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How to sell? | russell: I once tried to turn myself into a salesman, but I coulnt. I think that an engineer has to love selling to sucessfully make the transition. One thing that worked for me was to use an intelligent, personable woman to do the initial setup. Then I would come in for the in-depth pitch. It was a lot more comfortable for me. It is important, however, for you to learn the sales process from a good book or, better, a good coach. Engineers tend to over pitch and over promise. There is a non-obvious point in the process to shut up and take the order. |
I will work for free ... part 2 | tptacek: I'd like to ask you to take your answers to comments on your previous post and place them as one or more comments on that previous post, instead of making yourself a repeated topic for all HN readers to read. I'm concerned about the precedent, of people writing "Ask HN" posts that are not in fact questions that we all deal with and want to see the answers to, but instead are elaborate resume posts. |
How to sell? | coryl: Do you guys have any recommendations - perhaps books and techniques - on how I can gain confidence and become a good salesman?Practice, practice, practice. Get yourself out there, expose yourself to bad situations, tough questions. Start small if you have to, cold calls, emails, whatever. |
How to sell? | epi0Bauqu: I'm doing a video on this very topic with a great software salesman (security to enterprise) for http://tractionbook.com. Please stay tuned.I've decided that I need to do more of these "vertical" videos in addition to entrepreneur traction stories. If there are particular aspects you want me to cover, or other topics (in other videos, e.g. SEO), please let me know. |
How to sell? | delano: Give yourself a couple weeks to practice selling a product that you're not attached to and that's in an unrelated market. |
Breaking the Blank Canavas | antidaily: Lately, I've been using a grid css framework to create the layout and focus zones of the template. Fast and easy. Then I tweak the colors and backgrounds in photoshop. I believe 960.gs even comes with PSDs. |
Downvoting etiquette | machrider: No, people shouldn't be downvoting comments just because they disagree with you. However, if you say something that goes against the grain, you're going to get downvoted every now and then anyway. It helps to develop a thick skin, or better yet, try to ignore comment scores altogether. |
How to sell? | access_denied: Understand that the sales conversation is just another engineering project. You are developing a speech-to-speech algorythm that converts any "no" into a "yes". Input parameters are 'features' of your product that have to be synthesized into 'benefits' by a sub-system, etc |
How to sell? | jorisvoorn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-AXTx4PcKIAlways
Be
Closing"The hardest thing in life is sell"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104348/* * *
The biggest step in my opinion is the psychological one. After that, everything comes in much easier than before. |
How to sell? | hga: I too am an introvert who's physically exhausted by talking to strangers (but not friends). Here's what I did when my programming and system integration work was behind ~ $3.75 million of $5M total for FY92 of the company I was working for:Frequently the senior salesman, our "closer" (and he was good), would take me to a customer to convince them we had what it took, understood their problem and would solve it, integrate with their systems, etc. etc. etc. (For verisimilitude I'd be wearing my normal business casual attire of a dress shirt, black jeans and visually quiet running shoes.)I'd spend up to a few hours before a whiteboard with their people and honestly sell our proposed solution, and it worked very well. I wasn't good for anything the next day, but that was more than an acceptable cost.Anyway, my point here is to echo russell, you may be able to do this with a division of labor approach. Get some salesmen who are good at sales and good enough with the domain to do the work you find the most hard, and reserve your sales efforts for where you can make the most difference.Good luck! |
Downvoting etiquette | tokenadult: For a contrary (but perhaps former) view of the site founder, seehttp://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171"I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement. Obviously the uparrows aren't only for applauding politeness, so it seems reasonable that the downarrows aren't only for booing rudeness."It only becomes abuse when people resort to karma bombing: downvoting a lot of comments by one user without reading them in order to subtract maximum karma. Fortunately we now have several levels of software to protect against that."A few months ago, the site founder, pg, asked about whether implementing more flagging options for marking comments would help make more clear what the community thinks of various comments.http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1006589There was some interesting discussion in that thread. On my part, I will just try to follow the local cultural rules and do what I can to contribute interesting content to the site, and to discourage postings that don't contribute to the site. I am just one participant among thousands here, and I don't get to set any of the rules.I will ask an informational question here. You wrote, "I always thought that you should upvote posts you agree with," but that is not parallel to your idea "only downvote content that actually doesn't contribute to the discussion." In other words, is it possible that some kinds of content deserve upvotes even if you don't agree with it? And, on the other hand, is it possible that we all should downvote certain comments whether or not we agree with them? But let me emphasize the positive, as I have attempted to do before,http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1065084and ask everyone reading this thread, "What Kinds of Comments Should Be Upvoted?" What comments are good comments, and contribute to the discussion even if you don't agree with them? I like comments that add new verifiable information to the discussion, even if they force me to change my mind. |
How to sell? | lrm242: Don't become a salesman. Become an evangelist for your product. Selling comes in all flavors, but if you're comfortable talking about your product and helping potential customers understand how you can help them, then focus on the pre-sales process and let your partner close the deals. You don't have to be a bare knuckled closer to be a salesman. Many CTOs in startups are actually glorified sales engineers--I know I was. After the engineering grew they became self sufficient and I spent most of my time with customers, helping them understand how my product could help them solve their problems. I never once negotiated a deal, we had "sales guys" for that--but I was most certainly selling. |
