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73,767 | I am trying to dual boot nt4 and windows 98 se (don't laugh - old computer).
I have seen Microsoft's instructions for doing this, but it limits windows 98 to have a Fat16 partition (NT4's NTLDR doesn't understand FAT32) and therefore only 2GB of disk space. I really need it to have more than that.
I started with Win 98 (on the 1st partition), repartitioned the disk, then added NT4 on the 2nd partition. NT4 took over the bootloader (as expected), so NT4 boots, but Win 98 doesn't. Right now I am working in VMWare so I can use nonpersistent hard drives (IDE like the real computer) to recover from errors easily.
I've tried using XPs NTLDR using the instructions here: <http://www.nu2.nu/fixnt4/> , but I got weird errors from NT4 and it never really worked. If XP's NTLDR would work, that should be able to boot both OSes.
I've also tried using GRUB. In theory that should work. In fact when booting from super grub disk, it does. But as soon as I install grub to disk, Win 98 boots, but NT 4 blue screens at boot with a 0x0000007b inaccessible\_boot\_device error (that can be alot of things see MS kb 822051). The incantation I'm using for GRUB 1 is
>
> rootnoverify (hd0,1)
>
>
> makeactive
>
>
> chainloader +1
>
>
> boot
>
>
>
So, anybody have some suggestions? | 2009/11/22 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/73767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/18895/"
] | I have a machine with Windows 98, NT and XP (the NT installation is quite obsolete and not really required any more, I just never got rid of it), using **[BootStar](http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Boot-Manager-Disk/Bootstar.shtml)**, a third party boot manager.
**[BootIt NG](http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm)** will do the job as well.
 | Windows NT 4 does not like anything other than FAT16 and NTFS, so you're not going to get what you want out of this, unless you go Windows 2000 instead of NT 4 (if that 2GB barrier is really a problem).
EDIT: If you're using VMWare, why do you want the two OSes to share a single drive anyway? That makes little sense to me.
ADDITIONAL EDIT:
Create a boot partition with 2GB and FAT16. Create a second partition for Windows 98 and FAT32. Create a third partition for Windows NT 4 and NTFS.
Install Windows 98 into the D: drive (i.e. FAT32 partition), and NTFS into the third partition (which it will probably call D: as well, but should call E:).
You'll need a big C: drive because some installers are stupid and like putting rubbish on the C: drive, regardless of where Windows is. Case in point is Visual Studio 6. |
73,767 | I am trying to dual boot nt4 and windows 98 se (don't laugh - old computer).
I have seen Microsoft's instructions for doing this, but it limits windows 98 to have a Fat16 partition (NT4's NTLDR doesn't understand FAT32) and therefore only 2GB of disk space. I really need it to have more than that.
I started with Win 98 (on the 1st partition), repartitioned the disk, then added NT4 on the 2nd partition. NT4 took over the bootloader (as expected), so NT4 boots, but Win 98 doesn't. Right now I am working in VMWare so I can use nonpersistent hard drives (IDE like the real computer) to recover from errors easily.
I've tried using XPs NTLDR using the instructions here: <http://www.nu2.nu/fixnt4/> , but I got weird errors from NT4 and it never really worked. If XP's NTLDR would work, that should be able to boot both OSes.
I've also tried using GRUB. In theory that should work. In fact when booting from super grub disk, it does. But as soon as I install grub to disk, Win 98 boots, but NT 4 blue screens at boot with a 0x0000007b inaccessible\_boot\_device error (that can be alot of things see MS kb 822051). The incantation I'm using for GRUB 1 is
>
> rootnoverify (hd0,1)
>
>
> makeactive
>
>
> chainloader +1
>
>
> boot
>
>
>
So, anybody have some suggestions? | 2009/11/22 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/73767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/18895/"
] | "System Commander" was a multi-boot solution for windows that worked pretty well for me back a few years. You can get a copy of an older version on Amazon for $1.00 (as of 30 seconds ago). | Windows NT 4 does not like anything other than FAT16 and NTFS, so you're not going to get what you want out of this, unless you go Windows 2000 instead of NT 4 (if that 2GB barrier is really a problem).
EDIT: If you're using VMWare, why do you want the two OSes to share a single drive anyway? That makes little sense to me.
ADDITIONAL EDIT:
Create a boot partition with 2GB and FAT16. Create a second partition for Windows 98 and FAT32. Create a third partition for Windows NT 4 and NTFS.
Install Windows 98 into the D: drive (i.e. FAT32 partition), and NTFS into the third partition (which it will probably call D: as well, but should call E:).
You'll need a big C: drive because some installers are stupid and like putting rubbish on the C: drive, regardless of where Windows is. Case in point is Visual Studio 6. |
73,767 | I am trying to dual boot nt4 and windows 98 se (don't laugh - old computer).
I have seen Microsoft's instructions for doing this, but it limits windows 98 to have a Fat16 partition (NT4's NTLDR doesn't understand FAT32) and therefore only 2GB of disk space. I really need it to have more than that.
I started with Win 98 (on the 1st partition), repartitioned the disk, then added NT4 on the 2nd partition. NT4 took over the bootloader (as expected), so NT4 boots, but Win 98 doesn't. Right now I am working in VMWare so I can use nonpersistent hard drives (IDE like the real computer) to recover from errors easily.
I've tried using XPs NTLDR using the instructions here: <http://www.nu2.nu/fixnt4/> , but I got weird errors from NT4 and it never really worked. If XP's NTLDR would work, that should be able to boot both OSes.
I've also tried using GRUB. In theory that should work. In fact when booting from super grub disk, it does. But as soon as I install grub to disk, Win 98 boots, but NT 4 blue screens at boot with a 0x0000007b inaccessible\_boot\_device error (that can be alot of things see MS kb 822051). The incantation I'm using for GRUB 1 is
>
> rootnoverify (hd0,1)
>
>
> makeactive
>
>
> chainloader +1
>
>
> boot
>
>
>
So, anybody have some suggestions? | 2009/11/22 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/73767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/18895/"
] | I have a machine with Windows 98, NT and XP (the NT installation is quite obsolete and not really required any more, I just never got rid of it), using **[BootStar](http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Boot-Manager-Disk/Bootstar.shtml)**, a third party boot manager.
**[BootIt NG](http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm)** will do the job as well.
 | If your PC will hold one, I suggest installing another hard drive, and install one OS per drive. Keep only one drive connected at a time, so that each installs to its' "C: drive".
To boot, you should be able to press a key at start up to get the boot menu, allowing you to boot whichever drive is not your default. Usually it's the escape key, but it could be a function key, too. |
73,767 | I am trying to dual boot nt4 and windows 98 se (don't laugh - old computer).
I have seen Microsoft's instructions for doing this, but it limits windows 98 to have a Fat16 partition (NT4's NTLDR doesn't understand FAT32) and therefore only 2GB of disk space. I really need it to have more than that.
I started with Win 98 (on the 1st partition), repartitioned the disk, then added NT4 on the 2nd partition. NT4 took over the bootloader (as expected), so NT4 boots, but Win 98 doesn't. Right now I am working in VMWare so I can use nonpersistent hard drives (IDE like the real computer) to recover from errors easily.
I've tried using XPs NTLDR using the instructions here: <http://www.nu2.nu/fixnt4/> , but I got weird errors from NT4 and it never really worked. If XP's NTLDR would work, that should be able to boot both OSes.
I've also tried using GRUB. In theory that should work. In fact when booting from super grub disk, it does. But as soon as I install grub to disk, Win 98 boots, but NT 4 blue screens at boot with a 0x0000007b inaccessible\_boot\_device error (that can be alot of things see MS kb 822051). The incantation I'm using for GRUB 1 is
>
> rootnoverify (hd0,1)
>
>
> makeactive
>
>
> chainloader +1
>
>
> boot
>
>
>
So, anybody have some suggestions? | 2009/11/22 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/73767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/18895/"
] | "System Commander" was a multi-boot solution for windows that worked pretty well for me back a few years. You can get a copy of an older version on Amazon for $1.00 (as of 30 seconds ago). | If your PC will hold one, I suggest installing another hard drive, and install one OS per drive. Keep only one drive connected at a time, so that each installs to its' "C: drive".
To boot, you should be able to press a key at start up to get the boot menu, allowing you to boot whichever drive is not your default. Usually it's the escape key, but it could be a function key, too. |
132,670 | Software, unlike most physical products you can buy, is sold with as few warranties as the vendor can get away with. As a developer, this seems very reasonable considering the quality of almost all software I've ever used - Think anything from unintuitive idioms, via undocumented features, irreproducibility, missing handling of concurrency, double escaping of user input, and floating point numbers where decimals would avoid long-term build-up of errors, to plain crashing bugs where the production database is corrupted and the equivalent of several hirings in the affected company are wasted on recovery and reactionary implementation of safety measures. It's a bit like building skyscrapers out of straw and nitroglycerin, hoping it will survive until the time when it's someone else's problem or it's replaced entirely.
In such a situation, I hypothesize that a company which trusts their software enough to provide even minor warranties for damages incurred would (if their software was up to the task) gain an enormous advantage in *user trust*, and could put Google, Microsoft and Apple to shame for quality software and hoarding of money and talent.
I'm not familiar with the current status of software verification and requirements gathering research, so I don't know whether this possibility is just around the corner or whether we are hacking at the mountain with toothpicks. Certainly the existence of any serious company or organization at all providing such warranties or even working on guidelines for warranties would be extremely interesting to follow, as both a developer and user.
Therefore: Are there any **international guidelines** for providing software warranties?
Examples:
* If all the tests succeed, as long as the system stays in a defined state, the warranty covers the cost of recovery in case of data loss.
* As long as [some widely recognized set of security guidelines] are followed, the data handled by the system will not be readable by third parties. The warranty could cover anything from the price of the software to the legal costs of handling privacy-related lawsuits or more. | 2012/01/31 | [
"https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/132670",
"https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com",
"https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/users/13162/"
] | You Have 2 basic kinds of software :
1) Off the Shelf, prepackage stuff - Usually The warranty for this covers only the cost of the software itself. It’s very similar to any other warranty. You buy it, it doesn't work, they will get it to work or refund your money. (Assuming they believe you.. you take MS office back to the store opened saying it won’t install, you will likely get "Sorry we don't take back open software" as a response)
2) Custom Software: This is basically the same as packaged software EXCEPT the duration of the Warranty is for a negotiated period of time (usually 3-6 month, or a outlined in a long term support contract), Any defect after that is outside the Warranty even if it’s clearly a defect. So it’s really up to the purchaser to do his diligence in testing during the "Acceptance Phase"
**NOBODY COVERS THE COST OF DATA LOSS**
It would be insane to. I sell you Inventory-tracker 2.6 for 50$, a Glitch causes you to "Loose" 100k in inventory. Should I be libel for that 100k? If yes, no one would sell software, it’s not worth the risk. Again.. it’s up to the purchases to do his diligence to insure the software is working as *expected* (Note the word *Expected*.. I did not say *Designed*.)
---
The customer has to backup his data. This is his protection against data loss. | Regarding data loss: I took a look at some online backup systems. Here is one example:
>
> entire liability, and Your exclusive remedy, for any and all claims arising under or in connection with this Agreement or related to any item or service provided under or in connection with this Agreement, regardless of the form of the action (including negligence), whether in breach of warranty, contract, tort, strict liability or otherwise, shall be limited to a maximum amount equal to the license and maintenance fees paid within the last six (6) month period prior to such loss. You expressly recognize and acknowledge that such limitation of liability is an essential part of this Agreement and is an essential factor in establishing the price of the Licensed Products. You shall cause your insurers of data, if any, to waive any right of subrogation against...
>
>
>
You have to limit what you will cover and what you will refund. Remember companies such as LL Bean and Lands End only refund the cost of the boots, and ignore the fact the hike wasn't fun in boots falling apart. |
132,670 | Software, unlike most physical products you can buy, is sold with as few warranties as the vendor can get away with. As a developer, this seems very reasonable considering the quality of almost all software I've ever used - Think anything from unintuitive idioms, via undocumented features, irreproducibility, missing handling of concurrency, double escaping of user input, and floating point numbers where decimals would avoid long-term build-up of errors, to plain crashing bugs where the production database is corrupted and the equivalent of several hirings in the affected company are wasted on recovery and reactionary implementation of safety measures. It's a bit like building skyscrapers out of straw and nitroglycerin, hoping it will survive until the time when it's someone else's problem or it's replaced entirely.
In such a situation, I hypothesize that a company which trusts their software enough to provide even minor warranties for damages incurred would (if their software was up to the task) gain an enormous advantage in *user trust*, and could put Google, Microsoft and Apple to shame for quality software and hoarding of money and talent.
I'm not familiar with the current status of software verification and requirements gathering research, so I don't know whether this possibility is just around the corner or whether we are hacking at the mountain with toothpicks. Certainly the existence of any serious company or organization at all providing such warranties or even working on guidelines for warranties would be extremely interesting to follow, as both a developer and user.
Therefore: Are there any **international guidelines** for providing software warranties?
Examples:
* If all the tests succeed, as long as the system stays in a defined state, the warranty covers the cost of recovery in case of data loss.
* As long as [some widely recognized set of security guidelines] are followed, the data handled by the system will not be readable by third parties. The warranty could cover anything from the price of the software to the legal costs of handling privacy-related lawsuits or more. | 2012/01/31 | [
"https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/132670",
"https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com",
"https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/users/13162/"
] | I don't know a lot about this but I know that, for custom software (not off-the-shelf), many development teams require the client to use specific hardware in order for the warranty to be valid. You can look into that if you think it's reasonable for your particular case.
Also, sometimes warranties and performance guarantees are invalidated if the software is used with any product not provided or approved by the company who made that software.
I think the variety of situations when it comes to something like this is huge. It all comes down to how you draft the contract. | Regarding data loss: I took a look at some online backup systems. Here is one example:
>
> entire liability, and Your exclusive remedy, for any and all claims arising under or in connection with this Agreement or related to any item or service provided under or in connection with this Agreement, regardless of the form of the action (including negligence), whether in breach of warranty, contract, tort, strict liability or otherwise, shall be limited to a maximum amount equal to the license and maintenance fees paid within the last six (6) month period prior to such loss. You expressly recognize and acknowledge that such limitation of liability is an essential part of this Agreement and is an essential factor in establishing the price of the Licensed Products. You shall cause your insurers of data, if any, to waive any right of subrogation against...
>
>
>
You have to limit what you will cover and what you will refund. Remember companies such as LL Bean and Lands End only refund the cost of the boots, and ignore the fact the hike wasn't fun in boots falling apart. |
122,987 | I need a word to describe a review that has been made on a review.
The review itself I will call a "review", but if someone reviews the reviews, what can I call this? I can't call it a review as well as that would be confusing.
I need a short understandable word for it. Any ideas? | 2013/08/17 | [
"https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/122987",
"https://english.stackexchange.com",
"https://english.stackexchange.com/users/45309/"
] | A review of a review is still just a *review*.
You might risk calling it a *meta-review*, but understand that you would thereby put yourself at some small risk of being misunderstood. | Try to write it so that it is clear at any time which review is being referred to, and/or introduce your own terminology, e.g.:
1. for the original review:
a. original review
b. source review
c. 'review being reviewed'
d. Fred Smith's review (where *Fred Smith* is replaced by the original reviewer's name)
2. for your review:
a. second review
b. 'review-of-review'
c. my review (where *my* refers to you)
You need to be inventive here. |
122,987 | I need a word to describe a review that has been made on a review.
The review itself I will call a "review", but if someone reviews the reviews, what can I call this? I can't call it a review as well as that would be confusing.
I need a short understandable word for it. Any ideas? | 2013/08/17 | [
"https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/122987",
"https://english.stackexchange.com",
"https://english.stackexchange.com/users/45309/"
] | A review of a review is still just a *review*.
You might risk calling it a *meta-review*, but understand that you would thereby put yourself at some small risk of being misunderstood. | You might use terms like *[survey](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/survey#Noun)*, *[overview](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/overview#Noun)*, *[composite](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/composite#Noun)*, and *[compilation](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/compilation#Noun)*, if the idea is that the meta-review will be combining information from other reviews. If, on the other hand, the meta-review is intended to assess the quality of an earlier review, call it a *[reevaluation](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reevaluation#Noun)* (“A second or subsequent evaluation or rating”) or *[reassessment](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reassessment)* (“a second or subsequent assessment”).
Also see terminology mentioned in cochrane-net's [Combining studies](http://www.cochrane-net.org/openlearning/html/mod12-2.htm) webpage, and in wikipedia's [Meta analysis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-analysis) article. |
122,987 | I need a word to describe a review that has been made on a review.
The review itself I will call a "review", but if someone reviews the reviews, what can I call this? I can't call it a review as well as that would be confusing.
I need a short understandable word for it. Any ideas? | 2013/08/17 | [
"https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/122987",
"https://english.stackexchange.com",
"https://english.stackexchange.com/users/45309/"
] | You might use terms like *[survey](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/survey#Noun)*, *[overview](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/overview#Noun)*, *[composite](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/composite#Noun)*, and *[compilation](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/compilation#Noun)*, if the idea is that the meta-review will be combining information from other reviews. If, on the other hand, the meta-review is intended to assess the quality of an earlier review, call it a *[reevaluation](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reevaluation#Noun)* (“A second or subsequent evaluation or rating”) or *[reassessment](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reassessment)* (“a second or subsequent assessment”).
Also see terminology mentioned in cochrane-net's [Combining studies](http://www.cochrane-net.org/openlearning/html/mod12-2.htm) webpage, and in wikipedia's [Meta analysis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-analysis) article. | Try to write it so that it is clear at any time which review is being referred to, and/or introduce your own terminology, e.g.:
1. for the original review:
a. original review
b. source review
c. 'review being reviewed'
d. Fred Smith's review (where *Fred Smith* is replaced by the original reviewer's name)
2. for your review:
a. second review
b. 'review-of-review'
c. my review (where *my* refers to you)
You need to be inventive here. |
25,826 | I consider Facebook to have information that is personal and that I only share with close friends and family. However, in my new workplace I’ve been asked several times for my Facebook username and/or have been *friend requested* and I don’t want to sound rude by telling them that I don't want to add them as friends.
Any suggestions on the way I should handle this? | 2014/06/03 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/25826",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/20907/"
] | My policy, when I was on Facebook, was very simple: Friends were just that, *friends*. I didn't add acquaintances, I didn't add every coworker, I didn't add folks whom I knew by sight but hadn't spent a significant amount of social time with. Period.
You don't have to respond to the request. Just ignore it, and let them deal with it. But you also don't have to feel bad about saying "Thanks, but no; I'm keeping work and personal life separate."
Ditto for any other social medium, unless you're in a situation where you're trying to do business via same... and then I'd suggest a separate account. | My approach is to have largely disjunct sets of social networks. You're a work colleague? Fine, I'll add you on LinkedIn and Google+. You're someone I met socially and you want to link up on Friendster? Fine.
It does go both ways, I know a lot of people who socialise in a work-like way. They have a small business, they're Amway victims or whatever. If I don't see them as related to **my** work I will keep them on the social side. Or the black-list, if that's how I feel about them.
I have cross-over stuff, like selling photos and hanging out with photographers, so I run multiple streams/sites for my photography. I generally add those people on both career and social sites, but I also partition them within the site. I have facebook groups for "family", "friends" and "clients", for example.
So my answer to those requests would be "why don't we use LinkedIn" (or whatever). |
25,826 | I consider Facebook to have information that is personal and that I only share with close friends and family. However, in my new workplace I’ve been asked several times for my Facebook username and/or have been *friend requested* and I don’t want to sound rude by telling them that I don't want to add them as friends.
Any suggestions on the way I should handle this? | 2014/06/03 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/25826",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/20907/"
] | I have a pretty large queue of individuals whose request that I friend them on Facebook I have studiously ignored, sometimes for years. And I have done this ignoring without embarrassment either.I don't recall anyone having ever made explicit, repeated requests to me that I friend them on Facebook.
If somebody keeps asking, I keep forgetting :) And I will tell that persistent someone that I make hardly any effort to maintain my Facebook page and that I'll process their request that I friend them "whenever" - There are so many ways of saying "No" without saying "No" :)
>
> Follow-upcomment from Gus "Altough I've done this a couple of times, I believe that I'm avoiding the "sincere" factor that can lead to future misunderstandings or colleagues not being sincere to me as well.."
>
>
>
I am sincere about certain things and diplomatic about others | I have a simple way of dealing with that.
I have the fortune of having a really good relationship with my workmates, even with the senior one, but since i have a totally uncommon life style, i've decided to not disclose my free time with them.
Since we are Italians, we tend to create strong groups and ties with people we work with, so to not refuse them the friendship on fb, i have created a fake profile as decoy for them.
So my "real" profile is one with a nick name, the "official" one is one with my real name and surname.
I've found it really useful even for online privacy and other social network connection, namely Linkedin, and it also doubles as a self-promotion tool for my working life.
Remember: you'll never be "too much" safe online. |
25,826 | I consider Facebook to have information that is personal and that I only share with close friends and family. However, in my new workplace I’ve been asked several times for my Facebook username and/or have been *friend requested* and I don’t want to sound rude by telling them that I don't want to add them as friends.
Any suggestions on the way I should handle this? | 2014/06/03 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/25826",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/20907/"
] | I have a simple rule for Facebook:
* We must have shared a meal together.
If you like this coworker enough to go out to eat with them, you can add them (possibly in a Restricted list as [Jake covers](https://workplace.stackexchange.com/a/25829/7194), if it was more of a one-time whole-department thing.) If you don't, you're not really friends.
The odd thing about this is that the rule spares everyone's feelings. If you say "I've been thinking about our relationship and I don't think we're friends, just coworkers" they will feel bad. If you say "I created an arbitrary rule before I ever met you and at the moment you don't qualify according to this rule" they don't. Sometimes they even say "That makes sense" or "I like that rule, I might start using it." No-one has ever told me I should change my rule. Oddly, no-one has ever campaigned for us to share a meal in order to qualify to be a FB friend. Brains are funny things.
What really counts is that the rule exists, not what it is. It could be "I have to have known you 6 months" or "we have to have met before I was 12 years old" or "at least two of my current friends have to have already added you" or "we have to be so close that I know your children's names" "we need to have attended at least one wedding together" - really anything that sounds reasonable and impartial. It makes it easier for you to evaluate these requests **and** easier for others to accept being rejected for not meeting the impartial rule. | My approach is to have largely disjunct sets of social networks. You're a work colleague? Fine, I'll add you on LinkedIn and Google+. You're someone I met socially and you want to link up on Friendster? Fine.
It does go both ways, I know a lot of people who socialise in a work-like way. They have a small business, they're Amway victims or whatever. If I don't see them as related to **my** work I will keep them on the social side. Or the black-list, if that's how I feel about them.
I have cross-over stuff, like selling photos and hanging out with photographers, so I run multiple streams/sites for my photography. I generally add those people on both career and social sites, but I also partition them within the site. I have facebook groups for "family", "friends" and "clients", for example.
So my answer to those requests would be "why don't we use LinkedIn" (or whatever). |
25,826 | I consider Facebook to have information that is personal and that I only share with close friends and family. However, in my new workplace I’ve been asked several times for my Facebook username and/or have been *friend requested* and I don’t want to sound rude by telling them that I don't want to add them as friends.
Any suggestions on the way I should handle this? | 2014/06/03 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/25826",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/20907/"
] | My policy, when I was on Facebook, was very simple: Friends were just that, *friends*. I didn't add acquaintances, I didn't add every coworker, I didn't add folks whom I knew by sight but hadn't spent a significant amount of social time with. Period.
You don't have to respond to the request. Just ignore it, and let them deal with it. But you also don't have to feel bad about saying "Thanks, but no; I'm keeping work and personal life separate."
