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Recipes and Copyrights I have been wondering about the copyright status of recipes that we find in books and post here. I found an article on Slate:http://www.slate.com/id/2181684/with the following quote in it: "Copyright protection is weak when it comes to recipes. The U.S. Copyright Office states, "Mere listings of...	This is a REALLY vague area This is a REALLY vague area in the law. I did a poll and had a guest lawyer do a post on this: http://tablebread.blogspot.com/2007/10/copyright-patent-buns-of-steal.html
NY/NJ Wanted: Sourdough Starter, Fresh or Dry Long time no talk all. I used to follow this amazing community daily from 2012-2015. I am now stuck working from home and would love to get back into making homemade bread. I use to have “Friends of Carl” starter but I never dried any out for long term storage and now I am ...	Carl's Friends (1847 Oregon Trail) still going. Welcome BAA-aaack!www.carlsfriends.net is still going. $1 suggesting donation, plus S.A.S.E.I got some and used it for a while. It's powerful, strong, a little goes a long way, lasts a long time in fridge between feedings. But, I prefer the taste of a different sourdou...
Where did I go wrong? My first foray into artisan bread baking was a miserable failure! I tried to make pain de campagne (BBA, p. 195). I thought I was slavishly following the instructions in every detail, but the result was two dense, stunted, sad little boules with a small crumb, except for a flat hole near the top ...	O.k. AbbyL Your post has me wondering a bunch of things.To start, what kind of flour were you using? Was it a AP flour or a higher protein bread flour.How was your pate fermentee? Did it grow like it should when you made it, to the 1 1/2 times its starting size? If it did, then the next thing I wonder is, after you m...
Moving bread What is the best way to move bread thats proving on a flour dusted proving cloth/Couche, and then to put them onto a dusted peel/tray ready for the oven. With some breads that are delicate, longer rolls containing other heavy additions, olives, peppers etc are always very fragile. any ideas other than be c...	moving bread Hi David, have you thought of using parchment paper under the dough? I think it was TattoodTonka who showed how to place the loaves on parchment and then use rolled kitchen towels to form the couche. Then it is easy to lift paper and dough onto the baking stone. You can pull the paper out when you rotate t...
A Greenbaker Apology Hi everyone. This is a main forum apology for a BIG misunderstanding. I have seen forums spin absurdly out of control over the most childish things. Here at The Fresh Loaf I think all of us have found a haven/outlet for our desire to bake artisinal style bread and other general bread products. ...	lol. As I have said (and lol. As I have said (and thanks for the link as I didnt see this post) it was all a gigantic misunderstanding.Also, asI said in my reply to to you, the net has no frame of reference, no tone of voice and conversations/discussions are often stilted over a day or more and can so easily be misco...
Season's Eatings Season's EatingsA poem by my sister, Ann First: Off work for thirty days I started on a baking craze; And day-old pastries at my house were planted by my thoughtful spouse. "Oh, I'll stop eating like a slob the minute that I get a job!" But first: Thanksgiving! Devil day! It's pumpkin pie, what can ...	lol. so hilarious! I love lol. so hilarious! I love it!
I need immediate HELP I hope someone online right now can give me immediate help! I'm in the middle of a crazy bake it all day. This isn't a bread recipe but I see that all you bakers bake everything! I'm making a fruitcake recipe and it called for 1 can of frozen orange juice, thawed. What I didn't notice was the ...	Add a bunch more fruit? Add a bunch more fruit? Spoon out some of the liquids? Add some flour to thicken it up? It should be salvageable, but I don't know enough about fruitcakes to give you exact steps. Good luck!
Smaller loaves Hi all: TGIF! I have a question for the great bakers here. We have just two in our house and our bread gets hard and stale before we can use it. I don’t want to slice and freeze a full size loaf. I’d like to have a small loaf we could use in a day or two…say ¾ pound. If I make a standard recipe and mak...	I often make small loaves Hi Trish,I'm sorry about all the pain and heartache in Omaha right now. Makes no sense at all.I often make favorite breads and bake them in small loaf pans. I have the kind that are four small pans connected along the short sides with a flat metal piece. I use the same fermentation and proo...
Convert Volume to Bakers percent - Simple .XLS tool I made. While reverse engineering recipes, I threw together this quick little tool. Feel free to do what ever you wish with it. Share it, post it, claim credit, I don't care... ;-) I think it's pretty self explanitory. http://mikeytech.com/VolumeToBakersPercent.xls	Dough Calculator spreadsheet The Dough Calculator spreadsheet does all this for you, and more. More importantly, you do not need to know the unit weights per cup, as the calculator already knows them.--dolfSee my My Bread Adventures in pictures
The gratitude season Being that the season for counting of blessings is upon us, I have been thinking a lot about how much I appreciate this site and the enduring influence it has had on me. This online clubhouse gifted to us by our great friend Floyd has been a treasure chest full of inspiration, education, encouragem...	That is very kind, Cooky. That is very kind, Cooky. Thank you. "The kindness of the TFL community" was definitely on my Thanksgiving list. We have a great group of people here.
Site upgrade this evening I did a large site upgrade this evening, updating Drupal and a zillion of the modules. As far as I can tell, everything went smoothly. Please let me know if you experience any trouble. I hope to be doing a number of site improvements and upgrades in the next few weeks, so stay tuned.	Edit post function removed? Floyd,I am no longer seeing an Edit My Post link at the bottom of my posts (which I noticed after I found a typo in one of my posts). Has this been moved or removed?sPh
Waiting to cut it I've been cutting into my bread as soon as it comes out of the oven. Hot! with butter! Yum!However, I recently read that it was wrong to cut the bread so early. It should be left to cool, as the residual heat inside the loaf finishes cooking the bread. If you cut the bread, you let out the heat. I've...	Hot bread Yes, I know I should let it cool down a bit first, but sometimes I just can't wait. Perhaps the solution is to bake enough so that you can dig into one but still let the others cool off.When you cook roasts in the oven - regular or microwave - you're supposed to let them "set up" for a bit before slicing. T...
