text stringlengths 15 160k | label class label 20 classes |
|---|---|
RFD: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.{misc,setup}
This is the official Request for Discussion (RFD) for the creation of two
new newsgroups for Microsoft Windows NT. This is a second RFD, replacing
the one originally posted in January '93 (and never taken to a vote). The
proposed groups are described below:
NAME: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.setup
STATUS: Unmoderated.
PURPOSE: Discussions about setting up and installing Windows NT, and about
system and peripheral compatability issues for Windows NT.
NAME: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.misc
STATUS: Unmoderated.
PURPOSE: Miscellaneous non-programming discussions about using Windows NT,
including issues such as security, networking features, console
mode and Windows 3.1 (Win16) compatability.
RATIONALE:
Microsoft NT is the newest member of the Microsoft Windows family
of operating systems (or operating environments for those who wish
to argue about the meaning of an "OS"). The family ranges from
Modular Windows through Windows 3.1 and Windows for Workgroups to
Windows NT at the high end. To date, Microsoft has shipped over
50,000 beta copies and pre-release SDKs of Windows NT -- the
actual release is slated for May/June '93.
While Windows NT has an entirely new design internally, it shares
an application programming interface with the other members of the
Windows family; its Win32 API includes the Win16 API used in Win-
dows 3.1, and the Win32s API subset (Win32 less threads, networking
and security) can be used to create 32-bit applications for
Windows 3.1.
The user interface is also practically identical to that of Windows
3.1, with the addition of logins and a few other features. It uses
Program Manager, File Manager and other applets, and generally pre-
sents an identical appearance to the user. Many of the announced
Windows NT applications are ports of existing Windows 3.1 apps, and
NT also runs existing 3.1 applications.
Thus, it appears logical that Windows NT should share the following
groups with the other members of the Windows family:
comp.os.ms-windows.apps
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32
The following groups are also clearly applicable to Windows NT as
well as Windows 3.1:
comp.os.ms-windows.announce
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
In conclusion, the only clear argument for the separation of the
Windows 3.1 and Windows NT hierarchies is different internal
structures of Windows 3.1 and Windows NT. And yet operating
systems such as OS/2, Macintosh OS, Xenix and Coherent all have
undergone major rewrites without having been split into separate
newsgroup hierarchies.
Further, Windows 3.1 is due for a major rewrite itself in 1994 --
when the fully 32-bit, protected-mode and with-DOS-built-in next-
generation Windows, "Chicago", debuts next year, surely it should
remain in the same hierarchy. And what, then, would be the jus-
tification for separating Windows NT from other Windows versions?
DISCUSSION PERIOD:
The discussion period will run from 27 April, 1992 to 18 May, 1993.
VOTING:
The CFV (Call for Votes) will be issued around 19 May, 1993, based on
the feedback received during the discussion period. No votes will
be accepted prior to the CFV.
--
[ /tom haapanen -- tomh@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
[ "stick your index fingers into both corners of your mouth. now pull ]
[ up. that's how the corrado makes you feel." -- car, january '93 ]
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
Hardware for image processing
We are doing a research about a passive dynamic vision guided
vehicle.
Completed the first theoric part, we have to make the effective
realization of this vehicle.
We need the necessary hardware for image acquisition from a videocamera
and for their subsequent elaboration (tipically: edge detection).
We ask for informations about available products in the market for
this purpose (in real time, 20-25 frames/second).
Hence we need frame-grabber cards and/or DSP cards for SUN or PC platform.
We are also very interested in receiving comments and suggestions from users
of these cards, especially about programming tools.
Furthermore we are looking for the same kind of informations about
digital controlled Pan&Tilt devices.
Thanks in advance
Best regards
Enrico Fedrigo
fedro@paola.dei.unipd.it
| 3comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware |
USENET Hockey Draft week 26 price list
Here is the price list for the week April 6 to April 12.
- Andrew
Buy Sell Pts Team Player
157.5 141.8 150 PIT Mario_Lemieux
152.1 136.9 143 BUF Pat_LaFontaine
139.3 125.4 131 BOS Adam_Oates
133.8 120.4 129 DET Steve_Yzerman
132.9 119.6 125 WPG Teemu_Selanne
132.9 119.6 125 TOR Doug_Gilmour
130.9 117.8 120 NYI Pierre_Turgeon
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126.0 113.4 117 PHI Mark_Recchi
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66.5 59.9 61 NYR Adam_Graves
66.5 59.9 61 HFD Zarley_Zalapski
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64.9 58.4 61 TOR Glenn_Anderson
64.1 57.7 61 SJ Johan_Garpenlov
63.8 57.4 60 OTT Norm_Maciver
63.0 56.7 60 MTL Mike_Keane
63.0 56.7 60 PIT Shawn_McEachern
62.7 56.4 59 LA Rob_Blake
62.7 56.4 59 LA Wayne_Gretzky
62.5 56.3 58 PHI Garry_Galley
62.5 56.3 58 PHI Brent_Fedyk
61.1 55.0 56 NYI Pat_Flatley
60.6 54.5 57 CGY Sergei_Makarov
60.6 54.5 57 NJ Bernie_Nicholls
60.1 54.1 58 DET Steve_Chiasson
59.5 53.6 56 CHI Steve_Smith
59.5 53.6 56 QUE Scott_Young
59.1 53.2 57 DET Paul_Ysebaert
58.9 53.0 54 NYR Sergei_Nemchinov
58.5 52.7 55 NJ Valeri_Zelepukin
58.2 52.4 54 WSH Pat_Elynuik
58.2 52.4 54 TB John_Tucker
58.2 52.4 54 PHI Kevin_Dineen
57.4 51.7 54 VAN Greg_Adams
56.4 50.8 53 WPG Darrin_Shannon
55.6 50.0 51 NYR Darren_Turcotte
55.3 49.8 52 NJ Scott_Stevens
55.0 48.8 51 CHI Christian_Ruuttu
55.0 48.8 51 VAN Dixon_Ward
55.0 48.8 51 WPG Fredrik_Olausson
55.0 48.2 49 NYR Ed_Olczyk
55.0 47.9 50 WPG Keith_Tkachuk
55.0 47.2 48 NYI Jeff_Norton
55.0 46.9 49 TOR John_Cullen
55.0 46.9 49 VAN Anatoli_Semenov
55.0 46.9 49 CGY Al_MacInnis
55.0 46.9 49 BOS Stephen_Leach
55.0 45.9 48 CHI Brent_Sutter
55.0 45.4 48 MTL Denis_Savard
55.0 45.2 46 HFD Terry_Yake
55.0 45.0 47 NJ John_MacLean
55.0 44.6 46 WSH Sylvain_Cote
55.0 44.0 46 EDM Petr_Klima
55.0 44.0 46 EDM Shayne_Corson
55.0 44.0 46 LA Tomas_Sandstrom
55.0 44.0 46 EDM Craig_Simpson
55.0 43.5 46 MTL Gilbert_Dionne
55.0 43.2 44 NYI Vladimir_Malakhov
55.0 43.0 45 BOS Dave_Poulin
55.0 43.0 45 STL Kevin_Miller
55.0 43.0 45 LA Alexei_Zhitnik
55.0 43.0 45 QUE Martin_Rucinsky
55.0 43.0 45 WPG Evgeny_Davydov
55.0 42.7 44 WSH Kelly_Miller
55.0 42.1 44 EDM Doug_Weight
55.0 42.1 44 EDM Dave_Manson
55.0 41.2 42 HFD Patrick_Poulin
55.0 41.1 43 CHI Michel_Goulet
55.0 40.7 42 PHI Pelle_Eklund
55.0 40.2 42 MIN Mark_Tinordi
55.0 39.7 42 MTL Mathieu_Schneider
55.0 39.2 41 CGY Paul_Ranheim
55.0 39.2 41 EDM Todd_Elik
55.0 39.2 41 BOS Vladimir_Ruzicka
55.0 39.2 41 OTT Sylvain_Turgeon
55.0 37.4 39 TOR Dave_Ellett
55.0 37.4 40 DET Niklas_Lidstrom
55.0 37.4 40 DET Bob_Probert
55.0 36.4 38 NJ Peter_Stastny
55.0 36.4 37 NYR Esa_Tikkanen
55.0 36.4 38 OTT Brad_Shaw
55.0 36.4 38 TOR Wendel_Clark
55.0 36.4 38 BUF Yuri_Khmylev
55.0 35.4 37 VAN Sergio_Momesso
55.0 35.4 37 OTT Bob_Kudelski
55.0 35.4 36 NYR Brian_Leetch
55.0 35.4 37 NJ Bobby_Holik
55.0 34.5 36 TOR Rob_Pearson
55.0 34.5 36 MIN Mike_McPhee
55.0 34.4 35 NYR Alexei_Kovalev
55.0 33.9 35 TB Adam_Creighton
55.0 33.5 35 EDM Zdeno_Ciger
55.0 32.6 34 LA Corey_Millen
55.0 32.6 34 CHI Dirk_Graham
55.0 31.6 33 TOR Peter_Zezel
55.0 30.6 32 BOS Ted_Donato
55.0 30.6 32 QUE Valery_Kamensky
55.0 30.2 32 MTL Gary_Leeman
55.0 29.9 32 DET Keith_Primeau
55.0 29.7 31 BUF Wayne_Presley
55.0 29.7 31 MIN Neal_Broten
55.0 29.7 31 BOS Steve_Heinze
55.0 29.1 30 PHI Josef_Beranek
55.0 28.7 30 CHI Stephane_Matteau
55.0 28.7 30 BUF Richard_Smehlik
55.0 28.7 30 TOR Dmitri_Mironov
55.0 28.4 29 NYI Brian_Mullen
55.0 27.2 28 PHI Dmitri_Yushkevich
55.0 26.8 28 CHI Brian_Noonan
55.0 26.8 28 EDM Scott_Mellanby
55.0 26.5 28 SJ Pat_Falloon
55.0 25.8 27 STL Igor_Korolev
55.0 25.6 26 NYR James_Patrick
55.0 24.8 26 BUF Petr_Svoboda
55.0 23.9 25 OTT Mark_Lamb
55.0 23.2 24 TB Mikael_Andersson
55.0 22.6 23 NYI Scott_LaChance
55.0 22.1 23 EDM Kevin_Todd
55.0 21.3 22 WSH Bob_Carpenter
55.0 21.1 22 TOR Bill_Berg
55.0 21.1 22 WPG Sergei_Bautin
55.0 20.8 22 MTL Benoit_Brunet
55.0 20.6 21 NYI David_Volek
55.0 20.6 21 HFD Mikael_Nylander
55.0 20.1 21 MIN Brent_Gilchrist
55.0 19.6 20 NYR Phil_Bourque
55.0 19.6 20 NYI Ray_Ferraro
55.0 18.6 19 HFD Yvon_Corriveau
55.0 18.2 19 EDM Martin_Gelinas
55.0 17.7 19 DET Jim_Hiller
55.0 17.6 18 NYI Darius_Kasparaitis
55.0 17.5 18 PHI Andrei_Lomakin
55.0 17.2 18 BUF Donald_Audette
55.0 15.5 16 TB Roman_Hamrlik
55.0 15.1 16 SJ Mark_Pederson
55.0 14.2 15 PIT Martin_Straka
55.0 12.4 13 NJ Janne_Ojanen
55.0 12.4 13 OTT Tomas_Jelinek
55.0 11.5 12 CHI Joe_Murphy
55.0 10.8 11 NYR Peter_Andersson
55.0 10.6 11 TB Steve_Kasper
55.0 10.5 11 BOS Cam_Neely
55.0 9.5 10 MIN Bobby_Smith
55.0 9.5 10 SJ Ray_Whitney
55.0 8.8 9 HFD Robert_Petrovicky
55.0 8.6 9 BUF Viktor_Gordijuk
55.0 7.7 8 QUE Mikhail_Tatarinov
55.0 7.7 8 TOR Joe_Sacco
55.0 7.6 8 SJ Peter_Ahola
55.0 6.7 7 CHI Rob_Brown
55.0 6.7 7 BOS Glen_Murray
55.0 5.9 6 HFD Tim_Kerr
55.0 4.9 5 WSH Reggie_Savage
55.0 4.8 5 STL Vitali_Prokhorov
55.0 4.8 5 LA Robert_Lang
55.0 4.8 5 EDM Shaun_Van_Allen
55.0 3.9 4 BOS Jozef_Stumpel
55.0 3.9 4 MIN Dan_Quinn
55.0 3.8 4 PIT Bryan_Fogarty
55.0 3.7 4 DET Viacheslav_Kozlov
55.0 2.9 3 TB Stan_Drulia
55.0 2.9 3 MIN Brian_Propp
55.0 2.9 3 MTL Olav_Petrov
55.0 2.0 2 WSH Jason_Woolley
55.0 1.9 2 NJ Claude_Vilgrain
55.0 0.0 0 VAN Igor_Larionov
55.0 0.0 0 TB Brent_Gretzky
55.0 0.0 0 OTT Alexei_Yashin
55.0 0.0 0 QUE Peter_Forsberg
55.0 0.0 0 EDM Dean_McAmmond
55.0 0.0 0 WSH Brian_Sakic
55.0 0.0 0 WSH Randy_Burridge
55.0 0.0 0 MTL Patrick_Kjellberg
55.0 0.0 0 CGY Cory_Stillman
55.0 0.0 0 CHI Sergei_Krivokrasov
55.0 0.0 0 BUF Jason_Dawe
--
Andrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com
HP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253
During the Roman Era, 28 was considered old...
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
PUBLIC HEARINGS on Ballot Access, Vote Fraud and Other Issues
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Announcing. . . Announcing. . . Announcing. . . Announcing
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
PUBLIC HEARINGS
on the compliance by the
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
and the governments of the states of
FLORIDA, LOUISIANA, ARKANSAS, MISSOURI,
WEST VIRGINIA, NORTH CAROLINA, INDIANA,
MARYLAND, OKLAHOMA, NEVADA, WYOMING,
GEORGIA, AND MAINE
with Certain International Agreements Signed
by the United States Government, in particular,
THE INTERNATIONAL COVENANT ON CIVIL
AND POLITICAL RIGHTS
(signed 5 October 1977)
and the
DOCUMENT OF THE COPENHAGEN MEETING OF THE
CONFERENCE ON THE HUMAN DIMENSION OF THE
CONFERENCE ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION
IN EUROPE
(June 1990)
A Democracy Project of
CELEBRATE LIBERTY!
THE 1993 LIBERTARIAN NATIONAL CONVENTION
AND POLITICAL EXPO
Sept. 2-5, 1993
Salt Palace Convention Center
Marriott Hotel
Salt Lake City, Utah
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
These hearings will investigate charges that the governments
referenced above routinely violate the political and
democratic rights of political minority parties. Persons
interested in testifying at these hearings, or in submitting
written or documentary evidence, should contact:
Bob Waldrop
P.O. Box 526175
Salt Lake City, UT 84152
(801)-582-3318
Bob.Waldrop@f418.n104.z1.fidonet.org
Examples of possible information of interest includes
evidence and testimony regarding:
(1) Unfair or unequal treatment of political minorities;
(2) Physical assaults on volunteers, candidates, or
members of minority parties;
(3) Arrests of minority party petitioners, candidates, or
members while engaged in political activity;
(4) Structural barriers to organizing third parties and/or
running for office as anything other than a Democrat
or Republican (e.g. signature totals required for
petitions to put new parties and candidates on ballots,
requirements for third parties that Democrats and
Republicans are not required to meet, etc.);
(5) Taxpayer subsidies of Democratic and Republican
candidates that are denied or not available to third
parties;
(6) Fraudulent or non-reporting of minority party vote
totals (e.g. stating totals for Democratic and
Republican party candidates as equal to 100% of the
vote);
(7) Refusals by state legislatures, governors, and courts to
hear petitions for redress of grievances from third
parties, and/or unfavorable rulings/laws
discriminating against third parties;
(8) Refusal to allow registration as a member of a third
party when registering to vote (in states where
partisan voter registration is optional or required);
(9) Vote fraud, stuffing ballot boxes, losing ballots, fixing
elections, threatening candidates, ballot printing errors;
machine voting irregularities, dishonest/corrupt
election officials, refusal to register third party voters
or allow filing by third party candidates; failure to
print third party registration options on official voter
registration documents; intimidation of third party
voters and/or candidates; and/or any other criminal
acts by local, county, state or federal election officials;
(10) Exclusion of third party candidates from debate
forums sponsored by public schools, state colleges and
universities, and governments (including events
carried on television and radio stations owned and/or
subsidized by governments;
(11) Any other information relevant to the topic.
Information is solicited about incidents relating to all non-
Democratic and non-Republican political parties, such as
Libertarian, New Alliance, Socialist Workers Party, Natural
Law Party, Taxpayers, Populist, Consumer, Green, American,
Communist, etc., as well as independent candidates such as
John Anderson, Ross Perot, Eugene McCarthy, Barry
Commoner, etc.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Representatives of the governments referenced above will be
invited to respond to any allegations.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
RELEVANT SECTIONS OF THE DOCUMENT OF THE
COPENHAGEN MEETING REFERENCED ABOVE:
"(The participating States) recognize that pluralistic
democracy and the rule of law are essential for ensuring
respect for all human rights and fundamental freedoms. . .
They therefore welcome the commitment expressed by all
participating States to the ideals of democracy and political
pluralism. . . The participating States express their conviction
that full respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms
and the development of societies based on pluralistic
democracy. . . are prerequisites for progress in setting up the
lasting order of peace, security, justice, and co-operation. . .
