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Okay. So, What kind of experience do you, do you have, then with child care? I guess, I think, uh, I wonder if that worked. Does it say something? I think it usually does. You might try, uh, I don't know, hold it down a little longer, and see if it, uh, Okay Well, Does it usually make a recording or Okay I, Well, I don't remember. It seemed like it did, but it might not. I guess I guess we can start. Uh, Okay. Okay. No, I don't, I don't have any kids.
I, uh, my sister has a, she just had a baby, he's about five months old and she was worrying about going back to work and what she was going to do with him and the different, Uh-huh. do you have kids? I have three. Oh, really? Uh-huh. Yeah, I do Yes, uh, I don't work, though, but I used to work and, when I had two children. Uh-huh. I work off and on just temporarily and usually find friends to babysit, but I don't envy anybody who's in that situation to find day care. Yeah. But, does your sister live in a big community? Uh, yeah she lives,
it's a, it's a fairly large community. She, uh, got real lucky, though. He had a boss who, uh, moved into a larger office Uh-huh. and she's able to take her baby to work with her. Oh, really? And it's a small office that she works in Uh-huh. and, uh, it's a, it's a legal firm, office, and it's just one lawyer Um. and so she's the only one really that takes care of the office. There's no one else that works there. Uh-huh. And so they have an extra room and everything for the baby, so it works out pretty good for her. Wow. How lucky I, I know a lot of people around here sometimes have, like, mothers or grandmothers that take care of their kids Yeah.
and, but, the community I'm in is not a real large one, so there are a lot of people who babysit in their homes that, you know, you either know them or know somebody who knows them to get to, Yeah, so it's fairly safe. Yeah, to get references and that, so, but, uh, I, I don't feel comfortable about leaving my kids in a big day care center, but, simply because there's so many kids and so many Worried that they're not going to get enough attention? Yeah, and, uh, you know, colds and things like that get spread real easy and things, Yeah. but, and they're expensive and, course, there's a lot of different types of day care available, too, you know, where they teach them academic things. Yes. Or they just watch them and let them play and things like that, but, take a long time to find the right place Yeah,
and you, and you don't always even know if it's, it's going to be the right place or not. Uh-huh. Anything, I guess, could happen. Uh-huh. Because after, I guess after he, you know, gets to a certain age she's going to have to take him to a day care. Uh-huh, when he starts toddling around and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. When, when he's not, when she can't keep control of him and he starts crawling that's, Uh-huh. It would be hard, I think it would be kind of stressful. It would be nice to have him around Uh-huh. but, uh, seems like, you know, what if he cried at the wrong time or the phone rang or, you know, at the wrong time
Yeah. But, I think she has problems with that, too. Uh-huh. Well, when you have kids, will you work? Do you work now? I don't know that's something I've considered. Uh, Uh-huh. I always kind of think it would be neat to be able to watch them and be there for them all the time. Uh-huh. Is that what you do? Uh, yeah. Actually, I teach my kids at home, so I'm here all the time. Oh, so they don't go to school. Is it like, uh, oh, what's that called, it's, uh, correspondence school, they do it at home.
Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. That's interesting. So, Do you have to have any special training? Not, it depends on the state you live actually. Some laws absolutely prohibit it. Some states, uh, say that you have to be a certified teacher in order to do that. Our state doesn't yet, say that and I'm not a certified teacher. I went to college, but I, you know, but my kids are only elementary grades, levels right now and so, So they haven't been to public schools at all. One of them was for a couple of years and so, you know, my oldest, he was, and then my youngest two have never been. Um.
So anyway, but we don't, So, you've never had, Well, uh, does the company you work for test for drugs? Actually, uh, they just recently started a policy of testing drugs, which was kind of interesting, because when I went to work for them, uh, they didn't do that, but, uh, since then they've, they've started a drug testing policy, not because of their own, uh, convictions, but because the clients of our company are requests that we do that. Huh. How about you? Uh, no, we're not being tested for drugs at all, uh, our policies and procedures manual, uh, the furthest it goes about drugs is in the, kind of the miscellaneous section, or it's reasons for immediate dismissal, Uh-huh. it says, use of narcotics on company premises. Um. So that's pretty general, but, uh, I work for an environmental management firm Okay. and I'm an engineer there, but I do go on a lot of hazardous waste sites,
but I don't operate any machinery. Yeah. Now, people for our company that do operate machinery like drill rigs and things like that are under a, a medical monitoring program, Uh-huh. because they're at a higher risk of exposure and blood screening is part of that and I, I think that drugs, they do test for drugs in that capacity, but it's not their exclusive, it's just part, it's just something that turns up in the other parameters that they test for. Yeah. But I think it's got a little more relevance since they are around dangerous equipment and things like that and do have to exercise some quick judgment in the field. What is the nature of your company's business? Well, it's actually, uh, we do oil well services. So, a lot of our clients are oil companies, big oil companies, and they go out to, we have engineers who, uh, go out to the oil well, to the, to the client's oil well, and, and work with a lot of heavy equipment and put tools down the oil well and stuff, so the clients are very concerned that, you know, the engineers who go out there are adhering to their drug policy, because they're on their, their, you know, territory and everything, but the thing that's interesting is that I I'm an engineer and, a software engineer
Um. and I work in the software, uh, house, and everybody there, you know, are all software engineers. They've never, you know, they never go out to the, the oil rigs or anything, and yet, we're getting, we're subjected to this policy, you know, the same one that, uh, all the engineers have to, to, well, a little different, actually, but, uh, you know, we have to go through the same thing, and it's, but it's, uh, it's a little different, I guess than than a lot of drug policies. In our case, it's like, when you hire on, they'll test you, and then if you get injured on the job, if you like trip and fall or something, uh, they give you a drug test right away. Oh, really? Other than that they don't have random testing or anything like that, but, a lot of people were really upset with the policy at first. Particularly, like uh, we have a lot of parties and stuff where they serve alcohol, and they didn't find any problem with that, you know, but, Right. Uh, We, that's been an, a, an issue, uh, in our company even though we don't have the random or even regular drug screening. they'll have these little parties,
and people will just get, I mean, I've, my brother lives where I work, and I have many a time called him to come get me, you know. And, uh, uh, but, you know, they don't think twice about serving beer by the keg. You know, Yeah but, uh, I think drug testing, and I, I don't know, I guess I I think it's got some relevance, but I think its relevance is pretty limited. I mean, I think, you know, in your case, I don't think that you should necessarily be subjected to drug testing. Yeah. I think that's an interesting policy your company has about testing immediately after an on the job accident. Yeah, it's really, it's really bizarre. Uh, particularly, like where we are, you know. I, I, there was a story of a woman last year who, who actually did slip on the ice and, and like sprained her ankle and she, she was a personnel secretary
and she had to get tested and, I don't know I'm ambivalent about the whole thing. I, you know, I have a lot of mixed feelings about on the one hand, it's like if, you know, they're, they should be able to make it as a continue of employment in some sense and, you know, it's like you're, I mean, employments are contractual by nature anyway Uh-huh. but, uh, I had an experience when I was interviewing for a job that, where I had to, uh, uh, do a drug test and, and it's, it was kind of a long story, but it was, it was just an incredibly humiliating experience what I went through, and it amounted to, uh, going in, uh, before any of these interviews, I'm not even working for this company, I'm going in for, like, interviews and they flew me out to Chicago and, and, uh, before I went into any of the interviews, uh, they took me to the doctor to give me a physical. They said it was going to be a physical, you know, and, uh, actually beforehand they told me they were going to, uh, do drug screening, but I had forgotten about that, and so, basically, I'd already peed off that morning and, and when I got in there, I didn't, I wasn't, like, able to give a full sample,
and so they made me sit and wait for forty-five minutes, drink a whole ton of water before I went to any of the interviews and go in there again, Oh. Right. and the, and the, the procedure is utterly humiliating. You go in there with the doctor, he makes you take off all your clothes and then he examines you. Uh, the question was kind of interesting to me because I was just trying to put together a, uh, long term financial plan and monthly budget. The only thing I do now is, uh, put the data into Quicken. I don't know if you are familiar with that. Yeah, I have some friends of mine who use Quicken and, uh, I've considered using it once myself, but I decided that the amount of information that would have to go in would be a lot of time keeping that up to date. Uh-huh. So I, I kind of gave up on the idea of using Quicken, at least for now. Um. I've found it's the only reliable way to keep a check book balanced actually because what will happen is my wife will write a few checks and then, well, uh, uh, not bother to total it Uh-huh. and then it comes in to doing all the arithmetic. So it really helps with that.
