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The Thunderlords
The Thunderlords are an American heavy metal band. They describe themselves as "heavy metal for kids."
Career
The band began primarily as the work of video-game programmer Alan Flores, a native of Los Angeles, with some help from his young daughter, Maya (born 2000).
The 2005 album Noisy Songs for Noisy Kids has charted on children's music charts in the US, Australia and Belgium.
They are known best for their songs "I Like Dirt" and "Ice Cream Headache" on the soundtracks for the bestselling video games Tony Hawk's American Wasteland, Tony Hawk's Project 8 and Tony Hawk’s American Sk8land respectively. The latter game also won the IGN award for Best Licensed Soundtrack on PlayStation 3 in 2006.
Members
* Alan Flores - vocals, all instruments
* Maya Flores - vocals
Discography
* Noisy Songs for Noisy Kids (Album, 2005) | WIKI |
1941 Boston Red Sox season
The 1941 Boston Red Sox season was the 41st season in the franchise's Major League Baseball history. The Red Sox finished second in the American League (AL) with a record of 84 wins and 70 losses, 17 games behind the New York Yankees, who went on to win the 1941 World Series.
The Red Sox featured five future Hall of Famers: player-manager Joe Cronin, Bobby Doerr, Jimmie Foxx, Lefty Grove, and Ted Williams.
Offseason
* Prior to 1941 season: Virgil Stallcup was signed as an amateur free agent by the Red Sox.
Regular season
Williams was one of the biggest stories of the 1941 major league season, becoming,, the last player to bat .400 (batting .406) in a full season. He led an offense that scored the most runs of any major league team. During the season, Williams reached base safely in 69 consecutive games.
Transactions
* September 8: The Red Sox announce that they have purchased shortstop Johnny Pesky from the Louisville Colonels and shortstop Eddie Pellagrini from the San Diego Padres of the Pacific Coast League.
Player stats
Note: Stats in brackets are derived from Retrosheet which differ from official MLB stats.
Starters by position
Abbreviations: Pos=Position; GP=Games Played; AB=At Bats; R=Runs; H=Hits; 2B=Doubles; 3B=Triples; HR=Home Runs; RBI=Runs Batted In; BB=Walks; AVG=Batting Average; OBP=On Base Percentage; SLG=Slugging Percentage
Other batters
Abbreviations: GP=Games Played; AB=At Bats; R=Runs; H=Hits; 2B=Doubles; 3B=Triples; HR=Home Runs; RBI=Runs Batted In; BB=Walks; AVG=Batting Average; OBP=On Base Percentage; SLG=Slugging Percentage
Pitchers
Abbreviations: GP=Games Played; AB=At Bats; R=Runs; H=Hits; 2B=Doubles; 3B=Triples; HR=Home Runs; RBI=Runs Batted In; BB=Walks; AVG=Batting Average; OBP=On Base Percentage; SLG=Slugging Percentage
Pitching
Note: GP=Games Played; GS=Games Started; IP=Innings Pitched; H=Hits; BB=Walks; R=Runs; ER=Earned Runs; SO=Strikeouts; W=Wins; L=Losses; SV=Saves; ERA=Earned Run Average
Relief pitchers
Note: GP=Games Played; GS=Games Started; IP=Innings Pitched; H=Hits; BB=Walks; R=Runs; ER=Earned Runs; SO=Strikeouts; W=Wins; L=Losses; SV=Saves; ERA=Earned Run Average
Awards and honors
* Ted Williams, 20th-century record, Highest on-base percentage in one season (.553)
All-Stars
* Joe Cronin starting SS
* Dom DiMaggio reserve
* Bobby Doerr starting 2B
* Jimmie Foxx reserve
* Ted Williams starting LF
League top five finishers
Dom DiMaggio
* Third in MLB in Runs Scored (117).
Dick Newsome
Fifth in MLB in Wins (19).
* Third in AL in Wins.
Charlie Wagner
* 3 in AL in ERA (3.07)
Ted Williams
* AL leader, reached base safely in 69 consecutive games.
* MLB leader in batting average (.406).
* MLB leader in home runs (37).
* MLB leader in runs scored (135).
* MLB leader in on-base percentage (.553).
* MLB leader in slugging percentage (.735).
* MLB leader in walks drawn (145).
* 4 in AL in RBI (120)
Farm system
Source: | WIKI |
positive punk
Etymology
So called because it lacked the nihilistic aggression of the wider subculture. .
Noun
* 1) Gothic rock. | WIKI |
Selective Smad4 knockout in ovarian preovulatory follicles results in multiple defects in ovulation
时间：2013年06月01日 访问次数:2047
Mol Endocrinol. 2013;27(6):966-78.
Chao Yu, Yin-Li Zhang , Heng-Yu Fan*
Abstract
The TGF-β signaling pathway is involved with multiple processes in the mammalian ovary, including primordial follicle formation, granulosa cell (GC) proliferation, follicle atresia, ovulation, and feedback regulation between the pituitary and ovary. The transcriptional factor SMAD4 (Sma- and Mad-related protein 4) is the central component of the canonical TGF-β signaling pathway. Smad4 knockout (KO) using Amhr2-Cre, which is expressed in GCs of immature developing follicles, causes premature luteinization. In this study, we specifically depleted Smad4 in GCs of preovulatory follicles using Cyp19-Cre mice. As different from results with Smad4fl/fl;Amhr2-Cre mice, Smad4 depletion in preovulatory follicles did not cause premature luteinization or suppress GC proliferation; rather, it increased follicle atresia. In addition, Nppc and Npr2 expressions were reduced by Smad4 depletion; thus, their effect of maintaining oocyte meiotic arrest was weakened in Smad4 conditional KO mice. Smad4fl/fl;Cyp19-Cre female mice were subfertile and had irregular estrous cycles and ovulation defects. Smad4 KO also blocked LH-induced cumulus expansion and follicle rupture, but not oocyte meiotic resumption. Our results also indicated that SMAD4 was required for LH-stimulated activation of ERK1/2 and the expressions of ovulation-related genes. The defects arising from SMAD4 depletion could not be rescued by intraovarian mediators of LH actions, such as epidermal growth factor-like factors and prostaglandin E2. Furthermore, corpus lutea did not form in Smad4fl/fl;Cyp19-Cre female mice, indicating that SMAD4 was crucial for GCs terminal differentiation. Thus, by characterizing the ovarian phenotypes of preovulatory follicle-specific Smad4 KO mice, we identified the developmental stage-specific functions of the canonical TGF-β signaling pathway in ovulation and luteinization.
全文链接：http://mend.endojournals.org/content/27/6/966.long | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
These 3 Tech Stocks Are Building the Future
COVID-19 lockdowns in 2020 and 2021 forced countless businesses to move their work online, increasing demand for online services. Yet, even as the world opens up again, many companies have retained various aspects of working online.
That means demand for digital services will likely continue to rise over the long term. Industries such as artificial intelligence (AI), cloud computing, and virtual and augmented reality (VR/AR) have massive potential in the coming years and are attractive sectors for investment.
Companies innovating in these markets should make excellent stocks to hold over the long term as they profit from the development of tech. Here are three tech stocks that are building the future.
1. Apple
Apple (NASDAQ: AAPL) shares have soared 37% since the start of the year, rallying investors with expanding prospects in multiple high-growth sectors. The company is not always the first to a market, but it has proven talent at taking existing technology and presenting it in a way that attracts millions of consumers.
Apple has done just this with smartphones, tablets, smartwatches, and headphones, achieving leading market shares in each of these product categories.
Consequently, the company's recent venture into VR/AR looks promising. The VR market on its own is projected to expand at a compound annual growth rate of 45% through 2029. Meta Platforms and Sony have dominated the industry in recent years, but Apple has the brand loyalty and vast resources to eventually outperform these companies.
Moreover, the potency of Apple's products could see it become a leading driver in the adoption of AI services by the public. The company is gradually increasing its AI-enabled features across its product lineup and has built a framework for creating large language models similar to the ones running OpenAI's ChatGPT.
While its stock has risen 238% in the last five years, Apple remains a screaming buy as it continues to innovate and build the future.
2. Microsoft
As the home of such brands as Office, Windows, Azure, and Xbox, Microsoft (NASDAQ: MSFT) has become one of the biggest names in software. Its stature in tech has provided it with the resources to invest heavily in emerging markets and expand its business.
In 2019, the tech giant invested $1 billion in OpenAI, with that figure increasing by $10 billion after the launch of ChatGPT last year. The partnership has allowed Microsoft to obtain exclusive licenses to several of the start-up's AI models, giving it an edge over competitors like Amazon and Alphabet.
Microsoft has used OpenAI's technology to introduce artificial intelligence upgrades across its software lineup. Meanwhile, the company has increased its investment in the sector by backing chipmaker Advanced Micro Devices (NASDAQ: AMD). Microsoft is reportedly providing financial and engineering assistance to AMD in an effort to create an alternative to Nvidia when it comes to AI chips.
Thousands of businesses worldwide have come to depend on Microsoft's productivity software. As it continues to expand its catalog of AI services, revenue will likely continue rising alongside its stock price.
3. Advanced Micro Devices
A swiftly expanding tech industry has made it a no-brainer to add a chip stock to your portfolio. Many industries will require high-powered chips to move forward, and AMD is one of the biggest names in that market.
AMD has become a significant growth driver in tech by supplying its hardware across the industry. The company's chips can be found in countless devices, from game consoles to laptops, custom-built PCs, and data centers worldwide.
As a result, AMD has entered into lucrative partnerships with many of the world's most valuable companies. AMD supplies chips to Sony and Microsoft's PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X|S game consoles. Meanwhile, the company's hardware powers cloud platforms such as Azure, Google Cloud, and Oracle.
Since the start of 2023, AMD has pivoted much of its business to AI as it works to steal market share from Nvidia. Many companies are rooting for AMD as increased competition will bring down the cost of chips.
As the semiconductor company continues to expand and chip demand rises across tech, AMD's stock appears a compelling investment.
10 stocks we like better than Apple
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See the 10 stocks
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Suzanne Frey, an executive at Alphabet, is a member of The Motley Fool's board of directors. John Mackey, former CEO of Whole Foods Market, an Amazon subsidiary, is a member of The Motley Fool's board of directors. Dani Cook has no position in any of the stocks mentioned. The Motley Fool has positions in and recommends Advanced Micro Devices, Alphabet, Amazon.com, Apple, Microsoft, Nvidia, and Oracle. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.
The views and opinions expressed herein are the views and opinions of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of Nasdaq, Inc. | NEWS-MULTISOURCE |
Toyota's Hino, VW's truck unit tie up to reduce R&D costs
TOKYO (Reuters) - The truck units of Toyota Motor (7203.T) and Volkswagen AG (VOWG_p.DE) are forming an alliance to bolster their market positions as commercial vehicle makers face growing costs to develop lower-emission vehicles and automated driving capabilities. The strategic tie-up of Toyota subsidiary Hino Motors (7205.T) and Volkswagen Truck & Bus GmbH is the latest in the global vehicle industry, where automakers seek to jointly tackle the high costs of developing self-driving vehicles and new transportation services like ride sharing. The two truck makers said on Thursday they will consider cooperating in areas such as diesel and gasoline-electric hybrid engines, connectivity and self-driving technologies, adding their combined output could offer economies of scale in research and development (R&D) as well as procurement. “We can join forces and spend R&D money only once instead of twice or three times,” Volkswagen Truck & Bus GmbH Chief Executive Officer Andreas Renschler told reporters at an event in Tokyo to announce the agreement. “We see potential to save on our budgets and also to combine our resources to be faster at bringing products to market than we would be alone.” The companies were not considering the possibility of cross- shareholding at the moment, a Hino spokesman said. Both Volkswagen Truck & Bus, the world’s third-largest commercial vehicle maker, and Hino said the partnership would not change their respective relationships with their parent groups which are fierce competitors in passenger cars. The tie-up comes after Volkswagen bought a 16.6 percent stake in Navistar International Corp (NAV.N) in 2016 with an eye to buying all of the U.S. truckmaker. The two partners plan to launch an electric medium-duty truck in North America by 2019. Volkswagen AG aims to list its trucks and buses operations in the first quarter of next year, according to two people with knowledge of the matter, as the German automaker considers a broader structural overhaul to boost efficiency. Posting sales of around 205,000 units last year, Volkswagen Truck & Bus supplies commercial vehicles mainly in Europe and South America under its MAN, Scania and Volkswagen Caminhões e Ônibus brands. It has been growing its presence in Asia and holds a stake in Chinese truck maker Sinotruk. Its chief competitors are Daimler and Volvo trucks, with which it competes mainly in the European market. Hino sold around 170,000 vehicles in 2017, roughly 70 percent of which were sold in Japan and the rest of Asia, where it dominates the large commercial vehicle market. It has been growing operations in Africa and North America. Reporting by Naomi Tajitsu; Addional reporting by Minami Funakoshi; Editing by Chang-Ran Kim and Muralikumar Anantharaman | NEWS-MULTISOURCE |
Flute/Fingering Chart
Fingering chart
Fingering charts use symbols to communicate which keys should be pressed in order to play the desired note. The blackened keys should be closed, while the white keys should be left open.
To learn more, watch this video on how to use a fingering chart.
Now that you know how to use a fingering chart, here are two quality charts:
* 1) wfg.woodwind.org - fingering chart for your desktop computer
* 2) fingercharts.com - fingering chart for your phone or tablet
For a printable chart, you can use the one below. | WIKI |
Ocean margins: the missing term for oceanic element budgets?
Figure1_Highlight2Jeandel, Catherine, Peucker-Ehrenbrink, Bernhard, Jones, Morgan T., Pearce, Christopher R., Oelkers, Eric H., Godderis, Yves, Lacan, François, Aumont, 0livier and Arsouze, Thomas
This paper underlines how poor is our understanding of the land-to-ocean element flux and rises the question of the “submarine weathering”. Indeed, isotopes of Nd, Si, Fe, Ra as well as REE, TDFe or Ba concentrations reveal that release from sediment deposited on oceanic margins can be a significant source for dissolved elements in seawater; processes yielding this release need to be understood (e.g: Boundary nepheloid layers could enhance it). This source, potentially important, has to be taken in account in oceanic budgets and climate models.
Eos, Vol. 92, No. 26, 28 June 2011
Latest highlights
Science Highlights
Loss of old Arctic sea ice increases methylmercury concentrations
Researchers from the SCRIPPS, the Stockholm Natural Museum and the Mediterranean Institute of Oceanography show the importance of sea ice composition on methylmercury budgets
02.09.2020
Science Highlights
Estimating Atmospheric Trace Element Deposition Over the Global Ocean
A recently developed method based on the natural radionuclide Be-7 has provided a means to estimate the bulk atmospheric trace element deposition velocity
Science Highlights
Dissolved gallium unravels Pacific and Atlantic waters in the Arctic Ocean
Whitmore and co-workers demonstrate that the dissolved gallium distribution provide a better water source deconvolution than the nutrient tracers
22.07.2020
Science Highlights
Precise estimate of the mercury export from the Arctic to the Atlantic Ocean
Using new observations acquired during GEOTRACES Arctic cruises, a refined arctic mercury budget has been established
21.07.2020
Rechercher | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
User:Corpus1
A cool, understanding Person that helps out pages about to be deleted at Articles for deletion
People Important that need a page:
Rosaile Poe
David Poe Jr.
Awards:
None at the moment
Articles
Start Class: Greeks in Germany Formerly Stub
Stubs:
Legend
Need: The article's importance, regardless of its quality
Quality: current article quality Gradings are discussed in detail below.
Grading Scheme
These are the detailed criteria per class/quality division, following the assessment scheme used by the Wikipedia V1.0 Editorial team. | WIKI |
Question NVMe SSD occasionally disappears from the Boot Menu on Lenovo laptop ?
Jul 7, 2023
3
0
10
Hey guys ,
I am using a Lenovo Ideapad 3 Gaming -15ACH6 which has an internal NVMe SSD that has Windows 11 installed on it which works perfectly fine (mostly) when randomly sometimes the laptop when turned on , stops detecting the drive and it disappears from the Boot Menu in BIOS as well, it just shows the error that says Boot failed or boot device not found and then proceeds to show all the bootable devices of which there are none.
Now to fix this I just leave the laptop turned off for a few seconds or a minute and then voila ! it boots normally again into Windows no problem.
I thought this could've been a BIOS issue , so I recently updated to the latest BIOS available for my laptop but the problem still persists .. One thing you might wanna know is that yes, I have opened up the laptop once since it was bought last year to upgrade the RAM by adding another 8 gig stick and also adding an extra SATA SSD , which does not have any operating system on it and is only used for storing applications and games.
Should I open up the laptop and try re-seating the SSD or is this related to some other issue ?
Please let me know , since this issue started plaguing my laptop only a few weeks ago, considering the Laptop is rather new I find this concerning on the laptop's overall health
Thanks !
Lutfij
Titan
Moderator
Welcome to the forums, newcomer!
You stated updating the BIOS for the laptop. I'd try and power down the laptop, disassemble it and then disconnect the battery, then press and hold down the power button for 30 seconds(while there is no power hooked to the laptop) and then reconnect the battery, then power up the laptop and see if the issue persists.
Can you check and see what the make and model of your SSD is off of Device Manager?
• Like
Reactions: Someone_
Jul 7, 2023
3
0
10
Welcome to the forums, newcomer!
You stated updating the BIOS for the laptop. I'd try and power down the laptop, disassemble it and then disconnect the battery, then press and hold down the power button for 30 seconds(while there is no power hooked to the laptop) and then reconnect the battery, then power up the laptop and see if the issue persists.
Can you check and see what the make and model of your SSD is off of Device Manager?
Hey ,
I actually wanted to know just that , if opening the laptop would be required .. I actually tried doing this without opening the laptop i.e. completely discharging the battery (I know its bad for battery health but its easier than opening the laptop and risk breaking the plastic tabs) . That didn't do anything and the problem persisted . The SSD in question is the Samsung MZALQ256HBJD-00BL2 . Rather common SSD it seems as per google search.
Jul 7, 2023
3
0
10
Hey ,
I actually wanted to know just that , if opening the laptop would be required .. I actually tried doing this without opening the laptop i.e. completely discharging the battery (I know its bad for battery health but its easier than opening the laptop and risk breaking the plastic tabs) . That didn't do anything and the problem persisted . The SSD in question is the Samsung MZALQ256HBJD-00BL2 . Rather common SSD it seems as per google search.
Hey !
Any updates ? Anything ? Fixes or suggestions ? Cause today it went all out, the laptop did turn on but no display at all now, the laptop would indicate it has turn on since the keyboard lit up and the keyboard backlit on and off function was working but absolutely no display, clicking the caps lock key did not light it up either, meaning it wasn't booting. Thankfully someone on Lenovo forums recommended a complete discharge/static discharge by holding the power button for 60 seconds and then plugging the charger in again. After waiting a few seconds, it spun back to life back again, I thought it might be a BIOS issue so I reset the BIOS and it still boots fine but who says it won't exhibit the issue again ? Any permanent fixes guys ? Since the issue it seems is progressing and I DO NOT wanna risk my laptop in any way or form.
Thanks !
| ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
User:Sskayan
Hi, I am a Iraqi-born Swede trying to translate some articles for the first time on Wikipedia. | WIKI |
Orcein
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Orcein, also archil, orchil, lacmus and C.I. Natural Red 28, are names for dyes extracted from several species of lichen, commonly known as "orchella weeds", found in various parts of the world. A major source is the archil lichen, Roccella tinctoria. Orcinol is extracted from such lichens. It is then converted to orcein by ammonia and air. In traditional dye-making methods, urine was used as the ammonia source. If the conversion is carried out in the presence of potassium carbonate, calcium hydroxide, and calcium sulfate (in the form of potash, lime, and gypsum in traditional dye-making methods), the result is litmus, a more complex molecule.[1] The manufacture was described by Cocq in 1812 [2] and in the UK in 1874.[3] Roberts noted orchilla as a principal export of the Cape Verde islands, superior to the same kind of moss found in Italy or the Canaries, that in 1832 was yielding an annual revenue of $200,000.[4]:pp.14,15 Commercial archil is either a powder (called cudbear) or a paste. It is red in acidic pH and blue in alkaline pH.
Orcein is approved as a food dye (banned in Europe since January 1977), with E number E121 before 1977 and E182 after.[5] Its CAS number is 1400-62-0. Its chemical formula is C28H24N2O7. It forms dark brown crystals. It is a mixture of phenoxazone derivates - hydroxyorceins, aminoorceins, and aminoorceinimines.
The chemical components of orcein were elucidated only in the 1950s by Hans Musso.[6] The structures are shown below. A paper originally published in 1961, embodying most of Musso's work on components of orcein and litmus, was translated into English and published in 2003[7] in a special issue of the journal Biotechnic & Histochemistry (Vol 78, No. 6) devoted to the dye. A single alternative structural formula for orcein, possibly incorrect, is given by the National Library of Medicine [1] and Emolecules [2].
Orcein is a reddish-brown dye, orchil is a purple-blue dye. Orcein is also used as a stain in microscopy to visualize chromosomes,[8] elastic fibers,[9] Hepatitis B surface antigens,[10] and copper-associated proteins.[11]
Cudbear[edit]
Cudbear is a dye extracted from orchil lichens that produces colours in the purple range. It can be used to dye wool and silk, without the use of mordant.
Cudbear was developed by Dr Cuthbert Gordon of Scotland: production began in 1758, and it was patented in 1758, British patent 727 [3]. The lichen is first boiled in a solution of ammonium carbonate. The mixture is then cooled and ammonia is added and the mixture is kept damp for 3–4 weeks. Then the lichen is dried and ground to powder. The manufacture details were carefully protected, with a ten-feet high wall being built around the manufacturing facility, and staff consisting of Highlanders sworn to secrecy. The lichen consumption soon reached 250 tons per year and import from Norway and Sweden had to be arranged.[4]
Cudbear was the first dye to be invented in modern times, and one of the few dyes to be credited to a named individual.
Similar process was invented in France. The lichen is extracted by urine or ammonia. Then the extract is acidified, the dissolved dye precipitates and is washed. Then it is dissolved in ammonia again, the solution is heated in air until it becomes purple, then it is precipitated with calcium chloride; the resulting insoluble purple solid is known as French purple, a fast lichen dye that was much more stable than other lichen dyes.
Gallery[edit]
See also[edit]
References[edit]
1. ^ Beecken, H; E-M Gottschalk, U v Gizycki, et al. (2003). "Orcein and litmus". Biotechnic & Histochemistry 78 (6): 289–302. doi:10.1080/10520290410001671362.
2. ^ Cocq M. (1812). Mémoire sur la fabrication et l'emploi de l'orseille. Annales de Chimie 81:258–278. Cited in: Chevreul ME. (1830). Leçons de chimie appliquée à la teinture. Paris: Pichon et Didier. p 114–116.
3. ^ A Leeds Workman. 1874. Manufacture of Archil and Cudbear. Chemical News 30(173):143.
4. ^ Roberts, Edmund (Digitized 12 October 2007) [First published in 1837]. Embassy to the Eastern courts of Cochin-China, Siam, and Muscat : in the U. S. sloop-of-war Peacock ... during the years 1832-3-4. Harper & brothers. OCLC 12212199.
5. ^ http://www.additifs-alimentaires.net/E121.php?src_reg
6. ^ Musso H. 1960. Orcein- und Lackmusfarbstoffe: Konstitutionsermittlung und Konstitutionsbeweis durch die Synthese. (Orcein and litmus pigments: constitutional elucidation and constitutional proof by synthesis.) Planta Medica 8:431–446. doi:10.1055/s-0028-1101580.
7. ^ Beecken H, Gottschalk EM, von Gizycki U, Kramer H, Maassen D, Matthies HG, Musso H, Rathjen C, Zdhorsky UI (2003) Orcein and litmus. Biotechnic & Histochemistry 78: 289-302.
8. ^ La Cour L (1941) Acetic-orcein: a new stain-fixative for chromosomes. Stain Technology 16: 169-174.
9. ^ Friedberg SH, Goldstein DJ (1969) Thermodynamics of orcein staining of elastic fibres. Histochemical Journal 1: 261-376.
10. ^ Fredenburgh JL, Edgerton SM, Parker AE (1978) A modification of the aldehyde fuchsin and orcein stains for hepatitis B surface antigen in tissue and a proposed chemical mechanism. Journal of Histotechnology 1: 223-228.
11. ^ Henwood A (2003) Current applications of orcein in histochemistry. A brief review with some new observations concerning influence of dye batch variation and aging of dye solutions on staining. Biotechnic & Histochemistry 78: 303-308.
External links[edit] | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Quickstart: Azure Cosmos DB for Apache Gremlin library for .NET
APPLIES TO: Gremlin
Azure Cosmos DB for Apache Gremlin is a fully managed graph database service implementing the popular Apache Tinkerpop, a graph computing framework using the Gremlin query language. The API for Gremlin gives you a low-friction way to get started using Gremlin with a service that can grow and scale out as much as you need with minimal management.
In this quickstart, you use the Gremlin.Net library to connect to a newly created Azure Cosmos DB for Gremlin account.
Library source code | Package (NuGet)
Prerequisites
Azure Cloud Shell
Azure hosts Azure Cloud Shell, an interactive shell environment that you can use through your browser. You can use either Bash or PowerShell with Cloud Shell to work with Azure services. You can use the Cloud Shell preinstalled commands to run the code in this article, without having to install anything on your local environment.
To start Azure Cloud Shell:
Option Example/Link
Select Try It in the upper-right corner of a code or command block. Selecting Try It doesn't automatically copy the code or command to Cloud Shell. Screenshot that shows an example of Try It for Azure Cloud Shell.
Go to https://shell.azure.com, or select the Launch Cloud Shell button to open Cloud Shell in your browser. Screenshot that shows how to launch Cloud Shell in a new window.
Select the Cloud Shell button on the menu bar at the upper right in the Azure portal. Screenshot that shows the Cloud Shell button in the Azure portal
To use Azure Cloud Shell:
1. Start Cloud Shell.
2. Select the Copy button on a code block (or command block) to copy the code or command.
3. Paste the code or command into the Cloud Shell session by selecting Ctrl+Shift+V on Windows and Linux, or by selecting Cmd+Shift+V on macOS.
4. Select Enter to run the code or command.
Setting up
This section walks you through creating an API for Gremlin account and setting up a .NET project to use the library to connect to the account.
Create an API for Gremlin account
The API for Gremlin account should be created prior to using the .NET library. Additionally, it helps to also have the database and graph in place.
1. Create shell variables for accountName, resourceGroupName, and location.
# Variable for resource group name
resourceGroupName="msdocs-cosmos-gremlin-quickstart"
location="westus"
# Variable for account name with a randomly generated suffix
let suffix=$RANDOM*$RANDOM
accountName="msdocs-gremlin-$suffix"
2. If you haven't already, sign in to the Azure CLI using az login.
3. Use az group create to create a new resource group in your subscription.
az group create \
--name $resourceGroupName \
--location $location
4. Use az cosmosdb create to create a new API for Gremlin account with default settings.
az cosmosdb create \
--resource-group $resourceGroupName \
--name $accountName \
--capabilities "EnableGremlin" \
--locations regionName=$location \
--enable-free-tier true
Note
You can have up to one free tier Azure Cosmos DB account per Azure subscription and must opt-in when creating the account. If this command fails to apply the free tier discount, this means another account in the subscription has already been enabled with free tier.
5. Get the API for Gremlin endpoint NAME for the account using az cosmosdb show.
az cosmosdb show \
--resource-group $resourceGroupName \
--name $accountName \
--query "name"
6. Find the KEY from the list of keys for the account with az-cosmosdb-keys-list.
az cosmosdb keys list \
--resource-group $resourceGroupName \
--name $accountName \
--type "keys" \
--query "primaryMasterKey"
7. Record the NAME and KEY values. You use these credentials later.
8. Create a database named cosmicworks using az cosmosdb gremlin database create.
az cosmosdb gremlin database create \
--resource-group $resourceGroupName \
--account-name $accountName \
--name "cosmicworks"
9. Create a graph using az cosmosdb gremlin graph create. Name the graph products, then set the throughput to 400, and finally set the partition key path to /category.
az cosmosdb gremlin graph create \
--resource-group $resourceGroupName \
--account-name $accountName \
--database-name "cosmicworks" \
--name "products" \
--partition-key-path "/category" \
--throughput 400
Create a new .NET console application
Create a .NET console application in an empty folder using your preferred terminal.
1. Open your terminal in an empty folder.
2. Use the dotnet new command specifying the console template.
dotnet new console
Install the NuGet package
Add the Gremlin.NET NuGet package to the .NET project.
1. Use the dotnet add package command specifying the Gremlin.Net NuGet package.
dotnet add package Gremlin.Net
2. Build the .NET project using dotnet build.
dotnet build
Make sure that the build was successful with no errors. The expected output from the build should look something like this:
Determining projects to restore...
All projects are up-to-date for restore.
dslkajfjlksd -> \dslkajfjlksd\bin\Debug\net6.0\dslkajfjlksd.dll
Build succeeded.
0 Warning(s)
0 Error(s)
Configure environment variables
To use the NAME and URI values obtained earlier in this quickstart, persist them to new environment variables on the local machine running the application.
1. To set the environment variable, use your terminal to persist the values as COSMOS_ENDPOINT and COSMOS_KEY respectively.
export COSMOS_GREMLIN_ENDPOINT="<account-name>"
export COSMOS_GREMLIN_KEY="<account-key>"
2. Validate that the environment variables were set correctly.
printenv COSMOS_GREMLIN_ENDPOINT
printenv COSMOS_GREMLIN_KEY
Code examples
The code in this article connects to a database named cosmicworks and a graph named products. The code then adds vertices and edges to the graph before traversing the added items.
Authenticate the client
Application requests to most Azure services must be authorized. For the API for Gremlin, use the NAME and URI values obtained earlier in this quickstart.
1. Open the Program.cs file.
2. Delete any existing content within the file.
3. Add a using block for the Gremlin.Net.Driver namespace.
using Gremlin.Net.Driver;
4. Create accountName and accountKey string variables. Store the COSMOS_GREMLIN_ENDPOINT and COSMOS_GREMLIN_KEY environment variables as the values for each respective variable.
string accountName = Environment.GetEnvironmentVariable("COSMOS_GREMLIN_ENDPOINT")!;
string accountKey = Environment.GetEnvironmentVariable("COSMOS_GREMLIN_KEY")!;
5. Create a new instance of GremlinServer using the account's credentials.
var server = new GremlinServer(
hostname: $"{accountName}.gremlin.cosmos.azure.com",
port: 443,
username: "/dbs/cosmicworks/colls/products",
password: $"{accountKey}",
enableSsl: true
);
6. Create a new instance of GremlinClient using the remote server credentials and the GraphSON 2.0 serializer.
using var client = new GremlinClient(
gremlinServer: server,
messageSerializer: new Gremlin.Net.Structure.IO.GraphSON.GraphSON2MessageSerializer()
);
Create vertices
Now that the application is connected to the account, use the standard Gremlin syntax to create vertices.
1. Use SubmitAsync to run a command server-side on the API for Gremlin account. Create a product vertex with the following properties:
Value
label product
id 68719518371
name Kiama classic surfboard
price 285.55
category surfboards
await client.SubmitAsync(
requestScript: "g.addV('product').property('id', '68719518371').property('name', 'Kiama classic surfboard').property('price', 285.55).property('category', 'surfboards')"
);
2. Create a second product vertex with these properties:
Value
label product
id 68719518403
name Montau Turtle Surfboard
price 600.00
category surfboards
await client.SubmitAsync(
requestScript: "g.addV('product').property('id', '68719518403').property('name', 'Montau Turtle Surfboard').property('price', 600.00).property('category', 'surfboards')"
);
3. Create a third product vertex with these properties:
Value
label product
id 68719518409
name Bondi Twin Surfboard
price 585.50
category surfboards
await client.SubmitAsync(
requestScript: "g.addV('product').property('id', '68719518409').property('name', 'Bondi Twin Surfboard').property('price', 585.50).property('category', 'surfboards')"
);
Create edges
Create edges using the Gremlin syntax to define relationships between vertices.
1. Create an edge from the Montau Turtle Surfboard product named replaces to the Kiama classic surfboard product.
await client.SubmitAsync(
requestScript: "g.V(['surfboards', '68719518403']).addE('replaces').to(g.V(['surfboards', '68719518371']))"
);
Tip
This edge defintion uses the g.V(['<partition-key>', '<id>']) syntax. Alternatively, you can use g.V('<id>').has('category', '<partition-key>').
2. Create another replaces edge from the same product to the Bondi Twin Surfboard.
await client.SubmitAsync(
requestScript: "g.V(['surfboards', '68719518403']).addE('replaces').to(g.V(['surfboards', '68719518409']))"
);
Query vertices & edges
Use the Gremlin syntax to traverse the graph and discover relationships between vertices.
1. Traverse the graph and find all vertices that Montau Turtle Surfboard replaces.
var results = await client.SubmitAsync<Dictionary<string, object>>(
requestScript: "g.V().hasLabel('product').has('category', 'surfboards').has('name', 'Montau Turtle Surfboard').outE('replaces').inV()"
);
2. Write to the console the static string [CREATED PRODUCT]\t68719518403. Then, iterate over each matching vertex using a foreach loop and write to the console a message that starts with [REPLACES PRODUCT] and includes the matching product id field as a suffix.
Console.WriteLine($"[CREATED PRODUCT]\t68719518403");
foreach (var result in results ?? Enumerable.Empty<Dictionary<string, object>>())
{
Console.WriteLine($"[REPLACES PRODUCT]\t{result["id"]}");
}
Run the code
Validate that your application works as expected by running the application. The application should execute with no errors or warnings. The output of the application includes data about the created and queried items.
1. Open the terminal in the .NET project folder.
2. Use dotnet run to run the application.
dotnet run
3. Observe the output from the application.
[CREATED PRODUCT] 68719518403
[REPLACES PRODUCT] 68719518371
[REPLACES PRODUCT] 68719518409
Clean up resources
When you no longer need the API for Gremlin account, delete the corresponding resource group.
1. Create a shell variable for resourceGroupName if it doesn't already exist.
# Variable for resource group name
resourceGroupName="msdocs-cosmos-gremlin-quickstart"
2. Use az group delete to delete the resource group.
az group delete \
--name $resourceGroupName
Next step | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Documentation
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Note: This page has been translated by MathWorks. Please click here
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Troubleshooting and Limitations Compiling C/C++ MEX Files with MinGW-w64
Do Not Link to Library Files Compiled with Non-MinGW Compilers
If you use the MinGW® compiler to build a MEX file that links to a library compiled with a non-MinGW compiler, such as Microsoft® Visual Studio®, the file will not run in MATLAB®. Library (.lib) files generated by different compilers are not compatible with each other.
You can generate a new library file using the dlltool utility from MinGW.
MinGW Installation Folder Cannot Contain Space
Do not install MinGW in a location with spaces in the path name. For example, do not use:
C:\Program Files\mingw-64
Instead, use:
C:\mingw-64
MEX Command Does not Choose MinGW
If you only have the MinGW compiler installed on your system, the mex command automatically chooses MinGW for both C and C++ MEX files. If you have multiple C or C++ compilers, use mex -setup to choose MinGW for both C and, if required, C++ MEX files.
mex -setup
mex -setup cpp
If you only type mex -setup choosing MinGW, when you compile a C++ file, mex might choose a different compiler.
Manually Configure MinGW for MATLAB
When you install MinGW from the MATLAB Add-Ons menu, MATLAB automatically detects the MinGW compiler.
If necessary, you can manually configure MinGW, if you have Windows® administrative privileges, using the configuremingw script. To download this script, see the MATLAB Answers article https://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/answers/313298-i-already-have-mingw-on-my-computer-how-do-i-configure-it-to-work-with-matlab.
MinGW Behaves Similarly to gcc/g++ on Linux
When modifying compiler flags using the mex command, use the Linux® compiler flags CFLAGS or CXXFLAGS instead of the Windows flag COMPFLAGS.
Potential Memory Leak Inside C++ MEX Files on Using MEX Exceptions
Error handling in C++ MEX files compiled with the MinGW-w64 compiler is not consistent with MATLAB error handling. If a C++ MEX file contains a class, using the mexErrMsgIdAndTxt function to throw a MEX exception can cause a memory leak for objects created for the class.
For example, the following C++ MEX function contains class MyClass.
#include "mex.h"
class MyClass {
public:
MyClass() {
mexPrintf("Constructor called");
}
~MyClass() {
mexPrintf("Destructor called");
}
};
void mexFunction(int nlhs, mxArray *plhs[], int nrhs, const mxArray *prhs[])
{
MyClass X;
if (nrhs != 0) {
mexErrMsgIdAndTxt("MATLAB:cppfeature:invalidNumInputs",
"No input arguments allowed.");
}
}
The MEX function creates object X from MyClass, then checks the number of input arguments. If the MEX function calls mexErrMsgIdAndTxt, the MATLAB error handling does not free memory for object X, thus creating a memory leak.
Unhandled Explicit Exceptions in C++ MEX Files Unexpectedly Terminate MATLAB
If a function in a C++ MEX file throws an explicit exception which is not caught inside the MEX file with a catch statement, then the exception causes MATLAB to terminate instead of propagating the error to the MATLAB command line.
#include "mex.h"
class error {}; // Throw an exception of this class
class MyClass
{
public:
MyClass(){
mexPrintf("Constructor called.");
}
~MyClass(){
mexPrintf("Destructor called.");
}
};
void doErrorChecking(const MyClass& obj)
{
// Do error checking
throw error();
}
void createMyClass()
{
MyClass myobj;
doErrorChecking(myobj);
}
void mexFunction(int nlhs, mxArray *plhs[], int nrhs, const mxArray *prhs[])
{
createMyClass();
}
The MEX function calls createMyClass, which creates an object of class MyClass and calls function doErrorChecking. Function doErrorChecking throws an exception of type error. This exception, however, is not caught inside the MEX file and causes MATLAB to crash.
This behavior also occurs for classes inheriting from the class std::exception.
Work around
Catch the exception in the MEX function:
void mexFunction(int nlhs, mxArray *plhs[], int nrhs, const mxArray *prhs[])
{
try{
createMyClass();
}
catch(error e){
// Error handling
}
}
See Also
Related Topics
Was this topic helpful? | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
'Young Kiv,' 'D3liveranc3' charge into Madden Challenge quarters
Shay “Young Kiv” Kivlen and Michael “D3liveranc3” Pinter topped their groups to roll into the quarterfinals of the Madden NFL 20 Challenge on Friday in Redwood City, Calif. Sixteen players began the $190,000 tournament on Thursday, broken into four round-robin groups. The winner of each group advanced directly to the quarterfinals, while the second- and third-place teams in each groups met in wild-card games to earn the right to advance. D3liveranc3 went 3-0 to top Group C. Young Kiv topped Group D at 2-1. In the day’s first wild-card game, Group D runner-up “Wesley” defeated Group C third-place finisher “JD” 17-0. The second wild-card game saw 17-year-old “Noah,” the runner-up from Group C, top Group D third-place player Hassan “Gos” Spall 17-12. “I’m super hyped,” Noah said postgame in the tournament’s Twitch stream. “I just love to compete. That’s what’s driving me.” In the quarterfinals on Saturday, Noah will meet Young Kiv, and D3liveranc3 will play against Wesley. In the other half of the quarterfinal bracket, which was determined Thursday, Raidel “Joke” Brito will oppose “Henry,” and Dwayne “Cleff” Wood II will square off with Douglas “Crush” Thiel. The event will conclude on Saturday with the quarterfinals, semifinals and final. The winner will take home $35,000 and 1,000 Madden Championship Series points. Second place will get $25,000 and 800 points. The champion and runner-up will qualify for the 16-team Madden Bowl in April. —Field Level Media | NEWS-MULTISOURCE |
Docker image for Brian 1
Brian 1 depends on Python 2.x and other outdated dependencies, so running it on modern systems has become difficult. To make it more convenient to reproduce old results obtained with Brian 1, we now provide a Docker image :whale: that you can use to run existing Brian 1 code. It is based on a Debian Linux image, and provides Brian 1.4.3, as packaged by the NeuroDebian team.
The image is hosted on the Docker hub. To use it, you either need to have docker or podman installed – if using podman, replace the docker commands below by podman.
Running a graphical interface within the docker container can be complicated, and the details how to make it work depend on the host operating system. We therefore recommend to instead either 1) only use the container image to generate and save the simulation results to disk, and then to create the plots on the host system, or 2) to use the container image to plot files to disk by adding plt.savefig(...) to the script. The container already sets the matplotlib backend to Agg by default (by setting the environment variable MPLBACKEND), necessary to avoid errors when no graphical interface is available.
To download the image and to rename it to brian1 (for convenience only, the commands below would also work directly with the full name), use:
docker pull docker.io/briansimulator/brian1.4.3
docker tag briansimulator/brian1.4.3 brian1
The following command runs myscript.py with the container image providing Brian 1 and its dependencies, mapping the current directory to the working directory in the container (this means, the script has access to all files in the current directory and its subdirectories, and can also write files there):
docker run -v "$(pwd):/workdir" brian1 python myscript.py
For Windows users using the Command Prompt (cmd.exe) instead of the Powershell, the following command will do the same thing:
docker run -v %cd%:/workdir brian1 python myscript.py
To run an interactive ipython prompt, use:
docker run -it -v "$(pwd):/workdir" brian1 ipython
Depending on your operating system, files written by the container might be owned by the user “root”, which can lead to problems later (e.g. you cannot rename/move/delete/overwrite the file on your home system without administrator rights). On Unix-based systems, you can prevent this issue by running scripts with the same user id as the host user:
docker run -u $(id -u):$(id -g) -v "$(pwd):/workdir" brian1 python myscript.py
Please let us know if you run into any issues!
1 Like
@mstimberg on almost all big clusters Docker is prohibited due to security issues and inability to talk with SLURM. The standard container program on HPC is singularity. Singularity can read the docker images but does not always interpret and run them correctly. If you haven’t tested the brian1 image in singularity, I have a working singularity environment here and can try the image. Do you have a test script to run?
Hi. I hope no-one will use Brian 1 for any kind of serious work :grimacing:, so not sure whether this is really a problem in practice… But would be great if you could try it out. Basically running any Brian 1 example, e.g. Example: COBA (misc) — Brian 1.4.4 documentation, should show whether it works or not.
~$ singularity pull docker://briansimulator/brian1.4.3
INFO: Converting OCI blobs to SIF format
INFO: Starting build...
Getting image source signatures
Copying blob ddad87bfbb22 done
Copying blob e7c9a73d931d done
Copying blob 5200ccc0ea5c done
Copying config 17d34fd39f done
Writing manifest to image destination
Storing signatures
2023/01/31 11:54:38 info unpack layer: sha256:e7c9a73d931db662e1ca58d2354a3cea88bbf2585ff61462c8b69ea7dc737826
2023/01/31 11:54:38 warn rootless{usr/local/man} ignoring (usually) harmless EPERM on setxattr "user.rootlesscontainers"
2023/01/31 11:54:39 info unpack layer: sha256:5200ccc0ea5c1241d7f4f0a65e8561d35f2627dc8d359ad3d22f70ab79bcbc09
2023/01/31 11:54:40 info unpack layer: sha256:ddad87bfbb22559f2dc081c3a184981ba53934d6c058ad372cc3645d875400b6
INFO: Creating SIF file...
~$ singularity run brian1.4.3_latest.sif python br1-example.py
INFO: Converting SIF file to temporary sandbox...
Network construction time: 0.133754014969 seconds
Simulation running...
Simulation time: 0.684526920319 seconds
58059 excitatory spikes
14781 inhibitory spikes
INFO: Cleaning up image...
1 Like
Great, thanks for the feedback. I’ll add a note to Brian1’s README file and will also add a mention to the Brian 2 docs :+1:
1 Like
For reference: Container image for Brian 1 — Brian 2 2.5.1.post0.dev87 documentation
I did not go into details about singularity, but at least I mention it.
1 Like | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Talk:18 U.S.C. § 371
Notability?
This subject has not received significant coverage, which violates the general notability guideline. Also, there are no other pages on Wikipedia with similar content. (Possibly copied from source?) As a result, I think this article should be deleted. What do you think? TheAnonymous1065 (talk) 23:48, 7 July 2021 (UTC) | WIKI |
Talk:List of Battlestar Galactica video games
Overabundance of Second Life information
This seems too much for this article. The section is more about Second Life and what you can do with it, rather than a Battlestar Galactica video game entry. That is to say, people won't be coming to this page to read that section, and seems only for Second Life users. Therefore it belongs on a Second Life page. Furthermore it cites no sources until the singular one in the NBC Universal dispute and comes off like a review or editorial in many places, clearly written by an opinionated Second Life user. Propose to trim this section down to a summary or basic concept. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sherman24x (talk • contribs) 08:21, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
Bad link
It looks like the link to the freespace-related fan game is dead (indeed, its whole server is dead right now). If this lasts then we've no choice but to zap the link. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:00, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
A few edits
I've done a few things to fix the page up a bit. I fixed the grammar in the second section, added the BattlestarGalacticaTopics template, and edited the section titles to match the terminology used in other BSG articles. I'm also going to add links to this article to the BSG template. I haven't played any of the games, so I don't have much to add. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zorblek (talk • contribs) 23:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Re-imagined series game - good?
"The game receive an RTV rating of 92.67% only the fourth arcade game to be rated at over 90%." What is RTV? How come any other site I've seen says this game is very bad. Gamespot gives it 5.5. Can someone else confirm this? --Ljvillanueva (talk) 07:51, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
RE: Metacritic has it listed with an average rating of 55%. I think it's safe enough to assume that whoever inserted that 'fact' is full of crap. I'm going to go ahead and remove that line. -mclawson (talk) 03:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
* The new version, the proper 3d version, should be released this month, suprised no mention here. Made by Bigpoint, looks sweet —Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 07:42, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Split
I think the official BSG games deserve their own page, and if there's enough info on this article, we should split them right away. I own Battlestar Galactica (2003 video game) but haven't played it enough to contribute. Anybody up for the task? Punkalyptic (talk) 04:58, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on List of Battlestar Galactica video games. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
* Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120218141053/http://www.diaspora-game.com/faq.html to http://www.diaspora-game.com/faq.html
* Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120113214352/http://www.bsg-galactica.com/ to http://www.bsg-galactica.com/
* Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131217145503/http://battlestarmercury.com/wordpress/ to http://www.battlestarmercury.com/wordpress
* Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060719154302/http://www.battlestargalacticagame.com/ to http://www.battlestargalacticagame.com/
* Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120113214352/http://www.bsg-galactica.com/ to http://www.bsg-galactica.com/
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:24, 17 May 2017 (UTC) | WIKI |
Script resources.
This topic contains 1 reply, has 2 voices, and was last updated by Don Jones 4 months, 4 weeks ago.
• Author
Posts
• #71549
Dan Potter
Participant
Got some time to play around with dsc again. I've written a simple script, or so I thought. It won't apply to the machine and the get/set/test don't show up int get-dscconfiguration
ConfigurationName : Basebuild
DependsOn :
ModuleName : PSDesiredStateConfiguration
ModuleVersion : 1.1
PsDscRunAsCredential :
ResourceId : [Script]DisableRouterDiscovery
SourceInfo :
Credential :
GetScript :
Result : Disabled
SetScript :
TestScript :
PSComputerName :
CimClassName : MSFT_ScriptResource
Configuration Basebuild {
param(
[string[]]$ComputerName="localhost"
)
Import-DscResource –ModuleName 'PSDesiredStateConfiguration'
Node $ComputerName {
Script DisableRouterDiscovery
{
# Must return a hashtable with at least one key
# named 'Result' of type String
GetScript = {
Return @{
Result = [string]$((Get-NetIPInterface e* -AddressFamily Ipv6).routerdiscovery)
}
}
# Must return a boolean: $true or $false
TestScript = {
If (((Get-NetIPInterface e* -AddressFamily Ipv6).routerdiscovery) -contains 'Enabled') {
Write-Verbose "Routerdiscovery enabled for one or more interfaces"
Return $false
} Else {
Write-Verbose "Routerdiscovery disabled for all interfaces"
Return $true
}
}
# Returns nothing
SetScript = {
Write-Verbose "Disabling router discovery for all interfaces"
Get-NetIPInterface -AddressFamily IPv6 -InterfaceAlias e* | Set-NetIPInterface -RouterDiscovery disabled
}
}
}
}
Basebuild -computername mycomputer
• #71557
Don Jones
Keymaster
You're going to have to probably enable a DSCTrace on the Node where you're applying this, run a consistency check, and then see what winds up in the DSC event log.
I'm not sure what "won't apply to the machine" means – does that mean, it's "applying" but "not having any effect?" I'd have to look and see what the Test was doing, to see if the LCM even thought the Set should run or not. And then obviously if Test was working, see if the Set was chucking an error or something.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
User:Sjgreen35
At present, there is not much to say. To be straightforward on who I am, I work for the Nazarbayev University in Astana Kazakhstan. It is a university focused mainly on the sciences, technology and engineering with a small program in the humanities and social sciences. I have worked for four universities in Kazakhstan (Nazarbayev Univeristy, KIMEP, Sulieman Demerial University, and Kazakhstan National University named for Al-Faribi).
My interests are education in Central Asia and ethnic relations. | WIKI |
BI-LO® BI-LO Real Savings Real Fresh
So what’s the big deal about “gluten-free”?
Posted May 15, 2012 Review | Read Reviews (3037)
So what’s the big deal about “gluten-free”?
We all know that gluten-free foods are HOT right now – even some celebrities have been quoted as supporters of this seemingly trendy diet. However, it is important to realize why some people MUST avoid gluten for their health’s sake. To learn more, read on to see my top 5 gluten-related “frequently asked questions”, along with answers.
1. What is gluten?
Gluten is the term used to describe a type of protein found in wheat, barley and rye grains. In baked goods, gluten is the protein that gives rise and texture to many of our favorite breads, muffins and cakes. It is also found in many other foods like crackers, cereals, seasoning mixes, batters and even beer.
2. Why are some people intolerant of gluten?
In general, gluten is one of the toughest proteins for humans to digest. But in most healthy adults the body does not react negatively to gluten. However there are people who are considered to be “gluten intolerant” and there are some people who have celiac disease, and in both cases neither group should eat gluten-containing foods.
3. What is gluten intolerance?
It is possible to be gluten intolerant but not have celiac disease. Many people with this condition may have intestinal symptoms such as gas, bloating and diarrhea when eating
a diet that contains gluten. When they remove gluten from their diet, the symptoms go away. However, it is important that people with these symptoms seek medical attention and receive proper testing to determine the true cause of symptoms BEFORE trying a gluten free diet.
4. What is celiac disease?
Put simply, celiac disease is a disease that is passed through family genes that causes the body to attack itself when foods containing gluten are eaten. This attack happens mostly in the small intestine. If left untreated, this can lead to malabsorption, severe nutrient deficiencies and other complications.
5. How do you know if you have celiac disease?
Symptoms of celiac disease may include gas, bloating, diarrhea and unintentional weight loss, but may also include depression, infertility or a skin rash known as dermatitis herpetiformis. And surprisingly, some people with the disease do not experience symptoms until later in life. Even without symptoms, people with medically diagnosed celiac disease must follow a gluten free diet to prevent further health consequences.
In order to be diagnosed with true celiac disease you must continue to eat foods containing gluten and you must be tested by a gastroenterologist, a doctor who specializes in intestinal health. Several blood tests may be performed to test for markers of the disease but the “gold standard” test is an intestinal biopsy, where a small piece of tissue is taken from the small intestine and examined for damage. This testing process should be very thorough and always performed by a board-certified physician for the most reliable results.
May is National Celiac Awareness Month. For more information on celiac disease, check out www.celiac.nih.gov.
Tags
Body
Printed on May 25, 2013 at 8:18 am | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Low-rank canonical-tensor decomposition of potential energy surfaces: application to grid-based diagrammatic vibrational Green’s function theory
Prashant Rai, Khachik Sargsyan, Habib Najm, Matthew R. Hermes, So Hirata
Research output: Contribution to journalArticlepeer-review
5 Scopus citations
Abstract
A new method is proposed for a fast evaluation of high-dimensional integrals of potential energy surfaces (PES) that arise in many areas of quantum dynamics. It decomposes a PES into a canonical low-rank tensor format, reducing its integral into a relatively short sum of products of low-dimensional integrals. The decomposition is achieved by the alternating least squares (ALS) algorithm, requiring only a small number of single-point energy evaluations. Therefore, it eradicates a force-constant evaluation as the hotspot of many quantum dynamics simulations and also possibly lifts the curse of dimensionality. This general method is applied to the anharmonic vibrational zero-point and transition energy calculations of molecules using the second-order diagrammatic vibrational many-body Green's function (XVH2) theory with a harmonic-approximation reference. In this application, high dimensional PES and Green's functions are both subjected to a low-rank decomposition. Evaluating the molecular integrals over a low-rank PES and Green's functions as sums of low-dimensional integrals using the Gauss–Hermite quadrature, this canonical-tensor-decomposition-based XVH2 (CT-XVH2) achieves an accuracy of 0.1 cm−1 or higher and nearly an order of magnitude speedup as compared with the original algorithm using force constants for water and formaldehyde.
Original languageEnglish (US)
Pages (from-to)2120-2134
Number of pages15
JournalMolecular Physics
Volume115
Issue number17-18
DOIs
StatePublished - Sep 17 2017
Keywords
• Green's function theory
• Potential energy surfaces
• anharmonic vibrations
• tensor decomposition
Fingerprint Dive into the research topics of 'Low-rank canonical-tensor decomposition of potential energy surfaces: application to grid-based diagrammatic vibrational Green’s function theory'. Together they form a unique fingerprint.
Cite this | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Page:Miscellaneous Writings.djvu/408
382 were either a truism or a rule, my experience would contradict it and prove an exception.
No works on the subject of Christian Science existed, prior to my discovery of this Science. Before the publication of my first work on this doctrine, a few manuscripts of mine were in circulation. The discovery and founding of Christian Science has cost more than thirty years of unremitting toil and unrest; but, comparing those with the joy of knowing that the sinner and the sick are helped thereby, that time and eternity bear witness to this gift of God to the race, I am the debtor.
In the latter half of the nineteenth century I discovered the Science of Christianity, and restored the first patient healed in this age by Christian Science. I taught the first student in Christian Science Mind-healing; was author and publisher of the first books on this subject; obtained the first charter for the first Christian Science church, originated its form of government, and was its first pastor. I donated to this church the land on which in 1894 was erected the first church edifice of this denomination in Boston; obtained the first and only charter for a metaphysical medical college, was its first and only president; was editor and proprietor of the first Christian Science periodical; organized the first Christian Scientist Association, wrote its constitution and by-laws, as also the constitution and by-laws of the National Christian Science Association; and gave it The Christian Science Journal; inaugurated our denominational form of Sunday services, Sunday School, and the entire system of teaching and practising Christian Science.
In 1895 I ordained that the Bible, and “Science and | WIKI |
Nova Scotia Trunk 10
Trunk 10 is part of the Canadian province of Nova Scotia's system of Trunk Highways. This rural road runs from Bridgewater to Middleton, a distance of 88 km.
Route description
From Bridgewater, Trunk 10 runs in a northwesterly direction along the east bank of the LaHave River through Northfield and the village of New Germany, crossing the river near Cherryfield at the community of Meiseners Section. The route continues northwest by lakes, forests, Christmas tree farms, and cottages and through the villages of Springfield and Albany Cross, where it turns north and follows the Nictaux River near its west bank, to the route's end in the town of Middleton.
The section between Springfield and Albany Cross follows the route of the Old Annapolis Road. | WIKI |
It Still Runs is the go-to destination for all things cars. From motors to radiators and everything in between, we've got you covered.
x
What Is the Purpose of Airbags?
by Mike Charmaine
In U.S., since the year 1999, car makers have been required to install both driver and front-passenger airbags. Airbags help prevent head, chest and other severe injuries during a car collision. The bag is so designed that it can inflate in less than a second after a car collides; thus, it serves as a cushion and stops the head and chest from hitting the hard surfaces in the car.
Function
In a moving car, the passenger possesses a momentum which is the product of the person’s mass and the velocity of the car. When a collision occurs, the passenger may hit the dashboard or the windshield, which acts as a force against it and can seriously injure the person. An airbag adds a cushioning force, known as "impulse,” preventing the passenger from hitting the dashboard. According to Washington University, "the airbag must begin to deflate (i.e., decrease its internal pressure) by the time the body hits it," otherwise the pressurized air would create a hard surface.
Timeliness
The crash sensors of airbags take about 15 to 20 milliseconds to determine whether or not to activate the airbag. If sensors activate the airbag, it takes only about 20 milliseconds to inflate the airbag so the passenger can safely land into it.
How Airbags Work
An airbag system consists of a sensor that can recognize head-on collisions and immediately activate the inflating airbags. The sensor consists of a sliding steel ball. The ball is held by a permanent magnet which restricts the ball's motion when the car drives over uneven roads. But when a car collides, the ball moves very fast and turns on an electrical circuit. The electrical circuit ignites a pellet of sodium azide. This generates nitrogen gas which fills a nylon bag.
Limitations
The airbag system is not fool-proof. The crash sensors signal the airbag to inflate only if the vehicle is moving at least 6 kilometers per hour. If a car is being hit side on, the front airbags do not help.
Role of Seat Belts
The time taken for an airbag to inflate depends on whether the seat belt is in use or not. Because too many people don't wear seat belts, airbags are designed to infate with explosive force, according to the Dr. Spock website. The force of inflation can cause serious injury to a person who is seated very near to the airbag. Due to such a risk, you should never install infant seats in the front seat because it would put the infant too close to the airbag.
More Articles | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Plowing Through Earnings Season with a Bullish Outlook
InvestorPlace - Stock Market News, Stock Advice & Trading Tips
Where there are earnings reports, there is usually volatility.
We’ve echoed this sentiment for the last few weeks, but by the end of this week, we’ll have more than one-third of the expected earnings reports, which should give us an idea what to expect from the market in the near future.
Earnings have been good because companies have been able to pass along price increases to customers. In turn, customers continue to buy, and demand seems strong. However, inflation still looms, and the speculation of whether or not this trend will continue in Q2 is tripping up the market… which is a familiar story.
This is the exact situation we were in during January’s earnings season. The numbers were good, demand was strong, and the outlook was positive, but investors were worried that inflation would ruin things in the first quarter, so stock prices remained low. It’s a vicious cycle.
Taking all that into account, inflation expectations do seem to be easing a little this week. If commodity prices continue to decline, then expectations for inflation should drop even further, which is why the tech sector is leading the market.
With or without a change in inflation expectations, we think that tech is undervalued. This week, we’ve had our eye on tech companies like Microsoft (NASDAQ:MSFT) announcing better-than-expected earnings.
The question at this point is whether investors will continue to bet against the market fundamentals and keep prices low… or if the market will rally.
Falling Gold Is Good for Stocks
Gold prices are declining again, along with most energy basic commodities. While this might be disconcerting for “gold bugs,” this is actually a good sign for the stock market because of the impact it will have on inflation expectations.
From a technical perspective, a break of support in thegold marketshould trigger the next rally in the S&P 500.
What’s next for gold and the rest of the market?
Subscribe to our YouTube channel, Learning Markets, to find out, plus submit questions for John and Wade to answer live during our twice-weekly post-market breakdown.
Source: YouTube.com
Watch These Levels for Bear-Market Territory
Perhaps it doesn’t seem like it, but this earnings season has been successful in comparison to other recent quarters’ reports. According to Factset, 79% of companies who have reported earnings so far have exceeded expectations, including top tech companies, on which we’re still bullish.
Economic headwinds that continue to threaten the market still exist, of course, including looming inflation and rising rates in the 10-Year Treasury Yield (TNX), which is approaching 3%.
When the TNX is moving higher, it shows that traders believe the economy is growing and that the Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) may need to raise interest rates to keep inflation in check. The Fed likely will continue raising rates, as it has been for some time.
The S&P 500 (SPX) has found support around 4,165 and is currently bouncing up off this level, but we are primarily focused on support at 4,114.65 — the low set on Feb. 24 — for the long-term performance of the S&P 500 (see below).
If this level can hold, the S&P 500 has a good chance of consolidating between support at 4,114.65 and resistance at 4,650 during the rest of Q2.
What’s all this mean for you? Basically, if the S&P 500 doesn’t hold, we may have to start looking at the possibility of the S&P 500 reaching bear-market territory during 2022.
We’ll keep you updated on its progress.
High Hopes for Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, and Facebook
This earnings season, we have been waiting on four of the large market-cap stocks in the S&P 500 that could potentially lead the rally higher. Last night, Microsoft and Meta Platforms (NASDAQ:FB) did help boost the S&P 500, but Apple (NASDAQ:AAPL) and Amazon (NASDAQ:AMZN) may not cooperate today.
Yesterday, we saw that during after-hours trading, Apple dropped down. While the numbers they reported were fantastic (blowing the doors off earnings and revenue expectations) it is their guidance for the current quarter that has everyone concerned. Can these four stocks revive the index and help send the stock market higher? Check out the replay of last night’s livestream to take a closer look at their earnings reports and what they could mean for the market.
Source: YouTube.com
Need more insight into what’s happening in the market, including our tailored recommendations? Check out our trading research service Strategic Trader, where our goal is to give readers like you the best opportunities possible in any market condition. It doesn’t matter whether you’re trading options for the very first time or you’re looking for a new way to use options enhance your portfolio — we’ve got you covered. Details here.
The post Plowing Through Earnings Season with a Bullish Outlook appeared first on InvestorPlace.
The views and opinions expressed herein are the views and opinions of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of Nasdaq, Inc. | NEWS-MULTISOURCE |
BRIEF-Canadian Tire Corporation Says Q1 Same Store Sales Rose 5.2 Pct
May 10, 2018 / 10:28 AM / in 12 minutes BRIEF-Canadian Tire Corporation Says Q1 Same Store Sales Rose 5.2 Pct Reuters Staff
May 10 (Reuters) - Canadian Tire Corporation Ltd:
* CANADIAN TIRE CORPORATION REPORTS CONTINUED MOMENTUM IN FIRST QUARTER RESULTS * Q1 SAME STORE SALES ROSE 5.2 PERCENT
* Q1 EARNINGS PER SHARE VIEW C$1.38 — THOMSON REUTERS I/B/E/S
* CONSOLIDATED RETAIL SALES INCREASED $164.4 MILLION OR 6.4% IN Q1
* CANADIAN TIRE - QTRLY CONSOLIDATED REVENUE INCREASED $93.5 MILLION, INCLUDING $51.1 MILLION INCREASE IN PETROLEUM REVENUE FROM HIGHER PER LITRE GAS PRICES Source text for Eikon: Further company coverage: | NEWS-MULTISOURCE |
User:Deanfreakinyoung/sandbox
Joanie Loves Chachi is a rock band from Canada that came to life in the mid-nineties. The founding members are Dean Young, Norm Thody and Nathan Langdon. The band experienced a few lineup changes between the 90's and 2019. In November 2019, the band won a Fraser Valley Music Award in the punk category.
History
During the early 2000's Songs from Please Keep Of the Grass and the Self-Titled EP were selected for a Space Channel television series named Alienated (TV series). Shortly after, the band was also featured at Slam City Jam in Vancouver. The band reassembled in 2018 and are releasing a new, full-length record in 2020 labeled My Brother's Karate.
Musical Style
Joanie Loves Chachi considers themselves a rock band, despite winning a Fraser Valley Music Award in the Punk category. Their music genre contains elements that range between rock, alternative, pop, and punk.
Alumni
* Current members
* Dean Young – vocals, guitars (founding member - present, songwriter)
* Norm Thody – bass, backing vocals (founding member - present)
* Barry Higginson – drums, backing vocals (2018–present)
* Jay Slye – guitars (Nov 2019–present)
* Former members
* Nathan Langdon – drums (1992–1996)
* Luke Rogalsky – guitar (1998-2004)
* Aaron 'Boon' Gustavson – bass (2002–2004)
* Mario Nieva – drums (2002–2004)
=References= | WIKI |
User:Crusaderhasybas/sandbox
Ashton Ivan Guevarra Delapena is a 14 year old boy from the Philippines, Who likes to play games, eat, and save up his money. He is currently worth 15 million pesos and owns 20 lots in the Philippines. | WIKI |
Page:Rideout--Beached keels.djvu/97
Rh The air was crisp and chilly; gossamer-films of frost silvered the grass; and round the upper outline of the headland that shut off the south and east, a faint, cold smoke rose in the first warmth of morning. What remained of sky and sea was a dull sepia touched with flakes of pale yellow. Climbing over the fields to the pass, he was aware that some one sat waiting for him on the edge against the sky. He climbed faster. The figure resolved itself into the lean, solid body of Peter, his blue jersey, his heavy rubber boots rolled down below his knees in the fashion of some uncouth cavalier.
"How is he?" called up Archer. "How did it come out?" The blue eyes under the blue-veined forehead looked down gravely, as Peter shook his head. Even through the dirty growth of beard, the lines of his face were hard and old. With fears suddenly full grown. Archer sprang upward and stood before him. Something made him wait for the other to speak. | WIKI |
Rosa 'Princesse de Monaco'
'Princesse de Monaco' (aka 'Princess of Monaco') is a blend hybrid tea rose cultivar bred in France by Marie-Louise Meilland and introduced in 1981. It is dedicated to Princess Grace of Monaco (1929-1982), who was President of Salon de la Rose's Jury in Monaco in 1981. Its parents were two hybrid tea cultivars, 'Ambassador' (Meilland, 1977) x Peace (Meilland, 1935).
Description
Its bush is reaching 80 cm in height (sometimes much more in a favorable situation) with dense, dark green foliage. It shows from June to October large roses (13–14 cm) of undeniable elegance and remarkable delicacy. They are creamy white with wavy petals gently edged with pink carmine. Flowers on long stems are ideal for cut flowers. They perfectly illuminate the flowerbeds of gardens.
This rose needs a sunny exposure and is resistant to -20 °.
There has been a climbing variety of 'Princess of Monaco' since 2014. | WIKI |
Tunable Cyber Defensive Security Mechanisms
Period of Performance: 03/21/2016 - 12/20/2016
$150K
Phase 1 SBIR
Recipient Firm
Aarno Labs LLC
70 Dudley Street Apt 3 Array
Cambridge, MA 02140
Firm POC
Principal Investigator
Abstract
Evaluating security mechanisms is a difficult and manual process. To effectively compare different techniques, security analysts use synthetic benchmarks that are typically comprised of simple test cases or a combination of known vulnerabilities in an attempt to provide coverage for different classes of attacks. As such, security mechanisms adapt their techniques to guarantee good coverage for the synthetic benchmarks but provide little guarantees of their efficacy beyond that. To ensure accurate evaluation and comparison of competing security techniques on real-world programs, we need automated techniques for injecting realistic and verifiable vulnerabilities. We propose to develop a new technique and system for automatically generating and injecting realistic vulnerabilities to real-world applications. Our proposed system uses targeted symbolic execution to discover program paths that could be used to generate vulnerabilities (e.g., integer overflows). The programs paths (i.e., symbolic constraints) are then modified using information from formal methods (e.g.,, using SMT solvers) to generate and inject new code , at the source- or binary-level, that is provably vulnerable (e.g., the system can prove that the generated conditions along a specific program path can generate an overflow). If successful, our proposed system can transform the evaluation of security systems and enable novel pedagogical tools. | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
def test_02_send_email(self):
r = add_smtpserver(identifier="myserver", server="1.2.3.4", tls=False)
self.assertTrue(r > 0)
server = get_smtpserver("myserver")
smtpmock.setdata(response={"recp@example.com": (200, "OK")},
support_tls=False)
r = server.send_email(["recp@example.com"], "Hallo", "Body")
self.assertEqual(r, True)
smtpmock.setdata(response={"recp@example.com": (550,
"Message rejected")},
support_tls=False)
r = server.send_email(["recp@example.com"], "Hallo", "Body")
self.assertEqual(r, False)
# Use TLS
r = add_smtpserver(identifier="myserver", server="1.2.3.4", tls=True)
self.assertTrue(r > 0)
server = get_smtpserver("myserver")
smtpmock.setdata(response={"recp@example.com": (200, "OK")},
support_tls=True)
r = server.send_email(["recp@example.com"], "Hallo", "Body")
self.assertEqual(r, True)
# If we configure TLS but the server does not support this, we raise
# an error
smtpmock.setdata(response={"recp@example.com": (200, "OK")},
support_tls=False)
self.assertRaises(SMTPException, server.send_email,
["recp@example.com"], "Hallo", "Body")
delete_smtpserver("myserver")
def test_01_enqueue_email(self):
r = add_smtpserver(identifier="myserver", server="1.2.3.4", tls=False, enqueue_job=True)
self.assertTrue(r > 0)
server = get_smtpserver("myserver")
smtpmock.setdata(response={"recp@example.com": (200, "OK")},
support_tls=False)
r = server.send_email(["recp@example.com"], "Hallo", "Body")
self.assertEqual(r, True)
queue = get_job_queue()
self.assertEqual(len(queue.enqueued_jobs), 1)
job_name, args, kwargs = queue.enqueued_jobs[0]
self.assertEqual(job_name, "smtpserver.send_email")
self.assertEqual(args[1], ["recp@example.com"])
self.assertEqual(args[2], "Hallo")
self.assertEqual(args[3], "Body")
# send_email returns True, even if the SMTP server will eventually reject the message
smtpmock.setdata(response={"fail@example.com": (550,
"Message rejected")},
support_tls=False)
r = server.send_email(["fail@example.com"], "Hallo", "Body")
self.assertEqual(r, True)
self.assertEqual(len(queue.enqueued_jobs), 2)
job_name, args, kwargs = queue.enqueued_jobs[1]
self.assertEqual(job_name, "smtpserver.send_email")
self.assertEqual(args[1], ["fail@example.com"])
self.assertEqual(args[2], "Hallo")
self.assertEqual(args[3], "Body")
delete_smtpserver("myserver")
def test_02_send_email(self):
r = add_smtpserver(identifier="myserver", server="1.2.3.4")
self.assertTrue(r > 0)
server = get_smtpserver("myserver")
smtpmock.setdata(response={"recp@example.com": (200, "OK")})
r = server.send_email(["recp@example.com"], "Hallo", "Body")
self.assertEqual(r, True)
smtpmock.setdata(response={"recp@example.com": (550,
"Message rejected")})
r = server.send_email(["recp@example.com"], "Hallo", "Body")
self.assertEqual(r, False)
delete_smtpserver("myserver")
def test_22_new_email_config(self):
smtpmock.setdata(response={"pi_tester@privacyidea.org": (200, 'OK')})
transactionid = "123456098717"
# send the email with the new configuration
r = add_smtpserver(identifier="myServer", server="1.2.3.4")
set_privacyidea_config("email.identifier", "myServer")
db_token = Token.query.filter_by(serial=self.serial1).first()
token = EmailTokenClass(db_token)
self.assertTrue(token.check_otp("123456", 1, 10) == -1)
c = token.create_challenge(transactionid)
self.assertTrue(c[0], c)
otp = c[1]
self.assertTrue(c[3].get("state"), transactionid)
# check for the challenges response
r = token.check_challenge_response(passw=otp)
self.assertTrue(r, r)
delete_smtpserver("myServer")
delete_privacyidea_config("email.identifier")
Example #5
0
def delete_server(identifier=None):
"""
This call deletes the specified SMTP server configuration
:param identifier: The unique name of the SMTP server definition
"""
r = delete_smtpserver(identifier)
g.audit_object.log({"success": r > 0, "info": r})
return send_result(r > 0)
def test_01_create_smtpserver(self):
r = add_smtpserver(identifier="myserver", server="1.2.3.4")
self.assertTrue(r > 0)
r = add_smtpserver(identifier="myserver1", server="1.2.3.4")
r = add_smtpserver(identifier="myserver2", server="1.2.3.4")
server_list = get_smtpservers()
self.assertTrue(server_list)
self.assertEqual(len(server_list), 3)
server_list = get_smtpservers(identifier="myserver")
self.assertTrue(server_list[0].config.identifier, "myserver")
self.assertTrue(server_list[0].config.port, 25)
for server in ["myserver", "myserver1", "myserver2"]:
r = delete_smtpserver(server)
self.assertTrue(r > 0)
server_list = get_smtpservers()
self.assertEqual(len(server_list), 0) | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
The Zacks Analyst Blog Highlights: Royal Caribbean Cruises, Marcus, International Speedway and Vail Resorts - Press Releases
For Immediate Release
Chicago, IL - April 30, 2015 - Zacks.com announces the list of stocks featured in the Analyst Blog. Every day the Zacks Equity Research analysts discuss the latest news and events impacting stocks and the financial markets. Stocks recently featured in the blog include the Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.(RCL ), Marcus Corp. ( MCS ), International Speedway Corp. ( ISCA ) and Vail Resorts Inc.(MTN ).
