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Sourdough temperature if a sourdough is proved in a bannetton in the fridge overnight, does it need to warm up a little before being slashed and popped in the oven? Or, can it be slashed and go straight into the oven while fridge temp?	I get best results... with getting it straight out of fridge, slash and then in the pre-heated oven. It also makes it easier to slash with the dough being straight out of the fridge, I find. Kat
Tartine bread help!! Please hello i used tartine bread recipe for country bread and taste is great but it collapsed when I tranfered though from Basquet to Dutch oven, it had at least 19 hours fermentation any idea to how to get taller loaf and bigger wholes?	19 hours? In the fridge I hope.
Sourdough proofing times Hi all,First time poster so please be nice. Today I made my first sourdough loaf with a starter approximately five days old - I followed Richard Bertinet's method suggested in his book, Crust, however I did use a 100% hydration to refresh despite him suggesting 50%; I don't know why I did this....	Would love for you to retry sending a pic. You can upload and resize by using the 7th from the left or 5th from the right icon just below hte 'comment' section. If you hover over it, it says " insert/edit image". hester
sourdough starter questions I recently have gotten into bread baking which I have really enjoyed. It started with my girlfriend buying me the Tartine book for christmas and since then I have been researching and trying various recipes. I really love that its kind of "sciency" which appeals to my nature.Anyway I have a ...	An active starter At perfect temperature fed 1:1:1 and peaking in about 6.5 hours. Sounds great to me. When is your first bake? Welcome to the forum.
Hamelman's "Workday" bread stiff culture I have a question about Hamelman's "Workday" bread recipe. A stiff culture is specified for the Still[sic]-Levain Build.I only maintain a 100% hydration rye culture. Can I use this 100% culture, adjusting for hydration, in the the levain build? I really don't want to add the ext...	Yes Yes you can. In the section of the book where he explains starters, Jeffrey himself says that it doesn't matter whether you use stiff, or liquid, or in between starter.He says, in one of his letters published online,While it's good (and important in my opinion) for today's ever more skilled bakers to know how to co...
Preparing LARGE quantity of levain Hi there,I have been baking Sourdough for awhile now, but have never made more than 4 loaves at a time.I have built a wood fired oven and now have the capacity to bake larger quantities of bread. I’ve recently been asked if I’d be able to supply 40 loaves per week to a local general s...	Did you really mean 4000 kg? That's 8818 pounds.... of Levain? I don't think you would need that much dough weight even.A 1 kg loaf would be 2.2 pounds. Times 40 would be 88.8 pound..... of dough weight. Not levain. You likely want less levain.hester
Starter seems to be working well; did I make enough? After much cajoling, TLC, coaxing, feeding, and cursing, my starter (Murray), seems to be happy and lively! I think just a few more days and I’ll be able to try my first sourdough loaf!But I’m worried that I didn’t make enough! It’s only 250 grams worth. Most of the ...	Don’t remove half and it will build up until you will be screaming for mercy as it will have invaded your entire lodging. Ha ha! Just kidding! But seriously, you will end up with more than you know what to do with. What a lot of us do is thicken our starters to the point they are about 66% hydration or similar to a ver...
Avoid sourdough sticking during shaping Hey guys, newby here.I've made bread a handful of times before, but today was my first time trying my hand at sourdough. I was following some instructions on the web for making the loaf, which ended up with an hydration of 77% (including starter).I was wondering, in the shaping s...	Mk, if you want a high Mk, if you want a high hydration and do not want to add flour to the surface you can use a dough knife to help to move the bread around. A metal bread knife is extremely useful in baking, especially with high hydration dough.
70% dark rye / 30% whole wheat In an attempt to reproduce the rye bread from a local farmer's market I baked this bread. It is a four-stage sourdough bread, 70% dark rye, 30% whole wheat, 72% hydration, 1.8% salt, 2% molasses, 0.1% instant yeast. 30% of rye flour is scalded (5 hrs @ 155 F) together with baker's 5% of...	Now this a perfect example of what makes Lucy a determined German! I like it too. She would want to DaPumperize it of course but to each their own I say. It is great looking bread that has ti taste even better. Very well done indeed.Happy rye baking
enhancing the flavor of 50% rye sourdough I baked the Sourdough Rye with Walnuts recipe from Hamelman (minus walnuts). Both bulk fermentation and proofing were about mere one hour each, just as the book says. I ended up with a good looking crust and crumb. However, the flavor was kind of undeveloped and definitely m...	Could try adding the walnuts and if they are roasted first, even better. :)Bread spices?Use less sourdough starter and ferment longer.Save s few slices (freeze) to use crumbled into the next loaf. Either add with the liquids or build the starter with it. Use sourdough only to raise the loaf. Bake longer for more cr...
Anyone tried this SD culture seller....? Sourdoughs Internationalhttp://www.sourdo.com/our-sourdough-cultures-2/They sell various cultures that the owner has collected and also a book https://www.amazon.com/dp/1607740079/?coliid=IZFFRJ6DO0FYB&colid=3DQJ4KDP8NCFK&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it Has anyone used any of these c...	I borrowed the book from the I borrowed the book from the library, sorry don't recall much about it, though you can search the forum for book reviews. I bought the two italian starters, as well as the san francisco starter. All were revived pretty easily from the instructions. I also made my own, but since I bake ...
my first SD loaf is a failure... but tastes great i hadn't baked my first sourdough yet, but i've been feeding my starter and using discards for pancakes and scones. and i found a recipe for discarded starter on KA that i decided to go for. since i'm new to sourdough, i failed to register that the recipe didn't inclu...	I searched the KA site for I searched the KA site for “discarded starter” and didn’t find your bake. Please send link. I’d like to take a look.Dan
Starter grain types: do they matter I've been baking white wheat sourdough for a couple of years but recently I bought a home mill and have been exploring whole wheat and other grains. When I started whole wheat, I created a new starter by feeding the (home grown) white starter with whole wheat flour. Since then I've...	Imho, it depends on the amount of the starter you add to the loaf and the 'main' flour in the loaf. For example, I have one starter, but I adore the flavor of rye. When I'm baking a simple mostly white bread but with ~15% other grains (rye and whole wheat) on the last feeding of my starter I will add some rye. I thi...
