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IN presenting this Volume to the Public, it seems necessary to say a few words as to the plan of publication, and also as to the nature and arrangement of the contents, especially as there is so very great a difference between this work and every other, which, under a similar title, or professing a similar purpose, has heretofore been undertaken in this country. With regard to the first point, it is, as in the present instance, intended, always to divide the matter, arising in each Session, into two Volumes, the first to comprise an account of the proceedings from the opening of the Session to the Easter Recess, and the second to comprise the proceedings from the end of that Recess to the close of the Session. The nature and arrangement of the contents are as follows: I. Two Tables of Contents, one relating to the House of Lords, the other to the House of Commons, each forming a brief chronicle of the whole of the proceedings in the two Houses respectively; to which Table is added another, pointing out where the accounts and other documents are to be found. II. A complete List of the Members of the Parliament, as it stood at the opening of the Session; as also a List of His Majesty's Cabinet, and certain other Ministers, as it stood at the same time. III. The body of the work contains, in due chronological order, all the Debates Minutes of minor Proceedings, Messages, Motions, Lists of Minorities, &c. IV. In a part of the Volume pointed out by the Table of Contents, will be found all the material Accounts, Estimates, Returns, &c. &c. laid before Parliament; together with a List of the Acts passed during the period embraced by the Volume. V. At the close of the Volume are four Indices; viz., two of the Subjects of the several Debates, the one for the Lords, and the other for the Commons; and two of the Names of the several Speakers, following, with regard to the Houses, the same order as before. The Debates, in this work, are given at much greater length, and with much greater precision, than it was ever before attempted to give Parliamentary Debates. Neither care, labour, nor expense has been spared. Aid of every useful kind has been resorted to; and, in most instances, with perfect success. The insertion of the substance of the minor Proceedings, under the denomination of Minutes, will be found very useful to the parliamentary reader and historian; while the selection and arrangement of the several Accounts and Returns must be of inestimable value to all those who turn their attention to subjects of finance or political economy, to military or naval affairs, or, indeed, to any subject connected with the resources of the country. As the work has, in the short space of half a session, attained to such an extent of circulation, and such a degree of pre-eminence, as fully to warrant the supposition, that it is the only compilation at ail likely to be regarded as an authentic Record of the Legislative Proceedings of the present time, so the Editor confidently assures the Public, that success, however conspicuous and flattering, will produce no relaxation in his labour or his care, but that it will, on the contrary, operate as a stimulus to the attainment of still greater perfection.
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ADVERTISEMENT.
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{"house": "", "speaker": null, "word_count": 564}
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The Speaker acquainted the House that the House h3d, in obedience to his Majesty's command, attended in the House of Peers, to hear his Majesty's most gracious Speech from the Throne; of which, to prevent mistakes, he had himself obtained a copy. Ho then proceeded to read the Speech from the chair, for which we refer to our account of the proceedings of the Lords. (See p. I.) After the Speaker had finished reading the Speech,
The Hon. Cropley Ashley rose and spoke as follows. Sir; after having heard the sentiments expressed, and the statements contained in the Speech which has just now been read, it cannot appear out of season for me to congratulate the House on the state of the country as described in that Speech. The spirit, zeal, and unanimity of all classes, and the voluntary exertions of every branch of the community, are unexampled in the annals of any country, and have so effectually provided for the defence and security of the kingdom, as to set all attempts of the enemy to make any impression on our coasts at defiance. I congratulate this House and the nation in general, that the prosperous state of our manufactures, and the great improvement of the public revenue, will enable the government to adhere to that excellent system of carrying on the war without any material addition to (he permanent debt of the nation; a system which, if closely pursued, will infallibly disappoint the hopes of our foe, and render abortive every attempt of the enemy to destroy this country by delay, and to keep it in a constant state of alarm.—From the exertions that every where appear around us, I think the country in a situation of the greatest security; and it is with conscious pride I have observed, that, notwithstanding the extensive and vigorous stem of internal defence that has been adopted, our arms have been carried abroad against the foreign possessions of the enamy. The valuable islands of St. Lucia, Tobago, St. Pierre, and Miquelon, and the settlements of Demarara and Essequibo, have been added to the British empire. The vigilance and wisdom of the administration which planned the expeditions against them, and the zeal, bravery, the forces, by which such va- 14 luable acquisitions have been made, are entitled to the gratitude and acknowledgments of the country. In the short space of four months such advantages have been gained, as, in every former war, would have been reckoned glorious achievements for a whole campaign.—It is with the highest satisfaction I learn, that a convention has been concluded with Sweden, founded on the firmest basis of all treaties, the reciprocal advantage of both the contracting parties.—It is also matter of satisfaction and congratulation to know, that the affairs of Ireland now appear to wear a favourable aspect, and that the change has been brought about, without the necessity of employing those extraordinary means, which the difficulties of the times render it indispensably necessary to place in the hands of the Irish government. Such conduct must necessarily impress the deluded insurgents of that country, with a just sense of the blessings of the happy constitution, which it was the object of their wishes to destroy. The impartiality and regard to public justice, with which the several trials of the persons engaged in the rebellion, have been conducted, reflects the highest honour on those to whom the administration of the affairs of Ireland have been committed, and entitles them to the respect and gratitude of the country. His Majesty has expressed his hope, that such of his deluded subjects as have swerved from their allegiance are now convinced of their error, and that having compared the advantages they derive from the protection of a free constitution, with the condition of those countries which are under the dominion of the French government, they will cordially and zealously con-I cur in resisting any attempt that may be I made against the security and independence of the United Kingdom. If after such a comparison, any man can be backward or lukewarm in the cause of his country, let him call to his recollection the example of his Majesty, whose whole life ha; been devoted to the improvement and advantage of his subjects, and who has this day come forward and declared to his people his determination, to share with them the danger and the toil. This is not a war merely for military glory, for extended dominion, or for powerful allies; but a war forced upon us by an insolent foe, in defence the constitution, the laws, the religion of this kingdom; in defence of every thing dear and valuable to a people. Our conduct this night, will, I trust, shew, that whatever may be the differences which prevail amongst us in her respects, it is our 15 unanimous resolution to stand firm in the defence of our Sovereign, and of our own civil and religious privileges. This is a resolution worthy of a free and generous people, fully sensible of the distinguished blessings, which they enjoy, a people magnanimous enough to drop all party interests, when the welfare and security of the nation is at stake. I therefore beg leave to move "That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty.—To return his Majesty the thanks of this house for his most gracious speech from the throne.—To assure his Majesty that this house is deeply sensible of his Majesty's paternal care and attention to the safety and interests of his faithful people, in carrying into effect such measures as Parliament has adopted for the defence of the United Kingdom, and the vigorous prosecution of the war.—That it is highly gratifying to this house to reflect, that in those preparations his Majesty has been seconded by the voluntary exertions of all ranks of his people, in a manner which his Majesty has been most graciously pleased to declare, has, if possible, strengthened their claims to his confidence and affection.—That they feel with just exultation, that the measures of the enemy have only served to rouse the native and hereditary spirit of the nation; and that all other considerations are lost in a general disposition to make those efforts and sacrifices which the honour and safety of the kingdom demand at this important and critical conjuncture.—They beg leave humbly to congratulate his Majesty on the impression which, notwithstanding the necessity of principally attending to the great object of internal security, has been made on the foreign possessions of the enemy, by the capture of the Islands of St. Lucia, Tobago, St. Pierre, and Miquelon, and of the Settlements of Demerara and Essequibo; and they are fully sensible of the promptitude and zeal displayed by the Officers employed in the conduct of the operations, by which those valuable acquisitions have been made, and by the forces acting under their command by sea and land.—That they have great satisfaction in reflecting, that the leaders, and several of the inferior agents in the late traiterous and atrocious conspiracy in Ireland, have been brought to justice, and that the public tranquillity has experienced in further interruption; and they earnestly participate in the hope which his Majesty has so graciously expressed, that such of his deluded subjects as have swerved from their allegiance are now convinced of their error; and, comparing the advantages they enjoy under the protection of a free constitution 16 with the condition of the countries under the dominion of the French Government, they will cordially and zealously concur in resisting any attempt, that may be made against the security and independence of the United Kingdom.—They assure his Majesty that he may rely on the readiness of his faithful Commons, to make such provision as may be necessary for the service of the year, and that they are fully sensible of the importance of persevering in the system which has been adopted, of defraying the expenses of the war with as little addition as possible to the public debt, and to the permanent burthens of the state.—They feel a perfect confidence that their fellow subjects will meet with fortitude, the pressure which the present situation of the country renders unavoidable, under a conviction of the indispensable importance of upholding the dignity, and of providing effectually for the safety of the empire.—They return their thanks to his Majesty, for his gracious intention of laying before them the Convention which his Majesty has concluded with the King of Sweden, for the purpose of adjusting the differences which have arssen on the subject of the 11th Article of the Treaty of l66l; and they trust that it will be found at once to uphold our maritime rights, and to produce the effect of maintaining and improving the good understanding which happily subsists between the two countries.—That they are most deeply convinced that it will be, as it ever has been, his Majesty's first object to execute, as becomes his royal dignity, the great trust with which he is invested; and they receive with the strongest feelings of veneration and dutiful attachment the expression of those paternal sentiments which induce his Majesty to consider himself as embarked in one common mon cause with his people, and which have determined his Majesty, if the occasion should arise, to share their exertions and their dangers in the defence of our constitution, our religion, our laws, and independence.—They beg leave humbly to assure his Majesty, that these sentiments will not be lost on an affectionate and grateful people, but will animate and invigorate the activity and valour of his fleets and armies, and the zeal and determination of his faithful subjects, to which his Majesty, under the protection of Divine Providence, may safely confide the honour of his crown and all those important interests which are involved in the issue of this momentous contest.—Partaking of these his Majesty's sentiments, and joining with his Majesty in humbly imploring the blessings of Divine 17 Providence, they look forward with a firm conviction that if, contrary to all just expectation, the enemy should elude the vigilance of his Majesty's fleets and cruizers, and attempt to execute their presumptuous threat of invading the coasts of the United Kingdom, the consequences will be to them discomfiture, confusion and disgrace, and that the exertions of this kingdom will be rewarded, not only by the glory of surmounting present difficulties and repelling immediate danger, but by the solid and permanent advantage of fixing its safety and independence on the basis of acknowledged strength, the result of its own tried energy and resources."
Mr. Burland. —Sir, In rising to second the motion of my honourable friend, I find a considerable degree of embarrassment; not proceeding so much from the apprehension of addressing this House, whose indulgence I have before experienced, hut from the momentous crisis in which I am permitted to address you. A crisis, Sir, which whether we consider the general situation of the continent of Europe, sunk and depressed as it is by the predominant influence of one power to the rank and level of a petty German State, or whether we consider the particular situation of this kingdom rearing its head above those clouds of anarchy and despotism which have in succession shed their noxious influence on the globe: in whatever light we view, it, I believe it is a crisis unparalleled in the history of antient, and I am confident unequalled in that of modem times.—At a period like the present. Sir, when preparations are making, the avowed object of which we know to be the destruction of this country, when even at the moment in which I am now speaking, the mediated attack may possibly have commenced on our coasts, I am sure I need not call upon the members of this House for that unanimity on which our salvation depends. Small indeed, I am well aware, is the influence which any argument of mine would produce, but I rely with confidence on the unanimous vote of the House in support of the motion of my honourable friend, because the experience of the last session of Parliament has taught me, that whatever shades of difference there might be in political opinions on speculative or theoretical points, however gentlemen might disagree in their sentiments of past measures, or of proposed plans of defence, yet, whenever the welfare of the King, the country, or the constitution, was at stake, this House possessed but one opinion and one voice.—Let us, then, at the commencement of a session, during which it is probable the fate of this country will be decided, set an exam- 18 ple of unanimity to the British empire; let us not by dissentions here paralyze the efforts which a generous and patriotic enthusiasm is making for the preservation of the country.—If, Sir, any argument was necessary in favour of unanimity, from what source could I deduce it better, than from the disunion, the selfish politics, and the lust of partial aggrandizement, which have deluged Europe with blood, and involved the innocent and guilty in one common ruin.—But, Sir, I feel no apprehension of the want of unanimity, either within these walls or without. The moderation which his Majesty invariably shewed throughout the whole of the last war, the disposition which he at all times manifested to conclude a peace on fair and honourable terms, and the opportunity of which he availed himself to accept proposals of peace as soon as they were offered, have convinced the people of the necessity of the present war, and have united them in the prosecution of it. I fear not the want of courage in the people, or of vigour in the Government; but there is a circumstance from winch I confess I do entertain some apprehension; because, if the threatened attack is postponed to a more distant period, it may diminish the energy of the people, and may induce them to despise that danger, which I wish them to view alike without contempt or without dismay; it is from that improvident and overweening security which pervades many parts of the country. There is a language which I frequently hear used, which is in my opinion of so pernicious a tendency, that I have always thought it my duty, both as a magistrate and a man, to re-probate and refuse it. It is a very common phrase in all parts of the kingdom, to which I think every gentleman who now hears me can bear witness, that our present alarms are imaginary, that Buonaparté is as well convinced of the impossibility of invading this country a we are, that his preparations are only meant to alarm us, and to involve us in a ruinous expense. Now, Sir, if those who hold this language would consider the character of the enemy with whom we are to contend, if they would recollect that he invaded Egypt, and carried his arms further in that country than European troops had ever I penetrated before, at a time when he was engaged in a war with all Europe; if they would consider the armament which covers the coast of France from the Texel to the Bay of Biscay; if they would recollect that he has hitherto invariably attempted whatever he has threatened; that humanity, which forms a barrier to the ambition of other men, is no obstacle to his views; that of so small 19 estimation is life itself in his mind, that the sacrifice of thousands nay of whole armies, is no impediment to Ins progress; if they would reflect on these circumstances, I think they could not for a moment doubt, that he will attempt the invasion which he has threatened What the event of that attempt will be, it is not for human wisdom to foresee, but this it may be fair to predict; that if, like the Swiss, the Dutch, or the Hanoverian?, we wait, in a torpid or two confident security, until the enemy is at our gates, we shall share the fate of those unhappy countries; but if, on the contrary, we go forth with the spirit and the souls of Britons, to meet hire on our coasts; if we unite with one heart, and one hand, in defence of our country, we shall drive him back, with disgrace and discomfiture, to those who have raised him to the tyranny he usurps; where, like the Arch Fiend of old, he will return to his Pandemonium, and hear, On all sides, from innumerable tongues, A dismal, universal hiss—the sound Of public scorn. But, Sir, whatever may be the final issue of this contest; however glorious its termination may be to Great Britain, I shall always regret the revolution which it has produced in the manners and constitution of every state in Europe. For, Sir, the habits, perhaps the prejudices, of my education, have taught me to look with a jealous eye on every increase of military power; and I grieve to think, that while the military despotism of France exists, every nation must rely, for the protection of its liberties, not on its civil constitution, but or; its military force. But, Sir, while ibis evil does exist, for I must call it an evil, though, I admit it to be a necessary evil, I rejoice to see the hands in which arms are placed, rejoice to see a rank and file of property, I rejoice that arms are intrusted to those who will be induced by interest, as well as by principle, to use them in support of the laws and constitution of their country. Let me, Sir, draw ii contrast between the military force of the two nations: in the one I see the wretched conscript dragged in chains to fight the battles of his tyrant; in the other see free and independent volunteers rushing in such numbers, that it is necessary tore-strain their ardour, and impossible to supply all of them with arms, to the defence of whom? Of the father of his people, the King of a free country, of the sovereign who comes 20 forth on this, day, and pledges himself to his people, that, in the hour of peril, he will share their exertions and their dangers with them, in defence of our constitution, in defence of our religion, in defence of the laws and independence of his dominions.—Sir, T have purposely avoided entering into a detail of the different subjects I touched upon in his Majesty's speech, because my hon. friend has dilated upon them I in so ample and so clear a manner, that I am apprehensive of weakening the effect of his argument, by endeavouring to illustrate them. Gratitude, however, forbids my passing over in silence, the conduct of the British Navy. Of splendid achievements, indeed, the enemy has given them no opportunity; but the patience and perseverance with which they have continued to block up the ports of France, and the vigilance with which they have watched the motions of the enemy, so that I do not believe the smallest boat has escaped their notice, deserves our highest commendation. The conduct of the hon. Admiral, who commands the Channel fleet, in persevering to hold his station on the coast of France, in defiance of the storms and tempests incident to the season of the year, is above all praise.—I regret, Sir, that I cannot look back to the events which have taken place in Ireland with equal satisfaction. But though the seeds of rebellion have again germinated in that country, yet they have sprung from so weak a root, they have been cultivated by so unskilful a hand, and have been cut-down at so early a period, by the vigilance of government, that I would willingly flatter myself the time is approaching when they will be finally eradicated. If, Sir, we may believe the dying declarations of the leaders of the insurrection, even they were not sunk so low, as to wish for a connection with France, or to be insensible to the horrors of French fraternity; and the trials have evinced, that the deluded people who joined them, were influenced more by former engagements, and oaths imposed on them, than by any conviction of the justice or advantage of the cause they espoused.—I have already occupied so much of the time of the house, that I will not enlarge on the wound which we have inflicted on the foreign possessions of the enemy; while we have detained their fleets, blockaded in their own harbours, and' scarce suffered a single gun-boat to skulk from port to part. At any other period those conquests would have been considered as an adequate compensation for the 21 expenses of a war; but the splendor of these victories is, in some degree, lost, by the very circumstance which ought to make it more grateful to us, because they have been gained without bloodshed; and because the people of these colonies have voluntarily sought the protection of a government, whose mild and beneficent sway, they had before experienced.—Sir, I am now to thank the house for the indulgence which they have shewn, and the patience with which they have permitted me to state my reasons for supporting an address, which L trust will meet the unanimous approbation of this house, because I believe it speaks the feelings of every subject of the British empire.
