conversations listlengths 2 2 |
|---|
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "And now, boy, you may take the roll and read. EUCLID'S SERVANT READS."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "If I cared enough about the Cyrenians, Theodorus, I would ask you whether there are any rising geometricians or philosophers in that part of the world. But I am more ... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "for he has a quickness of apprehension which is almost unrivalled, and he is exceedingly gentle, and also the most courageous of men; there is a union of qualities in him such as I have never seen in any other, and should scarcely have thought possible; for those who, like him, ... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "The name of his father I have forgotten, but the youth himself is the middle one of those who are approaching us; he and his companions have been anointing themselves in the outer court, and now they seem to have finished, and are coming towards us. Look and see whether you know... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Theaetetus, Socrates, is his name; but I rather think that the property disappeared in the hands of trustees; notwithstanding which he is wonderfully liberal."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "He must be a fine fellow; tell him to come and sit by me."
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I will. Come hither, Theaetetus, and sit by Socrates."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "By all means, Theaetetus, in order that I may see the reflection of myself in your face, for Theodorus says that we are alike; and yet if each of us held in his hands a lyre, and he ... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "We should ask."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And if we found that he was, we should take his word; and if not, not?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "True."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And if this supposed likeness of our faces is a matter of any interest to us, we should enquire whether he who says that we are alike is a painter or not?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Certainly we should."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And is Theodorus a painter?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I never heard that he was."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Is he a geometrician?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Of course he is, Socrates."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And is he an astronomer and calculator and musician, and in general an educated man?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I think so."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "If, then, he remarks on a similarity in our persons, either by way of praise or blame, there is no particular reason why we should attend to him."
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I should say not."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "But if he praises the virtue or wisdom which are the mental endowments of either of us, then he who hears the praises will naturally"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Very true, Socrates."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Then now is the time, my dear Theaetetus, for me to examine, and for you to exhibit; since although Theodorus has praised many a citizen and stranger in my hearing, never did I hear him praise any one as he has been... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I am glad to hear it, Socrates; but what if he was only in jest?"
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Nay, Theodorus is not given to jesting; and I cannot allow you to retract your consent on any such pretence as that. If you do, he will have to swear to his words; and we ... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I suppose I must, if you wish it."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "In the first place, I should like to ask what you learn of"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And astronomy and harmony and calculation?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I do my best."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Yes, my boy, and so do I; and my desire is to learn of him, or of anybody who seems to understand these things. And I get on pretty well in general; but there is a little difficulty which I want you and the"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Of course."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And by wisdom the wise are wise?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And is that different in any way from knowledge?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "What?"
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Wisdom; are not men wise in that which they know?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Certainly they are."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Then wisdom and knowledge are the same?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Herein lies the difficulty which I can never solve to my satisfaction—What is knowledge? Can we answer that question? What say you? which of us will speak first? whoever misses shall sit down, as at a game of ball, and shall be don... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "The reverse of rudeness, Socrates: but I would rather that you would ask one of the young fellows; for the truth is, that I am unused to your game of question and answer, and I am too old to learn; the young will be more suitable, and they will improve more than I shall, for you... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Well, Socrates, I will answer as you and he bid me; and if I make a mistake, you will doubtless correct me."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "We will, if we can."
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Then, I think that the sciences which I learn from Theodorus—geometry, and those which you just now mentioned—are knowledge; and I would include the art of the cobbler and other craftsmen; these, each and all of, them, are knowledge."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "To... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "What do you mean, Socrates?"
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Perhaps nothing. I will endeavour, however, to explain what I"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Just so."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And when you speak of carpentering, you mean the art of making wooden implements?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I do."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "In both cases you define the subject matter of each of the two arts?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "True."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "But that, Theaetetus, was not the point of my question: we wanted to know not the subjects, nor yet the number of the arts or sciences, for we were not going to count them, but we wanted to know the nature of knowledge in the abst... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Perfectly right."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Let me offer an illustration: Suppose that a person were to ask about some very trivial and obvious thing—for example, What is clay? and we were to reply, that there is a clay of potters, there is a clay of oven-makers,... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Truly."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "In the first place, there would be an absurdity in assuming that he who asked the question would understand from our answer the nature of 'clay,' merely because we added 'of the image-makers,' or of any other workers. How can a m... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "He cannot."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Then he who does not know what science or knowledge is, has no knowledge of the art or science of making shoes?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "None."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Nor of any other science?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "No."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And when a man is asked what science or knowledge is, to give in answer the name of some art or science is ridiculous; for the question is, 'What is knowledge?' and he replies, 'A knowledge of this or that.'"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "True."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Moreover, he might answer shortly and simply, but he makes an enormous circuit. For example, when asked about the clay, he might have said simply, that clay is moistened earth—what sort of clay is not to the point."
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes, Socrates, there is no difficulty as you put the question. You mean, if I am not mistaken, something like what occurred to me and to my friend here, your namesake Socrates, in a recent discussion."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "What was that, Theaetetus?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "he selected other examples up to seventeen—there he stopped. Now as there are innumerable roots, the notion occurred to us of attempting to include them all under one name or class."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And did you find such a class?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I think that we did; but I should like to have your opinion."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Let me hear."
