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(in answer to Amruth Laxman
Apart from the fact that you get G in the pull-out, not the dive, that
figure is about right for sustained G, no protection.
The duration of G, it's rate of onset, body position and support aids are
all critical parts of the equation. I remember one note about instrumented
gridiron players recording peaks about 200G. Stapp, the aviation doctor,
either by accident or design, took a short-period 80G in a rocket-sled
decelleration, eye-balls-out against a standard (1950's) harness. It had
to be short, calculate the stopping time, even from 500 - 600mph at that
G. A bang-seat can get up to about 60 G, and you'd better be sitting
straight. Find the book by Martin-Bakers human guinea pig to hear how bad
it can get if the rate of onset is too high. A reclining position and a
good G-suit can keep a pilot functioning at around 12G.
A flotation tank should be a good bet, since you can treat the body as a
fluid, and high-pressure situations are not new. Anyone have any figures?
| 12
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6,801
|
I have this same alarm installed in my Syclone. It works great. The shock
sensor is very sensitive, but much more practical than the motion sensor I have
on my other car. It doesn't trigger if the car is rocked gently by the wind,
but any kind of shock sets it off. Even kicking the tire sets it off. It
works great.
The shock sensor is adjustable and there are two cycles on it. You can adjust
it to be sensitive enough that there is no way you could open the hood without
setting off the alarm. Although, I know that you cannot pop the hood on the
Syclone without setting off my alarm now, and yet I have had zero (none!) false
alarms with this system. The alarm tells you when you disarm it whether it has
been activated in your absence. I have been able to trace every alarm to it's
cause and it was not a false alarm.
I guess it would be possible depending on the vehicle. My Syclone is so tight
in the engine compartment that it would be tough to do this. There are
supplemental power supplies you can put on with this Viper alarm, but I don't
have one. I really think that if someone wants my car that bad, the alarm
won't keep them from it, even with a supplemental power supply.
This is primarily for convertibles. I have a convertible and have looked at
this feature in detail. Alpine actually makes a better radar unit if you want
to get one of these. It has zones in it that can be shut down independently so
that if one side of your car has pedestrian traffic or something else that
would trigger an alarm, it shuts down the zone, or rather, pulls it in tighter.
I don't see the real benefit to these unless you have a convertible that you
leave the top down on.
Avoid the voice alarm that can be added to the radar package. It talks to
people as they walk by. I saw one installed on a Lotus Esprit. The kids would
taunt it seeing how close they could get before it 'warned' them to get back.
The owner finally disabled it, which defeats the purpose in my mind.
I am real happy with my Viper. One other feature I really like is you can tune
it to your preferences. You can have it arm passively or not. You can disable
the chirp for arming/disarming. You can have it lock/unlock the doors when the
alarm is armed/disarmed.
I like these features. I hate the chirp when the alarm arms/disarms, so mine
flashes the lights only. I like the door lock feature, although I have to be
careful to take my keys with me because it doesn't know if you have left your
keys in the car when it passively arms and locks the doors. But, if you are
meticulous about taking your keys with you, it takes care of the rest.
I looked seriously at the Alpine system too. It is a real nice system, but
more money and it has a motion sensor standard instead of the shock sensor.
The shock sensor is better....and the Viper shock sensor is better (2 cycle)
than the optional Alpine one, IMHO. I think the Viper gives you a lot of good
value for the money. But it isn't absolutely tamperproof. No system is.
Except maybe the one that James Bond had on his Lotus in For Your Eyes Only.
Anyone know where we can get one of those installed? Maybe that was what they
had in the van in the World Trade Center, huh?>
| 4
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6,802
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There are two different mechanisms here: toning of muscles and reduction of
fat. Exercises specific to particular muscles will tone only those muscles
exercised (example: look at differences in arm circumferences between pitching
arms and non-pitching arms in major league pitchers). However, if exercise
also leads to reduction of body fat, the loss of body fat will be equally
distributed over the entire body. There is no way to "spot reduce" body fat
other than surgically, through liposuction. Distribution of body fat is
genetically determined. Sometimes a very flabby muscle will look like "fat",
so when that muscle gains some muscle tone it may *appear* as though the "fat"
is "changing" into "muscle", but really fat and muscle tissues are totally
separate, and one does not ever "change into" the other.
| 9
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6,803
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:Lighter fluid is butane. It's absolutely non-toxic but is an extreme fire
^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:hazard. You definately don't want to go splashing this stuff around.
:(Use a little on an old rag.)
Butane : "A colourless flammable gaseous alkane..."
Non-toxic? It has some effects when you inhale, allegedly, which can't all be down
to asphyxia (IMHO).
---
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6,804
|
Does anyone have a manual for an Artec 14" NI monitor? I need the
specs. Thanks.
Rob Malouf
malouf@csli.stanford.edu
| 5
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|
rh> From: house@helios.usq.EDU.AU (ron house)
rh> Newsgroups: alt.atheism
rh> Organization: University of Southern Queensland
rh> I _know_ I shouldn't get involved, but... :-)
rh> [bit deleted]
[rest of rant deleted]
This is a standard argument for fundies. Can you spot the falicy? The
statement is arguing from the assumption that Jesus actually existed. So far,
they have not been able to offer real proof of that existance. Most of them
try it using the (very) flawed writings of Josh McDowell and others to prove
it, but those writers use VERY flawed sources. (If they are real sources at
all, some are not.) When will they ever learn to do real research, instead of
believing the drivel sold in the Christian bookstores.
rh> Righto, DAN, try this one with your Cornflakes...
rh> The book says that Muhammad was either a liar, or he was
rh> crazy ( a modern day Mad Mahdi) or he was actually who he
rh> said he was. Some reasons why he wouldn't be a liar are as
rh> follows. Who would die for a lie? Wouldn't people be able
rh> to tell if he was a liar? People gathered around him and
rh> kept doing it, many gathered from hearing or seeing how his
rh> son-in-law made the sun stand still. Call me a fool, but I
rh> believe he did make the sun stand still.
rh> Niether was he a lunatic. Would more than an entire nation
rh> be drawn to someone who was crazy. Very doubtful, in fact
rh> rediculous. For example anyone who is drawn to the Mad
rh> Mahdi is obviously a fool, logical people see this right
rh> away.
rh> Therefore since he wasn't a liar or a lunatic, he must have
rh> been the real thing.
Nice rebutal!
| 14
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6,806
|
[ Article crossposted from sdnet.forsale,rec.motocycle ]
[ Author was Michael James ]
[ Posted on 21 Apr 1993 15:39:50 GMT ]
I must sell my motorcycle...:( it is a '83 GR650, Tempter.
It has 20K miles and runs well.
Includes a cover and tank bag..
I'm asking $700 for it all.
E-mail me if you want to take a look at it.
--
******************************************************************************** Michael James james@mintaka.sdsu.edu
PA-128 594-2469
294-9845(H)
********************************************************************************
| 0
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6,807
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Greets,
I have an IC I need help in identifying. It is an 8-pin IC with the following
label: W03563 9144w4
ANY help would be greatly appreciated in identifying this chip.
Kevin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kevin Jones KPJONE01@ULKYVX.CT.LOUISVILLE.EDU
Lab Supervisor KPJONE01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU
Computing and Telecommunications PHONE: 502-588-6303
University of Louisville, KY FAX: 502-588-0150
| 15
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6,808
|
Here's a few two-sport star trivia questions. I'll admit they're not
too difficult, but a bit challenging nevertheless.
Mail me your answers please; or post them.
1. Which pitcher played for the Harlem Globetrotters?
2. Which major leaguer briefly tried professional golf in 1978?
3. Which does Dieon Sanders have more of (professionally):
career touchdowns or triples?
4. Has there been any player of both pro hockey and baseball?
If so, name him and the years he played each.
If you have any other two-sport star tidbits, feel free to include them.
| 11
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6,809
|
Shareware is available from the net, magazines, distributors, clubs,
friends, and bulletin boards. I don't think people have any problems
getting hold of it.
Fill gaps in Dos? There's no need for many people - Dos 5 provides
more services than I need as it is. I just run Windows on top of it.
BTW, my Windows must be an operating system - it provides a Disk
Operating System that Dos can't access. (NFS...) :-)
| 17
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|
I do not think they can use the eavesdropping as evidence at all. However,
using the info they gather while listening, they can go searching THE right
place and find good, strong evidence, which they can use in court.
Question : currently, it is easy to wire-tap, from the technical point of
view, at least. Anybody using the appropriate radio receiver can listen
to communications between a car-telephone and the ground station. The police
also, obviously. The clipper chip will make it much more difficult for the
non-authorized person to eavesdrop (note that I DO NOT write << impossible>> ).
The privacy will thus improve from the current situation. Poeple who REALLY
have something to hide already DO NOT use the phone to speak of these things.
If an illegal operation is really worth, one can afford having critical data
carried by a person rather than sending it electronically.
The clipper chip will not change this.
The problem is more politic. Foreign countries will never accept the clipper
chip is the access to the escrow cannot be directly granted to their own
police following their OWN law, not the US law. i.e. each country will have
its own escrow. How then will it be possible to monitor the international
traffic? or, will encrypted international traffic be possible ? or will there
be an international escrow, some kind of U.N. thing ?
Forbidding crypted communication is impractical: how is it possible to spot
a crypted communication in the thousands of megabytes of data which circulate
on the various existing networks. What about private networks ? And this will
be more and more impossible as the volume of electronic traffic will increrase
in the next years.
I think that the clipper chip can only be an interesting device to limit the
risk of , for instance, one's girlfriend's husband listening to his wife's
communications. It will bring no more as regards to security. Is it worth ?
I think so if its cost is limited, I think that many privacy invasions are done
not only by official services, but also by private entities. The clipper can
help reducing these. Provided we do not hope too much of it, it is not a real
danger and it can be helpful.
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<KIME.93Apr20133127@mongoose.torolab.ibm.com> <mjones.735335684@fenway>
Organization: Eskimo North (206) 367-3837 {eskimo.com}
Yeah, Morris just knows how to win. That's why he lost 18 for Detroit in
1990. Funny how he wins a lot of games when he pitches on good teams but
loses a lot when he pitches on bad ones. And if "rings" was the only
criteria for success, then teams would always tend to repeat, and
eventually you'd have the same team win the WS every bleepin' year. Sort
of like the yanks in the 50s.
Morris is a decent pitcher on the downside of a good, not great, career.
Toronto will finish 3rd or 4th this year, with Morris and all those
rings, because their pitching staff was destroyed over the off-season.
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|
OK. Lets look into this.
According to my dictionary,
Zi-on-ism: an international movement orig. for the establishment of a Jewish
national or religious community in Palestine and later for the support of
modern Israel.
Now, I do not support the establishment of nations based on religious
principles, while I support the establishment of nations based on cultural
identities.
So. Here are some questions I have to ask for anyone to answer. My point
is what someone said long time ago: In politics, like with men, it is important
to distiguish between what they say they do and what they are actually
doing.
1) My mother is Jewish (and so is my father). If I apply for the Law of
Return, do I get in as a Jew trying to return to his land, from which my
family was expelled about 2000 years ago?
2) If I go back, which nationality would my ID show?
3) If I decided to go back to the land from which my relatives had been
expelled 2000 years ago, but first I convert to any other religion, can I
apply to the law of Return as a member of the Jewish Nation or should I
apply as someone whose mother is Jewish?
4) Which nationality would show my ID in case 3)?
5) What has change in me between the day before and the day after I converted
to loose my being part of the Jewish Nation?
6) Suppose I want to get married to my current wife, who is non-Jewish in
Israel, how do I do it?
7) How would my situation change if I decided, after going back to
Israel, to convert to Islam?
Now, here is one more question. I do believe that most people in a country
do not care about politics. They just want to be left alone.
Suppose my father is Arab. Suppose he was born in Palestine, in some place
which now is part of Israel. Suppose that his father, and his grandfather as
well as 20 or 30 generations before him were born in that place.
Now suppose there is a war of independence and my father, scared by all the
fighting going on, tries to take his family to a place more secure, among
people he knows, who speak a language he understands, who worship the same
god. Now, suppose that that place is some other Arab country.
And, now suppose that the war is over and that there is a new country created
where my father used to live, and that that country is called Israel.
And, that in that country, Jews from all over the world are received. And
that people whose family left thet country 200 generation ago are recieved and
granted full-citizenship.
Should I, if I decided to go back to my father's land, where he was born as
20 or 30 generations of my family were born, have the right to go back and
ask to be recognized in the same way those who are returning after 2000
years?
Then, finally, people ask me how I would define a Jew, but that is irrelevant.
I am not talking about how I would define a Jew, but about how people in
Zionist organizations, and more important, in Israel, define a Jew.
How would those who are Zionist define a Jew?
| 2
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6,813
|
let me clarify, i think they both are 2.0 litres.
| 4
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6,814
|
: [... SQUIDS ...]
: I felt embarassed at this point to be a motorcyclist. I felt the eyes of those
: in cages, witnessing this display, then glancing over to the dealers lot and
: damning all those on two wheels. Needless to say, my friend felt a little
: uncomfortable and we left.
Did you express your embarrassment to the owner? I don't blame you for being
embarrassed, but I would have let my feeling be known that the behaviour of
their sales staff and apparent enjoyment of such behaviour just cost them
a sale and all further sales.
: I will now turn off my frustration and go ride... peacefully, to clear my
: anger. I only hope that the cop who is following me home, has an open
: mind and doesn't associate me with them.
Sound good. Enjoy.
: BTW, I can't afford a new bike.....
Who can?
| 0
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6,815
|
I need help finding XCMDs to control a CD-ROM drive
from Aldus Supercard 1.6. The Apple Hypercard CD-ROM
Toolkit does not work. Aldus has no clue. Apple has no clue.
Berkeley MUG and Boston MUG won't return any phone calls.
My local user group has no idea. HELP!
Commercial or shareware is fine...
Please reply by email: clee@theporch.raider.net
THANKS!
| 10
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|
Look out... We have the beginnings of a donnybrook between one of them
liberal, artsy-fartsy western schools and an ossified, establishment
eastern university. :-)
| 2
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6,817
|
...in other words faith in a .357 is far stronger than faith in a
God providing a miracle for his followers. Interesting. Now, if
David Korresh was God, why couldn't he use lightning instead of
semi-automatic rifles? It seems even he didn't trust in himself.
Cheers,
Kent
| 8
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6,818
|
If a manual transmission is a "must have", then the M-B 300TE is not in
the running. You cannot get a manual transmission in that car in North
America. It seems that buyers here (or, maybe more accurately, the
distributors) are not interested in manual trannies.
The '93 300 line comes with a 217 hp engine. All earlier years are 177 hp.
I have an '87 300E, with a "mere" 177 hp and auto tranny, and I find that
it has sufficient power for any normal driving situation. More is always
nice, but I can't complain.
I test drove a Saab 900 CSE last fall. Here are my impressions:
1) Awesome power, especially over 3500rpm, when the turbo really comes on.
2) If you get on the power really hard in a tight corner, the front-wheel
drive causes it to understeer heavily, and then viciously "hook" into
the corner. Not a desirable handling trait, but common in powerful
front drive cars. (The CSE is 200hp. Mercedes is rear-drive, so it
does not have this problem.)
3) Huge interior and cargo space.
4) The most "rubbery" shifter I have ever encountered. I drove a 5spd. It
was absolutely numb. You might be able to get used to it - I don't know.
I also didn't like its location, which was too far down, and too far right.
From the shifter's position, I got the impression that Saab really designed
the car for an automatic.
5) It was rather noisy: Engine buzz, rattles, and creaks. (Mercedes does
not exhibit these characteristics.)
You should also check out the new BMW 525 "touring". This is a wagon version
of the 525i. It fits into the class with the 300TE and Saabs.
| 4
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|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nah .... if MS Windows 3.1 were an operating system, so would be
X-windows, motif, geoworks , desqview, the shareware Win-Boss C library
and that what's-it's-name text-based windowing system written in Applesoft
that ran on the old-faithful Apple II ... [ note the similarity? all
of the above rely on some underlying real OS .... ]
IMHO, they are windowing systems, and just that. [ some are
cooler than others though ... ]
| 17
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|
I'm getting tired of these wimpy Liberals whining about gun control,
too! Ya know, the Second Amendment says
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a
free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms,
shall not be infringed.
Now, notice, it says *arms*. Not guns. Arms.
The Comsymp ZOG wants you to think that it is the only legitimate
possessor of nuclear weapons. Unconstitutional! You and I have just
as much right to a kilogram or two of nice weapons grade plutonium as
any cruddy little pointy headed liberal Los Alamos pinkos.
Support your right to keep and bear short range nuclear weapons. It's
a legitimate and challenging sport.
And screw the limit.
spl
| 19
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6,821
| 5
|
|
6,822
|
Has anyone dealt with First Tech based in Austin Tx?
