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Dataset card Data Studio Files
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Well, I tried, you got to admit I tried. I thought I might just trap you there, Wilhelm, but David here was too quick for me. Smart move, David, smart move. No, I don't have the telegram, but I know it exists. And I want you to know, Wilhelm, we're going to keep looking for it because I believe you sent it.
Then you are wrong.
Art and politics, yeah, art and politics. Let's look at that. You and the Berlin Philharmonic toured the Third Reich, played in countries the Nazis had conquered. Are you saying that conducting in occupied territories from 1939 on wasn't a commercial for Adolf and all he stood for?
We never, never officially represented the regime when we played abroad. We always performed as a private ensemble. As I think I already told you, I was a freelance conductor.
You know something? You should've written our insurance policies for us because you got more exclusion clauses than Double Indemnity. What do you imagine people thought? The Berlin Philharmonic's taken over by Doctor Goebbels and his Propaganda Ministry but Wilhelm is a freelance, so art and politics are now entirely separate? Is that what you believed ordinary people thought?
have no idea what ordinary people thought.
No!
No, because I had only one intention. My only intention whatever I did was to show that music means more than politics.
Tell me about von der Null.
Von der Null?
Yes, von der Null.
Von der Null?
How long's this going to go on, Wilhelm? I say von der Null, you say von der Null, I say von der Null, you say von der Null, we could go on all day. You know who von der Null is, don't you? Edwin von der Nuell, music critic.
Yes, I know who he is.
Isn't it true that because he gave you bad reviews and praised this young guy, Von Karajan, called him a goddamn miracle, said he was a better conductor than you, then you had von der Null conscripted into the army and no one's heard from him since?
That's an outrageous lie!
You sure you didn't call one of your close buddies and say, God in heaven, did you see what that guy von der Null wrote about me? The greatest conductor on earth. I want him out the way. He had the nerve to accuse me I am not playing enough modern music. Send him to Stalingrad. Isn't that what you did? You don't like criticism, do you, Wilhelm? You surely didn't like them saying there was another conductor who was better than you... Are you saying the name von der Null was never mentioned in your talks with Goebbels?
Well. Once he said he'd read what this man wrote about me.
And what did he say?
He said, 'Don't mind him. His job is to criticise, your job is to conduct.'
And what happened to Von der Nul?
I have no idea.
You've really no idea? I'll tell you what happened. He died in Stalingrad.
I'm sorry.
Now, that young conductor what's his name? That miracle kid, you know who I mean. Von Karajan! But you called him something else. C'mon. What did you call von Karajan?
Please stop playing these games with me. Why you should bring up the name of another conductor is beyond my understanding.
I'll tell you why. You remember we talked about you playing for Hitler's birthday? And you told me that Goebbels got to your doctors first, that you were tricked?
Yes, that's what happened.
Come on, admit it. K worried you, didn't he? He always worried you. In 1942, he's thirtyfour years old, you're already fiftysix. And Goebbels and Goering keep saying to you, 'If you don't do it, little K will.' Never mind art and politics and symbols and airyfairy bullshit about liberty, humanity and justice because I don't care how great you are. It's the oldest story in the book, The ageing Romeo jealous of the young buck. The real reason you didn't leave the country when you knew you should have was that you were frightened that, once you were out of the way, you'd be supplanted by the Miracle Kid, the Party's boy twice over, flashy, talented little K.
This is absolute nonsense!
Well, I'm just beginning to develop my theme. Isn't that what you call it in classical music, developing your theme? Okay, so they played on your insecurity. That's human, understandable. But, there is one guy who doesn't like little K as much as he likes you yeah, the number one man your old pal, Adolf. He thinks you're the greatest, and when he says, I want Wilhelm for my birthday, boy, they better go out get Wilhelm. So, Josef calls and threatens you with little K. And you said to hell with the Ninth in Vienna, I'll give it to Adolf as a birthday present in Berlin. That's the trick they played, they got you by the balls and they squeezed. Hard. Why did you stay? Why did you play for them? Why were you the flagcarrier for their regime? Jealousy?
Of course there was a conspiracy against me, a campaign even abroad.
I have illegitimate children.
What?
I said I have illegitimate children. I don't know how many.
You like the women, don't you, Wilhelm?
Stop this, please, stop this now!
No, I'm not going to stop it. Hitler himself offered you a beautiful house and a personal bomb shelter.
I absolutely refused the house and the bomb shelter.
