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willtheorangeguy
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2017-Spotlight-Transcripts

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[149.18 --> 150.54] I forget his last name from IBM.
[150.90 --> 151.18] Roberts.
[151.40 --> 151.86] Sam Roberts.
[151.98 --> 152.12] Okay.
[152.16 --> 153.20] Thank you for jogging my memory.
[153.20 --> 155.80] And he wanted to talk.
[155.86 --> 158.72] Sam was really passionate about talking about keeping Node small.
[158.96 --> 159.08] Yeah.
[159.30 --> 163.74] And Thomas actually coined, I don't know if it's him or not, but he coined the term small core.
[164.00 --> 164.28] Right.
[164.68 --> 171.16] And so one of the discussions we had in that conversation was what should or should not be in Node core.
[171.54 --> 176.60] And so as you're developing H2, you've got to be thinking about H1 being there, whether it should stay there,
[176.60 --> 178.24] if you did deprecate it, how you would do that.
[178.56 --> 183.04] So end that argument between them because they didn't really come to a conclusion of what should happen.
[183.04 --> 186.10] And do you think H2 should be in Node core or should it be a module?
[187.18 --> 188.84] Personally, I think it should be in core.
[189.54 --> 194.30] And the reason for that, Node has always been a platform for web development, right?
[194.46 --> 197.04] You know, there's always been that web server.
[197.20 --> 199.84] And that is, you know, it's a primary use case.
[199.96 --> 203.88] Even though there's so many different places Node is being used and in different use cases,
[204.54 --> 206.80] a lot of it always goes back to having Node.
[206.86 --> 208.92] And if you look, there is no standard library in Node.
[209.42 --> 210.52] But there's HTTP, right?
[210.58 --> 211.50] There's URL parsing.
[211.50 --> 215.38] There's support for these fundamental web protocols that are built in.
[215.48 --> 217.38] And that's the only thing that's built in, right?
[217.64 --> 223.32] Now, if HP1 wasn't already there, I wouldn't be thinking that we should add HP2, right?
[223.40 --> 224.12] There's other...
[224.12 --> 224.78] You'd be a module at that point.
[224.90 --> 225.42] Right, right.
[225.44 --> 225.62] Okay.
[225.84 --> 229.10] There are other protocols that are becoming increasingly more important to the web.
[229.18 --> 230.64] Web sockets, for instance, right?
[230.68 --> 232.08] We don't have Web sockets support in there.
[232.12 --> 234.44] And we shouldn't have it because it's not already there.
[235.20 --> 236.10] Quick is another one.
[236.10 --> 241.72] You know, it's a protocol that's, you know, starting to gain a lot of traction, you know, relative to TCP IP.
[241.98 --> 244.76] It's got a long ways to go, but it's a very good protocol.
[245.34 --> 253.60] But, you know, I wouldn't support any effort to actually get it into core unless it became much more fundamental to the web architecture, right?
[253.60 --> 258.78] So, with HP2, the decision basically just comes to, we already have HP1, right?
[259.08 --> 262.44] We know HP2 is going to continue in relevance, you know, grow in relevance.
[262.58 --> 266.38] It is going to be, you know, we have a lot of people asking for it.
[267.08 --> 271.86] It just makes a lot of sense to have it in core and have it available.
[271.86 --> 276.12] We also talked about, and maybe you can even end this argument, too.
[276.18 --> 279.98] We talked about how you define what should or shouldn't be in core.
[280.06 --> 286.26] And it sounded like you said, maybe I'll answer this for you and you can agree or disagree, but it sounded like you said around web fundamentals.
[286.40 --> 289.56] Like, if it's fundamental to doing web stuff, it makes sense to put in core.
[289.68 --> 295.98] But what do you think about, you know, keeping node core small or what should, how to define what should or shouldn't be in node core?
[296.34 --> 299.98] If it's not already there, then it shouldn't be there.
[300.08 --> 301.34] It shouldn't be added, right?