If so, what has your experince been?
| 10
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|
Andy Byler writes on the Biblical basis for the dogma of the
Immaculate Conception:
+ I will put enmity between you [the Serpent] and the woman, and
+ between your seed and her seed, she [can also be read he] shall
+ crush your head and you shall bruise her [or his] heel.
+ -Genesis 3.15
+ He who commits sin is of the devil ... -1 John 3.8
+ Hail, full of grace [greek - kecharitomene], the Lord is with
+ thee ... -Luke 1.28
In the Hebrew of Genesis 3:15, the gender is clearly masculine.
+ HE shall crush your head, and you shall bruise HIS heel.
The Latin has feminine forms, only by an accident of grammar.
Andrew stated that KECHARITOMENE means not just "full of grace" but
"having a plenitude or perfection of grace." The word is used
elsewhere in the New Testament only in Ephesians 1:6
+ Unto the praise of the glory of his grace, in which he hath
+ GRACED us in his beloved Son. (Rheims-Douay translation)
I cannot find any indication in my dictionary that the verb implies
anything as strong as Andrew suggests, nor does the Ephesians
passage suggest that the verb means "to preserve from any taint of
original or actual sin from the first moment of existence." I should
like to see a comment on the meaning of the verb, preferably not
from s writer who is discussing Luke 1:28 at the moment.
| 18
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|
I strongly disagree. I think most pirating is done by amateurs, who won't
copy the program if "diskcopy" can't do it.
If you're talking a 20% max goal of pirated copies, I bet that anything that
will beat diskcopy, and can't be easily copied from a hard drive, will
suffice.
I hate hard copy manuals, and would rather have all docs online - *not*
because I want to copy the program, but because its usually faster and
and convenient than sifting through an old book I can't find.
Off deeper end-> Why does everyone think they need to be able to make a
backup copy? Almost all new software must be installed to the hard disk,
so you are left with the originals as your backups. I think its a waste
of time, space, and money, as well as it makes it to tempting to "lend"
out the backups.
No flames intended - just my thoughts.
| 15
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6,825
|
I have the following busines books/best sellers for sale. All in excellent
order. If you are interested email me an offer...
1. Zapp: The Lightning of Empowerment..............William Pyham, Jeff Cox
Harmony Books
2. Beware the Naked Man Who Offers You His Shirt...Harvey Mackay
William, Morrow & Co
3. What They Still Don't Reach You at Harvard .....Mark H. McCormack
Bantam Books
4. Megatrends 2000: 10 New Directions for the 90's.John Nisbitt/P. Aburdene
William, Morrow & Co
5. Phone Power....................................George Walther
Putnam Books
6. What Every Supervisor Should Know..............Liester R Bittel, J.Newstrom
McGraw-Hill
7. MaxiMarketing: New Directions in Advertising...Stan Rapps, Tom Collins
McGraw-Hill
8. Outsmarting The Competition....................John McGongale, Jr
Sourcebooks
9. Professional Speaking..........................Lilyan Wilder
Simon & Schuster
10. Managing Management Time......................William Ocken Jr.
Prentice Hall
11. Getting Praised Raised and Recognized........Muriel Solomon
Prentice Hall
12. Getting What You Want: How to Reach Agreement..Kare Anderson
Dutton
13. Let's Talk Quality..........................Philip B. Crosby
McGraw Hill
14. Frontal Attack, Divide and Conquer.........Richard Buskirk
Wiley
15. Den of Thieves...........................James B. Stewart
Simon & Schuster
16. 20/20 Vision..............................Stanley Davis, Bill Davidson
Fireside: Simon & Schuster
If you are intersted, email please.
| 1
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6,826
|
I have uploaded the most recent Windows drivers for the Cirrus GD5426
chip based display cards to the uploads directory at ftp.cica.indiana.edu
(file is 5426dr13.zip). They're very recent, I downloaded them from the
Cirrus BBS (570-226-2365) last night. If you are unable to get them there,
email me and maybe I can upload them to some other sites as well.
I have a local bus based card (VL24 Bitblaster from Micron) but I think
the drivers work with ISA cards (or at least includes drivers for them).
I found the new drivers to be a significant improvement over the 1.2 version,
improving my graphic winmarks (v3.11) by about 2 million (7.77 to 9.88)
although this could be the result of intentional benchmark cheating on
Cirrus's part but I don't think so.
From Steve Gibson's (columnist for Info World) graphic card comparisons
(also found at the cica ftp site under the name winadv.zip) I extracted the
following for the sake of comparison:
Wintach
Winbn3.11 Word Sprsht Cad Paint Overall
Steve's system:
486/33 VLB:
ATI Graphics Ultra Pro 9.33 10.34 20.78 8.28 14.90 13.58
my system -
486sx/33 VLB:
VL24 Bitblaster 9.88 8.65 11.71 18.84 15.40 13.65
Its no Viper, but I think its a hell of a deal at about a third of the cost of
the ATI card and when compared to the other cards included in Gibson's review.
Micron system owner's, I would be interested to hear your opinions on the
DTC 2270VL local bus disk controller. My system came with a Maxtor 7120
drive (120 MB) and at first was only giving me disk winmarks of about 16 Kb/s,
I am now at 22 Kb/s. Is this about as good as it gets? I can't get a Norton's
sysinfo disk reading because the contoller intercepts the calls, at
least that was what the program said.
| 5
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|
*****REVISED LIST**********
I have the following Turbo Graphx 16 games for sale. All have the cases and instructions. I'm asking $10 a piece for the games and $3 for S&H (You pay the $3 for the first game only). Please email replies to jth@bach.udel.edu
Alien Crush
World Class Baseball
Takin' It To The Hoop
Psychosis
Sidearms
Keith Courage
Legendary Axe
Legendary Axe II
SplatterHouse
Ninja Spirit
Tiger Road
Power Golf
World Sports Competition
Space Harrier
Silent Debugers
Cyber-Core
Final lap Twin
Devil's Crush
Keith Courage
Galaga 90'
Aline Crush
Victory Run
Blazing Lazers
I have the following TG-16 CD-ROM Games forsale. I'm asking $20 each and $3 S&H for the first game.
| 1
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6,828
|
I have a few questions about the TAX on a used car purchase.
I live in New York State, and I am going to buy a used car.
I know that I will have to pay tax when I go to register the car.
But I would like to know of tax is payed on the book value of the car, or
on the purchase price. Also, what tax rate is used ? The owner lives in
Albany (8% tax), and I will be living in Saratoga with 7% tax.
Do I pay Albany tax or Saratoga tax ? (the difference is a whole $50)
One more thing, how much does it cost for the usual 2 year registration ?
Did I leave anything out ? What else might I have to know to purchase and
register a used car ? (I've never done this before.)
| 4
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6,829
|
Cam,
Several months ago I bought a 4/40 PB100 with external floppy, AppleTalk
Remote Access, a Kensington case and AC adapter with complete documentation
and in almost new condition, used for US$900. I considered it a very good
buy and am very *cosy* with my little baby now... :-)
Murray
| 10
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|
Some more references:
S.H. Dole
"Habitable Planets for Man"
Blaisdell Publishing Company, New York (1964)
I don't know if this can be found any more.
M.J. Fogg
"Extra-Solar Planetary Systems: A Microcomputer Simulation"
J. Brit. Interplanetary. Soc., _38_, 501-514, (1985)
"An Estimate of the Prevalence of Biocompatible and Habitable Planets"
J. Brit. Interplanetary. Soc., _45_, 3-12, (1992)
The first paper includes a detailed discussion of the physical conditions
for habitability.
| 12
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To Rob and all others that have been debating about the wood stove.
The original post claimed that the ATF/FBI was pumping napalm into the
building with the hopes that the wood stove inside would ignite it. I responed
with why would the wood stove be lit in the first place? It wouldn't be lit
for heating purposes because of the weather in Texas. Everyone now claims
that it was for cooking. Stop and think about this. CS gas was being pumped
into the building and I presume that everyone was wearing gas masks (either
bought or some type of makeshift type) and this had been going on for 6 hours.
I don't know if you have ever been around CS, but I have. Being exposed to CS
gas was part of my Army training, so I know that without a mask it VERY
uncomfortable and makes your eyes water, nose run, and makes you sick in
the stomach. And with the mask it is very difficult to drink water much less
eat. So my question now is "why were they cooking food?"
I will buy that a lantern could have been knocked over and caused the fire.
But that stove was not being used for cooking (unless they were even more
crazy than the ATF/FBI claim).
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Wanted
An LCD Overhead Monitor for my school. (CGA)
Looking for one in fairly good shape but the school doesn't have alot
of money to spend. If you have one or know of one for sale please
E-mail me.
Thanks,
Jonathan
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Not really. I think it is less than 10%.
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I have for sale teh USWEST SearchDisc CDROM Phone Directory. This has
the names, phone number, address, business/residence information for
all regions covered by US West. States includes Oregon, Washington,
Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Utah,
Minnesota, Nebraska, Iowa, North Dakota, and South Dakota.
Have have two CDROM disks, one for June 1992, the other for Oct. 1992.
If you are interested, make an offer, thanks.
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since at least one other person was interested in this:
my FZR's black exhaust pipes are rusty and i researched getting them repaired.
yesterday i bought a can of VHT 1500 degree black header paint and spent an
hour sanding two of the header pipes by hand. sprayed on paint. thought
about how clean i was able to get the metal with sanding and determined that
i wouldn't be at all suprised if the paint wore/chipped off in a month.
soooo call a couple of places up in minneapolis and discover that powder
coating, while extremely durable, will not handle over ~600 degree
temperatures. the place i talked to said they were experimenting with
some new powder that is supposed to handle 1100 degrees but that it wouldn't
be available for months at least. they directed me to another shop that
specializes in header coating.
the other shop said they have 2 coatings available. one is aluminized that
can do 1200+ degrees and is "comparable" to powder coating for durability.
the other is silicon (i think) based and can do 1800+ degrees (!) but is
thinner and not as durable. both coatings have a textured finish (not
super smooth) and should be cleaned with hot water and a brush.
price for 4 1-foot header pipes and a 2-foot 4-2-1 collector was ~$100. i'm
planning to take the parts up friday and get them back (UPS) next week maybe
wednesday.
sounds to me like this kind of coating stuff should be way better than paint
considering how much abuse the pipes get from road crap/rocks.
| 0
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|
Yeah, they finally came to agreement on a contract. As soon as the ink was
dry, he suddenly decided Kansas City was a neat place to be. (ergo, the
"want to play for the national team" was a bargaining chip).
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This is normal behavior for these drives (and many other models). The drive
is doing a recalibration -- adjusting for temperature changes. If you leave
the machine on the frequency of the recalibrations goes way down.
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> This is actually the law that David Irving
> will hopefully be found guilty under due to his denial of the Holocaust.
> It's too bad that this useless "Centre for Policy Research" isn't in Canada.
> It'd set a nice precedent to how the law applies in Cyberspace.
>
> Steve
Well canada is wrong. If it was in the US the ACLU would have
made sure that such repressive laws are found unconstitutional.
Do you think the Church didn't find Galileo's perception of the
universe offensive.
Bull shit. There is no reason in the world why we can't say that
taking views analogous to the KKK's or some such organization is
wrong. There is no reason why some morality may not be legislated. As
it is we do not allow theft, or murder, or rape. Why should we allow
hateful sppech whose only purpose is to stir anger and violence.
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GT> From: gary@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Gary Taylor)
GT> Hi, We are trying to develop a image reconstruction simulation for the skull
You could do high resolution CT (computed tomographic) scanning of
the skull. Many CT scanners have an algorithm to do 3-D
reconstructions in any plane you want. If you did reconstructions
every 2 degrees or so in all planes, you could use the resultant
images to create user-controlled animation.
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Since your criminal grandparents ruthlessly exterminated more than
600,000 Kurds between 1914 and 1916 in Eastern Anatolia. Referring to
notes from the personal diary of Russian General L. Odishe Liyetze on
the Turkish front, he wrote,
"On the nights 11-12 March, 1918 alone Armenian butchers
bayoneted and axed to death 3000 Muslims in areas surrounding
Erzincan. These barbars threw their victims into pits, most
likely dug according to their sinister plans to extinguish
Muslims, in groups of 80. My adjutant counted and unearthed
200 such pits. This is an act against our world of civilization."
On March 12, 1918 Lieut-colonel Griyaznof wrote (from an official
Russian account of the Turkish genocide),
"Roads leading to villages were littered with bayoneted torsos,
dismembered joints and carved out organs of Muslim peasants...
alas! mainly of women and children."
Source: Doc. Dr. Azmi Suslu, "Russian View on the Atrocities Committed
by the Armenians Against the Turks," Ankara Universitesi, Ankara,
1987, pp. 45-53.
"Document No: 77," Archive No: 1-2, Cabin No: 10, Drawer
No: 4, File No: 410, Section No: 1578, Contents No: 1-12, 1-18.
(Acting Commander of Erzurum and Deveboynu regions and Commander
of the Second Erzurum Artillery Regiment Prisoner of War,
Lieutenant Colonel Toverdodleyov)
"The things I have heard and seen during the two months, until the
liberation of Erzurum by the Turks, have surpassed all the
allegations concerning the vicious, degenerate characteristic of
the Armenians. During the Russian occupation of Erzurum, no Armenian
was permitted to approach the city and its environs.
While the Commander of the First Army Corps, General Kaltiyin remained
in power, troops including Armenian enlisted men, were not sent to the
area. When the security measures were lifted, the Armenians began to
attack Erzurum and its surroundings. Following the attacks came the
plundering of the houses in the city and the villages and the murder
of the owners of these houses...Plundering was widely committed by
the soldiers. This plunder was mainly committed by Armenian soldiers
who had remained in the rear during the war.
One day, while passing through the streets on horseback, a group of
soldiers including an Armenian soldier began to drag two old men of
seventy years in a certain direction. The roads were covered with mud,
and these people were dragging the two helpless Turks through the mud
and dirt...
It was understood later that all these were nothing but tricks and
traps. The Turks who joined the gendarmarie soon changed their minds
and withdrew. The reason was that most of the Turks who were on night
patrol did not return, and no one knew what had happened to them. The
Turks who had been sent outside the city for labour began to disappear
also. Finally, the Court Martial which had been established for the
trials of murderers and plunderers, began to liquidate itself for
fear that they themselves would be punished. The incidents of murder
and rape, which had decreased, began to occur more frequently.
Sometime in January and February, a leading Turkish citizen Haci Bekir
Efendi from Erzurum, was killed one night at his home. The Commander
in Chief (Odiselidge) gave orders to find murderers within three days.
The Commander in Chief has bitterly reminded the Armenian intellectuals
that disobedience among the Armenian enlisted men had reached its
highest point, that they had insulted and robbed the people and half
of the Turks sent outside the city had not returned.
...We learnt the details this incident from the Commander-in-Chief,
Odishelidge. They were as follows:
The killings were organized by the doctors and the employers, and the
act of killing was committed solely by the Armenian renegades...
More than eight hundred unarmed and defenceless Turks have been
killed in Erzincan. Large holes were dug and the defenceless
Turks were slaughtered like animals next to the holes. Later, the
murdered Turks were thrown into the holes. The Armenian who stood
near the hole would say when the hole was filled with the corpses:
'Seventy dead bodies, well, this hole can take ten more.' Thus ten
more Turks would be cut into pieces, thrown into the hole, and when
the hole was full it would be covered over with soil.
The Armenians responsible for the act of murdering would frequently
fill a house with eighty Turks, and cut their heads off one by one.
Following the Erzincan massacre, the Armenians began to withdraw
towards Erzurum... The Armenian renegades among those who withdrew
to Erzurum from Erzincan raided the Moslem villages on the road, and
destroyed the entire population, together with the villages.
During the transportation of the cannons, ammunition and the carriages
that were outside the war area, certain people were hired among the
Kurdish population to conduct the horse carriages. While the travellers
were passing through Erzurum, the Armenians took advantage of the time
when the Russian soldiers were in their dwellings and began to kill
the Kurds they had hired. When the Russian soldiers heard the cries
of the dying Kurds, they attempted to help them. However, the
Armenians threatened the Russian soldiers by vowing that they would
have the same fate if they intervened, and thus prevented them from
acting. All these terrifying acts of slaughter were committed with
hatred and loathing.
Lieutenant Medivani from the Russian Army described an incident that
he witnessed in Erzurum as follows: An Armenian had shot a Kurd. The
Kurd fell down but did not die. The Armenian attempted to force the
stick in his hand into the mouth of the dying Kurd. However, since
the Kurd had firmly closed his jaws in his agony, the Armenian failed
in his attempt. Having seen this, the Armenian ripped open the abdomen
of the Kurd, disembowelled him, and finally killed him by stamping
him with the iron heel of his boot.
