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Starter Location Differences Hello,I have a starter that is almost a year old. It took me some time to learn how a starter acts in the area I am living in. I know when I move, the starter will change, so I was hoping to see if anyone can share their experiences with starters in areas I may move to:San FranciscoDenverBo...	HI Owl! Hi Owl:Though i live in Canada and have tried to duplicate the earth moving, famous San Francisco Sourdough Bread recipe. I have had to realize that though I can come close to its unique tangy flavor, I won't ever be able to bring the local thriving gremlins that make the lactobacillus bactera here!I have a fri...
123 Sourdough - how to get the right consistency for proofing? I'm going to try baking the 123 SD per the recipe here. However, before actually doing the recipe I have a very specific question, and the photographs here illustrate exactly what I mean.Between the folding and the placing of the dough in the cloth-lined ba...	When pre-shaping, you dust When pre-shaping, you dust the surface very slightly with flour (or not, it will be just easier this way). Then put the proofed dough on there , pre-shape and cover it a bit with flour. After resting, you flip over the dough so the dry side is now on the bottom and the wet side on the top. No...
Why is a starter all active and bubbly but doesn’t pass the floating test? Hello everyone, anyone knows why is a starter all active and bubbly but doesn’t pass the floating test? I’ve discarded half and fed it again, it doubled in size but still doesn’t pass the test. Help	Starter or leaven? My starter never passes the float test. But...when I make the leaven the night before, the next morning, it usually does. That's when a float test matters, just before you prepare to make your dough. Not when you feed your starter. Measurements for leaven are different than those for starter.
blue rye starter guess I hadn't paid attention and not used enough.It is quite blue around the bottle now.For future ref, should I juts freeze for longer non-use periods over a week or ....?	Blue? Blue? Please explain further.For longer periods between bakes, try making a 40% hydration or less starter using a very ripe starter and add enough flour (pinching it in) until you have crumbs that just hold together. or try a 1:1:3 (s:w:f) feeding adding flour slowly afterward to get it to the sticking together ...
Doubling sourdough bread recipe This might be a stupid question, but here goes. I have a SD recipe I want to try out, which makes one loaf. I want to make two. How do I go about this, should I double the levain along with the rest of the ingredients? The levain build is 40 g mature starter, 15 g AP flour + 15 g whole s...	I hope that's all you're I hope that's all you're supposed to do, b/c I've been doing it that way for the last year with doubling or tripling. Seems to have been working fine.
Starter - will it ever ferment? Hello, hi, im from Kuwait. My starter is 5-6 days old. Its not fermenting. And im losing faith in it. this is not my first time. Ive done failed starters a few months back then stopped. There are signs of microbial activity. Its sour. Yes there are one or two bubble. but no rise in volu...	You haven't really given much You haven't really given much information. What kind of flour are you using? White, whole wheat, and rye behave differently. Approximately what is the temperature where the starter is sitting? How often are you feeding the starter? It's hard to say what you're doing wrong without knowing m...
Not looking for the fabled 'open crumb' and having a problem finding recipes I've spent a couple hours at least googling, looking for recipes or techniques for sourdough that AREN'T for the apparently holy grail of sourdough baking, the open crumb. It seems like a nice goal and all, but what I'm baking is sandwich brea...	Open crumb doesn’t equal big holes Properly fermented dough produces bread that is like a foam of just about uniformly sized cells with no dense areas. If this is actually what you have, you can make the cell size small by firmly degassing the dough and rolling up tightly when shaping. However, often times bakers new...
Is this mold or is it a very weird hooch? So I left this in the fridge for a couple months. It’s made with rye flour now but it has had other flours since March when I started it. It doesn’t have a bad smell. It just smells like sourdough. And I’ll admit it was a little dryer and I should’ve added more water cuz the ry...	This is it after first feeding this is where we are at right now 3E0D29F2-2F80-4A72-A59C-B330E5C71153.jpeg
Instant Yeast in Levain I've been having trouble working out a schedule that allows me to bake sourdough with my Levain, so I've been feeding it a few days at a time and then resigning it to the fridge for months at a time for around 9 months now. I remember once using leftover poolish started with instant yeast and tr...	This book says.... In his free Kindle ebook, Dennis Weaver says it can develop into a wild yeast and bacteria starter.https://www.amzn.com/B0086W53ZQ?tag=froglallabout-20Chapter 3, Part 3, location 2642.The wild yeast don't literally descend from commercial yeast, as they are different species. But whatever wild yeast...
How come my sourdough starter isn’t sour? Hello! I’ve started my sourdough journey not long ago. I have started my stater on 25/10/19, I have two starters, one is rye one is white/wheat, both aren’t sour. They made my breads rose tho. Any idea why they aren’t sour?	1. Your starter isn't mature 1. Your starter isn't mature yet. The internal balancing act is not complete yet, being less than 3 weeks old.2. How you store and feed your starter in terms of its temperature when you feed it, the temp of the water and flour you feed it, its tempersture when you let it grow right after...
My first starter - has it stopped? Hello allMy first (and probably not my last post) on this forum!I have been adding to my sourdough starter for the last few weeks. In the early days, it seemed to be bubbling nicely and I've always stuck to feeding it every other day (or sometimes three days) with 50 g of Doves Farm w...	Taste it is it sour?how much starter is inthe jar when you feed it? 16 -20° C is rather cool, try doubling the water amount and using more starter and less water in the recipe.(starter, water, flour) 100g starter (plus 50g warm water to make 150g 200% hydration starter, this time only) add 200g warm water, and 100g fl...
white sourdough into a rye Hi, can i convert a white starter into a rye starter? I tried to start a rye starter and it went moldy. thoughts?	Rye I've done it several times. Just feed a portion of your AP starter with rye flour. Something like one part starter, one part water and one part rye flour. Do it twice or so and you have a rye starter.
Sourdough troubleshoot Hi, I’m new here and in some need of advice about my sourdough.Ive made several loaves but none of them have worked out right. I’ve tried several different recipes.A friend let me borrow his Tartine Bread book and I followed everything step by step and it was all looking good and I was able to ge...	delani hi hi....it still looks beautiful !!!Do you bake in a Dutch Oven or directly on a tray.......it might be you bottom heat that is not as hot...
