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**Gerhard Lazu:** I think it would help in the DNSimple log to see which token has been deleted, like the name of the token... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It doesn't say that. It's not very thorough. It just says "Access token delete." |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah. That would have helped. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's the event name. So some of the items in DNS have text associated with them, but this does not. It doesn't showcase the token, the first six, or anything like that. It's just simply the event name, in this case. Everything else is pretty thorough. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, I think we're rat-holing this particular incident, but the bigger picture thing in addition to this "We've gotta figure out what happened here and fix it" is how do we handle incidents in a better way? So I think this is a place where I would love to have listeners let us know how you handle inci... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Exactly. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[27:51\] I don't know. We don't know the best way to doing this, or a good way... So what's a good way for listeners, if they have a great incident solution, or maybe they have one that they use at work but they hate it, like "Avoid this one"? Is it Slack, is it email, is it tweets? What's the best wa... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah, that is an excellent point. Yeah, so however you wanna communicate - via Slack, or even via Twitter, we are everywhere these days. Everywhere that works and it's still available... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] Everywhere where you can get an emoji rendered, we're there... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Exactly. There are a couple of things here. For example, one thing which this reminded me is that we do not declare - and this is a bit of a chicken and egg situation, where we should absolutely manage the tokens on DNSimple site with something like for example Kubernetes (why not?), which continuousl... |
I think that's a bit interesting, because then what do you do from the perspective of security? It can't give itself access to everything, and then delete all the DNS records. That's not good. So some thought needs to go there... But the idea being is that even like with Fastly, for example, when we integrate, we still... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, so where did those checks live in the system? Where would they live? Not in Grafana, I wouldn't think... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** I don't know. I think it depends. In Kubernetes you declare the state of your system. Not just the state of your system, but the state of the systems that the system integrates with. So you can have providers... I know that Crossplane has that concept of providers, so it integrates with AWS, GCP... I ... |
From a monitoring perspective, you can check that things are the way you expect them to be, but that is more like when there's a problem, you need to work backwards from that, "Where is the problem?" While if you try to continuously create things, and if it doesn't exist, it will be recreated, if it exists, there's not... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What does instant management give a team though? Because I think this came about whenever you said "Well, hey--", Fastly was down, we didn't expect it to be down; a majority, if not all the responsibility tends to fall on your shoulders for resuming uptime, which is incident management, like a disru... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** \[31:57\] It has a couple of elements... But the element that I'm thinking about based on your initial question was having the concept of a runbook. I know I have a problem - great, I'm going to communicate my problem. So what do I do? And you codify those steps in something which is called a runbook.... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** So what are the steps that Jerod or even you can follow to restore things? Or anyone, for that matter, that has access to things. Anyone trusted. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** And if it's that simple, then maybe we can automate that. Some things aren't worth automating, because if you run it once every five years - well, why automate it? The ROI just doesn't make sense. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. It seems like it's pretty complex to define for a small team. Maybe easier for larger teams, but more challenging for smaller things. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** But I know that there are incident management platforms out there... Can we name names? I have to... So one of them is FireHydrant. The other one is Incident.io. I looked at both, and I know that FireHydrant for a fact has the concept of runbooks. So we could codify these steps in a runbook. I don't k... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What's an example of a runbook then? Let's say for our case, the Fastly outage, which is a once-in-five -- they're not gonna do that in the next five years. I'm knocking on wood over here... It would be smart of them-- |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Remember my certainty? 100% uptime? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Next week Fastly goes down. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Exactly. Don't jinx it. \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, given their responsibility and size, they're probably gonna be less likely to do that again anytime soon is kind of what I mean by that. But even that -- would you codify in a runbook a Fastly outage? |
**Gerhard Lazu:** I think I would-- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Now you might, because you have this hindsight of recent events... But prior to this you probably wouldn't. So what's a more common runbook for a team like us? |
**Gerhard Lazu:** I think I would codify the incidents that happened. For example, if we had an incident management platform, when the Fastly incident happened, I would have used whatever the platform or whatever this tool offered me to manage that incident. And as an outcome of managing the incident, we would have had... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I see. So it's retrospectively. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Exactly. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** An incident happens, it doesn't happen again. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Well, it may... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Gotcha. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** \[35:52\] Yeah, "This is what I've done to fix it." And anyone can follow those steps. And maybe if something for example happens a couple of times, then we create a runbook. But at least Jerod can see "Oh, this happened six months ago. This is what Gerhard did. Maybe I should do the same." I don't kn... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I guess then the question is when the incident happens again, how does somebody know where to go look for these runbooks? I suppose if you're using one of these services it gets pretty easy, because it's like "Hey, go to this service", and there's a runbooks dashboard, so to speak. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah. I think it's just specific to the service. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. And you go there and you're like "Oh man, there's never been a runbook for this. I'm screwed. Call Gerhard" or "Call so-and-so", you know? |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah, I suppose... But I think if you operate a platform long enough or a system long enough, you see many, many things, and it just progresses to the point that -- let's imagine that we did have multi-cloud. Let's imagine that Linode was completely down, and the app was running elsewhere. We wouldn't... |
In this case, for example, we didn't have this, but right now if the backend goes away, if everything disappears, we can recreate everything within half an hour. Now, how would you do that? It's simple for me, but if I had to do it maybe once and codify it, which is actually what I have in mind for the 2022 setup, I wi... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, because 2021 is kind of a STDIN your codifying the current golden standard. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** The steps that I would take, yes, to set up a new one. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, exactly, to get to zero, where you're at right now; this is ground zero. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah. In 2021, what I set up was fairly easy to stand up, because I changed these things inside the setup, so that for example right now the first step which it does - it downloads from backup everything it doesn't have. So if you're standing this up on a fresh setup, it obviously has no assets, no da... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Which is smart, because the point of backup is restoration, not storage... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Exactly, exactly. We test it at least once a year now. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You know, what's important to mention here is that this may not be what every team should do. In many cases, this is exploration on our part. This is not so much what every team out there should do in terms of redundancy. We're doing it in pursuit of 1) knowledge, and 2) content to share. So we may ... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Definitely. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** In some cases it's probably not wise, because you have product to focus on, or other things. Maybe you have a dedicated team of SRE's, and in that case, their sole job is literally uptime, and that totally make sense... But for us, we're a small team, so maybe our seemingly unwavering focus on uptim... |
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