Trevor’s pre-mix method failing I’m reading Open Crumb Mastery and Trevor describes pre-mix method - you mix your flour, water and salt in the evening, chill it for a couple of hours and then leave it on the counter until next morning. In the morning you add your levain (I actually use my ripened starter) mix, bulk and...	I don't know enough to suss out why this is happening for you. Have you tried another flour? Just one type to see if it's one of your flours that's messing things up?When I use Trevor's method I stick the premix into the Fridge and leave it there all night. I take it out the next morning and let it come to room temper...
Another dopey newbie question Sorry if this gets you all rolling your eyes: but what does "mature starter" mean?Thanks!	No such thing as a dopey question Fed, bubbly and peaked. P.s. if you're creating one from scratch then it means when the starter becomes viable.
Big hole crumb diagnosis Hi everybody!I'm getting really satisfied with my sourdough lately. However, the main issue now is the forming of too large bubbles in the crumb. How do you avoid such large holes? Is it a shaping issue? Best,Friso	Hi Frisco, overall the crumb Hi Frisco, overall the crumb looks good and not particularly dense or gummy. The large holes/alveoli are likely to be air trapped during folds and shaping. Giving the dough some gentle pats during shaping can help reduce that. Also, popping large bubbles that you see can also help.Benny
Starter's maiden voyage Hi All,It's just under two weeks since I first mixed up some rye and pineapple juice; of course, I was chomping at the bit to see if my starter would actually go anywhere.I decided on Trevor's 65% hydration loaf: http://www.breadwerx.com/how-to-get-open-crumb-from-stiff-dough-video/ and then pro...	You are totally on the right track! That loaf has very decent oven spring! Your starter can definitely leaven a loaf and no need for commercial yeast. As to your handling skills, you will find that it’s a learning curve that doesn’t seem to end. I have been at this for just over two years and I seem to be always trying...
Mistreated my starter! i put my sourdough starter together last week, and fed it regularly and on schedule for a few days then got lazy. Some days I’d forget, and not feed it until evening. And yesterday, I forgot to feed him! Is he gonna starve?	Nope Don't worry. Very hardy things. Just carry on as normal. In this early stage (I take it that it's not a fully fledged starter yet) over feeding can be more detrimental. If your starter is not mature or viable yet then it's hardly going to eat through all the food in a day or two.
no yeast sponge and salt relation I have a nice active sponge that will double upon feeding in a couple hours.I use it mostly for a multigrain loaf bread. PBJ.I had been weening the doughs off added yeast as the sponge became more potent.I'm at the point where I think my sponge has enough gas in of itself to rise the ...	Just stick to the regular amount of salt Which would be 1.8-2% of total flour. But since you work in volume I couldn't venture a guess as to what that would be.
Help! Sourdough timings for Friday evening bake. I work 9-5 Hi AllI'm new here so hope this post is OK here.I am an ok bread baker and love a fresh sourdough for the weekend (eggs on toast a fav)But I work full time and have never worked out a good schedule for a Friday night bake.I'm thinking that I should be able to ...	Recipe Do you have any recipe in mind?
Sourdough Starter At the risk of being exposed as the novice I am, my question is in reference to Peter Reinhart's Sourdough Bread instructions from "Crust & Crumb". His Starter Feeding calls for 1 part "mother starter". What's THAT? I'm now about to begin my first starter and wonder which flours would be best for t...	Many of these "recipes" use too much flour And over complicated things. Here is a good video but I'll add some basic ideas to accompany it. 1: pure pineapple juice for the first feed. 2: after which switch to water which has been boiled and cooled. 3: while the video has specific flours you can use any but remember tha...
Should a healthy starter be able to feed on any flour? I usually keep my starter fed on 50/50 rye/ap (or bread flour).It generally is quite active. It doubles every 5 to 6 hours after feeding with 1 part starter, two parts water, and two parts flour. I bake with it every two weeks or so and usually refresh it three or ...	Whole Wheat I was just going to ask I could use whole wheat flour for my starter.
how tightly should refrigerated starter be closed? i'm a beginner, and for a couple years wanted to make my own sour dough breads. after problems with my first starter, my second one (made from white spelt) is active, bubbles happily, smells delicious and rises a lot when fed. it makes great pancakes, too. i'd like t...	Starter in the refrigerator Hi pcake, I use those wire clip jars, with the rubber removed, for my starter.The starter slows down in the refrig, but there is still activity, so the gas has to escape.Bill.
SCOBY formed on top of sourdough starter?? Hey family!!have an established starter which I had left in a pantry after a heavy feeding with the lid on quite tightly to slow it down as I wasn't anticipating baking for a while. I live somewhere without a fridge and so i oftern keep my starter as "dormant" as posible betw...	Do you make kombucha? I have found that when you culture many things in one household, the organisms often "travel". After living in a place only a few months and actively making cultured foods (sourdough, kefir, kimchi,etc), I find my food seems to stay fresh longer. Fruit seems less likely to mold, food in the refrig...