They therefore reaffirm their commitment to implement fully
all provisions of the Final Act and of the other CSCE
documents relating to the human dimension. . . In order to
strengthen respect for, and enjoyment of, human rights and
fundamental freedoms, to develop human contacts and to
resolve issues of a related humanitarian character, the
participating States agree on the following. . .
"(2). . . They consider that the rule of law does not mean
merely a formal legality which assures regularity and
consistency in the achievement and enforcement of
democratic order, but justice based on the recognition and
full acceptance of the supreme value of the human
personality and guaranteed by institutions providing a
framework for its fullest expression."
"(3) They reaffirm that democracy is an inherent element of
the rule of law. They recognize the importance of pluralism
with regard to political organizations."
"(4) They confirm that they will respect each other's right
freely to choose and develop, in accordance with
international human rights standards, their political, social,
economic and cultural systems. In exercising this right, they
will ensure that their laws, regulations, practices, and policies
conform with their obligations under international law and
are brought into harmony with the provisions of the
Declaration on Principles and other CSCE commitments."
"(5) They solemnly declare that among those elements of
justice which are essential to the full expression of the
inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all
human beings are the following. . ."
". . . (5.4) -- a clear separation between the State and political
parties; in particular, political parties will not be merged with
the state. . ."
". . . (7) To ensure that the will of the people serves as
the basis of the authority of government, the participating
states will. . ."
"(7.4) -- ensure . . . that (votes) are counted and reported
honestly with the official results made public;"
"(7.5) -- respect the right of citizens to seek political or public
office, individually or as representatives of political parties or
organizations, without discrimination."
RELEVANT SECTIONS OF THE
INTERNATIONAL COVENANT OF 5 OCTOBER 1977
REFERENCED ABOVE
The States Parties to the present Covenant. . . Recognizing
that. . . the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and
political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only
be achieved if conditions are created whereby everyone may
enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic,
social, and cultural rights, Considering the obligation of
States under the Charter of the United Nations to promote
universal respect for, and observance of, human rights and
freedoms. . . Agree upon the following articles. . .
Article 2. (1) Each State Party to the present Covenant
undertakes to respect and to ensure to all individuals within
its territory and subject to its jurisdiction the rights
recognized in the present Covenant, without distinction of
any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion,
political or other opinion, national or social origin, property,
birth, or other status.
(2) Where not already provided for by existing legislative or
other measures, each State Party to the present Covenant
undertakes to take the necessary steps, in accordance with its
constitutional processes and with the provisions of the
present Covenant, to adopt such legislative or other measures
as may be necessary to give effect to the rights recognized in
the present Covenant. . .
Article 3. The States Parties to the present Covenant
undertake to ensure the equal right of men and women to
the enjoyment of all civil and political rights set forth in the
present Covenant. . .
Article 25. Every citizen shall have the right and the
opportunity, without any of the distinctions mentioned in
article 2 and without unreasonable restrictions: (a) to take
part in the conduct of public affairs, directly or through
freely chosen representatives; (b) to vote and to be elected at
genuine periodic elections which shall be by universal and
equal suffrage and shall be held by secret ballot,
guaranteeing the free expression of the will of the electors; (c)
to have access, on general terms of equality, to public service
in his country.
Article 26. All persons are equal before the law and are
entitled without any discrimination to the equal protection of
the law. In this respect, the law shall prohibit any
discrimination and guarantee to all persons equal and
effective protection against discrimination on any ground
such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other
opinion, national or social origin, property, birth, or other
status.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
There will be no peace without freedom.
Think Globally -- Act Locally.
Resist Much. Obey Little.
Question Authority.
Comments from Bob Waldrop are the responsibility of Bob
Waldrop! For a good time call 415-457-6388.
E-Mail: Bob.Waldrop@f418.n104.z1.fidonet.org
Snail Mail: P.O. Box 526175
Salt Lake City, Utah 84152-6175
United States of America
Voice Phone: (801) 582-3318
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Newsgroups: alt.society.foia,alt.society.futures,alt.society.revolution,alt.society.sovereign,alt.suburbs,alt.sustainable.agriculture,alt.true-crime,alt.war,alt.whine,general
X-Sequence: 8
Subject: Celebrate Liberty! 1993
Reply-To: Bob.Waldrop@f418.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Waldrop)
From: Bob.Waldrop@f418.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Waldrop)
Summary:
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Distribution: world
Organization: Morning Glory Productions, SLC, UT
X-Telephone: 801-582-3318
X-Us-Mail: P.O. Box 526175, Salt Lake City, UT 84152
Keywords:
Announcing. . . Announcing. . . Announcing. . .Announcing. . .
CELEBRATE LIBERTY!
1993 LIBERTARIAN PARTY NATIONAL CONVENTION
AND POLITICAL EXPO
THE MARRIOTT HOTEL AND THE SALT PALACE
SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH
INCLUDES INFORMATION ON DELEGATE DEALS!
(Back by Popular Demand!)
The convention will be held at the Salt Palace Convention Center and the
Marriott Hotel, Salt Lake City, Utah. The business sessions, Karl Hess
Institute, and Political Expo are at the Salt Palace; breakfasts, parties, and
banquet are at the Marriott Hotel.
Marriott Hotel room rates are $79.00 night, plus 10.5% tax ($87.17 total).
This rate is good for one to four persons room occupancy. Double is one
or two beds; 3 or 4 people is 2 beds. You can make your reservations
direct with the hotel (801-531-0800), or you can purchase your room
through one of MGP's payment plans. MGP will provide assistance in
matching roommates if requested.
August 30, 31, Sept. 1: Everything You Always Wanted to
Know About Winning Elections, but
Didn't Know Where to Ask!
Three days of intensive campaign training conducted by Sal Guzzetta, a
25 year veteran of more than 200 campaigns. Students receive 990 pages
of professional campaign manuals. Everything from strategy and
targeting to opposition research, fundraising, and field operations.
Price: $150 if purchased by May 1, 1993
$175 thereafter
August 31 and Sept. 1: Platform, Bylaws, Credentials and
National committee meetings.
Shoot out in Salt Lake! PLEDGE versus Committee for a Libertarian
Majority. Will the party's membership and platform definitions change?
Is compromise possible? The Platform and Bylaws committees are
responsible for making recommendations to the convention concerning
changes in those documents. At this convention, the party will only
consider deletions to the platform. The Convention Rules would have to
be amended by a 2/3 vote to change this rule.
The meetings are open to the public. There is no charge for attending.
Sept. 2-5, 1993: Celebrate Liberty! Begins
Political Expo Opens
Sept. 2, 1993: 9 AM -- Credentials Committee report to the delegates.
10:30 -- Gala Opening Ceremony and Keynote Address
by Russell Means.
1:00 -- After lunch break, convention business continues
(see "Standing Order of Business" from the "Convention
Rules of the Libertarian Party" at the end of this
document.
Karl Hess Institute of Libertarian Politics Begins, runs in
tandem with the business sessions.
Sept. 3, 1993: Dawns Early Light, Green Dragon Inn (morning and
evening), with Karl Hess Institute and convention
business in between.
Sept. 4, 1993: Dawns Early Light, Freedom Rock '93, Karl Hess
Institute, convention business.
Sept. 5, 1993: Dawns Early Light, Convention Banquet, Karl Hess
Institute, convention business, Joyful Noise.
ACTIVITY DESCRIPTIONS:
DAWNS EARLY
LIGHT Three great convention breakfasts to start your days
right, featuring science fiction author L. Neil Smith,
psychiatrist and author Dr. Thomas Szasz, and South
African Libertarian leader Frances Kendall.
GREEN DRAGON
INN "Opening night" party, named after the famous inn
where Sam Adams and his crowd plotted trouble for the
British over pints of ale and beer. Music, food, drink,
and comedy.
FREEDOM
ROCK '93 Free downtown rock concert Friday night, with drum
circle, comic Tim Slagle, Middle Eastern dancer, reggae,
and local classic rock-n-roll bands. Will be widely
publicized in the local area. Major outreach opportunity.
BANQUET Vivaldi and Mozart, fine dining, in the elegant Marriott
Grand Ballroom (black tie optional). Dancing follows.
POLITICAL
EXPO Exhibits and vendors. FREE admission. Event will be
widely publicized in local area for maximum draw.
Major Outreach opportunity.
KARL HESS INSTITUTE OF LIBERTARIAN POLITICS
Workshops, speakers, roundtable discussions in these areas:
LIBERTY: NEXT
GENERATION High school and college age Libertarians talk
about what matters to them and the 20-
something generation.
AGENDA 2000 Considers key issues of the 1990s. Environment.
Health Care. 21st Century Economics. Drug
War. Second Amendment. Social Services.
Foreign Policy. Crime & Violence. AIDS.
THE GREAT DEBATE LP Strategy and tactics. Media. Ballot Access.
Initiatives. Feminist Issues. Presidential
Campaigns. LP Elected Officials. Grassroots.
Early look at the 1996 presidential nomination.
VALUES FOR
THE 90s Community. Children. Abundance. Home
Schooling. Religion and Liberty. Race.
CAMPUS FOCUS Organizing. Academia. Blue Collar Youth.
CONVENTION PACKAGE DESCRIPTIONS AND PRICES
TOTAL EVENT: All activities, Aug. 30-Sept. 5, $400, including 3
day candidate training
Full Celebration: All convention activities, Sept. 2-5, $300
Late Riser No breakfasts, everything else Sept. 2-5, $250
Thrift No breakfasts or banquet, $150
Issues Focus Karl Hess Institute, $125
Basic Convention packet, souvenirs, two Karl Hess
Institute speakers
Free Political Expo, Access to convention hall,
Keynote Address, Joyful Noise, Freedom Rock
'93, three free outreach speakers.
PLEASE NOTE:
-- PRICES INCREASE MAY 1, 1993
-- Special student prices are available to anyone under 25 years of
age or who is enrolled in a college or university.
-- Six and seven month payment plans are available which can
include housing (if requested).
-- To add the three day candidate training to any package below
(except "Total Event"), add $150 to the price.
-- All prices are in U.S. dollars.
-- Advertising is available in the convention program; exhibits and
sponsorships are available for the Political Expo. Free Political
Expo admission and MGP promotions will draw visitors from the
surrounding community (one million people live within a 30
minute drive of the Expo).
-- If your special interest group, organization, committee, or cause
would like to schedule space for a presentation, contact us.
-- MGP conducts a drawing each month and gives away FREE
hotel nights. The sooner you register, the more chances you have
to win.
-- Roommate match service available upon request.
OTHER EVENTS:
"Anti-Federalist Two" MGP sponsored writing contest. June
submission deadline. Contact MGP for
prospectus.
"The Libertarian
Games" Friendly competition -- marksmanship, computer
programming, chess, maybe more.
Libertarians for Gay &
Lesbian Concerns Business meeting, social night, sponsored by
LGLC.
??? YOUR EVENT CAN BE LISTED HERE. Contact
MGP for details.
ATTENTION COLLEGE STUDENTS!
Special discounts are available for college and high school students. We
will work on casual housing opportunities for the "Poverty Caucus".
College Libertarians will meet at Celebrate Liberty! and discuss the future
of their movement on campuses. Contact MGP for more details.
LIST OF SPEAKERS
(as of March 14, 1993):
Dean Ahmad Jim Hudler Sheldon Richman
Karen Allard Jeff Hummel Kathleen Richman
Rick Arnold Alexander Joseph Dan Rosenthal
Dr. George Ayittey Frances Kendall Dr. Mary Ruwart
Alan Boch Martin Luther King Dagny Sharon
Richard Boddie Me-Me King Jane Shaw
Gus Dizerega Henry Lamb Sandy Shaw
Larry Dodge Amy Lassen L. Neil Smith
Dr. Richard Ebeling Scott Lieberman Eric Sterling
Don Ernsberger Dr. Nancy Lord Dr. Richard Stroup
Bill Evers Russell Means Dr. Thomas Szasz
Bonnie Flickenger Vince Miller Michael Tanner
John Fund Maury Modine Sojourner Truth
Doris Gordon David Nolan Yuri Tuvim
Leon Hadar Randall O'Toole Bob Waldrop
Patrick Henry James Ostrowski Terree Wasley
Karl Hess Dirk Pearson Perry Willis
Dr. Karl Hess Jr. Bob Poole Richard Winger
Jacob Honrberger Carole Ann Rand Jarret Wollstein
Brigham Young
UPCOMING CONVENTION DEVELOPMENTS!
On May 1st, prices increase for convention packages, candidate training,
and exhibits/advertising:
New prices for convention packages will be:
Total Event: $450
Full Celebration: $350
Late Riser: $275
Thrift: $175
Issues Focus: $150
Basic: $30
Free: $0
These prices good through July 2, 1993.
BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND!
ANNOUNCING THE DELEGATE DEALS!
Available May 1, 1993
I: Business Focus: All convention activities except Karl Hess
Institute -- $275
II: Delegate Celebration, includes a complete set of Karl Hess
Institute audio tapes instead of institute tickets -- $350
STANDING ORDER OF BUSINESS FOR
A LIBERTARIAN PARTY CONVENTION
1. Call to order
2. Credentials Committee report
3. Adoption of agenda
4. Treasurer's report
5. Bylaws and Rules Committee report (Non-nominating conventions
only)
6. Platform Committee report (At non-Presidential nominating
conventions only deletions may be considered.)
7. Nomination of Party candidates for President and
Vice-President (in appropriate years)
8. Election of Party Officers and at-large members
of the National Committee
9. Election of Judicial Committee
10. Resolutions
11. Other business
FOR QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS,
GRUMBLES OR GRINS,
SUGGESTIONS OR CRITICISM,
AND
TO REGISTER,
CONTACT:
MORNING GLORY PRODUCTIONS, INC.
P.O. Box 526175
Salt Lake City, UT 84152
801.582.3318
E-mail: Bob.Waldrop@f418.n104.z1.fidonet.org
Make Checks Payable to Morning Glory Productions, Inc.
--
Don't blame me; I voted Libertarian.
Disclaimer: I speak for myself, except as noted; Copyright 1993 Rich Thomson
UUCP: ...!uunet!dsd.es.com!rthomson Rich Thomson
Internet: rthomson@dsd.es.com IRC: _Rich_ PEXt Programmer
| 16talk.politics.guns |
Re: Where did the hacker ethic go?
I think the main reason is that in the good old hacker days of the young(er)
Gates' and Jobs' of the world, the computer was not as widespread a
phenomenom as it is now. With the increased popularity of the PC
come a plethora of mundane business uses which required more practical
minded and narrower-focused programmers.
Why be a hacker when you can get a good job programming databases or
programs for accountants? Basically, the yuppies caught up and
disciplined the hackers, and molded them in their own image.
--
Carl Christensen /~~\_/~\ ,,, Dept. of Computer Science
christen@astro.ocis.temple.edu | #=#==========# | Temple University
"Curiouser and curiouser!" - LC \__/~\_/ ``` Philadelphia, PA USA
| 1comp.graphics |
Countersteering sans Hands
So how do I steer when my hands aren't on the bars? (Open Budweiser in left
hand, Camel cigarette in the right, no feet allowed.) If I lean, and the
bike turns, am I countersteering? Is countersteering like benchracing only
with a taller seat, so your feet aren't on the floor?
-Rick
| 8rec.motorcycles |
Re: The Inimitable Rushdie
In article <115468@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
|> In article <1qg79g$kl5@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|>
|> >You are amazed that I find it difficult to grasp it when
|> >people justify death-threats against Rushdie with the
|> >claim "he was born Muslim?"
|>
|> This is empty rhetoric. I am amazed at your inability to understand what
|> I am saying not that you find it difficult to "grasp it when people
|> justify death-threats...". I find it amazing that your ability to
|> consider abstract questions in isolation. You seem to believe in the
|> falsity of principles by the consequence of their abuse. You must *hate*
|> physics!
You're closer than you might imagine. I certainly despised living
under the Soviet regime when it purported to organize society according
to what they fondly imagined to be the "objective" conclusions of
Marxist dialectic.
But I don't hate Physics so long as some clown doesn't start trying
to control my life on the assumption that we are all interchangeable
atoms, rather than individual human beings.
jon.
| 0alt.atheism |
Re: Israeli Terrorism
As someone who reads Israeli newpapaers every day, I can state
with absolute certainty, that anybody who relies on western media
to get a picture of what is happening in Israel is not getting an
accurate picture. There is tremendous bias in those stories that
do get reported. And the stories that NEVER get mentioned create
a completely false picture of the mideast.
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time
In article <C5HqJ0.57@unix.amherst.edu> bhtulin@unix.amherst.edu (Barak H. Tulin) writes:
>I just started reading this thread today, so forgive me if it has already been
>mentioned. But...what was the deal with Renault's putting the horn on the
>left-hand turn-signal stalk? It was a button on the end, where the washer
>button would be on the wiper/washer stalk. Could the Frenchies not figure
>out the wiring through the steering wheel, or what?
Ford tried that also, back in 1983. My 1983 Ranger Pickup had the horn at
the end of the turn-signal stalk, instead of in the center of the wheel where
God intended it to be. :-) I drove two different cars then (the other an
1984 Camry), and never did get used to pushing the turn-signal stalk to
blow the horn. The only time I got it right was when I was getting the
annual state-required safety inspection!
Not one of Ford's better ideas.
--
Dick Grady Salem, NH, USA grady@world.std.com
So many newsgroups, so little time!
| 7rec.autos |
Re: Help me adjust my tappits
In rec.motorcycles, sheppamj@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Matthew Sheppard) writes:
>All our local 'experts' say it's the tappits that need some adjusting so
>I am soon to attempt that. I would like any advice anyone had. I do
>not have a shop manual but have read about the procedure in Chiltons and
>in a few other places. Is there anything I need to be particularaly
>carful of? Any problems anyone else has encountered?