But you see what I'm getting at? You get a gorgeous house, you're highly paid. What are you gonna do, stay or leave? One voice comes back at me: stay!
Okay, Wilhelm, go home now. Go home and think about these past twelve years.
I don't understand what you mean.
No, that's your problem, Wilhelm. You understand nothing. We'll call you. Go!
Everybody says what a great benefactor you were to the Jews. But I have things here you said and wrote. Listen to this: 'The Jew composer Schonberg is admired by the Jewish International.' And what about this: 'Jewish musicians lack a genuine affinity with our music.' 'Jewish musicians are good businessmen with few scruples, lacking roots.' You deny you said these things?
Those attitudes do not exist in me.
I believe that. But just answer the question, don't give me explanations.
Speaking to Party members I used their language, of course I did, everyone did.
Do you know what that is?
Of course I know what that is.
Okay, so what is it?
Bruckner's Seventh. The Adagio.
Who's conducting?
How can I know such a thing?
I'll tell you, then. The last time this music was played on these air waves was after they announced that your pal Hitler had shot himself. Listen to it. They listen. Did they pick little K's recording? Did they pick some other conductor? No, they picked you, and why? Because you represented them so beautifully. When the Devil died, they wanted his bandleader to conduct the funeral march. You were everything to them.
Have you ever smelled burning flesh? I smelt it four miles away. Four miles away, I smelt it. Have you ever seen the gas chambers, the crematoria? Have you seen the mounds of rotting corpses? You talk to me about culture, art and music? You putting that in the scales, Wilhelm? You setting culture, art and music against the millions put to death by your pals? They had orchestras in the camps. They played Beethoven, Wagner. The hangmen were playing chamber music at home with their families. I don't understand the Germans' relationship with music. What do you need music for? Your pals you could call to save a few Jews when millions of them were being annihilated? Yes, I blame you for not getting hanged, I blame you for your cowardice. You strutted and swaggered, you fucking piece of shit, kingpin in a shithouse. You talk to me about walking a tightrope between exile and the gallows, and I say to you, lies!
I love my country, I believe in music, what was I to do?
Look around you. See the country you served. Look at people who had real courage, who took risks, who risked their lives. Like Emmi's father.
You live here, in Berlin?
Yes.
You do shorthand and typing?
Yes.
Okay, let's see. How long were you in the camp for?
Three months.
Says here because of your father. What's that mean?
My father was one of the officers in the plot against Hitler. They arrested the plotters and their families.
Your mother, too.
Yes. She suffered longer. She was in Ravensbruck.
And your father was executed.
Steve.
There have been messages for you. A Lieutenant David Wills called from the Allied Kommandatura Cultural Affairs office in Wiesbaden. I don't know who he is.
Think you can get me any of that?
Oh yes, Major, I have recordings of all his symphonies. I kept them safe during the bombing. My favourite is the Seventh Symphony.
Mine's the Eleventh.
But... he only wrote nine, Major.
I'm kidding, Emmi. What about a record player? You have that, too?
No. Ours was damaged.
What's in those files?
The names of the members of the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra since 1934 together with their questionnaires. Major, what am I to tell Dr. Furtwngler?
You tell him nothing, Emmi. If he calls again, you say you know nothing. We're gonna keep him waiting while I get acquainted with his case and with the witnesses. And, God help me, with Beethoven.
I'm sorry.
Come in, Emmi, this is your office, too. Emmi, this is Lieutenant David Wills.
Major, Major... he's here ...
Shut the door, Emmi. Sit down, Emmi. We're going to keep him waiting, too.
Bruckner's Seventh, Major.
Do you know where the Adagio begins?
Of course.
Put it on ready to play, and I'll tell you when to play it.
I'm sorry but I have to leave. I'll find other work. You'll have to get someone else, that's all.
What is this, Emmi?
I can't do this. It's not right.
What's not right?
I have been questioned by the Gestapo just like that. Just like you questioned him.
Emmi, stop! I want to show you something. Let me show you something and then if you want to leave, you can leave, please please. His friends, they did this. And he gave them birthday concerts.
But he had no idea, a lot of people had no idea. I only realised what was really going on when I got arrested.
If he had no idea, why did the Jews need saving? This is the question, Emmi, to all Germans: Why did the Jews need saving in this country? Why, if people had no idea?
I would like to go now, please.
Hello, Major, my name is Dymshitz. I'm glad to see you.
Colonel. Pleasure.
So, Major, tell me, have you questioned Dr. Furtwngler?
Not yet.