Ditto for any other social medium, unless you're in a situation where you're trying to do business via same... and then I'd suggest a separate account. | I have a simple way of dealing with that.
I have the fortune of having a really good relationship with my workmates, even with the senior one, but since i have a totally uncommon life style, i've decided to not disclose my free time with them.
Since we are Italians, we tend to create strong groups and ties with people we work with, so to not refuse them the friendship on fb, i have created a fake profile as decoy for them.
So my "real" profile is one with a nick name, the "official" one is one with my real name and surname.
I've found it really useful even for online privacy and other social network connection, namely Linkedin, and it also doubles as a self-promotion tool for my working life.
Remember: you'll never be "too much" safe online. |
25,826 | I consider Facebook to have information that is personal and that I only share with close friends and family. However, in my new workplace I’ve been asked several times for my Facebook username and/or have been *friend requested* and I don’t want to sound rude by telling them that I don't want to add them as friends.
Any suggestions on the way I should handle this? | 2014/06/03 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/25826",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/20907/"
] | Tell them that you keep work relationships out of Facebook as a personal policy (and suggest they connect with you on LinkedIn instead, if you use that for your professional network). | My policy, when I was on Facebook, was very simple: Friends were just that, *friends*. I didn't add acquaintances, I didn't add every coworker, I didn't add folks whom I knew by sight but hadn't spent a significant amount of social time with. Period.
You don't have to respond to the request. Just ignore it, and let them deal with it. But you also don't have to feel bad about saying "Thanks, but no; I'm keeping work and personal life separate."
Ditto for any other social medium, unless you're in a situation where you're trying to do business via same... and then I'd suggest a separate account. |
25,826 | I consider Facebook to have information that is personal and that I only share with close friends and family. However, in my new workplace I’ve been asked several times for my Facebook username and/or have been *friend requested* and I don’t want to sound rude by telling them that I don't want to add them as friends.
Any suggestions on the way I should handle this? | 2014/06/03 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/25826",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/20907/"
] | >
> I’ve been asked several times for my Facebook username
> and/or have been friend requested and I don’t want to sound rude by
> telling them that I don’t want to add them as friends.
>
>
>
Easy. Just add them as friends to a “Restricted” list [as explained here](http://www.facebook.com/help/206571136073851):
>
> When you add someone to your Restricted list, they'll only be able to
> see your Public content or posts that you tag them in. So if you put
> your boss on your Restricted list, post a photo and choose Friends as
> the audience, your boss (and anyone else on Restricted) won’t see that
> photo. However, if you add a tag of your boss to the photo, we’ll let
> them know they’re in it and they’ll be able to see the photo. If
> someone else tries to tag your boss in one of your photos, you’ll get
> to approve this tag from your pending posts.
>
>
>
More step-by-step details can be found [in this article](http://mashable.com/2013/06/20/facebook-restricted-list/).
That said, adding them to a “Restricted” list might not end the issue when folks realize they do not have access to the full “you” on Facebook. If that’s the case, then there’s no other choice than to just nip the issue in the bud & be honest.
Perhaps just let some co-workers you have a some kind of friendship with be Facebook friends with you & ignore the rest? Your call. But perhaps it’s better to be honest for now than to dance around the issue & let it fester. | >
> I only connect with *very close* friends and family on Facebook.
>
>
>
Sounds acceptable to me.
You could even preface that with:
>
> It's not that I don't think of us as friends, it's just that...
>
>
>
---
An alternative (similar to [HLGEM's answer](https://workplace.stackexchange.com/a/25827/8234)), is to simply say:
>
> I prefer to keep my work and personal life separate.
>
>
>
HLGEM's suggested compromise of connecting on LinkedIn, if you have a profile, is a good addition - this prevents you from outright declining (which might not come across particularly well), and prevents pretty much any nagging or arguments from them. |
25,826 | I consider Facebook to have information that is personal and that I only share with close friends and family. However, in my new workplace I’ve been asked several times for my Facebook username and/or have been *friend requested* and I don’t want to sound rude by telling them that I don't want to add them as friends.
Any suggestions on the way I should handle this? | 2014/06/03 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/25826",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/20907/"
] | My policy, when I was on Facebook, was very simple: Friends were just that, *friends*. I didn't add acquaintances, I didn't add every coworker, I didn't add folks whom I knew by sight but hadn't spent a significant amount of social time with. Period.
You don't have to respond to the request. Just ignore it, and let them deal with it. But you also don't have to feel bad about saying "Thanks, but no; I'm keeping work and personal life separate."
Ditto for any other social medium, unless you're in a situation where you're trying to do business via same... and then I'd suggest a separate account. | My policy, that has served me well, is that I never, under any circumstance, add coworkers to my Facebook "Friends List" until I have left the job.
I can't see any good coming out of adding anyone while we are still coworkers. I don't need anyone monitoring my every move and I don't like having to think too hard about who is in what group when I am sharing opinions and personal thoughts.
What if I decide to post that I'm heading to an interview (which I do occasionally just to test the waters) or if another friend asks me about a recent interview experienc?
Can everyone I work with be trusted with that info? Even if one person can be trusted, they are like a vector by which another (untrustworthy/gossipping) employee could gain access to information I provide.
What happens when a nosy or hostile coworker steals a glance at their phone FB wall while they are distracted etc.
No coworkers...ever...this works for me since I tend to change jobs every 2-3 years anyhow. While I'm at a job, if we really are friends, then we probably don't communicate primarily through FB. If we are friends, we will have each others phone numbers and can text/call/im/email to arrange pretty much anything. |
25,826 | I consider Facebook to have information that is personal and that I only share with close friends and family. However, in my new workplace I’ve been asked several times for my Facebook username and/or have been *friend requested* and I don’t want to sound rude by telling them that I don't want to add them as friends.
Any suggestions on the way I should handle this? | 2014/06/03 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/25826",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/20907/"
] | My policy, that has served me well, is that I never, under any circumstance, add coworkers to my Facebook "Friends List" until I have left the job.
I can't see any good coming out of adding anyone while we are still coworkers. I don't need anyone monitoring my every move and I don't like having to think too hard about who is in what group when I am sharing opinions and personal thoughts.
What if I decide to post that I'm heading to an interview (which I do occasionally just to test the waters) or if another friend asks me about a recent interview experienc?
Can everyone I work with be trusted with that info? Even if one person can be trusted, they are like a vector by which another (untrustworthy/gossipping) employee could gain access to information I provide.
What happens when a nosy or hostile coworker steals a glance at their phone FB wall while they are distracted etc.
No coworkers...ever...this works for me since I tend to change jobs every 2-3 years anyhow. While I'm at a job, if we really are friends, then we probably don't communicate primarily through FB. If we are friends, we will have each others phone numbers and can text/call/im/email to arrange pretty much anything. | >
> I only connect with *very close* friends and family on Facebook.
>
>
>
Sounds acceptable to me.
You could even preface that with:
>
> It's not that I don't think of us as friends, it's just that...
>
>
>
---
An alternative (similar to [HLGEM's answer](https://workplace.stackexchange.com/a/25827/8234)), is to simply say:
>
> I prefer to keep my work and personal life separate.
>
>
>
HLGEM's suggested compromise of connecting on LinkedIn, if you have a profile, is a good addition - this prevents you from outright declining (which might not come across particularly well), and prevents pretty much any nagging or arguments from them. |
25,826 | I consider Facebook to have information that is personal and that I only share with close friends and family. However, in my new workplace I’ve been asked several times for my Facebook username and/or have been *friend requested* and I don’t want to sound rude by telling them that I don't want to add them as friends.
Any suggestions on the way I should handle this? | 2014/06/03 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/25826",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/20907/"
] | >
> I’ve been asked several times for my Facebook username
> and/or have been friend requested and I don’t want to sound rude by
> telling them that I don’t want to add them as friends.
>
>
>
Easy. Just add them as friends to a “Restricted” list [as explained here](http://www.facebook.com/help/206571136073851):
>
> When you add someone to your Restricted list, they'll only be able to
> see your Public content or posts that you tag them in. So if you put
> your boss on your Restricted list, post a photo and choose Friends as
> the audience, your boss (and anyone else on Restricted) won’t see that
> photo. However, if you add a tag of your boss to the photo, we’ll let
> them know they’re in it and they’ll be able to see the photo. If
> someone else tries to tag your boss in one of your photos, you’ll get
> to approve this tag from your pending posts.
>
>
>
More step-by-step details can be found [in this article](http://mashable.com/2013/06/20/facebook-restricted-list/).
That said, adding them to a “Restricted” list might not end the issue when folks realize they do not have access to the full “you” on Facebook. If that’s the case, then there’s no other choice than to just nip the issue in the bud & be honest.
Perhaps just let some co-workers you have a some kind of friendship with be Facebook friends with you & ignore the rest? Your call. But perhaps it’s better to be honest for now than to dance around the issue & let it fester. | I have a simple way of dealing with that.
I have the fortune of having a really good relationship with my workmates, even with the senior one, but since i have a totally uncommon life style, i've decided to not disclose my free time with them.
Since we are Italians, we tend to create strong groups and ties with people we work with, so to not refuse them the friendship on fb, i have created a fake profile as decoy for them.
So my "real" profile is one with a nick name, the "official" one is one with my real name and surname.
I've found it really useful even for online privacy and other social network connection, namely Linkedin, and it also doubles as a self-promotion tool for my working life.
Remember: you'll never be "too much" safe online. |
111,502 | >
> **Possible Duplicate:**
>
> [Why does this suggested edit have no diff?](https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/101035/why-does-this-suggested-edit-have-no-diff)
>
>
>
I found a [suggested edit](https://stackoverflow.com/suggested-edits/132347) where the user seems not to have edited anything.
Is it possible, or the suggested edit is not showing correctly the suggested edit?
**Update:** This has been already reported, but the other question is tagged [status-completed](/questions/tagged/status-completed "show questions tagged 'status-completed'"), while the same issue showed up again. | 2011/11/09 | [
"https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/111502",
"https://meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://meta.stackexchange.com/users/140449/"
] | I've submitted an [edit suggestion](https://meta.stackoverflow.com/suggested-edits/1847) which adds extra spaces between words in the title, and lo and behold, we get no diffs.
This looks like the same bug as described here: [Why does this suggested edit have no diff?](https://meta.stackexchange.com/q/101035/134327) | Looking at the sources of the edits, there is indeed no difference (compare [suggested post](https://stackoverflow.com/suggested-edits/132347/view-source) to [original post](https://stackoverflow.com/revisions/048a930a-8b1e-402f-b6bd-3394456c7527/view-source), but you have to set the width of the original post to 100% using Firebug though).
Perhaps the edit comment is regarded as data for the 30 characters limit? |
678,268 | I'm using Word 2010, and I'm working on a guide where contents to be added inside a table of three cells.
I have an issue with couple of pages where I couldn't insert the cursor into the left cell to add a text. It works in some of the pages, but not for the others.
I checked the Developer tab to see if any protection is active but nothing. I tried also to copy those tables into a new word, but got same result.
I couldn't find an answer online. So I appreciate your assistance. | 2013/11/20 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/678268",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/275506/"
] | If encountering this problem in Word 2016 - [known issue](https://support.office.com/en-us/article/After-installing-KB-3213656-or-KB-4011039-merged-table-cells-don-t-work-correctly-in-Word-or-Outlook-8c7af9eb-9e48-4e1e-8c13-6340ede4acdc?ui=en-US&rs=en-US&ad=US) after installing KB 3213656 (August 8) or KB 4011039 (September 5).
**ISSUE**
After installing the August 8, 2017, update for Word 2016 (KB3213656) or the September 5, 2017, update for Word 2016 (KB4011039), you may encounter the following issues:
If you merge vertical cells in a table, the cell content disappears, and you can’t select the merged cell.
If you open an existing document that has a table with merged cells, the cells will appear to be blank.
This issue occurs only for those who receive Office 2016 updates using Windows Installer technology (MSI). If you have a Click-to-Run edition of Office, such as Office 365 Personal, you won’t encounter this issue.
**WORKAROUND**
As a workaround, you can uninstall both KBs and your tables will return to normal. We anticipate releasing the fix for this issue in the next monthly update, tentatively scheduled for October 3, 2017.
[Follow the steps below on how to uninstall an update on Windows 10:](https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_word-mso_win10/i-cant-type-in-a-cell-after-cell-merge-in-ms-word/948c29cd-bd04-4b5f-be98-be87a0aafdd3)
1. Close Word 2016.
2. Select the Start button. Go to Settings > Update &
security > Update history > Uninstall updates.
3. Look for KB3213656 and KB4011039.
4. Select the updates and then click Uninstall.
5. Click Yes or enter the administrator password to proceed with the removal
process.
6. Wait for the process to complete. | Adding an additional column in a Word table caused no left/right margin in the cell.
I highlighted the cell, I went to Table Tools>Layout>Cell Size
Select "Cell" and Options. Put in the cell margins as preferred e.g. 0.19 |
678,268 | I'm using Word 2010, and I'm working on a guide where contents to be added inside a table of three cells.
I have an issue with couple of pages where I couldn't insert the cursor into the left cell to add a text. It works in some of the pages, but not for the others.
I checked the Developer tab to see if any protection is active but nothing. I tried also to copy those tables into a new word, but got same result.
I couldn't find an answer online. So I appreciate your assistance. | 2013/11/20 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/678268",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/275506/"
] | If encountering this problem in Word 2016 - [known issue](https://support.office.com/en-us/article/After-installing-KB-3213656-or-KB-4011039-merged-table-cells-don-t-work-correctly-in-Word-or-Outlook-8c7af9eb-9e48-4e1e-8c13-6340ede4acdc?ui=en-US&rs=en-US&ad=US) after installing KB 3213656 (August 8) or KB 4011039 (September 5).
**ISSUE**
After installing the August 8, 2017, update for Word 2016 (KB3213656) or the September 5, 2017, update for Word 2016 (KB4011039), you may encounter the following issues:
If you merge vertical cells in a table, the cell content disappears, and you can’t select the merged cell.
If you open an existing document that has a table with merged cells, the cells will appear to be blank.
This issue occurs only for those who receive Office 2016 updates using Windows Installer technology (MSI). If you have a Click-to-Run edition of Office, such as Office 365 Personal, you won’t encounter this issue.
**WORKAROUND**
As a workaround, you can uninstall both KBs and your tables will return to normal. We anticipate releasing the fix for this issue in the next monthly update, tentatively scheduled for October 3, 2017.
[Follow the steps below on how to uninstall an update on Windows 10:](https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_word-mso_win10/i-cant-type-in-a-cell-after-cell-merge-in-ms-word/948c29cd-bd04-4b5f-be98-be87a0aafdd3)
1. Close Word 2016.
2. Select the Start button. Go to Settings > Update &
security > Update history > Uninstall updates.
3. Look for KB3213656 and KB4011039.
4. Select the updates and then click Uninstall.
5. Click Yes or enter the administrator password to proceed with the removal
process.
6. Wait for the process to complete. | My table span was over 4 pages with only 1 page being affected. I put the cursor in the column I was having trouble inserting text and right clicked and under Table Properties check the column size. I did this on several pages and realized that the one I could not edit had sizes for the columns on that page, but the other ones were dithered at a whole size of 10.1. Also I preview my pages at 50 % to only focus on the columns and this help me realize when I had clicked the column that had the problem it highlighted the following page. I turned on the paragraph marker and notice I had a hard return at the top of the page with the problem column, so I deleted it and at the bottom of that page I place a page break to move the border row back to the top of the next page. This was definitely one I had seen before. |
678,268 | I'm using Word 2010, and I'm working on a guide where contents to be added inside a table of three cells.
I have an issue with couple of pages where I couldn't insert the cursor into the left cell to add a text. It works in some of the pages, but not for the others.
I checked the Developer tab to see if any protection is active but nothing. I tried also to copy those tables into a new word, but got same result.
I couldn't find an answer online. So I appreciate your assistance. | 2013/11/20 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/678268",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/275506/"
] | I had this problem as well. It was caused by the cell margins being set larger than the cell width. Try going to the Table Properties, then the Cell tab and select Options. Then reduce the cell margins. | My table span was over 4 pages with only 1 page being affected. I put the cursor in the column I was having trouble inserting text and right clicked and under Table Properties check the column size. I did this on several pages and realized that the one I could not edit had sizes for the columns on that page, but the other ones were dithered at a whole size of 10.1. Also I preview my pages at 50 % to only focus on the columns and this help me realize when I had clicked the column that had the problem it highlighted the following page. I turned on the paragraph marker and notice I had a hard return at the top of the page with the problem column, so I deleted it and at the bottom of that page I place a page break to move the border row back to the top of the next page. This was definitely one I had seen before. |
678,268 | I'm using Word 2010, and I'm working on a guide where contents to be added inside a table of three cells.
I have an issue with couple of pages where I couldn't insert the cursor into the left cell to add a text. It works in some of the pages, but not for the others.
I checked the Developer tab to see if any protection is active but nothing. I tried also to copy those tables into a new word, but got same result.
I couldn't find an answer online. So I appreciate your assistance. | 2013/11/20 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/678268",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/275506/"
] | This happened to me in Word 2007. For some reason the font in that cell had re-sized itself to 0.5 (just for that cell!). Click in the area of the cell and increase font size. | Install KB 4011140 from the Microsoft Website. It worked for me. |
678,268 | I'm using Word 2010, and I'm working on a guide where contents to be added inside a table of three cells.
I have an issue with couple of pages where I couldn't insert the cursor into the left cell to add a text. It works in some of the pages, but not for the others.
I checked the Developer tab to see if any protection is active but nothing. I tried also to copy those tables into a new word, but got same result.
I couldn't find an answer online. So I appreciate your assistance. | 2013/11/20 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/678268",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/275506/"
] | I had this problem as well. It was caused by the cell margins being set larger than the cell width. Try going to the Table Properties, then the Cell tab and select Options. Then reduce the cell margins. | Adding an additional column in a Word table caused no left/right margin in the cell.
I highlighted the cell, I went to Table Tools>Layout>Cell Size
Select "Cell" and Options. Put in the cell margins as preferred e.g. 0.19 |
678,268 | I'm using Word 2010, and I'm working on a guide where contents to be added inside a table of three cells.
I have an issue with couple of pages where I couldn't insert the cursor into the left cell to add a text. It works in some of the pages, but not for the others.
I checked the Developer tab to see if any protection is active but nothing. I tried also to copy those tables into a new word, but got same result.
I couldn't find an answer online. So I appreciate your assistance. | 2013/11/20 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/678268",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/275506/"
] | I had this problem as well. It was caused by the cell margins being set larger than the cell width. Try going to the Table Properties, then the Cell tab and select Options. Then reduce the cell margins. | You can solve this as follows:
1. Turn on paragraph marks, then
2. Delete a paragraph mark or two in the same column on the preceding page |
678,268 | I'm using Word 2010, and I'm working on a guide where contents to be added inside a table of three cells.
I have an issue with couple of pages where I couldn't insert the cursor into the left cell to add a text. It works in some of the pages, but not for the others.
I checked the Developer tab to see if any protection is active but nothing. I tried also to copy those tables into a new word, but got same result.
I couldn't find an answer online. So I appreciate your assistance. | 2013/11/20 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/678268",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/275506/"
] | This happened to me in Word 2007. For some reason the font in that cell had re-sized itself to 0.5 (just for that cell!). Click in the area of the cell and increase font size. | My table span was over 4 pages with only 1 page being affected. I put the cursor in the column I was having trouble inserting text and right clicked and under Table Properties check the column size. I did this on several pages and realized that the one I could not edit had sizes for the columns on that page, but the other ones were dithered at a whole size of 10.1. Also I preview my pages at 50 % to only focus on the columns and this help me realize when I had clicked the column that had the problem it highlighted the following page. I turned on the paragraph marker and notice I had a hard return at the top of the page with the problem column, so I deleted it and at the bottom of that page I place a page break to move the border row back to the top of the next page. This was definitely one I had seen before. |
678,268 | I'm using Word 2010, and I'm working on a guide where contents to be added inside a table of three cells.
I have an issue with couple of pages where I couldn't insert the cursor into the left cell to add a text. It works in some of the pages, but not for the others.
I checked the Developer tab to see if any protection is active but nothing. I tried also to copy those tables into a new word, but got same result.
I couldn't find an answer online. So I appreciate your assistance. | 2013/11/20 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/678268",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/275506/"
] | The problem with my file was that Word had arbitrarily set the point size to 0.5 in all the empty cells. Once I reset the point size to 10, I could enter text. | My table span was over 4 pages with only 1 page being affected. I put the cursor in the column I was having trouble inserting text and right clicked and under Table Properties check the column size. I did this on several pages and realized that the one I could not edit had sizes for the columns on that page, but the other ones were dithered at a whole size of 10.1. Also I preview my pages at 50 % to only focus on the columns and this help me realize when I had clicked the column that had the problem it highlighted the following page. I turned on the paragraph marker and notice I had a hard return at the top of the page with the problem column, so I deleted it and at the bottom of that page I place a page break to move the border row back to the top of the next page. This was definitely one I had seen before. |
678,268 | I'm using Word 2010, and I'm working on a guide where contents to be added inside a table of three cells.
I have an issue with couple of pages where I couldn't insert the cursor into the left cell to add a text. It works in some of the pages, but not for the others.
I checked the Developer tab to see if any protection is active but nothing. I tried also to copy those tables into a new word, but got same result.
I couldn't find an answer online. So I appreciate your assistance. | 2013/11/20 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/678268",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/275506/"
] | The problem with my file was that Word had arbitrarily set the point size to 0.5 in all the empty cells. Once I reset the point size to 10, I could enter text. | Install KB 4011140 from the Microsoft Website. It worked for me. |
678,268 | I'm using Word 2010, and I'm working on a guide where contents to be added inside a table of three cells.
I have an issue with couple of pages where I couldn't insert the cursor into the left cell to add a text. It works in some of the pages, but not for the others.
I checked the Developer tab to see if any protection is active but nothing. I tried also to copy those tables into a new word, but got same result.
I couldn't find an answer online. So I appreciate your assistance. | 2013/11/20 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/678268",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/275506/"
] | You can solve this as follows:
1. Turn on paragraph marks, then
2. Delete a paragraph mark or two in the same column on the preceding page | My table span was over 4 pages with only 1 page being affected. I put the cursor in the column I was having trouble inserting text and right clicked and under Table Properties check the column size. I did this on several pages and realized that the one I could not edit had sizes for the columns on that page, but the other ones were dithered at a whole size of 10.1. Also I preview my pages at 50 % to only focus on the columns and this help me realize when I had clicked the column that had the problem it highlighted the following page. I turned on the paragraph marker and notice I had a hard return at the top of the page with the problem column, so I deleted it and at the bottom of that page I place a page break to move the border row back to the top of the next page. This was definitely one I had seen before. |
84,716 | I am looking to smoke some meat for my chili, but the problem is, I have no smoker. I understand there are products like liquid smoke, however, this didn't create the taste I wanted or really much of one for that matter (I used a good 1/4 of the bottle too). Is there a way to get your own wood chips and smoke something in a propane grill or even an outdoor firepit? Are there wood solutions or chips you can throw into a crock for chili to provide a smoked flavor? Any help would be appreciated!