I would stongly recommend a factory service manual, and if you are not
an experienced machanic then get a chiltons or haynes (sp?) ALSO.
Make sure the bike has cooled at least 6 hours since being run.
Read the books and if you have more questions you could mail me.
Also, be very careful when tightening valve cover bolts. They take
very little torque and breaking one is disaster.
Rich Sturges
Falls Church, VA
| 8rec.motorcycles |
Re: Let's build software cryptophones for over the internet...
In article <1rf04s$jqu@sol.TIS.COM> mjr@tis.com (Marcus J Ranum) writes:
: I'd really like to see such a thing developed so that interactive
:internet talk radio could be done. Ideally, though, it should be a general
:purpose device. It should be a general purpose enough device that nobody
:should be able to balk at its widespread use. Obviously, to make it easy
:for homebrewers, it should use pretty common hardware.
I suggest we start with the ubiquitous Sun, to get a lot of momentum
going. Custom hardware isn't going to go anywhere until there's a
user base.
: Anyone interested? I'll start a provisional mailing list. Let
:me know if you want on.
Count me in. I need someone at the US end to experiment on the
protocols with, and I like the way you code. Give me 3 weeks to
move house and settle in then we'll go for it seriously...
G
| 11sci.crypt |
Re: Why circuit boards are green?
kuusama@kaarne.cs.tut.fi (Kuusama Juha,,,VTT,) writes:
>Not that the question is anything important, but I am still curious:
>Why is that almost all printed circuit boards are green? I have seen
>a few blue ones, but no red, yellow, company logo etc. Is there a
>technical reason or could it be that the marketing "geniuses" have
>not tought about it (yet)?
The green layer is a solder-mask, and is used to make a finished board
look neat, and to avoid solder bridges, especially when using wave
soldering (or any other mechanized approach). I've seen red mask,
but most that I've seen are green.
A bakelite board will look brown in colour, and, if the solder mask
is put on, looks like a brown board with green 'paint' on either side
(or just one side) of the board.
A fibreglass board will look green from the side, because the green
solder-mask makes the board appear that colour. If you got a fibreglass
board with no mask, it would be a whitish-grey colour.
Teflon boards do exist, as well... but I'm not sure about that one.
I'd guess the stuff they invented for solder mask was green, so they're
not about to change. Also, any change in any chemical probably requires
a better than normal cleaning of the machines that make boards. A lot
of companies do not make their own boards... they ship them to a real
boardhouse.
| 12sci.electronics |
Re: Royals
In article <spork.735077099@camelot> spork@camelot.bradley.edu (Richard Izzo) writes:
B.S. about darkness deleted.
> Oh, lighten up. What depresses me is that they might actually
>finish last, which I believe hasn't happened since their second season in
>1970.
nope The Royals are the only team in the majors that have not
finished in last place. ^^^^ Of course this doesn't include
the marlins and the rockies but they have a good chance at
finishing last also.
>rich.
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach
In article <May.14.02.11.26.1993.25198@athos.rutgers.edu> db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler) writes:
>Michael Siemon writes:
>Protestants love to play up Jerome for all he is worth.
Yes, but no more than he is worth. :-). Seriously: Jerome is merely
(and grandly) another Christian witness, to be taken for what he can
tell us. He is one in the community of saints. You seem to wish for
a greater polarization and dichotomy between Catholic and Protestant
thought than seems to me, from a historical perspective, to be valid.
To be sure, Rome rejects (some significant aspects of) Protestant
thought just as vehemently as Protestants reject (some significant
aspects of) Roman thought. Other than some peoplw who apparently try
to embody the greatest extreme of this rejection, on either side, there
is not quite so vast a gulf fixed as casual observers seem to assume.
Ecumenical consultations between Rome and the Lutherans, as well as
those between Rome and the Anglican communion (to which I belong) show
very nearly complete convergence on understanding the basic theological
issues -- the sticking points tend to be ecclesiology and church polity.
Thus, for example, as you go on to say:
> They should
>remeber that after the Decree of Pope St. Damsus I,
Many of us do not regard a papal decretal as having any necessary (as
opposed to political) significance. Sometimes it will, sometimes it
won't. You misread me if you think that my communion, at least, "throws
out" the deuterocanonical books. Nor do I think you should overstress
the sense in which the more Reformed may do so.
>Again, why must the Church of Jesus Christ adopt the canon of the
>unbelieving Jews, drawn up in Jamnia in 90 AD, in countering the
>Christian use of the Septuagint. ^^^^^
I seriously suggest you rethink what you are saying here. It verges on,
and could be taken as, anti-Semitic in the worst sense. The "unbelieving"
Jews were, according to what I understand as a Christian, the chosen
people of God, and the recipients of His pre-Incarnational revelation.
I think they have some say in the matter. The Javneh meeting should not
be over-interpreted. A recent magisterial study titled _Mikra_ (I don't
have more citation information on hand, sorry) produced primarily from
the background of Christian (rather than specifically Jewish) scholarship
suggests strongly that the Javneh meeting mostly resolved a lingering
question, where in practice the canon had long been fixed on the basis
of the scrolls that were kept in the Temple, and thereby "made the hands
unclean" when used. The list of "sacred books" that may be drawn up from
Josephus and other pre-Yavneh sources correspond (plus or minus one book,
if I rememeber the chapter correctly) to the current Jewish canon of Tanakh.
All of this is not to "throw out" the deuterocanonicals (what, by the way,
is YOUR position about the books the Greeks accept and Rome does not? :-))
-- just to observe that the issue is complex and simply binary judgment
does not do it justice.
>
>Andy Byler
--
Michael L. Siemon I say "You are gods, sons of the
mls@panix.com Most High, all of you; nevertheless
- or - you shall die like men, and fall
mls@ulysses.att..com like any prince." Psalm 82:6-7
| 15soc.religion.christian |
Hallicrafters S120
I have a Hallicrafters S120 SW radio for sale. Worked the last time I
tried it out. Make offer.
MD
--
-- Michael P. Deignan / Sex is hereditary. If your
-- Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com / parents never had it, chances
-- AT&TNet: +1 401 273 4669 / are you won't either...
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347 /
| 6misc.forsale |
Re: HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days
SOmebody mentioned a re-boost of HST during this mission, meaning
that Weight is a very tight margin on this mission.
How will said re-boost be done?
Grapple, HST, stow it in Cargo bay, do OMS burn to high altitude,
unstow HST, repair gyros, costar install, fix solar arrays,
then return to earth?
My guess is why bother with usingthe shuttle to reboost?
why not grapple, do all said fixes, bolt a small liquid fueled
thruster module to HST, then let it make the re-boost. it has to be
cheaper on mass then usingthe shuttle as a tug. that way, now that
they are going to need at least 5 spacewalks, then they can carry
an EDO pallet, and sit on station and even maybe do the solar array
tilt motor fix.
pat
| 14sci.space |
RE: Game Length (was Re: Braves Update!!
In article <21APR93.19584618@vax.clarku.edu>, hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
writes...
>ecaxron@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Graham) writes:
>>I think that, everything else being equal, it's not too much to ask that
>>if a weeknight game can be shortened by half-an-hour by cutting out warmup
>>pitches, dawdling outside the batter's box, commercial time-outs and that
>>sort of thing, I'm not asking for too much.
>How do you know they can be shortened by half-an-hour? Has anybody done a
>study to determine how much time is actually "wasted" -- say, in these A's
>games?
Oh, probably.
Ms. Nichols has given the average game times (and average runs scored) for
1983 and 1992. (A very nice piece of information, Ms. Nichols. Who knows?
She may be listening, and not have me in her kill file after all.) Those
numbers indicate somewhere in the neighborhood of half-a-run *less* being
scored per game, and the games taking 15 minutes *longer*. Something is
being done now that wasn't done ten years ago, which is extending the games
by 15 minutes. Ms. Nichols thinks it's more pitches. Given the increasing
specialization of pitchers, it wouldn't surprise me.
If it's not simply more pitches, though, I don't think it's unreasonable
to think that something can be done to get ten of those minutes back. Then
I get a couple more from shortening the warmup time for a relief pitcher
after he comes in, and a couple more still from enforcing existing rules,
which have been stated in other posts in this thread (and other related ones).
The problem is, who decides whether that time is "wasted?" You don't seem
to think it is at all. Right now, I think it is, although I have heard one
case favoring giving the reliever all the warmups he thinks he needs (the
difference in mounds between the field and pen) -- but who knows? If the
rules get changed, maybe something I didn't foresee will happen to change my
mind. But you can bet a lot of minds would fail to foresee the same thing,
or else nothing will be changed.
RG
"I can play me better than anyone. There's only one of me."
- Barry Bonds, on playing himself in two movies
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
univesa driver
I got the univesa driver available over the net. I thought that finally
my 1-meg oak board would be able to show 680x1024 256 colors. Unfortunately a
program still says that I can't do this. Is it the fault of the program (fractint)
or is there something wrong with my card.
univesa- a free driver available over the net that makes many boards
vesa compatible.
| 1comp.graphics |
Re: Courier vs Sportster
da416@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Andy Nicola) writes:
{>
{> In a previous article, cs3sd3ae@maccs.mcmaster.ca (Holly KS) says:
{>
{> >What is the difference between the US Robotics Courier v32bis external and t
{> >Sportster 14400 external? I see that the price of a Sportster has dramatical
{> >dropped to below $200 but the price of the Courier remains above $400.
{> >
{> >Anyone with knowledge of both of these modems or anyone that owns a Courier?
{>
{> The Sportster at 14.4 has v.42 error control and v.42 bis data compression.
{> This is becoming standard on all these high speed modems. The difference
{> with the Courier, is that it can run at 16.8 and only in the HST mode.
The courrier will not run at 16800 only the Dual Standard HST (the USR
modem over $600) my courrier will do up to 14,400 and with compression
error correction, much more. it will do v.32 v.32bis v.42 v.42bis
v.22 etc. etc and ASL too. (whatever asl is)
-David
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
China Cat BBS c-cat!david@sed.csc.com
(301)604-5976 1200-14,400 8N1 ...uunet!mimsy!anagld!c-cat!david
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| 3comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware |
Re: 14 Apr 93 God's Promise in 1 John 1: 7
On 15 Apr 1993 22:34:40 GMT, Eric Sieferman observed:
: Christian: washed in the blood of the lamb.
: Mithraist: washed in the blood of the bull.
: If anyone in .netland is in the process of devising a new religion,
: do not use the lamb or the bull, because they have already been
: reserved. Please choose another animal, preferably one not
: on the Endangered Species List.
How about "washed in the blood of Barney the Dinosaur"? :)
--
Michael D. Adams (starowl@a2i.rahul.net)
| 19talk.religion.misc |
Solution: Why do I need "xrdb -m" when .Xdefaults unchanged?
The short answer seems to be: "I don't".
The particular package (wscrawl) seems to reset *all* its defaults
if *any* of them are missing from the .Xdefaults file. Once I added
the missing ones to the .Xdefaults file, the problem goes away.
-Kevin
--
Kevin Weinrich Computer Sciences Corp.
kbw@helios.ath.epa.gov
| 5comp.windows.x |
I've lost COM4... ! Help!!!
I have a 386 clone, and an internal modem set to COM4.
It worked fine until I upgraded to DOS 6.0 and at the
same time reloaded Windows 3.1 Now the system can't
find COM4; MSD says COM4 is "N/A", and three of my
four comm programs say "hardware not present" or some
similar error message. Procomm, however, finds the modem
no problem and works fine! Curiouser and curiouser. Any
hints/help? Thanks.
Mike
m14494@mwvm.mitre.org
******************************
* These are my opinions only.*
******************************
| 3comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware |
Asante Ethernet Adapter for LCIII Math Chip
Hi,
I have been told by a local sales that Asante has come out with this
LCIII PDS Ethernet adapter with an optional 68882 socket on the board.
My question is will the FPU performance degrade will I put the 68882
on the PDS card socket instead of on the motherboard itself? Intuitively,
the math co-processor should always be placed close to the CPU, but
I am not sure how good Apple's so-called processor-direct slot is when
it comes to throughout. Does anyone know the answer to this or have
any experience with the Asante LCIII Ethernet adapter? Thanks in advance.
Andy
--
Andy Sun (andy@ie.utoronto.ca) 4 Taddle Creek Road, Toronto
Computing Coordinator Ontario, Canada. M5S 1A4
Department of Industrial Engineering Phone: (416) 978-8830
University of Toronto Fax: (416) 978-3453
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
Re: Objective morality (was Re: <Political Atheists?)
livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
>In another part of this thread, you've been telling us that the
>"goal" of a natural morality is what animals do to survive.
That's right. Humans have gone somewhat beyond this though. Perhaps
our goal is one of self-actualization.
>But suppose that your omniscient being told you that the long
>term survival of humanity requires us to exterminate some
>other species, either terrestrial or alien.
Now you are letting an omniscient being give information to me. This
was not part of the original premise.
>Does that make it moral to do so?
Which type of morality are you talking about? In a natural sense, it
is not at all immoral to harm another species (as long as it doesn't
adversely affect your own, I guess).
keith
| 0alt.atheism |
Re: Need advice for riding with someone on pillion
Don't find out if she has to pee by scaring it out of her.
Don't armorall the seat just before her first ride even if you think
you will need its urine-proofing qualities.
Henry Prange - biker/renal physiologist
Physiology/IU Sch. Med., Blgtn., 47405
DoD #0821; BMWMOA #11522; GSI #215
ride = '92 R100GS; '91 RX-7 conv = cage/2; '91 Explorer = cage*2
The four tenets of all major religions:
1. I am right. 2. You are wrong. 3. Hence, you deserve to be punished.
4. By me.
| 8rec.motorcycles |
Detroit Tigers
The roar at Michigan and Trumbull should be loader than ever this year. With
Mike Illitch at the head and Ernie Harwell back at the booth, the tiger bats
will bang this summer. Already they have scored 20 runs in two games and with
Fielder, Tettleton, and Deer I think they can win the division. No pitching!
Bull! Gully, Moore, Wells, and Krueger make up a decent staff that will keep
the team into many games. Then there is Henneman to close it out. Watch out
Boston, Toronto, and Baltimore - the Motor City Kittys are back.
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
What was Koresh's messsage?
Dear netters
I am wondering about the accident of Koresh. I have heard different
explanations.
Without any explanation about your opinions and believes,
please kindly tell me:
1)- What was Koresh talking about?. (Or what was his message)
2)- What was the main reason that Government went in war with
Koresh?
(Some say that due to Tax payment, ....)
Thanks in advance for your historical explanation.
Kaamran
| 19talk.religion.misc |
Driver for Panasonic KX-P4430
Greetings!
I am looking pro a Win 3.1 printer driver for the Panasonic laser printer
KX-P4430. (I am not sure about the order of the first letters in the
name, but the numbers are right and they are important.) I have found
drivers for Panasonic printers 4450 and so on, but I think there should
be drivers available where the 4430 model is included.
Grateful for any help!
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kjell@hut.fi kjell@niksula.hut.fi kjell@vipunen.hut.fi
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
Re: An Open Letter to Mr. Clinton
strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
> Here's a simple way to convert the Clipper proposal to an unexceptionable
> one: Make it voluntary.
As usually, you are not reading. The proposal -does- say that it is a
"voluntary program". This doesn't make it more desirable, though...
> That is--you get high quality secure NSA classified technology if you agree
> to escrow your key. Otherwise you are on your own.
"Secure"? How do you know? Because NSA is trying to make you believe it?
"Trust us." Yeah, right.
"Otherwise you are on your own"? How do you know that tomorrow they
will not outlaw encrypring devices that don't use "their" technology?
Because they are promising you? Gee, they are not doing even that -
read the proposal again.
Regards,
Vesselin
--
Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Tel.:+49-40-54715-224, Fax: +49-40-54715-226 Fachbereich Informatik - AGN
< PGP 2.2 public key available on request. > Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C
e-mail: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de D-2000 Hamburg 54, Germany
| 11sci.crypt |
TCP/IP routing LocalTalk-Ethernet.
Here is the story:
I have a network with 4 Macs on Localtalk. One of them has an
Ethernet Card, and is currently connected to a NeXT (don't laugh
I got it for the price of a Mac IIsi). The NeXT is connected
to the internet over SLIP running on a 9600 baud modem.
Currently, we can telnet from the Mac w/ Ethernet to the NeXT,
and then telnet out again to the rest of the world.
What we want to know is if there is some sort of hardware that
will route telnet sessions from the Localtalk Macs to the NeXT
via the Ethernet Mac. From what we have heard, AIR doesn't do
the trick.
Software solutions would be good too, but my impression is that
there aren't going to be any.
Our immediate interest is to be able to get to the NeXT and telnet
out again. The SLIP connection doesn't allow us to assign IP numbers
to machines, so everyone shares that 1 number...oh well...
thanks in advance.
--
_______________________________________________________________
Benjamin S. Chuang/ITD-CSS Consultant/University of Michigan:A2
Benjamin.Chuang@um.cc.umich.edu (consulting & referals here)
bchuang@css.itd.umich.edu (Unix and long messages here)
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
TEXAS HB 1776 - VOTING IS TODAY
I just called Texas' legislative bill tracking service and found out
that HB 1776 (Concealed Carry) is scheduled for a floor vote TODAY!
Let those phone calls roll in.
Daryl
Daryl Biberdorf N5GJM d-biberdorf@tamu.edu
+ Sola Gratia + Sola Fide + Sola Scriptura
| 16talk.politics.guns |
ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding
The most recent reason given by the Clinton Administration for
calling for federally funded abortions is that many private
health insurance programs offer coverage for abortion.
