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Dough practically metled after bulk rise (possibly becuase of hot oven in the kitchen?)
Hi everyone, I was preparing a Pain de Campagne from FWSY which is at 78% hydration. The recipe calls for a long 5 hour fermentation with stretch and folds in the first two hours. The stretch and folds were going well and I could ev... | Most important two sentences in your write-up
"I really don't understand what happened. I was following the book to the letter".This looks like over fermentation to me. You've handled high hydration before with no issues so we can rule that out. So what's left is timing. Five hours for the starter/temperature is too lo... |
Sourdough Rye Crackers
Hi, longtime lurker, first time poster...Love rye bread? Love crackers? Hate throwing your unfed sourdough starter discards down the drain? Then I have a recipe for you!First, credit where credit is due, this is adapted (and much of the recipe copied directly) from the King Arthur Flour websi... | They look delicious
Thanks for posting that recipe. I prefer yours to the KA version I think.hester |
Refresh Starter vs Not Refreshed
Hope I make sense asking this.Typically I read to take some starter out of the fridge, then feed it and let it develop for 12- 24 hours on the counter before adding it to the remainder of ingredients.So I'm wondering, why not just take the starter out of the fridge and add it to all the... | A few things to take into account
1: You might not keep enough starter at any one time to use straight in a recipe. Many of us just keep a starter as a seed only and might only have 100g or less at any one time.2: Starters can be fickle things. Pre-fermenting part of a recipe, as in a levain, ensures you don't make a b... |
FWSY Levain Issue.. Help please!
Hello!I’ve been reading this forum for the past few weeks since I picked up Ken Forkish’s FWSY. I love the book and from the start successfully made every loaf of bread I’ve tried. When it comes to the Pure Levain breads, I’m failing miserably. I followed the recipe exactly, accounting ... | It took 14 for my new starter to stabilize.
Here are the tedious details:https://stanton-finley.com/weblog/sourdough-starter.html |
Another batch, more questions
Since I started to sourdough I have had a problem that I believe to be the development of gluten very early, before adding levain, which made the process of mixing the levain more difficult and broke the structure of gluten that formed, making it more difficult recover it. I always see eve... | Whenever flour is hydrated,
Whenever flour is hydrated, gluten will develop. Water mixed with flour will develop the gluten. No-Knead recipes rely upon it.Many bakers that specialize in extremel open crumb autolyse for hours. Trevor Wilson uses a pre-mix method (flour, water, & salt) and lets it go overnight. The autol... |
Why is my SD crust thinner and less crisp than I would like?
Hello, I've spent a lot of time on this forum in the past and learned a great deal. Coming back to see if I can get some comments on why my crust is a bit thinner than I would like and also softens up more than I would like after being out of the oven ... | Try baking low and slow, at
Try baking low and slow, at least the second part without steam. Or when baking is done, leave the loaf in the switched off oven with the door just a little open, so the bread cools slowly and any moisture from the surface keeps escaping. |
Can we test malted barley for diastatic enzymes?
It seems that beer brewers are not concerned or aware of the diastatic/non-diastatic properties of their malt. I assume it is of no consequence to them. Brew shops seem oblivious to the question. But for bread bakers it is a big deal!I used a small portion of cyrstal ma... | "It seems that beer brewers
"It seems that beer brewers are not concerned or aware of the diastatic/non-diastatic properties of their malt."What? Every brewing malt that has diastatic power has it reported, and brewers use them to check their grain bill so that the mash converts properly. Crystal malts, however, are ... |
Calculator to determine amount of mother starter to use?
I make a lot of sandwich bread for the kids, but most of the recipes on the internet only show fleischmann's jar active yeast. I would like to convert those recipes so I can use my mother starter instead of the fleischmann's jar yeast. Is there some kind of calc... | Have you tried a sourdough sandwich loaf recipe instead?
It would be easier to look for sourdough sandwich bread recipes since you'll need to alter your method along with the type of leavening you're using. These will also take into account the different qualities that sourdough will contribute to the loaf. There are l... |
My Weekend bake!!!
Hi, folksYes, been a couple of weeks since I am here. Still baking the the same sourdough bread. But this weekend, I did something difference....Jason's Quick Coccodrillo Ciabatta Bread. Sorry, this is not sourdough bread. I don't know where to posts. Apologies. Cheers Jon | Nice!
Your ciabatta looks great! Well done! |
Sourdough Starter - How To Know When Ready?
Hello,I made a sourdough starter at about two and a half weeks ago (i think the 18 of July) and it was pretty smooth. it's pretty hot where I live so it was the perfect (i think) conditions for it. It grew very nicely. I started it with whole wheat. It was 280g total. I fed i... | Which one is the levain?
I'm assuming it's the one on the left?Looks great to me. I'd use it. Take a teaspoon of the starter and gently drop it into a glass of water - does it float?If it does then that is a sure way to know it's ready.So what are you baking with it today? |
Bubbling mass in the banneton?
HiHave been trying pretty hard to get where I want to be with the sourdough. Novice assistance required please.Whatever the recipe and timings I seem to end up with a bubbling slack mass in the banneton which requires 'pouring' out onto the baking paper as its going into the oven.I've tr... | Need more info :-)
Adri,Bubbling mess! Sounds like fun. If it is bubbling, you are doing a lot of things right. For us to effectively help you do a post mortem, we need a bit more info:Recipe used measured in weightpictures of the bubbly mess are always helpfulDescription of your bread making process.Good Luck! |
Sourdough under-baked ?
My Sourdough comes up regularly nice and dark and crusty, but inside it seems damp and under-baked.Not wanting the crust to be burnt, would it help next time to reduce the oven temperature significantly and increase the baking time.But how much lower, and how much longer ? | I'd rather reduce the dough
I'd rather reduce the dough quantity.I bake at 240° for 20-30 mins loaves of ~350 grams and the result is always good |
Plastic Tubs for dough?
hi all fellow bakersi was wondering whether those based in uk could point me in the right direction of where to source large plastic tubs for my dough to bulk ferment in. I’m currently using big mixing bowls but the amount of dough I’m using now has out grown them. I can’t seem to find large rec... | Is 11 liters too small?
Is 11 liters too small? |
Why is my dough so slack after bulk fermentation
hi guys I’m new to fl and have been baking sourdough for about 2months. I’ve been getting good end results but always have a problem with my dough after bulk fermentation. The dough is always sticky and glossy looking. I made a batch last night (unfortunately never to a... | You have 80% hydration dough.
