qid int64 1 74.7M | question stringlengths 12 33.8k | date stringlengths 10 10 | metadata list | response_j stringlengths 0 115k | response_k stringlengths 2 98.3k |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
148,354 | In games where you have to use an account to sign in or otherwise authenticate yourself (e.g MMO games), it is often prohibited to share your account with other people.
For example in the [World of Warcraft Official Terms of Use Agreement](http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/wow_tou.html):
>
> [...] You may not share the Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one (1) minor child to use the Account when not in use by you. You are liable for all uses of the Account that has been enabled by you […]
>
>
>
And the [League of Legends Terms of Use](http://eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse):
>
> [...] You can’t share your account or Login Credentials with anyone. You can’t sell, transfer or allow any other person to access your account or Login Credentials, or offer to do so. You’re entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Login Credentials. [...]
>
>
>
What is the reason for this? Is it because of legal reasons and / or security reasons? I imagine account sharing would not be a problem if there weren't some real-world consequences for the *company*, not just the end-user. | 2017/09/13 | [
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/148354",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/users/77195/"
] | Besides the legalese mentioned in other answers, there are also simple business reasons.
Some games like World of Warcraft charge people by account. If you let two people share an account, you lose 50% of your revenue.
Other games like League of Legends charge people for being allowed to use ingame content. That content is bound to each account. If you would allow account share, only one person would have to buy content which all of them could then use.
The only business model where you would not have any losses by allowing account share would be a pay-by-minute price model. But that has fallen out of fashion over 20 years ago. | Additionally, in League of Legends, for example, if you were allowed to share accounts the balance in ranked queues would be a real mess. By prohibiting account sharing elo boosting is nearly non-existent, however all it takes to manipulate the system, in this case, is to use VPN. |
148,354 | In games where you have to use an account to sign in or otherwise authenticate yourself (e.g MMO games), it is often prohibited to share your account with other people.
For example in the [World of Warcraft Official Terms of Use Agreement](http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/wow_tou.html):
>
> [...] You may not share the Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one (1) minor child to use the Account when not in use by you. You are liable for all uses of the Account that has been enabled by you […]
>
>
>
And the [League of Legends Terms of Use](http://eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse):
>
> [...] You can’t share your account or Login Credentials with anyone. You can’t sell, transfer or allow any other person to access your account or Login Credentials, or offer to do so. You’re entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Login Credentials. [...]
>
>
>
What is the reason for this? Is it because of legal reasons and / or security reasons? I imagine account sharing would not be a problem if there weren't some real-world consequences for the *company*, not just the end-user. | 2017/09/13 | [
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/148354",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/users/77195/"
] | In addition to all the other answers:
Prohibiting this has also the benefit of balancing the game from the point of view of players that won't be sharing their account.
Assuming that account sharing is allowed, a player who wanted to have an account only for himself could think:
>
> Ah, even if I dedicate my whole time to this game, and even if I play in the best way possible, there is no way I can beat those guys with shared accounts - while one sleeps and the other works, the third player plays and there is no way I can level up as much of those guys... **Therefore I don't stand a chance, and I won't even start to play this...**
>
>
> | It is absolutely standard that if you have an account for a service, then you are responsible for what is done with that account.
In game terms, some of the things which can be done with an account might include:
* Cheating,
* Playing disruptively,
* Insulting or threatening behaviour,
* Circumventing copy protection,
* Distributing pirated software,
* Distributing other illegal material,
* Etc.
If account sharing is permitted, then this responsibility cannot be enforced. |
148,354 | In games where you have to use an account to sign in or otherwise authenticate yourself (e.g MMO games), it is often prohibited to share your account with other people.
For example in the [World of Warcraft Official Terms of Use Agreement](http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/wow_tou.html):
>
> [...] You may not share the Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one (1) minor child to use the Account when not in use by you. You are liable for all uses of the Account that has been enabled by you […]
>
>
>
And the [League of Legends Terms of Use](http://eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse):
>
> [...] You can’t share your account or Login Credentials with anyone. You can’t sell, transfer or allow any other person to access your account or Login Credentials, or offer to do so. You’re entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Login Credentials. [...]
>
>
>
What is the reason for this? Is it because of legal reasons and / or security reasons? I imagine account sharing would not be a problem if there weren't some real-world consequences for the *company*, not just the end-user. | 2017/09/13 | [
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/148354",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/users/77195/"
] | Besides the legalese mentioned in other answers, there are also simple business reasons.
Some games like World of Warcraft charge people by account. If you let two people share an account, you lose 50% of your revenue.
Other games like League of Legends charge people for being allowed to use ingame content. That content is bound to each account. If you would allow account share, only one person would have to buy content which all of them could then use.
The only business model where you would not have any losses by allowing account share would be a pay-by-minute price model. But that has fallen out of fashion over 20 years ago. | It is absolutely standard that if you have an account for a service, then you are responsible for what is done with that account.
In game terms, some of the things which can be done with an account might include:
* Cheating,
* Playing disruptively,
* Insulting or threatening behaviour,
* Circumventing copy protection,
* Distributing pirated software,
* Distributing other illegal material,
* Etc.
If account sharing is permitted, then this responsibility cannot be enforced. |
148,354 | In games where you have to use an account to sign in or otherwise authenticate yourself (e.g MMO games), it is often prohibited to share your account with other people.
For example in the [World of Warcraft Official Terms of Use Agreement](http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/wow_tou.html):
>
> [...] You may not share the Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one (1) minor child to use the Account when not in use by you. You are liable for all uses of the Account that has been enabled by you […]
>
>
>
And the [League of Legends Terms of Use](http://eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse):
>
> [...] You can’t share your account or Login Credentials with anyone. You can’t sell, transfer or allow any other person to access your account or Login Credentials, or offer to do so. You’re entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Login Credentials. [...]
>
>
>
What is the reason for this? Is it because of legal reasons and / or security reasons? I imagine account sharing would not be a problem if there weren't some real-world consequences for the *company*, not just the end-user. | 2017/09/13 | [
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/148354",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/users/77195/"
] | I can see a single aspect why they would ask you not to do it: *money*.
If you share your account credentials with someone you trust, but end up losing all your stuff because that someone ended up not being trustworthy, you might ask the help-desk to recover the items for you. They would have to pay an employee to trace back where your stuff is. This would cost them more money than what they have planned.
If I play with you once in a while, the only thing I see is your avatar. I don't have any way to know if it's actually you or your little brother. I trust *you*, not your brother. Imagine if you lead a guild what can happen! Sharing accounts can also be used to create havoc with other players. All of this adds confusion and unease for other players, making them less likely to play your game.
If you share your account with someone else, it means that you (your account) can be connected and play 24/7. A normal person can't do that. If the developer estimated that it will take 6 months at 8 hours a day to reach the 'end of the content', playing 24/7 means that an account will reach it in 2 months instead of 6. Imagine a bunch of gold/item farmers that get there really early, get a bunch of end-game items and sell them on eBay? The reputation of the game would take a hit, reducing the amount of paying customers.
*All of the behaviours that can be introduced by sharing an account are detrimental for the developer, either directly (they explicitly lose money), or implicitly (they lose reputation, then players, then money).* | I'm not a gamer, but my first thought was that if multiple people use the same account, any analytics collected about the user would be difficult or impossible to interpret. Not sure if games collect analytics, but figured I'd throw it out there. |
148,354 | In games where you have to use an account to sign in or otherwise authenticate yourself (e.g MMO games), it is often prohibited to share your account with other people.
For example in the [World of Warcraft Official Terms of Use Agreement](http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/wow_tou.html):
>
> [...] You may not share the Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one (1) minor child to use the Account when not in use by you. You are liable for all uses of the Account that has been enabled by you […]
>
>
>
And the [League of Legends Terms of Use](http://eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse):
>
> [...] You can’t share your account or Login Credentials with anyone. You can’t sell, transfer or allow any other person to access your account or Login Credentials, or offer to do so. You’re entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Login Credentials. [...]
>
>
>
What is the reason for this? Is it because of legal reasons and / or security reasons? I imagine account sharing would not be a problem if there weren't some real-world consequences for the *company*, not just the end-user. | 2017/09/13 | [
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/148354",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/users/77195/"
] | It's important to have a firm grasp of precisely who the legal entities are in any contractual agreement, so you know who you have to sue or blame or whatever if it ever comes to that.
Less seriously, if account-sharing were permissible, then blaming "somebody else who was using the account at the time" would be a reasonable response to any punishments for violating any other rules. By prohibiting sharing that way, a company eliminates the hassle of having to deal with that argument (which is usually impossible to disprove) in response to bans. Obviously people still try to use that defense, but a company can simply point to the rule against account sharing and say "well that's not allowed either." It makes life way simpler for the GM team.
It also has a small side-benefit: it means that if you and your friend want to play, you have to buy two copies of the game, you can't buy one and share it. This is obviously also better for the company. | In addition to the many fine answers, there is another reason.
Game companies don't want to arbitrate your personal squabbles.
If you share your account with someone, you allow them to delete your characters, sell your items, or simply change your password and lock you out.
Many people would trust some people with their account now, and would regret this decision later.
The owners of the game do not want to do arbitrating whether the old or the new email address used to reset the password is best, and whether to return the 'Sword of Awesomeness' that was sold to another account for 1 copper. It involves them putting in time and effort to decide which of their user base to annoy. |
148,354 | In games where you have to use an account to sign in or otherwise authenticate yourself (e.g MMO games), it is often prohibited to share your account with other people.
For example in the [World of Warcraft Official Terms of Use Agreement](http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/wow_tou.html):
>
> [...] You may not share the Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one (1) minor child to use the Account when not in use by you. You are liable for all uses of the Account that has been enabled by you […]
>
>
>
And the [League of Legends Terms of Use](http://eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse):
>
> [...] You can’t share your account or Login Credentials with anyone. You can’t sell, transfer or allow any other person to access your account or Login Credentials, or offer to do so. You’re entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Login Credentials. [...]
>
>
>
What is the reason for this? Is it because of legal reasons and / or security reasons? I imagine account sharing would not be a problem if there weren't some real-world consequences for the *company*, not just the end-user. | 2017/09/13 | [
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/148354",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/users/77195/"
] | It is absolutely standard that if you have an account for a service, then you are responsible for what is done with that account.
In game terms, some of the things which can be done with an account might include:
* Cheating,
* Playing disruptively,
* Insulting or threatening behaviour,
* Circumventing copy protection,
* Distributing pirated software,
* Distributing other illegal material,
* Etc.
If account sharing is permitted, then this responsibility cannot be enforced. | Additionally, in League of Legends, for example, if you were allowed to share accounts the balance in ranked queues would be a real mess. By prohibiting account sharing elo boosting is nearly non-existent, however all it takes to manipulate the system, in this case, is to use VPN. |
148,354 | In games where you have to use an account to sign in or otherwise authenticate yourself (e.g MMO games), it is often prohibited to share your account with other people.
For example in the [World of Warcraft Official Terms of Use Agreement](http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/wow_tou.html):
>
> [...] You may not share the Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one (1) minor child to use the Account when not in use by you. You are liable for all uses of the Account that has been enabled by you […]
>
>
>
And the [League of Legends Terms of Use](http://eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse):
>
> [...] You can’t share your account or Login Credentials with anyone. You can’t sell, transfer or allow any other person to access your account or Login Credentials, or offer to do so. You’re entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Login Credentials. [...]
>
>
>
What is the reason for this? Is it because of legal reasons and / or security reasons? I imagine account sharing would not be a problem if there weren't some real-world consequences for the *company*, not just the end-user. | 2017/09/13 | [
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/148354",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/users/77195/"
] | Besides the legalese mentioned in other answers, there are also simple business reasons.
Some games like World of Warcraft charge people by account. If you let two people share an account, you lose 50% of your revenue.
Other games like League of Legends charge people for being allowed to use ingame content. That content is bound to each account. If you would allow account share, only one person would have to buy content which all of them could then use.
The only business model where you would not have any losses by allowing account share would be a pay-by-minute price model. But that has fallen out of fashion over 20 years ago. | In addition to all the other answers, there is another reason: **Ensuring leaderboard integrity by prohibiting account sharing and multi-account usage.** A famous example is the rhythm game [osu!](https://osu.ppy.sh), which states as its **first** rule:
[](https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Rules)
Due to the game's ranking system ("[performance points](https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Performance_Points)") absence of this rule would destroy the leaderboards, as a top player could easily dominate their rank range by just repeating their top scores. |
148,354 | In games where you have to use an account to sign in or otherwise authenticate yourself (e.g MMO games), it is often prohibited to share your account with other people.
For example in the [World of Warcraft Official Terms of Use Agreement](http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/wow_tou.html):
>
> [...] You may not share the Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one (1) minor child to use the Account when not in use by you. You are liable for all uses of the Account that has been enabled by you […]
>
>
>
And the [League of Legends Terms of Use](http://eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse):
>
> [...] You can’t share your account or Login Credentials with anyone. You can’t sell, transfer or allow any other person to access your account or Login Credentials, or offer to do so. You’re entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Login Credentials. [...]
>
>
>
What is the reason for this? Is it because of legal reasons and / or security reasons? I imagine account sharing would not be a problem if there weren't some real-world consequences for the *company*, not just the end-user. | 2017/09/13 | [
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/148354",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com",
"https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/users/77195/"
] | In addition to all the other answers:
Prohibiting this has also the benefit of balancing the game from the point of view of players that won't be sharing their account.
Assuming that account sharing is allowed, a player who wanted to have an account only for himself could think:
>
> Ah, even if I dedicate my whole time to this game, and even if I play in the best way possible, there is no way I can beat those guys with shared accounts - while one sleeps and the other works, the third player plays and there is no way I can level up as much of those guys... **Therefore I don't stand a chance, and I won't even start to play this...**
>
>
> | In addition to all the other answers, there is another reason: **Ensuring leaderboard integrity by prohibiting account sharing and multi-account usage.** A famous example is the rhythm game [osu!](https://osu.ppy.sh), which states as its **first** rule:
[](https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Rules)
Due to the game's ranking system ("[performance points](https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Performance_Points)") absence of this rule would destroy the leaderboards, as a top player could easily dominate their rank range by just repeating their top scores. |
484,491 | I'm trying to design a power supply for an academic project, which can supply +/-10V and can also measure the output current, hopefully down to nA range for a maximum of 5mA.
To perform the current measurement, I'm using various high side resistors(in the schematic there is just one resistor for the sake of simplicity. I think I'll switch the resistors with a relay) to sense the output current(R2), using a AD8221 Precision Instrumentation Amplifier.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/iGKpW.png)
As you can see the output voltage is following the input voltage, with a little overshoot, which is fine i think. Watching at the current measuring plot however, there's something wrong.
The output current is +/-5nA, which is what i expected, but in the output voltage node "MEASURE" plot there's something strange.
I'm using a 10kOhm current sense resistor and the instrumentation amplifier's gain set to 100, so, with a +/-5nA output current, the output voltage should be: 10kOhm\*(+/-)5nA\*100=(+/-)5mV. Instead, as you can see, there is this strange waveform which is everything but what i expected.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/fFC1Q.png)
Do you have any suggestion to solve this issue or even improve the circuit? | 2020/03/04 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/484491",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/200685/"
] | In general the tab would be connected to the middle pin. So no, there is no reason to think the tab is GND. The tab is Vout, like on many other 1117 type regulators. | [This datasheet](https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/1809201851_Shanghai-Siproin-Microelectronics-SSP1117-5-0V_C277893.pdf) seems to indicate that the fin isn't connected to anything in particular. The safest thing to do would keep it electrically isolated. You could also use an ohmmeter to see if it's connected to another pin, but that doesn't guarantee it's not connected to an internal node. |
484,491 | I'm trying to design a power supply for an academic project, which can supply +/-10V and can also measure the output current, hopefully down to nA range for a maximum of 5mA.
To perform the current measurement, I'm using various high side resistors(in the schematic there is just one resistor for the sake of simplicity. I think I'll switch the resistors with a relay) to sense the output current(R2), using a AD8221 Precision Instrumentation Amplifier.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/iGKpW.png)
As you can see the output voltage is following the input voltage, with a little overshoot, which is fine i think. Watching at the current measuring plot however, there's something wrong.
The output current is +/-5nA, which is what i expected, but in the output voltage node "MEASURE" plot there's something strange.
I'm using a 10kOhm current sense resistor and the instrumentation amplifier's gain set to 100, so, with a +/-5nA output current, the output voltage should be: 10kOhm\*(+/-)5nA\*100=(+/-)5mV. Instead, as you can see, there is this strange waveform which is everything but what i expected.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/fFC1Q.png)
Do you have any suggestion to solve this issue or even improve the circuit? | 2020/03/04 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/484491",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/200685/"
] | In general the tab would be connected to the middle pin. So no, there is no reason to think the tab is GND. The tab is Vout, like on many other 1117 type regulators. | I am 99.99% sure that it's connected to Vout, like every other xxx1117 regulator out there.
You should connect the tab to a large area of copper if the regulator is to dissipate much heat, since the die is mounted on the leadframe in such a way as to allow most of the heat to be conducted out through the tab. Image of *typical* SOT-223 package from [this](https://www.richtek.com/Design%20Support/Technical%20Document/AN044) website:
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/NzkPz.png)
If you're seriously concerned you can either test one with an ohmmeter or contact the manufacturer <http://www.siproin.com/en/Contact/> and ask them. |
484,491 | I'm trying to design a power supply for an academic project, which can supply +/-10V and can also measure the output current, hopefully down to nA range for a maximum of 5mA.
To perform the current measurement, I'm using various high side resistors(in the schematic there is just one resistor for the sake of simplicity. I think I'll switch the resistors with a relay) to sense the output current(R2), using a AD8221 Precision Instrumentation Amplifier.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/iGKpW.png)
As you can see the output voltage is following the input voltage, with a little overshoot, which is fine i think. Watching at the current measuring plot however, there's something wrong.
The output current is +/-5nA, which is what i expected, but in the output voltage node "MEASURE" plot there's something strange.
I'm using a 10kOhm current sense resistor and the instrumentation amplifier's gain set to 100, so, with a +/-5nA output current, the output voltage should be: 10kOhm\*(+/-)5nA\*100=(+/-)5mV. Instead, as you can see, there is this strange waveform which is everything but what i expected.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/fFC1Q.png)
Do you have any suggestion to solve this issue or even improve the circuit? | 2020/03/04 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/484491",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/200685/"
] | I am 99.99% sure that it's connected to Vout, like every other xxx1117 regulator out there.
You should connect the tab to a large area of copper if the regulator is to dissipate much heat, since the die is mounted on the leadframe in such a way as to allow most of the heat to be conducted out through the tab. Image of *typical* SOT-223 package from [this](https://www.richtek.com/Design%20Support/Technical%20Document/AN044) website:
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/NzkPz.png)
If you're seriously concerned you can either test one with an ohmmeter or contact the manufacturer <http://www.siproin.com/en/Contact/> and ask them. | [This datasheet](https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/1809201851_Shanghai-Siproin-Microelectronics-SSP1117-5-0V_C277893.pdf) seems to indicate that the fin isn't connected to anything in particular. The safest thing to do would keep it electrically isolated. You could also use an ohmmeter to see if it's connected to another pin, but that doesn't guarantee it's not connected to an internal node. |
30,521,325 | For some reason (I don't know what), my phone is not getting connected over USB for debugging purposes.
I have checked that the device drivers are properly installed and the USB debugging option inside phone settings is checked.
Due to this, I am facing difficulties in debugging apps on device. I always have to export the apk and install it in my phone and do a sort of black box testing.
Is there any way that I could debug apps over Wi-Fi or Bluetooth...?
NOTE : I am using an android phone with KitKat 4.4.2 installed. | 2015/05/29 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/30521325",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/4164419/"
] | IntelliJ and Android Studio plugin created to quickly connect your Android device over WiFi to install, run and debug your applications without a USB connected. Press one button and forget about your USB cable.
just install plugin Android WiFi ADB
**Download and install Android WiFi ADB directly from
Intellij / Android Studio: Preferences/Settings->Plugins->Browse Repositories**
[![Browse repositories ][2]][2]
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/ntFYK.png) | Connecting using wifi requires to use usb wire once(Without Rooting)
Here is the process for that
[How can I connect to Android with ADB over TCP?](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2604727/how-can-i-connect-to-android-with-adb-over-tcp)
If usb is not working you should checkout debugging over bluetooth (Without Rooting)
<http://blog.wijono.org/2014/01/android-connecting-adb-to-physical.html>
<http://zcourts.com/2013/07/19/android-debugging-over-bluetooth-without-root/#sthash.hVCLtWSk.dpbs> |
9,212 | I recently learned that the priest of the Vishnu temple in my native village of Poondi is a low-caste person. The notion of a low-caste person serving in a temple didn't surprise me, since in the Sri Vaishnava sect it's a well-established practice for low-caste people who have performed Sharanagati (complete surrender to Vishnu) to perform service to temples. But I was more surprised to learn the priest was not a Sri Vaishnava, but rather a Vaikhanasa.
As I discuss in [this answer](https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/6896/36), one of the early movements that was important in the development of Vaishnavism was the ancient Pancharatra movement, whose sacred texts consisted of detailed procedures to worship the sage Narayana, an ancient incarnation of Vishnu. Since the Pancharatra texts originated from Narayana himself, they are followed by pretty much all mainstream Vaishnava Sampradayas, whether Sri Vaishnavas, Madhvas, Gaudiya Vaishnavas, etc. But as I discuss in [this answer](http://But%20as%20I%20discuss%20in%20this%20answer,%20there's%20another%20group%20of%20Vishnu-worshippers%20who%20worship%20Vishnu%20according%20to%20the%20different%20set%20of%20texts,%20the%20Vaikhanasas.%20Vaikhanasas%20place%20more%20emphasis%20on%20rituals%20than%20in%20high-minded%20philosophy;%20while%20mainstream%20Vaishnavas%20are%20committed%20to%20elaborate%20Vedantic%20philosophical%20systems,%20like%20Dvaita%20or%20Visistadvaita,%20Vaikhanasa%20doctrines%20are%20more%20about%20the%20construction%20and%20worship%20of%20idols%20and%20the%20like.%20The%20vast%20majority%20of%20Vishnu-worshippers%20are%20Vaishnavas,%20but%20there%20are%20a%20few%20Vaikhanasa%20temples%20in%20India.), there's another group of Vishnu-worshippers who worship Vishnu according to the different set of texts, the Vaikhanasas. Vaikhanasas place more emphasis on rituals than in high-minded philosophy; while mainstream Vaishnavas are committed to elaborate Vedantic philosophical systems, like Dvaita or Visistadvaita, Vaikhanasa doctrines are more about the construction and worship of idols and the like. The vast majority of Vishnu-worshippers follow Pancharatra, but there are several Vaikhanasa temples in India, including the world-renowned Tirumala Tirupati/Venkatesshwara temple.
In any case, it seems that the priest in my native village of Poondi belongs to the "Bhattacharya" community, which is apparently a community of low-caste Vaikhanasa priests. My question is, are there any sources that discuss this community? And assuming this community does exist, what is its origin? As I discuss in [this answer](https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/6707/36), the Vaikhanasa system was founded by the sage Vikhanasa, who taught it to four sages, Atri, Marichi, Kashyapa, and Bhrigu. And Vaikhanasas believe that they're "Garbha Vaishnavas", i.e. that the child of Vaikhanasa parents is initiated into the system by Vishnu while they're still in the womb. So how could a system which began with four Brahmins and which believes that only the offspring of Vaikhanasas can be a Vaikhanasa ever acquire low-caste members?
And is true that the Vaikhanasa system allows low-caste people to be priests? My understanding is that of the two systems, Pancharatra is a bit more liberal on caste than Vaikhanasa; Wikipedia says [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaikhanasas#History):
>
> With the rise of the Shri Vaishnavas the Vaikhanasas declined in their temple role. Rāmānuja, leader of the Shri Vaishnavas and the first organiser of temple administration at Srirangam Temple, replaced the Vaikhanasa system of worship with the more liberal Pañcaratra system, expanded the fivefold division of temple servants into tenfold, and gave an important part in ritual to sudra, lowest caste, ascetics. This change spread to other Vaishnava temples.
>
>
>
And judging by [this excerpt](http://gdurl.com/d6Ff) from the Vaikhanasa Dharma Sutras, their views on the caste system seem to be perfectly orthodox. So how could the Vaikhanasas accept the Bhattacharya community and allow them to be priests? | 2015/10/27 | [
"https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/9212",
"https://hinduism.stackexchange.com",
"https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/users/36/"
] | The issue is not one of caste but one of *subcaste*. Both Pancharatrins and Vaikhanasas are rivals and consider each other to be inferior.
To make matters worse, Vedic Brahmins (non-Pancharatrins/non-Vaikhanasa) consider both of them to be of inferior *subcaste* to their own. This issue was brought up during Yamunacharya's time as a reason for rejecting the validity of the Pancharatra (since they were being followed by non-orthodox temple priests). See Agama Pramanya of Yamunacharya for how he defended the position against this arguenr.
Such *subcaste issues* are common even among Smartas. E.g Orthodox Vadama Iyers go to the extent of intermarrying with Vadakalai Iyengars rather than with Brihachcharanam Iyers since the former are considered an offshoot of Vadamas and thus equivalent in subcaste-level whereas the latter are considered inferior in subcaste.
This is not new. Ever since the time of Ramanuja, such *subcaste* differences were prominent (although it wasn't considered with a superiority-inferiority complex, but rather one of simply the subcastes being different).
See the story of matrimonial alliance between Kuresa's son and Mahapurna's daughter in the biography of Ramanuja by Alkondaville Govindachariar.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/4c0Fq.png)
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/AGgyO.png) | To the question of "how could the Vaikhanasas accept the Bhattacharya community and allow them to be priests?" , I would quote Iśvara Samhitā.
>
> brāhmaṇaḥ kṣatriyo vaiśyaḥ śūdro va bhagavanmayaḥ | śraddhā bhakti
> samāyuktaḥ sampannaḥ śānta mānasaḥ || 5 || āstikaḥ satya-sandhaśca
> sadācāra samanvitaḥ | ācāryaṁ varayet pūrvaṁ bhagavad śāstra kovidam
> || 6 || tattvajñaṁ bhagavad bhaktaṁ bhagavad vaṁśa sambhavam |
>
>
>
A Brahmana, Kshatriya, Vaishya **or Sudra who is filled with mindfulness of Bhagavan, endowed with faith and devotion**, accomplished, of a peaceful disposition, who has faith in the Vedas, truthful, of good behavior, learned in Pancharatra and having thorough knowledge of philosophy, a devotee of God and born in a family of devotees **shall be chosen as acharya**. (Chapter 16 Temple consecration Isvara Samhita) |
278,843 | I currently have a pair of NETGEAR XAVB2001-100NAS Up to 200Mbps Powerline AV 200 Adapters. Can I just add a third unit upstairs (like <http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122361>, for example) and all three ports will have connectivity to each other?
Or do these guys work in pairs only? | 2011/05/04 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/278843",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/43513/"
] | So, I went and bought two more... and... it works a treat!
Shame the manufacturers don't make this clearer. I bet a lot of people simply don't realise this is even possible. | Can't vouch for Netgear but I have D-link powerline and three of the plugged in, works like a charm. |
51,366 | I've just listened to the short BBC News audio podcast clip [How British academics spied on the superpowers](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06w64jq):
>
> Tim O’Brien from the Jodrell Bank radio telescope discusses 50 year old recordings which show how Britain monitored Soviet space missions - and shared the findings with the Soviet Union.
>
>
>
He does indeed describe something more like assistance than spying (my attempt at transcription):
>
> The Russians used to send Jodrell all the coordinates and the frequencies they were using, so that we could track these spacecraft, and of course we would then announce this to the world.
>
>
> And I suppose in part, maybe, verify that they were really doing what they claimed to be doing, because when people would claim that they weren’t really technologically capable of doing this… because there was obviously a big political battle between these two superpowers.
>
>
> So it had this sort-of role, even to the extent that Jodrell would track the spacecraft, and record the signals on to tape, and a Russian would fly into Ringway airport in Manchester as it was then, and someone from here would drive up… get off the plane and hand them a tape, and they’d head off to Moscow with that recording.
>
>
>
Was this purely *scientific camaraderie* (pardon the pun), or inter-government cooperation or something else? Clearly the Soviet Union's space program benefited from both data and PR; did the UK benefit as well? | 2019/03/02 | [
"https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/51366",
"https://history.stackexchange.com",
"https://history.stackexchange.com/users/33008/"
] | **SHORT ANSWER**
Jodrell Bank's first 'coup', tracking [Sputnik 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_1) in 1957 (without Soviet assistance), put it in the news and helped secure funding. It also led to a congratulatory telegram from the Soviets.
After doubts were expressed about [Luna 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_1) (Jan 1959) being real, the Soviets sent the coordinates for [Luna 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_2) (Sept 1959) to Jodrell Bank head [Bernard Lovell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lovell) to verify. This put Jodrell Bank in the news again.
Lovell, apparently both returning a favour and in expectation of future information to which would again boost the prestige and importance of Jodrell Bank (as well as lead to continued cooperation which would increase Britain's international profile in astronomy), sent the data recordings to the Soviets. Jodrell Bank subsequently received coordinates for [Lunar 3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_3) (which sent the first ever pictures of the far side of the moon) in Oct 1959 and again sent recorded data to Moscow.
After Luna 3, direct requests from the Soviets seem to have ended. Instead, transmission frequencies were published by [TASS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TASS), but there was continued cooperation which also included the US, despite Cold War tensions. Lovell also visited the Soviet Union in 1963. However, relations between Jodrell Bank and the Soviet Academy of Sciences took something of a knock upon the publication of the [Luna 9](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_9) photographs in January 1966.
Looking at the broader picture, these exchanges between Jodrell Bank and the Soviets occurred during the [Khrushchev Thaw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchev_Thaw#International_relations), when the Soviet premier turned to the idea of [peaceful coexistence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaceful_coexistence) with the West.
---
**DETAILED ANSWER**
The tracking of Sputnik (1957) put Jodrell Bank in the news and secured funding. This from the University of Manchester [History Department blog](https://uomhistory.com/2017/02/02/hidden-cold-war-history-at-jodrell-bank-observatory/):
>
> The Jodrell Bank Observatory was catapulted to a position of global
> prominence, Lovell’s critics were silenced, and new funds poured in –
> not only from the British government, but also from the United States.
>
>
>
Bernard Lovell had
>
> struggled to find the necessary resources to complete the telescope....Government funding for the project proved inadequate and
> controversial....The project was heavily
> criticized in Parliament as a boondoggle, and there were even calls to
> have him arrested on charges of overspending public money, especially
> since it was still unclear what purpose the telescope served.
>
>
>
Further, there was much conflict between him and the engineers. This provided another reason as:
>
> At Jodrell Bank the satellite was used to show the public harmony of
> engineers and astronomers, and the successful demonstration of working
> telescopes.
>
>
>
*Source: John Agar, [Science and Spectacle: The Work of Jodrell Bank in Post-war British Culture](https://books.google.com.ph/books/about/Science_and_Spectacle.html?id=gsWHRgnmtaMC&redir_esc=y)*
Agar further notes that:
>
> The Soviet satellite was therefore appropriated differently by British
> groups....For Jodrell Bank, Sputnik was used to demonstrate the
> efficacy of their radio telescope. Why was this necessary?...to manage
> internal divisions and contests of responsibility, and to counter
> criticism of the construction of the telescope by the constitution of
> public authority.
