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Down here, Dallas, seems to me, the police are militant Really. but, uh, Where'd you live up, where'd you live at, I lived in Akron, Ohio. Oh, did you? I'm from , Illinois, so. Oh. How long, how long you been in Dallas? Oh, about eight years. Oh, really? In fact in the eight years I've been here it seems to me it gets more and more, gets to be more and more restrictive place to live. I think, Yeah, uh you know, uh, as you're talking like police and stuff like that it's definitely a tough job to do. Yeah, I think it's, crime has gone, got a lot worse in the last last ten, fifteen years, Oh, yeah,
I agree. and maybe that has a lot to do with it. Yeah, I, I definitely think that has gotten a lot worse, and you know, I, I think there's, to me there seems to be a little bit of a decline in the family values. Yeah, that's true. So, That's true, But, uh, I'd say my own personal lifestyle has improved Yeah. but that's more a matter of, you know I'm no longer a teenager in high school. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's more pressure like on both parents to work, and things like that than there used to be and, Hello.
Somebody's at the door. So. Hang on just a second. Okay. off Okay. But, uh, I don't know, that's just, that's one thing I see, I see a lot more, you know, double income families and a lot more like baby sitters raising the kids and things like that, I guess. Yeah, that's true, it's getting more and more expensive to live. Yeah, that's for sure. You can't, you can't make it, Yeah, without it hardly, that's right. I guess, when I was growing up, it was, it was still the ideal to get a, get a home and buy house, and these days you see a lot of people living in apartments forever Yeah. Yeah
you know, you just don't buy a house, just because they can't get into one, yeah, that's right. Yeah, the ways our tax laws and stuff are structured, you can't ever catch a break until you can get into a house in a lot of ways, Yeah. so. Yeah, that's, that's a good point so, I'm trying to think of anything else that's changed over the last ten or twenty years. Yeah, for me it's kind of hard, I don't know. I think, I don't know, I think the middle class is shrinking and the, uh, lower class is expanding Oh, yeah, I agree. and sooner or later there's going to, there's going to be a turn around. Well, I hope so, you know, at some point but I don't know at what point,
But I think it's going to be at the expense of the middle class, uh Yeah, so, usually is I think. Yeah. It's, uh, It's hard for me to say. I hope it happens, because I'd be one of those that gets caught. But on the other hand, there's a lot of injustice that needs to be, be changed. Yeah, that's right. Do you work at T I? Yeah. Do you? Yeah. What, uh, department do you work in? I'm in semiconductor. Are you? I'm in semiconductor division too. Yeah. So. How long you been with them, since you moved down here?
About eight years, yeah. Um, I'm over at the Center One building. Yeah, so am I. Are you really. What floor? Two. I'm on the seventh floor. Well, How about that. Well, it's a small world. So, so let's see, second floor, you work with, uh, linear. Yeah. Do you. Do you, uh, do you know Alec Morton? Yeah, I've probably seen him around. Oh, you do, huh. Well, he comes up and pushes us around
so, uh, so I'm pretty familiar with, Are you D A D or something up there? Huh? Are you D A D or something? Yeah Yep, you must know him. His reputation precedes him. Yeah, well, seventh floor. Yeah, T A D, Well, uh, he, uh, boy, he comes up there and gives us all kinds of grief. They, they say it's what makes him happy is to give us D A D grief, so I can believe it but, Well. Yeah, let's see, if you've been in Dallas eight years, I guess that's about how long, I've been in here about eight years, too, I guess.
Um, been with T I like twelve, but I started out in Lubbock. Lubbock is, I don't know, I guess if this is the only place you've lived, Lubbock is a lot different than Dallas. Yeah, flat, dry and dirty, Yeah. Yeah, but the people all seem to be a lot more laid back, too, I mean, here in Dallas everything is just real rush, rush. Yeah, I lived in the country for several years, and living in the city is a whole different uh, social structure Oh yeah. but, uh, Well, I got some friends that, uh, seems like he went to school at like DeVry. Is there a DeVry in Akron? I don't even know
Oh, I haven't been up there in years. Oh, I see, well, he went to school somewhere in Ohio, and he's from that area, and, uh, he works over in the Park, Park Central building I think but, uh, I haven't talked to him in a while, but, um, yeah, he, he misses it. He used to go back twice or three times a year, you know, because he missed it. Sounds like you haven't been back there in a while. No, I haven't been back in ten, fifteen years. You still have relatives back there or, Yeah, I do, I just haven't had a chance to get back Oh. Catch them next year probably.
Really. Well, let's see, how, how long are we supposed to talk here? I don't know, I think we ran out of social, social changes to talk about, so. Yeah, well my kids are probably needing me to go so Okay, all right, well, it's nice talking to you. Yeah, Talk to you later. All righty, bye. Bye. Well, Kathleen, do you believe that there is a problem with our public school system? I certainly do. Uh, I think ... I think we have a lousy school system.
And what do you think that problem is? And I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we don't train our teachers very well. And then we put the schools in the hands of professional educators instead of the teachers and the parents. And then, oh, we don't, uh, we put too much, uh, responsibility on the teachers, for things that are really not education. They're social services. Huh. That seems like you've thought this through quite a bit before. Well, I, as a matter of fact, I just finished editing a book on the topic. So I have some rather strong opinions. That's interesting. Do you, like a uh, yourself ... And, and I'm sure they're colored by what I've edited. Do youself have children who are or have been through the public school system? Yes, I do. And I was not very happy with the results. I see. So if you were to improve it, what would you do to improve it? Well, I think I would start with a with getting rid of about two-thirds of the administrators. And all the auxiliary personnel. The school bureaucracy that exists mainly to perpetuate itself. Uh-huh. Right.
And then I would provide, uh, use the money that we've paying them to, uh, provide some special help in training and particularly, uh, mentor teachers to work with the beginning teachers and the teachers who may have been at it a long time but have been making the same mistakes for a long time Uh-huh. Sure. Sure. And then let them try some innovative things and see what works. And then, uh, have some sort of mechanism for passing that knowledge along to other teachers who could benefit from the same sorts of things. And then from the parents' side, have the parents support the school. Get involved. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Pay attention to what's happening. Talk to the teachers. Uh, talk to their kids about school. And support the institution and, instead of becoming adversaries to the teachers so that the, uh, the teacher's in the middle. Uh-huh. That's, uh, some pretty good ideas. Why don't you do something with those Well, I've done about all I can do which is get the manuscript in good shape so that it can be published and read by a lot of people. Uh-huh. Well, you should, uh, run for a school board position. Oh, well. That I'm not so sure about. I've got a lot of things to keep me busy. Uh-huh. That ...
Have you done anything like that? Anything political? Well, my mother was on the school board. As we were coming up. Uh-huh. And, uh, that, basically, is the extent to which our, our family has been directly, you know, they've always been involved. My parents through the, the P T A organization. And my mother was on the school board for eight years. Uh-huh. But, uh, that was, that's the extent of which I guess that's more than, than some people, less than others That's more than a lot I would, uh, tend to agree with you that there is a problem The methods of correcting it I haven't thought through quite to the detail which you have. But I believe that there's definitely a basic perception and image problem with the fact of even being a teacher. Uh-huh. And if there was a way to, through the public mind, set that image to be a little higher esteem, a little, uh, uh, a little more prestige to being a teacher. And with that, of course, you know, you have to pay them a, accordingly. If we paid them more, it would attract more the, the higher educated people to, to either move into that field or to continue in that field. Yeah. And then if you paid them more, you'd also be able to demand a higher quality product out of them.
