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that's giving too much credit to
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the positive symbiosis between fans and media corporations
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right now. it's kind of predicated on the fact that everyone's playing nice. say that stuff,
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what's her name, snow snowy ice dragon or whatever snow.
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no, but i'm not actually sure that we're building up to the first ever- because like i said, the wind done gone is a great example of something like this happening.
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james had written 50 shades of gray and stephenie meyer was deeply offended by bdsm.that would have been such a different story if, you know, he'd sued her.
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anyway, i think something here is we agree that this is a precarious position. i'm naturally more inclined to be a pragmatist than anything.you mean a capitalist because you have money.
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so, that's my response to that.to that part of it.to that part of it. because then there was the other part, which was about what meredith was saying.
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that, and i think that we are maybe headed in that direction.
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we can both learn by meeting somewhere in the middle. i think that's an adult way to describe that.but when i was editing the meredith episode, the whole time, i was like,
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"why didn't i say anything? i disagree with everything you're saying". i remember at one point we were pushing back on something, and she was like, "well, you guys come-
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and which, let me tell you, i love my date with one direction. i would go on a date with all of one direction.
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Female
well, i do think that she comes from very much more of the video end of things. so i don't think that i share the same perspective as she does.it's true, that one part that we did-
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no one's going to publish the more challenging stuff that really does go against norms until you see people taking it seriously as literature and publishing.
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cut out, was the part where she talked about her history with harry potter. and it was so completely different from mine or yours.
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i encountered this too, when i went to geekycon. the way that a lot of people there were engaging with the books was very different than people who weren't transformative in them. it's not better versus just different.
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all right. so we [inaudible 00:01:43] talking about contests, that movie studios-
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what happens when people start writing stories that really offend them?i feel like we talked about it.
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and i thought that elsa's point was really nuanced because she was saying that there's a difference between writers and readers and how much they're reliant on canon. from my perspective,
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i don't know that i would say we have to give money to big mega media corporations in order to get canon, because i think that there's a lot of things that are smaller that can produce canon, for instance, the lizzie bennet-
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-diaries.i mean, that was not a mega, multi-million dollar, media chalant, right. it's not the avengers franchise.
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it is. and that's why you know to look for fan section about it.
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so you agree, we both agree with, i was on this point, right? i feel like there's so many people who joined fandoms with a distant connection to the source material because you get so invested in the-
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[inaudible 00:02:39], right.i agree with her on that point. i just think that there has to be like a critical mass, in order for there to be fandom.
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yeah. i definitely, not me personally, but i definitely encountered a lot of people who will read a good story in any fandom. and they don't-
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it doesn't necessarily have to be a mega media conglomerate, but i do think that there has to be some amount of
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if somebody writes a fanfic that really truly challenge, and this is the wind-
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done gone, was a big deal. was that the wind-
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done gone, was a literary work that had a powerful publisher behind it. a direct challenge to the literary estate of gone with the wind.
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on the front page of the atlantic, in a discussion,
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when does the atlantic publish fiction on the front page?no, i mean a discussion of-
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debated in the pages of the atlantic. when we see that happening, when we see that conversation happening, then that's when we're going to have a fight.
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there has to be some kind of like cultural power behind fanfic that's more than just people on the internet.
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that's giving too much credit to the publishing industry and literary establishment.
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i think that this could happen just as easily with movies and television.
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i don't think this has to have anything to do with books.
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that has nothing to do with the production cycle. that show is done, even though they didn't officially end it, it's over. i think that-
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but i'm not actually sure that we're like building up to the first ever, because like i said, the wind done gone is a great example of, of something like this happening.
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sure. but if that's not a part of modern networked media fandom either.it's not.
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i see elsa's point, but i also feel, again, you cannot make an avengers movie without a huge budget. and in order for that-
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you have to have a lot of people buying into it, paying for it.
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and that means fans giving their money to mega conglomerates. to save our show campaigns means going out and buying, what show was it, was it chuck that went to subway and bought like-
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"chuck, they just saved our show campaign", and they went and bought subway sandwiches because subway was the major advertiser and they got another season of the show. right? like it's, it's completely-
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another season of the show. i don't want another season of torchwood. their going to fuck it up again.
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we agree this is a precarious position. i'm naturally more inclined to be a pragmatist than anything.
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you're frustrating me and all these people aren't engaging me. and i still respect you and i thank you for these books, but the conversation that has sprung up around it was so much richer than the actual texts at that point.