>
>
>
The fact that Jodrell Bank could track Sputnik was of [huge interest to the US](https://uomhistory.com/2017/02/02/hidden-cold-war-history-at-jodrell-bank-observatory/):
>
> Desperate to monitor Soviet rocket launches, and to use Jodrell Bank’s
> facilities to track their own rapidly expanding efforts, both the US
> Air Force and NASA were soon paying substantial amounts for access to
> the telescope.
>
>
>
Further, for a while it was the only telescope able to track an ICBM. [Thus](https://uomhistory.com/2017/02/02/hidden-cold-war-history-at-jodrell-bank-observatory/),
>
> The Jodrell Bank telescope briefly became an “early warning device”
> for a Soviet nuclear attack.
>
>
>
As you suggested in a comment, the providing of tapes to the Soviets was quite likely in acknowledgement of the Luna II (September 1959) coordinates received by Jodrell Bank. There was an exchange of information which was mutually beneficial, and perhaps a little professional courtesy also played a part as [the Soviets](https://rylandscollections.wordpress.com/2017/10/04/sputnik-and-jodrell-bank-radio-telescope/)
>
> even sent him [Lovell] a telegram of thanks
>
>
>
following the Sputnik publicity.
This well-sourced [Jodrell Bank Centre for Astrophysics (UOM) article](http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/history/tracking/part1.html) notes that Lovell was initially not overly enthusiastic about trying to track Luna II as they had failed to track Luna I (January 1959). However,
>
> The duty controller at Jodrell Bank informed Sir Bernard that the
> Russians 'had launched a rocket which would reach the moon on Sunday
> evening'. A reporter phoned and asked what Jodrell Bank 'was going to
> do about it'? To which Sir Bernard replied 'I am going to play
> cricket'. Having been unable to track Luna 1 and receiving very little help from the Russians in locating that probe he was not so keen on wasting the observatory's time on another moon probe.
>
>
>
When Lovell returned to his office in the evening, "in his own words"
>
> "And there, with the paper streaming
> out on the floor, was a message from Moscow giving precise details
> details of the frequencies of the transmitters in the Lunik and the
> co-ordinates for the latitude and longitude of Jodrell bank giving the
> time of lunar impact as 10 p.m. the following evening".
>
>
>
Further data from the Soviets followed the next day, and Jodrell bank was then able to confirm to the world
>
> that an object made by humans had travelled from the earth to another
> heavenly body!
>
>
>
Jodrell Bank's involvement in confirming this was not without controversy as some saw it as
>
> 'aiding and abetting the "Commies'".
>
>
>
*Source: September 18 letter cited by John Agar, Science and Spectacle*
Lovell's belief, though, was that
>
> large radio telescopes could guarantee Britain a position of influence
> between the USA and USSR
>
>
>
In short, until Jodrell Bank tracked Sputnik, Britain had declined from being at the forefront of astronomy to no more than a bit player. For Lovell, the facilities at Jodrell Bank were an opportunity to put Britain back in the limelight. Cooperating with both the Americans and the Soviets was an opportunity Lovell intended to exploit.
*Source: Agar*
Thus, later, [on the 1st of November](http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/jodrell/jodrole1.htm#lunawhizz),
>
> a telegram was sent to AN USSR asking for "co-ordinates for the next
> transmission from Luna 3", and the first batch of tapes of signals
> from Luna 2 and 3 were sent to Prof. Nesmeyanov of AN USSR on 9
> December 1959. In the accompanying letter Prof. Lovell thanked the
> Academy for the data with pointing information for the Jodrell Bank
> telescope. The final batch of Luna 3 tapes were sent to Akademi Nauk
> on 14 January 1960.
>
>
>
No direct communication seems to have taken place between Jodrell Bank and the Soviets for subsequent luna (4 to 14) missions: instead, the Soviets published navigation fixes in TASS. Nonetheless, there was [further cooperation](https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/kennedyjf/xxv/6024.htm) as
>
> Two Soviet scientists came to Jodrell Bank in June 1961 to search for
> signals from the Venus probe.
>
>
>
[On the American side](https://www.nasa.gov/50th/50th_magazine/coldWarCoOp.html), President Eisenhower had been making attempts at cooperating in space with the Soviets since 1957 but the latter were cagey. However, a [meeting between the Americans and the Soviets](https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4209/ch2-3.htm) did take place in March 1962. Neither this nor other proposals made any real headway at the time, though.
On the British side, in [June and July of 1963, Lovell](https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4209/ch2-4.htm)
>
> was the guest of the Soviet Academy of Sciences on an unprecedented
> tour, for a Western scientist, of the major optical and radio
> observatories.
>
>
>
His impressions and details of his discussions were duly passed on to the Americans and [from this trip stemmed](https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/kennedyjf/xxv/6024.htm)
>
> a cooperative program arranged between Jodrell Bank and the Deep Space
> Tracking Center at Yevpatoriya
>
>
>
and there were also [communication experiments](https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19660001946.pdf) in early 1964 between Jodrell Bank (working with the US) and
and the Soviet Gorky State University
facility in Zimenki.
---
For the Soviets, Jodrell Bank helped them to [prove to the world that their claims were true](https://uomhistory.com/2017/02/02/hidden-cold-war-history-at-jodrell-bank-observatory/):
>
> The Soviet Union also envisioned an important role for the Jodrell
> Bank Observatory, which could provide independent verification of its
> accomplishments. When the Soviet Union launched its Luna-1 rocket into
> space in January 1959, many believed it had never happened. As a
> result, when it launched the Luna-2 rocket in September 1959, Soviet
> authorities sent Jodrell Bank the rocket’s coordinates and
> frequencies; soon afterward, Jodrell Bank confirmed its existence.
>
>
>
Nonetheless, in late 1950s at least, there were still doubters, even at Jodrell Bank; Lovell, though, was not one of them. | >
> **Question:**
>
> Why did Jodrell Bank assist the Soviet Union to collect data from their spacecraft in the mid 1960's?....... He (BBC's Tim O’Brien) does indeed describe something more like assistance than spying.....
>
>
> Was this purely scientific camaraderie (pardon the pun), or inter-government cooperation or something else? Clearly the Soviet Union's space program benefited from both data and PR; did the UK benefit as well?
>
>
>
Rather than documenting the assistance provided by Jodrell Bank Observatory, I wanted to answer the question by explaining and defending their assistance.
An outside observer might mistake the assistance provided by Jodrell Bank Observatory as collaboration with an existential enemy, but that would be to mis characterize what was happening. Nothing so nefarious was occurring from the perspective of Jodrell Bank. Scientific achievement requires collaboration. Jodrell Bank Observatory at the University of Manchester mission statement places science at the heart of their purpose. As such assisting the Soviet Union with their independent observations falls within the parameters of the Jodrell Bank stated purpose. From the Soviet's perspective they were publicizing their own achievements, but certainly they were also pursuing and advancing human achievement in an important way. Scientific achievement worthy of the participation by other interested scientific institutions.
I think asked a different way, why did the often secretive Soviet Union request and facilitate the access of an independent western scientific establishment like Jodrell Bank, at the height of the Cold War?
The answer is that while aspects of the Soviet space program were secretive it was also an important public relations front of the Cold War.
During the Cold War, both super powers were motivated to compete across many fronts, to publicize their achievements and demonstrate their leadership and superiority. In this way they separated themselves as global leaders. Perhaps "the" global leader. Both super powers advertised the benefits of their forms of government by publicly celebrating their achievements. The Cold War had many fronts beyond the military confrontations and proxy wars. These fronts included athletics, diplomatic, cultural, economic, and artistic. Even the strategic board game of chess was for a time the front lines of the cold war. Additionally technological achievements; including what became the space race was from the earliest stages of sputnik, October 4, 1957, used to captured the imaginations of western observers and dramatically demonstrate the superiority of Soviet science. The huge stir Sputnik caused in the west, was in part, a public relations coupe for the Soviet Union. One which the Soviets would repeat many times:
* **[Laika](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika)**, Nov 3, 1957, the first living being to achieve orbit
* **[Belka and Strelka](http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20171027-the-stray-dogs-that-paved-the-way-to-the-stars)**, Aug 19, 1960, first animals to successfully orbit the earth.
* **[Luna 1 probe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_1)**, Jan 2, 1959, first probe to perform a fly by the moon
* **[Luna 2 probe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_2)**, Sept 14, 1959, first human artifact to reach the moon
* **[Yuri Gagarin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin)**, Apr 12, 1961, first human in space
* **[Valentina Tereshkova](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentina_Tereshkova)**, Jun 16, 1963, first woman in space
* **[Alexei Leonov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Leonov)**, Mar 18, 1965, first spacewalk.
These are just a few of the notable records set by the Soviet Union which motivated the west to develop and commit vast resources pursuing their own space program.
An important component of the space programs in both the Soviet Union as well as the United States were public relations. The Soviet Union required independent scientific organizations to verify and publicize their accomplishments just like the United States did in order to achieve the notoriety from those achievements. |
51,366 | I've just listened to the short BBC News audio podcast clip [How British academics spied on the superpowers](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06w64jq):
>
> Tim O’Brien from the Jodrell Bank radio telescope discusses 50 year old recordings which show how Britain monitored Soviet space missions - and shared the findings with the Soviet Union.
>
>
>
He does indeed describe something more like assistance than spying (my attempt at transcription):
>
> The Russians used to send Jodrell all the coordinates and the frequencies they were using, so that we could track these spacecraft, and of course we would then announce this to the world.
>
>
> And I suppose in part, maybe, verify that they were really doing what they claimed to be doing, because when people would claim that they weren’t really technologically capable of doing this… because there was obviously a big political battle between these two superpowers.
>
>
> So it had this sort-of role, even to the extent that Jodrell would track the spacecraft, and record the signals on to tape, and a Russian would fly into Ringway airport in Manchester as it was then, and someone from here would drive up… get off the plane and hand them a tape, and they’d head off to Moscow with that recording.
>
>
>
Was this purely *scientific camaraderie* (pardon the pun), or inter-government cooperation or something else? Clearly the Soviet Union's space program benefited from both data and PR; did the UK benefit as well? | 2019/03/02 | [
"https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/51366",
"https://history.stackexchange.com",
"https://history.stackexchange.com/users/33008/"
] | **SHORT ANSWER**
Jodrell Bank's first 'coup', tracking [Sputnik 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_1) in 1957 (without Soviet assistance), put it in the news and helped secure funding. It also led to a congratulatory telegram from the Soviets.
After doubts were expressed about [Luna 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_1) (Jan 1959) being real, the Soviets sent the coordinates for [Luna 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_2) (Sept 1959) to Jodrell Bank head [Bernard Lovell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lovell) to verify. This put Jodrell Bank in the news again.
Lovell, apparently both returning a favour and in expectation of future information to which would again boost the prestige and importance of Jodrell Bank (as well as lead to continued cooperation which would increase Britain's international profile in astronomy), sent the data recordings to the Soviets. Jodrell Bank subsequently received coordinates for [Lunar 3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_3) (which sent the first ever pictures of the far side of the moon) in Oct 1959 and again sent recorded data to Moscow.
After Luna 3, direct requests from the Soviets seem to have ended. Instead, transmission frequencies were published by [TASS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TASS), but there was continued cooperation which also included the US, despite Cold War tensions. Lovell also visited the Soviet Union in 1963. However, relations between Jodrell Bank and the Soviet Academy of Sciences took something of a knock upon the publication of the [Luna 9](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_9) photographs in January 1966.
Looking at the broader picture, these exchanges between Jodrell Bank and the Soviets occurred during the [Khrushchev Thaw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchev_Thaw#International_relations), when the Soviet premier turned to the idea of [peaceful coexistence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaceful_coexistence) with the West.
---
**DETAILED ANSWER**
The tracking of Sputnik (1957) put Jodrell Bank in the news and secured funding. This from the University of Manchester [History Department blog](https://uomhistory.com/2017/02/02/hidden-cold-war-history-at-jodrell-bank-observatory/):
>
> The Jodrell Bank Observatory was catapulted to a position of global
> prominence, Lovell’s critics were silenced, and new funds poured in –
> not only from the British government, but also from the United States.
>
>
>
Bernard Lovell had
>
> struggled to find the necessary resources to complete the telescope....Government funding for the project proved inadequate and
> controversial....The project was heavily
> criticized in Parliament as a boondoggle, and there were even calls to
> have him arrested on charges of overspending public money, especially
> since it was still unclear what purpose the telescope served.
>
>
>
Further, there was much conflict between him and the engineers. This provided another reason as:
>
> At Jodrell Bank the satellite was used to show the public harmony of
> engineers and astronomers, and the successful demonstration of working
> telescopes.
>
>
>
*Source: John Agar, [Science and Spectacle: The Work of Jodrell Bank in Post-war British Culture](https://books.google.com.ph/books/about/Science_and_Spectacle.html?id=gsWHRgnmtaMC&redir_esc=y)*
Agar further notes that:
>
> The Soviet satellite was therefore appropriated differently by British
> groups....For Jodrell Bank, Sputnik was used to demonstrate the
> efficacy of their radio telescope. Why was this necessary?...to manage
> internal divisions and contests of responsibility, and to counter
> criticism of the construction of the telescope by the constitution of
> public authority.
>
>
>
The fact that Jodrell Bank could track Sputnik was of [huge interest to the US](https://uomhistory.com/2017/02/02/hidden-cold-war-history-at-jodrell-bank-observatory/):
>
> Desperate to monitor Soviet rocket launches, and to use Jodrell Bank’s
> facilities to track their own rapidly expanding efforts, both the US
> Air Force and NASA were soon paying substantial amounts for access to
> the telescope.
>
>
>
Further, for a while it was the only telescope able to track an ICBM. [Thus](https://uomhistory.com/2017/02/02/hidden-cold-war-history-at-jodrell-bank-observatory/),
>
> The Jodrell Bank telescope briefly became an “early warning device”
> for a Soviet nuclear attack.
>
>
>
As you suggested in a comment, the providing of tapes to the Soviets was quite likely in acknowledgement of the Luna II (September 1959) coordinates received by Jodrell Bank. There was an exchange of information which was mutually beneficial, and perhaps a little professional courtesy also played a part as [the Soviets](https://rylandscollections.wordpress.com/2017/10/04/sputnik-and-jodrell-bank-radio-telescope/)
>
> even sent him [Lovell] a telegram of thanks
>
>
>
following the Sputnik publicity.
This well-sourced [Jodrell Bank Centre for Astrophysics (UOM) article](http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/history/tracking/part1.html) notes that Lovell was initially not overly enthusiastic about trying to track Luna II as they had failed to track Luna I (January 1959). However,
>
> The duty controller at Jodrell Bank informed Sir Bernard that the
> Russians 'had launched a rocket which would reach the moon on Sunday
> evening'. A reporter phoned and asked what Jodrell Bank 'was going to
> do about it'? To which Sir Bernard replied 'I am going to play
> cricket'. Having been unable to track Luna 1 and receiving very little help from the Russians in locating that probe he was not so keen on wasting the observatory's time on another moon probe.
>
>
>
When Lovell returned to his office in the evening, "in his own words"
>
> "And there, with the paper streaming
> out on the floor, was a message from Moscow giving precise details
> details of the frequencies of the transmitters in the Lunik and the
> co-ordinates for the latitude and longitude of Jodrell bank giving the
> time of lunar impact as 10 p.m. the following evening".
>
>
>
Further data from the Soviets followed the next day, and Jodrell bank was then able to confirm to the world
>
> that an object made by humans had travelled from the earth to another
> heavenly body!
>
>
>
Jodrell Bank's involvement in confirming this was not without controversy as some saw it as
>
> 'aiding and abetting the "Commies'".
>
>
>
*Source: September 18 letter cited by John Agar, Science and Spectacle*
Lovell's belief, though, was that
>
> large radio telescopes could guarantee Britain a position of influence
> between the USA and USSR
>
>
>
In short, until Jodrell Bank tracked Sputnik, Britain had declined from being at the forefront of astronomy to no more than a bit player. For Lovell, the facilities at Jodrell Bank were an opportunity to put Britain back in the limelight. Cooperating with both the Americans and the Soviets was an opportunity Lovell intended to exploit.
*Source: Agar*
Thus, later, [on the 1st of November](http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/jodrell/jodrole1.htm#lunawhizz),
>
> a telegram was sent to AN USSR asking for "co-ordinates for the next
> transmission from Luna 3", and the first batch of tapes of signals
> from Luna 2 and 3 were sent to Prof. Nesmeyanov of AN USSR on 9
> December 1959. In the accompanying letter Prof. Lovell thanked the
> Academy for the data with pointing information for the Jodrell Bank
> telescope. The final batch of Luna 3 tapes were sent to Akademi Nauk
> on 14 January 1960.
>
>
>
No direct communication seems to have taken place between Jodrell Bank and the Soviets for subsequent luna (4 to 14) missions: instead, the Soviets published navigation fixes in TASS. Nonetheless, there was [further cooperation](https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/kennedyjf/xxv/6024.htm) as
>
> Two Soviet scientists came to Jodrell Bank in June 1961 to search for
> signals from the Venus probe.
>
>
>
[On the American side](https://www.nasa.gov/50th/50th_magazine/coldWarCoOp.html), President Eisenhower had been making attempts at cooperating in space with the Soviets since 1957 but the latter were cagey. However, a [meeting between the Americans and the Soviets](https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4209/ch2-3.htm) did take place in March 1962. Neither this nor other proposals made any real headway at the time, though.
On the British side, in [June and July of 1963, Lovell](https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4209/ch2-4.htm)
>
> was the guest of the Soviet Academy of Sciences on an unprecedented
> tour, for a Western scientist, of the major optical and radio
> observatories.
>
>
>
His impressions and details of his discussions were duly passed on to the Americans and [from this trip stemmed](https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/kennedyjf/xxv/6024.htm)
>
> a cooperative program arranged between Jodrell Bank and the Deep Space
> Tracking Center at Yevpatoriya
>
>
>
and there were also [communication experiments](https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19660001946.pdf) in early 1964 between Jodrell Bank (working with the US) and
and the Soviet Gorky State University
facility in Zimenki.
---
For the Soviets, Jodrell Bank helped them to [prove to the world that their claims were true](https://uomhistory.com/2017/02/02/hidden-cold-war-history-at-jodrell-bank-observatory/):
>
> The Soviet Union also envisioned an important role for the Jodrell
> Bank Observatory, which could provide independent verification of its
> accomplishments. When the Soviet Union launched its Luna-1 rocket into
> space in January 1959, many believed it had never happened. As a
> result, when it launched the Luna-2 rocket in September 1959, Soviet
> authorities sent Jodrell Bank the rocket’s coordinates and
> frequencies; soon afterward, Jodrell Bank confirmed its existence.
>
>
>
Nonetheless, in late 1950s at least, there were still doubters, even at Jodrell Bank; Lovell, though, was not one of them. | As can be gathered by the other answers, it's a complex topic. The [University of Manchester](http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/history/tracking/part1.html) website gives some extra information.
Firstly, the Soviets were probably annoyed that no-one outside of the the Soviet Union believed that the Luna 1 probe, launched on 2 January 1959 existed. For the next successful launch, the Soviets decided to get Jodrell Bank to verify the existence of Luna 2, by providing pointing and frequency data.
>
> In a sense, the USSR also used the capabilities of Jodrell Bank. In many circles the first Soviet lunar probe, Luna 1, launched on 2 January 1959, was simply not believed to have existed (See (8)). This must have annoyed the Soviet authorities enormously, despite the fact that the transmission frequencies were announced directly after launch. For their second successful launch they decided to try to engage Jodrell Bank as a source of independent verification of any claim of success. Therefore the USSR sent detailed instructions to Jodrell Bank how to find their second lunar probe, Luna 2, that was launched on 12 September 1959 and hit the moon the next day. Jodrell Bank provided scientific proof that Luna 2 actually reached the moon, and the USSR continued to provide pointing and frequency data to Jodrell Bank for a number of years.
>
>
>
The other reason was because the Soviet ground station network was not very capable in those early days and they wanted a back-up in case of a crisis.
>
> Probably the Soviet Union felt uneasy about asking for such help after the US "Deep-Space Collection" programme was underway and Jodrell bank became part of this intelligence network. Despite any such possible misgivings, it seems that Jodrell bank was asked to monitor the Venera-4 landing (4) on Venus in October 1967. The reason for the Soviet interest was probably also that their own ground station network was not very capable in those early days and they wanted some back-up capability in case of a crisis. In effect, this also happened, when the Soviet ground stations lost contact with Venera-1 five days after launch and asked Jodrell Bank to try to detect signals from the probe when it passed near Venus three months later - but, alas, to no avail.
>
>
> |
51,366 | I've just listened to the short BBC News audio podcast clip [How British academics spied on the superpowers](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06w64jq):
>
> Tim O’Brien from the Jodrell Bank radio telescope discusses 50 year old recordings which show how Britain monitored Soviet space missions - and shared the findings with the Soviet Union.
>
>
>
He does indeed describe something more like assistance than spying (my attempt at transcription):
>
> The Russians used to send Jodrell all the coordinates and the frequencies they were using, so that we could track these spacecraft, and of course we would then announce this to the world.
>
>
> And I suppose in part, maybe, verify that they were really doing what they claimed to be doing, because when people would claim that they weren’t really technologically capable of doing this… because there was obviously a big political battle between these two superpowers.
>
>
> So it had this sort-of role, even to the extent that Jodrell would track the spacecraft, and record the signals on to tape, and a Russian would fly into Ringway airport in Manchester as it was then, and someone from here would drive up… get off the plane and hand them a tape, and they’d head off to Moscow with that recording.
>
>
>
Was this purely *scientific camaraderie* (pardon the pun), or inter-government cooperation or something else? Clearly the Soviet Union's space program benefited from both data and PR; did the UK benefit as well? | 2019/03/02 | [
"https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/51366",
"https://history.stackexchange.com",
"https://history.stackexchange.com/users/33008/"
] | **SHORT ANSWER**
Jodrell Bank's first 'coup', tracking [Sputnik 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_1) in 1957 (without Soviet assistance), put it in the news and helped secure funding. It also led to a congratulatory telegram from the Soviets.
After doubts were expressed about [Luna 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_1) (Jan 1959) being real, the Soviets sent the coordinates for [Luna 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_2) (Sept 1959) to Jodrell Bank head [Bernard Lovell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lovell) to verify. This put Jodrell Bank in the news again.
Lovell, apparently both returning a favour and in expectation of future information to which would again boost the prestige and importance of Jodrell Bank (as well as lead to continued cooperation which would increase Britain's international profile in astronomy), sent the data recordings to the Soviets. Jodrell Bank subsequently received coordinates for [Lunar 3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_3) (which sent the first ever pictures of the far side of the moon) in Oct 1959 and again sent recorded data to Moscow.
After Luna 3, direct requests from the Soviets seem to have ended. Instead, transmission frequencies were published by [TASS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TASS), but there was continued cooperation which also included the US, despite Cold War tensions. Lovell also visited the Soviet Union in 1963. However, relations between Jodrell Bank and the Soviet Academy of Sciences took something of a knock upon the publication of the [Luna 9](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_9) photographs in January 1966.
Looking at the broader picture, these exchanges between Jodrell Bank and the Soviets occurred during the [Khrushchev Thaw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchev_Thaw#International_relations), when the Soviet premier turned to the idea of [peaceful coexistence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaceful_coexistence) with the West.
---
**DETAILED ANSWER**
The tracking of Sputnik (1957) put Jodrell Bank in the news and secured funding. This from the University of Manchester [History Department blog](https://uomhistory.com/2017/02/02/hidden-cold-war-history-at-jodrell-bank-observatory/):
>
> The Jodrell Bank Observatory was catapulted to a position of global
> prominence, Lovell’s critics were silenced, and new funds poured in –
> not only from the British government, but also from the United States.
>
>
>
Bernard Lovell had
>
> struggled to find the necessary resources to complete the telescope....Government funding for the project proved inadequate and
> controversial....The project was heavily
> criticized in Parliament as a boondoggle, and there were even calls to
> have him arrested on charges of overspending public money, especially
> since it was still unclear what purpose the telescope served.
>
>
>
Further, there was much conflict between him and the engineers. This provided another reason as:
>
> At Jodrell Bank the satellite was used to show the public harmony of
> engineers and astronomers, and the successful demonstration of working
> telescopes.
>
>
>
*Source: John Agar, [Science and Spectacle: The Work of Jodrell Bank in Post-war British Culture](https://books.google.com.ph/books/about/Science_and_Spectacle.html?id=gsWHRgnmtaMC&redir_esc=y)*
Agar further notes that:
>
> The Soviet satellite was therefore appropriated differently by British
> groups....For Jodrell Bank, Sputnik was used to demonstrate the
> efficacy of their radio telescope. Why was this necessary?...to manage
> internal divisions and contests of responsibility, and to counter
> criticism of the construction of the telescope by the constitution of
> public authority.
>
>
>
The fact that Jodrell Bank could track Sputnik was of [huge interest to the US](https://uomhistory.com/2017/02/02/hidden-cold-war-history-at-jodrell-bank-observatory/):
>
> Desperate to monitor Soviet rocket launches, and to use Jodrell Bank’s
> facilities to track their own rapidly expanding efforts, both the US
> Air Force and NASA were soon paying substantial amounts for access to
> the telescope.
>
>
>
Further, for a while it was the only telescope able to track an ICBM. [Thus](https://uomhistory.com/2017/02/02/hidden-cold-war-history-at-jodrell-bank-observatory/),
>
> The Jodrell Bank telescope briefly became an “early warning device”
> for a Soviet nuclear attack.
>
>
>
As you suggested in a comment, the providing of tapes to the Soviets was quite likely in acknowledgement of the Luna II (September 1959) coordinates received by Jodrell Bank. There was an exchange of information which was mutually beneficial, and perhaps a little professional courtesy also played a part as [the Soviets](https://rylandscollections.wordpress.com/2017/10/04/sputnik-and-jodrell-bank-radio-telescope/)
>
> even sent him [Lovell] a telegram of thanks
>
>
>
following the Sputnik publicity.
This well-sourced [Jodrell Bank Centre for Astrophysics (UOM) article](http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/history/tracking/part1.html) notes that Lovell was initially not overly enthusiastic about trying to track Luna II as they had failed to track Luna I (January 1959). However,
>
> The duty controller at Jodrell Bank informed Sir Bernard that the
> Russians 'had launched a rocket which would reach the moon on Sunday
> evening'. A reporter phoned and asked what Jodrell Bank 'was going to
> do about it'? To which Sir Bernard replied 'I am going to play
> cricket'. Having been unable to track Luna 1 and receiving very little help from the Russians in locating that probe he was not so keen on wasting the observatory's time on another moon probe.
>
>
>
When Lovell returned to his office in the evening, "in his own words"
>
> "And there, with the paper streaming
> out on the floor, was a message from Moscow giving precise details
> details of the frequencies of the transmitters in the Lunik and the
> co-ordinates for the latitude and longitude of Jodrell bank giving the
> time of lunar impact as 10 p.m. the following evening".
>
>
>
Further data from the Soviets followed the next day, and Jodrell bank was then able to confirm to the world
>
> that an object made by humans had travelled from the earth to another
> heavenly body!
>
>
>
Jodrell Bank's involvement in confirming this was not without controversy as some saw it as
>
> 'aiding and abetting the "Commies'".
>
>
>
*Source: September 18 letter cited by John Agar, Science and Spectacle*
Lovell's belief, though, was that
>
> large radio telescopes could guarantee Britain a position of influence
> between the USA and USSR
>
>
>
In short, until Jodrell Bank tracked Sputnik, Britain had declined from being at the forefront of astronomy to no more than a bit player. For Lovell, the facilities at Jodrell Bank were an opportunity to put Britain back in the limelight. Cooperating with both the Americans and the Soviets was an opportunity Lovell intended to exploit.
*Source: Agar*
Thus, later, [on the 1st of November](http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/jodrell/jodrole1.htm#lunawhizz),
>
> a telegram was sent to AN USSR asking for "co-ordinates for the next
> transmission from Luna 3", and the first batch of tapes of signals
> from Luna 2 and 3 were sent to Prof. Nesmeyanov of AN USSR on 9
> December 1959. In the accompanying letter Prof. Lovell thanked the
> Academy for the data with pointing information for the Jodrell Bank
> telescope. The final batch of Luna 3 tapes were sent to Akademi Nauk
> on 14 January 1960.
>
>
>
No direct communication seems to have taken place between Jodrell Bank and the Soviets for subsequent luna (4 to 14) missions: instead, the Soviets published navigation fixes in TASS. Nonetheless, there was [further cooperation](https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/kennedyjf/xxv/6024.htm) as
>
> Two Soviet scientists came to Jodrell Bank in June 1961 to search for
> signals from the Venus probe.
>
>
>
[On the American side](https://www.nasa.gov/50th/50th_magazine/coldWarCoOp.html), President Eisenhower had been making attempts at cooperating in space with the Soviets since 1957 but the latter were cagey. However, a [meeting between the Americans and the Soviets](https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4209/ch2-3.htm) did take place in March 1962. Neither this nor other proposals made any real headway at the time, though.
On the British side, in [June and July of 1963, Lovell](https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4209/ch2-4.htm)
>
> was the guest of the Soviet Academy of Sciences on an unprecedented
> tour, for a Western scientist, of the major optical and radio
> observatories.
>
>
>
His impressions and details of his discussions were duly passed on to the Americans and [from this trip stemmed](https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/kennedyjf/xxv/6024.htm)
>
> a cooperative program arranged between Jodrell Bank and the Deep Space
> Tracking Center at Yevpatoriya
>
>
>
and there were also [communication experiments](https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19660001946.pdf) in early 1964 between Jodrell Bank (working with the US) and
and the Soviet Gorky State University
facility in Zimenki.
---
For the Soviets, Jodrell Bank helped them to [prove to the world that their claims were true](https://uomhistory.com/2017/02/02/hidden-cold-war-history-at-jodrell-bank-observatory/):
>
> The Soviet Union also envisioned an important role for the Jodrell
> Bank Observatory, which could provide independent verification of its
> accomplishments. When the Soviet Union launched its Luna-1 rocket into
> space in January 1959, many believed it had never happened. As a
> result, when it launched the Luna-2 rocket in September 1959, Soviet
> authorities sent Jodrell Bank the rocket’s coordinates and
> frequencies; soon afterward, Jodrell Bank confirmed its existence.
>
>
>
Nonetheless, in late 1950s at least, there were still doubters, even at Jodrell Bank; Lovell, though, was not one of them. | Alla Masevich writes in the memoirs under the name "Stars and Satellites in My Life":
>
> In fact for Lovell such request was an important reason for advertizing of the telescope. For the first time from the USSR asked for the help, and it, but not in the USA.
>
>
>
<http://www.ras.ru/FStorage/download.aspx?id=7780a8cf-35f6-4024-8541-69b1adaeeea6>
Alla Genrikhovna Masevich (October 9, 1918 — May 6, 2008) was a Soviet astronomer.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/AOyvJ.jpg)
Page 42 Mashine translation:
>
> Stay in Great Britain was for me very interesting.
> I communicated to the English colleagues, did a bit of traveling over the country,
> learned a lot of new about life and traditions of British, visited
> The University of London and radio-astronomical observatory about Manchester with which director – professor Lovell – we have old friendly relations.