I think that's absolutely right. They, the thing that worries me about that is that if you just raise salaries across the board, you're going to be, uh, rewarding people who've been doing a lousy job. And instead of getting the, uh, improvement that we want. Sure. Sure. So we'd have to have some way to, uh, reward and recognize the teachers who are doing a good job and give them a, a pat on the back and respect and some honor and more money. Uh-huh. It, unfortunately, it's a, and it's a business or an occupation that the results are not as tangible as other ones Uh-huh. Yeah. It's, it's hard to tell. so it's very, it's very difficult to say that this teacher is doing a better job than this other one, other than I guess how, you how a person scores in the beginning before the class and then after the class. You know, if there's some gauge that they could make. Yeah. Uh, also, I've I've thought around about the idea of making teaching and the before you can get a certificate, you have a, a certain residency period. So much like a doctor. Maybe not the four years definitely. But some certain type of, of position where you're overseen to begin with. Yeah. Now that's a very good suggestion.
Uh, just something to, rather than throw someone in, into that environment, uh, you know, it Yeah. I don't think student, I don't think student teaching is enough. I thought that maybe something. I think that, at least what I used to observe in student teaching, was that some college kid who might not be all that bright to begin with, was thrown into a class room with a teacher who was harried and overworked and, uh, had too many kids to handle and too many things to do and too many interruptions to pay much attention to the student teacher. Uh-huh. Right. And then the student teacher didn't stay but about six weeks. Uh-huh. So there really was no time to try, much of anything and get significant feedback that would help the, the student teacher improve very much. Sure. Sure. There are lots of things that could be done in that line, including things like video taping. Because it wouldn't be hard with all the electronic equipment that's around these days to video tape, uh, either a master teacher teaching a class so that then, students could watch that and, uh, criticize the methods used and, and analyze it. Figure out what worked and what didn't work. Uh-huh. And then also to video tape the student teachers so they could correct their own performance. Sure. Sure. That's good as a, a, a teaching aid. But more you see these commercials that have Jimmy walking into class late and it happens that the teacher is an instructor who is in New York while Jimmy's in Rome.
Huh. And, you know, the whole electronic classroom idea. I don't know if I I'm in favor yeah, in favor of, yeah, I don't think that's going to work. I think, especially in the younger years you need to have more of the, the person contact rather than just the fact that your machine being fed information to, to learn how to learn. Yeah. Well, another thing I think would be helpful would be to have some sort of, of say a national curriculum. Because one of the problems with getting good textbooks is that we have such a fragmented system for, uh, curriculums that the textbook makers produce a textbook that will sell in Texas and California. And then everybody else is stuck with that, regardless of what they want to teach. Huh. Is that because that's where the two biggest markets are Because it ... or? Well, that's the two states that adopt on a state wide basis. I see. Uh, and so it, uh, I used to work for a textbook publisher and it was absolutely clear that if you could get your book adopted by Texas, then you had a built-in market because there were only about three or four textbooks in each subject and all you had to do is just get your share of those adopted in the individual school districts. Uh-huh. Huh.
And, you know, a third of the Texas market with its millions of kids is a heck of a lot of textbooks. Sure. Sure. And then the states that either don't adopt on a state wide basis or don't have as many kids, just have to follow along and take what Texas gets. Right. California is the biggest for elementary schools but Texas, uh, adopts state wide all the way through the twelfth grade. I see. Well, definitely is a national problem if, that they need to address. Yep. Sure is. Definitely is. And I hope maybe we're going to get somewhere with a little more attention being paid to it with, uh, Reagan's, uh, new education secretary and, uh, you know, trying to do some, uh, trying to produce some new programs anyway. Right, right. Excuse me. Well, I've enjoyed speaking with you. I have got to go. I've got another line calling. Thanks.
All righty. Good-bye Bye Okay, sorry. Wow, that's okay So, tell me about your home. Oh, it's, uh, it looks like a little shot gun house, almost. It's got three bedrooms going along one side and the living room and kitchen on the other. Uh-huh. It's, uh, an older home, it's not new, I like it though, it's big. Oh really, what kind of square footage? Oh, I wouldn't know, I measured it one time, because I was, uh, we had saw some termites Uh.
and we thought about getting it sprayed. I think it was like, I can't remember, I'm sorry That's okay, that's okay. It's big enough for us, though. Uh-huh. We kind of need maybe one more room. We've got two children. Uh-huh, okay. So where do you live at, I mean what part of town. In here in Denison. Okay, see, that's north. Or down here in Denison, yeah. Okay, I live, I live in Plano,
so it's north to me Okay, up here then I say down, I'm really from Kentucky. I was going to say you didn't have the typical, you have a southern accent, Uh-huh. but you don't have a Texas accent. Right. Well I'm originally from, uh, Ohio, Cincinnati, Oh, okay. so I'm uh, familiar with, uh, That area, that dialect. Right, right Also I lived in Georgia for about four years, so the, uh, there's a difference too, between east and west, in the south. And, uh, the way in which people speak.
Uh-huh. Anyway, my home is, um, I guess it's about twenty-five hundred square foot and I have, uh, four bedrooms at the present. We're busting out walls and things like that. That's what I want to do. How many kids do you have? We have two, we have two. Do you have enough bedroom space, then? Yeah, we'll have enough bedroom space, it's, we're rearranging our house because the bedrooms are kind of small. Uh-huh. And so, we're going to enlarge our master bedroom and take out a couple of walls and enlarge it. And then shuffle the rooms around a little bit. That's kind of like what we'd like to do. We just had a baby a couple months ago and we've got a den, it's more or less a spare room. Uh-huh.
We rarely go in there, except for to play chess. Uh-huh. We want to make that a bedroom for my stepdaughter and my daughter and, uh, we need the one extra room. Like, like you said, our rooms are too the bedrooms are too small, the living room and kitchen are huge, Right. but the bedrooms are too small. Where you've got to leave the furniture just one certain way, you can't rearrange it at all. Right, there's they, uh, I know what you're saying there, ours is the same and they tend to put windows in the strangest places. Yeah. You know we have windows in our bathrooms which really makes it difficult for, Yeah, we've got two great big windows in our back bathroom. Uh-huh, you're kind of limited in what you can do there and everything,
so. No privacy. No, we don't have a lot of that, yeah. Well, we've got at least two windows on every wall in the house. It, Uh-huh. I'd hate to clean these windows, I really would. I figured I'm going to have to hire somebody to remove our windows and put new ones in that are easier to clean. Ours are the double pane and you can't really clean them on the inside, you know. Ours are those too, yeah. You must live in an older home too then. Right, I do, the house is about, um, I'd say almost thirty years old. Uh-huh.
