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starter feeding before using to make bread
I maintain a 50% hydration stiff sourdough starter and keep 100grams of it in the fridge before I want to make bread I feed it let it ferment outside of the refrigerator for 4 hours and I save 100g in the fridgenow what I want to ask is because it takes a lot of time for the b... | I usually finish the bulk,
I usually finish the bulk, form the loaf a proof it in the fridge overnight . Bake it some time the next day. This way I can leave it bulk right to bedtime. I have great results this way |
My starter was fine. Four months after, something is wrong.
Hello everyone.I'm new over here. This is my first post. Really glad to find you. Well, I'm doing sourdough bread not for long, just four to five months. Everything was great until this week. I had my starter it lives in the refrigerator, and just once or twic... | High temperature and humidity
High temperature and humidity will usually accelerate your starter activity. I would try decreasing the water temperature that you use to mix your starter to slow down the process. did you measure the growth with a rubber band? maybe it went up and down in the same amount of time. |
Cool rise question
After reading the articles by SourdoLady I have a question about using a cool rise in the fridge after shaping the loaves:
Would a rise at a cool room temp, say 50 degrees F, be food safe and achieve the same long, flavor developing rise as in the fridge at colder temperatures?
I simply don't have ro... | Cool rise reply
Yes, you should get great flavor out of a long, slow rise at 50 degrees.
I might think twice about leaving out a dough enriched with a lot of daily or eggs, but a dough consisting of grains, water, salt, yeast, and perhaps a little oil should be quite safe left out overnight. At least I've never hear... |
sourdough loaf
Made with home made sour starter,
1 cup sour starter
1 cup warm water
1 tab sugar,
1/2 ounce soft butter
1 teas salt
flour.
Mix 2 cups flour with sour, water and sugar, rest 30 minutes,
add salt and butter and enough flour to make a nice workable dough,
knead well, proof to double, knock back, s... | pretty!!!
pretty!!! |
More attempts at sourdough...
I still haven't "perfected" my sourdough yet. :/
Earl (my starter) is such a happy lil' beastie, though. :) I've been pulling him out of the refridgerator to feed him every four days and he seems to be doing hunky-dory. Always bubbly and "sour" smelling. I've got two loaves rising on ... | Re: More attempts at sourdough
Scarlett, are you proofing your newly fed starter for 12 to 16 hours after feeding it? What I have been doing to get a more sour loaf is, I make the dough and then refrigerate the dough 24 to 48 hours. If I go 48 hours I take it out after 24 hours and fold the dough to de-gas it. This lon... |
Old Sourdough Recipe
Recently, my grandfather stumbled across an old, OLD cookbook that belonged to HIS grandmother. He knows that I've been dabbling with breads/baking, so he offered me the cookbook (he also knows I'm an archivist, so he knew I'd preserve it!). :) Anyway... I've been browsing through the recipes (t... | Re: Old Sourdough Recipe
What a fun story! I love those old recipes, too. As far as putting the dough in the refrigerator to rise, I do it all the time. It is referred to today as 'retarding the dough'. It also greatly improves the flavor and the keeping qualities of the bread. You are right about our refrigerators pro... |
starter question
I've started my first starter and I wanted to make sure I was on the right track. I started simple: one cup unbleached King Arthur bread flour and filtered well water. The mixture looks like pancake batter. Its in a plastic container covered with a damp paper towel (with a small hole ripped in the ... | Re: starter question
Hi Terpflan,
I will try to explain a few things and hopefully help you get that starter going. The first bubbles that came aren't yeast, but bacteria. As the mixture ferments it becomes more acidic and these bacteria die off. That is why you see bubbles and then--nothing. As your mixture ferments a... |
Rip off! :)
We, my family and I, just returned from a mini-vacation to San Francisco. Of course, we ate some yummy sourdough while we were there.
In one of the touristy stores on Fisherman's Wharf, I noticed a sourdough starter kit. It was, literally, an envelope (regualr postal size) with some flour in it. The pr... | Re: Rip off! :)
Rip offs?!? On Fisherman's Wharf?!? Never! I thought that was where all the salty curs imbibed their grog... ;-)
I grew up in the Bay Area and it wasn't until I was in high school that I actually went to Fisherman's Wharf. People from SF *never* go there. Pretty much walking down the pier qualifie... |
Starter Question
I am going to get an authentic San Francisco Sourdough starter in a week or so.
My questions are how long will the particular strains of Lactobacillus and wild yeast remain viable in the starter before a wild yeast from around here takes over the starter?
Do I need to keep the ph within a certain range... | Re: Starter Question
There is a lot of controversy on this subject. Many people insist that any starter will succumb to the local wild yeasts in the area after a period of time.
Ed Wood, of Sourdoughs International, says that he doesn't believe this is a significant problem. He states in his book, "Stable cultures are ... |
Ale in sourdough starter
> Yesterday I got the notion to make sourdough pita
> pockets. So last night I put about 1 cup sourdough starter into a jar along with 1 cup flour and 1 cup ale, well after about 6 hours it was almost over the top of the jar, so I chilled it in the fridge overnight.
> This morning after ... | Re: Ale in sourdough starter
Wow. That sounds really good. |
sourdough, baked in home made cloche | Re: sourdough, baked in home made cloche
You know I am not 100% happy about the cloche being a flower pot, though it is said they are OK, But..............
It's not like useing a Schlemmertopf clay baker, those are made for cooking in, the flower pot is a flower pot.
:-((( thank goodness the loaf I did cook under t... |
Yeast Inquiry
Hi,
Any one got an idea how many teaspoons or grams there is in a 1 packet (1/4 ounce) instant yeast. | Re: Yeast Inquiry
thanks alot :-) |
Sourdough Bread - Improved... I think
Okay, so after a number of issues I think I made some progress based on feedback from these forums so appreciate that.I have been trying to make the same recipe over and over 330 grams bread flour110 grams stone ground whole wheat295 grams water88 grams levain 100% hydration10 gram... | First, looks fine to me.
