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From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Michele Norris.	from npr news this is. all things considered i'm michele	From NPR News this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED I'm Michele	from npr news, this is all things considered. i'm michele norris.
And I'm Melissa Block.	and i'm melissa	And I'm Melissa	and i'm melissa block.
It's been eight years since reporters first uncovered a deadly environmental and health disaster in Libby, Montana. More than 200 people in the town have died from asbestos-related disease. The asbestos in Libby came from a vermiculite mine owned by W.R. Grace and Co. Now, Grace has agreed to a record settlement to pay...	it's been eight, years since reporters first uncovered, a deadly environmental and health disaster in libby montana more than 200 people in the town have died from asbestos-related disease the asbestos in libby came from a vermiculite mine owned; by, w.r, grace and co now, grace has agreed to a record settlement to pay...	It's been eight. years since reporters. first uncovered a deadly environmental and health disaster in Libby Montana. More than 200 people, in, the town have died from asbestos-related, disease The. asbestos in Libby came from a vermiculite mine owned by W.R Grace, and Co Now Grace has agreed to a record settlement to p...	it's been eight years since reporters first uncovered a deadly environmental and health disaster in libby, montana. more than 200 people in the town have died from asbestos-related disease. the asbestos in libby came from a vermiculite mine owned by w.r. grace and co. now, grace has agreed to a record settlement to pay...
Andrew Schneider was the reporter who first broke the story in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. Thanks for being with us.	andrew schneider was the reporter who first broke. the story in the seattle post-intelligencer thanks for being with	Andrew Schneider. was the reporter who first broke the story, in. the Seattle Post-Intelligencer Thanks for being with	andrew schneider was the reporter who first broke the story in the seattle post-intelligencer. thanks for being with us.
Thanks for having me back.	thanks for having me	Thanks for having me	thanks for having me back.
And tell us please, where did this asbestos ended up in Libby?	and tell us please where did this asbestos ended up in	And, tell us please where did this asbestos ended up in	and tell us please, where did this asbestos ended up in libby?
Where did it end up? Almost every conceivable place - the exhaust from the mine, which was six miles away, put tons and tons of asbestos fibers over the town. It'd get out in the afternoon and you will be able to write your name in the windshield of the car. People brought back waste tailings and used it to build drive...	where did, it end up? almost every conceivable place - the exhaust, from the mine which was, six miles away put tons and tons, of asbestos fibers over the town it'd get. out in the afternoon and. you will be able to write. your name in the, windshield of the car people brought back waste tailings and used it to build d...	Where did it end up? Almost every conceivable place - the exhaust from, the mine which was six miles away put tons and tons of asbestos fibers over the town It'd get out in the afternoon and; you will be able to write your name in the windshield of the car, People brought back waste tailings. and used it to build drive...	where did it end up? almost every conceivable place - the exhaust from the mine, which was six miles away, put tons and tons of asbestos fibers over the town. it'd get out in the afternoon and you will be able to write your name in the windshield of the car. people brought back waste tailings and used it to build drive...
Now, the EPA went into Libby very soon after your report ran and started working on cleanup. How much have they spent in the last eight years on trying to clean up Libby, Montana?	now; the epa went into libby very soon after your report ran and, started working on cleanup how, much have they spent in, the last eight years on trying to clean up libby	Now the EPA went into Libby very soon after your report ran and started working on cleanup How much have they, spent in. the. last eight years on trying to clean up Libby	now, the epa went into libby very soon after your report ran and started working on cleanup. how much have they spent in the last eight years on trying to clean up libby, montana?
I don't have the most current figures, Melissa, but the last time I looked at it, there was an excess of 100 million.	i don't have, the most, current figures melissa. but the last. time i looked, at it there was an, excess of	I. don't have the most current figures Melissa but. the last time I looked at it there was an excess of	i don't have the most current figures, melissa, but the last time i looked at it, there was an excess of 100 million.
And you're still seeing reports, there was a report just a month or so ago about an elementary school in Libby, some - a wall was knocked down, asbestos spilled out, the kids were picking it up and were exposed.	and you're still seeing reports there was a report just a month or so ago about an elementary school in libby some - a wall, was knocked down asbestos. spilled out the kids were picking it up and were;	And you're still seeing reports there was a report just a month. or so ago about an elementary school in Libby some - a wall was knocked down asbestos spilled out the kids were picking it up and were	and you're still seeing reports, there was a report just a month or so ago about an elementary school in libby, some - a wall was knocked down, asbestos spilled out, the kids were picking it up and were exposed.