So it's not a new home, it's, it's seen some wear and tear. You know. Ours has too. When we moved in the man that sold it to us had said that he remodeled it, Uh-huh. and he did it hisself, so most of that, by now, is falling apart. Oh. You know, well I mean, it's not just horrible, but like this tile's come loose off the wall, the whole bathroom is covered from ceiling to foot in tile and I don't like that at all. Um, that is awful. With that, uh, the great big tiles, square tiles like, that you put on the floor, the, the huge one. Uh-huh, he did it in that? Yeah, instead of wallpaper. I wouldn't mind it if it was like short tiles, for that you put,
The normal tiles, right. right that you put around a bathtub, that would be prettier. Uh-huh. But this looks like floor covering on the wall. It just doesn't look good. Oh, and also they're very heavy and so they tend to come off a whole lot easier. Right, there's one big one that has come off and short of putting nails through it, we can't get it back on, so. Um. And he rewired the house and it's shorting out here and there, and Oh, wow, I,
that's one of the things we've been fortunate with, is our, uh, wiring is okay. We don't have a, we don't have enough power, um, or our breakers aren't, aren't powerful enough to take, to, to really help with the load in the house. Uh-huh. I mean we need to redo some, rewiring ourselves but our plumbing is awful. There is there is a shut off valve that's outside that doesn't work, Um. and there's no other real shut off valves inside the house, so if something breaks, we have to shut it off from the main, in the street, you know, Yeah. and, oh, it's, it can be really bizarre. Yeah. And we never know where it's going to flood. We've got power surges on the west side of our house. We've got our stereo hooked up. Uh-huh. Well that, the power makes it run. It's never ran,
it's always ran just fine, the clock and stuff. Uh-huh. But it runs about ten minutes fast, except for about a month, for about a month the, the clock ran normal. Um. And then the power went off again, lightning or something knocked it out and we hooked it back up and now it's running ten or fifteen minutes fast again. Um. But on the east side of the house it runs fine. Oh boy, you do have a strange wiring problem there. He put new wiring in, it's all new wiring up in the attic, or I guess crawl space, Uh-huh. Uh-huh. but, uh, oh, no, he didn't know what he was doing, he really should have hired people. Well that's something, my husband's in construction
and he won't even touch electrical stuff. He, I mean, he'll do a little things but he won't do any major rewiring. He says he'd rather pay the electrician to handle it. Right, he'll end up killing himself. Pardon. End up killing theirselves. That's right. My husband, he'll change out a light switch, but that's about as far as he'll go. Well that's the way mine is, you know, Yeah. I mean, he, he well he said he went up in the attic and looked around and he was like, oh my God, he says, looks like a bunch of spaghetti up there. And we had squirrels in our attic when we first moved in because the roof was so sorry, Uh, was a what, The roof was really sorry.
I mean when we moved in, we had no idea how bad it was. Uh-huh. It was a wood shingle roof, and we, the first year we were living there, we had to replace the roof. Well he put, which I heard it's a law that you're only allowed to have three layers of shingles. Is it three or five, your husband probably knows. He probably knows, I don't know what it is off hand. Well, he's got seven layers of shingles up there, and he told us it was a completely new roof. Like I said, he didn't know what he was doing. Yeah, he must not of. We stripped ours, we stripped ours off. We didn't put it over, 'cause we put composition roof on. And we completely completely stripped all the old wood shingles off, put decking up, put the paper down, and I mean just started from scratch.
Uh-huh. Unfortunately when we were doing that it decided it wanted to snow and hail and rain. Oh, no. And we, and we had, we had almost, I'd say about half of the roof off, and it did this. And, uh, uh, a house full of snow. And a house full of snow, and rain, Uh-huh. and it came down, it did this in the middle of the night. We have plastic, you know, just tied down on everything, you know, as best we could, real thick edge stuff, I mean, Uh-huh. and the wind came in from the north and it just blew everything off in the middle of the night and we were asleep and, and I woke up and I got up and it was about four o'clock in the morning and I heard all these, these drips, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip. Oh, no.
I had water coming in every light fixture. That, yeah. I had water coming in everything that was in the ceiling, everywhere. And I mean it filled up my light fixtures, because they're the old kind. Uh-huh. And I would go in, and I'd turn on a light in the room, you know and the light would come on and the whole thing would be full of water. And I mean the light would still come on. It didn't blow up or anything My neighbor, or a friend of mine when I lived in Louisiana, her, we all lived on base, my husband was in the Army. Uh-huh. She woke up about three or four o'clock in the morning, water dripping from hers. The neighbor's uh, washing machine had uh, over done something, I don't know but it was leaking, just pouring water in
and it all went through to her roof and it was coming out of the lights, fixtures. Oh. The fire alarm went off for some reason. It shorted it out, or something. Oh, yeah, that will happen. So she woke up with about six feet of water in her house. Oh, my lord. No, not six feet but, But it's quite a bit, quite a bit, you know that, Yeah you might as well so. Did you have carpets and stuff? Oh, several of our rooms got ruined, we have, um, we are on pier and beam,
we don't have concrete slab underneath our house, Uh-huh. so it, it got into the carpeting, got into the floor. The carpeting was already awful anyway, but it got into the floor and rotted the floor and made it stink Your house sounds like mine because mine's pier and beam too. Oh really. Yeah. Yeah, they came in and they had it, one room they completely cut up the floor in and removed it. We had to call the insurance company. I mean the insurance company was paying for the new roof but they also ended up having to pay for the damage when the roof was being repaired. You know, which really wasn't our fault. Uh-huh. I mean we'd done everything we could to keep out the weather. You know, and stuff That's right. That's right. and,
Well you got to redo it the way you wanted it in the end. Oh yeah it, Are you finished with it now? Uh, the roof? Uh-huh. Oh yeah, yeah, it's, it's been done for quite some time. We're really glad with all the rain we've had in the last couple of years that we have a really good roof. Uh-huh, how long have you lived there? Uh, see, it's three, it's just been at three years. We've been in the house just the three years. We've been doing a lot of remodeling. I mean, it's, it had detached, it had a detached garage and my husband's built a walkway across and we're going to brick up the garage to match the house and things like that so we,
You all did it yourselves? What, uh, the walk? The home improvements. Oh yeah, yeah, he see he does this for a living, Uh-huh. I mean this is what, All right. Well, uh, quite a few and they're varied. They don't, uh, uh, encompass, uh, many handcrafts like knitting and that kind of thing. Uh-huh. But, I do, uh, quite a bit of wreath making and my dogs are my hobbies. I do a lot of gardening. I go to estate sales, which takes up a lot of time. Uh-huh. Now, what do you mostly do Well, mostly right now I'm a, I do a lot of sports and stuff like that is my hobbies and do a lot of things with my family as much as possible.
We're, uh, we're about to take the kids to go roller skating and a birthday party and stuff, Oh, so. boy Yeah. That should be fun. Yeah. Fun for them. Yeah. How old are they? Uh, I've got a little girl who's six and a little girl that's three. Well, I think that's better than having that party at home Yeah. Well, uh, this is a friend's party and they, they rented, or, you know, they, the party, they, uh, just rent skates and stuff for the kids. Yeah. So, uh they're, they're looking forward to it.
And, the the, the skating rink does the rest practically, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh Boy, what a help that is. Yeah So, uh, What kind of, how long have you lived in North Carolina? Well, not that long. Really? Uh, just since October. We moved here from Enid, Oklahoma. Oh. Uh-huh. So, uh, we are, we're originally from Virginia, this part of the country. Uh-huh. But, we did spend twenty years in Norman and Enid and loved it. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
But, we needed to get back, uh to our older parents. Yeah. Uh-huh. But, I am loving it The weather is divine. Really? Yes. uh, did you like Oklahoma, while you were there? Oh, yes. Very much. Yeah. Um, what did you all do? Well, my husband was with, uh, begins to be much clearer, a lot less back ground noise and University of Oklahoma and, Phillips University in Enid. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And then he went with, uh, a family corporation that had, uh, has oil and ranching and varied enterprises. Uh-huh. And, uh, he just quit a perfectly good job and came, we came East Really?
Yes. So, is, uh, is he working there then or Yes. Uh-huh. He's doing, uh, quite a bit of consulting work and, has been offered a permanent position Oh, uh-huh. and he's contemplating Uh-huh. He, he's liking this free time actually Oh, yeah. It's just wonderful after all, these years of working. Yeah. Yeah. Well, how did, how did you get, uh, hooked up with the T I switchboard thing? Um, a gal who works, uh, with T I on this project Uh-huh. I think she's a temporary worker Uh, mother is my best friend in Virginia Oh, I see.
