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The Quick and the Really Dead - Two Toronto October Media Events
Nuit Blanche - Yorkville gallery hires artist to body paint muscles on a living model. At Ontario Science Centre it's Body Worlds 3 exhibition strips skin and exposes muscles of dead models.
FINAL: Two Toronto media events held in early October are strangely linked by the body's muscles and vital organs. A trendy Toronto art gallery paints them on a living model, while at the Ontario Science a traveling exhibition shows bodies with their skin removed, their muscles exposed and vital organs dangling from partial removed spinal cords.
Scotiabank Nuit Blanche was held October 3rd, sunset to sunrise in downtown Toronto.
The city's fourth annual Nuit Blanche engaged audiences in a massive participatory celebration of contemporary art.
Two days prior the media was invited to attend a launch at Scotiabank's main branch for the massive art event. Reporters were given an extensive press kit which highlighted some of the more newsworthy "art" happenings that were to take place during Scotiabank Nuit Blanche. One that caught my eye was an entry about the Liss Gallery in the Yorkville Art Gallery District.
Mini-Digital Camera in hand I dropped by the gallery after midnight to watch Canada's edgiest new artist; Jonathon Ball, spray painting the bodies of a man and a woman, both who had the physique of bodybuilders.
Ball painstakingly painted the man to look like his skin had been removed and his muscles,bones and organs were exposed to the air. It was a marvelous exercise in ultra-realism x-ray art. Over the course of an hour about 100 people stopped to gawk. I was the only "media" taking pictures. The gallery was happy for the traffic and were not slighted that the press took a pass on their midnight paint-in.
Five days later I found myself attending another media event again involving exposed muscles and organs. The Ontario Science Centre held a press preview of Gunther von Hagens’ BODY WORLDS 3: THE STORY OF THE HEART. exhibition.
This is the second time that a Gunter von Hagen exhibition of sliced, diced and splayed bodies has come to Toronto's Science Centre. Three years ago the show was so popular that the building stayed open 24-hours a day, throughout the last weekend of the exhibition's run.
I attended the first exhibition and came out again to this month's press launch. It is a different show this year and received a much different response from the reporters.
Yes there are more than 200 authentic human specimens on display, including entire exposed bodies, as well as individual organs and transparent body slices. There is also a giraffe, thinly sliced from the tip of its head to its hooves, in the show.
This time the popular exhibition (it has been seen by over 26-million people) strips back the flesh and muscle and looks at the human heart to show the effects of healthy lifestyle choices.
The first time Body Worlds came to Toronto the exhibition was quite controversial(parts of the show were banned this year in Cologne). The Ontario Science Centre was accused of exhibiting desecrated bodies simply to make money. The negative comments didn't hurt the science museum, it was one of the most successful exhibitions in their 40-year history.
This time around the Ontario Science Centre went to great pains to explain that Body Worlds 2 meets the Science Centre’s mission: “To delight, inform and challenge visitors through engaging and thought-provoking experiences in science and technology.” Gunther von Hagens’surgeon wife, Dr. Angelina Whalley came from Germany to speak at the media preview lecturing that all of the bodies on display were self-donations. The willing donors, most of them German (70 Canadians have already agreed to donate their bodies) were aware that their bodies would be stripped of skin, treated in plastic and twisted into life-like poses sans flesh to entertain and educated the masses.
Judging from the reaction to the overflow media crowd (more attended this year than at the September 2005 launch), the explanations were unnecessary. The press understood what the show is all about. So did a group of students who also attended the media scrum - their questions during wrap-up Q&A were not about outrage or sacrilegious money making displays, or concerning indignities to the body, but instead were technical in nature - How Long Does It Take? Do family members know that their mothers and fathers are on display?
So the city "gets it". The media still see it as a newsworthy show. I got "it" too, and I think that it should be compulsory viewing for science student in the province to see BodyWorlds 2 (you will never smoke again after seeing an exposed smoker's lung)here in Toronto.
What has me scratching my head (with the skin still intact thank-you) is why was there no media turn-out for a living BodyWorlds style model standing in the window of a Yorkville gallery? Yet, there was a gaggle of photographers and reporters to on hand to see a display showing two skinless acrobats holding each other while their spines and vital organs are dangling out of their backs? In Yorkville the inner workings of the body were being exposed by a very talented Canadian artist working with two models who have also been sculpting their form for years. No one died to make this exhibit happen.
At Body Worlds 3, the dissection of human bodies has become a major industry encompassing body harvesting, an Asian preparation factory and an aggressive German touring exhibition company which has already presented similar Body Worlds exhibitions this year in Buffalo, Waterloo, London, Philadelphia,and Cologne. This time, Science beat Art - thumbs literally down.
CUTLINES:
Above: Dr. Angelina Whalley at the Ontario Science Centre podium
Top. Liss Gallery in Yorkville (Toronto, Ontario) hired models for Scotiabank Nuit Blanche all night art celebration. This man stood in the window for an hour being body painted by Canada's edgiest new artist; Jonathon Ball.
Middle: BodyWorlds 3 female acrobat.
Bottom: Photographers and cameramen wait for the press conference start oblivous to the skinless bodies locked in a final pas de deux. The body organs have been removed from the backs of the bodies; those are brains dangling from the exposed spines. The red barrels represent how much blood a human body pumps in one day.
Labels: body spray painted, Body Worlds 3, BodyWorlds 2, Dr. Angelina Whalley, Gunter von Hagen, Johnathan Ball, Liss Gallery, Media Preview, Nuit Blanche, Ontario Science Centre, skin stripped
The Quick and the Really Dead - Two Toronto Octobe...
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Adam Bird
Adam Bird - My Personal Blog
The life and times of a football crazy husband and father, web developer and digital evangalist. Tales of travels, childhood memories and the occasional book review. This is my blog...
From Princes Park to the Nou Camp »
From Princes Park to the Nou Camp
During my self-imposed blogging sabbatical I started writing several posts, all half-heartedly and never got around to finishing them. I had a look through to see if any were worth saving - then I came across this one. Oliver’s ninth birthday and a trip to the Nou Camp. Now a little out of date contextually, but all finally finished for the record.
I’ve long held aspirations to mix two of my favourite things; travel and football. A wannabe tourist if you like of the beautiful game. But life as a Gills fan comes with restrictions, there are no European nights against the continent's finest. The closest we are ever likely to get to any form of foreign opposition is the odd pre-season game in northern France against a local side, which is treated as nothing more than a glorified training session. But last weekend I ticked a big box off of my footballing bucket list, namely a visit to the Nou Camp stadium, home of FC Barcelona. An experience far, far removed from the previous ground that Oliver and I attended just two weeks earlier.
Oliver has been growing ever more competent in his goalkeeping, mainly in part to the work that he has been doing with Deren Ibrahim and the coaching staff at Dartford Football Club who have shown a lot of faith and encouragement in him. We felt that it would only be right and proper to show some support back, so with the Gills away in Shropshire playing against Shrewsbury we had a free footballing weekend. A perfect opportunity for me to revisit Princes Park and for Oliver to watch his coach in action against Whitehawk in the FA Trophy, a competition I'd never seen live before.
Princes Park opened in 2006, shortly before Oliver was born, reuniting the football club with the town finally after a nomadic existence on the back of the financial fallout caused by a failed groundshare with Maidstone United in the early 1990’s. With a capacity of 4,100, there was plenty of room for the 601 hardy souls who stood on the freezing cold terraces being serenaded by the non-stop chanting of the Whitehawk Ultras.
In fact, Oliver and I nearly became honorary Ultras for the day, albeit unsuspectedly. Standing behind Derens goal before the match, watching him go through his pre-match training routine Oliver and I found ourselves on an empty terrace. The opposite side of the ground was filling up quiet nicely and the Dartford colours and scarves were making themselves known. Feeling rather isolated and sticking out like two sore thumbs I felt slightly conspicuous and wondered how we were going to move into a more populated part of the ground without upsetting Oliver who was quite happy watching Deren being put through his paces.
Whilst I was slowly formulating a plan of action, we were finally joined by other members of the human race, which was a blessing as it made me feel quite normal and part of something again. But these guys were a throwback to another age. With skin-heads, tattoos and Dr Martin boots, skinny jeans and tight leather jackets I was immediately transported to The Football Factory, ID or another one of the hooligan based movies whose stereotypes were visually now alive and representing “The Hawks” right in front of me. From feeling lonely, to normal, to slightly afraid in the space of thirty seconds I had found my escape route “Oliver, we are in the away end - we are going!”
Far from the stereotypes as portrayed on screen, the Whitehawk fans were a credit to their club and the lower league game. Chanting, singing and banging their drum for the whole ninety minutes, the look of the football casual might still be alive in certain parts, but the menacing behaviour and attitude was long gone - and a firm reminder to me that one should never judge a book by its cover!
The game didn’t go according to plan, with the Darts losing 2-1 and exiting the trophy at the first hurdle. The Darts looked fairly solid in the most part without much threat in the final third, but a defensive lack of judgement from the full-back conceding a soft and rather needless penalty for handball meant that the Darts had too big a mountain to climb. However, the highlight for us and certainly for Oliver, was a spectacular second half save from Deren which had everyone in the ground clapping, including the Ultras, drumming ever louder in support behind his goal.
On the bus on the way home after the match, I asked Oliver if he had enjoyed himself. He looked up at me agreed that he had. “Barcelona up next mate”. I said, he smiled, the irony completely lost on him.
Dartford: Ibrahim, Gardiner, Onyemah, Vint, McNaughton, Noble, Hayes, E Bradbrook, T Bradbrook (Simmons 65mins), Cogan (Pugh 79mins), Harris. Subs not used: Adams, Wynter, Burns.
Whitehawk: Ross, Sessegnon, Braham-Barrett, Deering, Leacock, Lorraine (Gotta 71mins), Neilson (Stevens 79mins), Torres, Robinson, Mills, Martin (Mendy 53mins). Subs not used: Ijaha, Rose.
Childrens birthdays don’t come cheap. If you want to arrange a party there is the expense of a venue, plus food, plus entertainment, party bags, cakes and decorations. There are ways to minimise costs, but even when you add everything up alongside presents it can easily equate to hundreds of pounds. As a way to highlight comparable value, I did some research.
Looking up ticket prices to watch Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Juventus and Bayern Munich, plus adding up flight prices for two to each of those cities, I was staggered at how affordable it all was. When looking at hosting a party earlier in the year for Phoebe we had a quote for £300 for a women to arrive at the party and pretend to be a princess for two hours. Whereas Oliver and I could fly to Barcelona, watch a match and stay overnight for nearly a hundred pound less than that.
So that’s what we did.
We knew that it was only going to be a whistle-stop tour, in and out. Just as we do on Saturdays when we watch the Gills play away from home. I’ve been to all of the major cities in the UK, but I’ve not seen any of them. You arrive, watch a game and come home again.
When Dad heard what I was planning, he wanted in too. Had it just been Dad and I we could have done it the same trip for less, with an early arrival on Saturday morning and even earlier departure on Sunday we’d have not bothered with the hotel room, but gone out, got drunk and slept off any alcohol at the airport. But with Oliver in tow we needed a base to drop our heads for a couple of hours. Which gave me a logistical challenge of finding somewhere that was central, near to the underground station so that we could get to and from the airport and also to the ground as efficiently as possible. With time being a premium the perfect place looked to be an Ibis neighbouring the Sagrada Familia. If we were going to see very little whilst we were in town, we may as well see the most iconic building of them all.
In the end, it worked out perfectly. We didn’t bother with the underground from the airport, a taxi was an inexpensive option direct to the hotel where was able to see the city in the early morning light. From dropping our bags off at the Ibis, we took a short stroll around the corner via a Christmas market for a walk around Gaudi’s unfinished masterpiece. It really is quite something. Work started on its construction in 1882 and it isn’t due for completion for another ten years - mind blowing when you think about everything that has happened in the intervening years. Oliver seemed fairly impressed, or at least the selfies say so.
We brought our match tickets online from the clubs official website two weeks before (after much searching and anxiety that three seats were going to remain available!), but walking around tickets for the match vs Deportivo de La Coruña were readily available from street vendors and ticket offices around the city. If we ever go again, which I am sure that we will - I don’t think that I’ll bother with advance tickets and will get them whilst we are there, it’s what everyone else seemed to be doing, in fact I was quite taken by the frequent availability of last minute match-day tickets.
A short stone's throw away from the hotel was an FC Barcelona exhibition which we came across completely by chance. We lucked out in our discovery as it was well worth a walk around, whetting our appetite for what was about to come. Pictures of teams past, players immortalised as legends and their role in the fabric of the club. Oliver had his photograph taken with Messi in action in the background as well as Koeman, Lineker, Xavi, Iniesta, Cruyff and Ronaldinho. If Oliver was unaware of just how big Barcelona is in world footballing terms, he certainly had his eyes opened to a few new things.
Before making our way to the ground we stopped off for some lunch. It may well have been December, but the air was quite mild and we were able to sit outside in the streets dining al-fresco. We still needed our jackets on but we were more than comfortable, far removed from the temperatures of a freezing Princes Park and the smell of fried onions in the air. I knew that Oliver wouldn’t particularly fancy a series of tapas dishes so I played the safety first game and ordered him a chicken burger as you cannot possibly go wrong with a chicken burger. Or so I thought. When it arrived with a sesame seeded bun and fiery hot sauce and mustard Oliver’s first Spanish dining experience turned into a feast from his version of food hell. It didn’t get much better as the day progressed, with various levels of fussiness and turned up nostrils at perfectly edible fare that turned Dad into a grump and Oliver ever deeper into a hungry depression. Until we came across a churros stall where Oliver’s attitude changed and he devoured hungrily several donutty sticks oozing in chocolate. Spanish cuisine may well have left an indelible mark of negativity on his first real tourist experience but in time all will be forgiven, and forgotten - as the real treat of football at the Nou Camp was something to treasure.
From the underground station at the edge of the city, with townhouse style buildings obscuring any views of the stadium the first glimpse of the mighty colosseum came as we walked around a bend and it stood before us imposingly like a giant concrete carpark. From the outside, the height, whilst visibly evident lacked the architectural wow factor that much smaller stadiums can sometimes convey. The grey, industrial blandness of the underside of the tiered rows stood like inverted stairways up to the Gods, promising little but a sense of anti-climax. If you hadn’t see inside of the stadium, or photographs of the birds-eye view you’d be wondering what the fuss was about and feel sympathy with the clubs plans to spend millions of euros on bringing the ground up to date with a new, modern synthetic skin.
The stadium might well be showing its age from the outside, but entry was super-modern with tickets stored on my phone in my Wallet App, a few swipes and a flash of infra-red gained us entry into the stadium complex and the long walk up to our seats ahead. The concourses, on the outside of the building with a maze of staircases and levels dotted with retail outlets that were functional without offering anything meaningful. But once at our required level we walked through a cold concrete doorway and the vast expanse and sheer beauty of the Nou Camp await. Like the Whitehawk Ultras, the outside appearance told a contrasting story to what lay beneath and the Nou Camp stadium is undoubtedly a thing of mesmerising beauty.
Vast, wide, tall and steep, over 90,000 people sat in an oval bowl watching a collection of the finest footballing talent in the world. Dad, Oliver and I all stood silently trying to take the magnitude of the views in and soaking up the alien atmosphere as cheers, claps and Spanish chants rang out under the roofless twilight skies. With the altitude, the open air stadium in a cooling December evening left us feeling ever more chilly but the sights of Messi, Suarez and Iniesta below gave us a warm glow. Neymar was injured, so we missed an opportunity to witness the famous trinity of goalscoring talent.
But I could live with Neymars absence, it was Messi who I really wanted to see, another name added to the collection of players that I’d seen play live. I could now add Messi to Ronaldo, the two finest players of their generation. Messi scored one of his long-range trademark free kicks after 39 minutes and my weekend was complete. It was an otherwise uninteresting first half and Messi’s goal would have graced any match in any game in the world. But if Messi was the making the headlines it was Iniesta who drew my praise.
Watching Iniesta was a thing of majesty, like Paul Scholes in his pomp, Iniesta made the game look easy. He had more time than anyone else on the pitch and his movement was unhurried, strolling around the park, receiving the ball and passing with pinpoint accuracy in one movement. It was a joy to watch and the backdrop of the Nou Camp was the perfect canvas to watch a real artist at work.
Rakitic scored early in the second half and it seemed as if it was game over. But a down and dead Deportivo showed impressive fight and determination. They pulled a goal back through Perez after 77 minutes and the game came to life. A scattering of Deportivo fans at the opposite end of the stadium to us, high, high up in the Gods awoke at the same time as their team who rewarded them with a deserved equaliser after 86 minutes. The game was far from over as they attacked the Barcelona rear-guard and threatened a shock third. But it wasn’t to be. Darkness had descended over the Nou Camp and our footballing Odyssey had come to an end.
It was a unique trip and for Oliver a special experience, if only to prove a point. The Spanish food might not have agreed with him, but the football certainly did. “Daddy, after I’ve played for Gillingham and then Liverpool, I want to play for Barcelona now” he said. True to form it was my Dad who had the last word “You won’t be able to Oliver, you’ll go hungry”
Barcelona: Bravo, Dani Alves, Piqué, Mascherano, Alba (Mathieuat 77mins), Rakitic (Sergi 72mins), Busquets, Iniesta, Messi, L Suárez, Ramírez (El Haddadi 68mins). Subs not used: ter Stegen, Bartra, Adriano, Vermaelen,
Deportivo de La Coruña: Lux, Sanabria Ruiz, Arribas, da Silva Junior, Navarro Corbacho, Juanfran (Nunes Cardoso 70 mins), Bergantiños García, Fajr, Correia Pinto (Domínguez Lamasat 45mins), Rodríguez Portillo (Luis Alberto 58mins). Pérez Subs not used: Gracia Calmache, Medunjanin, Lopo, Fernández Muñiz
Labels: barcelona, dartford, days out, family, football, oliver, personal experiences, stadiums
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Research and Developement Crowdfunding Blockchain Academies
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research-and-developement
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On Saturday, 12/23/2006 At 7PM EST...
Jon Gold Fri, 12/22/2006 - 11:01pm
Jon Gold
Truth Jihad
Saturday evening, 12/23/2006 at 7pm EST, I will be on Kevin Barrett's RBN Live show called, "The Truth Jihad."
You can listen to it online live here, and they also have archives that are usually up within an hour here...
