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Speaker A: Welcome to Bankless, where we explore the frontier of dexs on Solana. Today we're talking to Meow from the Jupiter project, which is perhaps the super Dex, the super exchange on Solana. We'll talk about what that is. Earlier this week, the Jup token, the highly hotly anticipated token out of Jupiter, has act... |
Speaker B: Banklessation. |
Speaker A: I'm here with the founder of Jupiter named Meow. Meow, welcome to the show. |
Speaker B: Hey, how's it going? |
Speaker A: Nice to meet you, meow. So you just had a gargantuan token launch. A $6 billion app just launched a token coming in at $6 billion. Diluted value. Yeah. New value into the world. Congrats on that. How does it feel to be post launch. |
Speaker B: Man? Thanks for asking. No, nobody asked you that yet. No, no, seriously, thanks for asking, because no one has really asked me yet. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: So thanks a lot for asking. We know that the team has worked really hard, right? And certainly the funny thing is that we do control the value. We don't. In fact, if you ask me and stuff, it's like, okay, it's like the market gave us this value. Then on our end, I think we're incredibly lucky, unfortunately,... |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: I mean, lots of people are like, I mean, obviously, I wish they kept their joke, right? But lots of people like, hey, I could pay for my meal. Hey, I could buy. I could finally buy my iPhone, right? And I feel like, I feel like that kind of. I mean, obviously we hear a lot about, like, no, they're playing a ... |
Speaker A: I think Solana, as an ecosystem, is learning to how to do airdrops. We had the geodo drop. This is like the second big drop after Jito. There's been others as well, but really, these are kind of the two big ones. And so I'm. One of the things I've been curious about is just learning about how Solana app team... |
Speaker B: Okay, if you don't look under the hood, just look at the car. We are a full service exchange. We have swap very limited orders with DCA. We have hubs, and we serve the gateway to Solana, onboarding to Solana. And we also have a launch pan, which is just launched. So that's what I see on the outside. And what... |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: In a much more effective way. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: And one big difference to Ethereum is this. So Ethereum's constraint is gas fee. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: We know that. So on, that has a different set of constraints. |
Speaker C: Right? |
Speaker B: It's like the account, the account size limit is smaller and different. So it's like basically how do we kind of like constantly navigate that? So how do we kind of like build a system that's extremely optimized, right. For like Solana's like, you know, speed and cost, but sometimes like, you know, handle it... |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: You know? Yeah. So, and, yeah, so I think a number of things. Yeah. So, so that's what's the end of it. Yeah. |
Speaker A: On the surface, you have these different ways of swapping. You have the swaps, a limit order, dollar cost averaging and perps. These are all just ways to make a trade happen. And then under the hood you said that it's a Dex aggregator. We have Dex aggregators on Ethereum. They do exactly what you say. They f... |
Speaker B: So three different ways, right? The first way for the swap limit on this year. There's no liquidity for the purpose. We have liquidity. Actually, we actually have one of them. We actually have one of the most largest by volume in Defi. Our perks did about 1.4 billion in volume last week. |
Speaker A: Okay, so Jupiter hosts its own liquidity for its purpose products. |
Speaker B: Yes, precisely. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: You know? Yeah, precisely. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: And then, and then for Launchpad. And for Launchpad, we get, we source liquidity from teams. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: To host on the platform. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: You know, and then, and also, obviously we also host the airdrop as well. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: For people as well. Yeah. So, yeah, so, and I think I would say this, I think we are extremely so. And by the way, we really, I think one thing that I'm very proud of at Jupiter, right, is that we really push the limitation of Solana to a limit. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: For example, there are a few things that, for example, Solana in the past had this problem where transactions can only be so big when they send the transaction in. And they implemented lookout tables. So we're the first to implement lookout tables, we're the first to implement priority fees and first to impl... |
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I definitely want to lean into that. But really just to round out the liquidity question, the swaps and the limit orders, where do those, where does Jupiter source its liquidity if it's not everywhere on Solana? So there's other like amms or other order limit orders on other apps and then Jupiter... |
Speaker B: So that, so that's a few. There are actually a range of. It's actually interesting. It might be interesting for your audience, right. Because on Swanna you also have for example, you know, stick. Stick and sticking, right. So for example, if you, if you go, if you go from so. Right to stick. So liquid sticks... |
Speaker C: Marinate. |