Downvoting etiquette | telemachos: My experience tells me that (1) people certainly do downvote simply for disagreement and (2) it's simply not much worth worrying about.The Guidelines seems to me to get it just right (see link in the site's footer):>> Resist complaining about being downmodded. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. |
How does a Jr. to Mid-Level programmer find work? | hdx: Thanks everybody for the insights, I really appreciate it. I have this idea for an app I'm gonna build it and see what happens :P. In the mean time I'll change my resume a bit so that it emphasizes the stuff you guys pointed out. |
How to sell? | njl: Really really listen, and steer the conversation with questions. Focus on real pain they have that your product can solve. Let them come to realize for themselves that your product will solve real problems for them, and then get the hell out of the way while your partner closes.You're selling something you believe in. That makes it easy.A specific book I'd recommend is "SPIN Selling" by Neil Rackham. He did actual research into successful solution sales cycles. He outlines the best way to go about making somebody realize that your product is exactly what they want. It's from 1988, but most tactical solutions-selling books since have felt to me like a branded rehash of SPIN Selling. |
How to sell? | dgunnars: You can probably read thousands of books, take classes and seminars etc. but in order to be a good salesman, all you really need to do is to be willing to listen to your clients, and really try to understand their problems and how your solutions can help them.Once you really listen to your clients, understand them, and make them feel like you understand them, you're good. The rest will come easy once the client feels at ease, and feels like you are willing to take them time and effort to listen to them and put yourself in their shoes. |
Review hyperlocal Q&A site askaro.com | unignorant: Nice, I like it -- cool idea, good design, and straightforward UI.Although it seems you might have some competition in sites like yelp... |
How to sell? | treeform: You need to make people like you as a person first. Then you can sell your product. |
How to sell? | tkiley: Hire someone who likes sales.Seriously, hire someone who likes sales.I hate selling. I like building. I started my company in 2006. In three years, I signed 3 deals. Then I found a partner who lives and breathes sales. In the past three months, I have signed two additional deals and have five more in end stages of negotiation. Thanks to our new head of sales, went from actively talking with 15 concurrent prospects to actively talking with 150 concurrent prospects.Don't kill yourself doing sales. Kill yourself finding someone who will do it well and love it.Edit: I should mention that the average value of our contracts is going up too. Well-executed sales strategy can generate more revenue off of the same quantity of goods sold. Don't underestimate it. |
How to sell? | robfitz: First, go read Steve Blank's book (http://www.amazon.com/Four-Steps-Epiphany-Steven-Blank/dp/09...). It puts a comforting amount of structure around the sales process and turns what's normally a big ball o' confusion into a set of tasks with concrete steps & goals.It also helped me to spend a lot of time in bars and cafes talking to strangers until I was comfortable with both the approach & conversation. |
How to sell? | skmurphy: Focus on asking the right questions and then giving good answers (this may often involve follow up in a second conversation). Work as part of a sales team so that the presentation burden can be shared. Develop and maintain an extensive FAQ for your product so that others can also speak knowledgeably about it. In the end introverts can make excellent sales people because they are willing to listen and give thoughtful responses. Most of the time you are "selling with your ears" so help your team succeed. SPIN Selling by Neal Rackham is a good intro book on sales. |
How to sell? | metamemetics: Start with Why: http://mixergy.com/start-with-why-simon-sinek/Basically, start by talking WHY you and your company do what you do rather than WHAT it does. In conversation, people are constantly trying to determine the underlying motives and beliefs of the other party. Don't make them work for it, tell them.ex: "As an engineer, I enjoy discovering new ways to do things more efficiently. I highly value tools that are pragmatic and well designed. I founded CompanyX to embody these values. We just happen to make the most pragmatic and most efficient Widgets currently on the market."So you start with Why, and the What(product) will naturally follow.Start with No: http://mixergy.com/negotiate-jim-camp/The default answer people will give you is "no", because "no" maintains the status quo and is therefore always a safe choice. If you start by telling the potential customer:"It's perfectly fine to say NO, I promise I won't personally be offended. If our Widgets are not what you're looking for, feel free to offer suggestions as I was the lead engineer and we are constantly improving our products"They will become more relaxed and put more genuine effort into hearing what you have to say knowing it's fine to say no.Basically you want to disengage their defense mode.Also, you can strongly leverage the fact you are an engineer and not a salesman. Literally tell potential customers "I am primarily an engineer not a salesman, but I'm very passionate about the products I've helped design and want to tell people about the cool stuff we've created" |
System administrator (to be or not to be) | mshenoy4573: @nailer, @hga thanks guys I will take both of ya'll suggestions into consideration.... I am actually a little hands on ith solaris 8 and 10 and even zfs I will look into the cloud setup as you mentioned @hga tat sounds tempting to me .... thanks again guys. My concern isnt as much as my skills but as to if there are any jobs as entry level system admin |
System administrator (to be or not to be) | dnsworks: As someone who has spent more than half of his life as a sysadmin, I'd suggest only going into it if you're a masochist. It's really a lousy lifestyle. The pay is decent, but even in the best of environments, you're viewed as a cost center, disrespected by developers, and at the end of the day you're only doing a good job if you're automating yourself out of one. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | thiele: What's the first step to getting started?(or in other words, "Just start building something") |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | bgnm2000: I think customer development (from steve blank's book: the four steps to the epiphany) is a really important subject rarely touched upon in schools. Often times you can sell the product before you even create it. That needs to be communicated to students. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | BenSchaechter: Hardest thing in my opinion: perseverance. There are going to be ups and downs with starting and running a business. I don't know if anyone really started with the "right idea" -- but as you persevere and keep going ideas evolve and things will hopefully work out in your [business's] favor. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | adelevie: Why start early?