Today, Zacks is promoting its ''Buy'' stock recommendations. Get #1Stock of the Day pick for free .
Here are highlights from Wednesday's Analyst Blog:
Forget Royal Caribbean: Buy These 3 Leisure Stocks Instead
Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.(RCL ) posted mixed first-quarter 2015 results on Apr 20, with earnings surpassing the Zacks Consensus Estimate but revenues lagging the same. Further, the company lowered its earnings guidance for 2015, anticipating the negative impact of the currency translation as a result of a strong dollar to hit its earnings.
The product economics of the cruise business are not great, as geopolitical tensions worldwide are hurting travel and a slowdown in the Chinese economy is affecting the promising prospects in the region. Royal Caribbean's expansion into new markets may not be enough to make up for the headwinds it faces in the profitable older ones, like the Caribbean and some of the European Markets.
Royal Caribbean has seen nothing but downward revisions in analyst estimates over the past month, according to Zacks Research data. This suggests that there may be more trouble down the road, as shares of this Zacks Rank #4 (Sell) company declined almost 3.7% since its first-quarter release.
Investors, however, need not despair due to the pessimism surrounding Royal Caribbean. There are plenty of Leisure stocks with better prospects on the horizon, as is indicated by the significantly stronger Zacks Ranks these carry.
3 Alternative Stocks
The leisure industry comprises cruises, gaming, lodging, marinas, sports facilities and teams, travel and tourism, movie theaters and entertainment companies. The industry is largely driven by consumer sentiment and dependent on broad macroeconomic factors, since recreation is largely discretionary.
The leisure industry performed comparatively well in 2014 as well as so far in 2015 owing to better job prospects, stepped-up economic activities and better-than-expected GDP numbers, rising wages, cheaper fuel, improved business and renewed optimism backed by the housing recovery.
We screened the following 3 stocks, based on a solid Zacks Rank, that have excellent prospects:
Based in Milwaukee, WI, The Marcus Corp. ( MCS ) has a Zacks Rank #2 (Buy). The company operates hotels and movie theatres in the U.S.
The company's earnings have topped the Zacks Consensus Estimate three times in the past year, twice by margins of more than 35%. Strong performance in the theatre division as well as its lodging segment and continued RevPAR improvement boosted results. The company's shares have risen 13.2% year-to-date and with the optimism surrounding the stock, it might still have some upside left in it.
International Speedway Corp. ( ISCA ), based in Daytona Beach, FL, promotes motorsports themed entertainment activities in the United States. The company's motorsports entertainment facilities promote car, open wheel, sports car, truck, motorcycle and other racing events.
Earnings of this Zacks Rank #1 (Strong Buy) company have surpassed the Zacks Consensus Estimate thrice in the past year, twice by margins of more than 20%. The company's shares have gained 16% year-to-date and with the optimism surrounding the stock, it might still gain some more.
Broomfield, CO-based Vail Resorts Inc.(MTN ) operates mountain resorts and urban ski areas in the U.S. The company operates in three segments: Mountain, Lodging, and Real Estate. The company's bottom line fared better than the Zacks Consensus Estimate in all of the trailing four quarters and carries a Zacks Rank #2.
The company's geographic diversity, which is reflected in its presence in most of the markets of the U.S., should drive revenues in the long term. The company's shares rose 13.2% year-to-date and with the estimates going north, some more improvement might be on the cards.
To Conclude
The outlook for the leisure industry for 2015 remains positive as it focuses on innovative and inspired ways of meeting customers' expectations. However, issues like a slowdown in China, tensions in Ukraine and a struggling Eurozone, especially Greece remain the concerns.
Nevertheless, given the ongoing economic recovery in the U.S., fast infrastructure development in the regions where these companies operate and opportunities in the emerging markets, these leisure stocks are worth investing in the near term.
Today, Zacks is promoting its ''Buy'' stock recommendations. Get #1Stock of the Day pick for free .
About Zacks Equity Research
Zacks Equity Research provides the best of quantitative and qualitative analysis to help investors know what stocks to buy and which to sell for the long-term.
Continuous coverage is provided for a universe of 1,150 publicly traded stocks. Our analysts are organized by industry which gives them keen insights to developments that affect company profits and stock performance. Recommendations and target prices are six-month time horizons.
Zacks "Profit from the Pros" e-mail newsletter provides highlights of the latest analysis from Zacks Equity Research. Subscribe to this free newsletter today .
Want the latest recommendations from Zacks Investment Research? Today, you can download 7 Best Stocks for the Next 30 Days. Click to get this free report
ROYAL CARIBBEAN (RCL): Free Stock Analysis Report
MARCUS CORP (MCS): Free Stock Analysis Report
INTL SPEEDWAY (ISCA): Free Stock Analysis Report
VAIL RESORTS (MTN): Free Stock Analysis Report
To read this article on Zacks.com click here.
The views and opinions expressed herein are the views and opinions of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of Nasdaq, Inc.
The views and opinions expressed herein are the views and opinions of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of Nasdaq, Inc. | NEWS-MULTISOURCE |
Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 124.djvu/1044
124 STAT. 1018 PUBLIC LAW 111–148—MAR. 23, 2010 2013 ........................................................... $7,000,000,000 2014, 2015 and 2016 ................................. $9,000,000,000 2017 and thereafter .................................. $10,000,000,000.’’. (c) EXEMPTION FROM ANNUAL FEE ON HEALTH INSURANCE FOR CERTAIN NONPROFIT ENTITIES.—Section 9010(c)(2) of this Act is amended by striking ‘‘or’’ at the end of subparagraph (A), by striking the period at the end of subparagraph (B) and inserting a comma, and by adding at the end the following new subparagraphs: ‘‘(C) any entity— ‘‘(i)(I) which is incorporated as, is a wholly owned subsidiary of, or is a wholly owned affiliate of, a non- profit corporation under a State law, or ‘‘(II) which is described in section 501(c)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and the activities of which consist of providing commercial-type insurance (within the meaning of section 501(m) of such Code), ‘‘(ii) the premium rate increases of which are regu- lated by a State authority, ‘‘(iii) which, as of the date of the enactment of this section, acts as the insurer of last resort in the State and is subject to State guarantee issue require- ments, and ‘‘(iv) for which the medical loss ratio (determined in a manner consistent with the determination of such ratio under section 2718(b)(1)(A) of the Public Health Service Act) with respect to the individual insurance market for such entity for the calendar year is not less than 100 percent, ‘‘(D) any entity— ‘‘(i)(I) which is incorporated as a nonprofit corpora- tion under a State law, or ‘‘(II) which is described in section 501(c)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and the activities of which consist of providing commercial-type insurance (within the meaning of section 501(m) of such Code), and ‘‘(ii) for which the medical loss ratio (as so deter- mined)— ‘‘(I) with respect to each of the individual, small group, and large group insurance markets for such entity for the calendar year is not less than 90 percent, and ‘‘(II) with respect to all such markets for such entity for the calendar year is not less than 92 percent, or ‘‘(E) any entity— ‘‘(i) which is a mutual insurance company, ‘‘(ii) which for the period reported on the 2008 Accident and Health Policy Experience Exhibit of the National Association of Insurance Commissioners had— ‘‘(I) a market share of the insured population of a State of at least 40 but not more than 60 percent, and | WIKI |
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Hello there!
I'd love to see more array operation functions such as map/reduce. There are already a few helpful functions there like pop, shift, etc.
I find myself turning pageArrays into arrays, do array_map or similar and create pageArrays again from that data.
For Processwire, it would be really helpful to perform forEach operations more comfortably.
E.g.
<?php
$allTitles = $pages->map(function($page){return $page->title});
// vs traditionally:
$allTitles = [];
foreach($pages as $page) {
array_push($allTitles, $page->title);
}
$pages->reduce would be really helpful too. This would avoid many in-between variables when calculating sums of fields stored in individual pages.
Thank you in advance :)
Best,
Martin
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bernhard 1,313
what about this?
<?php
$allTitles = $yourPageArray->each('title');
// or if it was more complex
$allTitles = $yourPageArray->each(function($page) {
return "{$page->forename} {$page->surname}";
}
you can also add your own methods via hooks:
$wire->addHookMethod('WireArray::test', function($event) {
$arr = $event->object;
$out = [];
foreach($arr as $item) $out[] = 'testing page ' . $item->id;
$event->return = $out;
});
59b6439d01eb4_2017-09-1110_03_51-EditPage_Testhrd-360-neu_Chakaaa!360.hrdiamonds_com.png.c65551ea834c3c4879a354c5125442dc.png
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abdus 596
Here are my generic versions
WireArray::map
wire()->addHookMethod('WireArray::map', function (HookEvent $e) {
$func = $e->arguments(0);
if (!is_callable($func)) throw new WireException('first argument must be a callable function');
$mapped = array_map($func, $e->object->getArray());
$e->return = $mapped;
});
WireArray::reduce
wire()->addHookMethod('WireArray::reduce', function (HookEvent $e) {
$func = $e->arguments(0);
$initial = $e->arguments(1) ?? [];
if (!is_callable($func)) throw new WireException('first argument must be a callable function');
$reduced = array_reduce($e->object->getArray(), $func, $initial);
$e->return = $reduced;
});
WireArray::forEach
wire()->addHookMethod('WireArray::forEach', function (HookEvent $e) {
$func = $e->arguments(0);
if (!is_callable($func)) throw new WireException('first argument must be a callable function');
$foreached = [];
foreach ($e->object as $i => $item) $foreached[] = $func($item, $i);
$e->return = $foreached;
});
Tests
$mapped = $pages->find('id>0, parent=2')->map(function($page) {
return [
'title' => $page->title,
'id' => $page->id
];
});
$reduced = $pages->find('template=post')->reduce(function($carry, $item){
$carry[] = $item->id;
return $carry;
}, []);
$foreached = $pages->find('template=post')->forEach(function($item){
echo $item->id . '<br>';
});
dump($mapped);
dump($reduced);
dump($foreached);
Which outputs
array (4)
0 => array (2)
title => "Pages" (5)
id => 3
1 => array (2)
title => "Setup" (5)
id => 22
2 => array (2)
title => "Modules" (7)
id => 21
3 => array (2)
title => "Access" (6)
id => 28
array (8)
0 => 1024
1 => 1026
2 => 1028
3 => 1031
4 => 1033
5 => 1058
6 => 1062
7 => 1065
1024
1026
1028
1031
1033
1058
1062
1065
array (8)
0 => null
1 => null
2 => null
3 => null
4 => null
5 => null
6 => null
7 => null
29.59ms, 0.06MB
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netcarver 1,877
5 hours ago, Martin Muzatko said:
$pages->reduce would be really helpful too. This would avoid many in-between variables when calculating sums of fields stored in individual pages.
You could also try ersch's PagesSum module for this aspect.
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• By Davidov
Good Day!
I am a beginer of processwire project. Thanks developers for your great work. this CMS is very Good!
I have a question: how get Pageimage object of PageArray from "Page" (PageArray) field type?
I have too tamplates: affiliates and their teachers. The template of affiliates have a field "teachers_list" wich is "Page" (PageArray) type.
When I vaffiliate teachers in a cycle, I can not access the teacher photo object and change its size. I get an error returning: " Fatal error: Call to a member function maxWidth() on null ". When i trying get URL attribute : $teacherItem->teacher_photo->url, i receive message: " Trying to get property of non-object ". But this code works: $teacherItem->teacher_photo["url"]. The print_r function outputs the following information: "ProcessWire \ Pageimage Object ([changes] => Array ([0] => formatted) [hooks] => Array ([Pageimage :: pim2Load] => PageImageManipulator02-> getPageImageManipulator02 () in PageImageManipulator02.module ) [Data] => Array ([basename] => p16.jpg [description] => .... - ..... [tags] => [formatted] => 1 [modified] => 1487079115 [created ] => 1487079115))". my PHP code: foreach ($page->teacher_list as $teacherItem): $out .= " <tr> <td class=\"alignTop\"> /* !!! my truble */ <img src=\"{$teacherItem->teacher_photo->maxWidth(250)->url}\" /> /* !!! my truble */ </td> <td class=\"alignTop\"> <div class=\"teach_style12\"> <strong>$teacherItem->fio</strong><br/> $teacherItem->degree<br/> $teacherItem->headline_detail </div> <div class=\"teach_style9\"> $teacherItem->body </div> </td> </tr>"; endforeach; Please, help me. Where is my error?
• By Michael Steinmann
Hello everyone,
i guess my php knowledge is not good enough to find a solution for the following problem:
I'm building a website where i have projects. Each project has tags like "webdesign, responsive, cms, print, flyer" etc. At the end of a project i want to recommend other projects, which have similar tags. I want to limit the recommendations to three other projects sorted by the hightest amount of same tags.
This is how far i got:
I'm using
<?php $interessantes = $pages->find("tags=$page->tags, id!=$page->id"); ?> to find other projects with the same tags, excluding the page i'm already on.
Then i'm using three foreach-functions to go through the projects i found, the tags they have and compare them with the tags of the project i'm looking at. If i have two identical tags, i count up a variable.
<?php // Projects i have found foreach($interessantes as $interessant): $i = 0; // Tags of the projects i have found foreach($interessant->tags as $tag): // Tags of the project i'm looking at foreach($page->tags as $tagreferenz): if($tag == $tagreferenz): $i++; endif; endforeach; endforeach; endforeach; ?> You can see what it looks like in the screenshot with a bit of HTML. I marked the tags of the current project green and the identical tags of other projects red with the amount of hits below. So in this example i would want to have three projects with three similar tags and get rid of those with only two and one.
I guess i have to put my pages into an array (with the number of hits?), sort them and echo them with "limit=3"? Unfortunately i have no idea how to do this. You probably have an even better/shorter solution. Links to other topics are welcome to and i'll try to get my head around it.
If you need further explanation, i'll try my best.
Best regards
• By beto
I can't add a new value to a custom PageArray field for my user.
However, when I create a new user, I CAN add the new PageArray value:
I need help. Thank you very much.
• By ---
I've got this code to fetch all pages:
/** @var PageArray $pages */ $pages = $this ->wire('pages') ->find(sprintf( 'has_parent!=2,id!=2|7,status<%s', Page::statusTrash )); With this I fetch all pages except admin, but that includes the 404 page as well. Is there a way to exclude pages like the 404 page from the result? Or maybe loop through the result set to check for the pages response code (without curl that is)?
I want to avoid filtering the 404 page by ID if possible.
• By bmacnaughton
I have a situation where a pagearray appears to lose its sort order.
1. template xyzzy.php fetches a pagearray with code similar to:
// in an external include file function get_pages($selector) { $found = wire('pages')->find($selector); wire('log')->save('fubar', count($found)); return $found; } // in the template xyzzy $pa = get_pages($some_selector); $pa->sort('-timestamp'); 2. main.inc is appended to the template. in main.inc an additional file is included, './layouts/xyzzy.php'
3. './layouts/xyzzy.php' then references $pa as such:
<? foreach($pa as $p): ?> // do stuff with $p // log for debugging wire('log')->save('xyzzy', $p->name); <? endforeach ?> 4. The $pa that './xyzzy.php' sees is sorted while the $pa that './layouts/xyzzy.php' sees is NOT sorted. It seems like the PageArray/WireArray got copied at some point but the './layouts/xyzzy.php' file shouldn't have been included until 'main.inc' is appended.
What am I missing? | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
DSpace Community: https://dspace.lboro.ac.uk/2134/81 2017-04-24T23:08:03Z 2017-04-24T23:08:03Z Interlayer vacancy defects in AA-stacked bilayer graphene: Density functional theory predictions Vuong, A. Trevethan, T. Latham, Chris Ewels, C.P. Erbahar, D. Briddon, P.R. Rayson, M.J. Heggie, Malcolm https://dspace.lboro.ac.uk/2134/24791 2017-04-24T13:31:54Z 2017-01-01T00:00:00Z Title: Interlayer vacancy defects in AA-stacked bilayer graphene: Density functional theory predictions Authors: Vuong, A.; Trevethan, T.; Latham, Chris; Ewels, C.P.; Erbahar, D.; Briddon, P.R.; Rayson, M.J.; Heggie, Malcolm Abstract: © 2017 IOP Publishing Ltd.AA-stacked graphite and closely related structures, where carbon atoms are located in registry in adjacent graphene layers, are a feature of graphitic systems including twisted and folded bilayer graphene, and turbostratic graphite. We present the results of ab initio density functional theory calculations performed to investigate the complexes that are formed from the binding of vacancy defects across neighbouring layers in AA-stacked bilayers. As with AB stacking, the carbon atoms surrounding lattice vacancies can form interlayer structures with sp 2 bonding that are lower in energy than in-plane reconstructions. The sp 2 interlayer bonding of adjacent multivacancy defects in registry creates a type of stable sp 2 bonded 'wormhole' or tunnel defect between the layers. We also identify a new class of 'mezzanine' structure characterised by sp 3 interlayer bonding, resembling a prismatic vacancy loop. The V 6 hexavacancy variant, where six sp 3 carbon atoms sit midway between two carbon layers and bond to both, is substantially more stable than any other vacancy aggregate in AA-stacked layers. Our focus is on vacancy generation and aggregation in the absence of extreme temperatures or intense beams. Description: This paper is in closed access until 13th Mar 2018. 2017-01-01T00:00:00Z The Stone-Wales transformation: from fullerenes to graphite, from radiation damage to heat capacity Heggie, Malcolm Haffenden, G.L. Latham, Chris Trevethan, T. https://dspace.lboro.ac.uk/2134/24579 2017-03-30T11:12:34Z 2016-01-01T00:00:00Z Title: The Stone-Wales transformation: from fullerenes to graphite, from radiation damage to heat capacity Authors: Heggie, Malcolm; Haffenden, G.L.; Latham, Chris; Trevethan, T. Abstract: The Stone-Wales (SW) transformation, or carbon-bond rotation, has been fundamental to understanding fullerene growth and stability, and ab initio calculations show it to be a high-energy process. The nature and topology of the fullerene energy landscape shows how the Ih-C60 must be the final product, if SW transformations are fast enough, and various mechanisms for their catalysis have been proposed. We review SW transformations in fullerenes and then discuss the analogous transformation in graphite, where they form the Dienes defect, originally posited to be a transition state in the direct exchange of a bonded atom pair. On the basis of density functional theory calculations in the local density approximation, we propose that non-equilibrium concentrations of the Dienes defect arising from displacing radiation are rapidly healed by point defects and that equilibrium concentrations of Dienes defects are responsible for the divergent ultra-high-temperature heat capacity of graphite. This article is part of the themed issue Fullerenes: past, present and future, celebrating the 30th anniversary of Buckminster Fullerene. Description: Closed access until 8 August 2017. This article was published in the Philosophical transactions of the Royal Society of London. Series A: Mathematical and physical sciences and the definitive version is available at: http://dx.doi.org/10.1098/rsta.2015.0317 2016-01-01T00:00:00Z Synthesis and stabilisation of novel UV absorbers Yang, Shuqi https://dspace.lboro.ac.uk/2134/24559 2017-04-21T08:04:26Z 2017-01-01T00:00:00Z Title: Synthesis and stabilisation of novel UV absorbers Authors: Yang, Shuqi Description: This Thesis is restricted until 25/03/2018. A Doctoral Thesis. Submitted in partial fulfilment of the requirements for the award of Doctor of Philosophy of Loughborough University. 2017-01-01T00:00:00Z Solubilization of phenols by multimolecular aggregates formed by low molecular weight hyperbranched polyglycidol Olea, Andres F. Acevedo, Betsabe Ossandon, Luis Worrall, David R. https://dspace.lboro.ac.uk/2134/24523 2017-03-24T10:48:39Z 2017-01-01T00:00:00Z Title: Solubilization of phenols by multimolecular aggregates formed by low molecular weight hyperbranched polyglycidol Authors: Olea, Andres F.; Acevedo, Betsabe; Ossandon, Luis; Worrall, David R. Abstract: Hyperbranched polymers have been proposed as potential carriers or host compartments for controlled drug delivery. In this work the solubilization of alkylphenols into aggregates formed by hyperbranched polyglycidol HPG and its ester derivative has been studied. HPG17 was synthesized by ring-opening polymerization of glycidol, and then the ester HPG4-RBr13 has been obtained by reaction of hPG17 with 2-bromo isobutyryl bromide. The critical aggregate concentration CAC and micropolarity of aggregates were determined by using pyrene as fluorescence probe. CAC values obtained are 2.5mM and 0.25mM, for HPG17 and HPG4-RBr13, respectively. Our results indicate that the hydrophobic effect is larger for HPG4-RBr13, and that their aggregates are more hydrophobic, than for HPG17. In addition, their sizes and sizes distribution were determined by DLS.The partition of phenols between the micellar and aqueous phase was studied by using the pseudo-phase model, and the results show that the partition coefficients increases with increasing length of the side alkyl chain, and are larger for HPG4-RBr13 micelles than for HPG17 micelles. Description: This paper is closed access until 16th February 2018. 2017-01-01T00:00:00Z | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Summary
Heart Rhythm. 2015 Mar;12(3):596-603. doi: 10.1016/j.hrthm.2014.12.009. Epub 2014 Dec 10.
Long QT syndrome with compound mutations is associated with a more severe phenotype: a Japanese multicenter study.
Abstract:
BACKGROUND: Long QT syndrome (LQTS) can be caused by mutations in the cardiac ion channels. Compound mutations occur at a frequency of 4% to 11% among genotyped LQTS cases.
OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this study was to determine the clinical characteristics and manner of onset of cardiac events in Japanese patients with LQTS and compound mutations.
METHODS: Six hundred three genotyped LQTS patients (310 probands and 293 family members) were divided into two groups: those with a single mutation (n = 568) and those with two mutations (n = 35). Clinical phenotypes were compared between the two groups.
RESULTS: Of 310 genotyped probands, 26 (8.4%) had two mutations in the same or different LQTS-related genes (compound mutations). Among the 603 LQTS patients, compound mutation carriers had significantly longer QTc interval (510 ± 56 ms vs 478± 53 ms, P = .001) and younger age at onset of cardiac events (10 ± 8 years vs 18 ± 16 years, P = .043) than did single mutation carriers. The incidence rate of cardiac events before age 40 years and use of beta-blocker therapy among compound mutation carriers also were different than in single mutation carriers. Subgroup analysis showed more cardiac events in LQTS type 1 (LQT1) and type 2 (LQT2) compound mutations compared to single LQT1 and LQT2 mutations.
CONCLUSION: Compound mutation carriers are associated with a more severe phenotype than single mutation carriers.
日本語要旨:
KCNJ2の遺伝子変異を有する Andersen-Tawil 症候群の患者の心室性不整脈をフレカナイドが安全に抑えることが明らかとなった。
PMID: 25496985
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読者です 読者をやめる 読者になる 読者になる
kanetaiの二次記憶装置
プログラミングに関するやってみた、調べた系のものをQitaに移して、それ以外をはてブでやる運用にしようと思います。http://qiita.com/kanetai
全点対間最短路(all-pairs shortest-path)
リポジトリ
計算結果（最短距離とバックポインタ）
最短経路はbuildPath()で復元。
/** Results of All-Pairs Shortest Path (APSP) Algorithm */
public static class APSPResult{
private int[][] dist; // dist[d]:= shortest path to d
private int[][] prev; // back pointers
private boolean hasNegativeCycle;
public APSPResult(int[][] dist, int[][] prev, boolean hasNegativeCycle){ set(dist, prev, hasNegativeCycle); }
final private void set(int[][] dist, int[][] prev, boolean hasNegativeCycle){ this.dist = dist; this.prev = prev; this.hasNegativeCycle = hasNegativeCycle; }
final public int getDist(int i, int j){ return dist[i][j]; }
final public int getPrev(int i, int j){ return prev[i][j]; }
final public boolean isNegativeCycle(){ return hasNegativeCycle; }
/**
* builds the shortest path from results of All-Pairs Shortest Path (APSP) Algorithm<br>
* @param s source node
* @param d destination node
* @return the shortest path from s to d
*/
public List<Integer> buildPath(int s, int d){
LinkedList<Integer> path = new LinkedList<Integer>();
if(dist[s][d] < INF) for(int u = d; u >= 0; u = prev[s][u]) path.addFirst(u);
return path;
}
}
Floyd-Warshall法(Floyd-Warshall algorithm)
簡単、お手軽、 O(|V|^3)。負の辺があってもおk。
距離(隣接)行列の対角成分は0で初期化するのを忘れないようにする。
ループの順番を間違えないようにする(k,i,j)。
負の閉路がある \rightarrow \exists i:dist(i,i) < 0
/**
* Gets all-pairs shortest distances and back pointers for building a shortest path
* via Floyd-Warshall algorithm(O(|V|^3)).<br>
* @param G adjacency matrix(|V|×|V|) (※edge weights can be negative)
* @return APSPResult
*/
public static APSPResult FloydWarshall(int[][] G){
int n = G.length;
int[][] prev = new int[n][n], dist = new int[n][n];
for(int i = 0; i < n; ++i){
System.arraycopy(G[i], 0, dist[i], 0, n);
dist[i][i] = 0;
for(int j = 0; j < n; ++j) prev[i][j] = (G[i][j] != INF ? i : -1);
}
for(int k = 0; k < n; ++k){
for(int i = 0; i < n; ++i){
if(dist[i][k] >= INF) continue;
for(int j = 0; j < n; ++j){
int newDist = dist[i][k] + dist[k][j];
if(dist[i][j] > newDist){
dist[i][j] = newDist;
prev[i][j] = prev[k][j];
}
}
}
}
boolean hasNegativeCycle = false;
for(int i = 0; i < n; ++i) if(dist[i][i] < 0){ hasNegativeCycle = true; break; }
return new APSPResult(dist, prev, hasNegativeCycle);
}
Jhonson法(Jhonson's algorithm)
O(|V|^2+|V||E|\log |V|)で全点対間最短距離を求める。こっちも負辺があってもおk。
密グラフなら O(|V|^3\log |V|)になるので、Floyd-Warshall法の方が良い。
• 前処理 O(|V||E|)
グラフ G(V, E)に超頂点 s'を追加したグラフ G'(V\cup \{s'\}, E\cup \{ (s',v)| v\in V \})を作り、 G'に対して、 s'を始点とする単一始点最短路距離 h(v\in V)をBellman-Ford法で求める。
• 中間処理 O(|V||E|\log |V|)
辺の重み weight(i,j)に対し、 weight'(i,j) = weight(i,j) + h(i) - h(j)でバイアスをかけて、Dijkstra法で全点対間最短距離 dist'(s,d)を求める。
• 後処理 O(|V|^2)
バイアスをかけた分を元に戻す。 dist(s,d) = dist'(s,d) -(h(s) - h(d))
前処理は要するに、 dist(v\in V)=0と初期化してBellman-Ford法を使うということ。
/**
* Gets all-pairs shortest distances and back pointers for building a shortest path
* Via Johnson's algorithm(O(|V|^2 + |V||E|log|V|)).<br>
* @param list adjacency list (※edge weights can be negative)
* @return APSPResult
*/
public static APSPResult Johnson(List<List<Edge>> list){
int n = list.size();
int[] h = new int[n]; Arrays.fill(h, 0);
//Via Bellman-Ford, detect negative cycle and bias(w'(i,j) = w(i,j) + h(i) - h(j))
boolean hasNegativeCycle = false, updated = true;
for(int k = 1; k <= n && updated; ++k){
hasNegativeCycle = (k==n);
updated = false;
for(int i = 0; i < n; ++i){
for(Edge e: list.get(i)){
int newDist = h[e.s] + e.w;
if(h[e.d] > newDist){
h[e.d] = newDist;
updated = true;
if(hasNegativeCycle) return new APSPResult(null, null, true);
}
}
}
}
//Dijkstra
int[][] dist = new int[n][n], prev = new int[n][n];
for(int i = 0; i < n; ++i){ Arrays.fill(dist[i], INF); Arrays.fill(prev[i], -1); }
for(int s = 0; s < n; ++s){
PriorityQueue<Edge> q = new PriorityQueue<Edge>(n*n);
dist[s][s] = 0;
q.add(new Edge(-1, s, 0));
while(!q.isEmpty()){
Edge p = q.poll();
int v = p.d;
if(prev[s][v] != -1) continue;
prev[s][v] = p.s;
for(final Edge u: list.get(v)){
int newDist = dist[s][v] + u.w + (h[u.s] - h[u.d]); //h[u.s] - h[u.d]: bias
if(dist[s][u.d] > newDist){
dist[s][u.d] = newDist;
q.add(new Edge(u.s, u.d, dist[s][u.d]));
}
}
}
for(int d = 0; d < n; ++d) dist[s][d] -= (h[s] - h[d]); //convert into non-biased distances.
}
return new APSPResult(dist, prev, true);
} | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Talk:Blender 3D: Noob to Pro/Aligning Vertices with a Guide Image
This was split from Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro/Modeling_a_Fox_from_Guide_Images
make a prymaid
with versions 2.46 of Blender and later, you just have to select merge at center after the merge vertices step to create a pyramid, the last 3 steps aren't needed.
you can do this easier by making the top vertices closer to each other (SKEY) and then use Remove Double (in editing buttons/Mesh tools tab)
Noob needs context.
As a total Noob just reading the whole book from front to back, I was completely lost when I reached this tutorial. I now think that the "guide image" approach is an advanced technique that uses the "background image" feature in a novel way. (This is really neat, by the way.) However, this is the very first place I found in the whole book that mentions background images.
I feel that the concept of background images and their normal use needed to be explained before we tell users how to use them in an unorthodox manner, and I have done so. However, I'm a Noob, so my change needs to be reviewed. -Arch dude (talk) 08:57, 8 December 2010 (UTC) | WIKI |
Page:Initials and pseudonyms, first series (Cushing).djvu/119
111
GE
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Genesee. Prof. J JE Gilmore, in the New York "Examiner."
Genesee. E. M. Crawford. Cricket notes.
Genevese Traveller, A- Matthew L. Davis, in the London " Times."
Gent, A. Alexander Anderson. Joseph | WIKI |
Page:Yellow Claw 1920.djvu/28
Exel; then, with a woman’s unerring intuition, divined a tragedy, and, in the instant of divination, sought for, and found, the hub of the tragic wheel.
One swift glance she cast at the fur-clad form, prostrate.
The chafing-dish fell from her hand, and the omelette rolled, a grotesque mass, upon the carpet. She swayed, dizzily, raising one hand to her brow, but had recovered herself even as Leroux sprang forward to support her.
“All right, Leroux!” cried Cumberly; “I will take her upstairs again. Wait for me, Exel.”
Exel nodded, lighted his cigar, and sat down in a chair, remote from the writing-table.
“Mira—my wife!” muttered Leroux, standing, looking after Dr. Cumberly and his daughter as they crossed the lobby. “She will report to—my wife.”…
In the outer doorway, Helen Cumberly looked back over her shoulder, and her glance met that of Leroux. Hers was a healing glance and a strengthening glance; it braced him up as nothing else could have done. He turned to Exel.
“For Heaven’s sake, Exel!” he said, evenly, “give me your advice—give me your help; I am going to ’phone for the police.”
Exel looked up with an odd expression.
“I am entirely at your service, Leroux,” he said. | WIKI |
How do I create a single folder for all my games?
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3 years 10 months ago #1 by flizzflobking
First of all, I'm totally new to this, just learned about Reshade yesterday so forgive me if I say something stupid.
So currently to install shaders, I just open setup, select the .exe and API, and select the shaders I want out of the list, and all the files are installed to the folder that the exe is in.
How can I just have all my shaders in just one folder? Also, are the same shaders for different games the same (eg LumaSharpen for PUBG is the same as LumaSharpen for Witcher 3) or are they different (maybe per API)? Secondly, do the .dll files need to be in the .exe's folder or how can I point it to the right path?
I want to basically be able to manually install all my shaders and correct settings if I defrag or something, without setting it up again through the Reshade setup.
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3 years 10 months ago #2 by crosire
Move the reshade-shaders folder to wherever you want it to be and modify the "EffectSearchPaths" and "TextureSearchPaths" of each ReShade installation to point to that new location (Settings tab in the in-game GUI). Yes, shaders are the same for all games.
Presets too can be created anywhere. Simply enter a full path instead of just a name when creating a new one through the GUI.
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3 years 10 months ago #3 by flizzflobking
Replied by flizzflobking on topic How do I create a single folder for all my games?
Does the .dll file have to be in the same folder as the .exe?
Also if I reinstall Windows, do i have to go through the ReShade setup, or can I just drag the files to the right folders?
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3 years 10 months ago - 3 years 10 months ago #4 by FierySwordswoman
Replied by FierySwordswoman on topic How do I create a single folder for all my games?
All ReShade needs is for the .dll to be in the right folder (yes, the .exe one) with the right name.
Reinstalling Windows would almost certainly remove the .dll's, so you'd have to re-add them to all the games again.
If you can get SpecialK's global injector working, that might remove the need to manually install ReShade all the time.
Last edit: 3 years 10 months ago by FierySwordswoman.
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3 years 10 months ago - 3 years 10 months ago #5 by flizzflobking
Replied by flizzflobking on topic How do I create a single folder for all my games?
So if I reinstall, drag the dlls in the folder as the exe and point to the correct shader and preset paths it should work?
How about if there are 2 exes in the folder, how does the dll file know which one it should open with? Or is that what the injector is for
Last edit: 3 years 10 months ago by flizzflobking.
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3 years 10 months ago #6 by crosire
Yes.
It's not the DLL file that knows which EXE it should open with, it's the EXE that knows the DLL file and therefore opens it. ReShade pretends to be the DirectX/OpenGL driver, so that the game loads it instead of the actual one (which ReShade then loads internally).
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3 years 10 months ago - 3 years 10 months ago #7 by flizzflobking
Replied by flizzflobking on topic How do I create a single folder for all my games?
Thanks for all the help, last 3 questions:
1. You said all the shaders are the same, but that is only per API right (so OpenGL shaders are different from Direct10)?
2. Are all the .dll files the same (as in all Direct9 dlls are the same, all Direct10 are the same and all OpenGL are the same, but they are different from each other)
EDIT To clarify, are all the dxgi.dll files the same etc
3. So I can put my files as such: .dll and .ini in the .exe folder, preset and shaders in another folder, and just point the .ini file at the preset and shaders?
Last edit: 3 years 10 months ago by flizzflobking.
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3 years 10 months ago - 3 years 10 months ago #8 by FierySwordswoman
Replied by FierySwordswoman on topic How do I create a single folder for all my games?
1) The shader files are the same regardless of API. ReShade interprets the shader code and automatically turns it into something the various render API's can read.
2) All .dll's are exactly the same with the exception of 32-bit vs 64-bit. They're all either ReShade.dll or ReShade64.dll renamed to suit whatever API the game uses.
So, for your 64-bit (most of your modern) games, all dxgi.dll, opengl32.dll, etc. are basically copies of each other. Same with 32-bit.
3) No and yes. You can point to all the shaders and textures, but I don't think you can do the same with presets. You're going to have *something* in each game folder, anyway, since you unfortunately can't store preprocessor information in a preset.
Last edit: 3 years 10 months ago by FierySwordswoman.
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3 years 10 months ago - 3 years 10 months ago #9 by JBeckman
If you set it up you can keep D3D9.ini and D3D9.dll in the game folder, then the textures, shaders and the .ini for the preset you use can be wherever, for something like SMAA one could set it up as a single preset although the .dll and the .ini would need to be copied per-game of course.
Most of the time though you'd be using multiple shader files and presets on a per-game basis so it's probably either which way how you store the required files though the in-game OSD for ReShade allows for managing a more clean look if desired for the folders containing the shader files and any textures these are reliant upon plus of course the preset ini file or even files since I believe you can set up multiple presets too. :)
EDIT: D3D9.dll and D3D9.ini are of course just examples, DXGI = DirectX 10 and DirectX 11, OpenGL32 well that's OpenGL whether the game is 32 or 64 bit and then D3D9 for DirectX 9
D3D10 and D3D11 works too and depending on the game might work better than DXGI but for most games it appears DXGI works just as well.
(With some exceptions.)
EDIT: Oh and as a fallback ReShade.ini will work in lieu of {DLL}.ini too if I remember things correctly. :)
Last edit: 3 years 10 months ago by JBeckman.
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3 years 10 months ago - 3 years 10 months ago #10 by crosire
3) No and yes. You can point to all the shaders and textures, but I don't think you can do the same with presets. You're going to have *something* in each game folder, anyway, since you unfortunately can't store preprocessor information in a preset.
You can actually. Preprocessor information is stored in the INI beside the DLL in the game directory, so like it was proposed.
Example INI:
[GENERAL]
EffectSearchPaths=C:\My\Path\To\Global\ReShade\Shaders
TextureSearchPaths=C:\My\Path\To\Global\ReShade\Textures
PresetFiles=C:\My\Path\To\Global\ReShade\Preset1.ini,C:\My\Path\To\Global\ReShade\Preset2.ini
CurrentPreset=0
PreprocessorDefinitions=
Last edit: 3 years 10 months ago by crosire.
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3 years 10 months ago - 3 years 10 months ago #11 by Martigen
3) No and yes. You can point to all the shaders and textures, but I don't think you can do the same with presets. You're going to have *something* in each game folder, anyway, since you unfortunately can't store preprocessor information in a preset.
You can actually. Preprocessor information is stored in the INI beside the DLL in the game directory, so like it was proposed.
Example INI:
[GENERAL]
EffectSearchPaths=C:\My\Path\To\Global\ReShade\Shaders
TextureSearchPaths=C:\My\Path\To\Global\ReShade\Textures
PresetFiles=C:\My\Path\To\Global\ReShade\Preset1.ini,C:\My\Path\To\Global\ReShade\Preset2.ini
CurrentPreset=0
PreprocessorDefinitions=
This is what I do -- one folder for Reshade shaders/textures, that every install of Reshade across every game uses. Makes it very easy to add/update shaders in a single place. I simply copy a default INI over with each new game as a starting point, and voila!
Except for one thing: and this the very top of my list of requests for Reshade (in that older thread I made for requests! @crosire <3) -- this means, of course, that all shaders are processed when Reshade loads, even if you only select a handful with any game. An option in settings after 'Performance', say 'Lock & Load!' sets it so that only selected shaders are initialized when Reshade loads. This way best of both worlds: fast Reshade initialization, and One Directory To Rule Them All.
Last edit: 3 years 10 months ago by Martigen.
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393 F. 2d 786
THE UNITED STATES v. THE NORTHERN PAIUTE NATION, ET AL.
App. No. 3-66
Ind. Cl. Comm. Docket No. 87
7 Ind. Cl. Comm. 322
7 Ind. Cl. Comm. 615
16 Ind. Cl. Comm. 215
[Decided April 19, 1968]
Bernard M. Newburg, with whom was Assistant Attorney General Clyde 0. Marts, for appellant.
/. S. Weissbrodt, attorney of record for appellees. Abe W. Weissbrodt and Ruth W. Duhl, of counsel.
Robert W. Barker filed a brief, amicus curiae for The Goshute Tribe And Western Shoshone Identifiable Group of Indians. Wilkinson, Cragwn & Barker and John 8. White of counsel. Nicholas E. Allen, attorney for the Washoe Tribe of the States of Nevada and California, joined in the amicus curiae brief of The Goshute Tribe. George F. Wright of counsel.
Before Cowen, Chief Judge, Laramore, Durpee, Davis, Collins, Skelton and Nichols, Judges.
Nichols, Judge,
delivered tbe opinion of the court:
This case comes to us on cross-appeals from a final judgment of the Indian Claims Commission (hereinafter called the Commission). The matters in dispute concern (1) the timeliness of one of the claims, (2) the right of the Northern Paiute Nation or of any of the tribal or individual appellees to sue on behalf of the Mono group of Northern Paiutes, (3) whether Indian title includes rights to subsurface minerals in lands formerly under Spanish and Mexican sovereignty, (4) the inclusion of mineral enhancement in the valuation of Indian title land, (5) the inclusion of improvements made in or on land before the taking date in the valuation of that land, and (6) the ultimate conclusion of the Commission on the value of the Nevada Paviotso tract. (Hereinafter appellant and cross-appellee will be called Government and the appellees and cross-appellants (petitioners before the Indian Claims Commission) will be called Indians, unless otherwise noted.)
The Indians have asserted Indian title to some 50,000,000 acres of land in Nevada, Oregon, California and Idaho. They allege these lands were taken from them by the United States without their being compensated. The Commission found that although the Northern Paiutes did not exist as a single land-owning entity in aboriginal times, the Snakes, Monos and Paviotsos did exist as three separate aboriginal groups, each holding title to separate tracts or areas, and that the United States had taken their lands from them without compensation. Dates of taking were also found by the Commission. Prior to the valuation hearing, a net settlement of $3,650,000 was reached by the parties for the “Snake tract,” of Oregon, which is no longer in litigation. After the valúation hearing the Commission found in favor of the Indians: as to the “Mono tract” in the net amount of $935,000 and as to the “Paviotso tract” in the net amount of $15,790,000. The Mono tract consists of 2,506,000 acres in California and 612,000 in Nevada. The Paviotso tract consists of 10,899,726 acres in Nevada and 716,000 acres in California. The largest and most valuable part of the famous Comstock Lode, though not all, was located in the Paviotso tract, and that accounts for most of the award for that tract, as will appear.
August 13, 1951, was the last day for filing claims under Section 12 of the Indian Claims Commission Act (60 Stat. 1049). The original petition in this case was filed on December 26, 1950, and it was on behalf of the Northern Paiute Nation and its various bands. It was filed by six named present-day organized tribes and by Walter Voorhees as a member of and representative of the Northern Paiute Nation and all its members. On August 8,1951, a timely amended petition was filed in which 17 more individual Indians joined as petitioners. Again there were designated as petitioners “The Northern Paiute Nation and the Bands Thereof * *
Set forth were a number of causes of action, including claims for the value of certain lands located in Nevada, Idaho, Oregon and California. The petitions alleged the Northern Paiute Nation and its constituent bands had aboriginal title to the lands in issue and that the lands had been taken from them by the United States without payment of any compensation. The amended petition also alleged that the individual petitioners and the Northern Paiute Indians, enrolled as members of the six petitioning reservation organizations, comprised a substantial part of the descendants and members of the Northern Paiute Nation and its various bands, who had held Indian title to the lands in issue. Of the individual Indian petitioners, 17 are clearly Northern Paiutes and 15 are clearly members of one of the six named tribal petitioners. Each of the tribal petitioners sued in its own right, and jointly with the others, both as successors to the claims of the Northern Paiute Nation and to the claims of each and all of its bands and in a representative capacity on behalf of said Nation and the bands thereof; and the named individual Indians sued as members and representatives of all the members of such Nation and the bands thereof.
The claimed territory, as described in the timely amended petition, extended at its southernmost point to the present town of Bishop, California. A hearing was held before the Commission on questions relating solely to the aboriginal title claims. Because of evidence adduced at that hearing showing the claimed lands to extend south from Bishop to a point below Owens Lake in California, the Commission allowed the filing of a newly amended petition (filed April 15, 1957) which, to conform to this evidence, enlarged the Indians’ claim to include the area south of Bishop.
The petition of August 8,1951, had also alleged that the Northern Paiute Nation was divided into 21 aboriginal bands, and these bands were named. Because of evidence received at the title hearing indicating that the list of 21 bands was incomplete, the Commission accepted the amended petition of April 15,1957, with the bare allegation that the Northern Paiute Nation “was divided into various bands.” The bands were not named nor was their number stated.
The Government first argued that the claim for the Mono tract, or at least that part of it which was south of Bishop, was first made in 1957, was therefore untimely and could not be made the basis for any recovery in this action. The Commission was of the opinion that:
* * * petitioners [the Indians] have, by that amended petition [of April 15,1957], done no more than sever the claims not presently at issue [those other than the aboriginal title claims] and better define the territory allegedly used and occupied in aboriginal times by the Northern Paiute Nation so as to conform with the evidence produced at the hearing. Petitioners did not thereby plead any new causes of action. [7 Ind. Cl. Comm. 322, 389]
The Government did admit, however, that though the 1951 petition did not specifically claim an area south of Bishop, nor did it name a band that allegedly occupied the additional land (the Mono tract), its position would be untenable if “the subsequent extension of the claim into these new areas is not a new cause of action.” The Government would also agree with the Commission’s conclusion had the Northern Paiute Nation been the land holding entity. But, it said, because the Commission found the land holding entity to be the Monos or bands constituting the Monos, a group that had not, the Government alleged, instituted any action prior to the expiration of the limitations period, “the argument that the later petition can ‘relate back’ is no longer tenable.”
We have recently dealt with the issue of when a claim can be added by amendment and “relate back” to the original timely petition. See The Snoqualmie Tribe of Indians v. United States, 178 Ct. Cl. 570, 585-89, 372 F. 2d 951, 959-61 (1967). The question to be asked is whether the claim for the entire Mono tract was “presented” before the statute of limitations ran out on August 13, 1951. Id., at 586, 372 F. 2d at 960. Sufficient notice to the Government is the test, Id., at 587 and 588, 372 F. 2d at 960 and 961, with our inquiry focusing “on the notice given by the general fact situation set forth in the original pleading.” Id., at 587, 372 F. 2d at 960 (the “aggregate of operative facts” underlying the claim for relief, Id., at footnote 5) and “the standing of the claimant * * *.”Id., at 589, 372 F. 2d at 961.
* * * the rule of relation back does not extend to amendments that add new parties or causes of action. * * * But [this] simply states a conclusion. Each case must be tested by the “conduct, transaction, or occurrence” standard to determine whether adequate notice has been given. Id., at 588, 372 F. 2d at 961.
Closely intertwined with this issue, and bearing on its “standing of the claimant” aspect, is the Government’s next claim that neither the Northern Paiute Nation nor any of the tribal or individual petitioners is entitled to represent or file claims on behalf of the Mono group. The Government has chosen to treat this as a separate issue and we will do the same. We now state why sufficient notice had been given to the Government.
The original petition did not name the Mono band among those specifically enumerated, nor did the timely amended petition. The original was headed, however:
The Northern Paiute Nation, ex rel. Walter Voorhees; [named tribes] ; each in its own right and each on behalf of the various bands and groups of each of them, and each on behalf of the Northern Paiute Nation and the various bands and groups makmg up the Northern Paiute Nation,
while the timely amended petition was headed:
The Northern Paiute Nation and the bands thereof, ex rel. [named individuals and tribes],
and sought relief for “the claims of the Northern Paiute Nation and claims of each and all the bands of the Northern Paiute Nation.” (Emphasis supplied). The Monos were clearly a Northern Paiute “band.” Therefore, the timely petition did include the Monos as a party to the suit.
The “conduct, transaction, or occurrence” alleged, though at different dates and in different places, was the uncompensated taking of Northern Paiute Nation land in the areas named. This included the Mono tract. The Government cannot now say that these petitions could not have led it to believe it would have to defend against Mono claims. Indeed, the Government believed the opposite, for the writings of its own expert witness, introduced by the Government and relied on by it at the hearing on aboriginal title, showed the Monos of the area claimed to be Northern Paiutes. In addition, in its Proposed Findings of Fact No. 11 before the Commission, the Government identified the Indians embraced within the term Northern Paiute as “those portions of the Mono-Paviotso speaking peoples living east of the Sierra Nevadas * * *. This includes (1) the Indians of Owens Valley, (2) the eastern Monos, (3) some Indians in (a) the Honey Lake area and other portions of Northern California, (b) perhaps the southwest portion of Idaho, and (c) the southeast part of Oregon.” Thus, this case is stronger for the Indians than was &'noqualmie, for there the Government had at all times objected to the introduction of evidence on the dl aim of the “unnamed” party. That the Government was on notice as to the Monos also answers the question of whether the area south of Bishop was timely claimed. The Commission has held in other cases that the extension of claimed boundaries does not set forth a new cause of action which would be barred by the statute of limitations. Pueblo de Zia v. United States, 11 Ind. Cl. Comm. 131, 161-62 (1962), rev’d. on other grounds, 165 Ct. Cl. 501 (1964); Suquamish Tribe v. United States, 5 Ind. Cl. Comm. 140, 160-62 (1957). The Government, though agreeing with this rule, would have us limit it to only those cases where the entity for which the extended land was claimed was identical with that bringing the action. Without commenting on the validity of this limitation and assuming arguendo that the Government is right, the result in this case would be no different, for we have held that “the entity bringing the action” included the Mono band. It is with this latter conclusion that the Government will differ.
The Government next argued that none of the Indians— the Northern Paiute Nation, the named tribes or the named individuals — were entitled under the Indian Claims Commission Act to represent or file claims on behalf of the Mono group. On this point the Commission said:
* * * the Northern Paiute Indians are a clearly defined group of American Indians within the meaning of the term “identifiable group” as used in sections 2 and 10 of the Act and, accordingly, this Commission has jurisdiction to hear and determine the claims brought by members of such groups on behalf of all its members. [7 Ind. Cl. Comm. 322, 388]
% íJí ;ji
The Commission considers it immaterial, for jurisdictional purposes only, that the Northern Paiute Nation may not have been an aboriginal land using entity but may rather have been composed of numerous, separate bands or groups. The fact that it was, at the time the claim was filed, a group of American Indians capable of clear and unmistakable identification brings the “Northern Paiute Nation” within the term “identifiable group” as used in the Act. (Indians of California v. United States, 122 C. Cls. 348). [7 Ind. Cl. Comm. 322, 389]
The Commission then found that the Northern Paiute Nation was not the aboriginal land holding entity. However, since the suit had also been brought for and on behalf of all the land using groups of Northern Paiute Indians, the Commission then asked whether any of those groups were aboriginal land holding groups. It found that:
* * * those Northern Paiutes who were in aboriginal times generally referred to as Monos or Paiute of Owens Valley * * * had exclusively used and occupied in Indian fashion from time immemorial that portion of the claimed territory [put in issue by the Government in this part of the case — the Mono tract]. * * * [7 Ind. Cl. Comm. 322,414]
And, the Mono descendants constitute part of the present-day Northern Paiute Nation, the “identifiable group.” As to the Mono group, the Commission then found that though there was not included in the record testimony of any Northern Paiute who could definitely trace his ancestry to a member of the Mono or Paiutes of Owens Valley group, other evidence of record and documents not included in the record did establish the existence on the date the petition was filed of descendants of the Monos or Paiutes of Owens Valley. We think the procedure and result adopted by the Commission was correct, as was its reliance on our case of Clyde F. Thompson (Indians of California) v. United States, 122 Ct. Cl. 348, cert. denied 344 U.S. 856 (1952).
In Clyde F. Thompson a claim had been filed by individuals “as members of, and as representatives of, and on relation of the Indians of California, Petitioners.” Prior to and at the time the claims presented to the Commission arose, the Indians of California were comprised of a number of tribes, nations, bands and rancherías or villages, with each occupying a definite part of the area in California. The Commission held that this mamier of tribal composition was not enough to make the Indians of California an “identifiable group of American Indians” within the intent and meaning of the Indian Claims Commission Act and that the claim should have been presented by a petition by or on behalf of each tribe or band.
On appeal to this court, we reversed the Commission and held the Indians of California to be an “identifiable group.” In the case before us today, the Northern Paiute Nation, its constituents being separate land owning bands, is as much an “identifiable group” as was the Indians of California group. And, the Indians’ claims herein were presented, in part, on behalf of each band. In the Thompson case we said (at p. 351) :
* * * Congress clearly intended in circumstances such as we have here, to confer upon the Indian Claims Commission jurisdiction to hear and determine claims that might be presented to it by groups of Indians, * * * even though the ancestors of such group existed as separate bands or villages at the time the claim arose. * * *
For the Mono award to be made in this case, the Indians must have shown that there were either living members or descendants of members of the “identifiable group” as a predicate for their claim. The Snoqualmie Tribe of Indians, supra, at 581, 372 F. 2d at 957, and cases cited. Also see Red Lake and Pembina Bands v. United States, 173 Ct. Cl. 928, 355 F. 2d 936 (1965). The Commission, as stated previously, said that on the date the petition was filed there did exist Mono descendants. The descendants of the Mono group are clearly part of the Northern Paiute Nation, the “identifiable group,” as it is constituted today, and on whose behalf, in part, this suit was brought. Though the Commission did not make its statement regarding the existence of descendants a formal finding of fact, there is unrebutted testimony that the tribal petitioners did have, among their members, descendents of the aboriginal inhabitants of the whole area claimed, including the Mono tract, and that among the individual petitioners, 15 of them being members of the tribal petitioners, there might be Mono ancestors. The findings of the Commission reflect that the original Monos were forcibly removed from their tract to the Tejón Reservation in California, but left it later and that most of them returned to their former country, continuing to live in their former maimer
We must stress that what we have just said relates solely to the question of jurisdiction. It may be that after an award is made and submitted to Congress, Congress may wish to legislate further concerning the payment and distribution of the award, “but this should have no bearing upon the question of jurisdiction to hear and determine the claims presented to the Commission.” Clyde F. Thompson, supra, at 359-60. Also see The Snoqualmie Tribe of Indians, supra, at 585, 372 F. 2d at 959.
The nest position of the Government is “that the Indians in territories previously under Spanish and Mexican sovereignty are not entitled to be compensated for minerals which they were not themselves mining when they [the territories] came under the sovereignty of the United States.” Its theory is that Indians in lands ceded by the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, 9 Stat. 922, which included the Northern Pia-utes, were dispossessed of any subsurface rights they might have had by the Spanish monarchs, remained so dispossessed under Mexican rule, and therefore had no mineral interests in these lands when the United States assumed sovereignty in 1848. The Commission did not agree. If the Government is right, the valuation of the Paviotso tract would be but a minor fraction of the award the Commission has made for that tract.
In the recent case of The Lipan Apache Tribe v. United States, 180 Ct. Cl. 487 (1967), we said (at p. 493) :
$ $ $ $ ‡
* * * the law of the prior sovereigns (Spain, Mexico, * * *) accepted aboriginal ownership * * *. “[T]he right of sovereignty over discovered land was always subject to the right of use and occupancy and enjoyment of the land by Indians living on the land.” Sac and Fox Tribe v. United States, supra, [179 Ct. Cl. 8., cert. denied 389 U.S. 900 (1967)]. * * *
In Lipan, however, we did not deal with the question of whether the prior Spanish or Mexican sovereigns specifically intended to extinguish aboriginal Indian rights in subsurface minerals.
In Lipan, Id., at p. 492, we said the following of “extinguishment:”
* * * * *
The correct inquiry is, not whether * * * [the prior sovereign] accorded or granted the Indians any rights, but whether that sovereign, extinguished their pre-exist-ing occupancy rights. Extinguishment can take several forms; it can be effected “by treaty, by the sword, by purchase, by the exercise of complete dominion adverse to the right of occupancy, or otherwise * * United States v. Santa Fe Pac. R.R., supra, 314 U.S. at 347. While the selection of a means is a governmental prerogative, the actual act (or acts) of extinguishment must be plain and unambiguous. In the absence of a “clear and plain indication” in the public records that the sovereign “intended to extinguish * * * the [claimant’s] rights” in their property, Indian title continues. Id., at 353.
# * * ❖ *
The Government has failed to show in this case the required “clear and plain indication” that the prior sovereigns meant to extinguish the Indians’ rights to the subsurface minerals in the lands occupied by them and ceded to the United States under the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. The evidence it has presented to us is, at best, favorable to both parties. That which we next refer to favors the Indians’ position that their mineral rights were not “extinguished.”
Tn the Government’s brief is an excerpt from the Spanish mining law of January 10,1559. It reads:
* * * We reclaim, resume and incorporate in ourself in our crown and patrimony, all the Mines of gold and silver and quicksilver of these our kingdoms, in whatsoever parts and places they may be, and are found * * * we will that the said Mines shall and may henceforth (without any other act of seizin (aprehensión) and possession) belong to our said crown and patrimony * * *.
The Government said this showed the sovereign’s intent to make royal ownership of all minerals, wherever situate, unquestioned. However, a reading of the entire law — some 9 pages — shows us the Government is clearly wrong.
In his introductory statement to the law, His Majesty Don Phillip II stated that the discovery, working and reduction of the Mines in the kingdom would benefit not only the Crown, but also its subjects and native citizens and the public welfare of the kingdom as a whole. He then referred to a law of His Majesty Don Juan I, decreed in 1387, which stated, in part:
* * * notwithstanding that by us and by the kings whom we succeed * * * there have been reserved for us Mines of gold and silver, and of other metals whatsoever, it is our gift that in future all said persons [ecclesiastical persons and the inhabitants and residents of the cities, villas and places of the kingdom] * * * shall be at liberty to search for and examine (catar,) and dig in their said lands and inheritances, the said Mines of gold and silver, and quicksilver and tin, and stones and other metals; and that they may also search and excavate in all other places whatsoever, not causing injury one to another in their searching and excavations, and doing so with the permission of the owner; and all that shall be found and taken out from the said Mines shall be divided as follows: First, that there shall be delivered and paid therefrom to the person who has taken out the mineral, all the expenses which may be incurred in excavating and extracting it; and of that which may remain after deducting said expenses, the third part shall belong to the person who has taken it out, and the other two-thirds to ourself. (Emphasis supplied, except for the word “catar”).
Interpreting this to mean that “all persons are permitted to search for, and dig and work said Mines and metals” and that the apportionment as set forth therein was still to be made, Don Phillip stated that mining had languished for numerous reasons: first, many persons kept the information about Mines a secret so that the advantages from them would flow only to themselves; second, most of the Mines had been granted to noblemen and other persons, causing the whole Kingdom, as respected the Mines, to be divided up and distributed ; third, many of the grants to individuals provided that a license from the grantee would have to be obtained before a mine could be discovered and worked, thus causing people to hold back from discovering and working the mines; fourth, many of the noblemen, “either in order to avoid the expense and labor, or because they do not give it their attention,” had done very little to discover and work the Mines, and the benefit which would accrue to all by the working of the Mines had thereby been impeded; and fifth, because the law of Don Juan I was so ancient, many people were afraid it was no longer applicable. It was to overcome the above difficulties and to enable “the rewards and advantages” of working the Mines to be “effectually secured” that caused Don Phillip II to “reclaim, resume and incorporate” in the crown all the Mines. After “reclaiming” the Mines, Don Phillip II said:
Art. 2. Inasmuch as the reclamation and incorporation of the said Mines in us, and in our royal patrimony, as aforesaid, are not made with the object or purpose that we alone, or others in our name alone, shall search for, discover and worTe such Mines; but as, on the contrary, it is owr intention and will that our subjects and citizens shall participate, and have a part in said Mines, and engage in the discovery and working of them; therefore, by these presents, we give permission and authority to our said subjects, and native citizens, that they may freely, without our license, or the license of any one else, examine, search for, and dig the said Mines of gold and silver * * * and that no person, or persons, shall be at liberty to interpose any impediment or embarrassment, * * *. (Emphasis supplied).
This is not a clear indication that the sovereign dispossessed the Indians of subsurface mineral rights. In Article 5 Don Phillip II further said:
* * * no other person can interfere to try, dig or work, and that within said space and limits the said discoverer alone shall have such right and power, without that he can be impeded or prevented by us, or in our name, or by any other person, * * *
Article 4 was merely a variation of the apportionment scheme promulgated by Don Juan I, showing the law to be a revenue statute. This view finds further support in the law of August 22, 1584, which revoked, annulled and made void the law of January 10, 1559 to the extent it was in opposition to the new law. It was so in opposition mainly as to the Crown’s share in mining profits.
The Government, relying on its reading of the 1559 law, told us it was codified as part of the law of New Spain and reasserted in the Mining Ordinances of 1783 as follows:
Art. 1. Mines are the property of my Boyal Crown, as well by their nature and origin, as by their reunion declared in [the law of Don Phillip II in 1559].
Since our reading of the 1559 law is not tbe same as the Government’s, the recodification of 1783 does not accomplish the same result either. The King additionally said:
Art. 2. Without separating them from my Royal Patrimony, I grant them to my subjects in property (en pro-piedad) and possession, in such manner that they may sell them, exchange them, rent them, donate them, pass them by will, either in the way of inheritance or legacy, or in any other manner alienate the right which in the Mines belongs to them on the same terms on which they themselves possess it, and to persons capable of acquiring it.
Art. 3. Let this grant be understood to be upon two conditions: first, that they shall contribute to my Royal Treasury the prescribed portion of metals; * * *.
Again we see the sovereign promulgating a revenue law. In addition, in a glossary to the Government’s exhibit containing the quoted laws, “en propiedad,” as used in Article 2, is defined as follows:
Propiedad. Dominion, ownership, right of property. Also, landed estate. This term is used to express an exclusive right of property, in contradistinction to the right of use or usufruct. (Emphasis supplied for the body of the definition).
Thus, the sovereign did not do what the Government would say he did: there was no “clear and plain” “extinguishment” of mineral rights of Indians.
Since the Indians’ aboriginal title differed from the titles of the King’s other subjects, which were of feudal origin or by Royal grant, and so more within Royal control, one would expect him to say so if he wanted to dispossess Indians. There were at least twelve separate edicts prohibiting various classes of individuals from working or discovering mines but not one of them referred to the Indians.
On December 19, 1526 and June 19, 1568, the sovereign seems to have formally recognized the Indians’ existing right to subsurface minerals:
It is our grace and will, that all persons, of whatsoever state, condition, rank, or dignity, * * * shall be at liberty to take out (sacar) gold, silver, quicksilver, and other metals, either personally, or by their servants or slaves, from all Mines which they shall discover, or wherever they shall choose or think proper, and to hold them and work them freely, without any kind of impediment, * * * provided that there result no injury to the Indians * * *. (Emphasis supplied, except for the word “sacar”).
5{» •!$ «i»
The Government argued that the following law, promulgated December 17, 1551, April 5, 1563, and March 6, 1575, emphasized that Indians and Spaniards were on a basis of equality with respect to mining and that the law would not have been necessary if the Indians had owned the subsurface rights:
We command that no restriction be placed upon the Indians in discovering, holding and occupying Mines of gold, or silver, or other metals, and in working them the same as the Spaniards may do * * *.
It is our view that the unquoted part of the law shows the Government’s position to be wrong:
* * * and that they may extract the metals for their own profit and for the payment of their taxes; and that no Spaniard or Cacique shall have part or management of any Mines which the Indians shall have discovered, held or worked. (Emphasis supplied, but not to the word “Cacique”).
This again illustrates the function of the mining laws to be revenue raising statutes. In addition, in light of the laws of December 17, 1551, and May 5, 1575, the command that no restriction be placed on the Indians and that they should have sole part or management of their Mines seems to say that the Indians were not to be treated as second-class citizens because of their status as Indians and that their pre-existing subsurface rights were to be recognized.
If Indians discovered minerals on their territories they could mine them, according the monarch only his lawful share of the proceeds. While the Spanish law evidently gave the discoverer of minerals rights as against the surface owner, how that affected Indian title is not clearly spelled out. To treat the laws as taking everything from the Indians and giving nothing, is to impute to the monarch an intent he never stated. While the Government has introduced other documents going to show the effect of Spanish law in the hope of supporting its position, they do not change the opinion we have just expressed. The Government has not “clearly and plainly” shown the Indians’ subsurface mineral rights to have been “extinguished.” Therefore, in 1848, when the United States assumed sovereignty of the lands in issue, the Indians held complete Indian title to them.
The next issue is whether, for compensation purposes, Indian title land includes the value of subsurface minerals.
In The Miami Tribe of Oklahoma v. United States, 146 Ct. Cl. 421, 175 F. Supp. 926 (1959), we said (at p. 449, 175 F. Supp. at 942) :
* * * whether the land to be valued is held by the Indian claimants under recognized title or merely under so-called Indian title, * * * the Supreme Court and this court have held that such land should be valued in the same way. * * *
"What we seek is the fair market value of the lands claimed herein. Id., at 450, 175 F. Supp. at 943. The fair market value of recognized title lands includes the enhancement in the value of the land caused by subsurface minerals. United States v. Shoshone Tribe, 304 U.S. 111, 118 (1938). Therefore, in determining the value of the Indian title lands in the instant case the Commission correctly included the value of subsurface minerals.
We consider next the errors assigned by both sides in the appraisement of the Paviotso tract, assuming that mineral enhancement is not to be excluded.
The Government assigned the Commission’s failure, in determining the value of mineral lands, to allow for the improvements, such as shafts, tunnels, mine machinery and mills which were, the Government said, no part of the “Indian title,” but for which portions they were awarded compensation. Contrary to the Government’s contention, the Commission did not err by refusing to deduct from the valuation of mineral areas the improvements “made by others.”
The record and the findings show that the Government does not now contest that the taking date of the Paviotso Tract was December 31,1862. It is equally uncontested that from the discovery of the Comstock Lode, in spring 1859 to that date, in Virginia City especially, and to some extent elsewhere in the area, the various mining companies incurred large expenditures in digging shafts and tunnels and in installing mine machinery and mills. This indeed brings to mind immediate questions whether the Indian claimants did have their awards enhanced by such improvements, and whether such enhancement was proper? However, it is incumbent on the Government to point out the nature of the error in this part of the determination below, and we hold it has failed to do so.
The Government referred to the miners as “others,” disassociating them from the United States. However, the land involved was part of the public domain which they exploited, not only without interference by the national Government, but under its implied sanction; Del Monte Mining And Milling Co. v. Last Chance Mining And Milling Co., 171 U.S. 55 (1898) ; Sparrow v. Strong, 3 Wall. (70 U.S.) 97, 104 (1865); they were in no sense trespassers. Mining rights were not obtainable by patent until much later. The miners originated a “mining district” in 1859 according to their custom. In 1865 and 1866 the Congress retroactively validated the rules of such districts as evidence of title to mining claims vis-a-vis other miners, 13 Stat. 441, and vis-a-vis the United States, 14 Stat. 43. The territorial legislature had purported to do this earlier. See Sparrow v. Strong, supra, at p. 104. In 1860 United States troops defeated what was seen as an attempt by the Paiutes to drive the miners out of the Virginia City area. By allowing the prosecution of the claim before us, the United States adopts the miners’ acts and assumes responsibility for them, however tortious they may have been in their origin. Shoshone Tribe of Indians v. United States, 299 U.S. 476, 495 (1937).
It would seem to follow that the United States stands in the shoes of the miners with respect to the improvements and is liable to the Indians to just the same extent as if its own engineers had constructed the improvements, but to no greater extent.
The Government cited our decision in Nez Perce Tribe of Indians v. United States, 176 Ct. Cl. 815 (1966), cert. denied 386 U.S. 984 (1967), to the effect that the value of improvements is to be deducted from Indian awards. A glance at that case shows that it has no application here. The Commission therein appraised Indian lands involved in the litigation by reference to sales of similar lands, not so involved. However, the similar lands were to some extent improved and the lands to be appraised were not. Of necessity, the portion of the value of the similar lands attributable to improvements had to be excluded to make their sales in any way a measure of value. Here, the improvements were on the land taken, a totally different situation.
However, there is authority, not cited to us, which shows that the Government’s contention does raise a serious question as to just compensation. In Consolidated Turnpike Co. v. Norfolk & Ocean View Ry. Co., 228 U.S. 596 (1913), the taker before the taking had purchased a right of way and built a railroad on it. Unfortunately, it had failed to settle with a mortgagee and instituted a condemnation proceeding to clear its title. In that proceeding, the mortgagee said: “pay me for the ties and rails of my fine new railroad.” The State courts refused to award anything more than the value of the land unimproved. On writ of error, the mortgagee asked the United States Supreme Court to hold that the State deprived it of property contrary to the 14th Amendment. The Court said (atp. 602) :
$ ‡ $
The rule of the common law, to which the plaintiffs in error refer, that fixtures annexed to realty become a part thereof and subject to existing liens thereon, is one subject to many exceptions. One of these is that applied by the Virginia court, namely, that when a corporation possessing the right of eminent domain enters upon lands necessary for its public purposes, under the deed of a mortgagor in possession, and places permanent improvements thereon in good faith, it may later condemn the interest and title of the mortgagee without being required to pay more than the value of the land without the improvements placed thereon with intent to acquire the entire title. * * *
* * * * *
The highest secondary authorities have considered the case where the taker has made improvements in good faith prior to a taking and indicated that the opinion of the majority of courts is that the condemnee cannot receive the value of the taker’s improvements. Orgel, Valuation Under Eminent Domain (1936) 310 and ff.; 5 Nichols, Eminent Domain (3d Ed. 1952) 224 and ff.
In United States v. Miller, 317 U.S. 369 (1943), the Supreme Court held that a condemnee could not recover any enhancement in the value of his land due to activity on the land by the taker before the taking date. In that case the activity consisted, not of improvements, but merely putting out stakes indicating the land would probably be taken.
It is clear at any rate that valuation as of the taking date is not an invariable rule to be followed even if it produces a result that shocks the conscience of the court.
The most obvious way to resolve these difficulties would have been to find that the taking had occurred at some earlier date than December 31, 1862. The United States, which would appear to have suffered most by the date selected, has not preserved this issue for our review, in the opinion of a majority of the court. In the circumstances of this particular case the Government theory about improvements appears to be a belated attempt to reopen the date of taking issue. Our problem, however, is to determine if the Commission appraised the property correctly, assuming the taking date of the Paviotso Tract was December 31, 1862.
It must be noted that neither party attempted to show separately the value of unimproved land and improvements, offering a simple choice of striking or not striking a portion of value attributable to the improvements.
Experts on both sides constructed what they called a sales index of value for the Virginia City area, by far the most important part. These figures were close together and were given great weight by the Commission. They were weighted composites made up of sales prices for mining rights and transactions in the stock of mining companies at or about the taking date, related to footage on the lode. There were no transactions in fee simple titles because the Government had not parted with its underlying fee. The Government said below, as it said here, that the exclusion of improvements is to be accomplished by subtracting a figure of some $314 million from the sales index of value.
The Commission dealt with this in their opinion. As we understand what they said, they thought that so large a deduction as $3% million was not supported by the evidence, but in any event if the deduction was made, there would be offsetting adjustments that would cancel it out. This appears to be a reasonable interpretation of the facts.
The record shows that at Virginia City, between 1859 and December 31, 1862, there was a great waste of money and effort in digging shafts and tunnels and installing mine machinery and mills. Many of the items actually detracted from the value of the land because they were barren holes producing insufficient marketable ore, or none. Half of the mills installed were surplusage, as the other half could process all of the ore that the area ever produced. Some of the facilities were needlessly grandiose. These errors were due to ignorance about the geology of the Comstock Lode, over-sanguine estimates of its future, inexperience, and the disorganized way in which development was conducted. Consequently, if one could have eliminated the improvements the reduction in value would have been a great deal less than the improvements cost. In the case of the raining company stocks, such an adjustment would have required a corresponding elimination of debt incurred by these companies in constructing the improvements. In such cases the stock might have been worth more if the improvements had never been undertaken. The most remarkable thing about the Government’s contention is that it is willing to allow the hypothetical purchaser of Virginia City, unimproved, the benefit of all the geological knowledge that was attained in the course of making the improvements.