Forkish Confusion Recipe for Forkish's "Walnut Levain Bread" (from his book --"FWSY") gets good reviews. Anxious to give it a try.Easy recipe with one confusing aspect. When ready to mix the levain with the dough, Forkish weighs the levain into a separate container containing a small amount of water to keep it from ...	The only thing I can think of Is to weight the levain accurately before adding to the dough to avoid any mishaps if weighing directly into the dough container. If you start adding the levain and the scales time out on you then you won't know how much has gone in etc, for example. Otherwise I can't think of anything els...
soft crust sourdough Hi All,My new starter is days away from being ready to use. I have a favorite recipe for a sourdough bread that has a nice crispy crust. However, I now have an adolescent who only eats soft crusted bread, but really likes commercial sourdough ( specifically, Sacramento Baking Company local bakery)....	Put any baked sourdough loaf, Put any baked sourdough loaf, once cooled, in a plastic bag and leave overnight on the counter? Works for me and makes it easier to slice. Sourdough usually retains plenty moisture inside.
Retardation If time constraints and management are not an issue, which approach produces better bread: bulk ferment or final proof overnight in fridge ? I make 100% wholewheat loaves. Many thanks. Valerie	I don't like final proof in I don't like final proof in the refrigerator because items often lose tension with the long rest. Might be OK for small items or ones that are baked in a form of some sort.
Maurizio's Tartine Best Sourdough Recipe Hi Everyone - I decided to depart for the time being from Trevor's Champlain SD and try Maurizio's Tartine. Both his and Trevor's are high hydration - 84%. Big risk - and challenging.All strengthening of the dough was through stretch & folds - the first 3 sets every 15 minutes t...	Great looking Loaf :) Great looking Loaf :)
sponge rise box I have been doing this with a small bowl of boiled water in the oven with the jar of sponge.Works great, but I'm concerned about all that moisture in the oven for hours.I was thinking perhaps a small plastic cooler instead. Has anyone tried this ?	Your oven is filled with Your oven is filled with moisture every time you bake, roast, or broil. I wouldn't worry about it.
Is this mold at 36 hours??? I am trying to make a sourdough starter for the first time and so far around 36 hours I see these green spots. I have used different types of water, sterilized everything by boiling (utensils, jar, etc...). If this normal? I tossed the starter out because I was afraid of mold. Could the f...	What had you done In the 36 hours before the mould appeared? Which method are you following? If it keeps on happening and you've tried everything you can think of other than change the flour then I think it'd be the next step.The next time you try a starter then use pure pineapple juice for the first feed. It's acidic ...
To Simple Starter Questions 1 - When bread recipes call for starter they often do not mention the ratio of flour:water that made up the starter. Does it matter, so long as the starter is vigorous and healthy?2 - Does the type of flour (APF, WWF, Rye, etc) in the starter make much difference in the baked bread? Might ...	Starter ratio Hi gerryp123, My answer to your first question. I just ran a recipe through my spreadsheet, with a 100% starter the hydration comes out at 68%, and a 70% starter hydration is 64%. That is using the starter at 24%, that is 24 grams of starter to every 100 grams of flour. When sharing a recipe we should inc...
Method post-retard? Hi all,Been looking for specifics on what to do with my sourdough after retard. I think I've read various mixed thoughts on these questions: -How much rest before baking? 20 min.? 1 hour? 2 hour? i.e., does it matter if it's at room temp or chilled when I bake it?-Re-shaping? I usually decide to...	I go straight from the I go straight from the refrigerator into the dutch oven without re-shaping. One thing you'll learn about standards in baking is that there is no standard...
50/50 Wholewheat SD and 2nd Hydration - any thoughts? I am venturing into learning 50/50 Wholewheat loaf.....new territory as new flour and also have been experimenting with hydration..as nervous with anything close to or more than 80% I have tried to introduce the water at different stages looking at different vids f...	That’s a great crumb. I too That’s a great crumb. I too don’t like it too open - the food falls through!
Massive air pockets in loaf - thoughts? Hello!This is a picture of the crumb of my first ever sourdough loaf. Used Maurizio's beginner sourdough recipe from perfectloaf blog. Any thoughts as to what caused this massive air bubble? The bread was incredibly delicious, great crust, and just really happy with all around - ...	It's a textbook case of It's a textbook case of underfermented dough.
Sourdough bagel help hello Guys, I am on a quest for the perfect sourdough bagel recipe, any help I could help would be great!!! Any any advice or recipes to give me?	I have never made bagels But just wanted to say that those look perfect to me.
Debra Winks starter I'm on day 6 or so of Debras starter method of 1:1 rye and grain flour to pineapple juice.I'm looking for a suggestion recipe to use half that starter.WW, rye, bread, AP, buckwheat, teff and oats is what I have on hand.I usually add a little porter beer for liquid in the dough.tia	If it's not rising yet or yeasty, I wouldn't use it until the bacteria and yeasts have sorted themselves out. It's not yet a sourdough starter. If it is smelling good and not rising yet, just pour off to reduce to about 100g and then leave it alone 24 hours. No feeding, danger of overfeeding if the yeast isn't pres...
starter Hi thereI have a question about starter strength. If it takes 8 hrs for my starter to double after I take it out of the fridge and feed it, is it ok to use it or should I feed it again until it doubles in a shorter amount of time?Thank you.	Not sure if your question can Not sure if your question can be answered definitely without more info. FYI, my very weak SD starter was able to double in 2-4 hours with a 1:1:1 feeding ratio. Good luck!
My baguettes came out of oven discolorized! So I have been using the tartine bread baguette recipe. But my baguette came out a grayish color and veri stiff and not life, it was fine when I was doing the folds and I could see the tension building, untill after I put it for its bench rest! That’s when it all went bad I t...	The photo makes the baguettes The photo makes the baguettes look tan, not gray, but otherwise it sounds like they were overproofed.
Why do the currants in my yeast water Periodically go from floating to sinking while refrigerated. Sometimes they're all on the bottom of the jar and then a few hours later they're all floating again.	Gas :) The gas bubbles stick to them (inside and out) they defy gravity (if it's still called that) and become lighter than the fluid. The gas bubbles rise transporting the raisins to the top. The bubbles pop on the surface. The now heavier raisin sinks after losing its buoyancy (down to the depths of the earth) ge...
