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Speaker E: Yeah, so there are a few most important aspects that we're working on. In the same theme of creating access for users, we are taking restaking natively live on some of the l two s working with a couple of partners there who can offer native restaking for Kelp Tao on l two s directly so users don't have to br... |
Speaker A: Okay, so just taking that same relationship that you built at stator, instead of hey, stake with stator via ledger, you are saying, hey, restake with Kelp via Ledgere is a partnership that is underway. |
Speaker E: Yep, yep, absolutely. And the third most important thing that we are focusing on is actually creating some, creating some interesting products and use cases for avss because those. So the AVss are going to be a very important and critical part of the Eigen layer ecosystem. So we've been running some experime... |
Speaker A: Beautiful. Amit, if people are peaked about kelp Dow and they want to learn more, where should they go? |
Speaker E: So they should just simply log into kelpdao xyz you can find all information about kelp dao smart contracts are security which is the most important thing along with option to stake or restake your assets. |
Speaker A: Beautiful. Where did the name kelp come from? |
Speaker E: Kelp is this algae that powers this entire underwater ecosystem and we believe restaking is going to be such ecosystem which is rich and supports a lot of dapps and applications. So hence the name kelp. We want the RSC token to kind of nurture the entire ecosystem. |
Speaker A: Beautiful. Love it. Amit thank you so much. Banknotation. We are here with Daniel from Swell. Daniel, welcome to the show. |
Speaker G: Great to be here. Thanks for the opportunity. |
Speaker A: David Daniel, I think swell might be the earliest, the oldest of all of these projects. You came onto the world of staking first, before liquid restaking. Talk about the beginnings of swell, the inspiration to build swell. And then we'll get into the pivot, into lrTs. |
Speaker G: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So just a quick background on myself. My name's Daniel. I'm the founder as well. Originally, my background has been a mix of finance, technology and innovation. And then really went down the crypto rabbit hole a little after the sort of ethereum, ICO went into a reading of austrian ec... |
Speaker A: Yeah. And the timing, I think, was pretty interesting for you guys, because you guys, like you said you guys were going to build an LST, but then you're pretty, like, fortuitous and in the way. And when Eigen Lair was born, if you will, for then you'd be able to take that advantage, all of the deposits into ... |
Speaker G: Yeah, absolutely. I'd say, like, generally speaking, we're still sort of early ish in the, like, evolution of lrts generally. I think that LRT design will continue to shake out as Eigen layer moves through its various stages in this roadmap, with stage two, stage three, or m two, m three, respectively. And s... |
Speaker A: Beautiful. And that's when twelve will become like one unified system and be able to inject all of its liquidity from its LST into its LRT. So like bringing the advantage of being early into the world of native. Of restaking. Right? |
Speaker G: Exactly right. |
Speaker A: Beautiful. Okay. What would you say is the competitive advantage of swell? What does swell bring into the world of LRT? Is that what's your guys strategy? |
Speaker G: Yeah, absolutely. I think just generally in terms of it from an advantage perspective, I think the fact that we spent a lot of time thinking about Ethereum staking like on the beacon chain side, at first principles level for such a long time, is a competitive advantage. And also our understanding of Defi, wh... |
Speaker A: Beautiful. That was. That was a lot. Wow. Um, one of the things that you touched on is about just making sure managing risk while also integrating with the AVss. Right. And kind of the idea that I've had about LRT's, it's all about maximizing exposure to yields while minimizing risk. Right. Like how much ext... |
Speaker G: Yeah, I think generally speaking, the strategy is really about trying to quantify and qualify what operators to work with and also what avss as well that those operators will be opting into, and then understanding not only how those interact, but also like the underlying assets of the restaking pool itself. ... |
Speaker A: What are you guys working on right now? Like, what is on the near term roadmap for swell? And then just overall, what would you say in the swell community? Are people excited about? |
Speaker G: Yeah, definitely. I think the key new term things that we're working on is LTG. So we're getting busily ready for that. The other thing is governance and like Dao operations, which will come part of the token being live. We've got a flow with defi integrations as well, that we want to have for our LRT, inclu... |
Speaker A: Well, you guys have been around for a while because again, you guys did the LST before even like, re staking was even a thing. So you guys have grown a community, which I think is one of the kind of unique things as well. You guys have actually had the time to collect a bunch of people who are now, what do y... |
Speaker G: Yeah, I think the vibe of swell culture is. I think a lot of people wanted the restaking it early and we told them, look, we can't get it on the first one. We didn't, we didn't make it to the first whitelist, but we'll be there for the second one. So I think the spot community is really invested in restaking... |