First, looks fine to me. Second, my only comment is you are doing exactly what you should be doing - taking one recipe, making it over and over ( with slight changes and making notes ) till you get what you like in terms of a finished product. With all the variations in flour and sourdoug... |
I want to buy a batard banneton. I have an 8-9" boule banneton. What is the equivalent?
Should I buy the 10" batard banneton or a larger size? It seems to me that a 10" batard banneton might be a little small. I just want the equivalent size batard banneton to my 8-9" boule banneton. Thank you! | 10" oval banneton
My 10" oval bannetons hold 900 grams of mostly WBF dough and allow for about 20% final rise without overflowing before retarding.Or did I misunderstand the question?Best wishes. Dave |
1:4:4 vs. 1:1:1 loaf
Hi all:I baked a couple of Tartine Country loaves today with a levain that was fed at 1:4:4 (25g starter (which is normally fed at 1:1:1) with 100g of flour and 100g of water). I've done this before and, interestingly, the loaves I get from a 1:4:4 levain are usually much smaller in size than the ... | Are you able to show crumb
Are you able to show crumb from each to compare, it might help you get the answers you’re looking for. Off the top of my head, one thing I can think of is that the 1:1:1 levain would be ready much more quickly than the 1:4:4. Is it possible that the 1:4:4 wasn’t quite ready when you used it... |
Rye Sourdoughs Splitting Open
Hi there,I'm hoping someone can help me troubleshoot a problem I'm having with my rye sourdoughs! Almost every time I make lower-hydration rye sourdoughs (that proof freestanding or in a basket as opposed to in a loaf pan), they come out with a deep split along the side near the bottom of ... | Hot stone?
Rus Brot is an excellent source of information on rye bread baking, and he has a whole article about avoiding cracks. But unfortunately in Russian. https://brotgost.blogspot.com/2016/02/bezpodrivov.html?m=1What he says specifically about the causes of splits near the bottom, is it's either wrong baking setup... |
Stiff rye starter?
Recently I was gifted 4 lbs of some beautiful freshly milled whole rye from a local mill. I've been wanting to try out freshly milled flours for a while but I have extremely little experience with whole grains so I've been reluctant to make the plunge; now that I know what fresh flour's like, I'm def... | So you feed it with twice as
So you feed it with twice as much flour as water?This is dark rye that absorbs more water then plain white flour. I feed my starter 50/50 white flour and dark rye and 100% water and it is already a thick paste. |
100% Organic Whole Wheat, Levain, & No Knead?
Hello, This is my first post on The Fresh Loaf forums. I am so excited to get to know a community of expert bread bakers. I am a beginner bread baker. I have only attempted 3 loaves a bread, all of them done this week. I was inspired by the Netflix television series, "Cooke... | Short answer
100% whole wheat does not have the same gluten content as regular white flour (since ww flour also contains germ and bran, which don't have gluten: you can also say that while 100% of white flour contains gluten, only 75% of ww flour contains gluten), so this will cause a difference in texture and structur... |
New Starter - Pineapple Solution - What is Happening?
Looking for experienced input and observation.I am in the process of starting a new starter from scratch according to Debra’s instructions. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-s... | Wow that is something. In my
Wow that is something. In my blog posts I showed some of the development of my rye starter with pineapple juice. There was absolutely no comparison to the whole wheat pineapple juice starter. The rye starter smelled good at all stages and was showing activity from day 1. Day 2 a few ho... |
Keys to an Open Crumb
So many of you are now making beautiful loafs with a nice open crumb. You have made tremendous progress in such a short period of time! Many more, like myself, are still working to replicate your results.I think it would be good to have a clean, centralized thread for everyone who has unlocked the... | good idea to create 'keys' to open crumb thread
Hi there,I am by all means not an expert and take my list with a 'pinch of salt' ha, ha, ....I started this journey stumbling over Trevor's book in December last year and then had the help and 'virtual' company of fellow bakers here...let me say thank you - I would have g... |
Loaves hard to cut?
It seems that my sourdough crust, while tasty, is extremely hard to cut through; especially the base of the loaf. Sawing through with a bread knife is a chore, it almost seems a straight bladed chefs knife works better. anyone have any tips? I may back my cooking time down a bit as my last loaf w... | If you cover the bread for the first
half of the bake the crust will be thinner, I use a Dutch Oven but anything that will retain the steam will do the trick. |
Sourdough english muffins-first attempt!
I used King Arthur's recipe here, and they turned out pretty decent I think! They were a tad undercooked inside, and I don't have one of those metal rings to help shape them, so I just free-formed it. But even though they were kind of oblong, they were super delicious! I have sl... | Nice work!
Obligatory crumb shot? 😎 |
Just Getting Started..Looking for Advice
Hello I've recently baked my first 2 loaves of sourdough. Both tasted great and had a nice crust but the crumb wasn't right.I'm not sure where I went wrong. I followed this recipe: https://foodgeek.dk/en/artisan-sourdough-bread-recipe-an-easy-recipe-for-crispy-bread/ and the onl... | Welcome and nice crumb!
A very nice looking crumb for a first time on a recipe. I do have a question,though. The crumb looks so golden. Was there any WW in the mix or just rye and bread flour?As far as eyeballing/estimating vs weighing-you will get a wide variety of answers to that query. Both sides passionate. My best... |
A "Simple" Liquid Starter: The Sullivan Street Bakery Cookbook
I've been a big fan of Jim Lahey for years now: both of his earlier cookbooks have allowed me to produce great bread and pizza. So when he came out with a new cookbook, The Sullivan Street Bakery Cookbook, which relies on wild yeast I decided I would give ... | Why not get some starter from Friends of Carl?
One dollar plus a self-addressed stamped envelope and you get a little packet of dried starter. Add that to flour and water and you're ready to go. My starter has been going something like ten years, and it started with Friends of Carl. http://carlsfriends.net/ |
Chickpea sourdough rolls/kumru/nohut ekmeği
Hello! The other day I saw pictures of something that I think is called kumru - a Turkish sandwich that uses a chickpea sourdough roll. I've spent a few days reading and translating Turkish recipes (including turning cup measurements into grams), and testing the recipes but i... | That looks very tricky.