Odishelidge himself told us that all the Turks who could not escape
from the village of Ilica were killed. Their heads had been cut off
by axes. He also told us that he had seen thousands of murdered
children. Lieutenant Colonel Gryaznov, who passed through the village
of Ilica, three weeks after the massacre told us the following:
There were thousands of dead bodies hacked to pieces, on the roads.
Every Armenian who happened to pass through these roads, cursed and
spat on the corpses. In the courtyard of a mosque which was about
25x30 meter square, dead bodies were piled to a height of 140
centimeters. Among these corpses were men and women of every age,
children and old people. The women's bodies had obvious marks of
rape. The genitals of many girls were filled with gun-powder.
A few educated Armenian girls, who worked as telephone operators
for the Armenian troops were called by Lieutenant Colonel Gryaznov
to the courtyard of the mosque and he bitterly told them to be
proud of what the Armenians had done. To the lieutenant colonel's
disgusted amazement, the Armenian girls started to laugh and giggle,
instead of being horrified. The lieutenant colonel had severely
reprimanded those girls for their indecent behaviour. When he told
the girls that the Armenians, including women, were generally more
licentious than even the wildest animals, and that their indecent
and shameful laughter was the most obvious evidence of their inhumanity
and barbarity, before a scene that appalled even veteran soldiers,
the Armenian girls finally remembered their sense of shame and
claimed they had laughed because they were nervous.
An Armenian contractor at the Alaca Communication zone command
narrated the following incident which took place on February 20:
The Armenians had nailed a Turkish women to the wall. They had cut
out the women's heart and placed the heart on top of her head.
The great massacre in Erzurum began on February 7... The enlisted men
of the artillery division caught and stripped 270 people. Then they
took these people into the bath to satisfy their lusts. 100 people
among this group were able to save their lives as the result of
my decisive attempts. The others, the Armenians claimed, were
released when they learnt that I understood what was going on.
Among those who organized this treacherous act was the envoy to the
Armenian officers, Karagodaviev. Today, some Turks were murdered
on the streets.
On February 12, some Armenians have shot more than ten innocent
Moslems. The Russian soldiers who attempted to save these people were
threatened with death. Meanwhile I imprisoned an Armenian for
murdering an innocent Turk.
When an Armenian officer told an Armenian murderer that he would
be hanged for his crime, the killer shouted furiously: 'How dare
you hang an Armenian for killing a Turk?' In Erzurum, the
Armenians burned down the Turkish market. On February 17, I heard
that the entire population of Tepekoy village, situated within
the artillery area, had been totally annihilated. On the same
day when Antranik entered Erzurum, I reported the massacre to
him, and asked him to track down the perpetrators of this horrible
act. However no result was achieved.
In the villages whose inhabitants had been massacred, there was a
natural silence. On the night of 26/27 February, the Armenians deceived
the Russians, perpetrated a massacre and escaped for fear of the
Turkish soldiers. Later, it was understood that this massacre had
been based upon a method organized and planned in a circular.
The population had been herded in a certain place and then killed
one by one. The number of murders committed on that night reached
three thousand. It was the Armenians who bragged to about the details
of the massacre. The Armenians fighting against the Turkish soldiers
were so few in number and so cowardly that they could not even
withstand the Turkish soldiers who consisted of only five hundred
people and two cannons, for one night, and ran away. The leading
Armenians of the community could have prevented this massacre.
However, the Armenian intellectuals had shared the same ideas with
the renegades in this massacre, just as in all the others. The lower
classes within the Armenian community have always obeyed the orders
of the leading Armenian figures and commanders.
I do not like to give the impression that all Armenian intellectuals
were accessories to these murders. No, for there were people who
opposed the Armenians for such actions, since they understood that
it would yield no result. However, such people were only a minority.
Furthermore, such people were considered as traitors to the Armenian
cause. Some have seemingly opposed the Armenian murders but have
supported the massacres secretly. Some, on the other hand, preferred
to remain silent. There were certain others, who, when accused by
the Russians of infamy, would say the following: 'You are Russians.
You can never understand the Armenian cause.' The Armenians had a
conscience. They would commit massacres and then would flee in fear
of the Turkish soldiers.
The incidents that occurred only recently clearly manifest the real
nature of the Armenian ideology. Nothing which is already done can
be undone."
Serdar Argic
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I did it once with a biker-girlfriend in the
car, and she told me that I was stupid, the
rider wouldn't know why I was waving.
...She's long gone...
One.
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I got this recipe from a watier on the greek island of samos.
They use it as a spread for bread there butit is excellent on
gyro's as well. By the way, the actual name is tzatziki.
Here is the recipe:
yoghurt, chopped garlic, peeled chopped cucumber, salt, white
pepper, a little olive oil and a little vinegar.
I would love to hear of any other good greek recipes out there.
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When will people learn!
The trouble is the ballast in the concrete and as every fool knows Ballast
resistors are used to discharge batteries. Furthermore it is very silly to
store the battery with the terminals downwards as you must have done to
contact the ballast.
Seriously: self discharge (the actual problem, as stated by others) does vary
greatly with certain types and freaks show low self discharge. I have in
fact seen ordinary automotive batteries which have effectively held full
charge for > 2 years so it must be possible.
If your garage is heated, store the batteries somewhere cooler but above
freezing (flat batteries freeze more easily). Occasionally charge it (once a
month?) or even leave it on 'float' charge permanently (special charger,
DON'T do this unless you know what you are doing, seriously dangerous).
Anouther point is the unsuitability of automotive batteries for things like
electric mowers -- they are not generally designed to be repeatedly deep
discharged and their life may be greatly shorted. Some early zero maintenance
automotive batteries in fact responded to a full discharge with total failure
shortly afterwards but modern ones are superb. (6yrs, 95000 miles and
counting)
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<come along since the Mazda MPV. The NISSAN MAXIMA engine paired with
<the rest of the vehicle seems well engineered. Only the price is
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Yes, as a philosophy weak atheism is worthless. This is true in
exactly the same sense that as a philosophy Christians' disbelief in
Zeus is worthless. Atheists construct their personal philosophies
from many different sources, building non-god-based ideas in the same
way as Christians build non-Zeus-based ideas of thunderbolts.
Atheists no more *base* their philosophy on atheism than Christians
base theirs on the nonexistence of Zeus.
The "weak atheist" position is logically extremely assailable -- any
logical demonstration of the existence of a god completely destroys it
as soon as the demonstration is made in the presence of a given weak
atheist. Atheists in this newsgroup are barraged regularly with
attempts to provide such a logical demonstration, and they all fail
miserably. In fact, most of the people around here who claim the
"strong (as opposed to mathematical) atheist" position do so on this
basis: not only do we not believe in a god, but also all the arguments
presented in favor of particular gods have to date proven unsound;
therefore, one can say that those gods as argued by those arguments do
not exist. This doesn't apply to such philosophers' gods as are
defined to be logically undemonstrable, but these are not the gods of
popular religion, and the coherence of such claims is quite
questionable.
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continuing part #4 (I think); used by permission,
THE SOURCE AND NT MEANING
OF ARSENOKOITAI, WITH IMPLICATIONS
FOR CHRISTIAN ETHICS AND MINISTRY
James B. DeYoung
W. Petersen
More recently Wright's understanding has itself been questioned from a
different direction. In a brief 1986 study William Petersen found linguistic
confusion in using the English word "homosexuals" as the meaning of
arsenokoitai.[22] He faulted Wright and English Bible translaions for
rendering it by "homosexuals" in I Cor 6:9 and I Tim 1:10.
In a sense Petersen has coalesced Bailey, Boswell, and Scroggs into a
single assertion that reiterates, in effect, the position of Bailey. He finds
"homosexuals" unacceptable as a translation because it is anachronistic. "A
major disjunction" exists between contemporary thought and terminology and the
thought and terminolgy in Paul's time (187-88).
What is this "disjunction"? He bases it on historical and linguistic
facts. Accordingly, ancient Greek and Roman society treated male sexuality as
polyvalent and characterized a person sexually only by his sexual acts.
Virtually all forms of behavior, except transvestism, were acceptable.
Christianity simply added the categories of "natural" and "unnatural" in
describing these actions. Ancient society know nothing of the categories of
"homosexuals" and "heterosexuals," and assumed that, in the words of Dover
quoted approvingly by Petersen, "everyone responds at different times to both
homosexual and to heterosexual stimuli. . ." (188). [23]
In contrast to this, modern usage virtually limits the term "homosexual"
to desire and propensity. K.M. Benkert, who in 1869 coined the German term
equivalent to "homosexual," used it as referring to orientation, impluse or
affectional preference and having "nothing to do with sexual acts" (189).
Petersen then proceeds to cite the "Supplement to the Oxford English
Dictionary," which defines "homosexual" only as a propensity or desire with no
mention of acts. Petersen's point is that by using "homosexuals" for
arsenokoitai, one wrongfully reads a modern concept back into early history
"where no equivalent concept existed" (189). Consequently the translation is
inaccurate because it "includes celibate homophiles,. . . . incorrectly exludes
heterosexuals who engage in homosexual acts . . . [and]incorrectly includes
female homosexuals" (19=89). Prior to 1869 there was no "cognitive structure,
either inour society or in antiquity, within which the modern bifurcation of
humanity into 'homosexuals' and 'hetersosexuals' made sence" (189).
The foregoing clarifies why Petersen feels that the translatio
"homosexual" is mistaken. Yet is it possible that Petersen is the one
mistaken, on both historical and linguistic or philological grounds? The next
phases of this paper will critically examine Petersen's position.
THE JUSTIFICATION FOR TRANSLATING
ARSENOKOITAI BY "HOMOSEXUALS"
Historical Grounds
A refutation of the foregoing opposition to the traslation of arsenokoitai
by "homosexuals" begins with the historical and cultural evidence. Since
virtually everyone acknowledges that the word does not appear before Paul's
usage, no historical settings earlier than his are available. Yet much writing
reveals that ancient understanding of homosexuality prior to and contemporary
with Paul. The goal is to discover wheither the ancient s conceived of
homosexuality, particularly homosexual orientation, in a way similar to
present-day concepts.
Peterson, Bailey, Boswell, and Scroggs claim that the homosexual
condition, desire, propensity, or inversion -whatever it is called- cannot be
part of the definition of the term. They assert this either because the term
is limited to acts of particular kind (Boswell, active male prostitutes;
Scroggs, pederasty) or because the homosexual condition was unknown in ancient
times (Bailey; Petersen). The following discussion will show why neither of
these positions is legitimate. Attention will be devoted to the latter postion
first with the former one being addressed below under "Linguistic Grounds."
In regard to the latter position, one may rightfully ask, did not the
homosexual condition exist before 1869? Is it only a modern phenomenon? Yet if
it is universal, as alleged today, it must have existed always including
ancient times, even though there is lack of sophistication in discussing it.
Indeed, evidence show that the ancients, pre-Christian and Christian, not only
knew about the total spectrum of sexual behavior, including all forms of
same-sex activity (transvestism included), but also knoew about same-sex
orientation or condition. Petersen admits (190 n. 10) that Plato in
"Symposium" (189d-192d) may be a "sole possible exception" to ancient
ingnorance of this condition. He discounts this, however, believing that even
here "acts appear to be the deciding factor." However, this is a very
significant exception, hardly worthy of being called "an exception," because of
the following additional evidence for a homosexual condition.
THe "Symposium" of Plato gives some of the strongest evidence for
knowledge about the homosexual condition. [24] Plato posits a third sex
comprised of a maile-female (androgynon ("man-woman"). Hence "original nature"
palai physis, consisted of three kinds of human beings. Zeus sliced these
human beings in half, to weaken them so that they would not be a threat to the
gods. Consequently each person seeks his or her other half, either one of the
opposite sex or one of the same sex. Plato then quotes Aristophances:
Each of us, then, is but a tally of a man, since every one shows like
a flatfish the traces of having been sliced in two; and each is ever
searching for the tally that will fit him. All the men who are sections
of that composite sex that at first was called man-woman are
woman-courters; our adulterers are mostly descended from that sex,
whence likewise are derived our mancourting women and adulteresses.
All the women who are sections of the woman have no great fancy for men:
they are incllined rather to women, and of this stock are the she-minions.
Men who are sections of the male pursue the masculine, and so long as
their boyhood lasts they show themselves to be sliced of the male by
making griends with men and delighting to lie with them and to be
clasped in men's embrasces; these are the finest boys and striplings,
for they have the most manly nature. Some say they are shameless
creatures, but falsely: for their behavior is due not to shamelessness
but to daring, manliness, and virility, since they are quick to welcome
their like. Sure evidence of this is the fact that on reaching maturity
these alone prove in a public career to be men. So when they come
to man's estate they are boy-lovers, and have no natural interest in
wiving and getting children but only do these things under stress of
custom; they are quite contented to live together unwedded all their days.
A man of this sort is at any rate born to be a lover of boys or the
willing mate of a man, eagerly greeting his own kind. Well, when
one of them -whether he be a boy-lover or a lover of any other sort-
happens on his own particular half, the two of them are wondrously
thrilled with affection and intimacy and love, and are hardly to be
induced to leave each other's side for a single moment. These are
they who continue together throughout life, though they could not
even say what they would have of one another (191d-192c) [25]
Should these two persons be offered the opportunity to be fused together for as
long as they live, or even in Hades, Aristophanes says that each "would
unreservedly deem that he had been offered just what he was yearning for all
the time: (192e).
Several observations about this text are in order. Lesbianism is
contemplated, as will as male homosexuality (191e). "Natural interest" (ton
noun physei), (192b) refelects modern concepts of propensity or inclination.
The words, "born to be a lover of boys or the willing mate of a man:
(paiderastes te kai philerastes gignetai), (192b) reflect the modern claims "to
be born this," i.e., as homosexual. The idea of mutuallity ("the two of them
are wondrously thrilled with affection and intimacy and love," 192b) is
present. Aristophanes even speaks of "mutual love ingrained in mankind
reassembling our early estate" (ho eros emphytos allelon tois anthropois kai
tes archaias physeos synagogeus, 191d). The concept of permanency ("These are
they who continue together throughout life," 102c) is also present. Further
mention of and/or allusion to permanecy, mutality, "gay pride," pederasty,
homophobia, motive, desire, passion, and the nature of love and its works is
recognizable.
Clearly the ancients thought of love (homosexual or other) apart from
actions. THe speakers in the Symposium argue that motive in homosexuality is
crucial; money, office, influence, etc. . . bring reproach (182e-183a, 184b).
They mention the need to love the soul not the body (183e). There are tow
kinds of love in the body (186b) and each has its "desire" and "passion"
(186b-d). The speakers discuss the principles or "matters" of love (187c), the
desires of love (192c) and being "males by nature" (193c). Noteworthy is the
speech of Socrates who devotes much attention to explaining how desire is
related to love and its objects (200a-201c). Desire is felt for "what is not
provided or present; for something they have not or are not or lack." This is
the object of desire and love. Socrates clearly distinguishes between "what
sort of being is love" and the "works" of love (201e). This ancient
philosopher could think of both realms -seaual acts as well as disposition of
being or nature. His wors have significance for more than pederasty. [26]
In summary, virtually every element in the modern discussion of love and
homosexuality is anticipated in the Symposium of Plato. Petersen is in error
when he claims that the ancients could only think of homosexual acts, not
inclination or orientation. Widespread evidence to the contray supports the
latter. [27]
Biblical support for homosexuality inclination in the contexts where
homosexual acts are discribed adds to the case for the ancient distinction. In
Rom 1:21-28 such phrases as "reasoning," "heart," "becoming foolish," "desires
of the heart." and "reprobate mind" prove Paul's concern for disposition and
inclination along with the "doing" or "working" of evil (also see vv. 29-32).
Even the catologues of vices are introdiced (I Tim 1:8-10) or concluded (I Cor
6:9-11) by words describing what people "are" or "were," not what they "do."
Habits betray what people are within, as also the Lord Jesus taught (cf. Matt.
23:28). The inner condition is as important as the outer act; one gives rise
to the other (cf. Mt 5:27).
Petersen errs regarding other particulars too. Transvestism apparently
was accepted by the ancients. It was practiced among Canaaniteds, Syrian,
people of Asia Minor, as well as Greeks, according to S.R. Driver. [28] Only a
few moralist and Jewish writers are on record as condemning it. For example,
Seneca (Moral Epistles 47.7-8) condemns homosexual exploitation that forces an
adult slave to dress, be beardless, and behave as a woman. Philo also goes to
some length to describe the homosexuals of his day and their dressing as women
(The Special Laws III, 37-41; see also his On the Virtues, 20-21, where he
justifies prohibition of cross-dressing). Even the OT forbade the interchange
of clothing between the sexes (Deut 22:5).