Yeah, well, it's similar problems but, uh, we just have the one check book and we try to keep it up to date as much as possible and occasionally we will get behind like you say but, uh, it doesn't really seem to be too, too tight if we just remember to keep everything up, up to date and balanced. Uh-huh. Well, how to you handle that, the long range or medium range planning on finances? Well, actually we haven't had to. Uh, until just recently. I guess we've got a, a daughter who is eighteen months and another one on the way so we needed to start doing more of that just for, uh, you know, saving for college and things like that. Uh-huh. We tried a way, try to put away two and four thousand a year just for that. Yeah. Well that's pretty good if you can do that. I know. I have a daughter who's ten and we haven't really put much away for her college up to this point but, uh, we're to the point now where our financial income is enough that we can consider putting some away for college, Uh-huh.
so we are going to be starting a regular payroll deduction in the fall Um. and then the money that I will be making this summer we'll be putting away for the college fund. Um. Sounds good. Yeah, I guess we're, we're just at the point, uh, my wife worked until we had a family and then, you know, now we're just going on the one income so it's a lot more interesting trying to, uh, Uh-huh. find some extra payroll deductions is probably the only way we will be able to, uh, do it. You know, kind of enforce the savings. Uh-huh. But, uh, it will be interesting to see Well our situation is just a little bit, kind of the opposite of that cause my wife was not working for some time and was going to school and just recently, uh, took on a full time job, well almost full time. Um. So, it's only recently that we've had the money where we could start putting away large sums of it for, uh, long range goals like college and sickness and travel and that kind of thing. Um. That sounds good. But, uh, uh, I was just curious, what, uh, part of the country.
Oh, Stockton. Oh, okay. How about you? Uh, Cincinnati, actually. I was kind of wondering if they would be collecting people with, uh, the western accents or something like that. I don't know how many people are, uh, getting involved in this but uh, well that's interesting. Uh-huh. I'm, uh, uh, actually, uh, I was kind of interested if you found out about the study by, uh, reading TELECOM DIGEST or was there another? Uh, a colleague of mine at, uh, work got some information over, uh, the computer network called INTERNET. Oh, okay. Yeah, that is how I got it as well but, uh, And he just forwarded that on to me and, uh, it sounded like it would be an interesting project to participate in Uh-huh. so I sent back mail. Yeah,
it will be interesting to see what, It would be interesting to see how the data base, so, well, I guess we're talking about the experiment. Uh-huh. Uh, probably need to try to get back on the topic but, uh, it's hard to talk about finances without without getting to, uh, dollar figures I guess you know, Uh-huh. we could talk about some of the long range goals and, Well what other long range goals do you have besides college? Uh, well I think, either my wife or I would like to pursue advanced degrees at some point Uh-huh. uh, I guess we will have to factor that in if we are not working for employers that happen to fund that. It seems like every year my employer just gives back, you know, a little bit your tuition reimbursement. Uh-huh. I mean they use to reimburse one hundred percent and now it's, uh, now it's reimbursement depending on the grade you get in class and, uh, it's a real shame from what we had before, uh, because we're, Right, uh, actually I lived over in Europe for a couple of years, I lived in Germany
and in Germany they don't have the jury system. What they do is they have, uh, three judges, basically. And you get up there and the prosecuting attorney presents his evidence and your defense attorney presents their evidence and those three guys take the evidence, go off, figure it out and then come back and say whether you're guilty or not. our judicial system is in such total chaos. I think what they need to do is, they need to somehow take the money out of it. I mean, when you have a man that's signed a, a, a statement saying he's guilty, we have a, a family called All day family. They were all murdered. Uh-huh. All the people signed confessions, they went to a trial by jury. They been trying these people now for twenty-two years, ever since I was a child. Wow. And what they've done is they've bought Mercedes after Mercedes after Mercedes is what they've done, has nothing to do with justice whatsoever. Well, you know, it's, it's one of those things, I mean, uh, uh, I would have to look at it.
if they did it with the, uh, just the judges, the police have to do a lot better job of making sure that their evidence is airtight because the judges sitting in that kind of stuff day after day, they know all the procedures, they know what's good and what isn't, they'd be able to say, I'm sorry, you can't use this as, uh, evidence, you know, because it was either illegally obtained or whatever and, you know, you wouldn't have this, uh, uh, theatrics where the lawyer jumps up and presents it to the, to the jury and then the judge says, oh, no, disregard that. Come on, any jury's not going to disregard the evidence, you know Uh, that's true. I, I, I think our judicial system is attorney welfare myself. That may very well be. I, I hold it in the utmost contempt. Uh, The, uh, my favorite is the police department, they're not aimed at the criminal. The judicial system is aimed at the citizens because you and I, we have work schedules, we can be called at work,
we have Social Security numbers, they can trace us down, we have telephones, then we have checkbooks. Criminals have none of these things. They're real difficult to catch, and if they do catch them, they don't get any monetary gain out of it, whereas us, we write a check. Yeah. So where do you think they target their efforts? That's true. They target their efforts toward the citizens not the criminals. Well, How would you go about changing it? You know, that's a, I've nailed the problem down but I, Leave the details up to somebody else, huh. Yeah, I'm going to have to leave those details like, what would you do about, I think, to begin with, you would you would have, like, here in Atlanta area, our crime rate is just astronomical,
yet, you go out on the streets and they're giving speeding tickets. Yeah. I think somehow you have to separate the revenues from, Well, you know, uh, talking about the lawyers, you know what might very well do, uh, cause a, uh, a drop in the number of lawyers and things like that, is to set the fees for cases. It's kind of like do it, do it in the similar vein similar, like, uh, V C R or television repair. If you take your T V in, a lot of these T V repair places will say, well, I'll repair your T V for a hundred dollars, and if he gets in there and starts rooting around and finds something in there that's really tremendously wrong with it, then he eats it. He, he repairs it, gives it back to you, and takes your hundred dollars. Now, if he comes in and says, you know, I'll repair your, your V C R, or somebody else's V C R, for a hundred dollars, gets in there, maybe it's a blown fuse, takes him two minutes, he fixes it, he still charges you that hundred dollars. So, maybe if we did that with the lawyers, so that, you know, whether it's a murder case or a, you know, a civil, uh, somebody suing somebody else, you get X dollars for that case and that's it. Now, I firmly believe in that None of this, because when you get the most heinous of crimes, have you ever noticed you always get the most renowned defense attorney? Oh, yeah.
And here's this bum that didn't have a job Yeah. and he's got a attorney that you and I could never afford. That's true. Who's paying for that? Yeah. Um, well, you, you know, you're talking to part of them that's paying for that Yeah, and you're talking to the other half that's paying for it That's right. You know that's, it, it's, it's amazing and, and when you stop and look at it, I mean, the judges, they're all former lawyers. Yeah, well, that's another problem. I think to really correct the judicial system, you have to get the lawyers out of it I mean, they're, they're totally and morally bankrupt without any ethics whatsoever, and with that type person running it, I mean, you, you could expect that you, Do you know anyone that, uh, is, is in a nursing home or has ever been in one? No. But I, my grandparents were looking into it before
so I know what they've said. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Well, I'm trying to think. My, uh, uh, wife's grandmother had Alzheimer's and they were going to put her into a, a nursing home and, uh, they, when they put her in, she had all kinds of trouble and the nursing home made them come and take her back because she was being a, a, you know, a, a nuisance. Or worse than a nuisance, I mean she sort of went, you know, bananas they thought it was too much of a bother. and they couldn't, couldn't deal with her So, I guess you need to, uh, know whether it's a, you know, a no deposit, no return kind of thing whether Right. If they're equipped too, to handle the kind of patients you're going to have you know, put in there too. Yeah. Because I know my grandparents wanted to have some independence still. Right. They wanted some place they can go and have their meals and a nurse on staff just in case they needed her but they wanted to be independent as well. Have their own room. Right.
My grandmother actually was in a, a nursing home that, uh, there was a retirement hotel and then a, uh, there was some sort of full-time care place that was also associated with it so for, uh, the first few years she had her own apartment and, you know, made her own meals sometimes. But could, could also go and eat someplace else. Uh-huh. And then, uh, as she became less able to take care of herself, then she moved into this other part that was able to, uh, provide full-time care and, uh, she didn't have to do anything anymore. But my experience has been that most people that move into nursing homes die very quickly. And that's I don't know whether that's because they, you know, sort of give up hope once they get in there or what the, the reason is. But I think the average length of time that somebody lives in a nursing home is only like six months or something. Well a lot of it's probably to do with the fact that people go to it because they need help. Yeah. They need health care so they're already ill before they go. Right. That's probably a large factor. Yeah. If, if you can take care of yourself at all or have someone that can take care of you, then you stay where you are. Then you only go there as a last resort.
Uh-huh. Or people send you there as a last resort. Right, right. That's what my grandparents, it was just so that the rest of the relatives would have peace of mind knowing that if anything happened, there was somebody there for them. Uh-huh. So that was their thinking. Somebody who would know what to do in the event of an emergency. Right. And also so they could find someplace that they enjoyed while they still had choices to make. So they wouldn't be stuck going into just whatever nursing home was available at the time. Right. I guess that's a problem too for people. Wait lists and all. Yeah, I guess. That, uh, you can't always get in when you want too and of course, you can't just sit around and wait. Right. When you need it, you need it I guess.