I hope some of you call up and say hi. That would be REALLY cool.
The number is (800) 313-9443.
Jon Gold's blog
For posting this.
The Time For Debate Is Over
Jon Gold on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 9:28am.
Who is the ugly guy with
Who is the ugly guy with Barrett???
Somebigguy on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 9:31am.
Can't you read?
It's this week's guest Jon Gold. Duh.
Show "A same sex couple" by JoMama2 (not verified)
A same sex couple
They sure look like they are meant for each other.
JoMama2 (not verified) on Thu, 12/28/2006 - 4:06pm.
Show "You certainly deserve each other." by Anonymous (not verified)
-17 votes
You certainly deserve each other.
How pathetic.
Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 9:42am.
Make sure you listen...
You might learn something.
Show "Will there be something like..." by Anonymous (not verified)
Will there be something like...
9/11 was an inside job?
Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 10:01am.
There will be plenty...
Of information that points in that direction I'm sure. However, I prefer the phrase, "elements of our Government were complicit" as opposed to "9/11 was an inside job."
Jon Gold on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 10:03am.
Show "Complicit = inside job. No way around it." by Anonymous (not verified)
Complicit = inside job. No way around it.
Given Barrett\'s track record and your confusion, I am confident that neither of you will yet produce any evidence for your claims. After all, it has been 5 years and nothing remotely suggesting complicity has ever been presented.
By objective standards, that is.
Actually...
com·plic·it adj.
Associated with or participating in a questionable act or a crime; having complicity: newspapers complicit with the propaganda arm of a dictatorship.
#1 You're the one that's confused.
#2 It has been 5 years, and SO MUCH information has been revealed/obtained that indicates elements of our Goverment were complicit in the attacks.
In regards to your lack of ability to process that information, I refer you to #1.
Show "Try to read carefully for once." by Anonymous (not verified)
Try to read carefully for once.
Nothing by any objective standard has ever been produced suggesting complicity.
Your beliefs, suggested anomalies, assertions, claims, and misrepresentation of factual evidence, and lies about evidence do not qualify in any way as objective standards.
Just to make tonight's show something EXTRA SPECIAL...
I've collected a few things I think will shed A LOT of light on the subject for a lot of people, and are a "debunkers" worst nightmare...
Jon Gold on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 12:00pm.
dont worry Jon, the shills are watching......
S. King said...
Notice from Jon Gold:
"Saturday evening, 12/23/2006 at 7pm EST, I will be on Kevin Barrett's RBN Live show called, "The Truth Jihad."
http://911blogger.com/node/5216
That should be entertaining.
(jesus man, they are obsessed with you over at that pisshole. funny to see ShillKing is still watching us.)
Chris on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 12:02pm.
Hahahahahaha, those jokers
Hahahahahaha, those jokers can keep on dancing for us it's great entertainment.
Dem Bruce Lee Styles on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 12:22pm.
Show "The light was all shed on you years ago. You are exposed." by Anonymous (not verified)
The light was all shed on you years ago. You are exposed.
The 9/11 Truth Movement\\\'s worst nightmare: the evidence.
DEBUNKARAMA!
Tired of dumb people who think they\\\'re geniuses telling you 9/11 was an inside job?
So am I. Here are the absolute best one-stop debunking sites on the web:
http://www.911myths.com/
http://www.debunking911.com/
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-change
It\\\'s a good bet anything you hear a Truther say about 9/11 has been debunked from here to Gotham City. Somehow, the conspiracy folks don\\\'t much visit these sites. Or they dismiss them on some flimsy pretext. A few conspiracy nuts think they\\\'ve debunked these places--but as far as I can see their debunkings are double-talk.
In my opinion, these three sites make the 9/11 Truth Movements\\\' smoking guns go up in smoke.
On the other hand...if total annihilation of all conspiracist fantasies is your goal, here is my candidate for best in-depth debunking site on the web:
Conspiracy Theories Section - at the James Randi Foundation Forum
Here\\\'s where you can go for in-depth, expert, industrial-strength debunkings of all claims by members of the 9/11 Truth Movement. Created by former professional magician James Randi, The Randi Foundation Forum is a gathering place for skeptics--especially skeptics of the paranormal. (Randi is the guy with a zillion-dollar bet that no one can perform a paranormal feat under specified conditions.)
The conspiracy section of the JREF forum hosts an international gathering of intrepid debunkers who have pretty much unravelled every conspiracy claim you can name. Most conspiraloons avoid JREF like the plague, as well they should. This jolly place is where I\\\'m hanging out these days.
http://perrylogan.org/
Good advice that scares the pants off you 9/11 Truth Kiddies
Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 12:37pm.
to anonymous
shut the hell up, you mossad/cia/isi/mi6 pieces of shi*! get a meaningful direction in life while you're at it, you f%^&in programmed lemming robot losers! karma is gonna get you very soon.
frank luchesi (not verified) on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 1:46pm.
Show "Whadda ya smokin today?" by Anonymous (not verified)
Whadda ya smokin today?
Get a life, bunky.
Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 2:52pm.
Oops.. I crapped my pants!
That list\of\sites to end all questions about 9/11... really has me running. I've got scare\shit all over my legs.
"The truth shall make you free." Why not make the truth free? We live on a priceless blue pearl, awash in a universe of fire and ice. Cut the crap.
Erin S. Myers on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 3:37pm.
Show "You sure did." by Anonymous (not verified)
You sure did.
But you crap on the truth daily, so what is the difference?
into the BATCAVE
checked all those links and finally the "bat cave" — http://perrylogan.org/ — Response, simply put: "Angle is next."
Nothing at any of those sites addresses the heart of the coup: Air Force One on the runway and airborne for over an hour with zero fighter cover (i.e. not one single fighter positioned in the air to protect it) while the nation was "under attack." And nothing at all discussing the "Angel is next" threat or the hot-line linkup with Putin.
Your co-operatives may spin the stuff on the fringes, pull quotes from any dubious source (FBI, 911 Commission, MSM, et al) and generate copious smoke for the benefit of their plethora of mirrors, but they can produce nothing to contradict the documented activities at the heart of the coup. It can't be covered up. 911 was a coup d'etat by a rogue network in service to a warmongering faction of the global olicarcy...probably your own handlers; that is unless your version of agitprop is designed to elicit even stronger arguments in support of 911Truth — in this climate, could be anything...maybe just your idea of "a good time," as in, "For a good time, email perryloganclone@yahoo.com!"
As for the bat cave: Threaten you?\!\?\!\who\d bother? You, if that's really you Perry-san, or whoever you really are, already have to live with yourself — what could be worse? And don't say, "living with you" — debunked by default: my wife loves it...and yours? Oh yeah, that would be genuinely incredible\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\for a good time, one more stroke and that Brittany Spears cheesecake gets you through the night.
blog dog (not verified) on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 12:34am.
Anonymous said: "Your
"Your beliefs, suggested anomalies, assertions, claims, and misrepresentation of factual evidence, and lies about evidence do not qualify in any way as objective standards."
You must be talking about the government's story.
Objectivity goes both ways. It is not objective to assume a priori that our government would never kill its own citizens, and to assume that the government's story is a truth that has to be rebutted.
Of course, if the government's story made any sense, I would be less suspicious. That it does not make sense, and that there has been no investigation at all, raises my suspicions greatly.
Ningen (not verified) on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 5:57pm.
Do you have evidence that the official story is correct?
"Given Barrett\'s track record and your confusion, I am confident that neither of you will yet produce any evidence for your claims. After all, it has been 5 years and nothing remotely suggesting complicity has ever been presented."
Hey you-that-can't-come-up-with-a-name....
It's been five years and nothing remotely near a "full and complete accounting" of the official theories has been forthcoming.
You would think that the event that has been at the core of virtually everything that the current residents of the white house have done would be fully explained by now....
Oh.... I know they are TRIED to provide evidence but when we find out about all the ommissions of the 911 commission and find out that the the commissioners KNEW the pentagon was lying to them about the events of 911, it tends to give me pause....
Do YOU really believe the official story?
If you have evidence that proves the official conspiracy theories, then lets see it!
All aspects of the truth are consistent
solar roller on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 12:19pm.
The event of 9/11 impacted us SO MUCH...
We've even got a period of time named after it...
"The Post-9/11 World."
And we're not supposed to question that world changing event, and those that lied to us about it?
GIVE ME A _______ BREAK!
Jon Gold on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 1:01pm.
Show "I gave you a break, in fact many breaks." by Anonymous (not verified)
I gave you a break, in fact many breaks.
But you continue to lie about 9/11, Jon Gold. And now you\'ll join another liar tonight.
Angel is next
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ no hiding \\\\\\\\\\ Angel is next \\\\\\\\\\\ keep stroking \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
blog dog (not verified) on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 3:10pm.
Since this is all baseless garbage, why are you wasting your time and energy posting here? We are all just a bunch of nutty conspiracy theorists...right? Possibly you are threatened by what is being discussed here. It seems to concern you.
P.S. Say hi to the guys at the "office".......traitor.
intheyearzero (not verified) on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 2:26pm.
Show "Pay attention." by Anonymous (not verified)
I like going to the circus. There are many clowns here.
Either you are threatened by what is being discussed here.....
......or you are being paid to post here. You don't even attempt to debate the issues, you only hurl chilldish insults. That is all you can do?
Show "You must be a newbie." by Anonymous (not verified)
You must be a newbie.
Debate does not take place here. It never has, it never will.
Assertions are made without evidence. Anyone who points out the assertions need evidence to back them up is a disinfo agent not adhering to The Party Line.
Some of us try to wake them up to the real world of truth. You will soon understand that truth is a hate word here.
Get used to reality and truth being turned upside down on 911Blogger.com.
Yes, it IS bizarre.
So perhaps YOU can answer my
So perhaps YOU can answer my question anonymous-person- I -do-not-know:
Where in the NIST report does it explain the mechanism for simultaneous, systematic, total structural failure that resulted in the near free fall collapse of WTC1, 2 & 3? Please include the exact page numbers in your response and a link.
I eagerly await my awakening to the "real world of truth".
olduser_01 on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 1:56am.
Show "Begging the Question" by Anonymous (not verified)
Look up the meaning, you poor fool.
The look up and learn the definition of progressive collapse, already explained to you here.
God, you 9/11 Truth Kiddies are dumb.
Anonymous (not verified) on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 8:09am.
The question specifies
The question specifies "WHERE IN THE NIST REPORT"--not general info from bleeding Encyclopdia Britanica, et al.
WHERE IN THE NIST REPORT--please.
Thank you, "Ern-", I mean, anonymous-person-I-do-not-know.
olduser_01 on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 3:14pm.
Show "Try again. Pay attention this time." by Anonymous (not verified)
Try again. Pay attention this time.
You are begging the question. Look up the definition.
Then read the NIST Report.
WTC 1:
Once the upper building section began to move downwards, the weakened structure in the impact and fire zone was not able to absorb the tremendous energy of the falling building section and global collapse ensued.
- NIST NCSTAR 1, WTC Investigation, p. 145
The downward movement of this structural block was more than the damaged structure could resist, and the global collapse began.
Then ook up and learn the definition of progressive collapse, already explained to you here.
Perhaps, if you pay attention, you won\'t make a fool of yourself yet again, bubba Jenny with foot firmly stick in mouth.
Anonymous (not verified) on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 4:42pm.
"You are begging the
"You are begging the question. Look up the definition."
It is NIST's job to provide all relevant definitions in its report as most people reading it are not experts in the relevant feilds. So are you saying NIST believes it was a progressive collapse? If so, WHERE IN THE NIST REPORT do they state this mechanism then explain this mechanism?
BTW "global collapse" is an environmental/ economic term, hence being misused in this context. Are you suggesting that NIST meant "structural collapse" when they said "global collapse"? If so, please provide a link where this is clairfied.
Show "Try to pay attention." by Anonymous (not verified)
Try to pay attention.
It is dishonest for you to continue to beg the question.
Now, read what NIST says.
Good. Now what does NIST say? What does the article I linked to say? Do you mean to tell me that as a 9/11 Truther you have not even bothered to learn what is in the NIST Report?
Need some more help? Here:
http://www.implosionworld.com/wtc.htm
Now, what do they all say in common?
C\'mon, bubba Jenny, quit begging the question, dodging and try to muster up some integrity.
WHERE in the NIST report do
WHERE in the NIST report do they explain the mechanism for the near free fall collapse of WTC1, 2 &3 as progressive collapse?
Because right now, you are saying the NIST report DOES NOT explain a mechanism for the collapse, progressive or otherwise--in which instance the NIST report is flawed. If the NIST report can't stand alone, then it CANNOT be used by debunkers as a Bible of the official story.
BTW--the link you gave is garbage--it just leads back to 911Blogger.
Now go back to your "totally awsome journal", 911Debunker.
No, you know perfectly well.
That NIST and everyone else says exactly the same thing. And you think you can evade it by begging the question? Are you that nuts?
Let\'s try again, bubba, shall we?
\"Local failure of one structural element may result in the failure of another structural element. Failure might thus progress throughout a major part or even all of the structure.
After reviewing a couple of failure events, it is outlined why current probability based design codes are inadequate to prevent progressive collapse. It is discussed how these shortcomings might be overcome both within and outside a probabilistic framework. A pragmatic approach is suggested in which design according to current
practice is complemented by additional design measures with particular regard to collapse resistance.\"
\"Progressive collapse has played a role in such catastrophic events as the collapse of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, Oklahoma City, 1995 and the World Trade
Center towers, New York, 2001, but in a large number of less dramatic failures as well. Some failures out of recent years are described in [2], ranging from Ronan Point, a multi-story building in London, 1968, to the Sampoong Superstore, a department store in Seoul, 1995. Progressive collapse as partial cause is evident throughout the described failure events.\"
\"In terms of tragedy and losses the above mentioned cases of failure were far exceeded by the collapse on September 11th, 2001 of the twin towers of the World Trade Center.
The impact of the airplane and the subsequent fire initiated local failures in the area of impact. The ensuing loss in vertical bearing capacity was limited to a few stories but extended over the complete cross section of the respective tower [9, 10]. The upper part of the structure started to move downwards and accumulated kinetic energy. The subsequent collision with the lower part of the structure, which was still intact, caused enormous impact forces which were far beyond the reserve capacities of the structure. This, in turn, led to the complete loss of vertical bearing capacity in the area of the impact. Failure progressed in this manner and led to a total collapse.\"
\"Eventually, the integrity of these tubes was compromised to the point where they buckled under the weight of the higher floors, causing a gravitational chain reaction that continued until all of the floors were at ground level.\"
http://www.sh.tu-harburg.de/starossek/Veroeffentlichungen/Dateien/Uwe%20...
Now, bubba Jenny, do you want to continue with your crusade or will you finally admit that you begging the question and avoiding what we all know is just making you the laughing stock in the Real World and killing your \"movement?\"
Anonymous (not verified) on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 10:42pm.
But I asked what was in the
But I asked what was in the NIST report; all this extra information may be relevant, BUT IT ISN'T IN THE NIST REPORT.(Or so it appears as there are no page numbers after the first two items which are from NIST) These links are not part of the NIST report--so they are irreleveant to my question which was clearly about the NIST report. You answers should ONLY reference the NIST report because it is the integrity of the NIST report that is in question.
So you have confirmed the NIST report DOES NOT explain the mechanism of collapse. Thank you, anonymous-person-I do-not-know.
"Bugger this; I want a better world."
olduser_01 on Mon, 12/25/2006 - 4:05am.
Yes, The NIST report is crystal clear. Don\'t be a fool, Jenny.
As is every other report I posted supporting NIST.
You are just making a fool of yourself pretending not to know it does and begging the question.
As I always say, one can never underestimate the intelligence of you 9/11 Truth Kiddies.
Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 12/25/2006 - 9:43am.
Sorry you can't read.....
Your new nickname is "Cognitive Dissonance". Do you like it?
intheyearzero (not verified) on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 5:56am.
One has to wonder
What all you bozos did during school hours.
anybody know anything about
anybody know anything about an upcoming book by Barrett called "Truth Jihad"? he told me a couple of months ago to be on the lookout for it but i havent heard anything since then.
Chris on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 10:08am.
Show "Truth Jihad" by Anonymous (not verified)
That is a first, admitting that there is a Jihad against the truth.
You 9/11 Truth Kiddies are really over the top.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ no hiding \\\\\\\\\\ Angel is next \\\\\\\\\\\ arm getting tired? \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
MEDIA WHORE!!!
just kidding Jon.... go kick some butt
JJJames (not verified) on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 10:27am.
Will...
For all your efforts
Thanks Jon,and be sure to tell Kevin thanks too from all of us here.
WISDOM on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 10:45am.
Jon Gold interview.
I am listening to the interview right now and Jon is doing a fine job. He just mentioned this web site and all the trolls who come here and cause trouble. I think it is a great idea to have everyone log-in. No more of this anonymous crap. If a troll wants to post, fine with me but put up your e-mail address and IP number. Stop hiding behind your mouse and keyboard. I also liked Jon mentioning the time when Gypsy blew the whistle on 9/11 commission thugs. Gypsy was born in Russia and later moved to the States. She is more of a true American than most of the natural born ones. Joe six-pack should hang his head in shame.
maddog on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 9:06pm.
That's one of my favorite videos.
Gypsy Video
That is my favorite video also. I still watch it. Her, Carol and Janette are my favorite people in our group. It took a lot of courage to do what she did. I am not sure I could have done it myself. I would have been shaking in my boots. Those woman are true patriots. We men can learn a lot from them. I have always maintained that women like Gypsy will win this thing for us.
maddog on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 10:39am.
Good luck man!
yo, john
don't forget the dancing israelis found with explosives residue in their van, the fake art students at the wtc, the fake moving company, the dual israel-us citizenship for many involved with pnac and homeland security, the depleted uranium constantly used by our troops and israel's, the aipac whores, the same people who control the media also own the weapons defense industry aka mic, no-bid gov't contracts to those same people, on and on and on. it's not so hard to figure out, people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
isi/cia/mossad/mi6/kroll (not verified) on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 1:57pm.
Show "Too bad that RBN is also the" by Anonymous (not verified)
Too bad that RBN is also the
Too bad that RBN is also the host to people like grand master klansman DAVID DUKE, featured as a guest on the RBN shows of Michael Collins Piper. Here's a recent show description. I'll break it up a little to parse easier . . .