So we have spread the word a little bit in this part of the country. I see. Uh-huh my wife has talked more than I have, uh, she's talked to four, five different people. It seems like she hasn't talked to anybody from Dallas. In fact, she's talked to a couple of people from North Carolina, I think. Really? Yeah. Uh, what is her name? Her name's Tina Yeah. Well, I haven't talked to her. I haven't, I haven't talked to a Tina yet Yeah. Uh-huh. uh, the, the call was probably for her. They wouldn't accept my, uh, T I N number, so we put hers in. But, uh, uh, like I said, we're getting, getting the kids ready to go to the birthday party,
Yeah. so. Yeah. But, uh, some of yeah, I, I've only talked to one or two and they've, they've all been in Dallas. But, she hasn't talked to anybody, in Dallas, yet. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's interesting. Well, you haven't told me, uh, what sports that you are active in. Well, the sport I like best probably is basketball. But, uh, I guess I'm probably better at softball. And so I'd, like during the summer months it's, occupies quite a bit of my, time. Yes. But, I play in a couple of leagues and, and occasionally in a tournament or something on a weekend. But, my family usually goes with me. We try to do everything we can together.
Well, I think that's, uh, easy entertainment for a, family, too. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they, uh, a good friend of mine that plays on one of my teams, we, uh, that's usually the team I play on with the tournaments and stuff, and they have a couple of kids that are almost my kids age. So they play together, pretty well Under the stands. and, Under the, bleachers. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. And, uh, Tina enjoys, uh, the other lady, real well. So they, you know, that's kind of nice. It's like getting together with, them. Yes. Well, it's getting, a little hot, isn't it?
So to speak. It, Yeah. Well, it's been raining a lot here so far. So we haven't really had any kind of real heat. I think it's going to be warm enough this afternoon, we were noticing a while ago it's already eighty in, in the house. So, it looks like an air conditioner, day. Yeah. But, It sure does. Or maybe this evening anyway. Yeah. It, yeah, but, you know, I'm sure you're familiar with that living, here. Very, much so. We go, we go through Enid, you know, quite a bit. We go to Tulsa from time to time. And my, my parents live in southern Illinois. So, we drive, up there.
Yeah. And, well, lot of times we take seventy-five and, uh, it seems like, seems like that goes through Enid, I know, No. No it doesn't. I've either seen the signs or, Enid is, uh, it's in the northwest. It's, uh, directly across the straight, uh, state from Tulsa. Uh, Um. I know I've seen, the sign somewhere. Sure you have. Yes. Well, Enid is, not, uh, an unknown little city. Yeah. It, uh Right. an awful lot of people know where it is, or have been there. And it, was, uh, a very, uh, self-sufficient, uh, wealthy uh, town, for a long time, anyway You know until, uh, everything happened,
Uh-huh. Uh. Uh-huh. the bottom fell out. But, Oh, uh-huh. it's beginning to do well. But, there's a lot of, uh, old time wealth there that, has helped to stabilize things. Oh, uh-huh. Uh-huh. So, uh, how you said you've just lived in North Carolina just like, six months then is, Yes. Something like that. And you really like, it there, huh? Oh. I've heard so many people talk about that area. I've never been there Well it's, it's and children in the pretty. but they sure, say it's pretty.
The weather is wonderful. Uh, this winter we, it was just, we had so many wonderful days. And, Uh-huh. uh, I, if it got to be forty degrees, I decided it was too cold to, to walk the dogs Isn't it, funny how how, your standards change Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. It really does. My wife and I spent a couple years, uh, doing church work up in the state of Washington right, on the coast. Yes. And it rains, you know, a lot there. Sure. But, you get used to it. I mean, it's like a fine mist all the time and it doesn't really,
it gets to where it doesn't bother, you. Well, foggy and, misty. Really? It, The moss grows, on the trees in the woods up , eight, ten, feet. Uh-huh. Right. Right. Yeah. That's the way it is, was, there, too. Yeah. I think, however, that's like February. Uh, I know it did it all February. And some people said to me, "Well, that's our wintertime." Oh, uh-huh. Well, I know you, need to go. But, And I've enjoyed talking to you. Well, I have enjoyed talking to you, too. It was nice, to talk to you.
Thanks so much. Have a, I hope you enjoy, North Carolina. Oh, thank you. And I hope you enjoy, and get through that birthday party. Well, I hope, I live through it. Yeah. I do, too That's what I hope. Okay. Thanks a lot. Bye-bye. Good-bye. All right, uh, how long have they been recycling there in Virginia? Um, actually quite a, a, a while. Um, I've lived here for six years and, can you hold on just a second? Yeah, uh-huh
Hello. Uh-huh. Oh, I'm sorry I must have got the other line cut off. Uh, so, they've been doing that it for a while now Uh-huh. and, uh, it, I live in an apartment Uh-huh. and my facilities , there it is, hold on on Uh-huh Hello. Okay, sorry about that Yeah, okay, you're okay, Yeah.
okay Uh, anyhow, they have facilities here in my apartment complex for recycling paper only. Uh, I've been recycling for maybe about two years now and, at another public facility where they have, you know, recycling of glass, uh, aluminum and paper. Uh-huh. Now, Have you, have you cycled, recycled plastic also? No, and that's what I, I don't understand exactly why they don't have that option. We, we have out here uh, up until just this last year in on you are town there wasn't any really good way, Uh-huh. they had some bends, *sp: bins around that we could find and put them in Uh-huh. but not all that many, it wasn't very well advertised Uh-huh. but recently, uh, the refuse department has, has, uh, is working on getting a system going where we will actually have, uh, a bend that we put things in for recycling these other things Uh-huh. so it, it should be good, uh, Uh-huh. I think it's a marvelous idea when you think of, uh, when I just think of the papers that I dump out
Uh-huh. I mean there just, it's such a I waste, I just hate to think about it. Yeah, now an additional thing is, uh, where I work they also have recycling there of, uh, all white paper and of, you know, cans also Uh-huh. Uh-huh. so, I mean, a lot of people, you know, right at the vending machines, they have receptacles that, you know, you can just pop your cans in Uh-huh. Uh-huh. and near the, Xerox machines they have places, you know, for your, paper, Uh-huh. Uh-huh. you know, I keep a little box at my desk, you know, Uh-huh. and I just throw, as I'm using the white paper, you know, I just throw it right in there, Uh.
