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True | audaxxx | null | Exactly. I think some people are using ORMs for the wrong reasons. ORMs are just an _interface_ to your database.
Disclaimer: Not an interface in the UML-Java-Professional-OOP sense of interfaces. Just an interface. | null | 0 | 1316260742 | False | 0 | c2kj1qu | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj1qu | t1_c2kiwwi | null | 1427611460 | 3 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | madewulf | null | Thanks ! I'm glad to hear that. | null | 0 | 1316260899 | False | 0 | c2kj1ys | t3_kgjcg | null | t1_c2kj1ys | t1_c2kfyue | null | 1427611463 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | audaxxx | null | Then the django ORM is the wrong ORM for you. Use SQLAlchemy with Elixier for example.
That what I tend to use in my projects. | null | 0 | 1316260951 | False | 0 | c2kj21c | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj21c | t1_c2kiqen | null | 1427611464 | 0 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | day_cq | null | mongodb? | null | 0 | 1316261000 | False | 0 | c2kj24a | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kj24a | t1_c2kj0hz | null | 1427611466 | -10 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | kamatsu | null | Er, All problems in NP have been proven to reduce in polytime to SAT. You can construct this reduction given a description of the turing machine to solve the problem in NP. So, seeing as this reduction has been found for all problems in NP, I don't see how you could say that the transformation is not easy to find - it's trivially easy to find. We've already found it. | null | 0 | 1316261049 | False | 0 | c2kj26q | t3_kgfhb | null | t1_c2kj26q | t1_c2k7a32 | null | 1427611467 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | otakucode | null | There are many different learning modalities, and some people just don't get as much out of reading at others do.... but, given the explosive success of the Internet, which is primarily a reading-based medium, the number of people who can't get much out of reading really isn't all that high. It's hard to judge if kids don't want to read if what you're seeing is really 'thinks everything is as vapid and boring as the stuff they've been permitted to read so far' or 'knows all the stuff they actually want to read is forbidden to them'. | null | 0 | 1316261051 | False | 0 | c2kj26t | t3_khf6j | null | t1_c2kj26t | t1_c2khh3d | null | 1427611467 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | AnomalyNexus | null | >Nothing can save you on a computer you don't trust.
Except maybe double authentication systems.
I knew the risks & judged them acceptable given that it was a fairly harmless account. End result was some dude sent a few free SMSs to his GF & they appeared to come from my phone #. | null | 0 | 1316261083 | False | 0 | c2kj28a | t3_khtwb | null | t1_c2kj28a | t1_c2kgrwl | null | 1427611467 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | mhweaver | null | Maybe it's a racing game and they need to make sure the race conditions are all set. | null | 0 | 1316261157 | False | 0 | c2kj2c5 | t3_khip6 | null | t1_c2kj2c5 | t1_c2khoym | null | 1427611469 | 38 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | kamatsu | null | >Part of the rationale is that non-deterministic finite automata can be transformed into deterministic ones (Kleene's Theorem) -- so definitely "P = NP", for FAs and NFAs, at least.
Whoa, whoa. You've made a serious error here. Kleene's Theorem states that NFAs can be transformed into DFAs with *worst case exponential blowup*. P does not equal NP for FAs, however there is a mapping from nondeterministic to deterministic. | null | 0 | 1316261235 | False | 0 | c2kj2g3 | t3_kgfhb | null | t1_c2kj2g3 | t1_c2k6h0a | null | 1427611470 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | 00kyle00 | null | Unicode in the source code is a misfeature and all outside of ascii should be illegal in it (bar literals, and perhaps comments). | null | 0 | 1316261334 | False | 0 | c2kj2lm | t3_kicbo | null | t1_c2kj2lm | t3_kicbo | null | 1427611472 | -12 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | Especially since the Metro browser abandons it, it's an amusing requirement. | null | 0 | 1316261341 | False | 0 | c2kj2lx | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kj2lx | t1_c2kiuf2 | null | 1427611472 | -5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | kamatsu | null | Your NP Hard definition is now fucking correct, but it's worth noting that all NP complete problems are NP Hard - the definition of NP Hard problems is that all fucking problems in NP reduce in polytime to the NP Hard problem. NP Complete problems are just also fucking in NP. | null | 0 | 1316261727 | False | 0 | c2kj389 | t3_kgfhb | null | t1_c2kj389 | t1_c2k21et | null | 1427611480 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | kamatsu | null | How so? It's quite easy to show such things - arguments from information theory, computability, reduction etc. For example, if I prove that solving some problem P would allow me to prove some other problem Q that I know is very hard to solve, that means that the problem P is at least as hard as Q. | null | 0 | 1316261849 | False | 0 | c2kj3f7 | t3_kgfhb | null | t1_c2kj3f7 | t1_c2k5g02 | null | 1427611484 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | kamatsu | null | Then you are arguing on the basis of minor pedantry. | null | 0 | 1316261915 | False | 0 | c2kj3ix | t3_kgfhb | null | t1_c2kj3ix | t1_c2kdmna | null | 1427611485 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | otakucode | null | Whoa, sorry man, I had no idea this was so old... I'm perplexed as to how I came across this post.