>
>
> Пребывание в Великобритании было для меня очень интересным. Я пообщалась с английскими коллегами, поездила по стране, узнала много нового о жизни и традициях англичан, посетила Лондонский университет и радиоастрономическую обсерваторию около Манчестера, с директором которой – профессором Ловеллом – у нас давние дружеские связи.
>
>
>
Page 44
>
> On observatory where the biggest functioned in the world (for those times) the radio telescope, I happened to arrive once again for longer time. In the 1960th years for the first time in the USSR and in the world the spaceship to Venus was started. Unfortunately, touch with it(him) was lost after an exit to the set orbit.
> It was possible to catch its(his) weak signals still by means of the big radio telescope, and the decision to address Lovell was made. There was it quite peculiar. I was unexpectedly invited to the minister of electronics and radio engineering, at once carried out to its(his) office where there was already M.V. Keldysh, then Chief theorist of astronautics. I was asked, whether the truth that I well know Lovell whether I can call him by phone and to ask for permission to arrive with the assistant to observatory for search of signals of our Venus on its telescope. To call it was offered from an office now. Phone numbers at me at to itself was not, but, having received my consent, it was got right there, told me data on the alleged assistant and connected with Great Britain. Lovell was on the place, quickly agreed on arrival also promised to assist in the fastest receipt of a visa.
> As then gossiped, the ministerial administration was shocked by my determination, a manner of a conversation and the received result, and Keldysh praised me later "for maintenance of honor Academies". **In fact for Lovell such request was an important reason for advertizing of the telescope. For the first time from the USSR asked for the help, and it, but not in the USA.**
> As a result all were satisfied, and that the most surprising, the next day we already took off for Great Britain. Visas (exit of the USSR and entrance to Great Britain), tickets and currency – everything appeared without any efforts from our party(side) as on wave of a magic wand. Never before I at such speed did not leave.
>
>
> На обсерваторию, где функционировал самый большой в мире (по тем временам) радиотелескоп, мне довелось еще раз приехать на более длительное время. В 1960-х годах впервые в СССР и в мире был запущен космический корабль к Венере. К сожалению, связь с ним была потеряна после выхода на заданную орбиту.
> Уловить его слабые сигналы еще можно было с помощью большого радиотелескопа, и было принято решение обратиться к Ловеллу. Происходило это довольно своеобразно. Меня неожиданно пригласили к министру по электронике и радиотехнике, сразу провели в его кабинет, где уже находился М.В. Келдыш, тогда Главный теоретик космонавтики. Меня спросили, правда ли, что я хорошо знаю Ловелла, могу ли позвонить ему по телефону и попросить разрешения приехать с помощником на обсерваторию для поиска сигналов нашей «Венеры» на его телескопе. Звонить предлагалось сейчас же из кабинета. Номера телефона у меня при себе не было, но, получив мое согласие, его тут же раздобыли, сообщили мне данные о предполагаемом помощнике и соединили с Великобританией. Ловелл был на месте, быстро дал согласие на приезд и обещал содействовать в скорейшем получении визы.
> Как потом сплетничали, министерское начальство было потрясено моей решительностью, манерой разговора и полученным результатом, а Келдыш меня после похвалил «за поддержание чести Академии». **В действительности же для Ловелла такая просьба была важным поводом для рекламы своего телескопа. Впервые из СССР обратились за помощью, и именно к нему, а не в США.**
> В результате все остались довольны, и, что самое удивительное, на другой день мы уже вылетели в Великобританию. Визы (выездные из СССР и въездные в Великобританию), билеты и валюта – все появлялось без каких-либо усилий с нашей стороны, как по мановению волшебной палочки. Никогда еще я в таком темпе не выезжала.
>
>
>
Page 45:
>
> Every day called from Moscow, and we reported about signals,
> which we caught in the next vicinity of the set frequency.
> Unfortunately, it is every time there was not that. But we, probably
> spoiled blood the English military, getting on them closed frequencies and calling them in a conversation with Moscow. In some cases, having heard a signal, the next day to find it at this frequency it was not possible any more. Lovell every other day organized press conferences, and to us to pass from journalists was not at all. So proceeded the whole week. Eventually, it became clear that Venera it is irrevocably lost, and on it our mission ended. Having thanked owners, we went home.
>
>
> Каждый день звонили из Москвы, и мы сообщали о сигналах, которые мы ловили в ближайшей окрестности заданной частоты. К сожалению, это каждый раз оказывалось не то. Но мы, видимо, попортили кровь английским военным, попадая на их закрытые частоты и называя их в разговоре с Москвой. В ряде случаев, услышав сигнал, на другой день обнаружить его на этой частоте уже не удавалось. Ловелл через день устраивал пресс-конференции, а нам проходу от журналистов вовсе не было. Так продолжалось целую неделю. В конце концов, стало ясно, что «Венера» безвозвратно утеряна, и на этом наша миссия закончилась. Поблагодарив хозяев, мы отправились домой.
>
>
>
Page 46:
>
> The second arrival of professor Lovell on Zvenigorod observatory took place after search, joint with us signals of Venera. In acknowledgement of his participation to us allowed to show him the tracking station of a long-distance communication in Eupatoria where then still any foreigner was not. We visited with him on the Crimean observatory also went to Eupatoria by car, sent from the tracking station. It was the interesting trip. At an entrance to the tracking station no guard was visible. On fields lengthways roads lay and young people in undershirts sunbathed then, there and shorts. Gate of the station were open wide open. At the building us employees, all in civilian summer clothes met. All to us showed, treated in Russian, with binge and sent back.
> Guard again any was not. Lovell was very pleased, but was perplexed how it is possible to leave such important object without any guard.
> Professor Lovell wrote later very flatter article about me, published in the USA in "Saturday Review" ( September 7, 1963). On its basis then mine appeared the biography in the Current Biography magazine (Volume 25, Number 1, January 1964).
>
>
> Второй приезд профессора Ловелла на Звенигородскую обсерваторию состоялся уже после совместных с нами поисков сигналов «Венеры». В знак благодарности за его участие нам разрешили показать ему станцию дальней связи в Евпатории, где тогда еще ни одного иностранца не было. Мы побывали с ним на Крымской обсерватории и поехали в Евпаторию на машине, присланной со станции. Это была интересная поездка. При подъезде к станции никакой охраны не было видно. На полях вдоль дороги лежали и загорали то тут, то там молодые люди в майках и шортах. Ворота станции были открыты настежь. У здания нас встретили сотрудники, все в штатской летней одежде. Все нам показали, угостили по-русски, с выпивкой и отправили обратно.
> Охраны опять никакой не было. Ловелл остался очень доволен, но недоумевал, как можно такой важный объект оставлять безо всякой охраны.
> Профессор Ловелл написал позднее очень лестную статью обо мне, опубликованную в США в «Сатердей Ревыо» (Saturday Review September 7, 1963)
>
>
> |
51,366 | I've just listened to the short BBC News audio podcast clip [How British academics spied on the superpowers](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06w64jq):
>
> Tim O’Brien from the Jodrell Bank radio telescope discusses 50 year old recordings which show how Britain monitored Soviet space missions - and shared the findings with the Soviet Union.
>
>
>
He does indeed describe something more like assistance than spying (my attempt at transcription):
>
> The Russians used to send Jodrell all the coordinates and the frequencies they were using, so that we could track these spacecraft, and of course we would then announce this to the world.
>
>
> And I suppose in part, maybe, verify that they were really doing what they claimed to be doing, because when people would claim that they weren’t really technologically capable of doing this… because there was obviously a big political battle between these two superpowers.
>
>
> So it had this sort-of role, even to the extent that Jodrell would track the spacecraft, and record the signals on to tape, and a Russian would fly into Ringway airport in Manchester as it was then, and someone from here would drive up… get off the plane and hand them a tape, and they’d head off to Moscow with that recording.
>
>
>
Was this purely *scientific camaraderie* (pardon the pun), or inter-government cooperation or something else? Clearly the Soviet Union's space program benefited from both data and PR; did the UK benefit as well? | 2019/03/02 | [
"https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/51366",
"https://history.stackexchange.com",
"https://history.stackexchange.com/users/33008/"
] | >
> **Question:**
>
> Why did Jodrell Bank assist the Soviet Union to collect data from their spacecraft in the mid 1960's?....... He (BBC's Tim O’Brien) does indeed describe something more like assistance than spying.....
>
>
> Was this purely scientific camaraderie (pardon the pun), or inter-government cooperation or something else? Clearly the Soviet Union's space program benefited from both data and PR; did the UK benefit as well?
>
>
>
Rather than documenting the assistance provided by Jodrell Bank Observatory, I wanted to answer the question by explaining and defending their assistance.
An outside observer might mistake the assistance provided by Jodrell Bank Observatory as collaboration with an existential enemy, but that would be to mis characterize what was happening. Nothing so nefarious was occurring from the perspective of Jodrell Bank. Scientific achievement requires collaboration. Jodrell Bank Observatory at the University of Manchester mission statement places science at the heart of their purpose. As such assisting the Soviet Union with their independent observations falls within the parameters of the Jodrell Bank stated purpose. From the Soviet's perspective they were publicizing their own achievements, but certainly they were also pursuing and advancing human achievement in an important way. Scientific achievement worthy of the participation by other interested scientific institutions.
I think asked a different way, why did the often secretive Soviet Union request and facilitate the access of an independent western scientific establishment like Jodrell Bank, at the height of the Cold War?
The answer is that while aspects of the Soviet space program were secretive it was also an important public relations front of the Cold War.
During the Cold War, both super powers were motivated to compete across many fronts, to publicize their achievements and demonstrate their leadership and superiority. In this way they separated themselves as global leaders. Perhaps "the" global leader. Both super powers advertised the benefits of their forms of government by publicly celebrating their achievements. The Cold War had many fronts beyond the military confrontations and proxy wars. These fronts included athletics, diplomatic, cultural, economic, and artistic. Even the strategic board game of chess was for a time the front lines of the cold war. Additionally technological achievements; including what became the space race was from the earliest stages of sputnik, October 4, 1957, used to captured the imaginations of western observers and dramatically demonstrate the superiority of Soviet science. The huge stir Sputnik caused in the west, was in part, a public relations coupe for the Soviet Union. One which the Soviets would repeat many times:
* **[Laika](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika)**, Nov 3, 1957, the first living being to achieve orbit
* **[Belka and Strelka](http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20171027-the-stray-dogs-that-paved-the-way-to-the-stars)**, Aug 19, 1960, first animals to successfully orbit the earth.
* **[Luna 1 probe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_1)**, Jan 2, 1959, first probe to perform a fly by the moon
* **[Luna 2 probe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_2)**, Sept 14, 1959, first human artifact to reach the moon
* **[Yuri Gagarin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin)**, Apr 12, 1961, first human in space
* **[Valentina Tereshkova](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentina_Tereshkova)**, Jun 16, 1963, first woman in space
* **[Alexei Leonov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Leonov)**, Mar 18, 1965, first spacewalk.
These are just a few of the notable records set by the Soviet Union which motivated the west to develop and commit vast resources pursuing their own space program.
An important component of the space programs in both the Soviet Union as well as the United States were public relations. The Soviet Union required independent scientific organizations to verify and publicize their accomplishments just like the United States did in order to achieve the notoriety from those achievements. | As can be gathered by the other answers, it's a complex topic. The [University of Manchester](http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/history/tracking/part1.html) website gives some extra information.
Firstly, the Soviets were probably annoyed that no-one outside of the the Soviet Union believed that the Luna 1 probe, launched on 2 January 1959 existed. For the next successful launch, the Soviets decided to get Jodrell Bank to verify the existence of Luna 2, by providing pointing and frequency data.
>
> In a sense, the USSR also used the capabilities of Jodrell Bank. In many circles the first Soviet lunar probe, Luna 1, launched on 2 January 1959, was simply not believed to have existed (See (8)). This must have annoyed the Soviet authorities enormously, despite the fact that the transmission frequencies were announced directly after launch. For their second successful launch they decided to try to engage Jodrell Bank as a source of independent verification of any claim of success. Therefore the USSR sent detailed instructions to Jodrell Bank how to find their second lunar probe, Luna 2, that was launched on 12 September 1959 and hit the moon the next day. Jodrell Bank provided scientific proof that Luna 2 actually reached the moon, and the USSR continued to provide pointing and frequency data to Jodrell Bank for a number of years.
>
>
>
The other reason was because the Soviet ground station network was not very capable in those early days and they wanted a back-up in case of a crisis.
>
> Probably the Soviet Union felt uneasy about asking for such help after the US "Deep-Space Collection" programme was underway and Jodrell bank became part of this intelligence network. Despite any such possible misgivings, it seems that Jodrell bank was asked to monitor the Venera-4 landing (4) on Venus in October 1967. The reason for the Soviet interest was probably also that their own ground station network was not very capable in those early days and they wanted some back-up capability in case of a crisis. In effect, this also happened, when the Soviet ground stations lost contact with Venera-1 five days after launch and asked Jodrell Bank to try to detect signals from the probe when it passed near Venus three months later - but, alas, to no avail.
>
>
> |
51,366 | I've just listened to the short BBC News audio podcast clip [How British academics spied on the superpowers](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06w64jq):
>
> Tim O’Brien from the Jodrell Bank radio telescope discusses 50 year old recordings which show how Britain monitored Soviet space missions - and shared the findings with the Soviet Union.
>
>
>
He does indeed describe something more like assistance than spying (my attempt at transcription):
>
> The Russians used to send Jodrell all the coordinates and the frequencies they were using, so that we could track these spacecraft, and of course we would then announce this to the world.
>
>
> And I suppose in part, maybe, verify that they were really doing what they claimed to be doing, because when people would claim that they weren’t really technologically capable of doing this… because there was obviously a big political battle between these two superpowers.
>
>
> So it had this sort-of role, even to the extent that Jodrell would track the spacecraft, and record the signals on to tape, and a Russian would fly into Ringway airport in Manchester as it was then, and someone from here would drive up… get off the plane and hand them a tape, and they’d head off to Moscow with that recording.
>
>
>
Was this purely *scientific camaraderie* (pardon the pun), or inter-government cooperation or something else? Clearly the Soviet Union's space program benefited from both data and PR; did the UK benefit as well? | 2019/03/02 | [
"https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/51366",
"https://history.stackexchange.com",
"https://history.stackexchange.com/users/33008/"
] | >
> **Question:**
>
> Why did Jodrell Bank assist the Soviet Union to collect data from their spacecraft in the mid 1960's?....... He (BBC's Tim O’Brien) does indeed describe something more like assistance than spying.....
>
>
> Was this purely scientific camaraderie (pardon the pun), or inter-government cooperation or something else? Clearly the Soviet Union's space program benefited from both data and PR; did the UK benefit as well?
>
>
>
Rather than documenting the assistance provided by Jodrell Bank Observatory, I wanted to answer the question by explaining and defending their assistance.
An outside observer might mistake the assistance provided by Jodrell Bank Observatory as collaboration with an existential enemy, but that would be to mis characterize what was happening. Nothing so nefarious was occurring from the perspective of Jodrell Bank. Scientific achievement requires collaboration. Jodrell Bank Observatory at the University of Manchester mission statement places science at the heart of their purpose. As such assisting the Soviet Union with their independent observations falls within the parameters of the Jodrell Bank stated purpose. From the Soviet's perspective they were publicizing their own achievements, but certainly they were also pursuing and advancing human achievement in an important way. Scientific achievement worthy of the participation by other interested scientific institutions.
I think asked a different way, why did the often secretive Soviet Union request and facilitate the access of an independent western scientific establishment like Jodrell Bank, at the height of the Cold War?
The answer is that while aspects of the Soviet space program were secretive it was also an important public relations front of the Cold War.
During the Cold War, both super powers were motivated to compete across many fronts, to publicize their achievements and demonstrate their leadership and superiority. In this way they separated themselves as global leaders. Perhaps "the" global leader. Both super powers advertised the benefits of their forms of government by publicly celebrating their achievements. The Cold War had many fronts beyond the military confrontations and proxy wars. These fronts included athletics, diplomatic, cultural, economic, and artistic. Even the strategic board game of chess was for a time the front lines of the cold war. Additionally technological achievements; including what became the space race was from the earliest stages of sputnik, October 4, 1957, used to captured the imaginations of western observers and dramatically demonstrate the superiority of Soviet science. The huge stir Sputnik caused in the west, was in part, a public relations coupe for the Soviet Union. One which the Soviets would repeat many times:
* **[Laika](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika)**, Nov 3, 1957, the first living being to achieve orbit
* **[Belka and Strelka](http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20171027-the-stray-dogs-that-paved-the-way-to-the-stars)**, Aug 19, 1960, first animals to successfully orbit the earth.
* **[Luna 1 probe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_1)**, Jan 2, 1959, first probe to perform a fly by the moon
* **[Luna 2 probe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_2)**, Sept 14, 1959, first human artifact to reach the moon
* **[Yuri Gagarin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin)**, Apr 12, 1961, first human in space
* **[Valentina Tereshkova](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentina_Tereshkova)**, Jun 16, 1963, first woman in space
* **[Alexei Leonov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Leonov)**, Mar 18, 1965, first spacewalk.
These are just a few of the notable records set by the Soviet Union which motivated the west to develop and commit vast resources pursuing their own space program.
An important component of the space programs in both the Soviet Union as well as the United States were public relations. The Soviet Union required independent scientific organizations to verify and publicize their accomplishments just like the United States did in order to achieve the notoriety from those achievements. | Alla Masevich writes in the memoirs under the name "Stars and Satellites in My Life":
>
> In fact for Lovell such request was an important reason for advertizing of the telescope. For the first time from the USSR asked for the help, and it, but not in the USA.
>
>
>
<http://www.ras.ru/FStorage/download.aspx?id=7780a8cf-35f6-4024-8541-69b1adaeeea6>
Alla Genrikhovna Masevich (October 9, 1918 — May 6, 2008) was a Soviet astronomer.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/AOyvJ.jpg)
Page 42 Mashine translation:
>
> Stay in Great Britain was for me very interesting.
> I communicated to the English colleagues, did a bit of traveling over the country,
> learned a lot of new about life and traditions of British, visited
> The University of London and radio-astronomical observatory about Manchester with which director – professor Lovell – we have old friendly relations.
>
>
> Пребывание в Великобритании было для меня очень интересным. Я пообщалась с английскими коллегами, поездила по стране, узнала много нового о жизни и традициях англичан, посетила Лондонский университет и радиоастрономическую обсерваторию около Манчестера, с директором которой – профессором Ловеллом – у нас давние дружеские связи.
>
>
>
Page 44
>
> On observatory where the biggest functioned in the world (for those times) the radio telescope, I happened to arrive once again for longer time. In the 1960th years for the first time in the USSR and in the world the spaceship to Venus was started. Unfortunately, touch with it(him) was lost after an exit to the set orbit.
> It was possible to catch its(his) weak signals still by means of the big radio telescope, and the decision to address Lovell was made. There was it quite peculiar. I was unexpectedly invited to the minister of electronics and radio engineering, at once carried out to its(his) office where there was already M.V. Keldysh, then Chief theorist of astronautics. I was asked, whether the truth that I well know Lovell whether I can call him by phone and to ask for permission to arrive with the assistant to observatory for search of signals of our Venus on its telescope. To call it was offered from an office now. Phone numbers at me at to itself was not, but, having received my consent, it was got right there, told me data on the alleged assistant and connected with Great Britain. Lovell was on the place, quickly agreed on arrival also promised to assist in the fastest receipt of a visa.
> As then gossiped, the ministerial administration was shocked by my determination, a manner of a conversation and the received result, and Keldysh praised me later "for maintenance of honor Academies". **In fact for Lovell such request was an important reason for advertizing of the telescope. For the first time from the USSR asked for the help, and it, but not in the USA.**
> As a result all were satisfied, and that the most surprising, the next day we already took off for Great Britain. Visas (exit of the USSR and entrance to Great Britain), tickets and currency – everything appeared without any efforts from our party(side) as on wave of a magic wand. Never before I at such speed did not leave.
>
>
> На обсерваторию, где функционировал самый большой в мире (по тем временам) радиотелескоп, мне довелось еще раз приехать на более длительное время. В 1960-х годах впервые в СССР и в мире был запущен космический корабль к Венере. К сожалению, связь с ним была потеряна после выхода на заданную орбиту.
> Уловить его слабые сигналы еще можно было с помощью большого радиотелескопа, и было принято решение обратиться к Ловеллу. Происходило это довольно своеобразно. Меня неожиданно пригласили к министру по электронике и радиотехнике, сразу провели в его кабинет, где уже находился М.В. Келдыш, тогда Главный теоретик космонавтики. Меня спросили, правда ли, что я хорошо знаю Ловелла, могу ли позвонить ему по телефону и попросить разрешения приехать с помощником на обсерваторию для поиска сигналов нашей «Венеры» на его телескопе. Звонить предлагалось сейчас же из кабинета. Номера телефона у меня при себе не было, но, получив мое согласие, его тут же раздобыли, сообщили мне данные о предполагаемом помощнике и соединили с Великобританией. Ловелл был на месте, быстро дал согласие на приезд и обещал содействовать в скорейшем получении визы.
> Как потом сплетничали, министерское начальство было потрясено моей решительностью, манерой разговора и полученным результатом, а Келдыш меня после похвалил «за поддержание чести Академии». **В действительности же для Ловелла такая просьба была важным поводом для рекламы своего телескопа. Впервые из СССР обратились за помощью, и именно к нему, а не в США.**
> В результате все остались довольны, и, что самое удивительное, на другой день мы уже вылетели в Великобританию. Визы (выездные из СССР и въездные в Великобританию), билеты и валюта – все появлялось без каких-либо усилий с нашей стороны, как по мановению волшебной палочки. Никогда еще я в таком темпе не выезжала.
>
>
>
Page 45:
>
> Every day called from Moscow, and we reported about signals,
> which we caught in the next vicinity of the set frequency.
> Unfortunately, it is every time there was not that. But we, probably
> spoiled blood the English military, getting on them closed frequencies and calling them in a conversation with Moscow. In some cases, having heard a signal, the next day to find it at this frequency it was not possible any more. Lovell every other day organized press conferences, and to us to pass from journalists was not at all. So proceeded the whole week. Eventually, it became clear that Venera it is irrevocably lost, and on it our mission ended. Having thanked owners, we went home.
>
>
> Каждый день звонили из Москвы, и мы сообщали о сигналах, которые мы ловили в ближайшей окрестности заданной частоты. К сожалению, это каждый раз оказывалось не то. Но мы, видимо, попортили кровь английским военным, попадая на их закрытые частоты и называя их в разговоре с Москвой. В ряде случаев, услышав сигнал, на другой день обнаружить его на этой частоте уже не удавалось. Ловелл через день устраивал пресс-конференции, а нам проходу от журналистов вовсе не было. Так продолжалось целую неделю. В конце концов, стало ясно, что «Венера» безвозвратно утеряна, и на этом наша миссия закончилась. Поблагодарив хозяев, мы отправились домой.
>
>
>
Page 46:
>
> The second arrival of professor Lovell on Zvenigorod observatory took place after search, joint with us signals of Venera. In acknowledgement of his participation to us allowed to show him the tracking station of a long-distance communication in Eupatoria where then still any foreigner was not. We visited with him on the Crimean observatory also went to Eupatoria by car, sent from the tracking station. It was the interesting trip. At an entrance to the tracking station no guard was visible. On fields lengthways roads lay and young people in undershirts sunbathed then, there and shorts. Gate of the station were open wide open. At the building us employees, all in civilian summer clothes met. All to us showed, treated in Russian, with binge and sent back.
> Guard again any was not. Lovell was very pleased, but was perplexed how it is possible to leave such important object without any guard.
> Professor Lovell wrote later very flatter article about me, published in the USA in "Saturday Review" ( September 7, 1963). On its basis then mine appeared the biography in the Current Biography magazine (Volume 25, Number 1, January 1964).
>
>
> Второй приезд профессора Ловелла на Звенигородскую обсерваторию состоялся уже после совместных с нами поисков сигналов «Венеры». В знак благодарности за его участие нам разрешили показать ему станцию дальней связи в Евпатории, где тогда еще ни одного иностранца не было. Мы побывали с ним на Крымской обсерватории и поехали в Евпаторию на машине, присланной со станции. Это была интересная поездка. При подъезде к станции никакой охраны не было видно. На полях вдоль дороги лежали и загорали то тут, то там молодые люди в майках и шортах. Ворота станции были открыты настежь. У здания нас встретили сотрудники, все в штатской летней одежде. Все нам показали, угостили по-русски, с выпивкой и отправили обратно.
> Охраны опять никакой не было. Ловелл остался очень доволен, но недоумевал, как можно такой важный объект оставлять безо всякой охраны.
> Профессор Ловелл написал позднее очень лестную статью обо мне, опубликованную в США в «Сатердей Ревыо» (Saturday Review September 7, 1963)
>
>
> |
30,477 | I was clearing the "low quality posts" queue, and I [marked an answer as "Looks OK"](https://math.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/1225861). The system then told me that this was just an audit and I failed the test. I believe I was right to accept it, and so I'm asking for guidance here.
The question was *[Calculus book suggestion](https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2609436/calculus-book-suggestion)*, and the answer (now deleted), was:
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/9jYvT.png)
The question explicitly asks for a good calculus book for beginners. The answer provides a good calculus book for beginners, and even gives a link to the book. As far as I'm concerned this is **not**
* spam,
* offensive,
* off-topic,
* abusive.
Then why is it marked as such? | 2019/07/12 | [
"https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/30477",
"https://math.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/users/186296/"
] | I'd say the culprit is that last sentence:
>
> This much anticipated second edition of the most successful calculus text published in the last two decades retains the best of the first edition while introducing important advances and refinements.
>
>
>
That just **reeks** of advertisement. It says absolutely nothing of content about the book itself, and sounds like it was quoted from a dust jacket. | Because sometimes there is a bigger pattern that regular users don't see where certain websites, books, or otherwise commercial venues post their links here.
What might seem to you as a single post with a valid link can easily be considered spam when zooming out. Unfortunately, regular users don't have these tools to zoom out (except long-term users with memory of elephant). |
1,174,175 | My office is a converted garage about 30 feet from my house.
I have a coaxial cable already running from my house to the office.
I want to attach a Ethernet cable from my DSL modem, in my office, to a computer in my house.
Since I already have the coaxial cable installed, I bought two coax to Ethernet converters (NVA-P-860-BP78 Video Balun), but when I hooked them up I am getting no signal. It was my understanding that an Ethernet signal could travel over a coaxial cable.
Is that wrong? Any ideas why this isn't working? | 2017/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/1174175",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/692724/"
] | You bought the wrong thing.
These converters convert analog video-signal (on coax) to [UTP (unshielded twisted pair)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair#Unshielded_twisted_pair_.28UTP.29) so you can forward the analog signal from a CCTV camera via existing UTP network cable to somewhere else and there convert it back to analog video to display on a monitor or feed it to a VHS.
camera <-> coax <-> UTP <-> coax <-> monitor
You can't use them in reverse to do: PC <-> UTP <-> coax <-> UTP <-> router.
Ether does run over coax. Actually it started there before we had UTP cables.
But for that you needed ethernet cards with a coax plug (and some other stuff as well, it isn't a plain point-to-point connection). And anyway it used a different type of coax than television does. Television coax won't work with these old network cards.
These things went the way of the dodo around the year 2000 and good riddance too. It was very slow compared to modern network technology.
What you really need is a MoCA (Multimedia over Coax Alliance) converter.
See this page for certified equipment and vendors: <http://www.mocalliance.org/products/index.htm>
Be advised that MoCA stuff is probably more expensive then pulling a CAT5E or CAT6 cable to the garage. (If the existing coax is in a pipe you may be able to attach an UTP cable to one end and use the coax to pull the UTP through the pipe.) | Presumably you have power in the garage (or why have network connectivity out there) so maybe powerline adaptors might be worth looking at. It won't use the coax but is that mandatory? |
1,174,175 | My office is a converted garage about 30 feet from my house.
I have a coaxial cable already running from my house to the office.
I want to attach a Ethernet cable from my DSL modem, in my office, to a computer in my house.
Since I already have the coaxial cable installed, I bought two coax to Ethernet converters (NVA-P-860-BP78 Video Balun), but when I hooked them up I am getting no signal. It was my understanding that an Ethernet signal could travel over a coaxial cable.
Is that wrong? Any ideas why this isn't working? | 2017/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/1174175",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/692724/"
] | You bought the wrong thing.
These converters convert analog video-signal (on coax) to [UTP (unshielded twisted pair)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair#Unshielded_twisted_pair_.28UTP.29) so you can forward the analog signal from a CCTV camera via existing UTP network cable to somewhere else and there convert it back to analog video to display on a monitor or feed it to a VHS.
camera <-> coax <-> UTP <-> coax <-> monitor
You can't use them in reverse to do: PC <-> UTP <-> coax <-> UTP <-> router.
Ether does run over coax. Actually it started there before we had UTP cables.
But for that you needed ethernet cards with a coax plug (and some other stuff as well, it isn't a plain point-to-point connection). And anyway it used a different type of coax than television does. Television coax won't work with these old network cards.
These things went the way of the dodo around the year 2000 and good riddance too. It was very slow compared to modern network technology.
What you really need is a MoCA (Multimedia over Coax Alliance) converter.
See this page for certified equipment and vendors: <http://www.mocalliance.org/products/index.htm>
Be advised that MoCA stuff is probably more expensive then pulling a CAT5E or CAT6 cable to the garage. (If the existing coax is in a pipe you may be able to attach an UTP cable to one end and use the coax to pull the UTP through the pipe.) | A better answer may be to investigate using a WiFi router in your office and just use WiFi to connect up within your house. 30 feet really isn't very far for modern WiFi routers (especially if you get one that's high power) even through walls and structure. May be a more turn-key solution than trying to route Ethernet across your coax cable. |
1,174,175 | My office is a converted garage about 30 feet from my house.
I have a coaxial cable already running from my house to the office.
I want to attach a Ethernet cable from my DSL modem, in my office, to a computer in my house.
Since I already have the coaxial cable installed, I bought two coax to Ethernet converters (NVA-P-860-BP78 Video Balun), but when I hooked them up I am getting no signal. It was my understanding that an Ethernet signal could travel over a coaxial cable.
Is that wrong? Any ideas why this isn't working? | 2017/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/1174175",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/692724/"
] | You bought the wrong thing.
These converters convert analog video-signal (on coax) to [UTP (unshielded twisted pair)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair#Unshielded_twisted_pair_.28UTP.29) so you can forward the analog signal from a CCTV camera via existing UTP network cable to somewhere else and there convert it back to analog video to display on a monitor or feed it to a VHS.
camera <-> coax <-> UTP <-> coax <-> monitor
You can't use them in reverse to do: PC <-> UTP <-> coax <-> UTP <-> router.
Ether does run over coax. Actually it started there before we had UTP cables.
But for that you needed ethernet cards with a coax plug (and some other stuff as well, it isn't a plain point-to-point connection). And anyway it used a different type of coax than television does. Television coax won't work with these old network cards.
These things went the way of the dodo around the year 2000 and good riddance too. It was very slow compared to modern network technology.
What you really need is a MoCA (Multimedia over Coax Alliance) converter.