Pane "Tipo" di Altamura Durum Flour: 100%Water: 70%Salt: 2%Durum Flour Starter @ 70% Hydration: 20%My photography gets progressively worse!A hard crust with a close but soft sweet crumb. Typical Altamura "style" bread. Sourdough made with durum wheat has no tang. A characteristic of this wheat. However when toasted and...	That's some awesome ear Looks lovely. Bet it tastes great also.hester
Any idea about this weird pattern on the bottom of my boule? Hi All, I did another high hydration SD by Maurizio today and although challenging I think it was fairly successful. But the pattern on the bottom really surprised me. Any ideas? On the advice of Abe, I'm posting the photo for your input and suggestions, etc....	Parchment? Steam channels formed from escaping steam under the loaf, all those open holes of escaping hot gas setting the under crust as it escapes. Most likely on parchment and/or dough surface wet under the loaf during the bake. Any prizes for the right guess?
Starter readiness conundrum Hi TFL! First post (and newbie baker)!! I am having some trouble coordinating "ripeness" of starter into levain.Last weekend I attempted first levain loaf FWSY Overnight Country Blonde, the week-ish old starter was active with over 2X rise, but the bulk fermentation never took off (in warm...	ripeness I think you have a sense of how this should work, and that you should follow what your starter is doing in your situation, rather than the book...and that is sensible.Of course you want to use it at its peak (many prefer to do it before), so you either need to feed it more often (like twice a day), reduce the ...
Einkorn sourdough First post from a long time reader........So I tried a variation on Reinhardts sourdough by substituting close to 50% einkorn (by weight.) It turned out pretty good, although the crumb is a tad underdone for my liking. I have another one in the dutch oven as I type this and will let it bake a bit lon...	My first loaf was also heavy I tore it apart and baked the crumbs in the oven... toasting and drying them out. They made great cereal that tasted a lot like "Grape Nuts" and was great with milk. Also as topping over cobblers. I find it takes a long time to break down the dough matrix so you might want to proof longe...
My first sourdough loaf this is my first attempt with my new starter. I mixed a sponge last evening at 7.30pm, left it over night in a cool room. This morning I added the rest of the flour and salt, kneaded and proved with folds at 1 1/2 and 3 hours in a bowl, fold and shape and place in banneton and final prove for 5 ...	Not bad for a first sd loaf the top has a nice browning, the bottom could use more heat and might give the spring you wanted to see. Try lowering the shelf a notch or switch to a darker baking surface for the next bake. That may also slow the crust from setting too early. :) if I understand correctly the bulking ris...
SF Country Sourdough with AYW I have recently been using AYW in a variety of bakes, and today tested Glenn Snyder’s SF Country SD by substituting 50% of the usual hydration with AYW and added my usual 5g Barley Malt Syrup. The result was its characteristic dark crust but with a greatly improved rise; I now wait for th...	Loving that colour Looking forward to the crumb shot and taste report.
New Starter showing little signs HiI have a starter that was ok to begin with but is now showing signs of bubbles on the top but nothing at the sides although it is rising in the jar. Could it be too loose and maybe should reduce the water in the feed and feed mainly with flour? Andy	A complete history please Formula, activity and day you're up to.
dough-pocolypse! Hi, I'm just getting started with sourdough and having some troubles. I'm following the 'overnight country blonde' recipe from Flour Water Salt Yeast. My problem is that after my bulk fermentation, my dough is so slack and lacking in structure that i can't shape it at all. its a goopy mess.Here's what ...	His recipes have very high Hydration. And can be very frustrating to do. Especially if you are just starting out. I started out with his book also, 2 1/2 years ago. I'm just beginning to really understand.May I suggest Trevor Wilson's 65% hydration? : http://www.breadwerx.com/how-to-get-open-crumb-from-stiff-dough-vi...
Need help with my Lievito Madre - first time panettone baker! I started making three different LMs this week based on blog and instagram feeds I was reading. Two were dry LMs (not in a water bath) and these are working really well (one was from a liquid starter and one was from scratch using honey and water). I am usin...	Hey Paula! I feel your pain. Hey Paula! I feel your pain. For the last month I have been working to establish a LM. I am burning through very expensive Italian flour. It is hard getting information. Most articles are written in Italian, but I’m sure you already know that :-)What resources are you using for information?...
Starter Feeding So I had a mature starter. Was feeding a 50/50 mix of whole wheat and all purpose. Began preparing a baguette starter of just AP flour. Doesn’t seem to be rising at the same rate as my usual 50/50. Is that because of the absence of the whole wheat? All other factors are good. Room temp / water temp... A...	Probably so. Whole grains Probably so. Whole grains will cause a starter to grow faster. What is your starter ratio? And how long to maturity?Dan
Sourdough Starter’s Access to Air Just staring to mix up my very first sourdough starter, and I’m wondering how much access it needs to air. I have what I think is the perfect container; it’s a large microwave steamer. The lid is slotted so air will get in, but enough? This might seem like a trivial question, but I wan...	Sure Sure
Starter may be proteolitic (?), can it be saved? Hi:My starter may be proteolitic (?) based on what I've read. Do you all think it's possible to fix this?My bread doesn't seem to bulk or proof properly at all, resulting in limp dough. This is the third starter that's doing this! Very frustrated. I've tried using a ...	Water? Could it be your water is too soft? Try food grade gypsum (calcium sulfate] at 0.03% (baker's percentage). You can get this at a supplier for home brewers. Ford
Newbie baker: How much acidity is too much? Hi guys, I have one of those annoying questions from a fretting first-time soughdough starter parent, so thanks for your patience in advance! My starter had the telltale signs of a case of leuconostoc bacteria in its early stages: very active bubbling followed by a blue-chees...	Stop feeding it and just stir it for a day or two until you see some activity. Then thicken it up so it is more like thick pancake batter. And keep it in a bit warmer spot. Why?1. You are diluting the yeast and bacteria if you feed it too often. They never get a chance to catch up. You can feed it twice a day once it i...