It is agreed by everyone who has studied the history of the Comstock Lode that exploitation would have been far more successful, and many financial disasters avoided, if mining had been conducted on a well managed basis with good geologic advice, and with wasteful duplication of facilities eliminated. The Government’s hypothetical purchaser would appear, therefore, to be one with all the options restored to birrij the wrong exercise of which led so many actual developers to insolvency, but simultaneously he has presented to him gratis the geologic knowledge of the strata that was actually obtained at such a heavy cost.
The Commission concluded that the making of speculative deductions for improvements would have been no help to the Government when the necessary countervailing adjustments were also considered. We think this evaluation is supported by substantial evidence and cannot now be disturbed.
In light of the role of the Government in inducing the Commission to adopt the sales index of value method and the lack of any assignment of error by its side related to this, it is unnecessary to consider now whether this was the soundest method of determining the value of the Virginia City mineral area as of December 31,1862. It does seem apparent that establishing a taking date for Virginia City and the Comstock Lode, three and one-half years after exploitation on a large scale commenced, really let the genie out of the bottle, and for the Commission to have corked it up again in an intellectually satisfactory manner is beyond reasonable expectation. The conceptual difficulties involved when the taker improves the property before the taking date are brilliantly discussed by Orgel, op. oit. supra, and exposition of them by us would be useless. We do not think the Commission was required as a matter of law to deduct $3% million, or any other figure, as the supposed value of improvements, from the value estimated by the sales index method.
It will be noted that the Commission did not formally find the values of mineral areas separately. It fixed a single figure for the entire Paviotso Tract, Nevada portion, including timber, grazing and agricultural areas, and desert. The Government’s argument requires us to consider as a finding the statement in the opinion, not the findings, that a fair value for the Virginia City District, if considered separately, would have been $8.7 to 9.7 million and the subsidiary statements in support of that view. We have, arguendo, so considered these statements.
On behalf of the Indians we confront at the outset strenuously urged and elaborately documented contentions that the findings of tbe Commission are insufficient. One difficulty, however, is that the Indians say nothing to show they face up to the situation that we, if dissatisfied with the scope of the findings, cannot make new ones of our own but must remand the case to the Commission. The Snake or Paiute Indians v. United States, 125 Ct. Cl. 241, 112 F. Supp. 543 (1953). Do they really want a remand even if we are prepared to affirm a substantial award in their favor, of $15,790,-000 after offsets for two tracts in Nevada ? We think a party making the kind of objection the Indians do should make its position clear.
Plaintiffs said the Commission should have valued separately the various mineral areas, as their expert witnesses did. In fact the Commission did this only for the Virginia City-Comstock Lode district, and that only in its opinion, not its findings. It would not have committed reversible error had it accommodated plaintiffs in this regard. We did the job that way in The Tlingit And Haida Indians of Alaska, Et Al. v. United States, 182 Ct. Cl. 130, 389 F. 2d 778 (1968), a case we had under original jurisdiction, not an appeal case. On the other hand, the Commission’s method in The Winnebago Tribe And Nation of Indians v. United States, 16 Ind. Cl. Comm. 81 (1965), aff’d. without opinion 181 Ct. Cl. 1202 (1967), agrees with the one used here. Apparently the trier of fact has an election in the appraisement of large, contiguous areas taken at the same time from the same group or tribe. Obviously there are objections both ways. The value of the sum of the parts may exceed the whole, because, e.g., population, food or transportation problems may be seen as a curb on future development only when the area is viewed as an entirety. On the other hand, the “willing buyer”, a figment at best like the ordinary prudent man, becomes completely unimaginable if he is conceived as buying 10 million acres in order to get a few thousand of mineral lands. When a tract has portions having highest and best uses for mining, grazing, farming, and mere cactus desert, but is valued as a single unit, it has the look of the traditional horse and rabbit stew. Our views stated in Citizen Band of Potawatomi Indians of Oklahoma, Et. Al. v. United States, 179 Ct. Cl. 473 (1967), cert. denied 389 U.S. 1046 and 390 U.S. 957 (1968), were not intended to bar separate evaluation of mineral areas, preliminary to an overall determination, but only a separate award for minerals in the ground. We think a trier of fact who elects either procedure should explain why, as we did in Nez Perce Tribe of Indians v. United States, supra. We do not think the omission to do so here is a defect that necessitates a remand.
The Indians’ other complaint about the findings is that the Commission rejected its expert appraisers’ views, and did not spell out why in detailed findings. In legal appraisement, however, widely divergent opinion testimony is the rule rather than the exception. The trier of fact must decide first, of course, if such testimony is competent and admissible. Before us, no party claims that this case was decided with respect to any issue on inadmissible testimony. The Indians wanted the Commission to take up the reasoning of its appraisers step by step, and either accept each step or show reasons for rejecting it. Having competent testimony before it, the Commission was not restricted to swallowing it whole ■ or rejecting it utterly. It did not have to refute what it did not accept as controlling. It could, and apparently did, •synthesize in its mind the immense record before it, determine to what extent opinion evidence rested on facts, consider and weigh it all, and come up with figures supported by all the evidence, perhaps, though not identified with any of it. The Commission did, however, give us a good deal of enlightening discussion of the value issues, and one cannot read it as a whole without getting a pretty clear idea of how they approached their task. Nor does the Indians’ brief on the remaining issues seem hampered by uncertainty as to what the Commission held.
We now turn to the Indians’ substantive complaints about the evaluations the Commission made. Besides part of Virginia City and the Comstock Lode, the Paviotso Tract also included lesser mineral areas. The Indians constructed sales indexes of value for them also. The two most important, the Esmeralda and Humboldt districts, the Indians showed by that method to be worth $4,689,318 and $7,962,331, respectively. The Commission never found a separate value for these portions, but if, as stated in the opinion, $8.7 to $9.7 million is assignable to Virginia City, out of $15,750,000 for the whole Paviotso Tract in Nevada, it is clear, as it said, that it considered the sales index to show a grossly inflated value for the other areas. The Indians said, if the sales index is so infallible for Virginia City, the Commission should have applied it in an “evenhanded manner” across the board.
As to the Humboldt, the argument answers itself. The Indians’ own mineral experts said that miners and prospectors in the area were misled by surface indications which would not have deceived a competent geologist. They assigned a value on the taking date of but $3,000,000. The Humboldt never amounted, then or later, to anything comparable to the Comstock Lode. A sales index of value for Humboldt of $7,-962,311 compared to $9,779,239 for Virginia City is preposterous on its face, even considering that part of the ■Comstock Lode was outside the Paviotso Tract.
The case of Esmeralda differs only in that the Indians’ sales index there produced a figure approximately agreeing with their value estimate. The Government’s expert witnesses made indexes based on stock sales that were markedly lower. However, the Commission noted that here, too, prices were extravagant in relation to the real values. Here the Indians’ index was arrived at by extrapolating from the transactions of a few companies in a manner that is difficult to follow and the Commission considered to be dubious. It would seem that the record, including that submitted by the Government, would furnish the support of “substantial evidence” for a wide range of values. The Indians said that stock prices and values suffered from litigation, inefficiency, mismanagement, and poor mining and milling practices. This may have been so, but it was for the Commission to evaluate the impact these conditions might have had. It is significant that the Indians’ same experts who appraised the Virginia City district at over twice the sales index figure appraised Esmeralda approximately at the sales index! They must, therefore, have perceived a difference in the two districts justifying an “evenbanded” appraiser in treating them as different, as the Commission did.
The Commission’s use of the sales index in evaluating the Virginia City district did not establish a rule of law that they had to use the index in the same fashion everywhere. They had before them opinion evidence on other factual bases. Each district was a separate problem requiring a separate solution.
The Commission, as we have several times stated, would have valued the portion of the Comstock Lode — Virginia City district that was within the tract, at $8.7 to 9.7 million, if it were to be valued separately. The Indians assigned it $23 million, and it is interesting to see how, as it was more than twice their own computed “sales index.”
The two mineral experts for the Indians estimated 3,859,000 tons of ore at reachable levels in the Comstock Lode and within the tract, on the basis of what was known in 1862. This contrasts with 2,893,762 tons actually produced there up to 1882, when the lode was about exhausted. The difference they credited largely to “mill losses” avoidable by efficient operation. They valued the ore at $75 per ton, with a gross value of $289,440,000, and a “gross recoverable value” of $212,256,000. The cost of production at an estimated $25 per ton was $96,480,000, and the total operating profit would have been $115,776,000. This was all on the basis of a postulated unified operation, obtaining greater production at far lower cost than the actual inefficient small separate operations could possibly have done. The figure of $23,000,000, represents a payment of twenty percent of the anticipated profit to the proprietor of the soil, the other eighty percent of course representing the share belonging to the party furnishing capital, know how, and access to markets.
The failure of the “sales index of value” to support the $23,000,000 figure was attributed to the fact that the actual sales were depressed by the poor profit expectations due to high production cost and a low recovery ratio, both reflecting the inefficient division of ownership and exploitation of the lode among so many hands. It is clear, therefore, that the assumption of a single “willing buyer” purchasing the entire Comstock Lode, or at least all of it in the Paviotso Tract, was basic to the $23,000,000 apppraisement, the keystone of the arch.
The rules of the mining district, as we have seen later validated by the Congress and made the basis of title to mining claims, provided that no claim should exceed 200 feet square. The prospectors were as truly rugged individualists as we have ever had in this country. It was clearly their intent to discourage monopoly although, of course, the claims of several prospectors could be combined by purchase to make possible a viable mine. That there was no actual monopoly in exploiting the Comstock Lode was no accident but flowed directly from their laws. The assumption by the Indians herein of a monopolistic development, is something like an appraisal of a vacant city lot, which seeks to substantiate a high value on the basis of an imposing hypothetical building in violation of the applicable zoning law. Orgel, op. cit., supra, at pp. 105-110.
There is nothing in the Indians’ appraisal report to show any effort to discover whether in 1862 any person (or corporation) existed in the United States who could write a check for $23,000,000 just for the mining rights, without starting on the other capital investments requisite to development. If there is a tendency in such cases as this to ignore a lack of persuasive verisimilitude in the portrait of the supposititious “willing buyer”, still there is precedent for supposing that if he buys a vast tract, at least he will expect some discount, on a per unit basis, because of the magnitude of his purchase. Nez Perce Tribe v. United States, supra. The Indians’ figures make no allowance for this. Their “willing buyer” grandly ignores the probable lack of other buyers, such as normally by their competition drive up the price of real estate, and in his generosity disregards the fact that the Indians, if they do not sell to him, will have the tract on their hands for a century, in all likelihood, or else will have to sell to the inefficient small developers. His calculation of what he will pay is based entirely on what he considers a reasonable cut from his anticipated profit, and he takes no notice of the going prices for claims such as he is to buy. It is regrettable that such eleemosynary characters were not common in the West as it actually was.
The “willing buyer” can see that the inefficiency of the existing operation, its high costs and low rate of recovery, are due to causes his intended monopoly will eliminate. As the latter is entirely a paper project, the offsetting “bugs” a less sanguine investor might expect in it have no chance to disclose themselves. We all know, of course, that monopoly and bureaucracy are not always more efficient than individualism and free enterprise.
We agree with, and need not repeat, the reasons the Commission put forward for not appraising by this method. The Commission admitted this scheme in evidence nevertheless and considered it. It derived enlightenment from it, no doubt, as it said. The Indians would have us hold that the Commission was compelled as a matter of law to swallow it whole, or that its contrary findings are not supported by substantial evidence. In other words, that the Indians’ own “sales index of value” is not substantial evidence. Such contentions, stated in those terms, as we would have to do, afford their own answers and no others are necessary. The Government cited authority that schemes of this kind are not even admissible in evidence. In view of our decision in Tlmgit And Eaida, supra, that view would seem no longer tenable in this court. It remains true, however, that an evaluating body which has admitted opinion evidence of value of various sorts, based on different facts and arriving-at conclusions by different routes, is not bound by it just because it has been admitted. The tribunal must give weight to the evidence in inverse ratio to the amount of speculation and unfounded assumption it perceives to form a part of it.. Though the “sales index of value” may have been depressed by the inefficiency of the miners which a single operation could eliminate, on the other hand it was inflated by the unfounded optimism which, as the Commission found, was rampant at Virginia City too, at or about the taking date. It was not likely that a hypothetical single operator with $23,000,000 to spend would be more reckless than the actual speculators whose deals in composite made up the “sales index of value.” The Commission gave us a fine quote as to this, [16 Ind. Cl. Comm. 215, 331, 332] taken from Eliot Lord’s superb Comstock Mining And Miners, which wasoriginally published in 1883, and based on interviews with many participants in Comstock operations, who were then still living, as well as extensive search of records. A1959 edition was admitted in evidence as Defendant’s Exhibit G-27, and Petitioner’s Exhibit G-22. That is, both sides offered it. The quote begins at p. 125 and with supporting footnote reads:
* * *. Men walked the streets of Virginia City as if pacing the roof of a fathomless treasure house, and their heads were constantly in the clouds. They saw a network of silver beneath their feet and the fine strands widening into solid wedges of ore. The eyes of the soberest minded even were dazzled by the vision, and the fancy of the imaginative ran wild. No metaphor can-exaggerate the prevailing delirium. It would appear that a silver mist enveloped the slopes of the Sun Peak and men moved and breathed in its unnatural atmosphere. Drunk with the vapor, all prudent considerations were laughed to scorn. Timid suggestions of the utility of thrift and the possibility of an approaching exhaustion of the ore deposits were unheeded or unheard. Every large stockholder in a productive mine counted himself' a nabob and scattered his money broadcast like a prince bestowing largesses. The conception of the Brazilian spendthrift in Der Seekadet is scarcely a burlesque-of the Washoe production. One fits his doors with handles of solid silver and buys a library like a ledge, by the foot; another fills his water-tank with champagne to-enliven the guests at a wedding. * * *
*****
These are the people whose purchases and sales of mining-rights and stock in mining companies made a composite value less than half the figure the Indians claim. The Commission: need have said no more, and was not required to go through the assumptions and predicates of the Indians’ $23,000,000-figure, step by step, acquiescing in or refuting each one. Clearly its rejection was based on substantial evidence.
Accordingly the decisions of the Indian Claims Commission under review are affirmed and the appeals taken by both sides are dismissed.
Affirmed.
Nichols, Judge:
Having stated the unanimous views of the court respecting the issues the parties have argued before us, I deem it appropriate to add certain comments on my account only. They are not in conflict with the opinion prepared for the court, and in a way tend to reinforce the result it reaches. They relate entirely to the date of taking of the Nevada portion of the Paviotso Tract, and everything stated is to be deemed applicable only to that.
The Commission found that the above tract was taken on December 31, 1862 (Finding 30, 7 Ind. Cl. Com. 616, 617). The key importance of the date chosen will be apparent from consideration of the technique of appraisal the Commission used and its application to the facts. It valued in its findings the tract as a whole at $15,750,000 but made it clear in its opinion that $8.7 to $9.7 millions represented the mineralized area of the Virginia City district only. As to that, the method of appraisement is highly contemporary to the taking date, being based as a starting point on sales of mining rights and stock in mining companies in the district at or about the valuation date, with possible upward and downward adjustments mostly rejected. If the Commission had selected the ■date of original discovery of the Comstock Lode, 1859, it would have had to consider sales of their rights by the original discoverers at relatively trifling figures. On the other hand, 1865 was for the Comstock a period of forced liquidations, with many investors wiped out. It is clear, therefore, that December 31, 1862 is a more fortunate selection from the point of view of the Indians than many other dates would have been. I do not conceive that the limits of our appellate function, in light of the valuation issues tendered by appel-lee, bar us from considering the finding which, by the Commission’s valuation technique, more than any other controls the amount of the award. How did they pick that date ?
There was no trial on the issue. The parties jointly suggested the year 1862, and submitted in support thereof a historical recital which the Commission picked up and used' verbatim as its Finding 30.
Finding 30 recites that in 1859 the Indian Agent and the-Superintendent for Indian Affairs for the territory commenced to plan the removal of Indians to two named tracts* they had selected and recommended to the Secretary of the-Interior; that hostilities with the Indians broke out but ended in a truce in August, 1860, at which time a public notice was posted forbidding trespass on the selected tracts; that councils were held in 1861 and 1862 to induce the-Indians to settle on the reservations. “By the end of 1862,. many of the Indians had expressed a desire to remain at peace, provided a reservation be set apart for their permanent home. On December 31, 1862, the Pyramid Lake and Walker Rimer reservations had come into operation and had been accepted by a substantial number of Indians.” (Emphasis supplied). In 1864 and 1865 these reservations were surveyed and in 1874 were established by Executive Orders as reservations for our Indians.
Nothing is said about any force being used on the Indians to compel them to move to the reservations, nor did they relinquish by contract or treaty, formally or informally,, whatever ownership they had in lands outside the reservations. No formal act of extinguishment of title is recited, from that day to this.
The Commission may have had in mind that the tract was-not taken all at once, and have viewed the chosen date as an average. The Creek Nation v. United States, 302 U.S. 620 (1938). However, in that case the selection of the different dates to merge into the average rests on the premise that takings according to established legal principles did occur on-the dates averaged.
These findings fail to show that a taking occurred on December 31,1862, or for that matter, on any other date. The-record shows that takings did occur, but at different times and by force of different circumstances.
The record before the Commission and its findings reflect that there was sporadic extraction of gold from 1850, in the Paviotso Tract, Nevada portion. However, it was a hard living at best, and less successful as time went on, so that the gold seekers (one cannot call them miners), who had dropped out from among the westward migrants to California, mostly drifted along. In the spring of 1859 came the dramatic discovery of the Comstock Lode with its wealth of gold and silver ore. The remaining whites located claims all over the 'hills. They organized a “mining district” according to California precedents, with rules for the staking and recording ■of claims, and how much actual working was required to keep the discover’s rights alive. When word reached Sacramento -and San Francisco, the tide of population reversed its flow; the prostitutes, the faro dealers, the bad men, and the honest prospectors all flowed back East through the passes of the Sierras.
As early as 1858 the Indians had been reported to be in a •suffering and destitute condition. This was attributed to the invasion of the Indians’ hunting grounds by pioneers who had “reduce [d] nature’s wilds to the dominion of the white man.” No doubt the added white population made this bad .situation worse.
What was the United States Government doing? Nothing. These lands were supposed to be public domain, acquired by the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. In 1860 the Congress debated measures to require licensing of mining and royalty payments, but nothing was enacted. There were never any patents or deeds to the Comstock Lode.
In 1861, at the miners’ behest, the Congress split the territory of Utah, as it then was, into two, the western portion becoming Nevada. This was mainly to establish law and order in the mining camp of Virginia City, and to provide a territorial judiciary which would adjudicate the innumerable lawsuits between the mining companies. The titles of these mining companies derived from, and only from, the stakes put out by half-legendary prospectors, and recordings, mostly doctored, kept for the miners by a local blacksmith. In 1865 the -Congress enacted that the rules of the mining district should be evidence of title in disputes of the miners vis-a-vis one another, 18 Stat. 441, and in 1866 it made their claims valid as against the United States, 14 Stat. 43.
In 1865, in Sparrow v. Strong, supra, an ejectment action between two mining companies, reached the United States Supreme Court on writ of error to the Territorial Court. It had been brought before the above enactments, and they were not considered as applicable. Defendant urged that the minimum jurisdictional amount of $2,000 was not at issue because the dispute was between two groups of trespassers on the public domain, neither of which could possibly have any property right in the land. The Court answered (at p. 104) :
* # * %
* * *. The Territory, of which Nevada is part, was acquired by treaty. Eights and titles, acquired under ceding governments, remain unimpaired under our government. We cannot know judicially, therefore, that the right and title in controversy was not so acquired. If it was, it certainly may be capable of being valued in money.
But if this were otherwise, we do know that in the act organizing the Territory of Nevada there is no clause annulling grants or claims to land, while large legislative powers are conferred by the Territorial legislature, limited only, as to lands, by the prohibition of interference with the primary disposal of the soil by the United States, and of unequal taxation in certain cases. We know, also, that the Territorial legislature has recognized by statute the validity and binding force of the rules, regulations, and customs of the mining districts. And we cannot shut our eyes to the public history, which informs us that under this legislation, and not only without interference by the national government, but under its implied sanction, vast mining interests have grown up, employing many millions of capital, and contributing largely to the prosperity and improvement of the whole country.
We cannot dismiss this writ of error, therefore, on the ground that a controversy concerning the possessory right to a mining claim, existing under the express sanction of the Territorial legislature and the implied sanction of the national government, does not relate to a subject-matter capable of being valued in money.
* ‡ $
In Del Monte Mining And Milling Co. v. Last Chance Mining And Milling Co., supra, the Court reviewed the history of mining claims in the public domain. At p. 62 it cited and quoted from Sparrow v. Strong, so that case settled the nature of such claims prior to 1866. See also cases cited therein.
It is, therefore, clear that from 1859 on, the exploitation of the Comstock Lode and elsewhere on the public domain by the miners was not tortious and they were not squatters or trespassers, as the court assumed the miners were in Tlingit And Haida Indians of Alaska v. United States, supra.
What of our Indians ? We have already mentioned the invasion of their hunting grounds. In the spring of 1860 the local Paiutes, previously peaceful, took umbrage because two of their women had been kidnapped by white traders. They killed the offending traders and burned their trading post. Later history viewed this act as a legitimate reprisal by frontier standards, but Virginia City saw it as an Indian atrocity. Miners organized themselves as a posse to the number of 100 or more and set forth on a punitive expedition. This was soon proved to be rash indeed. A force of several hundred Paiute braves intercepted them, and after a flag of truce was fired upon, cut off the posse and utterly destroyed it. Half its number lost their lives. Virginia City then frantically sought to fortify itself, and telegraphed for help to California. A force came over the Sierras to the rescue, part Army regulars, part militia, and part volunteers for the fight. They offered battle to the Paiutes, and inflicted a sharp defeat upon them. The Paiute survivors saved their lives by fleeing to inaccessible places, and these Paiutes never made trouble again, ultimately withdrawing into the reservations as the Commission has found.
It is not clear whether the Paiutes intended to terminate mining operations at Virginia City and reassert their dominion over that portion of their heritage. It is, however, evident that Virginia City thought that was their intention, and the intervention of United States troops, including regulars, was to prevent it from being carried out. It is likewise clear, under the uncontested findings in this case, that the Paiutes were at that time the true holders of aboriginal title to the Comstock Lode and the whole Virginia City mining area, .so far as they were in the Paviotso Tract, and if they had driven the miners out, they would only have been repossessing their own.
In Lipan, Apache Tribe v. United States, supra, we held that it would constitute a taking if United States troops drove an Indian tribe off their property at the behest of third parties and for their benefit. I do not see any significant difference if, as here, the third parties have seized the property by themselves and the intervention of the United States forces was only afterwards to maintain a possession that, but for them, would have been rightfully terminated. Here, however, this brief military campaign is but one of the circumstances that show the Government as having adopted and ratified the seizure by the miners of the Virginia City and Comstock Lode areas. The others are: the considered and informed refusal of the Congress to intervene; the establishment of a separate territorial government for Nevada, at the miners’ behest; the establishment of a judiciary to adjudicate disputes between miners, as to their ownership of the lode; and the determination of the Supreme Court that the miners were not mere trespassers on the public domain. Apart from the litigation between miners, with which the Indians were not concerned, the practical effects were the same as if the Government had issued patents to the miners in 1859, and I would hold the legal effects were the same also. The United States effectively protected the miners against interference from any source, except their own number, until the Comstock Lode was depleted by them, and the issues had become for them academic.
It is irrelevant to consider exactly when the trespass by the miners became, by adoption and ratification, a taking by the United States, because, once that step was taken, it related back to the first move, even one originally tortious. Shoshone Tribe v. United States, supra. The first discovery of the lode in 1859 was the immediate cause of a rush of white population into Paiute territory. The aviation easement cases afford a parallel: we have repeatedly held that the first material and sustained invasion of the plaintiff’s property starts our six-year statute of limitation running. The-latest case is Town and Country Motor Hotel, Inc. v. United States, 180 Ct. Cl. 563 (1967); see other cases cited therein.. In light of undisputed facts it is an error of law to fix the date of the taking of the Virginia City district at any date after 1859, an error not correctable by any stipulation or concession of the parties. See my dissent in Tlingit And Haida Indians of Alaska v. United States, supra.
The same principle would fix the taking dates of any other-mining areas in the Paviotso Tract. As to land adapted for agricultural or homestead purposes, the patent dates would-control. As to land still in the public domain, still vacant,. I do not think it has been taken yet.
In tie Snoqnalmie ease no timely- amended petition had been filed, as is not true in the case at bar. By the “original pleading” to be looked to, we do not mean only the first petition filed, but mean to include within the quoted phrase all timely petitions, original or amended.
See my separate observations, infra, where taking date is discussed.
W. N. C. Maxwell, Superintendent New Idria Mine, California, formerly Superintendent Overman Mine, Gold Hill. Nevada; Jerome B. StiU-son, Correspondent New York World, Letter dated July 3, 1865.
Laws of Nevada Territory, p. 16, § 40, and p. 21, §§ 74, 77.
| CASELAW |
Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2016 April 22
= April 22 =
Which golf-game is that?
I have already asked this question in november last year (not here, though) but nobody could give me an satisfying answer. I've played a golf-simulator on a IBM-PS1 when I was young(er) that claimed to have real sound. (during startup the game actually told you this) It must be from the mid 90s and was one of the first games that actually spoke. I have absolutely no idea what the name of this game was so I'd like to ask anybody who thinks to know this game to help me out. Thanx in advance: O X Y G E N E 7-13 ( T A L K P A G E) 16:24, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
* World Class Leaderboard had "real sound" and had some stock phrases that it said. It was available on a lot of old systems from the late 80s and early 90s. <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 16:33, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
* This might actually be that game! Or better; one out of that series. I'm not certain yet, but I think you're right! THNX! O X Y G E N E 7-13 ( T A L K P A G E) 17:07, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
* There was a Commodore 64 game with speech in 1985. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivHFP3dJAkM --Guy Macon (talk) 18:06, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
* I believe the game I am looking for was made for later systems then Commodore 64. I really believe the one mentioned before might be the one. But because I'm restricted by a whitelist, I'm not even able to check Youtube... O X Y G E N E 7-13 ( T A L K P A G E) 18:23, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
* The Wikipedia article Leaderboard says World Class Leaderboard featured RealSound, a method to play audio samples on the PC speaker.
* Here is a YouTube video of World Class Leaderboard for PC/DOS. Since you can't access it, I'll describe some of the major features I noticed in the first few minutes.
* The title screen shows a large pond above a golf green. In the bottom right corner, a logo depicts a speaker cone made of thin white vertical lines with a sound wave coming from it. Under it, red handwriting says RealSound.
* During the gameplay, various sound effects are heard.
* Title screen: lo-fi birdsong
* Swing contacts ball: swoosh sound
* Ball lands in fairway: a voice announces "From my vantage point, it looks safely in the fairway."
* Ball bounces off a tree: clack when ball bounces off tree, then a voice announces "Looks like he hit the tree, Jim."
* Putt: tick sound
* Ball bounces off the hole flag pole: click sound
* Ball misses hole: a few voices say "Aw" in unison
* Ball enters hole: clatter of the ball in the hole, then lo-fi applause
* --Bavi H (talk) 03:58, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
First of all: Thank you for all the effort above!!! (writing it all down 'cause I can't access internet properly...) YESS! This is exactly that game! This does bring up some childhood memories... Frases like: it looks safely in the fairway and Looks like he hit the tree, Jim absolutely helped me to be shure that this is the game I am looking for! Thnx, thnx, thnx!!! O X Y G E N E 7-13 ( T A L K P A G E) 11:52, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Throwing orange juice on a laptop.
If I was to pour a large glass of Tropicana Orange Juice (Smooth version without pulp) onto my Dell laptop, would sparks fly and smoking seep out? --Augustous (talk) 22:15, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
* Probably not. The screen would most likely go blank, and the computer thereafter refuse to work. But hey. You might get lucky. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:30, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
* But what if it was Pulped Orange juice (Not from concentrate) ? --Augustous (talk) 22:50, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
* It appears no one wants to answer my question. No body loves me. --Augustous (talk) 07:23, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
* I haven't tried this with pulped orange juice, but a pupil once spilt a can of Coca-Cola into an Acorn Archimedes A3000 (many years ago). There were no sparks, but I had to take it apart and wash the keyboard under the hot water tap. It worked perfectly when I put it back together again. You might not be so lucky with your laptop, but sparks are unlikely because there are no high voltages. D b f i r s 08:32, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
* Augustous, Your question sounds a little bit like trolling as Your question contains a special brand name of orange juice. But anyway, lets focus on the laptop. Laptop keyboards are made by using 3 plasic foils/films, 2 of them coated with the elecrical conductive matrix keyboard layers, the film in the middle is a spacer for the key switches. This foil sandwitch is build on a metal plate, rubber springs and the key pads are assembled on a scissors lift table each. Key pads a kept lifted by it's rubber spring. The scissors lift al assembled to a plasic grid which is rivet assembled to the metal plate on the bottom. By the Capillary Effect, Fluid is pulled between the keyboard foils causing shortcuts or over time delay of the well filtered signals in such matrix keyboards. As the rivets is formed from a swarf of the metal plate, it can not be repaired in an easy way. To remove fluid, dried fluid and dirt the keyboard needs to be disassemled which fails in reassembling it propperly in a payable time. Mainboards of Dell laptops can be replaced or maintained easyly. Another problem occurs on flat panel display. The same electrical problem of the keyboard is on the flat panel. Inverters for CCFL tubes and the lines and tubes shortcut a high voltage when fluid is applied. Never LEDs does not have this problem when not connected in a single row. Removing battery and power supply immediately saves electical furter damage. Professionals are out of payable time, voluntaries often do not own basics, skills and experience to do it them selves or in a Repair Café, more then 1000 exists world wide. But YouTube is a good idea to get some practical information, but often some or very useful. -- Hans Haase (有问题吗) 16:30, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
* Almost all devices have some short-circuit and overload protection, and would simply turn off for safety reasons. No sparks would fly, nor would the device blow into flames. Scicurious (talk) 21:44, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
* Scicurious, is case of electrical safety, yes. The nonhazardous voltage will never be dangerous for human. High currents manufacturers are required to install fuses a or similar protection. But, when the fluid connects a 19 volts rail to a low voltage logic device, the device will be damaged. For this reason immediately remove battery and power supply. Qualified stuff can clean and reassemble the computer. -- Hans Haase (有问题吗) 07:33, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
* That's right, but not an answer to the question, which specifically states if "sparks fly and smoking seep out." --Scicurious (talk) 18:12, 27 April 2016 (UTC) | WIKI |
Structures within structures
PatGPatG Junior MemberPosts: 42
Hi, can someone link me to a resource that can explain this? I can post more detail as to what's confusing me but if there's a good link I can just check that out to start.
Thanks
Answers
• HARMAN_icraigieHARMAN_icraigie Technical Trainer II, Harman Professional University Posts: 483
Maybe not the most useful but...
structure _time
{
integer hours;
integer minutes;
integer seconds
}
structure _date
{
integer day;
integer month;
integer year;
}
structure _timeStamp
{
_time time;
_date date;
}
volatile _timeStamp uTimeStamp;
uTimeStamp.time.hours = time_to_hour(time);
• PatGPatG Junior Member Posts: 42
• viningvining X Member Posts: 4,353
If you go too big and too deep nesting structures you might not enjoying watching them in debug. If you try to mimic deep jason or xml nests debug can really suck.
• JasonSJasonS If I had known it was going to be that kind of party... Posts: 228
Also you can't use Variable_To_XML on nested structures, it breaks and corrupts the XML.
• fogled@mizzou[email protected] h4x354x0r Posts: 549
I believe there is (or used to be) a hard limit on structure depth, like 5 deep or something like that? I've gone past it.
• PatGPatG Junior Member Posts: 42
I'm still lost. Any other links available?
• JasonSJasonS If I had known it was going to be that kind of party... Posts: 228
What is your application or what are you having dufficulty with so we can provide more relevant help.
• fogled@mizzou[email protected] h4x354x0r Posts: 549
edited February 12
Since I ended up copying and pasting some code anyway, I'll post a simplified version of the structures I use to store room and device data...
(***********************************************************)
(* DATA TYPE DEFINITIONS GO BELOW *)
(***********************************************************)
structure deviceip {
char name[32]
char ipaddr[20]
integer ipport
integer iptype
dev devid
}
structure displaysettings {
char name[32]
integer type
dev devid
dev vdvdevid
integer commtype
deviceip ipcomm[1] //THIS IS PUTTING THE STRUCTURE ABOVE INTO THIS STRUCTURE
char sercomm[64]
integer pwr
integer vmute
integer feed
integer follows
integer status
integer swtid //VGA Switch ID
char vport[16] //VGA Port Number
integer chan
integer amute
integer vol
integer volset
integer tmp
integer ipconnect
integer ipdone
integer init
char text[32]
char buffout[1024] //holds buffer of integer commands as string data for fifo operations
char buffin[512]
char lastacmd[512]
integer lastcmd
}
structure audchans {
char name[20]
integer unit
integer id
integer chan
integer val
integer mute
integer volset
}
structure audiodata {
char name[32]
integer type
integer init
char sernum[16]
audchans ch[30] //THIS PUTS THE AUDIOCHANNELS ABOVE INTO THIS STRUCTURE
}
structure inputs {
char name[32]
integer swtid //VGA Switch ID
char vport[16] //HDMI Switch Video Port (nornally Aud and Vid)
char aport[16] //HDMI Switch Audio Port (Use separate Aud/Vid for oddball stuff)
integer follows
}
//THIS IS THE MAIN, TOP-LEVEL STRUCTURE:
structure room {
char name[32]
char dbid[12]
integer status
displaysettings d[21] //PUTS DISPLAY STRUCTURE (WITH IP SUB_STRUCTURE) IN THIS STRUCTURE
audiodata audio[1] //PUTS AUDIO DATA STRUCTURE & SUB_STRUCTURES INTO THIS STRUCTURE
inputs in[16] //PUTS INPUT DATA STRUCTURE INTO THIS STRUCTURE
helpdata help[1]
}
...then all I have to do to define the whole structure and sub-structure
(***********************************************************)
(* VARIABLE DEFINITIONS GO BELOW *)
(***********************************************************)
DEFINE_VARIABLE
persistent room rm[2] //THIS DEFINES TWO ROOMS with all the data cells of the sub-structures underneath them
Then to get to any cell in the structure:
stored_volume = rm[this_rm].d[this_device].a[1].ch[this_ch].val
...hope that helps if you're still struggling with building and using structures.
• mushmush I programme in the dark! Posts: 285
@JasonS said:
Also you can't use Variable_To_XML on nested structures, it breaks and corrupts the XML.
This is not true, we write nested structures to XML all the time. In some cases up to 5 levels.
• JasonSJasonS If I had known it was going to be that kind of party... Posts: 228
edited May 9
@mush Could you post an example of the code that writes the structure to disk? On an NX or NI processor?
• viningvining X Member Posts: 4,353
I use variable to string and string to variable to pass updated structures, a single level, from modules back to the main all the time and use variable to xml to store data on the flash that are 3 levels deep. I've never noticed corrupted data but to be honest I haven't looked for it either.
• PatGPatG Junior Member Posts: 42
Thanks everyone I figured it out.
• mushmush I programme in the dark! Posts: 285
@JasonS
Sorry for the tardy reply, do you still want code examples?
The NSX help file has a good example under XML_TO_VARIABLE.
If you want more let me know and I'll post some of our examples.
• JasonSJasonS If I had known it was going to be that kind of party... Posts: 228
I am curious to see it work, I spent a good amount of time on it several years ago. A customer wanted a config file that was human readable and editable outside of the control code. I ended up going with a binary file because every time I tried to generate the XML file (using VariableToXML) with nested structures the XML output was corrupt.
• ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 3709 Posts Posts: 4,159
"JasonS
I am curious to see it work, I spent a good amount of time on it several years ago. A customer wanted a config file that was human readable and editable outside of the control code. I ended up going with a binary file because every time I tried to generate the XML file (using VariableToXML) with nested structures the XML output was corrupt."
This is a case where I might jut roll my own file reader. Pinning your hopes on the user getting a file format right every time is a pretty dicey prospect. This might be a good case for a good old fashioned CSV file which Excel et al can open easily enough and even if the format gets jacked up, you cam wrote sp,e cpde to deal with it and repair.
• mushmush I programme in the dark! Posts: 285
@ericmedley
We use XML editing programs to edit our config files. Using XML allows us to enforce the structure of the XML file as well as the data that is entered. e.g numerical or alpha can be enforced.
The example provided is for pre-configuring systems. Once the main code is loaded it looks for an existing XML, if one is found and the system is configured by that file. If there are errors in the file they are displayed on the touch panel and in debugging. If a file is not found a fresh one is written to the master.
This system is very handy when you have to roll out 200+ rooms at a university during summer break!
• viningvining X Member Posts: 4,353
I've been using var to xml for my Viewstat scheduling code for a long time and haven't had any issues with corruption using a 3 deep nested structure.
DEFINE_TYPE
structure sVST_Setting
{
char cVST_Time[11] ;
integer nVST_HTemp ;
integer nVST_CTemp ;
}
structure sVST_Days
{
sVST_Setting sVSTSet[4] ;
}
structure sVST_Stat
{
sVST_Days sVSTDay[7] ;
char cVST_Z_NAME[18] ; //18 is max numbers that fits in vt field at font size.
char cVST_HoldReleaseTime[8] ;
integer nVST_Hold ;
integer nVST_Hold_24 ;
integer nVST_SchedMode ;
}
DEFINE_VARIABLE
non_volatile sVST_Stat sVSTStat[HVAC_ZONES]
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Talk:Zena Skinner
From Redbourn or Luton?
This article puts Zena Skinner in the category "People from Redbourn", but the article says she was born in Luton. Should she therefore be placed in the category called "People from Luton"?Vorbee (talk) 19:59, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
* Best I can tell, she was born in Luton, and she lived in Redbourn later in life. She can be in both categories. Penny Richards (talk) 16:12, 27 March 2020 (UTC) | WIKI |
Page:Scepticism and Animal Faith.djvu/35
tion and inclined to ecstasy, his experience, at this depth of concentration, will be that of an extreme tension which is also liberty, an emptiness which is intensest light; and his denial of all natural facts and events, which he will call illusions, will culminate in the fervent assertion that all is One, and that One is Brahma, or the breath of life. On the other hand, a scientific observer and reasoner, who has pried into substance, and has learned that all the aspects of nature are relative and variable, may still not deny the existence of matter in every object; and this element of mere intensity, drawn from the sense of mere actuality in himself, may lead him to assert that pure Being is, and everything else is not. Finally, a secondary mind fed on books may drop the natural emphasis which objects of sense have for the living animal, and may retain, as the sole filling of its present moment, nothing but the sciences. The philosopher will then balance his denial of material facts by asserting the absolute reality of his knowledge of them. This reality, however, will extend no farther than his information, as some intensest moment of recollection may gather it together; and his personal idea of the world, so composed and so limited, will seem to him the sole existence. His universe will be the after-image of his learning.
We may notice that in these three instances scepticism has not suspended affirmation but has rather intensified it, pouring it all on the devoted head of one chosen object. There is a tireless and deafening vehemence about these sceptical prophets; it betrays the poor old human Psyche labouring desperately within them in the shipwreck of her native hopes, and refusing to die. Her sacrifice, she believes, will be her salvation, and she passionately identifies what remains to her with all she has lost and by an audacious falsehood persuades herself she has lost nothing. | WIKI |
User:Princesumitk
YOU START DYING SLOWLY if you do not travel if you do not read if you do not listen to the sound of life if you do not appreciate yourself YOU start dying slowly.... | WIKI |
Page:Archaeological Journal, Volume 29.djvu/526
1 ! POST.>CKFrT. upper lino, which, if ujicu to the arch.t>uloi:;ists, would be only benefit to them, but they are rigorously excluclod, and it is saul that the new door is to be elosed ag-ain. But this is only one example of what is going on in Home at this moment. Of the list of olyects that I have enumerated as worth preserving, some miglit be saved for a hundred pounds or perhaps less, such as the cellars and caves. Othei"s would require thousands. The site of the Liwacrum of Agripi>ina was sold at seventy francs the square yard, but that was quite an exceptional case, being on the line of a new street. •/ | WIKI |
Gus Lewis
Gus Lewis (born January 19, 1993) is an American actor. He is best known for playing the young Bruce Wayne in the 2005 film Batman Begins, co-starring with Christian Bale and Michael Caine. That year, he also co-starred in the film Asylum alongside Hugh Bonneville and Natasha Richardson.
Career
In 2005, Lewis played a young Bruce Wayne in the film Batman Begins, whose adult counterpart was Christian Bale. The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry observed that Lewis played "an intense and appealing" child, while Orlando Weekly opined that the actor "makes a strong impression as the 8-year-old Bruce, leaving a firm foundation for Bale's haunted-scion act."
Lewis played Charlie Raphael in the 2005 drama film Asylum, the son of characters played by Hugh Bonneville and Natasha Richardson. The Washington Times' Gary Arnold observed that Lewis portrayed the only sympathetic person in the film. For the film, Lewis had to perform a stunt involving the near drowning of his character. While they used a nine-year-old stunt child for the wider shots, the close-ups used Lewis and his co-star Rhydian Jones. Lewis' mother was constantly nearby during its filming.
Lewis appeared as Matthew Couillard, a real-life person who survived a deadly snowstorm while skiing in Turkey with his father, in a 2006 episode of the documentary television series I Shouldn't Be Alive. In 2008, Lewis worked on the dramatised documentary The Shooting of Thomas Hurndall, which depicted the real-life story of a young peace activist who is killed in Israel. In 2012, Lewis appeared in the short film The End, which won Best Film at HollyShorts Film Festival, and the Award of Merit at the Lucerne International Film Festival. | WIKI |
The other 322 senators who resigned, in charts
Washington (CNN)Al Franken will become the 323rd member of the Senate to resign from office in the coming weeks. But what do we know about the 322 who came before him? Resignations amid scandals are rare: Before Franken, only four Senators had called it quits in the midst of a scandal in the last century, according to a list of resignations from the Senate Historical Office. Franken, D-Minnesota, announced on Thursday that he'd leave his post in the coming weeks after being accused of inappropriately touching multiple women before and after he was a senator. More than two dozen Democratic senators called for his resignation Wednesday, and an Ethics Committee investigation was already underway. But a majority of the resignations since the country was founded have happened because the senator was moving to another government post. Here's a full breakdown with data from the Senate Historical Office: Nearly a quarter of the resignations (23%) have happened for some kind of executive branch appointment, while about a seventh (14%) quit to run for governor or another state or local office. About one in ten (11%) quit to join a federal or state or local judiciary and 7% quit for a diplomatic appointment. The number of those moving to an executive branch post has climbed dramatically, from 15% before 1850 to 34% since 1850. About one in eight (12%) quit for some private pursuit outside of government. Another 6% quit because of an illness, and 5% withdrew after secession during the Civil War. Another 3% resigned over scandal and 2% resigned after a clash with their state legislatures, back before the direct election of senators, which was enshrined for all 50 states by the 17th Amendment in 1913. Reasons for 13% of the resignations are unclear, according to the Senate Historical Office, but nearly all of them occurred before 1850. The most recent "unclear" resignation was Mel Martinez, the Florida Republican senator who left in 2009. "There is no impending reason; it's only my desire to move on and to get on with the rest of my life," Martinez said at the time. Unlike Martinez, Franken did not want to go. "Today I am announcing that in the coming weeks I will be resigning as a member of the United States Senate," Franken said from the Senate floor, before turning to hit Trump. "I, of all people, am aware that there is some irony in the fact that I am leaving, while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office, and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the -- with the full support of his party." Senators resigned at much faster rates earlier in the country's history as well. Two in three resignations took place before the end of the Civil War, while only 31 senators have resigned in the last half century, mostly to fill other government positions. The last to resign amid a scandal was Sen. John Ensign, R-Nevada, in 2011, who quit during an investigation by the Ethics Committee into his affair with a former campaign staffer who was married to a Senate staffer. Before that, Sen. Robert Packwood, R-Oregon, resigned after being recommended for expulsion amid accusations of sexual abuse in 1995. Going farther back, Sen. Harrison Williams, D-New Jersey, resigned in 1982 after being recommended for expulsion after a bribery conviction. In 1922, Sen. Truman Newberry, R- Michigan, resigned after a conviction for election irregularities that was later reversed. William Clark, D-Montana, resigned for bribery in 1900 and Alexander Caldwell, R-Kansas, for election irregularities in 1873. The states with the most resignations are Massachusetts with 20, then Georgia, Virginia, South Carolina and New York. Franken will be the 4th to resign from Minnesota. A few of the most recent senators to call it quits include Alabama's Jeff Sessions earlier this year, Oklahoma's Tom Coburn in 2015, Montana's Max Baucus in 2014, Massachusetts' John Kerry in 2013, South Carolina's Jim DeMint in 2012, Nevada's Ensign in 2011, plus Illinois' Barack Obama, Delaware's Joe Biden, New York's Hillary Clinton and Colorado's Ken Salazar during the 2008-09 presidential transition. | NEWS-MULTISOURCE |
User:MaranoFan/DYK
My DYKs
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> Thank You
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Watch Me Do"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Lips Are Movin"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Dear Future Husband"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> Meghan Trainor
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> Treat Myself
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> MTrain Tour
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Swan Song"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Me Too"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "I'll Be Home"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "All About That Bass"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Me!"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "All the Ways"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Lover"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> The Love Train
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "The Man"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Un Dia (One Day)"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "As It Was"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Remember the Name"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Deja Vu"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "I Drink Wine"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "To Be Loved"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Can I Get It"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Happier Than Ever" (song)
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Water Under the Bridge"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "When We Were Young"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Made You Look"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Mother"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> Takin' It Back
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Oh My God"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> Adele One Night Only
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Talking to Yourself"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Daylight"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> David Kushner
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Dance the Night"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Vampire"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> The Loveliest Time
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> Guts
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> A Very Trainor Christmas
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Mr Right"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Bad Idea Right?"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "The Grudge"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "All-American Bitch"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> List of songs recorded by Alessia Cara
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "My Little Love"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Get Him Back!"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Lacy"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> Weekends with Adele
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> List of songs recorded by Tate McRae
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Feather"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Wrap Me Up"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Can't Catch Me Now"
* [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px]] -> "Ballad of a Homeschooled Girl" | WIKI |
What is information gain
Introduction
Machine learning is widely used in various fields, such as image recognition, natural language processing, and data analysis. One of the fundamental concepts in machine learning is information gain, which measures how much knowledge is gained by using a certain attribute to split a dataset. In this article, we will explore what is information gain and how it is used in machine learning algorithms.
What is Information Gain?
Information gain is a measure of the usefulness of an attribute in determining the class of a given dataset. In other words, it calculates the amount of information that an attribute provides about the class. The more information an attribute provides, the more useful it is for classification. Information gain is used to select the most significant features from a dataset and to build decision trees.
How is Information Gain Calculated?
To calculate information gain, we use the concept of the entropy. Entropy measures the level of uncertainty in a dataset. If all the examples in a dataset have the same class, the entropy is zero. The higher the number of classes in a dataset, the higher the entropy.
The formula for entropy is:
“`
E(S) = -∑(p_i*log_2(p_i))
“`
where `p_i` represents the proportion of examples of class `i` in the dataset `S`. The entropy value ranges from 0 to 1. If the dataset has only one class, the entropy is zero. If the dataset has two classes with equal proportions, the entropy is 1.
To calculate the information gain of an attribute `A` for a given dataset `S`, we first calculate the entropy of the entire dataset `E(S)` and then the entropy of the dataset `S` after splitting it by the attribute `A`. We then subtract the new entropy from the original entropy to obtain the information gain. The formula for information gain is:
“`
IG(S, A) = E(S) – ∑(|S_v| / |S|) * E(S_v)
“`
where `S_v` is the subset of `S` that contains examples for which the attribute `A` has the value `v`.
To select the best attribute for splitting a dataset, we simply choose the attribute with the highest information gain.
Example
Suppose we have a dataset `S` that contains examples of three classes:
“`
S = {(cold, yes), (warm, no), (hot, yes), (cold, no), (hot, yes)}
“`
where the first attribute is the temperature and the second attribute is whether the person likes ice cream or not. We want to build a decision tree to predict whether a person likes ice cream or not based on their temperature preference.
We first calculate the entropy of the entire dataset `E(S)`:
“`
E(S) = – (2/5)*log_2(2/5) – (3/5)*log_2(3/5) = 0.971
“`
We then calculate the entropy of the dataset after splitting it by the temperature attribute `A`:
“`
S_cold = {(cold, yes), (cold, no)}
S_warm = {(warm, no)}
S_hot = {(hot, yes), (hot, yes)}
E(S_cold) = – (1/2)*log_2(1/2) – (1/2)*log_2(1/2) = 1
E(S_warm) = 0
E(S_hot) = – (1/2)*log_2(1/2) – (1/2)*log_2(1/2) = 1
IG(S, A) = 0.971 – (2/5)*1 – (1/5)*0 – (2/5)*1 = 0.171
“`
Thus, the information gain for the temperature attribute is 0.171, which means that it is the best attribute to split the dataset.
Conclusion
Information gain is an essential concept in machine learning, used for selecting the most significant features from a dataset and building decision trees. It measures the amount of knowledge gained by using an attribute to split a dataset. To calculate information gain, we use the entropy to measure the level of uncertainty in the dataset. The attribute with the highest information gain is selected for splitting the dataset. | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Automobiles are a type of vehicle that is used for transportation purposes. These vehicles are usually large and have four wheels. They are popular alternatives to public transportation and can be useful for people who live in busy areas or who travel on long distances.
The development of the automobile began in Europe and later in the United States. The first vehicles were small and designed to transport two or three passengers, but they were still slow and unreliable. In the 1880s, a number of engineers developed new designs for cars that were more practical and affordable.
During the early 1900s, the automobile started changing society. It helped people have more freedom and allowed them to do more things in their leisure time. It also gave people access to jobs and services.
There are many different kinds of cars that are available on the market today. These include trucks, vans, and sedans. There are even some that can be driven off road.
Some people drive these vehicles to work, while others use them to go shopping or attend events. Whether you are driving a car or using public transportation, the most important thing is to make sure that you get to where you need to be safely.
A car is a self-propelled vehicle that is fueled by an internal combustion engine or an electric motor. It is commonly used for transportation purposes, but it can also be used as a means of powering industrial equipment.
The development of the automobile was led by engineers in Germany and France. These countries had the best industrial systems, and were in a position to build cars more quickly than were other European nations.
One of the most important developments in the history of the automobile was the introduction of the assembly line. This system allowed factories to turn out several models of the same model of car at once, making them more affordable and giving more people the chance to own a vehicle.
When Henry Ford introduced the assembly line to the United States, it changed the way that automobiles were made. He saw that if he could put the engines, gears, and other parts in an orderly fashion, he would be able to produce a larger number of cars more quickly than before.
By the end of the century, Ford was able to turn out a hundred cars a day. He was able to do this by installing more efficient production equipment and by producing cars at a lower cost than before.
As the United States became an industrial nation, the need for better roads and better transportation increased. This demand required more industries to supply the automobile parts and fuel needed to keep up with demand.
It also required a lot of land to build roads and other infrastructure. This created a huge amount of pollution and caused a lot of damage to the environment.
The automobile has been a key part of the growth and success of the American economy. It provided new jobs and services, grew the middle class, and helped to create a consumer goods-oriented society. | FINEWEB-EDU |
Talk:Christine Lagarde
Criminal Conviction
As mentioned in a subsection, Christine Lagarde is a convicted criminal (for negligence in the use of public funds). This is very important information to surface, and it is front-and-center in the bios of other high-profile criminals. JonQalg (talk) 20:08, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
Along with my edit to the description, I would like to add the relevant sections for the cutout: Criminal status, Conviction, etc JonQalg (talk) 20:33, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
See here for an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli JonQalg (talk) 20:34, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
* The article already mentions Lagarde's conviction in the fourth paragraph of the lead, and devotes a three-paragraph subsection to it. This seems to be perfectly adequate coverage to me. Lagarde is absolutely not predominantly known for her criminal convictions in a way which would justify including it in the first sentence of her biography, ahead of her roles as politician, lawyer, and president of the ECB as this edit attempted to do. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 15:29, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
That edit appears to be the appropriate place for something that merits a three-paragraph subsection. She had become very well known for her recent criminal conviction, likely because of her role as president of the ECB, a role that one imagines requires a lack of negligence in the use of public funds. JonQalg (talk) 23:31, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
Looks like we will have another example soon! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristina_Fern%C3%A1ndez_de_Kirchner JonQalg (talk) 15:46, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
* I've reverted this out of the first sentence. It likely should have a sentence somewhere later in the lead, but it's placement in the first sentence is undue. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 00:21, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
* I agree with this. Reliable sources do not generally regard the conviction as central to her notability Tristario (talk) 01:24, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
* I have reverted the addition of the word "criminal" because that is not how the sources characterize the conviction of "negligence". In fact, one source says that the criminal case had been dropped. ~Anachronist (talk) 02:30, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
The NYT source calls it a “criminal conviction” JonQalg (talk) 02:35, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
* Per WP:BLPPUBLIC we need multiple sources saying that. And even if some do, if most of them don't, we should probably still avoid or put less emphasis on that wording per WP:NPOV Tristario (talk) 02:39, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Instead of removing my edit, please suggest an alternative edit that will surface this important information. JonQalg (talk) 02:37, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
* Important to whom? What matters on Wikipedia are the policies and guidelines that govern what we say about living persons, not any editor's opinion of what is "important". Just saying "conviction" is sufficient. The WP:BURDEN is on you, not anyone else, to support the assertion you want to add. Of the 10 sources cited in that paragraph, none of them mention the word "criminal" or "crime" in the context of this conviction of "negligence"; in fact the Bloomberg source says a criminal suit was dropped. I cannot see the NYT source. As far as I can tell, you are committing a violation of WP:BLP by including it, and edit-warring about it without meeting WP:BURDEN will likely lead to a block on your account. ~Anachronist (talk) 02:51, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Your assertions about the sources are incorrect. A I have mentioned, the NYT source linked clearly states it is a “criminal conviction.” What more proof do you need? JonQalg (talk) 04:59, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Here is one of many sources that cite a criminal conviction: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/19/business/imf-trial-christine-lagarde-france-verdict.html?_r=0. Stop removing my edit please. I have met my burden of proof and you are likely to be banned for edit warring, not me. JonQalg (talk) 05:03, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
More sources : 1. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/19/business/lagarde-imf-verdict-france-questions.html
2. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-24/orange-ceo-convicted-in-453-million-arbitration-payout-case JonQalg (talk) 05:05, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-19/imf-head-lagarde-convicted-in-french-negligence-trial JonQalg (talk) 05:07, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Fixed the second link JonQalg (talk) 05:07, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Another source in the article with the same language: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/christine-lagarde-convicted-imf-head-found-guilty-of-negligence-in-fraud-trial-a7484586.html JonQalg (talk) 05:20, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
A French article using similar language: https://www.liberation.fr/france/2016/12/19/christine-lagarde-coupable-sans-peine_1536376/ JonQalg (talk) 05:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
* This source says "The court, which noted her national and international stature, spared her a criminal record." And most of those sources you just gave don't say she was criminally convicted. 1. Says she was found guilty of criminal charges, the bloomberg sources don't say that, The independent only says that in the headline (see WP:HEADLINES), and the Liberation article doesn't seem to say that either Tristario (talk) 06:04, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
The article you cite is a “primer,” and doesn’t dispute her conviction. The Bloomberg article uses the word “convicted” in the first sentence and the Liberation article uses a translation. JonQalg (talk) 06:18, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
* No one is disputing that she's been convicted, it's whether there's enough sourcing to say she's been "criminally convicted" or to call her a "convicted criminal". And it's still reliable, even though it's described as a "primer". Please take time to read WP:BLP to understand some of the considerations here. Tristario (talk) 06:22, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
How is it possible to be convicted without it being a criminal conviction? JonQalg (talk) 06:23, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
* I've reverted out criminal from the lead section again. Trying to force you preferred option isn't going to work. You need to follow the WP:BRD process and convince other editors that the addition of criminal is justified. Personally even if the sourcing is good enough I don't believe it would be WP:DUE in the first sentence of the lead. It's simply not the first thing that she is known for. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 08:05, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
That’s based only on your opinion. I have backed up the due weight of this information with multiple sources. You have cited nothing to back up your assertion that she is not known for being a convicted criminal. JonQalg (talk) 17:50, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
* You've been reverted by five different editors, so not just me. And as per WP:ONUS it is up to you to convince us otherwise. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 18:14, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
* There are other editors making similar changes to mine. I am trying to achieve consensus on this change, but you are not responding to my arguments in good faith. I am opening a dispute resolution request in the hope that less biased editors might intervene. JonQalg (talk) 18:25, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
* Please go ahead. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 18:32, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
* I guess I should tell you you've added you complaint to a closed section of WP:DRN. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 18:53, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Please note that I have blocked JonQalg from editing the article for 72 hours following blatant edit-warring against consensus. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:38, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
Letter intended for Sarkozy
Having checked Le Monde, I adjusted the wording. Clarification was needed because at the time when the letter was apparently drafted, Sarkozy was most likely president, not former president. It isn't clear that the document is relevant to the "criminal conviction" under which we mention it, rather than the "ministerial career" which we currently deal with very briefly. Andrew Dalby 15:12, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 1 August 2023
Remove : Spouse = Eachran Gilmour She was never married to Eachran Gilmour this is a mistake. She is currently married to Xavier Giocanti and was married to Wilfred Lagarde. Agiocanti (talk) 12:32, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
* Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: In addition to the Telegraph citation already used in the article, New York Times, CNN, and Irish Examiner all say she was married to Gilmour. Xan747 (talk) 20:58, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
BLP issue
This is an unusual one. Last week, I was at a European leaders lunch with a number of people, including Christine Lagarde. After the lunch, we chatted and she told me that there's an error in her Wikipedia entry relating to her marriages. In fact, she married Wilfred Lagarde, as we say, but was never married to Eachran Gilmour, and is now married to Xavier Giocanti. I went back to my hotel room and studied the issue and found that there are loads of ordinarily reliable sources for what we've done - so the error isn't ours. Later at the conference I went over to her to make sure I had heard her correctly, and I mentioned the sources. She says, and I'm quite sure she's right, that there was an error in the New York Times in 1999, and since then various other sources have repeated the claim. I would imagine that Wikipedia has assisted in an unfortunate way through "citogenesis" as lazy journalists going to write a profile of her rely on what is stated in Wikipedia.
I do not think we should continue reporting something that isn't true - and saying that someone is married and divorced when they weren't makes it a BLP issue. As a first attempt to resolve it, I have moved all 3 men into "Domestic partners" and propose that we look harder for sources to confirm her marriage to Xavier. Unfortunately I didn't think to ask her for those.
I should add that I have no COI of any kind here.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 08:19, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
* Your personal anecdotes don't trump our WP:V policies, as seen in the past. You have tried "correcting" BLPs in the past based on what some celebrity told you, only to beshown that either you or they were wrong in those claims. Now, it may well be that this time you are right, but your say-so (nor that of anyone else) has in the end no weight. No original research. Fram (talk) 09:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
* But WP:BLP trumps everything, and this is a BLP issue. I'm reverting back to my version, and bringing this to wider attention. There is a clean solution here that resolves the question completely - decide that the exact marital status isn't encyclopedic or is in question, keep it out of the body, take note in a footnote. Deliberately and obstinately keeping incorrect information in an article is basically never the right asnwer on BLP questions. Remember: Ignore all rules is policy, there specifically to deal with weird edge cases like this. "If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it." --Jimbo Wales (talk) 15:19, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* See e.g. the Guardian from 2011. Our article at that time did not even mention Gilmour, so they didn't seem to have gotten that info from us. As the Guardian info in that section is clearly from post-1999, it isn't just a copy of the NYtimes article either. So that's at least two independent, good, WP:RS. Fram (talk) 09:28, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
* I also found CNN, and Irish Examiner. Our article cites the Telegraph. With the NYT and Guardian, that gives us five total RS. If sources existed that say she was NOT married to Gilmour I think we would have already turned them up. It was correct to revert Jimbo's edit. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑✈️ 15:25, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
* A different kind of reliable source, confirming a marriage to Gilmour, is the Lagarde biography in The Europa Directory of International Organizations 2022 (Apologies if not everyone can see this page), I quote, "m. 2nd Eachran Gilmour (divorced)". This bio is not based on Wikipedia, as shown by a following sentence "started career as lecturer at Univ. Paris X" which we don't happen to say.
* There are signs that someone wants to adjust the Wikipedia record right now. On the French wiki, user fr:Utilisateur:Xavier Giocanti has been editing the page fr:Xavier Giocanti and also made a hamfisted edit to fr:Christine Lagarde; user User:Agiocanti has made a comment above. Andrew Dalby 13:07, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* I have no idea at all whether those editors are who they say they are, but I see no particular reason to doubt it. If they had asked me, I would have said definitely don't edit this yourself. But we all know that people who have false negative things said about them in Wikipedia have a right under BLP policy to edit it - they aren't required to learn all our rules. The important thing for us is the ethics and morality of speaking the truth. Here we have an unusual situation to be sure, in which the reliable sources are wrong. This is why I am advocating for a middle ground answer where we simply don't address the specific question of marital status at all. Nothing in her biography hinges on it one way or the other. Remember IAR: If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 15:33, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* For the moment I have rolled back to my version. Let's go with that for now as the least controversial (side-stepping the issue of exact marital status) way to handle an unusual BLP issue. Before editing back to the (factually wrong but well-sourced) version, let's have a proper discussion, bringing in more voices to seek consensus on the best way to handle this. Remember, this is an unusual situation, about a detail that isn't particularly important or controversial but may have great personal impact on the subject(s) of the article. It is crucial that we strive not to blindly follow rules when there is a better way to improve Wikipedia: "If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it." This is a perfect application of that policy, and a good example of why it exists. --Jimbo Wales (talk) 15:22, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* (ec)"The least controversial version"? We have a long-standing, well-sourced version, discussed above, which multiple people agree with; and we have a WP:OR/hearsay version, pushed for by involved editors, including you (with a clear COI). WP:BRD, WP:V, all are against your version. Having to resort to IAR (when it is obviously disputed whether that version actually improves Wikipedia in any way) is a clear sign of weakness. Before changing the stable, well-sourced version again, perhaps try to convince some editors and get consensus. Fram (talk) 15:35, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* And with regards to your email, a combination of emotional blackmail and a good insight in why you take this action, because it comes from "a powerful person": we have haf this discussion before, and you were wrong then as well, and in that case the person who got you to change their page either deliberately lied or was mistaken. The same goes for your other recent attempt to change a BLP of a "poweful person" who claimed that our article was wrong, and were you went so far as too claim that the "error" was invented by a Wikipedian while in reality it was first published by a reliable source. Instead of doing the bidding of your powerful friends, just leave it to uninvolved editors, raise the issue on the talk page and let others decide. The repeated occurrences of this issue really reflect badly on you. Fram (talk) 15:43, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* To repeat, Fram, I have no conflict of interest of any kind here. Christine Lagarde is not a friend of mine. We just happened to meet at an event. This is not about me, and it is not about your emotions. It's about improving Wikipedia.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 15:47, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* Which you aren't doing by disregarding all rules to please powerful people you know again and again. Fram (talk) 15:54, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* I will just remind you of WP:AGF and WP:NPA. This is not about me, it is not about your anger at me for whatever reason, it is about improving Wikipedia.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 15:55, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* You mailed me that "If a powerful person says "Wikipedia deliberately publishes false information that they know to be false, because their rules on sourcing drive them in that direction" that's very bad for us - and should never be true." You have tried in the distant and recent past to change articles based on what such "powerful people" told you, even in cases where their claims weren't true, and even going so far as to claim that some disputed fact originated on enwiki, when that was very easily shown to be false. This is about you and your mistaken belief that our most basic policies don't apply to you are your powerful friends. You may repeat "it is about improvng Wikipedia" a thousand times, but that is the same "but the truth" mantra repeated by every editor who believes that the sourcing rules don't apply to their special, obvious, important, ... case and that they have personal knowledge that X or Y isn't like we describe it. We don't even waive these policies for actual experts on certain topics, why should we do it here? For optics? I have defended this very article against actual negative edits multiple times long before you came along, it's not as if I don't care about BLP or improving Wikipedia. Fram (talk) 16:12, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* I will just remind you of WP:AGF and WP:NPA. Your comments here about me are irrelevant to Christine Lagarde's biography and I think it is time for you to move on from it. My point is that it is very very common for people to have a problem with their BLPs and a feeling that Wikipedians are more intertested in their own bureaucracy than the simple human dignity of getting it right on BLP issues. Your insistence here on repeatedly inserting false material based on a very narrow (and incorrect) willingness to ignore the fundamental values of Wikipedia are a pretty good example. You might think of this as mere "optics" - but it is not. It is also an issue of optics - when Wikipedia gets a reputation (which it does have) of being incredibly annoying when people seek to correct an error, it is precisely behavior like yours that comes to mind.
* I am not suggesting that we simply reflect the claims of the subject - that's not necessary in this case. I'm merely recommending that - for now - we edit the article so that it no longer expresses a falsehood - one that doesn't impact the biography in any really material way - by not getting into the specifics of marital status. It's the right thing to do, and your anger with me about unrelated issues is something you should stop going on about, please!--Jimbo Wales (talk) 16:33, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* We only have your claim that it is "false material" (which I'm not "inserting", I'm restoring the status quo), actual reliable sources disagree with this. In such cases we always go with the reliable sources. And no, when an editor makes the same mistake again and again across different articles, then these are not "unrelated issues" and it isn't a personal attack to bring this up. Fram (talk) 16:50, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* For those who may not know what Fram is talking about, may be helpful to read. I was right in that case, but he's unhappy about that including that he's unhappy that a source he found was removed, presumably by the subject trying to make a concerted effort to set the record straight. Fram insists on framing this (unfairly and in a very much not assuming good faith way) as me helping out "celebrity pals" when that's absolutely an insult to me and false. People who meet me often know of a real error in their Wikipedia entry. Sometimes I can help, sometimes I can't.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:16, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* No, I was "unhappy" that you made incorrect claims about where the issue originated, which was not on Wikipedia but in an older, reliable source. And when a person you know professionally (like you said there) contacts you to edit their Wikipedia page, then you clearly have a Coi, no matter what you claim. Fram (talk) 17:36, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* Note that Jimbo Wales raised this issue at the BLPN noticeboard, but forgot to mention that here. Fram (talk) 16:26, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* Re-read and you'll realise, Fram: there are some phrases there that read a tiny little bit like a personal attack.
* You don't find many sources saying "X didn't marry Y". So, in this case, X denies marrying Y and wants us not to assert it: it is a point of some interest to X: with what reliable source does X persuade us? I can find two right now: a 2019 French biography by Cyrille Lachèvre and Marie Visot, Christine Lagarde - Enquête sur la femme la plus puissante du monde. Via a page search for "Gilmour" this refers to her two great romances, with Wilfried Lagarde, "her husband", and with the Briton Eachran Gilmour: it never even hints that she married the latter and in context this strongly implies she didn't; OK, not good enough? Here's another: Jean-Louis Beaucarnot, Le Tout Politique (2022) which lists all three relationships, with Wilfried Lagarde she was "mariée", with Gilmour she was "unie" (important difference) and with Giocanti she has "refait sa vie". On the question whether she and Giocanti have married, I've easily found contradictory sources saying that they have and that they haven't.
* You know, I'm inclined to edit the infobox, make them all domestic partners, add footnotes to all three. Does anyone object? Andrew Dalby 18:21, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* Domestic partner is a legal status in some jurisdictions, so we should not say that without documentation of same. I think "Relationships" is a normal category for infoboxes? And where sources disagree, hang a note to that effect next to the citations? Goes without saying the article text should also be updated to note the discrepancies. I'm not saying to do this immediately--there should be further discussion. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑✈️ 18:31, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* Yeah, I shouldn´t have made personal attacks like "Your insistence here on repeatedly inserting false material". Oh, wait, that wasn´t me but the person concerned about personal attacks and so on... Anyway, what you are doing, raising the issue on the talk page and looking for actual sources is the correct approach to challenge well-sourced claims, not the attempts to change it contrary to WP:V. Fram (talk) 19:26, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
* Fram, this is incorrect when we are talking about BLP issues. With a BLP issue it's important to remove the offending material first, and then discuss. Saying that someone was married to and divorced from someone they were not married to and divorced from is a BLP issue, and is not something particularly important or controversial to the biography. (It isn't some major claim about her career, for example, where there might be an issue with someone wanting to whitewash a problem.). Thank you for your kind and thoughtful treatment of me throughout all this.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 08:28, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
* But we had only your word that this fact, which has been reported by numerous very reliable sources for nearly 25 years, was actually "offending material" (it's not as if we coupled her to someone she didn't know or never had a relation with). Please see WP:V: "Never use self-published sources as third-party sources about living people, even if the author is an expert, well-known professional researcher, or writer." (emphasis in original). You are a third party, your comment is self-published. There was no reason at all to rush in like a bull in a china shop to remove this perfectly-sourced claim which isn't "particularly important or controversial" to begin with. The approach by Andrew Dalby is the right one, look for sources and evidence: otherwise ask the person involved to set the record straight in reliable sources or on a verifiable self-published source. Fram (talk) 08:43, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
* Thanks for your replies. The solution is yours, but adding footnotes, and I intend to make an edit to the text at "Personal life" with footnotes again. I don't usually mess with infoboxes on en:wiki, and I take Xan747's point, but as far as I can see "Relationship(s)" isn't a parameter and "Partner" is the one to choose: to me as an English-speaking punter, "partner" seems to be the polite general term. Dates are recommended in the template documentation, but I will probably leave those to be added later if I don't find them all in the sources I'm citing. Andrew Dalby 08:11, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
* Thank you, Andrew, this is an excellent resolution. I think because she is a central banker and not a celebrity, reporting on her current marriage (I found virtually nothing, but as you can read French you seem to have found more!) is probably uneven. If there's a source that says they are married, that's great, because that's the fact and it's probably better to source to that.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 08:25, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
* I guess she and Giocanti married in 2020 without any publicity: I don't think any web source confirms it, though a few sources of various dates describe them as married. I hope you think my edits are reasonable. I know you've been keen to ensure this page is properly sourced, not an easy task. In my last edit, coming right now, I'll remove the footnote references from the infobox, keeping the ones in the text. If you prefer the infobox to be footnoted, feel free to revert! Andrew Dalby 15:29, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
@Andrew Dalby, this is looking much better, thank you. I saw that wp:dailymail was cited to support 1992 as the year she divorced Wilfred Lagarde. Since it is deprecated, I replaced it with the Fast Facts CNN citation we were already using elsewhere. I would like to discuss some tweaks as follows:
Reasoning for changes: Finally, about the infobox: the template allows to set both the spouse and partner parameters simultaneously. Since there is no dispute she was married to Lagarde, I propose listing him as a spouse, and the others as partners. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑✈️ 18:20, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
* 1) We don't know how many partners she had before or after Lagarde, so we should not describe Gilmour as her second partner.
* 2) I think it's important to be explicit in the main text about the contested marriage statuses as many (most?) readers probably don't read footnotes.
* Replacing the Daily Mail citation with another is fine, of course.
* I've numbered your points (forgive me for doing this) so as not to repeat point 1 verbatim: it sounds potentially intrusive to me, and anyway (you don't need me to tell you this) it isn't about what we know, it's about reliable sources. All relevant reliable sources list three partnerships, so I don't honestly think "second partner" went beyond the sources. "Sometime later" seems worse to me. I'll maybe try another rewording: please comment in return, as freely as I have done here.
