party, you're automatically not a war party, and therefore you come in peace. Yeah. And she was also pretty awesome. Charbonneau himself was described as quite average, but Chicagoay was the real deal. Like, one of the bravest members of the expedition, and at 1.1 of the boats overturned and they lost we're losing a lot of their important records and things, and she was the main one that was like, boom, in the water, retrieving this stuff, while Charvano I don't know what he was doing. Who knows what Charvino was doing? But psychic Gowie was swimming, retrieving the stuff. This is after she given birth. This is why she's breastfeeding walking scores of miles in any given week. She was pretty tough. Yeah. And, you know, we'll go ahead and spoil this. The baby, like we said, lived it, made it all the way there and back, this brand new baby, till the age of about, I guess, two and a half. And he just stole William Clark's heart. Yeah. He loved him. He ended up adopting him. He did. He adopted them and educated him in St. Louis. Yeah. After she died, he adopted both her kids much later, but yeah, his name was Jean Baptiste, the baby, and he was nicknamed Pompey because of his pompous little dancing antics. Clarke found him to be quite a little dancer. So the other way that Sakura Gawa was helpful to this expedition was that she was a translator. She could speak Sashoni, obviously, she could also speak HiData, and so her husband could speak Hadata. So if she was speaking to a Shoshoni, let's say they encountered a Shoshone person, the Shishani would speak to sucker gawi. She would say what they said in Hadata to her husband. Her husband would say in French what had just been said in Hadatta to another man, who would in turn tell William and Mary Weather what had been said in English. Yeah, that was the translation line. And psychic away was the pivotal point of this as far as speaking to Plains tribes went. Yeah. And you would think that setting it up to say, and, like, big problems arose because of it, but it really worked pretty well. No, because they're also trained in plain sign language, too. Apparently, there was a lot of gesturing that was fairly universal that a lot of the people who were recruited in St. Louis originally were familiar with, too. Yeah, they got along pretty well. They did. Okay. All right. So after the Mandan villages, they broke camp and went on to the confluence of the Yellowstone with the Missouri and entered a land where they started seeing, like, when they hit the planes, they started seeing these crazy animals they'd never seen before. It's important to say they didn't discover anything. Yeah. It's very important to say that they were just the first white guys to record it for science. Yeah. But prairie dogs and elk and buffalo by the tens of thousands, antelope, all kinds of things to them that were just these weird animals. They actually sent a live prairie dog back to Jefferson, which is pretty neat. It's hilarious. And it made it all the way. Grizzly bears. They encountered those for the first time on this expedition. Yeah. They were warned of the grizzly by the Indians, and they were like, we've hunted brown bear and black bear. We know we're talking about bear. And then they were kind of like, Holy crap. In their journals. They were like, I've never seen anything like this. It took ten shots and we almost died. And the grizzly bear is to be reckoned with. Lewis said something like, I'd rather fight two Indians than one grizzly bear. Yeah. So here we are in early June. They reached the point where the Missouri divided that they weren't told about this fork. So, like, right. What should we do here? It went in equal parts, north and south. Yeah. I mean, it was like a hardcore left and right hardcore. Basically, everyone in the party agreed on one direction except Lewis and Clarke. They were like, we're old school. We, like, in sync. Yeah. So despite the fact that everyone disagreed, they followed them. And that just shows how united they were. They were like, you know what? We don't think you guys are right, but we're going to follow you because you are our captain. Right. And we want to see your faces when you realize you're wrong. Which actually would happen, but it wouldn't lead to eating each other like the diner party. No. So they keep mosing along, and they're doing pretty well, apparently. They got to a point where Clark looked down one day. I think it was Clark. It was possibly Lewis, too. It was Lewis. And he realized that a little stream at his feet was running west. And he realized that they just crossed the Continental Divide. Yeah. That was the mouth of the Missouri that they were literally straddling with their feet. Yeah. And that meant that now they just left the Missouri and we're going to hook up first. They went on to the Snake River, but that would take them to the Columbia River, which by their reckoning, would take them to the Pacific Ocean. So they'd made it like a substantial amount of distance. Yeah. That was a depressing moment, though, for Lewis, because he thought when he reached that ridge, that he would look and see just downhill to the ocean. And what he saw was Rocky Mountains, Nevada. Yeah. And he was like, oh, man, this is not going to be very easy. No, we didn't know about the Rocky Mountains. No. And even still, when they finally do think that they see the ocean, they still were 25 miles away from it. When they finally get to that point, which we'll get to. Oh, sorry. That's right. So what they ended up doing, they made a mistake because there was a shortcut they could have taken. Oh, really? It would have taken four days. And instead they had to go work their way around the Great Falls of Montana, which took 53 days of portage. Uneasy portage. Yeah. Because this portage was like carrying these boats, but also these guys were in, like, moccasins and stuff, and they had a huge problem with prickly pear, which would just go right through your moccasin. And it's basically like stepping on nails the whole time while you're carrying a very heavy boat. Yeah. And all your supplies, whisky and food, salt. So on July 25, they arrived at another fork, three Forks. They named them the Gallatin for the Secretary of treasury, the Madison for the Secretary of State and the Jefferson. And decided to follow the Jefferson because there was more to it, I think. Yeah. And I think they were like, this is the one that is going to head west. Right. So they follow that, I think, at this point, either right before or right after they meet up with the Shushoni. Have they met the Sashoni yet? Well, at this point, Lewis went off by himself and a couple of more people to find the Sashoni, including Saka Gawai. Right. Oh, no, she wasn't there yet. I don't think she was there yet. Okay. But he did find them and he basically said, hey, we come in peace. We have a camp back here. We want you to come hang out at. Well, they were in bad shape, apparently. This has shown you were oh, they were, yeah. They were pretty worse for the wear and very docile as a result. So. He met these women and children and told them all that stuff, and they came back and hung out with them. And at Camp Sakaguaya recognized one of the women. That Clark. Was it Clark or Lewis? I think at this point, it was both who they came back with and said, hey, we found some Shoshoni. And she said, hey, that's actually my BFF from first grade. Yeah. Because remember, Psychic Away, I had been kidnapped and sold. So there were still members of her tribe living around the Rockies, and she actually met up with them and with her brother, who was now chief. Yes. She was like you're, chief. And he said, you know it, little sister. Yes. And he went, you're married to a French trapper. She's like, that guy? Not really. He bought me. Which is not funny at all. So then they proceeded across the Continental Divide to the main village with the Shoshonees and hired on a tour guide, Old Toby, which is a great name for an Indian tour guide. Sure. And said, Toby said, I'll lead you through these mountains, but we're going to need some horses to eat because it's going to be rough and to travel with. Right. But this is where they were really eating a lot of horse meat. Yeah. The Bitter Root Mountains. It was pretty rough through Montana and Idaho, and that was when their spirits were never broken, but that's when they were dampened, for sure. So when they make it to the Bitter Roots, I don't remember why they did or where, but there was a point where they said, we can't use these horses anymore. I guess it's when they got onto the Columbia River. Right. Well, maybe. Is this where they were eating salmon and the salmon was making them sick? Yeah. So they come to a Nez Pierce village with Old Toby, I believe it at the lead. Yes. And they're celebrated. Welcome. They throw a feast for them, and it makes everybody violently ill in the expedition. They're like, this salmon is awful. Yeah. Or these roots or whatever. I'll bet it was the roots that got them. Yeah, I think it was. So apparently everyone recovered, but they say, okay, well, here's the Columbia River. We can't really use these horses anymore. I think one of the things that's very much overlooked in the history of this expedition is just how much the Card discovery relied on friendly tribes. So, like, when they hit the Columbia River, they said, hey, Shashoni, or no Nez Pierce friends, will you watch our horses for us? And the nez pierce said yes. You guys go to the Pacific Ocean? When you come back, we'll have your horses. Go ahead and brand them so you know which ones are yours. And they did. Yeah. They left their horses with Denez Pierce. Yeah. It was kind of a best case scenario story for most of the trip. Yeah, it's pretty cool. And that is actually too, where they traded for dog to eat, which was one of the only disappointing parts of the story for me, that and what happened new York. All right, so this point, it's mid October. It floated down to the Great Falls of the Columbia, which is now solely falls. I think about how much easier it was at this point, like, they're not going upstream any longer. They get with the current. True. But it was the Oregon Territory, so they were getting rained on constantly. It was pretty brutal conditions, but you're right. It wasn't like, slugging through in the summertime, pulling that boat upstream, stepping on prickly pear. Exactly. So this is where on November 7, they thought that they saw the ocean. It's actually a bay about 25 miles inland, and one of them said, Ocean in view. Ocini, love the ocean. Otean. In the same paragraph. They misspelled ocean two different ways. Give them a break. Come on. Finally, by mid November, they strode upon the sands of the Pacific. And this is the really sad part, is that Mary Weather called it tempestuous and horrible. He wasn't like, oh, we made it. He was depressed. And he was like, this isn't like the Atlantic Ocean. This is rocky and beating us with waves. Like the Oregon coast is rough. And he didn't cotton to it. But what he did cotton to was being an accurate dude. By dead reckoning, over the course of over 4100 miles, he was only off by 40 miles. Wow. In charting this ride, that is pretty amazing. It's pretty remarkable. So, Sakaguia, one of the reasons she signed on, aside from being a slave to her husband, who signed her on, was that she wanted to see the Pacific. She had heard about the great waters. Yeah. And so when they were getting closer, she petitioned Louis and Clark, saying, like, there's no way you can't let me not come with you to see the Pacific Ocean itself. Right. And they let her come along. They had word from some local tribe I'm not sure which one it was that there was a monstrous fish on the beach. And Louis and Clerk are like, I bet they're talking about a whale. We should go get some blubber and take a way. It's like, I'm there. I'm coming with you. So they took her along, and they all got to go see the Pacific Ocean. That was personal that first time. Yeah. They got a bunch of blubber and oil and stuff from it, and it died first. So you can keep liking Lewis and Clark. They camped there on the Pacific for a full four months. Yeah. Basically, they were trying to two things. They were trying to decide what to do. And technically, they were waiting for a boat to come by, a letter of credit from Jefferson that said, hey, if you're a boat, give these people a ride back and we'll pay you like good money. Right. I read that they never seriously thought that they were going to take a boat back. Well, that was the deal is, technically, they were supposed to be waiting for a boat. What they were really doing was just sort of weighing their options as to how best to go back and win. And this is the really cool part. They put it to a vote. They did put it to a vote. And it was a vote that included an African American and a woman and a native American. Yeah. Sakaguaya and York, both their votes were given equal weight to everybody else's. Yeah. It was very cool where to set up camp for the winter. Yeah. So they elected to cross the river to the south, where they were informed that there was elk and deer. You can hole up here, you can hunt all winter. And they did. And prepare yourself for the return journey home, which we'll get to after this message break. All right, so here we are at Fort Clattsop, Oregon. Oregon, named after the Clapsop tribe. They were hunting, they were storing up. They were getting their provisions in order, getting ready to go back, and they haul butt on the way back. They did. Yeah. You know how it is. Sure. It doesn't take as long, because now you know how long it's going to take. Yeah. And they weren't stopping to record everything they did. Actually, prairie dogs. We've already seen it. Been there. But the group wasn't as happy. They were irritable. Especially Lewis. He kind of fell into a depression on the way home. Did he come out of it at all while they were at the Pacific, or did it just stick the whole time? Well, I mean, I think it was up and down. Basically, they believe when he was not recording in his journal, he was depressed. Okay. But he is remarkable in that he soldiered on like this is a manic depressive who was still getting up every day and doing this. And the worst thing he did was not journal. Actually, the worst thing he did was on the way back, he stole a canoe at one point, which is really out of character, and he was described as kind of like, cracking at the seams at this point, which is really sad. So, March 2318, six, they started back up to Columbia with these new canoes, bartered for some horses, and camped with the Nest Pierce for a month. No, they got their horses back from the Nez Pierce. Those horses? Those were theirs, the ones they break? No, this was before they got back there to the Nest Pierce. They bartered for some horses and then eventually hooked back with the Nest Pierce and camped for, like, a month. And got their horses back. Got their horses back. I think that's your favorite part of this thing. It's cool. They're like, hey, guys, will you hang on to this board. They also sunk their canoes at a certain point. And then that was neat. Went back and got those. Yeah. To keep the canoes from being sent down river. They just sunk them and then they came back and got them. It's pretty cool. So they basically retraced their trail through the bitter roots. Only one retrograde march and the entire journey. Which means you have to double back, basically, which is in itself pretty remarkable. And then on July 3 18 six, they separated back where they were at that original shortcut that they should have taken and said, hey, let's send off some different factions here and do a little bit more exploring and a little bit more recording of things. We slacked off. Well, yeah, because they were kind of like I said, they were home, but on the way home. Yeah. This is where Lewis where they ran into their first kind of violent episode with the Black Feet Indians. And a dude shot at Lewis. He shot back, hit the guy in the belly. Another guy stabbed the Black Feet Indian. Or is it a blackfoot Indian? I think Blackfoot. Okay. And they rode away like the Black Feet did. But two of them died. And it was sad they had gone all that way without violence. And they finally kind of had to. Their hand was forced, essentially. Chuck. Also, there was another shooting that took place during this period, but this one was accidental. Oh, yeah. Lewis was actually shot when he was mistaken for an elk while he was out hunting with a member of the expedition, Pierre Cruzette. And Crusade didn't fess up to it immediately. He was like, I guess some Indians. It must have been those black feet. And finally, when they searched the area and found no sign of Black Feet, cruise out, was like, I'm sorry, I thought you were an elk. I'm blind in one eye, don't forget. But I'm this little player and everybody loves me. Yeah, exactly. And Lewis was like, we'll just let it go. And apparently was really in a lot of pain. It hit him in a dry. And he had a very long and difficult recovery for the rest of the time. But it was about this time when everybody came back together. Yeah. And we're sort of simplifying this part of the story. But they eventually did all meet back up pretty remarkably. Like I think the story is. One of them rounded a bend and right as they did that, the others were rounding the Ben and they were like, oh, hey, it's you like it's. You out here in the middle of nowhere. So they eventually went back to the Mandan villages. That is where the Charbonneau family left the expedition. And that is where Private John Coulter, who was one of the men, said, you know what St. Louis like? I didn't like it there. I really like it out here. Can I go back and they're like, sure, man. Go west, young man. Exactly. And he did. So he did. He was going to work with some French trappers, and they had a following up pretty quickly after. And then this guy, Coulter, he went off on his own, and they think he was the first white person to enter what's now? Yellowstone park. And he was the first to recount the geysers. And even still, there's part of it called Coulter's Hill. Oh, cool. The Geyser area of Yellowstone. Very cool. So reportedly, the only thing they did not run out of on the way home was powder, lead paper and ink. Wow. Or at least that's what Ken Burn says. You know how they put a little cherry on top of everything? Right. Finally, in September of 18, six on the 23rd, they arrived victorious in St. Louis, and the river was lined with people cheering for them, shooting their guns in the air. And we should point out, everyone thought they were dead. Oh, yeah. For a long time. Like they were sending messages back and prairie dogs. But then at a certain point, that just wasn't possible. Right. So even Jefferson had given up hope. They've been like, they've been going for two and a half years. We're not going to hear from Louis and Clark again. And then they did. And then they did. And covered about 8000 miles over two years, four months and nine days. Discovered. I'm sorry, not discovered. Saw recorded 122 animals that they had never seen, 178 plants that they had never seen, and did a pretty darn good job of cartography. Right. Cartography. Is that even a word? Yeah, I think it is. Drawn maps. That was great. Describing the Rocky Mountains. And Jefferson was like Rocky Mountains. I have mountains now. What are those? And they were like, they're snowcapped even in the summer. And they've never seen any of this. They're blown away. So after this, Clark sets up shop in St. Louis. Yeah. They doubled everyone's pay, which was nice, and gave everyone a bunch of land. Right. You got, I think, 320 acres. Williamson clark got 1600 each, but the rest of the guys got, like, 320, almost. The rest, two people did not get any land or any money, and that was Sakaguaya and York, which sucks. Yeah. And apparently York had a difficult reentry into slavery. I can imagine. So can you think about living like that and then going back to being a slave? Yeah. And so he asked Clark for his freedom. He's like, I know I don't get land stuff, but how about my freedom? And Clarke was like, no. And not only that, he wrote his brother a letter and said, york has been kind of uppity since he got back. He's not being a good slave, and he's having trouble. And so I had to beat him. No. Yeah. That was the one time where I was like, oh, man. Yeah, that's pretty awful. This was really headed in the good direction. And all that had to happen was he could have just said, yes, you are free. And then it would have been the best story ever. Man, that's really awful. I had no idea about that. Yeah. And then there were various accounts that he might have been freed a few years later or perhaps escaped. No one is quite for sure. Even though I've noticed Ken Burns does a lot of factual stating of things that are disputed. Yeah. Like, he just said straight up that he was freed five years later. And I read up on it, and people like, maybe not. Ken Burns just does whatever his haircut tells him. I'm a sucker for those things, though. I mean, I know a lot of documentary filmmakers kind of poopoo him. Oh, yeah. It takes a certain interpretation that's that exactly like you said. So. Lewis, wait. Hold on. I'm really disappointed in Clark. I know. That stinks. What do you want me to do? I don't know. It is very, I guess, talk about Lewis. Yeah. I mean, Clarke went on, we should say, to have a very successful rest of his career. Well, hold on. You want bright side? Okay. Bill Clinton in 2001, gave Apostrophe rank sergeant in the army to York. Oh, great. So that's kind of nice. Way to go, Clinton. Today there are some statues commemorating York. One in Louisville, Kentucky, I think. There's one. At Lewis and Clark College in Portland and Kansas City. There's one. So he's definitely been smiled upon historically as a great man and adventurer. Great by everyone but William Clarke. Yeah. And his family, who was like, no. So Louis had some difficulties upon returning home. He's made appointed Governor of the Upper Louisiana Territory. And things started out well, but then he kind of got into financial trouble, I think his territory got into financial trouble. Right. Yeah. He wasn't going to washington. He wasn't able to complete the big thing was he wasn't able to complete what he was supposed to do, which is come back and write about the whole thing. Yes. Those weren't published until 1814, which is eight years after they returned. And even then they were published after his death. Yeah. So his bio counts. Pretty depressed. He was on his way to Washington, supposedly to plead for more money for the territory. Yeah. He had been called out on some finances, and he wanted to go clear that up. And supposedly he had some of his journals that he wanted to turn in. I got you. It's like here, I've got this. Right. And he fell out of favor a little bit with Jefferson because of all that, which kind of stinks it is because he was groomed by Jefferson. It was a family friend. Like, they were friends. So Lewis, I guess, is on his way to Washington? He's following the Nachos Trail. Nachos trace. And he stops in Tennessee at a place called the Grinders Inn. Yeah. Near Nashville. And that's where he died, apparently crawling toward the innkeeper's. Wife shot, bleeding, asking for water, and she just, like, screamed and ran away. Yeah. And this is another disputed thing. Was he killed or did he commit suicide? If you Google death of Merriweather Lewis, it comes up suicide, but it is definitely a dispute. Yes. And Ken Burn straight up said he killed himself, and it was very sad. Well, the reason why it's in dispute is because he was shot in the abdomen and in the head. He was also an expert marksman. Yeah. And the suicide people, I think, reckon that back then, with guns, like, if you really want to do it, you would .1 at your chest and one at your head and squeeze at the same time. Oh, really? Yeah. I hadn't heard of him, but he said he was murdered for money and what are you going to say? Nothing. Okay. Sadly, even though this story had a happy ending, it was sort of the beginning of the end of the American Indian. That's a pretty big thing to point out. Yeah. There was a great quote from one of the people in the documentary that said they left his students, came back as teachers, and sadly, America failed to learn the lessons that they had brought back with them, because if everything had gone the way of Lewis and Clark, it would have been awesome. They were basically like, hey, you got the great father. Like we said, we're going to live in harmony. And they believed him and they believed themselves. They weren't, like, pulling one over on them. And it's just sad that it went down a different way from that point forward, basically. You know what I'm saying? There was one brief moment when it could have gone a different way. Yeah. And that was it. But Clark and Louis also, I guess, kind of paved the way for the idea of Manifest Destiny. True. Although that wasn't coined until about 40 years after the expedition. They are always held up as this idea, and this is an idea that people subscribe to for a very long time, that America was destined to take up the area between the Pacific and the Atlantic. It was our destiny, and therefore anything that stood in our way should just fall before us as we swept outward toward the Pacific Ocean. The Injustifies, it means. And Lewis and Clark was like, look, they're an example of that. Yeah. Clarke eventually died of natural causes in 1838. Most of the rest of the party sort of just faded into history. Jean Baptiste oh, yeah. He didn't he became like not a cortison. That'd be a lady courtier. Right? One of the two, yeah. He was prince with a German prince. Oh, German prince. Prince Wilhelm. Okay. And I think the oldest survivor lived to be 99. Lived all the way to the Civil War. Oh, yeah. And at the age of 90, volunteered to fight for the Union. And I don't know if they took him up on it or they're just like, we get it. You're a legend, but we got this, so who knows? So that's the Lewis and Clark expedition. The core of discoveries. The dog lived, the baby lived. Yeah, the dog made it all the way. They only lost one person on the entire trip, charles Floyd. And he died early on of what they believe was probably appendicitis. Yes. Burst appendix. And it's pretty amazing. Yeah. They didn't have to eat each other. No. They didn't even eat the guy who died of the burst appendix. No, just dog and horse. Yeah. You got anything else? No. If you want to learn more about Chuck's favorite story from American history, you can type in Lewis and Clark in the search bar how Stuff works. And since they said search bar, it means it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this diplomatic community. Hey, guys. Last week, the Dutch police arrested the Russian diplomat Dmitri Borodin, and his home. They were called in by concerned neighbors because the diplomat was drunk, hitting his kids, dragging them by their hair through the house. The police arrived and was witnessed to the brutality against the children and also established that Mr. Bordin was extremely drunk. They had no choice but to arrest him to protect the children from further abuse. Immediately, the Russian government came into action, and Putin the devil incarnate, if you ask me. This is from Jasper. Demanded his release and apologies from the Netherlands. That same afternoon, I started listening to the latest stuff you should know. Lo and behold, it was about diplomatic immunity. As a podcast through to a close, I received a news update on my phone that the Dutch government had apologized to the Russians for the arrest because it violated the Treaty of Vienna. Immunity won out again. Since then, UNICEF has issued a statement that the well being of the children should be more important than diplomatic immunity. Maybe something will finally change. Probably not. Personally, I hope we declare boredon persona non Gratata, but that seems unlikely. Anyway, want to share this actuality of your podcast with you? It's pretty weird that it happened when it did, and luckily it wasn't about floods or earthquakes. And that is from Jasper in Amsterdam, one of my favorite cities. Nice. Thanks a lot, Jasper. That's pretty interesting. I love it when things happen like Sympatico. Like that. Yeah. Confluence. Yeah. Well, if you have a Confluence email you want to send us, you can send us an email to stuffpodcast@discovery.com. You can also hit us up on Facebook. We have a page at facebook. Comwichno. We have a Twitter handle. We're verified now. It's pretty awesome. That's S-Y-S-K podcast. And you can join us at our good old home on the web. It's called Stuffunctiono.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetopworks.com. Brought to you by the all new 2014 Toyota Corolla Summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good it's criminal. Morbid part true crime and part comedy, Morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Alex Erkart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this chart topping series will have you hooked before you know it. 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833b7d5c-3b0d-11eb-b411-f39bff9e0935 | Hell! Hell! Hell! | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/hell-hell-hell | What is Hell? It's complicated and depends on which religion you're talking about. We dive into this fiery mess and do our best to explain it.
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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | Tue, 12 Jan 2021 10:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2021, tm_mon=1, tm_mday=12, tm_hour=10, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=12, tm_isdst=0) | 54633185 | audio/mpeg | "Picture this, friends. You could be packing a carry on for a trip to Hawaii when you realize you're going to need a bigger bag. But it's cool because you booked your flight with your city Advantage Platinum Select Card. So you can check a bag for free on domestic travel and still have room for those souvenirs. And surprise, those souvenirs also earned you Advantage Miles. Actually, you earned Advantage Miles and loyalty points with each swipe. So let's start dreaming about your next next adventure. This could be you, and you could be anywhere with the city Advantage Platinum Select Card. Learn more at citi comAdventure and travel on with cityadvantage. You know you're a pet mom when you plan your vacation around your pet. At Halo, we get it because we're pet moms, too. We make natural, high quality pet food that's rooted in science. It's the world's best food for the world's best kids. Learn more@halopets.com. Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W. St, Chuck Bryant and St. Jerome. Roland is out there as well. I'm not a saint, I'm a sinner. And this is stuff you should know. The first real episode of the new year, it is Chuck. It's beyond the future now. It's 2021. That's so futuristic. No one ever even used it in a Sci-Fi book. That's right. We had our what we like to call our elementary school Christmas break, which means it's about three and a half weeks long. We work hard for that. We do. So you better treat us right. That's right. How was your holiday? Good. It was good. I finally got to just kind of disconnect and decouple and just relax. I went the entire time without cracking my computer open. I was really proud of that. Wow. Yeah. I couldn't believe it. I did stuff on my phone that I needed to, but there was a ban on opening my laptops, even just for funsies? Yeah, no porn. I didn't want to see a computer or a keyboard for a little while, and I was able to do it. That's good. The porn was all just like I just made drawings myself. Right. Flipbooks. I love doing things on my laptop, but I was proud of myself for not looking at any work emails. I did a little bit at first because there's some buttoning up into the year stuff, but then I was just like, you know what? And you know what I put is my. I mean, you've seen my occasional auto reply, which is, if it's an emergency, please realize that there are no podcast emergency. Which is sort of true, I think. 100% true, actually. And you got your slide whistle. I did. I don't have it with me right now or else, like, dang, sorry, we got to debut the slide whistle later because I got to hear that thing. Yes, we do. Thank you. For that. Did you get your gift from me? I did. Okay, good. I thought that you would find that wildly appropriate. And it helped out our buddy, too. That's right. We're just going to wade into some peasy waters here with hell. Hell. This is tough, man. I was like, who's, dumb idea with this. And I realized it was mine. I never forgot. Yeah. The COA here is that people like, I think the Grabster helped us put this together. He said people make their entire careers out of just Dante's Inferno, much less concepts of hell. And it is very broad, indents and confusing. And so this is sort of just a stuff you should know stab at it. Yeah. And let me just add to that that we are in no way, shape or form biblical scholars, no theologian, no, we're going to get a lot of stuff wrong. We're probably going to walk right past interpretations that are popular and widely accepted. Correct. This is just us talking about hell. So just relax. We already know we're going to hell, so there's nothing you can do if that's any worse. So just calm down and enjoy the episode. How about that? Enjoy this episode about eternal conscious torment. Yeah. And if you are a scholar of Dante, just don't even listen. Yeah. You will literally puke into your cupped hands while you're listening to this on the train because you're that polite. That's right. Go back and listen to the science of cute again. Wow. That was a reference to something that doesn't even exist yet. That's heady. Yeah. So, Chuck, I want to talk first. I mentioned eternal conscious torment, and that is kind of like the broad spectrum of what most people walking around today in the Western world, whether they're Christian or just familiar with the Christian concept of hell. Think of hell. It's where your soul is tormented, beaten up, bullied, maybe talked about behind its back, set on fire. And in this state, there's no dying. There's no death of the soul. The soul is immortal. So this pain, this torment, this horribleness, just keeps going on forever and ever and ever. And that comes directly from St. Augustine, who kind of plays big into this concept of hell. But the idea that there's an immortal soul, that it goes somewhere after death and that depending on how it behaved here on Earth, it may or may not face eternal conscious torment, that is seriously it's a theological term that they use today that strikes some people, some theologians is wildly disproportionate to the kinds of sins we're talking about here. You overindulged in Fudge brownie mix during your time on Earth means that you're going to be to suffer a literal, neverending, infinite, eternal torment of damnation because you overindulged in brownie mix. That just doesn't quite jibe for some people. So there have been other alternatives that were posed many years ago that were actually around in some cases before eternal conscious torment came around that some people are saying, like, hey, maybe this is a better interpretation of what's actually going on with Hell. Are you familiar with those other interpretations? Well, which ones? Namely, universalism and annihilationism. No, this was the thing that I was saying. We got to talk about these. So check this out. Let me wow you for a second, okay? Okay. Because these are, to me, the softer, jettler versions of Hell. One is that universalism. Another term is universal salvation. And it's this idea that there is an end, there's a finite date to the torment and that you're basically going to Hell depending on how badly you sinned. But over time, you can kind of work that sin off and you will eventually come out the other end saved and go to heaven. Okay? And that happens to everybody. Everyone can possibly go to Heaven through this idea. The other is annihilationism, which makes a lot of sense, too, if you believe in this kind of stuff, that the people who are saved, the righteous, the virtuous people who are going to go to Heaven, they go on to Heaven after they die. Everybody else just ceases to exist. They're annihilated upon death. There's no Hell, but there's no heavenly reward for those people. I like those a lot more than eternal conscious torment. The thing is, eternal conscious torment is so gripping that it's like, this is just what people think of when they think of Hell. And apparently, if you're an evangelical in particular and you believe in anything but eternal conscious torment, you're flirting with being shunned by your peers because you're going in the face of orthodoxy. Well, yeah, it's a lot to unpack. I know you grew up fairly Catholic, and I regret how many times I've had to say the word Baptist on this show. I feel like there's a lot of people taking a shot right now. If this is the stuff you should know. Drinking game. Yeah. But I can't not mention that growing up Baptist, it's a very fiery, brimstone religion. And I very much grew up with the concept, this very sort of trophy concept of Heaven is this lovely place where God lives. It's up there in the clouds. And you go up, and then if you're not good, then you go down to somewhere, I guess in the center of the earth where the devil lives and where Satan pokes you and where you are there's lakes of fire and it's all very scary. And it wasn't until I got a little bit older that I realized that these are stories told to get children in line. Yeah, and not just children, adults who go on to continue to believe in Hell and to subscribe to this stuff, for sure. It's definitely a way to keep people in line. But the concept of hell generally and the concept of souls and this is probably no surprise to most sort of critical thinkers. But the idea of being worm dirt and after you die, that's just it is a lot to take on as you approach that day. It makes a lot of sense, I think that people from very early on started to think about the concept of a soul, a self that lived on. And it just makes sense that there's a, quote, good place in a bad place. Yeah. But the thing is. Apparently it doesn't seem to have necessarily been just like part and parcel from what Ed is saying and from what I saw elsewhere in the research. Is that heaven seemed to have developed first very early on. And then there was a real emphasis on symmetry in the ancient and like. Premodern world where if you had one. You had the opposite in equal proportions. Right. So eventually, over time, that kind of was like, well, if there's this really lovely place that's like paradise after you die, then there has to be the opposite of that, the antithesis of that, too. And that's where this development of hell came from. But the fact that health hasn't always been around for as long as the idea of the afterlife, and then the idea that it hasn't always been this place where you were subject to the most cruel kinds of punishment available to the human imagination for overeating. Right, yeah. That's not as old as the idea of the afterlife either. That was really surprising to me. But it's pretty neat because it's weird. It's almost like humanity got infected by a germ of real meanness and darkness that we're still living with today and that you could kind of trace it in the evolution of our idea of hell as well. Right. Or to the beginnings of Twitter. That's right. That's evil incarnate. It depends on what religions you're talking about. But virtually every religion has some sort of afterlife concept. Early Judaism, of course, certainly does. If you read back, Ed described something from the Sumerian underworld where they kind of more talk about hell as or the afterlife, I guess is just sort of boring. And you didn't go to a fiery place where you're tormented. They talk about being thirsty and eating dust. Certainly unpleasant. Yeah. But then this idea starts where you can be in a better place in the afterlife according to what you've achieved on Earth, but not necessarily good deeds at first. Like, if you're really rich, then you're going to go to a good place because your family could afford to bury you with food and drink and jewels and gold and stuff like that to carry with you to the other side, and that would put you in a much better standing. But again, this is not like I was a good person. This is just I died rich. So all these really valuable things they could put underground and bury with me. Right. But in the same way, too, the living could care for you. You might not be rich, but your family might care so much about you that they come on every Sunday, whatever they called Sundays back when the sumerians were running around and bring you, like, a little food and a little beer or something like that. And they were sustaining you in this place where everybody else was eating dust and dirt. But your family so loved you because you've been such a good person during your time while you are alive that they were coming and bringing you, like, bread and beer. And in that sense, also, Chuck, is really kind of poetic because you, that person, are living on in the memories of your family after you died because they're coming and keeping your memory alive by bringing you bread and beer and all that. And so in that way, you are living on in this kind of immortal means as well. But the converse of that is really disturbing and that if you don't inspire people to care about you afterwards, you really cease to exist. There is no one on Earth who's thinking of you or honoring you. And in that sense, if there is no afterlife, that is annihilation. That is true oblivion. What Disney or Pixar movie is it? I saw it recently. That has to do with this. It's brutal, like you're being erased until you're remembered. After Death, eternal Sunshine, the Spotless Mind. Now I know. It's called inside out. Maybe. No, that's the one about the emotions, which is equally brutal. I don't think that's why I thought the kids, like, Imaginary Friend was being erased or demolished. Was that in that movie? I think so, yeah. Remember the elephant that was like George Clooney's friend? Richard, are you on right now? It certainly seems that way. I can't remember. And this is officially marks the first podcast of the year where people are screaming at us, which is, coincidentally, the first podcast of the year that we've recorded. That's right. I think it's Egypt, ancient Egypt, where the first idea of this weird sort of afterlife judgment panel sort of steps in where there are people literally in charge of this thing, almost like a bureaucracy and there's an administration. And it sounds a little bit more like Sammy Davis Jr's. Sitcom pilot that failed. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. She Devil. I don't remember. It definitely wasn't she devil. It was something like that, though. Yeah, but it was pretty good. The show was I mean, the 1 minute trailer I saw being pretty good. But the ancient Judaism sort of overlaps with some of this stuff. But Judaism, it's a whole different thing because they have the references. There's a lot of references to things that were later just sort of rewritten and retranslated as hell. Which makes it really confusing if you look at ancient texts. Yeah, judaism had Shield, which it kind of follows in that same tradition from the pre christian area that when you died, there was an afterlife and there wasn't much to it. It wasn't right. It wasn't particularly pleasant. Yeah. Apparently to the early Jews, they were basically saying, like, it's the state of mind after death more than like an interdimensional physical place that exists outside of this world. Not like a realm, but yeah, like you're saying, I guess, a state of mind as far as that goes. But it also suggests that you still have a mind after you die. Well, and it also suggests that there's a little bit of the punishment and reward, but it's not necessarily you go to the fiery place or you go to Heaven. It's a little more of a spiritual connection. Like, if you did good on Earth, you're going to spend your afterlife a little closer to God. If you're not such a great person, you're going to be a little further away from God. Right. But overall, the point of Seal was that no matter what you did on Earth, no matter who you were, good person, bad person, it doesn't matter. You were going to go to the same place. And even at the time, apparently, they realized that this was unjust. There's like a part of, I think, ecclesiastes that says the fact that everybody goes to the same place, no matter how good or bad you are in life, this is the injustice that is done under the sun. The same fate comes to everyone. Right. Which I didn't realize that ecclesiastes rhyme, but it's got a nice beat to it, nice tempo. It doesn't all rhyme, does it? I don't think so. I was kind of surprised that any of it rhyme. But that's a really important point, Chuck, that to these ancient people, whether they were the early Jews or the Canaanites or the Egyptians, there was not punishment in the afterlife. God punished you during life. Like you were suddenly like direct or something like that. That was punishment from God. As we kind of evolved away from that, the idea that God had a direct, daily hand in our lives as a species, that punishment moved to the afterlife rather than during this life. Right. Which is not recognized in Judaism, of course, as New Testament stuff. No. And there was something else that stuck out to me. We'll kind of see in a second. Judaism seems to have been developed as a religion as contrary to some of the other religious beliefs that were around. Like, they seem to have really kind of opposed the Canaanites. The Canaanites were into child sacrifice. They had multiple gods, and the Jews kind of played off of that. Like some of these devils that we understand today, demons like Malloc and Bio, BA, Apostrophe, Al, those were actually Canaanite gods. And they kind of perverted the pronunciation of them to kind of mock them or make them seem other or different. And you think, like, that's not very nice it's one religion disparaging another. But at the same time, the early Jews were saying, like, also, we shouldn't be sacrificing children. That's not a good thing to do. Let's practice this other thing instead. So I'm kind of a fan of early Judaism, it turns out. I had no idea. You should convert. I just might. Should we take a break? I think we should. All right, let's take a break. We'll read up a little bit on whether or not you're allowed to convert. Okay? Because I don't even know and then we'll be back right after this. What if you were a major transit system with billions of passengers taking millions of trips every year? You aren't about to let any cyberattacks slow you down. So you partner with IBM to build a security architecture to keep your data network and applications protected. Now you can tackle threats so they don't bring you to a grinding halt and everyone's going places, including you. Let's create cybersecurity that keeps your business on track. IBM, let's create. Learn more@ibm.com. These days, you use your personal info to do just about everything, especially when you're online. And guess what? With all that info just floating around out there, it can make the Internet a practical gold mine for identity thieves. And stealing your identity, it turns out, can be dangerously easy, which is not good. But now it's easy to protect yourself with LifeLock by Norton. Yes. LifeLock monitors your info and alerts you to potential identity threats. And if you are a victim of identity theft, a dedicated US based restoration specialist will work to fix it. Identity thefts have had it easy for far too long. Now, finally, it's your turn. Just remember, no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. But everyone can save up to 25% off their first year by going to LifeLock. comStuff that's Lifelock.com stuff for 25% off your first year. LifeLock identity theft protection starts here. Have you converted? I looked it up. I'm not allowed to. It would require me to be religious. Oh, wow. Interesting. Yeah. So we talked a little bit about the sort of the confusion of a lot of the confusion in what we think of as hell lies in just these texts, some Hebrew texts and translations and mistranslations and stories that are told, the old game of telephone that happened throughout the years while these things were passed on. So there's a lot of things that over the years that you've thought of sort of as a generic hell, like Hades, which was Greek, the Greek underworld, also synonymous with the shield, but not hell. There's Tartars, that's in the Old Testament, also from the Greeks that more closely resembles hell, from what I could tell. Yeah. And that's like a part of the underworld where gods imprisoned enemies. There's, like, punishment. It's fiery. And maybe that concept. A lot of this, what we're doing is sort of unpacking what we think of as Hell now and sort of where this stuff came from. And it seems like Tartarus is definitely one of those places. Yeah. And like Hades and she'll more closely resemble Purgatory or Limbo, where Tartarus yes, is definitely Hell. Hell like that's where torment and fire is. And all this stuff that's really kind of popped up to me. It's like, wow, what we think of as hell today. Even like the cartoon Hell with the pitchfork and the fire and all that stuff. It's a fun one. This is some ancient stuff that it's built on over eons. Like the earliest people who started burying their dead because they thought maybe there is a life afterward. And it just kind of evolved from that kernel and more and more civilizations came along and added to it and subtracted to it and said, no, you're wrong. No, you're wrong, and let's go to war over this. Like, hell is like this hammered steel drum that's been hammered out by millennia of people and cultures and it sounds pretty good. Yeah. I thought you were about to say, by John Bonham. Did he play a steel drum? No, but it sounded like the intro to it Led Zeppelin song there for a second. Gehenna is something else we should mention. This is another kind of quote unquote, Hell. But this was a real place, it was a literal place near Jerusalem where it sounds like it was kind of some sort of ancient what's the word I'm looking for? Not necessarily. Where do you take all the trash about it? Landfill. Yeah, sort of a landfill on fire. Okay. That's one interpretation, which is a great record title, I think. Yeah, why not? But this is where they would take stuff to burn trash, basically. And there might have also been child sacrifice happening there because I guess they figured, well, there's a fire already happening, so we won't have to start one. It depends on what source you're looking at. But it became a metaphorical. Hell, where a place that was on fire. You could be sent there. It was a place of judgment. You could be cast unto it. And that's in the New Testament, of course. So that's another sort of Hades like, I guess, usage that just makes it all the more confusing. Yes, but again, as we're getting further and further along and deeper and deeper into Christianity, which we haven't quite hit yet when Gehenna was first introduced, because I think that's Jewish, right? It's like a Jewish yeah, I think so. Even though it is in the New Testament, which is even more confusing. Right, but it kind of shows you how connected these civilizations and groups were over the ages that this still popped up. Well, just borrowing things from one another. Exactly. But then as these translations kind of go on over the centuries and there's newer and different versions of the Bible and the New Testament and the Old Testament, like all these things just become this generic hell which kind of opens it up to making how this big, huge, amorphous place where, oh, it's like this, but it's also like this and it's like that. And by naming everything just hell and losing that kind of ethnicity involved, the Christians were able to kind of wholesale adopt all of these ancient traditions and conceptions of hell into their own version of hell. And this is the Christian hell. Whereas if you kind of start poking behind it, you're like, oh, this Christian hell is made up of all these other conceptions of hell along the way. So as far as like and I love the Ed calls this section the topology of Hell but that's sort of a big part of it. We mentioned a little bit heaven as this place where God lives that's above you up in the sky because it's pretty. No one really knows exactly where all that comes from, but it all does make sense that you look to the skies when you pray, you look up when you're talking to God. And if that's the case, then it makes sense that, like you said, with the symmetry that there is another place we bury the dead underground. It makes sense that there would be a place that's deep and dark and fiery, I guess cave like, deep underground. That stuff is scary. So it makes sense that hell just sort of became this place that's, for lack of a better word, under our feet somewhere. Yeah. And what was interesting to me is that disconnected groups and cultures, not just geographically but through time as well, all had that same conception that hell was underground and heaven was somewhere above us or in the sky. Like the Mayans had a place called Shabalba, which is like, I guess translates to a place of fear. And that is when you die, you start out there and it's underground and it's hellish and scary and you have to work your way up basically into the sky to paradise. And she all was underground. It was connected to the grave. And that seems to be where this idea also not just that heaven was in the sky, so hell must be underground, but also that there has to be some connection underground because we've been burying people or at least putting our dead in deep, dark caves for at least 1300 years from what I've seen. But it may even go back before that neanderthals, I think, buried their dead even. So it's a really kind of ancient impulse to put your dead underground or in some underground subterranean place like a cave chamber. So of course, that would be connected to the afterlife in some way. But it is interesting that it's like, as far as I can tell, there's not a single culture that's like, yeah, that's where heaven is, underground. Yeah. And I find myself saying, well, it makes sense because you climb your way out of hell with good works toward heaven. It's sort of a chicken or the egg thing. It makes sense to me, but it only makes sense because that's the way it's always been framed. Yeah. There's a few thousand years of culture behind that way. That you were raised or I was raised, yes. So you mentioned Purgatory. This is a realm of the afterlife. Purgatory is like a waiting room where you were waiting to be judged. It's not, like, a great place. It's not like an awesome waiting room with the best magazines. It's more like the waiting room with boys life highlights. Right. Nothing but Highlights and Boys Life, and all of the puzzles are already filled out. Yeah. Or, man, the worst is any doctor's office where it's nothing but, like, medical and health magazines. Yeah, no one wants to read that stuff in there. No, they don't. You want to read a three year old Sports Illustrated. Right. And everybody else in the waiting room is not wearing a mask. No, thank you. It's the 2020 version of hell, dude. That's my new nightmare. I've been having those about three times a week. I don't like that where I'm being descended upon. They seem like zombies, but they're just people without masks. Right. It's weird. Potato, potato. But you know what's funny? Has this happened to you where you watch, like, movies or TV shows or something? It's like you're way too close to that person. Get back. Like, we have been changed, man, possibly forever. Oh, I think you'd be surprised how quickly we'll forget. I hope so. Oh, man, I hope so. I hope this all just becomes, like, some bad dream that just fades over time. My mom's getting vaccinated this Saturday. Good for her, Jack. She needs to do it live on Instagram or something. Yeah. She was like, Should I have any reservations? I was like, Nope. She's like, well, then I have to wait in line. You're like. Oh, those reservations. Yes. Make reservations. Yeah, make reservations. Reside. But yes, being stuck in Purgatory is not a good thing. So it's not hell, but it's not someplace where you want to be. That's why people use that term now. Like, I'm in Purgatory. Yeah. And there's something about Purgatory that I hadn't really realized. It's not interchangeable with limbo. When you go into limbo, you're there forever. Like, that's where you spend eternity, sometimes by no fault of your own. Like, this is where people who lived before Christ ever existed go after they die, because they can't possibly have been Christians. So they're not being punished, but they're not being rewarded by in heaven. It's kind of mean. Purgatory is a place where you, I guess, have to have been a Christian, but maybe a lapsed Christian, a Christian whose sin, something like that, to where you can work it off and go on to heaven. And that's kind of. The universalism or universal salvation idea. It's like that's all there is to hell is purgatory, where you can work it off over time and be saved. And then also really jibes too with this idea, Chuck, of the Buddhist hell. Basically the Buddhists have the concept of hell where I think called Noraka, which is also a Hindu concept. But there's this idea that you're there in each of these hells, you have to go through these hills, and your lifetime there is very specific. Like, your lifetime in this hell is 1.62 trillion years, and then the next hell is like a quadrillion years or something like that. But you eventually work your karma off on Earth. And if there's a real striking resemblance, this Buddhist Hell to some Christian and Jewish interpretations of Hell, or I should say some Christian interpretations of hell, where you can work off your bad deeds and then go on to Nirvana or Heaven, that's because they all borrowed from one another. That's basically the fact of the podcast is that there is a lot of incestuous interchange between the religions. Overlap. That's another way to put it. What I think is also interesting is the concept of temperature and hell. It's a very big deal. You always think of fire and heat and sweatiness, but that is not always the case. There are frozen hells. Aside from the Dakotas, the narrative you were talking about, I think that's a frozen hell, right? Yeah. There's eight hot hails and eight cold hails, and the eight cold hells are like in this one, your skin starts to blister. In this one, it's so cold that the blisters break, and then it just keeps going from there. Like all these horrible things happen to you from being exposed to the cold. Yeah, it's very interesting. I guess it's just sort of a variation of the same thing, like something really cold can burn you. Yeah, but I mean, it really kind of gives you this idea, Chuck. There's like so much thought has been given to all the little horrible details of hell, and I wonder what that satisfies can you just be like, okay, we all believe that there's a hell and it's a horrible place, as bad as you can imagine. Just go with that. What was the purpose of going into all this detail? I think the specificity, if hell sins on Earth are to be punished in the afterlife, to me it would make sense that there would be a great specificity put forward so people know exactly how bad it is in order to inform their deeds on Earth. It's not just, hey, it's a bad place. You don't want to go there. It's like it's a place where your skin will melt off and you'll have to push this fireball around for eternity or whatever. Yeah. And the person's like, fireball, that sounds terrible. I was okay with this thing, but maybe I should get a better person I guess I won't steal this car after all. But it's all like, fear stuff. And that existed right through my religion. It still exists today. Do you remember roughly how old you were when you were like, oh, I don't actually believe this anymore. I'm free. It started in sort of midish High School, but I was still sort of doing this stuff and hanging with certain crowds. Certain crowds? Do you mean like the opposite of certain crowds now going to like, young Life and FCA and stuff like that into early college? And the big transformation, I think I mentioned this before was when I took a religion class in college and I did learn that so much of this stuff is kind of all the same and borrowed from one another. And that is antithetical to grow up in the Christian Baptist Church where they're like, no, this is the only truth. Everyone else is wrong. Right? And then when I said, well, wait a minute, what about all these other religions that are really similar? They're like, wrong. Yeah, that was a big reckoning. And then it was just sort of gradual from there. Your Comparative Religion class was taught by Professor Lewis Cypher. Oh, man, he had a heck of a ponytail. I just remember that I thought that was really clever back when I saw that movie. Yeah. And looking back, it's pretty dumb, wouldn't it? Angelheart yeah, I mean, good enough movie very much of its time. But I remember thinking that Lewis Cypher thing was like, whoa, right? There's a restaurant, I think, in like, DC maybe. Lewis Cyphers. Yes, and I'm like, that's an unusual choice to base your restaurant franchise on Satan. You know, we love it. Should we take another break? Yeah, let's. All right. More judgment and punishment coming up right after this. What if you were a global energy company with operations in Scotland, technologists in India, and customers, all on different systems? You need to pull it together. So you call in IBM and Red Hat to create an open hybrid cloud platform. Now, data is available anywhere, securely, and your digital transformation is helping find new ways to unlock energy around the world. Let's create a hybrid cloud that can change in industry. IBM, let's create learn more@ibm.com. These days, you use your personal info to do just about everything, especially when you're online. And guess what? With all that info just floating around out there, it can make the Internet a practical gold mine for identity thieves. And stealing your identity, it turns out, can be dangerously easy, which is not good. But now it's easy to protect yourself with LifeLock by Norton. Yeah. LifeLock monitors your info and alerts you to potential identity threats. And if you are a victim of identity theft, a dedicated US based restoration specialist will work to fix it. Identity thefts have had it easy for far too long. Now, finally, it's your turn. Just remember, no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses, but everyone can save up to 25% off their first year by going to LifeLock comStuff that's lifelock.com stuff for 25% off your first year. LifeLock. Identity theft protection starts here. Incredible story of what seems to be a large military transport plane that's crashed in a remote region south of Ankara, Turkey. Witnesses authorities are on the hunt for a suspect after two men went to blows atop a fireworks bars, wrecked cards and destruction. Witnesses claim an unknown assailant left from the tram and evaded the scene after a high speed carjack. The identity of this man still unknown. What do you know about the Sierra program? Reckless mystery, man. You guys send in when you can officially send anyone else. Great, man. We got the urgent locate and destroy Sierra six stone asset of considerable value to the agency. That could be fine. The man's got some street cred. They have something they really want. What you've got? It's going to be my funeral. You're going to next. I'm about to put a hit so big on your boys that even his most loyal allies won't hesitate to drop a time. Nameless assassins with limited morality. What could possibly go wrong this summer? From the directors of Endgame and Captain America winter Soldier. You hurt me. I mean, my ego is a little bruised. Ryan Gosling, Chris Evans, Anna Dearness and Billy Bob Thornton want to make an omelet? You got to kill some people. The uncatchable meets the unstoppable. They can kill anybody. Maybe not anybody. The Gray Man. Only on Netflix. July 22. Rated PG 13. May be inappropriate for children under 13. Okay, Chuck, you promise judgment, you promise punishment. Let's lay it on us. Well, I mean, this is like you mentioned earlier in the Old Testament, like, God directly punish people. You could be smited or blinded or whatever. And the New Testament is when things got a little more organized. And it was literally like, here's the sections of hell. If you did this, you go here. If you did this on Earth, you go there. And a lot of this is informed by writers and not even, like, biblical scholars, like people like Plato. And a lot of these stories, again, are really similar. There's a story from Plato's Republic where a man named Er er goes into a coma, journeys through the underworld, and then wakes up and then tells everyone what happened down there. And this has a lot of reward and punishment included and a really organized system. And there are a lot of stories really similar to that throughout time that I don't know if they're based on Plato or the Republic or just like we've been talking about, sort of overlap and incestuous. I think you can make the case that they were based on Plato because Plato, he wasn't the first to come up with the idea of the immortal soul and there being like judgment and torment potentially afterward if not reward. But he really kind of boosted it. I guess he signal boosted the idea of an eternal soul, impossible damnation. And he directly influenced St. August 15. Definitely influenced some of these later guys like Drithelm and Tundale and their idea of help. But Augustine was influenced by Plato and Augustine had the other distinction along with, I think Augustine and St. Gregory were really kind of big time into that eternal damnation idea. But Augustine also was the one who basically said this is orthodoxy. This is the correct interpretation of the scripture. If you don't believe it, we are fine with inflicting violence upon you. That same tradition of what you were saying where this is the only truth that anybody who believes anything else is wrong, that finds its source. At the very least, it finds its early popularity from St. Augustine. So this idea of eternal damnation and if you don't believe in that, you're wrong. That kind of finds its place in the early Christian church in the fifth century. And so you do have these guys who came later, like Drip, Helm and Thunder who had nothing to do with scripture, but their experiences were basically they died and came back to life and said there's a hell and it's awful. Really kind of informed our idea of what hell is like. And it seems to be based a lot on these ideas by Augustine, who got his ideas from Plato, who got his ideas from God knows who. God does know who. That's true. If you really want to drill down, though, to where we get many, many of our ideas of what we think of as hell is Dante, of course, who we mentioned earlier. I did not even know Dante's last name until we researched this. And there's going to be some great Italian coming up. Everyone, come on. But Dante Alegiiri and his Divine Comedy and specifically Inferno. Dante's Inferno is really where we get a lot of what we think of as hell today comes from Inferno as far as and people even say without even knowing, like the 8th circle of hell and stuff like that, right? I've been guilty of saying that my whole life and not really understand what the heck that even meant. But what's interesting too is Dante wrote the Inferno. He wrote the Divine Comedy in the early 1003 hundreds. I guess it took him 15 years. So this is the he writes about these nine circles of hell, the nine concentric circles of hell. That is a really ancient concept even though he divided it and really enunciated all of the different distinctions in a really popular way. That's really old. Like think of that, noraca. There are eight cold hills there's like this idea of different stages. Like the Mayans even had this idea where you progress through these different stages up the tree of life from that dark underworld. That's a really ancient idea, but yeah, Dante was definitely the one who you would credit with this, coming up with it, even though it's totally wrong. Yeah. And it's also important to remember, when Dante wrote this stuff, it was the last 15 years of his life, and this was after he battled the Pope in the Catholic Church and was exiled from Florence. So a lot of this stuff is just reeks of sort of having a bone to pick and like, hey, the things that happen to me, they're going to be slotted in. It's almost like using his own experience to create the symbolism of, like, this is what happened to me. And that makes you the worst person if you did these things exactly like, I'm going to put you in Hell in my book. Yeah. And I'm sure some of those people were alive and like, hey, man, don't put me in Hell. You can't do that. And he's like, I just did. Here's an ice cube. Have fun. Dante one of his big things, and that, I think, made his work so famous, too, is he really got into contraposo. Do you want to take that? No, that was great. I didn't even pinch my fingers and thumb together. And contraposo is basically this poetic eye for an eye, where if you do this on Earth, if you sin in this way, your punishment is going to be some poetic justice in the afterlife. And that was the whole point of Hell as far as Dante was concerned. It was where God got justice for things that were done wrong here on Earth. Right. Apparently, it said as much over the gate of Hell. It said, Tour, which means, justice moved my high maker. Which is basically saying, like, this is what this place is for, is to get justice. There's also a very famous inscription, over the gates of Hell, abandon all hope, he who enter here. And that came from Dante's Inferno as well. Is that what that's from? That's good stuff. It really is. It was also used to great effect in Boondock, St, Dante and Virgil. Before they even go to Hell, they have to cross the river at you on and deal with Cheron, the boat man, which is I think this has been used a million times, too, in literature and pop culture. Like this boat person that has to transport someone across this river to a different place. Sometimes you have to pass a test, like Monty Python style, basically. And that's so weird, right? As I said that, I just looked up to our Aaron Cooper special Monty Python Photoshop poster where I'm King Arthur and you are one of the knights. And Strickland is in there, too. Yes. Isn't he? Like the page with the coconuts? Yeah. And who else is over there? Now I'm looking at a picture of me face punching George Lucas. You haven't been in this room in a while, have you? No, but I remember it pretty well. It's burned in your brain after twelve years. Yeah. So where was I? You were talking about the River Sticks archer honor, which might as well be the River Sticks. Right, right. But it is. It's like straight up taken from the Greeks, and yet this devout Christian Dante is writing about it like the Christian hell. And it really kind of goes to show you just how much literary license he took with this well, and how much he borrowed from the Greeks. Because you would think this is probably the Christian stance on hell. And it's not. Like, for instance, Dante sees thinks that it's a virtue if you have moderation in your life. Right? Like you don't want to be too spendy and greedy. You also don't want to be too miserly. But that's not a Christian thing at all. Like that's. Not in the Ten Commandments. It's not one of the seven deadly sins or anything like that. No, there's gluttony, but miserliness is not in there. Right? Yeah. So he's definitely just saying, this is what I, Dante think. But I guess it just hit a nerve because like we were saying at the outset, this is basically what people think of when they think of Hell these days, if not the fire and the red pitchfork and all that. All right, so first circle, limbo, not purgatory, like we mentioned. This is where you can like it's not terrible, but it is hell. And it's sort of unfair, like you said, if you're not like, you could just be born before Christ and you could be in Limbo. Right. Like Aristotle's there. Aristotle was great and virtuous and one of the greatest thinkers the world's ever produced, yet he's stuck in limbo because he existed before Christ, so couldn't possibly be saved. So what's next? Lust is next. And this is pretty interesting, too, in that some other people who had seen visions of hell, like the medieval knights we talked about earlier, they're talking about like, oh, yeah, they nail your sack to a board with rusty nails, or just really juvenile stuff. Dante goes a lot more poetic in that his idea of lust, their punishment for lust is lovers are blown about by the wind so that they can never quite get together, and they're always kept just out of each other's reach, which is a lot more poetic than the other one. Did you say nail your sack to a board? Yeah. Like your backpack? Yes. Okay. All right. Third circle is gluttony. Here you're stuck in the mud and you're being pummeled by hail and freezing rain. And this is where he got a little bit of his bone to pick out on Florence and what a terrible place that was. The fourth circle is where we get into the greed and the miserly. Basically. It's the circle of in moderation. Like, don't go too far in either direction. Yeah. And he really kind of plays into that symmetry as well, where on the one side are the people who are super gluttonous and like, they spend just tons of money, and then on the other side there are the people who are super stingy and hoard their money. They're really two sides of the same coin. I think Dante is correct in that sense. And so they're both in that same circle as Hell, but on opposite sides of the circle. The next circle number five, anger. Yeah. That's where those of us who get road rage will be eventually. That's where I'm going to be. Unfortunate. You're in the river sticks in that case. Yeah. Just lost it around being like, I'm so mad about everything. Circle number six, everyone feels like a Dave Letterman top ten. It does. All of a sudden. These are heretics, these are pagans, these are atheists. These are people who, while they were on Earth, were like, hey, I'm just going to have a good time while I'm here. I'm not worried about salvation. Yeah. And Epic curious in particular is there and I was like, Why epic curious? And apparently he very much and his followers did not believe in any kind of afterlife, which is why they make the most of your time here on Earth. I guess that's where I am. Yeah. It's basically another way to interpret that is that these were people who so discord by injecting alternative ideas into the believer's mind. Maybe I'm not there then. No, also, if you don't believe in an afterlife and you're enjoying your time here on Earth, you go there either way. Okay. You're screwed either way. Well, at least we'll be there together. I don't think we mentioned that Virgil the poet. Virgil is the one who's guiding Dante around through these things. And I guess it's kind of acting as, like his what is the name of the guy from New York Dolls and Scrooge? Buster Poindex. David Johansson. He's acting as Dante's Buster. Point. Okay. And so Virgil's escorting around. They get to the 7th Circle of Hell, which contains the city of Diss, which is Diss in the 6th. No, I think Diss is it's in the 6th, is it? Yeah, because then the 7th comes after. Yeah. And so a lot of people kind of chop up these circles of hell into the first through third, the second through the 6th and 7th to the 9th, and apparently Dante considered basically the first through the 6th, all kind of generally in the same category, which was they were sins of incontinence where people just couldn't resist the earthly temptations. They had a weakness of will. They're being tormented because they made these choices. But also this is really forgivable stuff seven through nine is where who he considers the genuine sinners, the evil people reside. Yeah. This is where arsonists and murderers he actually framed suicide as one of these in that 7th circle, the 8th circle. And it gets a little confusing because in their are smaller pockets within these circles. Right. And again, if you're a scholar of Dante, just I'm so sorry. Yeah. Hopefully they turned this off a while back. But the 8th circle is for ten kinds of fraud, and then the 9th circle is finally where Satan is. And this is for Satan as the lead trader. Basically not trader, but traitor. Right. This is a big one for me as a PISCES fan of Black Sabbath. Fan of Black Sabbath like loyalty. And it's very important. Broken trust is to me, like one of the worst things someone can do. Sure. I didn't realize that was Piscean in nature. Yeah, pretty Piscean. Okay. Very loyal, very friendships and relationships are sort of at the utmost importance to be betrayed as, like, just kind of the worst thing you can do. Got you. So you'd really enjoy this? Yeah, I mean, I guess that's my 8th circle, but it's interesting in that Satan, the ultimate traitor to God, is stuck there but could get out in theory if Satan just realized that, hey, I'm beneath God and I can recognize God as being above me, and I'm not God's equal. And it's a frozen it gets a little confusing, but it's a frozen lake. It's a little antithetical to what we think about as Satan, as being fiery, because what happens is the lake would thaw and free Satan if he wasn't flapping his big batwings to try and fly up to God to prove he's as equal. But instead of Satan's wings, I guess throwing forth, like, fire, which you would think it actually, I guess, is icy, and it just keeps that lake frozen. Right. But if you just give up, then he'd stop beating his wings and it would melt. Right? Yeah. And then he would be free, but then he just wouldn't be Satan anymore. You know what I mean? Sure. It'd be a broken version of Satan, and who wants that? That's right. Then we wouldn't have Sammy Davis Jr. TV Pilot yeah, right. Exactly. So, I mean, it's not like our idea of hell just ended at Dante, but I was like, yeah, that's it. Don't need to add to it. Like plenty of people have over time. One of the coolest I've seen, I cannot remember what it was, but I suspect it was an Aon Flux cartoon on Member Liquid TV, on MTV. I think somehow A on Flex ended up in Hell, and the weird conception of it was just so unsettling. Everything was just so off. It was really well done. I'll have to go see if I can find it. All I could find was that A on Flux, the movie sucked. That's all you can find when you search A on Flux in Hell right now. But I really want to find that again. If I do, I'll have to tweet it out. Yeah, I mean, you could do a whole second podcast episode on popular versions of hell in pop culture and movies and TV and literature paintings. Harona mass Bosch is a great example. I love those paintings. This is a couple of centuries after Inferno, but these are the ones that look like sort of indie folk album covers. They're great, very cool stuff. And like I said, there's scores of versions of Hell, from Clive Barker to Marvel Comics to Sammy Davis Jr. In the Good Place. They're all over the place. So it's definitely something that's, like, I don't know, it's just weirdly captured pop culture's imagination just as much as it did thousands of years ago with religion. You know, one of the other great conceptions of the afterlife, not necessarily hell, but hellish is found in this. I think I've mentioned it before. Joyce Carol short story called Night Side, where there's this seance and the spirits that are contacted are all freaked out because it's all just chaos. I think they keep saying, like, no one's in charge and everything is just out of order. And it's a really unsettling read. Like, Joyce Carlos is so good with horror, but that particular one is super disturbing. I highly recommend everybody reading it. Yeah. And if you want to see a fun take on the afterlife, watch the great Albert Brooks movie Defending Your Life. Oh, my God, that is such a great movie. One of the all time great sleeper films ever. Wonderful. So good. Yeah, that's a treat right there, Chuck. Good for you. The great Albert Brooks. Yeah. Well, since Chuck can't stop talking about Albert Brooks, I think that means it's time for listener mail. Fun fact, a lot of people know this. Albert Brooks. Born Albert Einstein. No. Yes. No. Yes. Brother of Super Dave Osborne. I guess I had known that, but only when Super Dave died recently, right? Yeah, he did die. Their birth name was Einstein. I think Super Dave Osborne was Super Dave Einstein. No, I think it was Bob Einstein. Is that his real name? I don't know. I think so. I don't know. But he's like from the Larry Bud Melman era of Letterman in the Hell. Yeah. Good stuff. Oh, yeah. So if you want to know more about Held, just start sending your A off and you'll find out about it soon enough. And like I said, since Chuck keeps talking about Albert Brooks, it's time for listener man. Yeah. I'm going to call this one of our great senior listeners. And this lady is from Australia. Hello, guys. I'm an 80 year old woman in aged care. My life was very mundane and quite boring. I finally bought a mobility scooter now and I could get out and ride the wonderful pathways and visit the shops. My son Robert thought I needed more interest, so he hooked my phone up to Josh and Chuck podcasts. Nice. Wow. All capitals. How I love riding around on my scooter and listening to your wonderful humor and mostly interesting things in quotes. I love it. So perhaps she even has the book. I have learned so much about everything. Love Elvis visiting Nixon for a Narc badge building, boulder Dam, Francis Perkins, etc. Just everything. Guys, keep up the good work. Cheers from Glenda on the Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia. Very nice. That was Glenda, right? I just love hearing from Glenda. She's great. Thank you, Glenda. Yeah, I think Glenda should write in every once in a while to say hi and talk about her favorite recent episode. I would love to think. Glenda, if you're listening, please do that. And was her son Richard. Robert. Robert. Robert. Thank you for turning your mom on to stuff you should know. Yeah, well, if you want to talk about how you turn somebody on the Stuff You Should Know, we would love to hear about that. That's great. You can write us in an email, wrap it up, spank it on the bottom and send it off to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is production of iHeartRadio. 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a610ec34-5462-11e8-b449-4b7d7488fc16 | How Tsunamis Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-tsunamis-work | Tsunamis are amazingly devastating natural disasters. They're miles tall and wide, travel as fast as a commercial airliner and can wipe out entire coastal towns. And if the last couple decades are any indication, they seem to be getting worse. | Tsunamis are amazingly devastating natural disasters. They're miles tall and wide, travel as fast as a commercial airliner and can wipe out entire coastal towns. And if the last couple decades are any indication, they seem to be getting worse. | Tue, 12 Jun 2018 13:14:03 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2018, tm_mon=6, tm_mday=12, tm_hour=13, tm_min=14, tm_sec=3, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=163, tm_isdst=0) | 45134645 | audio/mpeg | "Salt Lake City, Utah, and Phoenix, Arizona. We're coming to see you. Yes, we are. So come see. Yes, why don't you? Yeah, we put out the call to Salt Lake City and said, should we come there? And tickets are going, gangbusters. You guys are has really responded. Yeah. We thought you were just like, this is all just a joke. But no, it's turning out quite well. We're going to be there October 23 at the Grand Theater in Salt Lake City, and then the next night we'll be in Phoenix at the Van Buren. And we can't wait to see you guys. So please come out and see us. And if you want tickets, you can go to Sysklive.com for those. And Chuck and yes, to our friends down under, Melbourne. Boy, we are super psyched because you love us and you sold us out very quickly. So we have added a second show that I believe is actually an earlier show. Isn't that right? Yeah, it's a 530 show. I believe that Melbourne is the one that we added. And it's going to be cool. It's going to be like a sweet little matinee. Yeah. We call that happy hour in our country. That's right. So make sure you guys bring a slab each that's right. In Perth and Brisbane. Step it up. Yeah, that's right. So if you want to come see us, go to SYSK live. Whether you're in the US, whether you're in Australia, whether you're in New Zealand, it doesn't matter. You can go to the same site and hang out with us. And there you go. See you guys soon. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. And there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. And there's Jerry over there. Tristan's reign of terror is over. Yeah. Jerry hadn't killed. Yeah. He shouldn't have tried to take her place. I mean, he got what he deserved. Now there's just a grease spot on the carpet. Yeah, it was gross. You didn't have to leave them there for a week, jerry I thought that was a little weird also to bring in an acid bath into the studio. Right. Well, it made sense when she dissolved them in acid. Can I say something? Yes. The two that we're recording today yeah. I feel like are such kind of classic core stuff you should know e things. I know what you're going to say that I'm surprised we haven't done them yet. I searched probably three times. Me, too. Maybe five. Chuck for tsunamis. Yes. We've gone over this stuff before. For the life of me, figure out what it is. The closest I could come, possibly was Rogue waves. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Or how nuclear meltdowns work when we talked specifically about the Fukushima incident. Yeah. I think that had to be what it is, because I'm still a little paranoid that we've covered this before. Yeah, I am, too. So we're paranoid together, but we'll fail together if we re record an episode that we have done before that we couldn't find. But it's okay. We'll be all right, everybody. Right? These are both of our listeners. Yeah. Chuck and Buck. Wow. I know. Isn't that random that one of our two listeners is also named Chuck? Did you see that movie? No. You know that was a movie, right? No. Yeah, there was a movie called Chuck and Buck. Was it a porno? Not exactly. What was it about? It was Mike White, right? No. You'd recognize him? He's an actor and a writer. One of my favorite writers in Hollywood. Okay. And it was his first little indie film starring him and one of the filmmaking brothers, the Weiss Brothers. And you are not talking my language right now. Yeah. Anyway, it was him, and he played sort of a creepy guy that had unhealthy crush on this other guy, and it got made for some very uncomfortable circumstances. You're talking about I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry. I know the movie you're talking about. I never saw that one either. Hey, speaking of dude, I saw Norm McDonald's stand up. I saw McDonald's dog. Is it great? Yes. Probably the best stand up on Netflix right now. I've been meaning to watch it, and he's just a treasure. He's at his peak. It's great. I don't want to talk it up too much. Just go in there fresh. It's just good. Nor McDonald's stand up. You don't want to talk it up too much other than saying that it's the best thing, right? Yeah. I'm actually downplaying it right now. Okay. That's how good it is. Yeah, I got to check that out. All right, so back to it. We actually started off talking about tsunamis, and then we veered off. We're right back in it now. We're back in it. So we'll talk about some of the more famous tsunamis. Like. They've definitely been in the public consciousness over the last in this millennium so far. Just because there have been two colossally huge ones that caused so much destruction. Which is ironic. Because we're finally now getting to the point where we can warn people early about a tsunami. And yet two of the worst tsunamis in history. Whether it's through the human toll or the financial toll. Occurred within eight years of each other within the last 20 years. It's kind of surprising once you know a little more about tsunamis. Yeah. And I found our own article to be pretty good, actually. Well, it was written by three people, for goodness. How can that go wrong? Including Robert Lamb. Well, I always stand up for that guy's writing, for sure. So tsunami, we should just discover the word. First of all, it is Japanese word, obviously, and the TSU of tsunami means harbor, and the nami means waves. And that is what a tsunami is. It is a series of waves, generally, or a wave. Although we will clear up it's not exactly what you might think from Hollywood movies. No, it's really not. Yeah, but it's in the ocean, obviously, and these things can be as high as 100ft. And get this, they can travel up to and in fact, the 2004 tsunami traveled about 300 mph. Yes. And that is not at land, but through the ocean. 300 miles an hour. Yeah. And I've actually seen them that they're clocked at 600 mph. Man, can you imagine? No, I really can't. And I also have trouble with the math itself. Like, there's some weird formula for calculating how fast the tsunami is traveling, but it's the square root of the G force. You just lost me. I know. Times the depth of the ocean where the tsunami originated. Boy, I don't understand how that equals how fast the tsunami is traveling. So I'm just going to take it for their word that they can get up to 600 miles an hour? Yeah. That's crazy. All right, let's talk about tsunami. So tsunami is what most people think of as a giant wave. It's not necessarily what you're thinking of, like you said, Chuck, but it is a wave in some way, shape, or form, and it follows a lot of the it has a lot of the same traits or characteristics of a wave that you see on the surface of the ocean when you're sitting there on the beach and the waves are rolling in. Right. Technically, that's the same family that's the little brother of a tsunami. And so any kind of wave has a couple of components to it. It has the trough, which is the lowest point. It has the crest, which is the highest point, and Happiest point, generally. Yeah. Typically, that's where the surfers like to hang out. Yeah. You measure them from the height of the crest to the trough. That's the wave height. Right. And then the distance between the crest of one wave and the crest of another is one wavelength. So it's weird to think of because you think of the wave as just like the part that's kind of curving up out of the ocean that you see in graphic design or something like that. Right. Yes. The wave is actually much bigger than that. It goes from the top of the crust all the way forward and includes the back of the wave in front of it. Technically, that's one wave, and it includes the trough and the crest. So damn. That's a wave, whether it's a tidal wave or an ocean surface wave. Right. And then the frequency, which is what you would call the wave period, is it the time for two waves in a row to hit the same point. Yeah. So if you, like, had a bui and a wave went past and then another wave went past, the time between, that's the wave period. Right. Yeah. Or if you were a buoy. Sure. We should maybe do one on. I don't know if it's big enough for a full episode, but under toe would be kind of interesting to cover at some point. I'm surprised we haven't done that one either. Yeah. Last time I was in Charleston, day two and three were fine, but that first day was an incredible undertow and they even talked about it on the news. It was pretty dangerous. Yeah. So were you in the water? Oh, yeah, I was having fun. But it's one of those things where you're playing in the water and you look up, it's like, wow, Emily is a mile away now. Yeah. That's very dangerous. It was really carrying me down the beach. And the skin has been peeled off of your ankles and calves. Well, yeah. You're just fighting through it. Right. Until you eventually say, I'm 47 years old, what the heck am I doing? I'm going to go lay down. Right. With a gin and tonic. Right. So you got it figured out, Chuck. You know that I have my moments. So when we're talking about waves on an ocean back to waves, by the way. Yes. When you're talking about waves on an ocean, like the waves people normally think of, those are actually generated by wind. And we definitely talked about this somewhere before. Yeah, it's pretty interesting because I think most people think of gravitational pull and things like that, atmospheric pressure, and they contribute. But wind is kind of the most common way that a wave will form. Right. And it does so by basically on a molecular level. This article really goes into granular detail, but basically, air molecules push water molecules along and create these circular patterns, not circular on top of the surface, but if you're looking at like a cross section of the water, circular from the top into the water, usually down about a meter underwater. And it can get higher and higher as the wind gets stronger and stronger. Right. Yeah. And these little guys are known as capillary waves, which is the cutest wave, I guess. Sure. And then they just keep circling around vertically, like you said, until eventually it sort of dissipates the deeper it goes. Obviously it does. So depending on how strong the wind is, when that wave starts to whip up and frost up and get, like, the back to it, right. Yeah. It has more surface for the wind to press on, so the wind now can push it along even further, so it can pick up height, speed, velocity, all that jam, and it can get kind of big and they can get kind of fast. But the point is this. What you're seeing is not water being pushed along. What you're seeing is the transfer of kinetic energy from the wind into water. And what a wave is the movement of that energy through water. Yeah. It's an important distinction, I think it really is, because if you are at one point, and you see a wave, and you touch it, and you somehow scramble forward and catch it. When it's, like, 50 yards down or towards shore, you touch it again. You're actually touching two different bits of water. It's not the same water moving from point A to point B. It's the energy moving through. And it is it's a bit of a brainbuster if you start to overthink it, but it's also extraordinarily simple if you don't. Yes, for sure. Okay, so that's a wave. Okay. Yeah. That's a surface wave. Tsunamis are not like that. No. And if you want to understand how tsunami is formed and I think we talked about this in earthquakes as well, which is why it all rings so familiar. Not always, but that is generally what kicks off in the case of the most recent devastating ones, what kicks off tsunami will be an underwater earthquake. And those happen if you took out all the oceans water, you would really just need to think of the sea floor just like you would the rest of the hard stuff on the Earth. Yeah. Well put. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. No, I do. It's like if you're on a mountain and you come to a valley, it's the same thing that's just underwater. Yeah. So this is where we talk about plate tectonics. We have these huge plates, a series of them, that make up what's called the lithosphere, and that is the top layer of the Earth, and they make up everything that you see, including what's underwater, and they float on top of the stenosphere. Do you think I said that correctly? I think so. And I remember talking about this. Is that the lube? Yeah. The hot magma lube. Gross. It's not exactly lube, but it's almost like hot asphalt more. You know what I'm saying? Sure. It's a solid, but it's a very viscous solid. Right? Yeah. And so those plates flowed on top of the ascensary, and there are boundaries between the plates and where those boundaries connect, all sorts of things can happen. Oh, yeah, man. You can have one plate going upward while the other plate is going downward, so they're sliding alongside each other. You can have them pushing up into one another. And you have mountain ranges. Sure. Then you can have one where one slips under another one, and that creates ocean trenches when it's underwater. But you have to think about this. This isn't happening quickly. This happens at a rate of about an inch, about two and a half centimeters per year. That's how slowly these things are moving when they're interacting with one another. Yeah, but they're huge, and it's a lot of force, even though it's going slow. So what you were talking about is subduction. And sometimes in cases of subduction, you can have a lighter plate that just sort of snaps upward when they meet each other and they say, hi. Lighter plate snaps up and that's what causes the earthquake. And a tremendous amount of rock and force shoot directly upward from the floor of the ocean. Right. So now a tsunami has just been born because that's what it is. Right. With a normal wave, you've got wind blowing the water, or wind blowing through the water with a tsunami, this huge release of energy upward through the water column toward the surface. And this energy is like, yeah, we're going up. And right when it hits the surface, it really comes in contact with gravity that says, no, you're not. They go, yes, okay, we're going outward. Then it spreads outward. And this article gives a great analogy because it really drives home what we're dealing with here. If you take a pebble and you throw it into a pond, it makes that ripple, right? Yeah. It's the same exact thing. But rather than a rock going into the water, this is the force of an earthquake under the water going upward out. Right. And so that upward out movement, that is the tsunami waves that are being created, and it spreads outward in different ripples, just like if you throw a rock in the pond. Should we take a break? I think we should. I'm getting kind of worked up. No, I love it. It's the earth sciences, man. That's your jam. Yes, it's true. All right, so we're going to come back and we're going to talk about the speed of a tsunami and how that happens right. After this stuff, you should know. All right, so when we left off, I promised talk of tsunami speed, and this is where if you've learned it from movies, then you've probably learned the wrong thing, because the tsunami moves the fastest in deep water. So when a tsunami is going 300 miles an hour, and of course, you're monitoring things, which we'll talk about with all sorts of advanced equipment, but if you're just looking with your naked eye and a tsunami is going at 300 miles an hour through the ocean, you might see, like, a three foot high risk, if that. On the surface of the ocean. Where things really take action is when it gets close to shore, because it really slows down and it gets a lot taller because it's shallower water. Right. Like the coastal shelf that gets shallower and shallower pushes it upward. So it slows and grows taller. Right. Yeah. Depending on the topography of what's going on, wherever the tsunami is reaching shore, it's going to have a big difference. Of course. But the point is, it's compressing all this energy upward as it gets closer, and it slows down. And it's very difficult to grasp how enormous the tsunami waves are, especially considering that 3ft, like a meter maybe, of surface water will be disturbed to look like a wave, like a normal wave. Right. But that wave goes all the way down to the ocean floor, often miles. So you have basically what amounts to a three mile tall wave, that's a tsunami rather than a wave that you see on the surface. It's maybe 6ft tall and then it's disturbing water. 3ft under the water. This is a three mile tall wall of water moving out in a ripple formation in what's called a wave train. So successive waves, like those ripples spreading out from that pebble that are 3 miles tall and many miles across just coming at you, basically, yeah. And when I said slow down 30 to 40 miles an hour at land is still really fast. Obviously it's not 300, but right before the tsunami happens on land, it can be really creepy on shore, you're going to notice this beach water rising and falling in odd ways and sometimes it will suck all that water out. And I believe that movie, The Impossible, didn't it show that? I don't know. I've seen that in a movie and it's really creepy looking. And apparently it is actually very creepy looking in real life too. That's not like a movie thing. It can suck all that water out and it may not look like a movie wave coming in. It's more likely to look like just a huge flood coming your way. Right. Like a very fast moving tide, which is, I think, one reason people call them tidal waves, even though the tides have nothing to do with it. Yeah, but it doesn't look like that huge wave that you see in The Day After Tomorrow or something like that. Right. It's like a very fast moving, fast rising floodwater. And on this fast moving floodwater, you have huge raging rivers on top of the water too. It's just this huge chaotic mass of water that is moving inland very quickly and with an enormous amount of destructive force. Yeah. And then once it gets there, depending on where it lands, you might have areas that you think are sheltered because of high dunes or you're in an inlet or a bay. Sometimes they can act as like funnels. Like if the tsunami goes through there, you just don't know what kind of destructive power it's going to have until it interacts with the topography and the land features that it hits. No, but it does do some interesting stuff. So first of all, that one thing where the bay or the harbor or whatever gets the water sucked out of, it's called drawback. And they've studied that and actually concluded what you're seeing is the trough of the wave. That's the trough of the first tsunami wave. So if that's the part that reaches land first, the trough, that's going to have drawbacks. So it's not always going to have drawback, just only if the trough arrives first, the crest could arrive first, and then all you're seeing is the floodwater coming out of nowhere. But there's also supposedly the sound of a freight train or a jet coming at you. So it's like a horrific sound, too, that's coming with this wall of water. But one of the other things I think you're about to talk about was wrap around effect. Yeah. And that's along, like, a coastline, when I sort of sort of thought of it as like or maybe it's harbor residents. I'm not sure which is which, but when you have, like, a fish tank and you imagine just shaking it with all your force and it's just banging off of interior walls, is that wrapped around? No, that's harbor resonation. Okay. So you know when you're doing that right, like, it just picks up more and more force with each movement, each oscillation from one side to the other. Right. And those poor fish I know, they're like, please stop. Empty fish tank, everyone. Surely this is illegal, but imagine that happening in the harbor. That's what happens in the harbor. So it just gets even more destructive. Yeah, but the wraparound effect, this article just totally, completely gets it wrong. Yeah, I didn't quite get it. It's not the wraparound effect at all. So the wraparound effect is if you have a tsunami wave, remember, these are many miles across, and they're coming inland. If they encounter, say, like, a barrier island. It's a little island, right? You would think that the barrier island would slow it down, maybe take it a little easier on the land. The shoreline behind the barrier island, it doesn't do that at all. The barrier island actually amplifies the tsunami wave, and they couldn't figure out how, but they knew that it could amplify it by, like, 70%. Wow. But it doesn't make any sense. So they started studying it, and I'm not sure who. So I'm just going to call them. They for now, but they figured out what happens is the tsunami wave is split into two by this island, and for a very brief time, when they come back together, they are basically doubled in force. It's like two waves together now with this force, and it amplifies it onto the land behind it and makes it way worse. That kind of makes sense if I picture it in my head. Well, they actually do have cool pictures of it, too, I think, on a NOAA site. So look up, like, wraparound effects, tsunamis, and it shows, like, just part 1234, I think, six pictures, and it really drives it home. But it definitely does make sense. But it also intuitively doesn't at all. Yeah. And obviously they've been in the news in the last ten or 15 years, like you said, and the devastation that can happen from a tsunami is just immense because people live along coastlines, and we'll get to early warning later, but no matter what kind of early warning you have, you may can get some people out of there, but it's going to wreck everything in its path. Right. And that happened very famously recently, a couple of times in December 26, 2004, in the Indian Ocean. There was a massive 9.1 magnitude earthquake that apparently it shook buildings 1200 miles away in Thailand. Yeah, that's a big one. And they always I guess the Big Mac version of earthquakes is Hiroshima bombs. Right. The magnitude of 230 Hiroshima atomic bombs. Yeah. No small earthquake. No, not at all. I think the next most recent one was in the next biggest one was the 19.60, and it was like a 9.4 to 9.6. And this is a 9.1. So it was no slouch as far as earthquakes go. But the thing about this, the 2004 earthquake that hits Sumatra, it was one of the deadliest natural disasters in human history. Yeah, it killed about 230,000 people. No, I can't like, if you go through the list of deadly tsunamis over history yeah, I mean, the next largest I saw was one in Japan in, I think, the 19th century that killed 26,000 people. So a 10th of the 2004 tsunami and the reason why it was so deadly was it hit eleven different countries that were fully engorged with tourists on the holiday season. So there were a lot of people there, including a lot of people who had never really been introduced to tsunami preparedness or knew what was going on. Sure. If there was drawback, and I think there may have been. Actually, I think I saw footage of the drawback for that one. So you're right. People were kind of like going out into the harbor like, what's this? And when that happens, when the drawback happens and you're seeing the trough of that first tsunami wave, you have seconds, maybe minutes, to get away, not go closer to it. Yeah. But it wouldn't have made a difference in that case. Probably not. And it was enormous and huge. It killed a lot of people very quickly, because even if you do have the time to do it, you have to get no less than a mile inland or no less than 100ft above sea level. And you have a very short time to do that. So my friend Dave Barnhartt, who listens to the show hey, Dave. Hey, Dave. He is a documentary filmmaker for Nonprofits, and he went down there and did a series of documentary updates over the years. I can't remember how many people, but he followed specifically the lives and aftermath of several different individuals and families and went down there himself and shot this stuff, I believe, in Indonesia. And I don't know if he's still following up, but he did it for many years and I saw a lot of this stuff, and he won some awards for it. It's just unbelievable, the stories of devastation and then perseverance for some of these people that started over with nothing in the worst, most unsanitary, devastating conditions you can imagine living in. Yeah, I was going to say I can imagine. I can't imagine. Yeah. I mean, it's just heartbreaking to see this stuff like quarter of a million people. It's hard to even fathom. There's this one story Yummy got obsessed with at the time about the kid named Baby 81. He was like the 81st baby to be brought and do, I think, a hospital in Sri Lanka or something afterward. And there was this huge media publicity circus around whose kid it was. And supposedly they were reporting that there was, like nine different families claiming him. And there was a huge battle over it, really. It was just this one poor family who knew that it was their son and who went to go make a claim. But they actually got arrested for trying to take the baby out of the hospital and had to wait, like, a month before they got him back through, like, a DNA test. But it's just like, first of all, tsunami. Secondly, their baby gets swept away out of the mom's arms in the tsunami, and then when they finally find out the baby is alive, they go to take him back, and they can't. And just like, the idea that they have to prove that it's their son, it just kept getting worse and worse and worse. And apparently they had to move because they were known as the tsunami family. Oh, man. Here's the last little bit for you. They went and appeared on Good Morning America in the United States and told their story. When they got back, they were denied disaster aid because everyone assumed that they had been paid for their appearance and that they didn't need the money even though they hadn't been paid for it. Wow. Isn't that awful? Yeah. One family that happened to all of that. The story of the movie The Impossible is a true story and an amazing story and just a tough movie to watch. Yeah. So I was thinking back, like, I saw that within the last year or so, I think, and I was thinking back to some of those scenes, and now that I'm thinking about, I'm like, how did they even shoot that stuff? Like, how it doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Did they flood a town somewhere and start filming there? Because that's what it looks like for sure. It was pretty remarkable what they did, like, cinematically, for sure. But you're absolutely right. It's very tough to watch. For sure. So that was 2004. Yeah. And then just seven or eight years ago in 2011, in March, and we definitely talked about this in the nuclear meltdown, but the tsunami that hit Japan, this one had a horrific effect in and of itself, just from the tsunami. I don't know what the final death toll, but it was well over four or $5,000, I think. I think the official death toll is now at 20,000 dead. Oh, wow. Because I knew for a while there were just people missing. Right. Man. I think they finally combined them all and just said, 20,000 is the official death toll. The damage is upwards of $309,000,000,000. It's the most expensive natural disaster in history. Well, yeah. And this one was noted not only for its devastation, for human life and money, but obviously the generator of the how do you pronounce it? Fukushima Daiichi Daiichi Nuclear Facility. That was where it made. I don't know about the most news, but that's what really set this one apart. You had a tsunami disable a nuclear reactor for a brief time, which is bad news. Yeah. It shut down like it should because I guess they had seismic detectors that tripped an automatic safeguard system. Sure. But the power got knocked out, so there wasn't any cooling system. And it's not like it just goes from incredibly hot nuclear reaction to room temperature immediately. You need to keep cooling it down. And they didn't. And apparently from that meltdown and I don't remember talking about this in the episode. This is insane. But the meltdown created radiation that tore apart the water vapor. That's amazing. And so the hydrogen separated, and so the place filled with hydrogen gas, and it started exploding, and that's what blew a hole in the reactor and created the leak. I don't remember that. That's nuts. I wonder if that was found out afterward and not available to us at the time. I bet you're right. That sounds like something that they I don't even know if at the time we recorded it, they knew how the breach occurred. Yeah, because we recorded within, like, a week or so of it happening. I think so. That place is still way hot. They send in robots. Now they're trying to figure out what robot to use, and they haven't hit on it quite yet because the place melts robots that go in to try to clean up the mess. All right, well, we're going to take another break, talk a little bit about how we're getting better at predicting earthquakes and then also what it means for marine life right after this. Okay, Charles, we're back. I also want to say real quick before we do that, there are at least two articles, and I believe they're written by the same guy who went and covered the 2011 tsunami in the aftermath. One is called Ghosts of the Tsunami. I think, in the London Review of Books. It is amazing. It's about how these people in Japan live among ghosts. As far as they're concerned, they see, like, ghosts everywhere of the people who died in the tsunami. One of the better articles I've ever read in my life. The other one is the school beneath the wave. And that was in the Guardian. And it tells the tale of this one specific school that this guy who covered the tsunami knew all these different stories and all these tales that came out of it. And this one, I believe he says that he put off writing about until last because it's so terrible because a whole school of children just got swept away by the tsunami because the grown ups wouldn't listen to the kids, who they trained to respond correctly to a tsunami, and they just wouldn't listen to them. And it just swept away, basically, his whole villages, group of children. Would they have gotten out? Yeah. If they listened to the kids, probably most of, if not all, would have survived. Oh, man. Yeah. It's a tough one to read, for sure, but both of them are definitely worth it. So when it comes to predicting these, obviously, and the same with earthquakes and tornadoes and any natural disaster, what they're trying to do is just get better and better about getting as much time beforehand as possible, because then this article very simply points out, like, you cannot stop it. There's nothing you can do. You can't build anything that can thwart or divert a tsunami. So the only chance that people have a survival is getting as early warning as possible. To get as many people out of there as possible will still destroy the towns and villages and cities, but at least you could save some human lives. And unfortunately, it's getting much better, but most of the studying takes place afterward, so you can try and get better about before. Yeah. And one way that you study tsunamis is through things like eyewitness reports. You go look to see how high the debris made it up to yeah. And how far it went. Yeah. How wide it was. Some of the debris will end up, like, on the other side of the world sometimes if the tsunami is big enough. Because remember, you hear about the tsunami where it hit the closest place, the place that devastated the most, whether it was Sumatra in 2004 or Japan in 2011, but say the Japan one, it carried stuff all the way over to California. It goes in both directions. It's just California was way further away, so it didn't experience the destruction like Japan did, which was right up on the place where it happened. Yeah. So equipment wise, they use buoys out in the ocean. They use tide gauges. They have tied stations that measure just the smallest little changes in sea level. They do have seismograph stations that record underwater earthquake activity and anything apparently, that's 7.5 or higher that is under the ocean, earthquake wise, is when an official tsunami watch is issued. Right. So when the tsunami watches issued, then you won't hear about it quite yet. That means that they start checking out their gauge stations. And if the gauge station reports a tsunami right? Yeah. I guess it's a change in tide, is what the gauge station measures. Right. Yeah. So if there's a sudden change in tide that doesn't coincide with the title schedules, they'll say, yeah, it's a tsunami, send out the alarm. And then they alert everything, like the public through text messages or TV or Paul Revere. However they do it, do you know how early they can get this stuff now? I saw minutes for the 2011 one, which in some cases, that's all you need. If you're in a tall building, you just keep going up. Yeah, that's true. That can help. Or if you are close enough, you're getting your car and start driving as far inland as you can. Minutes can help. And they actually think that the death toll would have been way higher in Japan had they not learned as much from the 2004 tsunami and set up emergency systems like they had, that the death toll would have been much worse. It's just the reason why it got as high as 20,000 is because it was such a big tsunami. Like, it topped, like, almost 130ft. It was just enormous. That's what accounted for the destructive force. Yeah. And the whole time I was researching this stuff, I didn't see anything in our article that talked about sea life, because I was thinking what's it like to be a fish when 300 miles an hour tsunami rolls through? And it can be devastating. Like, the base of the wave can completely change and rewrite the topography of the sea floor. Really bad erosion will happen. And what they call the benthic ecosystem, which is the very sea bottom ecosystem, with all the crustaceans and sea snails and worms and stuff, it can just wreck it. Coral reefs can be destroyed. And in fact, in 2004, it completely wrecked the coral reefs around the Indian Ocean coastlines. Sea grass beds, mangrove forests, all these wetlands can be super vulnerable. And then species invasion, like you were saying, stuff can move thousands and thousands of miles. That happens with sea life, too. Oh, wow. So you can get an algae, and in fact, they have recorded, like, algae and other organisms in, like, Oregon that came from Japan that have never been there before. So sometimes that can be bad, sometimes it works out, and they just say, all right, we'll set up camp here. But they can displace native species, so that's all a consideration and could not find anything specifically about literally in the water, like, what happens to a whale that's swimming along and then 300 miles an hour comes through? Like, does it just go kaboom and the whale explodes, kind of thing? Because I could kind of see that happening. I don't know. Or is it just like being in a washing machine for a minute and then the whales like, what the heck was that all about? What a rush. Who knows? Hopefully, Chuck, we have some very sharp listeners who I'll bet, some of which are marine biologists. Sure. So we want to hear from you guys what happens to a whale that gets hit by a tsunami? And that's us asking from our eight year old hearts, we're going to go play with their tonka trucks now while we wait for the answer. Yes. And of course, anything within the I'm not sure how much distance, but anything close to the inland part will just be washed ashore. So, I mean, millions and millions of bits of sea life are now deposited on dry land. Yeah. And we should say so for the unfortunate ones. If you're a fish and you're getting smacked around with this debris now, like you're getting run into a house that will kill you, there's all sorts of obstacles that aren't out in the water that are now in your way because you're being pushed inland in this huge surge of floodwater. One of the other destructive forces of tsunamis is that they receive, and when they receive, they take all that stuff back out with them, too. So maybe your house survived the initial inundation, but it's not necessarily going to survive all that debris being pulled on it as it's all pulled back outward into the ocean, too. They just go from bad to worse from moment to moment, basically. Well, and I think it slipped by. I don't think we mentioned, too, that it's not just that first wave. You can get secondary flood pushes up to, like, an hour and a half later. Yes. Thank you. So that whole wave train, right? You get the initial wave, and you get another one or the initial flood water, and then another one. Another one. Yes. I saw actually up to, like, a couple of hours later, and people have died going back thinking after that's over. Right? Exactly. They go back, and then it's like, no, here comes around, too. Jeez. Yeah. I can't believe we haven't done this one before. We definitely haven't. I looked a bunch. Yeah, I did, too. And I also tried every word combination I could think of, and nothing came up. I even tried spelling it. S-O-O-N-A-M-I that sounds like us, man. I got one more. Are you ready? Yeah. The tallest tsunami wave ever recorded oh, boy. Was 1958 in LaToya Bay, Alaska. It reached 520 meters or 1710ft above sea level. Wow. Can you imagine? Yeah. I mean, that's like the tallest skyscrapers. It's up there for sure just coming at you. Well, if you want to know more about tsunamis, you can search that word. Don't spell it. S-O-O-N-A-M-I It's spelled T-S-U-N-A-M-I think, in the search bar@housetofworkscom. And since I spelled some stuff, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this story from a nice lady from a Strawberry Farmer. How about that? Those are great story. Hey, guys. Stumbled upon your podcast and have become obsessed. My husband and I own a strawberry farm. Doesn't that sound lovely? It really does. What a nice way to live, you know, man and I recently started listening while I'm working outside. The other day, I was walking the fields and listening to an older one on cremation as a story. My mom's dad passed away in the early 90s when I was very young. In 2012, my grandma lost the family home in Long Island, New York, to Hurricane Sandy. My grandma had an additional home in Florida and moved there the following summer. My mom and dad drove out to New York to pack up what was left of the house before it was going to be demolished. My parents found this little wooden box with no labels. My dad tried to open it and could not, and unknown to my mom at the time, he put it in the van, drove it back home to Wisconsin. When my mom found it, she asked my grandma what it was, and she replied, oh, yeah, that's your father. I'm just trying to do my best Long Island accent. You did a great one. Needless to say, they were glad that they were unsuccessful in opening the box. My mom rightfully labeled the box. And now we all get to see Grandpa every time we visit their home. Thanks for entertaining me while I walked up and down rows of strawberries, checking on plants and weeds, eight acres at a time by hand mow the lawn or hand prune ten acres of strawberry plants. She's just rubbing it in now. PS. We ever do a show in Milwaukee? Well, Danielle Clark, we have done a show in Milwaukee, and it was great. So I'm sure we'll come back at some point. Yeah. Either there Madison yeah. Or maybe both, because I think we found out, like, they don't actually drive down the road to one another. It's weird. It is weird. Well, if you have a great story about something we talked about, like Danielle. Thanks. By the way, Danielle, if you want to let us know about it, you can tweet to us. We're all over Twitter. You can check us out on Facebook. We're on that, too. You can send us an email to stuff podcast@howstephos.com. And as always, join us at our home on the Webbuffyshow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit HowStuffWorks.com. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon Music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never, ever be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today." | |