Yeah. And the money is also another issue. How you're going to pay for it. Right. At that stage of life you only have so much money left and I guess it's not exactly fair for the younger family members to have to put it in their savings. Yeah. I mean it is kind of fair, but it's also not fair because they have their own children to raise. Sure. So it's another problem. And you probably, if it were you, you probably wouldn't want someone choosing a place for you to live based on lowest price. Right, right. So, it, it's just so complicated anymore, I think People outlive their savings. And, with medicine being the way it is, you're extending life where sometimes the quality of living has gone down and they're not necessarily enjoying life anymore. Yeah. Well maybe that's the purpose of the nursing home is to have them go someplace where they can see that it's not worth continuing. It's just a shame that's the way it has to be.
I think the retirement home idea's a nice idea. To go and find older people and with similar interests and someplace to stay Yeah. and cause like if your spouse died, all alone, it'd be nice to go someplace with people similar to you. To have friends. Right. Yeah, I've known quite a few people that have, uh, gone to retirement communities. I don't know if they have them back there but here in California and in Okay. Uh, so, what do you think, uh, about putting the elderly in a nursing home? Well, I think that it, it varies on on the individual basis. Huh. Uh, sometimes it is, there is no alternative. Uh-huh Uh, you do not have, uh, uh, family available or family that's, uh, you may not even have family that is, uh, uh, in, you know, who are around. That's true. Yeah. So, sometimes it's not an alternative. Huh
And I think, uh, but I think also, sometimes it can be, uh, a benefit if it's for a short time. Sometimes in a nursing home Uh-huh. uh, especially if, if it's after an acute illness. To get over a, or to rehab after, uh, an illness. That's true. I never thought of that. Yeah. Sometimes you know, sometimes the nursing homes are good for, uh, just short periods of time. That's true, until they get over that hump of whatever it is they're dealing with. Uh-huh. Because too often the acute hospitals will, are sending them out much faster than what they're really able to. Yes. They really are. They don't like to keep them longer than a week. So so there is some good to it. Yeah. Uh, sometimes too, it's used as a dumb job.
You know the well the families do not necessarily uh, know what to do with them What do you mean? and they don't want to take the responsibility so they will put them in a nursing home. Yeah, that's true. So you see, uh, there's both sides to it too. What do you think? Yeah and it depends on how, how sick the person is too. What you're capable of, like if you have a family to take care of, you know, of your own Yeah. Yeah, uh, I would personally like it if my parents were to get ill, I would like to take care of them at home and if I had the money with some help. That's not always possible. That's true. But, uh, to the best of my ability, I'd like to do it until it gets impossible I think that's also where you're going to have a lot of people who are going to, it's there's not a choice, it's because, it's not economically feasible even to put them in a nursing home.
Right. Uh-huh Yeah. So that, that option sometimes is not available if they do not have the, uh, either Medicare or insurance to cover it. That's true. Yeah. So, But I think nursing homes can be good. It just depends on what kind they are. You know, you need to check them out ahead of time. Yeah, and then there's also some that are set up for specialties Uh-huh. uh, I know some. Unfortunately, some elderly have to go to or have, I guess it's Alzheimer's or where they wonder or, or, uh, confused or have some mental problem Uh-huh. Yeah, that they're And you need a special nursing home for that. You need one that has a unit that's locked where they are not able to get out and roam around
Yeah. and you need people who are trained for that type of problem. Right. Who know what they're doing with that. Yeah so, so there's different types of nursing homes I think. Yeah well, my, uh, grandmother's not really in a nursing home, but a retirement home that also has a nursing home sort of attached to it. And she really liked the idea of, of moving there. She's not ill yet Uh-huh. but, uh, she worked there as a volunteer for about ten years and then she decided that, uh, she's eighty five years old, that eventually, you know, she she doesn't want her family taking care of her and being a burden. She's very independent. So she's in this nursing home. It's out in the country and, uh, she really enjoys it right now because she doesn't have to wash dishes or cook Gives her a little bit of her own independence Uh-huh. but she still has, uh, a security there.
Right. Some support. And then there's also, uh, sort of a wing for those people that do get sick and, what I like about it and I think she likes about it is that she knows everybody there now and then, so if she ever does become ill, uh, it will be like family around her. That's right and I I've seen some of them like that too Yeah. and also they have a lot of, uh, activities going on for the ones who are more active. Uh-huh Yeah. So it's not sort of like, uh, uh a sick place. Uh-huh No, she loves it. She has a great social life and she travels and, uh, it's in, in the in the mountains and it's beautiful and, uh, I, I hope that I have something like that when I get older
Yeah I, I think, I think the, uh I think that the decision that needs to be made though on nursing home has to be a joint one between the, uh, elderly uh, person who's going in and the family that's going to be, uh, effected by it Uh-huh Uh-huh. Oh definitely it's, and, uh, you know, sometimes it can, those those choices can be made in advance and sometimes the choices because of the nature of the illness when they're, Right. So, uh, do you happen to be working for a large firm? Well, it's about three hundred and fifty people. I guess that's not large compared to some, but it's big enough. Uh-huh. And they have a, they don't have any kind of pension plan where they contribute anything and I wish they did. Yeah. You know, they have a four O one K, but I put all the money into it. Uh-huh. They don't add anything.
What about you? Uh, I work for a fairly large company. It's got eight thousand people. Uh-huh. And, uh, we do have health insurance. We don't have four O one K plan, stuff like that, but we do have, like, retirement. They kind of match up to, you, if you put six percent, they match up to six percent, and then the rest is whatever you want to put in. If you put more than that or something like that. Oh, that's a pretty good deal. It's not bad. Now, how long does it take for your contribution to vest? God, I don't know. It's probably a long time I'm sure it's not till like twenty-five years, thirty years. Yeah, the place I work at's, health insurance is kind of expensive. It's like hundred bucks a, a month or something for a family. Yeah.
Huh, well, I guess what we have is like a what they call a flex benefits plan where you, you get like a certain amount of dollars and then you spend it on a cafeteria of whatever you want or need. Otherwise you can, uh, guess you can put, also put money, hold money back and then either use or lose it and that doesn't get taxed or can just have that money, you know, put in your paycheck. Yeah, we have one of those use it or lose it plans, too, where, uh, they'll basically pay for, uh, you know, child care type, uh, expenses. I can send in a, uh, can send in a request for payment and they'll, uh, and they'll send me, a check for the amount they withheld. That's pretty good, you know. It's, uh, it saves a third off on taxes or something. Yeah well, it depends on which company you work for. I know that, like, the, the, the one plan that everyone seems to be in, in my place is, uh, you know, you, uh, think you call it plan D another example like I guess it's alzheimer's Deductibles are really high, it's like fifteen hundred dollars, but if you go for the other ones you're paying too much money for them because it's unlikely, if you're relatively, uh, healthy, then it's really unlikely that you'd use that much, amount of money, you know. So, it, someone did start a cost benefit analysis, and ends up the best is to take a high deductible and, and take a loss, whatever happens to be, if you happen to be a healthy individual Yeah, I guess, uh, on the other hand, you know, I, I had a similar, had a similar health plan
and, uh, one of my kids was in a car accident and, uh I had, wound up having to pay for, you know, a bunch of doctor visits and stuff out of my pocket because of, you know, no, no insurance policy happened to cover it, which is, Um. Really? You mean, not even your, your, your car insurance? Well, it, it got all screwed up because I had a high deductible on the health insurance, no fault here, and, and I had a high deductible on the on the, uh, on the car insurance and then you know, we just goofed up the medical insurance and the car insurance and stuff and blew it Oh, that's too bad. Oh, well. Yeah uh, well, I don't know, I think other than health insurance, I think, uh, you know, an extra week of, uh, time off would be nice. I only get two weeks. Yeah, yeah my place you get two weeks when you start and then every, every year they give you an extra day until you've got four weeks. Oh, that's nice. We don't get them till, till your seventh year of service till you get an extra week.