Yeah, the town is, I mean, it's just all over the town. I feel that it's a shame because it's just a gorgeous town and the valley's surrounded by beautiful Cabinet Mountains and the Kootenai River and it's just filled with this material.	yeah the town is i mean it's just all. over the town i feel, that it's a shame because it's just a gorgeous town and the valley's surrounded by beautiful cabinet mountains and the kootenai river and it's just filled with this	Yeah the town is I mean it's just all over the town I feel that it's, a shame because it's just a gorgeous town and the valley's surrounded by beautiful, Cabinet Mountains and the Kootenai River and it's just filled with this	yeah, the town is, i mean, it's just all over the town. i feel that it's a shame because it's just a gorgeous town and the valley's surrounded by beautiful cabinet mountains and the kootenai river and it's just filled with this material.
The Montana senator, Max Baucus, has been calling for a whole lot more money to be spent on the cleanup. He says, this $250 million settlement is a drop in the bucket and he blames the EPA too, for not being able to tell the people who live in Libby how clean is clean. Is he right about that, do you think?	the montana senator max baucus has been calling for a whole lot more money to be spent on the cleanup he says this $250 million settlement is a. drop in the bucket and he blames the epa too for not being able to tell the people who live. in libby how clean is clean, is. he right about that do you	The Montana senator Max Baucus has been calling for a whole lot more money to be spent on the cleanup He says this $250 million. settlement is, a drop in the bucket and he blames, the EPA too for not being. able to tell the people who live in; Libby how clean is clean Is he. right about that do. you	the montana senator, max baucus, has been calling for a whole lot more money to be spent on the cleanup. he says, this $250 million settlement is a drop in the bucket and he blames the epa too, for not being able to tell the people who live in libby how clean is clean. is he right about that, do you think?
I think, he's right about that but with all respect to the good senator, it's not due to a lack of effort on the part of the people in the field. The people that came out of the Denver office were about the most dedicated government types I've ever seen. For years, they fought not only their own agency, the U.S. Senate...	i think he's right about that but with all respect to the, good senator it's, not due to a lack of effort on, the part of the people, in the field the people that came out of the denver office were about the most dedicated government types i've ever seen for years they fought not only their own agency the u.s senate an...	I think he's right about that but with all respect to the good senator it's not due to a lack of effort on the part of, the people in the field The people that came out of the Denver office were about the most dedicated government types. I've ever seen For years they fought; not only their own agency the U.S Senate and...	i think, he's right about that but with all respect to the good senator, it's not due to a lack of effort on the part of the people in the field. the people that came out of the denver office were about the most dedicated government types i've ever seen. for years, they fought not only their own agency, the u.s. senate...
And it was really interesting, Melissa, because when you ask them why they put so much of their life into this, they say that traditionally, in cleaning up Superfund sites, they are always doing this on the assumption that people will die. So for the first time, they were actually cleaning up a site where people were d...	and. it was really interesting melissa because when, you ask them, why they put so much of their life, into this they, say that traditionally in cleaning; up superfund sites they are. always doing this on the assumption that people will die, so for the first time they were actually cleaning up a site where, people were...	And it was really interesting Melissa because when you ask them why they put so much of, their life. into this they say that traditionally in cleaning up, Superfund sites they are always doing this on the. assumption that; people will die So for the first time they were, actually cleaning up. a site where people were d...	and it was really interesting, melissa, because when you ask them why they put so much of their life into this, they say that traditionally, in cleaning up superfund sites, they are always doing this on the assumption that people will die. so for the first time, they were actually cleaning up a site where people were d...
We've been talking about a civil settlement for the cleanup here. The company, W.R. Grace also faces criminal charges at a trial that should be up coming. What are the charges there?	we've been talking about a civil settlement for. the cleanup here the; company, w.r grace also faces criminal charges at a trial that should be up coming what are the charges	We've been talking about a civil settlement for the cleanup here The company W.R Grace also faces, criminal charges at a trial that should be up coming What are the charges	we've been talking about a civil settlement for the cleanup here. the company, w.r. grace also faces criminal charges at a trial that should be up coming. what are the charges there?
