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**Alex Sexton:** You guys need to speak for yourself. Diaper.js comes out this fall. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Is that a library or a conference? Is that a conference at your house where people are allowed to change your baby for you? \[laughter\] |
**Alex Sexton:** No comment at this time. |
**Rachel White:** So I'm looking at the repository for this... So you mentioned the Node SaaS thing, but what are some other -- are these lists of modules, the LevelDown, NanoMessage, Canvas... Are these ones that already have enabled it, and there's other ones that need to be converted in order to be compatible with i... |
**Mikeal Rogers:** So one of the things that this whole project identified early on was "Okay, what are the most used native modules? Let's make sure that we can support those." It's virtually impossible to take everything that the V8 VM or the Chakra VM does and abstract it into an API that can just live in perpetuity... |
\[08:09\] So that's sort of what they've done with that list of modules there, it's the most common native modules. Many of them actually use NaN today, so if you can entirely support NaN and have NaN built on top of this native API, then you know that you can support most of those... |
A lot of modules actually use NaN for maybe 90% of what they do, and then they have an extra little bit of code that just talks directly to V8 for some kind of other thing, some operation that has to live outside of the NaN API because it doesn't support it, so they wanna make sure that they support even that last 10% ... |
**Alex Sexton:** I have a question... The Node GeoIP - is that at all related to this? You were like "That's native something or other..." |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Node GeoIP... I don't know if I'm really familiar with that. Is it a module? |
**Alex Sexton:** Yeah, it's super popular for building native something or other... |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Oh yeah, here we go... "Native Node.js implementation of MaxMind's GeoIP API." Cool... |
**Alex Sexton:** Yeah, I think this is in like half -- I don't know if I've installed Node modules in my life and this wasn't one of the modules that came down... |
**Mikeal Rogers:** This module looks like pure JavaScript. This looks like it's not a native module, though. |
**Alex Sexton:** Okay... Feels very nativey. Whenever you download it, you have to get the Node headers.tar.gz thing, and that broke this past week whenever npm went down. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Oh, wow. |
**Alex Sexton:** I guess the CDN went down, or something... |
**Mikeal Rogers:** This might depend on a native module, so that's probably what it is. |
**Alex Sexton:** Okay. \[pause\] |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Cool. \[laughter\] |
**Alex Sexton:** So the answer is "no". |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Yeah, yeah... Another really annoying bit of this too is if you've done any Electron development, Electron has its own version of Node in it, with its own version of V8. If you have native modules, you need to compile them, not against the command line Node and command line npm that you run on the co... |
Hopefully this will also make that a lot easier to deal with, because if they're all just bound to the same API, then they can just get compiled and be hunky-dory... Hopefully. We'll see. It's still very early days, but that's the goal - the goal is to make everybody's life easier, and to eventually also have many VMs ... |
**Alex Sexton:** I've built guitar pedals, and I'm looking forward to the day when I can on a six-dollar microchip run all my audio transforms in Node.js. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Aren't we almost there though? What does the Tessl 2 cost? The Tessl 2 is pretty close. |
**Rachel White:** I think we're definitely almost there. I've been actually thinking about trying to use the Tessl for some kind of like live visual feeding thing, because I do visuals for music stuff, and you usually need a resource with a bunch of clips. It would be easier than having to build a whole entire mini-com... |
**Alex Sexton:** \[12:05\] I was wondering, would it still make more sense that since Node.js is just becoming available on these harder for Node.js to run devices - is it actually just an easier way to run Go, or something that you know you can't ever install? If you're really resource-constrained, could you just comp... |
**Mikeal Rogers:** We just went through four compile layers... \[laughter\] |
**Alex Sexton:** Yeah, but I feel like -- not that you can't write JavaScript and it would be good, I'm just thinking in the audio situation I'm constantly resource-constrained, and I'm wondering if just the fact that JavaScript can run there means that I don't have to write in whatever microcontroller bytecode directl... |
**Rachel White:** Yeah, that's the whole point. |
**Alex Sexton:** JavaScript doesn't have the memory management to be able to handle it on that resource-constrained device, right? So I guess I'd need to write Rust, not Go if I want a memory-managed language, right? I don't know. Don't listen to anything I say. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Yeah, I mean... Susan's making a really good point in the chat here - the value of writing things in JavaScript is that there's this huge ecosystem of modules that you can plug into... |
**Alex Sexton:** Well, not necessarily for my use case... There are not a lot of guitar pedal modules, currently. |
**Rachel White:** Well, I guess you're gonna have to make them. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** It's like an opportunity. |
**Alex Sexton:** \[unintelligible 00:13:38.24\] |
**Mikeal Rogers:** But a lot of the underlying... Like, there's a huge bots community that you can tap into to help you build those guitar pedal modules as well, and there's a bunch of people doing different audio stuff and different algorithms for messing around with audio that work on top of web audio that could also... |
**Alex Sexton:** Maybe. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** \[laughs\] Yeah, and these devices are only getting cheaper and faster. IoT is an area where Moore's law is still in effect at a single processor level, so they're getting faster and cheaper every year... So depending on how long it's gonna take you to write this module, you may just wanna bet on the... |
**Alex Sexton:** Right. I don't even know Go, so this is purely hypothetical. \[laughter |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Well, if we're just saying hypothetical languages that you could learn, you could just learn Assembler. \[laughs\] |
**Alex Sexton:** Well, that's what I'm saying... You get the benefit of a language that you don't mind writing, which I assume Go is, and then you can still do something -- and I still think Go is actually a bad choice. Rust or something might be a good choice, where you have memory management, it's memory safe, and th... |
**Mikeal Rogers:** My issue with people who talk about managing memory by hand as a feature is that you're living in this crazy world where you wanna do that and you're not gonna mess it up, and very few people live in that world. If that's the only world that you can be in in order to access a particular device, then ... |
**Alex Sexton:** Right, but I think that's the environment currently with tiny six-dollar chips for audio pedals, or whatever. That's all. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Yeah. Well, you know, some day... |
**Rachel White:** When does Node version 8 come out? |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Soon... Man, I should really know this. We're working on a lot of the messaging stuff right now, but I believe it's this month; I think it's April. Yeah, April or early May will be the initial release. A lot of people wait another six months though... For six months it will be the current release, an... |
\[16:16\] But yeah, it will kick over pretty soon. Async 0.8 will also be in there, so that's fun. |
**Rachel White:** What else is in there? Unless you shouldn't tell us, because then we can talk about it next week, or something... \[laughter\] |
**Mikeal Rogers:** I think those are the two main points - the new native API stuff and Async 0.8. Every time I say Async 0.8 -- there's actually a video of this on the internet... Ben Michael, or Mitchell -- I love Ben, he's one of my favorite people, but I always forget how to pronounce his last name... He's an amazi... |
**Rachel White:** He's really good at karaoke... |
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