Aye. That's a long time. Yeah, it's, uh, Yeah, especially in the kind of engineering job I'm in, you know, companies don't stay afloat that long and, and they, Uh, with the telecommunications type of company, supposedly you, used to be much more stable. It's a lot less stable than it used to be. They used to have job security but now they don't. So you work for Bell or something like that? Yeah, it's the Bell Corps, which is, uh, Right. Yeah. Right. So, I don't know, it's, it's, uh, no longer So that's what,
I think it's still based on the old model of, and, and now they don't, uh, A lifelong job security telephone pioneers of America, Yeah. all that stuff, huh. Yeah, but they, no, no longer I don't think so. Right. Uh, hearing a there's always, they're always laying people off, which is another benefit that you can have other than salary is trade that off for security. Is it, I mean, does it, they must have pretty good severance, though, huh? Oh, I don't know, we don't, we haven't been doing layoffs. We've been doing, uh, down sizing with, uh, getting rid of extra layers of management. And, uh, I don't know what they do for those people. Mean the, the, the management they get rid of? Some of it,
yeah. Um. There's too many manage, too many chiefs and not enough Indians but, Oh, they, they put, Well, have you ever served on a jury? No, I've not. I've been called, but I had to beg off from the duty. And you? Well, I was called and then I was not chosen. Um. Well, I was, I was, uh, originally chosen primarily, I think, because I was a young fellow and they tend to view the younger fellows as more likely to hand down a guilty verdict. I don't know why. Something I picked up in a psychology class some time ago. Oh, really? Yeah,
it's that the younger they are, they tend to be more conservative for some statistical oddball reason, and they kind of liked me. I looked and all that stuff and they, I don't know what they saw in me, but they saw it. But, uh, back to the issue, is, uh, I don't know, at times I feel that a unanimous decision is warranted, especially in cases in which there's no smoking gun. But, there, too, there are also cases in which I feel a majority rule might be acceptable, particularly, I think in civil cases. In criminal cases, I'd like to see the unanimity remain, but in civil cases, I think a majority rule by, by jury would be sufficient. Well, uh, could you give me an example of a case where you think that? Well, in a criminal case, say one in which, you know, there is, like, say assault or some such. I think there ought to be a unanimous, uh, vote because by law and by constitution there must be proven beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt that the person in question did this. And in civil law there, you know, is such a thing as like, let's say, uh, misappropriations or misuse of financial instruments or something like that. A majority rule, I think, would be more in line as there is no real smoking gun in the civil cases. I don't know if I'm making any sense or not. Well, I mean, I think, are you just trying to say that criminal cases are more, uh, tangible or,
Yeah, often there's more incriminating evidence. Like, for instance, say, uh, and also, too, I think I'm, I'm tempering this and the fact that the consequences are much more, uh, serious in a criminal case. Well, do you think that, that in a civil case, if there was majority rule, that it would be easy for someone to be set up? Um, well, I really can't say for certain, truth be known. Uh, as it stands, there's, there's many ways and means by which a person can be set up, both, uh, in a uh, civil and criminal case. I mean, the, uh, documentary, the THIN BLUE LINE pretty much demonstrated that. You know, I don't know for, if you're familiar with that or not. No, I'm not. A, uh, fellow when he was much younger, uh, was tried and convicted and sentenced to death. Fortunately, in his case, the death penalty was revoked and, uh, so he served out his, his sentence until it was discovered by a fellow who was making a documentary called the THIN BLUE LINE that this guy had basically gotten railroaded through the judicial system. The case was reopened and he was exonerated. Well, I mean, I think that there are many cases in our judicial system where justice is not served. Yeah, many laws, but little justice. Say,
but, uh, and I also think, just like you were talking about before, why you were chosen to be on a jury that, uh, the, just, the process of picking jurors is not always objective. Oh, certainly not, certainly not. And you know, they like to think that they're getting someone who's objective in all this, but they're really looking for someone who will pretty much fulfill the lawyers' desires. You know, the, because you get up and, and they ask you a few questions, both sides do, and then you, you're either challenged which is, you know, each attorney can use that as much as they like or, I think it's a limit now, they probably have a limit now, but, they pretty much go through that, and then you have to give a reason to the court why you can't serve. For me, it was financial hardship, so. But, onto the thing, uh, I was never aware that juries had any say on recommending sentencing. It was always my impression that the Justice himself, or herself, had the final say. Okay,
so I guess it starts recording now. Okay. Okay. I don't know, really know that much about the recycling in this area that we're in. We live in the Saginaw area. Saginaw? Uh-huh. And I'm not real familiar with, uh, anything that, I, fact as far as I know, the school doesn't have any kind of programs or anything out here. And, uh, or the grocery store or anything in this area, Really? yeah. The we live in Plano and they started off recycling by, uh, putting the, I think at each Wal-Mart, they had some recycling dumpsters and things like that, which now, I guess the, uh, city is, has bought the big green trash cans and, uh, we, they have a recycling truck that comes around now and you separate your glass and paper and, uh, aluminum Uh-huh.
and you set it out and they pick it up and it, it works real neat. They seem to be having a real good response. Really? So, That is pretty good. I'm, we're originally from another state and I know in the state we were from that they did that similar type thing. The city brought ought, you know, set separate trash cans and you separated your stuff and you put it in there and they took it, you know. Did they, did they, like on bottles, did they give you a so many cents back for for cans I don't really know. I don't really know, they, they started after we moved down here and so I, I'm not really familiar. Yeah. I just know that, uh, my in-laws up in, up in Oklahoma, that's how they do, you know, they pick it up,
but I don't know if they get a, get anything back on it or, do you get money for it? No, I just, I noticed it Iowa and other cities like that, it's a nickel per aluminum can. Oh. So you don't see too many thrown out around the streets. Or even bottles. Really You know, all kinds of bottles they, they, they really charge people to, I guess when you purchase them and, and then when you turn them back in. Right. I I remember the old days as a kid where bottle was a nickel. Right. And now, now most of them are throwaway. Right. So, maybe that's one thing they can do. I think now they're a lot more expensive than that. Uh, I bought some Cokes the other day in the the little bottles you know, Uh-huh. and I think the bottles were like, I know they were at least ten cents apiece. I to at home,
I was like, God, how much were those bottles you know? Yes. And, it was, they come in like, uh, eight and, and eight and ten packs, you know instead of six packs Right. and, uh, and they were like, it was like two dollars and something for the bottles. You know, I was like God Almighty, it costs more for the bottles than it did for the Cokes. That was my brother's first job in a grocery store. He was in the bottle area In the It's pretty dangerous out there, you know, when they fall over, but but it's, uh, it's quite, Right. they say that the green glass now, that there's a big glut of green the green glass, Oh, really? Of green glass. yeah. It's amazing. Well, out in this area, they really don't have anything. Now, I know that like Minyard's and places like that around like Arlington and Fort Worth and a lot of those grocery stores, they have like four different bins out front. Uh, different colors for different things and, and things like that,
Uh-huh. Right. but I, I do know some of these places were doing that and they discontinued them because people were coming and dumping their trash in them. Right. Yeah it's, I notice the plastic have sort of faded away, the milk jugs. Yeah. It, it's, people just, they, they really don't, uh, there's too much labor involved I guess to separate the stuff. Yeah, more than it's worth. It's, I don't know, it, it can be, it's not as easy selecting, you know, clean junk as they say. Right.
Well, who wants to clean their junk before they throw it away That's right, that's right. It's like washing the dishes before you put them in the dishwasher. Right, uh, yeah. We all do it Well, it was nice talking to you. It was nice talking to you. I have no idea how long this is supposed to last or anything. Oh, I think, I think two or three minutes is fine. Is that it? Yeah. Okay, well, it was nice talking to you and I, I guess I'll do this for, I was doing this for, actually, I was going to do it for my son so that he could, uh, he, he's in high school, so that he could make some money. Right. Uh, but then it has my name on it, so I'm like, okay, I'll sit down here and call it
Well, we're doing it for a church choir so, Oh, are you? Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. So, That's nice. Well, Well, thank you. Thank you. Bye. Bye-bye. So. Have you heard about Saturns? seems to be out of I've heard some about Saturns. I don't know a lot about them. I haven't been over, uh, to a dealer to look at them although I did see something in tonight's paper that said that their, uh reliability is rated to be equal to that of the, I guess, the Japanese cars. Ooh, that's great. Actually that's kind of the type of car that I, I'm thinking about we might get. Saturns, you can't go to a dealer unless you go to a, a Saturn dealer. This, this offshoot of G M Yeah.
And, uh, supposedly, they've got great customer satisfaction from what things I've heard. Um. Yeah, I've heard a lot of people like them. Uh, yet I don't know whether I would buy Saturn or not at this point. I'm kind of, my card and, uh, desires tend to be pretty picky and so, uh. Well, like what? Well, let's see. I I like cars that are designed with, with human beings in mind, and that's not just the driver and the passenger but that's the person who's working on it, cause I do almost all my own maintenance and, uh those types of things. And I found that while you can find some cars that are comfortable to ride in, uh, finding a car anymore that's, that's fairly easy for me to work on, it's just not very it's not very, almost unlikely at this point. Yeah. And, uh, Yeah. I've got a sixty-five Mustang and I, and I do the work on, most of the work on that myself.