Tue., December 19, 2006: Playlists: M3U | RAM (Individual MP3: Click Here )
The special guest on the December 19 broadcast by Michael Collins Piper of his nightly call-in talk forum on the Republic Broadcasting Network (see the archives at rbnlive.com) was none other than former Louisiana State Rep. David Duke, who is, beyond any question, one of the most "controversial" public figures in the United States today. Piper and Duke were among the wide-ranging group of speakers at the recent international conference on the Holocaust convened in Tehran, Iran by Iranian President Ahmadenijad, and Duke joined Piper on rbnlive.com to discuss what really happened at the conference and to correct much of the misinformation and disinformation about the conference that has been conveyed in the print and broadcast mass media in the United States.
Duke himself was the subject of particularly distorted coverage in English-language reports about the conference, but he had several opportunities, via interviews with media manipulators such as Wolf Blitzer, among others, to get out the truth,
the heavy-handed hate-mongering and lying by Zionist elements notwithstanding.
Duke's website, davidduke.com, received some 15,000 emails from around the world and about 80% of those emails were favorable, a direct consequence of audiences seeing through the mass media lies and responding favorably to Duke's articulate refutations of the media disinformation.
In his book JEWISH SUPREMACISM ( which has been translated into some 14 languages), Duke has directly challenged the power of the Zionist elite and outlined the history of Zionist intrigue in well-written and carefully-documented fashion.
http://mp3.rbnlive.com/Piper06.html
scroll on for many more holocaust revisionist shows.
RBN is very deeply involved in the efforts of the white supremacists to demonize Jews and non-whites. I don't support Zionism, but I also don't support white supremacism and racist hate speech, which is what David Duke, Michael Collins Piper, Barnes Review, etc are all about. The Barnes Review nominated Hitler for a Nobel Peace Prize.
People will say, "well so what, we can't help what they're doing on OTHER shows on RBN." But you can also walk away from it and find someplace else. Reaching out to the Right and the Libertarians doesn't mean you have to support an openly racist venture such as this. All activists should reject venues featuring racist White Supremacists. Type "David Duke radio" into google and listen for a little while., or check out his website so you can understand. These are the people saying non-Europeans are bad, blacks and whites can't date, non-whites can't come across the Amurican borders, etc.
It's sad to see people ignore this issue. I hope those of you who understand this stuff can speak out on here.
There are other ways to reach out.
Ben Hannity Chertoff is here ,again
Wow , more espousing comments on how you are the grand know all truth master? as usual?...Ho Hum..Not!
Way to go Jon, give Kevin My thanks if you could..and Chertoff you can listen in also....Oh I know, you will be...by the way why don't you check out Counterpunch March 9th article from Sam Karmilowicz. It's a good measure to read an article like this in their publication and refer to us as nutty conspirationalists.
Shows inconsistency on their part.
Mike Anti-Neo-Con on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 12:48am.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ no hiding \\\\\\\\\\ Angel is next \\\\\\\\\\\ keep stroking \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ its getting soft \\\\\\\\\\\\\\ arms going numb \\\\\\\\\\\\\\
10 Minutes...
well i'm listening sounds
well i'm listening sounds good guys
ryangpoker on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 8:11pm.
I'd just like to say
that I haven't been that nervous and thus dorky-sounding since I confronted Sen. John Thune at my cousin's wedding in South Dakota. Really. I'm usually quite a smooth talker.
casseia on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 8:03pm.
You did great.
That's nice of you to say.
Show "Japanese did 911!" by concrete man (not verified)
Japanese did 911!
Who controls the 911 truth movement? The Japanese ???
http://www.iamthewitness.com/video/FrenchConnection_2.wmv
concrete man (not verified) on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 8:56pm.
It is over. Alarming 9/11 claim is found baseless.
New report rips Curt Weldon and 9/11 Truth Movement
Alarming 9/11 claim is found baseless
A military analysts\' chart did not identify hijackers
beforehand, senators report.
By Greg Miller, Times Staff Writer
WASHINGTON — The Senate Intelligence Committee has rejected as untrue one of the most disturbing claims about the Sept. 11 terrorist strikes — a congressman\'s contention that a team of military analysts identified Mohamed Atta or other hijackers before the attacks — according to a summary of the panel\'s investigation obtained by The Times.
The conclusion contradicts assertions by Rep. Curt Weldon (R-Pa.) and a few military officers that U.S. national security officials ignored startling intelligence available in early 2001 that might have helped to prevent the attacks.
In particular, Weldon and other officials have repeatedly claimed that the military analysts\' effort, known as Able Danger, produced a chart that included a picture of Atta and identified him as being tied to an Al Qaeda cell in Brooklyn, N.Y. Weldon has also said that the chart was shared with White House officials, including Stephen J. Hadley, then deputy national security advisor.
But after a 16-month investigation, the Intelligence Committee has concluded that those assertions are unfounded.
\"Able Danger did not identify Mohammed Atta or any other 9/11 hijacker at any time prior to Sept. 11, 2001,\" the committee determined, according to an eight-page letter sent last week to panel members by the top Republican and Democrat on the committee.
Weldon, the focus of an unrelated Justice Department corruption probe, was defeated last month in his campaign for an 11th term in a suburban Philadelphia district that has a large GOP majority in voter registration. Attempts were unsuccessful Sunday to reach a Weldon spokesman and an attorney representing Weldon in the Justice Department investigation.
The Senate panel began investigating Able Danger in August 2005, after Weldon and people close to the program went public with their claims. At the time, Weldon was the vice chairman of the House Armed Services Committee and the House Homeland Security Committee.
The recently completed probe also dismissed other assertions that have fueled conspiracy theories surrounding the Sept. 11 attacks.
The panel said it found \"no evidence\" to support claims by military officers connected to Able Danger that Defense Department lawyers prevented the team\'s analysts from sharing their findings with FBI counter-terrorism officials before the attacks.
Nor was the alleged chart or any information developed by Able Danger improperly destroyed at the direction of Pentagon lawyers, the panel concluded — a charge that had stoked claims of a cover-up.
Though the committee concluded that claims about Able Danger were unfounded, two of the hijackers were known to the U.S. intelligence community before the Sept. 11 attacks. The two had been observed by the CIA attending a meeting with Al Qaeda operatives in Malaysia, but that information was not shared with other agencies in time to locate them after they had entered the United States and moved to San Diego.
Able Danger was the unclassified name given to a program launched in 1999 by the U.S. Special Operations Command as part of an effort to develop military plans targeting the leadership ranks of Al Qaeda and other terrorist networks.
Military analysts assigned to the effort did create charts with pictures of Al Qaeda operatives whose identities were known publicly at the time, the committee found. But the committee concluded that none of those charts depicted Atta, and that the claims of Weldon and others may have been caused by confusion.
One of the charts, titled \"The Al Qaeda Network: Snapshots of Typical Operational Cells Associated With UBL [Usama bin Laden],\" was attached to the letter sent to committee members last week by Sens. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.) and John D. \"Jay\" Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), the panel\'s leaders.
\"One of these individuals depicted on the chart arguably looked like Mohammed Atta,\" the committee concluded. \"In addition, the chart contained names of Al Qaeda associates that sound like Atta, as well as numerous variations of the common Arab name Mohammed.\"
The committee also suggested that officials\' memories may have been clouded by the flurry of charts and photographs of Atta that surfaced after the attacks. The panel noted that a defense contractor that produced the chart at the center of the controversy subsequently created a follow-up chart, after the attacks, that did include Atta.
Atta, an Egyptian-born Islamic radical, was the ringleader of the Sept. 11 attacks and pilot of one of the planes that struck the World Trade Center.
In June 2005, Weldon generated controversy when he declared in a speech on the House floor and in a book released that month that he had met with Hadley at the White House shortly after the attacks and had given the national security official a copy of a chart showing that Atta had been identified by Able Danger.
But the committee concluded that the chart \"was not a pre-9/11 chart\" and that \"at no time did Mr. Hadley ever see a chart with pre-9/11 data bearing Atta\'s picture or name as described by Congressman Weldon.\"
The Senate Intelligence Committee noted in its report that its findings were consistent with those of a similar investigation of Able Danger by the Defense Department inspector general\'s office, released in September.
Weldon has relished the role of calling attention to national security threats he believes are being ignored by others in government. At times he has carried around a replica of a suitcase-size nuclear bomb to highlight terrorist nuclear dangers. He has also accused Iran of hiding Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.
Weldon\'s rising legal troubles played a role in his reelection loss last month. It was disclosed last week that a federal grand jury had subpoenaed congressional records from Weldon\'s office as part of an FBI probe aimed at determining whether he traded his influence to get lobbying business for his daughter Karen and others.
The House seat was won by Democrat Joe Sestak, a retired Navy vice admiral.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-intel25dec25,0,3149...
Is there no mention of the 2.5 terabytes of information that was destroyed, or the fact that Dietrich Schnell was prohibited from testifying at Weldon's hearings, or the treatment that Lt. Col. Tony Shaffer received, and can we please see the chart in question?
Jon Gold on Mon, 12/25/2006 - 11:05am.
Never any answers from you.
You were funny on Barrett\'s Sick and Demented Hour, Jon. Not a single piece of evidence from either one of you.
Lot\'s of cover-ups, you claim, but you still refuse to demonstrate anything that would remotely lead one to conclude that elements of the government were complicit in pulling off 9/11.
One has to wonder when you will come out from hiding and provide some answers. Given your historical performance, all you can do is argue from innuendo.
If you only had a clue........
Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 11:31am.
Too bad you bought into the nonsense of 9/11 Truthies.
It is unfortunate that you never learned how to think rationally and critically.
what?!?!?! first, why was
what?!?!?! first, why was Sen. Thune at your cousins wedding? second, what exactly did you confront him about? third, good for you! Sen. Thune is a jackass.
Chris on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 3:48pm.
Cause she's a big S. Dakota mucketymuck
as is her new husband. But believe me, I was completely shocked when I realized he was there. Anyway, I angled for a little face time with him, introduced him to my daughter who is extremely cute (playing the cute daughter card), and then told him that more and more Americans aren't satisfied with the Commission Report and that that kind of doubt about our great government is bad for our great nation. He did a great job of simulating concerned attention, sustained eye contact, and so forth, and thanked me for bringing the matter to his attention. Then I went in the bathroom and barfed up my piece of cake. (Not really.)
casseia on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 8:12pm.
haha, great job. did he have
haha, great job. did he have anything at all of substance to say about your concerns with the Commission? or just the usual canned answers? personally i would have barfed, ive seen Thune speak on C-Span and stuff and hes the epitome of "politician". glad to see his white house hopes have dried up.
Chris on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 11:46pm.
To everyone that participated, and to everyone that listened.
Sorry I forgot to say hi from 911Blogger.com...
do you still think flight 77
do you still think flight 77 flew into the pentagon, master truther?
Why do you refer to me as...
"master truther?"
Show "because your good Jon, now" by Anonymous (not verified)
because your good Jon, now
because your good Jon, now answer my question
Anonymous (not verified) on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 12:00am.
Answer this!
Screw you, you evil bastard!
btw way to go Jon.
Daricus on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 12:05am.
Excellent show!
Kevin does a really impressive job of keeping the show rolling... very easy to listen to.
Jon... You gave us at blogger plenty of props!
The fact that you reccomend this site as a place for people to go to seek information from intelligent and informed people is very telling of your respect for us all..... well not all of us... "Anony"
Going to try and make it to Phoenix..... Would give me some inspiration to finish many of research papers on the subject.
JJJames (not verified) on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 9:13pm.
The time flew by.
Show "The Tale of Two Holocaust Tales" by Concrete man (not verified)
The Tale of Two Holocaust Tales
The Zionist Holocaust Story is a Hoax
[The Tale of Two Holocaust Tales]
By Patrick H. McNally
The most interesting confrontation at the recent Teheran International Conference on the Holocaust was the shocking differences between two diametrically opposed Jewish Holocaust narratives. Six Nerutei Karta rabbis from England, Austria, and the USA attended the Conference to present the views of their rabbinate. Their prophecy-based holocaust narrative is light-years away from the hatemongering profiteering libels, lies, and slanders peddled by their Zionist co-tribalists.
All these rabbis would be immediately arrested for doubting the existence of homicidal gas chambers if they were to set foot in France. Recently a tenured French university professor, Bruno Gollisch, got suspended for five years for merely suggesting that the gas chambers could be discussed. The relevant French law is called the Fabulous-Gas Act. So it turns out that these rabbis are unquestionably full throttle, belch fire revisionists and opponents of the Zionist Holocaust hoax.
The differences between the rabbis` prophecy-based holocaust narrative and the Zionists` profit-seeking Hoaxoco$t lie are so great that the one word "holocaust" should not be applied to these totally opposed narratives. The differences between the rabbinical religious narrative and secular Zionist blood libel do not just relate to the uses, misuses, and abuses of the Holocaust stories. Of course, the rabbis correctly see the core abuse of the Zionist hoax as the indispensable excuse to create the Zionist JewState [of Jews, by Jews, and for Jews] and the chief alibi to justify any and all crimes of elite Jewry inside and outside of Palestine.
Quite apart from the Zionist abuses of their own very different hoaxoco$t fairy tale, the central elements of the two narratives differ in the following ways:
1. The Zionists say that Hitler was the chief culprit, most responsible villain, and the main efficient cause. Recently when it turned out that nobody could find any documents whatsoever tracing responsibility to Hitler, the hoaxoco$ters had to revise their Hitler-lie. When Hitler could not be blamed, Daniel Goldhagen, Harvard`s heavyweight Holyhoax hatemonger, stepped into the breach to blame all the Germans whom he smeared as "Hitler`s willing executioners." However, Goldhagen himself is simply one of Alley the Weasel`s willing liars. The holyhoaxers really belong to the revision-of-the-month club as they are always changing their story under pressure from real researchers who then get smeared as "deniers."
At any rate, for the Nerutei Karta Orthodox rabbis, Hitler is not the efficient cause but only one among many instrumental causes. Another important instrumental cause for the rabbis is the Zionists who actively cooperated with Hitler to deport the Jews out of Europe. The Zionists wanted young and healthy Jewish cannon fodder to sic on against the native Palestinians and elderly Jews to serve as victims to promote post-war Zionist demands for the founding of their new JewState [of Jews, by Jews, and for Jews]. The Zionists are always the ultimate Volksverhetzer [inciters of hatred of other peoples].
2. The Zionists are wedded to the preposterous nonsense of the homicidal gas chambers. They have been jibbering and jabbering away too many decades to be able to gracefully and surreptiously jettison the gas chamber fiction from their SS Holocaust. The Goldhagen ruse of shifting the blame onto roving death squads of rabies-infected killer Krauts never got off the ground because his poison gas filled trial ballon immediately got shot full of holes.
The Orthodox Rabbis could not care less about the homicidal gas chamber bologna. Their Chief Rabbi from England said, "What difference does it make if Jews died in gas chambers or from starving?" In Europe the Rabbi could not make such a statement without being arrested by Zionist holyhoaxotoxifiers and tarred and feathered by the jewsnews
3. The zio-holyhoaxers are dogmatically committed to the “into the valley of gas chambers marched the 6,000,000” myth and to their unique branch of mathematics known as “holocaust arithmetic” in which [6,000,000 – 3,000,000 = 6,000,000].
These Orthodox rabbis have a religious, metaphysical, and spiritual understanding of the Jewish deaths during World War II. They seem to contemptuously dismiss any and all bogus Zionist bean counting.
4. The zio-greed heads and hoaxoco$ters are very interested in money, money, and more money. Their shameless machinations have been hilariously documented in Norman Finkelsteins`s indispensable “The Holocaust Industry.” The way zio-holyhoaxers have milked their cash cow should be written up as a Harvard Business School case.
The Orthodox rabbis not only do not demand money but will not ACCEPT any money for the deaths of their brethren in East Europe during the war which their Zionist co-tribalists played a big role in starting and promoting.
5. The zio-holocaustomaniacs have so successfully marketed their complaints that Edgar Man of Steel coined the phrase, “New Whine in Old Bottles.” Their bogus bull manure has replaced the Crucifixion of Christ as the central redemptive suffering in all of human history. Their marketing campaign has created the Church of the Holocaust as a new slave cult of watered down Jewdayism for cattle goyim and secular Jews. But the zio-hoaxocoughers supreme triumph has to have been the UN inauguration of an annual International Holocaust Day on January 27. According to Israel Shamir, Israel has only fulfilled one UN resolution: the one that condemned Zionism as a racism. However, it could be objected that Zionism actually never attained the relatively high moral level of a racism and remained on the primitive level of a mere tribalism.
However the rabbis have no interest in shoving their Holocaust narrative down peoples` throats by using a Jewish Neo-Inquisition to prosecute, persecute, and pursue octogenarians and nonagenarians all over the face of the earth and even into villages and hamlets in South America, suburbs in the USA, and small towns in Europe. In fact, one rabbi stated that his group does not participate in Jewry-wide and secular celebrations but only commemorates the disappearance of their own particular community in Eastern Europe.
6. The Zionist hoaxoco$t is not only a shameless shakedown and extortion racket but is an accusation of premeditated murder. Let us not use that phony and already worn out neologism, “genocide,” which was coined by a zio-propagandist working on wartime black propaganda in Washington, D.C. in the early 1940s. The Zionists are not content with saying that Jews died or were killed. Their quasi-official definition includes the essentially different word, “murdered.” If someone dies or is killed, it can be a natural or accidental happening with nobody being guilty. Murder always involves guilt and the guilty party must pay some compensation. Enter the hapless Germans and the most to be pitied Palestinians as the first and most obvious victims of world history`s filthiest blood libel, the hoaxocough. But the holyhoax is not only the BIGGEST of big lies but the mother of many other lies, e.g. the 9-11 Lie foisted on a brain dead American public with no knowledge of high school chemistry or physics. The 9-11 Lie in turn led to the made-by-Jews WMD lie and the depleted uranium nuclear poisoning and massacre of the Iraqi people.
Perhaps Asia has not yet been severely affected by the hoaxoco$t lie, but the entire post-Christian world has been brain poisoned and the Muslim world literally poisoned, savagely attacked, and threatened by it. The next poisonous fruit of the zio-hoaxocough might well be an attack on Iran for….well, for what else, but holocaust denial. After all, the Islamic Republic of Iran did invite in the Nerutei Karta rabbis and gave them a hearty welcome and a forum where they could present their views. In Iran the rabbis got more press coverage and TV time than they have been given in over 50 years in the “democratic and open free world.”