I didn't want to say anything because I don't actually know anything about this method, but I know how frustrating it is to not have anyone respond when you need help.My first thought when reading your question is that you can't possibly get enough yeast activity just from boiling chickpeas and ... |
Primo Gusto high gluten flour giving me poor gluten development/dough strength
Hello all, I've been using Pillsbury AP four and their bread flour (13%) when making my SD loaves, using Ken Forkish techniques. Due to Covid I can not find 5 lb bags of the bread flour anywhere and had to resort the other day t... | bleached or bromated?
It sounds like your new flour might be bleached and/or bromated. What does the front package label and the back/side panel official "ingredients:" say?Bleaching, depending on the chemical used, ages the flour. And potassium bromate ("bromated") makes it more extensible/loose. Not only lower hy... |
Link to Science of Sourdough webinar from Knowable Magazine
Knowable Magazine sponsored a one-hour on-line Zoom session last week that brought together researchers from North Carolina State University and from Puratos, a baking consulting company in Belgium. The information covered was interesting though an hour is a ... | Thanks Doc.
I just need an hour when I'm not too tired...Cheers. |
Will pineapple juice help my starter 2 weeks in?
I mistakenly used up all of my trusty starter in a loaf a few weeks ago. To my great dismay, I had to begin the starter process all over again. Ive heard of the pineapple juice solution (and it has worked well for me before), although I just began with WW flour and water... | This late into it, it won't
This late into it, it won't do anything. Best bet right now is to stir a couple times a day and wait - it shouldn't be too long. Enjoy! |
Do you feed the discard?
Sorry if this is a terribly stupid question...I've tried searching online for an answer, but maybe I'm phrasing it wrong.I have my starting working quite nicely, stored in the fridge. I also have a small jar with discard - waiting for enough to make something with it.When I take the starter out... | "Discard" is a misnomer
I know there will be naysayers but I've been doing this for 14 years, to make two loaves every 10 days or so. The so-called "discard" is what I use to make my bread. If there is liquor formed, I use that too. Liquor and 290 grams discard are poured into a big bowl. Then I feed the starter t... |
Baking sourdough in a loaf tin (or similar) - hints?
I'm still playing happily with my friend's recipe that's 300 g of 50:50 levain, 200 g water, 400 g flour, 2 TBS salt 1 TBS sea salt flakes (about 11 g) (i.e. 63% hydration). I'm varying the hydration a little bit, adding seeds other grains, varying the proportion o... | How much salt?
That seems like an awful lot of salt. Is that a typo? |
Uneven scoring expansion - Advice needed
Hi there - Just finished a bake today with two loaves on a pizza steel with a pan of water and dish towels in bottom of oven for steam. Any suggestions on why the front of my loaves (closest to oven door) had beautiful expansion but the back ends, closest to the back of the oven... | More heat at the back of the
More heat at the back of the oven would cause the crust to thicken sooner than the front. Turn them after about 5-10 minutes and again midway through. Enjoy! |
Tartine Potato Focaccia
Hoping I can get your help with the Tartine Potato Focaccia recipe (pg. 101 in Tartine Bread). The recipe calls for for 1 recipe Basic Country Bread dough, which yields enough focaccia dough for a "rimmed baking sheet." Does anyone know if the book means a full or half sheet pan? I want to hal... | I'm not familiar with the recipe
But it would be easier to guess if you told us the final dough weight. A "full sized" rimmed baking sheet for most residential cooks is technically a "half sheet". The pan you describe as 9x13 I would call a "quarter" sheet pan. But my experience would say that any final dough weight of... |
Freezing sourdough starter
I just read that you can take your extra sourdough starter, freeze it flat, and whack off a piece as needed. What a great idea. Cannot source this, sorry, as I read a lot here and there, but mine is frozen now and I'll let you know how it turns out. Anybody?? Surely the California gold miners... | Starters are very resilient
You dont normally find anyone recommending freezing starter but it works! You'll find that most people recommend drying out starter for long storage. However I have frozen some in the past (couldn't be bothered with the whole drying process) and worked very well. You will have to give it a f... |
Bulk Fermentation took too long
I tried to repeat a recipe I did previously which appeared to have under fermentation issues484 flour324g water10g saltlevain: 18/35/35I did my same process. Levain for about 6 hours until more than double and good bubbles. Autolease for 2 hours, then mixed the dough, salt and levain.... | I think your starter needs to
I think your starter needs to be reinvigorated. I would give it a feed or two of whole-grain flour, rye or wheat. Whole grain has a much higher microbial count to re-seed the culture and get it moving again. If that doesn't do it, skip a feeding or two to allow the acidity to build. Also, ... |
Help baking w/ heritage flours
I've been baking from FWSY since March with good success using KA flours. I recently experimented using some of our regional heritage grains in the Country Brown recipe. While the product wasn't a total fail, there is much to improve. The flavor was great, but the loaf was very dense. Any... | Excellent choice of flour.
Those are good ingredients and a good recipe, but they don't exactly match each other. I do think they are close enough that you can make adjustments, if you're willing to experiment by trial and error.Instead of 604 g of white bran-less germ-less grocery store "bread flour", your Great Rive... |
Results of % Rise during Bulk Ferment Experiment
Danny had suggested an experiment on the impact of different % increase in volume during Bulk Fermentation on the final loaf. proposed-experiment-bf-rise I decided to try the test, though due to scheduling issues, and a few math errors, it did not go as planned. If y... | Thank you for undertaking
this experiment! Now that your results are in, the questions will certainly arise!Keep on baking, Carole |
Dense sourdough loaf with large holes
Hi! I'm new to sourdough and have been trying the Tartine Country Bread recipe. I'm hoping I could get advice as to why it is turning out dense and with large holes.For one loaf I use 450g bread flour, 50g wheat flour, 375g water, 10g salt and 100g starter. I use my 100% hydration ... | Underproofed Tartine
Hi, LynnZ!If you don't mind, I'll suggest that you have underproofed the loaf.I suspect this because of the dense crumb, especially at the bottom and other areas throughout. Also, the large tunnels are another symptom common to under-proofing.I think you have plenty of gluten. Maybe try doing a few... |
Do small changes in the composition of a starter lead to changes in flavour?