* Last point: The problem with the infobox is that people often don't read the text, let alone the footnotes. If we list one relationship as "Spouse" and the others not, we are implying that the others are not: but, in both cases, we don't know that they are not. Our sources are contradictory. Therefore it's better not to let the implication even arise. If others are not happy with listing all three as partners, my alternative, as already suggested by at the BLP noticeboard, is to take the information out of the infobox completely, at least until we have a really reliable source that beats all others.
* Point 2: I feel uncertain about putting doubts on this subject in the text of the article: aren't they better in the footnotes? The conflict between reliable sources is a problem among Wikipedians, not a real world problem. Is it notable? Barely. Andrew Dalby 12:24, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
* @Andrew Dalby,
* I would be happier with "2nd known partner". Without the qualifier it sounds like we know she's only had three romantic relationships in her life, whereas all we know is that she's had three partners biographers and the press found worthy of mentioning. Perhaps we could do something like:
* I think this addresses your "sometime later" concern by removing the question of timing altogether, with which I am happy. Note also that I changed past to present tense since we are referring to people who so far as we know are not dead.
* I take your point about my previous infobox suggestion. How about listing only Wilfried, as a former spouse? Not only are we most certain about their marital status, that they had children together makes him the most notable and deserving of mention there. It's also customary to give marriage and divorce years using a template:
* | spouse = Wilfried Lagarde (m. 1982-1992)
* I feel pretty strongly about noting that sources disagree in the article text itself, especially when it comes to Gilmour, but not strong enough to belabor the point.
* I hope these lengthy comments are helpful. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑✈️ 14:24, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
* Very helpful, and thank you. Listing in the infobox just the one spouse for whom we have the exact dates we prefer to have -- that would be acceptable to me. Shall we just wait and see what others say? It would be useful too to have others' comments on where we mention our doubts, text or footnotes ... however, the addition of "but not when" is genius. Exactly true, too. Do it!
* [I revised this sentence as you suggested. Andrew Dalby 15:45, 11 August 2023 (UTC) ]
* This may all become unnecessary if some really decisive source turns up, but right now I don't see it on the horizon :) Andrew Dalby 14:40, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
* I actually think that our explicitly calling out in the article (main body or footnote, I don't mind which) makes it much more likely that a definitive source will emerge. Here's how the process of journalism often works - a journalist is assigned to write a profile or do an interview. They pop to read Wikipedia first, and they largely don't bother asking questions that seem to be settled and not controversial. If the New York Times said it in 1999, and lots of others have repeated it, why waste someone's time asking about it. So you do the profile/interview and you round it out with the general background that you got from Wikipedia, the New York Times, and so on. But if Wikipedia says "oh, some sources say this, some say that" then hey, suddenly that's an interesting enough question to just confirm with the subject. NPOV works well, including factually reporting that we don't know for sure, as opposed to repeating misinformation and appearing to be simply consistent with the most popular sources. I think we're getting close to a strong outcome here.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:14, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
* Just believing that she is telling the truth and all other sources (and we) were posting misinformation is one of the reasons why these kind of things need discussion, as happens now, instead of rushing in to "fix" things without regard for policies. As highlighted on the BLPN discussion, the Telegraph had this to say: "Her first marriage, in 1982, to a financial analyst called Wilfred Lagarde, produced two sons, but seems to have ended badly a decade later, for all mention of Wilfred has been expunged from her biographies." (emphasis mine) While obviously exaggerated, it seems to indicate or at least hint at attempts to get history rewritten if she no longer likes it. Whether that would go as far as actually lying about previous marriages is something we don't and can't know, but it at least should give us pause in the "she said it so it must be true" narrative. We don't know, and we should never correct articles against the good sources just because the subject asks for it (or so we are told). Raise the issue on the talk page, let people see for themselves what the problem may be and what sources say, and then try to find a compromise. A fact like this, repeated everywhere for 25 years and included here for many years as well, is not something that needs to be removed ASAP but warrants careful consideration. The BLPN discussion is quite clear that there may be good reasons to avoid the discussions of partners and so on altogether, but is also quite clear that no one should change articles just because the subject claims that the sources are wrong. Fram (talk) 17:39, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
* Having heard those views, I no longer hesitate. I would be glad for to change the text as suggested in the box above. Andrew Dalby 17:46, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
* No objection here. Fram (talk) 18:05, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
* Glad we got it sorted. @Andrew Dalby, I was just about to implement the changes when I saw that you had already done, "Some sources say they have married, but not when." I presume you're working on the other ones now unless you say otherwise. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑✈️ 18:15, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
* @Andrew Dalby, scratch that; I just now realized that I was to do the remaining changes. Working on it now ... Xan747 ✈️ 🧑✈️ 18:21, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
* Ok all done. I fixed the Infobox correctly, but wrongly wrote in the edit summary, rm all but Gilmour as domestic partners, ch Gilmour to spouse
* Xan747 ✈️ 🧑✈️ 19:14, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
* I spotted that :) Andrew Dalby 21:07, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
* I spotted that :) Andrew Dalby 21:07, 11 August 2023 (UTC) | WIKI |
Hungary to Tax Salty, Sugary Food and Drink, Vilaggazdasag Says
Hungary is planning to tax food and
drink containing excessive amounts of salt and sugar starting
next year, Vilaggazdasag reported, citing a draft government
document. The government plans to raise 20 billion forint ($110
million) to 30 billion forint from the tax, the newspaper said. Revenue from the tax will be used for health care, the
newspaper said. The levy will apply to products such as ice tea and other
soft drinks, ice cream, cookies and food containing large
amounts of salt, the newspaper added. Editors: James Kraus To contact the reporter on this story:
Andras Gergely in Budapest
agergely@bloomberg.net . To contact the editor responsible for this story:
Gavin Serkin at gserkin@bloomberg.net | NEWS-MULTISOURCE |
Northern Cyprus–Turkey relations
The Northern Cyprus–Turkey relations refer to the bilateral relationship between the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) and the Republic of Turkey. These relations are characterized by historical, cultural, and political ties, as well as economic cooperation and shared strategic interests.
Historical background
The roots of the close relationship between Northern Cyprus and Republic of Turkey can be traced back to the Cyprus conflict and subsequent events. Following intercommunal violence between Greek and Turkish Cypriots in the 1960s and the coup d'état by Greek nationalists in 1974, Turkey intervened militarily on the island, leading to the de facto division of Cyprus into the Greek Cypriot-controlled Republic of Cyprus and the Turkish Cypriot-administered TRNC in the northern part of the island. Since then, Turkey has been a key supporter of the Turkish Cypriot community, providing political, economic, and military assistance.
Political relations
Political relations between Northern Cyprus and Turkey are characterized by Turkey's unwavering support for the TRNC's political status and recognition. Turkey is one of the few countries that officially recognize the TRNC as a sovereign state. High-level visits between officials of both countries are common, reflecting the close ties and cooperation on various regional and international issues.
Economic cooperation
Economic cooperation between Northern Cyprus and Turkey is substantial and multifaceted. Turkey is Northern Cyprus's largest trading partner, providing significant financial aid and investment in infrastructure projects, education, and healthcare. Trade agreements and economic partnerships between the two entities facilitate the exchange of goods and services, contributing to the economic development of Northern Cyprus.
Cultural and social ties
Cultural and social ties between Northern Cyprus and Turkey are deeply rooted in shared history, language, and ethnicity. Many Turkish Cypriots have familial ties to Turkey, and cultural exchanges, educational programs, and tourism further strengthen these bonds. Turkish culture, language, and media have a significant presence in Northern Cyprus, reflecting the close cultural affinity between the two entities.
Security cooperation
Security cooperation between Northern Cyprus and Turkey is crucial for maintaining stability and security in the region. Turkey provides military support and security guarantees to the TRNC, ensuring its defense and protection. Military cooperation agreements between Turkey and Northern Cyprus facilitate joint exercises, training programs, and defense cooperation, enhancing the security capabilities of both entities.
International recognition and diplomacy
Despite Turkey's recognition of the TRNC, the international community largely considers Northern Cyprus as part of the Republic of Cyprus. Turkey continues to advocate for the TRNC's recognition and participation in international organizations, citing the need for a comprehensive and fair solution to the Cyprus issue that respects the rights and interests of both communities. | WIKI |
Wild-Eyed Southern Boys
Wild-Eyed Southern Boys is the fourth studio album by American Southern rock band .38 Special, released on January 3, 1981, by A&M Records. The album spawned the hit single "Hold On Loosely", which remains a staple track of classic rock, as well as the group's discography. The album reached No. 23 on the Canadian charts. A remastered CD, with four bonus live tracks, was reissued by Rock Candy Records in September 2023.
Critical reception
Record World said that the single "Fantasy Girl" has a "smooth vocal and a virtuoso guitar display."
Track listing
* 1) "Hold On Loosely" (Don Barnes, Jim Peterik, Jeff Carlisi) – 4:39
* 2) "First Time Around" (Barnes, Carlisi, Larry Steele, Donnie Van Zant) – 3:59
* 3) "Wild-Eyed Southern Boys" (Peterik) – 4:18
* 4) "Back Alley Sally" (Carlisi, Van Zant) – 3:11
* 5) "Fantasy Girl" (Carlisi, Peterik) – 4:06
* 6) "Hittin' and Runnin'" (Barnes, Peterik) – 4:55
* 7) "Honky Tonk Dancer" (Barnes, Steele, Van Zant) – 4:59
* 8) "Throw Out the Line" (Barnes, Carlisi, Van Zant) – 3:45
* 9) "Bring It On" (Carlisi, Steele, Van Zant) – 5:38
Personnel
* Donnie Van Zant – lead vocals (2–4, 7–9), backing vocals
* Don Barnes – rhythm and lead guitar, piano (3), lead vocals (1, 3, 5, 6), backing vocals
* Jeff Carlisi – lead and rhythm guitar, steel guitar
* Larry Junstrom – bass
* Steve Brookins – drums
* Jack Grondin – drums
Additional personnel
* Steve McRay – piano (4, 6, 7)
* Terry Emery – percussion
* Carol Bristow – backing vocals
* Lu Moss – backing vocals
* Carol Veto – backing vocals
Production
* Rodney Mills – producer, engineer
* Greg Quesnel – engineer
* Bob Ludwig – mastering at Masterdisk (New York City, New York)
* Chuck Beeson – art direction, design
* Mick McGinty – illustrations
* Willardson & White, Inc. – illustrations
* Paddy Reynolds – sleeve photography | WIKI |
Talk:Le Courrier du Sud
The newspaper's owner is not right
I just saw that this newspaper was sold by Transcontinental (see : the end of this article)
I don't know who the new owner is but it's not Transcontinental anymore. I'd research it more but I don't have the time right now.
<IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC) Larry | WIKI |
Why the old Equal Rights Amendment is not viable | TheHill
Equal Rights Amendment resolutions have been introduced in nearly every Congress since 1923. This session of Congress is no different. There was a hearing on the Equal Rights Amendment in the House today. Some will try to tell you that ratification is just around the corner. However, the Equal Rights Amendment they are talking about no longer exists. That has not stopped the Alice Paul Institute, for example, from talking up its own “three state strategy” for ratifying the 1972 Equal Rights Amendment. It was put before the states and approved by 35 of the 38 states necessary for ratification. Nearly four decades later, activists persuaded Nevada and Illinois to ratify it, leaving the amendment just one state shy of being added to the Constitution. Or so the Equal Rights Amendment activists would like you to believe. But it just is not so. Here are five reasons why the Equal Rights Amendment sent to the states in 1972 is no longer viable. First, it left Congress with a deadline of seven years for state ratification. The clock ran out on the 1972 Equal Rights Amendment with 35 states on board. The activists want you to ignore that fact. Second, Congress later passed and President Carter signed in 1978 an extension to 1982. The activists want you to ignore that deadline too. The Congressional Research Service notes that this extension actually “suggests that an unending ratification period may not be permissible.”In other words, the extension that Equal Rights Amendment supporters sought in 1978 undercuts their position today that both ratification deadlines are invalid. Moreover, no additional states ratified the Equal Rights Amendment between 1979 and the end of the extended ratification deadline in 1982. Third, five states that initially ratified the Equal Rights Amendment wound up rescinding their approval before the original deadline of seven years. Activists claim the rescissions are invalid and should be ignored, but it is not that simple. Article V of the Constitution provides that amendments may be proposed by a convention called by Congress “on the application of the legislatures to two thirds of the several states.” It has been debated whether a state may make and then rescind a convention application. Many of the same groups endorsing the Equal Rights Amendment signed a letter last month urging state legislatures to “rescind any application”for an Article V convention. Three of the five states that had rescinded their Equal Rights Amendment ratification in the 1970s later rescinded their applications for an Article V convention. It is hard to argue that states may change their minds about convention but not a proposed amendment. Fourth, Equal Rights Amendment activists like to point out that the 27th Amendment, the most recent addition to the Constitution, was proposed in 1789 but not finally ratified until May 1992. What is the 47 years since Congress sent the Equal Rights Amendment to the states, they ask, as compared to the 203 years between proposal and ratification of the 27th Amendment? On this issue, however, there is a distinction with a very big difference in that the 27th Amendment had no ratification deadline. Fifth, several court decisions undermine the notion that the Equal Rights Amendment sent to the states in 1972 is still alive. The Supreme Court decided Dillon versus Gloss in 1921, two years before the first Equal Rights Amendment was proposed. As the Congressional Research Service had summarized it, the justices held that the “ratification of a constitutional amendment should occur within a reasonable time after the amendment is proposed.” That case involved the 18th Amendment which, like the 1972 Equal Rights Amendment, had a ratification deadline of seven years. In the 1939 decision in Coleman versus Miller, the Supreme Court held that a variety of factors help determine a “reasonable time”to ratify an amendment to the Constitution. Most importantly, though, the justices said that Congress, not the courts, should make that decision. Congress did just that in 1972 and 1978, determining that a maximum of 10 years was enough to establish that three fourths of the states wanted the Equal Rights Amendment in the Constitution. The reality is that they did not. In the 1982 decision in Idaho versus Freeman, a district court held that the original Equal Rights Amendment ratification deadline was constitutional. The deadline extension itself was unconstitutional, and the ratifications rescissions are valid. The Supreme Court vacated this decision when the 1982 ratification deadline passed and rendered the case moot. But the justices did not address the merits of the conclusions of the lower court. Perhaps the activists will have better luck with the number of Equal Rights Amendment resolutions introduced this year. But it is simply fiction that the Equal Rights Amendment proposed during the 92nd Congress is still on the confirmation track today. It has been dead for at least 37 years. Thomas Jipping is a senior legal fellow and deputy director of the Edwin Meese Center for Legal and Judicial Studies at the Heritage Foundation. View the discussion thread. The Hill 1625 K Street, NW Suite 900 Washington DC 20006 | 202-628-8500 tel | 202-628-8503 fax The contents of this site are ©2019 Capitol Hill Publishing Corp., a subsidiary of News Communications, Inc. | NEWS-MULTISOURCE |
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Frequently asked questions
Below is a list of the most commonly asked questions about the device. If you do not find the answer to your question here, please email us for more information.
femooi Nano Meso Scalp Care Device Usage
What is the duration of a single treatment session?
• For Nano Meso Mode, the treatment on a single area should not exceed 3 minutes. You can adjust according to the usage area.
• For Daily Care Mode, a full head massage can be done, lasting up to 10 minutes.
Do I need to use the entire serum bottle at once, or can it be used multiple times?
The serum can be used multiple times, generally lasting 1-2 weeks, depending on individual use. There is no need to repeatedly remove the serum bottle after each use until the liquid inside is fully used up. Please replace the bottle promptly when it is empty.
Can the needle chip be used multiple times?
The needle chip is for single-use only. Prolonged storage after opening can lead to bacterial growth and infection. Do not reuse it.
Can the Nano Meso Mode of the femooi Scalp Care Device be used daily?
It is recommended not to use it more than once every two days. Three times a week is optimal, but you can adjust the frequency according to your scalp condition.
Can the Daily Care Mode of the femooi Scalp Care Device be used daily?
Yes, it can be used daily. Daily use is helpful to massage and soothe the scalp, and can enhance the care effects.
Who should not use the femooi Scalp Care Device?
• During pregnancy or breastfeeding
• Individuals under 16 years old
• Those with scalp inflammation or skin cancer on the scalp
• Those with head wounds, who have undergone surgery, or have metal implants
• Those with allergic constitutions, sensitive or fragile skin
• Individuals with a history of photosensitivity to the wavelengths emitted by this product
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• Those with capillary dilation due to long-term use of steroids, hormones, or liver dysfunction
• Those taking photosensitive drugs, such as griseofulvin, ofloxacin, hydrochlorothiazide, etc.
• Those using medical devices such as artificial lungs, pacemakers, internal defibrillators, or portable devices like ECG monitors.
Why does not the indicator light of the femooi Scalp Care Device blink after connecting the charging cable?
The charging cable or power plug of the femooi Scalp Care Device is not properly connected.
Why does not the femooi Scalp Care Device respond after pressing the mode button?
• It is turned off. Please press and hold the power button for 1 second to turn it on.
• The battery is depleted. Please recharge promptly.
• The EMS metal pins are not in contact with the skin. Ensure the operation head is perpendicular to the scalp surface and all 4 EMS metal pins are touching the scalp.
• The Daily Care Mode has a 3-second delay start mechanism.
Why can't the femooi Scalp Care Device connect to the mobile app?
• The femooi Scalp Care Device is turned off. Please press and hold the power button for 1 second to turn it on.
• The device has not been added to your femooi Account. Activate the device in the femooi app and follow the instructions to connect via Bluetooth.
• The phone’s Bluetooth is not turned on. Please enable Bluetooth.
• There is a temporary malfunction in the microprocessor. Please restart.
• Bluetooth permissions are not authorized in the iOS or Android system. Please grant authorization.
Why doesn't the femooi Scalp Care Device work after being turned on or used for a while?
• The battery is depleted. Please recharge promptly.
• People with dry skin may occasionally experience insensitivity. It is recommended to wash the scalp and hair, towel-dry to semi-dry, or use a wet wipe to clean the area before use.
• The EMS metal pins are not in contact with the scalp. Separate the hair, ensure the operation head is perpendicular to the scalp surface, and make sure all 4 EMS metal pins are touching the scalp.
• The device has an overuse protection setting. After 3 minutes of continuous use in Nano Meso Mode or 10 minutes in Daily Care Mode, the device will stop all functions and enter idle mode, with the mode button indicator turning red. To continue using, simply select the mode again.
• The Daily Care Mode has a 3-second delay start mechanism.
Why does the femooi Scalp Care Device start operating in Nano Meso Mode without touching the skin after selecting the mode?
• The device has a smart touch sensor system. There might be serum or water droplets left on the EMS metal pins resulting in a false detection. Please wipe the operation head and EMS metal pins with a tissue or dry towel.
• The interior of the device head is wet. Please clean the head, let it dry completely, cover it, and place it upright for 24 hours before retrying.
• There is a temporary malfunction in the microprocessor. Please restart.
Why does no serum come out during the use of the device?
• The serum bottle is newly installed and unused. Please press and hold the mode button for 4 seconds to fill the serum before use.
• The serum bottle is empty. Please replace it with a new one.
• The serum bottle is not installed correctly and is loose. Please follow the “Serum Bottle Installation Guide” in the product manual to install it correctly before use.
• The serum flow is turned off in the app settings. Please enable serum flow in the app.
• After prolonged storage without timely emptying, residual serum can cause blockages. Please use the app to select the device unclogging function to clear the blockage.
• In Daily Care Mode, serum flow is turned off by default. If you need to use serum during Daily Care Mode, please enable it in the settings.
• In Nano Meso Mode, to prevent excess serum flow causing drips, the device only dispenses serum when it first makes contact. For multiple dispensations, simply lift and press the device against the scalp again.
Can the femooi Scalp Care Device get clogged by serum?
• The device is specially designed to prevent serum clogging during normal use. For better user experience, if you do not plan to use the device for a long time, please remove the serum bottle and press and hold the mode button for 4 seconds to empty the liquid in the device’s pipes to avoid blockages from long-term inactivity.
How to clean the femooi Scalp Care Device?
• It is recommended to wipe the device head with an alcohol pad after each use.
What are the differences between the three modes of the femooi Scalp Care Device?
• In Nano Meso Mode, EMS works in conjunction with low-energy laser (LLLT), serum, and Nano Meso for strong serum infusion, ideal for targeted area treatment. The low and high levels affect the scalp in the same way, only differing in serum infusion intensity. In Daily Care Mode, EMS and low-energy laser work together to repeatedly massage the scalp, effectively relaxing it.
What are there recommended vibration and EMS levels?
• For first-time users and those with sensitive scalps, it is recommended to use the low level and gradually increase as you adapt.
• You can also adjust the level intensity according to your scalp’s tolerance.
How long should the serum in the bottle be used after opening?
• To ensure effectiveness and the activity of nutrients, it is recommended to use the serum within one month after opening.
Will there be any pain during the use of the device?
• The needle chip may cause a slight pricking sensation on the scalp, but it should not cause severe pain. If the pain is intense, it might be due to EMS stimulation of the scalp. You can adjust the Nano Meso Mode level and EMS intensity level in the app to a comfortable range.
What if I don't feel the serum coming out during the use of the device?
• When the scalp is moist, properly pressing the device in Nano Meso Mode will dispense the serum. To avoid excessive serum flow from prolonged use on a single area, the Nano Meso Mode is programmed to dispense serum only once when first pressed. Use the correct pressing technique and avoid pressing too quickly. You can hear a “pump” sound when the EMS metal pins first make contact with the scalp, indicating serum release. Additionally, Daily Care Mode does not dispense serum by default; you can enable serum dispensing in the app.
Can the femooi Scalp Care Device be used with other scalp serums?
• Yes, the device can be used with other scalp serums. You can apply other scalp serums during the daily care period and use the device’s massage mode for daily scalp massage care after application.
Do I need to charge the femooi Scalp Care Device before use? How long should the first charge be?
• It is recommended to charge the new device before use. The first charge should take about 4 hours to fully charge the device.
How long does it take to see results from using the femooi Scalp Care Device?
• The har care effects of the device have been professionally tested by third-party testing agencies. According to real user test results, after 4 weeks of consistent use, you can notice a significant reduction in hair loss, improved hair greasiness, and a healthier scalp environment. After 8 weeks, you can notice a narrowing of hair parting and an increase in new fine hair at the hairline. | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Cindy la Regia
Cindy la Regia is a 2020 Mexican comedy film directed by Catalina Aguilar Mastretta, and Santiago Limón. Ricardo Cucamonga created the character that inspired the film, which stars Cassandra Sánchez Navarro as the lead. It premiered on 24 January 2020 and grossed $106 million pesos in its theatrical run in Mexico, placing it among the country's highest-grossing produced films of all time.
Plot
As the story unfolds, we follow the journey of Cindy (Cassandra Sánchez Navarro), a privileged young woman from San Pedro, Nuevo Leon, who runs away from her home and her boyfriend, El Gran Partidazo, to Mexico City. In the capital, she finds new friendships and unexpected opportunities, and she realizes that her potential is far greater than she ever realized.
Cast
* Cassandra Sánchez Navarro as Cindy La Regia
* Regina Blandón as Angie
* Diana Bovio as Estrella
* Roberto Quijano as Gus
* Marianna Burelli as Laura
* Giuseppe Gamba as Mateo
* Mayra Batalla as Mary
* Nicolasa Ortíz Monasterio as Rox
* Diego Amozurrutia as Eduardo
* Isela Vega as Mercedes | WIKI |
OOPortal
OO Problem Analysis «Prev Next»
Lesson 1
Domain Problem Analysis
Welcome to Object-Oriented Analysis II: Problem Analysis, the second course in the Object-Oriented Analysis and Design Fundamentals Series.
This course covers the problem analysis phase of the software development project life cycle. You will use the work products you created in the first course (which covered the project initiation phase) as the basis of your problem domain analysis in this course. These work products include:
1. Data dictionary
2. Use case diagrams
3. Activity diagrams
Course goals
After completing this course, you will have the knowledge and skills to:
1. Build class diagrams
2. Build object diagrams to test your class diagrams
3. Build sequence diagrams
4. Identify interfaces using the sequence diagrams
5. Add interfaces to the class diagram
6. Test your analysis for completeness and correctness
The series
Object-Oriented Analysis II: Problem Analysis is the second course in the Object-Oriented Analysis and Design Fundamentals series.
This series is designed to teach you practical object-oriented business analysis. You will learn how to fully define the
1. scope,
2. requirements,
3. analysis and
4. design
for a business application using object-oriented models and techniques.
Problem domain analysis is completely independent of solution domain constructs, and is therefore eminently reusable.
Once the problem domain analysis is performed for a business domain, it can be applied to different technologies over time as technology changes.
Analysis and Design
Analysis and design are the first steps in the development of a software system. Analysis is the process of gathering software requirements and recording them in a standardized format that can be translated into design. Customers, managers, and end-users speak a different language than software engineers. Analysis bridges the gap between those who will use a software system and those who will design and code a software system. Design is the process of translating the output of analysis into a blueprint for the actual coding of a software system. Like a blueprint for a building, the design will show enough detail to allow a diverse group of managers and programmers to develop the system concurrently.
The focus of this course is on analysis and design. However, analysis and design do not exist in a vacuum; they are part of a larger process of developing object-oriented software. A development methodology details the entire process of software development, from gathering requirements to design, coding, and deployment. To fully understand the roles of analysis and design in the software development process, they will be taught in the context of the Unified Software Development Process, or Unified Process. | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Namespaces
Types
Type MersenneTwisterRandomSource
Namespace MathNet.Numerics.RandomSources
Parent RandomSource
Methods
Properties
Public instance methods
bool Equals(object obj)
Parameters
return bool
object obj
int GetHashCode()
Parameters
return int
Type GetType()
Parameters
return Type
bool NextBoolean()
Returns a random Boolean value.
Buffers 32 random bits (1 uint) for future calls, so a new random number is only generated every 32 calls.
Parameters
return bool
void NextBytes(Byte[] buffer)
Parameters
Byte[] buffer
double NextDouble()
Returns a nonnegative floating point random number less than 1.0.
Parameters
return double
double NextDouble(double maxValue)
Returns a nonnegative floating point random number less than the specified maximum.
Parameters
return double
double maxValue The exclusive upper bound of the random number to be generated. must be greater than or equal to 0.0.
double NextDouble(double minValue, double maxValue)
Returns a floating point random number within the specified range.
Parameters
return double
double minValue The inclusive lower bound of the random number to be generated. The range between and must be less than or equal toMaxValue
double maxValue The exclusive upper bound of the random number to be generated. must be greater than or equal to . The range between and must be less than or equal toMaxValue.
int NextInclusiveMaxValue()
Returns a nonnegative random number less than or equal to MaxValue.
Parameters
return int
uint NextUInt()
Returns an unsigned random number.
Parameters
return uint
void Reset()
Resets the MersenneTwisterRandomSource, so that it produces the same pseudo-random number sequence again.
string ToString()
Parameters
return string
Public properties
bool CanReset get;
Gets a value indicating whether the MersenneTwisterRandomSource can be reset, so that it produces the same pseudo-random number sequence again.
return bool | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
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open an mdb or accdb in arcpro sdk
551
2
10-06-2023 07:17 AM
ToddDoerr1
New Contributor
I'm migrating a Desktop Add-in to ArcPro.
The code opens an .mdb file using adodb and reads and writes to it.
I can't get any of the COM Microsoft ActiveX Data Objects (adodb) libraries to work with the 'ArcGIS Pro Module Add-in' template. I get the same error with all versions when I try to open my connection:
"Provider cannot be found. It may not be properly installed."
Changing the ADODB --> 'Embed Interop Type' property to 'No' doesn't help either. I still get the same error.
Any ideas how I can open an mdb (or even an accdb) file using the ArcGIS Pro sdk?
0 Kudos
2 Replies
SteveCole
Frequent Contributor
At the risk of telling you something you already know, ESRI doesn't directly support MS Access in Pro but it is technically possible using OLE connections. ESRI has a blog post about this so I think you'll need to find the appropriate SDK bits that accomplish what is described in the blog post.
0 Kudos
Wolf
by Esri Regular Contributor
Esri Regular Contributor
This article explains the reasons why support for personal geodatabases was dropped with ArcGIS Pro: It's Not Personal: A quick history of the geodatabase and why personal geodatabases are not in ArcGI...
What release of ArcGIS Pro are you using? You can write a 'Plug-in Datasource' extension using the Pro SDK to implement a reader for your .MDB access database (aka 'personal geodatabase'). 'Plug-in Datasources' only allow read access to the data and hence there is no easy way to write to an access database.
I would suggest writing your ArcGIS Pro add-in so that it reads and writes to a File Geodatabase instead of the old 'personal geodatabase'.
Let me know if you're interested in the 'personal geodatabase Plug-in DataSource' for ArcGIS Pro. I can probably find the code for that. I think the Plug-in DataSource is using this NuGet to access the .MDB files:
NuGet Gallery | System.Data.OleDb 7.0.0 This will work in you x64 Add-in but is limited to access of tabular data only (no spatial data).
0 Kudos | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Our Blog
Our Blog
Why Choose Permanent Dental Bridges for Tooth Replacement?
October 18, 2023
Tooth loss is a common dental concern, affecting millions of people worldwide. Fortunately, various options are available to replace missing teeth and restore your smile. This article will explore why choosing a permanent dental bridge for tooth replacement can be a smart decision for dental patients seeking lasting results and improved oral health.
Why-Choose-Permanent-Dental-Bridges-for-Tooth-Replacement
Understanding Dental Bridges
Before delving into the reasons to choose dental bridges, it’s essential to understand what they are. A dental bridge, meticulously designed for your unique smile, elegantly features one or more synthetic teeth, referred to as pontics, solidly affixed to adjacent natural teeth or dental implants. This crafted piece not only enhances your smile but also graciously bridges the gap where teeth may be missing. These bridges fill the gap from missing teeth, offering functional and aesthetic benefits.
Restores Dental Functionality
One of the primary reasons to choose dental bridges is their ability to restore dental functionality. The loss of a tooth can subtly disrupt your ability to chew effectively, gently steering you toward dietary limitations and possible digestive challenges. The journey from a wholesome bite to digestion can be seamlessly eased with attentive dental solutions. A dental bridge effectively replaces the missing tooth, allowing you to bite, chew, and speak naturally without discomfort or limitations.
Preserves Facial Aesthetics
Tooth loss can gradually transform facial aesthetics. When a tooth is absent, adjacent teeth may subtly migrate or lean into the void, subtly reshaping your facial contours. Dental bridges maintain the alignment of adjacent teeth, preserving your natural facial contours and smile aesthetics.
Longevity and Durability
Dental bridges are renowned for their longevity and durability. When properly cared for, they can last for many years, providing a long-term solution for tooth replacement. This durability ensures you can enjoy your dental bridge’s benefits without frequent replacements or repairs.
Prevents Dental Complications
Leaving a gap created by a missing tooth untreated can lead to various dental complications. The nearby teeth could become more prone to cavities and gum issues, while the jawbone might weaken because it’s not properly stimulated. Dental bridges help prevent these issues by filling the gap and promoting oral health.
Comfort and Stability
Unlike removable dental appliances, dental bridges offer stability and comfort. They are fixed in place and feel like natural teeth, eliminating the potential for discomfort or irritation associated with removable options.
Efficient and Convenient
Getting dental bridges is an efficient and convenient process. The treatment typically requires fewer dental visits compared to other tooth replacement options. Once the bridge is in place, you can resume your daily activities with minimal disruption.
Enhanced Confidence
Tooth loss can impact your self-confidence and self-esteem. Dental bridges provide a reliable solution that looks and feels natural, helping you regain confidence in your smile and overall appearance.
Simple Maintenance
Upholding the condition of dental bridges is simple and uncomplicated. Consistent brushing, flossing, and attending regular dental check-ups ensure both your bridge and adjacent teeth remain in pristine condition.
Customized Solutions
Each dental bridge is custom-made to match your natural teeth’ color, size, and shape. It ensures a seamless and aesthetically pleasing result that blends seamlessly with your smile.
Expert Dental Bridges Near Me
If you’re considering dental bridges, you must search for dental bridges near me. Expert dental bridges provide functional and aesthetic benefits, restoring your smile’s natural beauty and function. Consider consulting with a trusted dental provider to explore your tooth replacement options and discover the ideal solution. The revitalization of your smile might be just around the corner.
The Process of Getting Permanent Dental Bridges
1. Consultation: In your first consultation, your dentist will assess your oral health, explore various tooth replacement strategies with you, and ascertain whether dental bridges are a fitting solution for your needs.
2. Tooth Preparation: If dental bridges are chosen, the dentist will prepare the abutment teeth (adjacent to the gap). It involves removing a small portion of enamel to accommodate the dental crowns.
3. Impressions: To create custom-made dental bridges that fit perfectly in your mouth, the dentist will take impressions of your teeth.
4. Temporary Bridges: While a dental laboratory crafts dental bridges, your dentist may provide temporary ones to protect the prepared teeth.
5. Placement: Once the dental bridges are ready, your dentist will remove the temporary ones and place the permanent ones using dental cement or bonding.
6. Adjustments: Your dentist will make necessary adjustments to ensure your bite is comfortable and your dental bridges fit correctly.
Caring for Permanent Dental Bridges
• Oral Hygiene: Ensure the longevity and cleanliness of your dental bridges by embracing a routine of regular brushing and flossing, safeguarding against gum disease and decay.
• Dental Check-ups: Schedule regular dental check-ups to ensure your dental bridges remain in good condition and make any necessary repairs.
• Dietary Choices: While dental bridges are robust, it’s wise to steer clear of exceptionally hard or sticky foods to prevent potential damage and ensure their longevity.
Conclusion
Selecting an optimal dental care provider is pivotal for maintaining oral health. At Peak Dental – North Austin, specializing in crafting dental bridges in North Austin, TX, we’re here to assist you on your journey toward a healthier smile. With a commitment to quality care and a focus on your dental needs, we offer a range of services, including dental bridges, to enhance your smile and well-being.
Take a step towards a radiant, confident smile today by scheduling an appointment with us. Don’t let dental concerns linger any longer. Your journey towards optimal dental health is in expert hands in our care.
Click to listen highlighted text! | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
[No. A110074.
First Dist., Div. Three.
Oct. 6, 2006.]
STOP LOSS INSURANCE BROKERS, INC., et al., Cross-complainant and Appellant, v. BROWN & TOLAND MEDICAL GROUP, Cross-defendant and Respondent.
Counsel
Jones, Bell, Abbott, Fleming & Fitzgerald, Michael J. Abbott, John L. Erikson, Jr., William M. Turner and Jill M. Buresh for Cross-complainant and Appellant.
Hanson, Bridgett, Marcus, Vlahos & Rudy, Michael A. Duncheon and Jahmal T. Davis for Cross-defendant and Respondent.
Opinion
McGUINESS, P. J.
After it was sued for breach of contract and negligence by the Regents of the University of California (Regents), Stop Loss Insurance Brokers, Inc. (Stop Loss), filed a cross-complaint for comparative indemnity against Brown & Toland Medical Group (BTMG). Following two rounds of amendments, the trial court sustained a demurrer to the cross-complaint without leave to amend. We affirm the judgment.
BACKGROUND
As operator of the University of California at San Francisco Medical Center (UCSF Medical Center), the Regents participated in a capitated health cafe program, through which they contracted with various health care plans to provide services for patients in exchange for fixed, or “capitated,” payments. Such payments were made to the Regents through BTMG, and UCSF Medical Center was a designated hospital provider for BTMG plan members. Hospitals participating in this capitated health care program were required to carry insurance coverage for charges exceeding a fixed amount. In March 2000, the Regents sought bids from insurance brokers to obtain the necessary insurance coverage. Shortly thereafter, the Regents retained Stop Loss and instructed it to procure a $ 1 -million-per-claim insurance policy.
Under the policy Stop Loss procured, the Regents were required to notify the insurer of any potential and actual claims exceeding 50 percent of the policy’s deductible. BTMG and Stop Loss worked together to provide this information to the insurer on a monthly basis. Every month, BTMG analyzed the Regents’ claims to identify the ones that required notice to the insurer. BTMG sent this information to Stop Loss, and Stop Loss prepared the necessary claims forms. Stop Loss then sent the forms to BTMG for approval, and, once approved, BTMG forwarded the forms to the insurer for payment.
In 2001, a new insurance policy Stop Loss had procured expressly precluded coverage for any preexisting claim not disclosed by the Regents. The Regents signed a binder that purported to disclose all reportable claims, but unbeknownst to them the binder did not include a disclosure of the claim made by a BTMG plan member who had been repeatedly hospitalized for renal failure. When this patient’s claim was submitted to the insurer for payment later in 2001, it was denied.
On October 6, 2003, the Regents filed a complaint against Stop Loss for breach of contract and negligence. The Regents alleged BTMG had submitted timely information to Stop Loss about the patient’s renal failure claim but Stop Loss failed to prepare the form for reporting it in a timely fashion. As a result, the complaint claimed Stop Loss breached its contractual agreement with the Regents and also breached its professional duty of care as the Regents’ insurance broker, causing the Regents to suffer a loss of over $1 million in unreimbursed expenses for the claim.
Stop Loss answered the complaint and filed a cross-complaint against BTMG. After the trial court sustained a demurrer to this pleading, Stop Loss filed a second amended cross-complaint against BTMG for comparative equitable indemnity and declaratory relief. In it, Stop Loss described the procedure it had established with BTMG to report claims to the Regents’ insurer, though it noted this system “was not established pursuant to a contract.” Because BTMG knew its failure to analyze claims properly and submit information to Stop Loss in a timely fashion could result in the denial of insurance coverage for such claims, the cross-complaint alleged “BTMG owed a duty to [the Regents] to analyze claims properly, provide claims information to Stop Loss timely, and submit claim forms to the reinsurer timely.” (Fn. omitted.) Stop Loss alleged BTMG breached this duty to the Regents because it did not make Stop Loss aware of the subject claim until well after the Regents had signed the disclosure form for the new insurance policy. As a result, the cross-complaint claimed BTMG was obligated to partially or fully indemnify Stop Loss for any damages it might be compelled to pay to the Regents. The trial court sustained a demurrer to Stop Loss’s second amended cross-complaint without leave to amend, noting the cross-complaint “fail[ed] to state sufficient facts to give rise to a duty owed by BTMG to [the Regents] sounding in tort.” This appeal followed.
DISCUSSION
“In reviewing the sufficiency of a complaint against a general demurrer, we are guided by long-settled rules. ‘We treat the demurrer as admitting all material facts properly pleaded, but not contentions, deductions or conclusions of fact or law. [Citation.] We also consider matters which may be judicially noticed.’ [Citation.] Further, we give the complaint a reasonable interpretation, reading it as a whole and its parts in their context. [Citation.] When a demurrer is sustained, we determine whether the complaint states facts sufficient to constitute a cause of action. [Citation.] And when it is sustained without leave to amend, we decide whether there is a reasonable possibility that the defect can be cured by amendment: if it can be, the trial court has abused its discretion and we reverse; if not, there has been no abuse of discretion and we affirm. [Citations.] The burden of proving such reasonable possibility is squarely on the plaintiff. [Citation.]” (Blank v. Kirwan (1985) 39 Cal.3d 311, 318 [216 Cal.Rptr. 718, 703 P.2d 58].)
It is well settled in California that equitable indemnity is only available among tortfeasors who are jointly and severally liable for the plaintiff’s injury. (Leko v. Cornerstone Bldg. Inspection Service (2001) 86 Cal.App.4th 1109, 1115 [103 Cal.Rptr.2d 858]; Munoz v. Davis (1983) 141 Cal.App.3d 420, 425 [190 Cal.Rptr. 400].) With limited exception, there must be some basis for tort liability against the proposed indemnitor. (Munoz v. Davis, supra, 141 Cal.App.3d at p. 425.) “Generally, it is based on a duty owed to the underlying plaintiff [citations], although vicarious liability [citation] and strict liability [citation] also may sustain application of equitable indemnity. In addition, implied contractual indemnity between the indemnitor and the indemnitee can provide a basis for equitable indemnity. [Citation.]” (BFGC Architects Planners, Inc. v. Forcum/Mackey Construction, Inc. (2004) 119 Cal.App.4th 848, 852 [14 Cal.Rptr.3d 721].)
The cross-complaint here does not allege vicarious or strict liability, nor an implied contractual obligation for BTMG to indemnify Stop Loss. Rather, after describing the process by which BTMG and Stop Loss analyzed claims and gave notice to the insurer, and alleging BTMG understood the consequences that could result from the failure to disclose a qualifying claim to the insurer, the cross-complaint simply asserts, “BTMG owed a duty to Plaintiff [the Regents] to analyze claims properly, provide claims information to Stop Loss timely, and submit claims forms to the reinsurer timely.” Asserting this legal conclusion does not make it so, however. The question is whether, with respect to the claims analysis, BTMG owed the Regents a duty of care sounding in tort. While the cross-complaint alleges that “BTMG . . . assumed and understood its duties” under the parties’ system for disclosing claims, this obligation could only have arisen out of the business relationship between BTMG and the Regents. The law imposes no duty on strangers to promptly process another’s data that is comparable to the duty imposed on all persons to exercise due care to avoid injuring others. (See, e.g., Quelimane Co. v. Stewart Title Guaranty Co. (1998) 19 Cal.4th 26, 59 [77 Cal.Rptr.2d 709, 960 P.2d 513] [“With rare exceptions, a business entity has no duty to prevent financial loss to others with whom it deals directly”].) At most, if BTMG assumed a duty to process claims in a timely fashion, and the Regents relied on BTMG to do so, BTMG’s performance was undertaken pursuant to an implied contract.
“A person may not ordinarily recover in tort for the breach of duties that merely restate contractual obligations. Instead, 6 “[c]ourts will generally enforce the breach of a contractual promise through contract law, except when the actions that constitute the breach violate a social policy that merits the imposition of tort remedies.” ’ [Citation.]” (Aas v. Superior Court (2000) 24 Cal.4th 627, 643 [101 Cal.Rptr.2d 718, 12 P.3d 1125], superseded by statute on another ground as stated in Rosen v. State Farm General Ins. Co. (2003) 30 Cal.4th 1070, 1079-1080 [135 Cal.Rptr.2d 361, 70 P.3d 351].) Despite the cross-complaint’s use of negligence terminology, the alleged misconduct by BTMG describes, at most, a breach of contract, not a breach of a legal duty of care. In short, “This is an improper attempt to recast a breach of contract cause of action as a tort claim. Nor is there any social policy that would demand resort to tort remedies. Without any action sounding in tort, there is no basis for a finding of potential joint and several liability on the part of [cross-]defendant [BTMG], thereby precluding a claim for equitable indemnity.” (BFGC Architects Planners, Inc. v. Forcum/Mackey Construction, Inc., supra, 119 Cal.App.4th at p. 853.)
Nevertheless, Stop Loss argues a duty of care on the part of BTMG can be inferred from the factors outlined in Biakanja v. Irving (1958) 49 Cal.2d 647, 650 [320 P.2d 16] (Biakanja), and applied in J’Aire Corp. v. Gregory (1979) 24 Cal.3d 799, 804 [157 Cal.Rptr. 407, 598 P.2d 60] (J’Aire). These cases are distinguishable, however, and they do not support extending a tort duty to business parties’ arms-length dealings. In Biakanja, the defendant was a notary who owed a professional and a contractual duty to the client for whom he drafted a will (see Biakanja, supra, 49 Cal.2d at p. 648); in J’Aire, the defendant was a general contractor who owed a contractual duty to the owner of premises it was working to improve. (See J’Aire, supra, 24 Cal.3d at p. 802.) In both cases, the question was whether the defendant’s duty of care could be extended to a third party who was not in privity—i.e., the intended beneficiary of a will (Biakanja, supra, 49 Cal.2d at pp. 648-649) or the lessee of premises that were being improved (J’Aire, supra, 24 Cal.3d at p. 802). The Supreme Court held that whether a defendant owes a duty of care to third parties in such a situation depends upon a balancing of six factors: “(1) the extent to which the transaction was intended to affect the plaintiff, (2) the foreseeability of harm to the plaintiff, (3) the degree of certainty that the plaintiff suffered injury, (4) the closeness of the connection between the defendant’s conduct and the injury suffered, (5) the moral blame attached to the defendant’s conduct and (6) the policy of preventing future harm. [Citation.]” (J’Aire, supra, 24 Cal.3d at p. 804; see Biakanja, supra, 49 Cal.2d at p. 650.)
Contrary to Stop Loss’s assumption, courts have not applied the Biakanja factors to create broad tort duties in arms-length business dealings whenever it is convenient to resort to the law of negligence. Biakanja and J’Aire address the specific situation that arises when (1) the defendant was acting pursuant to a contract, and (2) the defendant’s negligent performance of the contract injures a third party. Neither of these prerequisites is met in this case. First, the cross-complaint alleges BTMG’s handling of the Regents’ claims was not undertaken pursuant to a contract. Second, and more importantly, even if one concludes BTMG was acting pursuant to an implied contract with the Regents, the cross-complaint does not allege BTMG injured any third party. Rather, Stop Loss claims BTMG’s negligent claims-handling injured the Regents by causing it to lose insurance coverage. As noted, the Regents may not recover in tort for BTMG’s breach of a contractual obligation. (See Aas v. Superior Court, supra, 24 Cal.4th at p. 643.) Invoking the Biakanja factors to create a tort duty in the absence of injury to a third party would circumvent this rule and blur the law’s distinction between contract and tort remedies. Stop Loss has cited no case holding a business entity owes a tort duty of care to prevent another business from suffering purely financial losses, and we decline to announce such a duty here.
Likewise, very little precedent supports our concurring colleague’s theory that equitable indemnity may be had based upon breach of an implied tort duty arising from negligent performance of an implied contract. (Conc, opn., post, at pp. 1056-1057, 1059-1062.) In North American Chemical Co. v. Superior Court (1997) 59 Cal.App.4th 764, 774 [69 Cal.Rptr.2d 466], the Court of Appeal described the common law duty contracting parties have to perform with reasonable care, skill, expedience and faithfulness, and stated that “the same wrongful act may constitute both a breach of contract and an invasion of an interest protected by the law of torts. [Citation.]” After quoting this statement from North American Chemical, the Supreme Court in Erlich v. Menezes qualified it by noting that “conduct amounting to a breach of contract becomes tortious only when it also violates a duty independent of the contract arising from principles of tort law. [Citation.] ‘ “ ‘An omission tó perform a contract obligation is never a tort, unless that omission is also an omission of a legal duty.’ ” ’ [Citation.]” (Erlich v. Menezes (1999) 21 Cal.4th 543, 551 [87 Cal.Rptr.2d 886, 981 P.2d 978], italics added.) The high court proceeded to the central question, “is the mere negligent breach of a contract sufficient?” and responded with an unequivocal “no.” (Id. at p. 552.) The court explained that the remedy for a breach of contract is generally limited to contract law, and recovery in tort is not permitted unless: “ ‘(1) [T]he breach is accompanied by a traditional common law tort, such as fraud or conversion; (2) the means used to breach the contract are tortious, involving deceit or undue coercion or; (3) one party intentionally breaches the contract intending or knowing that such a breach will cause severe, unmitigable harm in the form of mental anguish, personal hardship, or substantial consequential damages.’ [Citation.]” (Id. at pp. 553-554.)
Even though no implied contract was pleaded in the cross-complaint, nor the breach of any duty of care arising from such an implied contract, and even though the Supreme Court has expressly held that the negligent breach of such a duty does not give rise to tort damages, the concurring opinion argues breach of the common law duty discussed in North American Chemical can support a claim for equitable indemnity. The concurrence cites no authority for this position, but merely asserts that the policy reasons courts have resisted expanded tort liability do not apply in the context of equitable indemnity. While that may be true, it is hard to see why a tortfeasor should receive the windfall of an equitable set-off when the law precludes the injured party from recovering tort damages for the same wrongful conduct. Why should the law favor the wrongdoer with a more advantageous measure of damages? We decline to apply an inconsistent rule—converting a breach of contract into a tort for some purposes but not others—absent authority for doing so. “If every negligent breach of a contract gives rise to tort damages the limitation would be meaningless, as would the statutory distinction between tort and contract remedies.” (Erlich v. Menezes, supra, 21 Cal.4th at p. 554.) Because negligent performance of a contract gives rise to contract damages only (id. at pp. 552-554), such alleged negligence will not support a claim for equitable indemnity.
DISPOSITION
The judgment is affirmed. Respondent shall recover its costs on appeal.
Parrilli, J., concurred.
POLLAK, J., Concurring.
Although I concur in the judgment for the limited reason explained in part H.3., post, I believe that the issues presented by the pleadings in this case present an opportunity for reconsideration of some basic principles concerning the law of equitable indemnity. If two parties breach separate contracts with a third party, jointly causing indivisible damage to the third party, and the injured party seeks recovery from only one of the two defaulting parties, is there any good reason for which that party should not be entitled to equitable indemnity from the second defaulting party? If two parties jointly cause harm to a third party, one by an act of negligence and the other by negligently breaching a contractual obligation, and the injured party seeks recovery from only the former, is there any good reason for which that party should not be entitled to equitable indemnity from the latter? Although the decision of the trial court and the majority precluding indemnity in such situations rests on what appears to be well-settled law, I believe that closer analysis of the underlying principles calls for a different conclusion.
I. Factual and Procedural History
In October 2003, the Regents of the University of California (the Regents), as operator of the University of California at San Francisco Medical Center (UCSF Medical Center) filed a complaint against Stop Loss Insurance Brokers, Inc. (Stop Loss) alleging causes of action for breach of contract and negligence. The complaint alleges in relevant part that in 2000, the Regents participated in a capitated health care program. The Regents “contracted with various health care plans to provide services to plan enrollees in exchange for fixed or ‘capitated’ payments. At all relevant times, such capitated payments to [the Regents] were made through Brown & Toland Medical Group (‘BTMG’) and, as such, [the UCSF Medical Center] was deemed the ‘in-area’ hospital provider facility for BTMG plan members. BTMG managed premium payments and recoveries for the [Regents]. As a condition of participating in a capitated health care program, the [Regents] were required to carry insurance covering charges in excess of a fixed amount that the hospitals would be responsible for under the capitated program.” The Regents retained Stop Loss as its broker to procure the necessary insurance. Stop Loss represented that it “would be responsible for securing cost-effective insurance for [the Regents], which included gathering the information necessary for the insurance application and processing the insurance application. Stop Loss also . . . would gather all claims information for hospital patients from BTMG and submit the information directly to [the Regents’] reinsurer.” (Original underscoring.)
“[I]n 2001,” the complaint continues, “Stop Loss assumed all responsibility for claims submissions. Stop Loss did so by first meeting with BTMG and [the Regents’] officials and advocating a new program that allowed Stop Loss to take over all steps involved in the claim submission process from data analysis to claim-denial appeal. [The Regents] agreed and in 2001, BTMG provided Stop Loss with monthly electronic data of those claims that might require notice to the reinsurer. Stop Loss would review the electronic data, revise the information and decide what claims needed to be sent to the reinsurer. The reinsurance policy required the Regents to notify the insurer of any potential or actual claims exceeding 50 percent of the Regents’ deductible. The Regents’ complaint alleges that “BTMG timely submitted [information regarding the claim in question] to Stop Loss through its monthly electronic data information” and that the Regents suffered damages in excess of $1 million when its insurer denied a claim because Stop Loss failed to submit the claim to the insurer in a timely manner.
Stop Loss filed an answer denying the allegations and also a cross-complaint against BTMG for comparative equitable indemnity and declaratory relief. The cross-complaint was amended twice in response to demurrers filed by BTMG. As amended, Stop Loss’s cause of action for comparative indemnity alleges that any damage sustained by the Regents as a result of the failure to timely notify the insurer of the potential claim was caused entirely or partially by BTMG and that, as a result, BTMG is obligated to partially or fully indemnify Stop Loss for any sums that Stop Loss may be compelled to pay the Regents as damages. The cross-complaint alleges that “[i]n order to provide the requisite notice of such claims to the reinsurer, [the Regents], BTMG, and Stop Loss established a system under which information was exchanged among them (the ‘System’). Although the System was not established pursuant to a contract, [the Regents], BTMG and Stop Loss each assumed and understood its duties under the System, [f] Within the System, [the Regents] provided claims information to BTMG. BTMG used that information to determine whether a claim required notice to the reinsurer. BTMG then notified Stop Loss of its determinations and provided claims information to Stop Loss. [The Regents] relied on BTMG to properly analyze the patients’ claims and to report timely claims of which notice to the reinsurer was required. [][] After it received the information from BTMG, Stop Loss input the information into certain forms. After it prepared the forms, Stop Loss sent the forms to BTMG for approval. Once BTMG approved the forms prepared by Stop Loss, BTMG sent the forms to the reinsurer. Receipt of the forms by the reinsurer constituted notice to the reinsurer of potential or actual patient claims reflected in the forms which exceed or might exceed 50% of [the Regents’] deductible. ...[!]... BTMG knew that if it did not analyze claims properly, provide claims information to Stop Loss timely, and submit claims forms to the reinsurer timely, a required claim might not be disclosed to the reinsurer within the time permitted. . . . BTMG owed a duty to [the Regents] to analyze claims properly, provide claims information to Stop Loss timely and submit claims forms to the reinsurer timely.” (Fn. omitted.)
According to Stop Loss’s pleading, BTMG did not notify it of the claim in question until August 2001, “well after” the claim was required to be disclosed. “BTMG’s failure to report [the claim in question] constituted a breach of its duty to [the Regents].” Stop Loss further alleged, on information and belief, “that if [the Regents] suffered any damage as a result of the failure to timely submit a claim to the reinsurer, such a failure is the result of BTMG’s acts or failures to act, and not of any act or failure to act of Stop Loss. BTMG owed a duty of care to [the Regents] to analyze its patients’ claims properly, to report claims information to Stop Loss timely, and to submit claims forms to the reinsurer timely. BTMG breached this duty. Therefore, if it is determined that [the Regents] sustained damage and [are] entitled to recover from Stop Loss, BTMG should be required to indemnify Stop Loss.”
BTMG demurred to the cross-complaint on the ground that it failed to allege that BTMG owed a duty of care to the Regents with regard to the manner in which it analyzed claim information. The trial court found that the “second amended cross-complaint fails to state sufficient facts to give rise to a duty owed by BTMG to [the Regents] sounding in tort” and sustained the demurrer without leave to amend. A judgment dismissing the cross-complaint was entered thereafter. Stop Loss timely filed a notice of appeal.
II. Discussion
1. Standard of review
Since we are reviewing the sufficiency of Stop Loss’s cross-complaint, we must assume the truth of all well-pleaded facts in that pleading. (Jones v. American President Lines (1957) 149 Cal.App.2d 319, 322 [308 P.2d 393].) To the extent that the Regents’ complaint contains contrary allegations, we must, for purposes of evaluating the demurrer, accept Stop Loss’s version of the facts. (Ibid.) The sufficiency of the cross-complaint presents a pure question of law, which this court must review de novo. (Filet Menu, Inc. v. Cheng (1999) 71 Cal.App.4th 1276, 1279 [84 Cal.Rptr.2d 384].)
2. Stop Loss’s cross-complaint sufficiently alleges a cause of action for equitable indemnity.
a. The issues defined
The trial court’s ruling that the cross-complaint fails to state a cause of action for comparative equitable indemnity, upheld in the majority opinion, rests on two premises: first, that equitable indemnity is available only as between joint tortfeasors, and may not be obtained from a party whose liability is based solely on breach of contract; and secondly, that the failure to perform a contractual obligation that causes only monetary damages may not be the basis for tort liability. Both of these broad propositions require more careful consideration.
The cross-complaint alleges that BTMG was wholly or partially responsible for the Regents’ financial loss, but the sufficiency of this pleading is significant only if partial responsibility is assumed. If the evidence proves that BTMG was wholly responsible for the Regents’ loss, then Stop Loss bears no liability and the sufficiency of its cross-complaint is academic. The issues are framed only by assuming to be true, as we must, that the actions or failures to act of both Stop Loss and BTMG jointly gave rise to a single economic loss to the Regents, namely, the loss of $1 million of insurance coverage.
The Regents’ complaint against Stop Loss alleges both breach of the Regents/Stop Loss contract, and negligent breach of Stop Loss’s professional duties as an insurance broker. The cross-complaint alleges that BTMG’s liability arises from its failure to perform under the “system” established by the three parties for the processing of information. “Although the System was not established pursuant to a contract,” the cross-complaint reads, “[the Regents], BTMG, and Stop Loss each assumed and understood its duties under the System.” This allegation is essentially self-contradictory, undoubtedly made in an attempt to avoid the rule that equitable indemnity may not be obtained from one who contributed to a loss only by breaching a contractual obligation. As the majority opinion points out (maj. opn., ante, at p. 1042), the law imposes no duty on strangers to promptly process another’s commercial data comparable to the duty imposed on all persons to exercise due care to avoid injuring others. If, as Stop Loss’s cross-complaint alleges, BTMG “assumed and understood” an obligation to the Regents to timely process and forward insurance data, that obligation necessarily was based on an implied agreement arising out of the business relationship between those two parties. The Regents’ complaint confirms the existence of a business relationship between the Regents and BTMG. While the precise terms of the arrangement are not specified, the Regents allege that “BTMG managed premium payments and recoveries for the [Regents].” The duties that BTMG assumed pursuant to that arrangement are necessarily the source of any obligations that BTMG owed to the Regents.
Thus, consistent with the allegations of the cross-complaint, it must be assumed that BTMG did not timely transmit to Stop Loss the information necessary for the submission of the reinsurance claim as it had undertaken to do, that once received, Stop Loss did not diligently process and forward the information, and that as the combined result of both delays the reinsurer did not receive timely notification and the Regents were unable to recover on the reinsurance claim. Under these assumptions, Stop Loss is liable to the Regents for the full amount of the loss. The issue is whether, under these assumptions required by the pleadings, there is any good reason why Stop Loss should not be entitled to recover from BTMG a portion of the liability corresponding to its proportionate share of the fault in jointly causing the loss.
b. The limitation of equitable indemnity to joint tortfeasors
The first premise on which the decision of the trial court and the majority rests undoubtedly correctly reflects the current state of California law. “Indemnity has been defined as the obligation resting on one party to make good a loss or damage another party has incurred. [Citation.] In this state the obligation may arise from either of two general sources: ‘First, it may arise by virtue of express contractual language establishing a duty in one party to save another harmless upon the occurrence of specified circumstances. Second, it may find its source in equitable considerations brought into play either by contractual language not specifically dealing with indemnification or by the equities of the particular case.’ ” (Kramer v. Cedu Foundation, Inc. (1979) 93 Cal.App.3d 1, 9 [155 Cal.Rptr. 552], quoting E. L. White, Inc. v. City of Huntington Beach (1978) 21 Cal.3d 497, 506-507 [146 Cal.Rptr. 614, 579 P.2d 505].)
With respect to the latter, with which we are here exclusively concerned, “the equitable indemnity doctrine originated in the common sense proposition that when two individuals are responsible for a loss, but one of the two is more culpable than the other, it is only fair that the more culpable party should bear a greater share of the loss. Of course, at the time the doctrine developed, common law precepts precluded any attempt to ascertain comparative fault; as a consequence, equitable indemnity, like the contributory negligence doctrine, developed as an all-or-nothing proposition.” (American Motorcycle Assn. v. Superior Court (1978) 20 Cal.3d 578, 593 [146 Cal.Rptr. 182, 578 P.2d 899].) However, in American Motorcycle the Supreme Court concluded that the rationale that prompted abandonment of the rule precluding recovery by a contributorily negligent plaintiff in favor of a doctrine of comparative fault “applies equally to the allocation of responsibility between two or more negligent defendants and requires a modification of this state’s traditional all-or-nothing common law equitable indemnity doctrine.” (Id. at p. 607, citing Li v. Yellow Cab Co. (1975) 13 Cal.3d 804 [119 Cal.Rptr. 858, 532 P.2d 1226].) The court “concurred] with Dean Prosser’s observation in a related context that ‘[t]here is obvious lack of sense and justice in a rule which permits the entire burden of a loss, for which two defendants were . . . unintentionally responsible, to be shouldered onto one alone, . . . while the latter goes scot free.’ ” (American Motorcycle Assn. v. Superior Court, supra, at pp. 607-608, quoting Prosser, Law of Torts (4th ed. 1971) § 67, p. 433; see also Bay Development, Ltd. v. Superior Court (1990) 50 Cal.3d 1012, 1029-1030, fn. 10 [269 Cal.Rptr. 720, 791 P.2d 290].)
“Originally applied to defendants whose negligence caused the plaintiff’s loss (see, e.g., American Motorcycle Assn. v. Superior Court, supra, 20 Cal.3d 578), the Supreme Court later expanded the doctrine [of comparative equitable indemnity] to allow apportionment of loss between a negligent plaintiff and a strictly liable defendant [citation], and between a defendant liable in strict liability and negligence and a defendant strictly liable.” (GEM Developers v. Hallcraft Homes of San Diego, Inc. (1989) 213 Cal.App.3d 419, 427 [261 Cal.Rptr. 626].) Comparative indemnity has been made available to apportion liability between two parties who are strictly liable. (Gentry Construction Co. v. Superior Court (1989) 212 Cal.App.3d 177 [260 Cal.Rptr. 421].) Yet, for largely historical reasons, equitable indemnity has been limited to cases in which the indemnitor’s liability is based on tort principles. “Although the body of law defining and applying principles of equitable indemnity has not fully gelled but is still evolving, one thing is clear: The doctrine applies only among defendants who are jointly and severally liable to the plaintiff. [Citation.] As plaintiff maintains, joint and several liability in the context of equitable indemnity is fairly expansive. We agree it is not limited to ‘the old common term “joint tortfeasor” . . . .’ It can apply to acts that are concurrent or successive, joint or several, as long as they create a detriment caused by several actors. [Citation.] [f] One factor is necessary, however. With limited exception, there must be some basis for tort liability against the proposed indemnitor. [Citation.] Generally, it is based on a duty owed to the underlying plaintiff . . . .” (BFGC Architects Planners, Inc. v. Forcum/Mackey Construction, Inc. (2004) 119 Cal.App.4th 848, 852 [14 Cal.Rptr.3d 721] (BFGC) ; see also Leko v. Cornerstone Bldg. Inspection Service (2001) 86 Cal.App.4th 1109, 1115 [103 Cal.Rptr.2d 858]; GEM Developers v. Hallcraft Homes of San Diego, Inc., supra, at pp. 430-431; Cicone v. URS Corp. (1986) 183 Cal.App.3d 194, 212 [227 Cal.Rptr. 887] [“The concept of joint tortfeasors for the purpose of indemnity is explained in the restatement as ‘. . . two or more persons who are liable to the same person for the same harm. It is not necessary that they act in concert or in pursuance of a common design, nor is it necessary that they be joined as defendants. The rule stated applies to all torts . . ” (italics omitted)].)
The historical limitation excluding contract liability from the scope of equitable indemnity is consistent with the manner in which damages are awarded in a simple two-party breach of contract action. In order to recover for breach of contract, the nonbreaching party must prove that it has substantially performed the conditions of the breaching party’s performance (or that performance was excused). If it fails to do so, it obtains no recovery. If it does establish this predicate, it is entitled to recover all damages foreseeably caused by the other party’s breach. (Bruckman v. Parliament Escrow Corp. (1987) 190 Cal.App.3d 1051, 1063 [235 Cal.Rptr. 813]; see Rest.2d Contracts, § 235, com. b, p. 212 [“[w]hen performance is due, . . . anything short of full performance is a breach, even if the party who does not fully perform was not at fault and even if the defect in his performance was not substantial”]; III Farnsworth on Contracts (3d ed. 2004) § 12.8, pp. 195-196 [“contract law is, in its essential design, a law of strict liability”].) Thus, contract damages normally are awarded on an all-or-nothing basis. While the breaching party is liable only for damages foresee-ably caused by its breach, there is no apportionment of that amount even if less than perfect performance of the conditions by the nonbreaching party contributed in some measure to the loss. (Bruckman v. Parliament Escrow Corp., supra, at p. 1063; see 11 Corbin on Contracts (rev. ed. 2005) § 55.9, pp. 31-32.)
The wisdom of this approach has not gone unquestioned. (See Phillips, Out with the Old: Abandoning the Traditional Measurement of Contract Damages for a System of Comparative Fault (1999) 50 Ala. L.Rev. 911.) The author of this article argues that measuring damages for breach of contract by apportioning liability based on the percentage of fault in causing a breach would be more efficient and more equitable than the current system that is based on the expectations of the nonbreaching party. He argues, “The objective of expectation damages is to give the non-breaching party the benefit of his bargain. Essentially, this system of damages is one of strict liability that operates without regard to fault. In other words, the breaching party bears the full brunt of damage assessment regardless of the non-breaching party’s contributions to the breach. Commentators justify this strict liability system by urging that it prevents the courts from becoming entangled in an individual’s freedom to contract. Still others note that this system avoids costly and time-consuming efforts of determining fault. [][] However, damage systems that assess fault on the basis of strict liability are generally unfair and inequitable. The application of strict liability for contract damages leads to inefficiencies in the market system because the breaching party does not face the proper incentives to avoid breach.” (Id. at pp. 913-914, fns. omitted.) In his opinion, “adapting the tort concept of comparative fault to contract damages is a workable alternative to the doctrine of expectation. A damages system in contract based on comparative fault will encourage contracting parties to carry out their respective obligations and, as a result, create a more efficient and equitable doctrine of liabilities for breach.” (Id. at p. 914.) “The proposed system of comparative fault for contract damages is actually an exercise in apportionment. Should courts adopt and apply this system consistently, they would compare the parties’ respective fault in causing breach and apportion the cost of that breach accordingly.” (Id. at p. 922.)
California courts have made a small step in this direction. Rejecting the prior all-or-nothing rule, courts have applied apportionment principles to allocate contractual liquidated damages where delays in construction projects have been caused both by the owner and by the contractor. (Jasper Construction, Inc. v. Foothill Junior College Dist. (1979) 91 Cal.App.3d 1 [153 Cal.Rptr. 767]; see also Nomellini Constr. Co. v. State of California ex rel. Dept. of Wat. Resources (1971) 19 Cal.App.3d 240, 246 [96 Cal.Rptr. 682] [“categorical statements that where delays are caused on both sides there is no way to ‘apportion damages’ are an absurdity”]; Unruh & Worden, Liquidated Damages for Delay in Completion of Commercial Construction Projects: Are They Recoverable by the Owner When the Owner Contributes to the Delay? (1993) 34 Santa Clara L.Rev. 1.)
Some courts in other jurisdictions have applied this reasoning to permit indemnity from a party whose liability is based solely on breach of contract. In Northern Petrochemical Co. v. Thorsen & Thorshov, Inc. (1973) 297 Minn. 118 [211 N.W.2d 159], and later in Lesmeister v. Dilly (Minn. 1983) 330 N.W.2d 95, 102, the Minnesota Supreme Court recognized “a rule of damage apportionment applicable where two persons independently and unintentionally breach separate contracts to the same person.” The Lesmeister court explained, “Where A and B owe contract duties to C under separate contracts, and each breaches independently, and it is not reasonably possible to make a division of the damage caused by the separate breaches closely related in point of time, the breaching parties, even though they acted independently, are jointly and severally liable.” (Ibid.; see also S. J. Groves & Sons Co. v. Warner Co. (3d Cir. 1978) 576 F.2d 524, 527-528, fn. 3 [upholding apportionment of contract damages where both parties were responsible for particular loss, despite questionable propriety of “allocating] damages in situations where specific amounts cannot be attributable to separate causes”]; Gateway Western Ry. v. Morrison Metalweld Process (8th Cir. 1995) 46 F.3d 860, 862 [upholding instruction allowing contract damages to be apportioned under comparative fault principles because strict application of contract damage principles would have been overly harsh and inequitable].)
In In re Consol. Vista Hills Litigation (1995) 119 N.M. 542 [893 P.2d 438] (Amrep), the Supreme Court of New Mexico permitted an indemnity claim by a building contractor against a materials supplier even though the two were not joint tortfeasors and the sole loss in question was economic. “This situation is created, as here, when the plaintiff chooses to sue only one defendant and sues that defendant on a contract theory. Here the homeowners have sued . .. under theories of breach of contract and breach of warranty, [f] Regardless of whether [New Mexico’s contribution statute] is available for proportional contribution, in order to establish an equitable system in which all parties are held liable for damages in proportion to their respective fault, we must modify the common-law right to indemnification when an indemnitee has been adjudged liable for full damages on a third-party claim that was not susceptible under law to proration of fault among concurrent tortfeasors. Such proportional indemnification applies only when contribution or some other form of proration of fault among tortfeasors is not available.” (Id., 893 P.2d at pp. 448-449, fn. omitted.) “Under Amrep, a defendant found jointly and severally liable in contract with a right of proportional indemnity is similarly situated to a defendant jointly and severally liable in tort with a right of comparative contribution. Like a defendant jointly and severally liable in tort, a defendant liable on a contract theory continues to be responsible for 100% of the plaintiff’s awarded damages. After Amrep, however, a defendant liable in contract may seek proportional indemnity based on principles of comparative fault in the same way a defendant jointly and severally liable in tort can seek comparative contribution.” (Mock, Trends in New Mexico Law: 1994-1995: Tort Law—New Mexico Adopts Proportional Indemnity and Clouds the Distinction Between Contract and Tort: Amrep Southwest, Inc. v. Shollenbarger Wood Treating, Inc. (1996) 26 N.M. L.Rev. 603, 613.) As a result of Amrep, a “defendant can bring [into a lawsuit] virtually any other party which, within the bounds of good faith, may be potentially responsible for the third-party plaintiff’s potential liability.” (Id. at p. 615, fn. omitted.)
The advisability of apportioning damages in contract actions, however, has not been universally accepted. According to the New York Court of Appeals, “[t]he policy considerations that underlay ... the need to liberalize the inequitable and harsh rules that once governed contribution among joint tort-feasors ... are not pertinent to contract matters. Parties to a contract have the power to specifically delineate the scope of their liability at the time the contract is formed. Thus, there is nothing unfair in defining a contracting party’s liability by the scope of its promise as reflected by the agreement of the parties. Indeed, this is required by the very nature of contract law, where potential liability is determined in advance by the parties.” (Bd. of Educ. v. Sargent (1987) 71 N.Y.2d 21, 29 [523 N.Y.S.2d 475, 479, 517 N.E.2d 1360, 1365]; see Bussel, Liability for Concurrent Breach of Contract (1995) 73 Wash.U. L.Q. 97, 124, 126 (Bussel) [“The reasons that justify the joint and several liability regime in tort in general do not apply in contract. But the disadvantages of overdeterrence and strategic behavior that give rise to criticism on the tort regime arise in contract as well. Importing the tort notions would create perverse economic incentives on prebreach behavior. And, finally, such notions appear to be inconsistent with the long-standing, well-understood and apparently well-functioning contract doctrines governing remedies”].)
While this reasoning may apply to the apportionment of damages as between contracting parties, it has little application to the fairness of denying apportionment as between parties who have contributed to causing another’s loss but who have no contractual relationship between themselves. Nonetheless, there are conceptual problems in imposing equitable indemnity on a party whose liability is based on breach of contract that do not exist in applying equitable indemnity between two tortfeasors. The measure of damages in most tort cases is all loss proximately caused by the wrongdoing, whether anticipated or not. However, the measure of contract damages remains very much the same as articulated in Hadley v. Baxendale (1884 Ex.) 156 Eng.Rep. 145—those damages that the parties could reasonably have anticipated when they entered the contract. (Applied Equipment Corp. v. Litton Saudi Arabia Ltd. (1994) 7 Cal.4th 503, 514-516 [28 Cal.Rptr.2d 475, 869 P.2d 454].) Thus, apportionment between parties who have breached different contracts entered at different times would in theory require the use of different measures of damages, as would apportionment as between a party liable in tort and a party liable for breach of contract. (See Bussel, supra, 73 Wash.U. L.Q. at pp. 124-125.) This would, at a minimum, complicate the apportionment formula.