Ooh. Uh-huh. And when I look at modern cars and stuff like that, I just say I will never do that with the modern cars. It's not worth my time. You can't get in there. You can't do anything. Yeah. And it's so complicated too. I look at it and I say, boy, you know, I, I'd have to almost go take a class or something like that. Well I've got an eighty-three Saab. Uh-huh. And I find that for a normal, you know, everyday things. It's really very easy to work on and so, uh, you know, I'm kind of spoiled. I used to have a Chevy. Uh-huh. With a three fifty in it. Yeah. And, uh, I really liked working on it. Uh, cause it was pretty easy too.
It was about a nineteen seventy. So I'm kind of, uh, biased in that and, you know, I want a car that I can work on because I think it just costs too much even to get the oil changed anymore. Yeah And that's kind of, that's, that's probably one thing I'd look at. I think another thing I'd look at is safety. Yeah. That's one of the things that my wife and I have thought about. Actually, the car, one of the cars we'd most like to get would be the new ninety-one Ford Taurus cause they're actually one of the cheaper cars that have dual side air bags. Huh. That's a real nice car, I think. Yeah I've driven some, uh, Tauruses over the last couple of years when I've been on business trips. Uh, as rental cars. Uh-huh And I've always been very impressed with the Taurus. It's a really nice car. I think it's very it's a stylish car both inside and out. It's comfortable to drive. Uh, reasonable performance, and this is out in California where, where they don't make a car that's got reasonable performance anymore.
Yeah. Uh, I've been real impressed with that. and I didn't realize that they were putting dual, uh, air bags in that car now. Ninety, yeah. Or, excuse me, the ninety-twos. The ninety-twos had dual air bags. Uh-huh. This newest model. You could get them with duals I think That's excellent. That's excellent because, Yeah. But the thing is that it's twenty thousand dollars. Actually, my, my wife and I are actually thinking, contemplating buying a new car in the next year and a half or so. So we're actually been looking around and thinking about things. Oh. We'd like to get like a oh, I don't know. What do you call it?
A dealer return type thing on a ninety-two and ninety-three or something like that you know. Uh-huh. Year old ninety-two or something like that. Uh-huh. Sure. Those are See if we, yeah, that, that would be a good deal to go with. And the other thing we're looking at is the Saturns too. Okay. Because they looked really nice. Uh-huh. What do you, what do you looking for in, in those? What, what attracts you to the Saturns? Or, or, of course, we've already talked, you know, the Taurus is safe. But what kind of things are you looking for? Well, the Saturns you can get air bags in them. I don't think you can get dual side air bags.
Uh-huh. But one of the, the two things that I'm really, the, the I'd say the most important thing is a car that's not going to fall apart. That doesn't have problems. Uh-huh. You set down. You look at consumer reports. We've been pouring over consumer reports and you just get so depressed for the U S auto makers when you do that. Yeah. Because you see the reliability and the types of problems they have and, and the two cars that apparently are close to that. That actually have high reliability, the Taurus is one of the highest U S cars. Uh-huh. And the other one is, are the Saturns. Uh-huh. So those two things. And then, you know, we kind of want a four door. Okay Okay. What is your, uh, community, uh, currently doing with regard to recycling? Uh, basically, they're just, uh, having various recycling, uh, bins, uh, located for, uh, trash pickup.
Uh-huh Well that's more than we have up here in Massachusetts. Some, some local communities are very active in that, uh, in that respect and they do have bins set up. But I live in a, a metropolitan area and, uh, they're not, uh, too inclined to do something as aggressive as that Well, here they and, uh, live in an apartment complex. Uh-huh. And they only have one set of recycling bins, one or two sets as opposed to a set at each of the dumpsters. So a lot of the people who live up front don't bother to recycle because, you know, it's too far to carry the stuff to the other bins. I, I know a lot, I think a lot of, uh, the, the issues with regard to recycling are that, uh, people have to be motivated to do, to do something like that because it does take extra effort. Whether and, and I think that, and I know Massachusetts has, a bottle bill was passed and we have had a bottle bill for quite a few years now, and the majority of the incentive in recycling bottles probably, believe it or not, is just to get the extra nickel at the, uh, the store and not, uh, that's the majority of people that I know of anyways. Where people aren't really, you know, eco conscious. It's just the fact that it's something they have to do. And I'm not going to throw a bottle away,
it's like throwing a nickel away. That type of thing. Right. They, here they're trying to push through a bill But, uh, people need to be more conscious of it. and a lot of people are against it. And it's going to create a lot more work for the, uh, the stores that sell, you know, sodas and stuff. Because they want to implement a refund on cans and on plastic bottles and everything. Yeah It didn't, it, it took awhile for that bill to be passed up here as far as recycling bottles and cans. Uh, and, and matter of fact, I think it took like three tries for it to go through. But, and it's been pretty successful and people notice it as far as, uh, highways being, uh, you know, people would have a drink of soda, instead of throwing out the window, they, they keep the bottle so it's, it's been a ecologically sound policy and, you know, as, as far as recycling your bottles in terms of trash and so forth. But more importantly, it's recycling reusable materials back into, uh, manufacturing. And that's the big thing, I think, that they try to promote. Right. I think here if they, uh, instead of just, you know, requiring that you put, put out the trash and stuff, if they could get some kind of rebate, those people who do put the stuff out, uh, you know, and separate it, have lower collection fee or something may encourage people to separate.
Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah. there definitely has to be a motivation factor and I know that, at where I work, I work for a defense contractor. And there's a big push on for recycling, uh, paper materials, you know, computer output paper and also to decrease the amount of, uh, Styrofoam usage because of the, uh, the process involved in Styrofoam and, and the whole eco issue and that. And, and they're very proactive and, uh, matter of fact, they give you discounts if you use, uh, china wear rather than, uh, Styrofoam stuff, so. So, it's incentives like that that get people people more conscious of it. I think that's, that's what they need to do. Be more like that. Uh, I know, uh, I believe it was last year that they actually collected the old phone books. Uh, usually have them come from you know, projects to collect old ones. Usually just get dumped out with the trash. And phone books are a large volume of annual trash. Yeah. They, they just, matter of fact, that, that reminded me of an article I saw in the the local schools, you could send your phone book to your, uh, to, with your kid to school and what they'll do is they'll recycle it.
Because there was an article or a story done awhile ago that, uh, trash, uh, the telephone books are the type of thing that don't break down over a long period of time. A guy went to a a landfill, dug down five feet and, and pulled up a phone book from like nineteen sixty because they don't, they don't degrade over such a period of time. Well, part of the problem with recycling them in the past has been the covers are made with a clay based paper. Yeah. They contain the glue and stuff and they used to have to take out all the, uh, pages and then cut the spine off to be able to recycle them. Yeah. Now I think they've come up with some way of, uh, pulling the glue out. Yeah. Okay Uh, let's see. How about, uh, let's see, about ten years ago, uh, what do you think was different ten years ago from now? Well, I would say as, far as social changes go, uh, I think families were more together. They, they did more things together. Uh-huh Uh, they ate dinner at the table together. Uh, the parents usually took out time, uh, you know, more time than they do now to come with the children and just spend the day doing a family activity. Uh-huh.
Uh, although I'm not a mother, I, I still think that, uh, a lot has changed since ten years ago. Uh, what do you think about that? We, Well, uh, actually ten years from today seems rather short. Yeah. Uh, but I do agree that, uh, generally it's, society has sort of, uh, let's see, rushed everything ahead. Uh-huh. And, uh, I don't know, it leaves, leaves a lot of time out for family and things like that. In other words, they just prioritize their lives differently. But I think that has a lot to do with economic situation. Yes. What about like as far as, uh, social changes in the individual? Do you think that the individual has as much time as they did, let's say, ten, twenty years ago? Uh, Um. It depends. Uh, it's hard to say because I think people were busy ten twenty years ago too. Uh-huh. Uh, I just Well, how, how old are you?
I'm twenty-eight. Twenty-eight. Okay, I'm twenty-three. Yeah. So there's maybe a five year gap between us. Yeah. So, uh. I just, I think that things were a bit, were, have been busy all along. It's just a matter where priorities are, at placed. And that, uh, usually as far as families are concerned, there used to be just one person working and usually the other parent was home. Huh Yes. Uh-huh. And now, uh, it's pretty much an economic necessity of, for most, in most places for both parents to work. Do you think it's an economic necessity or do you think that we're, we're, uh, all trying to keep up with a certain standard of living? I think that's part of it too. But I do think, I mean do you think, people really need two cars and a house in the suburbs or, No,
no. I don't. No, I don't think that. But then there are a lot of people that, that don't have that. But, that really do need to work. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I think maybe those people that really do need to work, both parents, just to survive. And then there, is, is that other group that is working to maintain a standard of living that, uh, they think is, is surviving which is really more luxuries. Yeah. Uh-huh. Okay. Uh-huh. Uh, but I I tend to think that it's less those people that have the two cars and everything than it is the group that is just trying to survive. so you think it's, which group are you saying is the one trying? I'm saying that the, uh, the group that is just trying to survive from day to day, where both parents are working is more of the majority than the, than the people that have the higher standard of living. Uh-huh. Because if you look at economics across this country and statistics on who has the money and who the decreasing, uh, middle class in this country I think that that's, in my opinion, the case. Uh-huh.