The United Nations has approved an international tribunal; so has Fouad Siniora, the prime minister of Lebanon. The legislature though, has not, and that's the sticking point. And so many people said that this bombing yesterday was tied to today's rally, but it also came one day after the speaker of the parliament anno...	the united nations has approved an international, tribunal so has fouad, siniora the prime minister of lebanon the legislature though has not and that's the sticking point and so many people. said that this bombing yesterday was tied to today's rally but. it also came one day after the speaker of the parliament announc...	The United Nations has approved an. international tribunal. so has Fouad Siniora the prime minister of Lebanon The legislature. though has not; and, that's the, sticking point And so many people said that this bombing yesterday was tied to, today's rally but it, also came one day after; the speaker of, the parliament a...	the united nations has approved an international tribunal; so has fouad siniora, the prime minister of lebanon. the legislature though, has not, and that's the sticking point. and so many people said that this bombing yesterday was tied to today's rally, but it also came one day after the speaker of the parliament anno...
NPR's Peter Kenyon speaking to us from downtown Beirut. Thanks very much, Peter.	npr's peter kenyon speaking to us from downtown beirut thanks very much	NPR's Peter Kenyon speaking to us from downtown Beirut, Thanks very much	npr's peter kenyon speaking to us from downtown beirut. thanks very much, peter.
You're welcome, Renee.	you're welcome	You're welcome;	you're welcome, renee.
More now on Tom Daschle's withdrawal and the implications for the Obama administration. Sheila Krumholz is executive director of the Center for Responsive Politics, a group that keeps an eye on money, politics and influence in Washington. Welcome to the program.	more now on tom, daschle's withdrawal and, the implications for the obama administration. sheila krumholz is executive director of the center for responsive politics a group that keeps an eye on. money politics and influence in washington welcome, to the	More now on Tom Daschle's withdrawal and the implications for the Obama administration Sheila Krumholz; is executive director of the, Center, for Responsive Politics a group that keeps an. eye on money politics and influence in Washington Welcome to the	more now on tom daschle's withdrawal and the implications for the obama administration. sheila krumholz is executive director of the center for responsive politics, a group that keeps an eye on money, politics and influence in washington. welcome to the program.
Thank you.	thank	Thank	thank you.
President Obama ran as a reformer who would change the way Washington does business. Did Tom Daschle's nomination undermine that claim?	president. obama ran as a reformer who would change the way washington does business did tom daschle's nomination undermine that	President Obama ran, as a reformer who would change the way Washington does business; Did Tom Daschle's nomination undermine that.	president obama ran as a reformer who would change the way washington does business. did tom daschle's nomination undermine that claim?
Well, it certainly caused an appearance problem for the administration, which is not a good thing to have right off the bat. I think more fundamentally it underscores the high standards, but also the difficulty with meeting those high standards for the administration.	well it certainly caused, an appearance problem for the administration which is not a, good thing to, have right off the, bat i think more. fundamentally it, underscores the high standards but also the difficulty with meeting those high standards for the	Well it certainly, caused an appearance problem for the administration which is not a good thing to have right, off the. bat I think, more fundamentally it underscores the high standards but. also the difficulty with meeting those high standards for the	well, it certainly caused an appearance problem for the administration, which is not a good thing to have right off the bat. i think more fundamentally it underscores the high standards, but also the difficulty with meeting those high standards for the administration.
I want to ask you about one standard, which is the is-he-a-lobbyist standard. If Tom Daschle were a registered lobbyist, he would've been presumably barred from a job in the administration. He wasn't, but he was in the lobbying wing of a Washington law firm.	i want to ask you about one standard which. is the. is-he-a-lobbyist. standard, if tom daschle were a registered lobbyist he would've been presumably barred from a job in the administration he wasn't but he was in the lobbying wing of a washington law.	I want to ask you about one standard which is the is-he-a-lobbyist standard If Tom Daschle were a registered lobbyist he would've. been presumably. barred from a job in the administration He wasn't but he was in the lobbying wing, of a Washington. law	i want to ask you about one standard, which is the is-he-a-lobbyist standard. if tom daschle were a registered lobbyist, he would've been presumably barred from a job in the administration. he wasn't, but he was in the lobbying wing of a washington law firm.
Right. And that law firm has significant lobbying contracts. He is not, technically, a registered lobbyist. He is a senior policy advisor, but he can spend up to 20 percent of his time doing exactly the same kind of work that a lobbyist would do.	right and that law firm has significant lobbying contracts he is not technically. a registered lobbyist he is. a senior policy advisor but, he can spend. up to 20 percent of his time doing exactly the same kind of; work. that a lobbyist would	Right And that law firm has significant lobbying contracts, He, is not technically a. registered lobbyist He is a senior policy advisor but he can spend up to 20 percent of, his time doing exactly the. same kind of work that a lobbyist would	right. and that law firm has significant lobbying contracts. he is not, technically, a registered lobbyist. he is a senior policy advisor, but he can spend up to 20 percent of his time doing exactly the same kind of work that a lobbyist would do.
