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The possibilities are seriously endless for the ways that people are gonna be able to use this to help further people's learning, to help do collaborations on projects... People are gonna be able to work on really cool things without having to be in the same room, or without having to necessarily rely on having GitHub ... |
**Mikeal Rogers:** \[laughs\] What seems to set this apart is really the focus on education. We've seen a lot of collaborative editors and web editors and all that, but this is really focused on teaching people. |
**Rachel White:** \[40:01\] It's super focused, and it's broken down... It's still in the beta right now, so it's not hugely open to the public, while they're still trying to fill out some things, but if you go into the site you'll see that there's different curated collections of apps where you can go to Hello Worlds ... |
**Alex Sexton:** One of my favoritest, favorites, hottest takes on it that I saw on the internet was that it's kind of like a next generation GeoCities or Neopets or whatever you grew up with... members.aol.com/~username where people could very easily get going based on templates, and then there were endless tweakers a... |
**Rachel White:** Yeah... The other thing that is also really great about it is - I might be biased here, but Jenn Schiffer left Beaucoup to join Fog Creek to head up working with community stuff and working on Glitch to help make it better, and I know that she cares a lot about teaching people and having code be more ... |
**Jenn Schiffer:** Hi! Thank you for having me. Rachel described Glitch really well. Thank you, Rachel, and Mikeal and Alex - all of you for having me. I'm not very articulate about stuff because it's been a really busy week here at Fog Creek with launching the rename of Glitch and launching our Glitcher API, which is ... |
We really wanna make an application that is for everyone - developers and non-developers - who want to have access to becoming a developer alike. So yeah, it's been exciting in the past few days, launching a bunch of stuff... We did a thing with Slack, with a new link ufurl, app unfurl endpoint, so I built something fo... |
**Rachel White:** I know that when you all launched this officially on Monday I was super excited, because I could just think of so many times in my professional career when I didn't necessarily understand something that this would have been super helpful for me to brainstorm something and have it work as I code, and h... |
**Jenn Schiffer:** \[44:02\] Well, I've seen a lot of people who have had ideas... In the Maker Movement there are a lot of people who want to do stuff with code now, but they're not sure where to start. For me, when I was building web apps and consulting, one of the first things I would start is deploying a server and... |
Then we also have multiple user collaboration, and even more really cool, new features that aren't even out yet (they're coming out soon) that I think will make educators really happy, and also users who want to collaborate with their peers really well, so... So far so good. People seem to be enjoying it, and we've bee... |
**Alex Sexton:** Okay. \[laughter\] |
**Mikeal Rogers:** So Fog Creek does a lot of cool stuff... What made them wanna get into this educational stuff? It's really cool. |
**Jenn Schiffer:** The project started out a couple years ago... My teammate Daniel came up with the idea, and he got the opportunity with Pirijan who's a designer/developer also here, to sort of flesh out this in-browser IDE. I guess through time it just organically made sense to not just focus on an editor in the bro... |
So starting out with community as a focus is a really big thing, I think. Usually, community moderation and all that stuff is an afterthought, and we've experienced many times in our industry how making inclusivity an afterthought can lead to disaster, so we're trying to not let that happen. That's sort of what the foc... |
And then it just makes sense, because everyone wants people to have the ability to learn how to code if they want to... I don't know why anybody would think otherwise. So education as a focus is the clear path to making that the case. |
**Rachel White:** It also seems like it's a really good environment for people that are curious about wanting to try out more kinds of creative coding but might not necessarily know how to do a lot of things besides just experimenting with a language, and now that they can make an application and see it right in front ... |
**Jenn Schiffer:** Yeah... When I was learning how to program, when I was learning how to make websites and stuff, I was viewing the source of everything and I was copying and pasting this language called JavaScript, and things weren't working and I wasn't understanding script source. I was just pasting JavaScript from... |
Nowadays it's culture -- a lot of people who are new to development or just are younger don't remember we're a part a of the whole "view source" aspect of building. We're building applications with frameworks that obfuscate... When you look at the source you don't see exactly what's there, so people aren't learning in ... |
\[48:19\] Not only that, but if you wanna teach Node, you can't view the source of a Node application, and Glitch allows you to view the code of the application, both the frontend and backend files, and I think that's pretty neat. You'll be able to now in the browser see how the actual guts of the application work, and... |