You have 80% hydration dough. Slack and sticky is what it should be. |
Overactive sourdough starter
Hi -Completely new at this sourdough starter business so forgive my ignorance.I’ve followed a starter recipe that called for 500 g bread flour (I used King Arthur), grated apple, and 370 ml water (I added a tiny bit more water because it seemed too sticky and gloopy) to be put in an airtigh... | That activity isn’t yeast or lab but other
types of bacteria that take over at first. Eventually, the pH drops and the yeast and beneficial bacteria establish themselves and you will have a starter that you can bake with. This usually takes around 20 days to 2 weeks. You were smart to pop the lid. It very well could ha... |
Shaping technique
A question about shaping, which seems to be underdiscussed on this forum and the stuff of the dark arts ("you need just the right sort of touch, not too hard, not too firm, degassing just slightly but not completely or not at all") - how does shaping technique influence the size of the bubbles in the ... | shaping?
I think it gets discussed quite a bit, and perhaps more than it deserves, IMO, as people focus on this element of skilled hand work, rather than everything else that goes into determining the structure of their loaves (and I've been there).In this case, it is impossible to divine a clear shaping error from the... |
Sourdough starters - Michael Ganzle
An interesting video from "the professor" at the JWU Bread Symposium 2021.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FNEQY_G2BIQuite long, but well worth a look - I will probably watch it again as there is a lot to digest.One important takeaway: if you refrigerate your starter (as most home ba... | Lance, I listened to some of
Lance, I listened to some of the video. I don’t doubt the scientific information of highly respected scientists/bakers. But here is my remembered experience with a consistent (2 years or more) counter fed starter (at time Brod & Taylor proofer) that was fed twice a day and that same starter... |
Hydration % Calculation
Hi there,I'm wondering whether people include levain flour and water into their calculations, when working out hydration levels. Assuming my levain is a mass of 100% just-fed starter; if I bake a loaf with 100g levain, 200g water, and 300g flour - do I have:a) 66.6% (200/300) x 100b) 71.4% (25... | Appreciated.
Thank you, Millstone, for the great links.So it is 'b'; case closed! |
Floating starter
Is it true that newly fed starter will float and that sam starter 7 hours later will sink?So in most cases when the recipe says make sure you have starter that floats it should be fed starter that has a chance to double in size?Thanks | Floating Starter
Catching a starter after it has been fed and it's producing enough gas to float. So a newly fed starter which has bubbled up and matured will/should float. If left too long and it's past its maturity then it won't float. What they mean in a recipe is a fed and active starter. Doubled is fine but peaked... |
Rookie Mistake
started a sourdough bread this morning. About 30 minutes before starting I fed my starter and for some stupid reason I mixed my starter with water and flour to autolyse for 30 minutes. Then I remembered I forgot to do the float test. At that time the starter wouldn’t have passed but in 2 to 3 hours it wo... | Rule of thumb
Watch the dough and not the clock. When was the last time you fed your starter before the levain build? What was the levain build?What's the recipe? |
Drying Starter to Store
Today I dried a bunch of starter to store in freezer just incase something happens to mine. It got me thinking of this question.I dry my starter I have had for 3 months. If I lose my starter I have two options1, Make a new wild starter2, Use the dried chips I made todayI was reading it takes at ... | No two starters are the same.
If you like this one, then you have insurance. If you don’t, then making a new one or reviving this one would be up to you. Still, reviving would be faster than starting a new one and it would be mature to boot. |
Second sourdough attempt - Improvement tips?
My second attempt was significantly better than the first (its actually pleasantly edible!), but I think I still have a ways to go to get the "perfect" loaf, so I'm back with photos for advice, thank you in advance! Starter recipe: https://www.theperfectloaf.com/7-easy-steps... | First off with new starter and SD baker
the crumb you got is pretty standard fare. It will get better with time. 2nd you do want LAB in your starter otherwise it is not a SD starter. The LAB i(lactic Acid Bacteria) s what makes the acid that makes the dough sour and the yeast ,in this symbiotic culture, is what make... |
Anyone use Bulk Barn bread flour for sourdough in Canada?
I live in Victoria and the only bread flour I can find is Robin hood and flour from Bulk Barn. On their website it said the bread flour is unbleached but in the store it just said bread flour. This is my first time using Bulk Barn's bread flour but during the mi... | Did you happen to notice if
Did you happen to notice if there was one of those pull-off ingredient papers on the bin? I’ve bought some from bulk barn years ago but back then I was using a bread maker so I didn’t have as much hands on experience with the dough... Here in Ottawa I’ve found Loblaws (probably Superstore in... |
Relationship of Gluten Strength to Extreme Open Crumb
I have been spending time (metaphorically) together in Joze’s, aka “joc1954”, kitchen. Isn’t it amazing how we can time travel between the Southern United States and Slovenia in an instant? I’ve never flown on a plane, but have made friends the world over. I love th... | you might want to kick this newbie for this, but...
I wonder what this would mean on a molecular level, "gluten that is strong enough to contain the gasses but also weak enough to allow the alveoli to expand", since gluten is basically (if I understand correctly) a somewhat organized cross-linking, using relatively wea... |
Left sourdough starter in fridge for weeks, now the liquid on top is black
Excuse the terrible photo, only the front camera on my phone works and the screen is also cracked to hell and back.Title sums it up. It's been unfed for about 3 weeks. I've read that the liquid on top is hooch and that it's ok if it turns grey o... | What does it smell like?
Pour off the hooch. Skim off the top layer of starter. Find some health(ier) starter underneath. Take a teaspoon and in a clean jar give it a good feed. If it responds well then you're fine. There's no mould (red mould to be particularly wary of) and if it has died then it won't respond well to... |
Fine vs Coarse Ground Flour
If baking the same hearth loaf with the same flour but one loaf uses a super-fine grind while the other uses a relatively more coarse grind, the former will soak up more moisture over a shorter amount of time. Is gluten network development affected? Is the fine-grind likely to have a more op... | Experiment
Why not do a side by side comparison, with pictures, and post it here?I know very good professional bakers who claim that granulation makes a big difference in getting nice crumb structure in whole grain breads...and my experience supports that, but I have yet to do a well designed comparison. |
Little oven spring and soft crust
I tried a recipe in a sourdough book today with a bit more advanced techniques than I've used before. First time making a levain, retarding in fridge and putting a cold dough straight in the oven.The bread didn't get too much oven spring, which was kind of expected since many of the pi... | moisture
Your crumb looks quite nice. Try backing in a dutch oven to improve your crust. |
Why crumb colour variation?