Well, could the Obama administration, or could any administration have a rule that would cover what people do, not just whether they're registered to do it?	well could the obama administration or could any administration have a rule that would cover what people do not just whether they're registered to do	Well could the Obama administration or could any administration, have a rule that would cover what people do not just whether they're registered to do	well, could the obama administration, or could any administration have a rule that would cover what people do, not just whether they're registered to do it?
You know, that would be a difficult one to impose and to regulate. I think the strength of the lobbying law is that it is so narrowly defined - covering the most important piece of lobbying, which is contacting Congressmen and covered officials.	you know that would, be a difficult, one to impose and to regulate i think the strength of the lobbying, law is that it is so narrowly defined - covering the. most important piece of lobbying which is contacting. congressmen, and covered	You know. that would be a difficult one to impose and to. regulate I think the, strength of the lobbying law is that it is so narrowly defined - covering the most important piece of lobbying which is. contacting Congressmen and covered	you know, that would be a difficult one to impose and to regulate. i think the strength of the lobbying law is that it is so narrowly defined - covering the most important piece of lobbying, which is contacting congressmen and covered officials.
But are there a lot of people in Washington who would pass the litmus test of, say, not being a lobbyist, but who are, you know, big influential players, who are being compensated to a great extent because they are former powers on Capitol Hill or in the executive branch?	but. are there a lot of people, in; washington who would pass, the litmus test of say. not being a lobbyist but who are. you know big influential players who are. being compensated to a great extent because they are former powers. on capitol hill or in the executive	But are there a lot. of people in Washington who would pass the litmus test of say not being a lobbyist but who are you know big influential players who are being compensated to a, great extent because they are former powers on Capitol Hill or in the executive	but are there a lot of people in washington who would pass the litmus test of, say, not being a lobbyist, but who are, you know, big influential players, who are being compensated to a great extent because they are former powers on capitol hill or in the executive branch?
Absolutely. You often get former members of Congress who are hired specifically because they have those connections. They can call on former members of Congress easily. They're playing tennis or golf with them on the weekends as it is. The distinction here, again, is that it can't be the majority of what they do. They ...	absolutely you often get former members of congress who are hired specifically because they have those connections they can call on former members of congress easily they're playing tennis or golf with, them on the weekends as it is; the distinction here again, is that, it can't be the majority of what they do they can...	Absolutely You often get former members. of Congress who are hired. specifically because. they, have those. connections They can call on former members of Congress easily They're playing tennis or golf with them, on the weekends as it is The distinction here again is that it can't be the majority of what they. do They ...	absolutely. you often get former members of congress who are hired specifically because they have those connections. they can call on former members of congress easily. they're playing tennis or golf with them on the weekends as it is. the distinction here, again, is that it can't be the majority of what they do. they ...
At the Department of Defense, Secretary Robert Gates brought in William Lynn as his number two. And Mr. Lynn was lobbying for Raytheon, a big defense contractor. But he was given an exemption. As you view it, is there a proper place for exemptions when you have a policy that says no lobbyists at such levels?	at the department of, defense. secretary robert gates brought in william; lynn as his number, two. and, mr, lynn was lobbying for; raytheon a big defense contractor. but he was given an exemption as you view it is there a, proper. place for exemptions when you. have a policy that says no lobbyists at such	At the Department, of Defense Secretary Robert Gates brought. in William Lynn as his number two And Mr Lynn was lobbying, for Raytheon. a big defense contractor But he was given an exemption As you view it is there, a proper place for exemptions when you have. a policy that says no lobbyists at. such	at the department of defense, secretary robert gates brought in william lynn as his number two. and mr. lynn was lobbying for raytheon, a big defense contractor. but he was given an exemption. as you view it, is there a proper place for exemptions when you have a policy that says no lobbyists at such levels?
I don't think you ever want to say absolutely no exceptions. There might be someone who has such stellar expertise, that you would be doing yourself a disservice, cutting your nose off to spite your face by not allowing that person to serve. The huge disappointment there was the speed with which the Obama administratio...	i don't think you ever want to say absolutely no exceptions. there might be someone who has. such stellar expertise that you would be doing yourself a disservice cutting your nose off to spite your face by not allowing that person to serve the huge disappointment there was the speed with, which the obama administration...	I don't think you, ever want. to say absolutely no exceptions, There might be someone who has such stellar expertise that you would be doing, yourself a disservice cutting your nose off to spite your face by not. allowing that person to, serve The huge disappointment there was the speed with which the Obama administrat...	i don't think you ever want to say absolutely no exceptions. there might be someone who has such stellar expertise, that you would be doing yourself a disservice, cutting your nose off to spite your face by not allowing that person to serve. the huge disappointment there was the speed with which the obama administratio...
