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There's an argument to be made that there needs to be more upskilling of those who would supply the information. Unfortunately—I won't say the name of the particular victim—there was a case not that long ago where a centre was aware of injuries to the child and didn't report them. There needs to be some consideration o... |
I certainly have seen, unfortunately, in my time practising, that there are often a lot of little indicators that lead up to a serious crime of violence committed against a child. Those little indicators can build over time, people can excuse them and say, "Well, it's not that bad", but then it just builds and builds, ... |
I would say that the National Party absolutely values children, as I'm sure every single member of this House does. We deeply value the wellbeing and welfare of all New Zealand children, and of all New Zealand children who have to, unfortunately, I would say, end up in State care. I say unfortunately because, ultimatel... |
So that is the reality that we have to grapple with. We have to work out the best way to address that, to improve the strength of families and the ability of parents to take proper care of their children. And we have to have the relevant law in place so we can ensure that the relevant agencies that are charged with tak... |
DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yeah, sorry, speaker, my apologies. There's been a leak of the clock, and it's to your credit that you've been able to speak so nobly and with such good vocabulary for that time, but, actually, I have to say to the speaker, the time is up. |
Joseph Mooney: Thank you, Mr Speaker. |
DEPUTY SPEAKER:: But well done carrying on. |
ANAHILA KANONGATA'A-SUISUIKI (Labour): Kia ora e te Mana Whakawā. It's always an honour and a privilege to make a contribution in this House. Today, it's the second reading of the Oranga Tamariki Amendment Bill and I'll make a short a short contribution. |
I want to acknowledge all the submitters. I want to acknowledge the Minister and his leadership in shepherding this important bill—which is partial of what he intends to deliver in his portfolio as the Minister for Children. I want to acknowledge the officials and the select committee. |
We've heard the Minister clarify what the bill does, but I will focus on two matters that the bill does. So the bill amends the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 and it partially repeals the child provisions so that subsequent provisions will only apply in respect to parents relating to murder, manslaughter, or infanticide of a... |
What happens now is that if a mother is pregnant, it has to be reported to the State and the Family Court has mandatory oversight if the children in the care of the parent have been permanently removed by the State. So what this bill does is that it only will apply for parents who have been convicted of murder, manslau... |
What happens? Currently, the Family Court conference allows for family deliberations to be private, but it doesn't actually clarify that Oranga Tamariki must not be present. What clause 6A does is it actually says that that Oranga Tamariki, the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki, or its representatives, must not be par... |
Lastly, I want to acknowledge the Oranga Tamariki Māori rōpū, the |
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[Authorised translation to be inserted by the Hansard Office.] |
especially, the leadership of Danny Thompson, Maureen Rapata-Kemp, and Foulis Foster, because for years they have been championing the fact that the Māori engagement and decision making for mokopuna who are reported to Child, Youth and Family—Oranga Tamariki now—must involve family deliberations without the State. |
That's what this bill will do; it will enable family deliberations at family court conferences not to have Oranga Tamariki or its representatives present during those deliberations. And in those words, I commend the Oranga Tamariki Amendment Bill to the House. |
JAN LOGIE (Green): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I've been standing a few times in this House, recently, to speak to Oranga Tamariki - related legislation. The conversations have not been comfortable recently, so it's a bit of a relief to be able to stand in the House in support of the Oranga Tamariki Amendment Bill today. |
I didn't have the luck or the time, unfortunately, to be on the select committee to hear all of the submissions. There were 24 written submissions and I have gone through those, and I think there were 11 oral submissions. So I am really interested in the committee stages that are due to come to hear more of that nuance... |
In this contribution, I do want to primarily focus on the subsequent child policy, noting that most submissions also focused on that part of the bill. That part was introduced, I think, came into law in 2016, under the then National Minister Paula Bennett. What it did was introduce a provision or a policy into the law ... |
So if they were satisfied that the child would be safe, then then social worker would have to go to court for a confirmation of the decision not to apply for care and protection. So they'd have to go to court to confirm that they would not take that child, because presumption was that they would take that child. Or, if... |
I was in Parliament at the time that that law passed. The Green Party raised concerns, along with others in this House, about the outcomes of that law. We understand, as we've heard from other speakers tonight, the sense of real-heart concern that we all have for the wellbeing and the safety of our children in this cou... |
But there was a problem at the time around the practices within Child, Youth and Family—and part of it links to that sense of wanting to protect and the images that we have in our head of who we need to protect children from and also a failure to acknowledge the prevalence and the intersection between intimate partner ... |
So in the first reading of that bill, in 2013, it had just been the previous week where the former Police Commissioner Howard Broad had released a review into the complaints system of Child, Youth and Family. At that time, he raised concern that their practice—of the organisation—was failing to adequately meet their le... |
And what we hear—I know that sounds like a complex way of putting it for some people. But to put it in simply, in some levels, is 48 percent of pregnant women, if I'm remembering correctly, whose pēpē Māori were taken into State care before birth had been in State care themselves. So if we're thinking about the biases ... |
And we are still hearing—a social service provider up in Auckland was just telling me a few weeks ago about how every single day they are working with whānau who have had their children taken or have been threatened to be taken, not because of abuse, but because of poverty and struggle to get housing. |
So you think about this policy and where there's been a history of a child being removed and you're doing the assessment on whether that person is going to be safe, and they're struggling to find permanent housing or space for their new baby or they're struggling to pay their bills, it's an understandable leap for the ... |
It puts the onus on that parent to do all the work of proving, "Hey look, I've done all of these programmes, I've got off the drugs, I've got my family support, my abusive partner is now being dealt with by these people—like to make all of the cases to overcome that inherent bias is, what we've heard in too many review... |
And what we've also heard is that the problem with that policy is, particularly when it's the babies that have been removed, how long it takes after they've been removed to make your case to prove that, actually, now you're safe. And this came up in the Waitangi Tribunal; and it might be six months, it might be eight m... |
I want to note, too, to some of the points that were made previously, that Judge Becroft's submission to the Waitangi Tribunal about the impact of this policy—and I will try and quote it here if I can find it—described the provisions as "pernicious" and "totally unnecessary piece of legislation" that "should be repeale... |
He considered the introduction of the legislation had to lead to a culture shift of Oranga Tamariki that exceeded actual application of that statute, noting that more broadly, the onus of proof shifted to parents to prove their ability to safely care for subsequent children, rather than the earlier onus on Oranga Tamar... |
Hon Todd McClay: That's so racist. |
JAN LOGIE: —a Māori woman struggling against poverty— |
Hon Judith Collins: What a racist comment to say. |
Hon Todd McClay: What a racist comment. Disgusting. |
JAN LOGIE: —to prove to a Pākehā social worker in a system that's made pre-determinations that she is going to be safe. And to try and pretend that it's inappropriate to say that when all of the data tells us—ha, ha!—the Waitangi Tribunal has ruled, our children's commission has come to conclusive conclusions that the ... |
DEPUTY SPEAKER: This debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 13 September 2022. Thank you for your work this week, members. |
The House adjourned at 5 p.m. |
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