Mr. Fox. —Sir, I do not rise with the intention of objecting particularly to the proposed address in consequence of the speech which his Majesty has been most graciously pleased to make to both Houses of Parliament; nor am I disposed to dispute the soundness of the arguments employed by the honourable mover, and seconder of the address. I rise merely to advert to two points; one of which is omitted in the speech, and the other particularly alluded to. The point omitted in the speech is the mediation of Russia: a. subject on which I cannot help thinking, the house had a fair right to expect some communication. Lithe course of the last session of Parliament, when I called the attention of the house to the mediation of (he court of St. Petersbourg, a noble Secretary of State (Lord Hawkesbury), not now in tins house, did, as strongly as language can express, pledge ministers as not only ready to accept of the mediation of Russia, if offered, but, if not offered, directly to solicit it. The noble Lord distinctly pledged himself, that Ministers were not only willing to hear the ideas of the court of Russia, as to the best mode of bringing about an accommodation of the differences betwixt this country and France; but ready to state what their own ideas were of the most practicable means of restoring a good understanding betwixt the two countries. *
* "On this ground (said Lord Hawkesbury?), ministers had not only expressed their willingness to receive any proposition from the court of St Petersburg, but they had gone much beyond this assurance. They bad declared their readiness to explain, in the most frank and explicit terms, the views which they entertained on the points in dispute, and the mode which to them appeared the best calculated to bring about an amicable arrangement. No question of etiquette would stand in the way; the whole declaration of ministers had been given in the true spirit of peace, In aid of his Majesty's declaration, an
From all that I have seen, heard, or observed, I have every reason to think that the noble Secretary was sincere in the pledge which he then gave, and that ministers have acted on that declaration. One would have naturally thought, then, that in a speech from the Throne, at the opening of a new session, and after such an interval has taken place, as might afford some grounds of ascertaining how far the application was likely to be successful, his Majesty would have referred to the subject, and put the House in possession of the means of determining how far any negotiations were likely to lead to the result which was in view. I am sensible that this is not the particular day for taking up the consideration of the success or failure of these negotiations; but the information, the want of which I complain of in the speech, will be very necessary, when, oh a future day, it may come to be discussed.—The other point to which I wish to allude, is one particularly referred to in the speech. In that part of the speech which refers to the situation of Ireland, the House are congratulated on the suppression of the late rebellion in that country, and a confident hope is held out of the permanent continuance of tranquillity. From past experience, I cannot easily flatter myself that such a hops will be realized. I can see no reason to think that permanent tranquillity will be established in Ireland while the present system is pursued. In the speech it is asserted, that the leaders of the late rebellion had in view the introduction of French dominion into Ireland, and that the whole plan of the insurrection was founded on the co-operation of a French force, destined to overthrow the British constitution as now established in Ireland. Whatever be the crimes of the men who were the authors of the late rebellion, I wish, in speaking of them, to be guided by justice. But, Sir, have not the leaders of the insurrection most unequivocally disclaimed all idea of a connection with the French Government? Have they not avowed, that they reprobated such a connexion, even with an idea of promoting their own views? Whatever atrocities the rebellion exhibited, and certainly no man
express assurance was given of his readiness to listen to any proposal for restoring the blessings of peace; and he had now to assure the honourable gentleman and the house, that ministers were ready to receive any offer of mediation on the part of Russia, or to offer to the mediation of that power the points in dispute betwixt the two governments—See Political Register, vol, iii. p. 1730.
can think or hear with greater horror of those atrocities than I do: I must contend that it is not just to stigmatize the authors of the rebellion with at all leaguing themselves with the French government, in their views of destroying all connection with this country. A hope is also expressed in the speech, that those who had swerved from their allegiance, were now convinced of their error. It is plain, Sir, that the word here ought to have been wish, and not hope. Under the present system of government in Ireland, it is impossible that any such hope can be rationally entertained; for, without a totally new system of managing the affairs of Ireland be adopted, a hope of the Irish being convinced of their error can hardly be expected. It is not said that another system is to be pursued, but we are only told, that a hope is entertained of the rebels being convinced of their error; thus shutting our eyes to the fate of that country, and the real state of the case. This, I allow, Sir, is not the day on which the consideration of the affairs of Ireland can come fairly before the house, but I should feel that I was not doing my duty to my country, if I were even now to let it be supposed, that there can be any rational hope of the continuance of permanent tranquillity in Ireland unless some measures are resorted to, of a nature very different from those now employed. When we recollect the description given of the general loyalty of the people of Ireland; when we recollect the representations given in the speeches of gentlemen in this house, we shall be careful of attaching much weight to any general representations of the slate of that country. On a subject so important as this is, I cannot think it either wise or safe to trust much to general words. I hope and trust, that gentlemen will keep their minds open for any future discussion which this subject may create. I trust they will not be so far influenced by representations now given, or confide so implicitly in general assertions, as to think future enquiry unnecessary. It is the duty of every man to revolve the matter deeply in his mind, and not to forestall any measure or any decision which may hereafter take place. The members of this home could not feel themselves otherwise than guilty, if they suffered themselves to believe in the continuance of Irish tranquillity, because the country is represented as now contented, and because hopes are held Out that this contentment is permanent.—Mr. Fox sat down with declaring, that he should not 24 disturb the unanimity which there seemed every reason to think would be maintained in the vote for the address.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer. —I rise, Sir, for the purpose of replying to the observations which have been made by the hon. member, on the speech with which his Majesty has been pleased to address his Parliament this day. Although the hon. member is not inclined to oppose the address, and is disposed to entertain a favourable opinion of the sentiments which generally pervade it, yet it would, he declares, have afforded him more unqualified satisfaction, if the mediation of the court, of Russia, whether successful or not, had been explicitly mentioned in the speech from the Throne; and that the allusion to the insurrection in that part of the united kingdom called Ireland, had been couched in other or more guarded expressions.—Sir, the hon. gentleman has stated, with accuracy, the general import of that pledge, which, during the last session of Parliament, was made by my noble friend, the Secretary of State, whom it has pleased his Majesty to promote to a seat in another assembly. My noble friend did certainly declare, as the hon. gentleman has fairly stated, that his Majesty's ministers were ready to accept, not only now, but at any future time, the mediation of the Emperor Alexander, towards terminating the unhappy and unprovoked hostility in which the British empire was involved; and that for the purpose of convincing all Europe, of the equity of their cause, and the pacific nature of their intentions, they would not only accept it if offered, but that they would even condescend to solicit it. Sir, for the information of the hon. gentleman, I will communicate to him and to this house, that that mediation was offered by the court of Russia, and accepted with readiness and gratitude, on the part of his Majesty's servants; and although discussions of the greatest moment were consequently commenced, yet I am sorry to say, that in their progress they did not assume such a shape as to lead to any probability of an amicable arrangement with France. No man can be more concerned than I am, that the interference of that court has not been attended with that success which the hon. gentleman, on a former occasion, seemed so zealous in his expectation of. I am not, however, at all astonished to find, that the hon. gentleman expresses surprise at not receiving more information relative to this subject, nor do I think the regret he has shewn at finding any account of the issue of the negotiation omitted in his Majesty's speech at all un- 25 reasonable. I can assure the hon. gent, and the house, that his Majesty's servants have no wish whatever to withhold all the information in their power respecting the discussions which have taken place. The fact is, however, that circumstances of a nature which I hope may be temporary, but which I will not positively pledge, myself will turn out to be of that nature, did prevent ministers from making a communication to the house. Their wish was to conceal no information which could at all throw light on the subject, but they did not wish that the communication which they made should be imperfect, as it necessarily must have been if made under existing circumstances. Though I will not absolutely pledge myself to make a communication, even if the obstacle arising from the circumstances to which I have referred were removed, yet I can have no difficulty in saying that I should not be unwilling to gratify the house with the information in question, if it appeared to be the general wish of the house that this information should be granted. What I have said on this topic is, I trust, sufficient to convince the house, that the omission of the mediation of Russia in the speech was perfectly justified by circumstances. I will now, Sir, advert to what the hon. gent, said on the manner in which the speech notices the late insurrection in Ireland, and the actual stale of that country. In his Majesty's speech a hope is expressed, that such part of his deluded subjects as have swerved from their allegiance are now convinced of their error, and that having compared the advantages they enjoy from the protection of a free constitution, with the condition of those countries which are under the dominion of the French government, they will cordially and zealously concur in resisting any attempt that may be made against the security and independence of the United Kingdom. I admit, with the hon. gent., that even to the worst of traitors justice is a debt which is due, but do not see how, in this instance, any injustice has been done to the leaders of the late rebellion in Ireland. The hon. gent. contends that it is unjust to attribute to the leaders of that rebellion any design of introducing French dominion into Ireland. I cannot admit that the passage in question will fairly admit of such a construction. It is merely intended to convey this idea, that the deluded part of the population of Ireland, who might be disposed to employ French aid in destroying their connection with this country, would be diverted from their views by contemplating 26 the contrast betwixt the condition of their own country and the countries now groaning under the miseries of French domination. I have heard it said, and I see no reason to doubt it, that the leader in that insurrection, previous to the judgment of the court being pronounced on him, expressly declared his abhorrence of any alliance with the French government, and advised his deluded countrymen to consume the grass under the invader's feet, rather than suffer their native land to he polluted by the footstep of a French soldier. It may be allowed that some of the persons making such declarations were in circumstances which lead us the less to doubt their sincerity. I will even concede to the hon. member, that some of the declarations might be true, but if it be meant to assert that none of the leaders of the late Irish rebellion were inclined to court an alliance with France, I must be permitted most peremptorily to deny such a position. I have the best means of knowing that such assertions are founded in gross falsehood. Let it be recollected too what happened during the rebellion. Let it be recollected that many of the leaders, though they had no idea of introducing a French government into their country, were not indisposed to admit French aid to enable them with more prospect of success to prosecute their own views. They were willing to admit this at the hazard of what they considered as a contingent, but what I must ever consider as a certain evil, the evil of being compelled to contend against French dominion, even after they had succeeded in separating themselves from this part of the empire. But let this be as it may, let the views of the Irish be as separate as possible from any notion of French alliance, my position is, that the contrast of their own condition, and that of those nations which the French government has subjugated, would induce them at all events to resist the common enemy of the civilized world. This contrast would, I am persuaded, operate as the strongest inducement for them to abstain from the prosecution of views which can only expose them to destruction. The hon. gent, says, that in the speech, instead of the hope expressed of such an event, it would have been better if the word wish had been introduced. Sir, I will tell that hon. gent, and also this house, that the persons whom his Majesty has called to his government, have not barely the wish, but a rational and well-grounded hope of the establishment of general and permanent tranquillity in that 27 country. Sir, I state with the strongest satisfaction, and with no little exultation, that the conduct of his Majesty's government has operated a very salutary and material alteration in the sentiments of the majority of the people of that country. But the hon. gent, says, it is impossible to expect the continuance of tranquillity in Ireland without attending more particularly to the real situation of the country, and unless some plan of removing existing grievances is resorted to. Whether it would be fit at all to argue the question of the state of Ireland in the present state of affairs, I shall leave to the wisdom of the house to discover. For my own part, I am not aware of the possibility of such a discussion at this moment being productive of one solid advantage. On the contrary, I am thoroughly persuaded that the agitation of the question in the present crisis of affairs, could only tend to aggravate those evils which I am sure the hon. member must as sincerely as any man deplore, without producing any one of those advantages which the hon. gent, is so anxious to accomplish. The hon. gent. has recommended to members to keep their minds open for future discussion, to avoid the formation of prepossessions, to be ready for the consideration of the question whenever it occurs, with moderation and impartiality. It is hardly necessary for me to give any pledge to the house, if the subject is ever brought regularly under discussion, what conduct I may think it my duty to pursue. I shall studiously endeavour to keep my mind unbiassed and unprejudiced by any previous statements or antecedent representations. The hon. member will find me ready to enter on the discussion temperately and gravely, and to be guided in my judgment by w hat appears most consonant to the principles of justice, policy, and humanity. I trust that the house will be content with this declaration, as to the second objection of the hon. gent, on the opposite bench, and that the unanimity which is likely to prevail this night, may experience no interruption; but that we may carry our expression to the foot of the Throne, with that ready and universal zeal, which the sentiments contained in his Majesty's most gracious speech so justly demand.
Sir Francis Burdett. —I do not rise, Sir, for the purpose of disturbing the unanimity of the House upon the present occasion. I shall vote for the Address. But there is a matter of the greatest importance, connected with that volunteer system which 28 has been so highly complimented in it; which I think it my duty to mention. And in so doing, I beg that I may not be misunderstood, nor misrepresented. In what I am about to say, I mean not the smallest censure upon the volunteers at large, nor even upon the system: however I may doubt, whether that system be or be not the least expensive, or the most eligible and effectual military force, either for the I purpose of defence or offence. Neither do I intend the slightest censure even upon that particular corps, whose conduct in one particular I disapprove. I can easily believe, that they may have been actuated by the best motives. The necessity of the times, the novelty of their situation, zeal for the service in which they have embarked, may all have prompted them to speedy and vigorous measures, the consequences of which they had not maturely considered.—But, Sir, I hold in my hand a paper, which purports to be an Address from the St. Giles's and St. George's Bloomsbury Volunteer Association,* directed to be carried
* The following is a correct copy of the Address to which Sir Francis alludes. "The Committee and the Commanding Officer of the St. Giles and St. George, Bloomsbury, Volunteer Association, most earnestly request your attention to the within paper.—St. Giles and St. George Bloomsbury Volunteer Association.—The Committee find themselves tinder the necessity of laying before the inhabitants of the united parishes, a state of the fund of the Association; and of requesting their pal titular attention to a few considerations of much importance to the country and to themselves.—From the statement hereto subjoined, of the subscriptions and the expenditure already made, and of the necessary current outgoings, it manifestly appears that the fund (notwithstanding the utmost economy has been used) is in no degree adequate to complete the establishment, much less to continue it—A great number of persons enrolled, extremely zealous, but not opulent, ate at this moment non-effective, because the fund is unable to furnish them with clothing.—It is unnecessary to state many considerations in order to excite the zeal of the inhabitants to supply a sufficient fund by further subscriptions.—the danger to which the country is at this moment exposed is too imminent and alarming to require to be dwelt upon.—The time may possibly be drawing near when the inhabitants would gladly sacrifice one-half of their property to be secure in the enjoyment of the remainder. It will be too late, when the enemy may be approaching the metropolis, to supply the means of training and disciplining those who have the courage and zeal to defend it.—Few districts, if any, have stronger reasons from local circumstances, which need not be pointed out, to wish for a strong volunteer force to be ready in it, in case the regular troops should be sent to the coast.—Few districts are better able, from their opulence, to bear the necessary expense of a Volunteer Association, either for the public defence, or for local protec-
from house to house throughout those parishes; calling upon those who had already contributed, as well as upon those who had not; giving their opinion of the ability and wealth of the different inhabitants; and advertising them of an intended domiciliary visit to each house by two of the corps; threatening to publish their names at the close of the year; and particularly pointing cut the aged, the infirm, and the women, whose fears may be supposed most easily excited.—Sir, it is more especially my duty to notice this, as it has passed in a county, which I have the honour to represent in
tion.—The Committee, from viewing the present stare of the subscription, as it respects either the whole amount, or the sums given by individuals, are satisfied that many of the inhabitants were not aware of the extent of the necessary expenditure, or of the claims upon them for furnishing the means of it.—striking examples of pecuniary exertions have occurred in almost every part of the kingdom—Many individuals have singly expended several thousand pounds in raising and supporting Volunteer Corps.—Even towards a general Subscription in one county a Nobleman subscribed 2,000 l. a Prelate 2,000 l. several 1,000 l. many private Gentlemen 500 l. 400 l. and 300 l. each; while, in these parishes, the highest subscription (except in two instances) has been col. That sum, however, standing even as the highest subscription, though small, in comparison with the sums above-mentioned, would have produced an ample fund, if others of the parishioners had subscribed proportionally.—Ten different persons have each subscribed 50 l. making up above a sixth of the whole subscription while many others, known to be of great opulence, either have not subscribed at all, or have given sums so comparatively small, that the Committee is most sincerely convinced they have acted under misconception.—The Committee abstain at present from publishing the subscriptions, until every person has had a full opportunity of reconsidering the matter. Before the end of the year they will be published.—I he crisis admits of no false delicacy—the present application is not to the liberality of persons—it is a call upon their patriotism and their duty, to come forward upon no less an occasion than that of re-cuing their country from destruction, and of defending the very existence of themselves and their families.—It is, therefore, fit that the country should know who the persons are that are zealous in its defence, and who those arc that at such a moment can decline to supply liberally the pecuniary means necessary to military exertions.—Those who are unable from age, infirmity, sex, or other cause, to tender personal service, should particularly recollect the great inconveniencies and sacrifices submitted to by those who arc performing military duty—they should endeavour to balance their account with their country by more extensive pecuniary aid.—Even those inhabitants who are serving or subscribing elsewhere, should remember that they have a stake to protect in this district.—The Committee will, in a few days, depute some of its members to apply to the inhabitant from house to house for their further subscriptions, and are confident that the application will not be in vain.—The inhabi-
this House. It is impossible to foresee to what extent this practice may be carried. That an armed corps should be a deliberative assembly was never thought advisable; but that we should have parochial parliaments through the land, raising money at their will upon the inhabitants, could not be borne for a moment: especially when it is considered, that these same persons undertake to determine the gross amount of the sum to be raised, and the quota of the individuals, and that these same persons are to receive it, to dispose of it, and to partake of it.—Sir, it is the duty of this House
tants need only pay, at present, such part of their subscriptions as may be convenient, leaving it to the Committee to call upon them proportionally for tire remainder, by instalments, as it shall be wanted.—By order of the Committee,
Nov. 1, 1803. JOHN WRIGHT, Secretary.
