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We're talking with Richard Ellis, author of 'Tuna: A Love Story.' We're going to have a take a short break. We'll come back and talk. I'll ask more with Richard and also talk about an attempt to track the tuna around the oceans and maybe find a way to save them from extinction that way. With our taste for sushi it's...	we're talking with richard ellis author of 'tuna: a love story' we're going to have a take a short break we'll; come back and talk i'll ask, more with richard and also talk about an attempt to track the tuna around the oceans and maybe find a way to save them from extinction that way with our taste. for sushi it's g...	We're talking with Richard Ellis author of 'Tuna: A, Love Story' We're going to have a take a short break. We'll come back and talk I'll ask more with Richard and also talk about an attempt to track the tuna around the oceans and maybe find a way to save them from extinction. that, way With our taste for sushi it's ...	we're talking with richard ellis, author of 'tuna: a love story.' we're going to have a take a short break. we'll come back and talk. i'll ask more with richard and also talk about an attempt to track the tuna around the oceans and maybe find a way to save them from extinction that way. with our taste for sushi it's...
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You're listening to Talk of the Nation Science Friday. I'm Ira Flatow. We're talking about bluefin tuna. This is the fish, I think, most people have seen in the either a sushi or a sashimi in their local sushi bar. I'm talking with Richard Ellis, author of "Tuna: A Love Story." And our next guest has seen these ma...	you're listening to talk of, the nation science friday i'm ira flatow we're talking about bluefin tuna this is the fish i think most people have seen in the either a sushi or a sashimi in their local sushi bar. i'm talking with richard ellis author of "tuna: a love story" and our next guest has seen these; massive...	You're listening to; Talk of the Nation Science Friday I'm Ira Flatow We're, talking about bluefin tuna This is the fish I think most people have seen, in. the either, a sushi. or a sashimi. in their local sushi bar I'm talking with Richard Ellis. author of "Tuna: A Love Story" And our next guest has; seen these, ...	you're listening to talk of the nation science friday. i'm ira flatow. we're talking about bluefin tuna. this is the fish, i think, most people have seen in the either a sushi or a sashimi in their local sushi bar. i'm talking with richard ellis, author of "tuna: a love story." and our next guest has seen these ma...
Hello. Glad to be here.	hello glad to be	Hello Glad, to be	hello. glad to be here.
How is tagging going help up conserve tuna?	how is tagging going help up conserve,	How is tagging going help up conserve	how is tagging going help up conserve tuna?
Well, our team has actually put over 2,000 tags in tunas in several oceans and the tags help us find out where tunas go when they're beneath the sea. So, for all of mankind or for all of time, we haven't been able to actually track tunas beneath the sea very well.	well our team has actually put over, 2,000 tags in tunas in. several oceans and the tags help us. find out where tunas go when they're beneath the sea so for, all of mankind or, for all of time we haven't been able to actually track tunas beneath the sea very	Well our team has actually put over 2,000 tags in tunas in several oceans and the tags help us find out where tunas go when they're beneath the sea So for all of mankind or for all of time we haven't been able to actually track tunas beneath. the. sea very	well, our team has actually put over 2,000 tags in tunas in several oceans and the tags help us find out where tunas go when they're beneath the sea. so, for all of mankind or for all of time, we haven't been able to actually track tunas beneath the sea very well.
We don't know where they come and go?	we don't know where they come and	We don't know where they come and	we don't know where they come and go?
Well, we did until recently and so what we've been doing is we have two types of archival or data or log or tags that are similar to taking, if you will, an IBM laptop, throwing it inside your local tuna and then letting them go again. So these tunas have been carrying around these tags and they're actually running a ...	well we did until recently and so what we've been; doing is we have two types of archival or data or log or tags, that are similar to taking if you will. an ibm laptop throwing it inside your local tuna and then letting them go again so these tunas have been carrying around these tags and, they're actually running, a ...	Well we did until recently and so what we've been doing is we have two types of archival or data or. log, or tags that are similar to taking if you will an IBM laptop throwing it inside your local tuna and then letting them go again So these tunas have been carrying around these tags and they're. actually running a. 1...	well, we did until recently and so what we've been doing is we have two types of archival or data or log or tags that are similar to taking, if you will, an ibm laptop, throwing it inside your local tuna and then letting them go again. so these tunas have been carrying around these tags and they're actually running a ...
How do you tag a tuna?	how do you tag a.	How do you tag a	how do you tag a tuna?