Email I haven't received any email in a long time. Is there a problem with this website?	If you mean TFL email ;-) contact the website owner Floyd (Floydm). I've had the same thing happen recently (and once prior). From my DM with him...<Looking at the e-mail log to your address, it says "This email was not sent because the recipient previously marked your messages as spam." I see a few other Comcast ema...
Ancient Egyptian Emmer An interesting read about Seamus Blackley's journey to bake bread from a several thousand year old Egyptian starter. Just to make the process a bit trickier, he bakes it in a hole in the ground! It's all done in a proper scientific manner, which gives it credibility.Lance	Awesome Wow, that is very cool. I love the idea of baking with ancient yeast using ancient techniques! Do you know if Blackley has documented the story of obtaining and reconstituting the starter? It looks like his personal website is down right now.
Site upgrade this evening I did a large site upgrade this evening, updating Drupal and a zillion of the modules. As far as I can tell, everything went smoothly. Please let me know if you experience any trouble. I hope to be doing a number of site improvements and upgrades in the next few weeks, so stay tuned.	Thanks Floyd This is a great site! Thanks for all your hard work. There are many of us out on the web who use the information we gather from this site to enhance our hobby or as my wife calls it, "my obsession" of making great bread.I have not had any problems using or viewing this site.Drifty BakerGo biking while it...
Good Stories - non baking books Here are a few books I'd like to recommend. I'd love to see some of your favorites - or just anything that's a good read. Browndog and weavershouse, you started this idea, but I hope others can name a few also.any of Anne McCaffrey's booksThe Man Who Used the Universe by Alan Dean Fos...	excellent books Ender's GameOrson Scott Card _______________________________________________________ Two wrongs don't make a right. Three lefts make a right
How do you store your bread? If I finish baking just before I go to bed, I have to store the bread safely BUT I can't put it in a plastic bag because it will get soggy. One evening I had an inspiration: I stored the loaf in my rice cooker. The lid isn't airtight, but it's tight enough to keep those devilish cockroaches...	Tropical Storage of Bread Try a large plastic cake carrier on the counter top. A bowl of rice, changed often, might also help inside the container but I find I end up freezing sliced bread and rewarming it in the toaster (that also was kept inside a clean sealed bag). Mini OLink: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/2...
Viewing Photos Mini Oven has been putting up photos in a png format but they do not show up with my browser. Png is a standard graphic format and should be able to be viewed with my browser. Is there a setting that needs to be changed in order to view the photos? I am using IE6 on MS XP Professional.	Re: Viewing photos (PNG in IE) Here is some information from Microsoft on PNG rendering in Internet Explorer: Link.The links within that post are useful for testing PNG rendering in your browser.sPh
Mariana, your blog has disappeared! I was perusing your blog these last few days to prepare for baking Challah and Challah dough based fancy rolls. Today I noticed that it has disappeared. Looks like you were on a trial account. Are you going to subscribe so we can peruse the blog? --dolf	dolf, re: blog Hi, Dolf, it hasn't disappeared. I deleted it, because there is no longer a need to have it. I have wrapped up my studies of sourdough baking, wrote a final essay about it for my records and I am DONE! : ) If you need some info from that blog, I will restore it for you, please copy. OK? Can't wait to hea...
sam's club bread flour? hi, sam club sells a 25 pd bag of bread flour. is that stuff suitabe for making decent breads and pizza? thanks	I don't know about Sam's Club... I don't know about Sam's Club, but I bought a 25 lb bag of bread flour from Costco. No problems so far; the breads still turn out well. I bought a 5 gallon paint bucket with a lid (hardware stores everywhere sell them) to store it in (25 lbs fit in there perfectly) and it keeps the beas...
bees and bread I've noticed that there has been a number of posts about bee keeping and honey. Its seems to me that bread making and beekeeping somehow goes together. I'm a hobby beekeeper, just 2 hives this year, and I'd love to have any bread recipes with honey or info on the status of other folks hives are doing. ...	Well, I dunno if it does Well, I dunno if it does violate the purpose of the forum, but I would say no, because it is an ingredient! If we discuss the source of our flours, then the source of our honey SEEMS like it would be appropriate as well :-). However, I might be ENTIRELY incorrect.I get my honey from my "honey...
OT: Hot, Hot, Hot Earlier this afternoon, the thermometer outside our home read 112 degrees.Colin - in Montebllo, CA	yes, It gets warmer in the summer _______________________________________________________ Two wrongs don't make a right. Three lefts make a right
Any interest in a meeting of Chicagoland bakers? I would like to know if there is any interest in a meeting of the Chicagoland / northern Illinois bakers? Simply a casual social gathering to meet others in the area, share formulas / ideas / etc. and maybe even get a few loaves into an oven. My church, which is locate...	Old home week? Steve, that sounds like so much fun. I don't live in Chicago any more, but it's still my hometown, and a baking meet-up would be a great excuse for a trip home.If you get enough residents to vote yay, I'll be there too (schedule permitting, blah blah). I am not a cook. But I am sorta cooky."
oven dried/roasted tomatoes Sorry if this is a little OT, but I'm running the bread oven today and was thinking of using trying to roast/dry some tomatoes at the end of the oven heat. I've never done this before--any good recipes that people have tried? The oven seems to hold 200-250 degrees most of the night after ba...	Tomatoes Hi!!!I made some sun-dried (actually dehydrator-dried) tomatoes last season which were wonderful. Here is the recipe (from some web-site, I don't remember) for sun/dehydrator/oven dried tomatoes:EnjoySrishtiNote that there is a lot of shrinkage in this process. Someone recentlyposted that it takes 15-20 pound...