Petersen is also wrong in attributing to Christianity the creating of the
"new labels" of "natural" and "unnatural" for sexual behavior. These did not
begin with Paul (Rom 1:26-27) but go as far back as ancient Greece and even
non-Christian contemporaries used them. Plato, the TEST.NAPH., Philo, Josephu,
Plutarch, and others used these words or related concepts. [29]
Linguistic Grounds
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The format for Word for Windows doc files is available from Microsoft.
Call their Developer Support Services number (sorry, don't have it handy)
and ask for the Word for Windows binary file format spec.
Warning: It is not terribly useful, and you will need to do a *lot* of
looking before you can figure out how the stuff is stored.
General primer:
Word for Windows stores its data in two chunks. The first chunk is the
actual text in the file. This is all stored together and has nothing
but text and graphics. The second chunk is the formatting information.
For general use, to read a Word for Windows file, skip the first 384 bytes
of the file (its a general header). Then read the remaining text until you
hit binary data.
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Do you mean besides the National Guard?
Outside of military reservations?
Besides national emergencies?
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THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
_____________________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release April 20, 1993
PRESS BRIEFING
BY DEE DEE MYERS
The Briefing Room
9:47 A.M. EDT
MS. MYERS: Okay, today's schedule. As you know, the
President jogged this morning with Senator Wofford.
At 1:15 p.m., he will have a photo opportunity in the
Rose Garden to present the Teacher of the Year Award. At 1:30 p.m.,
he will meet with his principal advisors on Bosnia. And at 5:00
p.m., he'll meet with President Vaclav Havel. There will be a photo
op at the top of that meeting; no formal press conference afterwards.
Any questions?
Q Is he moving towards some major decision this week
on Bosnia?
MS. MYERS: As we've said, he's continuing to discuss
his options. He's been talking extensively with his foreign policy
advisors, his Bosnia advisors, as well as with other world leaders.
He'll try to contact President Mitterrand again today, and he'll
continue to discuss it. We don't have any specific timetable, but
obviously the situation there is very serious.
Q Has he called Janet Reno today or yesterday?
MS. MYERS: I don't believe he's spoken to her today.
Q Why does he have nothing to say about this publicly
except on the piece of paper that was put out last night at 6:40
p.m.?
MS. MYERS: He did. He answered a question about it
yesterday.
Q Before anything had happened.
MS. MYERS: Before anything happened. He put out --
Q Since something has happened he's had nothing to
say.
MS. MYERS: He's put out a statement on it last night.
And we'll have more to say about it later today.
Q In what forum is that going to be?
MS. MYERS: It will be at the photo in the Rose Garden.
Q He will talk about Waco at that?
MS. MYERS: Yes, he'll have something to say.
Q Is that something we can take live?
MS. MYERS: I think it will be brief. We can talk a
little later about the exact structure as we work it out. But I
don't know if it's something you'd want to take live.
Q Will he take questions on Waco at that time as
well?
MS. MYERS: He'll probably take a few.
Q Is there any reason why he hasn't talked to the
Attorney General?
MS. MYERS: I'll have to double-check. I don't know
that he hasn't talked to her this morning.
Q And she didn't come here this morning to see him or
anyone else?
MS. MYERS: No.
Q And he didn't talk yesterday?
Q What's the reaction to her resignation statement
that she made last night?
MS. MYERS: She was asked a question about it, and she
answered the question. The President has absolutely no intention of
asking for the Attorney General's resignation. He stands behind her
100 percent. As you know, he was informed about the decision. He
takes full responsibility for that, and stands 100 percent behind
Attorney General Reno.
Q The question now arises -- yesterday we were told
that he was briefed on this, but we never got a firm idea of how much
he knew of what the plan was and the justification for the plan and
the justification of the timing. Was he fully informed on all of
that, all of this about the increasing levels of violence inside the
compound that made them want to go now, the feeling that nothing else
was going to succeed, et cetera?
MS. MYERS: He talked with the Attorney General about
the decision, about -- she talked to him about the factors that led
to her decision. He raised no objections. He supports her decision
to go forward with it. He was fully briefed.
Q Of course, hindsight is 20-20, but looking back
now, does the President, does the White House feel that the decision
he signed off on proved to be the right way to go when you look at
what actually happened?
MS. MYERS: I think everybody feels bad when life is
lost. But I don't think that that is reason to second-guess the
decision. He stands behind the decision that was made. He was
informed about it. He was fully briefed about it and he stands 100
percent behind the Attorney General, the Justice Department and the
FBI. It's a difficult operation and there's -- it had already gone
on for more than seven weeks. Four federal agents had lost their
lives in the line of duty -- let's not forget that.
This was a very difficult situation and all the
decisions involved were very difficult. But all the agents on the
ground, the FBI, the Justice Department all recommended moving
forward with this. They thought, given the circumstances, it was the
best possible course of action. There's just no point in second-
guessing those decisions. Now, I think that there's a reason --
Q Why not? They have to --
MS. MYERS: No, not to second-guess the decisions. I
think it's important to take a look at it, to have an investigation.
I think the President will talk some about that later today. But at
this -- from this vantage point, to second-guess those decisions,
it's not useful.
Q You sound like he's going to order an investigation
of what happened and whether --
MS. MYERS: I think he'll have more to say about that
later, yes.
Q He will order an investigation?
MS. MYERS: He'll have more -- yes -- he'll have more to
say about an investigation.
Q What kind of investigation?
MS. MYERS: He'll have more to say about it later.
Q But in the Monday morning quarterbacking, surely
there is some soul-searching now as to whether it was the right
decision. You can't say that we did the best we could when it turned
out to be a rather -- a debacle.
MS. MYERS: I think we'll -- obviously, we'll review
the situation and all the factors that lead to a very tragic outcome.
I don't think anybody disputes that the outcome was tragic. But,
again, the President stands behind the decisions that were made and
we'll take a look at the factors that contributed to that.
Q What was the FBI Director's role in this?
MS. MYERS: Well, he was obviously involved in setting
up the operation. He signed off on it, as did the agents that were
on the ground that were working with him. I don't believe he spoke
to the President, but I'll double-check that.
Q But he was very closely involved in every aspect of
planning and so forth?
MS. MYERS: I would refer you to the FBI on exactly what
aspects he was involved with.
Q Will Janet Reno be coming over to the White House
today?
MS. MYERS: There's no planned meeting. I don't believe
that she'll be here.
Q She won't be at this event at 1:15 p.m.?
MS. MYERS: No, no plans to be.
Q Do you think that there's going to be a jumping on
on the part of political opposition to make something out of this in
terms of -- to the President's detriment politically?
MS. MYERS: Well, I would certainly hope that people
wouldn't try to use this tragedy for political reasons. Obviously, I
think, again, that it's useful to look at the facts, to reevaluate
the facts, and I think the President will move forward with that.
But I think people understand that this was a difficult series of
decisions; that it was a very difficult situation; that it was caused
by a man who was a cult leader who was involved in the death of four
federal agents. And I think it's most tragic that a lot of innocent
children lost their lives in this. I don't think anybody disputes
the tragedy of the outcome.
Q Dee Dee, what was the White House role in handling
the, I guess, public relations aspect in the aftermath? Who was
talking -- who here at the White House was talking with people at
Justice to set up Reno's news conference, to do all that sort of
thing?
MS. MYERS: I think the Attorney General handled her end
of the situation herself and made the decision to go ahead with the
news conference once there was a point at which there was enough
information, I think, to talk with some accuracy about what had
transpired during the day. Obviously, people here at a number of
levels were keeping in touch with people at the Justice Department
and at the FBI to try to keep informed about what was happening
there.
Q But Reno said that she didn't talk to the
President, and there seemed to be an indication she hadn't talked to
anybody at the White House. So who --
MS. MYERS: There were people talking on a staff-to-
staff level.
Q I understand. But who at the Justice Department
was handling that for Reno? Who was talking to the White House?
MS. MYERS: There were a number of people. As you know,
Webb Hubbell is the liaison to the White House, and I know he talked
to a number of people here. There were a number of people at a
number of different levels involved. I don't want to get into
exactly who had what conversations with whom, but there were a number
of conversations. Obviously, the Justice Department was working to
keep the White House informed, the press informed to the best of its
ability as events unfolded throughout the day.
Q Did Webb Hubbell talk to the President?
MS. MYERS: I don't believe so. I don't know if he
talked -- he may have at one point.
Q And was the White House role just to seek
information about what happened, or was it to direct the public
information campaign that followed?
MS. MYERS: It was both to keep abreast of the situation
so the President could be on top of it, but I think the Justice
Department managed its press relations on it. We were obviously very
interested in what was happening there throughout the day, and the
President was following it very closely throughout the day.
Q Dee Dee, on that, though, if the President was
following it so closely and he had talked the night before with Janet
Reno, why wouldn't he talk to her at all since then?
MS. MYERS: Again, I don't know if he's talked to her
this morning. Again, he's kept fully aware of what has been going on
throughout the day. He stands 100 percent behind her decisions.
He's been fully supportive of her, as he said yesterday morning
before events transpired and yesterday afternoon in a written
statement.
Q But wouldn't he want to convey those thoughts to
her personally yesterday?
MS. MYERS: One more time, I don't know if they've
spoken this morning.
Q No, yesterday.
Q Clearly there's a perception that she was left hung
out to dry all day yesterday.
MS. MYERS: That's just not true. I think we said
throughout the day that the President takes full responsibility, that
he stands -- I don't know how much clearer we can be. The President
stands foursquare behind the Attorney General on this. He accepts
full responsibility for the events that transpired. He believes that
Janet Reno, the Justice Department, and the FBI acted as best they
could, given the circumstances and the facts that were evident at the
time. I don't know what else he can say to show that he supports her
1,000 percent.
Q One of the best indications of that is to pick up
the phone and tell her.
MS. MYERS: Again, I don't know whether they've spoken
this morning.
Q Why can't we find out?
MS. MYERS: Well, we can. I can't do it standing here
right now.
Q You've got six people here. All they've got to do
is pick up the phone.
MS. MYERS: Helen, we'll get back to you.
Q Dee Dee, when the President spoke with the Attorney
General on Sunday, is it safe to assume that either she volunteered
or he inquired about whether there was a possible downside to
increasing pressure on the Davidians?
MS. MYERS: I think that they discussed the situation.
Again, I'm not going to get into the specific details of what exactly
she told him, but I think that he was aware of the risks involved.
Q Dee Dee, the President yesterday morning said it
was entirely her decision. She then said that she told him what was
happening and he said, okay. Does the President regard it that he
gave the go-ahead or that she gave the go-ahead?
MS. MYERS: I think what they both said yesterday was
that she made a decision based on all the available facts. She
informed him about that and he raised no objections. Again, I don't
know how much clearer we can be about that.
Q And he said, okay. The issue is over the
responsibility.
MS. MYERS: He said, okay.
Q Does okay mean --
MS. MYERS: The President accepts ultimate
responsibility.
Q Dee Dee, the President's investigation that he's
going to announce -- would that be conducted by someone outside the
administration?
MS. MYERS: No.
Q It would be internal -- is it meant to preclude any
congressional investigation?
MS. MYERS: No, it's meant simply to follow up on the
incidents that occurred yesterday.
Q And you would, I assume, therefore, cooperate fully
with any congressional hearings that would be held?
MS. MYERS: To the best of our ability.
Q Dee Dee, there are two reports out this morning.
One that the Justice Department, or FBI, or whomever, apparently had
a bug planted inside the complex. And the other is that the children
may have been injected with some kind of poison that may have either
left them unconscious or maybe even killed them before the fire.
What do you know about those two --
MS. MYERS: Nothing more than I've seen in news accounts
this morning. We may get more on it later, but at this point, I know
-- I'm not sure anybody knows any more than what was reported by
people who came out of the compound.
Q Has the President received any report today in
terms of fatalities and actually what was going on -- what they've
been able to find out on in the compound now?
MS. MYERS: He's been briefed. I don't think that
they've gotten into the compound yet. They were still waiting for it
to cool off. I don't think there's much beyond what's been reported
in the news accounts. But he has been kept up-to-date on it.
Q Dee Dee, the President stands behind Attorney
General Reno, but does he feel that she perhaps got bad advice from
the so-called experts?
MS. MYERS: He believes that she made -- he stands
behind the decision that she made. It was the unanimous decision of
her advisors, of the FBI, of the agents on the ground, and he
supports that.
Q What about the validity of the decisions made on
the ground? Does he back those --
MS. MYERS: He's not going to second-guess decisions
made.
Q Dee Dee, you just said, he stands behind the
decision which she made. Normally, in a situation like this, the
President says, I made the decision. But you're saying she made the
decision?
MS. MYERS: I'm saying that the President was briefed
about the decision. He okayed it and he accepts full responsibility
for it.
Q But then why do you keep using the terminology, the
decision that she made, rather than the decision that he made --
MS. MYERS: Because, as he said yesterday, she evaluated
the facts based on evidence presented to her by Justice Department
and FBI, which is part of the Justice Department, and made a decision
and then briefed the President on that decision. That is how the
chain of command works. She briefed him. He signed off on it. The
operation went forward, and the President accepts full
responsibility.
Q In that chain of command analogy there, I want to
go back to Sessions a moment. Do you know if this was a plan that
came through him to Reno, or was it presented to her around him or
with his involvement? What was his involvement?
MS. MYERS: Again, you'd have to go to the Justice
Department for the specific interaction between the Attorney General
and the Director.
Q Does the President stand behind Director Sessions?
MS. MYERS: He supports -- again, I don't know how many
different ways I can say this -- he supports the decisions made by
the Justice Department and the FBI. He fully supports the Attorney
General in this. I'm not stepping away from the Director of the FBI,
I want to -- but Janet Reno is the one who briefed him, the one who
made the decisions as the head of the Justice Department. As you
know, the Director of the FBI reports to the Attorney General. The
Attorney General made the decision. She informed the President about
those decisions. He okayed it. He didn't raise any objections to
it, and he accepts full responsibility.
Q Do you have, based on what you know here at the
White House, any concerns about William Sessions' performance during
this --
MS. MYERS: Nothing to suggest that, no.
Q Along those same lines, just in your initial review
of the situation, how much do you think the problems might have come
from not having a Justice Department that's fully staffed and having
an FBI Director who is still quite uncertain about his status?
MS. MYERS: I just don't think that had anything to do
with it. I think the agents on the ground -- the operation went
forward. I'm not going to speculate on that.
Q Did the White House express any alarm that Janet
Reno chose to speak to the live network media before she chose to
speak to Clinton?
MS. MYERS: No. She was carrying forward her
responsibility to inform the public about the events of yesterday. I
think she did a very admirable job. The President agrees with that.
Q Before Sunday, how often was the President briefed
on the situation in Waco?
MS. MYERS: He was kept updated on a regular basis, on a
daily basis.
Q Who briefed the President?
MS. MYERS: Well, I'm not going to get into exactly who,
what conversations he had with whom, but he was kept up-to-date on
the events in Waco. He has daily briefings on a number of issues.
Q No, no, was this a regular briefing conducted by a
White House staff person, or was it by a Justice Department person?
MS. MYERS: He's briefed regularly by a White House
staff on a number of issues. Again, I'm not going to get into
exactly who briefs him on what subjects.
Q Another subject?
Q On another subject.
Q Now we're going to do gays in the military.
(Laughter.)
MS. MYERS: I welcome it.
Q How close are you to signing the biodiversity
treaty?
MS. MYERS: As you know, the President's giving a speech
on Earth Day tomorrow. We'll have more to say about it then.
Q Any details on where or when that speech is yet?
MS. MYERS: It's at 11:30 a.m. and I don't know where
yet.
Q Dee Dee, is this a major policy address? How would
you characterize the speech tomorrow?
MS. MYERS: I would characterize it as a Earth Day
speech. I wouldn't look for any major departures from his past
positions on these things. But, again, I don't want to get too much
into what he's going to talk about tomorrow.
Q On or off campus?
Q Is this at a location outside the White House?
MS. MYERS: It will be somewhere in Washington. We
don't know exactly where yet.
Q Dee Dee, what foreign leaders has the President
talked to since Friday on the situation in Bosnia?
MS. MYERS: Only Prime Minister Major. And again, he'll
try to reach President Mitterrand again this morning.
Q David Owen said yesterday and Joe Biden said today
-- both of them agree that the peace process is not going to work,
that the Serbs are not going to sign on. Does the administration
still believe that it can work and that they will sign on?
MS. MYERS: Obviously, the ultimate goal is some sort of
peaceful resolution to the conflict in Bosnia. As you know, the
administration is considering a wide variety of options at this
point. The situation there in and around Srebrenica and the rest of
Eastern Bosnia is quite serious. And the President will meet with
his Bosnian advisors today and continue to press forward on this.
Q Is that a question they're going to try to be
deciding whether or not the peace plan remains viable?
