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[294.80 --> 297.46] Well, we just give you, give you those Kubernetes objects directly.
[297.46 --> 304.68] So we've tried to avoid introducing CRDs, you know, and I think prior to 2.11, we had two CRDs, I think,
[304.78 --> 308.78] in total from, you know, two years of development or three or five years of development,
[308.90 --> 309.72] however you want to count it.
[310.08 --> 312.44] But with 2.11, we introduced two new CRDs.
[312.68 --> 317.82] So the way that it works is you express policy by using a set of annotations that you can set
[317.82 --> 321.74] at the cluster level, at the namespace level, at the workload level.
[321.74 --> 328.18] Or in addition to that, you can add these CRDs that basically specify the types of traffic
[328.18 --> 329.44] that are allowed to happen.
[329.84 --> 335.42] And that combination together is really elegant because it means you can express a wide variety
[335.42 --> 340.24] of things from like either a very open cluster that only has like certain exceptions, like
[340.24 --> 344.66] this sensitive service, you can only talk to it under these conditions, all the way to
[344.66 --> 346.38] everything's locked down.
[346.38 --> 350.92] And the only traffic that can happen is traffic that I've explicitly allowed to happen and
[350.92 --> 352.06] everything kind of in between.
[352.58 --> 352.68] Yeah.
[352.84 --> 353.08] Okay.
[353.70 --> 357.30] So that makes perfect sense, especially from the Kubernetes primitive side.
[357.38 --> 358.82] I really like how you're thinking about that.
[359.08 --> 362.90] But one thing which I really loved about Linkerd was the visual elements, right?
[362.94 --> 366.46] The dashboards, the graphs, all that stuff.
[366.54 --> 367.46] That was amazing.
[367.90 --> 372.02] So I'm wondering from that perspective, do you also allow some customization via the UI,
[372.02 --> 376.74] which then gets translated to those native Kubernetes primitives?
[377.08 --> 377.32] Yeah.
[377.38 --> 381.64] So one thing we've never done and probably never will is allow you to create those objects
[381.64 --> 382.22] through the UI.
[382.36 --> 387.20] So we've always wanted the UI to be a read-only tool that allows you to understand the state
[387.20 --> 387.78] of the system.
[388.02 --> 392.56] But once you get into like, you know, you're dragging a slider or you're like, you know,
[392.90 --> 396.40] pressing buttons to implement YAML, it just, it gets very hairy very quickly.
[396.52 --> 399.78] And then the security concerns and permissions and all that stuff.
[399.78 --> 402.70] So we've kept the UI totally read-only.
[403.14 --> 403.96] That sounds great to me.
[404.08 --> 405.54] That is a very wise decision.
[405.68 --> 409.70] And I'm sure we'll come back to this later another time, not today, but that sounds great.
[410.24 --> 413.14] So which is your Linkerd top of your mind item?
[413.24 --> 416.82] And this can be something that you will be working on or something that's, you know,
[416.82 --> 421.16] it's like a hard problem that you've been working for some time or something that you're
[421.16 --> 425.74] excited about Linkerd, which is outside of this release or outside of the features,
[426.04 --> 427.10] which is your top of your mind?
[427.10 --> 427.66] Yeah.
[427.80 --> 430.94] So for me, it's kind of a, I think it's a theme more than anything else.
[431.18 --> 435.08] And it's a theme that we didn't really expect when we were first starting to develop Linkerd,
[435.18 --> 440.68] but it's one around security around, especially, you know, security of the traffic in your
[440.68 --> 441.04] cluster.
[441.44 --> 446.70] So we came into Linkerd, you know, in the early days of the project, very reliability focused.
[447.02 --> 451.26] You know, our background was at Twitter and Twitter was constantly down, at least at the
[451.26 --> 451.68] time.
[451.68 --> 455.52] And so, you know, kind of our vision for what we were doing was what we're going to
[455.52 --> 455.68] do.
[455.96 --> 459.88] We're going to have load balancing and retries and blue-green deploys and like all these,
[459.96 --> 461.70] you know, reliability techniques.
[461.96 --> 466.62] And what we learned early on was that a lot of the use, I mean, some people love that stuff,
[466.82 --> 469.36] but a lot of the use of Linkerd was from mutual TLS.
[470.04 --> 470.44] Why?
[470.58 --> 473.50] Because people wanted to encrypt the traffic in transit.
[473.66 --> 473.94] Why?
[474.14 --> 477.88] Because either, you know, they have these regulatory concerns, right?
[477.88 --> 481.86] Oh, well, we work with financial data and like, you know, the government basically says we
[481.86 --> 485.22] have to do this or, you know, they just have security concerns.
[485.30 --> 486.10] We're running in the cloud.
[486.22 --> 488.60] We don't have any control over the network, you know, best practices.
[488.86 --> 490.60] We should maintain confidentiality.
[490.90 --> 493.26] So that was like our foray into the world of security.
[493.26 --> 497.98] And that theme has continued to develop, you know, through the policy features, you know,
[498.02 --> 501.86] in micro segmentation and onto other features, more types of policies.
[501.86 --> 509.02] You know, there's a lot more we can do in this area of how do you secure the traffic in your
[509.02 --> 509.28] cluster?
[509.38 --> 513.38] And it's a blossoming area because everyone, I think, is becoming a little more comfortable
[513.38 --> 514.04] with Kubernetes.
[514.20 --> 518.82] So the operational concerns are, you know, I wouldn't say they're taken care of, but like
[518.82 --> 519.38] they're understood.
[519.82 --> 523.40] And now they're in the world of, well, crap, now how do I, you know, I can run it, but how
[523.40 --> 524.48] do I secure it?
[524.52 --> 530.00] How do I make sure that, you know, if one node gets hacked, that like everything doesn't
[530.00 --> 535.16] fall apart or, you know, more likely if someone deploys a mistake, you know, it can't accidentally
[535.16 --> 541.24] delete our user or expose, you know, production, you know, expose sensitive information to the
[541.24 --> 541.72] outside world.
[542.10 --> 546.42] So that theme has been just developing for us over the past couple of releases.
[546.42 --> 551.04] And it's gratifying, not just because things like that are cool, but because people are
[551.04 --> 554.18] using it and they're getting a lot of value out of it, which, you know, it's kind of like
[554.18 --> 555.70] the end goal of Linkerd.
[555.82 --> 559.86] If no one's using it, then it's a little, I don't know, to me, that's a little unsatisfying.
[560.00 --> 560.08] Yeah.
[560.48 --> 565.30] I know that that is very big, complicated, meaty problem to tackle, which you're not
[565.30 --> 568.32] going to solve in a patch release, maybe not even in the major release.
[568.38 --> 570.64] It'll take many, many cycles to get it right.
[571.18 --> 574.50] And it's changing as well with all the new rules and regulations.
[575.02 --> 579.24] I know that this is something which you are passionate about because I've seen your blog
[579.24 --> 579.58] post.
[579.68 --> 582.20] I've only skimmed it, the one about MTLS and Kubernetes.
[582.54 --> 583.94] I intend to go back and read it properly.
[584.02 --> 584.66] That's a good one.
[584.86 --> 585.90] So thank you for that.
[585.96 --> 586.92] There is a lot there.
[586.92 --> 595.80] My top of mind is, can Linkerd 2.11 still do Linkerd install pipe kubectl apply-f?
[595.96 --> 597.04] Because that was amazing.
[597.26 --> 599.76] Like you can install Linkerd in your Kubernetes with Linkerd.
[599.90 --> 601.76] That just blew my mind when I first saw it.