EDIT: Found a link that mentions the possibility of [using real wood chips in a crockpot to smoke the meat](http://www.ayearofslowcooking.com/2008/08/you-can-use-your-crockpot-as-smoker.html). I am a little skeptical of this. Would this be a possible method? | 2017/09/28 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/84716",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/59210/"
] | Take a large cardboard box. Lay it so the top is facing a side. Cut a small whole to allow for a plug. Place a electric 5th burner inside. Use a super cheap pan as your wood pan. Put a rack on some rocks to lift it up. Place food on rack. Heat on medium. Tape box closed. You can find videos on YouTube. [](https://i.stack.imgur.com/VFiEQ.jpg) | 1 heavy wok. Good tight lid. Cast iron is best. 1 round rack in bottom. Heat wok till it smokes. 1 bags tea used then dried well. Drop in tea. turn of high heat. Put duck or chicken on rack. Put on tight lid. Wait till wok cools. 1 tea smoked duck or chicken. Now bake or fix bird. This is best done outside. 1 roasting pan. 1 rack in it. 1 tinfoil pack of charcoal or sawdust. Put in bottom of roasting pan. with 2 tooth pick holes in it. For smoke to escape. Place meat on rack. cover tight with 2 layers tinfoil. Place in hot over 360f or 375. Place on lower rack in oven. Let bake 1 & 1/2 hour. By then sawdust should have smoked off in pan. Remove from oven. Remove tinfoil. Finish baking roast at 325 or 350f. This will smoke up a oven inside. Hard to remove stains inside. But wok smoking is very easy if you have a outside burner. This will smoke up a kitchen. So quick wok smoking. takes a little practice to know how well smoked & time to smoke in wok. Do not remove lid! till cooled. That lets smoke out. |
84,716 | I am looking to smoke some meat for my chili, but the problem is, I have no smoker. I understand there are products like liquid smoke, however, this didn't create the taste I wanted or really much of one for that matter (I used a good 1/4 of the bottle too). Is there a way to get your own wood chips and smoke something in a propane grill or even an outdoor firepit? Are there wood solutions or chips you can throw into a crock for chili to provide a smoked flavor? Any help would be appreciated!
EDIT: Found a link that mentions the possibility of [using real wood chips in a crockpot to smoke the meat](http://www.ayearofslowcooking.com/2008/08/you-can-use-your-crockpot-as-smoker.html). I am a little skeptical of this. Would this be a possible method? | 2017/09/28 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/84716",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/59210/"
] | I see chefs using "smoking guns" on food network competitions all the time. It's a tiny "gun" with a heating element. When a small amount of wood is placed in it and it is turned on, the smoke will exit a tube at the end. If food is placed in a plastic bag and twist tied around the tube the smoke can cold-smoke the food. | 1 heavy wok. Good tight lid. Cast iron is best. 1 round rack in bottom. Heat wok till it smokes. 1 bags tea used then dried well. Drop in tea. turn of high heat. Put duck or chicken on rack. Put on tight lid. Wait till wok cools. 1 tea smoked duck or chicken. Now bake or fix bird. This is best done outside. 1 roasting pan. 1 rack in it. 1 tinfoil pack of charcoal or sawdust. Put in bottom of roasting pan. with 2 tooth pick holes in it. For smoke to escape. Place meat on rack. cover tight with 2 layers tinfoil. Place in hot over 360f or 375. Place on lower rack in oven. Let bake 1 & 1/2 hour. By then sawdust should have smoked off in pan. Remove from oven. Remove tinfoil. Finish baking roast at 325 or 350f. This will smoke up a oven inside. Hard to remove stains inside. But wok smoking is very easy if you have a outside burner. This will smoke up a kitchen. So quick wok smoking. takes a little practice to know how well smoked & time to smoke in wok. Do not remove lid! till cooled. That lets smoke out. |
84,716 | I am looking to smoke some meat for my chili, but the problem is, I have no smoker. I understand there are products like liquid smoke, however, this didn't create the taste I wanted or really much of one for that matter (I used a good 1/4 of the bottle too). Is there a way to get your own wood chips and smoke something in a propane grill or even an outdoor firepit? Are there wood solutions or chips you can throw into a crock for chili to provide a smoked flavor? Any help would be appreciated!
EDIT: Found a link that mentions the possibility of [using real wood chips in a crockpot to smoke the meat](http://www.ayearofslowcooking.com/2008/08/you-can-use-your-crockpot-as-smoker.html). I am a little skeptical of this. Would this be a possible method? | 2017/09/28 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/84716",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/59210/"
] | I have successfully smoked with apple wood chunks wrapped in foil in my outdoor grill. The trick is to find a setting that will maintain ~300 F using 1/2 of the burners. Then place the foil-wrapped chunks on the hot side and the meat on the cool side. The wood will begin to smoke after 10 minutes or so.
Keep checking periodically to maintain 300 F.
I do this with already cooked sous-vide pork. It may need adjustment to cook raw meat while smoking - maybe up the temp to 350 F or so.
I adapted this technique from Kenji: <http://www.seriouseats.com/2016/08/food-lab-complete-guide-sous-vide-barbecue-smoked-bbq-brisket.html>:
>
> Method 2: Using Live Smoke
>
>
> If you've got yourself a kettle grill or smoker, then you can enhance your sous vide brisket through a bit of honest-to-goodness smoking. I find that by letting my brisket cool a bit (or even refrigerating it for up to a week), I can place it on the cooler side of a kettle grill that I've heated to around 300°F with charcoal and wood chunks and let it smoke for a good three hours or so before it starts to dry out at all. This is ample time to develop a deep, dark crust and to get some smoky flavor in there.
>
>
> Is it better to apply that smoke before or after cooking sous vide? Well, according to folks like Meathead Goldwyn, author of the eponymous book on the science of barbecue, the flavorful compounds in smoke will adhere to and penetrate raw meat much better than they will with cooked meat. This is true, but I find that the amount of smoke flavor I get out of a post–sous vide session in the smoker is plenty for my taste buds, and smoking at the end makes the process so much more efficient. I'll stick to the post–sous vide smoke.
>
>
> | I would use smoked salt. Since I saw this video
[Justin Wilson Oysters and Crabs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTRwdzZA05o&t=504s) I'm using it. And man this is the thing.
I was using different "smoked sauces", the thing with smoking the meat in an oven with some wood (similar to the method in your link), liquid smoke.
Nothing can beat the salt trick. It's cheap, easy, you don't add additional taste (it's not salty from this salt) and you can use it to enrich the sauce if you make one from the meat.
So you mix it with meat the put in the chili and if you think it could be more "smoky" you can add a little bit more. Something that is hard to do with other methods. |
84,716 | I am looking to smoke some meat for my chili, but the problem is, I have no smoker. I understand there are products like liquid smoke, however, this didn't create the taste I wanted or really much of one for that matter (I used a good 1/4 of the bottle too). Is there a way to get your own wood chips and smoke something in a propane grill or even an outdoor firepit? Are there wood solutions or chips you can throw into a crock for chili to provide a smoked flavor? Any help would be appreciated!
EDIT: Found a link that mentions the possibility of [using real wood chips in a crockpot to smoke the meat](http://www.ayearofslowcooking.com/2008/08/you-can-use-your-crockpot-as-smoker.html). I am a little skeptical of this. Would this be a possible method? | 2017/09/28 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/84716",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/59210/"
] | I have successfully smoked with apple wood chunks wrapped in foil in my outdoor grill. The trick is to find a setting that will maintain ~300 F using 1/2 of the burners. Then place the foil-wrapped chunks on the hot side and the meat on the cool side. The wood will begin to smoke after 10 minutes or so.
Keep checking periodically to maintain 300 F.
I do this with already cooked sous-vide pork. It may need adjustment to cook raw meat while smoking - maybe up the temp to 350 F or so.
I adapted this technique from Kenji: <http://www.seriouseats.com/2016/08/food-lab-complete-guide-sous-vide-barbecue-smoked-bbq-brisket.html>:
>
> Method 2: Using Live Smoke
>
>
> If you've got yourself a kettle grill or smoker, then you can enhance your sous vide brisket through a bit of honest-to-goodness smoking. I find that by letting my brisket cool a bit (or even refrigerating it for up to a week), I can place it on the cooler side of a kettle grill that I've heated to around 300°F with charcoal and wood chunks and let it smoke for a good three hours or so before it starts to dry out at all. This is ample time to develop a deep, dark crust and to get some smoky flavor in there.
>
>
> Is it better to apply that smoke before or after cooking sous vide? Well, according to folks like Meathead Goldwyn, author of the eponymous book on the science of barbecue, the flavorful compounds in smoke will adhere to and penetrate raw meat much better than they will with cooked meat. This is true, but I find that the amount of smoke flavor I get out of a post–sous vide session in the smoker is plenty for my taste buds, and smoking at the end makes the process so much more efficient. I'll stick to the post–sous vide smoke.
>
>
> | I see chefs using "smoking guns" on food network competitions all the time. It's a tiny "gun" with a heating element. When a small amount of wood is placed in it and it is turned on, the smoke will exit a tube at the end. If food is placed in a plastic bag and twist tied around the tube the smoke can cold-smoke the food. |
84,716 | I am looking to smoke some meat for my chili, but the problem is, I have no smoker. I understand there are products like liquid smoke, however, this didn't create the taste I wanted or really much of one for that matter (I used a good 1/4 of the bottle too). Is there a way to get your own wood chips and smoke something in a propane grill or even an outdoor firepit? Are there wood solutions or chips you can throw into a crock for chili to provide a smoked flavor? Any help would be appreciated!
EDIT: Found a link that mentions the possibility of [using real wood chips in a crockpot to smoke the meat](http://www.ayearofslowcooking.com/2008/08/you-can-use-your-crockpot-as-smoker.html). I am a little skeptical of this. Would this be a possible method? | 2017/09/28 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/84716",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/59210/"
] | I would use smoked salt. Since I saw this video
[Justin Wilson Oysters and Crabs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTRwdzZA05o&t=504s) I'm using it. And man this is the thing.
I was using different "smoked sauces", the thing with smoking the meat in an oven with some wood (similar to the method in your link), liquid smoke.
Nothing can beat the salt trick. It's cheap, easy, you don't add additional taste (it's not salty from this salt) and you can use it to enrich the sauce if you make one from the meat.
So you mix it with meat the put in the chili and if you think it could be more "smoky" you can add a little bit more. Something that is hard to do with other methods. | There are several ways to smoke your meat without a dedicated smoker.
1. **Buy a wood chips box**. This is a cast iron box, where you place on top of your ordinary grill, and place smoking chips inside.
2. Some **electric turkey roasters** have integrated smoking chip compartments. I once owned one by Oster.
3. Use a **charcoal grill**. Setting up the coals in a snake formation, can effectively smoke delicious meat.
4. If used in moderation, **liquid smoke** can do the job when none of these other methods are available. |
84,716 | I am looking to smoke some meat for my chili, but the problem is, I have no smoker. I understand there are products like liquid smoke, however, this didn't create the taste I wanted or really much of one for that matter (I used a good 1/4 of the bottle too). Is there a way to get your own wood chips and smoke something in a propane grill or even an outdoor firepit? Are there wood solutions or chips you can throw into a crock for chili to provide a smoked flavor? Any help would be appreciated!
EDIT: Found a link that mentions the possibility of [using real wood chips in a crockpot to smoke the meat](http://www.ayearofslowcooking.com/2008/08/you-can-use-your-crockpot-as-smoker.html). I am a little skeptical of this. Would this be a possible method? | 2017/09/28 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/84716",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/59210/"
] | I see chefs using "smoking guns" on food network competitions all the time. It's a tiny "gun" with a heating element. When a small amount of wood is placed in it and it is turned on, the smoke will exit a tube at the end. If food is placed in a plastic bag and twist tied around the tube the smoke can cold-smoke the food. | There are several ways to smoke your meat without a dedicated smoker.
1. **Buy a wood chips box**. This is a cast iron box, where you place on top of your ordinary grill, and place smoking chips inside.
2. Some **electric turkey roasters** have integrated smoking chip compartments. I once owned one by Oster.
3. Use a **charcoal grill**. Setting up the coals in a snake formation, can effectively smoke delicious meat.
4. If used in moderation, **liquid smoke** can do the job when none of these other methods are available. |
84,716 | I am looking to smoke some meat for my chili, but the problem is, I have no smoker. I understand there are products like liquid smoke, however, this didn't create the taste I wanted or really much of one for that matter (I used a good 1/4 of the bottle too). Is there a way to get your own wood chips and smoke something in a propane grill or even an outdoor firepit? Are there wood solutions or chips you can throw into a crock for chili to provide a smoked flavor? Any help would be appreciated!
EDIT: Found a link that mentions the possibility of [using real wood chips in a crockpot to smoke the meat](http://www.ayearofslowcooking.com/2008/08/you-can-use-your-crockpot-as-smoker.html). I am a little skeptical of this. Would this be a possible method? | 2017/09/28 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/84716",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/59210/"
] | I would use smoked salt. Since I saw this video
[Justin Wilson Oysters and Crabs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTRwdzZA05o&t=504s) I'm using it. And man this is the thing.
I was using different "smoked sauces", the thing with smoking the meat in an oven with some wood (similar to the method in your link), liquid smoke.
Nothing can beat the salt trick. It's cheap, easy, you don't add additional taste (it's not salty from this salt) and you can use it to enrich the sauce if you make one from the meat.
So you mix it with meat the put in the chili and if you think it could be more "smoky" you can add a little bit more. Something that is hard to do with other methods. | 1 heavy wok. Good tight lid. Cast iron is best. 1 round rack in bottom. Heat wok till it smokes. 1 bags tea used then dried well. Drop in tea. turn of high heat. Put duck or chicken on rack. Put on tight lid. Wait till wok cools. 1 tea smoked duck or chicken. Now bake or fix bird. This is best done outside. 1 roasting pan. 1 rack in it. 1 tinfoil pack of charcoal or sawdust. Put in bottom of roasting pan. with 2 tooth pick holes in it. For smoke to escape. Place meat on rack. cover tight with 2 layers tinfoil. Place in hot over 360f or 375. Place on lower rack in oven. Let bake 1 & 1/2 hour. By then sawdust should have smoked off in pan. Remove from oven. Remove tinfoil. Finish baking roast at 325 or 350f. This will smoke up a oven inside. Hard to remove stains inside. But wok smoking is very easy if you have a outside burner. This will smoke up a kitchen. So quick wok smoking. takes a little practice to know how well smoked & time to smoke in wok. Do not remove lid! till cooled. That lets smoke out. |
84,716 | I am looking to smoke some meat for my chili, but the problem is, I have no smoker. I understand there are products like liquid smoke, however, this didn't create the taste I wanted or really much of one for that matter (I used a good 1/4 of the bottle too). Is there a way to get your own wood chips and smoke something in a propane grill or even an outdoor firepit? Are there wood solutions or chips you can throw into a crock for chili to provide a smoked flavor? Any help would be appreciated!
EDIT: Found a link that mentions the possibility of [using real wood chips in a crockpot to smoke the meat](http://www.ayearofslowcooking.com/2008/08/you-can-use-your-crockpot-as-smoker.html). I am a little skeptical of this. Would this be a possible method? | 2017/09/28 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/84716",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/59210/"
] | I have successfully smoked with apple wood chunks wrapped in foil in my outdoor grill. The trick is to find a setting that will maintain ~300 F using 1/2 of the burners. Then place the foil-wrapped chunks on the hot side and the meat on the cool side. The wood will begin to smoke after 10 minutes or so.
Keep checking periodically to maintain 300 F.
I do this with already cooked sous-vide pork. It may need adjustment to cook raw meat while smoking - maybe up the temp to 350 F or so.
I adapted this technique from Kenji: <http://www.seriouseats.com/2016/08/food-lab-complete-guide-sous-vide-barbecue-smoked-bbq-brisket.html>:
>
> Method 2: Using Live Smoke
>
>
> If you've got yourself a kettle grill or smoker, then you can enhance your sous vide brisket through a bit of honest-to-goodness smoking. I find that by letting my brisket cool a bit (or even refrigerating it for up to a week), I can place it on the cooler side of a kettle grill that I've heated to around 300°F with charcoal and wood chunks and let it smoke for a good three hours or so before it starts to dry out at all. This is ample time to develop a deep, dark crust and to get some smoky flavor in there.
>
>
> Is it better to apply that smoke before or after cooking sous vide? Well, according to folks like Meathead Goldwyn, author of the eponymous book on the science of barbecue, the flavorful compounds in smoke will adhere to and penetrate raw meat much better than they will with cooked meat. This is true, but I find that the amount of smoke flavor I get out of a post–sous vide session in the smoker is plenty for my taste buds, and smoking at the end makes the process so much more efficient. I'll stick to the post–sous vide smoke.
>
>
> | There are several ways to smoke your meat without a dedicated smoker.
1. **Buy a wood chips box**. This is a cast iron box, where you place on top of your ordinary grill, and place smoking chips inside.
2. Some **electric turkey roasters** have integrated smoking chip compartments. I once owned one by Oster.
3. Use a **charcoal grill**. Setting up the coals in a snake formation, can effectively smoke delicious meat.
4. If used in moderation, **liquid smoke** can do the job when none of these other methods are available. |
84,716 | I am looking to smoke some meat for my chili, but the problem is, I have no smoker. I understand there are products like liquid smoke, however, this didn't create the taste I wanted or really much of one for that matter (I used a good 1/4 of the bottle too). Is there a way to get your own wood chips and smoke something in a propane grill or even an outdoor firepit? Are there wood solutions or chips you can throw into a crock for chili to provide a smoked flavor? Any help would be appreciated!
EDIT: Found a link that mentions the possibility of [using real wood chips in a crockpot to smoke the meat](http://www.ayearofslowcooking.com/2008/08/you-can-use-your-crockpot-as-smoker.html). I am a little skeptical of this. Would this be a possible method? | 2017/09/28 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/84716",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/59210/"
] | I have successfully smoked with apple wood chunks wrapped in foil in my outdoor grill. The trick is to find a setting that will maintain ~300 F using 1/2 of the burners. Then place the foil-wrapped chunks on the hot side and the meat on the cool side. The wood will begin to smoke after 10 minutes or so.
Keep checking periodically to maintain 300 F.
I do this with already cooked sous-vide pork. It may need adjustment to cook raw meat while smoking - maybe up the temp to 350 F or so.
I adapted this technique from Kenji: <http://www.seriouseats.com/2016/08/food-lab-complete-guide-sous-vide-barbecue-smoked-bbq-brisket.html>:
>
> Method 2: Using Live Smoke
>
>
> If you've got yourself a kettle grill or smoker, then you can enhance your sous vide brisket through a bit of honest-to-goodness smoking. I find that by letting my brisket cool a bit (or even refrigerating it for up to a week), I can place it on the cooler side of a kettle grill that I've heated to around 300°F with charcoal and wood chunks and let it smoke for a good three hours or so before it starts to dry out at all. This is ample time to develop a deep, dark crust and to get some smoky flavor in there.
>
>
> Is it better to apply that smoke before or after cooking sous vide? Well, according to folks like Meathead Goldwyn, author of the eponymous book on the science of barbecue, the flavorful compounds in smoke will adhere to and penetrate raw meat much better than they will with cooked meat. This is true, but I find that the amount of smoke flavor I get out of a post–sous vide session in the smoker is plenty for my taste buds, and smoking at the end makes the process so much more efficient. I'll stick to the post–sous vide smoke.
>
>
> | 1 heavy wok. Good tight lid. Cast iron is best. 1 round rack in bottom. Heat wok till it smokes. 1 bags tea used then dried well. Drop in tea. turn of high heat. Put duck or chicken on rack. Put on tight lid. Wait till wok cools. 1 tea smoked duck or chicken. Now bake or fix bird. This is best done outside. 1 roasting pan. 1 rack in it. 1 tinfoil pack of charcoal or sawdust. Put in bottom of roasting pan. with 2 tooth pick holes in it. For smoke to escape. Place meat on rack. cover tight with 2 layers tinfoil. Place in hot over 360f or 375. Place on lower rack in oven. Let bake 1 & 1/2 hour. By then sawdust should have smoked off in pan. Remove from oven. Remove tinfoil. Finish baking roast at 325 or 350f. This will smoke up a oven inside. Hard to remove stains inside. But wok smoking is very easy if you have a outside burner. This will smoke up a kitchen. So quick wok smoking. takes a little practice to know how well smoked & time to smoke in wok. Do not remove lid! till cooled. That lets smoke out. |
84,716 | I am looking to smoke some meat for my chili, but the problem is, I have no smoker. I understand there are products like liquid smoke, however, this didn't create the taste I wanted or really much of one for that matter (I used a good 1/4 of the bottle too). Is there a way to get your own wood chips and smoke something in a propane grill or even an outdoor firepit? Are there wood solutions or chips you can throw into a crock for chili to provide a smoked flavor? Any help would be appreciated!
EDIT: Found a link that mentions the possibility of [using real wood chips in a crockpot to smoke the meat](http://www.ayearofslowcooking.com/2008/08/you-can-use-your-crockpot-as-smoker.html). I am a little skeptical of this. Would this be a possible method? | 2017/09/28 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/84716",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/59210/"
] | Take a large cardboard box. Lay it so the top is facing a side. Cut a small whole to allow for a plug. Place a electric 5th burner inside. Use a super cheap pan as your wood pan. Put a rack on some rocks to lift it up. Place food on rack. Heat on medium. Tape box closed. You can find videos on YouTube. [](https://i.stack.imgur.com/VFiEQ.jpg) | There are several ways to smoke your meat without a dedicated smoker.
1. **Buy a wood chips box**. This is a cast iron box, where you place on top of your ordinary grill, and place smoking chips inside.
2. Some **electric turkey roasters** have integrated smoking chip compartments. I once owned one by Oster.
3. Use a **charcoal grill**. Setting up the coals in a snake formation, can effectively smoke delicious meat.
4. If used in moderation, **liquid smoke** can do the job when none of these other methods are available. |
128,933 | **Background**
I'm currently at a cross section in my career in a corporate.
I'm almost a year working as a software engineer; in that period of time I've passed a team straining about the team's back-end and front-end technologies, fixing bugs (while getting help from the only teammate who fix bugs), some refactoring metrics, and a POC of our main project which planned for us this year.
Right now, other teammates are working on tasks of the projects while I didn't get so far any task that is related to the project.
All what I got is bugs, and the fact - "you're supposed to replace him and take all of the responsibilities of maintenance from him", even though I did in the past months a deep research and built a POC.
**My question**
How can I ask from my manager to involve me in the project, while they clearly said to me that I'm the "new guy", and somebody must to do all of this dirty work? | 2019/02/13 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/128933",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/99624/"
] | They need someone to fix bugs. It seems that, to them, it is most economically beneficial to put experienced people on new project, and you on bug fixing.
The only chance to change that assignment is to present management with **business benefits** of doing so. You have to think of arguments that will show why putting least experienced person on new project is *not* increasing project cost (time, money, technical debt and other kinds of cost) and actually earns **them** something.
If only argument you will present will be "I'm not happy with bug fixing", you risk they will mitigate business risk by replacing you with someone who is happy to fix bugs.
---
As for specific benefits, one benefit of having you involved in new project is that you will know it enough to bugfix it later. Also, sending some bugs from older systems to other employees will mean they know enough about these old system to bugfix them if you will ever get sick, killed in bus accident etc. Will it be enough? I doubt so, probably management already considered this. But at least it is a start. | I think you are looking at this the wrong way.
I started in a company where after some time all I was doing was "bug fixing",not as much in code as it was in business processes, all I did was fix things when people made mistakes, this helped me when I was the one developing the business processes, helped me even more when I started bug fixing the applications we used, which then when I started developing, I already knew the applications well so the coding aspect was a lot easier (SQL) when I knew where the data was anyway.
Take advantage that you are bug fixing so much and learn with it, find patterns and learn with them.
You will get your chance when needed, always seem eager to help, if you are told the project hits a block ask if you can take a look and possibly help. Everyone is needed and at the moment, you are needed in bug fixing. |
128,933 | **Background**
I'm currently at a cross section in my career in a corporate.
I'm almost a year working as a software engineer; in that period of time I've passed a team straining about the team's back-end and front-end technologies, fixing bugs (while getting help from the only teammate who fix bugs), some refactoring metrics, and a POC of our main project which planned for us this year.