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "We divided all numbers into two classes: those which are made up of equal factors multiplying into one another, which we compared to square figures and called square or equilateral numbers;—that was one class."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Very good."
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "The intermediate numbers, such as three and five, and every other number which is made up of unequal factors, either of a greater multiplied by a less, or of a less multiplied by a greater, and when regarded as a figure, is contained in unequal sides;—all these we compared to ob... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "The lines, or sides, which have for their squares the equilateral plane numbers, were called by us lengths or magnitudes; and the lines which are the roots of (or whose squares are equal to) the oblong numbers, were called powers or roots; the reason of this latter name being, t... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "But I am unable, Socrates, to give you a similar answer about knowledge, which is what you appear to want; and therefore Theodorus is a deceiver after all."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Well, but if some one were to praise you for running, and to say that he never m... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Certainly not."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And is the discovery of the nature of knowledge so small a matter, as just now said? Is it not one which would task the powers of men perfect in every way?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "By heaven, they should be the top of all perfection!"
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Well, then, be of good cheer; do not say that Theodorus was mistaken about you, but do your best to ascertain the true nature of knowledge, as well as of other things."
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I am eager enough, Socrates, if that would bring to light the truth."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Come, you made a good beginning just now; let your own answer about roots be your model, and as you comprehended them all in one class, try and bring the many sorts of... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I can assure you, Socrates, that I have tried very often, when the report of questions asked by you was brought to me; but I can neither persuade myself that I have a satisfactory answer to give, nor hear of any one who answers as you would have him; and I cannot shake off a fee... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I do not know, Socrates; I only say what I feel."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And have you never heard, simpleton, that I am the son of a midwife, brave and burly, whose name was Phaenarete?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes, I have."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And that I myself practise midwifery?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "No, never."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Let me tell you that I do though, my friend: but you must not reveal the secret, as the world in general have not found me out; and therefore they only say of me, that I am the strangest of mortals and drive men to their wits... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Shall I tell you the reason?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "By all means."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Bear in mind the whole business of the midwives, and then you"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes, I know."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "The reason of this is said to be that Artemis—the goddess of childbirth—is not a mother, and she honours those who are like herself; but she could not allow the barren to be midwives, because human nature cannot know the my... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I dare say."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And I dare say too, or rather I am absolutely certain, that the midwives know better than others who is pregnant and who is not?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Very true."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And by the use of potions and incantations they are able to arouse the pangs and to soothe them at will; they can make those bear who have a difficulty in bearing, and if they think fit they can smother the embryo in the womb... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "They can."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Did you ever remark that they are also most cunning matchmakers, and have a thorough knowledge of what unions are likely to produce a brave brood?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "No, never."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Then let me tell you that this is their greatest pride, more than cutting the umbilical cord. And if you reflect, you will see that the same art which cultivates and gathers in the fruits of the earth, will be most likely to ... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes, the same art."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And do you suppose that with women the case is otherwise?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I should think not."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Certainly not; but midwives are respectable women who have a character to lose, and they avoid this department of their profession, because they are afraid of being called procuresses, which is a name given to those ... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Clearly."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Such are the midwives, whose task is a very important one, but not so important as mine; for women do not bring into the world at one time real children, and at another time counterfeits which are with difficulty distinguished ... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Indeed I should."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Well, my art of midwifery is in most respects like theirs; but differs, in that I attend men and not women; and look after their souls"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "At any rate, Socrates, after such an exhortation I should be ashamed of not trying to do my best. Now he who knows perceives what he knows, and, as far as I can see at present, knowledge is perception."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Bravely said, boy; that is the way... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Well, you have delivered yourself of a very important doctrine about knowledge; it is indeed the opinion of Protagoras, who has another way of expressing it. Man, he says, is the measure of all things, of the existence of things th... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "O yes, again and again."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Does he not say that things are to you such as they appear to you, and to me such as they appear to me, and that you and I are men?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes, he says so."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "A wise man is not likely to talk nonsense. Let us try to"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Quite true."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Now is the wind, regarded not in relation to us but absolutely, cold or not; or are we to say, with Protagoras, that the wind is cold to him who is cold, and not to him who is not?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I suppose the last."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Then it must appear so to each of them?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And 'appears to him' means the same as 'he perceives.'"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "True."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Then appearing and perceiving coincide in the case of hot and cold, and in similar instances; for things appear, or may be supposed to be, to each one such as he perceives them?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Then perception is always of existence, and being the same as knowledge is unerring?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Clearly."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "In the name of the Graces, what an almighty wise man Protagoras must have been! He spoke these things in a parable to the common herd, like you and me, but told the truth, 'his Truth,' (In allusion to a book of Protagoras' whic... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "What do you mean, Socrates?"