You're saying you would've been more impressed if some anxiety had gone into the decision and some time had been taken.	you're saying you would've been. more impressed if some anxiety had gone, into, the, decision and some time had been	You're saying you, would've been more impressed if some anxiety. had gone into the decision and some time had been	you're saying you would've been more impressed if some anxiety had gone into the decision and some time had been taken.
Absolutely.			absolutely.
(Soundbite of laughter)	(soundbite of	(Soundbite of	(soundbite of laughter)
We've also heard about Nancy Killerfer, who had the tax problem with the D.C. government and with - who was the overseer of budget and spending reform in the Obama administration. Did her tax problem strike you as a disqualifying violation?	we've also heard about nancy killerfer who had the tax problem with the d.c government and with - who was the overseer of budget and spending reform. in the obama administration, did her tax problem strike you as a disqualifying	We've also heard about Nancy Killerfer who had the tax problem, with the D.C, government and. with - who was. the overseer of. budget and spending reform, in the Obama administration Did her tax problem strike you as a disqualifying	we've also heard about nancy killerfer, who had the tax problem with the d.c. government and with - who was the overseer of budget and spending reform in the obama administration. did her tax problem strike you as a disqualifying violation?
You know, a $950 lien on her home for unpaid taxes on household help doesn't seem to rise to the level of importance that the $128,000 in back taxes that Tom Daschle owed does. But I think she was cognizant of the disconnect between her serving for OMB as the chief performance officer and having these back taxes owed. ...	you know a $950 lien on her home for unpaid taxes on household help doesn't seem to rise to the level of importance that the $128,000 in, back taxes that tom daschle owed does but i. think she, was cognizant of the disconnect between her serving for omb as the. chief performance officer and having these back taxes owed...	You know a $950 lien on her home for unpaid taxes on household help doesn't seem to rise, to the level of importance that the $128,000 in. back taxes. that Tom Daschle owed does But I think she was cognizant of the disconnect between her serving for OMB as the chief performance officer and having these back taxes owed....	you know, a $950 lien on her home for unpaid taxes on household help doesn't seem to rise to the level of importance that the $128,000 in back taxes that tom daschle owed does. but i think she was cognizant of the disconnect between her serving for omb as the chief performance officer and having these back taxes owed. ...
You don't think the bar is either too high or too low at this point for service in Washington?	you don't think the bar is either too high or too low at this point for service in	You, don't think the bar is either too high or too low at this. point for service in	you don't think the bar is either too high or too low at this point for service in washington?
I think it remains to be seen. Again, they've pledged a change in culture in Washington. That's going to be incredibly difficult for them to achieve.	i think it remains to be; seen again they've pledged a change in culture in washington that's going to be incredibly difficult for them to	I think it remains, to be seen Again they've pledged a change in culture in Washington That's going to be incredibly difficult, for them to	i think it remains to be seen. again, they've pledged a change in culture in washington. that's going to be incredibly difficult for them to achieve.
The Obama administration.	the obama	The Obama	the obama administration.
The Obama administration. And I think we're too early in the game here for people to be able to judge for themselves whether this represents a, you know, simple lapse of judgment on the part of a great candidate, or whether, in fact, it's representative of the Obama administration, of Obama himself back-sliding on his ...	the obama. administration and i think we're too early in the game here for people, to be able to judge for themselves whether this represents a you know simple lapse of judgment on the part of. a great candidate or whether in; fact it's representative of the obama administration of obama himself back-sliding, on his	The Obama administration And I think, we're too early in the. game here. for people to, be able to judge for themselves. whether this represents a you. know, simple lapse of judgment on the part of, a great candidate or whether in fact it's; representative of. the Obama administration of Obama himself back-sliding on h...	the obama administration. and i think we're too early in the game here for people to be able to judge for themselves whether this represents a, you know, simple lapse of judgment on the part of a great candidate, or whether, in fact, it's representative of the obama administration, of obama himself back-sliding on his ...
Sheila Krumholz, thanks a lot for talking with us.	sheila krumholz, thanks a lot for talking with	Sheila Krumholz. thanks a lot for talking with	sheila krumholz, thanks a lot for talking with us.