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**Filippo Valsorda:** There's that, but I don't even use that. I use the matching of the actual public key. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Oh, that's right, because you have a list of the actual keys. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Yeah. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** So I'm trying to figure out why it didn't find mine. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Is that key added to your GitHub account? |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I'm using this computer to login to push to GitHub. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Interesting. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Yeah, so what's happening is probably that the database is out of date. We should wait for Ben to get home and ask him... \[laughter\] |
**Erik St. Martin:** Call him! |
**Brian Ketelsen:** "Sorry, our DBA isn't available right now..." |
**Erik St. Martin:** Phone a friend... \[laughter\] |
**Filippo Valsorda:** "Yeah, I want to use the help from home..." \[laughter\] |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Nice, I just added a function to my Bash functions directory, so now I can just type hellogopher in any directory and it will use wget to get the hellogopher makefile and add it to the current directory. I can't wait to go try that out. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Nice! |
**Erik St. Martin:** Nice! |
**Brian Ketelsen:** All about some aliases... |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, the cool thing about that "who's there" thing is it really makes you connect with how much information leakage there is. You don't really consider that when you try to SSH a server that you're leaking information that you could be giving away, say, email addresses, or those keys could be used... |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Yeah, I didn't even go full creeper on it, because from the GitHub account you can probably jump to the Keybase account if you have Keybase, or use the links you have in your bio, and from there jump to your Facebook or your Twitter and from there jump to your bio, maybe your home address, maybe y... |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, you really could go full-on creeper because you could basically take the domain from their email address, and then start doing whois's on it and get all kinds of information. |
What other things are you working on? I know you're doing some TLS stuff as well. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Yeah, so the approach that I've been working on for the last few months - quite a few months, wow - is TLS 1.3. The short version of the crypto like page is that TLS 1.3 is the new version of TLS; it's not about getting cryptographers job security, but instead about making the protocol actually mo... |
But the point is we wanted to implement TLS 1.3 and participate in the standardization process with a real implementation deployed... So we wanted to take up TLS stack and add 1.3 ourselves. I essentially threatened to quit if they made me do it on OpenSSL -- no, I'm joking; nobody asked me. They just asked me what to ... |
\[15:56\] The nice thing we don't talk that much about, but you can definitely gather is that if our TLS 1.3 stack is in Go and you can use Go to connect to CloudFlare site it means that sometimes when you connect to CloudFlare, actually in the HTTP pipeline there is a Go HTTP reverse proxy. |
**Erik St. Martin:** So all of the CloudFlare reverse proxy stuff is written in Go? |
**Filippo Valsorda:** No, CloudFlare is an NGINX shop mostly, but if you connect with TLS 1.3 enabled, NGINX will poke our Go stack and ask if it the Go stack wants to take over the connection. If it wants, it will just pass on the file descriptor and the rest of the connection will be passed through a Go reverse proxy... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Does the Go stack get to have like a bad day? Can it say, "I'm just not interested today?" |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Yes, that was actually one of the safeguards... I was like, "You know, as a team of three people total on the crypto team, mostly me working on it, I'm not going to take over the main CloudFlare reverse proxy", but we have this nice fallback system where Go SSL can literally explode, and only open... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Nice. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** So I'm trying to follow... At the beginning of the conversation did you say that the crypto/tls package can be used in place of OpenSSL? |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Yeah, you essentially never use OpenSSL when you host a Go server that has HTTPS and TLS... You use the native Go implementation of TLS; we built TLS 1.3 into it, and we are looking to upstream it. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I know that OpenSSL has a lot of bugs... Would you recommend people to use crypto/tls and use Go instead of using whatever they're using with OpenSSL? In your opinion, is it a lot better? Is it less buggy? |
**Filippo Valsorda:** It has a better security track record, at this point we can say it. It's less battle-tested. I think we are currently the widest deployment of it, I suspect. It did pass an audit... We paid for an audit, it passed, but let's say that if you are just putting NGINX in front of your site just to have... |
Saying that I'm suggesting to actually go out of your way to remove OpenSSL by adding some Go in front - there are architectural decisions to be made there... Performance-wise it's probably slightly slower, or more CPU intensive, at least. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Gotcha. |
**Erik St. Martin:** What does TLS 1.3 offer over 1.2? What was the motivation to write that now? |
**Filippo Valsorda:** It's two-folded: there's better robustness - a lot of things that were creaky and we weren't really sure about were just removed... The policy was if it doesn't have a very good reason to be in the protocol, cough cough hearbeat cough cough, it's not gonna be in the protocol. |
On the other hand, performance-wise it cuts an entire round trip. When you connect to a website, you first do the TCP handshake (that still happens) and then in TLS 1.2 you had to do two round trips - to the server and back, to the server and back - before you could start sending real data on the connection. Now, with ... |
**Erik St. Martin:** \[19:57\] Yeah, I can see that, especially if it's a lot of connections opening and closing, rather than keep alive base connections... There's a lot of added latency there for that additional round trip. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Yeah, indeed. |
**Erik St. Martin:** So is that mostly what you work on at CloudFlare, Crypto? |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Yeah, these days I'm full-time on the Crypto team. It's a young team that is growing... It's pretty fun. It's a research team that gets to actually, say, deploy code to the world. It's fun, definitely. |
**Erik St. Martin:** And for anybody who has not seen it, Filippo actually gave a talk at GopherCon last year about Crypto and the different ciphers and things like that. You closed that with some recommendations on which specifically to use and which not to use, if I recall. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** You might be mixing me up with George Tankersley. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Oh, that's right... That was George who did that. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** But that's understandable, because - not at the time, but in the meantime, he became a colleague of mine and he's now the second member (plus the manager) of the CloudFlare Crypto team. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Well, I think that's because we were all up until 2 A.M. in one of your hotel rooms, listening to those talks. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Correct! \[laughter\] |
**Erik St. Martin:** So you did the cgo talk... But yeah, we were all hanging out... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Filippo wrote the blog post. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yes. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** By the way, I have to say I'm extremely grateful for that talk rehearsal. |
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