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b: yeah. b: and the money is also another issue. how you're going to pay for it. a: right. b: at that stage of life you only have so much money left b: and i guess it's not exactly fair for the younger family members to have to put it in their savings. |
a: yeah. b: i mean it is kind of fair, b: but it's also not fair because they have their own children to raise. a: sure. b: so it's another problem. |
a: and you probably, if it were you, you probably wouldn't want someone choosing a place for you to live based on lowest price. b: right, b: right. b: so, it, it's just so complicated anymore, i think b: people outlive their savings. |
b: and, with medicine being the way it is, you're extending life where sometimes the quality of living has gone down b: and they're not necessarily enjoying life anymore. a: yeah. a: well maybe that's the purpose of the nursing home is to have them go someplace where they can see that it's not worth continuing. b: it's... |
b: i think the retirement home idea's a nice idea. to go and find older people and with similar interests and someplace to stay a: yeah. b: and cause like if your spouse died, all alone, it'd be nice to go someplace with people similar to you. to have friends. a: right. a: yeah, |
a: i've known quite a few people that have, uh, gone to retirement communities. a: i don't know if they have them back there a: but here in california and in b: okay. a: uh, so, what do you think, uh, about putting the elderly in a nursing home? |
b: well, i think that it, it varies on on the individual basis. a: huh. b: uh, sometimes it is, there is no alternative. a: uh-huh b: uh, you do not have, uh, uh, family available or family that's, uh, |
b: you may not even have family that is, uh, uh, in, you know, who are around. a: that's true. a: yeah. b: so, sometimes it's not an alternative. a: huh |
b: and i think, uh, but i think also, sometimes it can be, uh, a benefit if it's for a short time. b: sometimes in a nursing home a: uh-huh. b: uh, especially if, if it's after an acute illness. b: to get over a, |
b: or to rehab after, uh, an illness. a: that's true. a: i never thought of that. a: yeah. b: sometimes you know, sometimes the nursing homes are good for, uh, just short periods of time. |
a: that's true, a: until they get over that hump of whatever it is they're dealing with. b: uh-huh. b: because too often the acute hospitals will, are sending them out much faster than what they're really able to. a: yes. |
a: they really are. a: they don't like to keep them longer than a week. b: so so there is some good to it. a: yeah. b: uh, sometimes too, it's used as a dumb job. |
b: you know the well the families do not necessarily uh, know what to do with them a: what do you mean? b: and they don't want to take the responsibility b: so they will put them in a nursing home. a: yeah, |
a: that's true. b: so you see, uh, b: there's both sides to it too. b: what do you think? a: yeah |
a: and it depends on how, how sick the person is too. what you're capable of, like if you have a family to take care of, you know, of your own b: yeah. a: yeah, a: uh, i would personally like it a: if my parents were to get ill, i would like to take care of them at home and if i had the money with some help. |
a: that's not always possible. b: that's true. a: but, uh, to the best of my ability, i'd like to do it until it gets impossible b: i think that's also where you're going to have a lot of people who are going to, b: it's there's not a choice, it's because, it's not economically feasible even to put them in a nursing ho... |
a: right. a: uh-huh a: yeah. b: so that, that option sometimes is not available if they do not have the, uh, either medicare or insurance to cover it. a: that's true. |
a: yeah. b: so, a: but i think nursing homes can be good. a: it just depends on what kind they are. a: you know, you need to check them out ahead of time. |
b: yeah, b: and then there's also some that are set up for specialties a: uh-huh. b: uh, i know some. b: unfortunately, some elderly have to go to or have, i guess it's alzheimer's or where they wonder or, or, uh, confused or have some mental problem |
a: uh-huh. a: yeah, a: that they're b: and you need a special nursing home for that. b: you need one that has a unit that's locked where they are not able to get out and roam around |
a: yeah. b: and you need people who are trained for that type of problem. a: right. a: who know what they're doing with that. b: yeah |
b: so, so there's different types of nursing homes i think. a: yeah a: well, my, uh, grandmother's not really in a nursing home, but a retirement home that also has a nursing home sort of attached to it. a: and she really liked the idea of, of moving there. a: she's not ill yet |
b: uh-huh. a: but, uh, she worked there as a volunteer for about ten years a: and then she decided that, uh, she's eighty five years old, that eventually, you know, she she doesn't want her family taking care of her and being a burden. a: she's very independent. a: so she's in this nursing home. |
a: it's out in the country a: and, uh, she really enjoys it right now because she doesn't have to wash dishes or cook b: gives her a little bit of her own independence a: uh-huh. b: but she still has, uh, a security there. |