Particularly in view of these complications, I would be reluctant to adopt a rule departing fundamentally from well-established California law on this issue. The preceding discussion suggests that the refusal to apportion damages simply because the liability of one party arises from breach of contract may warrant reconsideration. There are circumstances in which the refusal to apportion contract damages, or damages caused jointly by one party’s breach of a duty imposed by law and another’s breach of a contractual duty, may produce the same inequitable results that prompted our Supreme Court to abandon the all-or-nothing approach to tort damages. Yet, although there may be good reason to do so, any such fundamental change should come from our Supreme Court, or from the Legislature. Absent such a change, I agree with the majority that we must adhere to the rule that equitable indemnity may be obtained only from one who is jointly and severally liable to the injured party based on the commission of a tort, i.e., based on the breach of a duty imposed by law.
c. BTMG’s Alleged Failure to Timely Perform Constitutes the Breach of a Duty Imposed by Law for the Purpose of Granting Equitable Indemnity
Proceeding on the premise that Stop Loss can state a claim for indemnity against BTMG only if it can allege facts establishing a tort liability of BTMG, two alternatives suggest themselves. Stop Loss may be entitled to equitable indemnity if BTMG breached a duty to the Regents imposed by law that contributed to the Regents’ loss for which Stop Loss may be held responsible. Stop Loss also may be entitled to recover from BTMG if BTMG breached a duty imposed by law that is owed to Stop Loss.
As indicated in part H.2.a. above, BTMG could have acquired a duty to the Regents to timely process claims information only by having agreed explicitly or implicitly to do so. Although its failure to perform such a duty may have constituted the breach of a contractually based obligation, the failure may in addition have breached a duty imposed by law. In North American Chemical Co. v. Superior Court (1997) 59 Cal.App.4th 764, 774 [69 Cal.Rptr.2d 466], the court explained that “for over 50 years California has also recognized the fundamental principle that 1 “[accompanying every contract is a common-law duty to perform with care, skill, reasonable expedience, and faithfulness the thing agreed to be done, and a negligent failure to observe any of these conditions is a tort, as well as a breach of the contract.” The rule which imposes this duty is of universal application as to all persons who by contract undertake professional or other business engagements requiring the exercise of care, skill and knowledge; the obligation is implied by law and need not be stated in the agreement [citation].’ [Citations.] ... A contract to perform services gives rise to a duty of care which requires that such services be performed in a competent and reasonable manner. A negligent failure to do so may be both a breach of contract and a tort. [Citation.] In such a hybrid circumstance, the plaintiff is entitled to pursue both legal theories until an occasion for an election of remedies arises.” (Ibid., fn. omitted; see also Eads v. Marks (1952) 39 Cal.2d 807, 810 [249 P.2d 257] [“Even where there is a contractual relationship between the parties, a cause of action in tort may sometimes arise out of the negligent manner in which the contractual duty is performed”].)
BTMG argues that the decision of the Supreme Court in Aas v. Superior Court (2000) 24 Cal.4th 627 [101 Cal.Rptr.2d 718, 12 P.3d 1125] (Aas), superseded by statute on another ground as set out in Rosen v. State Farm General Ins. Co. (2003) 30 Cal.4th 1070, 1079-1080 [135 Cal.Rptr.2d 361, 70 P.3d 351], precludes the recognition of a “broad general duty of care” that would support tort liability here. In holding that homeowners cannot recover for construction defects that have not caused personal injury or property damage, the court in Aas stated that “[a] person may not ordinarily recover in tort for the breach of duties that merely restate contractual obligations. Instead, 1 “[cjourts will generally enforce the breach of contractual promise through contract law, except when the actions that constitute the breach violate a social policy that merits the imposition of tort remedies.” ’ ” (Aas, supra, at p. 643; see Erlich v. Menezes (1999) 21 Cal.4th 543, 552 [87 Cal.Rptr.2d 886, 981 P.2d 978] (Erlich).) Relying on Aas, the court in BFGC, supra, 119 Cal.App.4th at page 853, rejected an architect’s claim for equitable indemnity against the contractors on the job in question, reasoning that “[t]he only allegations of [the contractors’] misconduct are based on their alleged breach of contract, despite [the architect’s] gloss that in doing so they breached their duties. This is an improper attempt to recast a breach of contract cause of action as a tort claim.” The majority opinion here echoes this reasoning.
The line of cases exemplified by Aas and Erlich, however, does not preclude a claim for equitable indemnity under the present circumstances. In Aas, the Supreme Court held that the so-called “economic loss rule” precludes recovery under tort theories for losses that are solely economic, and that recovery for such losses normally can be obtained only to the extent available for breach of contract or warranty. (Aas, supra, 24 Cal.4th at pp. 635-636.) The Aas court reaffirmed its rejection in Erlich of “the argument that the negligent performance of a construction contract, without more, justifies an award of tort damages.” (Id. at p. 643.) And, after analyzing the factors identified in Biakanja v. Irving (1958) 49 Cal.2d 647 [320 P.2d 16] and reaffirmed in J’Aire Corp. v. Gregory (1979) 24 Cal.3d 799 [157 Cal.Rptr. 407, 598 P.2d 60] (J’Aire), the court did “not find they justify a broad rule permitting recovery of repair costs unaccompanied by property damage or personal injury.” (Aas, supra, 24 Cal.4th at p. 647.)
The “economic loss rule” applied in Aas “requires a purchaser to recover in contract for purely economic loss due to disappointed expectations, unless he can demonstrate harm above and beyond a broken contractual promise.” (Robinson Helicopter Co., Inc. v. Dana Corp. (2004) 34 Cal.4th 979, 988 [22 Cal.Rptr.3d 352, 102 P.3d 268] (Robinson Helicopter); see also Aas, supra, 24 Cal.4th at p. 643; Seely v. White Motor Co. (1965) 63 Cal.2d 9 [45 Cal.Rptr. 17, 403 P.2d 145].) The rationale for this rule was repeated in Robinson Helicopter. “ ‘ “The distinction that the law has drawn between tort recovery for physical injuries and warranty recovery for economic loss is not arbitrary and does not rest on the ‘luck’ of one plaintiff in having an accident causing physical injury. The distinction rests, rather, on an understanding of the nature of the responsibility a manufacturer must undertake in distributing his products.” [Citation.] We concluded that the nature of this responsibility meant that a manufacturer could appropriately be held liable for physical injuries (including both personal injury and damage to property other than the product itself), regardless of the terms of any warranty. [Citation.] But the manufacturer could not be held liable for “the level of performance of his products in the consumer’s business unless he agrees that the product was designed to meet the consumer’s demands.” ’ ” (Robinson Helicopter, supra, 34 Cal.4th at pp. 988-989.)
The recovery of tort damages for a breach of contract is seldom permitted. “Generally, outside the insurance context, ‘a tortious breach of contract . . . may be found when (1) the breach is accompanied by a traditional common law tort, such as fraud or conversion; (2) the means used to breach the contract are tortious, involving deceit or undue coercion or; (3) one party intentionally breaches the contract intending or knowing that such a breach will cause severe, unmitigable harm in the form of mental anguish, personal hardship, or substantial consequential damages.’ ” (Erlich, supra, 21 Cal.4th at pp. 553-554; see 1 Witkin, Summary of California Law (10th ed. 2005) Contracts, § 877, p. 965.) Our Supreme Court has repeatedly emphasized that “[c]ontract and tort are different branches of the law,” and that “[cjontract damages are generally limited to those within the contemplation of the parties when the contract was entered into or at least reasonably foreseeable by them at that time; consequential damages beyond the expectations of the parties are not recoverable. [Citations.] This limitation on available damages serves to encourage contractual relations and commercial activity by enabling parties to estimate in advance the financial risks of their enterprise, [f] In contrast, tort damages are awarded to compensate the victim for injury suffered.” (Applied Equipment Corp. v. Litton Saudi Arabia Ltd., supra, 7 Cal.4th at pp. 514, 515-516; see Foley v. Interactive Data Corp. (1988) 47 Cal.3d 654, 683 [254 Cal.Rptr. 211, 765 P.2d 373]; Freeman & Mills, Inc. v. Belcher Oil Co. (1995) 11 Cal.4th 85 [44 Cal.Rptr.2d 420, 900 P.2d 669] [overruling Seaman’s Direct Buying Service, Inc. v. Standard Oil Co. (1984) 36 Cal.3d 752 [206 Cal.Rptr. 354, 686 P.2d 1158], which had recognized cause of action in tort for bad faith denial of the existence of a contract].)
In Erlich, the Supreme Court confirmed that “ ‘the same wrongful act may constitute both a breach of contract and an invasion of an interest protected by the law of torts.’ ” (Erlich, supra, 21 Cal.4th at p. 551.) But the court adhered to the rule that tort damages cannot be recovered if the act is wrongful only because it breaches a contractual obligation, holding that emotional distress damages cannot be recovered for the breach of a contract to construct a house. The court reaffirmed that “damages for mental suffering and emotional distress are generally not recoverable in an action for breach of an ordinary commercial contract in California” (id. at p. 558), summarizing the reasons for denying tort recovery in contract breach cases as follows: “the different objectives underlying tort and contract breach; the importance of predictability in assuring commercial stability in contractual dealings; the potential for converting every contract breach into a tort, with accompanying punitive damage recovery, and the preference for legislative action in affording appropriate remedies. [Citation.] . . . Restrictions on contract remedies serve to protect the ‘ “freedom to bargain over special risks and [to] promote contract formation by limiting liability to the value of the promise.” ’ ” (Id. at p. 553.)
As appears, the issue with which all of these cases grapple is the type of damages that may be recovered under contract and tort principles. Despite the fact that a negligent failure to perform contractual obligations constitutes a tort, the injured party may recover only contractual damages unless “the duty that gives rise to tort liability is either completely independent of the contract or arises from conduct which is both intentional and intended to harm.” (Erlich, supra, 21 Cal.4th at p. 552; see Applied Equipment Corp. v. Litton Saudi Arabia Ltd., supra, 7 Cal.4th at p. 515.) Stated differently, unless “ ‘the actions that constitute the breach violate a social policy that merits the imposition of tort remedies.’ ” (Erlich, supra, at p. 552.) The restriction is grounded in the recognition that “the consequences of a negligent act must be limited to avoid an intolerable burden on society.” (Ibid.)
These reasons for adhering to the distinction between damages recoverable in contract and in tort have no bearing on the present claim for equitable indemnity. Stop Loss is not attempting to recover expanded tort damages or any element of damages not customarily available for breach of contract. The Regents’ claim against Stop Loss seeks only economic damages—a remedy available for a breach of the Regents/Stop Loss agreement—and Stop Loss seeks only to compel BTMG to pay for its proportionate contribution to the Regents’ loss—damages that would also be available for breach of agreement between the Regents and BTMG. By recognizing that BTMG’s alleged breach of a commitment to the Regents may also violate a duty imposed by law and thus support a claim for equitable indemnity, BTMG is not exposed to liability beyond that which was foreseeable when it made a commitment to the Regents. Requiring BTMG to pay for the share of the Regents’ loss for which it is responsible will not interfere with the reasonable expectations of BTMG, expand the scope of damages for breach of contract, or expose BTMG to unlimited liability. In simply reiterating the principle that a party may not ordinarily recover in tort for the breach of contractual duties (maj. opn., ante, at p. 1041), the majority opinion ignores the context in which this principle has invariably been applied, the reasoning behind the principle—to prevent the recovery of damages not within the reasonable expectations of the parties in entering the contract—and the fact that recognizing a claim for indemnity in the present context would not sanction the recovery of any damages that are not contract damages.
Nor will permitting equitable indemnity in this situation violate the so-called economic loss rule. The indemnitor cannot be liable for negligent breach of contract unless it has in fact breached the contract. Holding the indemnitor responsible for its proportionate share of the injured party’s financial loss does not impose any liability beyond that which it has contractually assumed.
Moreover, in Aas, the Supreme Court reaffirmed that in some circumstances economic damages may be recoverable for the negligent performance of a contractual obligation damaging the economic interests of a third party. Liability to one not in privity may be imposed if a balancing of the factors identified in Biakanja v. Irving, supra, 49 Cal.2d at page 650, and reaffirmed in J’Aire, supra, 24 Cal.3d at page 804, warrant the imposition of a duty to protect those interests. (Aas, supra, 24 Cal.4th at pp. 643-644.) In J’Aire, the court held that “[wjhere a special relationship exists between the parties, a plaintiff may recover for loss of expected economic advantage through the negligent performance of a contract although the parties were not in contractual privity.” (J’Aire, supra, 24 Cal.3d at p. 804.) In determining the existence of a special relationship giving rise to a duty of care, the following factors should be weighed: “(1) the extent to which the transaction was intended to affect the plaintiff, (2) the foreseeability of harm to the plaintiff, (3) the degree of certainty that the plaintiff suffered injury, (4) the closeness of the connection between the defendant’s conduct and the injury suffered, (5) the moral blame attached to the defendant’s conduct and (6) the policy of preventing future harm.” (J’Aire, at p. 804.)
Here, the allegations of Stop Loss’s cross-complaint satisfy most of the J’Aire factors. The understanding allegedly reached between the Regents, BTMG and Stop Loss was intended to affect the Regents’ ability to obtain insurance coverage and Stop Loss’s ability to perform its responsibilities under that arrangement. The harm allegedly caused by BTMG’s failure to timely process the claim data was entirely foreseeable. BTMG’s alleged failure to perform is closely connected to the denial of the insurance coverage and the harm suffered by the Regents, and in turn to the loss sustained by Stop Loss in incurring liability for the loss of that coverage. While there is not necessarily any moral blame attached to BTMG’s conduct, recognizing a duty owed to Stop Loss for this purpose may well decrease the likelihood of similar harm in the future. The preponderance of the J’Aire factors thus supports finding a special relationship in this case which justifies the recognition of a duty on the part of BTMG owed to Stop Loss to perform its commitments to the Regents. (See Aas, supra, 24 Cal.4th at p. 644 [“case-by-case test for identifying such a duty” involves balancing the factors set forth in J’Aire].)
Treating the negligent breach of a contractual obligation as sufficient to support a claim for equitable indemnity does not render nugatory the conclusion that such indemnity is available only between joint tortfeasors. Every breach of contract will not support a claim for indemnity but only those that result from a failure “to perform with care, skill, reasonable expedience, and faithfulness.” {North American Chemical v. Superior Court, supra, 59 Cal.App.4th at p. 774.) This differs from the strict liability that is imposed for any unexcused failure to perform the terms of a contract. (Bruckman v. Parliament Escrow Corp., supra, 190 Cal.App.3d at p. 1063.)
I thus reach the same conclusion as did the Supreme Court of New Mexico in Amrep, supra, 893 P.2d at page 447: “Although a person cannot be held liable for economic-loss damages in tort because of the economic-loss rule, when that person is held liable for economic-loss damages in contract, and that person’s liability is attributable to the fault of another, it would be unjust not to allow indemnification. We therefore hold that the economic-loss rule does not bar a claim for indemnification. If a party is held liable for damages that are the fault of another, the former may seek indemnification from the latter regardless of the basis for the former’s liability. This does not abrogate the economic-loss rule because parties are still bound by their contractual agreements (including indemnification agreements) and because allowing indemnification in this context would in no way blur the line between contract and tort.” (Fn. omitted.)
3. Reversal is not required because of subsequent developments in this case.
Despite my conclusion that Stop Loss sufficiently alleged a cause of action for equitable indemnity, so that the demurrer to the cross-complaint should not have been sustained, for reasons arising subsequent to the trial court’s ruling it is not necessary to reverse the dismissal of the cross-complaint. BTMG states in its brief, “Any alleged negligence on the part of BTMG may be imputed to the Regents.” At oral argument counsel for BTMG reiterated that BTMG was at all times acting as an “agent,” “middleman” or “manager” for the Regents and thus that any conduct on BTMG’s part that contributed to the Regents’ loss would be attributed to the Regents. The pleadings out of which this appeal arises provide no basis to assume that the Regents would agree or would be compelled to accept responsibility for deficiencies in the performance of BTMG. Nonetheless, the Regents’ claim against Stop Loss has already been tried and, as BTMG has represented, Stop Loss was held liable only for that portion of the Regents’ loss which the jury attributed directly to Stop Loss.
While this appeal was pending, the Regents’ action against Stop Loss was tried before a jury. The jury rejected the Regents’ breach of contract claim, finding that the Regents did not “do all, or substantially all, of the significant things that the contract required them to do.” However, the jury did find Stop Loss liable for “professional negligence in connection with the placement of Provide Excess insurance.” The jury was instructed to apportion fault between the Regents and Stop Loss if it determined that any negligence on the part of the Regents contributed to the Regents’ harm, and the jury awarded the Regents only $569,400 in damages, significantly less than the amount of the insurance recovery the Regents claimed was lost as a result of the late claim submission. Since there has been no suggestion that there was any fault on the part of the Regents other than that for which BTMG was responsible, it appears that the underlying action was tried consistent with BTMG’s representation that Stop Loss would be liable for only that portion of the loss attributable to its own fault, and that the Regents’ recovery was reduced by the portion of fault the jury attributed to BTMG. Since Stop Loss was not held liable for any portion of the loss attributable to BTMG’s fault, there is no basis for a claim of indemnity. (See Jaffe v. Huxley Architecture (1988) 200 Cal.App.3d 1188, 1192 [246 Cal.Rptr. 432] [“Since indemnification is an equitable doctrine existing only to correct potential injustice, it has no utility where there is no such potential”].) Hence, there is no need or justification for reversing the ruling that the court made with respect to the pleadings because subsequent developments in the litigation have rendered the question moot.
In contrast to the Regents’ complaint, the cross-complaint alleged BTMG, not Stop Loss, decided which claims required notice and BTMG, not Stop Loss, was responsible for sending claims forms to the insurer.
As the concurring opinion recognizes (cone, opn., post, at pp. 1049-1051, 1054-1055), California law does not permit equitable apportionment of damages for breach of contract, and we are not bound to follow an out-of-state decision adopting a contrary rale. (See cone, opn., post, at p. 1053, discussing In re Consol. Vista Hills Litigation (1995) 119 N.M. 542 [893 P.2d 438].)
Our concurring colleague’s assertion that Stop Loss is the injured third party (cone, opn., post, at p. 1062, fn. 11) ignores the allegations of the cross-complaint and turns Biakanja on its head. Stop Loss did not allege it was the injured party. Rather, consistent with the requirements of a claim for equitable indemnity, the cross-complaint alleged BTMG’s breach of duty—a duty Stop Loss sought to infer based on the Biakanja factors—was a concurrent cause of the economic loss the Regents suffered. The novel analysis in the concurrence applies Biakanja to conclude that BTMG owed an implied duty of care to Stop Loss to avoid causing an injury for which Stop Loss, if it also acted negligently, could be held concurrently liable. Not surprisingly, our colleague cites no case extending Biakanja to find a duty of care among joint tortfeasors (or contract breachers) to prevent losses that will not be subject to equitable apportionment. It is hard to envision where such an expansive duty would end.
In response to this question, the concurring opinion resorts to the general policy supporting equitable indemnity among joint tortfeasors. (Conc, opn., post, at p. 1060, fn. 9, quoting American Motorcycle Assn. v. Superior Court (1978) 20 Cal.3d 578, 607-608 [146 Cal.Rptr. 182, 578 P.2d 899].) But this answer does not suffice because, contrary to the application of equitable indemnity in a typical tort case, here indemnity is sought for a measure of damages—i.e., tort—that the plaintiff itself is precluded by law from recovering.
The complaint also alleges that Stop Loss failed to procure the proper amount of insurance coverage.
The negligence cause of action also alleges that the duties Stop Loss failed to perform arose from its representations that it would perform them.
Stop Loss alleges no breach of any contract between itself and BTMG.
As the court there goes on to note, vicarious liability, strict liability and implied contractual indemnity may also provide a basis for equitable indemnity. (BFGC, supra, 119 Cal.App.4th at p. 852.)
Bussel suggests as an alternative that courts adopt “one-party rule” under which the breaching party found to be most at fault is held liable for all damages properly awarded under its contract and other breaching parties whose conduct causes some, but less, damage are excused from all liability. “[H]olding only one concurrent breacher responsible for all the damages as calculated in accordance with its contract, and excusing the others, is superior to both joint and several liability and several liability as a solution to the problem of allocating liability for concurrent breaches.” (Bussel, supra, 73 Wash.U. L.Q. at p. 126.)
The recognition of this principle in California can be traced at least to the 1942 decision in Roscoe Moss Co. v. Jenkins (1942) 55 Cal.App.2d 369 [130 P.2d 477]. In that case, a contractor sued a property owner for breach of contract after the owner failed to pay for a well that the contractor dug on the owner’s ranch. The property owner asserted that the contractor failed to dig the well in a good and workmanlike manner. The court upheld a cross-complaint against the contractor asserting a cause of action for breach of the duty implied by law applicable to every contract for services. (Id. at pp. 376-377; see also Kuitems v. Covell (1951) 104 Cal.App.2d 482, 485 [231 P.2d 552] [statement in written roofing contract that contract contains the entire agreement of the parties does not preclude claim based on breach of the duty implied in all contracts that the work be performed “with care, skill, reasonable expedience, and faithfulness the thing agreed to be done”]; see also cases cited in fns. 7 & 8, post.)
In Butler-Rupp v. Lourdeaux (2005) 134 Cal.App.4th 1220, 1228-1229 [36 Cal.Rptr.3d 685], the court recently reaffirmed that damages recoverable for the negligent performance of a contract are limited by the reasonable expectations of the parties. “Our consideration of the Erlich decision and related lines of authority leads to the conclusion that the award of damages for emotional distress should be reversed. The record supports a finding only that defendants negligently performed their contractual duties under the lease, thereby incurring liability for breach of contract. . . . The Lourdeauxs’ duties were circumscribed by their obligations under the lease and were confined to fulfilling plaintiffs contractual expectations of economic gain. The damages are therefore predicated on economic injury to plaintiff, which precludes recovery of damages for emotional distress. In our view, the affirmance of the award of damages for emotional distress would blur the distinction between contract and tort, thereby violating the policy underlying the economic' loss rule. Since Butler-Rupp’s damages derive solely from appellants’ failure to perform their contract obligations, she can recover only in contract for the economic losses due to her disappointed contractual expectations.” (Id. at p. 1229.)
Another situation in which a negligent breach of contract is treated as also being tortious, which does not have the effect of expanding the measure of damages for the breach, is in the application of the delayed discovery rale to toll the statute of limitations. Generally, the delayed discovery rale applies only to actions sounding in tort. (April Enterprises, Inc. v. KTTV (1983) 147 Cal.App.3d 805, 830, 832 [195 Cal.Rptr. 421].) Nonetheless, the delayed discovery rale has been applied consistently in negligent breach of contract cases. In Allred v. Bekins Wide World Van Services (1975) 45 Cal.App.3d 984 [120 Cal.Rptr. 312], the court applied the delayed discovery rale to a breach of contract claim based on breach of the duty of care implied by law in all contracts for the performance of services. The court reasoned, “The purpose of Bekins’ contract with the employers was the delivery of the Allred family’s goods to their home in the United States. In this undertaking Bekins was bound, as a matter of law, to use at least reasonable care and skill. [Citations.] And: ‘ “[Negligent failure to observe [such] conditions is a tort, as well as a breach of the contract.” ’ ” (Id. at p. 989.) The court concluded that because the Allreds had sufficiently pled a “negligent violation of a legal duty” the “applicable statutes of limitations in the case at bench, were tolled until the Allreds sustained damage, and discovered or should have discovered, their cause of action against Bekins.” (Id. at pp. 989, 991; see also Seelenfreund v. Terminix of Northern Cal., Inc. (1978) 84 Cal.App.3d 133, 136-139 [148 Cal.Rptr. 307] [delayed discovery rule applied to claim alleging negligent breach of contract to conduct termite inspection].) By acknowledging that the Allreds’ claim sounded in both contract and tort, the court did not expand Bekins’s liability or interfere with Bekins’s reasonable expectations under the contract.
Indeed, the majority acknowledges that “the policy reasons courts have resisted expanded tort liability do not apply in the context of equitable indemnity.” (Maj. opn., ante, at p. 1044.) The majority finds it “hard to see why a tortfeasor [i.e., in this case, Stop Loss] should receive the windfall of an equitable set-off when the law precludes the injured party from recovering tort damages for the same wrongful conduct.” (Id. at p. 1044.) But of course we are not dealing with a “windfall” but with the apportionment of liability as between two parties who have contributed to the same loss. The majority fails to explain why the policy of prohibiting tort damages, which (contrary to the maj. opn., ante, at p. 1044, fn. 4) are not at issue here, provides any rational explanation for precluding the recovery of contract damages by way of indemnity. The majority asks rhetorically, as if there were no good answer: “Why should the law favor the wrongdoer with a more advantageous measure of damages?” (Id. at p. 1044.) The reason of course is the same as the reason for which our Supreme Court has recognized equitable indemnity in the first place. (See ante, at pp. 1043-1044.) To repeat the answer of Dean Prosser: because “ ‘[t]here is obvious lack of sense and justice in a rale which permits the entire burden of a loss, for which two defendants were . . . unintentionally responsible, to be shouldered onto one alone, . . . while the latter goes scot free.’ ” (American Motorcycle Assn. v. Superior Court, supra, 20 Cal.3d at pp. 607-608.)
In North American Chemical, v. Superior Court, supra, 59 Cal.App.4th at page 783, the court noted that “[subsequent cases have extended the application of JAire to cases where the parties are in contractual privity. [Citations.] . . . ‘[T]he reasoning of J’Aire is wholly incompatible with a limitation of the cause of action to those instances in which the plaintiff and defendant are not in privity.’ ”
With all respect, the majority’s disagreement with this conclusion is inexplicable. (Maj. opn., ante, at p. 1042.) The majority states, “Biakanja and J’Aire address the specific situation that arises when (1) the defendant was acting pursuant to a contract, and (2) the defendant’s negligent performance of the contract injures a third party.” (Ibid.) Though asserting that “[n]either of these prerequisites is met in this case” {ibid.), both plainly are. Cross-defendant— i.e., BTMG—we must assume was acting pursuant to an implied agreement with the Regents, and its alleged negligent performance has injured a third party, namely Stop Loss, who we must assume will be held liable for the portion of the Regents’ loss caused by BTMG. The response of the majority (maj. opn., ante, at p. 1042, fn. 3) incorrectly assumes, without authority or explanation, that Biakanja and J’Aire apply only if the third party was directly injured by the defendant’s conduct and was not partially at fault for the loss. However, the J’Aire factors do not limit recovery to those directly injured but require consideration of the foreseeability of the harm and the closeness of the connection between the defendant’s conduct and the harm suffered. Proper application of these factors does not expand liability beyond that which is contemplated in J’Aire and Biakanja. Moreover, nothing in J’Aire and Biakanja suggests that the third party’s comparative fault precludes any recovery under the test enunciated in those cases.
It may be that the considerations on which the right to equitable indemnity is based would support extending the remedy to any breach of contract, but this conclusion cannot be derived from the principles articulated in North American Chemical v. Superior Court, supra, 59 Cal.App.4th 764, and I express no opinion on this issue. Similarly, I express no opinion as to the availability of equitable indemnity from a party whose liability is based on negligent breach of contract if the damages of the injured party include emotional distress or other elements not recoverable for breach of contract.
The “Judgment on Special Verdict” entered on June 8, 2006, in Regents of the University of California v. Stop Loss Ins. Brokers, Inc. (Super. Ct. S.F. City and County, 2006, No. CGC-03-425164) and the jury instructions on which the case was submitted to the jury are subject to judicial notice on the court’s own motion under Evidence Code section 452, subdivision (d).
| CASELAW |
2015 All-Ireland Under-21 Hurling Championship final
The 2015 All-Ireland Under-21 Hurling Championship final was a hurling match that was played at Semple Stadium, Thurles on 12 September 2015 to determine the winners of the 2015 All-Ireland Under-21 Hurling Championship, the 52nd season of the All-Ireland Under-21 Hurling Championship, a tournament organised by the Gaelic Athletic Association for the champion teams of the four provinces of Ireland. The final was contested by Wexford of Leinster and Limerick of Munster.
Limerick won the game by 0-26 to 1-7.
The homecoming event for the winning Limerick team took place on 17 September in front of Limerick City and County Council’s corporate headquarters at Merchants Quay. The homecoming was postponed from its original date of 14 September due to the bad weather.
Background
Wexford last won the competition in 1965, which was also their only title. Limerick have won on four occasion, in 1987, 2000, 2001 and 2002.
The Cross of Cashel winners trophy which was first introduced in 1967, will be awarded to the winning captain for the last time before being replaced with a new trophy for the following year.
Television coverage
The All-Ireland final was broadcast live as part of GAA Beo on TG4. Mícheál Ó Domhnaill presented the programme with analysis from John Allen and Diarmuid Lyng. Brian Tyers was the lead commentator with Pat Fleury acting as co-commentator.
Team News
Limerick announced an unchanged team from the semi-final win against Galway for the final. Wexford also announced and unchanged side for the final. | WIKI |
9.4a. Explain why early detection of mental health needs, dementia or learning disability is important
Early detection of mental health needs is important as it can benefit both the individual and their family and friends. It can enable them to put steps in place to to maximise their quality of life regardless of any developing conditions. If the individual and their family know ahead of time, they can plan for the future while the individual is most able to be involved and make decisions.
It can also clear up any uncertainty the individual has and make them feel more in control. By accessing information at an early stage they can make the best use of what is available and identify any financial support. While it may be difficult to hear about their diagnosis, it is better for them to hear about it sooner rather than later so they are more prepared to deal with it.
Finally, it can help them identify possible treatments and therapies that could benefit them and make the developing condition easier to deal with. An individual may want to consider taking medication or going to counselling for example. Therefore, it is vital that any mental health needs or other conditions are detected as soon as possible.
Don`t copy text! | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Last Flag Flying
Last Flag Flying is a 2017 American war comedy-drama film directed by Richard Linklater with a screenplay by Linklater and Darryl Ponicsan, based upon the latter's 2005 novel of the same name. It stars Steve Carell, Bryan Cranston, and Laurence Fishburne as three Vietnam War veterans who reunite after one of their sons is killed in the Iraq War.
Ponicsan's 2005 novel Last Flag Flying is a sequel to his 1970 novel The Last Detail, which covered the same characters earlier in their lives. For that reason, Last Flag Flying has been described as an unofficial sequel to the earlier novel's 1973 film adaptation, The Last Detail.
Principal photography began in Pittsburgh in November 2016. The film had its world premiere at the New York Film Festival on September 28, 2017, and was released in the United States by Amazon Studios and Lionsgate on November 3, 2017.
Plot
In 2003, Larry "Doc" Shepherd visits the bar of Sal Nealon, a Marine veteran whom he served with in Vietnam. Sal joins Doc on an impromptu drive where Doc reveals that he has also tracked down another friend from Vietnam, now-Reverend Richard Mueller. Sal and Doc are invited to dinner with the Muellers, where Doc reveals he is recently widowed and just lost his only son in Iraq. He admits he tracked down Sal and Mueller in the hope that they would accompany him to collect the body of his son Larry Jr. and take him to his scheduled burial. Sal agrees, though Mueller is hesitant, claiming that Sal and Doc represent a dark period in his life. His wife urges him to do it, and he reluctantly agrees to accompany them.
Along the way, Sal and Mueller clash over their differing philosophies and their mutual guilt over their past; both Sal and Mueller (nicknamed the Mauler) indulged in alcohol, drugs and prostitutes while on deployment, and on one occasion used up the entire supply of then-19-year-old Doc's painkillers, which led to a needlessly painful death for one of their fellow Marines and a bad conduct discharge for Doc. Sal, who has no social filter from a head injury from the war, continually gets under Mueller's skin for having found religion, whilst Mueller expresses frustration at Sal's lack of maturity. At Dover Air Force Base, Doc requests to view the maimed body of his son, against the advice of Mueller and LtCol Willits. During the viewing, LCpl Charlie Washington, Larry Jr.'s close friend, reveals to Sal and Mueller that Larry Jr. had been killed while shopping at an Iraqi market, contrary to the official story of dying while fighting heroically; Sal reveals the truth to a disillusioned Doc, who refuses the Arlington National Cemetery burial and insists on giving Larry Jr. a civilian burial. Willits orders Washington to accompany the body and coerce Doc into changing his mind about having his son buried in civilian clothing.
Sal, Mueller and Doc begin a long road trip back home, waylaid by the Department of Homeland Security (alerted by their cash rental, vague destination and Mueller's praying) and a missed train in New York City. Over the course of the journey, the clashing becomes more good natured and Doc begins to boost in the company of his friends. Sal asks Doc to move to his town to run the bar with him, and the three purchase their first cell phones to stay in contact. Their trip takes them to Boston where Sal insists that they meet the mother of Jimmy Hightower, the fellow Marine who died painfully without morphine. When they arrive, they realise that Mrs. Hightower was given the same story about her son's heroism that Doc was given about Larry Jr.; Sal decides not to deny her the story and the trio pretend to have been the men that Hightower saved when he was killed in action.
The group return to Portsmouth for Larry Jr.'s funeral, and where Washington persuades Doc that Larry's civilian suit will be too small and he should be buried in his dress blues. At the burial, Sal and Mueller wear their uniforms, and participate in the flag-folding ceremony. Back at Doc's house, Washington gives Doc a letter from Larry Jr., claiming not to have read it. Doc reads his wishes: to be buried beside his mother wearing his uniform. Doc smiles as his son thanks him for being a great father.
Cast
* Steve Carell as Larry "Doc" Shepherd
* Bryan Cranston as Sal Nealon
* Laurence Fishburne as Richard Mueller
* J. Quinton Johnson as Charlie Washington
* Cicely Tyson as Mrs. Hightower
* Deanna Reed-Foster as Ruth Mueller
* Yul Vazquez as Lieutenant Colonel Willits
* Richard Robichaux as Anorak
* Lee Harrington as Jamie
* Kate Easton as Jackie
* Graham Wolfe as John Redman
* Ted Watts Jr. (as Ted Watts) as Leland
* Jane Mowder as a Rental Truck Employee
* Marc Moore (as Marc Moore Jr) as a Hyped-up Employee
* Samuel Davis as Larry Jr. (voice)
Production
In August 2016, it was announced that Richard Linklater would direct from a script co-written with Darryl Ponicsan, based on Ponicsan's novel, and Amazon Studios would produce and distribute the film. Bryan Cranston, Steve Carell, and Laurence Fishburne were the first actors cast in the film. In October 2016, J. Quinton Johnson joined the cast. Richard Robichaux's casting was announced in November. Principal photography began in November 2016 in Pittsburgh.
Release
The film had its world premiere at the New York Film Festival on September 28, 2017. It was scheduled to be released on November 17, 2017, but was moved forward to November 3, 2017, when Lionsgate was announced to co-distribute the film alongside Amazon Studios.
Reception
On review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes, the film has an approval rating of 77% based on 220 reviews, with an average rating of 7.1/10. The website's critical consensus reads, "Last Flag Flying balances raw drama against refreshing moments of humor in an impeccably cast film that wrestles with questions of patriotism, family, and grief." On Metacritic, the film has a weighted average score of 65 out of 100, based on 45 critics, indicating "generally favorable reviews".
Writing for Rolling Stone, Peter Travers gave the film 3 out of 4 stars, praising the cast but criticizing some of the writing, saying, "Linklater can't protect them from all the script's potholes, including sentiment, contrivance and a galling mixed-message ending. But spending time in the company of Carell, Cranston and Fishburne? That truly is a pleasure." | WIKI |
Carbon Tetrachloride
EPA Maximum
Contaminant Level (MCL)
0.005 mg/L
Carbon tetrachloride is an organic chemical used in the manufacture of chlorofluorocarbon refrigerants (Freon®), cleaning agents, solvents and fire extinguishers. It has also been used in the manufacture of paints, ink, plastics, semiconductors, pesticides and gasoline. Use of carbon tetrachloride has dropped significantly since the 1980s, due to environmental concerns regarding its role in ozone depletion.
Most carbon tetrachloride arrives in the atmosphere, where it degrades very slowly, with a half-life of 18-80 years. It can be released into the environment through industrial wastewater, and has been found in significant amounts in water supplies in the United States.
Health Effects of Carbon Tetrachloride
Exposure to carbon tetrachloride can have effects on the kidney and liver, and neurological effects, including nausea, depression, indigestion and narcosis. Long term exposure can lead to liver problems and an increased risk of cancer, according to the EPA:
Some people who drink water containing carbon tetrachloride in excess of the maximum contaminant level [0.005 milligrams per Liter] over many years could experience problems with their liver and may have an increased risk of getting cancer.
Carbon tetrachloride is classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer as being “possibly carcinogenic” to humans. It is a known animal carcinogen, but evidence in humans remains inconclusive.
Water Treatment for Carbon Tetrachloride
Carbon tetrachloride can be treated with air stripping (95% removal) or activated carbon filtration. Like most volatile organic chemicals, it is best removed by carbon with a high micropore count. Coconut shell carbon is the carbon of choice with carbon tetrachloride and other VOCs.
Reverse Osmosis removes 70% to 80% of carbon tetrachloride.
Source: Enting Engineering Handbook, WHO, EPA, Wikipedia, Photo: WikiMedia, author: Secl.
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Keeping healthy by managing stress
Everyone has stress in their lives at some point. Between careers, school, or money (or the lack thereof), we all face stressful situations. But how we deal with them controls how much the stress affects our mindsets and health.
For some, stress can lead to increased weight gain.
“When our body is under stress, we go into fight-or-flight mode,” says Allison Haring, RD and member of the Michigan Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. “During fight-or-flight, our bodies release the hormone cortisol. This can be related to weight gain, especially if the stress is chronic and the hormone is not turned off.”
Stress can affect eating patterns.
Some forego eating because they may think they’re too busy. This can put added stress on our bodies as well as cause overeating when they get the chance to eat. “If someone restricts themselves when it comes time to eat, they may reach for the wrong foods because they are so famished,” notes Haring. Others may be so focused on the problem at hand, they do not realize their true hunger levels and they eat mindlessly. Cindy from Lake Odessa can relate. “I tend to eat whatever is in front of me. And I’ll eat a lot faster than normal so by the time I realize what I’m doing, it’s usually too late and I’ve eaten way too many calories.”
These mindless habits can have consequences.
“The cortisol released typically correlates with making people crave foods higher in fats and sugars and that are more calorically dense,” says Haring. Cindy agrees noting she usually goes towards easy to find foods. “It is things like chips and ice cream…and I don’t really even like ice cream. It’s never fruits or vegetables.” Not only can stress lead to poor eating habits, this type of pattern can lead to feelings of regret or further stress, worsening the situation.
Being aware of the foods we eat may help calm our bodies.
“Foods such as spinach, dark chocolate, oatmeal, salmon, tea, or pistachios have vitamins and minerals that can help calm our bodies and soothe our stress,” says Haring. “Having healthier snacks can help alleviate some of the added stress that can come with stress eating.”
There are approaches to help disconnect our stress levels with food.
• Eat breakfast – this will help you maintain stable blood sugar levels and give you more effective functioning and thought processing.
• Lay off the caffeine – relying on those cups of coffee to get you through the stress may be making matters worse. Try green tea which has lower caffeine and more antioxidants.
• Keep snacks handy – having a healthy, pre-portioned snack on hand will help tide you over when you don’t think you have time to eat.
• Keep your kryptonite out of sight – if you know candy or chips are your downfall, don’t leave them in visible areas. You will be less likely to grab mindlessly if you aren’t staring at them all day.
• Find a hobby – Haring suggests one that uses your hands. “Hobbies like knitting or playing an instrument not only can calm you, but help take your mind off eating so you don’t associate food with stress.”
• Identify what actually causes the stress – is it deadlines or that you procrastinated? Once you know what causes your stress, you are closer to learning how to control and/or avoid it.
• Saying ‘no’ is ok – know your limits and try to not overcommit yourself
• Recharge yourself – go for a walk, take a long bath, call a friend, light some scented candles… take care of yourself and try to keep a balanced perspective. Haring recommends having an ‘out.’ Do something that calms you down like walking the dog or listening to music to help you stay tuned into your body.
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DIP 1016--ref T accepts r-values--Formal Assessment
Andrei Alexandrescu SeeWebsiteForEmail at erdani.org
Tue Jan 29 11:45:26 UTC 2019
On 1/29/19 3:35 AM, Manu wrote:
> 1. All of this is more useful criticism than the official and final
> criticism affixed to the rejection, which when revised to remove the
> incorrect criticisms, is basically left with the text "The Language
> Maintainers found other issues with the proposal, most of which may
> have been remedied through simple revision"
No. This is a nonnegotiable matter:
void bump(ref int x) { ++x; }
short y = 42;
bump(y);
assert(y == 43); // fails
The code above should not compile. The DIP allows it to compile. We
didn't see how the DIP can be lightly edited to fix this problem, so we
recommended a complete rethinking and rewrite.
> 2. All of this criticism could have been given at any point in the
> past half a year or so prior to submission, and that would have been
> appreciated, rather than wasting our time.
We have given this criticism ever since ten years ago when you brought
the matter up. Literally every time, including in person. Whenever you
said "why not bind rvalues to ref?" we religiously replied with
(paraphrased of course) "We are worried about rvalues resulting from
implicit conversion of lvalues. You'd need to find a solution to that."
It is truly remarkable that DIP 1016 provides not only a solution to the
problem, but almost neglects to mention it.
> 3. "It does not influence our decision and should not be construed as
> an essential aspect of the review" <-- Then why did it feature as
> one of just 3 core criticism in the rejection text? And supplied as
> one of the 2 reasons that could not "have been remedied through simple
> revision".
If the matter above can be resolve through simple revision that would be
great. I don't think it can, but would love to be proven wrong!
> 4. "Under DIP 1016, a call with any T[] will silently "succeed" by
> converting the slice to void[]" <-- Do you mean "... with any T[]
> rvalue ..."? What would be the aim of that call? Can you suggest a
> particularly sinister construction?
I am talking about this:
int[] a = cast(int[]) alloc.allocate(100 * int.sizeof);
if (alloc.reallocate(a, 200 * int.sizeof)
{
assert(a.length == 200);
}
By applying the lowering rules in the DIP (including your pending
revision), the code is lowered to:
int[] a = cast(int[]) alloc.allocate(100 * int.sizeof);
void[] __temp0 = a;
if (alloc.reallocate(__temp0, 200 * int.sizeof)
{
assert(a.length == 200);
}
The code is far from sinister. But the assertion will fail.
I want to make sure there is mutual understanding that:
1. DIP 1016 proposes this semantics
2. We do not accept this semantics
Even if there is no agreement with (2), these are facts that I want to
make sure are understood by everyone involved - you, us, the rest of the
community.
> 5. "and recommended that it be rewritten simply because it would be
> easier and would engender a stronger DIP." <-- I wrote the DIP I
> wrote... your official feedback affixed to the bottom of the DIP was
> pretty much entirely unhelpful, almost offensively so. I would just
> write the same DIP if I started again. I genuinely hope someone can be
> bothered to do this. After 10 years on this, I think I'm over it.
I am sorry you found the review unfit for your needs. I thought it puts
the main matter plain and simple: we do not accept code like this:
void bump(ref int x) { ++x; }
short y = 42;
bump(y);
assert(y == 43); // fails
Honest, I don't think you have spent 10 years on this DIP. It is not
thorough work and fails to address the main problem it was supposed to
address: The one above.
> 6. "This result was frustrating and disheartening on our side, too: a
> stronger DIP ..." <-- I'm sorry you hated it. You could have
> reviewed it at any point, made suggestions at any point, written it
> yourself, or encouraged someone competent to do it.
We didn't hate it. We made suggestions literally every time you brought
up the issue over the past decade. For my part, I have no idea what more
input I could have provided. "Solve the rvalues coming from implicit
conversions" is all feedback the DIP needs.
> 7. Your general tone is superior, as usual.
No need to attempt to make this personal, and claim the moral ground in
the process. Nobody is after you. We all want the D language to become
better. The DIP is not good. This is what it is.
All is not lost - the DIP is a good inspiration for a couple of ideas
that deserve investigation. It seems that allowing _only_ rvalues to be
bound to ref may work. I'm cautious because there may be cases we didn't
think of.
Andrei
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Soviet submarine L-4
The World War II Soviet submarine L-4 belonged to the L class or Leninets-class submarine of minelayer submarines. She had been named Garibaldets in honour of the men of Garibaldi. During the war she was commanded by Evgeniy Petrovich Polyakov (Евгений Петрович Поляков).
Service history
For her service, the submarine was awarded the Order of the Red Banner. Among her victories was the torpedoing of the German tanker Friederike (formerly Firuz), whose loss prevented her use during the Axis evacuation of Crimea during the Crimean Offensive.
In 1944 Michman Ivan Perov was awarded Hero of the Soviet Union.
Mines from L-4 also damaged the German barge F-130. During an artillery duel she damaged the German barge F-329. | WIKI |
#pragma once #include #include #include #include #include namespace db { class MucLogLine; } struct ListElement; /** * A callback called when the waited iq result is received (it is matched * against the iq id) */ using iq_responder_callback_t = std::function; /** * Interact with the Biboumi Bridge */ class BiboumiComponent: public XmppComponent { public: explicit BiboumiComponent(std::shared_ptr poller, const std::string& hostname, const std::string& secret); ~BiboumiComponent() = default; BiboumiComponent(const BiboumiComponent&) = delete; BiboumiComponent(BiboumiComponent&&) = delete; BiboumiComponent& operator=(const BiboumiComponent&) = delete; BiboumiComponent& operator=(BiboumiComponent&&) = delete; /** * Returns the bridge for the given user. If it does not exist, return * nullptr. */ Bridge* find_user_bridge(const std::string& full_jid); /** * Return a list of all the managed bridges. */ std::vector get_bridges() const; /** * Send a "close" message to all our connected peers. That message * depends on the protocol used (this may be a QUIT irc message, or a * , etc). We may also directly close the connection, or we may * wait for the remote peer to acknowledge it before closing. */ void shutdown(); /** * Run a check on all bridges, to remove all disconnected (socket is * closed, or no channel is joined) IrcClients. Some kind of garbage collector. */ void clean(); /** * Send a result IQ with the gateway disco informations. */ void send_self_disco_info(const std::string& id, const std::string& jid_to); /** * Send a result IQ with the disco informations regarding IRC server JIDs. */ void send_irc_server_disco_info(const std::string& id, const std::string& jid_to, const std::string& jid_from); /** * Send an iq version request */ void send_iq_version_request(const std::string& from, const std::string& jid_to); /** * Send a ping request */ void send_ping_request(const std::string& from, const std::string& jid_to, const std::string& id); /** * Send the channels list in one big stanza */ void send_iq_room_list_result(const std::string& id, const std::string& to_jid, const std::string& from, const std::vector& rooms_list); void send_invitation(const std::string& room_target, const std::string& jid_to, const std::string& author_nick); /** * Handle the various stanza types */ void handle_presence(const Stanza& stanza); void handle_message(const Stanza& stanza); void handle_iq(const Stanza& stanza); #ifdef USE_DATABASE bool handle_mam_request(const Stanza& stanza); void send_archived_message(const db::MucLogLine& log_line, const std::string& from, const std::string& to, const std::string& queryid); #endif private: /** * Return the bridge associated with the bare JID. Create a new one * if none already exist. */ Bridge* get_user_bridge(const std::string& user_jid); /** * A map of id -> callback. When we want to wait for an iq result, we add * the callback to this map, with the iq id as the key. When an iq result * is received, we look for a corresponding callback in this map. If * found, we call it and remove it. */ std::map waiting_iq; /** * One bridge for each user of the component. Indexed by the user's bare * jid */ std::unordered_map> bridges; AdhocCommandsHandler irc_server_adhoc_commands_handler; AdhocCommandsHandler irc_channel_adhoc_commands_handler; }; | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Setup Java local profile
Prerequisites
At this point it is assumed, that the initial setup and the mandatory commands of the Solution CLI have been performed and executed as described here.
Now its always helpful if you can run, test and debug your service project locally. To achieve that we need to provide some needed configuration.
Configuration approaches
• Have a valid deployed project and use its k8s configuration maps to load bindings for your database and Kafka.
• Provide configuration values to connect to your local database and Kafka broker.
Warning:
If you choose to use deployed project k8s configuration maps, you need to log in to your OpenShift cluster via oc CLI and run proper oc proxy command to be able to connect to your OpenShift namespace Database and Kafka clusters.
Setting up local profile
Tip:
Use /src/main/resources/application-local.template.yaml as the basis to create an application-local.yaml file and override properties needed for the local profile.
First add your service project acronym:
solution:
acronym : "project acronym"
Dependent on the features relevant for your project, please see below sections for further configurations (database, kafka, Swagger UI settings).
OpenShift k5-project namespace bindings
Note:
How to use bindings from the OpenShift k5-project is depending on whether your project is based on Java Spring Boot Stack 1.0 or Java Spring Boot Stack 2.0
Java Spring Boot Stack 2.0
To load bindings from the OpenShift k5-project namespace use the following configuration:
k5.sdk.springboot.kubernetes.namespace: <k5-Project>
Java Spring Boot Stack 1.0 (Deprecated)
To load bindings from the OpenShift k5-project namespace use the following configuration:
de:
knowis:
cp:
consumer:
kubernetes:
namespace: <k5-Project>
Auto configuration features
Adjust the following configuration for toggling deployment features: (only affecting project during local runtime, not to be confused with Extensions)
# To enable / disable some auto configuration features
feature:
# toggle security for rest apis - if turned off, api calls are no longer secured
security:
enabled: true
# toggle openapi - if turned off, openapi specification is no longer used
openapi:
enabled: true
# toggle narayana security - if turned off, saga transactions are no longer secured
secure-narayana:
enabled: true
Database configuration
Depending on your service project selected Persistence Type or , you can configure your database as below.
MongoDB persistence
Load MongoDB configuration from k8s configuration map
spring:
data:
mongodb:
secretName: # read from kubernetes secret
To access a local MongoDB, you can set the spring.data.mongodb.uri property to change the URL and configure additional settings, as shown in the following example:
spring:
data:
mongodb:
uri: mongodb://<username>:<secret>@<host>:<port>/<database>
database: <database>
Alternatively, you can specify connection details using discrete properties. For example, you might declare the following settings as shown below:
spring:
data:
mongodb:
host: <host>
port: <port>
database: <database>
username: <username>
password: <password>
RDBMS Persistence
To access your service project RDBMS database, you need to add below configuration
spring:
datasource:
url: "jdbc:<subprotocol name>://<host>:<port>/<database-name>"
username: <user name>
password: <password>
driver-class-name: <Your database driver class>
Kafka configurations
Load event topic binding configuration from k8s secret(s)
1. You need to add your k5-project as described in Here
2. You need to have proper oc proxy and oc port forwarding to be able to access your OpenShift k5 project event topic binding secret(s) and their configured Kafka cluster.
Alternatively, you can configure to use your Kafka broker and your own local topic binding secret(s).
1. Install and configure your Kafka broker see https://kafka.apache.org/quickstart
2. For each topic add proper event topic binding configuration like below
Java Spring Boot Stack 2.0
k5.sdk.springboot.binding.topic:
topicBindings:
<Topic-Alias-1>:
topicName: "<Kafka topic name>"
kafkaBinding: "<Kafka-Secret-1>"
<Topic-Alias-2>:
topicName: "<Kafka topic name>"
kafkaBinding: "<Kafka-Secret-2>"
kafkaBindings:
<Kafka-Secret-1>:
kafka_brokers_sasl: ""
password: ""
user: ""
<Kafka-Secret-2>:
kafka_brokers_sasl: ""
password: ""
user: ""
Java Spring Boot Stack 1.0 (Deprecated)
de.knowis.cp.binding.topic:
topicBindings:
<Topic-Alias-1>:
topicName: "<Kafka topic name>"
kafkaBinding: "<Kafka-Secret-1>"
<Topic-Alias-2>:
topicName: "<Kafka topic name>"
kafkaBinding: "<Kafka-Secret-2>"
kafkaBindings:
<Kafka-Secret-1>:
kafka_brokers_sasl: ""
password: ""
user: ""
<Kafka-Secret-2>:
kafka_brokers_sasl: ""
password: ""
user: ""
Note:
Kafka broker user and password are optional if your Kafka broker is not secured.
Swagger UI
To use a Swagger UI for local development, the Swagger UI Support extension needs to be enabled. You can enable the extension for your project via the extensions page in the Solution Designer.
After starting the application locally, the Swagger UI can be accessed from the following URL: localhost:8080/{service-acronym}/swagger-ui/index.html
Tip:
The Swagger UI URL is dependent on the configured path in your application.yaml or application-local.yaml. We recommend to set the value of springdoc.swagger-ui.path to /${solution.acronym}/swagger-ui to make use of the above described URL. If no specific value is set, the Swagger UI will be available under localhost:8080/swagger-ui/index.html
For proper usage of a clientId in the Swagger UI, please ensure that you use the following settings in your application-local.yaml:
springdoc:
swagger-ui:
oauth:
clientId: <client-id>
If you have spring-security-oauth2-client on your classpath, you can take advantage of some auto configuration to set up an OAuth2/Open ID Connect client, as shown in the following example:
spring:
security:
oauth2:
client: #Spring Security OAuth2 config
provider:
default:
issuer-uri: <issuer-uri>
<client-id>:
jwk-set-uri: <jwk-set-uri>
token-uri: <token-uri>
issuer-uri: <issuer-uri>
registration:
default:
client-id: <client-id>
<client-id>: # only required if the access type of the client is not public
client-id: <client-id>
client-secret: <secret>
Schema registry configurations
Note:
How to configure a schema registry for local development, is depending on whether your project is based on Java Spring Boot Stack 1.0 or Java Spring Boot Stack 2.0
Java Spring Boot Stack 2.0
To configure a schema registry for local development, please use the following settings:
k5.sdk.springboot.schema-registry:
schemaRegistryConfig:
schemaRegistryUrl: <schema-registry-url>
schemaAuthServerUrl: <schema-auth-server-url>
authRealm: <auth-realm>
clientSecret: <client-secret-token>
clientId: <client-id>
Java Spring Boot Stack 1.0 (Deprecated)
To configure a schema registry for local development, please use the following settings:
de.knowis.schema-registry:
schemaRegistryConfig:
schemaRegistryUrl: <schema-registry-url>
schemaAuthServerUrl: <schema-auth-server-url>
authRealm: <auth-realm>
clientSecret: <client-secret-token>
clientId: <client-id>
Note:
Please consider, that the LRA coordinator might not be able to trigger the callbacks if your service is running locally
Configure OAuth settings
In order to communicate with the lra-coordinator when security is enabled, it is required to configure an additional client to be able to call the lra-coordinator.
To configure the additional client, please use the following settings (e.g. you can get the values from secret dashboard-oauth-client-secret):
spring:
security:
oauth2:
client:
provider:
<the_client_registration_id>:
token-uri: "<the_token_uri>"
jwk-set-uri: "<the_jwk_set_uri>"
registration:
<the_client_registration_id>:
client-id: "<the_client_id>"
client-secret: "<the_client_secret>"
authorizationGrantType: "client_credentials"
k5:
sdk:
springboot:
oidc:
clientRegistrationId: "<the_client_registration_id>"
Running with local profile
Create a new Run Configuration for a Java Application. Pass the configuration below as jvm arguments to use the local profile.
-Dspring.profiles.active=local
Further configurations
Note:
This is only relevant for projects based on Java Spring Boot Stack 2.0
According to the following issue https://github.com/spring-projects/spring-data-mongodb/issues/4237, using date or dateTime properties in entities or root entities can cause problems. To mitigate this problem, please adjust your run configuration and add --add-opens=java.base/java.time=ALL-UNNAMED so that it looks like the following:
-Dspring.profiles.active=local --add-opens=java.base/java.time=ALL-UNNAMED
Build and run the code.
Note:
Refer to Spring Boot's official documentation for more details on Database and Kafka additional configuration. | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
higher-level NLP built on Spacy
Python
README.rst
textacy: higher-level NLP built on spaCy
textacy is a Python library for performing higher-level natural language processing (NLP) tasks, built on the high-performance spaCy library. With the basics --- tokenization, part-of-speech tagging, dependency parsing, etc. --- offloaded to another library, textacy focuses on tasks facilitated by the ready availability of tokenized, POS-tagged, and parsed text.
Features
• Stream text, json, csv, and spaCy binary data to and from disk
• Clean and normalize raw text, before analyzing it
• Explore included corpora of Congressional speeches and Supreme Court decisions, or stream documents from standard Wikipedia pages and Reddit comments datasets
• Access and filter basic linguistic elements, such as words and ngrams, noun chunks and sentences
• Extract named entities, acronyms and their definitions, direct quotations, key terms, and more from documents
• Compare strings, sets, and documents by a variety of similarity metrics
• Transform documents and corpora into vectorized and semantic network representations
• Train, interpret, visualize, and save sklearn-style topic models using LSA, LDA, or NMF methods
• Identify a text's language, display key words in context (KWIC), true-case words, and navigate a parse tree
... and more!
Installation
The simple way to install textacy is
$ pip install textacy
There are a couple optional dependencies, most notably matplotlib, which is used for visualizations. If you need that functionality, be sure you have matplotlib installed already, or install it along with all of textacy 's other dependencies via
$ pip install textacy[viz]
If pip isn't an option, you can download and unzip the source tar.gz from PyPi, then
$ python setup.py install
Example
>>> import textacy
Efficiently stream documents from disk and into a processed corpus:
>>> cw = textacy.corpora.CapitolWords()
>>> docs = cw.records(speaker_name={'Hillary Clinton', 'Barack Obama'})
>>> content_stream, metadata_stream = textacy.fileio.split_record_fields(
... docs, 'text')
>>> corpus = textacy.Corpus('en', texts=content_stream, metadatas=metadata_stream)
>>> corpus
Corpus(1241 docs; 857058 tokens)
Represent corpus as a document-term matrix, with flexible weighting and filtering:
>>> doc_term_matrix, id2term = textacy.vsm.doc_term_matrix(
... (doc.to_terms_list(ngrams=1, named_entities=True, as_strings=True)
... for doc in corpus),
... weighting='tfidf', normalize=True, smooth_idf=True, min_df=2, max_df=0.95)
>>> print(repr(doc_term_matrix))
<1241x11364 sparse matrix of type '<class 'numpy.float64'>'
with 211602 stored elements in Compressed Sparse Row format>
Train and interpret a topic model:
>>> model = textacy.tm.TopicModel('nmf', n_topics=10)
>>> model.fit(doc_term_matrix)
>>> doc_topic_matrix = model.transform(doc_term_matrix)
>>> doc_topic_matrix.shape
(1241, 10)
>>> for topic_idx, top_terms in model.top_topic_terms(id2term, top_n=10):
... print('topic', topic_idx, ':', ' '.join(top_terms))
topic 0 : new people 's american senate need iraq york americans work
topic 1 : rescind quorum order consent unanimous ask president mr. madam aside
topic 2 : dispense reading amendment unanimous consent ask president mr. pending aside
topic 3 : health care child mental quality patient medical program information family
topic 4 : student school education college child teacher high program loan year
topic 5 : senators desiring chamber vote 4,600 amtrak rail airline litigation expedited
topic 6 : senate thursday wednesday session unanimous consent authorize p.m. committee ask
topic 7 : medicare drug senior medicaid prescription benefit plan cut cost fda
topic 8 : flu vaccine avian pandemic roberts influenza seasonal outbreak health cdc
topic 9 : virginia west virginia west senator yield question thank objection inquiry massachusetts
Basic indexing as well as flexible selection of documents in a corpus:
>>> obama_docs = list(corpus.get(
... lambda doc: doc.metadata['speaker_name'] == 'Barack Obama'))
>>> len(obama_docs)
411
>>> doc = corpus[-1]
>>> doc
Doc(2999 tokens; "In the Federalist Papers, we often hear the ref...")
Preprocess plain text, or highlight particular terms in it:
>>> textacy.preprocess_text(doc.text, lowercase=True, no_punct=True)[:70]
'in the federalist papers we often hear the reference to the senates ro'
>>> textacy.text_utils.keyword_in_context(doc.text, 'America', window_width=35)
g on this tiny piece of Senate and America n history. Some 10 years ago, I ask
o do the hard work in New York and America , who get up every day and do the v
say: You know, you never can count America out. Whenever the chips are down,
what we know will give our fellow America ns a better shot at the kind of fut
aith in this body and in my fellow America ns. I remain an optimist, that Amer
ricans. I remain an optimist, that America 's best days are still ahead of us.
Extract various elements of interest from parsed documents:
>>> list(textacy.extract.ngrams(
... doc, 2, filter_stops=True, filter_punct=True, filter_nums=False))[:15]
[Federalist Papers,
Senate's,
's role,
violent passions,
pernicious resolutions,
everlasting credit,
common ground,
8 years,
tiny piece,
American history,
10 years,
years ago,
New York,
fellow New,
New Yorkers]
>>> list(textacy.extract.ngrams(
... doc, 3, filter_stops=True, filter_punct=True, min_freq=2))
[fellow New Yorkers,
World Trade Center,
Senator from New,
World Trade Center,
Senator from New,
lot of fun,
fellow New Yorkers,
lot of fun]
>>> list(textacy.extract.named_entities(
... doc, drop_determiners=True, exclude_types='numeric'))[:10]
[Senate,
Senate,
American,
New York,
New Yorkers,
Senate,
Barbara Mikulski,
Senate,
Pennsylvania Avenue,
Senate]
>>> pattern = textacy.constants.POS_REGEX_PATTERNS['en']['NP']
>>> pattern
<DET>? <NUM>* (<ADJ> <PUNCT>? <CONJ>?)* (<NOUN>|<PROPN> <PART>?)+
>>> list(textacy.extract.pos_regex_matches(doc, pattern))[:10]
[the Federalist Papers,
the reference,
the Senate's role,
the consequences,
sudden and violent passions,
intemperate and pernicious resolutions,
the everlasting credit,
wisdom,
our Founders,
an effort]
>>> list(textacy.extract.semistructured_statements(doc, 'I', cue='be'))
[(I, was, on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue),
(I, was, , a very new Senator, and my city and my State had been devastated),
(I, am, grateful to have had Senator Schumer as my partner and my ally),
(I, am, very excited about what can happen in the next 4 years),
(I, been, a New Yorker, but I know I always will be one)]
>>> textacy.keyterms.textrank(doc, n_keyterms=10)
[('day', 0.01608508275877894),
('people', 0.015079868730811194),
('year', 0.012330783590843065),
('way', 0.011732786337383587),
('colleague', 0.010794482493897155),
('new', 0.0104941198408241),
('time', 0.010016582029543003),
('work', 0.0096498231660789),
('lot', 0.008960478625039818),
('great', 0.008552318032915361)]
Compute common statistical attributes of a text:
>>> textacy.text_stats.readability_stats(doc)
{'automated_readability_index': 12.549920902265107,
'coleman_liau_index': 9.882109957869638,
'flesch_kincaid_grade_level': 10.65744148341702,
'flesch_readability_ease': 63.02302106124765,
'gunning_fog_index': 13.493768200349448,
'n_chars': 11498,
'n_polysyllable_words': 222,
'n_sents': 101,
'n_syllables': 3525,
'n_unique_words': 1107,
'n_words': 2516,
'smog_index': 11.598657798783282}
Count terms individually, and represent documents as a bag-of-terms with flexible weighting and inclusion criteria:
>>> doc.count('America')
3
>>> bot = doc.to_bag_of_terms(ngrams={2, 3}, as_strings=True)
>>> sorted(bot.items(), key=lambda x: x[1], reverse=True)[:10]
[('new york', 18),
('senate', 8),
('first', 6),
('state', 4),
('9/11', 3),
('look forward', 3),
('america', 3),
('new yorkers', 3),
('chuck', 3),
('lot of fun', 2)]
Project Links
Authors
Roadmap
1. document clustering
2. media framing analysis (?)
3. deep neural network model for text summarization
4. deep neural network model for sentiment analysis | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Tariq Khan
Tariq Khan or Tarik Kahn may refer to:
* Tarik Khan (Pennsylvania politician), American politician
* Tariq Khan (actor) (born 1951), Indian actor from Bollywood
* Tariq Khan (general), Pakistan Army general
* Tariq Khan (Guantanamo detainee), Pakistani held first by an Afghan warlord and then in Guantanamo Bay
* Tariq Azim Khan, Pakistani politician
* Tariq Kamal Khan (born 1930), Pakistani military official
* Tariq Pervez Khan (1948–2020), Chief Justice of the Peshawar High Court, Pakistan
* Tariq Umar Khan (born 1976), Indian production designer, art director, and film director | WIKI |
#!/usr/bin/perl use warnings; use DBI; print "Please Enter DataBase Name:-\n"; my $DataBase = ; print "Please Enter UserName:-\n"; my $UserName = ; print "Please Enter Password:-\n"; my $Password = ; #You're 'using' strict.pm, yet you are attempting to create global variables by writing #"$dbh = ... ". Just change that line to my $dbh = DBI -> connect($DSN,$user,$pass);, #and the same for $sth etc. That makes them local to the file and thus scoped. my $dbh = DBI->connect('dbi:mysql:database=$DataBase',$UserName,$Password) or die "Error: $DBI::errstr\n"; print "Program Ends\n"; print "Database Connected\n"; my $sql1 = "show tables"; my $sql = "select * from student"; print "Table Connected\n"; my $sth = $dbh->prepare($sql); my $sth1 = $dbh->prepare($sql1); $sth->execute or die "SQL Error: $DBI::errstr\n"; $sth1->execute or die "SQL Error: $DBI::errstr\n"; while (my @row = $sth->fetchrow_array) { print "@row\n"; } while (my @row = $sth1->fetchrow_array) { print "@row\n"; } | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Strategy-like Pattern in PHP
Today, I had some time to write a little program while I was watching people work on the infrastructure at the office. I wrote up a couple of functions that calculated the n-th Fibonacci number, and wanted to display the sequence of the first 100 numbers as they were calculated by these functions. At first, I had something like the following:
<?php
for( $i = 1; $i < = 100; ++$i )
{
printf( "%d ", fibonacci_tabularized( $i ) );
}
for( $i = 1; $i < = 100; ++$i )
{
printf( "%d, ", fibonacci_iterative( $i ) );
}
for( $i = 1; $i < = 100; ++$i )
{
printf( "%d, ", fibonacci_recursive( $i ) );
}
?>
I quickly realized how horrible it was. That sure is a lot of duplicate code! So, I ended up rewriting it so that it looks like this:
<?php
function print_fibonacci_sequence( $strategy, $n )
{
for( $i = 1; $i < = $n; ++$i )
{
printf( "%d, ", $strategy($n) );
}
printf( "\r\n" );
}
$strategies = array(
"fibonacci_tabularized",
"fibonacci_iterative",
"fibonacci_recursive"
);
foreach( $strategies as $strategy )
{
print_fibonacci_sequence( $strategy, 100 );
}
?>
Questions, comments, and responses are welcomed. Spam is really not.
Leave a Reply | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Ivatan phrasebook
Ivatan (Chirin nu Ibatan) is a Batanic branch of Austronesian language family spoken mainly in the Batanes Islands in the Philippines, and also in southern Taiwan.
Vowels
* a
* as in father
* e
* as in vowel
* i
* as in ease
* o
* as in orange
* u
* as in loose
Consonants
* b
* as in big
* ch
* as in cheese
* d
* as in did
* f
* as in for
* g
* as in goat
* h
* as in house
* j
* as in hope
* k
* as in kite
* l
* as in lamb
* m
* as in moon
* n
* as in net
* ng
* as in sing
* ny
* as in canyon
* p
* as in pit
* r
* as in rat
* s
* as in some
* t
* as in toy
* v
* as in vice
* w
* as in wow
Common diphthongs
* aw
* as in wow
* iw
* as in kiwi
* ay
* as in die
* ey
* as in day
* oy
* as in boy
Basics
* Hello. :Kapian kapa nu dios. (kah-PYAHN kah pah noo JAWSS)
* Hello. (informal) : . ( )
* How are you? :Ara ka mangu? (AH-rah kah MAH-ngoo?)
* Fine, thank you. :Taytu ako a mapia. Dios mamajes. (TIGH-too AH-koo ah MAH-pyah. JAWSS mah-MAH-huhss)
* What is your name? :Angu ngaran mo? (ah-NGOO NGAH-rahn maw?)
* My name is ______ . :U ngaran ko am ______ . (oo NGAH-rahn kaw ahm _____ .)
* Nice to meet you. : Mapya ta nasinchad ku imu. (mah-PYAH tah nah-SEEN-chahd koo EE-moo)
* Please. : . ( )
* Thank you. :Dios mamajes. (JAWSS mah-MAH-huhss)
* You're welcome. : . ( )
* Yes. :Oon. ( )
* No. : . ( )
* Excuse me. (getting attention) : . ( )
* Excuse me. (begging pardon) : . ( )
* I'm sorry. : . ( )
* Goodbye : .Dios mavidin (JAWSS mah-VEE-dihn)
* Goodbye (informal) : . ( )
* I can't speak Ivatan [well]. : Makapaychirin aku ava su ?????? [ ]. (mah-kah-pigh-CHEE-rihn AH-koo AH-vah soo ?????? [ ])
* Do you speak English? :Mañinglish ka? (mah-nyihng-LEESH kah?)
* Is there someone here who speaks English? : ? ( ?)
* Help! : ! ( !)
* Look out! : ! ( !)
* Good morning. :Kapian ka pa nu Dios sichamavukas (kah-PYAHN kah pah noo see-chah mah-VOO-kahss)
* Good noon. :Kapian ka pa nu Dios maraw
* Good afternoon. :Kapian ka pa nu Dios sichamakuyab. (kah-PYAHN kah pah noo mah-KOO-yahb)
* Good evening. :Kapian ka pa nu Dios sichamahep. (kah-PYAHN kah pah noo see chah MAH-huhp)
* Good night (to sleep) : . ( )
* I don't understand. :Maintindi ku ava. (mah-een-TEEN-dee koo AH-vah)
* Where is the toilet? : ? ( ?)
Numbers
* 1
* asa
* 2
* dadua
* 3
* tatdo
* 4
* apat
* 5
* dadima
* 6
* anem
* 7
* papito
* 8
* wawaho
* 9
* sasyam
* 10
* asa puho
* 11
* asa sicharua
* 12
* dadua sicharua
* 13
* tatdu sicharua
* 14
* apat sicharua
* 15
* dadima sicharua
* 16
* anem sicharua
* 17
* papito sicharua
* 18
* wawaho sicharua
* 19
* sasyam sicharua
* 20
* dadua puho
* 21
* dadwa a puho kan asa
* 22
* dadwa a puho kan dadwa
* 23
* dadwa a puho kan tatdo
* 30
* tatdo a puho
* 40
* apat a puho
* 50
* dadima a puho
* 60
* anem a puho
* 70
* papito a puho
* 80
* wawaho a puho
* 90
* sasyam a puho
* 100
* asa yatus
* 1000
* asa livo
Colors
* Black
* Mavaweng
* Blue
* A'sul
* Brown
* Chocolati
* Dark
* Masarih
* Gray
* Mavu-avo
* Green
* Birdi
* Red
* Mavayah
* White
* Mahilak
* Yellow
* Mañujama
Days
* Sunday
* Domingo; Lumingu
* Monday
* Lunis
* Tuesday
* Martis
* Wednesday
* Miyirkolis; Mirkulis
* Thursday
* Juibis; Juybis
* Friday
* Biyernis; Birnis
* Saturday
* Sabado; Sabalu | WIKI |
Jeroen van Veen (pianist)
Jeroen van Veen (born May 1969 in Herwen en Aerdt, Gelderland) is a Dutch classical pianist and composer. He has worked both as a soloist and in collaboration with other pianists. Some of his collaborations include duo work with his brother Maarten and his wife Sandra.