State of the Fund of the St. Giles and St. George Bloomsbury Volunteer Association. Amount of Subscriptions, from the 25th of July to the 1st of Nov. 1803 3005 0 0 Expended. Clothing 1398 6 0 Accoutrements 562 10 0 Drill Serjeants, Advertisements, Drums, Music, &c. &c. &c. 609 4 0 2570 0 0 Further Expenditure necessary to complete the Establishment. Clothing for 300 Men and Drummers l800 0 0 Great Coats, 600 630 0 0 Knapsacks, &c. 1050 0 0 Pickers, Br ushers, Drivers, &c. 165 0 0 Accoutrements, 300 450 0 0 Grenadiers Extras 100 0 0 Light Infantry Ditto 100 0 0 Sentry Boxes 100 0 0 Armoury and Magazine 250 0 0 Orderly Room 150 0 0 Printing, Stationary, &c. 100 0 0 Pioneers 90 0 0 Erecting Abutment for Ball-firing, &c 150 0 0 5235 0 0 Current Expenses. Ammunition 600 0 0 Armourers 600 0 0 Drill Serjeants 600 0 0 18 Drummers 400 0 0 Secretary Casual Clothing 200 0 0 Incidental Expenses 600 0 0 Clerks, Messenger, &c. 200 0 0 3200 0 0 Total Amount necessary 11005 0 0 Total Amount of Subscriptions 3005 0 0 Deficiency £8000 0 0
especially to meet, in the very beginning, a principle so dangerous: and, of all persons, the administration of the country ought to be the most alarmed at it; since the principle of this measure goes directly and immediately to the destruction, not only of this, but of every kind of government, and tends to the introduction of that anarchy, of which so much has been said to be apprehended. The motive may excuse the individuals; but it does not at all abate the malignity of the principle: for it is well known that many of the most ruinous practices to nations have been begun from good motives and for good purposes.—I have thought it my duty to take the earliest opportunity of noticing and reprobating this measure; and am persuaded ministers will take care, that it shall not be necessary for me to trouble the House hereafter on the subject.—The question was then put Upon the Address, and agreed to item, con., and a committee appointed to prepare the same—Adjourned.
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S1V0001P0_dc103f87d42931bb
| null |
[KING'S SPEECH.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 8126}
|
The Speaker informed the house that certain petitioning burgesses, complaining of an undue election and return for the borough of Great-Grimsby, in the county of Lincoln, had failed to enter into their recognances within the period prescribed by the act of parliament, and that, consequently, their petition could not be attended to.—The house then proceeded to vote the usual standing orders of the house for grand committees on religion, courts of justice, trade, &c. &c.—Mr. Vansittart moved an instruction to the committee upon expiring laws, that they do inquire what specific laws of a public and general nature have been made by Great Britain or Ireland, or by the parliament of the united kingdom, and which of them, have expired from September, 1802, to the 22d of November 1803, &c and which of them are fit to be 32 continued, &c. Ordered.—Mr. Jarvis gave notice that he should on Friday next move for leave to bring in a bill to prevent the desertion and escape of petty officers, seamen, and others, from his Majesty's service, by means or under colour of any civil or criminal process. He should have given this notice for to-morrow, had he not understood that the house was to have the honour of waiting on his Majesty with the address to morrow, on which occasion it was not usual to do any other business.
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S1V0001P0_d543552bd5b53f81
| null |
[MISUTES.]—
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{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 228}
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Mr. Dundas reported at the bar, from the committee of the Waterford election, that two of the members of that committee, Mr. Ward and Mr. F. W. Grant were absent, and that the other members, after waiting one hoar, ajourned.
The Speaker informed the house, that since the nomination of the committee Mr. Ward had ceased to be a member of that house, and therefore there could be no further proceeding by the house with respect to him. With respect to Mr. Grant, there was a provision in an act of Parliament for ordering his attendance in the house, to offer his excuse for his absence, or to undergo the censure of the house: a motion might therefore be made for his attendance in the house on a given day, which, of course would not be a distant one—Mr. Dundas therefore moved, "that Francis William Grant, Esq. do attend in his place on Friday next."—After a few observations from the chair, upon the regularity of the motion, and the usual practice of the house on similar occasious, the motion was put and carried.
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S1V0001P0_293c655f4fe78280
| null |
[WATERFORD ELECTION COMMITTEE.]—
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{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 183}
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Mr. Ellison adverted to the petition of John Ogle, Esq. complaing of an undue election and return for the borough of Boston, in the county of Lincoln, against Mr. Fydell, the present sitting member. He desired that the entry on the journals respecting this petition, might be read; which was accordingly done. He then desired that an entry on the journals in the year 1744, relative to the case of a petitioner who had been allowed seven days time to give in his qualification, on account of his being beyond seas at the time he was served with notice to do so, which he said was precisely the case of the present sitting member, Mr. Fydell; which entry being read, he moved, "that Mr. Fydell be allowed seven days from this present day, in order to prepare and lay before the house, a particular account of his qualification to be admitted as a member."
The Speaker entered into a foil explanation of the case. He reminded the house of the jealousy with which they were always actuated in matters of this nature. Yet he was well aware that laudable as that jealousy was, it would never stand in the way of justice and equity when they could be fairly attended without prejudice to either party. It was determined, by an order of the house, that when the qualification of candidates was called in question, the particulars of that qualification should be produced by him within fifteen days after the complaint of his wanting it, was made against him. The usual notice, it appears, had been sent to Mr. Fydell, in the present case, but not complied with; and the reason adduced for his non-compliance was his indispensible absence beyond sea. A precedent, similar to the present case, occured in the year 1744. It respected also a naval officer who was necessarily absent on the service of his country; and the house then judged it fit to extend the time. Should the house be now inclined to grant the same indulgence, they would agree to the motion made by the honourable gent.—Mr. Ellison's motion was then put and agreed to.
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S1V0001P0_65d4f0dfabbee60f
| null |
[BOSTON ELECTION FETITIOM.]—
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{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 359}
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The Speaker called the attention of the house to the renewal of petitions respecting contested elections, and intimated that they should be brought forward in the order of their priority, as they stood last session. Those of the fifth class were then brought forward; among the first of which were the petitions for Middlesex, Midhurst, and the Borough of Southwark.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer then rose to suggest the propriety of deferring the considerations of these petitions till after the Christmas recess. Should it be the pleasure of the house to adopt that suggestion, it should be his wish to pursue the same plan as that adopted last year, viz. that an order should be made for a call of the house, and that two petitions should be ballotted for on two days of each week. The house must be sensible how inconvenient it might be to enforce a call of the house at the present moment, and under the present circumstances of the country. Under that impression he had no doubt but that they would see the propriety of postponing the consideration of those petitions till the 2d of February, after the usual recess. The business which was likely to call together a full attendance would most probably be brought forward at that period; neither would the arrangement he was anxious for, interfere in the least with the 34 time of the usual recess. He should therefore move, that the petitions for Middlesex and Midhurst be brought forward on Thursday, the 2d of February, and that for the Borough of Southwark on the following Tuesday, the 7th of February, These motions were put and agreed to.
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S1V0001P0_818c9e7257a2dc32
| null |
[RENEWED ELECTION PETITIONS.]—
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{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 278}
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The Hon. Cropley Asbley brought up the report of the address proposed to be carried by the house to the foot of the throne, in return for His Majesty's most gracious speech delivered yesterday to both houses of parliament. The address was read a first time, and on the motion that this address be now read a second time,
Mr. Windham rose and addressed the chain as follows: Sir; I offer myself to day to your notice, not with a view of retracting in any degree the assent which I gave yesterday in a former stage of this address, but simply for the purpose of marking more distinctly the grounds of that assent, and obviating a misconstruction which might be liable to arise upon it. I wished the question to pass unanimously yesterday, for the same reasons which make me wish it to pass unanimously to day; namely, that nothing may seem to call in question the unanimity or our determination to give to his Majesty unbounded support, and to maintain the cause of the country through every possible trial, and to the last extremity. I should be sorry that any thing should appear on the face of our debates, which, in the mind even of the most rude observer, could create a doubt upon that subject. But while we are guarding against an error of this sort, let us take care not to incur one of an opposite tendency; that, namely, which would suppose, that unanimity in support of the country was unanimity in support of the ministers. There maybe some possibly, who think, as there are many, undoubtedly, who wish to have it thought, that the greater the dangers and difficulties of the country are, by whatever causes brought on, the greater must our acquiesence be in the ministry of the time being, and the more complete our forbearance of all that is usually called opposition. And if by opposition is meant a captious and vexatious opposition, an opposition on things of doubtful nature or inferior consequence, an opposition for the purpose of impeding ministers and making the government difficult to them, the opinion is certainly well founded. What it would be hard to justify at any time, must be wholly unjustifiable in circumstances such as those supposed. But 35 if there are persons, who think that of the danger here alleged as a reason for supporting ministers, the ministers themselves form the principal part; that the preparations of the enemy, however menacing, would have little terror, if met with wisdom and ability; that the seat of the evil is here rather than abroad; that it is the weakness of the defence, and not the vigour of the attack that constitutes the danger; that Buonaparte and his legions, however terrific, are not half so terrific as the little band which we see before us on the Treasury Bench; if there are persons who hold these opinions, to such persons it would be idle to say, that, for fear of exposing the weakness or lessening the authority of ministers, they were to stand quiet spectators of what was passing, and were neither to attempt to prevent the mischief, nor point out the source from which they conceived it to proceed. Such is the situation in which I feel myself stand. I have no wish, and in one view certainly have no right, to speak with slight or disparagement of the abilities of the hon. gentlemen. Individually considered, they are all men of cultivated minds, of liberal education, of good natural endowments, not unread in the history of their country, not unpractised in its business, not unprovided with those talents and acquirements which are necessary for the conducting of business in this House. But if I am to speak of them collectively, as men forming the council which is to guide the affairs of a great empire, which is to rule the world in a crisis like the present, I must say, from whatever causes it arises, that they are weakness itself. I really believe the country will perish in their hands. I believe the hon. gentlemen will fairly see us out; that we shall not outlive their administration; that they will prove, as I believe, I once before took the liberty of remarking to them, the Angustuli in whose hands the empire will fall. There is an old joke which we may remember, of Cicero's, who when some person had ceased to be Consul on the same day on which he had been made, observed, that the person in question might tell of a prodigy which few of his predecessors could boast, for, that the sun had never set during his consulate. I wish that something equally prodigious may not be found in the history of the hon. gentlemen, and that it may not be to be said of them hereafter, that their administration lasted as long as the country.—It is now just two yean and a few weeks since I felt myself compelled to say to them in this place, and upon something of a similar oc- 36 casion, namely, the first day of the meeting of Parliament, "that they had signed the death warrant of their country." * The affairs of the country have been in their hands, without interruption, from that day to this. And can we venture to say, that the gloomy forebodings then expressed have made no progress towards their accomplishment, or that the hon. gentlemen do not bid fairer to put the fuddling stroke to the work which they were then supposed to have begun? With these impressions, it is childish to talk of forbearing opposition, in cases where opposition would otherwise be proper, for fear of impeding the exertions of the hon. gentlemen, or exciting a belief that the country was not safe in their hands. Were I to forbear any opportunities of so doing, I am sure it must be from motives far different from those of regard for the safety of the country.—With respect to the address itself, notwithstanding the care which has been taken, and properly taken, to avoid any occasion of difference, objections to it would not be wanting, were this the moment for insisting upon ihem.—In point of taste, I could have wished, that less even had been said, than has been, of the conquests in the West Indies, and the impression thereby made on the enemy. Wretched, indeed, must be our view of things, if, at a moment like the present, we can amuse ourselves with such objects, and not see, that to the contempt in which the enemy holds them compared with the immense projects which, he is meditating, we owe, in great measure, the facility with which they have fallen into our hands.—Upon the subject of Ireland, I agree entirely in the remarks made yesterday by an honourable gentleman (Mr. Fox), that the hope expressed is too sanguine, either for the nature of the thing, or for any confidence to be reposed in the testimony, on which we receive it. I agree with him also, in the fears which I understood him to express,—fears very far from being allayed by what we have heard subsequently,—that the views entertained respecting Ireland, and seeming in some degree to * The following is the passage to which Mr. Windham alludes.—"Sir, I speak in perfect plainness and sincerity, from the bottom of my heart, and with the solennito of a death-bed declaration a situation much ressembling that in which we all stand), when I declare, that my honourable friends, who, in a moment of rashness and weakness, have fatally put their hands to this treaty, have signed the death warrant to their country They have given it a blow, under which it may languish for a few years, but from which I do not conceive how it is possible for it ever to recover," See Political Register, Vol 2, p. 1093. 37 be indicated in the speech, were far from being of a sort which promised tranquillity or safety to that kingdom. But the part perhaps of the address most objectionable, is that concluding paragraph, which speaks of the issue of the present contest. The language there held has too much tendency to countenance a notion, than which nothing can be more false and foolish, that by the issue of the present contest is to be under stood only the issue of the invasion; which once past and decided in our favour, all be yond is to be security and glory. We know how readily the minds of men out of doors, will run into such a notion, and we may suspect even some of a higher description within these walls; but nothing could be more disgraceful or fatal than that such a notion should appear for a moment to be recognized by the house at large. This is all that I wish to say upon the subject of the present address, either generally or in detail.—One word more only, upon a matter of a different sort, and which I am tempted to introduce to day, principally because it is the first occasion that offers, and because no man can say, in our present circumstances, whether the first occasion may not be the last, nor how soon we may be called away, as was observed by an honourable gentleman yesterday, to the performance of duties more active at least, if not more important, than those which we have to discharge in this house—It will equally with the other subjects which I have touched upon, lead to no debate, nor require from the honourable gentlemen opposite to me, even an answer.—I am come, in common with many other gentlemen, from a residence of some time in my own country: and upon the result of that residence, what I have to declare is, that should any great stroke be struck in the county of Norfolk, of the sort that has been pointed out to the honourable gentlemen, and for want of those precautions, which have likewise been pointed out to them; I shall, certainly, think, that there will be grounds of serious criminal charge against the honourable gent. and should the case not be such as, by the very magnitude of the evil, to put an end to all proceedings, to sweep away both accuser and accusation, 'To take at once the poet and the song,' I shall probably feel it my duty to stand forward as the bringer of that charge.—More than this upon the present occasion need not be said, nor could, perhaps, be said with propriety. I had prepared, before I left Norfolk, a representation upon the subject, 38 and proposed it to a meeting of gentlemen assembled for other county business, wishing to have transmitted it to government with the advantage of their signatures: but, for reasons, which they, of course, thought satisfactory, which were not explained, as in fact no discussion was invited, and which I shall not presume to guess at, they declined to join in the representation. It was my duty to afford them the opportunity; as I conceive it to have been my duty now to mention the subject in the way that I have done.—The honourable gentlemen will not consider me as bringing a charge against them, at least not one of which it is necessary for them to take notice, as it must rest for the present solely on the authority of the individual who brings it, unsupported by any proof. As a menace even, the honourable gentlemen will be entitled to hold it cheap, if they are confident that no blame can be imputed to them, but that every thing has been done, that can or ought to be done. It is as a menace, however, that I intend it; as the only means which I now possess of compelling attention to objects, which, in my apprehension at least, require to be attended to. This is all that I have to say upon this point. Upon the general topick, I trust I have sufficiently explained myself, and shall therefore no longer detain the house from voting the present address, with that unanimity, which, under the explanation now given, I shall be happy to see it received. The address was then read a second time, agreed to, and ordered to be presented to His Majesty by the whole house; and those members who were of His Majesty's most honourable privy council were ordered humbly to know His Majesty's pleasure when he would be graciously pleased to receive the same.
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S1V0001P0_e0348e2c01b11d8f
| null |
[ADDRESS.]—
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{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 2099}
|
This day the Speaker cams to the house at half past two, according to the adjournment of the preceding day. Very few members, however, gave their attendance, and at twenty minutes past three, when the Chancellor of the Exchequer arrived, there were not above thirty members present. The de>pair of making a house was at this time very great. At length, about a quarter before four, Mr. Serjeant, who had been sent in quest of members, arrived with the member necessary to enable the speaker to take the chair, several of whom had been called out from the drawing room for that purpose.—Lord Charles Somerset appeared at 39 the bar, and announced that His Majesty having been waited upon to know when it would be his pleasure to receive the address voted the day before, had appointed that day at half past three o'clock.—The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the order of the day for taking into consideration His Majesty's speech from the throne. That part of His Majesty's speech which expressed a reliance on his faithful commons for making provision for the expenses of the ensuing year, being read, the Chancellor of the Exchequer moved, "that a supply be granted to His Majesty; and that the house should to-morrow resolve itself into a committee to consider of that motion." Ordered—The house then adjourned, and, preceded by the Speaker, went up to St. James's 'with the address.