Early is probably the best time in your life to do it. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | lyime: "Don't be afraid to take an old school concept and reenergize it. Modern methods are essential to success" via @MassachusettsRealtor |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | quizbiz: First of all I think you're doing a great service to the student body. I have really had to reach out in order to gain advice and information as a college freshman doing a web dev business and a summer storage franchise. I think many think about time management a lot. Here at Emory there is a ton of pressure to do well and aim for a 4.0 for Grad School. The time commitment necessitated for venture is difficult to deal with. So please talk about time management. The most inspiring words I heard about the subject probably were along the lines of, take advantage of the free time you have now because later on you'll only have less and less. I think that came from HN. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | chrischen: > Why start your own business? Why start early?I start because I have an undeniable urge. I start early (now) because I want to be able to harness this urge while it's still here, and while the opportunity still exists.> How do you know if you have the right Idea?Test your idea by getting it out asap. That's the only way. Anything else would just be guessing.> Why it will be the hardest thing you will ever do?Maybe not giving up? |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | e1ven: I'd advise against taking on any debt in your own name- It's a very tempting offer, particularly if you have good credit coming out of school, but it will mean that if the business does go south for whatever reason, even if it is outside your control, you may be paying it off for decades.Instead, build something that can raise profits immediately, and start building from there. That will help to keep you focused on what your revenue stream can support- Borrowed money allows you to have unrealistic ideas, and overspend too quickly. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | paulgb: Not sure if you found this to be the case with Mugasha, but as an undergrad currently in the same position my biggest advice would be "get mentors". It never occurred to me how useful and willing to talk people who had successful businesses would be.Another one is the importance dedication and hard work. I have friends who've dropped out to start businesses. They work harder and longer hours than my friends who stayed in school (myself included). |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | dkokelley: You might want to talk about the different styles of businesses (lifestyle business, owner-operator, founder/starup, franchise, hell, you can through MLM/network marketing in there if you want).A lot of times people have an idea in their head of 'this is what a "business" is'. Showcasing the alternative styles of business might bring more students to realize that starting a business can fit their goals even better than they imagined. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | mrphoebs: Tell them that they need to weigh the upside and downside of risks they are taking (financial, time, value) before they take the leap. More often than not starting young has a lot of upsides. No golden handcuffs, More agile/lean , No family to support, Ramen profitability is OK and the delta in learning is huge. Tell them that the upside to failure(which is the worst outcome not considering going into debt) in their first venture is way better than their downside.Also tell them that the hardest part no one talks about is how starting a company means you are the boss and how you need to plan stuff everyday and get it done. Also, its not the amount of work they get done but the results they get and how driven they are to get those results that matter in the end. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | proee: A cardboard box makes for a good table. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | jacquesm: I'm going to write this as a high-school drop-out that did very well:Finish that college and forget about that startup, assuming you're in a halfway decent college and a somewhat useful discipline.I know you've been asked to speak about your experience, but keep in mind you've been asked because of your success, and the road behind you is littered by the corpses of those that didn't make it.Starting a business, while in college, or out of it, is in large part luck if it is successful. By talking to people about what you've achieved you may give them the impression that this is easier than it looks, so stress the amount of luck that went in to it, to make sure they can weigh the odds accordingly.Starting early or late isn't really much of a decision, the longer you wait the more knowledge you have, so the bigger the chance that you will succeed the first time, but by then the people that started earlier will have failed once already and will have learned from that as well. It works out about even.Being a 'domain expert' is limiting your business to something very small right away, better to be general and to know how to procure the services of domain experts!You know you have a 'right idea' when it starts moving under its own power, instead of you having to push it.Finding investors is for a very lucky few, better concentrate on realistic scenarios for bootstrapping.Possible additions to your list:- the value of networking- keep your fixed costs DOWN! (even today I still do this)- make a nest egg as soon as you can afford it- live healthy, running a startup is like top sport |
How to sell? | onoj: I agree with many postings here but would like to add the following perspective. I dislike labels and "roles" so I would suggest thinking in the following way - you like creating good, viable solutions. You are prepared to go above and beyond to make something work well and work in all applications.The best and fastest way of achieving this is to meet with people who could use what you do and find out what they need. If you use this as an optimization tool, I believe the "selling" part will take care of itself. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | dangrossman: Just because it was the hardest thing you ever did doesn't mean starting a business has to be the hardest thing every student's done. Plenty of businesses have grown out of hobby sites set up in the spare time by college students. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | portman: >> What advice would you give college students about starting a business?You are not as experienced as you think you are.I wish someone I respected had told me this when I was a college student. In college, I thought I was super-awesome. I thought I was already a leader. I thought I was qualified to manage a 100-person company. I thought I didn't have much else to learn; I just wanted to start a company so I could grow it and sell it and make a ton of money like everyone else.Now I know that I am merely above-average and lucky. I know that for every problem I face, there is someone more experienced than I who has already solved that problem, thrice-over, and wants to help me. If I had known this 10 years ago, I think I would have sought out a lot more advice, been much more receptive to criticism, and been a better entrepreneur.Note: obviously this is 100% personal and anecdotal. I may have been the only a-hole in college who needed to hear that message, so YMMV. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | ra: 1. Don't mess around, just do it.2. Aim high |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | ptn: I'm a college student who wants to start a business, these are the questions that I'd like answered:- do it full-time or on the side?- what kind of advice should I not listen to?- My skills are programming and designing, what kind of stuff should I learn?- do I really need to move to a technology-rich country? (For the effects of your talk, maybe you should change country for city.)- how do you get customers and do sales if you are an introvert geek?- what to look for in a cofounder? |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | JangoSteve: I actually just had a discussion with a group of students and advisors from the UofM center for entrepreneurship Friday. I think the 3 take-away points from my speech were:1. You know you want to be an entrepreneur when you don't feel right doing anything else. This life is too short to spend it doing something you hate.2. Be Flexible. Be passionate. But don't let your passion get in the way of your flexibility. We're all attached to our ideas. But sometimes you have to be open to the possibility that no one wants what you want them to want.3. (this is the single most important piece of advise I could give anyone, no matter what they decide they want to do with their life) Learn how to tell a story. If you can become a great storyteller, you can succeed in whatever it is you decide to do with your life. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | shaddi: As a current college student, I'd recommend they try their hand at starting a student organization that does something entreprenurial (a microfinance organization, or a group providing tech services to the poor, for example). I suppose I don't have the experience to compare it to launching a startup, but from what I've understood about startups there are a lot of similarities:- You are the one in charge, you have to make stuff happen- You have to figure out where money is going to come from and how to make it last (if you don't have a legitimate budget sheet you're doing it wrong)- You have to think about recruitment and retention of members (hard when payment is not an option)- You have to manage and motivate people- You have to set goals, develop a vision, and convey that to your members- You have to find organizations who can help you, and learn how to form mutually beneficial partnerships- You face hard times and good times, but have to keep going regardless- You learn your strengths and weaknesses as a leader (good for knowing what to look for in a co-founder)- If you are really passionate about what you're doing, you'll learn what it's like to really devote yourself to an organization- Somewhat trivially, you'll need to learn how to handle lots of emails, personal contacts, and competing time commitments.The nice thing is that the cost of failure is pretty much 0 in a student organization. If it doesn't work, no one will really care that much. But if it does, you've made a mark on your university and probably learned a lot in the process. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | chadarimura: Those are great topics, and I would add: "Choosing your team wisely".A former college entrepreneur myself, it was easy in the early stages to ignore "feelings" that our founding team didn't mesh well, but as the company grew in size and responsibility, those initial feelings became show stoppers. |
What's actually "defendable" about web startups these days? | _ngw_: The only answer is the culture behind a decision. If you're doing things right you are following a "plan" and solving a problem, a feature is your catch about a possible solution. If your competitors copy it, you did your work right, it means that you have a good knowledge of your userbase and generally of the domain.
The problem will never be a competitor copying you, it's if a competitor implements your next feature before of you and the solution you're coming up with is the same.
At that point, you're not managing the rules of the game anymore. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | waxman: - Don't be afraid to seek out resources at your school (alumni, entrepreneurship programs, professors, fellow students, etc.)- Don't spend too much time planning; think through some basics, then build a prototype, and launch it. From then on it's all about listening to your users and iterating. I think this is tough for college students, who are used to overanalyzing things, and not used to just doing things.- Don't waste away your college years over a start-up. It's great to start a company in school. But college is a one-shot opportunity. Don't forget that. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | ecaron: From all I've seen, I would bring home these points:1) Have a full-time job and do the startup on the side until you're simply not able to anymore.2) Read, read, read about modern successes and failures. Studying management of the 80s doesn't make you a good manager - it makes you a historian. Find people you look up to, and learn what you don't want to do.3) Don't make a copy of something until you've tried to fix what you don't like of the original. |
The health care reform will create more jobs? | tptacek: No idea. But it will definitely make it easier to change jobs, and it will definitely make it easier to strike out on your own. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | fnid2: - Why start your own business? Why start early?Success takes practice. The sooner you start, the more likely you will be to end up successful in the end. I started my first .com while I was still in college. Start it because it's a learning experience. It's a way to test yourself against a larger pool of competitors. It'll make you stronger and better able to empathize with future bosses if you don't succeed right away. It'll help you be a better person, more persuasive and help you understand the world better.- How to be a domain expert?Do it for 10,000 hours according to Gladwell.- How do you know if you have the right Idea?The market pays you money for it.- Why it will be the hardest thing you will ever do?It's not the hardest thing you'll ever do. Not by a long shot. Well, it may be. It's not the hardest thing I've ever done. But maybe I'm not working hard enough. Really it's about finding balance in your life and being happy. Setting your own path. Finding your own success and reaping more of what you sow.- How do you bootstrap?Get a good job for a couple years. It'll give you valuable experience and maybe help you find your right idea. Save EVERY penny you can. Get a cheap car or better yet take public transit. Live close to work and walk. Get a cheap apartment. Cook at home. Take your lunch to work. Save up 2 years of living experiences. Then quit and move back home. Code in your basement.Do consulting on the side. Pick up projects from the internet. Work with friends. Tell everyone you know that you are trying to do something great and they'll give you work or help you find it or refer you. People will admire you for trying your hardest and trying to achieve something on your own. They'll live vicariously through your success and feel good for helping you create it.- How do you find investors?Network. Build a good product and they'll find you. You'll start getting calls from VCs. When that happens contact the ones you want. Try thefunded.com for an introduction. Look for angel lists. There's one floating around here.Don't start looking for VC until you are 18 months into your 2 year runway. That'll give you 6 months. If it doesn't work, you still have something that may be generating some side money for you if you are not making enough money to live -- that's where you want to strive to get. Don't expect to make millions, you'll be discouraged. If you do, great! But don't set your pass/fail lines at the same level of the startups you read about on TC or here.General advice:It will take way longer than you imagine. A large part of success is proving your commitment to a great idea to the world by dedicating your life to it. Don't spend money on PR firms, corporations, big contracts, or to demo your product. Get incorporated when you get a customer. Don't spend a lot, go to legalzoom or fill out the paperwork on your own.Don't be burdened by all the legal stuff. You can get your ducks in a row if a big deal comes along or investors want a piece. Worrying about the hurdles will only slow you down.Use cloud computing providers. Don't buy servers and infrastructure. Host for as cheap as you can, then move if you or your users feel sluggish responses from your app. |
The health care reform will create more jobs? | blueben: Whether or not it creates jobs, it will surely save jobs and that may be even more important. Health care is a cost that companies bear, and that cost has been rising at an absurd rate. Unless we do something to control that rate of increase, companies will have to start cutting to save costs and the easiest cuts to make are in staffing. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | rue: Finish school. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | paraschopra: I will advise students to first get some experience at either at a big company or well funded startup. Work for a couple of years and then do your own thing. Right after college, one is usually full of hypotheses and an unreal model of real world. Best way to test all those hypotheses and get a good understanding of how outside-college world works is to work at some other company. |
I'm way too shy, please help | sscheper: Don't want this to come off rude, but here's my tip: Get outside. |
I'm way too shy, please help | samh: No I wouldn't.Question one, are you more attached to your self image as someone who has a real problem with shyness or are you more attached to the idea that you need to solve this problem for real ?Are you serious about overcoming it ?If you are, what you need to do is to take steps, possibly very small steps, every day, to push yourself past your comfort zone and be around other people and overcome your shyness.There is no knowledge that will help you, you cannot read, think, research or write your way out of it, you can only practice and train your way out of it.- Every day this week I will smile at a stranger. Then smile at two a day, then ten.