Does the body replace itself? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/does-the-body-replace-itself | Does the human body really replace itself every few years? The answer is yes, but different parts of the body do so at different rates. Learn all about which parts of your body are the speediest, and which take the longest to regenerate. | Does the human body really replace itself every few years? The answer is yes, but different parts of the body do so at different rates. Learn all about which parts of your body are the speediest, and which take the longest to regenerate. | Tue, 31 Mar 2015 13:18:46 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2015, tm_mon=3, tm_mday=31, tm_hour=13, tm_min=18, tm_sec=46, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=90, tm_isdst=0) | 30941181 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clarke with Charles W, Chuck Bryant and guest producer Noel Noel is in the house. See it in the new studio. Yeah. Honestly. Comfy cozy. I like it. I wish there was a chair version of a waterbed. I know. This is a napish little place. Yeah. Especially today. I'm dragging all apologies. Yes, same here. So if we're talking kind of slow or low or we just stop talking for a little while. We're just tired. Yeah. Bumped into you at the Hawks game last night. I know. Hey. How funny is that? The bump in. We were both at the Hawks game, and the Hawks one didn't even know we were going. Look over in line. There's Josh and Yummy. Yes. That's great. There's Chuck and Eddie. Yes. An arena of 18,000 bumping into someone. Is that it? That's all it holds? I think it's something like that. A lot of people it's a good arena. Yeah. But you have box seats because you're special. They were free. Mine were free, too. In the nosebleeds. I like just about every seat in that place. Yeah, it's not too bad. I was laughing about the nosebleeds going in, but then I got up there, I was like, this is great. You can see everything. Did your nose actually bleed? Just twice? Yeah, once out of a cheer excitement and then once from the altitude. And that was more of a spray, right? Yeah. Just covering everyone like, GoHawk, boy, what a weird intro. It's a little weird, but, I mean, it kind of jibes a little bit because we're talking. Yeah. You were mentioning blood. Sure. It was shedding cells and blood. You were like, Blood is made up of cells, and we shed tons of cells. But before we get to that, there's the fact of the podcast. You shed cells. I want to mention this one thing I read. Yeah. I think the title of the article is The Self is Moral. It's about where we get our identity of self from, like, where it's rooted is written by a person named Nina Strohmeyer. I believe it's on a online magazine. Just type in The Self is Moral aon it'll come up. That'll get you there. And toward the beginning, the author says there's this very famous philosophical exercise which philosophers love to do. Like mental exercises? Yeah. That's all they have. So imagine you have, like, a ship, right? Okay. Like a boat. A nice Yankee Clipper. Okay. Okay. And this Yankee Clipper is slowly, over time, kind of salvaged for parts. But rather than just being stripped, like, every time a part is taken out, it's replaced. And then over the course of, like, 5100 years, is each plank, as each bolt, as each mast head, even the thing, the carved lady in front eventually just gets replaced with something else. Yeah. A new carved lady that speaks of the time. Right. Is it still, though, after every single part has been replaced, the same ship that it was before? Yeah, I see what you mean. I don't think that can be possible. Why not? Especially if it has the same name and it's the same ship in the same place as before. It was just slowly, over time, moved out. True. Where does the self lie? Yeah, that's a good point, man. Like redoing a house. Same thing. Yeah, like all the floors and the walls and the windows. When does it cease to become that same house that was built in 1930? Exactly. Isn't that cool? Yeah, it is really cool. And the reason that it applies to this episode is because over the course of your lifetime, a significant portion, pretty much all of the cells in your body are going to be replaced. So that the person, even after you reach your adult self physically, by the time you die, assuming you're going to die much later, you are essentially a different person, at least on the cellular level. Yeah. 37 trillion cells. That's how many we have. Yeah, that's what they estimate. And I did a little looking into lifespan. It sounds like an estimate. 37 trillion. What do you want, like, give or take? Yeah, I did a little research into lifespan, just because this all sort of comes back to your death, basically. That's all death is, your cells dying little by little. Well, yeah. I mean, if you think about it, Chuck, one of the things that, like, why do we die? We'll get to all that. Okay. But it's intriguing. Questions started popping up. So apparently we gain about three months every three months of life, humanity. Every year that we progress, like, the average lifespan expands by three months. Yeah. Like, if you were born in 2012, the average lifespan is now, and this is the United States is 78.8. If you were born in 19 one, it was about 47 and 50 years for men and women, respectively. But if you look at the ratio, it's still about three months, despite all our technologies. Three months a year? Every year. Every year. Just slowly creeping along. Yeah, because I think the article was like, when we're going to live to be 100 by average? And they say by the year 2100, if things hold, then the average human or American will be about 100 years old. If things are steadily progressing. I had heard that our generation would be either the last or the first, the last two to not hit triple digits, or the first two on average. Yeah. And these are all guesses, so who knows? Plus, if you believe in things, science speeding up. What is that? Moore's Law? Yeah. Is that it? Yeah. Applied to computers, though, in that case. Right, right. But you can extend it to other stuff. Yeah. Then you might think, but they say it's not increasing like that. No, at least not so far. Moore's Law is exponential growth. Just adding three months every year is nonexponential. Geometric, I think we're still at nonexponential growth. Definitely. Yeah. We're just adding three months. Yeah. It's not bad, though. That's pretty good. Average every four years. That's an extra year. Yeah. Well, and it's interesting to think about people that were born. A lot of our colleagues, like, eight years behind us are going to live an average of two years longer. Yeah. That seems unfair sad. Yeah, I know. What did they do to observe that? We're thinking about our own deaths today. Yeah. And Chuck, that there's this rumor theory legend, maybe that your body regenerates itself. 95% of your body regenerates itself every year. Yeah. That's not true. No, it's not true. But it was a very long standing rumor, and it was actually based on science, not just the idea that our cells regenerate. So Back in the Envelope estimate is that we regenerate 95%, 98% of ourselves every year. It was early experimentation by injecting radioactive isotopes into human beings and then following their course and then making estimates based on that led to this idea. It's called pulse labeling. Yeah. It's like tagging an animal in the wild, basically. Right. But you're just tagging a cell for specific types of cells. Yeah. They don't do that to humans anymore. No, they do animals anything. It's a very dumb thing to do. Sure. Injecting radiation. Exactly. Yes. Unless, of course, it's radiation treatment. That's true. Which is still a really weird thing if you think about it. Yeah. I have a feeling it's going to be like one of those things we look back on as like a primitive treatment. Yeah, I hope so. But there was this long standing science for decades, or this idea scientific idea that we regenerated ourselves by 95%, 98%. Finally. And I think 2005, there was a researcher named Dr. Jonas freezen. He's Swedish. It's awesome. He said, this whole urban legend is really bringing me down. I want to figure out a way to really track how often the human body regenerates itself. Yeah. The biggest question has been the brain, specifically the cerebral cortex, and the heart and the heart muscles. They want to know all this stuff. But those are the two biggest mysteries, I think. Right. There's still the mysteries. But if you went back to prior to 2005 and Dr. Friezen's research, it was all a mystery. Yeah. He figured out he basically put a very accurate timestamp on how often human tissue and human cells regenerate themselves. Right. So the way he did this is very clever. For a long time, botanists knew that the trees around the world contained a spike of carbon 14 radiation. Yes. Thanks to humans and nuclear bombs. Exactly. From 1954 to 1963, tree rings for tree growth around the world show a big spike in carbon 14. Carbon 14 is naturally occurring, too. So, like just cosmic rays from the sun bombard Earth's atmosphere and create radioactive isotopes by knocking electrons from particles in Earth's atmosphere. Right. Those radioactive particles become carbon 14, which is radioactive and in the atmosphere. Carbon 14 binds to oxygen and creates carbon dioxide, which comes to Earth. Every living thing breathes this stuff in, whether it's a plant, whether it's a human. We just have C 14 in our bodies. And we also eat plants exactly. That contain the C 14 besides breathing it in, and we also eat the animals that eat the plants that in just C 14. Right. We got carbon 14 in our bodies. That's right. But because of the spike in carbon 14 that was introduced to the atmosphere from nuclear testing, there is a spike in humans as well. So you can roughly age like a human compared to another human if they were born in, say, 1959, and one who was born in 1970, after there was that spike of carbon 14 had gone away. Right. That's pretty cool. But what Dr. Friezen did is even cooler. He basically went back to those tree trunks, those tree rings that show a spike in carbon 14 and created a calendar of carbon 14 decay and basically said, okay, on this date, this is how much carbon 14 was on Earth. And if I take this cell and compare it, knowing that carbon 14 decays at a constant rate, I can tell you exactly how old the cell is. Exactly. And he used it to date cells and tissues and all sorts of cool stuff. Yeah. He went looking for a marker, and he found one due to our atomic testing program, which is pretty weird, just released all that junk in the atmosphere, and now, all these years later, it has a nice use. Yeah, it does. So we now know when we're going to die, right? Sort of. And the reason he was able to use this as a marker checkers is that when you take a breath of life, your first breath of life that's right. And you get some of that C 14 into your DNA, and a steady amount stays in there. Like you don't keep ingesting C 14, as far as I understand. As far as your DNA goes. Okay. Once it's in your DNA, as your cells divide, that original amount becomes divided evenly. Right. So the less C 14 that's in tissue, the older that cell line is, the younger the actual cells are, right. Is that right? I think so. Which would mean the new cell, the marker, would be a fresh batch of the C 14. No, it has less C 14. Oh, really? Yeah. Let's say you have oh, because the cell divided. Yes, exactly. Yeah. You have 10 grams of C 14, which you don't imagine, but that would be like, let's say your one cell that's never divided has ten. When it divides into two, each of those two cells is going to have five grand. Right. And then two and a half, and then 1.75, and so on and so on. So since you know that C 14 is generated at a custom rate, you know that it decays at a half life of 5730 years. You can look at the amount of C 14 and then also the decay of it as well. You can date things that are no longer living, too, to see when they ingested that C 14 was. Yeah. He's a little like a bingo card from the calendar that he made with the trees, and he holds it up in the light, and that's how he determines it. It's not true. But what he did determine, though, was which is really cool, and this is sort of what we've been building towards, is that most of your cells are about seven to ten years old in the body, and there are variances. And of course, we're going to talk about all that. And right after this break, we are going to give you a little primer on cells so you know what all this means. All right? All right, Josh. We were promised to sell primer, and we like to deliver on those promises, stuff you should know. So I guess we started off by saying there are 37 trillion cells about in the human body. Yeah. Give or take. Give or take. And water makes up about two thirds of the weight of those cells. Oh, yeah, that's right. They're tiny. You need a microscope to see them, and it's like it's the tiniest thing that can still reproduce. Yeah. And even though we have many different kinds of cells, I think 200 types, and within those cells, there are differences, but there are a lot of similarities with all cells in their structure. Namely, they have a cell membrane. They have a nucleus. They have a nucleus. Some have more than one. And these membranes are what allows nutrients to pass in and out, waste to pass out water through. Osmosis travels in reverse. Osmosis travels out. Yeah. And what else? We got your mitochondria as well. That's where this is the really important thing, which is basically what keeps your cells alive. That's the power center, right? Yeah. And your cells need food to live, just like your body does. But you can't pass that hamburger straight into your cell. It needs to be broken down so your cell can use it exactly. Into adenosine triphosphate. ATP is like the universal cell fuel, right? Yeah. So there's a lot of stuff that the body does make. I think you need, like, 23 you need 23 amino acids, and, like, nine of them your body doesn't really manufacture. So those are the nine nonessential amino acids. Right, right. And you use amino acids to build proteins and use proteins for everything from making muscles to making red blood cells to your mounting an immune response. Proteins are very vital in some of them. You have to build by eating stuff from your environment, right? Yeah. So you go out and you find yourself a nice pig and you cut off its back leg. You say, Sorry, pig, here's a pig leg for you. But I need this leg, I'm going to eat this leg. And what I'm really eating is the muscle, and what I'm really eating is the glutamine. And then my body is going to take this glutamine. It can make it itself, but it doesn't hurt to have an extra little bit of glutamine. Yeah. Then it hurt to have that pig leg in your back. Exactly. Right. So I'm chomping on the pig legitarian, listeners, by the way. Right. Just use your imagination for a second. Sure. And yes, I'm sorry too. So you're eating the pig lake and you're gaining this glutamine as a result, and your body is metabolizing the glutamine and then reusing it. Right? Yeah. And it can be glutamine. It can be anything. If we're ingesting a protein, if we're ingesting amino acids, if we're eating any kind of food, sugars, whatever, our bodies break it down into its constituent parts and then a lot of those constituent parts become part of our bodies. Yeah. So if you think about it in this sense, when we eat, when we breathe, we're taking in stuff we need from the environment, and that stuff that we take in from the environment becomes a part of us, literally, physically, on the molecular level, it becomes a part of us, for better or worse, depending on what it is, of course. Yeah. That's a great I think that's ultimately, one of the side lessons of this whole thing is we should take care of our environment, because that environment becomes us and we either suffer or thrive as a result of it. You ever heard the expression you are what you eat? Exactly. You literally are what you eat, quite literally. And then also, Chuck, it goes the other way as well. When we excrete waste, when we exhale CO2, that's taken up by other things in the environment, it's deposited into the environment and it becomes part of the environment itself. So not only do we regenerate, our cells regenerate tissue, on average, seven to ten years, become almost wholly a new version of ourselves. So the boundary between us and the surrounding environment is really nonexistent, because there's a constant exchange of molecules. Yeah. We lose on average, they say the average adult male loses 96 million cells per minute, but we also replace those at the rate of 96 million, roughly. Yeah. So that's the good news. So we've got all these cells that we're losing, we've got all these new cells that are replacing them. And I think, like you said earlier, before the break, that the different types of cells, and then hence different tissues, regenerate at a different rate. Right, yeah. And they all have specialized jobs and the cells are often built in such a way to aid that job physically different, to make that job easier, which is really cool, too. Right. Shows how versatile they are. Yes. Like stem cells are very versatile. Super. So let's say your skin, your skin regenerates every two to four weeks, I think. Yeah, exactly. You get a new healthy coating of skin every two to four weeks because your epithelial cells are particularly good at regenerating themselves. That's right. Well, I guess that would fall on the low side. Obviously, if we're talking seven to ten years on the super low side, you have the cells that line like your intestine and your gut, and those things don't last long at all because it's such a harsh environment. You wouldn't expect them to last weeks and months and years, I think. How long is it? Five days? Yeah. That's nothing. But the structure of your guts that are beneath that membrane lining that turns over every five days, they last about 15 years. Yeah. It's such a beautiful, elegant system that we have to keep us alive. Red blood cells last about 120 days, but then you have things like cells in your bone which actually regenerate as well. So your bones are over time, over a much longer period of time, actually becoming I mean, I hate to call them new bones, but they kind of are. Well, yeah, I mean, compare if you took your femur and somehow compared it to your femur when you were 15 years old, they are two totally different bones. Even though they're your bones, they were in the same place, growing in the same person with the same DNA. They're still different bones. They're made of different cells. Ten years or so for the bones. Yeah, something like that. For the human skeleton, 300 to 500 days for the liver. Very important organ. It is. And one of the other cool things about the liver is it's just gangbusters at regenerating itself. Yeah. You can apparently cut out 95% of a person's liver and it will grow back and you won't have full function, but it will function. You'll survive with just 5% of your liver. It's pretty amazing, actually. Yeah. Because it will just grow right back, kind of like a hornet's nest. Interestingly. The inner lens cells of your eye form in your embryo and basically don't change. Yeah. Now, is that why you have suffered from degeneration and vision? That's what I would guess. Is that the reason? So with the cornea lens, Chuck, when you're born, when you're conceived, right. You are a cell that divides finally, once that first division takes place. Those corneal cells, they're set in stone like your corneal cells are as old as you are, same age as you. Other cells that make up different parts of the eye, they're far newer. But your corneal cells, your cerebral cortex cells, they think, yeah, that's the one I mentioned. The brain and the heart muscles, those are the two big ones, because obviously the reason we have diseases like Alzheimer's and dementia is because the cerebral cortex has long thought to not regenerate cells at all. Now, I think they believe that they do in a very small number or different regions, like the old factory bulb probably really does. Yeah. In the hippocampus. So we can learn new things of smell can be refined over time. Yeah. And I think isn't that also the reason the smell is very much tied to your memory? Probably like a smell can conjure up a memory more clearly. Yeah. But the cerebral cortex itself, they don't think who was her name? Elizabeth Gould. Princeton did a lot of work on this because it was just basically set in stone for years. Like, no, it doesn't happen. And she did a lot of work over the years trying to prove that it did using tracer studies. And I think that where they are now, is they think it does some. Yeah. Here, there, here, there. But obviously we still have to mention Alzheimer's. So it doesn't regenerate like the rest of the body. Not even close. Yeah. Alzheimer's also may be produced, I guess, by plaques. Remember plaque build up in between your neurons that keep them from firing as well. Yes. It seems like we're so close to figuring out the secret to I don't know about not dying ever. I'm not talking immortality, but living much longer lives. Well, let's talk about that, because all of this stuff kind of leads to that question, if we regenerate so often, why do we die? And we'll address that right after this. All right. So, Chuck, there's this idea that if we are regenerating ourselves every seven to ten years, where the vast majority of our body cells regenerate, why do we age and why do we die? It doesn't really make sense in that respect. Yeah. What they think is it has to do with your DNA actually in the cell. Our cells, as we age, even the new ones that get replaced, which really stinks, become what they call sensit, which means that they can't divide any longer. We've talked about the Hayflick limit before, or replicative citizens is basically how many times your cells can divide over its lifetime. Yeah. And I think like a fibroblast, which is cells of the connective tissue and mammals, it's about 50 cell divisions. Yeah. And then it hits that point of sentence, and it starts sending out repair signals to your body that aren't necessary, and that causes inflammation. And we've talked about inflammation kind of being the source of most of the original problems that will eventually lead to your death. Yeah. Something becomes inflamed and leads to all kinds of problems. There's no repair needed, so it's a false signal. So they're trying to come up with drugs now. There's one called repamycine that tries to stop the cells from sending out those false signals, which is amazing. Yeah. That would be wonderful. There's another explanation for it as well, is that when our cells divide, especially over time, as we age, they're basically making photocopies of themselves. And you ultimately, years down the road, end up making photocopies of photocopies. Right. And those don't tend to pan out very well. So as far as analogies go, that one kind of makes sense that, yes, we have brand new cells, but the DNA copies the DNA blueprints that they're based on. It has seen better days many years back. Yeah, that makes sense. It's a good way to say it. We also talked a little bit about whether or not the heart muscle itself replenishes itself in the cells. And for a long time, they had no idea. But now, thanks to our buddy Dr. Frisson I don't even think we said who he works with, did we? No, he works with a Karolinska team. Oh. Yeah. Just like incredible scientists that are making amazing advancements and trying to figure this stuff out. But they did in fact, find that the heart does replace itself. The muscle cells, about 1% of the heart muscles are replaced every year at age 25. And that falls over your lifetime to less than half a percent per year by the age of 75. I spoke too soon. That does make sense. Yeah. So what they basically said is about half of your heart's muscle cells will be exchanged during a normal lifetime. Okay. Which is okay. It is. But it's slowing down over time. I mean, the heart's kind of essential. Yeah. But they're hoping again to develop drugs that can accelerate that process, too. Yeah. I don't know how far along there on that, but that'd be amazing. So there's this whole thing that kind of came up to me, man, like that all of this raises question to me. Right? Yeah. If you look at you or me or any living thing as an investment, like a molecular investment in the ability to reproduce right. Okay. Once you finish your reproductive age, then it does make sense that you would just kind of there would be built in this mechanism of aging and then death and then decay, which is what we do. We return back to the earth. To put it in kind of biblical terms. There's like that whole ashes to ashes, dust to dust things. Sure. It is very, very true. And if you look at us and you look at all living things as something that exchanges molecules with the external environment, takes them in, puts them out. Right. And you look at us as all connected in that sense. Yeah. Like we're just like a plant. Exactly. Or we're just like a rock. We're all that stuff. And those things are us. Because we're able to exchange basic ingredients, then it makes total sense that a person would come together, be conceived, start dividing cells, make more of itself, and then start to age and then die and decay, and then it would give something else a chance to come up from that again. Right? Sure. But then it makes you wonder what's the point of that? What do you mean? Like, think about it. If we're just the same as plants, like, why are we all here? Yeah. If the whole point is to just basically recycle materials because we are just recycling stuff from the environment and we're recycled as we die and decay, what is the point? Is our point just to be part of the carbon cycle? So we're moving carbon in and out of ourselves and in and out of the environment and moving it around. I don't understand what the point is of life, I guess, is what I'm saying. You're nihilist. No, I'm not saying I don't believe that there isn't a point. I'm just curious what it is. Because if we are the same as any other living thing in the definition of living is an exchange with an active exchange with the surrounding environment through breathing. Through eating, whatever. Breathing pooping. Yes. And then if you kind of take that a little further and say, well, clearly we're meant to reproduce or something like that, and then after that we age and die, what's the point? Like, why not just have one species of living thing and just let that do all of your carbon recycling or whatever. Yes, I think are you about to quit the show? Yeah, I see what you mean. Like, if we look at ourselves as a purely mechanical serving of pure, really mechanical function on the planet like we are to the carbon cycle what's the evaporation is to the rain cycle, we're a means of moving something along. Well, I think that's when you and it's." | ||
http://netstorage.discovery.com/DMC-FEEDS/MED/podcasts/2008/1215462200131sysk-contagious-yawning.mp3 | How Contagious Yawning Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-contagious-yawning-works | Yawning is contagious, but why? Check out the leading theories on contagious yawning and empathy in this HowStuffWorks podcast. | Yawning is contagious, but why? Check out the leading theories on contagious yawning and empathy in this HowStuffWorks podcast. | Tue, 03 Jun 2008 18:29:06 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2008, tm_mon=6, tm_mday=3, tm_hour=18, tm_min=29, tm_sec=6, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=155, tm_isdst=0) | 5704120 | audio/mpeg | "Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, a staff writer. Here@howstepworks.com with me are two of my favorite editors, chris Paulette and Candace Gibson. How are you guys today? Doing all right. Candace, what about you? That was a yawn from Candace. And actually, I strangely feel like yawning right now, which reminds me of an article I wrote once. It's called? Does contagious yawning mean you're nice? Are you guys familiar with this? Yeah. It's pretty amazing to think that something we don't know much about, like yawning could actually be passed on because you see somebody yawning and you have an empathetic feeling toward that person. Yeah, it is kind of amazing, Candace. Yeah. And not only is yawning a strange phenomenon, empathy is pretty strange, too, depending on how it's expressed. And empathy, just to bring you up to speed, is just essentially the way that you're relating to another person. That shows that you're trying to experience the feelings that they're experiencing, be them positive or negative. Empathy just shows that you're in tune with what the other person's doing. You can identify with them, you can put yourself in their shoes. In a nutshell, perfect nutshell. That's pretty much the link that people well, researchers have concluded that we yawn contagiously or we're susceptible to contagious yawning because we feel empathy. But that's pretty much where the solid explanations go. And Candace is actually yawning. I'm still yawning. I can't get over it. I'm just that nice. But I did want to tell you guys a little bit about yawning and some of the theories that are floating around out there about it. It doesn't just mean you're, what? Sleepy? Bored? All the above. That's true. It could be a number of things. Some researchers have even gone so far as to suggest that it could be a little bit like your teeth. Not your teeth, your dog's teeth. When he or she is barry their teeth to show anger or they're being defensive. They're saying maybe you are doing this subliminal response that you are going, don't mess with me. Yeah. Don't mess with me. Exactly. And people have even said that they can yawn at their dog and their dog will yawn back. So maybe it's something there to that theory. So have they found in studies that people yawn when their dogs bare their teeth at them? I didn't see anything suggesting that, to be honest with you. But it is interesting to note, I think you were saying earlier that it may actually be linked to a fight or flight response, and when you put it that way, that it's not so strange. Sure. We're talking about the African savannah. The fight or flight response, you mean, right? Well, yes. There's a theory that contagious yawning. Well, since you yawn, maybe to make yourself more alert, which would be helpful when you feel fear. Yeah. Because it carries blood to your brain. Right. So it kicks on that alert. Exactly. And if you feel fear, say, because the lion is approaching and you yawn in response through empathy, a fellow member of your species could pick up that yawn and pass it along, and before you know it, there's no one there for the lion to eat because they've all skin added. They got out of there. Yeah. Out of Dodge. Another theory has to do with the eyes, as QS. Have you guys heard about this? The eyes have it actually a researcher that I read about did a study to try and since yawning is contagious. He wanted to try and find a yawn that would get everybody. And the best he could do was about 55% people who. When he'd cover up the mouth. The eyes still made people yawn because he assumed that it was the big. Wide open mouth and the stretch that made people want to yawn. But when he covered up the eyes and just showed the mouth by itself, he got a slightly less response and he never could find a yawn. That was the perfect storm yawn that would have always made people yawn. So it seems like the eyes I buy into that because it's not like the parts of your face don't work in conjunction with each other. When I smile, my eyes crinkle. When I sneeze, my nose grinches up. Everything sort of works in conjunction with each other. So. I totally buy that. And another theory I buy is that people yawn because their bodies aren't getting enough oxygen. And that's a quick way to gulp a whole lot of air right in it. Just open your mouth as wide as it can go and get it inside. And if others see you doing this, they might take a cue that their environment isn't supplying them with enough oxygen either. So they yawn just when you do. Apparently, the fact that the eyes serve as a cue for contagious yawning, it's supported by a study of autistic or people with autism, that they showed slides of people yawning, but they were shown just the mouths. And apparently people with autism get their cues from people's eyes and they had no reaction to it whatsoever. Interesting. Yeah, which is interesting. And we know just sort of general science, that people with autism have a little bit less of an understanding of people's verbal or nonverbal cues and said it's interesting that they didn't get both parts working in conjunction to have an empathetic response, but that they just responded to the eyes. Well, it's going to require more study, and if you're interested in studying this for yourself, we suggest that you start with does contagious yawning mean you're nice? That's available on howstepworks.com we're all going to go take nap. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseepworks.com. Let us know what you think? Send an email to podcast at houseepworks. Comfy to you by the Reinvented 2012 camry, it's ready. Are you." | |
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/netstorage.discovery.com/DMC-FEEDS/MED/podcasts/2008/1225309852230hsw-sysk-prayer-healing.mp3 | How Prayer Healing Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-prayer-healing-works | Studies have shown that prayer has a positive effect on individuals, but can your prayer heal someone else? Check out this HowStuffWorks podcast to find out how science weighs in on the power of intercessory prayer -- and if it should at all. | Studies have shown that prayer has a positive effect on individuals, but can your prayer heal someone else? Check out this HowStuffWorks podcast to find out how science weighs in on the power of intercessory prayer -- and if it should at all. | Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2008, tm_mon=10, tm_mday=30, tm_hour=12, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=304, tm_isdst=0) | 16246225 | audio/mpeg | "What if we could change the world one relationship at a time? Don't miss the second season of Force Multiplier, the awardwinning podcast from iHeartRadio and Salesforce.org about tackling some of today's biggest challenges, like climate change, education, access, US. And global health. Listen in as host Baritoon de Thurston connects with impactful organizations like the Trevor Project, doctors Without Borders, and the University of Kentucky. Plus inspiring individuals like Amy Allison and Juan Acosta to discuss ways to maximize our impact. Listen to Force Multiplier on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. What if you were a global energy company with customers in different places on different systems? So you call an IBM and Red Hat to create an open hybrid cloud platform. Now data is available anywhere, securely. Let's create a hybrid cloud that can change in industry. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Welcome to stuff you should know from howstuffworkscom? This podcast is brought to you by Go to my PC. Providing fast, easy and secure access to your PC from any web browser, access emails, files, programs and network resources from home, the road, or anywhere there's an Internet connection set up. Takes just minutes. Try it. Free visit go to my PC.com stuff. I am. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. That's Chuck. Chuck Bryant. Josh Clark. Not Brian. I'm Josh. Right. We've got some listener mail claiming that Josh is Brian. Not true. At least they got the spelling of your last name almost correct without the T. I think they used the Y generally. Brian. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So it's not Chuck and Brian. It's Chuck Brian and Josh Clark Bryant. That's what I said. Sure. Lighting up. That's neither here nor there. No, it's not. What is here and what is there is an accessory. Prayer. Wow, that's a leap. I like it, too. Do you like that segue? It's like a bowl in a china shop. Let's go. Yeah. So, Chuck, I don't know how you feel about this, but there have been studies on prayer, right? Sure. And actually people who pray, who pray for themselves, for others, but who spend a significant amount of time praying. You could also call it meditating. Sure. They actually lead healthier lives. Did you know this? I did. I read your article. Okay. A lot of good info on there. Right. Let me ask you this, because this is something that I was aware of before I wrote this article, and it was really interesting to see how it's been studied, but I was aware that people have been studying it, but to find what the methodologies were like and what the results were exactly. Were you aware that prayer healed? Is that something that you would have accepted before you read this article? Well, I grew up in the church, in the Christian church, and anyone who's grown up in church or has been to church like that knows that prayer is very central. It's the personal conversation that you have with God. Right. Yeah. You're taught from early on that prayer makes a big difference. Right. And it actually does have a physiological difference. Right. Is that taught as well, or is this a happy byproduct? No, in my church it wasn't. At least they just said that you get results. I got you. Okay. Well, speaking of results, there have been studies that have evaluated people, examined people who pray a lot, and they tend to have lower blood pressure. They live longer, their heart rate is generally slower. They're a little more laid back physiologically than someone who doesn't pray. And there's been some explanations for it. Well, yeah, I know one that I think makes a big difference is many people who are, in fact religious probably tend to lead healthier, cleaner lifestyles issues, things like alcohol and smoking and other things that can. Avoiding prostitutes is a big one. That's a good one. Yes. I think that might have a lot to do with it personally. It definitely does. But we're not the only ones who thought of that. Other people have as well and explained it away with that. So there's been follow up studies that took all those factors into account, and they still found that people who pray tend to be healthier. True. My theory is that you're meditating when you pray. You're meditating. You're entering a transcendental state, a meditative state. So you're just more relaxed. And I think if you do that enough times, your body learns to relax. Yeah, that makes sense. That's what I think. Okay. So there's not a lot of people who are, I guess, debating whether or not prayer has an effect on the person who is praying. What is really contentious is whether or not praying can have an effect on anyone else or anything else in the universe. Right. That's where we get into the real sticky discussion. It is sticky. Are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. I know growing up, as I said, in the Christian faith, they would often tell us if a family member, a distant family member of anyone in the church were sick. Sure. They would call upon the church to pray for them. What do they call listings? Prayer lists or prayer shoutouts. Require shout out? Yeah. I don't remember, to be honest. But they would prayer request for people to keep them in their hearts and minds. Sure. Yeah. And you could actually call in and leave, like, a voicemail, and then you get added to the list. Right? No, I don't know anything about that. I'm pretty sure I've seen phone numbers, like prayer hotlines. Okay. I kid you not. No, I believe it. Okay, so you've got this congregation praying for this person. Do you have any anecdotal evidence, any story of somebody healing from that? No, I'm sure that probably happened here and there, but I don't remember that stuff now. Well, that kind of prayer is called intercessory prayer, or interceding on behalf of somebody, maybe asking for them to heal. Right. Hopefully you're not praying for them to die. That could still be considered an accessory prayer, but for the most part, people pray that somebody's going to rebound from an illness or get over a streak of bad luck or something like that. It's also called distant prayer because it's not centered on the individual you're praying out for somebody. This has also been studied. There's been some methodologies over the course of the last couple of decades, starting with this guy named Randolph Bird, who's a physician. And he was the first to create this really groundbreaking, landmark study. Right. Yeah. It was 88, I think. And I think he was a cardiac physician. Indeed. He assembled, I think, 353 different people's histories. And he found people who were statistically inseparable, meaning that they were the same age, they were the same race, they had the same heart conditions. They were on paper, they were one and the same, basically. And he contacted some groups, I think it was in California, where he got in touch with some different denominations. I think they were all Christian, but he got in touch with Baptists and Presbyterians and Catholics and all that. And they had these groups get together in groups of three or four. And these people would have the name of one patient. Right. Their condition. Yeah. And they would pray that they had a speedy and I think effective recovery, something along those lines. Right. And they prayed for him over the course of, I don't know, several weeks, I believe. And after this praying was done, the physician, Randolph Bird went back and studied who thrived and who didn't. Right. We should also say there is a control group of people who weren't prayed for. Okay, thanks a lot. Yeah, right. That's what I would have said. He actually found that there was a really significant difference, like a huge difference, actually, between the recoveries of people who were prayed for and those who weren't prayed for. Right. Something like 85%. 85% compared to 73.1%. That's enormous. Statistically speaking. 12% is very big. And the thing is, there was no one who could explain away what happened. Bird study has never been basically overturned. Right. The people who are praying didn't know the people they are praying for. The people who are being prayed for. There's nothing you can say that says, well, this is what happened. Right. Because that's a huge statistical difference. It is. That got the attention of the scientific community, of course. Big time. So all of a sudden, there's like a slew of basically follow up studies that use Birds methodology. This is the most beautiful thing about Randolph Bird, in my opinion. He used the scientific method, he used science to conduct an investigation into something that science doesn't believe in, which is prayer. Right. Intercessory prayer. And he created the study in such a way that it could be modeled. Like he said, here's how you do it. And other people have followed the same model, and they have come up with radically different results. Basically, another pretty big study was the Step study. Right. Which is the study of the effects of intercessory prayer. It was a huge study. It covered six different medical centers across the US. Right. And this was published in the American Heart Journal. Yeah. So it was pretty significant. It's bona fide. They basically broke these groups down into three groups. Those who received prayer but weren't aware of it, those who didn't receive any prayer, and those who received prayer and were aware that they were being prayed for. Exactly. Our patience. Yeah. So this study was, like you said, it was published in the American Heart Journal, which is pretty big journal as far as they go in this country. Right. They found that those who didn't receive prayer had about the same kind of recovery as those who did. It was like 52% to 51%. And even worse, those who were aware that they received prayer actually had the worst results. That was 59% of them had complications after heart surgery. Right. So this seems to fly in the face of the Bird study. Yes, it does. It's totally contradictory. It's also pretty counterintuitive, too. I mean, how would prayer be harmful? Right. And that's actually one of the reasons why people are investigating prayer, why science is why it's become kind of a niche field of study, because it's not really. If people are praying, maybe we should find out if it is, in fact, harmful. Science shouldn't just be like, Go pray. We don't believe in that. Whatever. Right. There should be investigations into it. And this is kind of startling. 59% of people who are aware they're being prayed for had complications following surgery. That alone warrants investigation to it. Right. Right. So that Step study was one of a number that have come up with nobody's ever come up with the kind of statistical difference that Randolph Bird did. Right. I think, personally, I'm a bit of a skeptic in life in general, and when I hear about studies like this, to me, prayer is something that's hard to quantify statistically because people pray in different ways. People pray for different lengths of time. I'm not sure how you could say that this solid group that prayed all prayed exactly the same in the same way and have the exact same beliefs. It's hard to quantify. Yes, it is. And again, Randolph Bird came the closest to it. He told these people how often to pray, what to say when they're praying specifically to pray for. Here's the problem with studying prayer is you can control these groups of people who are praying for these heart patients or whatever as much as you want. But if prayer is real, if prayer does work right, and you've got somebody else out there praying for this patient. It completely screws up the results. Like the patient itself, where they told not to pray for themselves. I don't know. And how would you control that? Right? Would you want to control that? Apparently, prayer is the number one alternative medicine in America that tops vitamins and herbs, which is like a multi billion dollar industry. And the best part is prayer is free, of course, but you can't control how much prayer you can't say. Here's ten CCS of prayer, let's see if it has an effect. Exactly. And you also can't control other people coming along behind you and saying, I'm going to pray for this person. Right. So it's very difficult to study and not everybody thinks you should study it. Right. These are people that are being treated medically as well. This is not Christian Scientists who, from what I understand a lot of times don't believe in medicine and they only believe in the power of prayer to heal. Yeah. No, these were people who are being treated through modern medicine and were being prayed for. Right. So you kind of like, I don't know, there's different doctors and different levels of experience and so that's something you also have to take into consideration as well. You can't say that everyone was getting the exact same care and their whole life history and whether or not these people typically recover quicker than others. I mean, there's a lot of factors that weigh in here. There are, but you could also make the argument that all those factors would appear in any study. Yeah, that's true. And prayer is just like this extra layer smack down, basically. Just smack me down. Yeah. Sorry, Chuck, I tried to do it gently, but like I said, not everybody thinks that we should be studying this. Right. And that falls on both sides. There's obviously scientists who are totally skeptical of prayer and think it's a waste of time and funding. Right. But there's also religious devotees who believe we shouldn't be studying this kind of thing either, that it's fally that you couldn't possibly study something like God. Right. And one guy put it that studying heart conditions. Studying the power of prayer is basically like asking a composer with, I think, a quadrillion times the talent of Beethoven to compose the notes to Three Blind Mice. Like, we're getting so granular here that we're missing the big picture. Right. I would love to hear that version of Three Blind matches. That would be really difficult. So, yeah, ultimately the jury is still out and I don't know personally whether I want it to ever come in. I think it'd be pretty cool. And I definitely believe that there are aspects of us as humans and among the universe that science either can explain under the scientific method or just hasn't figured out the right methodology to apply it. Right. I definitely don't think science explains all and anything science can explain doesn't exist. Right. And since my growing up in the church, now here as an adult, my belief is I'm sort of a to each his own kind of guy now. Sure, if you want to pray and you feel like it has an effect on you and your family and your loved ones, I say go for it. If you're skeptic and you don't think that it does, then don't. Yes. And try to avoid the harmful praying where you're actually praying for somebody to become injured. That's just me. Yeah, and I don't think that's me. Come on. So, different strokes for different folks, then. Fantastic. Yeah, like Gary Coleman. All right, well, coming up, Chuck is going to tell you about an article that satisfies the childhood fantasy of his. Indeed it does. What if you were a gigantic snack food maker and you had to wrestle a massively complex supply chain to satisfy cravings from Tokyo to Toledo? So you partner with IBM Consulting to bring together data and workflows so that every driver and merchandiser can serve up jalapeno, sesame and chocolate covered goodness with real time, data driven precision. Let's create supply chains that have an appetite for performance. IBM less creative. Learn more at IBM. Comconsulting. Josh, my friend, do you know where your passport is right now? Well, you better dig it up because Adventure is around the corner, and there's a card that's going to get you closer with the city Advantage Platinum Select Card. Every swipe earns you advantage miles and loyalty points, and two times Advantage miles at restaurants and gas stations so your everyday purchases can take your travel to new heights. Plus, card members get access to built in travel benefits. For example, your first check bag is free on domestic travel, so you and your family have room to pack for every possibility, like coming home with extra souvenirs. And with preferred boarding, you'll be in your seat sooner, ready for take off into Adventure. The hard part is deciding where you'll go first, because when you earn 50,000 Advantage bonus miles after qualifying purchases, adventure is on. So fasten your seatbelt and put away your tray table because there's so much world to see. And the cityadvantage Platinum Select Card is your ticket. You can learn more at City comAdventure and travel on with cityadvantage. All right, Chuck, what's the article then? Hold on. I love this. That satisfies a childhood fantasy, right? That sounds so perfect. No, it's not at all. It's could I install a hidden passageway in my home. Awesome. And I think I don't know, maybe it's a little boy thing, but when I was a little kid, just, like, hidden passageways and tunnels and all that stuff was just the coolest thing to me. That's Edmunds, right? Edmunds Rose. Molly Edmonds. Yeah. Great rider. Molly, you know, I haven't hidden passageway in my house going up. Did you pull a book down from your library? No. I know we had a linen closet, and for some reason, the interior of it was painted black. And there was a door at the back of the closet and it opened up onto the steps going down to the basement, which immediately got you onto the other side of the house. Bring out the gym. Hideandgoseeka. My House was awesome. Yeah, it was very cool. So you can read that one. Could I install a hidden passage away in my home and about 500 million other super cool articles on howstepworks.com? For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseofworks.com. Let us know what you think. Send an email to podcast@houseofworks.com brought to you by The Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means schools out, the sun's shining, the daylights longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music My Favorite Murder from Exactly Right media, My Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgara and Georgia Hardstarkk, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. You want your kid eating the best nutrition, right? And by that, we mean your dog. Halo Elevates is natural science based nutrition guaranteed to support your dog's top five health needs better than leading brands. 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How Trickle-Down Economics Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-trickle-down-economics-works | The concept of trickle-down economics is tied to Ronald Reagan, but the idea's been around and in use since the 20s. It's simple: Give more money to the wealthy and they can use it to rev up an economy. But is the whole thing just a scam? | The concept of trickle-down economics is tied to Ronald Reagan, but the idea's been around and in use since the 20s. It's simple: Give more money to the wealthy and they can use it to rev up an economy. But is the whole thing just a scam? | Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:23:31 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2014, tm_mon=7, tm_mday=22, tm_hour=14, tm_min=23, tm_sec=31, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=203, tm_isdst=0) | 40683394 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetuffworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W, Chuck Bryant and Jerry. And they're Snickering and Tittering, and that makes this sense. Stuff You Should Know. Yeah, we've got sidetracked before talking about things that trickle names. Names that trickle. Yeah, like the famous race car driver, Dick Trickle. Dude, I swear to God. Look him up. I will. Don't image search, just look them up. Okay. Specify race car. Yeah, okay. That's a good idea. You're a Google master with your Google foo. Yes. And we, the three of us, are apparently all eight years old again. Yes. Speaking of trickle, chuck. Hey. Happy birthday. That would be quiet. Jerry. You have a big mouth. You're always talking. Oh, I usually remember, but I didn't today, so happy birthday. Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. And this will be out several weeks later, but I'll get to relive my birthday all over again. Exactly. Thanks, man. Have you, chuckers ever seen the movie Ferris Bueller's Day Off? Yeah, I knew we'd go there at some point in this one. Yeah. Because of Ben Stein. Yeah. Okay, good. So you know the answer, then. Something D-O-O. Economics. Anyone who do economics. Yeah, when they're in econ class. The guy who says bueller. That's Ben Stein. Remember he had that show When Ben Stein's Money which was really his money. Yeah, it was, wasn't it? I think so. I think the whole gimmick legit, I think maybe like they gave it to him if it wasn't one or came out of a salary, who knows? Probably. But before that show came on, he was in Ferris Bueller's Day Off as an econ professor. And I believe he does have a degree in economics. He's also just a great actor and Viseen pitch man. But what he was talking about in there no, he was clear eyes. Clear eyes, yeah. Thank you. Clear eyes is awesome. Yeah, that's right. That sounded like not Ben Stein. Well, steiny as I get. Anyway, he was talking about voodoo economics. And voodoo economics was another name for trickle down economics, aka Reaganomics. And the person who coined the term voodoo economics, do you know John Hughes? No. Yeah, it was George Bush senior. Yeah, HW. I remember that. Yeah. He was running in the primaries against Reagan for the 1980 election before he came on as his vice president. And he was deriving Reagan's economic policies, specifically his belief in trickle down economics as voodoo economics. Because there's apparently some sort of magic to the whole thing that makes it work rather than sound economic principle. Yeah, it occurred to me today when I was studying the stuff, that John Hughes picked this very topic to represent the most boring thing you could talk about. I guess so. Yeah. And it took me a few times to figure it out, because my brain doesn't skew toward understanding economics. It's tough to do so. But I finally did, and I was like, you know what? It's not the most boring thing ever. It's pretty interesting. If I came around, that means anyone can. Now it's just our burden to make it interesting to everybody else. That's right. Which we've already failed. That's spectacular. That's right. So let's talk about this idea. First of all, trickle down economics. We'll explain the whole thing in detail, starting in just a moment. But we should probably say it's a disclaimer. If you want to drive a fiscal conservative or a conservative economist, or just a conservative in general. Crazy. Mention trickle down economics. Like, call what they call supply side economics trickle down economics. It drives them bonkers. There's no such thing as trickle down economics. It's a derisive term. It doesn't capture the spirit or the thought behind supply side economics, which is what they've come around to call it. Yeah, but back in the day, it was definitely called trickle down economics. And the whole point, the reason why it was called trickle down economics is that the idea behind it is if you place wealth with the wealthiest people, this idea goes, they will take that money and invest it into the economy, which will get things running again. And as a result, that economic engine revving up will create more wealth at the top. That trickles down to the lower working and middle classes. Yeah, like, who better to stimulate the economy than the super rich? And they will maybe open a business to put people to work, and then those workers will benefit directly from that investment that that person made. Right. So this is the whole theory behind it. We should also disclaim even further that economics as a field is so far from science, it's preposterous. Most economic theory that you ever will run into from John Maynard Keynes or Adam Smith or Jean Baptiste. Yeah. These guys are talking about pure economies, the United States, and I don't think there's any economy in the world that is a pure economy, free market economy. The United States has things like tariffs, and we have things like government intervention, tax policy, monetary policy. There's intervention in the market. So you can't ever say we can't say, really what causes recessions and what brings us out of them, or whether trickle down economics is effective or if it's not, or if it is effective, is it effective in the long run or the short run? And what about the opposite way? Is that effective in the long run or the short run? We don't know. People think they do, though. That is the thing. That's why this kind of stuff can get people's blood boiling. The point of this one is to just talk about trickle down economics and the theory behind it and why it may or may not work. And on the caveat that we don't know and neither do economists yeah, I think I left this a little frustrated after my research because I thought I would come away with an answer. But if you look up Reaganomics, which is another name for Reagan's version of the supply side economics, you will find 100 articles well, more than that, but 100 articles on what a great success it was and then the abject failure of economics, and no one is going to agree. I looked at some of these theories and said, well, that makes sense in an ideal world, right. Then I look at the opposite and think, well, that makes sense in an ideal world. Right. And I don't know if you like you said, I don't know if there is an answer, even though everyone thinks that they're right. Both people can't be right. Both sides. No, it's true, because these are very opposite, in most cases, ideas. Yeah. But what I did find was a bunch of articles, after digging further, that said the Failures and successes of Reaganomics. And I think, to me, that's probably a little more accurate because it is in a black and white situation. Well, part of the problem is, if you point to Reagan's tax policies, right, and Reagan is tied to trickle down economics yes. We'll get into the history, we'll clear all this up, but he's not really the first one to implement this now, but he's tied to it. But if you look at Reaganomics, the problem is this, Chuck. If you say, well, the 90s were very prosperous. We had the.com boom and the Nasdaq hit like, a record 10,000 points in the was from Reagan's policies. Well, you can't say that that was from Reagan's policies. We don't know. We just simply don't know. Was it something short term that the Clinton administration was doing, or was it the long term effects of Reagan's tax cuts? We don't know. And we're going to get scores of email from people saying what we do know. Right, but we don't know. So just send your email. That's fine, but you're wrong. Well, I guess we should go ahead and say, too, that just the name trickled down was coined by Will Rogers famous, humorous, in the 1920s. It is not a 1980s thing. It had been around for a while, right. And he said, quote, the money was all appropriated for the top in hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. And that's where it started to get a derogatory feel around that name, for sure. Since the time especially since the people who champion trickle down economics or this particular version of trickle down tax policy have tried to distance themselves from the term trickle down. Right. Because it does seem elitist and it seems like a big wealth transfer, which, in fact, it is. Let's talk about this. Trickle down policy isn't necessarily associated with Reagan's tax cuts, right? The whole idea behind trickle down, as I said already, is you take wealth and you give it to the wealthiest people. That's what's done. It's a wealth transfer, and it's usually done at a time when you're in an economic slump. So you're hoping to revitalize things. Yeah, it's the government trying to smooth out the rough spots in the national economy, like aka recession. Yeah. So you're transferring wealth. You're transferring wealth, though, on the premise that that money is going to be reinvested. Reinvigorated. You used to reinvigorate the economy. Right. So it is a wealth transfer. But with the one we're talking about today, specifically, we're talking about Reagan's version. So it's wealth transferred through tax cuts. Yes. Right. Yes. So when Reagan came into office, he took over a tax policy where the highest tax rate was like, 70%. The highest earners were paying 70% on their highest income. Yeah. And he got that down to about 50. Yes. Which is still seems incredibly high today. In an age where we're paying, like, 35%, the highest earners are. Yeah. So the point is Reagan did it through tax cuts. Yeah. But that doesn't mean, like, trickle down economics doesn't equal tax cuts necessarily. Right. It's trickle down ways. That's one way of putting more money into the hands of the wealthiest people. Right, exactly. It's really a question of supply and demand, and I guess we can go back through time a little bit to John Baptise, who you mentioned, 19th century French economist, and his philosophy has been misinterpreted a lot as supply creates its own demand. Yeah, it's not exactly right. What he was really saying is products are paid for with products, and money just had, like, a temporary function. Yeah. Like, if you are somebody who produces something, when you produce that something, that item, when you go make that shoe and you're going to sell your shoe, which is the whole reason you made the shoe in the first place. Sure. And then with that money, you can go use it to buy other goods and services. Right. So the production of that shoe created a wage for you, which in turn stimulated consumption demand from you for something else. Yeah. Product is paid for the product. The misinterpretation that supply creates its own demand is just a bastardized version. And that basically means that there would never be a failed product. Like you can just produce and produce and produce. Right. Which isn't sound. No. That's insane. And I think Safe would have saved that is not true as well. Well, he did, during his lifetime, even say, like well, no, I mean, it's possible that there is such a thing as overproduction. Sure. I mean, if you think about it, like, during the housing market crash, starting a few years ago, there was a glut of homes on the market. And it's not like the people who are building homes just merely went on building homes and building homes and building homes. Like, once the demand ceased, they stopped producing. And we still had a glut on the market, and the ones who were still just sinking money into building just stopped, basically. And it was because there was an oversupply, because demand had ceased. So the idea that if you produce it, demand will come on a short term basis is kind of a fallacy. Yeah, but in the earlier days of this country, a lot of big thinkers agreed with him, like Jefferson. But the tide turned later on in our country with the introduction of Mr. Keen keynesian economics talked about in our audiobook. Yeah, we did stuff you Should Know, super stuff. Guide to the Economy. Yes. Which is probably super outdated. I wonder, but I think there's some evergreen content in there. Yeah, I mean, it was like an Economics 101 course. Yes, that's true with us. So the basis of, say's, law is that if you stimulate production, then you'll get the economy going again. And it was implemented for a while, like some of the early 20th century presidents, like Hoover, among others, like Harding and Coolidge. Yeah, JFK. Well, JFK later. But early on in the 20th century, harding and Coolidge both implemented this kind of what's called supply side policy. Tax policy says law. Right. Where if you stimulate production through lowering taxes at the top, and we'll tell you in a second how those two are correlated, you can get the economy going yet. Well, Hoover also followed the same policy, and under Hoover's watch, the Great Depression happened. Yeah. Which would cause any just regular thinking person, even if they don't understand economics, to think, hey, we're doing it wrong. Right. So Roosevelt came along. That's right. Roosevelt held the opposite view, and he was very much a Keynesian, and he was operating at the same time that Keynes was writing and working himself. And John Maynard Keynes said no, you guys have it backwards. You don't stimulate the supply, you stimulate the demand. Then all of a sudden, if you have a housing glut and you suddenly have people who have more money to spend, they'll take care of your housing glut, and then things can get back to normal. We reach equilibrium again. Yeah. He was about short term ideas, short term fixes, maybe lower interest rates, maybe taxes, fiscal policy, taxes and spending, basically what you hear a lot about these days. Keynesian economics kind of lasted a long time until probably Kennedy and then Reagan. Right. There's only been a handful of us presidents who really endorse the trickle down theory, like, wholeheartedly since the 20th century. Yeah. So yeah, the Keynesian policies ruled, and it was very much about, like, cutting taxes for the lower and middle and working classes, increasing taxes for the rich. Because if you're a government, you still need revenue, right? Sure. You can't just cut taxes for everybody. If you cut Texas for one group, you kind of need to increase it for another because you still need your money coming in. Of course, you could also take the radical step of figuring out how to eliminate waste and bloat in government. That would help a lot. But we're not talking about that in this one. No, we're talking about trickle down economics. That's right. So then along comes Kennedy, who says, hey, my dad was pretty rich, so I'm kind of thinking that this trickle down thing might work. Right. So he got into supply side economics, and then when Reagan came along, he really championed this whole idea, and it was out of a result of some guys in the 70s saying there's this whole other thing that we've been ignoring, which is this trickle down tax policy that we should implement. And they got Reagan into it and he implemented it. Yeah. And after this message break, coming up here in a SEC, we are going to talk a little bit about if it doesn't sound like it makes sense to you, there is a certain curve that will explain that might clear it up for you. All right. So we're going to talk about the Laffer curve, which was also in Ferris Bueller. Oh, was it? Yeah. He says laugher curve. But in high school, I had no idea what I was like. What are those words together I don't understand. Laffer was a person. Laffer? And the Lafar curve helps explain a little bit why trickle down economics could possibly work. Is that a good neutral way to say that? I would say so. The idea of the Laffre Curd curve is that the relationship between taxes and revenues is a curve instead of a direct relationship. Yeah. So at a certain point, let's say you own a company making shoes and you gross $10 million through the first two financial quarters, and you're taxed at, let's say, 50%. And if you make any more money, then you're going to jump up into that 90% tax category. You might slow down production, you might halt the production altogether and say, you know what? I'm going to take off the rest of the year. Right. Maybe even put these people out of work for four to six months for low. For a low, and because I don't want to be taxed anymore. So if you look at that on a graph, if you text people 100%, they're not going to work. If you tax people 0%, you're not getting any money. So in the middle of there is the curve. Right. Basically, Laffers curve suggests that the correlation between tax rates and tax revenue is not totally positive. At some point, it starts to go back down. Yeah. That's called the prohibitive range. At a certain point, people don't want to be taxed in that range. Yeah. And it's not even necessarily that they are not working any longer because they resent being taxed. What Laffer was pointing out is that there is this prohibitive range, and within the prohibitive range, you remove the incentive to work theoretically. Right. And James McGrath, who wrote this gave a pretty good example where it's like if you make that money and you are tech 50% that's tolerable, you still get to keep 50% for yourself. Right. But when you're testing that 90th percentile, let's say you're going to make another million dollars, you have to give 900,000 of it to the government. You just get to keep 100,000. Well, you might decide to just go and spend the rest of the year at your beach house with the money that you did make, not because you resent being taxed, because it's just not worth it to exert that effort to make that next million dollars when you just get to keep 100,000 of it. So at that point, in that prohibitive range, the tax policy is effectively keeping people from working, inducing them to not work any longer, which is bad for an economy. And that's if your income is directly related to your work. Right. You could conceivably if you owned a factory or something and you didn't have to really exert any problems, and you could still make payroll and all that stuff, it might be worth it to just leave it to these other people to make that extra $100,000 for you rather than go off to the beach house. But if your effort directly is taxed, then yes, it would become a disincentive toward work conceivably. We should point out Chuck and Jane didn't do a very good job of doing that in this article. Laughers Curve is a thought experiment. It's not based on data. It's not a hard and fast rule or a law. It's basically an intuitive idea of tax rates and their effect on tax revenue. Yeah, but you don't even have to be a business owner. Let's say you're just a regular employee that makes a salary. You have a salary sweet spot as well. It's great to get promotions and to get raises, but if you're really climbing the ladder at a certain point, you might think, man, I got a big raise and I'm making barely any more money than I made before this big promotion because I've been kicked into a higher tax bracket. So that's the prohibitive range and it can apply to you. I mean, you don't stop working. No, but you may say, I don't actually want that promotion because it's going to be more responsibility and really not much more money. So I'm going to hang out right here rather than keep going yeah. In my little 20% range or whatever it is. Right. So that's laughs curve. Yes. And it's kind of the basis of trickle down tax policy. It's the idea that, okay, there is a point where you can text too much and now you're actually slowing down the economy. So based on Laughs Curve, when you're looking at it through trickle down policy yeah, there's a point. Then, like you said, there's a sweet spot as far as tax revenue goes, and it creates this seeming paradox where if you cut tax rates, at a certain point, you'll actually increase tax revenue because people will be incentivised to work more throughout the year. And the other basis of trickle down theory is that you are going to put more money or keep more money with the people at the wealthiest people who under this idea are more likely to invest it right back into the economy. Right. And when they do that, supposedly, allegedly the economy booms. Yeah. What you can't account for is just the single person this is looked at in the broadest terms because somebody could make all their money and just sit on it in the bank, which isn't reinvesting it. That is a really, really, really big point. You'll remember back at the beginning of this recession, the Fed was doing everything it could to cheapen lending and still has been, and it didn't do anything. Yeah. Come on. Like you have to take into account things like insecurity fear. Being human. Yes, being human. We're not necessarily rationally maximizing actors. Humans are like there is such a thing as fear and the idea that maybe hoarding money is best. So what's possible then, if you follow this trickle down tax policy, is you're taking money from everybody else and giving it to the rich. Or if your head just spun because you're a fiscal conservative, what you're doing is allowing the rich to keep more of their income, but they're not doing anything with it. Right. At least as a short term fixed, that's not a good idea because you can probably bet that eventually the rich are going to take that money and invest it back in the economy, but it's going to make more money. Yes. But when is that going to happen? You can't really say. And part of the other problem with it is that you are then also basically handing money out at a fire sale. You're saying, hey, here's a bunch of money invested back in the economy. And have we mentioned the bargain basement rates you can get on all of these businesses over here because the economy is in a recession. Yeah. So infomercial. Yeah, very much. It is literally a wealth transfer. And under some circumstances, like the recession that we're still coming out of now, it is a wealth transfer and an asset transfer in that the people who have the most money, the wealthy, also have the most buying power and they have the best bargains. Yeah. Thomas Sowell is an economist and he won't call it trickle down economics because he thinks it literally benefits the workers immediately and first because in the idealized version, they're going to reinvest and the very first thing that's going to happen is they're going to put people to work and people are going to have jobs. So, yeah, he's not going to call it trickle down theory because he thinks it works literally the opposite way. No, I read a column in the National Review by him and he's like, you'll never find a legitimate economist. A history of economic theories and policies and analysis. You'll never find trickle down economics anywhere. Like, it drives them crazy that people call it that because it has such a negative association, an elitist wealthy association. Sure. Yeah. And if you're doing election time or during if you see these big tax cuts for the wealthy, if it makes your blood boil because you think these people are obviously in the hip pocket of the politician, that may be true, but you can still remove yourself from that and look at the theory itself and does it work or does it not? And we will do that after this message. So, Chuck, let's do just that passionless rundown of how a trickle down supply side tax policy works. Yes. I mean, it's got to be passionless with me because I have no idea. I can't argue hard for any side. Yeah, because I read so many articles disputing one another completely that I have no idea. Okay, so we're in a recession. Yeah. And there's a discussion is it supply or demand that you want to stimulate? Well, with supply side economics, trickle down is what you call it in the vernacular. Sure. You want to stimulate the supply because under this belief, if you stimulate the supply, the people who are producing stuff will have stuff for sale and people will buy it and more money will enter the economy and things will get back to normal. Because the basis of this is that people still work during recessions and since they're working, they have money to buy things. Not everybody is working, but you can handle the idea that not everybody's working by getting production going again because that creates jobs and that in turn generates even more income. Passionless. So how do you do that? Well done. According to trickle down supply side tax policy, you cut the tax rates of the wealthiest people. You incentivize them to keep working harder and harder because they get to keep more and more of it themselves on the hope that rather than keeping it themselves hoarding. They will inject it into the economy through things like investing. Expanding their businesses. Hiring more people. Opening new businesses and taking that investment and making more money themselves. But in the meantime spreading the wealth around through things like wages and tax revenues. Through minimum wages. So that is supply side tax policy. And whether it works or not, the jury is still out. I did find something from Faireconomy.org, which I have to say, I don't know whether they're nonpartisan or liberal. They definitely didn't strike me as conservative. So take it however you want, but they took the top tax rate and it's changed from 1954 to 2002. And they took the changes to that top tax rate, the highest tier, which is the one you're supposed to cut under this type of tax policy and the juxtaposes against four different economic indicators growth in the gross domestic product, which is kind of like the indicator of the overall health of the economy. Income growth rate, which is how the average American's wealth grows, I think, changes to unemployment and the growth of the hourly wage. And they found that the correlation was basically statistically nonexistent. That when you lower tax rates or raise tax rates, but specifically, in this case, when you lower the highest tax rate, it does nothing to improve the GDP, to improve hourly wages, to improve median wealth. Just statistically speaking, over the course of this, lowering the tax rates did nothing for those things. So speaking from that end, you can say, well, it doesn't really do anything. Yeah. Well, with Reaganomics, I think well, again, I say most people agree, but no one agrees. It did help inflation if it was because of his policies, but tax revenues didn't see much change at all under those policies. We're not even getting into the part of Reaganomics where he kind of shut down trade with a lot of countries, keep it in house. And the effect that had and I've gotten varying answers on how long after presidency can you even look back with a good judgment of, like, the policies really take effect ten years later is when you're going to see or, no, it's more like 20 years, or no, you can see it immediately with short term fixes. So the whole thing is very frustrating because no one agrees. Everyone thinks they're right. Yeah, that's the frustrating part, is everybody thinks they're right. Like Obama's policies are almost virtually the exact opposite of Reagan's. Well, that's funny you say that, because that's not necessarily true. In a lot of ways, they are. Well, in that he kept the Bush era tax cuts going, he's actually well, that's true. Kept lower tax rates than Reagan did. And Reagan's always pegged with the trickle down economic theory. Right? Yeah. Obama's got this other one going. It's called quantitative easing. Yes. So with Reagan, it was trickle down tax policy. Under Obama, it's trickle down monetary policy. And by pumping money into the markets through the Fed yeah. It's actually helping because of this income inequality. It's helping the wealthiest Americans by far without anything trickling down, really, to the lower working and middle class Americans. So trickle down policy doesn't necessarily just mean tax policy. It can also mean monetary policy. And we've got a very specific trickle down policy being carried out under Obama's entire two terms so far through quantitative easing. Either way, there's a vast transfer of wealth going on right now, just as there was in the 80s. Yeah. I suggest people read up on their own if they want to jump in this argument. This one kind of also once you really start looking into it, especially if you go beyond what helps and really step back and look at what's. Being done and the effects of it forget my idea is the best way to cure recession. Theoretically, if you just get out of that mindset and you look at economic policies and you look at them through the lens of income inequality, then suddenly conservative and liberal and Democrat and Republican all just kind of fade away. And basically everybody has reason to feel like they're being talked out of something very valuable. Yeah. I came up with an idea. I'm sure I'm not the first person to come up with it. Josh and Amics, I wonder if you did cut down on the tax rates for the wealthy to about where they are now. This is like bargain basement tax rates, frankly, 35%. It used to be at 90% in the was the highest. Now it's 35% under Reagan. Yeah. Much of the world pays a lot more taxes than we do. Oh, yeah. So 35%, I think, is fair for everybody, to say the least, if not unfair because it's so low. Right. But let's say that it's fair. You keep the tax rates low on the wealthiest earners and you let them build up as much money as they want in their lifetime. But when they die, you tax their estate like there is no tomorrow. Yeah. And I wonder, first of all, you increase revenue. Sure. But you also prevent dynasties. You want to prevent dynasties. Sure. I read an article about how those who inherit wealth tend to invest it less. They tend to hoard it more because they didn't have any means of accumulating wealth other than a windfall. I think if you just look at it, statistically speaking, and you look at rather than, again, on an individual basis, if you look overall when wealth is inherited rather than earned, the inherited wealth is less often invested in ways that create new jobs than the wealth that's earned. And it's the same thing. Like if you win the lottery or something like that, you should be terrified of losing that money because you didn't do anything to earn it. So there's no guarantee whatsoever that you will ever earn that money or have that money again once you spend it. If you amass a fortune in industry and lose it, you did it once, there's a likelihood that you could go do it again. So you're more likely to take more risks with that wealth. But people work to take care of their families for generations to come, and that's what their goal is. Right. So let's say you have $100 million estate, okay? Okay. And you have one kid and your estate is taxed at 90%. When you die, your kid still gets $10 million. If your kid inherited $10 million, you're a wealthy person and your kid inherits $10 million, I think you can get your eternal rest easy knowing that your kid is going to be okay with the $10 million for the rest of his or her life. I think that's fair. That's enough to set them up in business, for sure. That's enough of a leg up that most people don't have. That's fine. You have to agree with me. Yeah. I think it's like when I hear about Bill Gates is only going to leave his kids so much money, or whoever. Was it Bill Gates or Warren Buffett or someone? They both pledged, like, a significant amount of their estates right. To not just leave that to their children. I think that's great, but I think that's, like, it should be a person's choice, and the government shouldn't make that decision for them. Government making decisions like that, that makes my blood boil. But that's tax policy, man. Like, they can make that decision while you're alive or when you die. It's still your income being taxed either way. It's like, are they texting your inheritance before your death? Well, but it isn't tax policy because Josh Anomics isn't. No, but the very fact that there are taxes and that progressive means that the wealthiest people pay more. The more you earn, the more tax you pay. So why does it matter whether it's now or when you die? And that's not an entirely it's kind of a glib interpretation, because I realize what I'm saying is normal taxes now and then a heavy tax when you die. Right. To prevent dynasties and to increase revenue. I just don't think it'll disincentivize work, because I think while you're alive, you still want to make money. The people who are dedicated to amassing hundreds of millions or billions of dollars, that's not going to prevent them from making money while they're alive. They're still alive, and their kids still get a slice of the pie. Right, but what about their kids'kids and their kids kids? Well, then it's up to their kid to go out and through his own effort or her own effort, amass their own fortune just like everybody else's. Everybody gets to start at zero. Although those rich kids still get that leg up of 10% of the estate. It's just my idea. I got you, Josh and Amy. Josh and Amy, man, we are going to get some letters for that one. You got anything else? And hey, let me say, I think people should be able to live much more meagerly than they do. I'm not a proponent of people leading these lavish wasteful lifestyles, but I think if you've made your money in a legitimate way, then you're right to do so, I guess. Yeah. I wouldn't want some government putting their hand in my pocket and saying, hey, you worked really hard for all that. Give me 90% of it. Well, I mean, who does? Nobody wants that. Especially when you look at government wastefulness or if you don't want to fund war or something like that. Then it makes it even harder to bite. Yes. The whole thing makes me want to drop out and move to an island or some place in the woods, very quiet, to where I don't have to even think about any of this stuff. I got my little garden. I got my chickens and my goats. You need to go make some money so you can do that. Yeah, I want just a little nine bedroom house on like 120 acres with the staff. Yeah. All right. Are we done with this? We are done with trickle down economics. If you want to learn more about it, you can read this article on HowStuffWorks.com just type trickle down economics and search bar. And since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this one the Waiting is the Hardest Part. Hey, guys, just found your podcast a few months ago and I love it. The reason I'm thanking you is because I have a bit of a worrying problem. I just sent out my application to dental school and now I'm playing the waiting game. Through my waiting, I always find myself worrying and wondering what could happen, even though I know it's not the best thing for me. Through my long days at work this summer, listening to you guys really helps me not only take my mind off the process, but helps take the bite off my worrying mind and even makes me laugh out loud while people look at me like I'm on crack. Which, by the way, I know all about through your crack podcast. That was a good one. So thanks for what you do. You're informative and your humorous podcast makes my day easier, helps me through the waiting game, and teaches me so much about what I do not know. By the way, I know it's a long shot, but if by any chance you read this on listener mail, please give a shout out to my fiance, Elizabeth. We have less than a year before our big day. And that is from Caleb Davis indicator in Indiana. Yes. So, Caleb, I was just making sure there wasn't some new state I didn't know about. Indaho. Yes. So Caleb and Elizabeth from Indaho. Congratulations. And Caleb, I hope you get into a dental school, my friend. Follow up with us. Does Caleb ride us frequently? Is that the Caleb I'm thinking of. No, that is not okay. You're thinking of the Caleb that won our contest and had lunch with us. Is that the same Caleb that writes us sometimes follows us on Twitter? Yeah, I think so. Oh, hey, we don't say it's not. I don't remember. Well, at any rate, thanks to all the Caleb's out there who listen, we appreciate you. All right? If your name is Caleb, or even if you're not and you want to get in touch with this, you can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on our Facebook page. It's Facebook.com stuff you should know. You can send us an email to stuff podcast at how stuff works.com and join us at our home on the web, the Beautiful stuffyouhennow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetoftworks.com." | ||
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podcasts.howstuffworks.com/hsw/podcasts/sysk/2017-04-27-sysk-multiple-sclerosis-final.mp3 | How Multiple Sclerosis Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-multiple-sclerosis-works | When the immune system mistakes the tissue covering neural connections as foreign invaders, the result can devastate the body. There is hope, however, in a new radical treatment that resets the immune system. | When the immune system mistakes the tissue covering neural connections as foreign invaders, the result can devastate the body. There is hope, however, in a new radical treatment that resets the immune system. | Thu, 27 Apr 2017 07:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2017, tm_mon=4, tm_mday=27, tm_hour=7, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=117, tm_isdst=0) | 41061644 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school's out, the sun shining, the daylight's longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, my Favorite Murder from exactly right media, my Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilguera and Georgia Hard Stark, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. Picture this, friends. You could be packing a carry on for a trip to Hawaii when you realize you're going to need a bigger bag. But it's cool because you booked your flight with your City Advantage Platinum Select card. So you can check a bag for free on domestic travel and still have room for those souvenirs. And surprise, those souvenirs also earned you Advantage Miles. Actually, you earned Advantage Miles and loyalty points with each swipe. So let's start dreaming about your next next adventure. This could be you, and you could be anywhere with the City Advantage Platinum Select card. Learn more at City comAdventure and travel on with cityadvantage. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W, Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there. Their finger on the button. And this is stuff you should know. Not the button. Well, it's a button. She doesn't have the nuclear suitcase. It's B button. As far as we're concerned. That's our nuclear suitcase. Yes, because we're dropping bombs every time we drop an episode. That's right. How are you feeling? Pretty good. I am. I'm a little apprehensive about this one. How come? Well, I've been avoiding this one for years because one of my very best friends died from complications of Ms. Oh, man. Just last year you failed to tell me that when I sent this one over your way as a suggestion. Well, you'd send it before he died, and I didn't think I could do it, and I just kind of feel like now is the time. Okay. And weirdly, yesterday was his birthday and no, it would have been his birthday and you did not know that and had sent it over and it was just kind of one of those eerie things where I was like, all right, this has got to happen. What's your friend's name? Billy. Well, this one's for Billy. Yeah. And this will be pepper his story throughout this. It's very sad stuff, man. Well, I'm right here with you, man. Thank you. Just lean on me when you need it. I appreciate it. Okay, so we are talking multiple sclerosis, or Ms as it's called, and I knew very little about this. I guess you probably are a lot more familiar with it than I am then, huh? Yeah. Obviously, personally, his journey with it. But as we will see, everyone's journey with Ms is different. Depending on what kind you have and depending on you as an individual, it can progress in different ways very slowly, very quickly. It can be devastating. It can be very manageable. He had one of the worst kinds. Yeah. From what I understand, it's fairly rare for someone to die from complications of Ms. Right? Yeah. I mean, I don't know if rare is the word, but it's definitely not the common outcome. Got you somewhere between rare and common, I think I got you. But it's already a fairly rare disease. I think something like 400,000 people in the United States, and I think 2 million worldwide have it, which, I mean, it's a substantial number of people, but in the context of the larger global and national population, it's not that many. It is rare, I would guess. Yeah. It's just a little bit of an overview, I guess they call it the prime of life disease. And it's very cruel in that way because it most often strikes people between 20 and 50. But I think even usually in your twenty s. And that's when Billy was hit with it. And I think more women than men get it. Yeah. By far. Because it's an autoimmune disease, and more women get autoimmune diseases more, which I didn't know. More Caucasians get it, and apparently Caucasians of Northern European descent are more likely to get it. And there's a lot of mystery about why people get this. Yeah. Like, for example, why Caucasian people more than people with darker skin. Or also, I think, part of the same coin, why people who live away from the equator more than people who live in the tropics. That suggests that the sun might have something to do with that. Or I think one of the things that they've been looking into lately is vitamin D, which you produce through exposure to the sun. Yeah. It's really a mystery in a lot of ways. Some people have brought up the idea that there are clusters of areas. Other people have said that's not the case. Clusters are BS. You're reading your reverse engineering, what do you call it? A college, I guess. Stop bringing up clusters. Yeah. Basically environmental, or whether it's environmental or hereditary. Well, environmental people don't know for sure. That would suggest that clusters could exist. Right. But the fact that they're not sure if it is environmental or not, I would think that leaves that cluster thing open to debate. Yeah, but whether or not it's hereditary, it's up for debate, too, because I think it says the risk for people with parents, siblings or children who are diagnosed between one in 21 in 40, whereas it's one in 750 for the general population. Right. Obviously got something to do with heredity. Or it could be that you tend to live with your parents and your siblings. So you would share the same environment with them too. There's a lot of mystery surrounding the underlying causes. There really is. So much so that they don't even know what is going on. Well, they do know generally what's going on on the biological level, but not specifically. Right? Yeah. So multiple sclerosis is, like you said, it's an autoimmune disease where your body's immune system attacks your own body. There's a number of different ones. Like, there's crohn's diseases. One, there's inflammatory bowel syndrome. And they all have in common that the body is mistaking, or the immune system is mistaking some part of some normal natural part of the body as a foreign invader and is attacking it as such. And in the case of multiple sclerosis, the body is mistaking what's called the myelin sheath, this fatty substance that protects the axons that neurons, that nerve cells communicate between, they attack that sheath, and as they attack that sheath, they start to break it down. And basically, what amounts to scar tissue and a type of plaque starts to develop, and those form lesions, and it can happen anywhere on your brain or your central nervous system. That's essentially what multiple sclerosis is. Yeah, those plaques, that's called a sclerosis. So literally, multiple sclerosis means you have multiple plaques, this hardened tissue it places on your body. And like you said, you have the neurons, which are the nerve cells themselves, and the axons are the fibers that connect everything wrapped in that sheath. And that sheath, it's very basic and cruel, how it acts. Any autoimmune disease is just devastating because there's just something about the body making a mistake and turning on an otherwise healthy self. It's just I don't know. It's hard to wrap your head around it. It really is. One of the reasons why it's so tragic is because we have really no idea how to make the body stop doing that. And in the case of multiple sclerosis, you have a body that's attacking the myelin sheath. But researchers aren't quite sure exactly what part of the myelin sheath is triggering the attack. Right, so they can't tailor drugs to stop the body from doing that. They just know it's going after myelin. Yeah. And the myelin can repair itself if there's damage. But the problem with Ms is this. They call it demyelinization. It's happening too fast, basically. Right. And sometimes it can be so severe that those nerve fibers are severed outright. Right, exactly. It's kind of like if you clear cut a forest and then before you let the forest come back, you start cutting down saplings, it's never going to come back. Same thing with the myelin chief. It is difficult to diagnose at first because the early signs are things like maybe a little dizzy, I may be fatigued, maybe my vision is blurry occasionally. And it kind of comes and goes to where people think, like, oh, maybe it's migraines, maybe it's something minor, because it is not the most common thing, I don't think. Doctors immediately are like, well, we need to get you in for a spinal tap. Right. And because it doesn't necessarily follow a strict set of symptoms, you can get those lesions anywhere. And since they're disrupting or affecting the nerve signals, they can present in all sorts of different ways. Right. So, yeah, doctors are frequently stumped when you present with Ms symptoms. Should we take a break and talk a little bit about the history and then get back into it? Oh, yeah, sure. All right, let's do it. These days, you use your personal info to do just about everything, especially when you're online. And guess what? With all that info just floating around out there, it can make the Internet a practical gold mine for identity thieves. And stealing your identity, it turns out, can be dangerously easy, which is not good. But now it's easy to protect yourself with LifeLock by Norton. Yeah. LifeLock monitors your info and alerts you to potential identity threats. And if you are a victim of identity theft, a dedicated USbased restoration specialist will work to fix it. Identity thefts have had it easy for far too long. Now, finally, it's your turn. Just remember, no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. But everyone can save up to 25% off their first year by going to LifeLock.com stuff. That's LifeLock.com stuff for 25% off your first year. LifeLock identity theft protection starts here. What if you were a global energy company with operations in Scotland, technologists in India, and customers, all on different systems? You need to pull it together. So you call in IBM and Red Hat to create an open hybrid cloud platform. Now, data is available anywhere, securely, and your digital transformation is helping find new ways to unlock energy around the world. Let's create a hybrid cloud that can change in industry. IBM, let's create learn more@ibm.com. So, historically, Ms, although it is new on the described disease front, obviously it's been around for a long time and people just didn't know what the heck was going on. Yeah, there's a saint that had it, they think, back in the Middle Ages, Saint Liduna, who is Dutch, and because she was Dutch, she was ice skating once back in the 14th, the 15th century. Yes. 1430s. She was ice skating and she fell. And after she fell, she developed excruciating pain, headaches, trouble walking, paralysis. And apparently there will be periods where she didn't have these symptoms and then they would come back and it would get worse, and then she would not have them again. Which are hallmarks of multiple sclerosis, as we'll see. Yeah. These attacks are flare ups followed by periods of remission. Yeah, that's a specific type of Ms. Well, yeah, which we'll get to that. But King George III apparently had a grandson who had a very extensive diary about his health until he died in 1848 and most people think like, he clearly had Ms and I believe that a couple of decades after that that a doctor, Jeanmartin Shaquille, became the first person at least that got credit with describing the disease itself. Identifying it and describing it. He's known as the father of modern neurology. He's popped up in some of our other stuff, too. He sounded familiar. Yeah, because he had a woman, a patient that had these symptoms. She eventually died. He dissected her brain, discovered these lesions and called it scleros on plac. Nice. French nice. And then the myland was discovered after that. But they didn't put two and two together at the time with the island, but it was discovered after that. Right. So the plaques and the effect on the myelin was really first discovered or demonstrated by Scottish doctor James Dawson who, thanks to better microscopes than previous researchers that had he could see these lines of communication between nerve cells and brain cells are basically being worn down to nothing and in some cases broken. And this is the basis of Ms. I'm james Dawson, goodnight. Yeah. We should do one on the microscope. Sure. Because it seems like time and time again we've had like just literally because being able to see things smaller has gotten more advanced every time that has taken a leap forward. Medical science has. Oh, sure. It's really interesting. Plus, we'll get to say Anton Von Leevinhook a bunch. Yeah, we've talked about him before. Right. Yeah. So Dawson described an inflammation but they thought it was like a virus or a toxin running through the bloodstream at the time. They did for a long time, actually. Well, yeah, and ironically, in the 30s there were lab mice going, hey, it's autoimmune. Right. And doctors were like, oh, don't listen to the lab results from the silly mice. No, it's clearly a blood toxin that's doing that. Yeah. So they sort of were not looking at the evidence right in front of their faces for a little while until the 1940s when I think at Columbia University they found that these weird protein byproducts in their cerebrospinal fluid and that was 1947 and that's kind of when the doors really opened and they said. Oh. I think we know what's going on and I think we know how we can test for this. Right. That established one of the big tests for Ms which is they're looking for so they go do a spinal tap, right. Which is where they draw a sample of cerebrospinal fluid from between your vertebrae. And when they're testing for Ms they're looking for high levels of IgG immunoglobin g antibodies and something called ogleoclonal bands which are another type of protein that are immunoglobins. And then they're also looking for these protein byproducts that are the result of myelin being broken down in the cerebrospinal fluid which is not supposed to happen. So when they find all this stuff, they can say this is probably multiple sclerosis. And since the 40s, they've had that test, and then starting in about the 80s or 90s, they also introduced MRI. And when you compare those two things together and they both suggest Ms, you've got a pretty good Ms diagnosis. Yeah, but like I said, it's a slow process. I remember Billy. It took a while until they finally landed on Ms for him, and that just kind of seems to be the way it goes. What were his initial symptoms, do you remember? He was a college roommate, and he ended up moving to the Billy. He was a very unique guy. He lived life to the fullest and did not really follow the rules of modern man. Where did he move? He kind of dropped out. He went to Boone, North Carolina. Oh, nice. Which is a great place to drop out sure. And live in a one room shacklike cabin in the middle of the woods. It's a great place to do that with a toilet just sort of in the room. A toilet or a bucket? No, it was a toilet. Okay. It had running water and electricity. Okay. But it was a one room thing, and I went up there a few times and stayed with them. But we would, like, drink whiskey and shoot guns, cross streams on the toilet in the middle of the room, probably. So, like, ghostbusters. So Billy kind of dropped out, and this was before Ms. He just did that. He was like a river guide, a whitewater river guide. Oh, cool. And live the life that those dudes live, which is to say, not being responsible for a lot and kind of spending a lot of time on the river. Yeah, spend a lot of time on the river and hanging out. So he dropped out and didn't have a phone. This is pre cell phone, so we weren't in the best touch. This is when I was post college living in New Jersey. So the memories of his exact early diagnosis are a little foggy, but I think I remember, like, fogginess and dizziness kind of being his first warning signs. Got you. But he wasn't the kind of like, oh, well, I need to run right out to the doctor and see what's going on. Not the river guide way. No, and it certainly wasn't the Billy way. So he didn't do himself any favors in the early years, and then when he finally did find out, he didn't do himself any favors because he didn't take care of himself, and he didn't rehab and take his medication like he should have and sort of fell down into a spiral of alcohol and drug abuse, which did not help. They say if you get a diagnosis, you want to live as clean as you can and work out and be as physical as you can and really try and take care of your body. To stave off these physical symptoms, and he didn't give any of that stuff. And plus, the early thing is a really big part of it, too, because what's happening is the myelin sheets around your entire central nervous system are subject to attack. And so if you can catch this early, you can kind of stave off some of those successive attacks where if you just ignore it or don't pay attention to it, it will just get worse and worse and worse. It's what's called a devastating progressive disease. Yes. And a lot of people keep it a secret at first because some of the physical side effects can be embarrassing. I know that this article mentioned Annette Funicello waited for years to come out, former Disney mouseketeer. And she didn't come out until, I think there were reports that she was an alcoholic because they see her stumbling around right. And it can be confused with things like that publicly. And then she said, actually, tabloids, I have Ms. Yeah. How bad do you feel? And we're like oh, sorry. The same with Richard Pryor. He kept his Ms diagnosis a secret for a little while. Yeah, I remember everybody's like, Richard Pryor's got tremors because he used to free based now turned out Ms. Yeah, totally. Mohammed Ali didn't have Ms. But I remember people, when Ali's condition got worse were like, oh, yeah, that's what happens with boxing. Well, I think they might be right about that one. Was his boxing. Yeah. I think he had brain plaques from too many from CTE. Okay. For some reason, I thought I mean, I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that's why he had Parkinson's. I think it was brought on by all the punches he took, I think. Yeah. I didn't research any of this, so I'm speaking off the cuff. Same here. All right. It's what we do. Well, at any rate, people can kind of keep it a secret for a little while because diagnosis can be scary at first when you get diagnosed with Ms because of the unpredictability. And you sort of have to I remember with Billy, they were kind of like, we got to kind of see how this goes before we know what kind you have. Right. Which is fairly primitive as far as medicine goes. Chuck, this article has four kinds. What I saw is that it's been pared down to basically two. Yeah. Yeah. Our article says that there's progressive relapsing, relapsing, remitting. There is primary progressive and then secondary progressive. And basically what I saw is that there's an umbrella group called Remitting, or relapsing multiple sclerosis RMS. And then there's another kind that is sorry, it's relapsing multiple sclerosis. Then the other kind is called primary progressive. Right. And with relapsing Ms, you have Ms symptoms. You have basically what amounts to an attack right. Where your symptoms come on, and then they subside after a while. And during the time that they subside, you're in what's called remission right? Yeah. And then they come on again. So you're in relapse phase, but during those two times, your disease is not getting worse. Right. It's not progressing. Right. That's the relapsing type of multiple sclerosis. The other kind is primary progressive. And they used to call that one progressive relapsing. Yeah. And they kind of folded all those together, but the one that survived was primary progressive. That's basically like, your disease is getting worse pretty much constantly, and it might be happening fast, it might be happening slowly, but you have a disease progression that can be noted by the people in charge of taking care of you. But then doing that, you may have small periods where you don't have symptoms, so you've got a remission, or you have periods where they come on really strong and it gets really acute. So you have a relapse, but during this time, during a year or five years or ten years, your Ms is getting worse by the year. Yeah. Which that was what Billy had got you. That's what it sounds like. I have the impression that any kind of progressive type of most postclerosis is the worst of the two, because you have it, like, basically all the time, and it's getting worse as it goes along. Yeah. And his would come in fits and starts for the first period of years. And it was that classic thing, I think, where his flare ups would be, like, not so bad at one point, and then kind of calm down and then be really bad and then calm down. But the whole time, there was a progressive thing going on to where he was obviously worst case scenario, like, couldn't walk in a wheelchair, couldn't talk. Man, that poor guy. Yeah. Muscle spasticity is a big hallmark of kind of the worst kinds. And that's when your body is just not communicating anymore. Well, no, that myelin cheese is exposed, and so the electrical impulses are going haywire. So the muscles they're commanding are going haywire, too. Yeah. So, like I said, he walked with a cane for a little while, but eventually just had to go, lost tons of weight, eventually ended up in a wheelchair, and his body was almost constantly in a state of muscle tension. You know, the ironic part about that is it sounds like his immune system was super healthy, which is how it was able to stage those massive attacks on his poor myelin chief. Maybe because you'd think if you had a weakish immune system, your Ms wouldn't be quite as bad. Yeah, I guess I never thought about that. Yeah. It's really interesting. And it's super cruel to see. Like I said. The body turn on itself like that because Billy was very athletic. And he's a good singer. And it took away his ability to do all this stuff. And it got so bad where he would and it mentions it in this article about. Like. Even when you're eating. You have to be really careful because you can choke on your tongue or choke on food. When he would get cracked up and laugh at us, it would be good for him, but it would also be a little bit scary because his laugh would get out of control, such to where you had to worry about if he had taken a sip of water or something, you could choke on it. Yeah. Apparently that's one of the ways that people do die from complications of Ms is choking because they have swallowing problems. Yeah, I don't remember the exact literal cause of death at the end, but it just ravaged his body, basically. So the other ones I saw were that your lung function due to weaken muscle activity is one of the other main ways, like an infection from a sore due to immobility. If not treated correctly, those things can lead to, say, like, a blood infection, and you can die from sepsis. And then, sadly, suicide is another leading cause of death among people who have Ms. Yeah, something like 6% to 14% of people with Ms commit suicide. And one of the reasons why that's much higher than the population at large is because one of the comorbidities of multiple sclerosis is depression. Yeah, for sure. And it's apparently, from what I saw in my research, one of those things that's not widely recognized and therefore not widely treated enough as far as Ms goes, that it's apparently a big problem with it. And it can come from just being depressed that you have Ms because, again, this strikes you in the prime of your life. So you think about all the stuff you're missing out on because you have debilitating Ms or just the myelin sheath coding regions of your brain. If you get lesions in the parts of your brain that regulate your mood, the physiology of your brain can lead to depression. Because of the changes there? Well, yeah, I mean, it does originate in the central nervous system, but it can, in some cases affect, like, your memory, your speech, your problem solving, and your higher brain function. I think it says in here, like five to 10% have severe impairment of higher brain function. Of course, depression is going to go along with that. So we should say that for the most part, from what I saw, the vast majority of patients with multiple sclerosis don't die from it. They don't suffer major cognitive impairment as a result of it, and a lot of them don't even exhibit major symptoms for the most part. Yeah, I don't want to freak people out with Billy's story because he had the worst case scenario. Right, but the diagnosis doesn't mean you're headed toward that. No, I just wanted to make sure that we were saying that. I don't want to scare anybody, but we got to get information out there. Right? Because if there's one thing that would be really great if we could do with this episode is if there's somebody out there right now who is starting to have migraines or tingling in their arm that they'll go to the doctor and catch it early. Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about treatment and stuff after a break, huh? Yes. Okay. These days, you use your personal info to do just about everything, especially when you're online. And guess what? With all that info just floating around out there, it can make the Internet a practical gold mine for identity thieves. And stealing your identity, it turns out, can be dangerously easy, which is not good. But now it's easy to protect yourself with LifeLock by Norton. Yes. LifeLock monitors your info and alerts you to potential identity threats. And if you are a victim of identity theft, a dedicated US based restoration specialist will work to fix it. Identity thefts have had it easy for far too long. Now, finally, it's your turn. Just remember, no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. But everyone can save up to 25% off their first year by going to LifeLock. comStuff that's LifeLock.com stuff for 25% off your first year. 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Yeah, and there's a lot of ways out there to actually treat the symptoms that are drug based and non drug based. But those disease modifying agents are the ones that actually alter the course of the multiple sclerosis. But like you said, they don't actually cure it. Although it is possible that there is a cure for it out right now. But it's new enough. It was just started in the late ninety s, and it's so not so radical that it just hasn't been proven as a cure, but it's kind of looking like it might be. Yeah. Should we go ahead and talk about that? Yeah. So it's based on stem cells. Yeah. I mean, basically what they're doing is completely replacing your immune system. Right. It's nuts. So back in the doctors. From Ottawa. What province is Ottawa in? Do you remember The Ontario? Let's just say Ottawa, Canada. Like Atlanta, USA. These doctors, Mark Friedman and Henry Atkins, they had this idea of basically reducing your immune system to nothing. So that when they managed to keep you alive, if they managed to keep you alive, when they restarted your immune system again by reintroducing some of your stem cells, your hemiopoetic I want to say stem cells. Yeah, your own, right. That it would build your immune system up again. And then they could watch the immune system restart Ms, and they'd be able to watch the disease progression from square one. But as one of them said in an interview, they failed miserably. But it's great that they did, because what they found was that when they devastated the immune system, brought it to zero, wiped it out, and then reintroduced your blood stem cells to the patient again, the Ms didn't come back in. Most of the people they tried this on yeah. 86% remained relapse free for three years after three years and counting, and almost 91% showed no sign of progression of the disease, which is remarkable. And then in that original, I think, 1999 study that Friedman and Atkins carried out, something like 23 of the 24, the disease was stopped in its tracks. And apparently these people had like a pretty bad case of Ms. It wasn't a lightweight case of Ms. Yeah. There's something called the Expanded Disability Status Scale, which basically kind of ranks how bad they are in terms of walking, dexterity, cognition, and they all had to rate between a three and a 5.5 on that scale, which is fairly severe. Right. 23 out of 24 in the original study, and I think, like you said, 67% in later studies, the disease just stopped. It did not get any worse, even though these were progressive cases of Ms. And in something like six of the 24, the disease was walked back. So, like the permanent damage, apparently there's a rule of thumb among people with multiple sclerosis or doctors that if you have a symptom that doesn't get better or go away after a year, you can consider it permanent damage. That permanent damage was actually reversed in six of the 24 patients by this incredibly radical procedure that seems to work. Yes. One of the doctors was like, no one likes using the C word. And he was like, But I'm going to go ahead and say it. Like these people are cured. Yeah. Some of these people have been in remission for 14 years, and for all intents and purposes, that's cured. Yeah, it's amazing. It is. It's pretty great. But again, it's also a very risky procedure. What they're using, I think the most current incarnation, I think it's called halt Ms is the process, but it's based on those auto doctors discovery that you use five different kinds of chemotherapy to kill your immune system, to kill your immune system, man. And so obviously, you have to be kept in isolation, and everyone has to wear crazy biohazard suit around you, and they have you on antimicrobials, and it kills everything. And they are trying to fight off any infection. And anyone who's ever stayed in the hospital knows the best place to get an infection is a hospital. So it's extraordinarily dangerous. But if you can survive and if you have a pretty bad case of Ms, I'm guessing you'd be willing to try this. It can cure you. Yeah, Billy would have tried this in a second. I guarantee it. Yeah. They had 24 volunteers initially between 2006 and 2010 for the first study, I think oh, no, this was in Denver. So I guess are they doing follow up research? Yeah, this is a different so the one that you're talking about, that's the Halt study. Right. I'm not sure exactly what Friedman and Atkins called their technique, but as far as I know, they're the pioneers of wiping out your immune system and then replacing it to get rid of Ms. Yeah. So I think I might have mixed together some of the stats for these two studies, but let's just say they're both very promising. Yeah. Who knows? I don't know the procedure. I know we've talked about doing shows on medical testing and stuff, and the procedure like, the stepping stones from here to, like, all right, now, when is this going to be a thing? But it's so kind of dangerous and fraught with complications. I don't know if this can be super widespread. From what I'm seeing in the research, though, it has such positive backing, I think, across the spectrum that I think people are gung ho about it. People should be able to decide if they want to take that risk. Like, Billy was certainly in a position where he's like, it's not going to get any worse for me. Right? Yeah. Like, I'm willing to take this chance and maybe die. Right. It's basically, I guess, what these volunteers are saying to make my life better. Sure. Yeah. I think one of the things that's probably saying in most people, like, that's way is the cost associated, because supposedly there's really just stupid loopholes that you have regarding stem cell therapies. Right. Of course. Like the article I sent you talked about a guy named Dave Becksfield, and he was accepted to the study willing to take the risks, and his insurance company was like, yeah, that's great. It's a stem cell study, but we only cover stem cells that come from donors, and this study has stem cells that come from you, so you're going to have to pay the $200,000 yourself. And he did this guy got together, he scraped together, like, 186 grand, which is what it costs to carry out this trial for him, specifically. And I guess afterward, he went after his insurance company and got not only that money back, but, like, another $200,000 or something in interest. Wow. And he's cured, so boom, I should say. And he's C worded. There are some other diseases that are sort of like Ms, and there is debate in the medical community whether or not they want to actually classify them. There's something called clinically isolated syndrome, which means you can have an attack or a flare up or an episode from this demonization, but it's just like one lesion. And sometimes you might develop Ms, but not always. Sometimes it's just CID. Yeah, I thought that was weird. To me, it just kind of suggests how incomplete and understanding science has of Ms. Well, yeah. And like I said, some people say, well, you shouldn't even call this Ms. And some people say, no, it's like maybe the mildest form you can get. Right. What else? There's something called Marburg Ms Shielders Diffuse Sclerosis, baylo Concentric Sclerosis, and Debbie's disease that are all sort of in that range of what's called idiopathic inflammatory demyelinating diseases. Yeah. And children can get it, too, even though it's pretty rare. Yeah. 8000 cases in the US. And remember, there's like 400,000 of Ms out of pediatric multiple sclerosis. There's 8000 of them, which is I mean, talk about prime of life disease. Yeah. And I think it's even harder to diagnose in kids because that's certainly not something they're looking for. Right. And the drugs that they're using, we don't know what effects are going to have on kids or worse than the disease. Right. Because we said that there's some disease altering drugs. There's a new one called Oak Creevis that is pending approval from the FDA, but it looks like it's going to go through, which is, I think, the first disease modifying agent that is shown to treat both progressive and relapsing forms of multiple sclerosis. And it goes after the immune system. I think it tries to suppress your B cells in the immune system. So there's plenty of treatments that go after the disease, but there's also a lot of treatments that treat symptoms. Right. And one of the ones that are used are antidepressants and anticonvulsants. Yeah. And so there's a lot of questions, like, should we be giving those to kids even though they have Ms? Right. What's the longterm effect of giving antidepressants to a child whose brain chemistry is still in the beginning stages of development? Yeah. I mean, drugs can be wonderful, but there's not a drug you can take that doesn't have some sort of other effect. Sure. And the benefits outweighing the side effects. Like, you got to take all this into consideration for anything. One of the other things I saw about antidepressants, Chuck, was they have figured out that they can use it to treat chronic pain and one of the outcroppings from Ms. So, again, Ms is like your body going haywire in really unique ways for each person with multiple sclerosis. So it kind of in a way provides researchers ways to whenever the body does something it's not supposed to, it's a great place for researchers to go study the normal processes of the body. And one of the things they figured out is that in treating chronic pain with multiple sclerosis, you can use antidepressants. And the reason why is because apparently chronic pain and depression use a lot of the same neuropathways and create a lot of the same changes to the plasticity of the brain as one another. Interesting. And that chronic pain and depression may be in a lot of ways more related, at least neurologically, than chronic pain and acute pain, which seem to be kind of different animals. Wow. Yeah. Fascinating. I think so too. Yeah. You got anything else? Yeah, I think I would just advise anyone, and it's not just Ms, but I wasn't the friend to Billy that I should have been toward the end, and it's fraught with regret. And part of that is because life gets in the way, and part of it is just not the easiest thing to face as a friend. And I think what I did was I let myself off the hook too easily for that stuff, which I'd feel really crappy about now. Yeah, try to overcome that if you have something like this going on. That's good advice, man. That's what I will say. I swear I wasn't going to do this. Are you missing? Yeah. It was very hard and I wasn't the friend I should have been. And my friend Eddie was great and stood by Billy, and I went and saw him at the end of the hospital. But I had a lot of regret about the final years and not going to see them. You should have it's understandable, man. Yeah. I think you just did some sort of absolution, though. Well, we'll see. Well, if you want to know more about multiple sclerosis, you could type those words into the search bar@housedeforks.com and it will bring up this article. And since I said that and Chuck is missing, it's time for listener mail. That means it's Wednesday. This is on empathy a little bit too. Hi, guys. Listening to empathy right now. I had to pause to say thank you. When you were talking about the study relating to autism and alexithymia, you listed four groups studied as individuals with autism and alexithemia. Individuals with autism without alexithymia, individuals with alexithymia, but not autism, and then people who didn't have either one. Growing up as a sister of a guy with autism, I can tell you how many times I've heard people describe individuals without autism as normal people. It's such a lazy way to describe a group who doesn't exhibit just one of a multitude of other characteristics, and frankly, it's demeaning and rude. So thank you for not being those guys. You're always careful in your wording. So I shouldn't be surprised that having 30 years plus experience hearing at normal people conditioned me to brace myself when he started the list. Inclusive language for the win. Keep up the great work that is from megan isgen in Indianapolis and she said PS, Indianapolis is no Seattle, but maybe come to the Circle city sometime. Nice upspeak at the end. And I think we have been batting around the idea of an Indianapolis show. It's possible. Yeah, hopefully that will happen. Thanks a lot, Megan. That was very nice of you. We appreciate the kudos and if you want to get in touch with us, like Megan and tell us to come to your city, you can tweet to us. We're at Sisk podcast. Or JoshM Clark, you can hang out with us on Facebook. Comsteffynow or facebook.com. Charlesw Chuck Bryant, you can send us an email of stuffpodcast@howstupworks.com and as always, join us at our home on the web stuffyhadow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetofworks.com. Hey everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime four days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. There's a perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music you can access new episodes early. Download the app today. You know you're a pet mom when you plan your vacation around your pet. At Halo, we get it because we're pet moms too. We make natural, high quality pet food that's rooted in science. It's the world's best food for the world's best kids. Learn more@halopets.com." | |