The following are two form letters regarding this. Please send
them around to friends as well as other BBSs
dennis
dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------
To private insurers:
RE: Abortion and my health insurance coverage
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I recently have become aware that my health insurance includes
coverage for abortion. I strongly oppose abortion for reasons of
conscience. It disturbs me deeply to know that my premiums may
be being used to pay for that which I sincerely believe is
murder. I would like to request that I be exempted from abortion
coverage with my health premiums reduced accordingly.
Sincerely,
My policy number is:
----------------------------------------------------------------
To your state and national representatives:
RE: Abortion and health coverage
Dear
It has recently come to my attention as a result of the current
abortion debate that my health insurance coverage provided by my
employer may include coverage paying for abortions.
I strongly oppose abortion for reasons of conscience and am
disturbed greatly that my coverage may be being used in this
manner. However, I depend on my employers' provided health
coverage, and fear that if I speak up about it, that I may lose
not only my coverage but even my job.
I would like to ask you to put into law the provision that health
insurance providers make abortion coverage non-compulsory in
their health insurance program, so that it can be declined, with
an appropriate reduction in premium.
In order that there be no difference in the dollar ammount in the
health benefit packages between those who would choose to have
abortion coverage and those who would not, I further ask that you
include a provision in which the reduction in premium resulting
from the declining of "abortion coverage" be paid-out to the
employee, rather than pocketed by the employer.
This second provision should serve to dissuade employers from
pressuring employees into taking one or the other stand with
regard to abortion services. Thank you very much. Your fellow
citizen.
Sincerely,
----------------------------------------------------------------
| 19talk.religion.misc |
Re: Rawlins debunks creationism
In article <C5snCL.J8o@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, adpeters@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Andy Peters) writes:
>Evolution, as I have said before, is theory _and_ fact. It is exactly
>the same amount of each as the existence of atoms and the existence of
>gravity. If you accept the existence of atoms and gravity as fact,
>then you should also accept the existence of evolution as fact.
>
>--
>--Andy
I don't accept atoms or gravity as fact either. They are extremely useful
mathematical models to describe physical observations we can make.
Other posters have aptly explained the atomic model. Gravity, too, is
very much a theory; no gravity waves have even been detected, but we
have a very useful model that describes much of the behavior on
objects by this thing we _call_ gravity. Gravity, however, is _not_
a fact. It is a theoretical model used to talk about how objects
behave in our physical environment. Newton thought gravity was a
simple vector force; Einstein a wave. Both are very useful models that
have no religious overtones or requirements of faith, unless of course you
want to demand that it is a factual physical entity described exactly
the way the theory now formulated talks about it. That takes a great
leap of faith, which, of course, is what religion takes. Evolution
is no different.
--
jim halat halat@bear.com
bear-stearns --whatever doesn't kill you will only serve to annoy you--
nyc i speak only for myself
| 19talk.religion.misc |
Re: nuclear waste
In article <1pp6reINNonl@phantom.gatech.edu>, matthew@phantom.gatech.edu (Matthew DeLuca) writes:
>
> Greedy little oil companies? Don't blame them; oil companies just supply the
> demand created by you, me, and just about everyone else on the planet. If we
> run out, its all our faults.
>
Ok, so how about the creation of oil producing bacteria? I figure
that if you can make them to eat it up then you can make them to shit it.
Any comments?
Will...
| 14sci.space |
Tek 7000 CROs for sale
I have numerous 7000 series scopes which are surplus to requirements.
These devices range from fully functional to having a fault which
remained unrepaired since they weren't needed any longer.
My query is: is there anybody in Australia interested in buying them?
I think the shipping costs would make it impractical to send them O/S.
(Certainly the mainframes, but if you're willing to pay shipping, I'll
consider offers for individual plug-ins).
For those who are in the know (anywhere in the world), what are these
bits worth second hand in your area?
I have:
11 7603 Mainframes
4 7A15 Vertical Amp
18 7A15A Vertical Amp
1 7A16 Vertical Amp
10 7A22 Differential Amp (10uV / Div, 1 MHz, 100,000:1 CMRR)
6 7B50 Timebase
8 7B50A Timebase
1 7B51 Timebase
in addition, I have the following, which have been smoke damaged in a fire
and, although washed, are probably a little more prone to failure than
the others:
2 7603 Mainframes
5 7403N Mainframes
5 7A15 Vertical Amp
2 7A15A Vertical Amp
5 7B50 Timebase
Overall, I suspect that the 7A22's are worth as much as all the rest
put together. All bar one of these are operational - that one failed
and has never been repaired because it was no longer needed.
The 7A22 has an on-board voltage offset as well as switchable high-
and low- pass filters. There is _nothing_ on the market, to my
knowledge, that comes close to the specs of this plug-in.
All of the above have service manuals.
| 6misc.forsale |
LaserWriter Pro 600 memory upgrade (4-->8)
I've got the official word on the LaserWriter Pro 600 memory
upgrade.
I just got off of the phone with the quite friendly Donna Rossi
at Apple Customer Assistance. She tells me that those who
purchased the LaserWriter Pro 600 in a 4 megabyte (300dpi, no
greyscale) configuration should contact their original dealers
who are supposed provide the 4-meg memory upgrade. For those
who don't know, the extra 4-meg will allow printing at 600dpi
or greyscale (at 300dpi).
If the dealers have questions, they should be directed to their
hardware support numbers and/or Apple Customer Assistance
1-800-776-2333, 408-996-1010 (corporate number).
Regards,
Glenn
P.S. - personally, I'm annoyed at our school bookstore. They
really have an obligation to provide this information to all
of the customers who purchased the 600 in the original
configuration (they have the records...that's why they ask for
things like a phone number). When I get my upgrade completed,
I'm going to write Apple and complain.
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
Re: *** The list of Biblical contradictions
Someone posted a list of x number of alleged Bible contradictions. As Joslin
said, most people do value quantity over quality. Dave Butler posted some good
quality alleged contradictions that are taking a long time to properly exegete.
If you want a good list (quantity) - _When Critics Ask, A Popular Handbook On
Bible Difficulties_ by Dr. Norman Geisler deals with over 800 alleged contradictions.
Frank
--
"If one wished to contend with Him, he could not answer Him one time out
of a thousand." JOB 9:3
| 19talk.religion.misc |
Re: Helium non-renewable?? (was: Too many MRIs?)
In article <lsj1gdINNkor@saltillo.cs.utexas.edu> turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin) writes:
>-*----
>How does the helium get consumed? I would have thought that failure
>to contain it perfectly would result in its evaporation .. back into
>the atmosphere. Sounds like a cycle to me. Obviously, it takes
>energy to run the cycle, but I seriously doubt that helium consumption
>is a resource issue.
>
It's not a cycle. Free helium will escape from the atmosphere due to
its high velocity. It won't be practical to recover it. It has
to be mined.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 13sci.med |
Re: Damn Furriners Be Taken Over
kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu writes:
Kaldis, you are a worm.
> Rank balderdash! America's reputation abroad has become tarnished
> because of feckless and pusillanimous cowards who apparently do not
> have the requisite gonads to stand up for American honor and dignity.
Translation- It's them DAMN liberals again!
> The American Way may not be the only way, and you may not consider it
> to be necessarily the best way, but, by God, it's _OUR_ way and we're
> going to stick with it! If you can't go along with the program, then
> perhaps you should consider moving elsewhere.
Who gave you the authority to create and enforce this rather
hazy thing called "the American Way"? This is a democracy, and
we don't need to stick to it or stick up for it unless we so
choose. Remember that, Ted, from Civics class in Greeley, CO?
> That is exactly the _PROBLEM_ with Canadians! They don't stand for
> anything with certitude.
Nice generalization.
> You pipsqueak! You mouse! If you are sorry to intrude then why do
> it? Don't you have the courage of your convictions? Hell, do you
> even have any convictions to start with? What kind of example of
> manly dignity is this? Sheesh!
Coming from such a crass example of "manly dignity," he must
feel _really_ hurt.
Jon, jac2y@virginia.edu
| 18talk.politics.misc |
Re: Ghostscript for win fonts????
servis@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian K Servis) writes:
That's me....
>I just downloaded the Windows Ghostscript package(gswin252.zip,gs252ini.zip)
>from ftp. When I load a PS file it says it cant find font and substitutes a
>font called Ugly. It is substituting for basic fonts such as Helv, and Cour.
>I would imagine that these fonts are included in its font library. Is there
>something I am doing wrong or am missing? These Ugly fonts are not very clear
>and well defined, as in sharpness, etc, basically they are ugly! Any advice
>is welcome.
Ok, I realize I have to get the font files from some ftp site. I found them
at cica but I now have another question.....
Are the 24*.zip fonts compatible with gswin252??
>Please email
Brian Servis
===========================================================================
|| servis@author.ecn.purdue.edu || "It Happened This Way" ||
===================================|| actual quotes from insurance claims||
|| What I say may not be what I || ||
|| think. What I say may not be || "The pedestrian had no idea which ||
|| what Purdue thinks. || way to go, so I ran him over." ||
===========================================================================
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
Re: Keith IS a relativist!
9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au (The Desert Brat) writes:
>Keith, if you start wafffling on about how it is different for a human
>to maul someone thrown into it's cage (so to speak), you'd better start
>posting tome decent evidence or retract your 'I think there is an absolute
>morality' blurb a few weeks ago.
Did I claim that there was an absolute morality, or just an objective one?
keith
| 0alt.atheism |
baseball in Spanish
Dateline Tue, 20/Apr93 03:38.
In , Antonio Pera of icop@csa.bu.edu wrote to All at 1:133/411,
AP> Recently, I heard the Red Sox on WROL a
AP> Spanish-speaking radio station. I thought it was so
AP> unreal. The Red Sox in Spanish? Anyway, I want to find
AP> out how widespread this is? Being a NY native, I know
AP> the scMets are on in Spanish but not the Yankmes. I
AP> wuold think that LA,SD,Texas and Fla are on in Spanish.
AP> Are there any Spanish-speaking networks or is this a
AP> local
For the last couple of years, the Braves have been fostering a program to reach to the Latin American audience. This has included licensing Spanish fan magazines, encouraging Spanish co-broadcasts, and marketing programs directed at the Latin American community. One of the biggest heros to the Latin American audience has been Francisco Cabrerra (a fact of which he was slightly embarrassed!).
One funny story is that during Spring Training, the Braves played a game in Mexico. This game was broadcast back to Atlanta in Spanish. It took the broadcasters a few innings to get a rythm going because they had to keep changing their location. Seems it took a while to find a place where they could get a clear signal on their cellular phones through which they were calling the game!
David Deitch, (GIS) Atlanta
--
__
FidoNet<==>UUCP / \ UUCP: wittsend!gisatl!deitch
Gateway & FAQ / oo \ Internet: deitch@gisatl.FIDONET.ORG
(_| /_)
David Deitch, _`@/_ \ _ Galaxy Information System
Administrator | | \ \\ (GIS) Atlanta
(404)252-1699 | (*) | \_ ))
______ |__U__| / \// User: David Deitch
/ FIDO \ _//|| _\ / Via FidoNet Node: 1:133/411.0
(________) (_/(_|(____/ (jm)
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
Re: What do Nuclear Site's Cooling Towers do?
Others said:
# > Actually, fossil fuel plants run hotter than the usual
# >boiling-water reactor nuclear plants. (There's a gripe in the industry
# >that nuclear power uses 1900 vintage steam technology). So it's
# >more important in nuclear plants to get the cold end of the system
# >as cold as possible. Hence big cooling towers.
When the utility gave up on that Cinnci, OH plant (Zimmer?) and
announced they were going to convert it to a coal-fired scheme, the
turbines were already in place, and they were the low-temp type. So the
plan was: Install a SECOND set of high temp turbines, and feed the
low-temp ones with the output of the new ones.
Never saw anything more on this. Did they ever really build it?
--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close............(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
| 12sci.electronics |
Leading Edge Computer-Buy?
I saw the following computer in a store and wanted to know if this is a good
computer or does someone see something wrong with it. I also would like to
switch the motherboard later when this computer becomes too slow. Does anyone
know if this is possible with a Leading Edge Computer, or will it be difficult
to find a motherboard that will fit in this computer. Any help will be
greatly appreciated.
Leading Edge- Model PC4170E
* Intel 486SX/25 Mhz CPU
* Supports Intel OverDrive clock-Doubling Processors(What is this?)
* Upgradable to 486DX2/66
* 4 MB RAM upgradable to 32 MB
* 8 KB internal cache
* 1.2 MB 5 1/4" & 1.44 MB 3.5" Disk Drives
* 213 MB Hard Drive
* 1024 x 768 VGA Video Resolution
* 1 MB Video RAM 256 Colors
* 6 Available 16-bit ISA expansion Slots
* One local bus socket (16-bit ISA Compatible)
* 4 5.25" drive bays, 3 external
* One 25-pin Centronics type parallel port
* 2 RS-232C Serial Ports (9 & 25 pin)
* One 15-pin analog video connector
* One PS/2 Compatible mouse port
* 200 Watt power supply
* 101 key keyboard and mouse included
* Software includes Windows 3.1, Dos 5.0, Microsoft Works for Windows
The store wants $1200 (without monitor) for this. Is it a good price?
Thanks!
--
***************************************************
* *
* Nicole Bell at Temple University Philly, PA *
* *
* E-Mail Address: u083s121@astro.ocis.temple.edu *
* Prodigy: JPKN01A *
* *
* "If you're not part of the solution - *
* you're part of the precipitate " *
* Steven Wright *
***************************************************
| 3comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware |
Re: prayers and advice requested on family problem
Julie, it is a really trying situation that you have described. My
brother was living with someone like that and things were almost as bad
(although he left after a considerably shorter amount of time due to
other problems with the relationship). Anyway, the best thing to do
would be to get everyone in the same room together (optimally in a room
with nothing breakable), lock the door behind you, throw the key out
underneath the door (just as far as the longest hand can reach. You
would like to get out after the conclusion, I would imagine), and hash
things out. More than likely, there will be screaming, crying, and
possibly hitting (unless of course someone decided to bring some rope to
tie people down). Some of the best strategies in keeping things calmer
would include:
have each individual own their own statements (ie, I feel that this
relationship is hurting everyone involved because.... or I really don't
understand where you're coming from.)
reinforce statements by paraphrasing, etc. (ie, So you think that we
did this because of...? Well, let me just say that the reason for this
was ....)
don't accuse each other (It was your fault that ... happened!)
find a common ground about SOMETHING (Lampshades really are
decorational and functional at the same time.)
Guaranteed, in a situation like this, there is going to be some
gunnysacking (re-hashing topics which were assumed resolved, but were
truly not and someone feels someone else is to blame). However, this
should be kept to a minimum and simply ask for forgiveness or apologize
about each situation WITHOUT holding a smoldering grudge.
The relationship really can work. It's just a matter of keeping things
smooth and even. It's sort of like making a peace treaty between
warring factions: you can't give one side everything; there must be a
compromise. Breaks can be taken, but communication between everyone
involved must continue if the relationships here are to survive.
Joe Fisher
| 15soc.religion.christian |
Re: Space spinn offs
In article <1rruis$9do@bigboote.WPI.EDU> wfbrown@wpi.WPI.EDU (William F Brown) writes:
>From: wfbrown@wpi.WPI.EDU (William F Brown)
>Subject: Re: Space spinn offs
>Date: 30 Apr 1993 19:27:24 GMT
>I just wanted to point out, that Teflon wasn't from the space program.
>It was from the WWII nuclear weapons development program. Pipes in the
>system for fractioning and enriching uranium had to be lined with it.
>
>Uranium Hexafloride was the chemical they turned the pitchblend into for
>enrichment. It is massively corrosive. Even to Stainless steels. Hence
>the need for a very inert substaance to line the pipes with. Teflon has
>all its molecular sockets bound up already, so it is very unreactive.
>
>My 2 sense worth.
>
>Bill
>
The artifical pacemaker was invented in 1958 by Wilson Greatbatch an
American biomedical engineer. The bill authorizing NASA was signed
in October of 1958 so it is clear that NASA had nothing to do with
the invention of the pacemaker.
| 14sci.space |
DOS6 - doublespace + stacker 3.0, is it okay?
Just as the title suggest, is it okay to do that?
I havne't got DOS6 yet, but I heart DoubleSpace is less tight than stacker 3.0.
What are disadvantage/advantages by doing that?
Any comments will be appreciated.
===Martin
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
Re: Argic
In article <dj80734@pro-angmar.alfalfa.com> cosmo@pro-angmar.alfalfa.com (Frank Benson) writes:
>You definetly are in need of a shrink, loser!
Hey cheesedicks, stop sending messages to a guy who's not going to
read them. And who cares anyway?
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
Re: few video questions
In article <7480224@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers) writes:
>situation sometimes called "block" sync). You can generate such a combined
>(or "composite") sync in two simple ways - OR the H. and V. syncs together,
>which gives you the non-serrated "block" sync, or EXOR them, which makes
>serrations. (Try it!) Actually, the EXOR doesn't really do kosher serrated
>sync, since it puts the rising (and falling, for that matter) edge of the H.
>sync pulse off by a pulse width. But that usually makes no difference.
Sometimes. It depends on your monitor and your timing. If you don't
have enough vertical front porch and you use XOR composite sync you can
get even/odd tearing at the top of the screen, which is very sensitive
to the HHOLD control. It looks like what you would expect if you
scanned the even fields (say) onto a sheet of mylar and had pinched the
upper left corner with your fingers and started to tear it off the tube.