Hi,I run a support group for Australian sourdough bakers and this question from a member has me stumped. Why has the crumb in this loaf come out with two different colours. No blending of different flours, all the same flour and it looks well incorporated re starter etc, no leaching from som... | Hi Fergie51i don't know what
Hi Fergie51i don't know what part of Australia you are from as your Avatar doesn't give any details!I am in Perth and i too noticed this in my bake yesterday. My bake was a semi sour dough where i used sour dough starter surplus in a mixture , being treated as a component rather than the ... |
3rd loaf attempt still going wrong :(
3rd attempt and it's still going the same! All my loaves look like flat discs and have crumb separation at the top, you can see the pyramid shape too where I 'slashed' it (with scissors, no razor blade), and it collapsed. This is after I've taken lovely advice from a previous post ... | That doesn't look over-fermented
The recipe is relatively high hydration (91% if no water is held back), which is more typical of ciabatta or focaccia than it is for a hearth loaf. Maurizio notes that this is a very wet dough and suggests that not all of the water be used if the dough shows signs of being too wet. The... |
Please help me with my method for mid week baking
Until this week I was making bread only on weekends, but now I'm trying to include a few batch during the week to be able to test and learn more.My working day is as follows:07:30 AM - 11:30 AM1:00 PM - 5:00 PMI tried the following method this week:Recipe:White flour - ... | Everything looks ok
I'd just tweak the method a tad and put the dough in the fridge at the bulk ferment stage when you would normally be shaping it. Then the next day when you have a few hours spare take it out of the fridge, shape, final proof then bake. |
Open crumb sourdough using bread machine?
HiI'm looking for techniques that will help me achieve an open crumb but using the bread machine for the kneading process. I want to offload as much work as possible to the machine whilst still achieving the open crumb.At the moment I'm experimenting with cold fermentations et... | There are probably many ways to tweak a recipe
But tweak too much and you'll probably lose the less hands on you want from a bread machine.How are you with stretch and folds? With less mixing and employing stretch and folds you'll get a more open crumb. However if you resort to this it might not be worth using the brea... |
Inspired by Pane Cafone
Using the following pane cafone recipe in the video below I adapted it for yeast water, changed the flours a tad and added pumpkin seeds and ended up with a delicious loaf I thought I'd share. It's low hydration, coming in at around 65%, but unless it's unworkable for you then I'd say bear with ... | Looks Nice Outside -- What is the Crumb Like?
Abe, that looks fabulous. Does your crumb resemble the one from the video? |
Reproduction Rates of LAB to Yeast (Revisit Please)
Can we revisit this chart? Dab introduced this a few years back. Assuming this is accurate, the data below is vital to sourdough flavor. Especially for those who have the equipment to accurately maintain constant temperatures.Question 1 - I am revealing my ignorance; ... | No. Let's not. Can we erase
No. Let's not. Can we erase this chart? "vital to sourdough flavor"That's absurd! Dan. Focusing on this will not help you to make better bread in any way.Q1. No and no. L. SF1 and L. SF2 represnt different strains of L. sanfranciscensis.Q2. Because whomever created this table decided to just... |
100% WG. Fresh-milled. Red Fife and Rye. No structure, much bloom.
Apologies for the longer post but I'm really hoping to learn a lot from this one. 100% WG organic. 85% red fife, 15% rye. Fresh hand milled. No rest between mill and mix. 90% hydr. 10% prefermented red fife flour @ 100% hydr levain NMNF, 3x build at 32c... | I would say that
the bubbles in the bulk were from yeast not LAB, If you made the NMNF starter at 32 C then the LAB were favored over yeast 3 to 1. since you built the levain at that temperature the yeast were restricted ike it was 19 C but the LAB were crankingat a 3 to 1 rate.Since the levain was so small and the ye... |
The batch that makes it worth all the reading time
Yesterday I got the result that made me happier until today. Bread 100% white flour, 68% hydration, 2% salt, 10% levain at 100% hydration. I mixed flour and water, thirty minutes later I added the levain and 30 minutes later the salt. Rubaud for about 10 minutes. Bulk ... | Great
Looks great!! Patience is required, especially for sourdough.Ford |
Saccharomyces boulardii
Saccharomyces cerevisiae is used for Baker's Yeast and is actually very common in our sourdough starters too. I'm wondering about the benefits in using over the counter probiotics like Saccharomyces boulardii for baking bread whether using it as a straight swap, making a poolish or even adding s... | Flavor Comes from Acids and other Metabolites
I don't think yeast produces as much flavor as the bacteria in SD starters. Yeast will drive metabolism to CO2 which of course is necessary for bread rise. One reference I saw states that S. boulardii is a simple variant of S. cerevisae with 99% of the genome in common be... |
Poke test for cold dough?
Is the poke test as reliable for cold doughs as it is for room temperature doughs? Or maybe a better question to ask is whether the response you look for during the poke test is different for cold doughs vs. room temperature doughs?Most of the time, I cold retard dough during the bulk fermenta... | Good question and the answer
Good question and the answer is not so easy. Experience is your best guide here, that is, knowing that when you put a particular dough in the refrigerator, when it is at a particular stage of fermentation, that it will be ready to bake at a particular time. Poking cold dough does work, so... |
Delayed steps in BF / proofing
If I slow down the fermentation process either by a lower room temperature or less % starter in dough , Then Do I have to retard the steps also ? Since the BF would take more time to develop Do I have to space my S&F longer than the every 30 minutes recommended ? Let’s say the BF take... | the easiest way to look at it
the easiest way to look at it is like so (even though im not giving you a definitive answer). The S + F help strengthen the dough during bulk. Some people like doing lots of strengthening during bulk, others during mixing others not at all. like kneading S+F accelerates gluten development.... |
I thought I had it..