Thanks for answering, though. Yeah, I'd asked the question because I know that in some fields it is common for professors to illegitimately steal credit for themselves off of their students work. Fucked up system. I wonder if this makes it so that, in general, if you have a question about a paper and 2 authors are listed its generally a better idea to ask the co-author since the primary one isn't likely to know the topic well enough. | null | 0 | 1316261916 | False | 0 | c2kj3j0 | t3_hdeg3 | null | t1_c2kj3j0 | t1_c2khcp6 | null | 1427611485 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | kamatsu | null | For example, solving a chain of *n* 9x9 sudoku puzzles such that the top-left 3x3 box in puzzle P_2 is the same as the bottom-right 3x3 box in puzzle P_1, and so on for all other puzzles such that the puzzles form a ring.
It's linear time, but with something like 81!^3 constant factor. | null | 0 | 1316262008 | False | 0 | c2kj3o7 | t3_kgfhb | null | t1_c2kj3o7 | t1_c2k59fu | null | 1427611487 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | -main | null | Actually, if you're thinking of the linked list patent that was posted here a while back, it's actually a patent on a [Skip list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_list). Not that that's much better... | null | 0 | 1316262182 | False | 0 | c2kj3ze | t3_khvyw | null | t1_c2kj3ze | t1_c2khtwc | null | 1427611491 | 3 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | kamatsu | null | No, that is not true. NP Hard problems are just able to solve all problems in NP by reduction. You're thinking of NP complete problems. | null | 0 | 1316262198 | False | 0 | c2kj40g | t3_kgfhb | null | t1_c2kj40g | t1_c2k8xvd | null | 1427611492 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | EdgarVerona | null | I may be misunderstanding you: but in your second paragraph, are you saying that you think that teachers should be paid less for what they do? Just trying to get clarification on your opinion in this matter.
Though I see what you're saying in the first paragraph, and you make a good point concerning the reason why the pay is low currently. But doesn't it perpetuate when people of low quality are selected as teachers? And wouldn't they pick a more skilled person to be a teacher if more skilled people were applying? And at that point, wouldn't less skilled applicants begin to realize that they're not going to be chosen for the job? It feels like a chicken-and-egg scenario: they're paid less because less skilled people occupy the position, but less skilled people occupy the position because more skilled people can be paid more elsewhere. The cycle has to be broken somewhere if change is to be made. | null | 0 | 1316262252 | False | 0 | c2kj43g | t3_kgbzq | null | t1_c2kj43g | t1_c2ke4m2 | null | 1427611493 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | zzzeek | null | ORMs automate the construction of SQL but should not decide what kind of SQL to emit. Hibernate mostly meets this criteria as HQL allows you to control the structure of the statement very closely. | null | 0 | 1316262481 | False | 0 | c2kj4hh | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj4hh | t1_c2kimst | null | 1427611498 | 3 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | kyz | null | No. JWZ [said it about regular expressions in 1997 in alt.religion.emacs](http://regex.info/blog/2006-09-15/247), but [he was repurposing a quote he'd read about sed](http://regex.info/blog/2006-09-15/247#comment-3085). | null | 0 | 1316262488 | False | 0 | c2kj4hy | t3_ki52y | null | t1_c2kj4hy | t1_c2khm9p | null | 1427611498 | 7 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | pointy | null | I'm teaching (or trying to, anyway) a group of 12-15 year old kids "web programming" by leveraging [jsfiddle.net](http://jsfiddle.net). It's nice because there's very little "floppy formatting" waste-of-time stuff, and lots of immediate gratification. Click "Run" and your silly paragraph shows up in red or purple or whatever, and some silly JavaScript mouseover effect does what it does. | null | 0 | 1316262543 | False | 0 | c2kj4lc | t3_khrn6 | null | t1_c2kj4lc | t3_khrn6 | null | 1427611499 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | EdgarVerona | null | Hmm, is it described here? http://anathem.wikia.com/wiki/Mathic_Society
I don't picture something secluded and exclusionary to humanity as that is. What they do would be for the benefit of humanity, and they shouldn't be sheltered from humanity itself (nor should they be brought in by birth or by some right: it would be a position selected by meritocracy from pools of applicants): just from the need to participate in our economic system, and instead be motivated by factors other than greed for the benefit of mankind.
Again though, this is all on a level between speculation and daydreaming on my part. | null | 0 | 1316262568 | False | 0 | c2kj4mt | t3_kgbzq | null | t1_c2kj4mt | t1_c2kc38j | null | 1427611499 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | zzzeek | null | [All non-trivial abstractions, to some degree, are leaky.](http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/LeakyAbstractions.html)
ORMs should automate and apply consistency to work, not hide it. | null | 0 | 1316262597 | False | 0 | c2kj4oi | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj4oi | t1_c2kiohg | null | 1427611499 | 8 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | EdgarVerona | null | lol! | null | 0 | 1316262597 | False | 0 | c2kj4om | t3_kgbzq | null | t1_c2kj4om | t1_c2kaedo | null | 1427611499 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | Andomar | null | The first company I worked at literally went bust because after 2 years 60% of development time had to be spent maintaining the ORM.