Speaker B: So. Right, so, um, Jupyter also integrates something called sanctum, which essentially allows for immediate staking and unstaking. So on Jupiter, you can immediately go from a very large sole order to a very, very large to the very large liquid. So in the same transaction, so you rush through the Emms and co... |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: Yeah. So I think that's actually something quite interesting. What Jupiter does, right, is that we actually spend an incredible amount of time and effort, right. Trying to. Okay, I'll put it in. We are aware the Amms take off their training rules, right. Because they build and build and build, but they're no... |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: So I think sometimes they break. So we work with the team to really try to fix them and everything. And because a lot of these systems are very novel. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: You know, so they, so we work with them a lot. So under the hood. So if you look under, if you look at, if you look beyond under hood to the people working under the hood, right. I think you will see, you will see a team that is like very, very committed, you know? Right. And I mean, it's not me, by the way,... |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: You know, like, they are very committed to making sure that the whole system works as well as possible. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: You know, that takes, that they really understand that every single detail about the amm, you know, and take how integrated everything. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: And we had the same amount and we had the same level of dedication to our products. Right. Order swaps and DCA and pubs, everything. |
Speaker C: Yeah. |
Speaker B: So that's, that's. I think. I think that's what. Under the hood. Yeah. Okay. |
Speaker A: So you were about to get into it, and then I wanted to go back and just, like, tie off that liquidity question. But I want to ask about how does Jupiter leverage Solana? Solana has unique properties that no other blockchain has. You know, it's extremely fast. It's got some parallelization to it. Uh, what are... |
Speaker B: I I mean, the, the most obvious one is cost. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: You know, it's like, um. Like do, like it's cheap to execute a complicated trade on Solana, you know? |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: Um, it's very, it's more. Okay, so, so I will say. I would say this, right. It's like, besides the, um, besides the technical capital, right. There's also ecosystem. So Ana actually has a very, very well developed ecosystem. And so it's actually two things. So you have a lot of different kind of emms and wit... |
Speaker A: One of the big stories about Jupiter was that there was no vc funding. It was bootstrapped just from you and from the team. Can you talk about the genesis of Jupiter? Like how. How did the idea get started? How did the project get started and when did it get started? Tell us about the Genesis story. |
Speaker B: Sure. So actually, so actually, so let me go, let me go way back, right. So we started out as a. So actually I did a lot of stuff in Ethereum, right, as well. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker A: Pretty typical. Everyone, everyone generally has their start, you. |
Speaker B: Know, like, and also I also started WTC, you know, when I was like working them with Bitgo and everything. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: So I was actually really active in Ethereum, you know, I just didn't talk that much. And anyway, any, anyway, anyway, we started a project called Mercurial. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: And then mercurial project started as well. And then that that project took funding. That project took funding. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: And then, and then over time, that ensured the project didn't do. Didn't do that well. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: You know, and didn't do well. And then eventually what happened was that, and what happened was that we started, we started, and from there we started Jupyter as a new project, as a completely new project, while Mercurial became Meteora. So now with a project called Mitora. So it's also doing extremely well ... |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: And then it had a token as well. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: And then it transitioned. And then in about, and then in about February 2023, we took a snapshot. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: You know, and then we took a snapshot. And then now 5% of total drupe supply goes to mercurial stakeholders. Okay? |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: You know, while 100% of the circulating supply of mitorae goes to the mercy holders. Yeah. A snapshot taken in 2023. Yeah. |
Speaker A: Okay. So there were, there were some other applications, some other startups that you started before Jupiter. Eventually you pivoted into Jupiter and then. Would you call it a pivot? |
Speaker B: No, no, no. It's a new project. Yeah. But the original project became etora. |
Speaker A: Right. |
Speaker B: You know? Yeah. So I mean, I mean, we documented all these things in exclusivating detail. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: In many different places, you know. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: But I think, I think eventually we were able to. It was actually, I don't get me wrong, it was a long process. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: But I think eventually we were able to come up with we were able to kind of like, I believe, and it's my personal belief. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: And certainly I think a lot of people appreciated it to create, I think, two projects, Jupiter Mitura. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: You know, that had a lot of value. |
Speaker C: Right. |
Speaker B: You know, and we were able, I think we, I think when we. I think. And be able to find that value. Right. To the original mercy holders. Yeah. |
Speaker A: Okay. Okay. All right. So where did the idea, the inspiration for Jupiter come from and how did the team form? |
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