Love baking... More than I have belly or room for. And can't give away. Hi all,Title says it all. But I'm thinking of baking "small". Problem with scaling a recipe down is that scales do not get that accurate. And I think baking times and temp would be a challenge as well. Anyone with this kind of experience? Mon	small batch baking Hello from Canada!One book on my shelves is "Small-Batch Baking for Chocolate Lovers" by Debby Maugans (also available as Kindle version), and she has at least one other entitled "Small Batch Baking (under the name Debby Maugans-Nakos). Maybe this would do the trick. Cheers!
Grain Beetles I've found some critters (not the cats) crawling around in some of my grains. Internet research convinces me that they are Sawthoothed Grain Beetles, Oryzaephilus surinamensis. The infestations are small and confined to the plastic canisters holding the grains. I've found them in some of my bulk soft w...	B eetles Get yourself some bay leaves and scatter them around and inside your grain bags... qahtan
Do you have a favorite bread or food related... Quote?? I was sitting here playing fetch with my cat, One Spot, and I started to think about quotes.... Wierd? Perhaps. But he does fetch quite well and even meows if I'm not tossing the toy to his timetable, heheh. Oh, you mean it's weird to be thinking about quotes whil...	Here's one for bread that's Here's one for bread that's not rising as fast as expected..."Be not afraid of growing slowly, be afraid only of standing still.-Italian Proverb(couldn't think of anything else!)
Imported Food It does not seem too long ago that MiniOven was in China and we were all discussing the gluten problem arising from imports from China. And yet that problem was not an isolated one, as we have learned in the months since then.For the last two days, there has been a broadcast on cable tv's c-span of a bi-...	This is part of what got me This is part of what got me involved in making my own bread, crackers and the like. I was frustrated and upset when the gluten scandal came out, having to call all over the country to see if I needed to throw out the bread that I had made! This was made worse by knowing that my cat had sev...
sourdough for the sole That's right SOLE, yes ladies and gentlemen, beat the heat (if you have it) by making yourself a wonderful starter soak for your feet to cool your soles and send your soul into sourdough heaven. Who knows? Might even be a new cure for something, knowing the "power of the beasties." Think about...	If I'm at home... I'm ALWAYS barefooted - in fact The Husband and I are getting ready to work on some bagels for breakfast (Floyd's overnight method, thank you Floyd!) and we're both sans shoes!Trish
Anyone baking in Italy? Hi,My husband and I are planning a three week trip to Italy (Emilia-Romagna and north) next fall and I'd appreciate hearing from you. Thanks.Sylvia	Trip to Italy If I were going to Italy I would reread the first part of Peter Reinhart's book American Pie. It is about his travels in Italy and America and different forms of pizza. Not quite on point to what you are asking, but related.Colin
Harry Potter I believe that one of the hardest things to do in bread baking is to wait long enough at the right times in the process. It is so easy to rush the process and yet so crucial to be able to wait at the right times.That being the case I would like to suggest Harry Potter as a good solution. I have read all ...	Ok, CountryBoy, I withdraw the question. Amazing phenomenon, is Harry Potter. Here he's been overshadowed a little by the Simpson movie premiere. I hope that business hasn't got all of Oregon permanently steamed at us.
Ratatouille - The Movie Hi all - Just got back from seeing Ratatouille. It is truly an amazing movie - one that we are sure to buy when it comes out on DVD. The french bread in the movie has amazing crumb! Highly recommended! Go see....Trish	I was hoping that would be a I was hoping that would be a good movie - will make a point to see it now.
Alternative to the windowpane test Just came across this suggestion for checking on whether your coarse wholegrain dough is properly kneaded, in cases when the traditional windowpane test won't work. "Use your thumb and forefinger to pull up a piece of the dough about an inch above the dough surface. If the dou...	That seems a bit counter-intuitive? I thought dough was supposed to be kneaded to such elasticity that it would spring BACk when pulled away a bit (this is from Hamelman's book I think, which unfortunately I don't have with me at the moment).If it stands at a ridge, doesn't that indicate the dough is not elastic enough...
Stretched/Pulled Chinese Noodles I know that this is not baking but there are essential gluten formation similarities that i want to know more about. Has anyone tried to make Chinese noodles by the stretch or pull method?The dough is 2 cups flour and one cup of water ... mix thoroughly and let sit for 60 minutes.The k...	Geeze I should have done a search on the site before I posted, not after. And it was such a recent post too. Sorry. Paul KobulnickyBaking in Ohio
So you think you want to open a bakery... An interesting video that shows how much work goes on in the back of the bakery. These guys are working hard and fast. About 3:30 into the video, there is a time lapse of various starters rising and collapsing over several hours.I'm waiting for some bread to cool enough to cu...	Phew... I got tired just watching..I don't think I could do that day after day, he really gets a workout. I'll just stick to a couple of loaves. Great video, thanks for sharing.
Rye Crust in Karelian Pie I want more technical information before i endeavor the rye crust for Karelian Pie. Are there any folks out there who can give me some helpful hints , before I endeavor this 2 parts clear rye flour, 1 part wheat flour crust, The main questions1. what is the ideal Texture2.do i use fat in the d...	(I lived in Finland for some (I lived in Finland for some time)You kinda just combine all the ingredients, it's not a very sophisticated food. So mix about 2 parts rye flour, 1 part wheat flour, a pinch of salt, 1-1,5 parts water and a touch of oil in a bowl. The dough should be malleable and shouldn't stick to anythin...
What do you do? Okay so I made a loaf of bread last night, it was done baking at 9:30. When I started to get ready to go to bed at 10:00 the bread was still warm. I did not want to put it into a plastic bag, so I left it on the pizza stone and put some plastic wrap on it. Now what do you do when your bread is still ...	Handling warm bread === Now what do you do when your bread is still warm and you want to go to bed? I know it is a silly question. ===There is no crying in football, and no silly questions on The Fresh Loaf!In that situation I wrap the bread in one of my extra-large dishcloths (which were a gift intended for proofing ...