In the 1940s and 50s people used to say right that 55,000,000 humans died in World War II including a few million Jews. Now the holocaustofried say that 6,000,000 Jews were murdered in a Holocaust along with a few million simple unchosen humans. Please! Let us all move onto solving some really important pan-human problems!
Show's Up...
Good to speak with you and Kevin,
time flies when you're truthing!
I look forward to seeing you in AZ in February.
I hope that you and yours are well.
LeftWright on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 10:55pm.
Thanks for calling up!
And thanks for the signs you make.
Jon, thank you for the
Jon, thank you for the links.
Jason on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 3:47pm.
Show "Jon, do you support these statements by Barrett?" by Mark Roberts
Jon, do you support these statements by Barrett?
I find it interesting that the first words on Kevin Barrett's website, MUJCA.com, are "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
Yet despite being asked repeatedly, Barrett refuses to correct his egregious and deliberate misquoting of – and lies about – Larry Silverstein.
Barrett says Silverstein is:
A mass murderer.
A traitor.
An insurance fraudster.
When I asked Barrett to present evidence of these alleged crimes, all he could say is that I was a traitor who would be joining Silverstein on the gallows, and that he was saving my emails to be used as evidence at my trial.
Barrett continues to preach the importance of honesty, while spreading lies and hatred against a man who has done nothing wrong. I asked him if he really wants to live in a world in which baseless accusations are acceptable as evidence of a crime. He didn't reply.
When he's politely asked to correct his deliberate errors, he refuses.
He says his critics are traitors who will be executed.
Are Barrett's actions those of a stable, rational person?
So what's going on here, people? Why do you support this fraud and hypocrite, with his violent, unhinged fantasies?
I'm genuinely interested to know.
Mark Roberts on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 5:55am.
Mark Roberts,
obviously i can't answer your question, but, whilest youre 'in reach', i was wondering if you did some work (yet) on 'debunking' '911 press for truth'. I'd be interested to read your take on that...
em7 on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 7:43am.
Good angle! Noticed how
Good angle! Noticed how he's ignored you...
olduser_01 on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 4:00pm.
Show "That is the $64,000 question." by Anonymous (not verified)
That is the $64,000 question.
Do not expect a rational answer from Jon or anyone else here.
Well Mark...
I'd be interested to see the emails. For 3 reasons.
#1. I don't trust you.
And please answer this question.
Is the United States Government perpetrating a cover-up in regards to the attacks of 9/11?
Jon Gold on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 9:19am.
And Mark...
If elements of our Government were complicit in the attacks of 9/11, and you're actively helping them get away with that crime... what does that make you?
Show "Jon, you can read my emails" by Mark Roberts
Jon, you can read my emails
Jon, you can read my emails to Barrett and a summary of his replies here: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=71003
If you'll email me at nyctours@gmail.com, I'll forward Barrett's replies to you. As my summary indicates, they are brief.
To answer your question, I have seen no evidence of LIHOP, MIHOP, or of a US government coverup of the cause of the 9/11 attacks.
I'll be glad to review any evidence you have that I"m a traitor.
Mark Roberts on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 10:02pm.
It doesn't matter if it's a lowly anonymous minion, or the leader himself. None of you "debunkers" have the ability to recognize a yes or no question if it jumped up and bit you in the ass.
I didn't ask you if they let it happen on purpose. I didn't ask you if they made it happen on purpose. Finally, I didn't ask you if the U.S. Government is covering up the cause of the 9/11 attacks.
I'll ask again.
Is the United States Government perpetrating a cover-up in regards to the attacks of 9/11? Period. Yes or no.
It's amazing how you have to frame everything according to the "talking points" you're most comfortable talking about.
As for evidence that you're a traitor. You actively oppose the 9/11 Truth Movement. The one "organization" that has always actively tried to help the first responders of 9/11. The heroes of 9/11. The people that are sick and dying as a result of the 9/11 environmental disaster.
I don't need much more than that.
From John Feal, First Responder...
First I like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas. I believe today of all days we should be praying for those lost and those still suffering from 9/11 and its after math. I want to thank Jon Gold, and others for their continued and dedicated efforts on 9/11 issues. And to all individuals, organizations, groups, media, elected officials, etc... I have been advocating, and a prominent member in the 9/11 circle long enough to know that if you oppose the 9/11 truth movement, then you oppose the truth, and you oppose the answers we deserve, and you oppose how government is suppose to work for us. Responders, survivors, family members embrace the fact that this movement simply wants the truth, hence the name, "9/11 truth movement". 9/11 and it's aftermath have created so many issues, from government corruption, betrayal, denial, human suffering, financial hard ship, and believe me I can go on, but what is important is that everyone involved in any 9/11 group or organization is entitled to the truth of that day or the days leading up to it. How many more people have to still die, and how many more Christmas's must be spent in pain for us when all these people are trying to do is ask questions that many of you are afraid of. Shame on anyone who opposes the "TRUTH", and Merry Christmas to everyone that embraces the fact that 9/11 will be apart of every Christmas for us, the 9/11 responders, forever, or until we die from 9/11 exposure. God bless you all that are trying to make a difference.
9/11 responder/advocate
FealGood Foundation
Show "Jon, you said you didn't trust me" by Mark Roberts
Jon, you said you didn't trust me
I gave you my email address so I could share those Kevin Barrett emails with you. You know, the ones you don't think exist.
Haven't heard back from you. Are you interested in the truth, or not?
And you'll need to back up your claim that I've done something to harm first responders in any way. You're not a liar like Barrett, are you? Throwing around baseless accusations? I think you're more of a man than that.
Then produce your evidence or retract your claim. That's what adults do.
And so you know, there are many organizations that have helped and continue to help the first responders of 9/11 and their families. I know that because I've given them a lot of money. You should look into it, Jon.
Mark Roberts on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 12:09am.
I didn't say I thought they didn't exist. I said I'd like to see them because I don't trust you.
I didn't say you "harmed first responders."
I said , "You actively oppose the 9/11 Truth Movement. The one "organization" that has always actively tried to help the first responders of 9/11. The heroes of 9/11. The people that are sick and dying as a result of the 9/11 environmental disaster."
Then I posted something from first responder John Feal that said.
"Shame on anyone who opposes the "TRUTH"
You ask if I'm interested in truth. You aggressively attempt to disrupt the movement I am apart of that tries to get a real investigation into the attacks of 9/11. That, and justice. For the murders of 2,973+ people.
I should be the one asking you. Are you interested in the truth?
If there are so many organizations helping first responders, then why aren't these organizations helping to hold those responsible for their sickness, accountable, and why are so many first responders living week to week, barely managing to get by, and why aren't the media outlets outside of New York covering their dilemma, and so on?
I'm glad you say that you've given first responders a lot of money.
As for Kevin Barrett... Originally I said I don't trust you. I still don't. The link you posted does not show Kevin Barrett's "side of the story", and I have no desire to correspond with you through email.
That being said, I also have no desire to sit here, and debate with you the idea that Controlled Demolition took place.
I would like, however, for you to act as an adult, and answer this one question I left for you.
That requires a simple yes or no please.
Jon Gold on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 9:15pm.
Jon, what seems to be the trouble?
You don't trust that I'm telling the truth about Kevin Barrett's bizarre lies and violent fantasies. You said you wanted to see his emails.
I offered to send them to you and publicly printed my email address.
Now you say you don't want to correspond with me. And you're asking ME to act like an adult?
Interesting take you have on the truth, Jon.
As for my interfering with "the truth" in some way, what I do is present verifiable facts to counter the demonstrable lies of the "Truth Movement." I have refuted dozens upon dozens of these lies,and cleared up many more misperceptions. If you think that deliberate lies like Kevin Barrett's somehow serve the victims of 9/11, I will always strongly disagree. I examine specific statements and put my replies in writing for all to read. Somehow to you that's a traitorous act.
At Ground Zero I oppose people who think the FDNY was "in on it." I'm going to continue doing that. I will gladly change my position and apologize when they present evidence to back their claims. But they are unable to provide a single shred of evidence to counter my facts. They can go for hours and not say a single true thing to the public. When I ask them, not a single one of them has been able to tell me anything I've gotten wrong since I began going there in June.
Anyone is free to point out what I have gotten wrong. I welcome correction. No one has done so. No one. What sort of truth is it that can only be supported by lies?
I directly answered your question about a USG coverup in my reply of the 24th.
Mark Roberts on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 9:59pm.
You didn't. You said you have found no evidence that the Government let it happen on purpose. You said you have found no evidence that they made it happen on purpose, and you said you have found no evidence they are covering up the cause of the attacks.
I'll ask you again.
It requires a yes or a no.
Jon Gold on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 10:09pm.
Jon, I answered your question. Since I have seen no evidence of those things, obviously I don't have any reason to believe they are true. If I were "the United States Government," I could say, "Yes, I did that' or "No, I didn't." I'm not the United States Government, Jon. I judge by the available evidence.
When do you plan to present your evidence of a LIHOP or MIHOP scenario? I'll be more than glad to look at it.
And to stay on topic, should I assume that you do in fact support Kevin Barrett saying that Larry Silverstein is a mass murderer, a traitor, and an insurance fraudster?
Please respond. The reason I posted here was to bring to your attention Barrett's hideous lies and violent fantasies of his critics' execution.
You proudly participated in Barrett's "Truth Jihad." Do you support his statements or not?
Mark Roberts on Wed, 12/27/2006 - 10:27pm.
Are you really this stupid?
The events of 9/11 cover a WIDE RANGE of topics. Some even go outside the realm of your "talking points."
Tell me about the 28 redacted pages of the Joint Congressional Inquiry, and tell me why that is not considered a "cover-up?"
Tell me about transcripts and documents relating to the July 10, 2001 meeting that took place between former CIA Director George Tenet and then National Security Advisor, Condoleezza Rice, and why withholding that information from the public is not considered a "cover-up."
Tell me about the CIA Inspector General’s report entitled, “CIA Accountability With Respect To The 9/11 Attacks”, and why withholding that information from the public is not considered a "cover-up?"
That's just to name a few of the OBVIOUS cover-ups Mark.
Why is ANY cover-up acceptable Mark?
As for presenting "my" evidence... I have blogs as far as the eye can see on this site, and a 9/11 Truther Forum to boot.
As for Kevin Barrett's statements regarding "Larry Silverstein is a mass murderer, a traitor, and an insurance fraudster...", I'd say we'd need a new investigation to find out.
A new investigation into the events of September 11th, and this time, a truly bipartisan, global, with families invested from the beginning, middle, and throughout the end.
Where is your evidence that creating a "stacked deck" commission that refused to investigate 70% of the questions put forward by the families is acceptable?
Jon Gold on Wed, 12/27/2006 - 11:12pm.
The very fact....
That you couldn't answer yes to my question, shows EXACTLY how "honest" you are in your efforts against the 9/11 Truth Movement. It also shows that you have an obvious agenda.
So if I call Kevin Barrett a
So if I call Kevin Barrett a mass murderer, a traitor, and an insurance fraudster, but do not produce a shred of evidence to back my claims against him, those claims should be investigated by the authorities, using our tax dollars? And he should have to spend his money defending his reputation? Throw the libel laws out the window?
Is that the world you live in, Jon? Where baseless accusations are equivalent to facts in the presumption that a crime has been committed?
Honestly, now, Is that how you'd like to see the District Attorney's office operate? The most absurd accusations should be investigated, without any reason to believe they are true?
Let me ask you this: do you have any reason to believe that Larry Silverstein is a mass murderer? That he has committed treason? That he has committed insurance fraud? Have you seen the slightest shred of evidence of that? If so, present just one shred here and now.
If you don't have any evidence, then why would you encourage official harrassment of this man?
I'd really like to get this nailed down. I don't mean to pick on you. This came up when it was pointed out to me that folks were praising Barrett, and I had just had a very unpleasant exchange with him in which he said that I'd be standing on the gallows too.
What concerns me, Jon, is just what kind of world you would like to live in. I've asked many conspiracy theorists the same question: why is it acceptable for you to presume guilt, but not acceptable for others?
You said you didn't trust my statement about Barrett, and said you'd like to see those emails. But when I offered to send them to you, you declined.
Why do you publlcly cast doubt on my statement, then refuse to look at the evidence? Does that strike you, or others reading this, as bizarre? I see this behavior a lot with conspiracy theorists, particularly at Ground Zero: a physical inablility to confront evidence that would disturb their fantasies. It is very, very disturbing.
Please don't forget to post your evidence of any crime that Silverstein has committed. That's what rational adults do: back their claims with evidence.
Mark Roberts on Thu, 12/28/2006 - 10:07am.
Weren't you just owned, and exposed for being a dishonest individual with an agenda?
Tell me Mark, what color is the sky in this fantasy world that you live in where the 9/11 Commission fulfilled its' mandate to give a "full and complete accounting" of the attacks of 9/11, and everyone in the Commission had nothing but the best of intentions, no conflicts of interest, and wanted nothing more than to give the families seeking closure what they rightfully deserved?
In America, one is innocent until proven guilty. However, when information exists that would lead one to believe that someone is guilty of a crime, usually, an investigation takes place. If that someone is found to be guilty, then they are held to account for their crime.
The investigation you cling to was performed by a commission that was "derelict in its' duties", and as a result, their report was a "hollow failure", and now anyone with a brain questions the "entire veracity of the 9/11 Commission's Report."
I'm done "conversing" with you. You have refused to answer a single question of mine. Why on Earth would you think I would take the time to answer any of yours?
Good day to you sir.
Jon Gold on Thu, 12/28/2006 - 10:34am.
Jon Gold has just go owned - again.
We have just had another display by Jon Gold of Argument by Innuendo, that which Jon has always engaged in and for which he has been called on the carpet for months.
Argument by Innuendo is defined as directing one\\\\\\\'s listeners to a particular, usually derogatory, conclusion, by a skillful choice of words or the careful arrangement of sentences, which implicitly suggests but does not assert that conclusion. The force of the fallacy lies in the impression created that some veiled claim is true, although no relevant evidence is presented to support such a view.
http://www.esgs.org/uk/logic.htm
Jon Gold has persistently argued this way and has been repeatedly chastised and exposed for doing so. Jon refuses to present actual evidence to ever support his claims that elements of the U.S. Government were complicit in the attacks of 9/11.
Just look at the examples of his evasions in this thread where Mark Roberts has flushed Jon out. Jon, realizing he has just been owned by Mark Roberts, has not chickened out and is running away from the thread and the truth.
How Jon Gold argues by innuendo
Examples from Jon Gold in this thread:
And please answer this question. Is the United States Government perpetrating a cover-up in regards to the attacks of 9/11?
If elements of our Government were complicit in the attacks of 9/11, and you\\\\\\\'re actively helping them get away with that crime... what does that make you?
It doesn\\\\\\\'t matter if it\\\\\\\'s a lowly anonymous minion, or the leader himself. None of you \\\\\\\"debunkers\\\\\\\" have the ability to recognize a yes or no question if it jumped up and bit you in the ass.
It\\\\\\\'s amazing how you have to frame everything according to the \\\\\\\"talking points\\\\\\\" you\\\\\\\'re most comfortable talking about.
As for evidence that you\\\\\\\'re a traitor. You actively oppose the 9/11 Truth Movement. The one \\\\\\\"organization\\\\\\\" that has always actively tried to help the first responders of 9/11. The heroes of 9/11. The people that are sick and dying as a result of the 9/11 environmental disaster. I don\\\\\\\'t need much more than that.
I said , \\\\\\\"You actively oppose the 9/11 Truth Movement. The one \\\\\\\"organization\\\\\\\" that has always actively tried to help the first responders of 9/11. The heroes of 9/11.
Then I posted something from first responder John Feal that said.\\\\\\\"Shame on anyone who opposes the \\\\\\\"TRUTH\\\\\\\". You ask if I\\\\\\\'m interested in truth. You aggressively attempt to disrupt the movement I am apart of that tries to get a real investigation into the attacks of 9/11. That, and justice. For the murders of 2,973+ people.
You said you have found no evidence that the Government let it happen on purpose. You said you have found no evidence that they made it happen on purpose, and you said you have found no evidence they are covering up the cause of the attacks. I\\\\\\\'ll ask you again.It requires a yes or a no. Is the United States Government perpetrating a cover-up in regards to the attacks of 9/11?
The events of 9/11 cover a WIDE RANGE of topics. Some even go outside the realm of your \\\\\\\"talking points.\\\\\\\"
Tell me about the 28 redacted pages of the Joint Congressional Inquiry, and tell me why that is not considered a \\\\\\\"cover-up?\\\\\\\"
Tell me about transcripts and documents relating to the July 10, 2001 meeting that took place between former CIA Director George Tenet and then National Security Advisor, Condoleezza Rice, and why withholding that information from the public is not considered a \\\\\\\"cover-up.\\\\\\\" Tell me about the CIA Inspector General’s report entitled, “CIA Accountability With Respect To The 9/11 Attacks”, and why withholding that information from the public is not considered a \\\\\\\"cover-up?\\\\\\\" That\\\\\\\'s just to name a few of the OBVIOUS cover-ups Mark. Why is ANY cover-up acceptable Mark?
As for presenting \\\\\\\"my\\\\\\\" evidence... I have blogs as far as the eye can see on this site, and a 9/11 Truther Forum to boot.
Where is your evidence that creating a \\\\\\\"stacked deck\\\\\\\" commission that refused to investigate 70% of the questions put forward by the families is acceptable?
That you couldn\\\\\\\'t answer yes to my question, shows EXACTLY how \\\\\\\"honest\\\\\\\" you are in your efforts against the 9/11 Truth Movement. It also shows that you have an obvious agenda. I\\\\\\\'m done \\\\\\\"conversing\\\\\\\" with you. You have refused to answer a single question of mine. Why on Earth would you think I would take the time to answer any of yours?
This is classic Jon Gold evasion. As bad as it comes.
Note that Jon does not bring anything to the table other than innuendo. Note that he demands that everyone else answer his questions. Note that his questions always imply through innuendo that something nefarious must have occurred that one should conclude the government must have been complicit in 9/11. But Jon Gold NEVER provides any evidence to support his claims
Mark Roberts answered the question Jon Gold DEMANDED the only way anybody can: show us the evidence, Jon Gold.
Congratulations to Mark Roberts for showing once again that Jon Gold has nothing to offer as evidence to support his own claims.
Jon Gold has just go owned again.
Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 12/28/2006 - 1:02pm.
No no no...
My question required a yes or a no. Any idiot could see that. "My" evidence is plastered all over this site, and my site. I can't help it if you refuse to read it, and always have.
I'll tell you what. You provide a court that comes equipped with a judge, and a jury, and I will be more than happy to present every piece of evidence I have.
By the way. Roberts was the one that was owned. He was bitch slapped, and owned, and it felt GOOD.
Jon Gold on Thu, 12/28/2006 - 2:39pm.
It is too late to run, Jon Gold. I own you.
You have no evidence. You\\\'ve demonstrated since day one. I just listed above how you intentionally use innuendo to hide the fact that you know you do not have any evidence.
We have asked you for months for you to provide evidence to back up your claims. Every time, you refuse.
You have yet to bring any evidence here or to point to any evidence on any other site. And you just admitted it again!
Roberts, I, and others have owned Jon Gold for months. It is too late for you.
And today, I own Jon Gold big time. And it all came from Jon Gold outing himself.
Lucky for me...
99% of the individuals that post here know you're full of shit.
They really know I have the truth.
You do not fool anyone, Jon Gold. You displayed the cowardice again that has always marked your refusal to provide any evidence to back up your claims.
We know you cannot back up your claims. You cannot even con 9/11 Truthers anymore.
You are a fraud and a charlatan, Jon Gold.
Jim?
Jim Fetzer is that you?
Jon Gold, Coward
You have no place to hide, Jon Gold. Everyone here knows you cannot back up your claims.
Who's hiding?
Everyone here knows that when I do present evidence, you say it isn't evidence (even though "circumstantial evidence" IS evidence). Usually, I point out that you're the one that doesn't understand what evidence is. Then you go away and hide for a little while, only to return with the same accusations of the past. It's a sad, sorry little game you like to play.
And you stink of fear.
Too bad you still refuse to present any evidence.
You have not presented evidence. You have not presented circumstantial evidence. You do not know what evidence constitutes, Jon Gold, as I have repeatedly demonstrated.
Assertions and claims are not evidence.
Argument by Innuendo is not evidence.
Claiming to have presented evidence when none is presented is not evidence.
As Mark Roberts responded to you directly:
Jon, I answered your question. Since I have seen no evidence of those things, obviously I don\'t have any reason to believe they are true. If I were \"the United States Government,\" I could say, \"Yes, I did that\' or \"No, I didn\'t.\" I\'m not the United States Government, Jon. I judge by the available evidence.
When do you plan to present your evidence of a LIHOP or MIHOP scenario? I\'ll be more than glad to look at it.
But we know that you refuse> to present any credible evidence whatsoever, Jon Gold. Nothing.
Nothing but more assertions and innuendo.
Keep showing your cowardice, Jon, so more people can see how bad it is what you truly represent.
For proving me right. ;)
You proved you do not know what evidence is
Once again, you demonstrate that you cannot provide any evidence to support your claims.
It is on the record.
Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 12/29/2006 - 7:43am.
Jon, I answered your question. Since I have seen no evidence of those things, obviously I don\\\'t have any reason to believe they are true. If I were \\\"the United States Government,\\\" I could say, \\\"Yes, I did that\\\' or \\\"No, I didn\\\'t.\\\" I\\\'m not the United States Government, Jon. I judge by the available evidence.
When do you plan to present your evidence of a LIHOP or MIHOP scenario? I\\\'ll be more than glad to look at it.
By the way Mark...
I'm sure if you look hard enough on this site, you'll find someone willing to debate "Controlled Demolition", and whether or not Larry Silverstein is guilty of any crime with you. As I said, I have no desire.
Jon Gold: I don't trust you!
Jon Gold: I don't trust you! Show me the evidence!
Mark Roberts: Sure, I'll send it right over.
Jon Gold: Gah! You actually have evidence? Never mind.
You still haven't answered the question, Jon. Why do you ask to see evidence, then refuse to look at it?
And once again: do you want to live in a world in which accusations suffice as evidence of a crime?
Will you speak out against Kevin Barrett's despicable behavior, or will you continue to support it? You have the power to take your "movement" in a positive direction by condemning the people who blatantly lie, who falsely accuse, and who promise violent death for people who ask that that behavior be corrected.
Will you be an upright man and do so? Or does Kevin Barrett's apocalyptic revenge fantasy turn you on?
Just asking questions and demanding answers, Jon.
Mark Roberts on Fri, 12/29/2006 - 6:37am.
Who are you again?
Jon Gold on Fri, 12/29/2006 - 7:49am.
you just got owned Mark.
Chris on Thu, 12/28/2006 - 9:16am.
Show "No, Jon Gold did himself in. We own him and you." by Anonymous (not verified)
No, Jon Gold did himself in. We own him and you.
And you fell for it, Chris.
Such is the nature of fruitcakes of the 9/11 Denial Movement.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
You stink of fear.
Such a nervous laugh, Jon.
You should be nervous. You revealed yourself for all to see and now you are trying to run away from the truth.
In this one thread you demonstrated to everyone here what we have said for months: you cannot produce any evidence to back up your claims, Jon Gold.
Everyone here can see why you have always refused to answer our questions about 9/11.Everyone here can see why you refuse to provide any evidence.
You have shown yourself to be a coward and a fraud, Jon Gold.
Check two posts below...
Dipshit.
It does not work that way in the real world. YOU provide evidence for YOUR claims.
Quit your incessant evasions, little one.
I'm assuming that's you? I provided evidence, and you were no where to be found. Why is that?
Wow, and I even got 6 points for my posting of evidence.
Go ahead, try. Squirm, Jon, squirm
Jon, try to show what you quoted is evidence of anything that demonstrates that the US Government was complicit in the 9/11 attacks.
You know that you only made an assertion: That is a BLATANT cover-up, and one I would like uncovered.
You already know that assertions are not evidence.
Show "No." by Anonymous (not verified)
Sibel Edmonds, an FBI "whistle-blower" the families fought for to be heard, testified before the 9/11 Commission for 3 hours, and received a footnote in the back of the 9/11 Report. This is a woman who has been quoted as saying:
"once this issue [9/11] gets to be...investigated, you will be seeing certain [American] people that we know from this country standing trial; and they will be prosecuted criminally"
She is now the "most gagged person in American History."
That is a BLATANT cover-up, and one I would like uncovered. One of MANY.
So why don't you, and your little friend Mark, go back to thinking of ways to disrupt the 9/11 Truth Movement's efforts.
Jon Gold on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 11:01am.
You are doing a bang-up job yourself.
If anyone should be held up as an example of disrupting and discrediting any effort at the truth, it is Jon Gold himself.
Your example today in this thread clinched it, Jon.
The evidence you provided is too damning. I'd better ignore it, and instead, insult you.
Asserttions are not evidence.
You are really squirming, Jon.
Just because you claim there is a cover up, you are still required to provide real evidence.
But we know you won\'t.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ no hiding \\\\\\\\\\ Angel is next \\\\\\\\\\\ keep stroking \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ that coronary is laying in wait \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Mark Roberts--member of
Mark Roberts--member of 911Blogger for 1day, and 22hours, as of the time of this post. I wonder--yes, I wonder- why the King of Debunkers would waste his time at our blog? I mean, I'm not a member of any debunker sites--no point, see. I have to work for a living and my time's too bleeding valuable.
So Mr. Roberts, what ARE you doing here? Found out you won't be able to post anonymously soon?
But it's all gravy--I'm sure I can work with this.
Be seeing you...
Show "I stated the reason for my" by Mark Roberts
I stated the reason for my
I stated the reason for my presence here in my post about Barrett, with whom I had an email exchange a few days ago. Do you support his statements about Larry Silverstein? Do you support his reaction to people who bring factual errors to his attention? Do you agree with him that I should be executed?
i for one dont support Barretts reaction. But, what is your point?
See, i don't ask you if you support Bushs actions, do i? After all, you defend him on the 911 issue - as we do defend Barrett- so you agree on everythin?
See.. its pointless.
Now, let me ask again, where is your debunking of "911 press for truth" ?
Please answer this question. I'd be interested to know if youre working on it...
em7 on Mon, 12/25/2006 - 2:17am.
I told one of your mates
I told one of your mates that you were now a member of 911blogger, but I don't think he believes me. Well, maybe he's not really a mate and he's a little star-struck.
As for your questions, assuming it is really you, I'll pass on the first two until I've got your angle. As for your last one, I have no reason to believe you should be executed, but I do have a reason to believe you should be arrested for stalking and harrasment.
Word to the wise, sunbeam: when someone walks away from you, clearly willing to let an argument go because it serves no purpose AND YOU CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THEM TRYING TO START A FIGHT, you, sir, are behaving like a cowardly, bullying bitch. That makes you a threat to public safety, and no, I don't have to be nice to people who use their size to intimidate people. See him in action at:
http://www.911blogger.com/node/4688
You are very lucky that wasn't me you were following around, prat. But then, it is easier to get away with bullying boys than girls these days, innit? Its supposed to be "okay, cause he a guy". Well, it's not okay and I'm not bloody well amused.
But thank you for this lovely opportunity to sort you out. Now shape up, sunshine. And HOPE you never meet me face to face--I'll just call the coppers and have you carted off in cuffs; I've done it. I do not bluff.
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.
Show "Come down to Ground Zero, Colonel Sparks" by Mark Roberts
Come down to Ground Zero, Colonel Sparks
And tell your lies. Refuse to listen to corrections. Refuse to even look at evidence. Display complete ignorance about everything related to 9/11. Fail to get a single fact right.
Then tell me that you're proud of what you're doing.
And I'll tell you exactly how I feel about creeps who do that, just as I did in that video.
Interesting that you think I should be arrested for exercising the same right to free speech that the morons in ny911truth exercise. You people would choose to live in a country in which baseless accusations are admissible as evidence of guilt, and in which the Bill of Rights only applies to you. Think about it.
Come down to Ground Zero and lie to the public, Jenny. When I ask you what you think of NIST's conclusions about the tower collapses, tell me you've never heard of NIST, although you know the "official version" is all wrong.
And I'll tell you what I think of you.
So you're saying you have no
So you're saying you have no problem with being a cowardly bullying bitch? At least refreshingly honest for a sociopath.
>>Come down to Ground Zero, Colonel Sparks<<
Don't be daft. You know from viewing my profile I'm no where near New York, so that's a safe challenge for you, innit? Or do you really believe I'm a 106 year old woman made of electricity who can zap herself there in a tic? Because of you do you really ought to behave.
And as for these odd quotes:
"And tell your lies"
"Then tell me that you're proud of what you're doing."
"When I ask you what you think of NIST's conclusions about the tower collapses, tell me you've never heard of NIST, although you know the "official version" is all wrong."
...let me be the first to say, Huh? What ARE you on about? I've never had any conversations like this with you--or anyone for that matter. At least not using THOSE words. Only thing I've told you is don't be a threat to public safety...OH! I get it! You've been posting as Anonymous! Good Lord--I bet you're 911debunker... and THAT means you've been a bad boy! You're a TROLL! LOL! AND I bet you're getting real tetchy we're about to give all your anonymous sock-puppets the heave to! Well, you brought it on yourself. As for this invitation:
"Come down to Ground Zero and lie to the public, Jenny."
..I'm going to have to decline. Not too inerested in lying to anyone, much less the public. Why you would want me to will, no doubt, remain a mystery.
Last point of order: looming over people and preventing them from walking away from you IS NOT free speech--it's stalking. Git.
Now BEHAVE.
olduser_01 on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 2:49am.
You outed yourself already, Bubba Jenny.
You are one of the more confused imbeciles of the 9/11 Truth Kiddy Movement, bubba Jenny.
Pathetic for a man of your age
Really, trolling is for kids, Mark. Haven't you noticed we've moved on? This thread is cold--you're obsessed. Well, why else would you waste time with people you obviously don't like?
See, we have jobs, lives--WE don't waste hours of our time posting on sites we don't like. Wonder why you do?
Hold that thought--cause I'm pissing off.
Cheery bye.
PS: following someone after they have made it clear they just want to leave is STALKING and/or harrassment--depending on the details. STALKING is illegal. Learn to practice free speech without STALKING.
Good God! How old is this
Good God!
How old is this guy? He reminds me of the rubber sheets bully from 6th grade. I'd love to meet him at GZ, but he'd call the playground monitor as soon as I started kicking his ass.
If he isn't concripted to disrupt things here, he is so mired in an authoritarian world view that he is incapable of processing new information. John Dean wrote about these cretins in "Conservatives Without Conscience," which I highly recommend for understanding their box-o-hammers mindset.
Let's stop feeding this pathetic creature -- maybe he'll go drop turds in some other sandbox. Jenny, can you do your TROLL ALERT! message whenever you catch him posting? He offers nothing.
LEH on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 9:38pm.
>Jenny, can you do your
>Jenny, can you do your TROLL ALERT! message whenever you catch him posting? He offers nothing.<
Your wish is my command!
But feel free to sound the alarm if you catch him first.
You should know part of his "challenge" might be a response to two challenges I've given trolls in the past--who are possibly his sock-puppets. Except in my case it was a response to "courage.com"; throwing foul shite around you'd never say face-to-face without provication.
So I guess he missed the message about unprovoked shite but thinks he's got a reason "take it outside" anyway. Go figure. It would match with that authoritarian world view thing, tho.
"Conservatives Without Conscience"; good book that--though he missed Condi in the line-up.
olduser_01 on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 10:12pm.
LEH, your paranoia is sadly
LEH, your paranoia is sadly typical of 9/11 deniers. Why are you people so afraid of a few facts? And LEH, I'm a liberal and have never voted for a Republican in my life. Paranoia is not conducive to getting things right.
And no, Jenny, I didn't know where you live. In my invitation to you I gave an example of the hideous ignorance that I actually confront at Ground Zero. Get it?
Where's this fear coming from, Jenny? Why the obsession with me?
TROLL ALERT! TROLL ALERT!
Have you helped a first responder lately?
olduser_01 on Wed, 12/27/2006 - 10:43pm.
Col. Sparks, what say a few of us leftcoasters fly out to NYC
and pay GZ a visit sometime this spring, maybe Mr. Roberts will even deign to show up and have a chat. I'm sure with enough warning we could even get Jon Gold to come up from Philly for the occasion. We should be able to work it in with some other 9/11 Truth meetings as well. I've been wanting to go there and meet the locals for some time, I also have a brother in NY I'd love to visit.
What do you think? I know I'll have my video camera with me.
I doubt he will show though, even on a Saturday, and I hear he rarely misses a Saturday at GZ.
BTW -I don't believe in the death penalty, but I'm certain that there will be a whole new wing built at Leavenworth for all the 9/11 traitors.
The truth shall set us free. (Well, those that aren't lying criminals, anyway)
Love is the only way forward.
LeftWright on Thu, 12/28/2006 - 12:51am.
I might be interested--need
I might be interested--need time to save up the cash ---super-heros don't get paid much! I'd want to liason with the local PD, amoung other things.
It's a good idea--let's give it a think over the winter, eh mates?
Oh, and don't tell him when--he's down there every Saturday, let him get surprised like he surprises other people!
On a simular note, I've thought it might be good to get in contact with other members of 911Blogger where ever we live. Give the site a bit of grounding in the real world.
olduser_01 on Thu, 12/28/2006 - 1:02am.
Col. Sparks, I'm sure we here at NorCal9/11Truth Alliance
can find some money to help with the airfare.
Are you going to AZ for the conference, by chance?
Yes, we need to kick alot of things around during the next month or so and then move into high gear, we've got them running now, it's time to close this out and move on.
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
LeftWright on Fri, 12/29/2006 - 7:44am.
No, not going to AZ. Email
No, not going to AZ. Email me if you like--I've updated my contact info and have an account just for public contact--good or bad.
No, Mark, this isn't an invite--unless you want your emails posted here.
olduser_01 on Fri, 12/29/2006 - 5:02pm.
LeftWright, I'll gladly meet
LeftWright, I'll gladly meet with you or anyone else who comes to New York to discuss the events of 9/11. My email is nyctours@gmail.com.
And you heard wrong. I do not go to Ground Zero on most Saturdays.
>And you heard wrong. I do
>And you heard wrong. I do not go to Ground Zero on most Saturdays.<
Don't take his word on this, mates--he just wants to have warning to prepare. Anyone in NYC who could do some recon?
olduser_01 on Thu, 12/28/2006 - 4:20pm.
Your fear is almost
Your fear is almost palpable, Jenny. I feel bad for you.
Good to know that you will be glad to meet us and discuss the
facts and science regarding the events of 9/11/01.
I will ask that you bring a valid government id (NY state drivers license will do) with you to properly identify yourself. I will have my California state drivers license with me to reciprocate this courtesy.
Mr. Roberts, I understand from your post over at another site (rinf) that you have recently received death threats from people you identify as being members of the UK Truth movement. I'm very sorry to hear this. Can you either elaborate on or substantiate this claim so that we in the US Truth movement can ferret these people out should they appear on our shores? Thank you for your assistance in this matter.
And have him add
And have him add documentation where he's contacted the proper authorities, prefereably with a contact number of the officer on the case in the police bureau or relevant office so we can liase with law enforcement.
so Mark Roberts asks: "Do
so Mark Roberts asks: "Do you agree with him that I should be executed?"
gee, I wonder what Mark Roberts is doing here? dont fall for this traitorous douchebags ploy, its obvious(at least to me) why he is here.
Chris on Mon, 12/25/2006 - 1:05pm.
You are really scared, Chris
That is what the Truth does when 9/11 Deniers like you are confronted with it.
Things that speak volumes...
You will need realplayer...
Here is the press conference given by Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton, chair and vice-chair of the 9/11 Commission, on 9/11/2006 at the National Press Club.
Here is the press conference given by Kyle Hence, Paul Thompson, Donna Marsh O'Connor, Cristina Kminek, and Michelle Little at the very same National Press Club, on the very same date.
Do you notice a difference in the amount of press, and individuals attending the first instead of the latter? Why is that? Is that acceptable to you? Did you even know the latter took place? What would you do if you were aware of the latter?
Another pyschic response
With Jon Gold\'s inability to provide evidence of anything, he has to resort to psychic readings to try to figure out what is going on.
Such is the nature of loony 9/11 Truth Kiddies.
I hope everyone has a happy and a healthy.
Jon Gold on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 6:51pm.
Awwwwwww... thanks
Awwwwwww... thanks Jonny!!!---and a great Yuletide season to you too!!!
