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[2405.24 --> 2410.50] And it, it, it, it originates from a guy that literally used index cards, like a card catalog
[2410.50 --> 2412.22] to make notes.
[2412.22 --> 2415.36] And it's not note notes.
[2415.40 --> 2416.74] It's really index notes.
[2416.88 --> 2423.16] So when you read a book and you know, you're making notes in, in, in, in the margins or
[2423.16 --> 2428.92] whatever, and if it's a dead tree book, you also make those notes on a, on a card or you
[2428.92 --> 2433.46] just say, Hey, this page in this book is about this thing that I've encountered before that
[2433.46 --> 2434.36] I'm probably going to need.
[2434.52 --> 2439.18] If I were reading, say one of Michael Lucas's book about books about ZFS and it's like, Oh,
[2439.18 --> 2444.76] this is something that I've encountered in the past that, uh, I needed reference information
[2444.76 --> 2445.20] for.
[2445.38 --> 2451.64] So then I would write the words that I know that I'll search later and a link to where
[2451.64 --> 2454.94] that is or a note of what page that is in the dead tree book.
[2454.94 --> 2457.94] And it's like, Oh, this is in advanced ZFS page 37.
[2457.94 --> 2460.70] And this is the keywords that go with that.
[2461.04 --> 2464.86] And then when I'm in obsidian or anything and I'm searching, it's like, boom, here's all
[2464.86 --> 2467.24] the, here's all the things that match that.
[2467.30 --> 2471.14] And it's like, okay, here are my own personal notes of the times that I've encountered these
[2471.14 --> 2476.06] things and links to them either in document format or even in dead tree format.
[2476.06 --> 2482.38] And if you're willing to put your notes in a specific directory format, you can actually
[2482.38 --> 2488.92] link all of this kind of backlinking, Zettelcast and style stuff, link it together with MK docs.
[2489.08 --> 2492.76] And so this is what I do for all of my personal home documentation at the moment.
[2492.98 --> 2500.10] It goes through a drone CI, a Docker container, and then spits out just a simple, um, static
[2500.10 --> 2504.08] website, which then an NGINX container takes care of the actual hosting for me.
[2504.08 --> 2510.26] And the nice thing about that is obsidian has a sync service, which they charge, I think,
[2510.30 --> 2512.74] $8 a month for it used to be four.
[2512.96 --> 2514.56] And that was already in my mind expensive.
[2514.56 --> 2518.54] And then they doubled it to eight same for their published service as well.
[2518.68 --> 2526.36] So they provide all the tools you would need as a non self hosting geek to go out and publish
[2526.36 --> 2531.30] your notes and to sync your notes between iOS and Mac and Linux and blah, blah, blah.
[2531.30 --> 2537.62] But the nice thing about doing it with MK docs and keeping it all local is it's free.
[2538.00 --> 2542.84] And the plugin that I use is self-aware of all the backlinks that are going on.
[2542.96 --> 2545.58] So even in the webpage, it generates in the static site.
[2545.90 --> 2552.30] It has all the kind of clever backlinks to all the different subtopics about XYZ.
[2553.44 --> 2553.52] Yeah.
[2553.52 --> 2558.46] I think obsidian is one of those things you can, you can just use it like a dumb plain text
[2558.46 --> 2561.16] folder structure if you want to, just to get started.
[2561.48 --> 2564.96] You could also then jump in and start adding tags to things.
[2565.10 --> 2570.58] So you could have it appear in multiple places at once, which long time listeners might remember.
[2570.74 --> 2576.48] That's why I really liked Tiddlywiki is because I could have one note appear in multiple places
[2576.48 --> 2580.72] when actually the right thing to do is what Wendell was saying is have an index card for
[2580.72 --> 2586.32] that topic and then have like a list of all the places that that topic should appear or
[2586.32 --> 2588.78] whatever, like a cheat sheet for that topic.
[2589.48 --> 2593.82] But that's my point about obsidian really is you can start super simple and then you can
[2593.82 --> 2598.40] just add and iterate and everybody's note taking process and everybody's thinking processes
[2598.40 --> 2598.98] are different.