and then, you know, they have someone that comes around and pick it up, you know, every afternoon which, you know, is an excellent idea, at work because I know the amount paper they go through there Yeah, that's neat. Yeah. because, Yeah, that's right. I guess one of the things, I think, that needs to happen is we need to be better informed about, about it, Uh-huh. there's needs to be more public, uh, service of, programs or something that would let us know had a happens to it and helps us to become enthused about it because of what is happening Yeah, I would agree with that. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. and there's, Right. I've seen a few things but not very much, really Uh-huh. and I, I think that's a shame they need to, uh, do a little more,
I'd like to know, for instance, when I, when they say, uh, plastic, all plastic, what kind of plastic, can you put all together or, is there some reason not to, Exactly. Uh-huh. uh, now maybe they just sort it after they get it and throw out what they can't use, I don't know Uh-huh. but I, I'd be glad to organize it, if that they'd tell me what it is I'm doing Uh-huh. Right. Uh-huh, yeah, I agree with you there, another thing that I like here which is, I do with, I have to actually go to two different recycling areas because one of them is that, uh, their aluminum cans is for, uh, Children's Hospital, for a burn fund Uh-huh. so all the monies are donated, you know, for the recycling to Children's Hospital, which I think is an excellent idea, there, you know, because the other, public, Yeah. Uh-huh,
that's great. Now that gives, you a little bit of incentive there. Right, right, Uh-huh. and before even at work, before they started the recycling plan, which at work they've only been doing since January first of this year, I had had everyone in my department recycling and, you know, I would have them drop, right, drop their cans off in my office Saving them for you, uh. and then I would haul them, you know, here to this place for the Children's Hospital Fund which got people really going into it, Uh-huh. I think that's, right. but, I think, I think helping us be more enthusiastic about it, helping us maybe, maybe using the money for something special that would be like paying off the national debt Uh-huh. Uh-huh That, there you go. That's for sure. But I, I think that's
right I think they, there needs to be a little bit more in the area of, of, uh, advertisement, and letting, public letting you understand, more of what it is you're doing, why you're doing it, how you're it's done and, what, what happens to it because I think that's, that would help a lot. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Right, right. Uh-huh, and I'm sure, you know, in the near future I would think they would be coming out with more, Yeah. you know, I've seen a definite trend, you know, towards more recycling, everywhere, you know, even at McDonald's, you know, with their, their use of no, foam containers anymore. Yeah, I, Yeah. Yes, I, I'm glad, to see some of these things, I think. Right. I think, I think it is getting more, you know, advertisement. People are becoming more conscience all the time that it's necessary to do, and that we need to somehow get away from the fact that we have to have everything individually wrapped, Right. Uh-huh. and all these things that,
Right. I think that's true. Well, I think, I'm that's about my, uh some on recycling Yeah but I, I enjoyed talking to you. Okay, well, I did too. Uh-huh, all right, bye now. Okay. Bye-bye clicks hanging I have, uh, I, well, I used to have the opinion that there that there really was not any more crime in America, in the cities, anyway, than there was in previous centuries, uh, before, uh, simply because. The reason there seems to be so much was the fact that the police now had advanced, uh, reporting methods, with computers and other devices. Compile more statistics. That's right, and those statistics in turn got them bigger budgets.
Uh-huh. However, I have been persuaded, lately, I guess, simply by the, uh, overwhelming data that seems to be available that there is indeed a lot more violent crime. More especially where you are. Are you, in Washington D C or Washington state? Well, yeah. No, I am in, I am in Washington D C. Yeah, yeah, I was going to say, Actually it, you know, I do a lot of business here, and I come here quite often and, and that again is a, is a sort of media perception there's some absolutely lovely and marvelous and peaceful areas in Washington. Regardless of the racial makeup, Oh, yeah. but it's, it's real, uh, there's pockets of violence that is so violent that they, uh, It just really grabs your attention. Yeah. It just makes the whole place seem like that.
Right. Now just to focus on that a minute, I guess, uh, uh, when, uh, previous secretary of, uh, Bennett, I think his name was, became the drug czar, uh, for, uh, President Bush, he was going to focus on it, on this area and do something about it Yeah. and I see that even he was met without, with, with little success, even though the entire, I guess a, a quite a bit of money and other, uh, planning efforts went into that. What do you, what do you think is causing all this, Well, because, it seems that there even though crime, though I think it is increasing in number, it sure does seem to be increasing in intensity, and violence too. Yes. Well, I, I have three theories about it, you know, three things. I have one theory, and it's brought to us by two things. One I, I believe that this is a function of, uh, the violence that young people see on television and the movies. Uh-huh. And, I am not just talking about, you know, uh, role models of of tough guys and gangsters and things like that, I am not even, I am not even convinced that maybe things like football, hockey and, the, you know, the, and even baseball games now where the, everything is settled with a fight. You know, the, the immediate need to show some sort of violence to settle the argument. And, and then I, I am an advocate of hand gun control to some degree, so I think that particularly
I, I was reading the other day about, uh, Corpus Christi, Texas which has the the highest, I think it's Corpus Christi, that had the highest rates per hand gun death in America uh, per capita. Yeah, I was, I have not seen that, but, uh, I mean the Saturday night special stuff so, Yeah. That, that's what I think about it, that's some of the things I think about it, plus like drop I do not know, what are your views? Well, yeah, I tend to agree with you with, you know, it seems anymore, uh, a movie can not be considered good unless there's just some, some sort of violence, or something in it. Yes. And, and along with that, you know, and then you start making a movie and it has no, there's no call for something violent, but, so they just throw something in there just to say they have it well that's, that's, that's the impression I get, you know.
Yeah. And I, and I imagine that it's, you know, it just feeds upon itself when we have this sort of violence in society, people want to, it conditions people to it and, uh, you have to it has to be even, uh, magnified to to attract people's attention. I guess, to have them spend money on something like that. Yeah, you become callous. Yeah. And I am sure that it does form role models for young, for young men and young women and, Yeah. uh, I mean I, I, read now where we are, you know, women are young women are arrested fighting with knives over, over whatever. whatever reason, which is kind of unheard of when I was young. Um. Now, I do not want to sound like an old fart, but, that's what seems that those things happened did not happen in that manner before television. And I, I, I, I have to think that, that it has some influence on it. But,
I listened to a radio talk show today at lunch time Yeah. I do not know if you listen to him or not, No. he's on A M, but, there's a fellow that had called in and was lamenting about the, there was an interview done on the assistant chief of police for Los Angeles, the guy under Gates, Oh, yes. and they were just really coming down on him because of some of the things he was, just some of the things that he believed in, some of his morals. For instance, uh, they asked him if he spanked his kids, and he said "You bet, I believe in discipline". And people, I, I, I, I guess they confused discipline with punishment. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And, just, it seems anymore that, uh, if, if you have, you know, this type of a moral stance, that people come down on you. It's like, you know, hey, everybody has to be free to do their own thing. And I disagree, and I think that's really contributing to this high rate of crime.
Yes, yes. Well, I mean, I, I guess what I wanted to say and I stopped, uh, I do not know, I got diverted, was that, that, uh, there's so there's so much of a return from to prison that the rehabilitation programs seem to be a failure. And, and that is not emphasized. I recognize there's, there's over crowding problems and, and since we have decided to put everybody in jail that commits a crime now, that that's complicated the entire process. Yeah. What I also think that, I guess it's the reflection of the society where, where we have so much more mobility and less attachment to, uh, you know, it does not seem to be any responsibility to the community where you, where you live or. I do not mean attachment and responsibility, I guess I mean any sort of, Well, nobody feels responsibility to do something. It's like, oh boy, I wish they would stop doing that. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Yeah I, I do not know how that's, I do not think it's done by, uh,
the changes come simply by statutory nature. I do not know what it really will take Um. And, I do not know if I have solutions, except, except to, you know, I am sort of a, a, an advocate of, of, uh, of letting people, of having free speech and I guess to curb, uh, television, uh, the violence on television and in the movies would be contrary to my beliefs in that. Yeah. However, there does seem to be a, right now in verbalizing, it does seem to be a higher need for something of that sort. Yeah, and then how many, And the sacrifice is not that great. How many studies have to be done to show that there is a link between, you know, what you see and how Yeah. I mean, what you see affects how you think and therefore what you do. Yes, yes, I think, I think that's correct.