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S1V0001P0_db3965fb0f47dbdf
| null |
[MINUTFS.]—
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{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 237}
|
As soon as the house met, the Speaker stated that he, accompanied by several members, waited yesterday on His Majesty, to present the address voted by the house in reply to His Majesty's speech: to which His Majesty was pleased to give the following most gracious answer:—"Gentlemen, I return yon my warmest thanks for this dutiful and affectionate address. Such a declaration of your sentiments at the present moment cannot fail to afford me the highest satisfaction. I have the most perfect reliance on the continuance of your support and on the zealous exertions of my faithful subjects, to bring the contest, in which I am engaged, to a successful and honourable issue."—This answer was ordered to be entered on the Journals.—A new writ was ordered for the election of a representative to serve in parliament for the town of Rye, in the room of Lord Hawkesbury, called up to the house of peers; and a writ was also ordered for the Royal Boroughs of Inverness, etc. in the room of Cumming Gordon, esq. who. since his election, has accepted the stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds.—The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the order of the day, for the House to resolve itself into a committee for granting a supply to His Majesty, and that so much of His Majesty's most gracious speech as referred to his reliance on his faithful commons for o supply, be referred to said committee.—The house having resolved itself into the committee, Mr. Hobhouse in the chair, that part of His Majesty's speech was read, and the committee came to a resolution that a supply be granted to His Majesty.—The house was 40 then resumed, and the report of the committee of supply ordered to be brought up on Monday.—Petitions were presented, complaining of undue returns for the boroughs of Windsor, Weymouth, and Ilchester. The two former were ordered to be taken into consideration upon Thursday the 9th of February, and the latter upon Tuesday the 14th—Mr. Manning presented a petition from the directors of the London dock company, praying that they might be allowed to raise a further sum of 500,000l., in addition to the sum of 1,200,000l. already raised. Referred to the consideration of a select committee, which was appointed.—Mr. Vansittart moved, that there be laid before the house, an account of the net produce of all the permanent taxes in the years and quarters, ending on the 10th of October, 1802, and 1803 respectively. Ordered.
|
S1V0001P0_41409e3ae8564d88
| null |
[MINUTES]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 412}
|
Mr. C. Dundas, at the bar, reported from the committee appointed to determine the merits of the petitions complaining of an un due election and return for the city of Waterford, that, pursuant to the permission of the house, that committee had adjourned from Wednesday to this day. That they had met consequently at three o'clock, when, finding that Francis William Grant, Esq. did not at tend, they had set for an hour, and then ad journed to half past four, directing the chair man to report the same to the house—The report was ordered to be brought up.—Mr. C. Dundas, as chairman of the committee, then moved, that the said F. W. Grant, Esq. be discharged from further attendance on that committee. In laying the grounds for this motion, he hoped the house would excuse him for stating briefly the circumstances of the case. It would be in the recollection of the house, that previous to the recess, a commission had been sent to Ireland for the purpose of taking evidence, which commission had been returned with the minutes of the evidence taken before the commissioners; upon a due consideration of which the committee was to decide the merits of the petitions. It would also be in the recollection of the house, that towards the close of last session, an application had been made to the house, by the consent, and for the convenience of all parties, for permission to adjourn all further proceedings till the second day of the present session; which permission the house hid thought fit to grant, and the committee had adjourned accordingly. This was a point upon which any member of the committee could not be ignorant, as it must have been equally known to all. On the second day of 41 this session the committee had met, with the exception of the honourable member, who was the object of the motion, when, on reporting his non-attendance to the house, they had obtained permission to adjourn further to this day, in the hope that the hon. member would attend in his place, and that they should hare the benefit of his advice in their proceedings. He, however, had neglected to attend, and in consequence the chairman thought it his duty, for the furtherance of justice, and in order that the committee might be enabled to proceed, to submit the motion he had made to the house, particularly as the provisions of the election laws authorised a committee, on an Irish petition, to proceed, though it should be reduced to nine members.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer hoped the house would not accede to the motion, unless very cogent reasons should be assigned for the absence of the hon. member. To discharge a member from his attendance on a committee, was an indulgence which the house never granted but upon very substantial grounds, and unless some conclusive reasons should be assigned in the present instance, he should feel himself under the necessity of dissenting from the motion.
Mr. Charles Grant begged to be indulged, while he stated in justification of the hon. member what he knew of the cause of his absence. The hon. member was at present on duty with his regiment, which having been lately raised, required all his care and attention. He had not been aware of the order of the house which authorised election committees to continue, notwithstanding a prorogation of parliament, and had neglected to attend under an impression that such committees were necessarily dissolved at the end of a session. This was a fact which he could confidently state, as he had himself received a letter some weeks since from the hon. member desiring to be informed on the subject, which information he was not at that time competent to give.
The Speaker observed that there were two distinct questions for the house to consider: first, whether it should be its pleasure, for the furtherance of justice, to enable the committee to proceed, by discharging Mr. Grant from further attendance; secondly, what conduct it would be its pleasure to adopt, wish respect to the hon. member who had absented himself from his duty. These questions were wholly distinct, and it would be for the house to determine in what manner it should think proper to dispose of them. There was a case in point on the journals. It was the case of Mr. Booth Grey, who, 42 removing from town on urgent business pending the sitting of a committee, of which he was a member, wrote a letter to die chairman, stating the circumstance, and requesting him to communicate the same to the house. On the letter being produced, he was discharged from further attendance ort the committee, but ordered to attend in his place on a certain day, and account for his absence.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer concurred with the sentiments that had fallen from the chair. He had no objection to discharge the hon. member from further attendance, in order to enable the committee to proceed, provided it could not operate to limit the discretion of the house, as to the conduct it may think proper to adopt with respect to the defaulter. He, however, submitted, whether the object of the motion might not be attained as well by wording it differently, that is, "to enable the committee to proceed, notwithstanding the absence of this member."
Mr. Ward concurred in the suggestion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and observed that the object of the hon. chairman would be fully effected by so wording his motion, which had been drawn up in the other form with an unintentional inaccuracy.
Mr. Tierney did not think the case of Mr. Grey applicable in the present instance. In that case Mr. Grey had appeared by letter before the house, in the present there was no appearance whatever: and he trusted that for the regularity of the proceedings of the House, they would not suffer such a resolution to be placed on their journals, without being accompanied by a good and sufficient reason for the ground on which they had adopted it.
Mr. Bragge agreed with his hon. friend (Mr. Tierney) that such a proceeding should not appear on their journals without some document to shew why it had been adopted. He submitted to the hon. member (Mr. Charles Grant), whether he might not put what he had already stated in that form to the house, whereby it would be justified in agreeing to the consequent preceedings.—Mr. C. Grant's statement was then entered on the journals, as the ground on which the house assented to the following motions: 1st. That F. W. Grant, Esq. be discharged from farther attendance on the committee. 2d. That the committee be enabled to proceed notwithstanding his absence; and, 3d That F. W. Grant, Esq. be ordered to at tend in his place on Wednesday tha seventh day of December next.
|
S1V0001P0_1f552a87dc3e1531
| null |
[WATERFORD ELECTION COMMITTEE.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 1156}
|
Mr. Jarvis rose, pursuant to the notice he had given, to move for leave to bring in a bill to prevent the desertion and escape of petty officers, seamen, and others, from his Majesty's service, by means or under colour of any civil or criminal process. He should detain the house, but a very short time, in stating the grounds and principles of the measure he proposed to bring forward. There were too many convincing proofs, that the processes of law had been frequently perverted, for the purpose of enabling individuals to escape from the, naval service, in which they had been employed. It would not be necessary for him to trespass on the attention of the house, by enumerating the various instances of fraudulent arrests for civil actions, or the many pretended criminal charges, under colour of which, seamen had been removed from the authority of their naval officer, and then set at large, to the manifest injury of his Majesty's service. The measure, he proposed, would correct this abuse altogether and he felt great satisfaction in assuring the house, that it would not interfere with the rights, nor infringe the privileges of any description of men. It would leave the seaman, who might be improperly impressed, in the same situation as to his habeas corpus, m which he now stands; and it would not weaken the claim of creditors, nor trench upon their just and legal rights. It would leave the arrested seaman, in the same situation precisely, as to service, in which lie stood before the arrest, as its principal object would be to secure his return to the service to which he may have belonged, as soon as the action should be satisfied. The principal object of the measure he meant to introduce, was to make sheriffs responsible for the return of such seamen as should be arrested under their authority, to the service, instead of being left at large on their release from the arrest. It was to be obligatory on the sheriff, in such a case, to convey the seaman, within a reasonable time, and for an adequate compensation, to the nearest port, and give him up to the port-admiral, or regulating captain, commanding there. The consequence of this regulation would be an essential benefit to the seaman, who would be conveyed back, to his ship free of any expense. With regard also to seamen fraudulently arrested, the bill would have a most salutary effect, as it would effectually prevent my future perversion of the process of the law, to cover the desertion of persons Serving in his majesty's navy. These were the leading features of his measure, and, he trusted, the house would concur with him in 44 its expediency. He therefore should move for leave to bring in the bill. Leave was given.—Mr. Jarvis then brought up the bill, which was read a first time, ordered to be read a second time on Tuesday next, and to be printed.
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S1V0001P0_e0ae1c3ef6cbe67d
| null |
[DESERTION OF SEAMEN.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 497}
|
The Speaker took the chair at half after three.—Col. Hayne then presented a petition for leave to bring in an inclosure bill, which was granted.—Mr. Foster appeared at the bar from the Exchequer office, with an account of the net produce of the taxes of the current year, ending the 10th of October. The account was ordered to lie on the table, and a sufficient number of copies to be printed for the use of the members.—Sir C. Bunbury presented a petition from the debtors confined in the county gaol of Suffolk.—Ordered to lie on the table.—Mr. W. Dundas gave notice of his intention to bring in a bill to explain the acts relating to statute labour in Scotland, with respect to the construction of which, doubts subsisted. He declined mentioning a particular day, stating that it was his intention to write to the representatives for Scotland, and to fix such a day, as would be convenient to them, for the discussion of the subject.—Lord Castlereagh gave notice of his intention to move, on Wednesday, for leave to bring in a bill, relative to the bonding of East-India goods.—Mr. Hobhouse brought up the report of the committee of supply. The resolution for granting a supply was agreed to nem. con. and the committee ordered to sit again on Wednesday.—Mr. Vansittart moved, that there be laid before the house, the following estimates, viz.; An estimate of the ordinary expenses of the navy for the year 1804; an estimate of the expense of the half-pay of officers of the navy, and such officers of the royal marines, as served in the last war; an estimate of the expense of building and repairing ships of war, and other expenses in his majesty's dock-yards, generally known by the denomination of wear and tear, for the year 1804; an estimate of the expense of guards and garrisons, and other descriptions of his majesty's land forces for 1804; an estimate of the expense of ordnance for land service, for the year 1804; an estimate of the expense, incurred for services, not provided for by Parliament; an estimate of the expenses of transport service, for the year 1804. Ordered.—Mr. Vansittart also moved, that an humble address be presented to his Majesty, praying that his Majesty would 45 be graciously pleased to give directions, that I the proper officers should prepare such estimates, and lay them before the house. Agreed to.—Petitions relating to the controverted elections, for the following places, were laid on the table, and appointed for consideration in the following order:—Aylesbury and Glasgow, February 14; Baldock and Honiton, February 16; Carrickfergas and Sudbury, February 21; Minehead and Hereford City, February 23; London and Coventry, February 28; Stirling, March 1, 1804.—Mr. Adams gave notice, that on Wednesday next, he should move to vote the seamen, deemed necessary for the service of the year 1804.
|
S1V0001P0_48e0793a87010d6f
| null |
[MINUTES.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 477}
|
Mr. Alderman Combe wished to be informed by the Secretary of the Treasury, whether there was any intention to bring in a bill to simplify the act of last session, relating id this tax. Much difficulty was, at present felt, in making out the returns; and it was therefore extremely desirable, that it should be decidedly stated, whether any alteration was to take place in the standard by which the return was to be regulated, and the manner in which it was to be made, as the act now stood.
Mr. Vansittart said, he had no intimation from his majesty's ministers, that any alteration was to be made in the act alluded to by the worthy Alderman. On the contrary, he understood it to be their intentions, that, for the present, the returns should be made, according to the act, as it now stood 5 and that this should be continued for one year, in order to afford a full and fair trial to the present system. The whole of its faults and deficiencies, which would then be perfectly understood, may be then corrected by one bill, which would be much better than to trouble Parliament at present with separate bills on every supposed and ill-conceived difficulty or imperfection.
Mr. Alderman Combe expressed himself satisfied with the answer given by the honourable gentleman.
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S1V0001P0_755ef07c384f3bc9
| null |
[INCOME TAX.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 223}
|
Admiral Berkeley wished to know, whether the expense of the barracks now building, was to be included in the estimates just moved for.
Mr. Vansittart said, the expense of barracks was not one of those included in the estimates, which he had moved the house to order.
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S1V0001P0_8e2ddac1a625940e
| null |
[BARRACKS]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 47}
|
Mr. Hurst brought up the report of the Committee on the expiring 46 laws. It was ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed.—Sir Robert Buxton moved that, there be laid before the house an account of the quantity of strong beer, table beer, and small bee, brewed in this country and liable to duty, from the 5th Jan. 1802, to the 5th Jan 1803.—Mr. Vansittart suggested the propriety of wording the motion in such a way as to enable the officers to whom the order was to be directed, to comply with the desire of the house, and with the wishes of the hon. baronet, which it would be impossible for them to do if the motion remained as it at present stood, as they could have cognizance of such beer only as actually paid the duty.—The motion, amended according to this suggestion, was put and agreed to.—The bill for preventing the desertion of petty officers and seamen was read a second time, and ordered to a committee oft he whole houle on Thursday next—Mr. Steele appeared at the bar, and informed the house that his Majesty had been waited upon with the address voted yesterday, for the production of certain estimates to the house, and that his Majesty had been graciously pleased to order the same.—Mr. Tierney presented a petition from the debtors confined in the county gaol of Surrey.—It was ordered to lie on the table.—Mr. Adams brought up the account of the estimates of the ordinary and extraordinary expenses of the navy for year 1804. Ordered that these estimates be taken into consideration on Friday next.—The Chancellor of the Exchequer gave notice, that he would to-morrow move for leave to bring in a bill to continue further the restriction of specie from the Bank.—Mr. Corry gave notice of a similar motion with respect to the Bank of Ireland.
|
S1V0001P0_a7183bb67cd9c1ff
| null |
[MINUTES.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 314}
|
The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he thought it necessary to fix upon some specific day, beyond winch private petitious would not be received by the house, in order to prevent the inconvenience which frequently took place in consequence of the too long extension of the lime generally allowed for that purpose. He wished, however, to put off such limitation to such a day as should leave no room for complaints or excuse to any person desiring to petition, and he at the same time was anxious that it should be generally understood that no further time would be allowed. This arrangement he was urged to propose from a recollection of the trouble too often occasioned by the great overflow of private business at that period of the sessions, when a quantity of important public affairs was to be at- 47 tended to. The right hon. gent. concluded with moving, that the 24th of February next should be the last day fixed upon for the acceptance of private petitions. This motion was agreed to.
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S1V0001P0_df2ad30286d343e0
| null |
[PRIVATE PETITIONS.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 174}
|
Mr. Deverell, a member of the Waterford Election Committee, rose to move that James Pedley, Esq. one of the members of the said committee, be excused his attendance on that committee, as his presence was necessary elsewhere, on accout of the death of a near relation, and private business of a very urgent nature.
The Speaker informed the hon. member that the usual mode of proceeding on such occasions, was, that the member who moved the leave of absence should come forward to the table, and state in writing the grounds upon which he rested his motion. That he should verify these grounds upon oath, and that then the house would decide on the propriety of acceding to the motion.—The hon. member having accordingly approached the table, and deposed upon oath the grounds of his motion,
The Speaker acquainted the house, that the grounds of the motion were, that James Pedley, Fsq. was called to Jamaica by very urgent private affairs. That he had taken his passage on board a vessel that was to sail from Portsmouth for that island, and that he had received a letter intimating to him that the ship was ready to sail without delay.
Mr. Deverell, after stating these grounds, moved, that James Pedley, Esq. have leave of absence from further attendance on the Waterford Committee.—On the question being put.
The Attorney General rose, and observed how painful a task it must be to any man to oppose a motion supported on such grounds as those upon which the present motion was rested. But the house must feel how essential it was to pause before a precedent of such importance should be established. He certainly could not now pretend to make up his mind upon the question, and should feel it his duty to take advice upon the point, before he gave it his assent. The learnedgent. then proceeded to observe that the Waterford Committee was already reduced to twelve—that should the leave of absence now solicited, be granted, the number would be eleven, within two of the number absolutely necessary for prosecuting the business before the committee. Thus might a complete suspension of the most essential business of the House of Commons be brought entirely at a stand; be- 48 sides sickness, and other equally embarrassing difficulties, might preclude the attendance of the remaining members, which might induce a total suspension of the most important and essential proceedings. Under that impression, he felt it his duty to move that the debate on the motion be adjourned till to-morrow.—The question was put on this amendment and agreed to.
|
S1V0001P0_91d2f20ede8a6235
| null |
[WATERFORD ELECTION COMMITTEE.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 433}
|
Admiral Berkeley, seeing the Secretary at War in his place, rose to ask a question respecting the mode in which the house were to be informed of the expense of the barrack department. When he had inquired into this matter yesterday, an hon. gent. [Mr. Vansittart] had not been able to give him an answer which he could consider satisfactory. What he desired to be informed of was, whether the expense of the barrack establishment was mentioned in the general estimates to be laid before the house. The contracts for the building of barracks were enormous, particularly in the part of the country (Sussex) where he had lately resided. At a time when the general expenses of the country were so great, it was of importance to have the expense of contracts fully considered. With the view of bringing the matter under consideration, it was, however, previously necessary that the point to which he had referred should be explained.