[2599.58 --> 2603.90] And I think that's what makes obsidian in particular different from all the rest.
[2603.90 --> 2606.16] It's, it's not really opinionated.
[2606.80 --> 2607.20] Okay.
[2607.30 --> 2612.68] The, the initial simple text editor is a little opinionated, tiny, tiny little bit.
[2612.92 --> 2613.32] Okay.
[2613.46 --> 2618.06] But you know, if you want to take it further, you know, for Hadir or whatever, you know,
[2618.06 --> 2620.38] that's, it's the only game in town.
[2620.42 --> 2624.02] I mean, I know there's log sec and some people really, really like that one, but yeah.
[2624.20 --> 2624.48] Yep.
[2624.86 --> 2630.28] For me, obsidian is the, the first mover advantage in the, uh, in the plugin space.
[2630.46 --> 2631.74] I like that you can build up.
[2631.74 --> 2635.40] I had a good luck with the, the get plugin also for synchronization.
[2635.80 --> 2636.66] Oh yes.
[2636.90 --> 2637.04] Yeah.
[2637.08 --> 2637.16] Yeah.
[2637.16 --> 2638.26] Oh, that does sound nice.
[2638.38 --> 2640.66] So that's how I trigger the drone CI container.
[2640.80 --> 2646.72] I've got a keyboard shortcut bound to command shift G that does get that pushes it to get
[2646.72 --> 2647.72] and then drone picks it up.
[2647.76 --> 2650.72] It also syncs every five minutes automatically when it's open as well.
[2651.06 --> 2651.50] All right.
[2651.52 --> 2657.54] Well, we did get a lot of mentions for notion, uh, L re or L re 741 boosted in with a row of
[2657.54 --> 2660.70] ducks and said, I personally use notion right now.
[2660.70 --> 2662.06] And it's so versatile.
[2662.56 --> 2665.62] I've been using it for daily work diary entries.
[2665.86 --> 2668.16] As I learned to do different programming.
[2668.34 --> 2671.14] I haven't tried its OCR, but they have an API.
[2671.52 --> 2673.52] So maybe somebody has built something for it.
[2673.60 --> 2678.50] I don't remember where I heard about it from, but also app flowy.io is supposed to be an open
[2678.50 --> 2681.68] source alternative to notion might be worth checking out.
[2682.04 --> 2685.82] Now, Alex, I know you gave a real serious look at notion, even though it wasn't necessarily
[2685.82 --> 2686.76] self-hosted.
[2686.76 --> 2688.12] Notion is fantastic.
[2688.90 --> 2693.34] I don't really have very many things to say about it, apart from the fact that I don't
[2693.34 --> 2693.98] own the data.
[2694.38 --> 2695.64] What do you think about app flowy then?
[2695.72 --> 2700.50] If it's an open source self-hosted notion, is that worth my time?
[2700.56 --> 2702.58] Do you think, or should I just not bother with this stuff?
[2702.86 --> 2704.66] You should take a look at it and report back.
[2704.78 --> 2705.86] That's your homework, sir.
[2706.20 --> 2706.92] All right.
[2708.20 --> 2708.88] All right.
[2708.92 --> 2709.32] I will.
[2709.50 --> 2711.38] That's the stuff that I get sucked into too.
[2711.38 --> 2716.54] It's like, okay, because I had a media wiki for some things set up and it was like, this
[2716.54 --> 2716.98] is great.
[2717.08 --> 2719.90] And then it got just large and complicated enough.
[2719.98 --> 2722.58] It's like, okay, now how do I merge this back in?
[2722.86 --> 2727.08] And so I still have a media wiki thing, which is like, oh, what was that thing?
[2727.14 --> 2727.84] It was like, oh, right.
[2727.86 --> 2729.06] It's in the media wiki instance.
[2729.14 --> 2733.12] And then it's like, I was like, I really, it's on the to-do list to fix that someday.
[2733.38 --> 2734.20] But I don't know.
[2734.20 --> 2740.54] So yeah, I think over the years I've accumulated a bunch of, you know, when I was on iOS the