Our cats episode - right here, right meow | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/our-cats-episode-right-here-right-meow | Cats are the most popular pet in the United States, despite the fact that we've only been keeping them indoors for 50-60 years. Learn about more cat facts in today's episode. | Cats are the most popular pet in the United States, despite the fact that we've only been keeping them indoors for 50-60 years. Learn about more cat facts in today's episode. | Tue, 05 Apr 2016 20:30:11 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2016, tm_mon=4, tm_mday=5, tm_hour=20, tm_min=30, tm_sec=11, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=96, tm_isdst=0) | 53859567 | audio/mpeg | "This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Start building your website today@squarespace.com. Enter code stuff at checkout and you will get 10% off Squarespace. Set your website apart. Tour. Tour. Tour. Tour. Live. Live shows. Live shows. It's baseball season. Yeah, that's right. It is. That means we're going on tour, right, Josh? Seattle and Portland are sold out. I know. We'll see you guys there. Denver, Colorado, you are very close to selling out. Yeah, Colorado. Denver is, like, right there, right? And then Houston houston is doing okay. It's respectable, but it's definitely denver was like, give us those tickets. Yeah. And I got to say, Houston, we really stuck our neck out for you after Dallas and Austin, we heard from a lot of Houstonites about how big your city is. So prove it. Oh, so they call throwing down the gauntlet, Chuck. And we have two more shows to announce. Is that correct, sir? That's right. We are doing night one and night two at the Bellhouse in New York City. That's right. In Brooklyn, New York. Bellhouse has been our home there for many years. Coming back home. Yeah. These are very special shows because they're smaller than places we've been playing, and we love it there, and I think it's going to be pretty great. Yeah. So that's June 29 and June 30, and tickets go on sale Friday. This Friday. That is correct. And we will have links at our Squarespace website. S-Y-S klove.com. Make sure you buy tickets to the correct night that you want to go. Oh, yeah. And it's going to be the same show both nights, right? Be the same show both nights. And now all I need are tickets from Lynn Manuel Miranda to go see Hamilton on Broadway. Oh, yeah, sure. Sign me up for those as well, please. It's a pretty tough ticket to get. If you're a listener, sir, you can come to our show. Yeah, totally. Even though it conflicts with the Hamilton performance. Skip it. Yeah, that's what I show. So, like we said, Skysklive.com powered by Squarespace, so you can find all the tour deeds. Yeah. We'll see you soon in Brooklyn. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles, W, Chuckbright and Jerry's over there. This is stuff you should know. The podcast. The annoying podcast, apparently. The what? The Annoying podcast. Cat meowing is annoying to you. Oh, it's like there's rusty nails in my blood vessels. You don't like cats, do you? No, I'm just kidding. No problem with cats. I think people are like, I hurt cats. Or conversely, people are like, I hurt dogs. I think those people are weird. Maybe not humans. Yeah. I mean, I get the preference. I have both, as you know and as everyone knows. Two dogs, two cats. Sure. And I'm going to be talking about my cats a lot. Lauren and the whiz the wizard. Yeah. Right. I call him the Whiz. It's my pet name for him. No, we call him the Wiz. Okay. Or wizard with an L. I haven't reached the point where he's comfortable with me calling him that. Oh, sure he is. Well, we have tons of nicknames, like everyone does for their pets. Right. I even made a list one time. You made a list of pet nicknames for our pets? Just so we had them all down. Do you have that on your refrigerator or something? No. You have a tattooed on your arm on the old hard drive, on the laptop. What were you drinking when you did this? Milk. By the way, let me just say, I now too, have tried the Crown Royal Northern Rye. What do you think it is? The bomb? It's good. It is very good. Yeah, mine's gone. Is it really? Yeah, mine is getting there. I'm not surprised. All right, let's get into this. If you don't like hearing cat stories for me, then this might not be the show for you. Yes. Are you ready? I'm ready. Cat is defined. So let's talk history with cats. That's where we usually like to start feeling good, feels normal. For a very long time, everybody thought Egypt was the culture, the group of humans that domesticated cats. Although if you've listened to our Animal Domestication episode, you probably had your mind blown a little bit, or your suspicions confirmed that cats are not technically domesticated animals. Yeah. They're technically a feral species still, but some of them will deign to hang out with humans. For the most part, though, they're not strictly a domesticated animal. That's just semantics, though, at this point. Right. What I'm saying is that everybody thought that the Egyptians were the first to domesticate cats. Yeah. We think that for good reasons, because Egyptians love their cats. They were worshipped, they were mummified. If you look at Egyptian artwork, there's cats all over the place. There's a cat deity named Bastard. Oh, really? Yeah, that was the cat headed deity. That'd be a great cat name. And apparently, like the cult. Oh, yeah. It really would be like modern cat name. Right. And speaking of modern cat names, we found out that the Egyptians may have been the first to really revere cats, but they were far from the first humans to live with cats. The Egyptians went back two, three, 4000 years, maybe 5000 tops. Okay. We found evidence that in the Fertile Crescent, something like twelve or so thousand years ago, when people first started touring around with agriculture, they started storing the grain that they harvested from agriculture. And the cat said, I like these piles of grain that are attracting rodents. I don't need to be a fierce wild animal anymore. I'm just going to hang out where these peeps are. Yeah. And they formed what can only be described as a symbiotic relationship with humans. Because humans all of a sudden are like these crazy cats are doing us a kindness, and so, in turn, maybe we should start feeding them. Was that a reference for to the trivia night? No. What was the kindness of group of remember the I think it might have been I can't remember, but it is or no business affairs. Business affairs. A kindness. I can't remember. I can't either. That's a fascinating topic, though. The groups of animals and their names. I'm sorry for interrupting you. Please interrupt me. So they said, hey, they're doing us a kindness. I'm going to start feeding them. Maybe they'll hang around more. And hey, maybe when we go on a ship, we got a lot of mice and rat problems on ships. Maybe we should put them on our ships, too. Right, because they're great mousers. And before you know it, cats were all over the world doing kindnesses to humans by way of killing rodents. But like you said, it was symbiotic, like we're the ones who piled up the grains in the first place. They owed us. That's true, but the point is that our history with cats goes back farther than just ancient Egypt. Absolutely. So, like I said, speaking of great cat names, you said bestat would be a good one. Agreed. But I found that all cats are descended from the African wildcat, it turns out. And the African wildcat is Felix sylvester Libika, which means Felix the Cat and Sylvester the Cat both were very appropriately named cats. Yeah, I wonder that. Well, I wonder if that's where they got it. Surely you think can't be that coincidental, Felix. I say for sure. Sylvester I might be sure about that, too. Yeah, I think you're right on the money. Boom. You should have looked it up. I bet you could find that out pretty easy. I'm so confident, I didn't even need to look it up. I'm not going to waste the finger motion. So they found cats and burial sites on Cyprus, which is an island, which means people brought them there. Cats didn't swim to Cypress. Cats hate swimming. For the most part, yes. And then, as you said, that Symbiotic relationship was carried on all the way into the New World. Because nothing much happened from the time of the Fertile Crescent until the New World. Yeah, like nothing. Right. But the cats made their way over, apparently as early as Columbus voyages to the Americas or the Caribbean, I should say. Supposedly the Kiddies road on the Mayflower and settle at Jamestown. Right. And there is a false remember we did a show on Isaac Newton? There is a false legend that he created the kitty door. Oh, it's not true, huh? It's not true because it was actually written about in The Canterbury Tales, specifically in The Miller's Tale, and there are actual images of 15th century doors in France with what they call catholes. It makes sense. You can have the flat, just cut a hole in that door so the cat can go in and out. And the reason why they thought about this so early when they started building doors, I'm guessing that they started building cat doors in those doors pretty quickly after that, because the idea of keeping a cat indoors only is extremely new. We're talking the last 60, 70 years, maybe. Prior to that, you had a cat that wandered freely inside or outside of the house or just stayed outside altogether. Yeah. And it took the invention of clay kitty litter refrigeration. So you can refrigerate meat more easily, so you have more surplus of meat that you could share with an indoor cat. Sure. And then spaining and Neutering apparently, were the three advancements that allowed cats to be kept indoors. That's right. Cats, believe it or not, worked for the United States Postal Service as late as the early 20th century. They were used as mousers, of course. Mousers. Mousers. Neither one mousers, lieutenant mousers. And then at one point, they said, you know what? We're going to actually hire cats in the form of giving these post offices an allotment for food. Right. And the cats immediately went on strike after union teaser for the next episode. But they were actually used by the USPS and technically paid in food. That's great. Yeah. In their warehouses, I guess. In their postal warehouses. So you mentioned the kitty litter being a big invention. It was invented by a man named Ed Low. I think he was Minnesota, but ended up in Michigan. Okay. And in 1947, his neighbor people use things like ashes and sand. Sawdust is big. Yeah. Sawdust old newspapers. Yeah. If you wanted to keep your cat inside. And his neighbor came by in 1947 and said, hey, my sand is frozen because I'm in Michigan. Yes. Cold. It has to be for your sand to freeze. Pretty cold. I guess. So he said, you know what? I got this full orders earth clay. Why don't you use that? And it works so well. He packaged it and sold it as kitty litter. That was the name brand kitty litter. Right. Originally it was kitty litter. Right, yeah. And it was just kiln dried clay. That was it. Right. Broken into small pieces. I think so. I mean, yeah. Fuller's Earth style. Okay. And he started giving it away at first, and you had to really educate the populace at this point. And not just the populace, the pet owner or pet store owner wants he apparently told one pet store, just give it away. When somebody comes in and they want kitty later, give them this for free. And apparently that little marketing technique worked very well. Same with the slinky. Yeah. What did they give away for free? No, there was some other like the inventor himself demonstrated on. That's what it was right. At Kfaoswartz, which is what edlo did. And pet store owner said, wait, you're saying I should keep my cat indoors where it can poop and pee. Yeah, put it in this box. But apparently they were already doing that somewhat because people were using sawdust and stuff or frozen sand. But it wasn't the norm, like you said. Right. And then spying. And Neutering, of course, is what you mentioned. If you've ever had a cat that goes into heat because you did not spay or neuter and that cat is an indoor cat, you're in for trouble. Oh, yeah. Your drapes are toast. Well, I mean, they're just going to be spraying, which we'll get to later. I have a story I wish I could tell in full for my college days, but I can't. But needless to say, I was a young, dumb college student and I wasn't educated on Spain and neutering and I had a cat going to heat. It's no fun. Okay. They are crazy and they're loud and they want nothing more than to get outside and have the sex. Oh, yeah. So we'll just stop the story there. Okay, boys at a good one. Do you know how many people are going to write in asking, like, just tell me. Just me. Right? I'm special. I won't judge you. So that is the long story. History of cats. Yes. And I talked to Holly from stuff you missed in history class. This is a good source for this self proclaimed crazy cat lady. Yeah, she and Tracy are very much both in the cats, and they did a show on the history of cats. Oh, nice. Which I bet is very much more in depth on what we discovered. I would certainly hope so. Go check that out. They did an eleven minute show on cats, on the history of cats. I'm sure it was very detailed, so I would suggest listening to that for even more insight. So let's talk cat anatomy. Right. When you look at a cat, usually think, well, it's basically the same thing as a dog. No, that's not true. There's a lot of differences between cats and dogs. Cats, for example, have about 244 bones. A lot of bones. 27 of them are in their tail, which is very lucky because cats use their tail to do amazing things like balance and to turn over when they're falling. Oh, is that what the tail helps with? It's part of it, yeah. Which is a legend that a cat always lands on its feet, supposedly. Which gave rise to the idea that a cat has nine lives. Right. But cats can also not land on their feet sometimes. How about we'll say this? Cats really want to land on their feet and try their hardest, too. And do most of the time. Yes, which is good. The tail also helps them get in and out of tight spaces. And the cat is notable for not having a collarbone. It's a detached clavicle. So when you see a cat walk, whether it's a puma or a kitty, cat. You see those shoulder blades moving really neat and rhythm with the legs and that's I think one of my favorite things about cats is that jaguar looks like your house cat. Yeah. Like, same behaviors. They do the same things. Well, if you go and look at an African wild cat, the last common ancestor of all house cats, all domestic cats, they look like a large tabby cat. Yeah. Same kind of coloring, same feature, same everything. So they clearly haven't diverged that much from their lineage. Yes. And also would probably be in big trouble on a safari, because when I look at those big cats, I think, man, you'd be that guy. If they would just let me in there to get them around the mouth and get a little scratch going. Yeah. They'd love me. You're the kind of guy that they find, like, dead and mauled in a zoo enclosure in the morning when they open up. I just wanted to pet it happens sometimes. What? People want to pet the animals so they go in yeah. Take drugs or get wasted and still hang out in zoos after hours. Like the guy who was killed by Tilicom, the orca yes, one of the guys who was killed by Tilica. Tilicom. He took off his clothes and tried to ride Tilicom, and that did not work out well. Silica said, Get off me, with great force. He said, Come here, you. Who thought we were going to talk about a killer whale in the cat episode? No, you never know. So back to cat anatomy. Chuckers, let's talk cat hair. Yes. Cats have four kinds of hair. Yeah. Most people probably thought you were going to say three or maybe even one or two. That's true. Downhair on AWN hair, guard hair, and the brisket, aka whiskers. Right. Which are kind of hair. Yes. So the down hair is the closest to their body, and it keeps them warm. And the next you have on, which is the middle coat, and it's kind of an insulating coat, then you have the guard hair, which is what you think everything is on a cat, what you see, and it protects the lower coats, it keeps it dry and all that stuff. And the vibrace, those are the whiskers. And they're actually just amazing feats of biology. Vibrasse. Cat whiskers are cats used in a sense movement and everything from the ground or a door jam or even changes in air pressure around them. They're extremely sensitive, touch, appendages, basically. Yeah. So you mentioned the air pressure that helps them navigate at night. So a cat can be running through your living room and come up on your couch, and literally, since the air coming around the couch and no, don't run into the couch like the dumb dog does. Right. Every day. Yeah, because dog has whiskers, too, but they're not feeding them the same information that the cat's whiskers are. Now, the whiskers do fall out and are replaced. You should never, ever, ever trim or cut or pull whiskers. No. And you should spank a child that does and let the cat watch maybe a timeout. Okay. They also indicate mood. If the cats whiskers are pulled back, it probably means they're upset or angry or they want to scrap. If they're just puffed out normally, that means they're pretty happy. And they're roughly the width of the cat's body. So the cats will use these. If you've ever seen a cat, like, let's say there's a cathole in your door or they want to go behind the couch, they'll stick their head in first and say, can I get through this with my big fat body? Right. Or my whiskers tingling. And the way that their fat bodies can get through, though, too, is because of that detached shoulders that you mentioned earlier, too. That's right. That's how they can basically go from horizontal to that's. When they angle them almost at a 90 degree angle to where they were standing or where their head is, they can go through some pretty tight spots. They can, yeah. And they can also get caught and wedged and trapped in tight spots sometimes. Yeah, which is no good. Wizard got out one time and got in the attic, and we couldn't find them, and it was very scary. And we finally looked in the attic, and it was in the summer, and he was kind of trapped and wedged in between, like this wood, and poor guy, the wall, and he was, like, painting, I'll bet, in the attic in the summer is not a place you want to be. He's very sweet when you're trapped. How long was he gone for? Not that long. I mean wait, don't answer that's a cliffhanger. We'll answer that right after these messages. So, Chuck? Yeah? How long was the wizard gone for? Seven days and seven nights. That's a long time. No, it was just a few hours, I think. But it was so hot that we felt like very bad parents. Yeah. I mean, he got into mischief. Well, yeah. He got somebody there dust tape into the fridge. Curiosity almost killed my cat. Jerry laughed at that. She's listening. Cat's paws. We're not done with anatomy, because cats paws are pretty remarkable. Unlike dogs, they can turn their paws. They can make little fists and flex right toes. Yeah. More than a dog can. And they are obviously great for climbing things and for self grooming, heat detection, temperature regulation, killing mice and moles and chipmunks and bringing them to the doorstep, saying, look what I did. Yeah. Check this out. I'm a good kiddie. I strangled it with my paws that are bendable. And the claws are obviously not always out. They are retracted back in, and they use them as needed. So you found some really interesting article from the Humane Society of the US on cat claws that I could almost not make it through. Oh, really? I was cringing so much. Yeah, it was really rough, man. So you said that the cat's claws are retractable, right. So the claws go back into the skin teeth, and they come out when they're ready for some action. And to declaw cat is not to just clip the claws, because just like a human's fingernails, they grow, which is one reason why cats scratch, which is to basically file down what amount to their fingernails, their claws. And the fact that they do this on the couch is what leads some people to get them declawed. So you can see this vicious cycle coming up, right? Yeah. Well, declawing a cat is way more than clipping its toenails. It's nothing like that. It's more akin to, as this article puts it, cutting off a human's fingers at the first knuckle. Yeah. The knuckle closest to the end of the finger. Yeah. We try not to get too opinionated, but I've always preached, don't declaw. I think it's cruel. The cats need their claws for a variety of reasons. There's no medical benefit to declawing a cat. It is purely for humans who don't want to take the time to train their cat to not scratch their couch. Yeah. And the Human Society makes the point that the average person can easily train their cat to scratch different places. They suggest things like, make sure your cat has a number of different scratching posts from different types of materials in different positions, like vertical and horizontal. Put them near the things that they scratch. Like if they scratch the arm of the couch, put a post near there. And cats respond to no, just like dogs do. Right. You tell a cat no, and then you rub some catnip on the scratching post, right, and they'll say, well, that's wonderful. It's what they say. They have the stuff going on. I think instead, the cat's not saying, well, that's wonderful. They're saying, you win this round. Right, and they're biting their time, is what they're really doing. There are these clear, sticky tapes you can put on your furniture that they don't like. And my experience has been you don't have to leave that stuff there forever. Once they realize, I don't like the feel of that on the couch, I'll just move on into the scratching post and then you can eventually peel that stuff off. Sure. It does look kind of gross after a little while. I can imagine with a cat in the house, you can also hide behind your drapes with an air horn and wait for your cat to come scratch and hear them. They'll pick up on that real quick. You want to start young, both trimming your cat's nails and with the trying to get them to not claw it stuff, the earlier you start, the better they're going to be. And it really doesn't take that much effort if the cat doesn't have its claws. It can lead to a lot of problems. Decline can make their paws swell and stay swollen. It takes away their ability to jump on something. So they could try and jump up on something and not be able to grab and then fall back down. Yeah. And they may also turn into biters because they don't have the ability to call anymore. So they may be like, well, I use my teeth instead, which is way worse. Yeah. And supposedly also, a lot of reason that some people have their cats declawed is not just for their furniture sake, but because they're worried about things like cat scratch fever, because Ted Nugent preached against right. But the idea that you can catch an infection from a cat's scratch is far less likely than a cat's bite dealing with cat's feces or getting bitten by a flea that isn't infected, that is near your cat. So being scratched by a cat, declawing a cat to prevent infection is actually a terrible idea as well. Yeah. And if you have indoor outdoor cats and you declaw them, that's just, like, the worst possible scenario, because then they literally have no defense. Right. In the outside world, they're toast. So are we clear enough? Don't delay your cats. In fact, many countries abandoned. Yeah. It's such a bad thing to do. Not judging you. Some people don't know yet, so we're trying to educate you. So you brought up indoor and outdoor cats. Here's another soapbox for you to stand on, Chuck. Let me just slide it over. There is a great debate on whether cats should be indoor cats or outdoor cats. And like we said, for almost all of domestic house cats history, they were not indeed house cats. They were not strictly indoor cats. Just didn't really exist very much, and they were allowed to come in and out, or they were strictly outdoor cats. It's a fairly recent change, but there's a lot of the animal rights group say, no, you should keep your cats indoors. It's the safest place for your cat. The American Bird Conservancy says that you would be also saving the lives of countless small animals. The American Bird Conservancy estimates that in the US. Alone, cats kill hundreds of millions of birds and more than a billion small mammals, like rabbits, squirrels, and chipmunks every year. Isn't that crazy? That's, like, well beyond the circle of life. Yes. You know, so there's a lot of people who say, yes, you should keep your cat indoors. And then the other side says, don't be stupid. These are outdoor animals. You should not confine them indoors. It's unnatural. Well, yeah. The thing I most often hear is, my cat loves it outside. Which is true. Your cat does love it outside. But for me, you're the owner. It's up to you. Like, an indoor cat can live 15, 1720 years if you have a strictly outdoor cat. They say the life expectancy can be as little as two to five years. It's definitely like a live fast, die young scenario for the outdoor cats. Sure, they can get it. How many times have you walked down the street or driven down the road and seen a squash cat that was somebody's house cat? Far less than a squash dog or even a dog, really. Yeah. Now that I think about it, I very rarely have seen a dead cat on the side of the road. Well, how about this? How many times have you seen a cat cross a road successfully? Probably a lot, because cats are pretty smart. They're not like squirrels. Right? Like a squirrel run into the middle of the road, it will be a 90% across the road and it will turn back, double back and double back. Be like, oh, the tire missed me. Let me go. Make it easier for it. Yeah, cats are pretty good at it, but your cat shouldn't have to be good at crossing a street with cars. Well, then you get into the idea of humans fragmenting natural habitats and all that kind of stuff. Because if you really look at it, chuck, especially with cats, if you consider the idea that they are not fully domesticated animals and that we have basically shuffled them around the world, we basically take an African wildcards and be like, hey, come with us. We're going to the New world. Hey, come with us. We're going to go found Rome. Hey, come with us. We want you to be one of our deities here in ancient Egypt. And the cats went along with it, but didn't actually evolve to become a domesticated species, then we have just taken wildlife and shuffled it into our own human life. I don't know, I kind of see like the indoor outdoor people. Sure I see their argument. Yeah. Well, if you do the indoor outdoor thing, bring them in at night, don't have them declawed, like I said, because you're just like throwing them into a gun fight without a gun. But you shouldn't have any cat declawed the Humane Society's position at all. I don't think you should. Personally, I don't think you should have cats outdoors, but I'm not going to get all up in arms about that because I get that cats do love being outside. One thing you can do, though, if you do have an indoor cat is build some sort of enclosure for them that is outside or like let them hang out on a screen and porch or someplace. They're not going to get actually outside of your house in, but they're still able to enjoy the out of doors. Yeah, we go out on my deck and they love it. They don't want to come in. And I know we'll hear from people that say, I had an outdoor cat that lived to be 17. You got super lucky. That's great. Yeah. There's probably folk songs about that cat among cats. And they recommend if you do want to keep your cat indoors, start them young, because once that cat gets the taste for the outside, it's really hard to get them to be indoor cats for sure after that. Yeah. I'm not too judgy in this, I don't think so. I just think if your cat is going to live many years longer inside, then keep them inside. But if you are going to keep your cat inside, there are some things that you want to do for your cat. For one, an indoor cat's life is extraordinarily sedentary, especially compared to an outdoor cat's life. Right. Oh, it's great. They just lay around and they get fat and happy. But the problem is they can get, like, really fat. Sure. And that can lead to all sorts of problems. The same kind of problems that humans get when they overeat. Yeah. So one of the first things you want to make sure you do when you have a strictly indoor cat is to feed it a proper diet. And cats, unlike dogs, did not really evolve to become omnivores. Instead, they are straight up meat eaters still. So you want to feed them like, a high protein diet, and you don't want to leave that food out all day because that cat will be like, I'll just eat and eat and eat because I'm bored. Yeah, that depends on the cat, too. We leave our food out, the dry food, and they get the good stuff, the wet food. Right. Although the thinking now is they should eat more wet food than dry food. Yes. Supposedly, that's what I found. Yeah. But my cats are 13, and I guess we've been doing it wrong all these years. But they can't jump up on the counter now where the food is. Because they're too fat? No, because they're 13. Oh, that's sad. Do you lift them up there? Well, they asked for a ride. You walk through the kitchen, they'll go, so I'll give them a ride up there and they'll eat some point to where they want to go. He might as well. It's funny, both of my cats, like Lauren especially, he's a man coon, and he will literally talk to you. You yell around and he'll meow at you. You say, what are you doing? He'll go, Meow? You have a good day. He'll go, Meow? That's awesome. Where his? Wizard is not super chatty. He's a short haired tabby, and he's not as nearly as chatty. I got you. And both I found on the streets of Los Angeles Wizard was one was a blood and one was a crypt. And you brought them together. Wizard was in Emily's neighborhood. When we were just dating, I went over to Emily's house and there was this couple, good natured, I think, but they had this kitten. They were trying to force it in shoebox, and it was just screaming. I was like, what are you doing? They're like, this cat has been hanging out here for a couple of weeks, so we're trying to get it in this box so we can bring it inside. Now. I was like, Give me the cat. And then you ran off with the cat? I did. I ran into Emily's house and said, we got a cat. Awesome. Which one was that? That's the wizard. And he was first? No, lauren was actually first. Lauren lived. This is kind of a neat story. I came home from a night shoot as a PA at 07:00, a.m. Exhausted, laid down to sleep, and I heard this incessant mewing of a kitten outside. I was like, all right, I got to go check this out. In my dumpster was a four week old kitten. It looked like it had been shaved on the back, but I guess it was just maybe that topcoat had fallen off because he was black. But the undercoat was this weird short gray, and he looked terrible. So I was like, I guess I got a cat. Took him to the vet, got him cleaned up, and as I was checking out Tim Curry A Rocky Horror Picture Show what was it? The vet did not expect him to make an appearance. No. Well, that's kind of the fun thing about La. Is you'll see celebrities at weird, just normal places like the vet. So he was checking out. I went to go write a check and needed both hands and said, Mr. Curry, would you hold my cat? Would you sign my cat? He probably would have, sure. But he held him and he asked what his name was. I said, Lauren, and because he looks so weird and had that silver back, and he went, Lauren, you look like a baboon. And he said that to the cat and said he had very dramatic ears. And then he gave me Lauren back, and it was a wonderful experience. Sure. He was blessed by Tim Curry, and eventually Leroy's hair grew out normal and he was just a big black MangoON. And they've been my buddies ever since. They didn't get along, though, and they still don't, which is weird with cats. I guess people can have different experiences with grown cats, but my experience has been once they're of a certain age, it's hard to throw them in the same house together and have them be best buddies. Sure. They still they coexist. They coexist. They have their own areas on their car. They do kind of fight. Every now and then we'll hear them going at it, but when food time comes, they eat like inches from each other. Or if there's a sunspot in the dining room, they'll lay next to each other. They've worked it out over the years, sure. But yeah, it's pretty interesting. They're not like dogs. Dogs either. I think they get along right away. Unless you have a dog that's aggressive. Right. Very fascinating. Yeah. There's nowhere to go but down after that story. So let's take a break. The greed. So, Chuck, one of the things that cats are most famous for is their behavior. Right. There's just certain things cats do that no other animal does. Very quirky. So, for example, what's called making biscuits or kneading dough. It's the best. So, what is that? Well, if maybe you're laying on your couch and your cat jumps up on your belly and then just starts flexing its paws, pushing their paws in and out left, right, left, right. As if they were kneading dough or making biscuits, sometimes they keep their claws in for this. Sometimes they flex them into your skin a little bit, which, to me doesn't hurt. I think it feels quite nice. True. And there are a bunch of theories on why they do this. But I think the leading one is that when you see little kittens, they kind of need on Mama's belly to get more theoretically, to prime the pump a little bit to get more milk flow. Yeah. But you should not feed cat's milk, we should mention. No, because you're feeding a cow's milk and they are not capable of digesting cow's milk. It's actually really bad for them. I wonder where that came from. I don't know. Tom and Jerry definitely did not help any cats because Tom was crazy for that stuff. Yeah. In a variety of ways that didn't help cats. That cartoon. But yeah, that's the predominant theory, that they're basically harkening back to a happy childhood. Yeah. And they're also releasing they have scent glands in their paws. So when they're scratching or kneading making biscuits, they're releasing that scent as they're kind of claiming their territory. Right. They're marking whatever that is, whether it's their human belly. There's a really cute video in an article you sent me that has, like, a cat needing a dog to sleep on its side and the cat is sitting there, like, kneading its shoulders and neck. Pretty good stuff. So the cat's saying, this dog is my dog. Yeah. That's my dog. Yeah. And there's other ways that cats also mark their territory. Their people using scent glands too. It's not just in their claws. They're also on their faces. Which is one reason why cats kind of bump faces with you. Yeah. We call it the head butt. Lauren head butts a lot. Wizard doesn't head butt as much. But if you're scratching a cat with your finger, a lot of times they'll make sure that finger gets at the corner of their mouth. We have scent glands there in the paws. And they eat that stuff up. They love it. They are they're marking you. And then they're also taking in any weird sense you may have gotten, too. Which is why some people will be like, your cat knows when you've been holding another cat and they're not happy about it because they can smell that other cat because that cat was like, Here you go, sucker. I just marked you. It's going to take your cat off. This is my person now. Cats can also spray. It is very pungent. It's not just urine, although it can be, but most of the time it's urine mixed with a fatty material, viscous fatty material that's really musky and stinky. If you get your cat fixed, which you should spay a neuter as early as possible, but that will take care of about 90% of spray issues. Right. If you don't fix your cat, you're just asking for it. Yeah. They will pay you back. Yeah. In spray. Not in spades, but in spray. All right. And what they'll do is sometimes, if it's a horizontal surface, they kind of just pee. If it's a vertical surface, they'll spray. They'll back that thing up and you'll see the tail quiver and kaboom. Kaboom is right. But Lauren and other cats, I think, even after you've had them fixed, will mimic the spray. Like, he'll go by the couch and back up to it and quiver his tail, but nothing comes out. Oh, he's just psyched you out. You're like, no. He's like, I'm just kidding. And a lot of times it's stress. A lot of times it is to mark their territory. And sometimes it's mail saying, like, hey, smell this. Check me out. Get a load of this. And sometimes it's in revenge. Like, if your cat's not happy, if the litter box said, remember my story when I didn't put litter in there? Oh, yeah. Lauren started peeing everywhere, man. Just goes off like a paint bomb and a bag of bank robbery money. Cats can drool. I had one very drooly cat as a kid. Yeah, but supposedly that's like a really bad sign if your cat drools a lot. Well, it can signify a medical issue. Right. So if your cat doesn't normally drool and starts drooling, you should get it checked out. But you can just have a drooly cat as well if you're working that scent. Land. This cat scooter I had was along here, and Lauren drills a little bit would just drool like crazy. Really? Yeah. So if it is a problem, it usually indicates something like some sort of oral disease or they're having trouble swallowing, which is not good, or they might have motion sickness. Oh, interesting. And panting is not good in your cat. If you see a dog panting, your dog's panting. But if a cat is doing it, it is really stressed out. Yeah. That's like when wizard was panting in the attic. It's disturbing to see a cat pants. Right. Funny enough, that cat scooter ran away from my house. We had outdoor cats growing up. We didn't do the right thing when I was a kid in my family. No, we didn't go to the vet much. It was kind of like country style. Sure. Like you just had animals, they got sick and died. They got sick and died, so all the way. But I was very much educated as I got older on proper pet care. Right. And you take your cat to the vet once or twice a year to get checkups. Yeah, exactly. Just like you do a dog. But Scooter ran away from home and I found that cat, like, three years later, 5 miles away from my house. Really? Living at someone else's house. He's wearing, like, a necklace made of chipmunk skulls. He had this wild look in his eye. No, he just lived with someone else. I don't know how he got there. It was a long way. He hadn't gone Farrell. He just moved in with another family. Yeah, he was in his driveway just hanging out and ran up to the door. Did you pretend like he didn't know you? But he had his tag. He ran right up to me. Wow. And I didn't take him. I was like, I guess you're happier here. How old were you? I was probably like twelve. Wow. Chuck. That was a very adult decision to leave the cat. Yeah. Good for you. I think it's on my bike, too. It just didn't make logistical sense. How am I going to get this cat back? You're going to have them stand on your pegs. And I think I probably went back home and it was like I saw a Scooter and my parents was like, who. We told you never to talk of him again. The one that left. That's so funny. If you want to get a cat, as with all pets, just think about if you have the time to take care of a cat. They don't need the kind of training a dog a puppy does. No, but they still need to be trained as kittens if you're going to take them outside. Sometimes if they're an indoor cat and you're like, I really want my cat to be able to enjoy the outdoors. Strongly recommended that you train them to walk around on a leash. I've seen it. I have two. There's a guy in mine and Yummy's place that has a cat that walks on a leash. Yeah. It's pretty crazy and cute. It's hilarious. You're like, that cat should be wearing a stove top hat or something. That's what it looks like. It looks like some sort of trick is about to happen when you see a cat on a leash. Oh, right. Yeah. That's clearly a performer. Right. Hilarious. You should always adopt cats, even if you want a specific breed. Check with your local shelters because they probably have something that strikes your cat fancy. There are 70 million or 7 million 70 million stray cats in the United States. It's growing every day. Yeah. Like one cat. If this cat is feral and obviously not spayed or neutered right. That can lead to hundreds of cats. Oh, very quickly, if they have a litter or two or three, then those kittens have litters. And always, always stay new to your cat and adopt don't shop because there are tons and tons of great kittens and kitties. Sure. Just walk into a shelter and I guarantee you you will find at least one that you want to keep. Right. Or you can walk around Los Angeles and look for somebody who's trying to adopt the kitten and wrestle it away from them. Yeah. Give me that kit. We got Buckley, our dog, from an actual shelter, but all of the rest of our animals have literally just been pulled off the street because they kind of pulled off. It sounds like you kidnapped. We did. From the wilds. The wilds of La. Except for our youngest dog, which was the only Georgia animal we have. Charlie. We had to trap her in a cage. She was a wild dog. Well, yeah, you can tell. She's like, you stay over there. I'm cool over here. She can move, too. All these years later, Charlie still won't. Like, she'll bark at anyone that comes in her house. Hey, that's who she is. I know part of the breed, too. Oh, yeah. She's a shelter, right? Yeah. Shelter mix of some sort. So they're big on, like, hey, there's a fox over there, kind of thing. Yeah, it's her job. She sits in the front sunroom and just stares and waits for people to walk by so she can bark. It's maddening, is what it is. Especially when you have a sleeping baby. I think one of the funniest things ever is when you're walking past the house and there's a dog in the window and it just watches you. It doesn't work. It just watches you as you go past. Keep walking, pal. Yeah, it's a little distressing. I think it's hilarious to see. Speaking of babies and kids and cats oh, yeah. We're already having to manage that stuff. Because babies, once they start moving she's got that Palmer Grass reflex. Yeah. They don't know. They'll jump on an animal, they'll pull tails and pull hair, and you just have to be really vigilant. And as they grow older, teach them how to pat. Pat. And how to be gentle. Well, yeah. And you should teach your kid using words like gentle and soft. So they say, oh, you're not supposed to see the cats eyeballs when you pet. Pet, you know? Yeah. Wizard already popped her once in the face. Oh, yeah. Claws in. How did she take that? She didn't like it. She cried. Poor kid. And we were like, wizard, you're a jerk. He's like, I'm 13. I know. He's like, It was claws in. It was a warning shot. But that was our fault. We thought we weren't managing it like we should. It's up to you, adult parent. You also want to be careful with kitty litter. Apparently Toxoplasmosis Gandhi has completely ruined our world. So this whole advent of keeping cats indoors has changed humanity in ways that we're only beginning now to understand. Did we do a whole show on that? Yeah, we did some years back. It was a pretty good one, too. It's like has toxoplasmus has turned us all into zombies or something like that. But there was a very recent study that came out of the University of Chicago, and they examined, I think, 358 adults and identified some people that suffered from Intermittent Explosive Disorder, where something just sets you off, and it's totally unreasonable. And a really good example of it is road rage. Right. Yeah. And they found that half of the people with IED had toxoplasmosis infections oh, wow. Which you would have gotten from a cat. I most certainly have it, yeah. Well, supposedly one in three people in the world have it because of cat domestication. Wow. And it's bad if you're a pregnant lady. So if you're pregnant oh, yeah. They say it's time to switch duties if that's how it goes in your house and your husband is on cat litter duty right. Because you have that baby because of toxic plasmas. It can cause birth defects as well in children. Unborn children. Yeah, it's bad news. Great idea to keep a cat endorse. One of the other reasons we didn't mention for doing that is you're much more likely to spot a sickness in your cat if they're always oh, yeah, sorry. Like, you're more in tune with what's going on with your cat baby. Yeah, for sure. We should talk before we leave about purring and catnip. Yeah. Purring. All cats. Well, not all cats. Some wild cats do per. All domestic cats. Per and even raccoons per, which I didn't know. I didn't know that either. Pretty interesting. Have you ever seen foxes? They don't purr. They go it's the best. It's pretty great. Wiggle that tail. Yeah. Fox, to me, is like a dog cat. It's like the ultimate combination. It is, isn't it? Sort of, I think. Oh, by the way, we saw our neighborhood peacock the other day, and I thought of you. Oh, man, those things are so unsettling. Yeah. This dude has he's a crazy bird guy because he has a six. Oh, dude. He's got, like, six peacocks. That's got to be illegal. I don't know. Maybe. I would think so. You're only allowed to have six cats in Atlanta. That's cats. Really? Yeah. Should we turn Holly in? No, she doesn't have more than six. I'd be surprised if she doesn't, but Holly has a separate litter box for each one of her cats, which proves that she's a crazy cat lady. Yeah, she'll tell you, man. Sorry. You're talking about purring? No, we were talking about peacocks, which is the male and female. Which one has the big plume? I think that's the male. So I guess he has four or five females. And then this one huge male peacock right. That will literally sometimes be on the apex of its roof screaming yeah, they get up on the roof. It's like where they like to go. Apparently it's nuts. But he's a bird guy because I've seen on his back deck, he's got this, like, aviary with parrots and cockatoos and all sorts of stuff. Birdland. Yeah. Bird people are weird purring, so they purr, and most of the time it means they're very happy. But they can also purr. If they're upset or startled or injured, they might purr. And they have direct wiring from the brain to the muscles in the voice box. And so they vibrate the muscles and they act as a valve for the air. So it sounds like one continuous purp. But if you listen closely, it is an inhale and an exhale pearl going on. Right. And of course, if you're a cat lover, it's a wonderful thing for your cat to pursue. It's very soothing. Puts you right to sleep. And I guess what else? Cat nap. Well, yeah, catnip is pretty awesome. It is legitimately a drug that cats do. Cats do drugs in the form of catnip. All right. And you can do it two different ways. One, you can inhale it, you can cook it in a spoon and shoot it right through your nose. Through the cat's nose. If you're a cat, you do it through your nose. Sure. And that sends them into, like, ecstasy. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. And then they can also eat it. And that usually makes the cat mellow. And it depends on the cat only I think about half cats are actually sensitive to catnips wilds. It's charms. Yeah, right. But the ones that are, they go nuts for this stuff. Yeah, both of my cats do. And you can get it either dried out, it looks like Oregano, and that's what I said. You could put in your scratching pads to attract them to that. Right. So I put that stuff down, man, they roll around in it and it's pretty great. Or my mom gives me she grows it fresh. Yeah, because it's a member of the mint family. It grows pretty easily. Yeah, it looks like a little mint leaf. And they're more prone to eat the fresh stuff. Oh, really? And roll around in the dried out. I would have guessed the opposite. Yeah. No, it's pretty fun, though. I think it's hilarious that there's a drug for cats. Dogs don't have a drug. True. It's called humankindness. They get off on that. They do. If you want to know more about cats, there's a lot. I mean, we didn't even get into the breeds and cat shows and cat fanciers. There's a lot more out there. Yeah. Cat Fancy magazine. You ever been to Rome, Italy? Yeah. Cats everywhere. Oh, yeah. There are a lot of cats there, aren't they? Yeah. And there's a history to that in Amsterdam, I think. There's that cat boat in the canal. Sure. It's like a boat with a hundred cats on it. I have not heard of that. Yeah, there's a lot more out there. Yeah, sure, there's lots of cats, but we're done with cats, if you ask me. Agreed. If you want to know more about cats, travel to Rome or Amsterdam. You can also save some time and money by just typing the word cats into the searchparthouseupworks.com. Since I said search bar is time for listener mail, I'm going to call this. You were right about math, Chuck. Sort of. Hey, guys. Huge fan of the show. Just started listening a couple of months ago after a friend recommended it, and I've been hooked ever since. I want to make a quick comment about math majors and ambiguity in response to the continent naming episode. I majored in math in college and definitely have an aversion to ambiguity. I really, absolutely hate movies where unresolved endings with unresolved endings. So perhaps you guys are onto something here. However, it should be noted that higher level mathematics, especially pure mathematics, can be incredibly ambiguous, which is why some mathematicians most mathematicians spend their entire careers attempting to solve problems or understand or proof theorems without ever solving anything. Man, I can't imagine. Have you ever seen proof? The movie or the play really good, even if you hate math. Jake, Jillian, halton and Gwyneth paltrow. Oh, wait, depending how you feel about them, isn't, like, Albert Einstein a matchmaker or something in that one? No, that was thinking of a different one. Tim Robbins and Meg Ryan. Yeah, okay. Different movie. All right. Finishing out from Kim, since his uncertainty was maddening, this is why I chose to go to medical school instead. So Kim's no dummy. Thanks for the podcast. And that is from Kim, who she is at the University of Illinois at Chicago. That's where our toxoplasmosis study came from. Actually, it's not true that came from the University of Chicago, but right next door. Yeah, I'm sure they're friends, probably. Or bitter rivals, maybe. So. Well, thanks a lot, Kim. We appreciate the email. If you want to get in touch with us and clarify some random thing we tossed out there, we love that kind of stuff. You can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on Facebook.com Stuffyoushouldnow, you can send us an email to stuffpodcast@houseworks.com. And as always, join us at our luxurious home on the West.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetopworks.com." | ||
41411a8c-53a3-11e8-bdec-9f2809cdf3e0 | Elephants: The Best Animals? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/elephants-the-best-animals | Elephants are pretty much the best. Why? Josh and Chuck will let you know in great detail in today's episode. | Elephants are pretty much the best. Why? Josh and Chuck will let you know in great detail in today's episode. | Thu, 14 Feb 2019 14:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2019, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=14, tm_hour=14, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=45, tm_isdst=0) | 58344256 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from howstuffworkscom? Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W, Chuck Bryant and Jerry. We're just feeling wacky over here. You want to know why? Why? Why? Because this is the Stuff You Should know about maybe the greatest animal walking the planet. And I'm including human beings. Elephants. I'm big on elephants. Love elephants. Might be Emily's spirit animal. She hasn't decided yet. Yeah, I can say 100% it is Yummy's. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Wow. They have the same spirit animal. That's kind of neat. Yes, I know. I like that. I didn't know that. I didn't know Yummy was an elephanter. She is big time into elephant. An elephantest. All right, Charles, are you ready for this? Yes, and really quickly, because we love elephants, we want to go on a safari one day. I've mentioned before. Yeah, but now I know, and we'll get to this later. I was like, Man, I want to swim with those things. Don't do it. No, shouldn't do it. Don't ride them. No, don't do any of those things where you see people on Facebook bragging about riding and getting bathed by elephants. Don't do it. Yeah, it's true. Like, it's not ethical or humane because we'll just say it now. The reason why is because two elephants are wild animals. They're not domesticated, although they display some really bizarre affectionate behavior towards humans that can make you think they are domesticated, they're still wild animals. So to train them to basically ensure that they're not ever going to stomp a person or something like that, you have to take them as babies and what's called crushing their spirit and just basically scare them so bad. Or beat them physically. Right. That's part of the process of crushing their spirit. Beat them, berate them, starve them, tie their legs together, keep them in a pen, all to basically teach them that humans are in charge and that they should be scared to death of doing anything untoward toward a human. That's how you can ride an elephant or how you can bathe with an elephant. Or you may wanted a painting by an elephant. Like there's elephants that make paintings. There's one here in Atlanta, okay. That makes paintings. So we researched it right before we were about to order it. She's like, Wait a minute, let me just see if this is okay. And it turns out that they basically use the same techniques to make an elephant do what a human wants it to. You have to be very cruel to them usually. So there you go. People don't do it. Yeah, that was a weird intro. Well, it was in my crawl. Obviously it was in yours a little bit. But let's talk about elephants, the good stuff. There are three species you probably grew up thinking, like I did, that there's the African elephant and the Asian elephant. Sure, everybody knows that. But now they have broken down the African elephant, the elephant, into two camps, the bush elephant and the forest elephant, both African and like I said, for many, many years, and you will still see in a lot of places just two species. But that is not true anymore. No. One, two, three. And the bush elephant and the forest elephant are so closely related that if they run up against one another, because some of their habitats kind of overlap, sure, they could reproduce and have babies, which no problem whatsoever. But the Asian elephant is so distantly related to them, even though they seem just another kind of elephant. Yeah, it's an elephant that they could conceivably have a kid. And actually one was born in a zoo in the 70s, but he died after, I think, twelve days of an infection. They probably aren't supposed to breed, I guess is how you'd put it. Right. Have offspring. Yeah. So we're going to be talking about all three. Not interchangeably, we'll point out, when we're talking about what but the African bush elephant, those are the biggest ones. They have the biggest ears or at least larger than the Asian elephants. And both sexes for the African bush elephants are more likely to have tusks. Some male Asian elephants have tusks, but they're not as prominent. That's where you see the smaller tusks. And then all three species have five toes on the front feet. But the African bush elephant has three toes on the rear. Asian elephants have four toes on the rear on each foot. Yeah, there's a lot of different toes going on, a lot of different toes. And the African forest elephant is generally about the same shape as his bush friend, but they have straighter tusks because it makes sense they're going through the forest so their tusks don't stick way out and get caught on every other tree that they're walking by. Yes, and I thought this was really interesting. The African forest elephants are so elusive that they have no idea how many there are. All the ideas about their behavior and the stuff that they do is just assumptions made based on the bush elephant that they're related to. They're that good at keeping away from humans. I just think that's amazing. Yeah. And they're a little bit smaller than their friends on the savannah, but they have the same toe arrangement as the Asian elephant. Right. Which is interesting. I never really thought about it, but a lot of the elephants, when I think of elephants, I never realized I was thinking of two different species. But they really do like the Asian elephant and the African bush elephant. They have a lot of differences that you can just very quickly see, which is which kind. The Asian elephant has kind of like the rounded dome head and they have kind of a humpback and they are a little smaller. And then the African bush elephants, they're very big with the big old ears, and they have basically what's called, like, a saddleback. It's kind of flat ish. Right. Or maybe even concave a little bit, too. Yeah. And here's one of the facts of the show for me. Is there's like, 50 in here? There's so many. But elephants, they have tuskness like we have handedness. They use their right or their left tusk more often than the other. And if you ever wonder which tusk is the more dominant one, look and see which one is shorter, because that's the one that gets worn down quicker. I thought that was amazing. Pretty neat. I just figured they were interchangeable. Yeah. No, really? Kind of. I had to stop and put myself into this. Imagine myself standing next to these elephants for, like, measurements. For the average? Yes. You're like, what, 6ft? Yeah, just about. I'm pretty good. I'm like a human dollar bill. A dollar bill is like, a little about six inches. Same thing here. I'm 6ft. Okay. So just stand me next to something and be like, it's about 6ft. Okay. Don't you know about the dollar bill? Well, no. Is that used as a measuring device when you're short the ruler? Yeah, it's about six inches. What if you have no cash, but you do have a ruler? Can you spin the ruler in a hat shop? You could conceivably trade it. Remember that guy who traded? He went from a paper clip to, like, a house trading up. Oh, yeah, that guy. That guy could turn a ruler into cash. He and Soybomb share an apartment now in upstate New York. Soy bomb. All right, so let's talk about the size of these ladies and men, because okay, so everybody imagine me standing next to an elephant, and they'll really drive all this home. Yes. Right. So an African forest elephant is Josh's height up to about 8ft at the shoulder? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You don't measure from the top of the dome. I wonder why they do that with animals. That's always kind of the case. Right. Because I think if the animals, like, well, I want to seem taller, they could just lift their head up very high. Or if they're trying to keep a low profile, they keep their head down the shoulder. It's tough to like when they're having their kindergarten class picture taken. Right. The African bush elephant is taller. It's about eight to 10ft, the shoulder. That's the biggest one. Yeah. Four to six tons. Two to five tons on the forest African and then Asian is seven to 9ft, about three to five short tons. And we should say there's a lot of variation in size here, because I think one of these experts said that the outliers can be as big as 25% taller or larger overall than the average, which is a big variation. Yeah. I think the record for an Asian elephant. And remember, they're at the shoulder seven to 9ft. That's still pretty good size. But the record was eleven and a quarter feet. Man, that's a big elephant. Can you imagine that's? Almost two of me. Yeah. Like me standing on my own shoulders, maybe squatting out just a little bit at the shoulder. That's how big that elephant was. And when you're talking short tons, that's \u00a32000. So, like, an African bush elephant can get, on average, up to \u00a312,000. That's a big boy or girl. Yeah, the boys are a little bit bigger and they live a long, long time. Here's sort of some inspiring and sad facts. They can live 50 to 70 years. They have found and recorded at least one elephant that lived to be 86. That has set the record, which is just amazing. But here's the saddest thing. If you are a zoo elephant, you live maybe less than half as long. So I have to say, the RSPCA in West Sussex, England, has been their numbers have been controversial before. Oh, really? But in this 2008 study, they took 4500 African and Asian elephants that lived in European zoos over the course of 45 years. And this is what they came up with even in the article. The people weren't necessarily contesting this data, but I think the way that they explained it was that this is old data. And so it gave you a good idea of how long elephants lived in captivity a few decades ago, back before they knew more about keeping them in zoos. Yeah. And here's what it says. It said, 36 years in a national park in Kenya, 17 years in a zoo. But it looks to me like, unless I'm reading this wrong, that elephants that work in timber camps, they're very strong. So they are still using in timber camps to haul wood and trees and things. They actually live longer than zoo elephants. Yeah. So the timber elephants of Burma, Myanmar, are very well taken care of, from what I understand. Like, they're considered semicaptive. And for, like, the last 100 years or so, the people of Burma have used them to basically move huge trees, to pull them out of the forest for, like, logging and stuff. But they're really well cared for. There's, like, government veterinarians that do health checks, and each elephant has their own log. And from what I saw, which just seems mind blowing to me, because they're being held captive, in a way, to work for humans. And so, just based on our track record of using animals like that, it's just weird to me that they would be very well taken care of. But supposedly they are. And they're considered semicaptive because at night, they're allowed to just kind of wander around and go free in the forest. And they interact with wild Asian elephants, and that's how they actually reproduce. There's no kind of reproductive oversight. It's just go wild. And they apparently live very long because they're very well taken care of. Yeah. And here's a little fat toy for you. When they get pregnant in those working camps, they get maternity leave for about a year. Yes. So a couple of more quick facts and then we'll take a break. Little BB elephants are cared for by their mothers until they are anywhere between 13 and 20 years old. So it's almost like well, not quite, but it's almost like the human experience a little bit. Yeah. Somewhere in there. I doubt if you're sending your 13 year old off. A terrible parent, maybe. Let's say it's 13 to 20. Let's say that's 18 years. It's about like a high school age. All right. And that's also when they reach sexual maturity. It takes about 20 to 22 months of gestation, which is the longest gestational period of any animal. I'm sorry, any mammal. And a little beebee elephant weighs between 150 and \u00a3250. That's pretty cute. Should we take a break? Yes. All right. More poundage packs right after this. Chuck I just think it's adorable that both of our wives got us into elephants. We're going to have to take a safari together. We should do that. Although that's very dangerous. Like, we don't even fly to Tennessee together. We fear that the plane will go down and the podcast will be over. I guess we could trade off, then. It would be pretty amazing story, though. Like, the podcast would go down in history if you and I were eaten by tigers. That would be a heck of a way to go. Well, Emily and you may could just take it over. There you go. And it would just all be about animals. They should do something together sometime. They should read, listen or mail or something like that. Or they just start their own show called Stuff You Should Know About Our Husband. There you go. People love it. Good idea. I don't know if we would no, we would not. They'd be like, you think they're so great? Let us tell you about these schlubs. No, these puttz. So there should be a ding sound, because you can use putts on every show from now on. All right. Elephants eat 100 to \u00a3600 of food in a day and drink between 16 and 40 gallons of water. Say that again, brother. 100 to \u00a3600 of food in a day and they are eating and I love this, they basically spend their day when they're awake 14 to 16 hours a day, just sort of looking to eat and drink. Yes. Which is it stinks. Like, if you think about it, the reason why they have to eat that much is not because they're so big. Well, it is in part, but mostly because they're herbivores and their digestive system is ridiculously inefficient. If elephants are as intelligent as they appear to be, and probably even more than they appear to be, once we start to learn more about them, I think all it's going to do is just provide a Cascading series of woes. If they didn't have to spend so much of their time looking for food, what would they be doing? Maybe they would learn to paint on their own. Maybe. So the reason why they eat so much again is because they don't digest a lot of that food and so undigested stuff comes out as poop in such frequency that you can actually make paper out of it. There's elephant poop paper, people use it and they get the fiber out of the elephant poop to make paper with. Oh, wow. That's how undigested so much of their food is. Yeah, they eat, like you said, they are herbivores, so they eat all kinds of plants. They love fruit. I imagine that's like the sweet, sweet nectar. Sure. When compared to dry bamboo. And they can study their poop and learn a lot from their poop, just like most animals. Well, elephants don't study their own poop. How do you know? I guess they might. No, of course scientists study it and they can learn a lot by because like you said, those African forest elephants, they're very elusive in the forest and you can't find them, but you can find their poop everywhere. Yeah, you can tell their anus size from their poop size, which sounds hilarious and it is. But you also can tell like the age and the general size of the elephant based on their anus size, which you find based on their poop size. That's right. Plus you can make a banging paper out of it too. Sure. The range, the African bush elephants have a very wide range across Africa, south of the Sahara Desert. And the forest elephant are in rainforest, that's the name near the equator, sort of around Cameroon is where they're largely centered as far as Asian, they're all over Southeast Asia. They have some in China even. But India is really where you're going to find the most Asian elephants. See Thailand, Indonesia, Sumatra, Sri Lanka, they each have more than 1000 and we already talked about Burma a little bit. They have the second largest total population worldwide, I guess except for India. They have the largest captive population of at least 5000, all working in those government timber camps, which again, I'm sure somebody's going to write and be like, they're not taken very well cared, but I didn't see anything like that, which I'm just astounded by. I don't know if that's coming across or not, but I'm really astounded. Yeah, and if you listen to our episode, I guess it's either from last week or it will be next week, and then I'm predicting the future about elephant swimming in the which one was that? Loch Ness. They do love to swim and they are very floaty, they're very buoyant. You're not going to find an elephant drowned in the water. They can not only swim, but if they get tired, they can just float bob. Yeah, they can just bob in the water. And apparently an elephant has been recorded as swimming 48. Pretty amazing. And 6 hours at a stretch. Yeah, that's pretty nuts. And baby elephants. One of the greatest things you can do is sit around and watch baby elephants splashing in kiddie pools on YouTube. They love it. They love to swim. Yeah. Let's talk about the trunk, because when you see an elephant and you watch this, if he's, like, really studying elephant for a while and you look at that trunk, it's amazing. It looks like a completely separate living thing almost sometimes. Yeah. But it's a nose. It's basically their upper lip and their nose combined together in this elongated form. Yeah, but when they watch an elephant, a lot of times they're just standing still. But this trunk is doing so many crazy looking things. I see what you mean. Yeah. It just looks like its own animal. Almost like thing from the Adams family. The disembodied hand. That's exactly what I was thinking. Or the alien hand syndrome guy from our short lived TV show. Right. Basically the same thing. Right, exactly. And one of the big theories is that trunk and this makes a lot of sense to me, evolutionarily speaking, is that trunk developed as compensation. Basically, I can reach things higher without having to grow, or I can get things on the ground without having to crouch down and put my head on the ground, which makes me very vulnerable to attack. Right. So I have this big, long, extended nose that can go get stuff on the ground or up above me, and I can still sort of be safe. Yes. Okay. So it's a nose that you can use to get things with, including water. Apparently, it holds up to two gallons of water in the trunk. Just in the trunk. But it's also really dexterous, I guess. It has 100,000 muscles in it, both fast twitch and slow twitch. So I've read that an elephant can pull a limb off of a tree with its trunk or pluck a blade of grass out of the ground. It can do it all, basically. It can deal cards, whatever. But you shouldn't train an elephant to deal cards. No, just put the cards down and walk away. And if it happens, it happens. That is the motto of dealing with elephant. And initially, evolution might have said, hey, use these great things to drink water out of. But like we said, and we'll continue to hammer this home, elephants are super smart. So they said, hey, I've got this really long fifth arm that has 200,000 muscles in it so I can get food, and I can bathe myself, and I can pick up dust and mud and put it all over my body if I don't want to get sunburned or if I want to have a sort of lofi insect repellent. Or I can communicate with my buddy over there with my trunk. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff they do with their trunk that we're starting to figure out. There's a group called Elephant Voices and they have an elephant gestures database based on decades of studying elephants up close. And they have a really complex and intricate basically a sign language that includes more than just their trunk. But their trunk plays a big role in it too. Yeah, there's one example on this article, Flop trunk on Head, and that is an elephant basically raising the head vertically and then flipping their trunk really high up in the air and letting it pop down on their head. That is a very specific play based gesture. Kind of a joyful play. Yeah. If you see an elephant doing that, they're having a good time. Yeah. The Elephant gestures database, the names of the different things. The gestures sound like they were all written by Nell. Flop trunk on head. Missed a chicken, mate. I've got another fact of the podcast for you. Ready? Alright. Baby elephants suck their trunks like human babies suck their thumb. Isn't that amazing? I mean, forget about it, man. I know. I can't even with this stuff. I know. And Tim Burton's going to ruin it all with a new dumbo movie. Oh, is it live action? Yeah, I think it's live action. CGI. He's going to ruin it. Sure he is. Poor Tim Burton. He's the ruiner of things. You ruined everything. You ruined her. Elephants, all elephants originated in Africa and then spread throughout the world from there, including North America across, like everything else, across the Bering Strait land bridge or ice bridge, depending on when it was, and then all the way into South America from there. Yeah, you can make a pretty strong case that they drew humans into North America because they migrated first and humans probably followed them as hunters, like millions of years later. Oh, yeah. So this is weird. So the mammoth and the elephant share a common ancestor. The most recent common ancestor is 6 million years in the past, which means that elephants and mammoths coexisted at the same time. Like elephants have been around a really long time. It's just, I guess when they moved out of Africa and beyond Asia, up into the Russian steps in Siberia and across the Lambridge, and then back down into North America, and then eventually South America, they took on many different forms. But the woolly mammoth is the one you typically think of. Sure. But there were elephants at the same time. There were also mammoths and there were other kinds of mammoths besides the woolly mammoth, which I think we did a wooly mammoth episode. We did do a woolly mammoth episode. All right, if you say so. We did. And they were all over. There was also a type of mammoth, or not even a mammoth, it was just a different type of elephant called a Gambit theater that was in South America. And if you look at a gampathe. I think it was a little bigger than the elephants of today, but it just looks like an elephant. And they used to hunt them down in South America and hunted them to extinction. They think possibly a combination of that and climate change, but you don't think of elephants and the Americas. But there definitely were some here for a very long time. But climate change can't be real, Josh, because it snowed last week, right? Well, yeah, exactly. I mean, just imagine that it hadn't snowed and we would all know that climate change is real. Or was rather a naturalist in the 18th century France name, and this is a great name, you want to say it? Actually, you're our French expert. Oh. I wasn't expecting this. George Louis Leclerc, the conde buffon. Was that his title? Is that what that means? Yes, it's the Count of well, buffon. Okay. Which I'd be like, can I get another township instead of buffon? What's wrong with buffon? It's so so it's okay. It's kind of a garish word, you know what I'm saying? Sure. Sounds like buffont. Yeah. And like, who wants a Buffant hairdo these days? Nobody. Nobody except the B. Maybe that lady from the old MARTINEZON. Now, what was the name of that steakhouse? The local steakhouse? Oh, Outback Steaks. No, what's the other one? Longhorn. Do you remember the ads of the 90s with the lady with the buffon? The Longhorn steaks? Yeah. You do? I really don't. What was her deal? She was just like a protohipster lady. Really? Yeah, it was on the Longhorn commercials. Very interesting, man. Now I could go for a steak. Yeah, me too. Alright, so where were we? Right. The 18th century century naturalist. He wrote a lot about natural history and he loved the elephant and he was really knocked out by the intelligence of why is that funny? Just the idea of him being like, man, I am knocked out by that is far out, man. He was knocked out by the brain and the intelligence of the elephant. Right. And he said, it approaches near to man and understanding as much at least as matter can approach to mind, which I understood the first half of it. I think in 18th century speak, that means these dudes are really smart. Right. And I mean, he wasn't just making stuff up here, he was onto something. Because elephants are extremely intelligent from what we can tell. And again, we're just learning more and more about them. And as we learn more about them, study the way that they interact with one another and how they interact with us, we're like, well, these are some of the sharpest animals on the planet. Yeah. They have different personalities. Each elephant has its own personality. And you've heard about an elephant not forgetting they do have a great memory and great recognition ability. And this story, everyone I love this story is kind of the best thing ever. In 1999, at a sanctuary in Tennessee, there was a resident elephant named Jenny. They introduced a new lady named Shirley, an Asian elephant, and they went berserk for one another. They were checking each other out. They were slapping trunks. They were really animated. They described it as Euphoria bellowing. And then Jenny starts bellowing, and they said that I've never experienced anything that intense without it being aggression. They did a little digging, and it turns out that 23 years earlier, for just a few months, jenny and Shirley were in the same circus together. And they saw each other 23 years later and were like, girl, what have you been up to? What I think is cool about that story, in addition to the fact that they remembered each other after 23 years, but also it says so much about them that they were able to form a bond like that in just a few months. In just a few months. I think this is a tremendous amount about elephants in elephant society. What a story. Love it. Yeah. So, because they have these kind of relationships with one another, they have really complex, as Ed puts, a very rich societies and families and groups that they live in, their social networks are very rich and complex. Right? Yeah, big time. And one of the ways I didn't realize this, but I came across this in researching this article. Apparently, if you see a bunch of deer hanging around or some birds flying together, they're not like buddies or friends. They don't know one from another. Typically stop. Don't say that. But I mean, I hadn't really thought about that before. Take it back. I always assumed at least they knew each other by smell or something like that. But from what I saw, I can't remember where I saw it, but they were saying like, it's atypical for animals to recognize one another as individuals. And the elephants definitely do, as evidenced by that story. But that kind of lends evidence to the idea that elephants are self aware, which is a growing awareness among humans that elephants seem to be self aware. And one way we test the animals to see if they're self aware is called the mirror test, which is kind of a test that we can improve on it, but it does for sure, it does suggest that the possibility that the animal sees itself as an individual. Yeah. So this was developed by Gordon Gallup Jr. So I definitely think there's an update that we need here. We need this 2.0 version, but they test a lot of animals. Apes, great apes, dolphins, orcas and Magpies have passed this test along with one Asian elephant named Happy. And what they do is they get a mirror, they take the animal and put a red mark and paint this red mark and let's say on their face something that they can't see without a mirror. They hold up the mirror. And if the animal looks at the mirror and then if they did this to me, I would throw my poop at the mirror and smash the mirror. Sure. But if the animal doesn't do that and they actually touch their own face, then they understand that they're seeing themselves and not some other weird animal across from them. Right. They realize that they're seeing their reflection, and that shows self awareness. If they laugh at how silly they look, then that really shows self awareness, maybe even self consciousness. Yeah. And it takes human children a couple of years to pass this test. We should say yes. Apparently, not all the great apes pass the test that gorillas don't, which is weird. They think that possibly gorillas don't because making eye contact in the gorilla world is such an aggressive act that they just don't look at themselves in the mirror enough to see that they have that mark on their face. That's what they think. Yeah. And this isn't like we said, it's pretty low phi. Some. You can't say this is proof that they are self aware and sentient, but it's a pretty cool test. It is. Plus, also, dogs don't pass it, which automatically means that it's a failure of a test because Momo herself proves that all dogs are self aware and smart and perfect in every way. Yeah, and they also do point out with dogs, the way they see the world is through their nose. So maybe this isn't the best test for them. Right. So they could do a scent version, maybe. Right. I don't know how you would do it. I've been trying to figure it out for days with Momo just in my head, but yeah, I'll eventually experiment on mo. Well, there is another test that they use to kind of show self awareness and the idea of individual identity, and that's through third party relationships. Yeah, this is pretty cool. So I guess it says they accidentally drive a Jeep in between an elephant and her offspring, her baby. And the elephant might not notice because she's busy doing something else. But if another elephant trumpets to the mom elephant to say, hey, there's a Jeep between you and your baby, that elephant is indicating that it's aware that that mom and that baby are related, that they have a relationship that has nothing to do necessarily with that third elephant who warned the mom that's not supposed to exist among nonsensient beings. Right. And by the way, if all this talk about sentience and self awareness among animals is floating your boat we did a two part series on animal rights that touched on this heavily. Yeah, that's right. Because there was a famous case where they were trying to get personhood in human rights for a chimp. Right? Yeah, the Non Human Rights Project. They moved on to elephants, including that elephant, Happy, that passed the mirror test. And right now, Happy is in the Bronx zoo. And the Non Human Rights Project position is basically like an elephant's range is at least 100 times what the exhibit that Happy lives in. It's like an acre. And their range is so wide that in a single day, happy in Africa would probably walk about 100 acres by Happy as an acre. And Happy is a sentient being and deserves better. And so they're trying to spring her by making her by bestowing personhood through the courts. And they actually got a habeas corpus issued, which you only do that for humans. And then the only other time it's happened is with chimps through the Non Human Rights Project and it's up in the air. But the judge basically said, hey, you guys need to show whether or not you're unlawfully imprisoning ascension being a person, basically. Wow. Yeah, that's where it stands right now. All right, well, let's take a break and contemplate that for a couple of hours. And then we'll dust ourselves off, come back and talk a little bit about the difference between male and female elephants. This whole episode is fun. So males leave when they're young teenagers. They leave earlier than the little ladies do. They set off on their own. They might move from group to group. They may join up with another family. But by and large, they usually get around and live alone. But they do form groups when they need to. It's not permanent. It could change. And it is a static situation, kind of like going between different groups and different groups of males getting together. But when they do get together, the males, there is a definite hierarchy involved, seniority based on size and age. And that hierarchy is really important to kind of maintain order when it comes to who gets the water first and stuff like that. Right. Or which way we're going to walk to go find water or something like that. There needs to be somebody in charge. But supposedly when there's plenty of water and everybody's got all the food they need or whatever, that hierarchy can break down pretty easily. But also informally, not like it breaks down in society. Just crumbles among this group of males. Right. It breaks down because it's not necessary, which is kind of neat. And apparently the groups of males that hang out together are likened to a group of old drinking buddies. They're just rowdy. Yeah, it's kind of funny. Rough housing and all that kind of stuff. Males occasionally will go through something. It's kind of like being in heat. It sounds like called must. Well done, musth. And this is when their testosterone goes through the roof and they are like, I need to mate. Like yesterday I got the itch, I got a severe itch, and I can't scratch it with my tusk because they're fixed. Rough housing with my drinking buddies isn't helping. None of that is helping. And when they're going through this must phase, like all the other male elephants recognize this and say, hey, Freddie over there. As you can tell, guys, he's really feeling it. So why don't we let him drink first? And why don't we just kind of go where he wants to go? Right now he's leaking a trail of urine everywhere. That's a literal physical warning to the rest of us to stay back. Yeah. And a little scent for ladies to say, well, let me follow this trail and see where it goes. It smells like sex. Panther 100% of the time. Half the time it works, 100% of the time I don't remember. I should know that. We both should, chuck. We both just failed spectacularly occasionally, and this is kind of what I've seen, is the only times when elephants really get aggressive with one another. But if it gets pretty extreme and these male elephants, there's a couple of them going through, must they will go at it to get the lady, they will gore each other. And no one wants to talk about that because everyone wants to think elephants are always getting along. But sometimes when there's a couple of dudes around that are both super revved up, they can get in a fight over a lady to the death sometimes. Yeah. And I think you kind of said it. But males mostly live on their own and they do form these groups, and they do have friendships and bonds with other males, but they are very frequently found, like traveling by themselves, probably to avoid stuff like that. But if you're bummed out by the fact that elephants will kill other elephants to have access to females, you can take heart in that elephants aren't territorial at all. They don't have territory. And when different groups of elephants, whether it's males and groups of females, or different groups of the same sex or whatever, you have a bunch of different groups of elephants coming together in the same place. They basically have a party, a jamboree. They do like, if it's a body of water or a place where there's a lot of fruit or some reason for a bunch of elephants who don't know one another get together, it's not only a party, but at that party you can have like Shirley's and who's that? Jenny's and Jenny's going, oh my God, I haven't seen you in twelve years. Yeah. What are you up to? Is that your little baby? It's the sweetest thing. Yeah. They get really excited when they see old friends. They'll do like pirouettes, pee, poop. Sometimes they pee and poop out of excitement to see one another, which is adorable. Yeah. And kind of lone wolf as the males can be. The females are really this is when you really get the heartwarm going. heartwarm? heartwarm. Not heartworm. It will give you heartwarm thinking about it. This is when it can warm your heart. Because females, they lived very much in an organized way. They live in family groups. There are mothers, sometimes three generations all together, and they're little pups and their aunts and their moms and grandmas. There might be up to 30 of them together with all their kids. And they're all led, which is usually the oldest one, but not always. But they are led by a matriarch, and the matriarch is the one that's like, let's go this way. Not because I just am older and smarter, but I actually have experience that I can remember that will help lead us to safety. Yes. Which is pretty spectacular. It's another thing that's remarkable about elephants is that the Matrix lead by experience. There was this drought in Tanzania, and the different herds led by matriarchs that were old enough to remember the last drought, back in like, 1958 to 1961. The ones that had lived through that before as younger elephants, they remembered how the herd survived, and so their herd was likelier to survive that drought than herds that were led by younger matriarchs that hadn't lived through that previous drought. So they remember this stuff and they lead their herds based on this past experience and the wisdom that they gained from it. Let's just say it from wisdom. They lead by wisdom. They do. And some matriarchs are very confident. Some are very vigilant, though, and a little more nervous. It kind of depends on who your matriarch is. Some are very maternal, and when they send the signal for everyone to go, they're like, well, let's wait, because Janice's little pup is still bathing. Then some of them are more like, no, come on, get out of the water. We're going. We're leaving now. Come on, Janice. I'm going with or without you. Janice is like, what a bummer. And then they're together also for a very practical reason. They help each other out. They babysit for one another. God's sake. I love that. They babysit for each other. Josh I know the mom can go off and forage for food, for pup, and know that the pup is being watched by some of her herd members, her family members is what they're called. That's right. If a matriarch dies, there's a little short time where they're like, all right, who's next? Who's going to step up? They have ranked choice voting. That's how advanced they are. They're more advanced than every state in the Union. Besides Maine. Besides Maine. A lot of times, like we said, it's the oldest remaining female, like she would be next up, but sometimes it is not. Sometimes it is the matriarch's daughter. And she will just assume the position of mom of her mother yep. As matriarch. Yeah. Kind of like what is that called where you become king or queen? Because your father mother was king or queen. Sure. I can't remember what it's called. But your birthright. Yeah. Basically, that exists in the elephant society. If that elephant happens to be suited for the job, and if there's an issue. If there's a dispute where some elephants are like, actually, I don't think she's ready yet, I'm not going to follow her, I'm going to follow Janice. And Janice will be like, far out. That's it. Like Janice and the other elephants that want to follow her, they go off on their own family. There's no battle. There's no fight to the death over dominance. It's just like, all right, we'll see you later. And then they may see each other later at that clearing or at that watering hole and be just happy as pie to see one another. And they may also even travel together, but just at a much greater distance, but within communicating distance to, like, warn one another and kind of basically keep up the same pace. But they just keep their distance more. Yeah. They'll growl at one another. They'll trump it. They'll grunt, they will stomp their feet, they will flick their ears, they will use their trunks, they will angle their heads and tusks and switch their tails. These are all communications. And while they were stomping and while they do have those big, sturdy feet, they're also really sensitive. So if an elephant is just standing still, it can feel the vibrations in the ground of something far away or someone calling them from far away through the ground, through their feet. Like the rumbling through the ground of an elephant growling, like, miles away. Yeah. And also that trunk, I forgot to mention, they have a really sensitive sense of smell. Supposedly, they can smell water up to 12 miles away. Oh, wow. That's water that has no smell. Right. They've been shown to smell storms up to, like, 150 miles away. Wow. Yeah. Amazing. Pretty amazing. I don't know if we've gotten this across or not, but elephants are pretty amazing. We do that with all our animal podcasts. I know, I love it. They should do one about, like, I don't know, what's a boring animal that's not so impressive. Let's see, let's see. They're all great. Yes. I really can't think of a boring animal. Like, there's something fascinating about every animal. Yeah. I was going to say frogs, but I was like, oh, no, frogs turned out to be pretty fascinating. Oh, frogs are the best. No, elephants are the best. There's this one researcher that firmly believes that elephants have a sense of humor, and she said she was recalling how they play and they would charge her car and she thought they were tripping and falling and tusk the ground, and they kept doing it and she was like, no, I know what they're doing now. They're prat falling. They are pretending to fall in front of the car and having a good time doing it. Yeah, like, they pretended they were charging her car in the sanctuary, but then they trip right before it. And it happened enough times that she realized that they were joking. Yeah. It's amazing. I love it. I do, too. What else? Well, this is the saddest thing, because everyone knows that elephants mourn. We've all seen the videos, and it is true, I think, in our grief episode, I told the story of Domini, the elephant who basically died of a broken heart from grief. Don't retell that story. All right. But they very famously grieve. There will be extended mourning periods for groups of elephants. There are grieving rituals over corpses, and they also suffer PTSD if they witness violence. So if they see a poacher kill and detusk an elephant, they will have literal PTSD and stress symptoms. So one thing I saw was that PTSD, it's tough to compare it to human PTSD, but that there are real pronounced effects on them, usually related to stress, but also apparently related to not having been brought up in their society. So that when they say, like an orphan that survives the culling and is raised outside of elephant society, it's just not quite right. When you compare it to an elephant that was raised by elephants throughout its maturity and that they frequently call it things like PTSD or things like that, but it's almost its own thing. Right. But again, if you did that to a deer or a bird or something, it's not going to have that same effect. I hate to say it, but it doesn't appear to be smart enough to suffer psychological damage. Maybe that's good from a traumatic experience. Yeah. I mean, don't feel sorry for the deer. Deer is probably quite glad. You should still feel sorry for the deer for what we do to deer. Oh, well, yeah, that's a whole other story about these little things that go on the front of my car that supposedly keep deer away, but I don't know if they work. I see them, the giant hands that clap and say, oh, wait, dear, I don't even know how this thing works. And it very well may not work at all. But the way I put it to Emily, I was like, unless these actually attract deer, then it's worth, like, the $5 that it cost. Just give it a shot. Do you remember those hats that had a cord clamp? Do you remember that? Sure. My dad had one of those. Did he really? Yeah. Oh, man. Did he ever have the hat with the two the beers on both sides? He wasn't quite cool enough for that one, but he was cool enough for the clapping hat. Okay. I think that's the opposite of cool, actually. I think so, too. The herbal elbows. So we mentioned before about how to interact with elephants, and the only way that we found to interact with elephants ethically is if you go on an ethical safari and observe them from afar through your binoculars, or if you're in the car and you can see them, great. But if you see something that's advertised as an elephant sanctuary, say something. Yeah, I mean sanctuary. There's no law that dictates when you can use that word. And when travelers hear that word, they think, oh, well, this means this is where elephants go to be taken care of because it's a sanctuary. I see it's right there on the sign. Right? It's not necessarily what that means. That elephant that you ride or bathe in the pool with may have been had its spirit crushed by being kept in that tiny pin and starved and beaten for weeks at a time. This founder of the UK group called Action for Elephants, UK Maria Mossman, she basically says, any place that advertises unnatural behavior, just stay away from, because elephants shouldn't be doing tricks for humans, right? And that includes, like, bathing with the elephants, which does sound awesome. And elephants do bathe and they love to swim and frolic. But the big problem with that is that in a sanctuary where that's how you get the people to come, that means you have to keep the elephant in the water all day and let people climb all over it all day. That's just genuinely unnatural. It's unnatural for a human to ride an elephant. It's really easy to step back once you think in the broad term of unnatural behavior, all of that starts to become quite clear what you should and shouldn't do with an elephant or participate in with an elephant. Instead, just let it do its elephant thing and observe it from afar and appreciate it from afar. Yeah. I saw a video the other day, though, of the black lab that was best friends with an elephant. I didn't see that one. I don't know the background of this elephant, but this black lab was climbing all over in it and jumping off in the water, and they looked like they were having a good time. It's unnatural that dog should be punished for doing it. It was unnatural, but it wasn't a human, it was a dog. Labs, they're great. They're pretty great, too. As far as their threats, obviously, all three species are in decline. It's super sad. Their range, which is a great range, like you're talking about, has been encumbered upon by humans for centuries and thousands of years even. They just don't have as much room, thanks to people and deforestation and fences and roads and oil pipelines and things. And then there's the poaching problem of killing elephants for their tusks and now their skin. That's a new thing. It's just horrific to think about. Yeah, brand new as of, like, 2013. Some, I believe a Chinese entrepreneur said, hey, you know what would be cool is if I started a trend for beads, jewelry made out of elephant skin. Let me do that. And now, all of a sudden, the number of elephants that are killed for their skin jumped in Burma, just over the border from China, from ten a year in 2012 to 61 in 2016, and their skin had already been used in traditional Chinese medicine to cure gastritis and ulcers and regrow skin, allegedly, which accounts for that ten in 2012. But apparently the jewelry really caused this jump over the last few years. Yeah. China looks like they have granted licenses to import at least 35 elephants for skinning over the last couple of years. So that's just awful. It really is. What a great way to end the show. Yeah. They're not endangered, from what I understand. I think they're listed as vulnerable by the World Wildlife Foundation, but their numbers have gone down dramatically. In 1930, there were 10 million wild elephants in Africa. Wow. There's 415,000 today. Jeez. And just in a decade, I believe in the 2000s, they dropped by $111,000 in just one decade. Wow. And in some places, I mean, most of it's poaching. Some countries still have, like it's legal to trade in ivory. South Africa, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia, and Eswatini, which you may know and love, formerly Swaziland, it's legal to trade in elephant ivory in the US. The UK. Japan, and Thailand, it's legal to trade in antique elephant ivory that was brought into market before they enacted laws against it. But that's pretty much the biggest threat. And then also, like you said, their habitat encroachment. If you build a pipeline, the elephants just don't step over pipelines. They're like, oh, okay, well, our range just got cut in half. And again, their range is enormous, like an African bush elephant. Their home range is, like, almost 3 million acres. They'll walk hundreds of acres in a single day. So even keeping one in the zoo, even if you're keeping it alive, even if you keep it alive for a while, like, you're really robbing it of its experience. Even in a large sanctuary, you're still robbing it of a lot of its experience, too. It's basically like, we need to preserve and sustain their home ranges, is really the best way to keep them around. Yeah, it's like the whale shark. It's like you're used to the ocean. How about this large pool? Exactly. I got a real problem with that. That's another episode we did. Our zoo is good or bad for animals. Yeah, man, that was a good one. I got one last thing which got so you remember that thing that went around? It was, like, on Twitter for a while. It was, elephants see humans and think we're cute the way that we see puppies and think they're cute. No, I don't remember that. Oh, it was huge. Massive. Totally made up. All right, well, I'm glad I didn't see it. Okay, well, I guess that's it. Thanks for bursting that bubble. I couldn't just let that stand. No, of course not. Yeah, there's a good Snopes article about that. It's worth checking out. But that doesn't mean that they don't actually think we're cute. It's just never been proven. How about that? If you want to know more about elephants, go learn more about elephants. There are definitely worse things you could do with your time. And since I said that it's listener mail time, I'm going to call this a bit of a Mecca culpa on our Central Park episode when we spoke about Robert Moses. Yeah, I don't remember saying this guy was the best thing ever or anything, but there was a darker history there that we did not know about and we'd like to correct that. Yes, we heard from a few people, and this is from Joe Kennedy. He said, if you do some deeper research on Robert Moses, you'll discover the troubling and true effect he had and continues to have on the racial and socioeconomic segregation entrenched in our cities. I won't flood your email with a book length argument, but many books and papers have been written on the topic, many of the mentioning Robert Moses. Specifically. I would ask that you take a deeper dive into this particular character, if nothing else, and for your own opinions and views of its effect on our country and racial tensions that persist throughout. I've never written into a podcast or a radio show or website of any kind really. But I thought this is important to point out because it's all too common that people who have committed heinously racist and hateful acts in this history of our country are excused on the basis of being a product of their times or having done good elsewhere. Or whatever other excuse is propped up to protect their character. And listen guys, I've listened to enough of your shows to know that you are smart guys with broad educated worldviews and seem like you are morally good people. So I'm not suggesting anything other than a little more research on this specific character, just so you know for yourselves. Thanks for the show, guys, and your endless hours of entertainment and education. I truly enjoyed them. That is Joe Kennedy and we heard from other people, but we appreciate you bringing that to light. For sure, yeah, thanks Joe, appreciate it. And everybody who wrote in to say he's actually a villain and actually I'd heard about him before, separately, I didn't connect the two and realized that that was the same guy. We dropped the ball, Chuck. Yeah. We'll try and do better, everybody. Okay, well, if you want to get in touch with us to tell us how we can do better, we always love to improve. So do that. Do it nicely, but do it. You can go onto our website stuffyoushouldnow.com and check out our social links there. I have a website called the Joshclarkwaycom. Check that out too. And you can send us an email to stuffpodcast@howstuffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseupworks.com. Ah, summer school's out. The sun is shining, the daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon music that's so good it's criminal. Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, Morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Ercart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this chart topping series will have you hooked before you know it. Listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | |
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podcasts.howstuffworks.com/hsw/podcasts/sysk/2017-03-09-sysk-trail-of-tears-part-two-final.mp3 | History of the Trail of Tears, Part II | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/history-of-the-trail-of-tears-part-ii | In the second of two parts, what was once a voluntary resettlement program becomes a violent, forced relocation under the leadership of President Andrew Jackson. | In the second of two parts, what was once a voluntary resettlement program becomes a violent, forced relocation under the leadership of President Andrew Jackson. | Thu, 09 Mar 2017 08:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2017, tm_mon=3, tm_mday=9, tm_hour=8, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=68, tm_isdst=0) | 41060476 | audio/mpeg | "With no fees or minimums on checking and savings accounts. Banking with Capital One is like the easiest decision in the history of decisions. Kind of like choosing to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast. And with their top rated app, you can deposit checks and transfer money anytime, anywhere, making Capital One an even easier decision that's banking reimagined what's in your wallet terms. Apply capital one in a member. FDIC you want your kid eating the best nutrition, right? And by that we mean your dog. Halo Elevate is natural sciencebased nutrition guaranteed to support your dog's top five health needs better than leaving brands? Find Halo Elevate at Petco pet supplies plus and select neighborhood pet stores. Welcome to stuff you should know from howstepworkscom? Hi and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W, Chuck Bryant. And Jerry is over there. And this is part two of Trail of Tears, which we already did. Part one, if you haven't heard that, I would strongly recommend you go listen to that one first. Yes, and just a 15 2nd recap of part one. We are in 1830, roughly, and America is getting along great with Native Americans, and they say, why don't we all just live together and we can all just share wealth. The end. Oh, wait, that's not what was happening at all. No, americans wanted more land. Indians had land. Americans felt that the Indians weren't putting it to good enough use and use that to morally justify forcing them to leave their land. That's right. In the form, officially, of the Removal Act. And that's where we pick up. And the government said, you know what? Let's start off with future podcaster. Chuck Bryant's tribe the Choctaw. Are you Choctaw? I have very negligible amount of Chocol. As long as it's not negligent. No. In fact, I'm not exactly sure how much, but I know my but I think my dad did my family tree at one point, and I got some chocolate. I love chocolate. Yeah, it's great. So they picked the chocolate because they said, well, they're pretty friendly, and we think this can be a good I mean, was it sort of a proof of concept? That's what I know how this could work. Yeah. They said, how about you guys go first? Right. And the chocolate said, okay, fine. We'll sign this we'll sign this treaty where we're going to seed all of our land east of the Mississippi to the federal government, and in exchange, we're going to get a sizable amount of land in this new Indian territory, what you guys will later call Oklahoma. Right. And the chocolate, again, they went largely willingly. Yeah. Even though they were split internally, like all the tribes were to some degree. Right. And there were three divisions in the Eastern Division, which was led by Chief Mohala Tubi. He basically said, you know what? We're not going to win this war. Let's just we'll just sign this treaty. Right. So he negotiated the treaty and the Chocolate moved. And as they were moving, the whole thing was carried out. The whole Indian removal process was carried out by the War Department, which in and of itself says something. The fact that it's being carried out by federal soldiers with guns and bayonets rather than, say, some other civilian department, that in and of itself says a lot. Right. Yeah. It's going to form a certain type of tension to the whole thing. Yeah. It reminds me of the great movie Doctor Strangelove. There's no fighting in the war room. It's one of the best lines from that movie. So the Chuck Tower going, Some of them said, no, I'm not going. And they were shackled and bound and were forced to undertake this journey. I think if you look at the trail that the Cherokee took, I think it was like 1200 miles for them. They were coming from the Carolinas and Georgia by way of middle Tennessee, I think. But the chocolate were coming from Mississippi and Alabama. It may have been a little shorter. But regardless, the chalk tow were forced to march with very little supplies, with very little caretaking to prevent them from dying for several hundred, if not 1000 miles out of their homelands to this new Indian territory. And a lot of them did die on the way. Yeah. And I get the feeling that the ones dying were like the attitude of, well, that's just fewer people we have to worry about journey. That is very astute. I think that is kind of the impression that it was kind of like, you're lucky we're letting any of you move anyway and not just exterminating all of you. Right. And again, like I pointed out in the last episode, I think this other attitude that like, well, I mean, you're American Indians. It doesn't matter where you're from. You can get along out there. It doesn't matter that you're coming from the lush, green southeastern what would become the United States and moving out to the Great Plains, which you know nothing about. Right. You don't know how to succeed there or farm there necessarily. They probably could have figured it out because they had done so all across North America for eons. But they weren't set up for success in any way being relocated. Right. So 2500 Choctaw died along the way out of 20,000 died in three waves of migration. And the first group to arrive in Oklahoma found some reporters waiting there. There were white people there too, already. Yeah, there were settlers. I'm sure when the Eastern tribes got there, they're like white people. No. Yeah, you promised. When the first group the first of the three chalkshaw waves and from what I understand, they were the first ones to move under the Indian Removal Act. But when they got there, there are some reporters there that said how was it, basically, scale of one to ten. And one of the chalkhow chiefs, who it wasn't exactly was lost to history. It was either Chief Nitty Catchy or Chief John Harkins. And one of them described it as a Trail of Tears and death. And that's where the Trail of Tears ultimately got its name from, was an unknown Choctaw chief who was among the first to arrive in Oklahoma. Yeah, and you'll hear a lot of names in this part two, like Chief John Harkins. You're like, Wait a minute, that doesn't sound like a very American Indian name. Right? And these are just great examples of how inculturated some of these factions of tribes had become, right? Like they were speaking English. They had English names and still being removed. Yeah. And again, traded extensively with white people. A lot of them were Christian, some of them fought alongside the federal government. And yes, they were still being removed. All right, so the Trail of Tears was kind of coined there, although it wouldn't, like you said earlier in the first episode, the Cherokee Trail of Tears is sort of what most people think about as the official Trail of Tears. Right. But regardless, this reporter got this, blasted it out, and the whole world sort of is now privy to these stories of this atrocity going on. So you might think, well, they probably just tried this once then and got so much blowback that they said, this does not look good for us. Right. So we should kind of stop it. Yeah, that's not how it went. No, not how it went at all. No. The whole process ground on. I think there was kind of probably a sense among the pro removal factions in Washington saying, like, just 2500 died out of 20,000. Yeah, it's way less than we thought it was going to be. An acceptable amount of casualties. Basically white Americans as well. The idea was, ultimately, Indians are going to be free from encroachment by whites out there in Indian territory. The War Department is tasked with making sure that happens. The War Department did not do that. And in fact, when they got out west, they found the same type of harassment and encroachment that they experienced east of the Mississippi as well. Well, maybe worse, too, because not only were white settlers west of the Mississippi encroaching like we talked about in episode one, they were already Plains Indians. They were like, Whoa, whoa, who are these people? I know they look like us, but we're different. Right? And the white sellers are like, what are you talking about? We're encroaching on your land, too. So it was not friendly in any way, this arrival. Plus, also after the War of 1812 and the Seminole wars, the US. Didn't have any European powers on the continent any longer, which meant two things. One, the Indians weren't a useful buffer between the US. And, say, the British. They weren't needed in that respect any longer. Which put them in a very shaky position. And then, secondly, there was no European power that the Indians could ally themselves with to check American aggression against they had done with both Britain and Spain. So after that and during this Indian removal process, part of the reason why it was so rough and brutal was because there was no reason, outside of anything moral, to check American aggression in this process. Yeah. So things got worse. A bad situation got worse right here in Georgia, again with the Cherokee Nation. They held these lotteries between 18 five and 1832. They had seven lotteries, basically, where you could a white male, if you're over 18 years old, could buy a lottery ticket for $4, about $100 today. And that would give you a chance, if you were picked to buy 160 acre tract of land that was not theirs. Right. That kind of says it all. Yes. And a lot of those parcels still exist. You can trace the land parcels back to the original lottery today we call them subdivisions. Yeah. You said about three quarters of these parcels in Georgia you can still trace back. That's amazing. So the Chickasaws were up next. Chuck, they were sick of being harassed by white settlers and said, we're out of here. We'll take the government up on its offer. Here are all of our lands east of the Mississippi. We'll take some land west of the Mississippi. And the government said, Great, here's a treaty. Let's sign it. Slap each other on the back, maybe have a cigar. And that's that. Yes. And the chickens are all got out to Indian territory and found they didn't have any land out there. They had to negotiate with the Chocolate, who got out there a year or two earlier to buy some of their land. Yeah. What about a raw deal? Well, it is a raw deal. And it's interesting that some of the I mean, I don't think word was getting back, but you could see a little bit of the wisdom of, well, hey, the writing is on the wall, so at least we can get out there early and claim some land of our own. And that's what happened. The Chocolate had claimed this land, and then the Chickasaw had to come out there and deal with them. Well, I think they had been given actual territory by the federal government. Right. But it didn't pan out. They hadn't actually gotten that land right. It wasn't like you said. The War Department just sort of washed their hands of it already. So then you also have the Seminole as well, right? The Seminole took a different tag. They were definitely the ones that were the biggest thorn in the side of the Indian removal process. Yeah, for sure. So you remember back in, I think Andrew Jackson fought the first seminal war. He did not win the first Seminole war. The Seminoles were still there. And although he did get a lot of land from the Spanish in Florida. The Seminoles ultimately came out on top. The second Seminole War took place when the Seminoles, a very small faction that were prepared to leave, went against the wishes of the tribe in general and negotiated secretly with the federal government to seed the land. And the rest of the seminal tribe said, no, they didn't represent us. We're not leaving. And the federal government said, oh, yeah, we're going to come down and invade. And the second seminal war went from 1835 to 1842. Yes. Man, seven years. That's tough. Yeah. Thousands and thousands of people died. It was a war, a straight up war between the Seminoles and the federal government. And again the Seminoles won. Yeah. You said here in today's dollars, the government spent about $2 billion fighting the war. About a billion. Oh, a billion dollars. Okay. Yeah. Sorry about that. So that's number two. The third seminal war was from 1855 to 1858. And that was the last attempt of the US. To say, please get out of here on that. Please, but get the heck out of here. And that failed. And so eventually, the Seminole got paid pretty good money, the hold outs there for their land. Yeah. I mean, if there's a success story in all of this, the Seminoles, but yeah, it also resulted in the deaths of a lot of people. Yeah. So this next part is sort of sets up to play out over kind of the remaining years of the trailer tiers. And there are some important names in here that you should take note of. Get out your pad and your pen. Exactly. Don't literally take a note, especially if you're driving. It's a good point. So the Cherokee, they sort of did a similar thing that the Seminoles did when a small group of people make this treaty that the rest of the tribe doesn't necessarily agree with. Right. And this time it was called the Treaty of New Ecotoa. I thought it was Ecatoa at first, too, but then I stopped and realized I think it's Echitoa Echotoa. I think so. All right, we'll go with Echeoa. I like that better. Anyway, so there are about 20 Cherokee leaders, and the names they were headed at this point at Chief John Ridge, his brother, Major Ridge Stan how do you pronounce that last name? I think Wati. Watie and Elias Boudino. Nice. And again, a lot of these names are very Anglo because they had assimilated at this point. Anglo or French? Well, yes, some of them were Buddha, I think. Definitely French. Cherry so there were about 20 of them in all, though, and those were the most notable, and they became known as the Treaty Party. They were the ones that met with federal agents, negotiated this treaty, where they would give up this land in exchange for kind of the same old story, the cycle that happens again and again and again. So imagine if you were a Cherokee and you were like, we're not leaving. We're staying. We're going to fight this in the courts. We're going to take our guns to them if we have to. We're not leaving our land. And you find out that 20 Cherokee leaders went secretly behind the back of the rest of the Cherokee Nation, the other 180 members of the Eastern tribe, and secretly negotiated away that land that you had just vowed to protect and never leave. There's a lot of anger. Yes, rightfully so. The ones that decided that they were going to stay were led by Chief John Ross. He was a very powerful chief in the east. Yeah. For decades. He had been negotiating to that point fairly successfully with the federal government saying, okay, if you're going to take this land, we're going to sell it to you. You're going to pay through the nose for it. Even though they still gave them a pretty fair price, like $4 and something per acre when the going rate was about 15. But this was much more money $20 million, I think, in 18, $30, then the government was prepared to spend, which was zero. It was, no, you give us the land and you can move out west instead. So they were negotiating a treaty, or John Ross was, with the blessing of the Cherokee Council and the Cherokee people as a whole. And one of the other parts of that negotiation was that any Cherokee would be recognized as a full US. Citizen. Yeah. It sounds like you had a couple of different versions of the offer. One is you can have all this land for $20 million, or you can have some of it for $4 million. Let us keep some. And whoever wants to stay can become full citizens with all the rights afforded to a full citizen. Right. So he was actually in the middle of making what was not a bad deal for his people now and again, and he had the full the blessing of the Cherokee Council to do this. And did he not know at all that the Treaty Party was doing this? From what I understand, no, it was a secret negotiation. And they were happening concurrently. Right. Oh, man. So the John Ross faction was negotiating for about $4 an acre. The Treaty Party negotiated for about a dollar five an acre, or about 5% of the value of the land. And the government said, we'll go with you guys. Right. They signed the treaty. The Cherokee, when they found out about it, basically signed a petition saying, that's an illegal treaty. We don't condone that. They got something like 17,000 signatures. There are only 18,000 Cherokees in the east. And the Senate still ratified it. Yeah, they said that. See all those names? It's very impressive. Let me rip that into two pieces, and we're going to ratify this, and it becomes a federal statute. And this kind of is what really set everything in motion for the final removal of the Cherokee. Yeah. You Cherokee now have three years to vacate your land. And if you don't, well, let's just say you should vacate your land within three years is what the federal government said. But they still, for the most part, didn't leave. And we'll take a break here and we'll talk about that process after this. 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And if you are a victim of identity theft, a dedicated US based restoration specialist will work to fix it. Identity thefts have had it easy for far too long. Now finally, it's your turn. Just remember, no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. But everyone can save up to 25% off their first year by going to LifeLock. comStuff that's LifeLock.com stuff for 25% off your first year. LifeLock identity theft protection starts here. All right, so we're back. The treaty had been signed in 1835 against the will of the Cherokee people. Yeah, they had three years to get I was going to say get out of Dodge, but man, why do I keep saying that? Get out of Cherokee. And then I was about to say they had three years to play ball, but they'd be like, what does play ball mean? Well, it hasn't been invented yet either. No, that's true. Get with it, Chuck. Three years later, only 2000 of the 18,000 had migrated west. And so President Martin Van Buren, who, as we saw earlier, kind of just continued to carry out Jackson's policies. Yeah, Jackson was a two term president and the Van Buren presidency just made it twelve, basically. Yeah. Twelve years. Yeah, he said. All right, well, here's what we're going to do because Jackson is telling me I have to do this. We're going to send in federal troops and you hold outs in Georgia and the Carolinas. We have a general named Winfield Scott. He's going to bring about 7000 men in there and he's going to ask you nicely to leave and that he doesn't want bloodshed. All while tapping on his sidearm, on his hip. Exactly. Which is basically what happened. Yeah. He had a quote here. Do you want to read that? He read a statement. He said, the blood of the white man or the blood of the red man may be spilt. And if spilt, however accidentally, it may be impossible for the discreet and humane among you or among us to prevent a general war and carnage. Think of this, my Cherokee brethren, I am an old warrior and have been present at many a scene of slaughter. But spare me, I beseech you, the horror of witnessing the destruction of the Cherokees. In other words, don't make me kill all of you. And let's think about what we will. Right. We have 7000 men behind me. Yeah. Think about where this came from. We want your land. You have to leave. That's that and now it's gotten to the point where we're going to kill you if you don't leave. Yes. And when they came and forced them to leave finally in 1838, at gunpoint, they said, you have to leave now. And it was not gather your stuff and leave. It was, stop what you're doing and leave. Most of the people were not able to get their supplies together. Some were able to grab blankets. A lot of them were barefoot, and they were herded out of their houses. Yeah. You said there was one case where there was a small child who had died in the night that they were preparing for burial, and they turned guns on and said, no, no, you can't even do that. Get out. And they had to leave this body of a child behind by itself. Plus, they also had to suffer the indignity of watching white settlers loot their houses as they were being marched away. Oh, yeah. The people that have been encroaching all these years had free rain at this point. It was open season. So the federal government had built 31 posts around the Carolinas and Georgia, which were basically like temporary holding stations before the forced migration began. And like, a third of the people who died during this removal process among the Cherokee died in these posts. They died of exposure. They died of hunger. There was, like, disease ripping through these things. It was just a terrible situation, even just to start. Yeah. And as far as what's going on today, regardless of how you feel about deportation, just look into deportation facilities in 2017. Are they pretty bad? I mean, people aren't dying of cholera, but just go look it up. Make your own judgment. I'll say that. Okay. Don't want to get too political here. All right, so there are a couple of routes here that the Cherokee took to get to Oklahoma. Basically, you could go on a boat or you can walk. Right. Maybe if you're old and frail, you might be in a wagon, but basically you're going to walk. Yeah. The draft animals were for carrying supplies. The wagons were just for the elderly and maybe like little kids. But yeah, you're going to have to walk in again. A lot of these people were removed from their homes and not given even enough time to get their shoes. So they were walking barefoot 1200 miles. Yeah. And I think about 15,000 by foot. And about 3000 were fortunate enough, I guess you could say, to go by steamship. Yeah. And we should say also that the experience of this is not the same for everybody. Right. There were plenty of very wealthy Cherokees who arranged for their own passage west, including one guy, rich Joe Van. I don't know where he made his money, but he was a wealthy Cherokee who traveled privately on his own steamship. Yeah. I mean, if he owned a steamship, he's doing pretty well. Sure. And again, you point out in the article this is just another reminder of how uncultured some of these Native Americans had become at this point. And they were still like, now, man, you're ostensibly living like a wealthy white person, but you're still Indians to get out. Right. Again, the overlooked group in this too seems to be the African American slaves. Again. Some Cherokee own slaves. And the slaves were made to go on the Trail of Tears with them as well. Yeah, or forced to. The ones who didn't have to go west were forced to relocate from all over the colonies, largely down south, to support the cotton industry. That was a big deal. So this land that opened up immediately became like cotton land and it created the biggest agricultural economy in the world. The American South had the biggest, largest, most robust agricultural economy in the entire world during this period as a result of this land opening up. But part of that required this slave labor. And so the slave trade increased dramatically during this period as well. So the forced removal of Native Americans led to a forced diaspora of African Americans into that land that had just been vacated where they were forced to work. Yeah. It's an overlooked part of history, for sure. I mean, we all understand, we know about slavery and we know that it happened and it was in the south or whatever, but this period is where it just steps up exponentially as a direct result of the forced removal. Yeah. I mean, like hundreds of thousands of acres of land all of a sudden that needed tending to. Millions of acres. Millions and millions of acres. Yeah. Which is a lot of hundreds of thousands. It'd be like dozens of acres. About 40 million dozen. So back to the westward Trail of Tears. This first migration was in the summer of 1838. And I don't know if anyone out there has ever walked from Georgia to Oklahoma at all. I wonder if that's like, a thing if anyone ever does that, hike the Trail of Tears. Yeah. Jeez, I don't know. I'll bet somebody does. Probably, like in an awareness campaign or something. Yeah, I could see that. So it was in the summer heat. It's not forgiving in any way. A lot of people died on that first wave, and I don't think we mentioned that chief John Ross, he was the last of the Cherokee of his group to leave. To pick up and leave. Yeah. The federal government was doing such a disastrously bad job of overseeing this migration. The John Ross went to General Scott and said, please, if we're going to migrate, let me oversee the remaining migrations, because you guys are botching this. And Scott actually said, okay, fine, you can oversee the migrations, despite Andrew Jackson angrily writing like, no, that's a terrible idea. Do not do that. You can't let the Indians oversee their own forced migration, you dummy. Right. Scott still did it. He stood up to the political pressure. And so the Trail of Tears, historically, what you think of the official Trail of Tears started at the Rattlesnake Springs, Tennessee, which is where you said is that middle Tennessee? I think it's middle, like, around Memphis, maybe? Isn't Memphis in the center? No, no. Memphis is what? Nashville, then? I think it's around Nashville. Okay. Tennessee is my family's from Tennessee. Where are you, Chocolate? Well, Mississippi before Tennessee, but mainly from west Tennessee. Okay. Which has got probably more in common with Arkansas than Nashville. Sure. You're like, maybe you've heard of my cousin. He was falsely accused of killing some boys back in the Memphis three. Yeah, no, not a cousin, but they were in Arkansas. West Memphis, Arkansas, right. Yeah. It's confusing. It's not that confusing. Well, I mean West, Memphis, Arkansas. You hear Memphis, you generally think of Tennessee. That's East Memphis. We should do a show in Elvis. Well, we do one on Graceland. Yeah. And I think that's when I pointed out, too, that God bless my dear departed grandmother, but she was of that camp, like, oh, Elvis, he's a poor thing. He does. His doctors killed him. I was like, Grandmother, he was a big fat junkie. Died on the toilet. Made some great music, though. All right, so Elvis aside, rattlesnake Springs, Tennessee is where the Trail of Tears officially the route kind of began, and it went through. And this is something that I never considered. Let's take a break. That's a good little teaser there. Okay. And we'll talk about the impact it had on these towns that it went through. Okay. All right. I teased that I had never realized this, but the old story you heard about white people lining up in their towns to watch the Native Americans pass through and shed a tear for them, which is bunk. Or maybe one person did, probably, yes. But it had a big like, you can't move 18,000 people, and that was just. The Cherokee. Right. There's a big economic boom that can happen when you go through a town with that many people. Right. And they went through many towns. The government spent $2.15 billion in 2015 money moving the Cherokee. And all of that was for things like supplies and stuff like that. Sure. I think it was Arkansas. Their entire agricultural economy shifted from the cotton boom that was going on in the rest of the south to growing corn strictly to supply the federal government for this migration. Yeah. The Trail of Tears itself had its own economy, its own moving, portable economy. Yeah. A lot of cottage industries grew up where townspeople would get into, like, boarding and ferrying, helping carry supplies, or moving people across bodies of water. Some were exploitive. Sure. Not surprisingly. Like, there were people who said, well, this is my land and I'm going to charge each of you a fee for crossing over it and then an exit fee when you get to the other side, kind of stuff. Yeah. And some of the towns would I guess, despite the fact that it could have been a bit of a temporary economic boom, refused to even let it happen. Like, you can't have passage through my town even though it's easier on you. You got to go around this entire town. Yeah. Cape Giroudo. Did that in Missouri. They said it's way easier to cross the Mississippi through town, but there's another crossing 2 miles up and it's treacherous, but you got to take that one. Yeah. So some of this was documented by white soldiers who were overseeing, I guess, from the War Department. Should we read a couple of these accounts? Well, yeah, I think we should. This one in particular is from John G. Burnett, who in 1890, as he was an old man dying, he was interviewed by a newspaper for his experiences because he had been a soldier along the trailers with the Cherokee. All right. I'll read one of these. I saw the helpless Cherokees arrested and dragged from their homes and driven at the bayonet point into the stockades. And in the chill of a drizzling rain on an October morning, I saw them loaded like cattle or sheep into 645 wagons and started toward the west. One can never forget the sadness and solemnity of that morning. Chief John Ross led in prayer, and when the bugle sounded and the wagon started rolling, many of the children rose to their feet and waved their little hands goodbye to their mountain homes, knowing they were leaving them forever. Many of these helpless people did not have blankets and many of them have been driven from their home barefooted. On the morning of November the 17th, we've encountered a terrific sleet and snowstorm with freezing temperatures. From that day until we reached the end of the fateful journey on March 26, 1839, the sufferings of the Cherokees were awful. The Trail of the Exiles was a trail of death. They had to sleep in the wagons and on the ground without fire. And I have known as many as 22 of them to die in one night of pneumonia due to ill treatment, cold and exposure. Among this number was the beautiful Christian wife of Chief John Ross. This noble hearted woman died a martyr to childhood giving her only blanket for the protection of a sick child. She rode thinly clad to a blinding sleet and snow storm, developed pneumonia and died in the still hours of a bleak winter night with her head resting on Lieutenant Greg's saddle blanket. So clearly, some of these soldiers were kind of haunted with the task that they were given. Yeah. Because this guy, John Burnett was on the trail in 1838. This is 1890. He's still giving this impassioned account of it. Man there was another witness who estimated that the Cherokee buried 14 or 15 of their people at every stopping place. And this is along this 1200 miles trail, which they did about 10 miles a day by foot. And as a result, about 4000 of the 17,000 Cherokee who moved during this migration died along the way. Yeah. And again, just like the cycle, when they got there, they were not met with open arms. Remember the old settlers that we talked about from the very beginning? The very first ones to go out west? They did not take kindly to their arrival. No. Because remember, they formed basically a different tribe of Cherokee out there. Yeah. Like they were their own tribe that said, you know what? All bets are off. This is our land. So when they showed up, the Eastern Cherokees were like, yeah, but there's a lot more of us than there are of you guys. So we're in charge now. Yeah. And I think one of the more interesting things we mentioned when I said to take note with that new Echitoa treaty with those 20 or so 20 leaders leaders that sign this treaty against the will of John Ross I mean, that stuff was in stone. Now, this faction that was created with that carried through for decades and decades. Right. That same line carried over out west as well. Right. So allegiances form between the Treaty Party supporters and the John Ross supporters. And ultimately, John Ross was able to consolidate power out there and he became the chief of all of the Cherokees now that they were all out west, the combined tribe. Yeah. And once he consolidated power, he gave it a day or two and then he said, okay, it's time to have the Treaty Party members killed. Yeah. He had vengeance on his mind, for sure. So he dispatched in one night on June 22, 1839, he dispatched some assassins. They went and found the principal signers we mentioned Major Ridge, his brother John Ridge and Elias Budno. And they all died that night. But Stan Wattie interestingly escaped. And I don't think we said it that faction and that divide between the nation was going on for decades. It lasted into the Civil War, and the new Echeto supporters supported the south, the others opposed the north. So the divide between the Union and the Confederacy also fell along that new Echo, a treaty party and John Ross supporters line still, and they fought each other as Confederate and Union soldiers. Yeah. And actually, Stan Wattie became a general in the Confederacy. Yes. He survived the assassination attempt. Right. He got out because he was worn by the Reverend Samuel Rochester, maybe where's your Shire? And I think we mentioned him earlier, he was a missionary who originally filed that suit against Georgia on behalf of the Cherokee that went to the Supreme Court. Right. And he warned Wati. Wati got out, went on to fight in the Civil War, and he was the last general to surrender in the Confederacy. The last one? Yeah. Not the last Cherokee general. The last general of the Confederacy to surrender. Yeah. So he very interesting story there. So overall, Chuck, between 1830 and 1850 I said it was a decade earlier, I think the 1830s were the worst of it. But between those 20 years, the US. Government moved more than 100,000 Native Americans east of the Mississippi to the west of the Mississippi. And not just the Five Civilized tribes, not just the Southeastern or Eastern tribes. Northern tribes. Like basically everyone who was living east of the Mississippi between Canada and the Gulf of Mexico was pushed away across the Mississippi. And it was the first big, massive movement of Native Americans to what would be basically a sweeping motion by America, by the federal government, from one edge of the coast to the other, trying to sweep the continent clean of Native Americans. And at first it was, here you go to this other area where Native Americans are, and you can deal with it. And then eventually they started running more out of land, more and more, and extermination became more of a policy than removal. Yeah. Because remember we had said that Thomas Jefferson said, well, the Mississippi River is clearly going to be our western border? Sure. They went on to later say, remember when we said that we would kind of like all the land and we're going to take it? And in response, finally, it was 2009, I think, before any official apology was proffered for the Trail of Tears. And it wasn't just the Trail of Tears. It covered everything that had ever been done to Native Americans by the federal government. Was summed up with an apology for, quote, the many instances of violence, maltreatment, and neglect inflicted on Native peoples by citizens of the United States. Back to business. Yeah. And that was drafted a few years prior to that by Kansas Senator Sam Brownback and signed into law by President Barack Obama. Right. And then I guess the closest thing to an apology that Georgia ever gave was back in 16, Georgia adopted the Cherokee rose as the official state flower. And according to Cherokee legend, the flower grew from the tears of the mothers who cried for their children along the way. And the flower still grows along that official trail of tears today, all the way into eastern Oklahoma. Yeah. And that trail is protected federally, for now at least. Yeah. So that's trailer tears, man. Tough one, tough two. Yes. If you want to know more about the trailer tiers, just type those words into your favorite search engine and start learning. And since I said start learning, it's time for listener mail. This is a correction about the Holy Roman empire. Hey guys, I know you like to get things right even after the fact. I thought I'd help you out a bit. Listening to the death tax episode picked up on something you said in this and at least one other recent episode. When you mentioned the holy Roman empire, it's pretty clear you're referring to Rome during the early part of the first millennium Ce, but it's actually an incorrect moniker for that state. The Holy Roman empire, as it's referred to in history, was a collection of central European, traditionally Germanic states, though briefly some of Italy early on under a loose rule by the holy Roman emperor, not the pope who was ruling the Papal states when the holy Roman empire was in its early existence. Origins of the holy Roman empire began in the 9th century, followed by the division of Charlemagne's Frankish kingdom into the three partitions given to each of his three sons, the easternmost eventually becoming the Holy Roman empire. Duh. Without getting into too much specific history, I'll tell you that it's roughly 1000 year run is filled with fascinating events and political structure unique in world history. Catholic reformation and the 30 years war impacted and influenced heavily the political structure of the Holy Roman empire and its member states, for one. And Chris, Ortloff buddy, you are a student of history, clearly. Yes. Very well done and thank you for that nice name dropping of Charlemagne too, Chris. Yeah, if you want a school just like Chris did, we love that kind of thing, especially if it's nice and pleasant. You can tweet to us. I'm at Josh Clark and at S-Y-S kpodcast chuck's at Charlesw chuckbryant on Facebook. And that stuff you should know on Facebook, right? Yes. You can send us both an email to stuffpodcast@howstoughfworks.com and as always, join us at our home on the web stuffyshow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howtofworks.com. Hey everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer school's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime four days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon music come in. There's a perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or if you're brave enough late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, My Favorite Murder and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today. You want your kid eating the best nutrition, right? And by that we mean your dog. 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http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podcasts.howstuffworks.com/hsw/podcasts/sysk/2017-06-06-sysk-coelacanths-final.mp3 | How Coelacanths Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-coelacanths-work | Coelacanths are incredibly interesting as far as fish go. For one, they were thought to have gone the way of the dinosaur, along with the dinosaur. They also give birth to live fish and tend to dwell more than 800 feet below the ocean's surface. And this | Coelacanths are incredibly interesting as far as fish go. For one, they were thought to have gone the way of the dinosaur, along with the dinosaur. They also give birth to live fish and tend to dwell more than 800 feet below the ocean's surface. And this | Tue, 06 Jun 2017 16:33:31 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2017, tm_mon=6, tm_mday=6, tm_hour=16, tm_min=33, tm_sec=31, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=157, tm_isdst=0) | 38640816 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school's out, the sun shining, the daylight's longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, my Favorite Murder from exactly right media, my Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilguera and Georgia Hard Stark, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite Murder. One week early on Amazon music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. Picture this, friends. You could be packing a carry on for a trip to Hawaii when you realize you're going to need a bigger bag. But it's cool because you booked your flight with your City Advantage Platinum Select card. So you can check a bag for free on domestic travel and still have room for those souvenirs. And surprise, those souvenirs also earned you Advantage Miles. Actually, you earned Advantage Miles and loyalty points with each swipe. So let's start dreaming about your next next adventure. This could be you, and you could be anywhere with the City Advantage Platinum Select Card. Learn more@city.com adventure and travel on with cityadvantage. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetoforkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W, chuck Bryant, jerry jerome Rowland. The whole house stuff works. Gang. Here to present to you stuff you should know. All three of us. How are you doing? I'm good. Yeah, I'm a little caffeinated, I should warn you. A little bit like when teeth are about to just come right out of my face. That's not good. We did a video about Seala camps one time. Yeah. Like, was it this Day in history about when they were discovered? Yes. I ran across it because Smacked is familiar to me. And the constant fear we have of recording an entire podcast over is sort of always there. Yeah. The fear that sometimes comes true. Yeah. So I definitely went back and looked and I was like, I knew we did something. Yeah, we were trapped in a shipping container. Right. I didn't watch it. I didn't either. It's all enough to say, oh, yeah, I remember that one. That really weird. Weird thing we did. But this is really cool. I think I do, too. Seal camps. Well, they're interesting, despite what the House Stuff Works article would lead you to believe. Yeah, it was a little thin. A little bit. It was all right. Okay. But luckily, the rest of the Internet is there for us. Right? Thanks. Especially the Smithsonian. And Mental Floss for this one. Right? Yeah, that Mental Floss article was kind of neat, actually. It was. So you want to go back to the beginning? Actually, the second beginning, maybe? Well, I don't know what you're talking about now. Okay, well, follow me. We'll go back to the very beginning. We'll go back to something about 400 million years ago okay. During the Devonian period, which is aka. The rise of the fish. The age of the fish. Right. And in this Devonian period, there's a lot of stuff going on. Things have been swimming around for a while on Earth. There's a nice atmosphere that's developed. The things in the ocean are starting to say, what's out there? I want to see what's on land. Yeah. I can just crawl out and see. Yeah. I want to taste clover. So they start trying. And during this period, there was the progression from the sea to the land. And one of those things that was starting to develop legs to get on the land was called the silkanth. Yeah. Which, A, it means hollow spine, which we'll get to. There's a reason for that. Right. And B. It's spelled C-O-E-L-A-C-A-N-T-H which is not how you would think it might be spelled. No. Or pronounced rather. Right. Either one. But it's celechamp. It is silicon, and what it is is a fish that is, like you said, been around for a long, long time. It's kind of funny looking, and we'll get into all the physical characteristics that make it unusual in a second. But it is notable mainly for the fact that everyone thought it was gone forever right. Until it was suddenly discovered. This thing that swam with the dinosaurs was discovered a new in the 1930s, and then again a little bit later on yeah. Because it pops up for the first time around 407,000,000 years ago, I think I said, and then it just drops off 80 million years ago. So they said, well, a lot of stuff went the way of the dinosaur around the time the dinosaurs went away. So that's probably what happened to the seal of Cam. So it was quite a big surprise in the 1930s when a trawler that was out fishing, a trawler called the Nareen, which is captain by Hendrick Guston off the coast of South Africa, came in, and as was Captain Goosein's Want, he contacted the director of the local museum in East London, a woman named Ms. Marjorie Courtney Latimer. And she used to come over and look at the fish loads this guy would bring in because they were buddies. Yeah. And he gave her a call like normal and said, I got a load. Do you want to come look at it? And she was like, It's two days before Christmas, and it's blazing hot out. Don't forget we're in South Africa at the time. And she's like, I don't feel like it. But the world was saved. The world of Ichthyology was saved this day, because this lady, Marjorie Courtney Latimer, was so nice that she decided to go look at the fish anyway, just to wish the captain and his crew a Merry Christmas. So she takes a look at this fish. And here is her quote as she recounted it wasn't a quote at the time, her quote at the time. It's probably a South African expletive. But she said later, I picked away the layers of slime to reveal the most beautiful fish I had ever seen. And, of course, only a fish lover can find this thing truly beautiful. Yeah, because it's kind of ugly. It is. It was 5ft long, a pale, a mauvey blue with faint flecks of white spots. It had an iridescent silver blue green sheen all over. It was covered in hard scales, and it had four limb like fins and a strange little puppy dog tail. Not literally, of course, which would be great, though, actually, that's the dog fish that has that. It was such a beautiful fish. More like a big China ornament but I didn't know what it was. And it was pretty faithful that she was called in to look at this thing, because it ended up being one of the most important zoological finds of history, probably of the 20th century at least. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. This woman's curiosity, something in her said, this is weird. This is unusual. This is something worth looking into. So she took it with her. This thing was, like, 5ft long, just under 2 meters by 100. And how many pounds? \u00a3127. This is a significant fish. Yeah. And Ms. Courtney Latimer talked her way into a cab with it. She took a cab back to the East London Museum with this fish stuffed in the back seat, and she took it to the taxidermist and had it stuffed. Unfortunately, the taxidermist wasn't completely aware of how to preserve a fish for identification. And throughout the skeleton and the gills, which are what you need to idea fish, apparently. Well, she probably should have said something. Well, this is no ordinary mount. Right? She probably should have, or maybe she did, and he just ignored her. He's, like, not going to get bossed around by woman 38. So she contacts a guy named JLB. Smith, who is an ichthyologist. He's the head of the ichthyology department at a university in Grahamstown and PhD in chemistry. He's a smart guy, and he's the local fish expert, as far as she knows. Yes. And they're pals. And so she said, hey, I've got this weird looking fish. And then Smith, his quote was, I told myself sternly not to be a fool, but there was something about that sketch, and apparently it was sketched. She sent him a sketch of the fish to begin with that seized upon my imagination and told me that this was something very far beyond the usual run of fishes in our seas. And luckily, even though the fish was, I guess, mounted in a traditional form, which, like you said, takes away how you can identify it, she was able to preserve some of the scales, and somehow from these scales, he was able to say, this is a cola cancellance. Right. Well, that's what he said at first. And she pronounced selachant. He's like, oh, apparently he said when he saw that scale and identified it positively as a seal of camp, his quote was, if I'd met a dinosaur in the street, I wouldn't have been more astonished. I like that cat. A little hyperbole there, but I like it. This is seriously this is like the zoological find of the century and would be for the next 60 something years. Right. Yeah. So he very magnanimously said, you know what? I'm going to name this thing after you. And he named it as a new species, latimerria chilomny. Well, obviously her name is Courtney Latimer. Courtney Hyphen. Latimer. Yes. And it was found in the Chalomna River at the mouth of it, where it hits the coast off of the eastern coast of South Africa. So that's a great name. It's perfect. Yeah. It really puts it in a place in time. So they have now discovered this thing. They realized that they have a big find on their hands. They thought this thing had long been extinct by tens of millions of years. And so they started to research and try and learn more about this fish, which is no ordinary fish. No, but I mean, this is right? Yeah. And it was the only one that had been found for another 60 years. Yeah. I mean, there's only so much you can find from a stuffed fish. But it did prove, because they had been caught alive, it wasn't like they pulled up a fossil or a dead fish. It had been alive when it was caught. Yeah. I think it was attached to another fish. Really? Like potentially trying to eat it. Okay. Which is one of the well, not unusual, but interesting things about the cele cant, is that it eats meat. Well, there's a lot of unusual things about the sea ligand. Yeah. So fast forward another 60 years exactly. In Indonesia, which is on the other side of the Indian Ocean. The eastern side of the Indian Ocean. It was actually first seen in 1997 by a biologist named Mark Erdman, who was in Indonesia doing his PhD dissertation, and he saw a seal of camp in the market. That's crazy. That's a celicant. What's that doing here? So apparently he put a bit of a bounty out on it with the locals, and within a year, by 1998, they had brought him a freshly caught one. Yeah. Which is quite a task. Yes. Finding one stall extinct fish. Yeah. It's a big one. Well, and we'll get to a little bit why it's even tougher than you would think, too. Sure. So the one that Erdman found was brown, right? Yeah. It was a little bit different color. Right. The one like Courtney Latimer described, those are known to be like steel blue. This is brown. A little smaller than the one that Courtney Latimer found. And so eventually, when Erdman got his hands on that one, he described it as a new species. Yeah. It turns out that at one point, hundreds of millions of years ago, there were potentially over 100 different varieties of this fish, and they came in all shapes and sizes. These obviously were pretty big, but there were some that were smaller and faster, basically just kind of a wide variety. And as far as we know, I think. Are these the only two known survivors? Yes, so far. Yeah. The one that Courtney Latimer founder known as the West Indian Ocean seal of Camp. Those are the blue ones. They're typically found off of the east coast of Africa, south of Kenya, I believe. Yeah. Down to about the Cormaros Islands. I think that they're actually also known as the Cormarose Island Sea Lacante, because that seems to be where they inhabit the most, or the highest density of them is. Yeah. And some of the weirdos that have well, we assume that they've been extinct, but you never know. One of them was toothless and over 10ft long. That was the megalocampus. Very appropriately, some of them said, Forget you, ocean, I'm going to go to the freshwater. So there were actually freshwater seala camps at one time, and like I said, some of them were slow and ambushed prey, some were smaller and faster, but they've pretty much universally all been predators, from what I've seen. Right. And the two species that are alive today that we know of, aside from the megalith sea LIQUENT, tend to be a little bigger than the extinct species, which I read is a good example of why they shouldn't be called living fossils, which is what they're frequently called. Yeah, that's Darwin's term for something that basically never changed. Right. And they've actually studied the genome of the seala camp and found that they very much haven't changed and kind of the main reason is they haven't had to. They've kind of stayed in the same places, and when you stay in the same places and you eat the same stuff, then maybe you don't change so much. I read the opposite of that, that they have changed enough, that they have been evolving. And a good example of that is that they're bigger than they used to be. Oh, interesting. Yeah. But the two species that are alive today, they have traced their genomes back and decided that they've been separated for several million years at least. Yeah. This one, they finally got the full genome and they said that it does indeed match the fish's appearance of slower evolution in a journal published in Nature, because they have a slower rate of substitution. Got you basically the doctor. Well, yeah, I guess she is a doctor. Just sounded weird to say that. The doctor, the researcher who is also a doctor, she said it may reflect the fact that they do not need to evolve quickly because they've lived in relatively unchanging environment where there are a few predators and they basically haven't needed to change over time like other organisms. Well, that brings up another thing, too. There's a big question. Why would they just drop off of the fossil record if they've been around this whole time? If they didn't just go extinct 80 or 65 million years ago? The only explanation I've seen is that the places where the fossils turned up were areas conducive to fossilization. Like there was a lot of sediment that could turn bone into rock. And then the areas that the living species live at now are not conducive to that kind of thing. Possibly because they're mostly living around volcanic rock that doesn't necessarily produce fossils. You want to take a break? Yeah, let's take a break and we'll get back and talk a little bit about this funny fish. It's 2022, and things look different. Like doctors visits, for example. Sometimes you don't have to go into a doctor's office to be treated for nonemergency situations, like a sinus infection or allergy. And that's why teladoc gives you the chance to connect with board certified physicians right from your home via phone or video. That's right. 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Find Halo at specialty pet stores and online. All right, so we talked a little bit about what makes the Seal of Camp such an interesting critter. Can a critter be a fish? Yes. Have you heard of the cuttlefish? That's a critter if there ever was one. Yeah, a cutley critter. So here are some remarkable things about the Seal of Cant. They can live as deep I mean, they're deep water dwellers. They can live as deep as 2000 or more feet. But I think they generally live about 500 to 800ft in what they call the Twilight Zone. Right. Which is still pretty deep. Remember our cave episode? Yeah, that had the same thing. Remember there was, like, organisms that live in the dark, organisms that live in the twilight zone and organisms that live in the lighted zone. Yeah. These guys live in that threshold between light and dark in the ocean and they apparently are nocturnal hunters. Yeah. They come out at night, kind of stay hidden. Most of these habitats are caves that they tend to stay in but there's one off of Tasmania that do not live in caves and so they have officially been placed on an endangered list because they don't have the protection from by catch that these other cave dwellers have. Right, that makes sense. Yeah. So the average day in the life of a sealakant, at least the cave dwelling species, during the daytime they're hanging out in a cave. They'll hang out in a cave. I've seen between up to twelve to 16 other sealing camps have a coffee. Yeah. Just talk about their night and then as night falls they'll leave their caves and they'll go hunting. And like you said, they're carnivorous predators. They do that passive by catch thing for the most part right. Where they let the current bring the food to them but they just basically hang out and wait for a cuttlefish. It's one thing they eat squids, other cephalopods, some fishes but they seem to not show aggression toward one another from what I understand. Yeah. And while they are passive hunters they do have an unusual feature which is like we said, one of many. But they have what's called a rostro Oregon which just means it's in the nasal region and they're snout and it's filled with a jelly like substance that they think and they think most of this stuff, I mean they've done a lot of good setting but for something so rare you can't be super sure. But they think that it detects low level electrical signals and frequencies from prey. Yes. Like a shark or a ray. Yeah. It's an electrosensory organ where when living tissue contacts water it can make an electrical impulse that can be picked up. Yeah. And this cool mental floss article, I think eleven things about the CLI lacamp, I can't remember how it was put but just eleven interesting features. Eleven Fishy facts. Unfortunately that's why I forgot it. Title aside, it's an interesting article and one of the things that they don't know why they do, and I have a feeling it has to do with that electrical frequency is they'll swim nose down for up to two full minutes which is weird for a fish. They're just kind of hovering in place headstanding. Right. Yeah. And I guess if they have that nasal bag of jelly that helps them locate fish I would imagine that's what they're doing there. Right. I imagine it like tanto, like holding a railroad track. Yeah. I think it's the same thing. Basically when they catch their prey they eat them and they can eat stuff that's way bigger than them because again this is unique to seal. The cats among living things. They have a hinge in their cranium that allows basically their head is convertible. The top of their skull can retract, allowing their mouth to open really wide so they can eat a large cuttlefish. Yeah. And I think that feature also allows it to their mouth to close with much greater force with extreme prejudice. Yeah, like when it's unhinged emotionally and physically, it can really close their mouth super hard. They hate themselves for eating cuddles. They just can't stop. So those are just a couple of the features. Another is, and we mentioned earlier that the name literally translates into hollow spine. This is because they have what's called a notochord, which is a hollow pressurized tube filled with oil where a lot of fish start this way and then they'll eventually get a spine. But this doesn't go away. Right. And that's just fish and vertebrates. Apparently there's a lot of mammals that go through this. I think possibly even humans in the embryo. And the sela cancer says, I'm good with the notor cord. I'm going to stick here. Yeah, I'm going to stop here. Which is strange. It is strange. You want to hear some more strangeness? I could do this all day. Well, it's a strange fish sealakanth. We don't quite understand how they reproduce and the reason why is because males don't seem to have any sex parts. They don't have junk. They think possibly males grow it when they need it, but otherwise it's not around they're growers, they're not showers. Right, exactly. That's exactly right. So we have no idea how they reproduce. But we know that the mode of reproduction is called OVO viviparity, which is however, the eggs that the female has get fertilized. Once they're fertilized, they gestate or the eggs develop in the female and then they hatch in the female and then the live fishes continue to gestate and like the whole period lasts three years before they're born. So they go from egg to being hatched to being born within a three year period. And so apparently this does not make the mom see Lacante very happy. And sometimes she will try to eat her newborn pups. So supposedly sea lique pups, that's what they're called, can dive really deep very quickly the moment they're born to get away from mom. To get away from their mom who's like three years. Yeah, three years. Paging doctor Freud. Yeah. I think sharks may be the only other fish that give birth to live little ones. Is that right? I mean, most fish lay eggs, right. So it's definitely unusual. Yes. It may not be unique, but the other thing about their sexy time is there's also a theory that they are monogamous. Yeah, I saw that, too. In 2013, a German team, they had a couple of corpses of two pregnant, I believe the African version. Yeah, the Vladimira Chilomne. I don't remember what the other one was. It was LatimerA something else for the Indonesian version. Yeah, we'll just go with that for now. I was practicing pronouncing. It LatimerA menidoensis. Okay, wow, thanks. That's work. So they analyzed these two pregnant ladies, unfortunately, that were no longer with us, and they found out that they had most definitely had a single father, which they said was unusual. Sure, because one of them had 26 little baby pups inside of her. Right. And they thought at first, well, maybe it's because the seal of ant is so rare that the female wouldn't have opportunity to mate with more than one male. And they said, well, wait a minute, that's true. Well, no, not necessarily. Once they found out that they stay they hang out together. Yeah, in caves all day long. What else are you going to do once General Hospital is over? Just looking around at everybody like, well, what do you want to do? Yeah, that's a good point. All right, well, let's ponder that and take another break, and we'll finish up with even more interesting things about the selocant. It's 2022 when things look different, like doctor's visits, for example. 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Power 2021 Award information, visit JDPower. comAWARDS you know you're a pet mom when you growl back during playtime and you insist on feeding them the highest quality food you can find. Enter Halo holistic made with only whole meat, no meat meals, and probiotics. For digestive health, our first ingredient is always responsibly sourced protein raised with no antibiotics. And bonus, our fruits and veggies contain no GMOs. It's a lifestyle and a pet bomb thing. Find Haloholistic at Chewy. Amazonandhalopetscom all right, so these guys have live babies. They might mate with a single mate. They can unhinge their jaw to eat more. Right. They have a jelly filled thing in their Nastra that detects electricity. It detects electricity. I know, I'm having trouble saying detects, too. What else? This is sort of a recap. They have an oil filled spine. Oil filled spine. They're just good with they're like, I don't need a real spine. This one's my favorite. They were long thought to be the missing link between the fishes and the tetrapods, which are land dwelling for limited to animals. Yeah. Because a notable thing I don't think we mentioned yet is this thing has. Well, I think I did a quote from Courtney Vladimir, but they have four fins that move sort of like you would think legs would move if a fish could swim out onto the beach. Legs and arms. Yeah. Remember how Shaggy walked in Scooby Doo? I do. Just like that. That's basically how a seal of can't swim. Yeah. And the fact that their fins are suspiciously arm like in appearance just made people think that even more. What's more, their arms, what are called lobes, are attached by a bone that is compared to the humerus in humans. So a lot of people said, well, that's it. It's a missing link. The sealakant is a missing link between the fish and the land dwelling for land animals. And apparently, once the genome came around, they said no. Disappointing. They said, yes, we're all related. Technically, we are all what are known as sarcoptarigians. Okay. Which means we are flushy limb vertebrates. So we're all that gross. So we are related, but it's not like our direct ancestor. In fact, we're more closely related to the lungfish than the seal of cancer. But the seal of cats holds its place of honor, is probably living on something of its own branch, and is a very close cousin, if not bro, of the long fish. So we're related by marriage right. To the sealikant, say. But legally, we probably could marry a seal of cath. Sure. And have it not be super creepy. Right. Except for the fact that it's a fish. Right. Feel it a fleshy lobe fan stroking the back of your head as you kiss it. I got something for you. I'm just walking right past that one. They taste gross. So don't think it's some weird delicacy. Not that there are that many of them to eat, but apparently if you do eat them, they can make you sick, because these things are filled with urea, with oil, with wax, ester, and fat. Like 98.5% fat. That's just in its skull. Oh, I thought that was the whole body. No, its brain occupies 1.5% of the area inside its skull. The other 98.5% is fat. And that's at the point that they're an adult, right? Yeah. Supposedly their brains are bigger proportionately when they're younger. And they just stay there. Yeah. They're frozen in perpetual, like, I guess toddlerhood pretty much. They love life. No responsibility, no bills after them. Exactly. What else? I got one for you. Okay. Vestigial lungs. Oh, yeah. Man. I love these things. So they grow they had CT scans done, and this is from the mental floss article of these embryos. And they start growing little lungs early in the gestation period, and it slows down a bit, and then by the time they're an adult, the organ serves no purpose. Yeah, it's just there. Yes. That's a good one. It is. It's almost like the seal of camp was an attempt, an evolutionary attempt. And it's just like, I'm going to scrap this design, let's move on to the long fish. Yeah, maybe so. One of the things that struck me though, Chuck, was when they were talking about how a couple of females that had fully formed young in them ready to be born were caught, that was a lot of the seal of cancer population that got wiped out with those two caught fish. Yeah. I mean, if there are only hundreds, then everyone matters. Yeah. They think that there's possibly about 1000 of the ones that live around Indonesia and far fewer of the ones that live off of the west coast of Africa on the western side of the Indian Ocean. And as a result, both of them are on the endangered species list. They're both protected. The problem is if something happens to these species and these species die out this time, the whole order is gone for good this time around unless we revive them with some of their DNA. Yeah. All right, I got one last one. Okay. And this was on Mental Floss's list as well. Okay. Under the title, a prominent hematologist once wrote a sea licant operetta. All right, so that's an attention grabber. Yeah. Apparently in 1975 there was a man named Charles Rand of Long Island University and he was a hematologist and was doing some work with the sea. Lookant. And this is when the big revelation was they learned that it gave birth to live young and he, I guess, was a music guy and decided to write a little operetta about this discovery titled Aceela Camps Lament or Quintuplets at 50 Fathoms Can Be Fun. All song to the tune of various Gilbert and Sullivan songs. Right. It's a hematologist for you. Wow. For sure. I have no comments on that. I mean, it speaks for itself, other than I wish this was on tape somewhere. Surely it's on YouTube. Everything's on YouTube. You think? Yeah, sure. You want to go over some of these other, quote, living fossils in quote yeah. So again, there's some fishes out there that may have made the jump kind of to land or almost did or what have you, but there's some interesting fishes that are worth mentioning. Speaking of making the jump, did you see that shark that jumped into the boat the other day? No. There was a fisherman and I guess the shark just did one of their famous great white did one of its breeches where they just jump out of the water. This thing did that and landed in a dude's fishing boat. Wow. And he got banged around a little bit but was not like bitten or anything and basically went into his little control room, I think, and called for help. And this shark, it was kind of sad. I think the shark just died. But there are pictures of it. It's huge. It's like 8ft long. Oh my God. Not a little guy. Yes. Can you imagine? No. My God. That guy did the right thing. He ran. He pooped his pants too. I may have jumped into the water had that happen. Alright, so living fossils. The bofin. Yes. The dogfish mudfish or Grindel. I like dogfish. Yeah, this guy, I looked all these up. He lives in the Mississippi River basin and the Great Lakes and other places and are pretty mean. Supposedly eats small mammals, snakes, frogs, other fish. Yeah, they'll go after you. Right. It's sort of normal looking. Just sort of a long fish. Nothing remarkable as appearance wise, though. I'll tell you one that's remarkable appearance wise is the gar. Yeah. You know, I just saw a long nose gar. They are so ugly. Last weekend and it was floating dead in a lake. I was like, what in the world? Because I went by it at first, I was like, Is that a swordfish? Right. Well, no, it's not a swordfish. But along those ones, this thing you had a twelve inch beak. It looked prehistoric. Yeah, they very much do look prehistoric. Which is one of the reasons why they're called a living fossil. And they are just mean, apparently. They're known to kill other fish, not even to eat them, just because they were in their way, basically. Yeah. Like you see this nose. Yeah. And you can't eat gar. They're inedible. And as a matter of fact, if you eat their eggs, it will kill you. They're very toxic to humans and they just go around killing other fish. So they're not the best thing to have in your lake if you like to fish in the lake. No. Did you ever see Vernon, Florida, the documentary? No, I've never seen that one. By the great Errol Morris. It has one of the interviews, it's one of my favorites, with a guy talking about talking about the garfish. Really? Yeah. I got to see that one. Come across one of those. Oh boy, I finally saw A Thin Blue Line for the first time. Oh yeah, that's a good one. It is really good. You probably saw it after the parody of documentary now. Yeah, I definitely do. I saw the documentary now which they nailed. It's like yeah, perfect. They really do. One of the great shows. What's next? Hagfish muddwellers. Yeah. They basically look like eels, but they're fish. But the interesting thing about hagfish, aside from the fact that they don't have any eyes, is that they eat fish from the inside out. Yeah. I think you underplayed it when you said they basically look like eels. It looks like something out of Doon. Okay. Like the body looks like an eel. But have you seen the front end of this thing? Sure. It's frightening. And to think about that crawling up in you and eating you from the inside out. Right. Because if you're a dead or dying fish, and you're like, oh, man, I hope I hurry up and die before a hagfish finds yeah. And a hagfish swims down your throat and then eats you from the inside out. That's a bad day. That's not a good death. No. And then lastly, what about the sturgeon? Love the sturgeon. Did you know that they are both freshwater and saltwater here in North America? I did not know that, but I know one thing, is they're huge. Yes. They get up to, like, 20ft long. Yeah. And I didn't see any pictures of them that big, but I've seen pictures of fishermen with, like, sturgeon that look like they're at least eight or 9ft long. Right. And they're crazy looking. Yeah. Well, the reason I was surprised that they are largely North America is I always associate them with the Baltic area, where the beluga sturgeon is prized for its caviar. That's what I always think of. I think sturgeon. Well, I didn't realize that that's where beluga came from either. Yeah. And they have armor like skin, and they're these retractable mouths that I guess there are different varieties, but some of them look almost like alligators from the head forward. Yeah. They're weird looking fish, but they don't want to hurt anybody. They just want you to eat their eggs. Is that true? Yeah, they're like the giving tree of the lake. All right. That's what's sturgeon. You got anything else? I got nothing else. If you want to know more about living fossils like Celechants or us right. You can type those words in the search bar@houseoffworks.com. And since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this. My mom married. Bob Dora. Oh, I like this one. Do you see that one? Right? And I thought it was because that was the subject line. Right. And then the very first line of the email was, sorry about that attention grabbing subject line. And I thought it was a lie, because a lot of times people say something remarkable in the subject line that is completely false, which always ticks me off. Sure. But this is true. My mom married the wonderful talented and sweet Bob Doro 23 years ago. And if you didn't listen to the show, bob Dora was part of the genius behind Schoolhouse Rock. The original genius. Right. It was wonderful to hear you two speak so highly of them in your recent podcast. My own family listens to you guys a lot. So to hear you speak of our Bob with such reverence, it warmed our hearts when you mention early in your podcast that you wish you could have gotten Bob on the show, I wanted to jump through my phone to say, I can make that happen. Bob learned about you guys about two weeks ago when we took a short road trip for Mother's Day and listened to the grave robbing episode. How awesome is that? I know the guy listened to us right before we released the Schoolhouse Rock episode. Yeah. So he's primed and ready to hear us mention it fortuitous. Yeah. He chuckled off during the ride, and when we got to our destination, he asked something to the effect of, who are those comedy guys? They're good, man. That made me feel good. And then to have the Schoolhouse Rock episode pop up a few weeks later, it was like, whoa. You guys were spot on in your characterization of Bob as a creative genius. A lot of his genius comes from his hard work. The age of 93, he is still traveling the world taking gigs. That's awesome. My mom often complains that he doesn't know how to say no. Thank you for giving bob and schoolhouse rockets proper due. Next time you come up the coast, the Northeast, that is, we'll be there. And I'm sure Bob won't say no. That is from Pete, I guess, his stepson. Yeah. And Pete sending a picture of he and Bob, and that's him in the flesh. Pretty awesome. Pretty neat. And you should go to www, dot bobdoro dorough.com and just check it out. 93 and going strong. Nice going, Bob. Thanks for listening to us. And thank you, Pete, for writing in to let us know that we were spot on about what a great guy he is. Yeah, we were genuinely thrilled to hear this. Yeah. If you want to genuinely thrill us, you can tweet to us at syskpodcast or I'm at Josh Clark. You can hang out with us on Facebook. Comstenocharleswchuckbryant. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web stuffyturno.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseworks.com. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer school's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon Music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, my Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today. You know you're a pet mom when you plan your vacation around your pet. At Halo, we get it because we're pet moms, too. 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The Wind Cries Typhoid Mary | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/the-wind-cries-typhoid-mary | In the 19th century, typhoid was considered a disease of the lower classes. When an outbreak occurred in wealthy Oyster Bay, New York, a mystery was afoot. Tune in to learn how this event began an ongoing debate over public safety versus civil rights. | In the 19th century, typhoid was considered a disease of the lower classes. When an outbreak occurred in wealthy Oyster Bay, New York, a mystery was afoot. Tune in to learn how this event began an ongoing debate over public safety versus civil rights. | Thu, 13 Oct 2011 15:19:15 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2011, tm_mon=10, tm_mday=13, tm_hour=15, tm_min=19, tm_sec=15, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=286, tm_isdst=0) | 34228010 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W. Grinning boy. Chuck Bryant. And Jerry. Yes. Back into his house. Yep. No more guest producing. No. That was a rough week. Sure was. But she's back. Yeah. Hey, Jerry, did you hear that, everybody? Probably not. Chuck. Yes. Jerry? Have you guys ever heard how much manure a horse produces in a day? I'm glad you went with this. Never really occurred to me. Go ahead. \u00a325. \u00a325 of manure. Did you do the math? Because I did. Well, you come with that in a second. Okay, so just go back with me a little bit, Chuck, to the time when Daniel Day Lewis was walking around New York with the meat cleaver overacting a little bit. In my opinion, and it's the late 19th century, and the horse is the preferred mode of transportation for everything from the most humble delivery cart to the greatest ambulance to people who like to ride horses, three musketeers, that kind of thing. Everybody had a horse to the limo to the airport, wherever. So there were about 200,000 horses in New York City in use in 1895, right? Yeah. Multiply that times \u00a325 of poop a day, and what do you get, Chuck? Well, I did 225,000 because I thought that was the number. Okay, so that's fine. We'll go with that. More than \u00a36.2 million of horse poop per day deposited on the streets of New York. Okay. Now, let's say this 1894. There's that many horses. There's \u00a36.2 million of horse poop every day. It's a lot of poop. But not only that, there was no one cleaning it up. It was not enough people cleaning it up, let's say that for sure. It was just left there basically, in a lot of cases, to basically be grounded to the cobblestone. It makes you think, like, I'll bet there's a substantial layer of horse manure under the streets of New York that make up, like, that initial stratum of earth. They call that the pooposphere. Oh, wait, that would be in outer space. No, because the lithosphere is yes. So you are dead on. Thank you. The pooposphere. 95. Things change a little bit. The New York Institute's Department of Health, and basically an army of cleaning guys, very much like the garbage man that Homer Simpson envisions in the garbage Commissioner episode. I can't remember which one it is. Yeah, the Love Day episode is what it is, okay? These guys. They're called White Wings. They are deployed to clean up the streets of New York, and they do a heck of a job. And possibly the fact of the episode, if I may take it, please. This is where the term cleanliness is next to Godliness is coined. Pretty cool. The New York Department of Health slogan in 1895, downtown New York, Josh, at the turn of the century, back then, was a disgusting, filthy place, and yet. I love New York. I love the history of New York. We both watched the same Nova video on Typhoid Mary today, and they had photos of mountains of manure pushed to the sidewalks and sort of like if you ever been in New York on garbage day, imagine all those garbage bags as poop. Yeah, but not poop in bags, just mounds of poop. And they were dead animal carcasses. Did you see that one shot? Probably those, like, these boys playing in the street with just a dead horse right in the middle of their little stick bald diamond. I guess he was home base or something. And it was just a foul, disgusting, unclean, unsanitary place, which, like you said, led to the formation of the Department of Sanitation. Right. So the Department of Sanitation was imbued with a lot of clout from the yeah. And as you said, the Nova documentary on Typhoid Mary, it's called, like, the most dangerous woman in America, I believe. But it's also on YouTube under Typhoid Mary Nova. Yeah. That's good. It was, but they had a lot of clout. They could forcibly inoculate you with these newfangled inoculations. They could forcibly remove you to a quarantine island. And New York had a bunch of them. Yeah. That was popular at the time. Yeah. But basically, your civil liberties could be entirely suspended without any sort of due process of law and if you were considered sick. And a lot of this was based on this new understanding of science of germ theory, thanks to our buddy Louis Pasture Bacteriology. Yeah. So the problem was science reporting hadn't been established yet, so all of the people who were in charge understood what was going on. They understood germ theory, they understood inoculations, they understood forced quarantine, but no one had explained it to the public fully. Right. So it's a recipe for disaster. Right. So there's this thing called typhus or typhoid. I'm sorry. And apparently they were one in the same until the 19 centuries. About this time, typhus and typhoid typhoid fever were separated. But typhoid fever fever, which is the star of this co star of this episode. Sure. It's particularly nasty, isn't it? It is. Josh. We're talking not just ordinary diarrhea, but doubled over, cramping, painful diarrhea, I think you'd call it. Violent diarrhea. Violent diarrhea. High fever, red rashes, sleeplessness, death if you don't treat it. A lot of people through history have been stricken with it, including Mary Todd Lincoln, georgia O'Keefe, ravi Shankar Roy Cohn. Oh, really? No. Frank McCourt, author, and Wilbur Wright, actually of the Wright Brothers fame, died from typhoid fever. No way. Wow. Pretty sad. And that's a scant sampling from a long, long list of famous people that have those are the people who count, who had type voices. Yeah. I think Lincoln's son actually died from it as well, but I don't think Mary Todd Lincoln died from it. Yeah, but you can no, she died of sanity or something like that is what they would have called no, that was Abraham Hysteric. So before we started to get a handle on typhoid fever, by the way, it's caused by the bacterium Salmonella typhe, it's a type of salmonella. And before we got a handle on it with antibiotics, apparently 12% of people died from typhoid. So it's a big public health problem. Yeah. New York especially, there were 4000 new cases per year and killed one in ten people at the time, or one in 12%. Okay. Nationwide. Yes, I understand it before antibiotics got you. So let's even just say 10%. That's a big public health problem. And because it's spread by the bacterium salmonella, did that come out weird? Because it did, in my head slightly a little bit of the lazy tongue there. Because it's spread through salmonella or because it's a result of salmonella, it's very easily spread from handling your own poop eg. Using the bathroom, not washing your hands, and then handling food, uncooked food specifically. It was normally considered to be like a disease of the lower classes. Yeah. Until 19. Six, was it, chuck the summer of a wealthy quarter of the United States on Long Island called Oyster Bay. Billy Joel's home, I believe it's neither here nor there. Okay. So that's one extra fact you just gave everybody. That's true. Yeah. When it happened in Oyster Bay, it was a much bigger deal because it was more closely associated with, let's say, the Lower East Side tenement housing the filth of Lower Manhattan at the time. They've cleaned all that up. Now, what you get, though, when you're in Oyster Bay is you get wealthy families who can spend a little money. And that's what you had in the case of the Thompson family. They were afraid that they would not be able to rent out the house that they were living in because people were getting sick in that house over and over and over and they couldn't figure it out. They decided to hire an investigator who turned out to be a very prominent figure in this case named Dr. George Soper, a sanitation engineer and epidemiologist. One of the first epidemiologists really looking to make his career well. He had a reputation of being able to track any illness back to a source. So this family, the Thompson family, is that the one who owned the house or the one who got sick? They owned the house, and I believe some family members had also gotten sick. Okay. But there was a family that rented it originally. That's where the typhoid outbreak first happened. Oh, so maybe they were just the homeowners the Thompson family hired. Soper I believe, yes. And said, hey, we can't rent this house anymore because people are dying from typhoid. That was their concern. Right, yeah. So Soaper gets on the case, finds the family where the typhoid outbreak occurred, and starts interviewing the heck out of them, and he's stumped. He can't figure it out. Where did this thing come from? These are clearly patient zeros right here, like nobody else I know. Mr Bay had it before. They didn't bring it with them from the city. There is somebody missing. There's something missing. And he finally says, have I talked to everybody who was in this house in the summer of? And they said you should talk to Typhoid Mary. I don't know why I didn't think of that. He goes, what? No, what he did was he interviewed kitchen staff, and it turns out that there was a former employee that was no longer there, mary Mallan. And he said, Wait a minute, maybe I should check this lady out. Turns out she loved to serve this ice cream in fresh peaches, which is uncooked. She was noted for that dessert. Right. But even more incriminating than the dessert is the idea that when he looked into her history, she'd worked for eight families in ten years, and six of those families that had Typhoid outbreaks. So he began to think that there was something special about Mary Mallen and that she was what's called a healthy carrier. Meaning, and I'm just going to paraphrase this awesome way that Nova doc put it. When you get typhoid fever, there's almost always a clear winner. If the bacteria wins, you die, and if you win, if your immune system wins, the bacteria dies. But there are some times where there's a stalemate, where your immune system continues to function and you live and the bacteria continues to live in your system, which means you're healthy, but you're also extremely contagious. And that's what Soper came to believe. Mary Malin was she was technically, she actually had typhoid fever, but her immune system was able to suppress all of it except the killing of all the bacteria part. Right. Pretty cool, but interesting because this is brand new. Yeah. And this guy is on the cutting edge of this kind of thinking. Yeah. And he knew potentially she could be the face of bacteriology. The first Bacteriology lab had just set up in New York City, and it was a burgeoning, not industry, but science. So he was like, man, this is really going to put me on the map if I can prove this, at least. So he didn't have any training in science reporting either, though, did he? He didn't have training and people skills. No, either. He goes to her and he's like, I finally found you. I believe you're infected with Typhoid. So I need samples of your stool, your urine and your blood. By the way, my name is George. Soper good to meet you. And she's like, oh, no, you're not. Yeah. So it's about this time that Mary Mallen no, we should describe who she is, at least. Go ahead. Mary Mallan was Irish, or Irish came over as a teenager by herself. She was born in the poorest town county in Ireland and Ireland at that time, especially in the poorest county. Not a great place to be. No. Also dirty. Also lots of death and dying and filth and disease. And she was born in 1869, so I think that's on the heels of the potato famine, if not still in the middle of it. So she comes over as a teenager, lives with her aunt and her uncle, who pass away and then is basically on her own in New York. And by all accounts, as a result of how she grew up and then being on her in New York, she was very tough and fiery and independent and resourceful. Like, had it been anyone else, this might not have gone down like this. No, they picked. Literally not picked. But as it turns out, it sounds like she was the toughest, most obstinate, stubborn, fiery woman in New York City. Right. But she was also good at what she did. She worked her way up in the domestic servant classes to the pinnacle of it. A cook in that era in domestic service and sort of manager of the kitchen staff. Well, not just that. Almost the whole house. Basically all of the servants. The cook was pretty much at the top, maybe tied with the butler, depending on the house. But she was a cook for all these families, and not just families that could afford to cook, but, like, very wealthy families. She's doing really well for her. She was good at her job, but she took no guff from any man. And when Soper came and told her that he wanted her feces, she chased them off with a carving fork. Supposedly. That's. How soper? Reported it. Yeah. And we'll get into her specifics later and she got a really bad rap. But at the time, like you said, there was no understanding on the public's behalf of this this whole zero I'm sorry, healthy carrier is not even proven yet. So what is she supposed to do? Just say, like, sure, I'll go with you, stranger. Take my poop and put me in a quarantine? Yeah. So she fought it like she probably had every right to. Right. Most initials, though, wouldn't normally brandish a fork, a carving fork, on somebody. But again, it's lost to history. Whether she really did do that or not, it's a good story. So Soper takes off, and he's not one to let his career just kind of slip through his fingers. And he goes to the New York Commissioner of Health, Herman Biggs. He was the first one, and he was the one who was like, oh, by the way, we can come into your house and forcibly inoculate you and your children if we want. And we will do that too, if we think that it's in the interest of the public health. So Biggs was very sympathetic to Soper's description of the story of this crazy Irish woman who was just patient zero in more than one outbreak and basically needed to be dealt with. So he ordered one of his case workers, a few cops, in an ambulance, out to where Mary lived. A tenement. Yeah. Josephine Baker was the inspector and not the dancer. No, but she apparently was a pretty tough lady as well. She started her own Rainbow family. Oh, really? Yeah. We should also point out one of the reasons that Malin was so upset initially was that she got the feeling they were essentially calling her dirty and unsanitary. Right. Yeah. Because he explained to her, like, oh, you go poop and then you get poop in your hands and you handle peaches that you feed people. So she was upset that they felt like they were picking on her cleanliness. Right. She's a dirty Irish McGregor. Yeah, exactly. They were dirty, drunks and causing problems. And that was just the stereotype at the time. And she wasn't like that. She said. Right. So super goes to Biggs. Biggs ordered some people out, they use their power and grab Mary. Well, she hides out in the house for a while, though. Okay. It took 3 hours to find her. Well, when they finally did, apparently it took all either three or four cops to drag her to the ambulance. The female case worker sat on her for the whole ride to this hospital, this quarantine hospital where she was kept for a while. And like you said, it just happened to work out that the person who was Typhoid Mary was this very stubborn, obstinate, self assertive woman from Ireland. And she came about at a time where there was a big question about public health, like, where do an individual civil rights and the greater public good begin? That's still going on. It still is. But she forced this conversation into the national spotlight starting about now. So they keep her, they test her. They're like, you need to poop into this bag right now. And she did. And they tested it and they said, well, things lousy with Typhoid. They call her stool a factory for Typhoid. Yeah. And what they did was they said, here's the deal. Give up cooking because that's how you're transmitting this and we'll let you go. Did they say that immediately? I caught that from the article, but not necessarily from the document. I think they initially offered her that deal that she refused, which was one reason why she was lambasted in the public later on in newspapers. But again, at the time, she had managed to climb up out of the poor conditions that she was living in in Ireland and did a really good job and one that she was good at, and she didn't want to have to learn something new and start over again. So at the time, later on, I can dole out some of the blame on her, but early on, she still feels well. Right. It's like I'm not sick. This doesn't make any sense. What is this healthy carrier thing? Yes. Yeah. She was not buying it at all. No. And she basically came to believe that the Public Health Department had a vendetta against her personally and felt quite persecuted. So when she said no, she wasn't going to stop cooking, they said, okay, well, we're going to take you to a nice little island called North Brother Island. It's not a nice island. They took her there and quarantined her there. North Brother Island is a or it was a tuberculosis hospital, quarantine hospital, I should say. And she didn't have tuberculosis, and she wasn't even sick. She didn't have any symptoms, and yet she was being kept here against her will on North Brother Island, which you sent a killer urban exploration photo spread that I want everybody to go check out. It's creepy. It's on Gothamist.com. And that's Gothamist. And it's titled a Trip to the Abandoned North Brother Island. It is so cool. Yeah. Located there was a Riverside Hospital, and initially there was nothing there. And they said, hey, the idea of the island quarantine was pretty popular at the time, so we should build a hospital there so we can treat these people. But North Brother Island sort of gained a reputation over the years because, one, it was much more than tuberculosis. Later on, it was like heroin. Junkies were treated there, syphilis, like any kind of nasty disease or addiction they would dump you on at Riverside Hospital. It was in asylum. It basically was it was sort of like, what's the DiCaprio? Shutter island. Shutter island. But they had a hard time staffing it with real doctors for a while because doctors, understandably, didn't want to work there. So they had nurses only for a time. Eventually, there was a public campaign to clean it up and to build better buildings and change this rep, which sort of worked, sort of didn't. But in New York City at the time, especially in the Lower East Side and where poor people lived, it had a very bad reputation, as you don't want to go there because you go there and you don't come back. Right. People were afraid of it. Right. So that's where they send this Mary Malinois to, and when she gets there, she starts trying to get out. She hired a not escaping. Right? No. Using legal channels. She hired a private lab and started sending them samples of her stool, and they were testing it, and they were not getting the same results. Me and her boyfriend would sneak her poop to the lab, and they weren't getting the same results that the Public Health Department said that they were getting as far as her being a factory for typhoid. Right. Which could have been a false negative. Right? It could have been. Because they said that you don't always find it in the testing. Isn't that what they said in the documentary? I believe so. But there was a discrepancy, and it was enough for her to get her day in court. Yeah. New York Supreme Court. So she makes her way, she's allowed to leave the island to go for her court date, and basically the Public Health Department was like, look, she's a healthy carrier and she's a public health threat. And Mary's like, these people are holding me against my will. And the New York Supreme Court said you're a public health threat. Go back to North Brother Island. Yeah. And around the same time, it started getting newspaper coverage, courtesy of William Randolph Hearst, who may have financed her law. That's crazy. Her legal expenses, I imagine it was great for the papers. Yeah. I could see him throwing a little money toward it. Totally. But that's where she was dubbed Typhoid Mary, and that's where the public sentiment really swung because she was painted as someone who was willingly giving people typhoid fever. Right? Well, no, she was called Typhoid Mary because they were protecting her identity as well. That didn't work too well. No. So Mary goes back to North Brother Island and is there for another well, she was there for three years total, I believe. And the third year, New York City got a new health commissioner, and he was not about basically squashing people's civil rights, literally. So he not only freed her, he got her a job. Yes. And a lot of people while she was incarcerated, and it was an incarceration, I guess there were a lot of people that did cry out for her release at times, public officials even, but the Department of Health, basically. It was such a unique case. They wanted to experiment on her and said, no, we're going to do some tests on her and not let her out. Well, they did do some tests on her. They thought that perhaps her gallbladder was the culprit. So they were like, we're going to take your gallbladder out. And she's like, Nobody's touching me. She's afraid they're going to kill her. Well, it could have to. They did forcibly medicate her. They tried some stuff out, and she said that she wrote in a diary that if they keep this up for much longer, she'll surely die, because the side effects were so horrid. So it wasn't just like, hey, stay in this cottage. There's a nice view of the water. It was rough for her. In addition to the civil liberties being squashed. Exactly. And so, as you pointed out, the new commission comes in Letterly of Public health and a bit more sympathetic. Like, he said he found her a job in laundry, which apparently was the bottom of the barrel for a woman's career aspirations in domestic servant. Like, no money, like the lowest pay, the worst work. And she was like, this sucks. I don't want to do this. I don't want to work in the laundry. Did you know that Atlanta has one of the Texas drivers in Atlanta is a ghani's king. No way. That's what I thought of when I was reading about that. When she got a job in the laundry. It's like she worked her way past that. She's way past that. Is he really there's? A Ghani. King like coming to America. Who operates a cab here in Atlanta? None but Elchburn. That was a good movie, dude. I could quote it from heart, I think, in full start. Okay. Bark like a dog. All right, so back to Mary. Where are we here? She's just been released or he offered her the job, right? Yeah. And she's out and she's making three years. Yes. But she's making contact with the health Department. They're like, we need to be able to keep up with you and make sure we know what you're doing and everything. And then they're like, we know where she is. We know what she's doing. We talked to her every day, and, okay, we lost her. Yes. We don't know where she is anymore. Yes. It's pretty cool. At the time, you could disappear. Yeah. And if you don't leave a forwarding address or it's like yeah. No Google searching going on there. You could disappear into the folds of Daniel Dayloo's over acting. So a few years after this, Josh, after they had lost her, dr. SOAPERS brought in again to investigate another Typhoid outbreak at the upscale hospital, Sloan Hospital. And I think it was a baby birth in hospital at the time. Yeah. Maternity hospital. Yeah. And what they discovered was Mary was cooking in the kitchen at the hospital. Yeah. Under an assumed name. 25 doctors and nurses were sick, and I believe two of them died. And they said, you're in big trouble this time. Yeah. But not only did they discover it was Soper himself was called into the case, this was like, Ley mjarab. Exactly. It is very much like that. And he comes to the hospital and he recognizes Mary by sight as one of the cooking staff and is like, you are kidding me. She's whipping up her ice cream and beach and just stops, like, mid stroke, like, poop on her hands. It's awkward. So this time she goes willingly. She knows that it's over. It's done. She still doesn't believe that she is a carrier or the problem, but she knows that they think she is and that she's broken some sort of horrendous law. It was kind of sad at that point from the way it was described in the documentary. She was just sort of like I mean, all the fight of this fiery woman was gone. It was just like, I just can't fight this anymore. Take me. And part of it also, I imagine, was public opinion turned against her, like you said the first time she was incarcerated at North Brother Island. There's a lot of public outcry this time. There's a lot of public outcry. But it was against her because she had willfully and knowingly gone back into cooking and had gotten more people sick. Yeah. I think 50 something cases were attributed to her in three deaths. Yeah, I think 49 to 52 is what I read. We got to say, like, I'm defending her in a lot of ways, but they gave her a few pretty good deals along the way that she did not take, which was, A, to give up cooking, b, I think at one point they said, Why don't you just move to Connecticut with your sister? And she was like, I don't have a sister. And they're like, sure you do, Jane. Yeah. She's like, Wait, are you having a stroke? Exactly. So she didn't take him up on that offer and sober promised her 100% of the profits of a book that he would write about her and about the situation. And she was like, no, it wasn't that weird. Anthony Bourdain is one of the experts in that Nova documentary. Little odd. Yeah. I guess he knows his typhoid. Mary yeah. He lives on Oyster Bay, I guess, with Billy Joel. So the legacy of Typhoid Mary is this great debate over how much civil liberty, how many civil rights does a person get to keep when they pose some sort of public health threat? And I guess the answer to that is contagion. Yes. Have you seen it? I have not. You did the other night, right? It was good. Is it frightening? No, it's definitely like my back was tense the whole time. It wasn't frightening, but it was good. There was a really good editorial piece, too, that I read I sent you, where basically this could have gone down in so many different ways. It was sort of like the perfect storm of headstrong. Woman health guy that didn't have a lot of people skills. They said his opinion was if that initial meeting had gone down differently, the whole history might be rewritten, but it went down as them butting heads and just got worse from there. It's pretty interesting. Yeah. So Typhoid Mary, was she a bad person? Josh, I reserve judgment on historical figures, okay? I don't know enough about them. I think you can only judge your contemporaries, really? All right. What about me? I reserve judgment on broadcasters. So if you want to know more about Typhoid Mary, you can watch Nova's excellent documentary, the Most Dangerous Woman in America. If you want to know the origin of the word quarantine, you should go back and listen to our Black Death episode. But if you haven't heard it before and you've read 1491, don't bother emailing in. I know already. I know, I know. I'm sorry. You can also look up the House of Forks article. Who was Typhoid Mary? T-Y-P-H-O-I-D-S-M-A-R-Y. Question mark. You want to type that into the search bar@howstepworks.com? And that means it's. Time for a listener mail. They should do a good movie about that. I can't believe they have it. Yeah, this is, like, great. At the very least, there has to be a book on sober. This is the kind of thing that the public's eating up right now, thanks to this SARS. Thanks to this economic collapse. The Sarsgard Sarsgard. Did you ever see that wives Get it was during the SARS outbreak in SARS guard. The actor, what's his name? Peter Sarsgard. He was on there pitching. It was like a little infomercial and he's pitching the Sarsgaard Sarsgard. Awesome. All right, Josh, I'm going to call this Moon SmackDown the nicest Moon SmackDown we got. All right. Because we got a lot of them, and this guy was actually really hind about it. Guys, love the podcast. I listen as I ride my bike to and from work past the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco on my way to the Moon. Learning interesting facts makes my day a little better. However, I had to send a note about a couple of mistakes in the Moon podcast. You got the current theories about the formation of the Moon and how it affects Earth's precession, right? As far as I know, and those are really the hardest things to understand, but you did perpetuate a few minutes. Number one, the Moon doesn't rotate and is dragged along by the Earth. Well, sort of. The Moon is held in place by the Earth's gravity, but it does rotate. The reason it doesn't appear to rotate, which is what we were trying to say, is because its period of rotation is exactly the same as its period of revolution around the Earth, about 29 days. It's tidally locked. Which brings me to point number two. The Moon has a, quote, dark side that has never eliminated. Not true. I don't remember saying that. Do we say that? We must have, because everyone said that we did. Maybe we didn't say this. Okay, we let people believe that. We don't know it. All right? The Moon has one face we never see from Earth, but it's not permanently in darkness. That's known as the far side of the Moon. So it's Gary Larson, not Darth Vader. Wow. And number three, we have tides because the Moon, quote, pulls up on the water on the Earth and pulls up on the Earth underneath as well. Definitely not true. While the Moon's gravity does pull up the Earth and its water, the effect is minuscule compared to the Earth's own gravity. It's the horizontal differential in the Moon's gravity across the Earth that causes the water to slide towards and away the direction of the Moon. So the water slides sideways, not up. Wow. That's pretty cool. And that is from Chris B, and he was very cool about it. And he says, P s. I'm a little worried about going back and listening to the sun podcast because the sun is way more complicated than the moon. And Chris, don't do it. Don't do it. Just skip it, brother. Yeah. Go. Listen to Cannonball Run. Yeah, that's a good one. No mistakes. That is a great one. Or Twinkies. That was pretty good, too. Yeah. Muppets. Yeah. Anything but the sun. Anything but now. I guess if you have a correction, we want to hear it. We've been reading them again now, lately. I think that's a good chuck. I forgot all about them. I forgot about being wrong. Well, we were right for a good stretch. Well, we weren't doing ones, like on the moon or whatever. Yeah. These tough ones are hard. Yes, they are. Yes. If you have a correction, you can tweet it to us at syscapodcast. You can see us on Facebook at facebook. Comstepychildnow. And you can send us a plain old fashioned email at stuffpodcast@howstuffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit HowStuffWorks.com. Hey, it's summer, everybody, which means school's out, the sun shining, the daylights longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing pool site, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music, My Favorite Murder from exactly right media, my Favorite Murder has something for everyone. Hosted by Karen Kilgarra and Georgia Hardstark, this true crime comedy podcast will share stories that will have you wanting more before you know it. Listen to new episodes of my favorite murder. One week earlier on Amazon Music Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | ||
SYSK Selects: What's the 10,000 Year Clock? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/sysk-selects-whats-the-10-000-year-clock | In this week's SYSK Select episode, in a desert in Texas a 200-feet-tall clock is being constructed deep inside a mountain. Once completed, it will keep time for the next 10,000 years, even if there are no humans around to use it. Tune in as Chuck and Jos | In this week's SYSK Select episode, in a desert in Texas a 200-feet-tall clock is being constructed deep inside a mountain. Once completed, it will keep time for the next 10,000 years, even if there are no humans around to use it. Tune in as Chuck and Jos | Sat, 06 May 2017 14:45:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2017, tm_mon=5, tm_mday=6, tm_hour=14, tm_min=45, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=126, tm_isdst=0) | 45263820 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, everybody, it's me, Josh. And my pick for SYSK selects this week is the one we did on the 100 Year Clock. Just looking back, I think it's probably one of the coolest episodes we've ever done. And it's just kind of me and Chuck operating on all cylinders, talking about something we're super jazzed about. So we hope you enjoy it. And my apologies for being sick in this one. It's still good. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetofworkscom. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W, chuck Bryant. And that makes this stuff you should know. That's right. How are you, sir? Besides a little under the weather. Other than that, I'm fine. I've got that. You remember in the Happiness Audiobook we talked to a guy, David Pierce, transhumanist, about separating no section pain, like, the physical experience of pain from suffering. Like just getting rid of suffering. Right. I've reached that point in being sick where I see how intertwined the two are. Like, I just keep saying, like, whoa, is me. I am suffering. It's pretty bad. So do you feel bad, like, in a flu sense, or is it just the head full of stuff that makes it unbearable? No, luckily, I don't have any flu symptoms. Yeah, because that's what puts me under, when you literally feel those aches and your skin is really sensitive, but a bad cold, which is what I had before you. We're taking turns. I don't know if I got it from you or not. Air travel often will do that. I got mine after air travel, too. Sure. Stupid air travel. It's 2012. Can we do better with the recirculated air? On a plane, maybe? Yeah, just like surely you can crack a window a little bit or something, right? Get some fresh air in there. There's got to be something. All right, so I guess we should do this. Yes. We're stalling. No, we're not. You know why we're stalling? Because we got all the time in the world, man. Slow down. That's what I was saying. Yeah, I'm just reiterating. Thank you. There's no hurry, Josh. Well, let's just stay here for a little while. We're in the foundation of the Long Now. You're misreading it's. The Long Now Foundation. I like the foundation of the Long Now. You know why? Yeah. It is a couple of extra words there. Named by Brian Eno. Yeah. The great musical composer, father maybe, of techno producer, I think he's called a rock musician in this article. Well, the guy I watched a SETI talk from, Alexander Rose, who you said is the project manager of the Long Now Foundation's clock of the Long Male Project, which we're going to talk about. And when he was doing his presentation, he mentioned Brian Eno, and he said, who is an ambient music guy? Is that what he called him? Yeah. I was like, this is Brian Eno. Come on. What was his album Music for Spaceports, something like that. That was a solo thing after Roxy Music. Wait. Brian, you know was in Roxy Music. Yeah, I know. Brian fairy was. They were. And they famously butted heads. And Brian Eno left, I think, after one album, did solo work until he hooked up with you two and the Talking Heads. And as an Uber producer. Cool, man. Where you go, Chuck? Thanks. That was a great explanation of Mr. Brian En, the ambient music guy. Right. But yeah, you're right. He's the one who coined the name the Long now. And this whole foundation, this group of people, the Long Now Foundation, or the foundation of The Long Now, are dedicated to forcing hoisting upon humanity. Like you were saying, just the idea of slowing down, of taking a longer view of everything. The Long Now. Yeah, and I think the way they put it was to try and think in the terms of if you live to be 1000 years old. Right. So long term thinking for the world is better than short term thinking. Although I would argue you need both. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Because it's like exactly. When should I get out of the way of the speeding car? Yes. We don't live to be a thousand factors, but I do like to hear it behind it. I have a question for you. Okay. Would you want to live to be a thousand years old if we age, like, normally, it would be like you don't turn into the Dungeon Master from the cartoon. You mean if it was like, 1000 years old would be the equivalent of, like, 100? Sure. Heck yeah. Would you really? Yes. Why not? I can think of a lot of reasons why not. Name one. Boredom. You'd be worried about boredom. Yeah. Wow. Boredom. I mean, think about all the stuff you can do in a century. Now multiply that by ten. I know. There's like, finite amount of stuff to do on this planet. Well, I think everybody would end up with huge, massive drug problems by age 400. You might be right. Yeah. But hey, a 400 year old should be able to handle his h. So okay, despite how you feel about living to 1000, long Now Foundation is they're kind of into that way of thinking. Like you said, long term thinking can lead to short term gain. And a good example of this is climate change. Right. So I think one of the people who are on the side who are in favor of taking great action against climate change would say that if we can take steps now, if we can think further out, then we'd be able to mitigate this. But we're not. We're thinking about very immediate concerns, which some are reasonable, like economic concerns, that kind of thing. Yeah. Not poopooing it, but it's just two schools of thought. Exactly. So you can kind of understand where The Long Now foundation would sign or sit on that debate. But what they figured out is that we humans, to think like this, we need something to lead our minds in that direction. Because just saying, like, man, what's it going to be like 10,000 years from now? Right? It's like, who cares? Yeah. I'm thinking about food. Like, I am literally right now. I just posed the question, and I'm thinking about food already, long term. Right. But if there were, say, like, a 200 foot clock in front of me that I knew was designed to tick off 10,000 years, I might take a much longer view of things. A beacon, if you will. A beacon indeed. So the Long Now Foundation has undertaken its flagship project, and there's a bunch of other projects, too yes. On it called the Clock of the Long Now, aka the 10,000 year Clock. Very cool. Yeah, I think it's pretty awesome. I can tell you're a fan. Well, if for no other reason than to get attention for their foundation in their school of thought, you know? Right. And that's the whole point. It's gotten some pretty good attention, I think. A lot of people have heard of the 10,000 year Clock already, but it's actually being created, and one's already done. A tabletop version. Yeah. Tabletop meaning 8ft. Well, the prototype. Yeah. And the whole thing was proposed by a guy named Danny Hillis back in 1995. Wrote in a Wired Magazine scenarios article, the idea for this, the concept behind it, and there's been this kind of rallying cry that he wants a cuckoo to come out every millennium. Everybody that shows up in every article I've read on it, that's what they say. That's his thing. Like he wants a cuckoo to come out on the millennium. What's crazy is I don't see anywhere in here that there actually will be a cuckoo. Yeah, I didn't see that either. So poor Danny Hallis will have to wait. But he's the guy behind the Long Now Foundation, right? Yeah. The first thing that I noticed when I look at any of the writings about them in the Long Now Clock is the zero that they just placed in front of the current year. So in 1995, when he wrote that article, he proposed not that they actually change it, but the way they look at things is 01995. And just seeing a date written in that way kind of makes me breathe a little relief, because all of a sudden, 2012 doesn't look like the future. Looks like, oh, well, we got a long way to go. Like, we're backwater yokels time wise. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Because I think they said we've been around. Like civilization has been around for 10,000 years or so. So essentially, this clock would represent our entire past. Well, moving forward. Yeah. It would place us directly in the middle of the two, which I love, so which I was curious about why they're not starting over, then why not start at zero year clock starts. You want to name it a Clarke. It's a millennium clock. Yeah. Maybe because they don't want to disrespect time served. Yeah, if you will. So what they've come up with is a clock, then that will run until the year 12,000. 12,000. 