The Secretary at War [Mr. Bragge] could not at present give a decided opinion in what manner the estimates for the barrack department would be brought forward. He could mention, however, generally, that it was not intended to include them in the estimates for the expense of the army. As to the amount of the contracts, he should only observe that they were formed on principles of as strict economy as government could obtain. It was not to be supposed that, in the present circumstances of the country such works could be executed at as cheap a rate as in other periods. Labour had necessarily increased in price, and the difficulty of procuring workmen to complete the works with sufficient celerity naturally enhanced the demands of those who contracted with government.
|
S1V0001P0_680fe718a8cd9c8e
| null |
[BARRACKS.]—
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{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 290}
|
Colonel Stewart took the oaths and his seat.—The Speaker acquainted the house, that the petitions complaining of undue elections, and the returns to the boroughs of Hull, Leominster, Shaftesbury, and Boston, had not been renewed in the present session of Parliament, pursuant to the provisions of the 28th of his present Majesty: and that he had certified to his Majesty's court of exchequer, that the recognisances in these cases had been forfeited.—General Bartlett brought up an enclosure bill, which was ordered to be read a first time.—Mr. Manning brought up the report of the committee to whom the petition of the London Dock Company had been referred, and obtained leave to bring in a bill to allow the said company to raise by loan, or otherwise, a sum of 500,000l. in addition to their original capital of 1,200,000l.—Sir P. Stephens, in a Committee of Supply, moved, that it be the opinion of the committee, that 100,000 seamen, including marines, be voted for the year 1804.—That a sum not exceeding 2,405,000l. be granted to his Majesty, for wages for these 100,000 men, for thirteen lunar months, at the rate of 1l. 17s. per min per month; that a sum not exceeding 2,470,000l. be granted for victuals for them for thirteen lunar months, at the rate of 1l. 18s. per man per month; that a sum not exceeding 3,900,000l. be granted for Wear and tear of ships for that complement of men for thirteen lunar months at the rate of 3l. per man per month; that a sum not exceeding 325,000l. be granted for ordnance for the sea service, for that complement of men for thirteen lunar months, at the rate of 5s. per man per quarter.—The resolutions were all agreed to; and the house being resumed, the report was ordered to be received to morrow.—Mr. Secretary Yorke gave notice, that he should on Friday next, move, for leave to bring in 50 two bills, to continue, for a time to be limited, two bills of last session, for the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act; and for the suppression of rebellion in Ireland.—Mr. Vansittart moved, that there be laid before the house the following estimates: An estimate of the expense of the hire of transports from January 7, to December 31, 1804; An estimate of the expenses of prisoners of war, in health, for the same period; An estimate of the money that will probably be wanted for sick prisoners of war, for thirteen lunar months, from January 7, 1804.—The motions were all agreed to, and an address ordered to be presented by such members as were of his Majesty's Privy Council, that his Majesty would be graciously pleased to order the said estimates to be laid before the house.
|
S1V0001P0_7183645328cb93e8
| null |
[MINUTES.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 459}
|
Lord Castle reagh, pursuant to his notice on a former day, rose to submit his motion to the house, on the subject of the East-India Company's bonds. The house would be aware of the importance of the measure he had to propose inasmuch as the value of the East-India Company's capital was materially influenced by the circumstances under which their securities were circulated in the market. The object of the bill he meant to bring forward, would be to place India bonds, as nearly as possible, on the same footing as Exchequer bills; and the operation of it, of course, would extend to two points, in which they differed from such government securities. The first point related to the manner in which the duty charged under the property tax act was levied on income, arising from such property, which rendered it less desirable to the holder, and of course, tended to depreciate its value. As the tax was levied under the provisions of that act, the directors were authorised to deduct the shilling in the pound from the interest payable on India bonds; so that, whatever may be the income of the holder, the full amount was in this instance to be levied, even though he should not possess 150l. per annum. Such a mode of levying the tax> operated directly to diminish the convenience of such property, and consequently to depreciate its value. 1l was, however, to be admitted, that the party had a remedy by an application to the commissioners for an abatement in every case, where his rate of income, or other circumstances, should entitle him to such abatement. But, when it was considered how onerous and operose such application must prove to individuals, he trusted the house would not object to the principle for simplifying the mode of col- 51 lecting the tax, by enabling holders of India bonds to include the interest thereof in the general statement of their income. He was the more confident of this, as the modifification would not interfere to any considerable amount with the income; duty. The gross amount of India bonds, issued by the company, did not exceed 80,000 or 90,000l. the duty upon which, would of course be tinder 5000l. and not of sufficient weight with the house to induce it to with-hold a facility to the operations of a great commercial company, particularly as the just amount of the duty would not be eventually affected thereby. This was one object of his measure; the other regarded the rate of interest which India bonds bear, with reference to the interest payable on Exchequer bills. The company was by law prohibited from giving more than five per cent, on their bonds, whereas Exchequer bills bore a rate of interest per day, which amounted annually to 5l. 6s. 6d. per cent. This circumstance rendered the property in India bonds, less desirable than other property capable of producing a higher rate of interest, and was of course injurious to the company; besides, it was material that in time of war the bonds of the company should not be ousted from the market. Though the rate of interest had been limited by law, the noble Lord was sure it had never been in the intension of the legislature to place India bonds under disadvantages, to which no other public securities were liable. He was aware that it might be urged, that there ought to be some distinction, between the interests of the public and that of a commercial body, but he was confident the legislature would not look upon the India company as a body wholly mercantile. Their interests were so closely interwoven with the interests of the public at large, which was to enjoy a participation of their resources, that the public could not be a gainer while the company was a loser. His object, therefore, was, to enable the India company to give an interest on their bonds, not exceeding the rate of Interest which exchequer bills may bear at any time, in order that they may enjoy their fair proportion in the market for the circulating medium. He did not see any necessity to trouble the house further, he therefore should move "for leave to bring in a bill to regulate India bonds, with regard to the rate of interest and duty payable thereon."—Leave given.
|
S1V0001P0_023e45b0ccf07a18
| null |
[EAST-INDIA BONDS.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 726}
|
The Chancellor of the Exchequer after moving, "that the several acts imposing a restriction on the issue of cash in the payments made by the 52 Bank be read," stated, that it was not his intention to preface the motion he meant to submit to the house with many introductory observations. There had, on a former occasion, existed considerable objections to the measure for confirming the order of council by which the restriction of the issues of cash from the Bank had been imposed. He was himself of opinion, that the measure was a wise one; and whatever doubts might have existed, in the first instance, as to its expediency, had been fully and satisfactorily obviated in the discussion which had taken place, on the subject's being brought before the house. But though doubts had been entertained as to the propriety of the measure, during a period of peace, he had never heard its policy questioned during a period of war. Under the impression, therefore, that no doubts existed on the subject, he should take it for granted, that no objection would be made, in the present instance, to a renewal of the measure. It was satisfactory to know that the credit of the Bank had remained firm and unshaken, during the past experience of the measure, and that its sufficiency to make good its engagements, both was, and is, unaffected by even the slightest suspicion. It was highly to the credit of the Bank, too, that it had not availed itself of the dispositions of the act, to issue a quantity of paper exceeding the amount of its capital; or abused the discretion, which a measure essential to the public welfare, necessarily left for its own private ends. It was, however, expedient, that the house should, from time to time, be made acquainted with the quantity of paper in circulation, and he proposed to move for an account of that which was actually in circulation at different periods during the last year; but he should first move, "for leave to bring in a bill, to continue, for a time to be limited, the restriction on the issues of cash by the Bank of England."
Mr. Jekyll. —Sir; I do not rise to oppose I the motion of the right Don. Gent. but to direct his attention, and that of the house, to the lamentable state to which the public are reduced by the want of circulating specie. The shameful practice of hoarding up cash, has been carried to such an excessive pitch, that it is with great difficulty, specie can be procured for the common purposes of life. I am sorry to observe the prevalence of this ungenerous feeling, at a crisis, which calls for every possible exertion; and, I am assured, from the respectable authority of a principal banking-house, that, if the practice be net put a stop to, bankers 53 will in a short time not be able to procure specie for the fractional parts of change. I have seen too, in a newspaper of this morning, some resolutions of a respectable corporation,* calculated to meet the evil, and recommending the acceptance of dollars at a certain rate, and of French crowns and half crowns, in change. These observations I have thrown out, Sir, merely, to call the attention of the right hon. gent. to a grievance, which loudly calls for legislative interference.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer agreed with, the hon.gent. that the evil of which he complained, but too certainly existed; and assured him, that it had been under the consideration of his Majesty's government. He admitted that the hon.gent. had commented justly on the baseness of such a practice, at such a crisis. The remedy, however, rested with individuals, who might easily correct a practice, that was as inconsistent with public spirit, as it was with the duty of a good citizen.—The motion was then put, and leave given to bring in the bill. After which the Chancellor of the Exchequer moved, "that there be laid before the house an account of the amount of Bank of England notes in circulation on the 1st of June, 1st of August, 1st of October, and 25th of November, 1803; distinguishing the amount of the value of those below 5l." Ordered.
|
S1V0001P0_0b58b0b99062a33c
| null |
[BANK RESTRICTION BILL]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 714}
|
Mr. Deverell moved the order of the day, for renewing the debate on the motion for excusing Mr. Pedley from his attendance on the Waterford committee.
The Speaker said, he conceived it to be his duty to state to the house, that affairs of an urgent nature having called the hon.gent. mentioned in the motion, to the island of Jamaica, and that the gentleman having long since taken his passage, it was moved that he obtain leave of absence from the committee on the Waterford election, on * The following is the circumstance to which the hon. member alluded:—In consequence of the great inconvenience experienced at Portsmouth from the scarcity of cash, a meeting was held, pursuant to advertisement, at the Guildhall of that place, on the 22d of November. The mayor presided; and, after some discussion on the means of alleviating the difficulties and inconveniences so, seriously felt at Portsmouth and Portsea, for the want of gold and silver for the purposes of trade, it was unanimously resolved, that dollars should be admitted into temporary currency, at 4s. 9d. each, but that no person should engage to take more than four in one payment; and French crowns at 5s. and half crowns at 2s. 6d. 54 which he was appointed. The question being put,
Mr. Deverell rose. He recapitulated what he had said on the preceding evening. He stated farther, that the hon.gent. alluded to had spent seventeen or eighteen years in the island of Jamaica, and had only lately left it. It was scarcely probable, therefore, that a man in such circumstances should have left his affairs in such a situation, as not again to require his personal presence. The hon.gent. entered further into a minute discussion of the observations of the Attorney General on the preceding evening, and endeavoured to obviate that right hon. gentleman's objections. He stated, that it would be a very hard case, indeed, if gentlemen should be excluded from attendance on their own private and most interesting affairs; affairs in which their happiness and personal respectability were deeply implicated, merely because they had been appointed on a committee, the business of which might be otherwise executed without, injury to the public. He appealed to the feelings of the house. Was it a case to which anygent. present would wish, to submit. He alluded to a precedent, where nine out of fifteen had sat and transacted the busines of an election committee, whereas even in case of the hon. gentleman's absence, there would still, according to the Attorney General, be eleven on the Water-ford committee.
The Attorney General rose. It was far, he said, from his intention to oppose the private interests of any member of that; house, and in regard to the gentleman alluded to, he would be the last to throw any obstruction in his way. So much was this the case indeed, he said, that if the question, were at this moment put, it would be more agreeable to find that the gentleman should obtain leave of absence than that he should not. To be refused, indeed, in such circumstances, he thought would be a very hard case; and let it be brought home to the feelings of any gentleman here present, he was as sensible as the hon.gent. who, spoke last, that no one could deny the force of his argument. The hon.gent. had stated that he had said the whole of the business would be at a stand, should more of the members be absent than now were. This was not directly the idea he had expressed. He had meant to say, that if one, two, or three, were permitted to absent themselves upon business, others, might claim the, same privilege, and of course no reliance could he placed upon any committee ap- 55 pointed by the house; and such really was the case in the present instance; three had already dropped from the committee in question, and this motion went to authorize the absence of a fourth. The right hon.gent. concluded by saying, that where the private interests of the individual and those of the public were put in competition, his own private feelings would be too ready to lead him to give a preference to the individual; interest; but, at the same lime, he could not conceal his anxiety, that the house should not be forward to establish precedents that Were too likely to be followed, to the injury of the public service. With regard to precedents, he had taken much pains to search for them; and he could find no precedent, where a member for private business was indulged, but in a temporary absence; in which case, the committee was adjourned, till it could have the benefit of his attendance. Painful as it would be to him, he should, therefore, vote against the motion.
Mr. W. Dundas rose, and requested that the house would pause, before it should determine in a case of such importance, where they had nothing before them, but the general assertion of an individual, to direct their judgment. Suppose, he said, I wish to go to Scotland? If you establish a precedent of this kind, will it not be natural for me to plead business, and to direct your attention to this very precedent, which you are about to create?
Mr. Bragge observed, that it must be in the recollection of the house, that there was no precedent in England that could apply to this motion, and as committees for the trial of Irish elections were now in this country, no arguments could be adduced on the present question, but those of expediency only. It therefore remained with the house to establish or not, as they should think proper, a precedent on the present occasion.
The Speaker, before he put the question, stated to the house, the number of precedents of absence, granted to members, from committees, to be eight; four of which, were for total absence, in consequence of the death of near relations. Of the other four, two were for private business, and but for two days; and the committees were in both cases adjourned, till the expiration of the two days. The remaining two were, first, the case of the Okehampton petition Mr. Pelham, one of the members of the committee for trying which, was also water bailiff to the court of sewers, and had obtained a total release from attendance on the committee, in consequence of his presence being essential to the discharge of his other duties. 56 The second, was the case of Shaftesbury, in which case, Sir Richard Worsley, who was also mayor and returning officer of another place, obtained a release from attendence on the committee, in consideration of the calls of duty in his corporation. The question being put by the Speaker, there was a call to divide the house, when there appeared for the motion 45, and against it 54. The motion, of course, was negatived by a majority of 9.
|
S1V0001P0_9442d0865643a776
| null |
[WATERFORD ELECTION COMMITTEE.]
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 1168}
|
[MINUTES.]—
Mr. Smith informed the house, that his Majesty had been waited upon with the address of this house, and had ordered the proper officers to prepare and lay before the house, the several estimates accordingly.—Sir P. Stephens presented estimates of the expense of maintaining prisoners of war, sick and in health; also an estimate of the expense of transport service, for the year 1804. These estimates were ordered to lie on the table; and Sir P Stephens gave notice, that he should move them in the committee of supply to morrow.—Mr. Hobhouse brought up the report of the committee of supply. The resolutions were agreed to, nem. con. —Lord Castlereagh brought in his bill, for regulating the interest on East-India bonds. The bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday, and to be printed.—Mr. Vansittart brought in the bill for continuing the restriction, on payments in specie by the Bank of England. Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second lime tomorrow. Mr. Hobhouse brought up the report of the committee of Expiring Laws. The resolutions were for the continuation of the act 39 Geo. III. for prohibiting the exportation, and encouraging the importation of corn the act for regulating the trade with Malta; the act of last session, relating to the drawback on the exportation of sugar; and the act relating to the exportation of sugar to Ireland. The resolutions were post- 57 poned, and referred to a committee of the whole house to sit tomorrow.—The house went into a committee on Mr. Jarvis's bill, for preventing the desertion and collusive arrests of seamen. Several verbal amendments were made, the blanks were filled up, and the report ordered to be received tomorrow.—Mr. Vansittart moved, that tomorrow the house should resolve itself into a committee, to consider of ways and means, for rating the supply granted to his Majesty.—The Chancellor of the Exchequer gave notice, that to-morrow, in the committee of ways and means, he should move, that leave be given to bring in a bill to empower his majesty to raise five millions, by loan, on exchequer bills, for the service of the year 1804.—The Chancellor of the Exchequer gave notice, that to-morrow, in the commute of ways and means, he should move the land and malt taxes, for the year 1804.—The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved, that there be laid before the house an account of the outstanding exchequer bills, on the 1st December, 1802, and 1st December, 1803. respectively.
|
S1V0001P0_4632d634cd004dea
| null |
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 424}
|
|
Sir William Scott rose to move for leave to bring in a bill to encourage the residence of stipendiary curates. It would, he said, be in the recollection of gentlemen, that a bill had been brought forward on this subject last year, which had passed that house, but was rejected in another place, on account of a money provision, which had been annexed to it, of such a nature as to be conceived inconsistent with the forms of that place. He had the satisfaction to state, that it was not now necessary to annex to the bill any such provision, as intimation had been given, that it was intended to bring forward a separate measure, for the purpose of providing, in a less objectionable way, for those of that deserving class of men, the stipendiary curates, who should be displaced, by the operation of the bill for enforcing the residence of the clergy. The bill, which he should propose, would, therefore, be the same with that which the house had passed in the last session, with the addition of a clause, which would facilitate its operation, and the omission of the clause, in consequence of which, the former bill had been rejected in the upper house. If leave should be given to bring in the bill, his intention was, that it should be read a first and second time, as soon as the forms would admit, and then printed and left some time for consideration.—Leave being given, the bill was accordingly brought in, and read a first time, and 58 ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. It is then to be committed, in order to fill up the blanks pro forma, when it is to be printed; and after a sufficient interval for consideration, to be recommitted for discussion.
|
S1V0001P0_ab37a6b6576dc18c
| null |
[STEPENDIARY CURATES BILL.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 301}
|
The Chancellor of the Exchequer (who was not in the house when Sir William Scott made the above motion) said, he understood that a motion had just been made, and leave given, to bring in a bill similar to that of last session, to encourage the residence of stipendiary curates. It would be in the recollection of gentlemen, that in the progress of the former bill, a motion had been made, for the house to go into a committee, to consider of the propriety of making compensation to such curates as should be deprived of their cures by the bill for enforcing the residence of the clergy. The provision, which the committee thought it adviseable to make, had been incorporated with the bill, and the bill had been rejected in the other house as informal, it was now designed, to bring forward a plan, for the relief of these deserving men, in a separate bill. He should therefore move, "that the house should tomorrow, resolve itself into a committee of the whole house, to consider of the expediency of affording a temporary relief to such curates as have been or shall be displaced, in consequence of the act of last session, for enforcing the residence of the clergy." He was authorised to state, that the proposition had the consent of his Majesty.
|
S1V0001P0_3c849067dfd51353
| null |
[CURATES RELIEF BILL.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 222}
|
Mr. Dent moved for leave to bring up a petition from the merchants of Liverpool, praying for leave, to bring in a bill, to enable I hem to fortify their harbour and town at their, own expense.—The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, the petition was recommended by his Majesty, so far as the crown was concerned.—The petition was accordingly brought up and read. It stated, that the commander in chief, and other general officers of that district, had represented the harbour and town of Liverpool to be in a very inadequate state of defence. The mayor, bailiffs, and other officers of the corporation, having, on their part, offered to raise a great portion of the necessary fortifications at their own expense, the merchants wished to con tribute to carry the plan into full effect, so that floating batteries may be stationed across the mouth of the harbour, and by erecting batteries on such points of the coast as were thought to require fortification. For this purpose voluntary donations had been sub- 59 scribed, but the amount of them being insufficient, it was wished to raise the remainder of the necessary sum by loan, as a security for which the merchants were willing to pledge their ships, and other property. It was to enable them to raise this loan, that the aid of Parliament was required.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that though some of the gentlemen near him had communicated to him the substance of the petition, he was not acquainted with the form of it, till he had heard it read. If he had been aware of the words, in which it was expressed, he would not have exercised in its favour, the discretion which his Majesty had vested in him, to give the approbation of the crown where he should think it called for. What were the avowed designs of the enemy, referred to in the petition; and what the zeal and spirit of the merchants of Liverpool to resist these designs, which he had no doubt were as great as those of any other class of his majesty's subjects, were matter, into the discussion of which, be was not now disposed to enter. There were, however, words in the petition, which, if the house should order a bill according to the petition, would render that bill objectionable. The petition alluded to works to be raised for the defence of the harbour and town of Liverpool; the house would not countenance the raiding of any works, without the express order of the King. He gave every credit to the zeal and public spirit, from which the petition originated. This remark, he was called upon to make, by his not being aware of the particulars of the petition when he gave, his Majesty's consent; a defect which the house itself would correct, and which it would allow him to supply. He recollected an instance of a similar petition in 1798. He had not then objected, for he could not make any objection; but his sentiments were such as he now slated, and he was glad to find they had the approbation of the chair. [The Speaker appeared by signs to coincide in the sentiment of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.] It would be for the house to decide, whether it would sanction the precedent then established.