Well, what we do is we go out to places like the coast of North Carolina, down there at Morehead City. We're about to go up to Canada, and we work with fishers that are the best at finding out where the tunas are. But tuna, actually is caught on hook and line with a hook that's a special type of hook called a circle ...	well what, we do is we go out to places. like the coast of, north carolina down there at morehead city we're about to go up to canada and, we work with. fishers that are the best at finding out where the tunas are but tuna. actually is caught on hook and line, with a hook that's a special type of hook called a, circl...	Well what we do is we go out to places like the. coast of North Carolina down there at Morehead City, We're about to go up to Canada and we. work with fishers that are the best at finding out where the tunas are But tuna actually is caught, on hook and line, with a hook that's a. special type of hook called a. circle...	well, what we do is we go out to places like the coast of north carolina, down there at morehead city. we're about to go up to canada, and we work with fishers that are the best at finding out where the tunas are. but tuna, actually is caught on hook and line with a hook that's a special type of hook called a circle ...
Richard Ellis, have you ever seen a tagged tuna?	richard ellis have you ever seen, a tagged,	Richard; Ellis; have you ever seen a tagged	richard ellis, have you ever seen a tagged tuna?
Sure. First of all, let me say hello to Barbara. I think what she has done and is doing is one of the most important biological experiments being done because it is giving us knowledge that we never had before, that we never could have before, and the ability to tag and follow tuna, and understand where they go. We ...	sure first of all let me say hello to barbara i think what she has done and is doing is. one of the most important. biological experiments being done because it is giving us knowledge; that we never had before that we never, could have before and the ability, to tag and follow tuna and understand where they go we al...	Sure First of all let me say hello to Barbara I think what she has done and is. doing is one of the. most important biological experiments being done because, it is giving us knowledge. that we never had before that we never could have before and the ability to tag and follow tuna. and; understand, where they go We ...	sure. first of all, let me say hello to barbara. i think what she has done and is doing is one of the most important biological experiments being done because it is giving us knowledge that we never had before, that we never could have before, and the ability to tag and follow tuna, and understand where they go. we ...
I think it's great. You're there and I'm glad you're on the show and thanks for welcoming me. It turns out they can dive to deeper than that depth - (unintelligible) is actually they've hit our limits of 2,000 meters or 6,000 feet and it's a remarkable story. And I've been at a conference this week. Of all the biolo...	i think it's. great you're there and i'm glad you're on the show, and thanks for welcoming me it turns out they can dive to deeper than that depth - (unintelligible) is. actually they've hit our limits of 2,000 meters or 6,000 feet and it's a remarkable story and i've been at a conference this week of all the biolog...	I think it's great You're there and I'm glad you're on the show and thanks for welcoming me It turns out they, can dive to deeper than that, depth - (unintelligible) is actually they've hit our limits of 2,000 meters or 6,000 feet and it's a remarkable, story And I've, been at a conference this week Of all the biolo...	i think it's great. you're there and i'm glad you're on the show and thanks for welcoming me. it turns out they can dive to deeper than that depth - (unintelligible) is actually they've hit our limits of 2,000 meters or 6,000 feet and it's a remarkable story. and i've been at a conference this week. of all the biolo...
Does the tuna have to surface so that it hits the satellite?	does the tuna have. to surface so. that it hits the	Does the, tuna have to surface so that it hits the	does the tuna have to surface so that it hits the satellite?
Well, on the tunas, we're using two types of tags. So one tag is a recorder, or a data-logger. And it's actually just taking data, archiving it...	well on the tunas we're using two types of. tags, so one tag is a recorder or a data-logger and it's actually just taking data archiving	Well on the tunas we're using two types of tags So one; tag is a recorder or a data-logger And it's actually just; taking data archiving,	well, on the tunas, we're using two types of tags. so one tag is a recorder, or a data-logger. and it's actually just taking data, archiving it...
I see...	i,	I	i see...
And we don't get it back until a fisherman catches that same tuna a second time.	and. we don't get it back until a fisherman catches that same tuna a second	And we don't get it back until a fisherman, catches that same tuna a, second	and we don't get it back until a fisherman catches that same tuna a second time.
Does he get a bounty for catching that tuna?	does he get a bounty for catching that	Does he get a bounty for. catching that	does he get a bounty for catching that tuna?