But I've never won an argument against ORM. New developers can't seem to resist its call.
| null | 0 | 1316262738 | False | 0 | c2kj4xu | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj4xu | t3_ki83r | null | 1427611504 | 5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | kamatsu | null | I disagree. I use a language (Agda) which makes use of unicode to represent mathematical constructs. It would be much harder to read without it. | null | 0 | 1316262830 | False | 0 | c2kj53p | t3_kicbo | null | t1_c2kj53p | t1_c2kj2lm | null | 1427611506 | 6 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | EdgarVerona | null | Talking to many people in the medical R&D pipeline on the train I take to and from work every day, I certainly feel the same way: those conversations are why I picture the pipeline from medicine equipment production all the way through to R&D, clinical trials, and manufacturing as being part of this theoretical fantasy "world set aside". We talk frequently about the eccentric costs going all the way up the chain, and indeed how - in the end - many potential diseases (even ones where they have a place where they know they *could* come to find a cure quickly) are "orphaned" because there's no profit margin in the creation of the cure.
There is a micro-chasm of this idea that already exists apparently: companies can choose to "orphan" medical research when they get to such a point, and in doing so they reveal their research thus far to academic researchers and schools and such. Usually however, it's generally with the stipulation that the company still gets the profits and rights to whatever ends up being created: which they'll seldom follow up on because the cost of manufacturing and final clinical trials isn't worth curing the disease. And the schools that did the research don't have the money to play in the for-profit pipeline beyond their R&D efforts. | null | 0 | 1316262920 | False | 0 | c2kj590 | t3_kgbzq | null | t1_c2kj590 | t1_c2kfbbc | null | 1427611508 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | yeswecould | null | > It's understandable but you were claiming it's a massive selling point for it.
I never commented on the magnitude of Mono's contribution. Go back, read again.
> Your business logic would not be in the phone.
Why not? I think you misunderstand what business logic is often thought to mean. Business does not refer to money making or accounting anymore, it refers to a core kernel of code that solves the problem domain of an application which can be abstracted away from platform specifics of each platform it runs on. It's code that sits between UI and storage back end. Your business logic does not have to be located in some server, on the contrary, most applications implement their business logic on the client.
> What percent of the MS DevDiv use mono on a regular basis.
Probably none, or some in MSR. Why are you so obsessed about MS employees using Mono? I've also demonstrated that Mono provides indirect value. Unless you are going to counter my claim then I don't see why the discussion of lack of internal usage of Mono not providing value to Microsoft is relevant in any way because Microsoft derives value from Mono in other already mentioned ways. | null | 0 | 1316262999 | False | 0 | c2kj5da | t3_kgl4f | null | t1_c2kj5da | t1_c2kivky | null | 1427611509 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | Nah, I'm being primitive on purpose; bashing MS is fun and never gets old.
edit:
..and regardless; MS could create the most awesome thing ever, but no one even remotely serious (I'm not talking about clueless end-users) would use it anyway. | null | 0 | 1316263014 | True | 0 | c2kj5dz | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kj5dz | t1_c2kizg2 | null | 1427611509 | -19 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | otakucode | null | Perhaps my imagination is just not up to snuff this morning... but I can't imagine a scenario where writing code which automatically generates such crazily nested conditionals would be reasonable. | null | 0 | 1316263072 | False | 0 | c2kj5hf | t3_gk6il | null | t1_c2kj5hf | t1_c1o6g68 | null | 1427611511 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | BobTurbo | null | And what is stopping you writing those corner cases using traditional approaches / raw sql etc instead of spending hours trying to make them work with an ORM? | null | 0 | 1316263139 | False | 0 | c2kj5lo | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj5lo | t1_c2kiq6k | null | 1427611512 | 5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | stonefarfalle | null | > That's exactly what you do in SQL
That proves his point, ORMs are a very leaky abstraction. Any time you mention SQL you have just broken the I am dealing with a collection of objects abstraction.
While I agree with him that no current ORM supports pulling out just the parts you need, I don't agree that that is a fundamental part of ORMs. Filtering a list of items and operating on parts you need is fairly common thing to do with objects. | null | 0 | 1316263237 | False | 0 | c2kj5r1 | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj5r1 | t1_c2khuhq | null | 1427611513 | -1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | niczar | null | > SSL certs? self-signed certs? not the same thing
I obviously meant self signed.
> also, if you're running an intranet with self-signed, that's just fail dude. you should have the servers available to run a CA.
Have you already managed one? It doesn't take that much time ... ONCE YOU'VE SPENT A MONTH LEARNING HOW THAT SHIT WORKS. | null | 0 | 1316263402 | False | 0 | c2kj620 | t3_kgqxt | null | t1_c2kj620 | t1_c2kg5lf | null | 1427611517 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | stonefarfalle | null | And a yes they have eggs. | null | 0 | 1316263492 | False | 0 | c2kj67r | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj67r | t1_c2kipw7 | null | 1427611519 | 4 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | rosetta_stoned | null | > why do you even trying to watch a video in the web browser?