Mr. Creevey thought it never had been conceived by the inhabitants of Liverpool, that their town and harbour were particularly in want of fortifications. During the last war, and all former wars, they looked upon themselves as perfectly secure; but now the commander in chief of their district (Prince "William of Gloucester) found out that Liverpool was a very vulnerable place, and very much in danger of attack. If, contrary to his own judgment and that of many others, 60 such fortifications were necessary, let them be defrayed, as they ought to be, by the public; let them not be imposed as a partial and heavy burthen on Liverpool itself, but let them be erected, at the general expense of the nation. It was, besides, an error to conceive that the expense would fall on the majority of the inhabitants, if the money were to be raised in the manner proposed by the petition: it would fail on a very small part of these inhabitants.
Mr. Dent moved, that the petition be referred to a committee, to consider the matter thereof, and to report the same as it should appear to them to the house.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer begged to be understood, not to pledge himself to the measure, by giving his Majesty's consent, so far as his Majesty was concerned. He had given it thus qualified, in order not to debar the petition from coming before the house.
Mr. Dent said, the measure proposed in the petition, had certainly the sanction of the majority of the most respectable merchants of Liverpool. The town had already raised a considerable sum by subscription. Twenty thousand pounds had been raised, but that was not sufficient; it was to supply the deficiency, that the measure stated in the petition was resorted to. If assistance was necessary, he was sure, though he had no pledge, that it would be afforded. It would have been highly indecent in the town, when informed by so high an authority as its commander in chief, and the general officers under him, not to shew the greatest alacrity to come forward in the most liberal manner.—The petition was referred to a committee.
|
S1V0001P0_e477e6e5268cbcd7
| null |
[FORTIFICATION OF LIVERPOOL.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 923}
|
Mr. Wharton, from the Bank of England, presented at the bar, "an account of the number and amount of bank notes in circulation on the 1st of June, the 1st of August, the 1st of October, and the 25th of November, I803, distinguishing those under £5." Ordered to he on the table, and to be printed.—On the motion of Sir W. Scott, the stipendiary curates bill was read a second lime; committed pro forma, the blanks filled up, the report received, and the bill as amended, ordered to be taken into further consideration on Wednesday next.—Mr. Hobhouse brought up the report of the seamen's desertion bill, which was agreed to, and the bill ordered to be read a third time on Monday next.—On the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the bank restriction bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow.—The house then resolved itself into a committee of ways and means; in which, the Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the following resolutions; that the duty on malt, mum, cyder, and perry, imposed by the 43d of his present Majesty, which was to expire on the 24th of June, 1604,be further continued till the 24th of June, 1805; that the 4s. in the pound to be raised on all pensions, offices, &c. till the 25th of March, 1804, do continue to be raised on the same till the 25th of March, 1805; that the duties on sugar, tobacco, snuff, &c. imposed by the different acts of Parliament, do continue to be further raised upon the same till the 25th of March, 1805. These resolutions were severally put and agreed to.—The Secretary at War presented an estimate of the expence of guards and garrisons, which was ordered to he on the table. He then gave notice, that, on Friday next, he should submit the army estimates to the consideration of the house.—Sir Philip Stephens moved the order of the day, for the house to resolve itself into a committee of the whole house, to consider further of a supply to be granted to his Majesty; which being read, he moved, That the several accounts presented, of the ordinaries and extraordinaries of the navy, be referred to the said committee. Ordered.—The house haying formed, itself into a com- 62 mittee of the whole house; Sir Philip moved; that a sum, not exceeding 2,670,000 l. 9 s. 9 d. be granted to his Majesty for the ordinaries of the navy, including the half-pay of navy and marine officers, for 1804. Granted; that 948,520l. be granted for building, re building, and repairing ships of war in his Majesty's dock-yards, over and above the ordinary wear and tear, for the year 1804. Granted.—The chairman was ordered to report progress, and to ask leave to sit again.—Report ordered to be received to-morrow morning.—Sir Philip Stephens gave notice, that he should, on Monday, move to refer die estimates of the probable expense of transports, prisoners of war, &c. to a committee of the whole house.—Mr. Vansittart moved the orders of the day, on the report of the committee on expiring laws, which being read, he moved the continuance of all the last regulations respecting corn, permitting the importation, and prohibiting the exportation of it; renewing also the regulations respecting the drawback on the exportation of sugars, &c. and renewing also the regulations respecting various articles that have been permitted to be imported without payment of duty; renewing likewise all the last regulations respecting the trade, &c. of Malta till after peace, &c. which were all agreed to.—Mr. Vansittart moved for leave to bring in a bill to indemnify such persons in Great-Britain as have omitted to qualify themselves for offices and employments, and justices of the peace who have omitted to deliver in their qualifications, officers of boroughs, &c. as required by law, &c. Granted.—Mr. Vansittart then moved, That there be laid before the house, an estimate of the charges of barracks in Great-Britain and Ireland, from the 25th of December, 1803, to the 25th of December, 1804. Ordered.—He concluded by moving an address to his Majesty, praying that he would be graciously pleased to give directions for that purpose. Agreed to.—Mr. Corry gave notice that he would to-morrow, move for leave to bring in a bill for continuing the acts relative to the importation of provisions to Ireland, and also for continuing the sugar act.—The right hon. gent, then observed, that as the act which passed last session, respecting the issue of what is called in Ireland silver-notes, would expire on the 1st of January, 1804, and as he thought it necessary to wait for information, from gentlemen of that country, respecting the state of that species of circulating credit, he should, on Monday, move for leave to bring in a bill to suspend, for a limited time, that prohibitory act, in order 63 to give Parliament an opportunity to receive the desired information.
|
S1V0001P0_68d4f91cc682dfff
| null |
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 823}
|
|
The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the order of the day, that the house do now resolve itself into a committee, to consider of the most effectual and expedient mode of affording a temporary relief to curates, who might be deprived of their cures, by the operation of the clergy residence act, passed last session.
Sir Robert Buxton expressed his opinion, that this was a business which deserved the most serious attention of the house. Nobody, said the honourable baronet, can feel more than I do, the inconveniencies to which that valuable body of men, the stipendiary curates, may for a time be subjected, if no relief can be granted them by the legislature. But whilst I look on this side, of the question, and admit the expediency of affording relief to these men, who must otherwise labour under considerable difficulties, I ought not to neglect to glance a little at the other side, and observe the circumstances that form more than a counter-balance to the necessities of the curates, and that is the necessities of the country. In the present situation of the country, so burthened with taxes, to support the arduous contest in which we are engaged, nothing can excuse a compliance with an application of this sort, but the most absolute necessity. In the present instance, I am by no means satisfied, that such a necessity does exist. The clergy, who before kept curates, but who are now compelled to reside on their livings, may very well spare a maintenance for those who were in the habit of performing the duty of their functions, until another provision shall occur. The clergy are certainly able to afford this expense, as it is notorious, that the value of their livings have of late received a very ample increase. These few observations, I have thought it my duty to throw out at present; at the same time pledging myself, that whenever any subject of expenditure, that is not indispensably necessary, does come before the house in the present circumstances of the country, I shall uniformly and strenuously object to it.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer agreed, that nothing could be more commendable than the cautious jealousy expressed by the hon. baronet, respecting the application of the public money. He was anxious, however, that the house should rightly understand the object of the present motion. It was merely meant to do away an informality which has crept into a similar bill, brought forward last session, even after the commencement of 64 hostilities, and which passed through all its stages in that house, without having met with one dissentient voice. When the bill for enforcing the residence of the clergy, was under consideration last session, it was generally acknowledged, that its operation must press hard upon a certain description of curates, who might be reduced, both themselves and their families, to great distress, by the passing of that bill. It was not then, neither is it now, intended) to make full and general compensation to all of that description, who may be deprived of their cures; but merely to rescue from the most ruinous indigence, many meritorious curates, who may be more particularly injured by the non-residence bill. He was as sensible as any gentleman could be, of the propriety of observing a system of rigid economy; but he was as equally satisfied, that the house would not wish that any system of that nature should stand in the way of the generosity, he had almost said the justice, which certain individuals, under certain circumstances, might have to expect at their hands, The house would, no doubt, the more incline to that opinion, when they understood that the sum to be proposed, for answering this object, was not to exceed 8,000 l. and that that sum, small as it was, would be under the restrictions imposed by a bill which had already received the unanimous approbation of the house. He had only to repeat, that the object of the bill went merely to procure a temporary relief for indigent curates, and that the amount of that relief was not to exceed 8,000 l. —The house having agreed to the motion, the right hon. gent, moved, "that a sum not exceeding 8,000 l. be granted for the relief of such curates as should be deprived of their cures in consequence of the bill compelling the residence of the incumbents." This motion was agreed to, and the resolution immediately reported.
|
S1V0001P0_9bda3d6c5f64df4a
| null |
[CURATES RELIEF BILL.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 746}
|
The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in a committee of ways and means, drew the attention of the committee to the notice which he had given yesterday, of his intention to move this day, for leave to issue exchequer bills to the amount of five million. He stated, that he had a satisfaction in mentioning, what he had no doubt the committee would feel a pleasure in hearing, that this motion, if agreed to, was the only application that would be made, for any supply, until a very advanced period of the session. He had also to observe with pleasure, that all the outstanding bills of 1802 were now paid off and that those only were in circulation, that were issued on the credit 65 of the services of 1803, 4,500,000 l. of which remained to be paid off. If the committee acceded to the present motion, there would also be an opportunity for the issue of new exchequer bills, for which there was now a considerable demand. So much would consequently be taken from the supply of the year; but the whole of what he now moved for would be necessary for the public service, till the advanced period of the session, when the whole of the supply was voted, if particular information was called for on any of these points, he should be ready to give every explanation in his power. He concluded by moving, "that the sum of five millions be raised by loan on exchequer bills, for the service of the year 1804." This motion being agreed to, the house resumed, and the report was ordered to be received to-morrow.
|
S1V0001P0_5f76667e2fe43946
| null |
[EXCHESUER BILLS.]—
|
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 273}
|
Mr. Secretary Yorke. I rise, Sir, in consequence of a notice which I gave a few days ago, for leave to bring in two bills to continue two acts; the one for suspending the Habeas Corpus Act, and the other for the re-enactment of Martial Law in Ireland. The house may be assured, that it is with the sincerest regret for the circumstances which render this measure necessary, that I now come forward to perform this painful duty. I am sorry to be obliged to propose any measure that may trench upon the liberies of the subject, or any of those blessings which this country justly values at so high a rate. But, Sir, it is the misfortune of the times in which we are destined to live, that we are not permitted to enjoy our lives, our liberties, or our possessions, without being daily called upon to sacrifice some part of our privileges in order to preserve the remainder, to sacrifice the best blood of the country in support of the contest in which we are engaged, and to abridge our liberties in order to preserve the existence of liberty itself. But this is no more than our ancestors often thought proper to do. There exists, however, this lamentable difference, that the periods during which it was necessary to resort to measures of this sort, were extremely short with them; but we can never rest in complete security, nor think either our privileges or our lives in safety, while France, after spreading devastation and death over her tributaries on the continent, looks with malignant envy on the happy spot, and longs to extend her fiend-like fangs to crush us also, and level us 66 with the lowest of her slaves. It will be needless for me to state more particularly than I have done, the object of these bills. It will be recollected that they passed towards the conclusion of last session, inconsequence of a message from his Majesty, stating the insurrection that had broken out in the city of Dublin, and the atrocious circumstances with which it was attended. The house very properly passed those acts without any hesitation; when passed, they gave confidence to the loyal inhabitants of Ireland, and enabled them to suppress the rebelion with celerity. The particular circumstances which gave rise to and accompanied that most unhappy transaction, has now been developed by the trials of several of the leaders and their adherents, before the ordinary courts of judicature, and according to the ordinary forms of law. The proceedings on these occasions have been published, and to them I refer the house fur information whereon to found their judgment, as to the nature and extent of the conspiracy, as well as to the expediency of the present motion. Exclusive of the information contained in these trials, his Majesty's government are in possession of other facts, which the house must feel it would be highly improper to attempt to detail at the present moment. I may, however, be permitted to state, that notwithstanding the declaration of one of them (Emmett), I have every reason to believe, that the leaders of that insurrection were connected with persons residing in France, and those persons, traitors, immediately connected with the French government, if the conspirators were not immediately connected with it themselves. It is also clear, that some of the traitors who were in France, came over to Ireland for the purpose of exciting rebellion, and that they calculated upon the renewal of hostilities between this country and France, and chose that moment for exciting rebellion, as the most favourable crisis for patting in execution their nefarious designs. It is, indeed, clear, from all that has come to the knowledge of government, that the great object of the French government was to foster and increase treason and rebellion in Ireland, with a hope of distracting and dividing the British empire, and finally leading to the subversion of the country: but the perfidy of the enemy was defeated, and his hope was vain. With respect to the events of the 23d of July, the details are before the public, and it is I not necessary to enlarge upon then. The 67 horrid tale is known; and, perhaps, in all the history of violence, madness, and folly which the world ever presented; there never existed treason more foul, an insurrection more unprovoked, leaders more contemptible, assassination more atrocious, or crimes more horrible.—What followed is extremely well known: most of the leaders have been brought to justice before the ordinary tribunals, which these miscreants wished to put an end to, and exterminate; as evidently appears by their horrible as-assination of one of the brightest ornaments of those tribunals. I hope my right hon. friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) will shortly have it in command from his Majesty, to lay the situation of the family of the much respected, and much lamented nobleman to whom I have alluded (Kihvarden), before the house.—Sir, it becomes my duty to propose the continuance of the acts in question, and I hope that, as far as concerns the manner in which these acts have been made use of, there will be no objection. All the criminals have, notwithstanding the powers vested in the Irish government, been tried in the ordinary form, except in one solitary instance, where a person who endeavoured to seduce a soldier from his allegiance, was justly and properly tried by martial law. Of the necessity for these measures no man can entertain a doubt, who has taken any trouble to make himself acquainted with the state of Ireland, or who is at all aware of the views of the French government, with whom it has been a long favoured plan to attack the empire on the side of Ireland. The enemy is aware that it is only by dividing and diverting the strength of this country, that she cm insure success; for united, the British empire single handed, is more than a match for all France. Provided parliament and government be on their guard, there is little reason to fear either foreign or domestic enemies. As to the latter, indeed, I am persuaded there are few, very few now to be found in this country. I regret that there are more in Ireland, although their numbers are greatly diminished. But let their numbers be great or small, they must be met with firmness and resolution. They must be made sensible that this house will never compromise with traitors, nor suffer them to clothe themselves with the whole armour of the law, whilst they are secretly attacking the government, and the senate, and all loyal subjects, with the concealed weapons of assassination,—I therefore move, Sir, "that 68 leave be given to bring in a bill to continue, for a time to be limited, the suspension of the Habeas Corpus act in Ireland."
