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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
that were banned for doing different things.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:20.420
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
And, you know, there's, and again, you can't go in,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:22.700
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
they can't go into detail in terms of how they're doing it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:24.980
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Cause otherwise, you know, then you're sort of giving
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:27.840
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
the cheats the playbook in terms of how to take advantage.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:29.940
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
But it's always gonna be a concern for poker
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:32.580
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
wherever you play, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:34.580
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
But it's not something I'm worried about personally.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:37.920
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So at the highest in person, and by the way,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:40.340
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
online there's really interesting algorithms
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:42.460
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
that do some of the work in an automated way
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:44.500
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
to detect, to flag things that are weird.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:46.660
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
But in person, it's just not something at the highest level
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:50.060
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
that you're super concerned about.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:52.660
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So it's not, it didn't quite infiltrate the poker world
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:54.220
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
to a degree where it's a huge concern.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:50:58.100
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Yeah, like, so here's the thing.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:51:00.020
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I don't play in private games and whatever, right?
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
But in private games, theoretically, you know,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:51:04.020
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
you could be in, if you don't trust the people
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:51:06.200
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
you're playing with, like I've heard stories of people
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:51:07.820
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
where, you know, they have an earpiece in
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
that you can't see, right?
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
And they have, you know, like RFID on the cards
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
or something like that, and they have a phone reading it.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So they have somebody in a truck telling them,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
you're gonna win this hand, you're gonna lose this hand.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:51:21.460
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Like that happened in a private game.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
You know, and the guy, what's often funny
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:51:24.860
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
about some of these people who cheat is they're so greedy
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:51:26.700
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and blatantly obvious that they get caught.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:51:30.120
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Where if they use this tool in a more subtle way,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:51:32.420
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
they could probably continue to get away with it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:51:35.120
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
But again, that's not something I worry about
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:51:37.320
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
in a casino environment, you know, in these tournaments
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and things like that.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
But if I was playing in private games,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
like if I came down to Texas and some guy,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:51:45.820
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I got cheated in a game by a guy named Blackie Blackburn
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and Tex, I was at the Chimo Hotel, I was a teenager
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and they saw me playing, you know,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I was making good money as a teenager.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I had like a $13,000 bankroll, you know,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and I went and played in this game with them
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
in a private hotel room and found out later
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
that the guy was a card mechanic, you know,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
he was dealing and he could, you know, deal you the hands
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and he knew what you had and stuff like that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:08.860
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So yeah, I remember, you know,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I lost a big number in that game
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and it was a good learning lesson in terms of, you know,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
being wary of who you trust.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:16.980
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Yeah, so if the dealer is in on it,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:18.380
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
that's one way you could cheat.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:22.120
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
It's fascinating.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:23.840
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
That's part of the reason that they cut.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:25.440
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So like, you'll see like, there's a burn card
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:27.440
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
because what would happen in, you know,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:30.800
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
maybe in the old days is like,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
if you're sitting in the one seat,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:33.680
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I could lift the card and you could see it,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:34.700
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
the next card coming, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:36.440
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So what they do is they have a card on top of it
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:38.080
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
that you burn that isn't the card
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and then the next card is the one that comes face up.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:41.200
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I just learned about the edge sorting thing
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:44.020
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
that Phil Ivey and maybe others were involved with.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:48.640
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I just, reading it at first was super interesting to me
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:52.040
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
that you can exploit the imperfections
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:52:55.680
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
in the printing of cards.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
That was almost cool to me.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:01.560
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
That's almost not cheating because it's like.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:02.840
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
That needs to be a movie.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:05.840
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
That needs to be a movie, yes.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:07.280
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Yeah, what happened with Phil Ivey in that whole case
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:08.760
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
is it's a catastrophe, really.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:10.760
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
It is such a horrible precedent.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:12.900
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Cause here's what he did.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:14.840
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Phil Ivey shows up at the casino says,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:15.780
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I want to play this game.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
They say, okay, all right, I want to play with those decks.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
They say, okay, they agree to everything that he says.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
He never touches the cards.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
He doesn't do anything outside of the fact
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
that your cards that you supplied
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:28.200
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
have imperfections on them and he can see them.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:30.360
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Okay, so that increases his chances of winning.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:33.040
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
He could still lose theoretically, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:35.680
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Probably not, but he can lose.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:38.040
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
In theory, it just gives him a little bit of an edge
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:39.860
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and it's all stuff based on what you provided.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:44.200
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So the idea that you offered a game, I accepted, I beat you
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and now you want to free roll me?
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
That's disgusting.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:50.280
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So for people who don't know, maybe you can elaborate
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:51.680
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and it's just fascinating to me,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:53.800
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
but you're exploiting the imperfections
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
in the card patterns on the back
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and then they look different if you rotate it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#01:53:59.440