If the only way I can access your information is by downloading something to my hard disk and then running a video player then you're using the internet wrong. Either use it right, or get off it.
Tl;dr: Forcing users to jump through hoops to get your stuff for no reason is bad and just means that fewer people will see what you want them to see.
Tl;dr of Tl;dr: Silverlight is dead already, MS. Stop trying to pretend that it isn't.
| null | 0 | 1316263687 | False | 0 | c2kj6k3 | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kj6k3 | t1_c2kixx0 | null | 1427611524 | 8 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | Seconded. Herp F# derp. | null | 0 | 1316263700 | False | 0 | c2kj6l2 | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kj6l2 | t1_c2kj5dz | null | 1427611524 | -9 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | rizla7 | null | what? 5 minutes (5 days if you wanna get in-depth with PKI)... anyways, that wasn't the point. the point all along which you fail to recognize is that this feature should not be in browsers, or at least should not be a 1-click operation. | null | 0 | 1316263987 | False | 0 | c2kj729 | t3_kgqxt | null | t1_c2kj729 | t1_c2kj620 | null | 1427611530 | 0 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | the_opinion | null | Huh? Many current ORMs support pulling out just what you need, in a number of ways. ORMs aren't, and never have been, and never will be, the abstraction you've inferred them to be. | null | 0 | 1316263987 | False | 0 | c2kj72a | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj72a | t1_c2kj5r1 | null | 1427611530 | 18 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | matthieum | null | A very nice explanation of why Generic Programming is of much broader scope that typical OO (with inheritance). I am afraid though that people that have not had enough Generic Programming exposition (parametric types/dependent types/duck typing) will stay entrenched on their misconceptions. | null | 0 | 1316264035 | False | 0 | c2kj75k | t3_kikut | null | t1_c2kj75k | t3_kikut | null | 1427611531 | 26 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | To clarify: I didn't mean actual variables, I meant design decisions that can vary. Sorry for the confusion. | null | 0 | 1316264039 | False | 0 | c2kj75w | t3_ki52y | null | t1_c2kj75w | t1_c2kibq3 | null | 1427611531 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | matthieum | null | It did include ☺ though... | null | 0 | 1316264147 | False | 0 | c2kj7cw | t3_kicbo | null | t1_c2kj7cw | t1_c2khozj | null | 1427611536 | 42 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | angsty_geek | null | IMO, ORMs are good for specific use cases... The typical "business logic" of "load a user", "load the user's shopping cart", "add a product to the cart", etc. This is repetitious crap. Do you really want to write the same boiler plate SQL over and over?
ORMs are NOT good for complex reporting, where you want direct control of the SQL.
Take a look at SQLAlchemy for Python! I hated ORMs until I came across it.
| null | 0 | 1316264317 | False | 0 | c2kj7o1 | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj7o1 | t3_ki83r | null | 1427611545 | 3 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | angsty_geek | null | Did you write your own ORM? | null | 0 | 1316264349 | False | 0 | c2kj7q6 | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj7q6 | t1_c2kj4xu | null | 1427611546 | 5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | day_cq | null | what do you think your web browser is doing behind the scene? | null | 0 | 1316264390 | False | 0 | c2kj7so | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kj7so | t1_c2kj6k3 | null | 1428193811 | 6 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | julesjacobs | null | Good that it's not a requirement then. | null | 0 | 1316264425 | False | 0 | c2kj7up | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kj7up | t1_c2kj2lx | null | 1428193811 | 4 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | matthieum | null | Which denotes a key difference between scientific oriented languages and others.
I am all for writing programs in english (even though I am french), simply because it makes it easier for all people to understand them. Allowing unicode in literals and comments is common sense, but in identifiers ? It makes the program unmaintainable by anyone not speaking the required language.
So I would hope that "unicode support" would not leak outside the scientific world (and even there, perhaps limit to the symbols that are meaningful). | null | 0 | 1316264432 | False | 0 | c2kj7v0 | t3_kicbo | null | t1_c2kj7v0 | t1_c2kj53p | null | 1428193811 | 9 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | gwern | null | > Wait, have you read the paper?
No. If I had, I would not be quoting Wadler. You can verify this by clicking on the OP and C-f for 'Small talk':
> The author measured time for 49 subjects to build a simple parser in Purity, a language similar to Smalltalk implemented for this experiment in two variants. | null | 0 | 1316264641 | False | 0 | c2kj893 | t3_k7o9e | null | t1_c2kj893 | t1_c2khjpl | null | 1428193809 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | BlatantFootFetishist | null | That guy has bad programming style. For example, comments like this are totally redundant:
// Swap swaps the elements with indexes i and j.
Swap(i, j int)
These variable names are bad:
p := d.pos(end)
What is 'p'? What is 'd'?
