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**a proton is a subatomic particle, symbol p or p+, with a positive electric charge of +1e elementary charge and a mass slightly less than that of a neutron. protons and neutrons, each with masses of approximately one atomic mass unit, are jointly referred to as "nucleons" (particles present in atomic nuclei).** more details here: < *this comment was left automatically (by a bot). if i do not get this right, do not get mad at me, i'm still learning!* [^(opt out)]( ^() [^(delete)]( ^() [^(report)]( ^() [^(github)]( |
proton is feeless for users and more like eth than btc. it is shirking anonymity for verified identities and human readable account names and such. i think it is interesting as it is embracing legal frameworks to gain legitimacy and acceptance. |
why would nano not increase in volume just as all of the other alts have when the crypto market goes up? nothing specific to nano, but overall market sentiment towards crypto goes up, all cryptos move up. either way, i'm not worried about that. right now we're in an nft. once we get back to core fundamentals of actually using cryptos as a **currency**, i think nano provides one of the best solutions for that, which will cause more demand. |
a mining pool recently started using nano to help their small (1 gpu) miners save on fees and get daily payouts: [ this is one of the first great organic adoption stories for nano and as more businesses realize the potential to save or make money using nano we will see more businesses adopt it |
bitcoin has zero use case except as store of value. nano functions as just a good store of value, and can also be used as a digital currency unlike bitcoin. the only reason nano is not ranking up alongside bitcoin is because no one knows about it yet |
yes, i do. but i don’t think you do. so let me refresh your memory. nano has only been around for 6 years (oct 2015 inception). it has been under (almost 4 years). and in the first year and a half, it was less than .01. so you’re saying that based on the brief short lived price spike, most long term (more than a year) nano holders bought at the peak? so if you base nano’s future price based on past performance, does that mean in march 2020 you were concluding that eth and btc were doomed and would never recover their ath? or are you under the impression that they moved to todays price in a straight line up? the crypto game is not over. it’s barely begun. yet some seem to think they already know the winner(s). and the losers. |
lol. most people who bought nano around the old ath of , (4 years ago), have obviously sold off long ago. most nano holders of today probably bought nano around -3 years straight after it is epic dump from . anyone who held through all those years of crypto winter have diamond hands and love nano and probably wont be selling anytime soon. anyway, point is that nano was , so most people are actually in profit. |
what crypto didn’t tank? you surely know that wasn’t nano exclusive. |
tbh i'm not even sure bitgrail kept track of the wallets that had the finds stolen. it's been a minute since i knew the ins and outs of that fiasco. i used bitgrail for my first nano purchase (then xrb) but only after establishing a wallet to immediately send to. |
it is beleived by the community that the "hacked", (stolen), coins have been dumped through the years of 2018, 2019, and any surviving stragglers sold in 2020. just look at nano's price chart, you'll see the evidence for this... it bounced between $.75 and -3 straight years, everyone that is not a long term holder was definitely shaken out during that cold cold crypto winter. so it is fair to believe that all those stolen coins are back in circulation, now in other peoples' hands. so that hack is kind of in the past now, i do not think it is gonna affect anything going forward |
lost in this context means that people would've lost their private keys and coins would've been permanently lost for the entire human species. these coins weren't lost in that sense, they were just transferred to a criminal. but that entity still had control over them. this is an important difference because permanently lost coins make supply shorter, potentially increasing the price. |
thanks i will. i appreciate your write up here seems like a good hold. i guess we'll see what happens. |
alright i got some! downloaded kraken and got some. now the fun part holding it |
that was when torrenting began. now even bittorrent pays you btt for seeding. when a machine can mine 100s of different coins and earn today, no one is going to want to do it "to help the network". 67% of machines could easily be captured by one entity in this case. bitcoin does not waste energy, it gives iron-clad protection. |
look at wenano. lot of people donate their funds to faucets all over the world for free. |
