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2023-Changelog-Interviews-Transcripts

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[2212.84 --> 2213.78] Cancel, cancel, cancel.
[2213.78 --> 2217.42] Honestly, I think a lot of the discourse, uh, on that end of the spectrum has just gotten
[2217.42 --> 2218.32] kind of crazy.
[2218.64 --> 2221.90] Um, like the way, the way I view it is this is a really powerful tool.
[2222.00 --> 2223.14] It's an amazing new technology.
[2223.14 --> 2227.84] And, you know, it can be used for, for evil certainly as, as any technology can, but,
[2227.84 --> 2232.56] uh, I'm a techno optimist and I think this will largely be like positively impactful,
[2232.56 --> 2234.18] uh, for the world.
[2234.30 --> 2237.84] Um, and I don't really see it, you know, replacing, uh, programmers.
[2237.94 --> 2241.68] It might change the way we think about programming or, you know, software creation.
[2242.04 --> 2245.84] Uh, there's certainly going to be a lot more people that are going to be empowered to create
[2245.84 --> 2246.54] software now.
[2247.20 --> 2251.62] Um, and I think there, there'll be kind of a spectrum of people, um, from, you know, those
[2251.62 --> 2256.66] who, who write software, uh, just by describing it in, in natural language, uh, all the way
[2256.66 --> 2262.00] to the people who are kind of like building the, the core kernels, uh, of, of kind of
[2262.00 --> 2266.22] like the operating systems of the future that form like the solid foundation that, you know,
[2266.22 --> 2270.06] pack in the really important, you know, data structures and algorithms, algorithms and,
[2270.06 --> 2275.20] and, and core architecture around which everyone else can, uh, you know, throw their, you know,
[2275.26 --> 2276.84] ideas and, and, and stuff.
[2276.94 --> 2278.48] So there'll be like a huge spectrum.
[2278.48 --> 2282.80] I think, you know, we'll almost think of it in terms of like the way we think of like
[2282.80 --> 2286.22] reading and writing now where like, you know, you have many different forms of reading and
[2286.22 --> 2286.46] writing.
[2286.46 --> 2290.60] Like there's people just like reading, writing stuff on Twitter, you know, that's, that's
[2290.60 --> 2291.16] one form of writing.
[2291.18 --> 2295.94] And then there's other people who write, you know, long books that span, you know, uh, many
[2295.94 --> 2297.40] years of intense research.
[2297.40 --> 2300.34] And I think the future of code looks something like that.
[2300.42 --> 2301.96] It's the ultimate flattener.
[2302.68 --> 2304.46] You guys, you see that book, the world is flat.
[2304.66 --> 2304.92] Yeah.
[2305.08 --> 2305.28] Yeah.
[2305.46 --> 2306.06] It's like that.
[2306.12 --> 2310.38] Like for a while there it was outsourcing and now it's sort of like just accessibility
[2310.38 --> 2311.22] to everybody.
[2311.22 --> 2316.28] Now, you know, people who don't know much about code can learn about code and level up pretty
[2316.28 --> 2316.64] quickly.
[2317.26 --> 2324.86] And so the access, the catered access to have, uh, a patient, whether person or not, like I have
[2324.86 --> 2329.60] conversations with chat GPT and I swear, I'm like, I tell my wife, I'm like, I'm literally
[2329.60 --> 2336.74] talking to a machine and I get it, but we 30, 40 rounds back and forth through whatever
[2336.74 --> 2337.38] it might be.
[2337.38 --> 2341.60] And it's very much like a conversation I have with Jared, if you would give me the time
[2341.60 --> 2343.76] and patience and if you wouldn't get frustrated, you know what I mean?
[2344.26 --> 2347.08] And so it's a very patient.
[2347.22 --> 2347.32] Yeah.
[2347.56 --> 2353.32] Well, not necessarily, but you know, the world now has access to a patient, uh, sidecar
[2353.32 --> 2357.92] that's quite intelligent that will get even more intelligent, whether you call it artificial
[2357.92 --> 2358.96] intelligence or not.
[2359.04 --> 2359.24] Yeah.
[2359.40 --> 2364.40] You know, it has intelligence behind it, some knowledge and it's accessible right now.
[2364.80 --> 2365.56] I agree.