Right now, other teammates are working on tasks of the projects while I didn't get so far any task that is related to the project.
All what I got is bugs, and the fact - "you're supposed to replace him and take all of the responsibilities of maintenance from him", even though I did in the past months a deep research and built a POC.
**My question**
How can I ask from my manager to involve me in the project, while they clearly said to me that I'm the "new guy", and somebody must to do all of this dirty work? | 2019/02/13 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/128933",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/99624/"
] | They need someone to fix bugs. It seems that, to them, it is most economically beneficial to put experienced people on new project, and you on bug fixing.
The only chance to change that assignment is to present management with **business benefits** of doing so. You have to think of arguments that will show why putting least experienced person on new project is *not* increasing project cost (time, money, technical debt and other kinds of cost) and actually earns **them** something.
If only argument you will present will be "I'm not happy with bug fixing", you risk they will mitigate business risk by replacing you with someone who is happy to fix bugs.
---
As for specific benefits, one benefit of having you involved in new project is that you will know it enough to bugfix it later. Also, sending some bugs from older systems to other employees will mean they know enough about these old system to bugfix them if you will ever get sick, killed in bus accident etc. Will it be enough? I doubt so, probably management already considered this. But at least it is a start. | Software development can be remarkably meritocratic. In short, pay your dues. Demonstrate you can fix bugs fast and well. Engage in the development process around you. Learn about internal processes and understand the platform's business model and solve the problem's in front of you with skill and speed. You won't need to ask to work on a project, they'll just assign you a project.
The fundamental truth, is in software you end up doing projects because of either one of two conditions:
Either you are good or they are desperate. If you want to build something, either be good or work for someone desperate. |
79,865 | I am currently working on connecting ip cameras together .
I am using cat7 sftp cable .
according to the bellow article :
<http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-rj45-and-rj48/>
I understand that :
1. RJ45 is used with UTP cable only .
2. I can't use RJ48 because it will not fit into my NVR and SWITCHES .
I have two questions :
1. I found RJ45 which fit cat7 cable .
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071GXPTVZ/ref=twister\_B09ZYBKJFZ](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/B071GXPTVZ)
How could that happen ? RJ45 should be used with utp cables only ? right ?
2. what's the right connector to choose to connect cat7 sftp to ip camera ?
some people suggest to connect Cat6a Cat7 Keystone at the end of cat7 cable .
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074PKQ1S1/](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/B074PKQ1S1)
then to use short cat 6 cable to connect between the keystone and ip camera .
is that the correct method ?
Thank you | 2022/09/04 | [
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/79865",
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com",
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/users/85292/"
] | An IP address targets a host on the network layer. Transport layer ports multiplex an L4 protocol within a host (to different processes/services). Both are different things on different layers.
Basically, if you'd repurpose IPv6 addresses (or bits) for host-level multiplexing you'd gain very little but you'd break logic compatibility between IPv4 and IPv6. A transport layer protocol works the same way on any IP version. | You need something to say "this bit of data coming in from the NIC needs to go to this process."
This is different than "which host/network does this data need to go".
IP addresses are processed by your router and potentially other carrier grade routers to determine where to move your data.
Those devices do not have the ability to, for example, reach into your PC and deposit the network data directly into the process's RAM, so they don't need to care which process on the destination wants it.
This is like adding "Give this to your cat at 2pm" as part of the address of a package you want delivered. The people processing the package don't really need to know that, they just need the address, so it's better if you put those instructions inside the package. |
79,865 | I am currently working on connecting ip cameras together .
I am using cat7 sftp cable .
according to the bellow article :
<http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-rj45-and-rj48/>
I understand that :
1. RJ45 is used with UTP cable only .
2. I can't use RJ48 because it will not fit into my NVR and SWITCHES .
I have two questions :
1. I found RJ45 which fit cat7 cable .
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071GXPTVZ/ref=twister\_B09ZYBKJFZ](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/B071GXPTVZ)
How could that happen ? RJ45 should be used with utp cables only ? right ?
2. what's the right connector to choose to connect cat7 sftp to ip camera ?
some people suggest to connect Cat6a Cat7 Keystone at the end of cat7 cable .
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074PKQ1S1/](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/B074PKQ1S1)
then to use short cat 6 cable to connect between the keystone and ip camera .
is that the correct method ?
Thank you | 2022/09/04 | [
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/79865",
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com",
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/users/85292/"
] | An IP address targets a host on the network layer. Transport layer ports multiplex an L4 protocol within a host (to different processes/services). Both are different things on different layers.
Basically, if you'd repurpose IPv6 addresses (or bits) for host-level multiplexing you'd gain very little but you'd break logic compatibility between IPv4 and IPv6. A transport layer protocol works the same way on any IP version. | I think the OP is not so much saying that we should roll ports specifically into the routable address scheme of the internet, but instead why not give every application/process/thread its own unique, routable address?
It's definitely a valid question, and you're not the first person to wonder this - to quote [John Day](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Day_(computer_scientist)) "**Networking is IPC and ONLY IPC**".
Currently, this kind of thing has to be handled at the application layer - if I'm visiting Facebook on my phone over cell signal and then my phone switches over to WiFi, technically my source IP address (and port) has changed completely from Facebook's perspective, and it's only the tokens passed by my browser that are accepted as being the same (application-level) session.
But why stop at doing away with ports? Consider the situation with phone numbers - a phone number is just a poor proxy for specifying the identity of the person you want to speak to. That's why phones have contact lists - phone numbers are just a leaky bit of implementation that we want to ignore as quickly as possible. It's why DNS was invented - the authors of the Internet protocols chose to implement a centralized/hierarchical naming authority system versus your phone's local contact list, but same idea.
What you will want to read about are alternative Internet protocol proposals like John Day's [Recursive Internetwork Architecture (RINA)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_Internetwork_Architecture), where he critiques several historically accumulated design flaws in TCP/IP and the rest of the Internet protocol stack and proposes RINA as a solution.
Specifically to your question, a couple of bullet points out of John Day's critiques are relevant:
* Multihoming: the IP address and port number are too low-level to identify an application in two different networks. DNS doesn't solve this because hostnames must resolve to a single IP address and port number combination, making them aliases instead of identities. Neither does LISP, because i) it still uses the locator, which is an IP address, for routing, and ii) it is based on a false distinction, in that all entities in a scope are located by their identifiers to begin with;[3] in addition, it also introduces scalability problems of its own.[4]
* Mobility: the IP address and port number are also too low-level to identify an application as it moves between networks, resulting in complications for mobile devices such as smartphones. Though a solution, Mobile IP in reality shifts the problem entirely to the Care-of address and introduces an IP tunnel, with attendant complexity.
Whether you agree with him or not (as far as I know this proposal doesn't have a ton of traction), the flaws he points to and solutions he proposes are quite thought provoking. |
79,865 | I am currently working on connecting ip cameras together .
I am using cat7 sftp cable .
according to the bellow article :
<http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-rj45-and-rj48/>
I understand that :
1. RJ45 is used with UTP cable only .
2. I can't use RJ48 because it will not fit into my NVR and SWITCHES .
I have two questions :
1. I found RJ45 which fit cat7 cable .
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071GXPTVZ/ref=twister\_B09ZYBKJFZ](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/B071GXPTVZ)
How could that happen ? RJ45 should be used with utp cables only ? right ?
2. what's the right connector to choose to connect cat7 sftp to ip camera ?
some people suggest to connect Cat6a Cat7 Keystone at the end of cat7 cable .
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074PKQ1S1/](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/B074PKQ1S1)
then to use short cat 6 cable to connect between the keystone and ip camera .
is that the correct method ?
Thank you | 2022/09/04 | [
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/79865",
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com",
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/users/85292/"
] | An IP address targets a host on the network layer. Transport layer ports multiplex an L4 protocol within a host (to different processes/services). Both are different things on different layers.
Basically, if you'd repurpose IPv6 addresses (or bits) for host-level multiplexing you'd gain very little but you'd break logic compatibility between IPv4 and IPv6. A transport layer protocol works the same way on any IP version. | Frame Challenge: Once The ports are folded into IP addresses, you'll be burning IP addresses for a singular device, and run the risk of actually running out of IP addresses.
=============================================================================================================================================================================
Currently in IPv4, the number of valid ports is 65,535 - but 0 - 1023 are restricted or reserved port numbers (Often reserved by specific company processes as well - for example, apparently [Apple QuickTime, and Remote Desktop Protocol](https://www.techtarget.com/searchnetworking/definition/port-number) does.
Natural Address Translation takes advantage of the fact that, for most users, which unrestricted and unreserved port being used generally doesn't matter for the average use case, and doesn't need to be aligned between client and server, so we can re-map them. But what made it required to be a thing that we went with was that IP address blocks were bought by companies in large, "We'll never run out of numbers to assign!", well...numbers. Large enough *to* run out.
On top of this, once machines move around and switch ISPs, then they would run through more IP addresses, and their previous one would have to be *expired* when routing to them.
With a single IP address per machine, you can "keep" that old IP address assigned to that older device, even if it temporarily leaves where it was assigned the IP address from for a short time (More likely to be a mobile machine, or a laptop), and keeping those lower will help.
Granted, 2^128 is a *lot* of IP addresses, but ports will allow us to avoid running into a similar version of the problem with IPv4 thinking it had more than enough IP addresses for everyone and their dog. |
79,865 | I am currently working on connecting ip cameras together .
I am using cat7 sftp cable .
according to the bellow article :
<http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-rj45-and-rj48/>
I understand that :
1. RJ45 is used with UTP cable only .
2. I can't use RJ48 because it will not fit into my NVR and SWITCHES .
I have two questions :
1. I found RJ45 which fit cat7 cable .
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071GXPTVZ/ref=twister\_B09ZYBKJFZ](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/B071GXPTVZ)
How could that happen ? RJ45 should be used with utp cables only ? right ?
2. what's the right connector to choose to connect cat7 sftp to ip camera ?
some people suggest to connect Cat6a Cat7 Keystone at the end of cat7 cable .
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074PKQ1S1/](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/B074PKQ1S1)
then to use short cat 6 cable to connect between the keystone and ip camera .
is that the correct method ?
Thank you | 2022/09/04 | [
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/79865",
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com",
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/users/85292/"
] | I think the OP is not so much saying that we should roll ports specifically into the routable address scheme of the internet, but instead why not give every application/process/thread its own unique, routable address?
It's definitely a valid question, and you're not the first person to wonder this - to quote [John Day](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Day_(computer_scientist)) "**Networking is IPC and ONLY IPC**".
Currently, this kind of thing has to be handled at the application layer - if I'm visiting Facebook on my phone over cell signal and then my phone switches over to WiFi, technically my source IP address (and port) has changed completely from Facebook's perspective, and it's only the tokens passed by my browser that are accepted as being the same (application-level) session.
But why stop at doing away with ports? Consider the situation with phone numbers - a phone number is just a poor proxy for specifying the identity of the person you want to speak to. That's why phones have contact lists - phone numbers are just a leaky bit of implementation that we want to ignore as quickly as possible. It's why DNS was invented - the authors of the Internet protocols chose to implement a centralized/hierarchical naming authority system versus your phone's local contact list, but same idea.
What you will want to read about are alternative Internet protocol proposals like John Day's [Recursive Internetwork Architecture (RINA)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_Internetwork_Architecture), where he critiques several historically accumulated design flaws in TCP/IP and the rest of the Internet protocol stack and proposes RINA as a solution.
Specifically to your question, a couple of bullet points out of John Day's critiques are relevant:
* Multihoming: the IP address and port number are too low-level to identify an application in two different networks. DNS doesn't solve this because hostnames must resolve to a single IP address and port number combination, making them aliases instead of identities. Neither does LISP, because i) it still uses the locator, which is an IP address, for routing, and ii) it is based on a false distinction, in that all entities in a scope are located by their identifiers to begin with;[3] in addition, it also introduces scalability problems of its own.[4]
* Mobility: the IP address and port number are also too low-level to identify an application as it moves between networks, resulting in complications for mobile devices such as smartphones. Though a solution, Mobile IP in reality shifts the problem entirely to the Care-of address and introduces an IP tunnel, with attendant complexity.
Whether you agree with him or not (as far as I know this proposal doesn't have a ton of traction), the flaws he points to and solutions he proposes are quite thought provoking. | You need something to say "this bit of data coming in from the NIC needs to go to this process."
This is different than "which host/network does this data need to go".
IP addresses are processed by your router and potentially other carrier grade routers to determine where to move your data.
Those devices do not have the ability to, for example, reach into your PC and deposit the network data directly into the process's RAM, so they don't need to care which process on the destination wants it.
This is like adding "Give this to your cat at 2pm" as part of the address of a package you want delivered. The people processing the package don't really need to know that, they just need the address, so it's better if you put those instructions inside the package. |
79,865 | I am currently working on connecting ip cameras together .
I am using cat7 sftp cable .
according to the bellow article :
<http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-rj45-and-rj48/>
I understand that :
1. RJ45 is used with UTP cable only .
2. I can't use RJ48 because it will not fit into my NVR and SWITCHES .
I have two questions :
1. I found RJ45 which fit cat7 cable .
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071GXPTVZ/ref=twister\_B09ZYBKJFZ](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/B071GXPTVZ)
How could that happen ? RJ45 should be used with utp cables only ? right ?
2. what's the right connector to choose to connect cat7 sftp to ip camera ?
some people suggest to connect Cat6a Cat7 Keystone at the end of cat7 cable .
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074PKQ1S1/](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/B074PKQ1S1)
then to use short cat 6 cable to connect between the keystone and ip camera .
is that the correct method ?
Thank you | 2022/09/04 | [
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/79865",
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com",
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/users/85292/"
] | You need something to say "this bit of data coming in from the NIC needs to go to this process."
This is different than "which host/network does this data need to go".
IP addresses are processed by your router and potentially other carrier grade routers to determine where to move your data.
Those devices do not have the ability to, for example, reach into your PC and deposit the network data directly into the process's RAM, so they don't need to care which process on the destination wants it.
This is like adding "Give this to your cat at 2pm" as part of the address of a package you want delivered. The people processing the package don't really need to know that, they just need the address, so it's better if you put those instructions inside the package. | Frame Challenge: Once The ports are folded into IP addresses, you'll be burning IP addresses for a singular device, and run the risk of actually running out of IP addresses.
=============================================================================================================================================================================
Currently in IPv4, the number of valid ports is 65,535 - but 0 - 1023 are restricted or reserved port numbers (Often reserved by specific company processes as well - for example, apparently [Apple QuickTime, and Remote Desktop Protocol](https://www.techtarget.com/searchnetworking/definition/port-number) does.
Natural Address Translation takes advantage of the fact that, for most users, which unrestricted and unreserved port being used generally doesn't matter for the average use case, and doesn't need to be aligned between client and server, so we can re-map them. But what made it required to be a thing that we went with was that IP address blocks were bought by companies in large, "We'll never run out of numbers to assign!", well...numbers. Large enough *to* run out.
On top of this, once machines move around and switch ISPs, then they would run through more IP addresses, and their previous one would have to be *expired* when routing to them.
With a single IP address per machine, you can "keep" that old IP address assigned to that older device, even if it temporarily leaves where it was assigned the IP address from for a short time (More likely to be a mobile machine, or a laptop), and keeping those lower will help.
Granted, 2^128 is a *lot* of IP addresses, but ports will allow us to avoid running into a similar version of the problem with IPv4 thinking it had more than enough IP addresses for everyone and their dog. |
79,865 | I am currently working on connecting ip cameras together .
I am using cat7 sftp cable .
according to the bellow article :
<http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-rj45-and-rj48/>
I understand that :
1. RJ45 is used with UTP cable only .
2. I can't use RJ48 because it will not fit into my NVR and SWITCHES .
I have two questions :
1. I found RJ45 which fit cat7 cable .
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071GXPTVZ/ref=twister\_B09ZYBKJFZ](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/B071GXPTVZ)
How could that happen ? RJ45 should be used with utp cables only ? right ?
2. what's the right connector to choose to connect cat7 sftp to ip camera ?
some people suggest to connect Cat6a Cat7 Keystone at the end of cat7 cable .
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074PKQ1S1/](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/B074PKQ1S1)
then to use short cat 6 cable to connect between the keystone and ip camera .
is that the correct method ?
Thank you | 2022/09/04 | [
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/79865",
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com",
"https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/users/85292/"
] | I think the OP is not so much saying that we should roll ports specifically into the routable address scheme of the internet, but instead why not give every application/process/thread its own unique, routable address?
It's definitely a valid question, and you're not the first person to wonder this - to quote [John Day](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Day_(computer_scientist)) "**Networking is IPC and ONLY IPC**".
Currently, this kind of thing has to be handled at the application layer - if I'm visiting Facebook on my phone over cell signal and then my phone switches over to WiFi, technically my source IP address (and port) has changed completely from Facebook's perspective, and it's only the tokens passed by my browser that are accepted as being the same (application-level) session.
But why stop at doing away with ports? Consider the situation with phone numbers - a phone number is just a poor proxy for specifying the identity of the person you want to speak to. That's why phones have contact lists - phone numbers are just a leaky bit of implementation that we want to ignore as quickly as possible. It's why DNS was invented - the authors of the Internet protocols chose to implement a centralized/hierarchical naming authority system versus your phone's local contact list, but same idea.
What you will want to read about are alternative Internet protocol proposals like John Day's [Recursive Internetwork Architecture (RINA)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_Internetwork_Architecture), where he critiques several historically accumulated design flaws in TCP/IP and the rest of the Internet protocol stack and proposes RINA as a solution.
Specifically to your question, a couple of bullet points out of John Day's critiques are relevant:
* Multihoming: the IP address and port number are too low-level to identify an application in two different networks. DNS doesn't solve this because hostnames must resolve to a single IP address and port number combination, making them aliases instead of identities. Neither does LISP, because i) it still uses the locator, which is an IP address, for routing, and ii) it is based on a false distinction, in that all entities in a scope are located by their identifiers to begin with;[3] in addition, it also introduces scalability problems of its own.[4]
* Mobility: the IP address and port number are also too low-level to identify an application as it moves between networks, resulting in complications for mobile devices such as smartphones. Though a solution, Mobile IP in reality shifts the problem entirely to the Care-of address and introduces an IP tunnel, with attendant complexity.
Whether you agree with him or not (as far as I know this proposal doesn't have a ton of traction), the flaws he points to and solutions he proposes are quite thought provoking. | Frame Challenge: Once The ports are folded into IP addresses, you'll be burning IP addresses for a singular device, and run the risk of actually running out of IP addresses.
=============================================================================================================================================================================
Currently in IPv4, the number of valid ports is 65,535 - but 0 - 1023 are restricted or reserved port numbers (Often reserved by specific company processes as well - for example, apparently [Apple QuickTime, and Remote Desktop Protocol](https://www.techtarget.com/searchnetworking/definition/port-number) does.
Natural Address Translation takes advantage of the fact that, for most users, which unrestricted and unreserved port being used generally doesn't matter for the average use case, and doesn't need to be aligned between client and server, so we can re-map them. But what made it required to be a thing that we went with was that IP address blocks were bought by companies in large, "We'll never run out of numbers to assign!", well...numbers. Large enough *to* run out.
On top of this, once machines move around and switch ISPs, then they would run through more IP addresses, and their previous one would have to be *expired* when routing to them.
With a single IP address per machine, you can "keep" that old IP address assigned to that older device, even if it temporarily leaves where it was assigned the IP address from for a short time (More likely to be a mobile machine, or a laptop), and keeping those lower will help.
Granted, 2^128 is a *lot* of IP addresses, but ports will allow us to avoid running into a similar version of the problem with IPv4 thinking it had more than enough IP addresses for everyone and their dog. |
120,837 | I've been working at a newly established firm for over a month and I haven't signed a contract yet.
HR kept telling me that they needed time to prepare contracts for everyone, but I've asked almost everyone else in my department and they've all said that they signed their contracts 2-3 weeks ago.
I asked the HR girl again and she said "Wow, you haven't signed your contract yet? Ok let me check and see what happened".
I agreed to a starting salary until signing the contract, and was told that after signing the contract the salary would be set depending on my position.
The firm has come together in a somewhat experimental way, allowing people to fall into their positions naturally.
Now that I've been with the firm for over a month, is it to my advantage or theirs?
Can I leverage the fact that I'm now established and comfortable in my position (i.e. they would need a few weeks to train a replacement to my level) and can I use this to negotiate a higher salary?
Or is it to their advantage? | 2018/10/15 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/120837",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/-1/"
] | >
> Can I leverage the fact that I'm now established and comfortable in my
> position (i.e. they would need a few weeks to train a replacement to
> my level) and can I use this to negotiate a higher salary?
>
>
>
You can always try. It doesn't seem like much in the way of leverage to me.
You already agreed to a pre-contract starting salary and agreed that your salary would be set depending on your position.
You will be going back on your word if you use your "leverage". You get to decide if that the way you want to come across in your new position in a new company.
It's not something I would do, but you could certainly try. | Given the model is allowing people to fall into their positions naturally your ability to leverage really depends on your performance over this first month. If you have demonstrated that you are performing at a leadership level then negotiating a leadership title and compensation should be natural. If you have performed at a junior level then trying to negotiate a leadership title will be very difficult. |
120,837 | I've been working at a newly established firm for over a month and I haven't signed a contract yet.
HR kept telling me that they needed time to prepare contracts for everyone, but I've asked almost everyone else in my department and they've all said that they signed their contracts 2-3 weeks ago.
I asked the HR girl again and she said "Wow, you haven't signed your contract yet? Ok let me check and see what happened".
I agreed to a starting salary until signing the contract, and was told that after signing the contract the salary would be set depending on my position.
The firm has come together in a somewhat experimental way, allowing people to fall into their positions naturally.
Now that I've been with the firm for over a month, is it to my advantage or theirs?
Can I leverage the fact that I'm now established and comfortable in my position (i.e. they would need a few weeks to train a replacement to my level) and can I use this to negotiate a higher salary?
Or is it to their advantage? | 2018/10/15 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/120837",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/-1/"
] | >
> Can I leverage the fact that I'm now established and comfortable in my
> position (i.e. they would need a few weeks to train a replacement to
> my level) and can I use this to negotiate a higher salary?
>
>
>
You can always try. It doesn't seem like much in the way of leverage to me.
You already agreed to a pre-contract starting salary and agreed that your salary would be set depending on your position.
You will be going back on your word if you use your "leverage". You get to decide if that the way you want to come across in your new position in a new company.
It's not something I would do, but you could certainly try. | Not having a written contract is usually bad for both sides, but almost always worse for the employee than for the employer.
The reason is that when there is a disagreement about how much salary they need to pay the employee, then the employer is in a much better position. They can withhold payment, but the employee can not undo their work. Also, the employee is usually more dependent on their monthly salary than the employer is on their work. So the employer can bide time until the employee runs out of money and must agree to a detrimental settlement to pay their rent.
So bottom line, you want a written contract as soon as possible. You usually should not even start working without one. |
120,837 | I've been working at a newly established firm for over a month and I haven't signed a contract yet.
HR kept telling me that they needed time to prepare contracts for everyone, but I've asked almost everyone else in my department and they've all said that they signed their contracts 2-3 weeks ago.
I asked the HR girl again and she said "Wow, you haven't signed your contract yet? Ok let me check and see what happened".
I agreed to a starting salary until signing the contract, and was told that after signing the contract the salary would be set depending on my position.
The firm has come together in a somewhat experimental way, allowing people to fall into their positions naturally.
Now that I've been with the firm for over a month, is it to my advantage or theirs?
Can I leverage the fact that I'm now established and comfortable in my position (i.e. they would need a few weeks to train a replacement to my level) and can I use this to negotiate a higher salary?