Why Condemning Israel is so important: Petras
Why Condemning Israel and the Zionist Lobby is so Important
“It’s no great secret why the Jewish agencies continue to trumpet support for the discredited policies of this failed administration. They see defense of Israel as their number-one goal, trumping all other items on the agenda. That single-mindedness binds them ever closer to a White House that has made combating Islamic terrorism its signature campaign. The campaign’s effects on the world have been catastrophic. But that is no concern of the Jewish agencies.” December 8, 2006 statement by JJ Goldberg, editor of Forward (the leading Jewish weekly in the United States)
Many Jewish writers, including those who are somewhat critical of Israel, have raised pointed questions about our critique of the Zionist power configuration (ZPC) in the United States and what they wrongly claim are our singular harsh critique of the state of Israel. Some of these accusers claim to see signs of ‘latent anti-Semitism’, others, of a more ‘leftist’ coloration, deny the influential role of the ZPC arguing that US foreign policy is a product of ‘geo-politics or the interests of big oil. With the recent publication of several widely circulated texts, highly critical of the power of the Zionist ‘lobby’, several liberal pro-Israel publicists generously conceded that it is a topic that should be debated (and not automatically stigmatized and dismissed) and perhaps be ‘taken into account.’
ZPC Deniers: Phony Arguments for Fake Claims
The main claims of ZPC deniers take several tacks: Some claim that the ZPC is just ‘another lobby’ like the Chamber of Commerce, the Sierra Club or the Society for the Protection of Goldfish. Others claim that by focusing mainly on Israel and by inference the ‘Lobby’, the critics of Zionism ignore the equally violent abuses of rulers, regimes and states elsewhere. This ‘exclusive focus’ on Israel, the deniers of ZPC argue, reveals a latent or overt anti-Semitism. They propose that human rights advocates condemn all human rights abusers everywhere (at the same time and with the same emphasis?). Others still argue that Israel is a democracy – at least outside of the Occupied Territories (OT) – and therefore is not as condemnable as other human rights violators and should be ‘credited’ for its civic virtues along with its human rights failings. Finally others still claim that, because of the Holocaust and ‘History-of-Two-Thousand-Years-of-Persecution’, criticism of Jewish-funded and led pro-Israel lobbies should be handled with great prudence, making it clear that one criticizes only specific abuses, investigates all charges – especially those from Arab/Palestinian/United Nations/European/Human Rights sources -- and recognizes that Israeli public opinion, the press and even the Courts or sectors of them may also be critical of regime policies.
These objections to treating the Israeli-Palestinian-Arab conflict and the activities of Zionist Lobbies as central to peace and war serve to dilute, dissipate and deflate criticism and organized political activity directed at the ZPC and its directors in Israel.
The response of the critics of Israel and the ZPC to these attacks has been weak at best and cowardly at worst. Some critics have responded that their criticism is only directed toward a specific policy or leader, or to Israeli policies in the OT and that they recognize Israel is a democracy, that it requires secure borders, and that it is in the interests of the Israeli ‘people’ to lower their security barriers. Others argue that their criticism is directed at securing Israeli interests, influencing the Zionist Lobby or to opening a debate. They claim that the views of ‘most’ Jews’ in the US are not represented by the 52 organizations that make up the Presidents of the Major Jewish Organizations of America, or the thousands of PACs, local federations, professional associations and weekly publications which speak with one voice as unconditional supporters of every twist and turn in the policy of the Zionist State.
There are numerous similar lines of criticism, which basically avoid the fundamental issues raised by the Israeli state and the ZPC, and which we are obliged to address. The reason that criticism and action directed against Israel and the ZPC is of central importance today in any discussion of US foreign policy, especially (but not exclusively) of Middle East policy and US domestic policymaking is that they play a decisive role and have a world-historic impact on the present and future of world peace and social justice. We turn now to examine the ‘big questions’ facing Americans as a result of the power of Israel in the United States.
The Big Questions Raised by the ZPC and Israeli Power in the USA:
War or Peace:
Critical study of the lead up to the US invasion of Iraq, US involvement in providing arms to Israel (cluster bombs, two-ton bunker buster bombs and satellite surveillance intelligence) prior to, during and after Israel’s abortive invasion of Lebanon, Washington’s backing of the starvation blockade of the Palestinian people and the White House and Congress’ demands for sanctions and war against Iran are directly linked to Israeli state policy and its Zionist policy-makers in the Executive branch and US Congress. One needs to look no further than the documents, testimony and reports of AIPAC and the Presidents of the Major American Jewish Organizations to observe their claims of success in authoring legislation, providing (falsified) intelligence, engaging in espionage (AIPAC) and turning documents over to Israeli intelligence (now dubbed ‘free speech’ by liberal Zionists).
If, as the overwhelming evidence indicates, the ZPC played a major role in the major wars of our time, wars capable of igniting new armed conflicts, then it ill behooves us to dilute the role of the Zionist/Jewish Lobby in promoting future US wars. Given Israel’s militarist-theocratic approach to territorial aggrandizement and its announced plans for future wars with Iran and Syria, and given the fact that the ZPC acts as an unquestioning and highly disciplined transmission belt for the Israeli state, then US citizens opposed to present and future US engagement in Middle East wars must confront the ZPC and its Israeli mentors. Moreover, given the extended links among the Islamic nations, the Israel/ZPC proposed ‘new wars’ with Iran will result in Global wars. Hence what is at stake in confronting the ZPC are questions which go beyond the Israeli-Palestine peace process, or even regional Middle East conflicts: it involves the big question of World Peace or War.
Democracy or Authoritarianism
Without the bluster and public hearings of former Senator Joseph McCarthy, the Jewish Lobby has systematically undermined the principal pillars of our fragile democracy. While the US Congress, media, academics, retired military and public figures are free to criticize the President, any criticism of Israel, much less the Jewish Lobby, is met with vicious attacks in all the op-ed pages of major newspapers by an army of pro-Israeli ‘expert’ propagandists, demands for firings, purges and expulsions of the critics from their positions or denial of promotions or new appointments. In the face of any prominent critic calling into question the Lobby’s role in shaping US policy to suit Israel’s interests, the entire apparatus (from local Jewish federations, AIPAC, the Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations etc) go into action – smearing, insulting and stigmatizing the critics as ‘anti-Semites’. By denying free speech and public debate through campaigns of calumny and real and threatened repercussions the Jewish Lobby has denied Americans one of their more basic freedoms and constitutional rights.
The massive, sustained and well-financed hate campaigns directed at any congressional candidate critical of Israel effectively eliminates free speech among the political elite. The overwhelming influence of wealthy Jewish contributors to both parties – but especially the Democrats – results in the effective screening out of any candidate who might question any part of the Lobby’s Israel agenda. The takeover of Democratic campaign finance by two ultra-Zionist zealots, Senator Charles Schumer and Israeli-American Congressman Rahm Emanuel ensured that every candidate was totally subordinated to the Lobby’s unconditional support of Israel. The result is that there is no Congressional debate, let alone investigation, over the key role of prominent Zionists in the Pentagon involved in fabricating reports on Iraq’s ‘weapons of mass destruction’, and in designing and executing the war and the disastrous occupation policy. The Lobby’s ideologues posing as Middle East ‘experts’ dominate the op-ed and editorial pages of all the major newspapers (Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Washington Post). In their pose as Middle East experts, they propagandize the Israeli line on the major television networks (CBS, NBC,ABC, Fox, and CNN) and their radio affiliates. The Lobby has played a prominent role in supporting and implementing highly repressive legislation like the Patriot Act and the Military Commission Act as well as modifying anti-corruption legislation to allow the Lobby to finance congressional ‘educational’ junkets to Israel. The head of Homeland Security with its over 150,000 functionaries and multi-billion dollar budget is none other than Zionist fanatic Michael Chertoff, head persecutor of Islamic charity organizations, Palestinian relief organizations and other ethnic Middle Eastern or Moslem constituencies in the US, which potentially might challenge the Lobby’s pro-Israel agenda.
The biggest threat to democracy in its fullest sense of the word – the right to debate, to elect, to legislate free of coercion – is found in the organized efforts of the Zionist lobby, to repress public debate, control candidate selection and campaigning, direct repressive legislation and security agencies against electoral constituencies opposing the Lobby’s agenda for Israel. No other lobby or political action group has as much sustained and direct influence over the political process – including the media, congressional debate and voting, candidate selection and financing of congressional allocation of foreign aid and Middle East agendas as the organized Zionist Power Configuration (ZPC) and its indirect spokespeople heading key Congressional positions. A first step toward reversing the erosion of our democratic freedoms is recognizing and publicly exposing the ZPC’s nefarious organizational and financial activities and moving forward toward neutralizing their efforts.
Their Foreign Policy or Ours?
Intimately and directly related to the loss of democratic freedoms and a direct consequence of the Jewish lobby’s influence over the political process is the making of US Middle East policy and who benefits from it. The entire political effort of the Lobby (its spending, ethnic baiting, censorship and travel junkets) is directed toward controlling US foreign policy and, through US power, to influence the policy of US allies, clients and adversaries in Europe, Asia and the Middle East. The Lobby’s systematic curtailment of our democratic freedoms is intimately related to our own inability to influence our nation’s foreign policy. Our majoritarian position against the Iraq War, the repudiation of the main executioner of the War (the White House) and our horror in the face of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon and destruction of Gaza are totally neutralized by Zionist influence over Congressional and White House policymakers. The recently victorious Congressional Democrats repudiate their electorate and follow the advice and dictates of the pro-Zionist leadership (Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Rahm Emmanuel, Stephan Israel and others) by backing an escalation of troops and an increase in military spending for the war in Iraq. Bush follows the war policy against Iran proposed by the zealous Zionist fanatics in the American Enterprise Institute, repudiating the diplomatic proposals of the bi-partisan Baker Commission. Congress quadruples US arms stored in Israel (supposedly for dual use) in the aftermath of Israel’s bombing of Southern Lebanon with one million anti-personnel bomblets from cluster bombs in direct defiance of US electoral opinion. While hundreds of millions of undernourished women and children suffer and die in Africa, Latin America and Asia, the Lobby ensures that over half of US foreign aid goes to Israeli Jews with per capita incomes of over $22,000 USD.
No other organized political action group or public relations firm acting on behalf of the Cuban and Venezuelan exiles or Arab, African, Chinese or European Union states comes remotely near the influence of the Zionist lobby in shaping US policy to serve the interest of Israel.
While the Lobby speaks for less than 2% of the US electorate, its influence on foreign policy far exceeds the great majority who have neither comparable organizational nor financial muscle to impose their views.
Never in the history of the US republic or empire has a powerful but tiny minority been able to wield so much influence in using out nation’s military and economic power and diplomatic arm-twisting in the service of a foreign government. Neither the Francophiles during the American Revolution, the Anglophiles in the Civil War and the German Bund in the run-up to World War Two, nor the (anti-China) Nationalist Taiwan Lobby possessed the organizational power and sustained political influence that the ZPC has on US foreign and domestic policy at the service of the State of Israel.
Confronting the Lobby Matters
The question of the power of the Lobby over US policies of war or peace, authoritarianism or democracy and over who defines the interests served by US foreign policy obviously go far beyond the politics of the Middle East, the Israeli-colonial land grabs in Palestine and even the savage occupation of Iraq. The playing out of Zionist influence over the greatest military power in the world, with the most far-reaching set of client states, military bases, deadly weapons and decisive voice in international bodies (IMF/World Bank/United Nations Security Council) means that the Lobby has a means to leverage its reach in most regions of the world. This leverage power extends over a range of issues, from defending the fortunes of murderous Russian-Jewish gangster oligarchs, to bludgeoning European allies of the US to complicity with Israel’s ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
The ZPC represents a basic threat to our existence as a sovereign state and our ability to influence whom we elect and what agendas and interests our representatives will pursue. Even worse, by serving Israeli interests, we are becoming complicit with a State whose Supreme Court legalizes political assassinations across national boundaries, torture, systematic violations of international law and a regime which repudiates United Nations resolutions and unilaterally invades and bombs its neighbors and practices military colonist expansionism. In a word Israel resonates and feeds into the most retrograde tendencies and brutal practices of contemporary American politics. In this sense the Lobby through its media, Congressional influence and think tanks is creating an Israeli look-alike. Like Israel, the US has established its own Pentagon assassination teams; like Israel, it invades and colonizes Iraq; like Israel, it violates and rejects any constitutional or international legal restraints and systematically tortures accused but untried prisoners.
Because of these fundamental considerations, we cannot oblige our Jewish ‘progressive’ colleagues and compatriots and refrain from confronting the Zionist Lobby with force and urgency. Too many of our freedoms are at stake; too little time is left before they succeed in securing a greater military escalation; too little of our sovereignty remains in the face of the concerted effort by the Lobby and its Middle Eastern ‘expert-ideologues’ to push and shove us into a new and more devastating war with Iran at the behest of Israel’s pursuit of Middle East dominance.
No other country, abuser or not, of human rights, with or without electoral systems, has the influence over our domestic and foreign policy as does the state of Israel. No other Lobby has the kind of financial power and organizational reach as the Jewish Lobby in eroding our domestic political freedoms or our war-making powers. For those reasons alone, it stands to reason, that we American have a necessity to put our fight against Israel and its Lobby at the very top of our political agenda. It is not because Israel has the worst human rights agenda in the world – other states have even worst democratic credentials – but because of its role in promoting its US supporters to degrade our democratic principles, robbing us of our freedom to debate and our sovereignty to decide our own interests. The Lobby puts the military and budgetary resources of the Empire at the service of Greater Israel – and that results in the worst human rights in the world.
Democratic, just and peaceful responses to the Big Questions that face Americans, Europeans, Muslims, Jews and other peoples of the world passes through the defeat and dismantlement of the Israeli-directed Zionist Power Configuration in America. Nothing less will allow us to engage in an open debate on the alternatives to repression at home and imperialism abroad.
Concrete man (not verified) on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 7:01pm.
The Israeli Prime Minister's Connection to 911
Ehud Olmert, the current Israeli prime minister, seems to be more popular and influential with European and American politicians than he is among his own constituents.
After the disastrous and illegal invasion of Lebanon, which he foolishly provoked and prosecuted, an Israeli poll found that 63 per cent of Israelis wanted Olmert to resign.
http://www.iamthewitness.com/Bollyn-Olmert-22Dec2006.html
Concrete man (not verified) on Mon, 12/25/2006 - 12:49am.
You're welcome...
Here's a Christmas Present.
olduser_01 on Mon, 12/25/2006 - 2:33pm.
Zelikow = FILTH
Thank you, Mr. Gold, for being a true American patriot.
You mentioned The Gypsy speaking up to Zelikow. Anyway, I believe it was you who told me about this.
Well, here is the link to the google video of The Gypsy and others speaking up to Zelikow. I believe Zelikow was supposed to have a really pale and frightened look on his face when confronted. I personally did not see that.
Everyone involved in the 9-11 truth movement should watch this 8-minute video, which is a patching together of different events where Zelikow was speaking and The Gypsy and others stood up and spoke out like the best kind of human beings on this planet would do.
I do not know how to properly insert hyperlinks when on 911blogger, though I do know how in MS Word. Anyway, here's the link....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8888742751442686831&q=the+gypsy...
I was unable to watch the last couple of minutes of this short video because Zelikow is such FILTH. He is lying unAmerican traitor FILTH. He ought to be in prison for life at the very least, and if justice were truly served, he would be charged with mass murder and treason and given the death sentence. If you look into the face of this evil man, you will not see the visage of a human being with a conscience. You will see the face of evil.
Those "escorts" at these meeting who took The Gyspy and the others by the arm and escorted them out are also good examples of disgusting unAmerican traitors.
The Gypsy and others who stood up and spoke up are probably the greatest Americans and the greatest human beings many of us will ever have a chance to see in our lifetimes.
It is not my practice to refer to any human being as FILTH, however, I am not at all sure that Zelikow belongs to the human race.
Blessings from Dachsie in Austin.
Dachsie on Wed, 12/27/2006 - 8:02am.
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Don Henley with Billy Joel: 92Y Talks Episode 72
In this episode of 92Y Talks, American rock legends Don Henley and Billy Joel come together on one stage to discuss their esteemed careers and longtime friendship. The two exchange thoughts on songwriting, record do-overs, why Dolly Parton is a superhero, and Henley’s new solo album, Cass County. The conversation...
Rod Stewart with Hoda Kotb: 92Y Talks Episode 71
Two-time Rock and Roll Hall of Famer Rod Stewart sits down with Today Show co-host Hoda Kotb for a conversation about his wild 5-decade career. The singer hilariously opens up about his wild early years, origins of his most famous songs, and his new album Another Country. The conversation was recorded on October 29,...
Tom Wolfe and Preet Bharara with Thane Rosenbaum: 92Y Talks Episode 70
Tom Wolfe's Bonfire of the Vanities made an indelible mark on literature and pop culture when it was published in 1987. In this episode of 92Y Talks, the esteemed author sits down with New York University's Forum on Law, Culture, & Society director Thane Rosenbaum and United States Attorney Preet Bharara to reflect on...
David Spade with Colin Quinn: 92Y Talks Episode 69
From Tommy Boy to Black Sheep and Just Shoot Me, David Spade helped define comedy in the 90s. In this episode of 92Y Talks, he sits down with fellow comedian Colin Quinn to discuss his time on SNL, working with Chris Farley, and new memoir Almost Interesting. The conversation was recorded on October 25, 2015 in front of...
Ted Koppel with Charlie Rose: 92Y Talks Episode 68
The ABC News veteran who’s won every significant TV award (including 42 Emmys) tells us that a major cyber attack on America’s power grid is not only possible, but likely. Scarier still is his revelation that the US is shockingly unprepared: the Department of Homeland Security has no plan for handling the aftermath...
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Adapting buildings for a changing climate
Learn more about the Resilient Buildings Lab's research on adapting buildings for climate change.
Watch the Symposium: From Sandy to Snowvember
The School of Architecture and Planning’s Resilient Buildings Lab is at the helm of new research on how buildings in New York State will need to adapt to the changing climate, an issue brought to the forefront by Hurricane Sandy in 2012 and "Snowvember," the seven-foot lake effect snow event that hit parts of Buffalo in 2014.
Led by Nicholas Rajkovich, PhD, AIA, assistant professor of architecture, and sponsored by the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA), the two-year project is assessing climate change impacts and proposing adaptive strategies for the state’s building stock.