Understanding dough Hi, I've been making sourdough bread for about month. I've got a recipe /process that gives me good results but I want to understand the process better to help me when things go awry. For example, I tried an 80% hydration boule using 20%WW / 80% BF with 45 minutes autolyse and 1% diastolic malt. I ...	Especially in sourdough, the Especially in sourdough, the acids that build up during BF are beneficial for the dough, as they strengthen the gluten network. However, if they become too much from e.g. a too long BF, the gluten structure starts to degrade and weaken. If you notice your dough has overproofed, you need to ...
How can you save a sourdough starter if it has been overfed? Hello everyone,I’m new here and has just started my sourdough journey not long ago.I think I have overfed my sourdough starter, it has no activity. Please advise me how to save it please?	How long has it been since How long has it been since you fed it? If you gave it more than usual, it just should take longer for it to mature, but it shouldn't outright kill it.
Ear, Bloom, and Oven Spring - Skin Deep Beauty! I plan to post time lapse videos as they become available in the hope that others will find value in them. The comments of others may bring more things to light as we contemplate together. It is hoped that the visual data may help build some sort of consensus. Your are ur...	Hi Dan. I'm very happy for Hi Dan. I'm very happy for your progress. Indeed baking can ruin a dough that has been well worked. Taking this into account, I will put another card in the deck. I have an industrial turbo oven. It is electric and the heater only works when the turbine is on. It has steam injection system. N...
Sourdough feeding - did I leave it out too long? I keep my 100% rye starter in the fridge until it's needed for baking and I'm trying to establish a weekly feeding session. Yesterday I fed my starter and left it outside the fridge for about 8 hours. When I checked it, it had doubled in size. I put it back in the fridge...	Starter in fridge Hi Miller: I noticed your post on your starter question. I have never had an issue leaving out my starter and then putting it in the fridge at anytime. Sometimes, I change my mind and decide not to bake but yet my starter (Oscar) is lively and tripled in size. I either just put him in the fridge un...
It’s Community Bake Time again... This CB promises to be a great one. Haven't they all? Kristen, with FullProofBaking will be our featured baker. She has rocketed to the ranks of the "Prestigious Bakers" in a very short time. Here are some images of her breads. The actual Community Bake is now posted.Kristen is a sourd...	Community Bake! Very excited for the upcoming community bake! I'll be around to help answer questions if they arise. Happy baking!
Starter gone bad? Hi all,First post here - thanks in advance for your help. I made a new starter this summer for the first time - a rye/all-purpose blend. Baked with it a couple times with good results, including one of my best loaves. I neglected my starter on the counter of my warm kitchen for two days without feedin...	Feed it the bright color can come from rye with very low pH. Feed it and when it is half risen, chill it.The feeding details might be useful for us if you want detailed help.
Is my new teff starter ready? Dear TFL folks, As a first time poster, I just want to start off by thanking you all for the awesome advice and information you share. My love and focus is sourdough breads, but I was recently asked to try and figure out GF baking for a friend who is has celiac. For some reason, I was draw...	Nice! And Welcome! That is a nice looking starter! I have dabbled in GF baking but never in GF natural levain so I will impart some suggestions based on my limited experience.First of all, I know how expensive teff flour can be, so my first suggestion is to work with a much smaller amount of teff flour and starter-I'm ...
Chocolate SD starter Came across this article:https://www.sourdough.co.uk/chocolate-starter-microbial-analysis/Sounds fun!Mini o m g!	Very intriguing article What an interesting direction for breadmaking! I don't bake often, anymore, but I still love to bake-especially rye. I would think this would really be a natural for rye-based loaves.Thank you, Mini!I started reading about Mott Green and the cacao industry in Grenada. Fascinating story.So sad ab...
feedback thanks Hey lovely sourdough people. I startet getting into baking sourdough a couple of weeks ago, im hooked now! But i don’t really have any sourdough fans in my social circle, so i have been loving reading the post in here. My friends like my bread and eat it with a smile, but when i start asking about the ...	Looks great! Very impressive for only a few weeks under your belt! To get advice it's probably helpful if you provide your recipe and process. To me the dough looks like it has whole grain which makes it harder to get an open crumb. What flours do you use?
bread with terrible crumb! Hello! I'm a new baker and the first few times I made a couple beautiful loaves. Now, every time I try to bake, I get the results shown in the picture - a slightly gummy tight crumb bottom with basically an airy hole on top. I've been using this technique: https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/...	This is the picture perfect This is the picture perfect example for an underproofed loaf. The big holes are air pockets trapped during folding/shaping. Next time go for longer bulk-fermentation, especially now in the winter it can take longer. The dough should grown noticeably in size, have visible bubbles and be smoot...
How do I make my starter more alive? I have recently made a 100% wholemeal rye starter and I used it a couple of times to bake bread. The first time was a disaster, but the problem may not have been entirely due to my starter. The second attempt, using a different recipe, was better but not really successful. In betwe...	Update:Test 1: After about 8 Update:Test 1: After about 8.5 hours the starter has risen almost 1 inch in the jar. It doesn't smell much of anything.Test 2: After about 6 hours the starter has risen almost 1.25 inches in the jar. Again, it doesn't smell as strong as before.Neither starter contains any significant number...
starter advice Hi all,Fist time posting:) Like many of you I started last month the jorney to make sourdough starter. Although the starter looks good i feel it doesn't developed.I used whole grain flour and water. I fallowed a recipe shared here. First picture was taken on end of day 3 and the other one day 5 or 6 befo...	It looks like a really decent It looks like a really decent STARTer (pun intended).However, in the beginning I would recommend not using the fridge. You should feed and leave it at room temp for the first 10 days or so, so it gets some rhythm and strength. After that you can start using the fridge, but in the beginning...
Dough collapsing after scoring (overnight fridge method) My dough collapses after scoring it. I probably overproof it, my question goes more like like - what timing you suggest?Here my key dat	Sourdough, wholewheat, about 70% hydration, no yeast.Timing:Predough - 12hRough mixing - 30 Minutes autolyseAdd salt and knead 7 Minutes or so (in a Bosch dough kneader)Stretch n fold - 1hBasket time - 1hFridge time - ~8hFrom the fridge in the hot dutch ovenLast time it came over the basket, collapsed a bit with the tr...