The Hon. C. Hely Hutchinson. —With most of the sentiments expressed by die right hon. gent, who has just sat down, I rise to declare my perfect concurrence; and I am happy to feel justified in assuring the house, that the conduct of the government of Ireland since the insurrection, meets with my entire approbation. Their firmness and humanity; their activity and attention, entitles them to the utmost praise. They have in a great measure pursued that line of policy, which the wise and just would always recommend to be observed towards Ireland. Their temper and lenity have tended to cultivate the good opinion of the people; which was precisely the course, which, at the close of the last session of parliament, I had entreated should be adopted; an exhortation by the bye, which seemed to have been much misconceived; and for offering which, I became the subject of severe and unmerited censures, from particular quarters: several paragraphs (I should be ashamed to suppose from authority) were inserted in some of the Dublin papers, and also in those of this city, tending to decry the individual who had attempted to call the attention of parliament to the affairs of Ireland. I was quite unconscious, on that occasion, of having given any provocation to the friends of the noble earl, at the head of the government of that country. Such was not my object; as it was, and is, matter of indifference to me, by whom the offices of state are filled, provided government be well administered: in the mode of that administration I am, so far as relates to Ireland, particularly, interested. Connected to her by all the sacred ties which can bind an individual to his country, strengthened by a respect for the talents, a regard for the virtues, and a warm sympathy in the wishes of its inhabitants: eager as I feel for their welfare, rejoicing in their prosperity, and participating in their afflictions, I cannot but sincerely lament the necessity which ministers feel themselves under, for again resorting to parliament, for the measures now proposed. But, that under the present circumstances of that unhappy country, it is advisable thus to strengthen the hands of the executive, I cannot entertain a doubt: and I feel the less reluctance in again entrusting the Irish government with these extraordinary powers, when I reflect upon the moderation and lenity with which they have hi- 69 therto been exerted: and having on a former occasion expressed my regret, that the conciliating conduct, and uniform attentions of Lord Hardwicke and his family to the people of Ireland, had not been met by that co-operation of legislative exertion, which I for one had anxiously recommended, I cannot but lament, that this my avowed opinion, should have been either totally suppressed, or perverted.—I trust, I shall not, in the few observations I am about to make, subject myself to the imputation of wishing improperly to obtrude the; discussion of the state of Ireland. Of misrepresentation alone do I feel the least apprehension: on a very late occasion, I had an opportunity of adverting to the situation of that country, I mean when the motion was under consideration for an address to his Majesty, but I abstained from any comment upon the speech from the throne, not wishing to disturb the unanimity, or damp the zeal which prevailed in the house; and because I felt, that at such a period, when attacked by the most inveterate enemy, and the most ambitious government, this country ever had Jo encounter, no man of loyalty, or of understanding, should hesitate to declare his resolution, unburthened by conditions and unalloyed by expressions of discontent, to support hi" Majesty in the prosecution of a war, in which, in my humble judgment, his empire is necessarily engaged. I was sincerely glad to hear from my Sovereign on the day to which I have alluded, that rebellion had been put down in Ireland, and that the public tranquillity had suffered no farther interruption; and I sincerely joined in the hope, that "such of his deluded subjects as had swerved from their allegiance, had been convinced of their error, and that upon a comparison of the advantages they derive under a free constitution, with the situation of those countries that have fallen under the yoke of the government of France, they will not hesitate to co-operate with his Majesty, in zealously resisting every attack which may be made upon the security and independence of the united kingdom." Of this "fair return to loyalty," I could entertain little doubt, were they fully acquainted with the miseries accumulated, on the unfortunate nations who have been forced to wear the galling chains of the republican despot. But I may be suffered, I trust, to hope, that by that passage in his Majesty's speech, ministers do not mean to hold out an opinion, that because the situation of Ireland may be preferable to that of those countries, pillaged and enslaved by France, that, therefore, it does not require 70 any improvement. What, I would ask, can the minister mean by this comparison?—Is I it that because Ireland is less oppressed, less persecuted, that, therefore, its inhabitants should be compleatly reconciled to the conduct of the British government, and thoroughly satisfied with their condition? Is it possible that it can be seriously designed, from a consideration of the difference in degrees of human misery, to decline entering into the investigation of the affairs of re-land? If such be the purport of this insinuation, it cannot be too strongly condemned. Such a mode of reasoning could only be justified on the prepostetous supposition, that nations should be happy and contented, as long as they see others more wretched than themselves; and it is something new in the history of this country to derive, an argument against any project for ameliorating the condition of its people, from a comparison with the state of other countries, and particularly with such as are subjected to arbitrary government. Would the Irish in 1782 when demanding in the bold tone of freedom, and the irresistible language of reason, the establishment of their rights, have tamely listened to any objection to their claims drawn from a reference to the comparative depression and poverty of their situation but a few years before?—Would the haughty barons of England, who in the 13th century so nobly con ended for that charter which forms the basis of British liberty, have consented to have withdrawn their pretensions, and abandoned their claims, had they been reminded, that their situation was still preferable to that of the barons of France, and of the other neighbouring states? No; they would have indignantly spurned at those, who should have presumed to influence them by such a consideration and have redoubled their energies for the attainment of their objects. But, to refer to a more modern, and a still more glorious epoch of your history, would those illustrious characters of 1688, who accomplished the ever memorable revolution of that day, which at length clearly ascertained the rights, and irrevocably established the independence and happiness of this realm, would, I ask, an artifice so shallow, a comparison "o insulting, have induced them to have been false to their country, to themselves, and to you? If the comparison to which I have alluded, be urged for the purpose of communicating to the people of Ireland, that they have to change in their condition to expect, I cannot refrain from declaring that I fear it will be productive of the worst consequence 71 and should be inclined to attribute it to the I extreme of folly or of wickedness.—I do tell the light hon. gent, on the treasury bf rich, that he cannot confidently reckon on the warm and effectual support of the empire in this great struggle, unless he be just to the people.—It was with no small degree of regret, I understood him to have declared, that "he was not aware of the probability "under the present circumstances of any "discussion upon the situation of Ireland "being attended with any other than the "most dangerous consequences." If it be meant by this observation, that the consideration of these subjects should be postponed till after the conclusion of the war, I assert, that such an idea is an insult to the magnanimity and good sense of parliament.—What I shall it be said that at a time, when all the. strength which the empire is capable of affording may be necessary, that one important part, known to be diseased, shall be left without care or remedy, and suffered to go on decaying until, become rotten, it be irrecoverably lost? Good God! at a crisis the most awful, in a contest the most tremendous in which this country ever was engaged, likely to be terminated only by the downfall of one of the contending powers, a contest for which we require all the strength and power which unanimity only can afford, at such a moment, to hesitate in adopting a system of conciliation is monstrous!!! Will it be objected that a time of war is unseasonable for the discussion of this important subject: upon what ground?—That there are grievances, and heavy ones too, under which the. greater part of the Irish people labour, is not, cannot be disputed: this being admitted, it is unjust to procrastinate the redress of them till the issue of the present contest; for aught we know, to an indefinite period, and that too, without any pledge or hope that even after the termination of the war, the government would be disposed to make concessions or afford relief.—As to the policy of neglecting the state of Ireland during the war, I shall say that it becomes highly criminal, when the right hon. secretary has this moment declared that the British Empire, provided it were united, might single-handed, defy the threats with which we are now insulted, and that so convinced of this was the enemy, that he was labouring incessantly to divide us, and to create a party in the empire. Could any stronger argument than this be advanced by me, or those who think with me on the necessity of redressing the grievances of the Irish people as soon, as possible? I am of the same 72 opinion with the right hon. gent., that Buonaparté and his agents are sowing discord, and fomenting the passions of that people in order to distract, divide, and weaken our forces, as well as to embarrass his Majesty's councils.—Taking this for granted, what shadow of objection can be made against the introduction and discussion of a measure, the object and result of which is to detach from die enemy, those on whose assistance he may rely. No motive, no reasonable cause of discontent ought to be left, on which he may attempt to act.—Here again I must declare, that no system of government however defective, no complaint however founded, can justify the subject at this hour of general danger, when his country, his religion, his laws, and liberties are attacked, in refusing his cordial support to repel the common enemy.—But, with respect to this cant about the time and circumstances proper for a full enquiry into the state of Ireland, I should be glad to know when such circumstances are likely to arise in the estimation of ministers, for, from their conduct heretofore, it seems impossible to calculate; they have been ministers during peace, and during war, during rebellion and after rebellion has been put down. They have in fact, been nearly three years in power, and have gone through every variety of change and circumstance, and yet, to them, the time for considering the means of improving the condition of Ireland, has never yet arrived; for by them, every season has been deemed improper for the redress of its grievances, and of course under their auspices, the beneficial conseces promised by the advocates of the union, cannot be looked for. On the part of the Irish I complain, that the minister of that day urged as a motive for hurrying on that measure, that the subject of the grievances of Ireland would be brought where it could be discussed with temper, liberality, and wisdom; but, no sooner Was it brought to this side of the water, than it was discovered that it ought not to be brought forward, and for the very same reason, namely, that it would agitate the country and produce the most mischievous consequences.—I big the house to understand that the condition of that people cannot be ameliorated by one, two, or three measures, but by a great and comprehensive system, the result of a fair, and full view of the whole question; adapted to the wants, and calculated to have a permanent operation on the interests of the country. In giving my support to the bills before the house, I confess my disposition to do so, is considerably damped, by observing that mi- 73 nisters manifest no inclination to take such steps as can alone prevent the recurrence of that calamity, against which, these bills are intended to guard, namely by sifting the state of Ireland to the bottom, by deliberating upon it, week after week, and session after session.—I cannot help indulging an ardent hope, from what passed on the first day of this session, that this delicate and important question, will soon be taken up by that great character (Mr. Fox) the enlightened champion of the happiness and independence of mankind, the benevolence of whose heart is as entensive as the views and energies of his mind.—I feel deeply impressed by the liberal indulgence I have experienced from the house, on whose patience I have too much trespassed, but when the affairs of Ireland are agitated, I cannot induce myself to remain silent.
General Loftus. —I rise, Sir, to give my most perfect support to the measures intended to be brought forward by the right hon. Secretary. They are certainly strong measures, but they are the only ones that will give security to he loyal inhabitants of Ireland. I have listened with great satisfaction to the early part of the speech of the hon. gent, who has just sat down (Col. Hutchinson), because I know there is one part of Ireland in which the opinion of 'hat hon. gent, will have considerable weight. As to the question to which the hon. gent, afterwards alluded, I think that a time of war is not the proper period for the discussion of it, or of any question tending to interfere with the constitution. I felt it my duty to say thus much, and I shall sit down with giving my cordial support to the motion.
Mr. Hawthorn. —I shall support the motion, Sir, because, from the observations which I had an opportunity of making during the summer, I am convinced that the measures proposed are necessary for the security of the country. It is of considerable consequence to give strength to his Majesty's government in Ireland, to enable them to meet and put down the efforts of treason and rebellion with vigour and effect. His Majesty, in his gracious speech from the throne, has acquainted the house that the principal actors in the late atrocious insurrection have been brought to justice, and that the deluded multitude are returning to a sense of their duty; it is, therefore, essential to give such powers to his government in that country as will enable them to maintain the tranquillity so happily restored. Besides, the manner in which the Irish government have used the extraordinary pow- 74 ers given in the last session, is the best security that the same powers will not be abused in the present instance. No gentleman. I am sure, will object to the motion of the right hon. Secretary, if he calls to mind the manner in which the rebellion was; conducted up to its breaking out, the circumstances of atrocity with which it was then carried on, the manner in which it was put down, and the effect that the first burst of it had on the public mind. The conduct of the Irish government has been characterised by humanity and mildness. Its great object has been to pass over the circumstances of former insurrections, and to extend the benefit of the ordinary course of justice to the guilty, and that, too, at a time when traitors had returned from France, for the purpose of exciting rebellion in the country. I am, therefore, of the opinion, that the proposed measures are necessary for maintaining tranquillity. As to the other topic which has been adverted to on the first day of the session, as well as on the present occasion, I have ever entertained but one, and only one opinion, and that is, that something should be done, but I do not consider this the proper time for entering upon the question.
Lord Temple said, that he was not unwilling to give his consent to the motion, trusting in the assertion of the right hon. gent (Mr. Yorke), that the necessity actually existed for the renewal of an act which in its preamble stated "the spirit of rebellion and insurrection to be now actually raging in Ireland." His hon. friend, (Gen. Loftus) had said, that a time of war and of danger was not the moment for entering into any question affecting the constitution of Ireland. He begged leave to recall to the memory of his hon. friend, and of his Majesty's ministers, (he was sure it was unnecessary to recall it to the memory of his noble friend, Lord Castlereagh, opposite to him) that during a period of war and a moment of danger very nearly equal to that which now threatens the country, the House of Commons had passed a measure of no less importance than the Act of Union.
Lord Archibald Hamilton could not help feeling some surprise, that any doubt could exist as to the propriety of the time for improving the condition of so important a member of the empire. He meant, however, to make only a few observations on the subject of the motion. To ascertain the situation of that part of the empire it was scarcely necessary to advert to the situation of its capital, in which every inhabitant was obliged to place a list of all 75 the inmates of his house on his door. In such circumstances there could scarcely a doubt exist of the propriety of making some efforts to establish the tranquillity of the country upon some solid and per ma meat grounds. It had been said that this was not the proper time; but the noble lord would ask, what would be a better time? Were we now going on well, or was the country well? This was a crisis when the exertions of every individual in the empire were necessary, for the defence and security of the empire. He contended it was the most proper time to resort to measures that would have the effect of removing every source of complaint, and of uniting every arm in the common cause. His lordship wished to be informed, whether his Majesty's ministers had any specific plan in contemplation for that purpose. There seemed to be but one sentiment in the house with respect to the necessity of uniting heart and hand in the present arduous crisis. He, therefore, again called upon his Majesty's ministers to declare, whether they meant to bring forward any measure but those which had hitherto been pursued in that country. From every thing that had come to his knowledge on that subject, through persons from local information acquainted with it, he thought a different system indispensable, and he drought it the duty of his Majesty's ministers to adopt it. If, however, they should think proper to abandon the interests of that part of the united kingdom, he was of opinion that, in such a case it would be perfectly competent to any individual in the house to bring the question before Parliament.
Mr. Burrows desired to be informed whether the notice of the right hon. Secretary, comprehended both the bills intended to be continued?
The Speaker informed the hon. member, that the motion before the house related only to that for allowing the suspension of the habeas corpus act, for a time to be limited, and that when that should be disposed of, the motion on the other would be put.
Mr. Burrows then rose to state his reason, for putting the question. He was willing to give his ready and perfect concurrence to the first proposition, but on the other question he was disposed to think that some time ought to be allowed before it should be carried into effect. This opinion he entertained not from any concurrence with the observations that had been made this night, or on a former night, tending to shew that the present government of Ire- 76 land was not such as it ought to be, or that affairs were not well nor properly administered in that country; for he was convinced that no system of government was ever better calculated to conciliate the affections of the people, than that now pursued in Ireland. But having said this, he trusted no attempt would be made to bring forward the other law, at least for some time, and particularly as it had not been found necessary in the numerous trials which had already taken place to resort to its provisions, or try any of the culprits by martial law. He hoped, therefore, that the law should not be renewed while Parliament should continue sitting, in order that the people might be impressed with the idea that Parliament, at the same time that it entertained a fixed determination to exterminate rebellion, was wilting to respect the civil rights of the people. The hon. gent. concluded by giving his support to the motion.
Lord Castlereagh rose to offer a few observations in reply to the last speaker. He was happy to find that the hon. gent. had nothing to urge against the character of those who were to be invested with the discretionary power granted by the bill for continuing the use of martial law in Ireland, under such circumstances as might be judged expedient. The hon. gent, had, however, contended that such a bill had never been passed except where strong proofs of its necessity were produced For his own part he would venture to assert, and he would defy any gentleman to disprove his observation, that no measure had so materially contributed to prevent the mischief originating from the rebellion from extending itself, as the very measure which was now made the ground of objection. A great body of loyally had existed in Ireland, during the period that one of the most extensive and most malignant rebellions raged in that country which it was ever the fate of a government to encounter. By the exertions of this assemblage of loyal subjects, that rebellion had been suppressed, and the constitution had been saved from destruction. He must, however, be permitted to say, that it was not till the measure in question had been adopted, that the loyal part of the community were able to feel and to employ their strength. It was not till government was armed with the extraordinary powers with which the measure vested them, that rebellion was attacked in its strong holds and effectually subdued. These were the effects of the measure in putting an end to the rebellion in 1798, 77 and the continuance of the measure at different periods since that rebellion, had operated consequences no less beneficial. The late mad attempt at rebellion, shewed how much improved the state of the country was, and he had no difficulty in ascribing to the operation of the measure which the hon. member had objected to, that vast augmentation of loyalty which had been obtained during the interval which had taken place betwixt the rebellion of 1798 and the late attempt of a handful of deluded and desperate individuals. The experience of past consequences was the strongest inducement to renew the measure at the present moment. The use that hi d been made of the measure, was a wise reason for again resorting to it. Though the government was vested with extraordinary powers, there was no reason to be apprehensive that they would be wantonly employed. The circumstance of government being vested with these powers, was the means of enabling them to resort only to the civil tribunals of the country. The civil tribunals, notwithstanding the existence of these powers, had been appealed to, and the result had been equally honourable to the laws and to the individuals to whom the extraordinary powers were delegated. This ought, in his opinion, to operate as an additional inducement to grant extraordinary powers, when it was ascertained that they were not in any instance abused, when discretion was employed, not in suspending, but in encouraging the operation of ordinary tribunals of justice. The great principle which a wise legislature wished to act upon, was a principle of precaution. Its object was to prevent, and not punish crimes after they were perpetrated. It might be argued, that there was at present nothing in the situation of Ireland to justify a measure which went to the suspension of the ordinary privileges of the constitution. The recent attempt at rebellion had not surely escaped the notice of gentlemen, and it could not in fairness be pretended that tranquillity could be so soon restored as to supersede the necessity of a measure, the beneficial effects of which had been so signally experienced. By the timely interference of the legislature, a great deal of detailed misery which had formerly afflicted the loyal part of the community, had been avoided. For every man who was acquainted with the situation of Ireland knew, that such scenes of detailed misery could not have been prevented unless government had been armed with the powers adequate to the nature of the circumstances in which the country was placed. On the 78 principle that it was wise on the first appearance of the late rebellion to arm government with these powers, he would contend that it was equally wise at the present moment. It would not be denied, that among those deluded individuals who constituted the remains of the rebellion, every effort would be made to interrupt the continuance of tranquillity, more particularly when they were encouraged by the expectation of deriving foreign aid from the enemy holding out threats of immediate invasion. It was therefore to these individuals themselves, an act not of severity but of mercy, to continue the operation of the measure in question. It was necessary by vesting government with these extraordinary powers, to convince them that perseverance in their treasonable designs was hopeless, before they could be induced to return to the habits of peaceable allegiance. When they found that they could not take a single step without being watched; when they saw that their pursuits could be blasted in a moment; when they perceived that government possessed the means of instant and signal punishment, it might be reasonably supposed that they would he induced to abandon pursuits evidently leading to inevitable ruin. It was barely an act of justice to make them take up such a view of their conduct and situation. The idea of rebellion ought to be banished from their thoughts by shewing them that it was a project altogether impracticable. On every consideration of experience, of policy, of justice, and of mercy, he was decidedly for re-enacting the bill. He trusted that the hon. gent, would not be inclined to persist in his opposition, or contend that at least the re-enactment of the bill ought to be deferred. Nothing appeared to him so likely to encourage the loyal part of the community, which had such powerful claims to support. Nothing could so effectually discourage the designs or extinguish the hopes of the disaffected. It was necessary to let the disaffected see that the government possessed the confidence of the legislature, and that they would receive whatever support the exigencies of affairs required. To refuse to invest government with powers which there was no danger of seeing in any instance employed with harshness, would elate the spirits of the deluded victims of rebellion, while it would paralyse the exertions and augment the fears of those firm and patriotic friends of the constitution whom it was the duty of Parliament to support by every possible extension of liberal provision. The noble lord concluded by giving has decided 79 support to the motion.—Leave was granted to bring in the bill. It was accordingly brought in, read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday.