Short biography
Jeroen Van Veen studied at the Utrechts Conservatorium (HKU) with Alwin Bär and Håkon Austbø. Since year 1988 he has played concerts and recitals throughout Europe and North America and recorded over 190 CDs for Mirasound, Koch, Naxos, Brilliant Classics and his own label piano. Van Veen's compositions are primarily solo piano works and could largely be described as minimal music. His latest recordings have also focused on minimal music, including a 9 CD Minimal Piano Collection box set, somewhat dominated by the music of Philip Glass, the complete piano music of George Crumb, and a collaboration on recording all of Steve Reich's Chamber music.
Among other functions, Van Veen is the director of Van Veen Productions, Piano Mania , and the Simeon ten Holt Foundation. He is also the artistic director of the Murray Dranoff Two Piano Competition, based in Miami, where he and his brother Marten van Veen were prize winners in 1995. In 2016 Van Veen received the NPO Radio 4 award; Van Veen was praised for his 'out of the box' programming and for finding new ways to attract a new audience for classical music.
Extended biography
* "Dutch pianist and composer Jeroen van Veen, the leading exponent of minimalism in Holland today, Alan Swanson (Fanfare)"
Jeroen Van Veen started playing the piano at the age of 7. He studied at the Utrechts Conservatorium with Alwin Bär and Håkon Austbö. In 1993 he passed the Performing Artists' Exam. Van Veen has played with orchestras conducted by Howard Williams (Adams), Péter Eötvös (Zimmermann) in Amsterdam, Utrecht, Vienna, and Budapest and the United States with Neal Stulberg (Mozart & Bartók) and Robert Craft (Stravinsky) He has played recitals in Austria, Belgium, Canada, England, France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Russia & the USA.
Van Veen attended master classes with Claude Helffer, Hans-Peter & Volker Stenzl, and Roberto Szidon. He was invited to several festivals, a.o. the Reder Piano Festival (1988), Festival der Kunsten in Bad Gleichenberg (1992), Wien Modern (1993), Holland Dance Festival (1998) Lek Art Festival (1996–2007). Van Veen recorded for major Dutch Radio- and Television companies like AVRO, NOS, IKON, NCRV, TROS/Internet, WTBC-TV & Radio (Florida, U.S.A.), and Moscow Television. In 1992, Van Veen recorded his first CD with his brother Maarten as the internationally recognized Piano duo Van Veen. In 1995 Piano duo Van Veen made their debut in the United States. They were prizewinners in the prestigious 4th International Murray Dranoff Two Piano Competition in Miami, Florida. After this achievement, they toured the United States and Canada many times. The documentary Two Pianos One Passion (nominated for an Emmy Award in 1996) documents them as a duo.
Besides performing, Jeroen is co-founder and artistic director of the International Student Piano Competition, which is held in Utrecht every two years. In 1995 Jeroen Van Veen founded Van Veen & Van Veen (Van Veen & Co.), a piano duo with Sandra Van Veen. As such, they mainly perform music for multiple pianos by the Dutch composer Simeon ten Holt. Furthermore, in 1999 Van Veen initiated a concert series Pianova in the Concertgebouw, Amsterdam. Besides his career as a solo pianist, Van Veen also participates in the following ensembles: Piano Ensemble, The International Piano Quartet, The Simeon Quartet, Piano Mania, DJ Piano, and Jeroen van Veen & Friends.
The various compositions by Van Veen could be described as Minimal Music with different faces, and crossovers of jazz, blues, soundscape, Avant-garde, techno, trance, and pop music. Currently, Van Veen is director of Van Veen Productions, Chairman of the Simeon ten Holt Foundation, Culemborg Cultural Foundation, Pianomania Foundation, and artistic director of several music festivals in Culemborg, Utrecht and Veldhoven. He is active in the International Utrecht Student Piano Competition and the Murray Dranoff Two Piano Competition. Over the last 25 years, Van Veen recorded more than 200 CDs for several labels (Mirasound, Koch, Naxos, Brilliant Classics) and his label PIANO.
The piano playing in Stravinsky's Les Noces surpassed that of the distinguished musicians in the composer's recording according to The New York Times. The recording of Erik Satie's music for piano four hands with Sandra van Veen was rated on Classics Today with 10 out of 10 for artistic quality and 10 out of 10 for sound quality and said it to be "...a must for Satie fans."
List of works
* Culemborg City Soundscape, (2002) (on CD)
* Weeshuis Soundscape (2005) (on tape)
* Words on Kindness, for 2 pianos and 5 voices (2006) (premiered 2006)
* 12 Minimal Preludes, BOOK I, (1999–2003) (on CD 8551) for piano
* 12 Minimal Preludes, BOOK II, (2004–2006) (on CD 8551) for piano
* In de Doelen, leadermuziek (2006) on DVD
* Tango for Amalia, Alexia & Ariane (2007) (premiered 2007) for Piano four hands
* Incanto nr 1 for two pianos (2011) on CD
* Snake it easy for 6 pianos
* Draughts for multiple pianos
* "Novosibirsk Chamber Orchestra, A. Polishchuk with Jeroen van Veen (A piano quintet composition of Antonín Dvořák, arranged for piano and String Orchestra)
* Pianomania, piano improvisations on 3 pianos.
* "Minimal Preludes, Book III & Book IV" (2007–2013)
* "NLXL" 2011
* "Incanto" II, III & IV
* "Slash" for Itzik Galili
Other official functions
* Van Veen Productions, (1995-) director
* International Students Piano Competition, Utrecht (1994-) artistic director
* Lek Art Foundation, Culemborg (1994–2007) artistic director
* Simeon ten Holt Foundation, Culemborg (2004-) chair
* Culemborg Cultureel, Culemborg (2005–2007) chair
* Ostinato Festival, Veldhoven (2006-) artistic director
* Piano Mania Foundation, Culemborg (2006-) chair
* Dranoff Two Piano Foundation Miami, artistic director development (2002-) | WIKI |
54321
54321 is a 2016 Indian Tamil language psychological thriller film written and directed by Ragavendra Prasad in his directorial debut. The film features Shabeer Kallarakkal, Aarvin and Pavithra in lead roles, with Rohini, Jayakumar, and Ravi Raghavendra playing supporting roles.
Plot
The story revolves around five interconnected lives, all tied together by life circumstances within a single house.
A burglar (Jayakumar) breaks into a residential property. While attempting to steal money and jewelry from the homeowners' safe, he unexpectedly stumbles upon a dangerous hostage situation already unfolding inside the house. When the homeowner, Vinoth (Aarvin G.R.), returns home, another intruder named Vikram (Shabeer Kallarakkal) knocks him unconscious. Vinoth later wakes up to find himself chained to the stairs. Vikram, the intruder, reveals his identity to Vinoth and confronts him coldly.
Through a series of sequential flashbacks, it is revealed that Vikram harbors intense hatred towards Vinoth dating back to their childhood. As former classmates and childhood rivals, Vikram developed an inferiority complex and a psychotic obsession with competing against Vinoth. Vikram's path eventually led to him committing matricide and being institutionalized. Now as an adult, Vikram seeks revenge against Vinoth out of jealous rage.
Returning to the present, it is disclosed that Anjali (Pavithra Gowda), Vinoth's wife and now Vikram's hostage, is bound to a chair with duct tape covering her mouth. Vikram threatens to harm Anjali unless Vinoth agrees to kill a child hidden somewhere in the house. Vikram is determined to prove that Vinoth is morally bankrupt like himself by forcing him to commit this act.
Despite Vinoth's pleas to spare his wife, Vikram mutilates Anjali by chopping off two of her fingers when Vinoth refuses to comply. Vikram also reveals that he is holding his own father (Ravi Raghavendra) hostage and threatens to kill him unless Vinoth obeys. Unable to bear harm to the hostages, Vinoth reluctantly moves towards the child.
In a tragic twist, Vikram reveals that the child he demanded Vinoth kill was actually his own son, disguised as a girl. Anjali knew the child's true identity but was unable to communicate it due to the tape over her mouth.
Ultimately, the burglar hiding in the house intervenes, leading to chaos. Vinoth's father also joins the fray, culminating in a final confrontation where Vinoth kills Vikram by stabbing him in the neck. As Vikram dies, he defiantly declares that he will inform his deceased mother that Vinoth is just as morally corrupt as he is. Unbeknownst to Vikram, Vinoth's son remains alive. With Vikram dead, authorities arrive at the scene, and Vinoth is reunited with his wife, finally safe.
Production
Director Ragavendra Prasad relates that the concept came to him while working with Karthik Subbaraj in Pizza, and was inspired by the 2006 American-Mexican-French drama Babel. The title 54321 developed from the plot revolving around 5 people, their 4 lifestyles, the 3 murders within the plot-line, the 2-hour film length, and the 1 revenge within the tale. During July 2015, the filming was reported as then being in progress. Joshua Sridhar composed the film's music.
Music
The music was composed by Joshua Sridhar and was released at an event held at Prasad Lab, Chennai, on 31 April 2015.
Reception
The film's released trailer received mixed response, which pleased the director.
M. Suganth of The Times of India opined that "And the film, too, never truly addresses the moral question at the heart of its plot — what makes one evil and is there difference between one evil act and another". Malini Mannath of The New Indian Express wrote that "54321 is opportunity lost!" | WIKI |
Page:VCH Staffordshire 1.djvu/407
ANCIENT EARTHWORKS HOMESTEAD MOATS (CLASS F) continued Ordnance Number Parish Name Form Dimensions (Outside Measurement) Alti- tude Situation, Notes, &c. Ft. XXXV, 6 Draycott in PaynsleyHall An inner ditch 200 ft. by 90 ft. 500 About I J miles from the Moors with banks, shewing Draycott (South) one side and two returns ; also to south-east, two sets of ditches, 192 ft. long, with banks ; also two circular mounds between 1 the outer and inner intrenchments, each 27 ft. in diameter ; also considerable fragments of in- trenchments to the north - east and north-west. XXIII, 13 Eccleshall. Charnes Irregular ; formed 2 50 ft. by 200 ft. 400 i mile east of Old Hall out of rectangle ; Charnes wet ; house on site XXXVI, 3
Wootton Fragment of irre- About 70 yds. in 400 At Wootton, i gular form ; dry length miles from Eccles- hall XX, ii Ellastone Bentley Fold Two sides of rect- 1 90 ft. by 1 90 ft. 351 Ellastone angle, and part of another ; wet XXXVI, 3 Ellenhall. ' Old Hall. Fragments of a 2 20 ft. by 1 80 ft. 378 Near church and square, connected road, between Ranton with a pond ; dry and Stone XXXVI, > Ranton Part of two sides ; 400 ft. & 280 ft. 393 On road between 7 & 1 1 Abbey dry Great BndgeforJ and Littleworth LVII, 13 Essington At the Filled up in 1896
567 2 miles east of Blox- Hollies wich LVI, 15 99 West Croft Three sides of a 1 70 ft. by 1 70 ft. 491 Off road between Farm square ; wet Wolverhampton and Shareshill, 3 miles north-east of Wolver- hampton LVI, 1 6 99 Moat House Filled up 1 5 years 55 ago XIV, 13 Farley. . Moat House Rectangular ; dry 1 60 ft. by 1 29 ft. 1,005 Near Cotton (north- east) LIII, 13 Fisherwick. Fisherwick. Fragmentary ; cir- 5 50 ft. 200 ij miles north-east (figured in cular segment ; dry of Whittington, near Plot) River Tame XXXI, 13 Gayton Moat Farm. Rectangular ; bro- 260 ft. by 1 80 ft. 300 South of churchyard ken on north side ; part wet 363 | WIKI |
VMI–William & Mary football rivalry
The VMI–William & Mary football rivalry between the VMI Keydets and the William & Mary Tribe is a match-up between two historic public universities, the Virginia Military Institute and the College of William and Mary, in the state of Virginia. While the rivalry has lost intensity since William & Mary departed from the Southern Conference in 1977, the Tribe and Keydets maintain the series through frequent non-conference match-ups. The series is the second-longest for William & Mary (after the Capital Cup with Richmond), and the longest for VMI at 88 games. The football series began in 1905 and has been played a total of 88 times as of 2011.
History
The College of William and Mary was founded in Williamsburg, Virginia in 1693, and the Virginia Military Institute was founded in 1839 in Lexington, Virginia. The VMI Keydets football team was established in 1891, and the William & Mary team was founded two years later in 1893. VMI has hosted its home games in Lexington on the Parade Ground, Alumni Field, and the current Alumni Memorial Field, which was constructed in 1962. William & Mary has hosted all of its home contests in Williamsburg at Zable Stadium (known as Cary Field until 1989). The game has also been played in Richmond, Lynchburg, Norfolk, Portsmouth, and Roanoke, Virginia as well as Bluefield, West Virginia (Mitchell Stadium).
Previously, the game was a conference match up when VMI and William & Mary were both members of the Southern Conference from 1936 until 1976. William & Mary then became an independent before joining the Yankee Conference in 1993. It has since been a member of the Atlantic 10 Conference for football, and is currently part of the Colonial Athletic Association. VMI remained a member of the Southern Conference until 2001 before leaving for the Big South Conference. The Keydets, however, moved back to the Southern Conference in 2013.
The most recent game was played on September 10, 2011, in Lexington with William & Mary defeating VMI 24–7. VMI has not won a contest between the two teams since 1985.
The two teams have scheduled a four-game, home-and-home football series beginning in 2024.
Game results
* Source: Tribe Athletics | WIKI |
Page:The Female-Impersonators 1922 book scan.djvu/194
166 passivity as fifty is approached. On the other hand, I have heard of mildly virile men marrying in their twenties, begetting children, and only after reaching middle age, becoming somewhat sissified, acquiring horror feminæ, like ultra-androgynes, and finally seeking the latter's sexual role.
These changes in ultra-androgynes and in the mildly virile are like menopause in woman. There is a turning point in the sex life. The hitherto passive ultra-androgyne occasionally becomes active. The mildly virile occasionally develops a quasi-feminine leaning. The latter class were possibly mildly androgynous by birth, but the idiosyncrasies did not come to the front of the mental life until the climacteric corresponding to menopause.
In my, I said nothing about my personal "menopause" because it came at about the close of my writing that book, and I did not recognize it as such until after the latter's publication. On page 197, I described how, at the age of forty-two, my weight, stripped, within six weeks, jumped from 133 to 160. For ten years, it had been stationary at 133. For the following five years, it has been stationary at 160. I now attribute the change to "menopause." Moreover, a few months after the increase in weight, I kept company with a young lady for half-a-year. I drifted into it almost unconsciously and involuntarily. I paid her gallantries immeasurably beyond any other incident of my life. I even regarded a Platonic marriage as a possibility, though not a probability.
But I was too extreme an androgyne, in addition to my having been castrated. The virility that | WIKI |
New to Telerik UI for ASP.NET Core? Download free 30-day trial
Getting Started with the NumericTextBox
This tutorial explains how to set up a basic Telerik UI for ASP.NET Core NumericTextBox and highlights the major steps in the configuration of the component.
You will initialize two NumericTextBox components, one of them will have an event handler. Finally, you can run the sample code in Telerik REPL and continue exploring the components.
Sample Telerik UI for ASP.NET Core NumericTextBox
Prerequisites
To successfully complete the tutorial, you need a project that is already configured to use the Telerik UI for ASP.NET Core components:
• You can use the Telerik REPL playground and skip installing the components on your system and configuring a project.
• You can prepare a Visual Studio project by following either of these guides:
1. Prepare the CSHTML File
The first step is to add the required directives at the top of the .cshtml document:
• To use the Telerik UI for ASP.NET Core HtmlHelpers:
@using Kendo.Mvc.UI
• To use the Telerik UI for ASP.NET Core TagHelpers:
@addTagHelper *, Kendo.Mvc
Optionally, you can structure the document by adding the desired HTML elements like headings, divs, paragraphs, and others. In this tutorial, you will create a list that contains two items—one for each NumericTextBox. You will also add labels.
@using Kendo.Mvc.UI
<p class="title">Add new product</p>
<ul id="products-list">
<li>
<label for="currency">Price:</label>
</li>
<li>
<label for="numeric">Currently in stock:</label>
</li>
</ul>
@addTagHelper *, Kendo.Mvc
<p class="title">Add new product</p>
<ul id="products-list">
<li>
<label for="currency">Price:</label>
</li>
<li>
<label for="numeric">Currently in stock:</label>
</li>
</ul>
2. Initialize the NumericTextBox
Use the NumericTextBox HtmlHelper or TagHelper to add the component to a page. The Name() configuration method is mandatory as its value is used for the id and the name attributes of the NumericTextBox element.
@using Kendo.Mvc.UI
<p class="title">Add new product</p>
<ul id="products-list">
<li>
<label for="currency">Price:</label>
@(Html.Kendo().NumericTextBox<decimal>()
.Name("currency") // The name is required.
)
</li>
<li>
<label for="numeric">Currently in stock:</label>
@(Html.Kendo().NumericTextBox<double>()
.Name("numeric")
)
</li>
</ul>
@addTagHelper *, Kendo.Mvc
<p class="title">Add new product</p>
<ul id="products-list">
<li>
<label for="currency">Price:</label>
<kendo-numerictextbox name="currency">
</kendo-numerictextbox>
</li>
<li>
<label for="numeric">Currently in stock:</label>
<kendo-numerictextbox name="numeric">
</kendo-numerictextbox>
</li>
</ul>
Do not set the Name() option when using NumericTextBoxFor. The [WidgetName]For method automatically sets the widget's Name() to the field it is bound to. For more information, see the Fundamentals article.
3. Configure the Displayed Values
The NumericTextBox provides a variety of methods that allow you to configure its values. In this tutorial, you will perform the following configuration:
• To specify the number format for the control when it isn't focused, use the Format() method.
• To define what is the accepted minimal value, use the Min() method.
• To set the value, use the Value() method.
• To add a placeholder text in the NumericTextBox, use the Placeholder() method.
@using Kendo.Mvc.UI
<p class="title">Add new product</p>
<ul id="products-list">
<li>
<label for="currency">Price:</label>
@(Html.Kendo().NumericTextBox<decimal>()
.Name("currency")
.Format("c") // Format the value as currency.
.Min(0) // The minimal value is 0.
.Value(30) // The current value is 30.
.Placeholder("Enter product price") // Use the placeholder to display a hint.
)
</li>
<li>
<label for="numeric">Currently in stock:</label>
@(Html.Kendo().NumericTextBox<double>()
.Name("numeric")
.Placeholder("Enter numeric value")
)
</li>
</ul>
@addTagHelper *, Kendo.Mvc
<p class="title">Add new product</p>
<ul id="products-list">
<li>
<label for="currency">Price:</label>
<kendo-numerictextbox name="currency"
min="0"
format="c"
value="30"
placeholder="Enter product price">
</kendo-numerictextbox>
</li>
<li>
<label for="numeric">Currently in stock:</label>
<kendo-numerictextbox name="numeric"
min="0"
placeholder="Enter numeric value">
</kendo-numerictextbox>
</li>
</ul>
4. Handle a NumericTextBox Event
The NumericTextBox exposes the Change and Spin events that you can handle and customize the component's functions. In this tutorial, you will use these events to log a new entry in the browser's console.
@using Kendo.Mvc.UI
<p class="title">Add new product</p>
<ul id="products-list">
<li>
<label for="currency">Price:</label>
@(Html.Kendo().NumericTextBox<decimal>()
.Name("currency")
.Format("c")
.Min(0)
.Value(30)
.Placeholder("Enter product price")
.Events(e => e // Configure the client-side events.
.Change("change")
.Spin("spin")
)
)
</li>
<li>
<label for="numeric">Currently in stock:</label>
@(Html.Kendo().NumericTextBox<double>()
.Name("numeric")
.Placeholder("Enter numeric value")
)
</li>
</ul>
<script>
function change() {
console.log("Change :: " + this.value());
}
function spin() {
console.log("Spin :: " + this.value());
}
</script>
@addTagHelper *, Kendo.Mvc
<p class="title">Add new product</p>
<ul id="products-list">
<li>
<label for="currency">Price:</label>
<kendo-numerictextbox name="currency"
min="0"
format="c"
value="30"
placeholder="Enter product price"
on-change="change"
on-spin="spin">
</kendo-numerictextbox>
</li>
<li>
<label for="numeric">Currently in stock:</label>
<kendo-numerictextbox name="numeric"
min="0"
placeholder="Enter numeric value">
</kendo-numerictextbox>
</li>
</ul>
<script>
function change() {
console.log("Change :: " + this.value());
}
function spin() {
console.log("Spin :: " + this.value());
}
</script>
5. (Optional) Reference Existing NumericTextBox Instances
You can reference the NumericTextBox instances that you have created and build on top of their existing configuration:
1. Use the id attribute of the component instance to establish a reference.
<script>
var numericTextBoxRef = $('#currency').data('kendoNumericTextBox'); // numericTextBoxRef is a reference to the existing currency instance of the helper.
</script>
2. Use the NumericTextBox client-side API to control the behavior of the widget. In this example, you will use the readonly method to disable user input.
<script>
var numericTextBoxRef = $('#currency').data('kendoNumericTextBox'); // numericTextBoxRef is a reference to the existing currency instance of the helper.
numericTextBoxRef.readonly(true); // Set the readonly method to true and disable user input.
</script>
For more information on referencing specific helper instances, see the Methods and Events article.
Explore this Tutorial in REPL
You can continue experimenting with the code sample above by running it in the Telerik REPL server playground:
Next Steps
See Also
In this article | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Benjamin Brecknell Turner
Benjamin Brecknell Turner (1815–1894) was one of Britain's first photographers and a founding-member of the Photographic Society of London which was formed in 1853. His images were based on the traditionally 'picturesque' styles and subjects of the generation of watercolour painters before him.
Born in London, Turner was the eldest son in a family of eight children. The family lived above the family tallow-chandlers business where candles and saddle-soaps were made and sold. At sixteen Benjamin became an apprentice to his father. He joined the Worshipful Company of Tallow Chandlers in 1837 and became a Freeman of the City of London in 1838. On 17 August 1847, he married Agnes Chamberlain, a member of the Worcester China family. In 1849 Turner took out a licence to practice paper negative (Calotype or Talbotype) photography from its inventor, William Henry Fox Talbot. He quickly mastered this form of photography and went on to produce many images during the 1850s, taking part in many photographic exhibitions during this time. He joined the Photographic Society, later the Royal Photographic Society, and was recorded as a member from 1854, although it is likely he joined in 1853 and remained a member until at least 1893, albeit with a break in membership between c.1871, rejoining in 1883. Brecknell's personal album from the Photographic Club, a grouping of members of the Photographic Society, is held in the Royal Photographic Society Collection at the Victoria and Albert Museum.
Between 1852 and 1854 Turner compiled 60 of his own photographs in what is believed to be a unique album, 'Photographic Views from Nature'. It might have been a sample book, a convenient method for presenting photographs for personal pleasure, and for showing to colleagues or potential exhibitors. It remained in the Turner family until it was bought by the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. Almost a third of the photographs in Turner's album are of scenes in the West Midlands county of Worcestershire. The village of Bredicot was the home of Turner's father-in-law, who had purchased Bredicot Court when he retired from the business of porcelain manufacture, a trade that had made him wealthy.
From the mid-1850s he worked in a 'glass house studio' above his London business premises. He made many portraits here although he seems never to have exhibited them. Although Turner is mainly known for his rural and architectural images he did also take portraits using his family and business as subjects. For these images he often used glass negatives as these had short exposure times allowing a high level of detail.
Collections
* Victoria and Albert Museum
* National Gallery of Art, Department of Image Collections
* National Media Museum
* Metropolitan Museum of Art
* National Galleries of Scotland
* National Portrait Gallery
* National Gallery of Canada | WIKI |
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React.rb - all the power of react.js with all the joy of ruby
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Slides for OCRuby Jan 28 2016 meeting
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React.rb - all the power of react.js with all the joy of ruby
1. 1. REACT.RB - ALL THE POWER OF REACT.JS WITH ALL THE JOY OF RUBY FORREST CHANG FKCHANG2000@YAHOO.COM
2. 2. WHO'S A WEB DEVELOPER?
3. 3. WHO USES RAILS?
4. 4. WHO KNOWS WHAT REACT IS?
5. 5. REACT JS Open sourced in 2014 the "It" framework of 2015 - caught up to be top 2 framework in 2 years Huge adoption and mindshare, community Other frameworks adopted React features in response (ember wrote a virtual DOM due to a demo)
6. 6. REACT SUMMARY https://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2013/06/05/why-react.html React isn't an MVC framework. React is a library for building composable user interfaces. It encourages the creation of reusable UI components which present data that changes over time.
7. 7. WHY REACT? Component based - reusable tree of components Declarative - easy to understand Fast - via Virtual DOM Small - library, small API Unidirectional data flow Multiple render destinations, web, mobile, text Testable Isomorphic/Universal Javascript, domain logic, server/client rendered views Server rendered - UX performance, SEO Simple
8. 8. IN SHORT A typical write up of a React adoption https://developer.atlassian.com/blog/2015/02/rebuilding-hipchat-with- react/ In the end, React's biggest benefits are summed up with: Declarative → Predictable → Confidence
9. 9. WHO'S USING REACT? Everyone!
10. 10. WHO USES REACT Facebook Instagram HipChat Netflix Khan Academy Twitter - Fabric HootSuite new version of Yahoo mail to be in react https://github.com/facebook/react/wiki/Sites-Using-React http://react.careers/
11. 11. CONTROVERSIAL JSX var CommentList = React.createClass({ render: function() { return ( <div className="commentList"> Hello, world! I am a CommentList. </div> ); } }); JSX, "HTML" in your javascript Actually good, Many mistake separation of technologies with separation of concerns Way more concise than pure JS way of writing Most people rave about it after they get used to it
12. 12. PRETTY AWESOME Maintainability Simplicity, dedicated focus of React, declarative Reuseable testable components Unidirectional data flow simplfies code, DRY's data flow Performance, Virtual DOM minimized costly DOM changes Universal Javascript, less code, less duplication
13. 13. BUT Javascript! Javascript!! Additional learning curve for new backends for full benefits, esp. for Rubyists Javascript fatigue – too many choices, too much change https://medium.com/@ericclemmons/javascript-fatigue- 48d4011b6fc4#.g5zjszug3
14. 14. REACT RESOURCES Official page Guide to the overwhelming ecosystem Steps to learn Best practices summarized For the jQuery mind http://facebook.github.io/react/ https://github.com/petehunt/react-howto http://developer.telerik.com/featured/5-steps-for-learning-react- application-development https://camjackson.net/post/9-things-every-reactjs-beginner-should- know https://www.codementor.io/reactjs/tutorial/react-components-from-a- jquery-programmer-background
15. 15. UNIVERSAL (ISOMORPHIC) JAVASCRIPT Was isomorphic - Universal defined Same code for front and backend One language, no context switches Javascript only, unless you use Opal https://medium.com/@mjackson/universal-javascript- 4761051b7ae9#.rxrgqe5wb
16. 16. UNIVERSAL RUBY? enabled by Opal (Ruby to JS transpiler and runtime) single language - Ruby on both ends shared views - Erb, Haml, and of course..
17. 17. REACT.RB
18. 18. WHAT IS REACT.RB Opal wrapper to React.js Best of both worlds? Leverages the Ruby based backend ecosystem you already know- esp. Rails Leverages full React.js ecosystem, but in Ruby
19. 19. BRIEF OVERVIEW Too much to cover (much to React.js so much correspondingly for React.rb) Overview now, more details in subsequent talks All Ruby DSL Rails integration Misc
20. 20. QUICK CODE COMPARISON Instead of this var HelloMessage = React.createClass({ propTypes: { name: React.PropTypes.string } render: function() { return <div>Hello {this.props.name}</div>; } }); Write this class HelloMessage < React::Component::Base param :visitor, type: String def render div do "Hello #{params.name}" end end end
21. 21. CREATING A COMPONENT # can inherit class MyComponent < React::Component::Base def render # whatever end end # or include Mixin class MyComponent include React::Component def render # whatever end end
22. 22. EVERY COMPONENT HAS A RENDER METHOD class MyComponent < React::Component::Base def render div.big_div do h1 { 'Eye Catching Headline'} p { 'Meaningful paragraph' } end end end
23. 23. RUBY DSL INSTEAD OF JSX Resembles haml/slim/markaby haml type classes, maps _ to camel case attributes via hash Just Ruby more powerful than JSX which can't express iteration for example less jarring than than mix of languages and syntaxes
24. 24. RUBY DSL PATTERN all HTML elements have a component that matches it's name note that p is para since Ruby/Opal has it's own p() method tag_name(attribute1 => value1, attribute2 => value2 ...) do ...nested tags... end
25. 25. JARRING JSX import React, { Component } from 'react'; import Select from './Select'; import _ from 'lodash'; export default class App extends Component { render() { return ( <div className="container"> <ol> {_.times(3, i => <li key={i}> <Select onSelect={this.onSelect}> <option value="1">bacon</option> <option value="2">cheez</option> </Select> </li> )} </ol> </div> ); } }
26. 26. PARAMS called props in react.js, params picked to be more familar to Rails programmers They are the "parameters" passed into a component Initial config values Immmutable Can be declared, can be typed
27. 27. DECLARING PARAMS class IndividualParams < React::Component::Base param :items, type: [String] param :an_optional_param, default: "hello", type: String, allow_nil: true # ... end class ParamsBlock < React::Component::Base params do requires :foo requires :lorem, type: Lorem optional :bar, type: String end # ... end
28. 28. ACCESSING PARAMS params.items.each do |item| # ... end
29. 29. STATE same as react.js state can change values when changed, component re renders
30. 30. DEFINING INITIAL STATE VALUES Javascript var CommentBox = React.createClass({ getInitialState: function() { return {data: []}; }, ... Opal class CommentBox include React::Component define_state data: [] # The form define_state :data will initialize to nil # rest of component end
31. 31. ACCESSING state.data # reader state.data! [1, 2, 3] # writer, triggers rerender
32. 32. REACT LIFECYCLE METHODS React Life Cycle Method Ruby Macro Name Called When componentWillMount before_mount Invoked once, both on the client and server, immediately before the initial rendering occurs componentDidMount after_mount Invoked once, only on the client. immediately after the initial rendering occurs. componentWillReceiveProps before_receive_props Invoked when a component is receiving new props. This method is not called for the initial render. componentWillUpdate before_update Invoked immediately before rendering when new props or state are being received. This method is not called for the initial render. componentDidUpdate after_update Invoked immediately after the component's updates are flushed to the DOM. This method is not called for the initial render. componentWillUnmount before_unmount Invoked immediately before a component is unmounted from the DOM. Perform any necessary cleanup in this method.
33. 33. GETTING STARTED No setup required - opal-playground Rails, can setup manual, new Rails generator gem to be integrated into react.rb in the future Hello World
34. 34. WHY REACT.RB > REACT JS One language, more so than React.js/JSX Ruby > Javascript, DSL cleaner No , tool churn, you get Ruby tools Build on top of rails JS fatigue
35. 35. REACT.RB REFERENCES Github project: Project Page: Wiki (eventually probably all on project page): Gitter (the place to ask): Stack Overflow: My blog, lots of Opal, will have lots of React https://github.com/zetachang/react.rb http://reactrb.org/ https://github.com/zetachang/react.rb/wiki https://gitter.im/zetachang/react.rb http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/react.rb https://funkworks.blogspot.com/
36. 36. RAILS INTEGRATION Opal integrations via opal-rails render_component in controler gives serverside rendering Blog post on geting started Could be it's own talk http://funkworks.blogspot.com/2016/01/getting-started-with-reactrb- and-ruby.html
37. 37. WEBPACK HOOK INS First class Javascript Full power of npm available Could be it's own talk
38. 38. SOME DEMOS react.rb chat tutorial: live: partial dbmon port current Rails app http://reactrb.org/docs/tutorial.html http://reactrb.org/chatrb.html http://git.io/v8Sm7
39. 39. THAT'S IT FOR NOW lots of material/topics to cover follow up talks Blog post
× | ESSENTIALAI-STEM |
Ensurepass
QUESTION 1
You install Windows Server 2008 R2 Enterprise on a new physical server.
You need to prepare the server to host virtual machines. What should you do?
A. Run the Import-Module ServerManager cmdlet.
B. Run the new-item Hyper-V -type role cmdlet.
C. Run the servermanagercmd -Install Hyper-V command.
D. Run the Add-WindowsFeatures RSAT-Hyper-V cmdlet.
Correct Answer: C
QUESTION 2
You have a Windows Server 2008 R2 Hyper-V failover cluster with a single iSCSI logical unit number (LUN) and one highly available virtual machine (HAVM).
You manage the virtual environment by using Microsoft System Center Virtual Machine Manager (VMM) 2008 R2. You monitor the environment by using Microsoft System Center Operations Manager 2007 R2.
You configure a new virtual machine (VM) by deploying a VHD from the VMM library and placing the VHD on the existing iSCSI LUN. You create an HAVM configuration, and you attach the VHD to the configuration. VMM reports the status of the VMs as Unsupported Cluster Configuration.
You need to be able to manage the VMs by using VMM. What should you do?
A. Configure Windows System Resource Manager (WSRM) on the Windows Server 2008 R2 cluster nodes.
B. Configure Performance and Resource Optimization (PRO) on the Windows Server 2008 R2 cluster nodes.
C. Move the VHD of one HAVM to the system volume of a cluster node.
D. Move the VHD of one HAVM to a new iSCSI LUN.
Correct Answer: D
QUESTION 3
A company is deploying Windows Server 2008 R2 Remote Desktop services (RDS).
Another administrator has installed RDS client access licenses (CALs) on the Remote Desktop license server.
You need to ensure that the Remote Desktop Session Host (RD Session Host) server requests licenses from the Remote Desktop license server. What should you do first?
A. Configure Remote Desktop licensing mode on the RD Session Host.
B. Create an RDS farm and add the RD Session Host to the farm.
C. Activate the Remote Desktop license server.
D. Install the RD Licensing role service.
Correct Answer: A
QUESTION 4
Your company has a Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2008 R2 environment. You manage the virtual environment by using Microsoft System Center Virtual Machine Manager (VMM) 2008 R2.
Virtual machines (VMs) will use Microsoft iSCSI Software Initiator to connect to the shared storage volumes within the guest operating system. You need to configure the VMM host server to optimize the network environment for iSCSI traffic.
Which two actions should you perform? (Each correct answer presents part of the solution. Choose two.)
A. Set the network adapters to 1454 MTU.
B. Set the network adapters and the supporting infrastructure to support jumbo frames.
C. Enable RX and TX TCP checksum offload support on the network adapters.
D. Disable RX and TX TCP checksum offload support on the network adapters.
Correct Answer: BC
QUESTION 5
Your company has an Active Directory Domain Services (AD DS) domain that includes an AD security group named Monitoring.
You are configuring a Windows Server 2008 R2 Hyper-V server that hosts several virtual machines (VMs). You need to ensure that members of the Monitoring group can only stop and start VMs on the host server. What should you do?
A. Add the Monitoring group to the Server Operators AD security group.
B. In Authorization Manager, add the Monitoring group to the Administrator role in the default scope.
C. In Authorization Manager, create a task that includes the Stop Virtual Machine and Start Virtual Machine operations. Add the task to the Administrator role.
D. In Authorization Manager, create a role in the default scope. Add the Stop Virtual Machine and Start Virtual Machine operations to the role. Assign the Monitoring group to the role.
Correct Answer: D
QUESTION 6
A company has a Server that runs Microsoft System Center Virtual Machine Manager (VMM) 2008 R2, System Center Data Protection manager (DPM) 2010, and windows server 2008 R2 with Hyper-V.
A Hyper-V host has a virtual machine (VM) that uses a basic disk.
You need to perform a backup of the VM configuration and its virtual hard disk minimizing downtime. What should you do?
A. Perform an offline backup by using DPM.
B. Perform an online backup by using DPM.
C. Perform a system state backup by using windows Server Backup.
D. Perform a VMM database backup by using VMM.
Correct Answer: B
QUESTION 7
A company has servers that run Microsoft System Center Virtual Machine Manager (VMM) 2008 R2, System Center Data Protection Manager (DPM) 2010, and Windows Server 2008 R2 with Hyper-V.
A Hyper-V host has a virtual machine (VM) that uses a dynamic disk.
You need to perform a backup of the VM configuration and its virtual hard disk. What should you do?
A. Perform an online backup by using DPM.
B. Perform a VMM database backup by using VMM.
C. Perform an offline backup by using DPM.
D. Perform a system state backup by using Windows Server Backup.
Correct Answer: C
QUESTION 8
A company has a Hyper-V server named SERVER01 that runs Windows Server 2008 R2 Enterprise with Service Pack (SP) 1. All virtual machines (VMs) run Windows Server 2008 R2 Enterprise with SP1. All VMs are configured to use Dynamic Memory.
A VM named VM01 is exhibiting performance problems.
You need to ascertain how much memory VM01 is consuming. What should you do?
A. Use Performance Monitor to view the Hyper-V Dynamic Memory BalancerAvailable Memory performance counter for SERVER01.
B. Use Performance Monitor to view the Hyper-V Dynamic Memory VMGuest Visible Dynamic Memory performance counter for VM01.
C. In the VM settings, view the Maximum RAM value.
D. Use Performance Monitor to view the Hyper-V Dynamic Memory VMPhysical Memory performance counter for VM01.
Correct Answer: D
QUESTION 9
NOTE: NOT SURE IF THIS
QUESTION WILL COME UP. I hope that it doesn’t as it contradicts the previous question! Only use this answer if Use Performance Monitor to view the Hyper-V Dynamic Memory VMPhysical Memory performance counter for VM01 isn’t one of the options.
A company has a Hyper-V server named SERVER01 that runs Windows Server 2008 R2 Enterprise with Service Pack (SP) 1. All virtual machines (VMs) run Windows Server 2008 R2 Enterprise with SP1. All VMs are configured to use Dynamic Memory.
A VM named VM01 is exhibiting performance problems.
You need to ascertain how much memory VM01 is consuming. What should you do?
A. In Hyper-V Manager, view the Memory Demand value.
B. Use Performance Monitor to view the Hyper-V Dynamic Memory VMGuest Visible Dynamic Memory performance counter for VM01.
C. Use Performance Monitor to view the Hyper-V Dynamic Memory BalancerAvailable Memory performance counter for SERVER01.
D. In Hyper-V Manager, view the Assigned Memory value.
Correct Answer: A
QUESTION 10
A company is preparing to deploy Windows Server 2008 R2 Remote Desktop Services (RDS).
You have obtained RDS Client access licenses (CALs).
You need to prepare the environment for the installation of the RDS CALs. What should you do?
A. Install the RD licensing role services.
B. Configure Remote Desktop licensing mode on the RD session Host.
C. Create an RDS farm and add the Rd session Host to the farm.
D. Activate the Remote Desktop license server.
Correct Answer: A
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Temperature trends during the Present and Last Interglacial periods – a multi-model-data comparison
Contact
Madlene.Pfeiffer [ at ] awi.de
Abstract
Though primarily driven by insolation changes associated with well-known variations in Earth's astronomical parameters, the response of the climate system during interglacials includes a diversity of feedbacks involving the atmosphere, ocean, sea ice, vegetation and land ice. A thorough multi-model-data comparison is essential to assess the ability of climate models to resolve interglacial temperature trends and to help in understanding the recorded climatic signal and the underlying climate dynamics. We present the first multi-model-data comparison of transient millennial-scale temperature changes through two intervals of the Present Interglacial (PIG; 8–1.2 ka) and the Last Interglacial (LIG; 123–116.2 ka) periods. We include temperature trends simulated by 9 different climate models, alkenone-based temperature reconstructions from 117 globally distributed locations (about 45% of them within the LIG) and 12 ice-core-based temperature trends from Greenland and Antarctica (50% of them within the LIG). The definitions of these specific interglacial intervals enable a consistent inter-comparison of the two intervals because both are characterised by minor changes in atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations and more importantly by insolation trends that show clear similarities. Our analysis shows that in general the reconstructed PIG and LIG Northern Hemisphere mid-to-high latitude cooling compares well with multi-model, mean-temperature trends for the warmest months and that these cooling trends reflect a linear response to the warmest-month insolation decrease over the interglacial intervals. The most notable exception is the strong LIG cooling trend reconstructed from Greenland ice cores that is not simulated by any of the models. A striking model-data mismatch is found for both the PIG and the LIG over large parts of the mid-to-high latitudes of the Southern Hemisphere where the data depicts negative temperature trends that are not in agreement with near zero trends in the simulations. In this area, the positive local summer insolation trend is counteracted in climate models by an enhancement of the Southern Ocean summer sea-ice cover and/or an increase in Southern Ocean upwelling. If the general picture emerging from reconstructions is realistic, then the model-data mismatch in mid and high Southern Hemisphere latitudes implies that none of the models is able to resolve the correct balance of these feedbacks, or, alternatively, that interglacial Southern Hemisphere temperature trends are driven by mechanisms which are not included in the transient simulations, such as changes in the Antarctic ice sheet or meltwater-induced changes in the overturning circulation.
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Eprint ID
37536
DOI 10.1016/j.quascirev.2014.06.031
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Bakker, P. , Masson-Delmotte, V. , Martrat, B. , Charbit, S. , Renssen, H. , Gröger, M. , Krebs-Kanzow, U. , Lohmann, G. , Lunt, D. J. , Pfeiffer, M. , Phipps, S. , Prange, M. , Ritz, S. , Schulz, M. , Stenni, B. , Stone, E. and Varma, V. (2014): Temperature trends during the Present and Last Interglacial periods – a multi-model-data comparison , Quaternary Science Reviews, 99 , pp. 224-243 . doi: 10.1016/j.quascirev.2014.06.031
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Page:Protestant Exiles from France Agnew (1st ed. vol 3).djvu/142
referred to the Colloquy, the doctor contending he could hold both appointments; his son, Nathaniel, was sent from Norwich School to Bennet College, Cambridge, as a Norwich scholar.” (3.) A respectable tradesman in Walbrook, London, surnamed Calamy, was a native of Guernsey. His son was the Rev. Edmund Calamy, B.D. (died 1666), a leading Presbyterian Divine, who, at the King’s Restoration, refused a bishopric, author of “The Godly Man’s Ark,” &c. This reverend gentleman (who contributed the letters E C to the name of Smectymnuus) had four sons, viz., the Rev. Edmund Calamy, M.A., of Cambridge, a non-conformist, (died 1685), Rev. Benjamin Calamy, D.D., a celebrated Anglican clergyman, (tutor to James Bonnell, Esq.), the Rev. James Calamy, M.A. of Cambridge, Prebendary of Exeter (died 1714). and [Rev. ?] John. Only the first of these left an heir, viz., Edmund. This was the most distinguished Edmund Calamy, D.D. (born 1671, died 1731) a very voluminous author on Church History, Non-Conformity, the French Prophets, and Practical Divinity. His interesting manuscript, entitled “An Historical Account of my own Life,” was printed in 1829, and in it he writes, “I have been informed by some of the oldest of my relations. . . that my grandfather, applying to the Herald Office about his coat-of-arms, was there certified that there was an old town and castle that bore his name on the Norman coast, which belonged to his ancestors.”
For some of the facts in the above paragraph I am indebted to Mr. Smiles, to whom I owe all my knowledge of. Nicholas Briot was a gentleman of Lorraine, the reputed inventor of the coining-press, and graver of the mint to Louis XIII. But unable to submit to serious religious disabilities as a Huguenot, he withdrew, as a voluntary exile, into England, and in 1626 became chief-engraver to the London Mint, through the patronage of King Charles I. In 1633 he received an appointment in Edinburgh, and in 1635 succeeded Sir John Foulis as Master of the Mint in Scotland, in 1637 his daughter Esther was married to Sir John Falconer, and this son-in-law was conjoined with Nicholas Briot in his office. Briot, however, returned to England on the out-break of the civil war; he secured for the king’s service all the coining apparatus of the nation, and finally is said to have died of grief on his royal patron’s death. Sir John Falconer was of the Halkerstoun family and ancestor of the Falconers of Phesdo. Mr Smiles enumerates several fine medals executed by Briot, who “possessed the genius of a true artist.”
Thomas D’Urfey, dramatic and song writer, (better known as Tom D’Urfey), was of Huguenot descent. At a much earlier date than the revocation, his parents came from La Rochelle to Exeter, where he was born in 1653. Addison says in the Guardian No. 67, 28th May 1713:— “I myself remember King Charles II. leaning on Tom D’Urfey’s shoulder more than once and humming over a song with him. It is certain that that monarch was not a little supported by ‘Joy to Great Caesar,’ which gave the Whigs such a blow as they were not able to recover that whole reign. My friend afterwards attacked Popery with the same success, having exposed Bellarmine and Porto-Carrero more than once in short satirical compositions which have been in everybody’s mouth. He has made use of Italian tunes and sonatas to promote the Protestant interest, and turned a considerable part of Pope’s music against himself” He also satirized the Harley-Bolingbroke ministry, for he took the true refugee view of the Peace of Utrecht, as a bad bargain for Britain and for the Protestant interest:
A ballad to their merit may
* Most justly then belong.
For, why! they've given all (I say)
* To Louis for a song.”
The zeal of Dryden for Romanism may be regarded as partly explaining the severity of his criticism upon D’Urfey. I allude to the following recorded dialogue:—
“A gentleman returning from one of D’Urfey’s plays the first night it was acted, said to | WIKI |
Garrett v. Greenberg
Messrs. Vincent P. McDevitt, of Philadelphia, Pa., for petitioner.
Messrs. Ernest Scott and Joseph S.C.onwell, Jr., both of Philadelphia, Pa., W. Edward Greenwood, of West Chester, Pa., and David Rosen, of Philadelphia, Pa., for respondent. | WIKI |
suberine
Etymology
From.
Noun
* 1) A substance obtained by treating cork filings with alcohol, ether, and dilute hydrochloric acid. | WIKI |
Mercurialis
Mercurialis or variants may refer to:
* Mercurialis (plant), a genus of plants in the family Euphorbiaceae
* Girolamo Mercuriale or Mercuriali (1530–1606), Italian philologist and physician
* Mercurialis of Forlì (Mercuriale) (died c. 406), bishop of Forlì | WIKI |
Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 208
Temporary moratorium on new proposals regarding deletion, notability and related matters
At Village pump (policy) multiple editors have expressed that they feel there are currently too many concurrent noticeboard discussions regarding notability, deletion and related matters (and two others thanked me when I initially suggested a moratorium). Since then the discussion above has been opened, so it seems a formal proposal is needed:
Proposal: Until such time as all the discussions listed below are closed, withdrawn or archived without formal closure and any appeals and disputes regarding such closures have concluded, no new RFC or similarly large proposal or discussion of policy may be opened that relates to the following topics, all broadly interpreted. If a proposal or policy discussion meeting these criteria is opened between this proposal passing and the moratorium expiring any uninvolved administrator may close it without prejudice to the same question being asked after the moratorium expires. Reverting such a closure requires an active consensus of uninvolved editors. In borderline cases it is recommended to get agreement from a few other editors before speedily closing. The discussions concerned are: Any relevant discussions/proposals omitted from the list (e.g. any begun after the proposal was made) should be added to the list (unless the proposal is rejected). Discussions that are closed, withdrawn or archived should be struck (not removed).
* 1) Notability,
* 2) The inclusion/exclusion of types of content on a large number of pages
* 3) Draftification, and/or
* 4) Deletion
* Village pump (policy)
* Village pump (policy)
* Village pump (policy) Withdrawn
* Village pump (policy)
* Village pump (proposals) Withdrawn
* Village pump (proposals) Closed
This is explicitly not intended to prevent or limit the asking of genuine questions, the functioning of specialist noticeboards/discussion venues (e.g. WT:CSD, WP:RSN, WikiProject talk pages, etc) as long as such discussions are not used to avoid needed wider community consensus. Thryduulf (talk) 01:10, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
Survey (temporary moratorium on new proposals)
* (Support) As proposer. The large number of discussions is exhausting editors resources and hindering their ability to productively improve the encyclopaedia. Thryduulf (talk) 01:11, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* (Support) * Pppery * it has begun... 01:16, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* (Support) Per Thryduulf: it is genuinely getting hard to do any real work here (including deletion) for having to repetitively check forum after forum for discussions on matters related to deletion or notability. The repeated RfCs are quite literally exhausting and are encouraging uncivil discourse. Espresso Addict (talk) 01:23, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* (Support) The sheer number of proposals, the speed with which they are being proposed, and the sheer number of comments in those discussions, is making it impossible for other editors to get anything useful done elsewhere on the project. This has been going on for some time, and there have been a number of other proposals that were closed recently, in additions to the ones listed above. If you look at the ideas lab, and the talk pages of a number of the notability guidelines, there are a large and increasing number of discussions planning for further RfCs in the immediate future. There appears to be a real possibility of the village pump being flooded with an even larger number of RfCs. James500 (talk) 01:47, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support per nom and James500. Dave (talk) 03:48, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* (Support) Yes, I've stopped reading this page but saw this proposal on my watchlist. Johnuniq (talk) 03:59, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose. If someone wants to propose a small but substantial tweak or clarification to a policy, I see no reason why they should be prohibiteed from doing so. Moreover, the language discussion of policy may be opened that relates to the following topics... deletion is overbroad; certainly we are able to have discussions of policy as it relates to deletion—when they are in the contexts of specific XfD nominations. The proposal also bizarrely includes a prohibition on discussing the various deletion/notability policies until a completely unrelated discussion (i.e. Village pump (policy)) is closed, which is nowhere near narrowly tailored towards the problem that some are experiencing with discussion burnout. Moreover, the Reverting such a closure requires an active consensus of uninvolved editors line will inevitable lead to a closure review at AN for times when this is invoked, which will further the amount of time spent discussing these sorts of things while also simultaneously directing editor energy towards procedural matters rather than substantial ones. As written, the proposal is overbroad in its scope, and it may well create more work than if the proposal were to never have been made. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 04:05, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support - it's counterproductive to pile the blasted things up as has been done recently. Ingratis (talk) 05:16, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose, per RTH. Notability might be a hot topic right now, but it is still a topic that we are being productive on with many of the recently closed discussions have substantial results - and while I understand that many editors may disagree with those results, disagreeing with results in not a reason to shut down a topic. BilledMammal (talk) 07:26, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* This is not shutting anything down, it's just pressing pause on any future discussions until the current ones have concluded so that all the discussions can be productive without disrupting the encyclopaedia. Thryduulf (talk) 11:18, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support. This is starting to get the feel of certain editors attempting to get their way not by achieving actual consensus, but by exhausting so many of the contributors who have other better things to do in their wiki-editing that only the notability-crackdown enthusiasts are left. —David Eppstein (talk) 07:27, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose, this is far too broad. All the referenced RfCs appear to be unrelated and all opened by different editors. I don't think any of those editors should open up new large RfCs, but I'm not sure we should moratorium new ones from other editors. On these sorts of RfCs, I think it is useful to keep them open for a bit longer than normal so that there is more time for editors to add to them, at least until discussion dies down naturally, and pressure to close might pre-empt that. CMD (talk) 09:23, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* I fully understand the underlying sentiment, but I'm not convinced this is the right way to deal with the issue. We do seem to have a lot of RfCs with possibly wide-ranging consequences recently (not always advertised at all the places that would be affected by the proposal in violation of WP:LEOPARD). Some kind of rate limit and/or rejection of more under-prepared RfCs might be a good idea; this proposal is an emergency brake that doesn't really fix anything going forward. —Kusma (talk) 09:55, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* This is intended to allow some time and space for long-term solutions to be identified and developed. Thryduulf (talk) 11:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* On balance, I support. Discussions that are postponed by this will have more time to draft better RfCs in userspace or at the idea lab. —Kusma (talk) 13:30, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support, excellent idea. I think we're passed the point where these attempts to tighten notability standards have become disruptive. The volume, the bludgeoning, the attempts to make major changes based on local consensus – these are not the signs of a good faith attempt to build consensus. I hope this can cool things down, otherwise the next step has to be arbitration. – Joe (talk) 09:58, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support I have little to no skin in the game, and even I think some should keep NODEADLINE higher in their minds. AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 10:09, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose The numerous discussions are a sign that this complex area needs work, not that we should prohibit working on it. It might need better organization / coordination, but broadly nuking it like this is not a good idea. North8000 (talk) 10:22, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* This does not "nuke" anything, it simply requires that current discussions are concluded before starting any new ones - i.e. that better organisation/coordination you agree is needed. Thryduulf (talk) 11:15, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* i.e. that better organisation/coordination you agree is needed That's not what this proposal is asking for; even proposals that are well organized and coordinated would be prevented. If that was all this proposal was asking for I would support it - although there are other pages I would support it on first, such as WP:RSN which has far too many RSP-related RFC's. BilledMammal (talk) 11:25, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* No discussions will be prevented. They will just need to wait until the current discussions have concluded first. Thryduulf (talk) 11:28, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* One of the proposals on this list was work-shopped over repeated revisions for a period of months before being brought here. Particularly, the proposal should be neutrally-worded (which this one is not) and well-thought out so as not to have unexpected side-effects (which this one is not).
* What I'm hoping the proposer is getting a feel for here is, it's actually very difficult to bring a proposal here and I doubt any of the people doing so are doing so lightly. FOARP (talk) 22:40, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose More activity and discussion >> Less activity and discussion. Selfstudier (talk) 11:27, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose The large, dare I say say overwhelming, number of unsourced or poorly sourced stubs needs to be addressed, and the search for an approach that will receive a broad support should not be limited. - Donald Albury 12:20, 7 October 2023 (UTC) (Edited 12:25, 7 October 2023 (UTC))
* Strongly oppose: far too broad. Also per Selfstudier. My first thought on seeing this was: why the hell would we want to stymie discussion on important topics? Edward-Woodrow • talk 12:33, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* We don't want to stymie discussion, we want to facilitate productive discussion alongside productive contribution to the encyclopaedia without burnout. If there are too many concurrent discussions this is not possible. Thryduulf (talk) 13:19, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support It seems to me we need a bit of cooling off of the broad topic area, a lot of these discussions seem to have the same sides bludgeoning each other with increasing allegations of ABF on both sides. And I include the "paid advising" RFC in that.I note this type of behavior isn't specific to this topic area, a month or two back we had the same thing happen with proposals related to MOS:GENDERID where people jumped on the bandwagon of proposing things and forked off several new RFCs as old ones got too heated. In fact, it seems some of the same people were deeply involved in those as are in this one too... Anomie⚔ 12:36, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose - the problem isn't too many RFCs, it's a few editors bludgeoning the crap out of them. Deal with the bludgeoning editors instead of having a moratorium on RFCs. Levivich (talk) 14:47, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose. Badly thought out, and more or less certain to result in more round-in-circles arguing if anyone was so misguided as to try to enforce it in any but the most trivial cases. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:59, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose I can understand the sentiment, but this would have far to many consequences. Also why is Village pump (policy), it has nothing to do with "deletion, notability and related matters". I agree with others here that less replying to replies, of replies, of replies, etc.. would make a big improvement. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 17:24, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support something to halt the notability-RFC-after-notability-RFC-after-notability-RFC pattern - this is getting dizzying for me how many different notability proposals by the same group of editors are active. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* I have to wonder... I am one of those editors? Edward-Woodrow • talk 18:31, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* I don't know anymore...if you are one, I've lost track because of the sheer quantity of proposals. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:33, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Five is the quantity of notability proposals listed in this proposal. These five proposals were made by five different editors:, , , , and . I'm not sure how they constitute , as I'm unaware of them ever doing anything as a group, like repeatedly voting the same way in other RfCs or AfDs or anything. Five is not too many RFCs for me to keep track of, although if one writes a dozen or more comments per RfC, then I could see how doing that in five RFCs would be overwhelming. For everyone. Levivich (talk) 18:57, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* The "same group of editors" also implies there's some kind of deletionist conspiracy going on. Edward-Woodrow • talk 19:07, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Opposed - Having multiple large RFCs (on unrelated topics) hitting the Pump at the same time is nothing new, and is hardly disruptive. And it shouldn’t be a time sink. Just formulate your thoughts, state your opinion on the question as clearly as you can and move on to your regular editing. Don’t respond to other editor’s comments unless they directly ask you to clarify something you said. I know it is tempting to refute every opinion that disagrees with your own. Don’t do it. Don’t bludgeon the discussion. Blueboar (talk) 18:57, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose any attempt to shut down discussion on these topics. Also, what Levivich said. Certain editors (including the odd admin) need to take a step back and stop bludgeoning these RfCs every time someone disagree with them. wjematherplease leave a message... 19:24, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Once again this is not an attempt to "shut down" any discussion on anything, just to spread the discussions out in time. Thryduulf (talk) 19:34, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* The framing of the proposal (including the title) and several of the comments and contributions, both here and in the discussions listed, tell a different story. And you continue to bludgeon. wjematherplease leave a message... 06:32, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* If you wish to read something other than what I have written, and characterise the proposal based on what I haven't written, then that is your prerogative but please do not expect me to agree with you. Thryduulf (talk) 10:04, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose and Bad RFC - This is a non-neutrally-framed RFC question that simply assumes the proposals to be bad faith, and in some way connects a group of people who basically aren't connected. Particularly where they say "This is explicitly not intended to prevent or limit the asking of genuine questions" - does the proposer think the RFCs weren't genuine questions? The proposal would also block discussions that recently passed (but which the proposer opposed...) such as the LUGSTUBS draftification proposals. BM already agreed to withdraw their proposal on notability, so why is this proposal necessary? This is "temporary" moratorium that could last an indefinitely long amount of time given it being tied to the closure (after any review or other process) of five mostly unconnected discussions. Moreover the area banned for discussion includes a topic (mass creation of articles) that ARBCOM literally mandated discussion of (albeit that was withdrawn after no conclusion was reached, though obviously we should still try to reach some kind of conclusion). If you are exhausted in discussing certain issues then don't discuss them. If you want to do other things, then go and do them. It is the very essence of WP:BLUD/WP:BATTLEGROUND to think you have to rebut every single point in a discussion and cannot do anything else because you have to "win" for your "side". Finally, can I point out the extreme irony of attempting to shut down "exhausting" discussions by . . . making a proposal to shut them down then responding to people opposing with repetitive comments like "Once again this is not an attempt to "shut down" any discussion on anything"? FOARP (talk) 22:24, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Not an RfC. Edward-Woodrow • talk 22:29, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* I didn't know we could just jump over the neutrality requirement by simply not using the template? FOARP (talk) 22:34, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* This isn't an RFC, assumes nothing about the merits or otherwise of anybody or any discussion, assumes no good or bad faith about anything, does not connect the discussions in anything other than subject matter and makes no connections between those starting proposals (it doesn't even mention the discussion initiators at all so I'm puzzled where you've got this idea from?). No discussions are or will be "prohibited" or "blocked", no topic area is "banned" (as I've explicitly said multiple times now). Also, the moratorium idea was endorsed by multiple people with differing views on the merits of the different proposals, so this is not one side trying to "win" anything - the only suggestion of a battleground is from you. TLDR, almost none of what you've written relates to what has actually been proposed here, almost everything that does relate is incorrect. Thryduulf (talk) 23:06, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Literally the whole first paragraph is about why your proposal is a great idea - not a neutral question even in the slightest. ”as I’ve explicitly said multiple times now” - maybe learn something from this? FOARP (talk) 05:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* Whether it is neutral or not, exactly none of it assumes anything about the nature of the discussions, the merits of the discussions, or the initiators of the discussions. Try reading what I wrote rather than what you want me to have written. Thryduulf (talk) 10:00, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support It seems like a good idea to pace ourselves and obtain one consensus at a time, so that later discussions can refer to earlier ones. XOR'easter (talk) 00:17, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose. The listed discussions are only loosely related at best, and the proposed moratorium is unwarranted and absurdly broad. Adumbrativus (talk) 09:42, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose: Far too broad of a proposal and purports that other proposals are a burden upon others in some unclear way. Nom appears to be a long-winded case of WP:IDONTLIKEIT as it pertains to gaining the support of the wider community for various issues. User:Let'srun 12:50, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose This feels like a proposal in search of a problem, and a non-neutral framing of the situation. No one forces any editors to engage with any or all proposals, and they're not actually related to the same things. If there's an issue with vexatious RfCs or conduct therein, that can be dealt with at an editor level. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 17:58, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support - Many of the articles are being removed/drafted without proper research being done to see if they are or aren't notable. There's been many articles that were proven to be notable that were marked anyway to be drafted, yet nothing changes and nobody seems to care. I think it's wrong to ask people to look through a thousand articles at a time to check for notability. This is just turning into an endurance contest and that should not be what this is about. The best part about all of this is that it is becoming the exact same thing that mass article creations were about - getting things done fast and in large quantities, then worrying about the details later.KatoKungLee (talk) 21:18, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* oppose I don't think this make sense from a procedural perspective. In the first place, I don't see how anyone who wasn't here for this should feel in the last bit bound by it. Second, since the effect is basically to shut out those who have a problem with the status quo, it isn't really a moratorium for the proposers. Third, the only reason I can see for a moratorium is to discuss a larger scale proposal, which isn't out there yet. Mangoe (talk) 04:43, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose per Levivich, FOARP, and David Fuchs. XAM2175 (T) 23:14, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose: A good faith idea that is impractical to implement. This is certainly a non-neutrally-framed RFC question. Per user CMD's comments we can simply leave an entry open as long as there are recent comments. -- Otr500 (talk) 19:06, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
Discussion of temporary moratorium on new proposals
* Comment. Not sure the discussion on paying administrators to consult is on topic? Espresso Addict (talk) 01:26, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* @Thryduulf, should Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Boxing be in your list? WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:31, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* I wasn't aware of that discussion, but it could qualify. At present it doesn't seem to be utilising a lot of editor time, so I'll leave it off for now but it can be added if that changes. Thryduulf (talk) 11:25, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* I agree, the admin discussion seems unrelated to the problem of too many open fronts in the deletionist-inclusionist war and should be removed from the proposal. —Kusma (talk) 06:43, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* I included that discussion as it is a large discussion featuring a lot of the same editors with similar consequences for editor time. The point of this proposal is not a "deletionist-inclusionist war" (or any other "war") but too many large discussions open concurrently. This proposal would not stop a new discussion on that subject but I don't think that is likely. Thryduulf (talk) 11:23, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* If that's the case you may have wanted to title the section something other than Temporary moratorium on new proposals regarding deletion, notability and related matters. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 17:30, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* The title does accurately reflect the scope of the actual proposal being made. That doesn't mean it's perfect but I'm not sure I can come up with something that is both concise and not misleading - you might be able to (concise summaries are not my strong suit) but I'd prefer if comments could be restricted to matters related to the proposal as written rather than matters related to what a different proposal with this title might have said. Thryduulf (talk) 18:22, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* How is "Admins and being paid to advise on editing" related to deletion and notability? BilledMammal (talk) 05:31, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* In fact, I'm not even sure how "RfC on the "Airlines and destinations" tables in airport articles" is related to deletion and notability; if you could explain that as well I would appreciate it. BilledMammal (talk) 05:32, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* It is a discussion with potential destructive consequences for many articles. —Kusma (talk) 07:38, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* Which one? Regardless, that might be your opinion, but it doesn't explain how it is related to deletion or notability?, can you explain why you believe those two discussions are related to deletion or notability? BilledMammal (talk) 09:11, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* For the airlines discussion see point 2. For the admin discussion see previous answers. Thryduulf (talk) 09:57, 8 October 2023 (UTC)4
* Point 2 doesn't seem to be related to "notability and deletion"? Even on the basis of that, I have to agree with AD that your title is inaccurate and does not accurately reflect the scope of the actual proposal being made.
* For admin discussions, are you referring to I included that discussion as it is a large discussion featuring a lot of the same editors with similar consequences for editor time.? That doesn't explain how it is related to "notability and deletion"? BilledMammal (talk) 10:08, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* The title is "deletion, notability and related matters". If you read the whole of the answer you quote and replies you will see I have already answered your question regarding admin discussions. Thryduulf (talk) 10:11, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* The title is "deletion, notability and related matters". Yes. How is The inclusion/exclusion of types of content on a large number of pages related to deletion and notability?
* The rest doesn't answer my question; it's a discussion unrelated to "notability and deletion", and shouldn't be in the scope of this proposal. I agree with the above editors that you either need to reword the proposal, or remove that discussion. BilledMammal (talk) 10:42, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* This isn't how consensus works. We don't put gag orders on topics. The frequency of these discussions (and I expect more in the near future) indicates that there's a series of interrelated, long-standing problems that editors are finally attempting to fix. Even if this was something at all enforceable, I see little to gain by saying "fix them more slowly". Thebiguglyalien ( talk ) 18:34, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* BM’s RFC (which I think has been productive) has been withdrawn, as had been agreed before this present discussion even opened. The GEOLAND discussion I previously opened only had a relatively short period of time left before it was due to be archived anyway, and discussion there had come to a natural conclusion, but I’ve withdrawn it all the same. If these discussions truly were as taxing as made out here, closure of them could have been requested through the ordinary channels: I ask the proposer here to be consistent with their own statements about how tiring and distracting they find these discussions, and withdraw this one, which I do not believe is likely to pass. FOARP (talk) 11:27, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
* Indeed, with the closure of the prod discussion, I think we're now down to a reasonable number of discussions, so closing this one too would seem sensible. Espresso Addict (talk) 23:01, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
* Comment I agree with the above that having such a vast blanket mortarium on new proposals is misguided but I would like to express my concern/general worries about not just the haste and successiveness of these proposals but also the reach. A lot of the articles I've made/contributed to would be significantly affected by some of the proposed changes (particularly those in the deletionism/inclusionism field) but I only figured out about these proposals from random chance (one of the editors involved in these discussions happened to send me an unrelated message to me and took a while to respond so I got worried and noticed their contributions on the proposals). While in an ideal world going through proposals quickly and efficiently would be great, there has to be much more done in the way of notifying affected users, especially those who would be significantly impacted by each proposal or are an active, major contributor to a wikiproject that would be affected. That said, given the number of open discussions on the page has dropped sufficiently low, this proposal isn't really necessary (e.g. a mortarium isn't necessary) but it would be beneficial to take a patient/slow approach with future high-impact proposals (maybe extended the time a discussion could be kept open/active depending on the context?). Also, while I guess it would depend on the articles in question, it would also be good to have discussions about mass-deletions of fewer, more narrowly defined articles (I'm thinking specifically of the LUGStubs proposals which were overly expansive and poorly executed, imo). In any case, these are just my experiences, thoughts, and opinions but hopefully they have some bearing on this and future proposal discussions. Cheers, Dan the Animator 01:59, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
* This requirement cuts both ways though - we've seen in the past stub articles created at a rate of hundreds a days by an individual editor based on a single, primary source, with the explicit idea that other editors would expand the resulting stubs, but without anyone ever really being consulted on the idea. When it turned out that the sources they were using had been epicly mis-understood/were inaccurate and that there was no actual secondary sourcing on which those stubs could be expanded, it was already way too late for any intervention from the community to stop Wikipedia being spammed with tens of thousands of useless and inaccurate stubs. When confronted with this, the editor simply responded with bizarre accusations and quit the project. That was more than two years ago and we're still trying to clean up the resulting mess.
* No-one should simply build up a fait accompli of unimprovable stubs so numerous that none of the processes we have in place can handle them, without any discussion with anyone about it. We even had an ARBCOM ruling on this: "Editors who are collectively or individually making large numbers of similar edits, and are apprised that those edits are controversial or disputed, are expected to attempt to resolve the dispute through discussion. It is inappropriate to use repetition or volume in order to present opponents with a fait accompli or to exhaust their ability to contest the change. This applies to many editors making a few edits each, as well as a few editors making many edits." FOARP (talk) 07:44, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
* I fundamentally believe editor time is a precious resource we should try to be thoughtful about expending. But I don't understand, on a practical level, how this moratorium does anything productive. In order to do something productive in the end I feel like we'd have to set some priorities so that the questions that lots of editors care about aren't forced to wait in some queue for things relatively few people care about to be finished. And I just have trouble imagning that working. And frankly I think we could do better with being more decentralized in general. "Back in the olden days" these kinds of discussions were happening all the time, and no one saw it as a problem. Partly this is because of the editor base we had at the time (which wasn't necessarily larger but which was distributed and focused in different ways), but also, crucially, people didn't feel like decisions were as fixed so if you didn't have time at the moment it wasn't like you lost your chance to weigh in on the topic forever. Doing something about that feels equally as manageable as some kind of nebulous moritorium. Barkeep49 (talk) 22:14, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
Notice of proposal to blacklist an image
I started a proposal on Talk:2023_Israel–Hamas_war about blacklisting a particular piece of media. You might want to read that discussion for context before commenting. Awesome Aasim 15:06, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* PS you can add an RfC tag before this proposal. Awesome Aasim 15:09, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* The blacklisting has already been discussed at the correct place (MediaWiki talk:Bad image list) and rejected. —Kusma (talk) 15:19, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Uhhh.... I am pretty sure the edit protected template must be used after obtaining consensus. Since there was no consensus established and it turned out to be a contentious matter I withdrew my request. Awesome Aasim 16:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Consensus determines whether or not an image is used in an article. The Bad image list is mostly an anti-vandalism tool, where the inclusion is on basis of need. You do not need to show consensus, but necessity. —Kusma (talk) 18:49, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
Discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Articles for creation § Where should we place the scam warning?