I'd welcome the thoughts of any members/readers on this question: can small changes in the composition of a sourdough starter lead to changes in flavour?I've had a starter on the go for several years but have altered its make-up over time to g... | Have you noticed if your
Have you noticed if your starter matures faster/sooner? I’m guessing it does and that you are bringing more acid into the formula from the get go - It’s the only thing that I can think of. |
Sourdough Starter with bleached flour
Hi! I have recently taken an interest in making sourdough bread and artisanal bread. So I finally started my sourdough starter and it has been over a week. In all my research it has told me to not use bleached flour but it was the only thing available near me, but now it has been n... | Keep your present starter and
Keep your present starter and feed in Whole Grain Wheat or better yet Whole Grain Rye,.https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/62583/tip-sourdough-starters |
Troubleshooting - Crumb Shots
hi everyone, new to the forum and about 23 loaves into the sourdough journey. I struggled with underproofing in the beginning, and now I'm better at gauging when the BF is done. I live in the tropical climate, high humidity and around room temp of 27-29 deg. I did an experiment with 20%... | Maybe just hyperactivity due
Maybe just hyperactivity due to high temps. have you tried to use cooler water for you dough mix and achieve a certain dough temperature? 40-50% increase during bulk is on the higher end of the spectrum. See what happens if you do 20%. |
Hamelman's Five Grain Levain - Community Bake
Thank you Danny for this community bake. Every single bake a gem. Difficult to comment on every single one so this compliment is for you! I've read all the posts, seen all the lovely bakes and everyone brought me inspiration. This is a credit to Jeffrey Hamelman and a testi... | That is the perfect
sandwich sluce' it's perfect. Btw, what is freekeh? Well done, my friend ' |
Basic Sourdough with tangzhong
hey folks. Been away for a bit. Daughter left for college and less bread consumption in the house lately so less baking. But recently my neighbor has a nephew who was getting into sourdoughs and had some issues so she referred him to me. I was very happy to shared my starter, some gear, t... | Looks nice, I will have to
Looks nice, I will have to put that on the list to try. |
Acetone smell in well-fed starter
I've been working on my first sourdough starter for almost two weeks now (it'll be two weeks on Sunday). Things were going well initially, and around day 3 or 4 I started feeding it every 12 hours. It got that nice, tangy smell but never rose much at all. I just kept feeding it every 1... | If your starter is active,
If your starter is active, and the weather is warm, a 1:1:1 mixture will not last long - that's a lot of starter, and not a lot of food. If it's not that active, and isn't bubbling, I would simply continue and wait it out. |
Perplexed - my oven spring has gone flaccid.
Oh, no...not another oven spring post.Yes, but I hope this might intrigue the more experienced members of this forum because the cause -- at least to me -- is not so obvious.I have "beach ball" oven spring envy -- those loafs that look like they are just bursting out of thei... | I see a couple things
that might help. Your getting a good bloom but it needs to shift towards the top of the loaf. Try to slash it more off center towards the ear side so that the center of the bloom is in the middle. The other thing is the pan you are baking in is too confining and does not allow the dough to expand ... |
Tartine Oven Spring Improved!
After getting all of your super helpful feedback, I've decided to give the Tartine recipe another go. I was having problems achieving a good spring: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67063/oven-spring-help. See below for my latest. I'm so happy with it! Some changes I made:Knocked hydr... | beautiful
I thought your initial bakes looked great, and this one is beautiful too! Great ear. |
White dry "bloom" or dusty crust on starters
Hey - long-time reader but first post on these pages. Looking for experienced advice on my starters.I've had a go at sourdough for a while now, but low level "around the kids" stuff with poor results. Picked up a bit last year and in lockdown, had a real spell and have got r... | Rye starter at 70%
The main post shows my liquid levain now running at 100% hydration purely white bread flour. This post is meant to be the stiff rye starter I have now developed from my 3-yo rye starter. |
Help with adjusting recipe
Helllo! I am trying out this recipe: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14432/banana-pain-au-levain but realized I started the recipe at an awkward time to allow for a 10 hour cold proof in the fridge without having to stay up very late or wake up in the middle of the night. Since a large port... | Update
Didn't receive any responses in time, so thought I'd just share what I did.My intention was to follow the recipe fairly closely, but I made a few tweaks. The recipe didn't say what kind of starter was used, so I used my 100% rye starter. (when I try this again, I think I'll make a levain with AP or bread flour i... |
A new Hamelman recipe for me
Hamelman's Hazelnut and Fig Levain. An interesting combo of roasted hazelnuts, dried figs and a touch of anise seed. Most of us are familiar with Hamelman's 125% hydration levain but his recipes are divided between high hydration and low 60% hydration levains. This recipe incorporates a sti... | Nice flavor pairing
You certainly bake some beautiful breads. This one looks like it would be perfect for breakfast or with an afternoon coffee or tea. Hamelman's pain au levain is a favorite of mine for its mild flavor; it's the only sourdough I can get my husband to eat and, (to be honest, he's even balky about this ... |
new oven new question
Hello,I have just acquired a new oven full of useless tech.One of the things it has is pre-set programmes for things like bread.For this programme it suggests I put the bread in a cold oven and bake for 50-60 mins.My question is, do you think it's wise to put bread in a cold oven? I believe the pr... | depends.
It depends what the formula author intended. When a baker designs and tests their formula for baking a certain way, and then you make changes to that baker's formula (ingredients + procedures), then all bets are off. You are blazing a new trail. Your changes might make no difference, or might improve things,... |
Sourdough Savory Rolls
Tried Maurzio's Best Sourdough Savory Rolls recipe from Food52 today:https://food52.com/recipes/84813-sourdough-savory-rolls-recipe-with-parmesan-ricottaTurned out pretty good! I wish there was a tad bit more ricotta filling, but the texture came out fluffy and perfect. :) | These look great! Well done.
These look great! Well done. Thanks for the link. The effort looks worthwhile.Cheers,Gain. |
Oven Spring Help!