So I've been slowly plodding along on my sourdough journey, have gotten a few decent bakes in so far. But one thing I struggle with is getting a proper rise - my best examples are still rather round and not exactly tall, like thisI can hardly get the massive ears I see all over the forum. I've trie... | Sorry to hear about your
Sorry to hear about your troubles. Maybe you have 2 oven proof vessels that you can use to bake in. Find a pair that can seal when placed together. Pots, pyrex, anything of that sort.Baking stones don’t have to be dedicated stones. You can use fire brick, I think one master baker uses a peice o... |
Flourless Sourdough Starters
We've been discussing flourless starters of various kinds in another thread and Mariana brought up flourless sourdough starters. I'm going to move the discussion over here so I don't have to keep searching for her comments.First I'll quote comments from Mariana.I prefer other flour based so... | More details
Mariana asked: Please tell me at what temperature did it triple in 8hrs.80F.Was it ww bread flour (i.e. capable of rising very high at 100%hydration)?King Arthur White Whole Wheat, 12.7% protein.Was tripling its max volume or did you let it rise further?That's how far it got before I put it in the fridge, ... |
Baking with natural wild yeast water (not sourdough)
Hi, everyone.I'm new to this site and have a question.This sled is about capturing wild yeast and bake with it, right?It seems like people are making sourdough starter and baking sourdough bread.Is anybody baking non-sourdough with fresh fruit yeast (or dried fruits ... | Interested
Yes, wao, I'm very interested in this, I love to ferment things...I make & use kefir on a regular basis & I'm an avid bread baker...I've tried sourdough several times with no real success. I am so inspired...I've already begun to soak my dried blueberries & cranberries...tomorrow I'll get some raisins...Tha... |
Feeding starter
i have been feeding my starter every morning for months. I want to slow down my feeding cycle.how often do I have to feed my starter if I leave it on the counter? how often do I have to feed my starter if I leave it in the fridge?i am trying to figure out a good routine while keeping my starter strong. ... | Baking Schedule?
How often do you bake?Also, if you do a search on TFL, you will find a lot of posts regarding various feeding patterns for starters. |
100% whole grain. Fresh milled. Red fife and Rye.
I'm going to list some granular details for the learning process and feedback.100% fresh-milled, organic, whole grain. 85% Red fife. 15% Rye. 10% fermented flour. Red Fife, NMNF starter, 3 refreshes, 36 hour fridge retard. 100% hydr.85% hydration dough.1.8% sea salt.Fin... | Nice loaf. I have never used
Nice loaf. I have never used red fife, so can't help with much of the questions. If you want to know the water loss from the SL & F, just weigh it before you start S L & F and weigh it again when you are done.Looks like a perfect openness for sandwiches or spreading butter. In terms of... |
I Wish It Were That Difficult
I've been attempting sourdough for years. In my Internet reading I can say I learned everything. And it's not easy. And I wish it were as difficult to make sourdough bread as everything I read made it out to be as I would be able to say I made at least one decent loaf. Alas...I've come to ... | Donica, don’t shoot yourself!
Donica, don’t shoot yourself! Save your ammunition for an enemy. ;-)My experience has been quite different from yours. Almost every bit of my knowledge Ikve learned through the years have come from reading. Either books, forums, or YEP good old Google.Is there a specific problem you are wo... |
Ambient to Retarded switch
I'm basically using Vanessa Kimbell's book to get going with baking sourdough. She provides rough timings for ambient and retarded methods.Is there any reason why I can't start off with the ambient method and switch at the end of bulk fermentation to retarded method i.e. pop it in the fridge ... | I'm not familiar with the method you're
trying, but typically I bulk ferment my loaves at room (ambient?) temp, retard the shaped loaf overnight and bake straight from the fridge. Plenty of bakers retard the dough at some point during the bulk fermentation, let it warm up in the morning, shape and then bake. Hope this ... |
Banneton too long for Dutch oven
Hi, I'm in the process of making my first sourdough loaf...first time using a banneton...and a Dutch oven...and sourdough starter. It has "fail" written on it front to back haha.Levain is looking good, it's just been added to an autolysed mix, will be bulk fermenting soon and shaping la... | It's always something,
isn't it?While far from being an expert, here are a couple of thoughts:in my experience, even if the dough is shorter than the banneton, by the time it proves it will spread to fillif you have a pizza stone, your oblong vessel might work if it's got handles and you're fairly confident that you'll... |
More Naturally Leavened Pizza Problems
Hey All,A while ago, I was having issues with my pizza dough balls flattening out. Now, I have issues with my naturally leavened pizza dough getting rise in the oven and getting crisp on the bottom. My starter is fed at 20% inoculation every 12 hours using cool tap water and kept ... | Pizza
My fermentation has been as follows - 3 to 3.5 hours in bulk with folds every 45 minutes, ball, 2 hour room temp ball proof, then retard in fridge. This part of your process is definitely a problem. Pizza dough processing doesn't include bulk fermentation as such. Most importantly the dough should not be puffy / ... |
How to get double ears with a single cut
I have searched high and low looking for info about “double ears” with a single score. Our pal, Solano produced a beautiful example. I took this image from one of his post.I assume it is a straight, 90 degree cut. I would love to know how to produce these ears.Dan | Good question Dan...
and I seem to be a bit hit and miss on those! I am happy with any ear and not to overproof my loaves!!!I think a sideway cut gets you the beautiful one ear type of 'half moon' loaf in the middle at least that's what I thought I was doing. Ru is extremely good on those and might have a recommendat... |
Sourdough starter fermenting too fast
Hi.I just started making my sourdough starter Last night. I fed it a few hours ago and it almost tripled in size within like 4 hours. It still smells bad and i know i can't use it. But at this rate, I'm afraid of leaving it on its container unattended and it pouring out of the cont... | How old is your starter?
