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[200.48 --> 206.86] in different ways. The thing which I remember is that our response latency went down. |
[207.80 --> 212.10] You did some tweaks. Is that right? Or am I confusing you with Alex? |
[212.62 --> 214.96] I think Alex gets the credit on that. |
[215.16 --> 219.30] Alex gets the credit. I definitely know he improved the N plus one queries, that's for sure. |
[219.72 --> 221.94] Yeah, I even cost some of those. |
[222.34 --> 225.28] Oh, right. Okay. Okay. So you're the opposite of Alex. Okay. |
[225.28 --> 232.26] Yes, exactly. I'm here to create opportunities for performance improvements. |
[232.74 --> 237.02] I see. So that's the way it goes. Okay. So you're making it worse and he's making it better. |
[237.36 --> 243.74] And the difference is like it's zero, right? Okay. So we're not going anywhere. |
[244.08 --> 248.26] It's very important to have a stable code base and a very stable operation. |
[248.26 --> 255.80] It is. Right. So some of the work I've done with the changelog has been on a few things that haven't |
[255.80 --> 263.28] been released and a few things that basically housekeeping around how emails are sent out and |
[263.28 --> 271.20] to whom. I think and I hope that there will be some more stuff done with the meta costs feature I |
[271.20 --> 277.70] made. I had the opportunity to write a small DSL, which would be nice to expose to the public. I don't |
[277.70 --> 282.08] think Jared has put it into action. So that's a good time to shame him a little bit about it. |
[282.44 --> 287.10] Okay. So Jared, if you're not listening, it's okay. And if you are listening, what's up with the |
[287.10 --> 292.62] meta costs? I don't know anything about it, but yeah, what's up with it? That's what I'm wondering. |
[292.62 --> 300.60] Yeah. So, but it was, it was very fun to get a chance to work with Jared and the changelog code base |
[300.60 --> 306.96] in a slightly dedicated fashion. So it was a few months that would have been last summer that I, |
[306.96 --> 311.68] that I spent some time with this code base. Then I introduced Alex when I didn't have time |
[311.68 --> 317.96] anymore. And he seems to have torn things up. He really, really has pushed a few things forward. |
[318.34 --> 323.44] So he did. Yes, definitely. The, the, the Promex stuff, I think is the one that I got most excited |
[323.44 --> 327.62] about because it touches on the infrastructure side of things. It just integrates a couple of |
[327.62 --> 331.72] things together. So that is from my perspective, very visible and something which I'm very interested |
[331.72 --> 338.28] in to see how are things behaving. The N plus one optimizations improvements, N plus one query |
[338.28 --> 342.44] improvements. That was great to see as well. I didn't know that you're the, you were the cause |
[342.44 --> 352.58] for it. So I'm not sure how I feel about that. I think I only introduced one fairly chunky case of |
[352.58 --> 357.66] them. And it was mostly, mostly when you're doing development that it turned things a little bit |
[357.66 --> 362.90] slow to start because I was doing something, something optimistic and that didn't turn out. |
[363.52 --> 369.22] I mean, the, the key takeaway from this little conversation is that you are deep into Elixir, |
[369.38 --> 375.88] into Erlang, into, is it, is Erlang fair to say? I mean, you're on Beam Radio, a co-host of Beam Radio. |
[376.14 --> 377.80] So Beam is all Erlang. |
[378.26 --> 383.72] I'm very excited and enthusiastic about Erlang, but I don't write Erlang. I write Elixir. |
[383.72 --> 390.84] It runs on the same VM as Erlang. So all the Erlang technology benefits Elixir. A lot of the |
[390.84 --> 397.14] Elixir technology benefits Erlang, but it can't fully go in both directions, unfortunately. |
[397.88 --> 403.20] Mostly a technical reason for it. Yeah. But, but that's, I am very invested in, |
[403.32 --> 407.28] in the Beam ecosystem. So the Beam is the name of the virtual machine. |
[407.60 --> 408.74] Do you know what Beam stands for? |
[408.74 --> 417.38] So I think early on it was Bogdan's something, something machine. I don't remember exactly. |
[417.58 --> 421.76] Erlang, abstract machine. Bogdan's Erlang, abstract machine. |
[421.82 --> 426.94] Because initially it was Jam, which was Joe's abstract machine, I imagine. |
[427.12 --> 432.12] Yes. Joe, you're still in our minds. I know that you're not listening, but those that know, |
[432.46 --> 437.98] Joe Armstrong, the co-creator of Erlang, you're still in our minds. Thank you for everything you've done. |
[437.98 --> 440.38] And you shipped a great thing into the world. |
[440.84 --> 447.20] Yeah. The Beam and Erlang are absolutely wild. And it's, it's been interesting that through many |
[447.20 --> 452.88] years I've heard of Erlang and people have been like, oh, it's a weird, that's a weird one, |
[453.44 --> 457.98] but it has some really strong ideas and it has some really strong features. And it's like, okay, |
[457.98 --> 463.58] whatever. I don't really do FP though. It wasn't really in my wheelhouse. And I figured it was |
[463.58 --> 473.06] probably too complicated for me. Now I'm very, very keen to avoid working with non-Beam languages if I |
[473.06 --> 481.46] can, because there are, there's just so much you get with, with a Beam that you just don't have in |
