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**Gerhard Lazu:** \[54:03\] Yeah, true. Yeah, that's a good point. |
**Florian Forster:** Yeah, you can check a login page. I mean, filling in fields, pressing a button. It will work. But what happens if it's not working because the user has strange extensions in the browser, because they have strange proxies in their environment, because mobile connections are reset... So it does not r... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah, that's a good point. Okay. So we're still at the beginning of 2023... What are the things that you're looking forward to? ...for Citadel, for your cloud service, for what you do, for the space, for the wider security space. You can answer this whichever way you want. That's why I'm giving you a ... |
**Florian Forster:** We have identified some needs for our customers who want to have more control over their general user experience... Because currently, people use the hosted login page from Citadel, which can be white-labeled, and you can basically change everything, and customize it... But still, it's like the \[u... |
And during that phase, we will also change our login, because now it's built with Go, and Go HTML templates, and that's kind of not so beautiful as it could be. There might be a point where we change that to Next.js, to get like a more SDK-y approach, so that we kind of build our login with Next.js, and we will provide... |
So Citadel might become more of a headless identity system in one place, where we just provide you the means to have different components that you can deploy, or if you don't want them, you can get rid of them. So that's kind of a natural evolution path we see there. |
And the other big thing we will change in 2023 is we will extend our actions concept more. Basically, actions are -- you can invoke customized JavaScript codes in Citadel at certain points. Like, if a user is created, you can call a CRM system with some JavaScript code, you can fetch some information from there, and th... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Oh, yeah... |
**Florian Forster:** We do a lot of pen testing, and testing in general... And that's the reason why you can't really run it everywhere currently in Citadel, because we want to reduce the threat surface, to get our bearings whether the engine works, and everything... So that will be a subject to be changed in 2023. So ... |
There is more underlying stuff, especially around machine learning and things, because we -- I mean, Citadel is built in an event sourcing concept, so we have a lot of data available... And we want to give our customers the option to train data, threat prevention models with their own data, to compensate for signal-bas... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** \[58:28\] Yeah, okay. Okay. What about the cloud? Anything for the cloud that you have planned? |
**Florian Forster:** Some things... \[laughs\] |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Some things. Great. That's a great answer. We can move on. All good. |
**Florian Forster:** I'm not sure much I should already disclose. \[laughs\] |
**Gerhard Lazu:** No, no, all good. Let's move on. Not a problem. All good. \[laughs\] |
**Florian Forster:** Let's see... A thing I can definitely disclose right there is the -- we are strongly considering opening additional regions, because we see now where traffic is originating from, and we are considering to expand our footprint on that end... And also a thing that will land in our cloud eventually is... |
And that thing - I mean, the event API will land at one point in our cloud service, but that needs some rigorous testing to be sure that all the inner fencings of our cloud service work out well, not that customers see the wrong data, and stuff. So that's a thing. And we are experimenting with different CPU profiles in... |
So yeah, that's a thing that needs untangling... So either we can use resources better, or we can somehow influence to have more CPUs in there, to get better latency. Yeah, that's an ongoing experiment. We always try to wiggle out some things. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah. Okay. Well, that sounds like a very good plan for 2023. Let's see how much of that actually happens... As we know, the plans are the best. |
**Florian Forster:** \[laughs\] Yeah, yeah, |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Everything's gonna be amazing, and then reality hits, and then you realize that half the stuff you thought would work will be impossible. So that's my favorite - like, get it out there, see what sticks, see what doesn't, keep making those changes, those improvements, drop what doesn't make sense... Wh... |
**Florian Forster:** It's really testing things. And there is also some discussions around a reiteration of the pricing. For example, a thing we are currently testing, as well as deciding, is whether we want to give away a domain for free, for example. Because currently, if you want to have like a production domain wit... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** \[01:02:06.03\] Okay, that sounds exciting. Not as exciting as your takeaway, because I'm sure that you had the time to think as we were discussing this, about the one key takeaway that you want listeners that got as far as this in the conversation with us. So honestly, this was very eye-opening for m... |
So to me, from what I'm hearing is operationally, you're very advanced. And you've tried a couple of things, and you've seen a bunch of things that didn't work out very well in practice, even though the promise is there, and the marketing is working well for certain things... So you have a lot of like -- I think street... |
**Florian Forster:** I think the most important thought - in my space, to be specific - is don't think of the authentication system as two input fields and a button. Because that's plainly under-estimating the amount of effort in depth that goes into such topics. And so I would encourage every listener to always think ... |
And so I really encourage everybody, please use some kind of turnkey solution that's battle-tested... Even though if you use a framework from your language-specific thing, don't build it your own; you will hurt yourself at one point. And you don't need to take my word for it, but a general agreement in the industry is ... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** It just shows that your head is where your heart is, right? ...which is authentication, authorization... I mean, if you build a company around it, you really have to believe it that thing... So you're committed through and through. And that continues to be top of your mind, which is important. |
**Florian Forster:** Yeah, I mean, it's such a huge -- authentication and identity space, in general, it has a huge depthness to it. And it always feels like you can easily do that. But as soon as you start poking into the space, you will see there is like a huge amount of time flowing into it. I mean, the OAuth threat... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah. Okay. So it may seem simple when you consume it as a service, but there's a lot that goes into it. And if you think you can do it - sure, but there are dragons there... So at least just be aware of them. Just don't get eaten without knowing what you're getting yourself into. |
**Florian Forster:** Yes. I mean, you can always poke... If you want to make funny games, just go to a login page where you have a user, throw in your username, throw in your password, and if the response is coming back faster than 500 milliseconds, I can tell you something is broken already, because no solid password ... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Well, Florian, thank you very much for joining us today. It was an absolute pleasure hosting you. Thank you. It was a great conversation, and I look forward to the next one. |
**Florian Forster:** Thank you. Likewise. I really liked your questions. And you see, I'm still laughing... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah, exactly. So I've done something right. Thank you very much for that. Until next time. See you. |
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