Sourdough boule in 30C + temps, and OTG, finally! Finally, I got a sourdough boule where the scoring actually worked! Whole wheat starter, rest maida (regular store bought apf) 66% hydration. Recipe from Teresa Greenway's Sourdough Udemy course. Thanks to all the suggestions in my previous post two weeks ago about feed...	Indian Flour The flour you used could have some impacts on the final result of the bread. Indian flour is normally bleached and has high level of damaged starch (see this reference). Flour with high level of damaged starch produces weaker dough (so less volume of bread dough) and is better used in flat bread recipes (s...
Help Needed with High Hydration Ears After many years of work, my breads are starting to produces ears. BUT, with doughs of hydrations at or over 77%, the plague persist. I know it is possible because the Instagram bakers produce them all the time. Kristen of FullProofBaking is presently featured in our Community Bake ...	Maybe your oven is too hot In the video it looks like browning has started before the bloom had a chance to develop and burst through. When I remove the cover after 20 minutes the ear and bloom have completed but there is very little browning. I would try the normal 450 to see if that changes anything.My other thought ...
My baking strategy - please comment and/or critique Based on my infant-stage baking experience with sourdough I propose the following strategy that I believe could suit me: My objectives:Bake a loaf once per week.Keep the sourdough starter in the fridge.Feed the starter once per week.Keep the starter quantity at a mana...	One drawback of that feeding One drawback of that feeding/use schedule is that the 60 gr of reserve starter left in the fridge never gets properly fed/revived. It is only getting "cold fed", and even then, it's getting fed flour that is "used up" after being eaten for 7 hours.Moreover, it usually takes more than one f...
Another attempt at Forkish's OCB (Edit 08-30 : Added another loaf) Forkish's Overnight country blonde - FWSY108g starter13g T150 (whole wheat)402g T65 (wheat)25g T110 (rye)301g water11g salt 12% less water than in original recipe6h bulk fermentation at 75°F (24°C) / Shaping / 2h50 proof in the fridge (for convenience) ...	Nice colour on that loaf A very nice bake indeed!Not sure if under or over but certainly looks delicious.
Retard advice I'm very new to sourdough having baked 4 loaves with both success and failure and somewhere in between! I love wholemeal flavour and good, strong hearty taste. Currently using 20%WW 80%BF(white bread flour) mix. Retardation seems like a huge double benefit for me but I'm a bit unsure how flexibly I can us...	1. Yes, you can retard during 1. Yes, you can retard during either BF or FP. But I think FP is more common since it's easier, more convenient and you don't need to work the dough anymore.2. I think both is a bit too much. Rather do a long FP. Anything from 8-16 h should be fine.After baking the flavors take some hours ...
How to get the hydration right? One of my most difficult problems is to get the hydration of my dough right.There are two possibilities that unfortunately I face every time in the short period that I’ve been trying to bake sourdough bread. I either add too little water and the dough is very elastic and doesn’t handle w...	A thought Are you using a scale to weigh your ingredients.I've been at this several years, have always weighed the ingredients and have had few if any issues with hydration causing issues.I've had issues to say the least, but not with hydration.
In search of perfection Hi SD bakers! I have more or less the bake and taste sorted in my bake, with a happy starter chugging along side :) BUT, no matter what I try I can't get the lovely floury look on the baked loaf :( I have tried:Using rice flour in the basketUsing a little of the bread flourUsing a lot of the bre...	There is already so much There is already so much flour in the creases, it forms a smooth surface. Just scrape the flour out and you should get your patterns again.
Do you think this is safe/will work? I bought a small book about Alaskan sourdough in a used book store. When I got home and started looking at it, there is an envelope of dried sourdough starter. The book was published in 2007, "Simply sourdough: The Alaskan Way. I've never tried sourdough before although it's on m...	Dehydrated sourdough is Dehydrated sourdough is generally viable for years. I’d be surprised if it wasn’t good. Try to activate it and let us know how it works out. We are here to help...Danny
Cuttlefish Ink Swirl - Community Bake For those that want to take a ride on the “wild side” here is the CuttleFish Ink Swirl. Please use this post for all things related to the Cuttlefish Ink Swirl. All post related to the Basic Open Crumb should be posted to this page. The Basic Open Crumb Sourdough is the main focus ...	Moved from the Basic Open These 2 post were moved from the Basic Open Crumb SD page to avoid confusion. It was decided that two separate pages would avoid confusion.From MarieAnn - Not only am I not an expert, but I'm about as new at this as one can be - however -Since I recklessly asked for the Cuddlefish intructions...
Conventional vs Heritage Wheat Hello!First post to this forum. Been baking sourdough for about 1 year.Wanted peoples opinion on flours and ways to optimize recipe for heritage wheat varieties to get better oven spring. Used same recipe with conventional store bought flour vs "artisanal" flour and was surprised by my re...	New Baker, you wrote, “ Here New Baker, you wrote, “ Here are the results - right is the store bought flours (better spring), left is the artisanal flours (more disc shaped).”Isn’t it the other way around? Left is store bought flours.IMO, the quarter cut crumb shot is super nice and airy. I like it a lot.The quantity a...
Need help with my panettone I need some help with troubleshooting my panettone. I followed the typical Italian recipes (the Giorilli one to be exact) - 3x refreshments 1:1:0.5 for 4h at 28C. Mixed the levito/pasta madre together with the water and flour for 15min in my Kenwood stand mixer (dough hook), added the sugar ...	I forgot I had taken a few I forgot I had taken a few photos during the process.Levito madre before adding it to the dough IMG_20191026_203350.jpg Gluten development of the 1st dough after adding the butter IMG_20191026_211456.jpg IMG_20191026_211503.jpg First dough volume after overnight f...
Baking SD in hot weather, im desperate!! So, ive been attempting to make sourdough in indonesia, where its 30-32c everyday. i process my dough in 28c usually. im using 100% white levain with 100% hydration. The levain is 4 months old and always doubled within 4-6 hours. my recipe of 100% white loaf is: -make 1:2:2 star...	Have you watched videos of Have you watched videos of some experts doing the different kinds of folding and shaping? Copy the way the experts do those things. I know that I am very clumsy and I do a poor job of anything physical unless I practice a lot. Watching people like Trevor Wilson is frustrating for me because I...