Or is it to their advantage? | 2018/10/15 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/120837",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/-1/"
] | That said however if you're going to cut your losses on a recent hire the sooner the better and a month really isn't that long in the grand scheme of things and for a company that hasn't even finalised the exact role the candidate will be performing yet those few weeks of taining will be as nothing. So in short you really don't have much (if any) leverage and I would say that if anything they are in a better than average position to just drop you if they percieve you as looking to hold them to any kind of "ransom".
**PS:** This whole model of making the staffing up as they go along sounds super weird to me. Sounds like they have the organisational/planning skills of a drunken blindfolded donkey! | Given the model is allowing people to fall into their positions naturally your ability to leverage really depends on your performance over this first month. If you have demonstrated that you are performing at a leadership level then negotiating a leadership title and compensation should be natural. If you have performed at a junior level then trying to negotiate a leadership title will be very difficult. |
120,837 | I've been working at a newly established firm for over a month and I haven't signed a contract yet.
HR kept telling me that they needed time to prepare contracts for everyone, but I've asked almost everyone else in my department and they've all said that they signed their contracts 2-3 weeks ago.
I asked the HR girl again and she said "Wow, you haven't signed your contract yet? Ok let me check and see what happened".
I agreed to a starting salary until signing the contract, and was told that after signing the contract the salary would be set depending on my position.
The firm has come together in a somewhat experimental way, allowing people to fall into their positions naturally.
Now that I've been with the firm for over a month, is it to my advantage or theirs?
Can I leverage the fact that I'm now established and comfortable in my position (i.e. they would need a few weeks to train a replacement to my level) and can I use this to negotiate a higher salary?
Or is it to their advantage? | 2018/10/15 | [
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/120837",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com",
"https://workplace.stackexchange.com/users/-1/"
] | That said however if you're going to cut your losses on a recent hire the sooner the better and a month really isn't that long in the grand scheme of things and for a company that hasn't even finalised the exact role the candidate will be performing yet those few weeks of taining will be as nothing. So in short you really don't have much (if any) leverage and I would say that if anything they are in a better than average position to just drop you if they percieve you as looking to hold them to any kind of "ransom".
**PS:** This whole model of making the staffing up as they go along sounds super weird to me. Sounds like they have the organisational/planning skills of a drunken blindfolded donkey! | Not having a written contract is usually bad for both sides, but almost always worse for the employee than for the employer.
The reason is that when there is a disagreement about how much salary they need to pay the employee, then the employer is in a much better position. They can withhold payment, but the employee can not undo their work. Also, the employee is usually more dependent on their monthly salary than the employer is on their work. So the employer can bide time until the employee runs out of money and must agree to a detrimental settlement to pay their rent.
So bottom line, you want a written contract as soon as possible. You usually should not even start working without one. |
703,767 | Excel 2013 often complains that "We couldn't free up space on the clipboard. Another program might be using it right now" when I'm trying to copy cells.
Some [say](http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2013_release-excel/we-couldnt-free-up-space-on-the-clipboard-another/93ffe338-d07a-4e2d-bc07-49806f811dca) it might be caused by Zone Alarm or Bing Desktop. I have none of them. I'm running Windows 7, so I don't have [clipbrd.exe](https://superuser.com/q/531984/116475). How can I know which is the other program Excel is complaining about?
 | 2014/01/19 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/703767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/116475/"
] | I too was seeing this very frustrating error. Since making the below change though it appears that the problem is resolved.
Note that I am not running any of the programs (Bing Desktop etc.) that are commonly attributed to this issue, even by Microsoft themselves.
It seems this might be caused by the Office Clipboard, the need for which I have never been quite sure of since it appeared in Office many years ago. Turning off the notification or recognition for Office Clipboard seems to do the trick.
Open up the clipboard options by clicking the expansion arrow on the ribbon in the home section (this is Excel, but other Office apps should be identical or very similar).
Open the Options dialog at the bottom left of the pane that opens up. Select '*Collect Without Showing Office Clipboard*' and close the pane.
Hopefully the issue is now resolved and you can copy and paste without errors or the cell focus being lost.
Edit: It appears, anecdotally at least, that this may be related to running the 32-bit version of Office on a 64-bit OS. That's certainly what I'm doing and many others seems to be in the same situation. Be interesting to see if this holds true. | This also happens if any other program is monitoring the clipboard. For example, I had free download manager and it was monitoring the clipboard. When I switched this option off, the problem went away in Excel 2013.
And I do not have bing desktop nor do I have zone alarm. |
703,767 | Excel 2013 often complains that "We couldn't free up space on the clipboard. Another program might be using it right now" when I'm trying to copy cells.
Some [say](http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2013_release-excel/we-couldnt-free-up-space-on-the-clipboard-another/93ffe338-d07a-4e2d-bc07-49806f811dca) it might be caused by Zone Alarm or Bing Desktop. I have none of them. I'm running Windows 7, so I don't have [clipbrd.exe](https://superuser.com/q/531984/116475). How can I know which is the other program Excel is complaining about?
 | 2014/01/19 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/703767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/116475/"
] | This also happens if any other program is monitoring the clipboard. For example, I had free download manager and it was monitoring the clipboard. When I switched this option off, the problem went away in Excel 2013.
And I do not have bing desktop nor do I have zone alarm. | I had light downloader running which was monitoring the clipboard. I disabled monitoring of the clipboard and wahlaah, no more error. |
703,767 | Excel 2013 often complains that "We couldn't free up space on the clipboard. Another program might be using it right now" when I'm trying to copy cells.
Some [say](http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2013_release-excel/we-couldnt-free-up-space-on-the-clipboard-another/93ffe338-d07a-4e2d-bc07-49806f811dca) it might be caused by Zone Alarm or Bing Desktop. I have none of them. I'm running Windows 7, so I don't have [clipbrd.exe](https://superuser.com/q/531984/116475). How can I know which is the other program Excel is complaining about?
 | 2014/01/19 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/703767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/116475/"
] | I too was seeing this very frustrating error. Since making the below change though it appears that the problem is resolved.
Note that I am not running any of the programs (Bing Desktop etc.) that are commonly attributed to this issue, even by Microsoft themselves.
It seems this might be caused by the Office Clipboard, the need for which I have never been quite sure of since it appeared in Office many years ago. Turning off the notification or recognition for Office Clipboard seems to do the trick.
Open up the clipboard options by clicking the expansion arrow on the ribbon in the home section (this is Excel, but other Office apps should be identical or very similar).
Open the Options dialog at the bottom left of the pane that opens up. Select '*Collect Without Showing Office Clipboard*' and close the pane.
Hopefully the issue is now resolved and you can copy and paste without errors or the cell focus being lost.
Edit: It appears, anecdotally at least, that this may be related to running the 32-bit version of Office on a 64-bit OS. That's certainly what I'm doing and many others seems to be in the same situation. Be interesting to see if this holds true. | I had light downloader running which was monitoring the clipboard. I disabled monitoring of the clipboard and wahlaah, no more error. |
703,767 | Excel 2013 often complains that "We couldn't free up space on the clipboard. Another program might be using it right now" when I'm trying to copy cells.
Some [say](http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2013_release-excel/we-couldnt-free-up-space-on-the-clipboard-another/93ffe338-d07a-4e2d-bc07-49806f811dca) it might be caused by Zone Alarm or Bing Desktop. I have none of them. I'm running Windows 7, so I don't have [clipbrd.exe](https://superuser.com/q/531984/116475). How can I know which is the other program Excel is complaining about?
 | 2014/01/19 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/703767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/116475/"
] | I too was seeing this very frustrating error. Since making the below change though it appears that the problem is resolved.
Note that I am not running any of the programs (Bing Desktop etc.) that are commonly attributed to this issue, even by Microsoft themselves.
It seems this might be caused by the Office Clipboard, the need for which I have never been quite sure of since it appeared in Office many years ago. Turning off the notification or recognition for Office Clipboard seems to do the trick.
Open up the clipboard options by clicking the expansion arrow on the ribbon in the home section (this is Excel, but other Office apps should be identical or very similar).
Open the Options dialog at the bottom left of the pane that opens up. Select '*Collect Without Showing Office Clipboard*' and close the pane.
Hopefully the issue is now resolved and you can copy and paste without errors or the cell focus being lost.
Edit: It appears, anecdotally at least, that this may be related to running the 32-bit version of Office on a 64-bit OS. That's certainly what I'm doing and many others seems to be in the same situation. Be interesting to see if this holds true. | Hope this helps someone else. I have a user a HP Z820 workstation with windows 7 Professional sp1, 32GB RAM, 1TB drive with ~712GB free space, Office 2013 sp1. Yes, it’s a workstation but this user runs a lot of programs at once including large excel spreadsheets with pivot tables. They recently started having this error when trying to drag data in an excel cell to another cell. They figured out that if Outlook is not running then the error does not come up. But that is not workable as there is a need for the user to have outlook, word, and excel to be opened at the same time. I figured some other app was interfering with the clipboard since this error was not happening from day one when I installed office. I started to close programs one at a time and test after each. The last program I closed that allowed outlook to be open and not get the error message in excel was skitch. The user had installed skitch to allow them to capture screens and bring it into Evernote from other applications. And apparently the combination of Outlook and Skitch causes Excel to complain when you try to drag cell content to another cell. I could reproduce this every time. So if you have office 2013 sp1 and you have both outlook and excel running with skitch running in the background and you get the error when dragging cells in excel, simply go to the system tray area and kill skitch. |
703,767 | Excel 2013 often complains that "We couldn't free up space on the clipboard. Another program might be using it right now" when I'm trying to copy cells.
Some [say](http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2013_release-excel/we-couldnt-free-up-space-on-the-clipboard-another/93ffe338-d07a-4e2d-bc07-49806f811dca) it might be caused by Zone Alarm or Bing Desktop. I have none of them. I'm running Windows 7, so I don't have [clipbrd.exe](https://superuser.com/q/531984/116475). How can I know which is the other program Excel is complaining about?
 | 2014/01/19 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/703767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/116475/"
] | I too was seeing this very frustrating error. Since making the below change though it appears that the problem is resolved.
Note that I am not running any of the programs (Bing Desktop etc.) that are commonly attributed to this issue, even by Microsoft themselves.
It seems this might be caused by the Office Clipboard, the need for which I have never been quite sure of since it appeared in Office many years ago. Turning off the notification or recognition for Office Clipboard seems to do the trick.
Open up the clipboard options by clicking the expansion arrow on the ribbon in the home section (this is Excel, but other Office apps should be identical or very similar).
Open the Options dialog at the bottom left of the pane that opens up. Select '*Collect Without Showing Office Clipboard*' and close the pane.
Hopefully the issue is now resolved and you can copy and paste without errors or the cell focus being lost.
Edit: It appears, anecdotally at least, that this may be related to running the 32-bit version of Office on a 64-bit OS. That's certainly what I'm doing and many others seems to be in the same situation. Be interesting to see if this holds true. | This is an old question but I thought I'd post my experiences with it so it may help others.
I am also having this error but I finally figured it out. I went through the task manager and started to kill all process and testing drag/drop. Once I killed the Dropbox process, the error went away. So it seems if you have Dropbox running, it messes with the clipboard.
This helped me so maybe it will help someone else. I'm not sure if there's a newer version of the Dropbox windows 8 app that doesnt cause this error. but for now I'm just not going to run Dropbox.
I ended up having to uninstall it for the issue to go away.
EDIT: Seems the issue is back. This is getting real frustrating.... |
703,767 | Excel 2013 often complains that "We couldn't free up space on the clipboard. Another program might be using it right now" when I'm trying to copy cells.
Some [say](http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2013_release-excel/we-couldnt-free-up-space-on-the-clipboard-another/93ffe338-d07a-4e2d-bc07-49806f811dca) it might be caused by Zone Alarm or Bing Desktop. I have none of them. I'm running Windows 7, so I don't have [clipbrd.exe](https://superuser.com/q/531984/116475). How can I know which is the other program Excel is complaining about?
 | 2014/01/19 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/703767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/116475/"
] | Hope this helps someone else. I have a user a HP Z820 workstation with windows 7 Professional sp1, 32GB RAM, 1TB drive with ~712GB free space, Office 2013 sp1. Yes, it’s a workstation but this user runs a lot of programs at once including large excel spreadsheets with pivot tables. They recently started having this error when trying to drag data in an excel cell to another cell. They figured out that if Outlook is not running then the error does not come up. But that is not workable as there is a need for the user to have outlook, word, and excel to be opened at the same time. I figured some other app was interfering with the clipboard since this error was not happening from day one when I installed office. I started to close programs one at a time and test after each. The last program I closed that allowed outlook to be open and not get the error message in excel was skitch. The user had installed skitch to allow them to capture screens and bring it into Evernote from other applications. And apparently the combination of Outlook and Skitch causes Excel to complain when you try to drag cell content to another cell. I could reproduce this every time. So if you have office 2013 sp1 and you have both outlook and excel running with skitch running in the background and you get the error when dragging cells in excel, simply go to the system tray area and kill skitch. | Check if uninstalling Bing Desktop helps. Microsoft has identified that product as (one possible) cause of this error. See here: <http://blogs.technet.com/b/the_microsoft_excel_support_team_blog/archive/2013/01/25/quot-we-couldn-t-free-up-space-on-the-clipboard-another-program-might-be-using-it-right-now-quot.aspx> |
703,767 | Excel 2013 often complains that "We couldn't free up space on the clipboard. Another program might be using it right now" when I'm trying to copy cells.
Some [say](http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2013_release-excel/we-couldnt-free-up-space-on-the-clipboard-another/93ffe338-d07a-4e2d-bc07-49806f811dca) it might be caused by Zone Alarm or Bing Desktop. I have none of them. I'm running Windows 7, so I don't have [clipbrd.exe](https://superuser.com/q/531984/116475). How can I know which is the other program Excel is complaining about?
 | 2014/01/19 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/703767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/116475/"
] | Hope this helps someone else. I have a user a HP Z820 workstation with windows 7 Professional sp1, 32GB RAM, 1TB drive with ~712GB free space, Office 2013 sp1. Yes, it’s a workstation but this user runs a lot of programs at once including large excel spreadsheets with pivot tables. They recently started having this error when trying to drag data in an excel cell to another cell. They figured out that if Outlook is not running then the error does not come up. But that is not workable as there is a need for the user to have outlook, word, and excel to be opened at the same time. I figured some other app was interfering with the clipboard since this error was not happening from day one when I installed office. I started to close programs one at a time and test after each. The last program I closed that allowed outlook to be open and not get the error message in excel was skitch. The user had installed skitch to allow them to capture screens and bring it into Evernote from other applications. And apparently the combination of Outlook and Skitch causes Excel to complain when you try to drag cell content to another cell. I could reproduce this every time. So if you have office 2013 sp1 and you have both outlook and excel running with skitch running in the background and you get the error when dragging cells in excel, simply go to the system tray area and kill skitch. | I had light downloader running which was monitoring the clipboard. I disabled monitoring of the clipboard and wahlaah, no more error. |
703,767 | Excel 2013 often complains that "We couldn't free up space on the clipboard. Another program might be using it right now" when I'm trying to copy cells.
Some [say](http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2013_release-excel/we-couldnt-free-up-space-on-the-clipboard-another/93ffe338-d07a-4e2d-bc07-49806f811dca) it might be caused by Zone Alarm or Bing Desktop. I have none of them. I'm running Windows 7, so I don't have [clipbrd.exe](https://superuser.com/q/531984/116475). How can I know which is the other program Excel is complaining about?
 | 2014/01/19 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/703767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/116475/"
] | This also happens if any other program is monitoring the clipboard. For example, I had free download manager and it was monitoring the clipboard. When I switched this option off, the problem went away in Excel 2013.
And I do not have bing desktop nor do I have zone alarm. | This is an old question but I thought I'd post my experiences with it so it may help others.
I am also having this error but I finally figured it out. I went through the task manager and started to kill all process and testing drag/drop. Once I killed the Dropbox process, the error went away. So it seems if you have Dropbox running, it messes with the clipboard.
This helped me so maybe it will help someone else. I'm not sure if there's a newer version of the Dropbox windows 8 app that doesnt cause this error. but for now I'm just not going to run Dropbox.
I ended up having to uninstall it for the issue to go away.
EDIT: Seems the issue is back. This is getting real frustrating.... |
703,767 | Excel 2013 often complains that "We couldn't free up space on the clipboard. Another program might be using it right now" when I'm trying to copy cells.
Some [say](http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2013_release-excel/we-couldnt-free-up-space-on-the-clipboard-another/93ffe338-d07a-4e2d-bc07-49806f811dca) it might be caused by Zone Alarm or Bing Desktop. I have none of them. I'm running Windows 7, so I don't have [clipbrd.exe](https://superuser.com/q/531984/116475). How can I know which is the other program Excel is complaining about?
 | 2014/01/19 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/703767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/116475/"
] | Hope this helps someone else. I have a user a HP Z820 workstation with windows 7 Professional sp1, 32GB RAM, 1TB drive with ~712GB free space, Office 2013 sp1. Yes, it’s a workstation but this user runs a lot of programs at once including large excel spreadsheets with pivot tables. They recently started having this error when trying to drag data in an excel cell to another cell. They figured out that if Outlook is not running then the error does not come up. But that is not workable as there is a need for the user to have outlook, word, and excel to be opened at the same time. I figured some other app was interfering with the clipboard since this error was not happening from day one when I installed office. I started to close programs one at a time and test after each. The last program I closed that allowed outlook to be open and not get the error message in excel was skitch. The user had installed skitch to allow them to capture screens and bring it into Evernote from other applications. And apparently the combination of Outlook and Skitch causes Excel to complain when you try to drag cell content to another cell. I could reproduce this every time. So if you have office 2013 sp1 and you have both outlook and excel running with skitch running in the background and you get the error when dragging cells in excel, simply go to the system tray area and kill skitch. | This is an old question but I thought I'd post my experiences with it so it may help others.
I am also having this error but I finally figured it out. I went through the task manager and started to kill all process and testing drag/drop. Once I killed the Dropbox process, the error went away. So it seems if you have Dropbox running, it messes with the clipboard.
This helped me so maybe it will help someone else. I'm not sure if there's a newer version of the Dropbox windows 8 app that doesnt cause this error. but for now I'm just not going to run Dropbox.
I ended up having to uninstall it for the issue to go away.
EDIT: Seems the issue is back. This is getting real frustrating.... |
703,767 | Excel 2013 often complains that "We couldn't free up space on the clipboard. Another program might be using it right now" when I'm trying to copy cells.
Some [say](http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2013_release-excel/we-couldnt-free-up-space-on-the-clipboard-another/93ffe338-d07a-4e2d-bc07-49806f811dca) it might be caused by Zone Alarm or Bing Desktop. I have none of them. I'm running Windows 7, so I don't have [clipbrd.exe](https://superuser.com/q/531984/116475). How can I know which is the other program Excel is complaining about?
 | 2014/01/19 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/703767",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/116475/"
] | This also happens if any other program is monitoring the clipboard. For example, I had free download manager and it was monitoring the clipboard. When I switched this option off, the problem went away in Excel 2013.
And I do not have bing desktop nor do I have zone alarm. | Check if uninstalling Bing Desktop helps. Microsoft has identified that product as (one possible) cause of this error. See here: <http://blogs.technet.com/b/the_microsoft_excel_support_team_blog/archive/2013/01/25/quot-we-couldn-t-free-up-space-on-the-clipboard-another-program-might-be-using-it-right-now-quot.aspx> |
132,867 | [](https://i.stack.imgur.com/vXXGd.png)
How can I smooth all crown but don't smooth the top of the crown? I did a subdivision surface, but this didn't work. All crown became smooth and changed form. | 2019/02/25 | [
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/132867",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/users/69756/"
] | Here is a way to make a crown, maybe there's a simpler?
* Build a basic cube, delete its two side faces, give it a *Mirror* modifier.
* Drag up its central edge, add 3 vertical edge loops.
* Add some additional edge loops close to the angles so that it will sharp them later.
* Give your object an *Array* modifier. Choose a *Count* of 4. Enable the *Merge* option.
* Give your object a *Simple Deform* modifier / *Bend* mode. Choose an *Angle* value of 360°. If it doesn't turn around the Z axis, apply the rotation of your object.
* At last, give your object a *Subsurf* modifier (and press the *Smooth Shading* button on the *Tools* panel).
* Move a bit your edges with `G``G` to sharp the crest and the low of the crown.
* Apply the modifiers (except the *Subsurf* if possible), remove the doubles (where the 360° joint happens).
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/ElpNJ.jpg) | Add in more loop cuts on the subsurf mod. That should do it. I take it that smooth shading doesn't work? |
132,867 | [](https://i.stack.imgur.com/vXXGd.png)
How can I smooth all crown but don't smooth the top of the crown? I did a subdivision surface, but this didn't work. All crown became smooth and changed form. | 2019/02/25 | [
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/132867",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/users/69756/"
] | Another approach:
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/SIHPD.jpg)
* Create a Z-scaled, subduvided UV sphere, and a capless cylinder, at the origin.
* Give the cylinder a few horizontal loops, and assign it a Srinkwrap modifier to the sphere; drag it down to a good-looking position in Z
* Select the N,S,E,W vertices on the top loop of the Cylinder, and with Proportional Edit / Linear falloff, drag the points up in Z
* Proportional off, Median Pivot Point, scale the bottom loop to 0 in Z
* Assign a Solidify modifier, with 'Crease' set to 1 for Inner, Outer, and Rim.
The crease will hold against any subdivision.. after applying the modifiers you can extrude down the cylindrical headband, etc. (You might not even need subdivision, maybe AutoSmooth will do..)
EDIT: .... But as moonboots points out, it's worth taking a little time to put in a bevel after applying the Solidify and a level of subdivision around the rims, and then across the peaks and troughs, as shown:
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/DIBMy.jpg) | Add in more loop cuts on the subsurf mod. That should do it. I take it that smooth shading doesn't work? |
132,867 | [](https://i.stack.imgur.com/vXXGd.png)
How can I smooth all crown but don't smooth the top of the crown? I did a subdivision surface, but this didn't work. All crown became smooth and changed form. | 2019/02/25 | [
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/132867",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/users/69756/"
] | add a subsurface modifier, select some edges and crease the edges
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/OtpAU.png)
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/XxlfS.png)
it's a little easier of you crease the entire thing, then select a few edges and reduce the crease where you want it softer or rounder.
creasing is quite versatile :D
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/lor0L.png) | Add in more loop cuts on the subsurf mod. That should do it. I take it that smooth shading doesn't work? |
132,867 | [](https://i.stack.imgur.com/vXXGd.png)
How can I smooth all crown but don't smooth the top of the crown? I did a subdivision surface, but this didn't work. All crown became smooth and changed form. | 2019/02/25 | [
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/132867",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/users/69756/"
] | Just above the Mean Crease setting that kei suggested is the Mean Bevel Weight (for edges, not the one for vertices). My usual method is to set the edges Mean Bevel Weight to 1.0, then add a Bevel modifier, making sure it's above the Subdivision Surface modifier in the modifier stack, and in the Bevel modifier making sure the Weight button is selected, not None. Adjust the Bevel modifier's other settings, Width and Segments, to taste; Segments is usually 3 for me.
This allows you to control the rounding / beveling of those specific edges separately from whatever the Subdivision Surface modifier does.
Alternatively, instead of using Mean Bevel Weight you could use a vertex group.