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "I am about to speak of a high argument, in which all things are said to be relative; you cannot rightly call anything by any name, such as great or small, heavy or light, for the great will be small and the h... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I think so."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And who could take up arms against such a great army having Homer for its general, and not appear ridiculous? (Compare Cratylus.)"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Who indeed, Socrates?"
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Yes, Theaetetus; and there are plenty of other proofs which will show that motion is the source of what is called being and becoming, and inactivity of not-being and destruction; for fire and warmth, which are supp... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "It is."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And the race of animals is generated in the same way?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Certainly."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And is not the bodily habit spoiled by rest and idleness, but preserved for a long time by motion and exercise?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "True."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And what of the mental habit? Is not the soul informed, and improved, and preserved by study and attention, which are motions; but when at rest, which in the soul only means want of attention and study, is uninformed, and speedily... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "True."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Then motion is a good, and rest an evil, to the soul as well as to the body?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Clearly."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "I may add, that breathless calm, stillness and the like waste and impair, while wind and storm preserve; and the palmary argument of all, which I strongly urge, is the golden chain in Homer, by which he means the sun, thereby i... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I believe, Socrates, that you have truly explained his meaning."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Then now apply his doctrine to perception, my good friend, and first of all to vision; that which you call white colour is not in your eyes, and is not a distinct thing whi... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Then what is colour?"
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Let us carry the principle which has just been affirmed, that nothing is self-existent, and then we shall see that white, black, and every other colour, arises out of the eye meeting the appropriate motion, and that... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Far from it."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Or that anything appears the same to you as to another man? Are you so profoundly convinced of this? Rather would it not be true that it never appears exactly the same to you, because you are never exactly the same?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "The latter."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And if that with which I compare myself in size, or which I apprehend by touch, were great or white or hot, it could not become different by mere contact with another unless it actually changed; nor again, if the comparing o... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "How? and of what sort do you mean?"
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "A little instance will sufficiently explain my meaning: Here are six dice, which are more by a half when compared with four, and fewer by a half than twelve—they are more and also fewer. How can you or... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Very true."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Well, then, suppose that Protagoras or some one asks whether anything can become greater or more if not by increasing, how would you answer him, Theaetetus?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I should say 'No,' Socrates, if I were to speak my mind in reference to this last question, and if I were not afraid of contradicting my former answer."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Capital! excellent! spoken like an oracle, my boy! And if you reply 'Yes,' there wil... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Very true."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "The thoroughbred Sophists, who know all that can be known about the mind, and argue only out of the superfluity of their wits, would have had a regular sparring-match over this, and would have knocked their arguments together... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes, that would be my desire."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "And mine too. But since this is our feeling, and there is plenty of time, why should we not calmly and patiently review our own thoughts, and thoroughly examine and see what these appearances in us really a... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Secondly, that without addition or subtraction there is no increase or diminution of anything, but only equality."
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Quite true."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Thirdly, that what was not before cannot be afterwards, without becoming and having become."
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes, truly."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "These three axioms, if I am not mistaken, are fighting with one another in our minds in the case of the dice, or, again, in such a case as this—if I were to say that I, who am of a certain height and taller than you, may wit... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes, Socrates, and I am amazed when I think of them; by the Gods I am! and I want to know what on earth they mean; and there are times when my head quite swims with the contemplation of them."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "I see, my dear Theaetetus, that Theodorus ha... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Not as yet."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Then you will be obliged to me if I help you to unearth the hidden 'truth' of a famous man or school."
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "To be sure, I shall be very much obliged."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Take a look round, then, and see that none of the uninitiated are listening. Now by the uninitiated I mean the people who believe in nothing but what they can grasp in their hands, and who will ... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Yes, indeed, Socrates, they are very hard and impenetrable mortals."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Yes, my boy, outer barbarians. Far more ingenious are the brethren whose mysteries I am about to reveal to you. Their first principle is, that all is motion, and upon t... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Indeed I do not."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Then attend, and I will try to finish the story. The purport is that all these things are in motion, as I was saying, and that this motion is of two kinds, a slower and a quicker; and the slower elements have their moti... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I do not know what to say, Socrates; for, indeed, I cannot make out whether you are giving your own opinion or only wanting to draw me out."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "You forget, my friend, that I neither know, nor profess to know, anything of these matters; you ... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Ask me."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Then once more: Is it your opinion that nothing is but what becomes?—the good and the noble, as well as all the other things which we were just now mentioning?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "When I hear you discoursing in this style, I think that there is a great deal in what you say, and I am very ready to assent."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "Let us not leave the argument unfinished, then; for there still remains to be considered an objection which ma... |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "Very true, Socrates."
},
{
"from": "gpt",
"value": "But then, my boy, how can any one contend that knowledge is perception, or that to every man what appears is?"
}
] |
[
{
"from": "human",
"value": "I am afraid to say, Socrates, that I have nothing to answer, because you rebuked me just now for making this excuse; but I certainly cannot undertake to argue that madmen or dreamers think truly, when they imagine, some of them that they are gods, and others that they can fly, a... |
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