With proper composite sync (equalizing pulses) the interlace is rock
solid.
--
+----------------+
! II CCCCCC ! Jim Cathey
! II SSSSCC ! ISC-Bunker Ramo
! II CC ! TAF-C8; Spokane, WA 99220
! IISSSS CC ! UUCP: uunet!isc-br!jimc (jimc@isc-br.isc-br.com)
! II CCCCCC ! (509) 927-5757
+----------------+
One Design to rule them all; one Design to find them.
One Design to bring them all and in the darkness bind
them. In the land of Mediocrity where the PC's lie.
| 12sci.electronics |
Re: Fighting the Clipper Initiative
In article <1r0nov$p3e@access.digex.net> steve-b@access.digex.com (Steve
Brinich) writes:
>
> 1. American manufacturers peddling Cripple Chips with a secret untested
> algorithm whose keys are held by people with a history of untrustworthy
> behavoir, or
>
er, excuse me but since the escrow agencies aren't yet chosen, how can you
say they have a "history of untrustworthy behavoir[sic]"?
I'm sure each of us can think of agencies without such a history. Price
Waterhouse has kept the secret of the Academy Awards for many years, even in
the face of an aggressive press. The Federal Reserve Open Market Committee
has successfully kept decisions from leaking for the statutory period until
publication. Even the Department of Agriculture has successfully kept crop
forecasts from leaking prematurely.
Frankly, I'd trust the above (not the D of A, of course since they might be
subject to political pressure) far sooner than the ACLU, EFF, or CPSR which,
though not exactly government apologists, have no particular track record
for internal security that I know of.
David
--
David Sternlight Great care has been taken to ensure the accuracy of
our information, errors and omissions excepted.
| 11sci.crypt |
Canada 5-0 after preliminary round at World Champioships
Team Canada defeated Russia 3-1 to finish the priliminary
round unbeaten at 5-0. Scoring for the Canadians were Kevin Dineen of
the Flyers, Eric Lindros also of the Flyers and Paul Cariya of the
Maine Black Bears. Cariya has put on quite a show at the Worlds. He is
sure to be drafted in the top 3 this summer at the NHL entry draft.
Canada defeated Italy 11-2 and Austria 11-0 before meeting the
Russians on Sunday. The Canadians now face Finland in the Quarter -
finals on Tuesday.
Kevin White
white@cc.hollandc.pe.ca
Holland College
Ch'town PEI Canada
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
Re: When are two people married in God's eyes?y
In article <Apr.24.01.08.03.1993.4202@geneva.rutgers.edu>, marka@hcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com (Mark Ashley) writes:
> Those with Bibles on hand can give the exact chapter & verse...
> At the time Jesus told Peter that he was the "rock", He said
> whatever you hold true on earth is held true in heaven, and
> whatever you don't hold true won't be true in heaven.
>
> Therefore, with respect to marriage, the ceremony has to be
> done by an RC priest. No big parties required. Just the priest,
> the couple and witnesses. "Divorce" is not allowed. But anullments
> are granted upon approval by either the bishop or the Pope
> (not sure if the Pope delegates this function).
>
Maybe I'm a little tired but I can't seem to follow the logic here. If
whatever is held true on earth is held true in heaven how is it that a priest
(RC only apparently) is required.
In fact if I read the next verse correctly (Matthew 18:19) I understand that
for a marriage to take place only two are required to agree on earth touching
one thing and it shall be done.
Todd
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mark Ashley |DISCLAIMER: My opinions. Not Harris'
> marka@gcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com |
> The Lost Los Angelino |
[Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any completely precise
statements about what is needed. (As usual, the current edition of
the Catholic Encyclopedia is frustratingly vague.) I do know that the
priest is viewed as a witness, and thus in some sense would not be
required. However part of the purpose of formal marriage is to avoid
any ambiguity about who has and has not taken on the commitment. The
community provides support to marriage, and in cases of problems are
involved in helping to make sure that the people carry out as much of
their commitment as possible. Thus marriage must be a public
commitment. The presence of a priest is required for a regular
marriage. Where I'm not clear is exactly where the boundaries are in
exceptional cases ("valid but irregular"). Ne Temere (1907) says that
no marriage involving a Catholic is valid without a priest (according
to the Oxford Dictionary of the Church), and they imply that the new
canon law retains this, but I'd rather see a more recent and
authoritative source. Note that while a Catholic priest is required
for Catholics, the Catholic church does recognize marriage between
baptized non-Catholics as valid without a priest. --clh]
| 15soc.religion.christian |
Apple 13" giong brighter
My Apple 13" RGB monitor has over the past few months gone brighter and
brighter and the colors are not as rich as before. Has anyone out there
encountered a similar problem? Dows anyone happen to know what this problem
may be due to?
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
Re: Shaft-drives and Wheelies
In article 0180@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA, C70A000 <C70A@UNB.CA> () writes:
>In article <3880218@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> gharriso@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Graeme Harrison) writes:
>>/ hpcc01:rec.motorcycles / xlyx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu / 2:48 pm Apr 19, 1993 /
>>Is it possible to do a "wheelie" on a motorcycle with shaft-drive?
>>
>>Mike Terry
>>'82 Virago
>>----------
>>I've seen 'em, but the real question is, can one do a wheelie on a Lead Wing?
>>If so, how high would the front wheel be off the ground?
>
> Wheelies on Lead Wings are possible, but they ain't easy, or so my
>(hhmmm, what is the relation?) great uncle several times removed tells
>me. As for how high, how high do you want 'em? Modulation isn't
>exactly the easiest thing in the world, or so says a guy 57 years old...
Well, apparently once you get past about 6 inches, all the luggage shifts back in the panniers, the passenger slides back, and the dog ends up hanging onto the top rack,
and they go all the way over until it's flat on it's ass, with the front wheel
straight up in the sky. Impressive, but hard on the tail lights. :)
Doug Rinckes drinckes@tssc.wlg.nec.co.jp New Zealand TSSC Ltd
1976 BMW R100S 1960 BMW R60 1940 Indian 741A
| 8rec.motorcycles |
Re: Good Reasons to Wave at each other
In article <1993Apr21.134121.1911@linus.mitre.org> cookson@mbunix.mitre.org (Cookson) writes:
I waved to a guy on a riding mower this morning. Does that count?
BTW, I live in the country... EVERYONE waves out here!
----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----
Stolen Taglines...
* God is real, unless declared integer. *
* I came, I saw, I deleted all your files. *
* Black holes are where God is dividing by zero. *
* The world will end in 5 minutes. Please log out. *
* Earth is 98% full.... please delete anyone you can. *
| 8rec.motorcycles |
Re: Expanded NL Strike Zone? (Was Re: A surfeit of offense?)
jrogoff@scott.skidmore.edu (jay rogoff) writes:
>It was my impression watching the Mets & Rockies that umpires were
>calling strikes above the belt, too, but not as far up as the letters.
>It would be nice if this were the case.
The umps saw the weekend boxscores, too. They knew the pitchers needed
some help or they would be watching the sunrise. :)
Mike Timlin
timlin@spot.colorado.edu
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
Re: Supply Side Economic Policy (was Re: David Stockman )
In article <Ufk_Gqu00WBKE7cX5V@andrew.cmu.edu> Ashish Arora <ashish+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.sci.econ: 5-Apr-93 Re: Supply Side Economic Po..
>by Not a Boomer@desire.wrig
>[...]
>
>> The deficits declined from 84-9, reaching a low of 2.9% of GNP before
>> the tax and spending hike of 1990 reversed the trend.
>>
>> Brett
>Is this true ? Some more details would be appreciated.
Yes, sadly, this is true. The primary reason, and the essence of the
details that you are seeking, is that the Grahm-Rudman budget controls
were working. In fact, they were working so well that unless the feds
did something, they were going to have to start cutting pork. So Bush
and the Democrats got together in a Budget Summit and replaced
Grahm-Rudman with the now historic Grand Compromise in which Bush
"consented" to raise taxes in exchange for certain caps on spending
increases.
As it turned out, the taxes killed the Reagan expansion and the caps
on spending increases were dispelled by Clinton in his first act as
President (so that he could create his own new plan with more tax
increases).
The result is that Clinton now HOPES to reduce the deficit to a level
ABOVE where it was when Reagan left office.
Chew on that awhile.
| 18talk.politics.misc |
Re: Geico
I'm glad this forum came up. I've been pricing insurance lately and had considered GEICO. But no more!! Any company with practices like theirs can
E.S.A.D.!! I'll stay with Liberty mutual.
Steve Nicholas
Wells Computer Center - Georgia State University
oprsfnx@gsusgi1.gsu.edu
" A RISK IS NOT A RISK UNTIL IT IS TAKEN."
| 7rec.autos |
24-bit Static color: will clients like it?
I'm writing an X server for some video-generation equipment. The
hardware is "truecolor" in YUV space; in X terms it has a 24-bit
static color visual. I would really like to have the server just
present this static visual, but I'm not sure if this will be
acceptable to "most" X clients. The three problems I see are:
1) The colormap, though huge, is static.
2) All pixels would be 3 bytes wide.
3) Because the hardware actually lives in YUV space, the
translation RGB->YUV will introduce some rounding error.
Being more of a server guy than a client guy, I ask: will these
limitations thwart many X clients? Or will most of the X stuff
floating around blithely accept what they're given? I could write
the server to also present a pseudocolor visual of, e.g., 8 bits,
but I'd rather avoid this if not necessary.
I know there are no absolutes, but I'd appreciate hearing people's
opinions and suggestions. Thanks!
--
Frederick G. M. Roeber | CERN -- European Center for Nuclear Research
e-mail: roeber@cern.ch or roeber@caltech.edu | work: +41 22 767 31 80
r-mail: CERN/PPE, 1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland | home: +33 50 20 82 99
| 5comp.windows.x |
Re: So, do any police ossifers read this stuff?
In article <C5u4DL.A6v@athena.cs.uga.edu> ahatcher@athena.cs.uga.edu \
(Allan Hatcher) writes:
%
% Well, here goes. After lurking for a LONG time, I'll announce myself.
% Yes, I'm the enemy.
%
Sorry Allan, but unless you happen to be the guy who watches T.V.
while he's driving a white Toyota on route 129 between Atsugi and
Hiratsuka, you're not even -close- to being "the enemy"!!
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| John Little - gaijin@Japan.Sun.COM - Sun Microsystems. Atsugi, Japan |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 8rec.motorcycles |
Re: I'm getting a car, I need opinions.
Good luck.
| 7rec.autos |
Re: Need to find out number to a phone line
Well here in Australia you dial
11544
to get the number read back to you
if you live in the country include the area code of the nearest capital city
eg for wa 09 11544
Yours
Mark
--
#***********************************************************************#
# Mark Tearle | #
# |
# email: mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au |
| 12sci.electronics |
XV for MS-DOS !!!
Hi !!! This is the response for Wayne Michael...and certainly for other-one :-)
I'm sorry for...
1) The late of the answer but I couldn't find xv221 for msdos 'cause
I forgot the address...but I've retrieve it..
2) Posting this answer here in comp.graphics 'cause I can't use e-mail,
not yet....
2) My bad english 'cause I'm a Swiss and my language is french....
After a long time I retrieve the address where you can find XV for Dos...
Site : omnigate.clarkson.edu
Aliases : grape.ecs.clarkson.edu
Number : 128.153.4.2
/pub/msdos/djgpp/pub
it's xv221.zip (?) I think...
Certainly you read the other answer from Kevin Martin... He write about DV/X
(?).
What is it ?????? Could Someone answer ????
Thanx in advance....
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
* *
* Pascal PERRET | perret@eicn.etna.ch *
* Ecole d'ingénieur ETS | (Not Available at this time)*
* 2400 Le LOCLE | *
* Suisse *
* !!!! Enjoy COMPUTER !!!! *
* *
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| 1comp.graphics |
Re: Accented Characters..... How
I've been able to configure xterm so that I can type in accented characters.
I'm using X11R5, with iso8859 fonts, my shell is tcsh with the following
definitions :
setenv LC_CTYPE iso_8859_1
stty pass8
Then, I add the following in my .Xdefaults file:
XTerm*eightBitInput: True
XTerm*eightBitOutput: True
XTerm*VT100.Translations: #override \
Meta<Key>': keymap(aigu) \n\
Meta<Key>`: keymap(grave) \n\
Meta<Key>^: keymap(circ) \n\
Meta<Key>\\,: keymap(ced)
XTerm*VT100.aiguKeymap.translations: \
~Shift <Key>e: string(0xe9) keymap(None)\n\
<Key>E: string(0xc9) keymap(None) \n\
~Shift <Key>c: string(0xe7) \n\
<Key> C: string(0xc7)
XTerm*VT100.graveKeymap.translations: \
~Shift <Key>e: string(0xe8) keymap(None)\n\
<Key>E: string(0xc8) keymap(None)\n\
~Shift <Key>u: string(0xf9) keymap(None)\n\
<Key>U: string(0xd9) keymap(None)\n\
~Shift <Key>a: string(0xe0) keymap(None)\n\
<Key>A: string(0xc0) keymap(None)
XTerm*VT100.circKeymap.translations: \
~Shift <Key>e: string(0xea) keymap(None)\n\
<Key>E: string(0xca) keymap(None)\n\
~Shift <Key>u: string(0xfb) keymap(None)\n\
<Key>U: string(0xdb) keymap(None)\n\
~Shift <Key>i: string(0xee) keymap(None)\n\
<Key>I: string(0xce) keymap(None)\n\
~Shift <Key>o: string(0xf4) keymap(None)\n\
<Key>O: string(0xd4) keymap(None)
XTerm*VT100.cedKeymap.translations: \
~Shift <Key>c: string(0xe7) keymap(None)\n\
<Key> C: string(0xc7) keymap(None)
This makes the Meta-{',`,^} keys behave as dead keys.
Of course, this only works for xterm. For emacs, my solution is to install the
Lucid version of GnuEmacs 19, and to load the x-compose library.
Hope this helps,
Eric
--
Eric Dujardin - Eric.Dujardin@inria.fr
INRIA Rocquencourt, projet RODIN "Les bons gongs font
BP 105, 78153 Le Chesnay Cedex les bonzes amis"
Tel : (33 1) 39 63 56 19 (Gotlib)
| 5comp.windows.x |
Re: YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL!!!
In article <C5LH4p.27K@portal.hq.videocart.com>, dfuller@portal.hq.videocart.com (Dave Fuller) writes:
> JSN104@psuvm.psu.edu () writes:
> : YOU BLASHEPHEMERS!!! YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL FOR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD!!!! BE
> : PREPARED FOR YOUR ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!
>
> What do you mean "be prepared" ?? Surrounded by thumpers like yourself
> has proven to be hellish enough . . . and I'm not even dead yet !!
Well here's how I prepared. I got one of those big beach
umbrellas, some of those gel-pack ice things, a big Coleman cooler
which I've loaded up with Miller Draft (so I like Miller Draft,
so sue me), a new pair of New Balance sneakers, a Sony
Watchman, and a couple of cartons of BonTon Cheddar Cheese
Popcorn.
I haven't decided what to wear yet. What does one wear to an
eternal damnation?
Dean Kaflowitz
| 0alt.atheism |
WANTED - TRANSFORMERS (the Toys)
Hey,
collection. I am interested in buying any in good condition. I am
particularly interested in any of the older, exotic models (eg five ]
transformers into one etc... I am looking at paying around $20-$40 depending
upon the model, size and original cost etc. I will also pay airmail postage
and packing. I am also happy to buy any old sci-fi related toys eg robots,
rocketships, micronauts etc... There is only one catch. I live in New
Zealand so you have to be willing to post the items there. I hop that
someone can help me out.
Cheers
Darren
| 6misc.forsale |
Computer repairs
Does anyone out there know where some one can become educated in the art of
repairing Macintosh computers? Also, how does one gain the prestige of being
refered to as a Authorized Apple Service person? Has anyone out there actually
done any of this or maybe even know someone who did. I would appreciate any
and all comments on this subject.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Roy--------internet<br4416a@american.edu>---------PCS(poor college student)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is
In article <1qkjvc$4jv@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes:
|> In article <1qk1md$6gs@kyle.eitech.com> ekr@kyle.eitech.com (Eric Rescorla) writes:
|> #In article <1qjbn0$na4@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes:
|> #>In article <kmr4.1571.734847050@po.CWRU.edu> kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:
|> #># You have only pushed back the undefined meaning. You must now define
|> #>#what "objective values" are.
|> #>
|> #>Really? You don't know what objective value is? If I offered the people
|> #>of the U.S., collectively, $1 for all of the land in America, would that
|> #>sound like a good deal?
|> #Well, that would depend on how much we wanted the US and how much
|> #we wanted the $1, wouldn't it?
|>
|> Yes it would. Luckily these parameters are fixed by reality. If I can
|> predict with almost 100% accuracy that Americans prefer to own their portions of
|> the US than an infinitesmal portion of $1, in what sense are these values
|> not objective?
Not only are they not objective, but they don't even stay constant
over time. A young farmer and an old farmer on the verge of
retirement have quite different ideas about the relative values of
a piece of land and a dollar bill.
Similarly, a person viewing an anonymous piece of land, and a
person viewing a piece of land that his family has lived on for
generations.
These values are essentially subjective, and that's why we have
markets: to allow people to match their valuations of land and
dollar bills.
jon.
| 19talk.religion.misc |
Re: The Universe and Black Holes, was Re: 2000 years.....