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Articles for creation § Where should we place the scam warning?. Ca talk to me! 14:04, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
Stepanakert/Khankendi
An unrecognized state in Nagorno-Karabakh no longer exists, the city of Khankendi is completely under the control of Azerbaijan, they even hung a state flag there. But the Armenian moderator cancel edits about renaming the city, leaving the unrecognized and irrelevant name “Stepanakert”. Please make the title "Khankendi" in the article <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 09:17, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* Per Official names, we do not change the name of an article just to recognize an official name. The naming of the article should be in accordance with the provisions of Article titles. Discussion about renaming the article should continue on the article's talk page. Donald Albury 12:03, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
Hebrew in Latin
Hello, I’ve noticed that many Hebrew words are transcribed wrongly. For example, on of the cities in Israel is transcribed instead of , so are many other places in Israel. I suggest changing all names according to this very list: https://hebrew-academy.org.il/2022/06/27/%d7%a8%d7%a9%d7%99%d7%9e%d7%aa-%d7%94%d7%99%d7%99%d7%a9%d7%95%d7%91%d7%99%d7%9d-%d7%91%d7%99%d7%a9%d7%a8%d7%90%d7%9c/
This isn’t only for English, but for any language that uses the Latin alphabet – French, German and even Turkish. מושא עקיף (talk) 03:19, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
* The general rule on English Wikipedia is to use the name most commonly used in reliable English-language sources, even if that differs from the official transliteration. In the case of Holon/H̱olon, it seems as though the transliteration without the diacritic is common and the usage is in line with our usual policy Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 13:18, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
Reopen Wikipedia:Books page since the concept of a "Wikipedia Book" still exist
Whether a Wikipedia Book was created using the Book Tool or not, this page needs to be reopened immediately even if the namespace was removed or if the tool is not working. The more general concept of a Wikipedia Book still exists. ModernDaySlavery (talk) 20:26, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
* The page tell us about a tool and namespace that are no longer functioning or available. Book tool no longer functions and namespace deleted. Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 22:53, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* Book tool still does function, just the PDF functionality doesn't function. Also I removed references to the namespace. Also if you want I can even add the book tool is no longer supported (even only a feature of it isnt supported) but the concept of a book made of wikipedia article is very important and therefore the page should still continue. ModernDaySlavery (talk) 23:00, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* As the Book Creator no longer generates copies of Wikipedia books, its primary working feature directs users to order printed Wikipedia books from PediaPress, a third-party company. Editors in discussion valued the user experience of Wikipedia readers over the business prospects of PediaPress. Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 23:37, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* It does generate Wikipedia books just not in PDF form. See User:Lasertrimman/Books/Hart / OSI. In addition there is also MediaWiki2LaTeX that allows you to download Wikipedia Books. Also like I said the concept of a Wikipedia Book remains, a Wikipedia Book doesn't even need to be created by the Wikipedia Book tool, it just refers to a collection of Wikipedia articles. Creating a new Article for the concept doesn't make sense. ModernDaySlavery (talk) 23:57, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
Signature wiki markup
Increase the character limit for signatures if it is wiki markup. Wiki markup is far longer than regular text making the current limit rather stifling, especially if you are using many formattings/templates. G'year talk · mail 22:41, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* Then don't use so many formattings, and do not use (unsubsted) templates, parser functions, images, and so on . See Signatures for why the current technical limitation is embraced by our signature guideline, so even though you've apparently found a way around it you're not allowed to make use of it. Anomie⚔ 11:42, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
Elon Musk
It usually isn't a good idea to feed the trolls or fan the flames, but should editors draft a formal response to Musk's increasing attacks on Wikipedia? He is, after all, one of the most influential people in the world — ironically according to the "mainstream media" that he hates. Musk has always been critical of Wikipedia (and by extension, the WMF), but recently he has been mounting an all-out attack on the platform formally known as Twitter:. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:01, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* I say no. He's the ultimate troll. Jimbo has done a fine job of responding on his own. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:05, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* Ignore. It’s all hot air. Loads of people gripe about Wikipedia. He can join the queue. Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 19:15, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* Ignore. Musk is just scared. The Banner talk 00:34, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* I would be somewhat more concerned about the potential of trolls coming here and trying to create exactly the kind of chaos one might predict from that high-profile tweet. Yes, I know we are already dealing with that all the time, but let's apply some extra caution. BD2412 T 00:53, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* I agree with everybody else here that the best solution here is to ignore Musks immature gripings. Hemiauchenia (talk) 01:31, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* There's around a thousand admins. We can edit the main page. That's a million dollars each. Who's with me?! ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:33, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* Unfortunately for you, the 12 interface admins, who can modify the MediaWiki files and change the name of the site everywhere, have a better chance of claiming the money. Plus, it's almost 100 million each - who could blame them? BilledMammal (talk) 01:37, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* Brb, opening a request at WP:BN. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:39, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* Keeping it that way a full year is absurd. Would he pro-rate the payment so that we could just do it for a day and get $2.74 million? jp×g 04:34, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* DNFTT. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:34, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* No, per AndyTheGrump. -- Euryalus (talk) 01:47, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* To be honest, Musk makes some legitimate points. I mean, not the one about rebranding, that was just silly. But this tweet about excessive fundraising makes much the same criticisms as WP:CANCER. This tweet about editorial hierachy and bias is another fair observation. This tweet about source bias might indicate a misunderstanding of our purpose (we're source-summarisers, not truth-finders), but let's be honest, the average reader probably does think of us as truth-finders, and if you think Wikipedians ought to be truth-finders then it's an arguable point. Rather than attack or ignore Musk's points, we should do what we always do: take feedback on board and keep working to improve the encyclopedia. – Teratix ₵ 02:19, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* He distorts, bullies, misrepresents, lies, personally attacks. He's doing it for a reason, but it's not to legitimately criticize Wikipedia for ours, or anyone's benefit, only his own. Furthermore, nothing he said is original, he has no new insights. Don't try to legitimize or normalize it. -- Green C 05:27, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* We shouldn't ignore criticisms because we don't like who they come from or because other people have made them before. Please don't insinuate my response was intended to "legitimize or normalize" lies or attacks. – Teratix ₵ 06:49, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* Criticism needs to be rooted in facts. Say what you want about Guy and Andreas, at least there is some substance to their grievances. This is just fear mongering, attacking institutions and knowledge. It's classic populism, amplified by right wing media who are whipping up a frenzy because they are sad. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 11:52, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* To be fair, we do some truth-finding by limiting input to sources which, in our subjective opinion, are reliable. That's a useful function and performed as objectively as possible, so I'd see it as a point in Wikipedia's favour rather than valid criticism. Wikipedia isn't perfect but, if recent changes at Twitter are any indication, Musk's involvement might not lead to improvement. Certes (talk) 10:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, but I don't see any criticisms in common between the excessive funding tweet and WP:CANCER, except the overarching claim that it doesn't cost as much to run Wikipedia as the money it raises. The only specific point made in the tweet is the false statement that Wikipedia can fit on a phone. And when Musk says Wikipedia is "inherently hierarchical", what is he talking about? Bryan Henderson (giraffedata) (talk) 18:56, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* Surely, in a free country, some guy is entitled to log onto his own website and write a post on it that some other website is stupid, whether or not his post is itself stupid. Of course, I guess we could put together an essay saying his post was stupid. It was kind of stupid. Of course, it was also kind of true. Anyway, we are always willing to publish good writing in the Signpost. Perhaps that'd be better than letting other news outlets valiantly defend our honor by reassuring their readers that everyone on Wikipedia is 100% in favor of all WMF spending. jp×g 04:32, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* Just ignore him. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 15:02, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* Never heard of him. Levivich (talk) 02:29, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support accepting the $1 Billion offer. Sports stadiums sell (temporary) branding rights, and here we have a $1 Billion offer by Musk to change our name to "Dickipedia". Before you get on your "not for sale" or "haggling about the price" soapbox, just consider how we could spin the marketing here, have a little fun with it, and laugh all the way to the bank. We could stick a cartoon of Dick Tracy on the main page and explain how editors do detective work ("Dick" is a 19th/20thC slang for detective) to find reliable sources to improve articles. After just one year, Musk says we can change the name back. And if in October 2024, Scrooge McDuck wants to buy the one-year naming rights for "Duckipedia", then we should take his money too. Hold Musk to his word—the former management and shareholders of Twitter are glad they did. Cheers! BBQboffin (talk) 05:08, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* I think you're on to something here. Let's just have an RFC on this and then split the money between the RFC voters. Levivich (talk) 05:47, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* Would we have to deprecate WP:DONTBEADICK? Certes (talk) 10:14, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* @Certes, WP:BEADICK is just waiting to be written. — Qwerfjkl talk 16:11, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* Stop your dicking around, will you? GenQuest "scribble" 17:40, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose WMF already has more money than it needs (acquired from people who want to support Wikipedia (not WMF)) and spends too much of it elsewhere and not enough on Wikipedia. Also, as back of the envelope estimate, the main value of Wikipedia is the approx $50 Billion in unpaid volunteer time that has gone into it. You don't get renaming rights on that by giving $1 Billion to somebody else (WMF). North8000 (talk) 12:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* Hear! Hear! GenQuest "scribble" 17:40, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
Article renaming
Hi, my problem is the article renaming of Dobrujan Tatar, we did make some discussions, but there is no result. Where I think it's better to rename it to "Dobrujan Tatar language". But everytime it's rejected, for the first time it was called "Dobrujan Tatar", we did make a discussion, there was the result "Dobrujan Tatar dialect", for the second discussion was actually not result to find (but there was an Idea, called "Dobrujan Tatar dialects"). And also I think the name "Dobrujan Tatar dialect" was wrong. Zolgoyo (talk) 22:15, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* Consensus is that that is not the right name for the article. Edward-Woodrow • talk 21:21, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
Automatically put RfCs that are 30+ days old to WP:CR
WP:RFCEND says that by default, will assign a 30-day period to an RfC and then "forget" about it. I have encountered some unclosed RfCs in the archives. Currently, to create a request, a user must manually submit it to CR. Because most discussions are closeable at the 30-day mark, it would make sense to list all of these "old discussions" so that people direct their attention to them. Can someone write a piece of code that would contain the following info:
* Where the discussion is
* How old it is (determined by timestamp of when the rfc started)
* How many comments were submitted during the past 7 days to the discussion
* Some boilerplate text (eg. This discussion has likely reached maturity. An uninvolved editor is asked to close it if its outcome is already clear). Szmenderowiecki (talk) 17:03, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* See WP:WHENCLOSE. Not everything needs a formal close, and if everybody has moved on without one then that's usually a sign one wasn't needed. Also, some discussions are very much not mature at the 30 day mark. Together this means that this proposal would fill up WP:CR with discussions that don't need closing (yet) making it harder for prospective closers to find the ones that do. Thryduulf (talk) 19:56, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
2023 Israel–Hamas war has an RFC
2023 Israel–Hamas war has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. BilledMammal (talk) 01:50, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
RfC: Enabling collapsible templates on the mobile site
Should a JavaScript gadget be installed and enabled by default to enable collapsible templates on the mobile site? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:35, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Background (enabling collapsible templates on the mobile site)
When users of the mobile site encounter content in a collapsed template, they always see the content in an uncollapsed state with no way to collapse it. On some pages this can result in a long list to scroll past. For example, compare the "official status" section in the infobox of the article about the English language on the mobile site with the same article on the desktop site.
This has been a longstanding issue, T111565 has been open since 2015. In response to myself and @Izno, @Matma Rex (who works for the WMF) said the following: As there are people opposed to making this change in MediaWiki core, I would suggest doing it in your wiki's MediaWiki:Common.js or a gadget, as long as your community finds that agreeable.
The reason some oppose making the change in MediaWiki core is the "fat finger problem", some people may have difficulty to tap short links titled "Hide" or "Show". The proposed gadget alleviates this issue by enforcing a minimal link element width of 6em.
The gadget can be tested on betacommons. If any bugs or serious issues with the gadget surface the deployment will be delayed until those issues are resolved. Similar to WP:ENOM, if the gadget is deployed this will be done in waves. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:35, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Survey (enabling collapsible templates on the mobile site)
* Support as proposer. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:44, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose Default for now - the use case is niche for forcing a gadget on to every single reader on every single page load. — xaosflux Talk 10:39, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
* Mostly indifferent on Opt-In along with user:Folly Mox below. — xaosflux Talk 15:22, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
* @Xaosflux, @Izno in supporting below notes that it's only about 10 lines of code. Is your argument that even this is going to create an unacceptable performance impact? (Is there any way to measure that?) Or is there another reason besides performance that having gadgets addressing niche use cases is bad? {{u| Sdkb }} talk 05:12, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support at least making the gadget available as opt-in. Although honestly this should be done in the mediawiki core without concern for whether or not people will be able to register a tap on the expand / collapse element at default zoom. The "back to citation" carets (and letters for reused citations) to hop from the References section back to the prose are already too small to register a tap reliably, but of course mobile users know to zoom in on anything they're not able to select due to size.I feel like up until a few months ago, collapsible templates were always just stuck in their default state, so anything set to autocollapse was just hidden entirely and required hopping into desktop view. Having everything uncollapsed everywhere is better, but still incredibly inconvenient for certain pages. For example this page, WP:VPR, which still currently features WP:LUGSTUBS2 at the top, with an uncollapsed list of over a thousand entries to scroll past before reaching the discussion, or User:XOR'easter/sandbox/ReferenceExpander, with something like 2300 table entries to scroll past before reaching the diffs that have not yet been repaired.This doesn't address the larger issue of the mobile interface hiding navigation templates, but it feels like a step directly towards that direction. Folly Mox (talk) 13:35, 3 September 2023 (UTC) Switched to full support 18:14, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support as opt-in. Edward-Woodrow :) [ talk ] 20:31, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
* I have no true objections. Overall i think collapsibility is generally a failure of authorship, but that ship has long since sailed. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 12:25, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support as default - This would bring a much-needed basic function to the mobile interface. Any solution should be enabled by default for logged-out users since they make up the vast majority of our readership and don’t have the ability to opt-in or, for all intents and purposes, ask for changes to be made. –dlthewave ☎ 14:30, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
* But logged-in users don't make up the mast majoriy of our readership, just the majority of the editorship. Kind of a big difference. Only about 6% of our readers have ever edited here. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 23:20, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support as default for logged-out users. Don't much care what the default is for logged-in users, as long as each user can select their own preferred setting. MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:56, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support as an option, unsure on whether to make it default. People who want collapsible stuff on mobile should be able to get collapsible stuff. I do think further discussion is needed on whether this should be the default for logged out users. I get that it could be useful, but I also have to give due consideration to the idea of the gadget potentially being "forced" on users. Ideally, I'd like for Wikipedia to avoid any situation reminiscent of the Vector 2022 RFC, or the niche but much more controversial recent drama on the Minecraft server 2b2t. Invading Invader (userpage, talk) 16:58, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
* How would you feel about enabling the feature but not collapsing anything by default? Pages would display as they do now, there would just be a Show/Hide button that readers could use if they wanted to. –dlthewave ☎ 00:01, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
* Stil unsure. Invading Invader (userpage, talk) 18:25, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support, but prefer collapsed not the default. Collapsibility should work, but content shouldn't be hidden by default. No reason to distinguish between logged-out and logged-in users, if possible, except to allow logged-in users to set a preference that sticks. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 23:20, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
* SMcCandlish, just to clarify here: the gadget enables collapsible templates just like the desktop site. ( with one exception: "autocollapse" is always collapsed, but this affects pretty much exclusively navboxes which aren't rendered on mobile anyway atm and I suspect many people don't even know how autocollapse actually works autocollapse also functions the same as on desktop now) Whether anything is collapsed by default depends on the classes/template parameters used, just like the desktop site currently. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:10, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
* Great. That works for me. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 18:44, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support, including for editors logged out. The gadget is only about 10 lines of code and brings the mobile website inline with how the desktop website works. Editors logged in don't use the mobile website, more or less. We're trying to target the ones using the mobile site, which is the set of people who don't have access to an opt in. Subsequently, I don't really understand why the several editors above have said "only opt in". Izno (talk) 00:34, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose - Right now, the mobile and desktop experience is very fragmented and inconsistent, but the long term solution is not to bodge together some JavaScript gadget that will be unnecessary and that might break when the two are reunified. There is this long term goal of unifying the mobile and desktop experiences through making Vector 2022 responsive (see T106463) but that seems mostly stalled because some editors really despise responsive skins. And I agree - coming from wikiHow, where a responsive skin was deployed in 2020, responsive designs done wrong can make the experience worse for everyone. But when done right, like in Timeless, it makes the experience so much more consistent. Aasim - Herrscher of Wikis ❄️ 13:58, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
* Awesome Aasim, just to clarify, the gadget doesn't really implement collapsible templates. After checking if any collapsible elements are present on the page it just loads the MediaWiki module that handles this. If native MediaWiki support arrives some day, it'll be virtually identical. This also means that if support for collapsible elements on Minerva is ever added to MediaWiki core this gadget can simply be disabled as it's expected to be functionally identical anyway. See also the patch that was submitted but sadly not merged.Note that plwiki has already deployed something similar, though somewhat less efficient because they load the module unconditionally. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:25, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support, as opt-out. I would prefer to not have collapsed as the default though. Some page elements in mobile can be very unwieldy and often annoying to scroll through. Given that most of our traffic comes from mobile devices, we shouldn't have elements that are hidden in mobile only. I feel adding a small show/hide button on collapsible elements would cause the least amount of disruption. Ca talk to me! 23:41, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support, as in mobile such templates could not be seen which makes the reading experience worse than desktop. Lightoil (talk) 03:40, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
* Strong support The collapsible templates, among other stuff, make navigation between articles which are thematically connected a much easier task; the lack of their implementation on the mobile site was a major downside of the latter. Handmeanotherbagofthemchips (talk) 17:47, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
* Strong support as well, this seems like a really useful feature for us mobile users. I think it's best to be done as a global default.PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 16:12, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
Discussion (enabling collapsible templates on the mobile site)
@Xaosflux, there are actually quite some use cases. Sidebar with collapsible lists for example is disabled on mobile because mobile can't collapse anything. As a result, any content that is shown using that template is inaccessible on mobile. Sidebar with collapsible lists is transcluded nearly 90.000 times. While this template won't suddenly become visible with this gadget (it uses the nomobile class), editors will be able to decide on a case-by-case basis if such a sidebar should also be visible on mobile which can be viable once collapsible elements are made available. For another example of an even longer list of countries in an infobox, see IPhone 14.<br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"/>Some numbers on performance impact: the gadget is currently just 911 751 bytes and gets cached in localStorage. Measuring how long the script takes to load on a page without collapsible elements is difficult because a duration of less than 1 millisecond is hard to measure accurately. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:09, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
* I'm pretty sure that discussion has already occurred that it was appropriate to not show this content on mobile; if it isn't it should be just fixed. — xaosflux Talk 15:20, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
* Xaosflux, if at some point collapsible elements become available on mobile, like with this gadget, the editorial decision could be made on a per-article basis. There are other considerations regarding sidebars and navboxes, but there would be options. The status quo for existing usage of Sidebar with collapsible lists wouldn't change, but for existing usage a parameter could be implemented to suppress the class or it could switch to a different template. Module talk:Sidebar/Archive 6 is an example where this could be done. According to that thread, " is used because the old class is already hard-coded to be removed on mobile, but I wanted to change that class name to reflect the name of this module and because it was shorter for the purposes of TemplateStyles, so I added as a result." It doesn't say why, but the fact nothing can be collapsed on mobile will surely be one of the reasons for this.<br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"/> is actually a hack, quote from User talk:Jon (WMF): "as the Minerva maintainer I'd love to remove the `nomobile` class in the Minerva skin eventually. Now all that said I wouldn't rely on `nomobile` at all to be honest. It was a short term fix for a long term problem. If you are using TemplateStyles just add a media query and display: none anything that you don't want to show on mobile and avoid the class entirely. There's no need to rely on it. Sure this will increase the HTML payload of mobile, but leave that to us WMF staff - we can always add rules for DOM-heavy elements at a later date."<br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"/>The overall sentiment seems to be that navboxes should be enabled on mobile. See also T124168. In what exact form is TBD, but one thing seems clear: without the ability to make elements collapsible on mobile, it can't ever happen. As a side note, the proposed gadget has one extra trick up its sleeve: it enables the creation of elements that are collapsible on mobile but don't become collapsible on desktop. This would make it possible to make long lists or tables collapsible on mobile only, potentially saving mobile users from some lengthy scrolling. Update: this mobile-only feature has been commented out for now and may be revisited if the gadget gets enabled as a default gadget. This gadget now more purely aims to replicate the functionality of the desktop site without alterations.<span id="Alexis_Jazz:1693791122277:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:32, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
* The reason these don't display on mobile is partially the display. But a bigger reason is that navboxes do not suit the mobile need, which is predominantly get in and get out with the desired fact. This quality, combined with the basically useless and usually quite large HTML downloaded just to inevitably not need a navbox is why these are "disabled". (Why yes, MobileFrontend does rip them fully out of the HTML.) IznoPublic (talk) 15:45, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
Question - As a Gadget, would this be enabled for logged-out users? –dlthewave ☎ 14:35, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
* Dlthewave, the way I phrased the proposal ("installed and enabled by default"), yes. However, if many votes include the condition that it be made opt-in I would consider that a valid outcome as well. If it would be enabled by default it would allow editors to assume the feature is available to mobile users when writing templates and articles which won't be the case if it's opt-in, but c'est la vie. If the proposal passes (without opt-in condition) the gadget will be deployed in waves. At first it'd be enabled for admins only and every week or so another group would be added: WP:extendedconfirmed, wp:autoconfirmed and finally everyone (including logged-out users).<span id="Alexis_Jazz:1693791887678:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 01:44, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
* Good! I wasn't quite sure how gadgets worked, wanted to make sure it would eventually be available to all users. –dlthewave ☎ 02:44, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
* Dlthewave, a gadget is a collection of JavaScript and/or CSS pages, similar to WP:User scripts. Unlike user scripts, they are centrally governed in MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition. Some gadgets, for example Reference Tooltips, have the "default" parameter set in MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition, those are enabled and loaded by default. The wording "enabled by default" in the proposal refers to the parameter in Gadgets-definition.<span id="Alexis_Jazz:1693810660448:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 06:57, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for working on this. I left some suggestions for the implementation at Wikipedia talk: MakeMobileCollapsible.
Before enabling the gadget, please consider whether the "mobile-only collapsible" feature is really desirable. Personally I think we should avoid adding any mobile-only and desktop-only features these days, to avoid confusion for people who only use desktop or only mobile and see different things. It might also lead people to use collapsible elements in cases where other approaches would be better (per MOS:COLLAPSE): moving the content to a separate section (which are already collapsible on mobile, and easier to navigate using the TOC on desktop), or to a separate page – and since it would be mobile-only, the desktop power-users might not notice it.
And while we're talking about MOS:COLLAPSE, it will need some updating about the mobile support. Matma Rex talk 12:33, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
* Matma Rex, interesting points. I added the "mobile-only collapsible" feature because it was easy and I believe there is a difference between mobile and desktop here: scrolling is more labor-intensive on mobile devices as you have no page up/page down keys and dragging the scrollbar is more difficult without a mouse or touchpad. If it turns out the feature goes unused or causes people to use less optimal approaches it could be removed easily and any existing uses could be updated by a bot in that case.<br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"/>Header levels above level 2 don't become collapsible on mobile. I guess the only way to find out if it's a good idea is to just see if and how people would use it. If people don't use it or only use it when other approaches would be better, it could be scrapped at a later point. Btw, one way to use that feature is to combine mw-collapsible with mw-collapsed-mobileonly, resulting in a collapsible element on both mobile and desktop but which is only collapsed by default on mobile. I also think mobile-only collapsing could be an alternative for the nomobile class in some cases.<span id="Alexis_Jazz:1693834363847:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:32, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
* Firefox won't even let me drag the scrollbar. It only supports manual scrolling. On the pages I linked to in my not-vote, it might take me forty or sixty seconds to scroll all the way down to what I'm tryna read. Usually I end up all the way at the foot of the page and have to work my way back up, but too aggressive of an upscroll will – alas – trigger a page reload. Anything to help ameliorate this would be quite welcome. Folly Mox (talk) 18:11, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
* While we're on this tangent, adding a collapsibility to level three subheadings, defaulted to uncollapsed, would be pretty nice. Some of those get real long, and it would be convenient to collapse them if I'm editing them one after another. Folly Mox (talk) 18:31, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
* I agree with Matma Rex here: let's not introduce mobile specific behavior, especially since that's not the primary point of the change we're trying to make here. (And were you going to do it, using the same class namespace as core functionality is a bad idea "mw-".) IznoPublic (talk) 15:51, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
* @Matma Rex, what specifically needs updating about MOS:COLLAPSE? IznoPublic (talk) 15:48, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
* For example this part: "the mobile version of the site, which has a limited set of features and does not support collapsing". Matma Rex talk 16:50, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
* It... Doesn't, still. We just went from "displays nothing" to "displays everything", so I think that statement remains valid. (Perhaps less than obviously the context of that section ignores MF collapsing whole sections.)
* As for limited set of features for mobile, yeah, less true, but also not totally relevant to that section, so removing it in toto might be called for. Izno (talk) 00:20, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oh, "will need". Missed the auxillary verb. Izno (talk) 00:36, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
* Matma Rex, following your and Izno's comments, I commented out the mobile-only collapsing feature for now. If the gadget gets enabled by default I plan to open a discussion on enabling it again. Maybe in some more limited form, like only changing the default collapse state on mobile. For now, the gadget just aims to replicate the collapsing functionality from the desktop site.<span id="Alexis_Jazz:1694090046795:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:34, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
* Mobile viewers should be able to see the same templates as desktop users. It's somewhat baffling to me that we have different versions of the site for desktop and mobile viewers. The latter cannot, for example, expand a cot or a hat (why?). Many navigation templates in articles are just unusable on mobile, meaning that if you want readers to actually be able to see what you're writing, you must include it twice. jp×g 21:32, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
* JPxG, the answer to your "why?" question is in the background info: The reason some oppose making the change in MediaWiki core is the "fat finger problem", some people may have difficulty to tap short links titled "Hide" or "Show". The proposed gadget alleviates this issue by enforcing a minimal link element width of 6em.<br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"/>This is why jquery.makeCollapsible doesn't get loaded on the mobile site. The proposed gadget loads on the mobile site. @Awesome Aasim, I should have mentioned it in my reply to you above some time ago, but is the module that I was talking about. A WMF developer suggested that individual projects should load this module using MediaWiki:Common.js or a gadget, so this isn't expected to break anything in the future.<span id="Alexis_Jazz:1695162719911:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:31, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
RfC about the criteria for existence of emoji redirects
What should be done with emoji redirects, particularly with emoji redirects that are found to represent vague concepts that are not well reflected on Wikipedia? Utopes (talk / cont) 02:52, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 1: All emoji redirects should target lists of symbols by default, such as emoji which appear on Supplemental Symbols and Pictographs or Symbols and Pictographs Extended-A.
* Option 2: Emoji redirects should only target pages where the emoji is directly mentioned or referred to, such as Face with Tears of Joy emoji. All other emoji should instead exist as redirects to relevant lists of symbols.
* Option 3: Emoji redirects should only target pages where the emoji's depiction is deemed unambiguous, such as 🔥 being a redirect to fire. All other emoji should instead exist as redirects to relevant lists of symbols.
* Option 4: Emoji redirects should only target pages where the emoji's depiction is deemed unambiguous, such as 🔥 being a redirect to fire. All other emoji with ambiguous designs should be deleted, and not target lists of symbols.
* Option 5: Emoji redirects should only target pages where the emoji is directly mentioned or referred to, such as Face with Tears of Joy emoji. All other emoji redirects should be deleted.
* Option 6: Delete all emoji redirects.
Update: The options have been recontextualized. If an article mentions or refers to an emoji, such as Face with Tears of Joy emoji, it is currently practiced to have the emoji in question (😂 in this instance) exist as a redirect to such page. This is the status quo for these situations, which is not being disputed. This RfC was intended to address the gray area where there isn't a perfect match for a target, so I've narrowed the options as follows:
For emoji redirects that don't have an associated article in existence, should we: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Utopes (talk • contribs) 16:45, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 1: Retarget all other emoji redirects to lists of symbols by default, such as emoji which appear on Supplemental Symbols and Pictographs or Symbols and Pictographs Extended-A.
* Option 2: Retarget to pages where the emoji's depiction is deemed unambiguous, such as 🔥 being a redirect to fire, and retarget ambiguous emoji to relevant lists of symbols.
* Option 3: Retarget to pages where the emoji's depiction is deemed unambiguous, such as 🔥 being a redirect to fire, and delete all other emoji redirects with ambiguous meanings.
* Option 4: Delete all other emoji redirects without associated articles.
Background (emoji redirects)
Over the last several months, there have been several Redirects for Discussion entries at increasing frequency about the justification for the existence of emoji redirects. At this point, there are often several different discussions happening on a weekly basis, which often boil down to the same general viewpoints about how to deal with redirect emojis as a whole. Some past discussions that have recently closed in September and early October include the following: RfD on 🤪, RfD on 🙀, RfD on 🤭, RfD on 👩%E2%80%8D💻, RfD on 💨, RfD on 🫸, among many discussions which were also ongoing during this period, as well as many others which have cropped up and still have not been closed. The only precedence which has been recorded is in an RfD subset page which documents the common outcomes of discussions, and under the section for WP:REMOJI. During recent discussions, however, this documentation has been challenged and dated, particularly relating to emoji that can be depicted and interpreted differently on multiple platforms and different people, and whether or not a redirect is necessary for these emoji in the first place. Comments on this matter would be appreciated to help determine whether or not all emoji should inherently be considered as "likely search terms" and automatically exist as redirects, or whether there should be criteria for inclusion for emoji redirects to exist in the first place. Utopes (talk / cont) 02:52, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
Survey (Emoji redirects)
* I sympathize most with Option 2, and I would further suggest that most or almost all such 'single-glyph redirects' should be treated in basically this way, as I see this system as being the most helpful to the reader (though I am happy to be persuaded otherwise! ). For example, suppose I were to encounter the symbol ❦, unfamiliar to me, in a digital document; to learn about it, my most obvious course of action would be to copy and paste that single character into the search bar. If I were to do so right now, I would be redirected to fleuron (typography), which explains what this glyph is and how it's used. This behavior makes sense to me. Moreover, if an article specifically about some glyph does not exist (as is the case for ⌀), then it makes sense to me that a search for that glyph should redirect to whatever location deals most specifically with it as a glyph (in this case, diameter). At the moment, this seems like helpful redirect behavior, and I don't see why emojis in particular should be treated much differently. Tl;dr: I think redirects from emojis should generally point the reader to a location that discusses the emoji as an emoji. Shells-shells (talk) 03:44, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* I am not sure about my terminology, so feel free to substitute grapheme or character or some other term in the place of glyph as you like. Shells-shells (talk) 04:06, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 2, was writing more but Shells-shells covered it very elegantly. Glyphs should redirect to the location where readers can learn more about that glyph. If the best is a list of glyphs, redirect there. Don't redirect to a particular interpretation of meaning, emojis take on different meanings in conversation far removed from the official intention. CMD (talk) 03:51, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Note to closer When I wrote this option 2 was entirely different, it should not be taken as support for the (as of this timestamp) current option 2. CMD (talk) 01:35, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 7, do not try to prescribe this centrally, but let RFD do its thing on individual redirects based on individual consensus. Do not mass-create, do not mass-delete. —Kusma (talk) 09:24, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* We've tried to this, with not-so-pretty results. Edward-Woodrow • talk 12:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* I would strongly push back against that characterization. -- Tavix ( talk ) 13:26, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* I agree with Tavix. The recent discussions of emoji redirects have pretty much all ended in a clear consensus and the discussions have been perfectly civil affairs. Thryduulf (talk) 14:49, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* In addition, keep all emoji redirects that are potentially affected by this discussion but haven't been tagged for deletion, per WP:LEOPARD. Option 8 is also better than the options presented above. —Kusma (talk) 13:32, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* I disagree. Individual debates are often long and ineffective. Martin Tauchman (talk) 14:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* ... but aren't they more likely to produce the correct result for individual emoji? —Kusma (talk) 15:57, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 3 (the numbers changed?): the "definitions" of emojis, frequently touted by Keep !voters at RfD, may be subject to change, and, furthermore, the interpretation of what an emoji means is wholly subjective and may vary from person to person. Worse, display varies across operating systems and devices, adding another layer of complexity. In this way, I believe ambiguous emoji redirects should be deleted, as their interpretations may vary, and no target is good. Retargeting to the emoji block is not very helpful to the reader, as all it tells them is "wow, it's an emoji", while targetting to the "definition" is only one of many interpretations. Straightforward emoji redirects, like the fire example mentioned, should probably be kept, as they indirectly inform the reader of the meaning of the emoji.Take 🤪. Is that silliness? Zanyness? Insanity? Drunkenness? Or just someone having a really good time? Who knows? The consensus of that discussion was retarget to Supplemental Symbols and Pictographs, which is better than the alternatives, I guess, but not really helpful to the reader, as explained above. Edward-Woodrow • talk 12:21, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 2 is my second choice. I strongly oppose Option 8. We should not have to create entire DAB pages for emojis. We're not emojipedia. And, as a side comment, there is a tendency at RfD that the "definition" of the emoji as listed in unicode is the end-all of potential interpretations. Edward-Woodrow • talk 19:45, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* And also, I maintain that emojis are unlikely search terms, that we're not emojipedia, and that we should have to provide results for people pasting emojis into the search bar for who-knows-what reason. But consensus seems unlikely to swing that way. Edward-Woodrow • talk 19:48, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* I personally would find Supplemental Symbols and Pictographs useful, as it tells me the unicode number for 🤪. There are other websites I suppose, but I don't think a redirect to information about the emoji is a bad thing for en.wiki. CMD (talk) 12:26, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Note the official Unicode character names cannot change, to the point where errors are left uncorrected. See Unicode Technical Note #27, Known Anomalies in Unicode Character Names for examples. isaacl (talk) 16:04, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 6 deals soundly with vacuous, cretinous inanity. Serial 12:24, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 8. Emojis with articles should target those articles, other emoji with meanings that clearly correspond to one article should target that article. Emojis with meanings that correspond to multiple articles should target a list, disambiguation page, set index or other place where readers can follow links to the article(s) relevant to their search. Other emojis should redirect to relevant lists of symbols. Emoji should be redlinks only when we want to encourage the creation of an article about that emoji and/or its meaning. Thryduulf (talk) 12:31, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* So we should create emoji disambiguation pages? Because what existing DAB page covers the potential meanings of 🤪? Edward-Woodrow • talk 19:42, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* I see no reason not to if that is the best option, that's why Stuffed flatbread was created, but 🔴 targetting the pre-existing Red Circle disambiguation page is going to be the more common example. Thryduulf (talk) 20:15, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 8 sounds good to me. Option 7 was tempting but RfDs don't attract enough attention to provide consistent treatment. Certes (talk) 12:46, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 8 is a good summary of the status quo and consensus at recent RfDs. -- Tavix ( talk ) 13:26, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* I'm now in favor of finalizing a list of emoji and retargeting them all there. Draft:List of emojis (faces) looks excellent! -- Tavix ( talk ) 19:51, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
* I support that too, given that it clears up the ambiguities effectively. Edward-Woodrow • talk 19:57, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 8 seems like a good solution here. And in general I'm against deletion of any emojis just as I would be against deletion of letter glyphs being deleted. --Gonnym (talk) 13:43, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* , could you elaborate on your reasoning? It's not self-evident why someone would oppose the deletion of redirects from letters on principle, so it's not clear what to infer from that analogy to the case of emoji. signed,Rosguill talk 13:50, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Are you serious? If the letter A did not have an article, are you seriously saying you think that Wikipedia would be better off without a redirect from the letter to a more general place where that article is dealt with? Other examples would be Ƞ redirecting to a descriptive title such as N with long right leg or א leading to the English language title. Do you believe these should be deleted and users should just have to find the best targets for themselves? These are the same for emojis and in fact, the numerous past RfD have shown that some of the nominations have been the result of the nominator not understanding them, so deleting them would result in even less clarity. Gonnym (talk) 14:05, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* What about letters with accents, which could be resolved as either the letter or as the accent? Or letters for which, for one reason or another, we don't have a suitable target yet? Or letters that are also the names of actual things/places (such as Å, which could refer to 12 different towns in Scandinavia, or Angstroms, or just the letter). Or uncommon digraphs such as fl (which currently points to a less-than-helpful disambiguation page), including letters such as ƣ that have ambiguous codepoints (that symbol currently is used for both Turkic gha and as a Medieval Latin digraph for oi, but those are two letters with distinct histories that should not and in the future may not have the same codepoint). Or letters that are themselves notable enough to meet WP:REDYES criteria? What about logographic characters used in Chinese or Japanese? signed,Rosguill talk 14:27, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* All valid. Gonnym (talk) 18:18, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* I find this perspective to be absolutist to a degree that is in total dissonance with the general approach of our policies and guidelines, and further a startling lack of care with respect to the intricacies and differences between single-character symbols and their possible referents. signed,Rosguill talk 19:58, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 2 makes the most sense. Emoji's frequently have contested meanings - so we should not guess where a redirect should go. --Enos733 (talk) 15:09, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 8 per Thryduulf. Enix150 (talk) 20:20, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* We should be treating these the same way we do foreign-language redirects. Lorry is an English-language word for the same concept as "truck", and so redirects there. (It could have been the other way around.) "Lastkraftwagen", "camion", and "貨物自動車" are how that concept is spelled in German, French, and Japanese; they don't redirect to truck because trucks don't have anything in particular to do with Germany, France, or Japan. They don't have anything to do with iconography, either, so ⛟, 🚚, and 🚛 are just as inappropriate. It's a different matter entirely for an article like smiley, which is specifically about little pictures of happy faces, just as it is for Deutschland, département, and 東京都. —Cryptic 20:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
I've added a partition here, as the options' wording has been adjusted. For the suggested Options 7 and 8 proposed above, Option 8 now more closely aligns with the current Option 2 (minus the redlink clause), whereas Option 7 would be the rejection / opposition of all other options, and to deal with redirects on a case by case basis. Utopes (talk / cont) 16:50, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* The new option 2 does not closely match option 8 as it is missing the important clause about emoji with multiple article matches (e.g. 🔴 → Red Circle (a disambiguation page), 🥙 → Stuffed flatbread (a set index)) as well as the redlink clause. Thryduulf (talk) 18:07, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* . Apologies for the delay, I've been extremely busy this last week and wasn't able to properly return until addressing the RfC situation that has since formed.
* For what it's worth, I said that the new option 2 was more close to the Option 8 as suggested, but not exactly due to the redlink clause. It was more close due to the narrowed range of "only emoji redirects without articles". As for the rest of Option 8's contents, I didn't (and still don't particularly) agree that the "multiple article matches" is important as stated to include within the text of the Option (to otherwise differentiate it from Option 2), because the intent of Options 2&3 was to be the catch-all options for any other article possibilities beyond databases or deletion respectively. Because of this, set index articles and disambiguation pages would fall under this if appropriate, because from my point of view the 4 options presented were wholly encompassing of all possibilities. There were essentially 2 proposed criteria, with 2 fully-encompassing binary solutions to deal with them. While the first binary of "keep (at database) or delete emoji redirects where no other target is appropriate" is present in the form of 1&2 versus 3&4, the second binary would be the one that this interpretation is relevant to: Options 1 and 4 suggested to treat ALL emojis the same regardless, whereas Options 2 and 3 proposed that emojis should be treated differently on a case-by-case basis depending on how the image is depicted. From my point of view, Option 8 has the same intention as that, but keeps going with extra examples that to me seem as if it would still be supported by Option 2's solution. The only difference, however, is the mention of red-linked emojis, which I see to be a different subject matter entirely which falls outside the scope of the 2 x 2 binary options. Set index articles are still articles, so I don't see how that is different from the provided example of 🔥 to the fire article. 🥙 still unambiguously depict a Stuffed flatbread, which happens to be a set index article. To me it seems like yet another valid example.
* I'll concede that this intention behind the Option could have been confusing, however, as only the fire was shown to explain what it might look like. Furthermore, I guess it can be said that "maybe this type of RfC question shouldn't have been designated with options to begin with". In removing options entirely, this could allow for more involved possible solutions. To me though, this broad path did not feel correct or needed, as there are a seemingly small number (2) of crossroads that needed solutions (such as whether or not a gray area exists). Open forums can work well in RfCs, but here it would effectively be picking and choosing different emoji to assign with different solutions... that all still match the same overarching precedent that "there IS no precedent and each should be dealt with on a case by case basis, depending on whether a regular article, set index article, or a disambiguation page seems to be most appropriate from the depiction". These all fall under the same umbrella, and can be summed up without needing to declare which styles of articles that can and can't be targeted, effectively declaring criteria to set index, criteria to disambiguate, criteria to red-link and etc.
* Because of this, I feel like I once again lean back towards the thought that the 4 options were sufficient enough. The second binary option posed by 1&4 vs 2&3, in my eyes, was essentially asking to choose between "There is no gray area (treat all the same, i.e. 1&4)" or "There is a gray area (case by case, i.e. 2&3)". At the risk of duplicating my words, there is no gray area between the two binary conclusions of "there is gray area" or "there isn't". If there's ANY gray area, the latter option (represented by 2&3) would seem to me to be sufficient to capture that, which is what the proposed Option 8 does. The only difference, because of this, would appear to be the redlink clause, which wasn't a part of the two binaries (and also feels to be a different can of worms because emoji's without articles will never be red, as they will appear the same regardless of whether they are an article or not. The cases of emoji with associated articles is easily countable (exactly 8 as of now) so the referred-to cases of emoji that could receive articles but don't have them already feels like it should be a separate topic for "which redirects should be deleted to encourage article creation")
* I do wish in hindsight that I could have painted a better picture with clearer intentions behind the option description, because I did feel when putting this together that the 4 options listed sufficiently covered the two main goals of the RfC. I think that focusing on just the new 4 to begin with would have made things a lot easier to wrap heads around, because shifting the goalpost inward was still a shifting of the goalpost. But even then, it seems to me that from the beginning, Option 8 was still covered within the worlds of combining old Option 2 and old Option 3 (making Option 8 a warranted combo-solution at the time). Post-revision, though, it looked to me as if Option 2 was just it, minus the redlink clause. As for the other alternative suggestion, Option 7 was just in opposition towards using an RfC to come up with a solution, which seems to be a paradox and was only given a number for formality. (It's certainly a valid position to be opposed to using the RfC to prescribe a universal solution, but voting for an Option called "7" through the means of the RfC would still be prescribing a universal solution of "no universal solution"... The text is more closely akin to a "none of the above" pathway. I guess it could be given a number for ease of reference, but it certainly falls squarely outside of the proposed grid of 6 solutions -> 4 revised solutions.)
* It seems that this RfC may be restarted, which is fine and definitely understandable. I was talking with the User King of Hearts in the discussion section, which was the very first message in the RfC which is where the 4-option alternate setup was first proposed. The conversation between us developed throughout the evening, and I implemented the suggestion on the same day the RfC started. Because the context behind the change was completely available, I believed that restructuring the votes based on the immediate RfC feedback would be uncontroversial as the context behind the change was all quickly accessible, and I figured that collapsing the original options and partitioning the original votes would make things clear moving forward. I did not expect the older alternatives solutions to carry over past the partition line, but this was on me for not clearly structuring the vote options to begin with. I do think a vote will eventually happen on this topic in some capacity, but using this space to figure out what to cover in the future emoji-redirect RfC seems like what will happen at this juncture, whether it is more of an open forum, a series of yes/no propositions, or what have you. Utopes (talk / cont) 07:54, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* I've only skimread your comment (tl;dr applies) so apologies if I've missed anything, but the "grid" you keep talking about needing to fit things into seems completely arbitrary? That multiple keep are supporting options not in your first or revised set suggest that the considerations left out are important. As for changing options midway through an RFC, that's rarely not going to result in confusion. Thryduulf (talk) 09:58, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* No worries, I'm going to be heading to bed soon but it was something I had on my mind after seeing the direction things went in regards to the RfC post-option refinement. This could be my misinterpretation as well, but I feel cumulatively we may be saying the same thing in regards to Option 2 vs 8, possibly. Option 2 as above is written "Retarget to pages where the emoji's depiction is deemed unambiguous". The emoji 🔴, to this effect, unambiguously refers to a red circle. Therefore, my view of Option 2 is that it would suggest this emoji be redirected to Red Circle. Such target happens to be a disambiguation page, but it is a page nonetheless, hence why I viewed Option 8 to be redundant on this factor (and in part was why I was concerned things were getting out of hand with the 2 vs 8 😅). If this interpretation of Option 8 is correct and the same as how you described it here, I feel now could be a worthwhile time to workshop and prepare for a potential RfC redo, as the option switch certainly did not make it easier by any means, although I underestimated its negative effect. Utopes (talk / cont) 10:12, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* This is one of those RFCs that I wish had been formatted as a Request for Actual Comments instead of a simplistic Request for Numbered Votes. Here's what I want: If I paste an emoji into the search bar, I want it to take me to some place that tells me what that thing is. It doesn't actually matter if it's perfect. As a general rule, I'm just trying to figure out what that tiny little thing is. I can read without my glasses on, but I can't tell you what 🤾 is even with them on. Please redirect those to some sensible page. If you send them to a list, then please make it really easy to figure out which list item it's being redirected to. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:54, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* For 🤾, I'm guessing a discus thrower, a frisbee player, a dancer, or a track athlete. Edward-Woodrow • talk 19:56, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* It's "person playing handball". The emoji redirects to Handball, so the question is answered correctly. -- Tavix ( talk ) 20:00, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Its Unicode name is simply "HANDBALL", so the question's answered even more correctly. Certes (talk) 21:29, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Without my glasses on, it looks kind of like sparkles. Confetti, maybe? With them on, maybe it's a dancer. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:46, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
* This is exactly the reason why I see redirects from emojis as a Good Thing and it's the principle behind my option 8 of retargetting to the most specific place we have. Thryduulf (talk) 21:05, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* I'm in favor of Option 2 for the reasons described more elegantly than I could above (thanks to Shells-shells and others). But what I want to add to the discussion is that we should be more perscriptivist than descriptivist because the nature of emoji's creation is technical, rather than their use, which can be covered in an article if necessary, like the one described above where the emoji now gets an article such as Face with Tears of Joy emoji. That's where editors should be allowed to use secondary sources to delve into the descriptivist side of things using secondary sources. That's the nuanced that's missed when we allow 👩💻 to redirect to Women in computing but 👨💻 gets Information technology, maybe? That's not what was written when the standard was created. Yes, ❦ leads to Fleuron (typography) because that's what it is. If there isn't a 1:1 match for the description of the character as set by the standard (🔥 to Fire, and 🛑 to Stop sign), or an article about the technical thing it describes such as (⏯️ play/pause button to Media control symbols and 💨 dashing away to ) then it should be redirected to the technical list so people can see the perscribed definition of a technical glyph. 🙀 should not be cat because the nuance can't be captured in a redirect--it's a weary cat, 👩💻 isn't women in computing, it's a women technologist, and 🫸 isn't a hand (not that I'd be able to tell, it doesn't load on this browser) it's a rightwards pushing hand--because I can't see it, that's required nuance that I'd miss if I were redirected to hand. In summary, I think much like the importance of keeping the redirect for simple and uncontroversial emojis is required for an encyclopedia, losing the nuance of a technical glyph via non-specific redirect hurts the purpose of an encyclopedia. For that reason, we need to make sure there's diligence and clear directives not to allow broad redirects, and to save the nuance. And that's accomplished by redirecting to the list with technical descriptions. microbiology Marcus (petri dish) 21:05, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Other I suggest creating a new article titled List of emojis (similar to the List of emoticons article), and suggest all those emojis redirect to that 'List of emojis' article instead. Some1 (talk) 23:02, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Comment (completely confused by the change in available options). I agree with above commenters that someone pasting such a character into Wikipedia search is most likely to be looking for an idea of what it is generally considered to represent, and redirection to that particular symbol if we have an article, or to a list of symbols including it if we do not, is most likely to be useful. I'm not sure why we have a list of emoticons but not a list of emojis that states the usual associated meanings? I also don't think redirecting, say, 🔥 to Fire should necessarily be the norm, even where a 1:1 correspondence can be agreed; after all we often deliberately don't redirect foreign language terms. (And in that particular case, I've seen it used as "you're on fire" or "go you!" or "hot!" kinds of metaphorical meanings, rather than the literal one.) Espresso Addict (talk) 00:04, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support Option 8 seems to be reasonable -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:14, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
* I agree with WhatamIdoing, if I search for an emoji I just want the article that is most helpful. Emojis with articles should redirect to those articles, emojis without articles should redirect to a new list articles explaining the emojis with appropriate links as needed. I don't think emojis should be redirected to articles about the subject they represent. 🤾(Person Playing Handball, as mentioned above) redirects to Handball, but that article makes no mention of the emoji so it's hardly helpful for someone looking for details about the emoji itself. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 21:17, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 1 - specifically this is a vote against redirecting 🥕 to Carrot or 🔥 to Fire. The title for an emoji should have information about the emoji, not the concept it represents. Ideally, there will be a link to the concept (or several related concepts) on the target page. Deleting these outright is asking for a long series of well-intentioned re-creations; some redirect should be maintained for these titles. Walt Yoder (talk) 21:39, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
* Strong oppose Option 4, neutral on others. Frostly (talk) 22:00, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
* May I ask why? Edward-Woodrow • talk 22:37, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
* Emojis greatly aid in navigation, especially for younger generations. Including them as redirects is one more step towards modernizing the site. Frostly (talk) 23:17, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 1 Any other outcome feels nonsensical. Why would we redirect 🔥 to fire?? If I'm googling an emoji, I want to see it in its emoji context, i.e. the list of emojis. I know what a fire is. What I don't know is the background behind the fire emoji. <b style="color:#6a1f7f">CaptainEek</b> <i style="font-size:82%; color:#a479e5">Edits Ho Cap'n!</i>⚓ 00:50, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
* Start again. There are references to options 7 and 8 which don't ever seem to have been defined. You can't move the goalposts halfway through. Stifle (talk) 11:47, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 8 was proposed by Thryduulf. "Emojis with articles should target those articles, other emoji with meanings that clearly correspond to one article should target that article. Emojis with meanings that correspond to multiple articles should target a list, disambiguation page, set index or other place where readers can follow links to the article(s) relevant to their search. Other emojis should redirect to relevant lists of symbols. Emoji should be redlinks only when we want to encourage the creation of an article about that emoji and/or its meaning." Enix150 (talk) 03:21, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
* Redo RFC, per Stifle. The new option numbers overlap with the old option numbers reusing the same numbers for different options. The survey is thus essentially incomprehensible. Sandizer (talk) 12:27, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
* IMO, we should just cancel the RfC and let editors work on the List of emojis article (non-redirect), along with its subpages (Draft:List of emojis (faces), etc.) Some1 (talk) 12:35, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
* 1️⃣ - info about the emoji, not the concept it represents. 👍 Levivich (talk) 14:04, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
* Restart RFC per .<b style="color:#ff6600;">The 🏎 Corvette 🏍 ZR1</b><b style="color:#0a0a0a;">(The Garage)</b> 17:07, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
* Restart per Stifle as they have a good point as well as what Sandizer mentioned Is la 🏳️⚧ 19:55, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
* Do we really need an RfC for this? The point of RfD is to discuss where a redirect should point to. If there is no agreement as to what the title means, it usually results in deletion or disambiguation. Status quo is fine. Awesome Aasim 13:07, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
* Because there is no firm policy on emoji redirects, which makes discussion difficult; it descends into a matter of opinions. A policy, or at least a guideline, addressing what to do with these things, would make discussion much easier (I've noticed that on old log days, emoji discussions are almost always the last to be closed). Edward-Woodrow • talk 19:33, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
* Yes, we do. It helps significantly to establish the pros and cons of emoji redirects before discussing them, as currently there's a lot of talking past one another going on in these RfDs. J947 † edits 23:29, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
* Okay, but this is a pain to follow. Procedural restart, in the section immediately below. I am going to list on WP:RFCL because I am not sure if this makes me involved or not. Note that this is entirely procedural, not reflective of my opinions here. Awesome Aasim 23:19, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
* , the RfC has already been semi-closed (the RfC tag has been removed), so there's no need for formal closure. Edward-Woodrow • talk 23:34, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 1 - although I agree with the above editors that this RfC needs to be restarted, as the options have changed since many editors !voted. I prefer option 1 as no emoji is unambiguous; for example, 🔥 can mean fire, but it can also mean spicy, attractive, popular or trending, urgency, excellent performance, and far more. Effectively, emoji's are a pictograph language where context provides meaning; it is rare that there is a single appropriate target for them. BilledMammal (talk) 03:29, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
* What do you think of emoji redirects to country flag articles like 🇺🇸? They're surely unambiguous, right? ObserveOwl (chit-chat • my doings) 18:59, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* Should 🇺🇸 target U.S. or U.S. Flag? I'd expect the former, but the norm seems to be the latter. Edward-Woodrow • talk 19:43, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* If I used an emoji to search with I'd be looking for information about the emoji. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 21:03, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* I'd usually want to know what on earth the blob with a squiggle that I just copy-pasted is supposed to represent, though there are dedicated sites for that. Certes (talk) 21:27, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 3 If we can give a straightforward answer, let's do it. Otherwise, we're just playing charades. --BDD (talk) 18:31, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* Option 8 per Thryduulf.-- Patar knight - chat/contributions 15:43, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
* Thryduulf's option 8 makes the most sense here; those options are the most likely to send our readers to the information they're looking for when searching an emoji. I'd also be open to keeping some wiktionary redirects, such as 🥺 (which has been discussed at RfD, leading to that result). Elli (talk | contribs) 17:24, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
Discussion (Emoji redirects)
Notifying, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , whom have weighed in on one of the currently ongoing emoji redirect discussions. Utopes (talk / cont) 03:15, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* I'm not sure the options are set up optimally. It should be completely uncontroversial that emojis with articles should target those articles, such as Face with Tears of Joy emoji, no matter which option we choose for the rest. Then we have four options for emojis without articles: a) redirect all to Unicode block (same as your 1 & 2); b) redirect to unambiguous subjects, else default to Unicode block (same as your 3); c) redirect to unambiguous subjects, else delete (same as your 4); d) delete all. -- <b style="color:red">King of ♥</b><b style="color:red"> ♦</b><b style="color:black"> ♣</b><b style="color:black"> ♠</b> 03:21, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* I think you're probably right in the sense that a delete-all option would be a beneficial "nuclear option", so I will go ahead and add that. With that out of the way, in that case, would your suggestion be to remove Option 1 or 2 and shift everything else up? My reasoning for including a difference between #1 and #2 was to have an option that was close to nuclear while allowing some valid exceptions, i.e. "emoji redirects are only valid to articles about emoji". I think this differs from Option 1, which I felt would be the standard nuclear option that is directly opposite of mass-deletion, using the stance that "emojis shouldn't ever be redirects to topic articles, and should only ever target lists of symbols (because emoji are symbols)".
* If you think its too uncontroversial, I'll strike it out, but wanted to make sure I was understanding your thought process first. Utopes (talk / cont) 04:19, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* I think there are way too many options now, which just makes it more confusing. And the problem is that outside of Options 2 and 5, it is unclear what is being proposed for emoji redirects to direct targets. Instead there are two orthogonal questions: 1) If there is an article on an emoji (as the subject of the article), should the emoji redirect to that article? (Note that this question does not ask what to do if the answer is no. I assumed the answer here is obviously yes, but maybe it's not so obvious and it doesn't hurt to ask.) 2) For all emoji redirects that have not been explicitly allowed under the previous question, what should be the criteria for inclusion? (Here we have my four previously proposed options.) -- <b style="color:red">King of ♥</b><b style="color:red"> ♦</b><b style="color:black"> ♣</b><b style="color:black"> ♠</b> 08:31, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* I see what you mean. I think the current option setup made a bit more sense in my head than in practice. I viewed there to be three different "priorities" that emoji redirects could have. They could be treated as "symbols" and symbols only, they could be treated as the image they depict, or they could not be dealt with at all (and deleted). In other words, a "Yes", a "Yes, AND", and a "No". In general, I feel like 6 options is likely the "maximum" number to be able to wrap around (especially if its fundamentally a 3x2), although it also depends on the options themselves. Option 1 and 6 might have been too extreme of choices by ignoring obvious alternatives to mass-deletion/redirection, and unnecessarily add complexity because of it, so I'll take your advice and re-contextualize the solutions. Utopes (talk / cont) 16:28, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Could lists in addition to Miscellaneous Symbols and Pictographs be provided for reference? That list doesn't seem to have any of the emojis that were subject to rfds listed. CMD (talk) 03:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* ✅ Utopes (talk / cont) 04:26, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* fwiw, I don't think I received this ping, not sure anyone else did. signed,Rosguill talk 13:48, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* No, pings only work when they are signed in the same edit. The ping edit was not signed. -- Tavix ( talk ) 14:38, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Huh, I didn't realize that the ping's functionality depended on a signature; I put the ping-list together after setting things up to alert people that it's live. At this rate, I'm not sure whether it would be worth it to re-send the pings though. Utopes (talk / cont) 15:46, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* At this point it can't hurt. Notifying, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Edward-Woodrow • talk 19:57, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* Comment I don't particularly see much encyclopaedic value of using emojis to navigate wikipedia. The best scenario in my mind would be to redirect either to an article on that specific emoji or to a general article on emojis. We should not be using emojis to redirect to articles that don't relate to emojis. Polyamorph (talk) 20:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
* What are people referring to numbered choices that are not on the list, such as "Option 8"? –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 13:31, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
* The higher numbered options were introduced during and are explained there. Certes (talk) 14:17, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
* @LaundryPizza03 the RFC question originally had 6 options. Kusma and I preferred options that were not on that list, and so detailed them as options 7 and 8 respectively. The RFC question was then rewritten with 4 options replacing the original 6, but options 7 and 8 are still not covered. For easier reference I've copied those options below:
* Option 7: do not try to prescribe this centrally, but let RFD do its thing on individual redirects based on individual consensus. Do not mass-create, do not mass-delete.'
* Option 8: Emojis with articles should target those articles, other emoji with meanings that clearly correspond to one article should target that article. Emojis with meanings that correspond to multiple articles should target a list, disambiguation page, set index or other place where readers can follow links to the article(s) relevant to their search. Other emojis should redirect to relevant lists of symbols. Emoji should be redlinks only when we want to encourage the creation of an article about that emoji and/or its meaning.
* Thryduulf (talk) 14:26, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
* Comment I think this has completely spiraled as a result of the numbers changing and I'm not sure what information we can glean from the current state of the RfC. microbiology Marcus (petri dish) 13:45, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support closing the RfC and workshopping a second one here. Edward-Woodrow • talk 19:37, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
I like the idea of a list of emojis, as a middle ground between targeting the literal meaning and targeting the block. That would also give us room to note different meanings (at least those that reliable sources discuss). Here's my vague idea for what an entry would look like:
* 😨 Fearful Face used to x or sometimes y.
Edward-Woodrow • talk 21:30, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
* what do you think of that idea? Edward-Woodrow • talk 21:31, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
* There are 3,664 emojis as of the latest update so if such a list would be created, it would probably be needed to split into a few pages, but in general I'm not opposed to anything that can make the target more clear. Gonnym (talk) 08:37, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
* I agree with Gonnym. It should have a link to the relevant Wikipedia article, so perhaps something like:
* 😨 Fearful Face see Fear.
* The link should be to the article(s)/dab/etc that most closely matches the definition, unless we have reliable sourcing that it is used for some other/additional meaning (otherwise it's WP:OR). Thryduulf (talk) 09:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
* Here is an initial attempt Draft:List of emojis (faces). Gonnym (talk) 10:59, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
* @Gonnym, that looks good to me, though it might be worth adding images as well. I'm seeing boxes for a few of them.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1697917404528:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl talk 19:43, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
* I like this, but is there any reason we can't do this out of the previous emoji block articles (just adjust their format)? Skarmory (talk • contribs) 21:17, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* At this point I think it's probably best to wait until the new version is completed and then propose a merge or redirect. Thryduulf (talk) 21:52, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* Comment This is listed on CENT, so I have come here from there. What the heck is going on with the options? Who hatted a bunch of them and completely re-numbered the rest halfway through an RfC? It is now basically impossible to tell what anyone was talking about in the above comments. Can this be undone? jp×g 05:20, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
* @JPxG the who was Utopes. As for whether this can be undone, I think that would just move the problem to the comments left between the renumbering and the unrenumbering. Especially now we have a third option not listed in the options it's probably better to cancel the RFC bit of this but treat it as pre-discussion for a better prepared RFC. Thryduulf (talk) 10:00, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
* I agree this RfC is damaged beyond repair. Jc3s5h (talk) 20:14, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
* Well, it's de-RfC'd now, so maybe we can discuss the issues raised, instead of ''my, isn't this RfC bad?' Edward-Woodrow • talk 20:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
* Per the above comments, I've removed the RfC tag. The discussion can stand or continue as a pre-RfC discussion, where participants workshop the best possible options for further discussion. The mid-RfC changes to the options have made it untenable. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 20:03, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
* Would blanket redirect of all emojis to a table with anchors to the specific emoji and then the descriptions, with interwiki links not be the best use case then? I've begun workshopping a draft in the draftspace: Draft:List of Emojis microbiology Marcus (petri dish) 15:16, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* I would probably support Option 2-prime Redirect to list of ... meanings. Compare A, X, 7, !, Æ. Some emoji only have one notable, natural meaning; others might have a "literal" meaning and multiple notable figurative meanings; in the latter case, yes there should be a disambiguation page. And if there's a group of closely-related emoji with similar meanings and history, it might be appropriate for each to be a redirect to an anchor-within-a-table within an article about the group. DavidLeeLambert (talk) 21:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* I really like the way Wiktionary (you know, the project where glyphs-as-glyphs are in-scope) handles these. Compare 🥙, 🤾, 🔴. —Cryptic 22:27, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* Two of those currently don't have entries, but, yes, I agree I like wiktionary's approach (they're freer because unlike us, they are a dictionary). An option is to retarget them all to wiktionary (which been done with a few already, I think). Edward-Woodrow • talk 12:01, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
* Part of my point is I like the way Wiktionary handles them even when it doesn't have entries - for one-character-long entries in their main namespace, they transclude wikt:Template:character info on wikt:Mediawiki:Noarticletext. —Cryptic 04:14, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
RFC could use some additional input
This infobox discussion on Georges Feydeau is wrapping up and could use some more input. All feedback is welcome to help find a consensus. Thanks! Nemov (talk) 19:35, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
* Given you already posted on this RFC when it opened, is it the best use of this noticeboard to keep posting reminders to the same process? - SchroCat (talk) 20:07, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
Petition on change.org for English Wikipedia to use curly quotes instead of straight quotes
Would you please consider the change.org petition for Wikipedia to change the Manual of Style to require curly quotes instead of straight quotes in articles? --Agusbou2015 (talk) 18:24, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
* Considered and ❌. Remsense 聊 18:25, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
* How about no? Bon courage (talk) 18:26, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
* I regret that you have refused to act on this petition, but I would like to know the reasons for this refusal. --Agusbou2015 (talk) 18:39, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
* Wikipedia operates according to WP:CONSENSUS, not external pressure. If you have a proposal, make it at WT:MOS. Bon courage (talk) 18:43, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
* @Agusbou2015 Please see Manual of Style. If you have arguments to make, you're welcome to make them here or at the Manual of Style talk page. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 18:43, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
* In case anyone else had difficulty finding it, the petition can be found by searching for "wikipedia curly" on that website (which I can't link as it's blacklisted). It has been running for five years and has attracted 159 signatures and has three comments, all from the proposer. Certes (talk) 20:33, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
Follow-up commentary
We should probably address this sort of thing in a policy or guideline somewhere, probably in WP:NOT. There are lots and lots of petitions on Change.org (and probably at similar sites) about Wikipedia, almost all of them aimed at pushing a particular PoV agenda. So this kind of idea will probably come up again.
In this specific case ("/p/high-ranked-wikipedia-contributers-curly-quotation-marks-in-english-wikipedia" at Change.org – cannot be linked directly because of our URL blacklist), the "petition" has almost no input even for a Wikipedia-related petition (a truly trivial 159 "votes"). But some of them are much larger. These petitions are basically nonsense. Wikipedia pays no attention to them at all, and we should not, because there is no way to connect votes to users-in-good-standing of Wikipedia, nor connect a single vote to a single user even of just Change.org. And the petitions are of course non-neutral in nature unlike our RfCs (valid ones, anyway), and show only support for an idea not opposition to it. E.g., there is one to try to get Wikipedia to treat ayurveda as real medical science instead of pseudoscience ("/p/wikipedia-we-are-against-wikipedia-s-statement-which-says-ayurveda-is-pseudo-scientific" at Change.org). It has 33,600+ "signatures" (probably broadly canvassed through campaigning, since there are millions of petitions on Change.org and one would not find this buried item by accident). But untold numbers of people would disagree with it, and there is no measurment of them.
It's just meaningless noise, and we don't need to entertain it or have to respond to it with anything but something like "Hatted/reverted per WP:NOT#PETITION." — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 11:54, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
* Can't we just cite WP:NOTDEMOCRACY? It would appear to be applicable to these and would save us from having to add more content to that page. BilledMammal (talk) 11:56, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
* I added something there. See what you think? Bon courage (talk) 12:07, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
* WP:NOT#DEMOCRACY is certainly where I would put it, and Bon courage's edit above is just right to me, though someone may revert it for lack of prior discussion, and necessitate a thread about it at WP:NOT. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 12:22, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
* Yeah, I sometimes wish WP:DRNC was part of the WP:PAGs, because ... it's right! Bon courage (talk) 12:28, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
* Also agree with this edit. FOARP (talk) 06:10, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* SMcCandlish, Yeah, seems worth a hatnote to say "if you want to talk about changing Wikipedia, don't do it elsewhere, do it on Wikipedia, as is the point of Wikipedia<span id="Remsense:1698927082518:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Remsense 聊 12:11, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
* Bon courage's tweak linked above probably gets at the issue. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 12:22, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
Automatic talk page banners
Is there a way we can make talk pages automatically display certain banners at the top? For instance, Talk header for basically all pages, American English for articles with a Use American English tag, Talk page of redirect for redirects, and WikiProject Disambiguation for DAB pages. Systematic edits like this one often make me wonder: why are editors needlessly triggering others' watchlists through unnecessary but harmless mass edits, and why are these editors only bothering to add the banners to a few pages when many other pages do not have these templates? If we're going to add these templates to a few pages, might as well do it to all of them and without disruption. InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:06, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
* I believe that automatically including comments and templates in new talk pages is a good idea, but that automatically adding them to existing talk pages is a bad idea. As as compromise, perhaps facilitate adding them during the next edit, if any, subject to confirmation . -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 13:47, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
* We don't need to clutter up talk pages with e.g. American English which isn't really needed on most talk pages. Talk pages already have too many banners usually (which causes banner blindness) Galobtter (talk) 23:07, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
* I agree in principle, and I have never added that template to talk pages myself. But the template exists, and time and again I see editors add it to random talk page. I have no grounds to revert them, since there's no harm per se, but it's an unnecessary edit. Same goes with the other templates I listed — there is no positive or negative from adding them, but people do it anyway, and it just triggers people's watchlists for no reason. I am doubtful that editors will agree to mass-delete those templates, hence this proposal (if it is at all feasible). InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:17, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
* There's an extension in testing, not yet enabled here, that'll let us do this. —Cryptic 23:42, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
Rule that will cover anachronistic informations in the articles
Given that there is a possibility that mention of modern nations in the context of historical figures is an anachronism, as far as I know from my editorial experience this is not acceptable in articles given that time context in which a person lived must be used. I think there should be a rule that will solve this question. This same rule should determine the guidelines in which it must be proven that some information is anachronism. While the second part of the rules would determine what is done in such cases. Considering that without this rule we have uneven articles, I think that this rule is inevitable and necessary. The same rule will apply to all cases of anachronism in articles. I think that debating some things for 20 years does not make sense, it is better to adopt a new rule that will make the work of editors easier.
* I am asking interested editors are you in favor of adopting a new rule which will concern the problem of anachronism in the articles? If necessary, I will write a new rule myself and put it up for discussion.
Mikola22 (talk) 08:20, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
* I might be sleepy, but I don't understand what exactly is being proposed here. We shouldn't have anachronisms in articles? We have to provide a source when removing anachronisms? We should have anachronisms when they help the general reader understand a topic in a specific historical context that is not well understood by non-specialists? Folly Mox (talk) 11:08, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
* Wikipedians argue indefinitely about a lot of things, it's kind of our thing. I don't think we can come up with a blanket rule on how to deal with anachronisms. For example, the vast majority of articles on archaeological sites describe them as being located in a modern country, which is technically anachronistic, but it wouldn't be very helpful for readers to learn that Nibru was a city in Kengir. It needs to be decided with on a case by case basis, following the lead of reliable sources. – Joe (talk) 12:21, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
* There is no rule on Wikipedia regarding information which are out of time context. Let's say a certain historian from Rome and the Roman Empire is presented as an Italian in the article. And now for 20 years there has been a debate whether he was Italian or Roman. I think that in such case it would be good to have a rule or guideline that we can refer to, so that the article contains information in accordance with the sources and time context. Furthermore, we now have a situation where the time context is respected in some articles and not in others. The situation is anarchic in this regard. If something else needs to be clarified, feel free to ask. @Joe Roe In any case, everything depends on the sources, if 5 RS says that a person from the first century is Roman and 5 RS says that he is Italian, we won't going to debate for 20 years about who he was? If something is an anachronism and this is determined by the opinion of editor majority, then we cannot keep this information in the article. For now, such informations are legitimate because there is no guideline that would regulate this situation. Mikola22 (talk) 12:58, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
* Even if there was agreement on whether any particular item is an anachronism, it would be extremely difficult to write guideline or policy that encompasses all topics in a way that captured the many possible nuances out there. Suggesting that an editor majority overrules reliable sources is even more unlikely to be a solid basis for policy. Nationality is a particularly tricky topic, MOS:NATIONALITY has some existing guidelines. CMD (talk) 13:57, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
* Regarding 'editor majority overrules', I meant in the sense that guideline or policy which concerns anachronism exist. If that guideline or policy defines anachronism as forbidden, it would be sufficient that some RFC establish that some information is anachronism, and such information would gain legitimacy for removing from the article. Mikola22 (talk) 18:13, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
* I think I understand the proposition now, but I'm not sure I would support it. For one thing, it shouldn't take an RFC to determine if something is anachronistic. A reliable source should suffice, although I accept there may be edge cases where published experts disagree. The other thing is that anachronism can be helpful to anchor understanding in a familiar context, as Joe Roe mentions, and as is also common in my topic area, early China, where toponyms are almost universally located with respect to present-day geography, names are written in modern Chinese characters, etc.Whether a particular instance of anachronism is helpful enough or necessary enough to be present in an article, and whether it needs to be called out as anachronistic and where: these are questions that RfCs can answer, but usually only after normal editing and normal discussion, I feel. Folly Mox (talk) 20:19, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
* I always look at the RFC in which the arguments must be consistent with the sources. And in that sense anachronism would be determined on the basis of sources in which would be written that some information is not in accordance with the time context. I know from Christopher Columbus sources where one RS states that Christopher Columbus is not Italian because Italy did not exist at that time. But in the article he is presented as Italian although there are many sources which talk about him as a Genovese. So this information are not enough by itself to remove anachronistic name Italian from the article. But if there was a rule which determines this question, the Italian fact would be replaced tomorrow. It wouldn't even need RFC in a wider sense. This rule can also regulate question of old toponyms etc in a manner that is acceptable for today's time. Some information can also be excluded, etc. Mikola22 (talk) 03:52, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* Huh? What source states he was not Italian? Walrasiad (talk) 06:17, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* Christopher Columbus by Ernle Bradford, first page Mikola22 (talk) 06:23, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* It doesn't say Columbus was not Italian. It uses some rather careless wording to emphasize that individual loyalties may be parochial. But Italy existed. Indeed, Genoa was a fief of the Kingdom of Italy. Walrasiad (talk) 06:36, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* He uses wording in the context of anachronism. However, this is not the issue we are dealing with here, so it is not really important. Mikola22 (talk) 07:31, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* It illustrates that editors have different interpretations of sources, and what is or is not anachronistic, and how different terms are used in different contexts. That's what talk page discussions are for. Walrasiad (talk) 14:46, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* That's a 50-year-old book. Levivich (talk) 20:36, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* As I pointed out in Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography, one issue is that a false apparent consensus among sources can occur. Italy is a good one to look at. A hypothetical book like Most Significant Italian Inventions or Great Italian Women in History might refer to people as "Italian" because they are mentioned only in passing, even if a book about them specifically or that mentioned them in detail would describe the people as "Tuscan" or "Venetian" or "Genoese" or "Roman" or etc. I think we should roughly follow the majority of sources, but not in any given case where someone presents 20 sources for "Italian" and 10 sources for "Tuscan". If the person was born and grew up in the Duchy of Tuscany or the March of Tuscany we should prefer such a label even if most of the sources selected in any given survey use a more generic term if it is because they have a more generic treatment. To me it is more of a WP:SKYBLUE observation in that case. WP:VERIFIABILITY demands that a fact stated be verifiable, but not how we interpret generic vs. specific sources. This is all hypothetical here but we can get into individual examples if that helps. My two cents. —DIYeditor (talk) 11:16, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
* For your example, that's not really an issue unless you do some serious accidental WP:SYNTH, whereby 1) you think those sources not about the history of Italy are trying to say something about the history of Italy, and 2) you don't have robust sources about said history where they belong, to which you can point to about the geopolitical situation. Remsense 聊 20:31, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
* No need for a “rule”… we already have procedures for disputes like this - as with any content concern, raise the anachronism on the article talk page, discuss, examine what the sources say, try to reach consensus. If that proves difficult, call in non-involved editors and if necessary hold an RFC. Blueboar (talk) 20:28, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
* Maybe I should have replied about a week ago, before other editors mostly agreed with what I was thinking of writing. In my opinion, this page is the wrong forum for what seems to be a partially baked idea, which should be discussed and possibly clarified in the Idea Lab. The OP isn't specifying what they want to do about "anachronism", and so I don't consider this to be a "proposal". Robert McClenon (talk) 02:45, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
* The other problem with this partially baked idea is that some editors disagree strongly with the cases that appear to be the main concerns of the OP, which are persons born on the Italian peninsula between 476 AD and 1860 AD. The Italian peninsula was a known geographic region during and after the Roman Empire, so Marco Polo and Christopher Columbus were Italian, as well as being Venetian and Genoese, respectively.