MS. MYERS: Again, they'll be reviewing a number of
options, including the peace plan.
Q Does the group that he's meeting with today include
Reg Bartholomew?
MS. MYERS: I don't believe he's here. But it will be
among the usual -- Secretary Christopher, Secretary Aspin, General
Powell.
Q Dee Dee, do you have anything on the apparent
encounter by U.S. F-15s over Bosnia today -- some aircraft violating
the no-fly zone?
MS. MYERS: No, I don't. I'll get back to you on that.
Q Will the President be meeting with every one of the
leaders coming to town for the Holocaust Museum?
MS. MYERS: He will. He'll be meeting, as you know,
with Vaclav Havel today and with Lech Walesa tomorrow, and then with
the rest of the group tomorrow afternoon.
Q As a group, or one by one?
MS. MYERS: I believe it's as a group. Now, Havel and
Walesa asked for meetings early and these have been on the agenda for
quite some time. But he will meet with all of the foreign heads of
state that are here.
Q Dee Dee, has the President decided whether he
supports the gay and lesbian civil rights act? And has anything been
worked out for him to address the march on Sunday?
MS. MYERS: I think he'll probably have a letter or some
kind of a statement to the march. We haven't worked out the exact
details of that.
Q Not a live phone hook-up?
MS. MYERS: Probably not, given the logistics of getting
to Boston. The speech, as you know, is at 4:00 p.m. The answer to
the other part of your question is, no, he hasn't taken a position on
it.
Q You said that speech in Boston was at 4:00 p.m.?
MS. MYERS: I believe so, yes.
Q Do you know what it's on?
MS. MYERS: We'll still working out --
Q General Vessey's coming back tonight from Vietnam.
When will he be meeting with the President?
MS. MYERS: No specific meeting is scheduled. We'll
talk to him at some point and see. We look forward to his report,
but exactly how he'll make that report is unclear.
Q So he's not going to come immediately to the White
House?
MS. MYERS: No.
Q The AIDS czar -- how close are you?
MS. MYERS: Still working on it.
Q Drug czar?
Q Do you expect it before the march?
MS. MYERS: I don't have a time line on it.
Q Did the President ask Senator Mitchell to try the
Lloyd Cutler ploy to break the filibuster?
MS. MYERS: I don't believe so.
Q Why not?
MS. MYERS: He's just not going to.
Q Are Senate Democrats here at this hour?
MS. MYERS: No, that's tomorrow -- tomorrow at 9:30 a.m.
Q Update on the stimulus, possible scaling down --
MS. MYERS: As you know, the Senate will vote on
amendments today. We'll continue to talk. The President is
committed to some kind of a jobs package; we'd like to see it passed.
And we'll continue in conversations throughout the day and see where
we end up.
Q When this briefing is over can you give us word
through the speaker or whatever whether the President's talked to
Janet Reno?
MS. MYERS: We'll be happy to.
Q It's become a pressing question for the last
several hours.
MS. MYERS: No, just this minute that I've been here,
and I haven't had a chance to follow up on it, Helen.
Q Does he have an opinion on Hatfield?
MS. MYERS: I mean, obviously, he prefers -- he offered
a compromise package of $12.2 billion. He believes that that's the
best alternative, believes that he's obviously willing to take a
second look at the package. And I think the Senate will vote on that
today, and we're hopeful that the President's bill, which will be the
Mitchell amendment, will be the one that will be approved.
Q Dee Dee, is there any White House official that
will be at the march on Sunday?
MS. MYERS: Somebody will be there representing the
President. I don't know who yet.
Q Well, has it been decided how he's going to
address? Is it going to be a videotape or a phone call?
MS. MYERS: I think it will probably be a letter, but
there hasn't been a final decision on that yet.
Q The official will read the letter, is that what it
sounds like?
MS. MYERS: Correct.
Q Lloyd Bentsen came in here this morning. Do you
know what was that about? Was that about this Waco thing?
MS. MYERS: No, actually it wasn't. It may have come
up, but it was about economic issues.
Q On health care -- is the 17th of May still the
target?
MS. MYERS: That's still the target.
Q And there's talk about a Joint Session of Congress
speech at the end of May --
MS. MYERS: We haven't resolved exactly how the
President will present the health care plan to the people. I
wouldn't rule that out as an option, but no decisions have been made.
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---
Hello!
We want to configure our X11R5 sytem (i486 33Mhz running BSD-like UNIX)
comming up with a chooser menu with different machines on it (works) an then
connect to them. But the only connection works is localhost!
An 'X -indirect <machine>' works very well!
The configuration:
- starting the 'xdm' at boot time with no servers specified
in Xservers
- starting the X-server at boot time with X -indirect localhost
---> the chooser menu appears with the machines named in
Xacces bye
'* CHOOSER <machine1> <machine2> ... BROADCAST
- the number of users on this machines and the load is
displayed correct
- selecting an other machine than my own host the X-server
starts and nothing happens, after a time out the CHOOSER menu
appears again.
I know the xdm bug in X11R4, but all machines running X11R5
Please help
Lars
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Know any Mormons?
Know for a fact that this was happening? State of Texas says it wasn't,
and they held a trial to prove it.
Sure we can. The top two things are perfectly legal. The bottom one
isn't. The person here who can't distinguish seems to be you.
So the constitution is only for people you approve of. Fine, fine.
I usually refer to that as "elitism," because "bigotry" is so negative.
Knowing that people like you are out there really gives me warm fuzzies.
--
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If I rember correctly, Lotus Notes gives u this possiblity, among other things...
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Then post what the press has said, not what you wished they said.
The Medical Examiner has refuted the FBI "facts" and if you don't
believe someone who has a LOT more reason to be impartial then
what do you have to say for yourself.
I was willing to grant this for sake or argument until I read the
following.
The FACTS as reported by the press and impartial government
sources support ME.
There is NO testimony, at the press conference, the FBI said they
had NO testimony, the SURVIVORS as reported by CNN and Newsday
wire service said that ALL the survivors gave consistent stories
refuting the FBI. They were lighting and heating with kerosine.
Are you trying to PROVE you're an idiot.
Then open your eyes and ears, at least 3 of those 4 sources have
reported your full of shit.
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Figured it out. The answer lies in mit/server/ddx/mfb/mfbcustom.h.
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They police did not beat King when he was on the ground. They beat him when
he was on his knees trying to get back up. If you had watche d the entire
video you would have seen this.
If you think this is true, much less relevant, than you are in sadder shape
than I thought.
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I once had a sparking problem with my '65 Mustang, and simply changing
the spark plug wires fixed it.
| 4
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Janet Reno killed the Waco children. She is responsible for
their deaths. She should resign immediately. She should have
understood that David Koresh was a madman who would do anything
against the children if he became provoked. All the warning
signs were there and she ignored them. She provoked Koresh
into killing the children.
The situation in Waco was similar to a hostage situation with
a madman holding a gun against the head of an innocent person.
In such a situation, a person who provokes the madman and causes
him to pull the gun's trigger is responsible for the death of the
hostage. Janet Reno blindly stumbled in there and basically
threw a tear gas container at the madman hoping that he would
release the hostage. It's no surprise that the madman would
pull the trigger in response to that kind of provocation.
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------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
The Colorado Daily recently reprinted the Wall Street Journal's article
on Paxton Quigley, including the nefarious little paragraph the Journal
tacked onto the end. After recieving much assistance from various T.P.G.
type folks, I wrote a letter to the editor criticizing this last paragraph,
and surprise, surprise, surprise, they published it. The text follows.
The Colorado Daily, btw, is the University of Colorado (Boulder) student
(I think) newspaper... not exactly a big coup, but every little bit, i guess...
(The title was the only thing they changed/added)
"Gun Stats"
The Daily recently reprinted an article from the
Wall Street Journal, primarily concerned with Paxton
Quigley, author of "Armed and Female." The article,
in turn, cites a misleading statistic that was originally
reported in the New England Journal of Medicine. The
article states, "A study... found that a gun in the home
was 43 times more likely to be used to kill its owner,
spouse, a friend, or child than to kill an intruder." This
is an often-quoted statistic, and it is misleading for sev-
eral reasons, outlined below:
The study gives the impression that, if you own a
gun, the likelihood that you will successfully use it to
defend yourself is less than that of the gun being turned
against you. The study, however, fails to take into
account cases where a law-abiding citizen uses a gun
to thwart a crime, without actually killing the perpe-
trator.
The study actually refers to 'acquaintances' rather
than 'friend'. This would include the friendly neigh-
borhood thug who shows up like clockwork, every
month, the second your grandmother cashes her social
security check. Possibly an acquaintance, but hardly a
friend.
The NEJM study is based on the immediate dis-
position of cases and fails to take into account cases
originally filed as homicides that were later ruled to be
self-defense. Especially considering the small sample
size (396), taking these events into account has a sub-
stantial effect on the 43:1 ratio quoted.
Criminologist Gary Kleck gives us a slightly dif-
erent statistic: a gun is 33 times more likely to be
used, successfully, by a private citizen against an
aggressor than it is to kill anyone at all. Further, per-
sons defending themselves from aggression by using a
gun fare better than those who resist vicimization by
some other means, or who offer no resistance at all.
Statistics available from the FBI and other agencies
also show that a gun is 245 times more likely to be
used by a non-criminal to defend against criminal threat
than to be used to commit criminal homicide, 535 times
more likely to be used to defend against a criminal
threat than to accidentally kill anybody, and 50 times
more likely to defend against criminal threat than to be
used to commit suicide.
It is well to keep in mind that nearly anything can
be proved by uncritical quotation of statistics. One has
to consider carefully what questions were asked by
those gathering the data before one can draw an accu-
rate conclusion from them.
D.F. Taylor
CU Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry
--
Spooksmoke: Revolution, Assasination, Thorium, Cobalt-60, Clintin, CIA, NSA, SHC
DoD #202 / loki@acca.nmsu.edu / liberty or death / taylordf@ucsu.colorado.edu
Send me something even YOU can't read...
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.2
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--
Pete Norton
peten@well.sf.ca.us
peten@holonet.net
norton@hou.amoco.com
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I don't think this will work. Still the same in space
integration problems, small modules, especially the Bus-1 modules.
the MOL would be bigger.
Also, budget problems may end up stalling developemnt.
A small undersized station wont have the science community support.
Program effeciencies may cut costs, but the basic problems
with freedom remain. in space integration, too many flights
too build. not enough science retrurn.
Essentialy $5 billion to build MIR.
I think had NASA locked onto this design, back in 1984, with
scarring to support a TRUSS for real expandability, we'd be looking
at a flying space station.
This looks the most realistic, to me, IMHO, but, i dont know if
there is enough will power to toss the CDR'd existing hardware
and then take a 1/3rd power cut and do it this way.
the core launch station has a lot of positive ideas. You could stick
in more hatches for experimental concept modules. Like the ET
derived workshops. Or inflatable modules.
pat
Sad but true.
epitaph. Killed by mis-management.
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>Remember that they've promised to let a committee of outside experts see
>the cryptosystem design.
I hope there are some silicon jocks on the committee who can follow
the algorithm through to hardware. While I doubt the NSA would pull
any monkey business on this point -- they have to expect that the
chip will be reverse-engineered sooner or later -- it's an obvious
opportunity to introduce additional holes.
The chip isn't the place to pull the monkey business - you do it in
the key generation, either by having a mathematical backdoor,
or by having the program on the laptop that supposedly generates the
keys also save a copy of S1 and S2 and leak it out somehow,
or by having the program that supposedly puts the official keys
on the chip actually put a *different* key there (VERY hard to detect,
since the escrow agents have to either trust the NSA laptop or
give each other the S* keys, and they still don't know the algorithm.)
Or have the chip-burner at the factory make copies of the keys.
Or whatever.
| 3
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|
A mileage chart should be available in the book. It usually goes by
the class of car you own and year. Usually you will end up adding a few
hundred dollars to the retail price or subtracting it... Consumer
Reports also has a number you can call and get a quote for your area.
A friend of mine used it, and was quite happy with the service. I
believe it cost about $10.00.
| 4
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|
The basic definition that I use is:
The belief that Jesus was God incarnate.
The belief that Jesus was crucified and raised from the dead
for our salvation.
The acceptance of Jesus as personal Lord and Savior.
This would include most Christian denominations, but exclude the Unitarians.
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|
I have some brand new copies of the following books for sale. Some are
down-rev, don't know which or by how much: look to # of pages, copyright
date, etc. for clues.
"PostScript Language Reference Manual", Adobe Sys. Inc., Addison-Wesley,
copyr. 1986, printed 1990. 299 pages. $22.95.
"PostScript Language Tutorial and Cookbook", as above, 243 pages, $16.95
I'll sell the above two books as a set for $15 postage paid w/in US.
"OpenLook GUI Functional Specification", Sun Micro, Addison-W, copyr. 1989,
564 pages, $34.95.
"OpenLook GUI Application Style Guidelines", 388 pages, $24.95.
I'll sell the above two books as a set for $15 ppd. w/in US.
O'Reilly & Associates Definitive Guides to the X Window System, copyr.
1990, "for version 11", "revised and updated for Release 4":
Vol. 0: "X Protocol Reference Manual," 498 pages $30
Vol. 1: "Xlib Programming Manual," 672 pages $34.95
Vol. 2: "Xlib Reference Manual," 792 pages $34.95
Vol. 7: "XView Programming Manual," 640 pages $30
I'll sell the above four books as a set for $35 ppd. w/in US
Due to the high hassle/$ ratio I am asking for pre-payment by check. I'll
be queing cashing, packing, and shipping so be prepared to wait 3 weeks
for your books to show up.
If you'd like to pick them up, I live in San Francisco. Same prices though.
E-mail me if you are interested. Thanks!
| 6
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|
Does anyone know of any type of acceleration sensor that has
an electrical output of any sort? It would only have to sense
acceleration in one direction.
Thanx,
Mike
--
| 15
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|
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.misc
Subject: Hiragana/Katakana TT fonts
Keywords: hiragana, katakana, TrueType, Japanese
Where can I obtain TrueType hiragana and katakana (Japanese phonetic character)
fonts?
(note: I can receive mail at the address in the header, but I cannot send.)
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|
I would agree that a propane explosion is as likely as an
ammunition/explosives blast. My question was directed to the
person who claimed that the propane tank was likely ruptured
by the tank before, or just as, the fire started. If that were
true, shouldn't the explosion have happened very soon after
the fires started?
The FBI has made such a fuss over the videotapes and other
evidence that they have to release something sooner or
later. It's going to happen, and we'll get to see for
ourselves.
Often law enforcement agencies will withold evidence from
public view until the investigation is over.
_____ _____
\\\\\\/ ___/___________________
Mitchell S Todd \\\\/ / _____/__________________________
________________ \\/ / mst4298@zeus._____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_'_/
\_____ \__ / / tamu.edu _____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_/
\__________\__ / / _____/_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_/
\_ / /__________/
\/____/\\\\\\
\\\\\\
| 19
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|
I have written the file manager HFM, wich has two windows which compare
the files in two directorys to find out wether there are equal or
similar files. The 7 most important operations, copy, move, delete,
show the file, start a progam, navigate in the directory tree can be
invoked by dragging a directory entry with the mouse. This is very
convenient, because the selection of the file and the operation to
be performed, occur in one move. For bitmap graphic viewing the
program vpic can be integrated, for spreadsheat and database files
I use the view program from PCTOOLS 7.1. HFM can be configured to
use arbitrary viewers to show special data formats. It does
also present archives from pkzip etc. as simulated subdirectorys.
This filemanager has a somewhat non standart user interface, but
it is very convienient to use and is the prefered file manager
in several labs in our university.
The drawback of this filemanager is, it's still a dos program and
the development of a windows version has not yet begun. I use the
program package run18.zip, where run tells its windows companion
sched.exe which windows program should be started. In this way you
can start a windows program from a dosbox. The new version 3.19
(to be released soon) includes a new command for automating this
windows program start.
FTP archives for the mentioned programs (all these archives have several
mirror sites)
Simtel oak.oakland.edu 141.210.10.117
/filutl/hfm318.zip
/gif/vpic60e.zip
Garbo garbo.uwasa.fi 128.214.87.1
/dirutil/hfm318.zip
CICA ftp.cica.indiana.edu 129.79.20.17
/util/run18.zip
-
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|
Dear news readers,
Is there anyone using sheep models for cardiac research, specifically
concerned with arrhythmias, pacing or defibrillation? I would like
to hear from you.
Many thanks,
Andrew Mears
*************** PLEASE EMAIL ME *************
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Peter> : > Does anyone have any other suggestions where the 42 came from?
Peter> Yep, here's a theory that I once heard bandied around. Rather than thinking
Peter> of the number think of the sound. For Tea Two. A sort of anagram on Tea For Two,
Peter> Two for Tea, For Tea Two.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Un other suggestion is there is no Tea above! It just
And For Two many things are possible; think binary, + -, Y/N,
L/R, T/F No wonder there was Eve for Adam!