In article <1r4cvpINNkv2@ctron-news.ctron.com>, king@ctron.com (John E. King) writes:
>
> kv07@IASTATE.EDU (Warren Vonroeschlaub) writes:
>
> > Let's say that we drop a marble into the black hole. It races, ever faster,
> >towards the even horizon. But, thanks to the curving of space caused by the
> >excessive gravity, as the object approaches the event horizon it has
> further to
> >travel. Integrating the curve gives a time to reach the event horizon
> of . . .
> >infinity. So the math says that nothing can enter a black hole.
Isn't that just a variation of the "Achilles & the turtle" paradox, which
states that achilles could never possibly overtake a turtle?
How should one deal with a man who is convinced that
he is acting according to God's will, and who there-
Jokke fore believes that he is doing you a favour by
stabbing you in the back?
-Voltaire
| 19talk.religion.misc |
Re: Creating a batch file from Windows NT
In <sasswb.737229720@k2> sasswb@unx.sas.com (Scott Bass) writes:
>I saw another post on this list (the subject was something like "Is vi
>available for Windows?") in which someone said that vi, make, awk, and
>***ksh*** was available with Microsoft TOOLKIT. What is that product? Is
>it a separate product or part of Windows? ksh would do what I need if I
>could count on it at all NT sites.
I imagine that was the MKS Toolkit, from Mortice Kern Systems.
Another third party add-in, and a good one too.
--
Nick Langmaid nick@brimbank.apana.org.au Melbourne, Australia +61(3)336-3228
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
Re: Why are there no turbocharged motorbikes in North America?
: In article <7APR93.20040687@skyfox> howp@skyfox writes:
: >I just got to thinking: why don't manufacturers still make bikes with
turbos?
: > etc ....
Because they add a lot of expense and complexity and make for a less reliable
and less controllable bike.
As an extreme example the CX500 Turbo cost as much as a Mike Hailwood Replica
Ducati.
--
David Edmondson davide@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
Queen Mary & Westfield College DoD#0777 Guzzi Le Mans 1000
"This means the end of the horse-drawn Zeppelin."
| 8rec.motorcycles |
Of Heroes and Cowards / The Depopulation of Karabakh Armenians
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------
I was suggested by the author of this email I am responding to, Alex
Chaihorsky, that whatever we write to each other will be considered public.
Thus, I share this email with all!
---------------------------------- -----------------------------------
In Email Message-Id: <9305112203.AA14579@netcom2.netcom.com> sasha@netcom.com
(Alexander A. Chaihorsky) wrote:
[A] David --
[A] We can go throwing flames at each other -
[A] nothing is easier. Why do not you just try to
[A] see the situation from a different prospective?
Not taking sides leaves one in a state of perpetual indecision because both
sides in this issue have their own logic at any given time. As an Armenian I
am partisan -- by definition. However, this does give me the license to lie,
cover-up, or revise events under question as we have read on UseNet in postings
by agents of the Turkish government. I understand both sides of the issue, but
this does not mean I will advocate both sides when it suits me. Such a
position would make me a hypocrite. I am also not being paid by agents of
Turkey nor Azerbaijan as are many proponents of the Azeri side. I refer to
agents such as Captioline International Group, Ltd., being paid in excess of
$30,000/month by Azerbaijan. I state my case unencumbered by such advocacy or
prostitution.
[A] You do not have to change your mind for that -
[A] just (as if you are playing chess) ask yourself -
[A] what if?
[A] What if your tone is so offensive that one type of
[A] people loose control and start to erratically insult
[A] you, and others emotionally detach themselves from
[A] you writings and are not engaging in the discussion
[A] with you?
My tone is not offensive. If people are offended by what I say than I just
may be too bad. This conflict, as is human conflict in general, is rather
bleak and is surrounded by the most barbaric actions of man. Given such
conditions, dispassion is rather difficult, and artificial at best. This does
not mean that discussion is out of the question. No conflict is ever resolved
without discussion.
[A] I'll try first. Recently I received a message from
[A] a Russian guy who frequently visited Baku that
[A] approximately after 1986 the old situation when
[A] there were no anti-Armenian press had changed and
[A] the press became very anti-Armenian and average
[A] Azeri became an Armenian-hater. This is devastation
[A] news for me because one of my cornerstones was the fact
[A] that I MYSELF SAW ARMENIANS IN BAKU AMONG OTHER ETHNIC
[A] GROUPS AND SAW, OR HEARD, OR READ NOTHING THAT WOULD
[A] SEEM LIKE HATRED. You might say that an outsider never
[A] sees, but by that time I was myself victimized as a member
[A] of a minority by Russians and knew what to look for and
[A] what innocent sign or remark might signify.
I am sure. The Soviet Union effectively froze in time all ethnic problems it
created or was brewing just after WWI. During the Soviet reign, officials
tended to shape the frozen conflicts in such a way so when thawed, they
would serve the purposes of the internal policies of the Soviet Union or
successor states.
[A] Again - one of my cornerstones show cracks. I will investigate.
[A] Another cornerstone of my thought is that Armenia started
[A] hostilities against Azeris in Armenia before anything happened
[A] in Sumgait (not at all I am trying to justify violence in Sumgait
[A] or anywhere else - I bow my head with grief and respect and
[A] did demand and will laways demand that criminals be severely
[A] punished according to the law of the land.
[A] I would like you to supply me with the information about that.
[A] Does or does not the hostilities began in Armenia? Was thousands
[A] od Azeris thrown out of their homes and forced to leave Armeina
[A] before Sumgait or not?
Sumgait took place in February of 1988. The Azeris of Armenia were expelled
in the late fall of 1988. It took the entire summer of 1988 for the
situation to get so bad for Azeris in Armenian that the Russians had to
evacuate them. I refer specifically to _Human Rights Violations in Armenia
and Azerbaijan_, A report of Pax Christi Netherlands 12 September 1991. Also,
one need only read the newspaper to verify this.
You do realize, perhaps unknowingly -- perhaps not -- you are mirroring
Turkish propaganda and lies regarding what took place when and where first!
[A] Second - in your last message you used a very terrifying
[A] phrase - "Artificial borders" when you were talking about
[A] Armenian. Do you believe that Armenia have righteous territorial
[A] claims? Do you believe that Armenia has rights to the lands that
[A] currently belong to other countries?
[A] Do you believe that this is stricktly Armenian priviledge or
[A] everybody should start reclaiming what once was theirs?
I had addressed this issue several time before -- perhaps I was not clear. The
current borders of Armenia were not set as a result of the consolidation of
a high Armenian culture. Today's Armenia is about 1/10 the land mass that
sustained Armenians for nearly three millennia. It was the natural Armenian
boundaries that sustained Armenians -- not the current boundaries. The current
borders of Armenia would never support a society nor sustain its growth. Does
this mean that Armenia should expand? It might, if Armenia is not allowed to
integrate into the region. If this past winter is any indication of the future
status of Armenia, then Armenia must do what it will to survive.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, and you can quote me on this, as I am sure you
and others will, the combined forces of both Armenia and Karabakh should have
taken Karabakh and the land in between in a matter of weeks in late 1991. This
would avoided all the pain and suffering both sides endured and would remove a
tool of Russian influence in the Caucasus. You may call me a war-monger -- so
be it. If Armenians don't defend their right to live on the land they live on,
those rights will be taken away. The Azeris should not have the right to
remove these Armenians, but given the first chance to, they will, as was
proven throughout all of Azerbaijan. If the Soviet Union didn't break apart,
today Karabakh would be emptied of Armenians. Operation Ring, started in early
1991 emptied the northern 1/3 of Karabakh of Armenians, but the operation was
suspended by the disillusionment of the Soviet Union. Lucky for the Armenians!
If the Azeris feel as though they can expel all the Armenians of Karabakh, the
Armenians will resist, if the Armenians can't live under Azeri oppression,
then they will fight for the right to live their lives free from such
oppression. If this means these Armenian demand independence, I support such a
move. If you can't understand this, as an Azeri, that is truly unfortunate.
Until this is understood by the Gray Wolves in Baku, more young Azeri men will
die in the pursuit of the expulsion and ethnic cleansing of Karabakh
Armenians.
[A] Third thing - you keep saying about 3000 years of Armenian presence
[A] in Karabakh. What exactly you mean by that? That there were Armenians
[A] 3000 years ago in Karabah? Only Armenians? Or among other nations?
[A] I saw (SAW) a Russian tax map of Karabah with all the landowners and
[A] occupant names on it (the map was surveyed by Russian Army in 1810.
[A] Would you believe that there were almost exclusivly Achmeds and Hu-
[A] sseins? I also saw Armenian names, but the absolute majority of the
[A] population was Muslim. If I am wrong - give me your sources, but
[A] please, let us keep the rule that we only pay attention to third
[A] party sources.
[A] There are Russian diplomatic documents about the mission of the
[A] Russian famous writer and diplomat Griboedov whose mission in Iran
[A] was protection of Armenians that were persecuted by Persians and
[A] RELOCATION these Armenians inside Russian Empire. According to
[A] the Russian tax documents that was the time when the population of
[A] Karabakh became predominantly (in some places) Armenian.
Karabakh, or Artsakh as it is known in Armenian (and Urartian) is the only
piece of Armenia that has a continuous Armenian occupation, from the
transformation of the Urartians to Armenians, nearly 3,000 years ago. You
refer to Russian and Muslim rulers over Karabakh, not the population! You
surely must know the rules of Muslim landownership over non-Muslims.
[A] You write in your letter that "Azeris were shelling Stepanakert which
[A] now is almost completely destroyed" David - is it fair to say that
[A] Stepanakert was destroyed by Azeris? There is that fine line between
[A] propaganda and personal view, however bizzarre that view is - YOU KNOW
[A] AS WELL AS ANYBODY WHO SAW TV IN THE TIMES OF THE EARTHQUAKE - that
[A] Stepanakert was almost completely devastated by the quake.
[A] But may be you believe that the damage from Azeri shelling is greater
[A] than the damage from the quake? OK, no problem, AS LONG AS YOU MENTION
[A] THE QUAKE.
As I wrote in a short response to you regarding this earlier. You may be
confusing Spitak with Stepanakert. There were no effects of the earthquake
in Karabakh.
[A] I want dialog. I am not interested in mud-throwing. And in dialog I want
[A] honest opinions (one might be wrong, but one MUST be honest). Honest
[A] opinions may be based on emotions but in this case one should indicate
[A] that. But mostly we are looking for information based opinions.
[A] I always ask myself - why I think that? Is it because I was told so
[A] bt so many people that it became a truth? Or I read a book? Who wrote
[A] it? What was his/her intentions/interests/whatever?
Fine. I stated my opinions and the reasons for them. If you put into action
what you just stated above, you would understand my outrage at the posting of
Farid who just posted items from some Islamic conference, etc., and just left
it at that. He has done his numerous times. At least I responded to that
posting, and was outraged that Farid simply copies other people`s text, posts
it -- yet does not display the courage be responsible for what he posts. One
can always stand behind the facade of claiming what I write is polemic,
however, as a result such irresponsibility I am free to make a claim of
cowardice.
[A] Please, give me sources, facts, titles of the books of third party
[A] writers, etc.
I believe I have, and can support what I claim. I don't make up history, nor
do I have to! I have done enough research regarding Turkish Genocide Apology
to revisionism from good scholarship, and I will never fall victim to
bottomless pit of making claims without a solid basis.
[A] And please, answer my questions in the beginning of the letter.
[A] And for you Armenian friends who do not like what I write -
[A] sorry, but these are my thoughts and it is very disturbing
[A] that you like people when they say what you like and dislike
[A] them when they say something that you do not like.
Alex, I stated my friends and associates where rather surprised as the tone of
your posting considering the fact that I had categorized you as an open-minded
Azeri. Perhaps I was fooled by you? Perhaps I should believe that you are like
"all Azeris when it comes to Armenians". I chose not to accept such a
statement. They were not surprised at what you said so much as it was coming
from you, somebody from which they expected otherwise. You see, you didn't add
anything to the issue, which was the expectation, only conforming old
suspicions.
[A] For me
[A] it is most inportant that a guy makes a honest effort to find
[A] the truth. If so, he/she might have whatever opinion he/she
[A] wants. I believe that telling people the truth, seeking it - is
[A] far more noble than just support your race because it is yours.
[A] That is a way of animals, primitive tribes and criminal societies.
[A] Civilized people seek truth.
[A] Cheers,
[A] Alex
If you think I am intellectually dishonest, please demonstrate it. As I stated
above, I am partisan on this issue, thus expect me to take a stand in the
interest of the Armenians, not against Armenians. This stance should not seem
strange to you. I am not here to generate excuses for Armenians wanting to
live on the land they live on, and wanting to live in peace. If Armenians must
die for what they believe in, and make ultimate sacrifice, you had better
listen to them. No amount of rhetoric -- not from Yerevan, Baku, the CSCE, nor
paid prostitutes in Washington -- will convince Karabakh Armenians otherwise!
--
David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org | "Armenia has not learned a lesson in
S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies | Anatolia and has forgotten the
P.O. Box 382761 | punishment inflicted on it." 4/14/93
Cambridge, MA 02238 | -- Late Turkish President Turgut Ozal
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
Re: Death Penalty / Gulf War (long)
Mark McCullough (mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu) wrote:
: >Prove it. I have a source that says that to date, the civilian death count
: >(er, excuse me, I mean "collateral damage") is about 200,000.
:
: I have _never_ seen any source that was claiming such a figure. Please
: post the source so its reliability can be judged.
This figure would not simply be deaths by bombing, but also death later
from disease (the sewer system of Baghdad was deliberately targeted) and
starvation. I believe (but when I get a copy of the latest research in
June or July) that this was the figure proposed in the Census Bureau
report on the matter. The report was suppressed and the CB attempted to
sack the author of the report, but failed due to procedural technicality.
The author is now on permanent leave.
Aaron Turner
| 0alt.atheism |
Re: How I got saved...
My first and most important point is that regardless of how your recovery
happened, I'm glad it did!
On 10-May-93 in Re: How I got saved...
user Karen Lauro@camelot.brad writes:
> I found it ore than coincidental that less than 2 weeks after
>I put my faith where my mouth was, one more in the long line of doctors
>and not even an orthopeodic specialist, diagnosed my problems with no
>difficulty, set me on the path to an effective cure, and I was walking
>and running again without the pain that had stopped me from that for
>4 years. The diagnosis was something he felt the other doctors must have
>"overlooked" because it was perfectly obvious from my test results.
NOW! The point that I'll try to make is that coincidences like this occur
with a very high frequency. How many of us have been thinking of someone
and had that person call? Much of the whole psychic phenomenon is easily
explicable by this - one forgets the misses. Consider your astrological
forcast in the newspaper. How many times have you said "That's me" vs
"That's not me"? You'll remember the hits, but the misses will be much more
frequent.
On 10-May-93 in Re: How I got saved...
user Karen Lauro@camelot.brad writes:
> Maybe this doesn't hit you as miraculous. But to me it really
>is. Imagine an active 17 year old being told she may not be able to
>walk mcuh longer...and is now a happy 18 year old who can dance and run
>knowing that the problem was there all along and was "revealed" just
>after she did what she knew was right. As the song says...
And what if, instead if being healed, your affliction got much worse and
you ended up paralyzed? Would you have attributed that to god as well?
Or would that have been the work of satan? If you believe that would have
been so, why ONLY good from god, and ONLY evil from satan? Couldn't the
agony have come from god? Think about what he did to poor Job!
David Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own. | Towards both a
Mechanical Engineering | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and
Carnegie Mellon University | <<<Use Golden Rule v2.0>>> | Jewish homeland!
====T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=========T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=====
Email: bluelobster+@cmu.edu Working towards my "Piled Higher and Deeper"
The gostak distims the doches!
| 15soc.religion.christian |
HELP...REFLUX ESOPHAGITIS
I am writing this to find out the following:
1.) Any information on surgery to prevent reflux esophagitis.
2.) The name(s) of a doctor(s) who specialize in such surgery.
3.) Information on reflux esophagitis which leads to cancer.
My boyfriend, age 34 and otherwise in good health, was diagnosed with
reflux esophagitis and a hiatal hernia about 2 years ago. At that time he
saw a gastroenterologist and has tried acid controllers (Mylanta,
Tagamet), as well as a restricted diet and raising the head of his bed.
These treatments were not effective and because the damage was
worsening, he opted for a surgical repair 3 months ago. He was told
there were two repair techniques that could fix the problem; a Nissen
wrap and a "Hill Repair". He opted for the "Hill Repair". He recovered
very well from the surgery itself but the pain he had originally is worse
and in addition he now has trouble swallowing (including saliva).
The doctor now wants to do an endoscopy and has also informed him
that a biopsy might be necessary if he has a pre-cancerous condition
which he called "Barrett's Syndrome". If he can't avoid having reflux will
he necessarily get cancer?
Basically, if anyone has any information on what he should do now, I'd
appreciate it.
Thanks,
Pat Lydon/ NetManage, Inc./ Pat@netmanage.com
| 13sci.med |
Dir Yassin
From _Myths and Facts_, by Leonard J. Davis, Near East Research Inc.,
1989:
[pp. 108-109]
"Unlike the PLO's almost exclusive focus on civilian targets, the
100 troups from the Irgun and Stern group that struck at Deir Yassin
on April 10, 1948, targeted the village for its military importance.
Deir Yassin was on the road to Jerusalem, which the Arabs had
blockaded, and it housed Iraqi troups and Palestinian irregulars.
Snipers based in Deir Yassin were a constant threat to Jewish citizens
in Jerusalem.