If it's just a few days old, the sudden burst of activity is not yeast yet. It is from some undesirable bacteria and the bad smell that you mentioned likely confirms this.If that's the case, you do not want to feed it often. Activity will cease after some more time and what's happening is the b... |
A Community Bake & Italian Beer
Thank you to Dan for the wonderful idea of this community bake and Maurizio, from the perfect loaf, for the recipe here is my second attempt. Instead of 78% hydration (proceeded cautiously the first time) this is the original 86.4% hydration (I don't believe the malt is counted when calc... | 220g whole wheat flour220g bread flour380g Birra Moretti (330g for autolyse + 50g final dough)5g whole rye flour (instead of malt and added to make things balance)10g salt62g levainThis is the highest hydration dough I've done to date. Decided on slap and folds and it worked a treat. The gluten was strong and the dough... |
Panettone Troubleshooting
Hi everyone! This is my first post here, and I need to say that this forum has been such a huge resource for me in my bread baking endeavors. I'm hoping I might be able to get some help figuring out what went wrong with a panettone I recently made.Full disclosure: the recipe I used calls for y... | Osmotolerant yeast
Hi mirza,She uses osmotolerant instant yeast in all of her recipes, lean as in pizza and enriched as in croissants, sweetened and unsweetened, SAF Gold yeast, she links to it on amazon in her recipes, and that makes all the difference. The problem is that she does not link to it in every recipe and t... |
First Sourdough Attempt Post Mortem
I finally took the plunge and baked my first loaf yesterday, oh boy were there problems. The crust was lovely and crunchy and wonderful, the inside appears to not have risen at all, and I have a couple of theories as to why, but I would appreciate ideas on how to improve, so if you'v... | First things first
My oven too has a maximum temperature of 230°C and that's hot enough to bake bread with. I do have other issues with the oven I have but temperature isn't one of them.Please can you provide a brief history of your starter, recipe followed and if possible a crumb shot.This will be very helpful for tro... |
Last week's sourdough projects
This is a 40/60 white/wheat sourdough from the book "Classic Sourdoughs". This was our everyday/breakfast bread all week. I doubled the recipe and took out a quarter cup of the white flour and replaced it with milled flax. Also, did water instead of milk because we were running low. I've ... | Your pan bread and pizza
Your pan bread and pizza looks smashing. I can see beautiful holes in thta pizza crust. AND baby likes it!Great job, looking forward to seeing what is in store for you next.DanYou’ll never regret the digital scale. No one I know has... |
Slowing down the entire process
Hi everyone,I have been baking bread for the last two years, over 200 loaves and 100 pizzas. I read Ken Forkish and dove headfirst into the dough. I absolutely love the way my food creations make people feel. It's so rewarding. I started experimenting with sourdough about three months ag... | Use of wine cooler
Suggest you type"wine cooler" (Include" ") into the search box top right. I recall a lot of posts from davidg618 and when I used that search term I did find his posts, but many contributions from other people who have had success with their wine coolers also appear when this phrase is used to search. |
Starter Ph remained at 5.6-5.8 after matured
Hi All, I'm new to this group, i have a question and would like to see if anyone can help..i have this starter for a couple of year.. and recently i noticed the starter doesnt smell "soury" or "vinegery" but instead, it's "sweet" smelling....so, the curiosity mode kicked in ... | how do you measure the pH of your starter?
I couldn’t get pH paper to work for me, so I’m just curious. |
Comparison of the starter with High amount of Bacteria VS Yeast
Hi All. Sorry for another new post.... recently i came across an topid of the bacteria VS yeast in SD starter OR (pasta madre).so, here is my quesiton.... how do we disgustish the two starter which: 1.) High amount of Bacteria - High amount of Lactic/Aceti... | An interesting question for sure
all I know is that if your starter has a lowish yeast population you won’t get a good rise, so a more dense crumb. your starter darn ipad locked up! so... to continue my thoughts if your starter has high % bacteria you will get the acid production (acetic or lactic?) but you must have ... |
The rate of starter/levain and it’s affect on LAB
I’d like to understand the following. I can’t seem to reconcile these 2 beliefs.1- If my starter gets too acidic, it can be remedied by a mega feed. A 1-10 ratio greatly reduces the acidity, at least according to smell and taste. The starter ferments 12 hr @ 76F.2- I ma... | Thoughts
Thanks for the question, I enjoyed learning while doing some research to support my suspicion.Making the following assumptions:There is nothing else in your SFSD that adds additional sour flavor.The 2% and 1-10 ratio (10%) sourdough seeds contain roughly the same percentage of acid.The sour tasting acid produc... |
1 dough for 3 loaves
Here's my weekend bake....Milk & Honey Sourdough Sandwich Bread. Recipe from https://www.homemadefoodjunkie.com/milk-and-honey-sourdough-sandwich-bread/ .The BF dough weighed over 2300 grams and I have only one bannetton. So I divided the dough into 3 pieces and one go into a bannetton, one more ... | Slice & Crumbs
Yippeeee....Cheers |
Dead Sourdough and Deflated Ego, Going to try Again
About a year ago, I made my own sourdough culture. I wasn't sure which wheat flour to use to start the culture, so I decided to start 3 cultures each with a different wheat flour. I ended up using King Arthur Whole Wheat, King Arthur Whole Organic Wheat, and a local w... | Take a look at this article
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/40918/no-muss-no-fuss-starterIt is used by many on the site and is a proven method. Dan |
More than you want to know about Labs and Yeast
Interesting research.http://aem.asm.org/content/64/7/2616.full#sec-11 | It is not more than I want to
It is not more than I want to know but it is far more than I am willing to decipher. If anyone is inclined to make a summary of this in English, it is a summary I would look forward to reading.Jeff |
Very thick ear
The last few loaves I’ve baked have come out of the oven with these suppppper thick ears. Any thoughts/advice? I have been making sourdough loaves for about 2 yrs and haven’t had this happen, but now it seems to be a bit of a trend in my kitchen. I read somewhere it could be under-fermented? Or perhaps I... | Is it possible you need a bit
Is it possible you need a bit more water in the dough? I think it can happen with underhydrated dough. Maybe now it's warmer and drier in your area? |
Best baking vessels
I don't have a cast iron dutch oven or a combo cooker so I started my sourdough experimenting with an oven-safe large stainless steel pot. It works OK but I'm not very popular for discolouring our expensive pot. If I'm to purchase something (or two of them, if they fit in the oven together) specific... | Depends
I am a fan of looking around and trying what is easily available-either in your cupboard or the local thrift store. But here is my opinion about the different pans:Cast iron-so useful for many different cooking techniques. Make sure the lid handle is heatproof for high heat. Also, the pan and lid are heavy to h... |
Rate my loaf. First 100% fresh milled whole wheat.