Sometimes you simply want the "obvious" edges not subdivided by the Subdivision Surface modifier, for example with a cylinder I want the top and bottom edges left alone. In that case I can select the Bevel modifier's Angle button, changing the Angle value to 80 or whatever if necessary. Using this method, if you add a cylinder and set the number of vertices (sides) to 6, it will still turn into a cylinder when you add the Subdivision Surface and you have the Levels high enough (3 or more). | Add in more loop cuts on the subsurf mod. That should do it. I take it that smooth shading doesn't work? |
132,867 | [](https://i.stack.imgur.com/vXXGd.png)
How can I smooth all crown but don't smooth the top of the crown? I did a subdivision surface, but this didn't work. All crown became smooth and changed form. | 2019/02/25 | [
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/132867",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/users/69756/"
] | Another approach:
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/SIHPD.jpg)
* Create a Z-scaled, subduvided UV sphere, and a capless cylinder, at the origin.
* Give the cylinder a few horizontal loops, and assign it a Srinkwrap modifier to the sphere; drag it down to a good-looking position in Z
* Select the N,S,E,W vertices on the top loop of the Cylinder, and with Proportional Edit / Linear falloff, drag the points up in Z
* Proportional off, Median Pivot Point, scale the bottom loop to 0 in Z
* Assign a Solidify modifier, with 'Crease' set to 1 for Inner, Outer, and Rim.
The crease will hold against any subdivision.. after applying the modifiers you can extrude down the cylindrical headband, etc. (You might not even need subdivision, maybe AutoSmooth will do..)
EDIT: .... But as moonboots points out, it's worth taking a little time to put in a bevel after applying the Solidify and a level of subdivision around the rims, and then across the peaks and troughs, as shown:
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/DIBMy.jpg) | Here is a way to make a crown, maybe there's a simpler?
* Build a basic cube, delete its two side faces, give it a *Mirror* modifier.
* Drag up its central edge, add 3 vertical edge loops.
* Add some additional edge loops close to the angles so that it will sharp them later.
* Give your object an *Array* modifier. Choose a *Count* of 4. Enable the *Merge* option.
* Give your object a *Simple Deform* modifier / *Bend* mode. Choose an *Angle* value of 360°. If it doesn't turn around the Z axis, apply the rotation of your object.
* At last, give your object a *Subsurf* modifier (and press the *Smooth Shading* button on the *Tools* panel).
* Move a bit your edges with `G``G` to sharp the crest and the low of the crown.
* Apply the modifiers (except the *Subsurf* if possible), remove the doubles (where the 360° joint happens).
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/ElpNJ.jpg) |
132,867 | [](https://i.stack.imgur.com/vXXGd.png)
How can I smooth all crown but don't smooth the top of the crown? I did a subdivision surface, but this didn't work. All crown became smooth and changed form. | 2019/02/25 | [
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/132867",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/users/69756/"
] | add a subsurface modifier, select some edges and crease the edges
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/OtpAU.png)
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/XxlfS.png)
it's a little easier of you crease the entire thing, then select a few edges and reduce the crease where you want it softer or rounder.
creasing is quite versatile :D
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/lor0L.png) | Here is a way to make a crown, maybe there's a simpler?
* Build a basic cube, delete its two side faces, give it a *Mirror* modifier.
* Drag up its central edge, add 3 vertical edge loops.
* Add some additional edge loops close to the angles so that it will sharp them later.
* Give your object an *Array* modifier. Choose a *Count* of 4. Enable the *Merge* option.
* Give your object a *Simple Deform* modifier / *Bend* mode. Choose an *Angle* value of 360°. If it doesn't turn around the Z axis, apply the rotation of your object.
* At last, give your object a *Subsurf* modifier (and press the *Smooth Shading* button on the *Tools* panel).
* Move a bit your edges with `G``G` to sharp the crest and the low of the crown.
* Apply the modifiers (except the *Subsurf* if possible), remove the doubles (where the 360° joint happens).
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/ElpNJ.jpg) |
132,867 | [](https://i.stack.imgur.com/vXXGd.png)
How can I smooth all crown but don't smooth the top of the crown? I did a subdivision surface, but this didn't work. All crown became smooth and changed form. | 2019/02/25 | [
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/132867",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/users/69756/"
] | Another approach:
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/SIHPD.jpg)
* Create a Z-scaled, subduvided UV sphere, and a capless cylinder, at the origin.
* Give the cylinder a few horizontal loops, and assign it a Srinkwrap modifier to the sphere; drag it down to a good-looking position in Z
* Select the N,S,E,W vertices on the top loop of the Cylinder, and with Proportional Edit / Linear falloff, drag the points up in Z
* Proportional off, Median Pivot Point, scale the bottom loop to 0 in Z
* Assign a Solidify modifier, with 'Crease' set to 1 for Inner, Outer, and Rim.
The crease will hold against any subdivision.. after applying the modifiers you can extrude down the cylindrical headband, etc. (You might not even need subdivision, maybe AutoSmooth will do..)
EDIT: .... But as moonboots points out, it's worth taking a little time to put in a bevel after applying the Solidify and a level of subdivision around the rims, and then across the peaks and troughs, as shown:
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/DIBMy.jpg) | add a subsurface modifier, select some edges and crease the edges
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/OtpAU.png)
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/XxlfS.png)
it's a little easier of you crease the entire thing, then select a few edges and reduce the crease where you want it softer or rounder.
creasing is quite versatile :D
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/lor0L.png) |
132,867 | [](https://i.stack.imgur.com/vXXGd.png)
How can I smooth all crown but don't smooth the top of the crown? I did a subdivision surface, but this didn't work. All crown became smooth and changed form. | 2019/02/25 | [
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/132867",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/users/69756/"
] | Another approach:
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/SIHPD.jpg)
* Create a Z-scaled, subduvided UV sphere, and a capless cylinder, at the origin.
* Give the cylinder a few horizontal loops, and assign it a Srinkwrap modifier to the sphere; drag it down to a good-looking position in Z
* Select the N,S,E,W vertices on the top loop of the Cylinder, and with Proportional Edit / Linear falloff, drag the points up in Z
* Proportional off, Median Pivot Point, scale the bottom loop to 0 in Z
* Assign a Solidify modifier, with 'Crease' set to 1 for Inner, Outer, and Rim.
The crease will hold against any subdivision.. after applying the modifiers you can extrude down the cylindrical headband, etc. (You might not even need subdivision, maybe AutoSmooth will do..)
EDIT: .... But as moonboots points out, it's worth taking a little time to put in a bevel after applying the Solidify and a level of subdivision around the rims, and then across the peaks and troughs, as shown:
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/DIBMy.jpg) | Just above the Mean Crease setting that kei suggested is the Mean Bevel Weight (for edges, not the one for vertices). My usual method is to set the edges Mean Bevel Weight to 1.0, then add a Bevel modifier, making sure it's above the Subdivision Surface modifier in the modifier stack, and in the Bevel modifier making sure the Weight button is selected, not None. Adjust the Bevel modifier's other settings, Width and Segments, to taste; Segments is usually 3 for me.
This allows you to control the rounding / beveling of those specific edges separately from whatever the Subdivision Surface modifier does.
Alternatively, instead of using Mean Bevel Weight you could use a vertex group.
Sometimes you simply want the "obvious" edges not subdivided by the Subdivision Surface modifier, for example with a cylinder I want the top and bottom edges left alone. In that case I can select the Bevel modifier's Angle button, changing the Angle value to 80 or whatever if necessary. Using this method, if you add a cylinder and set the number of vertices (sides) to 6, it will still turn into a cylinder when you add the Subdivision Surface and you have the Levels high enough (3 or more). |
132,867 | [](https://i.stack.imgur.com/vXXGd.png)
How can I smooth all crown but don't smooth the top of the crown? I did a subdivision surface, but this didn't work. All crown became smooth and changed form. | 2019/02/25 | [
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/132867",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/users/69756/"
] | add a subsurface modifier, select some edges and crease the edges
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/OtpAU.png)
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/XxlfS.png)
it's a little easier of you crease the entire thing, then select a few edges and reduce the crease where you want it softer or rounder.
creasing is quite versatile :D
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/lor0L.png) | Just above the Mean Crease setting that kei suggested is the Mean Bevel Weight (for edges, not the one for vertices). My usual method is to set the edges Mean Bevel Weight to 1.0, then add a Bevel modifier, making sure it's above the Subdivision Surface modifier in the modifier stack, and in the Bevel modifier making sure the Weight button is selected, not None. Adjust the Bevel modifier's other settings, Width and Segments, to taste; Segments is usually 3 for me.
This allows you to control the rounding / beveling of those specific edges separately from whatever the Subdivision Surface modifier does.
Alternatively, instead of using Mean Bevel Weight you could use a vertex group.
Sometimes you simply want the "obvious" edges not subdivided by the Subdivision Surface modifier, for example with a cylinder I want the top and bottom edges left alone. In that case I can select the Bevel modifier's Angle button, changing the Angle value to 80 or whatever if necessary. Using this method, if you add a cylinder and set the number of vertices (sides) to 6, it will still turn into a cylinder when you add the Subdivision Surface and you have the Levels high enough (3 or more). |
425 | Can you think of films where the distinction between score and sound design is creatively or accidentally undermined?
In a lot of films the distinction is really clear: score is orchestral music, electronic atmospheres or rock songs, and it comments on emotion or drama or something. Sound design is usually recordings of non-musical things, and acts to anchor the image and make everything convincing. (I'm simplifying a lot, but you know what I mean.) Sometimes in a film, however, it's much harder to draw a clear distinction between score and sound design, and I always find it interesting when I come across this kind of blurring.
Here's a couple of different examples of what I mean:
1. In the electronic score for Forbidden Planet, the sounds are often ambiguous enough to blur the distinction between score and sound design. Check out [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIuc1_Qg4A8) of a spaceship landing: is the sound that accompanies it a sound effect — is it meant to *represent* the sound of the spaceship — or is it 'spaceship landing music'? In Star Wars, for example, the distinction between the sound of a spaceship landing and the music which might accompany it is totally clear; here it's a much stranger and more ambiguous thing, which I quite like.
2. Can't find a clip online, but in the Gus Van Sant film *Elephant*, there's a scene where a female character walks through the gym. The score at that point is (Canadian soundscape composer) Hildegard Westerkamp's *Beneath The Forest Floor*, a piece built from field recordings of a forest. So the character is walking through the gym and we hear music made from forest birds. Again, there's no clear way to distinguish score or sound design here, it's just an example of creative organised sound (which is what score and sound design both are fundamentally anyway).
3. I guess mickeymousing is also an example of this, because it's using score to do what foley can do: a character falls over and a cymbal crashes, for example. It gets a bad name but I kind of like it because it builds an audiovisual language instead of treating sound and image as distinct.
Anyway: I'm sure there's a whole bunch of other ways it can be done (deliberately or accidentally), can you think of any? | 2010/03/20 | [
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/425",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/users/159/"
] | Pretty much every horror film | Gasper Noe's 2002 cult classic *Irreversible* features two very shocking scenes that gained the film notoriety. One of these is in a nightclub where the main character is looking for someone who he ends up killing with a fire extinguisher (very gruesome scene). The whole scene was incredibly intensified by Thomas Bangalter's score mixed with the intense camera work.
Overall, the audience is left with a feeling of nausea, largely due to the well-designed soundtrack. It is really just a repetitive drone but it has an incredible effect of intensifying the gravity of the scene. |
425 | Can you think of films where the distinction between score and sound design is creatively or accidentally undermined?
In a lot of films the distinction is really clear: score is orchestral music, electronic atmospheres or rock songs, and it comments on emotion or drama or something. Sound design is usually recordings of non-musical things, and acts to anchor the image and make everything convincing. (I'm simplifying a lot, but you know what I mean.) Sometimes in a film, however, it's much harder to draw a clear distinction between score and sound design, and I always find it interesting when I come across this kind of blurring.
Here's a couple of different examples of what I mean:
1. In the electronic score for Forbidden Planet, the sounds are often ambiguous enough to blur the distinction between score and sound design. Check out [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIuc1_Qg4A8) of a spaceship landing: is the sound that accompanies it a sound effect — is it meant to *represent* the sound of the spaceship — or is it 'spaceship landing music'? In Star Wars, for example, the distinction between the sound of a spaceship landing and the music which might accompany it is totally clear; here it's a much stranger and more ambiguous thing, which I quite like.
2. Can't find a clip online, but in the Gus Van Sant film *Elephant*, there's a scene where a female character walks through the gym. The score at that point is (Canadian soundscape composer) Hildegard Westerkamp's *Beneath The Forest Floor*, a piece built from field recordings of a forest. So the character is walking through the gym and we hear music made from forest birds. Again, there's no clear way to distinguish score or sound design here, it's just an example of creative organised sound (which is what score and sound design both are fundamentally anyway).
3. I guess mickeymousing is also an example of this, because it's using score to do what foley can do: a character falls over and a cymbal crashes, for example. It gets a bad name but I kind of like it because it builds an audiovisual language instead of treating sound and image as distinct.
Anyway: I'm sure there's a whole bunch of other ways it can be done (deliberately or accidentally), can you think of any? | 2010/03/20 | [
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/425",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/users/159/"
] | ["THX 1138"](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066434/) for me this whole movie is surely *the* best example of a movie which blurs the distinction between score and sound design. | There's a movie that came out a couple years ago called *In The City Of Sylvia*.
There wasn't much dialogue... but sound was used hand in hand with the image to create settings that drew you in. Many scenes are simply a static camera and a sound field almost meant to simulate a moving painting with audio.
In one of the scenes where there's actual music, a group of violinists wander around an outdoor cafe, becoming part of the ambience, but the music isn't part of the space... really hypnotic.
It's a really amazing film, one in which sound design was the focus, and I'd love to get anyone else's take who's seen it. If you haven't, you can get a good idea from the trailer. |
425 | Can you think of films where the distinction between score and sound design is creatively or accidentally undermined?
In a lot of films the distinction is really clear: score is orchestral music, electronic atmospheres or rock songs, and it comments on emotion or drama or something. Sound design is usually recordings of non-musical things, and acts to anchor the image and make everything convincing. (I'm simplifying a lot, but you know what I mean.) Sometimes in a film, however, it's much harder to draw a clear distinction between score and sound design, and I always find it interesting when I come across this kind of blurring.
Here's a couple of different examples of what I mean:
1. In the electronic score for Forbidden Planet, the sounds are often ambiguous enough to blur the distinction between score and sound design. Check out [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIuc1_Qg4A8) of a spaceship landing: is the sound that accompanies it a sound effect — is it meant to *represent* the sound of the spaceship — or is it 'spaceship landing music'? In Star Wars, for example, the distinction between the sound of a spaceship landing and the music which might accompany it is totally clear; here it's a much stranger and more ambiguous thing, which I quite like.
2. Can't find a clip online, but in the Gus Van Sant film *Elephant*, there's a scene where a female character walks through the gym. The score at that point is (Canadian soundscape composer) Hildegard Westerkamp's *Beneath The Forest Floor*, a piece built from field recordings of a forest. So the character is walking through the gym and we hear music made from forest birds. Again, there's no clear way to distinguish score or sound design here, it's just an example of creative organised sound (which is what score and sound design both are fundamentally anyway).
3. I guess mickeymousing is also an example of this, because it's using score to do what foley can do: a character falls over and a cymbal crashes, for example. It gets a bad name but I kind of like it because it builds an audiovisual language instead of treating sound and image as distinct.
Anyway: I'm sure there's a whole bunch of other ways it can be done (deliberately or accidentally), can you think of any? | 2010/03/20 | [
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/425",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/users/159/"
] | In terms of blurring the distinction between score and sound design I'm reminded of Hitchcock's The Birds: Bernard Hermann, ordinarily tasked with writing a convention score, is given the role of supervising an electronic soundtrack of bird sounds. There is also a publicity photograph of Hitchcock listening, in mock (?) agony to the sounds on headphones. There is no non-diegetic music in the film, yet the bird sounds were being presented in terms of music, I believe. So I suppose the question, in this instance, is whether the soundtrack is a score or sound effects, or a new category. I like to think it's a new category that offers the potential for a creative marriage of sound and image; one that answers the concerns that purists held when the soundtrack was introduced to the film medium in the late '20s. | If you listen to some of the score from the original Pirates of the Caribbean, it almost seems like there are are few sound effects in the score, and if you are aware of them, then watch the movie, you'll notice that they are essentially functioning as sound effects as well. There are even some vocalizations (almost something I would consider dialogue) in there. I didn't even know they were part of the score until I listened to the score separately some time after the movie.
Not quite as ambiguous as your example, but still interesting.
I am also reminded of old Sci Fi movies such as 3rd Encounter, 2001, THX1138, etc... where many to most of the sound design was done on Arps and Synclaviers. The sound design, especially related to the "Space" elements (aliens, ships, etc...) were so musical - since they came from a synth - that they often blended right in with the score. Even the Ark scene from Raiders (Indiana Jones) reminds me of that. That scene relied heavily on an Arp 2600. |
425 | Can you think of films where the distinction between score and sound design is creatively or accidentally undermined?
In a lot of films the distinction is really clear: score is orchestral music, electronic atmospheres or rock songs, and it comments on emotion or drama or something. Sound design is usually recordings of non-musical things, and acts to anchor the image and make everything convincing. (I'm simplifying a lot, but you know what I mean.) Sometimes in a film, however, it's much harder to draw a clear distinction between score and sound design, and I always find it interesting when I come across this kind of blurring.
Here's a couple of different examples of what I mean:
1. In the electronic score for Forbidden Planet, the sounds are often ambiguous enough to blur the distinction between score and sound design. Check out [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIuc1_Qg4A8) of a spaceship landing: is the sound that accompanies it a sound effect — is it meant to *represent* the sound of the spaceship — or is it 'spaceship landing music'? In Star Wars, for example, the distinction between the sound of a spaceship landing and the music which might accompany it is totally clear; here it's a much stranger and more ambiguous thing, which I quite like.
2. Can't find a clip online, but in the Gus Van Sant film *Elephant*, there's a scene where a female character walks through the gym. The score at that point is (Canadian soundscape composer) Hildegard Westerkamp's *Beneath The Forest Floor*, a piece built from field recordings of a forest. So the character is walking through the gym and we hear music made from forest birds. Again, there's no clear way to distinguish score or sound design here, it's just an example of creative organised sound (which is what score and sound design both are fundamentally anyway).
3. I guess mickeymousing is also an example of this, because it's using score to do what foley can do: a character falls over and a cymbal crashes, for example. It gets a bad name but I kind of like it because it builds an audiovisual language instead of treating sound and image as distinct.
Anyway: I'm sure there's a whole bunch of other ways it can be done (deliberately or accidentally), can you think of any? | 2010/03/20 | [
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/425",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/users/159/"
] | On a master class, Skip Lievsay and Craig Berkey described how they've treated the wind tracks as music cues throughout *No Country For Old Men*, as the directors didn't want to have a score in a traditional way.
Not quite the same thing, but I thought it was a cool idea anyway. | Anything other than the original Russian mono version of Stalker has extra sound overdubbed that the Director never intended!
Kwaidan (1964) and Zatoichi (2003) are other good examples of the blurring of the lines. Japanese sensibilities in particular are very suited to this style, David Toop talks about this kind of thing in Japanese Cinema and Sound Art in his wonderful book 'Haunted Weather'.
Also another response to the original question (perhaps less sexy or exotic) is Walter Murch's use of Worldizing in American Grafitti, how music from Car and Cafe/Diner radios constantly glide between diegetic and non-diegetic, foreground and background. |
425 | Can you think of films where the distinction between score and sound design is creatively or accidentally undermined?
In a lot of films the distinction is really clear: score is orchestral music, electronic atmospheres or rock songs, and it comments on emotion or drama or something. Sound design is usually recordings of non-musical things, and acts to anchor the image and make everything convincing. (I'm simplifying a lot, but you know what I mean.) Sometimes in a film, however, it's much harder to draw a clear distinction between score and sound design, and I always find it interesting when I come across this kind of blurring.
Here's a couple of different examples of what I mean:
1. In the electronic score for Forbidden Planet, the sounds are often ambiguous enough to blur the distinction between score and sound design. Check out [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIuc1_Qg4A8) of a spaceship landing: is the sound that accompanies it a sound effect — is it meant to *represent* the sound of the spaceship — or is it 'spaceship landing music'? In Star Wars, for example, the distinction between the sound of a spaceship landing and the music which might accompany it is totally clear; here it's a much stranger and more ambiguous thing, which I quite like.
2. Can't find a clip online, but in the Gus Van Sant film *Elephant*, there's a scene where a female character walks through the gym. The score at that point is (Canadian soundscape composer) Hildegard Westerkamp's *Beneath The Forest Floor*, a piece built from field recordings of a forest. So the character is walking through the gym and we hear music made from forest birds. Again, there's no clear way to distinguish score or sound design here, it's just an example of creative organised sound (which is what score and sound design both are fundamentally anyway).
3. I guess mickeymousing is also an example of this, because it's using score to do what foley can do: a character falls over and a cymbal crashes, for example. It gets a bad name but I kind of like it because it builds an audiovisual language instead of treating sound and image as distinct.
Anyway: I'm sure there's a whole bunch of other ways it can be done (deliberately or accidentally), can you think of any? | 2010/03/20 | [
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/425",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/users/159/"
] | Gasper Noe's 2002 cult classic *Irreversible* features two very shocking scenes that gained the film notoriety. One of these is in a nightclub where the main character is looking for someone who he ends up killing with a fire extinguisher (very gruesome scene). The whole scene was incredibly intensified by Thomas Bangalter's score mixed with the intense camera work.
Overall, the audience is left with a feeling of nausea, largely due to the well-designed soundtrack. It is really just a repetitive drone but it has an incredible effect of intensifying the gravity of the scene. | There are some scenes in There Will Be Blood where the score is spawned from an on screen sound effect, and it slowly morphs into music. Some pretty intense music in that picture. |
425 | Can you think of films where the distinction between score and sound design is creatively or accidentally undermined?
In a lot of films the distinction is really clear: score is orchestral music, electronic atmospheres or rock songs, and it comments on emotion or drama or something. Sound design is usually recordings of non-musical things, and acts to anchor the image and make everything convincing. (I'm simplifying a lot, but you know what I mean.) Sometimes in a film, however, it's much harder to draw a clear distinction between score and sound design, and I always find it interesting when I come across this kind of blurring.
Here's a couple of different examples of what I mean:
1. In the electronic score for Forbidden Planet, the sounds are often ambiguous enough to blur the distinction between score and sound design. Check out [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIuc1_Qg4A8) of a spaceship landing: is the sound that accompanies it a sound effect — is it meant to *represent* the sound of the spaceship — or is it 'spaceship landing music'? In Star Wars, for example, the distinction between the sound of a spaceship landing and the music which might accompany it is totally clear; here it's a much stranger and more ambiguous thing, which I quite like.
2. Can't find a clip online, but in the Gus Van Sant film *Elephant*, there's a scene where a female character walks through the gym. The score at that point is (Canadian soundscape composer) Hildegard Westerkamp's *Beneath The Forest Floor*, a piece built from field recordings of a forest. So the character is walking through the gym and we hear music made from forest birds. Again, there's no clear way to distinguish score or sound design here, it's just an example of creative organised sound (which is what score and sound design both are fundamentally anyway).
3. I guess mickeymousing is also an example of this, because it's using score to do what foley can do: a character falls over and a cymbal crashes, for example. It gets a bad name but I kind of like it because it builds an audiovisual language instead of treating sound and image as distinct.
Anyway: I'm sure there's a whole bunch of other ways it can be done (deliberately or accidentally), can you think of any? | 2010/03/20 | [
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/425",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/users/159/"
] | Pretty much every horror film | There's a movie that came out a couple years ago called *In The City Of Sylvia*.
There wasn't much dialogue... but sound was used hand in hand with the image to create settings that drew you in. Many scenes are simply a static camera and a sound field almost meant to simulate a moving painting with audio.
In one of the scenes where there's actual music, a group of violinists wander around an outdoor cafe, becoming part of the ambience, but the music isn't part of the space... really hypnotic.