12,015, depending on how fast they can get this thing built. Yeah, but that's their ideas to come up with a 10,000 year clock. A clock that will run without human intervention for 10,000 years. One that can be easily understood by anybody, which I think that they could have done something slightly different with the design. Like, my eyes crossed when I look at the tile face. Yeah. I feel like I'm living in agreed, but there's some challenges to all this. Right. Like, humans haven't really made too many things that have lasted 10,000 years yet. Why should this be any different? Well, you outlined a couple of the base. I think they have five basic principles they were aiming for, and you outlined a couple of them there to work relatively free of regular maintenance was one. Right. Simple enough to maintain that if all of a sudden we go into some post apocalyptic world where there's no technology, we could still maintain it. Right. They were saying they estimate it couldn't go back prior to the Bronze Age, but as long as we have Bronze Age technology, which begin in 3500 BC yeah, and the hallmark of the Bronze Age is metallurgy and black magic and separating ores from metal alloys. Okay, well, if dude, if we're sent back beyond the Bronze Age, then this clock is not going to matter very much. You know what? A close inspection of the operational principles should reveal the principles behind this operation. It's a little bit of word play there that sounds like Danny Hillis. And then what else? No matter when someone comes upon it, it should be able to be improved upon, and finally, it should be able to be constructed small enough to fit on a table that's with the prototype. So success. Yeah, success. And then for the rest of them, they're kind of abandoning that because, like we said, the one that's being constructed right now is going to be 200ft tall. Yes, but let's, like, have ourselves powering such a clock. If you're looking at 10,000 years, I think it seems kind of likely that civilization will suffer at least one collapse. Sure. If not several. And we have no idea how far back humans will be set, hopefully not before the Bronze Age. So this clock needs to somehow gain power from the environment. And Danny Hillis came up with a bunch of different ideas. Right, like atomic power. Yeah. Most of them that's poor manageability and transparency. Yeah. Most of these are scalability. They may have been good ideas, but they're just too large to fit their needs. Either they're too big or they're already, like, they're perfect for this clock. But you can't use that to power. Maybe if something's added on that requires more power TS, you already are using all the power you can. Or you can't scale it up. It wouldn't work the same, maybe. Exactly. Okay. So that would be chemical prestored, potential geothermal, tidal, gravitational changes and seismic and plate tectonic. So those all had poor scalability. Right. So says Hillis. You can't use pressure change because you would need, like, a bellows or a seal. You want this thing to be as simple as possible because, as any engineer knows, the more moving parts you have, the more parts you have that can break down. Sure. And the flow of water. That's a good one. Right. There should be water on the planet for 10,000 years. Sorry, you're exposing the clock to water. So, inherently, water is a self defeating energy source. Same with wind. Yeah. Any kind of exposure to weather. That's why this thing is buried inside of a mountain. Right. So, what did he come up with? He came up with two ideas to power this. Humans. That's what yeah. Human winding. That's one a novel idea. The other is temperature change. That's right. But yeah, he said his favorite was human winding because it fosters responsibility for the clock. Yeah. Which is a great idea, I think, because ultimately, the clock is four humans. Even though it's sequestered in a mountain, it can run by itself for 10,000 years. If no human ever lays eyes on it, it's four humans. And we'll explain all that. If it sounds like we're talking out of both sides of our mouths, we'll explain all that by saying doesn't need humans. Yet it does need humans. I bet people can't wait to feel the tension. I know. The hair is on the back of their necks. Or bristling. All right. So for the prototype, it's sort of like an old school clock in a way. They use Helical weights similar to the weight gravity systems, just like clock towers. Old clock towers. And they drive the energy going up and down these tubes, which will drive the pendulum. Right. Yeah. And ultimately, the prototype, the drive assembly, as you call it, it served its purpose. It was a prototype in that it said, okay, we need to do something different. Right. And they have. But for the prototype yeah. There's Helical weights, which I'm not familiar with. Are you? No. Okay. But the prototype also still had, like, a solar synchronizer, which we'll talk about later, and a pendulum, which will also get a little more into. But the pendulum is kind of key to keeping the time. We should do that now. You want to? Yeah. Okay. So back in the 16 hundreds, people were trying to figure out how to keep time better than they have been, more accurately. And somebody. A Dutch astronomer. Back in the day, the best astronomers were Dutch Christian huygens. He said, hey, why don't you try using a pendulum? Because a pendulum has a pretty cool property in that the only two things that affect the swing of a pendulum. Nothing else affects the swing of a pendulum. Not changes in temperature, not humidity, not anything else except the force of gravity and the length of the pendulum. I didn't know this. Well, I didn't either. If you take a pendulum and put it just about anywhere on Earth, you're going to find that the gravitational field is so close to the same that a pendulum will swing the same way anywhere on Earth. So the same rate, too, right? Right. So what affects that rate? The period, which is the amount of time it takes for a pendulum to swing all the way from one side to the other. Right. So not just one side. It's both. That's a pendulum period. So, really, the only thing that affects it is the length of the pendulum. Right. The shorter the pendulum, the faster they go, the longer the pendulum, usually the longer it takes. And once you get a pendulum going, which doesn't require a lot, it'll keep going. Yes. It takes a very small amount of energy input to keep it going. Right? Yes. Which is perfect for something like a 10,000 year clock. Right. So if you put a pendulum and attach it to something called an escapement right? Yeah. This is the part I got confused on. Okay, well, check this out. So you have a pendulum and you figured out the exact length you need for a pendulum's period to take 1 second to tick off 1 second on a second hand. That's exactly right. Okay. So you can attach the pendulum to this thing called an escapement. And escape is just like a wheel with some gears to it. Right. Okay. And these gears are attached to the second hand. Okay. Okay. And the escapement's always wanting to go forward, but it's being held in place by the pendulum, which is attached to an anchor. But we'll just call it the pendulum. Right. Okay. So as the pendulum swings one way, the escapement gear is being held in place. When it swings the other way, which is the end of a second, the pendulum opens up, allowing the escapement gear to tick forward one tooth. Yeah. Thus moving the second hand forward one movement in a second. So that's how you do it. And if you're very clever, you can design the escapement gear so that as it moves, as it escapes, it also nudges that anchor that's attached to the pendulum, transferring energy back to the pendulum to keep it swinging. And that's the basics of a clock. Mechanical clock. Right, yeah. And that's what they use for the 10,000 year clock, too. Very smartly. And appropriately, too. Yes. I love how when they design something to work 10,000 years, they go back to Bronze Age and well, this wasn't Bronze Age but a lot of just old mechanical technology. Well, yeah, I think we've advanced in a lot. I mean, if you're going to make a digital clock yeah, we know what we're doing, but how are you going to power it? You want to just use some really old, perfect technology. Exactly. That's called long thinking, Josh. Right. So we've got winding and temperature changes, differences in temperature changes that are powering this clock now, right? That's right. And then those are the two principles that are powering the clock. There are different parts of the clock that need to be powered. Like your favorite, the Geneva wheels. Right? Yeah, geneva wheel. Sounds intimidating. A Geneva drive until you look it up on YouTube and see what it is, and it's really just and it can come in all kinds of shapes. And in this case, it's sort of the shape of a star. And imagine each point of a star has a notch cut in it, and sitting underneath that is a drive wheel that spins with a peg coming out of it. Right. And it slips into the little slot on the star, advancing it. One little click keeps turning and spins out of it, and then by the time it comes back around, it slips back into the next one. So it's just a slow ticking around in a circle. Right. And so there's, I think, 20 of these for the big clock, but they're designed with a bunch of holes in them, the Pins and holes system, basically, which essentially is making a mechanical babbage difference engine. Like an early computer. Like a punch hole computer. Yeah. Right. They used before calculators. They use mechanical summers or adders, but it's adding in binary ones and zeroes. So it's carrying out digital calculations through mechanical means, which is pretty astounding. And they're using this astounding technology to power, basically, in this article that we're reading, it's the world's slowest computer, and that computers being used to calculate an algorithm that will produce a different chime using ten different chimes or two bells, so that this thing supposedly will never make the same chime twice. Yeah, I think the algorithm maxes out at 3.5 million times. Of course. Design composed by Brian Eno, the ambient music guy. Right. And that doesn't have anything to do with the powering of the clock, that's just the chimes. No, but the dirty secret of the Long Now Foundation is that 3.5 million different possible chime tones or combinations is about 90,000 days short of 10,000 years. Oh, really? Yeah. What's 9000 days in years? I don't know. Do you have a binary added 365. We need some Geneva wheels in here stat. Well, they're not telling anyone that, though, obviously. No, they did, actually. Yeah, they're like, this thing is not going to chime every day, so I'm sure it'll be fine. Okay. But basically, no one's speaking to Brian Eno right now. He's been demoted to ambient music. Guy from Legendary Producer. Yeah. So the prototype, that's the prototype. It's 8ft tall, roughly eight and a half. It is at the Science Museum in London. You can go see it there. And it first started ticking on December 31. If you're a long hour and it worked. It gone twice at the turn of the millennium to indicate that two millenniums are now passed. Which is funny because technically the millennium didn't start until 2001. That's true. But they don't care. They don't care about a lot of stuff, as I'm finding out. So let's talk about the real deal. When this article was written, the real deal was just proposed and it was going to be about 60ft tall. That was two years ago. Well, that one is the one in Nevada. I think it's still going to be 60ft tall. Oh, really? They just decided to start on the Texas one first. Yeah. Got you. Because Bezos was like, hey, here's $42 million. Can we get started? Well, go ahead and spill the beans there. I just did. Jeffrey Bezos, founder of Amazon.com, is heavily involved in this to the tune of money. And it being built on a mountain inside a mountain in West Texas. On his property. Yeah, he owns it. Sort of kindness. I get the impression that, yes, he definitely has. This project is his, but it's one of many that are going to be built around the world. They got approval to build one in a Smithsonian just this past year. Oh, cool. And also Bezos, by the way, he said that the two are unrelated. It's just a cool coincidence or whatever. But he's also building a spaceport by the mountain too, and he says that's unrelated to the clock. Yeah, he just said, hey, why not? There's a space port. There's going to be 10,000 year clock. We'll see what happens. But if you want to see, he's funding this space program called Blue Origin. And you know how like in the 50s, science fiction rockets would like, land just going straight up and straight down? Yeah. Okay. That's what his rockets do. And you can see video of it. It's the most amazing thing I've ever seen, really, that I'm like. Is this real? We're pretty good at after effects these days, right? It's got to be. I think it's real. We got that kind of dough. You can make it happen. Blue Origin.com. I will look that up, sir. So like you said, Bezos or the one in Texas, I guess is what you should call it, the one that's under construction is going to be about 200ft tall. Yeah. And it's out in the middle of nowhere, very purposely. Yeah, I think it's hours from the nearest airport. It requires a full day's hike to reach the mouth of the cave opening, which is like a steel door. And it's a mountain rising up from the desert. So you have a 500 foot climb just to get to the steel door. The first door. Yes. So, Vandals, not only will you be trespassing, but you need to be a mountaineer if you want to go mess with this thing. Yeah. Which we don't encourage anyone to do. But the first door is going to be jade, which is pretty cool. It's going to be hidden behind the rock face. So I guess you could stumble upon it. I think that's part of the idea, the fun. Yeah. But you will know when you do stumble upon it that there's something very cool there because it's going to be a carved jade door in the rock face. Well, they're going to open it up when they finish. They said they are. But I'm saying if the location or the idea, anything having to do with the clock, it will still be there. Sure. And people can find it accidentally. Yes. What really bothers me about this is I'm not going to know the result. If you live to 1000, maybe you would. But I can't live to 10,000. No, regardless. But does that bother you? Yeah, I want to know how this ends. I want to know if in 10,000 years, if it's still running. Well, what happens if okay, so just the clock. You don't care what happens like 10,500 years from now? Not just the clock. Okay. So if you want to access this thing, you go through those two doors. It's incomplete darkness. It's not all lit up, which is kind of cool. Right, because I guess they don't want any kind of electricity to be needed. No. Obviously while they're building it, they're using stuff. But for a visitor later on. Yeah, exactly. A post Bronze Age visitor. It's going to be housed in a 500 foot tall tunnel about 12ft in diameter. A vertical tunnel. Yeah. That's like a shaft. Basically. It's a twelve foot diameter shaft that's 500ft tall, very tall, and it's got a very precise rock staircase that was carved with a robot slicing machine. Did you see videos? I think yeah, it was awesome. And it starts at the top, which is cool. Basically it starts at the top with this big hunk of rock and just cuts in a circle down one star at a time. Like the golden ratio. Kind of like a nautilus. Yeah. Very cool. And so that's how you're going to access the gears. So let's go ahead and get to that. Let's go ahead and get to the counterweights at least. Well, that's the first thing you would kind of come upon if you walked in on this thing. And it's completed. And the counter weights are made up of stone discs, each about the size of a car, each weighing about \u00a310,000. And we said that winding and differences in temperature change of the principles that provide energy for this clock. But the weights are what keep it running. Right. And when you come upon the weights, you're going to come upon a platform. And, you know, there's like those old movies or whatever where there's slaves, somebody on a ship and they're having to crank a wheel. Like there's three guys all moving in the same direction, and each one has like a pole that he's pushing. Yeah. Like a horizontal wheel, right? Yeah. They're going to have one of those for visitors to crank, and that will raise these enormous counterweights. And once they're fully raised, they'll have enough stored potential energy to power the clock for about a century without a single dash of sunlight or another human visitor. So that's essentially winding the clock. I think they said two or three people it takes to do this. And what's it called? A cap stand? I think that is what it's called. It's called a cap stand, right? Yeah. That's the horizontal wheel that's yeah. So it's pretty cool. It requires human intervention, but as we said, and let's go ahead and spill the beans, how that works. If no one came around ever, it would still run because of differences. And it collects sun's rays through a prism that sticks out at the top. Yeah. Through a sapphire couple of I bet that looks nice. Yeah. That's the only part that's visible from outside, they said. Yes. And it collects the sun's rays and then channels them down through metal rods. And the difference in the interior cave temperature and the temperature that collects between day and night, the changes day and night, which is pretty ingenious because think about what they're probably still will be over 10,000 years. There probably will still be day and night. Yes. And that's ultimately what powers this well, with no human intervention. Yeah, exactly. This dude, though, the Alexander, what was his name? Rose, I think so he said that what they had to figure out. There's something called the equation of time, and it's not constant. Like, the Earth is slowing its rotation by about a second every couple of hundred years. And all this stuff sounds like yeah, big deal. But when you look on a 10,000 year timeline, it is a big deal. Yeah. So the Earth is slowing by about a second every couple of hundred years. It's also processing on its pole every 260 years. So they have to take that into account. And then climate change, if poles continue to melt, water is going to be pushed out, it's going to rotate even slower. So what they figured out there was a variance well, normally there's a variance of about ten or 15 minutes throughout the course of a year from where the sun should be. And they designed this thing to selfcorrect, to still be able to pick up the sun's rays. Yeah, pretty ingeniously, but they needed to do it on a 10,000 year scale. So they basically formulated this massive equation and they figured out how time would evolve over 10,000 years according to all these variables. And they found out it is. A plus or minus in this worst case scenario, with climate change of 23 days from where they think the sun should be over 10,000 years, which means that the clock is way off by the end of the 10,000 years. Well, but they accounted for that with this equation. They did. And the way that they accounted for it, though, also, is through the solar synchronizer. Right. So every sunny day at noon time, the sun will hit that prism, will heat up this little rod that sends a signal to the clock center working. So the smart part of the clock that keeps time all the time, no matter what, right, and says, hey, it's solar noon. Right. And the clock readjust itself. So the most it's ever going to get off is say, however many days or maybe a couple of centuries without sunlight, if there's some sort of horrible nuclear winter or whatever, but let's say a couple of hundred years without sunlight, the next time there's sunlight, it'll say, oh, it's noon, and the clock will just readjust itself, kind of wake back up. Yeah, that's crazy. But it'll go back to, OK, it's noon now, no matter how far it drifted. Right. It will now know it's noon, solar noon. So awesome. It is very awesome. And the differences in temperature also it's called the thermoelectric effect. Yeah. The electrons, if you have a thermoelectric device, electrons will go from the hot side to the cold side. And you know as well as I do that the flow of electrons equals electricity. That's right. So that will keep things in check as well. That will keep the inner workings powered, too. They thought of everything. They did. And they also thought of ways to store energy or to keep from using energy. Saving energy is another way to put it. Well, yeah. I mean, over time, I think they said that if the difference in temperature is great enough, it will just store that temperature and over a timeline. If that keeps happening, it won't even have to stop and catch up. It'll just start operating fully, mechanically, by itself. Right. So winding. Exactly. So in the order of preference or of importance, the solar energy or the diurnal temperature change energy goes from the inner workings of the clock. Yes. Spills over to the weights. Yes. And then if the weights are wound, then you will have the Geneva drive operating, right? That's right. So it goes basically like the clock knowing the correct time, the clock operating and showing the correct time or whatever information that's supposed to, and then the clock making sounds. Those are the levels of importance. Right. As far as energy distribution goes. Sure, yeah, that makes sense because the chimes, they got to come last. They do it's nice and all, but also they're meant for human consumption. But if enough of that, Diana temperature difference energy spills over to the weights, then the clock will ostensibly chime when nobody's there. That's pretty cool. That's very cool. And next to his little rocket station. Right. He's got it all figured out. So while we mentioned the Geneva gears on the main, 200 ft. When they're building, these are about 8ft in diameter, each one weighing about \u00a31000.20 of them. Right. Yeah. And it's pretty remarkable. I mean, if you think if you ever been inside a clock tower and seeing that, imagine that times 20. Remember, the Geneva drive system is the mechanical computer that's calculating the algorithm to play the chimes. It's the whole reason it's there. That's right. And it's being powered by winding or the weights. Winding the weights, yes. Okay. So if you keep climbing up in this thing, you will get to the primary chamber and that is where you finally see the face of the clock, which is the most important thing if you're building a clock. Yeah. I mean, the face of this clock is if it's anything like the prototype, it's not like any clock I've ever seen. It's very awesome. You can clearly say, oh, I see the century and I see the millennium, maybe even the year. But when I get to the star field, I imagine so the star fields being displayed. Yeah, I get that. I think that means that if it were nighttime and you could see the starfield and you went outside and looked up, you would see the same stars. Right, right. Okay. But the horizons are what's throwing me off the most. The REIT. R-E-T-E? Yeah, it shows horizons. I don't understand what that means or what you're going to get from that, fortunately, and I haven't seen it, but supposedly there's going to be a manual or some sort of explanation. Yeah, I'm sure they'll have it some sort of once they open it up for people to come visit, there'll be some little button you push and it will be Morgan Freeman's voice explaining how it works or what the horizon means. Right. If you want to know the time of day, though, you have to ask the clock. Chuck, I thought this was one of the coolest parts of this whole deal because they built it to operate at its most frugal over the years, obviously. And one thing that you don't need is a current readout if no one's there to read it. Right. And so they said, well, why don't you ask the clock, like you said? So whatever time you see when you approach the clock is the last time that it read when someone wound not the clock itself, but the clock's face. Right. The display. Yeah, the clock's display. So there's two ways to win it. The cap stand that raises the weights, and then there's a little hand wheel that just one single person can do to wind the clock, the clock's display, and it will correct itself and say it's now, whatever time it is. And here's the horizon, which Josh doesn't get. Here's where the moon and sun phases are. Here's what year it is with a zero in the front of it. Pretty cool. It's very cool. So the clock always knows what time it is, it's just not necessarily displaying it. Yeah, it's just not going to tell you until it's asked. Pretty cool. So, Chuck, there are some pretty obvious reasons to choose the inside of a mountain to put this clock in. Earthquake protection, nuclear bomb protection, mountain alerts. They're long lasting. Yeah. But there are other reasons that they chose the interior of a mountain as well. Like, the differences in temperature between seasons and day within the mountain are very minimal, which means that you're not going to have a freeze thaw cycle, which is apparently very corrosive. Yes. But it's great enough to where you're going to get energy out of it. Right. Especially at the top. So remember the mountain top from the entrance, the bottom of the clock top is 500ft, but the clock is only 200ft. So the extra 300ft is above there is where the temperature differences will really be noticeable. Right. So they picked a very good place. And also the one in Nevada has got similar conditions, I think, which is why they picked that high dry desert. High dry desert. And then the parts this is remarkable to me. If you're going to construct something that lasts for 10,000 years, you're not going to want to throw a bunch of 30 weight oil in there because oil has the potential to fail and leak and oil will attract dirt like crazy. Yeah. And little hairs and like fuzzy pieces of grit over 10,000 years will stop any machine from running. Right. So what they did was they borrowing from NASA, who originally developed ceramic bearings to use on satellites, because you don't want to have satellites that need oiling either. Right. They used ceramic, which nowadays can be harder than diamonds. Ceramic bearings, like the moving parts are ceramic. Yeah. I remember earlier I said humans haven't made too many things that have lasted 10,000 years. Ceramic pot shirts are one example of something boom. We have pot shirts that are like 17,000 years old, and that's just like, from a pot. What they're making today should be able to last way longer. Way longer. And because these parts move so slowly, they don't require any lubrication. So the ceramic ball bearings are keeping the metal parts away from one another. Because if you have two light metals that are in contact and aren't moving really? Like the Millennium dial. Yeah. Basically won't move the whole time you or I are alive, children are alive. Right. And if you have the same kind of metal, like one gear touching the other gear, they're just going to fuse together. You know why? Micro vibration? I did not enlighten me. No. It's micro vibration. Like it's not moving, quote, unquote, but micro vibration over 10,000 years will cause it to weld itself. That's pretty cool. And that's if it's a, like, metal and if they're unlike, they will corrode over time. Is that right? Yes, it's galvanic corrosion. If they're dissimilar metals, they'll just eat into each other. So either way, you don't want these metals touching one another. So the ceramic ball bearings that don't need any lubrication are perfect. That's right. The rest of it is made from 316 stainless steel, which this Alexander guy said that'll last 10,000 years. And even if it starts to rust, the movements of this clock, because it moves so slowly and because it's so large, the precision doesn't need to be like thousands of an inch. That's what's so cool. It can be like a quarter of an inch. Yeah. Well, it's plenty of room for rust. Right. So if there's rust, it really doesn't matter. And also saw where he said in the video that all the gear teeth were cut three dimensionally. And what that means is it uses rollers to roll the gear. So it's a rolling mechanism instead of what he called a scrubbing friction. So I guess a rolling friction is much easier on the parts and scrubbing. And I was reading a Wired article on it, and the reporter said that he came upon a Geneva wheel. Remember, they're 8ft in diameter. Yeah, these are. And they had the ceramic ball bearings in it, and he could turn it very easily with just like, gentle pressure from his finger. Wow. So they're going to be working just fine. I want to visit this thing when it's done, at least. I know I won't see the end, but I'd like to be there for the beginning. Well, you can actually. You can go join the longNow Foundation@longnoworg. Right? Yeah. They operate on donations. I don't think we ever even mentioned it's a private organization and funded by people like Bezos. I think the basic membership costs like, $8 a month. You probably have a pretty good idea of where your money is going. To their website, longnow.org. Longnow.org. And then there's also now 10,000 yearclock net. And that's Bezos website. Yeah. And there's not a whole lot there yet, but no, I mean, it's just an overview, but we left out this one part and the one in Texas businesses, millennium clock. There's going to be little alcoves, different rooms. There's a one year room, a ten year room, 100,010 thousand your room. And they're leaving it to later civilizations to figure out what artifact to put in there. But in the one year room, they're putting the ore, which tracks the motion. It calculates the movement of the planets. Right. And it also has an animation of, I think, Voyager Two on this grand tour of some of the outer planets. Awesome. And that's going in the one year, and they're going to figure out what to put in the ten year. So they're soliciting ideas from any of that that's crazy. If you have an idea of what should be put in the ten year alcove. And I guess some of that stuff would require electricity, though, right? No, I don't think so. In the side rooms. No, I don't think any of it is going through. Oh, wow. Or if it does, it will just be thermoelectricity right. So I feel like we covered that pretty well. Yeah. 10,000 year clock. I mean, it's way more basic than it appears. Like, when you first look at it, it's like simple gears moving, pendulum swinging. It's always going up. Ingenious, though. Yeah. The way they put it together, it overcame problems that it may not encounter for thousands of years. Very smart, dude. If you want to learn more about the 10,000 year clock, you can type in 10,000 year clock in the search bar athoustuffworks.com and that I said search bar. So that means it's time for listener meal. That's right, Josh. I'm going to call this the cone snail Saved My life. Yes. Remember when we talked about the cone snail no. In the Venom podcast? No, it wasn't Venom. What was it? It was probably was it just called Venom? No, it's like, what's the most venomous animal on Earth? There you go. That's right. This is from David Miami. Hey, guys. Love the show. I recently listened to the show on Venom and you mentioned the Conesnail. Five years ago, Conesnail venom saved my life. In 1994, I was diagnosed with cancer, and due to the cancer, chronic pain, after many years of failed attempts to control my pain with conventional medication, I was extremely frustrated and still suffering intolerable pain. Luckily, I found out about the cyclonetide Conesnail venom because remember I think we talked about scorpion venom being used in cancer? Yeah, that's right. Okay. The only problem with using the Conesnail venom to control pain is that I needed an implant. It can't be taken in pill form. One needs to be implanted with a hockey puck sized implant that slowly releases the medication into my intrathecal fluid. What? Which is the fluid surrounding the spinal cord. I might be pronouncing it wrong. Every three months, I need to go in for a refill. So using a small needle, this guy's like Iron Man. The doctor refills the pump that's inside of his body with conesnail beneath. It has been a godsend and greatly improved my quality of life. And some days I am completely pain free. That is cool. So, David Miami, kudos to you, sir, and continued good health. Hats off to your medical pioneering. Absolutely. What's old is new again. And thank you, Cohnsdale. Yeah, thanks, Cohnsdale. Let's see if you have an email about a past episode and how it affected your life. We always want to hear that kind of thing. Sure. You can tweet to us at syskpodcast. That's our handle. You can join us on Facebook@facebook.com stuffyshonow. Also, we have a newsletter. You can go to stuff you should know. Facebook page. And there's a tab to sign up for the Stuff You Should Know electronic Email newsletter. It's all free. It's over on the left side under our picture. On the very bottom, you'll see Syst newsletter. Yeah, and it's pretty cool. It comes out once a week, right? Something like that. It has links to some of our favorite articles. Just cool stuff. Link to the newest episode. It's one of the better things you'll get in your inbox. Agreed. And speaking of inboxes, you can send us a good old fashioned email to stuffpodcast@howstepworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit Howstep workss.com. To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of our home page. Hey everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime four days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon Music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, My Favorite Murder, and Small Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today." | ||
8d8e5802-ba8a-11e8-a624-eb93c40ea1e3 | Short Stuff: Petrichor | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/short-stuff-petrichor | You know that amazing smell when it rains? Kind of clean, kind of earthy, one of a kind? It turns out that a miracle of nature produces it. | You know that amazing smell when it rains? Kind of clean, kind of earthy, one of a kind? It turns out that a miracle of nature produces it. | Wed, 14 Aug 2019 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2019, tm_mon=8, tm_mday=14, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=2, tm_yday=226, tm_isdst=0) | 12128377 | audio/mpeg | "I was in the at and T store for an upgrade. I left with at and T's best deal on a smartphone and a choice of plan. But on my way out, here comes this new guy. A noncarrier phone and a plan that raised eyebrows. I felt for him when I tell you we left the store store grinning from ear to ear with the same deal. I love watching people prosper. You feel me? That's when I learned that whether you joined today or have been with at and T for years, they'll have the same best deals for everyone on every smartphone. Eligible plan required. Offers vary by device. Restrictions may apply. See att. Comdealsfordetails. Hello, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and there's Jerry over there. We are reveling in nature this morning. We're just loving life because it has rained and it smells amazing outside. And it turns out that that amazing smell is called Petrocheck. Chuck go. Yeah. And so we decided to have school outside today. Remember that? Oh, yeah. I loved that. Because it also meant not only that it was a nice day out and that your teacher had clearly taken acid that morning, but that the end of the school year was fast approaching. Sure. Because I guess that was usually in the spring, right? Especially in Toledo. If it was nice enough to go outside, you were coming up on the end of the school year, so love that. Yes. But, Petracor, like you said, if you ever go outside after a rain, especially a light rain, which we'll get to more so than a heavy rain and you think, man, what is it about that smell that I love so much? And we should also do one on fresh cut grass. Okay, but it's something similar. Got it. But that has a name, and that is petricore. Petrichor. And it is that earthy sort of warm, steamy, earthy fragrance that we get. And there is a story behind it and reasons for it that is science based. Yes. Which makes it just amazingly wonderful. Yes. But it came from Australia, right? The name? It did Australia in the 60s. Actually, it's based on two Greek words petros, I believe, which means stone, and ICORE, which means the fluid that flows in the veins of the gods. Blood of the gods is a simpler way to think of it. That's one way to put it. I also saw Life Force of the gods, sure. Coming from a stone. They really went all out. But they had great names. Well, at least the woman researcher did. Isabel Joy Bear. I love that name. It's just a wonderful little name. Like, it should be like Nickelodeon Sprout cartoon or something. And not Isabel joy behar. That's different. Right? That's like Kathleen Turner overdrive. Anyway, the other guy was Richard Thomas, who had a whole name. But the two of them coined this term in 1964 in an article in the journal nature. The article was called nature of our galaxy's odor with a you because they were in Australia and they coined this term, but they also kind of got down to what creates this. And rather than it just being one thing, it seems to be a combination of three amazing things that all kind of come to the fore during a rainstorm, especially after a dry spell. The first rain after a prolonged dry spell really stinks up the place with beautiful odors. Yeah. And the first thing that we're going to talk about is a molecule that's made by a certain kind of bacteria. And the molecule is called geosman. Geosmin. And it's produced by the bacteria streptomyces when it dies. Right. And it's all over the ground? If it's healthy ground. Yeah. We figured out that streptomyces makes a really good antibiotic. We use streptomyces to cure a bunch of different stuff. But it's not streptomyces we're smelling. It's this molecule that streptomyces produces when it dies. And I believe that it's being consumed by other bacteria. Right. So this geosman stuff that's in the soil has this earthy smell, the earthy component of petrochor. It comes from this molecule. And they knew this starting back in the bear and Thomas, and they didn't know exactly how that would happen, though. Like, how does a molecule in the soil get into the air to make it the smell after a rain? And then finally some MIT researchers proved it once and for all in 2015 that it becomes aerosolized. Yeah. That's really cool. Like, just four years now, as we record this, we've known exactly how this happened because they used these really high speed close up cameras to the ground, and they found out what the raindrops, they trapped little tiny air bubbles when they hit the ground. And then those bubbles shoot up through the raindrop and kind of pop an aerosol, like sort of when you pour a soda, that stuff that fizzes at the top. Right. It just sort of aerosolizes. Yeah. And it spreads by the wind. And that's why a light rain makes the smell more like if it's just like pounding with rain, it's not going to aerosolize and spread out as much. Right. Because it's diffused by the wind. Like it pops up from the raindrops. It pops through the raindrops into the air, and then the wind kind of carries it. So if you've ever noticed, especially before a storm, it's technically not smelling before the storm. It smells just at the very beginning of the storm when the first droplets have hit the ground and have begun to aerosolize, but the wind is really starting to pick up and carry it through. That's where geosman really comes into play. Yes. And here's the deal with geosman. Why it's kind of a big deal for us humans is that more so than any animal that I could find, human beings are really sensitive to the smell of geosman. It's so bizarre, man. Like, we're super sensitive. Yeah. I mean, that means it's important, right? It does, but they're not quite sure why it's important. They think that maybe we evolved to be able to find water through the scent of geosman. That makes sense. We're more sensitive to geosmin than sharks are to blood. Amazing. A shark can smell something like one part of blood per billion parts of water, and we can smell geosman at five parts per trillion. So we're more sensitive to the smell of geosman than a shark is to the scent of blood in the water. Right, which I did some more research into that. Apparently, sharks have been overstated a bit. They can smell blood pretty well, but it's not like those things where they can smell it a mile away. That's all Internet legend. Okay, sure. But even still, I mean, the shark smells blood to sustain itself with food. Sure. And we somehow evolved to smell geosman even better than a shark can. We're not known for our sense of smell. So there's a riddle there. There's a red flag, evolutionarily speaking, that we have yet to figure out, but it definitely is significant. All right, we're going to spend 60 seconds trying to figure it out. You listen to this break, and we'll come back and figure it out and let you know. Okay, friends, so imagine you're in an accident and your injuries are extensive enough that not only do you have to spend time in the hospital, but you're going to need rehab, too. Well, you have insurance, so no problem, right? Well, not entirely. You get back from the hospital and notice there's a gap, and that your insurance is only covering part of your bill, and it's a big bill. Yeah. And until you get back on your feet, you can't get to work. And now you have this financial burden hanging over your head like some dark rain cloud. So what do you do, Chuck? Well, if you have a flak, you can worry less, knowing they can help with the expenses health insurance doesn't cover. Aflac pays cash, which can be put toward expenses, which may be impacted by a covered medical event. Things like your medical bill, copays, or even routine things like rent, groceries, childcare and more. Yeah, that's affluent in a nutshell. They care about what health insurance doesn't cover, so those, they ensure, can care about everything else. And care has always been part of Affleck's DNA. It's the foundation that the company was built on more than 65 years ago, and it's at the core of who they are still today. That's right. They believe the cost of health care shouldn't come at the expense of peace of mind, which is why they are on a mission to help close health and wealth gaps for Americans everywhere. So when the unexpected threatens your peace of mind, let Aflac stand in the gap to help you to learn how Aflac can help with expenses. Health insurance doesn't cover visit aflac.com. That's aflaccom this July on Disney Plus. Don't miss a summer of surprises, superheroes, incredible stories, and a visit from the world's most famous mouse with the epic Marvel Studios Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, new episodes of Marvel Studios ms. Marvel and the wonderful summer of Mickey Mouse. And there's so much more coming to Disney Plus throughout the month with season three of Disney's High School Musical, the Musical, the Series and Zombies. Three plus don't miss National Geographics. America the beautiful. From the awardwinning producers of Planet Earth, Frozen Planet and the Disney nature films, america the Beautiful takes viewers on a tour of the most spectacular and visually arresting regions of our great nation, highlighting the breathtaking landscapes and wildlife that make America one of a kind. All these and more are streaming this month on Disney Plus. All right, so here's another cool thing. Did we figure it out? No, we didn't figure it out. Okay, here's the thing. In that paper by Bayern Thomas in 1964, it's pretty cool. They found out that the scent was being captured and sold in India as matica ATAR. And Geosmin is also becoming a perfume ingredient, which is pretty amazing. Yeah, it has been in India for a while, but I guess the perfume industry in the United States and Europe is finally catching up to that these days. Yeah, we love the smell, but we hate the taste, as they say. Yes, because Geosman also appears in other places, sometimes in the terroir of wine or in mineral water. I don't know that I've ever detected it. At least I didn't realize it. Yeah, I need to know what it is because I love beets. I love mineral water. I certainly am made partially of wine. So I need to know if, like, all those things that I like, if it's in there, then I probably like to taste. So you do like the Earthy taste of beets because that's what gives Beats its Earthy taste. I do, too, but I'm also like walking on a razor's edge of enjoying Beats every time I do. Oh, really? To where? If I stopped and really thought about the taste, I would hate it immediately and possibly forever. So I just think about other stuff, like baseball or my old Cabbage Patch Kid when I was younger. Interesting. Yeah. I don't know about the second one, but yes. Okay. But that's not all, is it, Chuck? No. This next part is really cool to me because if you've ever noticed, if you've been in a rainstorm in the country or the woods, it smells very different than in the city. And that's not just because when it rains in the city, it's kicking up pee and poop and garbage and stuff like that into the air. No, because it technically smells cleaner in the city than it does even in the countryside. Yeah. And that's not because there's more to clean in the city. And so you're smelling the offshoot of that. What it is is ozone. That third ingredient that you smell when you have that Patrick Or effect. Is that a term? The effect of it, yeah. Is lightning. So when a thunderstorm comes around, that what you're smelling with the lightning, that clean, sort of crisp thing that you can't quite put your finger on is ozone. Yes. Which is produced naturally up in the atmosphere. But the electrical like, bolt of anger that is lightning also excites the oxygen molecules in there so much that it combined them together into three. That's ozone. And it does have a very specific smell. It's a weird smell. I remember we had a listener one time that was do you remember this guy? He was making ozone deodorant. No. Yes. I think he sent it to me because he knows that I have deodorant problems. Oh, I want to try that. If you're listening, please. This is years ago, but if you're listening, send us in some more. I didn't care for it. It had a weird smell, and he was like, yeah, some people ozone kind of goes one way or the other. I'll use your old stick. If you're not using it anymore, I don't think that's what happens. You want my four year old ozone deodorant? Yeah. With, like, your armpit hair still stuck to the top of it. Oh, gosh. So the reason why it smells cleaner in the city is because there's less geosman, because there's typically less soil in the city, and geosimon smells more earthy than ozone. So you get more of a prominent geosman smell in the countryside, which means you get more of an ozone smell in the city, which means it smells cleaner in the city. Yeah. It's not like there's more ozone in the city. It's just more prominent because there's less of the geosman. Right. But there is another ingredient that we skipped over. It's technically the second ingredient, and they're not 100% sure of this, but it makes so much sense that they're almost certain that this is the case. That the third component of petrochord. You've got geosmin, ozone, and then terpenes, the things that give plants their distinctive smells, they think that terpenes are activated through a number of different mechanisms that make them produce a much more fragrant smell right around a rainstorm. And then that contributes to the smell of petrochord, too. Right. And if it's been really dry for a long time, that rain may be hard enough to where it breaks off. Dry plant material and stuff like that releases that chemical. And they liken it in this article from the BBC. Just like when you crush up dried herbs, it releases that smell. Yeah. And it would probably follow the same process as the geosman, where it just becomes airsolized by the raindrops as they hit them. Very cool. This is a good one to know. Like, next time you're in a rainstorm and someone comments about why it smells, just say Patrick. Or Right. Or the next time somebody just spits out a bite full of food in their napkin and says, I hate beets, you can explain why. Patrickour. Right. Well, that's it for petrocho petrie, core. Whatever you want to call it, it has been done. The short stuff is out. Stuff you should know is production of iHeartRadio's how stuff works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows." | |
727dd3d4-6a2a-11ea-8f3c-1bb51af2ff7c | SYSK Distraction Playlist: How Jim Henson Worked | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/sysk-distraction-playlist-how-jim-henson-worked | We’ve already recorded an episode on The Muppets, but Jim Henson was such a neat guy we delved into him even further. Learn all about the man behind the Muppets who was so much more than just a master puppeteer in this episode. | We’ve already recorded an episode on The Muppets, but Jim Henson was such a neat guy we delved into him even further. Learn all about the man behind the Muppets who was so much more than just a master puppeteer in this episode. | Fri, 20 Mar 2020 13:30:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2020, tm_mon=3, tm_mday=20, tm_hour=13, tm_min=30, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=4, tm_yday=80, tm_isdst=0) | 39384892 | audio/mpeg | "What if you were a global energy company with operations in Scotland, technologists in India, and customers, all on different systems? You need to pull it together. So you call in IBM and Red Hat to create an open hybrid cloud platform. Now all data is available anywhere, securely, and your digital transformation is helping find new ways to unlock energy around the world. Let's create a hybrid cloud that can change in industry. IBM let's create learn More@ibm.com what if we could change the world one relationship at a time? Don't miss the second season of Force Multiplier, the awardwinning podcast from iHeartRadio and Salesforce.org about tackling some of today's biggest challenges, like climate change, education, access, and global health. Listen in as host Barrettunde Thurston connects with impactful organizations like the Trevor Project, Doctors Without Borders, and the University of Kentucky. Plus, inspiring individuals like Amy Allison and Juan Acosta to discuss ways to maximize our impact. Listen to Force Multiplier on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W, Chuck Bryant, howdy and Jerry, for the last time this year, just informed us that she's all smiles. She is not very nice. Jerry, how did you like that presentation earlier? The sensitivity training? That's great. Yes, people, because we work for Corporation, we have things like sensitivity training. And in those trainings, you get shown video examples of various forms of harassment, and they are the best, most fun things to watch ever. They're pretty overt. Yeah, I could watch those all day long. I was wondering how much that production company made from that. They did, like, five little vignettes. I'm sure they pay the actors like literal peanuts. If they were bad actors, they're like, there's a peanut bucket over there. You can pay yourself. Yeah, the one that really got me was the actually, they were all really funny, but the one with the old guy in the factory loading boxes like a shipping warehouse, and they were giving the old man a hard time about everything. Because he was old. Yeah, because he's old. And they were given a hard time. He was out of work for a while, and they had cover for him, the old man, and he had the back brace on. Did you notice that? And he just look on his face. He just kept getting a little more, like, pouty the whole time. Yeah. I was like, Dude, that's good acting. Stick up for yourself. Tell these young kids what to do. The back bridge prevents them from it. Anyway, I just had to bring that up because I just think that stuff is so funny. And what's funny is people really do some of that stuff that you're like. What? Yeah, there's some creeps out there. That was a really weird set up for Jim Henson because he's the least harassy guy he was probably ever yeah, he certainly comes across that way. He's a genuinely good dude. It's not one of these stories you hear about, like, maybe some of your favorite children's books writers or cartoonists or something. Maybe we're kind of bad people. No, apparently not at all. So there's a lot of quotes in this article. I thought John Strickland wrote it. It turns out that's not the case. I'm surprised because he's friends with or down with at least one of Jim Henson's kids. Really, who I believe lives here in Atlanta. Oh, wow. But in this article, it's one of those things where everybody who compliments Jim Henson, who worked with him, they go to the trouble of complimenting him in a way that's not just like, oh, he was such a great guy. They all back up just a little bit because they're cognizant that that doesn't get it across. Sure. And they want you to understand that they're talking about more than just the great guy. Like, oh, he's dead, and I'm not going to speak ill of the dead, and he's a great guy. And that's a really thoughtless, polite, in, offensive thing to say. Sure. So, like, Frank Oz said something like, he was a great guy, but at the same time he was a human, but he was still a really great guy. Right. So what you're thinking of is, a great guy, get rid of that and actually replace it with a genuine human great guy. Yeah, because as a filmmaker, he's a puppeteer, obviously, but he was a filmmaker first and foremost, which a lot of people kind of forget about. Did you watch any of these? Oh, yeah. That's a tough job. Super stressful. And you and I have seen it can make good guys and good ladies be real jerks and yell under stressful situations. It's a tough thing. There's a lot of money on the line each day, and it's like, everybody relax. It's just millions of dollars. But Frank Oz, I think that's the point he was making. Like, even when he would get frustrated and stressed like that, he was still a good guy behind it all. Yeah. And I guess it was a book review of a biography about him that showed that somebody said it was all just play to him, like work was play. Even though he worked really hard, he was able to commit himself like that to his work because to him, he was having the time of his life all the time. And apparently there was no line between work and play, which, now that we've seen that sensitivity training could have gotten him in a big lot of trouble. But he just enjoyed the life that he had, from what I understand, love cars. He has, like, a Lotus that was the same color as Kermit the Frog. He had a Rolls Royce early on from his work. Yeah. Let's talk about the guy. Yeah, I just need to go ahead and say, if you haven't listened to the episode on The Muppets, this is what I consider just a more in depth part two on the man himself. Right. But that's one of our favorite all time episodes. And from Feedback, one of the great all time fan episodes. Yeah, it was a great episode. Yeah, it was just a lot of fun. And so I hope this augments that one. I hope we do it justice. So that's actually one of the reasons why we can do this episode, because we already did a Muppet episode and they tweeted about us. Do you remember? The Henson Company did? Yeah, they did. Which was they approved it. Got their actual approval. That's right. That was something the Muppets episodes on Things, it's about Muppets. This is about Jim Henson. And it's appropriate that we're doing this because he was more than just The Muppets, even though everybody pegs him with The Muppets. And that is a huge thing. He was more than that. Like you said, he was a filmmaker, but originally started out as a puppeteer, but kind of a reluctant one. Yeah. He was born in 1936. September 24. James Mary Henson. M-A-U-R-Y. In Mississippi. And his grandmother maternal grandmother was a painter and a quilter and a needle worker, and apparently was a big inspiration to him just to seek out the creative in life. Right. Which is pretty great. Yeah. And one of the things he got into well, he was originally kind of a fan of ventriloquism a little bit, but he said later on in life that he was never, like, obsessed with puppets or anything like that, like you would have expected him to be. And as he went to college, I think, in Maryland, he started out as a studio artist. That's what he was studying. Yeah. He loved television above all else. Right. From the time he was a little kid, he was just transfixed by the tube. He almost kind of made himself destined to be on television by being obsessed with it. Yeah. But he kind of stumbled into puppetry in college, and he started out as a studio art major and ended up graduating with a home degree because home Equity the only degree that offered puppet making courses. Yeah, he took a puppetry course at first, then a bunch of textiles and crafts courses, which is a great way to start building and making your own puppets. Right, but he graduated with a home degree. But by the time he graduated, he was already extremely successful. The Rolls Royce that I mentioned, he bought in time to drive to his college graduation because he'd already created successful shows in his town. Yeah. I think in high school, he was on the local TV station doing little guest spots. And then in 1955, the show Salmon Friends debuted, and he also did work on the side making money with I think he did some of the really cool concert posters of the day. Really colorful Silkscreen posters. And Sam and Friends did really well, but he still wasn't quite sure. Like, I still don't know if I want to I'm a filmmaker. I did these short films, really sort of weird, abstract short films. Liveaction experimental. That was totally experimental. Did you see the timepiece? Yeah, that one was pretty cool. It was great. And it's way and did you see The Cube? I watched parts of the cube. Did you see the end? No. Oh, you got to see the end. I skipped the middle because I was like, okay, I get where you're going with this. Yeah. Well, we should just set it up real quick. theCUBE was a show on NBC. It was a 1 hour show. The name of the show NBC did was called Experiments and Television. It was a different thing each week. And he had one week's installment called theCUBE, which was a guy just stuck in a white room, but other people could come in and out of the room, but he could not. Right? Yes. Okay. And he starts to go kind of crazy. And it has the look and feel of a color TV ad, like lots of overacting and Carol Burnett's characters and stuff like that. But the sentiment behind it and everything behind it is really neat, and it really gives you an eye opening example of what Jim Henson was capable of, but also, like, what he was into, because when you think of him, you think of Muppets and Sesame Street in particular. Sure. And these are weird, abstract art films, not unlike you watch a Jim Morrison art film from film school, and it's kind of the same style. That was what was going on back then. Yeah. And he actually got nominated for an Academy Award for Timepiece. I think Jim Henson had Jim Morrison beat by a mile as far as experimental films went. Yeah, I'll agree with you there. So, like I said, he wasn't quite convinced that puppetry was his future because he was a filmmaker and he was like, puppets are still kind of kid stuff. Right. But post college, he did the old tour of Europe, and in Europe, puppeteering is a whole different business. It was a lot more serious and a lot more I guess it was treated as art. Yeah, exactly. And he said, you know what? I am going to give this a shot. Came back to the US, married Jane, and even though he and Jane separated, they never divorced. Oh, really? I thought they did. No, they never fulfilled the divorce. They just stayed separated. Okay. And then he started making TV commercials and formed his own company in 1963 with I don't know if he formed it with Frank Oz, but he hired Frank Oz and Jerry Jewel, who ended up being obviously legendary puppeteers and lifelong collaborators of his. Yeah, but he started out making basically a puppet based commercial ad agency in New York. Yeah. And they weren't making funny commercials back then, so he was really pretty revolutionary at the time. They did pretty well for themselves. And one of the smartest moves he made early on was all of his contracts said that he retained the rights to any of the creations he made for these companies. Yeah. So he was creating some of the things that would later become famous puppets. Like the Cookie Monster was originally made for a chipmaker. And was this puppet that couldn't get enough of these chips? Yeah, he was the wheel stealer and he stole cheese wheels. Yeah. Okay. That's what it was. And he ended up being the Cookie Monster. And the reason he ended up being the Cookie Monster is because Jim Henson retained the rights of that creation. He's a very savvy business guy, too. Yeah. And was he using somebody else's dime, these advertisers like budgets to kind of hash out and form and make his muppets? Yeah. Ralph the Dog started out on Purina commercials and was later a sidekick on the Jimmy Dean Show in 1963, which I remember that from the Muppets episode. Wolf was the first big Muppet. He's such a a bit character now that it's just mind boggling to think he was the one that started it all. Even before Kermit, before Big Bird, it was Ralph kermit kind of stole the show, I think. Yeah. We'll talk a little more about Kermit and where he came from right after this. Hey, summer is here, my friend, which means school is out, the sun is shining bright, the days are longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. Yeah. Whether you're road tripping or you're relaxing by the pool, you can tune into the podcast here. It's on Amazon Music that's so good, it's criminal. Morbid. That's right. It's part true crime and part comedy. Morbid takes you on a journey through murderous mysteries and major laughs, all in the same week. Yes, from the paranormal to the pretty spooky and everything in between, hosts Selena Erkart and Ash Kelly cover it all. And with two episodes released each week, you'll be hooked on this chart topping series before you know it. You can listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. These days, you use your personal info to do just about everything, especially when you're online. And guess what? With all that info just floating around out there, it can make the Internet a practical gold mine for identity thieves. And stealing your identity, it turns out, can be dangerously easy. Which is not good. But now it's easy to protect yourself with LifeLock by Norton. Yes, LifeLock monitors your info and alerts you to potential identity threats. And if you are a victim of identity theft, a dedicated US based restoration specialist will work to fix it. Identity thefts have had it easy for far too long. Now, finally, it's your turn. Just remember, no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses, but everyone can save up to 25% off their first year by going to lifelock.com stuff. That's lifelock.com stuff for 25% off your first year. LifeLock identity theft protection starts here. All right, so it's 1969, and a very big thing happens to Jim Henson. He was invited to be on the pilot of a show created by the Children's Television Workshop called Sesame Street. He did not create it. Some people think he did, but he did make his mark by creating most of the iconic characters. And if you were a fan of the old Sesame Street back then, not all, but many of those little short films, the little claymation ones or the live action ones, he directed those as well, which is pretty cool. I never knew that. I think I knew that. Did you? Yeah. He was our Rust Vic. No, he was there. Rusty Russovic is ours. That's right. So, Chuck, the whole thing that changed everything for him was Sesame Street. He wasn't a creator of Sesame Street. They hired them on, and they actually kind of want them over, because, remember, one of the things that Jim Henson always struggled with his whole career was he wanted to explore places that puppets had never really gone to. Right. In themes that they hadn't gone to, at least not in the modern age. Sure. But he was fighting against them not being taken seriously. Yes. It wasn't like he was anti puppet by any means, or anti kids, because one of the big reasons he signed on with Children's Television Workshop was their goal to educate kids meant a lot to him. But like you said, I think to merge those worlds successfully was a big part of his goal. Right. And struggle for a little while. Russ Vic, by the way, made the little interstitial things for the stuff you should know. Television, the animation, which is why I reference it. Yeah. So the Children's Television Workshop, which is now called the Sesame Workshop, from what I understand, they want them over big time. He makes all of these characters from, like, Big Bird, and I think Kermit came before Sesame Street, and he started out I think we talked about this in The Muppet episode two. He started out looking really weird. Yeah. Like a lizard on it. Yeah. Not cool at all. Like, really kind of freaky. Which is something that now that I know a little more about Jim Henson, I think maybe he might have even been going for. Right. But one of the things that Sesame Street allowed him to do was to really kind of explore something that he'd long been obsessed with, which was television and where it converged with puppets, which was all new territory and Jim Hansen was at the bleeding edge of it. Because if you think about it, when you go to a puppet show live, you're looking at what's essentially a mechanism for hiding the human, and there's just a little area that the puppet can move around in. A little, tiny, biggest stage. Yeah. So Jim Henson stepped back and said, okay, the television is that little tiny area that the puppet can move around in, but it also opens up the whole world for a puppet because you're using camera angles and there's editing, and it's not in person. Just frame out the people. And again, we talked about this in the Muppet episode. He created something called platforming up to where the puppeteers no longer had to crouch down to maneuver the puppets. Yeah, because he was a tall guy. Yeah, tall and lanky. Man, he was skinny. Oh, those running shots in timepiece. Exactly. Because he was in it. They were hysterical. Yeah. And he weighs about \u00a370 somehow. Stick lanky legs. So yeah, the performers could stand up, which was a huge weight off, but at the same time, because you're working with cameras and stuff like that, and they have the whole universe to move around in, and Jim Henson wanted them to move around as much as possible, it also put them in some weird positions. Yeah. Well, some people might think it's kind of ruining the thing, but I think it's really neat if you just look up on Google Images, muppet show behind the scenes pictures, and it'll show the stage sets, like, 6ft off the ground right. And all the people standing beneath. I think it's awesome to look at, but some people don't. Like, they want to keep that illusion alive. Right. So depending on what kind of person you are, either seek that out or don't. And we gave that warning in the Muppets episode, too. Did we? Yeah. I think they're really cool pictures. I agree. Because a lot of times they're looking at video monitors standing there contorted, using both hands. The way puppeteers work together, to me, is just a miracle, because they're acting as the puppets, but they're still moving among one another as humans underneath, which can be really complicated. In fact, we know some really talented puppeteers here in Atlanta. Yes. The center for Puppetry Arts is, I think, the nation's largest puppeteer organization. Yes. And that is where we had our TV show debut party, Premiere Party. It was a really cool experience. Like, Emma Otter and the gang are right there on display. I think the Henson and Kermit cut the ribbon for the grand opening back when it opened and ended up donating, like, 500 puppets and muppets to the center for Puppetry Arts. So if you ever visit Atlanta, people always email us and say, what should we do? I highly recommend going and checking out the center for Pubtry Arts. Yeah, because they have a museum with, like, you said Emma Otter like a full size, life size skeksy behind glass. Scary, as you can imagine. Yeah, but I was talking about Raymond Carr, a friend who I hate to keep bringing up the TV show, but it all kind of overlaps. He was a production designer for Stuff You Should Know on Science Channel, and he and his friends Brandon and the Gang, are amazing puppeteers, and they're doing some really leading edge cool stuff here in Atlanta. Yeah. Like these giant puppets operated, like, 15 foot tall puppets operated by six and eight people. Have you ever seen the space man? That they do. No. It's unbelievable. It's really cool. I don't know how tall he is. He seems like he's 20ft tall. And they do these at parades and stuff, and it's just really cool stuff. That's awesome. Yeah. But Henson is a huge inspiration to them, obviously. Oh, yeah. I think anybody who works even remotely in puppets got to be inspired by Jim Henson. One of the other things that he came up with that was based on putting muppets or puppets on TV was using softer materials. Yeah. Everything else is, like, up to that point, stiff wood marionettes, ventriloquist dummies, that kind of stuff. Right. He used foam, and it allowed the puppets themselves to have more expressive faces, which is great for close up on TV. Yeah, absolutely. Now, looking back, you just are like, well, yeah, of course. It's what puppets do. I know, but that was Jim Hanson that came up with that, and it changed everything because it took something like, imagine howdy duty it was, like, yeah, it's cool. It's howdy duty or whatever. But whether close up or far away, he looked exactly the same. It was like a wood head with, like a moving lower jaw. And he gave you nightmares with Kermit the Frog or something like that. The fact that he could have different expressions and react differently and his emotions could be shown on his face, that made him that much more popular, that much more approachable to people who are into them. Absolutely. Which is everybody. Yeah. Show me someone who doesn't like muppets in any form. I get it if you don't like it anymore. Maybe. But your heart is cold and dead inside for a while. And this is something I don't think I knew. He Dabbled on Saturday Night Live in season one. Lorne Michaels got him a deal to perform some sketches, and ultimately it wasn't a huge success and it wasn't the greatest marriage, but it was pretty cool that he was seeking out different avenues to get those puppets on television. It was. And his big break came. He wanted to make the puppet show, and he had a lot of trouble in the US. Still, even though he had his various successes on commercials and stuff. So he had to go to London and a TV producer named Lord Lou Grade gave him a deal with grades, ATV Studios and said, you know what? You can make your show. And the Muppet Show was born. Oh, yeah. But a boom. That was it. That was it. And you can really see Jim Hinton's love of variety shows and just kind of well, just the stage in The Muppet Show, because if you think about it, the whole thing is set backstage at a variety show. It's such a great idea. When you look back at it. We take it for granted a little bit because we were kids. But now, as an adult, it's like, what a perfect way to frame this world? Is it's basically like 30 Rock or 30 Rock? Was The Muppet Show? Right where The Muppet Show started. All that? Yeah. I don't know if Carol Burnett was before The Muppet Show. Yeah, it was before. Was it? So she did a lot of backstage stuff, didn't she? I wonder if he started that. I don't know. Hers was more sketch. Yeah, but some of it was, like, backstage. Was it? I believe so. I don't remember that. I'm hallucinating right now to have a good old fashioned variety show again. Yeah, they don't have those anymore. Those were big back in the day. Like, a host comes out and then there's sketches, singing. Remember our Cabaret? No, it wasn't Cabaret. What was it, the episode we did? Oh, burlesque. Burlesque? Yeah. How that started out in vaudeville and burlesque. That's where stand up comedy came from. That was an interesting episode. Yes. I miss those variety shows, though. Like the Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton and Cal Burnett. All the Vandrell Sisters. Although Kenny and Dolly could just sit on the couch and stare at the camera for an hour. And I'd watch that. Yeah, they are the best great entertainers. I love those two. All right, so where are we in our timeline? Well, Chuck, the Muppet show just hit. That's right. Things are going pretty well. They have been going pretty well already for Henson, apparently, in Ducky hit number 16 on the Billboard charts. And for those who don't know, Ernie is voiced by Jim Henson. So Jim Henson sang a song, Rubber Ducky, that made it to number 16 on the Billboard charts. That was 1970. A year after the cube. Before the Muppet show even happened. Before Sesame Street even, right? No. Sesame street was 69. Okay. Yeah. Same year as the Cube. Wow. That's the new touchstone for his life, the Cube. Yeah. PC and BC. So the Muppet show was a huge hit. It won a lot of awards. It garnered critical praise and won the hearts of children all over the world. But it was also for adults, too. Oh, yeah. I think that's why he was able to pull it off in Great Britain, because they have better senses of humor. Yeah. And speaking of adults, he got into some more serious themes with his next great show, Fragle rock in 1983. I never saw a second of that show. Oh, man, really? Wasn't on HBO? Yeah, it was one of the first HBO original series. We either had Showtime or we didn't have HBO. It was awesome. Fragile Rock was great. And the idea there is you had the Fragile gang, and then you had three different groups. You had the home of Dock who was an inventor, and his dog Sprocket. You had the Fragiles who shared caves underground of Fragile Rock with their neighbors the Doozers and the Gorgs, and these gigantic creatures that are in Gorg's garden. And the whole point of that show was to show how different types of people can live together and work together in peace. Right. It was really cool. I didn't know it at the time, when I was twelve years old, but what I was learning about was acceptance. And he won three Cable Ace awards, five International Emmys, and Frago Rock was one of the first big hits for HBO as far as TV goes. Yeah, great show, lots of great songs. He had every kind of like he had reggae, rock, country, bluegrass, really. He was all over the map with the music on Fragle Rock. He wrote a lot of songs, too. I think he wrote Rubber Ducky. I'm sure he wrote a lot of the stuff on Fraggle Rock. It was just yet another thing he did was write music. Renaissance man. The other show that he came out with in the 80s, in the mid eighty s that I was big time into was Muppet Babies. I never saw 1 second of that. I love that show. Yeah. We're just enough apart in age where like, certain things I saw you were too young for, and then certain things I was too old for. You know what's weird though? I'm just going to say this. So Yummy and I are the same age. Her sister is like five years younger than us. And I used to love Muppet babies. Yeah. Yummy's sister used to watch Muppet babies. So Yummy was like, why were you watching Muppet Babies if my younger sister was watching babies? And yummy didn't watch Muppet Babies? No, she watched like, Donahue or something like that. I watched Muppet Babies. I'm not ashamed anymore to say, well, when was that? 1984. I was 13, so yeah, I was starting to be a teenager mother. Babies didn't appeal. I think it was on for like four or five seasons. So maybe I was watching at the beginning of the series. That's what I've been telling you. Maybe in 84 you would have been what, eight? Yeah, that's perfect. Eight for Muffetbabies. So I think we just saw it on different ends of the series is what it was. Is that what it is? But have you ever heard of Ron Funches? Yeah. The comedian? Yes. He has a little bit about Muppet Babies. It's pretty hilarious. Oh, really? Yeah, he's awesome. Love that guy. We saw him live. He's just a beautiful human being. Muppet Babies was cartoon, though, right? Right? It was not live puppets. Correct at all. No, it was cartoon. Okay. It was so cute. Were they just the regular puppets as babies? Yes. I have to watch that sometime. Yeah, and they use their imagination. And Gonzo had a thing for Indiana Jones, so he was frequently exploring caves and swinging on vines with the Indiana Jones fedora on and that kind of stuff. See, I would probably enjoy that now. You would? Yeah, definitely. All right, I'm going to go get Muppet babies. Chuck he did even more TV that we'll talk about in a second, okay? Okay. Hey, summer is here, my friend, which means school is out, the sun is shining bright, the days are longer, and best of all, there's plenty of time to get lost in a good, thrilling story. Yeah. Whether you're road tripping or you're relaxing by the pool, you can tune into the podcast here. It's on Amazon Music. That's so good, it's criminal. Morbid. That's right. It's part true crime and part comedy. Morbid takes you on a journey through murderous mysteries and major laughs, all in the same week. Yes, from the paranormal to the pretty spooky and everything in between, hosts Selena Erkart and Ash Kelly cover it all. And with two episodes released each week, you'll be hooked on this chart topping series before you know it. You can listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. These days, you use your personal info to do just about everything, especially when you're online. And guess what? With all that info just floating around out there, it can make the Internet a practical gold mine for identity thieves. And stealing your identity, it turns out, can be dangerously easy. Which is not good. But now it's easy to protect yourself with LifeLock by Norton. Yes, LifeLock monitors your info and alerts you to potential identity threats. And if you are a victim of identity theft, a dedicated US based restoration specialist will work to fix it. Identity thefts have had it easy for far too long. Now, finally, it's your turn. Just remember, no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. But everyone can save up to 25% off their first year by going to LifeLock. comStuff. That's L-I-F-E-L-O-C-K comST. For 25% off your first year, LifeLock Identity Theft protection starts here. Okay, and we're back. And we're still in the 80s. That's right. And you were talking about other TV. As we said, the man love television and filmmaking. And so he got away from the muppets and puppets every now and then collaborated with Raymond Scott, who is an electronica pioneer, actually on shorts called Ripples and Wheels That Go. And he did that for the Montreal expo in 67. Right. And I know we're jumping around in time, but we're just trying to paint the full picture here. Not going necessarily in order. And then he also did this cool thing called The Floating Face, which was a sketch that was on The Tonight Show and The Mike Douglas Show in the see any of that? A little bit. It's a little weird. It was like two eyes and a mouth and there were like these invisible wires and background images. And it was definitely a little more on that surreal tip, the Henson surreal tip. Not kid oriented, necessarily, but he got into the movies with the Muppet movie, which was a big hit. It still holds up, man. It's still so great. If you want to know more about that movie and some of the cool facts from it, go again. Listen to the Muppet episode. As a matter of fact, pause this. Go listen to the Muppet episode and then come back to this one. Yeah. It'll probably enhance your experience. Agreed. Or listen to them both at the same time. But he followed the Muppet in two. He made The Dark Crystal, which was puppets, and it was based on some drawings by fantasy artist Brian Froud. And there were no humans. It was all puppets. And I don't think it holds up as well. But it still looks pretty good. Well, yeah, I think it actually is probably better received now than it was originally. Yeah, I think critics appreciated it, but it didn't do so well at the box office. But now it's become like instead of a cult classic. For sure. Yeah. And one of the reasons why it didn't do that well at the box office is because audiences didn't quite know what to make of it. They heard Frank Oz, who co directed it, jim Henson and puppets, and I think they went expecting the Muppet movie. This is 1982, and they got the Dark Crystal instead, which is really dark. The theme is good versus evil, and the evil in it is really, really evil. And the stuff that happens to some of the puppets, including really cute puppets, is really horrifying. And I read this awesome quote by Frank Oz, and basically he says, jim thought it was okay to scare kids. As a matter of fact, he thought it wasn't healthy for kids to never be scared. He purposefully was trying to scare kids and he wanted to take the tradition back to like grim fairy tales, which were very dark graphics. That's a good point. That's what he was going for with the Dark Crystal. Yeah, I think it was ahead of its time, for sure. Yeah. If you look at some of the CGI movies today, I think that Dark Crystal was a precursor to a lot of those. Correct. Then he went on to make the movie The Labyrinth with Bowie, right? Yeah. David Bowie and Veron Cruz. Young Jennifer Connelly. No, that was legend. Okay, good movie. But this was written by Terry Jones of Monty Python fame and then rewritten a bunch by a bunch of other people, including executive producer George Lucas. Labyrinth was okay. Not bad. Again, not a huge hit for Henson, though, as far as movies go. But he was still out there exploring these cool, fantastical worlds and fantasy worlds, and he still had a lot of credit, even in the late 80s. If you think about it. His heyday was the late seventies, early 80s, with The Muppet Show, The Muppet Movie, and then after that, it was like, yeah, I'll try this with Jim Henson. I'll try this with Jim Henson? And even still, he was on a pretty great streak. And at the end of the 80s, he had two TV shows on the Jim Henson Hour and The Storyteller. Yeah, the Jim Henson hour. He was always pushing the boundaries. The Storyteller, looking back now I'm sorry, jim Henson Hour, looking back, was really different from what you were getting at the time, because it was all over the map. You had certain shows that were like four or five sketches in one, and then three of the episodes were full on, 1 hour little mini movies. Oh, really? Yeah. From beginning louie yeah, that's a good point. Actually, one of the little mini movies was called Dog City, which was great. It was narrated by Ralph, and I remember watching this. It was like a film noir gangster thing with puppet dogs. And the main character, Au, was the guy who did Elmo. Kevin Clash did the character of ACU. And that was fantastic. I think Dog City went on to be a TV show, and it's on right, too, for a little while. But it was really good. I mean, it's total, like, gangster crime filmoir, but it's Ralph the Dog, right? The Gang. I love Ralph. It's really cool. The storyteller I hadn't seen before, I was, I guess, aware of, but I don't know why I wasn't watching it, because it would have been, like, right there for me. Yeah, because I would have been twelve and 1988. But I watched one today, and that was really good. It's like human puppet interaction, and it's just seamless. One of the things from studying this that I've realized is we take for granted and expect our puppet human interactions to be so seamless that we don't even realize that we're looking at puppets right now. And the reason why we expect that is because of Jim Henson and the people he worked with and inspired to work so hard at creating that illusion. Well, yeah, the illusion that these are living, breathing things. He would go I remember Kermit as guests on talk shows. Right. He wouldn't go out as Jim Henson. He would go out as I mean, he did those appearances as well. But Hermit the Frog would be a guest on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson or host or host guest host of tonight show and Larry King. Yeah. And it was all a part of this goal of making these real people or real living things, not people. Yeah. Apparently somebody who was working with Jim Henson was, I guess, a director of The Muppet Show, would be giving Jim notes on Kermit, and Jim would just respond, like, Let Kermit respond. That was freaking out. And the director said, eventually, you're just sitting there. You turn and you address Kermit like he just forced you into interacting with the puppet, even during a note session. Yeah. And probably without feeling silly or stupid or anything, it probably seemed like a totally normal thing to do eventually, once he forced you to do it. He also pioneered the Henson performance control system and won an Academy Award for that. And that was a remote control system that helped puppeteers out. So he was always pushing technical, visual, stylistic, thematic boundaries as far as he could. And they didn't always work. The movies weren't aside from the Muppet movie, they weren't the biggest hits, the TV show couple. Neither one of those lasted very long. But I think he was just intent on doing something different. Yeah, and he did, too. And he died in 1990 of a staph infection. Organ failure brought on by a staph infection. Did you know that? Yeah. I think pneumonia had something to do with it, too, didn't it? Not that I saw. Oh, really? I saw organ failure caused by a group a strep infection. I'm sorry. Not staph. Very sad. And if you're ever in the mood for a good cry, watch the Jim Henson Memorial where Big Bird sings. It's not easy being green. Yeah. Tough stuff, people. His children, his legacy lives on. Through 1993, Jane, his wife, founded the Jim Henson legacy to preserve his contributions, chairman with the public. And like I said, he donated 500 puppets to the center of Puppetry Arts. And there is also the Jim Henson memorial and Muppet museum and traveling exhibits. And his sons and daughters help run his foundation, and some of them are companies themselves and run the company. The company has changed hands a lot. I have sort of the boring history. When he was still alive, he was going to sell it to Disney for 150,000,000, because apparently he believed in Disney's commitment to characters. So he felt like that would be a good place for the Muppets to live. Yeah. And Disneyland, he bought it, but he did not get that deal finished. But it turns out 150,000,000 was chump change, because in 2000, his children sold the entire company, including the Sesame Street characters, to a German media company for 680,000,000. Wow. And then I believe that company fell in hard times, and they bought it back in 2003 for 84 million. Isn't that crazy? Wow. The henson children are smart. And in between all that, there are various exchanges of percentages of stakes with other companies and rights of certain characters. A little dull to go over all of that, but needless to say, they made up pretty well. And eventually Disney now does they do own all the Muppet studio. They own the Muppets. Apparently, the Henson Company sold the rights to the Sesame Street characters to Sesame Street, which is pretty cool. Yeah. And the Jim Henson Creature Shop still builds the Sesame Street puppets and muppets. Yeah. So they sold the rights to the Muppets and Bear in the Big Blue House characters, which I'm not familiar with that one. Nor am I, but Disney wanted, I guess, that's sort of the player to be named later. That's included in the baseball trade. Right. Man, I'm proud of the Henson kids. Yeah, they're great. And I hope we get tweeted about this one from them. They seem pretty great. Brian and Cheryl and the gang, he seemed like they're doing right by the dad. And there's other siblings, too, and I think they're all involved, super involved. And sadly, Jane passed away, I think, in 2013 at the age of 78. I would have loved to have seen what kind of work he did later in his life. Oh, yeah. The fact that he died in 1990 still had a couple of TV shows going. 53 years old. Yeah, he had a lot of work left. If you want to know more about Jim Henson, go listen to our Muppets episode. And while you're looking that up, you can also search Jim Henson on the search bar@houseoffworks.com. I'll bring up this great article, and since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this Smart sophomore. Hey, guys. My name is Matt, and I'm a sophomore in high schoolphone. Smart sophomore. I'm a newer fan of the show, and I listen while I do everything. Just want to say the Dark Ages were only dark in Europe. The life expectancy in the Dark Ages is actually a little longer than before, but mostly because there were smaller wars. But things were certainly brighter in the Islamic world. In fact, people in the Middle East were really enlightened during this time. Within about 100 years, they conquered a lot of new land, including Spain. Also, the Arabic language grew to be the language of philosophy, medicine, and poetry, and Baghdad became the world's center of scholarship. They translated almost all of the famous Greek philosophers work into Arabic. Muslims developed algebra to simplify inheritance laws, and they made important strides in trigonometry to help people find a way to Mecca. Architecture grew, too. The Great Mosque in Spain only took roughly a year, while medieval cathedrals took hundreds of years to build. Well, so the Dark Ages weren't that dark, and the Enlightenment came earlier than most think. And that is for Matt. Thanks, Matt. That is enlightening stuff, my friend. Yeah, our newer rules are Arabic. Yeah, it's true. We should hit on some more Middle Eastern topics. Let's do it, man. Yeah. In the meantime, if you want to suggest some Middle Eastern topics for us, you can tweet them to us at siskpodcast. You can post them on our Facebook page@facebook.com, stuffychano. You can send us an email to stuff podcast@households.com. And, as always, hang out at our beautiful home on the web STUFFYou Knows.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit HowStuffWorks.com summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good it's Criminal Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, Morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Ercart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this chart topping series will have you hooked before you know it. Listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today. You know you're the best pet mom. When you growl back during playtime, give epic belly rubs and feed them Halo holistic made with responsibly sourced ingredients, plus Probiotics Expert Digestive health. Find us at chewy amazonandhalopets.com." | |
c31fdaee-5460-11e8-b38c-737b5082c38c | SYSK Selects: How Immigration Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/sysk-selects-how-immigration-works | Immigration systems regulate the flow of foreign immigrants into any given country. But why is immigration such a controversial topic, especially in the United States? In this episode, Josh and Chuck delve into the details and debate behind immigration. | Immigration systems regulate the flow of foreign immigrants into any given country. But why is immigration such a controversial topic, especially in the United States? In this episode, Josh and Chuck delve into the details and debate behind immigration. | Sat, 30 Mar 2019 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2019, tm_mon=3, tm_mday=30, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=89, tm_isdst=0) | 47953380 | audio/mpeg | "Hello there. It's me, Josh. And for this week's, SYSK selects I've chosen our classic episode, How Immigration Works, because I feel like we could all brush up on the nuts and bolts and the reasons why of immigration. Enjoy. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetofworkscom. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Seated across from me, as always, as it should be, it's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Okay. And that makes the stuff. You should know the podcast. The Dream, the Legend. Yeah. The classic podcast. Classic audio. Yeah. Look at us. Yes. We were called pioneers before on itunes. Do you remember that? In year one, we're like the Milton Borough of podcast, and now we're already classics. I wonder next year will be on the way out. You just die already. Well, you're referring to we were named the number seven podcast of the year in the Classics category. We were behind our glass. Well, as always. Yeah. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I don't feel comfortable being ahead of IRA Glass. I just feel like I'm walking around with a big target on my back or something. No one does. No one is standing alone. Yeah. So, Chuck yes. We should probably mention, while we're at the top of the podcast, facebook Stuff You Should Know. And on Facebook, come join us. It's a lot of fun. Yeah. Give yourself a little Christmas treat. And on Twitter. Follow Josh's Twitter feed SYSK podcast. Yeah. But you run the show there for the most part. You do a good job of filling in the blanks, buddy. Rarely, but thank you, Chuck. Josh. Hey, have you ever heard of the Dream Act? I have not as of today. But today big news. Yes. The Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act, which is basically like s chip for illegal immigrant kids. Okay. But without the health care, right? Yeah. It was passed in the House today by a vote of 216 to 198. And that's kind of a big deal. It moves on to the Senate. Well, it's getting a little hinky because the Senate may kill this thing. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, this is, like, breaking news, so who knows what's going to happen in the next hour after we record? But that's the word on the street. Wow. But basically, this act provides a path to citizenship for kids who were brought to the United States as illegal immigrants and have grown up here. Well, yes. And who qualify in certain ways. Like, they've been here five years. They've obtained a high school diploma or a GED and demonstrate a good moral character. So they're not just willy nilly handing out citizenship. No. And if you're a little kid right now and you were brought to the US illegally as a child, go start volunteering at nursing homes. That can only help you, and the nursing home people will enjoy it as well. Well, this one guy they mentioned in here quickly, caesar Vargas. Of course, they pick out the one shining star as your example, but he's going to graduate law school with a three point A GPA and wants to serve in the US military. And potentially this is blocked. He won't be allowed to do so now, which is kind of sad. We need willing and able bodies, smart guys and gals hard workers. We do need them. And actually, most of our immigration laws, as I understand from researching this article, are kind of structured around the economy. Like, the order of preference for the types of immigrants that we give visas to are kind of like, how's your back? Right? You're feeling strong? Come on. It yeah. Well, they did say that the Dream Act, the Congressional Budget Office said it would actually cut the federal deficit by $1.4 billion. How? And increase revenues. I would guess by adding taxes and people to the workforce. Got. You. Will increase revenues. That's what they say. At least over a decade. And that's with offering them tuition in state tuition to college, right? Yeah. That's pretty big. Okay, Chuck, let's talk immigration, shall we? Yeah. This is way more dense than I thought it was going to be. It is really dense. I knew it was going to be sort of complicated because becoming a citizen is sort of complicated, but I didn't know there were so many ways to do that. We should say, spoiler alert here. Naturalization isn't even in this podcast, and it's that dense. Yeah, I wondered about that. There's no citizenship classes. There's no nothing. The word green card doesn't appear in here either. Just immigration. That is correct, my friend. Remember happiness? One of the characters was an immigration naturalization and teacher. That's your favorite movie. Well, Chuck, let's start at the beginning, okay. Back in the 17th, 70s, there's a guy named Samuel Ellis, and he owns a little island in New York Harbor. It was very important in 1812. It was an important defensive position. After the British left, we said, you know what? Let's just use this to immigrate people. Let's just funnel them through here, build up a nice little building and change everybody's names. And that was Ellis Island. Yes. And from 1892 to 1954, dude, 12 million immigrants pass through that tiny little island, and 40% of our population in this country can be traced back to an immigrant from Ellis Island. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. And I think without slanting anything or leaning one way or the other, I think it behooves all of us, while we're listening to this podcast, to kind of bear that in mind. Maybe your relatives were immigrants at one point. Yeah. So, Chuck, let's talk immigration. How do you do this? Let's talk legal immigration first. Yeah. Well, we should point out beforehand, though, when you said that we should bear in mind that a lot of our ancestors were immigrants. There are nativists that believe that you shouldn't let any people into the country anymore. Right. And those aren't to be confused with Native Americans who are actually the ones who were here originally. Big difference. These are people who are descended from immigrants who are saying that we shouldn't let anybody in the country. Yeah, but I would encourage any nativist to attend a naturalization ceremony. That's all I'm going to say. I've been to one. Have you really? Yeah, I worked on a little documentary on Jane Seymour's Naturalization. What? Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman. Oh, she was naturalized. Yeah. I thought she made a documentary called Naturalization. No, she was naturalized and they hired a camera crew to follow her around. And I worked on that, and I went to a ceremony in Los Angeles. And it's easy to get down in this country when you hear about dosing citizens with LSD and other hinky science, human experimentation and stuff, but you go to one of these things and it's a genuine reminder. And I don't get hokey like this much, but I was misty eyed for sure. Yeah. I mean, an auditorium full of people at the Congress Center what's it called in La. Staples center? Hollywood bowl. Yes, the Hollywood Bowl. Jerry Zucker's house. But all these kids and adults, just you could see it on their faces. They were so happy to be citizens of the US and said the allegiance, and it was really cool. Yeah. Those people know more about civics than the average person who was born here right now. Darn straight. All right, so let's go ahead. Jane Seymour classic Chuck. And before we move on, one of Dave Letterman's top ten signs you're in a bad fraternity. Every Saturday night is Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman night. Is that for real? That's good. So, Chuck, you're done? You're ready to actually talk about legal immigration? That's my mini rant against people that say Close up shop. I like your rants. They're very non offensive. Thank you. Yeah. There are a few agencies that are charged with immigration, and let's make the distinction. Chuck, you've heard of Immigration and Immigration with an irony. Right? So immigration with an I means that you are going into a country. Emigrating means that you are leaving a country or exiting with an E. That's how I remember it. That's a good one. I remember it like I am nauseous to you, Chuck, because I make you feel nauseated. That's how I keep immigrant and immigrant separate. That's an interesting mnemonic device. Do you like that? Yeah. So it used to be Ins, who is in charge of immigration, and these days it's Department of Homeland Security. Right. Pretty much ever since 2001 in the Department of Homeland Security was organized. After that, Ins is pretty much taking a back seat, if they're even still around. Right. And under the Homeland Security is obviously the Border Protection us. Customs and Border Protection and the US. Citizenship and Immigration Service. They handle a lot of the paperwork. Right. Customs and Border Protection handles, like, the law enforcement aspect of it. Yeah. Right. That Congress passes the laws. Right. And Congress is up to they're in charge of all immigration policy. The President can have an agenda that he tries to push through Congress, but it's up to Congress. The one thing the President does have a direct hand in is creating refugee policy. And we'll talk a little bit about refugees, but I propose right here and now that we do a podcast on refugees at some point in time. Yeah. We'll handle immigration and we'll do refugees later. Yeah, agreed. So layoff us, Chuck. Yes. There are plenty of different aliens. Yeah. There's the illegal alien you've heard of. There's a legal alien, the most famous one being Sting, an Englishman in New York. Yeah. And there's a lot of other words that get banned about I get the impression that alien is not quite acceptable as it once was. It's just immigrant now. Okay. But it's not an offensive word. It's actually still a very legitimate word to use. Yeah. You have a resident alien who is you're not a citizen or national, but you have the right to live and work here. Or a non resident alien is like, if you have a travel visa, you're in Australian, you're allowed to live here for a little while. You're an Australian, let's face it, naturalized. Not to be confused with spiritualized, but naturalized means that you are a citizen, but you became a citizen after birth. You weren't a born citizen. I can't see more. Right. Class act. Yes. She's married to, by the way, stacey Keach's brother, Todd Keach, or was it Stacey now? Stacey Keach's brother Todd? No, it's not Todd. I can't remember. But that's her husband, who's a filmmaker, and he made the film about her becoming a citizen. That's awesome. Yeah. Well thought to bring that up. So basically, they rode off about six months of their life. Yeah. And he acted for a short time. He was in vacation. Remember when the officer pulls them over for killing the dog? Dragging the dog? Yeah. Yeah. That's him. James Keach. Really? Yeah. Okay. Full circle. Yeah. That's good stuff, Chuck. All right. There is the end all be all of before being naturalized, the lawful permanent resident, which is basically like kick back, relax, get a job, have a drink or don't go out. Do whatever you want. Just start apply something here or there. Sure. But you're allowed to live here for the rest of your life. Right. You're not necessarily a citizen. Don't try and vote. Right. Don't you dare try and serve on a jury. Right. But pretty much everything else is fine. Right. So how do people get here? Well, you have to apply for a visa. That's the first step in all of these processes is the old visa. Yeah. And it depends on where you are right. Where you go apply. Yeah. Or what your status is. Right. Well, sure. Well, if you are in a country, let's say you're Swedish and you're like, I am so sick of this minimalist furniture crap. Right. I want to get to the US. And then no crime in the gorgeous scenery and the women that are blond and tall. I want to leave all that. Right, okay. And move to Detroit. Yes, you want to move to Detroit. What you would do is you would go to the US consulate in Stockholm or wherever you find the closest one to you in your country of origin, and say, I want to move to Detroit. And after a few minutes of them, like, thinking you're joking, you finally convince them you're telling the truth, they're going to start the process of applying for a visa. Right. Yeah. And this is to become a permanent resident. This isn't like a work visa or student visa. Those are all temporary. Right. This is if you want to stay here forever in Detroit, but this visa is not. This is basically your ticket to get from your country to a port not even in the United States. No. Which is confusing to me a little bit. And you're setting yourself up for an almost immediate letdown, because the consular officer who's going to eventually interview you after you fill out your application, can say, sorry, we don't want your type in Detroit. Yeah. Or they could interview and say, Great, and then you could have another awkward encounter when you get to the port of entry, because they don't have to let you in either. No. The port authority agents can be like, no, I don't really like the looks of you. I don't like your mustache. I don't like that cable knit sweater. Go back to Swedish. Yeah. I hate Ikea. Yeah. Is that Swedish? Yeah. Okay. I always think it's Swiss for some reason. Everything over there. That's over here Swedish. Okay. So let's say you do get here to the port of entry. They will ask you a few questions when you get to that port of entry, like where you're from, what do you want to do here? Is anyone sponsoring you? Do you have family here? That kind of thing. Right. And there are different kinds of visas. I get the impression that there's the, like, nudge, nudge, let the sweet, and he wants to go to Detroit. No criminal background, just let them in type of visa down to the we're not entirely certain that this guy is not a criminal visa. So, like, really scrutinize him. Right. Yeah. They give out 480,000 permanent resident visas every year. That's for family. Yeah. If you want to join a family member that's in the country. Correct. Sorry. Right. So maybe you got married to an American Joe or something like that during the war, or Jane. Sure. Or you have dual citizenship because you were born somewhere with two different parents from two different countries. So you have dual citizenship. You chose the other country. Now you want to move to the US. And your parent lives here. Right. That's probably pretty easy, especially again with the economics if you're 21 and unmarried, right. Because you're going to come over here, probably make babies with an American girl, so you're going to take care of her and you are going to get a good job. So you're going to spend money raising your kid here and you are going to do nothing but be an economic driver rather than a drain. Yes. Well put. So if you let's say you do have a family member here, you need to prove your relationship, I would guess, beyond just saying, I promise you it's my father, you have to have an affidavit of support. Right. That says that you can support this person at 125% above the poverty line, which is like 19 grand. Yeah, not much. It's basically saying you're not going to be a drain on the system. You'll barely eat by, if nothing else. But as long as you can eat by. As long as you can eat by yeah. Then it's got to get approved by the USCIS. Yes. Again, the Bureaucratic arm of immigration. Right. Then the Department of State checks to see if a visa number is available if you might already be in the US. So you can apply to have your status changed to that awesome. Lawful Permanent Resident. After you get a number, or if you're outside and you get a number, you go to the US. To where they tell you to go. Well, you go to the consulate and finish the process there. In Detroit, right. No, in your country still, you're outside. So basically the whole key to immigration is down the middle, whether you're doing this outside the country or inside the country. Right. There's basically two different sets of it's. Like a Choose Your Own Adventure book. Yeah. Right. If you're inside the US, you know, turn to page 32 right. And then apply for lawful permanent resident status. If you're still in Sweden, go to page twelve and go to the consulate. It really does get a little convoluted. I don't think they make it hard on purpose, but I think we should totally see a way. This is in no way legal advice to anybody who is listening to us in Australia or Sweden especially. We're just using you as an example. If you actually do want to immigrate to the US. We hope this inspires you to do it lawfully and to go contact an immigration attorney or at least do a lot of heavy lifting research on Department of State, the Department of Homeland Security's websites, or at the very least by immigration for Dummies. Right. Guarantee is out there. Just do something in addition to listening to this show. Yes, that's what I say. Or if you do, just listen to this show and you become a lawful citizen from it. We want an email from you about that. Yeah. And friend us on Facebook. Yeah. That's so cheap. So where are we here? The family sponsorship. Should we go through that? The preferences? Yeah. We talked about the preferences. Right. So let's spell them out. Provided you're at least 21 parents, spouses, and unmarried children of US. Citizens, you don't have to wait like, if they are citizens, you don't have to wait for that visa number. No. If your visa is approved, or if your petition for alien relative is approved, you can just come on over and become a lawful permanent resident. Right. Yeah. And that's if they're a citizen. If your relative is a citizen. Right. If one of your relatives has made it over and has become a lawful permanent resident, then you can start to come over, too. Right. But there's different preferences for that. It's a spouse or an unmarried son or daughter again, probably of 21 years of age or older. Yeah. That's first preference. They're not too old. The second preference is spouses of lawful permanent residence. They're under 21. Unmarried children and unmarried children of lawful permanent residences. I'm sorry. Residents. Third preference, married children of citizens, and fourth preference siblings of adult citizens. Wow. Yeah. Siblings of adult citizens. You got a bunch of visas left over. You really need your brother over here. I mean, really? Yeah. You're 30, and you got to have your brother over here. Right. Or you're 70. Right. So yeah. It gets a little convoluted, for sure. Checkers. There are other ways to do this. If you were the first of your family and you are starting on the path to citizenship right. There are some other ways to get in the country to get the ball rolling. Number one, one of the best ways to do this is through the diversity lottery program. Yes. It's a lottery that means that you are living in a country where immigration to the US. Is really not that bulky. Sure. Not a lot of swedes coming over to the US. Necessarily. Yeah. They probably get shot at it. And so the State Department sets aside 55,000 visa numbers every year, and actually 110,000 is what they really set aside because a lot of people don't complete the process. They basically say, hey, you want to come to the US. Not too many people are coming over from your country. We are the great melting pot over here. We're missing a little bit of your spice. So how about applying? Yeah. And the Kentucky Consular Bureau is responsible for this. Really? And in 2011, Chuck, did you know that nine New Caledonians and one lichtenstinian we're among the 55,000 who came up? Really? One lichtenstanian? Yes. Wow. And one person from the French Arctic land. I don't even know what that is. And if you're lucky enough to hit this lottery, Josh, you can live here. And work here forever and bring your family. Yeah, you can bring your family, you can bring your unmarried children. If they're under 21. They're over 21, then they're on their own. Right. You become a lawful permanent resident who can become a citizen under that. But it's like a huge not just like it's like the express lane. Yeah. You're in there. Another way to do it is through employment, right? Yeah. I didn't know about this one or the next one. No. This is how we submit that. This is how we got the Nazis over here to start our rocket program through Operation Paperclip. Immigration through employment. Got you. Yeah. So yeah, that's when the employer kind of sponsors you and they submit a labor certification request. Certification. You like that? I like that. What was the other one you said to the residences? And I'm all over the place. Oh, at a faded or besides affidavit. Yeah, I'm all thick tongue today. And on a review that's much thick. So you submit that to the Department of labor. If it is granted, then the employer then files for a petition for alien worker considered by the US. Use again, then if that's approved, then you can get the immigrant a visa number from the State Department and basically say, go to work. But that's read up the little qualifications there, like the types of workers, the preferences. Yeah. So you've got EB one, which is priority workers, which is we need a rocket program to get to the moon fast. EB two is professionals with advanced degrees or persons with exceptional abilities. Basically, if you live in Bangalore, India, right now, that's you you're coming over here, no problems. EB three skilled or professional workers. I think a lot of people have a strong back, probably. Yes. A lot of roofers made their way into Florida, I imagine, through that immigration status. And there's EB four special immigrants. Do you know what that is? I have no idea. I can't even begin to think of what kind of job that would be. No, we need someone on the inside. If you work for the State Department, let us know what a special immigrant is. Yes. And then there is what you could call the yellow brick road to citizenship. Yeah. This is the cherry on top. Basically, if you have some money you want to throw around and invest in the American dream yeah. You can buy your visa. It's 10,000 investor visas every year made available. And there's a few different ways to do it. You have to prove basically that you are going to make an investment in a commercial endeavor that's approved and that you're going to create ten or more jobs through this endeavor. Right. And this is half of those 10,000 investor visas are set aside for this pilot project called Regional Centers. Yeah. Which is basically it's a rural area, struggling business. Sure. It's a part of the US that needs some investment, needs some new businesses, right? Detroit, here we go again. You can also get that same Visa, Josh, by starting a business or purchasing a business that's not doing so hot. Yeah. If you purchase a business, you can't just purchase it. You have to show that you can inflate its revenues by 140% and keep everybody on staff. Right. Or the golden ticket, if you just have a lot of money, if you have half a million dollars, you can say, I'm going to invest that in a rural area. Or if you have a million dollars, you can just invest in some other venture, anything. And the best part is, if you invest that million dollars correctly, not only do you buy your visa, you might make a substantial amount of money back on your investment. Yeah. So if you got a lot of dough, then you can become an American citizen. Come on in, spend your money. Right? Yeah. And I have to say, I know you don't print out the pictures. You're missing out on this one. There are some cool maps that are, like, inflated and exaggerated and anemic and colorful. United States looks based on immigration to countries. Interesting. And then there's also one where refugees are. It's really neat. I recommend going and checking. South and Central America are skinny. America's. Bloated. Yeah, that is cool. So is the Middle East very big? Oh, is it? So let's talk about asylum. This is pretty convoluted as well, actually. Yes. If you remember one thing from this podcast, a person seeking asylum is called an asylum. That's it. Can we just stop there? Yes. Let's go to sleep. You know what asylum is, Josh? Obviously, when you're protected, if you're fleeing persecution from your country, you can come here and say, I need asylum because I live in Sudan. Do you remember in the Rules of War podcast we were talking about World War II, changed everything. Basically brought the whole world together to say, we need to come up with some rules, not just for war, but for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that was pastor ratified in countries of the world said, as a human being, people have the right to seek and enjoy in other countries, asylum for persecution. It's basically like it's some horrible stuff going on over here. You have to take these people if they come to your country, that's a basic human right to be free from that. Because there's other parts of the world. Yeah, yeah. Or at the very least, in the case of the United States, you can go to another country that we have a deal with, an asylum deal. Like, hey, you might like Canada, right? Not only that, if they come to the US. And they're like, I'm seeking asylum, we can be like, you are approved for Canada, and we can just take you there. We'll give you a bus ticket, even. But yeah, it's kind of funny because we have asylum treaties with other countries, and it's interesting. Yeah. There are no quotas or limits on this kind of visa. You just have to demonstrate a well founded fear for your life, basically yeah. Of persecution in his or her home country. Right. And you make that case at a point of entry, basically, if you're seeking asylum, here's the difference between an asylum and a refugee, again, inside or outside of the country. Right. So let's say that you are fleeing Sudan and you've made it to Egypt. You're like, I don't really want to stay in Africa any longer. I want to seek asylum in the US. But I'm doing it from Egypt. You're a refugee. If you leave Egypt and come to the port of Savannah and say, I want asylum, you're in Asylee. It's just where you're doing it. But it's the same thing for the same reasons. You're being persecuted in your home country, and you're seeking comfort and freedom from persecution in another country. Got it. You've heard of the is it the Lost Boys of Sudan? Is that right? The Child soldiers? Why am I thinking? Is it the Lost Boys of Sudan? It sounds right. One of those guys works at Twain's. Indicator he's a former child soldier. I think so. That's wow. And he was just very happy to be busting tables at Twain's, I'm sure. I mean, everyone loved this guy. I don't know if he's still there. This has been a couple of years since I've been there, but it was really neat, the news stories all over the place about these guys, and he worked there and was one of the what's the word I'm looking for? People loved him. He wasn't a mascot, but he was almost like people would come to Twains and everyone said hi to him, and he was a very nice guy. That's awesome. Mascot's not the right word, though. Save it for the refugee podcast for you. Yeah. Because we're talking about asylum here. Yes. So, Chuck, if you're fleeing persecution that's kind of specific. You can't be like, no one in my home country likes me. Right. That's not persecution. Right? No, it's persecution based on race, politics, nationality, religion, membership in a social group. So if like the US. Turned on the Knights of Columbus, they could go to, like, Europe and seek asylum. Or if you're in a book club. Yes. I'm not sure what that means. Okay. There are two types of asylum, joshua affirmative and defensive asylum. And from what I get, affirmative is when you arrive here at a port of entry, within a year of being here, you submit your application, it's filed, and you have an interview. They call it non adversarial. It basically means it doesn't take place in court. Right. It's going to take place in a friendly office, and everybody's going to be smiling and they're not detained. You can live here while your case is. Being considered, but you can't work, isn't that right? I believe that is right. And actually, if you do this the right way, like the US is set up, we actually have an act from 1980 called the Refugee Act, and anybody can ask for asylum, no matter what your alien status is. And we actually have mechanisms, we'll go with that one in place to kind of hasten this process. So if you do this correctly, you can have this whole thing buttoned up in 60 days and be kicking back in Detroit. Yes. If it never goes before a judge and it just stays nice and affirmative and non adversarial. Yeah. Then you're in Lake Flint in no time, right? So basically what you want to do is within a year of landing in the US, you want to go to a port and ask for asylum. Yeah, I would do that on day two. Why not? After I've gone out and see what nightlife has to offer. I love America. And then there's defensive asylum, and that is when you are in danger being deported and you're trying to get asylum. Yes. So that's not like you came here and you filed all the correct paperwork. That means they're saying now you need to go home. And you're like, no, I don't want to go. Right? That means if you waited two years and you go, they're going to be like, oh, well, now you're in defensive asylum, dummy. Why don't you do this a year ago? Right. Or if you weren't granted asylum, you can still try and get in through defensive asylum, right? If you went through affirmative asylum and were denied, your next step would be going through defensive asylum, which is adversarial, meaning it's in a court, everybody's a little stern talking to you, a little mean, right? There's lawyers and all that stuff. And we should say here, if you were caught without correct documentation, if you forfeited your alien status, anything like that, it doesn't just apply to illegal immigrants. It applies to illegal immigrants who can, again, demonstrate a, quote, credible fear of persecution or torture. Right? This is asylum. It just applies to those people. Yes. Right? Yes. And then there's expedited removal check. Yeah. That's if you're busted, basically with no documentation coming in, coming in, and you're just like, oh, I just thought you needed a plane ticket. Is that not good enough? No. Here's my luggage receipt. And actually, this is pretty cool. The immigration officials, which I imagine includes the customs agency, right? Yeah. Which we did a podcast on the end, didn't we? Yeah, sure. Okay. They have to ask four questions of anyone they catch trying to make it into the US illegally, right? They have to ask, Why did you leave your home country? Or do you have any fear, concern about being returned to your home country? Would you be harmed if you were returned to your home country? Do you have any questions? Yes. Anything else you'd like to add that's actually in here? So basically anybody who wants to seek asylum can say, I'm seeking asylum. And that's going to start off this process. They're not going to be like, no. Yeah. If you come here and you want asylum, you're at least going to be able to speak with someone about that. Right. You're not just going to be turned away at the door, but if you're busted getting in yes. You're going straight to defensive asylum. Right. If you make it through and then go to a port right, and say, I'm seeking asylum, that'll be affirmative. Asylum. Yeah. People like I was are probably like, what so confusing? Yeah, just go to a port and say asylum, and that'll kick start something interesting. That'll start the process, for sure. So we're not going to talk too much about refugees, but the 2009 World Refugee Survey puts that number at about 13.6 million worldwide refugees. And then last year god, that's up a lot because this article was written, I think, in 2007. Yeah. And Silverman. Did you notice Jacob Silverman made a Bruno reference? I did, yeah. He said that in 2005, there were 9.5 million refugees. At the beginning of that year, we're up to 13 million. That's what it said. Wow. And last year, the US admitted 60,191 refugees and the next closest was Canada at about 11,000 and then the Aussies at about 9000. Wow. There's refugees from Canada? No, refugees. That canada said once you come on here to the Great White North, we'll let you. They admitted the refugee and that refugees are looking for, at the very least, temporary protected status. Right. And that's when you're like, all right, we'll take care of you for now, and then we'll work this whole thing out in a minute, but you're safe. Is that all on refugees? Do you want to do a podcast on it? Yeah, let's do one later. All right, well, let's move on to the sexiest business of all of this. Yes. Controversy, illegal immigration. Yeah. It's hard to say, obviously, how many there are. The numbers are kind of all over. But the Department of Homeland Security said that there were ten, 8 million last year, which is down a 4 million from eight, and that's the largest drop in 30 years. Yeah, well, we're in the middle of a pretty big recession. Yes. Times are tough here. Yeah, I didn't really think about that. That's exactly why I would still think that it'd be better than being in Juarez. Well, I'm glad you brought up Juarez because I had a question about that, about Cyudad Juarez. Do you like my Spanish? Yeah, but I was talking about Juarez, the place, but go ahead. That's what I'm talking about. That too. Oh, is that the full name of it? Yeah. It means Juarez city. I wasn't talking about Juarez. I was talking about Juarez City. I don't know who that dude is. But think about it. I think more than 6000 people have died in July. This past July, it hit the 6000 mark. Not have died. We're killed. Right, okay. We're killed in Juarez alone since January 2008 because of the real deal drug war. Right. So if you're fleeing that across the US. Border, how can you not seek asylum? Is it that you could conceivably go south, deeper into your home country and be relatively safe? Yeah, I don't know. I was hoping you would. Yes. I don't know if asylum is just for that would definitely constitute a fearing for your life. For sure. Persecution, for sure. That's a good point. But that does kind of pose a problem for people in Juarez fleeing north. Yes. Because US. Is right there. Jarez is in the middle of a real drug war, and it's a very dangerous place right now. Maybe they don't think asylum. They just think cross. Yeah. Cross illegally. And somebody should clue them in. Yeah. And before you were talking about the controversy with illegal immigration and we mentioned the recession, it seems like pretty much I don't think too many people have problems with peaceful refugees seeking asylum in the US. It's when economics are brought into it that would go nuts. Right? Yeah. It always goes back to money. Right? It does. But I think first we should kind of we're up here like, oh, well, they're coming in down south on the border. Right. We should probably point out that for a lot of people who are making these border crossings illegally, it's extremely dangerous. Right, sure. Silverman, who wrote this article cited 3000 people who have died since 1994 trying to make the trek between the Mexico, California border oh, just Mexico, California. Yeah. Since we erected the fence there. Interesting. Yeah. Also, coyotes who you pay to get you across the border, especially if you're coming out of Juarez. They basically double as drug transporters. They use illegal immigrants as mules. Yeah, sure. Basically like, well, here, carry some drugs and I won't charge you. And the person will say, well, no, I'll just pay you. And the guy pulls out a gun and goes, no, you're going to carry these drugs. So these people are not just getting busted coming into the country. They're getting busted with tons of dope on them and they're going to prison. Well, and then that gives the argument to the native CNC. They're just coming in here bringing drugs when it may be traced back to this one drug runner. It is making these hundreds of people smuggle in their drugs. Yes. And I think there's a lot of confusion going on. But yes, it's not good down there right now. No, it's not. So illegal immigrants, as most people know a lot of times we'll come to this country, join up with some of their family who may be here already legally, and do jobs that Americans don't want to do for low wages. That happens a lot of times. It's not legal. You're not supposed to hire these people, but it happens. Yeah. I think Colbert did it. There's a group in New York State who were offering this farmhand, like, I think, fruit harvesting job really to anybody who wanted it, any American, foreign American who wanted it. And no one took him up on it. Yeah, well, that kind of goes to the guest worker program, which is something George W was in favor of. And that has not been approved. But it's been bandied about a lot. And basically that means if you can't find any American to do a job that you want to hire someone for, then hire a foreigner for about to be a term limit, like three years. Track them through the system, make them pay some taxes while they're here, and then give them an incentive to return home. Like, hey, we'll even give you retirement benefits which you can collect in Juarez after your term is done. After you've worked for three years and I didn't know this, I did a little digging. There was actually a program from 1942 to 1964 called the Brecero Program that Roosevelt put in. And it was basically that we need a lot of labor, so let's get some of the Mexican people up here to do this work. And it was a nice exchange, but in the middle of this then we were like, Everybody get out. Well, it was till 1964. But in 1954, in the middle of this program, the Ins ran a program, no lie, called Operation Wetback. What? That was the name of it. What? And their goal was to round up 1000 aliens per day and get them out. And in the end, more than 1 million Mexican nationals were taken back to Mexico courtesy of the US. And not just taken back to Mexico, but like 800 to 1000 miles deep into Mexico to discourage them coming back to the US. Was this program headed up by Don Johnson? Nomad, but that was the name of it. I mean, you can Google it. So anyway, that's part of our lovely history too, here. Wow. But until the guest worker program is for real, then it's just an idea that some people say it might not be a bad one. If they're here working, why not see if we can? Because the reason a lot of people get mad, we should explain, is like, this is fun. I'm watching you tap dance. A, they're not paying taxes is what the people against to say. And B, they most times are sending money straight back to their home. Yes. Remittances. Yeah. So they're not even putting money into the economy. Remember when we were in Guatemala, we found out that tourism number two, agriculture number three, remittances was the number one driver of their economy while we were there. Unbelievable. That ticks a lot of people off. Yeah, right. But I think that that's kind of a flash point. I don't think it encapsulates the whole thing. It's not the beginning and the end of the problem with immigration. No, of course not. Right. Chuck, a lot of people say you want a guest worker program path to Citizenship. That is amnesty. And we don't do that in the US. Right? Yeah, actually, we do amnesty. Yeah. We've given amnesty to a lot of people. Oh, yeah. In 1980, Fidel Castro opened up the Mariel Port in Havana. Yes. And 125,000 Cubans said, See you later, and showed up en masse in Miami. Yes. Amnesty seems to have gone in big waves here. Yes. Which is what a lot of people say. That's why we shouldn't do it, because it just encourages people to come here illegally in hopes that there will be another big amnesty. Right. It rewards illegal behavior. It's federally mandated rewards for illegal behavior. I totally understand that argument. It's a slap in the face to all the people who came here legally and went through this hard kind of grueling process. Sure. Legally. And all the other problems as well. But I guess my point is we have given amnesty to people before and hasn't been the end of the country. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's a good point. And by the way, that Cuban migration in 1980, that's what Scarface starts out. Yeah. And the Delta Force came to Atlanta, actually, because a lot of the immigrants were moved to federal prisons just to hold for a while until the government figured out what to do with them. There was an uprising in the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary and the Delta Force showed up to quell it. Wow. Well, that's kind of what happened in Scarface. Right. Wasn't there a big uprising in the internment camp? Yeah, great movie, obviously. Well, we didn't really talk about the Border Patrol. We could do a whole podcast on that. Yeah, we did with customs. Yeah, we talked about that. We can say that virtual border fence that was controversial and full of technical issues and delays, obama put it into that in March and said, this thing is we could use our money better than this. It's not working. But there is a fence. There's 580 miles of 20 1ft fence along the border. Pedestrian and vehicle fencing. They're working on it. I don't know. I mean, they can clearly never build a fence along the entire border, but the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps is trying to do it on their own yeah. Not very successfully, though. They talk a lot. But apparently they did a report on their fence and they basically said it's a cattle fence. I once interviewed the guy who founded that. Really? I can't remember his name right now, but I talked to him on the phone and you just start him talking and he'll talk. It was very interesting. Very interesting conversation to just basically sit there and take notes on. Well, I mean, I guess I see what they're trying to prove, but their goal is a ten mile stretch of fence and come on, 10 miles? I mean, you can walk that in an hour and go around it. 10 miles an hour? You're going to have to be jogging, perhaps running. Okay, 2 hours. Okay, what do you walk about 4 miles an hour instead of I walk about a mile and a half an hour because I stop a lot and lay down. Well, you're a stroller. What else, dude? Well, that's it. Amnesty. Do you want to talk about some more highlights of amnesty? 1097. About a million Nicaraguans were given amnesty through the Central American Relief Act. Oh, really? 1998, 1250 Haitian refugees were granted amnesty on masse. Right. And all of that is because of the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act, which gave amnesty to about 2.8 million illegal immigrants. And the president who did that when Ronald Reagan look at their yes. Funny how things work. He was such a dichotomous president. Oh, yeah, man. Okay. I got nothing else. I don't either. I think that's the end of immigration. We don't ever have to talk about it again. Yeah, we can do refugees. We can do naturalization at some point. Yeah, we could. How about this? We'll just play selected clips from Jane Seymour's Naturalization documentary and just be like, oh, wow, right? Now that is something. And then we'll make sure to get a lot of you crying. Yes. Okay. So Chuck, if anybody wants to learn more about immigration, very dense article, well written by one Jacob Silverman, who used to work here. You can type in immigration. That's two Ms in the handyarchurch bar@howstepworks.com, which means it's time now for listener mail. Josh, I'm going to call this shout out request that we don't grant often, but we are in this case. This is a big one. Don't we get paid for these now? No, in karma we do. Guys. My name is Eric. Erickson. I've been listening to your show for some time now. I was actually shown them by my friend how would you pronounce I-L-O-N-A ilona ilona ilona. It's like Elena, which is why I'm actually emailing you guys for her birthday this year I'm trying to do something really special. I've been emailing her favorite actors and musicians to see if they could send an autograph or a short message. So far I've gotten messages back from Andrew Bird, who I'm a fan of, and Priscilla On, who is another singer who I don't know. Okay. And they both got back. So I felt that's the only reason I did this, I thought, well, we can't be the jerks who don't do it. Do you know how many of these you're going to get now? No, don't bother. We're going to have to do like a Happy Birthday segment. I figured it would be really awesome if you two could maybe give a shout out to her in the listener mail section. So that's what we're doing here. Eric, it would mean a lot to me if you could do this. It doesn't matter when he didn't tell us when her birthday was. I'm just hoping she doesn't listen to it before I give her the rest of the things and he still doesn't tell me when her birthday is. So we're ruining this for you, Ilona. Then I'm very sorry. If you get back to me sometime, it would be super awesome. Is this us getting back to yeah. I just want to tell you why Ilona means so much to me. That is very sweet, Eric with a CK. And I hope this gets whatever you're seeking then Eric with a CK. You can't trust Eric to spell her name with a C and a K. It's one or the other. You should just throw a T on the end of that. He's very middle of the road. I'll bet. Yeah, so I can see your side, but I can also see your side. I'll bet. This immigration podcast has made us headaches. Well, clearly neither of them are going to get through this, so they'll just think that we blew them off. Yeah. Well, thanks a lot. If you want to say Happy Birthday to somebody, apparently the border is open. Everybody's streaming through it's not let us know why we should say Happy Birthday to somebody. Wrap it up in an email and send it to stuffpodcast@howstuffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetofworks.com. To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of our home page. The House of Forks iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on itunes. Hey, everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime four days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon Music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks, or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, My Favorite Murder, and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today." | |