"Arab civilians were killed at Deir Yassin, but that attack does
not conform to the propaganda picture that the Arabs have tried to
paint. The number of Arabs killed was generally reported to be about
250. In 1983, however, Eric Silver of _The Guardian_ (Britain)
interviewed a survivor, Mophammed Sammour, who testified that 116 out
of a population of 800-1000 were killed. 'About three days after the
massacre,' Sammour explained, 'representatives of each of the five
clans in Deir Yassin met at the Moslem offices in Jerusalem and made a
list of the people who had not been found (alive). We went through the
names. Nothing has happend since 1948 to make me think this figure
was wrong.'
"Unlike the PLO's deliberate attacks on civilians, the killing of
civilians at Deir Yassin was not premeditated. The attackers left open
an escape corridor from the village and more than 200 residents left
unharmed. After the remaining Arabs feigned surrender and then fired
on the Jewish troops, some of the attackers killed Arab soldiers and
civilians indiscriminately. Independent observers told _The Guardian_
that among the bodies they found Arab men disguised as women."
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
Re: Is it good that Jesus died?
Jim Burhill writes:
>Would you consider the word of an eye-witness (Peter) to testify to the
>events surrounding Jesus' life?
>No. There are two problems here:
Brian Kendig writes:
>(1) Peter died two millenia ago. The original letters he wrote have
>long since decayed into dust. If he were alive today and I could
Do you question the existence of Alexander the Great, Tilgrath Pilisar III,
Nero, Caligula, Josephus, Cyrus the Great, Artexerxes? Their documents
have decayed to dust too. Brian, why another excuse?
>(2) Even if Peter did witness the miracles of Jesus two millenia ago,
>that doesn't mean that your deity is what the Bible says it is (God
>might just be Satan, trying to convince everyone that he's a nice
>guy), or even that your deity is still alive and active in the world
>today.
Peter wrote a bit of the Bible. What Peter says about God is what
the Bible says.
Consider the Bible a court recording. Over the period of thousands of
years, various people come up and testify of their experience with the
living God. Up comes Abraham the wealthy rancher. Up comes Moses,
once the high official of Egypt. Up comes Elijah, a priest. Up comes
David, a mere shepherd who became King. Up comes the pagan King
Nebuchanezzar. Up comes the pagan King of Persia, Cyrus. Up comes
Nehemiah, cupbearer to the King of Persia. Then Matthew, an IRS agent
takes the stand. Up comes Luke, an M.D. Then Paul a Jew who use
to kill Christians for fun. Up comes John, a 17 year old boy. Up
comes Peter, a fishermen. Up comes James, the brother of Jesus himself.
Up comes hundreds of others. You hear testimony from fishermen, IRS
agents, priests, Kings. The court hearing lasts thousands of years
with people coming up and testifying about the God who calls himself
"I am."
While you are listening to all this stuff, you realize that
King David could have never known John, Solomon could have never known
Matthew, Nehemiah could have never known Peter. You realize that all these
people are independent witnesses, and so, you rule out collaboration. Yet
all of the witnesses tell of the same God. Each testifier tells
of his own experiences with the living God. Each experience is
different, but each experience has enough cross-over to unmistakenly
reveal that each one of these people is talking about the very same God.
What Daniel did not know about God, the 3rd Highest Official of
Babylon, God revealed to John 600 years later--but with a different
perspective. No two testimonies are identical. Each testimony
dares to venture off what is already known. Yet each witness's
testimony, even though different from those prior, consistently
describes harmoniously fitting facets of the character of the same God.
Now. As we stare gazing at the computer, you got this seeming fanatic
on the other end of the net, saying, I know this God "I am". He has
revealed himself to me too. He also calls himself Jesus (John 8:58).
Please believe me. I am telling the truth. It is wonderful to know him.
Are you going to just pass off all this testimony as fictiousness?
Are you going to call three thousand years worth of testimony from
shepherds to IRS agents to royal officials to kings to computer
programmers, fiction? With a scoff of your keyboard, with near
complete ignorance of the testimonies, are you going to say that
that is all complete hooey? Would that not be the most audacious
display of arrogance? Do you actually think you know better than
King Solomon, King David, or even Abraham Lincolnr?
| 19talk.religion.misc |
Re: XV 3.00 has escaped!
In article <123645@netnews.upenn.edu>, bradley@grip.cis.upenn.edu (John
Bradley) writes:
|> From: bradley@grip.cis.upenn.edu (John Bradley)
|> Subject: XV 3.00 has escaped!
|> Date: 28 Apr 93 01:27:46 GMT
|>
|> No, not another false alarm, not a "It'll certainly be done by *next* week"
|> message... No, this is the real thing. I repeat, this is *not* a drill!
|>
|> Batten down the hatches, hide the women, and lock up the cows, XV 3.00 has
|> finally escaped. I was cleaning its cage this morning when it overpowered
|> me, broke down the office door, and fled the lab. It was last seen heading
|> in the general direction of export.lcs.mit.edu at nearly 30k per second...
|>
|> If found, it answers to the name of 'contrib/xv-3.00.tar.Z'.
|>
|> Have a blast. I'm off to the vacation capital of the U.S.: Waco, Texas.
|>
|> --jhb
| 5comp.windows.x |
Re: Koresh Doctrine -- 4 of 4
In article <C5yy8I.EBn@dscomsa.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>
>In article <1993Apr23.171256.5541@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, clavazzi@nyx.cs.du.edu(The_Doge) writes:
>
>|>
>|> Deleted: vast quantities of carefully-annoted spew from "David Koresh"
>|> I don't know about the rest of you, but I think Mr. Tice needs a hobby.
>
>He has one. He spent last summer telling everyone who doubted the word
>of the great Perot that they were bigotted perot-bashers, right up to the
>moment he chickened out on them. He then kept quiet for a bit and then
>came back when Perot re-entered.
>
This seems appropriate, somehow...>:-)>
>
>
[....]
>Then there is the rumour that Loresh in fact survived the fire in a secret
>hideyhole and rose again on the third day only to be spirited away by
>FBI agents and disposed of in order to prevent a cult following.
>
Hah! I have it on the very *best* authority (mine) that Koresh is
whooping it up in a time-share condo in Dallas with Elvis, JFK, and (of course)
J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, who also owns the place and everything else in Texas.
Look for "koresh" sightings in the Weekly World News and National
Enquirer in the coming months.
************************************************************
* The_Doge of South St. Louis *
* Dobbs-Approved Media Conspirator(tm) *
* "One Step Beyond" -- Sundays, 3 to 5 pm *
* 88.1 FM St. Louis Community Radio *
* "You'll pay to know what you *really* think!" *
* -- J.R. "Bob" Dobbs" *
************************************************************
| 19talk.religion.misc |
Re: Jack Morris
In article <1993Apr20.025331.17413@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>
>Not at all. I am talking about Morris winning with Toronto last year. You
>are about to launch into a fantasy about the "Red Jays" and how Toronto
>would have done with Viola on their team. Viola didn't play for Toronto
>last year. Morris did.
>
The problem with your nihilistic approach, Roger, is that it takes all the
sense out of the game. By your line of reasoning, if a guy hits into a
double play with one out and the bases loaded, there's no point in saying
that that was a bad thing to do (if his team won anyway) or speculating
on what might have happened if things had gone otherwise, so the double
play is merely an event that happened in the course of a game that was
eventually won or lost for unknown reasons. After all, any speculation
involves constructing a fantasy about what would have happened but didn't.
Roger, do you ever worry that the next pencil you drop will fall to the
ceiling instead? Or are you willing to consider empirical evidence?
Teams go to the post-season when they win more games than anybody else
in their division. If they don't make the post-season, they don't win the
Series. Will you agree that winning a division is a useful intermediate
goal in ring-collecting?
If so, you must agree that winning games is a useful intermediate goal
towards winning the division, and our disagreements come when we consider
how to win games.
In your viewpoint as expressed, winning games happens for reasons that
cannot be analyzed. While many of us are thinking things like "Base-
runners are good, outs are bad, and therefore walks are better than
double plays with the bases loaded", you are thinking things like
"It's a team game, so perhaps the double play will cause some mysterious
team dynamics that will cause the team to win today".
The result is that it becomes impossible to say *anything* about individual
players. Perhaps Atlanta would have won the Series with me playing left
field. After all, perhaps in some way my knowledge and personality would
have helped the team more than my complete lack of skill would have hurt
it. Therefore, I could be an extremely valuable player. Did Dave Winfield
have anything to do with the Jays' victory? Probably, but how do you know?
If you replace him with Andres Galarraga, perhaps the Jays would have won,
perhaps they would have lost, perhaps they would have defected to Alpha
Centauri (bearing in mind that the flying saucers would not have landed
in mid-season had Winfield been DHing for Toronto).
Was Babe Ruth a good player? He played on some WS-winning teams, but did
he have anything to do with their success?
It is generally accepted that Ernie Banks was a good baseball player, and
Jarvis Brown and Dan Schatzeder weren't. It seems to me that anybody who
would deny this needs to provide the proof.
Now, we have observed things about baseball over the years, both empirically
and by looking at the rulebook. It is necessary to score more runs than
one's opponent to win the game, so it would seem important to score runs
and to prevent one's opponent from scoring. Runs are scored while a team
is batting, and an inning ends after the third out, so it would seem that
making outs is bad while hitting home runs is good. Players have tendencies
to hit or pitch at certain levels, and these are usually somewhat consistent
from year to year.
We do use these statistics to predict winners, and so do you. To make
some flat predictions: Barry Bonds will have a higher OBP+SLG than
Gene Larkin this year. The Braves will finish ahead of the Rockies
in the standings. The Tigers will score more runs than the Royals, but
will also give up more. I would be astonished if any of these turned
out to be false, and, I suspect, so would you. As a matter of fact, I
am pretty sure I can predict all the division winners this year, given
3-4 guesses per division, and this is certainly better than random
chance (and almost statistically significant).
If you will admit that the Rockies and Mariners are unlikely to meet in
the World Series, you must admit that there is some sort of way to measure
likelihoods, however fuzzy.
>
>It is impossible for all other things to be equal so your fantasy is totally
>meaningless.
>
So how about "real life"? Person A robs a service station with two people
in it, using a .38 automatic pistol, gets $42, and is convicted and sentenced
for three years. Person B, with a similar criminal record, robs a service
station with two people in it, using a .38 revolver, gets $42, and is
convicted. Since they used two different types of handgun, are comparisons
totally meaningless?
Say you drop a pencil to see if the gravity still works (my cats are always
testing this - they don't trust me to pay the gravity bill on time). You
have never dropped a pencil at that exact time of the century before, so
all previous evidence is meaningless? Or would you be surprised if it flew
out the window instead of hitting the desk?
David Thornley, who has no replica World Series rings, but does have tickets
to the 1992 World Series in the Metrodome.
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon
In article <1993Apr15.222600.11690@research.nj.nec.com>
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes:
> ...
> Several chemists already have come up with several substitutes for
> R12. You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning
Society
> (MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per
> retrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash
those
> R12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very
shaky
> technical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst).
> ...
Now, I'm not saying you're wrong because I know that the R-12 substitutes
exist, but this sounds a lot like the 200mpg carbs that the oil companies
keep us all from getting.
Mark
| 7rec.autos |
Re: Conference on Manned Lunar Exploration. May 7 Crystal City
prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes:
>AW&ST had a brief blurb on a Manned Lunar Exploration confernce
>May 7th at Crystal City Virginia, under the auspices of AIAA.
>Does anyone know more about this? How much, to attend????
A good summary has been posted (thanks), but I wanted to add another comment.
I remeber reading the comment that General Dynamics was tied into this, in
connection with their proposal for an early manned landing. Sorry I don't
rember where I heard this, but I'm fairly sure it was somewhere reputable.
Anyone else know anything on this angle?
Hrumph. They didn't send _me_ anything :(
--
Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
"Find a way or make one."
-attributed to Hannibal
| 14sci.space |
Re: "So help you God" in court?
bobbe@vice (Robert Beauchaine;6086;59-323;LP=A;YAyG) Pontificated:
>
> I guess I don't understand the problem. I've never had any
> problem swearing and using the name of "god" in the same sentence.
> Comes quite naturally, as a matter of facxt.
>
I would guess that you either mean that you don't have a problem
swearing aligance to a non-existant being or that you are being
deliberatily dense (considering what group this is).
It doesn't come "quite naturally" to nonbelievers such as myself
or even to followers of other religions. Would you say it would
be quite natural if you were forced to swear by "Allah" or
"Budda"?
/~~~(-: James T. Green :-)~~~~(-: jgreen@oboe.calpoly.edu :-)~~~\
| "At all times and in all nations, |
| the priest has been hostile to liberty." |
| <Thomas Jefferson> |
| 0alt.atheism |
Re: Peace Talks
In article <1993May13.201441.23139@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>It seems that, to keep the peace talks going, Israel has to keep
>making goodwill gesture after goodwill gesture, while Palestinian
>Arabs continue to go around hunting Jews.
You *know* that putting something like this out on the newsgroup is *only*
going to generate flames, not discussion. Try adding some substance to
the issue of "gestures" you mentioned.
>
>If the peace talks are going to have any realistic chance of success,
>the Arabs are going to have to start reciprocating, especially since
>they are the ones who will be getting tangible concessions in return
>for giving up only intangibles.
What is it you feel that Israel *has* offered as a "gesture"? What would
you (*realistically*) expect to see presented by the Arabs/Palestinians
in the way of "gesture"?
>If they keep trying to change the already agreed upon rules, which seems
>to be one of their favorite games, the Israelis are not likely to be very
>confident that the intangibles they will receive at the bargaining table
>will be worth the parchment they're written on.
What are the "rules" that have been bent by Arab actions? It would seem
that the Israeli deportations were seen by the other side as an example
of "changing the rules".
>
>It takes two to negotiate a peace. It's time for the Arabs to start
>doing their share.
>
>Alan H. Stein astein@israel.nysernet.org
--
Tim Clock Ph.D./Graduate student
UCI tel#: 714,8565361 Department of Politics and Society
fax#: 714,8568441 University of California - Irvine
Home tel#: 714,8563446 Irvine, CA 92717
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
Re: Xsun not finding default font (Sol2.1)
joel@zodiac.z-code.COM (Joel Reymont) writes:
>Hi, netters!
>I've just built X11R5 pl 21 under Solaris 2.1. I've used the multi-screen
>patch, as well as the R5.SunOS... patch and everything builds great, except
>for that error message Xsun gives me upon startup. It says:
>"Cannot set default font path '[stuff deleted]'" and "Cannot set default font
>'fixed'". If I supply the -fp option, it doesn't complain about the font path
>but still complains about the font. I have symlinks from /usr/lib/ to the
>place where my distribution lives.
Try to run Xsun under truss(1).
The best way to do this is by logging in over the network
and typing:
truss -t open Xsun
open("/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/misc/fonts.dir", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8
open("/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/misc/fonts.alias", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8
open("/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/fonts.dir", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8
open("/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/fonts.alias", O_RDONLY, 0666) Err#2 ENOENT
open("/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/fonts.dir", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8
open("/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/fonts.alias", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8
open("/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/fonts.dir", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8
open("/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/fonts.alias", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8
open("/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/misc/6x13.pcf", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8
open("/opt/X11R5/lib/X11/fonts/misc/cursor.pcf", O_RDONLY, 0666) = 8
This will give you and idea of where Xsun things the fonts should be.
If you have defined a project root and done a make install, everything
should have gone right by default, even without symbolic links.
Casper
| 5comp.windows.x |
Re: X Windows for windows
PC-Xview from NCD, HCL-eXceed from Hummingbird Software!
================================================================
_| _/ _/ _/_/_/ _| All opinions expressed are _|
_| _/ _/ _/ _| my own because nobody else _|
_| _/ _/ _/_/_/ _| wants them! _|
_| _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _| jls@antares.larc.nasa.gov _|
_| _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _| Jon L. Sweet _|
================================================================
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
Re: CLINTON JOINS LIST OF GENOCIDAL SOCIALIST LEADERS
In article <16BB88F6D.R1328@vmcms.csuohio.edu> R1328@vmcms.csuohio.edu writes:
> In article <1r5rnn$rdt@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
> bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray) writes:
>
> >
> >In a previous article, nomad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Michael Larish) says:
> >
> >>In article <1r00ug$d60@btr.btr.com> michaelh@public.btr.com (Michael Hahn
michaelh@btr.com) writes:
> >>>A partial list of excellent socialist visionaries and the tolls they've
> >>>taken of unpopular religious/ethnic/social groups.
> >>>
> >>>Mao Tse-Tung Millions Killed
> >>>J. Stalin Millions Killed
> >>>A. Hitler Millions Killed
> >>>Pol Pot 100,000s Killed?
> >>>W. J. Clinton ~100 Killed, but relax-he's only had a hundred
or so days.
> >>
> >> You people are rather amusing in a perverse sort of way. You take
> >>a tragic/unpleasant situation that you feel is a terrible injustace, and
> >>assign blame to anybody and everybody with or without a link to the
incident
> >>simply because they don't fit your extremely narrow definition of good.
> >>
> >> How is Clinton responsible? It was a law enforcement action.
> >>Granted, it was a nationally covered incident but Clinton had no more to
> >>do with the outcome than Fred Flintstone.
> >>
> >Perhaps you've been under a rock the last few days? The BATF and the FBI
> >are both federal agencies. Clinton has admitted in front of news cameras
> >that Janet Reno (the once and future Attorney General) gave him a full
> >briefing of what was planned *before* they did it, and he gave her the
> >go ahead.
> >
> >Maybe, just possibly, that makes him a *teensy* bit responsible?
