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**Jon Calhoun:** Johnny, to speak to your point though... It always baffles me that -- if you took somebody to a soccer training, and you never got a soccer ball out, every would be like "What is going on?!" |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Right. \[laughs\] "Just watch me do this. You don't get to touch the ball." |
**Jon Calhoun:** It would be kind of ridiculous. But in programming, for some reason that sometimes happens. And there are some topics where you can sort of talk about things at a high level, but a lot of times that code is very important. And I know as developers we like to say "Well, we get paid to think and do these... |
**Akshay Shah:** How much have generics made you revisit your courses, John? |
**Jon Calhoun:** None at all so far, but that's because -- so right now, one of my courses, honestly, it needs updated more because of tooling changes. |
**Akshay Shah:** Got it. |
**Jon Calhoun:** So Go modules and some other stuff that. And it's not that the code is no longer valid, it's more just when somebody's in that sort of beginner to intermediate phase, it's kind of confusing if they haven't run into it already to be "Hey, this code doesn't work because I don't have a module setup", and ... |
**Akshay Shah:** Yeah. |
**Jon Calhoun:** So it's like "Okay, that sucks." But I generally don't try to do anything that has generics where they'd even be a part of it, because it's more focused on that beginner to sort of intermediate type grouping at the moment. I do plan on doing a little bit more advanced stuff, which is -- like, I have a ... |
But I think I'll use generics. I don't think too many people are going to need us to write generics. And maybe I'll have something that covers that at some point, but I don't think most people actually need to write generics very often. |
**Akshay Shah:** That's fair. Pretty much the only time I've rewritten the same code to generate a set of a given type - five or six times now. So I'm looking forward to getting rid of that, and just having a generic set type that I can cart around. That's pretty much the only data structure that I routinely end up wan... |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Right. |
**Jon Calhoun:** \[01:10:55.25\] I guess now that think about it, I do have a course that's like -- it's a course that's meant to cover some more common algorithms and data structures, and it's a free one that I was just... It's something I enjoy, so I wanted to teach it that way... And I'll probably add generics to th... |
**Akshay Shah:** Yeah, that makes sense. |
**Jon Calhoun:** And then make sure they understand it with like -- let's just assume we're using strings right now, and just write it that way. And then take the next step. And that partially stemmed from the fact that I know a couple people who've been in college over the last five to ten years who I have ended up he... |
**Akshay Shah:** That's kind of nice about the evolution of Go as a language... You really feel intimately aware of how at least one implementation of generics might work, because you've spent so many years writing code generators... You're like yeah, this really literally is like "I'm just gonna shove a string into th... |
**Jon Calhoun:** I'm definitely a fan of generics for data structures, and that sort of thing. I just -- I guess we've moved on from that debate, luckily, or I think at least in my circle it feels like we have, but... |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Yeah, I think so. Yeah. |
**Jon Calhoun:** And I don't feel it's been like this big apocalypse like everybody thought it was going to be... At least I haven't seen a million packages released that have way too much generic use. Maybe I'm getting old and don't have time to look for these things now. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** You're not trying enough things; you're not trying enough new things, Jon. |
**Jon Calhoun:** I mean, that's definitely true these days, compared to what I used to... There was definitely a time where I would have been like "Oh, gRPC looks sweet. I've gotta throw this into something and find a way to use it." And now I'm like "Do I have a real need for this?" Because otherwise, I'm just going t... |
**Akshay Shah:** That makes sense. I think I run into generics a lot because when you work on protocol buffers, you're also working on code generation. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** It makes sense there. |
**Akshay Shah:** So those kind of naturally come together, right? You're like "Oh, could I generate less code if I use generics here?" |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Right. |
**Akshay Shah:** The answer is yes, but... |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Yeah, suitable use. Yeah. |
**Akshay Shah:** Yeah. |
**Jon Calhoun:** Alright. Akshay, thank you for joining us and talking about everything gRPC and protocol buffers. Johnny, always great to have you. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Yes, likewise. |
**Akshay Shah:** Thank you so much. It was nice to meet both of you. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Likewise. |
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