Peter> :-)
Malek :-) :-)
--
Malek.
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At first this kind of ranting annoyed me, but now it's rather entertaining.
These kinds of posts don't require ANY facts, logic, or even sense. It's
kind of like what 10-year old kids do on the playground. So go on and play.
Not everyone on the net is as simple minded as you guys seem to be.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Nothing is as inevitable as a mistake whose time has Garrett Johnson
come." --Tussman Garrett@Ingres.com
"The probability of someone watching you is proportional
to the stupidity of your action." - Unknown
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This is, apparently, what passes for intelligent discourse at Trinity.
Joe "FBI cultist" Kusmierczak gets angry when its pointed out that
the FBI has told him is a LIE, the mounting evidence is that
they've lied about almost every detail of 4/19 except that they
were there. What can you expect of cultists like him, somebody
oughtta burn him out, and if he's trapped, well, good riddance!
Right Joe?
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kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) Pontificated:
Is this from the Quran (or however it's spelled)?
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MC> Theory of Creationism: MY theistic view of the theory of
MC> creationism, (there are many others) is stated in Genesis
MC> 1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
And which order of Creation do you accept? The story of creation is one of the
many places in the Bible where the Story contradicts itself. The following is
an example...
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle
after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his
kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of
the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every
creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be
alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the
field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he
would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was
the name thereof.
Even your Bible cannot agree on how things were created. Why should we
believe in it?
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: I have a little question:
:
: I need to convert RGB-coded (Red-Green-Blue) colors into HVS-coded
: (Hue-Value-Saturnation) colors. Does anyone know which formulas to
: use?
Lets see if I have this right... HSV == HSB == HSL ... and none of those
are the same as HLS. Hopefully, HVS is just a transposition of HSV, and
not yet another color model...
The following code should do the HSV (HSL) coding (I haven't tried it yet)
(Thanks to bultman@dgw.rws.nl)
Another possibility is /mirrors/msdos/graphics/graphgem.zip on
wuarchive.wustl.edu.
Bill Neisius
bill@solaria.hac.com
----------------
The following code is from the starbase (HP) manual:
(all coordinates noralised at 0-1 interval)
hsl_to_rgb(hue, saturation, luminosity, red, green, blue)
float hue, saturation, luminosity; /* input in HSL */
float *red, *green, *blue; /* output in RGB */
{
float frac, lx, ly, lz; /* temporaries */
hue = 6 * hue;
frac = hue - (int) hue;
lx = luminosity * (1 - saturation);
ly = luminosity * (1 - saturation * frac);
lz = luminosity * (1 - saturation * (1 - frac));
switch ((int) hue) {
case 0: case 6:
*red = luminosity; *green = lz; *blue = lx; break;
case 1:
*red = ly; *green = luminosity; *blue = lx; break;
case 2:
*red = lx; *green = luminosity; *blue = lz; break;
case 3:
*red = lx; *green = ly; *blue = luminosity; break;
case 4:
*red = lz; *green = lx; *blue = luminosity; break;
case 5:
*red = luminosity; *green = lx; *blue = ly; break;
}
}
/******************************************************************************/
rgb_to_hsl(red, green, blue, hue, saturation, luminosity)
#define max(a, b, c) ((a>b?a:b)>c?(a>b?a:b):c)
#define min(a, b, c) ((a<b?a:b)<c?(a<b?a:b):c)
float red, green, blue; /* input in RGB */
float *hue, *saturation, *luminosity; /* output in HSL */
{
float x, tempr, tempg, tempb; /* temporary values */
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FOR SALE
MS-DOS 6.0 UPGRADE
open but unregistered
3.5" disks
$40 or best offer
Please mail replies to gt7187c@prism.gatech.edu
| 1
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Path: dime!ymir.cs.umass.edu!nic.umass.edu!noc.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!waikato.ac.nz!ldo
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Waikato University)
Newsgroups: comp.multimedia,comp.graphics
Date: 26 Apr 93 05:09:15 GMT
References: <1993Mar31.074502.3590@aragorn.unibe.ch> <1993Apr16.212441.34125@rchland.ibm.com>
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand
Lines: 67
Xref: dime comp.multimedia:6358 comp.graphics:32606
OK, with all the discussion about observed playback speeds with QuickTime,
the effects of scaling and so on, I thought I'd do some more tests.
First of all, I felt that my original speed test was perhaps less than
realistic. The movie I had been using only had 18 frames in it (it was a
version of the very first movie I created with the Compact Video compressor).
I decided something a little longer would give closer to real-world results
(for better or for worse).
I pulled out a copy of "2001: A Space Odyssey" that I had recorded off TV
a while back. About fifteen minutes into the movie, there's a sequence where
the Earth shuttle is approaching the space station. Specifically, I digitized
a portion of about 30 seconds' duration, zooming in on the rotating space
station. I figured this would give a reasonable amount of movement between
frames. To increase the differences between frames, I digitized it at only
5 frames per second, to give a total of 171 frames.
I captured the raw footage at a resolution of 384*288 pixels with the Spigot
card in my Centris 650 (quarter-size resolution from a PAL source). I then
imported it into Premiere and put it through the Compact Video compressor,
keeping the 5 fps frame rate. I created two versions of the movie: one scaled
to 320*240 resolution, the other at 160*120 resolution. I used the default
"2.00" quality setting in Premiere 2.0.1, and specified a key frame every ten
frames.
I then ran the 320*240 movie through the same "Raw Speed Test" program I used
for the results I'd been reporting earlier.
Result: a playback rate of over 45 frames per second.
That's right, I was getting a much higher result than with that first short
test movie. Just for fun, I copied the 320*240 movie to my external hard
disk (a Quantum LP105S), and ran it from there. This time the playback rate
was only about 35 frames per second. Obviously the 230MB internal hard disk
(also a Quantum) is a significant contributor to the speed of playback.
I modified my speed test program to allow the specification of optional
scaling factors, and tried playing back the 160*120 movie scaled to 320*240
size. This time the playback speed was over 60 fps. Clearly, the poster who
observed poor performance on scaled playback was seeing QuickTime 1.0 in
action, not 1.5. I'd try my tests with QuickTime 1.0, but I don't think it's
entirely compatible with my Centris and System 7.1...
Unscaled, the playback rate for the 160*120 movie was over 100 fps.
The other thing I tried was saving versions of the 320*240 movie with
"preferred" playback rates greater than 1.0, and seeing how well they played
from within MoviePlayer (ie with QuickTime's normal synchronized playback).
A preferred rate of 9.0 (=> 45 fps) didn't work too well: the playback was
very jerky. Compare this with the raw speed test, which achieved 45 fps with
ease. I can't believe that QuickTime's synchronization code would add this
much overhead: I think the slowdown was coming from the Mac system's task
switching.
A preferred rate of 7.0 (=> 35 fps) seemed to work fine: I couldn't see
any evidence of stutter. At 8.0 (=> 40 fps) I *think* I could see slight
stutter, but with four key frames every second, it was hard to tell.
I guess I could try recreating the movies with a longer interval between the
key frames, to make the stutter more noticeable. Of course, this will also
improve the compression slightly, which should speed up the playback performance
even more...
Lawrence D'Oliveiro fone: +64-7-856-2889
Computer Services Dept fax: +64-7-838-4066
University of Waikato electric mail: ldo@waikato.ac.nz
Hamilton, New Zealand 37^ 47' 26" S, 175^ 19' 7" E, GMT+12:00
I'm afraid I missed the start of this thread, but there are three factors that
can significantly affect QuickTime's playback speed that you may want to take
into account:
(1) playback bit depth (things are fastest when you play a
movie back at the bit depth it was compressed for, this is usually 8 or 16
bit, but other depths are (of course) possible).
(2) type of scaling (QT is optimized for "double size" scaling, other scaling
factors hit peformance much harder).
(3) playback window position (MoviePlayer limits your window placement choices
to advantagous pixel boundaries by default, I'm not sure about Premiere).
Any combination of those can radically alter playback performance. Image size
is, of course, another biggie. Giving the movie player lots of RAM can also
make a real difference.
Forgive me if these were mentioned earlier in the thread...
-Peter Lee
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I would like to get some information on the current systems used for HD-TV
sound systems.thanks.
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Deloreans NEVER had a factory V8. They were considering production
with a turbo (or twin turbo, I forget) version of the standard V6. As
to who produced it, you got me!
Jonathan
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|
Don't expect to get top quality, just some toughness. I don't
view Makarov as a player who would add toughness.
Nelson, you're confusing skill and toughness.
Hey, get off the McGill/Hammond thing. I'm no fan of either. My
point is that last year the Sharks had toughness that was missing
this year. This year we had more skill, I'm all for that, but
if your skill players keep getting beat up and injured they
can't do you much good. Whether it's a cheap shot or not you
can't let the other teams push you around. The 1992-93 Sharks
simply got pushed around to much. Other teams knew this.
They knew they could aggressively check the Sharks and not
pay for it. Adding some players in the off season who will
add some toughness to the team will help insure that next
season other teams will be more hesistant to vigorously
check our skill players, or to take cheap shots. It doesn't
guarantee no injuries (nothing does), but it's something the
Sharks can do to reduce the number of injuries.
mark
just say
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THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
_____________________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release April 20, 1993
PRESS BRIEFING
BY GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS
The Briefing Room
12:36 P.M. EDT
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know, the President is going
to come out at 1:15 p.m. With your indulgence, I think what we'd
like to do is have the President award the National Teacher's Award
first and then have the teacher leave, or whatever, and then he'll
make a statement on Waco and take a couple questions. So if we can
just hold off going live and all that until that's done, it probably
will work out a lot better.
Q If you'll give us the time. That's the problem.
Q We've got a two-minute warning problem.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, it is a problem. It's about
1:15 p.m.
Q The teacher would walk off and then --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's -- I'm just trying
to work this out here. I think that's the best way to handle it.
Q Can I ask you a series of questions about the way
the President handled the notifications yesterday?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Sure.
Q Did you, for instance, talk to the Justice
Department about who would come out and discuss what had happened in
Waco and whether it should be the Attorney General or the President?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Why don't we just take a step even
farther back from that and look at the whole sequence of events on
the contact between the Justice Department and the White House. As
you know and as we've said, the President spoke with the Attorney
General on Sunday, Sunday afternoon. They had a good discussion,
about 15 minutes. The Attorney General informed the President of
what she wanted to do. He raised no objections. Obviously, she had
the implicit authority from the President to go forward. He raised
no objections. She went forward. They had a discussion of a general
nature about the incident.
Again, yesterday morning around 11:00 a.m., the
President spoke with the Attorney General again. They had a brief
discussion over what was happening in Waco. As you know, this was
before the fire broke out at the compound. And I think that was why
there was some -- just some confusion. I think that she was
confusing in her minds before and after the fire, not the actual day
when they spoke.
Then there was a number of contacts at a number of
different levels in the White House yesterday afternoon between the
Justice Department and the White House. They were informing us of
their decisions, what they would like to do. There was an FBI
briefing in Waco. The Attorney General had her press conference.
The President then issued a statement after that.
Frankly, yesterday afternoon, you know, there was a fair
amount of confusion over exactly what was happening on the ground in
Waco, and I think that we wanted to be very careful not to have the
President say anything until we had a much better sense of what was
actually happening on the ground. Once we were fairly clear on what
was happening on the ground in Waco, the President issued a
statement. He spoke with the Attorney General again yesterday
evening.
Q At what hour was that?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It was quite late. I believe it
was after he returned from the Holocaust Museum. He took a tour of
the Holocaust Museum last night.
Q And he went out to dinner.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I believe briefly. Yes, he went to
dinner and then he spoke with the Attorney General last night. I
don't know the exact time; I think it was relatively late. And he
just said, I think as Dee Dee has reported, that he just wanted to
tell her that he thought she handled a difficult situation very well,
that she did a good job in a tough situation, and that she should try
and get some sleep. He then, again, spoke with her this morning
about the follow-up in Waco, and about what they're going to do this
afternoon. As you know, the President will have an announcement to
make at 1:15.
Q Did he ever talk with Webb Hubbell yesterday, last
night, or this morning?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not to my knowledge, no.
Q Was Webb Hubbell the point man for the White House?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Webb Hubbell is the general White
House Liaison and several people talked to Webb. The Attorney
General was running the operation.
Q Did he tell her that she should sleep well, that
she had done a good job? Or he just tell her that she should get
some sleep?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think sleep well -- done a good
job -- I don't know the exact words. I think that sounds right.
Q I mean, sleep well has implications as to
conscience and whether she should feel badly about it or not.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I mean, I think everybody
feels badly when you have a situation when --
Q I understand that, but whether the issue of blame
is brought up in that phraseology.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's the spirit -- no, it
has nothing to do with that. The spirit with which it was offered
was that the entire administration and certainly the Attorney General
had to face a very difficult decision, a very difficult situation
yesterday. And that he thought that she had handled it well, as best
as she could and --
Q Well, does he think it was mishandled?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: -- it was just speaking of warm
words to a friend.
Q Does he think the situation was mishandled?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President --
Q In retrospect?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President stands by the
decisions of the law enforcement agencies, the decisions of the
Attorney General. He accepts full responsibility. At the same time,
I think that we all want to look to the future and figure out what
exactly happened, do a full review, and make sure we do what we can
to make sure this doesn't happen -- this kind of thing doesn't happen
again, or at least we know how to handle it.
Q How much did he know about what she was going to go
ahead with? I know that she made the case to him -- explained --
outlined the case for action. Did she say to him on Sunday precisely
what action?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think it was specific
operational detail as to what was going to happen. I think that they
had a general discussion about the action, about the advisability of
action. I think, as she noted, he asked a few general questions just
trying to get a sense of how things were considered. But it wasn't
minute-by-minute detail of how the operation --
Q Well, was it, "we are going in." Is it, "we're
going to use tear gas"? I mean, what?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I believe it was that we want to go
in and take some action that would increase the pressure on those in
the compound, and hopefully spur them towards some sort of movement
out.
Q George, was there ever a conscious political
decision made, or even a discussion about distancing the President
from --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not at all. I mean, we were in
close contact with the Justice Department. The President accepts
responsibility for this. At the same time -- I mean, we just wanted
to be very, very clear about how this happened and be as factual as
we could be on how the decisions were made. It is the responsibility
of those on the ground to make recommendations. The Attorney General
has operational control over this. The President obviously accepts
responsibility for all of this, and he stands by the Attorney
General.
Q George, there was a report on the television today
-- and I don't know more than that -- one of the members of the cult
had said going into a courthouse that the FBI had started the fire
and not themselves. There was also a picture yesterday on the TV of
a smashing into the building where the fire broke out. And my
question is, is the White House absolutely certain that this fire was
--
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: All the evidence we have is that
this fire was started by David Koresh and those inside the compound
-- every bit of evidence we have.
Q Did the President ask the Attorney General why do
this now, why this particular date, and did he ask about possible
consequences of either death or injury?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know the specific
questions. He had general questions about how the decision was going
about being made.
Q Those are general questions and did he ask
generally, why now?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he asked, have you
considered all of the consequences; have you considered the
recommendations? I don't know if he asked the question, "why now? "
I don't know if he asked that specific question.
Q Did she tell him why now in terms of the stuff
that's come out since then about the information provided by the
listening device about Koresh getting increasingly more violent?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I'm not certain how much
specific detail they got into. I know that she generally said that
this is the recommendation she's prepared to make, I mean, the
decision she's prepared to make. It's based on the recommendations
she was receiving from the field and after intensive questioning of
those involved. Again, I do not know how precisely detailed it was
beyond that.
Q What is the President's understanding why
yesterday? One of the people who went into the compound a couple
weeks ago came out over the weekend with some speculation that he may
have told law enforcement people something that precipitated this
action. Why yesterday?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: This is the first I've heard. I
think what we can go to is what the FBI and the Attorney General has
said. There were indications that those inside the compound were at
some danger. It was clear that the negotiations had broken down and
it was the judgment of the experts involved in the negotiations that
the situation was not going to get any better at all.
There was also some concern over the vulnerability of
the agents themselves who had been working long beyond the time that
these teams normally have to work. And as the Attorney General has
said, there was some concern over the fact that they did not have
replacements in place who could stand in for them, and there was a
concern over the safety.
All of these factors came into play. They also
considered the advice of a number of psychologists and other experts
on David Koresh and those in the compound. I would just go back to
what the Attorney General has said. You have to make the best
judgment you can, given the information you have at the time. They
did. Obviously, we all regret the loss of life. It's a terribly
unfortunate situation. We all wish it could have turned out
differently, but that doesn't take away from the judgments that were
made at the time.
