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help-10
106fcab46dc5465cb1c9c374ad27e572
828,122,705,659,560,000
SDR
04/10/2022 01:34:59
what is arthmaetic
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106fcab46dc5465cb1c9c374ad27e572
711,790,477,271,105,700
Poppiter Hellriver
04/10/2022 01:36:50
Emm
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help-10
106fcab46dc5465cb1c9c374ad27e572
711,790,477,271,105,700
Poppiter Hellriver
04/10/2022 01:36:54
Basically
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help-10
106fcab46dc5465cb1c9c374ad27e572
711,790,477,271,105,700
Poppiter Hellriver
04/10/2022 01:36:57
Calculation
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help-10
106fcab46dc5465cb1c9c374ad27e572
828,122,705,659,560,000
SDR
04/10/2022 01:37:13
ok
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106fcab46dc5465cb1c9c374ad27e572
929,612,596,817,068,000
_Anonymous
04/10/2022 01:51:21
...
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106fcab46dc5465cb1c9c374ad27e572
485,903,210,272,391,200
dldh06
04/10/2022 01:53:34
You should probably learn the other material that leads up to quadratics
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Poppiter Hellriver
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99muppets
04/10/2022 02:16:47
https://cdn.discordapp.c…7428/unknown.png
unknown.png
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 02:16:51
idk how to do dis
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 02:22:08
https://cdn.discordapp.c…904/IMG_0444.png
IMG_0444.png
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99muppets
04/10/2022 02:37:30
@heloers
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99muppets
04/10/2022 02:37:33
@Helpers
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:04:23
Consider the function f(x)-x
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help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:04:48
Why?
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help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:05:56
We can show via intermediate value theorem that this function definitely achieves value of 0 for some x in [0,1]
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help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:07:02
I don't really understand or see how
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help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:07:10
Is this correct?/
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help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:07:14
like the definition of invt
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help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:08:47
How did you conclude f(0)≠f(1) ?
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help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:11:25
Suppose there is no c in [0,1] such that f(c)=c. That means f(0)-0>0 and f(1)-1<0. Precisely our function f(x)-x evaluated at 0 and 1
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:12:29
isnt that the definitiion
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:12:49
Why does that mean that?
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:12:55
I dont really understand
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a disappointing son
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:13:38
https://cdn.discordapp.c…923712/asdf1.PNG
asdf1.PNG
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SDR
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:13:42
Not necessarily. Consider the function f(x)=0 for all x in [0,1] it satisfies all the conditions in the question
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:14:27
huh
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:14:41
that doesnt make sense then does it
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:14:52
if f(x) = 0
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help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:15:06
Nowhere in the question does it say f(0)≠f(1)
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help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:15:09
then f(a) and f(b) bound nothing
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help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:15:35
Is it not implied by the actual definition of IVT that im using?
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:15:52
But it is a valid continuous function from [0,1] to [0,1]
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help-10
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:16:10
That doesnt mean that f(c) = k
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:16:19
i don't think we're on the same page im quite confused now
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:17:09
IVT does require f(a)≠f(b) sure. But not necessarily the question
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:17:21
https://cdn.discordapp.c…8532/unknown.png
unknown.png
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:17:26
reposting q for referencing
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:17:45
from the intermediate value theorem
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:18:13
we have to show that f(a) < k < f(b) or f(b) < k < f(a) right
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:18:24
We are applying IVT on the function f(x)-x as i said earlier
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:18:31
Why?
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:19:08
Ok then tell me how does that show f(c)=c for some c in [0,1]
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:19:42
thats my point idk lol
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:20:13
it's not some specific constant value analogous to "k" in the IVT
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Euclid31415
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:21:28
But if we do show there is some "c" in [0,1] such that f(x)-x achieves 0 there it is equivalent to saying f(c)=c
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:23:13
hmm maybe im starting to get it
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:23:22
so youre proiving that f(c) - c = 0 essentially
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99muppets
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:23:31
which is equivilant to f(c) = c?