3f7af182-5461-11e8-b6d0-177b21214dc1 | Selects: How Chili Peppers Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/selects-how-chili-peppers-work | Born and raised in South America, chilis were the earliest crop domesticated in the continent and among the first items brought back to Europe by Columbus. Today people are really, really into them. Find out all about 'em in this classic episode. | Born and raised in South America, chilis were the earliest crop domesticated in the continent and among the first items brought back to Europe by Columbus. Today people are really, really into them. Find out all about 'em in this classic episode. | Sat, 20 Feb 2021 10:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2021, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=20, tm_hour=10, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=51, tm_isdst=0) | 50220804 | audio/mpeg | "Hi, everybody, chuck here. Happy Saturday. Do you want to know how chili peppers work? Because we did, and we learned this is from September 1015, how Chili Peppers work. It's hot stuff. Welcome to stuff you should know a production of. iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clarkson. Charles W, Chuck Bryant and Jerry. And that makes this stuff you should know. I was so going to quote the Red Hot Chili Peppers. The band, they apparently used them at Guantanamo Bay to torture prisoners. Really? Yeah. That surprises me. I know usually I've heard of stories like that, but usually it's some kind of dark metal or something. Like super Starlay and vocal band. Some might say abrasive. Some might think it's very soothing to hear death metal. Supposedly there's a study out there that had a ridiculously small study population that found that it's calming. It has a calming influence. Metal music does. Paid for by the Metal Association of North America. Right. The Scandinavia. Yeah. I'm kind of surprised they played the Chili Peppers. It's pretty easy on the years, isn't it? Well, one of the songs is California Casin. Yes. Their later stuff isn't as good. I could go a little crazy with that one. I'll talk what were you going to quote? I was going to say Give it away. Give it away now, or something like that. Or fight like a brave I haven't heard that one. That's early stuff. You could just say, like, under the bridge downtown. Yeah, I ate a chili pepper. I actually read his biography. I guess it was an autobiography. Anthony Ketos, because was he writing about himself? Yeah, I was just going through a kick where I was reading music autobiographies for just rock star stories. Didn't you recommend the Motley Crue biography? There's the best. Which one was it? There's one quintessential one. I can't remember what it's called? The Quintessential Crew. Yeah, just look up. I mean, that's not an autobiography. That's just Typography. Yeah, but that one's really good. The slash one is good. And the Keto one is good. Man, that guy, he had troubles. Oh, yeah. Just bad drug troubles and woman troubles over and over. But he's good now. Well, good for him. Yeah. Welcome back to the fray, Anthony. Keith. That's what I say. So we're not talking about the red hot chili peppers. We're talking about red hot chili peppers. Right. Not the right, we're talking about chili peppers. Depending on where you are in the world. C-H-I-L-I peppers or C-H-I-L-E peppers or just Chili's? Yeah, you could say that. I think a lot of chefs just call them chilies. Well, yeah, because they don't waste words. No, they don't say peppers. It's a couple extra syllables. Yeah, exactly. No, Chef, give me some of those chilies. It is the bell pepper and the celery stalk, and the onion is part of the trinity of, I guess you would call it NAWL's cooking. Sure. The bell pepper is a chili pepper. It's just a non hot chili pepper, but it's still the same thing. Yeah, and it turns out that we get that terminology, chili. It actually was used by the Aztecs or the Triple Alliance in Mesoamerica. The Triple Indies? The Triple alliance prior to the arrival of Columbus. And it was Columbus himself where we get the misnomer chili pepper because Columbus, he's a big dummy. Could that guy get anything right? No. So he comes across the chili pepper and decides that it must be a relative of the black pepper with which he and the rest of Europe are already very familiar. So he calls it the chili pepper because he hears up in Mexico, they call it chilies, what the Triple Alliance calls it. So that's where it came from, chili peppers. But it has no relation whatsoever to the chili or the pepper. The black pepper. Yeah, and it's been around it's actually one of the oldest domesticated crops in the Americas, actually. Yeah, it started out in South America about 6000 years ago. I saw 9000, say between five and twelve. Okay. And they don't know whether it was Bolivia or Brazil. There's a heated debate in the pepper community on the country of origin. But they do know that birds are the ones who disperse them. And birds can't feel heat in their mouth. They carry them around and propagate the seeds. And then Columbus, of course, brought them to Europe and that's how things spread. That's why you can use hot sauce or chili pepper spray or something like that on your bird seed to deter squirrels. Yeah, because the birds are fine. Yeah, but the squirrels, the squirrels just run around going hot, hot, hot. And it says here the birds can't digest pepper seeds, but nobody can really digest pepper seeds if it's a whole I totally can. No, you can't. I will show you right now. You're going to show me your stool? No, we can't digest them either because we don't digest seeds that aren't chewed because they're covered in cellulose. And it just goes straight through to our poop. Exactly. Same with corn. Yeah, because that is a seed. It is. I'm glad you finally said that. Somebody needed to say it. I think that's one of the trendy facts, don't you think? Was that corn as a seed? Yeah. Yeah, probably. Seems like I saw that all over the Internet. It's pretty hot right now. Corn and poop. Hot Topic. So I did a dump you dumb on that. On Hot Topics, man. No. Corn. Corn and your poop. Yup, yup. See? Hot Topic. So Columbus brings the stuff back and it spreads like crazy. Like syphilis. Yeah, because think about this. Chili peppers are native to the Americas and were unknown outside of the Americas until about 500 or so years ago. Now they're grown in just about every country in the world. Yeah. There's all different types of varieties, but it turns out that there's 25 wild species and five domesticated species. And one of the noteworthy things about chili peppers is most of the time when humans domesticated a wild crop, they would stop using the wild version of it because it was just so far inferior to the domesticated version. Right. Not so with chilies. Wild chilies are just as prized, if not more prized, than the domesticated ones. They're delicious. So there's five species, chuck and by the way, chili pepper is blowing to the night shade family. Yes. With potatoes, tomatoes, goji berries, eggplants, and nightshade. And the five species are fun to say. Yeah. I wouldn't even do it, but I encourage you to. Okay. Capsicum. Capsicum Fruitescence, Capsicum Bacadam, and Capsicum pubescence does have little hairs on them. Yeah, I saw that one coming. So those are the five families. Peppers are generally hot, although we'll get into all that with the varieties. Like you said, the bells. Everyone knows bells aren't very hot. Right. But what you're talking about with the heat is what's called their pungency. And the heat actually comes from alkaloids present in the pepper is called capsaicin. Yes. Which we talked about in December of 2011 with the pepper spray. Pepper spray episode. Yeah, because that's what they're using in pepper spray. If you didn't listen to it, go check it out. That's a good one. But yeah, it's kind of funny to think about. Self defense tool is really just canned hot pepper. Yeah. Because that stuff can be yeah, it really does work. And with the punditzy of a pepper, most people think that it's found in the seeds. It's actually a myth. Well, it is found in the seeds. It's not housed in the seeds. Right. So the seeds are attached to the pepper itself through something called the placenta membrane. That white stuff that's inside of a pepper. Right. And that's where the capsaicin is stored. And since the seeds are attached to the membrane, a lot of that stuff makes its way to the seeds. But if you really want the high heat, you eat the membrane. If you want the high heat, just eat the whole thing. I deseed and demmembrane mine, but if you're looking for heat, then just don't even sweat it. Literally, don't sweat it. Yeah. That's like the second, at least, pun that you've made. Oh, yeah. What was the first one? Something was they were both accidental hot. I can't remember what it was. Oh, well, those are just words. No, it was perfect. It was really great. So the pain is actually not coming from your taste buds because they don't feel pain. It's coming from pain receptors, your mouth, and it sends a message to your brain saying, this is super hot. I wouldn't eat that much unless you like it. Right. It's the same pain receptors that tell you that, say, the sip of coffee you just took is too hot or something. Is thermally too hot? It's triggered by capsaicin. It's the TRPV one receptor, and that triggers the release of a neurotransmitter called substance P. And that capsaicin can also block what's crazy is. Yes. So we'll talk about it a little more later. But capsaicin is used as a topical pain reliever, right? Like Shaquille O'Neill knows that, I think. Like I see HOS. Yes. Really? So capsaicin, if you rub it on the skin, it goes to those TRPV one receptors and basically overloads them so thoroughly that they're no longer able to transmit the sensation of pain in that area. So it's a local anesthetic. Yeah. It's pretty cool. Yeah, it is. And lots of other health benefits that we'll talk about. Peppers are great for you. Peppers are super. They do not cause ulcers. That is a myth. And in fact, they protect the stomach lining or can, and they can also thin the blood. So you need to watch out for that if you are on an anticoagulant. Yeah, I don't know if they say that on the prescription or not. The pepper prescription? No, I prescribed it in jalapeno today. No, the antiquaculant prescription. Of course it might. But if you are in a contest or just at dinner and your mouth becomes inflamed, well, you can drink water. I think it provides pretty stupid a temporary respite. I don't know if it even does that. It does for me. It basically moves the stuff around and throughout your mouth. Yes. Which is not good. What you want is something fatty, like milk. Yeah. Because capsaicin dissolves in the presence of fat. Or like if you eat a lot of Mexican food or Indian food, that sour cream and that yogurt is a nice way to smooth that out. That's what it's there for, baby. Well, that in taste and flavor and texture and everything else. Yes, I guess so. Yeah, it's not like they're like you said, some sour cream because this is too hot. Right. But it definitely helps. I read an article, actually, with a guy who was in a contest, and he was a hot pepper guy, and he described, I think he ate like three ghost peppers just in 20 seconds. And he was fine at first, then it got hot, not in his mouth, but in his throat. And then he just kept going through waves like he said it would go away. And I thought it was good. An hour later, it felt like a red hot burning nickel on my sternum, and it was just moving its way down, I guess. Man. And then he said he felt jubilation, like exhilaration, which we'll talk about this one of the effects of peppers that can pick up your mood. But he said he felt like he was on cocaine. Weird. Yeah. Because they trigger a release of endorphins. Exactly. So you can get a runner's high or some sort of high off of eating peppers. Cocaine high. Which is why some people eat peppers. It really makes them feel great. Yes. I guess this guy wasn't a runner. He must have just done some cocaine before his line, because that was his go to. You said that birds are immune to the effects of peppers and they also spread the seed by pooping it out. Right. Mammals are not immune to the effects of it, including humans. And apparently humans are the only mammals that purposely eat peppers. And it's been called a form of benign masochism. Oh, really? Yeah. Interesting. But it makes sense. And the reason why they think peppers have that kind of burning thing is to protect itself, to ward off mammals from eating it. Sure. But the idea that we can get some sort of rush from it is kind of counterintuitive, if you think about it, as far as evolution goes from the pepper standpoint. Sure. Because that encourages people to keep eating you. Yeah, it's a good point. All right, well, let's take a break here and we'll come back and talk a little bit about how the heat is measured in a hot pepper. All right, I guess we need to talk about Wilbur Scoville. Mr. Scoville, was he a doctor now? He's a pharmacist, yeah, but I wondered if he was a doctor. I think he got an honorary doctorate. He deserved one. You count those? Sure. All right. Probably depends on where it's from, what it's for, but sure. Yeah, I would. Of course. You like. You can call me Doctor. Mr. Clark. Doctor Mr. He was a pharmacist, like you said, who developed something called the Scoville Organo Leptic Test in Twelve. It's just a hilarious name for what it is. It is kind of weird, isn't it? You should just call it the chili test or something. It just made me laugh like a goon. Well, previous to this test, the only test was basically just to have people eat them and ask them how hot. It's pretty hot. Okay, that's a pretty hot pepper. Give me some milk fat. All right, technically, pork fat, whatever. You just need a slab of fat and get rid of it real quick. Yeah, they said chocolate too will help. Well, it's a fatty full of lipids. I think that's people just like to eat chocolate with their hot stuff. So Scofield says there's got to be a better way. And he says, why don't we devise a test where we have people eat peppers and ask them how hot it is? Pretty much. But let's do it in a little bit different way. Let's keep feeding them peppers that are more diluted until they can't feel heat any longer. Right. And just make it a little more organized and formal. So the Scoville heat unit is what it comes up with. Right. So, for example, a bell pepper has a zero, not hot, but say, habanero. Some types of habanero peppers can get up to, like, 500,000, I think the red something. What is it? I'm sorry. The red Savinia Habeniro pepper got up to 570,000 Scoville heat units. It's very hot. And what that means is that it would take 570,000 cups of water to dilute one cup of extract from the red Savini Habanero and one shot of milk fat. Right. Before anybody could say, I detect no heat whatsoever. Yeah. It's a tremendous amount of work. And it's not like he was pouring a whole cup of this stuff into 570,000 cups of water. It's mad. I think he just used fractions. Yeah, probably so. Yeah. Give me a minute to come to that conclusion. I was like, what kind of bat? And this guy had in his yard? A big one. So that was the old test. And even though they no longer use that, they still use that shu Scoville heat unit as the unit of measure, which I think is a nice little tip of the cap. It is. Because they could have changed it. Wilbert Scoville's ghost is like, I approve. Now, what they do is use liquid chromatography, and they've been doing that since about the seventies, and that's not specific to testing peppers. It's basically just separating and analyzing compounds of any mixture. Right. But you can target the specific type of compound. And in this case, you're looking for the alkaloid capsaicin. Yes. And you determine how many parts per million is present in a given pepper, and it takes the subjectivity out. Yeah. And it's literally just measuring the level, capsaicin level in any pepper. What's neat is they figured out Scoville is clearly onto something, because they figured out that if you take this high performance liquid chromatography measurement and multiply the number it spits out by 16, you will come to the Scoville unit that you were getting yeah. By a factor of 16. Not bad. But that's neat that it's not like 16.98 five seven or something like that. Or multiply it by the fact that you can multiply it by a standard number and come to the Scoville heat unit each time means he was doing something right. There's something there. Yeah. Scoville. Way to go. That sounds like one of the real Men of Genius commercials or something. I guess. Well, should we get to some of the types of peppers now? Are we there? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Because if you're a scientist, there's two ways to classify a pepper. By its heat, using the Scoville heat unit index, and by its shape. Yes. And then color. Well, apparently, scientists don't classify them by color. I'm talking about you and me, buddy. Hot heads. We're in the kitchen. Okay. And we're looking at peppers. Yeah. And we're like, look at that red one. Look at that green wrinkly one. Right. That one's shape funny. That's a funny shape. That's how we classify it. Red funny shaped one. Really hot wrinkly or smooth is another thing you might notice, but you're right. As far as science is concerned, it's heat and shape, and then the shapes go from shape a to shape. I right. And my favorite descriptor is the lantern shape. I think that's great. Yeah, that's the habanero. Yeah. Very thin skinned and very hot. Yes. Can you eat peppers? I didn't even ask this. I eat a lot of peppers. My heat tolerance isn't great. I do like the heat, but I'm a bit of a wimp. What kind of pepper do you normally eat? Can you eat, like, a Scotch bonnet? Well, I mean, I cook a lot with just bells. Of course, that doesn't count. Sure. They do. Okay. Because they're peppers. All right. So I cook a lot with those, but I cook a lot with Pablanos, Anaheim, chipotle, jalapenos, serranos. And chipotle is a chipotle. You just threw me off it's chipotle. Chipotle. Chipotle is a smoked cabinet, right? Yeah. And ancho is a dried serrano. Ancho is dried poblano. That's right. Ancho powder. Yeah. That's from Pueblo, Mexico. Right. Poblanos are great if you want to make a good chili know? Yeah. Because they're about the right size, and they're really just hearty, thick waxy. They hold up well. Yeah. You mean I'm aficionados of those things. Of the poblano? No, of the chili reno. Oh, yeah. Find a good one of those. Yes. You know, it's funny. In college, I worked at Mexically Grill, which I don't think is even a thing anymore. Oh, really? I know. The one in Atlanta highway closed, which was very surprised. It was an institution. Sure. And they're chili reino. Like a lot of the when you go to some kind of the cheaper Mexican places that have the menu with 80 combination dinners, a lot of times you'll find a Chileano, which is a ball of beef wrapped in cheese, sitting on top of a one inch square green bell pepper. I have not seen that one. Yeah, that was what our chili reino was basically just meat and cheese, man. No, but you want the real thing, which is stuffed in a real pepper. And a lot of people use breading. Unnecessary. I can have it both ways. Well, it's supposed to have some sort of fried wrapper around it, and the breading is usually too much. The better way to do it is like a thin omelet, almost like a crepe around it. Every once in a while, you run. Those are so good. Yes. Good stuff. All right, well, let's back up then. Okay. Back to the bells, which you don't consider peppers, evidently. Well, I mean, as far as you're talking heat. Yeah, no heat. But they're great to grill, and I can't say anything. I can't really go beyond a jalapeno. Oh, you can't stand the heat. No. So I'm frequently getting out of the kitchen, but I actually made a New Year's resolution to eat more hot stuff because I realized I'm such a total wuss when it comes to this. You can build up a tolerance, for sure. And I have. I've gotten much better at eating spicy stuff, but habanero is way too hot for me. It depends on what kind of spice it is, too. A lot of times, I'm more tolerant of some than others, but I've learned that once you get past that very unpleasant, painful sensation, there's a whole new world of tastes out there. Yeah, good point. So the bells are the little squatty. Dudes, I don't know if a lot of people know this. All the different colors of the bell pepper is the same pepper. The red bell, the green bell, the yellow bell, the orange bell. It's all the same. But they taste differently. Yes, because it's how long they're ripened. What? The green one is ripened or harvested first. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. It's all the same pepper. Wait a minute. Hold on. That's why you'll get a red pepper that still has a little green, buddy. Like a little patch of green. Wait a minute. Hold on. So you didn't know this? No. Wow. All right. Well, that didn't happen much. For real? Yeah. Well, that's great, man. Thank you for teaching us that the green peppers is picked first. That's why they're less expensive, too. And they are a little bitter, and they are not nearly as sweet. Then you have yellow, then orange, then red as they ripen. And that's why the red is the most expensive, and it's because it's the most mature. It's delicious. It is delicious. And they are sweet and kind of fruity. Have you ever smoked one? Smoked one? Roasted, yes. Oh, I do it all the time. And then you just peel the skin off? Yes. What I do? This article says to do it in the oven. I either put it on the grill I do it with fire. Yeah, fire works really well. Or just on the stove. I'll just put it on the you got a gas stove? Sure. Now it's a foot convection. You just put, like, an old piece of notebook paper on it. Roast your pepper over there. Yeah, I'll just throw the red pepper on the fire until it's all black, and then I throw it in a paper bag. I don't do paper because I don't usually plastic bags. Yeah, I'll just put it in, like, a grocery store bag. That seems carcinogenic. No, I don't think so. We'll find out. Yeah. Check back with me in 20 years. Well, because then you run into the sink and wash all that char off of it, so I don't think it's coming to contact what you're eating with the plastic. Right. So you use the sink, huh? Yeah, because it's really hot to the touch still. Well, that's the other thing that I noticed in this article. It says leave it for like 15 minutes, which seems smart. I don't ever have time for that. Got you. So I just put it under the cold water, get all the seeds in the membrane and the skin off. Got you. And then slice it up and throw it in a salad. It is delicious, man. Very delicious. Yeah. Okay. The red pepper has more because it's matured longer. Right. Has eleven times more beta carotene in green and one and a half times more vitamin C. So they're healthier. That's what you're paying for the betacarotene. That's right. Big money in beta. And then you can also have chocolate, purple, and even white bell peppers. Now you're just lying. No, I think those are just different varieties. So I don't think those are like how mature they are. Like the white ones are grown in the dark or something like that. I don't know. I have no idea. The pimento and paprika are both where they come from. Red Bells, though. Got you. And paprika is well then how does that have any kind of paprika? Has a little bit of heat to it, doesn't it? No, no. I'm thinking of cayenne pepper. Yeah, cayenne is made from hot red chilies and paprika is just smoked. Unless it's Hungarian paprika and that's sweeter and that's not smoked. Got you. So if you see a recipe that says paprika, you should probably know whether it's smoked or Hungarian. Yeah. And if not, I would probably just go with Hungarian. Oh, you think? Well, unless you just know, you want a smoky flavor. Got you. This has been quite a roller coaster. Banana peppers, very mild. Pepper, Chinese, very mild. Yeah. You get those on your Subway sandwich. Yeah. Or like as a side on a Papa John's pizza. Oh, yeah, something like that. That's right. I knew I'd seen those. And then of course, the best one of all, the Pablo pepper. Right. And then the Pimento, which we just mentioned. And that is a variety of the Red Bell, I think. And that's what they put in all of us. And cheese. Right. What about the hot guys? See, I don't mess with them that much, but yeah, like we said, there's Jalapeno, Serrano, Habanero, chipotle. So does chipotle, yeah. What do you think it was? We were saying chipotle? Were you saying chipotle? I was saying chipotle. I've always said that. And then Anaheim. Anaheim, yes. I think some people transpose the L and say chipotle. Yeah, they definitely do. I got confused. I know how to say it right, but earlier I was like, wait, it didn't sound right. And then of course, you have the delicious Thai chilies or Bird's Eye chilies, and those are really good and super hot, and they are small and thin, but pack a punch. So normally the rule of thumb is thin, long ones that are red are going to be your hottest. Yeah, right. But there's exceptions to those rules, which is a Scotch bonnet. Scotch bonnet is like, it's like more pumpkin shaped. It's like habanero. Okay. But it's less lantern shaped and more pumpkin shaped, and I think it's like a yellow orange, and it's very hot. Okay. Very frequently found in, like, Jamaican cuisine. The Scotch bonnet. Got you. If you dry the pepper out and you have, like, the ancho pepper, the chipotle dried stuff that we're talking about, it's going to be hotter. So keep that in mind. Some people who like peppers will just put them in a food dehydrator and eat them like that. Yeah. Or just let them just dry out in the sun. Sure. If you're black, you're a hippie chuck. We also said that. So if you're a scientist, you say, this pepper is shape a and has a Scoville rating of 5 trillion. Right. Okay. Then you've just described a pepper to another scientist. They know what you're talking about. Sure. But there's something called the Chili Pepper Institute. It's an institute that's associated with the University of New Mexico. And New Mexico, by the way, is the foremost domestic producer of chili peppers in the United States correct. Thanks to a man named Fabian Garcia correct. Who was a pioneer in cultivating peppers here in the United States. In 1921, he released his first variety, the New Mexico number nine. I thought you were going to say his first album, mambo. No, five. Yeah. But he's known as the father of chili peppers in the US. Yes. The North American Chile, and in India, they're the world's largest producer of chilies oh, yeah. By far. Yeah. So there's another way to describe them beyond shape, color, and heat. And the Chili Pepper Institute came up with this. It's for the heat profile, and basically there's five components to the heat profile. There's the Scoville heat unit to it. Yeah. Then there's how fast it hits. Yeah, that's a big one. Like, you were saying, that guy who ate some ghost chilies, it took a minute to come on. He's like, this isn't so bad. There are some peppers that hit, like, immediately. Yeah. So that would be the second descriptor, the second component. The third would be whether it lingers or dissipates quickly or how fast it dissipates, eventually it's going to dissipate. You hope. Yeah. And then come and burn the next day coming out the other end. And then the fourth one is where it's sensed, like, is it in the throat? Is it on your tongue? Is it in the roof of your mouth? Where does it attack, basically? And then the last one is whether it's flat or sharp. So flat is saying, I saw it in, I think, that New Yorker article or maybe the Smithsonian one that I sent you. Flat is where it's like your whole tongue is just coated in the sensation of heat, whereas sharp is where it feels like little hot needles in your mouth or something like that. And the preference in America is for a flat sensation, whereas Asian. Countries tend to prefer the sharp sensation, like the Thai chilies. Yes. Interesting. Sharp. That's right. Do you like hot Asian food? Yeah, I like curries and stuff like that. Nothing too hot, though. I'm still a pretty big woods. No. I'm the same way. And I'm also comfortable enough with myself that I don't feel the need to show off. No. Or accept a dare. No, of course not. Now. So I don't need that hottest stuff, but I will sometimes. Yeah. If you're still accepting food related dares in your late 30s or 40s, then you should seek some help. Did you read about that guy? Ted Busser or Busser? Oh, he was in the New Yorker article. That's exactly what he does. How old is he? Thirty s. Forty s. He's on YouTube, seeks some help, and he accepts challenges, food challenges. So people send him like the most disgusting thing they can find, and then he eats it on air. But one of the things that he eats are like really hot peppers and has become kind of like a de facto pepper judge. Right. Because there is this whole community out there. We'll talk about that after we take a break. How about that? So, Chuck, we kind of teased it. There's a community of chili pepper fishingados out there. Tough guys and women. Yes, I meant that in the non gender specific. Yeah. And they range from just people who like to eat them to people who make their own hot sauce, to people who are competing by growing cultivators. Yeah. The hottest peppers on the planet, literally. Yeah. And it gets pretty dicey. They get very competitive and very snippy from what I read about the legitimacy of the heat that they claim. Yeah. So there's again a really great New Yorker article called The Fire Eaters from, I think, a year or two back. And it gives a really great outsider's view of this community. And it is very snippy. One of the problems is there is no official central body that says this is the hottest pepper on the planet. Well, Guinness does. Guinness doesn't. A lot of people defer to Guinness, but some other people are like, Guinness doesn't know they don't know food. They're dilettant. What we need is a governing body that's dedicated only to chili peppers, not Guinness. Right. Yeah. And one reason why is because it changes. Like, people are cultivating these things. There could be a new hottest pepper every three months. Exactly. And Guinness isn't going to stay on top of that. Right. So there's kind of like, why are you even talking to those guys? So some people do defer to Guinness because it is the closest thing that they have to a judgment saying this is the world's hottest. People just like saying that. But there's no organizing central body that is dedicated to judging which is the hottest chili pepper. And there should be, according to these people. They could use it. Of course they think the government should supply it, but they can't even decide on whether that the hottest pepper in the world should be its peak or what it averages. It's mean. Yeah. So right now, Guinness goes by the means. And as it stands in the world, the hottest chili pepper as of August 2013 is called the Carolina Reaper. Yes. The HP 22 BNH. Seven out of Rock Hill, South Carolina. Yes. And the Carolina reaper has an average. Remember that red Savinia cabineto had 5700 Scoville heat units? Yes. This one averages 1,569,300 Scoville heat units. That's right. And a peak of over 2.2 million. Yeah. And hats off to Ed Curry of Pucker Butt Pepper Company in Fort Mill. He's a very controversial pepper grower. He is. He blended the original crossbreed was between a Ghost Pepper, which was the previous hottest pepper introduced to the North American 2000, the infamous Ghost pepper. And then he crossbreeded that with or bread that with a red Habanero. So the boot. Jillo kia is the Ghost pepper. That's from India. And from 2007 to 2013, it was the reigning champ. Yeah. And from before that was that red Savannah from 1994 to 2007. Again, that's as far as Guinness is concerned. But there are peppers out there. What's the scorpion one? The Trinidad Scorpion? Butch Tea. Yeah. That was actually grown by some guys in Australia who crossed a Trinidad Scorpion, which is already very hot, with a pepper that was grown by a guy named Butch Taylor in, I think, Mississippi. He's right outside. Big on this, as it turns out. Yeah, big time. Yeah. I think the thing is, if there's people who listen to, like, front two, four two and go Boer hunting, if there's a larger population of them in that country, that country is going to be more likely to be into eating hot peppers. What's front two for two? They're like an industrial band. Oh, really? Yeah. What does that mean about me? Because I've never even heard of it. You don't need hot peppers. Okay. There are some who claim in fact, the grower in Southern California says, I had a pepper once that was over 3 million, but I don't even publish that stuff, he says, because it's a fluke. Right. So that's the question. Like, should that one be considered the world's hottest pepper or should that plant, that species consistently have to put out something at 3 million? Yeah. Or does it matter? That's another question entirely. I know they get specific about it and they want to do it, but it seems like we can just say all of these are very hot. Very hot. You're welcome. I don't know. It's scary stuff, if you ask me. It is. Christopher Guest should do a documentary about pepper hot heads. It's ripe for it. All right, so let's say you want to pick out a pepper at a grocery store. Look for firm skin, look for super bright colors, which I don't know, I'm pretty down on produce in big box grocery stores. Yeah, but if you go to a farmer's market, and especially like a local farmers market, you're going to see weird shaped, super, super bright colored peppers. Yes, weird shaped is right. Remember we've talked about this before? Grocery stores won't sell ones that are perfectly awesome and maybe even better tasting because they look weird. Right. That bell pepper looks like Richard Nixon throw it in the trash. Yes. And it's like her arm. The longer they ripen, the hotter they get. So like you said, the red ones, if the red ones still have a little green, they're not fully ripe yet, so they probably won't be as hot. But that's the case with the bell probably. Anyway. So you're not looking for heat, right. You're looking for sweet. If you are cooking with peppers, it says in here, like, be sure to wash your hands. But what you really need to do, if you're serious is wear gloves where doctors what are they called? Rubber gloves. Yeah, rubber gloves. Because that is truly the only way if you come into contact with your fingers and that membrane or those seeds, you can wash your hands ten times and you forget and like the next day you will get an I booger out. Oh, yeah. And you'll be like, what in the world? My eyes on fire. You take your contacts out and you go to put them in the next morning. Oh, I can't imagine. I cooked one night some paella and used some hot peppers and did not wear gloves. And I went peepee later. Oh, no, I didn't think about it. And I had a speaking of syphilis burning sensation down below. It was bad. That's how they simulate it for medical students. Oh, really? It was bad. So I learned the hard way. I just got a box of those. Is it nitrate gloves? Nitrate or nitrate? One explodes, the other one's fine, I think. Well, I put them in the kitchen. I also wear a painters respiratory what kind of peppers are you working with? The hot stuff. Like ghost peppers? No, but I cook with habaneros and stuff sometimes and it's like it's nuclear. The fumes are yeah, if you're over the sink cleaning amount and you're breathing it in, you'll find yourself, or at least I do, coughing and burning. So I will wear the respirator in my club. So you mean I would juice sometimes? Oh, yeah. And every once in a while she put like a pepper in there, like a jalapeno. Interesting. And it would just turn the kitchen into a tear gas bomb had gone off. It's crazy. It gets everywhere. It does. Because these things are basically vaporized and they just spread so easily through the air. Juicing a pepper, it definitely gives it a kick. Oh, if you want to store peppers, like we said, you can dry them out, and they'll keep for a long time. You don't want to wash them. You want to just put them unwashed into your fridge. Yeah, true. And they'll just keep just regular peppers will keep for a long time. Right. It's not something that goes bad very quickly, but you can freeze them if you slice them, put them on a baking tray in the freezer, then you can collect them and just throw them in a bag, and you can keep them for, like, a year. Nice. But I don't see why you would freeze peppers. Just buy the amount you need and cook with them or pickle them. That's great. Pickled peppers are wonderful. I can just eat those straight. I don't like pickled things, so I'm not into it. Yeah, I know. It's so good for you. Pickling. Pickled foods are so good for you. There are so many health benefits. Eat other healthy things that I enjoy. But how do you not like pickled stuff? Like I could eat pickled. You could cut your finger off and pickle it. I'd probably eat it. How does anyone not like anything? But I mean, what about it? You don't like the tartness? No, just the taste. Anything pickled. Like a pickle sauerkraut. You don't like sauerkraut? I hate sauerkraut. I guess I could have seen that dude. Pickled. I hate pickled so much that I have to ask and rest. Like, when I go to a pub and have, like, a burger and fries to leave the pickle off, because invariably they will put the pickle down, soaking into the French fries and the bun, and it'll ruin that for me. Wow, you hate pickles that much? I hate pickles that much. Well, I'll eat the pickles that you get on the side for now. Okay, well, Emily eats the pickles you can arm wrestle her for. Okay, that's fine. That's a deal. But when I said you shouldn't just buy the amount if you're growing pickles or I'm sorry, growing peppers pickles. Pickled peppers. Then you might end up with a lot of peppers, and that's why you might want to pickle them or pickle them if you're into that. Yes, because we grew peppers one year, and they were easy to grow. And bountiful. Yeah. Pepper plank goes. Yeah, that equals a lot of peppers. I guess we should talk about growing them a little bit, huh? I guess so. They're perennials, so that means they stick around and well, it depends on where you live. Yeah. If it's cold, you might grow them as annuals. Right. They're pretty flexible. You can start them as seeds ten weeks prior to the first frost. You want to germinate them in little trays first. You soak the seeds for a couple of days, then you germinate them with a little bit of starter. Ten weeks prior to frost. After the last frost comes and goes, you can start to harden them by moving them outside a couple of hours at a time and talk to them, say, this is good for you. Right. You shake them. Yeah. It takes a couple of weeks, a few hours each day more, until they are hard and ready. Right. And then they start to grow. You want to fertilize them. When the peppers grow out and turn hard, you can cut them. And when you do, you want to cut some stem because it extends their shelf life. And then you have peppers. You can also just go to the store and buy some peppers. Yeah. If you're into gardening garden, yeah. If not I've just grown from seed, man. It seems like such a nightmare to me. Well, it's for people who have time and our hobbyists. But I also get, like if it's an heirloom something or just something you're not going to find anywhere with peppers. Sure, there are some. Like if you want to buy the Carolina Reaper, you can get packs of those seeds for like $10 or something. Right. You're not going to find those at any store. So I get growing those from seed. But like, growing like, a squash plant from seed, it's like, what are you doing, man? You should have better things to do with your time than that. We grew squash last year from seed. Yeah. What are you doing, man? We have a garden. Right, but you can just buy, like, the seedlings. Yeah, you could do that. Okay. Are you saying why do people garden? No, I love gardening. Okay. I'm just saying growing from seed a plant. Like, if you like growing from seed, you should get a seed catalog and find something that you can't find elsewhere. That's what I'm saying. I have a very strong opinion on growing things with everything but gardening. But gardening, right. We use starter plants a lot, too. Not everything is from seed. Because you're saying sensible people. But do you see my point? I guess. Do you get seed catalogs to find a look through? Not catalogs, I don't think, but we buy seeds online. You should get your hands on seed catalog. Yeah, yeah. I can't remember the name of the company. That sounds like good toilet book reading. Yes, it is. Yes. It's very delightful. It makes you so excited for spring off. Label uses of peppers will say you can eat them or you can rub them on your pain parts. Yeah. Because remember, they overload your nociceptor, that's right. They can lower your blood pressure. They can be anticoagulants. I think that's one in the same. Think about it. If it thins the blood, it's going to also lower your blood pressure. True, I would think. Okay. It's also been shown, Chuck, it lowers bad cholesterol. Not just any cholesterol. It lowers your bad cholesterol. And not only does it lower the cholesterol present in your blood, I think it attracts it. Right. Because remember, it's fat soluble and then it gets flushed out of the system. It actually removes the build up of bad cholesterol plaque in your arteries. Man, this stuff, it makes me want to eat more peppers. I already eat quite a bit of peppers. I need to eat more. I think it's good. In the future, they hope to use it for cancer prevention, stroke, heart attack prevention. I guess it already works as that if it's lowering your blood pressure. That's what I got from that, too. Yes, but the cancer, it's its own thing they found that capsaicin itself basically attacks tumors. Wow. Are you upset about the growing from seed tyranny? Oh, no, I don't care. Okay, good. What, like, it was directed at me? Yeah. I didn't mean for it to be no. But it took a pretty hard turn at the end. There. No right to your front door. I don't care. Right to your garden door. No. We have an article called can Ghost Peppers Kill You? On our website. It cannot. It's not good, but apparently \u00a33 of peppers can kill you. Is that right? Yeah. How like, what's the mode of death? I don't know. They don't say. That's why it's not a good article. Well, so these pain receptors, the TRP, I mean, it's a toxin. Capsaicin is TRPV one. They're also responsible for regulating your body heat, helping regulate your body heat. So I wonder if you have, like a heat stroke or something like that. I don't know. I would just say if it's a toxin and you eat too much of any toxin, you could die. Yeah, but you die from, like, some toxins slow your respiration, and you stop breathing from lack of oxygen. You know what? I bet you have something to do with respiration, because if you are in a hot pepper eating contest, one thing they will talk about is their throat swelling and having a hard time breathing. That'd be my guess. I think there was a Science Daily article originally that said that. So there was a speaking of ghost peppers, up until last year, in 2014, there was a restaurant in Grantham, Lincolnshire, which I take to be in England, probably called Bindi. The restaurant was named Bindi. It was an Indian restaurant, and it had a curry called The Widower that used 20 ghost peppers, among a ton of other ones. And apparently they had sold like 500, 600 of them. And about three quarters of the people finished it. Managed to finish it. Not bad. Which yeah, if you think like the ghost pepper, that was like the one that got all the press in 2007. I think what's remarkable is that people that are ordering this or probably have a very high tolerance anyway, and if they're not able to finish it, that says a lot. Exactly. So that's chili peppers, everybody go forth and eat something. You said that it doesn't give you ulcers, and in fact, it actually helps with cases of ulcers. Right. That's right? Isn't that amazing? It is. Okay, so if you want to know more about chili peppers, you can type that word into the search bar houseofworks.com and it will bring up this article. And I said, search bar. I'm going to call this a rarely granted shout out. We get requests a lot for shout outs and we couldn't do them all otherwise our show would be called Shoutouts you should Know. But this one was from a 14 year old girl who sounded very sweet, so I'm reading it. Hi guys, I'm a 14 year old girl who's been listening for a long time and I wanted to say thanks for the time that you spend to make it smarter. It's been really fun for my sister Anna and I to listen to your podcast before you go to sleep. However, she's leaving for college soon to study studio art and I'll be all alone when I listen to you guys. So if it isn't too much to ask, could you give her a shout out and tell her that she is an awesome sister and will be missed. Sarah, you could tell her that yourself too, by the way. You should express your emotions. I don't like to talk. You can also say to my brothers Jonathan, Stephen and Tommy that they are okay. Too many kids are in this family. Sounds like 12345 is my guess. She said no. Don't mention the 6th one. Just kidding. If you do this, then you guys will be the best podcasters ever. Not like you aren't already. Actually, Anna just sent an email, or maybe it's Anna to you guys last night about hula hoops and if you could put both our emails on the air, that would be the best. I'm not going to do that, but I did write her back. So this is a secret from Anna, so it would be a big surprise. So Sarah to Anna. Anna, good luck at college. You will be missed. You're a great sister. That's so nice. The brothers Jonathan, Stephen and Tommy. You guys are okay, man. That was nice. Very kind of you never know. Well, if you want to see if you can target Chuck's heartstrings, give her your best shot. Good luck. You can tweet to us at syscast. You can join us on Facebook.com stuffychhoodnow. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast athousepworks.com and as always, join us at our home on the web stuffyshow.com. Stuff you should know is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My Heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows." | |
10 Bizarre Medical Treatments | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/10-bizarre-medical-treatments | Medical science has a long and storied history of trying out cures and procedures that later strike us as wacky. And they're still at it today! Learn about bizarre treatments, from opium for children to tobacco smoke enemas in this episode. | Medical science has a long and storied history of trying out cures and procedures that later strike us as wacky. And they're still at it today! Learn about bizarre treatments, from opium for children to tobacco smoke enemas in this episode. | Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:25:07 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2015, tm_mon=3, tm_mday=24, tm_hour=16, tm_min=25, tm_sec=7, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=83, tm_isdst=0) | 42364423 | audio/mpeg | "Welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clarke. There's Charles W, Chuck Bryant and there's Jerry to my right. This is stuff you should know. Why are your eyes closed? You sound like sweaty balls. Alice Baldwin shweaty balls from starting out live. And that just wasted right over here. Now I'm on Mellow. You mello? Yeah. You IRI. Yes. I love that. The beginning of this article talks about Botox. I thought it was a pretty good intro. It was, though. It said, One day we're going to look back on injecting Botulinum Toxin A into your face and think, that's just crazy. I think it's crazy now. Oh, okay. Yeah, I see what you mean. It's nuts. Yeah. If you step back and look at it, for sure. Paralyzing your face muscles to look younger. Yeah. Especially if you've ever seen Dead Calm. Did you ever see that movie? Yeah. Out on the water with the boat? Yeah. Remember he said that's what happened to the other people on the boat is that they all got botulism and died? I don't remember that. Yeah, that was his whole set up. His excuse or his explanation for what happened was Botulism. But yeah, that's what I think of when I think Botulism is dead calm. And with Botox, he end up looking like a freak. Oh, don't be judgmental. Not being judgmental, but it was pretty judgmental. No, that's judgmental, I guess. But, yeah, I think that's my stance. If you want to do that, then more power to you. But I think people look weird when they look consistently surprised, so they don't use it just for that. They used to treat migraines, excessive sweatiness, I should get it. Also known as hyperhydrosis. Yeah. What Botox? Like in the armpit or the hands? Yeah, like directly in there. I guess this toxin goes in and deadens the nerve cells. Maybe. I can't remember. The point is, we're both agreed sure. Even in a roundabout way, that it is a very strange, bizarre, you might say, medical treatment to inject toxin into your face to look youthful. Yeah, I was judgy I take it all back. That's all right. People want to do what they want to do, that's fine. My personal feeling is that it doesn't have the desired effect to make you look like you think. You look proud of you. Thank you. So, Chuck botulism. Botulin. Botox, we should say, is pretty much nothing compared to some of the other stuff that we've used in the past and in some cases still continue to use, because this is all based on an article on how the works called Ten Bizarre Treatments Doctors Used to Think We're Legit. It turns out that some of the stuff actually still is legit. Yeah. And we should plug our friends over at Saw Bones. Yeah. Justin and his wife Doctor Sydney McIlroy. And Justin does my brother and my brother and me podcast with his brothers. They have a spin off? Not spin off. They have their own podcast with saw bones where they talk about antiquated medical that's all they talk about, right, is antiquated medical treatments. And they said they were inspired by our podcast to start that one. Yeah. But every time we send somebody over to listen to them, they don't come back. Yeah. Stop it. I guess we created a monster. But anyway, we are in turn inspired by them and just a big blow fest. We're blowing smoke up each other's butts. Tobacco smoke. I tried to see if that was literally where that term came from to blow smoke up your arse, but all it did was redirect to the fact that people used to do this for real. And I don't know if that's really where the term came from or not. I don't either. I can tell you where the treatment supposedly came from. Yeah. It came from a legend. It looks like a legend. I think at the time, they took it as a factual story that a man rescued his drowned wife from a river, I think in France, and didn't know what to do. And a soldier just happened to walk by and said, take this pipe and stick one end into a rectum and blow on the lid end until she comes, too. I don't think we even said yet what we're talking about, which is a tobacco enema. We're no sawbones tobacco enema is literally blowing tobacco smoke up the rectum of an individual for a health reason. Right. And in this case, the original reason was to revive a drowning victim, which is apparently what it was initially used for when it came into widespread use. And I guess it was in widespread use. And apparently it did work. In this initial legend, the wife came to on the fifth blow and went to a local bar and got a drink and then went home after being resuscitated from drowning and then having a pipe in her rectum with smoke blown up her butt. Yes. And there's speculation that if it did work, it was the intrusion of the pipe or later on the bellows that probably did it. But the thinking at the time was that nicotine was a stimulant and that this would directly stimulate the person back to life. That's right. You mentioned drowning victims. That was so commonly used as a method for helping drowning victims that this equipment was put alongside major waterways, very much like we would have a defibrillator today. They had these along, like the river Thames, and you had to know where they were. And in 1774, doctors William Hawes and Thomas Cogan in London formed the institution for affording immediate relief to persons apparently dead from drowning. And they later changed the name to the royal humane Society. That makes a lot better. And they promoted this method by paying people for guineas to anyone who could successfully revive a drowning victim, I'll bet in those kids along the waterways to go to use it, and the tobacco would be missing because local twelve year olds have gotten into it. That's a good point. And there was even a little rhyme at the British Medical Association in 1774 at a meeting, tobacco glister, because it was also called glister, G-L-Y-S-T-E-R. These kits tobacco glister breathe and bleed, keep warm and rub till you succeed and spare no pains for what you do. May 1 day be repaid to you. What is going on? You know, what goes around comes around. What's going on, England, where I guess if you're giving a tobacco enema to somebody and you know that little rhyme, you probably would stop, because you'd be like, I don't want this coming back to me. I just rather pass on to the next world. Well, Dr. Richard Mead was the first guy who pioneered this in mid 17 hundreds. And by 1811 it was Kaput, because they were like, no, this is not working and it's bad for you. Yeah. And you're blowing smoke up someone's butt. Right. What are you thinking? And then later on, doctors were used to prescribe cigarettes going through the other end. That's right. Which is all untrue, supposedly. Oh, really? Yeah. I guess that was the Edward Bernays thing. Oh, yeah. Intent. All right, next up we have a mercury. If you've ever heard or if you've ever seen the awesome exhibit the Terracotta soldiers. Do you ever see that? No. China's first emperor, King Chihuang, he was the one with the terrakatta soldiers. Yeah, he was the one that was buried in this basically underground city that was so vast and had all these terracotta soldiers guarding him. And his own specific to him, I was about to say rated much of it, but they've explored much of it. But not his actual tomb still, because it has a moat of liquid mercury around it. So he's still in situ because of the that's pretty neat. And he took the stuff to make himself immortal, which is ironic because it's super toxic and it killed him before he was 40. Yeah. But at the opposite effect it did. His death didn't apparently get out to the rest of the world because mercury was used in other kinds of medicines for a very long time, apparently. Up until the 40s, if you had syphilis, your doctor would give you some sort of ointment, sometimes an injection of mercury to treat syphilis. Yeah. And it may or may not have treated syphilis, but it would definitely make your teeth fall out and make you, what would, I guess, generously be called? Agitated. Yes. There's a host of horrible things that can happen to you for mercury exposure. Yeah. Like death. Cinnabar was what they used in China as their or mercury for 2000 years. And I find it crazy that I know it was the first emperor of China. It was a long time ago, but it just seems weird that, hey, take this thing to make you live forever when it's actually one of the most toxic things you can put in your body. Yes. They had it backwards. Supposedly. Jeremy Piven had mercury poisoning in 2008. Sushi. Right. He was eating sushi twice a day. I remember that. And then I heard that sushi. And then I think I remember hearing that that wasn't true, and it was maybe it was, like, made up to get out of a movie or something. I don't know. I still looking at it again. I definitely remember when that happened, though. Yeah. Pretty strange. Sure. I mean, I love Sushi. Like, anyone go back and listen to a sushi podcast, but I've never had mercury poisoning, so Chuck up next is one of my favorites. But I could find almost nothing more on this. I found that it did, in fact, exist. Yeah, me, too. And there's schematics and stuff on the Internet, but the Whirling chair, there's not much to it. No. Again, mid 19th century, when the mentally ill were treated very poorly, locked away, put in iron cages, they had one thing I found called a tranquilizing chair. And basically, it looks like an electric chair. You're just sitting up, completely strapped in, but you have a box over your head. Well, what's funny is that was one of the more humane techniques for treating mental illness that was, like, the result of the humanism progressive movement from the mid 19th century. That's crazy and sad. Oh, yeah. The history of the treatment of mental illness. Not just like yeah, we've talked about it a lot. It's just across the ages. It's really, really sad. Yes. Very misunderstood and still is in a lot of ways. But the Whirling chair was not a lobotomy. It was not an ice shower or a laxative or an insulin coma. Or an insulin coma. It was much better. It was a chair with a spring and lever system, basically, where it looks like they had it was hooked up to like a crank. Yeah, like a crank that you basically just spun these people around until they passed out. Yeah. And based on the schematics I saw, if you were the operator, you had to wear pantaloons. Yes, that's right. And apparently they would say it would cure your schizophrenia because it would shuffle the contents of your brain just the right way. Yeah. Like, imagine being strapped to a chair that was spun around, where you became so dizzy that you passed out. And on top of it, you have schizophrenia. Right. And then on top of that, they came out and you say, how are you feeling? Are you cured? I'm cured, yes. Can I please go home now? Yes. Seriously, they're like, hey, at least we're not burning you at the stake for being a witch. I wish there was more out there on that, too, though I think a lot of this stuff went the way the dodo so there's not much info on it. Yeah. I mean, there's nothing. It's just there was such a thing as the whirling chair. Here's how it worked. And the reason why they used it was to rearrange your brain if you had schizophrenia. That's right. So we'll keep going because this is a lot of fun. Yes, it is. But first we have to take a commercial break, and we will do that right now. And we're back. Chuck and Chuck, do you remember what did we record on yesterday when we were talking about antioxidant? So remember we talked about how oxygen goes through and steals electrons from other atoms and other molecules to stabilize itself, and that's the process of oxidation. If you take that process and multiply it by powers of millions, what you have is radiation poisoning. Exposure to high levels of radiation is what I'm trying to say. Yes, for the most part, we do everything we can to avoid this kind of thing. But it turns out that in the late 19th century, early 20th century, there were a lot of products on the shelf that did the opposite, that introduced radiation in the form of radium in the hopes that it would promote health and cure disease. Yes. Mary and Pierre Curie discovered it in 1898 and by the US. Was manufacturing synthetic radium to use in such things like radium chocolata from Birken Brown or radium bread from the Hippman block bakery. Radium bread? It's bread baked with radium water and popular until 1936. And radium water was a big thing. The reason why it was a big thing, apparently it kicked all of this off because there are natural spas in places like Hot Springs, Arkansas. And somebody started investigating the waters and found radon there. They said, well, radon that's radioactive. Where can we find that? They said, how about radium? So they started putting radium and everything. Yeah. Here's some of the other products. And you can look this up. They're a lot of fun. When you look at these old school ads for the navigator, it was a radium lace bucket, basically with a little spigot. It's like a little water tank of water. So it just introduced radiation to whatever water you put in. Yes. Or you could get what they call the radium coin that you could just drop it like an alkaline or into your water. Nice. There was the radium scope, which is a toy in 1942 that offered the luminescence. And the ad also said, it also doubles as a wonderful night light because it glows. No. Oh, yeah. Wow. It was for kids. Wow. Toothpaste from a man named Alfred Curie, who was no relation, really, even though he used that to his advantage, I'm sure the Curie name. And he also had the faux radio brand of cosmetics rejuvenates and brightens the skin this also kind of brings to focus why little kids chemistry sets frequently included radioactive materials, like in the middle of the 20th century. Does it glow? Well, no, because you could get it in water if you wanted to, or cosmetics or contraceptives or chocolate. So why wouldn't you put it in a kid's chemistry set, too? Sure. So before I didn't understand that. Now I understand. So supposedly the trend really started to die off in the 30s, though, thanks to something called RadiThor. And RadiThor was a little tincture that you would take these little couple of fluid ounce bottles that were highly radioactive. They had just tons of radium in them. And I guess one of the owners or one of the investors in the company, his name was Ebin Byers, he was a pro golfer, too, I believe he very publicly died of radiation poisoning because he drank three bottles of this stuff a day. Wow. So after that, the public was like, maybe we shouldn't be doing this anymore. Well, another thing they used it for, between 1917 and 1926, the US. Radium Corporation used luminous paint to paint clocks, clock faces, so you could see them. And workers were even taught to shape paint brushes with their mouths to maintain a finer point. So they were sticking the paintbrushes with the paint on them in their mouth, and they encouraged them to paint their nails, their teeth, and to ingest it. But management, suspiciously always stayed away and avoided exposure themselves. And I know there were a bunch of lawsuits because of that. And the other thing I found, too, was they used it before viagra and Cialis. They called them bougies. B-O-U-G-I-E-S. Radioactive wax rods inserted into the urethra. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, for a number of reasons. Yeah. Or they had, like, an athletic supporter containing a layer of radium impregnated fabric that you would wear if you had trouble getting an erection. It's not nearly as bad as the rods. No. All right. How about Euro therapy? Dude? So this one apparently is labeled quack medicine, but there's a lot of it makes sense intuitively. Yeah. So ural therapy, drinking or ingesting or having your own urine shot into your bloodstream. Yeah. Some people inject it. Yeah. It's still a thing. It is still a thing, yeah. Here's why. Urine is a byproduct of the blood. 95% of your urine is water, two and a half percent, minerals, stuff like that, salts, things like that. Apparently, if your blood is toxic, you have toxins in your blood, your body is triggered to clean it out, and your urine is clean. If your urine has toxins in it, your blood is cleaned out, too. There's like the symbiotic feedback loop, where if one is clean, the other one is clean. If one is toxic, the other one is toxic. And that you can trigger a blood cleaning, your blood cleaning drive, supposedly by drinking your own urine. By reintroducing the toxins over and over again, your blood could be conceivably cleaner. That's the thinking behind this. Again, intuitively, it makes sense. Yeah. Some people still think it can stimulate your immune system and actually fight cancer. Exactly. Basically by making your body, basically, your immune system react more vigorously. Right. It's like running it through the ringer on purpose. Yeah. The problem is there's no evidence behind it. Exactly. There have been individual reports of it stopping cancer growth, but no scientific evidence has come out in favor of it. But people still do it. Yeah. And there's also been tons of stories about people surviving for days and weeks by drinking their own urine after being trapped in, like, a collapsed hotel or something like that. Right. But yeah, there's still, I guess, pockets of people who engage in urine therapy. Yeah. And also, we should mention that it does not help your jellyfish sting. I did it. Don't be dumb on that. Really? It actually definitely makes your jellyfish thing worse. That's another one of the things, like, why do people say that if it makes it worse? I don't know. It was an episode of Friends, for God's sake. I know. They propagated the lie. Jerks. Who peed on who? I can't remember. I think didn't they all pee on Monica? Yeah, I think Monica got peed on, but I don't know if it was everybody. Maybe it was everybody. Of course they didn't show it. It probably wouldn't have been. I don't know. Yes, I think it was Courtney Cox. All right, this next one bit of a warning. It is sexual in nature, so if you're listening, maybe you should go ask your mom or dad if you should continue listening. If you're a child yeah. An honest kid or no, if you're an adult, tell if your elderly mother or father cannot listen to something about the female orgasm. Right. Which supposedly, apparently, especially in the Victorian age, but for centuries before that was widely considered not to exist. Yeah. But strangely, there was a medical procedure that women would undergo called a pelvic massage. Yes. To treat I don't think we even said hysteria. Right. Because women were hysterical, quote unquote. Right. They couldn't have orgasms, but they could have hysteria. Yeah. Which we should point out what the hysteria was is normal female sexuality. Okay. We know that now. Right. But back then, it was hysteria. So somehow, somewhere along the way and apparently, there's evidence that in ancient Greece, the pelvic massage was carried out. Yes. But in the Victorian age, you would go to your doctor, if you're a woman, and get a pelvic massage, and then you would be brought to what was called hysterical paroxysm, which is orgasm. Which didn't exist. That's right. It was hysteria. Or wandering womb was what it was also called. The wandering room was different. Oh, it was? Yeah. That was, like, the idea. And apparently, hippocrates either at least espoused it if he didn't come up with it. That was the idea that the womb or the uterus floated freely inside the woman, and if it moved around too far, it could cause all sorts of other problems. Got you. So it's different than hysteria, but the treatment was the same. Yes. Which was bringing a woman to climax. Right. A doctor hysterical paroxysm. Yes. And the doctor would do this initially using his hands. And I read one article from the New York Times about it and said, there is no evidence that the male physicians enjoyed this. On the contrary, this male elite sought every opportunity to substitute other devices or have the husband or midwife come in and take care of business for them. Got you. So it wasn't some pervy doctor. There's a lot of misunderstanding going on at the time. All over. They said by the end of the 19th century, 75% of women suffered from hysteria, which can also be read as 75% of American women were normal sexual human beings. And I guess the other 25% were just repressed and didn't know they should be or could be normal sexual human beings. Right. So it's just crazy. They call the hysteria and that it went up until the 19 and 20s. So you were saying that doctors were looking for any kind of substitute they could get their hands on. Well, apparently in the late 19th century, somebody introduced the vibrator. After that, it became a medical device originally when it was introduced. Right. Yeah. Because it brought that time to achieve the hysterical paroxysm down from anywhere up to an hour, down to about ten minutes, ideally. And you could buy them at Sears and Roebuck. It was, like you said, a medical device. And women love them. And by the 1920s, they started to peer in erotic films, and that's when people were like, oh, well, this is not something we should use. This is no longer a medical device. Yes. Which is interesting. It's all sort of backwards, isn't it? So this one to me, Chuck. The next one leeches. Yeah. We talked a little bit about medical leeches before because they are still around, which is kind of hard to believe if you've never heard that little tidbit. Yeah. This is why in the intro, I was saying, like, hey, some of this stuff still works. Right. And leeches are a sterling example of that. So for a very long time, barbers were originally called barber surgeons. Yeah. And they were called that because they would perform lots of surgery, which is why the barber pole is red and white. They would hang their bloody towels and they would flip around in the wind. And the barber pole is symbolic of that. Bloody towels whipped around in the wind outside of barbers. Yeah. Supposedly. That's the legend, as far as I know. I think it was true. I believe it. But one of the things that barbers would engage in was blood. Blooding, yeah. You remember the old shylisk with Steve Martin? Years ago, he was a barber. This is in the Think when he was a guest. And people come in for everything, and he's like, you just need a good bleeding. Like everything under the sun, people come in for let's just put a lancet in there and open up a vein and see what happens. Yeah. And that's basically what they did. It was more spiritual thing, like the evil spirits would be out through your blood. Or like we mentioned in the anesthesia episode, they would use that for anesthesia and do stupor through blood loss, but they wouldn't always use lancets. And apparently that was one of the reasons why George Washington may have died, was just too much blood lighting. Oh, really? His doctor really put his foot on the gas with bloodletting when he was on his deathbed. She go to Mount Vernon, didn't she? Go? Yeah, I've been a couple of times. There was like a whole they have, like, I think the bloodletting bowl that they used on them still there. Oh, I didn't even notice. There's a separate museum that's brand new. I went to all that stuff. Is that where it is? Yeah, but there's the bed that he died in right there. Yeah, you can go laying it floodlighting balls right there. Yes. You can't go lay in it. But rather than lancets, they would also sometimes use or very frequently used leeches. And they've been using them for thousands of years, apparently for bloodletting. Yeah. And this was back when they practiced what was known as humoral medicine based on the four humors in the body, which, as everyone knows, because of the popular T shirt we sell flim, yellow bile, black bile, and blood are the four humors. Right. What T shirt do we sell? I was just kidding. We should have one. Yeah, totally. The four humors. Just have that on there and then S y SK on the front. Okay. We can be a big seller. Yeah, sure. Who doesn't want a shirt that says black bile and flam? Yeah, flam. So with blood lighting or with using leeches for bloodletting? Everyone who I think it was the Indians originally from India who came up with this using leeches for bloodletting. And they were really onto something, because, like you said, medical leeches are still in use today here in the United States. They are an FDA approved medical device. That's right. And leeches secretes something called heroodin. That's what I'm going with. Houdin. H-I-R-U-D-I-N. Although the guy from Cell Bones would have said it. Right. And in their saliva, you will find harudin. And harudin is an anticoagulant? No, it's a coagulant. So it keeps you from bleeding to death. Right. It has antibiotic properties. It's a numbing agent and it's a vasodilator. Right? Yeah. Which means that it relaxes your blood. So it can flow more freely. That's right. But it also is an anticoagulant, so you don't bleed to death. A coagulant. All of this in leach saliva. Yeah. And they use it today for skin grafts and for when they reattach limbs, that kind of thing. Yeah. I think we had someone even write in and send us pictures of their medical leeches, which are in little vials. It's pretty cool. It's pretty neat. But I mean, this is ancient, ancient, millennia old medical technique that is still to this day used, and it's an FDA approved medical device now. Leeches are I just think that's really cool. It is super cool, because it means they're still an open mind in the medical community. Oh, yeah, it's way open. We'll try whatever. We are going to keep going. I say we do all ten for the first time ever. What about you? Yeah, let's do it. All right. We're going to keep going right after this. All right, Chuck, we're back. Yeah, man. We're taking it home with I'm taking some medicine, man. Some cocaine and opium. I bought it at the cornerstore. Yeah, and then you could buy your rig to inject it from the Sears catalog. Yeah. My cocaine kit. Yeah. And scene. Were we doing a scene? I was playing myself. Apparently, you could get morphine, cocaine, all this stuff, very easily and in tons of medical or medicine and elixirs that you would buy over the counter in the 19th century. Yeah. Not just medicines. Cocaine was in a lot of stuff, most notably Coca Cola at first, cocaine tooth drops, give your kids cocaine throat lozenges. You just reminded me. We did a gallery. There's a gallery on stuff you should know. Like, you have the cocaine poster, right? The kid yes. Cocaine tooth drop. Yeah. It's like crazy medical ads or pharmaceutical ads from yesteryear. We'll put that up when this is really good stuff. Yeah, but that one's in there, the cocaine tooth drops, and it's got like, a little kid playing happy because he's on cocaine. Yeah. Playing vigorously. And look at this kid. Did you see Mrs. Winslow's soothing syrup for teething children? I did. Look at how wasted that kid is. Yeah. He can't even pick his head up off the pillow. It's hilarious. His eyes are half lidded. He's like, I love teething. For the throat loss injures the ad says indispensable for singers, teachers, and orators to quiet a sore throat and to quiet the demons in your head. Yeah. Or to add the demons in your head. Or how about this cocaine wine? The coca wine market was really big. I've not heard of that. Yeah, the Vin Mariana was the most recognized and most popular brand at the time, but there were a lot of them, and that's just cocaine. We also talked about opium. There was something I saw another ad for something called stickney and pores paragoric. And McCormick made that the popular spice. Maker. And they even have the recommended doses for infants, children, and adults. And it was 46% alcohol, and the rest was opium. Wow. 92 proof, man. Oh, is that Ladanum or ladinium? Oh, Lordanom. Yeah. No, but that was like an opium alcohol mixer. Yeah, maybe. I guess it was laudingum. Is that how you say it? Loudnum? Yeah, I think so. Got you. It's not the same as delauded, right? Right. But deloitte is an opiate. But it's just a straight up opiate that's used for medicine. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. People just used to put a few drops under their tongue and, like, it would start their child or I know we've talked about the Soderberg's TV show The Nick. The Nick? Is that on still? I don't know. I haven't kept up with it lately. But in the opening episodes, I mean, the doctor what's? His face is like shooting cocaine between his toes on a daily basis. I watched Ed Wood again the other day. First of all, it's even better than ever. It's great movie. Bill Murray is so great. Yeah. And then I forgot, Martin Landau is, like, a junkie in it. Yeah, he's an opium peanut. Yeah, but he injects it using his Sears and Roebuck opium injection kit. Oh, was it Sears and Robuck? No, but probably. Yeah. They used to sell lots of crazy things, so yeah. Strong drugs available over the counter until people wised up and started making strong drugs pharmaceutical style. Right. Yeah. They're like, you can't have this anymore unless you come to the hospital. Exactly. Then we'll hook you up. How about trepination? Man? Which you pointed out we talked about before in the Lobotomy episode. I think so. I know we've mentioned it at some point because we talked about the movie Pie. Yeah. Where spoiler alert. Oh, yeah. Big spoiler. That's how it ends. Yeah. Selfrepination it turns out that people have done that. There was a guy named Bart Hughes who was, I guess, kind of like a crazy genius from the we're. Just crazy. He decided that our brains originally were constructed for us to be walking on all fours. And once we started walking upright, the blood supply to our brain was diminished. Makes sense in a weird way. He also decided that our skulls had grown to decrease blood flow in the brain, and that the best way to counteract this was to cut a hole in your skull to allow more blood flow. Yeah, that's what trepination is, drilling a hole in your skull. Right. Or cutting a whole piece, a square, a circle, like removing a sizable chunk. There's evidence of trepidation that goes back thousands of years. Like 10,000 years. Yeah. And some of these skulls show almost half the skull removed. But what's crazy is, with trepidation, including Bart Hugh's own self, trepination, the patient frequently survived. And this is long before anesthesia we're talking again 10,000 years ago where people were basically held down and somebody in, say, Peru or Mesoamerica or India or Russia all over the place. This practice was carried out. They would grab an obsidian rock and start shaving away at the scalp and then basically chisel out a portion of the skull and remove it to allow the brain to well, either to allow evil spirits out. Yeah. Back then, that was more of the line of thought. Or it's possible that they were treating an injury and this would reduce brain swelling. I found a great article in Vice. They did an interview with Amanda Fielding, who, in the 19th 70s, treepand herself. She was a follower of Bart Hughes. All bet she was. I think she's the director of the Beckley Foundation who does research into consciousness man. And she actually made a little film of her doing it that you can watch. It looks like super eight, and it's like super choppy. It's not very intensive, but two and a half stars. But two and a half stars, two tomatoes. But it does show her drilling herself in the head. She said she was very cautious and prepared very carefully, but she used an electric drill with a flat bottom and a foot pedal, tested the drill on the membranes of my hand to see if it would damage the skin, and then did it and made a film about it. And then afterward, I wrapped my head in the scarf, ate a steak to replace iron from lost blood, and went to a party. And she points out that she's not advocating self trepination at all. Yeah, but she said it benefited her. She said there was a feeling of the tide coming in slowly and gently, very subtly. One thing she really noticed was a change in her dream patterns. Her dreams became much less anxious. But she also says that it could be a placebo as well. She acknowledges all that, but it was interesting. I mean, this was the I think she was a follower of that guy because she said that the loss of pulse pressure in the brain when your Fontanelle's closed, basically, is the reason that she did it. Like, she fully believed that that's Bart Hughes all over the place. Yeah, totally. So don't do it, people. Now, do we need to say that? I don't think so. I hope not. All right, we got one more. You thought it couldn't get any weirder. Corpse medicine, aka cannibalism. Yeah, that's another way to put it. We did not cover in cannibalism weirdly, did we? I'd be surprised. I think we did pretty comprehensive if we didn't. You don't remember doing it, of course. That doesn't mean anything. So corpse medicine or cannibalism is basically eating human flesh to cure disease. And apparently it started out with the Egyptians, who decided that if you ate mummies yeah. Or mummy powder at least yeah. It could cure a lot of different diseases. Yeah. Like muscle aches and headaches. They also would rub human fat topically on your body if they thought something was wrong. Drinking the blood of a gladiator in ancient Rome was supposedly enough to cure your epilepsy. Yeah. How about that? Yeah, drinking blood is a big one, just throughout the ages. And speaking of mummies, also, it wasn't just food. There's this awesome Cult of Weird article about mummy brown, where up until the 19th century, I think maybe even the 20th century, mummies were used to make a specific type of brown pigment used in paints called Mummya. Interesting. Yeah. And then the artists started to figure out where it was actually coming from, and they stopped using it. But mummia brown came from mummies. Is that still a color? I think, yeah. So you can get, like, bare premium plus mummy and brown. Right. I don't think it's made with mummies anymore, but yeah, I've seen it before. I've seen it before. I read the article. It's out there somewhere. Yeah. What else would they eat? Fat bones. Yeah, fat bones. Grind it up and eat it, and you'll be cured. There's a pretty cool Smithsonian article called The Gruesome History of Eating Corpses of Medicine. If this kind of thing rings your bell, if you just got to know more. Yeah. You got anything else? You're ready for a nap? Yeah. This one? Yeah. If you want to know more about bizarre stuff, type the word bizarre in the search bar@housetopworks.com, and it will bring up this and who knows what else. Yeah, we got a lot of bizarre things in there. Yeah. And both of us just said bizarre. So now it's magic. Listener mail time. Hey, before I read listener mail, I want to ask a favor. Songs for Kids is a great foundation run out of here in Atlanta. What they do is they put musicians in children's hospitals and camps for kids with special needs and basically play music for them. That's awesome. It's that simple. And it's really neat. And you can start a fundraising page through your band. Right. So I thought, let me try and raise $2,000. Whoa. That's lofty goal. I thought it was pretty small. Oh, yeah, that's what it is. So my old man band, El Cheapo, we started a page, and you can donate as little as $10, and that would really mean a lot to me and those kids. So just go to songsforkidsfoundation. Orglchapoel. C-H-E-A-P. That's the band. Do you have a song in particular you want to play? No. You'll play any of the 500 songs? I'll play? Any of them? That's a great attitude. Yeah. Just go to songsforkidsfoundation. Orglchapo. Like I said, donate $10 or more if you want and help El Cheapo reach their goal of $2,000. And I really appreciate it, folks. Nice. All right, so listen or mail, I'm going to call this the or the Greetings from Manhattan guy who just finished catching up on a few weeks of podcast, I was excited to hear you mention the pronunciation of the in the folklore episode. I studied vocal music throughout my youth and in college, and one of the more important rules for my teachers that stuck out with me was about the word d. Word and word combinations can sound surprisingly different when they're sung versus spoken, so there are a bunch of interesting tricks used to counteract this. Dip thongs are used to emphasize two adjacent vowels, so a listener can hear both while glottal stops. Create a discrete stop between words so they sound distinct rather than like a big old mess of sounds with the word. The trick is to slightly adjust how it's pronounced. D should be used when it proceeds at word beginning with a consonant. Sorry. And the should be used when it precedes. A vowel may sound silly in bourgeois, but there is a reason for this. Like Josh Guest, a phrase like the apple sounds normal when it's spoken, but when you're singing and your words are strung together, it starts to sound a lot more like the apple. Makes sense, which is weird and a made up word. But switch to the apple and suddenly you've got yourself two fine words that sound recognizable even when sung. Next time you're listening to any vocal music, keep an ear out for this. I bet you'll start to notice this use everywhere. Big shout out to my former vocal teacher. So you would say the alfart. That's right. Not Valfart. So she thanks her for making her such a nut about pronunciation. And that is from Nicole. Thanks a lot, Nicole. Very nice. We appreciate that. More knowledge. We just keep packing it in. If you want to impart some more knowledge, if you want to inject it like some sort of urine therapy into our vein or botulism in our face, yeah, you can tweet to us via SYSK podcast. You can join us on Facebook. Comstuffysheanow. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast@housetofworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web stuffyshow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetofworks.com." | ||
3780fcfa-3bcb-4aa0-86f3-aecc00e7d7bb | Selects: How Ayahuasca Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/selects-how-ayahuasca-works | One day in the Amazon Basin, a shaman put together a plant containing DMT with a vine that allows the body to absorb DMT. The combination, a foul-tasting, wildly hallucinogenic brew called ayahuasca, has changed cultures throughout the Americas. Learn all about it in this classic episode.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | One day in the Amazon Basin, a shaman put together a plant containing DMT with a vine that allows the body to absorb DMT. The combination, a foul-tasting, wildly hallucinogenic brew called ayahuasca, has changed cultures throughout the Americas. Learn all about it in this classic episode.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. | Sat, 09 Jul 2022 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2022, tm_mon=7, tm_mday=9, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=190, tm_isdst=0) | 43611373 | audio/mpeg | "Hello, folks. It's Chuck here. It's Saturday, and that means it's time for a Saturday select episode curated this week by MOA. This one goes all the way back to December 11, 2018, and it's about Ayahuasca. We love doing our episodes on various weird drugs, and this is no exception. So check out how Ayahuasca works right now. Welcome to stuff you should know a production of. iHeartRadio Hola. And welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's charles W, Chuck Bryan. There's Jerry over there. And this is stuff you should know. The poor Attempts at Spanish edition. And yet another drug cast covering all the drugs, everybody, one by one. And this one is ayahuasca we'll have to do one just specifically on DMT sometime, too. All right. Because DMT is the base of iowaska. But it's different. I mean, there's other stuff going on with Iowaqa that DMT doesn't have them. Spoiler alert. DMT is its own thing, for sure, from what I can tell. Yeah. Okay, so it's a greed, then. Chuck? Yes. But you just ruined this whole episode. Oh, sorry. Well, let's go back to the beginning, then. Yeah. Ayahuasca, it has a bunch of different names, and this is something I didn't know because I'm a dummy. I didn't know anything about Ayahuasca except to use it as jokes. It's been sort of a running punchline. Like, you have to forgive me, I'm on ayahuasca that kind of thing. I got you. But I thought that was the name of a plant, and it was one plant called Ayahuasca. Right. Sort of like what's the other plant? Corn. No, the one that the doors took. Me. Yeah. Mescaline. Yeah. But that's not the plant. What's? The plant is mescaline. The plant, too. No. What? Peyote. Peyote. That's right. But that's the mescaline buttons on a peyote plant. Right. Which we haven't covered yet. We should do one on a peyote. Bam. Another drug test coming at you. But Ayahuasca is not the name of a plant. No, it is actually a concoction made from a couple of different plants. Yeah. Originally it was just one plant actually known as the vine of Death. Yeah. Are we going to pronounce these? Let's see what we can do. Okay. You did the time wasting. Throat clear. I know that move. It's stalling. So if you go and drink Ayahuasca today, you're probably getting one that's a combination of a plant called psychotria veritas I think I got that. And a vine known as Banisteriopsis. Copy. C-A-A-P-I So psychotria veritas and Baronesman. There are a lot of letters in that one. Yeah. But it's pronounced like it looks yeah. Banisteriopsis. You got it. All right. Copy. Right. And that one, the second one, the copy is the vine. Correct. That's the OG aioasca ingredient. Right. The vine of Death. And this is I guess we haven't even really said we've danced around it. It is a drug concoction that they have been taking since who knows when, but since before Europeans arrived in the New World a long, long time in South America. Yeah. And specifically, they think it may have originated among the Napa Runa tribe in Ecuador. Right. But it's spread throughout the Amazon basin. And today, if you are a well to do tech worker who makes your way down to South America, you're probably going to go to Peru to check out your Ayahuasca trip. Yeah. This became a thing weirdly in Silicon Valley. If you are a young, rich entrepreneur in Silicon Valley that has a couple of hit apps on your hand, it became a thing to throw on your hoodie and travel to South America to take part in an Ayahuasca ceremony. And I'm not sure. I guess I know what happens is one dude does that and then says, bro, you got to do this. Right. A late night conversation at Burning Man opens the flood. Absolutely. That's how it went down. And then before you know it, it's a thing. Right. You know, there's some kids in Silicon Valley being like, wait a minute, wait a minute. Are they making fun of us right now? Yeah. And then they feel that hood that they've never even put over their head, itching their neck, and they're like, stupid stereotypes being true. Oh, man. At any rate, ayahuasca yes. So it did start out as a traditional thing, but there's, like, the whole popularity that grew among Westerners traveling down to South America for whatever reason, I'm sure for Vision Quests, for Fun, a drug they hadn't tried yet. Who cares? There's a lot of reasons that people travel down to South America to partake in this. Certainly most of them. Not nefarious or dumb, probably a lot of the reasons were great, but the influx of Westerners and Western money has radically altered Ayahuasca and the ceremonies and rights and the people who perform Iowa's ceremonies just over the last ten or so years. Dramatically. Yeah. One might even say that the Western white man has ruined the whole thing. I think it's been commercialized, but that they are still very much the original or the real deal is protected in many ways by the people who are like, yeah, you guys go drink it over there. We've got our thing going on over here. And in fact, there are at least two churches in the United States that practice ayahuasca diets that are real deal religions as far as the Supreme Court is concerned, that clearly show that there is real legit Ayahuasca ceremonies being practiced throughout the world. I think both of them are from Brazil. Yeah. In 2006, the Supreme Court said that the Unaio de Vegetal UDV was a legit religion. They are, in fact, from Brazil, christian spiritualist, about 17,000 adherents all over the world. And the literal translation of that religion is the union of the plants. Right. So it's like a plant religion, and Ayahuasca is at the center of this. Yeah. The other one is Christian Syncretism, which is like Santo Dime. Yeah, that one is like they incorporate not just indigenous Brazilian and South American beliefs, but also some African indigenous beliefs or folk beliefs as well. It's a whole very big inclusive pantheon that is centered around visions from iowaska, like Iowa's Sacrament. It's pretty interesting. Yeah. Both protected in the United States by law now that this is part of this plant concoction as part of their religion, they cannot be arrested for doing this because the legalities of it is technically illegal. It's a little gray whether or not the actual plant is illegal. Is that right? Yeah. Supposedly the plants themselves are not illegal. It's the combination or the brew made from them that's illegal. Got you. That's what I saw. I don't know that that's necessarily true. And I would guess if the plants are still legal now, they won't be in two to three years. Right. Why make it legal? Why let it be legal? Yeah. Something people get enjoyment for that comes from the Earth. What's? Outlawed. Yeah. I don't know if enjoyment is quite the right word, though, from the way that The Grabster puts it, that an ayahuasca trip is not necessarily fun. It's a harrowing psychological, spiritual journey that you're undertaking. All right, let's take a break. Okay. All right, so you're getting excited over there, and we'll talk a little bit more about DMT and kind of what's going on in your body physiologically right after this. All right. So DMT, which you mentioned at the onset, the one part of this concoction, the Pveridus, contains DMT. You're going to pronounce that? Oh, yes. It's Dimethyltryptamine. Oh, look at you. It just rolls off the tongue now, doesn't it? So this is something not exclusive to P. Varideus. It's found in a bunch of psychedelic substances. And this is something that can cause hallucinations, perhaps changes in your perception, your state of consciousness, your sense of self, which we'll really get into because it has a lot to do with the Iowa's journey. Right. However, if you just eat the DMT, it's not going to have this kind of effect on you because there's an enzyme called monoamine oxidase, and that's going to break it down in your digestive system before it gets absorbed. So you have to combine it with this copy vine, which prevents the uptake of it. Yeah. The copy vine has an alkaloid called a harmola. Alkaloid and Harmlines are psychotropic and of themselves, which is why the copy vine alone used to just be Ayahuasca. But the fact that it prevents the monoamine oxidase to break down the DMT, it allows your body to absorb it, and all of a sudden you're tripping balls. Although I hear it's not all of a sudden. I think it takes a good 30 minutes to come on, and then it takes like a supplementary boost an hour or so later to really bring on the kind of transcendent experience that people are looking for when they take Ayahuasca. Yeah, for sure. So you've got the DMT being absorbed. That's the one two punch. Right. You've got the DMT itself, and then you've got the plant that allows the DMT to be absorbed. And when you put those two things together, the P vitus and the B copy, that's the Ayahuasca that you read about in Vice. That's what they're talking about. Yes. And this is administered by a shaman, someone who ideally, as a shaman, that knows what they're doing. And sometimes there are other plants that are brewed in there as well, but not always. And sometimes it's brewed separately and then combined later. Sometimes it all depends on which shaman you go to, of what the ritual is like. Sometimes you're included as part of it. Sometimes it's like a thick liquid tea. Sometimes it's a paste. It's been described, no matter what it is, it seems like around the horn, everybody says it tastes awful, so awful that you can very easily throw up, which is something that's pretty common with an Ayahuasca experience. I didn't get that from the taste, though. I got that was like once it's in your body, it makes you nauseous and you throw up. Right. But this tastes so bad, I'm going to puke it up. No, because then it wouldn't be in your body long enough to be absorbed. Right? Yeah. But I think the taste and the memory of the taste combined with the nausea is enough to throw up. But whether you do throw up or not, it's not necessarily like 100% you're going to throw up. One of the points of an Ayahuasca ceremony is to throw up. You're meant to throw up, and you will actually be forced into this either. If you don't do it from the Ayahuasca, you may also be given something like tobacco juice, like a water with tobacco that's soaked in it for a while, and you'll be told to drink that so that you will throw up. Because this idea of purging, whether it's throwing up or diarrhea, is a very frequent side effect of Iowa. Very frequent. You are meant to be purging your body, and it's meant to be this kind of symbolic, spiritual purge of your ego, of all the nastiness, of all the horribleness that's a part of you, you're getting it out as part of the trip. As the trip sets in, yes. And the taste has been described. The New York Times has said it's like a muddy herbal taste. Someone from Voxcom took it. A guy named Sean Illing. He described it as a cup of motor oil diluted with a splash of water. Right. So I read it's almost as gross as a neck ofer I don't think I've ever had a necklace of her. Good on you. Have you? No. What am I, crazy? What are they? Nicko wafers. They're like old timey. Kind of like chalky candy that comes in a roll. You seen them, probably. You've seen them in my old timey candy days. Exactly. I'm sure I did. Yeah. All right, I guess we should talk a little bit about, like you said, it's origins in the Napa River basin by this Runa tribe, like you said, and it's called the vine of Death or the Mother vine, this copy. And they think that early on they may have just taken this copy by itself. Right, right. Because without the brew, it's got the harm and is in it that's not only an MAOI, but also has its own kind of psychoactive stuff going on. So that was the original Ayahuasca. Yeah. And we have written accounts from the 17 hundreds when Jesuits would go to the Amazon to try and Christianized folks and trip balls. Yes. Because I'm sure the entry was like, Whoa. And that's it. Did you hear about the guy that was just killed? The missionary? Yes. On Sentinel Island. Yeah, it's like something from a movie. He went at first and a child shot an arrow through a Bible that he was holding. Apparently. I hadn't heard about that. Yeah, because he went back a few times and was, like, journaling about it and said he basically held up his Bible. It's like something from a movie and an arrow was shot through it. I'm like, Dude, if that is not like, if you believe in God, that's a sign from God. Well, you remember turn around the man in the whole episode, we talked about them. Yeah. They were the ones that everyone knew. You just don't go anywhere near them. And some fishermen had been killed, like, years, few years back. And this guy, I guess, had tried he decided he was going to be the one. Yes. I don't actually know enough about the story, but he clearly was trying to gain access to them. Yeah, he was trying to spread the word of Jesus and paid, like, you're not supposed it's illegal, I think, to even trespass there, but he paid people sort of under the table to take him there, and they did so, and those people were arrested. And his family is saying, you need to let these people go, because he really wanted to do this. I see. It's very interesting. Yeah, it is crazy. But that sounds like something you would make up from a movie, like shooting an arrow through the Bible that you're holding up. So we got a little sidetracked. But we were talking about the Jesuits, like, having this on record in the 1700s when they went and they were like, hey, there's something going on here. That's very interesting. Yeah. And even William S. Burrows wrote the Yahoo letters in 1963, and it was about his experience with the Iowa vine. And apparently the practitioners at the time knew well into the 20th century that you could combine it with the p vitus and have a completely different experience. But that wasn't necessarily the point. That was like an optional ceremony you could perform. But the most widespread and traditional ceremony was just the vine of Death. Right? Yeah. And then at some point somebody started putting them together and worried about this god out. And the mid 2000s is when it just ayahuasca kind of hit the public consciousness in the west. Yeah. I mean in the sixties, of course, in certain subcultures in America they knew about it because of Williamsboroughs and people seeking out things like peyote and all kinds of psychedelic experiences. But it definitely was not sort of in the mainstream until not too long ago. And even still, I think even at the time it was strictly the Harm lines and just the vine that was being used, the copy vine. Somebody started putting it together frequently with the veritas plant and that's when it became hugely popular. Yeah, so popular now that there is ayahuasca tourism big time like going on in South America and said the central part is Peruse Arumbamba Valley. If you are going down for an Iowa caucus experience, like a spiritual quest is the reason you're going down there. I don't fault you for that at all. Sure. But you have to understand, you have to do your research. You can't just show up in South America and be like, all right, somebody give me some Ayahuasca. Because there are a lot of inscrupulous and nefarious outfits that have come up to take advantage explicitly of that kind of Western tourists, the ill informed Western tourist who is going to have a horrible, terrible trip and not going to get the spiritual experience you're looking for. So you have to do your research because there are some legitimate Ayahuasca outfits in South America, but they're not going to take you if you just show up down there and you're going to end up in a bad situation. Yeah, for sure. So taking part in one of these ceremonies, let's say you do find like a legit shaman who's willing to take your American dollars or whatever, however you're paying your gold ingots and trinkets. It still is sort of funny. It all goes back to Burrows with the set and setting thing, which is what he famously preached about any psychedelic experience, is to really put a lot of thought into the set and the setting where you're going to do this so it goes well for you. So as this concoction is being brewed, like I said before, sometimes you're taking part in this and helping to mash it up and brew the tea. But what they're really trying to do is the whole ceremony isn't just like for show. It's all part of the thing to get you settled in and focused on kind of the right things going in. Like what do you want to accomplish here? What do you want to find out about yourself what questions do you have about yourself and really get into that frame of mind as they hand you your puke bucket? Although I would recommend bringing your own. Oh, yeah, I hadn't thought about that. I would not want a reused peak bucket. Good Lord. I hadn't even considered that. That would be by OB for me. Yeah, I can just totally see how, as a Westerner, you would just be like, come on, we don't need the ceremony still. Give me the good stuff. Right. But like you said, that's the point is to ease you into it, to get your mind and body prepared for this enormous trip you're about to go on. Because if you just get dropped right in the middle of it without any kind of preparation or without any kind of assistance, you're going to lose your marbles pretty well. Yeah. So that is a big part of going on an iowaska journey, is having somebody who is competent, trained and empathetic and willing to stay there with you, to prepare you to stay with you, to keep an eye on you. You need to be monitored. You can't be up and just running off into the jungle by yourself because terrible things are going to happen to you in that situation and then to help you afterward as well. And from some of the preliminary research that's starting to come in, if you undertake an ayahuasca journey, I guess, is the best word I can come up with. Under the right setting, under the right guidance, with the right support, both pre during and after, it can have profound effects on your spirituality and your sense of connectedness to the universe. It can also possibly help you with diagnosed mental illness as well. Yeah, we'll get to the mental illness part at the end, but just your standard sort of truth seeker, let's say. Okay. It's very much tied into ideal conditions in the with the LSD well beyond. But the LSD experience and that there was a lot of talk in the 60s about the ego. And every hip musician in the United States talked about stripping away the ego. From Brian Wilson to the Mamas and the Papas to Neil Young is stripping away that ego of yourself. Basically. Which means kind of getting outside yourself to the point where you're not looking at the world around you and how it affects you. But there is no you. It's a loss of self such that's so profound that you can only see the world and people around you as they exist in reality. It's a pretty sort of deep, tricky thing to try and describe in words on a podcast. But I think that's sort of the general thing is washing that ego down to where it's not around anymore and you get, like a true sense of the world around you. Right. Maybe for the first time. Yeah. The ego in and of itself isn't a bad thing. Like they think that it developed among animals. That's your sense of self awareness. That's the thing that leads you to want to preserve your own life, to get away from danger, to realize that you can die because there is a you right. It's a very basic thing. The problem is in humans, as we've evolved, our ego has also evolved and it can get to a point where it's unhealthy, it's kind of toxic, it can help you develop bad relationships. People don't want to be around you. It can also affect your self esteem. If your ego is underdeveloped, there's a lot of problems that can go wrong with the ego. And so a lot of people who prescribe psychedelics to deal with that kind of thing say psychedelics strip away the ego. And now that we've gotten to the point where we are advanced enough as a civilization that we can give people acid and put them in an MRI machine, the one machine, and watch what happens, we've shown that, yes. It seems like the areas that are responsible for generating the ego, they get kind of turned off while you're under the influence of psychedelics and it allows you to connect, to see outside of yourself, to see that you are connected with all of this other stuff. So this whole ego depletion or ego stripping is a major component of not just ayahuasca, but all psychedelics. But it's a big reason why people undertake ayahuasca journeys. Again, I love it every time you say that. But get this, there was something I hadn't realized before Chuck. From those MRI studies, they found that there's something called the default mode network, which is the thing that keeps your body humming and keeps you it's the part of your brain that's going well, you're not thinking right. And they found that when the default mode network is suppressed and your frontal cortex is activated, that's when it seems that your ego is at the least it's when your ego is turned off and you're free to connect with the universe or whatever. Right? Yeah. Well that default mode network is a very primitive part of our brain. It's a very primitive system of our brain and it kind of suggests in a way that the loss of ego is something that we may eventually evolve to. Oh wow, isn't that cool? Yeah. Because if your frontal cortex is what's being activated and your default mode network is inactivated, that's like your ancient brain and your evolved brain, one's activated and one's suppressed and your ego is gone. That sounds to me like, well yeah, if we keep evolving a frontal cortex, I wonder if we'll lose our ego at some point or at least it will be radically altered. Interesting. I thought so too. Yeah. So what can happen? Like any sort of psychedelic trip, it's going to be completely singular to the person that's doing it. There is no across the board sort of sweeping statements you can make. But you strip away that ego. And anything can happen from feeling connected to the more connected to the universe or the earth or the tree you're leaning against. Or maybe the father that passed away when you were a child that you didn't have a relationship with or the loved one that you currently have a toxic relationship with. You can feel sort of not imaginary, but it is in your mind, but a bond and that they're not, like, right there in front of you, just new understandings of relationships that may be complicated or toxic in your life. Right, exactly. Like you're seeing them in a different way because of that ego loss. Yeah, I think that's fascinating. And like you said, it's symbolic death of the ego, which is why that vomiting is important in theory, I guess. You're vomiting up that ego and then it's go time. Apparently, you can hallucinate your death. And like you said before, it's not often looked at as like, hey, man, this is going to be a great time. But at the same time, I think it's also typically not looked at as like some horror show that you're about to undergo, although it can be. But it's just a profound emotional and psychological experience. Right, exactly. I've never done it either. This is from researching it. Right, exactly. Which is like, we've never been to the sun either, but we talked about that. Yeah, that went great, actually, now that you mention it. Should have used a different example. Let's take another break, and then we'll talk about what you kind of teased earlier with Iwaska and how it could be used to treat addiction or PTSD or other mental illnesses right after this. Okay, Chuck. So we're back, and we're talking about using iowaska as a tool, like taking that experience of being outside of yourself and connected to the rest of the universe, of reevaluating your life in a lot of ways to cure mental illness. And one of the things that it's been, I guess some studies have actually shown, like, no, this actually works, is to treat addiction, whether it's cigarettes or booze or drugs or whatever. You can undergo an Iowa's ceremony. People have and have come out on the other side like, I'm good, I don't need that. Cigarettes or booze or drugs or whatever. Yeah. And one of the suggestions for what's going on with this that I saw is that you are actually healing the psychic damage that's causing you to self medicate in the first place. Right. Something probably from your past. And then without that need to self medicate, you don't have necessarily the desire to drink or smoke cigarettes or whatever that you used to, which is a different model of addiction that's kind of starting to gain a little bit of traction, but is also very controversial because it makes it sound like addiction is a choice. You're self medicating, you're choosing to do all those drugs and throw your life away because of some psychic trauma. But there does seem to be a camp in medicine that is saying, like, this actually might have legs. It kind of makes a lot of sense. And from what I can tell, those Ayahuasca studies kind of are a check mark in that Views favor. Yeah. And I think that can work in conjunction with the other piece, which is removing that ego, even if it's for, whatever, how many hours that you're undergoing this trip could just simply disrupt that. You often hear about addiction being, like, this sort of cycle, like a cyclical thing. And even just disrupting that cyclical path or that circular path can be enough to sort of get you on the off ramp from using yeah. Get you on the off ramp. Yeah, on the off ramp. Yes. That's what you said, right? Yeah. And then eventually off that off ramp onto a nice chill side street. Yeah. Maybe a nice drive into the country, passed a few cows and then sleep. Yeah. I had a therapist one time that talked about getting off of the highway. It was a metaphor that actually worked for me, but, like, choosing to get off the highway when certain things were happening. And sometimes something that simple just kind of clicks in, like, oh, if I notice something's going on, I'm speeding down the highway toward the Badness, I can just get on that exit ramp. And now I'm in my neighborhood. Now I'm hanging out with cows in a nice bucolic pasture. PTSD is another specifically, I think a lot of times with military PTSD, they've been using psychedelics more and more in Iowa Ka is no stranger to this treatment, and while it is not a magic pill, they are doing some studies on this. And it seems like with all these, it's tough to get funding for these kinds of studies sometimes. But it does seem like it's gaining more ground in the medical community to try out these kind of experiments. Well, they're trying to get some of these studies underway in the United States, but because Iowaqa is considered a schedule one drug, which is the worst, most nefarious drugs of all, they can't I don't think there's been a single study in the US. But fortunately, they can just go down to South America and do the best they can with some of the Iowa Ka centers that are down there. Again, there are some legitimate Ayahuasca centers that take Western tourists for auaska journeys, and some groups are going down there to partner with those centers to study people. Some of the people they're trying to study are PTSD patients, and they think that if Ayahuasca is helping people with PTSD, which it seems to be, it's basically negative exposure therapy, where you're dredging up all of those worst memories that are causing your PTSD, which is bringing them to the surface and allowing. Your awareness to kind of shine a light on them and say, okay, I'm going to recategorize these now, and they're not being categorized as bad and frightening as they were before. It's not as dramatic as they were originally categorized. Yeah. And specifically in this study that you're thinking about or talking about as combat veterans suffering from PTSD, and it's the Temple of the Way of Light, and the Amazon has partnered with a group in Spain and the UK, the International Center for Ethnobotanical Research and Service in Spain, and then the Beckley Foundation in the UK. And they're treating close to 600 combat veterans a year. And it says it's the largest psychedelic study ever undertaken. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's really interesting. Yes. I know that they're using MDMA to treat PTSD as well, and then I can't remember the name of that one treatment. But remember, you like, follow a pen with your eyes while you're going over your worst memory and it recategorizes the memories as less scary. I don't remember that one. Yes, I can't remember what we talked about it in, but that apparently works really well, too, without the vomiting. Right. That's a big part of it, though, my friend. Just bring your own bucket. Problems with Ayahuasca, it is not generally toxic, and you would have to take so much ayahuasca sort of like when we were talking about marijuana. Is there even a lethal dose? Can you even say that? Because the lethal dose, apparently, for Iowa ka, is 20 times what you would normally take in a typical ceremony, as the Grabster put it. Or he might have been quoting someone. But could anyone even choke this much of that down? Right. Probably not. Is that even possible? But there have been some deaths that have been related to iowaska, and when you dig a little deeper, you find, like, oh, it wasn't actually the iowaska directly that caused this, but these people would not have died had they not been in South America on the Iowa Cave journey. Right, yeah. Is there a way to say it? There's this one guy who died in, I believe, 2014. He was an American. Oh, he's British. I'm sorry. And his name was Henry Miller, and he died on the way to the hospital because he had gone kind of nonresponsive. And the Iowa Squareo's, Iowa? Yeah, I said it. They took him to the hospital, had him on a motorcycle. He fell off the motorcycle and died of a head injury on the way to the hospital. So it wasn't the Iowaaska that killed him, but he wouldn't have been on the motorcycle in the first place had he not been on this ayahuasca trip. So the shorthand and the headlines is a man dies from ayahuasca yeah. There have been some other cases where people would be having a bad trip and maybe attack someone else, and that would lead to, like, violence or death or just this year. In 2018 in Peru, an 81 year old shaman woman was shot and killed. And then a Canadian man was murdered for revenge for that killing. But supposedly this had nothing to do with being under the influence, but it was some sort of dispute that happened during this whole conflict. Yes. The woman was named Olivia Arvalo, and she was the spiritual mother of Peru second largest indigenous tribe, the shape of Coneivo. And this Canadian guy named Sebastian Woodruff shot and killed her, allegedly because her son owed him money. He was there to learn to Ayahuasca, and he didn't feel like he got his money's worth, so he killed her. He killed this woman, the shaman, the spiritual leader of the second largest tribe in Peru, and he was Canadian. Yeah, I know. It's surprising. Not a very Canadian thing to do. No, it really wasn't. But the whole thing really revealed the problems that have been developing from this Ayahuasca tourism. First, this guy was down there and wanted to learn about Ayahuasca so he could take it back to Canada and appropriate this culture, no problem. One, two, he didn't get his money's worth, so he shot and killed the woman who was supposed to be teaching him. It's a big problem as well. But then also between the Iowa squares and the practitioners who are hosting these tourists and then the governments of the countries that they're hosting them in, there's tensions there as well, because this village said there's police everywhere, the police never come here. But then a Canadian man goes missing, and now our village is overrun with police. Like, what's going on here? So there's a lot of tension that's being a lot of simmering tension that's being heated by this Western. Ayahuasca tourism. And it's kind of largely in part because it's unregulated, but also because a lot of people going down there don't have respect for what they're doing. And then also a lot of the people who are popping up as Iowa squares don't have any respect for what they're doing either. So the respect that's been given to this tradition for so many hundreds or thousands of years is being lost. And then on top of that, the bioasca that they're drinking is so wildly more potent than what it traditionally was all those hundreds of thousands of years. The Jesuit version of Ayahuasca, that's really kind of, I think, fueling this kind of recklessness that's becoming part and parcel with ayahuasca use down in South America. Yeah, because some of these areas are poor. And so all of a sudden, it becomes a hip thing for Westerners with money to come down there with cold, hard cash. And then, like you said, they're appropriating their culture. So that's one strike. But then to appeal to these people, all of a sudden they're not as like, we don't want to freak people out, maybe by being too traditional. So we're going to Westernize our own methods a bit. Unless, hey, let's get a website going, and then we'll be the go to for when they come down here. So then they're undermining their own culture, and it's just sort of becoming a big mess, it sounds like. Yeah. And again, I think if you're going down there, like, whether you're Western or Asian or whoever you are, if you're going down for a vision quest, that's not what's being brought out as the fault. The fault is if you're going down there because it's hip or because you just want to party or because a friend did it and you're not being respectful of it, then that's where the issue seems you're rising from. Yeah. Ayahuasca, you got anything else? Oh, yeah. There is one thing that we didn't cover that can happen. Because the copy vine is a Mao inhibitor. There's a lot of other things that can actually kill you that are pretty normal, like interactions. You can have drug interactions with things as normal as chocolate. Yeah. Because the monoamine oxidase typically breaks these things down, and if it's being inhibited so that the Ayahuasca can work its effects, if you eat chocolate, you're toast. Yes. And one of the other things that it can do is the MAOIs prevent your serotonin from being taken up. And that's how DMT acts on the brain. It goes into where serotonin receptors normally fit and just says, let's party. Right? Yeah. So with all this extra serotonin floating around, if you also happen to be on an SSRI, a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, you've got too much serotonin, you can go into what's called serotonin shock. This is where the diarrhea comes in. That's one of the symptoms of serotonin shock, but that's one of the mild symptoms. You can also have seizures. Your heart can also stop, and you can die from having too much serotonin flooding your brain. So that is a direct way you can die from Ayahuasca, but it's not from the hallucinogen aspect of it. It's from the MAOI. So when they show up from the Silicon Valley and they say they're translating, and they're like, hey, bro, he wants to know if you got anything, if you've had anything in your body. And then you're like, no, just my selection. And wolf down a toblerone on the way over. I'm good, right? Let's do this. Let's skip the ceremony. Just let me drink that stuff. Right? You mash the shaman's face. Out of your way. Get out of here. Just give me that. Now I know why we haven't been selling tickets in Seattle so much. Oh, no. Seattle, we love. That's not Silicon Valley. That's right. I love San Francisco, too. We love all people. We love all of you. Everybody. We love all potential ticket buyers. Our egos are down in the pits. Yes. If you want to know more about ayahuasca man, do some research. There's a lot of it out there, so do it and since I said that, it's time for listing or mail. Yeah. I'm going to call this short and sweet, but we did get an answer to something. Remember in the firetwox episode, you could not remember that game. And we got everything from SIM City to civilization. Yeah. None of them are right. But our friend, our new pal, Mike Mangoba. Mike says this guys have just listened to the firetwox episode and also shout out to two things. All the people who wrote in and spelled it firetrucks. Yeah. And then all the firefighters. We heard from a lot of firefighters, and every single one of them said, yes, it's chilly. Josh did not oversee the chili thing. Yeah. And they're all very nice and said, you guys got most of this right. Anytime if something really specific like that, we're going to get some stuff wrong. But they were like, you guys did a good job. And one of them even had a joke that said, if you're at a party, how do you know if there's a firefighter there? And the answer is, oh, don't worry, they'll tell you that was from a firefighter. So I guess they have a sense of humor about it. Anyway, guys, listen to the firewall episode, and he talked about the old game that burns buildings to the ground if you don't have a fire station. And that game is called Pharaoh. Pharaoh. C-H-A-R-A-O-H. Yes, you're building an Egyptian civilization. And he says it's an expansion game. The expansion game is called Cleopatra, and it was one of my favorite games, which I still play today. Keep up the chatter, Mike mangoba. Thanks a lot, Mike. That's exactly what it was. I never in a million years would have remembered that, but it was indeed Gobes. Oh, is that what we're calling? Yeah. All right. Thanks a lot, Gobs. Well, if you want to be like, Gobs and rescue us by reminding me of something, I can't remember what it was or just correcting my syntax, you can get in touch with us. We're all over social. You can find those links at STUFFYou known.com. And you can just send us an email, wrap it up, stack it on the bottom, and send it off to Stuffpodcastworks.com. Stuffyshot Knows is a production of iheartrad Radio. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows." | |
