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I should point out that there's lots of different kinds of open source, and there's lots of different models, and they're not all going to work for all different kinds. Nayafia on GitHub has a great repo called Lemonade Stand. Our old friend, Nadia, who put together a list of all the different ways you can -- there's a... |
**Filippo Valsorda:** It's a very good question, because it is the most common objection. And it's a valid one. And as I said, I'm targeting a subset of projects. I also think that I am in one of the best positions to do this, I acknowledge that. And that's part of why I'm doing it. I realized that I'm in such a good p... |
There's a person who was going for approximately the same thing, to the point that they were formulating the same three value propositions, and they work in robotics. Completely in my blind spot. I had no idea that this project existed, it's not my ecosystem, not anything I know anything about. But this person builds a... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[50:07\] \[laughs\] Shout-out to Matt. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Yes. Who, by the way, did a lot of experimentation with making open source sustainable, so that's part of why he's top of mind. So I really think different projects are well-positioned with different markets, and different segments, and different companies... Although, before you asked what was th... |
And part of why I'm doing it myself is that I've figured that the only way to disprove the idea that that's the only way it can go was to show an existing proof of the model. I think that a lot of it rests on how legible - and we keep getting back there, don't we? ...you are. Because if you're just like "Hey, you shoul... |
**Jerod Santo:** It's easier for them to make you a vendor and sign a contract than it is to donate through GitHub Sponsors sometimes. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Exactly. That's exactly it. So yeah, I think there's a lot of projects this can work for; I think it's got to go in cohorts. It's got to start with people who are highly motivated, have a bunch of privileges, honestly, to allow them to try this. Part of why I can do this is that, as I said, I coul... |
So it has to start with people who can be less risk-averse, and who have a lot of the connections already, because we're still teaching a lot of companies what this model is about. Hopefully, over time, there's going to be more and more on-ramps and more and more projects this works for. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. Well, it's cool to see you leading the way, it's cool to have the proof of concept, right? It can work, at least for one person, in this one way... And let's see if it can work for more people in this same way, or maybe similar ways. Maybe the three things that you offer turn into four for somebo... |
And time will tell. I mean, you're still in your first year as well. So one of the things that will be a big testing ground for you next year, and prove to you how much value you're bringing is "Will these companies do it again next year?" |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Exactly. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[53:57\] And if it's super-easy, just like, yeah, keep it going, then that's like complete validation, right? Because now you don't have to do it in three months of enterprise sales either. You're just like "Hey, should we keep going?" and they say yes. And if they're all like "Well, we gave you a sho... |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Yeah, exactly. February 20-24th I guess there's going to be a newsletter, one way or another. And I'm thinking a lot about that, because I try to keep contact with the companies. One failure mode I see is that they just don't ask me anything. They're just "Oh yeah, go, do your thing." And then in ... |
**Jerod Santo:** "Why are we paying you again...?" |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Yeah. So I reach out, I proactively send them little summaries of the vulnerabilities when they come out... One company had a very good suggestion that I need to decide whether to spin up, and they basically wanted a sort of newsletter, but not like mine currently is, that just goes into deep-dive... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. Yeah, punditry, whatever you call it. I mean, that also scales well horizontally across customers, because - okay, you have to do all the work once, but at least you're doing it once, and you can send it out to all your clients as a value-add. Or you can just publish it publicly, on behalf of yo... |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Exactly. |
**Jerod Santo:** ...and so that has some payoffs as well. So yeah, I can see that being an angle, an add-on or an angle that flushes out this idea. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** I was just thinking the other day that there are a lot of topics that I would totally read, from every month to every three months digest of everything that happened. The OpenBSD world has sort of that with undeadly, which is just this curated executive summary of all the things that happen in Ope... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** And they know, because they work on OpenBSD every day, but we don't, because we're sitting outside of it. And if it looks almost exactly the same shape as what I do for these companies, it's because it is. I work on ongoing cryptography every day, they don't, and what things can I produce to make ... |
**Jerod Santo:** I like that idea. Well, we'll have to check back in. Definitely keep writing as you go, because you have had some success; as we said, it's early days, so you still need to prove out some stuff. To our listener, if you're thinking of trying out Filippo's model - I know many of our listeners are in very... |
**Filippo Valsorda:** \[58:02\] Oh, I read every email I get, and I get emails at every address at my domain, Filippo.io. So you can type whatever at Filippo.io and I'll read it. I'm not yet set up to help people one-on-one. This is very much something that I want to be able to do at some point, like give you a handboo... |
**Jerod Santo:** So as we stand here, I'm looking at the Lemonade Stand repo's Table of Contents, just the high-level categories of types of ways that you can make money from open source, and I'm just wondering where your model actually even fits in, because it's kind of -- so top-level you have like grants, consulting... |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Yeah, you have a good point. I'm looking at the table of contents too now, and - yeah, there's a bit of advertising and sponsorship, there's a bit of grants, in a sense... But I don't like grants, half because you are spending half your time writing grants, and that's how Academia ends up. And I d... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. Something to think about. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Yup. |
**Jerod Santo:** Because it allows other people -- it gives people permission to follow in your footsteps, if they can say, "I'm trying this, maybe the Filippo way, and it's these three things", for example. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** If I have to pick now, it would probably be something like professional maintainership. Do you feel like that's specific enough? Maybe not... |
**Jerod Santo:** I like the style of it. I think if I was looking at it as a category, I wouldn't know what it meant when I looked at it as a top-level category. But something to workshop. I think that's a start. I like the idea. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** And maybe some listener has a good idea and will email me the right name for the model. |
**Jerod Santo:** There you go. Send Filippo an email, or let us know in the comments, whatever; we'll make sure that gets back to him. Very cool. Well, I appreciate you coming on the show, I appreciate the work that you're doing. I always love when people have success, and they don't just hoard it to themselves, they a... |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Thank you, and thank you for having me, and for the great questions. I feel like you're onto the model, and that's really reassuring and encouraging. |
**Jerod Santo:** You bet. Alright, thanks again. It's been fun. We'll talk to everybody on the next one. |
**Filippo Valsorda:** Thank you. Bye! |
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• Sentry's role in debugging and resolving production bugs |
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• The host mentions CodeCov, a platform for code coverage. |
• The guest, Jeffrey, also known as GFee, discusses his background and how he got his nickname. |
• Jeffrey talks about his role as the head of projects at the CNCF, and how he's a community member first and tries to help projects and enable collaboration. |
• Jeffrey compares his job to a previous role at Inatec, where he would take specifications from customers and bring them down to software engineers. |
• The guest mentions that the CNCF has 160 projects, and 12 are currently being voted on to be adopted into the CNCF Sandbox. |
• CNCF Sandbox and project growth |
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• The discussion touches on the importance of open source and the CNCF's mission to enable open source projects. |
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