Q George, when did the President know that they were
going to use tear gas? Was it before the assault on the compound?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I just don't know. I don't believe
he was given a lot of detail on exactly how the operation would go.
I just don't know.
Q Along that point, George, can you say whether the
plan was presented to the President by the Attorney General as a way
to end the standoff one way or the other yesterday?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it was presented as a way
to increase the pressure on those in the compound and, we all hoped,
as a way to move some of those out and bring it in -- it wasn't
presented as tomorrow is D-Day, this is it.
Q Is the President satisfied that, A, he had all this
relevant information necessary to make a decision, and B, that Janet
Reno had all the relevant information necessary to make a decision?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Oh, I think he's satisfied that
they were acting on the best advice and the best information they
had, and he's not second-guessing it in any way whatsoever.
Q George, was there a 12-hour gap between
conversations between the President and the Attorney General? In
other words, they spoke at 11:00 a.m. and they didn't speak again
until Clinton got back from dinner at --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's likely, yes.
Q Did he call her? What time did she call? Was
there a gap between when she called him? I mean, was he at dinner
when she called and --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, no, no. I think he called her
last night. I couldn't swear to it, but I believe he called her last
night. He just wanted to talk to her.
Q what was going on?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not that I know of, no.
Q What do you know about the situation now? Everyone
has perished who -- except eight or nine? And do you know any of the
other details?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know any more details than
the FBI reported in Waco.
Q watching CNN or how was he keeping track of what
is going on? If he wasn't talking to his Attorney General, how was
he keeping track of what was going on here? I mean, with all due
respect to CNN, is that how he was doing it?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. There was also -- as I said,
several people in the White House were in constant contact with their
counterparts at Justice to have the full and complete information.
Q Who were those contacts? I mean, was it Mack
McLarty, Webb Hubbell? How was the President being kept informed?
That's not a --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I believe Mack was in contact with
Webb. I spoke with several people at the Justice Department. I
believe Bruce Lindsey spoke with people at the Justice Department.
Either Bernie or Vince was also in contact at different times during
the day with people at the Justice Department. We were fully briefed
and fully informed.
Q We were told this morning that the President may
have spoken -- a chance that he may have spoken with Webb. Do you
know if that's true or not?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think there's a chance he may
have. I don't believe he did, but I think there's certainly a chance
that he may have at some point. I don't believe he did. I think
that the last contact he had during the day yesterday directly with
the Justice Department was the 11:00 a.m. phone call with the
Attorney General. But the White House was fully informed on a
minute-to-minute basis of what was happening in Waco and what was
happening at the Justice Department.
Q George, who decided that the briefing would be done
by the Attorney General?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The Attorney General.
Q Did you or did the White House communications staff
-- were you ever involved with that decision?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. We were told about it.
Q Did you ask her to go on Nightline and MacNeil-
Lehrer and all that stuff? Was that part of --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No.
Q there was no advice from the White House at all
about her -- she was on all night, all day. (Laughter.)
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, and she did a very good job.
Q Why did you decide to have the President's reaction
to the situation be only a written statement, which is traditionally
the White House's way of distancing the President from the issue, not
having him appear as personally saying anything?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, that wasn't the intent at
all. As I said, we had to -- we wanted to wait until we had all of
the information at hand. The President is also making a statement
today. The President made a statement yesterday morning. The
President has been fully involved --
Q After this turned into less than a successful
operation, the only statement from the President was what was on
paper after the Attorney General had already given what amounted to
the major facts in this.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, it was the first statement
from the President, not the only statement from the President, number
one.
Q After the --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Number two -- well, the first.
Number two, the Attorney General --
Q He gave a statement early in the morning when the
thing was starting to move --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Right. And he gave one yesterday
and he's giving one today. Now, the second point --
Q It just happens this was a written statement with
no sort of communications policy or thought process involved? It was
the President wants to put out a written statement?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Knowing what we knew at the time,
we thought it was appropriate for the President and he thought it was
appropriate to put out a written statement expressing his regret and
expressing his support for the Attorney General's --
Q Why was it not appropriate for him to personally do
something?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, he did personally do so.
That is his statement. It's a statement under his name.
Q George, yesterday during the briefing you didn't
say the President took full responsibility for what happened --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I certainly did.
Q No, what you said was --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's just not right, Susan.
Q Well, I think you can go back to the transcript, I
mean, unless I miss something --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'd love to.
Q Janet Reno said that she took full
responsibility and you said that she made the decision, that the FBI
--
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And the President takes
responsibility. Absolutely.
Q Took responsibility -- all right.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Check the transcript.
Q Considering how little was known about what was
going on inside the compound and, even now, how little is known, why
is Washington calling this a mass suicide?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I think that knowing what we
know now and given all of the actions of David Koresh before and
during, it is painfully clear that those there were under his
control.
Q It's stretching it a little bit where the kids are
concerned, though, isn't it, George?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that that is an entirely
different matter. I mean, I think that David Koresh must bear
responsibility for the deaths of those children, absolutely. But he
clearly was intent on creating some kind of an apocalyptic incident,
and that's what he did.
Q You're still operating completely on assumption,
right? I mean, you have no evidence, or you know of no evidence that
this was mass suicide.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We have evidence that those inside
the compound set fire to the compound, which led to the deaths of
those inside.
Q I didn't quite hear it. This might be Ann's
question, I didn't quite hear it. But at what time did Clinton
himself put out a statement on this? I know Dee Dee said some stuff
on this at 6:00 p.m., but the President put out --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: At 6:35 p.m., 6:40 p.m.
Q Right after the evening news went on the air?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, right when we had all the
information. We were working on it.
Q Dee Dee confirmed this morning that the
investigation the President is going to announce is going to be an
administration-run investigation. Why not have someone from the
outside to make sure that it's not colored by those who would have a
political stake, particularly those at the ATF whose actions have
already been --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that clearly the ATF and
the Justice Department will bear responsibility for the
investigation. That's not to rule out, as is often in investigations
like this, having some sort of independent involvement as well. But
it will be run by the Treasury and Justice.
Q Are you confident that you will not have any
problem getting --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely.
Q George, did the President reach out to anybody else
to get advice after the meeting with Janet Reno? And who else in the
White House sat in on that meeting? Anyone else from Justice?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't believe anybody else was
there at the time. It was a phone call on Monday, it wasn't a
meeting.
Q Sunday.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Sunday. It was a phone call, it
wasn't a meeting. I believe he might have been there with Bruce, but
beyond that, I think he just talked to the Attorney General.
Q George, you said that in that phone call, she said
that we want to go in and take action, as you said, that will force
him out. What did he think she was talking about? If he didn't know
about tear gas, what exactly was his idea of what he was approving?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he was approving an action
to increase the pressure on --
qQ It didn't matter how she did that?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, no. I mean --
Q What information did he have in terms of how this
would proceed? Presumably he would have wanted to know, not minute-
by-minute, but in a general sense --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he knew that this was the
recommendation of those on the ground and the recommendation of the
law enforcement agencies. I just don't know --
Q What is "this" -- when you say that "this" was the
recommendation --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The action to increase pressure. I
don't know exactly what he was told -- whether he was going to be
told that the tank was going to go up to the left wall and punch a
hole in the window, or whether he was just told generally that they
were moving forward in a way that would increase the pressure. I
just don't know.
Q It's hard to imagine him not asking, though.
Q that Janet Reno presented him with as her best
advice about what they should go forward with, he would have agreed?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He was -- he did ask some general
questions about the advice and recommendation he gave. At the same
time -- and I would repeat -- that this was based on the unanimous
recommendation of the law enforcement agencies involved.
Q George, it would seem that this question about just
exactly in what detail the President was informed about the nature of
the operation is going to come up again here and elsewhere. Can you
take that question and --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely. Yes.
Q get the answer and come back to us with all of
it?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q Can you tell us that there was never a meeting -- a
strategy session -- where you and others decided, we will put out a
written statement from the President and we will have Janet Reno be
on all of these television broadcasts?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Never. Never.
Q And you never called the Justice Department and
said to anyone or Janet Reno, "you're the one who needs to be out
front explaining this"?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not once.
Q It just happened that way that she was the
spokesman, that no one ever saw Bill Sessions until --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: She made a decision as Attorney
General that it was important for her as the operational officer in
charge, as the person who made the decision, to go out and take the
questions on this tragic incident.
Q She had no guidance from the White House at all?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We certainly didn't object.
Q But did you -- (laughter) -- no, I'm sure you
didn't object, but did you suggest it? Was this a plan --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. Absolutely not.
Q a strategy?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No.
Q Did she clear it?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No.
Q Did she notify you?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We certainly knew about it.
Q What happened to this great detailed process you
have for clearing and talking to every public information officer and
every -- under every rock and every place in government that
something as major as this could have occurred without a discussion
between you and the public information people at least at the Justice
Department?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The Attorney General made the
decision and the Attorney General wanted to go forward. It seemed
like a good decision. It was a good decision. She did a good job.
Q Let me ask it this way, George, if in hindsight how
you would handle it?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it was handled very well.
Q You wouldn't change a thing if --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Change what?
Q The way the White House handled any part of it --
from start to finish.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I think that's an awful broad
question and we're certainly going to have a review. One of the
reasons for the investigation is to look for ways in the future that
something like this -- see what we can learn from an incident like
this and see what we can learn about how to handle them. If you're
talking specifically about the issue of the press conferences, no,
there -- wouldn't make any change at all.
Q Two questions: First of all, on her going on TV,
no White House people or outside media consultants came up with this
idea? It's just very reminiscent of what you guys did during the
campaign.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: How so?
Q I'm thinking of like watching Clinton on Nightline
after the draft story; watching Clinton on --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: There's absolutely no comparison.
Yesterday there was a law enforcement incident. The incident ended
in tragic deaths of many, many people. The Attorney General was
involved in that decision. The Attorney General made the decision to
do that. She felt it was her responsibility in the interest of
public information to go out and take the questions of the press in
order to make sure that all of the questions were answered, and she
did a fantastic job.
Q The second question is, did -- as someone who knows
Clinton as well as you do, can you understand why it's sort of hard
to believe that he might not have asked some detailed questions about
what she intended to do? In other words, she came and she said, I'm
going to put pressure on them. It's hard not to see Clinton, who's
fairly intelligent and inquisitive, asking how.
Q What kind?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Both the Attorney General said that
he did ask questions, he did ask general questions. I don't have a
minute-by-minute account of the conversation.
Q How long a conversation?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it was about 15 minutes.
Q Telephone conversation?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q George, was the federal cost of this standoff ever
a consideration in terms of stepping up the pressure --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't believe so, no.
Q George, you keep saying that the President takes
full responsibility, but then you refer to it as her decision. Does
the President not accept the fact that as Commander-In-Chief, it is
ultimately his decision?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know what this has to do
with Commander-In-Chief. This was a law enforcement action, not a
military action. And he clearly takes responsibility for the
decisions of the law enforcement agencies involved taken in his
government. I mean, I think there's just no ambiguity about that.
Q But is he accepting it as his decision as well as
hers, or is he saying it's her decision? There's a difference.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As a matter of fact, it was her
decision. He did not object to that decision. He clearly takes full
responsibility.
Q George, this briefing has gone on just a little
over 15 minutes, and as you can see a lot of things can be exchanged.
What exactly did they spend 15 minutes talking about if it was just
very general? That's a long period of time in a phone conversation.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It is an awful long phone
conversation. It was a very important phone conversation. I think
Brit has asked that we take the question, and I've said that I would.
Q One of the things Reno said last night is that the
buck stops here. I think that was her direct quotation. Does the
President agree with that in this case?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President says he accepts full
responsibility. I think what the Attorney General was saying is that
she made a decision, that she's going to accept all the
responsibility that comes to her. And she's not shrinking from that
at all, but neither is the President.
Q At any point in the conversation last night between
the President and the Attorney General or this morning, did she ever
offer her a resignation?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not to my knowledge.
Q Even before the fire was out yesterday, there were
some Republicans on Capitol Hill calling for an investigation. Is
the White House at all concerned about the timing of those requests
trying to make political hay out of this situation?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. And I don't want to cast any
questions about the motives of those who are requesting
investigation. We want an investigation, and we'll have a full and
complete investigation.
Q In what forum will you answer Brit's question?
Will you put out a written statement? Will you -- the wires? How
will you answer the question that you've taken?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm just not sure.
Q George, can you remind us what the President was
doing all yesterday afternoon, where he was, and what meetings he was
involved in?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'll have to try and remember. He
had a series of meetings with different members of the staff during
the afternoon. He was certainly monitoring the situation in Waco and
getting periodic reports on that as well. He did see some on CNN as
well. I believe he saw a fair amount of the FBI press briefing as
well.
Q And those reports would have come to him from Mack
McLarty, would they -- do you think?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Mack talked to him, Bruce talked to
him, I talked to him.
Q George, to follow Helen's question, in their
conversation this morning did they discuss at all her statement last
night in response to the question about whether she would resign?
Did he say, I don't know why you felt the need to say that? I'm here
to reassure you that you don't have to do this? Did that come up at
all?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if it even came up
that specifically. I know that the bulk of the conversation was
discussing where do we go from here and what form the investigation
--
Q The didn't talk at all about her kind of
remarkable comment last night about --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I believe she was asked a
question.
Q And her response was, if the President wants me to,
I will.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Which would be, I think, the
standard response that most Cabinet members would give. I mean, it's
a conditional statement.
Q have a need to talk about whether -- personally
about whether the President wanted her --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if they talked about
it. I mean, what I learned about the conversation was that it was
largely about the investigation itself. And this just didn't come
up. I did not ask the question if they talked about --
Q Will you take that with the Brit package?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Certainly. (Laughter.)
Q George, for the record, does the President want her
to resign? I know Dee Dee answered this morning --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely not. He supports Janet
Reno. She's a good Attorney General. She's done a good job. She
handled a difficult situation extremely well.
Q George, does the President feel that he and Janet
Reno were let down by the unanimous professional advice from the law
enforcement experts on the ground?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. And the President is not
second-guessing that decision and those recommendations in any way.
That is not to say that he doesn't regret the loss of life.
Everybody regrets the loss of life in this situation. But the best
judgments were made in a difficult situation based on the best
information we had.
Q George, the 15-minute conversation was the one on
Sunday, is that correct?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q How long was the one at 11:00 a.m. yesterday
morning?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know. I'll take that
question, too.
Q Were these outside experts that they were
consulting with, or experts within the ATF and the FBI?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You'd have to ask them. I'm just
not sure. I know that there were several experts.
Q And also, why weren't there replacements for these
people? Is the unit that small?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I think it is a very small
highly-specialized unit. But I think it's one of the kinds of things
that the investigation will examine.
Q George, isn't there a factor here involving the FBI
Director? Normally, a president, when he wants to get information,
doesn't only asks the Attorney General. I know the chain of command.
But presidents talk to their FBI directors. In this case, throughout
this entire siege, he has not felt that he could pick up the phone
and talk to Bill Sessions, who is from Waco, and get expertise from
him on what to do and what not to do?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he talked to the FBI
Director well in the beginning of the situation when it first broke
out in Waco. At the same time, the Attorney General bears the
ultimate responsibility and he was getting fully briefed from the
Attorney General.
Q Don't you think the ambiguous situation that
Director Sessions is in has some impact on the way the President is
briefed and on the way that all of this evolved?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not at all. I mean, it's perfectly
appropriate that he be briefed by the Attorney General and that the
Attorney General has supervisory authority over the FBI Director, and
that's following the chain of command.
THE PRESS: Thank you .
END 1:03 P.M. EDT
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KK> Newsgroups: sci.crypt
KK> From: sphughes@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Shaun P. Hughes)
KK> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 07:18:59 GMT
[..]
KK> Just a random passing thought, but can anyone cite a documented use
KK> of encryption technology by criminals and terrorists.
KK> (Excluding the Iran-Contra Gang)
KK> Sure, the rum-runners in Prohibition. See Kahn's _The Codebreakers_.
KK> The irony was, they were using better codes and key security than
KK> most governments were.
