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[460.84 --> 465.32] a high demand for it. Yeah. And we just GA'd a couple of weeks ago. So I don't have numbers, |
[465.32 --> 470.08] but I can tell you that there are new companies signing up for it. Okay. Okay. Can you speak to |
[470.08 --> 473.94] the excitement then? I mean, there's no traction net or to compare at least. Oh, there's traction. |
[474.18 --> 478.12] Oh, I mean, what do you mean by that? Is it so new? There's not a lot of details you can share yet |
[478.12 --> 482.86] because it's fresh. What's the response from those chomping at the bit to get access to this? It's like, |
[483.20 --> 489.84] is it a lot of companies desiring this? I think a lot of companies want to make sure the software they use |
[489.84 --> 496.36] is reliable, secure, and that they recognize that they use it, that it's kind of, I think the people |
[496.36 --> 500.12] at companies want to make sure they're fair. I always say like companies aren't people and they |
[500.12 --> 502.04] aren't motivated like people are. Right. |
[502.14 --> 505.36] If I'm like, say I go out of town. There's no emotion. |
[505.92 --> 511.48] Or there's no sense of like give and take the same way people have it. Like say I go out of town and I |
[511.48 --> 516.10] ask my neighbor to like come feed the cat every day. And when I get back into town, I'm like, oh, |
[516.10 --> 519.64] she did me a huge favor. So like I'm going to take her some apples from my apple trees. |
[520.32 --> 524.78] And so I take apples over to her and she goes, wow, this was like a lot of apples just for feeding |
[524.78 --> 528.36] the cat. So I'm going to make an apple pie. And she like brings me back an apple pie. And there's |
[528.36 --> 534.28] like this give and take that we take for granted as humans. Yeah. Who in a company, someone in a |
[534.28 --> 539.12] company has to do that because a company doesn't do that. Right. Our profit generating machines. |
[539.38 --> 544.06] And so the people have to like step out of the norm in order to do that. But people do want to. |
[544.06 --> 548.44] So we're trying to give them tools like here's your dependencies. Here's the dependencies of |
[548.44 --> 553.42] your dependencies. Okay. So all that stuff exists now inside of, is it like inside the sponsors |
[553.42 --> 558.58] dashboard or is it just inside of GitHub's like various tools have it. So we can help you |
[558.58 --> 562.18] with sponsors. We also have an Ospo dashboard for corporations where they can see what they're |
[562.18 --> 568.56] using and what they're contributing to. That's cool. And so what's a, what's a typical give |
[568.56 --> 573.80] out of a corporation these days? Companies would also like to know that because we actually had |
[573.80 --> 577.54] one company that came and said, I want to make sure that I don't look like I'm giving |
[577.54 --> 581.12] too little. Right. And so they didn't want to give, and they were willing to give a couple |
[581.12 --> 585.58] hundred thousand dollars, but they were afraid it would look like too little. Yeah. So I |
[585.58 --> 589.94] think we need to establish some norms. Right. So it's still kind of playing out. We don't |
[589.94 --> 594.30] know what a norm is. We don't know. The best indicator of that has been the FOSS Contributor |
[594.30 --> 600.50] Fund to some degree. Yes. And we just talked to Chad Whitaker, the show's out there. As part |
[600.50 --> 605.72] of this episode we did with Maintainer Month and whatnot, and essentially he did some back |
[605.72 --> 611.16] of the napkin math and it was like 2K per engineer to the software that they depend on essentially. |
[611.38 --> 616.14] So if they have 50 engineers, this is a round number, 2K, you do the math. |
[616.56 --> 619.28] Yeah. You could look at it in a number of ways. You could look at how many engineers does your |
[619.28 --> 623.92] company have? How many, how much money do you make off the software you build on it? |
[624.00 --> 624.26] Right. |
[624.26 --> 630.10] Like how many different software projects do you use? Like you could offer up a whole bunch |
[630.10 --> 634.08] of formulas and I think we probably just need to pick one and suggest something. |
[634.58 --> 634.66] Yeah. |
[634.72 --> 639.12] We had this entire conversation, Stormy. I really wish you would hear it. I'm going to paraphrase |
[639.12 --> 646.08] it. We talked about this idea of a pricing page that a SaaS company might have for them. You got |
[646.08 --> 650.46] the free tier, you got the pro plan, you got the business plan, you got the enterprise. And essentially |
[650.46 --> 657.60] we need an on-ramp to fair funding of open source, whether I'm an individual or a small |