First time baking a 100% fresh milled, 100% whole wheat.Organic Canadian Red Fife whole wheat, ditto for starter with a 3x refresh fed mainly bran/germ.79% hydr. 9% prefermented flour, 100% hydr.40m AL.7 minutes slap and folds. 4 rounds of bowl folds every 30m during b... | First, I think the crumb
First, I think the crumb looks fine - how did it taste?I can't answer most of your questions, but I have tried refreshing starter at 92 F ( usually 3 1/2 hours to get airy ) in an attempt to boost the sour flavor of the final dough. |
Experiment with altus
I used my food processor to shred the hockey puck loaves into crumbs, then froze the crumbs. I attempted to use the crumbs in new loaves, per the altus technique. Mixed results.The directions I found said to wet the crumbs, then squeeze out the water. OK, that must be to prevent the crumbs from su... | I've never done an altus
and I wonder what it brings to the bread. I would be tempted to hold some water back for the very reason you've just explained.Looks good. Would you recommend it? |
Classroom Session #2
Another classroom session, looking for some education from Fresh Loafers. Is this correct? If some bakers look for about a 100% dough size increase in bulk and others (like CR et al.) are looking for a 25% increase, are the latter desiring a less sour flavour and thus the reduced bulk ferment time?... | I can't help with a number of
I can't help with a number of your questions, but3. I have read reports that nutritional benefits degrade a quickly as 24 to 48 hours after milling, though other suggest that can be prolonged by storage in a refrigerator or freezer. I have not seen anything on sealing the container4 I ... |
Fruit yeast water..help please
i have jumped head first into fruit yeast water, and I have a few questions.1. Can the fruit be used? I have a green tomato YW and I am not sure if I shout toss the fruit or cook it...2. I keep my sourdough starter out all the time. it never goes into the fridge, and I feed it usually twi... | A few suggestions
my apple yw is about 6 yrs old so i have a lot of success with it. 1) in my experience after the 7-10 days the fruit has been in the YW it tastes terrible and should be tossed. All the flavor and sugars are depleted. 2) i never keep my SD or my YW out 24/7. My SD is about 10 yrs old and lives in the f... |
active starters and feeding ratios
Hi there, I hope my train of thought here make sense.Assume: - fixed temp (TBD) - 100% hydration starter - doubles in 12 hoursQuestions:1. What is a target feeding ratio that will confirm the starter is strong enough to build a bread?2. What is the minimal feeding ratio that will yiel... | Here is what worked for me
Here is what worked for me:getting started:1 cup whole wheat flour1/2 cup watermix and let stand for 24 hours Feeding:1 cup flour (3/4 AP white flour 1/4 cup whole wheat flour4oz of previous starter1/2 cup of waterfeed every 24 hours.This has worked for me and have had my starter going for al... |
Should I? Tangzhang...
I am baking the White Sandwich Sourdough Bread tomorrow again, should I tangzhong this recipe? Like Mini said "Using 5% of the flour is a starting point ( with 5x water)". So 5% should include the total flour used for the dough? Cheers, Jon | Yes
You take 5% from the total flourand 5x it's weight in water from the total waterFor example:500g bread flour350g water9g salt3.5g dried yeast5% of 500g = 25g flour5x 25g = 125g waterNow the recipe re-arranged:475g bread flour [500g - 25g for the tangzhong]225g water [350g - 125g for the tangzhong]9g salt3.5g dried ... |
MC Bake.....
I am on medical leave today, so.......a White Sandwich Sourdough loaf, recipe is from Susan, The Wid Yeast.... Lesson I learn today, while baking two loaf at the same time I need to keep reposition the loaf so that all the four side get bake equally, I guess you can tell from the pics above.Cheers , Jon | Jon you are a gifted baker!
Jon you are a gifted baker! You’ve come so far in such a short time.DanHave you heard of Tangzhong? It would be a nice addition to your sandwich bread. If you are not familiar search the forum for the technique. If you have any questions give us a shout. |
How to revive a year-old, dormant starter?
Hi, all, If you have not fed your 100% hydration starter for a year but it still smells and looks healthy, what ratio of flour would you use in the first and subsequent builds to refresh it? Please state the reason(s) for using such ratio. And how do you determine whether you... | Key word: build
I would use. 1:1:1 ratio of starter,water flour and small amounts 5 to 10 g each and return the old starter back to the fridge. The trick is to build and not discard over the next feedings until the yeasts have made themselves known. (Dormant yeast varieties may take days to wake up and you wouldn't w... |
First loaf from home milled flour. First loaf with red fife and rye.
First loaf with my new Grainmaker mill and locally sourced organic berries. This loaf is 50% red fife; 20% rye; 30% Bob's Mill Artisan Bread Flour. 11% prefermented rye flour. 78% hydration. 40 min AL. 3 hour bulk. 40 min counter proof then 19 hour fr... | Both the mill and the bread
Both the mill and the bread looks pretty darn good to me!Dan |
Different hydration
Do I have to compensate when using whole wheat flour compared to white flour in my starter?. For example I used 30 grams of starter 16 G of water and 16 G of flour. My second feeding I use 30 grams of flour and 30 grams of water. My third feeding is 60 G of flour in 60 G of water. And my last feedin... | Nope! You just want to treat
Nope! You just want to treat the whole wheat like you would any other flour for your starter. In fact if you take your starter and start feeding it only whole wheat after a few feedings you will actually convert the whole thing to a whole wheat starter. Flour is food and you might find out ... |
Can i create wild yeast from other produce?
Hi everyone! ?First time poster, long time lurker. I gotta say, finding this place was like finding the holy Grail. So much knowledge and information! I can only hope to become half as good as other home bakers here.Anyways! Let me elaborate - up until now i created yeasted w... | YW sources
Yes, one can start YW from an almost infinite variety of more and less biological sources. Tea is popular. Beets would be interesting. The most active one I ever made came from crabapples I rescued from branches I had pruned off our trees one year. Yeast are everywhere. You could probably get an active cultu... |
Finding time for a midweek bake
This bake drew inspiration from a few places and morphed into a unique recipe of it's own to fit around my timetable. Started off as a Tartine Country loaf. Swapped the whole wheat for spelt. The levain was mixed the night before and refrigerated so I could take it out of the fridge come... | Flour 100%Water 65%Salt 1.82% Levain Build: [two days before bake @ 8:40pm]1 tsp starter (70% hydration whole rye)50g water25g bread flour25g whole spelt flourBuilt and refrigerated the night before. Taken out the fridge at 6:20am and used 9:20pm. Recipe:328g bread flour (82%)48g whole spelt flour (12%)24g whole rye ... |
My loaf was overproofed?