well said. i myself paid several nodes (running the nano network) which i was using as "representative". this practice can and will further develop. what is not normal is to keep the old architecture of "on-chain fees". some nodes are ok to run for free, some other may require some contribution. all of this must happen organically, based on market rules and free will... same as for email providers. nowadays, advertising & other income streams are enough to compensate for a "free service" (gmail, yahoo). who would ever imagine a "forced paid email service" ?? and finally, do not forget that 1 nano transaction burns as little as 6 million times less energy vs its btc counterpart; that a single wind turbine can run the entire nano network... just to put things in perspective. |
sure, if there were dozens of people spending nano at their shop daily. are they? maybe they will in future, who knows! multiple ifs and buts multiplied by 10k+ coin possibilities. all early investors want to believe it is their coin"use case". is nano the only coin offering 0-fee transactions? no, there is no coin that is the only coin offering this or that. you know which is the only coin that is the first? yeah, that one. that one is the only one that has any concrete use case. and it is got lightning and taproot. altcoins are going to get rekt if bitcoin really really moons. |
one of the main reasons is that it gives you a secure and trustworthy interface to the nano network. when you develop or want to integrate it in a product, that is enough reason for me. |
bitcoin gained value even when very little of it was thistributed. nano could only gain value when almost all of it was thistributed. that's why there will always be huge difference between bitcoin's growth potential and nano's. |
bitcoin started having value right from the beginning, even when just 5% was thistributed. nano could not have had any value until well over 51% or 67% or whatever was thistributed. that's why bitcoin needed proof of work and it worked. |
the only positive i see from banano is the attempt to add privacy to the coin. the downside is the 'developers' hold most of it and are being opaque about the burn schedule. |
if there are zero fees, how do the people that run the nodes? |
bitcoin allows the same thing with lightning network. and without the risk of the network being down for weeks. |
i think you underestimate the power of simplicity especially in the crypto space. you think defi is going to take over the world overnight? defi has at least another 5-10 years of development, lots of regulation and mechanisms to flesh out before full wide adoption. the importantance of simplicity is it lowers the barriers for adoption when it does one thing and does it well. defi in it is current state is lending or borrowing to acquire more crypto, increasing the price. that's the only current use case and imo it is house of cards as it stands. defi will get rekd in the upcoming bear market. |
actually, i'm participating in nano liquidity pools, but if you want to pretend those do not exist, i suppose that is fine. it's also potentially the ultimate arbitrage coin. |
how is it 'faster' than 0 conf? how is it feeless? eco friendly. sure. so is bch! see, i can make up bullshit too. how is bch not decentralized? |
so no technical details, which you claim are common knowledge. can't say i'm surprised. |
i will never take option 2 if i cannot use it to make more money. i can deduct fees from my taxes. and i can use these other coins to loan against them . which is not doable with nano. guess why no big guys are buying into nano? because it is simply not worth it. r:r is bad. |
if you are using a free fucking product, you are the product. |
no, in fact i do not. someone is paying, regardless of there is no fee. if the chain is being secured, there has to be economic incentive for those who are securing it as they consume finite resources to do so which have costs associated with them. |
to me your theory sounds like wishful thinking, but i honestly wish you all the best. i'm not against nano, but i think the race at this point has been decided in favor of bitcoin. hope you're investments moon tho! |
wbtc can be used in many defi applications. it's not much but it is quite literally infinitely more useful than the zero non-payment use cases of nano. |
this is some grade a copium. |
see my post below, bitgrail bankruptcy custodian still has 4m nano, unlikely to be touched for a few years if mt gox timeline is any indication |
good point. thanks for the info! i guess it’s safe to say the 20% that is still being held most likely won’t go back into circulation. |
nice! next step you should download a wallet like natrium to remove your nano from the exchange and delegate them to a sub 1% trusted representative :) |
yeah not sure i understand the argument. nano works on delegated proof of stake. you can delegate your funds to a node. in order to overtake 67% of the network you would need to have upwards of . that is far from it being “easy” to attack the network. then, you would want to halt the network with a 67% attack, therefore eliminating the value of the nano that you hold? fees and mining provide no added security. they just cause delays and add transaction fees. |