Hi all: I've been trying to better my oven spring with my last couple of loaves, but I'm always missing the mark. See below for my loaf this morning. My starter is vigorous, I preheat my oven at 500F and bake 450F in my Dutch oven, and this time I even sprayed my loaf with water to promote steam. I ... | I'm waiting for photo...
...of an under risen loaf. Can you post it please? |
Another semi dense loaf
Well I made a another loaf and it seems like the crumb is still pretty dense. In a previous comment somebody noted I should bulk ferment longer so I did. I also tried to create a bulk ferment checker by putting some of my dough into a clear glass jar, but after 5 hours of bulk fermenting i did... | Under Fermented
Sorry if this diagnosis is beginning to drive you mad but it's under fermented. Next time forget the clock! Don't budge from the bulk ferment till your dough is puffy and aerated. Since you're underestimating i'm going to advise you to aim for doubled. Not necessarily needed for the bulk ferment stage b... |
My second attempt
My first attempt can be found here:https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67049/first-starter-first-loaf-first-postMy second attempt, I didn’t impress myself as much, but it’s mostly my fault as I changed way too many variables.second loaf:400g KA BF75g KA WW25g Bobs dark rye flour395g water10g salt100g le... | Everybody thinks
you must have high hydration to achieve good results.(Well....not everybody) Try working with something in the 70-73% range for a bit and see if your result meets your expectations. I think you have too much water for the flour ratios and types you are using. Once you have seen what the results are, de... |
starter feed time question
Hi all-I'm trying the pineapple juice solution starter that I found here recently. Regarding the feed schedule is one day 12 hours or 24 hours?Thanks!Mark | Once a day
Is every 24 hours. |
Help Convert Recipe to Sourdough?
Hello!I have this sandwich bread recipe I really like. I've already made some changes to it, including converting it over to 100% sprouted whole wheat flour, and love the loaves it produces. But it uses dry instant yeast.I have a very healthy, regularly fed, sourdough mother - and whil... | How to convert to sourdough
1: Take out the yeast.2: Add in recently fed and matured starter.3: Adjust the flour and water for however much flour and water there is in the starter. So if you add in 100g starter at 100% hydration, which equals 50g water + 50g water, then reduce the flour and water accordingly. The more ... |
Vinegar in new starter?
I recently made a new starter and, inspired by the pineapple juice method*, I decided to try making the starter more acidic to begin with by adding in a teaspoon of vinegar (just the cheap stuff from the supermarket, no mother) to bypass the initial bacteria bubbliness. I mixed equal parts bread... | Sounds ok to me
However the reason why starter is discarded at the beginning is because if one is giving it healthy feeds while it is maturing it'll build up quickly. Due to exponential growth even if you start off with a small amount of starter and feed it, for argument's sake, 1:1:1 then before long it'll be a huge a... |
Mad Scientist in the Kitchen
Hi all. New to posting. New to bread making. Just retired after 30 yrs Surgical Oncologist also with degree in microbial genetics and molecular biology/chemistry so I know a bit about how these cultures work. But- raw rookie in the kitchen needing help with Levain culture. My culture is 2 w... | Welcome, from another
Welcome, from another scientist! Sounds like you are well on your way to success.Peak hight is not that important really. I guess if you continuously keep feeding the starter twice a day it'll be stronger and peak faster and higher - but you can make great bread with starter kept in the fridge by ... |
Is there a reason why bulk ferment is not completed in the banneton?
We know that the proofier the dough, the more likely we will degas it during shaping. Why not just shape it shortly after the last stretch and fold and the let it finish rising in the banneton? Is there a flaw to this idea that I'm not seeing? | The dough would overproof
Dough can overproof and you will end up with a dense collapsed loaf. By doing the bulk ferment you can develop flavor without overproofing. |
I'm trying an alternate culture
for "sourdough". I am a kombucha brewer and while bottling my latest brew, I decided to try to make a starter from it. I took 100 grams of kombucha and mixed with 100 grams Ap flour. After 24 hours its getting bubbly. Once it gains some strength, I plan on making a levain and baking a lo... | I've done this using kefir
But kefir has very similar cultures in it and the pH level of a starter. I would think the cultures in kombucha are not so similar and the pH level is lower than the range of a typical starter. I'm not saying it won't work rather it's something to think about and perhaps adjust accordingly. W... |
lievito madre, discard fried bread. "Sfinz"
yummy, I am 12 yrs. old again! | I'm drooling! I think I've
I'm drooling! I think I've just put-on half a kilo looking at the pictures. |
yeast die during baking
hi all,does anyone know for sure if all the yeasts in sourdough, or bakers yeast die when baked?ive just had an IgG test and yeast comes up high on intolerance.Yeast is in everything as a flavouring which Im not worried about cutting out, sourdough bread on the other hand :( | All the yeasts die during baking
I'm not a mavin on yeast and it's role when it comes to intolerance but they're all dead by the time the bread is baked. Now whether yeast dead or alive might still get a reaction is one for a scientist. Food is not alive but one can still have intolerance. |
% of SD Bulk Fermentation
Just watched Zune’s (Food Geek) latest YouTube video. In the video he mentioned that for that particular dough a 25% rise was an indicator to terminate the BF. That statement got me to thinking...Should we consider our SD BF in a similar way that our starters and levains has a “lag stage”?It i... | "Most of us retard after
"Most of us retard after shaping."I have wondered about the variations in time delay between final shaping and retardation. I have always been concerned about over-proofing and so my banneton(s) go into the fridge immediately after final shaping.But I have read here that some bakers leave the s... |
Ken Forkish Overnight blonde Fail on the tropic
HI I have read a lot about this on this forum but still have some doubts I start reading all the book before going in the recipes. When I was ready I start with the overnight blonde. I have been baking for 1 year in my little restaurant. I use Emmnuel Hadjianndreu Book, H... | Forkish overnight = 65 F / 28 C.
Forkish's overnight temp is 65 F / 18 C, as per page 66 of FWSY. |
SD starter OK but leaven so so....