See this page for certified equipment and vendors: <http://www.mocalliance.org/products/index.htm>
Be advised that MoCA stuff is probably more expensive then pulling a CAT5E or CAT6 cable to the garage. (If the existing coax is in a pipe you may be able to attach an UTP cable to one end and use the coax to pull the UTP through the pipe.) | Assuming the coax you have installed is RG59 or RG6 type, I suggest using MoCA. The current generation of MoCA adapters achieve gigabit speeds, and the signal coexists with cable TV if you have that. I'm currently running these in three rooms in my house with great success.
See [this answer](https://superuser.com/questions/974317/moca-from-scratch/974383#974383) where I give a complete description of the setup, with a diagram, that shows how it integrates with cable TV. |
1,174,175 | My office is a converted garage about 30 feet from my house.
I have a coaxial cable already running from my house to the office.
I want to attach a Ethernet cable from my DSL modem, in my office, to a computer in my house.
Since I already have the coaxial cable installed, I bought two coax to Ethernet converters (NVA-P-860-BP78 Video Balun), but when I hooked them up I am getting no signal. It was my understanding that an Ethernet signal could travel over a coaxial cable.
Is that wrong? Any ideas why this isn't working? | 2017/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/1174175",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/692724/"
] | Presumably you have power in the garage (or why have network connectivity out there) so maybe powerline adaptors might be worth looking at. It won't use the coax but is that mandatory? | A better answer may be to investigate using a WiFi router in your office and just use WiFi to connect up within your house. 30 feet really isn't very far for modern WiFi routers (especially if you get one that's high power) even through walls and structure. May be a more turn-key solution than trying to route Ethernet across your coax cable. |
1,174,175 | My office is a converted garage about 30 feet from my house.
I have a coaxial cable already running from my house to the office.
I want to attach a Ethernet cable from my DSL modem, in my office, to a computer in my house.
Since I already have the coaxial cable installed, I bought two coax to Ethernet converters (NVA-P-860-BP78 Video Balun), but when I hooked them up I am getting no signal. It was my understanding that an Ethernet signal could travel over a coaxial cable.
Is that wrong? Any ideas why this isn't working? | 2017/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/1174175",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/692724/"
] | Presumably you have power in the garage (or why have network connectivity out there) so maybe powerline adaptors might be worth looking at. It won't use the coax but is that mandatory? | Assuming the coax you have installed is RG59 or RG6 type, I suggest using MoCA. The current generation of MoCA adapters achieve gigabit speeds, and the signal coexists with cable TV if you have that. I'm currently running these in three rooms in my house with great success.
See [this answer](https://superuser.com/questions/974317/moca-from-scratch/974383#974383) where I give a complete description of the setup, with a diagram, that shows how it integrates with cable TV. |
12,228 | I recently migrated a user on Outlook with a pop account (PST file) to Exchange (OST file). We need to import his contacts from the PST file to the new Calendar in his Exchange box.
I added the PST folder back into Outlook and did a file export of just the calendar items to a new PST file. I then used Import to import that file into the Calendar folder in his Exchange mailbox. The import routine complains that the import file doesn't contain calendar data (the file is 5 mb).
I used this method on another Outlook user going from POP to Exchange with no problems.
Any ideas?
jpe | 2009/05/26 | [
"https://serverfault.com/questions/12228",
"https://serverfault.com",
"https://serverfault.com/users/1973/"
] | My first suggestion would be to open the PST file up in Outlook and check that the calendar data is present. If it is then you could look at exporting just the calendar data to another PST folder and try importing that. | I have seen this happen occasionaly when a .pst file is damaged but I cannot see this being to blame as you have only just exported.
You could also try exporting to a differnt format such as .csv which you can open in excel/open office to prove that it contains data, and you can also import into the mailbox from this as well. |
12,228 | I recently migrated a user on Outlook with a pop account (PST file) to Exchange (OST file). We need to import his contacts from the PST file to the new Calendar in his Exchange box.
I added the PST folder back into Outlook and did a file export of just the calendar items to a new PST file. I then used Import to import that file into the Calendar folder in his Exchange mailbox. The import routine complains that the import file doesn't contain calendar data (the file is 5 mb).
I used this method on another Outlook user going from POP to Exchange with no problems.
Any ideas?
jpe | 2009/05/26 | [
"https://serverfault.com/questions/12228",
"https://serverfault.com",
"https://serverfault.com/users/1973/"
] | My first suggestion would be to open the PST file up in Outlook and check that the calendar data is present. If it is then you could look at exporting just the calendar data to another PST folder and try importing that. | I have a total hack ...
* create an account on Google
* Use [Google Calendar Sync](http://www.google.com/support/calendar/bin/answer.py?answer=89955) to load the entries from the *old* account to Google
* Close up the old PST file
* Force the Google Sync to go the other direction |
12,228 | I recently migrated a user on Outlook with a pop account (PST file) to Exchange (OST file). We need to import his contacts from the PST file to the new Calendar in his Exchange box.
I added the PST folder back into Outlook and did a file export of just the calendar items to a new PST file. I then used Import to import that file into the Calendar folder in his Exchange mailbox. The import routine complains that the import file doesn't contain calendar data (the file is 5 mb).
I used this method on another Outlook user going from POP to Exchange with no problems.
Any ideas?
jpe | 2009/05/26 | [
"https://serverfault.com/questions/12228",
"https://serverfault.com",
"https://serverfault.com/users/1973/"
] | My first suggestion would be to open the PST file up in Outlook and check that the calendar data is present. If it is then you could look at exporting just the calendar data to another PST folder and try importing that. | Are we thinking the .PST is somehow corrupted? Have you tried any of the repair steps? TechRepublic has a good article explaining the steps. Just google for "Repair corrupt Outlook PST files." |
13,528 | Let's say your board is 33mm thick, and you want to have two 15mm boards instead (saw is 3mm thick). A friend told me that I have to use a bandsaw for this task but what if you only have a table saw?
The problem is that something (or a very unlucky someone) will have to hold the board using a mere 15mm of the edge. I made the following jig that uses a fine-tooth saw blade to grip the less-than-half of the edge from one side and two screws to hold it from the other.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/jIE4i.jpg)
This solution works, but it is obviously not ideal since I have to remove the riving knife. Also, the piece tends to fall down the saw disc opening.
Is there a better solution?
**EDIT**
Thank you for the great advice! I will dismantle the jig and use the rip fence with push sticks, zero clearance insert, feather board, and a non-protruding riving knife. | 2022/01/30 | [
"https://woodworking.stackexchange.com/questions/13528",
"https://woodworking.stackexchange.com",
"https://woodworking.stackexchange.com/users/5579/"
] | >
> Would this require a professional's help?
>
>
>
Although you could get a pro to help with this I believe the project is well within the grasp of a first-timer given the limited scope of what's needed here.
It is actually the preparatory stages are where most of the hands-on time and effort will be expended, by comparison the finishing steps (which you might possibly be more concerned with) require far less time, skill and effort to complete to a high standard.... finishing can be at core a simple process, it is only woodworkers who tend to unnecessarily complicate it :-)
Prep
----
From what we can see from the photos your board is flat enough (certainly sufficiently flat for a shelf) that it just needs to be smoothed off before finish application.
You can do this final smoothing by sanding or scraping. While I would normally recommend scraping over sanding there's a learning curve to scraping and a few gotchas, so if you're going to do all the work yourself sanding is probably your best option.
**Sanding**
Finish sanding is a process of progressively removing the scratches from the previous grit while keeping the surface flat.
I'm guessing the existing texture was produced by 80 grit, so starting at 120 is appropriate and you'll go from there. You don't need to sand to a particularly high grit so the progression of sanding grits you can use is fairly short, e.g. 120, 150, 220.
You can sand more finely than this (and many do, especially when power sanding) but beyond a certain point you see zero benefit after finish application.
For just the one shelf you can do this work entirely by hand; back the paper1 with a hard block and be careful not to 'lean over' when sanding near edges to maintain the flat surface and prevent unintentional rounding of crisp edges.
Sanding manually is a lot more work than with a random-orbit or other finish sander but for just one board it won't be too bad, and for a single project buying a power sander is arguably overkill. If you intend to do some future projects starting from bare wood however a sander does make more sense; although in that case I would strongly recommend you look into [scraping](https://woodworking.stackexchange.com/questions/1134/what-are-the-differences-between-sanding-and-scraping/1159?r=SearchResults&s=1%7C36.3431#1159) as an option or at least an adjunct to sanding.
Finishing
---------
Given your requirements for what you want it to look like you can use many common (traditional) finishing options as well as some modern products. I'm going to recommend three, in my approximate order of preference (please note that other people would order this list differently).
**Wiping varnish**
Everything you need to know to get started on this is in a previous Answer, [here](https://woodworking.stackexchange.com/questions/5891/how-to-fix-very-light-scratches-in-polyurethane-finish/5893#5893) in an excerpt from **Flexner on Finishing** by Bob Flexner. In recent years wiping varnish has, understandably, become a very popular finishing option amongst amateurs and pros alike because it's nearly impossible to screw up. As a result there is tons more guidance available on this online if you feel you need to read or see more to get comfortable with the process before you try it for yourself. But I promise this is literally as easy as it seems.
Wiping varnish has one chief advantage over competitive wipe-on finishes such as "Scandinavian oil" and "Danish oil" and "Tung Oil Finish" (which are all basically the same3) in that it will dry hard through and through. It can be applied in *exactly* the same manner while providing more protection, although admittedly you're unlikely to need the extra protection for a shelf.
As you're finishing just one board for now and you'll be diluting at least 1:1, possibly as much as 1:3, only a small can will be needed. Don't forget to buy mineral spirits as well :-)
**Lacquer**
There's a good chance that your Herman Miller piece is finished in lacquer as it was the primary commercial finish through much of the second half of the 20th century — almost all MCM furniture has lacquer on it if still bearing their original finish.
This doesn't mean you need to use lacquer to match the look and feel however.
Many finishes are approximately equal in looks once fully dried, in fact the blended finishes mentioned above were originally formulated to match the lacquer finish on imported Scandi furniture!
Because you don't have spray equipment you're looking at rattle-can versions. This is in general an expensive way to buy any finish, but for a one-off it makes sense. In the US there are many brands (Deft, Mohawk, Rust-Oleum, ReRanch, Minwax to name a few) *and* different types on the market, so you'll need to do some shopping around if you want to go with lacquer. As long as you get an untinted or clear lacquer it doesn't matter hugely what type you get as far as final looks go, but an acrylic lacquer should be lower or low in VOCs making it a bit more user-friendly than some others.
Spraying a uniform coat is not rocket science but can take a couple of tries to get the knack. I suggest you use the underside to practice on. Don't fret if you get bad results, lacquers can be wiped off when fresh using solvent, or sanded off after drying if necessary.
**A modern wax/oil finish**
I wouldn't normally plug just one product but I'm going to specifically refer to Rubio Monocoat here. I don't use it myself and have no affiliation, this is based on the opinions of a few woodworkers I trust.
Monocoat seems to consistently perform, to live up to its hype.... in strong contrast to one or two competitor products.
It is incredibly easy to use, honestly even easier than wiping varnish. As you might expect the name refers to the fact that the manufacturer instructions are to apply just the one coat, but, numerous users report that they get a better-looking and more consistent finish by applying a second coat. So one or two coats and done, with an easy-as-pie application method.
So where's the downside? Depending on what you're used to paying for finish you might experience, ah, 'some' sticker shock — RRP for a smallish can is 70 bucks, versus $30-60 *for nearly three times as much* polyurethane4 O\_O
---
Additional point:
>
> I treat it with Feed-N-Wax Wood Polish & Conditioner about once a month.
>
>
>
You shouldn't need to polish a wooden surface anything like this often except for high-traffic items that see a lot of abrasion, or if using a product that wears off too easily.
With a hard finish in good condition you might only wax once a year, if that. Regular dusting and the occasional wipe with a damp cloth *if needed* is all that the bulk of furniture needs, with very occasional waxing for a modicum of added protection and for maintaining sheen (or adding back sheen lost to wear and cleaning).
A simple paste wax like the venerable Johnson's product is generally to be preferred for this purpose.
---
1 Paper is a shorthand here, "sandpaper" now commonly means actual sandpaper as well as film-backed, cloth-backed and screens-based abrasives.
2 Also bear in mind the top, front edge and maybe both ends need to be sanded more smoothly. Depending on the final positioning of the shelf the bottom might only be sanded further as practice for sanding the top.
3 They are some blend of varnish and oil, thinned down with additional spirits.
4 Which if converted to wiping varnish will be extended to double to quadruple the volume! | There is no better teacher than experience. Finishing isn't rocket science but some practice on a board that is less important will help you get a feel for what happens at each step of the process and it will help you know if the process you have followed will give you the result you desire.
An easy finish to apply is a Danish oil and it does create a low luster finish. The process boils down to wiping or brushing on the oil and wiping off any excess. Here are the details:
1. Start with a silky surface.
* Start with an P80 grit sandpaper and then move to a 120 grit. This can be done by hand or with a random orbital sander.
* Wet down the surface with a little water to raise the grain and sand with a 220 grit sandpaper.
2. Three coats creates a durable finish.
* Brush or wipe on the oil - there are several makers of Danish oil, I've had good success with the Watco brand. Flood the surface with oil then stand back and watch how it soaks in. Some areas of the wood will be thirstier than others and will soak up more finish. They will look duller than the rest of the surface. Reapply oil to these areas until they can't drink any more.
* After about 30 minutes wipe the surface with a clean rag to remove any oil that remains.
* Then, for the next 30 minutes, check the surface periodically for dots of oil seeping back out. Wipe off any that you find.
3. The next day work the entire surface with 000 steel wool. After the steel wool rub wipe the surface with a clean rag to remove the dust.
4. The second and third coats go on like the first. Each coat needs a full day of drying time. After the third coat work the entire surface with a 0000 steel wool.
5. After the third coat is dry a coat of wax will give the wood a nice depth and feel.
Most finishing processes have similar steps with slight variations. Experimenting with this process on some scrap wood will allow you to gain experience and see how the finish will look before working on your expensive wood. |
13,528 | Let's say your board is 33mm thick, and you want to have two 15mm boards instead (saw is 3mm thick). A friend told me that I have to use a bandsaw for this task but what if you only have a table saw?
The problem is that something (or a very unlucky someone) will have to hold the board using a mere 15mm of the edge. I made the following jig that uses a fine-tooth saw blade to grip the less-than-half of the edge from one side and two screws to hold it from the other.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/jIE4i.jpg)
This solution works, but it is obviously not ideal since I have to remove the riving knife. Also, the piece tends to fall down the saw disc opening.
Is there a better solution?
**EDIT**
Thank you for the great advice! I will dismantle the jig and use the rip fence with push sticks, zero clearance insert, feather board, and a non-protruding riving knife. | 2022/01/30 | [
"https://woodworking.stackexchange.com/questions/13528",
"https://woodworking.stackexchange.com",
"https://woodworking.stackexchange.com/users/5579/"
] | There is no better teacher than experience. Finishing isn't rocket science but some practice on a board that is less important will help you get a feel for what happens at each step of the process and it will help you know if the process you have followed will give you the result you desire.
An easy finish to apply is a Danish oil and it does create a low luster finish. The process boils down to wiping or brushing on the oil and wiping off any excess. Here are the details:
1. Start with a silky surface.
* Start with an P80 grit sandpaper and then move to a 120 grit. This can be done by hand or with a random orbital sander.
* Wet down the surface with a little water to raise the grain and sand with a 220 grit sandpaper.
2. Three coats creates a durable finish.
* Brush or wipe on the oil - there are several makers of Danish oil, I've had good success with the Watco brand. Flood the surface with oil then stand back and watch how it soaks in. Some areas of the wood will be thirstier than others and will soak up more finish. They will look duller than the rest of the surface. Reapply oil to these areas until they can't drink any more.
* After about 30 minutes wipe the surface with a clean rag to remove any oil that remains.
* Then, for the next 30 minutes, check the surface periodically for dots of oil seeping back out. Wipe off any that you find.
3. The next day work the entire surface with 000 steel wool. After the steel wool rub wipe the surface with a clean rag to remove the dust.
4. The second and third coats go on like the first. Each coat needs a full day of drying time. After the third coat work the entire surface with a 0000 steel wool.
5. After the third coat is dry a coat of wax will give the wood a nice depth and feel.
Most finishing processes have similar steps with slight variations. Experimenting with this process on some scrap wood will allow you to gain experience and see how the finish will look before working on your expensive wood. | I have found that a hand-planed surface can be smoother than almost anything produced with sandpaper. After all, planing cuts the wood; sanding grinds them. If you have a sharp smoothing plane, there you go - no sanding needed.
If you aren't going the hand-planing route, then I would encourage you to clean up your board between each sanding with either a shop vac, a tack cloth, or both. Yes, it's an extra step; I've found it helpful.
You might also consider shellac as your finish. It's very easy to mix up (you SHOULD mix your own) and you can get super-blonde shellac that won't contribute much to the final color (I'm assuming you like the color). Secondly, shellac gives a decent amount of protection against most "general shelf use-type stuff."
Ask a group of *n* woodworkers how to finish something and you'll end up with at least *n + 1* answers... |
13,528 | Let's say your board is 33mm thick, and you want to have two 15mm boards instead (saw is 3mm thick). A friend told me that I have to use a bandsaw for this task but what if you only have a table saw?
The problem is that something (or a very unlucky someone) will have to hold the board using a mere 15mm of the edge. I made the following jig that uses a fine-tooth saw blade to grip the less-than-half of the edge from one side and two screws to hold it from the other.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/jIE4i.jpg)
This solution works, but it is obviously not ideal since I have to remove the riving knife. Also, the piece tends to fall down the saw disc opening.
Is there a better solution?
**EDIT**
Thank you for the great advice! I will dismantle the jig and use the rip fence with push sticks, zero clearance insert, feather board, and a non-protruding riving knife. | 2022/01/30 | [
"https://woodworking.stackexchange.com/questions/13528",
"https://woodworking.stackexchange.com",
"https://woodworking.stackexchange.com/users/5579/"
] | >
> Would this require a professional's help?
>
>
>
Although you could get a pro to help with this I believe the project is well within the grasp of a first-timer given the limited scope of what's needed here.
It is actually the preparatory stages are where most of the hands-on time and effort will be expended, by comparison the finishing steps (which you might possibly be more concerned with) require far less time, skill and effort to complete to a high standard.... finishing can be at core a simple process, it is only woodworkers who tend to unnecessarily complicate it :-)
Prep
----
From what we can see from the photos your board is flat enough (certainly sufficiently flat for a shelf) that it just needs to be smoothed off before finish application.
You can do this final smoothing by sanding or scraping. While I would normally recommend scraping over sanding there's a learning curve to scraping and a few gotchas, so if you're going to do all the work yourself sanding is probably your best option.
**Sanding**
Finish sanding is a process of progressively removing the scratches from the previous grit while keeping the surface flat.
I'm guessing the existing texture was produced by 80 grit, so starting at 120 is appropriate and you'll go from there. You don't need to sand to a particularly high grit so the progression of sanding grits you can use is fairly short, e.g. 120, 150, 220.
You can sand more finely than this (and many do, especially when power sanding) but beyond a certain point you see zero benefit after finish application.
For just the one shelf you can do this work entirely by hand; back the paper1 with a hard block and be careful not to 'lean over' when sanding near edges to maintain the flat surface and prevent unintentional rounding of crisp edges.
Sanding manually is a lot more work than with a random-orbit or other finish sander but for just one board it won't be too bad, and for a single project buying a power sander is arguably overkill. If you intend to do some future projects starting from bare wood however a sander does make more sense; although in that case I would strongly recommend you look into [scraping](https://woodworking.stackexchange.com/questions/1134/what-are-the-differences-between-sanding-and-scraping/1159?r=SearchResults&s=1%7C36.3431#1159) as an option or at least an adjunct to sanding.
Finishing
---------
Given your requirements for what you want it to look like you can use many common (traditional) finishing options as well as some modern products. I'm going to recommend three, in my approximate order of preference (please note that other people would order this list differently).
**Wiping varnish**
Everything you need to know to get started on this is in a previous Answer, [here](https://woodworking.stackexchange.com/questions/5891/how-to-fix-very-light-scratches-in-polyurethane-finish/5893#5893) in an excerpt from **Flexner on Finishing** by Bob Flexner. In recent years wiping varnish has, understandably, become a very popular finishing option amongst amateurs and pros alike because it's nearly impossible to screw up. As a result there is tons more guidance available on this online if you feel you need to read or see more to get comfortable with the process before you try it for yourself. But I promise this is literally as easy as it seems.
Wiping varnish has one chief advantage over competitive wipe-on finishes such as "Scandinavian oil" and "Danish oil" and "Tung Oil Finish" (which are all basically the same3) in that it will dry hard through and through. It can be applied in *exactly* the same manner while providing more protection, although admittedly you're unlikely to need the extra protection for a shelf.
As you're finishing just one board for now and you'll be diluting at least 1:1, possibly as much as 1:3, only a small can will be needed. Don't forget to buy mineral spirits as well :-)
**Lacquer**
There's a good chance that your Herman Miller piece is finished in lacquer as it was the primary commercial finish through much of the second half of the 20th century — almost all MCM furniture has lacquer on it if still bearing their original finish.
This doesn't mean you need to use lacquer to match the look and feel however.
Many finishes are approximately equal in looks once fully dried, in fact the blended finishes mentioned above were originally formulated to match the lacquer finish on imported Scandi furniture!
Because you don't have spray equipment you're looking at rattle-can versions. This is in general an expensive way to buy any finish, but for a one-off it makes sense. In the US there are many brands (Deft, Mohawk, Rust-Oleum, ReRanch, Minwax to name a few) *and* different types on the market, so you'll need to do some shopping around if you want to go with lacquer. As long as you get an untinted or clear lacquer it doesn't matter hugely what type you get as far as final looks go, but an acrylic lacquer should be lower or low in VOCs making it a bit more user-friendly than some others.
Spraying a uniform coat is not rocket science but can take a couple of tries to get the knack. I suggest you use the underside to practice on. Don't fret if you get bad results, lacquers can be wiped off when fresh using solvent, or sanded off after drying if necessary.
**A modern wax/oil finish**
I wouldn't normally plug just one product but I'm going to specifically refer to Rubio Monocoat here. I don't use it myself and have no affiliation, this is based on the opinions of a few woodworkers I trust.
Monocoat seems to consistently perform, to live up to its hype.... in strong contrast to one or two competitor products.
It is incredibly easy to use, honestly even easier than wiping varnish. As you might expect the name refers to the fact that the manufacturer instructions are to apply just the one coat, but, numerous users report that they get a better-looking and more consistent finish by applying a second coat. So one or two coats and done, with an easy-as-pie application method.
So where's the downside? Depending on what you're used to paying for finish you might experience, ah, 'some' sticker shock — RRP for a smallish can is 70 bucks, versus $30-60 *for nearly three times as much* polyurethane4 O\_O
---
Additional point:
>
> I treat it with Feed-N-Wax Wood Polish & Conditioner about once a month.
>
>
>
You shouldn't need to polish a wooden surface anything like this often except for high-traffic items that see a lot of abrasion, or if using a product that wears off too easily.
With a hard finish in good condition you might only wax once a year, if that. Regular dusting and the occasional wipe with a damp cloth *if needed* is all that the bulk of furniture needs, with very occasional waxing for a modicum of added protection and for maintaining sheen (or adding back sheen lost to wear and cleaning).
A simple paste wax like the venerable Johnson's product is generally to be preferred for this purpose.
---
1 Paper is a shorthand here, "sandpaper" now commonly means actual sandpaper as well as film-backed, cloth-backed and screens-based abrasives.
2 Also bear in mind the top, front edge and maybe both ends need to be sanded more smoothly. Depending on the final positioning of the shelf the bottom might only be sanded further as practice for sanding the top.
3 They are some blend of varnish and oil, thinned down with additional spirits.
4 Which if converted to wiping varnish will be extended to double to quadruple the volume! | I have found that a hand-planed surface can be smoother than almost anything produced with sandpaper. After all, planing cuts the wood; sanding grinds them. If you have a sharp smoothing plane, there you go - no sanding needed.
If you aren't going the hand-planing route, then I would encourage you to clean up your board between each sanding with either a shop vac, a tack cloth, or both. Yes, it's an extra step; I've found it helpful.
You might also consider shellac as your finish. It's very easy to mix up (you SHOULD mix your own) and you can get super-blonde shellac that won't contribute much to the final color (I'm assuming you like the color). Secondly, shellac gives a decent amount of protection against most "general shelf use-type stuff."
Ask a group of *n* woodworkers how to finish something and you'll end up with at least *n + 1* answers... |
891 | I recently got a cyclocomputer that measures cadence and I'm not sure what a good speed is or what benefit I would get by altering my natural cadence. On good, level tarmac, I find myself doing about 75-80 RPM. I'll get North of 100 when sprinting away from a stoplight, and down in the 50-60 range when mounting a moderate incline.
I don't know what might impact cadence, but I'm 5'11 (180 centimeters), 150 pounds (68 kilograms, 10.7 stone). In addition to biking 30-40 miles a week, I do CrossFit, a combination of gymnastic and weightlifting exercises, so I've got quite a bit of raw strength. | 2010/09/12 | [
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/891",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/17/"
] | When you start bouncing in the saddle, then your cadence is too high and you should back it down some... | Cadence smadence, this old debate's being rehashed again.
Back in the olden days, like 100 years ago, there was only 1 gear on a bike, usually fixed. Euro racers varied their cadence from 20-180 RPM depending on incline, road conditions and wind speed. They could travel over 200 miles on a 40 lbs fixie.
For 30+ years the standard gearing on a racing bike was cranks 42/52, freewheel 13 or 14-24. Cyclists had to get off their rear ends and pump themselves up hills at low RPM and spin like crazy downhill or in a sprint. These guys mastered a very wide range of cadences and had more efficient cardiovascular systems and nicer muscular bodies, much more so than cyclists today.
Bernard Hinault, the 2nd greatest cyclist in history had this to say about perfect cadence, "Do both low and high cadence training, low cadence is good, it builds strength."
Now would you rather have the legs of Bernard Hinault or Andy Schleck?
All this emphasis on high cadence pedalling only is based on artificially hyperactive EPO bloodstreams of pro riders where cardio trumps muscle. Normal non dopers can't pedal efficiently like Lance Armstrong at 110 rpm. I say mash away until your knees say otherwise. Do spin too, for heart strength.
Just listen to your body, mash when you can't breath, spin when your legs are thrashed.
Go back and forth and you'll be a better all round cyclist and get the buff legs.
Spin only, and you'll be skinny.
When you get old with creaky arthritic knees never dip below 80 RPM on climbs, 90 RPM on flats.
Ride a single speed in 10 mph+ headwinds if you wanna force the issue from both extremes and get a great leg/heart workout.
Stop fixating on the cadence thing. Some serious mashing is good for you at regular intervals. Sprint intervals are even better, especially if you don't get your minimum mileage in. |
891 | I recently got a cyclocomputer that measures cadence and I'm not sure what a good speed is or what benefit I would get by altering my natural cadence. On good, level tarmac, I find myself doing about 75-80 RPM. I'll get North of 100 when sprinting away from a stoplight, and down in the 50-60 range when mounting a moderate incline.
I don't know what might impact cadence, but I'm 5'11 (180 centimeters), 150 pounds (68 kilograms, 10.7 stone). In addition to biking 30-40 miles a week, I do CrossFit, a combination of gymnastic and weightlifting exercises, so I've got quite a bit of raw strength. | 2010/09/12 | [
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/891",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/17/"
] | As I became more experienced I noticed that I began to spin at a higher cadence. I typically stay between 85-95 now, while when I started I spun at around 70.
But cadence is a very individual thing, and bike fit can play a large part in how comfortable you are at a particular cadence. If you find that you want to pedal faster, but have difficulty maintaining that cadence you might investigate slightly shorter cranks. By the same token, you may be a Jan Ulrich type, who mashes the pedals with tremendous force but a lower cadence - longer cranks may be the ticket for you.
Ultimately, ride at the cadence that feels comfortable to you. | I'd rather see at least 70 most of the time, and never drop below 60 if there's any way to avoid it. Then again, I've always pedaled a high cadence -- even now (in my mid-40's) I break 160 RPM sprinting, and on a smooth road, I'm typically around 85-90 RPM. |
891 | I recently got a cyclocomputer that measures cadence and I'm not sure what a good speed is or what benefit I would get by altering my natural cadence. On good, level tarmac, I find myself doing about 75-80 RPM. I'll get North of 100 when sprinting away from a stoplight, and down in the 50-60 range when mounting a moderate incline.
I don't know what might impact cadence, but I'm 5'11 (180 centimeters), 150 pounds (68 kilograms, 10.7 stone). In addition to biking 30-40 miles a week, I do CrossFit, a combination of gymnastic and weightlifting exercises, so I've got quite a bit of raw strength. | 2010/09/12 | [
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/891",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/17/"
] | As I became more experienced I noticed that I began to spin at a higher cadence. I typically stay between 85-95 now, while when I started I spun at around 70.
But cadence is a very individual thing, and bike fit can play a large part in how comfortable you are at a particular cadence. If you find that you want to pedal faster, but have difficulty maintaining that cadence you might investigate slightly shorter cranks. By the same token, you may be a Jan Ulrich type, who mashes the pedals with tremendous force but a lower cadence - longer cranks may be the ticket for you.
Ultimately, ride at the cadence that feels comfortable to you. | One aspect of cadence that hasn't been mentioned is that, ideally, the point of your gears is to allow you to maintain your optimal cadence and force on the pedals, while only varying your ground speed. If you had a ideal bicycle with an infinite number of gears, your pedaling cadence and force would be completely independent of uphills, flats, and downhills — you would simply go faster or slower based on conditions.
Obviously, you don't have an ideal bicycle, but the number of gears on modern bikes is more than enough to closely approximate it. So find a cadence that works for you and try to stay as close to it as possible. Eventually it will become second nature. You will spin faster in a sprint to increase your peak power, or slower to recover after the sprint, but outside of those, keep it constant.
Generally speaking, your optimal cadence will be where the load on both your anaerobic (strength/muscle) and aerobic (endurance/cardiovascular) systems are sustainable. At the constant power output, keeping your RPMs too low will tire your muscles, but ramping them up too high will exceed the capacity of your heart to keep up. However, it's much easier to increase your cardiovascular endurance than to increase your muscular endurance; that's what your heart excels at in the first place. So pushing your RPMs higher will (to a point), strengthen your heart and allow you to maintain a higher power output for longer periods of time. |
891 | I recently got a cyclocomputer that measures cadence and I'm not sure what a good speed is or what benefit I would get by altering my natural cadence. On good, level tarmac, I find myself doing about 75-80 RPM. I'll get North of 100 when sprinting away from a stoplight, and down in the 50-60 range when mounting a moderate incline.
I don't know what might impact cadence, but I'm 5'11 (180 centimeters), 150 pounds (68 kilograms, 10.7 stone). In addition to biking 30-40 miles a week, I do CrossFit, a combination of gymnastic and weightlifting exercises, so I've got quite a bit of raw strength. | 2010/09/12 | [
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/891",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/17/"
] | As I became more experienced I noticed that I began to spin at a higher cadence. I typically stay between 85-95 now, while when I started I spun at around 70.
But cadence is a very individual thing, and bike fit can play a large part in how comfortable you are at a particular cadence. If you find that you want to pedal faster, but have difficulty maintaining that cadence you might investigate slightly shorter cranks. By the same token, you may be a Jan Ulrich type, who mashes the pedals with tremendous force but a lower cadence - longer cranks may be the ticket for you.