Bread and sweetness Hi all -One of the reasons I started (actually, restarted) baking my own bread is that I was so unhappy with the overwhelming molasses/sweet flavors of the whole grain breads commercially available to me. Before coming to this site and doing some reading, I thought that molasses was a "secret" ingre...	Too much of a good thing A lot (though not all) of conmercial breads (and other products, for that matter) are full of sugar, and it's easy to get so acclimated to it that 'real' flavors seems wrong. Pumping up a formula with a lot of sugar and salt is an inexpensive way to create flavor for mass production. As opposed...
Salt in bread I bake most of my bread from the "Bread Alone" book, with a couple here and there from Laurel's Kitchen. Typically the Bread Alone recipes call for a tablespoon of salt for two loaves. Has anyone tried using less salt and still get good results? I have never had anyone complain about the breads being t...	Re: Salt in bread Hi and welcome!Typically salt will be about 2% by weight of the total flour in the dough. Salt is not for flavor only. It controls the rate of fermentation (more salt -> slower fermentation), the dough characteristics (makes the dough more elastic and less sticky), and affects the shelf life of the b...
Master Class with Jeffrey Hamelman Jeffrey Hamelman will be giving a master class on brioche at King Arthur Flour on July 7th. It is a Bread Bakers Guild of America Event but is open to non-guild members. Details are available on their website: http://www.bbga.org/calendar.htmlSusanfnp	I am reading his book now - I am reading his book now - so far it's pretty good, with the interspersed story or philosophy on a topic. It could use a few more pictures but I like pictures.I hope to attend one of his classes later in the year. I am sure they are excellent..is there any feedback on his classes? SD Bak...
Pictures Needed In an effort to update my curriculum for my students I am in need of some pictures of bread. What I am looking for are traditional/artisinal bread pictures that show a standard look for bread. If I want to look at a Miche, baguette, pain de mei, etc it will show the traditional shape and score marks. I...	Do you bake bread yourself? Taking a little time to look over this site results in viewing lots of wonderful pictures. Excuse me for appearing rude but I have to wonder what you are willing to do in exchange for the effort, time and talent, these wonderful people have put into their pictures? --Mini Oven
Need help finding a thread I would appreciate any help finding a thread that had a dictionary of terms, that are used in baking. I have a pretty good idea what people are talking about but would like to check it against a reliable source. PS also if you can save a tread to a favorites place.Thanks, Graz	This glossary is listed This glossary is listed under the FAQ tab at the top. Is it the one you meant? If there's also a thread somewhere, I'd like to see it also.Hmmn, I can't get the link function so work, so here's the web address.http://www.thefreshloaf.com/faqs/glossary
Times review of "Good Bread is Back" Folks here might be interested in this articlehttp://tls.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,25351-2645701,00.html which is a review of a book on the history of French bread. Lots of info re commercial use of sourdough.	What is “Fermento-levain” ? Very interesting. I didn't realize that French bread had been sourdough, and I was aghast that the French would eat nearly a kilogram a day of white bread.At the end is a mention of “Fermento-levain” . Does anyone have any more information on this? (All of Google's references seem to be i...
Bread and dieting I'm back on the Weightwatcher's Core Plan, which allows me to eat all I want of a list of healthy foods -- lean meats, eggs, vegetables and fruits, and whole grains. Bread isn't on the list. Dang. However, I'm wondering how it is that I can eat all the couscous or kasha or rolled oats I want, but no b...	Weight loss w/o dieting Okay, at the risk of not being believed, I have noted over the past few months that I have been losing belly fat. A couple of weeks ago I had an insurance physical and the guy weighed me out at least 5 lbs lighter than usual. The only thing I have changed in my diet is that instead of eating sna...
A most excellent bread quote! I love this quote, which I found on the Foppish Baker blog (foppish-baker.blogspot.com, I think). The universal motto of bread lovers everywhere: “If thou tastest a crust of bread, thou tastest all the stars and all the heavens.” --Robert Browning	Another quote ... "There are people in the world so hungry, that God cannot appear to them except in the form of bread." Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948)
Kneading Question I've just been watching some online videos of kneading by hand and I think I may have been doing it incorrectly all this time. I've got the basic premise down but in all the videos the baker seems to be going much faster than I ever do. I do a VERY SLOW push away, fold over, 1/4 turn method. In the...	Hi, Jen, as long as your dough ends up rising and baking well, you aren't likely to be doing anything wrong. There's no reason to knead meditatively unless you want to, and you don't have to worry the dough on fast-forward either. I think people who handle dough a lot just get faster because they do it so much...remem...
Bread masks against Covid-19 I cannot think of anything I'd rather breathe through than a fresh slice of home baked bread! (Especially a spiced rye.) Wonderful! So wonderful! And what a great way to greet the day or anytime for that matter. If you know me, I'm up to something and thinking too much. Ah heck! Slic...	duplicate/deleted duplicate/deleted.
Jmonkey and TT----this is going to be good! and FUNNY I don't want to intrude in jmonkeys blog working with TT on the sourdough project so I just started a new forum. I burst out laughing when I came to The Fresh Loaf just now and saw TT's photo of his two empty mason jars standing at attention ready to roll. What a ho...	weavershouse Laughter is always best.........I have no doubt I will learn....but it will be fun.Glad to see you find interest, Im still trying to come up with a couple clever names for my two. The one I already have that I am trying to breath life into I shall call him squishy, and he shall be mine, and he shall be my...