nah man, back a few years ago i college i used to torrent movies and music & games all the time, no one ever wanted any compensation or payment for it. people seeded torrents for free for decades. that's a nice bonus if you now can easily get paid to seed torrents, but that doesnt' change the fact that from the beginning of torrenting people have been seeding everything for free. |
nano's use case is primal and undeniable, that of "money", that of "transferring value from p2p". nano has the strongest use case of any any other crypto besides bitcoin. |
>is nano the only coin offering 0-fee transactions? no, but as a decentralized coin, it is the fastest and fairly thistributed. >no, there is no coin that is the only coin offering this or that. honestly, there is. nano is best in class in every category for a payment coin. call me a fanboy, but this is an objective technical view. if you truly thisagree, describe what is technically important to you in a payment currency and we can match nano's technical attributes up to any currency you choose and see how it plays out. |
nano has running for years on nodes being run by businesses, investors and enthusiasts, the whole network trends steadily towards more decentralized, and has been for last few years. the model is actually working, no ifs, no buts, it’s working as intended today. |
node operators do not have *direct* incentives to make money. however, nano owners have an *indirect* incentive to secure the network by delegating their vote to trusted node operators which after reaching a certain threshold get promoted to a "representative nodes" and their vote counts. and if these nodes lose trust, they can simply be re-delegated by a wallet setting. what is brilliant about this model where node operators do not get paid is that the entire network is incentived to become more decentralized over time. whereas other networks, [pos and pow, have incentives to become more and more centralized over time]( (example: btc has just four entities controlling mining pools at the moment, ln requires centralization or running a node). |
people that run nano nodes do not make money. |
is ln feeless now? |
stfu bot, i hope your creator loses his left testicle in car accident. |
okay and? as long is i am able to make gains i am happy. also lending . like where do you think the borrowed money comes from? r:r is bad on nano. i have had nano before and i do not see a single reason why i should hold it right now. dog coins are doing better than this pos. nano will get rekt in the coming bear market too. who cares? |
i actually did not know that this is a thing. could you share me some links? also what's the incentive for these pools since nano does not have any fees? how are you getting paid for providing liquidity? |
google search finds only 1 relevant result in which it is just a reddit thread *asking* if they exist and zero answers saying it does exist. if one of you is pretending, my money is on you. |
nothing is made up dum dum lol. bch is not feeless and isn’t the fastest. it’s not an opinion, it’s just what it is. |
0-conf is not "settled with finality", and that is just a fact. and are you really unaware that nano has zero fees...? lol damn son, have you been living under a rock or something? |
bch 0-conf still takes until the next block is produced which is on average 10 minutes--completely unusable for point of sale. |
i already gave you the “technical analysis” and it’s literally a 2 second google search. dude, you knew that nano is faster and cheaper and you asked just to be a snarky doucher |
ah, the coin with the biggest fees then is clearly the best! you all be interested in btc and eth then. |
typically, yes. but i would encourage you to look at nano fundamentals to understand how it works. it really is revolutionary. there is no need for fees or mining when a network operates on an infinite amount of block chains, allowing you to send your transaction to the end user directly with no competition. there is no need for fees when others who are heavily invested in the network through using it for their own products and services are running a lightweight node to help further decentralize and power the network. you could argue that the node operators do have fees. probably around . but absolutely not required for you to run a node to participate in the network. i would also argue that their , therefore raising the price of the crypto they own by more than . open your perspective to the possibility that their might be a crypto network out there that is able to operate on no fees. it’s possible |
that is true w social media companies, or any company for that matter, because companies are for-proft organizations; so the only way they can offer a free service is because they are in some way, whether hidden or out in the open, monetizing the customer that thinks they are receiving a "free" service. but obviously this paradigm does not apply to nano because nano is not a company that aims to make money. there is a nano foundation, but it is not a company, it is not a for-profit company. |