They get a reward for catching the tuna and returning the tag. So we have lots of tags coming back to us in the Atlantic, probably at this point 30 nations have returned 20 percent of the tags we put in the ocean of the Archival type, in the Pacific a whopping 50 percent of the tunas we tag have had their archival tag...	they get a reward for catching the tuna and returning the tag so we; have. lots of tags coming back to us in the atlantic probably at this point 30 nations have returned 20 percent of. the tags we put in the ocean of the archival, type in the pacific a whopping 50 percent of the tunas we tag; have had their archival t...	They get a reward for catching, the tuna and returning the tag So we, have lots, of, tags coming back to us in the Atlantic probably at this, point 30 nations have returned 20 percent of the tags we put in the, ocean of the Archival type in the Pacific a whopping 50 percent of the tunas we tag have had their archival ...	they get a reward for catching the tuna and returning the tag. so we have lots of tags coming back to us in the atlantic, probably at this point 30 nations have returned 20 percent of the tags we put in the ocean of the archival type, in the pacific a whopping 50 percent of the tunas we tag have had their archival tag...
And what did you give - what, 500 dollars, something like?	and what did you give - what 500 dollars something	And what did you give - what 500 dollars something	and what did you give - what, 500 dollars, something like?
We give them back 500 dollars in the Pacific and actually a thousand dollars in Atlantic because they are rarer to find. The second type of tag we uses is as pop-up satellite tag, and it combines the brains, if you will, the controller of the archival tag that - it's put out on the outside of the fish. And on a given...	we give. them back 500 dollars in the pacific and, actually a thousand dollars in atlantic. because they are rarer to find the, second type of tag we uses is as pop-up satellite tag and it combines the, brains if you will the controller of the archival tag that - it's put out on the outside of the fish and on a given...	We give them back 500 dollars, in the Pacific and actually a thousand dollars in Atlantic because, they are rarer to find The second type of tag we uses is as pop-up satellite tag and; it combines. the brains if you will the controller of the archival. tag that - it's put out on. the outside of the fish And on a give...	we give them back 500 dollars in the pacific and actually a thousand dollars in atlantic because they are rarer to find. the second type of tag we uses is as pop-up satellite tag, and it combines the brains, if you will, the controller of the archival tag that - it's put out on the outside of the fish. and on a given...
Dr. BLOCK. No. Actually, they're sort of incompressible because they too are sort of a fluid, and without having lungs it isn't as much of a problem.	dr block no actually they're sort of incompressible because they too are sort of a fluid and without having lungs it isn't as much of a	Dr BLOCK No Actually they're sort of incompressible because they too are sort of a fluid and without having lungs it isn't as, much of a	dr. block. no. actually, they're sort of incompressible because they too are sort of a fluid, and without having lungs it isn't as much of a problem.
Wow.			wow.
So some of the big picture questions for blue fin is that their warm body, as Richard said, they get to be as warm as about 85 to 88 degrees inside. They actually have hearts that are exposed to the cold water, so the real conundrum of tuna biology, if you will, when we're trying to figure out how they work is that th...	so some of the big picture questions for blue fin, is that their warm body as richard said they get to be as warm as about 85 to 88 degrees inside they actually have hearts that are exposed, to. the cold water so the, real conundrum of; tuna biology if you will when we're trying to figure out how they work, is that th...	So some of the big picture questions for blue fin is. that their warm body as Richard said they get to. be as warm as about 85 to 88 degrees inside They actually have hearts that are exposed to the cold water, so the real conundrum of tuna biology if you will when we're trying to figure, out how they work is that thei...	so some of the big picture questions for blue fin is that their warm body, as richard said, they get to be as warm as about 85 to 88 degrees inside. they actually have hearts that are exposed to the cold water, so the real conundrum of tuna biology, if you will, when we're trying to figure out how they work is that th...
Let's go to Jonah in Queen's, New York. Hi, Jonah.	let's go to jonah in queen's new york hi	Let's go to Jonah in Queen's, New York Hi	let's go to jonah in queen's, new york. hi, jonah.
Hi. Thanks for having me. Two-part question. How did tuna originally get to have the appeal that it does? And is it they're only expensive now because it's rare?	hi thanks for having me, two-part question how did tuna originally get to have the; appeal that it does? and is it they're only expensive now because it's	Hi Thanks. for having, me Two-part question How did tuna originally get to have the appeal that it does? And is it they're only expensive now because it's	hi. thanks for having me. two-part question. how did tuna originally get to have the appeal that it does? and is it they're only expensive now because it's rare?
Hmm. When did sushi first start? Has it been in the Japanese diet forever?	hmm when did sushi, first start? has, it been in. the japanese diet	Hmm When, did sushi first start? Has it been in the Japanese diet	hmm. when did sushi first start? has it been in the japanese diet forever?