a: right. a: some support. a: and then there's also, uh, sort of a wing for those people that do get sick a: and, what i like about it and i think she likes about it is that she knows everybody there now a: and then, so if she ever does become ill, uh, it will be like family around her. |
b: that's right b: and i i've seen some of them like that too a: yeah. b: and also they have a lot of, uh, activities going on for the ones who are more active. a: uh-huh |
a: yeah. b: so it's not sort of like, uh, uh a sick place. a: uh-huh a: no, a: she loves it. |
a: she has a great social life a: and she travels a: and, uh, it's in, in the in the mountains a: and it's beautiful a: and, uh, i, i hope that i have something like that when i get older |
b: yeah b: i, i think, i think the, uh i think that the decision that needs to be made though on nursing home has to be a joint one between the, uh, elderly uh, person who's going in and the family that's going to be, uh, effected by it a: uh-huh a: uh-huh. a: oh definitely it's, |
b: and, uh, you know, sometimes it can, those those choices can be made in advance b: and sometimes the choices because of the nature of the illness when they're, a: right. a: so, uh, do you happen to be working for a large firm? b: well, it's about three hundred and fifty people. |
b: i guess that's not large compared to some, b: but it's big enough. a: uh-huh. b: and they have a, they don't have any kind of pension plan where they contribute anything b: and i wish they did. |
a: yeah. b: you know, they have a four o one k, b: but i put all the money into it. a: uh-huh. b: they don't add anything. |
b: what about you? a: uh, i work for a fairly large company. a: it's got eight thousand people. b: uh-huh. a: and, uh, we do have health insurance. |
a: we don't have four o one k plan, stuff like that, a: but we do have, like, retirement. a: they kind of match up to, you, a: if you put six percent, they match up to six percent, a: and then the rest is whatever you want to put in. if you put more than that or something like that. |
b: oh, that's a pretty good deal. a: it's not bad. b: now, how long does it take for your contribution to vest? a: god, i don't know. a: it's probably a long time |
a: i'm sure it's not till like twenty-five years, thirty years. b: yeah, b: the place i work at's, health insurance is kind of expensive. b: it's like hundred bucks a, a month or something for a family. a: yeah. |
a: huh, well, i guess what we have is like a what they call a flex benefits plan where you, you get like a certain amount of dollars a: and then you spend it on a cafeteria of whatever you want or need. a: otherwise you can, uh, guess you can put, also put money, hold money back and then either use or lose it and that ... |
b: i can send in a, uh, can send in a request for payment b: and they'll, uh, and they'll send me, a check for the amount they withheld. b: that's pretty good, you know. b: it's, uh, it saves a third off on taxes or something. a: yeah |
a: well, it depends on which company you work for. a: i know that, like, the, the, the one plan that everyone seems to be in, in my place is, uh, you know, you, uh, think you call it plan d a: another example like i guess it's alzheimer's deductibles are really high, a: it's like fifteen hundred dollars, a: but if you ... |
a: so, it, someone did start a cost benefit analysis, a: and ends up the best is to take a high deductible and, and take a loss, whatever happens to be, if you happen to be a healthy individual b: yeah, b: i guess, b: uh, on the other hand, you know, i, i had a similar, had a similar health plan |
b: and, uh, one of my kids was in a car accident b: and, uh i had, wound up having to pay for, you know, a bunch of doctor visits and stuff out of my pocket because of, you know, no, no insurance policy happened to cover it, which is, a: um. a: really? a: you mean, not even your, your, your car insurance? |
b: well, it, it got all screwed up because i had a high deductible on the health insurance, no fault here, b: and, and i had a high deductible on the on the, uh, on the car insurance b: and then you know, we just goofed up the medical insurance and the car insurance and stuff and blew it a: oh, that's too bad. b: oh, w... |
a: yeah a: uh, well, i don't know, a: i think other than health insurance, i think, uh, you know, an extra week of, uh, time off would be nice. a: i only get two weeks. b: yeah, |
b: yeah b: my place you get two weeks when you start b: and then every, every year they give you an extra day until you've got four weeks. a: oh, that's nice. a: we don't get them till, till your seventh year of service till you get an extra week. |
b: aye. b: that's a long time. a: yeah, a: it's, uh, b: yeah, |
b: especially in the kind of engineering job i'm in, you know, companies don't stay afloat that long b: and, and they, a: uh, with the telecommunications type of company, supposedly you, used to be much more stable. a: it's a lot less stable than it used to be. a: they used to have job security |
a: but now they don't. b: so you work for bell or something like that? a: yeah, a: it's the bell corps, which is, uh, b: right. |
a: yeah. b: right. a: so, i don't know, a: it's, it's, uh, no longer a: so that's what, |
a: i think it's still based on the old model of, a: and, and now they don't, uh, b: a lifelong job security b: telephone pioneers of america, a: yeah. |
b: all that stuff, huh. a: yeah, a: but they, no, no longer a: i don't think so. b: right. |
