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**Erik St. Martin:** Do I need to read some scrollback here, Brian? You love web development... \[laughter\] |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I am so frustrated right now with frontend web development, I would be happy to just throw the whole thing out... Just the whole thing. Done. I'm done. |
**Luna Duclos:** Well, don't get me wrong, I still do quite a bit of frontend myself. The web stuff most always ends up on the lap of the backend people, so I'm still doing web development with JavaScript as well, just not with GopherJS anymore, unfortunately. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** GopherJS is sure getting cool, though. Every time I look for a binding for the bigger packages there is one now, which is really cool. |
**Luna Duclos:** Indeed, yeah. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** And it's not that difficult to make your own. |
**Luna Duclos:** Actually, do you know if anyone has made a binding for the second version of Polymer? My binding sticks to V1, so I'm actually curious if anyone took the torch, so to speak, and made one for V2. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I don't think so, but I haven't looked recently. I was looking at the Angular ones. |
**Luna Duclos:** Oh, there's an Angular binding... That's cool. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Yeah, there is, and there are two or three different React bindings now, there's Mithril bindings, there's Vue bindings... |
**Luna Duclos:** Very nice. |
**Erik St. Martin:** I haven't played a lot with the bindings or GopherJS... I tend to just separate... There's the API, and there's kind of the frontend code. |
**Luna Duclos:** Yeah, same here, pretty much. In an ideal world, I want to just deploy some static HTML, CSS and JavaScript and do everything on the REST API. But that's the perfect world scenario right there. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Yeah, my biggest problem with GopherJS is that although it's so much easier to write frontend code in GopherJS, I still have the lack of knowledge of frontend technologies, events, DOM, that sort of stuff... So now I've added another layer of translation that I have to make in order to use that, and... |
**Luna Duclos:** Yeah. And there's also the fact that you're gonna have a hard time hiring someone that knows GopherJS already. You're almost always gonna have to teach them from scratch... At least if you hire a frontend dedicated developer. It's been one of the big show-stoppers for me for GopherJS, actually. It's no... |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, because typically in a larger organization you're gonna have your frontend people and your backend people, so you would have to teach your frontend people Go in order to use GopherJS. |
**Luna Duclos:** Indeed. |
**Erik St. Martin:** That's interesting. And Brian, I think most of your struggles are usually because when you have to do fronted, you're usually trying to do it in a hurry. \[laughter\] |
**Brian Ketelsen:** \[23:43\] That's not true. My struggles are because when I have to do frontend, it's a freakin' disaster. Has anybody actually looked at the JavaScript ecosystem recently? The problem I had - it was maybe two nights ago - was I was writing a TypeScript application for Angular 2, and then I had to br... |
**Luna Duclos:** I will not disagree with you. I've had my share of frustrations because of the same reason, and also because -- it was my experience; this is not a diss to all the frontend developers out there, but a lot of frontend developers don't seem to know what they're doing. It's just lots of copy/paste embeds ... |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, I think there's a couple of issues though, too... A lot of times you end up with frontend developers who are really designers and that's really where their interest is, and they're kind of forced to learn programming. Or you have backend programmers who are just trying to rush to get the fron... |
It seems like there's a lot of fragmentation in that area, to Brian's point... There's so many different ways of doing those things, and I think it's one of the things I love about Go so much - enforcing these patterns. Mostly people do things the same way. There's not like "Well, how are you managing these things? How... |
**Luna Duclos:** Yeah. I think if there was a Go equivalent - there thankfully isn't - it would be "Which context package are you using?" Thankfully, we haven't gone there. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Somebody on Twitter -- when I made my snarky tweet about all of the different package management systems and dependency management in JavaScript, somebody said "Well, we've got 28 versions of vendoring tools in Go", and that's true... But we have one vendor standard. |
**Luna Duclos:** Yeah, and regardless of which one you use, it pretty much works. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** So that is quite a bit different, although I understand that we have fragmentation, at least in the vendoring side. Apps are apps in Go, and it is quite a bit easier. |
**Luna Duclos:** We're slowly solving it, though. Hopefully [Godep](https://github.com/tools/godep) comes out and fixed all those issues... Though I have my doubts a little bit, but we'll see how that goes. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Only time will tell. |
**Luna Duclos:** Indeed. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Where is Carlisia at? |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I'm here... You guys are asking great questions. \[laughter\] |
**Brian Ketelsen:** She's writing a new dependency manager for JavaScript for me. \[laughter\] |
**Carlisia Thompson:** That's funny. |
**Erik St. Martin:** She's just sitting here thinking about like "Wow, I didn't realize how much Brian needed frontend." \[laughter\] |
**Brian Ketelsen:** It's not that I hate it. I mean... I actually crossed a point recently where I feel like I can understand TypeScript, because it's got classes, it's got types, it's much more strongly typed than regular JavaScript... I kind of get behind that; it's not bad. And Angular is pretty easy to do for me; i... |
Once you get into having to mix Gulp and Bauer and Webpack... Just shoot me in the head, right now. |
**Luna Duclos:** Brian, how much frontend work have you been forced to do lately? |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I'd say 60% of my work in the last month has been frontend. Maybe a little more. Too much. |
**Luna Duclos:** \[28:08\] Fair enough. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I'm getting better slowly. But I'm an old dog. |
**Erik St. Martin:** It's changed a lot in recent years. |
**Luna Duclos:** It has. |
**Erik St. Martin:** It used to be so much involved there, until we got into the "minimize everything", and... |
**Luna Duclos:** And now we're moving away from that again with HTTP/2, which actually advises people not to pack all their files together. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Yeah, I got the biggest kick out of that. The rabbit hole that I went down... The people were talking about -- maybe it was on the SystemJS side, I don't remember, but one of the things was bundling to make a single file, but we don't do that anymore, because HTTP/2 means that you can send lots of m... |
**Luna Duclos:** Indeed. |
**Erik St. Martin:** I guess it would depend on the way you've had things set up, too. I don't know with a lot of the asset pipeline stuff whether people are still doing this, but one of the tricks that has been around for years is to just have multiple asset domains, because really the browser's limitation is one conn... |
**Luna Duclos:** Yeah. In fact, some CDNs actually do that for you automatically. They'll distribute your content across several domains, and you'll see C1.whateverCDN.com, C2.whateverCDN.com and so on. It's been quite interesting seeing how some apps are starting to integrate with their CDNs more. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I remember that was one of the first Rails plugins that I wrote -- I don't even know what you would call that... A host multiplier that basically treated every server as if it were 20 servers, so you had 20 different asset servers instead of one; that was way back in the day. Asset hosts... Yeah, St... |
**Erik St. Martin:** I can see you back in 'Nam, sharing Rails development stories. \[laughter\] Alright, does anybody wanna talk about anything else - interesting projects, news? |
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