8a38133e-4a58-11e8-a49f-27580d903fcc | SYSK Selects: How Condoms Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/sysk-selects-how-condoms-work | The earliest depiction of a condom is found in a 15,000-year-old cave painting. Ever since humans realized sex led to children, we've been using condoms to prevent pregnancy. | The earliest depiction of a condom is found in a 15,000-year-old cave painting. Ever since humans realized sex led to children, we've been using condoms to prevent pregnancy. | Sat, 23 Jun 2018 11:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2018, tm_mon=6, tm_mday=23, tm_hour=11, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=5, tm_yday=174, tm_isdst=0) | 58837032 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, everybody, its me, Josh. And for this week's SYSK Select, I've chosen How Condoms Work, which we released back in December of 2012. Thrilled to the number of times we use the word penis and Qurman and titter at the number of innuendos that we unintentionally make and walk right path. It's a good episode all around. I think you'll enjoy it. So here we go. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetofworkscom. Hi and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me, as always, is Charles W. Chuck Bryant. You put us together, rub us in lube, you got yourself stuff You Should Know. You have a lawsuit on your hands from you, right? Yeah. Somebody how are you doing, man? Oh, I got a speeding ticket on the way here. I'm pissed off. Okay, well, everything of the last 15 minutes before we started recording is now explained. No, we talked about regular stuff. That didn't influence my feelings about this. No, but you're still like you had a burn in your bonnet. Well, for that cop, yeah, man, those state patrol, they don't mess around. No, they don't. There's no, like there's no small talk, there's no nothing. It's, give me your license and then here's your ticket. Right. I was like, but that was about it. Anyone who refers to you and what the second person is citizen. They're pretty serious people. Yes. I'm going to go to court, though. Why not? Good for you, man. We don't work. You never know, you might get out of it. Yeah, we'll give it a shot. Yeah. So aside from that, I had my condom on, so I was safe driving. That's good. Yeah. You always wear one, right? 24/7. You can't be too careful. How often do you change? It may. That is so gross. All right, let's talk about measure B. You heard of Measure B? It is a referendum that Los Angeles County floated in this last election that passed 56% of the vote that said, if you're in the porn industry and you're filming, you have to wear a condom. Good. Well, it depends on who you are. If you are a citizen. Yeah. You probably think it's good, especially if you voted in favor of it. Sure. If you're in the porn industry, though, you're like, people don't want to see that. And they're actually talking about moving from Los Angeles, which is a big deal. People don't want to see a condom in their porn movies. I guess. I don't want to see any of that stuff. I don't want to see what's attached to the condom either. Okay, so you wouldn't care? No. Yes. I guess so. I don't want to see any of that. Stuff like that. Apparently there's a long standing thing in the porn industry. It's like you just don't show condoms. It reflects the unnaturalness maybe of what you're seeing. You're like, well, wait a minute, that's probably not the pizza guy after all. You know? Sure. It blows the illusion that's real stuff. Yeah. So they're talking about moving from Los Angeles, which is huge Los Angeles, because apparently in just Los Angeles County, porn is a billion dollar industry. Oh, yeah, dude. In the Valley just in one county. Can you imagine that? So there's a big kerfuffle going on right now over condom usage in the porn industry. Did I ever tell you about the time I scouted the porn stage for a video shoot? No. Did key for Southern. Driver take you there. No, but I was working as a PA and we couldn't afford, like, a real stage, so they sent me out to the Valley of this porn stage to go videotape it and see what it looked like. And it's like a boardroom with a bed in the corner and a candy shop with a bed and a gymnasium locker room with a bed. That was really gross, and I didn't want to touch anything. And as I was leaving, a bunch of big muscle men came in to get their shoot on. Oh, is that right? Yeah. Was it gay porn that afternoon? It was just like, whatever. It's a sound stage. Yeah. I got you. They take all comers. And so these two dudes walked in and I walked out, and I don't think we ended up using the stage. I got you. But it was funny. In the conference room set, there was a framed, like, Olen Mills or a painting of Bert Reynolds and Lonnie Anderson, like, at the end of the conference room. No way. Yes. Swear to God. Wow. That's one thing about porn industry moguls, they seem to always have, like, a great sense of humor. I think this is before Boogie Nights even, cause I didn't make that connection. It was just Burt Reynolds. That was definitely before Boogie Nights. But, I mean, think about Larry Flynt. He has a great sense of humor. He does. Hugh Hefner, maybe. I think the less hardcore you get, the further away from hardcore you get, the less of a sense of humor the publisher has. I bet there's some mathematical formula in there. We'll see it one day. All right, so condoms is what we're talking about? Yeah. We should say if you're young, you might want to ask your parents if you should listen to this. Oh, man, that is a good co a. Like, I think it's up to parents how they educate their children with this stuff. So you have been forewarned. Go put your little player down. Go ask mom and dad. Should I be listening to this? Right. We're going to be very clinical here, but it's about sex and reproduction, so can't be too careful. I wonder how many kids just, like, pull the cheeks over. What do you think? I don't know. Vast majority? Okay, so let's try this again. We're talking condom, and apparently what we think of as condom usage normal, widespread, it's talked about there's billboards, whatever, is actually a fairly recent phenomenon. The billboards and things. Yeah. And just the idea of, like, using condoms, like, that's pretty recent from the eighties. And actually it was HIV that kind of spurred this condom age that we live in now. But there have been, like, another golden age of condoms shortly after the Great War, right? That's right. Venereal diseases were pretty easy to get if you were a sailor on leave in Europe. And so they encouraged troops to use condoms and distributed them in the ranks, among the ranks. And when they came back home, they kept using them. I guess they hit a big boom here in the 19s what, I guess 40s. Yeah. Post war era died down in the 60s. Because the Pill exactly. And then picked back up again in the 80s because of HIV. Yeah. Because we figured out, thanks to clever things like penicillin and all that stuff, that most of the STDs that condoms were preventing at the time, you could just treat with antibiotics. Yeah. So people weren't too concerned with that kind of thing. And then the pill came along and I was like, we have no need for condoms whatsoever. Right. But then AIDS hit that's. Right. And then condom usage started to go through the roof, which is good. Yeah. But apparently condoms are an extremely old idea. At the very least, putting something over your penis, whether for recreational purposes or whatever, is at least 150 years old. Right. Yeah. I think Tracy of Pop stuff wrote this article. We should point out she's responsible for the most comprehensive podcasts we've done. Yeah. I never even think twice when I look it and see her name in the by line, like, oh, well, we should totally do this. She points out that 15,000 years ago, we have found cave paintings that show images of a sheath penis. Yes. So it's unclear whether or not these garments and decorations and sheaths on the penises of Egypt and Greece and India and Japan were for contraception as a barrier method or adornment. I guarantee they weren't. Probably thinking of the woman's comfort. No. Especially at all the Kabuto gata, the Japanese version of the penis sheath or condom was made of horn or tortoise shell. Yeah. They didn't care about the lady's pleasure. That's just mind bogglingly painful sounding. I know. No kidding. So we know people started using condoms as a means to prevent pregnancy by the Roman era, I think. Of course. It's always the Romans. Yeah. Anytime. It's sexy time stuff. They were leading the way. Totally. Yeah. Anybody seeing Caligula can tell you that. But then by the time Shakespeare rolls around, condoms are pretty common. Yeah. If you count wrapping linen around the penis and tying it in a little bow with a ribbon at the bottom. Yeah. That's condom back then. Or stuffing something into the urethra and using a drawstring ribbon to keep it on. That's another way that they did things. I should post photos of your face. Pictures of your face that I'm taking throughout this episode. Yeah. And, well, by the time Shakespeare's age, people are using cannons pretty frequently. One of the things they're using it probably the main thing they're using it for is to prevent syphilis. Because just like in World War Two, sailors to the New World came and contracted this new disease that was found only in North America at the time, I should say the Western Hemisphere. Yes. And they brought it back and they figured out after a little while, like, oh, wait a minute, I think it has to do with sex. So they started using condoms for disease prevention through that. So this is a pretty big point here. Right. Like, by the age of exploration, people understand that you can cover the penis to prevent pregnancy and to prevent disease. Yeah. That's a huge advancement in society, I guess. Oh, totally. They were on it. They still, like, rolled in their own feces and never washed their hands or took a bath. But they knew how to prevent syphilis with a little something in the urethra with a drawstring attached to that's. Right. By the mid 1700s, Tracy points out, they were starting to use condoms made from animal membranes, animal guts, basically, which, if they still have these today, if you use something called cheap skin it is not cheap skin, but it is cheap guts. Intestine lining. Yeah. And you could still buy those. I think they were about, like 1% of the total sales these days. Yeah. And they recommend those only if you are like a monogamous couple that's disease free. And you're just using it to not get pregnant. Right. Because it's very thin, but it's porous, I believe, enough for pathogens to pass through. Yeah. Like you don't want to use that to prevent getting HIV. No, not smart. No. What you want to use is a rubber condom. That's right. Thank you, Charles. Goodyear. Yeah. Who gave us not only rubber condoms, but tires, rubber hoses, rubber belts, pretty much anything that they made of rubber. You can thank Charles Goodyear for it because of his process of vulcanization, which is he added sulfur and lead oxide to rubber from the heavy Brazilian tree. Yeah. Which they had been tapping that tree for a while to get this latex, this liquid rubber. Right. But yeah, vulcanization is where it became a thing that you could produce, and it was safe and it was stronger and more elastic, so less likely to break. But it was also key thicker and rougher. And you had to go to your doctor to be fitted for one of these condoms. The good part is you could wash and reuse it. It was basically like your condom. You probably got your name on it. I imagine if you got fitted, though, in the doctor's office, that would have to be with an erection, right? Yeah. Do you remember the little reflex hammer? I do. What does that have to do with this? That's how they did it. Wow. All right. So I guess back in the day, you would go to your doctor and get an erection, and he would fit you with a condom. Right. Made from vulcanized rubber. Probably a bit of an investment at this time as a man, so I doubt if a lot of people were wearing them still. So, again, imagine this is what I imagine. It basically probably looked a lot like the nipple of a baby bottle. Yeah, sure. I'll bet you there's somebody who collects old time e condom. Some rich dude who has, like, an old timey condom collection. Yeah, of course there's someone who collects everything old. Exactly. Apparently people were using this. This is 1839, when Charles Good, you came with vulcanization. So we're talking, like, the mid to late 19th century. People are using these rubber condoms, reusable rubber condoms, and then everybody patted on the back. A guy named Frederick Killian. Killian's red beer inventor, maybe. No, it's possible. He's more famously known, however, for creating a process of making condoms directly from latex. Right. Which, again, is the SAP of the rubber tree found in Brazil, West Africa, now Southeast Asia now. And he would take these glass molds that were, you could argue, ballok in nature. Kind of has to be. Yeah. And he would dip it directly into latex. I don't think he did it with his hands like that. I'm just like maybe initially he did. So he would dip these molds, or forms right. What they called former. Former. Just into latex. And he would then vulcanized that. And what you had was a thinner stronger, better, I guess, condom. Yeah. Thinner and stronger. Which is like that's what you want out of a condom, because you want to have the sensation intact, but you want to be safe and also had a longer shelf life. And all of a sudden, latex was the way to go. Yeah. Now it's 99% of all condoms worldwide are latex. Yes. And that's a lot of condoms, as we'll see. Yeah. We have some numbers. Yeah. Should we talk about nicknames or not? This seems a little silly to me. I thought it was silly, too. Well, let's skip it then. Okay. Maybe we should just drop them in occasionally. Okay. So people know because it's in here, so it's legit. Right. Instead of condoms, we'll say Jimmy Hat. Yeah. Okay. Frederick KellyAn in 1919 came up with the latex Jimmy Hat. That's right. I guess if you don't know what a condiment is at all, we should go ahead and say it is a tube. It's a bag like tube that the male penis fits in. It's open on one end, obviously. Right. And closed on the other. There's a little reservoir tip to collect the semen, supposedly, and it's got a little ring around the open end, a thin rim that you roll down upon the penis. Right. And that is a condom. And it basically blocks fluids from touching each other, which is how you get pregnant and how you get disease. Keeps all those fluids separate. Right. The form of this, the basic concept of the economy, hasn't changed much over the eons, but just these little advances in technology, like making them latex. Latex is not porous. Yes. The only way something is going to get through is if there's some sort of damage to it or something like that. The condoms the same. What you just described has generally been in use for hundreds or thousands of years. Right. Yeah. It's a barrier method these days. There are I don't think we should talk about all those standards, because my eyes started to water a little bit when I was reading all those with the length of the width and the thickness. No, we should talk about that, but later on, all those standards, when it was just like really? Yeah. International codes. There are international codes governing how cars are made. Well, which is good. I'm not knocking that. Sure. It's just not exciting. So, yeah, these days, the length, they are at least 6.3 inches. 160. Nice. Well, you did the conversion. Well, I think you kind of have to say it in interest, don't you? But have you noticed that how stuff works. Articles have gone metric. Yeah. Now it's metric. First the meat one, the lab grown meat one, both in metric. All right, well, I don't know what to say about that. What about the width? What is the width of a condom when laid flat? 52 mm, which I did not convert to inches. The thickness is zero 7 mm. That's thin. That's very thin. Which, like we said, that's what you want out of a condom. You want something strong, but you don't want to ruin the sexual experience by wearing a rubber glove, you know what I'm saying? Or wear a rubber glove, too. Just rub them as well and keep the rubber gloves on your hands. That's right. They powder these things with things like silica and corn starch and magnesium carbonate to keep the latex from sticking to itself and packaging. Or they can come lubed up with either regular lube or made from silicone or spermicidal lube, which this is good to know now that I'm married, but I was showing on this back then, apparently, the spermicidal lubricants can make things worse, specifically nanoxinol nine. Yeah. It says that they found that when used with a condom, it doesn't really do much to kill sperm, and even worse, it can cause vaginal irritation, which can lead to easier disease transmission. Yeah. So that's apparently not a good thing to use. Nanoxin all nine on your condoms. Very good to know. And that's not knocking in nine, because I think that's what's also, you use outside of a condom, right. As spermicidal. Right. So it's more effective there, I guess. How about manufacturing a condom, Chuck? How about it all starts let's go do it. It all starts either in the forests of Brazil, Southeast Asia or West Africa, which is where you'll find the rubber tree, which is still to the state where latex comes from. Unless it's synthetic latex, of course. Sure. But let's say you're going the natural route, and you go to Brazil and get you some SAP, which, again, SAP from rubber tree is latex. Okay. So you get that, you take it back to your factory, right? That's right. Maybe in Brazil, maybe in Thailand. Who knows? Is that what they make these? Sure. Okay. I think they make them pretty close to the rubber plantations. All the pictures in this article are in Thailand or Brazil or whatever, and that's where you're going to find rubber trees. Okay. Well, it doesn't only contain latex. You're going to probably have some other ingredients in your bucket there of SAP. Well, you added along the way yeah. Antifungal and antibacterial compounds. You want to keep the things clean. zincoxide, which accelerates the vulcanization process, stabilizers like potassium laureate sulfur, maybe, which is another vulcanizing agent. Ammonia, anti coagulant. I didn't know that. Yeah, it keeps things from coagulating. Really? Yeah, and other pigments and preservatives, because you want it to have that lovely fleshy look. Right. And strawberry flavoring. Well, we'll get to that, too. So these add to the shelf life. They make it harder to break down because rubber is biodegradable naturally. Right. And you don't want it to break down. That's what happened in the old days when they these use lubes. The natural rubber would just break down. Your condom wasn't worth much for long. Right. And Tracy points out this is a good reason why you'd never want to throw a condom, used or otherwise, in a toilet. It's not going to throw a condom away because it doesn't break down. It's just going to gum things up. It's going to catch all the hair and toilet paper and all that stuff and grow bigger and bigger and just basically become this big, giant condom dam in your sewer pipe. That's right. So what do you do? You wrap it in tissue paper. She suggests wrap the tissue paper in foil, put the foil in a five millimeter thick black garbage bag and bury it in your yard. No. That's how you properly dispose of a used condom. That's not true. But she does recommend the tissue and the waste basket. Yeah, just on the toilet now. Or if you're in New York City, just on the street or sideways. We'll do just fine in the back of your cab. Have you ever noticed all the condoms on the yes, there's a lot of them out there. It's a thing. It's definitely a thing. If you live in New York, you know about it. Pointy tiles or something. I just don't get it. Like, are these people having sex in the street? Are they throwing them out of the apartment? Maybe that's what they're doing. That's gross. I know. Can you imagine walking down the sidewalk after a nice dinner? I don't yeah. All right, so you've got the liquid latex goes in the vats, and then you've got the formers, which have been around for a while, and they are glass or ceramic molds of a penis, and they're on a conveyor belt. Dip it into the battery in circle to get a nice even coating and dry it out. And then maybe a second or third dip to make sure it's thick enough. Right. And then it's into the tunnel oven for vulcanization. Yeah, because, remember, love, it has all of those zinc oxide and the sulfur in it to help it vulcanize. So when it's exposed to heat, it becomes stronger. That's right. And then after that, I found this a little unsettling because I just always thought of condoms as, like, untouched. It's like a brand new newspaper. Like you could deliver a baby with it. But apparently after vulcanizing, the condoms are taken off of the farmers. Right. And they are washed. So the condom you're using has been washed before this. Find it odd, I guess. Probably mechanically washed. Right? Yeah. It says a washing machine. And that's to remove odor pathogens and allergens. So it's good that they're doing this, but I agree with you. I kind of thought it was just like it was made and packaged immediately and then it goes on your body. Right? Exactly. Not quite. So you wash it, and then there's quality testing, which is a lot of pretty cool stuff. There's some cool quality tests, if you ask me. Well, let's get into it then. Well, there's a standard called zipping popping, rolling, and other condom testing. Yeah. What you're testing for is you want to prevent three things that make a condom ineffective. Breaking a condom, not good. No. Slipping off, definitely not good. And leaking. None of these are good because they're not preventing the one thing or two things that you're trying to do, which is either pregnancy or some sort of socially transmitted infection. Right. Not disease. Usually you notice that it's not STD anymore. It's STI. Right. I didn't know that. When did that happen? Maybe she just made the change herself. You think? No, I don't know. Because maybe disease doesn't quite scientifically capture all of that. I'm sure that's it. So, yeah. I don't know when that happened, but I'll bet it was fairly recent. I bet you're right. So one of the two tests that they're really looking at is you don't want it to break and you don't want it to leak. Right? Yeah. So they test the condoms tensile strength. Basically, they just get a bunch of third graders in there and blow the condoms up and see how much volume. It holds until it breaks. Right? Yeah. They're not third graders, but that's pretty much the long and short of it. They inflate them, they stretch them, they fill them with water and hang them up. I guess they're testing either whole batches or selected condoms from the batch. Right. And yeah, they fill it full of water and look at it. That's the utter test. Is that what it's called? Okay, I just made it up, but I think it's good. I bet you that's what they call it on the line. And they're either look at it or else if they want to be slightly more scientific, they'll roll it along like water absorbent paper and see if there's any water. Yeah, and there shouldn't be. Remember, again, latex condoms don't have any kind of pores. No. And then there's another leak test, which is a lot more scientific, or at least it's probably funer to do. I wonder how many factories use this method if it's super modern or what. And it's not just factories doing this. There's also like, third party companies that make their money by testing condoms for factories or maybe as watchdog groups. That's true. So how does the electricity work? So there's a couple of different ones. There's one where they take condoms and they put them at top metal rods that have been dipped in conductive solution. Then they run a current through these metal rods. And the condoms, being rubber, shouldn't be conductive. Right. But if there are holes or tears or anything in them, like, the current will run through the condom and then they have a computer watch to see if any conduct had a current run through them. Right. Then the other one is where they turn the voltage up. Yes. Dry. Yeah. This is a dry test. And they basically like, run a current again through a bunch of condoms. And if there's any holes or whatever, those condoms will burn or melt. Yeah, it stinks. Yeah, burn rubber. Doesn't smell good. So those are the main ways that they will test condoms to make sure that you're all good to go when it's go time. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Slippage. However, something they cannot test for, because slippage, my friend, is up to you how you properly or improperly use the condom. Slippage is user error. Yeah. And I'm ashamed to say that we're about to go over the ten steps on how to properly use a condom. I didn't know about one of them. The circumcised step. Well, I didn't know about that. What is it? Well, we'll get to it. So Tracy says storage is where it starts. You got to store it properly. So heat and light is not good. Yeah. Wallets pockets and glove compartments, in other words, everywhere teenage boy is forced to store their condoms is not where you should store a condom. It's all bad. You want to keep it in a dry, just sort of room temperature like atmosphere. Yes. And not at the roller rink. Look at number two. You look at the package, make sure it's all intact, it's not opened, and it has the expiration date. You're within that range. Yeah. And when you do open it, you want to open it carefully. You want to tear along the one side. Sometimes it's just a notch. Tracy points out you don't want to open it with your teeth or pointing fingernails. Yeah. You don't want to open your teeth for a couple of reasons, but one of them is you don't want to break it. Right. You want to make sure the condom is right side up. This is the one. I didn't know. I didn't know there was a right side. Sure. I didn't know that. Almost 42 years old, and I had no idea that there was an up and a down. I know you're talking about, okay. But there is a way to tell what's up and what's down. And the tip, the reservoir should be pointing up unimpeded. I had no idea that's the top. Right. I'm just learning this. So you take that reservoir and you squeeze the air out of it, hold it shut, clasp it shut with your fingers, put it over the tip of the penis. We're doing this. You realize this? We've suddenly become a sex ed podcast. Yeah. You missed, though. If you are in circumcise, you want to gently pull your foreskin back to relieve the glands. Right. Okay. Which is the tip of the penis. Right. Okay. So you put the tip they put the condom over the tip of the penis with the reservoir squeeze shut, and then you start to enroll it. Take it, Chuck. That's number six. She also pointed out if you don't have it right side up, it won't unroll correctly. That's why there's a top side and a downside, which now explains a lot. Unroll the condom down the length of the penis all the way to the base. You got to take it to the base. Sure. You want full protection here. Otherwise, because if you use a condom perfectly, then we'll find out your chances of disease and pregnancy are virtually nil. Problems arises when you maybe not roll it all the way down or you accidentally get a testicle caught in there. If you need lube, use a water based lube. You don't want to make the mistake of using like Vaseline, I guess it should say petroleum jelly, right. Or baby oil or lotions or anything like that. Anything that could have petroleum, yeah. That's all oil based. And that's going to not do you any favors in the reliability department. Right. You want it to be water based lubricant. That's right. But she also points out that using extra lubricant is effective in preventing breakage during anal penetration, but in vaginal penetration, it can actually increase the likelihood of breakage of the condom. I did not know that. I did not know that either. We're learning right along with you people. Yeah. I'm so glad I'm not the UCS anymore. Being married is great. Yeah. So after the male ejaculates, this is postcoital ejaculation. You hope. You hope. Yeah, that's true. You want to hold the rim of the condom to keep it from slipping off when you exit the vagina and withdraw the penis before the erection is lost. You don't want to have the condom on. Lose your erection while you're still in mid penetrations mode. Sure. And then you want to run outdoors to begin the disposal process, which, as we said, ends in the yard, right? That's right. Remove the condom, wrap it in a tissue, put it in the garbage can, and don't reuse it. No matter what your friend says, don't reuse it and don't wear two of them. Yeah. A lot of people have latex allergies, and 99% of late condoms are latex. So some people say, well, latex works the best. I'll just use a sheepskin membrane condom over my penis and then put a latex one over that. Apparently. That is basically just really upping the risk of breakage of both. Yes. Or if you think two is better than one. I don't know where this person has been. That's just not smart. You should probably not be with that person. If you're thinking about wearing two condoms, just walk away from the bowling alley and go home or the roller rink again. Yeah. And Tracy also points out for our younger listeners, condoms break more often if they're blown up or filled with water before use. Don't use it as a toy and then use it as a disease preventor. Right. And if it breaks, stop what you're doing, get a new one. Yeah, that's a big one, because you don't want to be like, oh, well, I went through the first couple of steps doing it, it was fine. If you're serious about this, then what you're trying to do is prevent pregnancy or infection. You're going to want to replace it like it's worth if you used it in the first place, then you might as well stop for a second to get another one. Right. Don't be a jerk, I guess, is what you're saying. Seriously? You're trying to prevent, like you said, pregnancy? Most people are when they use condoms or more than 30 types of viruses or bacterial infections or parasites. Right? Yeah. Sex is dirty business. It certainly can be. I think this proves that there is a God. All right, so you know all those diseases and bacteria for the most part. Do we need to go over those? Sure. Chlamydia, genital, herpes, genital, warts, gonorrhea, hepatitis B, HIV, of course, pubic life, syphilis, trichomoniasis, yeast infections. These and many more can all be yours if you don't use a condom and you sleep with somebody who has any of them. Yes. And genital wards and herpes and pubic life and a few other STIs can still be yours even if you do use a condom because they are not passed through the fluids, they are passed through skin and hair and other stuff down there in that area. Yeah. So Chuck, how effective are condoms? Like you said, when you use them correctly, they work. Like they've been proven to work. Like we have come to the pinnacle of male prophylaxis with the latex condom. It totally works. If you use it correctly and you use it every time, you're going to be fine. And they know this by doing studies of specifically serotiscordant couples, which means one couple has HIV and one person in the couple has HIV the other partner doesn't. And they found that people who used a condom correctly every time they had sex had pretty much a nil chance or z chance of contracting HIV by the end of this study. Yeah. That's a two year period of these couples. So there's a lot of sex going on. It wasn't just like, hey, you had sex one time and you didn't get HIV. It's great. Right. So a good study from UNAIDS or UN AIDS, right, that makes sense. UNAIDS, like they're fighting AIDS, they should be called UNAIDS. Is this United Nations, though? Yeah. Okay. They found that couples that didn't use them all the time just kind of here and there had a 14% to 21% chance of contracting HIV during the study. Yeah. And pregnancy prevention is pretty similar over the course of the year. And of course I don't see any ages or anything like that here. It just says a woman. But a woman using a condom over the course of year who uses it perfectly for every active sexual intercourse with a man has only a chance of becoming pregnant. So 97% effective. That's pretty good. Sure. If you use a condom typically, which is apparently not that great, not that well, and you're a woman, you have 12% chance of an unplanned pregnancy. But both of those beat not using anything at all, which leads to an 85% chance of getting pregnant over the course of a year just by having sex. It doesn't say how many men or anything like that? No. Any trips to the roller rink this entails? So what year is it? There's still a lot of roller rink sex going on. What got me started was the idea of a condom, like in your pocket. Sure. Remember the condom ring in the jeans or in your wallet or whatever? Yeah. Just associate that with the roller rink and like kids with half mustaches and mullets and stuff like that. That's where the roller rink reference came from. All right, so some folks say that, you know what, if you make condoms available to my teenager it's going to encourage them to have sex. Studies suggest that that is not the case. This one study observed over 4000 teenagers over an eight year period which is a pretty good study, if you ask me. By the end of the study, all of the participants were sexually active, and the teenagers who use condoms during their first sexual encounter were not more likely to have more partners than those who did not. But the condom using teens were less likely to have been diagnosed with gonorrhea or chlamydia. So this study at least points out that it's not going to encourage promiscuity, but it will keep you from getting pregnant and disease. Yeah, I think being in your teens encouraged promiscuity. And that's kind of the whole argument. It's like, are they going to do it anyway? And if they are, then make sure they have plenty of condoms. And other people say, well, they're not going to do it anyway, they just need to abstain. And condoms are like the devil's temptation. I'm ready for humanity to evolve more in that realm. Like, it made sense for 18 year old males to be at their peak of sexual prowess and girls being able to get pregnant when they were 14, 300 years ago, when we were living to 30 years old, it made sense. These days, it's just like a cruel joke. Well, you know, what's interesting is we're actually going the other direction. Like, puberty is coming younger and younger. The average boy enters puberty and doesn't mean sexual maturation, but begins puberty at, like, age seven or eight. Now, that's crazy. And see, nowadays, people are getting not everyone, but people are waiting longer in general to get married and have a family, and it's getting harder and harder for older people to get pregnant, much less the man who starts the decline. After 18 years old, you get married in your mid 30s, it's like, sorry, my best days were wasted. Right, well, which is ironic, because by that time, you can grow a decent mustache. I know. All right, so there's this whole thing associated with condoms. They are a unique breed of product. Yeah. If you look at them as a commodity, as a retail product, then they should be the same as candy or toy or what have you. But something that these other products lack is what's called social marketing, which is what makes condoms virtually unique. There is a great public interest in condoms being purchased and distributed and easily gotten by everybody in the world. True. Whether it's for population control, which is pretty sinister sounding, or through disease prevention, but governments around the world invest heavily in condoms, and by doing that, they basically just buy a bunch of condoms and turn around and sell them at a discount. Yeah. It's called social marketing. And the idea is that if they don't want to make them free, although there are plenty of places that give out condoms. Sure. But they want to make them very cheap for those who can't afford them, because the idea is that if you pay for something, you're more likely to use. It sort of like the co ed model. These kids who pay for their textbooks, instead of just giving them textbooks, they're more likely to use it. So I don't know why I made that connection. But it's the same thing. Well, it is. It's the exact same principle. You have some sort of ownership over something you've paid for? Yes. And Tracy said the rule of thumb is that a year's supply of condom should cost no more than 1% of the target countries per capita gross national product. And I don't think that's just Tracy saying that either. Well, now, she didn't make that up. So the other aspect of it, one part of social marketing is buying condoms and distributing them for cheap. And this is like federal government, national, government level stuff. And then the other side of it is educating the public. Yeah. You got to wear them. Yeah. And you have to know how to wear them. We could probably get some federal funding for this episode, if you ask me. How about a little kickback? You have to know how to wear them. You have to know what they do. You have to know why to wear why you should wear them. You should be able to explain it in plain, simple terms to anybody who is riding a bus that if they don't wear a condom, they can die or their junk can fall off, or there's all sorts of terrible stuff that can happen to you if you don't wear a condom. Right? Yeah. And it's been pretty successful in countries like Thailand, where they have a big commercial sex industry. In 1989, they started a campaign for commercial sex workers to use condoms 100% of the time, always use them, and pretty amazing results. In 1989, before the campaign, 14% of the sex workers had consistently used condoms. By 1994, just five years later, 94% used condoms. And not coincidentally, STI cases diagnosed among sex workers fell from over 4000 per year to just under 30,000 per year. Right. That's a huge drop off. Yeah. Just use the condom. That's all you got to do. The rest of the world watch Thailand. Their jaws fell open, so they started buying condoms like crazy. So, like, in 2000, for example, south Africa bought 250,000,000 condoms, 290,000,000 condoms. Botswana purchased 12 million, 450,000,000 condoms in India. This is a ton of condoms we're talking about. That was just 2000. Right. Many tons of condoms. Right. Apparently the condom industry, which is just loving this social marketing stuff, is producing between eight and 12 billion condoms a year. Right. Apparently we would need 15 billion to effectively cover everybody for a year. Everybody is sexually active. You would need 15 billion condoms. So they're close, but not close enough. Right. That means everybody in the world does it more than twice a year because there's like 6 billion people on the planet. Right. Well, I mean, if you want to average out like that. I think a lot of people aren't, and a lot of people are doing it more. But sure, if you want to throw an average on it. The thing is, we're short of condoms, which is mind boggling. There's only 60 factories on the planet making condoms for the whole world. Yeah. So when you look at it like that, it's pretty impressive. But apparently the condom industry is stepping up the call and by 2015 is projected to have to produce 25 billion condoms. There you go. That's a $6 billion industry. That's good. But what's crazy is that the $6 billion industry, los Angeles County, from porn, makes one 6th of the equivalent of the entire condom industry's. Money. In porn? In just porn in just that one county. Yeah. See how everything's connected? I do. So here in the United States, the FDA controls something called good Manufacturing practices, rules and standards for making drugs and things like condoms. So the FDA has standards. There are also international standards. The International Organization for Standardization, they have their own standards that cover these medical devices and they have silly numbers attached to them. But that really means nothing to anyone, does it? Well, in case you ever wanted to know, ISO 40 74 two is the international standard for condom manufacture and distribution. That's right. And we're talking about standards. We're talking about acceptable levels of condoms that are defective per batch. I would imagine the average consumer is like, zero. Yeah, that'd be nice. Accreditation for labs that test these procedures. Material, shelf life, stability. They're just making sure all that is up to snuff. Yeah. And again, as we said, the standards are in this manual called zapping, popping, Rolling and other condom testing tools. Is that bear repeating? Yeah, condoms. They're a little more acceptable to buy these days. Shouldn't be embarrassed to walk into your grocery store and buy condoms, said the 41 year old. Exactly. But it's not that way for everyone. It's not that way for every group because they are taboo in some religions. Catholicism famously does not allow the use of contraception. Orthodox Judaism, apparently Islam does allow it if you are married, heterosexuals. Heterosexuals, homer foot, and you have reason to prevent pregnancy. And then conservative Christian groups have long promoted abstinence rather than the use of condoms, and sometimes even fought the education and distribution of condoms for reasons we said earlier. Like they think it makes their children promiscuous and they will want to have sex because they now have this condom that is the key to them wanting to have sex. Right. And it's not up to the government to carry out population control. Exactly. 1988 in Nevada has been mandatory to use condoms if you are in a brothel. So, highly regulated sex industry there in Nevada. Nevada. Nevada. Excuse me. So Josh, who uses condoms? Everybody who can get their hands on them apparently uses condoms. The UN says that two thirds of the world has read and available access, ready and easy access to condoms. Right. Yeah. And they actually created a definition. You have to cows love the unready and easy access to condoms mean you have to spend less than 2 hours a month buying condoms. So I guess like taking a bus into town or something like that. Yeah. If you live in the middle of nowhere in Africa, it might take a while to get a condom. So this distribution net of condoms needs to be pretty wide, pretty woven. Well woven, yeah. And then you also don't want to pay more than 1% of a person's monthly take home pay wherever they live. That's right. So when the UN in the world is trying to distribute these and make them available, those are the criteria they look for as far as like what they are going to charge people, maybe in one of these less developed countries. Right. And we found that because of efforts like this, condom use around the world has increased. Apparently prior to the 80s, evaluations of condom usage has just been like married couples. I don't understand why. I don't know. Apparently thing it was maybe tawdry or something, who knows? But the Brits went ahead and did a survey in 1950 and found that for their first sexual encounter, 30% of men and women used a condom. By 1990, about 60% did. Right. So there's definite increase in condom usage. They found that people who live with their partners typically use condoms less. Yeah, that makes sense. I guess the older you are, the less likely you'll be to use condoms. Probably again, because you're in a long term monogamous relationship. Right. And then people with latex allergies tend to not use condoms. Yeah. And these were studies from Europe mainly, but I imagine it's pretty similar in other parts of the world. Yes, but hearteningly people in Netherlands, France, Belgium and Britain, they found that the more partners a person had, the more likely they were to use condoms. To use a jimmy hat. A French letter. French letter. I don't even know what that one is. All right. There are female condoms that are fairly new when did they come around? Approved here in the United States and 93. And it is a polyurethane sheet, sort of like the male condom, except it's got two rings, one on either end, one a little smaller on one end, and that fits in the woman's vagina. And it sort of is just like a reverse of what the male condom is. Some of the benefits is a woman can put this in beforehand, whereas a man obviously has to be go time, has to have the erect penis. Right, exactly. Like the woman can insert this anytime. Anytime. Well, I'm sure there are recommendations for how long that you use this thing as well. Sure. But it is another barrier method that protects against HIV and pregnancy and they tend to be reusable. Yes. Because it's polyurethane. You can use oil based lubricants. Yes. And also in places where it's difficult or impossible, because of social norms, for a woman to insist that the guy wear a condom. This is very useful because it's given control of who uses the condominium to the woman. True. It is more expensive, which is one of the disadvantages, and that could lead some people in developing nations to wash it and reuse it, which is not recommended. And apparently in trials, clinical trials, it's slightly less effective at preventing pregnancy and STIs than male condoms. But it's way better than nothing, obviously. Sure. What else do we have? We have spray on condoms. Yeah. Sort of. Not yet. They're still being toyed with, apparently. Yeah. This guy named I can't remember his first name. His last name is Krause. He's a sex educator from Germany, and he apparently had trouble finding condoms that fit him when he was a younger man. He's 30 now. I get the idea that he was small. Oh, I got the idea. The opposite idea. I don't know, because later in the article, he talked about being small and, like, I want to make condoms for smaller guys, because I missed that part. Yeah. The new idea is to have a range of sizes, like six sizes. The market is wide open for small condoms. Apparently, Trigon tried it a few years ago and discontinued them almost immediately because they didn't sell any condoms for the smaller man or something. Right. Yeah. Although Magnum condoms have 17% of the market share. They're, like, 15% bigger than normal condoms. Yeah. And Krause, his theory is that guys that are smaller don't want to walk into a store and buy the small condoms. Right. So he wants to I mean, he's working on the spray on condom, but he's also working on different sizes that I think are a little more the packaging is a little less obvious. It's not like you don't walk up and buy, like, the teeny weenie. Well, he originally I think he wants to make it a little more claimed, destined. He originally set up this website, which is pretty cool, where you can download this measuring tape that you print out and use, and then you enter in your dimensions in the website, and it brings up all of the condoms for sale in Germany that are, likeliest, to fit you best. This is pretty cool. Yeah. But now he's created the spray on condom. Yeah. Here's how this thing works. You put your penis in a tube, and it sprays from many different directions. The condom latex onto your penis, your erect penis. Right. And then it has to dry, which is one of the problems. It hisses when it sprays. So some dudes are worried that that might ruin the mood. Some guys were a little worried about putting their penis in this tube, period. Sure. And then liquid latex takes about two to three minutes to vulcanize. And in order for people to buy these things, he thinks it's going to have to be ready in like five to 10 seconds. Sure. Because it's like you better learn how to juggle or something to keep the interest going for those couple of minutes. Is that what does it juggling? Juggling or I don't know, maybe making an omelet. And then there are the antirape condoms, which are controversial, to say the least. Oh, yeah, a South African doctor came up with these and they are like the female condom. But it's also like I hate to say it, but the closest analogy is like a Chinese fingertrap. Yeah. Once the goes in, there's these plastic teeth that hold it in place, and only a doctor can remove this basically giant female condom that's now attached to your penis. And the reason she came up with this was because rape in South Africa is out of control. Some survey from 2009 found that one in four South African men admit to raping a woman and that they think possibly 1.4 million women are raped in South Africa every year. That's the population of Phoenix. Unbelievable. So this woman came up with this. It's basically like the female condom that will immediately inflict pain on the rapist. The woman can, I guess, get away. But the man stuck with this on, right. And he has to go to the emergency room where hopefully the police will be there to arrest him. Well, the woman doesn't necessarily get away, which is one of the pitfalls that she admits to. It could encourage violence against the woman in the moment. And another person from the CDC says that it's also a form of enslavement. It's a constant reminder of a woman's vulnerability, and it gives them also a false sense of security. But the psychological trauma of the rape is still there. But at least you're going to catch the guy, is their rationale. And when people say that have told her this is a medieval thing that you're coming up with, she says, so is rape. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Yeah. And that thing is called the rape axe rapaxe. And I believe it's rapax.com, maybe or something that takes you to the website. But if you type in Raybax into your search browser, that's going to bring that up. Great. What else, Chuck? I don't have anything else. You don't want to talk about the goat condom. That's population control, man. All right, let's talk about it. We are goats. To some people, there's something called an odor that it's basically this impediment that hangs from the abdomen of a male goat that keeps him from it's a barrier to prevent him from penetrating the female during intercourse. Right? Yes. And they use this to control goat population so that they don't starve. And it's not something that goes on the penis. I think it's just a physical barrier. Just like a male goat chastity belt that the goat knocks into called an olar. Yeah. Thank God for that. Yeah. It's good, though, crack wise, but sure better than starving goats. That is condoms. Well done. Well done to you, too. Not much giggling. I wonder how many times you said penis. Penis. A bunch more than we ever have in a conversation, I would say. I would say that's probably fairly accurate. I wonder if we top that. Saturday Night Live gets use of penis. Remember at the nudist camp? Oh, yeah. With Kevin Nealon and Mike Myers. Hey, penis. That's great. Let's see. If you want to know more about condoms, you can find this very thorough, comprehensive article on the subject by typing condom into the search bar athouseofworks.com. You can also type in sex and reproduction and it'll bring up a lot of really good, well written, well researched articles that will probably answer a lot of questions you might have about that kind of thing. Yeah, I think we should start peppering these throughout. Do a little more sex ed here and there. Okay, that's good. Since we said Chuck said sexed, you know what that means. You know what that means. It's time for listener mail. All right, I'm going to call this music experiment. You guys are awesome. Been listening since about 2010. Just listen to why does music provoke emotion? Thought I would share an experiment that I did a few years ago. I came up with the idea of listening to my music in sequential order by year of release. I remember. Yeah, it was pretty cool. I don't have his name, though. I feel awful. I started dividing it up by five years, and each five year period took about one and a half to two weeks. So he's basically only listening to that era in order, one at a time. Right. So like the fifth week of September 1962, which never existed like that. Well, just in order. Like, I'm listening to the 1950s music for this week. So the whole thing ended up taking about three and a half months, which is much longer than I plan. I'm a big music guy, and I started at around pre 1950s. I should note that while I did this, I did my best to isolate myself musically, avoided listening to anything else that wasn't from that period that I was in that week. It's kind of cool. It ended up being one of the most rewarding experiences I've had in a long time, aside from noticing many new things and songs I listened to countless times before. I feel like I began forming a connection with the time period of the music I was listening to, even when I was short. I'm wearing a poodle skirt right now. At times I could almost feel the angst or even excitement of events long past as if I had lived them. Events that weren't necessarily mentioned are addressed in the songs themselves. By the time I was done, I felt like I had traveled through time. I had a strange connection with events I had never experienced, except through the music that was popular at the time of those events. Many things that didn't make much sense to me musically all of a sudden had a different significance. That's cool. So thanks for the work, guys. It definitely makes my drive to work a much more enjoyable. Thanks again. And I wish I had your name. We'll read it if you send it in. Okay? Yeah. So sorry. Gary or Billy. Or Johnny or Fred Cole. See, we don't want people's condom stories, do we? Do we? Of course we do. That seems like a bad idea. I think it's a great idea. Well, then you ask for it, guys. We want your condom stories. Ladies. We want your condom stories. Okay, if you live in New York City and you can explain that's a good one. The condoms on the street. Sidewalk. Great one. Although what's there to explain, really? Well, I mean, where they come from? Maybe they're coming up from the sewer. Oh, that's a good idea. Maybe they are. Or maybe they're being tossed out of cab. Maybe they're from the roller rink. Anyway, if you want to get in touch with us, you can tweet to us at SYSK podcast. You can join us on Facebook. Comsteffynow. And you can send us a good old fashioned email, too. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howistofworks.com summer school's out. The sun is shining. The daylight is longer. So whether you're road tripping or relaxing poolside, tune into the podcast series on Amazon Music that's so good, it's Criminal Morbid. Part true crime and part comedy, Morbid takes you on a journey from murderous mysteries to major laughs, all in the same week. Hosted by autopsy technician Elena Ercart and hairstylist Ash Kelly, this chart topping series will have you hooked before you know it. Listen to new episodes of Morbid one week early, only on Amazon Music. Download the free Amazon Music app and listen today." | |
How Braille Works | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-braille-works | Josh and Chuck discuss the Braille alphabet -- from its origins in Charles Barbier's "night writing" system to the many different types of tactile alphabets that exist today -- in this episode of Stuff You Should Know. | Josh and Chuck discuss the Braille alphabet -- from its origins in Charles Barbier's "night writing" system to the many different types of tactile alphabets that exist today -- in this episode of Stuff You Should Know. | Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:28:12 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2010, tm_mon=2, tm_mday=11, tm_hour=16, tm_min=28, tm_sec=12, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=42, tm_isdst=0) | 28098362 | audio/mpeg | "Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. So, Chuck, it's really hot here. Yes. We are still in Guatemala on here on Thursday. Yeah. Although we recorded this, we bypassed the spacetime continuum to fool you all, and it's actually quite comfortable here in the studio. It is. It's lovely. And hopefully neither one of them died from typhoid at this point or been taken hostage, which, I got to tell you, I'm worried about. Right. And hopefully what's happening is you guys are reading about this on our blog@housetoporks.com, stuff You Should Know blog. Right. Depending on the Internet, we are uploading daily posts about our experience here. Either that or if what Chuck just said proves false, that means that we have a spotty Internet down in Guatemala, and all of them will be uploaded the following week after we get back. Right. That's it. Okay, so look for those live now on the blogs@households.com or the week beginning the 15th. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me, as always, as Charles W. Bryant and guest producer Matt Frederick. Yeah, matt is filling in for Jerry, who's sick right now because she's got the hepatitis. She doesn't really I got the hepatitis now. You don't what do you think they injected us with, folks? We got hepatitis shots, by the way, because we are traveling to Central America, Guatemala, and they said that that's a good thing to get. And I don't know what they inject you with. They inject you with inactive hepatitis so your body can form anybody, right? Sure. When you get with the active one, it's like, you can't stay here. See, Jerry got sick, and I was like, I feel good. I feel awful. My arms hurt. I feel sore. I feel like I'm getting sick because I also got the TDAP. Yeah. The tetanus diphtheria. Yeah. And I don't feel very good right now. Chuck, do you remember last year when I got sick for, like, 18 straight weeks? That was fun. I'm hoping to fight this one off. So we got Matty in here. It was a pleasure. Hi, Matt. Of lines and scissors. Are you guys still together? Sort of. At one point, the singer left and the guitar player left, and Matt was left with a drum kit and, like, a part time keyboard player or something. You can make something these days with that. I think it's weeks later, they decided they wanted to be in the band again now, so I think they were working on a reunion tour now, and it all began with a camping trip that one person wasn't invited to. It's historic. So, Matt, good to have you here, my friend. I concur. Do you have an intro, or should we just say, let's talk about braille? Let's talk about braille. I do a little bit. You know much about Louis Braille? Yeah, sure. Louis Braille invented braille because he was a blind boy. You know how he got blind? Yeah. He stuck something sharp in his eye. He did? Yeah, in all. AWL. Yes. Thank you. My thick tongue does not allow distinction between all and all. He did that when he was three years old. Yes. His dad was a leather worker, and he used the all, which is basically a very sharp pointed instrument with you could lobotomize somebody with it. It's a little big, but sure. He almost lobotomized himself with his gruesome lobotomy. He was screwing around with it and it slid out of his hand and hit his eye. Right. Yeah. And then what? He got infected? Yeah, he got infected. And then he lost sight in his other eye because of sympathetic ophthalmia, which is when one eye says, well, if that eye is not going to stick around, then I'm going to go off the duty as well. But that wasn't mentioned in this article. I thought that was surprising. It is a bit surprising. That reminds me of a King of the Hill, where Hank Hill goes blind in one eye and then he goes blind in the other. And Gary, his mom's boyfriend, is like, I've never heard of an eye sympathetically shutting down before. I was hoping you're going to say it has something to do with Khan. No, I can't do a good can. That was good. All you got to say is con. Right. I'm la ocean, and then you're supposed to say you're from the ocean. I can't do a good hand hill either. None of those. I don't watch it anymore. I already brought Tom Petty on. I'm like this. Is he on that show? You're kidding. Yeah. As a character or as Tom Petty. As a character. It's awful. I love Petty and I love King of the Hill. How do you love Tom Petty? Because he's great. I'm sorry, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. You're awful. Anyway, wow. We already got off on a tangent. All right. Louis Brown was not one to be kept down no. Despite it all sticking into his eye and going completely blind by age three. True. Right. Yeah. He was inspired, in fact, some years later, when he was a teen, by a visitor that came from the Royal Institution for Blind Youth. Right. Guy named Charles Barbier. Yeah. And this was in the early 1820s or mid 18 tweeties, depending on who you ask. Late 1820s. Other sources say early. OK. Another issue with this article, alright. And this guy Barbie had invented a code called night writing to allow soldiers to communicate to each other in the dark. And this is not to be confused with night rider or night swimming. No. Is it not Night Rider? I thought it was night rider. Night Rider. I thought he invented the car. No, he invented night riding. Okay. Totally different. And that did not catch on in army. Okay. Right. So he went to the School for the Blind, where Louis Braille was twelve when Barbier visited, I guess, and boom. Yeah. Smart little kid says, I can use this, and he could. And actually, within three years, he'd worked out the kinks. He basically optimized night riding and created his own system, which we know and love now. Is braille at age 15. Yeah, by age 20, he published his first book in Braille. Awesome. It was probably large and bulky, but strangely enough, Braille didn't catch on globally or even in France until after he died. Right. And even then it was popular with the Institute for Blind Youth, but it still wasn't, like, super widespread because, and this is something I didn't know, this is like a totem polecast. There's all these little tidbits. I never knew there were competing codes, and different inventors came up with different codes. So clearly, when there's different systems out there, it's going to be hard to decide which one to use and hard for one to become widespread. Right. So that's one reason. Did you know there's no universal sign language? I believe I did know that, yeah. One of the competing, I guess, tactile alphabet is what you would call these things in general. It was created by a guy named Valentine Howie. Yeah. I don't even know. You shouldn't even try. H-A-U umlaut y. It's not utter. No, it's, umlaut he created a system that is basically kind of wavy Latin characters. Yeah. It looked very much like the characters that we use here in the west. Sure. But they were a little wavery, a little more elongated, I guess, ostensibly so that you could feel them more easily. And still to this day, some people consider this type of tactile writing easier to learn. Yeah, true. Very good point. Thanks. The thing is, Braille eventually did catch on Chuck, and these days, Louis Braille is looked upon in much the same way that Johann Gutenberg is. Yeah, sure. I think actually, Helen Keller, on the anniversary, the 100th anniversary of Louis Braille's death, said something along the lines of, in our small way, we, the blind, are as indebted to Louis Braille as mankind is the Gutenberg. Sure. He basically took a group of humans who were virtually unrecognized in the educational system and gave them a way to become educated people. Right. Created literacy. Both of them did, yeah. Among the blind. Yeah. And they both took a little while to catch on, largely because one of the reasons we said with the Braille was because they were competing codes. But they're also the Braille books were really bulky and large. Still are. Well, they still are, but back then, dude, it was even worse. Like, you didn't want to be lugging around Braille books in your rucksack. No. And Tracy, who wrote this article, is a huge Harry Potter fan. Indeed. So she described how big Harry Potter and what the half blood. Something else. Something, I don't know. Whatever Harry Potter prints. There you go. That Harry Potter book is 14 volumes long, and it's Braille edition. Wow, that's long. Yeah. And yeah, they're heavy. They have to be published using loose leaf with a ring binder down the middle sure. So that the pages can sit flat so you can hit the cells all the way. And I think, actually, Chuck, we may be getting ahead of ourselves a little bit. Let's talk about Braille at its basis, okay. Like what it is, literally. Yes. Well, Josh, Louis Braille realized that the night writing method used cells to create an alphabet using dots and dashes. Yeah. And originally, Braille use dashes as well. Does not anymore. No, but the Braille sells today. They're a little bit different than the original Braille. They do not use dashes. Like you said, they are two dots wide and three dots tall. Right. At this point, I want everybody who's listening to this podcast to close your eyes, okay? Okay, you have in your head a cell made up of six dots. Like Chuck just said, it's two dots across and three dots down in each of the columns, right? Yes. So you have one, two, three dots down. And to the next column to the right, you have one, two, three dots down. Now, if you go to the first dot on the first column, which would be the one on the left hand side yes. That's the number one dot. Right. The one below that is two. And then three. At the top of the right hand line of dots, you have four, and then five, and then six. Yeah. Using these six dots, you can create 63 character combinations. Correct, Josh. And you would think pretty easy, because we've only got 26 letters in our alphabet, but they also have to cover punctuation, contractions, musical notes and symbols. Basically, anything you can think of that you would be able to read with your eyes. It needs to be accounted for within those Braille dots. Right. And there are some in the original Braille, the English Braille alphabet. Right. There is some punctuation included, like, close your eyes again. Everybody go back to the Braille cell and think of it like a domino. That's a rectangle with the dots inside. Okay. A dot imposition. Two alone is a comma. So remember that's the middle one on the left hand column. Okay. One that is in position. Six alone is the capital sign. Right. So you put that before the next character, and you know that it's a capital letter. Yeah. And it just kind of goes on like this. Right. And you also have to represent the numbers, too, we forgot to add. So zero through nine are represented, and you can obviously make up any combination with those. And you zero through nine are actually the same thing as letters A through J. Yes. But before each number, you would have a number sign, which, like, you have a capital sign before the next letter to indicate that it's a number. So the number sign is the letter or the third position, and then four, five and six. And then you might have Abcdefghi or J, and then that would be a number instead of a letter. It sounds so complicated. It does. But I imagine if you are looking at a book for the first time, because I don't remember back that far. I'm glad you said that, but if you're looking at a normal book, you're probably like, I couldn't think of anything more complicated than I have to do. Exactly. And that's the point. I'm glad you brought that up, because they say that it is very much like learning to read and write for the first time using the same pathways in the brain. And should we talk about the Wonder Machine real quick, since I brought that up? Yeah. This is really interesting. Yes. The fMRI, when people read braille, their visual cortex visual cortex actually fires up. Yeah. And there's a couple of theories why. The first is that when you are blind, you have basically this storage area that is put to use doing other stuff. Yeah. Pretty cool. Right? Which would be tactile sensory input rather than visual sensory input. Right. And then the other theory, Chuck, is that the language processing centers actually serve as holding areas for this tactile information. So cool. Yeah. But because it's the brain, we really have no clue. We just don't know when it's firing up and when it's not. I've lost a tremendous amount of faith in the Wonder Machine, dude. Really? Yeah. I read the study where this guy scanned a dead salmon while he showed up pictures of humans and asked them what emotions it was showing, and he got a response. That's disappointing. Yes, it is. So, moving on, josh, a typical line of braille is about 40 characters, and a typical page of braille is about 25 lines. Right. So think about that domino. Each domino is a character and an uncontracted braille, or grade one braille. Every word is spelled out letter by letter, which is why the Harry Potter book is 14 volumes long. Yeah, exactly. Right. So to combat against the huge bulkiness, they've come up with contracted braille, grade two braille. And this is when they group or they contract braille, literally using representations of whole words or letter combinations. Or like shorthand. Yeah. Like ing or ed or the or and they have their own rather than three cells for and you just have one, and it's and right. But there's a little controversy. There is always some people say that uncontracted braille is really important because it's a foundation for learning contracted braille. And opponents say that uncontracted braille is time and space consuming, and basically, you just don't need to learn two codes. Right. So why bother? It's a good question. I guess a good answer would be that what is the standard what are you going to encounter, contracted or uncontracted? When you're at the ATM machine and you're reading the keys? Is that contracted or uncontracted? I'm pretty sure, if I remember correctly, it's uncontracted because there's one dot at the number one position, et cetera. I can read that kind of braille. Well, yeah. And actually, there's a great illustration showing Basic, the English braille alphabet, and it seems like something you could pick up if you really set your mind to it. That'd be kind of cool. Should we talk more about how you read it? Like, you read it from left to right, like a regular book, but you write it right to left. Is that correct? Yes. When you make the impression on the page, you have to do it going from right to left, because, think about it, you're going to be flipping the page over to read the bump. Pretty interesting. It is very interesting. Pretty clever. And you can do this handheld still with a stylus? Yes. Some books are translated from site books to braille by hand. That takes hundreds of hours, but that's not the way to do it anymore. I mean, you can, but there's different ways. Now you can get a braille rider, which has a key for each of the six dots of the cell. Makes sense. Makes sense. You can actually get a regular cordy keyboard attached to a braille printer. Very easy to use. And what else, Josh? Well, if you want to read in the future, right now, there's Movable type that reads a screen line by line, and you have basically like a pad that has recessed pins that represent a dot. Right. Pretty cool. And then based on what the line of text on the screen says, the corresponding dots pop up and you read them. And then as it goes down, they refresh and then pop up again. It's very motorized. It's very cool. I actually read an article about a NASA scientist who's figured out how to use, I think they're called, like, active polymers, artificial muscles, basically, to create a very highly compressed movable type braille keyboard. So you could apply it to the iPhone or whatever it looks like the future of it. That's pretty cool. Yeah. And then obviously, if you want to skirt around all the braille, blind people use things like screen readers for their computer to audio books, obviously, and recordings of lectures or friends and family letters from their friends and family. But I don't know if you remember we did something on the Webcast on a blind man being blind in modern society, and The New York Times, and this guy was very anti all these readers. He said it basically makes blind people lazy and they need to get out and learn braille, just as you need to go out and learn how to read, because you get a better understanding of a word if you understand how to spell it and write it and read it. Plus, also you use a different part of your brain to process language orally than you do visually or tactically. So, I mean, there's like a whole part of your brain that would be underdeveloped and that is in and of itself is a bad idea. Yeah, I would think so. You can scan books now, too. That's one of the easier ways to translate now using optical character recognition technology. And you can scan a book and they can translate it into Braille for you, or you can send it to a braille printer. Well, yeah, sure. You can understand, though, why somebody who is blind would want to listen to an audiobook. Yeah, it's faster. It is faster. Apparently, the average Braille reader can read at a rate of 125 to 200 words per minute. By contrast, the average cited 8th grader can read about 205 words per minute. And college students read about 280 words per minute. So if you're in college and you're blind, it's probably not even necessarily a question of laziness, it's a question of just trying to keep up. Right, sure. I'm a slow reader. What about you? Very slow. Are you? Yeah. Interesting. I am, too. Like, when I read a book, I call it deliberate. You read slow, but I read very deliberately, and I'll reread a sentence to get it just right. I'm not a scanner at all. No, I'm not either. And I say, Scanners stink. I do, too. Chuck, these people that I see reading, like, you take these tests where you read, see how fast you can read, reading comprehension. And I've done this on, like, people's blogs, and people logged on and said they read this many words, and I literally did my eyes and time myself, and I can't even scan that fast. I don't see how they can be absorbing these words. They're probably not. It's all just sitting there and working memory for a minute, and then it's gone. I ingest it, buddy. I do, too. Like a pie. Like pie or like a pie? Like a whole pie. Okay, I thought you meant like pie. So, Chuck, still, like we said, there's braille all over the place. Many languages of braille specific to that country. Yeah. Again, there's no universal braille. There's not even a universal English braille. The braille in the UK and Wales and the United States are all different. Well, yeah, they're different codes. And luckily, we have the brilliant authority of North America here in the US of A, and they do publish standards for these codes. But you have to know what code you're reading, because the same cell can mean one thing in one code and something else in a different code. Right. And also there's notations. There's braille for music. Sure. English Braille, American edition is used for things like novels and magazines, basically literature. Right, right. Then you have the Nemeth coda braille mathematics and scientific notation for math and science. Sure. Because, I mean, think about sigma. There's nothing in the English alphabet that signifies sigma. Right. And that thing pops up a lot and terrifies me whenever I see it in an equation. Me, too. Then you've got computer braille code for ASCII, as CI, aka. Two ASCII. Right. And chemical notations and music. Right? Right. So the whole point of these standard authorities is to bring all this together so that the unsighted people in their country can all know what the hell they're reading. Right. And like we said, every country literally has their own braille. There's even Chinese braille with the characters representing sounds that make up the language. Yeah. Hebrew braille. Josh as well, which sounds like the grade one braille with each letter and number representing its own. Right. And then, of course, Chuck, there's the newest braille alphabet, which is tibetan welcome Tibetan braille to the family. A woman named Sabri Ten Burke created the code so that she could read Tibetan manuscripts. And she realized that she had just created a new braille language and took it to Tibet and started teaching blind Tibetan children. That's awesome. Tibetan braille. You could literally invent a braille method if you wanted to. Oh, I have. Really? Yeah. Josh braille. Yeah. And they're still working on this? Many countries have agencies and departments that evaluate their own codes and try and institute or implement new improvements in technology, that kind of thing. Like this one. I thought, I don't understand the benefit here. So there's a new display prototype that can be rolled up like paper. Yeah. Do we still do scrolls? Who does that? I think that's on its way out with the refreshable type. Aside from your diploma and what else? Poster of anything that has to do with papyrus. It's generally scrolled, silk, that kind of thing. I guess that's a good thing. And then braille libraries. Web braille libraries available online. So it seems like braille is everywhere, right? Sure. I'll tell you one place. It's not in the United States. No, it's just the fact of the day. Our currency. Chuck, out of 180 countries in the world that use paper currency, the United States is the only one that makes its paper currency the same size and the same shape, regardless of denomination. If you are blind, you have to come up with your own clever tricks to keep track of it. And although it probably rarely happens, you're constantly under threat of being ripped off because you have no idea. You just know. You have a paper bill. It could be a one or 100. You have no clue. Sure. They fold the bills. Isn't that one of the tricks? That is one trick. And there is a big debate, even within blind advocacy groups, of whether or not the US. Should go to the trouble of putting any kind of tactile interest rate on their currency, or should blind people just make do? But I'm giving you a gift. Chuck. Oh, no. What? I went on to Amazon and I found this thing called the Pocket Brailler, and it hooks on your keychain, and it has 12345 it has six little notches, okay? And you put the corner of your paper currency into the appropriate notch. So if it's a one, you put it in the one notch, and you press down and you can actually emboss. You can brail your currency. That's a great idea. Not for yourself, but if a blind person ever comes in contact with it, they have it already, broiled for them. So if everyone got these and did this to the dollars that flow their way, eventually we could have enough money out there where we've done it ourselves. Yeah. I mean, think about it. Every time you came in contact with a piece of paper currency, you marked it, forgot about it, got back into circulation. That kind of gets around. You know what I say to that? What? Put up. Nice. So I'm going on to Amazon. It's actually from a site called Maxi Aid, which is a very unfortunate name for a website, but they sell the Pocket Brailler for $6.79, and I'm getting you one, buddy. Really? I'm getting myself one, too. That's pretty cool. All right, well, if everyone else out there got them, then maybe we could make a real difference in this world. I agree. Of course, the blind people would have to know that this movement is going on. Not necessarily. I think that and trust that they were marked correctly. Well, that's the kind of thing I'm sure there's a jerk out there who will do it the opposite way. Right. Anyway, threefold. Remember the witches rule of three, right? Come back on your head three times, buddy. If you want to read more about braille, you can type that word B-R-A-I-L-L-E into the handysearchbar@houseupworks.com. Which leads us, of course, to listener mail. Yes, Josh. Anyone out there who listens to this much of the show and listens to listen to mail, all eight of you, they know two things. We love email from our young friends. Yes. And we love email and broken English. And we love free stuff. And this is both, actually. Not all three. This is not free stuff. I'm going to call this Broken English the cutest recent immigrant in the United States. That's great. And of course, as we always like to see away and say, we're not making fun of anyone. No, we're doing a great job of writing in English, and we just think it's a good time. Hello, Josh and Chuck from the podcast. I am 14 years of age, and I enjoy to listen to the podcast plenty. Good start. I write this on Friends email. Due to the fact that I myself do not have email. I write another before, but is not certain if it arrived to the dwelling of you. So I write again. I love the podcast and the joke you say make. I laughing so hard. That's good. So she thinks you're funny. Yeah. I try hard on English but it's still no good. Josh and Chuck have plenty and I find I learned new things every one of the days. That is awesome. So she's learning things all the time from us. Her parents should probably be afraid. Probably. So I come to Canada from China and like to live here every day. Here is joyous and all people are happy and also kind. That's about right for Canada. She must be in Vancouver. Yeah. My mother jokes that I am too much in interest with podcast and said she is wondering if I am in love with podcast Josh. I respond with wholehearted no and declare him to married and he's much too old for my young and small age 14. Very true. That is a good girl. Josh is not married though we should say. I listened to old podcast with Chris and I'm wondering why Chris does Josh work? Is Chris slave? Slavery not accepted in Canada. Neither should in USA. Agreed? Agreed. I love to hear you and good day to you. I try hard to write this and I'm hoping happiness and health for you. From your fan number one Lucy. Goodbye. No use slave Lucymore. I am not married. I am very much taken. But I got to tell you, if I weren't, I would wait for you. You sound like a very she is quite a charmer, passionate, charming young lady. Yeah. And welcome to Canada. Can I speak for Canadians? I guess. Welcome to Canada. We do here in the US anyway. And thanks for listening. Lucy. It's really very cute. Great. So if you have a super heartbreakingly cute email that you want to send us, you know we like those a lot. We're suckers for them. You just wrap it up, send it along to stuffpodcast@howstuffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseofworks.com. Want more housetofworks? Check out our blog on the Houseofworks.com Homepage Reinvented 2012 camry. It's ready. Are you?" | ||
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/netstorage.discovery.com/DMC-FEEDS/MED/podcasts/2009/1233004431505hsw-sysk-coma.mp3 | How Comas Work | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-comas-work | Several conditions can cause comas, including brain tumors and overdoses. Tune in as the crew discusses the causes and treatments of comas -- including some miraculous recoveries -- in this HowStuffWorks podcast. | Several conditions can cause comas, including brain tumors and overdoses. Tune in as the crew discusses the causes and treatments of comas -- including some miraculous recoveries -- in this HowStuffWorks podcast. | Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2009, tm_mon=1, tm_mday=27, tm_hour=13, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=27, tm_isdst=0) | 23733460 | audio/mpeg | "Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know from housetopworkscom. This episode is sponsored by GoDaddy.com, the world's largest web host and domain name registration registrar, with domains as low as one dollars 99 and hosting for less than $5 a month. Enter promo code stuff Ten at checkout and save 10% off your entire order. Get your piece of the Internet@godaddy.com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. I'm Chuck. The red light is on. Do we have one of those? No, we need one now. Yeah, we totally do. It's usually just we hear our producer Jerry pressing a button, right? And then we know to go. We just start talking like talking monkeys. It's like the German train system. It's very efficient. Yes, it is. Chuck. Chuck, as you know, it's been an altogether rotten day so far, right? Yeah. Hasn't been our best. And what is it, like, 330 in the afternoon? Yeah. Yes. Okay. So luckily, it will be over soon enough. Yes. And it's Friday. I'm even worse than I was before, because rather than getting my usual fresca, I got a Diet Cherry Coke by accident. And all respect to the Coca Cola Company, they've done really well for themselves, but Diet Cherry Coke is atrocious. I like that you're suffering through it. Anyway, rather than I opened it, I've got to make do. But honorable. As bad as our day has been, right? Yeah. I can tell you somebody whose day was even worse. Who's that? How's that? First segue? That's good. I actually just set up the set up for the podcast. What do you think? You're blowing my mind. There's this woman named Patricia Whiteball, and she was a Coachiti Indian from outside of Albuquerque, New Mexico. And back when she was a lovely young 28, she was giving birth to her fourth child, son named Mark, and she was giving birth via C section. And there were complications in the surgery. And Mrs. Whitebowl developed a blood clot in her lung, and it actually cut off oxygen to her brain, and she lapsed into a coma. Wow. Okay. So comas actually happen. They can happen fairly frequently. They're not uncommon. Right. But Mrs. Whitebowl's type of coma actually is very rare. She was in a coma for 16 years. Holy cow. That's a long time to be in a coma. It is. So there are other people out there like her. Have you heard of sunny von Bulo? Reversal of fortune? Sure. Yeah. So she's been in a coma for 19 years. Really? And a couple years back, actually, she was moved from this very, very expensive care facility to a slightly less expensive one. It was estimated that her family was spending about half a million dollars on her care, as well as hairstylists and tears and stuff like that. Finally had to say, we got to move you, Mall. Right. Was she in the coma from the attempted murder. Yes. Really? Allegedly. By her husband claus Farm Bureau, who recently passed away. Correct. Actually, it was she who passed away. Okay. She did. And this is actually kind of common. I'm not sure how she passed away, but people in comas sometimes pass away from pneumonia or something like that. Their body is not functioning very well. They can succumb to things like that. Well, apologies for not being up on my Von Bulow history. Hey, same here. Palate is okay. Things move pretty fast in this crazy world of ours. So back to Mrs. Whitebol. While Mrs. Von Bulo never woke up, mrs. White bowl actually did after 16 years. This is amazing. This is exceedingly rare. Wow. Rare than a 16 plus year coma is waking up from a 16 plus year coma? Basically, she woke up one day while one of her caregivers was adjusting the sheets on her bed. Really? And she lifted her head and shouted, don't do that. And scared, I imagine, the daylights out of this woman. Oh, yeah. And after that, she was writing notes to her family. She called her mother to say Merry Christmas. This happened in December 1999. Jeez. And within like a month, she was at a mall. She wanted to see how the world had changed, so she went to a mall. She went to a mall. It's actually a pretty good place to start. Yeah, you're right. Because, I mean, back when she fell into a coma, reagan had just started his second term. Right. Think about how much the world changed between 1984 and 1999. Right. No kidding. And she woke up just in time to get nervous for y two K. Yeah. Good timing. Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. Isn't that? It's kind of an uplifting story. We could end it right here. And I would be happy, probably. I would, too, actually, but we're not so you want to talk about combat? I think so. I take it from that solicitation? Yes. All right, well, Chuck, let me start. Okay. Because I haven't spoken enough so far. I agree. I'm just going to kick it off with coma. Comes from the Greek word coma, appropriately enough. Right. With a K. With a K. That's the big distinction. And that word is to sleep in the Greek dialect. And that's actually pretty misleading, isn't it? It is, because when you're asleep, you can wake up. And if you're in a coma, you're not waking up. You don't respond to stimuli like sight or motor function, stuff like that. Yeah. You can sit there and shot all day at a coma patient. They're not waking up. Right. They also don't respond to pain stimuli. True. They're just basically out. Right. But the brain functions, part of it does. Right, okay. So we should probably talk about the brain. To understand the coma, you kind of have to have a minor understanding of the brain, right? Major understanding. Major understanding. Exactly. So we've got basically three parts that work to make us these talking monkeys that we are. Right. You got the cerebrum, cerebellum and the brain stem, and they communicate with one another. So your cerebrum, that's your higher brain yeah. That controls things like emotion, memory, intelligence, personality, reason, learning, context. Yeah. It's what most people think of when they think of the brain and all that good stuff in there. Right. It's the largest part too. And then you've got the cerebellum, which is in charge of balance of movement. Right. Also very important. And then the most ancient part of the brain, evolutionarily speaking, is the brain stem. Right. This is like the basic part of the brain that controls like, breathing, blood pressure, bowel movements, actually. Yeah. Body function. Exactly. So you put all these together and you've got us intelligent reasoning, pooping, human. Yeah. Wrap a skull around it and some skin and you've got a human. Exactly. And all these things have to kind of communicate with one another and they do so through the thalamus and they send chemical signals to one another that makes your lungs inflate and deflate and makes you think, this person is making fun of me or they're after me or something. Right. All this stuff combined, as you said, makes us this way. If they stop talking to one another, you got yourself an altered state of consciousness. Exactly. And there's quite a few of those. Yeah. You want to talk about some of the other altered states? Well, yeah, there's a vegetative state that a lot of people get confused with coma. It's not exactly the same thing. Vegetative state is actually a type of coma, but you're generally awake but unresponsive. So your eyes can be open, but you're still unresponsive. It is generally confused with coma because it usually comes after coma. Correct. These people like Mrs. White bowl and Mrs. Von Bulow, who are in comas for tens of years, were in a vegetative state after X amount of time. Right. So if you're in a coma and you go into a vegetative state, you're probably in a lot of trouble. You're probably not going to come out of it. Right. Some part of your brain stem responds to stimuli like maybe a sound. So all of a sudden your eyes, which are no longer coordinated, so they're kind of lolling around, but both in the same direction toward the sound, but there's no awareness of it. You're not using any of your higher brain function to figure out what the sound is. It's just like a basic response. Right. Your eyes can move. I believe there could be like yawning, even you can yawn, blinking, that kind of thing. Blinking. And the r1 hallmark of a vegetative state is people in it have sleep cycles. During the day they're dirty or still during the day, they will blink or their eyes will lull about in their head or they'll turn their head towards something and then at night, they're not doing that. They're sleeping. Sure. In a coma, you just appear to be sleeping the whole time. Exactly. So that's one there's another one that is one of my particular favorite altered states of consciousness, stupor. That actually scared me. Okay. Apparently, if you are whacked out of your skull on drugs and you're in a stupor, you're like one or two steps away from comas host. Yeah. It's all the same process is going on just, I guess, to a slightly different degree. Right. But that's alarming. Yes, it is. So watch out, buddy. I'm watching out. But I distracted you. I know which one you are going to talk about. You just like to say stupid. I do. The one I like the most is locked in syndrome. Yeah. I can't believe I just said that. The one I like the most. The one you find most fascinating. Thank you, Chuck. Locked in syndrome is basically where you can move or you can't move. You're totally aware, though, your higher brain is functioning. Exactly. You are literally locked into your body. And basically the only thing you can move are your eyes, typically. Right. And that's like Jean Dominique Bobby from The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. Right. Which is a great movie. We were just talking with Jerry, our producer, beforehand. We've both seen the film. It's really great. But you have not because you're too busy watching Magna Pi. Quite you yeah, I know enough about the story. When it came out, I listened to NPR and they talked about that like seven days in a row. I think it's really good. But the guy, because he could move his eyes, he had a computer software system that he could type with it. Yeah. And he wrote a book in this locked in state. Yeah. Right. And he typed every single letter of this book by looking at the by choosing, like, a keyboard. Right. Or from a computer screen keyboard. I believe that's what happened. That's nuts. But, I mean, imagine that. Imagine being locked in I know. And knowing exactly what was going on. I know. Very frustrating. I imagine it's very much like the Metallica video one, except that guy could move. Right. Which was from the film. Johnny got his gun, I think. Thank you. Wow. Very nice. My fountain of film knowledge today. So those are a couple of other altered states of consciousness, in case you're interested. If not, you should have fast forwarded to the last minute and a half, maybe two. And we're back to coma again. Okay, so somebody falls into a coma. How does this happen? What are some of the ways you can become coma toes? Well, there's a bunch of ways. One way is from brain injury. Obviously, if you have severe head trauma, you can get an impact that actually makes your brain move within your skull. And I know that if your brain actually hits your skull. That's what a concussion is, correct? I believe so. But something more severe than that can cause blood vessels and nerve fibers to swell up, and that can potentially cut off the flow of blood and therefore oxygen to the brain. And that's when you're in trouble. You want your skull to be stationary at all times? Yes. Or you want your brain to be stationary at all times in your skull. Yes. It's just not good when it slaps around in there. No, it's not. So you can also become comatose if you have diabetes. Right. Diabetes. Certain diseases, like meningitis can make it happen. Drug overdose can make it happen. Yeah. Although I believe you told me they don't even know exactly how that happens. I don't know how it happens. I couldn't find out what leads to it. The way I took it was that it slows your response. Maybe it slows the oxygen to your brain or the flow of oxygen to your brain, or it just relaxes muscles that need to be working. I don't know. Literally off the top of my head. Right. I sent a neurosurgeon email in the near future to close up for us. Yeah. But yeah. There are plenty of ways that you can slip into a coma. And actually, you can slip into a coma. You can go through stages of altered consciousness right. And then end up comatose, which is the grandaddy worst one of all. Although, I don't know, lockdown is probably worse. Right. But it can happen gradually. That's a good point. Or it can happen very quickly, like through a major concussion, through a car accident or something like that. If you slipped into a diabetic coma, that would happen gradually, usually. Right, exactly. You might get feverish and dizzy and lethargic, and then all of a sudden you're in a coma, which is frightening. It is. Do you have diabetes? No. Me neither. I might one day, though. I think my father got it later in his life. Is it genetic? I don't know. I sent another letter from a person with typing to clear that up. At this point, we could just start asking questions. We should do like, a 20 minutes reader mail segment, just correcting ourselves every time. It's a good idea. All right. So what do you do if you're in a coma? I mean let me just say one thing real quick. After researching comas, you know how when you have a heart attack, your heart actually isn't stopped? It's gone out of its rhythmic beat. Sure. So when you are zapped, when they hit you with the paddles, what they're doing is actually stopping your heart to give it a chance to restart. Right. With a coma, it seems like the pattern of discussion between the different parts of your brain that make you conscious and aware it's been interrupted. But we don't know how to zap it back into place. Exactly. That's a good way to say it, but you still have to care for these people. Exactly. You can't just say, well, we don't really know how to do anything to make you better. Right. There are some ways. Drug overdose, if you sustain someone's life processes, they can come out after the drug begins to wear off, or same with alcohol poisoning, diabetic coma that can be treated. Yeah. But once, say, like, from a major brain injury, you may be in big trouble. Right. Or stroke. Sure. I think the first thing that has to happen is the doctor has to determine whether or not you're actually in a coma. That's the first step. Yeah. How do they do that? Well, there's a couple of scales they use to determine your level of alertness, and one is from Glasgow. It's called the Glasgow Coma Scale. Oh, is that how it said that? There's no accent associated with it. I'm not going to try my Scottish accent. And then there's the Rancho Los Amigos scale. No, I'm not going to do that either. All right. We're going to remain respectful in this one. And basically, the doctors use these two scales, and there's varying tests of responsiveness with your eyes, verbal responses, motor responses to various stimuli. And so they do this to determine they use both of these scales, actually, to basically gauge how alert you are and whether or not you're in fact in a coma. So is it like they just clap loudly next to your ears and command you to sit up or something like that? I would say so. Do your eyes open when someone speaks to you? Do your eyes open when there's pain involved? So there's all kinds of little ways that they can check. Yeah. I guess they want to determine whether you're in a coma or whether you're just resting your eyes or playing possum because of what comes after that. Right. Well, they assign you a score in a range from three to 15, three being a very deep coma and 15 being less right now, right? Yeah, I'm about 14, but yeah. All right. So we've established you're in a coma. It's awful. You're three. Right. All right. So you are just completely dead to the world, but you're still alive, amazingly. Right. That would be comatose and unresponsive as the official classification of that deep of a coma. Okay, so you're in there if you're in a car injury, what they're going to do? They're going to triage your symptoms problems. Right. So if you're in a car wreck or something, you have injuries from that, they're going to control the bleeding, that kind of thing. Yeah. They want to stabilize everything else first. Right. Not first, but once you're stable, though, and you're still in a coma, you can't care for yourself any longer. So it's kind of like they're going to poke around to determine what the cause is. Maybe they're using EEG electroencephalography right. Or MRI or fMRI, which is basically an MRI for the brain or CT scan, which is computed tomography. Right. Now, they'll use all these things to basically either look inside an EEG, actually, is basically kind of like hooking into your electrical system and checking out how the impulses are doing. Right. And they'll diagnose maybe what caused the coma, that kind of thing. So once you're stabilized, diagnosed in a coma, you've been given the scale rating and you're in for the long haul, clearly. Right. You're stable. Yeah. They're going to basically use machines to care for you, like feeding tubes. Right. Oftentimes somebody in a prolonged coma or vegetative state, they'll perform a tracheotomy. Sure. So they don't have to innovate you. Because after a while, the innovation, too, I imagine, gets really uncomfortable. Right. Actually, so much so that you would prefer a hold of the throat. Right. Yeah. It's a little aside. One of my best friends, a guy named Jen's Beatty, in 6th grade, his mom started choking in a restaurant and actually had an emergency tracheotomy with a steak knife and a pen reformed on it. There was a doctor there who did it, and he just went, Holy cow, she was breathing again. That's the worst case scenario right there. She used to have this little scar. I'm sure she still does, but it was crazy. Only person I ever knew who had an emergency trace. I thought that was something just you get on the Er house or something. Exactly. Yeah. It happens. It happens. So, back to comas. Another thing that is often done is physical therapy. Just to keep the muscles moving. The nurses will move the patient to prevent bed sores and then move the muscles, flex the legs to keep atrophy from setting in. Right. Or if you're lumberman, you can do a really focused regime right. Within an eight hour period and you'll be walking again. Right. True. Yeah. So how we need to bring this down a little bit, don't we? I think so, yeah. Because researching it when you really get a grasp on comas and the peculiar nature of them, and just the fact that we have no way to bring somebody out of a coma. Right. It's kind of heartbreaking to think that there are families out there who go to the hospital every day or every week, and you hope because there's people like Patricia Whiteboard who set up all of a sudden, and there you have it. Somebody can come out of a long comb. That's rough. True. I've got a study for you that might encourage you a bit. I'd love to hear it. It's from 2006. It's from Dr. Adrian Owen of Cambridge University and Neuroscientist, and he's trying to determine a consciousness meter for people in comas and vegetative states. So what he does is he hooks a normal, healthy person up to an fMRI machine, which I know you understand how that works, right? Well, basically, it uses magnetic imaging to see through the skull, and basically it's watching the brain and watching the electrical activity in the brain. Okay, so if the prefrontal cortex lights up when somebody sees a bunny, you'll know that the prefrontal cortex is involved in taking cuteness into context or something. Well, I'm impressed. Okay, so he'll hook up a healthy person and then someone in a coma or vegetative state and ask them to do something like imagine playing a game of tennis, I believe is what he is on this one woman. And he found that the brain activity was really similar for both of these people, which led him to believe that there may be a lot more brain activity going on in some of these different states of mind. Yeah, that pretty much flatly contradicts our understanding of vegetative states. True. But also this was one person, I believe, that it was successful in, and I'm sure there's been subsequent studies since, but he himself said that we need to keep studying this kind of thing before we make any determination. Yeah, we need to basically figure out how to bring people out of coma. Right. But it does happen. You can come out of a coma. No, you totally can. You can't bring someone out of a coma. But I think they said that 87% who score three or four on the scale within the first 24 hours are likely to either die or remain in the vegetative state. So that's no good. But on the other side, 87% who score between eleven and 15 are likely to make a good recovery. Well, it makes sense. I mean, if you can shake somebody's hand when they tell you to, right. You're probably going to make it. But apparently it's the first 24 hours are really telling. Yeah, I would imagine so. That's coma. That's my understanding of coma. The great medical mystery that still remains. It solved one day, maybe. Hope so. All right, chilling. Chuck, you want to do listener mail? Yeah, let's do listener mail. And I'm starting to separate listener mail into different categories, like the cream from the rest of the crop, as it was exactly. The men from the boys. Well, just more like a good way. The women from the girls. Shut it. So, first of all, we decided to change this one part to Stuff We Should Know. This is instead of corrections, a lot of times they're not an actual correction, but something a listener has added that we did not realize for stuff we should have known. Stuff. We should have known. We can call it that, but that actually came from brian Smith of California suggested we call it that. Yeah, we are actively following our listeners commands at this point. So, Brian, we appreciate the title there, and we're going to use that now. So something we did miss in the body armor episode, we talked about a lot of kinds of body armor, which was good, but we failed to mention one new, very awesome one called Dragon Skin Armor. And apparently these are little, small, overlapping ceramic discs, sort of like the medieval scale mail. And it's just a modern version, essentially, and it's more effective from repeated hits from a bullet. So quite a few people sent this in. Michael Shivetz, retired naval officer oh, I don't know about officer, but retired US. Navy Reno or Renee Moreno from Brooklyn and Devon Montes in California. And I'm sure we missed a few others. Yeah, we actually got a lot of mail about the dragon scales. I say I find it comforting to know that we're advancing light years now. Right. And I have one more quick one, and this is a proposal to our topic today of comas. John Mull. Queen is a doctor in Massachusetts. And John ran in and said, I thought it would never happen, but I heard a mistake on Stuff You Should Know exorcism apparently, you said this is not me. You said that someone with epilepsy, you could throw somebody in an MRI machine and look at the parts of the brain and see that someone is epileptic. And John says that actually you would not see epilepsy in an MRI seizures or diagnosed with an EEG machine, which is what we just spoke about. Got you. I appreciate the correction. Yeah. Thank you. Is he from Farmington? Framingham. No, he's from Gardner, Mass. Well, to all of our listeners who sent mail and you, too, can send mail. You can send it to stuffpodcast@howstoughfworks.com. I got to tell you, there's plenty more information on comas and the great article on the site called How Comas Work? Just type those three little words into our handy search bar and, of course, how'soutworths. Com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit houseoffworks.com. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you?" | |