“The buildings we’re building now will face a very different future. 100 years from now the climate in New York State is likely to have shifted dramatically,” says Rajkovich, who directs the Resilient Buildings Lab at UB. “People are thinking about how to reduce carbon emissions but they’re not necessarily thinking about how our structures should respond to a changing climate."
The effects are many. Rising sea levels may flood coastal areas of New York. More heat waves may create the need for air conditioning high in the Adirondacks. Insect migration northward may result in more termites doing damage to the wood framed buildings of New York. All of this, researchers say, could significantly impact homes, schools and places of work and worship.
Consider that weather events like the October Surprise Storm, which hit Western New York in 2006, caused significant damage because of the wet, heavy snow created by temperatures that hovered near the freezing point. “If you imagine that the winters are slowly getting warmer, over time you’re going to have more winters that are right on the edge of that wet, heavy snow," says Rajkovich.
Research results from the Adapting Buildings for a Changing Climate project are due out this summer. A series of reports will address the climate change's existing and anticipated impacts on the state's building stock and the potential economic costs of those impacts. Through extensive consultation with the building industry, the team will recommend climate adaptation strategies for current buildings and more resilent design and building techniques moving forward. Findings will be widely disseminated to policy makers, builders, building managers and homeowners.
Last November, Rajkovich and his team convened a symposium to present initial research findings. "From Sandy to Snowvember," held in UB's Hayes Hall, featured several guest speakers, including Rosetta Elkin, an assistant professor of landscape architecture in the Harvard Graduate School of Design; Terry Schwarz of the Cleveland Urban Design Collaborative; Brendan Kelly of L&S Energy Services; and Rachel Minnery of the American Institute of Architects. You can view the entire symposium by accessing the links in the right-hand sidebar.
UB's Resilient Buildings Lab is leading research on adaptive design and building strategies for a changing climate. Led by architecture faculty member Nicholas Rajkovich, the research team recently convened professionals across the building industry to present initial findings and discuss strategies being employed across the state.
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Architype Review
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ANOTHER ART MUSEUM?
The Miami Art Museum finds itself at a crossroads. A mid-sized museum at the center of the Americas, MAM is poised to expand the scope of the institution and re-define its position. Every year Miami is the focus of international attention through its renowned art fair, making it one of the travelling capitals of the global art world. Currently, the museums of Miami are its important private collections. Miami needs a new MAM for the institution’s ability to organize the city’s art activities and make them accessible to a larger community. The new Miami Art Museum will be a vital public space for cultural exchange.
MUSEUM PARK
The new Miami Art Museum will be located in Museum Park, a redeveloped downtown waterfront facing Biscayne Bay and the MacArthur Causeway, a major freeway connecting mainland Miami with Miami Beach. The masterplan, by Cooper, Robertson & Partners, knits together a collection of attractions along the park’s urban edge, opening up greenspace along the waterfront. Planned for the north edge are two buildings: Miami Science Museum and Miami Art Museum designed by Herzog & de Meuron. The two museums are set on a raised platform and share a common plaza. The new MAM simultaneously orients its front facade toward the plaza, the park, the bay, and the city, and becomes a highly visible landmark amid Miami’s cityscape while part of a contemplative, quasi-natural context. The parking level is open, exposing it to light and fresh air, and usable as a storm water runoff. The design extends the park, bringing it into the Museum platform, and enhances its potential to create sustainable outdoor spaces. The canopy creates a habitable space over the entirety of the site, a public amenity welcoming all visitors to Museum Park.
BUILDING, CLIMATE, VEGETATION
An open structure of densely arranged columns supports a shading canopy over the entire site. Under this canopy the park is intensified, becoming a dense, multi-dimensional garden with a museum buried in its heart. Tropical plants, engulfing the museum, are deeply integrated into the structural system of columns and platforms. The combination of the canopy and the hanging garden allows for a microclimate on the museum platform. The goal is to make an “outdoor interior”, stabilizing a range of comfortable outdoor temperatures to make a cooler exterior space by natural means. Stairs as wide as the plot engage the platform to the bay and a waterfront promenade. Rather than the conventional notion of the museum as an isolated jewel in a park, the building and site will together comprise a continuous, open civic space, a comfortable public veranda where community, nature, architecture, and contemporary art are harmoniously conjoined.
The new MAM will offer experience with gradual transition from the outside to the inside, from the warm to the cool, from the humid to the dry, from the street to the art. As well as creating an intermediate environment, the vegetation has the ecological benefit of reducing the energy load of the building. Minimizing the sun’s impact on the building’s envelope reduces the high cost of maintaining a controlled environment for artworks, as well as creating comfortable microclimates for outdoor public spaces.
With the help of landscape architects Arquitectonica Geo together with artist and botanist Patrick Blanc, a range of plants are selected, based on their hardiness in terms of exposure to sun, wind, and hurricanes. The open structure of columns will adapt a series of advanced horticultural techniques for the integration of vegetation and structure. As in previous examples of Herzog & de Meuron’s work, such as the Dominus Winery in Napa Valley, the building’s environmental circumstances become central to its architectural concept.
The expression of the building comes from the roof, structure, and the garden, giving the unique freedom to layout the interior according to its own optimal configuration.
PLANTED CHAMBERS
Bringing the natural elements of the park into the territory of the museum and intensifying them, the Planted Chambers provide a prolonged transition. A series of softer and increasingly ambiguous thresholds between the park, the platform, and the museum gradually brings the visitor indoors, until the museum is discovered from the inside. Like a plantation, the effects of certain plants are concentrated around specific areas, forming natural enclosures. These pockets within the vegetation are virtual chambers, almost like the galleries inside, that could be used for events and public activities. The chambers are also designed to complement programmatic adjacencies within the museum, providing outdoor environements for the lobby, theater, bistro, and classrooms. The classical juxtaposition of art & science, presented by the masterplan, is supplanted by the union of art & nature.
CURATIONAL PLAN
In collaboration with the Museum’s staff, a series of gallery typologies have been designed to fulfill the institution’s curatorial aims. Different gallery types embody strategies to both display and develop MAM’s growing collection. Different modes of display are deployed in a non-linear sequence, allowing the visitor to follow multiple directions through the museum’s collection, punctuated by specific pieces and spaces. The experience of art will be integrated into the entire building, including the garden and the garage. By presenting differentiated combinations of interior finishes in the exhibition spaces, as opposed to a traditional sequence of generic white cubes, MAM proposes a new model of collecting, curating, and experiencing art.
EXPANDED MISSION
In recent years, progressive contemporary museums have expanded their role in the social sphere, taking into account the multiple functions that support the art experience and the museum’s function as a catalyst of civic unity. These additional functions include spaces for community education, research facilities for arts professionals, and dining and event spaces. These functions are located at the periphery of the building, maximizing exposure to the “Veranda”, the Biscayne Bay and Museum Park, giving the community direct access to the site’s resources and natural assets.
Project Status: Built
Miami,
Architect: Herzog & de Meuron
Lighting: Arup Lighting
Landscape: Arquitectonica Geo
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November 29th, 2011 Russ Loede Posted in Indianapolis Colts
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Just in time for a visit to New England in Week 12, Colts head coach Jim Caldwell announced in his Tuesday press conference that he will start Dan Orlovsky instead of Curtis Painter.
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This film reel is made up of 6 smaller reels. Reel 1 is labeled "West Point, World's Fair New York 1939," and it contains scenes of men doing calisthenics, men boxing, men fencing and wrestling, men in uniform and marching, and scenes from the world's fair. Reel 2 is labeled "New York to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, June and July 1939," and it contains footage of New York City streets, a West Point gathering, and Puerto Rico. Reel 3 is labeled "July 1939, Trip to Clearwater with Jim Ryan and Ray Henderson 193[?]," and it contains views of children playing, a pilot climbing into a biplane, people with a captive bear cub, Hap Arnold's B-10 Bomber flight from Washington D.C. landing at Weeks Field and pilots in Fairbanks in August 1934, a military aircraft at Weeks Field, a boy's birthday cake, children playing in a garden, and a boat on the Tanana River traveling to the Delta Clearwater River. Reel 4 is labeled "July and August 1939, Plymouth, Washington D.C., Marengo, Black Hills, Seattle, Juneau, Fairbanks," and it contains footage of Washington D.C., people at home, people swimming, farm scenes, a man in a boat, a family gathering, Mt. Rushmore, Elkhorn Mountain, camping, a family eating watermelon along the roadside, Columbia River, boats and fishing, Juneau, and trucks on the Richardson Highway. Reel 5 is labeled "Fort Riley - Marengo," and it contains scenes of men in uniform, children playing, a family gathering, farm scenes, a waterfront and ships, totem poles, glaciers and icebergs, a car towing a trailer, travel along the Richardson Highway, a glacier, "Devil's Elbow," a family at Christmas, hay being loaded, and women getting into a car. Reel 6 is labeled "Bear, Sunset, Village of Ruby, Caribou, Mendenhall Glacier," and it contains footage of the Ruby waterfront, wildlife, the Black Rapids Glacier near Richardson Highway during its advance in the 1930s, and scenery.
Film contains footage of the Ladd Field Post Cafeteria sign, a man and a woman walking together, a man welding, large machinery, boats on the Chena River, flooded areas in downtown Fairbanks, 1st Avenue Dress Shoppe, swimming pool, Wells Alaska Motors, flooding in a neighborhood, flooding around houses, flooding in the woods, men in a boat, men walking through flood waters, boating in flood waters, Northern Commercial Company power plant with a sternwheeler riverboat parked along bank, Samson Hardware and Mining Machinery, a sunrise in the woods, large pieces of mining equipment, a dredge, men working with hydraulic giants, men working a sluicebox, people around a campfire, people in the woods camping, large mining machinery, farmland (potatoes?), a large dredge bucket, a dragline, two men in a little yellow raft on the water, men walking on the Davidson Ditch pipe, Discovery Claim Felix Pedro sign, people gold panning, a group shot of people showing off goldpans with gold and gold nuggets in them, the landscape surrounding the mining area, KFAR building and tower, the Rapids Meals and Rooms building, Rapids Hunting Lodge (Black Rapids Roadhouse), a group of men on and around a truck, and a large building on fire.
This film features what are likely relief efforts during the 1967 Fairbanks flood. A handwritten label on the film box says "Dan[?] airport, Kul[?], Church of God, Westgate, A67, Mom[?], Henry and High school, [?] Day, [?], Flood."
These scenes from the 1969 North American Championship Sled Dog Races in Fairbanks, Alaska, filmed by Fairbanks photographer Richard L. Hansen, include: an Alaska Dog Mushers Association sign; a Sled Dog Races Sweepstakes sign; dogs in dog boxes on a truck; a truck with Malamak logos; a man removing dogs from dog boxes and placing dogs in harness; a race board with names including Lombard, Attla, Redington, Shepard, Taylor, Nayokpuk, McDougall, Lake, and Folger; a race announcer; a drum filled with slips of paper for a drawing; spectators watching as the race starts under snowy conditions; a variety of dogs in harnesses; spectators buying and eating cotton candy; close-up views of dogs; a close-up view of a Fairbanks Dog Mushers Association patch on a man’s coat; many people in colorful parkas and boots; dogs rolling in snow; a sign for George Attla sponsored by J.C. Penney Co.; mushers; a truck for Wright's Aurora Huskies; and dogs peeking out of dog boxes on a truck.
This film contains news stories from 1971. Footage and stories include Larry Holmstrom interviewing tourists in a motorhome caravan and at Norlite Campground. Larry Carpenter presents a story on Manley Hot Springs that aired in July 1971. Footage includes the springs, the town, and several residents. Residents identified include Gus Benson, Bob Lee, and Bob "Whitey" Yule. Additional footage includes a report on a water project in Hamilton Acres in Fairbanks, a story about life in Mekoryuk village on Nunivak Island, and adult bicycle riding in Fairbanks in September 1971. People identified in the bicycle story include C.B. Bettisworth, Carol Bettisworth, Alexander Bettisworth, Amy Bettisworth, Andy Kleinfleld, Dr. William James, Geraldine James, Adam James, John James, and Mrs. James.
Some segments of film contain audio, and others are silent. Specific dates and other information noted on the original film are given here in parentheses. Footage includes a man speaking to a large gathering of people (undated) (silent), a student named Michael being interviewed about being expelled from school because of his refusal to cut his hair (story titled "Breeze") (1971) (sound), a man working with a radio antenna, men looking at an Alaska map, a man describing the Geophysical Institute's Biomedical Program and explaining how medical aid stations in Alaska villages can get medical information over the radio network (December 6, 1971) (sound), a story about Eneput Children's Center, women cooking, children playing (December 4, 1971) (sound), a man being interviewed about construction delays at the new Yak Estates Apartments in Fairbanks (December 7, 1971) (sound), students standing outside on a cold day, Nanooks basketball game scenes (1971) (silent), a man being interviewed about an Alaska Supreme Court Case involving charges of incompetence and immorality against a school principal (undated) (sound), children posing in a Nativity scene at First Baptist Church (1971) (sound), a story about a new training program for carpenters and journeymen (undated) (sound), men in a meeting (undated) (silent), statuettes of a gold panner being handed out at a ceremony, a story about an Alaskaland celebration (undated) (sound), children lining up to see Santa at Alaskaland Civic Center (undated) (sound), a man being interviewed about a court case involving charges against a school principal (undated) (sound), men being interviewed about police training, Lathrop High School students being interviewed about a student trooper program (1971) (sound), people in a meeting (1971) (silent), a man being interviewed about MUS Power Plant operations as men work at a coal chute and control panel (undated) (sound), people decorating a Christmas tree, men working on the pipeline, the BP building, and a cook making a meal menu (story titled "Arctic Christmas") (undated) (silent).
Footage includes mechanics (likely in Fairbanks) preparing snowmachines for Midnight Sun 600 racing, Brian Willner cleaning a snowmachine, motorhomes and support vehicles with snowmachine trailers (likely leaving Fairbanks for Anchorage), the distribution of race bibs in an auditorium in Anchorage, racers at the start line in Anchorage, Bob Hamme in a red helmet, crews picking up broken-down machines along the highway, a wrecked truck in a ditch, mechanics welding skis and rebuilding snowmachines in a shop (and possibly doing overnight repairs in Glennallen or Tok), snowmachines and racers at the start line for second-day start (possibly in Glennallen or Tok), individual racers heading out, racers on the highway, and racers returning to the finish area.
This film features earth-moving equipment at work on dam construction as well as culverts filling with water.
The film can is labeled “29th Annual North American 1974,” and the film contains footage of sled dog racing.
Footage features small houses in Fairbanks during winter, cars idling along streets in ice fog, a man pointing out exhaust system modifications designed to decrease emissions, downtown Fairbanks with ice fog during a dark afternoon, and a model and artist's concept of the Noel Wien library.
Footage includes aerial views of Yukon 800 riverboats starting on the Chena River in Fairbanks, aerial shots of boats racing along the river, Jim Movius being interviewed by Ted Lehne in Galena, the re-start of the race in Galena, and aerial views of Pike's Landing and boats at the finish line.
This footage was filmed prior to and during the Yukon 800 riverboat race. Footage includes boats and spectators at Pike's Landing on the Chena River, racer Moe Samuelson being interviewed about boat construction and the race while showing different parts of his race boat (Slo-Mo's Kayak II) to reporter Ann Handley, spectators waiting for boats in Galena, boats arriving in Galena on 6/25/77, aerial views of the Tanana River, spectators in Tanana watching boats pass by, spectators and race boats at Pike's Landing on the Chena River, the airport and spectators in Tanana (?), Jim Movius crossing the finish line in the winning boat, and Jim Movius being interviewed about the race by reporter Chuck Benson.
Footage includes 1982 Valdez Winter Carnival scenes including families on a sled hill, snowmachines, Valdez scenes, a man and woman being interviewed (silent), church, and more snowmachines. Valdez winter activities include scenes of people playing baseball on snowshoes, totem pole sculptures, the Valdez harbor, and people in costumes jumping off a boat and swimming.
The filmmaker's original labeling scheme has film AAF-20,005 numbered as Bacon 1-01 and titled "Eskimo carver with old bold [bow] drill: WP [workprint]-100 feet." AAF-20,005 has not yet been digitized - it is the workprint for AAF-20,006, which the filmmaker's original labeling scheme has numbered as Bacon 1-02 and titled, "1988 ivory carver with drill in mouth: ECN [Eastman Color Negative]-100 feet." Reed Bovee interviewed filmmaker Bill Bacon in 2010, and the following information about these films is based on Bovee's notes from that interview: "Box 1 - 3 Small Reels, 1 Large Reel - Kotzebue, Nome, Original reels and Work Prints. BIMA is a floating dredge. Huge dredge was digging up gold bearing sand off Nome. Also other shots of Nome on same reel, ivory carver Pat, close up of head shots of dogs, dog team packed with dogs, tourists panning for gold and riding dog sleds, breakwater, tug and barge coming into channel, Front Street of Nome, ivory shop cut in to ivory carver, downtown Nome, the Nugget Inn on Front Street of Nome, Dredge 5 working." [Note that this description does not entirely match actual footage on reels - it is likely that portions of this description were meant for AAF-20,084].
The filmmaker's original labeling scheme has film AAF-20,008 numbered as Bacon 1-04 and titled "BIMA dredge: ECN,ECL-1,200 feet." Reed Bovee interviewed filmmaker Bill Bacon in 2010, and the following information about these films is based on Bovee's notes from that interview: "Box 1 - 3 Small Reels, 1 Large Reel - Kotzebue, Nome, Original reels and Work Prints. BIMA is a floating dredge. Huge dredge was digging up gold bearing sand off Nome. Also other shots of Nome on same reel, ivory carver Pat, close up of head shots of dogs, dog team packed with dogs, tourists panning for gold and riding dog sleds, breakwater, tug and barge coming into channel, Front Street of Nome, ivory shop cut in to ivory carver, downtown Nome, the Nugget Inn on Front Street of Nome, Dredge 5 working." [Note that this description does not entirely match actual footage on reels - it is likely that portions of this description were meant for AAF-20,084].