- Every day I will say 'hello' to people as I pass them and smile.
- When I deal with a cashier or serving person I will say "Thanks, you having a good day ?" I will practice small talk.Action not thought will help you. |
The health care reform will create more jobs? | abrown28: sure it will.. government jobs. IRS is planning on hiring 1000s |
I'm way too shy, please help | jacquesm: hey ptn,What are you afraid of that makes you so shy ?People rejecting you or ridiculing you ?Is there something in your past that made you decide to 'play it safe' ?The instrument thing I can completely relate to, I used to play the saxophone (I managed to blow a small hole in one lung so not any more), and I really didn't dare to play it in front of others, I felt completely naked doing that.And then one day a guy I knew in Amsterdam changed that, he played as well and said, come, the weather is good, let's go outside and play. He was way better than I was and there was no way I was going to be caught dead playing out in the street (Amsterdam, so you're pretty much assured an audience).But he kept on needling me until I gave in, one song only. So we went out and played that one song. One song became 10 and before long I really enjoyed it, even if I never played outside again I did lose my shyness about that.With people in conversation it is a different thing, writing is a lot easier than speaking because when you write you can re-read your words before you click that 'submit' or 'reply' button and that gives you some time to get your thoughts in proper order.People that are good at 'thinking on their feet' usually have less of a problem with interacting with others than those that need to think for a bit.I really suggest you read darkxanthos' blog posts about all this, he has a way with words that I can't hope to match and his experiences are chronicled in a way that you actually get something from it that you can use.There is this song called 'sunscreen', one line in it stands out for me: Do something that scares you every day.best of luck!Jacques |
I'm way too shy, please help | iworkforthem: @ptn ... quote 'oprah an't that beautiful either' and she got her own show. this an't going to work if you r not going to get out of your comfort zone.upside, posting a Ask HN is a good stand. Try make a video next. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | iworkforthem: - Why start your own business? Why start early?
So that you won't have to work some stupid boss and complain all for the rest of your life. We all make mistake along the way. Better to learn from any mistakes early.- How to be a domain expert?
Got to love the subject, and be really really really good at it.- How do you know if you have the right Idea?
There is not right idea, just a solution to solve a problem.- Why it will be the hardest thing you will ever do?
f!- How do you bootstrap?
Try to be a bit creative here alright.- How do you find investors?
See above. |
What advice would you give a young technical cofounder in a "CTO" role? | iworkforthem: Mgrs manage... most of the time they dun do technical shit! more importantly is that u, not other. u being a CTO wat can u do to make things fast with IT. |
Common sense emacs tutorial that doesn't assume I'm stupid? | Fixnum: Emacs has pretty good/massive documentation: for help, just press "C-h t" (Control-h, then t ...) for a tutorial. Or, type "M-x info" to get into info mode and then scroll down to the Emacs section. Type 'h' in info mode for a tutorial on info ...Are you using Scheme or Common Lisp? For MIT Scheme or similar, you might want to take the Emacs tutorial in Edwin instead (start MIT Scheme with the "-edit" flag) since it contains Scheme-specific commands. Also check out http://www.gnu.org/software/mit-scheme/ and follow the directions to install xscheme.elc - it gives you a Scheme-mode optimized for MIT Scheme. This doesn't compare to SLIME mode for Common Lisp, but I don't know of a good substitute.That said, there are QUITE a lot of Emacs and Scheme-mode commands, and the only way to learn them is through use. Once you're familiar with the basics (motions and evaluating), you might take a list of commands you want to master and put up two or three at a time, making a point of using them. Here's a very limited and basic set of Emacs/Scheme commands: http://github.com/bcdarwin/SICP/blob/master/emacs_bindings_s...There is also customization via the .emacs file or Emacs Lisp programming; see the Emacs info documentation or the O'Reilly books on this. |
How to sell? | wslh: If you're in the sales/no-sales dilemma and you're a key asset for selling I recommend first to cowork side by side with somebody with experience in sales.If you came from some engineering field you must have some idea about selling, probably starting seeing sales as an engineering problem, I recommend these articles:- http://www.forentrepreneurs.com/sales-marketing-machine/jbos...- http://www.forentrepreneurs.com/sales-marketing-machine/intr...But in my opinion sales is all about no-procrastination and acting very quickly instead of planning too much. |
How to sell? | iworkforthem: do a couple of videos and ask for feedback for your existing customers. preach a lot on how ur solution solve your customer's problem. |
I'm way too shy, please help | ax0n: Get out and find people a bit like yourself. My advice: Find a hackerspace where you can collaborate with people in person. You can start by helping them, or giving them input without exposing your work all at once. You'll be around people who understand your type, and some of them will likely be shy as well. Many of the meetings at these places are not overwhelmingly crowded, but there are enough people there that you can lurk if you want to. As you get more comfortable with the people, you'll find it easier to share. Eventually, you might even give a presentation with another member, to the group. Or maybe you'll give a presentation yourself. You'll be able to practice your interpersonal skills on people who won't judge you very harshly. |