Speaker A: Beautiful. If people want to go and open up like the technical documents or just read a higher level landscape about swell, where should they go? |
Speaker G: Yeah, they just go to our website, swell network and then just jump into the docs section and then, and if you have any questions, feel free to jump to the discord. The teams always happy to answer any questions and take on any feedback. |
Speaker A: What about you, Daniel? Where can they follow you? |
Speaker G: Yeah, you could just follow me on, on Twitter. My handle is Daniel. Swell underscore beautiful. |
Speaker A: And we'll get all those links in the show notes. Daniel, thank you so much. |
Speaker G: Thank you so much, David, appreciate your time. |
Speaker A: Break this nation. I'm here with Lucas Kaczynski of Renzo. Lucas, Chris, welcome to the show. |
Speaker F: David, thanks for having us. Excited to talk about Renzo and what we're up to. |
Speaker A: Hell yeah. Let's talk a little bit about you first. Who are you? How did you come to be at Renzo? What's your quick crypto background? |
Speaker F: So I've been in the space full time since 2018 1st, joined the Tezos foundation and was what a company called Tokensoft and then a founding contributor to a project named Moonwell, which is a lending protocol. Earlier, over the summer, summer of 2022, a group of us got together and started just brainstorming... |
Speaker A: Beautiful. And how the team come together. Who did you, how did this team form? Who are the other founders and team members? |
Speaker F: Yeah, so the contributing founders to Renzo. We all know each other. So there's three of us, James and Krathik. I was a portfolio company for Krathik when he was at a fund named Woodstock. And James previously co founded Tokensoft. So when I worked at Tokensoft for two years, I reported directly to him. So w... |
Speaker A: Beautiful. Let's go into a little bit of that realization that you had about just the aligning of the incentives between the users, the liquidity and the avss. I really like that as an entrance point. Let's just keep, keep going down. That conversation shed a little bit more light about just like the problem... |
Speaker F: Yeah. So when you look at Eigen layer and you take a step back, theres a lot of noise right now, round points and everything else. But at its core, Eigenlayer has AbS's as you guys done a really good job explaining what they are. And there are services that other projects are going to be using, mostly roll u... |
Speaker A: Okay, I really like this. So, we have capital on these roll ups, mainly ETH, usually ETH stem stables, too, but ignoring the stables. And what you're saying is that you can either put your ETH in Eigen layer, or you can put it on the layer, too. And so right now, this thing, there's a tension here, because a... |
Speaker F: Yeah, so you're spot on. We're trying to close this loop because what's happening right now, that TVL has to get bridged back to Mainnet, and the roll ups are losing their. Their TVL, uh, their users want access to eigen layer. So we are going to provide that. Um, easy eth will be natively minted on each of ... |
Speaker A: So that's like a mantle eth, for example. Is that kind of what you're alluding to? |
Speaker F: Exactly. So like if you, if you look at mantle, Meath could get deposited into Renzo on mantle. You get easy eth back on mantle. But if they also have native Eth, you could also put that into Renzo and you still get easy eth back. And the reason that's really important, it seems like this slight differentiat... |
Speaker A: Okay, so the strategy here from Renzo is you guys are just using layer twos as like your top of capital funnel into the Renzo liquid restaking protocol. Are there any other tricks up your guys lever? Is that the main differentiator or what else would you like to bring onto the table here? |
Speaker F: Yeah, so we're starting off with Mainnet. So today you could go bouncer uni v three curve pool. There's a pendle pool and there's a couple other integrations in the pipeline. And then we're branching out to create the funnel, a bigger funnel for users to be able to actually access Eigen layer. And we're the ... |
Speaker A: Beautiful, beautiful. Okay, Lucas, what is near term on the roadmap that you want to highlight? What is getting users excited about Renzo? |
Speaker F: Yeah, the biggest thing is essentially what we're talking about right now. So in a couple weeks here, you're going to see Renzo launch on arbitrum and on BNB chain. And in the coming weeks, you're going to see a half dozen other l, two announcements come out. Whether it's bass, whether it's metis, whether it... |
Speaker A: One last question before we tie this off here. What about becoming a validator in the Renzo system? Is this closed? Is it open? What is the future of that look like? |
Speaker F: Yeah, so the way Renzo is going to market, it's following a similar playbook that you saw Lido do a few years ago where there's a smaller set of operators, but they're extremely high quality. So right now, figment and P two. P are the two validators that are staking and will be restaking the assets deposited... |
Speaker A: Sure. Beautiful. Lucas, if people are peaked about Renzo, where should listeners go to find out more? |
Speaker F: Yeah, just go to renzoprotocol.com dot. You could restate directly from Mainnet. It's literally one click super easy. That's we try to make it easy with easy eth. |
Speaker A: Beautiful. Awesome. All those links will be available in the show. Notes. Lucas, thank you so much for joining me. |
Speaker F: Thanks, David, for having us. |
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