This film features Joanie Adler’s birthday with eight candles on the cake, Joe Crosson Jr. or Don Crosson at the party, Joanie Adler playing croquet with parents, Joanie Adler skiing with her parents and other children, Chena River break-up near the Cushman Street Bridge in Fairbanks, Chena River break-up with cars and trucks on streets (including Illinois Street), an overview of flooding as seen from a rooftop, coal bunkers in the background, Fairbanks Winter Carnival queen contestants, and an ice throne. Notes on the original film say “Terry Gordon, Baby ‘36, Xmas, Snow, Cabin, Flood, Carnival, Break-up ‘36, and Carnival ‘36.”
This is the 1936 Winter Carnival in Fairbanks.
This film contains footage of Joanie Adler with adults, Joanie riding a pony, Joanie at the zoo, Joanie riding a bike, an unidentified couple at a mining operation, Joanie Adler swimming, Joanie with her parents at a cabin, Joanie playing with Christmas toys, children in a parade in Fairbanks near the Cushman Street Bridge, aerial shots of mountains, break-up, a family camping and sawing wood, and more aerial shots of mountains.
This film shows people skiing behind a truck as seen from the truck.
This film includes scenes of the Dave and Mary Adler wedding party, Joanie Adler holding flowers and playing in a sprinkler, Joanie Adler's birthday party with seven or eight candles, Joanie Adler cooking in a kitchen with Joe Crosson, Jr., glacier and river scenery, Mrs. Adler carrying Joanie and Mr. Adler across a creek, Joanie Adler driving a small car built by Joe Crosson, Sr., Joe helping Don Crosson drive a car, Joanie Adler with puppies, Don Adler in uniform, people at an airport, Joanie and possibly Joe Crosson, Jr. gardening, dignitaries with Governor Ernest Gruening, a Grumman Goose airplane, Joanie Adler playing with dogs, and the Adler family canoeing. This film was labeled as follows: “Mary and Dave just got married; Little Joe and Joan cooking; Joan in car summer 1939..."
This film contains scenes of men preparing gold for smelting into an ingot, caribou, and Joanie with Mrs. Adler.
This film contains scenes of family activities that appear to be mostly outside the state of Alaska.
Footage includes aerial views of Fairbanks, the pipeyard, pipeline construction, sections of pipeline arranged along the roadside, trucking on the Haul Road, and North Star terminals.
This footage shows the aftermath of the 1964 Good Friday Earthquake. Scenes include the severely damaged Government Hill Elementary School, businesses and homes, a yellow house sitting at an angle after the ground had fallen away, damage at the Alaska Sales and Service car dealership, and crushed cars.
The filmmaker's original labeling scheme has AAF-20047 numbered as Bacon 11-01 and titled “Air Shots of Kotzebue 1981.” Reed Bovee interviewed filmmaker Bill Bacon in 2010, and the following information about the group of films that includes this film is based on Bovee's notes from that interview: “Chilkat dancers, carving on the largest totem pole - The Japanese were having a World’s Fair and they wanted to have the largest totem pole so they went to Haines to have it carved; it was huge - Inuit Circumpolar Conference meeting in Nuke, Greenland in 1980, beluga hunting in Kotzebue - In the evening when the hunters bring in the whales they cut them up and hang them to dry - Nome inside shots of Omiak - When he went to Egg Island, big Omiak Eskimos climbed up the cliffs and got the bird eggs, puffin and seagull eggs - They get up there and drop the eggs down to a guy that catches them, and then he gives them to a guy in a boat where he has a basket with grass in it and they fill up the baskets - Bill got up the hill and it was so slippery from bird droppings that he kept slipping so he could not get down - They had to go around and climb up to the top and drop a rope down to him and pull him up - Says it was really embarrassing.” Notes on the film box are as follows: “Barrow Nulakatuk, ICC Meeting Inuvik NWT Canada 1960, ICC meeting Nuuk Greenland July 1, 1980, Eskimos going to ECC Island out from Nome 1950, Kotzebue beluga hunters return at night 1950” and “Reel 1: Original, Air shots of Kotzebue Oct. 31 1981.”
This film is labeled “Alaska 1925,” “Alaska 25 - Kenai R. - Skilak Lake – Hunt,” and “Alaska Hunting II.” The film contains scenes of three men in a motor boat towing another boat, men rowing an open boat down a swift river, scenes from within the open boat as a man rows, faces of men in a boat, scenery along the shoreline, men standing by a log cabin, men hiking with packs, a porcupine running into the bushes, men setting up a canvas tent, men joking around in camp, men crossing a small stream, a man playing a flute, a hillside and inlet, and a man skinning a dead bear.
This film is labeled “Alaska 1926” and “Alaska 26 Odds and Ends #4.” The film contains miscellaneous scenes of glaciers, a man with a rifle aboard a boat, a coastal community waterfront, activities aboard a ship, men climbing a snowy mountain, icy waters and glaciers, and various boats.
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NBA Pre-Draft Camp, Day Three
The third day of the NBA pre-draft camp in Orlando saw many prospects break out of their shells and finally play up to their full potential. Players are settling into playing alongside each other and the games began to take on more resemblance of actual basketball. Gary Forbes 30 point outing and Mike Taylors 24 points were the highlights of the day.
Again we started the day with drills from 9 AM to 11, giving us a chance to focus in on different parts of prospects skill-sets than we could see in the games. One player that stood out more than anyone else in the individual drills was D-League combo guard Mike Taylor, a phenomenal athlete blessed with terrific scoring instincts who was deadly creating his own shot in 1 on 1 settings. He got to the rack whenever he pleased and did a great job creating space from his defender with his jab-steps and pull-up moves.
Also leaving a strong impression was the play of Oregon senior Bryce Taylor, who had a nice all-around showing playing strong defense, knocking down shots and looking very crafty in the isolation-based drills. Robert Vaden was excellent in everything regarding the shooting portion of the morning, not a surprise considering that he took over 10 hit over 40%.
Still no sign of Jamar Butler, who is out with a hamstring injury. Joining the injured list is Ty Lawson, fresh off a breakout performance last nightwith a supposed hip pointer. Some NBA people we spoke with wondered whether hip pointer is actually code for first round promise, considering how well he played in the first day and how few point guards there are in this draft once you get past D.J. Augustin. Lets see if he comes out and plays in the final day.
The Kansas duo Darnell Jackson and Sasha Kaun did a good job in the morning drills as well. Kaun with his feel for the game, agility and scrappiness around the basket, and Jackson with his improved mid-range jumper and the intensity he brings to the floor. Its not hard to see why Kansas was so good this year with those two manning the post alongside Darrell Arthur. Jacksons strong play definitely continued in the actual game, as he made some very quick and effective moves in the post, was constantly around the ball, knocked down his only shot and showed a lot of heart.
The first game of the day pitted probably the most unselfish team in the camp (Lawsons group) against the team Jamar Butler was supposed to play for if he werent injured. The loss of the two point guards hurt the shooting percentages of the game and created some sloppy play, and also forced some unlikely candidates like Malik Hairston and Mark Tyndale to step up and man the point, which they did about as effectively as they could considering the circumstances.
It was indeed Hairston that strung together his second straight impressive performance, not so much in terms of the boxscore (12 points, 8 rebounds, 5-11 FG, 2-6 FT) but more in terms of the talent, versatility and all-around feel for the game he displayed, putting him a cut above pretty much any other prospect in this game. He was again always around the ball, doing all the little things his team needed in order to come away with the victory, whether it was executing his teams half-court sets as the defacto point guard, posting up inside, creating his own shot from the perimeter, pulling up off the dribble and rebounding the ball extremely well. His ball-handling skills look a lot better than we may have given credit foras he was very effective facing the basket, making some powerful strides to the rim and using his excellent body to shield the ball from his defender. He had four turnovers in this game, a product of spending so many minutes at the point, but it was hard not to come away impressed with the way he played in this game and in the camp as a whole.
Brian Roberts had a very strong performance as well (17 points, 5/7 FG, 1/1 3P), doing a great job mixing up his mid-range game with his dribble-drives, either finishing strong at the rim or getting to the free throw line (6-6 in this game). He seems to have significantly improved his ability to smoothly change speeds and keep his defender off-balance, which we just happened to watch him work on a few weeks back when we saw him with David Thorpe and co. at the Pro Training Center at IMG Academy. He did a solid job distributing the ball and playing under control as well, even though he didnt finish the game with even a single assist. His game is extremely text-book and attractive to the eye, and he surely helped himself with the way he played today.
Wayne Ellington bounced back in a big way after his disastrous performance yesterday, starting off extremely hot on his way to a 7-13, 17 point outing in 20 minutes. His shot simply fell for him at a much better clip, as he did a great job moving off screens and being aggressive using fakes and utilizing his strong one-dribble pull-up. On the negative side, he again did not look very good putting the ball on the floor and making his way to the rim, not standing out that much in terms of his size, quickness, toughness at the rim or ball-handling skills. He still needs to have a strong showing in the last day of the camp if hes truly serious about making a run at the late first round.
Pat Calathes wasnt quite as good as he was yesterday, but he continued his pattern of impressive play dating all the way back to Portsmouth where he showed a terrific ability to fit in quickly on a team and both make himself look good as well as others around him. He had some excellent plays putting the ball on the floor and even going coast to coast, and also knocked down an NBA 3-pointer. He finished with 10 points, 4 rebounds and 2 assists in 20 minutes.
Shan Foster played slightly better than he did yesterday, shooting 4-10 from the field for 9 points, but still has some ground to make up tomorrow if hes going to end up helping himself here.
James Gist had a worse stat-line today (6 points, 3-10 FG) than he did yesterday, but in our eyes played better this time around. He looked very active defensively in the passing lanes and did a great job getting out in transition, using his athleticism well around the rim and even knocking down a long-range perimeter jumper. The energy he brought to the floor was exactly what the doctor ordered for his draft stock. The 7 rebounds he pulled out in 20 minutes definitely stands out.
Mark Tyndale stood out for the second straight game with the excellent versatility he brings to the floor. He can really do everything except shoot the ball effectively, whether its distribute, defend, get to the rim or play his typical energetic and heady style of basketball. He might not get drafted, but could have a chance to stick on some team as there is a lot to like about the way he plays the game.
Last, but certainly not least, Joe Crawford again had another very strong game (15 points, 6-11 FG) as the go-to scoring option for his team. He got to the rim very effectively, shot the ball well from mid-range and long-range, was excellent coming off screens and played fairly well in transition. His defensive effort was good, particularly in terms of pressuring the ball, and he showed absolutely no hesitation in anything he does, which people here have to like. He needs to become a little bit more efficient with his ball-handling (he pounds the ball a little too much), but its hard not to like what he brought to the floor today.
The second game turned into an up-tempo blast in your face high-scoring affair, finishing up 101-93 in favor of team 5. For the winners, Josh Duncan continued the trend of Portsmouth Invitational Tournament standouts who were able to translate their excellent performance from the all-senior pre-draft camp in April to this setting as wellscoring 20 points (5-8 FG, 9-10 FT) and pulling down 6 rebounds. Duncan knocked down a number of open shots from the perimeter, scored a bit in the post off good feeds from his guards Ramel Bradley and Jeremy Pargo, made some nice passes himself, and was extremely aggressive getting to the free throw line. His lack of athleticism was evident at times, particularly with his attempts to face-up and put the ball on the floor, and he struggled staying in front of quicker forwards defensively. He is a very good basketball player, though, there is no question about that.
Although were still waiting for a true breakout performance from DeVon Hardin, today was another solid outing from the Cal senior. He was again aggressive with his post-moves, converting on two very nice moves, one a drop-step and another a hook shot, and also blocked two shots on the defensive end. He did show again his poor hands by bobbling a few passes and also blowing a dunk, which may have taken away a little bit from his performance. It was nice to see how aggressive he was, though, and you certainly cant argue with his NBA body or superb athleticism.
Underclassman Jeremy Pargo had a stronger performance in game two (11 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 turnovers) than yesterdays outing, doing a fantastic job showing off his incredible physical tools and getting into the paint time after time. He showed nice footwork and a terrific first step, being extremely aggressive pushing the ball up the floor in transition, but also again being typically feast or famine in regards to his distribution skills. On one hand he is able to find his teammates with decent creativity, as evidenced by his five assists, but he also seems to struggle over-handling and trying to make very high degree of difficulty passes, which resulted in five turnovers. This is nothing new from Pargo. He does seem to be separating himself from most of the other point guards, though.
Although he wasnt able to finish all of his moves, Bryce Taylor again had a solid outing (11 points, 4/9 FG, 17 minutes), showing more versatility than we may have given him credit for in college. He attacked the basket very aggressively, looking very quick off his feet elevating and trying to finish strong, and also looked pretty smooth shooting the ball and pulling up off the dribble from the perimeter. He doesnt look afraid in the least bit of trying new things here and has in turn emerged as a very effective scoring weapon for his team.
For Team 2, the best player on the floor (and likely of the day) was clearly Gary Forbes, stringing together one of the best single-game performances (30 points, 7-16 FG, 15-16 FT, 26 minutes) weve seen in the last five years of the pre-draft camp. Forbes was incredibly aggressive putting the ball on the floor with either hand and making very strong moves to the basket, being very physical once there and in turn getting to the free throw line at will. His scoring instincts might be the best of any wing player at this camp, as he makes up for his lack of freakish athleticism with phenomenal footwork and body control, being able to quickly read and exploit angles, or move intelligently without the ball, in turn showing a very good basketball IQ that impressed many people here. Although his perimeter shot wasnt a huge part of his game once again, he knocked down one of his two attempts from NBA range, which leaves optimism in that regard. Hes making a strong push for consideration in the early second round or possibly higher.
Richard Hendrix again did his best Paul Millsap impression, doing yeomens work on the offensive glass, picking up 6 rebounds on that end in just 22 minutes. He struggled to finish most of his shots inside, though, being unable to elevate quite high enough in traffic. He did have a nice move on the block in which he finished with a pretty jump-hook, and also did his typical work in transition and with simple finishes around the rim. Again he impressed with his passing ability and overall unselfishness, something that you rarely see out of any of the big men here.
The last game of the evening was another up-tempo affair, even if it ended up being a blowout in favor of Team 6, 99-78 over Team 3.
For the winners, Mike Taylor continues to help his stock by showing possibly the most athleticism of any guard in this camp. He was simply a blur in the open floor, weaving his way in and out of traffic being impossible to stay in front of even in the half-court, a looking relentlessly explosive finishing around the basket. He was a man on a mission today, making emphatic plays that clearly left a strong impression in the eyes of decision makers who had never seen him before. His perimeter shot comes better than advertised, as he displayed by pulling up off the dribble from mid-range and killing his defender for going underneath a screen, while also knocking down 2 of his 5 attempts from behind the NBA arc. He also made two very nice reads in the half-court, in back to back possessions, making good reads to slashing cutters moving off the ball for easy finishes. Hes clearly more of a shooting guard than a point, but seems to have the instincts for that not to be as much of a factor these days as it may have been a few years back. He needs to continue to be unselfish and maybe bring it up a notch on the defensive end, but you cant argue with how well hes played here so far. He definitely has a chance to get drafted.
Sean Singletary also had a nice showing, displaying excellent creativity and court-vision distributing the ball, and also being very aggressive as a scorer, finishing the game with an impressive 15 points and 8 assists. He may have over-dribbled at times and is likely kicking himself for missing all three of his attempts from beyond the arc, but it was good for him to break out of his shell here finally.
Davon Jefferson continued not to show the type of effort or fire you would expect to see from a player who is currently fighting for his professional future, after having prematurely hired an agent following an average freshman season. His conditioning looks poor, hes dribbling the ball excessively, and hes yet to make use of the terrific athletic ability that made him a prospect to start with. This is turning into a very disappointing pre-draft camp for him.
Maarty Leunen is never going to stand out in a setting like this, as there will always be bigger, more athletic players to ooh and ah over, but he once again showed his toughness, smarts and terrific skill-level by knocking down the shots that were presented to him, running the floor hard, competing on the defensive end, doing an excellent job on the glass, and not making even a single mistake. He finished with 11 points and 9 rebounds in 20 minutes
Duke senior Demarcus Nelson made a number of plays around the basket, again being extremely aggressive putting the ball on the floor and moving off the ball, taking it strong to the rim again and again and getting a good amount of calls in the process. He took mostly high percentage shots and converted at a solid rate, finishing the game with 22 points in 20 minutes.
Lester Hudson had yet another uneven performance in game two, alternating between displaying fantastic scoring instincts and creativity and forcing the issues badly at times and making bad decisions. He clearly is an A+ shooter, both from the perimeter and especially creating separation from his defender with smooth body control from mid-range, but needs to show better patience deciding when to shoot. He can throw the ball in the rim from a variety of different angles, but has not been very judicious with his decision making. He finished the game with 13 points, 2 assists, 4 steals and 4 turnovers in 23 minutes.
Plaisted struggled to make his impact felt on the court consistently, just floating up and down aimlessly at times and not using his athleticism to finish particularly strong around the basket. You cant ignore his physical tools, but at the same time, youd like to see him make more use of it on the glass or defensively. Hes in this draft for good, so he really would serve himself well to bring the intensity level up a notch and having a strong showing in the last day of the camp.
Shaun Pruitt went back to his bread and butter in day two, throwing his body around in the paint and coming up with a camp-high 12 rebounds in 20 minutes, putting his length and strength to very good use.
NBA Combine Competitive Action Recap: Day One
Jonathan Givony, Mike Schmitz
Recapping the six most impressive performances from day one of the competitive action at the NBA Combine, including Kyle Kuzma, Frank Mason, Rawle Alkins, Jordan Bell, Tyler Dorsey and Frank Jackson.
2017 NBA Draft Combine Measurements Analysis
The measurements taken at the NBA Combine in Chicago, Illinois were released today.
GSL Faros
Gary Forbes SF
Mike Taylor PG/SG
Bryce Taylor SG/SF
Robert Vaden SG/SF
Ohio St
Jamar Butler PG
Ty Lawson PG
D.J. Augustin PG
Ostrow Wielkopolski
Darnell Jackson PF/C
Sasha Kaun C
Darrell Arthur PF
Fos-sur-Mer
Malik Hairston SF
Mark Tyndale SG
Brian Roberts PG
Wayne Ellington SG
Pat Calathes SF/PF
Shan Foster SG
James Gist PF
Joe Crawford SG
Josh Duncan PF
Jeremy Pargo PG
DeVon Hardin C
Richard Hendrix PF
Paul Millsap PF
Sean Singletary PG
Davon Jefferson PF
Maarty Leunen PF
DeMarcus Nelson SG
Lester Hudson PG/SG
Shaun Pruitt PF/C
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