42ae656e-53a3-11e8-bdec-b7350357a1eb | What's a gap year anyway? | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/whats-a-gap-year-anyway | Chuck thought a gap year was post college. Turns out, it's a post high school year off from academics, where you travel the world, help others, and find yourself. Should you do it? We say "yes!" If you can afford it that is. | Chuck thought a gap year was post college. Turns out, it's a post high school year off from academics, where you travel the world, help others, and find yourself. Should you do it? We say "yes!" If you can afford it that is. | Thu, 05 Dec 2019 12:18:05 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2019, tm_mon=12, tm_mday=5, tm_hour=12, tm_min=18, tm_sec=5, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=339, tm_isdst=0) | 49495639 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, San Francisco. Hey, Seattle. Come see us because we're gonna be there January 18 and 16th. That's right, we're going backwards in time. We'll be at the More on the 16th in Seattle. You'll be at the Castro on the 18th. And San Francisco. It's part of Sketchfest and as as always, you can check out ticket links and get all the info you need at our touring home on the web. Thanks to Squarespace@sysclivecom fouyer welcome to Stuff. You should know a production of Iheartradios how Stuff works. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W, Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there, miso free since 93, which is not true at all, but it does rhyme, so it's catchy. It could be maybe miso three since 03:00 yesterday afternoon, maybe. No, that doesn't count because she still got a little honking her teeth. Oh, God. So, Chuck yes. We are gathered here today to discuss probably the most important topic we've ever covered, the most hard hitting, timely topic that we've ever taken on. And I'm not sure if we're up to the task, but we're going to give it a try. And what we're talking about today are gap years. Yeah. Did this remind you to the old days of stuff you should know? Yeah, a little bit. Hopefully not the new current days of stuff. You should know when the occasional topic would come along that's flight. And we do it anyway. Yeah. Because as everyone knows, but we haven't set it for a while, we are dedicated to explaining absolutely everything in the universe, and that includes captures. This is the thing. And I should also point out to the reason I picked this. It's not a turkey. Thanksgiving on the brain, but it's not a turkey. No, that's good. The reason I picked this was because when I was a teenager, I had never heard of a gap year. And up until very recently, I had heard the term and thought it meant taking a year off after college before you go into the workforce. Yeah. I did not know high school. You could totally do that if you want to completely ruin your life. Oh, shoot. I didn't enter the workforce. I was in my 30s. No, it's true. I had jobs. Right. Yeah. No, it's a gap year, from what I understand is, like you said, it's taking a year off between high school and college to do things like find yourself, to make yourself a more creative person, to see the world, to immerse yourself in other cultures. Maybe volunteer. Yeah, volunteering is a big one. But the crux of it is that you are becoming a more mature person during this year between high school and college. Almost like it's a rite of passage. And that when you're done with this year and you go to enter college, you're much stabler. You've worked on things like grit and resilience, and you're a much wiser person than you would have been had you just hop from high school off to college. That's the idealized version of it, yes, that's the idea. Like I said, I did not know this was an option to me. And maybe that's because I'm an American, like you. Yeah, it's gaining some traction in America, but it is certainly not we're not gap year heavy here in the States. It seems to be very popular in Europe, especially among the Brits, and then especially among the Aussies. They like to take a year off and go see the world and do stuff and kind of decide what they want to do in college. Yeah, and, I mean, it's been around for a little while, but it really did just kind of stick to the UK and then Australia, and even still today, I'm sure there's plenty of people who have no idea what a gap year is who are listening to this. I know you didn't do it, but did you know this was a thing? No, I didn't. I think in the United States it does happen more than we realize, but people don't call it a gap year, and it's not necessarily intentional. Did you take a gap year? No, I didn't. You went right to college. Yes, I did, and I just kind of worked my way through. And over time, actually going from college to college, I actually kind of became a much better student than I was had. I just followed, like, a traditional path. Oh, yeah. Where you just go from one high school to your college of choice. I guess I had some of the benefits of a gap year, but I didn't just take a year off and travel or even work or anything. You took a year off while you're in school? Right. I'm like Van Wilder and Fairs. Bueller rolled into one. I will say this, I've talked about it before. It took me six years to complete my degree at Georgia, and the first three of those years, I was completely up to date. And then it took me three more years to get that final year. Well, yeah. What was it that stretched it out? I just tapped the brakes, man. I was having a good time. And I dropped my first classes, like my junior year. I was like, man, that feels good to go to a class once and be like, no, you know what? I'm not going to come back. After I did that. A couple of times, I felt, and I was paying my own way at this point. My parents helped me out the first couple of years, and then I kind of just worked my way through. Good for you. But I was like, I'm going to do it Chuck style, and I'm just going to slow my role. And I love Athens, and my friends are all here, so I'm just going to take maybe a class, a quarter, maybe two and it takes me how long it's going to take me how long it takes me so that song, Don't Go Back to Rockdale, like, really spoke to you? Don't go back to Rockville. Well, no, it was originally Rockdale. Yeah, it was a Michael Stipe song, maybe, or he had something to do with it and they were talking about, like, conyers. Oh, really? I did not know that. The reason I also said Rockdale is because I couldn't remember what they ended up naming the song. Right. But it really was originally Rockdale. I believe you. Yeah. Rockdale County Square. So you use the Spicoli method of graduating your senior year? Yeah, we're Gen Xers, so we very famously, as a generation, weren't, like, chomping to jump into the corporate workforce when we were 22 years old. Right. We were way too cynical for that. No, man, I had no aims to get a real job anytime soon. No. And did you have friends? Because I certainly did. Who, man, hit that track. Or in business school, had their major completed in, like, three and a half years, maybe, went on to get their MBA and were miserable by age 22. Well, I knew people I wouldn't say my close friends because my close friends are all sort of in my boat, which is to say the slow steamer paddleboat the Koi method at the end of the race. Yeah. But I knew of people who did that, and some of them got jobs, like, real jobs, at 23 years old. And I don't know, it seemed so weird to me at the time, but now that's sort of what it seems like most people are trying to do. No, and it's true. And I remember all of those people are the ones who've had 401 KS for, like, 15 years longer than you and I have. Yeah, good point. But they also, if I remember correctly, were to a person, miserable, at least at some point, immediately post college. They were not happy people. And a lot of that reason is because you get burnout. And I was researching burnout, and it's definitely a thing, it's its own thing, but I couldn't find any studies on what was actually going on neurologically or biologically. So it can't be its own show. No, I was kind of hoping, but it is treated as a real thing. School Burnout Study burnout. There's this idea that if you just kind of hit the books too hard for too prolonged the time, you develop a mental and even physical and emotional fatigue to where your stress levels, just as such a high pitch that basically your baseline is raised and you're cognitively affected, perhaps you develop a diagnosable mental health disorder. I read that something like a third of students entering college in some poll taken in the last few years had considered suicide and that they had diagnosable mental health conditions, and they attribute this to burnout. And so that is one of the big marks in the favor of taking a gap year is this idea that you can cut that cord straight from high school to college and then into the workforce and just take some me time and do something different and really explore yourself in the world. And in doing so, you'll kind of recharge your batteries and you can hit college with a fresh start rather than grinding it out from high school straight into college. Yeah. And I also should add this. Back when we were in high school and applying to colleges, it was a different deal. I didn't have to work very hard in high school to get A's and B's, my high school, it was a good public high school, but it was not that challenging. Is that the social experiment, high school? No. Okay. It was just a regular high school. But do you remember, didn't you have, like, no walls and just up high? Yeah. Did you see all those people who wrote in and said, josh is right, this is like an actual experiment that was done in the 70s. Well, maybe they'll publish the findings because it was a secret experiment. If it was one. Okay. But it just wasn't that hard. And so I was never burnt out and felt like, boy, I could use some time off. And then getting into college was a lot easier back then, too. Yeah. Before the Hope Scholarship. Yeah. It was not nearly as competitive, even for state schools. And there are high schools, though, that are really tough now, public high schools. Roswell high School here in the suburbs is notorious for being really hard and competitive, and, like, there are 17 year old kids suffering from academic burnout because it's such a challenging environment. And then trying to get into the schools. I have a 40, and it's not good enough. And it's like, are you kidding me? It's like a 40. In our days, you kind of write your ticket. Oh, yeah. You go to Harvard, Yale, princeton. You had your pick, basically. But all that is to say that I get the benefits, for sure, of a gap here these days. Yeah. Because I think what you're saying is that things have changed since we were in high school or college. Yes. Yes. And I guess it's the whole rise of helicopter parenting, where kids are just like, it's not good enough to have good grades. You have to have a well rounded resume by the time you are trying to get to college. And kids are probably way more burned out today than they were back in our day. Back in our day, if you were burnt out, it meant you smoked a lot of pot. Right. So there is a gap year. There is such a thing. And like you said, it's kind of popular in Britain. There was a little lull in 2011, I think, between 2011 and 14, where it dropped significantly which we'll talk about later, but it steadied again, and it seems to be a rite of passage among British high school kids that's here to stay. It's kind of a thing. Not everyone does it. In fact, not even close to the majority does it, but a significant amount in the United States, it's far less. It's something like 11% in Britain compared to 1.2% in the United States. That was back in 2011. Yes. These are sort of old, but I bet it's not too different now. Right? Yeah. And the reason why is I think it's kind of rooted in that American mentality of, like, can you really afford to take a year off? Even if you can afford it financially? What are you doing to your future? And that's something that people have really started to explore, especially since Malia Obama took a gap year, famously, back in, I think, 2016. It really kind of called the idea to the attention of Americans more than it had been before. Yeah. She did it through a program. And we'll talk a bit about this. There's a couple of ways you can do it. You can wing it and do your own thing, or you can actually sign up for a program that will set you up for your gap year. She used one called Where There Be Dragons. It's pretty great, the actual name. And she went to Peru and Bolivia and at one point interned, sort of, unfortunately, the Weinstein Company pre scandal. Right. But she brought a lot of attention to the idea of taking a gap year yes. And then went to Harvard because it's not like she was slouching. And that's sort of the point, is a gap year. It doesn't mean you're slouching. It means you're probably more of a go getter than somebody who might just go straight into public university. Right, exactly. That there's this whole kind of veneer to it. This idea that you're so good at this. You can take a year off and go see the world and really get an idea of how the other half lives before coming in to get your education. In the hopes that your education will now be based on a foundation of understanding and awareness rather than. Like. Entitlement. So that after you do graduate. You can take everything you learned and use your powers for good. Like Spiderman. Yeah. Do you want to take a break? Yeah, let's take a break, and then we'll come back and talk about where all this laziness started in the 1960s. All right, Chuck. So it's kind of appropriate that the gap year started in the was the don't really need to say anything more than that. Yeah. In the United States, our conception of the 60s is pretty close to what happened in the 60s in Great Britain, where the gap year kind of began and there was already this kind of desire for more and for meaning and spirituality among Western kids that really kind of dates back to the Beat generation who really kind of laid this path. But there wasn't anything like a gap year at the time. And even in the 60s, when people started setting up these programs that would become the foundations of what would become the gap year, they still didn't call it a gap year. It was more like a year of giving back, of seeing the world, all the stuff that you would do on a gap year today. They kind of came along in separate little instances that eventually kind of coalesced into this formalized procedure of taking a gap year. Yeah. And it seems like and we got some of this stuff from there is a website called Gapier.com, if you want to know everything you need to know about gap year's. And it seems to have really kicked off in earnest, aside from just like sort of hippies going off to find themselves in India in the late sixty s and sixty seven, with a man named Nicholas McLean Bristol, who set up something called Project Trust, wherein he took some kids to Ethiopia. And to do exactly what you do at a gap year, which is to help people out there to learn about the country, to sort of devote yourself to them for a period of time, to learn about them and yourself and how to live independently and stuff like that. And after that, it seemed like the gap here was really sort of a thing. Yeah, well, they made it a thing, like they were the first ones to establish it. And then so that happened simultaneously too. Like you said, those hippies going to India to find themselves and following the hippie trail. And that was the thing that was significant. Like there were people who would go backpack from London to Catman Dew in some cases, or at least to go on the coast of India. They would go through Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan. They would like hitchhike through these places. And it was like a real experience to do something like this. So that was going on at the same time that a formal program that introduced the idea of taking a year off and going to volunteer was going on as well. And there was a guy who in the 1970s, I think 1973, his name was Graham Turner, his nickname was Screw, S-K-R-O-O for to spell that one out. Yeah. He bought a Doubledecker bus, like the famous London buses, and sold tickets on it and drove from London to Kathmandu following that hippie trail and really kind of spread the word that this is a thing. It was no longer just backpacking, you could take like a tour, an actual tour bus tour down this hippie trail. And he actually ended up founding two companies. One was top deck travel, which refers to that bus travel. And another one is flight center. And they were like the first hippie gap year travel companies that were ever established, which was another big deal to help kind of build this foundation for gap years. Yeah. And he was successful. He was in Aussie that was based out of London, but I think the first one was in 73 and by 1980 he had between 70 and 80 of these buses. Yeah, I saw that. So it really gained steam pretty fast because like you said, people are doing it anyway, and for someone to make it easier on you by formalizing it and saying, hey, we'll take you, just save up a little bit of money. And these were bus trips, so I imagine they were fairly affordable in the early eighty s. So it didn't cost a lot of money and it really made gap years kind of explode at the time. Yeah. And then so you've got all these kind of components revving out there doing their own thing. Another one that kind of came along and helped things was when Tony and Maureen Wheeler did like a trip to Asia Overland. They basically backpacked to Asia from, I think, London, and they made it to Australia, I believe, where they lived for a few years and got jobs and we're just kind of hanging out. But people they met in Australia kept bothering them for tips on how to do that same route to Asia. And they ended up putting everything together into a book called Asia on the Cheap. Across Asia on the cheap. Sorry. And they wrote it themselves. They published themselves. Tony took it to bookstores and said, hey, I've got this book, you guys want this? And people started buying it and it became the first title in the Lonely Planet series they ended up finding Lonely Planet. Yes. Which is I mean, if you're a kid who has put on a backpack, then you have probably seen some of the Lonely Planet titles in your travels. I never owned one. I think me and my buddy were let's Go, dudes. So there was another brand called let's Go Europe or whatever. Let's Go Costa Rica. Yeah. So we had let's Go Europe, but there were definitely Lonely Planet people in the hostels and we used to get into knife and chain fights with them over which was the better book series. Yeah, those are brutal fights stuff. That's another thing too, as all these people are kind of contributing these different pieces. Like this alternative travel industry is starting to develop, right where before if you wanted to go see the world, you really kind of had to pay like a tour operator or a travel agent or something like that. And now if you had the wherewithal to say, I don't want to do all that tourist stuff, I want to see the real world. There was this new kind of industry that was being generated in the late sixty s and early 70s, mid seventy s at the latest that would help you do that, like, on the cheap on your own. Like, you could buy a Lonely Planet book and follow the guide and just do it yourself. And all this stuff was new. And so as people started to kind of notice that I could go do this for a year and maybe a good time to do it would be after high school, this idea of a gap year really started to kind of develop. In 1977, there was a group called the Gap Activity Projects. I think it's called Latitude Global Volunteering now. And they kind of picked up where Project Trust led off, and I think Project Trust is still around, so I guess they would be competitors or colleagues or whatever, but where they basically organized tours for people who want to go volunteer, where you just say, there's where I want to go, and that's what I want to do. And they say, Perfect. We'll handle all of your visa applications. We'll handle all of your plane tickets. We will handle your itinerary on this day, you're going to go sightseeing. On this day, you're going to go help trap poachers on a safari. We'll handle all your money for you. Exactly. But we'll handle all this stuff for you. It's just give us some money. And that's really an important point that gets kind of overlooked. Like what this is is a sector of the travel industry, like a booming, thriving sector of the travel industry where other parts of the travel industry are in real trouble or were for a little while from things like expedia and things that let you do it yourself on the Internet. Yes, that's what it's called. The whole I had an aneurysm, and I thought the Internet was called expedia. I know there are still travel agents, but the Internet largely helped kill that industry, except for because I used to call a travel agent just to book a plane ticket a lot of times. But what I find hardening, Chuck, is the industry and others like it are still around. Like, there was a huge transition period where the Internet disrupted everything from magazines to travel industry, but it's stabilized. Like. A lot of people have had to go find other work. But there's still a lot of travel agents around. And they've figured out how to carve their own niche. And the industry has survived still because the Internet is not like a cold killer of industry left and right. It did not necessarily mean the death knell for all things great. But I think now travel agents are more likely to do for adults what they do for the gap year. Which is planned like an adventure for you and a little less like. Hey. I need to fly to Cleveland next week. What kind of flights you got? Yes, you're kind of a simpleton if you're buying something from a travel agent for that, how did they make their money I don't even remember I mean I used travel agent they had a vague that you had to pay. Yeah, I would guess it's kind of like built in or something here's what your package costs and they spent x number of dollars putting it all together and added like a ten or 20% mark up onto that and that's what you pay. I don't remember that's what I would guess those were the days, weren't they? I can't imagine anyone else booking my travel now like occasionally through work we'll have to do something and someone will offer to book travel for us and both of us are always like no you'll do it wrong. That is the wakes me up in a cold sweat is that someone has booked me like a window seat or something right? What about my sky mouth? Yeah, that too booked me in a window seat man I have a bladder the size of like a shell pee I have to sit in the aisle on an hour flight I'll get up like three times sometimes if I'm not careful yeah, that wasn't you the other day? No, that was someone else. Someone was asking me about maybe it was null got the old request to swap seats so they could sit together and I didn't do it and was feeling bad about it and I made them feel better about it. You know that's so funny Chuck I've got some boutar minehof going on because you and I had a conversation about that and I've seen on my Quora newsletter and then in other just random searches that has been coming up a lot lately like people want to know what to say if they don't want to do that. Yeah, I think his decision was very cut and dry. It was a boyfriend and a girlfriend that required Noel to move from the aisle to the center seat and I was like don't feel bad about that man like they can survive a two hour flight right? If it's mommy and little kid or like elderly couple or something like that that's something that I would definitely at least consider right but I just want to sit next to my sweetie for the next 90 minutes I'm like I'm sorry, we can't be apart. Yeah, you can be apart or you could take another flight, that's an option. Alright. Or you can stay home, I don't care nice about it but yeah I don't think in fact I told Noah, I said they're actually in the wrong for even asking you to do that a lot of people would argue that. A lot of people would argue that. I can see saying well this is an aisle for an aisle. Oh sure I would ask that but it's a light seat aisle for middle now the aisle seat is king, it's the ace, it's the trump card you can't just willy nilly ask for an aisle seat because no there are window people, though. Some people love the window. But what I know there are none of is there are no middle seat lovers. That is absolutely true. Yeah. So, well, jeez, man, should we take another break or press on? Well, maybe let's get through the 90s. Okay. Because the backpacking, the independent backpacker thing really came along in the much more so in the States. And that was when it was sort of the salad days of flying, because plane tickets got really cheap there for a while. Yes. And it was clearly not sustainable because you could fly for $200 a long way on a flight with, like, 19 other people. And I never had the business sense to look around and be like, something about this is not going to end well. And what happened was they realized they needed to fill up flights and they could charge a lot more and people would still fly. Right. But when flights were super cheap or they had stuff like air hitch, which is what I used to go to Europe. I don't know if they still have air hitch, but there are a lot of programs. You bought a coupon basically, what, for like, $150? That said, well, basically, you go to the airport on this day and we will put you on some flight to Europe. So it's tailor made for the backpacker. I don't really care where I start. Just get me over there. That's awesome, man. And so they had partner airlines, so you would buy a coupon, and then it was very exciting. You would go and you would show up at the airport not knowing where you were going to be that night. Yeah, that's pretty cool. It was very cool. And it always worked out not so great if you have a meeting in Munich that day. No, because it's really rolling the dice. But it was super cheap. I think it was like $300 round trip to Europe. Wow. Yes. Even in the 80s or early 90s, that was super cheap. You can't fly to Nashville for that now from Atlanta. No, try it. You can't do it. Can't do it. The 90s kind of saw a bit of an explosion, especially in the UK, because there was this now kind of structure that people could just kind of jump into and say, I'm taking a gap year. See you next year. And they could just choose what they wanted to do, and they could also find out what they needed to do. They could get information a lot more easily. Thanks to Gap year.com, that website that you cited earlier that was founded in 1998, and it's widely considered one of the first social media sites, and it's exclusively for people taking gap years, and it always has been, and it's still around, and they still give great advice on what to do during a gap year, how to do it, how to cut costs, what programs are good. What are it's just a good website. Yeah. So how about we talk about all that stuff after another break? Oh, okay. Alright, Chuck, another break has come and gone. Time to talk again about gap years. Yeah. So first of all, let's talk to parents of kids. If you're a parent and your kid is talking about taking a gap here, don't freak out. We get the inclination maybe to get nervous about what goes on during that year. Will my child ever come back? Are there any dangers, like real concerns? I'm not like, dismissing those concerns, but it's okay. Your kid most likely is going to come back enriched. And they've done studies that found that kids do better in that first year of college. A lot of them have. I think they zero in on their major more quickly after doing a gap year. Yeah. One thing I saw on that note, Chuck, was that there was a Wall Street Journal article about gap years and they profiled a woman who had gone to India to help bring solar power to a village and had lived in a tent for a few weeks and was like, I hate this more than anything I've ever hated before and I'm not doing this. And so she figured out during her gap year that she didn't want to do that, whereas if she had gone to college straight out of high school, she would have applied herself to that going through college and then gone and done that and found out that she hated it. So she said in that sense, this gap year saved her about 200 grand in four years. Interesting. By telling her what she didn't like. Exactly. Which is a really good point. I mean, mostly you learn what you do want to do or it helps you. I think there's some statistic that shows some high percentage of children who go on a gap year have their path forward reinforced from that gap year. But I'm sure there's a significant number of people are like, I don't want to help people. I'm a missing help. Another concern parents might have is there's so much focus on the resume for that college application and gap years look great on a resume now, colleges get it, and a lot of colleges, if you're accepted, can even defer your start by a year if you want to go on a gap year. So they really are trying to work hand in hand with high school students to say, get out there, volunteer, immerse yourself in a culture and come back and see us when you're 19 and you just don't want to funnel beer all the time because you're fresh out of the house. Right. And some colleges get it so much that, for example, Princeton not only has like a deferment program where you can say, I'm in, I'll see you in a year, I'm going to go take a year off. They say, well, wait we actually have a project or program that helps you go do that stuff for the cape and it's through the university and FSU, Florida State University has a program where if you defer for a gap year, you're automatically considered for financial aid to help you on your gap year. Oh, cool. Yeah, it is pretty cool. They also have a clown school, don't they? FSU does. Isn't Florida State don't they have like a circus college? I mean, it would make sense because Florida is like traditionally like the state where circuses went and took a rest for the oh, really? Yes. I didn't know that. Well, that makes sense. I wonder if I'm going to have to look that up. I know there's some kind of circus school in Florida, but it may not be tied to Florida State. It could be, though. It very well could be. So there's a book that a woman named Kristen White wrote called The Complete Guide to the Gap here where she talks about some of the things you can do that aren't just like partying around the world and volunteering is of course one of those things. As well as living with a family in another culture that's one of the best ways to really learn about a new place is to live with a host family. Can I also add on gapier.com, there was an opinion piece that said if you really want to live like a local, because that's a big buzz term for gap year people is learning to live like a local to really immerse yourself. They said get an international internship, like go work and you have to get up at a certain time. You have to get on the subway. You have to find like a favorite restaurant. You have to go grocery shopping. That's how you truly live like a local in your gap year to have responsibilities that the locals have. Then you can genuinely understand it. Plus, there's tons of other benefits too. Like you get paid, you make business contacts in other countries, which can be very valuable. They said that's the best way to do it. And as an American, I'm like, yes, I'll bet that is the best gap year they're working. Well, I mean, here's the thing. There are certainly plenty of programs where you can volunteer and do a service here and those are great, but you can also like it's not selfish if you're an artist and you want to go live in France and paint for a year and learn at the side of a mentor, all those things are great. Whatever you think is going to enrich you in your future is what you should concentrate on. Yeah, some people take a year off to learn an instrument or to write a novel. There's a lot of gap year programs that are geared towards things like helping the environment or helping science to where you might be doing surveys, underwater surveys of coral reefs to track, like, coral bleaching. Or like I said, there's some programs where you combat poachers by finding snares and undoing them and stuff like that. So there's a lot of training you can do where if, you know, like, you want to be an environmental scientist, you can actually go get field work to prepare you for your career down the road, or again, find out that you actually don't want to be an environmental scientist who has to do field work. So there's, like this benefit of not just going and spending a year in Ibiza and doing as much ecstasy as you can and stay alive before you go to college. That's how some people do it, I think. But the go getters are like, no, this is what I think I want to do. I'm going to go try it out first hand and then go learn how to do it in college and tell my professors how they're teaching it wrong because I've been there and done it and I have life experience and they don't. Yeah, and like we said, there's not a ton of studies, but we talked a little bit about some of the results. There are other surveys that said they say you're going to come back feeling very independent, more mature, you're going to have more motivation to learn and a stronger interest in school. I think the one you were talking about, 60% said their gap here confirmed their career path. Yeah. And then one study out of Australia said if you were a gapper, then you outperform your peers in that first semester of college and overall have better college grades. Yeah. Middlebury College in Vermont did a poll and found that their gap year students outperform non gap year students by 0.1 to 0.4 on a 4.0 scale, which is significant, especially 0.4, but even more significant that that effect lasted, like, all four years of college rather than just that first year. Right. And it might have been the same study, but there was that one combined with University of North Carolina that said it even helps the post graduate get a higher rate of job satisfaction. Right. So it kind of sets you up. It even said that in retirement you're happier. It said that when you die, your last words will invariably be, thank God I did a gap here. Here's the thing, though. It sounds like the perfect thing for everyone. I can see situations where if you are in a super tight knit senior class and a lot of those kids are going to the same college, you might really feel like you've been left behind a bit if they all go to State University and you're off in Ethiopia. So I get that. They also say in this article, from How Stuff Works.com, about maybe getting a little rusty study wise. I don't really buy that. I've seen that elsewhere, though. Really? Is that a thing? Yeah, it's like hey, you might be learning swahili and that's great, but you're probably not doing math at the same time, too. Yeah, I guess you can get a little rusty. I just remember at that age your brain is so plastic. No, it's true. Yeah. You pick it back up pretty quick, I would guess. Although there is that whole thing, the whole reason that they use for shortening or lengthening the school year and shortening summer is the idea that you lose so many of the things you've lost over a long summer. That's true. Yes. Imagine a year. There's also this whole scariness of like, competing in the job market. And can you really afford to delay entering the job market for a year? You can. Yeah, but I mean, that's a very American fear. Like, no, you're setting yourself back. You got to stay competitive. You got to stay in the game. You can't just take a year off and go find yourself. Who taught you that, you hippie? That's a real American thought. So there are fears among, say, parents of kids who want to take a gap year. There's also criticisms of the idea of a gap year in general from not even necessarily people who are involved in it just externally, people who say there is something wrong with this. This stinks of privilege, if you ask me. Yeah, I get that because they're generally not cheap. If you can afford to take a year off and do anything for a year where you're not getting paid, then there's got to be some privilege attached to that. Yeah, that's one. There's another charge of neocolonialism where there's this idea of Western kids finding themselves by dropping themselves temporarily in the destitute lives of other people around the world that they know they will leave in twelve months. Exactly. They could walk out that day and they'd be fine, but they get to take a few selfies with some underprivileged children in Africa and post them and change their profile picture. And what right do they have to go do that? That's a big one that gets levied against it. And that's a big point of debate because you can't just objectively say that that's correct or incorrect. And there are some elements of neocolonialism to it, and it can be done wrong. But people who defend the idea of gap years, especially volunteering on gap year, will say no. There are a lot of very ethical gap year tour companies that take that stuff into consideration and won't put you in that situation where if you're going to help, you're actually going to help. And there's this famous I think it was posted on HuffPost, a famous article called Little White Girls, Boys, and Volunteers. And the writer was a gap year student who basically was like, no, this is wrong. This isn't actually helping. The people who were helping with these community construction projects are having to go back and renail these two by fours because the people who are doing this are just teenagers who don't know what they're doing, who've never been trained to do this. So not only are we not helping, we're actually slowing things down. And apparently people who are the recipients of this aid from gap year programs don't feel like they're in a position to be like, thanks, but no thanks. Thanks for the garbage house, right. Thanks for your charity, but go to hell. They don't feel like they're in a position to say that. So there is this idea of Westerners pressing themselves on the lives temporarily of people who are in developing countries that don't even necessarily want the help, but could still use it or don't feel like that they're in a position to say no. Yeah. I mean, I would like to think for every kid that's there for the selfies, there's another kid who may go on to not even go back to college and make that their life's work. Yeah. I think it's probably a much higher ratio than that. I get the impression that the kids who actually go do the volunteering for gap year are actually starting to dip their toe into a career in an NGO where they will go on and help people. And they do take it very seriously. It's just the ethics among tour operators has changed and improved in the last couple of years, from what I understand. Yeah. And if you think that you want to pursue life working for a nonprofit and doing this kind of work, you should get out there and test the waters first before you make any big decisions. Because it's not for everyone and it's very emotionally challenging and physically challenging stuff. And spending a year doing it can either way, if it's confirming great. If it's confirming that this is not for you, then that's great as well. Right. And the author of The Little White Girls, Boys and Volunteerism, she said, stop and ask yourself a really important question. Will the project that you're working on be better off? Right. If you're there helping, yes. Will they benefit from your presence? Would they have trouble completing it without your help? And if the answer is yes, she says, then go for it. But if the answer is no, then maybe reconsider what you're doing or take the time to go learn that skill first so that you are actually helping. And the author's name is Pippa Biddle, which is maybe the most British name anyone's ever given their child. So if you are planning to do a gap year, take some time to really think about how you want to do it, because there are myriad ways and directions that you can go. Think about what you want to get accomplished, whether it's learning how to paint better or volunteering or helping the environment and then apply to college. You don't want to put that off. You want to go ahead and apply to college a, you know, where you want to go when you get back and be like we were talking about, they might have programs in place that can really help you out and really get structured about what you want to do. And if there's high school kids listening, like, this is especially important. If you want to sell your parents on this idea, don't just throw it out at the dinner table one night. Hey, what do you think about a year off? Come with a plan in place. And that is the stuff that will impress your parents. Right, exactly. Because you can plan your own gap year, but whether you take a planned tour, a pre planned tour, or plan it yourself, there does have to be structure. Else, again, you end up in a Visa for a year. Or some people apparently will just sit around and watch Netflix or play video games for a year. That's the exact opposite of what you want to do. Like you want to do something. It doesn't have to be like the most highly charged, helpful, volunteering type of program you could possibly engage in, but you want to do something that's enriching yourself at least. Yeah, you could walk around Europe with a backpack on your back just meeting people. Sure. I mean, that's fine too. Just don't play video games ever. You know what I'm saying? I know that they get a bad rap unfairly a lot, but it's code for laziness. If you've kind of focused your sights on something, try and find out as much as you can about the place, the program, as in not just a little research on the Internet and see if you can talk to someone who's done it and really know what you're getting into. Like, what is a day, like, building houses in a developing nation? Like, what kind of hours am I going to be putting in? Am I up to that task? Because as we've been saying here, not only not going to do yourselves any favor, but you're going to be a burden on that program if you get down there and you're extra weight. Yeah. So one of the other things that parents are probably very fearful of when their kids says gapier, they can cost quite a bit. Writing a check, this house stuff works article says 30 to 40 grand. I'm sure that it's more than that by now because I think it's a few years old. But there are ways you can offset that cost. There are gap year programs that you can engage in that are way cheaper than that. Some are free and some I think AmeriCorps or City Year, they might be the same thing. One of those guys actually pays you a stipend of $5,700 at the end of the year, which is, I mean, if you think of it as the pay for a year's worth of work, it's terrible prison, right? It's meant to help offset your tuition and say, like, hey, good job. Way to go, you did it, but they don't charge you a dime. And some other places also will give you free room and board, typically with local families. So not only are you getting free room and board as part of the program, you're also immersing yourself in that culture by living with that family. Yeah. And sometimes universities even have programs where you can earn school credits that not necessarily that you can just take anywhere, but that you can use for your specific university that you have pledged to attend. I saw it somewhere, though, that you want to be very careful with that, because if you do a deferment program where you say, I'm applying to college grade, I got in. I'm going to take a year off for a gap year. And they say, okay. Some universities aren't okay with you taking credit courses at another accredited university. You want to check with them first before you do that. I think that's it. You got anything else? Got nothing else. Do it, kids. Cap it up. Yeah. And if you took a gap year, let us know. We want to hear about it, how it affected you or didn't affect you or whatever. Okay, great. If you want to know more about gap years, actually we can send you to How Stuff Works and you can check out this article on that site. And since I said how stuff works, it's time for listener mail. I'm going to call this one. What am I going to call this one? Oh, Cockney rhyming slang. All right. You got a lot of feedback about that. A lot of angry Brits. A lot of Brits with good senses of humor sure. That knew that we were going to botch it. Probably. I didn't see any angry Brits. Did we have any? I think a lot of kind of jokingly angry Brits. Got you. But this is from a Nazi. They're never angry. No. Hey Chaps, love the episode. And like Josh, I knew immediately after Chuck tried his hand at Cockney that he sounded like someone famous. Michael Caine was a solid guess, but I was thinking Mike Myers as Austin Powers. He says, for what it's worth, rhyming slang is wildly prevalent amongst cricket players in Australia. Back when I used to play competitively, it was at once a science and an art form, either developing or deciphering their slang being used by the teammates, by your teammates. It often took many forms, including traditional slang like butcher's hook for look, or he's had an absolute Barry, meaning shocker I-E-A poor performance taken from the Australian comedian and actor Barry Crocker. The names of some of famous players being used as descriptions also, such as David Boon for tunes. Put on some David Boones. I guess David Boone is the famous cricketeer. Sure. As you might imagine when you're spending all day standing in a field in the Aussie sun or watching others do that from the sidelines. You look for any activity to keep your mind engaged. Rhyming Slang was a hilarious mainstay in that respect. Enough for me. Keep up the good work, guys. You're my daily dose of a good old bubble bath. You're a bubble bath for Tom Mcleusson in Sydney, Australia. Thanks, Tom. That was a great one. Much appreciated. Thanks to everybody who wrote in about the Cockney rhyming slang episode. It did generate a ton of emails in it. It did. Strangely, if you want to generate a ton of email for us, you can start by going to Stuff You Should Know and follow us on our social links there. You can also send us an email to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is production of iHeartRadio's how stuff works. For more podcasts my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite show. Hey everybody. I don't know about you, but I am excited that it's summer. School's out, the sun is shining, and best of all, there's downtime for days. That's where true crime podcasts on Amazon Music come in. They're the perfect activity for last minute road trips, long walks or, if you're brave enough, late nights. With so many killer shows like Morbid, My Favorite Murder and Small Town Murder, you'll never be bored to death again. So download the free Amazon Music app to start listening to all your favorite true crime podcasts. Plus, with Amazon Music, you can access new episodes early. Download the app today. You want your kid eating the best nutrition, right? And by that we mean your dog. Halo Elevate is natural science based nutrition guaranteed to support your dog's top five health needs. 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43e9b3a2-53a3-11e8-bdec-f3a8904c886f | Pirate Radio: Mavericks on the High Seas | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/pirate-radio-mavericks-on-the-high-seas | Pirate radio started out in England as a way to sidestep the regulations of Big Radio. While outlawed, it still exists today in the UK and America. Learn all about it today. | Pirate radio started out in England as a way to sidestep the regulations of Big Radio. While outlawed, it still exists today in the UK and America. Learn all about it today. | Tue, 11 Aug 2020 09:00:00 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2020, tm_mon=8, tm_mday=11, tm_hour=9, tm_min=0, tm_sec=0, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=224, tm_isdst=0) | 47211089 | audio/mpeg | "Hey, everybody. I don't know if you've heard, but we have a book coming out finally. Finally, after all these years. It's great. It's fun. You're going to love it. It's called Stuff You Should Know colon an Incomplete Compendium of Mostly Interesting Things. Yes. And it's 26 jampacked chapters that we wrote with another guy named Nell's Parker, who is amazing and is illustrated amazingly by our illustrator Carly Minnardo. And it's just an all round joy to pick up and read, even though we haven't physically held in our hands yet. It's like we have Chuck in our dreams so far. I can't wait to actually see and hold this thing and smell it. And so should you. So preorder now. It means a lot to us. The support is a very big deal. So preorder anywhere. Books are sold. Welcome to stuff. You should know a production of Iheartradios how stuff works. Hey, and welcome to pump up the volume. I'm Josh. There's Chuck Jerry's out there somewhere raging against the machine, and this is what we'll just say. It's stuff you should know. I love it when I send you this research, you are like the first thing you said was pump up the volume. Sure, man, this is such a great movie. You know what's funny is I didn't think about that once until you said that, and I was like, oh, yeah, it was all about piracy and radios. Yeah, I love that movie. I just hadn't seen it. I don't know. I don't think probably since then, it has a good soundtrack. It has bad brains in Henry Rollins doing Kick Out the Jams NC Five song. It also has probably the best soundgarden song of all time heretic. Well, it's tough to call for me as a soundgarden nut, but yeah, good song. It is a good song. Which one's better than that? I like a lot of soundgarden. Yes. I have probably 20 tied for first songs. Okay. Is that one of them? Yeah, it's up there. Oh, thanks for that. I love it. It's great. I love all sound garden songs. Sure. Yeah, I guess I do, too, now that I think about it. I think it could have had something to do with Chris Cornell's voice to an extent. Rip. Yes. For real. I used to joke about imagining the first time that he, like, sung in the shower when he was 13 or something. He was like, wow, I think I know what I'm going to do for a living. Yeah, exactly. Shower. So we're talking about Pump Up the Volume in Chris Cornell right now because this episode is about pirate radio, and specifically it's about the British pirate radio invasion of the 60s that I had no idea about. I've never seen that movie, pirate radio, but I intend to now. Have you seen it? I haven't seen the movie, but I was acquainted with the story somehow. I think I might have seen a short documentary or something about the Caroline. And really, really cool stuff it is, which is why we're going to talk about it in this episode. Yeah, but I just found the whole thing I don't know if mind blowing is the right word, but certainly deeply interesting. And I think it's cool because it's one of those pieces to the jigsaw puzzle of history, at least like rock history, that you didn't even realize, like you didn't have. And by you, I mean me. Yeah. And here's the thing is, there were other pirate radio stations all around the world, and there always have been since there's been radio and restrictions on radio. But, hey, and as long as there's rock, Chuck, there always will be. That's true. But the UK version was sort of the most celebrated and the most famous, I think, obviously why they made a movie about it. And one of the reasons is because the man whose thumb they were under was the BBC, which is a big deal. It was a big deal because here in the United States, and I know it all of you listeners outside of the United States here, you're like, yeah, this is what it was like in the United States. The radio spectrum has always been very free. It was intended to be very free to where there was a multiplicity of voices and you could say a lot of stuff, get a little stodgy, and it was kind of stodgy from the outset, but for the most part, it wasn't just one monolithic organization that controlled all of the radio waves. That's just not how it's been in the States and in places like the UK. That's how it was. Basically, right out of the gate, they said, this is a really valuable tool, you can really shape people's minds with this. So we're going to leave it specifically under government control. We'll provide a bunch of different stuff, not everything you want, but a lot of stuff, especially if you're a stodgy, conservative, old establishment type, you're going to love what we're pumping out. But the point is, it's too important to just kind of let anybody come along with the money for a radio license to just set up a radio station. That seems absurd. Only the loony colonies would do something like that. Yeah, so the BBC had a very viselike grip, like you were saying, for about 40 something years, and then the 60s come along and like so many other things in America and the UK, kids that were born of these World War Two, I guess you would call them baby boomers or boomers, the babies of those boomers were rock and roll kids. They grew up seeing Elvis and the Beatles on television and they were not square like their parents were, and they had different ideas than their parents did. And this was the case in England in the when the BBC was rock and roll was a thing and they were like, we're not playing this devil's music. They probably didn't say that that was more American. It was certainly controversial songs that seem to us like you just hear them on an elevator today. They were highly controversial back then and there was genuinely nowhere on the radio in the UK for you to reliably turn to, to hear this stuff. You had to go to, like, a club to hear them, and those were few and far between. And then, if you were lucky enough, you might be able to occasionally dial in Radio Luxembourg, which played some of these, like, pop hits, but it was still largely controlled by a few record labels, so they didn't go deep. It was still like whatever new big band they were trying to promote, but it was still way cooler than anything the BBC was promoting. The problem is, the reception was certainly spotty. You ever been to Luxembourg? I have not. I may have passed through it and not known it as I blinked, but I don't believe I have. It's so under the radar. I flew out of there once. That's the only time I've been to Luxembourg, is flew home from Europe, out of Luxembourg Airport. So that's my only like I don't know anything about it as a place. It's interesting. It's like the Delaware of Europe. It may or may not exist. Yeah, so that was pretty much the long and short of it. And the BBC didn't really care that the teenagers wanted more, they just said no. They might have even said nine at this point, you know what I mean? Yes. And this is where a gentleman comes in the picture that would really change everything. And his name is Ronan. And I've heard Americans pronounce it O'Reilly. Yeah, it's spelled O. Little accent, capital Rahilly. And I heard him speak his name in court when they asked his surname, but he said it so quickly it sounded like a D. So it may just be like some weird Irish pronunciation or something that I don't know about. Sure. But we're going to say O'Reilly. I mean, yeah, that's how I heard it, too, but, yeah, he sounded like Brad Pitt and Snatch. Yeah, sort of. I couldn't understand him. I swear there was a D in there. But he was a guy who figured out that their jurisdiction over the airwaves, the BBC and the UK government's jurisdiction, stopped about 5 km off the coast, 3 miles here in the States. And he said, and he didn't invent the idea of planning a boat out there and broadcasting, other countries were doing this kind of thing and exploiting this loophole already. But he said, this is something we should do. The kids want their rock and roll, they want their MTV. We don't know what that is yet and I'm going to bring it to them. Yeah, so he actually took inspiration, like you were saying, there were some scandinavian countries, specifically Sweden and Denmark, that had been home to pirate radio stations that were docked off of their coast. And for very similar reasons, too. There was a state monopoly on radio broadcasting at the time. And some people were like, no, I want to broadcast what I want to broadcast. Right. So they set up those shops, I mean, all the way back in the actually ran across one in the United States to bring it on home, that was operating in the 1930s, 1933. And it had a call sign, Rxkr, and it was out of Panama, even though it was off of the coast of Long Beach. And I think, Chuck, I think I think we either talked about it in our Prohibition episode or we talked about it in our Who Owns the Oceans? Episode. Yeah. But it was originally one of those floating speakeasy casinos docked national waters totally. When they started to broadcast pirate radio as well for a little while. So it had happened before, and there was actually, because of the success of the Scandinavian stations, there was kind of this mad rush in the UK to be the first to see, I guess, and start broadcasting. And Ronan O'Reilly beat them all with what came to be known as Radio Caroline. Yeah. So he was sort of in a tight race with another guy named Allen Crawford who had a project called his was going to be Radio Atlanta. I think it was called Project Atlanta. Nothing to do with Atlanta, Georgia. Atlanta, Texas. From what I saw. Oh, really? I figured it was just a riff on Atlantic Is in the Ocean. No, one of the owners was from Dallas, I believe is a radio man from Texas. And for some reason, he chose Atlanta after Atlanta, Texas. I didn't know it wasn't Atlanta, Texas. I didn't neither. Neither did the people who live in Atlanta, Texas. So they're the Delaware of Texas. That's right. I think O'Reilly got about half a dozen investors because this is going to cost them money. Because you got to buy a ship. It can't just be a little dinghy or rowboat or anything like that. It takes a shipload of equipment yes. And people to operate it and people to stay on it and stuff like that, and meeting rooms. So you got to have a legit ship. So Crawford for Radio Atlanta got the MiAmigo and O'Reilly got a passenger ferry, a Danish ship called the MV Frederica. They each renamed them Atlanta and then Caroline respectively. Apparently Caroline, after Caroline Kennedy because he is lord, saw a photo of little Caroline and little John Jr. Dancing in the Oval Office. And he was inspired by that because he was like, this is what we're trying to do. You're not allowed to dance in the Oval Office yet they're doing it. And we're not allowed to broadcast rock and roll music because the government says so. I'm going to name after Caroline. Very cute name. It is very cute. So that's the name that he went with. And I'm glad that he was one of the I'm glad he was the one who made it first because he was the one who is doing it, I guess, as purely as you would expect somebody to be doing with, like, a constant rotation of DJs operating 24 hours a day, legitimately broadcasting from the ship. And that was not Radio Atlanta's model at all. They were compiling shows or days worth of shows in the studio back in London, recording them and then sailing it out to the ship. There was, like, banking concerns that were invested in it. It was illegit as far as pirate radio goes from the outset. So I'm glad that they weren't the ones who made it to market first. Yeah. So Radio Caroline, their slogan was your all day music station because of that 24/7 format, which is new in and of itself. Right? Yeah. As far as playing music. Absolutely. And they just within a few months, I think they launched on Easter Sunday, 1964 with the Stones tune, It's All Over Now. Perfect. I saw it not Fade Away I saw it's all Over Now actually, I saw in The Guardian and then one other source, not Fade Away. And then I also saw All Over Now, but I saw both in enough legit places that I honestly don't know yes. I saw Not Fade Away was the station's theme song, so who knows? And then they got someone else to compose an original theme song because I think they didn't want to keep playing that. But at any rate, they launched and it didn't take long until they had a larger audience than all of the BBC stations combined. That's wonderful. And they quickly merged. If it goes from Easter Sunday, they merged in July, just a few months later with Radio Atlanta. I guess they figured they had just more power together. And then the Miami Go, they became the Caroline North and the Caroline South broadcasting from two different places. Yeah. Which covered almost all of the UK, but not all of it. There was some southwestern parts that just didn't get it from either ship. The Delaware, they had pretty good coverage of the aisles, for sure, with those two ships. And then eventually Radio Atlanta went under as an organization and Radio Caroline was able to take over both of those ships. So they had that for a pirate radio station. They had a lot of power behind them, for sure. Yeah. We haven't said the obvious. They were called pirate radio because they were operating on ships in the ocean and flouting the law. Yeah. So it was sort of doing double duty there with the name. Yeah. There's actually some really great pieces out there on the Internet about this era. And one of them I saw was they said from the moment they started broadcasting it was basically immediately called pirate radio. For some reason, those two words together, they just strike something in you. Yeah, for sure. And there's lots of cool documentaries, too, in addition to the narrative film, which obviously takes a lot of liberties. And we'll talk a little bit about that, but a lot of cool short documentaries and even longer documentaries. You want to take an ad break? Yeah. True pirates, right? We'll be right back, everybody. Hey, everyone. When you're running a small business, every second counts, and you can't afford to waste a single moment. 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Hopefully those were the bossest ads you've ever heard. Yeah, I'm sure they were very subversive and flouting. Anti establishment. Yeah, exactly. So Radio Caroline is up and running, and when I said earlier, Chuck, that there was, like, it represents a piece of the puzzle of rock and roll history, even pop culture history, that I didn't realize I didn't know existed. But when I said that, I meant this specific group of pirate radio stations. But really, Radio Caroline, from what I can tell, had such a pronounced effect on music that they actually managed to reshape it and re change it, because the BBC was basically saying, we're only playing stodgy stuff. Your parents like, literally square records. That's how square the music we're playing is. There's no place for you bands to play the music you want to play, so you have to make music that we will play on BBC. And all of a sudden now there was this really potent outlet that hadn't existed before. And those bands that had started out kind of prim and BBC ready were now able to start taking acid, like, on a daily basis and really explore their musical abilities and try new things. And they knew that there was a good chance that it would get played on Radio Caroline or some of the other pirate radio stations. And in that it actually shaped psychedelia. It shaped the psychedelic music scene by just giving it a place to start. Yeah. I mean, they had to fill it says here about 2500 songs each week because they were going 24/7. That was each DJ that had to yeah. And that's a lot of music. And you didn't want to just play the same stuff over and over. They wanted to follow and they could follow the American Top 40 sort of system where you play the hits and you play the hits a little more, but then you also try and break new music. And this House Works article says the Moody Blues were a band that kind of came directly out of pirate radio, as far as being broken on pirate radio, starting to do experimental stuff, and that wouldn't obviously get played on the BBC anywhere. But having started out as playing music that would get played on the BBC and then being allowed to kind of alter to what they wanted to be. Totally. And one of the song I saw that's widely considered the first pirate radio hit of the swinging 60s in the UK is Tom Jones It's Not Unusual. Yeah. Good song. Now, that is unusual, as far as facts go. You think that makes the Carlton Dance one degree removed from British 60s pirate radio? I would not have seen that connection before. Yeah, it's Not Unusual, it's a cool song and Tom Jones was a cool dude, but it definitely feels way more square to my ears now than early psychedelia, for sure. The whole thing is from front to back about smoking hash and how much Tom Jones loved his hash. But still today it seems a little tame. For sure. Yeah, he was so great. He's Welsh, right? I don't know. Probably. I think he's Welsh. Okay, we'll go with that. So one of the big DJs, and they had a whole rotation of DJs that all loved what they did. And most of them went on to be DJs for life. Some stayed with Radio Caroline for life. I guess that's the sort of spoiler, is that they're still around today and you can listen to them on the Internet and on the radio, even though they have a legal license now. But I was listening to their stream. You can stream sort of the classic version, which is music from back then, and it's just fantastic. Oh, yeah. It's like a good WFMU playlist. If you ever remember, we were on FMU for a while, the classic I Do New Jersey freeform radio station. That's so great. They clearly had some space to fill, too. Yeah. So I encourage you to go listen to Radio Caroline and check it out. But one of the more famous DJs to come out of that scene was Tony Blackburn, and he was a fan of Radio Luxembourg just as a listener, and saw an ad in the NME New Musical Express. Still a great magazine. Sure. It's been around since the read. Oh, it's fantastic. That Melody Maker are two of the best. And he basically applied for this job, got it, and became one of the more popular DJs on that ship. Yeah, he was one I mean, kind of going down through history. Pete Tong started out on pirate radio. He's a very well known DJ. And supposedly also, I think we mentioned him in the Cockney rhyming Slang episode where everything's gone all wrong. It's gone, pete Tom. Yeah, we definitely did, because we talked about that. It's better than nothing, I think. And then there was another very famous DJ. His name Jazzy. Jazz. Yeah, I'm the DJ. He's the rapper. Remember that? They had to explain it to everybody. So the guy I'm thinking of is DJ Andy Archer. Okay. And he is a very well known DJ husband for many years, I think he started out in the don't know if it's on Caroline or Radio London, one of the competitors, but he is known to have coined the term anorak. And in the UK. I didn't know this, but anarak is slang for, like a super nerdy obsessive fan, basically. And the term was coined because Andy Archer called some of the nerdy male pirate radio fans who were, like, so obsessed with the whole thing, they would actually hire boats to take them out to the ships that were broadcasting. They would normally wear, like, an oracle because of the weather. And anorak apparently gets its origin from pirate radio too well. And that's one of the cool things about the early days of pirate radio, is they didn't have ratings to depend on. They got their feedback from kind of like us, from hearing from people. We get it via email and stuff like that. But they got bags and bags of mail just like us. Just like us. People would stop by their office, like you said, on by boat. That's happened to us before, even though it's not encouraged any longer, and especially now, during the lockdown. There's no one here, but people would show up, they would send them gifts. I think Blackburn was the one that said he would tell listeners that when he got back to land and he would drive away in his little sports car, that he would give away just records. He would give away 45s in this obsolete vinyl. And he said it would take him an hour and a half to get out of town just because he was mobbed by kids on the street looking for him, looking to get a piece of him, looking to get one of those records. It was, like, true fandom. I read something about Tony Blackburn that apparently he once did a live performance of Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree in a cage full of lions with a lion tank. Very psychedelic song. It is. Isn't that weird? Yeah. Why? I don't know. I Think That's Just Tony Blackburn. That's the impression I have. Another DJ was an American named Mike Pasternak. His DJ name was Emperor Roscoe. And he still sort of apparently wears this skull and crossbones baseball hat. And I get a feeling all these people like, this is their cred. They still really hang their hat on this experiences like these rock and roll mavericks from the 60s. Right. That's the impression I have, too. But the thing is, I think most people assume that these ships were just like party boats, basically. And from what I can tell, that's just not the case at all. That they were largely staffed by professional acting DJs, even though a lot of them were not professionals at all. Like you said, it was a Blackburn that he answered an ad in the new Musical Express. Blackburn did Pasternak, the American, he had a little bit of experience with military radio on an aircraft carrier in two years. Yeah. And thought he brought sort of a polish that the British guys didn't have. He said they didn't have the technique yet, but, yes, by all accounts, they were pros. They weren't like in the movie. I think they really play it up as just sort of a big party barge. Sure. Which, I mean, that's a movie kind of thing to do, for sure. And they were allowed, apparently, only two beers a day. And they could play cards, they could watch TV, they could sunbathe. And I think Pasternak said occasionally some women would come aboard for a cup of tea. I don't know if that story is fully true, but I don't either. I think they actually did have tea with some of the anorex that showed up, probably. So we've got radio Caroline. It's operating. It's going pretty well. But there was an incident that went down, I think in 1966, maybe 67, which kind of goes to show you, like, Radio Caroline is this huge smash success, and it's allowed to operate flouting the laws of the UK for a few years before the UK government finally said, enough is enough. And they passed something called the Marine Broadcasting Offenses Act. And supposedly the thing that really prompted them to take action was that there was a hostile physical takeover of one of the pirate radio stations. There was a radio station called Radio City that had taken over a set of abandoned seaforts that were jutting out of the North Sea. And there was a disagreement between a Radio Atlanta owner, the chairman of it, and the guy who was running Radio City, Ridge Calvert, and the other guy, Lord Smedley, shot Rejoice Calvert with the shotgun. When Reggie Calvert came to negotiate with him about getting a, I think, transmitter back or something like that. And the fact that these guys were now physically invading one another's ships and were shooting one another really kind of brought home that the fact that everybody had been calling it pirate radio for a while, made it seem pirate, but not in the good kind of pirate, you know what I mean? Like the real life kind of pirate thing all of a sudden. And that forced the British government's hand. Yeah. I think what I saw was that Smedley was trying to get another merger going and just grow this empire with Radio City and offered up this transmitter to Calvert. It didn't work. Calvert didn't want to pay him for it. And so Smudley literally sent, like, in the dead of night, these guys to board the ship and get it back, like, true pirate style. And Calvert didn't take kindly to that, so he threatened him, went to his house, and was met with a shotgun. I saw that he was not the type to threaten anybody, but that Smedley's housekeeper tried to keep Calvert from entering, I guess, his study or his office or something. They got into a scuffle, and Smedley shot him with a shotgun, got manslaughter. He apparently claimed self defense because, I don't know, the laws were like back then. But the guy did come to his house and he claimed he felt threatened. Yeah. And so he was ultimately acquitted. But the larger impact that it had on pirate radio in the UK is that marine broadcasting offenses act, which you could get up to two years in the pokey for that, not to mention all the fines. And one of the things that they really kind of passed this law on was not like, oh, these guys are actually shooting each other now. We got to do something. It was this idea that their broadcast could interfere with marine distress signals. Yeah. And that is an ongoing, long standing establishment government opposition to pirate radio. That's typically what they go to the public with, like, hey, you want to be out at sea trying to get help, and some kids are spinning the who, and nobody can hear you because your signal is being infringed on. We don't want that either. Let's all get rid of the pirate radio stations. But that doesn't seem to be the real reason why governments tend to oppose pirate radio. It's usually that they're protecting the interests of the corporations who have legitimate licenses and usually a lot more sway with the government than some kids who got their hands on a German merchant vessel and started broadcasting. 60s sold from it. Yeah, we'll get to America today, but that's exactly how they frame it today as well. Right. You're going to get in the way of legitimate signals in case of distress. Well, we won't go there yet, but O'Reilly keeps radio Caroline going. His ship was seized by Dutch authorities, but he got it back. He kept it going. There were some I think George Harrison gave them a substantial check to keep it going because he believed in their mission. In the 70s, Tom Jones chipped in a bunch of hash. Of course, He did. This is more valuable than money, as we all know. But both of the boats, the Caroline North and the south, had a couple of incidents. I think the Miami Go ran aground at one point and was repaired. And then the original Caroline, I think. Did a fire break out or did it sink? No, sorry. So the Amigo sank the original Caroline. I don't know what ever happened to it. I could not find it. But I know for a fact that it wasn't that the original ferry, the MV Caroline, that sank it was definitely the MiAmigo. Well, the MiAmigo must have, too, then, because it ran aground and was fixed. Right. And then later it did it had a little bit of bad luck. What cracks me up in this entire story is that there was a German vessel called the MiAmigo, my friend, in Spanish. The German merchant vessel. Oh, wait. I don't understand. I think the Carolina is a museum now. So that one did survive, right? No, the Ross's Revenge. Okay, so they came up with another German ship, the Ross Revenge, to replace the Miami Go. And that one eventually has been outfitted to be a museum. All right. Which I can't tell they have a website, and it sounds like the last update was from 2014. And I don't know if it's actually open or not. If it is, they definitely need to update their website. But that's the plan at least. I don't know if they ran out of money or something like that. Yeah, I think there's a couple of different museums, but I would love to, on our next UK trip, go check these places out. That'd be a lot of fun. Yeah, I can't wait to get back to the UK and Australia, too, man. Yeah, I think we had even sort of loosely earmarked this year or next year for another international trip. And I don't think that's going to happen. That kind of fell through. And also sorry, everybody. I'm also excited to get back to New Zealand, too. Yeah. Because we didn't get enough time there. Oh, wait, and Canada. Well, we always love to go to Canada. That's easy. Sure. Should we take a break? Yeah, let's take a break. All right. We'll go to Germany next time, too. I'd love to go to Germany. It's my homeland. Well, that's not true. We'll be right back. Hey, everyone. 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No long term commitments or contracts, just go to Stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the home page and enter code stuff. By the way, I said Germany was my homeland because I took German in high school and college, speak German and have been to Germany and love it. I'm not German in any way. What's your ancestry? I did the DNA test. It's fully like UK Irish, sort of European, and then it said like 1% East African or something like that. I got like 2% or zero 2%. It was like no. 2% ashkenazi Jew oh, nice. And then I got 2% something neanderthal. This all checks out. It does, for sure. I'm celebrating both of my heritage. Shalom. Thank you. Back at you. I think it's yeah, back at you. So the US. We kind of overlooked the United States. They didn't have nearly the sort of, I guess, cultural revolution that the UK had. As far as pirate radio goes, they've had a few sort of operations here and there. The one that you were talking about, there was this preacher, Reverend Carl McIntyre. He was a fundamentalist who I think he broadcast from a ship for like 10 hours until there was a fire. He worked so hard on it for months, he thought he was going to be up and running in a few days, maybe a couple of weeks. It ended up taking him months to get this pirate radio ship ready and he got it going and they shut him down in 10 hours. And we've talked about him before, actually, in our Fairness Doctrine, the reason that he was operating from a pirate radio station is he went from being broadcast on like, I think, 600 something radio stations across the south and the Midwest. And he would preach like anticommunism. He said the Catholic Church was fascist. He said Billy Graham was an appeaser. He was a real firebrand and also super political too. And because that Fairness Doctrine said you have to have equal airtime for opposing viewpoints, he didn't do that. So he kind of brought the heat onto some of these stations that were worried about losing their license. They started to drop him. So he tried pirate radio for a minute and it didn't pan out very well for him. He tried for 600 minutes? That's right. That's some fast math, though. It's pretty easy. Where do you see pirate radio in the United States? And it still continues today. In fact, there was one study that said there are more pirate radio station stations in New York on the FM band. Then there were legit stations. Yeah. And that's been going on for a while. I saw late 80s, early 90s. There was a big boom in pirate radio. And like, the epicenter seems to have been New York because of Christian Slater. I think so. Or maybe they wrote the movie because of the boom. I don't know. Well, a lot of them are out of Brooklyn. They're broadcast from rooftops. You get a little equipment, you get an antenna, and you're in business. And here's the deal with pirate radio in the United States and what's going on now, which is currently the FCC has popped up, of course. And they used to, like the article said, play kind of Whack A Mole trying to knock these things back as they came up. But I guess they thought it was such a problem, especially in New York, that the FCC, especially this current FCC, has stood up and said, no, not going to happen on our watch. And in January of this year, the president signed and I love it when they come up with an acronym that really works for this one, they had to reverse engineer this one, the Pirate Act preventing Illegal Radio Abuse Through Enforcement, but also abuses in there, like Stop Abusing that Radio Center. Yeah, but they needed an A for sure. I'm saying, like, hats off to them for that one. It couldn't be radio amusement through unfortunate. They actually at least they used all the letters from all the words. I hate it when they just slip a couple of words in there like nobody's going to notice. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's lazy. So the problem with the Pirate Act is this. It takes already existing FCC laws that allow the FCC to kind of go after pirate radio stations and find them. I saw you're looking at fines of something like $10,000 a day, typically with a maximum of about $75,000 for a total fine for operating an illegal pirate station. That's bad. I mean, most people who are operating pirate stations do so as we'll talk about in a minute, because they don't have the money to run a legit station and pay all the fees and all the application fees and the license fees and all that stuff. So that is significant, what the Pirate Act does. It takes all those existing laws and just says, you're, that 75,000 max fee. Let's up that to $2 million. And the whole point of that is to specifically intimidate people out of pirate radio, out of broadcasting pirate radio. And that's terrible, especially coming from an FCC that's led by a former telecommunications lobbyists and the guy who presided over the end of net neutrality. That's some sour grapes right there, if you ask me. Yeah, and the whole deal with pirate radio these days, especially out of New York, is they're not just like, spinning tunes for fun. I'm sure there are some that do that. But a lot of it is are people starting these very small, small operations that maybe broadcast over their neighborhood because they are an underserved community as far as radio programming goes. And they will speak in their native language to people who are listening in their native language and they are getting news out to people in their native language. And these are communities that aren't represented on the regular FM spectrum. And there's a big argument to be made that this is almost like a public service, in a way, to these underserved communities. Absolutely is. And that's what radio has been. That's what's been intended for since the inception of it, at least in the United States. In the UK too, it's meant to be a public service for everybody. The thing is, in the US. We've long valued a multiplicity of different voices, of competing ideas and thoughts of different music. Even if you are talking about pirate radio stations that are just playing music, they're not doing anything. There's no community discussion or anything like that. The music they're playing is probably stuff you're not going to hear anywhere else on the radio. And there's definitely something that's lost when more and more radio stations become homogenized further and further. Then all of a sudden, it's kind of like the radio equivalent of that strip mall that you could go to Topeka or Miami or Seattle and find the exact same stuff in the exact same stores with almost the exact same layout to where it's all the same. That's what pirate radio represents. Or even if you take the pirate out of it, that's what a multiplicity of different community radio stations represents. The lack of homogeneity that kind of sucks the life out of everything that in and of itself makes them valuable and that they shouldn't be aggressively pursued or chuck. There's one other thing, too. If you are going to aggressively pursue this, then also make an avenue for legitimacy rather than just try to stamp them out, or else it really makes you question what the ultimate motive is. Yeah, and here's the thing. It'd be very easy to sit back and say, well, you've got the Internet. You can have an Internet radio station, you can have a podcast. It's more democratized than ever before to get your voice out there. Which is true in a way, but that's also a very privileged thing to say when you just assume that someone has the money to afford the Internet. Yes, just go get a new iPhone, which is your problem. Yeah, exactly. Just download the app. It's that easy. Radio. I don't understand how you're not kidding. Radio is free and you can buy a radio. You probably have a radio if you're one of these people in an underserved community, but if you don't, you can get one at a thrift store for $5 that picks up the FM and Am spectrum, and you don't have to pay monthly fees, you don't have to pay internet fees, and it is a true Democratized voice for the people who can't afford to get it otherwise. Right. So I didn't know anything about this as far as the Pirate Act. I didn't know that existed until we started researching this episode. But it's very clear that this is a law that's creating outlaws where there shouldn't necessarily be outlaws. There is no inherent problem with pirate radio from what I've read. And granted, it was on a pirate radio organizations blog, prometheus Radio Project, but they said you can find very few instances of pirate radio stations actually interfering with other stuff, but you can very easily find major corporate radio stations interfering with stuff. And very frequently, say there was an instance in the nineties where North Perry, Florida's airport had to change frequencies because the commercial radio station that was interfering with their frequency that they were using to communicate with airplanes, they wouldn't change their frequency, so the airport had to. You don't find that with pirate radio stations. And from what I saw, there's a lot of self policing that goes on in the community because you don't want to infringe on somebody else's broadcast because that means that their broadcast is going to infringe on your broadcast. Yeah, you want your own digits in America, like we said before. To reiterate, they're standing behind the same thing the BBC did, which is it can interfere with sharing of vital public safety information. Right. And it's just that's such hooey. Like if someone dropped a dirty bomb on New York City, they're sure the radio stations might issue some sort of public safety alert. But I guarantee you, so would the pirate radio stations, and they would do so in their language. That's true. That's right, yeah, because there's a lot of evidence that pirate radio stations serve immigrant communities because they have kind of this cultural tie to radio as a technology. So when they come over here to the United States, they expect to get their information from radio. Yes. The Twin Towers fall. I guarantee you pirate radio stations weren't like, we're just going to keep spinning the tunes. I'm sure they did like every other broadcast and TV show and radio show in the world. I'm sure they ceased their programming and started handing out vital information. Oh, yeah, for sure. I can't prove it, but I can't imagine that they did otherwise. I like what you did there, too. They're like, well, what are you going to do? I mean, pirate radio interferes with stuff. You're like, oh, yeah, what are you going to do if there's a dirty bomb in New York, you just threw it right back in the FCC's face. I don't even know what a dirty bomb is. The thing is, from what I've seen, small government conservatives and libertarians should be all over that pirate act. They should be very much up in arms about this and about the way that the FCC targets small, illegal radio stations without offering, like, a legitimate path to legitimacy. And I would like to see that. That's right. And by the way, I have an intro correction. I think I said that preacher's boat caught fire. I don't think it actually caught fire. I think it just started smoking because the antenna feeder line interfered with another radio station, didn't actually catch fire when he was because I thought the ironies of preaching fire and brimstone and it actually catching fire was too great. You're right. God went, be quiet. It's just smoke. So if you are interested in pirate radio, the Verge did a whole series on it. Really interesting in depth stuff. And yes, you could also do I ran across one called The Lot. It's out of, I think, Williamsburg, and it's on a little lot in a shipping container. Of course it is. And it's like all DJ sets all the time, but it's pretty great. And they have a webcam of what you can see out the window. It's just cute, nice, and it's just cozy in a way. Yeah. And again, go check out and stream the radio, caroline classic version, if you're into just good playlists. It's one of the best. I got to check that out. I didn't run across that. So thank you for that public service. Chuck, you got anything else? No? Okay, well, that's it for pirate radio for now, and that means it's time for listing or mail. This is called Hot off the presses. Just got this email and it was just so heartwarming I had to share it. Hi, guys and Jerry. I love listening to the recent episode on soap. I consider myself a bit of a soap nerd because when I served at the Peace Corps as a Peace Corps volunteer in Senegal for three years, late two thousand s, I guess 2016 to 2019 late teens. My main activity was training women's groups on how to start small businesses making and selling soap. We train them on how to make all kinds of bar soap using local ingredients shea butter, honey, mint, herbs. Teaching these women's groups about soap making is a really excellent way to improve their household financial security for a few reasons. First, you're always going to have a market for soap because everyone needs it. Secondly, there are a few barriers to entry to making soap. You don't need to be able to read or have fancy equipment. If you can measure, pour and stir, then you can make it. And thirdly, because women in Senegal are responsible for so much of the daily chores in their home, soap making requires only a little bit of time, since much of the process is waiting for the soap to cure fully into a hard bar. And fourth, making soap is a great way to teach all the basics of starting a business. Marketing, accounting, record keeping, calculating unit costs, profit margins, making creative packaging. Once they master these skills, they can expand to other business opportunities. And fifth it smells really good. Yeah. She said some of Rafonda's memories are her service. Seeing the satisfaction on their faces. It's the lion shea butter mixture spent ages stirring by hand became real soap for them to sell and market. I trained over 150 members of more than five women's groups on soap making, and all of the groups continue to make soap and sell it for a profit today, helping them make their households more financially secure. Tell me they included a website. No, because it's a bunch of different groups, but it was from the Peace Corps, so you obviously want to support them. And that is from Grace. E nagle. Thanks a lot, Gracie. We appreciate that. That was great. That was a great email. She sent pictures. We'll have to check them out. We appreciate what you did over there in Senegal to totally. If you want to let us know about something great you did in your life, like Grace E did, you can send us an email, wrap it up, spank it on the bottom twice and send it off to Stuffpodcast at IHot. Stuff you should know is production of iHeartRadio's how stuff Works. For more podcasts my Heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows." | |
How Woolly Mammoths Worked | https://omny.fm/shows/stuff-you-should-know-1/how-woolly-mammoths-worked | It was only 11000 years ago that the last true woolly mammoths died out, close enough to the modern age that humans lived alongside them. But were humans the cause of mammoths' sudden extinction or was climate change to blame? | It was only 11000 years ago that the last true woolly mammoths died out, close enough to the modern age that humans lived alongside them. But were humans the cause of mammoths' sudden extinction or was climate change to blame? | Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:00:55 +0000 | time.struct_time(tm_year=2016, tm_mon=8, tm_mday=16, tm_hour=13, tm_min=0, tm_sec=55, tm_wday=1, tm_yday=229, tm_isdst=0) | 48375167 | audio/mpeg | "This episode of Stuff You Should Know is sponsored by Squarespace. Whether you need a landing page, a beautiful gallery, a professional blog, or an online store, it's all possible with the Squarespace website. Go to squarespace.com and set your website upon heart. Welcome to stuff you should know from housetepworkscom. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W, Chuck Bryant. And there's Jerry over there. So this is stuff you should know. Howdy before we get started, I want to say, best of luck, Miami's. Wonderful, great. Best friends Brandon, Laurel, who are at this moment in the delivery room. Whoa. Laurel's border broke there, expecting their firstborn child. Wow. So by the time this releases, it will be, like, six years old. Yeah, pretty much. Because we have a six year old. Yeah. So good luck, guys. Well, that's great. Yes. You should tell them that personally so they actually hear this. I recorded it. That's enough. Got you. They'll give what they get and be happy with it. All right. Yeah. You excited about Willie Mammoths? I am. Are you not? No, I think they're wonderful wooly anything plus also like a woolly mammoth. They were sweet, good natured, they could take a joke at their own expense, but they weren't self deprecating. They just had a good sense of humor. Yeah. Anything related to an elephant. Okay. In my book. Yeah, agreed. I have a very big love for that animal. Sure. Well, it's a big animal. Deserves a lot of them. They're just wonderful in every way. They grieve over their dead. Oh, my God. There's this one story about Domini, I believe is the name of the elephant that I think he or she was in a zoo and had, like, a best friend, and the best friend died, and this elephant could not get over it. I think the zookeeper is like, she died of a broken heart. Can't take that. She grieved herself to death. And I think the story is even more tragic than that. I'm not doing it justice, but just go research Domini the elephant. D-A-M-A-N-I you're like, whatever. It's kind of funny, right? He'll tickle your ribs. I don't know if I did it justice. Did it come across as funny? Stupid elephant. Well, you know what's even cuter than a wooly mammoth? Oh, yeah. Well, what's cuter than an elephant is an elephant with hair. Sure. So that's a woolly mammoth. Okay. Or a mastodon, as we'll talk about a little bit. Those are different. They're really different. But they have hair. Not as much. Yeah, but they have hair. Yeah, but you wouldn't look at it and be like, oh, that's woolly. You just be like, that's kind of hairy stubbly. But the only thing cuter than a hairy elephant is a tiny hairy elephant. Yeah. And there was a place there still is a place called Rangle Island, and they don't have them anymore, but at one point not too long ago in the grand scheme of the history of everything right. The Wrangle island. Mammoths roamed the earth. And they are how tall are they? Like human height? Right at the shoulder. They were four to 6ft tall. Oh, man. So, yeah, it's like a mini woolly mammoth. Give me one. And they were directly descended from the woolly mammoth. They just ended up on this island. And the island is pretty good size. It's the size of Delaware, from what I understand. Oh, that's huge. Well, for an island. But it's small enough that they became dwarf. They went under. That what's that process called where a population lands on an island and it immediately begins to diminish in size. Oh, I don't know. I haven't heard of that. Island fever. Something weird like that. Because they wanted to ride the roller coasters. I don't know why you'd have to be bigger. Maybe they were scared of roller coasters. That's what I meant. They're like, we're getting out of here and we're going to shrink so we could possibly go on a roller coaster. I butchered that one. They were around for you butcher them? Like a wrangle island bully. Mammoth. So they were around until about 3000 years ago, something like 3600 years ago, I think they were the last of their kind were on Rangel Island in 1650 BC. And, dude, by that time, the pyramids were already 1000 years old. Yeah, like people, they shared territory with people. But most, I shouldn't say most, a lot of the wooly mammoths, especially the ones that lived at the end of the Pleasocene Pleistocene. That's a tough one to say. I say Pleistocene, is it not? Yes, I think that's right. Okay. But I always want to take consonants and switch them around and shuffle it up. Well, you're an anarchist. Yeah, especially with words. I even hate the word anarchist. You call it anarchist. Yeah. But man, that threw me off. Sorry, man, what was I saying? Pleistocene. Oh, yeah. They did coexist with humans. Yeah. Like, it's the one thing the Flintstones were right about. When you see a big wooly mammoth in Fred Flintstone, that was entirely possible. That's right. The dinosaurs, the broncosaurus, all that stuff, just fantasy. And if that wooly mammoth on the Flintstones was used to wash a car or some other household chore completely real, right? Yeah, they were very helpful. In addition to having a great sense of humor, they would help you out around the house. That was one of my favorite parts of the Flintstones. I remember when I was a kid watching that and just being so tickled. Every time a bird's beak was used to play a record. And they were always just, like, so willingly. Like, just tilt me down and I'll play your record. Yeah, I love that stuff. And then every once in a while, they would thank the animal and the animal will be like, sad right. Oh, man. Those are the days. So the Wrangle Island mammoths were around until about 3600 years ago, and they survived the extinction of the rest of the mammoths about 40 years earlier. Right. Yeah. And if you look at the dinosaurs, they left us 65 million years ago. So this is all very recent stuff. Like people hunted wooly mammoths and ate them and used their bones and tusks and wore their skin, I imagine, and not worshiped. Well, we don't really know for sure, but no, we don't at least revered them enough to put them in their cave art. This is all kind of really cool stuff to me. We know a lot about them compared to a lot of other extinct species. Right. But where they went remains a mystery. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely not definitive and there's a lot of theories, but there's really they melted. Remember that one? Yeah. What was that from? It was from one of our earlier podcasts. That was my personal theory on where, like, the protohumans went or something, I don't even know. They melted. Yes, I forgot all about that. Yeah. It's an old one, man. And not only that, my friend, but they have, like, relatives, distant cousins still roaming the Earth today. Because if you look at the African bush and the African forest elephants, and the Asian elephant is actually the closest relative. It's very close. Yeah. I mean, it's close and distant, if that makes sense. It doesn't. All right. How do you mean? Well, I mean, it's close enough to say it's the closest relative, but they're still distant cousins. I see. They don't have the hair or the high sloping back or the curly tusk. Right. Yeah. With the finger like grippers. Yeah. But they're still pretty close. Close enough that some mad scientists are like, we can resurrect woolly mammoths using the Asian elephant. Yeah. Because we have DNA. Right. And they have found a lot of these carcasses, some of them really intact. Like, there's brain and bone and blood. Yeah. Basically, the whole thing is just slightly mummified, so there's, like, water loss. Other than that, it's all there. Like, there's one called man, this is tough word to say. And there's another continent switcheroo my brain wants to pull. Lib. It means love in Russian. Was this a little guy? Yeah. The little baby? Yeah. This was not a miniature, it was actually a calf. Right. It was a baby wooly mammoth, I think, maybe like a month old or something like that. But it was still 33 inches. Yes. And then in life would have weighed about 100 kilos. Or \u00a3220. No, \u00a3100.50 kilos. That's missing half of its weight in water. Oh, you mean while it was alive? When you'd want to pick it up sure. And hug it. Now you just kind of pat it on the head and be like, you stay over there. Yeah. When was that found? 2007. Yeah. And it was found perfectly preserved because apparently she had been colonized by some sort of lactic acid producing bacteria that effectively pickled her. So it preserved her, but it also made her very unappetizing to scavengers, too. She tasted weird. Yeah. Right. So she's a really good example of a wooly mammoth. I can't remember how many tens of thousands of years old she is, but she's pretty old. So we do have this access to all these great specimens, and they've figured out that about the shelf life of viable DNA is a million years. So there's plenty of Willie mammoths whose DNA we have access to that's much younger than a million years old. Sure. And yeah, we'll talk about it, but some people are like, let's bring them back. Let's de extinct them. Yeah. Tricky territory. Oh, yeah. But it's a willy mammoth. Pretty cute. It's not a saber tooth tiger. Right. That's not tricky. You just don't do that. But the kind of the long and the short of all this, with the distant cousins and all of the preserved carcasses we found, is that we have a really robust picture of how these things lived and what they were like. And I guess we'll take a break here and we'll get a little bit into their nine to five job. We'll go back to the mammoth world. All right. So if you picture in your mind a woolly mammoth, you might think, all right, frozen wasteland and like Siberia. Right. They just eat like snow. I'm sure they appreciate a good snow cone. They like Italian nice. More than the snowcone. They're a little more European. But what was actually going on is they were trotting upon land. It was called a mammoth step SDE PPE. Not the st e variety. Sure. There's an extra PE. Yeah, like a steppy boy. It's not pronounced steppy, is it? No. Okay. When you first encounter the word it is. Right. And this was basically it was sort of a unique time in the history of planet Earth in that it was rich. These areas were rich with stuff for them to eat, just like, overloaded with vegetation. Right. Yeah. One thing, they were veggie eaters. Yeah, they were. They were actually grassland grazers, you can call them. So they ate long grasses, sedges, which is like a fake grass, but for all intents and purposes. Yeah. They came upon a basil field, man. It was all over it's Italian night. Yeah. So they ate grasses and they were herbivores, and they ate this pretty specific diet. And it certainly wasn't snowbased. It was definitely colder, which is, I think, another reason why people think they lived in a frozen wasteland. Right. Well, because they needed that coat. They did. And the reason why is because they were living in the Pleistocene, which is definitely it was a series of ice ages. Right? Yeah. So it was colder. It was like five to ten deg celsius colder than it is globally now, but the whole ecosystem was just utterly different than what it is today. So if you did manage to bring back a wooly mammoth and you put them on the Siberian step, they'd be like, Well, I'm going to starve. There's nothing here for me to eat. Yeah, things have changed. If you put them in Arizona or New Mexico or someplace where it might kind of look the same with this shrubbery and brush and grasses, they would say, no, can't live here either. Going to die here, too. It's too hot. Why did you bring me back? You guys really didn't think this through. That's right. But what you also had, though, is a pretty nice I mean, it was colder, but it was kind of nice weather for a wooly mammoth. The sea levels had dropped, so it exposed all this great land for them to roam. And it was very breezy and clear and kind of lovely. Easy, breezy, beautiful. Easy, breezy, beautiful for wooly mammoth. Yeah, because, again, we'll talk about their code. Actually, we can talk about it right now. So their coat was are you familiar with the musk oxy? It was like that. It was like a skirt of long hair, but beneath that was a woolly undercoat that really kept them warm. Yeah. The outer coat, and we've talked about a lot of mammals, most of them have, like, layers of different kinds of fur, but the outer coat was the guard fur, and then under, like you said, was the woolly undercoat. And below that they had an inch of skin, very oily, and below that they had three to four inches of fat. And all of this stuff made them nice and cozy and warm. I bet they were delicious to eat, man. Oily skin, inches of fat. Yeah, I'm just going to ignore that. All right. 20 hours a day they spent eating, I guess, fattening themselves up for me. For you? So they would just roam around and eat man and get along with each other. I was about to say peaceful, which they kind of were, unless they were infringed upon. And you don't want to mess with the wooly mammoth alone right. Now, this article puts it that in a standing fight, they could take all commerce. Sure. They were definitely like they could defend themselves. Yes. And for the most part, apparently, the major predators of the day would not have taken a healthy adult mammoth on. They would have, like, maybe followed a herd. Because if you saw a single mammoth, it was a male, or if you saw a herd of them, it was females and calves. Female calves. Yeah. Right. Or it could be male calves or nursing. Still, before they went off on their own. Teenagers, they sent them off pretty young, though, I think, maybe starting when they were teenagers. Okay. And either way, no shortfaced bear or saber tooth tiger is going to take on one of these guys by themselves. It'd be like a calf that fell behind or like one that was sick or dying or trapped in a tar pit. You would leap out with your clovis beer, my knife and fork, and have dinner. My neck can tie around my neck. And they did share their area with these fearsome creatures like the sabertooth tiger. And there is actually something called a woolly rhinoceros, which is exactly what you think it is. Yeah. I'll bet you would not want to mess with that. I'd want to scratch them behind the earth. Rhinoceros are tough and mean. I know that's. The problem with me is I see these things and I think, like a big tiger. I think all that guy needs is, he looks like my cat. You should not go live among the grizzly bears. It's just to give them a good scratch behind the ear. And they're like, oh, I kind of like this guy. He's not out to get me. That's not what they do. I know. That's why I don't take safaris. I'd be the dope that tried to pet the cheetah. Oh, my God. Did you see the video of the woman who got out of her car in a tiger preserve and was like a security camera, so it's a steady shot. And I don't know what the lady was doing out of the car. I think maybe in China, one of those awful and she's just standing there 1 second, then all of a sudden, a tiger comes in frame and just pulls her right out of frame. Wow. And then her sister and husband get out of the car, and I think her sister was killed as well. And the husband just runs back and dives into the car. But what were they doing out of the car? And, like, this huge tiger, at least the size of the woman, just comes and just grabs her nuts. Well, really disturbing. Yeah, I don't want to see that. Then you probably shouldn't. You'd still be like, I'd still pet that tiger. No, I wouldn't pet that tiger. I bet another one. What was the name of the grizzly man? Timothy Treadwell or Tread way. I think treadwell man. Yeah. That was a disturbing you should destroy. That was the best part was Bernard Herdsograph. He should narrate everything. He should he should do every commercial voiceover, every documentary, just you name it. He should do this podcast. They should go back and redo the voiceover that Alec Baldwin did for the Royal Tanning bombs. Put a different spin on things. I think Royal was born in Archer Avenue. Now, that's a good herzog. It's not bad. All you have to do is try and do it like an evil, mad German scientist or something or colonel Clink. Yeah, Colonel Clink. Where were we? We were talking about how they could defend themselves. You'd still want to pet them, and they'd probably be okay. With you petting them, they just accidentally trample you. Yeah, exactly. Like a real elephant. Those little calves were born in the springtime and here's something that'll come into factor later when they were wiped from the planet. They have a very long gestation period, it's 22 months. So they're not pumping out these calves with great regularity. It takes a long time. Right. Almost two years. It's a while. So they would have been impregnated, I guess, summer, late summer, a year previous, and then born in the spring. Because they adapted to do that, because there was more to eat. Yeah, that makes sense. It's like, it's lovely. There's stuff blooming everywhere. Look at that basal field. Right. We don't know exactly what their society was like, but just based on modern elephants, paleontologists have surmised that they were very social. Most likely. Yeah. There's mammoth trackways that we've found fossilized footprints that show a number of mammoths walking side by side and amongst one another. And they're clearly different sized footprints. So there are different generations all walking together, which would indicate that they probably have similar societies to elephants. Right, right. Like bury their dead and stuff like that. Yeah, defend their dead, grieve over them. It's really tough. And that they probably came together in annual migrations, although the evidence for that is still lacking. Right. And if they did migrate, I think I saw somewhere that they probably didn't go more than 400 miles. I don't go more than 400 miles when I walk. I don't either, anymore. So hats off to the mammoths for walking that far. When they would go into heat, the female, like many mammals and many animals, there would be a competition of sorts among the men everywhere, from puffing their chest out and flaunting to just straight up fighting with one another. Right. I guess if times were tough, there weren't a lot of ladies around. And that is a lot like the modern elephant as well, in that they had what's called a must gland. M-U-S-T-H not Musk, which is easy to say. Yeah, must harder with the air. It's like saying musk when you've been drinking a lot. I know, that's exactly what it sounds like. Or if you're Cindy Brady. Right. Or if you're missing a tooth. Right. It's all one of the same two weeks. Oh, yeah. You're getting psyched. I am getting psyched. And I also was like, Can I just get it done before this? Like, I'm going to Paris for three days, for God's sake. And I was reading about Paris and I was like, if you don't want to stand out americans are kind of if you want to blend in French or Parisians kind of chic, you should be clean cut and you shouldn't wear T shirts and shorts and tinny shoes. Like, man, I'm going to be the most American dude there. You might as well just go with it. There's nothing chic about me. Yeah, just walk around your me undies and an ill fitting T shirt and flip flop. Is it like born in the USA T shirt? Yeah, exactly. With an American eagle on your head. Yeah. And on the back it says, have you seen my tooth? They're going to love you. Yeah, we'll see. I know. Fine. Well, we're also going to the land of bad dentistry. Where is that? In the UK. They're going to welcome us with open arms. Oh, yeah. They're going to be like, he's one of us. Is that a thing still? I thought no, I'm sure it's gotten better, but it's still a joke that we can make. Got you. I think so. Or Mike Myers. Can we'll find out? We have no idea how our humor is going to go over there. Probably fall flat. We'll see. All right, so they have the musk gland and that secretes fluid. And I think that just sort of here, it establishes their mating hierarchy. It's like a pheromone gland. Yeah. Whoever has the desk must not must. Oh, it does. Secrete musk. I'm sure you could call it that. Or it secretes must. Talk about their tusks, because here's something I didn't know. Okay. The tusks actually have evolved from their incisors. It makes perfect sense. It's like Lisa Simpson with that, where she didn't have a dental plan, so her tooth was going to grow up through her face. Do you remember that? They have like, a projection or something? Yeah, I remember that. It's exactly what it's like, actually. But these go outward. Yeah. And they twist around. If you've seen pictures of mammoths before, if not, look one up. And it's not like a standard just curvy elephant tusk. It's just beautiful the way it swoops around. Yeah. And I believe they could get up to, like, 16ft long. It's enormous. Wow, that's a big tusk. We'll talk a little more about how they were used, but here's to me is one of the saddest things they go through. Well, first of all, their other teeth are foot long. They're molars, which is remarkable. And they go through six sets of teeth, like the modern elephant, over a 60 year lifespan. And they die after the last set of teeth is worn out. Yeah. And that's just like the saddest thing ever. Their last prune and keel over. Yeah. To me, as a human, I assume they sense this. This is it. Well, that and then they see me stalking with my knife and fork and napkin, because I wouldn't kill a mammoth, I just eat it after it died of natural causes. Oh, well, that's different. Sure. You just waited out until they had a lost his teeth. I'm like a jackal or a vulture. Would herbivore taste better or worse than beautiful? Yeah. Grass fed. All right, Chuck, let's take a break and we'll come back and we're going to talk about where woolly mammoths come from. Came from past tense. All right, we're back. They're going to finish strong, my friend. So, you know, wooly mammoths resemble elephants. Sure. They have a common ancestor. And what's that? There's a very primitive elephantine animal, a type of animal called a provostian. And actually, if you look at the woolly mammoth, the mastodon, some of those old ancient ones, their order they belong to, so I think it goes species, genus, order. No, species, genus, family, order. Yeah. The order they belong to is probacidia, and it's like a bug has a promiscuous proboscis. Same thing. That's basically Greek for nose, I believe. Yes, it is. So the Greeks were just poking fun at their noses. Yeah. And this split off from the 55 million years ago, it split off from the mammalian tree. It's a long time ago. Right. And all this is happening in Africa. The elephant family, the probacidians. Yeah. They all were found in Africa. That's where they evolved. And then they eventually spread out of Africa, up into the Sinai and over into Europe and then up into Asia, just like humans did. Yeah. And I think something like 7 million years ago, the first mammoths developed in Africa. They weren't willie. No, they weren't. And we'll get to why in a second. They were mammoths, but yeah, they weren't willie, like you say. They hung around in Africa for about 4 million years. About 3 million years ago, they started to spread. And then about 1.8 million years ago, the Earth changed dramatically. It entered the Pleistocene, and again, the Pleistocene was characterized with huge dips in global temperature. It'd been a hot house up to that point. Yeah. And all of a sudden, it's like getting cold and there's, like glacial periods and all that. And now the mammoths are starting to adapt to the cold. Now they became woolly and kind of differentiated from southern mammoths and became wooly mammoths. Yeah. There was one in particular, the largest one of all, the Step mammoth, and this sucker was 14ft. And that's always at the shoulder, right? Yeah. Is that correct? Wonder why they don't measure from the top of the head. Because you can make yourself seem taller by lifting your head up. And they would do that. Yeah. Ma'am. Great sense of humor. Delicious. Really uncooperative at the doctor. Right. Wanted to be taller. And this one, they think, originated in northeastern Eurasia and was the ancestor most likely of the wooly mammoth. Shaggy, but not woolly. No, it wasn't woolly. And the woolly mammoth actually is the smallest of them. All right. So not only did they adapt to the cold with their woolly coat right. They actually had some really interesting adaptations with their blood. And one of the things they figured out was that the woolly mammoth had this pretty cool system where their arteries. Which carried warm blood from the heart to the extremities. Were really close to their blood vessels. Which brought deoxygenated cold blood from the extremities back to the heart. While the fact that the arterial blood vessels were close to the veins means that the warm blood would actually warm the blood in the veins on the way back to the heart. Pretty neat. So that the heat never really made it out of the core. It kept the core very warm, which is important. And it meant the extremities were very cold, which is much less important. As long as you still have blood flow, as long as you have socks. Right. And then they also had this hemoglobin that could so hemoglobin clumps on the oxygen and delivers it throughout the body. Right. Yeah. Well, it takes a little bit of heat energy to get the hemoglobin to let go of the oxygen. But you want as much heat energy as you can possibly have if you're a wooly mammoth on the steps. Right. So they figured out, get this by taking 43,000 year old wooly mammoth DNA, isolating the genes that expressed hemoglobin that led to the expression of hemoglobin, and then inserting it into E. Coli bacteria and getting the E. Coli to manufacture wooly mammoth hemoglobin. And then analyzing the hemoglobin. And the researchers are saying, like, if we had a live well, if we built a time machine and went back in time 43,000 years and took blood hemoglobin from this wooly mammoth, it would be the exact same substance. We've brought back wooly mammoth hemoglobin. And from studying it, they found out things like it required less heat energy to release oxygen, so thus conserving more heat. Well, they're not the only ones, either weren't there a lot or they speculate at least there are a lot of cold adapted animals that had that same feature. Pretty cool. All right, so we're finally at the smaller wooly mammoth, right? Yeah. They're the smallest of all the mammoths yeah. 400,000 years ago. And the first one of those was actually found in Siberia from a botanist named Mike Adams. And these dudes, they were widespread. They went as far as modern day Ireland and then across the Bering Land Bridge. Sorry, the Bering Strait, was it bearing land bridge, yeah. The streets, the water. Yeah. And then they roamed the east coast of the United States and up into Canada and down into Mexico. Yeah. They went west in the United States and west. Pretty far west. They did, yeah. Okay. West and a little bit south, because at the time, some of the glacialization would come as far south as, like, covering Chicago entirely in a glacier. So they were a little further south. And they loved the Great Plains because the Great Plains were still the Great Plains back then. They would eat the grasses, but they also coexisted or shared the North American continent with another type of wooly mammoth that was indigenous to North America. The Colombian or Jefferson mammoth. Yeah, that's the one that actually spent time in Mexico and Nicaragua. I. Think as far south as Nicaragua. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Of course, the weather was different back then, like we said, but still, I mean, they were closer to the equator and it was definitely warmer. So they were a different species of woolly mammoth or of mammoth, but they were pretty closely related. And I think they were actually descended from the Step mammoth as well. Yeah. And they didn't need the weather just to be one thing. They were pretty adaptable. Not completely, as we'll see, because climate change probably did factor in, although not specifically because of the temperature. Well, we might as well talk a little bit about that. Are we there yet? What's? The temperature? Well, no, like, maybe where they went. Oh, well, it's a big mystery. Like I was saying, no one knows. Case closed. Well, they have some ideas and one of them is climate change. But like I was hinting at, not necessarily like the temperature was something that affected them. It was more how the temperature affected their habitat. Shrinking their habitat is what ultimately, I think, had a lot to do with it. I think so, too. So there are a number of theories. One was like meteorite. Never found any evidence for that. No. Maybe like a superbug got them. Doubtful. Yeah. And so it came down to humans overhunting them, which is called the overkill hypothesis, and then climate change hypothesis. And I think of those two, if I had to choose, I'm with you. I think the climate change is what got them. I think it's a little bit of both. I think ultimately it is too. But I think humans finished off something that was a process that was already inevitable. Yeah. Here's what happens. Here's a bad thing. If you're a mammal or any animal, it's a bad mammoth day. If your ecosystem is shrinking and your available food source is shrinking, and you continue to move where that is, you become isolated and your area is smaller and smaller, and that eventually is super bad news. What you want if you're a wide ranging mammal like that, is actually a big one that needs, like, \u00a3400 of food a day. Yeah. You want to be able to travel a long way to get as much food as you can. Sure. Because you're eating 20 hours a day. But if your habitat is shrinking that's what I meant. Habitat, not ecosystem. Although that works. Yeah, definitely works. So the climate change melted those glaciers, sea levels rose, and then the land shrank became covered with water and the wooly mammals. Things are looking so good. Well, plus, not only that, with the changing climate and the warming of the Earth, or the climate, I should say, their food supply, not just the amount of food, but the type of food available, diminished. Like I said, you couldn't take them and put them on the Siberian step. Today, it's different plants that are there. They weren't necessarily adapted to eat those things. You need certain enzymes to break down certain types of sugars and stuff like that to gain energy from it. And as their food changed, they got to be in big trouble. Yeah, that's the climate change hypothesis. The overkill hypothesis says that somewhere around twelve to 13,000 years ago humans showed up in North America and right about the same time, within 1000 years, we're no more wooly mammoths. And not just wooly mammoths. There's something called the North American Mega fauna extinction, where mammals, I think, 90 genera, so not even species, but genera the next level up in classification. A lot of animals, 90 of them weighing over, I think \u00a390 44 kg, just all died off around the same time. Yeah, I think we covered this in the extinction. Yeah, sure. Sounds really familiar. Or like the clovis one maybe. Yes. And a lot of people say, well, clearly it was humans and it makes a lot of sense, it has some legs. A lot of people do think humans did show up around that time in North America. The fact that it happened so quickly and then the point that I think about the overkill hypothesis that really drives the home to me, although I'm more on the climate change bandwagon, is that these North American mammoths would not have co evolved with humans like African ones did. So the African ones survived. The elephants down there, they survived because they co evolved with humans and came to understand that humans are dangerous. The ones here in North America wouldn't have been innately afraid of humans and seen them as dangerous and so could have been easy pickings for humans. The big problem is there's not that much evidence of humans mass hunting these things. Well, maybe not mass hunting. They have found like the spears and things in mammoth bones. The clovis point is what we were talking about earlier and we do know that they use their fur and they like to use their ivory and they like to eat them. But the problem with that is that a mammoth would have fed a lot of people, especially in that cold weather, this natural preservation going on. So they could have lived and use that like a single adult or mammoth for a long time. Which means they're not going to be hunting like five of them a day. And there's also evidence that they were revered somewhat by their cave art. So there are people who think that maybe it was like the buffalo with the Native Americans. Maybe they respected it and they managed it. Yeah. And didn't say, hey, let's kill millions of these over a span of months. Right. This is a very Euro American mentality. I mean, that's where the buffalo almost went, except was when Euro Americans came over and said let's start shooting. That doesn't mean that that's what Native Americans did. Right. And plus, also there were plenty of mammoths that went extinct. The mammoth species in the steppes and in Europe went extinct, too. And there are humans over there for a long time. Yeah. So it's not like the humans suddenly arrived everywhere. Right. But yet the mammoths died out at about the same time throughout the world. Yeah. Plus, mostly people hunted smaller game, small to medium game back then. Dogs, maybe, but Ma'am, it was probably an intimidating kill, first of all. And what do we do with all that stuff? Yeah, so, I mean, it's like we were saying, it is a mystery still exactly what happened to them. Again, my bets on climate change. But obviously humans did kill, or at least butcher mammoths. Yeah. But I don't think they killed them out of existence. I agree. And then that leads us to that last point, though, about bringing them back. Good idea, bad idea. I mean, it's always a bad idea, isn't it? I think so, but you can also make sense. But do they? I mean, that's a pretty fatalistic view. Like, you can also make the case that if you believe that humans hunted them to extinction, well, then maybe it's our moral obligation to bring them back if we can. That's true. And that's the view, I think of. Remember the 10,000 year clock episode we did? Oh, yeah. So the Long Now Foundation, they're big into that, the people who made the 10,000 year clock, they're big into the de extinction movement to bring in things back. And there's two ways you can do it. You could take as much viable DNA from a woolly mammoth as you can get your hands on and insert it into an Asian elephant DNA. Yeah. Little IVF treatment. Yeah. And then make a hybrid, and then over time, you breed out the Asian elephant stuff through a breeding program until you have a pure woolly mammoth, and then the other one is to take the nucleus of a woolly mammoth cell and implant it into an embryo. Well, that's IVF. Sorry. Yeah, you're right. And then you've just cloned a woolly mammoth after. It just stays in a poor elephant who's like, what are you guys doing? I wonder if the elephant, when it was born, would be like, whoa. Right. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. This is a woolly mammoth. You guys realize? Rosemary's, baby. Yeah. So I think there's groups working on both of us, and the ethics are questionable. Sure. Because I'm sure it's going to sound preposterous to some people, but what about the elephant mom? Is she going to care for this baby? How is it going to affect her? How will it affect the baby? It raises a lot of questions. And plus, also, everyone is pretty much in agreement that there's no way this thing could ever live in the wild. Right. You'd be breeding them to live in captivity. Yeah. To charge people money to come see them. Right. I agree with you? No, I'll eat them. But so we teased about the mastodon earlier and you found this was a mental floss thing, right? Yeah. The difference between a mammoth and a mastodon. Yeah, because they coexisted here in the US. The mammoth is not a great metal band, first of all, like Atlanta's own mastodon, who, by the way, our old friend Chris, bass player on my band. He was at one of his kids his kids soccer game, and the lead guy from Acidon was right there. His kid is on the same soccer team. The one with the face and neck tattoos? Yeah, that guy. That's awesome. He was like, I know who you are, by the way. Big fan. That's cool. He's like, yeah, let's talk soccer. Did they? Yeah. Nice. Anyway, they're just like normal people. Sure. They have kids that play soccer, even though he's a metal god. But what does that have to do with the woolly mammoth? Not much. Their teeth is where you can tell the big diff. Is that the only way? These days, it's pretty clear that that's the only way to tell. Well, the hair was a little different and they don't have the high sloping back and the tusks are a little straighter. They look a lot more like elephants than a mammoth does. Yeah, because a mammoth looks elephant time. But it looks like especially when you put it next to an elephant or a mastodon, it looks like a totally different animal. Yeah, agreed. But the teeth is the giveaway the elephant molars. I'm sorry? The mammoth has elephant like molars and they are like cheese graters or like the sole of a running shoe. Yeah, sure. It's used to just grind through some leaves, grasses. Lovely. Right. The mastodon actually the word means nipple tooth or boob tooth, which is a bit of that was a lot of fun on the playground. Nipple tooth. Right. It's because they have, like, conical bumps on their molars that reminded this anatomist from, I think, the early 19th century, George Cuvier. He said, well, these bumps look like breasts, so we're going to name them breast tooth. And also, I've been out alone with my journal for far too long. Help. Yeah. You got anything else? Wasn't there something about Thomas Jefferson? He was into the mastodons. They were actually the mastodon. He collected them. People put the bones in. He was convinced that there was a mammoth still alive out west. Remember in our Lewis and Clarke episode? Yeah. That was one of the reasons Lewis and Clarke went out west, was to look for Mammothing, because he was just convinced they were out there. He thought they were meat eaters, though. He did. I think he was part of that train. Ben Franklin was like, I think you could probably also eat branches and stuff, which is what mastodon date. But the mastodon became, like, the earliest symbol of America and American, like, yeah, let's mess stuff up. Let's kick some butt. It came from the mastodon and the mastodon also. This is like 100 years before they were finding mammoths for the first time. The idea of extinction before that, everybody was like the Earth was created 6000 years ago. Everything was in the Garden of Eden. There was a flood. So we lost some things, but everything else is exactly the way it's supposed to be. Yeah. And the mastodon teeth that they were finding and eventually the bones proved that there were things that had lived before that were not alive any longer. And extinction became a scientific thought. Amazing. That's a nice little cherry on top. Told you we finished strong. We did, didn't we? By we, I mean you. US, chuck us. If you want to know more about mammoths, you should type that word in the search bar@housetepworks.com. And since this is the search bar, it's time for listener mail. Hey guys. This is my first time emailing because I was waiting for an opportunity to tell you some stuff you should know. It finally came today in the form of book talk with Josh and Chuck. Remember that? Yeah. In the moonwalk episode? I think so. And you said that I had said previously I didn't give a book much. I was like, I don't think I said that. Turns out I did say that. I just don't remember because I rarely read books that I'd have to put down. Right. I want to say also one other thing. I'm sorry. The guy who wrote Head Full of Ghosts, Paul Trembley, I believe somebody tweeted to him and said, hey, you got a mention in this episode. And I guess he went and listened. He's like, that was great. And now I know how to moonwalk nice. And then he tweeted some time later he was like, okay, it's been 8 hours and I still am not moon walking. Well, and I guess they're making a movie out of his book with Robert Downey Jr. Oh, wow. It's going to be big. Well, I wonder if that was because of us. Probably they were like, we're kind of on the fence. And then they heard our moonwalk episode and they green lighted it. Wow. So guys, I was excited to hear you rambling about books. Something I love dearly. And a nice change of base for movie talk with Josh and Chuck. Not that I don't love movie talk or booze talk with Josh and Chuck. Yeah, those are the only three things we talk about. You talked about how long you give a book before you give up on it. Did you know there is a rule for that? Nancy Pearl's rule of 50. Have you ever heard of this? No. She says, I assume Nancy is a woman. If you are younger than 50, you should read 50 pages before deciding to give up. Okay. And for every year older than 50 that you are subtract one page. So 51, 49 pages and so on. At 100, you judge a book by its cover, literally. How about that? Who is this? Nancy from Hart? Nancy Wilson? No. I'm going to see Hart soon, though. Are they opening for somebody, or are they headlining? Their Cheap Trick is opening. And Joan Jet are opening for heart. Awesome triple bill. That's a heck of a bill. Yeah, I can't wait. So Nancy Pearl says, yeah, 50, and then subtract the page, because obviously, life is getting short. You don't have enough time to waste time, so by the time you're 100, you just look at it and go and you could peel over just looking at a book. You could also, if you haven't heard of Nancy Pearl, she's great. She's probably the most famous librarian. Oh, okay. There you go. I love that. At least. Well, is there more than one famous librarian? There's got to be. If she's the most famous, then there has to be other famous ones. John Dewey, inventor of the Dewey Decimal System. That's right. She says at least she's up there. And she even has her own action figure librarian. Action figure. That's awesome. I just got my Masters in Library Science last year, so I'm a Nancy Pearl fan. Multiple professors of mine have had the action figure in their offices. I love this story. Chris Paulette. He wanted to become a librarian. Oh, yeah. He deserves an action figure, too. Oh, I bet. He's probably got a Nancy Pearl one. Former host of Texas and early hosts. Co host of Stuff You Should Know before I snuffed him out. I didn't, like, kill him. I just chloroformed him, and he woke up in a library. Yeah, like, I guess I'll get a degree. Yeah, that's exactly how it went. Anyway, I hope this email wasn't too long. I thought you'd like to know about the rule of 50. All the best erica in Boston. PSCU. In Boston in October. Right? Thanks a lot. We're doing a show there. We sure are. On October 27 at the Wilbur Theater. Yes. We can still get tickets at S-Y-S Klivecom. Bam. Thanks for the set up, Erica. If you want to set us up to plug our shows, we'd love that. You can tweet to us at SYSK podcast. You can join us on Facebook. Comstepychannelo. You can send us an email to Stuff podcast at how. Stefworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web stefiesheato.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit housetofworks.com." |
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