What advice would you give a young technical cofounder in a "CTO" role? | lgas: Buckle up. It's going to be a bumpy ride. |
What do you listen to when you code? | Rust: Metal and Jazz, sometimes Country. Metallica to Cat Powers to Django Reinhardt to Travis Tritt to Sepultura to Ida Maria to Godsmack to Opeth to Jennifer Holliday to Jeff Buckley to Rise Against to Jesse Dee to Pantera to Stone Sour to Paul Brandt to Hank Mobley, etc., etc., etc. |
What advice would you give a young technical cofounder in a "CTO" role? | skennedy: Be humble and remember you do not always have the right answer. Listen to advice from everyone and learn when to take some of it with a grain of salt. Question every piece of information from every source, including your own gut feelings. If you can learn to challenge the boss on financials, listen to your subordinates on their recommendations, and be weary of your own misconceptions, you will do just fine.Best of luck! |
I'm way too shy, please help | dondemarco: I recommend that you read this book: Psycho-Cybernetics by Dr Maxwell Maltz. If you practice all the exercises in the book, particularly the one at the end of chapter two, you will start seeing tangible results after day 21 and significant results in a few months. I cannot recommend this enough! |
I'm way too shy, please help | noodle: with respect to a blog, create a fresh anonymous online identity, and go from there. no need to show it to people you know. let it continue to be closed off so that you can comfortably show off your work. include it on resumes only if it is applicable, where you can feel more comfort in the fact that you're putting a whole lot of yourself out on the line and that adding the blog is just a drop in the bucket.with respect to app/business, find a partner who is willing to be the face of the company, and operate behind them. no one really has to know that you're supplying the code. |
I'm way too shy, please help | iamelgringo: Great suggestions here. I'd also suggest improv classes or acting classes. Most large cities have improv classes of some form, and your local community college is bound to have some acting classes. They are a great way to get in front of people in a controlled setting, and try to do weird things. After pretending to be an elephant in front of an acting class every week for 3 months, it's amazing how much easier it is to talk with a stranger about your product. |
I'm way too shy, please help | anonjon: Just keep in mind that you are going to die eventually, and that life is short, so it will be relatively soon.There's so few ways that embarrassment will kill you but there's many ways that being really really alone like that will kill you.Worst thing happens is you get laughed at, best thing happens is something really good. So focus on the really good. laughed at isn't anything. |
I'm way too shy, please help | kingkawn: I used to be awkward, then I realized that by talking to people when I feel that way I can transfer my awkwardness to them, and split between the two of us its not so bad. The shyness comes from trying to handle it all on your own. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | johnm: So much good advice that's high-level so here's a real simple one...Trim your nails. |
What do you listen to when you code? | nfnaaron: Silence. I rarely listen to music when I'm working, because I like music, and when it's playing I pay attention to it. And then I can't work. |
I'm way too shy, please help | ahi: Practice practice practice. Like anything else you get better by trying (and occasionally failing). You have to put yourself out there to overcome shyness, leaving your comfort zone. There is no switch to flick that makes it go away. I'm not much for formal education, but one thing it has given me is required presentations. With a few very painful public speaking experiences under my belt I am far less scared of it because I know I am getting better. At some point you just have to say "fuck it" and do it. No pain no gain.Maybe this is a reach, but I'll use the Woz as an example. When he was making the Apple I doubt very much he was capable of managing a coherent conversation. He was the quintessential socially inept nerd. 30 years later he's still no Jobs, but he can give a decent interview. I suppose it helps having "fuck you" money, but really he's just had a couple decades of practice. |
I'm way too shy, please help | patio11: I used to be shy and have a bit of a speech impediment. To get over it, I joined the forensics club (competitive public speaking). It is amazing how much that has helped me over the years. ("Presenting my new idea to the CEO? Pfft, just another speech. Need a joke for the intro... always start with a joke for the intro...")If you're still in school, I recommend that or debate. If you're not, I hear Toastmasters is pretty decent. |
I'm way too shy, please help | weaksauce: Have you tried a job in retail? I did computer sales for a while and I know it sucks but it did help me by forcing human interaction in mass numbers. The company was bad, but it was good on a few fronts: coworkers were generally interesting to talk to, I got a part time job on the side from a customer that gave me a lot of experience, I started a company with a few coworkers doing computer networking which afforded me some interesting experiences. Overall it was a net win.This will get you practice in human interaction which is invaluable. |
What advice would you give college students about starting a business? | ahi: - Why start your own business? Why start early?
