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from people who do monetized content operations that might be reviewing advertisements on platforms, to people that are processing legal requests, and-
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... a lot of mixed understanding of the professional field, and who does the-
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we're hoping that we can really play a pivotal role there. a little bit-
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a bunch of different resources that we hope to put out as a trust and safety professional association that will really support folks who are navigating challengers, really-
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... conversation about wellness and ptsd.
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i think the association could be a really good place where we start to develop best practices around that and help guide the folks who are at the front lines in thinking-
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another thing that we could do is support managers of these teams to understand what's the playbook for when someone on your team might get [inaudible 00:08:35]-
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how do you step in and make sure that your folks feel psychologically and physically safe?
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great. yeah. there's a lot there, but-
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... clara, do you want to talk about the foundation side?
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... launching a sibling foundation called the trust and safety foundation project. and the goal of the foundation really is to help society understand-
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there's a lot of people that work perpendicular to this, whether this includes-
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this might include academics and people -
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... who are studying this topic, but it may or may not be their day to day, but-
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... we have found that it is really hard to help uplift the trust and safety professional field without improved understanding of it. and you-
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right.there's a lot of manual review, and we're here to really-
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the foundation arm is really there to not only educate the public better on operational-
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... practices. one example is-
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so similar to how 15, 20 years ago there was no collective space for private-
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... [inaudible 00:06:12], i think this is our moment for trust and safety professionals to come together. so that was-
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... there are these two other areas that we hope to dive into. the first of-
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... the two would be training and resources for folks who are wanting to get deeper into the domain expertise of trust and safety-
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... ins and outs of section 230, not from a legal perspective. i know there's a lot of-
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[inaudible 00:06:43], but understanding section 230 from the-
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... the perspective of a trust and safety professional, or a reviewer-
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... for example. i think another example of this would be knowing how the conversation around moderation has changed over the past few years. and-
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... online. i think that stuff like that is really interesting and important context for anyone who,-
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... particularly a content review role.
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and then i would add to that and say that for us trust-
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... and safety, isn't just about content review, even though it's very-
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... much in the forefront of conversation right now. trust-
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... and safety is a very broad field that also includes the folks who do a lot of forensics on accounts to identify really, really-
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... bad accounts, or look out for payment fraud or-
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... spam.so we've opted to take a pretty inclusive view of what trust and safety is beyond content review itself.
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... while the foundation is designed to educate about the-
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... the trust and safety space.and i should mention that techdirt's think tank arm, the copia institute, is now working with the trust and safety foundation to create a library-
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... of content moderation case studies. and we're very excited to be working on that. so today-
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... also excited to have two of the founding board members of both organizations. and these two members are also the forces behind putting these organizations together.
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so thanks to both of you for coming on the podcast.
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yeah. so i guess maybe good context would be for me to just back up a little bit and talk a little bit about my background and how i came to-
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... support the trust and safety professional association. for the last 10 years or so-
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... started out at google working on ads policies there.
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i ended up doing ads policy work at twitter, and most recently was at pinterest where i headed up the policy function.
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excuse me. and so for the last 10 years or so i've been both a content reviewer, a policy developer, as well as a manager of teams of people-
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... who do that work. and so throughout my career, i've been really interested in looking for ways that people who work in the trust and safety space could really advance their practice.
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... [inaudible 00:05:30]. when this opportunity came up about a year and change ago to build the trust and safety foundation-
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... we came up with the three pillars are-
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number one, we wanted to really create a sense of community for the trust and safety professionals who do this work.
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i think in the past, the group has been dispersed or siloed. there's a lot of-
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... informal connections, but no formal space where people could really come together.
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... and i fear that if people play it down and don't raise the alarm, that when it is time to do the political horse trading that happens on these app -
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seriously, seriously.anyways, well, given all that, i have taken enough of your time, but i appreciate it.i know that that you and i could-
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... and right now it's pretty scary given how many attacks are going on. and the earn it is perhaps the most serious of those. and it's, as you said, if it was voted out of committee-
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and thank you to everyone for listening to all of this. and hopefully for speaking out as well and-
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.... section 230 of the cda. but one area that doesn't get nearly as much attention is the actual people-
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... making these decisions, a group that is now under the general umbrella of trust and safety.
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people seem to think that content moderation decisions are actually done by the ceos of the various social media companies.and the number of times that we see people complain-
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... ing directly to, or about mark zuckerberg or jack dorsey due to a bad take down decision, seems to erase the whole trust and safety role-
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... difficult to impossible trade offs that come up in making-
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... such a team should function, and also how to protect the workers doing that kind of work.
