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**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And those cookies in the cookie jar would carry through to the \[unintelligible 01:08:21.27\] --next and whatnot, if you did it in that first part, in the get part. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yes, exactly. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Gotcha. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Then you can do a full login and get sequence in one command line if \[unintelligible 01:08:33.24\] good enough. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Sure. Where do you send people to to discover these features? For example, I will do man curl, for example, as Jerod will say, before. But deriving knowledge from manuals is difficult, let's just say. It's not written to a human, or from a specific use case, so I often find myself googling, or somet... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** It's of course hard, because there are so many ways to use it, so it's hard to cover everything. My idea or my vision is rather to have that sort of description or tutorial-like things to be documented in the Everything Curl Book, which is everything.curl.dev, which is meant to be more of a getting... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Is this like a living book then, in that case, where it constantly grows and evolves, where it's never really written, it's more like constantly in writing mode? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** It is constantly incomplete, yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay... \[laughter\] That's reassuring and also disappointing. Mostly reassuring! |
**Daniel Stenberg:** It's fairly thorough, but since the project is moving, the book will remain incomplete. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yes. I mentioned that earlier, too. And Libcurl Basics is actually where you have that --libcurl where you'd mentioned earlier; we're gonna link that up, so that'll at least give people the inroads to everything.curl.dev. |
**Jerod Santo:** Cool URL. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** We'll link up to the main page too, where you can dig and peruse as you like. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah, that's also new since three years. I have two new Curl on domain something. Curl.se and curl.dev. I got them late last year. |
**Jerod Santo:** Weren't you on hacks.se or something before? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah, curl.hacks.se, until November last year. |
**Jerod Santo:** But now you've got curl.se. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yes. And then I got curl.dev. |
**Jerod Santo:** Which one are you using? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** I'm using curl.se, actually. It's shorter. And then I figured it was more fun to use the se one than the dev one. I don't know why, but... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Is se for Sweden? What is .se? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Se is Sweden. So I got the se one first. Actually, I've been trying to get it for a very, very long time. It became available and someone else snatched it before I was able to buy it. It turned out that it was a friend of mine who gave it to me. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, that was nice of him... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, nice. They bought it on your behalf. Nice. Do you ever run into any sort of copyright issues in regards to Curl, considering domains and stuff, like people sitting on stuff that you shouldn't? Is that ever an issue for you? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** You mean people using Curl to download things they shouldn't? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, do you ever have to defend, I suppose, what you have as a Curl copyright? Is there ever anybody using it nefariously, or incorrectly, or downright illegally, that you have to defend? ...considering, for the most part, a one-person maintainership, a community around it, you'd mentioned the Open... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** \[01:12:02.07\] Very rarely, actually. It happens, but it's never happened big-time, and it's never become any serious issue or problem. So fingers crossed... It seems to be working fine. But of course -- I mean, I would figure it out if i had to, but I haven't had to do it with any particular big ... |
I mentioned that before, that there was once a lawsuit that involved technology that Curl uses in the U.S, but it never went anywhere and I don't know what happened. So it's never been neither copyright, nor patents, nor anything else has struck sort of struck us in any particular way. |
I was once contacted by a company called Curl Inc, that owns the Curl.com domain. It was very early on in the Curl project. They basically asked, "Hey, what's this Curl thing? We are Curl. What are you?" \[laughs\] And I replied, basically, that "Yeah, we are Curl blah-blah-blah", but they've never responded back again... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It kind of reminds me of that Spiderman meme where the Spidermans are pointing at each other... So you can have like one saying, "I'm Curl." "No, I'm Curl." |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, "You're Curl." "No, you're Curl." |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Right. And there was actually a point in time where \[unintelligible 01:13:20.08\] someone would actually mistake our Curl for their Curl. That's some sort of web programming language; I don't know exactly what it is, but it seems to be apart enough so that it actually doesn't confuse anyone. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I was curious because you mentioned domains, and changes, and anytime you have that, you've got separation between what I saw last and what I think is true, so you might have someone trying to leverage those changes beneath you, in terms of changing URLs, or Curl.dev, or Curl.se, and masquerade as t... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Right. I know that there have been - I don't know if they're still around... There are some clearly free-loading sides that have registered some Curl-sounding domain, almost some top-level domain... \[unintelligible 01:14:12.29\] then redirect to my sites. But that seems more like a really lame att... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, 23 years is a big deal, and we're here to say congrats, and thank you for making an awesome tool and sticking it out, and sharing your knowledge back. You are just such an example of someone having a hobby that turned into the full-time thing, and... It's just a big deal, and we really appreci... |
Is there anything we haven't asked you as part of this call that you're just like, "I just really wanna share this before we go"? Is there anything we haven't asked you at all? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** I think we've covered a lot of ground... I can't recall anything we've missed. |
**Jerod Santo:** I would real quick just like to encourage you to keep writing as well... Because not only the work that you're doing on Curl is important, but I think that you're writing about the work you're doing on Curl and about your trials and tribulations, and things you find, and even just the funny moments, is... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Oh, thank you. I try to do that. I think it's fun, and I think it's a good way to reach out with all sorts of things. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** When you're having a bad day, or you don't wanna deal with issues, or the mailing list, or something else, just write, you know? \[laughter\] You've got another thing to do, you know? Why not. But seriously, Daniel, thank you so much for all your efforts into Curl. I appreciate it as a tool, I appre... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Thank you. |
• Paul Biggar, founder of CircleCI, discusses his new project Dark, a combined language editor and infrastructure for building backends. |
• Dark is designed to make building backends 10x easier by integrating language, editor, and infrastructure. |
• The project aims to eliminate the need for tasks like setting up Kubernetes, serverless, CI/CD pipelines, and AWS. |
• Dark's editor is a structured editor that prevents syntax errors, allowing for instant deployment of code. |
• The project is still in development and lacks key features, but Biggar sees it as a tool for experimenting and building small tools. |
• The development of Dark, a programming language, has been a long and winding road, with significant changes to its initial concept and design. |
• The founders had high hopes for a quick development process, but instead, it took over three years to get to where they are now. |
• The language has evolved from a nodes-and-edges system to a more traditional coding style, while still incorporating unique features like liveness and immutability. |
• The founders have had to overcome numerous challenges, including finding motivation to continue working on the project. |
• They have found that celebrating small wins, focusing on user needs, and "doing the most motivating thing" rather than the most important thing helps to stay motivated. |
• The language is designed to be a multi-paradigm language, with influences from functional programming languages like Elm and OCaml. |
• It features immutability and liveness, which allows for a clear understanding of program behavior and avoids the need for deployments. |
• The founders are aware that the project is incomplete and that many features are still in the experimental phase. |
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