It's a really amazing film, one in which sound design was the focus, and I'd love to get anyone else's take who's seen it. If you haven't, you can get a good idea from the trailer. |
425 | Can you think of films where the distinction between score and sound design is creatively or accidentally undermined?
In a lot of films the distinction is really clear: score is orchestral music, electronic atmospheres or rock songs, and it comments on emotion or drama or something. Sound design is usually recordings of non-musical things, and acts to anchor the image and make everything convincing. (I'm simplifying a lot, but you know what I mean.) Sometimes in a film, however, it's much harder to draw a clear distinction between score and sound design, and I always find it interesting when I come across this kind of blurring.
Here's a couple of different examples of what I mean:
1. In the electronic score for Forbidden Planet, the sounds are often ambiguous enough to blur the distinction between score and sound design. Check out [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIuc1_Qg4A8) of a spaceship landing: is the sound that accompanies it a sound effect — is it meant to *represent* the sound of the spaceship — or is it 'spaceship landing music'? In Star Wars, for example, the distinction between the sound of a spaceship landing and the music which might accompany it is totally clear; here it's a much stranger and more ambiguous thing, which I quite like.
2. Can't find a clip online, but in the Gus Van Sant film *Elephant*, there's a scene where a female character walks through the gym. The score at that point is (Canadian soundscape composer) Hildegard Westerkamp's *Beneath The Forest Floor*, a piece built from field recordings of a forest. So the character is walking through the gym and we hear music made from forest birds. Again, there's no clear way to distinguish score or sound design here, it's just an example of creative organised sound (which is what score and sound design both are fundamentally anyway).
3. I guess mickeymousing is also an example of this, because it's using score to do what foley can do: a character falls over and a cymbal crashes, for example. It gets a bad name but I kind of like it because it builds an audiovisual language instead of treating sound and image as distinct.
Anyway: I'm sure there's a whole bunch of other ways it can be done (deliberately or accidentally), can you think of any? | 2010/03/20 | [
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/425",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/users/159/"
] | Anything other than the original Russian mono version of Stalker has extra sound overdubbed that the Director never intended!
Kwaidan (1964) and Zatoichi (2003) are other good examples of the blurring of the lines. Japanese sensibilities in particular are very suited to this style, David Toop talks about this kind of thing in Japanese Cinema and Sound Art in his wonderful book 'Haunted Weather'.
Also another response to the original question (perhaps less sexy or exotic) is Walter Murch's use of Worldizing in American Grafitti, how music from Car and Cafe/Diner radios constantly glide between diegetic and non-diegetic, foreground and background. | Eraserhead - I believe David Lynch created/recorded the industrial soundscapes and machine noises himself. The first example of a sound design score I've seen...except for the occasional 50's organ riff.
The Jacket - Partially scored with non-musical (and musical) FM synthesis. Brian Eno...
Last night I watched The Shining again and it is sometimes difficult to tell what is an instrument and what is a harsh piece of audio. Often a blur between I think.
Interesting question! |
425 | Can you think of films where the distinction between score and sound design is creatively or accidentally undermined?
In a lot of films the distinction is really clear: score is orchestral music, electronic atmospheres or rock songs, and it comments on emotion or drama or something. Sound design is usually recordings of non-musical things, and acts to anchor the image and make everything convincing. (I'm simplifying a lot, but you know what I mean.) Sometimes in a film, however, it's much harder to draw a clear distinction between score and sound design, and I always find it interesting when I come across this kind of blurring.
Here's a couple of different examples of what I mean:
1. In the electronic score for Forbidden Planet, the sounds are often ambiguous enough to blur the distinction between score and sound design. Check out [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIuc1_Qg4A8) of a spaceship landing: is the sound that accompanies it a sound effect — is it meant to *represent* the sound of the spaceship — or is it 'spaceship landing music'? In Star Wars, for example, the distinction between the sound of a spaceship landing and the music which might accompany it is totally clear; here it's a much stranger and more ambiguous thing, which I quite like.
2. Can't find a clip online, but in the Gus Van Sant film *Elephant*, there's a scene where a female character walks through the gym. The score at that point is (Canadian soundscape composer) Hildegard Westerkamp's *Beneath The Forest Floor*, a piece built from field recordings of a forest. So the character is walking through the gym and we hear music made from forest birds. Again, there's no clear way to distinguish score or sound design here, it's just an example of creative organised sound (which is what score and sound design both are fundamentally anyway).
3. I guess mickeymousing is also an example of this, because it's using score to do what foley can do: a character falls over and a cymbal crashes, for example. It gets a bad name but I kind of like it because it builds an audiovisual language instead of treating sound and image as distinct.
Anyway: I'm sure there's a whole bunch of other ways it can be done (deliberately or accidentally), can you think of any? | 2010/03/20 | [
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/425",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/users/159/"
] | ["THX 1138"](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066434/) for me this whole movie is surely *the* best example of a movie which blurs the distinction between score and sound design. | I think Lynch does fantastic stuff in his films, merging sound and music into the subconscious of the film- archytypal Lynch. The low tones and rumbles in Lost Highway are both ambient and musical- gets under the skin and crawls through you.
Also in Black Hawk Down when the helicopters are flying in for the mission- it is all propellor whirling, wind and engine- but as we fly over the Red Sea, the FX slowly fade ou and music, in the same tone and Rhythm come in dissecting the emotional amgiguity of the soldiers. Great stuff. |
425 | Can you think of films where the distinction between score and sound design is creatively or accidentally undermined?
In a lot of films the distinction is really clear: score is orchestral music, electronic atmospheres or rock songs, and it comments on emotion or drama or something. Sound design is usually recordings of non-musical things, and acts to anchor the image and make everything convincing. (I'm simplifying a lot, but you know what I mean.) Sometimes in a film, however, it's much harder to draw a clear distinction between score and sound design, and I always find it interesting when I come across this kind of blurring.
Here's a couple of different examples of what I mean:
1. In the electronic score for Forbidden Planet, the sounds are often ambiguous enough to blur the distinction between score and sound design. Check out [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIuc1_Qg4A8) of a spaceship landing: is the sound that accompanies it a sound effect — is it meant to *represent* the sound of the spaceship — or is it 'spaceship landing music'? In Star Wars, for example, the distinction between the sound of a spaceship landing and the music which might accompany it is totally clear; here it's a much stranger and more ambiguous thing, which I quite like.
2. Can't find a clip online, but in the Gus Van Sant film *Elephant*, there's a scene where a female character walks through the gym. The score at that point is (Canadian soundscape composer) Hildegard Westerkamp's *Beneath The Forest Floor*, a piece built from field recordings of a forest. So the character is walking through the gym and we hear music made from forest birds. Again, there's no clear way to distinguish score or sound design here, it's just an example of creative organised sound (which is what score and sound design both are fundamentally anyway).
3. I guess mickeymousing is also an example of this, because it's using score to do what foley can do: a character falls over and a cymbal crashes, for example. It gets a bad name but I kind of like it because it builds an audiovisual language instead of treating sound and image as distinct.
Anyway: I'm sure there's a whole bunch of other ways it can be done (deliberately or accidentally), can you think of any? | 2010/03/20 | [
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/425",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/users/159/"
] | Anything other than the original Russian mono version of Stalker has extra sound overdubbed that the Director never intended!
Kwaidan (1964) and Zatoichi (2003) are other good examples of the blurring of the lines. Japanese sensibilities in particular are very suited to this style, David Toop talks about this kind of thing in Japanese Cinema and Sound Art in his wonderful book 'Haunted Weather'.
Also another response to the original question (perhaps less sexy or exotic) is Walter Murch's use of Worldizing in American Grafitti, how music from Car and Cafe/Diner radios constantly glide between diegetic and non-diegetic, foreground and background. | There were at least 5 composers working on Michael Clayton who listed themselves as "Musical Sound Designers" and there are no other sound designers credited. That movie is driven by its dialogue and that dialogue was accented by several musical cues to heighten or highlight the impact of what was being said. At first glance, one might assume there's no score. On the contrary, that sound design is heavily influenced by the musical ideas of those composers. As a result, the events in the movie are brought into a real and more palpable dimension for the viewer to experience because of this blurring between sound design and score. |
425 | Can you think of films where the distinction between score and sound design is creatively or accidentally undermined?
In a lot of films the distinction is really clear: score is orchestral music, electronic atmospheres or rock songs, and it comments on emotion or drama or something. Sound design is usually recordings of non-musical things, and acts to anchor the image and make everything convincing. (I'm simplifying a lot, but you know what I mean.) Sometimes in a film, however, it's much harder to draw a clear distinction between score and sound design, and I always find it interesting when I come across this kind of blurring.
Here's a couple of different examples of what I mean:
1. In the electronic score for Forbidden Planet, the sounds are often ambiguous enough to blur the distinction between score and sound design. Check out [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIuc1_Qg4A8) of a spaceship landing: is the sound that accompanies it a sound effect — is it meant to *represent* the sound of the spaceship — or is it 'spaceship landing music'? In Star Wars, for example, the distinction between the sound of a spaceship landing and the music which might accompany it is totally clear; here it's a much stranger and more ambiguous thing, which I quite like.
2. Can't find a clip online, but in the Gus Van Sant film *Elephant*, there's a scene where a female character walks through the gym. The score at that point is (Canadian soundscape composer) Hildegard Westerkamp's *Beneath The Forest Floor*, a piece built from field recordings of a forest. So the character is walking through the gym and we hear music made from forest birds. Again, there's no clear way to distinguish score or sound design here, it's just an example of creative organised sound (which is what score and sound design both are fundamentally anyway).
3. I guess mickeymousing is also an example of this, because it's using score to do what foley can do: a character falls over and a cymbal crashes, for example. It gets a bad name but I kind of like it because it builds an audiovisual language instead of treating sound and image as distinct.
Anyway: I'm sure there's a whole bunch of other ways it can be done (deliberately or accidentally), can you think of any? | 2010/03/20 | [
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/425",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com",
"https://sound.stackexchange.com/users/159/"
] | I can think of a masterpiece by Andrey Tarkovsky called *Stalker*. Totally love how the sound design and score blend into each other in this railroad to the zone sequence: | Eraserhead - I believe David Lynch created/recorded the industrial soundscapes and machine noises himself. The first example of a sound design score I've seen...except for the occasional 50's organ riff.
The Jacket - Partially scored with non-musical (and musical) FM synthesis. Brian Eno...
Last night I watched The Shining again and it is sometimes difficult to tell what is an instrument and what is a harsh piece of audio. Often a blur between I think.
Interesting question! |
213,579 | 1. They are some places I never knew existed but they do and even look nice
2. They are some places I never knew they existed but do and even look nice
3. They are some places I never knew existed but do and even look nice
Which sentence sounds more natural? Never know what to choose...
Thanks, in advance | 2019/06/05 | [
"https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/213579",
"https://ell.stackexchange.com",
"https://ell.stackexchange.com/users/95463/"
] | I find 1) the most natural, but it would be even better with *they* repeated again before *even look nice*.
3) is comprehensible, and I think it is even grammatical, but I find it odd, because by the time I get to *but*, I've forgotten which verb *do* is supposed to coordinate with.
2) doesn't work. | Choice 3. Choice 1 sounds okay as well (in US-English), but not choice 2. |
19,674 | In trying to set reasonable limits on a PC's usage of the polymorph chain of spells. Is it plausible to require that the PC have some form of interaction with the target creature? Or can a PC polymorph into a creature that the PC has only heard about? Or read about in a book? Or seen just a painting of? From a solid role-playing standpoint, it seems reasonable to require that a) the creature exists in the multi-verse that the DM is running, and B) the PC has some knowledge of the creature. What is the minimum "knowledge" that the PC must have in order to polymorph into such creature? | 2012/12/19 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/19674",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/2787/"
] | Yes, it is plausible to restrict polymorph to creatures that the players have encountered. This is one of the commonly discussed polymorph house-rule.
I think the minimum knowledge would be determined by a [knowledge skill](http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD%3aKnowledge_Skill) check for that monster. If the monster does not exist in your multi-verse this check would be impossible to complete. Basic knowledge of a monster starts at 10+HD, but I would extend this to be 10+HD+X, where X is creature dependent (maybe based on the number of special abilities the creature has). | I recommend handling polymorph spells the following way: The player casts polymorph, wildshape, etc and tells the table what he's turning into. If anyone at the table then exclaims any of the following phrases: 'What?!', 'The hell book is that from?', '', 'That's (ridiculous/stupid/a travesty)', 'Quit being a douche', or 'Nuh-uh', then the casting fails and he gets to try again next round.
The best solution for all player problems isn't codifying a rule base to eliminate abuse, it's making it immediately clear that Player X's shenanigans are making the other people at the table have less fun. |
19,674 | In trying to set reasonable limits on a PC's usage of the polymorph chain of spells. Is it plausible to require that the PC have some form of interaction with the target creature? Or can a PC polymorph into a creature that the PC has only heard about? Or read about in a book? Or seen just a painting of? From a solid role-playing standpoint, it seems reasonable to require that a) the creature exists in the multi-verse that the DM is running, and B) the PC has some knowledge of the creature. What is the minimum "knowledge" that the PC must have in order to polymorph into such creature? | 2012/12/19 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/19674",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/2787/"
] | In my opinion, you should at least **have encountered the creature before** to polymorph into it. You might even have to examine a body. Reading about it in a book or rolling Knowledge should only let you recognize it.
1. It lets the DM prohibit creatures with abilities that are broken in the hands of PCs, or creatures which don't exist in his game world.
2. It adds realism. How can someone who's never seen an ettercap expect to replicate its form, let alone its poison glands?
3. If the player really wants a certain form, they can go and hunt down a creature of that type, and this can be the seed for an adventure.
4. It prevents the player from assuming the forms of high-powered, low-HD creatures that would normally be above their challenge rating. However, this is rarely an issue since creatures with low HD for their CR creatures tend to get their power from supernatural abilities that you don't get with *polymorph*. | I've taken to a risk v reward method for Polymorph. I make only one simple alteration. If you nat-1 on a Polymorph, you accidentally summon whatever you were trying to alter yourself or others into.
Nice and tidy, it deters anyone from doing anything too terrible or dangerous and is rare enough that occasional massive risk can result in great fortune. It retains the power of the spell, while preventing it from being abused.
A potential addition that I considered but didn't include was increasing the failure rate for monsters that the player hasn't encountered before or hasn't passed a knowledge test to know about. That could work, but the risk of accidentally making the battle unwinnable seems to be enough for my players. |
19,674 | In trying to set reasonable limits on a PC's usage of the polymorph chain of spells. Is it plausible to require that the PC have some form of interaction with the target creature? Or can a PC polymorph into a creature that the PC has only heard about? Or read about in a book? Or seen just a painting of? From a solid role-playing standpoint, it seems reasonable to require that a) the creature exists in the multi-verse that the DM is running, and B) the PC has some knowledge of the creature. What is the minimum "knowledge" that the PC must have in order to polymorph into such creature? | 2012/12/19 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/19674",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/2787/"
] | Polymorph Effects Are Dangerous
-------------------------------
It is a **very** good idea to limit them. At the extreme, changing into a Sarrukh from *Serpent Kingdoms* while using Assume Supernatural Ability (*Savage Species*) or *shapechange* is the opening gambit for becoming Pun-pun, a character with **+Yes** to everything and every ability ever published (and arguably abilities not published, as well).
So you definitely want to limit them somehow.
This Rule is Not Enough
-----------------------
If you implement this rule, you will now have to second-guess every monster you ever use. You’ll probably never use a Sarrukh, but you might use, say, a Dire Tortoise (*Sandstorm*). A smart Wizard or Druid will see that, and from then on get to act in every Surprise Round ever – even if there wouldn’t otherwise *be* a Surprise Round. You can, of course, nerf the Dire Tortoise, but a lot of players will cry foul if you do that after you used it.
Two Real Solutions
------------------
### Trust Your Players
This is the simple one. You don’t even need to add your houserule if you just trust your players. I’d really strongly suggest that, if you cannot trust your players, your group has bigger problems than Polymorph. Make it clear to all players that Polymorphing is something very dangerously powerful, and you will **not** appreciate it if players use it to break the game. That should be enough for most players to keep things reasonable.
Thematically, you may want certain limits, but you don’t have to say it’s specifically having encountered the animal. It seems thematically appropriate for a Wizard to be able to take the forms of animals he’s studied in intimate detail. And it’s also fair for a Druid to include encounters with a variety of animals in his backstory, and you could argue that Nature/the spirits of animals themselves are lending him their forms, even creatures he’s never met. It depends on how magic works in your setting.
### Ban Open-Ended Polymorph Effects Altogether
Replace the Druid’s Wild Shape with Shapeshifting from *Player’s Handbook II*. Ban *alter self*, *polymorph*, *polymorph any object*, and *shapechange*. Use the spells from the [Polymorph] subschool introduced in *Player’s Handbook II* – unlike e.g. *polymorph*, those spells each have a single form you can take.
Alternatively, you might consider a spell that is like *wild shape I* that lets you turn into a creature from the *summon nature’s ally I* list, or a *polymorph III* that lets you get creatures from *summon monster III*. Those lists are rather limited and should prevent the greatest abuses. In fact, they may be *too* weak – consider having *wild shape I* use the *summon nature’s ally II* list, and *polymorph I* might even use *summon monster III* – the Celestial and Fiendish templates really do very little for a player character, since the main draw is the Intelligence bonus. I have not actually looked at the lists, though. Ideally, really, you’d create all-new lists that are tailored to each level. | I've taken to a risk v reward method for Polymorph. I make only one simple alteration. If you nat-1 on a Polymorph, you accidentally summon whatever you were trying to alter yourself or others into.
Nice and tidy, it deters anyone from doing anything too terrible or dangerous and is rare enough that occasional massive risk can result in great fortune. It retains the power of the spell, while preventing it from being abused.
A potential addition that I considered but didn't include was increasing the failure rate for monsters that the player hasn't encountered before or hasn't passed a knowledge test to know about. That could work, but the risk of accidentally making the battle unwinnable seems to be enough for my players. |
19,674 | In trying to set reasonable limits on a PC's usage of the polymorph chain of spells. Is it plausible to require that the PC have some form of interaction with the target creature? Or can a PC polymorph into a creature that the PC has only heard about? Or read about in a book? Or seen just a painting of? From a solid role-playing standpoint, it seems reasonable to require that a) the creature exists in the multi-verse that the DM is running, and B) the PC has some knowledge of the creature. What is the minimum "knowledge" that the PC must have in order to polymorph into such creature? | 2012/12/19 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/19674",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/2787/"
] | I've taken to a risk v reward method for Polymorph. I make only one simple alteration. If you nat-1 on a Polymorph, you accidentally summon whatever you were trying to alter yourself or others into.
Nice and tidy, it deters anyone from doing anything too terrible or dangerous and is rare enough that occasional massive risk can result in great fortune. It retains the power of the spell, while preventing it from being abused.
A potential addition that I considered but didn't include was increasing the failure rate for monsters that the player hasn't encountered before or hasn't passed a knowledge test to know about. That could work, but the risk of accidentally making the battle unwinnable seems to be enough for my players. | I recommend handling polymorph spells the following way: The player casts polymorph, wildshape, etc and tells the table what he's turning into. If anyone at the table then exclaims any of the following phrases: 'What?!', 'The hell book is that from?', '', 'That's (ridiculous/stupid/a travesty)', 'Quit being a douche', or 'Nuh-uh', then the casting fails and he gets to try again next round.
The best solution for all player problems isn't codifying a rule base to eliminate abuse, it's making it immediately clear that Player X's shenanigans are making the other people at the table have less fun. |
19,674 | In trying to set reasonable limits on a PC's usage of the polymorph chain of spells. Is it plausible to require that the PC have some form of interaction with the target creature? Or can a PC polymorph into a creature that the PC has only heard about? Or read about in a book? Or seen just a painting of? From a solid role-playing standpoint, it seems reasonable to require that a) the creature exists in the multi-verse that the DM is running, and B) the PC has some knowledge of the creature. What is the minimum "knowledge" that the PC must have in order to polymorph into such creature? | 2012/12/19 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/19674",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/2787/"
] | Polymorph Effects Are Dangerous
-------------------------------
It is a **very** good idea to limit them. At the extreme, changing into a Sarrukh from *Serpent Kingdoms* while using Assume Supernatural Ability (*Savage Species*) or *shapechange* is the opening gambit for becoming Pun-pun, a character with **+Yes** to everything and every ability ever published (and arguably abilities not published, as well).
So you definitely want to limit them somehow.
This Rule is Not Enough
-----------------------
If you implement this rule, you will now have to second-guess every monster you ever use. You’ll probably never use a Sarrukh, but you might use, say, a Dire Tortoise (*Sandstorm*). A smart Wizard or Druid will see that, and from then on get to act in every Surprise Round ever – even if there wouldn’t otherwise *be* a Surprise Round. You can, of course, nerf the Dire Tortoise, but a lot of players will cry foul if you do that after you used it.
Two Real Solutions
------------------
### Trust Your Players
This is the simple one. You don’t even need to add your houserule if you just trust your players. I’d really strongly suggest that, if you cannot trust your players, your group has bigger problems than Polymorph. Make it clear to all players that Polymorphing is something very dangerously powerful, and you will **not** appreciate it if players use it to break the game. That should be enough for most players to keep things reasonable.
Thematically, you may want certain limits, but you don’t have to say it’s specifically having encountered the animal. It seems thematically appropriate for a Wizard to be able to take the forms of animals he’s studied in intimate detail. And it’s also fair for a Druid to include encounters with a variety of animals in his backstory, and you could argue that Nature/the spirits of animals themselves are lending him their forms, even creatures he’s never met. It depends on how magic works in your setting.
### Ban Open-Ended Polymorph Effects Altogether
Replace the Druid’s Wild Shape with Shapeshifting from *Player’s Handbook II*. Ban *alter self*, *polymorph*, *polymorph any object*, and *shapechange*. Use the spells from the [Polymorph] subschool introduced in *Player’s Handbook II* – unlike e.g. *polymorph*, those spells each have a single form you can take.
Alternatively, you might consider a spell that is like *wild shape I* that lets you turn into a creature from the *summon nature’s ally I* list, or a *polymorph III* that lets you get creatures from *summon monster III*. Those lists are rather limited and should prevent the greatest abuses. In fact, they may be *too* weak – consider having *wild shape I* use the *summon nature’s ally II* list, and *polymorph I* might even use *summon monster III* – the Celestial and Fiendish templates really do very little for a player character, since the main draw is the Intelligence bonus. I have not actually looked at the lists, though. Ideally, really, you’d create all-new lists that are tailored to each level. | I recommend handling polymorph spells the following way: The player casts polymorph, wildshape, etc and tells the table what he's turning into. If anyone at the table then exclaims any of the following phrases: 'What?!', 'The hell book is that from?', '', 'That's (ridiculous/stupid/a travesty)', 'Quit being a douche', or 'Nuh-uh', then the casting fails and he gets to try again next round.
The best solution for all player problems isn't codifying a rule base to eliminate abuse, it's making it immediately clear that Player X's shenanigans are making the other people at the table have less fun. |
78,825 | If fire annihilates the Dead, why are they such a threat? Wouldn't Jon Snow just ask to borrow Khaleesi's babies for an afternoon?
I'm aware that Dany is the only one who can control her dragons.
My point is this: Jon Snow is trying to unite houses, tribes, and kingdoms the world over against a common enemy, continuously reminding all that will listen that they have never been up against a force so formidable as the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead, and that only he has seen what the Night King can do, and that if the world of the living is to endure, we must rally every warm body against them.
But I fail to see the magnitude of such a threat in a world where one of its residents can control a weapon that administers a method of death (on a semi-mass-destructive scale) that happens to be the exact bane of such a potential threat.