Okay. So. I mean I have met people that, uh, both that, that just want to maintain a, the standard of living and those that, that really need the job. Okay. And then, sometimes I, I often, uh, find that maybe there's so many different things available to us. a microwave, a V C R, a answering machine a, you know, a special, a dishwasher, uh, a refrigerator and some of those items, um, for the, for the, uh, Uh-huh. well I guess we're sticking more to social changes but, uh people want all of that Uh-huh. and not all of those are necessities. Right So they're trying to, it has become a necessity Okay. I say they, uh, probably the best things to do is, is tie them with a rope and throw them in the water they they're innocent right. I see. A a good, a good southern solution. Yeah.
Uh, so, uh, how do you, how do you feel? that's, of course, being facetious but Uh-huh. You'd have to say that. Uh, I don't know. The, the things they asked to talk about were whether the, uh, whether the judge should be the one that does the, uh, sentencing. Uh-huh. And seems to me that that's, I think that's the way it's done now. Uh, at least, my understanding of the law which isn't very good. Uh-huh. Uh, it seems to me that the judge does it and I, I think that's probably all right in that they, you know, maybe know what the, the norm is for a particular thing. Uh-huh. And, I guess, also what the system will absorb Right. Probably more tuned in to that. Possibly though on, uh, capital cases like maybe the death penalty Uh-huh. uh, I'm kind of undecided on that whether the judge should have the sole,
I mean he could have like a personal prejudice. You know, judges are people like everybody else even though they're, they're supposed to be impartial That's right. but maybe, uh, And I think that may, I, that may be an exception as well. Because I think that, doesn't the jury decide on the death penalty rather than, than the judge? I, I think that's, I think that's the way it is. Yeah. Uh, whether they, they decide whether or not they, uh, the accused or whatever would get the, uh, get the death penalty. Do they have a death penalty in California? Yes. In fact, they're going to execute somebody at the end of this month. Yeah. Uh-huh. And, uh, there's a big uproar going on right now. Uh Yeah. the, uh, Governor, you know, has been trying to decide whether he's going to commute it or not. Uh-huh. You know, it's someone who had, uh, killed two teenage boys here in San Diego as a matter of fact.
Yeah. I, something like that, I've got no problem with it. Uh Yeah. I guess the way I think about it is not, it shouldn't necessarily be thought of as revenge. It's just like if you've got like a dog that's running wild and biting people Uh-huh. put it to sleep, you know. Just get it out, you know, it's not able to fit in, you know Something inexpensive. Yeah. Yeah, exactly Uh, I guess, kind of the way I think about it also, is they just, if somebody gets the death penalty, they're, they're judged guilty, they got the death penalty, they should have one year and one appeal. Cover all their bases with one appeal and if not, you know, don't, don't let them sit up there on death row for, you know, fifteen years. Yeah.
I think this particular case has been like ten or fifteen years. Uh-huh. Yeah, that, But I guess there have been several cases where people have been executed by mistake and you'd hate to be one of those. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure Yeah. The other thing they asked about was whether uh, uh, the verdict should be required to be unanimous. Which, again, I think is the way it is now. That all the, all verdicts, Uh-huh. well maybe not. I don't know. At least in capital cases I'd think they'd have to be unanimous. I believe it is in capital. I think in like, uh, lesser cases it's like ten out of twelve or five out of six, whatever How ever many is on, sitting on a jury. Uh-huh. I I believe that's the way it is. But I'm pretty sure you're correct on capital cases. Uh Yeah.
The paper here tonight had a thing about the Noriega trial. And that there's one juror that is, is, uh, different than the other eleven. Uh-huh. Yeah. And, uh, they've only deliberated four hours or, something and they say they're hopelessly deadlocked. Oh, no the judge told them they weren't hopelessly deadlocked yet I'm telling you, go one way or the other. That, that's probably an expensive trial. Yeah. Six months so far they said. Yeah. Probably. So. Yeah. Probably. You know, I'm not sure there's a number. It's probably like thirty, forty thousand dollars a day you know, worth of all the free for all. Maybe they could go with a, with a nine hundred number and have people dial in and give their, uh, vote. Yeah
Yeah, that's, that's been so long I've practically forgot who Noriega was, you know. Right. That has been going on My, uh, cousin is a F B I agent down in Miami. Oh really? Yeah. So she follows that stuff pretty closely. But, uh, That's interesting. Yeah, she's not involved in that, that case. But she does, Well have you ever served on a jury? No I haven't. I never have. My wife has but I, I haven't. Uh-huh.
I got called but I, uh, never, uh, got selected for a jury Uh-huh. I sat for ten days in a court room while they went through the selection process, Uh-huh. and they had some guy that was, uh, defending himself. Uh-huh. Bye to someone speaking to So we're, uh, our discussion's about, uh, the care of the elderly? That's right, that's right. You know, what, what, uh, what do you think is important? If you were, uh, I don't know how, how old you are, but if you had, if you had, uh, parents say or, or, or grandparents, whatever it is, uh, who were ready, who, who you thought might benefit from a nursing home, what do you think you would look for? Uh, well I, actually my dad's, my dad's almost ninety and he lives by himself Huh. and he's in good shape. Yeah.
Uh, but, uh, some friends of mine have, uh, gone through this. I think I'd look for a home where they got a lot of attention and, uh, where they did some things to try to keep them, um, mentally alive. And where there was, uh, caring and compassionate, where there were caring and compassionate people, uh, operating it. Yeah. Do you have any experience with this yourself? Huh. Well my, uh, uh, my wife's grandmother is in a nursing home in, uh, Minnesota Uh-huh. and we go there, uh, once a year. We see, we tend to see her there cause we're in Boston so we're pretty far away. When we visit Minnesota though we go to see her. Uh-huh. And it seems, uh, I mean the, the environment there, I don't know too much about it but it, it seems nice enough. Uh, it, it's hard, at least half of the residents I would say are not, not mentally sound. So it's hard to tell how much of that rubs off on those who are struggling to to retain, uh, clarity, say, uh, know From the lack of stimulation, you mean. Yeah.
Well I, I I don't know. We, we also, my wife and I, uh, uh, volunteer to go to a, uh, nursing home that's just a mile from our house. We, uh, she goes more often than I. We used to go once a month, once every two months to visit some of the patients there. And we'd take, we have a two year old son and so we, sometimes we'd take him with us. And, uh, there I would say it's the same thing. It's, it's a nice, uh, relatively nice environment but again, um, it must be depressing for the people who, who are, who are just essentially not able to take care of themselves in their own house but, but, certainly, uh, certainly have are, have retained all of their, uh, mental skills and so on. It's, must be depressing to, to walk, walk the halls and see, and see all these other people who really don't know where they are. Do you think that in the case of the one that you've actually had some experience with, that the people who operate it seem to have, what you'd perceive of as genuine concern? I think, yeah, I think they're relatively respectful. Yeah and, and concerned that, in as much as they can be. I, I think sometimes, you know, I've noticed, uh, people asking for, uh, some of the patients asking for things, uh, just repetitively and, but things that are not reasonable, Uh-huh. and so at some level the, the, the, uh, Yeah. I'm sure that the, that the, uh, the staff learn what's normal for this person and so it looks to me like maybe their not catering to this person's needs is really because this person is just, you know, is just in a state where they don't really need what they think they need, you know. Yeah.
It, it's possible, I was thinking also that there'd be, there could be a fair burn out factor um, in just having to respond to people's needs where the needs are sometimes, depending on the person, not going to be what we would perceive of as rational need. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'll tell you one thing though that'll, that, that I, I saw that was really nice. We saw a husband and wife, we used to see a husband and wife in there, uh, together and they were in the same room which not all husband and wives were but these two were. Uh-huh. And when you walked into their room, they had brought all their furniture from their house Uh-huh. So it gives them a sense of identity. And so, Yeah, you walked in there and it didn't look like, uh, you know, how, you, you walk into some rooms and there's, it's completely generic. There's nothing, maybe a picture or two that belongs to that person and that's it.
