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**Thorsten Ball:** It was me. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, it was you? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[32:08\] Was it you?! |
**Thorsten Ball:** Yeah, it was me. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You wrote all this. Okay, so I'm gonna read your words then. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. Now you're talking to the right guy. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, Beyang credited Quinn, and you're crediting yourself. Let me read the words, confirm that it is for sure you. |
**Thorsten Ball:** It's awkward, but it's true. |
**Jerod Santo:** Awkward, but true. I believe you.. |
**Thorsten Ball:** Let's get Quinn on the line... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay. It says -- and this is older, because the website has changed. I had to go use the Wayback Machine. Thankfully, that still exists... And I'm able to actually see back to like last month, or earlier this month, or something like that. So the heading says "Everything is changing." And it says "W... |
I'm not going to read the whole page, because we should -- it missed a few more lines. But really good copy, for one. Very profound. And then you mentioned how you and Quinn have been working on this, and kind of chatting back and forth, like "This is what it did today..." He says that, and you say that... What exactly... |
**Thorsten Ball:** Yeah. So first of all, thank you for the compliment on the copy. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Amazing copy. |
**Thorsten Ball:** This is a dramatic reading of my copy that I -- |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, does that feel good? |
**Thorsten Ball:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It was really good. I mean, the reading, as well as the copy. |
**Thorsten Ball:** Yeah, the reading was excellent. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Can I read the rest of it, actually? Now that I think of it, there's only a few more lines... |
**Thorsten Ball:** Go ahead. |
**Jerod Santo:** Finish it off, man... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. It says "It's all going to change. Amp is embracing it." So that's what Amp is. "Our way of keeping up? Shipping. |
We add and remove every day. We're building for where these models are going. If that means Amp will look completely different in three months, so be it." |
It's like this -- it's almost like a rap song. It's like this anthem against this \[unintelligible 00:34:21.07\] away. And it goes on to say "If you want long-term support and the same UI in 2032, if you want to spend a maximum of 20 bucks per month, Amp is not for you. If you want to find out where this is all going, ... |
**Thorsten Ball:** Yeah, I think -- so I didn't have a rap song in mind. It was more like '60s, like the Rolex copy, or whatever... You know, like the magazine advertised. But I think this "Come with us" thing builds on this idea that we've had, that is -- you know, I said this to Quinn and Beyang, that I want to sprea... |
\[36:04\] The subtitle of the blog post is "The emperor has no clothes", because a lot of the copy from other AI software is this "AI, magic... It knows everything about you... It's going to replace you, and it's going to replace your job, and whatever you're doing." And for me, the fascinating bit is that these are in... |
And to go back to your question, like "What does it look like in practice?", when Quinn and I started building this -- so Amp started out as the VS Code extension, and it's written in a standard web stack, in VS Code, the sidebars is usually a web view, so in our case we use Svelte for this... And what we would do is w... |
And then you're sitting there, and you send a message to Quinn and you go "You won't believe what just happened...! It used the browser and took screenshots, and then it ran into an error and it figured out how to fix this error, and it got the diagnostics..." |
It's just this excitement of seeing -- when you put it on the right tracks... An image I use is that you cannot just scream at an agent and say "Fix this issue that I have." What you have to do is you kind of have to set some rails, and say "Here's a file. Here's an example file. Here's how you get feedback about your ... |
And there was another thing where -- we at the same time started sending so many DMs back and forth, that I was on a bike ride, and I was listening to another podcast, and they were also talking about agents... And I'm like "Oh yeah, we should do this, and this, and this..." I got so excited I stopped the bike and I se... |
And in that first episode, I described something that I also couldn't shut up about. And that was - I was working with Amp on the right as the assistant on Amp itself, and I was refactoring some tests. And what I was doing was, you know, standard TypeScript tests, with like this describe, and test, test, test, test... ... |
\[40:20\] So I started to type out a prompt to the agent. I said, "I want you to rebuild the feature that records the keystrokes. Like, once you hit Record, it should record the keystrokes that you make in the editor." And then when I stop recording, it generates a prompt, and sends it to the agents. It's like "Here's ... |
And I sent this off to the agent, and the agent went off, and as they say, one-shotted it. It went off and it actually built something... And I was like "Surely this isn't gonna work." So I've pulled up the debugged build, I start modifying -- no, I start the recording command, and it shows like a little recording icon... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Get out of here... |
**Thorsten Ball:** And it went and did it. Yeah, exactly. So then I sent Quinn a message, like "Dude, we've gotta record the podcast. This is crazy." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[laughs\] |
**Thorsten Ball:** You know, is this something that you would use every two minutes? No. Is it like a little feature that I built in 50 minutes? Yes. Is it amazing? 100%. The ability that you can just build a tiny feature by just describing it roughly, it comes back and it works... And then this mind-blowing thing of s... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** They... |
**Thorsten Ball:** They can make sense of 160 characters, and say "Okay, this is what you're trying to do here." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Couldn't you make the same sense as a human, though? I know this is amazing, I'm not arguing against this... But what are you arguing for by saying they can comprehend 160 lines of code? |
**Thorsten Ball:** Well, as a human, yeah, you could. If I give you 160 lines of one characters, you could. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** For sure. It just takes a little longer, maybe. |
**Thorsten Ball:** It takes a little longer, that's what I'm saying. But that's the other thing, where you can sometimes just paste some error messages in that are not formatted. And if you do this with a human, they're like "What is this?" And then you realize, "Oh, it's one file path broken up into four lines, and no... |
**Jerod Santo:** It's like their bread and butter. That's what they're good at. |
**Thorsten Ball:** Yeah, yeah. Making sense of text. And then the other thing is you can sometimes send them like the ROT13-encoded text or something, and talk to them in that... |
**Jerod Santo:** Just to troll it, or why? |
**Thorsten Ball:** Yeah, but they get it. Sometimes they get it, and they're like "Oh, this is ROT13-encoded", and reply also encoded back. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh. It's a trollback. |
**Thorsten Ball:** They're really like us in some sense, but they're also strange... |
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