Tasting over-proofed? I find myself pushing the bulk and final proof more and more in search of a more open crumb. However, when I do this, they seem to taste over-proofed, if there is such a thing. They don't look over-proofed, and have great oven spring. Is it possible for a loaf to be over-proofed without looking it...	I usually only bake two types I usually only bake two types of bread, underproofed and overproofed. That is definitely not overproofed . Great looking loaf.
Large loaf with high 90% hydration soughdough baking time. Hello bakers and enthusiasts! I have been reading your discussions for couple of months now. This website is an excellent source of information and various views, especially relating to soughdough baking. This evening, I am going to bake a highly hydrated sough...	Depending on flour used You don't have to go up to 90% hydration, If you're going for all bread flour then 75% hydration works very well too. And watch the fermentation as when I have done the recipe often 24 hours can be too long.Which flour are you planning on using?
Day 9: take off this post follows on from my questions on starters in the Introduction section so I’ve moved over here.my starter was split yesterday into two jars to experiment with adding rye flour to one and continuing to add white bread flour to the other. Both fed on 1:1:1 ratio late morning yesterday and kept in ...	Looking good there Don't forget that the starter you used was well over 100% hydration. So taking off some starter and feeding it 1:1 still puts them at over 100% hydration even now. It'll take a few feedings to balance this out. The rye absorbs a lot more water than bread flour that's why you're seeing far more rise. ...
Sourdough starter app Hi all,I'm making a device at university that creates the perfect conditions for sourdough starters. This device also connects to a mobile application. I'm just curious and looking for some good insights in regard to what information would be useful to be shown through the mobile app and what sort...	I would like to know when it starts rising When the starter is risen 30% ( to name one of many points of rise)when the starter stop risingwhen the gasses contain alcohol, shown in %would like to plug in the flour type, particle size, and water, % or weight amountsand how long the process is taking, a running clock beep...
Rye starter is active, but wheat is slow? Hello, i have a rye starter that is about 1,5 months old. Its very active, except that when i make bread it takes almost 12 hours to double the bread, and by then it smels like vinegar.I see that everyone uses wheat starters, so im trying to convert mine into wheat. Why does it...	Definitely not an expert but, There is many reason why a dough won't seem to rise in a reasonable time, temperature, starter maturation and inoculation, dough compositions/handling. Also if you are doing Sourdough I've read a lot to expect only x1.5 the initial volume of dough.I feel that most people maintain their sta...
Thanks to Lechem and all IMG_1951.JPG Thanks to all of you who helped with my recent starter queries and especially to Lechem who has been patiently guiding me 1:1. I'm pleased to report that we were able to resurrect my dormant starter and I've just baked my first loaf. Not perfect but very acceptable for a fi...	If you attach the photo At the header of the post then it'll show up on the front page.What a lovely loaf. And kudos for all the patience. You never gave up and finally a starter was born.Lovely!
Tip - a super nice tool, the spatula Danni (the other one) got me started mixing my dough with a spatula. I don’t like sticky dough on my hands. I took a chance the other day and tried a new one, because the shape looked efficient. After initial testing, it is wonderful. The shape couldn’t be any better for mixing doug...	I have a spatula addiction. I have a spatula addiction. haha!! But mixing when the dough is still really sticky is much nicer with a nice sturdy yet flexible silicone spatula. To piggy-back your thread, one of my favorite recent acquisitions is my Campbells dough knife/bench scraper. I have a pile of plastic bench scra...
Starter healthy but slow to rise certain breads Hello all you fine bakers! I experienced unfamiliar behaviour from my starter last week and I thought I'd pick your brains if I could.When I started my sourdough journey, I basically made the same loaf approximately 12 times before I finally got it right. (Tartine basic c...	Probably not your starter Hi Mark! Since I make a seeded loaf nearly every week, I thought I would jump in.I think the fact that you introduced a few new variables into your normal routine will explain the differences in what you were expecting. Specifically, most additions (like seeds) and an increase in whole wheat...
Connection between bulk ferment and oven spring? We add in a bulk ferment for crumb, texture and flavour. Instead of kneading, shaping and proofing the bulk ferment is added in as an "extra" stage as a bread improver.I have seen recipes with the same amount of starter/levain percentage but with different requirements a...	Like most bread-related questions, Abe, the answer is "It depends". I've seen recipes with two bulk rises instead of one or that call for a trebling or quadrupling of dough volume instead of doubling. You can probably surmise that those weren't doughs with a 50% or more rye flour content. There's obviously a lot of ...
Dough In Fridge Hello Guys,I make Sourdough Doughnuts, and the process starts about 48 hours before I deliver them to cafes. My questions is how long can I keep the dough in the fridge? So after I've done my mixing, I let it ferment for however long it takes to almost double in size, can range from 5 hours to 12 depend...	It depends on whether your It depends on whether your dough keeps rising in the refrigerator; if it does, overproofing is your limitation. My refrigerator is barely above freezing, though, so once the dough cools down, it doesn't rise perceptibly. I've kept dough in there 3-4 days, but most authorities put 3 days at th...
Wet dough for large holes is too soft... I have been baking naturally leavened bread using the La Farm Bread recipe in Lionel Vatinet's book, "A Passion for Bread".When I use the listed amount of water for the recipe, the dough comes out really sticky and wet. I could work with this, but the dough flattens out, such ...	Well, KAF people are correct Well, KAF people are correct - you have to find the sweet spot, and you have to do it yourself. Cut water and try, and again, and again, until you get it right.