Have you seen the job market? Most of the job offers you will get (if they get any) will be low pay and low responsibility, essentially digging yourself a hole at the beginning of your careers. Even if unsuccessful, starting your own business builds experience and skills making yourself more marketable in a few years when the job market is better. |
I'm way too shy, please help | puppetsock: Find a good therapist (psychologist) to talk to about this. Working through shyness will be a long process, and having a smart caring person to coach you through it will be a big help. Therapists are people who are genuinely interested in helping people in this way, and they have been developing and honing the relevant set of skills. I'd say it's important to find someone who works well for you and your personality, so maybe it would help to talk to a few to see who you have the best rapport/connection with. |
I'm way too shy, please help | cheald: Find your local Toastmasters chapter. The pitch is to learn how to become a better public speaker and leader; everyone I've ever known that's been a part of it has raved about how it rounded off their shy edges and made them massively more confident. They'll make you uncomfortable as hell, but just remember that everyone else is there for the same reason to some degree. |
I'm way too shy, please help | rokhayakebe: ptn, you may be afraid of rejection.Maybe you could start by telling yourself that whenever you are too worried about someone's opinion, you are in fact saying "S/He is more important than me".I am a very shy person. I fear others' opinion. So I turned my fear into a game. For example If I go out, I only talk to girls that intimidate me. During meetings I talk the least, but I take notes, write my talking points before speaking.In other cases I literally imagine myself standing on the side watching me talk to people. I think this is not me, I am over there, watching my clone do this.The most extreme I went was having a goal to say hello and smile at anyone I saw in a day (at the store, bank, work, street, etc...). Then I went further and chatted with at least 1 stranger everyday.Take it as a game. It will be fun and soon you will start not to care. |
I'm way too shy, please help | armandososa: Perform.I used to be very shy, so much that I wasn't even able to talk to girls (yes, like the guy in TBBT) and I was always afraid of doing something seemingly embarrassing even if it was not. I cannot even make anything ressembling a dance because I was convinced that people will laugh at me.One day I realized that this was ridiculous so I've started fighting my shyness one baby step at a time. First, I've started wearing sunglasses which I've used consider pretty lame. I was prepared to be mocked out by people but I noticed that nobody actually care!Then I got my first girlfriend which dumped me after one month. I was so angry that I went to this party acting like a douche and I got 3 numbers from pretty girls.So I got the keyword is 'acting'. I didn't like acting as a douche though, so I keep being pretty shy.Well, like seven years ago I've started playing in a christian ska band. What I did then was this: I will disguise myself as a rudeboy with sunglasses and a hat and a checkboard tie so nobody could recognize me and then I will 'act' as a ska rockstar. That worked pretty well, one year later I was dancing like crazy at the stage and three years later I even got some personal fans :DMan, being a rockstar even a completely-obscure one is awesome.So my advice are this two things: 1) Do one little ridicule thing at a time and 2) perform.So when you want to play the guitar don't do it as yourself. Grab some 70's rockstar wardrobe and act like one. For some strange reason rockstars don't get laughed at. So act as one.I've translated succesfully this approach to other areas of my life. Two years ago I got invited to give a talk in the first big web conference in Mexico. I was completely nervous but I knew that this was a turning point for my career so I did it.I watched a lot of talk videos on the web and when I finally got into the stage I stop being myself and acted like a mix between Jason Fried, Gary V and Troy Mclure (the guy from the simpsons). It's funny but acting like an arrogant star boost your confidence.I'm not saying that it works for everybody, just that it worked for me. I'm still not Gary V but at least I'm not Raj Koothrappali. |
I'm way too shy, please help | Debugreality: There is some good comments here about practicing, the trick is to find what works for you.Make a list of small things you think you can try. Try them. If one doesn't work for you that's ok, write down what you learn from it not working. Maybe you can try it a bit differently next time, or try something else.Just keep at it, it usually takes a few missteps to learn new things so don't worry about it. That's part of learning.Good luck! |
I'm way too shy, please help | ptn: A very big "thank you" to everyone that posted a reply. There are true gold mines here, and every bit helps. |
I'm way too shy, please help | sutro: Fill a bathtub up with Axe body spray, anabolic steroids, and Old Crow whiskey and soak in it for a couple of hours. Problem solved. |
I'm way too shy, please help | psyklic: Here is a really great blog by someone who made it into a game, with challenges for himself and simple stages. Maybe you can find some inspiration through his posts:http://socialskydivingwithjustin.posterous.com/Also, a trick that I use to practice new ideas is to go into places where I don't know a single person. Then, I can try all kinds of crazy things, knowing that I'll never see any of the people again :) |
What do you listen to when you code? | atiw: Silence. mostly it is easier to grasp new ideas and form new designs this way.And then, Iron Man Soundtrack or Matrix soundtrack, or Linkin Park. This is for when I know what I am doing, and it just needs to be coded.
Like, doing tests, fixing bugs, testing new features, pretty much all coding which doesn't require any help. |
What do you listen to when you code? | proexploit: Dub Step from http://soundcloud.com/. I can't imagine it might work for many people but that's what really gets me moving. |
I will work for free ... part 2 | jarsj: Flagged you. |
I'm way too shy, please help | sev: I'll tell you a little about myself, hopefully my history regarding shyness can help you.I used to be shy, at school, around friends, even at home (outside of my parents and siblings). Until I was chosen to be one of the lead characters at a school play, which I was pretty much forced to be a part of. I had a stomach ache to the point that I couldn't stand up straight, I was so scared. Somehow though, I was able to recite the lines properly. Thereafter I was complimented so much by so many different people, even people I didn't know (such as other actor's parents), that I was able to gain self confidence and thought that I was truly a great actor who can maybe become one in the future. This play was a turning point in my life, because to this day, I'm not shy, and I know I'm not a very good actor. The worst that could have happened at this play was that I wouldn't be complimented (no way anyone would insult my skills, as it's not expected of a student to be good, let alone amazing). In hindsight, it was worth the shot for a possible less shy future.As a teenager I had quite a bit of acne, and that caused low self-confidence in me for a while. How I got over it was simple, yet accidental (or subconscious, as there is no way I would have thought of doing this on purpose at that time): overt confidence display. Basically, act extremely self confident, and do things that even the bullies in class wouldn't dare to do. This causes people to look at you in a more respectful way (at least in school, but with some modifications can be applied elsewhere), one in which they stop seeing your face, but what you've done, your history, your "self-confidence", etc. It's kind of like being a fat ugly rock star or famous actor/celebrity/CEO. Overt self-confidence display can lead to really bad behavior though, which I was able to control, but try to keep that in mind.Currently, I've removed the "overt" part from "overt confidence display." However, it was necessary at first, to make as strong of a first impression as possible.In theater, they teach actors to consider the audience members as donkeys or some other animal sitting down and watching them, to create a less traumatizing experience. Try to do something similar when you play the guitar, or talk to someone. Who are they to cause you to fumble or stutter or cause anxiety? No matter who they really are, they're no one to cause any of those symptoms.Sorry about the long essay. |