[Edit: Those of you downvoting me — please give me a reply and tell me what's wrong with what I say.] | null | 0 | 1316264707 | True | 0 | c2kj8dr | t3_kikut | null | t1_c2kj8dr | t3_kikut | null | 1427611569 | -5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | adolfojp | null | If you're using F# then you've got .net installed. If you've got .net installed then you've got Silverlight. And if don't have any of that installed you can always use the download links. | null | 0 | 1316264754 | True | 0 | c2kj8gq | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kj8gq | t1_c2kiuf2 | null | 1427611568 | 6 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | kamatsu | null | Agda isn't scientifically oriented, but it supports the ability to prove properties of your program. When working with formal verification, the ability to use proper notation is a godsend. | null | 0 | 1316264786 | False | 0 | c2kj8j4 | t3_kicbo | null | t1_c2kj8j4 | t1_c2kj7v0 | null | 1427611590 | 3 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | adolfojp | null | The conspiracy theorist in me is starting to think that posts like yours are paid for by Microsoft to make Microsoft detractors look like idiots. | null | 0 | 1316264920 | False | 0 | c2kj8rr | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kj8rr | t1_c2kiwq0 | null | 1427611573 | 16 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | >Probably none, or some in MSR. Why are you so obsessed about MS employees using Mono?
Because that's what I replying to.
Somebody was claiming they use it and they love it.
>I've also demonstrated that Mono provides indirect value.
You haven't demonstrated that. You just claimed it.
You can keep claiming anything you want. I don't give a shit what you claim.
Show me how many people on the MS DevDiv team use mono and love it. That's the topic here.
| null | 0 | 1316265042 | False | 0 | c2kj8z5 | t3_kgl4f | null | t1_c2kj8z5 | t1_c2kj5da | null | 1427611575 | 0 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | Otis_Inf | null | > It's always tough to argue about these things online without knowing the background of the developers. If you're writing a fairly complex DB driven app (70+ tables, outter joins, bidirectional association of object collections, etc) with non-trivial object relationships (mapping Enumeration in Java, primary keys covering multiple objects, mapping over legacy DB, etc), you WILL run into situations that just aren't well covered by the ORM authors, if they're covered at all.
I've spend the last 9 years full time writing an O/R mapper system and entity modeling designer, and as a member of the small group of people who actually has written a full, mature O/R mapper I can assure you, this isn't true: the only things which aren't well covered by O/R mappers are SQL specific statements which only make sense in SQL space, not in the O/R mapper space. That doesn't mean these statements aren't useful, they're just not used by the O/R mapper system for the task it's used for.
I've seen a massive number of corner cases in the past years, and from what I know from other O/R mapper developers, they have seen the same cases, found similar solutions to them and implemented them in the O/R mapper they're working on, *unless* it doesn't make sense for the *o/r mapper*.
An O/R mapper isn't a system which let's you write SQL in a different way, it is meant to work with entity instances (i.e. the data) on both sides of the gap, i.e. in memory inside entity class instances and in the db in table rows. Sure, legacy databases sometimes make things a bit problematic, but not impossible. The problems which do occur often stem from the fact that the developer tries to persist a deep class hierarchy into a relational database, but that's not how it works. The RDBMS isn't some bucket you can drop data into.
Oh and 70+ tables with compound keys, inheritance and all, isn't complex. Try 1000+ tables if you want to get really overwhelmed with a big domain. | null | 0 | 1316265095 | False | 0 | c2kj937 | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj937 | t1_c2kiq6k | null | 1427611577 | 16 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | matthieum | null | I think of Formal Verification as being scientifically oriented :) It is pretty much restricted to academia. | null | 0 | 1316265100 | False | 0 | c2kj93l | t3_kicbo | null | t1_c2kj93l | t1_c2kj8j4 | null | 1427611577 | 6 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | __j_random_hacker | null | Sorry for the late response, but I had to try and understand a few things better.
I'm basically saying that for any function problem ("Find x such that..."), there's a corresponding decision problem ("Is it the case that...?") that can be used to solve it in polynomial time (possibly using multiple calls to the decision problem solver) iff the function problem can be solved in polynomial time -- is this correct? If so, I think that it makes sense to (informally) talk about a function problem being NP-complete or not, etc., because it's always possible to transform it into a decision problem having the same time complexity. As I said in a different response, my original understanding was that some simplification of concepts was acceptable for Simple English Wikipedia.