Hi fellow bakers,I'd like some insights on why a leaven would be weak even though based on a working starter.I've been baking SD 50/50 WW for a while using a version of Trevor's method. Results are not stellar but quite decent. My starter is 100% Rye.I recently got the Tartine#1 book ... | What Temperature Are You Proofing At?
It might be to cool to properly ferment. I usually proof for anywhere from 70 to 90 degrees. Also, the leaven should be peaked or just starting to fall when you use it (mine usually grows 100-200%, 20% seems pretty low). Hope this helps! |
Sourdough flattening a bit/ hard to score
Hi,I'm fairly new to the sourdough game and just started making a few loaves.I feel like i'm doing things right but my dough always flattens a bit when i take it out of the fridge after final proof and is also quite difficult to score. I'm also having some trouble with preshapi... | looks too wet.
Welcome to TFL!"I'm using tartine's recipe, "That's good. I'm a big fan of Chad Robertson. But there are two bread books with "Tartine" in the title, with dozens of recipes. Could you please give the book name ("Tartine Bread" or "Tartine Book No. 3") and the actual recipe/formula name? (Page # could h... |
Sourdough low innoculation recipe tradeoffs
Hi all - love this forum and just joined after reading it for many months. I've read through Debra Wing's posts that I could find and a majority of others and it's been super informative to learn the microbiology of sourdough fermentation. I noticed in the past year or two th... | Is it?
"...fermentation is a race between yeast and bacteria".Isn't a sourdough starter, and similarly the resulting dough, a symbiotic culture of bacteria and yeast? Does something that's symbiotic have a race going on? I would have thought it would be the exact opposite. Doesn't a stable starter have 100:1 bacteri |
Flour Commitment
Something I have been thinking about is the amount of flour required for starters and sourdough. It seems that if you don’t want to waste flour you either need to be baking daily/weekly or finding a use for the excess starter. I don’t eat enough bread to constantly be baking so I’m curious what peopl... | Keep the starter in the
Keep the starter in the fridge, only feed when you run low, or if it's losing activity. When done well, you can have no discard, or only occasionally if you don't bake for a while and need to feed the starter before using it.Works better if you keep a rye starter. |
Sourdough recipes cooked without Dutch oven never develop brown crust
Hello! I’m new to the fresh loaf, but I have been baking sourdough for a while now. I’ve had great success baking loaves in my Dutch oven. I get a nice blustery, deeply browned crust and light airy crumb. Recently though, I’ve tried my hand at focacc... | Dutch oven
You may want to get an oven thermometer to check your oven temperature to see if it is getting hot enough.. Also, you can try preheating the Dutch oven. Be carful the pot will be very hot. Preheat the oven for 1/2 to 1 hour before baking. |
First starter, first loaf, first post!
Hey All, new to the site and sourdough baking. Figured I’d share my first attempt at a sourdough loaf. Seemed to go pretty well, definitely room for improvement! I developed my starter a couple weeks ago and have been feeding it 50/50 APF and WW flour. I think it still needs t... | I’d say you are off to a
I’d say you are off to a stellar start!Great Bake. |
Fooled by weak starter?
I understand that a "strong starter" is one that doubles in four hours after a one part starter, one part water, one part flour feeding (1:1:1).I like to feed my starter once every 12 hours when I am actively baking. In order to do this, I run it at 3:35:40. It's beautiful! I love my starter.Thi... | To me this sounds like a very
To me this sounds like a very healthy starter.Math of ratios vs time is non-linear, since it's an exponential process (until a certain point). Check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth#Water_lilyOr a different formulation of the same problem that I heard at school: i... |
Experiment Time - comparing whole grain starter feeds
A couple of months back my starter fed whole red fife became very sluggish again. As I did when this first happened I fed it whole rye for several days and got it active again. However, in the hopes of keeping it healthy and active I decided to keep it on a whole ... | Have you seen this? https:/
Have you seen this? https://youtu.be/stGtQCAXgfw |
Making Sweet/Enriched Breads Out of Sourdough Starter
I'm trying to make sweet/enriched breads out of sourdough starter but every time it comes out with a slightly tangy flavor. My family dislikes it if they can detect the slightest hint of sourness. I've tried making a starter with 100% hydration and one with 50% hydr... | Use before falling
I doubt it's possible to make sourdough bread with no hint of acidity. But to minimize it maintain your starter warm, and use it right at peak time, don't let it fall. A few consecutive feeds should help a lot. Maybe one small feed in the afternoon, bigger feed overnight, and a small feed in the morn... |
Harlequin Sourdough
Overall Formul | Bread Flour 450g (90%)Pearled Spelt Flour 40g (8%)Crystal Rye Malt Flour (non diastatic) 10g (2%)Water 340g (68%)Olive Oil 10g (2%)Salt 10g (2%)Goji Berries 50g (10%) [at a guess as I was eyeballing it]Pumpkin Seeds (toasted) 50g (10%) Levain Build: 12 hoursBread Flour 55gWater 70gLiquid Starter 10gFinal Dough:Bread Fl... |
Long ferment Detroit/Sicilian pizza dough?
Hey gang. I’m a commercial foods teacher and as part of my job I run the school cafeteria. I have been working the last 4 or so weeks on nailing down a solid sourdough pizza dough recipe that is a thicker pan style crust that can stay alive for up to 5 days in the fridge witho... | Just curious.
What temp is your fridge?Just to make sure I'm reading you correctly, you're saying your dough is still consistently good through the end of 5 days, or 120 hours. And now you want to take it beyond 5 days. Is that correct?That's pretty impressive in itself. Usually the cookbook authors say up to 72 hour... |
New to sourdough - struggling with crumb
Hi all. I have read a few posts and here and it seems like I’m having some similar issues with my sourdough. I have baked 4 loafs and all but 1 has been disappointing. My recent loaf seemed like it was going to be good, but still not what I’m hoping for. Dough seems dense wit... | Under Fermented
Either your starter is not as mature as you think it is yet, or you're misreading the maturity of the levain or ditto with the dough. Six days is quite young for a starter. Try feeding it for a but longer before the next bake. Slowly increase the feed ratio and wait for it to peak before feeding again. ... |
Better boules?