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[SUSPENSION OF HABEAS CORPUS ACT IN IRELAND.]—
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Mr. Secretary Yorke next moved, for leave to bring in a bill to continue, for a time to be limited, the bill of last session, for the Suppression of Rebellion in Ireland, by enabling government to establish martial law. On the motion being put from the chair,
Mr. Burrows rose to express his reasons for opposing the motion. He begged it to be understood that he did not found his objections to it from any want of confidence in those who were to exercise the powers to be granted by the bill. On the contrary, he had the most entire confidence that these powers would in no instance be abused, either by the government of Ireland or the government of this country. His objection was founded on constitutional grounds. He was convinced that it must be a principle with every man who loved the constitution, never to give his assent to a bill conferring such extraordinary powers, without the most urgent and imperious necessity. Acting on this principle, he could not, on the ground of confidence in government, consent to violate the constitution, unless the necessity of such violation was clearly established. When this bill was formerly passed, a rebellion actually raged in Ireland, and ample documents to prove its necessity were laid on the table of the house. At present KO sort of evidence to prove its necessity was brought forward. Had any parliamentary evidence been adduced? Were any facts stated to shew that the re-enactment of the bill was essential to the maintenance of tranquillity in Ireland? Had the house obtained even the bare responsibility of a minister on the subject? Not one of these grounds of the necessity of the measure had been brought before the house. Independant of all information, Members were called on to give their assent to a measure which confessedly violated the free principles of the British constitution. When any description of subjects were to be deprived of a constitutional privilege, it was necessary to proceed with coolness and deliberation. Even while rebellion raged in Ireland he had not heard of resorting to martial law, and suspending all appeal to the civil tribunals, without a considerable portion of anxiety and alarm. But what he desired the house to consider, were the specific grounds on 80 which the introduction of martial law was defended. It was on this principle, that jurors were over-awed in the discharge of their duty, and that witnesses could not come forward to give their testimony without great personal danger. It was because the ordinary tribunals of justice were necessarily shut up, from the causes which he had now stated, that it became necessary to have recourse to military decisions. If the same circumstances now existed, he should, however reluctant to violate the constitution, give his assent to the motion. No such circumstances did, however, exist at this period. Jurors could discharge their duty with the utmost safety. Witnesses could come forward to give their testimony without any apprehension of danger. Persons guilty of rebellion had been arraigned before the ordinary tribunals of justice, had been convicted on the clearest evidence, and had suffered the sentence of the law. If the grounds on which martial law was formerly resorted to did not exist, it was not surely asking too much to require some new grounds for re-enacting a bill vesting the executive government with extraordinary and unconstitutional powers. It certainly was not too much to ask, that if new grounds did exist they should be stated. To assent to a bill of this kind without any grounds was what he never could, under any circumstances, do, acting as a representative to parliament. If the hon. sec. of state was determined to persist in pressing the bill, it was at least fair that he should not precipitate its progress through the house. It would be fair to allow those gentlemen who were more particularly connected with Ireland an opportunity of offering their sentiments on the subject. The number of Irish members now in their place was very inconsiderable, and they had a right to be consulted before the constitutional privileges of their constituents were suspended or violated. He had thought it his duty to throw out these few observations to the house. Before he sat down, he begged leave to repeat, he did not oppose the re-enactment of the bill from any want of confidence in the mode in which it would be applied by ministers. He had no doubt that their application of the powers with which it vested them would be mild and merciful. His objections were, however, founded in respect for the constitution, and the character of the government, and should not induce him to vote for a bill, of the necessity for which not the slightest evidence had been adduced.
Mr. Corry rose to make a few observations 81 in reply. The hon. gent, had said, that in all former cases of the passing of the martial law bill, rebellion actually raged, or tranquillity was very seriously disturbed. He begged leave to set the hon. member right on that head. In the year 1801, this very bill had been not only once but twice renewed in the coarse of the same session, though at that time no rebellion or appearance of rebellion existed from one part of Ireland to another. The hon. gent. seemed to be unacquainted with the history of the rebellion. He did not appear to be aware that the machinations of the disaffected were at their origin carefully veiled in darkness; that their views were gradually disseminated over the country; that it was not till their party was fully organized that they broke out into acts of open rebellion. The wisdom of parliament had been exerted in a number of acts to discover and to disconcert their views. Every effort had been employed to trace out the different relations and bearings of the conspiracy. These efforts had, however, failed of success. Never till the act in question was passed were the designs of rebellion fully ascertained. Never till government was armed with these extraordinary powers was any thing like tranquillity or confidence restored. Though individuals continued to suffer; though acts or insurrection and violence were not altogether destroyed; yet the constitution was saved and the sinews of the rebellion were annihilated. This effect he ascribed, more than to any other cause, to the repeated re-enactments of this bill in the course of the year 1802 and 1803. The hon. gent, however, did not see the necessity of re-enacting the bill at the present period. He had said, that the grounds of its re-enactment formerly was the intimidation of jurors and witnesses in the performance of their duty, but at this moment jurors were unmolested; witnesses could give their testimony without any dread of the consequences; all the ordinary forms of law and of justice were observed. He would not pretend to deny that this description of the state of the country was correct, but he would maintain that the present tranquillity of the country was the effect of the very bill to which the hon. gent, so strongly objected. It was not unknown to the hon. member and the house, that till the bill was passed the system of intimidation was universally prevalent, and the courts of common law were as a matter of necessity shut, not against rebels alone, but against the loyal part of the community, who were 82 making every sacrifice in support of the constitution and the existing government. It was not till the rebels found that they could not prosecute their schemes with any hopes of success, that the strong powers vested in the government rendered their detection and punishment a matter of almost absolute certainty, that continuance in rebellion was only another term for destruction, that they thought of abandoning their traitorous projects, that they sat down in laborious tranquillity, and began to return to the habits of dutiful allegiance. If the hon. member looked to the state of Ireland, merely as it was at this day, his view would be extremely partial and limited. To be able to reason fairly on the subject, it behoved him to look at the progress and various modifications of the rebellion. He ought to compare the means used to spread disaffection with the means employed to check its diffusion among the lower orders. Among these last means, he had the universal testimony of the best informed persons in Ireland, that this measure had been one of the greatest and efficient causes of the return of tranquillity and order, of the possibility of continuing the ordinary exercise of the form of the common law courts of the land. Independent of this measure, the hon. gent, would not this day have had it in his power to notice the present tranquillity of Ireland as an argument against the re-enactment of the bill. So far from viewing the re-enactment of the bill as any act of severity to the loyal and well-disposed part of the community, he viewed it in the opposite light. By all loyal arid well-disposed individuals, it would be considered as a measure not of oppression, but of protection: not of vigour, but of wise precaution, on the part of the government. It would dispel their apprehensions, and give them new energy in their opposition to the designs of the disaffected. It would enable them to check rebellion at its first opening, and leave to them the privilege of appending for the redress of injuries to the ordinary tribunals of their country. The proclamation of martial law, by the exercise of the prerogative was, what every friend to the constitution would be anxious to avoid. It was to avoid the necessity of such a measure, that the bill was originally introduced, and W3s now proposed to be continued. Without such a bill traitors might escape unpunished, and loyal citizens might be deprived of their constitutional privileges, and dragged before military tribunals. On these grounds the bill had his hearty support, and he hoped it would also obtain the support of the house. It was 83 a bill which, from his knowledge of the present state of Ireland, he had no difficulty in pronouncing essential to the continuance of tranquillity.
Mr. John Claudius Beresford begged the indulgence of the house, while he made a few observations. His hon. friend under the gallery, (Mr. Burrows) had urged two objections to the re-enactment of the bill, at least, without more mature consideration. The first objection was, that no facts were produced to justify the necessity of the measure. The second objection was drawn from the thinness of the members particularly connected with Ireland, and best fitted to give information to the house on the subject. With regard to the first objection, it was unnecessary for him to take up the time or attention of the house. His right hon. friend had fully removed this objection, and he heartily agreed with his right hon. friend, that if the measure were not renewed, the same system of terror, which had been alluded to, would immediately be renewed in ail its horrors. With regard to the thinness of the attendance of members connected with Ireland, he should make one or two remarks. Having been very recently in Ireland, and having had occasion to ascertain what were the sentiments of at least three-fourths of the Irish members resident in that country, as to the expediency and necessity of the measure, he requested the house, on his veracity, to be assured, that they were to a man convinced, that the re-enactment of the bill was indispensably necessary to the preservation of tranquillity, and to the protection of all loyal subjects. They were so thoroughly convinced of its necessity, that they expected the re-enactment of the bill would be one of the earliest acts of the session. If they had not indulged such an expectation, they would, at this moment, have been in their places to solicit its re-enactment. This sentiment, of the necessity of the measure, he might add, was not confined to members, but was entertained by every loyal man in every part of the country. He, himself, had been the only Irish member, who had expressed doubts respecting the loyalty of the lower orders, in opposition to the opinion of a number of other most respectable individuals. He rejoiced to find, that the opinion he entertained of the disloyalty of the lower orders was erroneous, and that the spirit of disaffection was much less general than he had dreaded. At this moment all good men of every party were animated with feelings of loyalty, and convinced of the necessity of defending the country against the common enemy. Every man who possessed only 201 84 a year, was now disposed to unite against all foreign and domestic foes. The late insurrection had not a twentieth part of the extent of the rebellion of 1798; and all classes of the people, with an exception of a few of the lower orders, were universally disposed to assist government against an invading enemy.—He was also authorized to state, that it was the wish of all sects in that kingdom, that no question should be brought forward, which might have the effect of agitating the public mind, at a period, when it was so essential, that all descriptions should unite in the defence of their common interests.—Leave was obtained to bring in the bill; which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday.
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S1V0001P0_bea92a6eaf8db05d
| null |
[MARTIAL LAW IN IRELAND.]—
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{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 2268}
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Mr. Carry, pursuant to notice, moved for leave to bring in a bill to continue, for a time to be limited, the restriction on the issues of cash by the bank of Ireland. It was unnecessary for him to urge any reasons to induce the house to agree to his motion. The same motives that induced the house to entertain the bill with respect to the Bank of England, applied to the present case, and as the measure, he proposed, was always consequential to that which had been introduced within a few days by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he should content himself barely with moving, that leave be given. Leave was given.—Mr. Corry then moved, that there be laid before the house, an account of the amount, of bank of Ireland notes, including bank post bills, payable at seven days sight, in circulation on the first days of January, April, June, and September, 1800; also, amount in circulation on the first days of April, May, and June, 1801; also, amount in circulation on the first days of June, August, October, and November, 1802, and first of February, 1803; also, amount in circulation on the first days of January, April, August, and September, 1803; distinguishing, in this last instance, the value of those below the value of five guineas. Ordered.
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S1V0001P0_4530f23273ed3425
| null |
[IRISH BANK RESTRICTION BILL.]—
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{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 220}
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Mr. Hobhouse brought up the report of the committee upon expiring laws. The resolutions were read and agreed to, and bills were ordered to be brought in pursuant to them.—Mr. Secretary Yorke presented a copy of a proclamation issued by the lord lieutenant of Ireland, to prevent distillation from oats and oatmeal in that country. Ordered to be laid on the table.—Mr. Corry 85 gave notice, that on Monday he should move for leave to bring in a bill to indemnify the lord-lieu tenant of Ireland for issuing this proclamation; and also, that he should move for the introduction of a clause into that bill to enable the lord lieutenant to impose such a prohibition, during a time to be limited.—Mr. Hobhouse brought up the report of the committee for considering the propriety of affording a temporary relief to the Curates displaced by the operation of the bill for enforcing the residence of the clergy. The resolution for granting £8000 for this purpose was agreed to.—Sir Francis Burdett presented a petition on behalf of the churchwardens and overseers of the poor of the parish of St. Pancras, in the county of Middlesex, setting forth that the duties of their offices had increased so much that they wanted assistants to be appointed in order to enable them to do justice to their situations, &c. Referred to a select committee.—The Chancellor of the Exchequer gave notice, that on Monday he should move, that a committee be appointed to investigate the joint account between Great-Britain and Ireland, as in the last session.—Mr. Hob-house brought up the report of the committee of supply on certain parts of the naval service voted yesterday. The resolutions were read and agreed to.—Mr. Corry brought in the bill for continuing the. restrictson on payment in specie by the bank of Ireland. Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday.—The bill for continuing the restriction on cash payments by the bank of England, went through a committee. On the motion of Mr. Vansittart, the blank was filled up with the words, "six months after the ratification of a de-"finitive treaty of peace." The report was ordered to be received on Monday.—The House went into a committee to consider of the propriety of renewing, for a further time, the liberty granted for bonding Portugal wines, which had expired on the l0th of October. Mr. Vansittart, in stating the propriety of extending this indulgence, stated also, that it was thought adviseable to give the benefit of it to Spanish wines. A resolution to this effect was agreed to, and being reported, the committee appointed to bring in the bill for the continuation of expiring laws was ordered to make provision accordingly.—Mr. Vansittart brought in the annual bill for indemnifying magistrates and others who had neglected to take the necessary oaths. The bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday.—Mr. Corry gave notice, that he would move in the proper stage to introduce 86 a clause into this bill for extending the benefit of the indemnity to Ireland.
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S1V0001P0_983d36a3b99ccb96
| null |
{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 520}
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The bill for inclosing lands in the manor and parish of Fulbeck, in the county of Lincoln, for making compensation for the tithes arising within the same parish, was read a second time, and committed.—Mr. Manning brought in a bill to enable the London dock-company to raise a farther sum af £500,000 for the con struction of wet docks and other works, for the greater accommodation of the London merchants. Read a first time and ordered to be read a second time.—Mr. Grant ac quainted the House that Col. F. W. Grant, who had been ordered to attend in his place on Wednesday next, had arrived in town, and would attend in his place to-morrow.—Mr. Secretary Yorke presented at the bar, by his Majesty's command, a copy of the convention between his Britannick Majesty and the King of Sweden, signed on the 25ih of July 1803. I Ordered to lie on the table.—Mr. Secretary Yorke moved the second reading of the bill for continuing the suspension of the habeas corpus. act in Ireland. The bill was accordingly read a second time without giving rise to any debate, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. Mr. Pole presented the ordnance estimates for 1804, which were ordered to, lie on the table, and the hon. member save notice that he would, on Friday next, in the committee of supply, move the consideration of these estimates after the army estimates were disposed of.—The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved that a committee be appointed to enquire into the expenditure of the United Kingdom, from the first day of Jan. 1801 and the sums con tributed thereto by Great-Britain and Ire land respectively, and report the same with their opinion thereupon, to the House. And a committee was appointed accordingly 87 —In a committer: of supply the committee on the motion of Sir Philip Stephens, voted the following sums; for the transport service, for the year 1804, £ 709,000;for prisoners of war at home and abroad, £220,000; for sick prisoners of war, £40.000; the House being resumed, the report was presented.—Mr. Corry rose to move for leave to bring in a bill to suspend the act of last session, prohibiting the negotiation of small notes in Ireland. He wished it to be understood that government did not by this means propose any general system or permanent regulation on the subject. They only proposed ibis as a temporary measure till the Irish members hitherto detained at home, by their attention to the defence of their own shores, could be present, and the question could be fully considered. Leave was given and the bill brought in and read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time tomorrow. The House having gone into a committee on expiring laws, a report was agreed, and reported, on which Mr. Corry brought in a bill to suspend certain acts prohibiting the exportation from Ireland, of corn, potatoes and provisions, and to permit their importation for a time to be limited. The bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow—The seamen's desertion bill was read a third time and passed.—The malt duty bill was read a list time, and ordered for a second reading to-morrow.—A bill for continuing and regulating the bounty on sugar exported from Ireland was read a first time and ordered to be lead a second time tomorrow.—The pension, &c. duty bill was read a first time and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.—The curate's relief bill was read a first time and ordered to be read a second time tomorrow.—The bill to suspend the act prohibiting the negotiation, &c. of small notes in Ireland, was read a first time and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.—A bill for continuing an act discontinuing certain bounties on the exportation of sugar, was lead a first time and ordered for a second ceding to morrow.—The live millions exchequer bills bill was read a first time.—The first indemnity bill was tend a first time.
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S1V0001P0_eaf205ae41ab98af
| null |
[MINUTES.]
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{"house": "Commons", "speaker": null, "word_count": 675}
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hansard-historic-archaic
Historic UK Parliamentary debates (Hansard archive) exported to Parquet.
Hansard Series 1-4 (1803-1908)
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- documents: 225624
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metadata.jsonshard_00000.parquet,shard_00001.parquet, ...
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