Experimental spelt & rye sourdough Greetings again. I've really enjoyed finding this community of bakers with its interchange of recipes, ideas and suggestions - especially the considered and thoughtful responses to so many people's questions. We had a friend coming round for brunch this morning who is wheat intolerant...	I wonder what would happen if you brought the whey up to boiling and dumped it over the rye flour as a scald.
Volume and final proofing of sourdough vs yeasted dough Hi, I'm just getting into sourdough baking and am having some issues with determining when the stages of BF and final proofing are complete. I am used to making high hydration yeasted doughs which are very predictable. What I want to know is, if I made two lots of...	I don't have any factor to I don't have any factor to calculate the proofing times, since each starter is different. But in general, sourdough takes longer than instant yeast. There are some formulas out there to replace yeast with sourdough, I believe it was a cup of starter per package of yeast (11 g). But even then,...
Top Heat Issue? Hey, TFL'ers!! I have not posted in quite some time, but I'm on the site most every day. I'm back with a request for some assessment on a baking issue I had this morning. This is the first time that I've tried baking back to back loads of 4 loaves each in my oven. My first load turned out great (82%...	A couple added details Might help if I give you an idea of what kind of oven we are talking about! :) This is a DCS electric wall oven that we had installed 20 years ago. I use the "Bake" function only, no "Convection", "Roast" or other modes. The insulation in this oven is REALLY good so it holds its heat very well...
Steam Leaking from Combo Cooker I have a combo cooker with the skillet/Dutch oven design and place my bread dough on the skillet covered with the Dutch oven while baking. It is not a Lodge brand, but a similar design.I was curious whether this setup leaked steam. I proceeded to boil water in the skillet portion cover...	Only "excess" steam leaks. Hey! Welcome back! LTNS.As long as you're baking on the skillet, not on the pot part, you should be okay.Steam rises because H2O (water) weighs less than O2 (oxygen), so it will rise and be trapped in the inverted pot. Hence only the excess steam leaves/escapes.Another reason you want some ...
Proteolysis Characteristics? There’s a local bakery (I’ll leave out details that could identify them) that makes what they say is a traditional San Francisco sourdough, and indeed their starter is from San Francisco. I’ve purchased two batards from them over a couple of months and both loaves are the worst sourdough br...	Photos I would have added photos but I didn’t think to take any before I chucked the last loaf. Additionally, the loaves might identify the bakery to anyone local and I truly wish them the very best.
Feeding sourdough Hi all, haven't posted in a while, but I wanted some of your insight.The standard practice for feeding sourdough is to make 2-3x as much as you need, take what you need, and discard the rest to the trash or pancakes or the compost. Flour is cheap, but I still don't like throwing it out or being press...	I agree I've not made sourdough for a while, given the higher kitchen temperatures and variability.When I was making it, I tended to do what you've proposed.I didn't understand why I always needed to make WAY too much, and throw out the excess.So I kept a small amount 'brewing,' added the flour and water I needed, used...
Question on sourdough rolls I feel like this is a silly question so please excuse me, but is there any reason I can't just take a sourdough bread recipe that I like and shape into rolls instead of a loaf? I thought it might be nice to make sourdough fruit/nut rolls for Thanksgiving.I'm okay with them being a bit less c...	Yes it is possible to make Yes it is possible to make sourdough rolls instead of loafs, and I usually add in some commercial yeast (about 0.1-0.25% of dry flour weight works really well for me) to boost its proofing and to decrease its acidity.Or you can try do a overnight proof in the fridge if you have place for all ...
Under or Over-proved? Hi all,Have been baking sourdough for 2-3 months now and still trying to understand if I'm over or underproving my loaves. Generally I BF for 3-3.5 hrs, bench rest for 30 mins post pre-shape, shape, and then rest in banneton for 30 mins before retarding in fridge. I tend to leave for work @ 6am an...	I think your crumb looks I think your crumb looks lovely! I am no expert so I'm curious to ready what others have to say, but often I feel like my ear depends more on my scoring and shaping ability than the proof. I'll shape two loaves and try and score them the same and the ears will be quite different! Clearly not a ...
Tip - Adjusting Dough Hydration We often read about different flours absorbing more or less water. For sure, whole grains are super thirsty. Hydration of 90 - 100% are not uncommon.Here is an idea that may interest you.Let's say we have a very wet formula using mostly white flour that calls for 80%. That sounds scary h...	Good idea putting it as two Good idea putting it as two different lines in the spreadsheet. This also works if you are doing bassinage/double hydration (where you mix the dough at a lower hydration to develop strength, then add water later to get a wetter dough).
Can you tell me what went wrong with my sourdough? Newbie sourdough enthusiast and I’ve been following Tartine’s recipe. I feel like I can’t get something right? The holes are too big? Is that a bad thing? Also why is the layer just below the crust looks dense? Especially around the bottom. The layer doesn’t feel dense...	Under proofed This crumb is a result from under proofing. Assuming you're starter is healthy, bulk fermentation was too short. If you want to have another crack, I'd let the bulk ferment continue for longer than last time. Wait until you see the dough rise by 30-50% before shaping, it might take longer than it says in ...
Starter feeding advice please Yesterday was day one for my Starter. I'm totally new at this. In the morning I started it with 70 grams of flour (a 3:1 mix of AP and Rye) and 70 grams of water.I mixed ir, covered with cheesecloth, and set aside.24 hours later (this morning) I stirred it and put it back on the counter. ...	Just feed it every 24 hours, Just feed it every 24 hours, in 7-10 days you'll have a good starter.
My Timid Tartine Starter Began a wild yeast starter via Tartine method two weeks ago. I feed it every 24 hrs. At first, nothing, except water would separate toward end of feeding cycle. It took a week before I saw bubbles. Next, I began to note a small rise that took about 12 hours before starting to collapse. Now it r...	That's pretty good for a very wet starter. If the feeding is half a cup of flour with half a cup of water then the starter is very thin and gas bubbles break on the surface instead of rising and lifting the batter starter. All you have to do is feed one fourth cup of water after skipping the water in the next feeding...
Pushing bulk fermentation So, I have decided to start experimenting with lengthening the bulk fermentation of my sourdough. I think today's seemed right. I came across this video from the normally reliable Northwest Sourdough and thought that she pushed the BF too far:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nrASfyphpUThis is ...	Volume Increase I have found that working to a set increase in dough volume is the best indicator of a suitably complete bulk fermentation.For most doughs I aim for about 60-65% increase. I have no experience of doughs with high wholegrain content, so can't comment on those.Of course you will need a bulk container wher...