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Euclid31415
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help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:23:49
In our question, we need to show f(c)=c for some c in [0,1]. IVT directly on the function f doesn't work
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help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:23:57
ywyw
1
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
04/10/2022 03:24:06
yeye**
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99muppets
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:24:10
Yep
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:24:55
hmm okay i am kinda understanding the goal ate last now
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:27:00
And now, we start with this
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99muppets
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:27:34
proof by contradiction?
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:27:59
Well, you could also do direct proof
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:28:06
maybe id like to try direct proof
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99muppets
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:28:15
im not completely sure where the inequalities are from im sorry
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:29:52
They are easy to see actually. Codomain of our function f is [0,1]. Which means f(0)≥0 implying f(0)-0≥0 but if f(0)=0 we already have a contradiction. Thus we assume f(0)-0>0. And similarly for f(1)-1<0
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:30:46
Why does f(0) >= 0 true?
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:31:00
oh wait
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:31:02
sorry
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:31:19
1≥f(x)≥0 for all x in [0,1]
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:31:23
ye i get that
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:31:25
hmm
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:31:41
I don;t really understand
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:31:44
Try this
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1
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:31:52
is this the direct proof>
1
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:31:53
?
1
0
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:32:18
No. It was my attempt to explain the proof by contradiction earlier. Direct proof is also similar to this actually.
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:34:17
Ignore all that lets start the proof from scratch
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
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99muppets
04/10/2022 03:34:32
Thank you for your patience btw 🙂
1
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8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:34:54
First of all, f(0)≥0
0
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help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
04/10/2022 03:36:41
Yepp
1
0
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
2149
99muppets
false
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
04/10/2022 03:36:57
Is it also neccesary to say that 1 >= f(0) <= 0
1
0
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:37:20
Well ofcourse that's where f(0)≥0 comes from
0
1
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null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
04/10/2022 03:37:28
okiee
1
0
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:37:47
Well, 1>=f(0)>=0
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:38:49
Anyways, if we do have f(0)=0, we already have our required c
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
04/10/2022 03:39:02
Ye sure
1
0
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:39:08
So we assume f(0)>0 which is same as saying f(0)-0>0
0
1
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
2149
99muppets
false
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
04/10/2022 03:39:54
sure
1
0
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:40:13
And we do something similar for f(1)≤1
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:40:33
If we have f(1)=1 we have c=1
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:40:40
So, f(1)<1
0
1
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
2149
99muppets
false
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:41:05
And ofcourse this also comes from 0≤f(1)≤1
0
1
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null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
04/10/2022 03:41:24
okie dokie i get that
1
0
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:41:52
And that's equivalent to saying f(1)-1<0
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
04/10/2022 03:42:36
yee
1
0
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
2149
99muppets
false
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:43:02
Now, we consider the function f(x)-x on domain [0,1]
0
1
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
9927
Euclid31415
false
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
04/10/2022 03:43:59
ye]
1
0
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:44:08
Now we actually have f(1)-1<0<f(0)-0 combining the two inequalities from earlier
0
1
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
2149
99muppets
false
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:45:10
Which means we also have f(1)-1≠f(0)-0
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:46:14
All the required conditions for IVT are satisfied for our function f(x)-x on [0,1]
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:49:19
f(x)-x is a continuous function on [0,1] where f(0)-0>0 and f(1)-1<0. It means there exists some c in (0,1) such that f(c)-c=0
0
1
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null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:52:20
@99muppets
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
04/10/2022 03:54:30
sorry just trying to read it over
1
0
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
04/10/2022 03:55:16
i think i kinda get it
1
0
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:55:40
If you are uncomfortable, you can call our new function g(x). g(x)=f(x)-x
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
1,799
help-10
8b8e0a45d651480d9aad0bb2f5b799b3
691,679,326,164,222,100
Euclid31415
04/10/2022 03:56:23
g(0)>0>g(1)
0
1
246,174,820,088,152,060
99muppets
2149
99muppets
false