[2366.02 --> 2367.48] Humans are still necessary.
[2367.48 --> 2369.06] Thank the Lord.
[2369.62 --> 2375.40] Um, but wow, it's super flat now and a lot more people have access to what could be and
[2375.40 --> 2376.64] what might be because of this.
[2376.96 --> 2378.08] And that's a fantastic thing.
[2378.14 --> 2381.70] I think of, you know, there's that Steve Jobs quote where he said computers are amazing
[2381.70 --> 2384.48] because they're, they're like a bicycle for the human mind.
[2384.48 --> 2384.78] Yeah.
[2384.78 --> 2388.98] They allow a much more, I think it was drawing comparisons to like, you know, how different
[2388.98 --> 2393.82] animals get around and like a human walking is like very inefficient, but a human on a bicycle
[2393.82 --> 2397.78] is like more efficient than like the, the, the fastest cheetah or whatever.
[2397.98 --> 2398.26] Right.
[2398.34 --> 2403.76] I think like what, what language models, um, are, are capable of doing is instead of like
[2403.76 --> 2407.20] a bicycle, now we each have like a race car or, or a rocket ship.
[2407.34 --> 2408.74] Now we're still in the driver's seat, right?
[2408.74 --> 2411.86] Like we're still steering it and telling you where to go, but it's just, it's way more
[2411.86 --> 2415.12] leverage, uh, for any given, uh, individual.
[2415.48 --> 2416.96] So great thing.
[2416.98 --> 2422.28] If you know, you love being creative, you love dreaming up, you know, new ideas, um, and,
[2422.46 --> 2423.80] and ways to, to solve problems.
[2424.02 --> 2426.00] One more question on the business side of things.
[2426.14 --> 2428.56] How has growth been because of Cody?
[2429.42 --> 2430.54] That's a great question.
[2430.78 --> 2438.72] Um, Cody is, I, you almost would not believe it if, uh, I described it to you, but
[2438.72 --> 2444.44] um, Cody is literally like the most magical thing to happen to the source graph, go to
[2444.44 --> 2450.08] market, uh, or, or sales, uh, motion since basically when we started the company ever,
[2450.18 --> 2450.56] basically.
[2450.78 --> 2451.92] Uh, I've been paying attention for a while.
[2451.96 --> 2452.66] That's why I asked that question.
[2452.66 --> 2456.68] Cause like you've had trouble getting growth cause you got to install a server or go cloud
[2456.68 --> 2458.30] and then you got to examine the code base.
[2458.36 --> 2461.64] Then you got to learn how to search the code, which is all like friction points.
[2461.64 --> 2465.16] So, so one of the, like transparently, one of the challenges that we had as a business
[2465.16 --> 2472.38] is, you know, we, we had a couple of sub, uh, subsets of the programmer population that
[2472.38 --> 2476.02] were, were very eager to adopt source graph is basically, if you use a tool like source
[2476.02 --> 2477.72] graph before you want to use it again.
[2477.72 --> 2483.34] So if you're an ex Googler, ex Facebooker, ex Dropboxer, or, you know, ex Microsoft or
[2483.34 --> 2486.56] at, you know, in, in, in a couple of teams, you kind of got it immediately.
[2486.56 --> 2491.16] Uh, and then everyone else is like, Oh, is it like grep or is it like control F?
[2491.16 --> 2494.68] Uh, and we, we would lose a lot of people along the way.
[2494.80 --> 2499.88] I think with Cody, it's, it's at the point where not only does any programmer get it right
[2499.88 --> 2500.12] away.
[2500.12 --> 2501.24] They're like, Oh, holy shit.
[2501.24 --> 2506.62] Like, uh, you know, you just asked to explain this like very complex code and in English and
[2506.62 --> 2508.10] gave me like really good explanation.
[2508.70 --> 2510.92] Um, even like non-technical stakeholders.
[2510.92 --> 2515.88] So like as we sell to larger and larger companies, a lot of times, you know, in the room is, is someone
[2515.88 --> 2523.96] with like, uh, uh, I don't know, uh, CEO or like board of directors or, uh, you know, non-technical
[2523.96 --> 2527.82] someone who's pretty distant from, from the code, uh, traditionally speaking.