What is your starter flavour profile? Mine = Apricots My starter has morphed with the new batch of flour and now not only smells like apricots, the breads, batters and waffles taste of apricots (fresh not dried apricots).It has very low acidity and is quite sweat. In fact the after taste is like you have eaten fruit lo...	Mine is tasting grassy. No fruit here. Grassy. It is a rye starter, and I like the sort of vegetal quality. Over time, though, it got MUCH stronger and my breads started to taste soapy. Now I add spelt instead of more rye when I mix the levain and then 1 part spelt to 3 parts bread flour. Perfection.
everything went wrong I changed too much in one go.First off, I got gas oven and got fairly good results with baking on quarry stone, uncovered, but spraying water at loading the loaf and 8-10 minutes later.Now I thought maybe take out AP flour for higher protein content, add wheat malt for better rise, knead because m...	That's a lot of salt And what connection is the salt to the hydration?And how do you get 65% hydration?
Baking time/temp advice Last loaves needed more baking but I'm not sure how to do without burning.Details: 1000g loaf. Preheated DO. 25 min at 500 then 20-30min uncovered at 450 (or 400) because I kept inching the temperature down trying to get more bake time before burning. My oven is convection and browning is even,...	Advice Based on my experience, 500 is too hot. I preheat at 550, then drop to 475 for the actual baking. :30 at 475 covered, then :20 at 475 uncovered. I check the temp with an instant read probe thermometer with a target of 202 (I live at about 5,500 feet, so that's close to the boiling point of water at that altitude...
When to put new starter in fridge? Tropical climate question Hello all,Am based in Kolkata, India, where the ambient daytime temps right now are around 28-32C, and nighttime temps in the mid to low 20s celcius.I started a 100% hydration starter eight days ago, and have been discarding and feeding it every morning. It i...	Hi Fran I assume you watched a video by Teresa. Can you send me the link to the video (with the time location) where she says, “to feed once a day for the remaining 14 days”? Once your stater starts to mature, you will probably want to feed twice a day at 12 hr intervals. You also want to keep your starter out of the f...
Grape Starter Hi! My mother had an abundance of grapes growing in her garden, and I figured I would experiment and try to make a starter with them. I mixed 2 cups of the grapes with 2 cups bread flour and 2 cups water. Within the hour there was some bubble activity, which continued into the evening. However, when I che...	Most likely water. I've done Most likely water. I've done this with wild blackberries years ago and it does work, but, initially you'll have an abundance of yeast and little labs (which give the sour in sourdough). To get the proper balance between the 2 will take a little time - about like creating a starter from scra...
My first sourdough loaves I had doubts as to whether these would be edible or if I would have to toss them out for the wildlife around the farm to eat. Maybe I should have made one large loaf, but it looked like too much dough for even a 9x5 bread pan. It does have a tang to it, so I'm thinking I should perservere. ...	I couldn't seem to add I couldn't seem to add another photo to the body of my comments. Here is the inside. Sourdough #3.jpg
Can I change hydration early in the starter process? Hello, after several starter failures, I began the Paul Hollywood organic starter. Two days in and it’s very active. After some reading, I realize that I need to calculate hydration. I don’t think what I have now is a 100% hydration starter. The recipe for the starte...	I would wait until the next I would wait until the next feeding time, but your starter should be stable enough to handle that change. Maybe change the ratio gradually though, not suddenly all at once. Once you've reached 1:1 ratio, keep it that way until your starter is ready. After that you can change hydration again ...
1st time starter from scratch...day 16 and no bubbles... Hi,I'm attempting to produce a starter from scratch. I'm on day 16 and have seen no bubbles or rise since day 3 or 4.I am using whole wheat flour and city tap water. I have 1 cup in a glass jar. I'm discarding 1/2 c. per day and replacing with equal parts flour a...	What's your feeding schedule? What's your feeding schedule? At 68F the activity will be very slow. You may want to put it into the oven with just the oven lights on. And to reduce waste, keep 2 tablespoons or 30g in a 8oz mason jar or a small container. If it's in a large jar it will be hard to detect growth. Feed 3.5 ...
Stretch & Fold...? I see in many recipes that during the bulk fermentation stage it requires a series of 3 or 4 sets of "stretch & folds" at say 30 minute intervals. My question is...For how long would you typically stretch and fold or for how many folds would you do?As I understand this develops the gluten an also inc...	Typically a stretch and fold Typically a stretch and fold consists of 4 folds. 1 set of 2 letter folds going width ways and another set of 2 letter folds going up and down.
Newbe confused about mother starters I have been watching some wonderful YouTube videos to increase my knowledge about bread baking.Something I have been studying lately on YouTube is Mother starters or just "starters" I guess some people call them. One video I recently watched was a lady baking bread with a mother st...	Well, yes and no. A starter, levain, mother, whatever you want to call it iare natural yeasts that are found on the grains that we grind into flour. There are a number of them. Commercial yeast is only one strain or kind. As to not feeding her starter, I think what she means is that she doesn't feed it on a daily basis...
First sourdough - tips and advice and thank you! Hi everyone,I'm not sure if anyone will read this, but I so want to thank all the many bakers on this site that I have read and learned so much from. I've probably read several hundred threads! Thanks to these many forum posts, I do feel I understand a little of what I a...	I can't enlarge the thumbnail I can't enlarge the thumbnail photos, but looks good to me. BTW, the recipe seems to be off, or you mistyped, 500 water to 350 bread flour would be pretty soupy. - though the other way around would work. As to salt, 2% is a good baseline number , which would be about 2 teaspoon of t...
Troubleshooting my loaf Hi all,I’m a huge fan of the site and community and have been lurking/reading for a long time. Now, however, I feel I may need to ask your help. Ive been baking sourdough now for a few months but every time a loaf comes out a little differently and I’m having trouble identifying what is causing ...	Crust colour What do you think about the difference in colour from bottom crust and top crust? I see that perhaps the stone needs to preheat longer. Or the bread could have been removed sooner or that the loaf could have been covered near the end to slow top crust browning or the oven was too hot toward the end of th...