But this room, on the other hand, you know, they got rid of all of the sort of standard issue beds and dressers and this and that and they had all their stuff from their house and it looked like, uh, it must have been, it was nicer to walk in there and to talk to them and it must also give them a sense of, uh, uh, security and, and, uh, and, and, you know, uh, Yeah, I, I think part of what you're saying matches what I have read. I used to initially think that the only people who went into such residences were people who, uh, were adequately deficient in their abilities, uh physical or mental, that they couldn't take care of themselves. Yeah. But I also know a couple of people whose parents have gone into such things because I think they provide, um, a lot of social activities. Huh. Yeah. Uh, the, one of my friend's parents who went in because she had largely lost her abilities and she was in there for awhile when they were away on vacation. Uh, and, Huh. temporary. I, that, that's, that's new to me. I,
Well I think it, I think it was sort of on the grounds that they were considering whether she would live there and I feel like, the whole vocabulary of this is very loaded if you think of words like, like put her in there. Right, right. And there, there's so much, Okay. Uh, so your, you, I guess you're probably in the same, uh, same situation uh, we're in. We're kind of past having to provide child care. Our, our kids are grown up. We don't have any grandchildren yet. But, uh, uh, they're, Uh-huh. How old are your children? Uh, one's twenty-six and the other is, uh, twenty, twenty-one. Uh-huh So they're, uh, uh, They're, they're getting there. Well, they're going to be getting there. You know, there's no no, no prospects right away for anything to happen. Yeah.
uh-huh. Oh, I see. But, uh, I have, uh, five children. I have a eighteen year old son. The of my girls are like twenty-three, twenty-six, twenty-eight, and twenty-nine. Uh-huh. And I have three granddaughters right now. Oh. And, uh, I, uh, one's in Iowa. Uh-huh. And, uh, she's, she's a teacher and what she does is she, teaches at a preschool. Oh, okay. And, and so she kind of, and they let her bring her, her little daughter in for free. Uh-huh. And then, so but she just works part-time.
Uh-huh. Then I have another daughter in, uh, Bountiful, Utah and she has to work full-time and it's just tearing her apart. She has a private baby-sitter. Yeah. And, uh, the baby just screams. I mean, the baby is like seventeen months and she just screams. Uh-huh. Well even if she knows that they're fixing to get ready to go over there. They're not even there yet you know. Uh-huh. Yeah. It's hard. We, And, and then I have my, uh, uh, I have a seven month old granddaughter and, uh, her mother stays home and she, they live, they live with us. You know, in, as Orange County is really expensive. Uh-huh.
Uh-huh. They live with us and so, of course, we love it. Because we get to see this cute little baby all the time. But, uh, uh, she just, uh, she used to work in pre, in the preschool and, and, and child care and she says after working in there and, and, you know, here she was a provider but, you know, there's only so much one person can do. Yeah. She said it's so awful. She said she'll never put her child in a, in a, in a in a in a preschool. Uh-huh. I'm sure there must be some good ones around here somewhere. Huh. But it's really, it's really, really very difficult and, Yeah. What did you do when your kids were growing up? Were you, Well, when, when
the, uh, the first, uh, ten years, see first ten or twelve years, I stayed home. Uh-huh. And, uh, then after that I, I went to work. Uh-huh. And, uh, uh, uh, a couple of times I just, uh, uh, you know, then I had one job and then that job ran out because it was kind of a government seeded type job. And then, and then like about, later I, I tried to get the baby to a baby-sitter. Supposed to be good, uh, recommended person from the church and I knew her personally. She had two kids of her own and everything. But I quit my job because I couldn't stand how she was taking care of my child. Uh-huh. I mean, first of all, uh, her children were sick all the time. So when my son stayed over there, he got sick. He got sick, yeah. Same thing, same thing that the, her kids had, right? Right.
Well, And so, uh, we didn't take her over there until like about eleven o'clock. Then he, she'd take my son and her daughter over to kindergarten. But that day, uh, I was saying now he, he's sick. And she goes well, she goes, he has the same thing that all my kids have. That's what he got, you know. Goes, well, okay, so it's not like he's going to infect her kids. But then what happened was, is, I said, uh, he just threw up and kindergarten starts at eleven thirty so she said well she'll keep him home and he'll probably just sleep anyway. Well, you know, what that woman sent her, sent him to kindergarten. She sent him to kindergarten. As soon as he went there, the teacher took one look at him and he threw up again and they put him in the nursery, uh, they put him in the nurse's office. yeah.
And then what happened was, is, you know, they gave her a call because they knew that she was my baby-sitter. Called her and they said, uh, that he's sick. Well she wasn't home. Huh. I mean her, all her kids were sick but she wasn't home, right. And her, and her, her daughter that was in kindergarten with him also did not go to school because she was sick. Now why didn't he, why didn't she keep him home with her? No, she didn't do that. So, it got to the point where he's, he's supposed to get out of, uh, kindergarten like about two thirty. And I had to leave work. It was, it was five o'clock in the evening and I found out he was still there at school. And they were calling me and they said somebody's got to pick him up. And I kept thinking that she was going to get picked up, she was going to pick him up because she only lives in like two blocks away from the school. I was trying to get my husband to come and pick him up and all that kind of stuff. And he had a hundred and four fever.
They couldn't, uh, give him anything because they're not allowed to at school and everything. Right. I was so furious. I, I quit that job and I stayed home for awhile longer. Then I went and got a, uh, a job in real estate where I can kind of adjust my time a little bit better. Yeah, a little more flexibility. You can come and go. Yeah, but, uh, I haven't had any good, really very good experience with child care Yeah. When, when our kids were small we had a couple of, uh, good, good women who, uh, would often uh, get them to come to the house. So, who's your favorite team? My favorite team is the Pittsburgh Steelers. Pittsburgh? You bet. I used to be a big Pittsburgh fan when I was little. Well, I, uh, when played he was from my hometown in Alabama,
Oh, really? so I kind of grabbed on to that team, way back when. Huh. pretty that's good. I, I used to watch them a lot when they were playing the big iron curtain, or steel curtain. That's right. How about your favorite team? Huh. Well, last year it was Buffalo and I, I still try to keep up with Buffalo because they just, they just impressed me as being so efficient and they never score. They never blow out their opponents. They just score just enough points, Uh-huh. and that really impressed me. But then down here I is pretty close to New Orleans and I've been keeping up with the Saints a lot. Well, they are exciting, aren't they?
Yeah, the Saints are starting to impress me this year, you know, a lot. Boy, they are, they are just a fun team to watch. This, it, they are really. Did you see the game Sunday night or, Sunday afternoon? Uh, no, I didn't. It was funny. There were, they uh, a fireworks display at halftime. Oh, yeah? Yeah, and some paper or something in the Super Dome up in the roof caught on fire. Oh, you're kidding So, they had to stop the game lieu the third quarter and put out this fire. Oh, my Those big piece of something came flaming, falling out of the roof and landed on the field so there's this big fire on the field and they were dumping the bucket and everything. Oh, I can't believe that.
It was I mean, you just really can't tell what's going to happen. That's hilarious. I know. It's like about two weeks ago I was watching the Saints. Uh-huh. And Anderson kicked a sixty yard field goal. Oh. And it, it was beautiful, right down the middle. Oh, boy. He is tough, he has an incredible leg. He is. Yes. Well, do you think they're, they're going to be able to make it this year, past the first playoff game? Uh I I sure hope so. I'm not sure, I'm not sure who they play. Right now I've got it narrowed down to the top four teams. Who's that? It's pretty much going between Washington. They are undefeated. And, uh, Buffalo, New Orleans, and Chicago because Chicago has only lost twice
Right. and one of those was to Buffalo. And they beat the Saints. Their only time they lost. What do you think about, uh, Houston? Houston. I saw Houston play this summer in Memphis. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Uh, from what I saw they were playing, when I was at the game we sat right on the front row, right behind the Houston Oilers, Huh. and from what I saw the game Houston, Houston impressed me a lot. Huh. But my brother watched it on T V and said that Warren Moon was just having an off night, and if that was an off night I'd hate to see when he's on a good night. Oh, yeah, he's he definitely, uh, is one of the best I think. He's, Yeah,
the, their, their backfield is really impressive. Haywood and Drew Hill and Right. they really impress me. Well, they squeaked out a game on Sunday. That's right. Who, who did they play? They played Dallas. Dallas, that's right, They won, in overtime. all because, That's right. I remember that now. So that was, I, I watched that game and, uh, that was, uh, Do you have a favorite between those two? Well, because I'm right here in Dallas I, I kind of pull for Dallas. Really?
Yeah. Well, also Houston is, uh, in Pittsburgh's division so, I'll almost always root against them. Well, that's true. I hate to say it but I hate Dallas That's okay Well I, you know, I, I was never really a big Dallas fan until we moved here Yeah. and they just kind of grew on me. Yeah, I imagine. That's the way, I've never been a big Saints fan until the last year or two and they, they've actually started doing something. Yeah. Yeah. So, I've actually paid attention to them. Well Well, do you know anything about the expansion teams they're thinking about bringing in?