a: uh, hearing a a: there's always, they're always laying people off, which is another benefit that you can have other than salary is trade that off for security. b: is it, i mean, does it, b: they must have pretty good severance, though, huh? a: oh, i don't know, |
a: we don't, we haven't been doing layoffs. a: we've been doing, uh, down sizing with, uh, getting rid of extra layers of management. a: and, uh, i don't know what they do for those people. b: mean the, the, the management they get rid of? a: some of it, |
a: yeah. b: um. a: there's too many manage, too many chiefs and not enough indians a: but, b: oh, they, they put, |
a: well, have you ever served on a jury? b: no, b: i've not. b: i've been called, b: but i had to beg off from the duty. |
b: and you? a: well, i was called a: and then i was not chosen. b: um. b: well, i was, i was, uh, originally chosen primarily, i think, because i was a young fellow |
b: and they tend to view the younger fellows as more likely to hand down a guilty verdict. b: i don't know why. b: something i picked up in a psychology class some time ago. a: oh, really? b: yeah, |
b: it's that the younger they are, they tend to be more conservative for some statistical oddball reason, b: and they kind of liked me. b: i looked and all that stuff b: and they, b: i don't know what they saw in me, |
b: but they saw it. b: but, uh, back to the issue, is, uh, b: i don't know, b: at times i feel that a unanimous decision is warranted, especially in cases in which there's no smoking gun. b: but, there, too, there are also cases in which i feel a majority rule might be acceptable, particularly, i think in civil cases. |
b: in criminal cases, i'd like to see the unanimity remain, b: but in civil cases, i think a majority rule by, by jury would be sufficient. a: well, uh, could you give me an example of a case where you think that? b: well, in a criminal case, say one in which, you know, there is, like, say assault or some such. i think... |
b: a majority rule, i think, would be more in line as there is no real smoking gun in the civil cases. b: i don't know if i'm making any sense or not. a: well, i mean, i think, a: are you just trying to say that criminal cases are more, uh, tangible a: or, |
b: yeah, b: often there's more incriminating evidence. b: like, for instance, say, uh, b: and also, too, i think i'm, i'm tempering this and the fact that the consequences are much more, uh, serious in a criminal case. a: well, do you think that, that in a civil case, if there was majority rule, that it would be easy f... |
b: um, well, i really can't say for certain, truth be known. b: uh, as it stands, there's, there's many ways and means by which a person can be set up, both, uh, in a uh, civil and criminal case. b: i mean, the, uh, documentary, the thin blue line pretty much demonstrated that. b: you know, i don't know for, if you're ... |
a: i'm not. b: a, uh, fellow when he was much younger, uh, was tried and convicted and sentenced to death. b: fortunately, in his case, the death penalty was revoked b: and, uh, so he served out his, his sentence until it was discovered by a fellow who was making a documentary called the thin blue line that this guy ha... |
b: and he was exonerated. a: well, i mean, i think that there are many cases in our judicial system where justice is not served. b: yeah, b: many laws, but little justice. a: say, |
a: but, uh, a: and i also think, just like you were talking about before, why you were chosen to be on a jury that, uh, the, just, the process of picking jurors is not always objective. b: oh, certainly not, b: certainly not. b: and you know, they like to think that they're getting someone who's objective in all this, |
b: but they're really looking for someone who will pretty much fulfill the lawyers' desires. b: you know, the, b: because you get up b: and, and they ask you a few questions, b: both sides do, |
b: and then you, you're either challenged which is, b: you know, each attorney can use that as much as they like b: or, i think it's a limit now, b: they probably have a limit now, b: but, they pretty much go through that, |
b: and then you have to give a reason to the court why you can't serve. b: for me, it was financial hardship, b: so. but, onto the thing, uh, i was never aware that juries had any say on recommending sentencing. b: it was always my impression that the justice himself, or herself, had the final say. a: okay, |
a: so i guess it starts recording now. b: okay. a: okay. a: i don't know, really know that much about the recycling in this area that we're in. a: we live in the saginaw area. |
b: saginaw? a: uh-huh. a: and i'm not real familiar with, uh, anything that, a: i, a: fact as far as i know, the school doesn't have any kind of programs or anything out here. and, uh, or the grocery store or anything in this area, |
b: really? a: yeah. b: the b: we live in plano b: and they started off recycling by, uh, putting the, |
b: i think at each wal-mart, they had some recycling dumpsters and things like that, which now, b: i guess the, uh, city is, has bought the big green trash cans b: and, uh, we, they have a recycling truck that comes around now b: and you separate your glass and paper and, uh, aluminum a: uh-huh. |
b: and you set it out b: and they pick it up b: and it, it works real neat. b: they seem to be having a real good response. a: really? |