Sourdough starter always has hooch I'm on my 4th day of feeding my sourdough but there is always what I think is hooch on it. Right now it's really warm in my home, around 30C (86F), I've been keeping this tucked away in a cupboard so it says cooler than just leaving it out. Currently I've been leaving around 70g of st...	Welcome to TFL ! Welcome to the web site. This is a great resource for home bread bakers. I've been here almost 3 years. And the many topics go back many many years. There's a wealth of knowledge to mine. And... you're in luck. This topic was discussed just recently: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/70868/help-h...
Dough forming problem Hi! I've been growing my own starter and baking a few loaves of sourdough for around 3 months and the more I bake the more i start to see the nuances of it all. Recently, I have noticed how I am never able to come up with a cohesive dough (flour+water+starter). Whenever, I've mixed it all together...	Feel free to add less water Feel free to add less water in your starter if it's hot and humid. I personally would feed 1 : 3.5 : 3 (10g starter, 35g flour, 30g water) in the summer when my room temp is above 25C and finds the consistency easier to manage and avoid terrible over-fermentation of the levain. I do have to ...
First sourdough bread failed - advice request I decided to create a sourdough bread after many years of putting off the endeavor.I followed the instructions from Andrew Whitley's book (DO/Sourdough), making a rye starter. I believe that I followed everything to the letter, and the starter looks fine. I then tried to ma...	With rye flour in the dough, With rye flour in the dough, it's different than with wheat.Rye flour contains pentosans, which are responsible for the stickiness. Also it has very poor gluten quality, so naturally rye breads are quite dense.From the picture it looks done soon, but can you please give us the recipe and pr...
Is it possible to reduce the sourness in my bread I used a starter with a bit of wholewheat and rye instead of using my regular white starter for my recent bake and bulk fermented in the fridge for 18 hrs as I had to go out on Sat. afternoon and was too late to bake by the time I got home and had to wait till Sunday ...	hi j, try to use a shorter hi j, try to use a shorter proofing time, and try to use your starter just before it reaches its peak. I'm finding that using my starter after it has fallen, well after it reached its peak, will increase sourness. and my understanding is the longer the bulk proof, the more sourness you ge...
Kristen has a new video on YouTube Kristen of Full Proof Baking has a new video on YouTube. She is sharing, yet another innovation that is sure to interest our bakers.In her 50% Whole Grain video she does something that is very unique. She mixes 2 separate doughs, one with white flour and the other with 100% whole grai...	Differrential thirstiness This is interesting and a bit uncannily coincidental. I've done a similar experiment with our past two weekly bakes. My reasoning is a revisionist view on the common practice of giving whole grains extra time to hydrate. As a retired evolutionary botanist, I can't help but think that the se...
Lazy Open Crumb? HiI'm so keen on getting an open crumb on my bakes but I'm not so keen on the work that seems to have to go into the high hydration doughs.Is there a lazy persons open crumb that preferably involves the breadmaker doing the dough for me?I suspect the answer is no but it's worth a try.Adri	yea, there is a way.... but it's not going to look Instagram-worthy.The first lazy-person's way I learned from Steve Gamelin's youtub channel:http://www.youtube.com/user/artisanbreadwithstev - - - no final "e"I've made a few dozen of his loaves with near 100% whole wheat flour. First, follow his recipes closel...
Sourdough recipes and adding diastatic malt Hi guys, I’ve finally got my hands on some diastatic malt and I’d like to use some in my next bake of sourdough bread. I’m wondering how much I should be adding to a recipe if the recipe doesn’t have diastatic malt in the ingredients? I’m interested in seeing how it affects...	According to Hamelman's Bread According to Hamelman's Bread it should be less than 1%:"When adding diastatic malt, bear in mind that moreis not better, and an excess yields a gummy crumb.It is always better to start on the low end when addingmalt, starting with perhaps .1 to .2 percent of theflour weight."For an exampl...
Reinhart's Basic Sourdough Bread, no stretch & fold? Hello everyone.I am in the process of making Peter Reinhart's Basic Sourdough Bread from BBA, with mixing and shaping scheduled for tomorrow. After mixing the dough, he states that it should ferment at room temperature for 3 to 4 hours before shaping. However, he doe...	Kneading If I recall correctly (in BBA) the longer kneading develops the gluten fully so nothing else is required. That said, there is nothing wrong with adding in a couple stretch and folds if the bread isn't strong enough. Also, Reinhart's technique is ever evolving and I don't remember stretch and fold being a part ...
Alton Brown’s AP Sourdough Starter: Opinions? Alton Brown has resurrected his “Good Eats” show and it includes an episode titled “Wild Yeast Risin’” which is, yes, about sourdough starter. Having spent the last six months deep in sourdough land—including this forum—studying up on starters and hydration and such, I foun...	AP starter My starter is AP, always has been. Going strong for about 1.5 years now. I only keep a small amount, stored in the fridge. From that I will make a levain for whatever the formula/recipe calls for. My usual levain is 50/50 WW/AP at a 1:12.5:12.5. Usually doubles in <6 hours.I have found that BF typically...
Sourdough Boule Uneven Crumb I have been baking on and off for ~3 years. I typically bake a sourdough boule 2-3 times a month. The bread tastes great but I have always struggled to create an even crumb throughout the bread. I used to believe it had to do with my proof time, but i have tried varying it both long and sho...	My WAG. Beautiful loaf. my wild-donkey-guess... too many stretch and folds up until the end of the bulk ferment. Do just three, 30 min apart, and then let sit undisturbed for the final 1.5 hours of that first ferment.Then, at the end of that ferment, when you take it out of the bowl, before you shape, do not _stretc...
established starter smells like acetone My starter smells like acetone. I did a couple searches about starters that smell like acetone, but all the information I found was on starters within a few weeks of being started, usually starters that hadn't ever been used to make bread yet. I recieved my starter from my Grandm...	Hungry It is hungry. I would do a few feedings out of the refrigerator. The dried flakes you made will last a very very long time and can be used if you really had to. But the acetone smell means it isn't being refreshed enough. 1:1:1 is not very much for an active starter.
When does the dough go in fridge for overnight fermentation? When, after bulk rise or after 2nd rise? I don't get any tangy flavor and trying to figure out my problem. After bulk rise I put into banneton and let it go thru second rise before putting it in the fridge.I Normally bake directly from fridge in cast iron, bu...	From my Hamelman notes:If our From my Hamelman notes:If our goal is bread with a stronger tanginess:• Pre-fermenting a greater percentage of the overall flour will obviously result in more acidic loaves.• Fully ripening the final (or only) sourdough build will also result in increased acidity in the finished loaves.• L...