And, yes but, you know, as soon as you start, uh, Well, Texas has, uh, Texas has, uh, has always struck me, I mean I, I, I have lived in and out of Texas, both in the service and, uh, uh, short business stints. And it seems to me they are a pretty, pretty tough law and order state, but that's a, but yet that does not seem to have effected the amount of violent right in the state. Just citing that, you know. Yeah, uh, unfortunately you have got a lot of the, uh, some, well a lot of it can be contributed to the racial differences, I mean, just that we are so close, to the border with Mexico, Yeah. we have got a lot of that influence. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I talked with, um, I talked with people from Richardson and Plano and, uh, the first three days, and then yesterday I talked with someone with, from Pennsylvania, so,
Yeah, because, it's the, I've only made, this is only my third call. Oh. I, I tried to make calls two different days and I couldn't get through. Oh, I know. Sometimes I just I'm, in, it just takes a very long time so, Does it? Yeah, I've been trying to, you know, do that, and, and sometimes I just can't wait that long, Yeah, I know. so I just hang up. Because it keeps going through the thing over and over again.
Well. This is hilarious But I knew as soon as I heard your voice, I thought, Kathy's, it's Kathy Kester Oh. Well, tell me, what books have you read lately? Well, let's see, I, um, gosh, I can't even think. I haven't read any, and you're such a reader, I know that and I, Well, I don't read all that much for enjoyment. I mean, I read a lot for school, but gee, I just don't have much time for enjoyment reading Yeah. The, the last book I picked up was a book by Judy Bloom, Uh-huh. and it was, um, it was called, um, SMART WOMEN, I think. Um, or something like that. Um. Yeah. And it was, it was kind of,
I really didn't like it at all. Huh. It was, it was written back in the early eighties. Oh, yeah. And it was all this, this, um, divorced woman syndrome of the, um, Oh, yeah. it was almost like a, a pre-AIDS scare kind of thing. Interesting. It was really an interesting, because I, I right away looked at when it was copyrighted. Because I could tell by the theme of almost when it was written. And, um, you know, a lot of hanky-panky, going on. Uh-huh. Yes, yes, yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of was, um, kind of a pop psychology time for when a lot of books like that were coming out, I think. That's right. And so that makes real sense, that that's, um, when it was written.
Yeah, yeah. Um, I haven't, wasn't really aware that she had written anything for, um, adults. I was always, just more aware of her you know, Uh-huh. for her young people, her books. *one utt? Yeah, and she's more famous for that, Uh-huh. but she has been writing for adults also, I'll be darned. and so I thought hey, I'll just try this, you know, and see what it was like. Yeah. It was very, um, the style was very conversational. Uh-huh. You would have lots of conversations between people rather than any description. Yeah. Right, yeah,
yeah. You know how that is, and um, Yeah. I wonder if she's written anything really recently, if she's got anything printed, in print. Yeah, she has, because I, I remember seeing a new book by her that was out, Uh-huh. and I think it was a, it was an adult book. I'll be darned. So anyway, Yeah. but that's the last thing I, I've read, Yeah. and, um, Well, it's, I'm trying to think the last actual book I read that wasn't, let's see, I think I read, oh, when I was on vacation, um, between semester break and summer, you know, on semester break between spring and summer
Yeah. and I went to my mother's, I read a book that I have, should have read when I was probably in high school. I read, um, JANE EYRE. I, No, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. JANE EYRE? No, no, no, no, it wasn't JANE EYRE. WUTHERING HEIGHTS? No, it was, um, uh, PRIDE AND PREJUDICE, by Jane Austen. Oh, yeah, by Jane Austen,
yes. That's what it was, yes. Yes. And, um, you know, I, I didn't know what to expect, except I had heard that, that Jane Austen was such a wonderful novelist, and she really was good. I mean, I was, was very much impressed with the way her plot was put together so, intricately Uh-huh. and, um, and, you know, I just, but I, as I say, I was pretty much ashamed that I hadn't read something before then. Yeah. Because I, I think I was, I think I read it in college, or had to write it, read it in high school or college, but I don't remember it. Yeah, yeah. And then when Jennie had to read it at Gettysburg and I got her the, I got her someone, Uh-huh. I think it was, um, oh, some actress reading it. Oh, how interesting. You know, they had an abridged version of it on tape.
Yeah. And so I got that for her, and she loved doing that. Oh, I'll bet, yeah. But I remember that was the book. Yeah. And now I, I mean, I think it's around here somewhere, Right I wouldn't be, surprised, I'm just going to have to put it, in the car sometimes and listen to it. yeah. Sure. Oh, yeah. But, um, Well, I read that, and then I'm trying to think, um, usually I try to, to find something long that, I'm going to, Uh-huh. when
if, if I have long periods of time, like Christmas vacation, or, you know, when I know I'm not going to be doing anything for a while, um, Yeah. Oh, that's what I do too. Yeah, and that's about it, because otherwise I'm reading so much for school. I'm, um, I have just started reading a book. Actually, it's for school, but it's for, um, there's a, a literary well, not a literary journal, it's a, it's kind of a journal of, of the history of ideas that's, that's starting to be published, um, from U T D. The first issue doesn't come out until next year, but, um, Oh, yeah. I'm doing some reviews of books, just to, what, to sort of recommend to whether or not a full-scale review should be done for the journal, Oh, how neat. and I've, yeah, it's really neat because these are brand new books and I, just got a, I got a, this one,
Oh, great. um, most of the stuff is on, uh, literary criticism and philosophy, and religion and all that. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. This one is on Johann Sebastian Bach, and it's a, a, a biography, that is really interesting, Oh, great. Oh, that's fascinating. I mean, it, it's fascinating, it really is. Oh. Um, but it's so long, I, I don't really have the time to read the whole thing, but I think, eventually I'll go back to it. Yeah. But it's, it was written, Yeah. I mean the, the copyright is nineteen ninety-one, so it's a brand new book. Oh, it's a brand new book.
Yeah, uh-huh. Oh, that, that would be wonderful to read something like that. Yeah, and he really, this man really shed some light on, um, some, aspects of of Bach's genius and, and, and, you know, the, and more sociological things, you know, like the, the idea that, um, that music, to be a musician was as much, um, of a family occupation as anything. Yeah. I mean, you know, that was it was families had just loads of musicians Yes. Yeah, and they just went from generation, probably to generation, just with these, with these all passing it from one to the other. Yeah. that's right. Yes, uh-huh, and, um, Yeah, that's the way it was, I'm sure back then. Yeah. So, uh, Yeah.
Oh, that's interesting. it was just really interesting, if that's, you know, that's kind of what, but I have to not only am, am I reading it to decide whether or not it should be reviewed, but also, um, because the board of advisers for this, um, journal doesn't have, right now doesn't have a really respected name, um, who's a, uh, a scholar on, on music, Uh-huh. um, and I'm supposed to decide whether I think this man might be a worthy person to be a, you know, in that position on the board so, Oh, yeah. I don't know if I want to take that responsibility or not, but But at least I, can tell them what I think, Wow, that's rough. That's real rough. so, um, it's real interesting. Yeah. Because I think our, I think my alma mater, um, Gettysburg, I think they were just starting a magazine *sd that was similar to that. Yeah, it is. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah.