Regarding verification, I was implicitly claiming that the answer *to a function problem* is sufficient to check the corresponding decision problem in polynomial time. I realise now that that only holds for function problems whose answers contain the certificate needed for the proof of the corresponding decision problem. Which is quite often the case (e.g. for the function problem "Find a subset of elements that sum to k"), but quite often not, e.g. for optimisation problems, so you're right to point out this mistake. | null | 0 | 1316265201 | False | 0 | c2kj9bb | t3_kgfhb | null | t1_c2kj9bb | t1_c2k342a | null | 1427611579 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | kamatsu | null | Not really, but you don't hear about a lot of its more commercial uses (often because it's pretty hush-hush, government contracts etc.) | null | 0 | 1316265248 | False | 0 | c2kj9en | t3_kicbo | null | t1_c2kj9en | t1_c2kj93l | null | 1427611596 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | neutronicus | null | ...a compiler? If you don't have the best optimizer (like if you have some domain-specific-language that compiles to BASIC - or more currently, Javascript), it's really easy to have generated code explode on you. | null | 0 | 1316265257 | False | 0 | c2kj9fg | t3_gk6il | null | t1_c2kj9fg | t1_c2kj5hf | null | 1427611581 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | uriel | null | That guy is Russ Cox, and that comment makes perfect sense in context given that he is not providing full source but just giving you a sample of the interface.
`p` and `d` on the other hand are obvious from the context provided. | null | 0 | 1316265268 | False | 0 | c2kj9g6 | t3_kikut | null | t1_c2kj9g6 | t1_c2kj8dr | null | 1427611581 | 17 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316265319 | False | 0 | c2kj9jj | t3_kicbo | null | t1_c2kj9jj | t1_c2khozj | null | 1427611583 | 5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | ErstwhileRockstar | null | In sum: use HQL to avoid SQL. | null | 0 | 1316265337 | False | 0 | c2kj9kv | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj9kv | t1_c2kj4hh | null | 1427611585 | 3 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | sleighboy | null | Damn kids! | null | 0 | 1316265393 | False | 0 | c2kj9on | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj9on | t3_ki83r | null | 1427611585 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | Otis_Inf | null | > with unusual associations (bidirectional association of enumerations or compositive keys)
In an entity model, what exactly do you mean with assocation of enumerations? Simple lookup tables? These aren't a problem at all for any o/r mapper, ok perhaps simple ones, but who uses these?
Composite keys are not unusual nor complex/odd to handle for an o/r mapper, I don't really see the problem. Reading your posts in this thread I think you used an o/r mapper which is pretty lame. | null | 0 | 1316265396 | False | 0 | c2kj9ou | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj9ou | t1_c2kirco | null | 1427611585 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | ErstwhileRockstar | null | ORMs like Hibernate are not leaky "to some degree". They are entirely an abstraction leak. There's no part in Hibernate that doesn't leak. | null | 0 | 1316265450 | False | 0 | c2kj9su | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kj9su | t1_c2kj4oi | null | 1427611587 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | mconeone | null | Not true. It's installed native instead of a plugin. | null | 0 | 1316265568 | False | 0 | c2kja12 | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kja12 | t1_c2kj2lx | null | 1427611589 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | babazka | null | Anything that can't be typed using standard English keyboard layout (without Alt+XXX or other hacks) should never be a valid identifier. | null | 0 | 1316265976 | False | 0 | c2kjate | t3_kicbo | null | t1_c2kjate | t3_kicbo | null | 1427611596 | -11 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | greenspans | null | the R naming conventions R kind of disgusting. | null | 0 | 1316266122 | False | 0 | c2kjb5e | t3_khx5g | null | t1_c2kjb5e | t3_khx5g | null | 1427611597 | 5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | gronkkk | null | I'm not so convinced of ORM's at all. I find a few lines of SQL more readable than a muddle of distinct().group_by('blablaba').only('thiscolumn'). Only thing is that it looks ugly in your code, and that you can have security-issues with parametrized sql-queries. For simple queries of the 'get me a couple of objects with names like 'aaa' , or 'look up the information of customer number x', an ORM makes things cleaner. But IME, most ORM's try to do to much, and fail. | null | 0 | 1316266571 | True | 0 | c2kjc6l | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kjc6l | t1_c2kj21c | null | 1427611605 | 3 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | livings124 | null | That being said, single-letter variables are always a bad idea. Searching for them is a bitch. | null | 0 | 1316266603 | False | 0 | c2kjc91 | t3_kikut | null | t1_c2kjc91 | t1_c2kj9g6 | null | 1427611605 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | yellowstuff | null | He sometimes does analogous work at Microsoft, debugging programs broken by OS upgrades. Often the programs use weird, brittle techniques that break complete when the OS changes, even when there are proper APIs available.
One story I remember is that a buggy program tried to get a handle to the console, didn't check for errors, and got an error every time. By coincidence, the error code was the same value as the handle for the console, so the program worked. A new version of the OS changed the error codes and broke the program. | null | 0 | 1316266709 | False | 0 | c2kjcih | t3_khip6 | null | t1_c2kjcih | t1_c2ki07t | null | 1427611607 | 14 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | For some of us proprietary doesn't matter. We're not poor, our companies can afford the licenses if the product is good enough and meshes well with the current knowledge our work force has. :) | null | 0 | 1316266921 | False | 0 | c2kjd0e | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kjd0e | t1_c2kixp3 | null | 1427611613 | -3 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | BlatantFootFetishist | null | >That guy is Russ Cox, and that comment makes perfect sense in context given that he is not providing full source but just giving you a sample of the interface.
That comment is no better than the following classic:
++i; // increment i
>p and d on the other hand are obvious from the context provided.