Mix sourdough in a dough mixer Hey experts in bread dough: I am a relatively new baker and was wondering if commercial bakeries use the dough mixer to make their sourdough loaves?My question is, how to get that beautiful open and gummy crumb without the gentle S&F in a underdeveloped dough, and applying instead, the me...	If the operate on the scale - If the operate on the scale - of course they do. Open crumb is not in water, or autolyse, or not kneading, it is in timing and hands.
Help! Sandwich bread with a doughy crumb Hi there, I have been baking this Hokkaido Sandwich bread for a while. I used to be able to make nice sandwich breads using this recipe, but recently I've encountered a problem: the crumb is very moist and almost doughy. The exterior is nice and browned, but you can see the crum...	Two possibilities come to Two possibilities come to mind:1. the dough is underproofed, which results in a gummy, sticky crumb, no matter how long you bake it (something to do with not all starches being fermented yet). So make the BF time a touch longer (maybe 30-60 min.) and see if there is any difference. Especially ...
Help! Gluten degradation during bulk fermentation. Hello. I ran into a problem recently when attempting to make sourdough. I was following the Tartine Country Bread recipe, with the exception of using all purpose flour (because it is the only unbleached white flour I had) over bread flour.When it is time to bulk fermen...	Sounds familiar This sort of thing used to happen to me, too - see my "High Hydration Nightmare" thread at http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/39876/high-hydration-nightmareI think temperature may play a role alright. That thread was posted in August. It's October now, and I no longer experience these issues.
Red Star Sourdough Yeast Several weeks ago I asked if there were any dry commercial SD yeasts available. Red Star popped up and after unsuccessful attempts to locate it in my area, I ordered a free sample from RS. I made a batch following the instructions, which are fairly simple. The results were less than desirabl...	I yave not read where anyone I have not read where anyone thought it was good. Mother Nature wins again...Thanks for the report, Old Baker.
Semolina Sourdough Bread After reading several older posts about using semolina and sourdough I attempted my own entry-level version. About 26% semolina and the rest white bread flour. Next experiment I will up the semolina to about 40%. The finished loaf turned out good but the flavor is great! The crust is crunchy/ch...	real durum flour at... In case you're interested, real durum flour (not fine meal) can be had at Indian/Pakistani grocery stores. (Pls excuse if you already saw my plug on that previous semolina/durum thread.) (And semolina is durum, for those who didn't know.)I've seen three varieties so far at Indian/Pakistani store...
How to make my sourdough bread rise (more) Hi,I have started baking with my own rye sourdough about a year ago, on and off. In my current line of experiments I have reached loaf #16 and this one has, to me, the flavour and the crunchiness of crust I had been looking for. My most recent step was to use a dutch oven inst...	Can you give us your ratios Can you give us your ratios/recipe so we get a better idea?But what I can say already without the recipe is that - if it contains a considerable amount of rye flour, you can't expect a huge rise and surface tension from it. Rye has quite little gluten with poor quality (compared to e.g. brea...
Why don't we (normally) include salt when making a starter? I've heard of using salt to slow it down when feeding. I have also been told it isn't unheard of to use salt when making a starter from scratch. But 99.9% (a rough percentage) of recipes don't. Why?Just to satisfy my curiosity I'm making a starter from scratch...	Isn't this akin to separating yeast and salt when mixing a yeasted dough - ie salt to the left, yeast to the right. I never understood that, like the salt is going to poison the yeast, but I do it anyway - it's just sort of habit really. Maybe the next dough I'll break that rule just as you are doing with the starter -...
poolish in refrigerator? I haven't been baking bread very long and when I do I've been making a no-kneed type. While that comes out just fine I wanted to try something different and that I thought might have a little more flavor so I was going to try this recipe:https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/french-style-coun...	If your fridge is not too If your fridge is not too cold (I mean like 1-2°C), it should be fine. I think leaving it out for 20 hours at room temperature should also be fine still. Probably the yeast will be a little starved, but it shouldn't kill it. And it might take a moment longer to ferment the dough.Overall, both ...
Bulk ferment.... help! It takes however long it takes right? This is just my second loaf. Loaf number one was horribly under fermented. I had given it 6 hours BF then an overnight proof in fridge. It really looked like it had done nothing, but I figured 6 hours was probably a lot. My kitchen is definitely cool, probabl...	A bit cool 70F seems a bit cool for BF. So you can expect your dough to take longer to rise. Just how long is up to your dough. Average BF temp is typically around 77-80F. If you have an electric oven (or gas without a pilot light) you can turn the interior light on and leave the door cracked open slightly (oven off...
New to the Site After Reading for Five Years I didn't want to jump in all at once, so I'm dipping a toe in. :) I love the family atmosphere of this site and the wonderfully helpful posts!I have a timing conundrum. My starter takes about 3 to 4 hours to peak. On a weekend that's fine because I'm home all day and can e...	Graham, you could feed it, Graham, you could feed it, allow it to partially or fully mature and then refrigerate. But another method would be to increase the starter to flour ratio.In order to mature (double) your starter in 4 hours what are you feeding? What type of flour(s) are you feeding? Also what is your room tem...
how soon can I bake with new starter? I started on Monday, its Saturday, can I bake with it?I was using the 1cup of flour and 1/2 cup of water and 1/2 cup of started but switched it to 1:1:1 which made it crazy watery, I don't think its risen at all in 2 days. :{I fed it this morning back to the first ratio's but still...	First, yes 1 cup of flour First, yes 1 cup of flour will make quite a bit of waste. 1:1:1 will work, though that is by weight, not volume . If you are going by cups, 1:1:1 will be very watery, so if you have a scale, change to 1 to 1 to 1 by weight and see if you get some rising. I hate to tell you to start over,...
My first sourdough hi,i am very new to sour dough. I have learnt everything thru the internet through people’s blogs, sharing of recipe etc.. i created my first sour dough starter just 2 weeks ago by feeding it equal amount of AP flour and water. For experts out there please do give me your most honest comments about m...	From the picture is looks From the picture is looks like a great success, congrats! :) Nice irregular crumb!If you slice into it right after baking when it's still warm, it's normal to be sticky and tacky. When it has cooled down, I think a little stickiness is normal.A successful loaf should:- have no gummy crumb (goo...