Well, you would think so. But in fact, it's a relatively recent innovation. Because up until the Second World War there were no such things as home freezers or even much in the way of refrigerators in Japan. It was only after the war when refrigerators and freezers were introduced that the Japanese could freeze fish...	well you would think so but in fact; it's a. relatively recent. innovation because up until the second world war; there were no. such. things as home freezers or even; much in the. way of refrigerators in japan, it was only after the war when refrigerators and freezers were. introduced that the japanese could freeze...	Well you would think so But in, fact it's a relatively recent innovation Because up until the Second World War there were no such things as home freezers or even much. in. the. way of, refrigerators in Japan It, was only after the war when refrigerators, and freezers were introduced that the Japanese. could freeze f...	well, you would think so. but in fact, it's a relatively recent innovation. because up until the second world war there were no such things as home freezers or even much in the way of refrigerators in japan. it was only after the war when refrigerators and freezers were introduced that the japanese could freeze fish...
Now we can say that we're sushi and sashimi on the air here and everybody says, oh, yeah, I'd love that, my favorite Japanese restaurant is. But 40 years ago, even 30 years ago, most Americans - for most Americans the idea of eating a piece of raw fish was nigh on to disgusting, nobody wanted to eat raw fish. The Jap...	now we can say that. we're sushi and sashimi on the air here and. everybody says oh yeah i'd love; that my favorite japanese restaurant is but 40 years ago even 30 years ago most americans - for most, americans, the idea of eating a piece of raw fish was nigh on to disgusting nobody wanted to eat raw fish the japanes...	Now we, can say that we're sushi and sashimi; on. the air here and everybody says oh yeah; I'd love, that my favorite Japanese restaurant is But, 40 years ago even 30 years ago most Americans - for most Americans the idea of, eating a piece of raw, fish was nigh on to disgusting nobody wanted to eat raw fish The Japa...	now we can say that we're sushi and sashimi on the air here and everybody says, oh, yeah, i'd love that, my favorite japanese restaurant is. but 40 years ago, even 30 years ago, most americans - for most americans the idea of eating a piece of raw fish was nigh on to disgusting, nobody wanted to eat raw fish. the jap...
And Barbara, what other kinds of research do you want to learn? I mean, you learned how deep this tuna can dive, what other things do you hope to learn from tagging this fish?	and barbara what other kinds of research do. you want. to, learn? i mean you learned how deep this tuna can dive what other things do you hope to. learn from tagging this	And Barbara what other kinds of research do you want to learn? I mean you learned how deep this tuna can dive what other things do you hope to learn from tagging this,	and barbara, what other kinds of research do you want to learn? i mean, you learned how deep this tuna can dive, what other things do you hope to learn from tagging this fish?
Well, yeah, here at Stanford and with the Monterey Bay Aquarium we have sort of two programs. One is that we actually keep tunas. I heard the discussion about clean seas where I have visited this year too. We actually have a land-based facility that's been operational since 1994, and we actually are learning about t...	well yeah here at stanford and with the monterey bay aquarium we have sort of two programs one is. that we actually keep tunas i heard the, discussion about clean seas where i have visited, this year too we actually have a land-based facility that's been operational. since 1994, and we actually are learning about th...	Well yeah, here at Stanford, and with the Monterey Bay Aquarium we have sort of two programs One is that we actually keep tunas I heard the discussion about. clean seas where I have visited this year too We actually have a land-based; facility that's been operational since 1994, and we actually are, learning about t...	well, yeah, here at stanford and with the monterey bay aquarium we have sort of two programs. one is that we actually keep tunas. i heard the discussion about clean seas where i have visited this year too. we actually have a land-based facility that's been operational since 1994, and we actually are learning about t...
It's so bad you can't train a tuna. Because then you could put it in, you know, with one of these aquariums where they - they can't train a tuna.	it's so bad you can't train a tuna; because then, you could put it in you know with one of these aquariums, where they - they can't train a	It's so bad you can't train a tuna Because then you could put it in you know with one of these aquariums where they - they can't train a	it's so bad you can't train a tuna. because then you could put it in, you know, with one of these aquariums where they - they can't train a tuna.
Well, you can...	well you	Well you	well, you can...
Why would you eat something that's, you know, doing all kinds of flips and swirls and things like that...	why would, you eat something that's you know doing all kinds of flips and swirls and things like	Why would you eat something that's you know doing all kinds, of flips and swirls. and things, like	why would you eat something that's, you know, doing all kinds of flips and swirls and things like that...