look at this way…. someone is paying yes…. but the economic incentive to run a node is the feelessness of the network. the efficiency of the network is the reward. having a fast and feeless network attributes a lot of benefits to whoever plugs their business into the network, so maintaining a -100 per month node while they save hundreds of thousands on fees is a no brainer. look up what 2miners is doing with nano. google it. 4th largest ethereum mining pool, their users are saving thousands everyday from eth gas fees. running a node for them is no brainer. the network is the reward my friend take the nano pill |
lol yes the race has been decided, and the result is that bitcoin is not currently and never will be able to be a daily currency. some other coin will fill that niche, and so far nano stands the best chance of being that one |
you think nano has zero adoption? lmao. you have not seen the 2miners news recently? |
i bought at 1.50. |
>по оценкам nanolooker, около 21 623 312 nano неактивны. bitgrail paid me the equivalent after the hack, but in bitcoins |
nano is truly genius. people just do not realize it yet, somehow. |
i do not know these fancy terms, yet, there is 1000s of such terms to understand in crypto! all i know is that bitcoin is not hackable because of the amount of processing power behind it. many altcoins will get compromised sooner or later and there is just no time to check which ones are safe and which ones are not. |
that is where bitcoin and subsequent coins' mining changed everything. now the upload bandwidth and processing power are monetized, as they should be. uploading pirated torrents for free is one thing, but i fear those who seed pirated stuff for btt will see the law go after them big time. |
i’d just stop talking to that girl, she doesn’t seem to want to make the effort to understand |
i feel like most people who buy altcoins with research know that they are going to have big gains until they go bust, that, it is a short ride up that will eventually end and it pays to get new people in to increase their profits. anyway. there is only 1 real way to know which researchers to trust - someone like u should invite 1000 altcoin experts from various social media and give them . they cannot mention a coin without buying or selling it. |
nano may be 100000000x better in coding than bitcoin (which it is not). the fact remains that bitcoin has taken off and there is no way its market cap is going to shift into other coins. the more bitcoin moons, the more apparent this will become to everyone. |
it's working, and so are 1000s of others. but none compared to bitcoin, that is my point. |
so why would someone want to run a node? just for the “funs”? cuz he really likes nano? |
when you're borrowing to buy more crypto, that inherently increases the price due to higher demand. you're clearly just in crypto for the gains so have fun investing in dog coins. i would not try to convince you otherwise. |
to be fair, they are still relatively early. but yeah, you can participate in them at bnswapyz. you get a percentage of the fee used to swap between the currencies based on your share. |
how? i'm waiting on your technical details of how nano is 'faster' than bch. not bullshit, i want technical details of the 'faster' claim. |
false. if you trust th chain and the greed of the miners, 0conf is 0conf. that's the fucking point. there's no wait time, that is why it is called 0conf. |
'faster and cheaper'. from the quick thiscussions tonight and the bit of reading i've done it looks like i can add the nano community to the cult list along with r i will actually do some more reading about the network structure of nano but the charlatan shitbag nano cultists on this sub can fuck off. have a good one! |
jokes on you i own lots of both and they are outperforming nano with ease. |
i'm open to it, just waiting on the charlatans who claim how it works is 'common knowledge' to explain anything about how it is feeless from a technical perspective. the crypto space, unlike any other space really, is full of people who have absolutely no idea how anything actually works. |
up are saying that not for profit organizations do not have profit motives? also, i still have not seen any technical data as to how nano is 'feeless'. still waiting. |
the experiment with the lightning network just really started with el salvador. how is it already been decided that it is not working as a currency? and why would nano be then? |
i have, that is hardly even worth mentioning. btw, you want to answer my original question about wondering where this increased demand is coming from that is going to cause this supply squeeze? surely you're going to need more than just the 2miners payouts, probably realistically you'll need something like that 50 times over (assuming they are not directly selling that nano which is far from a given). |
nice anecdote, i've bought everywhere from . describing the comment i responded to as "presumptuous" would be an understatement. |