[301.86 --> 305.76] So, another example of this was URL parsing, right?
[305.86 --> 310.92] You know, we have URL parse, but it's fundamentally broken in a number of important ways.
[311.10 --> 312.04] You know, it's there.
[312.40 --> 314.46] You know, it fundamentally works.
[315.08 --> 320.42] But there's quite a few use cases where URL parse just doesn't function correctly.
[320.50 --> 323.14] So, we added a new whatwg URL parser.
[323.42 --> 328.88] You know, it's the same parsing API that you use in the browser for, you know, new URL and that kind of thing.
[328.88 --> 331.52] So, now we have two URL parsers in core, right?
[331.52 --> 336.02] And there was a big debate whether that should just go out as a separate module or, you know, does it belong in core?
[336.18 --> 338.48] And that question's still not completely settled.
[338.78 --> 343.76] The only reason that would be added to core is because URL parsing is already in core.
[343.96 --> 344.12] Right.
[344.34 --> 344.58] Right.
[344.58 --> 354.86] And I think that is the key distinction that, you know, we're not adding something that's brand new that doesn't already exist as part of the platform.
[355.00 --> 357.30] We're just evolving what's already there.
[357.84 --> 358.28] Right.
[358.36 --> 360.90] So, that's where I think we draw the line.
[360.90 --> 369.68] So, for those who may not be as familiar as you might be with Node Core, what exactly makes up Node Core to make you say don't add more to it, just keep things in modules?
[369.68 --> 379.12] So, the basic protocol supports, you have DNS, you have UDP, TCP, TLS, HP, right?
[379.46 --> 383.92] These fundamentals of just basic web application programming, right?
[384.48 --> 386.12] That is what core is to me.
[386.18 --> 387.88] Now, there are things that are in support of that.
[388.02 --> 391.58] You know, obviously, we have to have, you know, a file system I.O., right?
[391.58 --> 397.34] We have to have an inventing system, buffer, right, for just basic data management.
[397.80 --> 405.82] I view those as being more kind of utility capabilities, right, in support of the web platform capabilities that are there.
[406.72 --> 410.04] To me, that is a large part of what Node is.
[410.16 --> 417.64] And if you look at all the different use cases where Node is being used, those are still the fundamental things that are being used the most, right?
[417.64 --> 425.70] You know, even if you look at Electron, you know, those are basically web applications, right, that are bundled into a native app, right?
[425.92 --> 426.00] Right.
[427.30 --> 427.74] Yeah.
[428.14 --> 433.72] You cannot get away from those fundamental pieces of that basic protocol support.
[434.18 --> 436.26] And that, to me, is what defines Node.
[436.78 --> 437.94] It's almost what you said.
[438.26 --> 439.72] I said you said, but you said it.
[439.82 --> 439.96] Yeah.
[439.98 --> 440.52] Web fundamentals.
[440.84 --> 441.44] Web fundamentals, right.
[441.46 --> 443.28] If it's around that, it belongs in core.
[443.54 --> 443.86] Otherwise.
[444.36 --> 444.60] Right.
[444.98 --> 446.68] Otherwise, you know, put it out to the ecosystem, yeah.
[446.68 --> 449.06] So, you're working on H2.
[450.18 --> 452.30] What's interesting about H2 for the Node community?
[453.54 --> 456.80] That it's actually a very different protocol than H1.
[457.58 --> 458.02] Yeah.
[458.02 --> 464.08] You know, it has the same name, but that, too, is really, really important.
[464.66 --> 469.68] The fact that it uses a binary framing instead of a text framing, right, you know, and just line delimination.
[469.68 --> 485.56] Stateful header compression is, you know, adds an interesting dimension of there's a whole lot more state management that has to occur over long-lived sockets that just doesn't exist currently in Node.
[485.56 --> 489.16] And when you're dealing with, you know, with H1.
[489.16 --> 498.22] You know, with the header compression and the multiplexing and stuff that the protocol enables, you can get much more efficient use of your connections.