* We can either leave this idea alone to be ignored, or start a discussion at the Idea Lab. The former option is fine with me. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:45, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
To create an Editor Communication Feedback noticeboard
Communication is crucial in society in general and Wikipedia in particular as an essential part of the editing and consensus process. As such I was thinking it would be a good idea to have an Editor Communication Feedback noticeboard. Therefore, I propose creating it to promote good communication between editors. Currently there is no place to discuss communication between editors, except as a disciplinary issue. I am aware there used to be a Requests for comment/User conduct project but my proposal is diametrically different and addresses the main points of contention of that former venue.
From the discussion to discontinue said RfC/Uc,
The noticeboard would be for constructive and positive feedback, neither as an instrument to impose sanctions, nor to further disputes, nor to condemn. Thinker78 (talk) 19:48, 22 October 2023 (UTC) Edited 22:03, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* 1) The purpose of the noticeboard would be to promote (not enforce) good communication between editors.
* 2) The objective of the discussions would be to provide neutral feedback to editors on how to improve communication, what could have been done better in the thread being analyzed, what could have been avoided, what strategies could be used in the future.
* 3) The noticeboard should not be used for negative actions against editors such as evidence in disciplinary proceedings.
* 4) Some rules,
* 5) Provide respectful and constructive feedback, avoiding attacks or condemnation.
* 6) Limit participation in the analysis discussions to extended confirmed editors.
* 7) Barring from the discussion analysis participation of editors involved in the dispute wouldn't participate in the discussion . Any doubts about the motives or objectives of their communications would have to be figured out by those participating in the discussion because after all if they can't figure it out, that signals there was a communication roadblock.
* 8) Barring from the discussion analysis editors who have had disputes or edit warring with the editors whose thread is being analyzed would be restricted from participating in the discussion.
* 9) Restricting editors who may act as proxies of editors who have had disputes with the editors whose thread is being analyzed advising them not to participate in the discussion.
* 10) Participating editors should avoid taking any given disputing editor side.
* Pinging, main participants of the former RfC about the User Conduct forum. Thinker78 (talk) 19:51, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* Rules 4.3, 4.4, and 4.5 do not parse.
* If rule 4.5 is interpreted as forbidding proxying for another editor, it may do more harm than good, if it allows editor C to claim that editor B is proxying for editor A.
* More generally, if rules 4.3, 4.4, and 4.5 all exclude editors, the result may be that there may be as much quarreling over whether editors are excluded as discussion of the original topic. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:50, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* Rule 4.3 has littler room for misinterpretation or different interpretation. Rule 4.4 could be instead barring in the discussion editors who have had edit summary or talk page interactions with the editors in dispute, so as to reduce the risk of disputes in the interpretation. Rule 4.5 would advise proxy editors from intervening but that would be a honors system because difficult to establish who may want to proxy. Then as long as rules 1 and 6 are respected, there would be less risk of an issue even if they are secretly proxying for the interests of other editors.
* Although of course, no system is perfect. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 22:14, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* It is true that there seems to be only one interpretation of what 4.3 is trying to say. It still doesn't parse. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:44, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* A key challenge with the former requests for comments on user conduct process was that there was no incentive for the user in question to read any of it. I'm not clear how your proposal addresses this. With your proposed rule 3, the incentive is also reduced for participation by anyone if it means that either poor behaviour on the proposed noticeboard cannot be discussed in other venues, or if specific poor behaviour discussed on the proposed noticeboard cannot be discussed in other venues. isaacl (talk) 23:39, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* "there was no incentive for the user in question to read any of it". The WP:Dispute resolution noticeboard also has the same issue. In fact, it states, "You are not required to participate". The proposal is to promote good communication. Certainly not everyone would want to read the analysis but certainly many others may. It would be one more tool for those editors in the dispute resolution process and also those interested in improving or seek feedback in their communication.
* "poor behavior on the proposed noticeboard cannot be discussed in other venues". Rule 3 doesn't state this, it is about the threads themselves of the noticeboard not being used in disciplinary proceedings. The behavior of course can be discussed wherever.
* Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 00:29, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* Without addressing how to provide incentives for the user to engage, I do not feel you have addressed a main point of contention with the RfC/U process.
* If someone lays out poor behaviour X, Y, and Z in a thread on the proposed noticeboard, then someone later raises these behaviours at the incidents' noticeboard, the subject can claim via rule 3 that since the behaviour was already discussed, no sanctions should be given. This is a disincentive for others to use the noticeboard, which will reduce its effectiveness. isaacl (talk) 04:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* "Poor behaviour" would be addressed by newly minted rule 7: Include about the issue a brief, neutral statement or question. Therefore, poor behavior wouldn't be accepted as a neutral statement or question about the issue.
* Should rule 3 be discarded? Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 04:38, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* Discussing what could have been done better in the thread being analyzed, what could have been avoided will result in discussing undesirable behaviour. isaacl (talk) 18:34, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* That's one of the objectives, with the aim to improve communication between editors. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 22:18, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* Exactly; thus your proposed rule 7 is a non-sequitur to the concern I raised. isaacl (talk) 22:49, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* No because although the editors in the noticeboard would discuss communication issues that may include undesirable behavior, it doesn't mean that they should state it is undesirable behavior or that editors should refer to the case as undesirable behavior. Check also rules 2 and 4.1. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 22:57, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* Yes, I quoted rule 2. Discussing what could have been done better in the thread being analyzed, what could have been avoided is equivalent to discussing behaviour that is undesirable, as it should have been avoided and could be improved. A basic tenet of providing effective feedback is to identify the concern. isaacl (talk) 23:10, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* Yes but it is not necessary to state that it is undesirable behavior. It should be stated in neutral or positive terms for constructive criticism what could have been done better or how it could be better. After all, behavior that is undesirable for some is desirable for others. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 02:23, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
* Proposed rule 3 doesn't rely on whether or not something is called undesirable behaviour; it bars use of any of the discussion no matter how it's worded. That's why proposed rule 7 isn't relevant to my concern.
* Regarding constructive criticism: saying a behaviour should be avoided is equivalent to saying (in the speaker's view) that it is undesirable. Clearly describing problematic behaviour can still be constructive, with the commenter providing clear reasoning, and ideally based on common agreed-upon principles. isaacl (talk) 04:01, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
* Should rule 3 be discarded? Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 04:34, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
* One of the problems with RFC/U was that it was "a process laden with bureaucratic nonsense" (as one commenter put it in the linked RfC). This too seems to have a lot of WP:BURO which will invite wikilawyering and need clerking/policing. I'm also confused what its purpose is meant to be: a friendly space for a chat? or somewhere to bring a specific ongoing "dispute" or "issue" as referred to later in the rules? Bon courage (talk) 05:19, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* I have noticed that oftentimes in talk pages there are storms of disputes where communication could be better. I think this noticeboard could help sort out such situations without resorting to ANI or the Committee and help provide feedback to editors seeking to improve their communication skills with fellow editors. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 18:46, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* Also, the idea is to have a forum that is a mix or could mirror somewhat RFC, Third Opinion, and the dispute resolution noticeboard or other noticeboards, but for analysis of cases of communication between editors. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 18:59, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* Sounds fanciful. Anyway to enforce your rules you'd need clerks to do things like making sure 'barred' editors were barred, and so on, and you'd need completely uninvolved editors willing to comment. God only know what sort of people would be attracted to that task! Perhaps you could point at two or three of these 'storms of disputes' where you think this proposal would help? Bon courage (talk) 19:08, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* I think any experienced editor who has participated in discussions knows by personal experience about what can happen in discussions and how they can become very stormy. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 20:10, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* But I don't know what you mean by 'stormy' exactly. If editors are telling each other to fuck off, that's one thing; but do you include robust exchanges? Many editors mis-construe robust argumentation about propositions as being personal. What do you mean by stormy? Where is the line crossed? Examples please! Bon courage (talk) 06:33, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* Editors would be free to submit threads in which they were involved for review even if there was no dispute but the editor simply wants feedback about hisher communication. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 21:14, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* Above you wrote "this noticeboard could help sort out such situations". What "situations"? Is this a problem that actually exists? Can you point to some (hell, even one) and sketch a "before and after" where this noticeboard does the sorting out you mention? Bon courage (talk) 01:50, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* "storms of disputes where communication could be better." Thinker78 (talk) 03:04, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* Okay, the question is being evaded. Can somebody close this waste of time? Bon courage (talk) 03:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* There is your example. Also, it illustrates the point of rule 4.4 "Barring from the discussion editors who have had disputes or edit warring with the editors whose thread is being analyzed". We had a dispute some time ago. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 04:16, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
* I can't picture how this would work in practice. If parties are snarking at each other, and someone steps in to criticise their communication skills, is that really going to mollify them? I have a feeling it would just open up a new frontier in the dispute, probably moving the discussion even further away from content. Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 20:58, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* That would ring true about any other noticeboard though. Besides, the Feedback noticeboard would analyze a discussion only if editor (s) involved in the discussion brings the case (although they would not participate in the discussion). Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 22:14, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
* I'm not sure what benefit there is to a forum where people who were not involved in a contentious discussion then discuss that discussion; a person with poor communication skills is not going to improve by being scolded on the internet. I think a better solution is to have some sort of peer mediator program, but even that isn't a replacement for touching grass or going to a therapist instead of getting heated and nasty over an edit dispute. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:33, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* The noticeboard wouldn't be for "scolding", but to provide impartial analysis using positive feedback. Or at least that's the idea. Although I recognize some people get nasty because of their particular life issues, in other situations editors may be nasty in a discussion but later snap out of it and sincerely want to check what went wrong. Also, there are other situations where editors might simply seek feedback even if there was no particular nastiness. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 00:49, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* I suspect we have too many user-behavior noticeboards. AN, ANI, and WP:XRV come to mind. It may make sense to move in the direction of consolidating them towards ANI, rather than creating new ones. – Novem Linguae (talk) 01:57, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* I think AN and ANI are more suitable for complaints than for general feedback. Also, they dissuade participation with boomerangs. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 05:55, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
Determining the future of B-class checklists
There is an ongoing discussion about the future of B-class checklists and the possibility of dropping them. Please comment there if you have any input — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:25, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
3D models in infoboxes
Hi, folks. Any thoughts on adding 3D models to infoboxes where available, such as Statue of Liberty, The Thinker, and so on? I feel that this would be a good action, as most typically plain images are used as the main image in infoboxes, but models can also contribute greatly to one's understanding of such a subject as a specific building, sculpture, or otherwise three-dimensional object. However, it has been argued by User:Randy Kryn (who I must apologise to for mentioning a second time now) that this is intrudes upon the rest of the page, particularly on articles with large infoboxes. I can also see the reasoning for this, and I do agree that readability is a matter of utmost importance.
Given the number of articles across various topics which would involve such a thing, but the fact that this isn't quite at a RfC level nor a WP:DR type of dispute, I originally placed this at the Teahouse, before being recommended to move it here in order to get further input from editors. Thanks in advance for your inputs!
Mupper-san (talk) 05:46, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
* Assuming you mean this 3D model for the Statue of Liberty, then I would be strongly opposed to using it as the main image in the infobox, since it is a model, not a real representation of what one sees when looking at the statue, which a good photograph will convey. There may be a case for inclusion elsewhere in the article but that's a topic to be decided by consensus on the article's Talk Page. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:37, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
* I echo Mike Turnbull's thoughts. Most of the time an image is going to be a better choice than a 3D model in an infobox. Thanks! Nemov (talk) 12:03, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
* If one wanted to put those in an infobox, I think it'd be better to create a parameter that just generates a link to it (e.g. producing "3D Model  "). Even then, though, it might be better just to display it in a gallery later on in an article, since that way readers won't have to navigate to a completely separate page to see it. 2600:1012:B16F:B937:ADEF:7254:405D:8DF2 (talk) 19:43, 1 November 2023 (UTC) (Send talk messages here instead)
* Oh, that's really cool, Mupper-san. If you click on the "3D" button, you can spin it around to see it at different angles.
* I think this should be included, but I'm happy to have it in the gallery at the end, rather than in the infobox at the top. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:49, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
* I don't in principle oppose adding 3-D models to infoboxes (that might actually be very helpful for things like proteins), but I think it should be case-by-case and decided on an article's talk page. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 03:45, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
* At the Statue of Liberty page, which has an already large infobox, the 3-D addition did not benefit the page. There, and probably almost everywhere else, the 3-D presentation may or may not be a good addition to the body of the article or in a gallery, but changing infobox protocol to allow inclusion of these images to any infobox seems unneeded and too open-ended. Randy Kryn (talk) 05:11, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
* Any inclusion of 3D images in infoboxes should be a replacement to the 2D images (or hidden with a switcher as seems to be spreading), not in addition. The longer an infobox gets the more it disrupts formatting elsewhere in the article on desktops, and the longer mobile viewers have to scroll to get to most of the lead. CMD (talk) 05:52, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
Bot to empty out Category:Talk pages with comments before the first section?
(relatively) Recently, a category, autopopulated by MediaWiki, has been created that lists talk pages with comments before the first section. I propose a bot which, using AWB's WP:GENFIXES, will add a header above the comment(s). There are, however, three potential issues with this, those being intentional header exclusions, vandalism which should be removed, and multiple unheadered comments. For the first one, the bot will be exclusion compliant, the second one is an "oh well" which would be no different with or without this, and the third one is another "oh well" where a partial fix is better than no fix. The bot will run one-time until the category is empty, after which it will run occasionally to keep it empty. Note that already does this when doing unrelated talk page issues. Thank you. — Clyde [trout needed] 05:51, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
* I am going to actively disagree; error reports are actually one of the best ways of catching certain types of vandalism from users (e.g. Special:Diff/1183662455 which was caught by CheckWiki's "Heading should end with "="" filter), which corresponds to issues #2 and #3 that you listed. So instead of being automatically incorporated into an article, errors like those (like talk page comments preceding other sections) should be logged, but otherwise left alone so another editor can visit them and figure out whether to incorporate, revert, or do something else to the offending edit--a decision no bot can intelligently make. 2603:8001:4542:28FB:498F:967B:D9D7:D85B (talk) 17:03, 7 November 2023 (UTC) (Please send talk messages here instead)
* It's seems the majority of these are were the first comment doesn't have any section header. Maybe a one time bot run could clear up all comments not made in the last 18 months or so. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 19:54, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
* I once spent awhile doing some gnoming on vital article banners that led to finding and fixing a number of instances of different types of vandalism that had been helpfully 'fixed' by a bot. From memory, examples included random deletions that deleted parts of banners and parts of text below, which if it removed headers created the of comments before the first section. The bot action here adding a header will not only make it harder to catch and fix those, but also might lead to the archiving of the remaining text sequesting the vandalism into the archives. While I expect most instances are simply old unheaded comments, I don't see the category as a problem requiring an active bot fix. CMD (talk) 01:54, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
* On the third potential issue mentioned, I just had a look at Talk:4×4=12 (oldid:). This was three completely unrelated comments in reverse chronological order, and adding a header might to more to hide that then to solve it. CMD (talk) 06:37, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
(redundant) Find general sources template
Boud (talk) 12:52, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
* Please withdraw this RfC, the one above just started Mach61 (talk) 12:55, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
* Sorry, I missed that. ✅ Boud (talk) 12:57, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
RfC: Increasing the maximum size for uploaded files
Should the maximum size for uploaded files be increased from the previous technical limit of 4GB to the current technical limit of 5GB? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:24, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Background (increasing the maximum size for uploaded files)
This would be achieved by requesting a configuration change to increase $wgMaxUploadSize for English Wikipedia. Previously this couldn't be set any higher than the current 4GB (the file size used to be stored as a 32 bit unsigned integer), but that technical limit was recently lifted: T191805. The new technical limit of 5GB is a limit of OpenStack.
There is no actual downside to doing this.
Use cases on English Wikipedia are somewhat limited (Commons has more use cases, but they'll need to run their own RfC) but over the coming years various feature films will become PD-USonly and those can't be uploaded to Commons. Uploading them with the best available quality may require more than 4GB in some cases. While it's only a minor improvement, 5GB is 1GB better than 4GB.
Survey (increasing the maximum size for uploaded files)
* Support as proposer. No downside, could be useful in some cases. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:24, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Discussion (increasing the maximum size for uploaded files)
* Is there a way to see some examples of where large files like this are used on Wikipedia? I must admit I would have imagined the existing limit to be set much lower. Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 21:57, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
* Barnards.tar.gz, I think that would be . Over the years there have been various unrelated issues that limited the maximum file size and various files have been moved to Commons so it would seem the largest file is currently just shy of 300MB: File:Nosferatu (English version).webm. That is a PD-USonly feature film though. It happens to be a standard definition capture, but analog film has no fixed resolution. For example, here's a 1080p version of Faust (1926 film): https://archive.org/details/faust-1926-1080p. There's a higher bitrate version out there, but this one is already 1.7GB. It would probably end up being bigger here as it's most probably using the HEVC codec. (I can tell you in about half an hour once my download finishes..) MediaWiki streams/transcodes files with a less efficient codec (VP9) for compatibility and patent reasons, so expect that movie to be bigger if/when uploaded here.<br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"/>Edit: here's Die Nibelungen, only 40GB: https://archive.org/details/silent-die-nibelungen-siegfried. That would have to be transcoded anyway, but a 5GB transcode will be better than a 4GB transcode.<span id="Alexis_Jazz:1699571428537:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:10, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
* This does make me wonder whether Wikipedia is the right place to host these kind of files and whether we should be enabling/encouraging it by having the maximum upload size set as high as 4GB. Archive.org, Wikisource, and Wikimedia Commons all seem like better options. If File:Nosferatu (English version).webm is PD-USonly, does that mean it's non-free, and if so, how does hosting the full movie comply with items 2 and 3 of the non-free content policy? Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 09:27, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
* PD-USonly is free content for the purposes of Wikipedia policy. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:54, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Does Commons allow the upload of files this large? Because if so, we can simply send people there for most files (I can't imagine how a 4GB non-free file could meet the "minimal use" provision of the non-free policy). Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:55, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
* While we are happy people are excited about the possibility of larger media files, I would suggest you pause any discussion yet on that. This option is NOT available for English Wikipedia yet- what you saw is that it will be available for MediaWiki software on next release (that is the software changelog), but it is not yet ready for Wikimedia sites, and it will take some time to be ready (as you can imagine, preparing the storage at our scale for such a change takes time, and we have yet to discuss the implications of it among infrastructure maintainers. It will be announced properly when it is ready. Technical details at: phabricator:T191804 --JCrespo (WMF) (talk) 09:56, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Shorten most clean up messages to two sentences
This proposal might be a bit radical, however, I do think this is necessary for reasons to be explained. In my opinion, current clean up templates are longer than it should be and is an example of instruction creep. Most templates in Template index/Cleanup should be simplified to two sentences (within the realm of the proposal's spirit):
* 1) stating the problem, and
* 2) saying "Please improve this article if you can" and link to other policy/guideline/how-to pages/resources (including the removal notice).
This is because the content after the first sentence are either a truism for Wikipedia in 2023 like:
* Please add secondary reliable sources
* Unsourced material may be challenged and removed
* This article needs to comply with the Wikipedia quality standards
or just a redundant rephrase of the first sentence:
* : This section contains information of unclear or questionable importance or relevance to the article's subject. Please help improve this section by clarifying or removing indiscriminate details. (it is obvious already from the first sentence that these information should be removed or fixed)
* : This article provides insufficient context for those unfamiliar with the subject. Please help improve the article by providing more context for the reader. (If there is insufficient context, the obvious step is to add context to the reader)
* : This article contains content that is written like an advertisement. Please help improve it by removing promotional content and inappropriate external links, and by adding encyclopedic content written from a neutral point of view. (First point is obvious, second point is somewhat obvious which can be answered by a link to External_links, third point is obvious)
* see more at Template index/Cleanup.
Making the clean up template shorter will make the template less BITEy to newcomers and easier to gloss over by editors, which in turn will increase the likelihood that the issue mentioned in the template itself will be fixed. The template should not be a place to exhaustively list possible actions to deal with the issue, because we can add link to other resources that would talk about the problem in much more nuance than any template tag can do.
However, I think it might be controversial to remove the "Please improve this article if you can" phrase. This is because even now many readers have no idea that you can edit Wikipedia and they can help fixing the problem itself (but see below for a counterpoint).
There is precedence that shorter clean up messages does not reduce the context of the cleanup problem: CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 15:12, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* In 2010, cleanup templates have look more or less like our current templates, but the messages usually has only two sentences. To my knowledge, nobody has complained about it back then.
* and small or section-sized templates has trimmed down the cleanup messages to just plainly stating the problem in one sentence, yet nobody has given any complaint about this.
* Inline cleanup template only has a few word and a link to the issue. Again, the community has decided that this is enough context to explain the problem at hand without needing to list solutions to solve the problem or saying "Please improve this article if you can".
* I think it might be controversial to remove the "Please improve this article if you can" phrase. This is because even now many readers have no idea that you can edit Wikipedia and they can help fixing the problem itself (but see below for a counterpoint). What did you intend as the counterpoint? That Template:Multiple issues hides each template's call to action in favor of its own call? Or that inline templates are just a word or two but link to a page that hopefully has a call to action? Anomie⚔ 16:36, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* Multiple issues. Sorry if I haven't clarify it in the proposal. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 04:11, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
* Some of these cleanup templates are overly-long and repetitive. Please help improve these templates by removing any overly-long or repetitive content. Levivich (talk) 20:41, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* Yeah, strongly support. The simpler the better. DFlhb (talk) 08:26, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
* Hmm, if the proposal is so obvious, should I just... do it? CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 15:36, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
* <ul><li>I think I with this, not necessarily because passers-by wouldn't you can edit Wikipedia, but because the fairly frequent, dispersed reiteration of such is important to demonstrating the culture. If I can project back, I think seeing the relatively common beckonings for contribution made it much more likely that I would eventually end up contributing.</li><li>I don't think additional terseness makes articles less BITEy, quite the contrary, actually.</ul></li><span id="Remsense:1698607715159:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Remsense 聊 19:28, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
* I'm largely in favor of removing these in general unless there are specific, actionable, things that need doing. The notability tags are worthless the vast majority of the time--there just aren't sources that anyone has been able to find. It's a badge of shame, not for actual improvement. The needs more citation tags are in theory useful, but somehow are mostly in articles that have a dozen plus citations rather than those with zero. On the whole, I'd prefer to remove the banners. If they do have a useful part, it's telling people *they* can fix it. I'd rather not remove that. Also, see my user page for my thoughts on the issue... Hobit (talk) 15:39, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
* Huh, what on earth? It's not a 'badge of shame' to point out when things stated in an article require verification. It's a cherished part of the process (for me), not a shameful state to be in. Everything on the wiki is constantly changing. Remsense 聊 16:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oh a "citation needed" is fine. A "This may not meet notability requirements" isn't helpful in any way IMO. YMMV. Hobit (talk) 22:34, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
* I think it is, when one considers that the message isn't just for the person who initially wrote the article.<span id="Remsense:1698705335063:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Remsense 聊 22:35, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
* I find "This may not meet notability requirements" helpful often. I place it myself when it's a subject I know little about and am not interested in spending the time assessing, hoping a future editor who arrives there with some combination of knowledge and interest will address it. I often fix such tags when it's an article I do have knowledge of and/or am interested in improving, and I occasionally arrive at such an article about a topic I'm quite suspicious is not notable, do a BEFORE, and AfD. Valereee (talk) 12:01, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
* As a note, I just encountered a group of non-Wikipedia people who discounted an article as having useful information because it had a tag on the top of it. Yes, they are ignorant, but yes, we are encouraging that behavior by placing such tags in such a prominent location. Hobit (talk) 15:50, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
* @CactiStaccingCrane, it's interesting that you picked 2010 as your baseline, because there was some WMF-supported work on making messages clearer, shorter, and more friendly right around that time. I agree with you that a sentence basically repeating the same content isn't a good idea, but if we are still hoping that these messages convert readers into editors, I think it's helpful to have a Call to action (marketing). Perhaps just stop as "Please improve this article", or change it to "You can edit this page, even if you don't have a free account"?
* I have long been doubtful about the utility of most messages, and I find some irritating. (Do we really think that readers are so stupid that they can't see that a two-sentence stub has no/very few little blue clicky numbers?) Their value is unproven, and when we hid them on the mobile site for years and years and years, there was no reason to believe that anyone missed them, especially for the more boring "Bringing this article up to my personal standards is somebody else's problem" maintenance templates. I have wondered occasionally what would happen if we ran an A/B test in which half of the instances for templates like more footnotes were hidden (e.g., via CSS based on the month/year stated in the template) for a year. Would the articles get fewer edits? Would they get more, e.g., because an editor thought it was really important to have the tags showing? WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
* Yes, it's obvious that that such banner tags don't work and so should be removed as dysfunctional clutter. The latest grotesque example I saw was at Bertrand Russell. The tag was ref-cleanup and read This article has a huge bibliography and over 200 citations so it's not surprising that there's some inconsistency in such a mass of detail. But, of course, there's no detailed discussion to explain exactly what's required. As it has been a GA and FA candidate, such vague nagging should be left to the next round of promotion rather than distracting the thousands of daily readers.
* Note that every page has much more important reminders for our readers such as the copyright licence, the general disclaimers and the toggle for desktop/mobile view. Those all go at the foot of the page which is quite inconvenient as I often want to use the toggle. It's absurd that a minor cleanup matter should get more prominence.
* Andrew🐉(talk) 15:53, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
* It's unfair to cherrypick examples, that's survivorship bias at best. Plenty of editors specifically use banners and other maintenance tags as a roadmap to go through articles and fix specific types of issues. I agree that it's better form to be more specific to aid a potential remedy, but in a ton of cases, a nonspecific tag is better than no tag, while there is certainly a class where this is not so. Remsense 聊 16:01, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
* It might be better if such banner tags expired automatically so that the ones which are not effective then disappear rather than remaining for years to mystify every reader. The orphan tag does something like this now after there were numerous complaints about it. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:23, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
* I would support that for some category of maintenance tags, certainly. Remsense 聊 16:41, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
* The problem is not so much the tag as the huge banner. I usually put some standard tags at the start of each article such as short description, use British English, coord. These are either silent or display in a more restrained way.
* As cleanup tags are usually only actioned by specialist gnomes, the giant banners are not helpful. All that projects like WP:GOCE need are the cleanup categories. Banners should not be displayed unless they are actually useful to readers.
* Andrew🐉(talk) 12:43, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
* I would also support there being some flexibility based on scope/action-ability of the problem and who is likely to solve it. Remsense 聊 12:44, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
* Many banners could be transformed into topicons DFlhb (talk) 16:28, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
* @Remsense, you said Plenty of editors specifically use banners and other maintenance tags as a roadmap, and I ask: Are they, really? Specifically, are they using the visible message at the top of the page, or are they doing what I do, which is using the category the banner adds? I clean up tagged articles; however, I do not clean up tagged articles by loading a bunch of pages and seeing what banners are at the top. I use category-based tools such as https://bambots.brucemyers.com/cwb/bycat/Medicine2.html#Cites%20no%20sources
* We could have those cats even if we took away the huge banners. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:26, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
* WhatamIdoing, I think it's possible the footprint of many banners could be reduced, but on articles I feel like I can help with, I think the presence of banners genuinely does help direct my work, in tandem with the navigation-by-categories mode I mentioned above.<span id="Remsense:1699897092403:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> Remsense 聊 17:38, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
* So for you, personally, your process for finding articles to improve, is just to click on random links to see whether there is a banner at the top of the page? WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:58, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
* No, it's when I'm reading and clicking through articles on topics I care about, which I imagine is not a process unique to me. Regardless, to be clear I'm not against some downsizing like you propose. Remsense 聊 19:16, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
* Thanks for explaining this. I largely stopped reading articles years ago, so I don't have the same process. (I assume you also improve articles that aren't tagged.) Within the articles I'm most likely to click on (e.g., to see whether the link I'm making will point to the right article), I usually find that the banners are uninformative or outdated. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:36, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Well, the proposal has stalled. I've made a small edit proposal about this in Advert to start making things moving again. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 13:15, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
RfC on Module:Find sources - replace New York Times with Associated Press
Currently, the only media outlet in Module:Find sources/templates/Find sources is the newspaper The New York Times (nytimes.com). Should we replace it with the news agency Associated Press (apnews.com)? Previous discussions here and here. starship .paint (RUN) 04:18, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
Survey (Find sources: NYT vs AP)
* Support as proposer on these three fronts. (1) Accessibility: The New York Times requires a paid subscription to read, the Associated Press does not. We should avoid paywalls for our editors and readers. (2) Content focus: The Associated Press is more internationally focused and operates in 94 countries, while the New York Times is more U.S.-focused and operates in around 30 countries. (3) Less biased: The Associated Press has been rated as less left leaning, and more neutral, than The New York Times by two media bias assessors - Media Bias Fact Check on NYT versus AP, AllSides on NYT versus AP. starship .paint (RUN) 04:20, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* I'd also like to add that I did not propose news agency Reuters as it requires registration, while news agency Agence France Presse doesn't seem to actually post news articles on its website? Or maybe it is here but you need a login? starship .paint (RUN) 04:28, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support per nom, with particular emphasis on (1). Directing editors to a source which requires a paid subscription after opening five(?) articles is just not best practice. In addition to making it more difficult for editors to find sources initially, it also has the potential knock-on effect of increasing the number of citations to the NYT in mainspace, citations which are more difficult to verify than those to free sources (this is a dumb concern and I'm dumb for saying it.) Associated Press is internationally regarded as – at minimum – a pretty good press agency. It should be more than adequate as a replacement suggestion in this module. The main downside I can think of is that Citoid works impeccably with the NYT, always correctly resolving authorship and publication date, only missing the subscription parameter. I don't remember if AP always works so consistently, although it might. Folly Mox (talk) 04:53, 9 September 2023 (UTC) edited 08:20, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oh no, now I remember that Citoid does correctly identify the important parameters from AP sources, but invariably chooses to render the work parameter in all caps, as "AP NEWS". Pretty trivial downside all things considered. Folly Mox (talk) 05:04, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Not at all opposed to just adding more sources, for clarity. Folly Mox (talk) 08:22, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Speaking of ALL CAPS, what's annoying about citiod and the NY Times is that it doesn't handle the historical NY Times style of ALL CAPS headlines. . It's annoying having to manually convert those into title case as required to pass a GA review (I can't actually find anyplace in the MOS which requires that, but reviewers seem to insist on it). RoySmith (talk) 21:24, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
* I also find Conde Nast publications pretty annoying because Nast, Conde always seems to be the byline. Valereee (talk) 16:28, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* Heh. I took a look at the HTML they generate:
* So, yeah, we're just believing what they tell us. RoySmith (talk) 16:47, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support AP, and other options as well. I think that the NYT, nothing against it as a reliable source, should not be considered the most reliable source and promoted the same way as it is. The NYT is nowhere near deprecation like the Daily Mail, but it should be treated as a source with a lean-left American bias. I personally think that the AP and Reuters are best, and for non-Qatari content, Al Jazeera should also be encouraged due to its general lack of bias on non-Qatari topics based on its ownership. Inclusion of the NYT should only be in concurrence with a counter-balancing reliable source, such as the Wall Street Journal. Invading Invader (userpage, talk) 04:57, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* I'd be happy to see apnews.com on the list, but why "replace"? Why not just "add"? WP:PAYWALLED sources are okay. I'd be happy to see half a dozen news sources. Maybe we need to add the BBC and The Globe and Mail, too. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:25, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Using paywalled sources is okay, but what we are doing here is recommending a paywalled source to everyone, which would surely cause inconvenience to non-subscribers as the paywall can prevent them from reading article text. Why make life harder in this way? starship .paint (RUN) 06:55, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* I don't think that convenience is the right way to measure news. First of all because it's not a primary factor when selecting verifiable sources, but also because convenience seems to be a placeholder for free. The first AP news article I opened was indeed without up-front cost, but has infinite tracker-laden Tablooa spam all over it; that is definitely not convenient from a privacy or bandwidth perspective. In practically all other areas of Wikipedia, sources are measured by the fundamental quality they bring to the encyclopedia, and I don't see why news should be treated differently. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 07:26, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose removal of the NYT -- as has been pointed out elsewhere on this page the NYT's factual reporting is neutral, and removing something because it has a paywall I think is a mistake -- we should recommend the best sources, not the most accessible ones. I'd be fine with adding other reliable sources, including the AP, as WhatamIdoing suggests. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 07:12, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* this is a distraction. no discussion supported "addition of nyt" https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module%3AFind_sources%2Ftemplates%2FFind_sources&diff=prev&oldid=722553515 . you first need to find support for "addition of nyt", before debating about its "removal". RZuo (talk) 09:35, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* @RZuo, -- and to be clear, this is not a comment on the proposal, just on this argument, which you've made several times -- it's not actually correct that there had to be some discussion supporting the addition before it was made. The addition was made in (2016? too lazy to check) and apparently created no controversy at the time. The fact it's remained this long, even with occasional discussions about removing it, is the evidence for consensus. You'd be better off dropping this argument and simply arguing merit rather than process. Valereee (talk) 11:41, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Consensus: "An edit has presumed consensus until it is disputed or reverted."
* Silence_and_consensus: "Consensus arising from silence evaporates when an editor changes existing content or objects to it."
* even if there ever were any implicit consensus, it has evaporated no later than 2018. RZuo (talk) 12:46, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* I'll answer at your talk, as this probably is becoming tangential. Valereee (talk) 12:49, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* @RZuo, I'm having a hard time interpreting this as meaning anything but that you don't actually want to discuss unless it's in a public forum? Trying really hard to AGF here...why did you delete that instead of responding? Would you prefer I explained it here, where it doesn't really add anything? I was trying to avoid distracting people from the question at hand. Valereee (talk) 18:48, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* I just wanted to comment, whether or not there is pre-existing consensus for somethings inclusion does not make an editors !vote to include it any less valid. Googleguy007 (talk) 14:44, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
* "...and removing something because it has a paywall I think is a mistake -- we should recommend the best sources, not the most accessible ones." I'm pretty sure no one has had this discussion with the small group of editors who have been allowed to WP:OWN the recent deaths lists. For years and years, I observed an obsession with replacing sources because of paywalls and "European access blocks", while at the same time observed no regard given to malicious links and links leading to geographically distant sources who regurgitate someone else's content in order to provide an additional venue for their array of clickbait ads. Sourcing in general throughout the encyclopedia leaves a lot to be desired. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 03:03, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose removal of NYT, support addition of AP - No special fondness for NYT, but in the areas I edit in, it's more useful than AP. I agree with the editors saying having a greater mix would be better. Red Fiona (talk) 14:14, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support - for the above reasons as articulated by starship.paint. The associated press I think it is fair to say, is a source moreso associated with worldwide NPOV viewpoints than the NYT. On pages like this sources like the AP are preferable as to avoid centering the US perspective. Wikipedia can and should be more than an American website Jack4576 (talk) 11:55, 9 September 2023 (UTC) {this is a copied comment}
* Note: I copied this over from my talk page because Jack4576 is blocked from Wikipedia-space pages like Village pump, but Jack4576 has said that he is not topic banned from Wikipedia-space. starship .paint (RUN) 14:48, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support removal of NYT because of the paywall, and therefore support addition of AP in its place. I could propose a scheme where ENWP would establish a floating account with the name of Nicholas Bourbaki to read NYT articles, but that would be too complicated and weird. We need our reliable source to be accessible, because most of us have the disability of not having paid the NYT. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:13, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose removal of the NYT for reasons described in the previous discussions and mentioned below. The NYT is an excellent, top tier source that is exactly the kind of thing that should be offered as a suggestion, including for non-American news. I have no opinion on the AP, but the decision should be whether to add the AP, not to replace the NYT with the AP. SnowFire (talk) 04:30, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support As I said previously, a choice is better but no real reason to prefer NYT (or the BBC) over a global news source.Selfstudier (talk) 14:14, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support as proposed, still, for the reasons listed in the nomination and that I gave in the last discussion. We don't need to clog talk pages with multiple listings in "Find sources", and AP is international, not paywalled, and neutral. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 22:15, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose as the NYT is a high quality source and has more in-depth coverage in some areas than the AP; though I do agree with the argument that it is too US-centric. I think we shouldn't favour one publication over all others though, so the most ideal option in my mind would be to add multiple sources or remove all sources and make the "WP refs" search (which retrieves results from plenty of newspapers including both NYT and AP) more prominent. ― <kbd style="font-size:85%"><b style="color:#270;rotate:-2deg;display:inline-block">novov</b> (t c) 07:55, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support Removal of NYT. Oppose adding of AP. I absolutely understand the frustration of New York Times paywalls. However, I don't think switching to another for-profit journalistic source is the solution. We can maybe also link to NPR, PBS, CBC, BBC, (Australia)BC, and other not for profit journalism that is more in line with our goals. Aasim - Herrscher of Wikis ❄️ 17:11, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
* Can you clarify "more in line with our goals"? A news source that is non-profit is not more in line with our goals as an encyclopedia than one with a reputation for high-quality journalism, even though it might align ideologically. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:18, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* I am not doubting that NYT is high quality journalism. But public broadcasters and several news sources are not incentivized by advertising in general. The removal of NY Times is less to do with its quality as it has to do with being able to ensure that Wikipedians are able to quickly access a good source for stuff like WP:V and WP:N. Aasim - Herrscher of Wikis ❄️ 13:25, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* I'm all for "information should be free", and would certainly support adding entries for other sources, but we would be shooting ourselves in the foot if we started down the road of deprecating sources behind paywalls just because they're behind paywalls. Full disclosure: I'm a paid NYT subscriber. RoySmith (talk) 13:48, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* I never said that NYT should be deprecated. Only that it should not be included in . If there is a way to access NYT through programs like WP:TWL then that is what should be linked. Aasim - Herrscher of Wikis ❄️ 14:13, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* Removing it from find sources is a step down that road. I agree it would be wonderful if the NYT were available through WP:TWL, but whether it is or not should not be a factor in how we treat it as a source. RoySmith (talk) 14:17, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* Maybe I misread the question, but I thought this was about for a minute, not the associated module. I think the only entries that should be listed there are those related to what the module is for - finding sources. Linking to one publisher in the module is not "find sources", it's "find source". In other words, I only think search engines querying a wide variety of databases and curated news reports across the world should be there. Google News and Bing News which in turn pull up articles from NYTimes and AP and other high (and low) quality sources will suffice enough. Aasim - Herrscher of Wikis ❄️ 14:33, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* That's a much more acceptable (to me) argument. RoySmith (talk) 14:52, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support removal of NYT. Oppose adding AP. I don't like the idea of promoting one or two specific media outlet(s) above others. Perhaps a set of several, but that's not really in scope for this RFC. —siroχo 17:46, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose addition of AP. The value of having nytimes.com comes from its archival nature. Searching there returns matches dating back to 1851. On apnews.com, on the other hand, I can't even find an article from earlier than 2021. It's pretty clear which is useful for a wider range of subjects. If regionality is a concern, replace it with Google Newspapers (I'm surprised it's not there). Nardog (talk) 07:37, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose removal of the New York Times, which is by far the best and most comprehensive US newspaper source. Most high quality journalistic sources are behind paywalls these days. I subscribe to several paywalled sources and limit my usage of others that restrict my access to X articles a month or whatever. But I will never support any limits on or any discouragement of other editors using paywalled sources. The Associated Press is great for routine coverage of breaking news and the like, but it is a news agency, not a newspaper. AP does not decide which of their content that actual newspapers run. Those decisions are made instead by actual living and breathing newspaper editors. The AP does not cover stories with anywhere near the depth or breadth that the New York Times does. Or the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, the Los Angeles Times, the San Francisco Chronicle and many others, or my little hometown paper, The Union, which has been published since 1864. It would be a terrible mistake to start down the path of deprecating sources behind paywalls. That is where the very best journalism can be found these days. The expectation that outstanding journalism can always be consumed for free is pernicious, and will lead to the death of independent journalism if followed to its logical end. Cullen328 (talk) 08:03, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
* +1! Donald Albury 14:46, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
* then why nyt? why not the union or wsj? RZuo (talk) 14:31, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
* Well, this proposal was to replace NYT with AP. Any other outcome will require a new RfC. Donald Albury 17:17, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
* for anyone who still hasnt read the discussion or understood the origin of this rfc: nyt was added without any consensus or discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module%3AFind_sources%2Ftemplates%2FFind_sources&diff=prev&oldid=722553515, so any user supporting using nyt should first explain why nyt should be chosen over any other sources.
* yet i could readily give 2 reasons why for example wsj is a better us newspaper than nyt. RZuo (talk) 07:24, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* RZuo, Valereee responded to this argument of yours, above and on your talk page, giving what I would consider good reasons for discounting your point. You've ignored their post above and silently deleted their post from your talk page. If you're going to continue making this argument I think it would be helpful if you explained why you disagree with their response. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:04, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* RZuo, I'm not sure it's fair to assume the edit was made with no discussion simply because no discussion was referenced in the edit summary. The editor who made that edit thinks there had been discussion. The fact no one has dug it out doesn't mean it doesn't exist. As I mentioned at your talk, we should at minimum assume good faith on that. This argument, which you have made over and over again, including after objections, is starting to feel like an intentional unsupported accusation of bad faith. Valereee (talk) 16:12, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* instead of busy lecturing other users, you two can answer the question at hand instead: why is nyt chosen over all other sources? RZuo (talk) 18:23, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* I've given my reasons for keeping the NYT in my !vote above; I have no objection to adding other sources. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:19, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* did you know whether you answered why nyt is chosen over all others? no?
* you merely said nyt is neutral.
* many more newspapers are neutral. many more are more neutral than nyt. RZuo (talk) 20:35, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* I don't know why it was chosen, but I assume it was because some 2016 discussion suggested it. I can't know because I haven't seen the original discussion which, as someone AGFing, I assume happened. It doesn't mean it was the best choice, it doesn't mean consensus hasn't changed since, and I'm completely open on the question.
* @RZuo, I am going to tell you: stop making unsupported accusations of bad faith. The fact this pisses you off does not mean you can accuse another editor of intentionally operating in bad faith without evidence. Valereee (talk) 19:31, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* @Valereee:
* you're making a claim without evidence. that's not what "assumption of good faith" means. you better stop.
* you're falsely accusing me of assumption of bad faith. you better stop. i've been asking a simple question, which any supporter of nyt can answer, regardless their awareness of a non-existent discussion you're handwaving to.
* RZuo (talk) 20:29, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* You've accused another editor of intentionally acting in bad faith. Your first intimation was here. You accused the other editor of editing without discussion or consensus, implying BOLD didn't exist or apply and that because there was no mention of a discussion in the edit summary, there was no discussion, even though the other editor said they thought there was discussion, here and here and here and here. I objected here and here. You ignored/deleted my attempts to discuss.
* I literally have no opinion on this question. Please explain what you mean by "handwaving to", as I am not sure what you're saying. Valereee (talk) 21:49, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose removal of the NY Times. It has a comprehensive archive and most stories contain an attributed author. Not opposed to adding additional sources. --Enos733 (talk) 21:06, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose Absolutely not. The NYT is, in my view, the single most high-quality respected news publication in the Western world of all time. InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:43, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* This a bit of an WP:ILIKEIT argument, and one underpinned by a healthy dose of Americo-centrism. Tomorrow and tomorrow (talk) 05:47, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
* Support defaulting to a global source focused on factual reporting improves Wikipedia's neutrality. – Teratix ₵ 00:44, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose removal, but support addition. In general, I would have multiple newspapers listed, rather than just one. Google has been getting shittier and not pulling up everything. AP, WaPo, AFP, Reuters, etc. would all be useful, in addition to the NYT. The NYT is still a very reliable source for information, globally. SWinxy (talk) 04:13, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
* I have a love-hate relationship with Google search. On the one hand, they're the most comprehensive compendium of what's available on the internet; any search for sources which didn't include Google in some way is clearly defective. On the other hand, I hate how much information Google collects about their users, and from a more practical point of view, the results they give are biased by your previous browsing (and other application use) history. I use Duck-Duck-Go as my everyday search engine, but I still do Google searches as needed to ensure complete coverage.
* As for WaPo, I think they're a great news source. I maintain paid subscriptions to both NYT and WaPo. On the other hand, I recognize that those two papers overlap in both their US-centric coverage (obviously they have great international coverage, but overall, US-centric) and in their political biases (i.e. liberal-leaning). I would like to see more news outlets listed, but we should make an effort to cover both the political spectrum and geographic diversity. Surely we can satisfy that without compromising on journalistic excellence. RoySmith (talk) 14:54, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose on all points. The Wikipedia Library represents WMF recognition that the highest-quality reliable sources often exist behind paywalls. Google News is linked for those who can only afford free sources, allowing for focus on the NYTimes' comprehensive reporting and archives stretching to 1851 at a cost of $4/month. As for international coverage, counting national bureaus is hardly indicative of the breadth of reporting. For example, neither news organization maintains a permanent office in Vanuatu, but only the NYTimes website offers pre-2021 coverage and has far more long-form reporting on the island nation. Lastly, Media Bias Fact Check and AllSides are not objective determinations of media bias. One can argue that the NYTimes' in-depth coverage necessitates fact-finding that exposes it to further claims of bias. BluePenguin18 🐧 ( 💬 ) 23:49, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support adding AP on the basis that it's less USA-centric: on many articles where it's included, this template is useless because there's nothing useful to be found. Paywall status is relevant but I'm not sure it's dispositive here: AP will probably become paywalled like Reuters at some point, and NYT is very easy to access for free on any privacy-conscious browser or through the Internet Archive. I'm also ok with outright removing the NYT or replacing it with some of the other sources mentioned like The Guardian, for reasons given by others above. Nemo 16:03, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support removing NYT and adding AP. Though they are equivalent in quality and bias, AP is easier to access (no paywall) and more international than NYT. Levivich (talk) 16:36, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support: AP is easier to access, more international and less biased. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 07:47, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose removal Proposer's rationale for removal are unconvincing, including false claim about "left-leaning" factual reporting, as opposed to editorial stance. Other sources can be added to address other of OP's concerns, e.g. Reuters, NPR, BBC, AP...<b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 19:19, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support removal (from Template:Find sources, Template:Find general sources, and similar). This is not a free-floating debate about how good of a source the New York Times is. This is about what gets included in templates plastered indiscriminately across AfCs, AfDs, talk page headers, etc. There should be as little as possible; less is more. What gets included should be of exceptionally broad and global applicability, and (like a point made by Aasim above) should consist only of tools to actually "find sources" and not any particular source or publisher. Adumbrativus (talk) 10:38, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
* Support - Never paid for paywalled stuff and never would when there's free alternatives out there, I do agree with Cullens point 99% of those alternatives won't be as good as NYT but I also don't believe it's useful to anyone linking to paywalled articles when like I say there's free alternatives out there. I would also support BBC over AP but that's just me personally. – Davey 2010 Talk 11:00, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
* Nothing under discussion requires use of a paywalled site.<b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 19:28, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support - no point leading readers to a site that the VAST majority cant view. Our goal should be to guide readers to a place that will be accessible for the research the template is intended for. Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 19:22, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose. The New York Times has an enviable world-level reputation for fair and accurate reporting. We should always make every effort to use the very best sources available to us, and this is surely one of them. There's no paywall, just a minor (but rather aggravating) pay-obstacle – if you can't read a particular article online, all you need to do is go to the public library and read it there. The walk will probably do you good. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:49, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
* Kind of a privileged, first-world take. Not everyone has a public library at all, or in walking distance, or can walk, and not every public library subscribes to NYT. Levivich (talk) 20:56, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
* That's a reason to provide other sources that are more universally accessible, certainly. I don't see it as a reason to remove a high-quality source that many editors can indeed access. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:18, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose False dichotomy, just add both. Curbon7 (talk) 21:40, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support People here might be surprised that Americans who are left of center consider the NYT to be part of the corporate media which sucks up to the PTB. Despite having Paul Klugman on its staff. (And by "left of center" I mean individuals who are far more moderate than members of the Party for Socialism and Liberation. More accurately labeled progressive Democrats.) A chronic problem of the US mainstream press is this baffling need to "present a balanced view", which always means giving more attention to conservative POVs, & the NYT is as guilty of this as practically every other US publication. -- llywrch (talk) 23:48, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* Support adding AP Oppose removing NYT No need for this to be NYT vs. AP. An excellent pair. Perhaps add paywall as a parenthetical for NYT. O3000, Ret. (talk) 18:31, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose removal of NYT, support addition of AP--Lukewarmbeer (talk) 11:41, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose removal of NYT, support addition of AP--Lukewarmbeer (talk) 11:41, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
Discussion (Find sources: NYT vs AP)
* - notified from past discussion. starship .paint (RUN) 04:24, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* - notified from above discussion. starship .paint (RUN) 04:33, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Are these the right metrics? Without expressing a preference for any of the choices, I'm not sure the metrics given above are what we should be prioritizing. First being paywall; we should strive for the most neutral and accurate sources, not the most free-as-in-beer. Unlike media (such as images or sound), for which we prefer freely-licensed content as we host and display that content directly, news sources should be the most accurate available, as it is in many other areas in Wikipedia that are not news-oriented. Next is international coverage— the "countries operated in" statement is not quite accurate. For example, NYT has actively staffed bureaux in many countries but that's more of a logistics matter; they will send reporters to any country in the world as needed and permitted. And I found at least three different figures in different areas of the AP site so I'm not sure what is going on there. Finally, I fear that a lot of this is moot because many news organizations' public-facing search capabilities are often terrible. As a test, I took the first linked term in today's WP:ITN (Tharman Shanmugaratnam) and tried it with both the AP and NYT search. The AP search returned nothing and the NYT search returned a lot of things, yet notably none of them relevant to the ITN item in question. Are we focusing on the right issues here? Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 05:59, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* https://www.reuters.com/site-search/?query=Tharman+Shanmugaratnam
* https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=Tharman+Shanmugaratnam RZuo (talk) 06:23, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Some premises are wrong here and strongly suggest that interested editors read the previous discussions. In particular, the claim that the NYT is "left-leaning" is misleading. It is well-known that the NYT's editorial section is mostly left-leaning (although, interestingly enough, they've gotten heat from the left in the past year as well - see this article for example). However, "find sources" is about the news stories as editorials should only be referenced rarely, so the claim that this is addressing some left-wing bias is weak. (The same is true in reverse of the Wall Street Journal.) The larger concern is accuracy - the NYT is handy for having fairly deep coverage of many topics, and from the sources cited on bias as pointed out by Mathglot in the previous discussion:
* They are considered one of the most reliable sources for news information due to proper sourcing and well-respected journalists/editors.
* If the NYT were a "conservative" outlet in its editorial page but still had lines like that, then they'd still be fine to use. Maybe we can add AP stories but NYT is a good start and not in any way "problematic." SnowFire (talk) 06:09, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* I'd second the comment about the strict wall that most U.S. newspapers follow in separating hard news (reporters' own personal opinions, or lack of opinion, disregarded so long as they report all sides fairly) from opinion-editorial and both of them from the business side (advertising and circulation).
* A good counter-example is The Wall Street Journal, whose conservative opinion-editorial bent is if anything sharper than the Times' left-liberal one. Nonetheless, liberal and left-wing Americans constantly cite the Journal both for important economic and corporate facts, and for the enterprising original investigations that its reporters (of any persuasion or none) undertake. The American socialist leader Michael Harrington told young socialists fifty years ago that they should read the Journal regularly, and a very bohemian friend of mine pointed out that the business press (cf. The Financial Times) can't let politics or ideology interfere with the hard facts that their readers need to make sound corporate, financial and investment decisions. However both The WSJ and The FT have rigid paywalls that are, if anything, higher than the NYT's. —— Shakescene (talk) 14:22, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Actually, who is the target audience here? When was the last time anyone in this discussion ever had Module:Find sources appear in the course of normal editing, then clicked on a link in it to find sources? I feel like most of us probably have our methods already, and will do the same kinds of searches at the same places for similar kinds of information.I fielded a question at one of the helpdesks the other day, where a user was trying to get information about some 19th century book. I pointed them at Internet Archive, google scholar, Jstor, and told them to check their school library resources, like they had zero idea where to start since we didn't have an article specifically about this one book. I kinda get the impression that this find sources template has a similar purpose, and I think for this use case, finding easier sources does make a difference, even if for a more experienced user going through a quality assessment process, it absolutely doesn't.It may in fact be the case that NYT has more information readily available via search than AP does per Orange Suede Sofa's comment. That's a pretty strong argument against this particular swap. Higher quality sources are always going to be ceteris paribus more important than easy sources. I just don't think for the people this template most benefits, that all other things are equal.I'm never going to argue that ease of access or ease of verification are the most important things about a source. My own topic area of concentration, Early China, is woefully outdated and often doesn't reflect modern scholarly consensus, because so much of the sourcing is from centuries-old classics that have been digitised and are freely available multiple places. It sucks. But if someone hit me up with no idea where even to start, I'd probably still point them at things I know they'll have access to at home for free with no special accounts anywhere. It's a better starting point than asking if someone can afford a subscription or a particular book. Folly Mox (talk) 08:15, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
* Comment I am concerned that we not set a precedent that accessibility is more important than reliability in ranking sources. For many topics, the best sources are on paper, or, if available on-line, are behind paywalls. I understand that many editors are at a disadvantage over access to such sources, but I think we still need to recommend the best sources first. Freely-accessible sources are fine, it they reliably support the content they are cited for, but they should not be a permanent substitute for better sources that may be behind paywalls or only available on paper. - Donald Albury 13:46, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
* Absolutely right. This is the most important comment that anyone has made here. MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:06, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
* I agree though there should be a preference for sources not behind paywalls be it subscriptions to news outlets or academic journals. UnironicEditor (talk) 07:27, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
* For most topics, the emphasis in sourcing should be on scholarly sources rather than breaking news. Both NYT and AP are not ideal sources for an encyclopedia simply because they are news sources and may not reflect scholarly consensus on a particular topic. Their only notable advantage is being more up to date, thus being citable for current events. (t · c) buidhe 15:37, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
* https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/23/pageoneplus/editors-note-gaza-hospital-coverage.html
* so much for "NYT's factual reporting is neutral", "by far the best and most comprehensive US newspaper source", "enviable world-level reputation for fair and accurate reporting"... lmao.--RZuo (talk) 20:27, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
Implementation
* did you add AP to the module as per the consensus you determined?--RZuo (talk) 10:01, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* , I did not, no. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:37, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* can you please edit the module(s)?--RZuo (talk) 08:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* I generally don't make edits related to RFCs I've closed due to WP:INVOLVED concerns. As Val suggests below, you should make an edit request at the module talk page linking to the RFC result. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:03, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* that's some weird way your group of users work in. RZuo (talk) 14:57, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* It needs a template editor or an admin familiar with editing modules. I wouldn't go near it myself. RZuo, you could make an edit request at the appropriate talk and reference the closing. Valereee (talk) 15:04, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Visibility of edit changes in mobile
When editing on my Android phone, I do not see a Changes page or display, only a Preview of rendered edit. Does functionality exist to show Changes, or can it be added? Haven't found discussion of this issue. DonFB (talk) 21:22, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* , your question isn't really a proposal. It's probably better asked at the Village Pump for technical matters. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:47, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* I was thinking of it as a proposal to add the function, but hedged my comment, because I'm not certain it does not exist. But I can ask there also. DonFB (talk) 23:52, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* It looks like the Mobile visual editor has this option, but I don't see it in the mobile wikitext editor. You don't need a community consensus to ask the Editing team to improve the editing tools; they'll do the research when/if it fits in with any of their assigned projects. You can reach them through @Trizek (WMF) or leave a note at their page on MediaWiki.org. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:28, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* @DonFB, are you editing on the Android App, or do you edit using the mobile website (in your browser)? Trizek_(WMF) (talk) 14:06, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* I don't use app; am using the mobile website. Is the app a Playstore thing or available from Wikimedia? DonFB (talk) 19:25, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Purge Block Logs after X years
While I think utilizing a block log is beneficial, people change and just like in the regular world, there should be a purge after a certain number of years. I think 5-10+ years is a good enough number to start the discussion with. Sir Joseph (talk) 17:56, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
* How about 10 years, or twice the duration from the first block to the most recent block (including blocks of socks), whichever is longer. Jc3s5h (talk) 20:41, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
* So if a person got blocked once, then in 10 years, it could be hidden, but if they were blocked twice, removing the oldest would require 10 years plus no blocks in the most recent five years? Or:
* Given a 2010 block and a 2014 block, with none since: First block hidden in 2020, second block hidden in 2024 (10 years).
* Given a 2010 block and a 2019 block, with none since: Everything remains visible (until at least 2028 [twice the duration between the first block and the most recent block]).
* WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:32, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
* Sir Joseph, are you talking about purging just logs or also the blocks themselves?<br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"/>No unblock request will ever succeed again after a purge because everyone will simply assume the worst.<span id="Alexis_Jazz:1700253938220:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:45, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
* The real problem is that people read too much into block logs. Or, more to the point, people read too much into their own block logs. My RfA carried no small amount of controversy, and yet no one had concerns about my indefinite block in 2012. The block log is an objective record of that incident, of the fact that for 3 hours an admin thought the project was better off without me. What point is served by hiding that? I don't think it would really change anyone's opinion of me—hopefully, after 10 years, they associate me more with something other than that block. This just seems like caving in to people's anxieties that a past block defines them. The better response is to tell people that they're judged much more by their reputation now than their reputation 10 years ago, both for better and for worse. -- Tamzin [<i style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</i>] (they|xe|she) 20:52, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
* It's good for editors to see that admins are human, reputations are reparable, and old blocks may not even block one from becoming an admin. O3000, Ret. (talk) 21:11, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* Absolutely not. We shouldn't read too much into people's old blocks, but purging has many bad side effects. For example, if somebody has been blocked repeatedly, deleting the early blocks makes it more difficult to understand the later blocks. We also don't want people to let one of their accounts lay dormant for five years after receiving a block, just to wait out the log. —Kusma (talk) 21:10, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
* No thank you, this is an important part of administrator transparency. We should not hide actions taken by administrators just because some time has passed. — xaosflux Talk 21:24, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
* Sorry? You're proposing we reduce transparency? Edward-Woodrow (talk) 13:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
* Strong Oppose per the above. Good faith proposal, but this is just a bad idea. Transparency is extremely important, especially where admin actions are involved. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:12, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* Absolutely strong oppose. Logs are logs. They should not go down the memory hole after some specified period; they are meant to show what happened. In my experience, people are very rarely concerned with very old block log entries; I've got one in mine from 2006 and no one considers it in any way significant any more. But it is still a part of both my history and that admin's history on the project, so it should be retained. We should no more purge "old" block logs than we should purge "old" edit histories. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:16, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* Seraphimblade, note that old edit histories can't be purged for legal reasons. They're needed for the "attribution" part in Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike.<span id="Alexis_Jazz:1700435422787:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:10, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* I'm well aware of that. But even if it weren't for that, I would be firmly against any redaction or purging of public logs, be they edit histories, admin actions, or whatever else have you. The whole idea is that anyone can see what happened, be that twenty minutes or twenty years from when it was done. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:43, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* I can see some merit in this idea. There are times that I've blocked good editors which was necessary at the time but it seems a shame that people will draw conclusions from that block even many years after the issue was resolved. <b style="color: teal; font-family: Tahoma">HJ Mitchell</b> | <span style="color: navy; font-family: Times New Roman" title="(Talk page)">Penny for your thoughts? 21:21, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* I think the problem is real, but this is not the right solution. Tamzin's block log (or mine) isn't really a great example, because the unblock reason is pretty clear. What about those 24-hour edit warring blocks that just expire without explanation? Or the really immature editors who get blocked a half dozen times (for good reason), then finally grow up? A block log like that can leave you perpetually more likely to get blocked, or reported to ANI, in the future. "Oh, previously blocked twice for sockpuppetry? No need to check with CU if that's a joe-job, obviously they're just up their old habits..." or "Oh, five edit warring blocks? Yeah, this time they weren't quite at 3RR and maybe there's kinda sorta a BLP exception, but obviously this is a troublemaker...", and so on. Maybe, instead, just make the old blocks a little harder to find. That is, one extra click, each time, on a "show blocks older than X years" checkbox. The act of clicking will hopefully force you to slow down and think "these blocks are old, maybe this person has changed". Or maybe, just color the old blocks differently. As in, slightly faded (but still barely WCAG compliant) text. Again, this will just slow you down, and make you notice the date. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 21:45, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* I would support this. Divide the subject into "Recent blocks" (perhaps within the last five years), with a click to get to "Older blocks", which appears only if there are older blocks. BD2412 T 22:00, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* +1. There are times that we need to review an editor's block log, for example there could be a years-long pattern of behaviour, but forcing people into an extra click or showing logs in a different colour might make people pause before they go dredging up ancient history. <b style="color: teal; font-family: Tahoma">HJ Mitchell</b> | <span style="color: navy; font-family: Times New Roman" title="(Talk page)">Penny for your thoughts? 22:08, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* That idea, I could get behind. The logs should certainly not be purged entirely, but an extra step to view them which also emphasizes "These happened long ago" does not violate that and could very much work. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:41, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* I like this idea. Would suggest the click over the different color, you can't fade it enough while remaining WCAG compliant.<span id="Alexis_Jazz:1700436907496:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(proposals)" class="FTTCmt"> — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:35, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose - yes people change, but thats also demonstrated by a block log showing no blocks in ten years. I dont see the gain here, and I say that as somebody who would see all of their past indiscretions hidden away by this proposal. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy - 23:23, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* Support For as long period like 10 years (not 5 years). People will inevitably read too much into them, including not factoring in for age. And something 10 years old is not relevant for any purpose for looking at a block log. <b style="color: #0000cc;">North8000</b> (talk) 23:31, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* @North8000 for your 10 years, when would you start counting? — xaosflux Talk 23:40, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* I'd go 10 years before the present date. <b style="color: #0000cc;">North8000</b> (talk) 02:01, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* @North8000 so for example here is a block log entry, it is more than 10 years old, it is still currently active - are you proposing we should purge this, leaving the user blocked with no explanation? Special:Redirect/logid/445581. — xaosflux Talk 20:03, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* I hadn't thought about 10 year old still-active blocks. And the large amount of dead accounts (socks etc.) covered by that. So I'd need to change my recommendation to 8 (or 10) years after the block ended. <b style="color: #0000cc;">North8000</b> (talk) 20:23, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* (ec) Surely it would have to be X years after the block ends? It makes no sense to purge a 10-year block which ended yesterday but not a 31-hour block which started and ended nine years ago. But I still don't support any of this anyway. Certes (talk) 20:26, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* Does this take WP:DENY into account? Is hiding old blocks from non-sysops an (feasible) option in that case, then? FMecha (to talk|to see log) 04:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* Oppose, unless this were more comprehensive, like voiding/suppressing topic bans, interaction bans, and other editing restrictions after a decade or whatever, too, not just blocks. We have no interest in hiding the fact that someone was so disruptive they got a long block, but memorializing forever that they were less disruptive and just got a T-ban or other lesser restriction. Even then I might still oppose, since I'm not sure this is ultimately in the best interests of the community as a whole, even if it would be nicer/fairer to various particular invididuals who have matured as editors. It would give a green light to too many who have not. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 07:57, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* That's a good point. We shouldn't be tricked into assessing someone with visible minor sanctions as more disruptive than someone with hidden blocks. Let's leave it to the reader to decide whether a 10-year-old block is relevant. It may be for some purposes but not for others. Certes (talk) 10:03, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* In response to the idea of "hiding" old blocks from the logs, I would oppose anything that makes links to old blocks no longer work or require extra clicks. I could be persuaded to have a new "recent blocks" thing that is prominently displayed from the contributions page instead of the full block log, but the logs should be fully and easily accessible to those who want to see them. —Kusma (talk) 11:45, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* Personally I think this is more of an issue with our culture. We expect that a good user to do everything perfect and we tend to forget that failing is also a way for us to learn to be better in the future. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 11:46, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Autoprotect recent deaths on the Main Page
From what I have seen, they are usually easy vandalism targets, and semi-protecting them similarly to TFAs until they automatically get pushed off would prevent this. Drowssap SMM ( talk ) (contributions) 12:57, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* Compared to TFAs, these are much more likely to benefit from additional non-vandal edits. We should keep them open for editing as much as possible. —Kusma (talk) 13:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* Strong Oppose not only per Kusma's reasoning but also on principle. We should not WP:PREEMPTIVEly protect pages. We are the encyclopedia anyone can edit and we should keep as close to that as possible. Edward-Woodrow (talk) 20:44, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
* Withdraw proposal. After reading these responses, I have concluded that this is definitely an idea of the bad variety. I did not know about WP:PREEMPTIVE, so thank you for bringing that page to my attention. Drowssap SMM ( talk ) (contributions) 01:24, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
Page moving sandbox
This page moving sandbox would be a sandbox where, mainly new, but maybe from time to time, an experienced editor, would practice their page moving. There would be a few ground rules, such as the two below:
* 1) The page it is moved to must stay in the Wikipedia: namespace.
* 2) The page it is moved to must not be inappropriate or offensive.
To reset this sandbox, a user would move the page back to "Wikipedia:Page moving sandbox" or whatever this page is named. Opinions, comments, questions, anyone? ThatOneWolf (talk 00:41, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
* @ThatOneWolf this would likely end up breaking and causing admin work; if someone wants to test how to move a page they can move their own user sandbox to another name (e.g. User:ThatOneWolf/sandbox/test to User:ThatOneWolf/sandbox/test2). — xaosflux Talk 01:21, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
* Yes, I guess I didn't really think about that. I'm always thinking about external wikis, and one of them only needs autoconfirmed status to suppress redirects. That's not the case here, and an admin would have to delete the redirects to reset. Totally forgot that. ThatOneWolf (talk 03:31, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
RFC - infobox on Fred Sullivan
There's an ongoing discussion about adding an infobox on the article of Fred Sullivan. All feedback is welcome. Thanks! Nemov (talk) 21:35, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
* @Nemov How is this RfC a suitable topic here? Is it more important than any other? Doug Weller talk 08:24, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
* Requests for comment suggests notes like this at a village pump "if relevant", and we generally give editors pretty wide latitude to decide what counts as relevant. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:59, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
More barnstars for WikiLove
Hello, I am proposing the following barnstars be integrated towards WikiLove throughout Wikipedia:
* @Jerium, I like these. I wonder if that last one could have a new name, though. IPs aren't anonymous, and people who encourage them to register aren't "anti" them. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:56, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
* Yeah, I like them. Like said, they are very nice additions, if you change the last one. ThatOneWolf (talk 21:59, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
* I based the title, partial on the criteria, and design on Template:user anti-anon. I'm fine with changing the title, someone just come up with one. Jerium (talk) 22:05, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
* Maybe something like Recruiter Barnstar? Or, we could do something like IP account suggester. Maybe one of those? ThatOneWolf (talk 22:16, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
* @ThatOneWolf, "recruiter" seems to have the right tone. Schazjmd (talk) 22:18, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
* IMO, I do like "Recruiter Barnstar" better than the other one. ThatOneWolf (talk 22:19, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
* I also like the "Recruiter" idea. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:46, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
* Done I've gone and moved the template to "The Recruiter Barnstar", but how do these get added on the WikiLove throughout Wikipedia for everyone to use? Jerium (talk) 19:11, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
* @Jerium, it looks like the request would need to be made at MediaWiki talk:WikiLove.js. However, looking at previous requests on its talk page, they suggest getting consensus at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wikipedia Awards first. Schazjmd (talk) 19:40, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
* It makes no sense getting consensus from there, when I am WP:WPWPA. I am the current lead for making new barnstars and remastering older ones to meet WP:B2G (see barnstars made) once Antonu stopped editing. Jerium (talk) 19:55, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
* The names of both of these are problematic. The first implies a contest or review process by the community to select a single person as "most improved", but that's not what it is (and we wouldn't want such a process). Might be better as "Greatly Improved Editor" or something. The second is even more obviously wrongheaded, in setting itself up as opposition to anonymous editors. This should probably be more like "Registration Helper Barnstar". And the text in in it wonky as well. "Unregistered" (i.e. anon IP) users are still part of the Wikipedia community, just less integrated into it. Maybe somethign like "encouraged or assisted unregistered users to more fully join the Wikipedia community by creating accounts". — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 20:49, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
* The Anti-anon was changed to the “ Recruiter Barnstar” already, and I like “Greatly Improved Editor Barnstar “. Jerium (talk) 21:30, 23 November 2023 (UTC) | WIKI |
Dutch Zwilling
Edward Harrison "Dutch" Zwilling (November 2, 1888 – March 27, 1978) was an American professional baseball player. He played in Major League Baseball (MLB) as an outfielder for four seasons. He first played for the Chicago White Sox of the American League in 1910, then for the Chicago Whales of the Federal League from 1914 to 1915, and lastly, the Chicago Cubs of the National League in 1916. He, along with Lave Cross, Willie Keeler, and Rollie Zeider, are the only players to have played for at least three different teams in the same city. Zwilling was the last surviving member of the 1915 Chicago Whales, the last champion of the Federal League.
Alphabetically, Zwilling was listed last among all MLB players in history, until Tony Zych made his MLB debut in 2015.
His most significant playing-time occurred while in the FL, and is the short-lived league's all-time leader in home runs with 29.
In 366 games over four seasons, Zwilling posted a .284 batting average (364-for-1280) with 167 runs, 30 home runs and 202 RBIs. He finished his major league career with a .969 fielding percentage as a centerfielder. | WIKI |
Ahad al Masarihah
Ahad al Masarihah is a governorate in Jizan Province, in south-western Saudi Arabia, bordering Yemen
The governorate of Ahad al Msarihah is one of the governorates of the Jizan region, with villages and hamlets. There's a local market known as the Sunday Market with a carpentry area. It has grassland on the banks of the Khlab Valley in the form of a circular belt along Prince Muhammad Bin Nasser Ring Road.
Archaeological site
A notable archaeological site in the governorate is the city of Al-Khasouf. The historian Al-Hamdani mentioned it in his book The Characteristics of the Arabian Peninsula in four places. He said,"The width of the khasuf is a city of hakam, like the width of [the] sadah and its length from the east is one hundred nineteen degrees."
Population
The population of Ahad al Masarhah was noted as 110,710 on a census taken in 2010. | WIKI |
Democrats 'play defense' against Wall Street deregulation: Sherrod Brown
CNBC's John Harwood on Friday talked with Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, who is up for re-election on Nov. 6. Here, they discuss regulating Wall Street. Subscribe to John Harwood's Speakeasy podcast on iTunes They forgot that it was Wall Street greed and overreach that cost hundreds of billions of dollars in retirement savings, cost millions of jobs, caused millions of foreclosures. And now, Wall Street comes knocking again. They want to deregulate this administration's appointees to a number of federal regulatory agencies, want to deregulate foreign banks in the United States. They want to weaken capital requirements on Wall Street. They want to weaken the consumer protection bureau. The animal spirits of Wall Street will always mean bankers want to take more risk. I don't blame them. They're acting in maybe their stockholders' best interest – not their communities', but their stockholders' best interest. You need regulators to say no. You need regulators, 120 miles from here on Lake Erie, to make sure people don't dump stuff in Lake Erie. You need regulators to make sure banks don't take too much risk. This park is named after a midsized bank, Huntington Bank. They are a good bank. They do things right the great majority of the time. They're a great small business lender. I'm way less concerned about their overreach than I am the banks that are literally 10 times their size – in some cases, 15 times their size. | NEWS-MULTISOURCE |
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