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**Gerhard Lazu:** So in the account -- |
**Jerod Santo:** It's looking like maybe it was me, but I haven't touched anything, so I don't know what's going on. It could be worse than we think. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It could be a bit flip. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** So we had two DNS tokens, one was for the old setup and one was for the new setup. The one for the old setup I have deleted, because we just didn't need it... And then we had three DNS tokens left. One of them disappeared. It's no longer there. And that was the one that was used by cert-manager to ren... |
Now, I've found out about this by just looking through K9s what is happening with the different jobs. There's jobs which are failing, that are meant to renew things. It's not the best setup, so the first thing which I've done, I've set up an alert in Grafana Cloud, when the DNS expires in less than two weeks, or in act... |
So what I would like to do is first of all capture this problem in a way that we can refer back to it, and also fix it in a way that we also can refer back to it, like how did we fix it; what went into it, what was added, so that this doesn't happen again. And adding that alert was one of the actions that I took even b... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Was it called an access token? |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So on June 19th -- they have an activity log. This is actually kind of important for -- I think this is super-important for services that have multiple people doing things that are important, that could break things, essentially... Have an activity log of things that happened - deletions, additions.... |
**Jerod Santo:** So we don't know what happened. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, we do, for the past 30 days. So on June 19th, because I'm the only user, it says "Adam deleted it." So I guess I "deleted" it, but it was not me. |
**Jerod Santo:** Hah, so it was you. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** No, that was actually me... But the token which I deleted was the one for the old infrastructure. There were two tokens. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[24:07\] I see, okay. So this happened -- do you know when, roughly? Can you assume at least? |
**Gerhard Lazu:** June 19th sounds right. But a single token was deleted and we had two. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, okay. So it shows a single token being deleted June 19th, at an abnormal time for me to do any deletions. I think Jerod as well. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah, that was me. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** If this is Central timezone, because that's where I'm at, I'm in the site, it's 7 in the morning. Yeah, 7:16 in the morning. I'm definitely not deleting things at that time besides Z's in my brain. I don't get up that early. That's how we know. |
**Jerod Santo:** Maybe you accidentally deleted two. It was a two for one deal that morning. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It doesn't show on the activity log though, so that's the good thing. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I would maybe push back on DNSimple support and they can dig into it. And then 1) get a true git-blame on this, and then 2) see if it was maybe just an error on the platform side. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, I don't think I've done anything with tokens aside from maybe one of our GitHub access tokens was expiring, or they've made a new one and I think I rotated one token... But nothing to do with DNS. Not in the last month, or six months. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It'd be cool if certain things like this required consensus. You can delete it if Jerod also deletes it. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's like the nuclear codes. You've gotta have two hands on the button. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. You don't have to do it at the same time. You can do it async by saying "Okay, Gerhard, at his 7 in the morning timeframe (because he's in London) deleted it." You get an email, Jerod, saying "Gerhard deleted this. Do you wanna also have consensus on this deletion?" and you have to go and also... |
**Jerod Santo:** It seems awfully draconian for a DNS access token. That's why I think the nuclear codes makes sense... You know, like, you're about to send a nuclear bomb, you've gotta have consent. But I think an access log is good enough. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** I think it would help in the DNSimple log to see which token has been deleted, like the name of the token... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It doesn't say that. It's not very thorough. It just says "Access token delete." |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah. That would have helped. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's the event name. So some of the items in DNS have text associated with them, but this does not. It doesn't showcase the token, the first six, or anything like that. It's just simply the event name, in this case. Everything else is pretty thorough. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, I think we're rat-holing this particular incident, but the bigger picture thing in addition to this "We've gotta figure out what happened here and fix it" is how do we handle incidents in a better way? So I think this is a place where I would love to have listeners let us know how you handle inci... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Exactly. |
**Jerod Santo:** I don't know. We don't know the best way to doing this, or a good way... So what's a good way for listeners, if they have a great incident solution, or maybe they have one that they use at work but they hate it, like "Avoid this one"? Is it Slack, is it email, is it tweets? What's the best way for list... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah, that is an excellent point. Yeah, so however you wanna communicate - via Slack, or even via Twitter, we are everywhere these days. Everywhere that works and it's still available... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] Everywhere where you can get an emoji rendered, we're there... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** \[27:54\] Exactly. There are a couple of things here. For example, one thing which this reminded me is that we do not declare - and this is a bit of a chicken and egg situation, where we should absolutely manage the tokens on DNSimple site with something like for example Kubernetes (why not?), which c... |
I think that's a bit interesting, because then what do you do from the perspective of security? It can't give itself access to everything, and then delete all the DNS records. That's not good. So some thought needs to go there... But the idea being is that even like with Fastly, for example, when we integrate, we still... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, so where did those checks live in the system? Where would they live? Not in Grafana, I wouldn't think... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** I don't know. I think it depends. In Kubernetes you declare the state of your system. Not just the state of your system, but the state of the systems that the system integrates with. So you can have providers... I know that Crossplane has that concept of providers, so it integrates with AWS, GCP... I ... |
From a monitoring perspective, you can check that things are the way you expect them to be, but that is more like when there's a problem, you need to work backwards from that, "Where is the problem?" While if you try to continuously create things, and if it doesn't exist, it will be recreated, if it exists, there's not... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What does instant management give a team though? Because I think this came about whenever you said "Well, hey--", Fastly was down, we didn't expect it to be down; a majority, if not all the responsibility tends to fall on your shoulders for resuming uptime, which is incident management, like a disru... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** It has a couple of elements... But the element that I'm thinking about based on your initial question was having the concept of a runbook. I know I have a problem - great, I'm going to communicate my problem. So what do I do? And you codify those steps in something which is called a runbook. For examp... |
\[32:00\] So how to rotate credential? This is a step by step process, like seven steps or four steps, however many it's now, how to basically rotate a specific credential. So we need something similar to that, but codified in a way that first of all - there's an incident; these people need to know about it, maybe incl... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** So what are the steps that Jerod or even you can follow to restore things? Or anyone, for that matter, that has access to things. Anyone trusted. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** And if it's that simple, then maybe we can automate that. Some things aren't worth automating, because if you run it once every five years - well, why automate it? The ROI just doesn't make sense. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. It seems like it's pretty complex to define for a small team. Maybe easier for larger teams, but more challenging for smaller things. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** But I know that there are incident management platforms out there... Can we name names? I have to... So one of them is FireHydrant. The other one is Incident.io. I looked at both, and I know that FireHydrant for a fact has the concept of runbooks. So we could codify these steps in a runbook. I don't k... |
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