Code should be written so that it is easily readable to humans. Using bad variable names means that those reading the code have to keep a mental dictionary to figure out what each variable represents. | null | 0 | 1316266950 | False | 0 | c2kjd34 | t3_kikut | null | t1_c2kjd34 | t1_c2kj9g6 | null | 1427611616 | -4 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | asteroidB612 | null | Uhhh... probably because JavaScript is not a real programming language. | null | 0 | 1316266967 | False | 0 | c2kjd4l | t3_kicbo | null | t1_c2kjd4l | t3_kicbo | null | 1427611616 | -23 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | The comments here are fucking rich. You're watching a video for F#, a language that runs on the .NET framework, and you're complaining that is needs the .NET framework to run? ಠ\_ಠ
What happened to the quality of this subreddit? When did the junior "programmers" start joining? If you can only program in one language/framework you suck. Period.
Use the right tool for the right job. | null | 0 | 1316267078 | False | 0 | c2kjdee | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kjdee | t3_kii9z | null | 1427611629 | 27 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | uriel | null | Single letter variables are perfect in many cases (specially for local variables, but not even just that), they are clear and concise and the context should provide all the info that is needed and ofter verbose names can be more ambiguous and confusing than anything.
`for(i, i < 100, i++)` is much more readable than `for(counter, counter < 100, counter++)` | null | 0 | 1316267092 | False | 0 | c2kjdg3 | t3_kikut | null | t1_c2kjdg3 | t1_c2kjc91 | null | 1427611620 | 18 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | gronkkk | null | But it was not specified that he should return that result! The woman has to file a change request! | null | 0 | 1316267142 | False | 0 | c2kjdkv | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kjdkv | t1_c2kj67r | null | 1427611623 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | SigmundAusfaller | null | WinRT is not Silverlight. They are similar but different runtimes, about the same difference as WPF and Silverlight, and if you've ported between the too you know how annoying those differences are.
Code reuse consists of copy source code and modifying all the little breaking changes they made everywhere in the runtime. You can't just use a library from one to the other. | null | 0 | 1316267191 | False | 0 | c2kjdoz | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kjdoz | t1_c2kja12 | null | 1428193808 | 6 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | babazka | null | Name a "real" programming language where ◎ܫ◎ and ☺ are valid identifiers, please. | null | 0 | 1316267275 | False | 0 | c2kjdwq | t3_kicbo | null | t1_c2kjdwq | t1_c2kjd4l | null | 1427611626 | 4 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | livings124 | null | You're right, in things like for-loops they are appropriate. Outside of counters (and the likes), though, bad idea. | null | 0 | 1316267320 | False | 0 | c2kje0u | t3_kikut | null | t1_c2kje0u | t1_c2kjdg3 | null | 1427611626 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | asteroidB612 | null | Or you could use Common Lisp which gets it right and has a sane syntax! | null | 0 | 1316267330 | False | 0 | c2kje1w | t3_khpzu | null | t1_c2kje1w | t1_c2kiqql | null | 1428193807 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | Eh? I thought the browser had no plugins at all, no Silverlight, no Adobe Flash, just HTML5 & JS.
I know Metro apps are Silverlight-based. | null | 0 | 1316267391 | False | 0 | c2kje6z | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kje6z | t1_c2kja12 | null | 1427611631 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | curien | null | I do look at the cert (not every time, but reasonably often). Yes, I actually go so far as to compare the key fingerprint to what I see on a different network (e.g., from home). | null | 0 | 1316267509 | False | 0 | c2kjehq | t3_khtwb | null | t1_c2kjehq | t1_c2kfeai | null | 1427611634 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | IwillReadThings | null | Issues with "proprietary stuff" usually have nothing to do with being poor. It is philosophical problem. | null | 0 | 1316267547 | False | 0 | c2kjekz | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kjekz | t1_c2kjd0e | null | 1427611635 | 10 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | Andomar | null | Yes, that was back in the nineties. But I've seen the story repeat itself since then, with nhibernate, llblgen, and linq2sql and more home brewn ORM's.
After a while, projects that use ORM become so tangled that small changes require large amounts of work. Applications without ORM seem to hold much better over time.
Now I wonder if Reddit uses an ORM... hehe. | null | 0 | 1316267559 | False | 0 | c2kjem6 | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kjem6 | t1_c2kj7q6 | null | 1427611635 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | greenspans | null | you MS faggots need to leave my proggit. development stacks locked into single platform because of greed, aren't welcome | null | 0 | 1316267566 | False | 0 | c2kjemu | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kjemu | t1_c2kjdee | null | 1427611635 | -39 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | bobappleyard | null | Comments preceding definitions are docstrings. | null | 0 | 1316267575 | False | 0 | c2kjenf | t3_kikut | null | t1_c2kjenf | t1_c2kjd34 | null | 1427611635 | 8 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | ikearage | null | The author should read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-relational_impedance_mismatch | null | 0 | 1316267662 | False | 0 | c2kjeuk | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kjeuk | t3_ki83r | null | 1427611637 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | For many, many people, this is a non issue. Do I like the **idea** of something being free and open source, of course! I enjoy Ruby programming in my spare time. Would it actually **influence** whether or not I use a tool, not even remotely possible.