I think that's probably a, sort of a thing to do in small colleges, Yes Yeah, but, um, that it, you know, you see, you see a lot of small colleges doing things, like that, Uh-huh. right, uh-huh, Yeah. because it attracts really a, a lot people's interest. That's one way, it's really good public relations for small schools, Oh, yeah. I think so Yeah. But, uh, another one of my projects this summer is, actually it's part of my research assistantship, is, um, it's helping a professor, uh, compile a bunch of translations of, of various poems for a book that he's writing, and so I'm learning the names, if not the actual contents, of a lot of different poems and a lot of French people. Oh. Now, translations, what do you mean, translations of, of,
Um, well, where, where, for instance, um, a Baudelaire poem that was written, in the French and then has been translated into English by, various people. Yeah. Uh-huh. Oh, I see. And the translations are all so different from one another. All different. Uh-huh. Oh, that's interesting. So it's multiple translations of single works and, and that's right now, right now pretty much what I'm doing as far as, um, my work, is just kind of compiling, all that for him. Gosh. So, That's great. It's real interesting. There are days when I would be prefer , really doing that Boy, you really lift me up to a different, I mean, here I, I'm dealing with, uh, cleaning the stove and, You know, I'm I wish I were dealing with Baudelaire. That would be nice.
I don't know if I've told you, but, um, this is not on the subject, What do you think about it? Well, I, I feel in light of some of the accidents and so forth that have happened lately, that I think there are some occupations that they should, such as the health field, the transportation field, uh, they're already doing it in the armed forces, where they handle weapons and so forth, uh, they do it to prisoners Yeah. so, I, I, uh, I, I, I feel like it should be mandatory in some professions, and I think if, if, uh, an employer feels that he wants to, to drug test employees and they don't like it, then they should not be employed there That was, you know, I would not mind it. Yeah, I, I especially agree that if it's an area where they could cause somebody else, you know harm or injury, absolutely. Right. And I don't have a problem at all with employers, uh, testing in the hiring process, but I, I, I don't, I don't have a problem with them too much, testing even after the fact, but I do a little bit where it, where it wouldn't hurt anybody. I don't know, sometimes I think they carry it a little bit too far. Uh-huh
But, unless an employer has a reason to believe that his, uh, the work competency of, of the employee is, is hurting the business. Yeah. Right I mean maybe it's, uh, and then it's not a problem. Number one because generally if, if they are involved in that type of thing they are into theft Yeah. and as an employer, I would think that would be, and the first, it's not going to be wholesale because of the cost. Oh, absolutely. There's no way. But, but my concern is, uh, school bus drivers. Oh, yeah. the train drivers, Um, I'm not even, I'm in education, I'm not even opposed to it for that. Uh, I'm concerned in the medical field.
Yeah. I, I, I think they should screen for alcohol in these areas, too because I consider that a drug. I wish they would. I wish they would, and that, I think, is even probably more widely abused by, you know, the masses than, than drugs, so to speak. Right. Right. Right. So. But when you consider they could be driving an airplane or driving a bus, or a train, um Oh, I know. And, and it doesn't take that long. They don't have to be totally roaring drunk No. just a little off on their timing could, could mean life. Just, uh, Yeah, and, Now T I has the random testing policy
Oh, okay. and, and, you know, our names or our employee numbers or whatever are in a, in a pool Uh-huh. so I've already been tested once when I was hired and, and once since they initiated this random testing program. Uh-huh, uh-huh. But I work with one girl who was tested, her name got, got randomly selected three times in six months Oh, my word. and I think that's the only reason I have a problem with it, when there's no, you know, there's no reason to suspect someone, you know. Control. That, that's getting a little bit, that's enough to make anybody paranoid Right. Well, as long as you accept that it is a random, a random testing uh, you know, to, to alleviate, Yeah. that way you can't feel like somebody's out to get me. Right. If, it's almost like being selected for jury duty Yeah.
You know, so your name came out of pot when they spun the wheel, that's, that's just the way it is. Either just the lucky or the unlucky one, depending on how you look at it. I would, I would rather have it that way, to know that I was chosen at random by a computer than to think that somebody turned me in because I, I think there's, when you let other employees turn in people, Oh, absolutely, There are so many people with, with their petty axes to grind Right. it could really get out of hand. Right. So, I, I, I would really rather know, however, there's got to be some backup to say that if, if somebody does observe you at, say at a party, uh, using drugs I would think that it would be their obligation to report that. Yeah. To report it, and I guess you'd report that to a supervisor, maybe anonymously or something because I, I would feel very uncomfortable working with someone I knew was using either illegal drugs or abusing alcohol, Personnel, or something, Right. I'd just I'd feel really uncomfortable. Right. Right.
I don't know what kind of work you do, but there, there would be, even be a situation where you were at a machine and working with somebody that was that way. Yeah, we have, we have a lot of people who work on the line. I'm in accounting, so it wouldn't, you know they couldn't hurt me with their ten key or something, Right. but out on the line, they've got people working some serious equipment. Right. Right. So. It's, it's, I, I just think employers have to have, especially given today, the drug abuse that goes on, I just think employers have to have some kind of way to see that they're not being put at Because they're the ones who are going to have the lawsuits, the insurance claims, et cetera, Put at risk. I agree totally. and, and I'm not sure but what some of the insurance claims aren't due to, uh, illnesses brought on by drug abuse or alcohol abuse. And in the long run, we're all paying for that Right. so it, I mean, it protects us in the long run hopefully when they do that.
Right. I, I was trying to remember, there was a court case, uh, here where I live, just a few months ago. The city workers, they wanted to, um, the city government wanted to institute the random drug testing Uh. and the city workers, uh, took them to court to protest, saying that it invaded their, I guess, first the, the search and seizure amendment Uh-huh, uh-huh. and it's still tied up in the legal channels. They haven't ruled on whether they can test them or not. Huh. So I'm curious especially since T I a local, you know, employer is also already doing it, seeing what they'll say about it especially since, To see how that's, Is it, is it, uh, just a small group of the employees that are concerned? Well, it's the whole, it's the whole city, seems like the whole group of city employees that's raising a stink over it. They, they just don't want to be drug tested. Yeah. So. You know, we've never, my husband and I have never been in a situation where somebody said you have to be drug tested.
Yeah. Uh, my husband's retired from I R S agents. Uh-huh. However, this isn't a problem that we have either alcohol or drug, Right. and so, we, we, in our minds we're thinking what's the big deal. Yeah, that's the way I looked at it. If I had something to hide, it's one thing, but I'm, you know, you know you don't, so it's not as big a deal, and you sometimes wonder when these people protest so much whether they're really concerned about their rights, or whether they're really concerned about something else. Right. And, and then they say, well, if you give them the right to do this, then they're going to take some other right away from you, but I, I I don't believe that. I think that an employer has the right to ask you to do anything, and, of course, the big deal, one of the big deals now, too, is to, that when you, come into a company, as you sign a paper saying that I will go take a, Okay.
I'll let you start. Do you all keep a budget, and how do you hold to yours? No, I, I never keep a budget. My budget or philosophy, I guess, is spend as little as possible. Well, that's, that's good And, uh and it's, it's sort of always worked. Especially for these times. Uh-huh. Uh, but that depends, you know, on the individual if they can I guess have self-control. Well, that's a lot of it. Uh, I know we tried several different ways. One time we tried something that really worked but we didn't keep it up. I passed it on to a friend and she won't quit doing it. She loves it and that was the envelope system. Where you go ahead and decide about how much based on what you did last month that you are going to spend, Uh-huh.
and you put the cash in envelopes marked for that. So you have one for entertainment and one for groceries et cetera. And then for some reason taking it out of that envelope and seeing it in cash instead of in check form, uh, causes you to realize how much is left. And she even writes down on the envelope as she subtracts and kind of debits on each envelope, what she's buying. Uh-huh. And then at the end of the, of the period, pay period, if she has any left, that much is for fun or entertainment. Uh-huh. And they kind of work it that way. We tried for a while and a seems like the problem that they were having of all the, of all the things that worked was not planning enough for the incidentals that we couldn't think about. Yes. And those are the ones that will kill you. You know, the the accidental fee or the car repair or the things that weren't supposed to be every month. Well, yeah, I, I couldn't probably be bothered doing that every month, Uh-huh. and and ever since, That's what I mean. It was a hassle uh, well, we've been married almost thirty years now
but, uh, my husband got paid once a month. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So you learn to get, That's, that's kind of hard Right. You learn to get through, you know, to the end of the month and, uh, But do you sort of self budget even, I mean, you wouldn't like on payday think, boy, I can go do this and that and this and that. You kind of think this is got to No. you kind of divide it in fourths in a way, don't you? No. Because if you charge things, uh, you pay all your bills at the beginning of the month, when you get paid, Right. or you get paid the last day or next to the last day. Right. You pay all your bills and there isn't anything left to spend anyway.