Hi everyone! This is my third attempt and the best loaf so far. May I have your critique on the crumb and scoring? Why did my score sort of "sank" into the loaf? The crumb is soft and tastes good, but are there signs of being overproofed/underproofed in the big holes and dense patches? Some big... | The dough looks a bit
The dough looks underfermented, although your final proof might have gone on a bit too long, resulting in poor opening of the cuts. The sinking of the scores is usually a sign that you held the blade too flat when cutting.Six hours of BF seems like it would have done a better job of aerating the d... |
Noobie question about flour
Hi all, I am brand new to the joys of bread baking. I have been growing a starter for the past 7 days made with rye flour and water.Yesterday I attempted my first loaf which didn't finish up too well. It looked the part, but inside was thick and stodgy with a very doughy look and bite to it.... | Hello Krusty One
Spelt used as 100% of your flour is doable, but not something to attempt in the beginning stages of learning. That bread would be very challenging for many experienced bakers. Spelt makes a weak dough, especially when used at high percentages.If your starter is active and ready to bake, we have a recip... |
Please help me devise a recipe for such a time table...
1: Morning... Build a levain2: Evening... Mix the dough and refrigerate3: Next Morning... Stretch and Fold then back in the fridge4: Next Evening... Shape, short(ish) proof and bake. About 80% bread flour + 20% whole-wheat, whole spelt or some other wholegrain. S... | Overnight Autolyse?
Is number 2 a shaggy mix for an overnight autolyse? (When does salt enter the picture? Number 3?)For number 3 is it a single stretch-and-fold? |
What do these loaves tell you?
Both were made using the same method. White flour, 68% total hydration, levain 100% hydration, 1kg of total bread dough each, 12g of salt. I mixed the water with flour and salt and left it on the counter. 2 hours later I added the levain that was on top, more than doubled in size, mixed w... | I beg to differ.
If you like the second-baked loaf better, hey, it's your bread.However, the first-baked has better crust coloration, better oven spring and better bloom, not to mention a better ear.The second-baked is the opposite. It is slightly over-proofed, as the cause. Now, the crumb is more open. That could be f... |
Flo's original 1,2,3 post
Since the "1,2,3" formulation has been getting some airplay recently, via DanAyo's re-post of dab's 1,2,3, I thought it appropriate that credit be given to Flo Makanai, lest she be forever forgotten, who introduced the original 1,2,3 to Fresh Loaf almost 10 years ago.Here's the link (Thank You... | Indeed!
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/411377#comment-411377https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://makanaibio.com/2008/10/123-pain-au-levain-une-formule-qui.html&prev=search |
Starter question
I have a lovely, healthy starter that's about... maybe four weeks old, now. I wish I'd actually recorded the date I got it going. Anyway, it's 100% hydration, very bubble and robust, and easily doubles w/in 8-12 hours after every feeding. It's spent some time in the fridge and has come back beautifully... | Post some images of the
Post some images of the starter. It’s difficult to know without more info.What brand flour are you using now and what brand/type flour was it fed before? If the consistency is thicker now, and your feed ratios have remained the same, it may be that your new flour has a higher protein content. It... |
Sourdough Library
How did I miss that the Puratos Center for Bread Flavour had opened a sourdough library in Saint-Vith (Belgium) a few years ago? I don't know how, and I performed a search here and didn't find anything so here is the YouTube link in case you're interested in learning more about the library.https://you... | It's here somewhere
I heard of it, here on TFL, a few years ago. If you search "Puratos" you will find references to it. Not much under "sourdough library.Sorry-gotta go out the door-STRAWBERRY PICKING DAY!! Yay! |
Tip - Refrigerated SD makes great daily rolls
Make a SD as you usually would. After the BF put the dough in the frig. When you want rolls in the morning remove some dough right before bed and roll into rounds the size of golf balls. Put them in an oiled pan and cover with plastic wrap and leave out in a cool place. In ... | I'm going to do this this
I'm going to do this this week. Will add raisins and walnuts too. Good idea. |
Sourdough over fermenting too fast since I started using a new flour.
Hello again guys,I have been having problems with over fermentation since I used this new high extraction flour. It's the organic sifted red spring wheat flour from a place called the Flourist.com in B.C. During bulk fermentation, it doesn't have tho... | Could you please share some
Could you please share some pictures, in particular of the crumb? |
Overproofed
I baked my first ever hockey puck. Two hockey pucks. I think I might have over-done it with the French folds in hot weather. The autolyzed flour and the starter were not melding well, so I did five stretch and folds. 25 minutes between each. In hot weather. Over-proofed? They just did not rise at all in the... | I use old bread all the time!
I use old bread all the time! Altus I think it's called. I make crumbs of the bread, crust as well if my processer can take it. I freeze them until I'm ready. Normally I use 20% in a loaf, they offer an amazing taste to a regular loaf. This week I added Altus from a failed rye loaf I ... |
My Weekend Bake!!!
Hello, folksHope everyone here is doing well. Here's my weekend bake......1. SJSB... Getting a little better than last bake. I have reduced hydration by 5% and the dough is more manageable but the crumb was not as open as last bake. 2. From Ken Forkish, FWSY, Ovenight Country Brown, quite pleas... | Lovely, Lovely, Lovely
Well that was certainly a successful, and no doubt very satisfying, weekend bake.Baguettes and Bread loaf look very nice with good oven spring and crumb.Your pizza has just made me crave some. |
Do I need a psychiatrist??
Ha, I can't believe I am having a hard time removing some starter to feed... Today I caught myself getting anxious over what I was going to do with the excess starter. I guess I'll get better as time goes on. Tomorrow will be day 9 of my starter. I can't wait to give it a try. | Depends ...
Have you given it a name yet? :) |
Re-starting Starter with regular wheat?