Why is Jon Snow so concerned with boots on the ground and global cooperation when it seems that one couldn't come up with a better antidote to the walking dead than dragon-fire? | 2017/08/15 | [
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/78825",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/users/51552/"
] | I think Jon is being practical. Yes the dragons are great but the night king has magic and could easily blind them in clouds of snow. The army usually walks under a blinding blizzard so it isn't a sure thing.
Plus the biggest issue he has to deal with south of the wall is everyone killing each other off or worse attacking him from behind when they are trying to defend the wall. He has to unite everyone to stop the bloodshed.
Another thing to think about is that the night king may very well drag all those dead bodies back out of the ground to join his army once he is past the wall. The problem is no one knows how great the danger is so getting everyone ready and united is really the best option.
--- edit ---
After S07E06 we see exactly why the dragons aren't the perfect weapon verse them. I won't expand upon that but another thing I realized is that in that sea of undead, which includes giants and polar bears the actual white walkers are not going to be easy to see. The Night King and his group riding horses seem to just appear on the battlefield. They may remain hidden until they are ready to act. | Giant Wights with Large CrossBows like the one seen in S7E4-can slay a dragon. The top of the wall was a lot farther than Bronn was to the dragon with the Scorpion-shooting dragons with large bolts wouldn't be too hard for a giant. |
78,825 | If fire annihilates the Dead, why are they such a threat? Wouldn't Jon Snow just ask to borrow Khaleesi's babies for an afternoon?
I'm aware that Dany is the only one who can control her dragons.
My point is this: Jon Snow is trying to unite houses, tribes, and kingdoms the world over against a common enemy, continuously reminding all that will listen that they have never been up against a force so formidable as the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead, and that only he has seen what the Night King can do, and that if the world of the living is to endure, we must rally every warm body against them.
But I fail to see the magnitude of such a threat in a world where one of its residents can control a weapon that administers a method of death (on a semi-mass-destructive scale) that happens to be the exact bane of such a potential threat.
Why is Jon Snow so concerned with boots on the ground and global cooperation when it seems that one couldn't come up with a better antidote to the walking dead than dragon-fire? | 2017/08/15 | [
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/78825",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/users/51552/"
] | **Spoiler alert**
This question is answered in the leaked episode S7E6.
>
> In S7E6, as Daenerys goes to save Jon Snow who is stuck north of the wall, the night's king takes one of the dragons down with a spear, and very easily. The dragons might have killed huge numbers from the army of the dead, but with the night king being able to kill them with one blow, if they started a war with the army of the dead using dragons only, the three dragons will probably die before being able to kill all of the dead, and the army of the dead will end up having three additional dragons.
>
>
> | I think Jon is being practical. Yes the dragons are great but the night king has magic and could easily blind them in clouds of snow. The army usually walks under a blinding blizzard so it isn't a sure thing.
Plus the biggest issue he has to deal with south of the wall is everyone killing each other off or worse attacking him from behind when they are trying to defend the wall. He has to unite everyone to stop the bloodshed.
Another thing to think about is that the night king may very well drag all those dead bodies back out of the ground to join his army once he is past the wall. The problem is no one knows how great the danger is so getting everyone ready and united is really the best option.
--- edit ---
After S07E06 we see exactly why the dragons aren't the perfect weapon verse them. I won't expand upon that but another thing I realized is that in that sea of undead, which includes giants and polar bears the actual white walkers are not going to be easy to see. The Night King and his group riding horses seem to just appear on the battlefield. They may remain hidden until they are ready to act. |
78,825 | If fire annihilates the Dead, why are they such a threat? Wouldn't Jon Snow just ask to borrow Khaleesi's babies for an afternoon?
I'm aware that Dany is the only one who can control her dragons.
My point is this: Jon Snow is trying to unite houses, tribes, and kingdoms the world over against a common enemy, continuously reminding all that will listen that they have never been up against a force so formidable as the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead, and that only he has seen what the Night King can do, and that if the world of the living is to endure, we must rally every warm body against them.
But I fail to see the magnitude of such a threat in a world where one of its residents can control a weapon that administers a method of death (on a semi-mass-destructive scale) that happens to be the exact bane of such a potential threat.
Why is Jon Snow so concerned with boots on the ground and global cooperation when it seems that one couldn't come up with a better antidote to the walking dead than dragon-fire? | 2017/08/15 | [
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/78825",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/users/51552/"
] | **Spoiler alert**
This question is answered in the leaked episode S7E6.
>
> In S7E6, as Daenerys goes to save Jon Snow who is stuck north of the wall, the night's king takes one of the dragons down with a spear, and very easily. The dragons might have killed huge numbers from the army of the dead, but with the night king being able to kill them with one blow, if they started a war with the army of the dead using dragons only, the three dragons will probably die before being able to kill all of the dead, and the army of the dead will end up having three additional dragons.
>
>
> | Dany knows Jon wants her dragons but right now they are too valuable as an instrument of war or simply as a show of force in taking the iron throne. Plus she views them as her children and is very protective.
Daenerys' dragons will eventually help Jon Snow and the North against the white walkers but I don't believe it will be as simple as flying over their armies and breathing fire to melt the dead away. The dragons are essentially flying lizards and are cold blooded animals. The temperatures north of the wall would be too hostile an environment for the dragons to be as effective as we have seen thus far. While I understand that their is a magical element so it is plausible for the dragons to endure the cold but if there are no repercussions in bringing them North it will be a huge flaw in the story and we all know nothing is that simple in this series. |
78,825 | If fire annihilates the Dead, why are they such a threat? Wouldn't Jon Snow just ask to borrow Khaleesi's babies for an afternoon?
I'm aware that Dany is the only one who can control her dragons.
My point is this: Jon Snow is trying to unite houses, tribes, and kingdoms the world over against a common enemy, continuously reminding all that will listen that they have never been up against a force so formidable as the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead, and that only he has seen what the Night King can do, and that if the world of the living is to endure, we must rally every warm body against them.
But I fail to see the magnitude of such a threat in a world where one of its residents can control a weapon that administers a method of death (on a semi-mass-destructive scale) that happens to be the exact bane of such a potential threat.
Why is Jon Snow so concerned with boots on the ground and global cooperation when it seems that one couldn't come up with a better antidote to the walking dead than dragon-fire? | 2017/08/15 | [
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/78825",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/users/51552/"
] | That's essentially why Jon is there.
When Jon received Tyrion's letter inviting him to Dragonstone, Davos Seaworth pointed out to Jon that fire kills the Others and asked him what breathes fire?
From Season 7 Episode 2:
>
> Sansa: You think it's really Tyrion? It could be someone trying to
> lure you into a trap.
>
>
> Jon: Read the last bit. "All dwarves are bastards in their father's
> eyes."
>
>
> Sansa: What does that mean?
>
>
> Jon: It's something he said to me the first night we met. You know him
> better than any of us. What do you think?
>
>
> Sansa: Tyrion's not like the other Lannisters. He was always kind to
> me, but it's too great a risk.
>
>
> Jon: "The Seven Kingdoms will bleed as long as Cersei sits on the Iron
> Throne. Join us. Together, we can end her tyranny."
>
>
> Davos: Sounds like a charmer. Of course, the casual mention of a
> Dothraki horde, a legion of Unsullied, and three dragons a bit less
> charming.
>
>
> Jon: What?
>
>
> Davos: **Fire kills wights, you told me. What breathes fire?**
>
>
> Sansa: You're not suggesting Jon meet with her?
>
>
>
So that's why Jon is there. He wants Daenerys to aid him in his fight with her dragons. He went against his Lords and Sansa's counsel and went to Dragonstone so that he could persuade Daenerys to send dragons for the Battle for Dawn Part II.
He can't borrow them as such, as he can't control them (As of Episode 5 Season 6, since this looks like I am implying he won't ever be able to control them). But he can ask the person who can control them (Or one of them at any rate) to come with him. | The dragons can take out the wights with fire, but I think the white walkers are impervious to fire. Remember when they came to the tree to kill the three eyed raven? |
78,825 | If fire annihilates the Dead, why are they such a threat? Wouldn't Jon Snow just ask to borrow Khaleesi's babies for an afternoon?
I'm aware that Dany is the only one who can control her dragons.
My point is this: Jon Snow is trying to unite houses, tribes, and kingdoms the world over against a common enemy, continuously reminding all that will listen that they have never been up against a force so formidable as the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead, and that only he has seen what the Night King can do, and that if the world of the living is to endure, we must rally every warm body against them.
But I fail to see the magnitude of such a threat in a world where one of its residents can control a weapon that administers a method of death (on a semi-mass-destructive scale) that happens to be the exact bane of such a potential threat.
Why is Jon Snow so concerned with boots on the ground and global cooperation when it seems that one couldn't come up with a better antidote to the walking dead than dragon-fire? | 2017/08/15 | [
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/78825",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/users/51552/"
] | **Spoiler alert**
This question is answered in the leaked episode S7E6.
>
> In S7E6, as Daenerys goes to save Jon Snow who is stuck north of the wall, the night's king takes one of the dragons down with a spear, and very easily. The dragons might have killed huge numbers from the army of the dead, but with the night king being able to kill them with one blow, if they started a war with the army of the dead using dragons only, the three dragons will probably die before being able to kill all of the dead, and the army of the dead will end up having three additional dragons.
>
>
> | No. He (or any one else for that matter) can't ride, control, or order a dragon to do something that complicated. Even Daenerys can't.
During the series, you never see her riding any of the other two dragons. They're not with her when she attacks the Lannister army because (most likely) she can't just tell them to follow her. |
78,825 | If fire annihilates the Dead, why are they such a threat? Wouldn't Jon Snow just ask to borrow Khaleesi's babies for an afternoon?
I'm aware that Dany is the only one who can control her dragons.
My point is this: Jon Snow is trying to unite houses, tribes, and kingdoms the world over against a common enemy, continuously reminding all that will listen that they have never been up against a force so formidable as the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead, and that only he has seen what the Night King can do, and that if the world of the living is to endure, we must rally every warm body against them.
But I fail to see the magnitude of such a threat in a world where one of its residents can control a weapon that administers a method of death (on a semi-mass-destructive scale) that happens to be the exact bane of such a potential threat.
Why is Jon Snow so concerned with boots on the ground and global cooperation when it seems that one couldn't come up with a better antidote to the walking dead than dragon-fire? | 2017/08/15 | [
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/78825",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/users/51552/"
] | As an author, your primary task is to create *conflict*, *not* solutions. When you design a story, you always try to find the most complex and perplexing way to resolve a situation.
To put it another way: You can't fill a series of 700+ page books when you're solving every problem efficiently.
In this case, dragons are a natural/efficient solution for the Walker problem, so George has to find obstacles. In game design this is called "balancing". Games are no fun when one party is so powerful that they can simply wipe out the opposition with a click of a button.
Here is a short list of complications that I came up with in a few minutes:
* Advisers playing their own games
* Misunderstandings
* Traitors
* When Daenerys arrives with a few or one dragon, they might be killed or, worse, injured (dying for days or weeks! The Horror!) So she should arrive with many - which she can't really control. And while she's there with many dragons ... why not take the throne while we're at it?
* It's not good for your reputation score when your dragons burn a few cities and eat the people there on the way ...
* Daenerys arrives with many dragons, defeats the Walkers. Now everyone else thinks "hey, she's weak now, let's finish her!"
* She returns home only to find that someone attacked while she was away
* How long can dragons live in cold conditions?
* How efficient is magic against dragons?
* If it was so simple, why isn't everyone asking Daenerys for help? Let's ponder this to see what else we can come up with.
* Maybe the Night King can somehow take control of a dragon
* Or interrupt Daenerys control while she is riding (turning her into an in-flight snack)
* Maybe the dragons don't want to. They are somewhat sentient, right? They can (and might) say "No". Good luck forcing them...
I think it's George's great skill that he can come up with so many believable complications and problems in his story. | No. He (or any one else for that matter) can't ride, control, or order a dragon to do something that complicated. Even Daenerys can't.
During the series, you never see her riding any of the other two dragons. They're not with her when she attacks the Lannister army because (most likely) she can't just tell them to follow her. |
78,825 | If fire annihilates the Dead, why are they such a threat? Wouldn't Jon Snow just ask to borrow Khaleesi's babies for an afternoon?
I'm aware that Dany is the only one who can control her dragons.
My point is this: Jon Snow is trying to unite houses, tribes, and kingdoms the world over against a common enemy, continuously reminding all that will listen that they have never been up against a force so formidable as the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead, and that only he has seen what the Night King can do, and that if the world of the living is to endure, we must rally every warm body against them.
But I fail to see the magnitude of such a threat in a world where one of its residents can control a weapon that administers a method of death (on a semi-mass-destructive scale) that happens to be the exact bane of such a potential threat.
Why is Jon Snow so concerned with boots on the ground and global cooperation when it seems that one couldn't come up with a better antidote to the walking dead than dragon-fire? | 2017/08/15 | [
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/78825",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/users/51552/"
] | I think Jon is being practical. Yes the dragons are great but the night king has magic and could easily blind them in clouds of snow. The army usually walks under a blinding blizzard so it isn't a sure thing.
Plus the biggest issue he has to deal with south of the wall is everyone killing each other off or worse attacking him from behind when they are trying to defend the wall. He has to unite everyone to stop the bloodshed.
Another thing to think about is that the night king may very well drag all those dead bodies back out of the ground to join his army once he is past the wall. The problem is no one knows how great the danger is so getting everyone ready and united is really the best option.
--- edit ---
After S07E06 we see exactly why the dragons aren't the perfect weapon verse them. I won't expand upon that but another thing I realized is that in that sea of undead, which includes giants and polar bears the actual white walkers are not going to be easy to see. The Night King and his group riding horses seem to just appear on the battlefield. They may remain hidden until they are ready to act. | No. He (or any one else for that matter) can't ride, control, or order a dragon to do something that complicated. Even Daenerys can't.
During the series, you never see her riding any of the other two dragons. They're not with her when she attacks the Lannister army because (most likely) she can't just tell them to follow her. |
78,825 | If fire annihilates the Dead, why are they such a threat? Wouldn't Jon Snow just ask to borrow Khaleesi's babies for an afternoon?
I'm aware that Dany is the only one who can control her dragons.
My point is this: Jon Snow is trying to unite houses, tribes, and kingdoms the world over against a common enemy, continuously reminding all that will listen that they have never been up against a force so formidable as the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead, and that only he has seen what the Night King can do, and that if the world of the living is to endure, we must rally every warm body against them.
But I fail to see the magnitude of such a threat in a world where one of its residents can control a weapon that administers a method of death (on a semi-mass-destructive scale) that happens to be the exact bane of such a potential threat.
Why is Jon Snow so concerned with boots on the ground and global cooperation when it seems that one couldn't come up with a better antidote to the walking dead than dragon-fire? | 2017/08/15 | [
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/78825",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/users/51552/"
] | **Spoiler alert**
This question is answered in the leaked episode S7E6.
>
> In S7E6, as Daenerys goes to save Jon Snow who is stuck north of the wall, the night's king takes one of the dragons down with a spear, and very easily. The dragons might have killed huge numbers from the army of the dead, but with the night king being able to kill them with one blow, if they started a war with the army of the dead using dragons only, the three dragons will probably die before being able to kill all of the dead, and the army of the dead will end up having three additional dragons.
>
>
> | Giant Wights with Large CrossBows like the one seen in S7E4-can slay a dragon. The top of the wall was a lot farther than Bronn was to the dragon with the Scorpion-shooting dragons with large bolts wouldn't be too hard for a giant. |
78,825 | If fire annihilates the Dead, why are they such a threat? Wouldn't Jon Snow just ask to borrow Khaleesi's babies for an afternoon?
I'm aware that Dany is the only one who can control her dragons.
My point is this: Jon Snow is trying to unite houses, tribes, and kingdoms the world over against a common enemy, continuously reminding all that will listen that they have never been up against a force so formidable as the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead, and that only he has seen what the Night King can do, and that if the world of the living is to endure, we must rally every warm body against them.
But I fail to see the magnitude of such a threat in a world where one of its residents can control a weapon that administers a method of death (on a semi-mass-destructive scale) that happens to be the exact bane of such a potential threat.
Why is Jon Snow so concerned with boots on the ground and global cooperation when it seems that one couldn't come up with a better antidote to the walking dead than dragon-fire? | 2017/08/15 | [
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/78825",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/users/51552/"
] | **Spoiler alert**
This question is answered in the leaked episode S7E6.
>
> In S7E6, as Daenerys goes to save Jon Snow who is stuck north of the wall, the night's king takes one of the dragons down with a spear, and very easily. The dragons might have killed huge numbers from the army of the dead, but with the night king being able to kill them with one blow, if they started a war with the army of the dead using dragons only, the three dragons will probably die before being able to kill all of the dead, and the army of the dead will end up having three additional dragons.
>
>
> | The dragons can take out the wights with fire, but I think the white walkers are impervious to fire. Remember when they came to the tree to kill the three eyed raven? |
78,825 | If fire annihilates the Dead, why are they such a threat? Wouldn't Jon Snow just ask to borrow Khaleesi's babies for an afternoon?
I'm aware that Dany is the only one who can control her dragons.
My point is this: Jon Snow is trying to unite houses, tribes, and kingdoms the world over against a common enemy, continuously reminding all that will listen that they have never been up against a force so formidable as the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead, and that only he has seen what the Night King can do, and that if the world of the living is to endure, we must rally every warm body against them.
But I fail to see the magnitude of such a threat in a world where one of its residents can control a weapon that administers a method of death (on a semi-mass-destructive scale) that happens to be the exact bane of such a potential threat.
Why is Jon Snow so concerned with boots on the ground and global cooperation when it seems that one couldn't come up with a better antidote to the walking dead than dragon-fire? | 2017/08/15 | [
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/78825",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/users/51552/"
] | That's essentially why Jon is there.
When Jon received Tyrion's letter inviting him to Dragonstone, Davos Seaworth pointed out to Jon that fire kills the Others and asked him what breathes fire?
From Season 7 Episode 2:
>
> Sansa: You think it's really Tyrion? It could be someone trying to
> lure you into a trap.
>
>
> Jon: Read the last bit. "All dwarves are bastards in their father's
> eyes."
>
>
> Sansa: What does that mean?
>
>
> Jon: It's something he said to me the first night we met. You know him
> better than any of us. What do you think?
>
>
> Sansa: Tyrion's not like the other Lannisters. He was always kind to
> me, but it's too great a risk.
>
>
> Jon: "The Seven Kingdoms will bleed as long as Cersei sits on the Iron
> Throne. Join us. Together, we can end her tyranny."
>
>
> Davos: Sounds like a charmer. Of course, the casual mention of a
> Dothraki horde, a legion of Unsullied, and three dragons a bit less
> charming.
>
>
> Jon: What?
>
>
> Davos: **Fire kills wights, you told me. What breathes fire?**
>
>
> Sansa: You're not suggesting Jon meet with her?
>
>
>
So that's why Jon is there. He wants Daenerys to aid him in his fight with her dragons. He went against his Lords and Sansa's counsel and went to Dragonstone so that he could persuade Daenerys to send dragons for the Battle for Dawn Part II.
He can't borrow them as such, as he can't control them (As of Episode 5 Season 6, since this looks like I am implying he won't ever be able to control them). But he can ask the person who can control them (Or one of them at any rate) to come with him. | Giant Wights with Large CrossBows like the one seen in S7E4-can slay a dragon. The top of the wall was a lot farther than Bronn was to the dragon with the Scorpion-shooting dragons with large bolts wouldn't be too hard for a giant. |
1,785 | I have now built up a small portfolio of pencil/charcoal drawings. Most of the time they are kept in my folders, but sometimes they are viewed by friends and relatives. And on the odd occasion displayed at the local community hall.
I've started to notice finger marks and tiny smudges on the artwork. As none of pieces are permanently displayed I don't want to frame them.
What is the best way of preserving and protecting my pencil/charcoal art without having to put them behind glass?
One of my friends said that you could use hairspray? Is that the right way to go? | 2016/06/16 | [
"https://crafts.stackexchange.com/questions/1785",
"https://crafts.stackexchange.com",
"https://crafts.stackexchange.com/users/426/"
] | Using a fixative, as described in previous answers here, is a standard way of protecting one's own work. On an acquired piece, you're free to do whatever you want with your own property. However, it would likely negatively affect the market value or historical value of the piece. On a valuable or historical work, fixative might be viewed similar to "vandalism" since it changes the nature and likely the appearance of the work from what the artist created.
Acquired works should be stored in acid-free archival quality flat files between layers of special paper or else professionally framed behind glass. | I remember when I took art lessons when I was a kid. We would spray are drawings with non aerosol hairspray to keep them from getting smudged |
1,785 | I have now built up a small portfolio of pencil/charcoal drawings. Most of the time they are kept in my folders, but sometimes they are viewed by friends and relatives. And on the odd occasion displayed at the local community hall.
I've started to notice finger marks and tiny smudges on the artwork. As none of pieces are permanently displayed I don't want to frame them.
What is the best way of preserving and protecting my pencil/charcoal art without having to put them behind glass?
One of my friends said that you could use hairspray? Is that the right way to go? | 2016/06/16 | [
"https://crafts.stackexchange.com/questions/1785",
"https://crafts.stackexchange.com",
"https://crafts.stackexchange.com/users/426/"
] | Hairspray will work but will yellow over time. Get the Krylon fixative mentioned above. Any hobby store will carry it. You can also use clear varnish from the paint department at a big box store. | I remember when I took art lessons when I was a kid. We would spray are drawings with non aerosol hairspray to keep them from getting smudged |
1,785 | I have now built up a small portfolio of pencil/charcoal drawings. Most of the time they are kept in my folders, but sometimes they are viewed by friends and relatives. And on the odd occasion displayed at the local community hall.
I've started to notice finger marks and tiny smudges on the artwork. As none of pieces are permanently displayed I don't want to frame them.
What is the best way of preserving and protecting my pencil/charcoal art without having to put them behind glass?
One of my friends said that you could use hairspray? Is that the right way to go? | 2016/06/16 | [
"https://crafts.stackexchange.com/questions/1785",
"https://crafts.stackexchange.com",
"https://crafts.stackexchange.com/users/426/"
] | Hairspray definitely works, but I'm not sure whether or not it will yellow over time. You can also buy fixative spray that is artist's quality and presumably tested for its pH and other qualities. | 1. The best way would be to heat laminate the work which doesn't yellow out and also is easy and cheap to get it done.
2. Framing it in a good double glass frame is another way to keep it safe.
3. You could protect the finished work with thin film tapes that are available for mobile lamination which not just protects the work but also will be flexible for carrying just like a paper.
4. Simply covering it tight with a food wrapping film will protect it too. but it sure needs another level of protection over it like a glass frame or so as the film itself is very soft. |
1,785 | I have now built up a small portfolio of pencil/charcoal drawings. Most of the time they are kept in my folders, but sometimes they are viewed by friends and relatives. And on the odd occasion displayed at the local community hall.
I've started to notice finger marks and tiny smudges on the artwork. As none of pieces are permanently displayed I don't want to frame them.
What is the best way of preserving and protecting my pencil/charcoal art without having to put them behind glass?
One of my friends said that you could use hairspray? Is that the right way to go? | 2016/06/16 | [
"https://crafts.stackexchange.com/questions/1785",
"https://crafts.stackexchange.com",
"https://crafts.stackexchange.com/users/426/"
] | Hairspray definitely works, but I'm not sure whether or not it will yellow over time. You can also buy fixative spray that is artist's quality and presumably tested for its pH and other qualities. | Hairspray will work but will yellow over time. Get the Krylon fixative mentioned above. Any hobby store will carry it. You can also use clear varnish from the paint department at a big box store. |
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