Spam! Gosh, can we do nothing to stop the "People" spam? This is so annoying!(Look at me, a new member, already demanding things. New people, sheesh.) =)Katie in SC	Katie Katie, I think Floyd is traveling, so we may have to put up with this until he gets back with us, unless someone else has administrator privileges. Susan
Tech question for Floyd Hey Floyd,What do the white vs. red/orange highlights mean in the lefthand columns? For example, the list of online users shows some names in white, some in red/orange. No rush.Sue	Sue, I'm pretty sure the Sue, I'm pretty sure the orange links have been opened/read by you whereas the white links haven't been.
Swiss bread and flour A friend is visiting from Switzerland and she was making Zopf for our family. We successfully made the metric conversions (I double-checked!), but the dough was the consistency of clay. The only difference we could come to was the flour. Is anyone aware of the difference between Swiss white flo...	Swiss Flour Terri: You would need to ask your Swiss friend what number type of flour she uses in Switzerland. The numbers, which are a Swiss typing system widely used in Europe, but not in France or England) are related to how much husk of the grain remains in the flour after milling, so the smaller the number the li...
How about Toasters? We are bombarded on all sides with advertising for all kinds of kitchen gadgets and gear, but the toaster seems to have fallen by the wayside in more ways than one. Most toasters that we've had in the past 10 years have been, well, how to put this nicely...not very satisfying. In fact they've been...	Re: Toasters I can strongly recommend the Dualit 4-slice (I assume the 2-slice is similar) sold by King Arthur and others. It is built like a tank, has a strong mechanical lever and a spring that easily throws sandwich bread across the counter [ and onto the floor ;-( ], and not only do we always pull it out from und...
Using pictures I'm writing an article about bread, believe it or not. I am wondering what I need to do to use some of the pictures posted on this site. Thanks. Steph	If you are wanting to use If you are wanting to use pictures from specific posts I imagine you could ask the posters.
What lens do you use for bread pictures? Question: what lens are picture-posters here using to take their bread photos? I have been using our Canon A530 point-and-shoot digital, but I can't seem to get the right perspective on the bread. The A530 claims to have a "5.8 - 23.2mm" zoom lens, but I believe that the 35mm ...	Canon Power Shot A-80 I get better photos if I use the macro setting with Auto mode. No other changes. I zoom in or out as necessary. Sue
Travelling with a starter I'm now on the other side of the world (for me at least) visiting family and I was so happy to bring some of my starter that lately seems to be more active than before... so I dried some and I also made a small amount of very stiff starter to take in my suitcase - so far sounds good - but... n...	Yikes That is certainly not a good thought. Wow, I hope you get your luggage soon. I have to travel tomorrow and I'm dreading it. I am so worried about this very thing and although I'm not taking my starter (:o) I am not packing certain things I would love to take just in case they'd be lost. I hope at least you pu...
Floyd- How do I At the risk of sounding like a complete fool. Here I go. I went to my "My Account", then to "My Subscriptions", then to "Blogs", and I get this-- "You are not currently subscribed to any active blogs"Well, how do I subscribe to some peoples blogs?Or is this not what it is for?I know it may sound kinda ...	blog subscribing Something got lost in one of the upgrades. I got it back in, so now you'll see a "Subscribe blog" link on the bottom of someone's blog entry. There is also a "<" link that goes nowhere... I'm having a hard time figuring out where that is coming from. Note that subscribing to someone's blog means you'...
Floyd-search question Last night I was trying to find the NK SD bread that jmonkey posted and for the life if me I couldn't locate it. That got me thinking that if you made a suggestion and framework for all posting a recipe to include key words it would be a big improvement in the results. Maybe you could include a k...	Forgive me for breaking in... Sorry, Eric, et al., for not linking you. I must learn how to do that. It is on the No Knead Bread thread. Perhaps someone can bail me out here. Susan
Manhattan Meet-Up? I have been part of this community maybe three weeks now and have learned a lot, and have seen the results in my bread making. Do people meetup to look at and offer advice on each other's breads? I think I found an old thread that helps with an issue that I have with wet/shiny/gummy crumb, but I don'...	try putting Manhattan in the title. There are a handful of NYC bakers here. Try putting "Manhattan meet-up" in the title, to get their attention. Just edit this one, you don't need to create a new post.
How to prevent a tough skin on rising dough Hello all, thought I would see how all of you prevent that tough skin from forming on the final rise. I like the cooking oil spray and plastic wrap over the dough for the initial rise. For the final rise, I've seen recipes for a dry towl, damp towel, place in larger bowl wi...	Covering dough My loaves always rise covered first with plastic and then a dry towel laid over that. I used to use just a damp towel but the plastic works great. (I don't know if it would work with a high hydration dough- I don't go there.) I use the towel to seal it. For the first rise I slip the whole bowl in a plast...
uploding photos HI there, I am still having difficulty with uploading phtos. I manage to upload one in 10, no idea why the rest are not able to be uploaded.My signature line is still the first line in the body box and I have to erase it continually....anyone else experiencing this?	Delete your signature from Delete your signature from your profile and it won't be a problem. I'm not sure what to tell you about photo uploading. If it works once, it should work again if you follow the same steps to a T.
Videos I found a link to some neat instructional type videos on a number of shaping techniques so I did a search to see if it was already linked somewhere on this site but I didn't find any quickly so here it is:http://www.fornobravo.com/video/hearth_bread.html demegradhttp://www.demegrad.blogspot.com/	The blog link is showing The blog link is showing "page not found". I remember seeing those videos from fornobravo awhile back. It's a very good site. Thanks for the reminder.
Cooling source for desem in summer Hi, I'd be happy with a cheap way to keep the desem at 55 to 65 degrees. I'd be using one of those 5 day cooler things but would like a way to keep that temp range with a thermostat. I could assemble the components myself. Ron	cool place for desem Ron, do you have a basement? Do you live in a warm area of the country (for this time of year) or cool?I keep my starter in a crock buried in w.w. flour. Then when I mix up the bread dough, I keep it up here on the main floor during the winter, but when it starts getting hot out I let it rise in th...