Okay, so long story short I had an all rye starter that was going well. I got pregnant and couldn't stand anything sour (among other food aversions) so I got rid of it since I didn't know how to preserve it. Well, I'm trying again and my open rye flour expired last February, and ... | Restart
I am an inexperienced (to put it charitably) sourdough bread maker, but my starter goes great guns with King Arthur whole wheat as its source of food, and I don't think it is stone ground. |
We need a good “first” SD recipe
How many times have we read from a new SD baker of the elaborate formula they have chosen to bake? I know that I’m certainly that kind of guy. Why waste time crawling when you can run? I can imagine me picking Dab’s most complicated formula, you know the one with 47 ingredients ;-)Pleas... | That was what Flo called the beauty of 1:2:3
On her French site she says that with 1 part 100% starter, 2 parts liquid and 3 parts flour and 2% salt, you were free to play with whatever liquids and whatever flours you wanted, you could retard or not, you could shape as you wanted. She does also specify to hold back a b... |
advice on my experiments please.....
hinew to bread/sourdough making and followed a mates recipe to get consistent loaves. recipe is.....500g strong white bread flour250g water10g salt300g 50/50 starteri believe thats a 60% hydrationmix them all up, knead for 10 mins, cover with shower cap for 2 hrs, shape into baton,... | Differences
First one is under fermented. Either a sluggish starter or at the bulk ferment stage.Second loaf looks very good to me. A big improvement. The bigger uneven holes are more down to shaping than anything else.Big difference between the two heading in the right direction. |
Question about baking in a dutch oven
All the recipes I see for SD here, and most everywhere else, call for the use of a cast iron combo cooker, which I don't have and definitely can't afford to buy right now. I might manage one as a birthday present or for Xmas, but so far I've just used my baking stone and a pan of w... | your MIL DO will do an excellent job
you can do it either way and you will be amazed at the result. I always try to find an alternative before I buy an expensive item. Combo cookers are very expensive here. I retrieved by old enamel steel roaster from hubby’s workshop, gave it a thorough cleanup and have been using i... |
Bleached or unbleached for starter? All-purpose or bread flour?
After reading Brave Tart by Stella Parks, I've decided that my default all-purpose flour will be Gold Medal bleached (unless a recipe specifies a particular flour). But what about sourdough? Does it make a difference whether a starter is maintained with bl... | Definitely no bleached flour!
for sourdough you want to go with unbleached flour. I would stay away from bleached flour - it is not even an option where I live, all our flour is unbleached.Leslie |
Bad yeast mother? Starter problems.
I began growing my starter a few weeks ago1/2 cup of water + 1/2 cup and two tablespoons of flour added daily to half a cup of starter. I live in a warm climate so I just kept it in a lidded tupperware box on the counter. After the first 5 days I had an amazingly bubbly frothy starte... | Gretchen, I’m not too
Gretchen, I’m not too familiar with starters that are refrigerated. I’m sure others that are will reply that are. A cup of water weighs roughly twice as much as a cup of flour. Your starter is very wet. A wet soupy starter will bubble but not rise. Maybe you could try this take a small amount of y... |
Young levain versus old in leaven power.
Speaking in generalities, if the whole grain starter is a dependable, active culture but its sat out at an approximate 20o room temp for 12 hours after feeding and has diminished in size, it will still leaven dough but will the gluten structure of the final dough be much affecte... | Blue, I’m not sure I
Blue, I’m not sure I understand the first portion of your post. But ironically Lechem, aka Abe is interested in a somewhat similar subject. I suspect your question and his will have ties to one another. We spoke a few hours ago about the affects of a young Levain vs. a mature Levain. He is wonderin... |
Crazy oven spring
This is the most massive oven spring I've ever gotten. How did the lid not get in the way! | IMG_3896.HEIC_.jpeg
IMG_3896.HEIC_.jpeg |
Sourdough starter help please!
I've been following thekitchn's sourdough starter recipe - 4 oz ap flour + 4 oz water daily for 4 days, and should be ready to use on day 5. Day 2 it smelt like vomit, but I forged ahead, and day 3 it smelt like nail varnish, so I thought I was getting somewhere. Day 4 it had a layer of w... | Carry on
You're doing fine. What a recipe cannot tell you is a definite time your starter will mature. Your starter has gone from a normal, but not so nice, leuconostoc stage and has gone through the usual changes. It's now beginning by to smell like yoghurt which is certainly an improvement from day 2. And since yoghu... |
First bake with rye. Feedback please and outstanding questions.
500g flour weight. 25% rye. 45% organic sprouted Anita's ww. 25% Bob's bread flour. 78% hydr. 16% fermented flour. 100% hydration. 1.8% salt. 45m autolyse. 2:45m bulk. 25m bench-rest. 30m counter proof. 19hr retard at 3c. Baked cold, preheated DO at 475 fo... | Nice Loaf
Overall looks like a nice loaf that was well-baked."1. Any thoughts on my process?"Somewhere during the bulk fermentation I assume you included some stretch-and-fold sessions."2. What could I tweak for more complex, pronounced flavour?"How do you maintain your starter? Lowering the hydration can impact the f... |
Sourdough beginner
Been having a difficult time making a good sourdough bread. Made a wild yeasts starter 5 days old. Very active. I used the following recipe:Sour dough Starter & BreadDay 150 grams of wheat flour50 grams water12 hours later50 grams of wheat flour50 grams waterFor the next 5 to 7 days50 grams of wheat ... | I am guessing that your starter is not yet ready
5 days is a very young starter, with possibly higher nos of lactobacilli than yeast. you need the yeast population good and strong to leaven your bread. Keep feeding for a few more days and once it is reliably doubling within 6-8 hours try again. |
How does aging SD increase flavor?
The longer I wait (up to staling) to eat my SD, the better (more intense) the flavor. Can someone explain how and why this works?I also smokes cheese and it works the same way. Just smoked cheese is not half as good as smoked cheese that is eaten days or more later.Dan | .
I'm also intrigued by this phenomenon, would love to hear more about it. |
Forkish Overnight Country Brown Question
How is Forkish bulk fermenting overnight for 15 hours at 12% fermented flour with 30% whole wheat and no salt added, at 21c room temp, and not over-fermenting? That’s 5x normal. And then still going on to do a 4 hour proof. Thoughts? Thanks. | He Is the Only One Who Can ....
No one knows. And no one on TFL has been able to follow his timelines without incident. Do a search on TFL of Forkish and you will find many posts on precisely your topic.David Snyder went through much (perhaps all?) of FWSY and did blogs on his bakes. They are very informative, and i... |
Raisins loaf with raisins wildyeast starter
Back home after some busy days. Time to bake again. I had some raisins wateryeast stored in the fridge, so I made a nice and powerful starter mixing with stoneground flour.This time I also added some butter and little sugar to the final dough, to make it softer. | It's been awhile
since we've seen one of your beautiful bakes. These look yummy! |
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