Well, that's true. What we're in the process of doing right now is paying off our credit cards entirely. And we're going to go ahead and try to just live on what we earn instead of guessing ahead of what we probably will have next month Well, yeah, we, we tried to, to, to, Oh. or we are paying them off now. Yeah, we're not there yet. Uh, there was a time when maybe we didn't take all of them off, Uh-huh. but you just sort of had to watch what you put in, because you hate to pay those finance charges, when you see how much it is. Uh-huh. That's right. That's right. And for most of, uh, I mean I'm a substitute teacher, and I've only substituted, I guess, for the last fifteen years, Huh. so there's only been really one working.
Uh-huh, same here. Uh-huh. And, uh, it, it works for me but I can't see that it would work for probably the majority of people. Well, I could say it's kind of, you know, that's, that's good. You you probably have a little extra than you have to have, to, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so, that, that's the difference there where sometimes like I know if we've had an especially bad month and we're just almost getting down to payday, then I think if we could really budget, we tried one I know when we were planning to buy the new car and we hadn't had a car payment in five years, we had to go ahead and write down each month what it was that every penny went for, to see how much was going to be left, Uh-huh. Yeah. and that was a real eye opener. Uh-huh. *slash error should be 'b' Uh-huh. It, it is when you do it that way. But to, to have lived by that every week would have been tough for me because sometimes I'll spend less on groceries but we'll go out. So it's kind of hard to say this is how much you're going to spend going out for fun.
This is how much you're going to spend It's kind of hard. Well, we, we eat out a good deal at this point. Do you? I, I started subbing just to go on a vacation and saved, all that money so because I knew that you couldn't, you know, spending, five thousand dollars on a vacation, or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Right Right. We were going to go for ten weeks, uh, in nineteen eighty Oh. so I started, working in nineteen eighty-seven and just saved, for three years. How nice. Uh-huh. But the, what minuscule amount I made but, that way you just didn't put it on your credit card, Well, that's, and, and it was paid for. and it made a big,
and you enjoyed it better probably. Yes. Yeah, . And so I think that that's difficult for most people, but then my father was, very Scotch I think so too. and, you know, you never could afford anything although we could afford everything if he wanted to. Um, So if you're out like in a department store and there's a sale, you're just real careful not to let your urges get hold of you? Yes. That's, that's excellent. That's what I'm working toward. I think you're probably much ahead of me there and I'm working on it. And I never worried about saving money because we just, we're in the savings plan at work and they took it out so, Same here, same here. I, uh, And I think though that we need to have some liquid around that you don't have to go through the company to get
Uh-huh. You know? Well, we never had too much of that Yeah. but then we never had any really emergencies that, uh, That came up. Yeah. And we didn't buy really new or expensive cars. I think the most, my, we're looking at cars now, uh, we ever spent for a new car was like six thousand dollars. Uh-huh. And they were mainly used cars. Well, that's the best thing to do. My husband said the other day it was the worst mistake we ever did to buy a new car because it wasn't worth it from the day after. Yeah, so, So, you know, we've been rather rather frugal in that. In that respect. Rather frugal. Well, that's, that's going to payoff on retirement. Yeah.
So. Well, it, uh, I guess we've completed, do you think we've been here to Well, each time they used to call in and tell me their space is limited and to please, uh, How would you go about organizing a family reunion? Well, for, I grew up in the deep south like south Alabama. So whenever I think of family reunions, my family, like, got together almost every week. Oh, gee. And there would be like thirty people. So people talk about, you know, big family reunions and I think, like I have a friend who just went to, like, Wyoming to some big ranch, you know, where like there were four hundred people for their family reunion. Oh, my. And I, so I mean, how I would go about doing it is I would just call all my relatives. Uh-huh.
Because I, since I came from, my father has, uh, five sisters and two brothers and my mother has four brothers and two sisters. So I both of my parents had big families, and we always we always got together, just always. Now it's different because I live here and I, you know, when I go home I try to see the families, as much of the family as I can but it's real different. Yes. And I grew up in a real not, I think not normal setting. With all of you living so close together. Right. I mean Sunday dinner was at my grandmother's and, you know, like I said there would be thirty, you know, thirty people, and everyone would just bring things and my grandmother would cook and cook and cook. Oh. And
Well, I come from a very small family. And we planned a family reunion this spring. Uh, where we are from Texas and my family is from Ohio and we met in Florida. Uh-huh. So the seven of us went on a cruise and then went to Disney together. So that's all the family, so planning our family reunion was very easy you know . Yeah, I guess so. It really sounds like it was fun. Yeah, well, we had a wonderful Well, I almost forgot the topic, I was waiting so long for, uh, for it to find somebody. Um, It's on your favorite T V shows and why. Right, well, so what is your favorite T V show? Uh, MAJOR DAD. Oh, you like that one?
I, I love it, I think it promotes good family values, and it's funny. Uh-huh. Uh, I've never really watched that one. You know, it's funny how you can just get in a mode where you only watch certain shows That's yeah. and, uh, you know, there's, so there's only a few that I, that I like to watch routinely. What kind do you like to watch? Probably my favorite is, um, oh, well, I like shows like GROWING PAINS and, uh, what's the other one now, they moved from Tuesday night to Wednesday night, so I don't get to watch it very much. WONDER YEARS? WONDER YEARS, yeah, that's my favorite. Uh, I like both of those real much also. I, I think basically, they same thing, they promote family values.
Yeah. WONDER YEARS, I, I guess that is supposed to be put out at a time when I was growing up or whatever. I guess I can really relate to it, and, uh, it's just a real cute show Uh, I, I guess I like the shows that really have a real sense of, uh, I don't know, honesty or sort of a purity value, I guess. I do, too. I, I don't like it, uh, lot of the shows that, that I've liked in the past, like, uh, oh, GOLDEN GIRLS and, some of them tend to get so risque, and when you have children uh, watching it, that sometimes really starts to bother me Uh-huh. Yeah, Right, right. and, uh, that's one of the reasons, I mean, if you want to go all time favorite show, probably one of them was LITTLE HOUSE ON THE PRAIRIE Uh-huh, yeah, my wife really likes that show, yeah,
which I just, I was, I always felt was wonderful Uh-huh. uh, and so many of them nowadays, like I said, I think are just, um Yeah. uh, they, they go after, well, they, like I said, the risque stuff, just I guess they think that's what people want to watch. Yeah, well, there was, but there's a sense of I guess, purity in the show, like one of my favorite shows used to be HAPPY DAYS Yes. but, uh, you know, Richie always used to be so, you know, just so honest and pure I guess, Yeah. and when he left the show, you know, that, it seemed to be missing that part of it Uh-huh. and I never did like it after that Uh-huh. so, I don't know, I, I say, see the same thing in like WONDER YEARS and a lot of the shows that I like to watch.

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