Can I use a small portion of a dough that has gone through bulk fermentation to start another dough? I started a dough which just finished a 4 hour bulk fermentation (complete with several sets of stretch and fold). I realized that the dough is too big for my Dutch oven, but if I divide it into two smaller (but equally...	You can also take the extra You can also take the extra dough and make some rolls with it. If you want you can certainly shape it into a tight ball and put in a covered container in your refrigerator and bake the next day. The only issue is it could overproof depending on what stage the dough is at now. There are re...
Refreshing Sourdough starter- Can you take a short cut? In Maggie Glezer's book, Artisan Baking Across America, she instructs that you should refresh the sourdough starter 3 times before baking with it. If the starter has pretty much quadrupled as she suggests after only 2 feedings, can it be used to start a bread dou...	Refreshing sourdough Actually, I should clarify what I want to do. I am plannng to make Thom Leonard's country French bread, and I would like to start the levain after 2 refreshments instead of 3. Will I compromise the rising or flavor if I do this?
Trouble shoot my dough please anyone have an idea what’s gone wrong here. It’s a sourdough 70% hydration. Bulk ferment for 4 hours. 1 fold every half hour. Tried and tested recipe that usually work...	Are you concerned about the Are you concerned about the lack of structure or evidence of yeast activity?The times I've experienced when the dough structure didn't develop as it should it's been due to a measurement error. What's happened more than once is that I weigh the water, but accidentally add the water from a di...
Starter in tartine recipe? Hello folks,This might be a stupid question, so please forgive me, total new sourdough baker here. I used King Arthur's instructions to make my starter: it's been a few weeks, and it's doing great. Rising and falling regularly after feedings, vigorous bubbles and activity.I want to attempt to...	A starter is a starter. The amount that he calls for in the recipe is the important thing. As long as your Levain is at peak or close to it, it will be fine. How you get there doesn’t matter as long as your starter is active. That being said, try to stick to the same hydration percentage in the Levain/starter as the re...
Lactic acid fermentation in a wheat gluten dough I am curious about using sourdough starter to promote lactic acid fermentation in a wheat gluten dough.I'm experimenting with vegetarian sausages, trying to replicate some of the lactic acid taste found in fermented meat sausages like pepperoni and salami. These are typi...	Lactic acid fermentation in a wheat gluten dough How did your experiment work out? What was the texture and flavor like?
Can I get more of a rise from wholemeal flour? I've been making sourdough loaves for about a year now, but I always seem to make bricks with none of the big air pockets which all the pictures say you should get! Can anyone point out where I may be going wrong?I keep my starter in the fridge between bakes. It's made w...	Recipe and method aside - for now That loaf pan is only half full.
Champlain(ish) Sourdough ORIGINAL RECIPE : http://www.breadwerx.com/champlain-sourdough-recipe-video/304g Water389g Bread Flour38g Whole Spelt Flour19g Whole Rye Flour50g Starter @ 100% Hydration (25g All-Purpose Flour/25g Water)9g Salt RE-DONE FOR 100G STARTER279g Water364g Bread Flour38g Whole Spelt Flour19g Whole Ry...	Looks gorgeous Nice loaf! Can't wait to see the crumb shot! did you follow Trevor's timeline? I'm sure it's delicious!
Why let dough rise before shaping? Why is sourdough left to rise before shaping, whereas yeasted breads typically are "punched down", shaped and then left to rise. Why don't we apply the same technique for sourdough? Wouldn't this lead to a more open crumb, cause you don't have to be as careful when shaping? Regards, T...	Well Theo, What you describe as "left to rise" I think would more accurately be described as a rest period. It is beneficial to allow the gluten to relax between the preshape and the final shaping. I think this rest period will benefit both commercial yeasted and naturally leavened loaves of bread equally. Kind regards...
Starter Story So does anyone have a good story behind their starter? Mine was given to me by an Italian chef, who was handed it by another Italian chef and they've traced it back 200 years to a village in the mountains outside of Rome!	Mine is a combo of two people from here at TFL and one I created myself. ?
Starter vessel diameter? Does anyone have any thoughts on whether the diameter of the jar used for storage affects the ability or rate of doubling/expansion? For instance, if my jar is 4 inches wide but my starter after feeding is only 1 inch deep, is it more difficult for the starter to gather strength to push upward?	The volume increase will be The volume increase will be less the smaller the diameter of the jar. Exactly how much less is difficult to assess, and will be a nonlinear function of diameter.
When to use This is the end of my third feeding (12 hours ago to increase the volume of my starter so I can have the 2 cups required by my recipe. I guess you call it a starter build.The top of the 2 pieces of blue tape show it as doubled + a bit more. I'm ready to bake as soon as it ready.By question is, when is it re...	That’s what I usually aim for as I believe that this has the max amount of built up yeast and bacteria. If you use it an hour or so, before or after, would be fine too.
Can't watch enough of these. There's always more to learn. This is how I do a lot of my learning. Watching videos looking for ideas and techniques. Doesn't have to be the most complicated recipe either although the hydration of this bread is probably way beyond anything I could handle. Thought as a poolish and sourdoug...	Actually, I usually get Actually, I usually get bored and cut them off in a minute or two, but based on your suggestion, I did watch it all the way through. I did find his fingers make a paddle story new, and when he loaded the dough in the oven, I thought it was awfully flat, but he got a ton of oven spring, so he...
Strength of a Stiff Levain? I've always run a 100% hydration starter and levain, but just out of interest I'm having a go at a stiff levain similar to Gérard Rubaud's 3 stage build with a hydration of about 55%.My question is whether a stiff starter is considered to be "stronger" weight for weight than a liquid one?On ...	Lower hydration starters Are good for weak gluten flours. There will be flavour differences too. And don't forget to take the preferment flour percentage into account. Like you have said, weight for weight the percentage of flour within a low hydration starter will be more.
