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**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, you were saying putting on different hats. You were going from like founder, to sales to janitor... |
**Jerod Santo:** Because of enterprise customers. |
**Nora Jones:** Oh, you were asking how customers reacted. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Nora Jones:** Because we shared so many of the same customers, those customers reacted really well. They were already using both of us... So it's like a new integration, that will just make it work even better together, eventually like one piece of paper, no multiple contract cycles... And then the other thing is Pag... |
**Jerod Santo:** How did it work once you were on the inside with regard to your personal drive and initiative? Because you've kind of been to the top of that mountain -- like, starting a startup and building and scaling and getting enterprise adoption and then making a sale like that... That's like a huge accomplishme... |
**Nora Jones:** \[15:37\] Yeah, I mean, I've been reflecting on this a lot recently, and there's a lot of stages of grief involved in it, too... But I had been an engineer my entire career prior to starting Jeli, and so I actually had grief from being a CEO and not being in the code. I would want dopamine hits, so I'd ... |
So it's really interesting to me to have played all these different roles... So that's kind of where I'm at right now, is like I'm learning a lot. I'm getting to run pricing at a large public company right now, and it's fun, and it's challenging, and I'm just kind of enjoying where I'm at right now. I'm taking it a day... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So you have pricing, product, and growth. |
**Jerod Santo:** What else is there...? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's three jobs, right? But I mean, you're over it all. So you're over three divisions, or three different silos... |
**Jerod Santo:** Or are those just goals? What are those things? Are they goals? Are they divisions? Product, pricing, and growth. Are those mandates for you, or how does that manifest? |
**Nora Jones:** Yeah, good question. So the role I have is head of product strategy and growth, and I think that product strategies should really drive pricing, and drive how you organize yourself, how you ship your product... And so I'm really helping with the forward-looking roadmap, along with my colleagues, and tak... |
**Jerod Santo:** And is Denver like a locale, or is it all remote and you just happen to be in Denver? |
**Nora Jones:** It's all remote, I happen to be in Denver. There's like 50 PagerDuty employees that live in Denver. |
**Jerod Santo:** Really? |
**Nora Jones:** So there's a lot of folks here. |
**Jerod Santo:** Is there an office or anything? |
**Nora Jones:** There isn't. We always say our office is the brewery. \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** There you go. Let's go meta for a second, and give you an opportunity to get a drink. I've seen you glance at your drink a couple of times... |
**Nora Jones:** Sure. |
**Jerod Santo:** Lowercase m, meta. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Not the real Meta. |
**Jerod Santo:** I still despise them for trying to steal one of my favorite words, meta... Grok and Meta have both been stolen by billionaires, and I'm not happy about that. In podcasting there's an interesting psychology to it, because intellectually you know there's going to be listeners later... And whether it's 5,... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[20:08\] That's the meta point. |
**Jerod Santo:** I'm very well aware that there's some people here... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Y'all are there, right? |
**Jerod Santo:** We're happy you're here... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** We can barely see you. |
**Jerod Santo:** I'm reporting back that so far it doesn't feel yet like just the three of us sitting in a room... I guess because we're not \[unintelligible 00:20:17.11\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** In all honesty, I love this format. I'm loving it. We should do more of it. What do you think? |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, I think so. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** We should do more of it. |
**Jerod Santo:** I didn't want to be the first one to say AI... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I was going there. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay, go ahead. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, with you... |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Let me pull my notes, actually... I guess, first, let's start with this - obviously, AI is the latest breakthrough for everybody... |
**Jerod Santo:** He said it. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...and it's almost a mandate for every organization to somehow figure out "How do we leverage it? How do we enable it?" And some of it has been generative, some has been simple summarization... What has been your position with being in charge of product to think about this new tech that's burgeoning... |
**Nora Jones:** I mean, I'm thinking about it in a lot of different ways right now. I think every single company in the world right now is trying to figure out how to use AI, how to develop policies around it... And for B2B SaaS companies, they're trying to figure out how to monetize it. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Nora Jones:** And everyone's in the early days of it, but also everyone's kind of going through that, because that's how the market is reacting. There's expectations around that. I think especially within software reliability, my take is on focusing on when the agents fail, because that will be the case. And PagerDut... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Beautiful. I love that. Shift agent. |
**Nora Jones:** Yeah, shift agent. So it's things like that. I'm not a huge fan of AI that I feel like takes away the necessary human tasks, but it's like the things that feel tedious or boring. And I don't remember where this quote came from, but it was like "I don't want AI to make my art for me. I want AI to do my l... |
**Break**: \[23:03\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** One thing you said recently, and this is on X... You said "The complexity of novel incidents", which I thought was pretty cool, "will only increase." Can you describe that? |
**Nora Jones:** Yeah. I mean, we are going to have incidents that we have no idea how to predict right now, and they are going to involve things that no one internally wrote. And so we also have to figure out how to debug them, and I think that is going to be challenging. I think the level of incidents we have are goin... |
I even saw... Someone was using -- I think it was Repl.it. And Repl.it deleted the entire codebase during an incident. It was like a new -- and the agent's apologizing, like "Oh yeah, sorry, I really shouldn't have done that." \[laughs\] |
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