IMG_3638.JPG
Hi there, I have been baking for the last few months and am trying to hone in on the ideal technique and recipe for bread I like to eat. I made one this week and last week and although they tasted pretty good (need to work on getting slightly more sour flavour) they didn't really do... | based on crust/crumb
The exterior crust says that your formula is too wet and that you baked it too hot.Lack of oven spring is usually from over-fermentation, and the crumb photo seems to support that. Not enough to ruin the loaf, but enough to cancel out the oven spring.Net: less water, less fermentation, and lower ba... |
Trouble adjusting to Hayden flour
I have used Central Milling flours successfully for several years and this time decided to try Hayden Mills. I appreciate that any flour has its own characteristics, but I am baffled as to what is wrong with my first two bakes. The loaves lack much oven spring, no ear, no crust blister... | Here is my old Central Milling loaf results.
Good loaf.jpg |
MALIC ACID Smell in Einkorn Starter
Following Carla Bartolucci's directions for basic einkorn sourdough starter, I developed a couple of starters over the last few months. Only difference being, I used whole wheat einkorn instead of all purpose. One of the starters got a couple pale spots last week which were "veiny" i... | No smell
Well, it's not malic acid you can smell, being non volatile it has no real aroma, you can't actually smell it!Pear / apple aromas; more likely ethyl-acetate as it is a very common ester found in fermented wheat and cereals. |
Experimenting with young levain
I know this is a controversial technique but wanted to give it a shot. Made this loaf with a young levain fed at 1:10:10. The levain hadn't even doubled yet but easily passed the float test. Levain smelled mild / sweet at time of use. I can't say there's much of a difference in the ope... | That looks like a nice crumb
That looks like a nice crumb and a great oven spring. What do you bake them on? |
Some interesting observations about lievito madre
For this last week I've been making and nurturing a lievito madre. Started last Tuesday evening and tonight (exactly a week later) it's fully matured and has just been prepped for the first bread trial. The process I've followed was basically my own however it's now bei... | Interesting Abe, I can't
Interesting Abe, I can't quite picture what you mean about indentation and water, do you have a picture? |
Feeding ratios and impact on strength of starter
Hi all: I understand that increasing the feed ratio can impact the rise / peak time of a starter, but does it affect the strength of the starter itself? I've been feeding mine 1:1:1 and she has been fine and strong, but wondering if I should increase the ratio to build ... | The starter is at its maximum
The starter is at its maximum strength when it is at its peak of ripeness. Adding more of seed culture will only shorten the time to maturity. If you want a stronger starter you should give it the occasional feed of whole-rye flour or whole-wheat flour to pep it up. Temperature also affect... |
Sourdough Chocolate Babka
Tried the Sourdough Babka recipe from The Perfect Loaf over the weekend: https://www.theperfectloaf.com/sourdough-babka/I loved it! Chose the chocolate filling, which was the perfect amount of sweetness. Will plan on making another one with the cinnamon filling next. Highly recommend! | Looks like we are on the same track
Just posted my first Babka and then I saw yours. Aren’t they tasty?I much prefer your slice to mine. I think I need to dial back the filling.Have you tried freezing the bread after sliced? Since the bread is so rich, it will be eaten a little at a time. But that will definitely requi... |
Newb Question - bread not rising...
Hi all, I have what appears to be a fairly active starter, about 2 weeks old, fed daily, and doubles in size after feeding.But when I use it to try making sourdough, using AP flour, it hardly rises at all.I've read a couple of things that I'm confused about...Some places say that you... | Welcome, fellow Old Guy.
I are one, too. And also a relative newby.There are many variables in the sourdough process and the solution to your problem will require an exchange of information. I'll start you off:What is the average temperature in your dough preparation area?My kitchen is 68 to 72°F this time of year, too... |
Help with my sourdough pre ferment
Very new to sourdough but loving a new sourdough pizza recipe I have found. It calls for 50g sourdough starter, 100g of water and 100 flour to be mixed and fermented overnight. This is than used to make a dough. my question is what state should be sourdough starter be in when it is a... | Doesn't matter what state it
Doesn't matter what state it's in. It's not the same starter so expect things to be different than the "recipe". Enjoy! |
Flat as a pancake
Hello all -Looking for some help troubleshooting a problem. Over the last few months my breads have been failing to rise and I haven’t really changed anything in my method or recipe. Ive been keeping a close eye on my starter and it is rising/falling within 12hrs-doubling in height. The bread recipe i... | others have this pattern too.
You are probably not feeding the starter in a balanced "enough" fashion in terms of frequency and feeding ratio, in relation to what it _needs_. Therefore, it got weaker over time.Go to the user page for "phaz", and then his "Track" tab. Within the past 2 or 3 months he has given excellen... |
Converting Sourdough Panettone to Commercial Yeast?
Hi All,I was on a panettone baking kick this holiday season, and I had great luck using Ignio Massari's recipe here (in Italian) that uses fresh yeast and 4 different doughs. https://blog.giallozafferano.it/pastafantasiae/panettone-con-lievito-di-birra/Inspired, I tri... | I may have found a potential
I may have found a potential answer, but I'd still need to test it and I'd still like to hear other's opinions. The conversion from stiff starter (45% - 50%) to liquid starter (100% and what the Italians call licoli or li.co.li) is .66. Meaning, for every 1 gram stiff starter in a recipe, ... |
Osmotolerant starter vs lievito madre for pandoro
Hi Everyone,I am a long-time lurker but have recently become very interested in the microbiology of sour dough starters, and I have a question related to osmotolerance. This seems like the right place to ask as you are all so knowledgable!My understanding of the italia... | it is possible
i use an osmotolerant starter that successfully raises a panettone. it is 15% sugar, at 45% hydration.i wouldn't go too high, as after repeated feeding it starts getting... sticky. i haven't delved too much into the science behind that. but the 15% sugar stiff starter performs admirably well.i do keep... |
Father daughter photo
Like most any good father, Slow-Moe is by his daughter's side on her big day. At noon today, Valentina will receive a no discard 2:2:1 feeding, then she will levain her first bread ever! The bread I have chosen is a focaccia flatbread. Dad will be returning to cold storage after enjoying a father-... | The formula calls for rock salt
Hello, friends.Just a little behind schedule. The lievito Madre focaccia formula I am following calls for rock salt sprinkled on top with some olive oil before baking. I have only kosher salt. What is a supermarket, readily available salt I could use? Thanks for your help. The focaccia w... |
Proofing times and 100% rise for Tartine bread
I’ve been attempting the Tartine recipe for about a year now with varying degrees of success, little incremental improvements here and there, but never achieving a great rise. I persist because I do like the texture and taste. Following the recipe and going for only a 60%... | Not a Bad Bake
Your photo is not the easiest to use for a diagnosis (too much light in the background and not enough on the bread and also lacking some detail because of that), but the bake doesn't look bad. I can't tell whether the couple of large holes are from shaping or from too much fermentation (and not eliminat... |
SD bread translucent and too chewy?