To tell you the truth I haven't paid too much attention to that. Really? Um, what cities are they looking at? Uh, right now I think this Memphis, they're, they're trying to get the teams. Uh-huh. And that's, that's where I was when I saw, uh, Houston play. Uh-huh. Saint Louis is trying to get a team. Uh, Baltimore is trying to get a team, and there's some other city. I'm wanting to say Raleigh but I'm not sure. You know, I think you are right. I think it is Raleigh. Think so? I think I remember hearing that. Uh-huh. Because I know they've got a football team but I think it might be them. That would be fun.
I'd like to see some more teams get in. I would, definitely. I think they are supposed to put two in by either next year or the year after. And right now I think Memphis and, it's Memphis and I think Baltimore have a really good shot at it. Uh-huh. Because I know Saint Louis is much bigger than Memphis and when I went up there they were saying that Memphis sold more tickets than Saint Louis did. Oh, really? Yeah. It's like the Liberty Bowl or Liberty Stadium in Memphis holds about sixty-two, I think that, uh, one, uh, advantage of having, uh, the unanimous verdict is that in a criminal case you want to make sure that you don't, uh, convict someone who, uh, really shouldn't be convicted. Definitely. Um, and I think that, you know, a unanimous verdict, uh, helps to ensure that. I guess maybe one drawback of it is that if you have one juror who is very unreasonable in some way, that, uh, you, uh, would have a problem, uh, you know, that you wouldn't convict someone who maybe should be convicted. Uh-huh. Have you ever served on a jury before? Uh, I have twice. Oh, okay. It was a pretty wild experience. Uh, what sorts of cases were they?
They were just, you know, small time cases where, uh, trailers and banks were involved, you know. So were they criminal or civil? They were civil. They weren't they weren't any criminal. Oh, okay. What, uh, what was the verdict? Did the, did the jury have trouble reaching a decision? Uh, the jury, it was, uh, let me see, I think it was ten to one on the jury, because they only had to have eleven people Yeah. so it was, they, and, uh, the one changed his vote at the end. So did it become? So it became unanimous, you know, after they turned it in Yeah. and then he changed his mind after they turned it in Uh. but it then became unanimous. Uh. But since it was a civil case it really didn't matter, right? You just needed a majority?
Right. What was, what was the other case? That was also civil? The, the other case was just traffic, the, and, you know, it was seat belt law Yeah. and it, it didn't even hardly go through, Oh, didn't really even count. so. Yeah. I'm, I'm a college student so I haven't been, you know, a jury eligible age for very long Yeah. um, and, uh, I did get one summons actually at one point, but I declined it which I'm able to do because I'm a student, because it was, uh, a very bad time. Yeah. Well, you learn a lot going to the juries like that though. Yeah, I mean, I, I really, I would like to, uh, to do at some point, um, but, I, I haven't.
Uh, one, one thing that I, I think is, um, you know, maybe is a problem is, uh, I, I think that the criminal jury system works pretty well now, but I wonder if maybe in some civil cases it doesn't work as well. Especially sort of. I wouldn't think that it does I mean, from, from my, from what I experienced in them, How, it didn't, you know, it didn't turn out the way I planned it, I mean, the way that I would think that it would go. Uh, you thought it turned out pretty well? Yeah, but it was, you know, it was, jury was unorganized and it was, it was just wasn't organized enough for me. Yeah. I'm not used to it not being organized, and I just assumed that it would have been. Oh, so it was just kind of a zoo and the jurors just sort of, someone had to figure out what was going on? That's about what it was. Um. That's interesting. Did it, did it work out pretty well in the end?
I mean, did a couple of people sort of gradually, sort of assume, uh, sort of a moderator role in the trial or, Yeah, they, well they picked one person, and then he finally, you know, moderated everything and made it turn out the way it should have. So it it did end up working out pretty well? Yeah, it ended up working all right. The one thing I sometimes wonder about, um, in civil cases is, uh, whether, especially sort of in, uh, maybe like product liability, or medical malpractice, where there's, um, sort of a very technical decision to be made sometimes Yes. you know, it's not just a matter of, um, of, you know, did this guy rip off this guy, and it's just a matter of interpreting a contract, it's sort of a matter of, um, you know, sometimes getting into very technical issues, and I wonder if, uh, if there's really, um, if the system works adequately in, in educating the jurors about, uh, whatever, um, you know, issue is under discussion. I, I don't think that they, they, they educate them enough to, to really know what's going on. In, in the case you were involved in, you said it was just sort of a bank matter of some kind. So. Yeah, the, the bank was suing them for, uh, because they went to get the, the trailer that, which was, uh, seemingly their property. Yeah.
Uh. It was on his property. Oh, so the deal was that he had, uh, borrowed money from the bank to buy it, and he hadn't made the payments. Right. So they came to get it. Yeah. And then when they came to get it, well, it was on the landlord's property and he wouldn't let them take it off. Uh, so they were suing to get it back. So, and they are, it was a double wide, so they'd already taken it apart. Uh. So they left it there Yeah. and then when they came back to get it a couple of days later it had rained and got all in it. Uh. So they were suing him for the money, and, you know, there's no way they could because it, it was the moving company, Uh, I get most of my news uh, from newspapers really.
I read the daily newspaper, uh, the HOUSTON CHRONICLE and sometimes I'll read like the, uh, WALL STREET or the NEW YORK TIMES. I don't subscribe to either, but sometimes I get a hold of copies of it. Uh, how about you? Do you, uh, mostly get things from T V or Yes. I actually get most of my news coverage off uh, computer networks. However, I do also watch television news, uh, usually in the morning once a day and I read the front page of the WALL STREET JOURNAL most every day. Oh. Oh that's interesting. You said computer networks. Uh, what, uh, what sort. I am fairly knowledgeable of Uh well, well DOW JONES for example have the, cause the uh, news wire Uh, okay. That's interesting. and it's picked up and actually available, uh, at my office, so, it's, no fee, or subscription either to read at my leisure
and it's sort of by category. For example so I can read a certain business or topics. Oh. is it, is it the A P news wire or is it something that is, uh, a little bit different from that? Well, uh, it's similar to that, but it's DOW JONES, which is, uh, the WALL STREET JOURNALS news wire. Uh, okay. So, that's that's interesting. Okay. Yeah, I've had, I had access in the past to, uh, uh, the A P news wire and I thought that was that was pretty a pretty good way to get news. Uh, I've never used the DOW JONES news wire but, uh, yeah it, uh, do you get any, uh, do you read any news magazines or anything like that for sort of like a broader, like more long term analytical sort of approach? Uh, well actually not. Uh, I do, uh, follow, uh, uh, uh,
I don't know how to how to describe it so I'll say a religious newspaper which, which talks about issues that are relevant to me in a more broad sense. It's a weekly but, uh, but not, uh, not like BUSINESS WEEK or NEWS WEEK or one of those kinds of things. Yeah I'd like to say that however, uh, that I'm overwhelmingly disappointed with the media in general except for the raw news wires In what way? In like, in sort of like, uh, uh, quality or sort of an orientation in terms of like, view point or the way the news is presented or whatever? Uh, I think that it, I think that it has to do with, uh, I personally think, uh, I, I have a problem with their viewpoint and I personally think that, uh, that there's a strong there's a strong bias in the media. Yeah. Well you won't offend me. So go ahead and say Yeah. Like a liberal type of bias. Yeah. Absolutely. Uh, after all, who, who writes. People who are journalist who are trained to write
and they're, that's a liberal, uh, a liberal field at least from academia Yeah. and, uh, the other thing that I always notice is that whenever they write about something that I'm an expert in, I find their descriptions to be wrong Yeah. Yeah. and it, They, they generally make mistake on anything technical at least That's right. Well, even if it's not technical. If it's, uh, some social thing or whatever. It doesn't matter. If I am an expert in it, they usually make mistakes which makes me believe think I'm not expert in it. They're telling me lies. Yeah. Yeah. Do you, by mistakes, do you mean just like honest mistakes or do you think they are deliberate sorts of things? Uh, I think both. Uh, by deliberate I, uh, I mean mistake, mistakes of omission or, uh, or, uh, biased toward a particular view point a particular liberal view point that they have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So, uh, uh, to give you an example, uh, we will go out of the printing media. I know of cases where, uh, we have one television media where they will show clippings from one event and describe another event but, with the the attempt to give you the impression that what they're talking about is the same thing they are showing you. Which is sort of like a deliberate bias. Which is which is rather disturbing. Huh. Huh. That's disturbing. I mean he does that. I haven't really noticed them doing that, but whatever, again I don't watch T V news that much now. If I had access to C N N, I would watch T V news more. Uh, I don't you know, but I don't usually. Yeah, I don't have access either. Although, I did at one time and it was, I did during the Gulf War and it was addictive. Yeah. Did you, did you think that C N N, well, the Gulf War coverage would be kind of, uh, an abnormality? I just I guess. I would be curious to know what you thought as to how like say C N N T V news compared to the three networks.

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