Ultimately, ride at the cadence that feels comfortable to you. | When you start bouncing in the saddle, then your cadence is too high and you should back it down some... |
891 | I recently got a cyclocomputer that measures cadence and I'm not sure what a good speed is or what benefit I would get by altering my natural cadence. On good, level tarmac, I find myself doing about 75-80 RPM. I'll get North of 100 when sprinting away from a stoplight, and down in the 50-60 range when mounting a moderate incline.
I don't know what might impact cadence, but I'm 5'11 (180 centimeters), 150 pounds (68 kilograms, 10.7 stone). In addition to biking 30-40 miles a week, I do CrossFit, a combination of gymnastic and weightlifting exercises, so I've got quite a bit of raw strength. | 2010/09/12 | [
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/891",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/17/"
] | As I became more experienced I noticed that I began to spin at a higher cadence. I typically stay between 85-95 now, while when I started I spun at around 70.
But cadence is a very individual thing, and bike fit can play a large part in how comfortable you are at a particular cadence. If you find that you want to pedal faster, but have difficulty maintaining that cadence you might investigate slightly shorter cranks. By the same token, you may be a Jan Ulrich type, who mashes the pedals with tremendous force but a lower cadence - longer cranks may be the ticket for you.
Ultimately, ride at the cadence that feels comfortable to you. | From experience and from what little I've read cadence beats power (and cadence with power is the winner) - in general you want to be turning the pedals more often with less effort in a smooth motion not stomping down each time.
To which end you probably want your cadence to be in the 90+ region as consistently as possible (including when climbing) I'm not quite sure where the ideal "band" is any more (is been a long while since I looked at this) but I think I was aiming for something like 85 to 105.
What I do recall, quite vividly, from racing the recumbent round velodromes was that changing down and getting the cadence back in band would usuall result in me going *faster* for a similar amount of effort (given that I had very little in reserve at the time).
I think that most of us (definitely the case for me at the moment) don't use a high enough cadence and I believe it is worth making the effort to pay attention to and to improve your cadence - but it is something you have to positively work at in the first instance. |
891 | I recently got a cyclocomputer that measures cadence and I'm not sure what a good speed is or what benefit I would get by altering my natural cadence. On good, level tarmac, I find myself doing about 75-80 RPM. I'll get North of 100 when sprinting away from a stoplight, and down in the 50-60 range when mounting a moderate incline.
I don't know what might impact cadence, but I'm 5'11 (180 centimeters), 150 pounds (68 kilograms, 10.7 stone). In addition to biking 30-40 miles a week, I do CrossFit, a combination of gymnastic and weightlifting exercises, so I've got quite a bit of raw strength. | 2010/09/12 | [
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/891",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/17/"
] | I've always heard that lower cadences tend to put more stress on the knees, and I've definitely felt more knee pain after grinding away on higher gears on hill climbs and such, vs when I'm spinning more lightly on flatter terrain.
It kind of makes sense when you think about it -- you have to apply higher pressure against the pedal riding a higher gear. That might also partially explain why the pros keep a higher cadence. They need to spare their joints as much wear as possible. | Cadence smadence, this old debate's being rehashed again.
Back in the olden days, like 100 years ago, there was only 1 gear on a bike, usually fixed. Euro racers varied their cadence from 20-180 RPM depending on incline, road conditions and wind speed. They could travel over 200 miles on a 40 lbs fixie.
For 30+ years the standard gearing on a racing bike was cranks 42/52, freewheel 13 or 14-24. Cyclists had to get off their rear ends and pump themselves up hills at low RPM and spin like crazy downhill or in a sprint. These guys mastered a very wide range of cadences and had more efficient cardiovascular systems and nicer muscular bodies, much more so than cyclists today.
Bernard Hinault, the 2nd greatest cyclist in history had this to say about perfect cadence, "Do both low and high cadence training, low cadence is good, it builds strength."
Now would you rather have the legs of Bernard Hinault or Andy Schleck?
All this emphasis on high cadence pedalling only is based on artificially hyperactive EPO bloodstreams of pro riders where cardio trumps muscle. Normal non dopers can't pedal efficiently like Lance Armstrong at 110 rpm. I say mash away until your knees say otherwise. Do spin too, for heart strength.
Just listen to your body, mash when you can't breath, spin when your legs are thrashed.
Go back and forth and you'll be a better all round cyclist and get the buff legs.
Spin only, and you'll be skinny.
When you get old with creaky arthritic knees never dip below 80 RPM on climbs, 90 RPM on flats.
Ride a single speed in 10 mph+ headwinds if you wanna force the issue from both extremes and get a great leg/heart workout.
Stop fixating on the cadence thing. Some serious mashing is good for you at regular intervals. Sprint intervals are even better, especially if you don't get your minimum mileage in. |
891 | I recently got a cyclocomputer that measures cadence and I'm not sure what a good speed is or what benefit I would get by altering my natural cadence. On good, level tarmac, I find myself doing about 75-80 RPM. I'll get North of 100 when sprinting away from a stoplight, and down in the 50-60 range when mounting a moderate incline.
I don't know what might impact cadence, but I'm 5'11 (180 centimeters), 150 pounds (68 kilograms, 10.7 stone). In addition to biking 30-40 miles a week, I do CrossFit, a combination of gymnastic and weightlifting exercises, so I've got quite a bit of raw strength. | 2010/09/12 | [
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/891",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/17/"
] | As I became more experienced I noticed that I began to spin at a higher cadence. I typically stay between 85-95 now, while when I started I spun at around 70.
But cadence is a very individual thing, and bike fit can play a large part in how comfortable you are at a particular cadence. If you find that you want to pedal faster, but have difficulty maintaining that cadence you might investigate slightly shorter cranks. By the same token, you may be a Jan Ulrich type, who mashes the pedals with tremendous force but a lower cadence - longer cranks may be the ticket for you.
Ultimately, ride at the cadence that feels comfortable to you. | Here's an anecdote: when I'm overtaken on a flat bike path, it's usually by a man who's wearing bike clothes and who's spinning faster than I am, and it happens when I'm going slowly because my legs are feeling tired. And if I downshift then to a faster cadence then I can suddenly go faster, and do a better job at keeping up with the person who just overtook me. |
891 | I recently got a cyclocomputer that measures cadence and I'm not sure what a good speed is or what benefit I would get by altering my natural cadence. On good, level tarmac, I find myself doing about 75-80 RPM. I'll get North of 100 when sprinting away from a stoplight, and down in the 50-60 range when mounting a moderate incline.
I don't know what might impact cadence, but I'm 5'11 (180 centimeters), 150 pounds (68 kilograms, 10.7 stone). In addition to biking 30-40 miles a week, I do CrossFit, a combination of gymnastic and weightlifting exercises, so I've got quite a bit of raw strength. | 2010/09/12 | [
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/891",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/17/"
] | From experience and from what little I've read cadence beats power (and cadence with power is the winner) - in general you want to be turning the pedals more often with less effort in a smooth motion not stomping down each time.
To which end you probably want your cadence to be in the 90+ region as consistently as possible (including when climbing) I'm not quite sure where the ideal "band" is any more (is been a long while since I looked at this) but I think I was aiming for something like 85 to 105.
What I do recall, quite vividly, from racing the recumbent round velodromes was that changing down and getting the cadence back in band would usuall result in me going *faster* for a similar amount of effort (given that I had very little in reserve at the time).
I think that most of us (definitely the case for me at the moment) don't use a high enough cadence and I believe it is worth making the effort to pay attention to and to improve your cadence - but it is something you have to positively work at in the first instance. | When you start bouncing in the saddle, then your cadence is too high and you should back it down some... |
891 | I recently got a cyclocomputer that measures cadence and I'm not sure what a good speed is or what benefit I would get by altering my natural cadence. On good, level tarmac, I find myself doing about 75-80 RPM. I'll get North of 100 when sprinting away from a stoplight, and down in the 50-60 range when mounting a moderate incline.
I don't know what might impact cadence, but I'm 5'11 (180 centimeters), 150 pounds (68 kilograms, 10.7 stone). In addition to biking 30-40 miles a week, I do CrossFit, a combination of gymnastic and weightlifting exercises, so I've got quite a bit of raw strength. | 2010/09/12 | [
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/891",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/17/"
] | Here's an anecdote: when I'm overtaken on a flat bike path, it's usually by a man who's wearing bike clothes and who's spinning faster than I am, and it happens when I'm going slowly because my legs are feeling tired. And if I downshift then to a faster cadence then I can suddenly go faster, and do a better job at keeping up with the person who just overtook me. | Cadence smadence, this old debate's being rehashed again.
Back in the olden days, like 100 years ago, there was only 1 gear on a bike, usually fixed. Euro racers varied their cadence from 20-180 RPM depending on incline, road conditions and wind speed. They could travel over 200 miles on a 40 lbs fixie.
For 30+ years the standard gearing on a racing bike was cranks 42/52, freewheel 13 or 14-24. Cyclists had to get off their rear ends and pump themselves up hills at low RPM and spin like crazy downhill or in a sprint. These guys mastered a very wide range of cadences and had more efficient cardiovascular systems and nicer muscular bodies, much more so than cyclists today.
Bernard Hinault, the 2nd greatest cyclist in history had this to say about perfect cadence, "Do both low and high cadence training, low cadence is good, it builds strength."
Now would you rather have the legs of Bernard Hinault or Andy Schleck?
All this emphasis on high cadence pedalling only is based on artificially hyperactive EPO bloodstreams of pro riders where cardio trumps muscle. Normal non dopers can't pedal efficiently like Lance Armstrong at 110 rpm. I say mash away until your knees say otherwise. Do spin too, for heart strength.
Just listen to your body, mash when you can't breath, spin when your legs are thrashed.
Go back and forth and you'll be a better all round cyclist and get the buff legs.
Spin only, and you'll be skinny.
When you get old with creaky arthritic knees never dip below 80 RPM on climbs, 90 RPM on flats.
Ride a single speed in 10 mph+ headwinds if you wanna force the issue from both extremes and get a great leg/heart workout.
Stop fixating on the cadence thing. Some serious mashing is good for you at regular intervals. Sprint intervals are even better, especially if you don't get your minimum mileage in. |
891 | I recently got a cyclocomputer that measures cadence and I'm not sure what a good speed is or what benefit I would get by altering my natural cadence. On good, level tarmac, I find myself doing about 75-80 RPM. I'll get North of 100 when sprinting away from a stoplight, and down in the 50-60 range when mounting a moderate incline.
I don't know what might impact cadence, but I'm 5'11 (180 centimeters), 150 pounds (68 kilograms, 10.7 stone). In addition to biking 30-40 miles a week, I do CrossFit, a combination of gymnastic and weightlifting exercises, so I've got quite a bit of raw strength. | 2010/09/12 | [
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/891",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com",
"https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/17/"
] | For any given speed, you can either spin at a higher cadence in a lower gear, or a lower cadence in a higher gear. The high cadence + low gear combination should reduce the strain on your joints since you don't have to push as hard. You just have to do it more often.
I like to ride around 90rpm and sometimes drift up to 100-110 especially if I'm trying to catch up to or overtake someone. I'll drop down to 80 for long, steep climbs (seated -- no idea what my cadence is standing).
Lance Armstrong [apparently maintains 110rpm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_%28cycling%29) for efficiency. It took me a while to get used to 90 so I'd suggest building up to it slowly. Let us know when you can do 110 comfortably! | I've always heard that lower cadences tend to put more stress on the knees, and I've definitely felt more knee pain after grinding away on higher gears on hill climbs and such, vs when I'm spinning more lightly on flatter terrain.
It kind of makes sense when you think about it -- you have to apply higher pressure against the pedal riding a higher gear. That might also partially explain why the pros keep a higher cadence. They need to spare their joints as much wear as possible. |
908 | Sometimes it happens that, on answering a question, I see that someone else has given a plainly wrong answer (in my opinion, of course) to the same question.
I have always refrained from down-voting that answer because it seemed to me to be rather bad practice to down-vote competing answers. Where there are competing answers I assumed it to be better to leave the voting to my peers, who in principle, would be more neutral.
But I am quite happy to up-vote competing answers I deem to be good.
So my question: Is it good practice to refrain from down-voting a competing answer to the same question? | 2011/03/27 | [
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/908",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/users/1368/"
] | I think if the other answer is harmfully wrong, you should down vote. If you just think your answer is better, or disagree on a less-than-fundamental level, leave it alone.
It would be easy for Stack Exchange to prevent downvoting on competing answers. But they don't. So I think the best thing is to use your judgment. It's only one vote, and if your in-principle-neutral peers disagree, we'll outvote you. | It's definitely good practice to up vote competing answers, there's actually a badge for that. As far as down voting competing answers, very few people downvote questions or answers unless they are in dire need of attention. In those cases, a downvote is still appropriate. |
908 | Sometimes it happens that, on answering a question, I see that someone else has given a plainly wrong answer (in my opinion, of course) to the same question.
I have always refrained from down-voting that answer because it seemed to me to be rather bad practice to down-vote competing answers. Where there are competing answers I assumed it to be better to leave the voting to my peers, who in principle, would be more neutral.
But I am quite happy to up-vote competing answers I deem to be good.
So my question: Is it good practice to refrain from down-voting a competing answer to the same question? | 2011/03/27 | [
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/908",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/users/1368/"
] | I think if the other answer is harmfully wrong, you should down vote. If you just think your answer is better, or disagree on a less-than-fundamental level, leave it alone.
It would be easy for Stack Exchange to prevent downvoting on competing answers. But they don't. So I think the best thing is to use your judgment. It's only one vote, and if your in-principle-neutral peers disagree, we'll outvote you. | Sure, you should vote on anything you feel inclined to -- up or down.
Personally I try to be generous with my upvotes but reserve downvotes for things I feel strongly about. |
908 | Sometimes it happens that, on answering a question, I see that someone else has given a plainly wrong answer (in my opinion, of course) to the same question.
I have always refrained from down-voting that answer because it seemed to me to be rather bad practice to down-vote competing answers. Where there are competing answers I assumed it to be better to leave the voting to my peers, who in principle, would be more neutral.
But I am quite happy to up-vote competing answers I deem to be good.
So my question: Is it good practice to refrain from down-voting a competing answer to the same question? | 2011/03/27 | [
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/908",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/users/1368/"
] | I think if the other answer is harmfully wrong, you should down vote. If you just think your answer is better, or disagree on a less-than-fundamental level, leave it alone.
It would be easy for Stack Exchange to prevent downvoting on competing answers. But they don't. So I think the best thing is to use your judgment. It's only one vote, and if your in-principle-neutral peers disagree, we'll outvote you. | If the other answer is clearly wrong, downvote and reference why towards your answer.
Don't downvote just to try to get your own answer to the top of course :) |
908 | Sometimes it happens that, on answering a question, I see that someone else has given a plainly wrong answer (in my opinion, of course) to the same question.
I have always refrained from down-voting that answer because it seemed to me to be rather bad practice to down-vote competing answers. Where there are competing answers I assumed it to be better to leave the voting to my peers, who in principle, would be more neutral.
But I am quite happy to up-vote competing answers I deem to be good.
So my question: Is it good practice to refrain from down-voting a competing answer to the same question? | 2011/03/27 | [
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/908",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/users/1368/"
] | I think if the other answer is harmfully wrong, you should down vote. If you just think your answer is better, or disagree on a less-than-fundamental level, leave it alone.
It would be easy for Stack Exchange to prevent downvoting on competing answers. But they don't. So I think the best thing is to use your judgment. It's only one vote, and if your in-principle-neutral peers disagree, we'll outvote you. | Personally, if I think the competing answer is wrong because of, what, a mere misspell, or a wrong reference somewhere (these are **so** easy to get, especially on the programming StackExchange sites where I frequent), I'll edit it myself (if I had editing privileges). Nobody's perfect after all.
For the really wrong answers in concept (as in they're teaching something downright wrong), I don't hold back on the down votes. That's part of why the function's there anyway. I don't leave it at that though; generally I leave behind a comment on why I think it's wrong and what they can improve on.
But that's just me. If I answered incorrectly, I'd rather my answer get voted down so that the other (more correct) answers get precedence and limelight anyway, and just chuck that answer up to my *you-learn-something-new-everyday* groove or something. |
908 | Sometimes it happens that, on answering a question, I see that someone else has given a plainly wrong answer (in my opinion, of course) to the same question.
I have always refrained from down-voting that answer because it seemed to me to be rather bad practice to down-vote competing answers. Where there are competing answers I assumed it to be better to leave the voting to my peers, who in principle, would be more neutral.
But I am quite happy to up-vote competing answers I deem to be good.
So my question: Is it good practice to refrain from down-voting a competing answer to the same question? | 2011/03/27 | [
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/908",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/users/1368/"
] | Sure, you should vote on anything you feel inclined to -- up or down.
Personally I try to be generous with my upvotes but reserve downvotes for things I feel strongly about. | It's definitely good practice to up vote competing answers, there's actually a badge for that. As far as down voting competing answers, very few people downvote questions or answers unless they are in dire need of attention. In those cases, a downvote is still appropriate. |
908 | Sometimes it happens that, on answering a question, I see that someone else has given a plainly wrong answer (in my opinion, of course) to the same question.
I have always refrained from down-voting that answer because it seemed to me to be rather bad practice to down-vote competing answers. Where there are competing answers I assumed it to be better to leave the voting to my peers, who in principle, would be more neutral.
But I am quite happy to up-vote competing answers I deem to be good.
So my question: Is it good practice to refrain from down-voting a competing answer to the same question? | 2011/03/27 | [
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/908",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/users/1368/"
] | Sure, you should vote on anything you feel inclined to -- up or down.
Personally I try to be generous with my upvotes but reserve downvotes for things I feel strongly about. | If the other answer is clearly wrong, downvote and reference why towards your answer.
Don't downvote just to try to get your own answer to the top of course :) |
908 | Sometimes it happens that, on answering a question, I see that someone else has given a plainly wrong answer (in my opinion, of course) to the same question.
I have always refrained from down-voting that answer because it seemed to me to be rather bad practice to down-vote competing answers. Where there are competing answers I assumed it to be better to leave the voting to my peers, who in principle, would be more neutral.
But I am quite happy to up-vote competing answers I deem to be good.
So my question: Is it good practice to refrain from down-voting a competing answer to the same question? | 2011/03/27 | [
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/908",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/users/1368/"
] | Sure, you should vote on anything you feel inclined to -- up or down.
Personally I try to be generous with my upvotes but reserve downvotes for things I feel strongly about. | Personally, if I think the competing answer is wrong because of, what, a mere misspell, or a wrong reference somewhere (these are **so** easy to get, especially on the programming StackExchange sites where I frequent), I'll edit it myself (if I had editing privileges). Nobody's perfect after all.
For the really wrong answers in concept (as in they're teaching something downright wrong), I don't hold back on the down votes. That's part of why the function's there anyway. I don't leave it at that though; generally I leave behind a comment on why I think it's wrong and what they can improve on.
But that's just me. If I answered incorrectly, I'd rather my answer get voted down so that the other (more correct) answers get precedence and limelight anyway, and just chuck that answer up to my *you-learn-something-new-everyday* groove or something. |
132,308 | I was watching the ending of *Return of the Joker* where Terry fights the Joker one-on-one. Towards the end of the fight Terry says something that caught my attention:
>
> So you fell in a tank of acid, got your skin bleached, then decided to
> become a super villain. What, you couldn't get work as a rodeo clown?
>
>
>
For reference:
at 2:43
Which is odd. I'm not familiar with Batman: The Animated Series ever dedicating itself to one specific Joker origin, let alone *The Killing Joke*. In fact it runs kind of counter-intuitive to the peek at the Joker's origin from *Mask of the Phantasm* where
>
> The Joker was an ex-mobster working with Sal Valestra.
>
>
>
Did The Animated Series ever confirm that Joker became a villain after falling in a vat of acid? | 2016/06/19 | [
"https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/132308",
"https://scifi.stackexchange.com",
"https://scifi.stackexchange.com/users/56212/"
] | In the "The New Batman Adventures" episode "Beware the Creeper," news reporter Jack Ryder does a story on the Joker at the Ace Chemicals factory, where we see a recreation (with actors) of Batman punching Joker into the acid vat. It's unclear whether this is a dramatization (it seems out of character for the DCAU Batman to purposely knock someone into a potentially-deadly tank of chemicals), aka maybe the Joker fell instead of being punched, but regardless, this is the closest we get to an answer. This is, of course, post-involvement with the Valestra gang. | When pre-joker or also known as the Red Hood fell into the chemicals and the Ace Chemicals plant the chemicals bleached his skin white, made his hair green, and made his lips bright red(al though in some litterations the bright red lips is just lipstick). The day he fell in there chemicals vat was also the day he lost his wife and unborn child to the mafia. The disfigurement from the accident drove him mad, in a way he sort of hates himself or hated himself because of the disfigurement. |
50,345,546 | I have been playing around with Cloud Speech API and noticed that it returns punctuation for English but not for Japanese when enableAutomaticPunctuation is set to true.
Does anybody know What languages does Google Cloud Speech Automatic Punctuation Support? | 2018/05/15 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/50345546",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/5115615/"
] | Speech-to-Text can provide punctuation in audio transcription text [for 'en-US' language only](https://cloud.google.com/speech-to-text/docs/automatic-punctuation#speech-enhanced-model-python).
EDIT MAY 2020: Now, Speech-To-Text supports [more languages](https://cloud.google.com/speech-to-text/docs/languages) | Update: as of May 2020, several languages have punctuation supported, including Japanese. They have a full list of languages they support and features that are supported for each language [listed here](https://cloud.google.com/speech-to-text/docs/languages). |
285,519 | I teach 7th grade students about the difference between speed and velocity. One of them ask me why do physicists create the concept of velocity. I cannot answer. I don't know precisely why do we care about the difference between speed and velocity. | 2016/10/11 | [
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/285519",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/users/43712/"
] | ~~**We care so that we can conveniently calculate motion in 2- or 3-D.**~~
Most motion important to us happens in 2- or 3-D (cars moving over land, airplanes flying through the sky, etc). Vectors make it convenient to handle quantities in more than 1 dimension, so we use vector quantities for position, velocity, and acceleration when describing 2- or 3-D motion.
**We care so that we can find out the motion of things being pushed/pulled in different directions.**
Not all motion happens along a straight line. Forces do not always push along a single direction. For example, shooting a basketball entails that you push the basketball upward and forward, while gravity pulls it downward. The basketball quite clearly does not move in a straight line; it moves in a curve, constantly changing direction.
In cases like these, we use vectors to describe motion. Vectors make it convenient to handle quantities going in different directions, *because they were designed precisely to handle directions!*
This is why we have the concept of a vector velocity (as well as position and acceleration): to handle motion where different directions are involved. | If two trains approach each other from opposite directions, on the same train track, they need to calculate their "relative velocities" in order to determine when to stop before they collide. Of course, they would need to know their accelerations too, but if you're explaining to children, this might help. In this case, you can't only consider the "speed" of one train, you need to take into account their directions and each others' velocities (or magnitude of speed, and collude that with direction) to know when they would cross or meet at a certain point. This specific scenario, or others similar in nature, cannot be handled with only speed but require velocities, or rather, relative velocities. |
285,519 | I teach 7th grade students about the difference between speed and velocity. One of them ask me why do physicists create the concept of velocity. I cannot answer. I don't know precisely why do we care about the difference between speed and velocity. | 2016/10/11 | [
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/285519",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/users/43712/"
] | I give you a different type of answer. In Italian, and in many other languages I suppose, there are not different words for speed and velocity and so there is not any ambiguity among these concepts.
Velocity it's a vector, but you can refer to it's module because there is not any ambiguity, as you do for any vector quantity. (For istance, I'm sure you would not have made the same question for the momentum)
I think in English you stress the difference between the two only because in your language there were two different words (one from Latin and one from Germanic origins) already before the birth of physics.
In my opinion is only a cultural difference. | Velocity includes information about direction as well as speed (magnitude of velocity). Suppose you are driving at a speed of 50 mph on a road with a washed out bridge, would you not also appreciate knowing your velocity? If you only know your speed you would not know whether you were driving toward or away from the washed out bridge. To make the distinction clear to your students, you might point out that a steering wheel is a device for altering velocity while maintaining constant speed. |
285,519 | I teach 7th grade students about the difference between speed and velocity. One of them ask me why do physicists create the concept of velocity. I cannot answer. I don't know precisely why do we care about the difference between speed and velocity. | 2016/10/11 | [
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/285519",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/users/43712/"
] | Speed is a scalar, velocity is a vector. We care because it gives us more information.
In three dimensional space velocity is expressed with three numbers, the speed in each of the three dimensions. | If two trains approach each other from opposite directions, on the same train track, they need to calculate their "relative velocities" in order to determine when to stop before they collide. Of course, they would need to know their accelerations too, but if you're explaining to children, this might help. In this case, you can't only consider the "speed" of one train, you need to take into account their directions and each others' velocities (or magnitude of speed, and collude that with direction) to know when they would cross or meet at a certain point. This specific scenario, or others similar in nature, cannot be handled with only speed but require velocities, or rather, relative velocities. |
285,519 | I teach 7th grade students about the difference between speed and velocity. One of them ask me why do physicists create the concept of velocity. I cannot answer. I don't know precisely why do we care about the difference between speed and velocity. | 2016/10/11 | [
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/285519",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/users/43712/"
] | I give you a different type of answer. In Italian, and in many other languages I suppose, there are not different words for speed and velocity and so there is not any ambiguity among these concepts.
Velocity it's a vector, but you can refer to it's module because there is not any ambiguity, as you do for any vector quantity. (For istance, I'm sure you would not have made the same question for the momentum)
I think in English you stress the difference between the two only because in your language there were two different words (one from Latin and one from Germanic origins) already before the birth of physics.
In my opinion is only a cultural difference. | If two trains approach each other from opposite directions, on the same train track, they need to calculate their "relative velocities" in order to determine when to stop before they collide. Of course, they would need to know their accelerations too, but if you're explaining to children, this might help. In this case, you can't only consider the "speed" of one train, you need to take into account their directions and each others' velocities (or magnitude of speed, and collude that with direction) to know when they would cross or meet at a certain point. This specific scenario, or others similar in nature, cannot be handled with only speed but require velocities, or rather, relative velocities. |
285,519 | I teach 7th grade students about the difference between speed and velocity. One of them ask me why do physicists create the concept of velocity. I cannot answer. I don't know precisely why do we care about the difference between speed and velocity. | 2016/10/11 | [
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/285519",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/users/43712/"
] | ~~**We care so that we can conveniently calculate motion in 2- or 3-D.**~~
Most motion important to us happens in 2- or 3-D (cars moving over land, airplanes flying through the sky, etc). Vectors make it convenient to handle quantities in more than 1 dimension, so we use vector quantities for position, velocity, and acceleration when describing 2- or 3-D motion.
**We care so that we can find out the motion of things being pushed/pulled in different directions.**
Not all motion happens along a straight line. Forces do not always push along a single direction. For example, shooting a basketball entails that you push the basketball upward and forward, while gravity pulls it downward. The basketball quite clearly does not move in a straight line; it moves in a curve, constantly changing direction.
In cases like these, we use vectors to describe motion. Vectors make it convenient to handle quantities going in different directions, *because they were designed precisely to handle directions!*
This is why we have the concept of a vector velocity (as well as position and acceleration): to handle motion where different directions are involved. | A mathematical description of the differences between speed and velocity is simple enough, and definitely essential; this has been elaborated upon by some of the answers here already. As far as the question "why should we care" goes, or how to get 7th graders interested well...more reasons than I can probably think of. Try something like sports. A quarterback can throw a football fast (speed), but its not going to do any good unless he throws it to the right place (trajectory and or velocity)... Or driving. You can drive the speed limit all you desire, but you will still get a ticket (or worse) if you are driving down the wrong side of the road (trajectory, velocity). Physicist care about these and their differences for similar reasons, but perhaps applied to a wide variety of different scenarios. Try getting them to think of some scenarios of their own by their own imaginations that they can apply them to, and explain the differences perhaps? |
285,519 | I teach 7th grade students about the difference between speed and velocity. One of them ask me why do physicists create the concept of velocity. I cannot answer. I don't know precisely why do we care about the difference between speed and velocity. | 2016/10/11 | [
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/285519",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/users/43712/"
] | Speed is a scalar, velocity is a vector. We care because it gives us more information.
In three dimensional space velocity is expressed with three numbers, the speed in each of the three dimensions. | Velocity includes information about direction as well as speed (magnitude of velocity). Suppose you are driving at a speed of 50 mph on a road with a washed out bridge, would you not also appreciate knowing your velocity? If you only know your speed you would not know whether you were driving toward or away from the washed out bridge. To make the distinction clear to your students, you might point out that a steering wheel is a device for altering velocity while maintaining constant speed. |
285,519 | I teach 7th grade students about the difference between speed and velocity. One of them ask me why do physicists create the concept of velocity. I cannot answer. I don't know precisely why do we care about the difference between speed and velocity. | 2016/10/11 | [
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/285519",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/users/43712/"
] | ~~**We care so that we can conveniently calculate motion in 2- or 3-D.**~~
Most motion important to us happens in 2- or 3-D (cars moving over land, airplanes flying through the sky, etc). Vectors make it convenient to handle quantities in more than 1 dimension, so we use vector quantities for position, velocity, and acceleration when describing 2- or 3-D motion.
**We care so that we can find out the motion of things being pushed/pulled in different directions.**
Not all motion happens along a straight line. Forces do not always push along a single direction. For example, shooting a basketball entails that you push the basketball upward and forward, while gravity pulls it downward. The basketball quite clearly does not move in a straight line; it moves in a curve, constantly changing direction.
In cases like these, we use vectors to describe motion. Vectors make it convenient to handle quantities going in different directions, *because they were designed precisely to handle directions!*
This is why we have the concept of a vector velocity (as well as position and acceleration): to handle motion where different directions are involved. | Velocity includes information about direction as well as speed (magnitude of velocity). Suppose you are driving at a speed of 50 mph on a road with a washed out bridge, would you not also appreciate knowing your velocity? If you only know your speed you would not know whether you were driving toward or away from the washed out bridge. To make the distinction clear to your students, you might point out that a steering wheel is a device for altering velocity while maintaining constant speed. |
285,519 | I teach 7th grade students about the difference between speed and velocity. One of them ask me why do physicists create the concept of velocity. I cannot answer. I don't know precisely why do we care about the difference between speed and velocity. | 2016/10/11 | [
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/285519",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/users/43712/"
] | A mathematical description of the differences between speed and velocity is simple enough, and definitely essential; this has been elaborated upon by some of the answers here already. As far as the question "why should we care" goes, or how to get 7th graders interested well...more reasons than I can probably think of. Try something like sports. A quarterback can throw a football fast (speed), but its not going to do any good unless he throws it to the right place (trajectory and or velocity)... Or driving. You can drive the speed limit all you desire, but you will still get a ticket (or worse) if you are driving down the wrong side of the road (trajectory, velocity). Physicist care about these and their differences for similar reasons, but perhaps applied to a wide variety of different scenarios. Try getting them to think of some scenarios of their own by their own imaginations that they can apply them to, and explain the differences perhaps? | If two trains approach each other from opposite directions, on the same train track, they need to calculate their "relative velocities" in order to determine when to stop before they collide. Of course, they would need to know their accelerations too, but if you're explaining to children, this might help. In this case, you can't only consider the "speed" of one train, you need to take into account their directions and each others' velocities (or magnitude of speed, and collude that with direction) to know when they would cross or meet at a certain point. This specific scenario, or others similar in nature, cannot be handled with only speed but require velocities, or rather, relative velocities. |
285,519 | I teach 7th grade students about the difference between speed and velocity. One of them ask me why do physicists create the concept of velocity. I cannot answer. I don't know precisely why do we care about the difference between speed and velocity. | 2016/10/11 | [
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/285519",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/users/43712/"
] | ~~**We care so that we can conveniently calculate motion in 2- or 3-D.**~~
Most motion important to us happens in 2- or 3-D (cars moving over land, airplanes flying through the sky, etc). Vectors make it convenient to handle quantities in more than 1 dimension, so we use vector quantities for position, velocity, and acceleration when describing 2- or 3-D motion.