Help for first time starter Hi All,I started off my starter 1:1 with 100g wholemeal strong flour and water. Every 24 hours since I've discarded roughly half and fed with another 100g wholemeal and water, beating it well to aerate. At first I had the bowl covered with a small plate but I switched to a straining cloth to...	I’m not sure how to advise I’m not sure how to advise you, so I’ll let others reply with suggestions.One question, what is the temperature where the starter sits? If you can keep it around 78 degrees it should be happy. If it is too cold it will remain sluggish. Try to feed with whole grain, organic if you have a choic...
Why does it stop rising? Is my starter bad? My dough seems to stop rising and the result is a rather dense crumb. I've been using the same recipe for quite some time and the last two times it just doesn't rise that much. The starter does fine. I feed it the night before and it does great. I'm using the same amount of s...	Bad starter? Well, your starter may be "bad," but there are a couple possibilities that are more likely.Has the weather changed? Specifically, is the temperature of the room in which your dough is fermenting a lot cooler than it has been? If so, you want the dough warmer. Use warmer water to mix it. Ferment in a warmer...
Help with diagnosing compact bread(picture included) Hi!I'm a beginner at sourdough bread-making and I am asking for help to identify what I am doing wrong. My breads generally do not rise enough and are quite compact. Yesterday I followed the steps from this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz38BsEEL2g&t=In my hu...	Hi there... I am not an expert but learnt a lot by baking together with folks on this web site on the following thread:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/55230/anyone-interested-champlain-sd-bakeWe are following Trevor Jay Wilson's recipe for his Champlain SD and also big fans of his book 'Open Crumb Mastery'....A good p...
Fermenting until sugar and gluten is completely broken down So I tried to ferment white flour for a few days in 80 degree heat... Originally I had a nice firm dough but after a couple days it turned into complete soup. This makes sense since the gluten is theoretically all broken down.. does anyone have experience with...	What are you trying to accomplish? I'm confused at what you are trying to do here. Did you include a starter or yeast with the flour and water, or were you trying to start a sourdough / wild yeast starter? Was there any activity visible, such as bubbling or growing or anything before it turned in to "soup"? If there ...
Borodinsky Bread Starter Build: 12 hours (overnight)12g whole rye starter @ 100% hydration 60g water60g whole rye flourScald: 10 hours (2 hours after starter build)200g boiled water at 150°F (65°C)50g whole rye flour25g crystal rye malt flour2.5g ground corianderPre-Ferment: (4 hours)all of scalded batch125g refreshed ...	One of my favorites, Abe Putting the coriander into the scald is something I hadn't heard before. How did you like it? My experience of putting the crushed seeds on top was that some bites included a bit of crunch and a burst of citrusy flavor.Interesting, too, that you baked it as a hearth loaf when I've only seen i...
Sprouted seed sourdough I'm trying to recreate a activated seed loaf made by a bakery that's going out of business. The loaf is claimed to be yeast-free, but I think given its openess and texture is probably sourdough, and no other rising agents are on the label.I started by adding equal quantities of sesame, sunflower...	No flour? If the mixture is nothing but seeds, it’s no surprise that the resulting loaf is crumbly. The flax gel won’t be enough to bind everything together and the buckwheat proportion is probably too low to provide a paste that can bind the mass together, either.Having never worked with a starter like that, about al...
Help with my sourdough experiment Hi, Forgive me for the long post. I'm doing a sourdough bread experiment to see the difference between a cold bulk fermentation and a cold proof. I'd appreciate some guidance from you so I can do the experiment properly. I'm worried about overproofing the dough. I'm using a 123 method ...	For Dough A It depends on the dough temperature after mixing, dough batch and fridge temperature. For a small batch like yours, I would definitely let it ferment 30-60 min before cold bulk. But this is a trial and error process. If you will find out the next day that after bulk it risen 50% or more, that means that nex...
I'm in the mood for 100% whole rye sourdough Borodinsky is an option but open to ideas and recipes. I have currants, pecans, flaxseed, sunflower and sesame seeds, molasses and ground coriander. Looking forward to your ideas.	Go with Josy Baker's "Dark Go with Josy Baker's "Dark Mountain Rye", fabulous bread. When I visited "the Mill" I asked Josey after having this bread if the recipe they use in the bakery is the same as in the book and he said: Yes. I think you can find his book on the internet somewhere. Happy baking!Joze
Thank You Loaves I am looking for suggestions for "lovely" sourdough loaves (sweet, savory, or tart) to bake for kindhearted neighbors and friends.Beyond thinking perhaps 300 grams of flour(s) per loaf, I can't wrap my mind about possibilities. I suppose I could make long loaves of SD French bread, or round SD boule, ...	Look at the Blueberry Cream Cheese Braid here on TFL You can find a link to it in the recipes list on the front page. There's no reason you couldn't make it with a sourdough, even though the recipe calls for yeast. It is as pretty as it is delicious. Paul
Another post about bad Tartine loaves I CANNOT get a Tartine style loaf to spring in my Dutch oven anything close to the real deal. I've been working on this for years with unsatisfactory results. To answer some common questions: I use King Arthur flours and filtered water. Yes, I've followed the directions and hydrati...	Cut way back on the water. That’s the only way I got the Tartine recipes to work for me. Oh and I skip the extra wheat germ in the recipes.
Large holes in bread - need help This looks a lovely loaf outside, but not happy with the large holes inside, something to do with shaping but not sure if it's bench/final or both, so would appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction.85% shipton mill no 410% wholemeal spelt5% light rye72% water20% levan...	Large holes I think the loaf looks lovely. If you want a tighter crumb you could be a bit more aggressive in shaping. Also, if you’re doing a 5 hr bench/fermentation, you should be degassing via folding every hour and a half. But seriously, I’m not sure why you’re unhappy. It’s a good looking loaf!