Adobe Bake Ovens I am trying to get my act together and build an oven by dry stacking cement block up to waist height, fill the block perimeter with dirt, cap it with flat rock and then cover a damp sand model of my interior oven size with a first layer of good clay perhaps fire brick quality clay and then an insulatin...	How's this oven... I googled: alte brot ofen bau ...and came out with this:<cite> www.altea-info.com/leserservice-5.php?ID_leserservice=1093I was looking for a TV program that had shown how to build a wood burning oven for about ten 2 kg loaves. Still looking....Then I found this: <cite> http://traditionaloven.c...
Calvel on French Chef DVD This weekend I'm watching French Chef 2 DVDs from the library--what fun! Tonight I watched the "French bread episode" where Julia visits Raymond Calvel to get a demo on shaping and slashing baguettes. It's amazing how fast he shapes the dough. AND, he uses the lame "handle" with no razor bl...	Julia Don't you just love Julia Child? I'll have to see if my library has those DVDs, it would be a hoot as you say to watch her old shows. My father-in-law (a French chef) knew her and he said all the great French chefs he knew had the highest admiration for her (a real compliment in a field dominated by men, esp. Fre...
Cold and flu season Ok it's cold and flu season here in Ontario and I'm curious what others do when they get hit by colds and/or the flu? Home bakers and bakeries all apply.Do you cease all baking, wear protective apparatus (masks, gloves, etc), close up the bakery for a few days (or longer). Now being a small business...	aw! I hope you feel better aw! I hope you feel better soon! We all got hit last week too, and Floyd didn't do much baking during that time. None of us had any taste buds to enjoy anything much either though.
Why can't I see recent posts when there is an indication that an entry was posted 28 minutes ago? I was trying to read the recent posts for "Rustic Bread" entered by Floydm, and I did not see anything new on that topic. Is it because I have not set my settings correctly? I noticed that there is a selection for how ma...	New comments There are some new comments on the rustic bread thread. They are near the middle though, so you may just have missed them. Load the page and search for 2007 and you should find them.
I have softened water I have used softened water in my regular yeast bread for many years, now I read that sourdough doesn't like it. Why is that. My house plants do just fine.	softened water Water softening removes magnesium and calcium from your water. All microorganisms, including sourdough cultures, need some magnesium and calcium to grow, however, they may get enough from your softened water and flour, especially if you use whole wheat flour. If you have trouble, you can substitute mine...
SMELL!!! I heated some crab legs the other night in my oven. Now as I bake my bread, I'm smelling crab. Please tell me my bread isn't going to taste and smell like crab!!! Steph	Follow up please What did the bread taste like? I made a toco sauce in a pan and noticed a smell in it for a use or two but no real transfer.
Baking with "brewers yeast" in 20th century London I wonder if someone here can help me with some more information about this.My grandfather ran a bakery in Addiscombe, South London until the 1970s (approximately). (Consequently there is no tradition of baking bread in my family as bread just appeared, indeed when gran...	You would not be using stuff You would not be using stuff from the bottom of fermentation tank. That's lager yeast, and it's not suitable for making bread. Traditionally, the yeast was skimmed from the top, washed with water and then used bor baking, but by and large that practice was abandoned abouth 100 years befo...
Baking in a Soapstone Fireplace Has anyone tried to bake in their soapstone, like regular, fireplace?I could get mine to 300 degrees outside, don't know how hot it is inside but hotter and pull the coals out. It takes it 30 to 45 minutes to heat up and for ever to cool off but I don't know if it would be the correct te...	Re-enforced Cement Pipe I pulled an unused irrigation riser last year when my pipe broke that feeds it. It's just laying there. I was wondering if I could get my neighbor's backhoe and have him dump it by my house and I could use it for a base for a bread oven or, it has a 26 inch inside diameter, make an oven out of i...
Winter baking Usually when I find myself starting a question, "Is it just me, or...", it's just me! However, my problem I don't think is just me this time. So my question is this: While making three batches of bread this past week, I notice it takes much more flour to get a smooth dough. I knead the dough without a...	Re: recipes and weather > I asked Mum if they adjust the recipes for the> weather. She looked at me like I was mad? > There's the best answer. : -) Two points perhaps: if you weigh flour rather than measure it by volume that is going to compensate somewhat automatically for different moisture levels in the flour as t...
Starter AND Yeast? Could someone please explain why many recipes call for both sourdough starter AND commercial yeast? Is it to have a rising shortcut but the author wants a sourdough taste, or will the starter not last or support the dough, or is it something I haven't even considered? Thanks to anyone who can clea...	Starter and Yeast Susan, When commercial yeast is used in conjunction with starter, it speeds up the rise significantly, but also lessens the sourdough flavor. Just depends on what kind of characteristics you want your bread to have. I rarely add commercial yeast to sourdough bread, myself.
Preheating and other miscellaneous questions I'm about begin, yet again, to make my sourdough bread. I feel an aura of peace around me ;-D that I will have great success! I've read in many places to preheat the oven for about 30-40 minutes (again contrary to what S John says) with the bread stone in the oven. So wha...	Bread->Stone Sadears, When I bake directly on my stone I do one of two things. I shape my loaves and place them on parchment paper on a solid cutting-board (my fake peel)I cover my fake peel with corn meal, place the shaped loaves on the meal, and tip the peel to remove the excess corn meal. When I use the parchment I ...
How Do I Mail Bread? I have friends and relatives that want me to mail them my bread but I can not think of any convenient container for doing so. Has anyone tried this and know of a good way to do it. I just bought a computer and saved the styrofoam so maybe that would help with the safe packing material. Any sugge...	I've mailed Floyd's bread to my parents I have put breads that Floyd has made into paper bag, thrown that into a plastic grocery bag, and thrown that into a padded-with-newsprint box and mailed it next-day express mail to my family. It was just in a regular box! The trick was getting the breads baked on a day when a tr...