> >
> >>--
> The FBI, CIA, BATF, etc. ARE federal agencies, you are correct. But to
> think there is a visible and clear chain of command up to the Prez, and
> that these agencies inform Reno who informs Clinton, etc. is naive. These
> agencies operate as distinct and seperate entities and while they have
> ultimate accountability to the Prez, they make their own moves, and then
> tell the Prez, who says, "I knew all along". While this may not seem right,
> or it may not fit our idealistic need to see a structured chain of command
> leading to the White House, thats the way it is. Bureaucracys are not, after
> all, composed of 3 or 4 people who talk on a regular basis, have lunch, and
> maybe golf together. I do agree, the FBI, BATF messed up. I'm not sure if
> they should have stormed the compound or not. By the way, Jehova Witnesses
> are a religious minority in this country. Protestantism is a minority
> religion in the World. BDs were a cult by all definitions and history of
> cults. To say this is not to persecute a religious or ethnic enclave.
> Koresh said he was the Messiah. I was raised a Baptist, although I do
> not practice the religion and do not think that the Big Guy upstairs is
> digging the divisiveness, closemindedness, and right-wing morons that are
> associated with the religion. Anyway, the Messiah that I was taught about
> would not be carrying a gun, let alone stockpiling weapons. You can doubt
> BATF reports all you want, David Koresh was not a poor soul who was
> unjustly persecuted. While some of the information coming from the U.S
> government is being exagerated so as keep public opinion on their side, I
> do believe that some of the things that former cult members have said
> are true. Anyway, this is just another excuse to try and blame President
> Clinton for something. People who attempt to do this for political motives
> should be ashamed. THEY are the ones who are keeping this country from
> reaching its full potential.
>
>
>
You seem to make two points. No one ultimately oversees the federal agencies
you mention, and since Koresh "apparently" has a different view point from your
Baptist upbringing, then he is not worthy of protection from religious
persecution. As to being the Messiah, is not Christ within us all?
Must be comforting to belong to a government approved religion.
Baptists are a cult, two, BTW, under most of the definitions in the dictionary
of "cult".
Jim
--
jmd@handheld.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm always rethinking that. There's never been a day when I haven't rethought
that. But I can't do that by myself." Bill Clinton 6 April 93
"If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop was landed
in my country, I never would lay down my arms,-never--never--never!"
WILLIAM PITT, EARL OF CHATHAM 1708-1778 18 Nov. 1777
| 16talk.politics.guns |
Re: Laser vs Bubblejet?
Just thought I would add $0.02 to DeskJet thread. I got my
first one in college about 5 or so years ago.
I've been a happy HP user of the DeskWriter for Macintosh for
past 5 years. I got one just a few months after their release. And I
got software revision 1.0a (now I'm up to rev. 3.1. Our family (sister
and father) have each purchased their own DW's after seeing mine go
for one year unscathed (their stuck to their trusty ImageWriter II's).
The original DW has gone for 5 years at moderate personal use. I would
say that it has gone through at least 15,000 sheets, and around one
(small) ink cartridge every 3 months or so.
My brother might take this DW now (I'm probably gonna give it
to him), and I am looking to upgrade to a color DW. The chief
advantages/disadvantages I've found over the years are:
Advantages: Quick (2-3 ppm), Quiet (roomate can sleep while it's
printing), AppleTalk Networkable (unfortunately the original wasn't,
so look out if you buy used. I rewired our home with phonenet
AppleTalk connectors, and while home, we can all use my dad's one
DW!), and cheap (now run ~$300). BTW, you can upgrade older DW's to
color or for appletalk, I dunno if HP still does the upgrades, but I
received many offers (I just didn't ned it however). Also, crisp
laser-quality output is a wonder (used to really impress those
ImageWriter Dot-Matrix people so much so, that I had to charge $0.25
per sheet to stop my college dorm neighbors from bothering me at all
hours of the night....)
Disadvantages. Ink used to be hard to find, and wasn't cheap, and
wasn't originally water-proof. While HP has done wonders with the ink
(I dunno if it's still toxic), it is still subjet to smearing and
running (if you run around in the damp Boston rain, and get your
bookbag completely soaked). Ink now runs about $14-$15 for small carts
(I get mine from Elek-Tek in Chicago, I think they're now down to
$12). The ink carts used to say they're dated for only 6 months, but
I don't think they say so anymore. We stick to a 4 month supply (of
about 3 carts). We use cheap Hammerhill Laser Print paper (after
fooling for a long time. Laser/Xerox paper is also good). Smearing
doesn't happen, unless you have a brand new ink cart and you grab the
paper and smudge it all over as soon as it comes out of the machine.
Other disadvantages are : No Postscript (this can be an advantage in
speed, usually). Ways around this are Ghostscript or Freedom of Press
software solutions. I bet HP probably has a PS prototype inkjet, but
they won't release it for fear of hurting LJ sales.
In the end, the primary advantages of laser are true postscript
(unless you go for cheap lasers), and fused toner (no smearing, even
when soaking in water). Lasers are slightly sharper, but the only
instance where I needed precise layouts was Printed Circuit Board
Transparencies for PhotoEtching. I found a Textronix color Phaser
Postscript (Thermal Wax Transfer) to work the best to make PCB
negatives directly onto a transparency.
Well, hope my babbling has helped.
-squish@endor.harvard.edu
| 12sci.electronics |
Re: Changing Motherboards - Messing With Connectors
In article <93105.073119IP06015@portland.caps.maine.edu> Jozef Slaby <IP06015@portland.caps.maine.edu> writes:
>When I changed my motherboard I had a lot of trouble getting
>LED,SPKR,TURBO,TURBOSWITCH,HDD,KLCK,RST, connectors correctly
>reconnected. For example Turbo Switch had three wires and
>the motherboard connection only two pins... and so on.
>
>Does anyone know a solution to this. Do I need to rewire the
>connectors or what is the best way to approach this.
>It is somewhat frustrating. I got it to work somehow but my Turbo
>switch doesn't work at all.
>
I just put replaced the motherboard in a system and had similar questions.
My 2 cents worth:
The speaker connector should have two wires going to the speaker.
A speaker being a coil, it's bidirectional and makes no difference
which way you attach.
Turbo switch. There are three wires to control how you want turbo
to become active- with the switch pushed in or the switch out. I think
the middle wire is common. Use an ohm meter to figure out which wire
connects with the common wire when the switch is pushed in, and which two
wires are connected when the switch is out. Place the appropriate
two wires on the turbo berg connector of the motherboard.
LED's: (Turbo and HD) LED's are uni directional. Depending which
way the wires are attached the LED will not light. On my AMI motherboard,
if the turbo switch wires are not attached to the berg connector on the
board, the board will power up in default in Turbo mode. If your motherboard
is like that... just attace the LED wires to the board. If the LED doesn't
light, power off, reverse the connectors and try again. It should work.
If it does, then attach the turbo switch to the board.
Hope this helps.
Dan Moyer
Dan.Moyer@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
| 3comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware |
Re: a universal RIGHT to bear arms? NOT!
rats@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Morris the Cat) writes:
>|| Wrong again, but if you want proof: turn on your TV and look
>||for a show starring Chuck Connors. It was called, "The Rifleman."
>||Time how fast he can fire that old lever-action rifle.
>|Believe it or not, I remember seeing an advertisement for someone
>|selling one of these; apparently Winchester produced a bunch of
>|these commercially to commemorate the television show. I believe it was
>|being sold as a handgun because of the barrel length and lack of a stock.
>I might be mistaking the above weapon for the gun used by Steve
>McQueen in "Wanted: Dead or Alive." If so, sorry. Did Winchester
>make any commemorative models of the rifle used by Chuck Connors
>in the movie? Chuck Connors was an NRA member before he died recently...
I don't know for sure if Winchester made any commemeratives. If I
recall correctly, the rifle itself was a .44-40 Model 92 with an
oversized loop lever. I don't think Winchester makes this rifle
any more. Rossi make a Model 92 look-alike in .38 Special and
.357 Magnum.
aaron
arc@cco.caltech.edu
| 16talk.politics.guns |
Genesis + Sega CD + Games forsale
********* Sega Genesis + Sega CD Forsale *******
Recently moved in with some friends who have genesis + Cd player so I'm selling my whole setup. I'd like to sell everything together. The package come with....
Sega Genesis
Sega CD
2 Joysticks
1 Pad
Sewer Shark (CD)
Sol-Feace (CD)
Sega Classics (CD) (5 Games on 1 CD)
Streets of Rage
Revenge of Shinobi
Columns
Golden Axe
Sherlock Holmes (CD)
CD+G Music + graphics sampler
John Madden 92' (Cart)
******************************************************************************** I'm selling all of the above for $325 plus I'll split shipping. I
don't want to sell things seperately. Please reply to jth@bach.udel.edu
********************************************************************************
Thanks,
Jay
| 6misc.forsale |
Re: Nazi Eugenic Theories Circulated by CPR => (unconventianal peace)
In article <1993Apr19.223054.10273@cirrus.com> chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe) writes:
>Now we have strong evidence of where the CPR really stands.
>Unbelievable and disgusting. It only proves that we must
>never forget...
>
>
>>A unconventional proposal for peace in the Middle-East.
>
>Not so unconventional. Eugenic solutions to the Jewish Problem
>have been suggested by Northern Europeans in the past.
>
> Eugenics: a science that deals with the improvement (as by
> control of human mating) of hereditory qualities of race
> or breed. -- Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary.
>
>>I would be thankful for critical comments to the above proposal as
>>well for any dissemination of this proposal for meaningful
>>discussion and enrichment.
>>
>>Elias Davidsson Post Box 1760 121 Reykjavik, ICELAND
>
>Critical comment: you can take the Nazi flag and Holocaust photos
>off of your bedroom wall, Elias; you'll never succeed.
>
>-- Chris Metcalfe
Chris, solid job at discussing the inherent Nazism in Mr. Davidsson's post.
Oddly, he has posted an address for hate mail, which I think we should
all utilize. And Elias,
Wie nur dem Koph nicht alle Hoffnung schwindet,
Der immerfort an schalem Zeuge klebt?
Peace,
pete
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
Re: Windows zip/unzip
In article <1rl9b6$h3c@sol.deakin.OZ.AU> russ@deakin.OZ.AU (Russ Sharp) writes:
>We are using pkzip V2.04 and I am interested to hear from
>people who have used one of the many Windows programs that
>call these.
>Which ones are available and does any one stand out amongst
>the rest?
>Is there a full windows version that does not call the DOS
>PKZIP/PKUNZIP commands?
Do you mean a prog. that doesn't jump to the DOS display and then back or
create a temp. DOS window?
If yes then I might recommend WinZip from ftp.cica.indiana.edu. I'm afraid
I don't have the file name or version but you should be able to find it.
It's fully compatible with ver. 2.04g and very functional.
Later,
Phil Trodwell
*** This space ***| "I'd be happy to ram a goddam 440-volt cattle
*** for rent. ***| prod into that tub with you right now, but not
*** (cheap) ***| this radio!" -Hunter S. Thompson
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
MFM controller, copy card for sale
16 bit MFM FD/HD controller - $25/b.o.
copy card w/ software and cable - $30/b.o.
(can copy any protected software)
if interested, please reply to this account
--
==wun-chun Chau===============================What a crazy world!=============
INTERNET:wchau@eng.buffalo.edu UUCP: ...!{rutgers,uunet}!cs.buffalo.edu!wchau
INTERNET:wchau@cs.buffalo.edu BITNET: wchau%cs.buffalo.edu@ubvm.bitnet
===============Do you want to die young? If you know what I mean :) ==========
| 6misc.forsale |
Re: Info/Opinions Wanted on Cars In this Article
In article <C5st37.HF3@ns1.nodak.edu> bell@plains.NoDak.edu (Robert Bell) writes:
>In article <1993Apr13.182100.26650@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>>In article <49071@fibercom.COM> rrg@rtp.fibercom.com (Rhonda Gaines) writes:
>>>
>>>I'm in the market for a new car. Currently I own a '90 Mazda MX-6 DX
>>>which has served me just fine. However, I'd like to get
>>>a 4-door car since I don't relish the thought of moving a carseat
>>>around in a 2-door car. My criteria are: 4-door, a/c, am/fm cassette,
>>>quick acceleration, cruise control, decent rear seat legroom (my
>>>husband is a 6-footer). It must also be under $20k
>>>preferably closer to the 11-15k range (which will probably rule out
>>>the Accord). The '93 cars that have caught my eye are: Toyota Corolla,
>>>Toyata Camry, Mazda 626, Pontiac Grand Am, Pontiac Grand Prix,
>>>Honda Accord, (and Civic if it's roomy enough and still comes in a
>>>4-door model), Hyundai Sonata, and maybe even a small Oldsmobile,
>>>although not the Achieva. All opinions, benchmarks,
>>>recommendations, etc. are welcome.
The Civic does still come in a 4 door model. My wife and I looked
quite seriously at the 626, Prizm (Corolla), and Civic, as well as
some other cars. Our impressions: all three seemed well built and had
the features we wanted - these are similar to the features you want
except for cruise control, and we want a manual transmission and are
considering anti-lock brakes. I also hate automatic seatbelts and we
both think having an airbag is a plus. In general, comfort and
performance were both significant.
Some specific +'s and -'s are listed below.
Mazda 626
+ very comfortable and roomy
+ can theoretically get ABS on DX model, though in practice this is
hard to find
+ base price for base model includes numerous little things like:
tach, variable speed wipers, rear defroster, 60/40 split folding rear seat
- more expensive than many other cars listed below
Honda Civic
+ DX gets significantly better mileage than other cars listed here
+ comfortable front seat
+ adjustable seat belt mounting
- no ABS without EX model (includes $1000's of other things like a sunroof)
Geo Prizm/Toyota Corolla
- seats not very comfortable to us (your mileage may vary)
+ adjustable seat belt mounting
+ can get ABS without lots of other extras
Saturn
+ SL2 was quite comfortable, though SL1 less so
- motorized attack belts
Dodge Spirit
no real outstanding +'s, but seemed generally ok
- rear seat does not fold down
Chevy Corsica
+ comes with ABS standard
- lower "would you buy that car again" and safety ratings in
Consumer Reports (than first 3 cars above)
- suspension didn't feel as stiff as the others (this would be a +
for some)
The Honda Accord and Toyota Camry were both more expensive than the
626, and in our minds, not significantly better.
We probably gave disproportionately low consideration to the "big 3",
due (a) to my wife's family's general dislike of Chrysler products,
(b) some unimpressive GM products owned by my parents and a housemate
of mine (c) the Taurus comes with automatic transmission, I find the
seat of the Tempo very uncomfortable, and the escort has attack belts
and no air bag.
We'll probably end up with a 626 - I saw a 626 DX with A/C and
cassette advertised for just under $12800 (Washington Post, April 14,
I think), and my local dealer says they can match that price. I will
probably get the 626 (maybe tomorrow). The main question in my mind
is whether or not I will have to do a "factory order" or "preference
order" to get one with ABS, and whether or not the dealership will
run the price up a lot if I do so.
| 7rec.autos |
Lois Chevrolet?
I was whatching The History Of The Indy 500 the other day,
and early in the film, around the '10-'20's, a name, Lois Chevrolet,
came out of the blue. I wanted to know if he is THE Chevrolet founder
or mearly a driver who's name was called the same as the other guy's?:^)
KONI.
| 7rec.autos |
ET4000 linear mode ??
Hi
I have heard about a linear mode for the ET4000, in which the 1Mb video
memory in linearly accesibly instead of the usual 64k pages. Does anyone
know more about this ? How can I enable it and to what address is the
video memory mapped to ?
A. Mostert
Stellenbosch, RSA
mostert@cs.sun.ac.za
| 3comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware |
Re: The arrogance of Christians
In article <Apr.13.00.08.47.1993.28427@athos.rutgers.edu>, hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes) writes:
>
> Say, for example, there are people living on a volcanic island, and a group
> of geologists determine that a volcano is imminent. They warn the people on
> the island that they are in danger, and should leave. A group of people on
> the island is given the task of warning others of the danger.
>
> They believe the danger is real, but others may not.
>
> Does that mean that the first group are NECESSARILY arrogant in warning
> others of the danger? Does it mean that they are saying that their beliefs
> are correct, and all others are false?
But what if the geologists are wrong and these people are warning of a
non-existent danger? Analogies can only push an argument so far (on both
sides). Both Melinda's and yours assume the premises used to set up your
respective analogies are true and thus the correct conclusion will arise.
The important point to note is the different directions both sides come from.
Christians believe they know the TRUTH and thus believe they have the right
(and duty) to tell the TRUTH to all.
Christians can get offended if others do not believe (what is self-evidently
to them) the TRUTH. Non-christians do not believe this is the TRUTH and get
offended at them because they (christians) claim to know the TRUTH.
(BTW this argument goes for anyone, I am not just bagging christians)
Neither side can be really reconciled unless one of the parties changes their
mind. As Melinda pointed out, there is no point in arguing along these lines
because both approach from a different premise. A more useful line of
discussion is WHY people believe in particular faiths.
Personally, I don't mind what anyone believes as long as they allow me mine
and we can all live peacefully.
> Steve Hayes, Department of Missiology & Editorial Department
--
Don Lowe, Department of Physics, Monash University,
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, 3168.
| 15soc.religion.christian |
Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened?
In article <C5u5nv.JGs@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM> mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes:
>So you feel that owning guns makes him a threat to society. When are y ou
>going to start going after knives and baseball bats as well.
... only the aluminum baseball bat. Clearly a crime against the
sport.
spl
--
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu
San Diego Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UC San Diego/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"My other car is a car, too."
- Bumper strip seen on I-805
| 19talk.religion.misc |
wanted: adb mouse, keybd
wanted: apple adb mouse and keyboard
contact Paul Gribble at above email address asap. Paul G.
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
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