How much starter? I've been given many recipes. One has 50g starter to 500g flour another has 320g starter for 800g flour (2 loaves). That's pretty different ratio of active starter. My first loaf was underproofed and I wonder if needed more active starter?	You can try the 1-2-3 method. You can try the 1-2-3 method. Pretty straightforward, plus alex is so cute explaining it. https://youtu.be/APEavQg8rMw
Dough Temperature while Kneading Hi sourdough friends, I must say, making and baking sourdough is a challenge. I have already baked 2 successful loaves, and several failed attempts when I even had to throw away the dough even before baking. But, I need to persevere.... I am having a lot of trouble kneading the dough to...	questions Warmer temperatures will just make the dough ferment faster than colder temperatures. Can you please give us some details about your starter (age, hydration, how often fed, how much fed, timing of feedings, etc)? Also it would be helpful to know the formula/recipe you are using as well as technique/procedur...
Putting starter in refrigerator and reviving? Referring to this video:1:59 -https://youtu.be/P_hR43eMgug?t=1m59sIt says before placing it into the refrigerator i should feed it one last time and then put it.1.Then it says once a week bring it out fill it with flour, and place it back Then my question is Filling it equa...	"Filling it equal flour and "Filling it equal flour and water or just flour?"1. You can't just feed it with flour or it will become too dry."if i want to put it back to the refrigerator should i wait a couple of days before placing it back or i can just feed it and put it back to the fridge?"2. I just put it back in th...
Lopsided! But I did it First starter. First loaf! Havent tasted or cut it yet, but I'm already happier than expected. (I was expecting garbage) 20191003_122055.jpg Going into the oven it was a flat pancake. I thought underproofed and overhydrated (recipe 75%). I scored it about 2h before baking and used a non-...	Underproofed I guess. Gummy. Underproofed I guess. Gummy. But still edible. Next time slightly less water and longer proof. 20191003_140412.jpg
Salt in the leaven? Hamelman mentions this as a technique to slow down the levain culture during warmer humid months. That describes my part of the country. I don’t want to slow down my starter, but I’d like more time to use my pre-ferment. It’s usually ready in 3-5 hours. By 10-12 hours it’s pretty mature and getting ...	Have a look at this post. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/57019/why-dont-we-normally-include-salt-when-making-starter
Starter problems after refrigeration I'm new to baking with sourdough, and I made my first starter three weeks ago (100% hydration, 50/50 rye and AP flour). I keep it in the fridge when I'm not baking, feeding it twice a week (or 2 times during 24h before baking). I notice that it rises to about double it's size in app...	Your starter should also drop Your starter should also drop a few hours after bubbling without the fridge, so I would say it's normal to do that. But you don't need to wait 10 h before you can put it back to the fridge, 2-3 is enough until it shows some bubbles.I think if you let your breads proof outside of the fridge...
Latest Effort Hi All,First, thank you for the honest feedback, suggestions and advice! I liked the idea of baking a smaller loaf--a full kilo loaf is a lot to consume so I scaled it down to about an 830 gram loaf in total for this next bake. All else aside, I have to say I really like the smaller aesthetic of this loa...	Looks perfect to my eyes Just grand.How's the taste?What's DNS? I assume CM is Central Milling.Hester
Retarding Loaves In Refrigerator I am fairly new to both sourdough and retarding doughs overnight in the refrigerator. In the past couple of weeks I have made both of the loaves that I have included links to and am now wondering why one has the loaves shaped before refrigeration and why one does a bulk fermentation in...	Banana Oil My guess would be the bananas. Bananas are an extremely heavy ingredient. The oil they contain would, IMO, contribute to a more dense result in bread.
King Arthur AP - what's your experience? I'm wondering what kind of results others have gotten with it for higher hydration breads. After reading a few books that recommended around 11.5-12% protein for country bread, I switched from bread flour to King Arthur AP in my last two bakes, which is right in that range. The...	No Answer But, KAF company is super! They have a baker's hot line, also email. They will help you out. I've called them several times with questions not even using their recipes and always have been helpful and answered my question. Since yours is a bit more complexed, would advise emailing them with your question ...
A Taste of Ft Lauderdale Recently arrived back from a vacation in Ft Lauderdale, visiting Alan (Alfanso) and Miriam. Had a wonderful time (I always do). We visited a pub, which brewed its own beer, with Alan and Miriam bringing some food to enjoy with the drinks. I was treated to one of my favourite breads again... Ala...	Simply beautiful Simply beautiful
Starter slowed down Hey everyone! I haven’t been able to bake in the past two months and my starter has been living in the freezer or fridge - obviously it’s not in the best condition right now, it’s very slow. How would you recommend I revive it? I took it out of the fridge but it still takes about 30h for it to doubl...	Taste it, if it's very sour then go ahead and give it a feeding. Feed a spoonful of starter just enough water and flour so that it tastes like wet flour. Then let it peak before feeding again. Be sure to keep the temps around 76°F or 25°Cif it doesn't taste sour, leave it alone but keep it warm for another day event...
What if it doesnt float? If you're building a leaven (or just using from your existing starter) and you miss the perfect window of opportunity.... what happens if you start the autolyse anyway? If you let bulk ferment and second rise take however long is needed, wont it still work out? The starter is active so if you m...	Flavor and timing Yes. A lot of the reason for using it at that stage has to do with a certain flavor profile as well as more predictable timing.On a side note, a lot of times if your starter has fallen and you need another couple of hours before using ityou can just give it a stir. This redistributes the food and aera...
Troubleshooting: Sourdough starter is not doubling I've been interested in making my own bread for a while now. I finally decided to try and make my own yeast rather than buy one. This starter began on Tuesday, Sept 17th. The first week of this starter was in the 70s and 80s, but now this week we've dropped to 60s duri...	I would suggest try 1:2:2 and I would suggest try 1:2:2 and extend the feeding cycle. And if you want to further extend the feeding cycle to 24hrs, you can use a 50/50 blend of whole wheat and white flour. The white flour would usually slow things down a little bit. The starter is supposed to smell vinegary, and it nee...

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