**We care so that we can find out the motion of things being pushed/pulled in different directions.**
Not all motion happens along a straight line. Forces do not always push along a single direction. For example, shooting a basketball entails that you push the basketball upward and forward, while gravity pulls it downward. The basketball quite clearly does not move in a straight line; it moves in a curve, constantly changing direction.
In cases like these, we use vectors to describe motion. Vectors make it convenient to handle quantities going in different directions, *because they were designed precisely to handle directions!*
This is why we have the concept of a vector velocity (as well as position and acceleration): to handle motion where different directions are involved. | Speed is a scalar, velocity is a vector. We care because it gives us more information.
In three dimensional space velocity is expressed with three numbers, the speed in each of the three dimensions. |
285,519 | I teach 7th grade students about the difference between speed and velocity. One of them ask me why do physicists create the concept of velocity. I cannot answer. I don't know precisely why do we care about the difference between speed and velocity. | 2016/10/11 | [
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/285519",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com",
"https://physics.stackexchange.com/users/43712/"
] | I give you a different type of answer. In Italian, and in many other languages I suppose, there are not different words for speed and velocity and so there is not any ambiguity among these concepts.
Velocity it's a vector, but you can refer to it's module because there is not any ambiguity, as you do for any vector quantity. (For istance, I'm sure you would not have made the same question for the momentum)
I think in English you stress the difference between the two only because in your language there were two different words (one from Latin and one from Germanic origins) already before the birth of physics.
In my opinion is only a cultural difference. | A mathematical description of the differences between speed and velocity is simple enough, and definitely essential; this has been elaborated upon by some of the answers here already. As far as the question "why should we care" goes, or how to get 7th graders interested well...more reasons than I can probably think of. Try something like sports. A quarterback can throw a football fast (speed), but its not going to do any good unless he throws it to the right place (trajectory and or velocity)... Or driving. You can drive the speed limit all you desire, but you will still get a ticket (or worse) if you are driving down the wrong side of the road (trajectory, velocity). Physicist care about these and their differences for similar reasons, but perhaps applied to a wide variety of different scenarios. Try getting them to think of some scenarios of their own by their own imaginations that they can apply them to, and explain the differences perhaps? |
2,878 | I have an extra large LEGO figure *(approximately 19 inches/48 cm tall)* that I wish to sell. This is an item which has only been available to retailers as part of merchandising the stores.
Any ideas how much these are worth? | 2014/02/21 | [
"https://bricks.stackexchange.com/questions/2878",
"https://bricks.stackexchange.com",
"https://bricks.stackexchange.com/users/3456/"
] | These typically go for several hundred USD at the low end, and can be up to several thousand for the rarer display figures.
One way to get an idea of the current market price is to check out the items currently for sale on Bricklink. A search for ['display figure' in the gear category](http://www.bricklink.com/browseList.asp?q=display+figure&itemType=G&catID=) should give you a pretty good idea. | I have been making a list of these over the past few months. I have about 43 and I think that another 50 or so exists. You can see the full list here. <http://www.minifigpriceguide.com/MAXIFIGS.0.html>
I think that these figures generally go for between 400 - 1500 depending on the character. The last Spiderman Doc Ock combo that I saw went for around 3000. |
27,416 | There are tons of baby monitors when searching on Google, but when adding the restriction that it has to also work for outdoor use, I can't find a single one.
The baby unit have to work from -5ºC degrees.
**Question**
Does such exist in normal shops, or does there exist a special brand, that fulfills this need? | 2016/10/11 | [
"https://parenting.stackexchange.com/questions/27416",
"https://parenting.stackexchange.com",
"https://parenting.stackexchange.com/users/24762/"
] | Ida makes a good point! In general most commercial electronics are good a little bit below zero. Battery life starts to go down, as batteries are adversely affected by cold, but the circuits themselves should be okay. They tend to be more affected by water...
But remember - if you have it next to your baby, it will end up around the same temperature as them (or at least near it) so if your baby can cope, I'd assume the monitor can. | There are baby monitor apps you can install on two smartphones, one becomes the monitor and the other the receiver. If you had two smartphones that work in the necessary conditions, that could work. I haven't used these apps enough to make any specific recommendation.
Also, you could keep a phone in an inside pocket to keep it warmer than the surrounding air, which might also be helpful.
If this is for camping or other outdoor type activities, it might be a relevant question on the "outdoors" stack exchange site. |
7,485,991 | Oracle ROWID is [said](http://asktom.oracle.com/pls/asktom/f?p=100:11:0%3a%3a%3a%3aP11_QUESTION_ID:53140678334596) to be unique within a table. I didn't understand how can two rows of two different tables stored in the same cluster have the same rowid since the last three characters of the [ROWID format](http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/E11882_01/server.112/e16508/logical.htm#CNCPT89008) indicate the row number in the database block?
I understand that rows in the clustered tables are persisted in the same database block but since ROWID includes row number, shouldn't that distinguish between two rows in the database block? | 2011/09/20 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/7485991",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/537503/"
] | Is simple. Because "friendly" rows of the clustered table are stored together in the block, that means you can have the same rowid.
In the picture below (from [frontiernet](http://www.frontiernet.net/~rhode/cluster.html)) first dept row has rownumber 1 and first emp row have rownumber 1. This is first occurence.
After this we have emp 2, emp 3... After all emps in this dept, if there is enough space, you'have row two for dept but his rowid was encountered for emp 2 in previous dept.
And so on.
This happens because the row number from a rowid is relative to its table and current block.
 | Usually, a rowid value uniquely identifies a row in the database. However, rows in different tables that are stored together in the same cluster can have the same rowid.
checkout: <http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B19306_01/server.102/b14200/pseudocolumns008.htm> |
121,812 | Im researching types of 6th chords & have not come across any site referencing such a chord. Does a Major triad with an added m6/b6 not exist? | 2022/03/11 | [
"https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/121812",
"https://music.stackexchange.com",
"https://music.stackexchange.com/users/84642/"
] | A major triad with a minor sixth doesn't have a special name associated with it.
The presence of the minor sixth makes the chord generally too ambiguous to be used as a coloration on a major triad. More likely that ambiguity would be used in the context of a major seventh chord with a raised fifth, but in first inversion. It might be used at the end of a song in which an ambiguous finish is desirable.
Played without additional context, I hear it as the upper portion of a minor-major seventh chord with an added ninth. That chord can be found at the end of the theme song of every detective show ever. | Every chord exists. Any group of notes, even 2(generally called intervals) is a chord. Hell, even 1 note is a chord. A chord is a color, a sound. It represents a harmonic implication. There are many names for chords just like there are many names for paint colors. You have many types of greens and some times the same green is called by different names.
You are asking about nomenclature.
A Mm6 does exist. It's a Mm6.
Typically a very common usage is the Phrygian Dominant usage as this is the most natural context. The usage of the b6 will generally be more of a passing tone(used melodically or in extended form as a b13) although it doesn't really matter how you label it, what matters is that it sounds good and you have some way to describe the general idea.
For example, one can find such a chord on the tonic of a Mixolydian b6 scale, an Ionian b6, a Lydian b6, a Lydian Augmented(depending on precisely how you interpret the b6), etc.
It's not used much in common music because common people generally don't know how to use "complex" chords or don't like them.
Any combination of notes can be thought of as a chord. If you think of chords like this and that they are just colors then things will make more sense. The naming scheme of chords is just to communicate with words what one hears in sounds. Just like the word BOOM is to communicate an aural thing and red is to communicate a visual thing. Don't expect nomenclature to be complete though. Music notation is the notation used to precisely, well mostly, communicate musical sound.
The simplest way to state a Mm6 chord is a Mm6 chord. Or you could use something like Mb6. Generally these chords are known as b13 chords and are quite common in more advanced music(more advanced than pop and childrens songs). b13 major chords usually have some additional extensions to fill in the sound but music is context dependent. Learn the nomenclature as just a way to name things and don't confuse naming with the actual music. |
121,812 | Im researching types of 6th chords & have not come across any site referencing such a chord. Does a Major triad with an added m6/b6 not exist? | 2022/03/11 | [
"https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/121812",
"https://music.stackexchange.com",
"https://music.stackexchange.com/users/84642/"
] | The question should not be if it exists, of course it does. Regardless of whether or not it has much practical usage I believe the real issue here is spelling it out in a way that makes it completely clear and unambiguous.
Sometimes major chords with a b6 use the designation b13 but I advise against that because some might think a chord symbol with a 13 implies including other extensions.
Using C as an example I believe the best option is this:
C(add b6)
This indicates a C triad with one additional note, nothing else. | A major triad with a minor sixth doesn't have a special name associated with it.
The presence of the minor sixth makes the chord generally too ambiguous to be used as a coloration on a major triad. More likely that ambiguity would be used in the context of a major seventh chord with a raised fifth, but in first inversion. It might be used at the end of a song in which an ambiguous finish is desirable.
Played without additional context, I hear it as the upper portion of a minor-major seventh chord with an added ninth. That chord can be found at the end of the theme song of every detective show ever. |
121,812 | Im researching types of 6th chords & have not come across any site referencing such a chord. Does a Major triad with an added m6/b6 not exist? | 2022/03/11 | [
"https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/121812",
"https://music.stackexchange.com",
"https://music.stackexchange.com/users/84642/"
] | The question should not be if it exists, of course it does. Regardless of whether or not it has much practical usage I believe the real issue here is spelling it out in a way that makes it completely clear and unambiguous.
Sometimes major chords with a b6 use the designation b13 but I advise against that because some might think a chord symbol with a 13 implies including other extensions.
Using C as an example I believe the best option is this:
C(add b6)
This indicates a C triad with one additional note, nothing else. | Every chord exists. Any group of notes, even 2(generally called intervals) is a chord. Hell, even 1 note is a chord. A chord is a color, a sound. It represents a harmonic implication. There are many names for chords just like there are many names for paint colors. You have many types of greens and some times the same green is called by different names.
You are asking about nomenclature.
A Mm6 does exist. It's a Mm6.
Typically a very common usage is the Phrygian Dominant usage as this is the most natural context. The usage of the b6 will generally be more of a passing tone(used melodically or in extended form as a b13) although it doesn't really matter how you label it, what matters is that it sounds good and you have some way to describe the general idea.
For example, one can find such a chord on the tonic of a Mixolydian b6 scale, an Ionian b6, a Lydian b6, a Lydian Augmented(depending on precisely how you interpret the b6), etc.
It's not used much in common music because common people generally don't know how to use "complex" chords or don't like them.
Any combination of notes can be thought of as a chord. If you think of chords like this and that they are just colors then things will make more sense. The naming scheme of chords is just to communicate with words what one hears in sounds. Just like the word BOOM is to communicate an aural thing and red is to communicate a visual thing. Don't expect nomenclature to be complete though. Music notation is the notation used to precisely, well mostly, communicate musical sound.
The simplest way to state a Mm6 chord is a Mm6 chord. Or you could use something like Mb6. Generally these chords are known as b13 chords and are quite common in more advanced music(more advanced than pop and childrens songs). b13 major chords usually have some additional extensions to fill in the sound but music is context dependent. Learn the nomenclature as just a way to name things and don't confuse naming with the actual music. |
121,812 | Im researching types of 6th chords & have not come across any site referencing such a chord. Does a Major triad with an added m6/b6 not exist? | 2022/03/11 | [
"https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/121812",
"https://music.stackexchange.com",
"https://music.stackexchange.com/users/84642/"
] | It's a rather unusual sounding chord. So unusual, it hardly ever gets to be played.The *minor* flat6 chord is more usually found as a major seventh version of the chord whose root is 4 semitones below that of the m♭6 chord's. And sounds good as such.
Playing a M7 chord with root right next to the M7 usually doesn't sound good - one semitone between sets up vibrations - beats - which don't help.
And it's the same with major flat 6: the P5 and ♭6 are similarly one semitone apart. There *could* be a case for calling it ♭13, but John gives good reason for not calling it that.
So, basically because it will hardly ever get used as such, why would it have a special name? And, if indeed, it does need one, C(♭6) works. | Every chord exists. Any group of notes, even 2(generally called intervals) is a chord. Hell, even 1 note is a chord. A chord is a color, a sound. It represents a harmonic implication. There are many names for chords just like there are many names for paint colors. You have many types of greens and some times the same green is called by different names.
You are asking about nomenclature.
A Mm6 does exist. It's a Mm6.
Typically a very common usage is the Phrygian Dominant usage as this is the most natural context. The usage of the b6 will generally be more of a passing tone(used melodically or in extended form as a b13) although it doesn't really matter how you label it, what matters is that it sounds good and you have some way to describe the general idea.
For example, one can find such a chord on the tonic of a Mixolydian b6 scale, an Ionian b6, a Lydian b6, a Lydian Augmented(depending on precisely how you interpret the b6), etc.
It's not used much in common music because common people generally don't know how to use "complex" chords or don't like them.
Any combination of notes can be thought of as a chord. If you think of chords like this and that they are just colors then things will make more sense. The naming scheme of chords is just to communicate with words what one hears in sounds. Just like the word BOOM is to communicate an aural thing and red is to communicate a visual thing. Don't expect nomenclature to be complete though. Music notation is the notation used to precisely, well mostly, communicate musical sound.
The simplest way to state a Mm6 chord is a Mm6 chord. Or you could use something like Mb6. Generally these chords are known as b13 chords and are quite common in more advanced music(more advanced than pop and childrens songs). b13 major chords usually have some additional extensions to fill in the sound but music is context dependent. Learn the nomenclature as just a way to name things and don't confuse naming with the actual music. |
121,812 | Im researching types of 6th chords & have not come across any site referencing such a chord. Does a Major triad with an added m6/b6 not exist? | 2022/03/11 | [
"https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/121812",
"https://music.stackexchange.com",
"https://music.stackexchange.com/users/84642/"
] | The question should not be if it exists, of course it does. Regardless of whether or not it has much practical usage I believe the real issue here is spelling it out in a way that makes it completely clear and unambiguous.
Sometimes major chords with a b6 use the designation b13 but I advise against that because some might think a chord symbol with a 13 implies including other extensions.
Using C as an example I believe the best option is this:
C(add b6)
This indicates a C triad with one additional note, nothing else. | It's a rather unusual sounding chord. So unusual, it hardly ever gets to be played.The *minor* flat6 chord is more usually found as a major seventh version of the chord whose root is 4 semitones below that of the m♭6 chord's. And sounds good as such.
Playing a M7 chord with root right next to the M7 usually doesn't sound good - one semitone between sets up vibrations - beats - which don't help.
And it's the same with major flat 6: the P5 and ♭6 are similarly one semitone apart. There *could* be a case for calling it ♭13, but John gives good reason for not calling it that.
So, basically because it will hardly ever get used as such, why would it have a special name? And, if indeed, it does need one, C(♭6) works. |
3,139,745 | I'm hearing a lot recently about NoSQL databases, particularly MongoDB. I'm interested to know what the implications of changing to a MongoDB database is within the context of a Ruby on Rails appplication.
I haven't been able to find an article that gives a good description of how things vary from using an SQL database when using MongoDB.
Do we still have database migrations? Relationships? Will `has_one` still work? What are the current adapters like?
Thanks. | 2010/06/29 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/3139745",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/344792/"
] | You can find the mongotips blog too
<http://mongotips.com/>
it explain a lot of thing about what MongoDb is awesome | there is an article on mongodb's website: [here](http://www.mongodb.org/display/DOCS/MongoDB+Data+Modeling+and+Rails) |
3,139,745 | I'm hearing a lot recently about NoSQL databases, particularly MongoDB. I'm interested to know what the implications of changing to a MongoDB database is within the context of a Ruby on Rails appplication.
I haven't been able to find an article that gives a good description of how things vary from using an SQL database when using MongoDB.
Do we still have database migrations? Relationships? Will `has_one` still work? What are the current adapters like?
Thanks. | 2010/06/29 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/3139745",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/344792/"
] | there is an article on mongodb's website: [here](http://www.mongodb.org/display/DOCS/MongoDB+Data+Modeling+and+Rails) | This is a better site: <http://mongomapper.com/documentation/getting-started/rails.html> |
3,139,745 | I'm hearing a lot recently about NoSQL databases, particularly MongoDB. I'm interested to know what the implications of changing to a MongoDB database is within the context of a Ruby on Rails appplication.
I haven't been able to find an article that gives a good description of how things vary from using an SQL database when using MongoDB.
Do we still have database migrations? Relationships? Will `has_one` still work? What are the current adapters like?
Thanks. | 2010/06/29 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/3139745",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/344792/"
] | You can find the mongotips blog too
<http://mongotips.com/>
it explain a lot of thing about what MongoDb is awesome | Railscasts has some episodes on MongoDB & Rails:
<http://railscasts.com/episodes/238-mongoid>
<http://railscasts.com/episodes/194-mongodb-and-mongomapper> |
3,139,745 | I'm hearing a lot recently about NoSQL databases, particularly MongoDB. I'm interested to know what the implications of changing to a MongoDB database is within the context of a Ruby on Rails appplication.
I haven't been able to find an article that gives a good description of how things vary from using an SQL database when using MongoDB.
Do we still have database migrations? Relationships? Will `has_one` still work? What are the current adapters like?
Thanks. | 2010/06/29 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/3139745",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/344792/"
] | You can find the mongotips blog too
<http://mongotips.com/>
it explain a lot of thing about what MongoDb is awesome | This is a better site: <http://mongomapper.com/documentation/getting-started/rails.html> |
3,139,745 | I'm hearing a lot recently about NoSQL databases, particularly MongoDB. I'm interested to know what the implications of changing to a MongoDB database is within the context of a Ruby on Rails appplication.
I haven't been able to find an article that gives a good description of how things vary from using an SQL database when using MongoDB.
Do we still have database migrations? Relationships? Will `has_one` still work? What are the current adapters like?
Thanks. | 2010/06/29 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/3139745",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/344792/"
] | Railscasts has some episodes on MongoDB & Rails:
<http://railscasts.com/episodes/238-mongoid>
<http://railscasts.com/episodes/194-mongodb-and-mongomapper> | This is a better site: <http://mongomapper.com/documentation/getting-started/rails.html> |
29,945 | UARTs often let you choose between 1, 1.5 and 2 stop bits. With 1 stop bit payload efficiency is 80% (8/10), with 2 stop bits that drops to 72.7% (8/11). So what's the advantage of the second stop bit? | 2012/04/15 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29945",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/3920/"
] | In days long gone printers were (almost) all-mechanical constructs. Baudrates were somewhat standardised even then, so adding an extra stop bit would give the printer some extra time to print the character. Timing aspects were more visibly back then. For my first printer, an noisy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33> , I had to insert a pause of two characters after sending a Carriage Return. | Once upon a time there were electromechanical monsters called teletypes. Most ran on AC motors synchronous with the power line frequency. Thus there was always a chance that two communicating machines may not have been synchronized to the same power grid or even run on alternating current using different frequencies for that matter.
Thus, in order to allow a slower machine to catch-up and not drift out of synch, two stop bits were sent.
For other purposes such as allowing for the printing carriage to return to the beginning of a new line, a CR, LF plus two rubouts were sent (all holes on an 8 level tape).
It was customary for circuits running at speeds of 110 Baud and slower only. |
29,945 | UARTs often let you choose between 1, 1.5 and 2 stop bits. With 1 stop bit payload efficiency is 80% (8/10), with 2 stop bits that drops to 72.7% (8/11). So what's the advantage of the second stop bit? | 2012/04/15 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29945",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/3920/"
] | Two stop bits are unlikely to be much more useful than one on a system that has a significant proportion of stopped time and which is working in a low noise (low BER) environment such as internal to equipment or in a peripheral interface with a few metres of cable and/or without a modem-modem stage.
2 stop bits give you greater synchronisation time, more time to process between
characters and probably, depending on hardware and algorithms, better chance of gaining or regaining synchronisation during a continuous data stream. Intercharacter time is of much less value on modern systems than when clock speeds were low and processor throughput lower.
If you have an essentially continuous data stream, then if unsynchronised, any high bit will look like a stop bit. Any high low transition will look like a byte boundary. If your receiver starts on a 10 boundary and it is not a true start boundary then this will only be discovered 50% of the time )(ie if the final "stop bit" is found to actually be a low data bit and you will also have skipped over the genuine stop/start boundary along the way. On average you have 1/4 prospect of a byte boundary being 1/0 and falsely looking like a stop/start pair. The above suggests that if you choose a false stop-start pair then there is probably about 50% chance that you will choose another one on the following attempt.
If you use 2 stop bits (11) then a valid stop start sequence is 110 which has 1/8th chance of occurring in random data traffic. The mixing of genuine stop and start bits in the unsynchronised flow changes the statistics slightly but it seems relatively unlikely that if you get a false 110 stop/start sequence on one cycle that you'll hit another one next try before stumbling over the genuine 110 sequence which next occurs.
As you note, 1 stop bit yields 8/10 = 80% max throughput and 2 stop bits yield 8/11 = 72% efficiency. The difference in throughput at the utter limit is 80%/72% =~ 11% more. This is a useful gain in extreme circumstances but not vast and if the circuit is idle more than about 10% of the time it's of minimal value. If your circuit is noisy and prone to occasional synchronisation loss then the extra stop bit may help a lot. BUT if you care that much about throughput you can often increase the baud rate (not always) or change to fully synchronous operation. | As you know UART is an asynchronous method of data transfer, this means that the clock of receiver and transmitter is not synchronous.
So as the number of received bit increases the receiver sampling time drifts from the middle of the bit duration, So the stop bit can be set to be as wide as 2 bit duration so that we are sure that receiver can sample the stop bit correctly.
As mentioned above there could be some other reasons like slowing down the transmission rate for the receiver to be able to receive correctly.
But i think other yet important reason is what i mentioned. |
29,945 | UARTs often let you choose between 1, 1.5 and 2 stop bits. With 1 stop bit payload efficiency is 80% (8/10), with 2 stop bits that drops to 72.7% (8/11). So what's the advantage of the second stop bit? | 2012/04/15 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29945",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/3920/"
] | Extra stop bits can be a useful way to add a little extra receive processing time, especially at high baud rates and/or using soft UART, where time is required to process the received byte.
Where speed is tight, and your UART only offers division ratios in powers of 2, adding an extra stopbit can be an option to give a less drastic reduction in speed than the next lowest baudrate.
I believe this is may one reason the DMX512 standard specifies 2 stopbits.
Another situation where they can be useful is if you have devices forwarding a data stream without any buffering or packetisation - small differences in clock rates between nodes and finite sampling granularity can cause errors to occur as data is received and retransmitted by a number of nodes in a chain, but if the data is sent with 2 stopbits and the receivers are set to one stopbit, it adds enough margin to accommodate these errors and leave at least one valid stopbit period for nodes far down the chain to receive reliably.
I have also enountered a situation where a very long cable run caused some asymmetry in the rise and fall times, resulting in inadequate stopbit length - sending 2 stopbits and having the receiver only require one fixed this. | Two stop bits are unlikely to be much more useful than one on a system that has a significant proportion of stopped time and which is working in a low noise (low BER) environment such as internal to equipment or in a peripheral interface with a few metres of cable and/or without a modem-modem stage.
2 stop bits give you greater synchronisation time, more time to process between
characters and probably, depending on hardware and algorithms, better chance of gaining or regaining synchronisation during a continuous data stream. Intercharacter time is of much less value on modern systems than when clock speeds were low and processor throughput lower.
If you have an essentially continuous data stream, then if unsynchronised, any high bit will look like a stop bit. Any high low transition will look like a byte boundary. If your receiver starts on a 10 boundary and it is not a true start boundary then this will only be discovered 50% of the time )(ie if the final "stop bit" is found to actually be a low data bit and you will also have skipped over the genuine stop/start boundary along the way. On average you have 1/4 prospect of a byte boundary being 1/0 and falsely looking like a stop/start pair. The above suggests that if you choose a false stop-start pair then there is probably about 50% chance that you will choose another one on the following attempt.
If you use 2 stop bits (11) then a valid stop start sequence is 110 which has 1/8th chance of occurring in random data traffic. The mixing of genuine stop and start bits in the unsynchronised flow changes the statistics slightly but it seems relatively unlikely that if you get a false 110 stop/start sequence on one cycle that you'll hit another one next try before stumbling over the genuine 110 sequence which next occurs.
As you note, 1 stop bit yields 8/10 = 80% max throughput and 2 stop bits yield 8/11 = 72% efficiency. The difference in throughput at the utter limit is 80%/72% =~ 11% more. This is a useful gain in extreme circumstances but not vast and if the circuit is idle more than about 10% of the time it's of minimal value. If your circuit is noisy and prone to occasional synchronisation loss then the extra stop bit may help a lot. BUT if you care that much about throughput you can often increase the baud rate (not always) or change to fully synchronous operation. |
29,945 | UARTs often let you choose between 1, 1.5 and 2 stop bits. With 1 stop bit payload efficiency is 80% (8/10), with 2 stop bits that drops to 72.7% (8/11). So what's the advantage of the second stop bit? | 2012/04/15 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29945",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/3920/"
] | To amplify mikeselectricstuff's point about receive time with "soft UARTs", a receive application that will always know when to accept data and does so on a polling basis can often handle faster baud rates than would be practical with an interrupt-driven soft UART. Such applications, however, can only process incoming data during the time between the start of one byte's stop bit and the next byte's start bit; the time required to process each byte ends up being the limiting factor for communications speed. Processing data at 115,200-N-8-2 is not much more demanding than processing it at 57,600-N-8-1, but it's more than 80% faster.
Sometimes one can push things even further by using seemingly-less-efficient data formats. For example, one can send each byte in two pieces, one with seven bits and one with one (the MSB's of the one-bit part are all set). If one does that, even with only one stop bit, there will be eight bit times of marking between the end of one byte-pair and the start of the next, thus allowing one to push the bit rate four times as high as what one could do with only two stop bits (and eight times as high as what one could do with one). Despite having to send twice as many bytes, the four-fold increase in data rate would be a major win. In addition, although each transmitted byte pair could be used to send eight bits of data, only 130 out of 256 possible byte values would be used by the encoding, leaving 126 values available for signalling or other purposes. | Slowness of the receiving mechanical devices was the reason behind adding the extra stop bits, however the devices today are fast enough and work at even higher baud rates without the need of an extra stop bit |
29,945 | UARTs often let you choose between 1, 1.5 and 2 stop bits. With 1 stop bit payload efficiency is 80% (8/10), with 2 stop bits that drops to 72.7% (8/11). So what's the advantage of the second stop bit? | 2012/04/15 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29945",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/3920/"
] | Once upon a time there were electromechanical monsters called teletypes. Most ran on AC motors synchronous with the power line frequency. Thus there was always a chance that two communicating machines may not have been synchronized to the same power grid or even run on alternating current using different frequencies for that matter.
Thus, in order to allow a slower machine to catch-up and not drift out of synch, two stop bits were sent.
For other purposes such as allowing for the printing carriage to return to the beginning of a new line, a CR, LF plus two rubouts were sent (all holes on an 8 level tape).
It was customary for circuits running at speeds of 110 Baud and slower only. | As you know UART is an asynchronous method of data transfer, this means that the clock of receiver and transmitter is not synchronous.
So as the number of received bit increases the receiver sampling time drifts from the middle of the bit duration, So the stop bit can be set to be as wide as 2 bit duration so that we are sure that receiver can sample the stop bit correctly.
As mentioned above there could be some other reasons like slowing down the transmission rate for the receiver to be able to receive correctly.
But i think other yet important reason is what i mentioned. |
29,945 | UARTs often let you choose between 1, 1.5 and 2 stop bits. With 1 stop bit payload efficiency is 80% (8/10), with 2 stop bits that drops to 72.7% (8/11). So what's the advantage of the second stop bit? | 2012/04/15 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29945",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/3920/"
] | In days long gone printers were (almost) all-mechanical constructs. Baudrates were somewhat standardised even then, so adding an extra stop bit would give the printer some extra time to print the character. Timing aspects were more visibly back then. For my first printer, an noisy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33> , I had to insert a pause of two characters after sending a Carriage Return. | As you know UART is an asynchronous method of data transfer, this means that the clock of receiver and transmitter is not synchronous.
So as the number of received bit increases the receiver sampling time drifts from the middle of the bit duration, So the stop bit can be set to be as wide as 2 bit duration so that we are sure that receiver can sample the stop bit correctly.
As mentioned above there could be some other reasons like slowing down the transmission rate for the receiver to be able to receive correctly.
But i think other yet important reason is what i mentioned. |
29,945 | UARTs often let you choose between 1, 1.5 and 2 stop bits. With 1 stop bit payload efficiency is 80% (8/10), with 2 stop bits that drops to 72.7% (8/11). So what's the advantage of the second stop bit? | 2012/04/15 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29945",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/3920/"
] | In days long gone printers were (almost) all-mechanical constructs. Baudrates were somewhat standardised even then, so adding an extra stop bit would give the printer some extra time to print the character. Timing aspects were more visibly back then. For my first printer, an noisy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33> , I had to insert a pause of two characters after sending a Carriage Return. | Slowness of the receiving mechanical devices was the reason behind adding the extra stop bits, however the devices today are fast enough and work at even higher baud rates without the need of an extra stop bit |
29,945 | UARTs often let you choose between 1, 1.5 and 2 stop bits. With 1 stop bit payload efficiency is 80% (8/10), with 2 stop bits that drops to 72.7% (8/11). So what's the advantage of the second stop bit? | 2012/04/15 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29945",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/3920/"
] | To amplify mikeselectricstuff's point about receive time with "soft UARTs", a receive application that will always know when to accept data and does so on a polling basis can often handle faster baud rates than would be practical with an interrupt-driven soft UART. Such applications, however, can only process incoming data during the time between the start of one byte's stop bit and the next byte's start bit; the time required to process each byte ends up being the limiting factor for communications speed. Processing data at 115,200-N-8-2 is not much more demanding than processing it at 57,600-N-8-1, but it's more than 80% faster.
Sometimes one can push things even further by using seemingly-less-efficient data formats. For example, one can send each byte in two pieces, one with seven bits and one with one (the MSB's of the one-bit part are all set). If one does that, even with only one stop bit, there will be eight bit times of marking between the end of one byte-pair and the start of the next, thus allowing one to push the bit rate four times as high as what one could do with only two stop bits (and eight times as high as what one could do with one). Despite having to send twice as many bytes, the four-fold increase in data rate would be a major win. In addition, although each transmitted byte pair could be used to send eight bits of data, only 130 out of 256 possible byte values would be used by the encoding, leaving 126 values available for signalling or other purposes. | As you know UART is an asynchronous method of data transfer, this means that the clock of receiver and transmitter is not synchronous.