What do you listen to when you code? | Kliment: Richard Williams (of Roger Rabbit fame)wrote an excellent book about animation called "The Animator's Survival Kit". In it he describes (illustrated with beautiful caricature) how he once asked Milt Kahl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milt_Kahl)"Milt, do you ever listen to classical music when you're working?"Kahl is illustrated as turning back from his work, towering over Williams and bellowing"Of all the s-s-s-stupid god-god-god-damned questions I-I-I-I've ever heard! I-I-I-I-NEVER heard such a-a-a-f-f-f-f-stupid question! Iy-Iy-Iy-Iy-I'm not smart enough to think of more than one thing at a time!"The author is then pictured with "Animation is concentration" written across the back of his shirt.I tend to agree with this sentiment when it comes to programming. If you can't have quiet, find a place where you can to start new projects. Music is to be enjoyed, and I enjoy music most when it's the thing I focus most on. I can listen to music when cleaning, but not when programming (or cooking). |
I'm way too shy, please help | fretlessjazz: If you're young, get a job at a help desk or tech customer support. It will work wonders, trust me. |
I'm way too shy, please help | bricestacey: It helps to do something... a little more mundane. No one goes around casually talking about their complicated lives (of which both guitars and blogs fall).For example, I was cleaning up my backyard today (something mundane) and saw that some flowers had sprouted. I took a picture and posted it on Facebook exclaiming that Spring was here (again, something mundane) and when I go into work tomorrow I'm going to boast about the newfound glory of Spring to every single person I see.You might take up a simple hobby like running (mundane), but it's something you can easily talk about. "I went for a run today. It was so nice out." Simple. If they're interested, you can fill in some more details about how you now have shin splints or that you stepped in a puddle. If they're not interested, no big deal. You had some top-notch small talk. |
What advice would you give a young technical cofounder in a "CTO" role? | sandGorgon: if you are clever with HN search, you will find a thread written almost a year back where a CTO talked about being sidelined by a VP-Engineering.The best thing I learned from that was, as a CTO you have to "measure everything and control the conversation"EDIT: got that for ya - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=509571 |
What do you listen to when you code? | gtani: Eno's music for airports, other ambient stuff, Philip glass and Steve Reich. Mostly, i walk around with my Shure IEM jammed into my ears so i can't hear anything.http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=144666http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=132026http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=99936http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=367418 |
I'm way too shy, please help | durbin: I would have considered myself shy in the past and one of the rationalizations that helped me get over being shy is that everyone projects how they would react and feel on other people.Do you judge others work or blogs harshly? Are you judgmental of others opening themselves up and putting their work and thoughts out in public? I'd say the first step is making sure that you are not judgmental of others putting themselves out there and in turn you'll realize the best people (and the only ones you should care about imho) are the ones that aren't judgmental and embrace people sharing what they are thinking and realize its tough to have brilliant ideas all the time. |
I'm way too shy, please help | ankeshk: Countdown to failure. Make it into a game.Rookie salesmen - the best instruction they receive is not: go and get 10 sales. The best instruction they receive is: go and get 30 Nos.The goal of 30 Nos means they won't give up before that even if they face a lot of shit.A lot of pickup artists do this too. They instruct people to go and approach as many girls as they can with a made up opening line before they are rebuked a 100 times.Counting down to failure works better in making sure you don't give up before you can raise your confidence level.Action Summary:Figure out what you consider your failure point.Come up with a number. You need to reach your failure point that many times.Eg: It could be 10 people asking you to stop playing your guitar within 2 minutes of you starting to play. |
I'm way too shy, please help | jarmop: I used to be very shy. Not any more. I still don't like crowds, and I prefer to be with one or two people - but I can make a speech for five or five hundred persons, who usually tell afterwards that it was the best part of their day - or the whole week.
What helped:I went to a course in our university, "confidence as presenter" (bad translation of the name, sorry). The teacher was excellent, and I guess that is what really is what counts.So, my advice would be: go to some course about communications or such, but make sure that the teacher is excellent. |
I'm way too shy, please help | jacoblyles: I don't have a problem as severe as yours, but I was able to reduce my shyness by forcing myself to go through with situations that I was afraid of. It was sort of like jumping into a cold pool. Once you're in the water it is not as unpleasant as your fear told you it would be. And once you learn that, it gets easier to jump in the pool the next time.It's also something you can't learn by thinking about, or by reading advice. You have to learn by doing.But honestly, I'm not that shy of a person. I'm only shy in certain situations. So I'm not sure how much it will help you. |
I'm way too shy, please help | Tichy: "I wrote some songs and publicized them...in forums, to strangers, not to people I knew."This just made me think, perhaps you should simply hang out on ChatRoulette for a while :-) (Haven't tried it myself).But seriously, I think just practice. I recently read one of the "The Game" books out of curiosity (about the pickup artists, I read "The Mystery Method"). Not sure if I like it, but one thing stood out: in their seminars, they make people go into night clubs and chat up at least 10 women per night (or was it even more, don't remember for sure). in other words, they simply practice a lot.I know this is not (just) about talking to women, but I think in general anxiety really can be overcome with practice. Take smaller steps, though - playing your music in front of an audience is comparatively huge. One thing I did is for a while ask a question at almost every conference/public talk I went to. I felt a difference very quickly. |
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