Kneading Is it possible to under-knead dough? Steph	Yeah, it's very possible. If Yeah, it's very possible. If you don't knead enough, the gluten will not develop properly, and you'll end up with a not-so-good loaf. I almost always use the window-pane test to see how well the gluten has developed.
Interesting website Found an interesting website: http://www.breadtopia.comThe guy who runs it has some very interesting videos that often cover several days (the videos are only a few minutes long) such as reconstituting dry starter. Very informative. Check it out.Steph	Interesting website Many thanks for the breadtopia.com site. Great info and the videos are super.Willard
Getting better at this I have just baked my 6th loaf of french bread, actually, it's a baguette recipe in the book "Bread - A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes", I shaped them into batards that resemble mishapen loaves. Pretty ugly, I need more practice in folding and shaping. The last 2 loaves were the best, ex...	Crust Not knowing your formula I can't offer a lot of help except to agree with the other poster regarding hydration. I use the pan of water trick for steam in my oven. I let the steam build for 5 min before I put the bread in, and I remove the steam pan after 15 min. I want a nice dry oven for the last 15 - 20 min ...
scoring device i would like to know the name of the scoring implement used by Floydm in his video (and the Coupe Batards video) so that I can order one, please	Scoring device My scoring device is called a lame. Mine is made from a double-edged razor (which can be found in the shaving section of any grocery store) threaded carefully onto a coffee stirrer stick (complimentary at Starbucks). That's it.
Visiting this site -- where do YOU start? First let me say that I love this website! People on the forums are friendly and helpful, and Floyd has done a great job of stuffing useful info into every nook and cranny. But that's my problem. There's so much to see that I have trouble finding it all. I know I'm not the ...	RSS feeds - via Firefox with Sage I keep up with the changing info on this site with RSS feeds. I use Firefox with the Sage extension to keep track of which new posts I've already read. When I run out of new postings and have extra time to kill I do check out the home page for the "Active Forum Topics" and "Recent Com...
Tartine and treatment of bakers Thought this would be of interest to folks here.Tartine Officially Comes Out Against Its Workers’ Unionization Effort:Apologies if its the wrong forum, but I learned a lot from the Tartine book and especially how skilled you must be to be a good baker. I also support the craft of baking ...	Sounds like they are about to Sounds like they are about to go under.
What kind of yeast? I'm contemplating switching from Active Dry Yeast to Instant Yeast. Any opinions? My preferred form of yeast is my sourdough starter, but for those things where a starter won't do I've always used Active Dry. My Active Dry jar has just run out and I've never used Instant Yeast, but it seems like it ...	Active dry vs. instant yeast Active dry yeast has a longer shelf life than instant yeast. That is the only compelling reason I know of to use it. To the best of my knowledge, most professional bakers switched over years ago. I know the bakery I worked in almost 20 years ago used nothing but instant yeast. It is stro...
Storing Bread I have a question for you all about how you store your bread. I usually just slice and freeze my bread, but I am starting on a food elimination diet for migraines that requires that homemade bread be at least one day old before eating. I don't have a breadbox and don't want to buy one, as I have a tiny E...	Thanks Rena. I don't make Thanks Rena. I don't make sourdough (and it's forbidden on this diet). I guess what you said would apply to regular bread as well? So, do you just leave it out uncovered for a day?
Article on 22-year-old running Poilane in Paris Interesting piece on Apollonia Poilane, daughter of the Poilane who founded and ran the hyper-famous eponymously named Poilane bakery in Paris. Her parents died a few years ago in a helicopter accident. She's now at Harvard and heir to the family business.Here's a link t...	Thanks, JMonkey for posting Thanks, JMonkey for posting the article. Good for her that she is keeping the tradition alive! There is a fromagerie here in Lux that has Poilâne bread delivered from Paris twice a week. It is, indeed, expensive, but you can get a miche that weighs 2kgs (the fromagerie will also cut the mi...
Do you pair? Since it seems that most of us are home bakers, I was wondering if you guys pair a bread with the meal your cooking that day? My wife laughs at me as I try to pick a bread that goes well with what I'm cooking, sort of like choosing a wine I guess. I love a sour rye with beef, a Vienna with Italian cookin...	to pair or not to pair Now that you mention it I, myself, don't go to such lenghts when I'm making bread. I'll usually end up finding an interesting recipe, bake the bread and usually just end up eating it as is or with butter of some other topping. However I think bread is a very large part of a meal that people don...
Help! How do I post a recipe? Okay, the truth is out. I don't understand anything about computers. I tried to post a recipe for Paddyscake, and the preview showed all the lines run together in one very long paragraph. Help! What did I do wrong? And more importantly, how do I correct it?	Posting a recipe Paste it in and I can fix it if I need to.
Throw another loaf on the barbie I'm still not ready to make the leap to a brick oven, but I decided to toy with baking on the barbeque today. I made up a cinnamon raisin cardamom bread to try out there. I used one of the 99 cent quarry tiles I picked up at Home Depot a while back. I should admit that I preheated ...	The look good but, Is this a The look good but, Is this a gas or charcoal barbie?Everytime I want to make bread on my barbie they get way too smokey
pies, tarts puff pastries I have been browsing a lot of pie, tart n stuffed pastry(is that what its called?????), puff pastry, ready roll dough etc. on the web most of them sweet n some with non-veg fillings. I am not well conversant with these food items and shall be thankfull if someone would take the time to elabora...	pastries I've never made mine sweet. Always no salt, a pinch of baking powder is salty enough. I let most fillings decide. I use quiche crust for most pies. Pie crust is usually mixed quickly with very little mixing and rolled into a ball. Roll out after 15 or 30 minutes rest. They are typically oil or shortning cr...