Hi, I am new to baking sourdough bread. I have made few loaves, trying to make it more fluffy as seen on instagram posts of others instead of chewy and translucent crumb like what I am having so far.The recipe I am following is as below:75% bread flour5% whole-wheat20% all purpose72%... | Yeah, I would try reducing
Yeah, I would try reducing the bread flour and using more AP flour. Try something like 45% bread to 50% AP and see if you notice the difference.Good luck! |
My best Crumb so far...
One of my best achievement after almost 1 year and 2 months sourdough journey.. Anyone trying to achieve and open crumb? Try and proof/proved to its max or almost before it over proved. Recipe:350g Strong Bread Flour260g Water90g Starter(100% Hydration -90% Strong Bread Flour/10% Rye)7g Salt, I... | Congratulations on a
Congratulations on a beautiful loaf of bread. |
Quick discard starter pancake
Left over rye starter discard combined with a big pinch of baking soda, a sprinkle of salt and pepper and one egg (which in my case doubled the batter volume.) Mix with a fork and pour into a cold pan. Turn up the temp to medium high and sprinkle the flattening pancakebread with green oni... | Also good with crab meat
and onions orchocolate chips or sprinkles (no onions) ornuts or broken cookies orchilies and cheese orlachsetc. |
My starter has become very strong
Put together a Hamelman levain at 8pm100% bread flour 125% water20% starterRecommended time is 12-16 hours. Within 4 hours it was very active. 6 hours and it's peaked, with bubbles bursting through the surface and has a lovely aroma (almost sherbet like). Question is should I just leav... | The Hamelman formula of 20%
The Hamelman formula for the levain build is 20% starter for 12-16 hrs is temperature reliant of 21C/70F. Higher temperatures will ripen faster, lower temperatures will take longer. Mine takes 14 hours at 21C, 20% starter. What temperature are you using?If you want to slow it down you can de... |
Murph's 1st Bake of 2021
Formula100% flour67% water10% levain2% salt179% total 500g Loaf257g flour179g water40g pre-ferment at 85% hydration6g saltTotal 512gProcessWatch the dough not the clock Bake at 232°C (450°F) 15 minutes covered in a Dutch oven 15 minutes uncoveredI am not bitterly disappointed but thought I cou... | My thoughts?
Excellent! What a great start to 2021. That loaf looks delicious, Murph. |
1st 2021 bake Hamelman's 5 grain levain
Hamelman's Five-Grain Levain is always a winner in my book. A perfect recipe to get 2021 off to a good [baking] start. A few tweaks to make do with ingredients I had in stock. Substituted the whole-wheat for wholegrain kamut. Instead of cracked rye I used pearled spelt cracked in... | Abe's 1st Bake of 2021
Wow! A nice pan bread for lazy, crazy sandwich-making over the holiday! Perfect!Nice rise over the pan!I was reading through the Community Challenge to check the hydration and degree of difficulty. 98% hydration?!?Yeeks!Many of those bakers said the dough hydration handled more like mid to low 70... |
Flour + water = stretchy, sticky, weird mess
Hello everyone and Happy new year!This is the first time this has happened to me so I'm counting on the community's expertise on this one.My dough transformed into a complete mess after autolyse . It was stringy, stuck like glue, almost like trying to knead 100% rye dough. N... | Happy New Year
I'm not a fan of extended autolyse but 5 hours shouldn't be the cause of what you experienced. So that aside is it possible you miscalculated the hydration? And what flour are you using? |
Too sticky / moist
My bread comes out too sticky / moist (in some areas more than others). Just to give you an idea, this is what my bread knife looks like slicing into it 7 hours after taking it out of the oven:This makes it very challenging to slice...I've been gradually reducing the heat due to my gas oven burning t... | Great looking crust
What’s the crumb looks like? Would you say it is gummy? Using any diastatic malt? What else in the formula?Benito here uses a crumpled foil filled baking tray under the Dutch oven as a heat shield with success. Search for his posts on that. |
Adding Levain Stage...How Flexible on the “When?”
I know there are those who dissolve starter (levain) into the water, add the flour, and there’s your dough (salt to be mixed in a little later). But there are also those who mix up flour and water, let it rest, then add in the starter (levain), and a little later the sa... | The fridge is your friend
Why not refrigerate the levain till ready to use? |
Blisters and shiny crust
How do fermentation and proofing promote blisters and shiny, caramelized crust (other variables being equal)?This is a DO loaf I just baked and I wish to gauge whether or not I can replicate this every time. Thanks. | Teresa Greenway has a ...
Playlist of 5 videos for blisters. Numbers 2, 3, and 5 are public, numbers 1 & 4 are private/pay. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDqMWhgSTguFIDx4AdxdsjImf_c6aWCLBThere is another video of her "how to make blisters" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeEcgmGGbBs |
Tartine Country Loaf 2nd Attempt
This is my second attempt at the Tartine Country Loaf. Overall, I'd say that it turned out ok. The flavor matches that of the Tartine loaves exactly, but the crumb is much more dense and the loaf is heavier than it should be. I can't tell if this is from under or overproofing. As I'... | Second attempt?
Excellent! What could you try next? Perhaps being a bit more adventurous with the bulk ferment. Looks like it could be further improved with more time. |
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