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FULL 1993 CALDER CUP PLAYOFF SCHEDULE AND RESULTS
home team in CAPS *=if necesary
FIRST ROUND
Springfield Indians vs Providence Bruins
Gm 1: Springfield 3 PROVIDENCE 2
Gm 2: Springfield 5 PROVIDENCE 4
Gm 3: Providence 3 SPRINGFIELD 2
Gm 4: Providence 9 SPRINGFIELD 0
Gm 5: Springfield 4 PROVIDENCE 2
Gm 6: SPRINGFIELD 4 Providence 3
(SPRINGFIELD WINS SERIES, 4-2)
CD Islanders vs Adirondack Red Wings
Gm 1: ADIRONDACK 6 CDI 2
Gm 2: ADIRONDACK 5 CDI 3
Gm 3: Adirondack 3 CDI 0
Gm 4: Adirondack 3 CDI 1
(ADIRONDACK WINS SERIES, 4-0)
Baltimore Skipjacks at Binghamton Rangers
Gm 1: Baltimore 4 BINGHAMTON 3
Gm 2: BINGHAMTON 6 Baltimore 2
Gm 3: Binghamton 8 BALTIMORE 3
Gm 4: BALTIMORE 3 Binghamton 1
Gm 5: 4/26 Baltimore at Binghamton
Gm 6: 4/28 Binghmaton at Baltimore
Gm 7: 4/30 Baltimore at Binghamton *
Utica Devils vs Rochester Americans
Gm 1: Utica 3 ROCHESTER 2 (OT)
Gm 2: ROCHESTER 9 Utica 3
Gm 3: Rochester 6 UTICA 4
Gm 4: Rochester 4 UTICA 3 (OT)
Gm 5: ROCHESTER 3 Utica 2
(ROCHESTER WINS SERIES, 4-1)
Moncton Hawks vs St John's Maple Leafs
Gm 1: St JOHN'S 4 Moncton 2 (at Halifax)
Gm 2: ST JOHN'S 3 Moncton 2 (at Halifax)
Gm 3: St John's 6 MONCTON 5
Gm 4: MONCTON 5 St John's 4 (OT)
Gm 5: 4/26 Moncton vs St John's at Halifax
Gm 6: 4/28 St John's at Moncton *
Gm 7: 4/30 Moncton vs St John's at Halifax *
Cape Breton Oilers vs Fredericton Canadiens
Gm 1: FREDERICTON 4 Cape Breton 3 (2OT)
Gm 2: Cape Breton 5 FREDERICTON 2
Gm 3: CAPE BRETON 3 Fredericton 0
Gm 4: CAPE BRETON 6 Fredericton 5 (OT)
Gm 5: Cape Breton won
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I wouldn't and don't. I thought I did a pretty good job of
qualifying my statement, but apparently some people
misinterpreted my intentions. I apologize for my part in
communicating any confusion. My intent was more to
stir up discussion rather than judge. It seems to
have worked.
[rest of post noted - by the way, I did not originally post this to
alt.atheism. If it got there, I don't know how it did.]
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The answer to your second question lies in the way you phrased the
first one: 'the media is...'.
The medis isn't 'is'. The media 'are'. 'Media' means 'more than one
medium.' There are thousands of publications. Some say this, some say
that.
How can the bulk of the people be informed, when they won't read
informative publications?
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Start the renamed saver vid the commandline option /s.
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Radius 24X accelerated graphics adaptor. Supports multiple resolutions and
allows on-the-fly changing of resolution or bit depth. MSRP $1999, street
price $1700, your price: best offer over $800.
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6,888
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The following is what they feed to us..... most has been posted already,
but there are a number of items not seen here yet.....
Redesign Activities Update -- Following is the weekly status on redesign,
based on information provided by NASA headquarters.
The station Redesign Team (SRT) provided a detailed status report to the
Advisory Committee on the Redesign of the Space Station on April 22. The
day-long meeting was held in ANSER facilities in Crystal City, VA; topics
covered by the SRT included a preliminary mission and goals statement for
the space station; science, technology and engineering research; the
assessment process; and the design approach. Discussions on management
options and operations concepts also were held.
The Design Teams then presented the three options under study:
¥ Option A - Modular Buildup -- Pete Priest presented the A option. Priest
said the team is working to define a station that meets cost goals and has
identified three distinct phases of evolution - power station, human tended
and permanent presence. The team will define the minimum capability needed
to achieve each phase, the total cost of each phase and the achievable
capability for budget levels. The A option uses current or simplified
Freedom hardware where cost effective and is considering other existing
systems such as the so-called "Bus-1 spacecraft," the orbiter and Spacelab.
The Power Station Capability could be achieved in 3 flights with Freedom
photo voltaic modules providing 20 kW of power. 30-day Shuttle/Spacelab
missions docked to the power station are assumed for this phase.
Human Tended Capability would be provided by the addition of the U.S.
Common Module Module which adds subsystems and 9 payload racks and docking
ports for ESA and Japanese laboratories. 60-day missions with the orbiter
docked to the station are assumed for this phase. Different
operation/utilization modes are being studied for this phase.
¥ Option B - Freedom Derived -- Mike Griffin presented the status of Option
B activities. Griffin detailed the evolution of the Freedom-derived option,
from initial Research Capability, to Human-Tended Capability, to Permanent
Human Presence Capability, to Two Fault Tolerance, and finally Permanent
Human Capability. Griffin also outlined proposed systems changes to the
baseline program, with minor changes to the Communications and Tracking
system, Crew Health Care System and ECLSS, and a major change to the Data
Management System.
Initial Research Capability would be achieved with 2 flights to 28.5 degree
inclination (3 flights to 51.6 degrees) and consist of an extended duration
orbiter-Spacelab combination docked to a truss segment with 2 photo voltaic
arrays providing 18.75 kW of power.
Human-Tended Capability would be achieved in 6 flights and add truss
segments and the U.S. lab.
Permanent Human Presence Capability would be achieved in 8 flights with two
orbiters providing habitation and assured crew return.
Two Fault Tolerance, achieved in 11 flights, would build out the other
section of truss with another set of PV modules, thermal control and
propulsion systems.
The freedom derived configuration could achieve an International Complete
state with 16 flights. Three more flights, to bring up the habitat module,
a third PV array and two Assured Crew Return Vehicles (ACRV) would complete
the Permanent Human Capability with International stage.
Griffin told the Redesign Advisory Committee that eliminating hardware
would not, by itself, meet budget guidelines for the Freedom derived
option. Major reductions or deferrals must occur in other areas including
program management, contractor non-hardware, early utilization and
operations costs, he said.
¥ Option C - Singe Launch Core Station -- Chet Vaughn presented Option C,
the Single Launch Core Station concept. A Shuttle external tank and solid
rocket boosters would be used to launch the station into orbit. Shuttle
main engines would be mounted to the tail of the station module for launch
and jettisoned after ET separation.
The module, 23 feet in diameter and 92 feet long, would provide 26,000
cubic feet of pressured volume, separated into 7 "decks" connected by a
centralized passageway. Seven berthing ports would be located at various
places on the circumference of the module to place the international
modules, and other elements. This "can" would have two fixed photo voltaic
arrays producing approximately 40 kW of power flying in a solar interial
attitude.
In his closing comments to the Redesign Advisory Committee, Bryan O'Connor
said a design freeze would be established for the 3 options on April 26 so
that detailed costing of the options can begin. The next meeting with the
Redesign Advisory Committee will be May 3.
Russian Consultants Arrive in U.S. -- A delegation of 16 Russian space
experts arrived in the U.S. on April 21 and briefings to the SRT by members
of the Russian team began on the 22nd. The group includes Russian Space
Agency General Director Y. M. Koptev, and V. A. Yatsenko, also of the RSA.
Others on the team include representatives from the Ministry of Defense,
the Design Bureau SALYUT, the Institute of Biomedical Problems, the
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, NPO Energia and TsNIJMASH. The Russian team
briefed the SRT on environmental control and life support system, docking
systems, the Proton launch vehicle, Mir operations and utilization, and the
Soyuz TM spacecraft.
The Russian consultants are available to the SRT to assess the capabilities
of the Mir space station, and the possible use of Mir and other Russian
capabilities and systems as part of the space station redesign. They will
be available to the SRT through May 5.
Management and Operations Review Continues -- Work continued in the SRT
subgroups. The Management Group under Dr. Walt Brooks is working to
develop a family of options that solve the current problems and build a
foundation for the transition to development and operations. Various
management options have been developed including:
¥ Lead Center with the Center Director in the programmatic chain of
command.
¥ Host Center with the Program Manager reporting directly to an Associate
Administrator.
¥ Skunk Works/Dedicated Program Office with a small dedicated co-located
hand-picked program office.
¥ Combine Space Station with Shuttle, with the space station becoming an
element of the current program.
¥ Major Tune Up to Current Organization, with current contracts and
geographical distribution maintained but streamlined.
The Operations Group under Dr. John Cox is building on the work of the
Operations Phase Assessment Team lead by Gene Kranz of NASA-JSC, which had
already begun a comprehensive review of operations and had concluded in its
preliminary results that significant cost reductions are possible.
As part of its work, the Operations Group has identified teams of agency
experts to develop detailed evaluations of each design in the areas of
assembly and operations, utilization, maintenance and logistics and testing
and ground operations.
What's in the Week Ahead? -- The Design Support Teams will provide a
comprehensive status of their option to the Station Redesign Team on Monday
and Tuesday at which point the design will be "frozen" to begin the
detailed cost assessment. Also this week, the team will begin preparing
for the next round of discussions with the redesign Advisory Committee, to
be held May 3.
Dr. Shea Steps Down -- Dr. Joe Shea stepped down as director of the
Station Redesign Team on April 22 and Bryan O'Connor will take over the
activities of the team. Dr. Shea submitted his resignation as assistant
deputy administrator for space station analysis, but will continue to serve
as a special advisory to NASA Administrator Goldin and be available to
consult with the SRT. Mr Goldin accepted the resignation so that a request
from Dr. Shea to reduce his workload could be accommodated.
Key Milestones -- The key dates for the SRT as they are currently being
carried on the schedule are:
April 26
Design Freeze on Options for Costing
April 27
Design Support Team Present Selected Options to SRT
May 3
Status report to Redesign Advisory Committee
May 15
Interim report by Redesign Advisory Committee
June 7
Final report to Redesign Advisory Committee
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From article <1993May12.111030@IASTATE.EDU>, by jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan):
First of all, this is NOT a strife; this is a massacre of innocent
Moslem poeples by the Christian West.
Since Ottoman lost the control of Balkans, many tens and hundereds
of millions of Muslem peoples (Turks, Albanians, Bosnians, and others)
have been tortured, raped, massacred, and driven out of their homes
by the Cristians of both the region and Europe. Some lucky ones
escaped to relative safety in Turkiye. The remaining others are being
finished now by local Christians, the USA, and the rest of Europe.
The Christian West is maintaining a tight arms ambargo on the Muslem
peoples of Bosnia so they cannot deffend themslves while letting
Christian Serbs and Croats torture, rape, and massacre the innocent
Moslem peoples of Bosnia.
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If a Christian means someone who believes in the divinity of Jesus, it is safe
to say that Jesus was a Christian.
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole
that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
-- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)
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6,891
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I know, you all were saying "Ha! The Braves score a few runs for
Maddux, that'll shut that guy up."
But no, I think we'll just keep track a bit longer...
Last outing: 5 runs.
Total to date: 8 runs, 4 games
Braves record in Maddux's starts: 2-2
See ya next time.
Dennis
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6,892
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I have done several of these upgrades (about 6 IIsi's, and 1 Quadra 700), and
the best thing to use would be some sort of "heat sink compound". If possible,
you should look for the silicon-free stuff. There's a comany who makes the stuff
called Tech Spray, their address is: P.O. Box 949, Amarillo, TX 79105.
You should be wary in using most kinds of tape; and definately don't use duct
tape that stuff is for ducts...
When using the heat sink glue or compound, only use enough to fill the small
space between the heat sink and the CPU.
Mario Murphy
| 10
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6,893
|
I need a little help from a Texas Rangers expert.
I was at Yankee Stadium Sunday (12-2 Texas rout) with my kids. We
wandered out to the outfield during Rangers batting practice and
I caught a ball tossed into the stands (actually wrestled some guy
a bit, I might add) by #62 on the Rangers. Who is he? Looked like
a bullpen assistant type, youngish I think. He was not in the
roster listed in the Yankee scorecard. Any ideas?
Please e-mail as I haven't been reading r.s.b regularly.
Thanks.
- Bob
| 11
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6,894
|
[bible verses ag./ used ag. homosexuality deleted]
also check out the episcopal church -- although by no means all
episcopalians are sympathetic to homosexual men and women, there
certainly is a fairly large percentage (in my experience) who are. i
am good friends with an episcopalian minister who is ordained and
living in a monogamous homosexual relationship. this in no way
diminishes his ability to minister -- in fact he has a very
significant ministry with the gay and lesbian association of his
community, as well as a very significant aids ministry.
my uncle is gay and when i found this out i had a good long think
about what the bible has to say about this and what i feel God thinks
about this. obviously my conclusions may be wrong; nonetheless they
are my own and they feel right to me. i believe that the one
important thing that those who wrote the old and new testament
passages cited above did NOT know was that there is scientific
evidence to support that homosexuality is at least partly _inherent_
rather than completely learned. this means that to a certain extent
-- or to a great extent -- homosexuals cannot choose how to feel about
other people -- which is why reports of "curing" homosexuals always
chill me and make me feel ill. please not that, although i can't cite
sources where you can find this information, there is homosexual
behavior recorded among monkeys and other animals, which is in itself
suggestive that it is inherent rather than learned, or at least that
the word "unnatural" shouldn't really apply....
please remember that whatever you believe, gays and lesbians shoul not
be excluded from your love and acceptance. christ loved us all, and
we ALL sin. and he himself never said anything against homosexuals --
rather it is paul (who also came out with such wonderful wisdom as
"women shouldn't speak in church" and "women should keep their heads
covered in church" -- not exact quotations as i don't have my bible
handy) who says these things. i have a tendency to take some of the
things paul says with a grain of salt....
well, that's all i'll say for now.
vera noyes
| 18
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6,895
|
Don Alvarez posted a good partial solution to this problem to
comp.risks. I'll present my variant on it instead, since I feel it's a
bit stronger against some likely attempts to cheat. depends on the
protocol that's followed for reading traffic. Briefly, the cops get a
wiretap warrant, and record the call. They then notice the encryption
and the disclosure header. It, along with a copy of their warrant, is
sent to the FBI, or whoever it is who holds the family key. The
F-holder decrypts the header, and sends the serial number N and the
encrypted session key U[K] to the escrow agents. They, in turn, use U1
and U2 to recover K, and send that to the local police.
Note how this solves the problem of wiretapping forever. Neither the
cops nor the FBI ever see U, so they can't read other traffic. Every
request must be validated by both the FBI and the escrow agents. The
cops and the FBI together can't cheat, since they don't have U. (I
regard that as a likely pairing of folks who might try to beat the
system. It's to prevent this that I modified Alvarez's scheme.) The
escrow agents can't read the conversation, since they don't have it;
all they have is N and U[K]. And the police don't even see N.
| 3
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6,896
|
But this is all gun control laws end up doing. Politicians can never
manage to get a handle on those who obtain arms illegally, so all their
laws can ever do is further restrict people who obtain them legally.
Karen McNutt, a local attorney, states that there are about two MILLION
licensed gun owners in Massachusetts. In the past year, the number of
licensed gun owners involved in gun crimes was something like SIX.
Yet, there were a large number of gun crimes in the state last year.
Does passing laws that will further restricting only those people ALREADY
obeying laws pay any dividents?
So far, I've seen them treated with the least respect by legislators.
See, this is what I call the "argument from religion:" "I believe." Don't
believe -- it's not NECESSARY to take this on faith. Go look at the history
of countries that passed gun restrictions. Pay particular attention to
whether or not violent crime was HIGHER before the restrictions and LOWER
after. (Don't look at "violent gun crimes," that's begging the question.)
You may be very surprised.
You have this absolutely backwards. If crime stopped in the presence of
strict gun control, there is NO WAY I would consider lifting any of it.
However, if gun control made absolutely NO IMPROVEMENT in the violent
crime rate, THAT'S when I would have it lifted. Think about it.
So far, none of the stats show any improvement...
Do you really think driver's tests are any indication of your propensity
for having accidents?
I've never known anybody stupid enough to take a driving test while
drunk; after having been up all night; with two fighting kids in the
back seat; with a hot cup of coffee on their lap; or while putting on
makeup, reading the newspaper, or talking on their cellular phone.
But that's what they're doing when they have those accidents.
How can anything that has no positive effect at all ever be "necessary?"
And it didn't help, any of it.
I'm sorry, I don't remember any story where Winnie the Pooh was
offered weapons.
--
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Poor Phill Hallam-Baker. The tremors are getting worse, and his
stratospheric typing skills can no longer keep up. [spelling flame or
real sympathy - only his hairdresser knows for sure]
[Official Mossad policy: we don't stop until we get Disneyland!]
| 2
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6,898
| 16
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6,899
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*sigh*
It is standard procedure to suspend law enforcement officers, or re-assign
them to administrative (non enforcement) duties, while an investigation
into possible misconduct is going on. The Administration has given no
indication that such suspensions will occur in this case. And given that
the president, attorney general and governor were all involved in the
decisions that led to the Waco Massacre, they should also suspend all
activities regarding law enforcement. Given their positions, that equates
to an enforced vacation.
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