agreed, a ton of technicals behind it. essentially, the way nano works, is when you hold nano in your wallet - you get to choose who your representative is. representatives help regulate and secure the network. if you have 1 nano, you have 1 vote. users vote on their representatives, then the representatives verify the transactions on the network. representatives get more power by having more votes delegated to them. so, the nano community collectively decides who they want securing the network. the only way to thisrupt that was if someone were to acquire 67% of the supply and delegate their votes to a single representative which would just not make financial sense in any way. in summary - nano is actually more decentralized and secure than bitcoin is, due to how many more representatives there are! |
the security of the concensus system in any given crypto is important, bitcoin uses mining to solve the issue while nano just uses more clever and efficient methods that acheive the same quality of result without all the waste of energy that bitcoin has from mining |
bitcoin is losing marketshare and is unusable as a currency. 🤷♀️ |
lol that is like saying, "ibm is so big, have their hands in so many industries, even governments contract ibm for tons of stuff, there is no way this company is going anywehre but up"... or same about ford model t. just cuz something is big right now does not mean that a technicalyl superior option takes marketshare from it over time |
bitcoin has 1st mover advantage. i like both bitcoin and nano |
i don’t think i’ll ever understand btc maxis’s fetishizing of ancient and inefficient technology 🤷🏼♂️ |
there are thousands of nodes operating right now, so a lot people have their reasons. i presume most of them do it because they have a financial interest in securing and decentralizing nano. |
one of the main reasons is that it gives you a secure and trustworthy interface to the nano network. that is useful when you develop or want to integrate it in a product. this happens because it is not just a buy and hold, it can be used. probably the feeless and instantaneous nature makes it easy to get used. at least for me, that is why i run a node for a year already. |
if you run a service that use nano, you also need to run a node to talk with the network, and manage your own funds efficiently. |
you're in crypto to make the world a better place? ayyy lmao... you're going to have a bad time. |
so there is one amm that supports nano that was made 2 weeks ago and has a whopping .7k total tvl between all assets, thus is basically unusable without incurring massive slippage. i guess it exists technically, but functionally it is unusable. |
just on a simple google search states that average transaction time for bch is…...wait for it...2.5 hours. how’s that retard? |
also it’s fees average at 28 cents per transaction. can you comprehend how 28 cents is more than feeless? or do you need technical analysis for that as well? |
or is that too technical for you? |
and nanos is less than one second on average |
why would you trust miners who have no incentive other than to earn block rewards to sell? if they could double spend, they all would, and 0-conf is the cracked door. |
nano is up 414% ytd while bitcoin is up 115% |
i explained it above - but to get more technical: nano doesn’t use a standard blockchain like btc or bch. nano uses a technology called the “block lattice” or dag (directed acrylic graph). think of a blockchain as a 1 lane road, and the block lattice as a highway with infinite lanes. with the blockchain, in order to get your transaction to the front, you either have to pay fees or wait in line. with the block lattice, everyone has their own “lane” and can transact directly on it. because of this, there is no need for fees or waiting for your transaction to confirm because there is no competition on your own blockchain. how is nano able to use infinite blockchains when other cryptos use just one? it is because of the nodes that people run which sync up the network. my wallet has a node representative that i selected. when my transaction is confirmed, the node relays that transaction to the other nodes in the network so that my transaction is public and recorded. running a node is not required to transact on the network. but individuals or businesses who have a large nano holding are incentivized to run the node as it further helps secure the network and increase the utility of it. by doing this, this helps secure their own holding. in this type of ecosystem, no fees are required. but to be clear, node operators do pay for cloud hardware (around ) to run a node. |
lmao! what technical data!? it’s doesn’t have fees, do you understand? no fees means, feeless, it’s really not that hard |
go send nano between two wallets, you can see for yourself that it is free. if you send yourself .00001 nano your other wallet will receive .00001 nano. that's a game changer in crypto... not a single other coin offers that ability to send either fractions of a penny, or millions of dollars, completely for free. experiencing how free it is it is better than me explaining to you the technical data of how it is made possible. |
whereas with ln you need the strike app in el salvador, (a centralized solution), if they were using nano they could use any variety of wallets they wanted. ln is not decentralized, nano is. that's the difference |
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