b: so, a: that is pretty good. a: i'm, we're originally from another state a: and i know in the state we were from that they did that similar type thing. a: the city brought ought, you know, set separate trash cans |
a: and you separated your stuff a: and you put it in there a: and they took it, you know. b: did they, did they, like on bottles, did they give you a so many cents back for for cans a: i don't really know. |
a: i don't really know, a: they, they started after we moved down here a: and so i, i'm not really familiar. b: yeah. a: i just know that, uh, my in-laws up in, up in oklahoma, that's how they do, you know, they pick it up, |
a: but i don't know if they get a, get anything back on it a: or, do you get money for it? b: no, b: i just, i noticed it b: iowa and other cities like that, it's a nickel per aluminum can. |
a: oh. b: so you don't see too many thrown out around the streets. or even bottles. a: really b: you know, all kinds of bottles they, they, they really charge people to, i guess when you purchase them and, and then when you turn them back in. a: right. |
b: i i remember the old days as a kid where bottle was a nickel. a: right. a: and now, now most of them are throwaway. b: right. b: so, maybe that's one thing they can do. |
a: i think now they're a lot more expensive than that. a: uh, i bought some cokes the other day in the the little bottles you know, b: uh-huh. a: and i think the bottles were like, i know they were at least ten cents apiece. a: i to at home, |
a: i was like, god, how much were those bottles you know? b: yes. a: and, it was, they come in like, uh, eight and, and eight and ten packs, you know instead of six packs b: right. a: and, uh, and they were like, it was like two dollars and something for the bottles. |
a: you know, i was like god almighty, a: it costs more for the bottles than it did for the cokes. b: that was my brother's first job in a grocery store. b: he was in the bottle area a: in the |
b: it's pretty dangerous out there, you know, when they fall over, b: but but it's, uh, it's quite, a: right. b: they say that the green glass now, that there's a big glut of green the green glass, a: oh, really? |
a: of green glass. b: yeah. b: it's amazing. a: well, out in this area, they really don't have anything. a: now, i know that like minyard's and places like that around like arlington and fort worth and a lot of those grocery stores, they have like four different bins out front. uh, different colors for different things... |
b: uh-huh. b: right. a: but i, i do know some of these places were doing that a: and they discontinued them because people were coming and dumping their trash in them. b: right. |
b: yeah b: it's, b: i notice the plastic have sort of faded away, the milk jugs. a: yeah. b: it, it's, |
b: people just, b: they, they really don't, b: uh, there's too much labor involved i guess to separate the stuff. a: yeah, a: more than it's worth. |
b: it's, b: i don't know, b: it, it can be, b: it's not as easy selecting, you know, clean junk as they say. a: right. |
a: well, who wants to clean their junk before they throw it away b: that's right, b: that's right. b: it's like washing the dishes before you put them in the dishwasher. a: right, |
a: uh, yeah. b: we all do it b: well, it was nice talking to you. a: it was nice talking to you. a: i have no idea how long this is supposed to last or anything. |
b: oh, i think, i think two or three minutes is fine. a: is that it? b: yeah. a: okay, a: well, it was nice talking to you |
a: and i, i guess i'll do this for, i was doing this for, actually, i was going to do it for my son so that he could, uh, he, he's in high school, so that he could make some money. b: right. a: uh, but then it has my name on it, a: so i'm like, okay, a: i'll sit down here and call it |
b: well, we're doing it for a church choir b: so, a: oh, are you? b: yeah. a: oh, that's interesting. |
b: so, a: that's nice. a: well, b: well, thank you. a: thank you. |
a: bye. b: bye-bye. a: so. have you heard about saturns? b: seems to be out of i've heard some about saturns. b: i don't know a lot about them. |
b: i haven't been over, uh, to a dealer to look at them although i did see something in tonight's paper that said that their, uh reliability is rated to be equal to that of the, i guess, the japanese cars. a: ooh, that's great. a: actually that's kind of the type of car that i, i'm thinking about we might get. a: satur... |
a: and, uh, supposedly, they've got great customer satisfaction from what things i've heard. b: um. yeah, b: i've heard a lot of people like them. b: uh, yet i don't know whether i would buy saturn or not at this point. b: i'm kind of, |
b: my card and, uh, desires tend to be pretty picky b: and so, uh. a: well, like what? b: well, let's see. b: i i like cars that are designed with, with human beings in mind, |
b: and that's not just the driver and the passenger b: but that's the person who's working on it, b: cause i do almost all my own maintenance and, uh those types of things. b: and i found that while you can find some cars that are comfortable to ride in, uh, finding a car anymore that's, that's fairly easy for me to wo... |
a: yeah. b: and, uh, a: yeah. a: i've got a sixty-five mustang a: and i, and i do the work on, most of the work on that myself. |
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