[657.60 --> 663.98] team or a larger enterprise. The idea of fairness, I think they ask you all, get up sponsors, hey, |
[664.04 --> 668.18] what is fair, right? What is, what should I give? What's too little? What's too much? There's |
[668.18 --> 673.84] no real, I guess, documentation out there of what fair is. You know, if you're in this realm, |
[674.32 --> 678.78] maybe 2K per month is too much for you, but it's at least a good place to start. Maybe 2K per |
[678.78 --> 684.78] month or sorry, whatever the number is, 2K per developer. Maybe it's more like 500 or |
[684.78 --> 688.24] what is a fair number that makes sense for you? How do you quantify that? Give them some |
[688.24 --> 693.80] sort of, you know, algorithms basically to sort of figure out what fair really is for |
[693.80 --> 694.00] them. |
[694.60 --> 700.70] And it also depends on what the maintainer wants to, wants to be responsible for or commit |
[700.70 --> 704.20] to. I'm not quite sure the right word there. Like what if I wrote it last summer, I had a |
[704.20 --> 708.18] month off and I wrote this really cool library that solved a need for me and I put it out |
[708.18 --> 712.94] there and like, I'm done with it, right? Like I did it, I put it out there. If you tell |
[712.94 --> 716.56] me like it's being used in hospitals and someone's dying, I'm going to come back and help you. |
[716.68 --> 721.58] But like, I have another job, I have a family, like I'm not working on it anymore. That's |
[721.58 --> 725.54] a really different scenario than someone who's trying to make a living off of it, develop |
[725.54 --> 729.68] the library, wants to keep improving it, wants to hear feedback, wants to like help |
[729.68 --> 732.52] you however you're using it. You know, I talked to someone last night at dinner and he's |
[732.52 --> 737.12] like, I have a job, but like they're using my software and like I try to help them. I, |
[737.28 --> 741.28] you know, I, I look at their pull requests, I send them emails. Like he's in a very active |
[741.28 --> 742.26] role in his project. |
[742.48 --> 742.56] Right. |
[742.90 --> 744.18] That's, those are different scenarios. |
[744.64 --> 745.38] Maintainer guilt. |
[746.02 --> 746.34] Yeah. |
[746.42 --> 750.34] Not guilt. It's like you, you want to help solve the, you're solving a problem for the |
[750.34 --> 750.60] world. |
[750.60 --> 752.06] He wants to do it. |
[753.24 --> 756.98] But he, he would probably have more time to do it if he got compensated more. |
[757.30 --> 757.40] Right. |
[757.60 --> 761.78] But also he wants to do it right now, but three, four or five years from now, his life |
[761.78 --> 765.40] changes. He doesn't want to do it anymore. Now he gets the maintainer guilt of like, well, |
[765.40 --> 769.12] all these people rely upon me. I'm burning out. I don't want to do this. I got a baby |
[769.12 --> 770.26] now or whatever it is. |
[770.54 --> 770.86] Right. |
[771.00 --> 774.80] That's been a theme. That's a theme for maintainer month. And it's also was a talk yesterday |
[774.80 --> 776.42] about how do you do succession planning? |
[777.34 --> 777.56] Yeah. |
[777.82 --> 779.12] How do you do succession planning? |
[779.12 --> 782.82] I'm definitely not the expert. I could find you the speaker of that talk. |
[782.94 --> 783.84] We have talked about that. |
[784.04 --> 785.16] We asked a few people that question. |
[785.36 --> 788.94] It's like, uh, it's like, it's like getting a room. There's just so many rows to get there. |
[789.50 --> 793.94] Yeah. I think it definitely is building out your community and building trusts along the |
[793.94 --> 799.52] way. Like, yeah, you have to build, you have to put other people in positions of trust. |
[800.12 --> 802.06] So there's someone to fill your shoes when you leave. |
[802.20 --> 802.72] But it's really hard. |
[802.72 --> 807.12] That's the easy way to do it. I mean, not the easy way, but that's like the right way to |
[807.12 --> 811.58] do it, I guess, versus like one day being like, okay, I need a successor. Right. |
[812.04 --> 812.32] Right. |
[812.36 --> 817.54] But I haven't been preparing for this day at all. And, but I need one right now. And so |
[817.54 --> 822.98] what I put out a post on my socials and I was like, someone please take over this project. |
[822.98 --> 827.30] I think we could learn a lot from nonprofits in this space. I think they have the same |
[827.30 --> 827.84] problem. |
[828.04 --> 828.76] Okay. How so? |
[829.56 --> 833.24] So a lot of nonprofits don't have people on salary, like a lot of the smaller ones. And |
[833.24 --> 837.50] so if the person, volunteers, yeah. If the person running wants to like leave or go do |
[837.50 --> 840.32] something else, they have to have a succession plan as well. |
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