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**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** But that's very difficult. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** When you have chosen a stressful path in life, let's say a public figure, or someone who's in Hollywood, or famous, for some reason; singer, songwriter, actor... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Expert in the field of anything... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...rock star of anything, essentially, whatever accomplishment may have been achieved - you kind of think like "Well, doesn't stress sort of come with life?" And I think it does. But then you've gotta say, "Well, coping skills." But that doesn't change the fact that you are or are not going to be st... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** \[30:14\] Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** But at some point, most people will snap, or hit their limit; there is limits to all ability to cope with something, I'm sure. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Right. But this is why I would say, like with the awareness, to recognize before you hit the threshold of limits, right? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. So then the question I suppose is either how to deal with, or how to reverse. So if you can push back on it, what's the antidote to stress, as one of the examples of the umbrella that is encompassed by burnout? You've got fatigue, you've got psychological issues, you've got cognitive issues, t... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Well, so part of it looks like going "How can I reframe?" We talk about perspective-taking, and buffering. So if there are opportunities to take a reprieve... Do I need a day off? Do I need to step back? Or we've talked about time-blocking. Which sort of things -- like, what do I have charge o... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Well, hopefully that's true. Right? There's the hope. Right? |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Hopefully that is true. Because just because it's a calendar new year doesn't mean it's the beginning. To some degree, it can be a psychological new beginning. It doesn't mean it's a literal -- I guess in this case it is a literal new beginning. But is that true? And that's the cynic in me, is chall... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Right. And I'm going to challenge you and be like "But Adam, it has to do with your perspective." Because look, for lack of a better way to say it, and pardon my frankness, but it can suck. But if I am only focused on the suck, that is not going to enhance any positive emotions, because my bra... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, I suppose what I'm guarding against is the misleading fact that it may or may not get better from a pandemic physical world, is kind of what I'm guarding against. Because sure, like you said, it may suck, but I don't want people to enter or prepare to exit 2020 thinking 2021 is going to "be be... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Right. And this is why I would say you can't only -- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Perspective. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** More perspective, Mireille? Okay... Here we go. I'm ready. I wanna hear it. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** \[34:06\] Okay. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** This is not just for me, it's for the audience too, so I'm ready. Go for it. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** One of the things that we are taught as psychologists when we're learning to do assessments is that it's never prudent to use one data point. If I look at one test, and then go, "Yep, you've got that", that I'm banking everything on one piece of information, which might, and likely often prese... |
I think I've shared before my sort of negative association in the past relative to cardiovascular exercise, because it's rooted in being a gymnast as an adolescent, in like 110 degree heat in Arizona... And so that has never been like "Oh, yeah, let's do that." And not to mention the not breathing, struggling to breath... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Moderation. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Mm-hm. So I can get excited then, and I'm like "Ooh! I get to do this today, and I get to -- I know, it's crazy up there, I'll tell you." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What I hear you saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, is you focus on what you have agency over. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** I do. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What you can control. And less on what you can't control. And in some cases, it might seem like you're distracting yourself. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Yeah. And I think too, taking away the opportunities around people showing up for a game... Like, whenever any athlete shows up to play, do they know what the outcome is going to be? No. And neither do we. So I can't look at my days and go "I know exactly how today is going to play out." But w... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. And I think that's where you have to really focus on what you can control, and maybe even say no to specific news feeds, channels etc. that might be triggers for you. |
I know one thing that I use a lot for learning is YouTube. There's so many things I've actually learned from watching or following certain people on YouTube. Everything from how to season my cast-iron skillet, to barbecuing a brisket, Texas style, for example. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** I love it. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[37:53\] And those are great things, right? Those are fun backyard things I could do with my family, my cast-iron skillet provides us nourishment, and I've got to take care of it so it's nonstick... And it's all these nuanced, unique, geeky things that seemingly are just okay, but that same newsfee... |
And so just essentially being aware of what pulls you in a certain direction and limiting your exposure to that, or completely denying it. Certain people might be that, certain aspects of your job might be that. It might require you to change positions, or move somewhere else, or making a major change in your life to d... |
I want to bring up this one thing that I don't think we mentioned on the show, but we did in the pre-call, which was sort of the piquing interest for me. It was a fella named Ben McCormack. Ben is a fellow engineering manager out there, and he wrote a blog post called "Simple burnout triage." And this is what really go... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Right. Hold on, I've gotta interrupt... Because I want you to say that again. Because I think it is that important. Because if we talk about a framework for our listeners, I want you to get a framework that he's offering. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. I'll say it again then. "If you take the pace and quality of the last two months of your life and you repeated it again and again, how long would you be able to sustain it?" And so that's what piqued my interest further into this idea of burnout. And I suppose more so being able to triage it, ... |
So this is a little bit deeper, but he says that when he asks this question, it tends to elicit three types of responses. And I'll just go over the titles first; we can go in deeper if you want to, but he says the first response is, "I can't go on like this." No surprise there. The second response is "I can make this w... |
And so the first one, when you read the deeper details of "I can't go on like this", the deeper details is the current pace is unsustainable, and we're probably already well into the burnout phase, where tasks are being dropped, personal needs are not being met, and everyday life has become overwhelming. So if you paus... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Yeah, but I think that that is what is critical, because why we have these conversations is really that's the hope that I want everyone to have, and what motivates me to keep going and keep sharing, is that - guys, there is so much hope around this, and there are ways; there's just ways that, ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[42:18\] Yeah, those boundaries... Very clear, so that you can bounce back. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** And this is why I think having people -- like, we've talked about the key people in our lives... This is why, and I have friends, and my husband, who are like "Hey, Mireille, let's have a little conversation." Or like "Are you aware of X, Y or Z, when you start to tip this direction?" And so i... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Mm-hm. What we said before though, about this idea of whether or not burnout can be reversed... And so going back to Alexandra's article, she talked about a different study that went deeper into the MRIs we talked about... I'll give the TL;DR. She encaps it by saying, obviously -- and it's talking a... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Yeah. And so just to give a little more context to what Adam's saying, and the article - the population and what she's referencing to four weeks was 20 students who are taking the U.S. medical licensing exam. And so what was their level of stress like, because they'd been in medical school, an... |
And you know, this is just it... Like, it really is around management. So we don't need to panic when things aren't working, but rather go ask ourselves, reflect and go, "What could I do differently? Is there some way or thing that would pay dividends?" Right? I mean, very much like we manage our money, manage our weig... |
I mean, could you imagine - you guys are all in the world of tech... Like, "Oh, I just fixed one part of the system and then it worked okay"? I don't think that's how it works, because they're always communicating with each other. Right? And so we want to enhance communication within ourselves and within our environmen... |
• The hosts discuss their decision to pause production of their podcast due to personal and professional complexities |
• They acknowledge listener enthusiasm and desire for the show to continue, but needed to take a break to recharge and reassess priorities |
• High-performance mindset is discussed as a key concept, including knowing what you can control and operating within those boundaries |
• The hosts touch on self-awareness, reflection, and evaluating patterns in life to make informed decisions |
• They also discuss the importance of repetition and practice in developing skills and achieving high performance, citing examples from athletics and personal development |
• Building skills through practice and mental discipline |
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