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• Plans to refine Edit Prediction and collect user data to improve the feature |
• Future plans for extensibility and integration with other tools and agents |
• Shift in business model from teams to agents and focus on quality of life improvements |
• Launching a paid version of the development environment with AI features |
• Offering a free tier and a paid subscription for intensive users |
• Charging for AI features, with a goal of making it a valuable service |
• Providing an option to use API keys or other services for customization |
• Addressing concerns about fatigue with paying for AI additives and services |
• Discussing the potential for users to leverage external models and services through API calls |
• Nathan Sobo discusses the challenge of using LLaMA for Ollama and the potential for future advancements in AI. |
• Zed's business model focuses on providing a convenient and controlled experience for developers, with a charge for access to infinite compute budgets. |
• Nathan Sobo mentions a partnership with Anthropic and plans to offer support for other providers like Gemini. |
• Discussion of model development and fine-tuning, with Nathan Sobo expressing hesitation to invest heavily in this area due to market saturation and high costs. |
• Nathan Sobo emphasizes Zed's focus on delivering a great experience for developers and taking ownership of the underlying foundation. |
• Revisiting the business model, Nathan Sobo expresses confidence in his vision for a vertically-integrated, multi-human, multi-agent, collaborative environment. |
• Discussion of the importance of providing a great software development experience for both individuals and teams, with a focus on vertical integration and collaborative environments. |
• The release of a new AI-powered tool, referred to as "agentic", is seen as a significant opportunity for growth and innovation. |
• The tool is designed to fill in gaps in the existing editor, making it more modern and useful for businesses and developers. |
• The conversation touches on the potential for the tool to unlock new capabilities and propel businesses forward. |
• The URL zed.dev/agentic is mentioned as a resource for learning more about the tool. |
• Nathan Sobo emphasizes his focus on delivering a good experience and his willingness to evolve and improve the tool. |
• The conversation ends with a lighthearted tone, with Adam Stacoviak jokingly referring to Nathan Sobo's ability to "make up a URL on the spot" and Jerod Santo planning to feature the conversation in Changelog News. |
**Jerod Santo:** Nathan Sobo back on the Changelog, here to talk to Zed. About a year and a month since our last time we had you talking Zed's secret sauce... Welcome back, man. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Thank you so much. Yeah, I always -- I really looked forward to this all morning. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's always a joy talking with you, especially because you're in the trenches. I mean, you are building something, assembling the plane in the air... I'm a user, I've been hooked on Zed probably since our last show, daily user, and enjoy it... And yet, it's like crazy times, I think, probably, to be bu... |
**Nathan Sobo:** \[laughs\] Yeah, yeah. Definitely. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's gotta be scary, right? |
**Nathan Sobo:** It's like, every other week there's a new... But I view it as a great thing, though. I mean, for me, in a world where everybody wants to fork another editor, having your own feels like a good spot to be in. I like that. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah... Because I've been attracted by some of these new ones, Cursor being the most attractive. There's also Devin. Now, there's also Codeium, which is then Windsurf, which is probably being acquired by OpenAI... So there's lots going on there. But Cursor in particular - being a Zed user, I'm like "Ac... |
**Nathan Sobo:** Totally. |
**Jerod Santo:** You'd think these people would be forking Zed, don't you think? Shouldn't they just fork Zed? |
**Nathan Sobo:** It's a little harder for them to fork Zed, because we're GPL-ed, I think. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right... |
**Nathan Sobo:** So if you want to build a closed source derivative work of Zed, you can't do it. So you need to stay open source... I still think you -- anyway, I don't want to encourage it, honestly. That's kind of why it's GPL-ed. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** "Let's not give them a path." |
**Jerod Santo:** "I don't want to encourage it." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** "Here's how you kill me." |
**Jerod Santo:** I wonder if it'd be harder to raise the money if you were a fork of Zed and therefore open source, right? |
**Nathan Sobo:** Right, you have to stay open source. And we're doing everything open source, including all the AI stuff we're doing. But I think we're kind of doing it the hard way, and we have been since before AI was even a big deal, of engineering our own system from first principles, from the ground up, from scrat... |
But my hope is that over time and with this launch of the agent panel we can potentially prove some of that out and then we'll keep going. That kind of really understanding and controlling and owning deeply, in a deep way, the editor from top to bottom will open up a lot of opportunities to do things a little bit diffe... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. I was going to ask you that, because I remember last year you were kind of excited about it already anyways, using it as a developer. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** But I wonder as a product person, as a business owner, do you feel like your hand is forced? Like, you couldn't work on something else really, right now, and stay competitive... |
**Nathan Sobo:** I mean, we are working on other things, to be honest. We've just shipped Git integration, and we have a debugger that's, I think, going into private beta. At the time this will be aired, I think we'll be in private beta. |
**Jerod Santo:** So you're multi-threaded. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Yeah. We have to be, I think, because we're -- but yeah, there's a huge opportunity here. I mean, there's a lot for exactly the reason you brought up, like "Oh, I'm a happy Zed user because I don't want to be writing code in a webpage dressed up as a desktop app." |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Nathan Sobo:** But there's something compelling about the ability to have a natural language conversation with a genius-level golden retriever on acid and have it write code for you, you know? \[laughter\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Hold on, let me digest that. A genius-level golden retriever on acid... Okay. Fair. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I can probably skip the \[acid part. \[laughter\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, sometimes you can't help it. It's going to go on acid anyways. Like, you don't get a chance. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** "Here's a tab for you..." |
**Jerod Santo:** Right? I like golden retriever also, because I do -- just in our last episode I was kind of confessing that I treat it like a little buddy... Which feels weird if it was like a full-grown adult person. But like as a domesticated helper, like a dog, your best friend, I don't feel so bad being like "Good... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[08:10\] You've been saying "Good job, little guy"? |
**Jerod Santo:** I mean, mostly when I talk to you about it. I'm like -- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Proverbially. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, I don't like actually type that in. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Well, it's just -- yeah, I use the word golden retriever just... I don't know. I mean, I shouldn't disrespect it, because it's incredibly powerful tech... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Nathan Sobo:** But I was just in there trying to get Claude to produce old text, new text, and it's writing XML, old text, open tag, and then the close tag is new text. And I'm just like "Claude, come on now. Why are you doing that? Why are you doing that to me? Why are you making me be so liberal in what I accept?",... |
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