**Rachel White:** Yeah. I think it's also cool that you're making it a lot easier for companies that have APIs to be able to say that they want to be a part of this and to encourage more people to try and work with the API. Don't you have the partnership with Slack now where people can more easily and accessibly make S... |
**Jenn Schiffer:** Yeah... Slack are good friends of ours, and for their app unfurl launch on Wednesday we worked with them to make sure that we had some cool apps available when the announcement came out. So I made an app unfurl that if you install the app and you post Glitch project links in your slack channel, it wi... |
We wanted to make something that was like "Okay, this exists, this is a new endpoint that's available. If you want this for your company, just take my app and remix it and update the good stuff - the part that comes to the unfurl - with what you want, and then you're good to go." You don't have to worry about rolling y... |
So that's another case where it is, you know our community page we have a lot of building block apps that you can remix off of and build your apps onto it just to save you time. That's another thing I think that we've been taking for granted from the past... One of the tenets of programming and software engineering is ... |
**Rachel White:** Cool. |
**Alex Sexton:** It's kind of like copy/pasting code, not really reusing, right? I think in an absolutely necessary way, but... |
**Rachel White:** I think it's reused... Even if you're copy/pasting, you're still reusing something that somebody has written before. |
**Alex Sexton:** Yeah, anyways... I was just being a jerk to Jenn, because I'm a jerk. Jenn, it's nice to meet you for the first time. \[laughter\] |
**Jenn Schiffer:** Who are you...? |
**Alex Sexton:** I actually have to go, but I have one question... How much did you guys find inspiration from the BestBuy remix API? |
**Jenn Schiffer:** The BestBuy remix API? I'm not familiar... |
**Alex Sexton:** \[laughs\] Oh, very surprising... They had actually some of these ideas... But that was also a failed joke, which brings me to the next point: I'm being kicked off the podcast \[unintelligible 00:51:21.10\] the third host... \[laughter\] So I hope you'll have better luck. But I really actually have to ... |
**Jenn Schiffer:** ...to BestBuy! |
**Alex Sexton:** But it was nice talking to you, Jenn. |
**Jenn Schiffer:** Hey, thanks for having me. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** That's fine, we'll be making a permanent replacement with Jenn Schiffer now, so goodbye Alex... \[laughter\] |
**Alex Sexton:** Jenn, I hope you have a pick... For our picks, in a minute. \[laughter\] |
**Rachel White:** Well, it is March Madness, so I'm sure she has plenty of picks. But back to Glitch... What is one of the coolest things that you've seen somebody make, that wasn't involved on the original -- somebody that doesn't work for Go Mix, that has jumped in since Monday, and went in and made something. What i... |
**Jenn Schiffer:** \[52:12\] Let's see... Let me think, there's been a lot of stuff. Somebody tweeted at me today this cool pixel art color analyzer... It's like all these visualizations where you add an image and it analyzes all the colors. That was really cool. |
People have been sending me example apps with things that they've been working on at work. Marco \[unintelligible 00:52:41.03\] has been sending really cool stuff... I think some of it involves service workers. What else have people been making...? I've seen some cool weather Dark Sky's API apps, and that's like a real... |
There's been a lot... It's been quite a whirlwind this past week, so I haven't had a chance to sit down and list everything, but that is something that we're doing. As we're finding cool stuff, we're curating them at Glitch.com, our community page... So you can see some of the interesting stuff that we've got there. We... |
**Rachel White:** Cool. So are you wanting places -- I mean, is a future goal to be able to get integration with companies that have APIs that would maybe need a token, or it might cost money, and then be able to have an integration where people can try it out without having to deal with any of that stuff? |
**Jenn Schiffer:** Yeah, I think that when you have an API that you want users to use, one of the barriers is that the user first has to set up their environment to use it, and Glitch sort of takes that barrier away. So if you're a company and you want developers to use your stuff, we can help you out. We launched our ... |
Right now this site's completely free, but in the future we're gonna have some premium features that will get you even closer to developers and helping them out, and really part of my mission is making it easier for anybody to program - whether it's just Hello World stuff, or even more ambitious things. |
If you want to be a part of that, I would ask you to reach out to me or tweet at Glitch, and we can help you out with that... |
**Rachel White:** Cool. |
**Jenn Schiffer:** ...whether you're a company or an individual developer. |
**Rachel White:** Awesome. Do you have anything else to say, Mikeal? \[pause\] Are you there? \[pause\] Well, Mikeal left, too... |
**Mikeal Rogers:** I was muted, I was muted! Ha-ha! \[laughter\] That happens too often. It's Amateur Hour over here. So I think we'll get into picks now... I'll go first, so that Jenn has some time to think of something. |
**Rachel White:** Why don't you tell her what a pick is? |
**Mikeal Rogers:** A pick is anything that you wanna talk about... Literally, anything. It doesn't have to be code, although many of them have been code in different projects that we wanna highlight. My pick this week is not code... A lot of people that follow me on Twitter see all of the amazing bread baking that I'm ... |
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