So as the number of received bit increases the receiver sampling time drifts from the middle of the bit duration, So the stop bit can be set to be as wide as 2 bit duration so that we are sure that receiver can sample the stop bit correctly.
As mentioned above there could be some other reasons like slowing down the transmission rate for the receiver to be able to receive correctly.
But i think other yet important reason is what i mentioned. |
29,945 | UARTs often let you choose between 1, 1.5 and 2 stop bits. With 1 stop bit payload efficiency is 80% (8/10), with 2 stop bits that drops to 72.7% (8/11). So what's the advantage of the second stop bit? | 2012/04/15 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29945",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/3920/"
] | Two stop bits are unlikely to be much more useful than one on a system that has a significant proportion of stopped time and which is working in a low noise (low BER) environment such as internal to equipment or in a peripheral interface with a few metres of cable and/or without a modem-modem stage.
2 stop bits give you greater synchronisation time, more time to process between
characters and probably, depending on hardware and algorithms, better chance of gaining or regaining synchronisation during a continuous data stream. Intercharacter time is of much less value on modern systems than when clock speeds were low and processor throughput lower.
If you have an essentially continuous data stream, then if unsynchronised, any high bit will look like a stop bit. Any high low transition will look like a byte boundary. If your receiver starts on a 10 boundary and it is not a true start boundary then this will only be discovered 50% of the time )(ie if the final "stop bit" is found to actually be a low data bit and you will also have skipped over the genuine stop/start boundary along the way. On average you have 1/4 prospect of a byte boundary being 1/0 and falsely looking like a stop/start pair. The above suggests that if you choose a false stop-start pair then there is probably about 50% chance that you will choose another one on the following attempt.
If you use 2 stop bits (11) then a valid stop start sequence is 110 which has 1/8th chance of occurring in random data traffic. The mixing of genuine stop and start bits in the unsynchronised flow changes the statistics slightly but it seems relatively unlikely that if you get a false 110 stop/start sequence on one cycle that you'll hit another one next try before stumbling over the genuine 110 sequence which next occurs.
As you note, 1 stop bit yields 8/10 = 80% max throughput and 2 stop bits yield 8/11 = 72% efficiency. The difference in throughput at the utter limit is 80%/72% =~ 11% more. This is a useful gain in extreme circumstances but not vast and if the circuit is idle more than about 10% of the time it's of minimal value. If your circuit is noisy and prone to occasional synchronisation loss then the extra stop bit may help a lot. BUT if you care that much about throughput you can often increase the baud rate (not always) or change to fully synchronous operation. | Slowness of the receiving mechanical devices was the reason behind adding the extra stop bits, however the devices today are fast enough and work at even higher baud rates without the need of an extra stop bit |
29,945 | UARTs often let you choose between 1, 1.5 and 2 stop bits. With 1 stop bit payload efficiency is 80% (8/10), with 2 stop bits that drops to 72.7% (8/11). So what's the advantage of the second stop bit? | 2012/04/15 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29945",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/3920/"
] | Extra stop bits can be a useful way to add a little extra receive processing time, especially at high baud rates and/or using soft UART, where time is required to process the received byte.
Where speed is tight, and your UART only offers division ratios in powers of 2, adding an extra stopbit can be an option to give a less drastic reduction in speed than the next lowest baudrate.
I believe this is may one reason the DMX512 standard specifies 2 stopbits.
Another situation where they can be useful is if you have devices forwarding a data stream without any buffering or packetisation - small differences in clock rates between nodes and finite sampling granularity can cause errors to occur as data is received and retransmitted by a number of nodes in a chain, but if the data is sent with 2 stopbits and the receivers are set to one stopbit, it adds enough margin to accommodate these errors and leave at least one valid stopbit period for nodes far down the chain to receive reliably.
I have also enountered a situation where a very long cable run caused some asymmetry in the rise and fall times, resulting in inadequate stopbit length - sending 2 stopbits and having the receiver only require one fixed this. | Once upon a time there were electromechanical monsters called teletypes. Most ran on AC motors synchronous with the power line frequency. Thus there was always a chance that two communicating machines may not have been synchronized to the same power grid or even run on alternating current using different frequencies for that matter.
Thus, in order to allow a slower machine to catch-up and not drift out of synch, two stop bits were sent.
For other purposes such as allowing for the printing carriage to return to the beginning of a new line, a CR, LF plus two rubouts were sent (all holes on an 8 level tape).
It was customary for circuits running at speeds of 110 Baud and slower only. |
177,782 | Kylo Ren corrupted some of Luke's students to create the Knights of Ren. But, why aren't we seeing these force guys?
Were the Snoke's red uniformed bodyguards the Knights of Ren? If so, why did they attack Kylo Ren after the death of Snoke? | 2017/12/31 | [
"https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/177782",
"https://scifi.stackexchange.com",
"https://scifi.stackexchange.com/users/931/"
] | At this point, we have enough info to partially answer your question. Snoke's Praetorian Guard **definitely weren't the remnants of Ren's personal hit-squad**. Not only were there more of them (eight Praetorians versus seven Knights of Ren) but the Knights are described in the [Ultimate Star Wars, New Edition](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ultimate_Star_Wars,_New_Edition) factbook as being a) "loyal to Kylo Ren" rather than to Snoke and b) "Species: Unknown" whereas the Guards are described as "human".
>
> **The Knight of Ren**
>
> **SPECIES**: Unknown
>
> **HOMEWORLD**: Unknown
>
> **AFFILIATION**: **Loyal to Kylo Ren**
>
>
> The Knights of Ren are **Kylo Ren's most deadly and mysterious servants.** With their bodies encased in rusty, battered armor and their faces permanently concealed beneath ominous masks—echoing that of the new Supreme Leader himself—even their species remains a mystery. What is obvious to anyone who witnesses them in action is that their fighting skills and martial prowess are without equal. Each Knight is armed with a lethally effective and unique weapon, suited to either long range or close-quarter combat.
>
>
>
---
Additionally, the director of *The Last Jedi* indicated that although he briefly considered making the Knights into Snoke's guard, this would have added an unneeded distraction from the fight scene and that having Kylo kill his former footsoldiers would require additional plotline in an already crowded film.
>
> *“We have a very full movie already there literally was just not room
> for another element...I guess I could’ve used them in place of the
> Praetorian guards but then it would feel like wasting them because all
> those guards had to die,” Johnson told the Empire podcast. “And if
> Kylo had some kind of connection to them it would’ve added a
> complication that wouldn’t have helped the scene...truth is I just
> didn’t see a place for them in the movie.”*
>
>
> [Star Wars: Rian Johnson Explains Why He Didn't Explore the Knights of Ren in 'The Last Jedi'](https://comicbook.com/2018/01/17/star-wars-the-last-jedi-knight-of-ren-rian-johnson-comments/)
>
>
> | 1. We never find out who exactly they were. There's nothing to confirm they were former Jedi students.
2. The Knights of Ren are not Snoke's Praetorian guards either. Kylo and Rey made short work of them in TLJ, while
>
> the Knights of Ren appear in *Rise of Skywalker*. They are also not Palpatine's Praetorian guards either, as we see them all together at the end of ROS
>
>
>
It appears, based on the events of *Rise of Skywalker*, that
>
> they were, in some form, working for Palpatine and his Sith cult on Exogal. We can assume this based on the fact that they reappear only after Kylo makes it there. They also reappear in the Sith "pit" on Exogal to confront Kylo/Ben when Ben is trying to rescue Rey. Whomever they were, they were almost certainly part of the Sith cult, because it's hard to imagine them being allowed that far into the "pit" with their weapons without some trustworthiness.
>
>
> |
44,071 | A [conspiracy news site](https://thetruthrevolution.net/hundreds-of-birds-fall-from-the-sky-during-5g-test-in-the-netherlands/) claims that (emphasis added):
>
> Hundreds of birds have fallen from the sky in The Hague, the Netherlands, during a 5G experiment to see how large the range was and whether the new wireless technology would cause any harm in the local area.
>
>
> News of the adverse effects suffered by the starlings was slow to break, as initially the birds died in small numbers during the first wave of the experiment. However when a further 150 birds suddenly died at the same time, falling into a public park, people began to take notice and investigate.
>
>
> What caused the death of 297 birds in a park in The Hague?
>
>
> If you look around that park you might have seen what is on the corner of the roof across the street from where they died: **a new 5G mast, where they had done a test at almost the *exact same time* as the birds fell from the sky**.
>
>
>
And while it does list some sources, they are either dead, some Facebook scribble, or just not proving anything altogether.
I also couldn't find any other reliable source for this event (or one that links it to the 5G test). | 2019/05/20 | [
"https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/44071",
"https://skeptics.stackexchange.com",
"https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/users/46383/"
] | **No, while 337 starlings (<5% of the population) and 2 common wood pigeons were found dead in a Netherlands park, this was not due to a 5G test. The birds died 4 months after the only conducted 5G test and such "bird death" events are quite common.**
[Snopes](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/5g-cellular-test-birds/) is my first search result for "The Hague dead birds".
They say unexplained bird deaths occurring in a park (Huijgenspark) in The Hague, Netherlands were **not** caused by a 5G test.
While "It is true a series of mysterious bird deaths has occurred at a park in The Hague," such bird deaths are not uncommon.
>
> Mysterious bird deaths, though great fodder for conspiracy cranks, are not uncommon. Due to their unexplained nature, they are popular with those seeking to stoke fears or make political or religious points. In 2011, for example, Arkansas, Louisiana, and parts of Sweden were the site of thousands of bird deaths in a short time, which the media dubbed “the aflockalypse.” Contemporaneous reporting by the Associated Press made it clear that these mass die-offs are quite common and often unexplained:
>
>
>
> >
> > Since the 1970s, the U.S. Geological Survey’s National Wildlife Health Center in Wisconsin has tracked mass deaths among birds, fish and other critters, said wildlife disease specialist LeAnn White. At times the sky and the streams just turn deadly. Sometimes it’s disease, sometimes pollution. Other times it’s just a mystery … **On average, 163 such events are reported to the federal government each year, according to USGS records.**
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
With 163 mass bird death events a year in the US, it is certainly much more common than expected. In fact, as recently as February 6, there was a [mass death event](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/06/netherlands-guillemots-death) of **20,000** birds (also in the Netherlands)!
Furthermore, the 5G test was performed on June 28, 2018 ([source](https://www.telecompaper.com/news/huawei-demos-live-5g-network-in-netherlands--1250567)) near Huijgenspark. The earliest news of the dead birds I could find (of the first 30 dead Starlings) were on October 23, 2018 [here](https://www.ad.nl/den-haag/dertig-spreeuwen-overleden-in-een-nacht%7Ea3714f5e/) and [here](https://web.archive.org/web/20190406170717/http://www.msn.com/nl-nl/nieuws/opmerkelijk/meer-dan-honderd-vogels-vallen-dood-uit-bomen-in-den-haag/ar-BBOV8d7). Thus, around four months elapsed between the 5G test and the first news reports of dead birds. An additional 30 dead starlings were found the next day ([source](https://www.ad.nl/den-haag/massale-mysterieuze-spreeuwensterfte-weer-30-dode-vogels-gevonden%7Ea9ac48388/)) bringing the total death toll to 60 starlings. Birds (mostly starlings) continued to die over the coming days. On 5 November 2018, The Hague published a [news release](http://archive.is/jWymZ#selection-549.0-549.119) (later updated on 12 November 2018). Quoted below are excerpts of two non-contiguous paragraphs.
>
> Between Friday, 19 October and Saturday, 3 November 2018, 337 dead starlings and 2 dead common wood pigeons were found.
>
>
> There is still no evidence that the birds' death was caused by testing the new 5G network for mobile telephones. The Antennebureau (Agentschap Telecom) has confirmed that no 5G tests were conducted around Huygenspark [around the time of the bird deaths].
>
>
>
**As the dead birds started dying four months after the test, it is unlikely the test killed the birds.** Also, consider the below questions posited by a bird shelter in The Hague on a [Facebook post](https://www.facebook.com/vogelopvangdewulp/posts/940528466132874) (translated from Dutch with Google).
>
> [There has been much speculation about the 5G test, which has been extensively discussed and is] regarded by almost all parties as non-logical. Why [were] only starlings [found dead]? And why on multiple days? And why "only" 150 total [this post was published when the death toll didn't reach the maximum] when it might be 1000 or more starlings in the [flock]? The animals were not killed by terror and no sick animals were found.
>
>
>
Snopes additionally states that there were no other tests during the period of bird deaths (which concurs with the official statement of The Hague quoted above(emphasis added).
>
> **No evidence suggests that any other 5G test ever occurred in The Hague** or that a 5G antenna was installed near that park conveniently out of view. We reached out via Twitter to the Dutch company NS, the operator of the train station allegedly involved in the 5G test, and a representative told us that they were “unaware that recent 5G tests were conducted at this location.” A representative of KPN, the largest mobile operator in The Netherlands, told us via Twitter that “I can be very clear about this matter; there are no 5G tests in Den Haag. This is a complete hoax.” Huawei, the cellular provider who took part in the one-day June test, did not respond to our inquiry about a test occurring, but the Dutch equivalent to the FCC asserted that no such test occurred.
>
>
>
This viewpoint is repeated by a Dutch bird shelter [here](https://www.facebook.com/vogelopvangdewulp/posts/943157569203297).
As the one test didn't kill the birds, and other tests weren't conducted, 5G cellular network tests didn't kill the birds that fell out of the sky.
>
> Did “hundreds of birds” fall out of the sky in the Netherlands due to a 5G test?
>
>
>
**No, while 339 birds did fall out of the sky in a Netherlands park, this was not due to a 5G test.** The birds died four months after the 5G test. In addition, birds mysteriously falling dead are "quite common."
---
The [Rotterdam Natural History Museum](https://www.hetnatuurhistorisch.nl/) published a [document](https://www.hetnatuurhistorisch.nl/fileadmin/user_upload/documents-nmr/Straatgras/Straatgras_2018/Straatgras_2018_2/Straatgras_2018_2_15_SPREEUWEN.pdf) estimating the number of starlings around Huijgenspark (where the dead birds were found) to be 10,000. ("Ze zagen rond halfacht de zwerm van naar schatting 10.000 spreeuwen in noordoostelijke richting over de nog slapende stad vertrekken.") If this estimate were accurate, less than 5% of starlings around Huijgenspark died from this event. This percentage puts the large number of "hundreds of birds" into perspective.
Snopes also addresses if a 5G cellular network can kill birds (emphasis added).
>
> In Europe, 5G will make use of three frequency ranges: a low-frequency 700MHz “coverage layer,” a 3.4-3.8GHz band which will be the primary bandwidth, and a “super data layer” in the higher frequency 24.25-27.5GHz band. This latter range is more theoretical and is not what has been tested in The Netherlands thus far, as the only known test of 5G in the Hague utilized the 3.4-3.8GHz band. Regardless, **all of these frequencies fall within a range considered by the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (first in 1998 and again in 2009) to be safe**:
>
>
>
> >
> > It is the opinion of ICNIRP that the scientific literature published since the 1998 guidelines has provided no evidence of any adverse effects below the basic restrictions and does not necessitate an immediate revision of its guidance on limiting exposure to high frequency electromagnetic fields … The plausibility of the various non-thermal mechanisms that have been proposed is very low. In addition, the recent in vitro and animal genotoxicity and carcinogenicity studies are rather consistent overall and indicate that such effects are unlikely at low levels of exposure. Therefore, ICNIRP reconfirms the 1998 basic restrictions in the frequency range 100 kHz–300 GHz until further notice.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Snopes also emailed Dr. Eric van Rongen, a member of the Health Council of the Netherlands and the Chairman of the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection.
>
> “Even if there would have been 5G exposure,” he told us, it is “very unlikely that that could cause the [bird] mortality.”
>
>
>
The cause of death is not completely known. It is known that "the starlings must have forcefully flown towards and collided with the ground in a sudden fit of panic, upon arrival or departure from their resting places, and that these impacts were fatal." ([The Holland Times](https://www.hollandtimes.nl/articles/national/cause-of-mass-deaths-of-starlings-in-the-hague-identified/)) From the same source:
>
> Kees Moeliker, director of the museum, and Erwin Kompanje, a senior researcher, discovered extreme internal bleeding in all examined birds, as a result of ruptured livers. The dead birds had also suffered severe damage to the blood vessels, lungs and heart.
>
>
>
Various viruses ("Usutuvirus, warfarin, bird flu, chlamydia and West Nile ([source](https://www.facebook.com/vogelopvangdewulp/photos/a.248740155311712/941992432653144/?type=3&theater))") and natural toxins ([source](https://www.hollandtimes.nl/articles/national/cause-of-mass-deaths-of-starlings-in-the-hague-identified/)) were excluded. Additionally, the dead birds had an above-average body weight so weren't likely to have died of exhaustion ([source](https://www.hetnatuurhistorisch.nl/fileadmin/user_upload/documents-nmr/Straatgras/Straatgras_2018/Straatgras_2018_2/Straatgras_2018_2_15_SPREEUWEN.pdf)). The same source additionally states that aside from the internal bleeding due to trauma, the internal organs were healthy. | Snopes actually [has more details](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/5g-cellular-test-birds/) refuting the sequence of events; because tests of 5G use yet unallocated spectrum, they need special regulatory approval.
>
> One such test did occur in an area generally near Huijgenspark, but it took place on 28 June 2018, and it was not followed by a massive bird die-off. For this test, the Dutch equivalent of the FCC provided a one-day permit for the telecommunication company Huawei to use the 5G frequencies needed for the test:
>
>
>
> >
> > Huawei has demonstrated a live 5G network in The Hague, using 100 MHz of spectrum in the C-band at 3.5 GHz. As the frequencies are not normally available for mobile services in the Netherlands, the Telecom Agency granted a special one-day permit for the demonstration at the KPN office in the Voorburg area. The band is available for local licensing, but in allotments far smaller than the full 100 MHz width that is standardized for 5G.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> No evidence suggests that any other 5G test ever occurred in The Hague or that a 5G antenna was installed near that park conveniently out of view. We reached out via Twitter to the Dutch company NS, the operator of the train station allegedly involved in the 5G test, and a representative told us that they were “unaware that recent 5G tests were conducted at this location.” A representative of KPN, the largest mobile operator in The Netherlands, told us via Twitter that “I can be very clear about this matter; there are no 5G tests in Den Haag. This is a complete hoax.” Huawei, the cellular provider who took part in the one-day June test, did not respond to our inquiry about a test occurring, but the Dutch equivalent to the FCC asserted that no such test occurred.
>
>
>
And the cause for the dead birds [was finally identified](https://www.hollandtimes.nl/articles/national/cause-of-mass-deaths-of-starlings-in-the-hague-identified/) as physical trauma:
>
> The mystery occurred in the Huijgenspark, close to Hollands Spoor station in The Hague. The surroundings and trees in this part of the city are an important gathering spot for starlings. Initial speculations in Autumn, when the sudden massive deaths occurred, pointed towards possible intentional poisoning of the birds, which, as history shows, is at least worthy of consideration. Other speculations pointed to the possible contamination of the natural waters in which flocks of starlings indulge, and to the testing of a new 5G cell phone tower, believed to have a negative environmental impact. The 5G mast is visible from the site where the flocks of birds died, which didn’t help its case. [...]
>
>
> Researchers at the National History Museum in Rotterdam performed a necropsy on at least fifteen birds to determine the cause of death and shed light on the mystery. Kees Moeliker, director of the museum, and Erwin Kompanje, a senior researcher, discovered extreme internal bleeding in all examined birds, as a result of ruptured livers. The dead birds had also suffered severe damage to the blood vessels, lungs and heart. But this solved only one part of the mystery. The researchers concluded in Straatgras, the National History Museum magazine, that the starlings must have forcefully flown towards and collided with the ground in a sudden fit of panic, upon arrival or departure from their resting places, and that these impacts were fatal. The WBVR laboratory in Lelystad joined the National History Museum in its conclusion, putting all speculation to rest and eliminating the possibility of human error or experiment, harmful viruses or diseases. As of this moment, the assumed cause of death is that the birds collided with deadly force with each other, with tree branches or with the ground due to being panicked and disoriented.
>
>
>
As with such cases it's probably not really possible to tell what caused the impact/panic. Such events have been observed elsewhere, e.g. [in Canada](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bird-kill-mystery-tsawwassen-1.4829960) or [in the UK](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1257111/Mystery-scores-starlings-fall-sky-lay-dying--single-garden.html). |
44,071 | A [conspiracy news site](https://thetruthrevolution.net/hundreds-of-birds-fall-from-the-sky-during-5g-test-in-the-netherlands/) claims that (emphasis added):
>
> Hundreds of birds have fallen from the sky in The Hague, the Netherlands, during a 5G experiment to see how large the range was and whether the new wireless technology would cause any harm in the local area.
>
>
> News of the adverse effects suffered by the starlings was slow to break, as initially the birds died in small numbers during the first wave of the experiment. However when a further 150 birds suddenly died at the same time, falling into a public park, people began to take notice and investigate.
>
>
> What caused the death of 297 birds in a park in The Hague?
>
>
> If you look around that park you might have seen what is on the corner of the roof across the street from where they died: **a new 5G mast, where they had done a test at almost the *exact same time* as the birds fell from the sky**.
>
>
>
And while it does list some sources, they are either dead, some Facebook scribble, or just not proving anything altogether.
I also couldn't find any other reliable source for this event (or one that links it to the 5G test). | 2019/05/20 | [
"https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/44071",
"https://skeptics.stackexchange.com",
"https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/users/46383/"
] | **No, while 337 starlings (<5% of the population) and 2 common wood pigeons were found dead in a Netherlands park, this was not due to a 5G test. The birds died 4 months after the only conducted 5G test and such "bird death" events are quite common.**
[Snopes](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/5g-cellular-test-birds/) is my first search result for "The Hague dead birds".
They say unexplained bird deaths occurring in a park (Huijgenspark) in The Hague, Netherlands were **not** caused by a 5G test.
While "It is true a series of mysterious bird deaths has occurred at a park in The Hague," such bird deaths are not uncommon.
>
> Mysterious bird deaths, though great fodder for conspiracy cranks, are not uncommon. Due to their unexplained nature, they are popular with those seeking to stoke fears or make political or religious points. In 2011, for example, Arkansas, Louisiana, and parts of Sweden were the site of thousands of bird deaths in a short time, which the media dubbed “the aflockalypse.” Contemporaneous reporting by the Associated Press made it clear that these mass die-offs are quite common and often unexplained:
>
>
>
> >
> > Since the 1970s, the U.S. Geological Survey’s National Wildlife Health Center in Wisconsin has tracked mass deaths among birds, fish and other critters, said wildlife disease specialist LeAnn White. At times the sky and the streams just turn deadly. Sometimes it’s disease, sometimes pollution. Other times it’s just a mystery … **On average, 163 such events are reported to the federal government each year, according to USGS records.**
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
With 163 mass bird death events a year in the US, it is certainly much more common than expected. In fact, as recently as February 6, there was a [mass death event](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/06/netherlands-guillemots-death) of **20,000** birds (also in the Netherlands)!
Furthermore, the 5G test was performed on June 28, 2018 ([source](https://www.telecompaper.com/news/huawei-demos-live-5g-network-in-netherlands--1250567)) near Huijgenspark. The earliest news of the dead birds I could find (of the first 30 dead Starlings) were on October 23, 2018 [here](https://www.ad.nl/den-haag/dertig-spreeuwen-overleden-in-een-nacht%7Ea3714f5e/) and [here](https://web.archive.org/web/20190406170717/http://www.msn.com/nl-nl/nieuws/opmerkelijk/meer-dan-honderd-vogels-vallen-dood-uit-bomen-in-den-haag/ar-BBOV8d7). Thus, around four months elapsed between the 5G test and the first news reports of dead birds. An additional 30 dead starlings were found the next day ([source](https://www.ad.nl/den-haag/massale-mysterieuze-spreeuwensterfte-weer-30-dode-vogels-gevonden%7Ea9ac48388/)) bringing the total death toll to 60 starlings. Birds (mostly starlings) continued to die over the coming days. On 5 November 2018, The Hague published a [news release](http://archive.is/jWymZ#selection-549.0-549.119) (later updated on 12 November 2018). Quoted below are excerpts of two non-contiguous paragraphs.
>
> Between Friday, 19 October and Saturday, 3 November 2018, 337 dead starlings and 2 dead common wood pigeons were found.
>
>
> There is still no evidence that the birds' death was caused by testing the new 5G network for mobile telephones. The Antennebureau (Agentschap Telecom) has confirmed that no 5G tests were conducted around Huygenspark [around the time of the bird deaths].
>
>
>
**As the dead birds started dying four months after the test, it is unlikely the test killed the birds.** Also, consider the below questions posited by a bird shelter in The Hague on a [Facebook post](https://www.facebook.com/vogelopvangdewulp/posts/940528466132874) (translated from Dutch with Google).
>
> [There has been much speculation about the 5G test, which has been extensively discussed and is] regarded by almost all parties as non-logical. Why [were] only starlings [found dead]? And why on multiple days? And why "only" 150 total [this post was published when the death toll didn't reach the maximum] when it might be 1000 or more starlings in the [flock]? The animals were not killed by terror and no sick animals were found.
>
>
>
Snopes additionally states that there were no other tests during the period of bird deaths (which concurs with the official statement of The Hague quoted above(emphasis added).
>
> **No evidence suggests that any other 5G test ever occurred in The Hague** or that a 5G antenna was installed near that park conveniently out of view. We reached out via Twitter to the Dutch company NS, the operator of the train station allegedly involved in the 5G test, and a representative told us that they were “unaware that recent 5G tests were conducted at this location.” A representative of KPN, the largest mobile operator in The Netherlands, told us via Twitter that “I can be very clear about this matter; there are no 5G tests in Den Haag. This is a complete hoax.” Huawei, the cellular provider who took part in the one-day June test, did not respond to our inquiry about a test occurring, but the Dutch equivalent to the FCC asserted that no such test occurred.
>
>
>
This viewpoint is repeated by a Dutch bird shelter [here](https://www.facebook.com/vogelopvangdewulp/posts/943157569203297).
As the one test didn't kill the birds, and other tests weren't conducted, 5G cellular network tests didn't kill the birds that fell out of the sky.
>
> Did “hundreds of birds” fall out of the sky in the Netherlands due to a 5G test?
>
>
>
**No, while 339 birds did fall out of the sky in a Netherlands park, this was not due to a 5G test.** The birds died four months after the 5G test. In addition, birds mysteriously falling dead are "quite common."
---
The [Rotterdam Natural History Museum](https://www.hetnatuurhistorisch.nl/) published a [document](https://www.hetnatuurhistorisch.nl/fileadmin/user_upload/documents-nmr/Straatgras/Straatgras_2018/Straatgras_2018_2/Straatgras_2018_2_15_SPREEUWEN.pdf) estimating the number of starlings around Huijgenspark (where the dead birds were found) to be 10,000. ("Ze zagen rond halfacht de zwerm van naar schatting 10.000 spreeuwen in noordoostelijke richting over de nog slapende stad vertrekken.") If this estimate were accurate, less than 5% of starlings around Huijgenspark died from this event. This percentage puts the large number of "hundreds of birds" into perspective.
Snopes also addresses if a 5G cellular network can kill birds (emphasis added).
>
> In Europe, 5G will make use of three frequency ranges: a low-frequency 700MHz “coverage layer,” a 3.4-3.8GHz band which will be the primary bandwidth, and a “super data layer” in the higher frequency 24.25-27.5GHz band. This latter range is more theoretical and is not what has been tested in The Netherlands thus far, as the only known test of 5G in the Hague utilized the 3.4-3.8GHz band. Regardless, **all of these frequencies fall within a range considered by the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (first in 1998 and again in 2009) to be safe**:
>
>
>
> >
> > It is the opinion of ICNIRP that the scientific literature published since the 1998 guidelines has provided no evidence of any adverse effects below the basic restrictions and does not necessitate an immediate revision of its guidance on limiting exposure to high frequency electromagnetic fields … The plausibility of the various non-thermal mechanisms that have been proposed is very low. In addition, the recent in vitro and animal genotoxicity and carcinogenicity studies are rather consistent overall and indicate that such effects are unlikely at low levels of exposure. Therefore, ICNIRP reconfirms the 1998 basic restrictions in the frequency range 100 kHz–300 GHz until further notice.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Snopes also emailed Dr. Eric van Rongen, a member of the Health Council of the Netherlands and the Chairman of the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection.
>
> “Even if there would have been 5G exposure,” he told us, it is “very unlikely that that could cause the [bird] mortality.”
>
>
>
The cause of death is not completely known. It is known that "the starlings must have forcefully flown towards and collided with the ground in a sudden fit of panic, upon arrival or departure from their resting places, and that these impacts were fatal." ([The Holland Times](https://www.hollandtimes.nl/articles/national/cause-of-mass-deaths-of-starlings-in-the-hague-identified/)) From the same source:
>
> Kees Moeliker, director of the museum, and Erwin Kompanje, a senior researcher, discovered extreme internal bleeding in all examined birds, as a result of ruptured livers. The dead birds had also suffered severe damage to the blood vessels, lungs and heart.
>
>
>
Various viruses ("Usutuvirus, warfarin, bird flu, chlamydia and West Nile ([source](https://www.facebook.com/vogelopvangdewulp/photos/a.248740155311712/941992432653144/?type=3&theater))") and natural toxins ([source](https://www.hollandtimes.nl/articles/national/cause-of-mass-deaths-of-starlings-in-the-hague-identified/)) were excluded. Additionally, the dead birds had an above-average body weight so weren't likely to have died of exhaustion ([source](https://www.hetnatuurhistorisch.nl/fileadmin/user_upload/documents-nmr/Straatgras/Straatgras_2018/Straatgras_2018_2/Straatgras_2018_2_15_SPREEUWEN.pdf)). The same source additionally states that aside from the internal bleeding due to trauma, the internal organs were healthy. | There is a short report on the swiss national broadcaster, SRF, about the incident, to be found here, in german: <https://www.srf.ch/news/wirtschaft/mobilfunk-geruechte-die-wichtigsten-antworten-in-der-5g-debatte>
In short it says (translation mine):
>
> Local authorities rebuted 5G-tests on that same day. Dead birds have
> been found over the course of several days anyways. Other reports were
> from people, that were not actually present at the place.
>
>
> |
44,071 | A [conspiracy news site](https://thetruthrevolution.net/hundreds-of-birds-fall-from-the-sky-during-5g-test-in-the-netherlands/) claims that (emphasis added):
>
> Hundreds of birds have fallen from the sky in The Hague, the Netherlands, during a 5G experiment to see how large the range was and whether the new wireless technology would cause any harm in the local area.
>
>
> News of the adverse effects suffered by the starlings was slow to break, as initially the birds died in small numbers during the first wave of the experiment. However when a further 150 birds suddenly died at the same time, falling into a public park, people began to take notice and investigate.
>
>
> What caused the death of 297 birds in a park in The Hague?
>
>
> If you look around that park you might have seen what is on the corner of the roof across the street from where they died: **a new 5G mast, where they had done a test at almost the *exact same time* as the birds fell from the sky**.
>
>
>
And while it does list some sources, they are either dead, some Facebook scribble, or just not proving anything altogether.
I also couldn't find any other reliable source for this event (or one that links it to the 5G test). | 2019/05/20 | [
"https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/44071",
"https://skeptics.stackexchange.com",
"https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/users/46383/"
] | Snopes actually [has more details](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/5g-cellular-test-birds/) refuting the sequence of events; because tests of 5G use yet unallocated spectrum, they need special regulatory approval.