Flour types? Hello all! I am hoping someone can enlighten me on this point... I recently moved to Argentina, so I am trying to familiarize myself with the different baking ingredients available here. The flour here all seems to be classified with varying numbers of 0's. I must admit I didn't pay much attention to flour...	Thank you! Thanks manxman! The website is very informative...yes, my Spanish is improving...especially my recipe vocabulary, of course!!! It seems that I should probably use type 000 for most basic breads and type 0000 for finer things like pastries? And the "screw-up" charts will likely be very useful for me on a dai...
Refridgeration before baking I'm considering making the cinnamon raisin walnut bread from Bread Bakers Apprentice this weekend, but I'd like to make the dough Saturday night and then bake it first thing in the morning Sunday. Is there a certain amount of time you should wait after taking it out of the fridge before bak...	take off the chill If you are baking a loaf, the rule of thumb I've seen is to have the dough sit for two hours to 'take off the chill' or to stick a probe thermometer into the center and be sure it registers at minimum over 60F before baking (ideally over 70F). Retarding bagels in the fridge overnight and immediately ...
San Francisco Baking Institutue - experiences? Has anyone taken one of the 5-day workshops at the San Francisco Baking Institute? I was thinking of taking their "Artisan I" class and wasn't sure whether it was worth it. Any advice appreciated (including Bay Area alternatives that may be better). http://www.sfbi.com/w...	SF Institute My next door neighbor, who was an avid home baker, took that workshop and loved it. He is now working at an artisan bakery in town.
Bread denser and gummy at bottom of loaf? My loves of bread baked in loaf pans are getting better :). Something I see from time to time is that the horizontal bottom 10% of the loaf is denser, harder and sometimes even gummy. Why does that happen? I have been able to knead and make the bread without adding more flou...	Hi, I wonder could you Hi, I wonder could you perhaps be handling the dough a bit too roughly when sealing the seam underneath, thus creating an area of denser dough?I have only ever had gummy crumb when I have under baked, could your oven be baking unevenly? Or perhaps more heat underneath the bread, a hotter stone et...
[help] Cannot get 70% hydration dough to come together Hi all, I have an issue with any dough hydration over 60% coming together and developing gluten. I live in a relatively dry environment so I don't think there's a lot of moisture already in the flour.I have tried this with both bread flour (King arthur and costco's...	Curious There are only two reasons I can think of. Starting with the most obvious...1: A mistake in measurements. 2: Your expectations of what the dough should feel like so you over knead it trying to get it non sticky. A dough can be sticky and yet still strong. At 70% hydration many flours will still feel sticky but ...
The Physics of Stretch and Fold with a Video The video on YouTube 'Strongest Dough Lightest Crumb' is a demonstration of making large volume light weight light crumb loaves in under two hours. the science behind the video includes the 'outrageous' description of gluten as a mixture of two glues, one with a half life o...	Elasticity and Extensibility The “glues” you’re describing are glutenin and gliadin, to put names to faces.
Books on bread and baking science I’m looking for recommendation for books with the science of food, with a particular interest in baking, bread, and fermentation, as well as the effects of ingredients and heat. I have a fairly good understanding of chemistry, physics, and microbiology so I appreciate something with a ...	Myhrvold Nathan Myhrvold's Modernist Bread is science-based. I haven't read it, but it may be more recently published than those you list. It also more assertively balances theory with empirical practice.Tom
A Bread Symphony ... or, the Bread Ballet? Nice choreography, ChainBaker :)The beauty of breadmaking. - YouTubeMerry Christmas!dw	Fun! Thanks for the link, it struck just the right note! Merry Christmas to you, too.
How much weight is lost in baking? Is there a rule of thumb regarding how much weight is lost by baking? I know it will be mostly determined by how much moisture is present in the dough. I'd expect most or all of the moisture weight to be gone. Is that right? How much of everything can be expected to cook away? I'm jus...	Both It is ingredients and trial and error.A substantial part of the loss is actually due to yeasts making carbon dioxide.For my 100% rye I have a loss of 120g / kg finished weight.
Searching TFL It is pretty well known that you can use Google to search TFL with the site: term and perhaps get better hits that way.I've just discovered another variant of the Google search engine that lets you also list the results in date order which could be useful:https://programmablesearchengine.google.com/contro...	Great find. Thanks! I've been thinking of making a search page for TFL for use from my phone. On my Chromebook I use the "search engines" feature of Chrome so I can type tfl in the search bar and get a Google search. Now I can touch the bookmark on my phone home page to get to my TFL search page.
bread box our very old plastic bread box is cracked badly. Never much cared for it, but I would like something countertop for storage other than a paper bag.Just big enough for one loaf. I'm thinking wood. Anyone have one they like and recommend that isn't $200.If it matters, more for loaf type sammy breads not so m...	This? https://www.amazon.com/Kitchen-Discovery-Universal-Bread-Container/dp/B084HJLN4Z/ref=asc_df_B084HJLN4Z/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416645826693... this?
Spam Attack Maybe stating the obvious, but it looks like TFL is being heavily spammed at the moment!Lance	hi Lance i report it as soon hi Lance i report it as soon as i see it come up and being a good few hours timezone ahead it does help Floyd get it deleted pretty quickly especially if its being posted from this side of the globe.
Home processor permit in the US Wondering if anyone who has a home processor permit in the US uses a Rofco oven, we are interested in using a Rofco B40 but are unsure if that is considered commercial equipment, which is not allowed with this permit. We are also considering a 30 qt mixer in the future...Thanks!	This can vary from state to This can vary from state to state. Most want to have a UL listing for the product. This seems to have a CE listing, which is for Europe. "The CE marking (an acronym for the French “Conformite Europeenne”) certifies that a product has met EU health, safety, and environmental requirements, whi...

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