Yet more starter confusion. Would someone much more experienced than I please sort out my confusion? I bake once a week and store my starter in the fridge. Two nights before baking day, I remove the starter to the bench and feed it at night and again the following morning. For the initial feeding I discard about half t...	Keep a small amount in the fridge Take a some off and build it up in two feeds. Feed the what you have left of the starter and return it to the fridge. If you keep a low hydration starter then it can go for more than a week between feeds. Simply take a little off for your builds and when it runs low top it up.There is ...
More ww fewer holes -- or so it seems I made what I call Danni 6.0 bread again, this time using 1/3 ww flour rather than all KA bread flour. Bread is tasty, but crumb is less open. This may in part be due to baking on the griddle component of the Lodge Combo Cooker, with the Dutch oven component put over it like a cloc...	with whole grain flour This has been my experience, too. I use 100% whole wheat flour and my crumb would be pretty much the same as yours. Like you, I am prepared to forego a really open crumb in favour of the amazing flavour and nutritonal profile. I bake in a cold Dutch Oven and when I have not done anything stupid I...
New Here! Beginner Starter Question Hello!I’m new to the world of sourdough bread baking and this looks like a great place to be! I have a question about starters. I have one on the go, it’s just four days old, but is bubbly and is beginning to rise and fall predictably. I’ve just started feeding twice a day (as per ...	I think I would give it a good feeding as in more flour than water and let it sit on the counter considering your house is that cool. Make it nice and thick and it will have plenty of food while you are gone. At this point, the yeast and bacteria are not established so I wouldn’t put it in the fridge.
no rise at all?! I've made my own starter for the first time and used it today to make some bread and...nothing happened. I have no idea why...my starter was fluffy, doubled in size, floated, smelled good...why did it behave as though there was no yeast in it? It's a real pancake.I used theperfectloaf.com 's starter re...	How Cold? Sarah,How cold is it? Changing to pure wheat flour may be problematic for the new starter - it's missing its Rye flour vitamin pill...,Wild-Yeast
How do I get a tall and pretty loaf Newbie's first post. I would like to learn sourdough baking and make the loaves as pretty as seen on this forum.My method (pretty much no knead and minimal SF due to busy schedule):100g 100% hydration starter200g water (used cold 60F water)300g KA organic bread flour6g saltIn the mor...	Seems almost inevitable to me Seems almost inevitable to me that a high hydration dough allowed to proof for 8 hours is going to be flat. Are you proofing in a boole-shaped vessel?
What would salt in the starter do? Would there be a change to it's characteristics?How much salt (I'm assuming the usual 1.8-2%) and is there an ideal % to bring out a different flavour?	Only one way to find out , lol Let us know after you have done the split and salt (Y)
Not to further confuse things, but Champlain SD Part 2! Hope nobody minds but Dan’s original post was getting so long, I thought I’d start a 2nd thread!Carl, you asked about the increase in starter. Here is Trevor’s response to my email asking about working with a different timeline:Hi Sharon, probably the best thing ...	Interesting comment. I wonder if instead of proofing in the refrigerator immediately I should leave shaped loaves in the bannetons at room temp for 30-60 minutes before retarding or will that overproof during the retard. or as is often suggested, I should warm dough on bench for that time before baking? if i warmed up ...
Starter rejecting white flour Hello,My starter has been active for three or four days now. I have been slowly trying to wean it off of rye flour, but every time I try feeding with 100% white, it doesn't gas up properly, it doesn't double, maybe just rises 30% or so, with tiny bubbles.I would be okay feeding the starte...	You might change your water As I understand it, distilled water is mineral free. While its purity sounds good, there are some components that you would find in spring water that help your yeast growth. Substitute some spring water that you can find in most supermarkets or Walmart type stores. It's inexpensive at around...
Waking Up Sourdough Starter I keep my starter in the fridge as I don't bake more than once a week. BTW, I'm pretty new to making sourdough bread. When I have used it, I take out 50g (100% hydration) and add 25g of H2o and 25 of flour. After I see it double, I add 25g of H2o and 25 of flour again. That gives me enough ...	Yes. And yes. And yes. Either way will give good results. Paul
Overbaked but still great	Here are the other two from this morning, the good ones! Perfectly timed. The two that are darker were in my outside oven and the timing is a bit off. Five minutes too long, I believe.
Making leaven vs "pure" starter On a whim a month or so ago I decided to make a sourdough starter and try to make sourdough bread. 6 loaves later (my avatar) I feel like I'm getting somewhere. I've been sticking to the one recipe (https://www.thekitchn.com/how-to-make-sourdough-bread-224367) and altering things like wh...	I think the various builds I think the various builds are intended to sculpt the flavor profile of the resulting bread; using starter only is likely to be one-dimensional.
Overfermented sourdough? Very weird raw dough texture Hi! very new baker here and I've been trying to make a no knead sourdough recipe that I let sit on the counter for 14 hours in a 70-80F home. After the bulk ferment I tried to form it into a rough ball on my countertop. About 2 hours later I came back and it was a c...	It sounds like it fermented It sounds like it fermented too long. 14 hours is a long time to spend at ~75 degrees. I would cut the time in half, and see how that goes.Your current dough might make a killer batch of pancakes or waffles! :)
effect of repeated feedings on starter strength GreetingsI've noticed that when I take my starter from the fridge, before using it, the more I feed/discard, the higher the starter can rise before it collapses. For example, after first feeding, it rises 2x before it begins to collapse. After the second feeding it can re...	I think the repeated feedings I think the repeated feedings activate the yeast and energize them to reproduce more aggressively. The population of the yeast increase causing more gas, resulting in a higher rise.A highly active starter should produce a highly active Levain. That levain will produce a gassy dough. And if...

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