O
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trying to be a pragmatist than some people. perhaps than elizabeth. so...
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i thought you were about to subtweet me and then you just said my name out loud. i don't...
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we completely could. thank you so much, elsa. it was a wonderful, wonderful question.yeah. and we really appreciate it and the-
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... recording too. very well intoned.
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because then there was the other part, which was about what meredith was saying.
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i was really pleased that elsa brought this up, because... and i think i mentioned this and i don't think meredith would mind me saying this, because i think she knows we come from very...
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the other day. i think you and i come from the exact opposite ends of the spectrum. and we can both learn by meeting somewhere in the middle.
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i think that's an adult way to describe that.
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the meredith episode. the whole time i was like, "why didn't i say anything?" i just...
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well, i do think that she comes from very much more the video end of things. so, i don't think that i share the same perspective as she does.
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it's true. that one part that we did cut out was the part where she talked about her history with harry potter. and it was so completely different from mine or yours.
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i encountered this too when i went to say geekycon. the way-
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... they were engaging with the books was very different than people who are in transformative fandom. it's not better or worse. it's just different.
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i know. our schedules are so crazy.
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it's not a mega multi-million dollar media conglomerate.right.it's not the avengers franchise.
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it's that there have to be sourced texts that a lot of people are familiar with in order for fandom to film it. right? because in order for readers to be showing up there...
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watch supernatural, but you know what it is. and that's why you know to look for fan fiction about it.
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so, we both agree with [azana's 00:08:32] point, right?
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i feel like there's so many people who joined fandoms with a distant connection to the source material, because you get so invested in the fandom, right?
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on that point, i just think that there has to be a critical mass in order for there to be a fandom.
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yeah, but i definitely... not me personally, but i've definitely encountered a lot of people who will read a good story in any fandom and they don't care about the source material.all i'm saying is-
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... that i think that for writers, there needs to be a community around the source material that's large enough for them to keep engaging.
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i don't think it has to be incredibly large. it doesn't have to be the size of-no.... supernatural or sherlock, or...
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no, not at all, but there does have to be some amount of following. so, if it doesn't necessarily have to be a mega...
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i do think that there has to be some amount of... it can't just be entirely one-to-one, because then it's no longer...
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it's obviously huge. and i went to comic con and i was like, "oh, here it is." but it appeals to me as someone to study it, but not to participate in it.
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you have to have a lot of people buying into it, paying for it, and that means fans giving their money to...
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and they went and bought subway sandwiches, because subway was the major advertiser and they got another season of the show. right? it's completely...
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i want another season of the show. i don't want to know a season of torchwood. i'm going to fuck it up again.
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my feelings about the x-files, where i'm on this constant roller coaster-
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... oh, it looks so terrible. i don't think i want this, but it's-
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i feel like we could talk about this for like 18,000 hours-
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we completely could. thank you so much, [inaudible 00:00:32] , it was a wonderful, wonderful question. and-yeah, and we i really-
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... and the recording, too. very well intoned.
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hi, amanda.how's it going?good. how are you doing?i-
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it's true, it's true. amanda is the meme librarian.
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that's your branding, always, right? that's not just the name of your job. [crosstalk 00:00:54] the name of your job, is it?
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can you go back and just tell me all those librarian names again. wait, [inaudible 00:01:00], is that a tattooed librarian?
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i wish, no, it was it 2008, 2009. it was all the people who were like newfound glory isn't pop punk.
H
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... for the year or so, because i feel like sometimes... i'm creepy... sometimes-
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yeah, exactly. now it's a much bare community. i think people really started joining tumblr in 2011.
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i ended up having to drop my thesis in linguistics, and it completely changed the trajectory of the rest of my undergrad career.
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yeah, so just thinking critically about why these things become memes-
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... technical. it's like, "oh, okay."
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... and the moderators have their spaces on the internet and they don't really go out into everything else.
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you know, you can have one site that tracks only the things that get the absolute largest, absolute most traction, just purely out of numbers.
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and i think that is super important that communities should be self-
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archiving. and like, it's your local library.
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i was trying to find the history of trender man, have you ever seen that?
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it's just a mannequin without a face. so it looks like slender man.
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and i never thought i would have those feelings either in here i am, having them.
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active tumblr user. and also i think you come from a different perspective fan wise.
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then flourish and i do. i know you're not really historically into like fan fiction.
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literal oof, literal oof, that we crawled out of.to be fair...
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