>
> One such test did occur in an area generally near Huijgenspark, but it took place on 28 June 2018, and it was not followed by a massive bird die-off. For this test, the Dutch equivalent of the FCC provided a one-day permit for the telecommunication company Huawei to use the 5G frequencies needed for the test:
>
>
>
> >
> > Huawei has demonstrated a live 5G network in The Hague, using 100 MHz of spectrum in the C-band at 3.5 GHz. As the frequencies are not normally available for mobile services in the Netherlands, the Telecom Agency granted a special one-day permit for the demonstration at the KPN office in the Voorburg area. The band is available for local licensing, but in allotments far smaller than the full 100 MHz width that is standardized for 5G.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> No evidence suggests that any other 5G test ever occurred in The Hague or that a 5G antenna was installed near that park conveniently out of view. We reached out via Twitter to the Dutch company NS, the operator of the train station allegedly involved in the 5G test, and a representative told us that they were “unaware that recent 5G tests were conducted at this location.” A representative of KPN, the largest mobile operator in The Netherlands, told us via Twitter that “I can be very clear about this matter; there are no 5G tests in Den Haag. This is a complete hoax.” Huawei, the cellular provider who took part in the one-day June test, did not respond to our inquiry about a test occurring, but the Dutch equivalent to the FCC asserted that no such test occurred.
>
>
>
And the cause for the dead birds [was finally identified](https://www.hollandtimes.nl/articles/national/cause-of-mass-deaths-of-starlings-in-the-hague-identified/) as physical trauma:
>
> The mystery occurred in the Huijgenspark, close to Hollands Spoor station in The Hague. The surroundings and trees in this part of the city are an important gathering spot for starlings. Initial speculations in Autumn, when the sudden massive deaths occurred, pointed towards possible intentional poisoning of the birds, which, as history shows, is at least worthy of consideration. Other speculations pointed to the possible contamination of the natural waters in which flocks of starlings indulge, and to the testing of a new 5G cell phone tower, believed to have a negative environmental impact. The 5G mast is visible from the site where the flocks of birds died, which didn’t help its case. [...]
>
>
> Researchers at the National History Museum in Rotterdam performed a necropsy on at least fifteen birds to determine the cause of death and shed light on the mystery. Kees Moeliker, director of the museum, and Erwin Kompanje, a senior researcher, discovered extreme internal bleeding in all examined birds, as a result of ruptured livers. The dead birds had also suffered severe damage to the blood vessels, lungs and heart. But this solved only one part of the mystery. The researchers concluded in Straatgras, the National History Museum magazine, that the starlings must have forcefully flown towards and collided with the ground in a sudden fit of panic, upon arrival or departure from their resting places, and that these impacts were fatal. The WBVR laboratory in Lelystad joined the National History Museum in its conclusion, putting all speculation to rest and eliminating the possibility of human error or experiment, harmful viruses or diseases. As of this moment, the assumed cause of death is that the birds collided with deadly force with each other, with tree branches or with the ground due to being panicked and disoriented.
>
>
>
As with such cases it's probably not really possible to tell what caused the impact/panic. Such events have been observed elsewhere, e.g. [in Canada](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bird-kill-mystery-tsawwassen-1.4829960) or [in the UK](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1257111/Mystery-scores-starlings-fall-sky-lay-dying--single-garden.html). | There is a short report on the swiss national broadcaster, SRF, about the incident, to be found here, in german: <https://www.srf.ch/news/wirtschaft/mobilfunk-geruechte-die-wichtigsten-antworten-in-der-5g-debatte>
In short it says (translation mine):
>
> Local authorities rebuted 5G-tests on that same day. Dead birds have
> been found over the course of several days anyways. Other reports were
> from people, that were not actually present at the place.
>
>
> |
4,772 | Unfortunately, this is likely an off-topic question, but one which is about said off-topicness. Occasionally, when browsing through [story-identification](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/story-identification "show questions tagged 'story-identification'") items, one comes upon a request for a story that is non-sci-fi with people suggesting going to the [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com) to ask. That section of the site was closed in 2012. So far, I've been resorting to TV Trope's YKTS board, but is there an SE location to ask such questions? | 2014/06/27 | [
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4772",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/users/23243/"
] | For books? ~~Nothing on Stack Exchange.~~ There is now a [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com/) which accepts (well-worded and detailed) identification requests.
~~For movies? There's [Movies & TV](http://movies.stackexchange.com).~~
~~For TV? There's [Movies & TV](http://movies.stackexchange.com).~~
~~For anime? There's [Anime&Manga.SE](http://anime.stackexchange.com).~~ - they have now [completely banned](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/a/2806/28456) story-ID requests.
For video games? Nothing on Stack Exchange. There's [Arqade](http://gaming.stackexchange.com), but only in the very specific case when [you have an “artifact”](https://gaming.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/7617/how-best-to-ask-about-a-game-identification/7621#7621) (e.g. a screenshot).
Be sure to take the tour on each site to see the constraints they have on Story Identification questions, each of them has different expectations. | Unfortunately not. There isn't a place to ask such questions (yet).
There is a [Literature Proposal](http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/80865/literature) on Area 51 that would suit your needs, but it is still on the Definition stage.
You can always ask around our chat. Someone might be able to help you. |
4,772 | Unfortunately, this is likely an off-topic question, but one which is about said off-topicness. Occasionally, when browsing through [story-identification](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/story-identification "show questions tagged 'story-identification'") items, one comes upon a request for a story that is non-sci-fi with people suggesting going to the [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com) to ask. That section of the site was closed in 2012. So far, I've been resorting to TV Trope's YKTS board, but is there an SE location to ask such questions? | 2014/06/27 | [
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4772",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/users/23243/"
] | There are actually quite a few sites that allow some type of identification question:
* [Literature](https://literature.stackexchange.com): [Literature ID questions](https://literature.meta.stackexchange.com/q/1/5747) are on-topic. You can ask about more than books: comics, manga, graphic novels, short stories, and poems are on-topic. (To clarify, this site was launched in 2017, long after the old Literature site closed in 2012.)
* [Arqade](https://gaming.stackexchange.com/): [Game ID questions are on-topic](https://gaming.meta.stackexchange.com/a/10198/153006) if a screenshot, audio file or other "artifact" of the game is included. Otherwise, they have this [short list of external sites](https://gaming.meta.stackexchange.com/a/7618/153006) which may help you find games.
* [Retrocomputing](https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com): [Game ID questions](https://retrocomputing.meta.stackexchange.com/q/176/462) for [retro](https://retrocomputing.meta.stackexchange.com/q/2/462) games are on-topic.
* [Anime & Manga](https://anime.stackexchange.com/): Questions asking for the identification of anime or manga [are now **off**-topic](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/q/2805) (but there is [this answer](https://anime.stackexchange.com/a/4697/41946) to help in your search). Questions about identifying characters, episodes, or similar from a known series are [on-topic](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/a/4190), as are questions on identifying cosplay and merchandise when [there's a good reason to believe it's from an anime/manga](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4142). (But it looks like no more [music id](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4491/50617).)
* [RPG](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/): The tag [product-identification](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/product-identification) is appropriate for most id questions, unless you're asking to identify something within a known game and then you want to use the [content-identification tag](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/content-identification). In any case, as long as you're asking for the identification of a tabletop RPG (not a video game), it's likely on topic.
* [Board & Card Games](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/): This site accepts [identification questions](https://boardgames.meta.stackexchange.com/q/195) for anything matching the title of the site, using the [identify-this-game tag](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/identify-this-game). For [identification of foreign Magic: The Gathering cards](https://boardgames.meta.stackexchange.com/q/1185), there's a post with [guidance on how to find the answer yourself](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/q/18820).
And it's also worth mentioning:
* Movies & TV: ID questions of any type are now [**off**-topic](https://movies.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4087/70064). They do have a [list of external sites](https://movies.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4129/70064) that could help though.
* [Music Fans](https://musicfans.stackexchange.com/): After many years of lukewarmly supporting them, [no ID questions](https://musicfans.meta.stackexchange.com/q/733). | Unfortunately not. There isn't a place to ask such questions (yet).
There is a [Literature Proposal](http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/80865/literature) on Area 51 that would suit your needs, but it is still on the Definition stage.
You can always ask around our chat. Someone might be able to help you. |
4,772 | Unfortunately, this is likely an off-topic question, but one which is about said off-topicness. Occasionally, when browsing through [story-identification](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/story-identification "show questions tagged 'story-identification'") items, one comes upon a request for a story that is non-sci-fi with people suggesting going to the [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com) to ask. That section of the site was closed in 2012. So far, I've been resorting to TV Trope's YKTS board, but is there an SE location to ask such questions? | 2014/06/27 | [
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4772",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/users/23243/"
] | Unfortunately not. There isn't a place to ask such questions (yet).
There is a [Literature Proposal](http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/80865/literature) on Area 51 that would suit your needs, but it is still on the Definition stage.
You can always ask around our chat. Someone might be able to help you. | In the 'Book Search' sub-forum of SFF Chronicles they accept occasional non genre book ID questions.
Provided the same person doesn't keep banging non SF&F questions in there day after day after day and thus alienating dedicated SF&F fans. |
4,772 | Unfortunately, this is likely an off-topic question, but one which is about said off-topicness. Occasionally, when browsing through [story-identification](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/story-identification "show questions tagged 'story-identification'") items, one comes upon a request for a story that is non-sci-fi with people suggesting going to the [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com) to ask. That section of the site was closed in 2012. So far, I've been resorting to TV Trope's YKTS board, but is there an SE location to ask such questions? | 2014/06/27 | [
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4772",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/users/23243/"
] | Unfortunately not. There isn't a place to ask such questions (yet).
There is a [Literature Proposal](http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/80865/literature) on Area 51 that would suit your needs, but it is still on the Definition stage.
You can always ask around our chat. Someone might be able to help you. | [The English Wikipedia reference desk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk) does take well-written identification questions, and can sometimes answer them. [Here's an example question I asked, for which a user found the answer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2011_July_7#Find_a_fiction_book:_pilot's_girlfriend_must_land_small_airplane_when_pilot_falls_unconscious) (*Talk Down* by Brian Lecomber (1978)). Ask book identification questions [at the humanities desk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities), movie or TV series or video game identification questions [at the entertainment desk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Entertainment). Don't ask the same question at multiple desks. |
4,772 | Unfortunately, this is likely an off-topic question, but one which is about said off-topicness. Occasionally, when browsing through [story-identification](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/story-identification "show questions tagged 'story-identification'") items, one comes upon a request for a story that is non-sci-fi with people suggesting going to the [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com) to ask. That section of the site was closed in 2012. So far, I've been resorting to TV Trope's YKTS board, but is there an SE location to ask such questions? | 2014/06/27 | [
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4772",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/users/23243/"
] | There are actually quite a few sites that allow some type of identification question:
* [Literature](https://literature.stackexchange.com): [Literature ID questions](https://literature.meta.stackexchange.com/q/1/5747) are on-topic. You can ask about more than books: comics, manga, graphic novels, short stories, and poems are on-topic. (To clarify, this site was launched in 2017, long after the old Literature site closed in 2012.)
* [Arqade](https://gaming.stackexchange.com/): [Game ID questions are on-topic](https://gaming.meta.stackexchange.com/a/10198/153006) if a screenshot, audio file or other "artifact" of the game is included. Otherwise, they have this [short list of external sites](https://gaming.meta.stackexchange.com/a/7618/153006) which may help you find games.
* [Retrocomputing](https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com): [Game ID questions](https://retrocomputing.meta.stackexchange.com/q/176/462) for [retro](https://retrocomputing.meta.stackexchange.com/q/2/462) games are on-topic.
* [Anime & Manga](https://anime.stackexchange.com/): Questions asking for the identification of anime or manga [are now **off**-topic](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/q/2805) (but there is [this answer](https://anime.stackexchange.com/a/4697/41946) to help in your search). Questions about identifying characters, episodes, or similar from a known series are [on-topic](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/a/4190), as are questions on identifying cosplay and merchandise when [there's a good reason to believe it's from an anime/manga](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4142). (But it looks like no more [music id](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4491/50617).)
* [RPG](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/): The tag [product-identification](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/product-identification) is appropriate for most id questions, unless you're asking to identify something within a known game and then you want to use the [content-identification tag](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/content-identification). In any case, as long as you're asking for the identification of a tabletop RPG (not a video game), it's likely on topic.
* [Board & Card Games](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/): This site accepts [identification questions](https://boardgames.meta.stackexchange.com/q/195) for anything matching the title of the site, using the [identify-this-game tag](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/identify-this-game). For [identification of foreign Magic: The Gathering cards](https://boardgames.meta.stackexchange.com/q/1185), there's a post with [guidance on how to find the answer yourself](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/q/18820).
And it's also worth mentioning:
* Movies & TV: ID questions of any type are now [**off**-topic](https://movies.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4087/70064). They do have a [list of external sites](https://movies.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4129/70064) that could help though.
* [Music Fans](https://musicfans.stackexchange.com/): After many years of lukewarmly supporting them, [no ID questions](https://musicfans.meta.stackexchange.com/q/733). | For books? ~~Nothing on Stack Exchange.~~ There is now a [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com/) which accepts (well-worded and detailed) identification requests.
~~For movies? There's [Movies & TV](http://movies.stackexchange.com).~~
~~For TV? There's [Movies & TV](http://movies.stackexchange.com).~~
~~For anime? There's [Anime&Manga.SE](http://anime.stackexchange.com).~~ - they have now [completely banned](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/a/2806/28456) story-ID requests.
For video games? Nothing on Stack Exchange. There's [Arqade](http://gaming.stackexchange.com), but only in the very specific case when [you have an “artifact”](https://gaming.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/7617/how-best-to-ask-about-a-game-identification/7621#7621) (e.g. a screenshot).
Be sure to take the tour on each site to see the constraints they have on Story Identification questions, each of them has different expectations. |
4,772 | Unfortunately, this is likely an off-topic question, but one which is about said off-topicness. Occasionally, when browsing through [story-identification](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/story-identification "show questions tagged 'story-identification'") items, one comes upon a request for a story that is non-sci-fi with people suggesting going to the [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com) to ask. That section of the site was closed in 2012. So far, I've been resorting to TV Trope's YKTS board, but is there an SE location to ask such questions? | 2014/06/27 | [
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4772",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/users/23243/"
] | For books? ~~Nothing on Stack Exchange.~~ There is now a [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com/) which accepts (well-worded and detailed) identification requests.
~~For movies? There's [Movies & TV](http://movies.stackexchange.com).~~
~~For TV? There's [Movies & TV](http://movies.stackexchange.com).~~
~~For anime? There's [Anime&Manga.SE](http://anime.stackexchange.com).~~ - they have now [completely banned](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/a/2806/28456) story-ID requests.
For video games? Nothing on Stack Exchange. There's [Arqade](http://gaming.stackexchange.com), but only in the very specific case when [you have an “artifact”](https://gaming.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/7617/how-best-to-ask-about-a-game-identification/7621#7621) (e.g. a screenshot).
Be sure to take the tour on each site to see the constraints they have on Story Identification questions, each of them has different expectations. | In the 'Book Search' sub-forum of SFF Chronicles they accept occasional non genre book ID questions.
Provided the same person doesn't keep banging non SF&F questions in there day after day after day and thus alienating dedicated SF&F fans. |
4,772 | Unfortunately, this is likely an off-topic question, but one which is about said off-topicness. Occasionally, when browsing through [story-identification](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/story-identification "show questions tagged 'story-identification'") items, one comes upon a request for a story that is non-sci-fi with people suggesting going to the [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com) to ask. That section of the site was closed in 2012. So far, I've been resorting to TV Trope's YKTS board, but is there an SE location to ask such questions? | 2014/06/27 | [
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4772",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/users/23243/"
] | For books? ~~Nothing on Stack Exchange.~~ There is now a [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com/) which accepts (well-worded and detailed) identification requests.
~~For movies? There's [Movies & TV](http://movies.stackexchange.com).~~
~~For TV? There's [Movies & TV](http://movies.stackexchange.com).~~
~~For anime? There's [Anime&Manga.SE](http://anime.stackexchange.com).~~ - they have now [completely banned](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/a/2806/28456) story-ID requests.
For video games? Nothing on Stack Exchange. There's [Arqade](http://gaming.stackexchange.com), but only in the very specific case when [you have an “artifact”](https://gaming.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/7617/how-best-to-ask-about-a-game-identification/7621#7621) (e.g. a screenshot).
Be sure to take the tour on each site to see the constraints they have on Story Identification questions, each of them has different expectations. | [The English Wikipedia reference desk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk) does take well-written identification questions, and can sometimes answer them. [Here's an example question I asked, for which a user found the answer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2011_July_7#Find_a_fiction_book:_pilot's_girlfriend_must_land_small_airplane_when_pilot_falls_unconscious) (*Talk Down* by Brian Lecomber (1978)). Ask book identification questions [at the humanities desk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities), movie or TV series or video game identification questions [at the entertainment desk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Entertainment). Don't ask the same question at multiple desks. |
4,772 | Unfortunately, this is likely an off-topic question, but one which is about said off-topicness. Occasionally, when browsing through [story-identification](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/story-identification "show questions tagged 'story-identification'") items, one comes upon a request for a story that is non-sci-fi with people suggesting going to the [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com) to ask. That section of the site was closed in 2012. So far, I've been resorting to TV Trope's YKTS board, but is there an SE location to ask such questions? | 2014/06/27 | [
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4772",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/users/23243/"
] | There are actually quite a few sites that allow some type of identification question:
* [Literature](https://literature.stackexchange.com): [Literature ID questions](https://literature.meta.stackexchange.com/q/1/5747) are on-topic. You can ask about more than books: comics, manga, graphic novels, short stories, and poems are on-topic. (To clarify, this site was launched in 2017, long after the old Literature site closed in 2012.)
* [Arqade](https://gaming.stackexchange.com/): [Game ID questions are on-topic](https://gaming.meta.stackexchange.com/a/10198/153006) if a screenshot, audio file or other "artifact" of the game is included. Otherwise, they have this [short list of external sites](https://gaming.meta.stackexchange.com/a/7618/153006) which may help you find games.
* [Retrocomputing](https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com): [Game ID questions](https://retrocomputing.meta.stackexchange.com/q/176/462) for [retro](https://retrocomputing.meta.stackexchange.com/q/2/462) games are on-topic.
* [Anime & Manga](https://anime.stackexchange.com/): Questions asking for the identification of anime or manga [are now **off**-topic](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/q/2805) (but there is [this answer](https://anime.stackexchange.com/a/4697/41946) to help in your search). Questions about identifying characters, episodes, or similar from a known series are [on-topic](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/a/4190), as are questions on identifying cosplay and merchandise when [there's a good reason to believe it's from an anime/manga](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4142). (But it looks like no more [music id](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4491/50617).)
* [RPG](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/): The tag [product-identification](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/product-identification) is appropriate for most id questions, unless you're asking to identify something within a known game and then you want to use the [content-identification tag](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/content-identification). In any case, as long as you're asking for the identification of a tabletop RPG (not a video game), it's likely on topic.
* [Board & Card Games](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/): This site accepts [identification questions](https://boardgames.meta.stackexchange.com/q/195) for anything matching the title of the site, using the [identify-this-game tag](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/identify-this-game). For [identification of foreign Magic: The Gathering cards](https://boardgames.meta.stackexchange.com/q/1185), there's a post with [guidance on how to find the answer yourself](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/q/18820).
And it's also worth mentioning:
* Movies & TV: ID questions of any type are now [**off**-topic](https://movies.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4087/70064). They do have a [list of external sites](https://movies.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4129/70064) that could help though.
* [Music Fans](https://musicfans.stackexchange.com/): After many years of lukewarmly supporting them, [no ID questions](https://musicfans.meta.stackexchange.com/q/733). | In the 'Book Search' sub-forum of SFF Chronicles they accept occasional non genre book ID questions.
Provided the same person doesn't keep banging non SF&F questions in there day after day after day and thus alienating dedicated SF&F fans. |
4,772 | Unfortunately, this is likely an off-topic question, but one which is about said off-topicness. Occasionally, when browsing through [story-identification](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/story-identification "show questions tagged 'story-identification'") items, one comes upon a request for a story that is non-sci-fi with people suggesting going to the [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com) to ask. That section of the site was closed in 2012. So far, I've been resorting to TV Trope's YKTS board, but is there an SE location to ask such questions? | 2014/06/27 | [
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4772",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/users/23243/"
] | There are actually quite a few sites that allow some type of identification question:
* [Literature](https://literature.stackexchange.com): [Literature ID questions](https://literature.meta.stackexchange.com/q/1/5747) are on-topic. You can ask about more than books: comics, manga, graphic novels, short stories, and poems are on-topic. (To clarify, this site was launched in 2017, long after the old Literature site closed in 2012.)
* [Arqade](https://gaming.stackexchange.com/): [Game ID questions are on-topic](https://gaming.meta.stackexchange.com/a/10198/153006) if a screenshot, audio file or other "artifact" of the game is included. Otherwise, they have this [short list of external sites](https://gaming.meta.stackexchange.com/a/7618/153006) which may help you find games.
* [Retrocomputing](https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com): [Game ID questions](https://retrocomputing.meta.stackexchange.com/q/176/462) for [retro](https://retrocomputing.meta.stackexchange.com/q/2/462) games are on-topic.
* [Anime & Manga](https://anime.stackexchange.com/): Questions asking for the identification of anime or manga [are now **off**-topic](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/q/2805) (but there is [this answer](https://anime.stackexchange.com/a/4697/41946) to help in your search). Questions about identifying characters, episodes, or similar from a known series are [on-topic](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/a/4190), as are questions on identifying cosplay and merchandise when [there's a good reason to believe it's from an anime/manga](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4142). (But it looks like no more [music id](https://anime.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4491/50617).)
* [RPG](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/): The tag [product-identification](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/product-identification) is appropriate for most id questions, unless you're asking to identify something within a known game and then you want to use the [content-identification tag](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/content-identification). In any case, as long as you're asking for the identification of a tabletop RPG (not a video game), it's likely on topic.
* [Board & Card Games](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/): This site accepts [identification questions](https://boardgames.meta.stackexchange.com/q/195) for anything matching the title of the site, using the [identify-this-game tag](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/identify-this-game). For [identification of foreign Magic: The Gathering cards](https://boardgames.meta.stackexchange.com/q/1185), there's a post with [guidance on how to find the answer yourself](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/q/18820).
And it's also worth mentioning:
* Movies & TV: ID questions of any type are now [**off**-topic](https://movies.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4087/70064). They do have a [list of external sites](https://movies.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4129/70064) that could help though.
* [Music Fans](https://musicfans.stackexchange.com/): After many years of lukewarmly supporting them, [no ID questions](https://musicfans.meta.stackexchange.com/q/733). | [The English Wikipedia reference desk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk) does take well-written identification questions, and can sometimes answer them. [Here's an example question I asked, for which a user found the answer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2011_July_7#Find_a_fiction_book:_pilot's_girlfriend_must_land_small_airplane_when_pilot_falls_unconscious) (*Talk Down* by Brian Lecomber (1978)). Ask book identification questions [at the humanities desk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities), movie or TV series or video game identification questions [at the entertainment desk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Entertainment). Don't ask the same question at multiple desks. |
4,772 | Unfortunately, this is likely an off-topic question, but one which is about said off-topicness. Occasionally, when browsing through [story-identification](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/story-identification "show questions tagged 'story-identification'") items, one comes upon a request for a story that is non-sci-fi with people suggesting going to the [Literature Stack Exchange](https://literature.stackexchange.com) to ask. That section of the site was closed in 2012. So far, I've been resorting to TV Trope's YKTS board, but is there an SE location to ask such questions? | 2014/06/27 | [
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4772",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/users/23243/"
] | [The English Wikipedia reference desk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk) does take well-written identification questions, and can sometimes answer them. [Here's an example question I asked, for which a user found the answer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2011_July_7#Find_a_fiction_book:_pilot's_girlfriend_must_land_small_airplane_when_pilot_falls_unconscious) (*Talk Down* by Brian Lecomber (1978)). Ask book identification questions [at the humanities desk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities), movie or TV series or video game identification questions [at the entertainment desk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Entertainment). Don't ask the same question at multiple desks. | In the 'Book Search' sub-forum of SFF Chronicles they accept occasional non genre book ID questions.
Provided the same person doesn't keep banging non SF&F questions in there day after day after day and thus alienating dedicated SF&F fans. |
17,181,678 | I have some mappings, where business entities are being populated after transformation logic. The row volumes are on the higher side, and there are quite a few business attributes which are defaulted to certain static values.
Therefore, in order to reduce the data pushed from mapping, i created "default" clause on the target table, and stopped feeding them from the mapping itself. Now, this works out just fine when I am running the session in "Normal" mode. This effectively gives me target table rows, with some columns being fed by the mapping, and the rest taking values based on the "default" clause on the table DDL.
However, since we are dealing with higher end of volumes, I want to run my session in bulk mode (there are no pre-existing indexes on the target tables).
As soon as I switch the session to bulk mode, this particular feature, (of default values) stops working. As a result of this, I get NULL values in the target columns, instead of defined "default" values.
I wonder -
1. Is this expected behavior ?
2. If not, am I missing out on some configuration somewhere ?
3. Should I be making a ticket to Oracle ? or Informatica ?
my configuration -
Informatica 9.5.1 64 bit,
with
Oracle 11g r2 (11.2.0.3)
running on
Solaris (SunOS 5.10)
Looking forward to help here... | 2013/06/19 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/17181678",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/459222/"
] | Could be expected behavior.
Seem that bulk mode in Informatica use "Direct Path" API in Oracle (see for example <https://community.informatica.com/thread/23522> )
From this document ( <http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B10500_01/server.920/a96652/ch09.htm> , search Field "Defaults on the Direct Path") I gather that:
>
> Default column specifications defined in the database are not
> available when you use direct path loading. Fields for which default
> values are desired must be specified with the DEFAULTIF clause. If a
> DEFAULTIF clause is not specified and the field is NULL, then a null
> value is inserted into the database.
>
>
>
This could be the reason of this behaviour. | I don't believe that you'll see a great benefit from not including the defaults, particularly in comparison to the benefits of a direct path load. If the data is going to be readonly then consider compression also.
You should also note that SQL\*Net features compression for same values in the same column, so even in conventional path inserts the network overhead is not as high as you might think. |
225,848 | I wanted to attach a EC2 volume to multiple EC2 instance and create a common directory for all my scripts. I was not able to do this.
Is it possible to mount some shared storage between all my EC2 instances to keep common files like scripts? Can I use S3? | 2011/01/23 | [
"https://serverfault.com/questions/225848",
"https://serverfault.com",
"https://serverfault.com/users/67917/"
] | You could use S3 for this, or you could have a single instance will all the files in, and then push (rsync for example) these files to the locations you want them- you would only have 1 set of files to keep up-to-date then. | You can use an [nfs share](http://www.migrate2cloud.com/blog/how-to-setup-nfs-server-on-aws-ec2) on an instance. |
16,378 | Background
==========
I'm in a happily monogamous relationship. I also am friends with someone I used to date. My friend and I generally void the subject of dating/romance now because it can be a sore subject that stirs up feelings. I hope in time that this restriction will ease up as we adjust to just being friends.
I don't know if my friend is aware of my relationship status. Several months ago I mentioned I was seeing someone but it was only a couple sentences. Similarly, she's only mentioned once having gone on some dates after us.
The situation and goals
=======================
Recently she proposed about going out hiking and possibly camping. I'd like to go and my girlfriend is fine with it too. I would however like to avoid a few things:
1. I don't want to cheat on my girlfriend.
2. I don't really want to rub my relationship in my friend's face. If mentioned at all it should be done delicately and not at length.
3. I don't want to reject my friend if she makes any advances, in order to avoid hurting her feelings or thinking it's anything to do with her at all.
4. I don't want to imply my friend wants to resume a romantic or sexual relationship as I have no reason to suspect this is more than moderately likely.
To me, this suggests that I need to indicate that I'm not available in some gentle fashion, either preemptively or if an advance is made. I'm not sure which approach is better or how to best do either.
I am open to using the (true) angle that I value our friendship so much that I'd rather not risk it with a fling. But that is probably best used reactively so as not to come across as presumptuous and still leaves open the objection that a serious relationship would be a viable option (which I think it would be, were I single).
To clarify my feelings about a relationship with her in response to answers and comments, I simply mean that I like her far too much as a person to risk the friendship for a casual romance and, hypothetically, would only consider her for friendship or a serious romantic relationship that aimed to be lifelong. For practical reasons, I don't think a lifelong romance is possible here and I don't harbor any hopes of changing that.
The question
============
In the context of camping together, how do I let her know that I'm romantically unavailable without causing upset?
---
I'm open to frame challenges that don't involve me avoiding my friend. | 2018/07/11 | [
"https://interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/16378",
"https://interpersonal.stackexchange.com",
"https://interpersonal.stackexchange.com/users/12540/"
] | Ya... I'm going to have to challenge the premise here, sorry about that...
This is what I usually call ["back-burnering"](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=back%20burnered) and it's not really a great thing to do. You have your new relationship that's on the front burner, it's sizzling hot and you're mixing it up, but you're keeping this other thing slowly simmering on the back burner for later.
The reason I say that it isn't a great thing to do, is because it's not an entirely honest thing to do.
You admit in your post that the only reason you're not open to a relationship with the friend/ex is the new relationship:
>
> ... a serious relationship would be a viable option (which I think it would be, were I single).
>
>
>
How would your new partner feel about that? If you were really completely happy and satisfied you probably wouldn't be entertaining that idea right?
It's also not really being honest with the friend/ex. You're trying to manage their feelings for you. This may not be as bad as it sounds, you could really just be trying to spare their feelings, or you could be trying to maintain the image of being date-able at a future date which is less noble when you're omitting facts to do it.
It also looks like you may not be being entirely honest with yourself about what you really want or expect out of these relationships. Keeping someone on the back burner is usually a strong sign that you still have feelings for them and/or that you have doubts about your current relationship.
So... Why am I saying what I'm saying? Because at different points I've been in all three positions and it usually ended badly for everyone involved. The truth nearly always comes out eventually; hearts get broken, people are disappointed, and nobody gets what they really wanted. Nobody likes to be on the back burner, few people like it when their partner has feelings for someone else, and if you play the game too long you may find that they both move on without you.
If you really want to give your new relationship an honest chance, let the ex go. You can be friends, but friends are honest with each other about their relationships. If you want to pursue something with the ex, break it off with the new girlfriend first.
**Technicalities rarely matter when it comes to love, and emotional infidelities can hurt as much if not more than sexual infidelities.** | Casually mention your new partner in the course of conversation, maybe more than once. Your new relationship never has to be the focus of conversation. The assumption is that your ex will be respectful of your new relationship and will thus not 'try anything'.
Maybe during camping trip planning you can talk about needing to borrow a piece of gear from your new partner. (This could be a [white lie](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/white%20lie), but its easier if its the truth)
>
> I don't have a second water bottle, but my partner might, I'll ask them if I can borrow it
>
>
>
There is no focus of conversation on your new relationship, but you have still conveyed the fact that you have a partner.
---
There are a lot of other questions with very similar premises to yours on IPS already. This is the go to answer to gently and indirectly rejecting/preventing unwanted romantic attention. |
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