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indeed the very concept of a trust and safety team and trust and safety staff is a relatively new-
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... thing. and it's only recently that companies have-
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... begun to realize that it's even a career space.
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and that's why i was so excited, not too long ago, to learn about a new organization or rather-
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... professional organization for trust and safety employees-
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but it's yeah. the whole thing has been kind of exhausting. and i know that outside of this podcast, you and i have had discussions about-
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... to pop up.right. and you know, i've said it's like a ddos attack on our attention.right.and energy, right. there's a hundred senators. and there's just-
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... one of you or just one of me. and, when it comes to bills like these because there's so many and they're coming so fast and furious, there's-
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... always the question for those of us who would oppose them to think, well, how much effort do we-right.... spend on this one? do we ignore it and let it sink-
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and that is also supposedly the case with the laed bill.mm-hmm (affirmative).which is, okay, this is just this crazy extreme thing that got introduced and it's-
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... not supposed to go anywhere, but it suggests to me that we need to continue to fight this. i thought, okay, sesta-fosta isn't going go anywhere. this is nuts.
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and i thought the same thing about the australian anti-encryption bill.yes.that got passed at the end of 2018, on which i think there are parts of-
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...the laed act that are clearly modeled on that. and i sort of thought too, oh, this is just not going to happen. right?. so, we're going to... and then it passed.
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right.even though it was very unpopular, there were a lot of people crying out against it. and it's had this sort of negative effects on the tech economy down there that were predicted-
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... to happen. and, so it seems to me that we can't necessarily afford to just rest on our laurels and, there's efforts underway-
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... to try and oppose both of these bills. i signed onto a coalition letter spearheaded by the internet society that came out this morning to oppose the laed act that was-
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... sent to the three sponsors of the bill. and there are also efforts underway to try and help people contact their senators and-
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now, i guess if it looks like this might move out of the senate into the house, i'll have to contact their house of representatives members as well. and so to-
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... throw it out there, you can go to noearnitact.org in order to contact your congress people and let them know that you oppose the earn act. you can always throw in opposition-
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...to the led act too, while you're at it.right. yeah. and this is one of those things where even these bills that seem crazy and seem like they have no chance-
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... and so, it's something that we need to be aware of. and that's why i've gone through that whole thing, where is it worth talking about a bill that appears to have no chance and-
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... that it sort of boggles the mind that anybody would fall for this. but the problem with the laed act bill-
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... is that it does what no piece of legislation has gone so far as to do over the last six years where we've seen repeated attempts occasionally both in congress and in the states-
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... even includes some kind of insulting language in the early preamble sort of sense of congress section that this says like encryption is used by criminals. no encryption is used by-
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... reasonable, but also coming in the heels of two particular phenomena that have sprung up since earn it itself was introduced in march. one of which is the coronavirus, where we're all working-
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... from home. not everybody, my sister's an or nurse, and she's like, "who's this everybody that you're talking about." many people are working from home.yes.we have to be on zoom all-
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... day, every day, or on signal or on messenger, what have you. a lot more activity is taking place online because we can't have the face to face-
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... conversations that previously would've guaranteed a greater modicum of privacy and security than just picking up the phone and calling somebody. and so in terms of the need to-
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... with policing, racist policing.mm-hmm (affirmative).and structural racism and police violence in the united states. and so to come out with a bill that just says, encryption is for criminals-
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... and we're going to crack down on the use of encryption and to give greater powers to law enforcement is also extremely tone deaf, or maybe right on tone, as you mentioned.
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... from a cybersecurity perspective and from a broad call for reforms to the criminal justice system perspective, this bill could not be worse timed.
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yeah. it's really incredible. it's just, i mean, we've seen other attempts and like a few years ago, feinstein and burr had their anti encryption bill, but this-
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... is illegal and should be blocked. and they were major lobbyists in favor of sesta-fosta and have lobbied in favor-
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... me stuff anyways, saying like, oh, you know, now that this bill is out, which we support, to end encryption that proves that the earn it.
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like this big game that they're playing to try and get some of these things through.right.and just keep throwing more and more attempts at doing something. and i think-
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... again, a lot of it is very performative and grandstanding and the, you know, there's something bad that we must do something. this is something, we will do it.right.
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... but it is something i don't get something that you can quietly sit in the corner and not say something about right now.
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And so I'm still having a hard time believing it. What I am willing to accept right now.
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Yeah, it's a pretty good bet that there's a lot of big coins that are just gone forever.
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... world has offices in the future, but you're going to want them-
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