[481.46 --> 485.12] other runtimes or that you have to work so very, very hard for in other runtimes. |
[485.12 --> 487.96] Which are your top three favorite Beam features? |
[488.46 --> 495.38] Concurrency and parallelism at the same time for essentially no extra effort. It makes you do |
[495.38 --> 502.28] concurrency and parallelism correctly and reasonably without tripping you into sort of mutable state |
[502.28 --> 507.94] and the dangers of concurrency and parallelism. So that's one. Then there's the whole resiliency |
[507.94 --> 516.32] thing, which is built on sort of the same idea or some of the same ideas where there will be things |
[516.32 --> 523.02] that happen to your application that are unexpected that you can't really catch with just catching an |
[523.02 --> 527.22] exception. Maybe the disc was full. Maybe the service you were talking to was down. There's always |
[527.22 --> 532.22] something to make it blow up. And it has been described as the let it crash philosophy, but it's |
[532.22 --> 539.42] not always the most, it's not the best marketing. It makes managers very, very nervous. But the idea |
[539.42 --> 545.86] that it's okay if certain components fail, the important thing is to have a recovery strategy. |
[546.28 --> 553.12] And this actually sort of feeds into, to the Kubernetes thing, which, which has a similar |
[553.12 --> 559.90] approach, but in a, on a different scale. And this, this sets me apart from a lot of functional |
[559.90 --> 566.38] programmers, some functional programming enthusiasts really, really like their types. I'm very, |
[566.38 --> 574.04] very glad that Erlang and Elixir are dynamic. Okay. Apparently there is a typed Erlang syntax, |
[574.16 --> 579.58] DSL coming from Facebook. I say Facebook, but it's really WhatsApp. I keep forgetting its name, |
[580.24 --> 584.26] but something Muscala. Do you know who I'm referring to? |
[584.26 --> 590.82] Yeah. Mikhail Muscala is the guy that, as far as I know, sort of started the effort or |
[590.82 --> 596.20] that's probably leading the effort. I spoke to him once in Prague. That was before he was at WhatsApp, |
[596.44 --> 603.52] but that's a super interesting effort. And I think that type system makes perfect sense for what they |
[603.52 --> 611.72] need. They're a very large organization, but I don't really find it compelling for building the kind of |
[611.72 --> 619.10] web apps and the systems that I do. I find type systems to be a little bit annoying. I've done |
[619.10 --> 624.10] some work recently with Elm, which has a lot of types. That was frustrating at first, but it was |
[624.10 --> 631.36] also compelling. It showed me some of what, what you really get with a, with a types first approach, |
[631.36 --> 640.16] I guess. So interesting, but I'm not sure I love it. So I'm very, very happy with, with having a |
[640.16 --> 647.74] dynamic language. I come from Python and PHP originally. So that's, yeah, the Ruby lineage |
[647.74 --> 653.64] of Elixir works fine with what I'm sort of used to. It was an easy, a fairly easy transition, |
[654.04 --> 659.84] all things considered. That is a really good top three. So we have a good idea of, well, |
[660.14 --> 666.14] why you like Erlang and which are the top three features of the Beam, specifically I say Erlang. |
[666.14 --> 669.80] When I'm saying Erlang, I'm referring to the ecosystem more, the virtual machine, |
[670.22 --> 676.56] less the programming language. So that makes a lot of sense. I'm wondering when you're done |
[676.56 --> 681.64] coding your Elixir app, how do you ship it? How'd you get it out there? |
[681.96 --> 685.72] So that very much depends on, on context. So I'm... |
[685.72 --> 689.88] Let's take the last one, last Elixir app that you had to, and whether it's a service, |
[690.00 --> 694.06] I mean, you can, you can tell me about it. How did you get it into, how did you ship it? |
[694.06 --> 699.64] So right now I've been spending part of my day setting up a Docker file. |
[700.40 --> 706.32] So that, that'll tell you something. So Elixir and Erlang has this idea of releases |
[706.32 --> 711.46] where you bundle everything, including the runtime into a nice little package |
[711.46 --> 715.90] that you can just shove into a server and start without needing any dependencies, |
[716.14 --> 718.40] essentially, or very few dependencies, at least. |
[718.90 --> 720.42] OpenSSL is always the trickiest. |
[720.42 --> 725.74] Yeah. OpenSSL and usually encurses, limit curses. |
[725.94 --> 729.88] If you, if you need that, but yes, I know OpenSSL, you will definitely need that because |
[729.88 --> 733.14] you will be doing some sort of encryption somehow, it doesn't matter how. |
[734.68 --> 736.62] But there's always encryption in there somewhere. |
[736.98 --> 737.32] Exactly. |
[737.74 --> 742.36] So I think releases are sort of my ideal for keeping it very lean and just shipping it to |
[742.36 --> 746.02] a server. But in this case, we're going to be doing on-prem deployments. |
[746.02 --> 753.74] So someone else is going to set it up on their own hardware. And my plan is for them to be given |
[753.74 --> 761.24] a Docker compose file, some credentials and just go Docker compose up. There I'm mostly using Docker |
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