Oh, people do that all the time. And there are people who watch horses and cows and things jumping around. But, one of the interesting things is while you don't necessarily train them very well, at the Monterey Bay Aquarium there's what's called the outer bay tank which is this giant tank, this million-gallon tank. ...	oh people do that all the time and there. are people who watch horses and cows and things jumping around but one of the interesting things is while you. don't necessarily train them. very well at the. monterey, bay, aquarium there's what's called the outer bay tank which is this giant, tank this million-gallon tank ...	Oh people do that all the time, And there are people who. watch horses. and cows and things jumping around But one of the interesting things is while you don't necessarily train them very well at the Monterey Bay Aquarium. there's what's called. the outer bay tank which, is this giant tank this million-gallon tank I...	oh, people do that all the time. and there are people who watch horses and cows and things jumping around. but, one of the interesting things is while you don't necessarily train them very well, at the monterey bay aquarium there's what's called the outer bay tank which is this giant tank, this million-gallon tank. ...
Yeah, yeah.	yeah	Yeah	yeah, yeah.
But that doesn't always works for sharks but it certainly always works for tuna. If you trap a tuna in a net and it can't keep swimming, it will drown. But I will watch them - and Barbara has a much better opportunity when she's not at sea because she's a lot closer to the Monterey Bay Aquarium than I am - although I...	but that doesn't always works for sharks but. it certainly. always works for tuna. if you trap. a tuna in a net and it can't keep, swimming it will drown but i will watch them, - and barbara has a much better opportunity when she's not at sea because she's a lot, closer to the monterey bay aquarium. than i am - altho...	But that doesn't always works for sharks. but it certainly always works for tuna If you trap a tuna in a net and, it can't keep swimming it will drown But I will watch them - and Barbara has a much better opportunity when she's not at sea. because she's a lot closer to the, Monterey Bay Aquarium than I am - although ...	but that doesn't always works for sharks but it certainly always works for tuna. if you trap a tuna in a net and it can't keep swimming, it will drown. but i will watch them - and barbara has a much better opportunity when she's not at sea because she's a lot closer to the monterey bay aquarium than i am - although i...
Barbara, are you as passionate about doing it as Richard is?	barbara. are you as passionate about, doing it as richard	Barbara are you as passionate about doing it as Richard	barbara, are you as passionate about doing it as richard is?
Well, I'm sure. I think that we'd be in the same ball park so - Stanford and Monterey Bay Aquarium working together has brought this view of blue fin as well as the white shark that we can see today at the Monterey Bay Aquarium, and there's life at the open sea. And now millions of people can come by and see the beau...	well i'm sure i think that we'd be, in the same ball park so - stanford and, monterey bay aquarium working together has brought this view of, blue fin as well as the white shark that we can see, today at the monterey bay aquarium and there's. life at the open sea, and. now, millions of. people can come by and see the...	Well, I'm sure I think that we'd be in, the same ball park so - Stanford and Monterey Bay Aquarium working together has brought this view of blue fin as well as the white shark that we can see today at the Monterey Bay Aquarium and there's life at the open sea And now millions of people can come by and see the beauty...	well, i'm sure. i think that we'd be in the same ball park so - stanford and monterey bay aquarium working together has brought this view of blue fin as well as the white shark that we can see today at the monterey bay aquarium, and there's life at the open sea. and now millions of people can come by and see the beau...
Talking about tuna this hour on Talk of the Nation: Science Friday from NPR News. I am Ira Flatow talking with Richard Ellis, author of "Tuna: A Love Story" and also with Barbara Block. I will see if we can get a phone call or two in here. Let's go to Amy in Chandler, Arizona.	talking about tuna this hour on talk of the nation: science friday from npr news i am ira flatow. talking with richard ellis author of "tuna: a love story" and also with barbara block i will see if we can get a phone call or two in here let's go to amy, in chandler	Talking about tuna this hour on Talk of the Nation: Science Friday from NPR News I am, Ira Flatow talking with Richard Ellis author of "Tuna: A Love Story" and also with Barbara Block I, will see if; we can get a phone call or two in here Let's go to Amy in Chandler	talking about tuna this hour on talk of the nation: science friday from npr news. i am ira flatow talking with richard ellis, author of "tuna: a love story" and also with barbara block. i will see if we can get a phone call or two in here. let's go to amy in chandler, arizona.