I use what I need. :) Tools bend to my will, not the other way around. | null | 0 | 1316267671 | False | 0 | c2kjeve | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kjeve | t1_c2kjekz | null | 1427611637 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | artsrc | null | > every abstraction ... goes so far in terms of performance, simplicity or capabilities
Good abstractions are simple, leak little, and impose performance overheads which are not significant for your application.
I very rarely reason about C, Java or C# performance (or other behaviours) by looking at the assembly (or byte code). Coding in these languages imposes low performance costs compared to the lower level. All of these provide abstractions which allow me to express my ideas much more simply than the underlying lower level implementations.
Even if you think ORMs are worthwhile, you can't claim they are a good abstraction by these measures. It is typical too have to look at the SQL generated by an ORM to reason about why an index is not being used etc. The amount of leakage varies by abstraction and ORM's leak a lot.
> data outlives the application more often than the other way around, and access to data outside the application
This seems to be addressed by option 2. Use the relational model and don't worry about developing a rich oo model for your domain.
| null | 0 | 1316267725 | True | 0 | c2kjf06 | t3_ki83r | null | t1_c2kjf06 | t1_c2kivip | null | 1427611638 | 9 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | johnwaterwood | null | Indeed, nothing like that in CDI. | null | 0 | 1316267759 | False | 0 | c2kjf33 | t3_khpzu | null | t1_c2kjf33 | t1_c2kiwro | null | 1427611638 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | curien | null | They just completely block anything that looks fishy to them by domain name. Used to be that any domain name with the word "blog" in it was blocked. Any link through an ad network is blocked. flikr and other sharing sites, all blocked. And the blocking is whitelist-based from what I can tell (I've gotten "Category: uncategorized" quite a few times), so some phishing site set up on a brand-new domain would be blocked by default. | null | 0 | 1316267847 | False | 0 | c2kjfb8 | t3_khtwb | null | t1_c2kjfb8 | t1_c2kfdkm | null | 1427611640 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | mconeone | null | Yeah that's what I meant, instead of a plugin as it is now. | null | 0 | 1316267863 | False | 0 | c2kjfco | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kjfco | t1_c2kje6z | null | 1427611640 | 3 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | mconeone | null | Well that sucks, thanks for the heads up. | null | 0 | 1316267892 | False | 0 | c2kjfez | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kjfez | t1_c2kjdoz | null | 1427611640 | 5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | It isn't? When I viewed it in Chrome it told me it needed Silverlight. | null | 0 | 1316267895 | False | 0 | c2kjff8 | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kjff8 | t1_c2kj7up | null | 1427611640 | -1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | dev_bacon | null | Whoa, take it easy. Sure, it's not compiled, but it can be used in plenty of awesome ways. I'd rather write my highly scalable web application in [Node.js](http://nodejs.org/) than C. | null | 0 | 1316267937 | False | 0 | c2kjfiu | t3_kicbo | null | t1_c2kjfiu | t1_c2kjd4l | null | 1427611642 | 0 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | mongreldog | null | You sound very immature or perhaps you're just a bit retarded. From your comments, I can only assume you've had very little or perhaps no real-world programming experience. | null | 0 | 1316268018 | False | 0 | c2kjfpf | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kjfpf | t1_c2kj5dz | null | 1427611644 | 0 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | moreyes | null | Are you really nitpicking on variable names? The post is outstanding for other reasons, not for adhering to a giving coding style. | null | 0 | 1316268131 | False | 0 | c2kjg03 | t3_kikut | null | t1_c2kjg03 | t1_c2kjd34 | null | 1427611648 | 10 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | IwillReadThings | null | For me it is non issue too, I use better tool whenever possible. But I cannot agree with statement that it matters for people because they are poor. Maybe it was just unfortunate use of words in your comment. :) | null | 0 | 1316268152 | False | 0 | c2kjg1w | t3_kii9z | null | t1_c2kjg1w | t1_c2kjeve | null | 1427611650 | 4 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | Interesting video. Looks like the async implementation will simplfy a lot of code.
Don't see any immediate benefits for me with the compiler as a service but I think there are people out there who can make code use of this. | null | 0 | 1316268178 | False | 0 | c2kjg4h | t3_khosg | null | t1_c2kjg4h | t3_khosg | null | 1427611650 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | dev_bacon | null | TIL &#3232;\_&#3232; is a valid variable name in Javascript.
var ಠ_ಠ = "disapproving human";
var ಠಠಠಠ_ಠಠಠಠ = "angry spider";
alert(ಠಠಠಠ_ಠಠಠಠ + " eats " + ಠ_ಠ);
| null | 0 | 1316268207 | False | 0 | c2kjg7g | t3_kicbo | null | t1_c2kjg7g | t3_kicbo | null | 1427611651 | 37 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
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